Putin Jabs Bush: ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’
Putin Jabs Bush: ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’
During a press conference today at the G8 summit in Russia, President Bush told President Vladimir Putin that Americans want Russia to develop a free press and free religion “like Iraq.” To laughter and applause, Putin responded: “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.” CNN’s Ed Henry called it a “tough jab.” Watch it:
The exchange underscores how the war in Iraq has damaged the standing of the United States, to the point where even modest encouragement for democratic reform is met with ridicule.
Full transcript:
BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.
PUTIN: We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.
BUSH: Just wait.
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Preznit Clueless, the head of state from the planet BizarroWorld.
<*SHEESH*>
Will somone give him a BJ so we can impeach him already?
Cheers,
July 15th, 2006 at 1:03 pmWhat an embarrassment to us….Bush is pResident because Diebold, et al, own our democracy. Eat some more pig, George.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pmYep, its words like those that are so reassuring to the rest of the world.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pmIn fact who wants to be like America is the real question – Nobody i know
July 15th, 2006 at 1:09 pmWhat a dumbass Bush is. He just got the smack dab on International TV.
Too bad our own Democrats don’t have the balls Vladmir Putin has.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:10 pmThe next time he visits Russia, W will have to take the bubble along.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:14 pmBush: “Just wait.” Putin should’ve shot back, “Bring it on!” Seriously, I never thougth in my lifetime I’d see a former head of the KGB mocking our president in public and I’d laugh at his skewering.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:16 pmPutin’s certainly coming up with the zinger’s these days, no? His comment regarding Cheney’s remark was also classic.
At the end of the day, the sad reality is that we appear to win the award for “Dumbest Leader”. Great.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:17 pmThat is what happens when you send a fool to do a man’s job. The dumb SOB probably doesn’t know he was “dissed.” When Turd Blossom tells him he will have Cheney leak that Stalin and Lenin were lovers.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:17 pmPutin should call Bush a murdering fascist to his face! I would love to see Bush go ballistic in public, and look like a kid throwing a tantrum, because he got called a name > lol.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:21 pmThink Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.
What next? All in the name of anti-Bush. Disgusting.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:23 pmwhenever I see Bush with Putin, I remember when Bush met Putin, and declared he had looked into his eyes, gotten a sense of his soul, and could see he (Putin) was trustworthy http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1392791.stm
maybe Bush got that one wrong…I hope we have stopped making foreign policy decisions based on looking into the souls of world leaders
July 15th, 2006 at 1:24 pmIts about time someone put our great leader in his proper place, at the end of the line. The man is a disaster, and still, 35% of the people in this country support him? His support level should be no more than 2-3%, but of course, there are more idiots than that in this country.
Iraq is a disaster. This country is a disaster, especially the economy which bush extolled just the other day. Since then, the people who know what is going on, have driven the Dow down 400 points. Oh yeah Georgie Porgie, the economy is in great shape.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:25 pmThink Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.-Seixon
You can’t disagree that Iraq represents something fairly poor to hold up as the model for a democracy right now. You don’t think there are better examples?
July 15th, 2006 at 1:26 pmThe funny part is that everyone is laughing even though what Bush said is true: the press in Iraq is more free than it is in Russia.
Only anti-Bush dupes would ignore that and fall for Putin’s obvious hollow retort.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pm[...] Source…. « Valerie Wilson Press Conference [...]
July 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pmYou can’t disagree that Iraq represents something fairly poor to hold up as the model for a democracy right now. You don’t think there are better examples?
The press in Iraq is more free than in Russia. Obviously Putin had to take a cheap shot instead of just admitting the fact. That’s what’s funny here.
Ha ha ha, the Russian press is less free than in the “disasterous” Iraq, ha ha ha, everyone laugh with me, ha ha ha.
LOL
July 15th, 2006 at 1:28 pmYes, Russia’s press is less free than Iraq’s. But I don’t think Putin’s comment was about the press. I think it was about the MASSIVE CIVIL WAR that is RIPPING IRAQ TO PIECES.
Only PRO-BUSH DUPES would be able to miss that subtle point.
**
July 15th, 2006 at 1:31 pmSeixon: “Think Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.” You’re nothing if not predictable, Seixon. But then, you’re taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush. If you can’t see the lines blurring between these two men, you’re in a presbyopia bubble too.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:32 pmSeixon, taking the side of the anti-democrtic Bush.
What Next? All in the name of sucking on George Bush’s asshole, Typical.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:33 pmDr. Sinker – ignore Seixon, he’s only here for the negative attention. If he’s deprived of that here, he might have to go out and meet real people instead of spending all night on his computer.
Free Religion in Iraq? Iraq has a State-sponsored Religion (Islam) in its Constitution!
Free Press in Iraq? You mean the free press we pay to print in our propaganda? (Oh, I almost forgot, this Administration does that here, too!)
July 15th, 2006 at 1:34 pmIraq’s press is free….to print the stories provided by the United STates Department of Defense.
Sorry Seixon, you loose again. try something else.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:35 pmMoron in chief…
So Red Neck America – Are you not embarrassed yet? Or are you still to dumb? OK, more time is needed I see.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:35 pmThis just shows again that Bush ISas stupid as he seems.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:36 pmSeixon, what are doing here? Don’t you have some heavy petting with Joe Lieberman scheduled on your time away from the playground?
In winger world they could make fun of President Clinton all the time, in winger world though, any jabs at Bush are made, in the words of Odious Joe Lieberman “at our nations peril”.
Suck it up Siexon, you backed a loser.
-GSD
July 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pmMy mama said stupid is as stupid does.
And Bush does.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pmDr. Sinker – ignore Seixon, he’s only here for the negative attention.-BnF
I know. I think mostly he’s just sorry that more people don’t post over on his own blog. TP commenters >> Seixon commenters.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:39 pmAmerica, from world superpower to international laughing stock. Just add powdered Chimpy and watch the credibility dissappear!
-GSD
July 15th, 2006 at 1:40 pmWhat an asshole! Everyone in the world laughs at him. Except the 30% of Americans who think the Earth is flat and Bush is God.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:42 pmYou can’t have a free press if the country is both occupied and in the midst of a sadistic civil war, as Iraq is, despite American media and political claims to the opposite.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:42 pm“Think Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.”
And you are taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWhich is even worse given the fact that Bush has done much more damage to the rest of the world than Putin.
BADA-BING! Prez’dent Jerkowicz!
July 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pmI remember when Putin was on 60 Minutes II early last year, he also couldn’t resist a dig at Bush by implying that he was made President not through any democratic process but through our Supreme Court. Sure, Putin sucks at solving hostage negotiations and rescuing his own sailors but he’s got George Bush pegged and occasionally zings him with a candor that’s nonetheless quite refreshing.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pmSay what you will about Presidenr Putin, at least he conducts himself with a style one would expect from a head of state.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pmYour President on the other hand…has five fingers.
Kind regards
You can’t disagree that Iraq represents something fairly poor to hold up as the model for a democracy right now.
Perhaps, but consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War). It’s not as though Dictator to Democracy is a nice flowing transition … it takes time, especially if there are those with belief systems strongly averse to a free democracy. Bush walked into that one, but Putin’s “great bear” is shameful along the metrics Bush was comparing. Given this (not to mention the way Russia responds to terrorism … hint – far more harshly than the USA) I would think progressives would find Putin far more distasteful than Bush. That is unless their ignorant … then I understand.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pmUnfortunately, Putin is correct. Bush has no right lecturing anybody on democracy. He has hundreds of examples both here and abound – Iraq/Afghanistan that prove that he does not understand a democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:49 pmFree press, Iraq has a free press? Since shen? I hear that they must print what is doled out to them by the military or they are bombed out of business.
I say free Iraq by getting the hell out of there. Any person with any sense at all can see it is a failure and that by leaving we will indeed be FREEING IRAQ.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:50 pmpreaching religious freedom and human rights to Putin lacks credibility when Bush does it. i’m sure Putin just wanted to roll his eyes.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:53 pmSay what you will about Presidenr Putin, at least he conducts himself with a style one would expect from a head of state.
Yeah … what you see is not what you get. His public style not withstanding, he’s shown himself to be under-handed and duplicitous. Would you prefer the individual who appears to like and agree with you to one who is upfront about believing neither? Not me.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:54 pmA free Iraqi press? Lol… It’s well documented that the U.S. military continues to pay for publishing propaganda in Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:55 pmThat could be ominous.
Is he saying, just wait until we are done in Iraq, or just wait Putin, we’ll get to you next – you will have the same ’style’ democracy as Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:56 pmGiacomo misses the point. The point isn’t if we would prefer Putin or Bush. The point is that we have had several opportunities to get it right in Iraq and we have fumbled the ball at every turn. That’s the point. If we would have given contract to Iraqis instead of KBR. If we would have embraced the Sunnis as Iraqis instead as criminals. if we would have not dismissed the Army or all Bathists. If, IF, IF then Iraq would not be the war torn world that it is now. That’s the point!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 1:56 pmSeixon:
With pom poms in hand,I welcome you back.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:57 pmThis thread is gonna get HOT.
I predict upward of 400 posts.
Oh man you guys are dupes. Of course Putin redirected to the violence in Iraq when he was faced with the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia. It’s the type of bullshit you goons do all the time when I and other bring up inconvenient facts.
I bring up the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia, and suddenly I have almost a half dozen people personally attacking me.
I don’t know why Bush brought up religion though, that was pretty dumb. Most Russians are atheists.
Badmoodman: “But then, you’re taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush.”
Spudge_Boy: “Seixon, taking the side of the anti-democrtic Bush.”
Yeah, I’m the one who’s predictable, LOL. Isn’t this where you guys offer to go live in Russia since it’s so much more democratic than the US? Come on, do it. Put your money where your mouth is.
Here’s some more predictability:
Briseadh na Faire : “You mean the free press we pay to print in our propaganda?”
Spudge_Boy: “Iraq’s press is free….to print the stories provided by the United STates Department of Defense.”
LOL. It’s almost like you guys are reading from a script! Hmmm. What script would that be? Think Progress, do you guys know? What, you guys provide a script every day? Huh, imagine that.
Way to take generalize anecdotes, while covering for Putin’s ass, the guy who has controlled Russian media with the state. God you guys hate Bush, you can’t even deal with simple facts without trying to attack the facts with BS.
DrSinker,
I know. I think mostly he’s just sorry that more people don’t post over on his own blog. TP commenters >> Seixon commenters.
Yeah, I’m also very jealous that George Soros doesn’t bankroll my blog, not to mention a former Clinton Chief of Staff.
It’s funny that you guys think comparing my blog to Think Progress is even a valid or relevant topic. LOL.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:57 pmFree press, Iraq has a free press? Since shen? I hear that they must print what is doled out to them by the military or they are bombed out of business.
Think Progress – where facts don’t matter.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:58 pmPerhaps, but consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War). It’s not as though Dictator to Democracy is a nice flowing transition … it takes time, especially if there are those with belief systems strongly averse to a free democracy.-Giacomo
I agree. The problem, of course, is that this kind of timeframe was never suggested to the American public. One has to conclude that either Bush has not been honest and frank with the country or he is simply ignorant as well.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:58 pmfree press in Iraq…… HA HA HA HA you Americans dont want free press in Iraq you have shot and killed 65 as a warning to journalists to stay out HAHAHAHAHA
July 15th, 2006 at 2:00 pmWhen you don’t win, you “lose,” you do not “loose.” Also: “Or are you still to dumb? OK, more time is needed I see.” (the correct word in that context is too , not “to”)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pmalso blown up aljazeeras head offices in 3 countries …Bush is pathetic
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pmIf, IF, IF then Iraq would not be the war torn world that it is now. That’s the point!!!
Comment by ecthompson — July 15, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
Under your ‘correct’ solution …
The Kurds would still pursue establishing Kurdistan – hardly pro-Irai
The Shia would still pursue broader Shia ‘community’ – Iran.
The Sunni would still be without oil.
Any intervention will split off the Kurds and destablize the region – vis Turkey – and the southern Shia – vis Iran.
Any intervention ends the post WWI fiction of the state of Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pmIt’s funny that you guys think comparing my blog to Think Progress is even a valid or relevant topic. LOL.-Seixon
I didn’t realize the bankroll was what made this site so popular. If only it were that simple.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:02 pmThe invasion of Iraq was never about democracy. Democracy and the “war on terror” are simply the cover stories to war profiteering and looting foreign nationals of their natural resources – chiefly oil and gas. The Dumbya dictatorship is a criminal regime – it criminally acquired power and it criminally manifests its policy to the detriment of the organic development of true democratic republics and indigenous people’s control over their own resources.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:02 pmWow, you haven’t been hear in a long time.
None of us worship Putin or think he is great. We just think it is about time that somebody told the truth about Iraq. It is failing. It is not getting better. It is getting worse. It is okay, you can go aheaad and admit that. Remember admittance is the first step to recovery.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:03 pmPutin Slaps Bush Around…
All my wife had to say about this video (which you must absolutely watch) was “beautiful.”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:04 pmIn it, Putin really makes Bush look like a fool. It’s classic.
Think Progress has more.
…
I think it’s great that President Vladimir Putin made his feelings on the situation in Iraq known publicly for President Bush and all the world to hear, instead of behind close doors…
More politicans should put honesty before politics in conducting effective and open diplomacy for their constituents and their country… maybe then more of us would vote.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:08 pmPutin handed Bush his AZZ!!!
EVERYTHING, from the STOLEN ELECTION in 2000, to the outing of a CIA spy for POLITICAL REVENGE (which blew the cover of Brewster Jennings)
to LIES about WMD in Iraq
to SMEARS by the UBER-Jofef Goebbels, Karl “Bush’s Brain” Rove.
to wanting to attack Iran.
shows that the Bush, the PNAC, and the WHOLE
BushCrime (TM) family
are WAR CRIMINALS.
P.S. Let’s not forget “Republican Jesus”, who justifies GREED, HATE (Rush, Ann, Bill, Hann…) and KILLING of our fellow man.
Read Jesus’ General, J.C. Christian, PATRIOT.
By the way, I AM a Christian, a follower of Jesus’ Word. Bush and his TRAITORS have in NO WAY kept the Word of God or Jesus.
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
July 15th, 2006 at 2:08 pmYeah, I agree, because your little peice of shit blog, like my peice of shit blog is nowhere near as informative as Think Progress. I finally agree with you.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:09 pmPutin is the man. I can’t believe GWB didn’t see that coming what with all the “When I look into his eyes I see his soul” talk from just a few short years ago. GWB is a meat puppet and nothing more. I only have one question for the rest of the Americans out there…’Don’t you as an American feel a little ashamed and down right embarrassed to have such a fool for your president?’ I know most people associate with GWB and think he’s just like one of us but seriously people don’t you want someone a lot smarter and suave then you determining your countries future.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:10 pmIt is almost as if you can’t read, TP didn’t praise Putin over Bush. TP did not indicate that Russia is terrific democratic and free.
Reading is Fundamental
July 15th, 2006 at 2:12 pm(…)consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War).
Comment by Giacomo — July 15, 2006 @ 1:48 pm
This comparison is invalid. Upon gaining their independence, the US did not go through a period of open armed conflict where different factions were killing each other on the streets to gain control of the country.
Even the Civil War was not about gaining control but about seceding.
I would think progressives would find Putin far more distasteful than Bush. That is unless their ignorant … then I understand.
I think you are missing the point by such a long shot it’s not even funny.
The point is that “even modest encouragement for democratic reform is met with ridicule” thanks to the invasion, and ongoing conflict in Iraq. Who wants a democracy under those conditions?
I sure find Putin distasteful -but he made a good point.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:13 pmDrSinker,
I didn’t realize the bankroll was what made this site so popular. If only it were that simple.
No, I’m thinking being linked to a well-known liberal organization, and being run by Clintonistas is what makes it popular. I’m just a nobody with a blog. I’m not sure what is so fascinating in pointing out that my blog is not widely read as Think Progress. It would seem like a “DUH” moment for anyone.
As for press freedom in Iraq vs. Russia, Reporters Without Borders rated Iraq vs. Russia as follows for the past few years:
2003:
Iraq: 37.50
Russia: 49.50
2004:
Iraq: 58.50
Russia: 51.38
2005:
Iraq: 67
Russia: 48.67
Keep in mind that a lower number = more free.
3 year average for Iraq: 54
3 year average for Russia: 49.85
Wow.
Iraq was a under a dictator just 3 years ago, and is still undergoing sectarian violence, yet they have just about as free a press as Russia does.
The reasons for press freedom in Iraq vs. Russia are different as well, with the problems in Iraq being due to sectarian violence, whereas in Russia it is goverment meddling.
Even the United States press, in Iraq, has a better press freedom than in Russia (48.5 vs 48.67) LOL.
The United States press is rated at 9.50.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:14 pmSo, what? Putin is angling for Jay Leno’s job as his next career move?
He gives a whole new meaning to “the jokes just write themselves.”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:15 pmThe point isn’t if we would prefer Putin or Bush. The point is that we have had several opportunities to get it right in Iraq and we have fumbled the ball at every turn.
“Get it right” seems to be a scientifically dubious statement. Has any war/battle/invasion/engagment/skirmish ever gone “right” … what does “right” mean, anyway. Do we know it when we see it … did WWI go right … how about WWII … I’d say not. The “ends” were achieved, but much was very far from “right”. Do you think it possible that to a similar extent, a beneficial end (to the Iraqi people, to the US, to the world) can be achieved in Iraq … even in the absence of “getting it right”?
You list a host of “ifs” that are impossible to prove. The “ifs” can neither be accurate nor innaccurate … they are tools of convenience to the arguer. Things could’ve been “better”, things should’ve been “better” … they aren’t, so we now deal with the world we have … not the world we wish we had. Enjoying Putin’s snarky comment to Bush only makes one appear an ideologue … serious contrarians can recognize Bush’s faults without glorying in a “pile on” with a world leader who objectifies everything progressives stand against.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:15 pmSpudge_Boy,
When’s the last time some crazy cabal of political operatives called your house to dig up information on you because of your blog?
Cough.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:15 pmWow, you haven’t been hear in a long time.
I “troll” through from time to time ;-)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:16 pmI’m just a nobody with a blog.-Seixon
I’m glad you’re finally coming to your senses.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:16 pmHow pathetic. That is the problem with “staying the courseâ€. Bush’s talking points have not changed one iota even though the “war†in Iraq has gone from “Mission Accomplished†all the way down to “How the heck do we get out of here in one pieceâ€.
Staying on message appears “strong and resolute†in unchanging circumstance but when your house is burning down right where you stand, people think your are just being “stubborn†before calling you first, “out of touch†and then plain “stupid†like Putin just did. Bush should stop before he graduates to “certifiably insaneâ€.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:17 pmGWBHater:
GWB is a meat puppet and nothing more.
Nah! I’m sure there’s some sting bean in there somewhere.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:17 pmdrsinker, just think how such a sales pitch would have gone–hey, americans! listen up–instead of going after osama bin ladin, were going to spend trillions to try to create a democracy in iraq, which didnt attack us, and which might have some leftover wmds from the reagan administration that dont work anymore! the good news is–it might take less than 200 years! what a deat!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:18 pmGoes to show how much power the office of president has. One dipshit has made America into a joke.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:18 pmSeixon
You do realise that your figures show that Iraq has a less free press then Russia don’t you? (”lower number = more free”)
And more remarkably, that the press in Iraq has become significantly less free as a result of Bush’s war of “Liberation” in Iraq? I mean, what other conclusion can you take from the fact that according to your numbers, Iraq’s press has grown significantly less free from the start of the invasion.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:20 pmI bring up the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia, and suddenly I have almost a half dozen people personally attacking me.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
This is how you can tell Seixon makes up his facts as he goes:
Keep in mind that a lower number = more free.
3 year average for Iraq: 54
3 year average for Russia: 49.85
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:14 pm
So what you said was a fact is indeed not a fact.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmI get crazy e-mail and shit all the time too. Don’t think you are the only one.
Is that the real reason you are in Norway?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmPretty funny!!! President Clueless visits Russia and it takes Putin to Push ‘Dubya in his place.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmi love it, his post shows that russia’s press is freer, and he doesn’t even realize it! way to go, bushboy!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:22 pmI know Giacomo. You are one of the sane “trolls” I would take you anyday over some of the crazy fvckers we get in here.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:22 pmDo you think it possible that to a similar extent, a beneficial end (to the Iraqi people, to the US, to the world) can be achieved in Iraq … even in the absence of “getting it right�-Giacomo
The key question is not what’s possible, it’s what’s plausible. Right now, it does not seem plausible. Before we invaded, at least to me and several others here I suspect, it did not seem plausible.
The means also matter, in my opinion. The fact that we’re actively engaging in breaking the Geneva conventions is a huge pox mark on the US. We’ve lost a great deal of credibility as a result of this war and the “war on terror”.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:23 pmbut but but bruce gorton–it hasn’t been 200 years yet! just you wait, after another 150 years or so, iraq’s press could be freer! the march of democracy just takes a little time–a few weeks, maybe a couple months, or, what the heck, a millenium.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:24 pmBruce and Gregor,
Reporters without Borders is only one estimator, and you are completely leaving out the circumstances between Iraq and Russia. The fact that both countries are in a statistical dead heat over the past three years, while Iraq has sectarian violence and Russia does not, I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot here.
I will admit that my first statement of “fact” was probably a bit too strong, but only because I didn’t qualify it properly.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:24 pmseixon forgets that bushy says putin has a beautiful soul! and bushy is never wrong!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:25 pmwhoa, now seixon show us that if you lie about a fact, then put quotes around the word “fact”, then it isn’t a lie anymore. nice going!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:26 pmWhat a sad state of affairs when one has to agree with Mr. Putin, the leader of Russia! Everywhere this excuse for a president goes he sticks his foot in his mouth and leaves this nation the laughing stock of the world! He is a national disgrace and it is significant that many of our international friends, and those that were our friends, see him for what he is. Yet, we still have a significant percentage of the American people that “just don’t get it” with this man. Were it for a lack of evidence, it could be understood. But, it is painfully obvious from the news, and testimony of others involved, as to where this man is taking this nation. Yet, it appears that the American people, congress, and the courts continue to allow this to go on with practically no resistance. How sad!!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pmI doubt that Russia would appreciate a “free press” or “free religion” that currently exists in the Untide States of Bush for that matter.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pm40,000 U.S. troops in Iraq through 2016? A new CBO report, not widely available to the public (but SSA has it), puts forth that scenario
Only on SSA Blog
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
Notice Bush didn’t present free press in America as an example to follow.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pm…consider how long it took the US democracy to cement … anyone know … some say 12 years, some say 24 (some say it didn’t happen until post Civil War). /em>
I don’t know how long our country took to “cement” but I do know that Americans weren’t killing one another in large numbers everyday prior to coming together in a funcioning country. By no stretch of the drugged or sober imagination can Iraq be called a democracy when the exercise of the most basic freedoms can result in being murdered.
The strong possibility for sectarian violence always existed in Iraq. While it is possible (a small possibility) that allowing Iraqis to rebuild their own country and retaining the Iraqi army would have resulted in a more stable country, the fact that there were sectarian divisions and that Iraqis had no experience in self-government should have put off any sane person from invading and attempting to impose a “plan” for order. Of course, in the eyes of the rest of the world, invading a sovereign nation that has not attacked us was illegal and immoral.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pmSpudge_Boy,
With ex-CIA agents riding my ass, I guess I’ll say it’s probably a good thing that I am in Norway. E-mail is not the same thing as a phone call. Anyone can email, that doesn’t take any guts or even compromising yourself at all. Making a phone call is totally different.
kitchensinkwmds,
Relatively speaking, Iraq has a more free press than Russia does. Iraq has gone from 79 in 2002 to 67 in 2005. Russia has gone from 48 in 2002 to… 48.67 in 2005.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:29 pmReporters without Borders is only one estimator, and you are completely leaving out the circumstances between Iraq and Russia.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:24 pm
So now you are willing to take the word of international organisations?
Why do you believe Reporters without Borders on democracy in Iraq, but not Physicians for Human Rights on what constitutes torture?
The fact that both countries are in a statistical dead heat over the past three years, while Iraq has sectarian violence and Russia does not, I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot here.
I am not -you did: You provided the figures that debunked your previous statement. In fact, you can see how Iraq’s index has gone up (for worse) since the beginning of the invasion. Hardly an endorsement of Iraq’s freedom of the press.
I will admit that my first statement of “fact†was probably a bit too strong, but only because I didn’t qualify it properly.
Seixon admitting to an error? wow… I wonder what is the temperature in hell right now…
July 15th, 2006 at 2:30 pmTigris Lily,
Notice Bush didn’t present free press in America as an example to follow.
Might be because that would have been too damn obvious of an example…
July 15th, 2006 at 2:30 pmWhoops!! Another BUSHISM ……. I cannot laugh anymore, I am beginning to cry outloud for HELP !! but no one is listening …
July 15th, 2006 at 2:31 pmGeorge “Dick C.”Bush is at it again … OH my !!
In the meantime as he speaks our Constitution is being shredded … maybe to match the democracy in IRAQ .. As Putin eludes to when he says he is not interested…
- Seixon:
With ex-CIA agents riding my ass, I guess I’ll say it’s probably a good thing that I am in Norway.
Yeah, I know how you feel. The Men in Black visit me every other week.
I knew before that your egotism was out of control, but this is beyond the pale.
Seixon, do yourself a favor and get over yourself. The rest of us have.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:34 pmRelatively speaking, Iraq has a more free press than Russia does. Iraq has gone from 79 in 2002 to 67 in 2005. Russia has gone from 48 in 2002 to… 48.67 in 2005.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
I don’t see any “relatively” here – that (according to the numbers) Russia’s press rating has remained essentially contant and Iraq’s press, while “more free” is still not as free as Russia’s.
When you’re in stuck in a hole, you might want to stop digging.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:34 pmThat is because I don’t let my information get out there. You should keep your personal information under tighter wraps. G. :)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:36 pmFreedom of the press in Iraq… WTF?! Do none of you trolls happen to remember when the newpaper “al-Hawza” was ordered to shut down by the U.S. military (March 29, 2004)?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:37 pmI know it was ever so long ago, but gosh there were these massive protests and I’m almost sure it was reported upon.
Gregor,
I only gave RWB as an example. If you have any other indicators of press freedom, feel free to chime in. In fact, RWP might not be the best one there is. As for RWB vs. Physicians for Human Rights, RWB’s numbers come from journalists, whereas PHR just states their own opinions.
You provided the figures that debunked your previous statement. In fact, you can see how Iraq’s index has gone up (for worse) since the beginning of the invasion. Hardly an endorsement of Iraq’s freedom of the press.
Yes, the figures from RWB seem to indicate that there is less press freedom in Iraq right now than in Russia, but in 2003 that was not the case. Iraq has gotten worse, and that is due to the sectarian violence. Even so, Iraq has improved 10 points since 2002, whereas Russia has gotten slightly worse. In other words, Iraq has improved 1000% while Russia has gotten worse by a few percent. Even with the sectarian violence…..
Seixon admitting to an error? wow… I wonder what is the temperature in hell right now…
I always do when I make one. In fact, I’m the one who looked up the figures that debunked my original claim, although I’m not sure that other estimators would show the same thing as RWB. I’m going to see if the UN has one as well.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:37 pmyes, you should have qualified your first statement of fact by putting quotation marks around the word “fact”. this would alert readers to the “fact” that you really meant “something im just pulling out of thin air that may not be true”.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:38 pmThis comparison is invalid. Upon gaining their independence, the US did not go through a period of open armed conflict where different factions were killing each other on the streets to gain control of the country.
Well … much of the first 8 years or so was war with Great Britain. The Washington Presidency was relatively smooth, but I’d refer you to the Jefferson (with Arron Burr as the outcast VP) presidency as extremely polarized … they did indeed kill one another (to very much gain control of the country) but not in a comparable way to Iraq.
I agree the comparison is not perfect … but the eraly US was violent and extremely partisan … it seems the Republican and Democrats (the Federalists and the Republicans) hammered out our democracy with much political unrest. The populace was almost as fractured. That’s all I was saying … it takes time ….
July 15th, 2006 at 2:39 pmWe’re all forgetting that when you’re washing Bush’s balls like Seixon’s trying here, you almost always need to make shit up. In this case, we’re told that DOWN is UP. Is it any wonder that most of these folks can’t grasp global warming, stem-cell research, or “insert anything scientific”?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:39 pmanother fun fact–the moon is falling into the sun! oh wait, i should have qualified that statement by the appropriate use of quotation mark around the word fact! my bad!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:40 pmbut drsinker–you must realize, that, by some accounts, “down” is “relatively” “higher” than “up”! see?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:41 pmAccording to this statement, they are exactly the same.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:42 pmTripMaster,
Seixon, do yourself a favor and get over yourself. The rest of us have.
Last time you made a joke about someone calling my family’s home. Now you’re making a joke about the fact that at least one ex-CIA agent has been riding my ass for writing about certain subjects. Would you make a joke out of me getting shot as well? Geez.
kitchensinkwds et al,
So the expectation of press freedom is the same during war as it is during peace time? Zzzz…. That’s why I say “relatively” because no sane person would compare Russia and Iraq with the same standard. Not to mention that Iraq’s press freedom was much lower than Russia’s in 2003 before the sectarian violence took hold.
In other words, if there was no sectarian violence in Iraq, then Iraq’s press freedom would be much better than in Russia. 2003 proves it.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:43 pmway to move those goalposts seixon! im glad you back off your claim about iraq having a freer press! now youre arguing about why iraq’s press isn’t as free as russia’s press! nice flexibility!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:46 pmsomewhere a village is missing it’s idiot.
why did he have to be Preznit of the Unaaahted Staytes?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:46 pmyes, if there wasn’t a low grade civil war in iraq, things would be better! isn’t that special!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:47 pmPutin, Putin gave G;Gutless, W;WarMonger, B;Blameless
a hell of a Bootin’!
Only if our elected official had a spine!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmSeixon, you just moved tyhe goal post. I know how much you hate that, so I don’t think you should be doing that.
Vldmir Putin used the word “have” not “had” in his rip on Bush. We are talking about the present. Don’t move the goal posts.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmEven so, Iraq has improved 10 points since 2002, whereas Russia has gotten slightly worse. In other words, Iraq has improved 1000% while Russia has gotten worse by a few percent.-Seixon
How’s that shovel working out for you?
Going from 79 to 67 is a 12 point change, not 10. It shows an improvement of roughly 20%, not 1000. This is like high-school stuff.
Further, Iraq’s current trend is not good. This is due to sectarian violence? Do you think Bush realizes that sectarian violence is making the press in Iraq less free? Based on today’s comments, probably not.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmAlso, for those keeping score:
Sectarian Violence = Civil War
July 15th, 2006 at 2:49 pmFreedom of religion like in Iraq? You mean the freedom to systematically round up, torture and execute your neighbors because they are from a different sect of the SAME religion as yourself? I’m glad we don’t have that kind of freedom of religion here. The Southern Baptist would be out slaughtering the Episcopals and Unitarians in the streets.
Honestly, what is this man smoking?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:49 pmBush: “I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world like Iraq…”
Putin: “We certainly would not want to have the same type of democracy as Iraq.”
Russia has worsened 0.67 points in press freedom since 2002.
Iraq has gone up 10 points in press freedom since 2002.
I rest my case.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:50 pmSeriously, do people reall think that GWB is “just like one of us”? And want to associate with Bush as a pal? Hahahaaa…. Bush is Connecticut Yankee from Yale University pretending to be a good o’ boy, your “pal”? You gotta be a sucker!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:51 pmBorn with a silver spoon… GWB, a born non-achiever, is the Frontman-in-Chief & Cheerleader for Big Oil, Insurance, Pharmaceuticals, the War Profiteers Industry. Stop being sucked in by lies, sound bites and emotionally manipulative ads. Wake up, people!
Good for Putin. He’s only saying what other leaders around the world would love to say. He made Bush look like a damn fool! Which by the way is pretty easy to do. Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones! Bush threw the stone and Putin threw a brick back at him.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:51 pmThe key question is not what’s possible, it’s what’s plausible. Right now, it does not seem plausible. Before we invaded, at least to me and several others here I suspect, it did not seem plausible.
Plausability is very much in the eye of the beholder. It wasn’t plausible for the “patriots” to gain independence in the face of the “loyalists” and the greatest military on the known earth, but it happened. Right now, the plausbility of success is directly proportional to American willingness to not back out. I’m not sure how pulling troops out now serves anyone’s interests now … we must deal with things as they are. The Israelis pulled out of Gaza … did that withdrawal from “occupied territory” create peace … nope, the vacuum was filled by those who abhor peace. I think Iraq is analagous at this point.
The means also matter, in my opinion. The fact that we’re actively engaging in breaking the Geneva conventions is a huge pox mark on the US. We’ve lost a great deal of credibility as a result of this war and the “war on terrorâ€.
The means certainly matter … they must matter. I’m of the understanding that you’re making the “exceptions” into the “rule”. I’m sure you know military members who are of high quality and ethics … we can’t tarnish those (who are the majority) with the acts of the sadistic few.
In terms of official policy, I think Bush has retreated from that front substantially. You may disagree. Our world standing has certainly deteriorated … this is one part bumbling and one part convenience to those who already didn’t like us (remember back when many Europeans tried to say that we were no better than the USSR in the 80s and 90s). We may have bent over, but they were waiting to kick us in the rear. To state otherwise is to be ignorant of history.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:52 pmOh, sorry, 12 points. Heh.
Bush was talking about progress, and there has been progress in Iraq which there hasn’t been in Russia. Putin laughs this off, just like all of you. Pathetic.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:52 pmIf a free press means not being controlled by government then Iraq has a freer press than either Russia or the US because that government controlls nothing. And if Dick Cheney thought the G8 summit was important he wouldn’t have sent his puppet to make an ass of himself again.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pmHa ! Now that was a shot….Bush sounded so pathetic as usual with the “Just Wait”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pm(…)whereas PHR just states their own opinions.
Comment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
You seem to believe all opinions carry the same weight. They do not. There are opinions, then informed opinions, then educated opinions.
PHR are trained professionals in the medical field who have extensive experience working with, and treating people who have been tortured.
When you go to the doctor’s -do you feel personally qualified to challenge their opinion on what’s ailing you? Or how to treat it?
Same with RWB -they are qualified professionals whose index is the result of certain standards they think are a reflection of freedom of the press.
They are both educated opinions in the end.
In other words, Iraq has improved 1000% while Russia has gotten worse by a few percent. Even with the sectarian violence…..
If violence if the excuse, then don’t forget Chechnya….
And all this is a tangent from the main point: Nobody wants a democracy Iraq-style with bombings, beheadings, and assorted sectarian violence.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pmI love it when Bush tells Putin that, ” In America, we have open and transparent Government.”
I wish Putin would counter with “BULL !! You filthy liar!!”
We have a press that’s about as controlled as PRAVDA or Al Jezzera and the most secretive and dishonest government that we have ever experienced as a nation. Can’t say that Russia is much better, but I also can’t say we are much better than Russia. It’s like listening to TweetleDee and TweetleDumb argu over the meaning of Democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pm- Seixon:
Last time you made a joke about someone calling my family’s home.
LIE (I know…big surprise, right?). The joke was about you being dishonest and ‘melting down’…a joke you prove to be accurate every time you post.
Now you’re making a joke about the fact that at least one ex-CIA agent has been riding my ass for writing about certain subjects.
The only joke here is your ridiculously overinflated estimation of your own importance, and your pathetic persecution complex. And they call us ‘moonbats’…sheesh.
Would you make a joke out of me getting shot as well? Geez.
Well, OK…I’ll give it a shot:
How’s that?
July 15th, 2006 at 2:54 pmkitchensinkwmd,
The sad part is that Iraq’s freedom of press is nearly that of Russia’s right now even though journalists there are targeted due to sectarian violence. It’s pretty sad that Russia is even being compared to Iraq at all.
None of you see that simple fact because you’re too busy jumped up on BDS.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:54 pmallright, seixon has rested–as much flip flopping as he has done in the last few posts, i dont blame him a bit! im glad we all agree that russia has a freer press than iraq. now, let’s turn to the issue of why this war is such an abysmal failure, and how that has led to america’s loss of respect and credibility on the world stage, as exemplified by Bush getting punked by the ex KGB agent.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:54 pmSeixon did his magical removing words trick again.
This is what Seixon wrote that Putin said:
This is what Putin really said:
Don’t try and put words in other peoples mouths, especially when we have a transcript and video right up there. ^^^^^^
July 15th, 2006 at 2:55 pmSeixon has just clearly shown the kind of fuzzy math that he and his Bush loving brothers use to prove the “successes” of Republican fiscal policies. My god, Jethro Bodine would make a great advisor, or at least a great spin doctor for the GOP. Naught plus naught equals naught. Now let’s do some guzinta’s.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:55 pmWhat I don’t get is why Bush says we are bringing democracy to Iraq. Democracy is a form of government where the people make the choices. If Iraq were a true democracy, the US would be out of Iraq because over three quarters of all Iraqis would choose to have us out of their country. Or maybe all the polls are wrong, just like all the exit polls in the 2004 election.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:57 pmAt Wikipedia, at the entry for “Doofus”, they need to put Bush right next to George Allen, who is already there.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:58 pmSeixon did his magical removing words trick again.
unfair–that’s just cause his case was getting tired, and needed resting!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:58 pmTripMaster,
The joke was about you being dishonest and ‘melting down’…a joke you prove to be accurate every time you post.
Yes, I was commenting on someone smearing me and threatening to publish my phone number, and you made a joke out of it. Not very considerate.
The only joke here is your ridiculously overinflated estimation of your own importance, and your pathetic persecution complex. And they call us ‘moonbats’…sheesh.
Persecution complex? Just look at this thread for crying out loud. It’s delusional what you are saying right now. I have a wide array of people who attack and smear me here all the time, when when I point it out, you try to make me sound like I’m making it up. Not to mention someone posting here that they were going to post pictures of me molesting a little boy on the internet.
Yet here you are again taking little jabs at me.
Seixon has demonstrated an almost superhuman ability to miss the point.
Ah yes, such as the point that Russia’s freedom of press has gotten worse since 2002 while Iraq’s has improved? Uh huh.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:58 pmBush wants there to be a World War III, and he wants to be the leader of the “Christian Armyâ€.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:00 pmThere is no other way to interpret what is going on.
Since the beginning of his Presidential aspirations, Bush has proclaimed that God has chosen him specifically to lead the world, because he will do great things. Bush has also stated that he likes to talk in code words, especially to the evangelicals in his support base.
Yesterday, when asked a very intelligent and detailed question about the ramifications about the multifront war erupting in the Middle East, Bush replied “I thought you were going to ask me about the pigâ€. Bush mentioned “pig†as many times as he possibly could during the press conference, which was dominated by the violent events of the Middle East. It’s obvious why Bush kept mentioning a pig during this press conference, as attested by the way that the right wing extremists are rejoicing at Bush’s use of the word.
It’s another Bush code word for “Slaughter them Muslimsâ€.
Bush is an “End Timerâ€.
He’s deluded himself into believing that he’s God’s man, chosen to lead the Christian Army against all Evil.
He wants to be the man who brings on the Rapture. This is why instead of trying to defuse the Middle East powder keg, Bush has always chosen to throw gasoline at it instead.
He’s sick, twisted and brain damaged from all of the cocaine and whiskey.
It’s time for someone to bring up the 25th Amendment.
Bush was talking about progress, and there has been progress in Iraq which there hasn’t been in Russia. Putin laughs this off, just like all of you. Pathetic.-Seixon
There’s been progress in Iraq, sure. Unfortunately, it’s been far outweighed by just about everything else that’s going on. As I posted earlier, there are simply much better examples to hold up as countries with strong democracies and free presses. You can’t deny that.
Right now, the plausbility of success is directly proportional to American willingness to not back out.-Giacomo
No, it’s not. It’s directly proportional to American ability to effect posting, lasting change in the country. Under the current US and DOD leadership, this does not seem plausible. If we do not develop a concrete plan for dealing with the sectarian violence and blossoming civil war, and do so quickly, it won’t matter how long we stay.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:00 pm“…… Now look here Pootin’ boy……. I’m a real live Merican “fantasy prostitute”.
For the right price, I’ll be whatever my supporters want me to be:
Bible thumpin’ Christian…. you got it.
Gun totin’ right-wing Macho, “Bring-em-on” shoot-em’ up… I’m yer’ Mano-a-Mano.
Defender of the Gawd’ almighty dollar…. you can count on me Pootie.
Homophobic paranoid gay basher…. give me the club and I’ll beat em’ like a seal pup.
All you gotta’ do is pay me to play baby….just pay me to play!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmhey seixon, your case is exhausted! ya gotta let it rest a little more! see, we havent forgotten that you said iraq had a freer press than russia! and that case is “tired”. in fact, it has flies crawling on it! let it rest in peace!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmSpudge_Boy,
Wow, sorry I didn’t paraphrase Putin exactly, it doesn’t change anything. What I wrote him having said has the exact same meaning as what you wrote. Talk about nitpicking.
Zeke,
So you think comparing Russia and Iraq according to the same expectations is sane? Do you think it’s a good thing for Russia to be in a statistical dead heat with violent Iraq in press freedom? Sheesh you guys are out there.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmHow can anyone take Bush seriously? How can the media cover this man with any sense of professionalism and give credence to what this half-baked individual has to say. No wonder the European press is more professional than ours!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmSeixon
From 2003, the most publicised war ever to 2005, from your own data:
2003:
Iraq: 37.50
2004:
Iraq: 58.50
11 point shift away from a free press, and already worst then Russia
2005:
Iraq: 67
8.50 shift away from a free press.
so based on that, if it continues going along those lines, the difference this year is probably not going to make it all that much progress on having a free press. You can’t gloat about a result which is getting worse each year.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:02 pmWell…it’s a little ironic i think…that an exchange between Putin and Bush would underscore, so accurately, the reality of The NEW COLD WAR…which just so happens to be RIGHT HERE in the good Ol U.S. of A.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pmThe NEW COLD WAR I speak of..is in fact a COLD CIVIL WAR. What would happen if we were standing on either side of a picket line..with an individual so full of rage as “seixon” or “giacomo”…you know what? It would be..really ugly…violent…what is keeping this ‘COLD’ Civil War from Heating up? A particularly hot day? a Crisis like Katrina? I don’t know…but it definately seems to me that the “line in the sand” is more crowded than ever.
I am also surprised that these Bush Lovers tend to forget that Bush cannot even abide by the very laws he himself signs into use, that he has lied, cheated and Stolen to and from the American People. I think we should begin to “descriminate” against these Bush Lovers…in the work-force..in Public places….show them the reality of fascism.
The supporters of the Corporate Fascist Theocracy are so deluded..it’s more about “winning” than it is about actual politics, or policy….or Democracy…they HAVE to win…like these so-called “christians” as someone posted above..”the Super patriot Christ..” yeah right…it’s the Ralph Reed syndrome…just win..at all costs..
What is “seixon” doing here? is a good question…he just HAS to win..he is SO angry…and WHY? his “side” is in total control…so why is he so angry? Can there be NO dissent? he obviously cannot tolerate Dissent..which is the watch word of the C.F.T..”if you are not WITH us..then you are AGAINST us…” ahhh..yes..yes…the Cold Civil War…
ort Utility Vehicle Politics…just roll up your windows, and roll over the other guy…don’t stop for pedestrians…just speed through the neighborhoods..no regard..no concern..unless someone dares to get in your way…then WATCH OUT!
I think too..it is important to remind everyone..that these people..Bush and Co. and the rabid supporters…are the same people who..foamed at the mouth about “blacks” voting, Integration, these are the rabid “blissed out” individuals who you can see buring Elvis records, and attacking civil rights marchers…remeber that many of those same people are only in their 50’s and 60’s right now…and they have NOT CHANGED…and why this is not stated more often is a mystery…
don’t forget to duck…and watch out for that really hot day, when the air-conditioning goes down for a few day’s…the situation my just……heat up..
i usually post at eschaton, but i just came over here for a bit. the trolls are very similar everywhere, it seems. phony “facts”, flawed arguments, goalpost moving. is there some kind of school?
July 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pmSomebody check Seixon’s diaper. He’s getting whiny and cranky again. Probably needs a fresh nappy, and maybe a little powder on his hynie.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pmim glad we all agree that russia has a freer press than iraq.
Comment by kitchensinkwmds — July 15, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
Yes, I agree. Whatever the reason, whatever the trend, that’s what the evidence seems to point to
(…)and how that has led to america’s loss of respect and credibility on the world stage, as exemplified by Bush getting punked by the ex KGB agent.
I agree. I think it is embarrassing that even a authoritarian ruler like Putin can crack a joke and dismiss Pres Bush’s opinion -for all the world to see and hear.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmFor Bush to make such a statement shows how ignorant and arrogant that man is.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmMyself I think he is INSANE to say the least.
DrSinker,
There’s been progress in Iraq, sure. Unfortunately, it’s been far outweighed by just about everything else that’s going on. As I posted earlier, there are simply much better examples to hold up as countries with strong democracies and free presses. You can’t deny that.
The fact that even Iraq, with all its faults, comes out similarly to Russia shows that Russia has some deep problems with freedom. Of course Bush would use Iraq as an example, his legacy will be built on Iraq. It’s quite hilarious that none of you will own up to the fact that Bush actually had a point.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmAt Wikipedia, at the entry for “Doofusâ€, they need to put Bush right next to George Allen, who is already there.
Comment by Slow & Cumbersome
True – but, if you do a google search for “failure” good ol’ GW is the first hit returned! (been that way for quite some time now! hahaha)
July 15th, 2006 at 3:05 pmoh oh it’s starting to use fuzzy math again! i bet statistical dead heat will soon have quotation marks around it, to separate it from “facts”.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:05 pmWe all know democracy cannot be imposed–that is the difference between what happened in our early history as a country and what is happening now in Iraq. We were fighting for our independence from the government imposed on us by England; Iraqis are fighting for their independence from the government we are imposing on them. If Bush really wanted Iraq’s independence and “democracy”, he would leave Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:06 pmBruce,
so based on that, if it continues going along those lines, the difference this year is probably not going to make it all that much progress on having a free press. You can’t gloat about a result which is getting worse each year.
Was I gloating? I simply pointed out the fact that, even with everything going on in Iraq, it has improved since from before the war while Russia has actually gotten worse in the same time period. Whether the press freedom in Iraq will go up or down for 2006 is something we will have to wait and see. We can expect Russia’s to probably worsen slightly again this year.
The fact that Iraq had a better freedom of the press in 2003 than Russia did should alarm anyone as to the problems in Russia. Well, except for all of you, that is.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:07 pmNo nitpicking. You changed Putin words to try and make a point. You see, you shouldn’t be “paraphrasing” you should be quoting. You intentionally took the time to type in what you wanted Putin to say, rather than scrolling to the top of the page. selcting the Putin quote, copying it and pasting it into your post. It would take a lot less time to copy and paste the quote, but that is not what you wanted to do. You intentionally changed the quote by paraphrasing.
That is the problem with you Bushies. You people don’t quote anything. You make shit up by paraphrasing. And it is our job to correct you, which we will do everytime. You want to call it nitpicking. We call it THE TRUTH.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:08 pmannodomini,
We were fighting for our independence from the government imposed on us by England; Iraqis are fighting for their independence from the government we are imposing on them. If Bush really wanted Iraq’s independence and “democracyâ€, he would leave Iraq.
Yeah, those 11 million Iraqis sure did fight against the government we imposed on them. Uh huh. Keep the dream alive buddy. You’re basically taking the side of the 30,000 militants that want Iraq to return to the glory days of dictatorship. Screw the 11 million that voted in the election, right? It’s all about the wishes of those 30,000 militants.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pmOh my god MrTimPA, I thought you were kidding about the “failure” google. I just did it and you’re right, the first thing to pop up was George W. Bush! It would be fricken hillarious if it weren’t so fricken sad and true!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pmNew Truism:
Republican Right = Science Wrong
July 15th, 2006 at 3:12 pmSpudge_Boy,
What I wrote is essentially the same thing as Putin said. There is no substantive difference. Aka nitpicking.
That is the problem with you Bushies. You people don’t quote anything. You make shit up by paraphrasing. And it is our job to correct you, which we will do everytime. You want to call it nitpicking. We call it THE TRUTH.
That’s funny, because I’m the one who has provided the only data in this whole thread. I essentially disproved my own foolishly unqualified remark. You guys didn’t, I did. I corrected myself.
See, I’m honest, while you guys are lazy brainwashed fools who take the spin and “facts” presented by Think Progress without questioning them.
What I wrote Putin saying was not substantively different from what he actually said. Get over it.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:12 pmThe fact that even Iraq, with all its faults, comes out similarly to Russia shows that Russia has some deep problems with freedom.-Seixon
I don’t think most here would disagree with you. Russia has some serious problems with freedom. Unfortunately, so too does Iraq, and it is currently much worse, and appears to only be deteriorating.
Of course Bush would use Iraq as an example, his legacy will be built on Iraq.-Seixon
Sadly, I agree with this statement too. I just wish Bush would have realized this before deciding to invade. Perhaps he would have changed his mind. I’m glad, however, that you believe his legacy will not be built on Iran or NK. Let’s hope that’s the case.
It’s quite hilarious that none of you will own up to the fact that Bush actually had a point.-Seixon
No, what’s hilarious/sad is that you view what Bush said as a way to make a point.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:12 pm147 I just tried that too, AWESOME!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:13 pmWas I gloating? I simply pointed out the fact that, even with everything going on in Iraq, it has improved since from before the war while Russia has actually gotten worse in the same time period. Whether the press freedom in Iraq will go up or down for 2006 is something we will have to wait and see. We can expect Russia’s to probably worsen slightly again this year.
Comment by Seixon
Ok, so it’s “improved” – but, that’s like “worser” and “worse” (ala KO) – it’s still less free than Russia (using your numbers) – and while Russia’s number did drop, a less than one point change in a couple years doesn’t mean much.
I’d tend to view this “freedom of the press” issue like a pregnancy – either you are or you aren’t! I’d love to see how you can rate “freedom of the press” on a graduated scale. Do you have a link to the actual research and/or company who does this evaluation? (I’m lazy – and besides, it’s you who are touting this “data” – and if I missed the link, please repost it – thanks)
Otherwise, please stop digging.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:14 pmI bring up the fact that the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia, and suddenly I have almost a half dozen people personally attacking me.
this is the “fact” that you “simply pointed out”. this “fact” is, in fact, wrong.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:14 pmBullshit.
And the fact that you think that there is such thing as “paraphrasing exactly” shows that you aren’t very good at English. An exact paraphrase is a quote. WHich you should be doing. You have the quote at the top of the page, but you felt the need to change the text of the quote to suit your own needs.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:15 pmThe United States adventure in Iraq has been a total disaster. It has expended the lives of our soldiers, squandered our goodwil and treasure, embarrassed us in front of the world, devestated the Iraqi people, turned the middle east into a tempest and undermined the security of the United States.
George Bush needs to be removed from office for mental incompetence. The man is pathetic. He is either off in another world with totally untenable beliefs that our occupation has accomplished anything good. The other possiblity is that Bush is nothing more than a criminal and a cowardly liar who has such low self-esteem (justified by the facts) that he could never tolerate admitting a mistake.
The truth lies somewhere in between, Bush is an authoritarian coward with messianic tendancies. He will lie, deceive, cheat and undertake anyother evil deed that he believes necessary to achieve the mission that his sick, demented mind tells him that he was given by God. He is a traitor to his country and has failed to uphold the constitution that he was sworn to uphold. He should be arrested, tried and hung at the end of a rope as fitting for any such traitor.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:15 pmnow there are “30,000 militants”. just a few “dead enders” in their last throes right? the pentagon doesn’t know how many insurgents there are, but seixas does, at least until he moves the goalposts again.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:17 pmDrSinker,
I don’t think most here would disagree with you. Russia has some serious problems with freedom. Unfortunately, so too does Iraq, and it is currently much worse, and appears to only be deteriorating.
Actually, there was one poster here who seemed to have the view that the USA was comparable to Russia in press freedom. I think that shows how far sites like Think Progress have detereorated the minds here.
Bush had a point in what he was saying, although I have no clue why he brought religion into the picture. Putin had to redirect because Bush had a point. All of you laugh and took Putin’s redirect as some sort of good argument, while Bush actually nailed Putin.
In other words, if Bush spoke more eloquently, he could have said, “I mean, Russia and Iraq have similar press freedom, even though Iraq is still experiencing the remnants of a war and sectarian violence. I’d say that shows Russia has some work to do in their freedom department.”
Sadly, I agree with this statement too. I just wish Bush would have realized this before deciding to invade. Perhaps he would have changed his mind. I’m glad, however, that you believe his legacy will not be built on Iran or NK. Let’s hope that’s the case.
Sadly? We’ll see how things turn out 5-10 years from now. I don’t remember Germany being a rosy place 3 years after WWII ended. Or Japan. Or South Korea after the Korean War. The majority of Iraqis are glad that Saddam’s gone, even taking the current situation into account. Since this issue is about their country and their lives, I’ll much rather take their opinion as my own rather than partisan goons like the ones found at Think Progress.
And no, Iran and NoKo will not be invaded by Bush. Bombed, maybe, but not invaded.
No, what’s hilarious/sad is that you view what Bush said as a way to make a point.
Obviously he could have made the point better, Bush is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but behind his expression was a good point.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:19 pmSeixon
July 15th, 2006 at 3:20 pmWhy are you complaining that “at least one ex-CIA agent has been riding my ass for writing about certain subjects”? You haven’t died from it, so it’s not in any way torturous to you is it? Besides if you didn’t like someone “riding your ass” you wouldn’t be posting your nonsense on TP. You use “facts” just like the Bush Administration: make them up, misrepresent them say that others’ facts don’t matter, and label others who do point out contrary ones all in service to your agenda and fantasy world.
MrTimPA,
I’d tend to view this “freedom of the press†issue like a pregnancy – either you are or you aren’t! I’d love to see how you can rate “freedom of the press†on a graduated scale. Do you have a link to the actual research and/or company who does this evaluation?
Ah, so your world is black/white. Imagine my surprise.
Spudge_Boy,
Bullshit.
So what was the substantive difference between what I wrote and what Putin said? Nothing. Bullshit yourself.
kitchensinkwmds,
the pentagon doesn’t know how many insurgents there are, but seixas does, at least until he moves the goalposts again.
I’m just going by the last set of numbers I read on the matter. You haven’t provided any. Cheney’s statement on “last throes” was obviously wrong.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:22 pmThe truth lies somewhere in between, Bush is an authoritarian coward with messianic tendancies. He will lie, deceive, cheat and undertake anyother evil deed that he believes necessary to achieve the mission that his sick, demented mind tells him that he was given by God. He is a traitor to his country and has failed to uphold the constitution that he was sworn to uphold. He should be arrested, tried and hung at the end of a rope as fitting for any such traitor.
Comment by jmoor
You give him too much credit. He’s just an idiot. Somewhere I saw some videos of speeches he made while campaigning for Gov. of TX and he was, strangely enough, more articulate then (you might be able to find them on youtube.com) – One wonders what happened to his speaking style since then….
I’d just like to send him back to his Texas pig farm (that’s what it was) and let him do battle with his “cedars”.
The world will be much safer once he and his cronies are out of power.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:23 pmwhoa “bush actually nailed putin”??? putin made him look like a fool. this is why bush turned red and tried the lame comeback “just wait”. i guess if you can look at numbers that indicate russia has a freer press than iraq, and conclude, that, in “fact”,
July 15th, 2006 at 3:23 pm“the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia”, then you could look at that video and conclude that bush nailed putin.
- Seixon:
Yes, I was commenting on someone smearing me and threatening to publish my phone number, and you made a joke out of it. Not very considerate.
Are you even capable of refraining from distorting the facts?
What you said:
And what I said:
Now, I’m terribly sorry if you’re too fragile to take a joke, but the fact remains that I was not making a joke out of someone threatening to publish your phone number. Oversensitivity and deliberate obtuseness is a terrible combination, Seixon…you might consider trying to address at least one of those character flaws.
Persecution complex? Just look at this thread for crying out loud.
OK, so now anonymous posts on a comment board are equivalent to personal threats? Funny, I seem to recall you contradicting this stance earlier in this very thread:
E-mail is not the same thing as a phone call. Anyone can email, that doesn’t take any guts or even compromising yourself at all. Making a phone call is totally different.
Given that posting a comment here requires you to ‘compromise yourself’ even less than sending an email, would you care to address this latest collapse of reason on your part? Or can we just chalk it up in your ‘Lie’ column and move on?
(God, you really do make it too easy…)
I have a wide array of people who attack and smear me here all the time, when when I point it out, you try to make me sound like I’m making it up.
As I pointed out (and every rational person knows full well), being ’smeared’ on a chat board does not constitute a threat to your life. But of course, a person afflicted with a persecution complex can’t be expected to understand that…
Not to mention someone posting here that they were going to post pictures of me molesting a little boy on the internet.
If pictures of you molesting a little boy are out there, I’d say you have bigger problems than someone threatening to post them…
(Again, way too easy…)
Ah yes, such as the point that Russia’s freedom of press has gotten worse since 2002 while Iraq’s has improved? Uh huh.
Yes, but that’s not what you originally said. Here’s what you originally said:
The funny part is that everyone is laughing even though what Bush said is true: the press in Iraq is more free than it is in Russia.
And then, you threw in the bullshit qualifier ‘relatively’…
And now you’re talking about relative changes in those freedoms…
Keep moving those goalposts, Seixon. Perhaps someday you caan redefine your argument to something you can actually defend.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:23 pmI’m just going by the last set of numbers I read on the matter. You haven’t provided any. Cheney’s statement on “last throes†was obviously wrong.
and were these numbers, by any chance, like the numbers you quoted proving that, in “fact”, the Iraqi press is more free than in Russia.”? you have not demonstrated much facility with numbers.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:25 pmPLC,
I don’t make anything up. I owned up to the fact that what I said earlier wasn’t qualified properly. I also corrected the statement by myself with actual numbers. None of you did that, I did. I’m honest, I correct my mistakes.
I have also shown that Bush had a point in what he was saying, that Iraq has improved while Russia has not. The fact that Bush can compare Russia and Iraq legitimately shows that Russia has trouble.
None of you got that, it appears, because you are too caught up in Putin taking a cheap shot at Iraq while not refuting Bush’s point.
I bet all of you laughed when George Galloway was dodging, evading, and launching tangents on the Senate floor too. All the while he was lying and evading all the points against him.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:28 pmTrolls deliberately(?) miss the pertinent point. The issue is not who has the “freer†press or who has the better democracy and all that secondary crap. It’s not even about whether Iraq will eventually end up with a good democracy or not.
The point is that Russia could be the worst country in the world and the greatest abuser of human rights and we can’t make them do a thing about it simply because Russia has a mirror. That is how far we have fallen and that is the point.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:29 pmActually, there was one poster here who seemed to have the view that the USA was comparable to Russia in press freedom. I think that shows how far sites like Think Progress have detereorated the minds here.-Seixon
By my calculation, it’s past 5pm in Norway. I can only assume you’ve started drinking. I wrote “most”. You quoted one. I mean, you can’t be sober and be this mathematically challenged.
We’ll see how things turn out 5-10 years from now. I don’t remember Germany being a rosy place 3 years after WWII ended.-Seixon
Indeed. And, sadly, Germany was a country with far more experience than Iraq with regard to democratic ideas. Like I said, if only Bush had considered this before invading, and if only he had been frank with the American public, I do not believe we would have gone in.
The majority of Iraqis are glad that Saddam’s gone, even taking the current situation into account. Since this issue is about their country and their lives, I’ll much rather take their opinion as my own rather than partisan goons like the ones found at Think Progress.-Seixon
Apparently you don’t appreciate that the biggest partisan goon around here lives in Norway.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:30 pmMrTimPA,
I’d tend to view this “freedom of the press†issue like a pregnancy – either you are or you aren’t! I’d love to see how you can rate “freedom of the press†on a graduated scale. Do you have a link to the actual research and/or company who does this evaluation?
Ah, so your world is black/white. Imagine my surprise.
Comment by Seixon
Not exaclty – probably a bad example – and that’s why I asked you for links to the actual research and info regarding this “free press” rating system. Numbers are meaningless unless one can view the research methods used to achieve them. I mean, you were fussing about a less than one point change in Russia’s “press freedom” and making a big issue of it.
So, how does one “measure” the freedom of the press? Please post links the source. Thanks.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:30 pmDENVER – An Air Force officer pleaded guilty Friday to defacing cars with bumper stickers supporting
President Bush, and was given a two-year deferred sentence.
ADVERTISEMENT
Lt. Col. Alexis Fecteau, a decorated officer who flew 500 combat hours in the
July 15th, 2006 at 3:31 pmGulf War,
Kosovo and Bosnia, pleaded guilty to felony mischief and must pay restitution to the owners of the damaged cars to clear his record.
“George Galloway”? damn, where the hell did the goalposts go? they arent even in the freaking stadium anymore!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:31 pmHa ! Now that was a shot…
Comment by jamgyal — July 15, 2006 @ 2:53 pm
another heard around the world…
July 15th, 2006 at 3:33 pmi am so embarrassed…
#111; D & D; Right On! nuff said.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:35 pmTripMaster,
Now, I’m terribly sorry if you’re too fragile to take a joke, but the fact remains that I was not making a joke out of someone threatening to publish your phone number. Oversensitivity and deliberate obtuseness is a terrible combination, Seixon…you might consider trying to address at least one of those character flaws.
Alright, so if someone had killed my mom and I said “what you’re witnessing is the despicable and immoral acts of this person”, then you came around saying “yeah, I want you do that all the time”, that wouldn’t be an insensitive joke directly about the subject, in other words, the killing of my mother?
Man you are one slippery guy. Instead of saying to monkey, “hey dude, that was lame”, you take a cheap shot at me. Shows where your ethics lie.
Given that posting a comment here requires you to ‘compromise yourself’ even less than sending an email, would you care to address this latest collapse of reason on your part? Or can we just chalk it up in your ‘Lie’ column and move on?
Wow, so now people attacking and smearing me isn’t “persecution” just because they are anonymous people? Can we chalk that up to your disingenuous and evasive tactics?
As I pointed out (and every rational person knows full well), being ’smeared’ on a chat board does not constitute a threat to your life. But of course, a person afflicted with a persecution complex can’t be expected to understand that…
So “persecution” means “threat to your life” now? Since when? Per the dictionary, persecution is oppression or harassment or to annoy consistently. You been rewriting that dictionary of yours again to feed strawmen into your computer screen?
If pictures of you molesting a little boy are out there, I’d say you have bigger problems than someone threatening to post them…
I don’t, but yet again we see you evade the fact that someone would smear me with such filthy and libelous claims. You don’t give a damn, basically.
Keep moving those goalposts, Seixon. Perhaps someday you caan redefine your argument to something you can actually defend.
I admitted that my first statement was too strong, and provided the numbers which essentially proved it, and then I changed my argument to something else.
The point still remains that Bush had a point, in that Russia’s freedom of the press is abysmal and can even be compared to that of violent Iraq.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:36 pmI highlighted the word in my original post calling you out on you word trick. Go look it up.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:36 pmSeixon:
As I tried to articulate in an earlier article (when asking for the “free press” research – which you haven’t provided) – all things need a point of reference. So, scores (as it were) without some reference are meaningless – they’re like statistics – there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
So, please provide research links, thanks.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:38 pmone of seixon’s goals is to get people off the subject of the blog and into a tit for tat about his incorrect and lacking of, facts…this guy ruins every blog.
Comment by ren — July 15, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
yea… i can excuse the new guy, kitchensinkwmds, but the regulars here should know better… i had hoped it could be ignored and allowed to wither…
July 15th, 2006 at 3:39 pmalas…
The news media in Russia may be less free than in Iraq, but it’s not much less free than the news media in the United States. In Russia, there’s direct state control. In the U.S., all the major news media companies are controlled by Bush’s corporate allies.
And Bush owes his “election” to the disenfranchisement of black voters in 2000 and 2004 by various dirty means (bogus felons lists, failure to provide adequate voting machines in black precincts, etc.) He’s got no business lecturing anyone about democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:39 pmDrSinker,
By my calculation, it’s past 5pm in Norway. I can only assume you’ve started drinking. I wrote “mostâ€. You quoted one. I mean, you can’t be sober and be this mathematically challenged.
Did I claim most? No, I gave an example. I don’t see anyone other than you actually talking about or admitting how bad press freedom is in Russia. Think Progress has made this about a cheap insult of the state of affairs in Iraq from the Russian president instead of the sad state of affairs for the press in Russia, which was Bush’s entire point.
In other words, Putin, and by extension Think Progress, are trolling what Bush said.
Apparently you don’t appreciate that the biggest partisan goon around here lives in Norway.
Hah. Just because I’m the only one in here that doesn’t see Bush as the anti-Christ doesn’t mean that I’m the most partisan. I mean, you might as well say that the only person in Bush’s cabinet that doesn’t love Bush is the partisan. Fuggin hilarious.
ren,
I made a statement, I corrected the statement, and I am trying to talk about how Bush had a point that Russia’s freedom of press is comparable to that of Iraq, and how horrible that looks for a country like Russia.
Instead of admitting that Bush had a point, you’re all just laughing at Putin insulting Iraq. You guys are too much.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:41 pmSeixon
2005:
Iraq: 67
Russia: 48.67
The difference between the two? 18.33 points, now I am going to take a stab in the dark and guess that these numbers are out of 100, and say that this does not look like a particularly close race here. Russia’s press is 18.33 points more free then Iraq’s.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:42 pmBack on point. This exchange between Bush and Putin demonstrates, again, the arrogance of the Bush Administration as well as its incompetence. Who is Bush to tell Russia what kind of government to have? Is Bush including Russia in the “axis of evil”? Isn’t Putin rightly pointing out that Bush again lied about the situation in Iraq as there is no real freedom of the press or of religion? Does Putin have to be a saint of democracy to point that out? The whole point of TP is to promote progressive thinking and to point out where there is regressive thinking in our government. Russia’s freedoms aren’t the point. Iraq’s freedoms aren’t the point. The freedom of US citizens is the point. If Bush thinks Iraq has “freedom”, then we should be very afraid for our freedom here in the US.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:42 pmSpudge_Boy,
I highlighted the word in my original post calling you out on you word trick. Go look it up.
Yes, you highlighted “have” and I had written “have” in what I wrote. Zzzz……
MrTimPA,
I gave you the name of the source, can’t you even type that into Google and find it yourself? Damn you guys are frickin lazy as hell. It took me 15 seconds to do it myself right now. As I’ve said before, anyone can be smart and not be a brainwashed moron, but most Think Progress people don’t. Here’s your link, lazy person: http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=554
Nexat,
The news media in Russia may be less free than in Iraq, but it’s not much less free than the news media in the United States. In Russia, there’s direct state control. In the U.S., all the major news media companies are controlled by Bush’s corporate allies.
Look DrSinker, we have two.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:44 pm2005:
Iraq: 67
Russia: 48.67
The difference between the two? 18.33 points, now I am going to take a stab in the dark and guess that these numbers are out of 100, and say that this does not look like a particularly close race here. Russia’s press is 18.33 points more free then Iraq’s.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
Oh, he already admitted that it’s all relative, or something like that. I still would love to know how you judge such things and have asked for links to the research – so far zippo.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:45 pmkaty
But its so much fun watching him dig himself deeper!
PLC
More to the point, wasn’t Tony Snow saying something about Bush having a really good relationship with Putin a while back? This whole story can’t exactly be helping that.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:46 pmYou guys sound like you’re in a circle jerk comparing whose is bigger.
Geoge Bush – with arrogance as usual – suggested to Putin that Russia could fare better with a democracy like the one he so successfully implemented in Iraq. Now, really.
We didn’t go into Iraq to “free it.”
We went into Iraq because somehow the administration managed to convince a lot of sheep that Iraq was connected to 9/11. We were sold: weapons of MASS destruction. Mushroom clouds.
Then, no weapons – at least not of MASS destruction. So, now, we were in Iraq to rid it of a most dangerous Saddam. Wasn’t too hard. The guy was in a cave.
Now we are there, at great sacrifice, to institute OUR democracy.
Where does Bush get off suggesting that he knows best for other cultures? He never left the country before he was in office. It would be one thing if he was getting good sound advice, but he is surrounded by neocon-poops whose heads are still in the cold war.
And like you guys, they are going round in circles debating whose is larger,
July 15th, 2006 at 3:47 pmserious contrarians can recognize Bush’s faults without glorying in a “pile on†with a world leader who objectifies everything progressives stand against.
Comment by Giacomo
July 15th, 2006 at 3:47 pm=============
Just a tad over the top.
What’s funny is people using the “we brought democracy to Germany and Japan after World War II” arguement.
These same people fail to mention that Hitler was elected democratically, with funding from George W. Bush’s grandpa Prescott Bush. He didn’t become a dictator until later.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:47 pmBruce,
I pointed out that the 3-year average since Iraq has been quit Saddam Hussein is very identical to that of Russia. Picking one year isn’t all that illuminating.
PLC,
Yes, progressives should care about the complete lack of progressive ideas in Russia, but they’re too busy hating Bush to care at all. Iraq is becoming more progressive, but all you can do is laugh at cheap insults levied at Iraq by Putin. You’re casting away your progressive credentials to play politics.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:48 pmIt is the usage of “have.”
July 15th, 2006 at 3:49 pmThere are two underlying assumptions which are being made by many people here. I will correct them. The truth is:
America is not a “democracy.”
America does not have any legitimate reason for being in Iraq.
Therefore, any talk of how Iraq could have been handled better or how it can now be corrected is just burying your heads in the sand. America has attacked a country under false pretences. Every vestige of America must leave Iraq now. Any agreements made by the puppet governments that have been in Iraq since the American invasion are nul and void. The current “government” in Iraq is not legitimate and must relinquish power.
What America does about the silly pretence of “democracy” in America is up to the American People. I believe that you need a civil war to cure your own problems.
I am in in China and I can assure you that China has much more freedom of religion than does the United States. In the United States there are even movements afoot that are promoting Christianity as the State Religion. That is not freedom of religion. That is oppression.
The press in China is much more informative and intelligent in its analysis and content.
I recommend that as Americans you consider the British study by the “New Economics Foundation” as reported by AFP. They found Columbia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, and Panama among the top five happiest people in the world. There were 178 Countries. The United States was 150th from the top. Canada was 111th. China was 31st. India was 164th. Thailand was 44th.
It is my impression that the American People are delusional. You need to take a good look in the mirror before you try to change others.
You need to take some of the money that you gave back in taxes and threw away supporting the war-and-reconstruction brotherhood and use it to support health and well being of people every where.
Your economy is still by far the largest but the money is all going to the wrong people. Your country has been hijacked.
Be prepared if you try to do good you will be threatened or killed. Your government is not opposed to outing those who work to protect you.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:49 pmI gave you the name of the source, can’t you even type that into Google and find it yourself? Damn you guys are frickin lazy as hell. It took me 15 seconds to do it myself right now. As I’ve said before, anyone can be smart and not be a brainwashed moron, but most Think Progress people don’t. Here’s your link, lazy person: http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=554
Comment by Seixon
I told you I was “lazy” – but it was you who started the fuss by posting the numbers – thanks for the link, I will check it out. If you’re going to assert some point, please be prepared to provide refrerences, that’s all I or anyone would ask. Duh. (and while you’re at it, google “failure” as I indicated earlier)
July 15th, 2006 at 3:51 pmThe only concern that Seixon has about CIA agents iis the size of the check that they deliver each week.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:51 pm#135Jesse Crumm, #155 jmoor,…Good posts, I agree and have said close to the same things in the past 5 years. Interesting how angry all the reich wingers are and they hold all the marbles, for now. And yes the public is very angry and we are close to another civil war here. I’m ready…..Blessings
July 15th, 2006 at 3:52 pmDumbya’s retort to Putin of “Just wait” is the same schoolyard bully’s empty threat he has used his whole wretched little rich kid life.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:52 pmJust when I think that George W. Bush’s meager little mind can’t express itself any more poorly, he tops it off with another foolishly ignorant and dangerously dumb utterance.
Annette,
We went into Iraq because somehow the administration managed to convince a lot of sheep that Iraq was connected to 9/11.
False. The belief that Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 went down from around 80% right after 9/11 to around 60% before the Iraq war. There is no basis to claim that the administration linked Iraq to 9/11. Even the New York Times has had to admit that.
Where does Bush get off suggesting that he knows best for other cultures?
Yeah, who’s to say that a genocidal dictator isn’t better for the Arabs?
Spudge_Boy,
Yes, Hitler was elected democratically for demonizing the Jews and the communists. Your point? We brought democracy BACK to Germany, if you want to be obtuse about it.
Bruce,
It looks like Putin and Bush are having a bit of problems with their relationship… heh.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:53 pmLike “I say, bring ‘em on.”?
July 15th, 2006 at 3:54 pmMrTimPA
Oh, its Reporters Without Borders, they are fairly well known and regarded. The whole explaination of how the list is compiled can be found here:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15338
Anyway, South Africa’s rank: 31 (Tied with Australia) with a score of 6.5. We were quite upset about that when we got the news I remember.
America’s rank: 44, just below Macedonia and just narrowly beating Bolivia with a 9.5
The most free press in the world?
1 Denmark 0,50
July 15th, 2006 at 3:55 pm- Finland 0,50
- Iceland 0,50
- Ireland 0,50
- Netherlands 0,50
- Norway 0,50
- Switzerland 0,50
Consider this post my notice that I’ve wasted far too much time arguing with Seixon. Game over.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:56 pmserious contrarians can recognize Bush’s faults without glorying in a “pile on†with a world leader who objectifies everything progressives stand against.
Comment by Giacomo
I think Bush and Putin are both arrogant, anti-progressive, ant-democractic, and power hungry world leaders who are bad for their countries. Call it “contrarian” and “glorying” if you want. I call it defending my values and if it takes Putin to hold the mirror up to Bush’s inadequacies, so be it.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:56 pmBut its so much fun watching him dig himself deeper!
Comment by Bruce Gorton — July 15, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
that is such a “relative” statement… you’re not alone here…
while i’ve learned to scroll past those posts, i would much rather read and learn as much as i can…
You guys sound like you’re in a circle jerk comparing whose is bigger.
Comment by Annette Chandler — July 15, 2006 @ 3:47 pm
woo hoo! spoken with true conviction and experience!
July 15th, 2006 at 3:57 pmi hope they take it well… i mean, we mean well…
Seixon,
July 15th, 2006 at 3:58 pmDid they just dig you out of the ice after a five year period? Your’e not the Ice Man, are you?
Spudge_Boy,
It is the usage of “have.â€
How? Demonstrate how what I said is different. You could have done so many comments ago, but instead you elected to say “Bullshit.”
MrTimPA,
I always provide references when asked to do so, if I don’t do so originally. I stated the name of the source, that’s all that is usually required when you are writing an academic article. Notice that no one else really bothered to ask me for references before I provided the data myself. That source is not the only one for press freedom indications, but I can’t come up with others. I thought the UN did a similar survey, but I can’t find it.
ren,
Putin didn’t respond about press freedom because he knows that Russia’s is abysmal, so he made an insult at Iraq’s expense instead.
This is the same as someone pointing out to George Galloway that he appeases dictators, to which he will respond with some sort of ad hominem attack and then all you liberal dupes laugh at the attack instead of realizing that the point against him was valid.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:58 pmThat is not how he got elected. That shit came later.
He weas elected on “rebuilding Germany” You see Germany was in a depression after the world kicked it’s ass in World War I. Everyone packed up and left after destroying the place. So, Hitler rallied the masses under the guise of rebuilding. Once he was elected and then took full control of everything, after burning the Reichstaag down and blaming it on communists, he went after the Jews. Then mentally disabled people.
Read a book.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:59 pmJust wait, indeed, Americans. Our American-style democracy does not exists or won’t once martial law is declared when another 9/ll hits our shores. There is no free press either, and there is no free religion. Think about it. Remember that al-quaeda means “base,” and when the Bushites refer to their “base,” they are referring to fundamentalists Christians who are one hair-breath away from behaving as facists.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:59 pmI already showed you.
Also of note, it was not the US that defeated the Germans in WWII. It was the Russians. Hitler shouldn’t have fcvked over Stalin.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:00 pm- Seixon:
Alright, so if someone had killed my mom and I said “what you’re witnessing is the despicable and immoral acts of this personâ€, then you came around saying “yeah, I want you do that all the timeâ€, that wouldn’t be an insensitive joke directly about the subject, in other words, the killing of my mother?
That’s a cute comparison, but a completely inaccurate one. We’re not talking about someone ‘killing your mother’, Seixon…we’re talking about someone saying mean things to you on a chat board. There’s a significant difference, but again, I wouldn’t expect someone with delusions of grandeur and a persecution complex to understand that.
Man you are one slippery guy.
Pot, meet kettle.
Wow, so now people attacking and smearing me isn’t “persecution†just because they are anonymous people?
No, it isn’t, and only your grotesquely swollen ego allows you to think otherwise.
So “persecution†means “threat to your life†now? Since when?
Hey, I’m not the one talking about ‘ex-CIA agents’ ‘riding my ass’ and being shot….that’s all you. Scroll up if your memory is faulty.
Per the dictionary, persecution is oppression or harassment or to annoy consistently.
According to that definition, you’re vastly more guilty of ‘persecution’ than everyone else here combined.
I don’t [have pictures of me molesting a little boy].
Then what exactly are you concerned about?
but yet again we see you evade the fact that someone would smear me with such filthy and libelous claims.
That’s funny coming from you, since you yourself were all too quick to make the utterly groundles accusation that ‘monkey’ was a sock-puppet of mine…an accusation that you have yet to retract.
Pot, I believe you and kettle have already met.
You don’t give a damn, basically.
On that, at least, we can agree.
I admitted that my first statement was too strong
Yes, after you were called on your lie…Seixon S.O.P..
and provided the numbers which essentially proved it
Yes, because your ‘amended’ argument required those numbers. Don’t try to hold up the fact that those numbers incidentally revealed your original argument to be a LIE as evidence of your good intentions. It’s hideously dishonest…even by your standards.
and then I changed my argument to something else.
Next time, do us a fvor and make sure your argument is sound before you post…that way, we can drastically reduce our exposure to your poisonous lies. Kthx.
The point still remains that Bush had a point, in that Russia’s freedom of the press is abysmal and can even be compared to that of violent Iraq.
Bush stated that Iraq had ‘a free press and free religion’, and said that many Americans hoped that Russia would do the same thing. Spin that all you like, but you can’t change what he said, no matter how many times you change your argument.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:01 pmThe bottom line is Bush and Putin are authoritarian leaders. Both use propaganda to maintain power. Bush tried to embarass Putin in public, and Putin put it right back.
This exchange shows how Bush has weakened our ability to influence Russia.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:02 pmSpudge_Boy,
Oh man. When did Hitler write Mein Kampf?
From Wikipedia:
July 15th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Seixon: Yes, progressives should care about the complete lack of progressive ideas in Russia, but they’re too busy hating Bush to care at all. Iraq is becoming more progressive, but all you can do is laugh at cheap insults levied at Iraq by Putin. You’re casting away your progressive credentials to play politics.
Do you even read others’ posts or do you deliberately slant them (rhetorical question)? I never said we should care about the lack of progressive ideas in Russia. In fact, I clearly stated that I was only concerned about the lack of progressive policies in the US. I’m not laughing at Putin’s comments because I think they are truthfully and horribly sad. Pointing all this out is not “playing politics” – it is politics.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:05 pmOnly anti-Bush dupes would ignore that
Oh man you guys are dupes
Pathetic.
None of you see that simple fact because you’re too busy jumped up on BDS.
Seixon … I’ve seen your blog … I’ve watched the back and forth between you and others on many threads here at TP … I also view the world similarly to you. I know exactly where you’re coming from.
- But -
Have you noticed that a thread goes into hyper-drive when you appear? The Progs anticipate your arrival and then pile on when you post. I’m not sure what the above comments intend to accomplish, but, to me, your tone needs to ratchet down. I understand you want to set the record straight but your approach sometimes borders on petty and small … this only serves to make you a target.
I was actually quite surprised to see you descend into immature volleys (not this thread but a Global Warming one where I actually agreed with what you wrote but not how you said it). Let your facts do the arguing and avoid the condescension … otherwise, it just looks like you want to be right. I’ve been attacked here at TP in the past, but I tend to get more lattitude now because I don’t act like a butthole if I disagree. No one likes smug … smug sits alone.
I didn’t want your otherwise good thoughts to be lost admist unneccesary rudeness …my two cents.
- Giacomo -
July 15th, 2006 at 4:05 pmMrTimPA
Oh, its Reporters Without Borders, they are fairly well known and regarded. The whole explaination of how the list is compiled can be found here:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15338
Comment by Bruce Gorton
Bruce – thanks, I hadn’t heard of them – but the list is interesting to say the least.
All I had asked was for Seixon to post a link to the data he was citing and it took him how many posts? Too many times people post “facts” without any reference and that is very frustrating.
Again, thanks…:)
July 15th, 2006 at 4:06 pmIraq has a free press?
>
July 15th, 2006 at 4:07 pmEmphasis added.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:08 pmI hope we have stopped making foreign policy decisions based on looking into the souls of world leaders
Did you get that, Seixon?
July 15th, 2006 at 4:10 pmiT’S GETTING PRETTY BAD WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA IS DOING THE JOB OUR AMERICAN JOURNALIST ARE TOO CHICKEN TO DO.MR. PUTIN IS SO MUCH MORE A STATESMAN THAN BUSH THAT IT IS SO EMBARASSING TO WATCH.eSPECIALLY WHEN YESTERDAY HE WAS ASKED A VERY SERIOUS QUESTION ABOUT THE BOMBING OF LEBANON,AND HE REPLYED THAT HE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO ASK HIM ABOUT A PIG.HOW STUPID IS THAT?AS FOR BRINGING ON ARMEGEDON;THAT IS SOMETHING THAT ONLY GOD WILL DECIDE AND NOT BUSH NOR PAT ROBERTSON NOR ANY OTHER NUT.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:12 pm208 Seixon
July 15th, 2006 at 4:13 pmYou really do need a remedial reading course. The quote you posted actually goes against your position again (”A key element of Hitler’s appeal was his ability to convey a sense of offended national pride” and “blaming these humiliations on “international Jewry†were not particularly successful with the electorate”). Point to SpungeBoy.
TripMaster,
That’s a cute comparison, but a completely inaccurate one. We’re not talking about someone ‘killing your mother’, Seixon…we’re talking about someone saying mean things to you on a chat board. There’s a significant difference, but again, I wouldn’t expect someone with delusions of grandeur and a persecution complex to understand that.
Ah yes, so publishing someone’s phone number on the internet is “mean things”. Odd how much you like to belittle the vicious things people on Think Progress do to me. Delusions of grandeur? Like what? You’re full of shit.
Pot, meet kettle.
Wow, the “I know you are but what am I” comeback. Clever.
Yes, after you were called on your lie…Seixon S.O.P..
A lie would indicate that I knew what I was saying was false, which is not true. My willingness to find the statistics and prove myself wrong tends to show that I was not lying.
Don’t try to hold up the fact that those numbers incidentally revealed your original argument to be a LIE as evidence of your good intentions. It’s hideously dishonest…even by your standards.
LOL. So I lied, then proved that I was a liar? Yeah, I know a bunch of liars that go around proving themselves to be liars. LOL.
Next time, do us a fvor and make sure your argument is sound before you post…that way, we can drastically reduce our exposure to your poisonous lies.
I usually do, but this time I was a bit hasty. I corrected myself, more than you have ever done.
Bush stated that Iraq had ‘a free press and free religion’, and said that many Americans hoped that Russia would do the same thing. Spin that all you like, but you can’t change what he said, no matter how many times you change your argument.
As I have already said, Bush does not speak well, and he could have laid out his point better. Instead of getting the point he was trying to convey, you laugh at a cheap joke Putin made insulting Iraq. That’s what trolls do. Ignore the point, and latch onto the tangent.
pdub,
The bottom line is Bush and Putin are authoritarian leaders. Both use propaganda to maintain power. Bush tried to embarass Putin in public, and Putin put it right back.
Bush did embarass Putin. Only liberal dupes don’t get that because they are too caught up in loving Putin’s cheap insult.
Russia’s freedom of the press is abysmal, but here all the “progressives” are talking about anything other than the unprogressive tendencies of Russia, which is what Bush was pointing out.
In other words, the “progressives” here at Think Progress don’t give a shit about progressive ideas in Russia, but only care about slandering their political opponent Bush.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:14 pmJuly 15–Eighteen civilians, including nine children, were burnt alive in an Israeli helicopter gunship attack Saturday on residents fleeing border villages in south Lebanon, UN peacekeepers and hospital sources said.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:15 pmAre you people here that are pulling for George Bush serious?????? No, really-Are you SERIOUS????? This scumbag could’t add 2 + 2!!!!!!!!!!! Are you REALLY serious????????? Please, c’mon, Are YOU REALLLY SERIOUSSS???????? No way, ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS??????????
July 15th, 2006 at 4:16 pmRelatively speaking, Iraq has a more free press than Russia does. Iraq has gone from 79 in 2002 to 67 in 2005. Russia has gone from 48 in 2002 to… 48.67 in 2005.
What? Try this :
Relatively speaking, Iraq has less fat than Russia does. Iraq has gone from 79 kilos in 2002 to 67 kilos in 2005. Russia has gone from 48 kilos in 2002 to… 48.67 kilos in 2005.
Makes sense? Of course not. Goose.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:16 pm>>Yes, progressives should care about the complete lack of progressive ideas in Russia, but they’re too busy hating Bush to care at all.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:17 pmAmerica is not a “democracy.â€
Correct … we are a Republic.
I am in in China and I can assure you that China has much more freedom of religion than does the United States.
Where in China? Hong Kong? How can you possibly be taken seriously with such a patently false statement?
The press in China is much more informative and intelligent in its analysis and content.
Maybe more intelligent … how does this statement mesh with the Chinese governments manipulation of Google queries. Is it reasonable to assert that China has the more informative press when the state won’t let its populace have unrestricted access to the internet????
You need to take some of the money that you gave back in taxes and threw away supporting the war-and-reconstruction brotherhood and use it to support health and well being of people every where.
Good idea … but we already beat you to it. $260 Billion in 2005 (of which $25 Billion or so was US government, the rest individuals and organizations). Perhaps you didn’t know this since you were in China and couldn’t Google it? What gives, doug?
July 15th, 2006 at 4:17 pmBadmoodman: “But then, you’re taking the side of the anti-democratic Bush.â€
Spudge_Boy: “Seixon, taking the side of the anti-democrtic Bush.â€
seixon, two people pointing out the same fact does not ivalidate said fact. facts can be predictable and still be facts. bush has challenged the constitution at every opportunity in an attempt to give the office of the president near dictatorial power.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:19 pmthe white house has planted propaganda in the MSM which presented it as independent news coverage. that is not a free press. having read other posts from you, it’s clear that you hold bush in higher esteem than the constitutioin. serious question: are you a fascist?
“Yes, progressives should care about the complete lack of progressive ideas in Russia, but they’re too busy hating Bush to care at all.”
It’s not a matter of hating Bush just because he smirks. Like the fundies say, “hate the sin.” Bush’s sins are abominable. Lying the country into an endless bloody war is the worst of them.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:19 pmSeixon,
If you have so much respect for Mr. Bush and hate liberals so much, why are you in socialist Norway?
July 15th, 2006 at 4:20 pmSeixon must be in bed – it is 10:21 in Norway, 9:21 in England, 11:21 in Finland and between 12:21 and 1:21 (AM, Sunday) in European Russia.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:21 pmGIACOMO -
THIS is ignorant:
We have no idea what kind of ethnic strife might appear in the future, although as I have noted, it has not been the history of Iraq’s past.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, FEBRUARY 27, 2003*
*At that time, Wolfowitz was the Deputy Secretary of Defense
July 15th, 2006 at 4:21 pmhttp://radamisto.blogspot.com/2005/12/criminal-ignorance.html
It was false. And further it took the rest of us pointing out that your statistics showed the exact opposite to what you were saying for you to revise your statement. Your posting of those statistics didn’t include a “I mispoke” they included
According to that list they have about a freer press by about 18.33 points.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:21 pmThe two terms are not mutually exclusive, but they are becoming more so under Bush. It’s more of a plutocracy than it ever has been since the New Deal.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:23 pmre trolls–yeah ignoring them is always an option. but i think it is necessary to point out the flaws, because otherwise, simply by repetition, bullshit becomes accepted truth (FDR sold us out at Yalta! There are lots of welfare queens driving around in cadillacs buying steaks with food stamps! You didn’t deny it so it must be true!
July 15th, 2006 at 4:23 pmGiacomo,
Hey, I guess I am influenced by everyone else here calling me names. When someone calls me names, I’m inclined to return fire. I’ll try to tone it down. ;)
MrTimPA,
I gave you the name for the source and I gave you a link as soon as I saw you asking for one. What more do you want? A latte? A comfortable pillow?
ren,
Point out a single time the administration tried to claim that Iraq was behind 9/11. About 80% of Americans believed Saddam played a role right after 9/11 happened – before the Bush administration had made any comments about who was responsible. CNN/TIME poll 9/11-9/13, 2001. Look it up. Learn something. You can’t teach me the facts when you don’t have any.
Steve,
Get what?
cincig,
MR. PUTIN IS SO MUCH MORE A STATESMAN THAN BUSH THAT IT IS SO EMBARASSING TO WATCH
Yeah, it’s statesman-like to insult a country going through sectarian violence for the cheap purpose of redirecting criticism.
PLC,
Try again. You need to learn how to read. The quote says that Hitler’s crass anti-Semitism was not well received by the Germans, so they toned it down to subtle anti-Semitism. Then of course they burned the Reichstag and blamed it on the communists, and then magically they got lots of votes. Funny how that happened.
As Bruce pointed out:
Did you read that part?
July 15th, 2006 at 4:24 pmOh yeah! Be sure to watch the clip (above). Check out the audience response. It’s killer!
Only Bubble Boy does not, can not understand what a disaster he’s created in Iraq. If only the press here in the US was as free as what George claims it is in Iraq, he would have been chased out of town by a mob carrying torches long ago.
I also heard Christians — yes, Christians! — lack full civil liberties in Iraq according to their new constitution. So much for the ‘free religion’ this dolt talks about. Doesn’t he know?
Putin is Putin. He’s no Gorbachev. But he got in a well-deserved public jab that ‘free speech zones’ have protected Bush from for 5+ years. Thank you, Vlad!
July 15th, 2006 at 4:26 pmWhat was Bush’s purpose in making his comments in the first place? Maybe his transcript is a clue:
BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.
He seemed to be trying to present himself as the “Great I” whose job it is to “promote institutional change in parts of the world”. NO IT’S NOT! His job is to promote, protect, and defend the US Constitution. His job is to protect the civil rights of US citizens. His job is to represent all US citizens on the world stage. “Bring it on”, “wanted dead or alive”, “axis of evil”, “just wait”, and the actions that accompany those statements do not benefit US citizens. And, Seixon, it’s not slandering Bush when you accurately report and complain about what he has done. I accept your admission of inaccurate posting of a “fact” in this thread. But I don’t accept what I see as your blind and misguided support of Bush’s policies and “politics”.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:28 pmHate bush?
July 15th, 2006 at 4:28 pmYou’re God-damn right! There is plenty of reason to hate this fraud of a man. Not only is bush a war-mongering, profiteering, lying son-of-a-bitch, he’s a delusional fool! And anyone how stills believes the mendacity that spews from his mouth every time he opens it is a fool too.
It’s a crying shame that a once great country has been dragged down to a laughing stock by this clown of a man. We had the sympathy of the world after 9/11 and in record time this vapid creep has turned us into the most hated country on Earth.
Hate bush? Please, I beg anyone to give us one reason NOT to!
re trolls–yeah ignoring them is always an option. but i think it is necessary to point out the flaws………………..
Comment by kitchensinkwmds — July 15, 2006 @ 4:23 pm
yea yea yea… but see, that one has already gotten his, keeps coming back, keeps clogging up the pipes…
July 15th, 2006 at 4:28 pmbesides, there is a way to address the lies without addressing the troll…
just sayin’…
Translation from gop speak to English: Pay no attention as Bush assumes the power of a dictator in the U.S. Worry instead about Putin doing the same in Russia.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:28 pmSeixon
And as I also pointed out the anti-Semitism didn’t go down too well with the public before they altered the propaganda to include demonising the other parties and reforming Germany’s economy.
Point, Spudge_Boy.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:28 pmi like the quote “isn’t the entire US a free speach zone?”. evidently not under bush.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:28 pmI would think progressives would find Putin far more distasteful than Bush. That is unless their ignorant … then I understand.
Comment by Giacomo — July 15, 2006 @ 1:48 pm
Putin is not the president of the USA. Big difference. We expect much more from our president!
July 15th, 2006 at 4:29 pmputin thought he got the best of the exchange. the reporters thought so. it even seems likely that bush thought so (he turned red). however, strangely, bush supporters thought he embarassed putin.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:29 pmsorry. typeo. *speech*
July 15th, 2006 at 4:30 pmyea yea yea… but see, that one has already gotten his, keeps coming back, keeps clogging up the pipes…
besides, there is a way to address the lies without addressing the troll…
that’s reasonable.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:30 pmBabson,
Relatively due to the violence in Iraq. As I said.
Giacomo,
A republic is a democracy…. ;)
dasein,
You are exaggerating for partisan purposes. That’s all I’m going to say to you.
Nexat,
See what I said to dasein.
ren,
Diversity of opinion at Think Progress? Oh man, that’s funny. It’s sad, but funny.
Bruce,
Your posting of those statistics didn’t include a “I mispoke†they included…
I thought that was pretty apparent by me posting numbers that contradicted what I said earlier. Sorry if I didn’t state the obvious, which I did later.
According to that list they have about a freer press by about 18.33 points.
Yes, last year. Over the past three years, not much of a difference.
pdub,
If you have so much respect for Mr. Bush and hate liberals so much, why are you in socialist Norway?
I certainly don’t hate Bush, but that doesn’t mean I think he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread either. Only partisans think that way, aka black/white, which it seems is the rule here.
If you want to know my views on political issues instead of trying to pigeon-hole me, you’re more than welcome to ask. Or you can drop me an email at blog@seixon.com.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:36 pmLet’s see: Putin has dismantled democracy in Russia and has dragged Russia back down to the “not free” status among nations. He’s also an enabler of North Korea’s threat to the world, to name just one of many contemptible things about him.
So, I’m not sure what Think Progress or its commenters are getting at, except their desire to express common ground with Putin, a dismantler of democracy, and their hope that no one constructs democracy in Iraq.
But do pat yourselves on each other’s backs all you like.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:37 pmhaha It was amazing to see Bush blush when Putin said that! The dumbass Bush is he would never learn Afghanistan and Iraq have been major blunders.
At least America should have known Bush this before electing him for a 2nd term.
“I’m proud of George. He’s learned a lot about ranching since that first year when he tried to milk the horse. What’s worse, it was a male horse.” –First Lady Laura Bush, at the White House Correspondents dinner, April 30, 2005
July 15th, 2006 at 4:37 pm- Seixon:
Odd how much you like to belittle the vicious things people on Think Progress do to me.
Odd how much you like to call attention to them.
Delusions of grandeur? Like what?
Like claiming ‘ex-CIA agents’ are ‘riding your ass’, to quote just one example. I’m not insensitive to your plight, though…I have a spare tinfoil hat if you want it, but given your rampant paranoia, I doubt if you’ll give me a shipping address.
You’re full of shit.
Thanks once again for showing your true colors. You make it far too easy.
Wow, the “I know you are but what am I†comeback. Clever.
No, the ‘pot, meet kettle’ comment is intended to point up your blatant hypocrisy…not surprising that you fail to understand it, although whether your obtuseness is a result of malice of just plain stupidity is a subject for further debate.
A lie would indicate that I knew what I was saying was false, which is not true.
So again we’re back to a decision between malice and stupidity. Not a good day for you.
LOL. So I lied, then proved that I was a liar?
No, you lied, and then you amended your argument after being called on your lie, using information which, incidentally proved the lie in the first place. Again, citing that as evience of your good intentions doesn’t work, because it presupposes either stupidity or malice at the outset. Which is it?
I usually do, but this time I was a bit hasty.
The hell you do. This is Seixon S.O.P., and we all know it.
I corrected myself, more than you have ever done.
I don’t need to ‘corrrect’ myself, as I check my facts before I post. It’s quite a time saver…I’d suggest you look into it, but as we all know, ’saving time’ would not serve your real purpose here…namely, of derailing the conversation with lies, distortions, personal attacks, and irrelevancies.
As I have already said, Bush does not speak well,
Yes, a trait you and the ‘decider’ share, if your excuses are to be believed.
Sorry, Seixon, but I’m not buying it…not for him, and not for you. Both of you need to start taking responsibility for your lies.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:39 pmren
Cheney claimed that an agent of Saddam Hussein met with one of the main 9/11 terrorists in Prague before the attack. Cheney lied.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:39 pmPutin is not the president of the USA. Big difference. We expect much more from our president!
That’s a perfectly reasonable answer. I do believe that were some of those to filter other world leaders through the progressive prism they use on Bush … well, he might not be as bad as the casual Hitler references like to infer. Despite much hyperbole to the contrary, our Constitution and our nation are not in grave peril. A simple purview of American history and the amazing schisms and partisan attitudes of our past would “clue in” those that think such (one of our Vice-Presidents shot and killed one of our (actually, the first) Secretaries of Treasury for God’s sake).
July 15th, 2006 at 4:39 pm……….it’s Bush’s reply that scares the hell out of me!!!!!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 4:40 pm” JUST WAIT”
LoafingOaf
We are getting at the following
1: Bush’s friendly relationship with Putin isn’t exactly paying off, even if it exists.
2: Bush got made a fool of by Putin, on what was pretty legitimate grounds.
3: Even if Bush had a good relationship with Putin in the past, I wouldn’t exactly say he has one right now looking at this evidence.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:40 pmWith people like Rummy around Bush what more could we expect.
Rumsfeld
July 15th, 2006 at 4:43 pmI am disliking humanity more each day.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:43 pmSo, I’m not sure what Think Progress or its commenters are getting at, except their desire to express common ground with Putin, a dismantler of democracy, and their hope that no one constructs democracy in Iraq.
But do pat yourselves on each other’s backs all you like.
Comment by LoafingOaf — July 15, 2006 @ 4:37 pm
i’m trying to “get at” the point that the Iraq war was the greatest strategic mistake that the us has made in almost 50 years. Putin is an authoriatarian jerk, much like bush, but he isn’t running the us, so i am not as concerned about him at the moment.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:43 pmif bush had said something clever that embarassed putin, i would have laughed at that, too. as far as your point about “hoping that no one constructs democracy in Iraq”–you don’t mean that seriously.
……….it’s Bush’s reply that scares the hell out of me!!!!!!!
†JUST WAITâ€
Comment by Alphauniform — July 15, 2006 @ 4:40 pm
me too… i’m real tired of waiting… so are the iraqi citizens…
July 15th, 2006 at 4:45 pmso is the whole world…
A republic is a democracy…. ;)
It’s similar in that it uses democratic processes, but it’s dissimilar in that our Constitution is designed to limit governmental powers. We’re not a government of the masses but a government derived by election to represent the masses … big difference.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:45 pmFunny,
Only Bubble Boy does not, can not understand what a disaster he’s created in Iraq.
I guess the Iraqis are in his bubble, since most of them think it was worth it to take out Saddam, even taking into account what’s happened since then.
PLC,
But I don’t accept what I see as your blind and misguided support of Bush’s policies and “politicsâ€.
The only Bush policies I support are the war to remove Saddam Hussein, the war on terror, and the Dubai Ports deal. Maybe parts of his immigration policy. Other than that, I’m not coming up with much. Oh, and of course, none of these have anything to do with Bush personally.
Nexat,
Translation from gop speak to English: Pay no attention as Bush assumes the power of a dictator in the U.S. Worry instead about Putin doing the same in Russia.
Been visiting PrisonPlanet a bit too much I see.
Bruce,
And as I also pointed out the anti-Semitism didn’t go down too well with the public before they altered the propaganda to include demonising the other parties and reforming Germany’s economy.
Eh, and? I never said it was ONLY anti-Semitism, did I? I just said that demonizing Jews and communists was used to get into power. That was true. But now you’ve given a point to someone who claimed the opposite. Can you explain how that works?
kitchensinkwmds,
however, strangely, bush supporters thought he embarassed putin.
No, those who aren’t hooked on hating Bush saw that Bush embarrased Putin. Why do you think Putin went off on Iraq instead of talking about Russia’s abysmal democracy? What Putin is, though, is good at making gullible people take their eye off the point. So is Galloway.
ren,
can you read? i said the administration tried to link al-quada to iraq through 9/11, i.e. in the run up to the war in iraq. as far as 80% believing iraq was involved in 9/11 just after 9/11; i wasn’t one of them, were you?
The administration linked Iraq to al Qaeda, but not to 9/11.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:47 pmI don’t remember thinking anything about Iraq after 9/11.
All I remember after 9/11 happened was being really sad and overwhelmed.
Let’s see: Bush has dismantled democracy in America and has dragged America back down to the “not free†status among nations. He’s also an enabler of North Korea’s threat to the world, to name just one of many contemptible things about him.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:49 pmPoint out a single time the administration tried to claim that Iraq was behind 9/11.
Okay….
“I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam Hussein, you’re a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat, as far as I-concerned.”
—George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
July 15th, 2006 at 4:50 pmPossibly the MOST embarrassing human form of stupidity is an American discussing Russia. I listen to my fellow countrymen and my skin crawls.
However, in truth, Americans actually HAVE an excuse for their pig-ignorance. From about 1947 until now, virtually EVERYTHING any American has “learned†about Russia was told them by PAID LIARS.
I am NOT an expert in Russia, but I did live in Finland for a while and I can assure you that the average cab driver in Turku has an understanding of Russia that is 100 times more sophisticated and nuanced than that of the head of the Russian Studies department at Harvard. I know this to be true because Marshall Goldman, who held that position, used to spot his utter ignorance on PBS.
Let’s look at the contrast in viewpoints. Secretary of STATE Rice is reputed to be a Russian expert with a gilt-edged diploma yet cannot hold a conversation in Russian with a seven-year-old. Our CIA, which cost something like $30 billion per year to look at Russia, still has no idea why the Wall came down (they actually believe it had something to do with something Reagan did or said but proving causation is harder than justifying their findings that the Soviet economy grew at a 3.5% annual rate under Brezhnev.) Most improbably, most Americans do not even know that USSR fought in World War II–and was our ally.
In Finland, there are graveyards that were moved from Russian Karelia when Finland lost territory after WWII. There is a huge model of Vyborg in the Lappeenranta city museum so the Finns know what it was like before their destructive neighbors captured it. Old Finnish women tell of selling their wedding rings to pay war reparations so that Finland could stay independent. And independent they stayed–with a five million population and a 600 mile border. Even better, they became prosperous from doing business with Russia. (Linus Torvalds, the world-class genius who first wrote Linux, was the son of a journalist for a big Finnish newspaper who covered Moscow. Considering the importance of understanding their oversized neighbor, getting the Moscow desk is probably one of the highest intellectual awards in the land. Obviously, Linus’ genius did not fall from the sky.)
And what do the Finns I know say about Putin and Russia.
1) Putin is a proud son of St. Petersburg. And after the chaos of the 1990s when absurdly bad economic advice from Harvard collapsed the Russian economy, anyone who reminds the beaten down citizens of their pride is going to be very popular. Putin polls at around 80%.
2) Kordikovsky is a thief. All the oligarchs are. Putin became more popular when he actually threw one of them in jail. Kordikovsky was rich enough to buy sympathy in the Western press, and he IS a sympathetic character to those who believe that all natural resources must belong to private individuals, but otherwise we are wasting our sympathy for the devil.
3) Putin has ZERO respect for his American counterparts. To get where he got from where he started took a LOT of determination, hard work, and study. Unlike Ms. Rice, he actually IS fluent in languages–he has held press conferences in German. Unlike Mr. Bush, he actually studied in school. Unlike Bush’s father, he actually had to make his OWN connections to run the secret police.
4) Russia, because of oil prices, has escaped the trap laid for him by the banksters who usually can keep international leaders in line. The stories of Russian economic demise have been wildly exaggerated and hopelessly premature.
One other thing, if I believe that the head of Harvard’s Russia department is a drooling idiot, one might imagine what I think of a braying jackass like Seixon. Until he actually does some homework, I think his sole usefulness is restricted to providing an example of how goofy you can be and still exchange oxygen with the atmosphere.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:52 pmThe whole world laughs at Bush. The saddest part is that it really isn’t funny.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:52 pmDid you read that part? Comment by Seixon
Yes, Seixon, I read it. In fact, i read the whole train of argument which started with:
What’s funny is people using the “we brought democracy to Germany and Japan after World War II†arguement. These same people fail to mention that Hitler was elected democratically, with funding from George W. Bush’s grandpa Prescott Bush. He didn’t become a dictator until later. Comment by Spudge_Boy
The discussion started with the concept of spreading democracy by a leader who acts like a dictator. You didn’t like the Hitler-Bush similarity so you started a ridiculous word play game to distract from that.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:53 pmThis comment by Bush goes to show just how little this guy knows about the real world. For Bush to suggest the “Iraq is an example” of what democracy is – is ludicrous. I am sure Bush’s advisers are ‘trying to figure out how to offset’ these comments!
July 15th, 2006 at 4:53 pm[...] If we can’t impeach him, maybe we can lock him up in the White House basement until 2009 so he’s not trotting around the world making a fool of himself. Dear Leader upstaged again: During a press conference today at the G8 summit in Russia, President Bush told President Vladimir Putin that Americans want Russia to develop a free press and free religion “like Iraq.†To laughter and applause, Putin responded: “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.†CNN’s Ed Henry called it a “tough jab.†[...]
July 15th, 2006 at 4:53 pmSeixon sez:
The administration linked Iraq to al Qaeda, but not to 9/11.
Yet another LIE…how many does this make?
July 15th, 2006 at 4:54 pm“See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don’t attack each other. Free nations don’t develop weapons of mass destruction.”
—George W. Bush, Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003
July 15th, 2006 at 4:56 pm“My answer is bring them on.”
—On Iraqi insurgents attacking U.S. forces, George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 3, 2003
July 15th, 2006 at 4:57 pmBush and all his Reagan-era advisors are probably waiting for their chance to forceably bring their Iraq-style-democracy to Russia, and have been since the 80s. As long as the Bush administration can install a permanent military presence throughout the middle east, we’ll be set to take on Russia.
One problem is that the Cold War is over, but these Republican dinosaurs still haven’t realized that. And the other problem is that none of them expected their failure of a leader to cause Iraq to turn into a miserable failure of a quagmire. Now that the stability in the middle east is turning to mush, the Bush administration dreams are going to die a horribly slow painful death.
America and the rest of the world will be worse off than ever before because of it.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:00 pmSeixon
Simple enough, Anti-Semitism didn’t score big with the Germans right? So Hitler mixed in things like how to rebuild Germany, how these other parties failed the Germans (Particularly the Liberal Demorcats) how they didn’t have what it took to make Germany great again, and how the Treaty of Versailles was a betrayal of the German people.
It is a reasonable inference from this information that while to a large extent Hitler’s aims included a large degree of anti-Semitism in Germany, what really got him in was his promise to reform the government of Germany’s economic systems. In essence, to rebuild Germany. The shame of Germany isn’t that the Germans were horrible anti-Semites, its that they were prepared to let the Jews die so they could get out of the depression.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:03 pm“Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of (Dr. Seuss’s) ‘Hop on Pop.’”
—George W. Bush, in a speech about childhood education, Washington, D.C., April 2, 2002
July 15th, 2006 at 5:05 pmSeixon
It doesn’t matter if your statement was valid for 2003, what matters is that it was invalid for 2005, and is probably still invalid for 2006. Putin was talking in the present tense, so were you, therefore, your statement was false.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:06 pmunbelievable
That… explains some things I guess…
July 15th, 2006 at 5:07 pmSeixon: The only Bush policies I support are the war to remove Saddam Hussein, the war on terror, and the Dubai Ports deal. Maybe parts of his immigration policy. Other than that, I’m not coming up with much.
How about these:
spying without court order and Congressional oversight
torture
detaining prisoners of war (or whatever) without benefit of counsel
denying civil liberties to an oppressed group (homosexuals)
paying for good press coverage and promotion of policies
denying dissention during public appearances, paid by tax payers
treating corporations as individuals
using “signing statements” to oppose legislation
You are a Bush kool-aid drinker who tries to present himself as rational, reasoned, informed, and independent thinking.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pmIt is an amazing thing read this thread. It appears that those on the Left are so obsessed in their hatred of Bush that they want to write overt “thank yous” to Putin.
Ar people on the left coimpletely ignorant or just in complete bad faith?
Putin, as I’ve already noted, has caused Russia to be lowered to the “not free” status of nations, moving it furhter and further away from democracy. And could it be that you folks do not know what Putin has done with his troops in Chechnya? Do people here believe that Putin’s opposition to the toppling of Saddam’s regime in Iraq was for idealistic reasons? do you not know that Russia had a corrupt relationship with Saddam’s regime, taking bribes to undermine United Nations sanctions? Are you so out of the loop on current events that you’re unaware of Putin’s efforts to ensure the United Nations is ineffective in genocide in Sudan, and nukes in North Korea and Iran?
What planet, exactly, does the Think Progress wing of the Left live on? Whatever planet it is, please don’t tell me down the line how much you wish the United Nations was able to deal with threats to this world and genocides against peoples, when you don’t seem much insterested in reforming the United Nations, and today you have decided to come right out and THANK Putin, a man who has done more to help prevent effective actions by the United Nations against evil in this world than anyone I can think of.
Shame on the Think Progress community. Don’t be surprised when I vote for any candidates BUT the one’s this community endorses. But do keep hoping for death and destruction in Iraq rather than a democracy that can stand on its own, if it makes you feel like “good” people. We already saw the complete lack of solidarity you had with the millions of Iraqis risking their lives to vote in the first legitimate elections of their live. Instead, you appear to be rooting for people who want to blow up Iraqis who go out to vote for freedom. How lovely. -spit-
July 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pmseixon said-from around 80% right after 9/11 to around 60% before the Iraq war. There is no basis to claim that the administration linked Iraq to 9/11. Even the New York Times has had to admit that.
Pure bull $hit. He may have never said Iraq/Sadam were part of 9/11 but, everyone with an IQ above 80 knows he and his adminastration everything they could to make that link.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pm“But I also made it clear to (Vladimir Putin) that it’s important to think beyond the old days of when we had the concept that if we blew each other up, the world would be safe.”
July 15th, 2006 at 5:10 pm—George W. Bush, May 1, 2001
Bush pays US Troops to plant good news properganda stories.
Maybe Jeff Gannon can go to work in Russia.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:11 pmLoafingOaf
This community endorses the Republican Party. All of it. Every single candidate. Oh, and Joe Lieberman.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:11 pmLook, true freedom comes only from ppeople rising up against authority. Russia repressed its people at Kronstadt for trying to save themselves from dictatorship. http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/russia/mett/soviets9.html Neither Bush nor Putin should rule the world. Tyranny is tyranny, regardless where it comes from. Look up Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, and of course, the historian Howard Zinn for true history about people trying to free themselves.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:11 pm“My plan reduces the national debt, and fast. So fast, in fact, that economists worry that we’re going to run out of debt to retire.”
—George W. Bush, radio address, Feb. 24, 2001
July 15th, 2006 at 5:12 pm“I want everybody to hear loud and clear that I’m going to be the president of everybody.”
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 18, 2001
July 15th, 2006 at 5:13 pmPoint out a single time the administration tried to claim that Iraq was behind 9/11.
wow… wait till you read what i found, at the end, wait for it… of course, to link iraq and al-qaeda = iraq and 9/11…
so, first this:
False trails that lead to the al-Qaeda ‘links’
Sunday February 2, 2003 – The Observer
Since the aftermath of 11 September, it has been the Holy Grail of Bush administration hardliners: to link Iraq with al-Qaeda – and join up its war on terrorism with its policy of regime change in Baghdad.
Last week it was promised again, first by President George Bush in his State of the Union address and later by Tony Blair, who said he ‘knew’ of links between Iraq and al-Qaeda. US Secretary of State Colin Powell says those links will be revealed this week…
and now, the kicker:
If the link to al-Zarqawi is at best circumstantial, the second connection that the Bush administration apparently plans to develop is equally tendentious. That connection is to the al-Ansar group, which, like al-Zarqawi, is also sheltering in Kurdish northern Iraq. The leader of this group, also expected to be name checked by Powell this week, is Mullah Krekar.
His group certainly is nasty, but what baffles many is that, despite the allegations about his group, he remains at large, living unmolested by the authorities in Norway.
i just added fuel to that fire, didn’t i?
July 15th, 2006 at 5:14 pmTripMaster,
Yet another LIE…how many does this make?
Eh, your link showed exactly what I said, that the administration linked Iraq to al Qaeda. You having a tough time reading?
ren,
Elaborate? In what way? The administration linked Iraq to al Qaeda many times, but never linked Iraq to 9/11. If you believe otherwise, please make a case.
Bruce,
Obviously anti-Semitism wasn’t the only thing Hitler used to get power, but it was part of his message, as was demonizing the communists. The biggest part of the message was essentially saying that the Germans were pussies for having given up during WWI, which he combined with the anti-Semitism of blaming the Jews for some of the economic things going on in Germany, along with demonizing the communists. Spudge_Boy seemed to claim that anti-Semitism only came about after Hitler came to power, which isn’t true at all.
I’m going to eat something and watch a movie with a friend now, so don’t expect any responses from me for a while.
In conclusion:
All I sought to demonstrate was that Putin redirected the fact that his country’s democracy is a joke, which Bush compared to the violent Iraq, and Iraq is in fact comparable to Russia in regards to freedom of the press (although not religion since Russia is pretty much areligious; probably stemming from Bush’s ignorance of facts about Russia).
Those who saw that Putin was just trying to evade the fact that his country’s freedom of the press is abysmal by taking a cheap shot at Iraq are the wise ones.
Those who ignored the point Bush was making and bought into Putin’s evasion are apparently those who hate Bush more than they like to think with their brain.
Bush did not lay his point out well, he could have said it in a much better way, but Bush is not an eloquent speaker, nor is he a whiz on Russian demographics. Simply ignoring the point he was making because he is poor at making his case is a shame.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:15 pmThat… explains some things I guess…
Comment by Bruce Gorton — July 15, 2006 @ 5:07 pm
How can anyone hear this lunatics ravings and support him in utter and blind faith?
Okay, last one for now:
“The legislature’s job is to write law. It’s the executive branch’s job to interpret law.”
—George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000
July 15th, 2006 at 5:17 pmLet’s stop beating around the bysh. Iraq is worse now than when Saddam was there, period. This point of Bushs’ statements hinge on the fact that the goal was actually to liberate the country. That was never the intention. The intention was to destabilize the country. There is the excuse to stay indefinitely. All the talk is a waste. Putin is a no good piece of you know what, but he isn’t stupid. He among others is positioning his country in the world war that’s about to abrupt. Bush is a puppet with limited intelligence. If Iraq has a free press why don’t they report on how most of the population doesn’t have any electricity? Or that there’s hardly any schools there for children to learn? OR about all the U.S. bases that have been built there? It’s time for everyone to stop the bullsh*tting.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:17 pmThis community endorses the Republican Party. All of it. Every single candidate. Oh, and Joe Lieberman.
No, you’re purging Lieberman from your party, despite his lifelong record as a liberal, simply because he’s on the side of the USA in this war, and because he wants the government Iraqis voted for to succeed. But do waste your time purging democrats this election season. I’m sure that’ll help you….er…do what? All that Lamont, apparently your idea of a brilliant and qualified candidate? HAHAHA
I do remember now the last time I was at this web site. It was when Think Progress was telling flat out lies about U.S. troops using “chemical weapons” on civilians. I understand where this community is coming from. Tell lies about U.S. soliders and give high fives to Putin. Congratulations. Fortunately I know not all Democrats are like the Far Left, so long as you don’t succed in sending all the good ones to the GOP or some new party in your purges.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:19 pmBUSH: “Just wait.”
This reminds me of the snappy comeback of Tommy Smothers “Oh yeah!”
“Just wait” … Bush is leaving it up to some future President to end what He started.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:21 pmW also linked Iraq to 911 in this article. I can go back to September 2002 when troops were being transfered to Kuwait from Afghanistan and provocative bombings were held against Iraqi military and civiian targets. It was at that time that I became convinced the W had gone bonkers.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:21 pmSeixon
Bush said: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.
Putin’s answer was more then on target, and showed that he was paying attention. Your repeated attempts to try and make it not-so aren’t working. The plain fact is that Bush didn’t have a point, he was talking out of his ass.
Anyway, its late here and I’m going to bed, goodnight all.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:22 pmSeixon #11:
Think Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin.
What next? All in the name of anti-Bush. Disgusting.
The real problem here is that we have to take Putin’s side. If we didn’t have such a dumb-add preznit, we wouldn’t be faced with that kind of choice.
As for being “anti-Bush”, Dubya is his won worst enemy. All TP was doing was quoting him….
Cheers,
July 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pmPLC,
spying without court order and Congressional oversight
Yes, I support monitoring calls between terrorist suspects overseas and American citizens, which was done with Congressional briefing and also briefing the FISA court.
torture
Yes, I support torture in very limited circumstances. My position on torture is that I would rather hurt a terrorist than have a dead innocent person on my hands.
detaining prisoners of war (or whatever) without benefit of counsel
I’m for following whatever the Geneva Convention states, which I don’t think is quite the same as you just said. Also, I would not apply the Geneva Conventions to terrorists, since they are not a party nor do they follow the Conventions. However, that does not mean I would support treating them like animals.
denying civil liberties to an oppressed group (homosexuals)
Eh, what? I’m all for giving gay people the same rights as anyone else. Watch it with those assumptions, I have stated this view at least a few times here.
paying for good press coverage and promotion of policies
When have I ever said that? Never. Sheesh. I supported the efforts to plant stories in Iraq, but not in the US. The reason for this is due to the circumstances in Iraq.
denying dissention during public appearances, paid by tax payers
Huh? WTF are you talking about? This is completely false.
treating corporations as individuals
Again, huh?
using “signing statements†to oppose legislation
Again, huh?
You are a Bush kool-aid drinker who tries to present himself as rational, reasoned, informed, and independent thinking.
You’ve misrepresented me on pretty much everything you listed, in addition to misrepresenting the issues themselves.
Alright, time to watch a movie, later guys.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:25 pmLoafingOaf
I don’t expect you to change your vote. By the sounds of it you are one of the 29% that simply will not know the truth, those so obliged to fool themselves as to never, ever look at what is really happening. You get your information from fox, I get mine from the South African Media, which last I saw was actually more free then America’s.
Okay, now I am going to bed. For real this time.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:26 pm- Seixon:
Yeah, when people threaten to publish my phone number and say they are going to post pictures of me molesting a little boy, that’s nothing. Right?
I don’t know about your phone number, Seixon, but I do know that your real name is a matter of public record, not just as a result of other blogs, but because you yourself have posted to other blogs under your real name. Anyone capable of using Google can discover this for themselves in a matter of minutes. I would imagine that, given your real name and your location (which you’re all too ready to trumpet about), deriving your phone number wouldn’t be too much of a chore (anyone with a degree in ‘computers’ ought to know that…). As for pictures of you molesting a little boy, we’ve already established that if said pictures do not exist, you have nothing to fear…and yet you continue to go on about it…odd, that…
You can’t spread your true identity all over the Internet and then whine when someone uses it against you. You can’t have it both ways.
I’m sure you’d think the same way if it were done to you.
I’m sure you’d know, since you did do it to me. You accused me of being the one threatening to publish your phone number as well as pictures of you molesting little boy. To date, you have not retracted that accusation.
Again, you can’t have it both ways, hypocrite.
People have actually called my family’s home. People have threatened to publish my phone number.
We’ve been over this. Quit beating your breast over it.
People have smeared me by saying they’d publish photos of me molesting a boy.
We’ve been over this too. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were continually harping on this to gain attention and sympathy…but of course, you’d never stoop that low, would you?
Hmm. Liars usually keep denying it when called on it, or run away.
These are certainly two strategies liars employ, but they are by no means the only ones. Another one (one which you employ ad nauseum, is claiming that your original statement was either ‘hasty’ or being misinterpreted, and then move the goalposts.
Again, this is not accurate at all. I’m not going to waste time digging up examples, so we’ll just leave this one for the dustbin.
Translation: “I can’t find any examples., so I’ll just imperiously dismiss this point and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt me.”
How’s that strategy working out so far?
I don’t speak well? Evidence of that? I doubt a Norwegian newspaper would give me access to their blog if that was the case.
Well, I guess stupidity’s out. Thanks so much for verifying that you are, in fact, a malicious liar.
(This isn’t even fun anymore…it’s just too easy.)
July 15th, 2006 at 5:27 pmMrTimPA,
I gave you the name for the source and I gave you a link as soon as I saw you asking for one. What more do you want? A latte? A comfortable pillow?
Comment by Seixon
I got it, thanks… Oh, do you want to tuck me in as well? But – it seems the thread has moved well beyond the “press freedom” numbers you originally dug your hole with. :) (funny that Norway has a 0.5 on that list…)
July 15th, 2006 at 5:30 pmdasein,
You are exaggerating for partisan purposes. That’s all I’m going to say to you.
seixon, what is exaggerated?
-presidential signing statements?
July 15th, 2006 at 5:31 pmhttp://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/
-the fourth amendment (illegal searches, ie. phone and bank records)
- fake journalists
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/09/white.house.reporter/index.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-06-williams-whitehouse_x.htm
Thanks unbelievable, for #292………
July 15th, 2006 at 5:32 pmI wonder if he has ever had his lead levels checked………
What a fool to get into a verbal sparring match with someone who is obviously much more adept at it than he.
I think Georgie is just jealous of Pootie Poo, and the power Putin has………….
The sad thing is how weak Bush is on democracy.
It is a strong possibility Bush, like Nixon, is spying on Democrats. Why else not go through FISA. They rubberstamp almost anything except the reason FISA was created: To stop Executive Branch spying on political opponents.
From the 12 hour lines to vote in Ohio, to purging voter roles Bush has not done democracy in America any favors.
The Republican leadership seems to want an elected dicator, but with them controlling the elections. Whatever it takes: Phone jamming in NH, calling a bronze star winner a coward, investing billions in Fox News and radio, bugging your own office, power will be theirs.
Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:32 pmI don’t understand why Think Progress regulars give time, retorts and space to obvious trolls like seixon whose paid job is to spread more lies from the wingnuts. He and others like MA work feverishly for the neocons and should not be given any attention. Let them post at their own sites, ignore them, they’re paid hacks!
July 15th, 2006 at 5:36 pmI think Georgie is just jealous of Pootie Poo, and the power Putin has………….
Comment by agua fiero — July 15, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
That’s pretty bad considering Putin isn’t much of a leader himself… :)
July 15th, 2006 at 5:41 pm@john doe
If it was just about the oil why does the US army go to such great length to kill the whole region — including their own soldiers — by using depleted uranium for every shell and bullet they fire? In case you missed it, google for “depleted uranium.” Or if you have a _very_ strong stomach google for images on the same keywords.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:42 pm- Outernet:
ignore them, they’re paid hacks!
I have my doubts about that…Seixon isn’t clever enough to get paid for spreading his ridiculous propaganda.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:43 pm[...] He may not know, but Putin knows and knows well. He responded with the jab – ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’ and seeing how things are going there, can you blame him? Click on the link and watch it live. [...]
July 15th, 2006 at 5:43 pmThought Reagan was an embarassment when he “misspoke” and fell asleep at world meetings, but George Bush takes the cake. Most ignorant president ever. If the Republicans ran Mickey Mouse they could get him elected. All it takes is money and a stupid electorate.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:44 pmI’ve only been reading Gregor, Spudge and TripMaster Monkey’s posts, as I’m allergic to Seixon’s rants… But I gotta say, Seixon they must pay you A LOT of money to be humiliated like this…
July 15th, 2006 at 5:44 pm#317 – unbelievable,
July 15th, 2006 at 5:49 pmI’m hurt.
Mr. Bush.
You’re embarrasing my country.
You’re simply not intellectually qualified to debate publically with other heads of states.
And to you Republicans. Aren’t you embarrased? Even a little?
July 15th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI don’t expect you to change your vote. By the sounds of it you are one of the 29% that simply will not know the truth, those so obliged to fool themselves as to never, ever look at what is really happening. You get your information from fox, I get mine from the South African Media, which last I saw was actually more free then America’s.
Ah, here’s the usual Far Left argument. Just say the person watches Fox News all day long.
I have no idea what percentage of the public agrees with my take on this or that or whatever issue. I arrive at my positions based on my principles, not polls. AndI don’t think truth is determined by polls either. I also seriously doubt the Think Progress community represents anything close to 29%, if you wanna go with polls to “prove” you’re right. Furthermore, you might not be aware of this but Bush will never run for elected office again, so you probably should start standing for more things than hating Bush before it’s too late.
With regard to comments I’ve made in this thread, the related principles I hold would be opposing genocides, opposing Islamic fascism, stopping nuclear proliferation, supporting democracy, wanting an effective United Nations, opposing dictators creating threats in this world.
Yeah, I feel okay about those principles. What are yoursthat made you sorry Uday Hussein couldn’t inherit Iraq from his daddy, just as you’re sorry Zarqawi didn’t destroy the new and elected Iraqi government? That lead you to give Putin a blow job for all his wonderful deeds in this world? Or could it be you don’t have any principles and you’re just a small person who only cares about hating Bush?
As far as my vote, it has always been open to Democrats winning it. Your assumption that anyone who disagrees with Think Progress’ worldview on foreign policy is a partisan Republican is laughable, but I guess it’s to be expected from a web site that is best described as a groupthink community. I clearly implied that I’d be disappointed if good Democrats flee their party, which is because I do not want single-party rule, something I consider unhealthy. How would forcing Lieberman to run as an independent, and doing so for a lightweight like Lamont, help your party this fall? Bill Clinton came out today and condemn the purging of Lieberman as pure idiocy. Again, I’m glad the Far Left doesn’t represent the whole Democratic Party. You’ll find that out more and more as we approach 2008.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:55 pmHaha, I see it’s a waste of my time to communicate with a groupthink web site. Ren says it sounds like Bush if you point out that truth isn’t determined by opinion polls. Ooookay, you go with that. Does that mean gay marriage is wrong because polls say most, today, oppose it? I sure don’t agree with that majority opinion, because again I follow my principles which lead me to supporting gay rights. I’m leaving…..carry on….
July 15th, 2006 at 6:07 pmLoafingOaf,
You miss the point. This “Bush hating” is a disagreement with policy, domestic and international. Bush won’t run again, but the republican congress agrees with his policies, he is the figure head of that party. the republican party and lieberman represent failed policy. that’s what we are railing against. if both are ousted, that’s democracy in action. by the way, lieberman is a good republican, not a good democrat.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:07 pmthat’s real constructive, ren.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:25 pmTwo leaders babbling like children, so what’s new??
July 15th, 2006 at 6:27 pmI haven’t read all of the posts here but I end up with an overwhelming question nagging at me after reading the first 100 or so. That is, why is our monkey assuming the right to tell any other country’s monkey what type of government they should have? Why are any of you concerned with which country has the best looking dick?
Remember, our monkey is only there because he is too stupid to stop the real president (the real Dick) from doing as he pleases. He is so easy to manipulate that he just keeps the attention off of the real deciders.
Anyone here who would defend Dubya has to be an idiot. Anyone here who thinks it matters a whit what kind of government Russia has needs to take a hell of a lot closer look at what kind of government we have.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:30 pmPartisan politics are useless and pointless. All governments crack down on dissent in one fashion or another. If iraqis, afghans, russians, and americans want freedom, they cannot depend on their own governments and should not ally with them in any single way. They should learn lessons from the Russian and Spanish revolutions; joining forces with authoritarian factions only leads to political purges, gulags, and a very repressive government in the end, since they always turn on their own people to eliminate threats to the established order. As for free elections, the winners always steal them to gain power. Hitler said “Only one thing could have stopped our movement. If our adversaries had understood its principle, and from the first day had smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.” Defeating authoritarianism will take effort, regardless which side fascists are on. “Fascism is not to be debated. It is to be smashed…”
July 15th, 2006 at 6:35 pm- Buenaventura Durritti, Spanish Anarchist revolutionary, 1936.
Man, I guess a true “monkey” would prefer people to live in communism. Way to look after your fellow man oldranger68. Hell, why should we care when other people are denied basic freedoms that we take advantage of every day. As long as we get our ESPN and Paris Hilton updates, SCREW EVERYBODY ELSE………..
July 15th, 2006 at 6:36 pmAs for free elections, the winners always steal them to gain power.
by anarchistmanifesto
Wow, why should we even vote?
July 15th, 2006 at 6:39 pmI love Vlad!!!
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
July 15th, 2006 at 6:48 pmWould a few U.S. citizens being killed in Beirut be a good thing? Yes
http://www.sunstetactivist.org/ssablog.php
Anarchistmanifesto, liberals are hopeless………………
;-)
July 15th, 2006 at 6:52 pm[...] The stars go out of Bush’s eyes as Putin breaks off from the official script and gets a laugh. Good friend Vlad doesn’t want Iraq style democracy, George. *sigh* Here’s The Heretik vid on YouTube now. [...]
July 15th, 2006 at 6:54 pmI love Vlad!!!
Comment by LCLiberal
Freedom of speech, it’s alive and well on the net. Enjoy it.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:56 pm“CNN’s Ed Henry called it a “tough jab.â€
Ed Henry, third place talking head, thinks Putins’ remarks were a tough jab?? Ed probably thinks a butter knife is dangerous….
But when you realize who is assisting Iran with engineering assistance for their nuclear
“PLANT” (and you watch progs defend our enemies and those who help them) please quit feigning anger when we call you the traitors you so clearly are.
“In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one’s nation. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran’s Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: “…a…citizen’s actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the nation.” – http://www.reference.com
July 15th, 2006 at 6:56 pm“Wow, why should we even vote?”
Exactly.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:59 pmTell me Jim, What basic freedoms do we have left to take care of every day? If you want to take care of your damned fellow man then get out of everyone elses business and start minding our own. It is time for the people in other countries to look after their own freedoms or lack thereof. We should be looking to our own. What are you, the bleeding heart for the world?
July 15th, 2006 at 6:59 pmthe USofA
the beacon of freedom democracy etc… right
hahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
pathetic
July 15th, 2006 at 7:05 pmWell let’s see oldranger68. Someone’s Monkey told their monkeys to fly planes into buildings so they could kill innocent monkeys and make some kind of statement about why they should be top monkey of the Earth? Hmmm, maybe you grasp it? They hit US on OUR soil. Who was minding their buisness then?
July 15th, 2006 at 7:07 pmJim,
http://alreadytoolate.blogspot.com/2006/07/who-will-liberate-us.html#links
July 15th, 2006 at 7:09 pmoldranger68
Your silence is overwhelming……
July 15th, 2006 at 7:15 pmGeorge AWOL Bush really leads with his chin. When you go head-to-head with a former head of the KGB, it behoves you to keeps your wits about you. You don’t get to be head of the KGB on a double-digit IQ, just president of the USA. When Dumbshit George debates with equals rather than subordinates he’s going to get his ass whipped.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:19 pmoldranger68
I went to your web suggestion. Did you write that?
July 15th, 2006 at 7:21 pmEvery American should be embarrassed by this fool of a President. I’m terrified to think of how much more damage Bush can do until the world is free of his incompetence.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:30 pmoldranger68
I’m a vet to. I even work at the VA now. That was some wild stuff man. I can’t say I agree with ALL of it, but I can see where your coming from at least. You were in some wild stuff…..
July 15th, 2006 at 7:34 pmUnless of course Rove is feeding him lines. You do remember the presidential debates, right? Rove may be Satan’s protege, but he’s smart.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:36 pmHas anyone else had enough of the embaressment that Dubya has fostered on the nation? i have…
July 15th, 2006 at 7:38 pmIn a long academic study, covered well in John Dean’s new book: Conservatives Without Conscience – this is the conclusion, of Conservatives 28% were willing to unquestionably follow an authoritarian leader.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:40 pmA mere 1% of Independents and Liberals would.
Now liars don’t figure – and figures don’t lie. What do these figures tell you?
It’s also been shown that the more educated one is the more apt they would be of Liberal or Independent mind.
So hail to the wing-nuts such as those we can sewer as they constantly display their ignorance and limitations so naively. What easy targets they make.
Here’s the scary part, 28% of the people you pass every day are fascist followers that would jump off a cliff if bush ordered it and take as many of us along with them.
I bet your red in the face Irish. Poor thing, your so sensitive…..
July 15th, 2006 at 7:42 pmIt’s also been shown that the more educated one is the more apt they would be of Liberal or Independent mind.
Gonnuts
That is not true and you know it. Your name speaks for itself.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:45 pm2005 2004 2003 2002
U.S. in Iraq 137 108 135 not listed
Iraq 157 148 125 130
Russia 138 140 148 122
U.S. 44 23 32 17
(Source: REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS)
Perhaps I’m a day late and dollar short, but putting my thoughts down anyway. While the exchange between Seixon and others was on whether or not Iraq or Russia have more of a free press based on Seixon’s source (Reporters without Borders)… here are the ratings for the U.S. (both “in Iraq” and independently), Iraq and Russia. The change between our very own rating from 2002 to 2005 is quite telling in itself. Thank you for the source Seixon, one you consider credible… it shows that during this Administration our very own “free press” is compromised. A drop of 27 points!!
July 15th, 2006 at 7:46 pmU.S. in Iraq 2005 = 137 2004 = 108 2003 = 135 2002 not listed
Iraq 157 148 125 130
Russia 138 140 148 122
U.S. 44 23 32 17
Sorry the columns didn’t line up. These are the figures for the years 2005 to 2002.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:49 pmBush has been lying since he was expunged from the womb. He is not capable of making any statement that is “basically true.”
July 15th, 2006 at 7:50 pmGonnuts, maybe your right, just read timeisart’s comment. THE IVY LEAGUE HAS INVADED TP BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or are you guys from Berkley?
July 15th, 2006 at 7:54 pmTo Jim – ah, I sooo love it when I get a fish on the hook such as yourself.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:54 pmThis is but one of many studies I have reference to: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506877 – if you should require more I would be more than happy to provide you to show you up for the “bushit, fascist, follow-over-the-cliff, fool I can expose – scratch that – the fool you will expose yourself to be.
“Just wait.” – is that a threat?
Seixon
For somebody who lives in Norway(a country bordering Russia) you seem to know next to nothing about my country.
70% of the population are by birth Eastern Orthodox Christians, not “Atheists”, Atheism is a belief not a religion, not being “true believers” does not mean most Russian people are “atheists”, most Russians understand that religion has no business in major every day life decisions. At the same time the rest of the 30% are: Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, and Native religions. Every religion(except Satanism) can build its own temples in Russia. The Russian Republic of Kalmykia for example, has the largest Buddhist Temple in Europe.
As far as Media Freedom, here is the truth, there are only 4 major TV channels in Russia under the control of government friendly leaders, one of them “Zvezda” is a military channel so that should not even be surprising. But you want to know something? The Best Quality Programming comes from those channels, the cheap private channels only show foreign shows and movies. Only about 30% of newspapers have government backing.
Now lets compare that to Iraq. There are 3 major TV channels there as far as I know. 2 of them are controlled by the US, Al Arabiya and Al Iraqiya. Al Jazeera is controlled by Qatar. Hardly “free” from US censorship. Iraqi Newspapers have claimed they are forced to print US propaganda.
Iraq’s Media freedom is 100 times worse than Russia, I guarantee you, if you don’t believe me then buy a train/plane ticket to Russia and see for yourself.
St. Petersburg right now has over 1,000 foreign journalists going around the city without the fear of being shot or blown up, compare that to Iraq.
The above quotes are incomplete. Putin said later:
“Only Russians know what kind of government is best for them, it is up to Russians to decide. Russians will continue to develop their country guided by democratic principles.”
July 15th, 2006 at 7:55 pmI’m still afraid of Russia, like Seixon is.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:02 pmTo Jim – ah, I sooo love it when I get a fish on the hook such as yourself.
This is but one of many studies I have reference to: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506877 – if you should require more I would be more than happy to provide you to show you up for the “bushit, fascist, follow-over-the-cliff, fool I can expose – scratch that – the fool you will expose yourself to be.
Comment by Gonnuts — July 15, 2006 @ 7:54 pm
I have to admint Gonnuts, you must be college educated, you must have been an English major. The way you put thought into words. The way you illustrate yourself. Why even bother talking to an inferior person like myself. You just said that a college education makes a person intelligent, and if not college educated, YOUR A DUMN ASS IDIOT……… How deep. How do you come up with such extreme intelligence?
July 15th, 2006 at 8:04 pmI’m sorry Gonnuts, I spelled dumb as dumn. I knew I should have learnt how to read!!!!!!!!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:10 pmAfraid of what? Russians are not the ones acting aggressively against the US. Russian Media is not calling Bush a pseudo-dictator like the US media frequently does Putin. It is Russians that should be worried by US government plans for Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
Yes Americans may be puzzled by my comment, but Russia is not aggresively building military bases on US borders, but US is building them on Russia’s borders. How should Russians react to violations of our birthplace(originally Ukraine) by the US?
July 15th, 2006 at 8:10 pmThey have democracy in Russia?! When did that happen, when Reagan torn down that wall?
July 15th, 2006 at 8:11 pmI did it again Gonnuts. I meant to say I should have learnt how to spell instead of how to read. Those Dick and Jane books didn’t do crap!!!!!!!!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:12 pmFace it – bush is an embarrassment.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:16 pmThe “regular guy” thing isn’t cute anymore (never was). When asked the other day a serious question about the escalating violence, bush cracks a joke about “the pig” he was looking forward to eat. For crying out loud! People are DYING and this vapor man is making jokes?
HE’S THE JOKE!
But it’s NOT a joke and it’s not funny, when America is considered the biggest threat to world peace by a large majority of nations because of this most arrogant of men.
Again – the scary part. This most depleted, amoral man has the finger on the trigger of the world’s largest cast of WMD’s. And before bush, or any of his followers, will admit that they may have been wrong (they don’t have the intellectual capacity) they’ll pull that trigger.
Andrei Komarov
Didn’t Bush’s viceroy in Iraq ban Al Jazeera for not broadcasting enough happy-talk news?
July 15th, 2006 at 8:21 pmAndrie Kornarov,
We just spent half a century doing the Cold War, where the Soviets thought the
July 15th, 2006 at 8:22 pmAmericans wanted “world domination” and the Americans thought the Soviets wanted “world domination”. Any person who believes the United States of America wants to take over the world is, not in touch with reality. THERE IS NO PROOF THE UNITED STATES WANTS TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD. None. A conspiracy is not proof my friends on TP. PROOF. There is none. CONSPIRACY…… There are plenty. The ex members of the Soviet Union have the right to build their nations militaries as they see to prevent another fifty years of being occupied by communism.
What’s really funny is that W was trying to kiss Putin’s ass… ‘he’s a strong man’… what a fool!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:28 pmGonnuts,
Way to change the subject man. Bush graduated FROM A IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL. HELL, HE IS ENLIGHTENED BY YOUR BIG FAT STATS. College = Common sence. It’s funny, when the cold war ends, all the sudden, Germany and France and Italy and Canada and the BBC, have a problem with the United States. All of those years we spent billions upon billions upon billions of dollars to defend the U.S. and all of the free world against communism, all of our friends decided to spend hardly nothing on their national defense, and a ton of money on social issues. No wonder Eastern Europe gets it straight compared to “old Europe”.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:30 pmJim – ah again you are so easy … no “proof” that America isn’t looking for “World domination”? OK – than please explain the why Untied States has a military presents in 108 countries? You might also want to answer why the United States spends 40 times MORE on weapons and military than the rest of the world COMBINED!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:33 pmAgain, if you need the links I have a long list of honored studies to choose from. But being you didn’t challenge me on the last one I can only speculate you’re again left twisting in the wind.
It is toooo easy to YAWWWWNNN reading the posts of self-loathing AmeribRATS. Brought up believing their “feelings” were of paramount importance, they were duly crushed when they realized few people cared – mostly because other people have lives of their own. Sadly, ANGST has become the feeling of the day for fashionable progs. And unfortunately, they must really be sad that beloved Dem President Bill Clinton STUCK up for the traitor to prog causes, Joe Lieberman. In fact, our former President said, ‘”Why send a signal about when you’re going to leave to people trying to keep Iraq divided? Would you make any political deals if you knew you could just hang around and maybe get what you want?”
I always knew he was a pretty smart guy – the morals of a he-whore – but a pretty smart guy….
July 15th, 2006 at 8:38 pmI spent two years in Germany Gonnuts, one of your 108 countries. Why was I there? I’m not teaching you a history lesson tonight man. I don’t have the time or the energy. We got troops in Japan also. What the? England to. Those damn Brits. AGIAN, PROOF GONNUTS. Not conspiracy. We spend have always spent more than the rest of the world on the military. WOULD YOU HAVE RATHER THE SOVIETS HAVE SPENT MORE? WOULD YOU RATHER CHINA SPEND MORE? Man, I’m glad you a fellow American Gonnuts, if you weren’t, I’d be afraid for your freedom of speech and safety. WE’RE ON THE SAME SIDE DUDE…….
July 15th, 2006 at 8:41 pmJim – 50% of all graduates were in the lower half of their class. bush was barely a grade-C student and was let into Yale only because he was a pledge. By bush’s own admittance he was a self proclaimed “party animal” who basically drank his way through college. There are many educated fools. bush is the “poster-boy”.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:42 pmThis is your “shining example” – this is how you “put me down”? LOL – please STOP!
No don’t! Keep making a fool of yourself – this is fun!
We’re making progress in Iraq!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:45 pmBullshit. It’s all bullshit.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:46 pmWhat is democracy?
July 15th, 2006 at 8:47 pmGonnuts,
I wish I knew Ivy league schools took pledges to be admitted. I would’nt have gone to at state university. Damn stupid ordinary people, I could have been an elite. Oh well, that’s history. I’m not putting you down man, I may disagree with you, but I’m not putting you down. That’s not cool. And that’s not me.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:48 pmBush is full of SHIT. His administration is full of shit, his talk of democracy is empty and meaningless, he’s incompetent, arrogant, immature, and corrupt. He has managed to turn the world against us with his stubborn, elitist, I don’t give a shit what you think attitude and I hope he burns in eternal HELL.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:48 pmA wise person once told me, ‘democracy is a dream’. Like any ideology. They would all work if it wasn’t for greed. Communism would work if the State made sure of an equitable distribution of wealth.
We are all slaves waiting for the master to die, and hoping to inherit the estate.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:53 pmLike Putin even knowns the word “Democracy”
But then again the Demms think that losing an election means they actually won. So I guess the Demms and Putin have no clue here on what Democracy is.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:53 pmThe biggest disgrace and embrassment of my lifetime. I’ll take Tricky Dick or Slick Willie over this clown any day of the weak. At least Nixon and Clinton had intellects that were suitable for the Presidency whatever their personal weaknesses were. I sure hope that all who have responded to this blog are doing more then sitting down typing away in their basements. It’s not about any party per se anymore. It’s about reclaiming our country and the principles and ideals that we all remember. We have got to get these poor excuses for Americans out of office. I served four years in the Army and I did not give Unlce Sam four years of my life so that the country I love could be utterly abused and subject to the kind of ridicule and scorn that it now receives daily by the rest of the world. Putin knew that he was dealing with a light weight when he first met Bush. So did North Korea. I am one of those “black republicans and have been for twenty years. I refuse to let these idiots disgrace the “Party of Lincoln.” Write your Congressmen and support progressive candidates whether they be republican or democrat. There’s a virus that is killing us as a nation and we must destroy it before it destroys us. Peace.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:59 pmWell said, Militantone!
July 15th, 2006 at 9:01 pmBush is a clueless moron, an inarticulate fool, who happens to be leader of the free world. To have him dissed in a public forum by another world leader is an embarrassment to this nation and to the intelligence of the American people who allowed him to take office. While we should never trust Putin, we must recognize his place in the world and that of Russia. Bush made a fool of himself regarding Putin years ago, and Putin must still be laughing inside at Bush saying he saw into his “soul.”
July 15th, 2006 at 9:04 pmBush is a casual, informal leader who does not respect diplomacy and statesmanship; he does not recognize the importance of them either because in 6 years he has not botherred to educate himself; and because of that and his misguided policies and advisors, he gets into situations like this that expose his stupidity and incompetence for all to see.
He is a dangerously ignorant politician to be in charge in these dangerous times. He makes us all look bad – the world wide chaos, disease, starvation, war, death and destruction is only made worse by his lack of comprehension, lack of creativity of ideas, lack of knowledge of history and geography, lack of understanding of global cultures and religions, neglect of important issues, and his extraordinary lack of ability to speak as a leader.
Jim – again you can’t see the forest for the trees. You have to ask yourself “why” are we in places that are NOT our enemies? Germany? Japan? Aren’t they by now capable of protecting their own interests? We’re all over Central and South America, and Asia. Why? To “protect American interests”. Hm-mm, and what interests are those? The United Fruit Company? WalMark? Coke-cola? or any other multinational company that is paying off the likes of those politicians eager to take their money as they screw us out of our rights, liberties, bust-up unions as we watch our jobs evaporate overseas?
July 15th, 2006 at 9:07 pmYeah, right, we’re not looking to take over the world?
Go read the “Statement of Mission” on the neo-con site “Project for a New American Century” where it says ” … the United States should used it’s military might and economic advantage to control the worlds remaining resources”. Go on, all your favorites are there with their signatures, bush, cheney, wolfowiltz, rumsfeld, feith, all of them.
I know “facts” are an inconvenient truth to you – but again – I can back-up what I say.
Can you? Nahhh, rhetoric, just over and over. As I mentioned, you don’t have the intellectual prowess to do such. You’re a bushit. Talking to you is like talking to a brick. But it’s still fun showing you up for what you are. After all how would we know a fascist if there were none to point out?
The last time I visited Russia was in 1985. Getting into and out of the country required a duplicate passport and a Visa. The airport X-ray machines would convert film that was not in protective containers to blocks of red when developed. Once through the gauntlet, one was as free as anyone would be in any European city and more so than in any American city (most vividly today).
July 15th, 2006 at 9:10 pmbush was a pledge because his father was a Yale graduate …
July 15th, 2006 at 9:13 pmTripMaster,
I don’t know about your phone number, Seixon, but I do know that your real name is a matter of public record, not just as a result of other blogs, but because you yourself have posted to other blogs under your real name.
Wow, you must have done your research on me buddy. Yes, my name is out there. That doesn’t mean that it would be easy for just anyone to find it. Only those savvy with Google would be able to. That wasn’t even the point. The point is that there is no reason for anyone to come on here and start posting my name. That’s why Think Progress has rules against doing just that.
Anyone capable of using Google can discover this for themselves in a matter of minutes.
Yes, if they know what they’re doing, which is hardly that many.
I would imagine that, given your real name and your location (which you’re all too ready to trumpet about), deriving your phone number wouldn’t be too much of a chore (anyone with a degree in ‘computers’ ought to know that…).
Quite correct, but again, only those who know what they’re doing would get anywhere. In fact, those knowing what they’re doing could easily find my phone number here in Norway.
As for pictures of you molesting a little boy, we’ve already established that if said pictures do not exist, you have nothing to fear…and yet you continue to go on about it…odd, that…
That wasn’t the point, the point was someone smearing me by claiming that such pictures exist.
You can’t spread your true identity all over the Internet and then whine when someone uses it against you. You can’t have it both ways.
I didn’t “spread it all over the internet”. Anyways, that’s not the point, the point is that it’s cheap and completely unethical for someone to throw it around where I am not using it. Again, I will direct you to the Think Progress Terms of Use.
I’m sure you’d know, since you did do it to me. You accused me of being the one threatening to publish your phone number as well as pictures of you molesting little boy. To date, you have not retracted that accusation.
Eh, what? I already apologized for thinking that you were the one who did it. I had good reasons to believe it was you, as I already explained. In any case, I still can’t know whether it was actually you or not.
Again, you can’t have it both ways, hypocrite.
OK, so my name is out there, and that makes it OK for anyone to publish it here, where it is not given? Where it violates the Terms of Use for Think Progress?
We’ve been over this. Quit beating your breast over it.
I will as soon as you stop making jokes about it and try to pretend that you’re at least a little bit concerned over the privacy of other people who just happen to be people you disagree with.
We’ve been over this too. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were continually harping on this to gain attention and sympathy…but of course, you’d never stoop that low, would you?
The only reason I brought it up is because you made a joke at my expense while it was going on.
These are certainly two strategies liars employ, but they are by no means the only ones. Another one (one which you employ ad nauseum, is claiming that your original statement was either ‘hasty’ or being misinterpreted, and then move the goalposts.
I guess there’s really nothing I could say that would make you believe I wasn’t lying because you could just say “that’s what liars do” for anything I said. The fact that I would have been absolutely correct had we been in 2003 right now doesn’t seem to matter much when you’re obsessed with calling me a liar.
Translation: “I can’t find any examples., so I’ll just imperiously dismiss this point and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt me.â€
Seriously, you don’t waste time trying to prove my “lies”, I’m not going to waste time digging up stuff either.
Well, I guess stupidity’s out. Thanks so much for verifying that you are, in fact, a malicious liar.
Huh? Because I write for a Norwegian blog? Ehhhh… What?
July 15th, 2006 at 9:14 pmHe is a dangerously ignorant politician to be in charge in these dangerous times. He makes us all look bad – the world wide chaos, disease, starvation, war, death and destruction is only made worse by his lack of comprehension, lack of creativity of ideas, lack of knowledge of history and geography, lack of understanding of global cultures and religions, neglect of important issues, and his extraordinary lack of ability to speak as a leader.
Marie
Let’s see Marie, in the last five and a half years, Bush has made world wide chaos, disease, starvation, war, death and destruction worse because of his lack of comprehension, lack of creativiy of ideas and lack of knowledge of history and geography, oh and also his lack of cultures and religions. Oh, and neglect of important issues and his inability to speak as a leader.
I MUST HAVE MISSED SOMETHING MARIE. WHAT WOULD YOU OR ANY OTHER LEADER DO ANY DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST IS NOT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I’M SORRY, I WISHED HE WAS, BUT HE ISN’T! THAT DAMN JIMMY CARTER’S TERM RAN OUT. BILL CLINTON IS BEING, WELL BILL CLINTON. MAYBE WE CAN RAISE EISTEIN FROM THE GRAVE!
Go to a Dairy Queen and have a damn blizzard or something. Make sure its the one with Prozac in it. Give me a break.
It’s easy to bitch, but WHAT IN THE HELL WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENT!
July 15th, 2006 at 9:16 pmJim – doing just about the opposite of anything bush has done would work better …
July 15th, 2006 at 9:24 pmGonnuts,
Boy, that education of yours is really kicking in. Instead of debating, your calling me a fascist. I may be alot of things, but fascist? You didn’t call me a fascist when I served my country for four years did you? To protect YOU Gonnuts. And you know what, I’m proud that I did, and I would do it again but I’m getting old now and I have a family now. I bet your a blast on the 4th of July or Veteran’s Day. Yeah, I must be a fascist. Shouldn’t you use Nazi instead. I think it’s more to the point. Sounds more dramatic. I wonder how many countries have troops from different nations in them? Oh, I’m sorry, that’s a debate thing. God forbid we do those.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:27 pmJim – doing just about the opposite of anything bush has done would work better …
Comment by Gonnuts — July 15, 2006 @ 9:24 pm
BE SPECIFIC MR ELITE. Not the answer I expected from a superior college educated liberal. Oh, I mean elite. Come on Archy, anyone can bitch, specifically what would you do different?
July 15th, 2006 at 9:30 pminteresting:
Your search - â€Why send a signal about when you’re going to leave to people trying to keep Iraq divided?” – did not match any documents.
could that be a paraphrase? or at best, someone’s take on a quote?
July 15th, 2006 at 9:30 pmdoesn’t seem right to use quotation marks and the phrase “our former President said”, unless it’s an exact quotation… a link would be helpful…
They hit US on OUR soil. Who was minding their buisness then?
Comment by COMMENT BY JIM — July 15, 2006 @ 7:07 pm
it sure as hell wasn’t the PRESIDENT, who couldn’t be bothered to read a PDB that warned of an IMPENDING ATTACK.
enough with you…
July 15th, 2006 at 9:33 pmren,
Your collection of quotes proves exactly what I said. The Bush administration said Iraq had connections with al Qaeda, but never alleged Iraq was involved in 9/11. The “guilt-by-association” thing doesn’t fly, buddy. Iraq did meet with al Qaeda, Iraq did have contacts with al Qaeda, although there are disputes about certain things, such as the training in poisons and gases.
None of that tied Iraq to 9/11. Sure, a lot of dumb people probably connected Iraq to 9/11 because they thought that hey, Iraq was having contact with al Qaeda, that must mean they had something to do with 9/11. That can’t be helped. That type of thing happens all the time. You can’t prevent people from being dumb.
Dick Cheney, asked in September 2001 by Tim Russert on Meet the Press if they had any evidence that Iraq had something to do with 9/11… responded:
No.
Should be pretty clear, right? Have a read of Cheney’s interview a year later. Any literate person would never get the idea that Iraq was involved in 9/11 from this interview.
Andrei,
70% of the population are by birth Eastern Orthodox Christians, not “Atheistsâ€, Atheism is a belief not a religion, not being “true believers†does not mean most Russian people are “atheistsâ€, most Russians understand that religion has no business in major every day life decisions.
All the sources I checked say that around 70% of Russians are areligious, I should probably not have said atheists, as they could be agnostics as well.
Iraq’s Media freedom is 100 times worse than Russia, I guarantee you, if you don’t believe me then buy a train/plane ticket to Russia and see for yourself.
Again, I go by what Russian journalists report to Reporters Without Borders. Perhaps your sense of national pride is getting the best of you here, as what you are saying is not reflected by journalists in your own country, or where you are from.
txlvn,
It appears that you didn’t realize that each year has a different amount of countries listed, so going by what number they are ranked is misleading. You have to look at the score they were given, not their rank.
The USA’s numbers are:
2002: 4.75
July 15th, 2006 at 9:37 pm2003: 6.00
2004: 4.00
2005: 9.50
katy,
it sure as hell wasn’t the PRESIDENT, who couldn’t be bothered to read a PDB that warned of an IMPENDING ATTACK.
Go read the PDB, as it seems you aren’t aware of its contents.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:38 pmKaty, reality maybe difficult for you, but sooner or later you have to face it. PDB. PDB. I’m not blaming Clinton for not killing Bin Laden when he had a chance, and I’m blaming Bush for being in office when a multi year attack plan finally took place.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:40 pmJim,
July 15th, 2006 at 9:41 pmI didn’t say he CAUSED these things – I said all these things have gotten far worse in part because of his obvious faults and lack of leadership.
I stand by that – the world looks to its leaders and Bush is a phenomenally abysmal failure.
Jim – what? America doesn’t have ANY fascists? No Nazi Party either? And just because you served in the Armed Services makes you a “true” American? Maybe you missed the recent articles “Are We Recruiting a Skin-Head Army”? As if the military isn’t a prefect breeding ground for such since bush has nearly totally ruined it by lowering the standards so much that the likes of those that have recently committed horrendous crimes in Haitha and the gang-rape of a 14-year-old? Not to mention Abu-Grad.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:42 pmLook, for the most part I believe that those that serve the military are honorable men and women. But even in the best of circumstances they’re pawns for those that send them to kill for means other than stated. A famous General once said: “War is a scam to enrich the few at the expense of the many”.
So no matter how “honorable” you were as a soldier – you were still used.
katy,
To help you out, here it is.
There is no warning of an impending attack.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:43 pmThere is information saying that they have reports of surveillance, reports of various possible plans, which had not been corroborated.
It never warns that an attack is actually going to happen.
[...] Hardly the point but the howls from across the Pacific for Uncle Joe’s heir apparent are still rippling across the waves: The exchange underscores how the war in Iraq has damaged the standing of the United States, to the point where even modest encouragement for democratic reform is met with ridicule. [...]
July 15th, 2006 at 9:49 pmWhen you join the military Gonnuts, you JOIN THE MILITARY. You don’t take over the military for a political cause. I never said that there is no facists in America. Skin heads are not allowed in the Army. And you just convicted soldiers of rape before they even had a trial.
I joined the military to serve my country. HELL YEAH THEY USED ME. JUST LIKE FORD MOTORS USES THEIR EMPLOYEES. I had an advantage over the 18 year old that joined straight out of high school. I had four years of college experience before I went in. No, I wasn’t an elite, I was a proud American that wanted to serve my country. I signed during the Desert Storm. And, I’ve got to go, because my son is asleep and my wife is after my ass to get off the computer.
But I’ve enjoyed it Gonnuts. Even though I’m sorry to let you down due to the fact that I’m not a fascist…..
July 15th, 2006 at 9:50 pmWHAT WOULD YOU OR ANY OTHER LEADER DO ANY DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!!
Is that a question or a statement? Let’s see. Well first, I would get rid of the whole of the current administration, and I would have honorable, truthful, believers of the constitution, of humanity, of peace. It certainly would NOT BE WHAT WE HAVE NOW!
July 15th, 2006 at 9:51 pmin the last five and a half years, Bush has made world wide chaos, disease, starvation, war, death and destruction worse because of his lack of comprehension, lack of creativiy of ideas and lack of knowledge of history and geography, oh and also his lack of cultures and religions. Oh, and neglect of important issues and his inability to speak as a leader.
Comment by COMMENT BY JIM — July 15, 2006 @ 9:16 pm
By Jove, I think he’s got it!!! CONGRATULATIONS!
July 15th, 2006 at 9:52 pmAll I can say, is that the bush worshippers must be very worried. Their rhetoric, though, is getting very tiresome.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:52 pmComment by Marie
Marie, I said that you said Bush made things worse, I didn’t say that you said he caused them. I repect your opinion but I disagree with you. Still fun to talk though.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:54 pmSeixon – let’s see (as Condi so put it) I think it was titled “binLaden DETREMINED to Attack Within the United States”.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:54 pmHm-mm, seems pretty plain to any half-intelligent person.
Of course maybe you missed bush’s answer to the CIA agent that brought the message, “OK, you’ve covered your ass. You can go now.” Then of course bush continued on his vacation.
Your vapidness is only match by the way you try to defend the indefensible.
Seixon wrote:
Yes, Russia’s press is less free than Iraq’s.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:59 pm
- Seixon:
Wow, you must have done your research on me buddy. Yes, my name is out there. That doesn’t mean that it would be easy for just anyone to find it. Only those savvy with Google would be able to.
‘Research’? You’re kidding, right? It took me about ten seconds of googling ’seixon’ to locate this article.
Sure…only those who are ’savvy with Google’ could have possibly uncovered this information….only those who are capable of typing ’seixon’ into a search engine, that is.
Seixon, I don’t know who gave you that degree in ‘computers’, but you really ought to demand your box tops back.
Anyways, that’s not the point, the point is that it’s cheap and completely unethical for someone to throw it around where I am not using it. Again, I will direct you to the Think Progress Terms of Use.
Which I have not broken, despite your slanderous accusations to the contrary. Tell me again why this is relevant. Oh, that’s right…it’s NOT relevant…but that’s your whole point, isn’t it?
Eh, what? I already apologized for thinking that you were the one who did it.
Is that a fact? That’s funny…I don’t recall any such apology. Kindly link to the relevant post or subscribe yourself a liar yet again.
The only reason I brought it up is because you made a joke at my expense while it was going on.
Can’t stop distorting the facts, can you?
AGAIN,
What you said:
And what I said:
If the following exchange wounds you to the point of protest, perhaps you’d be better off sticking to you own blog, where you can set the rules. After all, that’s how Bill O’Reilly compensates for his inadequacies…
Seriously, you don’t waste time trying to prove my “liesâ€, I’m not going to waste time digging up stuff either.
Are you kidding? That’s all I do here. Exposing your duplicitiousness and treachery is a full-time job. Just read through our posting history.
Huh? Because I write for a Norwegian blog? Ehhhh… What?
NO, obtuse-boy…because you’re touting your oratory skills. Earlier I said that whether your obtuseness was due to malice or stupidity was open to further debate. Then, you pointed out that a Norwegian newspaper giving you access to your blog was proof that you ’spoke well’. Given this argument, I was forced to conclude that your obtuseness was in fact deliberate….due to maliciousness.
(You know, when I have to waste a paragraph explaining how you stand condemmed by your own statements, it detracts a smidge from the victory. I’d ask you to refrain and graciously admit when you’re beaten, but of course, you’ve shown yourself to be far too petty to allow that…)
Once again, thanks so much for all your help. Keep up the bad work.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:00 pmTripMaster Monkey – LOL – tip-of-the-hat – Seixon is such an easy mark. But thank god for him, how else, if not for him, could we expose his vapidness?
July 15th, 2006 at 10:07 pmTripMaster, Seixon is a lonely soul who thrives on negative attention to validate his pathetic existence. I have stopped giving him that attention. I recommend you do the same. Eventually he will go elsewhere, hopefully outside and meet live people.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:12 pmGonnuts,
I’m determined to get married, have kids, and buy a house. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen tomorrow.
TripMaster,
‘Research’? You’re kidding, right? It took me about ten seconds of googling ’seixon’ to locate this article.
Sure…only those who are ’savvy with Google’ could have possibly uncovered this information….only those who are capable of typing ’seixon’ into a search engine, that is.
Seixon, I don’t know who gave you that degree in ‘computers’, but you really ought to demand your box tops back.
Actually, I find that article on the 19th page of searching Google for “seixon”. You managed to scan each result page in half a second? Boy, you must be some type of robot. Either that or a liar. Hmmm.
Kindly link to the relevant post or subscribe yourself a liar yet again.
I’m sorry to inform you that Judd deleted it, as he deleted all my posts after the last one you wrote. If you don’t believe me, ask him yourself.
If the following exchange wounds you to the point of protest, perhaps you’d be better off sticking to you own blog, where you can set the rules.
While someone is threatening me and harassing me, you post a joke. I think that’s pretty pathetic. You’re probably the guy in primary school who, when walking by a kid being teased and harassed by bullies, made a crack about their weight.
After all, that’s how Bill O’Reilly compensates for his inadequacies…
And how do you compensate for yours? Crack jokes about people who are being smeared and threatened? Wow, you’re definitely a winner.
Are you kidding? That’s all I do here. Exposing your duplicitiousness and treachery is a full-time job. Just read through our posting history.
Again, point to a single lie I have told.
Given this argument, I was forced to conclude that your obtuseness was in fact deliberate….due to maliciousness.
Only because you want it to be true. I’ve already explained why I said what I said, proved that I had good reason to have said what I said, and pointed out that I corrected myself such as an honest person does.
Am I to call you a liar because you didn’t read my statement about Bush and 9/11 correctly and called me a liar even though you’re the one who failed to read what I said? No, I’m guessing you probably just read what you wanted to read instead of what I actually wrote. Which seems to happen quite often.
You know, when I have to waste a paragraph explaining how you stand condemmed by your own statements, it detracts a smidge from the victory. I’d ask you to refrain and graciously admit when you’re beaten, but of course, you’ve shown yourself to be far too petty to allow that…
Yes, especially when it is complete balogna. What did you catch me on? What did I lie about? Nothing!
July 15th, 2006 at 10:18 pmBriseadh,
Yep, I’m so lonely that I just had a friend over and watched a movie. While you guys were here. Humm… When all else fails, attack the opponent as someone who is “lonely” and is here because they are “pathetic”, all the while everyone else is here more than that person. LOL.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:24 pmWow really helped her out didnt you ren, seen smarter responses from a first grader going to public schools.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:24 pmren,
Don’t call me an asshole for pointing out the obvious to katy, who seems not to have taken the hint.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:27 pmAmerica has become the laughing stock of the world. How embarrassing.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:30 pmJust stating they are a lot smarter than you, at least they try to do the right thing.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:32 pmCalling him an asshole is trying to point out, really good logic.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:33 pmPutin: We don’t want the kind of democracy that’s in Iraq
Bush: “Just wait.”
Conclusion: Bush is going to attack Russia because it has an evil dictator AND weapons of mass destruction.
Any questions?
July 15th, 2006 at 10:40 pmQuite frankly, I would rather a leader like Putin right now. Sure, he stomps on his enemies, but he hasn’t created a global crisis…yet. The Bush mis-Administration should all be Tarred and Feathered ASAP.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:42 pmre “purging Lieberman”…
uhh… how to say this in polite company?
It is not that we “Liberals” are “Purging” Joe Lieberman… it is just that Lieberman and the AIPAC wing of the Democrat Party (that is, the entire Senate) have joined the Republican Party in IGNORING massive, systematic vote-fraud, disenfranchisement, and other techniques that clean cross the line of dirty-tricks into voting felonies – for THREE NATIONAL ELECTIONS IN A ROW now.
I won’t bore anyone here with a list of the writers and editors of the New York Times, Washington Post, Newsweek, CNN, ABC, and other “news” organizations who follow the lead of Fox ‘news’ and Joe Lieberman in PRETENDING THERE IS NO PROBLEM with America’s Diebold/ES&S proprietary black-box voting – companies that control 80% of votes counted in America – when EVERY state in America that has legalized gambling relentlessly and ruthlessly inspect EVERY LINE of computer code in casino slot machines – but the sad fact is that Joe Lieberman represents the betrayal of the RIGHT of every American to KNOW that his/her vote has been counted. Fairly. Correctly. Accurately.
With Diebold and ES&S counting 80% of the votes, and NO audit, review, or verification possible, we Americans simply have no right to claim that we are a democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:43 pmre “purging Lieberman”…
uhh… how to say this in polite company?
It is not that we “Liberals” are “Purging” Joe Lieberman… it is just that Lieberman and the AIPAC wing of the Democrat Party (that is, the entire Senate) have joined the Republican Party in IGNORING massive, systematic vote-fraud, disenfranchisement, and other techniques that clean cross the line of dirty-tricks into voting felonies – for THREE NATIONAL ELECTIONS IN A ROW now.
I won’t bore anyone here with a list of the writers and editors of the New York Times, Washington Post, Newsweek, CNN, ABC, and other “news” organizations who follow the lead of Fox ‘news’ and Joe Lieberman in PRETENDING THERE IS NO PROBLEM with America’s Diebold/ES&S proprietary black-box voting – companies that control 80% of votes counted in America – when EVERY state in America that has legalized gambling relentlessly and ruthlessly inspect EVERY LINE of computer code in casino slot machines – but the sad fact is that Joe Lieberman represents the betrayal of the RIGHT of every American to KNOW that his/her vote has been counted. Fairly. Correctly. Accurately.
With Diebold and ES&S counting 80% of the votes, and NO audit, review, or verification possible, we Americans simply have no right to claim that we are a democracy.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:43 pmActually, I find that article on the 19th page of searching Google for “seixonâ€.
Thanks for confirming my argument. I knew if I exaggerated the ease with which I found that article, you’d engage in some misguided attempt to prove me wrong on that insignificant point, inadvertently proving me correct in general. Thanks again for being so pathetically predictable.
(By the way, how possible would it be to find anything on Google in ‘ten seconds’, given the time to type in the search phrase, wait for results, scroll down, and read the resultant matches? It’s too bad you didn’t ask yourself that before you posted.)
One more thing: you claim that the referenced article was on the 19th page…so the ’savvy Google skills’ you refer to are basically knowing how to advance pages? Again, demand your box tops back.
I’m sorry to inform you that Judd deleted it, as he deleted all my posts after the last one you wrote. If you don’t believe me, ask him yourself.
Another bald-faced LIE, Seixon. I monitored that thread very closely, and saw nothing of the sort. Also, it’s not likely that Judd would have deleted your apology to me, in any case. Of course, it’s terribly convenient for you to claim that your apology was deleted, isn’t it?
And how do you compensate for yours? Crack jokes about people who are being smeared and threatened?
Seixon, your breast-beating and whining is getting very old. Obviously, you don’t feel that threatened, since you continue to post here. As long as you do, I’ll continue to attempt to hold you to some standard of honesty.
Again, point to a single lie I have told.
Scroll up.
What did you catch me on? What did I lie about? Nothing!
You’re not fooling anyone. Your lies are obvious to anyone who bothers to scroll up (a skill only mastered by ’savvy’ users, I know, but you seem to make a habit of underestimating others…otherwise, you wouldn’t try to foist such obvious lies upon them).
July 15th, 2006 at 10:45 pmSeixon: You only have to read the Russian newspapers online to see what you posit is not true. But you probably know that.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:50 pmRegards,
Comment by lj — July 15, 2006 @ 10:43 pm
EXCELLENT THOUGHTS!!!
July 15th, 2006 at 10:50 pmthank you! keep reminding us/them/all!
Which one? The english language ones I looked at really didnt say anything about it.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:51 pmJewish Supremacists who care more about Israel than America are behind the scenes controlling:
the Whitehouse, the Fed., the mass media, most of the banks, and god only knows what else.
Everyone except Americans know it and they laugh at Americans for letting greedy Jewish power brokers and their lackies (like Pres Monkey brain) do to it what their Jewish forefathers did to almost every other country in the world where they came to power.
The only difference is Americans are soooo stupid that they are brainwashed into supporting their own death.
G. W. Bush doesn’t need to be smart, because the Jews in the media will put their spin on everything he says anyway. Wait til America is completely ruined. i’d like to see the look on America’s face then! lol
It should hurt to be that stupid
July 15th, 2006 at 10:52 pmGeorge Walker Bush is guilty of High Treason and should be tried and punished accordingly.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:56 pmTripMaster,
Thanks for confirming my argument. I knew if I exaggerated the ease with which I found that article, you’d engage in some misguided attempt to prove me wrong on that insignificant point, inadvertently proving me correct in general. Thanks again for being so pathetically predictable.
Ah, so you lie on purpose to have me be honest and tell you the truth, because I’m honest. That sure is a brilliant way of making me look like a liar! You said you could do it in 10 seconds, I said bullshit. I was right. And you just showed you are willing to lie for trivial reasons. Good for you!
By the way, how possible would it be to find anything on Google in ‘ten seconds’, given the time to type in the search phrase, wait for results, scroll down, and read the resultant matches? It’s too bad you didn’t ask yourself that before you posted.
If the first result had showed my name right in the excerpt, for instance. It takes you ten seconds to type in the search phrase, wait for results, and look at the page? Geez man, take a typing class.
One more thing: you claim that the referenced article was on the 19th page…so the ’savvy Google skills’ you refer to are basically knowing how to advance pages? Again, demand your box tops back.
You’re right, because I’m sure most people would read through all the pages all the way to the 19th page. Right? As I said, if you have savvy Google skills, you can find it much quicker.
Another bald-faced LIE, Seixon. I monitored that thread very closely, and saw nothing of the sort. Also, it’s not likely that Judd would have deleted your apology to me, in any case. Of course, it’s terribly convenient for you to claim that your apology was deleted, isn’t it?
Judd deleted every single post I wrote after your last one, which is why your post is last. Ask Judd if you want, I’m not lying about a damn thing. In fact, check the thread yourself. The last comment for me is at 9:09PM. Your joke is at 9:27PM. Every single response I wrote after that is gone. Hmm, wonder why.
Scroll up.
Just because you say something is a lie doesn’t make it one. I didn’t lie, and you can go tell it on the mountain. And by that I mean Judd. Who deleted every single comment I made after your wisecrack.
You’re not fooling anyone. Your lies are obvious to anyone who bothers to scroll up
Ah yes, you screaming “LIE” when you have no proof or evidence. That’s pretty convincing.
You can go into your think-box and ponder why every single response of mine from 9:09PM on is magically gone. Then you can apologize for calling me a liar.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:58 pmGeorge Walker Bush is guilty of High Treason and should be tried and punished accordingly.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
When it comes to the major news networks in the U.S., unless you have a billion dollars to buy a network news station, there is no free press. We are told what the owners of the media want us to hear. If you don’t beleivew that, google “Who Rules America”
July 16th, 2006 at 12:14 am[...] This is a lovely indicator of Dubya’s genius in maintaining our status as the world’s moral and intellectual beacon of hope. [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 12:15 amTim “Who Rules Americaâ€
thanks!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:24 amBush is a jewish marionette!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:26 amIsrael it is new fascist nation!!!
The economy is strong!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:35 amWe’re making progress!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:35 amFool me once… shame on…
July 16th, 2006 at 12:35 amNor would Putin want the ‘democracy’ of America.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:49 amWould he want a gov’t that cages peaceful protestors, pressures book outlets like Amazon to drop the book “America Deceived” by E.A. Blayre III, taps all phones illegally and starts aggresive wars?
Actually, maybe Putin would, but Americans shouldn’t.
Final link (before Google Books caves and drops the book):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
[...] Putin rejects Bush’s Iraq democracy model- via CNN.com It looks like Bush isn’t the only person capable of making smart-ass comments at press conferences. Here’s a video of the event. [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 1:01 amComment by Seixon — July 15, 2006 @ 10:24 pm
That posting would be 4:24 a.m. Norway time. Must have been a long movie. You must not see much daylight.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:07 amif having ‘free press’ and ‘freedom of religion’ means getting bush with the package, then on behalf of my fellow russians i say, thanx, but no thanx. we’d be better off with putin at the helm.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:30 amHAHAHAAH
what a moron, i swear anyone can do better than him. a hobo should be the president instead of him. i wonder why you americans chose this guy
“What an asshole! Everyone in the world laughs at him. Except the 30% of Americans who think the Earth is flat and Bush is God”
this comment made my night hahahah…
July 16th, 2006 at 2:01 amThis is bushes key problem. He’s willing to wait for YEARS in Iraq until there’s a positive outcome.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:04 amI just sped read all the posts, and Seixon was on here all night in Norway, but he claims that he does not get paid to post on here? He basically does the graveyard shift, out of Norway, so how can he have a day job, since he must sleep during the daylight hours?!
Faire > do you think Seixon comes on here because he is simply bored, and likes to stay up all night posting on here, or do you think the GOP or some other group pays him to post on here?
July 16th, 2006 at 2:17 ami find it amazing that a president of a country that has NO functioning democracy finds it possible to comment on another country’s democracy. the gall is nauseating
July 16th, 2006 at 2:39 amNoam Chomsky, who is a very bright man, suggested, like a few others, that this is all game, that Bush is really very very smart and shrewd. I have heard this from just a handful of others over the years. I usually agree with Chomsky, but hell no, not this time.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:57 amBush is clueless, and one of the dumbest assholes ever, ever to inhabit that office. He’s an embarassment and the only time he is agile is when off-the-cuff humor is involved. Otherwise, he a dim lite.
Jim
Maybe you yourself do not want to control the world. But you have to agree the old American belief of “Manifest Destiny” is based on the desire of empire and power. This Empire has existed since at least 1900. Your economic model is based on conquest, your Major Corporations are always looking for a “new market” to conquer and provide a never ending source of income for their (supposedly infinite) expansion. “Imperialism” is part of the system, and it began with the British Empire. The system also makes conflict un-avoidable as 2 “competitors” seek to conquer the same shrinking “market” on the globe.
The Topic of Democracy, Putin, and Russian Point of View:
Democracy – The Russian Federation right now is a Democracy, whether some posters like it or not. Presidents are elected by a majority of votes, none of that “Electoral College” stuff. Ballots include all major candidates, and in Russia political parties are like apples in an Apple tree, more keep appearing every year. There were 6 major parties who received a minimum percent of votes in the last election in 2004. 64% went to Putin’s United Russia party, he was re-elected as President. His re-election is due to Russia’s current Growing economy, which has been growing for the last 6 years, it was the genuine voice of the people.
If you want to attack someone here it is that drunk Yeltsin, he ruined the economy so badly he had cheat to win the elections, he only had the support of 3% of the population.
The Russian Parliament is split up along the same lines. Majority rules, the Speaker is a representative of the Majority. There are at least 6 parties that I know of in the Russian Parliament right now(there are 2 houses, the Duma and the Federation Council). Parties frequently lose and win seats and lose their posts in the Parliament in each election. These are not “permanent” like the Republican and Democratic parties in the US.
The Self-Governing regions also have their own smaller regional councils. In some cases the region also has its own President, elected by majority vote. Governors of regions can be removed by the Federal Government or by a referendum of the population.
Putin – Vladimir Putin is the current 2nd term President of Russia, he came to power on January 1st 2000 after Yeltsin resigned, he was elected by a majority of votes in March of 2000. There is a 2 term limit, and he is to leave office in 2008(sorry no “dictators” here) according to the Russian Constitution. The only way he can legally stay in officer is if there is an amendment to the constitution which changes the number of terms of presidency. He can’t introduce this amendment. There is talk of him going into business after he leaves office in 2008. His successor will be chosen by the people. Right now Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov and Deputy Prime Minister Dimitry Medvedev are the favorites for the United Russia ballot position. Others will bring forth their own candidate.
US/UK support former Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov to be President, he is called a “liberal” in the Western Media, I don’t know why, he is the candidate of the Oligarchs. The Oligarchs are a Super-Rich Minority who became powerful because of their Corrupt Business practices. Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the “poor” victim of Putin used to walk into the Kremlin in the 1990’s with 100,000 “bucks” in a suitcase, and walk out with the deeds of several major Russian Companies which were recently “privatized”.
The Western Media has skewed and distorted each act in Russia since the year 2000. Everything Russia does is bad, that has been the constant message, I am sick of it. They blame Putin for taking the Media from the Oligarchs, when it was a crackdown on corruption. They blame Putin when terrorists kill Russians. They call terrorists who kill Russian citizens “rebels” and “guerillas”. I am not surprised many Americans don’t like Putin, if all you have is a negative image being thrown at you for 6 years then you only have a negative image of a person.
Russian Point of View – The Point of View of Russians in the West is mostly ignored. They think we are all a bunch of idiots, and treat us like dirt. We are called “paranoid” when NATO builds an Airbase 5 minutes from Russia’s 2nd largest city, St. Petersburg. Why is NATO still in existence if the Cold War is “over”? Why does it continue to expand to Russia’s borders? Of course we are “paranoid”, if the US was in our position, it would be too. If somebody is “pro-Russian” in a country near Russia he/she is quickly demonized, like being “pro-Russian” is something to be avoided like the Black Plague, like that description means something bad. Russians don’t like it when we are demonized, when whole countries seem stuck in a Russophobic Cold War stereotype.
Look at things from other people’s point of view before you attack them.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:26 amPutin, obviously has a pair and gave it to Bush like no one has before… straight up! Funny thing… the truth.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:30 amSIEXON PLEASE GO DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST BEFORE ANYTHING COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!!!!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 4:13 amBush is a jewish marionette!
Israel it is new fascist nation!!!
They will choke in blood!
July 16th, 2006 at 4:29 am#336- MA- Regarding the body of your post, that discusses what actions lead to someone being considered a ‘traitor’, it made me think of the whole Iran/Contra episode, which as you may recall, spanned 2 Republican administrations, Reagan and Bush 41, who was also Reagan’s V.P. for 8 years. According to the descriptions cited in your post, the Reagan/Bush 41 administrations were CRAWLING with ‘traitors’, wouldn’t you agree? Selling weapons to Iran, in secret, while publicly providing weapons, and other assistance, and support to Saddam Hussein, and Iraq, appear to meet the qualifications of traitorus behavior, and actions. And I agree, it would be good to know who sold nuclear technology, and equipment to Iran. Too bad BushCo blew our chance to find out by mentioning Valerie Plame, and exposing the name of the ‘front company’ that the CIA created to monitor the nuclear capabilities of countries like Iran, flushing 20 years of carefully constructed ‘human intelligence networks’, the most vital component of our ‘counter-terrorism’ defense, and the most difficult to obtain. And BushCo, in a fit of ‘pique’, at being called on their bullshit, chose to just piss it all away, because they were embarassed by the truth. But they are not the ‘traitors’ here, right? Whatever you say, doll. Fer sure, like TOTALLY!!
July 16th, 2006 at 5:47 amOh, Today I was at the Sequim Lavender Festival, and I found a pin that says: “The Bush Doctrine: Speak incoherently, and hit someone with a stick.” I LAUGHED, then bought the pin.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:54 amOkay, first the genocides: Yep, we can agree on that. What we disagree on is how best to manage it, and whether Iraq has hurt America’s ability to manage it.
Islamic Fascism: Why not non-Islamic fascism too? Is it okay if the fascist happens to be a Christian? What about Atheist fascism? Is Hindu Fascism okay? Or Shinto fascism? Note that while Saddam was a Fascist who happened to be a muslim, his government was the only one in the region that was secular rather then religious. This of course has changed now that Sharia law is the basis of all law for Iraq (go read their draft constitution, it still needs to be ratified but I wouldn’t call it a good sign for female rights.)
Stopping nuclear proliferation: This site most certainly supports the NPT, which is why America’s sale of nuclear technology to India, breaking the NPT, is one of the issues we oppose.
Wanting an effective UN: Well gee, when you have one country preaching that it wants everyone to obey the rules, and then breaking the rules itself, it doesn’t exactly make the rules easier to enforce. America’s invasion of Iraq was unsanctioned by the UN. This undermined the UN to the point where it has become completely worthless, rather then just relatively worthless.
Opposing Dictators creating a threat to the world: I will assume you mean opposing dictators who create a threat to the world, rather then by opposing dictators creating a threat to the world. I can go with that, but here is the thing I have to ask you, what comes first in a sane government, attempting to resolve the situation peacefully, or invading other countries? What is plan A and what is plan B? To Bush, the plan A was invading other countries, not diplomacy.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:59 am#448-Ren- Whoa, scared of you, buddy! I must have caught your ‘train of thought’, because the EXACT thought came to my mind, as well. As Spock would say, “Live long, and prosper.” ;) (Spock reference regards ‘Vulcan Mind Meld’.) Beat THAT, Miss Cleo!
July 16th, 2006 at 6:01 amDr. Bush must be the brightest Prez of all times. I just love him. If there only were other people in the background steering him in another direction, then we probably would already have peace in the Middle East.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:22 amThe neocon strategy in political discourse is to first try to change the subject. Just ignore what has just been said or what the given facts are. Just change the subject. Bring up some completely unrelated event, person, nation and by implication conflate the two unrelated elements to try to make the debate about something else. Second, don’t ask questions about the sources. Make accussations about the sources. Insist, without any basis whatsoever that the sources are unreliable. Finally, if the first two tactics fail, then go for the ad hominen attacks. Go for the personal smear. Calling someone a philanderer, or a philandering homosexual usually works. Dope addict, alcoholic, “womanizer”, anything to “discredit” the messenger. That’s the Rove model.
There are some neocons, like Sexion, who haven’t quite gotten the model down in their heads, so they start out with the smear campaign.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:45 amBush only looks worse by those who support him…. As they prove that the only people who have faith in this imbecile are even bigger imbeciles.
The GOP should start paying their shills to STFU. Seriously.
Well, I’m off to a conference for a few days without internet access. Ya’ll have a nice week…
July 16th, 2006 at 8:49 amThank you Andrei Komarov for your post. Your point of view is very informative and useful. It is also true.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:54 am#453, I take it you mean you’re nauseated that Bush, a person who obtained the Presidency by judicial appointment and not by popular vote, is the one from a country with NO functioning democracy and therefore has not right to make comments about another country’s democracy. Of that I would agree.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:02 amThis president is a disgrace, and an embarrassment to this country. He has destroyed everything that had been accompolised with other countries in the past. The worst is yet to come, with national bankruptcy looming around the corder.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:03 amSeixon get real. get a life and stop lying or yo momma gonna get that stick rumbling down your cute behind! Putin has done more for the russian people and the russian economy then this Chimp in mans clothings has for the entire Dallas. You want to know about democracy? well dude, in a Democratic Nation it’s leaders do NOT ease drop on its citizens? and your respons is now WHAT?????…maaan, so many dumb asses and still some time to go. There won’t be much left of the former so likeble Super power enough to go around I guess..LMAO!
July 16th, 2006 at 9:03 amThat was fun to see how Putin used puns and Bush did not get it.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:04 am
July 16th, 2006 at 9:33 amBush closed with, “Just Wait”.
That is no joke. Oh he is a clown but he speake for the Corporate interests that rule the world.
Putin and the Russians will soon see well financed, “Resistance”.
Bush is telling him so. There are enough Billionaire wannabes and gangsters in Russia to take power. These people will allow the oil and mineral resources to be exploited by the multi-nationals and the average Russian will become corporate slaves after being dazzeled into submission with empty promises of wealth.
Seixon wrote:
Think Progress, taking the side of the anti-democratic Putin. What next? All in the name of anti-Bush. Disgusting.
No, Seixon. Disgusting is the fact that the anti-Democratic Putin is undeniably right, as everyone in the room clearly recognized. What leader in his right mind would nod and say “Yes, we would aspire to become a country like Iraq.”
Also disgusting is your willingness to defend Dear Leader’s unquestionably idiotic remark.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:08 am464 “The neocon strategy in political discourse is to first try to change the subject”
just what I was thinking CB. the point here is that Iraq has become a joke (if you watch the video of the press conference, people in the audience laughed at Putin’s comment). Yes, Putin is reprehensible. (By the way, Bush had very positive things to say about Putin for several years. When he first met him, Bush claimed he had looked into Putin’s eyes, gotten a sense of his soul, and decided he was trustworthy.) but he happens to be right–it’s a joke that Russia would want what is going on in Iraq. and that was the point of his comment–Iraq is a nightmare where no one is safe.
this is not about what a nightmare Putin is for Russia. That is indeed a problem (and by the way, I think we did nothing to address the problem when maybe something could have been done about it–like N Korea, Iran, Somalia, the Sudan, Israel/Palestine/Lebanon–another example of a place where the Bush admin has no foreign policy and has simply watched as bad things happened). This is about what a joke it is for our president to say Iraq in 2006, 3 years after our invasion, has something others might want
July 16th, 2006 at 10:31 amhow can i follow any of these wonderful comments. the man , and i use that term loosely, is an absolute IDIOT.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:35 amSorry but one more comment on Bush’s remark being, “No joke”.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:36 amHe has demonstrated arrogance before as when he spoke of, “Political capital” and an intention to spend it, when he took the Presidency. He simply went tit for tat with Putin and felt no need to hide his threat.
One may not agree with him but he has his,”Patroit act”, has laid a blueprint to destroy Social Seccurity, begun to privitize the military, Homeland security, border patrol, gone unopposed as these contracts are awarded to his cronies as the occupation of Iraq become a cash cow for his corporate friends, increased spending for nuclear weapons, gotten away with the creation of torture chambers and concentration camps, and caused the majority of the Democratic party to cower in fear while the millionaires become billionaires as the middle class slips slowly into poverty.
He may be seen as a source of ridicule for his demeanor but his accomplishments for his definition of the,”American People” are awesome. He is not a dictator but as close as one could hope to become in 6 years!
The power of Republican party supporters is such that most people who oppose them are afraid to admit it for fear of an argument, being labled unpatriotic or losing their job.
The Russians seem to have no sense of nationalism. The CIA will make good use of this.
Putin is simply saying he wouldn’t want a Democracy like Iraq as Bush lectures him on a future for politial change in Russia. How arrogant is that?
Putin got slapped down with,”Just wait” and he better watch his butt or he will end up like JFK et all. Just wait.
[...] Bush encourages Putin to pursue a democracy similar to that of Iraq and Putin retorts “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.“ Which is met with guffaws and giggles from the press covering the event (it’s funny because it’s true, shh). To which Bush pipes up, “Just wait!“. So basically our nation has been demoted to the status of the geeky kid in the back of the classroom that everyone has absolutely no problem laughing at right to his face. [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 10:38 amUnlike Sexy, I sleep at night, while he rants on and on in long, meaningless posts that say nothing. He does this folks to shift away from what is actually happening in this world, and by responding to his idiotic posts, you keep egging him on. IGNORE HIM.
Now I see where Bush has looked into Putins eyes and seen deep into his soul and has decided that he is not worthy of being in the World Trade Organization.
This is a man who took over a country with a huge balance, and in just a few months, with tax cuts and all, turned it into a world record deficit. He crows about his economy while the Dow slides 400 points. The man is an idiot, is clueless, and is always doing the wrong thing.
This is a PROGRESSIVE BLOG. Ignore the other side and you will see how much better it works. Thats right, be close minded, ignore assholes. You cant even post on their sites, can you?
July 16th, 2006 at 10:43 amhttp://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=509
Iraq remains the world’s most dangerous place for the media, with 19 journalists killed there in 2004 and more than a dozen kidnapped.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:49 amUpthread someone mentioned “Manifest Destiny”. Methinks Bushco treats it more like Manifest Density! Ha, I see all the paid hacks still at ir, earning a few $ from the safety of Norway??? Please!!! What a joke.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:18 am[...] I’m not sure what George W. Bush’s problem is, but he sure seems to love “the stupid comment,” as he showed this weekend at the G8 when he told Vladimir Putin that his country needed to imitate Iraq’s free press and religion, to be countered by Putin saying, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.” First of all, I think it’s poor diplomacy to try and embarrass Russia in their own country by shining the light on their mistakes; Russia is imperfect, but it isn’t a slave state like it used to be, and so the time was not at the G8 to knead them. But, at least, Bush gave Putin a large target to club. [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 11:24 amYou do realise that people in Russia have no other way than to perceive you Americans as embarrassment of mother nature every time you come up with silly comments about how “the press in Iraq is more free than in Russia”? Do you realise at all that most of what they feed to you in media about Russia is total crap, lies and propaganda?
July 16th, 2006 at 12:16 pmIt is time to you people to start check the reality.
Bush was ordered to confine most of the dialog with Putin to private conversations in the palace backrooms. Obviously he knows his limitations and (as in this case) shoots himself in the foot nearly every time he makes a public statement.
His “Just wait” retort was simply meant to change the subject from “…the kind of democracy Iraq has” where he was zinged by Putins response, to some safer issue, eg,. boar roast.
The real irony here is that in our so called “Democracy”, even the President is ordered to keep policy discussions secret.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:31 pmYou are saying 30% support Bush. In 2004 more than 50% supported him, so I think we have much worth situation that we think.
Every nation deserves its leader. We got what we deserved. When we had our chance we didn’t take it.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:47 pmBush is a total disgrace and a war-mongering, dynastic, anti-democratic, totalitarian who has done his best to destroy the US through hidden and open border erasing polices as well as destabilizing the rest of the world. I cannot fathom why anyone would still support him.
Signed,
A conservative
P.S. This is not an endorsement for the liberal side of the aisle for they are just as corrupt as the Neo-cons. The US is totally screwed and they are taking the rest of the world with them.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:48 pm#
George Walker Bush is guilty of High Treason and should be tried and punished accordingly.
Comment by Ace — July 15, 2006 @ 11:01 pm
#
When it comes to the major news networks in the U.S., unless you have a billion dollars to buy a network news station, there is no free press. We are told what the owners of the media want us to hear. If you don’t beleivew that, google “Who Rules Americaâ€
Comment by Tim — July 16, 2006 @ 12:14 am
I fully agree with the above two comments as well.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:58 pmWhen wee George told Putin to wait and see at the end of this exchange one can only assume he meant that in the future Iraq will be some sort of democratic model of perfection. I think Putin is a much smarter man then to believe that, he has been dealing with that particular area of the world a lot longer than little punk george has even know of that regions existence. Americans wake up and take back your country because your lives do depend on getting this jack booted little turd and his bunch behind bars where they belong. I repeat your lives and those of your children depend on it.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:09 pm[...] It wasn’t a jab, it was an uppercup – Vladimir Putin puts the kibosh on George W. Bush: BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy. [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 2:43 pmCan Putin run in 2008 for U.S. President? We need that guy! Putin for President!
July 16th, 2006 at 4:39 pmDubya had an unfurled roll of toilet tissue hanging out his behind like that sheriff in Smokey and the Bandit.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:21 pmWhen Bush said “Just wait” to Putin’s “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq”, was he threatening Putin and Russia? Did GWB mean that Putin just needed to wait a little to see an Iraqi style democracy in his country? How is he going to make it happen? Does he have plans to invade Russia already?
July 16th, 2006 at 7:24 pmBravo Putin!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 10:55 pmBush is a little masonic puppet, destroy him! The whole world is with Putin. Bush and his satanic Skull&Bones friends and his masters – Rothschild family should be destroyed!
That teaches one thing: Dont mess with the russians. They have won, by themselves, the Second great war.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:09 amI didnt see Bush telling him: Bring them on.
eblair
“this is not about what a nightmare Putin is for Russia.”
Putin is a nightmare for Russia? Since when? Yeltsin, that was a nightmare, maybe you are thinking of him.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:56 amI am not a major supporter of Putin like some people, but a “nightmare”? Yeltsin ordered tanks to fire on the Parliament in 1993 when those inside refused to follow his orders, there is nothing worse than that!
Russia is a better place to live in with Putin as President, even if some of us think more can be done. Putin also divides power around different Ministeries, he does not order things to be done he endorses plans and projects or rejects them.
Also the Kremlin is very open, major decision making meetings are televised. I don’t think Bush holds live conferences with people where he answers questions sent to him in letters or asked live on TV from around the country from concerned citizens. Just a week ago he did one, and it was hosted by British BBC! And unlike what I have heard about Bush Rallies being limited to select supporters, complaints are the majority of the questions.
I feel bad for the majority of the American public.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:17 amTo have to say, “yeah, he was elected” must be terribly difficult.
He has made an entire nation look bad.
I’m glad Shrub is pushing Iraqi-style democracy. After the vote counting scandal in Florida and other states in the last election, he certainly does not have a democracy in the USA anymore.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:38 pm[...] Look at the following dialogue between Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin at yesterday’s G8 summit in Russia: BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him (Putin) that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy. [...]
July 17th, 2006 at 1:30 pm[...] Look at the following dialogue between Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin at yesterday’s G8 summit in Russia: [...]
July 17th, 2006 at 2:04 pmFree press in Iraq — Yeah, just tell that to Al Jazeera, who was conveniently blown up in the shock and awe program.
And the point of what Putin pointed out is, We aren’t winning the hearts and minds of anyone else in the world when in extolling the virtues of democracy and freedom, Bush uses an obvious example which shows the hypocrisy of his own version of freedom.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmWhat a f**king idiot (which is a phrase I’m sure most, if not all, world leaders use themselves to described King George VII). Can we PLEASE get this dingle berry’s right-wing GOP freaks out of the House so we can FINALLY IMPEACH this asshole??!! Jesus H. Christ he’s an embarrassment.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:58 pmWhat I don’t get is why Bush says we are bringing democracy to Iraq. Democracy is a form of government where the people make the choices. If Iraq were a true democracy, the US would be out of Iraq because over three quarters of all Iraqis would choose to have us out of their country. Or maybe all the polls are wrong, just like all the exit polls in the 2004 election.
Comment by annodomini — July 15, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
I agree. And what I don’t get is how Americans can’t see how insulting it is to Iraqis for us to assume that we are “giving” them democracy. What Bush has done is to create a vacum for democracy to possibly exist. We have “liberated” them (mission over) in order for them to fight for their own democracy themselves. Like we had to do for many many years. Even the Iraqi politicians are telling us to leave, so they might have a chance to fight it out (and perhaps achieve it) themselves. Oh yes, and how many PMs has Iraq had since they “elected” and freely chose their first one? Hint: They are on their 3rd PM, because Bush didn’t like the first two, who were telling him the same thing #3 is — We want the Americans out, now!
Wow, sorry I didn’t paraphrase Putin exactly, it doesn’t change anything. What I wrote him having said has the exact same meaning as what you wrote. Talk about nitpicking. -Seixon
Afraid it doesn’t. Putin’s comment is about what democracy is in Iraq (now). While yours imparts a kind of ownership of that democracy by the Iraqi’s. Big difference in my book! If we Americans gave them democracy than it was not theirs to begin with. Subtleties are very important indeed!!
July 17th, 2006 at 5:33 pmFree press no such thing unless it is owned and run by patriots for patriots working for a common cause. The American public has been so dumbed downed and misled by the press, who has adendas other than watching out for America,that we end up having a preidential election stolen by hubristic moron who things he is a statesman. We the American public wind up embaressed everytime he opens his mouth, and yet do not have the balls to do anything about beacause it might be illegal. Maybe we need to suffer some more
July 17th, 2006 at 5:34 pmone of seixon’s goals is to get people off the subject of the blog and into a tit for tat about his incorrect and lacking of, facts…this guy ruins every blog.
Comment by ren — July 15, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
yea… i can excuse the new guy, kitchensinkwmds, but the regulars here should know better… i had hoped it could be ignored and allowed to wither…
alas…
Comment by katy — July 15, 2006 @ 3:39 pm
Katy, perhaps it’s a good lesson for some, but I find his comments to be annoying and a waste of time. I mean over half of the nearly 500 I’ve read are focused on him. I wish we could have him banned from discussion unless he agrees to stick to the point and stop with the persecution complex (other web sites would). The fact that he doesn’t see the difference in what Putin actually said and what he paraphrased is frightening!!
Giacomo is right on with how to post effectively and Seixon should take note.
July 17th, 2006 at 7:30 pmJust wait! Just wait? Tell me George – how much longer need we wait?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 amThat darned Bush…
I’m sorry, but George W. Bush’s “unplugged” moment at the G8 dinner deserves a second post….
July 18th, 2006 at 9:49 amI wish Putin would have said, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, or America, quite honestly.â€
Because America is now a failed democracy.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:48 pmHope you don’t mind if I jump into the conversation, very interesting comments and topic. From most of the replies we have alot in common, our country and the boob that is now running it. I’m siding with Europeans, how can so-o-o-o many in this country be ignorant enough to vote for this man. I guess the religious right has more pull than thought.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:19 pmheh, it seems that here the Bush is tortured to be a scapegoat. In fact his given the best reply. “Just wait”. Ask yourself: What did he mean by that? Is he going to improve the Iraq situation or visit Russia in the same manner?
Do you think that world leaders are resting on their laurels and accepting the fact that Russia is so abundant in land and what lies beneath and so underutilised? Or do you think that the slaps Russia gives is just gulped?
“Sigh”, Russian leaders always “slapped” the foreign leaders or gave them the wicked snogs. Just reminisce the Stalin, Hrushhev, Brezhnev.
Russia is showing the middle finger to the world, but in fact its only riding the high waves of commodity prices that constitute 78% of national exports.
July 21st, 2006 at 12:16 pmBush made two really bad mistakes. First, he tried to publicly lecture the leader of a large and proud country about how they “should be” according to GWB’s and the USA’s standard of what a country should be. GWB and his “handlers” should have known this was going to immediately cause Vladimir Putin to recoil in defense. Second, GWB used a horrible and ludicrous example — Iraq today — as his model of what Russia “should be.” The combination created a Perfect Storm which allowed Putin to nail GWB squarely in the jaw. Russia under Putin is no model for a pluralistic and free society. Putin knows that full well. Putin’s statement (at another moment) is true — Russia has never had a free press, free expression and religious freedom. Russia went from feudal monarchy to statist fascism to anarchy to whatever it is now. Even Putin doesn’t know what the hell Russia is now, or what it will become. GWB doesn’t seem greatly enamored with all the freedoms he recommends Putin adopt, based on his recent actions. In fact, GWB’s actions indicate he desires a society more like Russia than the USA in terms of highly centralized power and tightly restricted “freedoms.” GWB walked into this body blow because he attempted to preach to Putin from a moral high ground and GWB has spent the last four years diligently tearing down that high ground — and Putin knows it. Vladimir Putin is all other things aside a very intelligent man and GWB is kind of a dunce who actually thinks that being dumb is a good, wholesome all-American thing. So Putin socked him in the jaw.
July 22nd, 2006 at 2:25 amI think what really pissed off Putin is that GWB had the nerve to compare Russia to Iraq in any context, let alone that Russia should be “more like” Iraq. Russia sees itself as one of three pre-eminent world powers and second to none in many facets. For GWB to place Russia alongside Iraq in any context in a public speech is very insulting to Putin. Russia is Russia. Putin is Russian. He will stand up for his country if he thinks it is being publicly besmirched. If Putin did the same thing in a speech to the U.S. Congress, you can imagine the howling and caterwauling This was just a very basic, obvious mistake of Diplomacy 101. Doesn’t anyone prep GWB or is he so dumb that he cannot even be prepped?
July 22nd, 2006 at 2:52 amGiacomo, 12 -24 years for U.S. democracy to cement? Apparently you’re short term memory needs refreshing. 50% of America would say it hasn’t cemented YET….or did they count YOUR votes in the last 2 elections. They wouldn’t count mine even though I’m 51 and have voted in the same polling site the last 33 years. Don’t tell me this is a democracy. Come on November! Let’s prove Seixon right and demonstrate America’s democracy by voting elephant icon incumbents OUT. Maybe then the elephant will never forget!
July 26th, 2006 at 8:25 amWow, that was amazing that it was televised. I guess the spin-zones were not able to censor or spin any of that, huh?
July 26th, 2006 at 9:13 pm[...] I’d like to see ABC try a spin-off of the show with heads of state. Let’s really throw down! We could do an initial show with President Bush and President Putin swapping jobs and families. They’d each get to test run and then reform the democracies of each state. There’s a lot of potential here… [...]
September 4th, 2006 at 11:20 pmIraqi press is more free than Russia’s? Really? In Russia, we have state-controlled press (less than 10%) and privately controlled press and everybody knows that. Americans would never know what the reason for this would be because you never lived in Russia. State controlled press gives the view of the government, while the “free” press (influenced by oligarchs) gives their own opinion. There needs to be a balance in the media, which clearly does not exist in the United States (I live in Boston), where you have people like O’reilly and channels like FOX news feed you degenerate BS every day. But maybe I am wrong. In Europe we are now accustomed to believe that pro-US press is the freest of all.
September 9th, 2006 at 1:52 pmThe US Goverment and some of the Americans support a natural imbecile!
No hard feelings, guys, but you have gotten what you deserved.
Perhaps the OVER-DEMOCRATIC American inner politics will further cause, that more of such stupid brats will obtain political power. Take a moron and let him sit in a President’s chair. That’s a great plan, sure thing!
As for the press in Russia, I seriously doubt that it is less free than in Iraq. I myself live in Russia and do know, how the things are. Believe me, we have press, which coverings are quite bold and criticize the present regime. We have journalists, disclosing many dirty political affairs and so on.
Iraqi press is a post-war press. I doubt it can be free, cause the side which prevails needs more support there. (like “propaganda”)
October 20th, 2006 at 10:15 am[...] Playful jabs colored their joint press conference. Bush expressed his hope that Russia would promote free press and free speech- like Iraq is now. Putin playfully shot back, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.” Oh those crazy kids…. [...]
April 6th, 2008 at 11:45 am