Williams Confronts Kristol: ‘You Just Want War, War, War, And You Want Us In More War’
Williams Confronts Kristol: ‘You Just Want War, War, War, And You Want Us In More War’
This morning on Fox News Sunday, William Kristol argued that the Bush administration’s “coddling” of Iran had “invited” the latest outbreak of violence, and that the United States should join in the current fighting. Juan Williams pushed back:
You just want war, war, war, and you want us in more war. You wanted us in Iraq. Now you want us in Iran. Now you want us to get into the Middle East. … You’re saying, why doesn’t the United States take this hard, unforgiving line? Well, the hard and unforgiving line has been, we don’t talk to anybody. We don’t talk to Hamas. We don’t talk to Hezbollah. We’re not going to talk to Iran. Where has it gotten us, Bill?
Kristol threw up his hands and didn’t answer. Watch it:
Full transcript:
KRISTOL: Look, our coddling of Iran — if I can use the neutral term like that — over the last six to nine months has emboldened them. I mean, is Iran behaving like a timid regime that’s very worried about the U.S.? Or is Iran behaving recklessly and in a foolhardy way?
WALLACE: But isn’t that the result of what’s happened in Iraq?
KRISTOL: No, it’s a result of our deducing from the situation in Iraq that we can’t stand up to Iran. I mean, when we stand up over and over and say Iran is shipping Improvised Explosive Devices into Iraq and killing U.S. soldiers, and Syria’s providing a line for terrorists to come into Iraq and kill U.S. soldiers, and that’s unacceptable. That’s not helpful. And then we do nothing about it. When Ahmadinejad says provocative things, continues to ship arms to Hezbollah, and we say, okay, maybe now we’ll give you direct talks. That, unfortunately, that weakness has been provocative. Ahmadinejad feels emboldened. Now we need to show him, and I think the administration has done a good job the last couple of days of showing him, that he miscalculated. And indeed, this is a great opportunity. I think our weakness, unfortunately, invited this aggression, but this aggression is a great opportunity to begin resuming the offensive against the terrorist groups. Israel is fighting four of our five enemies in the Middle East, in a sense. Iran, Syria, sponsors of terror; Hezbollah and Hamas. Al Qaeda doesn’t seem to be involved. We have to take care of them in Iraq. This is an opportunity to begin to reverse the unfortunate direction of the last six to nine months and get the terrorists and the jihadists back on the defensive.
WILLIAMS: Well, it just seems to me that you want…you just want war, war, war, and you want us in more war. You wanted us in Iraq. Now you want us in Iran. Now you want us to get into the Middle East, where I think there’s a real interesting dynamic at play. I think it’s psychological on the part of Israel and many of its supporters, and I’ll throw you in here. Somehow you see Israel as weak, and you see Ehud Olmert as weak –
WALLACE: He’s the new prime minister —
WILLIAMS: The new prime minister of Israel. And the defense minister as weak. Everybody is weak in the aftermath of Sharon, and so everybody has to prove what a man they are in the Middle East, including — you’re saying, why doesn’t the United States take this hard, unforgiving line? Well, the hard and unforgiving line has been, we don’t talk to anybody. We don’t talk to Hamas. We don’t talk to Hezbollah. We’re not going to talk to Iran. Where has it gotten us, Bill?
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Kristol is a dirty warmongering Neocon so yes he wants more war in Middle East, especially attacking Syria and Iran!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:02 pmIt’s becoming painfully obvious just how much the Zionist lobbies like AIPAC have been manipulating he Bush Administration. I think that they have become so emboldened, and arrogant by their success (by their standards) in Iraq, that they think they can pretty much get anything past the unwashed masses at this point. Either that or they see their power slipping away and are becoming desperate.
I hope just hope that Americans will finally start to see the manipulation of the Bush Administration by Zionist creeps like Kristol.
It’s a long read but very eye opening…
The Israel Lobby: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
July 16th, 2006 at 12:10 pmJuan Williams is exact.
This is what neocons have always wanted: a constant state of war. Kristol, Krauthammer, Wolfowitz, Barnes etc., etc. etc.
Put them all on the front line.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:14 pmI’m sorry, but things are pretty bad when it’s some kind of “point” for our side that one guy yapping on a tv show “threw up his hands and didn’t answer” after hearing our guy yap. Could’ve been Kristol saw the producer saying we’re going on the the next yapper. Who knows?
July 16th, 2006 at 12:15 pm#1 Jay: Of course kristol wants more war. He did NOT have the balls to fight in one himself, he’s a cowardly CHICKENHAWK!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:22 pmPost 5 Ho > All Neocons should either be sentenced to prison terms at GITMO, or deported to Israel ASAP! If it was up to me I would drop Kristol by parachute onto the Hezbollah in Lebanon, with Israeli stooge stenciled on his back! Neocons are frothing for war on Syria/Iran!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:28 pmSO, after 6 years Juan WIlliams grew some balls? Who woulda thunk it?
July 16th, 2006 at 12:30 pmPeople forget that one of the “justifications” put forth by Cheney and Rumsfeld (and perhaps Kristol too) regarding invading Iraq was that it would serve as an example to other countries in the region: mess with WMDs or terrorists, and we’re going to come after you. That by doing so, we would actively discourage them.
Well, just the opposite’s happened, hasn’t it Kristol? And now you’re telling us that our weakness has invited aggression? You can’t have it both ways.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:36 pm#6 Jay; Why waste the prison space and food? It would be better to draft these cowardly neocon chickenhawks into the army and be sure that they are the first to fight(and die) in the wars they want so badly.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:38 pmBill Kristol will fight the terrorists until the last soldier dies. Not the last journalist, the last soldier.
Bill Kristol is the posterboy for the phrase: “The banality of evil”.
-GSD
July 16th, 2006 at 12:38 pmTraitor Joe Lieberman spewed his support yesterday for Israel attacking Lebanon, and he hopes like Kristol that Syria and Iran will be taken care of soon > hint > by being bombed!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:40 pmPost 9 Ho > that would be OK, but they are such cowards that their cowardice on the battlefields would probably get others killed! Better to deport them to Israel, or drop them on Syria to get rid of them!
July 16th, 2006 at 12:43 pmWill someone finally just beat the living shit out of Bill ( Crystal Night ) Kristol.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:44 pmIs Crystal married? Does he have kids of military age. Let this slimy bastard either go fight himself or sign up his kids, not volunteer other people’s kids to do the dirty work that will sooth his neocon heart. This coward is representative of all the neocons, most especially those who hide in TV studios and pontificate, telling the rest of those stupid enough to tune in, what they and their kids should do. Hell would be too good a place for this whole bunch including those in the current adminstration.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:46 pmThe chickenhawk weasel, Kristol, who is where he is today throughnepotism (much like his leader). His facts are usually distorted, his arguments are usually mistaken, and his declarations are usually lies. He is a useless and repulsive individual.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:58 pmI wonder if Juan Williams has a resume prepared – does FOX tolerate dissent?
It is so “Crystal” Clear that our country is very very sick. We’ve lost our way, our identity, our sense of decency, and any claim to an exemplary National character.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:00 pm#14 John t E
July 16th, 2006 at 1:03 pmThis is from Wikipedia:
He is in his mid-50’s. Son of Irving Kristol.
William Kristol’s son, Joe Kristol, attended Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.
Kristol is, reportedly, not well liked by his children.
#15; No, the Bush Propaganda Ministry(Faux news) does NOT tolerate dissent OR any deviation for the official party line.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:04 pm#17. It is not hard to understand why any child of this media whore would not want much to do with him. Who wants to be tied in any way to such a loser. Good for the kids. It shows they at least have functioning brains which they no doubt inherited from their mother.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:06 pmKrystol throws up his hands and says, WELL I wrote a document (PNAC) on it! Years ago!
July 16th, 2006 at 1:07 pmNone of you seemed to hate on the ideas then. Just wait until we initiate Cheney’s plan to use race specific bioweapons as a politically helpful tool.
Yeah, that’s right, The Project For a New American Century and Dick Cheney want to kill certain races of people off in order to achieve political goals.
…AND YOU AREN’T GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, ARE YOU?
I for one am surprised that FOX actually let Juan Williams on the air…don’t they know he’s a member of the sinister liberal media conspiracy?
FOX isn’t a news network…they’re a propaganda outfit masquerading as a news network, period. If you’re interested in just how thoroughly Rupert Murdoch has prostituted the objectivity of FOX in favor of his agenda, just watch this.
Kudos to Juan for speaking truth to power…it’s not surprising that Kristol failed to answer his challenge.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#20; I DO HATE THE PNAC PROGRAM! IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN AMERICAN MEIN KAMPF, AND THOSE WHO ENACT THIS PORNOGRAPHY ONTO THE WORLD SHOULD BE MARCHED TO THE GALLOWS POST-HASTE. AND YES, I DO TAKE IT PERSONNALLY.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:14 pmBill Kristol is that object seen in the toilet bowl after Rice was seen leaving the Men’s Room.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#21 Actually, Juan Williams is usually an Alan Colms liberal. They expect him to come on and occasionally whine about something, but otherwise just be the lefty whipping boy. I am impressed that he had the grapes to actually confront Kristol.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:37 pmIt is time that we classify all of Fox News as campaign spending by the Republican party. Advertizing there is just another political contribution. Annual expenses from the balance sheet should be chalked up as campaign spending. Juan Williams is just a veneer to lend credence to the idea that they deliver more than propaganda. This is not a news organization, it’s an outlet for campaign spin. It needs to be brought under the rubric of campaign finance laws (pathetic as they are).
July 16th, 2006 at 1:46 pmI’m Telling you people. If you keep on electing republicans…including Guliani … People like Kristol, who is a neo-con are going to drive the US into the ground. Kristol and all of the neo-cons have this crazy vision of the world which they will never get. So when you elect Guliani or McCain or whom ever, they don’t represent what this crazy neocons have in mind. All they want is a world that will say and do what they want…which will never happen. They don’t want to talk to anyone, they think force is going to solve everything. But they are only multipuling their enemies.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:04 pm- bb:
If you keep on electing republicans…
We didn’t vote for them.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:11 pmKristol-worst American ever-still fighting for that Pax-Americana.
Well, ok, so he’s not doing the actual fighting, but he is cheering his ass off.
He’s needs to be purged from the USA. If the CIA is feeling a little patriotic, maybe they’ll do me a favor.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:15 pm#26 bb; I did NOT vote for ANY republican, I would move to Antarctica before voting for the GOP.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:17 pmA year ago people like Kristol and Krauthammer offered “three cheers for the Bush doctrine.”
Where are they now?
July 16th, 2006 at 2:31 pmBill’s dad and neo-conservative founding father Irving Kristol once famously said, a neoconservative is “a liberal who’s been mugged by reality.”
Now the once-preening adherents of the Bush Doctrine are being beaten and battered by events on the ground. We just don’t have a new name for them yet.
For the details, see:
July 16th, 2006 at 2:35 pm“Abdul Rahman and the Death of the Bush Doctrine.”
[...] us, Bill? (emphasis from Think Progress) [ Permanent Link | '); | '); | Technorati Links | del.icio.us ] The Great Society © 2005-2006 TGS was created using the Firefox web browser and may not beviewed as cleanly in others. Get a free website from Blogsome. Theme was originally designed by Lee Penney and has since been customized. Staff Matt Executive Editor Seamus Contributor Monthly Archives [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 2:37 pmWilliam Kristol: a repellant little reminder that our democracy has been gamed by spoiled little rich boys. What’s the worst enemy a country can have? The type of person who claims he’s a friend, in this case of the U.S., but is actually an enemy– lying to us all on a regular basis, trying to manipulate us into filling his personal wish list, deceiving thousands of more patriotic citizens into dying for his hidden agenda.
But what else should we expect of the aristocracy we’ve allowed to arise within? Bill Kristol is a friend of the American people to the same degree that aristocracy is compatible with democracy.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:37 pmThose who live by the sword, die by the sword. If our only solution is war then that is what we’ll get and we’ll all be dead. The Christians who are trying to hurry along their Rapture will be just as surprised as the Islamic terrorists who are expecting 72 virgins. Instead of what they expect, both groups will find only eternal damnation and hell.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:57 pm#21 – MonkeyTripe posts: “I for one am surprised that FOX actually let Juan Williams on the air…don’t they know he’s a member of the sinister liberal media conspiracy?
******Fox News knows Juans lib credentials – THAT’s why they call it “Fair AND Balanced”
On a note commenting on the sinister, I would invite “progressive” American-Jews who back Dems and others with their volunteerism and $$$ to delve deeper and see which party empathizes with terrorists. Hmmmm…Left-wing Dems, progs, Greens, socialists…..
July 16th, 2006 at 3:03 pm- mighty aphrodite:
******Fox News knows Juans lib credentials – THAT’s why they call it “Fair AND Balancedâ€
Congratulations on failing to recognize sarcasm, MA.
Always a pleasure.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:36 pmThe answer to the question as to why Kristol and others of this ilk want war, war, and more war can be summed up in a few simple words…power, and the American Military Complex. Eisenhower warned America about this decades ago. It’s no accident that members of PNAC and other neoconservatives coined the term “Pax Americana” after the fashion of the ancient Roman “Pax Romanus” — these people want to control the world and make everyone in it kowtow to the United States in much the same way that the ancient Romans tried to do with Rome. Unfortunately, one of the reasons why Pax Romanus ultimately failed (and why Pax Americana will most likely do the same, if it isn’t already) is that it operates on the somewhat arrogant assumption that what is good for Americans is or should be automatically good for everyone — and this simply isn’t true.
July 16th, 2006 at 4:12 pmI stumbled upon this site for anti-Republicans who persist in tired,simple arguments that keep their “side” from being elected and in “power.” Where have all the intertationalist Dems gone?
Someone from Mars would wonder how Bush could have been elected — twice!– given these rantings.
As I am from the Racical Middle, opposing with equal vigor the L & R extremes, I hope for a changing of the guard in DC, but lament lisiening to this crowd that it will take another election cycle.
To be reflexively as anti-American and pro-barbarian as this crowd’s comments seem to generally be, I worry of my grandchildren.
Get a grip on it. To call Juan W and Alan C such names really reflects on this post’s dooziness index.
Ta Ta.
Bill in Greece
July 16th, 2006 at 4:57 pmI have yet to see any of these war mongers who want war, war, war fighting in any of their wars or having their children fighting in any of their wars. Bill Kristol is a nazi punk who should be forced to fight in the wars he so loudly and arrogantly professes to be in our best interests. I say America should pull all support for every side in the region and let them sort it out themselves because everytime we get involoved it ends poorly.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:06 pm- Bill:
Someone from Mars would wonder how Bush could have been elected — twice!– given these rantings.
As I said earler, these fascists were not elected by the people.
How many more elections will we let them rig before we’ve had enough?
July 16th, 2006 at 5:12 pmCstrut,
July 16th, 2006 at 5:18 pmYou seem reasonable, after a fashion. You call people names, but that is not a real sin.
I would ask you, perhaps others commenting here, “Is there anything you value enough to fight for, go to war for? Would you have become a “war monger” after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? Would you have fought the Germans? If so, and I guess so, have you thought about where you draw the line, and why?”
Bill in Greece
P.S. I rather than my children have “gone to war.”
I think it’s about time Juan Williams showed some spine and attack the Chickenhawks who have taken over our country and most American minds with lies, deceit and stupidity.
In the past Williams didn’t know how to stand up to the bullies at Fox News. Let’s hope he keeps the pace.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:24 pm“….brought to you by PNAC“
July 16th, 2006 at 5:26 pmAttention communists and their buds: we have a volunteer military and No One SENDS their children off to war. You all were real hot on bombing and occupying Serbia as the result of a total lie put forth by the liberals and Jihadists. The real ethnic cleansing was by the militant Muslim Kosovars. J. Williams thinks we should talk to Hezbollah and Hamas. What, exactly, is there to talk about when what they want is the extinction of Israel and America?? When Israel pulled out of Gaza and the West Bank, did the Muslim rulers then go to work to make their land a better place for their people? No, they spent a ton of money with Iran to buy missiles to launch on Israel. This they have been doing for the last 10 months. These are the people you seem to admire. There are certainly a lot of Jew-haters out there. Fox News is the only counter-balance to the liberal ABC/CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC/CNBC and the communists/fascists/Jew haters want to hammer them. No wonder a laarge part of America sees the Dems as the party of nuttiness, hatred and death. The mother ship will be here soon to beam you all up.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:12 pmBroadside,
Broadbent rod
Get a clue, the reason Nixon killed the draft is what you stated, if middle America had to send its son’s and daughters to fight in this mess, We would never have gone. Further are you serious, you use the term Moslem, get it right as a pejorative. There are no Moslem rulers in Lebanon. That is precisely the problem. Hezbollah and Hamas are right wing extremist movements and political parties. The reason Hamas won the election in Palestine was they provided services to the poor and others. The government that the US and the Israelis, supported did not provide these services, i.e. food, medicine. And by the way Hamas and Hezbollah biggest supporters are not the Iranians or the Syrians, our latest target, but the Saudi’s. And if know you neighbor has a proclivity to bomb you back into the Stone Age, wouldn’t you buy arms to protect thyself? And finally give up on the Jew baiting liberal media stichk. You wouldn’t know a Jew if he came up and kicked you in the gonads. Shalom and Assam Allam Lakum. Now is Hezbollah vicious, yes. Are there hands clean, no. Is bombing Lebanon going to get back three troopers. No. Has Israel lost more people since this began, yes. Will there eventually be a cease-fire or marginal peace, yes. Can we afford to attack Iran and Syria, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!! I fear Hezbollah far more than Al Quida. We messed up in taking out a secular Arab leader, who was vicious to his people and have replaced it with a Fundamentalist Islamic regime along the lines of the Taliban. And not all Moslems are Arabs. The Iranians are not Arabs; they are Persian.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:41 pmGenerals gathered in their masses,
just like witches at black masses.
Evil minds that plot destruction,
sorcerers of death’s construction.
In the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning.
Death and hatred to mankind,
poisoning their brainwashed minds.
Politicians hide themselves away.
They only started the war.
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah.
DO you think Ozzy had in mind Kristol, Rumsfeld, Cheney et al
July 16th, 2006 at 6:47 pmwhen he wrote War Pigs?
HONORABLE GAYS IN THE MILITARY VS. HETEROSEXUAL PEDOPHILE RAPISTS
DON’T ASK DON’T TELL DOESN’T WORK!
PINK PANTHERS BLOG!
July 16th, 2006 at 6:49 pmHey, abigman
July 16th, 2006 at 7:06 pmHezbollah and Hamas are Muslim jihadists. There are no Muslim rulers in Lebanon? What do you think they are, secular humanists? Where does this right wing extremist label for them come from? That is definately a first. Iran happens to be Muslim, or didn’t you know that? You didn’t addess any of my points. Saddam is a Ba’athist, which is an Arab version of German Nazism. But he aligned himself with the Jihadists to try and save his sorry ass. An alliance of convenience. And it is good for mankind that he is no longer in business. I suppose you want to bring back the childrens prison and murder and dump more tens of thousands of innocents into mass graves on a regular basis? It is tragic that there is internecine fighting. The Sunnis were Saddam’s priviliged class in power, and now they resent being out of power. Hence their trying to fight back. Saddam was beloved by the Jihadist suicide/homicide bombers because he paid the surviving family $25,000 after they blew themselves up trying to murder innocents, like people in shopping bazaars and pizza parlors and school buses. I guess YOU could make the argument that he was providing a community service to the Muslim Arabs. And just for your edification, I am married to a Jewish woman, although I am not a jew.
Where was Kristol when god was handing out brains?
Kristol needs to go to Iraq and Lebanon and do some REAL reporting. It’s easy for him to sit in his air conditioned room supporting more war and more war while someone else puts their life on the line fighting these wars.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:32 pmWow, rightwing broadside
The follower of the faith is called a Moslem; Islam is the religion of the faithful, you Moron. A Moslem can be from many countries including the Philippines. They are not Arabs but Moslems. And furthermore, although no fan of Sadaam, Bush 1 and Rummy had no problems in dealing with him. And Hezbollah and Hamas are right wing extremists. They believe in the destruction of a country and subjugation of its people. You want to call that Liberal? And Israel has been killing Palestinians for decades ever heard of the King David Hotel and the Haganah, and the Mossad. By the way I would have not had a problem if we had the Mossad kill Sadaam. But Sadaam was a secular Sunni, non-religious Arab. And my point was that the Shia in Iran are not now or have ever been Arabs. They are Persian.
And Sadaam sticking it to Israel by paying suicide bombers is par for his course. He was and is a brutal dictator. Sadaam fought against Iran for eight years and cost millions of lives. The Iranians threw waves of un-armed soldiers into the teeth of Sadaam war machine. And all Sadaam could get, after using poison gas, was a truce. Now my point is we cannot afford to go to war against the entire Middle East. There are 1.5 billion Moslems in the world, and you want to pick a fight with them WHY?
And lastly we have opened up Sadaam’s rape rooms under new management. What a great plan; use Sadaams horrible prison to conduct our own torture. We took out a guy the Iranians detested.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:33 pm#3 – isn’t a constant state of war also referred to as Carthegean Peace? And where is the great warring country of Carthage now?
July 16th, 2006 at 7:35 pmbroadside,
Military action in the middle east has proven only to beget more military action. If you truly wanted peace for Israel, you would have criticized the endless sabotaging of moderate elements in Palestine that has transpired over the years. No country’s people wishes to be dictated to by outside forces, so of course the extremists attract followers. Why can’t Israel supporters seem to figure out that Israel’s heavy handed approach creates more terrorists than any fanatic muslim ever could? And by the way, Israel’s actions foster resentment the whole world over – when will you get that just perhaps, Israel might gain support if it treated their neighbors less arrogantly.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:45 pmAt the end Kristol played the 9/11 card and even Williams was nodding in agreement that it pretty much trumped anything Juan said.
If those on the left (supposedly) let them play this ace in the hole in every debate they will forever get away with their criminally idealogical behavior. Although, for a brief second it was priceless to see that dumbstruck look on Kristol’s face before he remembered to play the card up his sleeve.
At every turn the left has to remind everyone that Republicans were in charge before 9/11, they did nothing to prevent it, and they’ve made a royal mess of things since. Only Wes Clark was prepared to make Bush run in 2004 from September 10th, the only possible winning strategy the Dems could have implemented.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:51 pmRW religious conservatives want war because 1) It generates more profits for their corporatists who then fund the GOP with this blood money and; 2) The rapturists believe that you have to kill everybody for Jesus to come back.
Contrast that to normal people who don’t want war unless it’s a last resort to defend yourself.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:52 pmHey Abig
July 16th, 2006 at 8:00 pmThe name of their religion is Islam, stupid. Adherents are Muslim Or Moslem. And they are all over the world. And militant Islam has declared war on the rest of the non-Muslim world. The Phillipines, Bali, UK, Spain, India, all over. I think we should engage them and kill them where we find them, or they will surely kill us. And that includes the communists. Maybe you think that because you hate George Bush and the American government then that would save you from being beheaded like the rest of us unbelievers? What is there to discuss? Do you want to live under Shariya? Only you could say that we re-opened the rape rooms. How disgusting. And making prisoners wear women’s panties on their head or telling them that other prisoners said they were gay; you would call that torture? We provide prayer rugs, “culturally appropriate meals,” etc. for terrorists, Jihadists and others who flock to Iraq to kill Americans and innocent Iraqis. You see the world as liberal-conservative (as you define them) and think that Islamist Hezbollah and Hamas as conservative. I think you missed the last helicopter out of the 1960’s. Or you need to adjust your meds.
Broadside, I suppose we provided “culuturally appropriate” attack dogs, rapes and beatings as well? You think everything we do in this war is right and justified. The means you are advocating, “killing them where we find them”, couldn’t be more antithetical to the principles on which this country was founded. You should think about what it means to be an American.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:10 pmThe mere existence of the state of Israel creates resentment among the Jihadists, moderate Muslims and the Left. Israel has pulled out of the so-called disputed lands and the Muslim rulers (this is what they are, like it or not) would not go to work to make life better for the inhabitants. They will never do this. Maybe you or your leftist buds could tell the world why. Why waste time and money lobbing unguided missiles into Israel? And while you’re at it, tell the rest of us how George Bush was behind the 9-11 attacks on the US, the Bali hotel bombing, the London transit bombings, the Kobar Towers in Africa, the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the recent India transit bombings and all the rest. On the Fox News program, J. Williams’ remark was so brain-dead even Kristol was speechless. Again…tell me what there is to discuss with Hezbollah and Hamas after we have talked for years in the Oslo “Accords?” When they just want you dead, WHAT IS THERE TO DISCUSS?
July 16th, 2006 at 8:19 pmyou’re right, broadside.
i guess you need to enlist so you can go kill them.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:30 pmBrodaside,
July 16th, 2006 at 8:32 pmYou make it sound as if Israel has been an innocent player in all of this. In fact, Israel has consistently sabotaged the moderate voices that could have affected change all around it. And why has Israel done this? An Arab might guess it was part of a longterm strategy to grab more land. There are plenty of fanatical Zionists living in the West Bank and previously in Gaza – and the Israeli government has been all too happy over the past twenty years to let them hope for their Biblical fantasies of controlling the entire area. So dont pretend that Arab government’s are the only one’s that don’t have their people’s best interests at stake.
In 2003, King Mohamed VI, of Morocco, warned that a US invasion of Iraq would open the gates of Hell. This is exactly what the Illegitimate US Regime wants.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:36 pmGrat article from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,,1822143,00.html
The west must recognise that Israel’s agenda is in conflict with its own
The Olmert government, Hizbullah and Hamas are tacitly united in rejection of any moves towards a compromise peace
David Clark
July 16th, 2006 at 8:39 pmMonday July 17, 2006
The Guardian
j_
July 16th, 2006 at 8:41 pmWhen there are bad things done by our soldiers, like at the prison, we investigate, condemn and prosecute for this behavior. The dogs were held back in a threatening manner, not set upon the prisoners. The main difference is, it is not policy. And you are right about how the world has changed in 220 years or so. As I said in a previous post, the Militant Muslims have declared war on us. They always say this. So how to respond? Many of us say “kill them where we find them.” this is appropriate response to those who live to destroy you. Again, tell me-should we stand down from the Global War On Terrorism? Does it make you warm and fuzzy all over when Americans and other innocents are killed in attacks? Or do you have so much hatred for George Bush(I dislike some of his ideas and policies) that you think this is his war? Do you so hate the American government that you will root for the bad guys? I am pro-American. If the French government, who was bought out in the so-called Iraqi Oil-For-Food program, is opposed to our policies to protect American lives, then screw them. The only people we can rely upon to protect our interests and lives are us. Not Russia. Not the U.N. We will sometimes ally ourselves with other nations when our mutual interests intersect. We allied ourselves with the bloodiest tyrant (J. Stalin) in the history of the world(well, maybe Mao could claim that honor) to defeat a more aggressive enemy-Hitler. I guess the question is, do you support the American efforts to fight back against the Islamo-Fascists, who have declared war on us?
The Palestinians want peace. The Israelis want peace. Americans want peace. Iraqis want peace. We all friggin want peace.
It’s the morons in charge, and the mindless who follow them, with the personality disorders. The policy currently being enacted in the MidEast is “whoever kills all the others first wins.”
And yeah, Bush is playing the same game in Iraq: Victory = every single enemy combatant/terrorist/insurgent dead.
O God, I feel a Vietnam analogy coming on…
July 16th, 2006 at 8:44 pmKristol needs to see this movie: http://www.thewartapes.com/screenings/
July 16th, 2006 at 8:53 pmOh and btw, broadside:
. No. I don’t. Not these efforts, which are making the problem worse. We need smarter people making better decisions. Bush is dangerous. His adminsitration is dangerous. Just because they’re the “American Government” doesn’t mean they’re automatically right, like too many autamaton supporters believe.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:55 pmbroadside (narrowmind),
most soldiers prosecuted for offenses in iraq have gotten extremely light sentences compared to if they had been tried in a civilian court.
if torture wasn’t a policy the administration wouldn’t have had any opposition to the anti-torture bill. there would have been no reason.
militant muslims like us “fighting them over there” — it helps them recruit, it weakens our ability to respond to other threats. like now.
“Global War on Terrorism”? where have you been? didn’t you know the new cool trendy term for it is “World War III”? man am i excited! this war just keeps getting better!
Does it make you warm and fuzzy all over when non-Americans and other innocents are killed in attacks?
does dislike of american government policies equate to hate? does dislike of the american government automatically require “rooting for the bad guys”?
pro-american?… you mean you’re a nationalist? being american means we’re supposed to ignore and deny the bad or illegal things our government does? as an american living in another country, i can tell you firsthand that our government is harming our image.
the oil for food program did allow some to greatly profit — american corporations, for instance. that’s why that story went away so fast.
We allied ourselves with the bloodiest tyrant (S Hussein) in the history of the middle east (well, maybe Osama could claim that honor) to defeat a less aggressive enemy-the shah of iran. we then went on to help iran get weapons also.
I guess the question is, are you at all capable of seeing things any other way than just black or white?
July 16th, 2006 at 9:12 pmI’ve seen Juan Williams get is hackles up the last few weeks against the Fox idiocy. Bye Bye Juan, you will do well getting away from the freaks over there.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:13 pmI see. So the main enemy is George Bush, then. I’s still waiting for the leftists to make a coherent statement as to what American response should be to the Islamo-Fascists war on us should be. The Jews living in what was Trans-Jordan (the Romans made up the name of Palestine, in honor of the Philistines, to discount the Jews) called themselves Palistinians. There was a Palestinian Philharmonic Orchestra 80 years ago made up of Jewish musicians.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:15 pmI have made the point 3 times that, after the Israelis left the areas that they had settled after defeating a combined Arab attack, that instead of trying to build an economy and make things better for their people, they chose to send unguided missiles into Israel. The ruling elite of the people you call “Palestinians” do not want peace, as we define it. They want all the Jews dead, Israel destroyed. Then they would still be resentful of Americans. I have no particular ties to Israel, but they are the only modern democracy in the area not ruled by bloodthirsty lunatics. They are a tiny country surrounded by forces that work 24/7 for their destruction. By the way, the bombing of the Kind David Hotel was done to fight the colonizing British, whose military HQ was there. And, they called it in ahead of time so people could get out. The Jihadists target innocents as a practice. Why would you or any of your friends side with them? Just curious.
broadside;
You have been duped into thinking that Iraq has something to do with the so called war on terrorism. Bush threw a wrench into the war on terrorism when we pulled resources from Afghanistan and made Iraq the nnew priority. How is this debacle in Iraq helping us win this war on terror? Face it, there is no war on terror – Cheney had his sights on Iraq the day they took office – this has been documented.
As for torture not beiong policy, you are just plain wrong and uninformed. Why has the administration made it so difficult to conduct investigations and pass resolutions prohibiting torture? From the start they wanted this option and if you dont believe it – read more about the general who oversaw Abu Grhaib, Janis Karpinski. You are simply in denial about what the government is doing.
Basically, in answer to your question, do i support the war on terror, I would have to say that the war terror doesnt exist so there is nothing to support. Besides, how do you conduct war against a tactic? One could argue that we won the American Revolution based on terror type tactics. So, this whole argument is nonsense – there is no such thing as a war on terror. This is a war for oil, Israel, military profiteering, and American religious fanaticism, that is all.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:19 pmSmackdown: GOP Journalist Called Warmonger…
Fox’s Juan Williams to GOP Weekly Standard Bill Kristol on nationwide Fox News Sunday broadcast:……
July 16th, 2006 at 9:28 pmI’s still waiting for the leftists to make a coherent statement as to what American response should be to the Islamo-Fascists war on us should be.
how about finish afghanistan, capture or kill osama, and fortify america? that sure sounded like a good idea 5 years ago. too bad some incompetent fools with no military experience hijacked our foreign policy and got us started building the oil empire.
you’s really are a singleminded partisan. the problem is, you don’t want war on just “islamo-fascists”, you want war on everyone you don’t like or agree with. the far right have been undermining america since wwii by vilifying their own countrymen. now “liberals” and “leftists” are as good as terrorist-lovers
your attitude weakens america by dividing it and perpetuating a culture war.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:32 pmdear broadside,
enjoyed you post.
About your talking points (old and tired) re Dems as the party of of ……………………………………………..Funny, there are more Dems than Repub by 37@ to 33% according to Rasmussen, a Right leaning polling site.
You are saying that there are more crazy than sane Americans. That sounds like a Jihadist statement. During time of war you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy by your anti-American comments.
Go over to your Jihadist anti-American bashing web sites to place you anti-American screeds.
Americans, love them or leave them! God bless Americans!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 10:16 pmHey, we decided to lend a hand to Saddam (using satellite intel and such) in his stupid 80’s war against Iran when it looked like his forces might get overrun by the counterattacking Iranians, who would send their wounded and children, arms linked, marching across minefields to clear them. At the time, we harbored more animus against the Iranians, I guess. The Shah was overthrown in 1979 when Jimmy C threw him overboard. See how that gesture got us good will with the Islamists. Living in another country gives you a good view of how the Socialist/politically correct Euros and others resent us for being so successful. In the aftermath of WWII the Greek communists, in their attemped takeover, shipped off thousands of captured children to the Soviet Union to be re-educated as good little communists, never to return. I guess they and their political soulmates would resent us. And for some reason there is huge resentment from the rest of the world because we have relatively low tax rates.There is also a huge upsurge in Jew-hatred in the rest of the world, particularly Europe. What I am saying is that I am not overly concerned that they may resent us. If the political elites of France or Russia resent and hate us (and many of them are consumed with it) I look upon it as a badge of honor. It’s really easy to see how fascism gained a foothold.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:17 pmKnowing Faux News, he’ll be fired by tomorrow.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:30 pmFirst, we, as Americans, are incapable of fighting a war against domestic enemies. There are many reasons for this. Because of our tradition of loving freedom, apathy, leftists hating their own elected officials more than the IF’s. We are not willing to do the things (enacting more extreme laws allowing the government to indentify and go after terrorists and their funding sources) to allow this. So, the option for withdrawing from the world and building FortressAmerica is not possible. As long as I have been alive, more people have been registered Dems (I used to be one) than Republicans. One reason for this is the aftermath of the Civil War. Republicans (the party of Lincoln) were resented in the South, so they became Dems. More Senate Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and Dems. AlGore’s daddy was agin’ it. Another reason is that the Dems’ policies of more welfare, higher taxes to redistribute wealth and racial division and pandering creates a readymade constituancy. Not to mention the Left’s Long March through the Institutions, mainly the University/College level. But that’s another story. The point is, your idea that more people are registered Dem makes everyone else Anti-American is lunacy. The Left has no ideas, no vision, other than anti-Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice. You people will never understand this. Raw hatred is not a valid political platform. The Democrat party I knew actually had big ideas, but those people are dead and the party has been hijacked. Without the leftist hatred there is nothing…
July 16th, 2006 at 10:37 pm“lend a hand”!!!
that is hilarious. you have your own version of reality for everything. we also decided to send him anthrax. and dengue virus. and the plague. and helicopters. and tanks, via egypt.
we’ve been through this all before, and when i provided the proof you asked for, you ran away like a little scared elf princess.
your outrage is selective and convenient. then, we could help him. now, it’s the moral and correct thing to overthrow him. make up your tiny mind.
and just fyi, i don’t happen to meet any “political elites” from france or russia. most people i meet are normal australians and british who are pissed off because we’re screwing things up, bigtime.
you really do live in a sheltered world, where what you don’t want to believe is filtered right out. reality is going to come crashing down on you one day very soon… probably sometime in november.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:47 pmyou live in a fantasy world. your last post is recycled talking points.
has it ever occurred to you that the reason republicans keep repeating that “no ideas” canard is because they don’t have any ideas themselves?
you obviously have a history of partisanship. you admit it in your post above. i, on the other hand, have never been registered member of any party. i tend to vote for balance of power. the republicans are going down in november. you can put your hands over your ears and scream “no ideas, no ideas, no ideas” all you want, but prepare to be disappointed.
i’m glad i’m not an ignorant partisan that hates my own countrymen because they have a different opinion than me. that’s just imbecilic nonsense and it weakens america.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:56 pmHardliners of the Reichwing are all cowards, liars, and crooks who have never served in the military or battle but think that starting wars will provide the profiteering for their military industrial complex.
When you are full of their shit and see through their madness…
Vote Democrat and help take this country back from the insane and corrupt Reichwingnuts.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:04 pmbroadside,
Way to go!! I have been reading your posts with admiration for your patient take down of the quislings here, who were having a field day of thought free invective and reflexive hate filled rhetoric before you took them on. Anyone objectively evaluating the arguments made in this exchange would conclude that the majority of the anti-Kristol folks here know nothing about history, and think that everything happening in the world in a reaction to US actions. Heres a clue for you all – just because someone can be put into the victim category does not make them right. They don’t need you to save them. In fact, it would really help if you realized that the terrorists are psychotics.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:06 pmjust because someone can be put into the victim category does not make them right.
no, it just makes them the right-wing. the far right wing are afraid of everything. fear rules your lives. the terrorists, gays, flag-burning, immigration…the far right-wing position on all of these issues is guided by fear.
everytime you hear someone exclaim that “somebody” wants to “destroy america”, that’s fear. it takes a lot more valor to stop violence than to start it. choosing to attack rather than to understand (and strongly defend) is a fear-based decision from fear-based victim exploiters.
this administration is trying to make victims out of the whole of america. looks like they’ve already succeeded with formerlefty and broadside.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:16 pmHow interesting to read that, because I believe we should hunt down the Jihadists that are out there working for our death and destruction by plotting terrorist acts, that I want to kill people with whom I disagree. Just scroll up to read leftist threats and advocating the arrest and murder of Fox News employees or Senators and assorted government officials. So like the recordings of broadcasts taken from the 70’s and 80’s of Radio Moscow and Radio Pyonyang accusing the Americans of being “gangsters” and of doing all sorts of dastardly deeds, things that the communists, in fact, did. Oh, and the GWOT is not a zero-sum game. We can simultaneously uproot and disrupt the Taliban and their training camps in Afghanistan AND expand the search for OBL and take out the Ba’athist regime in Iraq. Just like cutting taxes doesn’t mean there will be less money taken by the government overall. The economy is not a static model. I know this may be painful for most of you to hear, but letting productive citizens keep more of their money expands the economy and creates more opportunity and jobs. But the sense of what I’m reading here is that there is no threat from Militant Islam, therefore the War On Terrorism is a fantasy of George Bush and the “Neocons” (read: Jews) and for oil or diamonds or jade or something. Like we couldn’t have had all the oil we wanted from Kuwait after liberating it. The left also made the oil argument during the Vietnam War. Brilliant.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:16 pmRather than directing your anger at Kristol and just shaking your head in frustration, you should contact the news media which give this man and his fellow neo-cons a platform to spout their murderous ideology and demand that they take all of them off the air, and keep them out of print. Recent culprits include FOX and the Financial Times.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:18 pmbroadside’s version of “history” says we “lent a hand” to saddam. that’s right — donald rumsfeld’s hand. and a little anthrax. some nice other virii, retrovirii, bacteria, and so on.
you should check it out…
July 16th, 2006 at 11:19 pmI dont know much but Williams should not stop just there. He should have smacked that nervous smiling face of Kristol and infuse Kristol with the ultimate fear for white men: angry black men.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:23 pmformerLefty and broadside,
You got it right. Many of the posts on this board are written by those who don’t understand the current situation and the history that is involved. This has nothing to do with the United States’ stance on anything. This is a religous war that has been going on for centuries. We are just witnessing yet another chapter. Do these people truly believe that Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are the victims? It’s just plain ignorance. Maybe these bloggers should get out of the city more often and actually talk to the people of this fine country to understand that they hold the minority opinion.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:27 pmWar gets us losses. US is bankrupt ,as one UK economist postulates. War needs money and DRAFT- are Jena Bush and peers ready to march mined Lebenon??
July 16th, 2006 at 11:28 pmKristol is a coward- asking people to die for his misdirected cause.
Broadside, Are you a Christian?
July 16th, 2006 at 11:28 pmSo like the recordings of broadcasts taken from the 70’s and 80’s of Radio Moscow and Radio Pyonyang accusing the Americans of being “gangsters†and of doing all sorts of dastardly deeds, things that the communists, in fact, did
Comment by broadside
You asked for it, buddy (sorry other posters):
SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.
ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.
CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners’ strike.
HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d’Alene mining region.
OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914.
HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA 1907 Troops “Dollar Diplomacy” protectorate set up.
HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners’ strike by Army.
MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I 1917-18 naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.
RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks
PANAMA 1918-20 Troops “Police duty” during unrest after elections.
HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.
CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.
HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov’t nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal’s return.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; “carpet-bombs” countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov’t.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994-? Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be “terrorist” nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998-? Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime. Forces also engaged in neighboring Pakistan.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002 Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Muslim Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into US combat missions in Sulu Archipelago next to Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Second Gulf War launched for “regime change” in Baghdad. US, joined by UK and Australia, attacks from Kuwait, other Gulf states, and European and US bases.
US gangsters? NO. Murderous State. Read some history.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:29 pmI’m gglad Juan Williams said what he said. It’s about time. He has been such a bend over for FAUX NEWS, and especially for Brit Hume, for so, so long. Nice to see him find his moral compass. He’ll lose it again soon, sadly.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:31 pmboy you Republicans are nothing but eunuchs! Wailing all the time about “Why won’t the Democrats tell us what to do?”. You have control of the U.S. Supreme Court, the Presidency, the house of Representatives and the Senate. The whole friggin enchilada is yours and you don’t know what to do?! You’re friggin IMPOTENT!! You don’t even know what it means to be middle class , fools. Among other things it means having a decent pay scale across America,not just a select few, so your wife doesn’t have to work and can take care of the kids, it means having disposable income, free to spend it on a vacation, college for the kids, etc. It means public education beyond the sixth grade so your kids won’t be like Jethro bodine of the beverly hillbillies, educated only to the sixth grade as was the law before FDR, a democrat president in the 1930’s to 1940’s and who was president during WW2, passed the “New Deal” allowing these NATIONAL programs that gave rise to the american middle class. He passed the 1938 labor law act which outlawed working 16 hour days,afforded overtime protection after 40 hours, etc. It is these things that the Conservative party, the Republicans, are voting to away with. Who is it that is voting to allow outsourcing of jobs? It ain’t Dems fool. Who is giving away American ports to the Arab states with ties to the terrorists? It ain’t the dems fool.Who is it that passes a tax bill that reduces the taxes on the wealthy and has stated PUBLICLY that they intend to reduce or eliminate social programs (social security, public education, medicare, medicaid,etc.). It ain’t the dems fool!!! You voted for this president, you tell him what to do!!!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:34 pmSorry guys,
Have to check out. Since I hang around right-wing blogs I am unused to the level of invective and pathology here. Let’s see — just in the last ten minutes we have one of the esteemed posters here recommending physical violence against Bill Kristol and playing to a racist steereotype, another advocating that FOX News censor itself, since it is the only news organization that at least tries to present the governments thinking for consideration by the American people who voted for it, and another who thinks that disagreeing with the left about foreign policy means you are automatically a nazi.
Way to go. That sure convinces me you guys are right!!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:35 pmbroadside,
You’re partially correct: “Raw hatred is not a valid political platform.”
That is unless we’re talking about the repug’s campaign against Clinton, right?
I’ll take his extramarital affairs over this groups greed and stupidity anytime.
Dem’s ideas are rooted in the Constitution. It’s a shame that none of you on the right seem to have either read it, or possess any ideas that don’t violate it.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:37 pmGotta back up my boy Juan! Can’t say I’ve ever seen him give in to his repub commentator even when he’s always outnumberd 3 sometimes 4 to one. Brit hume, Tony snowjob, billy Crystal, they’ve all ganged up on him as far back as I can remember and not once to my memory do i recall him failing to stand for democratic principles. He’s the man!!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:40 pmHey Broadside,
Why don’t you take a break from attacking people who disagree with you…
Go visit Freepers and masterbate to the thought of even more war.
Kiss my ass.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:42 pmCV,
July 16th, 2006 at 11:43 pmI was raised Prebyterian but the current church is self-destructing. Very sad.
Let me say that, as much as I disliked the cokehead Bill Clinton, I could (and did) put aside that stuff and recognize that we are in fact, in a war. Israel has little to do with it. The Jihadists have, I say for the unpteenth time, declared war on us, and we should respond by hunting them down, that’s all. Why is that unreasonable? Being nice to them by expressing hatred of Israel does nothing. They would still cut your head off while you are alive if they get the chance. All of you. Go to Israel and they would like you and want to party. Big difference. By the way, why has Bill Kristol earned your hatred and death wish? He is just a writer and political commentator. Jeez, we put up with all the liberal network newsreaders and opinionists. Thank you Mike and formerLefty.
Is anyone buying what broadside has to offer?
Selective memory, re-spun talking points and…well, pure
bullshit spun from whole brown(shirt) cloth.
A person like this is not capable of really thinking beyond
what they are told (as are many people on the ‘left’).
He’s not really a conservative or anything. He’s just a dummy.
So is anyone else that buys the whole *left*/*right* contrivance.
Hit the snooze button again, maybe we’re dreaming.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:47 pmBy formerlefty!
You will not be missed.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:56 pmWay to go. That sure convinces me you guys are right!!
Comment by formerLefty — July 16, 2006 @ 11:35 pm
Yo can assume a higher moral standard if you want, yet you support murderers. Where does that leave you?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:08 amWe can simultaneously uproot and disrupt the Taliban and their training camps in Afghanistan AND expand the search for OBL and take out the Ba’athist regime in Iraq.
yes, that was the prevailing logic in 2002. that’s not how it’s working in 2006. the taliban are resurgent, obl is still free 5 years after the fact, and the baathists have been replaced by sectarian insurgents and extremists. far from there being no threat from militant islam, there is now a greater threat. the policy has made things worse.
if you love the economy so much, have a read of what a real economist thinks of it.
straw man much?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:10 amformerLefty is your typical wingnut who calls talk radio to say, “I used to be a Democrat until…” In other words, he is your typical chickenhawk who thinks that evolution and global warming are only theories–like gravity–and wants to kill all Mexicans who move north. A racist cowardly lyin.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:11 amMemo to broadside: Kristol IS PNAC. This entire war was his idea. He convinced morons like Dumsfeld and Chickenhawk Cheney it was the way to go and they let the Chimp know when he was on his treadmill, chasing a pellet.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:15 amI think Kristol should be extraordinarily rendered to Syria by the CIA. I think he knows more than he admits and the information could be useful to the security of the country.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:26 amOk, I think I get it. Bill Kristol, a commentator (one of many) is actually responsible for the invasion of Iraq. Even though capturing OBL would be considered a great thing for George Bush from a political standpoint, he is secretly in cahoots and wants OBL to continue his murderous ways. And because some remaining Taliban are trying to retake Afghanistan, that means, What? Oh, and just because a lot of scientists and researchers thought, in the 1970’s, that we were headed for a new glacial period, that we are now to believe Al Gore, who was responsible for creating the internet and said that the book and movie “Love Story” was about him and Tipper, that Americans are responsible for the earth all of a sudden heating up? Attn Moonbats! The earth goes through heating and cooling periods throughout its history. After Leif Erickson discovered Greenland and Vikings established a settlement, the earth went through a cooling period. What kind of cars were they driving back then? The sun probably exerts more influence on the climate than anything else, except for the volcanoes. Boy, you guys really lead with your chins.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:37 amWatching the shots that are being taken here by both sides, I have to laugh. This is the reason why I read blogs all the time, because even if you get two opposite sides shooting jabs at each other, you still find a MUCH more developed opinion than anything you see on the news. Yay to the first democratic medium.
Anyway, as a “bleeding-heart” liberal who never voted for the party that was appointed to the executive, I am nevertheless confused by this debate. Our occupation of Iraq was a primarily bullshit maneuver to raise oil profits, that’s obvious. But the thing is, since our media sources (Faux AND all the others) only present the carnage in the Middle East, clips of crazy militants waving their guns, its hard to glean a cogent picture of what life is like for civilians, warfare aside. I just read an article about Turkish girls being persuaded to auto-terminate as a way of recapturing family honor, and it brought to mind some shit I heard about the Taliban way back, regarding the degradation of women in their societies and the menfolk’s ability to beat the hell out of your spouse/daughter/niece/whatever and have it be considered “morally justified.”
I make no bones about the fact that I am pretty ignorant to the situation over there, aside from our dear media and our dear politicians shifting our focus through well-placed commentary and imagery. But the way I see it, if there’s a government – or national “custom” – that allows for the denial of a certain demographic’s unalienable human rights, then that government, or group, should be removed, right? If you have nations that allow men to shave off a woman’s eye makeup with a razor, then action should be taken to curb that, right?
Maybe we Americans should take out our greedy little hands from a volatile area like the Middle East. But if governments there will allow people to be obliterated in such a fashion, how can we, a government that strives for justice, allow such atrocities to take place?
Again, ignorant rant. Maybe someone could provide some answers.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:41 amWonder if young Joe Kristol will serve his country soon?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:45 ambroadside has a serious case of projection. Cokehead drunk deserter Bush placed in office by his daddy’s bought and paid for SCOTUS, only to fail at everything that America needed, from 9/11 on. failure after failure. Failed the US during Katrina. Failed the US by letting Osama escape. Failed the US by letting Osama successfully attack. and this bullshit about jihadists is just a big lir to keep the Nitwit Bush as high in the polls as he is (what, 29%?). You assholes on the right claim that the heartland supports bush, but only his rank, stinking, ignorant redneck morons still stand up for him. Every real american knows full well what a complete disaster he is. broadside is wrong on the facts (act-free, in fact), wrong on ideas, wrong on American history, and jsut wrong. And complainsts about somebody wanting to smack Bill Kristol as “physical violence” are laughable when compared to the snarling dogs of right-wing radio and blogs, calling for the murder of reporteres, editors and any amreican who disagrees. You people are sick, and deserve no consideration for your insane ravings.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:48 amKristol wasn’t “one of many”, but the leader of a very small group.
Are you really that ignorant broadside?
Maybe you’re just filling your quota of cowardly anonymous right-wing posts, so you can get your check.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:50 amHey Broadside, et al.,
9/11 sucked. We gave W the benefit of the doubt, because we were all scared, going into Afghanistan made perfect sense, hunt down OBL justice prevails…Only, your decider decided to go into Iraq which means while we’re in Iraq he cannot get Afghanistan settled and where is OBL free and clear it seems… so we have no justice.
I think Bush went into Iraq to draw our attention from OBL just in case he couldn;t get him. And let’s face it, Iraq’s a great target, most of W’s buddies think his daddy didn’t finish the job anyway, heck, he followed in his father’s footsteps by becoming president, maybe he could take care of Saddam since his dad couldn’t. What ARE teh odds that a President will have son that will become President??? THEN, what are the odds that the son will invade THE SAME COUNTRY the father did??? We just aren’t in Iraq for the right reasons.
Now, having said that, if W was going to go into IRAQ to take out Saddam and quelch potential terrorism, and install a democratic government, he should’ve doubled the number of troops he sent in. This would’ve insured ‘overwhelming force’ as espoused by Colin Powell. But since this was just fixin’ Dad’s mistake, we don;t need overwhelming force, just enough to topple Saddam… I mean the fact that he’s in power is the only thing needling the Bushes…right?
So GWB screwed up by going into IRAQ on folly, then didn’t send enough troops to do the job quickly so they could come home…so now, our troops have been obn so many rotations through IRAQ, their spread too thin, and we don;t have the manpower to fight everywhere (with our volunteer army). So what we do now, in footbal metaphors, is punt. If that means sit and talk with people we don’t like, then let’s do that. If that means take a different look at how Israel can manage more of it’s own relationships with it’s neighbors without blowing itself or them to smithereens, let’s do that.
The fact is, we are left with few alternatives, because GWB messed up all the first options.
Give it a rest… you’re guy F’d-up royally, and it dissapointed ALL OF US who gave him our trust after 9/11. We need a different course, and this guy cannot do it.
It takes a big man to get involved with all of these very important life and death decisions… it take an even bigger man to admit mistakes and move onto another path.
I for one am tired of being made to live in a constant state of fear. Aren’t you? Is it possible that Fear could make people feel reluctant to vote the incumbent out of power? Is it possible that Fear is being used to manipulate voters?
Just askin’
Peace.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:00 amsorry for all the typos… I typed faaaaast…
July 17th, 2006 at 1:02 amAgain, no ideas. And the sophomoric listing of supposed US transgressions. Fighting the Germans in World War I! Fighting them again in World War II! Marines land in an unstable situation to protect US citizens! Police respond to racist murdering rioters in cities! Must be from a Noam Chomsky or Revolutionary Communist Party Site. Hate Bush. Hate Bill Kristol. Hate Conservatives. Hate hate hate. Advocating violence, death and imprisonment of anyone who disagrees with you. How pathetic.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:08 am#104 broadside: Proof positive you are full of shit. Al Gore didn’t invent the internet and never ever said he did. What he did do is one time in the early 1980’s he saw an example of a network the Air Force used called Arpanet to do basically what we take for granted today with the internet. He thought basically if it were possible to incorporate that technology into the public domain. So he and a few other senators appropriated funding to study and implement the technology that would later become the internet. Invent it, no he did not. Help make it available for all of us, yes, he did. As far as your hapless opinion on global warming, where does all of the millions of tons of car, truck, plant and factory exhaust that is spewed into the air each and every day go? Does it just disappear magically? Once it reaches a certain altitude does it just automatically become inert? When you become educated then you can try to present an argument. Just repeating the same tired old neocon talking points is a joke. If you want to play follow-the-leader blindly, go for it. Not me. I will never blindly follow another person into the abyss.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:09 amSurely you’re kidding!?!? “Is it possible that fear could make people feel reluctant to vote the incumbent out of power? Is it possible that fear is being used to manipulate voters? Are you living in a vacumm somewhere other than this earth. Damn rights……….fear is the primary GOP tool for success!!
July 17th, 2006 at 1:10 amFor any conscum who still support the Iraq war, I invite you to go to wal-mart, buy a gun and as much ammo as you can carry, fly to Iraq and fight this war yourself.
If you haven’t died for this country, you have no business expecting people to treat you as if you have.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:13 amWell they need to make it bad enough to justify the draft right?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:14 am#
Surely you’re kidding!?!? “Is it possible that fear could make people feel reluctant to vote the incumbent out of power? Is it possible that fear is being used to manipulate voters? Are you living in a vacumm somewhere other than this earth. Damn rights……….fear is the primary GOP tool for success!!
Comment by Jack — July 17, 2006 @ 1:10 am
My point exactly… Let’s hope Broadside can figure it out too!
Once he and his ilk finally figure out that they are blindly following out of fear, perhaps they can somehow see again, and get to looking at another way of governing.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:15 am#116 Jeff: Thank you.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:18 amSometimes name-calling is the most appropriate response.
This man has no business in public, and that fox allows it is grotesque. kristol is:
Dickless twit. Brainless liar. Single-celled animal’s brain on drugs. The reason some women should abort. (His father was worse, so his mother should have known.) Zionist earth-destroyer.
I’d like to hammer his teeth with a sledgehammer.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:21 amThe fact that Kristol refers to the idea of the US widening our war as a “great opportunity” is extremely disturbing. If that is in fact the required action it sure as hell is not a “great opportunity. It is a tragedy.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:22 amI suppose it’s a good thing that Juan Williams finally confronted Bill Krisol, but Williams is, was, and always will be a classic television journalist, i.e. a person selected for his convenient scrupples and shallow intellect. I used to think that Williams was simply cynical players; but I’ve since talked to several people who know him personally; and they assure me that he is an authentic idiot.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:28 am#
We have given you ideas. From sitting down and actually TALKING with not just our enemies, but the allies we have alienated, to more diplomacy (yeah that’s talking again) with Israel about proportionate responses, to finding OBL, to settling Afgahnistan, to pumping oil from IRAQ… I mean we invaded right??… Oil was going to pay for the infrustructure we tore down, then rebuilt…right? To working on renewable energy sources over the LAST SIX YEARS so whether or not your global warming theory is any better than Al Gore’s is immaterial, To TALKING (yep, more diplomacy) with Nkorea’s crazy leader (he’s launching missiles on the 4th of July, he’s clearly got a fixation with US – we must have something he wants to bargain with). But you don’t really want ideas, they might lead to resolution, or some sort of peace, which would upset the whole support mechanism created by GWB and Co. to rule by fear…. Who would you follow then?
And let’s not forget hate, hate, hate…. The same hate that spewed like a fountain of venom when Clinton ACTUALLY BEAT Bush 1. You were all so stunned that the people would elect this’waffler’ ‘liberal’, that Rush and his minions went into HYPERDRIVE over every tiny fragment of dust you could to ‘get this guy’…. and yeah, he was a philanderer, and he got a BJ… a personal indescretion, yeah, he failed too, a woman was probably exploited, but at least 2500 troops didn’t die, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s as well (but that’s OK, Saddam killed more than our war did!). The right wrote the rules on how to HATE the opposing political team when Clinton came into office. You are just getting a taste of your own medicine.
You should have just lost graciously back then, and we could have all remained civilized. But you’ll have another chance when Bush 2 is gone, and a Dem. gets elected. Hopefully then you will remember to be aware of the Golden Rule.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:31 am#120 Jim Harrison: Well, I guess that’s why Fox had him talk to Bill Kristol. One “authentic idiot” to another.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:33 amlooks like this thread needs a refresher of the wingnut debating rules, this is how they go, so elegantly demonstrated by narrow-minded broadside here:
1. Never pass up the opportunity to make a purely semantic argument.
something like, oh, i don’t know, “al gore invented the internet” might do. distorting something somebody says to make it appear they might be saying something else, or merely arguing how they said it. as if that’s even relevant now.
2. Ignore, at all costs, the context of any evidence that might support your position. Make sloppy, unsustainable arguments that require your opponents to do your research for you. Then, when they’ve done the research you should have, throw up another unsustainable argument to see if it sticks. Repeat ad nauseum.
the “they were predicting an ice age in the 70’s” is a prime example. thoroughly debunked here.
3. Any uncertainty, no matter how irrelevant or tangential, always debunks the entire body of evidence no matter how voluminous or rigorously reviewed that evidence is.
consider this gem from broadside: “After Leif Erickson discovered Greenland and Vikings established a settlement, the earth went through a cooling period. What kind of cars were they driving back then?”
and that’s seriously a reach. from someone who has yet to explain why we could “lend a hand” to saddam in 1985 (by sending him anthrax, dengue virus, the plague and helicopters), but now we’re supposed to be outraged that he was a brutal dictator.
WHERE WAS THE OUTRAGE IN 1985, YOU COLOSSAL HYPOCRITES? WHERE WAS IT IN 1991 WHEN CHENEY DECIDED AGAINST OVERTHROWING HIM?
selective and convenient outrage that serves the ideology. please quit screwing up my country and my world.
one more thing, bs,
“because some remaining Taliban are trying to retake Afghanistan, that means, What?”
it means rumsfeld is either an idiot or a liar for claiming on 12/18/02:
“The Taliban are gone. The al Qaeda are gone.”
do you want to tell him, or should i?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:44 amyou’ll have another chance when Bush 2 is gone, and a Dem. gets elected
Comment by jeff — July 17, 2006 @ 1:31 am
I’m afraid it’s too late for that. The provincial ignorance of all too many Americans has probably made this certain. The foreign policy of the US, if one can call it that, is the responsibility of the proto-fascists in office. The general ignorance of the population, however, is due to the educational system. And that has largely been the responsibility of the Democrats.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:16 amKristol is an insufferable chickenhawk. He’s so generous when it comes to advocating the spilling of American blood in foreign conflicts that have nothing whatsoever to do with our national security and everything to do with fighting Israel’s wars and war profiteering and looting oil and mineral wealth for his profligate friends.
Kristol is Jewish. He’d have automatic citizenship if he goes to Israel. This coward won’t even fight for his beloved Israel.
The fact is Kristol is not only a chickenhawk but he’s a treasonous chickenhawk. His lies and his New Pearl Harbor has caused great detriment to America and has increased terrorism worldwide. Kristol is a terrorist.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:23 am#109 Jeff – thank you for the thoughtful post. Let me tell you about my journey to Bush and back. Maybe this tale can make sense to some fence-sitters and even make the rabid among us have second thoughts about “us liberals”, as they seem to lump us all.
I was one that was very upset at the 2000 stolen election and protested on the streets. But I may not have gone to the streets if the Republican candidate was tolerable, as I did not protest in past elections when Republicans won. I was against Reagan and Bush I, but I did not think electing them was a threat to America – I believed that they were reasonable enough not to set us too far behind. However, being a Texas resident and seeing little Bush at work as governor, that worried me. A man so shallow, so inexperienced, so pandering, so beholden to special interests would be a bad president. He could cause great harm to our country, and to the world.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:49 amI did not march in the streets to protest his election – I marched to protest the arrogant way the Republicans went about dismissing people’s concerns about voting irregularities. It was like a schoolyard brawl between two teams, when there was a questionable call, the reds wrested the ball from the referee and refused to allow analysis of the play. It was a slap in the face, a your-opinion-is-worthless statement, an accusation of unAmericanism to someone so American. But the biased Supremes finally made their preordained call, and I settled into a resigned state, stopped participating in protests, and thought that his incompetence would get him out in 4 years.
Then came 9/11. I was shocked and apalled like most Americans. I decided to set aside my doubts and back our president in his response. I thought at length about the event and what could have led up to it, and I voiced those thoughts to my representatives and the White House, hoping that they would be listening to constituents in framing a response. My analysis led me to the conclusion that there was no way we could fight this threat with force; that we should pursue OBL on one hand, but deal with the issues that helped him recruit fanatics to his cause. Cut off his supply line – and people are his supplies, because fuel, food, access, and money were impossible to cut off. But even though his initial response was encouraging – the visit to the WTC and his first speech to the nation – I soon began to see some responses that veered from what I thought was the only way to win this.
Little did I know that a plan was already in the works (PNAC), and that the shallow Mr. Bush would follow his most persuasive counselors (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perl, et al). I supported the invasion of Afg wholeheartedly for the purpose of capturing OBL and finally ridding the world of the despicable Taliban regime. Also for the value of standing tall. I loved the response we received from all over the world. I thought this was a great opportunity to overturn the corrupt international order and finally deal with countries ethically based on the values in our Constitution. I was hoping we would finally stop diplomatic doublespeak and start supporting governments that upheld basic human rights and speak plainly about those that did not.
Instead, it became the squandered opportunity of the beginning of the 21st Century. The pursuit of the Iraq conflict was reminiscent of the post-election fight – all the arrogance and accusations of anti-Americanism started flying again. It was deja vu all over again. My way or hit the road. And we got railroaded into this morass called the Iraq war. No WMD, no connection to AQ, the mushroom cloud, and all the lies about the reception we would get, the disregard for the UN weapons inspectors, the vilification of France, the subsequent alienation of most of our allies, Rummy’s dismissal of the post invasion looting, the total incompetence of post-invasion planning, the no-bid contracts, the Jessica Lynch PR blitz. It was already a hornet’s nest to go in, and the war cabal added fire ants. Totally the wrong approach. I saw it coming, I wrote my representatives and the papers, I did what I could as a patriotic American, and I was dissed.
Then came the ugly 2004 election cycle with the stupid primary process, the pussy-footing Democrats, the unabashed exploitation of 9/11 by the Republicans, the swiftboating, and then the further election irregularities.
How depressed this has made me. But I am not an America-hater. I love this, my adopted country, and the freedoms I have here that would have been unimaginable where I was born. I detest the current government for the mess it has created domestically and internationally. We will live under this cloud for generations now. I know that the way I envisioned the GWOT would work. It would not be an instant win, but with goodwill and fairness we would have kept that support from the rest of the world, and by doing good deeds we would win over the hearts of a majority of Muslims. And Muslims control their countries, although not by traditional Western democratic institutions at this point, but still they control them. And all but the most despotic dictators have an ear to the ground. Eventually there would be critical mass and a better world would have come of it. Our grandchildren would look back and perhaps equate us with The Greatest Generation.
Now I read things posted on here that stupidly advocate “hunting them all down and killing them”. You can’t do that. For every one you kill with that attitude, three more spring up. You are not going to eradicate fanatical religious zealots by killing them. And that applies domestically too, for some of you leftwingnuts.
I hope that sensible thinking eventually rises to the top. I look forward to a change in government in the Fall to start the process. I fear that many who frequent this blog will encourage their representatives to use retribution against the imbeciles that started it all back in the 90s. “Do to them what they did to us.” But that is a perversion of the Golden Rule – let’s reconcile this nation, and again by practicing goodwill convince many of the rabid right that moderation is the best way.
Perhaps we can eventually regain our sanity at home and our respect worldwide. It will take a long time to crawl out from this hole, but I choose to be positive and hope for the best. Both sides have some good ideas – let’s find them and save the republic, and set an example for people to aspire to in every land on the planet.
Thank you all for your expressions – deep down we all want the same result, really.
Wake up Americans. Our country is being subverted by the Israel Lobby, AIPAC and the so called neocons. Lavish support annually to Israel. Invade Iraq for the sake of Israeli security (boy, did that backfire!). I do not blame the likes of Kristol as much as I do the weak and greedy politicians who suck up to his “lobby”. I am not anti-semitic or anti-anyone. I am pro-American and very concerned about our country’s future.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:10 amKristol and his ilk should simply be lined up against a wall and killed…after watching their entire families being tortured to death.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:13 amAre any of you hearing yourselves? Kristol is a talking head of which we have too many in this country, liberal and conservative. And bringing in his religion, what does that have to do with it? There are plenty of christians who support the same things Kristol is advocating. What many of you seem to be missing with regards to a war, is that Iraq should not have been the first target, but rather Iran. There is no proof that Iraq funded any Bin-Laden or Hamas or Hezbollah groups. However Iran does, and it is within reach of nuclear weapons, which they would sell to the highest bidder. The left and right extremists do not understand foreign policy, instead they rely on ideological party hacks to formulate policy.
And as much as I severely dislike W and his social and political policies, the activist foreign policy of Just War and cowboyishness is a welcome change from the post-Cold War policies that we had been following through the first and part of seocnd CLinton terms. Foreign policy is extremely difficult to formulate. There is no correct policy nor is there a wrong policy. Realpolitik is the way to go, but sadly neither the right nor left get it, and therein lies the problem. They argue and rant about getting things done, but in the end no policy comes out. That is the problem with US foreign policy.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:13 amHow’s that cup o’ cowboyishness feeling right about now??… Doesn’t quite wash down that Just War we’re all chokin’ on now does it? Maybe we shouldn’t just war premptively.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:22 amWow. I love Juan with his sexy self!! Hmm!
July 17th, 2006 at 3:37 amIn support of Jack at 116: It was no less than Bill Kristol’s father, Irving, who stated the conservative political philosophy behind all this warmongering:
July 17th, 2006 at 3:44 am“Turn the people against their own liberty. Convince them that liberty is licentiousness, that liberty undermines piety, leads to crime, crigs, rampant homosexuality, children out of wedlock … And worst of all, liberalism is soft on communism or terrorist – whatever happens to be the enemy of the moment. And if you can convince the people that liberty undermines their security, then you will not have to take away their liberty; they will gladly give it to you.”
All these wars keep the Republicans in power because the American people are afraid they will have to fight terrorists here if they don’t “fight them over there.”
Oh, and lest we forget: Bush didn’t win two elections. The Supreme Court and then Diebold handed him two elections on a silver platter.
Sorry about the typo. Read “drugs” instead of “crigs.” My bad.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:45 amWhere is this Ned Lamont guy.
He could be ripping Lieberman to shreds over Israel
Instead he’s probably already succumbed to AIPAC and too scared to say anything.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:51 amLook at Kristol at the top of http://www.nowarforisrael.com
Israel’s attack on Lebanon resulted in 9/11:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=55993
July 17th, 2006 at 4:21 amWell, as much as the “struggle” between good and evil would seem comfortable and nice on some other soil than our own, that is not the case. That struggle is very much alive and well, in the red and blue states, here, at home.
The major battle is in the terminology, Biblical and religious words, pompus, selfish, hardcore words. Words which instantly divide and conquer. Words which create thousands of shades of gray. Words which have the power to inflame millions world wide, regardless of the “standard” they march under.
Words which make anyone who has any brush with any religion suddenly an expert on the definitions of each. I am good. You are evil. We are good. They are evil.
A single Mom in New Jersey, has much in common with a single Mom in Syria. Groceries to buy, clothing and shelter to provide. An amputee Marine in Georgia has much in common with an amputee in an Iraqi hospice.
And good and evil with which to contend.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:26 amBS
1: Hezbollah, are a part of Lebanon’s government, and the dominant political faction in the South, now if the Democrats went and kidnapped some Canadian soldiers, who would be in the wrong?
What needs to happen is Lebanon’s ruling party should make a deal with Israel. A very politically convenient one too “We will give you the heads of Hezbollah, and you will agree that the rest of us had nothing to do with these kidnappings. We can’t give you the soldiers, because we don’t know where they are, but we can give you the leaders of our political opposition quite happily.”
This is a case where both sides need to get together, and realise that Hezbollah are playing both of them. Hezbollah wants war, every bombed bridge is a whole horde of people voting in the elections, every damaged airport is a whole horde of votes in the elections, every last member of the victims of Israel’s bombings is going to vote for them. They are doing precisely what Bush did with Iraq, using war as an election strategy.
Israel cannot really be blamed for its response to this situation, and the peace has to come from the other side for a change, but nor can Lebanon be held entirely to blame. In most cases both sides of a conflict are guilty, in this case, it looks like both sides are innocent.
2: America cannot operate as the world police. It does not have the funding to do so, it is in massive debt to one of the least ethical nations in the world as it is (China) and it simply isn’t very good at it. Democracy requires the people within the nation that is going to have it, agreeing to it. It doesn’t work when their is no popular will to form a Republic, when the people are more interested in battling it out in the streets then in the polling stations, and when whoever you get you are going to get someone bad. Iraq’s constitution is based off of Sharia law, which means if you are female and Iraq, you are never going to have equal rights to men. Saddam, say what you like about him, had women serving in his cabinet.
3: The America India nuclear technology deal violates the NPT (Non-Proliferation Treaty) and thus has set the stage for Pakistan, already a country with close ties to America’s enemies, to reciprocate by selling technology to Iran. India and Pakistan hate each other’s guts, so this deal is going to make it much harder to stop Pakistan selling nukes to terrorist organisations and so called rogue states, because by selling that technology to India, America has declared itself to be on India’s side. You don’t break the law for people you don’t like.
That said, the 20/20 hindsight portion of my rant:
Here is what Bush should have done: Finished Afghanistan first and then start preparing for talks with Iran. It should have abided by the NPT, and it should have respected the UN’s decision regarding Iraq. You cannot claim to be championing the UN if your own actions undermine it.
America should have tried diplomacy first, and then gone on to war, but it didn’t. Plan B for Bush is diplomacy, plan A is to see whether he can push a war through. Plan A has lost America a lot of allies, and even when you are as big and powerful as America is, it is good to have allies.
America should also have gone in for environmentalism. Why you ask? Because it would have weakened the funding structures of such individuals as Osama. By cutting back America’s need for oil, by actually funding serious research into alternatives (and not just saying he was) Bush could have changed the way the world’s economy worked. Revolutions cost money, take away the money and you can take away the revolution.
But what did Bush do? He cut funding for alternate fuels research and channelled what was left straight to the oil companies. If my living requires the continued use of a product I have a fair supply of, I am not going to research an alternative all that seriously.
Bush should have channelled his tax cuts into more then “Rich Man pays less” He should have had strings attached to those tax cuts, and even raised taxes in sectors which are hurting America’s interests. He should have increased funding for taking care of war veterans, not decreased it, and after 2004 was a record year for hurricanes, he should have increased funding for FEMA and the maintenance of the NO levies. The fact that he cut that funding was a pure reflection on the fact that he has the sum total intellect of a wet brick.
He should also have hired someone whose career was in disaster management to head FEMA. FEMA is traditionally run by someone who knows what they are doing, not someone whose chief qualification is knowing horses.
He should also have realised that investing in the stock market is not actually something that produces sustainable growth. Think about it logically, a company can only sell shares once, the profit from future share trading goes to the owner of those shares, not the company. The company meanwhile is being run not to increase the profits of the said company, because shareholders honestly don’t buy for dividend anymore, but to increase the value of those shares. It in essence puts a huge burden of unsustainable growth on the company, which will eventually lead that company to bankruptcy as its core business reaches market saturation, and it gets involved in stuff that its directors know nothing about. Growing too fast is a very good way to go broke.
If you want sustainable, long term growth, you invest in the small to medium sized privately own businesses, you increase funding for loans to get them off the ground and you tax earnings on the stockmarket as ordinary income.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:24 am“Some people are just a larger version of their smaller self” ie.William Kristol.
July 17th, 2006 at 7:46 am[...] Elsewhere, arch neo-con Bill Kristol was confronted by Juan Williams on Fox news Sunday: “You Just Want War, War, War, And You Want Us In More War.” Judging from the ferocious comments left at Thinkprogress.org, Williams’s sentiments prevail. « Outsource the White Priest [...]
July 17th, 2006 at 8:10 amWhat went unchallenged is the remark that we are fighting al qaeda in Iraq. What a bunch of b.s. that is. We are CREATING al qaeda in Iraq.
July 17th, 2006 at 8:36 am[...] Â Williams confronts Kristol: “You just want war, war, war, and you want us in more war.” [...]
July 17th, 2006 at 8:46 amMy God, Juan Williams is a wimpy leftist. It was bad enough when he was just a hack; now he’s a hack who wants us to kiss terrorist ass!
July 17th, 2006 at 8:54 am141. That sure is a funny comment, just as funny as Americans’s getting killed nearly everday in Iraq.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:10 am#137. THANK YOU for the enlightenment.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:42 amThe Neocons are history since the Iraq debacle. The administration can no longer rely on their advice. Start thinking about the oil cartels being behind “war, war, war, war”. See how the price of oil is climbing regularly with the Israel, Hezbollah conflict. Just imagine how much more the price of oil would climb with a nice war with Syria and Iraq. Think how much more oil they would control with the present government of Iran defeated and a friendly entity installed. Blame “oil, oil, oil for war, war, war”.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:51 amSend the neocons and their blowhard chickenhawk supporters to the Middle East, preferably on foot patrol in the worst neighborhoods, and see how long their murderous schtick lasts.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:51 amKristol is a pampered privileged elitist who dissembles as he watches his New American Century meet the realities of the world he does not inhabit. Juan Williams has been rolling over for conservatives since his NPR days if not longer. It takes a lot of rationalization to defend the neo-con movement, the Bush Doctrine and what they have done to an imperfectly good democracy. Now we are confronted with the challenge of how to deal with the authoritarian hardline pseudodemocracy. The 2000 election intrduced the gelatinous revolution.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:54 am#38 FCC dominated by Republicans (even though it is supposed to be bipartisan), the “Fairness Doctrine” abolished by Reagan. We have to oust the loonies from the House and Senate this year to reclaim our airwaves, for a start.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:03 amWHAT IS THE PRICE FOR YOUR CHILD’S LIFE?
No, seriously, how much would you charge me to let me kill your kid? I’ll make up a whole batch of comfortable lies about it so you can assuage your guilt when your kid comes home in a cheap box with a cheaper flag draped over it, but, c’mon, let’s talk money here. How much? No? Ummm, okay, how much will you charge me to let someone else’s kids get killed? Better deal, huh? You don’t have to know them, & I’ll try to make sure you don’t have to see them.
I know the above sounds absurd, but this deal has indeed been made. In exchange for money, a certain group of people have agreed to let your kids be killed. That group is the US Congress. And for the last several years, many of them have been accepting money from AIPAC, a supposed lobbying group that stands exposed as a spy operation for a foreign govt, in order to promote that foreign govt’s agenda, which includes war in the Mideast, waged against that foreign govt’s enemies.
This selling of America’s children to a foreign govt to be that govt’s mercenaries has to rank as the greatest single betrayal of a people by their govt in all of history. So, let is take it one step at a time.
First off, let us follow the money. There is no question that US Congressmen have been accepting money from pro-Israel lobbyists, AIPAC chief among them. This is beyond doubt, as even the Congressional financial disclosure records record the amounts given & accepted.
There is no doubt that AIPAC exerts control over the US Govt. Indeed back in 1992, the then-head of AIPAC, David Steiner, boasted that he had influence over who would be the next Sec of State, & had already “cut a deal” with Baker for more aid to Israel. When the scandal became public, Steiner was forced to resign.
Despite this scandal, & despite the fact that the current AIPAC spy investigation has been going on for more than two years, US Reps & Senators continued to accept money from an org they knew was under investigation for espionage against the US.
How does that money influence the US Govt? Let us look at what Israel wants. … http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/priceofyourchild.html
July 17th, 2006 at 10:16 amDrafting the neo-cons may be more of the likely answer than some of these bloggers realized. At the rate we are being sucked into WWIII , the US may find itself in a larger shooting war and a draft before we can get rid of Bush.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:28 amBuck wild…
The news out of Lebanon and Israel just gets crazier this morning….
July 17th, 2006 at 10:41 amWhat’s Juan Williams, some kind of anti-Semite? Hasn’t he ever heard of the Holocaust? DOn’t you want to die for ISrael, Mr. Williams?
July 17th, 2006 at 10:43 amKristol is right. You can’t deal or negotiate with terrorists. Somebody should bomb Syria.
All we are saying….. is give war a chance.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:47 amDestroy Heezbollah and Damascas….. don’t act like France.
Why is this lying warmonger allowed to speak on the so-called “mainstream” media?
Because they are owned and operated by lying warmongers. Why else would they
allow this filth to spew his venemous garbage 24/7.
I don’t believe a SINGLE word of any MSM “news” broadcasts. Get the news from a variety of sources, Internet, satellite, etc. then come to your own conclusions.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:53 amFunny how anytime that evil scumbag Kristol is confronted directly about his PNAC activities he never has anything to say. Of all people, Stephen Colbert recently caught him flatfooted the same way.
July 17th, 2006 at 11:15 amOh man, I’m probably gonna’ take it in the neck for this one…and remember, I really am proudly liberal/progressive or whatever appellation you care to put on it. I’m an atheist lapsed Jew from the orthodox persuasion and far more interested in the US than Israel. That said…
1) Yes, Bill Kristol, one of the architects of PNAC, is a chickenhawk warmonger.
2) However, Israel has a right to defend itself. (I find it odd that everyone loves the Jews when they just roll over & die, but condemn them when they defend themselves.)
Yassir Arafat got 90% of what he was looking for in the Stockholm accords, took the Nobel Peace prize and then started the infatada.
Israel agreed to, and did, pull Israelis out of the West Bank settlements and returned the land to Palestinian control as part of the road to peace.
The Palestinians voted in a peace minded prime minister and Hamas at the same time as the majority party. Then they say they want peace and then suicide bombings and kidnaappings occur.
If Hezballah & HAmas are operating out of southern Lebanon, then I see no difference between the Israleis hitting targets in that region and our going into Afghanistan to go after Al Qaida and the Taliban-which we by and large agree was a good idea. Where we part company form guys like Bush and Kristol is diverting resources to Iraq. Just as diverting resources to expand the war into Iran seems to be contraindicated.
A note to Mighty Kali-please don’t write in agreement of any of these statements. I’m probably in enoiugh trouble as it is.
July 17th, 2006 at 11:27 amI’s still waiting for the to make a coherent statement as to what American response should be to the Islamo-Fascists war on us should be.
Please post the war-declaration from the “. Please follow that up with the legal war declaration from Congress.
Thanks!
July 17th, 2006 at 12:09 pmthe neo-con,are all FASCISTIS ,pigs hawks
July 17th, 2006 at 12:18 pmPLEASE! C’mon. William Kristol is 100% for Israel… and 100% for using American
treasury and soldiers to do Israel’s bidding –to “secure the realm” as Paul Wolfowitz
and Richard Perle call it.
This has been the neo-conservative Jewish aim for decades. They even have
writting published papers on this issue.
We’re supposed to sit around and pretend that Kristol is anything other than a shill
for Israeli policy intending to use U.S. money and soldiers to provide greater security for Israel. You’d have to be a retard to believe that Kristol cares a whit about the U.S.
In fact, he’s clearly willing to abuse the U.S. (despite his finely tuned rhetoric –ALWAYS EQUATING ISRAEL AND THE U.S. as if the interests are the same)… by allowing our soldiers to die for his cause.
He’s a horrible fraud.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:22 pmBill Kristol and other PNAC (Project for A New American Century) dominionists work hand-in-hand with a Neo-Capitalist ideology that’s driven by wars and more wars and more wars and more wars to satisfy the petro and weapons industries at the cost of lives and dollars to innocent and, often, gullible citizens. The Bush administration, including Congress, bow to the global Petro/War/$$$ Gods and the rest of us yield our childrens’ and this nation’s future to their extremist game plan. Kristol is only a symbolic figure of the larger pathology.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:25 pmWay to go Juan!!! Kristol is a neo-con chickenhawk always willing to spill blood. Never any talk of conciliation or that maybe there is another way to solve problems. Iraq and now this Israeli-Palestian thing is demonstrating that war begets war. There is a need for a paradigm shift in diplomacy. We need a Henry Kissinger not a Condi Rice.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:50 pmThe Neo-Cons’ plan is clearly revealed in the recently released on DVD documentary “Why We Fight”. President Eisenhower’s televised farewell address to the nation warned Americans to beware “The Military-Industrial-Congressional(last word deleleted from Ike’s spoken speech)Complex. Be sure to watch all the special features. Ike spent 8-years as president fighting America’s coporate war mongering cabal for precious dollars for schools, hospitals, roads, ect.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:53 pmMost of you are illiterate rednecks who do not even know the Definition of NEO-CON but accept the common use to mean Jewish or “Zionist “.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:15 pmRupert Murdoch explained at a Museum of Jewish Heritage dinner at the Waldorf-Astoria that, “I have always believed in the future of Israel and the goals of the international Jewish community”.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:16 pmSumner Redstone (AKA Murray Rothstein) controls CBS, Jeff Zucker controls NBC with Neil Shapiro, David Westin is president of ABC News, Michael Eisner is major owner of Walt Disney, Capitol Cities, ABC. This list goes on and on, so when the question comes up – do Jews control the media? You bet they do! Do a little research, and you’ll see for yourself! Now do you understand why all the politicians, including the President are scared to death of them?
Most of you are illiterate rednecks (judging by your generouse use of profanity and constant mis-spelled words) who do not know the definiation of “NEO-CON” but have accepted the common use to mean “Jewish or Zionist” shame on all of you
July 17th, 2006 at 1:19 pmWilliam Kristol. Chickenshit chickenhawk. So pleased that 20,000 Americans have been killed or maimed so that he can pontificate in safety.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:19 pmThis douchebag has tarnished my good name.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:24 pmBest commentary I have seen today!
Monday, July 17, 2006
SIXTY YEARS TOO LATE
WOULD-A, COULD-A, SHOULD-A
By: Resa LaRu Kirkland
“As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence.
“Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united….I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.
“The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel…to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.
“The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear — to wipe Israel off the map.‖ Jewish Virtual Library
The above statements look like they could have been said in the last 48 hours. They sound exactly like what we’ve been hearing—and from the same nations—on FOX and CNN. Only problem is they were said back in May, 1967—that’s 40 years ago. Immediately after this wretched Islamic posturing, Israel wiped the floor with the “whole Arab nation,†pummeling them in only six days and bitch-slapping them back to hell. Right won the day.
What a difference a few decades make; in this case, none whatsoever.
Once again, Islam sees this as an opportunity to “rectify†the “error†that is Israel, and once again, their goal is clear—to wipe Israel off the map. They’ve said it repeatedly, they’ve meant it totally, and they’re committed to it eternally. Never have they kept a treaty, cease fire, agreement, or pact. Not once, not ever. They’ve never changed their position or tactics, but due to being allowed to keep going, they have now gained in technology. Israel, on the other hand, has kept every single promise they’ve ever made with people who won’t even recognize their right to live and breath. Every single one.
You’ve gotta hand it to the little sand devils; they state exactly what they plan to do and always make good on it. They are hardly a secretive bunch.
People, exactly how stupid are we? I mean, Islam says over and over again exactly what they are going to do, then they do it, and then they call the Hippy Press and brag about doing it. There is absolutely no mystery to decipher here, no whodunit. This is the pure face of Islam: by terror ye shall bow to our will.
And worst of all, we’ve not only been warned, we’ve been witnesses.
“Alex,†my Muslim source, wrote an impassioned letter to America, pleading with us to heed his warnings. Another WARCHICK team member had warned us of groups of Middle Eastern men committing fraud and aggression against us on our own soil—and these were post-911. And the biggest warning of all came thousands of years ago from God Himself. He warned us about the last days, and what would happen after His beloved Israel was once again restored to the earth. And boy, did He call it.
Have you seen them on FOX and CNN, refusing to address any questions regarding the kidnapped men, dwelling instead on the people who were tried, convicted, sentenced and imprisoned in Israel, as if kidnapping and justice were exactly the same thing? We are not dealing with reasonable, decent people here, but we certainly keep pretending we are. And the one nation that is standing by Israel is too Politically Castrated to even name Islam as the cause of all of this; I have no faith that we will do what needs to be done now. Knowing that, and in spite of it, I am going say what our representatives are too gutless to acknowledge.
Islam has got to go. Now. Forever. Amen.
Now I know this doesn’t sit well with a people whose very nation was founded by those seeking religious freedom; that same nation would go on to put “freedom of religion†in the same league as “speech†and “press.†Yes, it was that important. And judging by the fagatronics of the hippies, anti-religion types, and Islammunism—the past decade alliance of Islam and communism—it is more important now than ever. But there is a new element that we cannot deny and must confront: this time, a religious group—not a political group—stands between choosing life and choosing death, between freedom and slavery. And that changes the entire dynamic. Never before has any other religion been “forced†upon this nation, or demanded to control law, or forbid the foundations of our beloved Constitution. Never.
Yet we keep on playing “Let’s Pretend†with nations who gleefully attack Israel and us for having the gall to exist. That is even more evil than Islam. The Koran states it clearly: every follower must consider the non-Islam world an area of perpetual war until every knee bows to allah. And whether you’re bowing of your own free will or at the point of a sword doesn’t matter. Every Jew must be dead, every infidel converted, enslaved, or dead, and that even means the commie-kissin’, Islam-lickin’ traitors at the New York Times.
I have a feeling that the hippies believe that if they “play nice†with Islam, they’ll somehow be spared. I’ll admit it; I’m flummoxed. I’ve checked and re-checked, and nowhere in the Koran does it say: And in allah’s name, the hippies who aid our propaganda shall be spared. Last I checked they still fall into the Jew/Infidel category.
When I got on the computer Wednesday morning, I found an instant message from my old friend Shlomi. It was short, simple, and to the point: Be prepared for a big war. I haven’t heard back from him since. Later that day, a WARCHICK team member called to tell me that his son Eden was in the IDF right now, and that he wasn’t doing too well after a phone call to Israel was interrupted by loud bombs and urgent radio announcements. And at around midnight, my friend Andy called. My blood ran chill; I instantly knew why she was calling. Andy’s son Michael has been with the IDF for six years, and was in the thick of the battle, reassuring his mother that he was OK. What a touching thing; in a moment of terrible fear, pain, and chaos, this magnificent warrior thought only of his mother, and tried to calm her fears. Any parent can understand the hell she is going through, and the pride she feels. The kindness, the unselfishness of Michael’s act are hallmarks of Judaism and Christianity.
We cannot say the same about Islam. In fact, it is because of Islam that so many mothers are afraid and tearful today. Yeah, I said it, and I meant it. In fact, let me be even more blunt: Islam is Satan’s own.
I don’t think that any of our founding fathers foresaw the day when a religion would hold as one of its doctrines the intolerance of other religions, even going so far as to justify murder of children to enforce the conviction. It was a problem they hadn’t faced with any other religion that touched America for its first hundred years. In fact, the three big things that Islam and communism both deplore—free speech, free press, and free religion—are the things so many of us have died to obtain and maintain not just for ourselves, but for others. They are that precious to us.
In WWII, there was a group who wanted the world to bow to it. They hated the Jews and sought to wipe them out. They allied with another wicked nation who also sought world domination at any cost, even suicide bombings and turning airplanes into missiles. As Americans, we looked at what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan believed and did and collectively said, “This is not right. Freedom cannot have these cancers within and expect to survive. They’ve already proven to be aggressively malignant, and must be not only stopped, but utterly removed.†We weren’t afraid to say it then because we knew we were right. Political Castration had not yet made us afraid of truth and words. We did not worry about “offending†them or making them angry; WE were offended and angry, and wanted them GONE. We made the decision, we made the plans, and we did not stop until they surrendered without condition. Freedom won.
That is the identical problem we are facing now. We have a group who hates the Jews and has repeatedly stated they want them wiped out. They believe in suicide bombings and in turning airplanes into missiles. They have allied with another wicked regime who also seeks world domination at any cost, and who in their heyday killed more Jews than Hitler. But this time, America looked at them and said, “Ummm…Islammunism is a religion of peace. We don’t want them off the earth, only those who twist what Islam is.†We are afraid to say the truth in spite of knowing it is right. Political Castration has made us weak and cowardly, and we will continue to take it until we surrender without condition. Freedom lost.
We should have made it clear on May 15, 1948, that attacking a nation that has been legally established was NOT acceptable. We should have made it clear when the entire Islamic world was about to invade Israel that that was NOT acceptable. We should have made it clear when Islamic terrorists murdered Olympians that that was NOT acceptable. We should have made it clear when Americans were held hostage for over a year that we would NOT tolerate that behavior. And if we had only done the first “should haveâ€, we would have NOT had to do any of the others. We are 60 years behind in this war, and make no mistake; we are going to pay dearly for that denial.
There can be no more doubt, people, no word manipulation, no walking on eggshells. Time to choose your side, gird up your loins, and fight until you win. But which side, you might ask? Those of us who refused to hand over our balls to Political Castration don’t even have to ask. So let me make it easy for the rest of you now.
Iran—Guilty.
Iraq—Guilty.
Syria—Guilty.
Saudi Arabia—Guilty.
North Korea—Guilty.
China—Guilty.
Lybia—Guilty.
Lebanon—Double Guilty.
Palestinians—Guilty and ugly.
And Israel? Get ‘em all; hard.
Keep the faith, bros, and in all things courage.
“Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact.”
July 17th, 2006 at 1:41 pm[...] As I watched the events in the Middle East unfold this weekend, I couldn’t help but think how many church services on Sunday were warning their congregations to repent and get ready because the rapture is upon us. I also wonder how many of these church goers were actually giddy about the thought of the end of times. How many were hoping for an all out World War so that the ‘Second Coming’ would arrive. William Kristol is calling for one. But what do you expect from one of Bush’s biggest supporters. At the Rapture Ready forum they are all excited about the thought of returning back home. [...]
July 17th, 2006 at 1:44 pmTo # 64: “The Palestinians want peace.”
Yeah right! Only if said peace consists of Jew slaves and Jew graves. Palestinians just ELECTED a terrorist organization to govern them. I think that pretty much means they don’t want peace with Israel.
What happened when Israel unilaterally withdrew completely from Gaza and from Lebanon? The Palestinians stepped up their attacks!
What a joke. Comments like yours are why conservatives look at “progressives” and wonder how you all can be so freaking stupid.
Of course, if Larry the Lib accepts in his mind that Palestinians DON’T want peace, then Larry the Lib is forced to deal with a reality that turns his little fantasy world upside down: “You mean not all people are good? You mean there are some people who want to kill me just because I’m not a radical Muslim like them? You mean that even if I am nice to them they will still want to hurt me? My goodness — we’ve got to stop these madmen before they kill us all! Oh wait a minute, small mind is feeling confused… [Liberal brainwashing reboots, setting Larry the Lib back to his proper liberal mindset.] Wow, what happened? Where was I again? Oh yeah… NO BLOOD FOR OIL! NO BLOOD FOR OIL!”
July 17th, 2006 at 2:05 pmIt’s time to say that it is NOT OK for .01% of the global population to risk the future of the other 6 BILLION of us.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:36 pmThe PNAC (Kristol’s organization) planned and perpetrated this all way in advance. Read about it here.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:39 pmJuly 17th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
How many of you would punch Krystol smack in the jaw if you got the chance ? just think how good it would feel…WHACK ! THAT WAS FOR THE INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND BRAVE SOLDIERS DEATHS !!!
July 17th, 2006 at 3:11 pmIt a long established fact that the only thing America has left to export is guns and violence. All consumer product manufacturing has been off-shored/outsourced long ago.
Is it surprising to learn that a nation will export what it makes? Of course not. Just good economic sense.
Long Live the Neo-cons. “War. Since 1776″. How’s that for a product tag-line.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:16 pmWhen this many posts appear–it means war against,the vermin that infest our media and government.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:23 pmWhy has 2% whoish of the population taken America to so many wars,namely WWI WWII and our non-whoish politicks pander for a handout.I guess no-one cares if Jews contro;; our media, courts and government. What is odd–Americans –Uncle Sam is robbed to Pay Oilmert’s Israel wars.What is worse–we are fighting their wars and invasions.
Billy Crystol–That is not his real name–the guy is a Russian. Who won the cold war?–Russian Jews fools–gander close to who’s pulling the strings in Washington.
No cure for America’s infestation problems cause 98% of the population are donkeys!
In a second. And I’d let him take the first slug.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:30 pm#42, 49, 56 [broadside]
” The real ethnic cleansing was by the militant Muslim Kosovars.”
Right, because it’s always those who are being exterminated who are the troublemakers (which , come to think of it, is exactly what you people said about the American Indians in the 19th Century and the Jews in the 1930’s and 40’s).
[By the way, if anyone wants to know the original source of b's above claim, it happens that it's G. Gordon Liddy. Enough said. - SAR]
“dump more tens of thousands of innocents into mass graves on a regular basis?”
After 1992, according to all available human rights data, Saddam killed at most
100 people every year, a number which decreased every year until by 2003 it was only at about 20; while this is of course, still deplorable, it is hardly the “tens of thosands” you mentioned. And he onlt killed in those numbers twice – once in 1986 and once in 1992, both times with Republican (that would be your party, by the way) approval. Further, and in fact, Bush killed more people during hi term as govermor of Texas than Saddam did in his last four years in power.
”
And making prisoners wear women’s panties on their head or telling them that other “prisoners said they were gay; you would call that torture? ”
No, but I would call the anal rape of young boys torture, something we also did
(and don’t say we didn’t, because the video and audio are publicly available).
Seymour Hersh (who broke the story) :
“The worst part of it was the screaming of the young boys [as they were anally raped]”
One woman prisoner sent a letter out to her family begging them to come
to the prison and kill her. [Does this sound like someone who was happy to be there, b? SAR]
Then there’s the rape of women, forced starvation, “waterboarding” (a repeated near-death drowning technique], and on and on.
And on top of all that, it has been confirmed that not only were 90% of
Abu Ghriab prisoners innocent , but that the Bush administration knew they were in advance, and were using them as part of a program to create a network of involuntary Iraqi civilian spies.
SR
July 17th, 2006 at 4:05 pmHow sad, so many people on the left are so eager to blame Israel and embrace islamic fascism in this conflict. The side effect is that many people who are moderate or progressive in most matters will be so put off by this that they will again put more right wingers into office since the alternative is clearly lacking in the ability to think clearly and critically. Ironic, too.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:07 pm#94
On global warming:
Between 1993 and 2003 there were 928(!) peer-reviewed scientific studies on global climate change (read: studies analyzed, critiqued and upheld by people who actually know what they’re talking about). Every single one of them determined that 1) the Earth is warming, and 2) humans are the cause. Every single one. (Go read a few at realclimate.org) The scientific debate is over. Done. Finished. People like you – people who seem to think we can pollute the biosphere without limit yet not suffer any consequences of same – have lost.
SR
July 17th, 2006 at 4:21 pmI guess everyone knows that Bill Kristol, like so many of the key GOP warmongers DID NOT SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES. He fits in well with those in the Bush/GOP criminal element who hid when it came time to fight for our country and who now are destroying it. THE ONE-PARTY RULE MUST END. — a veteran.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pmAs a liberal, I’m appalled to see how other so-called liberals turn into virulent anti-Semites at the mention of Israel. It’s repellent and disgusting and I find myself edging more and more to the Right where, at a minimum, there’s a clear recognition that the Arab-Muslim world has demonstrated a monstrous and absolute disregard for human life. Nothing in the Judeo-Christian world compares with the scale of today’s violence and for liberals to ignore that is sheer folly and it’s no wonder and probably a blessing that we’ll never be back in the White House.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:33 pmTo #182-
Don’t give up the ghost yet.
I’m a liberal who does not blame Israel for legitimately defending itself. Israel has consistantly bent over backwards and gotten kicked in the nuts by Islamo-Fascists. Every now and then you hear a moderate Arab speak out against the violence inflicted by Hamas, Hezbollah or the PLO, but not with any cohesive voice and certainly not often enough.
And a note to the “Jews control all the media and the banks” pukes; I’m surprised you haven’t whipped out “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” crap out yet. Please, don’t miss out on that opportunity.
July 17th, 2006 at 5:01 pmAs a Jew, who spent 27 years in the Army, was involved in 5 “conflicts” (Dominican Republic in ‘65,Viet Nam 65-67,Panama ,Grenada and Sand box 1 as a Soldier sandbox 2 as a Dept of Army civilian, I am appalled at the number of people that rant and rave about the Isreali reaction to the rocket and bomb attacks, you should ALL
July 17th, 2006 at 5:07 pmhope and pray that YOU city is not bombed in the same way, because I am sure you would bend over and spread your cheeks for a second round.
The Israel war with her neighbors is a distraction.
As Israel bombs and attacks, the US erodes our freedoms.
The US gov’t ignores the 1st Amendment by caging peaceful protestors and forcing books like “America Deceived” by E.A. Blayre III off Amazon and Wikipedia (who admitted a conspiracy).
The US gov’t disregards the 4th Amendment by wire-tapping all phones without probable cause.
Soon, the US will attack Iran and throw the nation into complete chaos.
Then a false-flag attack will occur within the US (like 9/11) and the people will beg for One World Gov’t.
Last link (before Google Books is pressured to drop the book):
July 17th, 2006 at 5:25 pmhttp://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
Hey Mad Jew:
Tell Israel to stop occupying other peoples land, and maybe they won’t get shot at. Israel has been in violation of more UN resolutions than Iraq ever was because of it.
And you might also want to drop the invasion of the golf course that is Grenada if you want to salvage what’s left of your credibility, I was involved too.
Sincerely,
July 17th, 2006 at 5:34 pm-Cid
3rd generation US vet.
The anti-semites not only hate jews, but they appear to fear and hate their own government with an unmatched vitriol. (I doubt that Cid is a real vet, but it’s nice to lie on a board like this when all you have to offer is venom) Meanwhile, the double standard they apply to Israel is apparent. Which nation in the world did not, at some point in its history, arrive on a piece of land, lay claim to it, and develop it? Why should Israel be singled out for criticism by these lowbrows because of nationalism, religion, history, doing too much, doing too little? Why should jews be singled and libeled with ” controlling the media, ” when any moron (a level just above jew haters in intellectual prowess) can read a chart of who owns what and see that it’s everyone BUT the jews who actually own the organs and institutions that run the world? As to Israel occupying other peoples land, first, this was the historic land of Israel, shut down by ancient Rome. Had Romans, and then the Europeans, showed any tolerance towards jews after they destroyed their homeland and forced them into exile, I’m guessing that there would have been no need for a safe haven that is the state of Israel. And if the world exercised even a modicum (jew haters may need to do the unthinkable and use a dictionary…but they won’t, as that would require a little intellectual curiosity, which is the opposite of their approach: only reading and listening and talking to people that they already agree with, or shouting down those they disagree with instead of engaging in honest discourse), of fairness in its approach to the middle east, there would be pressure brought to bear on the palestinians to keep their promises (Oslo accords? They said one thing and did another), on Arab countries to stop sponsoring terrorism, and for the war of a thousand cuts waged against Israel since its inception would be brought to a stop, Israel would be allowed to live in peace (Israel has made countless concessions in the name of peace, each of which was perceived as weakness by Israel’s enemies, along with jew haters, big surprise). Anyway, that was then, this is now. And the world isn’t going to work out unless it shifts its attention from being right about who is wrong, and focuses on the tomorrow we’re creating today. UN resolutions brought by non democratic countries in a bloc of jew hating…this is what Israel refuses to bow to. Meanwhile, the sad little jew haters feel powerful in looking down on jews and keeping their views skewed. Along the way, they keep alienating intelligent people and polarizing them, thus keeping our current administration in power for yet another election cycle. Jews were at the front of every movement for positive social change (*end slavery, women get the vote, civil rights). So where are the people they befriended when they need them?
July 17th, 2006 at 6:13 pmIsrael has no right to defend stolen land !
Is it any wonder with Zionists in charge in Washington that we were attacked on 9-11 ? The neocon-supporters of Israel will not be happy until we have another 9-11.
I am so tired of hearing the propaganda that ” Israel has the right to defend itself.” The people that Israel occupies have a more important right to defend themselves and resist Israel’s occupation. This is an International Law set forth in the Geneva Conventions, as well as the United Nations Charter.
Israel cannot claim that it has a right to defend land that it stole from it’s neighbors ! Under the UN Charter it is illegal to accquire land by means of force, as Israel did in 1948 and 1967, and again in 1980-82 (Lebanon). When Israel was admitted into the UN it was required to agree speciffically to these rules. Israel’s Keneset agreed to this, as did about 180 other countries. It is an International Treaty.
Remember that Israel still occupies Syria’s Golan Heights and also a large farm area which is Lebanese territory, and of course the entire West Bank of the Jordan river.
And also remember that Israel has a duty to obey the UN Resolutions 242 and 194 that require it to return the occupied territorties and let the refugees return home.
The only reason the UN resolutions have not been enforced with sanctions is because The United States uses it’s veto to protect Israel, as we saw last week when the Security Council tried to find a peaceful solution to Israel’s agression in Lebanon.
Of course these occupied people will resort to violence to attempt to regain the land stolen from them. That is the only recourse available to them, since The United Nations and International Laws cannot be applied because of our use of the veto in the Security Council.
All other countries and peoples in the world today have protection and a means of recourse to resolve conflicts except for Israel’s neighbors.
Is it any wonder that we were attacked on 9-11 ? The necon-supporters of Israel will not be happy until we have another 9-11. They want a clash of civilizations. That, I suppose they reason , is the only way Israel any keep the land it stole, and also at the same time evict the remaining Palestinians from the land.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:28 pmRandy,
I have Jewish ancestry. And what Israel and the US are doing now is NOT justified in any way, shape or form.
Care to cast this as some sort of anti-Semitism? Then you can kiss my Jewish ass. You can likewise go peddle your sleazy attempts at peddling ‘dissent is bigotry’ someplace where it will get better traction.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:36 pmWar is What they Wanted and Now They Have It (or so they hope)…
John Dean’s new book, Conservatives Without a Conscience, about the rise of an authoritrian culture within the Republican Party could not have been published at a better time. One of his points — perhaps his main point — is that an a…
July 17th, 2006 at 6:41 pmDoes anyone now have any doubts as to who is dictating American forign policy ? Obviously it is Israel and it’s Amen Corner over here. William Kristol is one of their leaders. His loyalty is to Israel above all else. He wants to make Israel’s enemies our enemies. He wants to prolong and escalate the war on terror. That, I suppose he reasons , is the only way Israel any keep the land it stole, and also at the same time evict the remaining Palestinians from the land.
This Lebanon agression is going to backfire against both Israel and the US. Today, Germany’s new Prime Minister, a total Zionist herself, just did an about face and warned Israel not to invade Lebanon.
Mater Al Sader, in Bagdad with his 30,000 man Shia army, just warned today that they will not stand by as Hezbella is attacked. If these guys come after US troups it means that we will be out of Iraq within weeks as the resistence doubles overnight.
George Bush learned his lesson well when the Israel Lobby attacked him two years ago when he told Israel to back off when they leveled Jenin in the West Bank. That is why Bush has remained silent today. His hands are tied durring an election year, same for Democrats, But, that doesn’t mean that the Europeans can’t warn Israel, perhaps with our behind the sceens encouragement.
If I were Hezbella, I would issue a statement that …”in light of the fact that it is American supplied bombs and warplanes which are attacking Lebenon, all of the 25,000 American citizens currently inside Lebanon must “report” to “register” as potential forign agents” . That would shut down Israel’s invasion right in it’s tracksand put a chill down the back of everyone except possibly William Kristol.
Why should Hezbella allow Americans to evacuate Beruit while America’s client state is killing Lebanese and destroying their country ? And as America says gives Israel the green light ?
Does anyone now have any doubts as to who is dictating American forign policy ? Obviously it is Israel and it’s Amen Corner over here.
Remember, it is Israel that bombed the airport and and the road to Syria and stranded 25,000 Americans. Some friend that is is !!! Everything that we do from here on out will be exactly the opposite of what reality requires, In the end we will lose, and Hezbella will win.
Remember the suicide truck bomb that took out 240 Marines ? That was Hezbella. They have people right now , right here, willing to walk up to our politicians and kill them just like Sirhan Sirhan (a Palestinian) did to Robert Kenedy back in 1968.
I can’t wait to see Hilllary Clinton get what she deserves. This country needs to be taught a bitter lesson. The same lesson that we should have learned from 9-11, but failed to learn.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:55 pmOn the right’s war mongers…
Witness as Juan Williams takes it to William Kristol this weekend on Fox News:WILLIAMS: Well, it just seems to me that you want … you just want war, war, war, and you want us in more war. You wanted us…
July 17th, 2006 at 6:58 pmhttp://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9314
July 17, 2006
Will We Go to War for Israel?
Israel says “Jump!”
Americans ask: “How high?”
by Justin Raimondo
Listening to Newt Gingrich bloviate on Meet the Press, advocating U.S. intervention on Israel’s behalf against Syria and Iran – and the pathetic Joe “Me Too” Biden effectively agreeing with him – one can only wonder how or why anybody listens to these crazies. As Newt, the megalomaniacal has-been, gleefully declares that “World War III” is in progress, and weaves a conspiracy theory linking Iran, Syria, North Korea, Hezbollah, and – believe it or not! – Venezuela, old Joe just sits there nodding out. Given a chance to reply, his only objection to Gingrich’s vision of war on all fronts is that, yes, we need to go to war, but we have to do it with the support of our allies. “Fighting Joe” Biden is no weenie: his voice hardens as he avers we should tell the North Koreans that we have the capacity to “annihilate” them. Gingrich smiles.
He has good reason to smile. Aside from his fondness for the concept of annihilation, he knows that the War Party’s “liberal” Democratic wing is falling into line. The Israeli invasion of Lebanon – which many predict will include the de facto annexation of a southern “buffer zone” – has the fulsome support of both parties. When the Israelis tell the Americans to jump, the only question Biden and the Democratic party leadership have is: How high?
What Israel wants is what they have always wanted: to use American power, American tax dollars, and American lives to advance their own expansionist agenda. Twenty-five thousand Americans are in Lebanon at the present moment, all of them at risk from Israeli bombs – but that didn’t factor into Tel Aviv’s calculations, any more than Lebanese or Palestinian lives matter one whit to them. The Israelis put Israel first – and so does Washington. If all 25,000 American tourists and others have to perish in the flames of Israeli air strikes, then so be it. No sacrifice is too great – just as long as our Israel-centric foreign policy remains firmly in place.
Unleashed by the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the presence of a substantial American force in the midst of Mesopotamia, the Israelis are the tip of an American spear aimed at Syria and Iran. And Israel’s amen corner in Washington and the media are doggedly pushing the talking point that these two spokes on the “axis of evil” are churning the Lebanese waters. MSNBC assures us that Iran “created” Hezbollah: knowledgeable analysts can only laugh at this agitprop – but then they aren’t cited in this piece. Only a former Israeli general is.
Hezbollah, of course, was “created,” not by Iran, but by the Israeli invasion of 1982. The group gained prestige and adherents as it drove the invading Israelis back over the border and set up an elaborate network of social service organizations, standing candidates for office and entering the Lebanese Parliament. The mere sight of an Arab entity successfully defying Israel, and not only living to tell the tale but also prospering, is impermissible: Russian President Vladimir Putin was not alone in saying that there was more to the Israeli agenda than merely getting back their captured – um, I mean “kidnapped” – soldiers.
Another war, a silent war, is going on in the corridors of power, and the fighting in the Middle East, in an important sense, is merely a reflection of a long, bitter internecine struggle in Washington. Those Republican “realists” we hear so much about – holdovers from the Bush I regime, “realist” policy wonks, and those Republicans who look at the polls – have their champion (or best hope, at any rate) in Condoleezza Rice. Her personal relationship with the president and her elevation to head of the State Department have led several commentators to equate this as a victory for the “realists.”
The neoconservative ideologues, who have been the radical vanguard of the War Party all along, certainly believe this, which is why Richard Perle recently took her on in the Washington Post. The Condi faction temporarily gained the upper hand when they came out with a policy on Iran that had been worked on in secret and took the road of negotiation rather than outright military confrontation and “regime change.”
The Israeli answer: invade Lebanon, force the issue, and go for the throat. With the Israel lobby going full-bore and the propaganda mills churning, the invasion undermines the Rice faction and puts the issue of regime-change back on the administration’s agenda. While that change of regime will, initially, be limited to southern Lebanon, where Hezbollah operates a de facto independent state, it will eventually – the neocons hope – extend to the whole of the country, topple Bashar al-Assad in Syria – and, eventually, spill over into Iran.
Dan Rather said on Chris Matthews’ Sunday show that the road is littered with the corpses of those who underestimated Dick Cheney, and the reassertion of the neoconservative voice within this administration – a voice that many thought had been nearly stilled by the grotesque failure of our Iraqi disaster – is a testament to the validity of his thesis.
The neocons’ comeback is made possible by the Democrats’ complete prostration before the Israeli offensive. Biden’s babbling that our lack of allies has crippled our ability to mediate the Middle East conflict is completely wrong – and beside the point, in any case. To begin with, all the Arab killer regimes – the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the dictators, the kings, the petty tyrants and emirs – are taking the line that Hezbollah, and not Israel, is to blame. The Lebanese, they say, have brought this on themselves and now have to bear the consequences of Hassan Nasrallah’s actions.
Yet a state of war still exists between Israel and Lebanon – no peace treaty was ever signed. And the border is closely watched by both parties: it’s hard to imagine the Israelis failed to realize that sending in a few unguarded troops so close to Hezbollah positions would likely result in their capture. Hezbollah took the bait, and the trap snapped shut.
The question boils down to this: can the Israelis win a war with Hezbollah without American intervention? The answer, clearly, is no: look what happened last time. The Americans, lured into Beirut, suffered 241 casualties – after bombing Beirut’s suburbs – and Reagan wisely withdrew. Israel, in the end, was driven out. The neocons are determined that, this time, the Americans will not only stay – they’ll go for Damascus.
The call for American military intervention is bound to come up, rather shortly, and get louder as the long “precision” bombing of the Lebanese continues. The Israelis will pound Lebanon in a display of U.S.-backed military power, and the only debate in Washington will be over to what extent we ought to intervene, rather than whether we ought to get involved at all.
In the end, some combination of UN-NATO-American military intervention will do for the Israelis what they could never accomplish on their own: neutralize all opposition to their conquest of Palestine coming from the Levant. The “debate” in Washington is only over how to achieve that goal: the Democrats say we have to do it “multilaterally,” and the Republicans, with Jacksonian disdain, say we don’t have to answer to anybody (except the Israelis, of course).
There is no “solution” to the Middle East’s many conflicts, and American attempts to formulate one are doomed to failure. Some problems are just not solvable by human efforts, and this is one of them. Our intervention only serves to exacerbate the situation and spread the conflict – with blowback that can and did have deadly consequences as far as our own interests are concerned.
American interests play little or no role in the formulation of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, and we all know why. What scholars John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt said in their now famous study [.pdf] of “the Lobby,” as they call it, is being confirmed in spades by this latest episode:
“For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centerpiece of U.S. Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardized not only U.S. security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the U.S. been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state?”
Their answer: “The unmatched power of the Israel Lobby.”
That Lobby is now furiously demanding – and getting – unconditional support for the violation of Lebanon’s sovereignty not only from the president, but from the leaders of both political parties and the major mandarins of the commentariat. The Mearsheimer-Walt thesis has now been confirmed. The question is: what do we do about it?
America’s real interests in the Middle East are in securing two primary goals: (1) Making sure that war and political factors don’t obstruct the free flow of commerce – and oil – to American markets, and (2) neutralizing the Osama bin Ladens of the Middle East ideologically, not necessarily in that order. Regarding the first goal, I merely refer you to current oil prices. On the second matter, our unconditional support for Israel’s brazen invasion is now the chief recruiting tool for bin Laden and his gang.
While the War Party runs roughshod over authentic American interests, the U.S. political landscape, at this point, lacks anything remotely resembling a Peace Party. Don’t look to the Democrats, as a party, to come to our rescue. They won’t. “The Lobby” works both sides of the partisan fence, and, as we all know, “politics ends at the water’s edge” – which is how we’ve been dragged into every war of modern times, despite popular opposition.
Perhaps, some day, an administration and a Congress that puts America first will regain control of Washington. That prospect, however, appears dim at the moment. As Americans wake up to World War IV on the horizon, however, it is not completely out of the question. War teases out new trends and creates new patterns in the politics of a nation, and it does so rather rapidly. In any case, we have to hope – because the alternative is so unappealing.
July 17th, 2006 at 7:16 pm# 165 = You misspelled generous.
July 17th, 2006 at 7:26 pmRandy,
Blow it out your you-know-what. Not only did I serve, but my father was a lifer, and my grandfather was KIA in Korea. However, next time I take up a weapon in defense of my country, it’ll be against its ‘domestic’ enemies (like you and the rest of your ilk) that I swore an oath to defend it from.
July 17th, 2006 at 7:41 pmI cannot believe the level of vitriol and invective here.
July 17th, 2006 at 7:57 pmIn particular, I take exception to Bill Kristol being repeatedly called piece of shit.
Shit is a highly useful byproduct of physiological process of detoxification and does not deserve the bad rap given to it by some of the posters.
Shame on you all!
Gotta go, mom’s calling for dinner.
#165
you also misspelled definition.
and misspelled doesn’t have a hyphen in it.
i don’t get it — are we supposed to pick sides in this thing?
July 17th, 2006 at 8:11 pm’cause i’d rather not.
Damn nice Juan Williams! – that was perfect…The Israeli lobby is going to destroy this country – slowly but surely – unless we fighht back and send them to hell!
We are not the enemy of Palestinians, Arabs – and Muslims. Israel is. We need to cut Israel off so we can live in peace – and keep our shoes on when we pass through secrutiy checks…
July 17th, 2006 at 8:14 pmNow that Juan Williams actually has taken a position on Fox News, he’ll probably be gone.
July 17th, 2006 at 8:16 pmMr. Williams has a point here. Warmongers like Bill Kristol not only don’t give a hoot about the security of the United States, they have NEVER served in the military or fought in America’s wars, i.e., Vietnam. If Bill Kristol and his fellow “neocon” warmong-ers are so obsessed with fighting wars against Israel’s enemies on Israel’s behalf, why don’t they go over to Lebanon or Gaza and fight alongside Israel’s soldiers? Or, are they too cowardly? They’re SO willing to talk the talk; but when it comes to walk-ing the walk, they’re AWOL! Then, the rest of us can go forward with REAL DIPLOMACY!
July 17th, 2006 at 8:34 pmIf he wants a war, then let HIM go fight it.
July 17th, 2006 at 8:38 pmIf the Bush administrastion wants to continue their wars, the let them go fight. Where are their family members
Why do we keep using the term neocon or neo conservative, Bush and co are not conservatives they are fascist. Why not call them what they are neofascist. cheney can be El Duce.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:10 pmThis Kristol fella is the source of the term ’shitty little countries’ that I often hear rightwingers use thse days. Apparently, virtually every country in south America, Africa, Asia and the Middle East is ’shitty’ so no one is supposed to care what the US does in these places. It’s so good to see him getting a little of what he deserves. More please!
July 17th, 2006 at 9:24 pmCid, point taken on Grenada it was lame. Does having been at LZ XRay mean something to you? If not too bad.
Pro-rex (sorry for shortening your handle but it is overkill. As for mispellings, I speel much better than I type, I should have checked first.
But I still say most of these people would not be able to define “Neo_Con”
July 17th, 2006 at 9:30 pmYou only have to take a look at these 3 words to understand all.
O..peration
I..raq
L..iberation
They even have the gall to rub our noses in what they are after……..
July 17th, 2006 at 11:08 pmI think its nice that Juan Williams has temporarily (?) gotten a backbone again. As the token anti-Bushite on a variety of FoxNews panels, he has been effectively muzzled and reduced to sputtering out weak “door ding ” criticisms of Bush. I call them door ding criticisms because they don’t really put a dent in Bush at all. In fact, often Juan Williams can be heard PRAISING Bush’s so-called war on terror.
July 17th, 2006 at 11:54 pmWilliam Kristol is a war monger, no doubt about it. I’m glad Williams called him on it.
On payday this week, Fox News will say, “Juan we can’t find your paycheck. Give us a few hours. It must be around here somewhere.” Just to harass him.
Mara Liasson has been similarly defanged. Sad what people will do for job security.
Mad Jew,
I’m familiar with la Drang, it’s one of the reasons I didn’t get to see my father in ‘65. He did two tours in vietnam. You say you were on the ground in a sensless war 40 years ago, yet you still advocate for more?
As far as the neo-cons go, they used to be neo-liberals. When the left didn’t buy their “spread freedom and Democracy” line they found a more gullible audience, republicans.
I’ll leave you with this:
“America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.”
Do you know who said it? If not, too bad for our country, and the Constitution you swore an oath to defend.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:56 amisrael
america
the Bible
its real
the people
do kill
these governments
well really
families
control everything
you are not free
welcome to the rabbit hole
protect your soul
russia is ready
Iran is jus chilling
get the feeling
how you take land
stand and say freedom
how you have slaves
ghettos
capitalism and say
Jesus
touch Syria
I dare you
dont do that
silicon in chests
and in brains
TV and xbox got kids up late
your jobs are where?
support a family?
better have more than a college degree
10 years of carpentry
trust funds
ok heres one for you
separation of
church and state
we set up a church
as a state
wait
yep
because of concentration camps
even though we know who caused
hyperinflation
reichstag
9-11
iraq, the liberty
now this
trip off this
everybody bringing in aircraft carriers
to rescue their citizens from Lebanon
pray
its about to go down
down down
like down folks wake up
up
its to late
you put him in
you saved this date
because you thought you was saved
now we get erased
a lot survived
a lot rode high
don’t know how many died
dont care
reparations
got it
for us
not yet true
and never will be
oh well
my ancestry survived the passage
over ten million in the bottom of the ocean
the world keeps coasting
boasting
05 got my JD
Just passed the bar
in CA
yeah its hard
the life
knowing wrong from right
yah just now seeing it
this country has been a sore sight
boo boo and pee to its lips
republican democrat
July 18th, 2006 at 3:43 amit doesn’t matter
you don’t get it
they all run it together
Here we have a country armed o the teeth by the Amercan tax dollar, siting on 200 estimated nuclear war heads and it feels threatend and needs direct involvement by the USA.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:50 amCome on folks who’s kidding who?
Truth is a lot of money is made in war and 500 billion dollar forcast for Iraq alone is very good news for the warmongers and their bank balance.
Just think how much they are going to make when they take on Syria and Iran.
Of course Kristol and his pals aint going to go and fight them that will be left to you poor suckers.
Go on go and flag wave for good old apple pie and mom get your balls blown off for Cheneys new Yacht and Bush new high class hooker.
Go die for the Rockerfella and Rothchild oil and banking profit’s.
For god sake America (and us British) need to wake up and wake up bloody fast.
By the way, if you’re going to say the war is a distraction to eroding freedoms at home, then don’t talk about silly, indirect erosions like wiretapping.
Talk about IMBRA, which takes away your right to meet foreigners. The law is particularly about on online dating sites. But, for it to be upheld, the Supreme Court has to agree that the government can decide whom you can meet and how. IMBRA implies that it is a privilege to contact foreigners online that the government can take away if they hear anecdotes about how maybe one American killed his foreign-born wife.
The Republicans all voted for IMBRA (except Tancredo). Bush signed it. THERE is your erosion of freedom. THERE is your reason to wonder what kind of society we’re trying to bring to Lebanon and Iraq and Iran.
But then look: The Democrats WROTE the law! Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:33 am[Just think how much they are going to make when they take on Syria and Iran.]
Syria will be a drain on resources but Iran’s oil revenues will pay for the war and help make the whole region peaceful and prosperous. You must look at the other side of the coin which is more important: terrorists will not be getting a penny of Iran’s oil revenue after the good guys gain control (good Iranians I mean).
Of course, we have to look at the idea that Iran already has a nuke. That might be the reason why the USA hasn’t already put good Iranians in charge of Iran’s oil revenue.
I’d like to see a democratic Iran and Syria before the November elections, but Bush wants permawar and won’t attack for that reason.
Joe Lieberman would have already made sure that Iran’s oil revenues weren’t being used to fund a terror machine.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:41 amHave never seen Kristol’s image before. He is a compleat sissy schoolboy.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:55 amOh BTW, #211 you are not the brightest bulb on the, er ah, ‘tannenbaum’ ….
July 18th, 2006 at 7:58 am[...] Kristol, a chickenhawk who never served a day in the military, just threw up his hands at Williams’ soft, weak, peacenik attitude and didn’t bother to answer.–Think Progress [...]
July 18th, 2006 at 8:40 amIsrael took the “occupied territories” as a result of the ‘67 & Yom Kippur Wars to secure areas from whivch the Arab countries launched their unprovoked attacks. Most recently however, Sharon removed the Jewish settlements that the Palestinians said were a roadblock to peace. Sharon did this despite being an extremem hardliner and took a lot of crap from his own party. The settlers did not go willingly and the IDF was sent in to remove them by force.
So now the Arabs respond by kidnapping Israeli soldiers and continuing th e bombings. As they’ve done in Palestiine, so they do in Lebanon-putting their Hamas and Hezbollah forces in residientiial neighborhoods and in mosques, intentionally putting their own people at risk for the propaganda potential. These organizations do not bargain in good faith. Go back to the statements they’ve been making for 58 years-it is their intention to drive the Israelis into the sea, killing all they can.
It seems to me that Israel, whether governed by liberals, moderates ot hardliners have exercised amazing restraint overall and have consistantly been willing to sit down and negotiate. Who can blame them if they’ve hit their “Popeye factor”-”That’s all I can stands ‘cuz I can’t stands no more!”
July 18th, 2006 at 10:10 amThank God Juan Williams has finally regained his moral compass. I have watched in amazement and sadness for the past several years as this award winning socially committed print journalist has turned into FOX’s stepanfetchit. They must have paid him mightily to bite his lip. But finally he has erupted with intelligent passion and it has resonated with many crying out for real morality on FOX. Don’t stop, Juan.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:15 amIt goes without saying that Kristol is a gutless intellectual lightweight.
Dear Eric in CT
Israel did not capture any additional land in the October 1973 Yom Kippur war. That war was launched by the Arab states in an attempt to regain the land that was stolen from them in June 1967 and also the 1948 war.
And they started the 1973 war only after Israel refused to negotiate for the return of the land, and also after the US used it’s veto power at the United Nations to prevent the enforcement of UN resolutions 242 and 194, which requires Israel to return the land it stole and let the Palestinians refugees return home.
You fail to realize that there is a good reason that the UN has passed these resolutions, now more that 35 years ago,
Under the UN Charter it is illegal to accquire land by means of force, as Israel did in 1948 and 1967, and again in 1980-82 (Lebanon). The resaon that we, the entire world, got together to agree on this law, is because 60 million people died durring World War II, and we don’t want to have this happen again.
When Israel was admitted into the UN it was required to agree speciffically to these International laws. Israel’s Keneset agreed to this, as did about 180 other countries. It is an International Treaty.
Israel cannot give back part of the land it stole, like for example Gaza, and then expect to impose a unilateral solution to the problem. The entire world has told Israel that it must give back all of the land it stole, And this is exactly why William Kristol, a total Zionists supporter of Israel, wants a bigger war, with the US involved.
Israel is attempting to impose a unilateral solution, in order to bypass the UN resolutions. The only Israel can do this is to take out it’s enemies, one at a time. And the best way to do that is to have American soldiers sacrifice their lives for greater Israel.
Remember that Israel still occupies Syria’s Golan Heights and also a large farm area which is Lebanese territory, and of course the entire West Bank of the Jordan river.
And also remember that Israel has a duty to obey the UN Resolutions 242 and 194 that require it to return the occupied territorties and let the refugees return home.
The only reason the UN resolutions have not been enforced with sanctions is because The United States uses it’s veto to protect Israel, as we saw last week when the Security Council tried to find a peaceful solution to Israel’s agression in Lebanon.
Of course these occupied people will resort to violence to attempt to regain the land stolen from them, as they rightfully did in 1973. Not only do they have a right to resist occupatio, but, that is the only recourse available to them, since The United Nations and International Laws cannot be applied because of our use of the veto in the Security Council by the US.
All other countries and peoples in the world today have protection and a means of recourse to resolve conflicts except for Israel’s neighbors.
When Israel finally lives up to the agreements it entered into at the UN, and when Israel finally joins the rest of the world’s law abiding nations and returns the land it stole, it will be allowed to exist peacefully
July 18th, 2006 at 12:39 pmI say just ignore the whole Middle East. They act like children and always want the entire world to hear their pain. I can understand both sides but who cares? They’re all a bunch of screaming maniacs if you ask me. Israel and the whole Arab world. They’ve been fighting for thousands of years and they call the place the Holy Land? Give me a break. What’s so Holy about it? You ever hear of anyone fighting over Lao Tzu’s birthplace? To all the Muslims, Jews and Christians in the world. Read another book. The Bible is ok but come ON! It’s not something to kill or die for. Take a break from it already. Go for a walk, get laid or count to ten. Concentrate on your breath or drink a beer. Life is short and you’re all wailing like a bunch of babies. Quit reproducing like rabbits and find a place to grow food in your dried up creek beds. God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever you want to call him is laughing his ass off at you sniveling idiots fighting over rocks and dust.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:56 pm“Is Crystal married?”
No, of course not!
July 18th, 2006 at 12:59 pmHe is gay just like every other neocon!
I just wish someone would tell some of these idiot chickenhawks one word, “GOâ€.
As soon as they start yakking about being tough on this country and that country, will someone tell them to strap on their guns and GO.
I am sick and tired of hearing about kids that are not related to these neo-con chickehawks getting killed for these idiots……….
July 18th, 2006 at 1:39 pmthis frequent poster who calls himself broadside reminds me of a nascar racing fan i once knew back in tennessee. he could not bring himself to accept the fact that a chevrolet or dodge could sometimes win the bristol 500 race, because everyone knew, everyone, that the ford automobile was the fastest and best car ever made. for a ford to lose a race, or in any way not be the perfect example of a stock car racer, was simply unacceptable. whenever it happened there was something inherenlty wrong, something nefarious and conniving against the greatest car ever made. we had a lot of fun with that nitwit back then. he was a likable fool, who really couldn’t think outside of his ford-prejudiced box for one minute.
substitute “republican” or “conservative” for “ford” and you’ll get the picture for a guy like broadside. he’ll likely never learn much, because he’s already hard-wired to know it all, even if much of it is prejudiced nonsense. there’s never anything wrong with broadside’s reality, just like the ford-fanatic. it’s the realities of the chevy and dodge fans that are all wrong.
it’s best to ignore people like broadside, but sometimes you have to stand firm with them and hope their ranks don’t grow like a bad fungus. also, it’s good to remember that the subjects being discussed here are far more serious than arguments about fords and chevies, even if the discussions do sometimes sink to the level of fanaticism.
personally, i think the honda racing car is the best. in the last indy500 i think every race car had a honda engine, a little more than twenty years after honda failed miserably in their debut at the indy500 race. we could learn from the japanese on how to admit error and work harder at fixing our mistakes. we’ve all made plenty of them, and our current government continues to pile them up. nevertheless, this is a great country and i’m glad we have a lot of choices in cars and everything else. the trick is to choose wisely.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:28 pmJuan Williams is The Man. he got right to the heart of this war mongering by William Kristol. Good.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:36 pmI stand by my earlier statement-everbody loves the Jews when they die. Perish the thought they should defend themselves. Are the Israelis rquired to obey the UN mandates? Sure-and I’m sure they will as soon as the surrounding Arab states stop threatening Israel’s extermination, death to the Jews, blah, blah, blah. It’s always the arabs whoi attack. It’s always the Arabs who break the deals they’ve signed onto. But somehow it’s always the Jews fault. Israel doesn’t send suicide bombers into pizza parlors. Israel doesn’t plant bombs on buses. I don’t believe that the Arabs are capable of dealing with Israel, the US or anything even vaguely resembliong modernity in good faith.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pmHow about the duty of the Arabs to behave like a civilized people and bargain in good faith? If the only conflict the Muslim world had was with Israel, the pro-Palestinian memes I’m reading here would have more validity. But the fundie Muslims who’ve seized control seem to have problems dealing with everyone. Be it internal, as is eveidenced by the way they treat their women or men whose beards aren’t long enough, to their reaction to the cartoons published in the Danish newspapers a few months back. In that case they showed their tolerance for other ideas by dragging DAnes from their homes in Beirut, Danes who were in no way responsible for those cartoons, and beat the crap out of them. The Arab world has, since day one, made it plain they nothing short of the extermination of the Jews is at the top of theri agenda. There is absolutley nothing that Israel can do that will satisfy Hamas, Hezbollah or the PLO.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:36 pmEric in CT,
Go read Rambo Daves’ post before you choke on your own verbal diarrhea. It’s loaded with lots of yummy things we in the reality based community refer to as ‘facts’. I realize that you’re a so-called conservative, and therefore not familiar with such things, but you might as well grow up and get used to them. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. If that’s what you want, do it on your own. Quit trying to drag the rest of us back with you.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:11 pmCid, you will have to do better than that. Of course I knew.
John Quincy Adams said it .
“America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.”
I dont think I need to feel ashamed of 40 +years of service to the country 27 on active duty in the Army and 15 in Civil Service,retiring twice and with 60% disability. This is the LAST time I will adress your silly little comments .
July 18th, 2006 at 5:46 pmMad Jew,
No one said you should feel ashamed of your service, on the contrary, but apparently you don’t know what the quote means. You must be over 60, so I’d expect you to be conservative, but I’d also expect you to be smarter than that by now. How many of your friends/family died in ‘nam? Can you tell me why?
Maybe a post with a quote by J. Q. Adams, and a reminder of your sworn obligation to defend the Constitution are “silly little comments”, or maybe you’re just not quite the patriot you seem to think you are. Suckling at the teet of government for 40+ years doesn’t make you a patriot, standing up for the Costitution does.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:34 pmTHESE NUTTER’S WANT ENDLESS WAR’S SO THEY CAN POISON THE PLANET WITH D.U. TO KILL US ALL.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:33 pmTo Cid-
I happen to be extremely liberal, as I believe I’ve evidenced by earlier posts to other threads. That we happen to disagree on this topic has caused you to use terms like vervbal diahrrea and call me a conservative is the mirror image of the Repug’s smearing of even their own who are not totally in lock step on everything, down to minor point of dogma. Thank you (sarcasm) for behaving as do thise we both supposedly abhor. We’d probably agree on 90% of any issue. Apparantly not this one. But I’ll sign off now before I stoop to your uncivil level of discourse.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:01 pmEric in CT has it all wrong !
Eric says : “It’s always the arabs who attack. It’s always the Arabs who break the deals they’ve signed onto.”
Eric fails to mention that it was Israel in 1956 that attacked Egypt and captured the Suez Canal, not realizing that the age of colonialism was already over. It was only when President Eisenhower steped in and threatened to cut off all aid to Israel that Israel pulled out with their tail between their legs. That is the last US President to ever stand up to the Israeli Lobby.
And Eric fails to mention that it was Israel that lainched a “Pearl Hatbor” style sneak attack against Egypt, Jordan and Syria in June 1967. They destroyed 400 Egyptian planes on the ground durring the first hour of the war, and then went on to steal the Sinai Penensula, the entire West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. They ethnically cleaned out about 1 million Palestinians. All of this was a war of agression that outraged the entire world, because International Law , which Israel agreed to, does not permit accquisition of land by means of force. It also does not allow for ethnic cleansing. It resulted in UN Resolution 242 and 338. But these resolutions were never enforced with sanctions because of the US veto at the UN.
But wait there is more ! Eric doesn’t tell us about how Israel launched another war of aggression in 1980 through 1982 in Lebanon. This time Israel’s IDF went all the way to Beruit. They thought that they could install Lebanon’e Christian militia as a Quisling type stoolpigeon government in all of Lebanon. This caused the lebanese civil war that totally destroyed Lebanon. It resulted not only in the formation of Hezbollah but, 15 years later it resulted in victory for Hezbollha and Israel again turning tail once again and withdrawing from Lebanon (all except for one small farm area). Time and time again durring that period.Israel’s soldiers were captured and exchanged with Hezbollha’s fighters.
I might ad that Israel’s invasion of Lebanon also resulted in 240 dead American Marines at the hands of Hezbollah durring the mid 1980’s when President Reagan foolishly stuck our nose into other peoples business. Did we ever see President Reagan retailate against Hezbollha for this ? Of course not ! Reagan knew he made a mistake by sending the marines over there in the first place to try to help Israel with it’s expansionists dreams.
Hezbollha has never attacked us other than that one period of time. They are not our enemy. Do we really want to make them our enemy ? Do we really want another 9-11 ? Do we really want Hezbollha suicide killers walking up to our politicians durring the 2008 election ?
But, this is exactly what William Kristol wants. It is exactly what Eric wants too. Because Eric is just like William Kristol. His loyalty is to Israel first and then America second. He wants to make Israel’s enemies our enemies, because he wants Israel to keep the land it stole. And the only way to do that is to have an even bigger war, a war against all of Islam. And of course Eric’s country (Israel) will be right on the front line heroically cheerleading and leading the way just like durring the 1991 Gulf war and the 2003 Iraq war. President Eisenhower would never have stood for it !
Eric in CT claims to be a liberal. Give me a break Eric. You are a Zionists just like William Kristol. Eric prpbably believes in human rights for every body in the entire world except Palestinians. Some liberal you are Eric !
July 19th, 2006 at 1:18 pmIf you turned a million monkeys loose on a million keybords, you would get the results listed above.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:19 pmEric in CT:
I realize how uncivil ‘facts’ can be to both ‘Lieberman liberals’ and Repuglicans. And my ‘verbal diarrhea” comment , how horrible!! If I was going to use the right-wings tactics, I would have chosen something with a little more vitrol in it. Meanwhile, you and you ilk have no problems calling the rest of us ‘anti-semetic’, and your own ‘uncivil’ complaint is right out of their playbook. Have you been reading Coulter lately or something?
July 19th, 2006 at 6:02 pmMore of you SHULD read Ann Coulter, you might learn something, IMAGINE THAT!
July 19th, 2006 at 7:06 pmMake that SHOULD I very often miss a key! {B^D
July 19th, 2006 at 7:07 pmMad Jew,
You miss more way more than that.
Coulters a moron, and a traitor, no wonder you like her.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:29 pmI’ve seen more calls for violence against Bill Kristol on this forum than for the actual terrorists. And some of the more unhinged actually try to explain away their twisted reasoning. WAY TO GO LIBS! Peace and love to you all.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:28 amFRENCH SINGLE-MIMEDNESS
OUI OUI OUI ALL THE WAY HOME
By: R.A. Hawkins
It certainly is amusing to listen to Chirac as he tells the rest of the world what they should and shouldn’t do. It matters not that we’ve noticed several times that France provided many of the munitions and weapons systems found in Iraq and I seem to remember a certain collection of mirage jets we found over there. Then there was that little ‘Oil for Food’ mess they were caught up in, right along with their buddies from Russia. And I don’t want to leave out that there were some pretty serious allegations regarding the French briefing Iraq on our battle plans.
That country has only won one war in their history. Well actually there were a few of them but they also lost those wars because they were against themselves. Pretty pathetic and not a country we should be listening to when it comes to matters beyond what is and isn’t polite at the dinner table. Wait…. I don’t think they are even up to that. Personally I think they should simply be ignored, yet here they are lecturing the world and pontificating regarding Israel’s retaliation for the kidnappings of their soldiers and the various missile attacks they’ve endured. France is so good at dealing with things like this they had riots in their own cities that brought them to their knees recently.
France has always been a good ally, but never to us. They are what is known as fair weather friends, but I think that sums up much of Europe these days. By that I mean the bigger noisemakers, which I find difficult to take seriously when they refer to anything having to do with Israel. They were the ones that made a point of creating it so just about anything they might have to say regarding Israel I’m inclined to ignore. Not too long ago Europe was up in arms because of a wall the Israelis were building to keep the Palestinians out since they were inclined to go out and paint the town red in their own special way. The European noisemakers went nuts over that fence. Then an amazing thing occurred a few months later. They went to the Israelis to see if they could help them build a fence to keep the former Warsaw Pact citizens on their own side of the border. I would like to add that they were merely an annoyance to the Europeans. They weren’t committing bombings or any such thing.
I think it was Monty Python that said the three primary tenets of the British Royal Navy were buggery, the lash and cheap rum. Somehow I don’t think of England when I read that these days. I’m more inclined to think of any other noisy European nation. I guess I would be inclined to say that their tenets would be just about the same thing. But of all of the European nations making ignorant comments I find the French leader Chirac to be by far the most detestable.
I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before but France was kind enough to build Iran’s very first submarine for them. That was years ago. The French aren’t our allies and haven’t been since we saved their butts in World War II. They are contrary to whatever we say or do and are closer to Russia and China than they are to us. Because they haven’t gotten a good grip on their own immigration problems they will eventually be even closer to Iran, or just about any taker in the Mid-East.
I think France should be thrown out of the UN Security Council, so that little piggy can just go oui, oui, oui all of the way home. But for that matter I think the UN should be thrown out of our country and forced to set up shop along the border between Israel and the Palestine, or on the Lebanese border. They should have the tallest buildings in the area so as to stop any incoming rounds. They will actually be doing something useful there other than entertaining those of us who know they are nothing but a den of spies.
It has been said of Russia that they are an enigma wrapped in a mystery. Now we see France drawing closer to all of the dictatorial regimes and those that are heading that way again and we wonder. Well no we don’t, not if we all think back a bit. They are like the little weasel that sucks up to the school bully and hopes they are now protected. Their withering ways should be a warning to all of us regarding that which is coming in this world. Until it arrives we can still laugh at their contrary arrogance though. They really are quite amusing, and fortunately on the other side of the world. I just wish that Chirac would mime his own business.
“Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact.”
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July 20th, 2006 at 2:43 pmI’m not impressed with the article
I would rather not waste my time reading Zionists propaganda.
quote …. “Now we see France drawing closer to all of the dictatorial regimes and those that are heading that way again and we wonder.”
Well …. the rest of the world knows when to jump ship. And this ship ( Israel’s expansionists dream ) is going down baby.
It is time to ask yourself why the entire world (except the US ) hates Israel. And even here in the US we are slowly realizing that we just don’t need Israel’s enemies. One 9-11 is enough for us. Thanks a lot Israel, just look what you gave us !
July 20th, 2006 at 4:09 pmWouldn’t you rather read an article based on reality ? Try this article below.
Greater Israel: Does it make sense now?
By Abid Ullah Jan
07/19/06 “Information Clearing House” — – As Israel pounds Gaza and Lebanon simultaneously, there are no signs of diplomacy to halt the conflict. Bush says, “the best way to stop the violence is to understand why the violence occurred in the first place.â€[1] Canadian prime minister says, “I think Israel’s response under the circumstances has been measured.â€[2] Above all, the U.S. vetoed Security Council’s call for a ceasefire.[3] Britain also opposed calling for ceasefire[4] and instead Defense Secretary Des Browne ordered for HMS Illustrious and HMS Bulwark to “make ready†for operations off Lebanon.[5] And Blair accused Syria and Iran.[6]
One would think that the United Nations’ demand for a cease-fire would have been the most logical and humanitarian call these diplomats could have possibly made. The present role by the U.S. and U.K. is by design. Just when it seemed like neoconservatism was ready for a quiet death, the Zionists provided neoconservatives with an opportunity to get the war they’ve always dreamed of.
Exerting influence on the Bush administration is a breeze – all it has to be persuaded to do is do nothing. That is exactly the script followed in U.K and Ottawa. Meanwhile the commentators can work the airwaves and drum home the message that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is orchestrating all the chaos across the Middle East. It will only be a matter of time before Washington quietly gives the green light for Israeli jets to go screaming towards Tehran — at least that’s the vision William Kristol, Michael Ledeen and their cohorts believe is almost within their grasp.
The Israeli justifications for the escalation of war make no sense unless looked from a broader perspective. The real aim is total dominance over the Middle East and establishing greater Israel. In the final days, the British Empire paved the way for the creation of a Zionist state. Today, the United States is facilitating the emergence of a Greater Israel at the cost of its empire.
The blame for the current Israeli war falls entirely on Israel’s friends, who approve occupation, racism, repression and deployment of inhuman methods in the service Zionists hegemonic designs. Myopic thinking and grand deception on the part of the United States and Israel in the last 13 years have led to the beginning of the present final show down in the Middle East.
For 45 years, 1948-93, Zionists’ strategic vision, brilliant planning, Western technological support, and logistical assistance helped it consolidate a state created without any moral, social, political or legal justification. Created on the basis of terrorism, the Zionist state survived through terror and tyranny.
The first American war on Iraq and the unflinching support of pro-Zionists in the U.S. and Europe made Zionists more confident. They started planning for phase two of the project towards establishing Greater Israel. They rightly concluded they had won round one. The Zionists started round two with gaining as much legitimacy as possible with the deceptive U.S.-led “peace process.†They were aware of the inconvenient fact that they cannot fool all people all the time. They were prepared for the day that is before our eyes today.
Most Arab countries gave up their goal to liberate occupied Arab territories and fell into the trap of ‘land for peace’ rhetoric. After the first war on Iraq, emotions long held in check, fatigue and hubris, came flooding out in Arab capitals. Deciding that they had had enough of war and could end the war on some face saving terms, Palestinians and other Arabs went for the deceptions of “the peace process” and “disengagement.” None of the promises made to them were kept. They permitted the Zionist state to earn some legitimacy and buy time for amassing more weapons of mass destruction and putting plans in order to materialize phase two of the Zionist plan for establishing greater Israel.
In this mishmash of delusions, appeasement and retreat, Israel rapidly lost the left over fears, came to plan false Flag operation and effectively used the Israel lobby in the United States to a total war and occupation of Iraq.[7] The earlier fear of a United Arab front has been replaced with a disdain that borders on contempt. Despite the cosmetic withdrawal from Gaza strip, Israel’s policies of apartheid and ethnic cleansing continued unabated.
For the Phase two of the Zionist totalitarian design, Israel had to build on this foundation of 13 years. It requires that Israel return to the callous, bloody and terrorist work of war and aggression. That means renouncing the deceptive plans of compromise, the fake hopes for good will, the drama of withdrawals. After more than 120 years of work, Israel is now just one false flag operation away from expanding the war to the remaining hurdles in its way of materializing the dream of a greater Israel.
Three types of visible forces are fully determined to make the Zionist dream of a greater Israel a reality. The forces with unflinching determination are: Zionists, neo-conservatives and Christian radicals.
The neoconservatives have their own Islamophobic agenda. They are looking for a total war on the Muslim world. Israel is just providing them with an excellent opportunity and excuse to bring the United States into the conflict. For example William Kristal writes in Weekly Standard (July 24, 2006):
Why is this Arab-Israeli war different from all other Arab-Israeli wars? Because it’s not an Arab-Israeli war. Most of Israel’s traditional Arab enemies have checked out of the current conflict. The governments of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia are, to say the least, indifferent to the fate of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Palestine Liberation Organization (Fatah) isn’t a player. The prime mover behind the terrorist groups who have started this war is a non-Arab state, Iran, which wasn’t involved in any of Israel’s previous wars…What’s happening in the Middle East, then, isn’t just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What’s happening is an Islamist-Israeli war.[8]
Former CIA man James Woolsey, appeared with John Gibson Today and joining in with the neocon chorus he said the U.S. need to attack Syria. He’s said that we are in World War IV since ‘03 as part of a group calling itself “Americans for Victory Over Terrorism.”[9] The group was founded by former Education Secretary William Bennett, who took part in Wednesday’s event along with Paul Bremer, a U.S. ambassador during the Reagan administration and the former chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism.
Former U.S. speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said on July 16 that he believed the United State is “in the early stages of World War III.â€[10] Endorsing his statement, the editorial of the Christian magazine Trumpet concluded: “As extreme as it might sound, this observation by Newt Gingrich is the truth.â€[11] Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell,[12] believe Israeli hegemony in the Middle East represents the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy about the coming of Jesus. A prophecy, in their view, can be self-fulfilling: it is, however, their Christian duty to expedite it.[13]
For the Christian Zionists, every rocket that flies into Israel and every bridge that is blown up in Lebanon just brings them one step closer to the end of the world. They consider it unchristian to think only of the innocent Arabs and Israelis instead of the Rapture. Instead of seeing the silver lining in every storm cloud, to Christian Zionists the storm clouds in the Middle East are the silver linings. It is, thus not surprising, to see the U.S. vetoing ceasefire resolution at the Security Council
With the aforementioned background, the fear of the region heading to a greater war is fast turning into reality. Imagine the aftermath of bombing Syria and Iran. Surrounded and squeezed by the United States and its Allies on all sides, frustrated Arab populations would turn on their aging, sell-out rulers in Jordan, Egypt, Yemen, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere. Oppressive regimes in the Muslim world would succumb to public demand, and the United States would expands its bloody occupation to other Arab states under the same pretext of fighting “Islamists†and preventing them from erecting an “Islamic empire.â€
In the phase two of Zionist totalitarian design, extermination of Arabs in large numbers will take place. Peace would break out with the leftover terrorized and pacified Arabs, and trade would blossom, with Israel occupying almost all of the Middle East and its tourists spending millions in Baghdad, Damascus, Tehran, and Beirut.
Sounds absurd? No more so, perhaps, after all this talk of the impending world war. There are three well-known and basic causes that have made unprecedented bloodshed in the Middle East inevitable. 1: The incompetent United Nations. 2. The helplessness of the whole world before the Israeli terrorism under the auspices of the U.S. 3. Muslims’ inability to change their status from divided sitting ducks to a united bloc for defending their rights or, at least, making an effective demand for real independence, justice, and equality.
Furthermore, Israel requested the United States numerous times to attack Syria and Iran.[14] “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realmâ€[15]—co-authored by Richard Perle, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Douglas Feith, Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser, and Meyrav Wurmser—portrayed Syria as the main enemy of Israel, but maintained that the road to Damascus had first to pass through Baghdad. That part of the plan has already been completed. The initial report of U.S.-Israeli plans for aggression in 2003[16] have already turned to reports about possible nuclear attacks on Iran in 2006.[17]
Keeping these realities in mind, it is hardly logical to deny—unless these trends and initiatives are effectively reversed—that an escalation of conflict and unprecedented bloodshed is imminent, and realization of the dream of a Greater Israel—however ephemeral and tyrannical—is now set to take place within a matter of years, not decades.
July 20th, 2006 at 6:14 pmWow been reading some of the posts ,it seems to me that the trueth is not out there yet you still believe goverments are for the people its simple they are not !!! wake up smell the coffee repub or dem whats the difference two sides of the same coin .
Real power lies deeper not in the public eye slowly manipulating goverments ecconamies media.
What goverment doesnt bow to the power of multinational banks and companies untouchable ?
communist communist terrorist terrorist witch witch witch wow im scared
We gave the Iraqis Saddam now weve gone back to take there country.
We sold them chemical weapons now we want them back if they find them will they get a refund?
one bewildered scotsman im disgusted at some of the ignorance from people who are obviously not stupid does America think the whole Islamic world is baying for its destruction aaaahhhhhh im raging wish i never read this pish
July 20th, 2006 at 6:26 pmThat’s right. Why don’t you all go talk to Hamas and Hizbullah and have an intelligent “progressive” conversation with them. You all are so ignorant of the desires of these groups–these TERROR groups– that I truly worry for the future of the United States. I didn’t know STUPIDITY was a Democratic value.
July 22nd, 2006 at 9:14 amWhy have we allowed ourselves to become a vassal state of Israel?
July 22nd, 2006 at 1:35 pmAppeasing contempt of the Jews
By Suzanne Fields
Monday, July 24, 2006
They’re caricatured with hooknoses and humpbacks, as sucking up a sow’s excrement, murdering children for their blood in a recipe for matzoh. They’re scorned for being weak and sneered at for being strong, for passivity and aggression, for segregating themselves and for assimilating to disappear among their secular neighbors. They’re too studious or merely stupid, obsessed with cleanliness or living in filth, hated for their industry and reviled for their sloth. They’re condemned as greedy capitalists and naive communists, as reactionaries and radicals, patriotic nationalists and secular internationalists, for being stateless and for building a thriving state.
Jews are persecuted when they don’t convert and persecuted when they do. The converted are accused of hating themselves, and the unconverted are accused of hating everybody else. Seneca, the Roman tragedian, expressed annoyance at Roman Jews for their observance of a ritual Sabbath: “This meant that Jews were wasting one-seventh of their lives doing nothing.”
Now the Jews of Israel, doing what they have to do to survive, are accused of “acting out of proportion” to the daily assault of Iranian rockets fired by Hezbollah to kill Jews in their homes. The Jews should show restraint. Restraint was what the Jews in Germany showed when the Nazis were organizing the Holocaust and the world wouldn’t believe that what was happening was happening. Restraint is what the rest of the world showed when they dismissed a crazy Austrian paperhanger and his nutty book, “Mein Kampf.” If the rest of the world was willing to ignore Hitler and his boasting and bloviating, why couldn’t the Jews?
Restraint is what you show in disputes with rational people who are willing to compromise, who will give up something in return for something. But restraint can buy time for your uncompromising enemies to enable them to plot the ambush to kill you later. During the Holocaust, certain Jewish leaders, eager to show restraint by trusting their enemies, gave up lists of Jews, a few at a time, to save others a little while longer.
Ariel Sharon, showing restraint, organized the withdrawal from Gaza as a way to achieve peace through strength, a controversial idea but nevertheless credible. You could call it aggressive restraint. All that was wrong with it was that it didn’t work and was perceived as weakness by the enemies of Israel. The only thing Israel got was more rockets on its cities, the elevation of Hamas to power and the kidnapping of its soldiers standing duty in Israeli territory. “When you keep pinching a lion,” Jeffrey Gedmin, director of the Aspen Institute in Berlin, writes in Die Welt, the German daily, “sooner or later he’ll clobber you with his paw.”
Throughout history, others have had a lot of advice for the Jews, cheap at the price. America aside, there was not much else. Anti-Semitism is often personal, and always political. The anti-Semites get away with acting on their prejudice because there’s a political environment where spin is appreciated. Anti-Zionism, the legitimate criticism of Israel politics and policy, is not always anti-Semitism. But it usually is. Once upon a time, the world’s sympathy rested with the Jews. The United Nations approved the creation of Israel; the Jews had suffered so much in the early decades of the 20th century. Israel gave the Jews a new identity, an opportunity to create a country by working the land, bringing it to flower and training men (and women) to fight back when attacked. They succeeded beyond their dreams, beyond the nightmares of their critics. When Israelis survived in the wars of 1948, 1964 and 1967, no thanks to restraint, their global supporters began to fall away. Jews were easier to feel sorry for when they couldn’t fight back.
“Nathan the Wise,” an 18th-century German play by Gotthold Lessing, depicts a flattering portrait of Moses Mendelssohn, the playwright’s famous Jewish friend. When the Sultan Saladin asks Nathan, the Moses figure, to explain his identity, Nathan replies simply: Ich bin ein Mensch — “I am a man.” This line infuriated Hannah Arendt, writing about it after the Holocaust. It characterized the Jew in a private, personal way, she said, ignoring his specific identity subject to political vulnerability. She knew what the Israelis have had to learn the hard way. For a Jew, being a man is not good enough unless it’s backed up by the power to survive.
July 22nd, 2006 at 5:22 pm[...] Car d’autres prétendent aussi à ce titre suprême, quand ils jugent bon d’entrer en guerre contre l’Iran, à la faveur du conflit actuel entre Israël et le Hezbollah. Brrr… [...]
July 22nd, 2006 at 8:05 pmOsama was right all along !
“Lebanon was the last straw. It proves that everything Bin Laden said was true: “They have come to take your land and your resources; they have come to shame your women and disgrace your culture; they have come to humiliate you in front of your children and heap ignominy on your religion.â€
Where was he wrong? ”
Lebanon’s Expendable People
By Mike Whitney
07/19/06 “Information Clearing House” — – The most shocking thing about Israel’s assault on Lebanon is the dispassionate precision with which the bombardment has been carried out. From bridge to granary, from granary to power plant, from power plant to factory, from factory to mosque, from mosque to hospital, from hospital to apartment building; each decimated with the calm disdain of a surgeon removing a cancerous tumor. We get no sense of rage in Israel’s behavior, just the calculated savagery of men who see their duty as systematically decapitating an entire civilization and leaving it in ruins.
The destruction of Lebanon is the work of robots not men; unfeeling, remorseless bundles of skin and bone.
No one could have done what these men did in just seven days and be a part of the same human family as you and I.
So far, there is no indication that the captured Israeli soldiers have been hurt or mistreated. The leveling of a once-bustling and prosperous metropolis has been executed while the victims are still safely tucked away in some unknown hiding place. There’s no purpose for Israel’s rampage, the terms for release could have been negotiated in a “prisoner swap†as they have many times before. The bombing is purely a gratuitous act of violence intended to destroy a nation that just recovered from 18 years of Israeli occupation. Now Lebanon has been returned to the Stone Age.
Why?
Have the soldiers been tortured or abused as they would have been in American or Israeli care?
I hope not. I hope they are being treated well. I hope they are set free and allowed to walk southward through the scattered-rubble and body parts so they can appreciate what their leaders have done in their names. I hope they are released so that Hezbollah can claim a moral victory over the forces of inhumanity and cynicism that have infected the seats of government in Tel Aviv and Washington.
Whatever chance there may have been for peace is gone now. We have to be realistic. The next generation of Muslims will despise us and everything we stand for. No capital or city will be safe. The US and Israel are sowing dragon’s teeth throughout the Middle East and their bloody harvest will come in the decades ahead. Cheney was right, this war could last 50 years and not end in our lifetime.
Lebanon was the last straw. It proves that everything Bin Laden said was true: “They have come to take your land and your resources; they have come to shame your women and disgrace your culture; they have come to humiliate you in front of your children and heap ignominy on your religion.â€
Where was he wrong?
Author and writer Pepe Escobar said it best: “The effect of the Israeli bombing barrage will be to draw newer, thicker waves of moderate Muslims toward political-and radical–Islam. The perception in the Arab street- as well as for most of the world’s 1.4 billion Muslims-has been reinforced: the U.S./Israel axis seems to hold a license to kill Arabs with impunity.†(Pepe Escobar, “Leviathan Run Amok†Asia Times)
Escobar’s right. The lives of Muslims mean nothing. They’ve become the “expendable†people whose security simply doesn’t matter. Their wholesale slaughter appears regularly on the evening news while heart-wrenching stories are spun about the suffering of Israeli fathers and mothers who lost loved ones in retaliatory attacks.
Don’t Muslims have mothers and fathers? Is it so important to demonize them that they must be stripped of every trace of humanity including parents?
Where will these “expendable†people go as the world’s resources continue to dry up and their homelands are increasingly besieged?
Indonesia, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan; where will they all go? Will they be shunted off to refugee camps or live as prisoners in their own land; be shot like dogs or stand and fight until the end?
How many will chose to join the growing ranks of jihadis and resistance groups plotting and planning to strike back in any way they can? How many will figure that it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees?
Lebanon has paved the way for a century of war. It’s been ravaged and its people evacuated to settle scores with Hezbollah and create a buffer zone on Israel’s northern flank. The ruined lives are of no consequence. The city will be rebuilt by loans from the World Bank and IMF and the work will be contracted by Halliburton and Bechtel. We’ve seen it all before; the utter destruction of a society so that it can be placed in the hands of the global corporatists. Lebanon will be no exception.
Now that Israel’s northern flank has been “pacified†Olmert can turn his eyes eastward towards Damascus where the ophthalmologist Bashar Al-Assad will have to be toppled to secure pipeline routes from northern Iraq to Haifa. That way Israel will become a major player in this century’s resource wars and a leader in the region.
The geopolitical chess match is unfolding just as it was written years ago by neoconservatives who were dismissed at the time as radicals and lunatics. No one is laughing now. The 12 villagers who were massacred in Srifa yesterday by Israeli bombs aren’t laughing nor are the parents of the 11 children who were vaporized by an Israeli missile while taking a swim in a canal at Oasmia refugee camp.
This is the calculus of human misery; the deliberate killing of innocent people to achieve political objectives. It is no different than terrorism. Bush and Olmert are two men who have absolute confidence in the ability of violence to shape behavior. They are not concerned about the rivers of blood that feed their dreams. After all, those people are “expendable.â€
July 24th, 2006 at 2:39 pm“Rambo” Dave my tuchas. Brain dead Dave is more like it.
July 26th, 2006 at 10:27 am“we are doing it right now, but you cant tell, can ?”… looks like the shit is hitting the fan my dear “suicidal” pals. But your not dragging anyone with you, your alone in doing this. and you will pay
July 29th, 2006 at 9:04 pmThe Moral Lesson of Hiroshima
by John Lewis (April 29, 2006)
On August 6, 1945 the American Air Force incinerated Hiroshima, Japan with an atomic bomb. On August 9 Nagasaki was obliterated. The fireballs killed some 175,000 people. They followed months of horror, when American airplanes firebombed civilians and reduced cities to rubble. Facing extermination, the Japanese surrendered unconditionally. The invasion of Japan was cancelled, and countless American lives were saved. The Japanese accepted military occupation, embraced a constitutional government, and renounced war permanently. The effects were so beneficent, so wide-ranging and so long-term, that the bombings must be ranked among the most moral acts ever committed.
The bombings have been called many things-but moral? The purpose of morality, wrote Ayn Rand, is not to suffer and die, but to prosper and live.
How can death on such a scale be considered moral?
The answer begins with Japanese culture. World War II in the Pacific was launched by a nation that esteemed everything hostile to human life.
Japan’s religious-political philosophy held the emperor as a god, subordinated the individual to the state, elevated ritual over rational thought, and adopted suicide as a path to honor. This was truly a Morality of Death. It had gripped Japanese society for three generations. Japan’s war with Russia had ended in 1905 with a negotiated treaty, which left Japan’s militaristic culture intact. The motivations for war were emboldened, and the next generation broke the treaty by attacking Manchuria in 1931 (which was not caused by the oil embargo of 1941).
It was after Japan attacked America that America waged war against Japan-a proper moral response to the violence Japan had initiated. Despite three and a half years of slaughter, surrender was not at hand in mid-1945. Over six million Japanese were still in Asia. Some 12,000 Americans had died on Okinawa alone. Many Japanese leaders hoped to kill enough Americans during an invasion to convince them that the cost was too high. A relentless “Die for the Emperor” propaganda campaign had motivated many Japanese civilians to fight to the death. Volunteers lined up for kamikaze “Divine Wind” suicide missions. Hope of victory kept the Japanese cause alive, until hopeless prostration before American air attacks made the abject renunciation of all war the only alternative to suicide. The Japanese had to choose between the morality of death, and the morality of life.
The bombings marked America’s total victory over a militaristic culture that had murdered millions. To return an entire nation to morality, the Japanese had to be shown the literal meaning of the war they had waged against others. The abstraction “war,” the propaganda of their leaders, their twisted samurai “honor,” their desire to die for the emperor-all of it had to be given concrete form, and thrown in their faces. This is what firebombing Japanese cities accomplished. It showed the Japanese that “this”-point to burning buildings, screaming children scarred unmercifully, piles of corpses, the promise of starvation-”this is what you have done to others. Now it has come for you. Give it up, or die.” This was the only way to show them the true nature of their philosophy, and to beat the truth of the defeat into them.
Yes, Japan was beaten in July of 1945-but had not surrendered. A defeat is a fact; an aggressor’s ability to fight effectively is destroyed.
Surrender is a decision, by the political leadership and the dominant voices in the culture, to recognize the fact of defeat. Surrender is an admission of impotence, the collapse of all hope for victory, and the permanent renunciation of aggression. Such recognition of reality is the first step towards a return to morality. Under the shock of defeat, a stunned silence results. Military officers no longer plan for victory; women no longer bear children for the Reich; young boys no longer play samurai and dream of dying for the emperor-children no longer memorize sword verses from the Koran and pledge themselves to jihad.
To achieve this, the victor must be intransigent. He does not accept terms; he demands prostrate surrender, or death, for everyone if necessary.
Had the United States negotiated in 1945, Japanese troops would have returned to a homeland free of foreign control, met by civilians who had not confronted defeat, under the same leaders who had taken them to war. A negotiated peace would have failed to discredit the ideology of war, and would have left the motivations for the next war intact. We might have fought the Japanese Empire again, twenty years later. Fortunately, the Americans were in no mind to compromise.
President Truman demonstrated his willingness to bomb the Japanese out of existence if they did not surrender. The Potsdam Declaration of July 26, 1945 is stark: “The result of the futile and senseless German resistance to the might of the aroused free peoples of the world stands forth in awful clarity as an example to the people of Japan . . . Following are our terms.
We will not deviate from them. There are no alternatives. We shall brook no delay . . . We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces . . . The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.”
The approach worked brilliantly. After the bombs, the Japanese chose wisely.
The method was brutally violent, as it had to be-because the war unleashed by Japan was brutally violent, and only a brutal action could demonstrate its nature. To have shielded Japanese citizens from the meaning of their own actions-the Rape of Nanking and the Bataan Death March-would have been a massive act of dishonesty. It would have left the Japanese unable to reject military aggression the next time it was offered as an elixir of glory.
After the war, many returning Japanese troops were welcomed by their countrymen not as heroes, but with derision. The imperial cause was recognized as bankrupt, and the actions of its soldiers worthy of contempt.
Forced to confront the reality of what they had done, a sense of morality had returned to Japan.
There can be no higher moral action by a nation than to destroy an aggressive dictatorship, to permanently discredit the enemy’s ideology, to stand guard while a replacement is crafted, and then to greet new friends on proper terms. Let those who today march for peace in Germany and Japan admit that their grandparents once marched as passionately for war, and that only total defeat could force them to re-think their place in the world and offer their children something better. Let them thank heaven-the United States-for the bomb.
Some did just that. Hisatsune Sakomizu, chief cabinet secretary of Japan, said after the war: “The atomic bomb was a golden opportunity given by Heaven for Japan to end the war.” He wanted to look like a peaceful man-which became a sensible position only after the Americans had won.
Okura Kimmochi, president of the Technological Research Mobilization Office, wrote before the surrender: “I think it is better for our country to suffer a total defeat than to win total victory . . . in the case of Japan’s total defeat, the armed forces would be abolished, but the Japanese people will rise to the occasion during the next several decades to reform themselves into a truly splendid people . . . the great humiliation [the bomb] is nothing but an admonition administered by Heaven to our country.” But let him thank the American people-not heaven-for it was they who made the choice between the morality of life and the morality of death inescapable.
Americans should be immensely proud of the bomb. It ended a war that had enslaved a continent to a religious-military ideology of slavery and death.
There is no room on earth for this system, its ideas and its advocates.
It took a country that values this world to bomb this system into extinction.
For the Americans to do so while refusing to sacrifice their own troops to save the lives of enemy civilians was a sublimely moral action. This destroyed the foundations of the war, and allowed the Japanese to rebuild their culture along with their cities, as prosperous inhabitants of the earth. Were it true that total victory today creates new attackers tomorrow, we would now be fighting Japanese suicide bombers, while North Korea-where the American army did not impose its will-would be peaceful and prosperous. The facts are otherwise. The need for total victory over the morality of death has never been clearer.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:52 amThe fascinating thing is that the only countries this administration wants to go to war with are the little guys. Guys who we can kick around. We won the Cold War without one missle being fired. But that lesson seems to be lost on this administration.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:24 pmBill Kristol is another of the “Drugstore Cowboys” who are way too anxious to involve the U.S. in ridiculous wars that waste American lives and billions of dollars. The Bush Administration is way too easily influenced by these neocons who sit on their comfortable couches recommending death and destruction.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:56 pmIt is amazing what a bunch super racists and bigots liberals are.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:55 pmIf anyone understands American Foreign Policy, they will know that there will never be some peaceful, utopian period. The United States has been, and always will be, an “expanded commercial empire”. I didnt borrow that from one of these “warmongering neocons”, but rather, the Federalist Papers, specifically Paper 1, by Hamilton. There has never been an Isolationist period of history in America. We speak to isolationism because it is popular sentiment in the people. However, the government, specifically the President, is sworn to uphold the Constitution. He is not, therefore, to be a “Steward of the People.” As to the notion that we won the cold war without a missile being fired, Id like to harken that poster to the Vietnam and Korea conflicts. We had to fight. We still have to fight.
December 7th, 2006 at 3:03 pmWhat do you expect a Jew to say? More dead Arabs has got to be giving him a hard-on.
December 15th, 2006 at 9:46 pm