Williams Confronts Kristol: ‘You Just Want War, War, War, And You Want Us In More War’
Williams Confronts Kristol: ‘You Just Want War, War, War, And You Want Us In More War’
This morning on Fox News Sunday, William Kristol argued that the Bush administration’s “coddling” of Iran had “invited” the latest outbreak of violence, and that the United States should join in the current fighting. Juan Williams pushed back:
You just want war, war, war, and you want us in more war. You wanted us in Iraq. Now you want us in Iran. Now you want us to get into the Middle East. … You’re saying, why doesn’t the United States take this hard, unforgiving line? Well, the hard and unforgiving line has been, we don’t talk to anybody. We don’t talk to Hamas. We don’t talk to Hezbollah. We’re not going to talk to Iran. Where has it gotten us, Bill?
Kristol threw up his hands and didn’t answer. Watch it:
Full transcript:
KRISTOL: Look, our coddling of Iran — if I can use the neutral term like that — over the last six to nine months has emboldened them. I mean, is Iran behaving like a timid regime that’s very worried about the U.S.? Or is Iran behaving recklessly and in a foolhardy way?
WALLACE: But isn’t that the result of what’s happened in Iraq?
KRISTOL: No, it’s a result of our deducing from the situation in Iraq that we can’t stand up to Iran. I mean, when we stand up over and over and say Iran is shipping Improvised Explosive Devices into Iraq and killing U.S. soldiers, and Syria’s providing a line for terrorists to come into Iraq and kill U.S. soldiers, and that’s unacceptable. That’s not helpful. And then we do nothing about it. When Ahmadinejad says provocative things, continues to ship arms to Hezbollah, and we say, okay, maybe now we’ll give you direct talks. That, unfortunately, that weakness has been provocative. Ahmadinejad feels emboldened. Now we need to show him, and I think the administration has done a good job the last couple of days of showing him, that he miscalculated. And indeed, this is a great opportunity. I think our weakness, unfortunately, invited this aggression, but this aggression is a great opportunity to begin resuming the offensive against the terrorist groups. Israel is fighting four of our five enemies in the Middle East, in a sense. Iran, Syria, sponsors of terror; Hezbollah and Hamas. Al Qaeda doesn’t seem to be involved. We have to take care of them in Iraq. This is an opportunity to begin to reverse the unfortunate direction of the last six to nine months and get the terrorists and the jihadists back on the defensive.
WILLIAMS: Well, it just seems to me that you want…you just want war, war, war, and you want us in more war. You wanted us in Iraq. Now you want us in Iran. Now you want us to get into the Middle East, where I think there’s a real interesting dynamic at play. I think it’s psychological on the part of Israel and many of its supporters, and I’ll throw you in here. Somehow you see Israel as weak, and you see Ehud Olmert as weak –
WALLACE: He’s the new prime minister —
WILLIAMS: The new prime minister of Israel. And the defense minister as weak. Everybody is weak in the aftermath of Sharon, and so everybody has to prove what a man they are in the Middle East, including — you’re saying, why doesn’t the United States take this hard, unforgiving line? Well, the hard and unforgiving line has been, we don’t talk to anybody. We don’t talk to Hamas. We don’t talk to Hezbollah. We’re not going to talk to Iran. Where has it gotten us, Bill?
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Kristol is a dirty warmongering Neocon so yes he wants more war in Middle East, especially attacking Syria and Iran!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:02 pmIt’s becoming painfully obvious just how much the Zionist lobbies like AIPAC have been manipulating he Bush Administration. I think that they have become so emboldened, and arrogant by their success (by their standards) in Iraq, that they think they can pretty much get anything past the unwashed masses at this point. Either that or they see their power slipping away and are becoming desperate.
I hope just hope that Americans will finally start to see the manipulation of the Bush Administration by Zionist creeps like Kristol.
It’s a long read but very eye opening…
The Israel Lobby: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
July 16th, 2006 at 12:10 pmJuan Williams is exact.
This is what neocons have always wanted: a constant state of war. Kristol, Krauthammer, Wolfowitz, Barnes etc., etc. etc.
Put them all on the front line.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:14 pmI’m sorry, but things are pretty bad when it’s some kind of “point” for our side that one guy yapping on a tv show “threw up his hands and didn’t answer” after hearing our guy yap. Could’ve been Kristol saw the producer saying we’re going on the the next yapper. Who knows?
July 16th, 2006 at 12:15 pm#1 Jay: Of course kristol wants more war. He did NOT have the balls to fight in one himself, he’s a cowardly CHICKENHAWK!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:22 pmPost 5 Ho > All Neocons should either be sentenced to prison terms at GITMO, or deported to Israel ASAP! If it was up to me I would drop Kristol by parachute onto the Hezbollah in Lebanon, with Israeli stooge stenciled on his back! Neocons are frothing for war on Syria/Iran!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:28 pmSO, after 6 years Juan WIlliams grew some balls? Who woulda thunk it?
July 16th, 2006 at 12:30 pmPeople forget that one of the “justifications” put forth by Cheney and Rumsfeld (and perhaps Kristol too) regarding invading Iraq was that it would serve as an example to other countries in the region: mess with WMDs or terrorists, and we’re going to come after you. That by doing so, we would actively discourage them.
Well, just the opposite’s happened, hasn’t it Kristol? And now you’re telling us that our weakness has invited aggression? You can’t have it both ways.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:36 pm#6 Jay; Why waste the prison space and food? It would be better to draft these cowardly neocon chickenhawks into the army and be sure that they are the first to fight(and die) in the wars they want so badly.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:38 pmBill Kristol will fight the terrorists until the last soldier dies. Not the last journalist, the last soldier.
Bill Kristol is the posterboy for the phrase: “The banality of evil”.
-GSD
July 16th, 2006 at 12:38 pmTraitor Joe Lieberman spewed his support yesterday for Israel attacking Lebanon, and he hopes like Kristol that Syria and Iran will be taken care of soon > hint > by being bombed!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:40 pmPost 9 Ho > that would be OK, but they are such cowards that their cowardice on the battlefields would probably get others killed! Better to deport them to Israel, or drop them on Syria to get rid of them!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:43 pmWill someone finally just beat the living shit out of Bill ( Crystal Night ) Kristol.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:44 pmIs Crystal married? Does he have kids of military age. Let this slimy bastard either go fight himself or sign up his kids, not volunteer other people’s kids to do the dirty work that will sooth his neocon heart. This coward is representative of all the neocons, most especially those who hide in TV studios and pontificate, telling the rest of those stupid enough to tune in, what they and their kids should do. Hell would be too good a place for this whole bunch including those in the current adminstration.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:46 pmThe chickenhawk weasel, Kristol, who is where he is today throughnepotism (much like his leader). His facts are usually distorted, his arguments are usually mistaken, and his declarations are usually lies. He is a useless and repulsive individual.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:58 pmI wonder if Juan Williams has a resume prepared - does FOX tolerate dissent?
It is so “Crystal” Clear that our country is very very sick. We’ve lost our way, our identity, our sense of decency, and any claim to an exemplary National character.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:00 pm#14 John t E
July 16th, 2006 at 1:03 pmThis is from Wikipedia:
He is in his mid-50’s. Son of Irving Kristol.
William Kristol’s son, Joe Kristol, attended Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.
Kristol is, reportedly, not well liked by his children.
#15; No, the Bush Propaganda Ministry(Faux news) does NOT tolerate dissent OR any deviation for the official party line.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:04 pm#17. It is not hard to understand why any child of this media whore would not want much to do with him. Who wants to be tied in any way to such a loser. Good for the kids. It shows they at least have functioning brains which they no doubt inherited from their mother.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:06 pmKrystol throws up his hands and says, WELL I wrote a document (PNAC) on it! Years ago!
July 16th, 2006 at 1:07 pmNone of you seemed to hate on the ideas then. Just wait until we initiate Cheney’s plan to use race specific bioweapons as a politically helpful tool.
Yeah, that’s right, The Project For a New American Century and Dick Cheney want to kill certain races of people off in order to achieve political goals.
…AND YOU AREN’T GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, ARE YOU?
I for one am surprised that FOX actually let Juan Williams on the air…don’t they know he’s a member of the sinister liberal media conspiracy?
FOX isn’t a news network…they’re a propaganda outfit masquerading as a news network, period. If you’re interested in just how thoroughly Rupert Murdoch has prostituted the objectivity of FOX in favor of his agenda, just watch this.
Kudos to Juan for speaking truth to power…it’s not surprising that Kristol failed to answer his challenge.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#20; I DO HATE THE PNAC PROGRAM! IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN AMERICAN MEIN KAMPF, AND THOSE WHO ENACT THIS PORNOGRAPHY ONTO THE WORLD SHOULD BE MARCHED TO THE GALLOWS POST-HASTE. AND YES, I DO TAKE IT PERSONNALLY.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:14 pmBill Kristol is that object seen in the toilet bowl after Rice was seen leaving the Men’s Room.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#21 Actually, Juan Williams is usually an Alan Colms liberal. They expect him to come on and occasionally whine about something, but otherwise just be the lefty whipping boy. I am impressed that he had the grapes to actually confront Kristol.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:37 pmIt is time that we classify all of Fox News as campaign spending by the Republican party. Advertizing there is just another political contribution. Annual expenses from the balance sheet should be chalked up as campaign spending. Juan Williams is just a veneer to lend credence to the idea that they deliver more than propaganda. This is not a news organization, it’s an outlet for campaign spin. It needs to be brought under the rubric of campaign finance laws (pathetic as they are).
July 16th, 2006 at 1:46 pmI’m Telling you people. If you keep on electing republicans…including Guliani … People like Kristol, who is a neo-con are going to drive the US into the ground. Kristol and all of the neo-cons have this crazy vision of the world which they will never get. So when you elect Guliani or McCain or whom ever, they don’t represent what this crazy neocons have in mind. All they want is a world that will say and do what they want…which will never happen. They don’t want to talk to anyone, they think force is going to solve everything. But they are only multipuling their enemies.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:04 pm- bb:
If you keep on electing republicans…
We didn’t vote for them.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:11 pmKristol-worst American ever-still fighting for that Pax-Americana.
Well, ok, so he’s not doing the actual fighting, but he is cheering his ass off.
He’s needs to be purged from the USA. If the CIA is feeling a little patriotic, maybe they’ll do me a favor.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:15 pm#26 bb; I did NOT vote for ANY republican, I would move to Antarctica before voting for the GOP.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:17 pmA year ago people like Kristol and Krauthammer offered “three cheers for the Bush doctrine.”
Where are they now?
July 16th, 2006 at 2:31 pmBill’s dad and neo-conservative founding father Irving Kristol once famously said, a neoconservative is “a liberal who’s been mugged by reality.”
Now the once-preening adherents of the Bush Doctrine are being beaten and battered by events on the ground. We just don’t have a new name for them yet.
For the details, see:
July 16th, 2006 at 2:35 pm“Abdul Rahman and the Death of the Bush Doctrine.”
[…] us, Bill? (emphasis from Think Progress) [ Permanent Link | ‘); | ‘); | Technorati Links | del.icio.us ] The Great Society © 2005-2006 TGS was created using the Firefox web browser and may not beviewed as cleanly in others. Get a free website from Blogsome. Theme was originally designed by Lee Penney and has since been customized. Staff Matt Executive Editor Seamus Contributor Monthly Archives […]
July 16th, 2006 at 2:37 pmWilliam Kristol: a repellant little reminder that our democracy has been gamed by spoiled little rich boys. What’s the worst enemy a country can have? The type of person who claims he’s a friend, in this case of the U.S., but is actually an enemy– lying to us all on a regular basis, trying to manipulate us into filling his personal wish list, deceiving thousands of more patriotic citizens into dying for his hidden agenda.
But what else should we expect of the aristocracy we’ve allowed to arise within? Bill Kristol is a friend of the American people to the same degree that aristocracy is compatible with democracy.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:37 pmThose who live by the sword, die by the sword. If our only solution is war then that is what we’ll get and we’ll all be dead. The Christians who are trying to hurry along their Rapture will be just as surprised as the Islamic terrorists who are expecting 72 virgins. Instead of what they expect, both groups will find only eternal damnation and hell.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:57 pm#21 - MonkeyTripe posts: “I for one am surprised that FOX actually let Juan Williams on the air…don’t they know he’s a member of the sinister liberal media conspiracy?
******Fox News knows Juans lib credentials - THAT’s why they call it “Fair AND Balanced”
On a note commenting on the sinister, I would invite “progressive” American-Jews who back Dems and others with their volunteerism and $$$ to delve deeper and see which party empathizes with terrorists. Hmmmm…Left-wing Dems, progs, Greens, socialists…..
July 16th, 2006 at 3:03 pm- mighty aphrodite:
******Fox News knows Juans lib credentials - THAT’s why they call it “Fair AND Balancedâ€
Congratulations on failing to recognize sarcasm, MA.
Always a pleasure.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:36 pmThe answer to the question as to why Kristol and others of this ilk want war, war, and more war can be summed up in a few simple words…power, and the American Military Complex. Eisenhower warned America about this decades ago. It’s no accident that members of PNAC and other neoconservatives coined the term “Pax Americana” after the fashion of the ancient Roman “Pax Romanus” — these people want to control the world and make everyone in it kowtow to the United States in much the same way that the ancient Romans tried to do with Rome. Unfortunately, one of the reasons why Pax Romanus ultimately failed (and why Pax Americana will most likely do the same, if it isn’t already) is that it operates on the somewhat arrogant assumption that what is good for Americans is or should be automatically good for everyone — and this simply isn’t true.
July 16th, 2006 at 4:12 pmI stumbled upon this site for anti-Republicans who persist in tired,simple arguments that keep their “side” from being elected and in “power.” Where have all the intertationalist Dems gone?
Someone from Mars would wonder how Bush could have been elected — twice!– given these rantings.
As I am from the Racical Middle, opposing with equal vigor the L & R extremes, I hope for a changing of the guard in DC, but lament lisiening to this crowd that it will take another election cycle.
To be reflexively as anti-American and pro-barbarian as this crowd’s comments seem to generally be, I worry of my grandchildren.
Get a grip on it. To call Juan W and Alan C such names really reflects on this post’s dooziness index.
Ta Ta.
Bill in Greece
July 16th, 2006 at 4:57 pmI have yet to see any of these war mongers who want war, war, war fighting in any of their wars or having their children fighting in any of their wars. Bill Kristol is a nazi punk who should be forced to fight in the wars he so loudly and arrogantly professes to be in our best interests. I say America should pull all support for every side in the region and let them sort it out themselves because everytime we get involoved it ends poorly.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:06 pm- Bill:
Someone from Mars would wonder how Bush could have been elected — twice!– given these rantings.
As I said earler, these fascists were not elected by the people.
How many more elections will we let them rig before we’ve had enough?
July 16th, 2006 at 5:12 pmCstrut,
July 16th, 2006 at 5:18 pmYou seem reasonable, after a fashion. You call people names, but that is not a real sin.
I would ask you, perhaps others commenting here, “Is there anything you value enough to fight for, go to war for? Would you have become a “war monger” after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? Would you have fought the Germans? If so, and I guess so, have you thought about where you draw the line, and why?”
Bill in Greece
P.S. I rather than my children have “gone to war.”
I think it’s about time Juan Williams showed some spine and attack the Chickenhawks who have taken over our country and most American minds with lies, deceit and stupidity.
In the past Williams didn’t know how to stand up to the bullies at Fox News. Let’s hope he keeps the pace.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:24 pm“….brought to you by PNAC“
July 16th, 2006 at 5:26 pmAttention communists and their buds: we have a volunteer military and No One SENDS their children off to war. You all were real hot on bombing and occupying Serbia as the result of a total lie put forth by the liberals and Jihadists. The real ethnic cleansing was by the militant Muslim Kosovars. J. Williams thinks we should talk to Hezbollah and Hamas. What, exactly, is there to talk about when what they want is the extinction of Israel and America?? When Israel pulled out of Gaza and the West Bank, did the Muslim rulers then go to work to make their land a better place for their people? No, they spent a ton of money with Iran to buy missiles to launch on Israel. This they have been doing for the last 10 months. These are the people you seem to admire. There are certainly a lot of Jew-haters out there. Fox News is the only counter-balance to the liberal ABC/CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC/CNBC and the communists/fascists/Jew haters want to hammer them. No wonder a laarge part of America sees the Dems as the party of nuttiness, hatred and death. The mother ship will be here soon to beam you all up.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:12 pmBroadside,
Broadbent rod
Get a clue, the reason Nixon killed the draft is what you stated, if middle America had to send its son’s and daughters to fight in this mess, We would never have gone. Further are you serious, you use the term Moslem, get it right as a pejorative. There are no Moslem rulers in Lebanon. That is precisely the problem. Hezbollah and Hamas are right wing extremist movements and political parties. The reason Hamas won the election in Palestine was they provided services to the poor and others. The government that the US and the Israelis, supported did not provide these services, i.e. food, medicine. And by the way Hamas and Hezbollah biggest supporters are not the Iranians or the Syrians, our latest target, but the Saudi’s. And if know you neighbor has a proclivity to bomb you back into the Stone Age, wouldn’t you buy arms to protect thyself? And finally give up on the Jew baiting liberal media stichk. You wouldn’t know a Jew if he came up and kicked you in the gonads. Shalom and Assam Allam Lakum. Now is Hezbollah vicious, yes. Are there hands clean, no. Is bombing Lebanon going to get back three troopers. No. Has Israel lost more people since this began, yes. Will there eventually be a cease-fire or marginal peace, yes. Can we afford to attack Iran and Syria, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!! I fear Hezbollah far more than Al Quida. We messed up in taking out a secular Arab leader, who was vicious to his people and have replaced it with a Fundamentalist Islamic regime along the lines of the Taliban. And not all Moslems are Arabs. The Iranians are not Arabs; they are Persian.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:41 pmGenerals gathered in their masses,
just like witches at black masses.
Evil minds that plot destruction,
sorcerers of death’s construction.
In the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning.
Death and hatred to mankind,
poisoning their brainwashed minds.
Politicians hide themselves away.
They only started the war.
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah.
DO you think Ozzy had in mind Kristol, Rumsfeld, Cheney et al
July 16th, 2006 at 6:47 pmwhen he wrote War Pigs?
HONORABLE GAYS IN THE MILITARY VS. HETEROSEXUAL PEDOPHILE RAPISTS
DON’T ASK DON’T TELL DOESN’T WORK!
PINK PANTHERS BLOG!
July 16th, 2006 at 6:49 pmHey, abigman
July 16th, 2006 at 7:06 pmHezbollah and Hamas are Muslim jihadists. There are no Muslim rulers in Lebanon? What do you think they are, secular humanists? Where does this right wing extremist label for them come from? That is definately a first. Iran happens to be Muslim, or didn’t you know that? You didn’t addess any of my points. Saddam is a Ba’athist, which is an Arab version of German Nazism. But he aligned himself with the Jihadists to try and save his sorry ass. An alliance of convenience. And it is good for mankind that he is no longer in business. I suppose you want to bring back the childrens prison and murder and dump more tens of thousands of innocents into mass graves on a regular basis? It is tragic that there is internecine fighting. The Sunnis were Saddam’s priviliged class in power, and now they resent being out of power. Hence their trying to fight back. Saddam was beloved by the Jihadist suicide/homicide bombers because he paid the surviving family $25,000 after they blew themselves up trying to murder innocents, like people in shopping bazaars and pizza parlors and school buses. I guess YOU could make the argument that he was providing a community service to the Muslim Arabs. And just for your edification, I am married to a Jewish woman, although I am not a jew.
Where was Kristol when god was handing out brains?
Kristol needs to go to Iraq and Lebanon and do some REAL reporting. It’s easy for him to sit in his air conditioned room supporting more war and more war while someone else puts their life on the line fighting these wars.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:32 pmWow, rightwing broadside
The follower of the faith is called a Moslem; Islam is the religion of the faithful, you Moron. A Moslem can be from many countries including the Philippines. They are not Arabs but Moslems. And furthermore, although no fan of Sadaam, Bush 1 and Rummy had no problems in dealing with him. And Hezbollah and Hamas are right wing extremists. They believe in the destruction of a country and subjugation of its people. You want to call that Liberal? And Israel has been killing Palestinians for decades ever heard of the King David Hotel and the Haganah, and the Mossad. By the way I would have not had a problem if we had the Mossad kill Sadaam. But Sadaam was a secular Sunni, non-religious Arab. And my point was that the Shia in Iran are not now or have ever been Arabs. They are Persian.
And Sadaam sticking it to Israel by paying suicide bombers is par for his course. He was and is a brutal dictator. Sadaam fought against Iran for eight years and cost millions of lives. The Iranians threw waves of un-armed soldiers into the teeth of Sadaam war machine. And all Sadaam could get, after using poison gas, was a truce. Now my point is we cannot afford to go to war against the entire Middle East. There are 1.5 billion Moslems in the world, and you want to pick a fight with them WHY?
And lastly we have opened up Sadaam’s rape rooms under new management. What a great plan; use Sadaams horrible prison to conduct our own torture. We took out a guy the Iranians detested.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:33 pm#3 - isn’t a constant state of war also referred to as Carthegean Peace? And where is the great warring country of Carthage now?
July 16th, 2006 at 7:35 pmbroadside,
Military action in the middle east has proven only to beget more military action. If you truly wanted peace for Israel, you would have criticized the endless sabotaging of moderate elements in Palestine that has transpired over the years. No country’s people wishes to be dictated to by outside forces, so of course the extremists attract followers. Why can’t Israel supporters seem to figure out that Israel’s heavy handed approach creates more terrorists than any fanatic muslim ever could? And by the way, Israel’s actions foster resentment the whole world over - when will you get that just perhaps, Israel might gain support if it treated their neighbors less arrogantly.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:45 pmAt the end Kristol played the 9/11 card and even Williams was nodding in agreement that it pretty much trumped anything Juan said.
If those on the left (supposedly) let them play this ace in the hole in every debate they will forever get away with their criminally idealogical behavior. Although, for a brief second it was priceless to see that dumbstruck look on Kristol’s face before he remembered to play the card up his sleeve.
At every turn the left has to remind everyone that Republicans were in charge before 9/11, they did nothing to prevent it, and they’ve made a royal mess of things since. Only Wes Clark was prepared to make Bush run in 2004 from September 10th, the only possible winning strategy the Dems could have implemented.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:51 pmRW religious conservatives want war because 1) It generates more profits for their corporatists who then fund the GOP with this blood money and; 2) The rapturists believe that you have to kill everybody for Jesus to come back.
Contrast that to normal people who don’t want war unless it’s a last resort to defend yourself.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:52 pmHey Abig
July 16th, 2006 at 8:00 pmThe name of their religion is Islam, stupid. Adherents are Muslim Or Moslem. And they are all over the world. And militant Islam has declared war on the rest of the non-Muslim world. The Phillipines, Bali, UK, Spain, India, all over. I think we should engage them and kill them where we find them, or they will surely kill us. And that includes the communists. Maybe you think that because you hate George Bush and the American government then that would save you from being beheaded like the rest of us unbelievers? What is there to discuss? Do you want to live under Shariya? Only you could say that we re-opened the rape rooms. How disgusting. And making prisoners wear women’s panties on their head or telling them that other prisoners said they were gay; you would call that torture? We provide prayer rugs, “culturally appropriate meals,” etc. for terrorists, Jihadists and others who flock to Iraq to kill Americans and innocent Iraqis. You see the world as liberal-conservative (as you define them) and think that Islamist Hezbollah and Hamas as conservative. I think you missed the last helicopter out of the 1960’s. Or you need to adjust your meds.
Broadside, I suppose we provided “culuturally appropriate” attack dogs, rapes and beatings as well? You think everything we do in this war is right and justified. The means you are advocating, “killing them where we find them”, couldn’t be more antithetical to the principles on which this country was founded. You should think about what it means to be an American.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:10 pmThe mere existence of the state of Israel creates resentment among the Jihadists, moderate Muslims and the Left. Israel has pulled out of the so-called disputed lands and the Muslim rulers (this is what they are, like it or not) would not go to work to make life better for the inhabitants. They will never do this. Maybe you or your leftist buds could tell the world why. Why waste time and money lobbing unguided missiles into Israel? And while you’re at it, tell the rest of us how George Bush was behind the 9-11 attacks on the US, the Bali hotel bombing, the London transit bombings, the Kobar Towers in Africa, the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the recent India transit bombings and all the rest. On the Fox News program, J. Williams’ remark was so brain-dead even Kristol was speechless. Again…tell me what there is to discuss with Hezbollah and Hamas after we have talked for years in the Oslo “Accords?” When they just want you dead, WHAT IS THERE TO DISCUSS?
July 16th, 2006 at 8:19 pmyou’re right, broadside.
i guess you need to enlist so you can go kill them.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:30 pmBrodaside,
July 16th, 2006 at 8:32 pmYou make it sound as if Israel has been an innocent player in all of this. In fact, Israel has consistently sabotaged the moderate voices that could have affected change all around it. And why has Israel done this? An Arab might guess it was part of a longterm strategy to grab more land. There are plenty of fanatical Zionists living in the West Bank and previously in Gaza - and the Israeli government has been all too happy over the past twenty years to let them hope for their Biblical fantasies of controlling the entire area. So dont pretend that Arab government’s are the only one’s that don’t have their people’s best interests at stake.
In 2003, King Mohamed VI, of Morocco, warned that a US invasion of Iraq would open the gates of Hell. This is exactly what the Illegitimate US Regime wants.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:36 pmGrat article from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ israel/ comment/ 0,,1822143,00.html
The west must recognise that Israel’s agenda is in conflict with its own
The Olmert government, Hizbullah and Hamas are tacitly united in rejection of any moves towards a compromise peace
David Clark
July 16th, 2006 at 8:39 pmMonday July 17, 2006
The Guardian
j_
July 16th, 2006 at 8:41 pmWhen there are bad things done by our soldiers, like at the prison, we investigate, condemn and prosecute for this behavior. The dogs were held back in a threatening manner, not set upon the prisoners. The main difference is, it is not policy. And you are right about how the world has changed in 220 years or so. As I said in a previous post, the Militant Muslims have declared war on us. They always say this. So how to respond? Many of us say “kill them where we find them.” this is appropriate response to those who live to destroy you. Again, tell me-should we stand down from the Global War On Terrorism? Does it make you warm and fuzzy all over when Americans and other innocents are killed in attacks? Or do you have so much hatred for George Bush(I dislike some of his ideas and policies) that you think this is his war? Do you so hate the American government that you will root for the bad guys? I am pro-American. If the French government, who was bought out in the so-called Iraqi Oil-For-Food program, is opposed to our policies to protect American lives, then screw them. The only people we can rely upon to protect our interests and lives are us. Not Russia. Not the U.N. We will sometimes ally ourselves with other nations when our mutual interests intersect. We allied ourselves with the bloodiest tyrant (J. Stalin) in the history of the world(well, maybe Mao could claim that honor) to defeat a more aggressive enemy-Hitler. I guess the question is, do you support the American efforts to fight back against the Islamo-Fascists, who have declared war on us?
The Palestinians want peace. The Israelis want peace. Americans want peace. Iraqis want peace. We all friggin want peace.
It’s the morons in charge, and the mindless who follow them, with the personality disorders. The policy currently being enacted in the MidEast is “whoever kills all the others first wins.”
And yeah, Bush is playing the same game in Iraq: Victory = every single enemy combatant/terrorist/insurgent dead.
O God, I feel a Vietnam analogy coming on…
July 16th, 2006 at 8:44 pmKristol needs to see this movie: http://www.thewartapes.com/screenings/
July 16th, 2006 at 8:53 pmOh and btw, broadside:
. No. I don’t. Not these efforts, which are making the problem worse. We need smarter people making better decisions. Bush is dangerous. His adminsitration is dangerous. Just because they’re the “American Government” doesn’t mean they’re automatically right, like too many autamaton supporters believe.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:55 pmbroadside (narrowmind),
most soldiers prosecuted for offenses in iraq have gotten extremely light sentences compared to if they had been tried in a civilian court.
if torture wasn’t a policy the administration wouldn’t have had any opposition to the anti-torture bill. there would have been no reason.
militant muslims like us “fighting them over there” — it helps them recruit, it weakens our ability to respond to other threats. like now.
“Global War on Terrorism”? where have you been? didn’t you know the new cool trendy term for it is “World War III”? man am i excited! this war just keeps getting better!
Does it make you warm and fuzzy all over when non-Americans and other innocents are killed in attacks?
does dislike of american government policies equate to hate? does dislike of the american government automatically require “rooting for the bad guys”?
pro-american?… you mean you’re a nationalist? being american means we’re supposed to ignore and deny the bad or illegal things our government does? as an american living in another country, i can tell you firsthand that our government is harming our image.
the oil for food program did allow some to greatly profit — american corporations, for instance. that’s why that story went away so fast.
We allied ourselves with the bloodiest tyrant (S Hussein) in the history of the middle east (well, maybe Osama could claim that honor) to defeat a less aggressive enemy-the shah of iran. we then went on to help iran get weapons also.
I guess the question is, are you at all capable of seeing things any other way than just black or white?
July 16th, 2006 at 9:12 pmI’ve seen Juan Williams get is hackles up the last few weeks against the Fox idiocy. Bye Bye Juan, you will do well getting away from the freaks over there.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:13 pmI see. So the main enemy is George Bush, then. I’s still waiting for the leftists to make a coherent statement as to what American response should be to the Islamo-Fascists war on us should be. The Jews living in what was Trans-Jordan (the Romans made up the name of Palestine, in honor of the Philistines, to discount the Jews) called themselves Palistinians. There was a Palestinian Philharmonic Orchestra 80 years ago made up of Jewish musicians.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:15 pmI have made the point 3 times that, after the Israelis left the areas that they had settled after defeating a combined Arab attack, that instead of trying to build an economy and make things better for their people, they chose to send unguided missiles into Israel. The ruling elite of the people you call “Palestinians” do not want peace, as we define it. They want all the Jews dead, Israel destroyed. Then they would still be resentful of Americans. I have no particular ties to Israel, but they are the only modern democracy in the area not ruled by bloodthirsty lunatics. They are a tiny country surrounded by forces that work 24/7 for their destruction. By the way, the bombing of the Kind David Hotel was done to fight the colonizing British, whose military HQ was there. And, they called it in ahead of time so people could get out. The Jihadists target innocents as a practice. Why would you or any of your friends side with them? Just curious.
broadside;
You have been duped into thinking that Iraq has something to do with the so called war on terrorism. Bush threw a wrench into the war on terrorism when we pulled resources from Afghanistan and made Iraq the nnew priority. How is this debacle in Iraq helping us win this war on terror? Face it, there is no war on terror - Cheney had his sights on Iraq the day they took office - this has been documented.
As for torture not beiong policy, you are just plain wrong and uninformed. Why has the administration made it so difficult to conduct investigations and pass resolutions prohibiting torture? From the start they wanted this option and if you dont believe it - read more about the general who oversaw Abu Grhaib, Janis Karpinski. You are simply in denial about what the government is doing.
Basically, in answer to your question, do i support the war on terror, I would have to say that the war terror doesnt exist so there is nothing to support. Besides, how do you conduct war against a tactic? One could argue that we won the American Revolution based on terror type tactics. So, this whole argument is nonsense - there is no such thing as a war on terror. This is a war for oil, Israel, military profiteering, and American religious fanaticism, that is all.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:19 pmSmackdown: GOP Journalist Called Warmonger…
Fox’s Juan Williams to GOP Weekly Standard Bill Kristol on nationwide Fox News Sunday broadcast:……
July 16th, 2006 at 9:28 pmI’s still waiting for the leftists to make a coherent statement as to what American response should be to the Islamo-Fascists war on us should be.
how about finish afghanistan, capture or kill osama, and fortify america? that sure sounded like a good idea 5 years ago. too bad some incompetent fools with no military experience hijacked our foreign policy and got us started building the oil empire.
you’s really are a singleminded partisan. the problem is, you don’t want war on just “islamo-fascists”, you want war on everyone you don’t like or agree with. the far right have been undermining america since wwii by vilifying their own countrymen. now “liberals” and “leftists” are as good as terrorist-lovers
your attitude weakens america by dividing it and perpetuating a culture war.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:32 pmdear broadside,
enjoyed you post.
About your talking points (old and tired) re Dems as the party of of ……………………………………………..Funny, there are more Dems than Repub by 37@ to 33% according to Rasmussen, a Right leaning polling site.
You are saying that there are more crazy than sane Americans. That sounds like a Jihadist statement. During time of war you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy by your anti-American comments.
Go over to your Jihadist anti-American bashing web sites to place you anti-American screeds.
Americans, love them or leave them! God bless Americans!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 10:16 pmHey, we decided to lend a hand to Saddam (using satellite intel and such) in his stupid 80’s war against Iran when it looked like his forces might get overrun by the counterattacking Iranians, who would send their wounded and children, arms linked, marching across minefields to clear them. At the time, we harbored more animus against the Iranians, I guess. The Shah was overthrown in 1979 when Jimmy C threw him overboard. See how that gesture got us good will with the Islamists. Living in another country gives you a good view of how the Socialist/politically correct Euros and others resent us for being so successful. In the aftermath of WWII the Greek communists, in their attemped takeover, shipped off thousands of captured children to the Soviet Union to be re-educated as good little communists, never to return. I guess they and their political soulmates would resent us. And for some reason there is huge resentment from the rest of the world because we have relatively low tax rates.There is also a huge upsurge in Jew-hatred in the rest of the world, particularly Europe. What I am saying is that I am not overly concerned that they may resent us. If the political elites of France or Russia resent and hate us (and many of them are consumed with it) I look upon it as a badge of honor. It’s really easy to see how fascism gained a foothold.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:17 pmKnowing Faux News, he’ll be fired by tomorrow.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:30 pmFirst, we, as Americans, are incapable of fighting a war against domestic enemies. There are many reasons for this. Because of our tradition of loving freedom, apathy, leftists hating their own elected officials more than the IF’s. We are not willing to do the things (enacting more extreme laws allowing the government to indentify and go after terrorists and their funding sources) to allow this. So, the option for withdrawing from the world and building FortressAmerica is not possible. As long as I have been alive, more people have been registered Dems (I used to be one) than Republicans. One reason for this is the aftermath of the Civil War. Republicans (the party of Lincoln) were resented in the South, so they became Dems. More Senate Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and Dems. AlGore’s daddy was agin’ it. Another reason is that the Dems’ policies of more welfare, higher taxes to redistribute wealth and racial division and pandering creates a readymade constituancy. Not to mention the Left’s Long March through the Institutions, mainly the University/College level. But that’s another story. The point is, your idea that more people are registered Dem makes everyone else Anti-American is lunacy. The Left has no ideas, no vision, other than anti-Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice. You people will never understand this. Raw hatred is not a valid political platform. The Democrat party I knew actually had big ideas, but those people are dead and the party has been hijacked. Without the leftist hatred there is nothing…
July 16th, 2006 at 10:37 pm“lend a hand”!!!
that is hilarious. you have your own version of reality for everything. we also decided to send him anthrax. and dengue virus. and the plague. and helicopters. and tanks, via egypt.
we’ve been through this all before, and when i provided the proof you asked for, you ran away like a little scared elf princess.
your outrage is selective and convenient. then, we could help him. now, it’s the moral and correct thing to overthrow him. make up your tiny mind.
and just fyi, i don’t happen to meet any “political elites” from france or russia. most people i meet are normal australians and british who are pissed off because we’re screwing things up, bigtime.
you really do live in a sheltered world, where what you don’t want to believe is filtered right out. reality is going to come crashing down on you one day very soon… probably sometime in november.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:47 pmyou live in a fantasy world. your last post is recycled talking points.
has it ever occurred to you that the reason republicans keep repeating that “no ideas” canard is because they don’t have any ideas themselves?
you obviously have a history of partisanship. you admit it in your post above. i, on the other hand, have never been registered member of any party. i tend to vote for balance of power. the republicans are going down in november. you can put your hands over your ears and scream “no ideas, no ideas, no ideas” all you want, but prepare to be disappointed.
i’m glad i’m not an ignorant partisan that hates my own countrymen because they have a different opinion than me. that’s just imbecilic nonsense and it weakens america.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:56 pmHardliners of the Reichwing are all cowards, liars, and crooks who have never served in the military or battle but think that starting wars will provide the profiteering for their military industrial complex.
When you are full of their shit and see through their madness…
Vote Democrat and help take this country back from the insane and corrupt Reichwingnuts.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:04 pmbroadside,
Way to go!! I have been reading your posts with admiration for your patient take down of the quislings here, who were having a field day of thought free invective and reflexive hate filled rhetoric before you took them on. Anyone objectively evaluating the arguments made in this exchange would conclude that the majority of the anti-Kristol folks here know nothing about history, and think that everything happening in the world in a reaction to US actions. Heres a clue for you all - just because someone can be put into the victim category does not make them right. They don’t need you to save them. In fact, it would really help if you realized that the terrorists are psychotics.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:06 pmjust because someone can be put into the victim category does not make them right.
no, it just makes them the right-wing. the far right wing are afraid of everything. fear rules your lives. the terrorists, gays, flag-burning, immigration…the far right-wing position on all of these issues is guided by fear.
everytime you hear someone exclaim that “somebody” wants to “destroy america”, that’s fear. it takes a lot more valor to stop violence than to start it. choosing to attack rather than to understand (and strongly defend) is a fear-based decision from fear-based victim exploiters.
this administration is trying to make victims out of the whole of america. looks like they’ve already succeeded with formerlefty and broadside.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:16 pmHow interesting to read that, because I believe we should hunt down the Jihadists that are out there working for our death and destruction by plotting terrorist acts, that I want to kill people with whom I disagree. Just scroll up to read leftist threats and advocating the arrest and murder of Fox News employees or Senators and assorted government officials. So like the recordings of broadcasts taken from the 70’s and 80’s of Radio Moscow and Radio Pyonyang accusing the Americans of being “gangsters” and of doing all sorts of dastardly deeds, things that the communists, in fact, did. Oh, and the GWOT is not a zero-sum game. We can simultaneously uproot and disrupt the Taliban and their training camps in Afghanistan AND expand the search for OBL and take out the Ba’athist regime in Iraq. Just like cutting taxes doesn’t mean there will be less money taken by the government overall. The economy is not a static model. I know this may be painful for most of you to hear, but letting productive citizens keep more of their money expands the economy and creates more opportunity and jobs. But the sense of what I’m reading here is that there is no threat from Militant Islam, therefore the War On Terrorism is a fantasy of George Bush and the “Neocons” (read: Jews) and for oil or diamonds or jade or something. Like we couldn’t have had all the oil we wanted from Kuwait after liberating it. The left also made the oil argument during the Vietnam War. Brilliant.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:16 pmRather than directing your anger at Kristol and just shaking your head in frustration, you should contact the news media which give this man and his fellow neo-cons a platform to spout their murderous ideology and demand that they take all of them off the air, and keep them out of print. Recent culprits include FOX and the Financial Times.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:18 pmbroadside’s version of “history” says we “lent a hand” to saddam. that’s right — donald rumsfeld’s hand. and a little anthrax. some nice other virii, retrovirii, bacteria, and so on.
you should check it out…
July 16th, 2006 at 11:19 pmI dont know much but Williams should not stop just there. He should have smacked that nervous smiling face of Kristol and infuse Kristol with the ultimate fear for white men: angry black men.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:23 pmformerLefty and broadside,
You got it right. Many of the posts on this board are written by those who don’t understand the current situation and the history that is involved. This has nothing to do with the United States’ stance on anything. This is a religous war that has been going on for centuries. We are just witnessing yet another chapter. Do these people truly believe that Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are the victims? It’s just plain ignorance. Maybe these bloggers should get out of the city more often and actually talk to the people of this fine country to understand that they hold the minority opinion.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:27 pmWar gets us losses. US is bankrupt ,as one UK economist postulates. War needs money and DRAFT- are Jena Bush and peers ready to march mined Lebenon??
July 16th, 2006 at 11:28 pmKristol is a coward- asking people to die for his misdirected cause.
Broadside, Are you a Christian?
July 16th, 2006 at 11:28 pmSo like the recordings of broadcasts taken from the 70’s and 80’s of Radio Moscow and Radio Pyonyang accusing the Americans of being “gangsters†and of doing all sorts of dastardly deeds, things that the communists, in fact, did
Comment by broadside
You asked for it, buddy (sorry other posters):
SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.
ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.
CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners’ strike.
HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d’Alene mining region.
OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914.
HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA 1907 Troops “Dollar Diplomacy” protectorate set up.
HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners’ strike by Army.
MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I 1917-18 naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.
RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks
PANAMA 1918-20 Troops “Police duty” during unrest after elections.
HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.
CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.
HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov’t nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal’s return.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; “carpet-bombs” countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov’t.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994-? Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be “terrorist” nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998-? Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime. Forces also engaged in neighboring Pakistan.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002 Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Muslim Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into US combat missions in Sulu Archipelago next to Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Second Gulf War launched for “regime change” in Baghdad. US, joined by UK and Australia, attacks from Kuwait, other Gulf states, and European and US bases.
US gangsters? NO. Murderous State. Read some history.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:29 pmI’m gglad Juan Williams said what he said. It’s about time. He has been such a bend over for FAUX NEWS, and especially for Brit Hume, for so, so long. Nice to see him find his moral compass. He’ll lose it again soon, sadly.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:31 pmboy you Republicans are nothing but eunuchs! Wailing all the time about “Why won’t the Democrats tell us what to do?”. You have control of the U.S. Supreme Court, the Presidency, the house of Representatives and the Senate. The whole friggin enchilada is yours and you don’t know what to do?! You’re friggin IMPOTENT!! You don’t even know what it means to be middle class , fools. Among other things it means having a decent pay scale across America,not just a select few, so your wife doesn’t have to work and can take care of the kids, it means having disposable income, free to spend it on a vacation, college for the kids, etc. It means public education beyond the sixth grade so your kids won’t be like Jethro bodine of the beverly hillbillies, educated only to the sixth grade as was the law before FDR, a democrat president in the 1930’s to 1940’s and who was president during WW2, passed the “New Deal” allowing these NATIONAL programs that gave rise to the american middle class. He passed the 1938 labor law act which outlawed working 16 hour days,afforded overtime protection after 40 hours, etc. It is these things that the Conservative party, the Republicans, are voting to away with. Who is it that is voting to allow outsourcing of jobs? It ain’t Dems fool. Who is giving away American ports to the Arab states with ties to the terrorists? It ain’t the dems fool.Who is it that passes a tax bill that reduces the taxes on the wealthy and has stated PUBLICLY that they intend to reduce or eliminate social programs (social security, public education, medicare, medicaid,etc.). It ain’t the dems fool!!! You voted for this president, you tell him what to do!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:34 pmSorry guys,
Have to check out. Since I hang around right-wing blogs I am unused to the level of invective and pathology here. Let’s see — just in the last ten minutes we have one of the esteemed posters here recommending physical violence against Bill Kristol and playing to a racist steereotype, another advocating that FOX News censor itself, since it is the only news organization that at least tries to present the governments thinking for consideration by the American people who voted for it, and another who thinks that disagreeing with the left about foreign policy means you are automatically a nazi.
Way to go. That sure convinces me you guys are right!!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:35 pmbroadside,
You’re partially correct: “Raw hatred is not a valid political platform.”
That is unless we’re talking about the repug’s campaign against Clinton, right?
I’ll take his extramarital affairs over this groups greed and stupidity anytime.
Dem’s ideas are rooted in the Constitution. It’s a shame that none of you on the right seem to have either read it, or possess any ideas that don’t violate it.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:37 pmGotta back up my boy Juan! Can’t say I’ve ever seen him give in to his repub commentator even when he’s always outnumberd 3 sometimes 4 to one. Brit hume, Tony snowjob, billy Crystal, they’ve all ganged up on him as far back as I can remember and not once to my memory do i recall him failing to stand for democratic principles. He’s the man!!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:40 pmHey Broadside,
Why don’t you take a break from attacking people who disagree with you…
Go visit Freepers and masterbate to the thought of even more war.
Kiss my ass.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:42 pmCV,
July 16th, 2006 at 11:43 pmI was raised Prebyterian but the current church is self-destructing. Very sad.
Let me say that, as much as I disliked the cokehead Bill Clinton, I could (and did) put aside that stuff and recognize that we are in fact, in a war. Israel has little to do with it. The Jihadists have, I say for the unpteenth time, declared war on us, and we should respond by hunting them down, that’s all. Why is that unreasonable? Being nice to them by expressing hatred of Israel does nothing. They would still cut your head off while you are alive if they get the chance. All of you. Go to Israel and they would like you and want to party. Big difference. By the way, why has Bill Kristol earned your hatred and death wish? He is just a writer and political commentator. Jeez, we put up with all the liberal network newsreaders and opinionists. Thank you Mike and formerLefty.
Is anyone buying what broadside has to offer?
Selective memory, re-spun talking points and…well, pure
bullshit spun from whole brown(shirt) cloth.
A person like this is not capable of really thinking beyond
what they are told (as are many people on the ‘left’).
He’s not really a conservative or anything. He’s just a dummy.
So is anyone else that buys the whole *left*/*right* contrivance.
Hit the snooze button again, maybe we’re dreaming.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:47 pmBy formerlefty!
You will not be missed.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:56 pmWay to go. That sure convinces me you guys are right!!
Comment by formerLefty — July 16, 2006 @ 11:35 pm
Yo can assume a higher moral standard if you want, yet you support murderers. Where does that leave you?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:08 amWe can simultaneously uproot and disrupt the Taliban and their training camps in Afghanistan AND expand the search for OBL and take out the Ba’athist regime in Iraq.
yes, that was the prevailing logic in 2002. that’s not how it’s working in 2006. the taliban are resurgent, obl is still free 5 years after the fact, and the baathists have been replaced by sectarian insurgents and extremists. far from there being no threat from militant islam, there is now a greater threat. the policy has made things worse.
if you love the economy so much, have a read of what a real economist thinks of it.
straw man much?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:10 amformerLefty is your typical wingnut who calls talk radio to say, “I used to be a Democrat until…” In other words, he is your typical chickenhawk who thinks that evolution and global warming are only theories–like gravity–and wants to kill all Mexicans who move north. A racist cowardly lyin.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:11 amMemo to broadside: Kristol IS PNAC. This entire war was his idea. He convinced morons like Dumsfeld and Chickenhawk Cheney it was the way to go and they let the Chimp know when he was on his treadmill, chasing a pellet.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:15 amI think Kristol should be extraordinarily rendered to Syria by the CIA. I think he knows more than he admits and the information could be useful to the security of the country.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:26 amOk, I think I get it. Bill Kristol, a commentator (one of many) is actually responsible for the invasion of Iraq. Even though capturing OBL would be considered a great thing for George Bush from a political standpoint, he is secretly in cahoots and wants OBL to continue his murderous ways. And because some remaining Taliban are trying to retake Afghanistan, that means, What? Oh, and just because a lot of scientists and researchers thought, in the 1970’s, that we were headed for a new glacial period, that we are now to believe Al Gore, who was responsible for creating the internet and said that the book and movie “Love Story” was about him and Tipper, that Americans are responsible for the earth all of a sudden heating up? Attn Moonbats! The earth goes through heating and cooling periods throughout its history. After Leif Erickson discovered Greenland and Vikings established a settlement, the earth went through a cooling period. What kind of cars were they driving back then? The sun probably exerts more influence on the climate than anything else, except for the volcanoes. Boy, you guys really lead with your chins.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:37 amWatching the shots that are being taken here by both sides, I have to laugh. This is the reason why I read blogs all the time, because even if you get two opposite sides shooting jabs at each other, you still find a MUCH more developed opinion than anything you see on the news. Yay to the first democratic medium.
Anyway, as a “bleeding-heart” liberal who never voted for the party that was appointed to the executive, I am nevertheless confused by this debate. Our occupation of Iraq was a primarily bullshit maneuver to raise oil profits, that’s obvious. But the thing is, since our media sources (Faux AND all the others) only present the carnage in the Middle East, clips of crazy militants waving their guns, its hard to glean a cogent picture of what life is like for civilians, warfare aside. I just read an article about Turkish girls being persuaded to auto-terminate as a way of recapturing family honor, and it brought to mind some shit I heard about the Taliban way back, regarding the degradation of women in their societies and the menfolk’s ability to beat the hell out of your spouse/daughter/niece/whatever and have it be considered “morally justified.”
I make no bones about the fact that I am pretty ignorant to the situation over there, aside from our dear media and our dear politicians shifting our focus through well-placed commentary and imagery. But the way I see it, if there’s a government - or national “custom” - that allows for the denial of a certain demographic’s unalienable human rights, then that government, or group, should be removed, right? If you have nations that allow men to shave off a woman’s eye makeup with a razor, then action should be taken to curb that, right?
Maybe we Americans should take out our greedy little hands from a volatile area like the Middle East. But if governments there will allow people to be obliterated in such a fashion, how can we, a government that strives for justice, allow such atrocities to take place?
Again, ignorant rant. Maybe someone could provide some answers.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:41 amWonder if young Joe Kristol will serve his country soon?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:45 ambroadside has a serious case of projection. Cokehead drunk deserter Bush placed in office by his daddy’s bought and paid for SCOTUS, only to fail at everything that America needed, from 9/11 on. failure after failure. Failed the US during Katrina. Failed the US by letting Osama escape. Failed the US by letting Osama successfully attack. and this bullshit about jihadists is just a big lir to keep the Nitwit Bush as high in the polls as he is (what, 29%?). You assholes on the right claim that the heartland supports bush, but only his rank, stinking, ignorant redneck morons still stand up for him. Every real american knows full well what a complete disaster he is. broadside is wrong on the facts (act-free, in fact), wrong on ideas, wrong on American history, and jsut wrong. And complainsts about somebody wanting to smack Bill Kristol as “physical violence” are laughable when compared to the snarling dogs of right-wing radio and blogs, calling for the murder of reporteres, editors and any amreican who disagrees. You people are sick, and deserve no consideration for your insane ravings.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:48 amKristol wasn’t “one of many”, but the leader of a very small group.
Are you really that ignorant broadside?
Maybe you’re just filling your quota of cowardly anonymous right-wing posts, so you can get your check.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:50 amHey Broadside, et al.,
9/11 sucked. We gave W the benefit of the doubt, because we were all scared, going into Afghanistan made perfect sense, hunt down OBL justice prevails…Only, your decider decided to go into Iraq which means while we’re in Iraq he cannot get Afghanistan settled and where is OBL free and clear it seems… so we have no justice.
I think Bush went into Iraq to draw our attention from OBL just in case he couldn;t get him. And let’s face it, Iraq’s a great target, most of W’s buddies think his daddy didn’t finish the job anyway, heck, he followed in his father’s footsteps by becoming president, maybe he could take care of Saddam since his dad couldn’t. What ARE teh odds that a President will have son that will become President??? THEN, what are the odds that the son will invade THE SAME COUNTRY the father did??? We just aren’t in Iraq for the right reasons.
Now, having said that, if W was going to go into IRAQ to take out Saddam and quelch potential terrorism, and install a democratic government, he should’ve doubled the number of troops he sent in. This would’ve insured ‘overwhelming force’ as espoused by Colin Powell. But since this was just fixin’ Dad’s mistake, we don;t need overwhelming force, just enough to topple Saddam… I mean the fact that he’s in power is the only thing needling the Bushes…right?
So GWB screwed up by going into IRAQ on folly, then didn’t send enough troops to do the job quickly so they could come home…so now, our troops have been obn so many rotations through IRAQ, their spread too thin, and we don;t have the manpower to fight everywhere (with our volunteer army). So what we do now, in footbal metaphors, is punt. If that means sit and talk with people we don’t like, then let’s do that. If that means take a different look at how Israel can manage more of it’s own relationships with it’s neighbors without blowing itself or them to smithereens, let’s do that.
The fact is, we are left with few alternatives, because GWB messed up all the first options.
Give it a rest… you’re guy F’d-up royally, and it dissapointed ALL OF US who gave him our trust after 9/11. We need a different course, and this guy cannot do it.
It takes a big man to get involved with all of these very important life and death decisions… it take an even bigger man to admit mistakes and move onto another path.
I for one am tired of being made to live in a constant state of fear. Aren’t you? Is it possible that Fear could make people feel reluctant to vote the incumbent out of power? Is it possible that Fear is being used to manipulate voters?
Just askin’
Peace.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:00 amsorry for all the typos… I typed faaaaast…
July 17th, 2006 at 1:02 am