Comments on: Putin Jabs Bush: ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’ http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/ Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:16:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: papyr.us.com » Blog Archive » Birds singing in the trees http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-4771366 papyr.us.com » Blog Archive » Birds singing in the trees Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:45:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-4771366 [...] Playful jabs colored their joint press conference. Bush expressed his hope that Russia would promote free press and free speech- like Iraq is now. Putin playfully shot back, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.” Oh those crazy kids…. [...] [...] Playful jabs colored their joint press conference. Bush expressed his hope that Russia would promote free press and free speech- like Iraq is now. Putin playfully shot back, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.” Oh those crazy kids…. [...]

]]> By: Artemicion http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-1010290 Artemicion Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:15:01 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-1010290 The US Goverment and some of the Americans support a natural imbecile! No hard feelings, guys, but you have gotten what you deserved. Perhaps the OVER-DEMOCRATIC American inner politics will further cause, that more of such stupid brats will obtain political power. Take a moron and let him sit in a President's chair. That's a great plan, sure thing! As for the press in Russia, I seriously doubt that it is less free than in Iraq. I myself live in Russia and do know, how the things are. Believe me, we have press, which coverings are quite bold and criticize the present regime. We have journalists, disclosing many dirty political affairs and so on. Iraqi press is a post-war press. I doubt it can be free, cause the side which prevails needs more support there. (like "propaganda") The US Goverment and some of the Americans support a natural imbecile!
No hard feelings, guys, but you have gotten what you deserved.
Perhaps the OVER-DEMOCRATIC American inner politics will further cause, that more of such stupid brats will obtain political power. Take a moron and let him sit in a President’s chair. That’s a great plan, sure thing!

As for the press in Russia, I seriously doubt that it is less free than in Iraq. I myself live in Russia and do know, how the things are. Believe me, we have press, which coverings are quite bold and criticize the present regime. We have journalists, disclosing many dirty political affairs and so on.

Iraqi press is a post-war press. I doubt it can be free, cause the side which prevails needs more support there. (like “propaganda”)

]]> By: V http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-795096 V Sat, 09 Sep 2006 17:52:59 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-795096 Iraqi press is more free than Russia's? Really? In Russia, we have state-controlled press (less than 10%) and privately controlled press and everybody knows that. Americans would never know what the reason for this would be because you never lived in Russia. State controlled press gives the view of the government, while the "free" press (influenced by oligarchs) gives their own opinion. There needs to be a balance in the media, which clearly does not exist in the United States (I live in Boston), where you have people like O'reilly and channels like FOX news feed you degenerate BS every day. But maybe I am wrong. In Europe we are now accustomed to believe that pro-US press is the freest of all. Iraqi press is more free than Russia’s? Really? In Russia, we have state-controlled press (less than 10%) and privately controlled press and everybody knows that. Americans would never know what the reason for this would be because you never lived in Russia. State controlled press gives the view of the government, while the “free” press (influenced by oligarchs) gives their own opinion. There needs to be a balance in the media, which clearly does not exist in the United States (I live in Boston), where you have people like O’reilly and channels like FOX news feed you degenerate BS every day. But maybe I am wrong. In Europe we are now accustomed to believe that pro-US press is the freest of all.

]]> By: WATCHHOUSE» Blog Archive » Head of state wife swap http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-776298 WATCHHOUSE» Blog Archive » Head of state wife swap Tue, 05 Sep 2006 03:20:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-776298 [...] I’d like to see ABC try a spin-off of the show with heads of state.  Let’s really throw down!  We could do an initial show with President Bush and President Putin swapping jobs and families.  They’d each get to test run and then reform the democracies of each state.  There’s a lot of potential here… [...] [...] I’d like to see ABC try a spin-off of the show with heads of state.  Let’s really throw down!  We could do an initial show with President Bush and President Putin swapping jobs and families.  They’d each get to test run and then reform the democracies of each state.  There’s a lot of potential here… [...]

]]> By: Patsy Robles http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-691053 Patsy Robles Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:13:48 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-691053 Wow, that was amazing that it was televised. I guess the spin-zones were not able to censor or spin any of that, huh? Wow, that was amazing that it was televised. I guess the spin-zones were not able to censor or spin any of that, huh?

]]> By: jm http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-689404 jm Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:25:15 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-689404 Giacomo, <em>12 -24 years for U.S. democracy to cement</em>? Apparently you're short term memory needs refreshing. 50% of America would say it hasn't cemented <strong>YET</strong>....or did they count YOUR votes in the last 2 elections. They wouldn't count mine even though I'm 51 and have voted in the same polling site the last 33 years. Don't tell me this is a democracy. Come on November! Let's prove Seixon right and demonstrate America's democracy by voting elephant icon incumbents OUT. Maybe then the elephant will never forget! Giacomo, 12 -24 years for U.S. democracy to cement? Apparently you’re short term memory needs refreshing. 50% of America would say it hasn’t cemented YET….or did they count YOUR votes in the last 2 elections. They wouldn’t count mine even though I’m 51 and have voted in the same polling site the last 33 years. Don’t tell me this is a democracy. Come on November! Let’s prove Seixon right and demonstrate America’s democracy by voting elephant icon incumbents OUT. Maybe then the elephant will never forget!

]]> By: Doug Watts http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-684510 Doug Watts Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:52:35 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-684510 I think what really pissed off Putin is that GWB had the nerve to compare Russia to Iraq in any context, let alone that Russia should be "more like" Iraq. Russia sees itself as one of three pre-eminent world powers and second to none in many facets. For GWB to place Russia alongside Iraq in any context in a public speech is very insulting to Putin. Russia is Russia. Putin is Russian. He will stand up for his country if he thinks it is being publicly besmirched. If Putin did the same thing in a speech to the U.S. Congress, you can imagine the howling and caterwauling This was just a very basic, obvious mistake of Diplomacy 101. Doesn't anyone prep GWB or is he so dumb that he cannot even be prepped? I think what really pissed off Putin is that GWB had the nerve to compare Russia to Iraq in any context, let alone that Russia should be “more like” Iraq. Russia sees itself as one of three pre-eminent world powers and second to none in many facets. For GWB to place Russia alongside Iraq in any context in a public speech is very insulting to Putin. Russia is Russia. Putin is Russian. He will stand up for his country if he thinks it is being publicly besmirched. If Putin did the same thing in a speech to the U.S. Congress, you can imagine the howling and caterwauling This was just a very basic, obvious mistake of Diplomacy 101. Doesn’t anyone prep GWB or is he so dumb that he cannot even be prepped?

]]> By: Doug Watts http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-684497 Doug Watts Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:25:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-684497 Bush made two really bad mistakes. First, he tried to publicly lecture the leader of a large and proud country about how they "should be" according to GWB's and the USA's standard of what a country should be. GWB and his "handlers" should have known this was going to immediately cause Vladimir Putin to recoil in defense. Second, GWB used a horrible and ludicrous example -- Iraq today -- as his model of what Russia "should be." The combination created a Perfect Storm which allowed Putin to nail GWB squarely in the jaw. Russia under Putin is no model for a pluralistic and free society. Putin knows that full well. Putin's statement (at another moment) is true -- Russia has never had a free press, free expression and religious freedom. Russia went from feudal monarchy to statist fascism to anarchy to whatever it is now. Even Putin doesn't know what the hell Russia is now, or what it will become. GWB doesn't seem greatly enamored with all the freedoms he recommends Putin adopt, based on his recent actions. In fact, GWB's actions indicate he desires a society more like Russia than the USA in terms of highly centralized power and tightly restricted "freedoms." GWB walked into this body blow because he attempted to preach to Putin from a moral high ground and GWB has spent the last four years diligently tearing down that high ground -- and Putin knows it. Vladimir Putin is all other things aside a very intelligent man and GWB is kind of a dunce who actually thinks that being dumb is a good, wholesome all-American thing. So Putin socked him in the jaw. Bush made two really bad mistakes. First, he tried to publicly lecture the leader of a large and proud country about how they “should be” according to GWB’s and the USA’s standard of what a country should be. GWB and his “handlers” should have known this was going to immediately cause Vladimir Putin to recoil in defense. Second, GWB used a horrible and ludicrous example — Iraq today — as his model of what Russia “should be.” The combination created a Perfect Storm which allowed Putin to nail GWB squarely in the jaw. Russia under Putin is no model for a pluralistic and free society. Putin knows that full well. Putin’s statement (at another moment) is true — Russia has never had a free press, free expression and religious freedom. Russia went from feudal monarchy to statist fascism to anarchy to whatever it is now. Even Putin doesn’t know what the hell Russia is now, or what it will become. GWB doesn’t seem greatly enamored with all the freedoms he recommends Putin adopt, based on his recent actions. In fact, GWB’s actions indicate he desires a society more like Russia than the USA in terms of highly centralized power and tightly restricted “freedoms.” GWB walked into this body blow because he attempted to preach to Putin from a moral high ground and GWB has spent the last four years diligently tearing down that high ground — and Putin knows it. Vladimir Putin is all other things aside a very intelligent man and GWB is kind of a dunce who actually thinks that being dumb is a good, wholesome all-American thing. So Putin socked him in the jaw.

]]> By: Mitch http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-683585 Mitch Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:16:33 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-683585 heh, it seems that here the Bush is tortured to be a scapegoat. In fact his given the best reply. "Just wait". Ask yourself: What did he mean by that? Is he going to improve the Iraq situation or visit Russia in the same manner? Do you think that world leaders are resting on their laurels and accepting the fact that Russia is so abundant in land and what lies beneath and so underutilised? Or do you think that the slaps Russia gives is just gulped? "Sigh", Russian leaders always "slapped" the foreign leaders or gave them the wicked snogs. Just reminisce the Stalin, Hrushhev, Brezhnev. Russia is showing the middle finger to the world, but in fact its only riding the high waves of commodity prices that constitute 78% of national exports. heh, it seems that here the Bush is tortured to be a scapegoat. In fact his given the best reply. “Just wait”. Ask yourself: What did he mean by that? Is he going to improve the Iraq situation or visit Russia in the same manner?

Do you think that world leaders are resting on their laurels and accepting the fact that Russia is so abundant in land and what lies beneath and so underutilised? Or do you think that the slaps Russia gives is just gulped?

“Sigh”, Russian leaders always “slapped” the foreign leaders or gave them the wicked snogs. Just reminisce the Stalin, Hrushhev, Brezhnev.

Russia is showing the middle finger to the world, but in fact its only riding the high waves of commodity prices that constitute 78% of national exports.

]]> By: Vonnie http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-679990 Vonnie Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:19:02 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-679990 Hope you don't mind if I jump into the conversation, very interesting comments and topic. From most of the replies we have alot in common, our country and the boob that is now running it. I'm siding with Europeans, how can so-o-o-o many in this country be ignorant enough to vote for this man. I guess the religious right has more pull than thought. Hope you don’t mind if I jump into the conversation, very interesting comments and topic. From most of the replies we have alot in common, our country and the boob that is now running it. I’m siding with Europeans, how can so-o-o-o many in this country be ignorant enough to vote for this man. I guess the religious right has more pull than thought.

]]> By: JYD http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-678086 JYD Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:48:28 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-678086 I wish Putin would have said, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, <strong>or America</strong>, quite honestly.” Because America is now a failed democracy. I wish Putin would have said, “We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, or America, quite honestly.”

Because America is now a failed democracy.

]]> By: ReidBlog http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-676807 ReidBlog Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:49:31 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-676807 <strong>That darned Bush...</strong> I'm sorry, but George W. Bush's "unplugged" moment at the G8 dinner deserves a second post.... That darned Bush…

I’m sorry, but George W. Bush’s “unplugged” moment at the G8 dinner deserves a second post….

]]> By: zeus http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-676266 zeus Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:09:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-676266 Just wait! Just wait? Tell me George - how much longer need we wait? Just wait! Just wait? Tell me George – how much longer need we wait?

]]> By: modgirl http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675854 modgirl Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:30:55 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675854 <em>one of seixon’s goals is to get people off the subject of the blog and into a tit for tat about his incorrect and lacking of, facts…this guy ruins every blog. Comment by ren — July 15, 2006 @ 3:34 pm yea… i can excuse the new guy, kitchensinkwmds, but the regulars here should know better… i had hoped it could be ignored and allowed to wither… alas… Comment by katy — July 15, 2006 @ 3:39 pm</em> Katy, perhaps it's a good lesson for some, but I find his comments to be annoying and a waste of time. I mean over half of the nearly 500 I've read are focused on him. I wish we could have him banned from discussion unless he agrees to stick to the point and stop with the persecution complex (other web sites would). The fact that he doesn't see the difference in what Putin actually said and what he paraphrased is frightening!! Giacomo is right on with how to post effectively and Seixon should take note. one of seixon’s goals is to get people off the subject of the blog and into a tit for tat about his incorrect and lacking of, facts…this guy ruins every blog.
Comment by ren — July 15, 2006 @ 3:34 pm

yea… i can excuse the new guy, kitchensinkwmds, but the regulars here should know better… i had hoped it could be ignored and allowed to wither…
alas…

Comment by katy — July 15, 2006 @ 3:39 pm

Katy, perhaps it’s a good lesson for some, but I find his comments to be annoying and a waste of time. I mean over half of the nearly 500 I’ve read are focused on him. I wish we could have him banned from discussion unless he agrees to stick to the point and stop with the persecution complex (other web sites would). The fact that he doesn’t see the difference in what Putin actually said and what he paraphrased is frightening!!

Giacomo is right on with how to post effectively and Seixon should take note.

]]> By: Richard Eger http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675701 Richard Eger Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:34:39 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675701 Free press no such thing unless it is owned and run by patriots for patriots working for a common cause. The American public has been so dumbed downed and misled by the press, who has adendas other than watching out for America,that we end up having a preidential election stolen by hubristic moron who things he is a statesman. We the American public wind up embaressed everytime he opens his mouth, and yet do not have the balls to do anything about beacause it might be illegal. Maybe we need to suffer some more Free press no such thing unless it is owned and run by patriots for patriots working for a common cause. The American public has been so dumbed downed and misled by the press, who has adendas other than watching out for America,that we end up having a preidential election stolen by hubristic moron who things he is a statesman. We the American public wind up embaressed everytime he opens his mouth, and yet do not have the balls to do anything about beacause it might be illegal. Maybe we need to suffer some more

]]> By: modgirl http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675698 modgirl Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:33:32 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675698 <em>What I don’t get is why Bush says we are bringing democracy to Iraq. Democracy is a form of government where the people make the choices. If Iraq were a true democracy, the US would be out of Iraq because over three quarters of all Iraqis would choose to have us out of their country. Or maybe all the polls are wrong, just like all the exit polls in the 2004 election. Comment by annodomini — July 15, 2006 @ 2:57 pm</em> I agree. And what I don't get is how Americans can't see how insulting it is to Iraqis for us to assume that we are "giving" them democracy. What Bush has done is to create a vacum for democracy to possibly exist. We have "liberated" them (mission over) in order for them to fight for their own democracy themselves. Like we had to do for many many years. Even the Iraqi politicians are telling us to leave, so they might have a chance to fight it out (and perhaps achieve it) themselves. Oh yes, and how many PMs has Iraq had since they "elected" and freely chose their first one? Hint: They are on their 3rd PM, because Bush didn't like the first two, who were telling him the same thing #3 is -- We want the Americans out, now! <em>Wow, sorry I didn’t paraphrase Putin exactly, it doesn’t change anything. What I wrote him having said has the exact same meaning as what you wrote. Talk about nitpicking. -Seixon </em> Afraid it doesn't. Putin's comment is about what democracy is in Iraq (now). While yours imparts a kind of ownership of that democracy by the Iraqi's. Big difference in my book! If we Americans gave them democracy than it was not theirs to begin with. Subtleties are very important indeed!! What I don’t get is why Bush says we are bringing democracy to Iraq. Democracy is a form of government where the people make the choices. If Iraq were a true democracy, the US would be out of Iraq because over three quarters of all Iraqis would choose to have us out of their country. Or maybe all the polls are wrong, just like all the exit polls in the 2004 election.

Comment by annodomini — July 15, 2006 @ 2:57 pm

I agree. And what I don’t get is how Americans can’t see how insulting it is to Iraqis for us to assume that we are “giving” them democracy. What Bush has done is to create a vacum for democracy to possibly exist. We have “liberated” them (mission over) in order for them to fight for their own democracy themselves. Like we had to do for many many years. Even the Iraqi politicians are telling us to leave, so they might have a chance to fight it out (and perhaps achieve it) themselves. Oh yes, and how many PMs has Iraq had since they “elected” and freely chose their first one? Hint: They are on their 3rd PM, because Bush didn’t like the first two, who were telling him the same thing #3 is — We want the Americans out, now!

Wow, sorry I didn’t paraphrase Putin exactly, it doesn’t change anything. What I wrote him having said has the exact same meaning as what you wrote. Talk about nitpicking. -Seixon

Afraid it doesn’t. Putin’s comment is about what democracy is in Iraq (now). While yours imparts a kind of ownership of that democracy by the Iraqi’s. Big difference in my book! If we Americans gave them democracy than it was not theirs to begin with. Subtleties are very important indeed!!

]]> By: Pookie http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675644 Pookie Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:58:07 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675644 What a f**king idiot (which is a phrase I'm sure most, if not all, world leaders use themselves to described King George VII). Can we PLEASE get this dingle berry's right-wing GOP freaks out of the House so we can FINALLY IMPEACH this asshole??!! Jesus H. Christ he's an embarrassment. What a f**king idiot (which is a phrase I’m sure most, if not all, world leaders use themselves to described King George VII). Can we PLEASE get this dingle berry’s right-wing GOP freaks out of the House so we can FINALLY IMPEACH this asshole??!! Jesus H. Christ he’s an embarrassment.

]]> By: modgirl http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675624 modgirl Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:38:04 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675624 Free press in Iraq -- Yeah, just tell that to Al Jazeera, who was conveniently blown up in the shock and awe program. And the point of what Putin pointed out is, We aren't winning the hearts and minds of anyone else in the world when in extolling the virtues of democracy and freedom, Bush uses an obvious example which shows the hypocrisy of his own version of freedom. Free press in Iraq — Yeah, just tell that to Al Jazeera, who was conveniently blown up in the shock and awe program.

And the point of what Putin pointed out is, We aren’t winning the hearts and minds of anyone else in the world when in extolling the virtues of democracy and freedom, Bush uses an obvious example which shows the hypocrisy of his own version of freedom.

]]> By: Vanguard News Network » Blog Archive » Nickel Rant: R.I.P. America http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675160 Vanguard News Network » Blog Archive » Nickel Rant: R.I.P. America Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:04:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675160 [...] Look at the following dialogue between Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin at yesterday’s G8 summit in Russia: [...] [...] Look at the following dialogue between Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin at yesterday’s G8 summit in Russia: [...]

]]> By: Vanguard News Network » Blog Archive » Nickel Rant: R.I.P. America http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/comment-page-10/#comment-675073 Vanguard News Network » Blog Archive » Nickel Rant: R.I.P. America Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:30:46 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/15/putin-jab/#comment-675073 [...] Look at the following dialogue between Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin at yesterday’s G8 summit in Russia: BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him (Putin) that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy. [...] [...] Look at the following dialogue between Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin at yesterday’s G8 summit in Russia: BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him (Putin) that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy. [...]

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