Putin Jabs Bush: ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’
Putin Jabs Bush: ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’
During a press conference today at the G8 summit in Russia, President Bush told President Vladimir Putin that Americans want Russia to develop a free press and free religion “like Iraq.” To laughter and applause, Putin responded: “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.” CNN’s Ed Henry called it a “tough jab.” Watch it:
The exchange underscores how the war in Iraq has damaged the standing of the United States, to the point where even modest encouragement for democratic reform is met with ridicule.
Full transcript:
BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.
PUTIN: We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.
BUSH: Just wait.
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Preznit Clueless, the head of state from the planet BizarroWorld.
<*SHEESH*>
Will somone give him a BJ so we can impeach him already?
Cheers,
July 15th, 2006 at 1:03 pmWhat an embarrassment to us….Bush is pResident because Diebold, et al, own our democracy. Eat some more pig, George.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pmYep, its words like those that are so reassuring to the rest of the world.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pmIn fact who wants to be like America is the real question - Nobody i know
July 15th, 2006 at 1:09 pmWhat a dumbass Bush is. He just got the smack dab on International TV.
Too bad our own Democrats don’t have the balls Vladmir Putin has.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:10 pmThe next time he visits Russia, W will have to take the bubble along.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:14 pmBush: “Just wait.” Putin should’ve shot back, “Bring it on!” Seriously, I never thougth in my lifetime I’d see a former head of the KGB mocking our president in public and I’d laugh at his skewering.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:16 pmPutin’s certainly coming up with the zinger’s these days, no? His comment regarding Cheney’s remark was also classic.
At the end of the day, the sad reality is that we appear to win the award for “Dumbest Leader”. Great.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:17 pmThat is what happens when you send a fool to do a man’s job. The dumb SOB probably doesn’t know he was “dissed.” When Turd Blossom tells him he will have Cheney leak that Stalin and Lenin were lovers.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:17 pmPutin should call Bush a murdering fascist to his face! I would love to see Bush go ballistic in public, and look like a kid throwing a tantrum, because he got called a name > lol.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:21 pmThink Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.
What next? All in the name of anti-Bush. Disgusting.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:23 pmwhenever I see Bush with Putin, I remember when Bush met Putin, and declared he had looked into his eyes, gotten a sense of his soul, and could see he (Putin) was trustworthy http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1392791.stm
maybe Bush got that one wrong…I hope we have stopped making foreign policy decisions based on looking into the souls of world leaders
July 15th, 2006 at 1:24 pmIts about time someone put our great leader in his proper place, at the end of the line. The man is a disaster, and still, 35% of the people in this country support him? His support level should be no more than 2-3%, but of course, there are more idiots than that in this country.
Iraq is a disaster. This country is a disaster, especially the economy which bush extolled just the other day. Since then, the people who know what is going on, have driven the Dow down 400 points. Oh yeah Georgie Porgie, the economy is in great shape.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:25 pmThink Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.-Seixon
You can’t disagree that Iraq represents something fairly poor to hold up as the model for a democracy right now. You don’t think there are better examples?
July 15th, 2006 at 1:26 pmThe funny part is that everyone is laughing even though what Bush said is true: the press in Iraq is more free than it is in Russia.
Only anti-Bush dupes would ignore that and fall for Putin’s obvious hollow retort.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pm[…] Source…. « Valerie Wilson Press Conference […]
July 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pmYou can’t disagree that Iraq represents something fairly poor to hold up as the model for a democracy right now. You don’t think there are better examples?
The press in Iraq is more free than in Russia. Obviously Putin had to take a cheap shot instead of just admitting the fact. That’s what’s funny here.
Ha ha ha, the Russian press is less free than in the “disasterous” Iraq, ha ha ha, everyone laugh with me, ha ha ha.
LOL
July 15th, 2006 at 1:28 pmYes, Russia’s press is less free than Iraq’s. But I don’t think Putin’s comment was about the press. I think it was about the MASSIVE CIVIL WAR that is RIPPING IRAQ TO PIECES.
Only PRO-BUSH DUPES would be able to miss that subtle point.
**
July 15th, 2006 at 1:31 pmSeixon: “Think Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.” You’re nothing if not predictable, Seixon. But then, you’re taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush. If you can’t see the lines blurring between these two men, you’re in a presbyopia bubble too.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:32 pmSeixon, taking the side of the anti-democrtic Bush.
What Next? All in the name of sucking on George Bush’s asshole, Typical.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:33 pmDr. Sinker - ignore Seixon, he’s only here for the negative attention. If he’s deprived of that here, he might have to go out and meet real people instead of spending all night on his computer.
Free Religion in Iraq? Iraq has a State-sponsored Religion (Islam) in its Constitution!
Free Press in Iraq? You mean the free press we pay to print in our propaganda? (Oh, I almost forgot, this Administration does that here, too!)
July 15th, 2006 at 1:34 pmIraq’s press is free….to print the stories provided by the United STates Department of Defense.
Sorry Seixon, you loose again. try something else.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:35 pmMoron in chief…
So Red Neck America - Are you not embarrassed yet? Or are you still to dumb? OK, more time is needed I see.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:35 pmThis just shows again that Bush ISas stupid as he seems.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:36 pmSeixon, what are doing here? Don’t you have some heavy petting with Joe Lieberman scheduled on your time away from the playground?
In winger world they could make fun of President Clinton all the time, in winger world though, any jabs at Bush are made, in the words of Odious Joe Lieberman “at our nations peril”.
Suck it up Siexon, you backed a loser.
-GSD
July 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pmMy mama said stupid is as stupid does.
And Bush does.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pmDr. Sinker - ignore Seixon, he’s only here for the negative attention.-BnF
I know. I think mostly he’s just sorry that more people don’t post over on his own blog. TP commenters >> Seixon commenters.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:39 pmAmerica, from world superpower to international laughing stock. Just add powdered Chimpy and watch the credibility dissappear!
-GSD
July 15th, 2006 at 1:40 pmWhat an asshole! Everyone in the world laughs at him. Except the 30% of Americans who think the Earth is flat and Bush is God.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:42 pmYou can’t have a free press if the country is both occupied and in the midst of a sadistic civil war, as Iraq is, despite American media and political claims to the opposite.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:42 pm“Think Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.”
And you are taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWhich is even worse given the fact that Bush has done much more damage to the rest of the world than Putin.
BADA-BING! Prez’dent Jerkowicz!
July 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pmI remember when Putin was on 60 Minutes II early last year, he also couldn’t resist a dig at Bush by implying that he was made President not through any democratic process but through our Supreme Court. Sure, Putin sucks at solving hostage negotiations and rescuing his own sailors but he’s got George Bush pegged and occasionally zings him with a candor that’s nonetheless quite refreshing.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pmSay what you will about Presidenr Putin, at least he conducts himself with a style one would expect from a head of state.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pmYour President on the other hand…has five fingers.
Kind regards
You can’t disagree that Iraq represents something fairly poor to hold up as the model for a democracy right now.
Perhaps, but consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War). It’s not as though Dictator to Democracy is a nice flowing transition … it takes time, especially if there are those with belief systems strongly averse to a free democracy. Bush walked into that one, but Putin’s “great bear” is shameful along the metrics Bush was comparing. Given this (not to mention the way Russia responds to terrorism … hint - far more harshly than the USA) I would think progressives would find Putin far more distasteful than Bush. That is unless their ignorant … then I understand.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pmUnfortunately, Putin is correct. Bush has no right lecturing anybody on democracy. He has hundreds of examples both here and abound - Iraq/Afghanistan that prove that he does not understand a democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:49 pmFree press, Iraq has a free press? Since shen? I hear that they must print what is doled out to them by the military or they are bombed out of business.
I say free Iraq by getting the hell out of there. Any person with any sense at all can see it is a failure and that by leaving we will indeed be FREEING IRAQ.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:50 pmpreaching religious freedom and human rights to Putin lacks credibility when Bush does it. i’m sure Putin just wanted to roll his eyes.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:53 pmSay what you will about Presidenr Putin, at least he conducts himself with a style one would expect from a head of state.
Yeah … what you see is not what you get. His public style not withstanding, he’s shown himself to be under-handed and duplicitous. Would you prefer the individual who appears to like and agree with you to one who is upfront about believing neither? Not me.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:54 pmA free Iraqi press? Lol… It’s well documented that the U.S. military continues to pay for publishing propaganda in Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:55 pmThat could be ominous.
Is he saying, just wait until we are done in Iraq, or just wait Putin, we’ll get to you next - you will have the same ’style’ democracy as Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:56 pmGiacomo misses the point. The point isn’t if we would prefer Putin or Bush. The point is that we have had several opportunities to get it right in Iraq and we have fumbled the ball at every turn. That’s the point. If we would have given contract to Iraqis instead of KBR. If we would have embraced the Sunnis as Iraqis instead as criminals. if we would have not dismissed the Army or all Bathists. If, IF, IF then Iraq would not be the war torn world that it is now. That’s the point!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 1:56 pmSeixon:
With pom poms in hand,I welcome you back.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:57 pmThis thread is gonna get HOT.
I predict upward of 400 posts.
Oh man you guys are dupes. Of course Putin redirected to the violence in Iraq when he was faced with the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia. It’s the type of bullshit you goons do all the time when I and other bring up inconvenient facts.
I bring up the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia, and suddenly I have almost a half dozen people personally attacking me.
I don’t know why Bush brought up religion though, that was pretty dumb. Most Russians are atheists.
Badmoodman: “But then, you’re taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush.”
Spudge_Boy: “Seixon, taking the side of the anti-democrtic Bush.”
Yeah, I’m the one who’s predictable, LOL. Isn’t this where you guys offer to go live in Russia since it’s so much more democratic than the US? Come on, do it. Put your money where your mouth is.
Here’s some more predictability:
Briseadh na Faire : “You mean the free press we pay to print in our propaganda?”
Spudge_Boy: “Iraq’s press is free….to print the stories provided by the United STates Department of Defense.”
LOL. It’s almost like you guys are reading from a script! Hmmm. What script would that be? Think Progress, do you guys know? What, you guys provide a script every day? Huh, imagine that.
Way to take generalize anecdotes, while covering for Putin’s ass, the guy who has controlled Russian media with the state. God you guys hate Bush, you can’t even deal with simple facts without trying to attack the facts with BS.
DrSinker,
I know. I think mostly he’s just sorry that more people don’t post over on his own blog. TP commenters >> Seixon commenters.
Yeah, I’m also very jealous that George Soros doesn’t bankroll my blog, not to mention a former Clinton Chief of Staff.
It’s funny that you guys think comparing my blog to Think Progress is even a valid or relevant topic. LOL.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:57 pmFree press, Iraq has a free press? Since shen? I hear that they must print what is doled out to them by the military or they are bombed out of business.
Think Progress - where facts don’t matter.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:58 pmPerhaps, but consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War). It’s not as though Dictator to Democracy is a nice flowing transition … it takes time, especially if there are those with belief systems strongly averse to a free democracy.-Giacomo
I agree. The problem, of course, is that this kind of timeframe was never suggested to the American public. One has to conclude that either Bush has not been honest and frank with the country or he is simply ignorant as well.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:58 pmfree press in Iraq…… HA HA HA HA you Americans dont want free press in Iraq you have shot and killed 65 as a warning to journalists to stay out HAHAHAHAHA
July 15th, 2006 at 2:00 pmWhen you don’t win, you “lose,” you do not “loose.” Also: “Or are you still to dumb? OK, more time is needed I see.” (the correct word in that context is too , not “to”)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pmalso blown up aljazeeras head offices in 3 countries …Bush is pathetic
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pmIf, IF, IF then Iraq would not be the war torn world that it is now. That’s the point!!!
Comment by ecthompson — July 15, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
Under your ‘correct’ solution …
The Kurds would still pursue establishing Kurdistan - hardly pro-Irai
The Shia would still pursue broader Shia ‘community’ - Iran.
The Sunni would still be without oil.
Any intervention will split off the Kurds and destablize the region - vis Turkey - and the southern Shia - vis Iran.
Any intervention ends the post WWI fiction of the state of Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pmIt’s funny that you guys think comparing my blog to Think Progress is even a valid or relevant topic. LOL.-Seixon
I didn’t realize the bankroll was what made this site so popular. If only it were that simple.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:02 pmThe invasion of Iraq was never about democracy. Democracy and the “war on terror” are simply the cover stories to war profiteering and looting foreign nationals of their natural resources - chiefly oil and gas. The Dumbya dictatorship is a criminal regime - it criminally acquired power and it criminally manifests its policy to the detriment of the organic development of true democratic republics and indigenous people’s control over their own resources.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:02 pmWow, you haven’t been hear in a long time.
None of us worship Putin or think he is great. We just think it is about time that somebody told the truth about Iraq. It is failing. It is not getting better. It is getting worse. It is okay, you can go aheaad and admit that. Remember admittance is the first step to recovery.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:03 pmPutin Slaps Bush Around…
All my wife had to say about this video (which you must absolutely watch) was “beautiful.”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:04 pmIn it, Putin really makes Bush look like a fool. It’s classic.
Think Progress has more.
…
I think it’s great that President Vladimir Putin made his feelings on the situation in Iraq known publicly for President Bush and all the world to hear, instead of behind close doors…
More politicans should put honesty before politics in conducting effective and open diplomacy for their constituents and their country… maybe then more of us would vote.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:08 pmPutin handed Bush his AZZ!!!
EVERYTHING, from the STOLEN ELECTION in 2000, to the outing of a CIA spy for POLITICAL REVENGE (which blew the cover of Brewster Jennings)
to LIES about WMD in Iraq
to SMEARS by the UBER-Jofef Goebbels, Karl “Bush’s Brain” Rove.
to wanting to attack Iran.
shows that the Bush, the PNAC, and the WHOLE
BushCrime (TM) family
are WAR CRIMINALS.
P.S. Let’s not forget “Republican Jesus”, who justifies GREED, HATE (Rush, Ann, Bill, Hann…) and KILLING of our fellow man.
Read Jesus’ General, J.C. Christian, PATRIOT.
By the way, I AM a Christian, a follower of Jesus’ Word. Bush and his TRAITORS have in NO WAY kept the Word of God or Jesus.
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
July 15th, 2006 at 2:08 pmYeah, I agree, because your little peice of shit blog, like my peice of shit blog is nowhere near as informative as Think Progress. I finally agree with you.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:09 pmPutin is the man. I can’t believe GWB didn’t see that coming what with all the “When I look into his eyes I see his soul” talk from just a few short years ago. GWB is a meat puppet and nothing more. I only have one question for the rest of the Americans out there…’Don’t you as an American feel a little ashamed and down right embarrassed to have such a fool for your president?’ I know most people associate with GWB and think he’s just like one of us but seriously people don’t you want someone a lot smarter and suave then you determining your countries future.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:10 pmIt is almost as if you can’t read, TP didn’t praise Putin over Bush. TP did not indicate that Russia is terrific democratic and free.
Reading is Fundamental
July 15th, 2006 at 2:12 pm(…)consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War).
Comment by Giacomo — July 15, 2006 @ 1:48 pm
This comparison is invalid. Upon gaining their independence, the US did not go through a period of open armed conflict where different factions were killing each other on the streets to gain control of the country.
Even the Civil War was not about gaining control but about seceding.
I would think progressives would find Putin far more distasteful than Bush. That is unless their ignorant … then I understand.
I think you are missing the point by such a long shot it’s not even funny.
The point is that “even modest encouragement for democratic reform is met with ridicule” thanks to the invasion, and ongoing conflict in Iraq. Who wants a democracy under those conditions?
I sure find Putin distasteful -but he made a good point.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:13 pmDrSinker,
I didn’t realize the bankroll was what made this site so popular. If only it were that simple.
No, I’m thinking being linked to a well-known liberal organization, and being run by Clintonistas is what makes it popular. I’m just a nobody with a blog. I’m not sure what is so fascinating in pointing out that my blog is not widely read as Think Progress. It would seem like a “DUH” moment for anyone.
As for press freedom in Iraq vs. Russia, Reporters Without Borders rated Iraq vs. Russia as follows for the past few years:
2003:
Iraq: 37.50
Russia: 49.50
2004:
Iraq: 58.50
Russia: 51.38
2005:
Iraq: 67
Russia: 48.67
Keep in mind that a lower number = more free.
3 year average for Iraq: 54
3 year average for Russia: 49.85
Wow.
Iraq was a under a dictator just 3 years ago, and is still undergoing sectarian violence, yet they have just about as free a press as Russia does.
The reasons for press freedom in Iraq vs. Russia are different as well, with the problems in Iraq being due to sectarian violence, whereas in Russia it is goverment meddling.
Even the United States press, in Iraq, has a better press freedom than in Russia (48.5 vs 48.67) LOL.
The United States press is rated at 9.50.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:14 pmSo, what? Putin is angling for Jay Leno’s job as his next career move?
He gives a whole new meaning to “the jokes just write themselves.”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:15 pmThe point isn’t if we would prefer Putin or Bush. The point is that we have had several opportunities to get it right in Iraq and we have fumbled the ball at every turn.
“Get it right” seems to be a scientifically dubious statement. Has any war/battle/invasion/engagment/skirmish ever gone “right” … what does “right” mean, anyway. Do we know it when we see it … did WWI go right … how about WWII … I’d say not. The “ends” were achieved, but much was very far from “right”. Do you think it possible that to a similar extent, a beneficial end (to the Iraqi people, to the US, to the world) can be achieved in Iraq … even in the absence of “getting it right”?
You list a host of “ifs” that are impossible to prove. The “ifs” can neither be accurate nor innaccurate … they are tools of convenience to the arguer. Things could’ve been “better”, things should’ve been “better” … they aren’t, so we now deal with the world we have … not the world we wish we had. Enjoying Putin’s snarky comment to Bush only makes one appear an ideologue … serious contrarians can recognize Bush’s faults without glorying in a “pile on” with a world leader who objectifies everything progressives stand against.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:15 pmSpudge_Boy,
When’s the last time some crazy cabal of political operatives called your house to dig up information on you because of your blog?
Cough.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:15 pmWow, you haven’t been hear in a long time.
I “troll” through from time to time ;-)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:16 pmI’m just a nobody with a blog.-Seixon
I’m glad you’re finally coming to your senses.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:16 pmHow pathetic. That is the problem with “staying the courseâ€. Bush’s talking points have not changed one iota even though the “war†in Iraq has gone from “Mission Accomplished†all the way down to “How the heck do we get out of here in one pieceâ€.
Staying on message appears “strong and resolute†in unchanging circumstance but when your house is burning down right where you stand, people think your are just being “stubborn†before calling you first, “out of touch†and then plain “stupid†like Putin just did. Bush should stop before he graduates to “certifiably insaneâ€.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:17 pmGWBHater:
GWB is a meat puppet and nothing more.
Nah! I’m sure there’s some sting bean in there somewhere.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:17 pmdrsinker, just think how such a sales pitch would have gone–hey, americans! listen up–instead of going after osama bin ladin, were going to spend trillions to try to create a democracy in iraq, which didnt attack us, and which might have some leftover wmds from the reagan administration that dont work anymore! the good news is–it might take less than 200 years! what a deat!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:18 pmGoes to show how much power the office of president has. One dipshit has made America into a joke.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:18 pmSeixon
You do realise that your figures show that Iraq has a less free press then Russia don’t you? (”lower number = more free”)
And more remarkably, that the press in Iraq has become significantly less free as a result of Bush’s war of “Liberation” in Iraq? I mean, what other conclusion can you take from the fact that according to your numbers, Iraq’s press has grown significantly less free from the start of the invasion.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:20 pmI bring up the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia, and suddenly I have almost a half dozen people personally attacking me.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
This is how you can tell Seixon makes up his facts as he goes:
Keep in mind that a lower number = more free.
3 year average for Iraq: 54
3 year average for Russia: 49.85
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:14 pm
So what you said was a fact is indeed not a fact.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmI get crazy e-mail and shit all the time too. Don’t think you are the only one.
Is that the real reason you are in Norway?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmPretty funny!!! President Clueless visits Russia and it takes Putin to Push ‘Dubya in his place.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmi love it, his post shows that russia’s press is freer, and he doesn’t even realize it! way to go, bushboy!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:22 pmI know Giacomo. You are one of the sane “trolls” I would take you anyday over some of the crazy fvckers we get in here.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:22 pmDo you think it possible that to a similar extent, a beneficial end (to the Iraqi people, to the US, to the world) can be achieved in Iraq … even in the absence of “getting it right�-Giacomo
The key question is not what’s possible, it’s what’s plausible. Right now, it does not seem plausible. Before we invaded, at least to me and several others here I suspect, it did not seem plausible.
The means also matter, in my opinion. The fact that we’re actively engaging in breaking the Geneva conventions is a huge pox mark on the US. We’ve lost a great deal of credibility as a result of this war and the “war on terror”.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:23 pmbut but but bruce gorton–it hasn’t been 200 years yet! just you wait, after another 150 years or so, iraq’s press could be freer! the march of democracy just takes a little time–a few weeks, maybe a couple months, or, what the heck, a millenium.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:24 pmBruce and Gregor,
Reporters without Borders is only one estimator, and you are completely leaving out the circumstances between Iraq and Russia. The fact that both countries are in a statistical dead heat over the past three years, while Iraq has sectarian violence and Russia does not, I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot here.
I will admit that my first statement of “fact” was probably a bit too strong, but only because I didn’t qualify it properly.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:24 pmseixon forgets that bushy says putin has a beautiful soul! and bushy is never wrong!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:25 pmwhoa, now seixon show us that if you lie about a fact, then put quotes around the word “fact”, then it isn’t a lie anymore. nice going!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:26 pmWhat a sad state of affairs when one has to agree with Mr. Putin, the leader of Russia! Everywhere this excuse for a president goes he sticks his foot in his mouth and leaves this nation the laughing stock of the world! He is a national disgrace and it is significant that many of our international friends, and those that were our friends, see him for what he is. Yet, we still have a significant percentage of the American people that “just don’t get it” with this man. Were it for a lack of evidence, it could be understood. But, it is painfully obvious from the news, and testimony of others involved, as to where this man is taking this nation. Yet, it appears that the American people, congress, and the courts continue to allow this to go on with practically no resistance. How sad!!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pmI doubt that Russia would appreciate a “free press” or “free religion” that currently exists in the Untide States of Bush for that matter.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pm40,000 U.S. troops in Iraq through 2016? A new CBO report, not widely available to the public (but SSA has it), puts forth that scenario
Only on SSA Blog
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
Notice Bush didn’t present free press in America as an example to follow.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pm…consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War). /em>
I don’t know how long our country took to “cement” but I do know that Americans weren’t killing one another in large numbers everyday prior to coming together in a funcioning country. By no stretch of the drugged or sober imagination can Iraq be called a democracy when the exercise of the most basic freedoms can result in being murdered.
The strong possibility for sectarian violence always existed in Iraq. While it is possible (a small possibility) that allowing Iraqis to rebuild their own country and retaining the Iraqi army would have resulted in a more stable country, the fact that there were sectarian divisions and that Iraqis had no experience in self-government should have put off any sane person from invading and attempting to impose a “plan” for order. Of course, in the eyes of the rest of the world, invading a sovereign nation that has not attacked us was illegal and immoral.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pmSpudge_Boy,
With ex-CIA agents riding my ass, I guess I’ll say it’s probably a good thing that I am in Norway. E-mail is not the same thing as a phone call. Anyone can email, that doesn’t take any guts or even compromising yourself at all. Making a phone call is totally different.
kitchensinkwmds,
Relatively speaking, Iraq has a more free press than Russia does. Iraq has gone from 79 in 2002 to 67 in 2005. Russia has gone from 48 in 2002 to… 48.67 in 2005.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:29 pmReporters without Borders is only one estimator, and you are completely leaving out the circumstances between Iraq and Russia.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:24 pm
So now you are willing to take the word of international organisations?
Why do you believe Reporters without Borders on democracy in Iraq, but not Physicians for Human Rights on what constitutes torture?
The fact that both countries are in a statistical dead heat over the past three years, while Iraq has sectarian violence and Russia does not, I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot here.
I am not -you did: You provided the figures that debunked your previous statement. In fact, you can see how Iraq’s index has gone up (for worse) since the beginning of the invasion. Hardly an endorsement of Iraq’s freedom of the press.
I will admit that my first statement of “fact†was probably a bit too strong, but only because I didn’t qualify it properly.
Seixon admitting to an error? wow… I wonder what is the temperature in hell right now…
July 15th, 2006 at 2:30 pmTigris Lily,
Notice Bush didn’t present free press in America as an example to follow.
Might be because that would have been too damn obvious of an example…
July 15th, 2006 at 2:30 pmWhoops!! Another BUSHISM ……. I cannot laugh anymore, I am beginning to cry outloud for HELP !! but no one is listening …
July 15th, 2006 at 2:31 pmGeorge “Dick C.”Bush is at it again … OH my !!
In the meantime as he speaks our Constitution is being shredded … maybe to match the democracy in IRAQ .. As Putin eludes to when he says he is not interested…
- Seixon:
With ex-CIA agents riding my ass, I guess I’ll say it’s probably a good thing that I am in Norway.
Yeah, I know how you feel. The Men in Black visit me every other week.
I knew before that your egotism was out of control, but this is beyond the pale.
Seixon, do yourself a favor and get over yourself. The rest of us have.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:34 pmRelatively speaking, Iraq has a more free press than Russia does. Iraq has gone from 79 in 2002 to 67 in 2005. Russia has gone from 48 in 2002 to… 48.67 in 2005.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
I don’t see any “relatively” here - that (according to the numbers) Russia’s press rating has remained essentially contant and Iraq’s press, while “more free” is still not as free as Russia’s.
When you’re in stuck in a hole, you might want to stop digging.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:34 pmThat is because I don’t let my information get out there. You should keep your personal information under tighter wraps. G. :)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:36 pmFreedom of the press in Iraq… WTF?! Do none of you trolls happen to remember when the newpaper “al-Hawza” was ordered to shut down by the U.S. military (March 29, 2004)?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:37 pmI know it was ever so long ago, but gosh there were these massive protests and I’m almost sure it was reported upon.
Gregor,
I only gave RWB as an example. If you have any other indicators of press freedom, feel free to chime in. In fact, RWP might not be the best one there is. As for RWB vs. Physicians for Human Rights, RWB’s numbers come from journalists, whereas PHR just states their own opinions.
You provided the figures that debunked your previous statement. In fact, you can see how Iraq’s index has gone up (for worse) since the beginning of the invasion. Hardly an endorsement of Iraq’s freedom of the press.
Yes, the figures from RWB seem to indicate that there is less press freedom in Iraq right now than in Russia, but in 2003 that was not the case. Iraq has gotten worse, and that is due to the sectarian violence. Even so, Iraq has improved 10 points since 2002, whereas Russia has gotten slightly worse. In other words, Iraq has improved 1000% while Russia has gotten worse by a few percent. Even with the sectarian violence…..
Seixon admitting to an error? wow… I wonder what is the temperature in hell right now…
I always do when I make one. In fact, I’m the one who looked up the figures that debunked my original claim, although I’m not sure that other estimators would show the same thing as RWB. I’m going to see if the UN has one as well.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:37 pmyes, you should have qualified your first statement of fact by putting quotation marks around the word “fact”. this would alert readers to the “fact” that you really meant “something im just pulling out of thin air that may not be true”.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:38 pmThis comparison is invalid. Upon gaining their independence, the US did not go through a period of open armed conflict where different factions were killing each other on the streets to gain control of the country.
Well … much of the first 8 years or so was war with Great Britain. The Washington Presidency was relatively smooth, but I’d refer you to the Jefferson (with Arron Burr as the outcast VP) presidency as extremely polarized … they did indeed kill one another (to very much gain control of the country) but not in a comparable way to Iraq.
I agree the comparison is not perfect … but the eraly US was violent and extremely partisan … it seems the Republican and Democrats (the Federalists and the Republicans) hammered out our democracy with much political unrest. The populace was almost as fractured. That’s all I was saying … it takes time ….
July 15th, 2006 at 2:39 pmWe’re all forgetting that when you’re washing Bush’s balls like Seixon’s trying here, you almost always need to make shit up. In this case, we’re told that DOWN is UP. Is it any wonder that most of these folks can’t grasp global warming, stem-cell research, or “insert anything scientific”?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:39 pmanother fun fact–the moon is falling into the sun! oh wait, i should have qualified that statement by the appropriate use of quotation mark around the word fact! my bad!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:40 pmbut drsinker–you must realize, that, by some accounts, “down” is “relatively” “higher” than “up”! see?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:41 pmAccording to this statement, they are exactly the same.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:42 pmTripMaster,
Seixon, do yourself a favor and get over yourself. The rest of us have.
Last time you made a joke about someone calling my family’s home. Now you’re making a joke about the fact that at least one ex-CIA agent has been riding my ass for writing about certain subjects. Would you make a joke out of me getting shot as well? Geez.
kitchensinkwds et al,
So the expectation of press freedom is the same during war as it is during peace time? Zzzz…. That’s why I say “relatively” because no sane person would compare Russia and Iraq with the same standard. Not to mention that Iraq’s press freedom was much lower than Russia’s in 2003 before the sectarian violence took hold.
In other words, if there was no sectarian violence in Iraq, then Iraq’s press freedom would be much better than in Russia. 2003 proves it.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:43 pmway to move those goalposts seixon! im glad you back off your claim about iraq having a freer press! now youre arguing about why iraq’s press isn’t as free as russia’s press! nice flexibility!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:46 pmsomewhere a village is missing it’s idiot.
why did he have to be Preznit of the Unaaahted Staytes?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:46 pmyes, if there wasn’t a low grade civil war in iraq, things would be better! isn’t that special!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:47 pmPutin, Putin gave G;Gutless, W;WarMonger, B;Blameless
a hell of a Bootin’!
Only if our elected official had a spine!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmSeixon, you just moved tyhe goal post. I know how much you hate that, so I don’t think you should be doing that.
Vldmir Putin used the word “have” not “had” in his rip on Bush. We are talking about the present. Don’t move the goal posts.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmEven so, Iraq has improved 10 points since 2002, whereas Russia has gotten slightly worse. In other words, Iraq has improved 1000% while Russia has gotten worse by a few percent.-Seixon
How’s that shovel working out for you?
Going from 79 to 67 is a 12 point change, not 10. It shows an improvement of roughly 20%, not 1000. This is like high-school stuff.
Further, Iraq’s current trend is not good. This is due to sectarian violence? Do you think Bush realizes that sectarian violence is making the press in Iraq less free? Based on today’s comments, probably not.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmAlso, for those keeping score:
Sectarian Violence = Civil War
July 15th, 2006 at 2:49 pmFreedom of religion like in Iraq? You mean the freedom to systematically round up, torture and execute your neighbors because they are from a different sect of the SAME religion as yourself? I’m glad we don’t have that kind of freedom of religion here. The Southern Baptist would be out slaughtering the Episcopals and Unitarians in the streets.
Honestly, what is this man smoking?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:49 pmBush: “I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world like Iraq…”
Putin: “We certainly would not want to have the same type of democracy as Iraq.”
Russia has worsened 0.67 points in press freedom since 2002.
Iraq has gone up 10 points in press freedom since 2002.
I rest my case.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:50 pmSeriously, do people reall think that GWB is “just like one of us”? And want to associate with Bush as a pal? Hahahaaa…. Bush is Connecticut Yankee from Yale University pretending to be a good o’ boy, your “pal”? You gotta be a sucker!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:51 pmBorn with a silver spoon… GWB, a born non-achiever, is the Frontman-in-Chief & Cheerleader for Big Oil, Insurance, Pharmaceuticals, the War Profiteers Industry. Stop being sucked in by lies, sound bites and emotionally manipulative ads. Wake up, people!
Good for Putin. He’s only saying what other leaders around the world would love to say. He made Bush look like a damn fool! Which by the way is pretty easy to do. Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones! Bush threw the stone and Putin threw a brick back at him.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:51 pmThe key question is not what’s possible, it’s what’s plausible. Right now, it does not seem plausible. Before we invaded, at least to me and several others here I suspect, it did not seem plausible.
Plausability is very much in the eye of the beholder. It wasn’t plausible for the “patriots” to gain independence in the face of the “loyalists” and the greatest military on the known earth, but it happened. Right now, the plausbility of success is directly proportional to American willingness to not back out. I’m not sure how pulling troops out now serves anyone’s interests now … we must deal with things as they are. The Israelis pulled out of Gaza … did that withdrawal from “occupied territory” create peace … nope, the vacuum was filled by those who abhor peace. I think Iraq is analagous at this point.
The means also matter, in my opinion. The fact that we’re actively engaging in breaking the Geneva conventions is a huge pox mark on the US. We’ve lost a great deal of credibility as a result of this war and the “war on terrorâ€.
The means certainly matter … they must matter. I’m of the understanding that you’re making the “exceptions” into the “rule”. I’m sure you know military members who are of high quality and ethics … we can’t tarnish those (who are the majority) with the acts of the sadistic few.
In terms of official policy, I think Bush has retreated from that front substantially. You may disagree. Our world standing has certainly deteriorated … this is one part bumbling and one part convenience to those who already didn’t like us (remember back when many Europeans tried to say that we were no better than the USSR in the 80s and 90s). We may have bent over, but they were waiting to kick us in the rear. To state otherwise is to be ignorant of history.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:52 pmOh, sorry, 12 points. Heh.
Bush was talking about progress, and there has been progress in Iraq which there hasn’t been in Russia. Putin laughs this off, just like all of you. Pathetic.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:52 pmIf a free press means not being controlled by government then Iraq has a freer press than either Russia or the US because that government controlls nothing. And if Dick Cheney thought the G8 summit was important he wouldn’t have sent his puppet to make an ass of himself again.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pmHa ! Now that was a shot….Bush sounded so pathetic as usual with the “Just Wait”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pm(…)whereas PHR just states their own opinions.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
You seem to believe all opinions carry the same weight. They do not. There are opinions, then informed opinions, then educated opinions.
PHR are trained professionals in the medical field who have extensive experience working with, and treating people who have been tortured.
When you go to the doctor’s -do you feel personally qualified to challenge their opinion on what’s ailing you? Or how to treat it?
Same with RWB -they are qualified professionals whose index is the result of certain standards they think are a reflection of freedom of the press.
They are both educated opinions in the end.
In other words, Iraq has improved 1000% while Russia has gotten worse by a few percent. Even with the sectarian violence…..
If violence if the excuse, then don’t forget Chechnya….
And all this is a tangent from the main point: Nobody wants a democracy Iraq-style with bombings, beheadings, and assorted sectarian violence.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pmI love it when Bush tells Putin that, ” In America, we have open and transparent Government.”
I wish Putin would counter with “BULL !! You filthy liar!!”
We have a press that’s about as controlled as PRAVDA or Al Jezzera and the most secretive and dishonest government that we have ever experienced as a nation. Can’t say that Russia is much better, but I also can’t say we are much better than Russia. It’s like listening to TweetleDee and TweetleDumb argu over the meaning of Democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pm- Seixon:
Last time you made a joke about someone calling my family’s home.
LIE (I know…big surprise, right?). The joke was about you being dishonest and ‘melting down’…a joke you prove to be accurate every time you post.
Now you’re making a joke about the fact that at least one ex-CIA agent has been riding my ass for writing about certain subjects.
The only joke here is your ridiculously overinflated estimation of your own importance, and your pathetic persecution complex. And they call us ‘moonbats’…sheesh.
Would you make a joke out of me getting shot as well? Geez.
Well, OK…I’ll give it a shot:
How’s that?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:54 pmkitchensinkwmd,
The sad part is that Iraq’s freedom of press is nearly that of Russia’s right now even though journalists there are targeted due to sectarian violence. It’s pretty sad that Russia is even being compared to Iraq at all.
None of you see that simple fact because you’re too busy jumped up on BDS.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:54 pmallright, seixon has rested–as much flip flopping as he has done in the last few posts, i dont blame him a bit! im glad we all agree that russia has a freer press than iraq. now, let’s turn to the issue of why this war is such an abysmal failure, and how that has led to america’s loss of respect and credibility on the world stage, as exemplified by Bush getting punked by the ex KGB agent.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:54 pmSeixon did his magical removing words trick again.
This is what Seixon wrote that Putin said:
This is what Putin really said:
Don’t try and put words in other peoples mouths, especially when we have a transcript and video right up there. ^^^^^^
July 15th, 2006 at 2:55 pmSeixon has just clearly shown the kind of fuzzy math that he and his Bush loving brothers use to prove the “successes” of Republican fiscal policies. My god, Jethro Bodine would make a great advisor, or at least a great spin doctor for the GOP. Naught plus naught equals naught. Now let’s do some guzinta’s.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:55 pmWhat I don’t get is why Bush says we are bringing democracy to Iraq. Democracy is a form of government where the people make the choices. If Iraq were a true democracy, the US would be out of Iraq because over three quarters of all Iraqis would choose to have us out of their country. Or maybe all the polls are wrong, just like all the exit polls in the 2004 election.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:57 pmAt Wikipedia, at the entry for “Doofus”, they need to put Bush right next to George Allen, who is already there.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:58 pmSeixon did his magical removing words trick again.
unfair–that’s just cause his case was getting tired, and needed resting!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:58 pmTripMaster,
The joke was about you being dishonest and ‘melting down’…a joke you prove to be accurate every time you post.
Yes, I was commenting on someone smearing me and threatening to publish my phone number, and you made a joke out of it. Not very considerate.
The only joke here is your ridiculously overinflated estimation of your own importance, and your pathetic persecution complex. And they call us ‘moonbats’…sheesh.
Persecution complex? Just look at this thread for crying out loud. It’s delusional what you are saying right now. I have a wide array of people who attack and smear me here all the time, when when I point it out, you try to make me sound like I’m making it up. Not to mention someone posting here that they were going to post pictures of me molesting a little boy on the internet.
Yet here you are again taking little jabs at me.
Seixon has demonstrated an almost superhuman ability to miss the point.
Ah yes, such as the point that Russia’s freedom of press has gotten worse since 2002 while Iraq’s has improved? Uh huh.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:58 pmBush wants there to be a World War III, and he wants to be the leader of the “Christian Armyâ€.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:00 pmThere is no other way to interpret what is going on.
Since the beginning of his Presidential aspirations, Bush has proclaimed that God has chosen him specifically to lead the world, because he will do great things. Bush has also stated that he likes to talk in code words, especially to the evangelicals in his support base.
Yesterday, when asked a very intelligent and detailed question about the ramifications about the multifront war erupting in the Middle East, Bush replied “I thought you were going to ask me about the pigâ€. Bush mentioned “pig†as many times as he possibly could during the press conference, which was dominated by the violent events of the Middle East. It’s obvious why Bush kept mentioning a pig during this press conference, as attested by the way that the right wing extremists are rejoicing at Bush’s use of the word.
It’s another Bush code word for “Slaughter them Muslimsâ€.
Bush is an “End Timerâ€.
He’s deluded himself into believing that he’s God’s man, chosen to lead the Christian Army against all Evil.
He wants to be the man who brings on the Rapture. This is why instead of trying to defuse the Middle East powder keg, Bush has always chosen to throw gasoline at it instead.
He’s sick, twisted and brain damaged from all of the cocaine and whiskey.
It’s time for someone to bring up the 25th Amendment.
Bush was talking about progress, and there has been progress in Iraq which there hasn’t been in Russia. Putin laughs this off, just like all of you. Pathetic.-Seixon
There’s been progress in Iraq, sure. Unfortunately, it’s been far outweighed by just about everything else that’s going on. As I posted earlier, there are simply much better examples to hold up as countries with strong democracies and free presses. You can’t deny that.
Right now, the plausbility of success is directly proportional to American willingness to not back out.-Giacomo
No, it’s not. It’s directly proportional to American ability to effect posting, lasting change in the country. Under the current US and DOD leadership, this does not seem plausible. If we do not develop a concrete plan for dealing with the sectarian violence and blossoming civil war, and do so quickly, it won’t matter how long we stay.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:00 pm“…… Now look here Pootin’ boy……. I’m a real live Merican “fantasy prostitute”.
For the right price, I’ll be whatever my supporters want me to be:
Bible thumpin’ Christian…. you got it.
Gun totin’ right-wing Macho, “Bring-em-on” shoot-em’ up… I’m yer’ Mano-a-Mano.
Defender of the Gawd’ almighty dollar…. you can count on me Pootie.
Homophobic paranoid gay basher…. give me the club and I’ll beat em’ like a seal pup.
All you gotta’ do is pay me to play baby….just pay me to play!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmhey seixon, your case is exhausted! ya gotta let it rest a little more! see, we havent forgotten that you said iraq had a freer press than russia! and that case is “tired”. in fact, it has flies crawling on it! let it rest in peace!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmSpudge_Boy,
Wow, sorry I didn’t paraphrase Putin exactly, it doesn’t change anything. What I wrote him having said has the exact same meaning as what you wrote. Talk about nitpicking.
Zeke,
So you think comparing Russia and Iraq according to the same expectations is sane? Do you think it’s a good thing for Russia to be in a statistical dead heat with violent Iraq in press freedom? Sheesh you guys are out there.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmHow can anyone take Bush seriously? How can the media cover this man with any sense of professionalism and give credence to what this half-baked individual has to say. No wonder the European press is more professional than ours!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmSeixon
From 2003, the most publicised war ever to 2005, from your own data:
2003:
Iraq: 37.50
2004:
Iraq: 58.50
11 point shift away from a free press, and already worst then Russia
2005:
Iraq: 67
8.50 shift away from a free press.
so based on that, if it continues going along those lines, the difference this year is probably not going to make it all that much progress on having a free press. You can’t gloat about a result which is getting worse each year.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:02 pmWell…it’s a little ironic i think…that an exchange between Putin and Bush would underscore, so accurately, the reality of The NEW COLD WAR…which just so happens to be RIGHT HERE in the good Ol U.S. of A.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pmThe NEW COLD WAR I speak of..is in fact a COLD CIVIL WAR. What would happen if we were standing on either side of a picket line..with an individual so full of rage as “seixon” or “giacomo”…you know what? It would be..really ugly…violent…what is keeping this ‘COLD’ Civil War from Heating up? A particularly hot day? a Crisis like Katrina? I don’t know…but it definately seems to me that the “line in the sand” is more crowded than ever.
I am also surprised that these Bush Lovers tend to forget that Bush cannot even abide by the very laws he himself signs into use, that he has lied, cheated and Stolen to and from the American People. I think we should begin to “descriminate” against these Bush Lovers…in the work-force..in Public places….show them the reality of fascism.
The supporters of the Corporate Fascist Theocracy are so deluded..it’s more about “winning” than it is about actual politics, or policy….or Democracy…they HAVE to win…like these so-called “christians” as someone posted above..”the Super patriot Christ..” yeah right…it’s the Ralph Reed syndrome…just win..at all costs..
What is “seixon” doing here? is a good question…he just HAS to win..he is SO angry…and WHY? his “side” is in total control…so why is he so angry? Can there be NO dissent? he obviously cannot tolerate Dissent..which is the watch word of the C.F.T..”if you are not WITH us..then you are AGAINST us…” ahhh..yes..yes…the Cold Civil War…
ort Utility Vehicle Politics…just roll up your windows, and roll over the other guy…don’t stop for pedestrians…just speed through the neighborhoods..no regard..no concern..unless someone dares to get in your way…then WATCH OUT!
I think too..it is important to remind everyone..that these people..Bush and Co. and the rabid supporters…are the same people who..foamed at the mouth about “blacks” voting, Integration, these are the rabid “blissed out” individuals who you can see buring Elvis records, and attacking civil rights marchers…remeber that many of those same people are only in their 50’s and 60’s right now…and they have NOT CHANGED…and why this is not stated more often is a mystery…
don’t forget to duck…and watch out for that really hot day, when the air-conditioning goes down for a few day’s…the situation my just……heat up..
i usually post at eschaton, but i just came over here for a bit. the trolls are very similar everywhere, it seems. phony “facts”, flawed arguments, goalpost moving. is there some kind of school?
July 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pmSomebody check Seixon’s diaper. He’s getting whiny and cranky again. Probably needs a fresh nappy, and maybe a little powder on his hynie.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pmim glad we all agree that russia has a freer press than iraq.
Comment by kitchensinkwmds — July 15, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
Yes, I agree. Whatever the reason, whatever the trend, that’s what the evidence seems to point to
(…)and how that has led to america’s loss of respect and credibility on the world stage, as exemplified by Bush getting punked by the ex KGB agent.
I agree. I think it is embarrassing that even a authoritarian ruler like Putin can crack a joke and dismiss Pres Bush’s opinion -for all the world to see and hear.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmFor Bush to make such a statement shows how ignorant and arrogant that man is.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmMyself I think he is INSANE to say the least.
DrSinker,
There’s been progress in Iraq, sure. Unfortunately, it’s been far outweighed by just about everything else that’s going on. As I posted earlier, there are simply much better examples to hold up as countries with strong democracies and free presses. You can’t deny that.
The fact that even Iraq, with all its faults, comes out similarly to Russia shows that Russia has some deep problems with freedom. Of course Bush would use Iraq as an example, his legacy will be built on Iraq. It’s quite hilarious that none of you will own up to the fact that Bush actually had a point.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmAt Wikipedia, at the entry for “Doofusâ€, they need to put Bush right next to George Allen, who is already there.
Comment by Slow & Cumbersome
True - but, if you do a google search for “failure” good ol’ GW is the first hit returned! (been that way for quite some time now! hahaha)
July 15th, 2006 at 3:05 pmoh oh it’s starting to use fuzzy math again! i bet statistical dead heat will soon have quotation marks around it, to separate it from “facts”.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:05 pmWe all know democracy cannot be imposed–that is the difference between what happened in our early history as a country and what is happening now in Iraq. We were fighting for our independence from the government imposed on us by England; Iraqis are fighting for their independence from the government we are imposing on them. If Bush really wanted Iraq’s independence and “democracy”, he would leave Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:06 pmBruce,
so based on that, if it continues going along those lines, the difference this year is probably not going to make it all that much progress on having a free press. You can’t gloat about a result which is getting worse each year.
Was I gloating? I simply pointed out the fact that, even with everything going on in Iraq, it has improved since from before the war while Russia has actually gotten worse in the same time period. Whether the press freedom in Iraq will go up or down for 2006 is something we will have to wait and see. We can expect Russia’s to probably worsen slightly again this year.
The fact that Iraq had a better freedom of the press in 2003 than Russia did should alarm anyone as to the problems in Russia. Well, except for all of you, that is.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:07 pmNo nitpicking. You changed Putin words to try and make a point. You see, you shouldn’t be “paraphrasing” you should be quoting. You intentionally took the time to type in what you wanted Putin to say, rather than scrolling to the top of the page. selcting the Putin quote, copying it and pasting it into your post. It would take a lot less time to copy and paste the quote, but that is not what you wanted to do. You intentionally changed the quote by paraphrasing.
That is the problem with you Bushies. You people don’t quote anything. You make shit up by paraphrasing. And it is our job to correct you, which we will do everytime. You want to call it nitpicking. We call it THE TRUTH.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:08 pmannodomini,
We were fighting for our independence from the government imposed on us by England; Iraqis are fighting for their independence from the government we are imposing on them. If Bush really wanted Iraq’s independence and “democracyâ€, he would leave Iraq.
Yeah, those 11 million Iraqis sure did fight against the government we imposed on them. Uh huh. Keep the dream alive buddy. You’re basically taking the side of the 30,000 militants that want Iraq to return to the glory days of dictatorship. Screw the 11 million that voted in the election, right? It’s all about the wishes of those 30,000 militants.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pmOh my god MrTimPA, I thought you were kidding about the “failure” google. I just did it and you’re right, the first thing to pop up was George W. Bush! It would be fricken hillarious if it weren’t so fricken sad and true!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pmNew Truism:
Republican Right = Science Wrong