Rove heckled.
By on Jul 12th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Rove heckled.
In an address to the National Council of La Raza’s annual conference yesterday, Karl Rove “drew scattered boos when he highlighted Bush’s recent approval of $1.9 billion in funding for more border security, including deployment of National Guard troops, and was disrupted twice by hecklers who unfurled antiwar and anti-Bush banners.”
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Sweet…
July 12th, 2006 at 11:01 amSorry folks but heckling’s not the way to advance rational discourse. I don’t like Rove any more than the rest of you, but this is a pretty minor event and doesn’t mean much.
What I’m curious to know is if he gets boos because he’s Rove or because the president’s immigration policy is fairly unpopular.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:03 amThe demonstrators should be granted immediate citizenship. We need more citizens as perceptive as those people.
Click on Clyde to Bash on Bush!
July 12th, 2006 at 11:04 am#2, I think he got booed b/c they dislike Bush. From the LAT: “Speaking after Rove, New Mexico’s Democratic Gov. Bill Richardson outlined his own immigration plan — which was strikingly similar to Bush’s. Unlike Rove, however, he was not booed when he promoted tougher border security to crack down not only on illegal immigrants, he said, but also on drugs and violence.”
July 12th, 2006 at 11:05 am#2 DrSinker
Under normal circumstances I would agree, however, “rationale discourse” and the Bushco are oxymorons and are mutually exclusive With emphasis on the “moron” part.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:08 am#2, the point of heckling is not rational discourse. The purpose is protest, and it’s as old as the hills.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:09 amRove can be booed daily until he dies, but it won’t make any difference - he should be in jail - and that day is not coming - there is no justice today - administration criminals are allowed to continue destroying America - congress continues to be inert - BushCo continue to appoint judges and other legal authorities who will support their illegal activities.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:11 amDrSinker
I agree with you that heckling is rude, but I am not so sure it isn’t a good thing. A lack of it can generate a sense of false consensus. This can generate a wider and wider arc of people who believe that because everyone believes it, so must they. In essence, it appeals to the sheep.
This was on of Hitler’s old tricks, and why we view Bush’s free speech zones with such suspicion. That Rove got heckled dispells some of that illusion of unity that the Republicans have been trying so hard to build up.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:15 amI say we start by booing these people, then one day, a shining and golden day, maybe they’ll be in jail.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:21 amSomeone should ask Rove at one of these rallies when his son will sign up for the Army and confirm what he and Bush has often stated, that since this country is supposed to be at war, the citizens of this country need to sacrifice. Rove can help do his part by urging that his son sacrifice by putting on a military uniform, preferablfy one from the Army, and head out to a combat zone in Iraq.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:28 amHeckling and booing is so cute. It’s so ineffective it’s not even funny.
It’s like walk-outs, picket lines and marches - they all harken nostalgically back to the 60’s when such activites were relatively novel and effective.
Now they are old hat and their effect has been minimized. When you have a march every other day, who really pays attention?
A wonderful (partial on-topic) excerpt from Shelby Steele’s White Guilt:
July 12th, 2006 at 11:33 amThe man deserves far worse than heckles. As long as he is power (as the man behind the current) America is danger. He is a danger to the very creed of liberty! By any means necessary!
July 12th, 2006 at 11:37 amChase
Is there honestly any real difference between a liberal heckler at a Republican event, and a conservative troll on a liberal board? Heckling is nothing new, it wasn’t a shocking new act back in the 60’s, hell it wasn’t new back in the 1660’s.
You want to minimise the effect of protest, yet you miss what protest actually is about. It isn’t about winning concessions any more, it isn’t about winning converts, its about showing that not everyone agrees with what is happening.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:45 am#2, the point of heckling is not rational discourse. The purpose is protest, and it’s as old as the hills.
I have nothing against protests, I just don’t view heckling as the only form of protest that’s effective. Hold signs up, fine. Stand up and turn your back to the speaker, fine. Sometimes these kind of things can leave much more of an impression.
I realize many people here feel Rove deserves the worst treatment around because he’s scum. I say, show that we’re better than that. Be creative, but tasteful.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:46 amWTF is Rove doing addressing La Raza? WTF is La Raza doing inviting him?
Cheers,
July 12th, 2006 at 11:48 amRelpy to #2, he gets boos because he outed an CIA agent, he policies that are all bad for america. He should be heard!!!
July 12th, 2006 at 11:49 amwe need more illegal aliens in this country. how else we gonna win an election
July 12th, 2006 at 11:52 am#13 - “its about showing that not everyone agrees with what is happening.”
Isn’t there a more effective way to do this? Is being disrespectful at a public appearance the best way to show disagreement with policy? Has anyone at a public speech, when faced with hecklers ever said “you know what? you guys are right, what your banner says might be true. i’m gonna look into it”? nope.
I don’t doubt it happens when Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc speaks but I have a feeling it’s no where near as often.
Yes, yes there is. Boards are a forum for discussion. “Trolls” who come in and say stuff like “LIBRULS ARE GAY” OR “BUSH ROX” (those are good, huh?) while a little disruptive, can be scrolled past. Hecklers at an event mean the speaker must stop, and the heckler must be removed. The disruption is much greater.
So there a real difference.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:57 amHeckel first, then arrest and send to gitmo…..Better yet rent some buses and arrest them all…..If we can’t impeach these lieing, thieving, basterds can we recall them all..The left, riech and center is so corrupt theres barely enough to vote for in the up coming election…..Note, Cantwell is already blasting T.V. add’s in Washington and the guy that was anti war and running against her has now joined her team. Shit…Is there any one to vote for in Washington State..? War, what’s it good for.? Reducing the population and lining the pockets of the already rich…….Blessings, we need them..
July 12th, 2006 at 11:59 amI think it’s all in how it’s reported.
If the news reports say, “Rove was heckled.” It has no positive effect.
When it reads, “At one point protesters interrupted the speech by shouting slogans drawing attention to the problem of poverty.”
Effective.
Muy effective.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:02 pmChase
Have you ever watched some of the old propaganda reels from the Nazi’s? How they kept huge masses of supporters around all cheering and waving? Heck, try some of the KKK stuff. False consensus is a powerful tool, and silence has always had a nasty habit of sounding like agreement with what is happening.
Sadly, heckling is one of the more powerful tools of anybody wanting to show opposition, it forces people to take notice that somebody does indeed disagree with the speaker. If these hecklers were chucked out of the venue, they deserved it, but they weren’t exactly wasting their time.
Its the same with someone trolling on a liberal board. It is to disrupt that sense of majority, and to some extent it works.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:06 pmyou should just call customs to come pickem up. save the renting buses cash to bail jefferson out of the pokey
July 12th, 2006 at 12:06 pmKarl Rove, like Dick Cheney and Donald H. Rumsfeld (is there a regular - no H. Rumsfeld?), has the potential to haunt us for the rest of our lives. Cheney and Rums were burying Vietman atrocitiy investigations back in the 70’s and have perpetuated more of the same with the Debacle in Iraqle. If heckling / holding these guys to account isn’t the answer, what is? They have NO LEGITIMACY and acting like they do i.e. holdING to the normal codes of civility provides legitmacy and allows for their ongoing crimes to be sanitized. CALL EM WHAT THEY ARE!
July 12th, 2006 at 12:27 pm#21 - Yeah, false consensus is bad. I don’t think you need to heckle to show your opposition. Plain enough. Let the speaker speak, for chrissakes.
Looking for support, I came across this, and I am now humbled. I think I’m guilty of much of this (and I think probably most of us here are as well) - at the least it’s funny:
July 12th, 2006 at 12:30 pmHeckling and booing is so “cuteâ€. Cute is the new right wing ad hominem attack word. Kittens are cute but defenseless–oh, manbe a hiss and a little scratch, but utterly defenseless against a bully.The vote is the adult, rational response to disagreement in a democracy.
OURÂ VOTES MUST COUNT !!!
 We must confront this reality — that past elections were fixed, and the 2006 elections are just as vulnerable. These findings deserve front-page treatment. Electronic voting machine failure must have prominent and continual coverage. The people must address the serious … catastrophic… issue of unreliable, unsecure and unverifiable voting machines. Two presidential elections have been stolen. If this trend continues America will be an empire not a democracy.
 Electronic voting machines can even be programmed to record a vote for one candidate and give a paper receipt or print out showing a vote for the other candidate. We must insist on paper ballots and hand counting.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:32 pmA much shorter version of you article chase goes
Online debating is kind of like the special olympics, no matter who wins, you both still retarded.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:33 pmLooking for support, I came across this, and I am now humbled. I think I’m guilty of much of this (and I think probably most of us here are as well) - at the least it’s funny:
Course we are all guilty of it, and it’s good to know. The writer is too morose though, there is a massive global dialouge ongoing at the moment and we are all part of it.
Learn the lesson, and keep talking.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:42 pmIt’s funny. When right-wingers were disrupting Clinton’s speeches by yelling “rapist” I’m guessing Chase just sat there smiling.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:53 pmStumble in, take umbrage with someone, trade a few blows, and within about two or three exchanges, the subject itself goes out the window. Suddenly you’re simply arguing about arguing.
Comment by Chase — July 12, 2006 @ 12:30 pm
boy - ain’t that the truth! thanks for that, chase…
July 12th, 2006 at 1:06 pmit ought to be posted first thing every thread, a reminder!
oh, the great shelby steele! the neoconservative great black sacred cow!!!!
the quote reminded me of bush’s mentor:
July 12th, 2006 at 1:12 pmDrSinker,
July 12th, 2006 at 1:15 pmTo hell with rude. Not only should any of this cabal be heckeled, a few thrown rotten veggies or other garbage would be appropriate as well. Whatever it takes to wake these pompus asshats up works for me.
What National Guard? I thought they were all in Iraq on their fourth tour.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:16 pmI am not aware of any other open line of communication with the WH. And even this kind of venue is limited, as one can only hurl a watermellon so far.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:17 pmThere is no “discourse” with this administration, rational or otherwise. People like Rove can barely suppress a giggle when they use the phrase “healthy debate over policy”. There is no debate. Bush gives a press conference, somebody starts to ask him a question he doesn’t like, in the hope of getting some kind of information out of him that would benefit the public, and he cuts them off before they can finish the question. If they manage to get the question out and he doesn’t like the implication, he smarts off and bitches at them. These people will not allow discourse. Stop pretending that there’s any chance of it.
Rove doesn’t really have a job in the White House anymore. He’s trying to help Republicans steal their elections this year. He shouldn’t need Secret Service protection in the job he’s doing now, but he still gets it so he can take shots at Democrats without fear of anyone returning fire. Well, if heckling is the only way to fire back at the guy, or to make him think twice about public appearances outside of the protective bubble, I say go for it. Let him know he’s not going to get the friendly TV coverage with canned applause that he had hoped for.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:35 pmwait people, the 1.9 billion will be paid for by selling advertising on the sides of the death star surveillance blimps by WalMart, Mickey D’s, Pepsico etc. just as the Iraqi oil is paying for Iraq.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:48 pm#34, jimb,
July 12th, 2006 at 2:07 pmNice post.
Heckling is just a starting place.
True Americans need to mobilize now. KKKarl is, as you point out,
being unleashed to steal another election. I agree on the Secret Service,
he doesn’t qualify anymore, but they will be with him.
I wonder if they watched him with Jeff Gannon, too? Video? Now that would
be one to show to voters, eh?
Stop the madness.
Stop this so called war.
Wake up, America, they’re trying to sell you!
SSSSSSSAAAAAAAWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETT!!!!
July 12th, 2006 at 2:17 pmAnyone see this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1818726,00.html
The Guardian UK reports that Novak named Rove as a source today. Am I behind on this or is it not a big deal anymore?
July 12th, 2006 at 2:18 pmAny time the sheeple boo the King’s court jester, instead of automatonically clapping at his asinine antics, I’m proud of them.
Exercize that freedom of speech even more, I say. It’s like a muscle that if you don’t use it, it will atrophy.
I hope there’s more heckling in store for these criminals who’ve stolen the White House. And they should be thankful, because frankly, they deserve much worse.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:41 pm#38
i’m still following and novak said that the first one and the lead leaker is a cia officer if i remember. and that he will not disclose all until the trial is over. what a punk, coward and piece of shit.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:48 pmAnyone connected with this administration should be heckled and protested against — on their way to work, walking into the building, at lunch, on the freeway, at dinner, at the movies, and most of all AT EVERY SINGLE PUBLIC EVENT THEY ATTEND.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:50 pmSo the people who went to the La Raza event disagree with Bush, so they invited Karl Rove so a couple of people (out of hundreds) could boo? Wouldn’t it make more news if the La Raza people simply didn’t show up? So if they did show up maybe some of them actually wanted to hear Karl Rove speak? Which would lead one to believe that not everybody agrees with most of the Mo0b@+ ideas that are posted here. Maybe La Raza (after being labeled moonbatty) was trying to improve it’s image by inviting Rove? the question here is who had more to gain and lose?
July 12th, 2006 at 3:00 pmThe Guardian UK reports that Novak named Rove as a source today. Am I behind on this or is it not a big deal anymore?
Comment by Massachusetts Lilberal — July 12, 2006 @ 2:18 p
mass.lib. - i posted a comment/link about that on A.M. thread
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2006/ 07/ 12/ thinkfast-am-july-12-2006/ #comment-667964
at #31…
it’s sure getting confusing…
July 12th, 2006 at 3:06 pmAnyone connected with this administration should be heckled and protested against — on their way to work, walking into the building, at lunch, on the freeway, at dinner, at the movies, and most of all AT EVERY SINGLE PUBLIC EVENT THEY ATTEND.
Comment by Zooey — July 12, 2006 @ 2:50 pm
HERE! HERE!
July 12th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#28 - I wasn’ there, but had I been I would have hissed the heckler down.
I just don’t like the idea of heckling speakers. It doesn’t bring anything positive to the discourse.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:09 pmDid Karl address LaRaza in Spanish?
July 12th, 2006 at 3:10 pmThey should have thrown rotten eggs and spoiled vegetables and fruit at Karl Rove! He is a creep and a criminal > PERIOD.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:11 pmI just don’t like the idea of heckling speakers. It doesn’t bring anything positive to the discourse.
Comment by Chase — July 12, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
But you’re okay with posters in blogs?
You’ve perfectly described the waywe feel about your neocon trolls. Your heckling doesn’t bring anything positive to the discourse.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:30 pmI just don’t like the idea of heckling speakers. It doesn’t bring anything positive to the discourse.
Comment by Chase — July 12, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
i actually do understand what you mean, but… these are “extenuating circumstances”!!!
July 12th, 2006 at 3:53 pmat least your comments are the most reasonable of all the dissenting opinions here…
thank you for that…
#48 - Can you not see the difference between a speech and an open forum?
#49 - Ha I didn’t know there was an exception. I just think it’s disruptive and disrespectful, to the speaker and (more so) to the other listeners who are there to listen.
It’s one thing to set up your own speech to voice your opinions, it’s another thing entirely to infringe upon the free speech rights of another by interrupting them.
July 12th, 2006 at 4:11 pmChase:
Seriously, take the time and look at some old Nazi press reels. While I don’t agree with heckling as far as manners goes, I do think it has a purpose.
unbelievable
I don’t think Chase is really a troll. He seems to be posting respectably enough, its just that we don’t agree with him on lot of things.
July 12th, 2006 at 4:28 pmI say we start by booing these people, then one day, a shining and golden day, maybe they’ll be in jail.
Comment by Zooey
July 12th, 2006 at 4:44 pm=========
…and that day will be a very good day in my household–full of large smiles and hugs.
Anyone connected with this administration should be heckled and protested against — on their way to work, walking into the building, at lunch, on the freeway, at dinner, at the movies, and most of all AT EVERY SINGLE PUBLIC EVENT THEY ATTEND.
Comment by Zooey — July 12, 2006 @ 2:50 pm
HERE! HERE!
Comment by katy
July 12th, 2006 at 4:55 pm==============
I’m with Zooey and Katy.
Those connected with this administration are,after all,murderous criminals or their support team.
Whenever I see Karl Rove, the first image that flashes into my mind is that of Jabba the Hutt, the resemblance is uncanny.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:01 pm#10; Rova AND son should be drafted into the army and sent to Iraq. Rove sr. is a chickenhawk draft-dodger for Vietnam, he should have his ass in Iraq NOW. While we’re at it,5-deferment Dickhead Cheney, deserter Bush and other draft-dodgers in this administration and GOP Congress should be drafted as well.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:05 pmCan you not see the difference between a speech and an open forum?
Comment by Chase — July 12, 2006 @ 4:11 pm
Since you didn’t tell me, I’m guessing that there isn’t any.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:10 pmBruce,
All due respect, Chase is a troll. Seixon just raised the bar of trolling so high that Chase seems innocuous in comparision. I think he just has better manners and is more lucid. He’s still here for the same reasons.
I’ll believe there is a difference when one of them actually asks questions instead of building and attacking strawmen. Someone like Tundra.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:13 pmChase,
The time for being polite is over. This crap is getting serious. Like Bluedog49 described above, the “right” was disgustingly impolite to Pres. Clinton, but apparently it was a-okay with the manners police back then.
The “right” uses manners as a weapon. I, for one, am done being polite to people like Rove.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:16 pmDr. Sinker- We tried to be polite with giving the “evildoers” like KKKarl the silent treatment and it doesn’t work. He, the administration, the pundits and the RepubliKKKans, and LIEberman are bullies and love kicking us when we’re down. For those reasons we are not going to just take it anymore.
If we have to offend those assholes in the Reich-Wing community in order to get some ground back, we will.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:19 amI’m happy that Rove was heckled. It means Freedom of Speech has not been crushed and the paralyzing grip of fear has been loosened. The hecklers weren’t afraid of Rove. Even if they were, they did it anyway. It takes courage to heckle, to express dissent, to protest against corruption. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the word “Boo”. It’s not like a person can walk up to the stage, grab the microphone, and proceed to give a polite yet condemning liberal speech. “Boo” covers how protesters feel rather well, I think. And it is polite in that it isn’t a curse word. It’s a polite way to say, “You’re full of shit” or “You’re lying!” or “You’re a stinky human being!” All of which is true about Rove.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:36 am