Is this World War III, IV, or V?
By on Jul 17th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
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July 17th, 2006 at 1:16 pmCall it “The War Promoted by the Bunch of Greedy Evil Idiots Founders of the PNAC”, and everybody would remember exactly.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:18 pmIt’s a self fulfilling prophecy. It will become such a war if the current actions of the Bush administration continue. As long as Bush refuses to support a ceasefire, and fails to work actively towards one, the situation will worsen.
Bush is content, perhaps even pleased, to see Israel draw Syria and Iran into a wider conflict. The bombing will start just in time for the midterm elections.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Bush. He is responsible for the trouble in the middle east right now. He sought this, and planned for it.
sean McCormick, just now, announcing Rice’s visit to the mideast. “What you don’t want to do is come right back here.” Agreed, but a short term solution is necessary… cease fire… prior to a long term one. And guess what, you stupid ass? It might take more than one visit.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:19 pmIf Syria and Iran are attacked by Bush and Israel, then it will be officially WWIII, but the Neocons make the claim that the “Cold War” with Soviet Union was WWIII, so this would be WWIV to them!
July 17th, 2006 at 1:21 pmI have personally won World Wars III, IV and V while sitting behind my computer. So that means we’re on to World War VI now. Except my joystick is wearing out.
BAM!! POW!! ZAP!! Hahahahaha, got another terrorist!
July 17th, 2006 at 1:22 pm#4 – What would we call it if Iran attacks Israel?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:22 pmChase…
We would call it part of Bush’s plan.
This is Bush’s War. That’s the best name for it.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:24 pmNot surprising they can’t decide, since the decade’s nearly over and I’ve never heard a way to refer to it as we did the 90’s, 80’s, etc.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:25 pmIf only the zionists had stayed home in europe…
July 17th, 2006 at 1:25 pmIf only the U.S.A. had let the Iranians pick their own leaders…
If only America would set the example in this world…
What’s the difference what #?, it will most likely be the last one
July 17th, 2006 at 1:26 pm#7 – So no matter what happens, it’s “Bush’s fault” and any Islamic aggression is understanable and free from critique?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:27 pmPost 6 > Iran will NOT attack Israel first, but I am sure they will be blamed for starting it!
July 17th, 2006 at 1:29 pmOkay folks, this is a MUST read for every true progressive. I dare any conservative to link to this, and then I want to hear if they have the actual gall to slam it.
How Long Must This Go On
A. Alexander, July 16th, 2006
When will we learn? How long will the people of the world continue to allow their rulers to divide us by nation, religion, color, and wealth? How long must the insanity continue before we realize that everyone has more in common than not, and that we have all been the useful dupes of the moneyed and powerful?
How long must this go on?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:31 pmAnd yes, he is DIRECTLY responsible for fostering Islamic extremism.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:33 pmSEIXON RULES !
July 17th, 2006 at 1:34 pmMoving Isreal to america could sort all this mess out I agree with that Iranian president
July 17th, 2006 at 1:35 pmYou know,
all you have to do is look at the destruction and the # of people killed in both countries, to understand who is the Agressor.
Hizbollah started it. However, Israel’s use of force has been completely over the top.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:36 pmPost 15 > Seixon is sleeping today it seems?!
July 17th, 2006 at 1:36 pmWorld War___?…..just make sure it is simple enough to write in the dirt with a stick
July 17th, 2006 at 1:39 pm#11, Chase – There are actions we could have taken to help foster stability in the region. Instead, we went on in like outlaw cowboys, insisting that our way of life MUST be spread and adopted by all countries in the region essentially at gun-point (these groups don’t see it the same way you do when Bush says “democracy will spread throughout the middle east”). This, in turn, continued to fuel the perception that we are “against” Islam and want to destroy their way of life. What did this do? It helped to strengthen radical terrorist groups.
As Americans, we can vote our leaders in. We can’t “vote away” terrorist groups. Had we elected a leader with more restraint and diplomatic prowess, we may have been able to neutralize a lot of what is happening in the middle east before it started. Instead, we have added fuel to the fire. Do I blame terror groups for what is happening? Of course, SMARTASS. But I also blame the Bush administration for policies that have helped strengthen and NOT WEAKEN terrorist activities. And Bush’s policies are something we COULD have avoided.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:39 pmAlso, Israel is a big liability to us.
It costs us: $10-15 billion a year and our support for Israel increases Anti American sentiment, which leads to more Alqaeda attacks and more Alqaeda recruits.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:41 pmWhat force would be justified? Or should Israel just try to wipe out the militant organization?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:42 pmIt’s an honest question, I’m not attacking. I just don’t see a good way of ending this. Hezbollah will continue the killing & kidnapping, the baiting of the Israelis. Did anyone else catch the Syrian ambassador on CNN say that it’s perfectly fine for Hezbollah and Hamas to kill & kidnap Israeli soldiers? That he didn’t understand the agression because Israel had traded prisoners before? So I guess Israel should give in and release 400 Pakistanis for the 1 Israeli solder hostage.
I just can’t blame Israel so much for this. I can understand their reaction. I think they’re using restraint, even. They’ve dropped pamphlets in Lebanon before attacking, letting people know they need to get out. They’re targetting Hezbollah terrorists. Hezbollah target civilians. There was an effective cease fire with Hezbollah until they murdered Israeli troops on Israeli soil and then took hostages too, and then had the nerve to demand negotiations for their return!
21. It is wonderful that FINALLY these things about Israel are seeing some light.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:42 pm#7 – So no matter what happens, it’s “Bush’s fault†and any Islamic aggression is understanable and free from critique?
Comment by Chase
If you replace “arab” with “american” then yes we would ALL agree that fighting would be understandable.
Israel is not on the verge of giving up its land grab and so the arabs have no reason to justifiy giving up on fighting… just like the Irish never gave up the fighting until Britian started acting in good faith.
Israel is the source of all the fighting… the ball is in THEIR court to act. When is Israel going to recognize their own mistakes? When are they going to admit to their sins? IF they were to do this and the arabs STILL kept fighting … well that would be a different matter.
At the same time why cant the muslims find a Ghandi amongst them? Isnt there someone that is willing to resist Israel through peace?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:44 pmsounds like the superbowl is all grown up now, favorite passtime of the sociopathic class: world war XXXIX, war against the memory of ever having been human and alive
July 17th, 2006 at 1:45 pmWhat would we call it if Iran attacks Israel?
Comment by Chase — July 17, 2006 @ 1:22 pm
Let me go out on a limb here and venture a wild guess.
Iran attacked Israel.
Wheww, thanks Chase, I would have never figured that one out without your insightful post.
/sarc on
July 17th, 2006 at 1:45 pmIf There is an Antichrist, His Name is Karl Rove
July 17th, 2006 at 1:46 pmA. Alexander, July 15th, 2006
It is nearly impossible to imagine a more vile or repugnant human being alive today, than is Karl Rove. He has, without any sense of remorse or conscience, made John McCain’s suffering at the Hanoi Hilton into cause to consider the Senator insane; undermined the patriotism of amputee Vietnam Veteran, Max Cleland, and made him out to be an “America hater”; through the employment of Swift Boaters, made John Kerry’s extremely heroic service to country into something to be ashamed; intimated that former Texas Governor, Ann Richard’s, campaign was nothing more than a gaggle of lesbian lovers; devised the strategy by which Bush was able to lie America to war in Iraq; and even committed treason by helping to out undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame. Yet, through all Rove’s most disgusting and amoral behavior and actions, he manages to engender something akin to idol worship. It begs the question: could Karl Rove be the Antichrist?
#22 Where were they suppose to go?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:47 pmWhat land grab?
July 17th, 2006 at 1:48 pmGAO reported, a poll conducted by the International Republican Institute in March 2006 found that over half of the Iraqi people “thought Iraq was heading in the wrong direction. Moreover, the poll reports that over the last year, growing numbers believe that the security situation, the provision of electricity, the prevalence of corruption, and the state of the economy worsened.”
–Heckuva Job George
July 17th, 2006 at 1:49 pmWhat land grab?
Comment by Wilco
The one where there was NO Israel .. and then the zionists used human trafficing into palastine and terrorist bombing of the british to create the “Israel” that didnt exist for 2000 years… THAT land grab… they one where they marched thousands and thousands of arabs out of their homes and into Jordan … THAT land grab. THAT land grab has NEVER been solved… America acts like it never happened… like there has been an Israel for 2000 years when it is actually only about 60 years old.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:51 pmSo no matter what happens, it’s “Bush’s fault†and any Islamic aggression is understanable and free from critique?
Comment by Chase
Yeah. I mean HELL YEAH its his fault. This war in Iraq is a total miscalulation of major proportions. Had we concentrated our resources on Afganistan and Osama, that part of the world would be much safer. Taking out Saddam Hussain removed the one major enemy Iran had, and tipped the balance of power to the Iranian Mullahs.
Then we get bogged down with nation building and “spreading democracy” while removing the government, army, police, and infrastructure leaving a void—-something no real leader has done in the past two hundred years. Now we are so bogged down and weakened, our military resources thin or wornout, we can’t fight our way out of a wet paper bag—-and North Korea, Iran and the Islamic extremists know it.
You need to get a clue, pal.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:52 pmWell, for conservatives war only happens in the movies (and on ‘24′), so it really doesn’t matter which sequel this is.
July 17th, 2006 at 1:57 pm.
Hezbollah target civilians. There was an effective cease fire with Hezbollah until they murdered Israeli troops on Israeli soil and then took hostages too, and then had the nerve to demand negotiations for their return!
You mean Like in 1982 when we sent troops into Beirut and 241 of them got killed and Reagan re-deployed [withdrew] the troops?
I am so happy that you know your history!
July 17th, 2006 at 1:57 pm/sarc on
Comment by Gerald Gibson — July 17, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!! The absolute root to most of the ills of the middle east, the other is OIL.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:02 pmSo no matter what happens, it’s “Bush’s fault†and any Islamic aggression is understanable and free from critique?
Comment by Chase
Fault??? WTF are you talking about?
These things are fomented by political elites.
the 1982 invasion of Lebanon was accompanied by deceit at the highest political levels. Harkarbi cites misleading statements to the cabinet by Ariel Sharon and Begin, inaccurate announcements by Israel’s military spokesmen and the Likud government’s gross exaggeration of terrorist acts conducted from Lebanon.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:04 pmHistory will record this period as one of the “Oil Wars.” The “cold war” and these wars will never be known as World War anything in spite of moronic conservative whining. World Wars happen when countries invade other countries en masse. The Isralie-Palestinian war is a regional conflict and the “War on Terror” is a police action. Conservatives are simply tarnishing the history of these World Wars and the people who fought them by conflating this terrorism problem into a World War. They’re disgusting and uninformed.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:07 pmAre you suggesting that they should state Israel shouldn’t exist? I’m not understanding. And can’t one also argue the land was originally grabbed from the Jews? Or whoever was there before them? It’s not as though the Brits kicked out a government to put Israel in power. Or am I wrong? I’m mostly going on “truthiness” here, but I do like books. Especially ones with pretty pictures. And so wouldn’t Lebanon, Syria, etc, all be “land grabs?” since they didn’t exist 70 years ago? (At least I think it was them, my world war history knowledge isn’t so good anymore)
July 17th, 2006 at 2:07 pmI think I might be rambling now.
I just don’t think Israel doing anything but leaving or blowing up would appease Hezbollah or Hamas. This is not a new conflict. This didn’t start with the nation of Israel. It started well before then.
Defence Minister Rabin admitted in the Knesset that during the eleven-month ceasefire preceding the war, Israel’s northern settlements had been attacked only twice and that during this period Israel had suffered a total of two killed and six wounded from terrorist attacks. These attacks had been preceded by Israeli strikes in response to the planting of a bomb on a bus and the attack on Shlomo Argov.
Hey chase, look a clue!!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:08 pmI’ll tell you what is definitely Bush’s fault. When his administration took over, they established a policy of not talking with Hamas or Hezbolla and they insulted Jordan and Syria. Now, they need Jordan and Syria to be part of this process and they have no bargaining power. The Bush foreign policy has been an unmitigated disaster and I defy any Bush supporter to cite anything positive about it at all.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:09 pmIsnt there someone that is willing to resist Israel through peace?
Comment by Gerald Gibson
I think one of them was Muhammad Anwar as-Sadat, president of Egypt. He was assinated by military members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad which just goes to show you how risky it is to speak out against violence and the hatred of Israel in the Islamic world.
I won’t be popular here for saying it, but I think its just tough shit for Hamas and Hezbollah. I hope they get their jihaded asses kicked. I haven’t forgotten they killed over 241Marines and servicemen in Lebanon in 1983, and went unpunished for it by the conservative hero, President Reagan.
For me, its payback, baby, by the IDF!!!!!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:11 pmThis is not a new conflict. This didn’t start with the nation of Israel. It started well before then.
——————
This started before the creation of the United States, yet here we are fighting ancient battles.
Anyone else see a problem with this war being older than our country?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:14 pmHow Long Must This Go On
This is a re-post in hopes you will link to it and read its message, if you happen to care about humanity at all.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:15 pmUm, Summerbreeze, I don’t remember writing about a decades-long cease fire. There were many years of peace between Hezbollah and Israel until now. So what did Israel do this time to deserve the murder of its citizens? What did those men do to deserve their deaths? Everyone here seems to want to blame Israel for the deaths of their own people. How is Hezbollah the good guys?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:16 pmIsnt there someone that is willing to resist Israel through peace?
Wars always bring peace dint ya know?
/sarc on
July 17th, 2006 at 2:18 pm# 18.
Seixon never sleeps.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:18 pmI haven’t forgotten they killed over 241Marines and servicemen in Lebanon in 1983, and went unpunished for it by the conservative hero, President Reagan.
For me, its payback, baby, by the IDF!!!!!
Comment by Joe Sixpack — July 17, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
A friend of mine, who is retired air force and spent most of his career overseas, truly believes that if military bases were hit on 9/11 instead of civillians there would not have been any outcry for retribution. History proves him correct!!!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:19 pm42. Since the Arab Awakening in the early part of the 20th century. It started with the ousting of the Turks by western forces. It started with the birth of Israel a little over 60 years ago. That and the damn oil.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:19 pm# 18.
Seixon never sleeps.
no wonder it is insane
July 17th, 2006 at 2:21 pmSo what should Israel have done? It seems everyone here is highly critical of their actions. Personally, I don’t know what else they should’ve done, but what they have done is tragic. I’d be thrilled with no blood spilled. So what do people here suggest?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:21 pmComment by Wilco
……………………….
Land grabs are where a people that used to NOT live somewhere moves there in mass against the will of the people that ALREADY lived there… The brits did NOT land grab the middle east… they segmented the people that ALREADY lived there….
AND yes someone DID land grab israel from the jews …. ROMANS DID … so the zionists should take it up with the Romans….oops Romans are long gone…
July 17th, 2006 at 2:22 pmRep. Christopher Shays, the Republican Chairman of the Subcommittee that heard testimony on the [GAO] report, remarked in a prepared statement, “I am deeply concerned we will lose the war in Iraq here at home.”
And here I am thinking Iraq was a mission of freedom, democracy, regime change, nation building and peace.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:24 pmSo what should Israel have done? It seems everyone here is highly critical of their actions. Personally, I don’t know what else they should’ve done, but what they have done is tragic. I’d be thrilled with no blood spilled. So what do people here suggest?
Comment by Wilco
Isreal should have admitted their sin a long time ago … instead they built settlements.
They are naturally angry about Being attacked… that is normal.
They should address their sins first
July 17th, 2006 at 2:26 pmSo the Jews don’t have a right of return?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:26 pmI don’t have answers. Just questions. It’s beginning to look like this isn’t the best place to find the answers on this subject? I don’t recall the Jews you’re all so angry with creating Israel.
Rep. Christopher Shays, the Republican Chairman of the Subcommittee that heard testimony on the [GAO] report, remarked in a prepared statement, “I am deeply concerned we will lose the war in Iraq here at home.â€
Comment by Cool Breeze
Hey, Cool, if this was 2012, he and the repugs would be saying the same thing.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if a democrat was in office today, we would hear him saying, “Bush was winning in Iraq, until the democrats took over and began losing it.”
Shalom. Time for a beer.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:30 pmWilco – Just angry about HOW Israel was created. By stomping on the Palestines. Their crimes? Why were the Palestinians punished for the Holocaust????
July 17th, 2006 at 2:31 pmSo Israel should say, “Hey, I know you killed our people without provocation, but we’re sorry. Please forgive us.”
July 17th, 2006 at 2:34 pmI don’t know I’d really take them for the touchy-feely type. Do you really think they murder and kidnap men, women & children because the Jews hurt their feelings?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if a democrat was in office today, we would hear him saying, “Bush was winning in Iraq, until the democrats took over and began losing it.â€
I see no difference, personally, today, between a democrat and a republican.
It’s just standard political claptrap.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:36 pmexample;
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if a Reoublican was in office today, we would hear him saying, “Gore was winning in Iraq, until the Republican took over and began losing it.â€
So Israel should say, “Hey, I know you killed our people without provocation, but we’re sorry. Please forgive us.â€
What makes you think it wasn’t provocated?
Because O’Reilly said so? Because you read it on the News?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:38 pm“APRIL 19, 2004: Bob Woodward reveals CIA Director George Tenet said there was a “slam dunk case†against Iraq”
CAN THIS ENTRY IN THE TP TIMELINE BE UPDATED WITH THE NEW SUSKIND INFO? Thanks.
“APRIL 19, 2004: Bob Woodward CLAIMS CIA Director George Tenet said there was a “slam dunk case†against Iraq”
“June, 2006: Author Ron Suskind (”The One-Percent Doctrine”) reports that Tenet and others at that meeting have no recollection of ever using that phrase.”
July 17th, 2006 at 2:38 pm#57
July 17th, 2006 at 2:39 pmThe point is that neither side is innocent. I hate these people that defend Israel and the Palestinians and put their side above the other. They have both killed needlessly. They have both gone back on promises for peace. They both kill in the name of the same god. They both don’t want peace they want the other side destroyed. In my opinion they are both idiotic and they both have blood on their hands that will never come off. All for what?
the 1982 invasion of Lebanon was accompanied by deceit at the highest political levels. Harkarbi cites misleading statements to the cabinet by Ariel Sharon and Begin, inaccurate announcements by Israel’s military spokesmen and the Likud government’s gross exaggeration of terrorist acts
Nah Israel would never provoke an invasion…..
July 17th, 2006 at 2:40 pmI am in no way arguing in favor of Israel. Except in this situation. I’m just trying to keep my thoughts on this one situation. If people are blaming Israel, why? What did they do to deserve being murdered? What should they have done instead of targeting Hezbollah strongholds?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:40 pmAnd why isn’t anyone coming out against Hezbollah? That just doesn’t make sense to me. Gerald seems to think Israel should apologize for making Hezbollah cross into Israel and kill and hold hostage Israelis. I don’t think we’d have this conversation if they’d killed American soldiers on American soil.
Cool Breeze, it’s provoked. Unless you were making a joke.
“I see no difference, personally, today, between a democrat and a republican.”
H’yeah, no difference.
• Clinton used Carter’s FEMA to evacuate 2.5 million Floridians from a hurricane.
• Bush did the same thing, as we all saw. No difference!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:41 pmWilco – what would you do if a home you have been in for generations was suddenly not yours anymore?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:41 pmI would certainly, generations later, murder people who had nothing to do with it.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:43 pmI see no difference, personally, today, between a democrat and a republican.â€
H’yeah, no difference.
• Clinton used Carter’s FEMA to evacuate 2.5 million Floridians from a hurricane.
• Bush did the same thing, as we all saw. No difference!
Today is not ‘yesterday’
July 17th, 2006 at 2:44 pmLebanon is a country of religous diversity and freedom. It is approximately 40% Christian and 55% Muslim.
At the current time the Lebanese armed forces have not yet recovered from Syria’s occupation of the country. Foreign agents (Hezbollah) occupying southern Lebanon are actually better armed and better equipped than Lebanese forces.
As a result of Israeli attacks on its infrastructure, Lebanon is losing ground in its efforts to control its own territory. The Israeli attacks are actually serving to assist Hezbollah which appears to receive arms and training from Iran and Syria and is not a Lebanese force.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:44 pmSo Israel should say, “Hey, I know you killed our people without provocation, but we’re sorry. Please forgive us.â€
I don’t know I’d really take them for the touchy-feely type. Do you really think they murder and kidnap men, women & children because the Jews hurt their feelings?
Comment by Wilco
Right there in bold is the issue with your thinking … Israel has been provoking them for 60 years straight. How do you think all those arab men, women, and children got into Israeli prisons? They bought a ticket? Nope. Israel kidnapped them and put them there.
Israel should NOT just sit there and take it as you are trying suggest I am saying … Israel SHOULD secure their border and then take DRASTIC actions for peace… i.e. remove ALL settlements THIS YEAR… and then go to the UN and make an official statement appoligizing for the past 60 years and asking the arabs to come back the UN to come up with a GRAND TREATY that brings peace between ARABS and Israelis…
July 17th, 2006 at 2:45 pm” If people are blaming Israel, why?”
• Continued refusal to withdraw to pre-1967 borders.
• Murdering something like 4,000 Palestinians, compared to something like 80 Israelis killed (prior to Israel’s attack on Gaza, Lebanon). Fisk, Chomsky, and others report 5x disparity in death toll.
• Israel just committed major warcrime by bombing out Gaza (and now Lebanese) power stations, a clear violation of the Geneva Accords.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:46 pmI would certainly, generations later, murder people who had nothing to do with it.
Comment by Wilco
Areil Sharon is one of the originals… he is still alive … sorta… this is not the American Indians vs European Americans… this is just since WWII.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:49 pmYou are absolutely contradicting yourself by first saying Israel had it coming, then saying they should secure their borders.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:49 pmAgain, what did those men have to do with previous Israeli actions? How can people here justify murder of innocents?!
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1637366.htm
July 17th, 2006 at 2:50 pmPope condemns Israel-Lebanon attacks
16 Jul 2006 11:20:28 GMT
Source: Reuters
INTROD, Italy, July 16 (Reuters) – Pope Benedict on Sunday condemned “terrorist” acts and reprisals in Lebanon and Israel, saying the violence was unjustifiable.
“Today is not ‘yesterday’ –Cool Breeze
I see. So your claim is that the Dem party has changed in the last ten years. If that’s your argument, then you have yet to make it. How have they changed?
• Dem attempts to raise minimum wage, to provide for veterans, to provide armor for soldiers, to provide FAIR tax relief, to keep education costs low, and to require the Bush to follow U.S. law — all blocked by Rapepublican Congress. That Congress has lowest approval rating in something like 50 years.
• Yep, no difference!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:50 pmGerald seems to think Israel should apologize for making Hezbollah cross into Israel and kill and hold hostage Israelis. I don’t think we’d have this conversation if they’d killed American soldiers on American soil.
Comment by Wilco
Thats just it… it is not Israeli soil … the Golan Heights belong to Syria … parts of Lebanon are still being held by Israel… the West Bank and much of what is Israel today ..well all of it actually… was inhabited by arabs before WWII.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:51 pmHow can people here justify murder of innocents?!
I dunno how does Bush and Cheney justify those 48,000 thousand civilians killed in Iraq?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:52 pm“Today is not ‘yesterday’ –Cool Breeze
I guess you forget the fact,Paul, that the neo-cons are originally Democrats?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:54 pm#20 – Real civil. I have one question:
Is the way of life you deride “democracy”? Freedom of association? Some semblance of free speech?
That certainly isn’t what you mean.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:54 pmSay Paul wasn’t Condi also a democrat?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:55 pmGerald – Israel is not on the verge of giving up its land grab and so the arabs have no reason to justifiy giving up on fighting… just like the Irish never gave up the fighting until Britian started acting in good faith.
Is the so-called Israeli land grab anything like the arab land grab in 1967?
I think your facts are confused.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:55 pmSo the Jews don’t have a right of return?
Comment by Wilco
Not any more… the Roman empire disappeared along time ago. The Eurpean/Jews that survived the Holocaust should have gotten half of Germany or all of it… OR came to America where we would have protected them in PEACE.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:55 pmOk, so the men killed were active alongside Sharon?
July 17th, 2006 at 2:56 pmBecause they’re the ones killed. Let’s please keep that straight.
So Gerald, are you arguing that Hezbollah have some sort of statutory timeline within which it’s ok for them to kill indiscriminately (since this isn’t like native americans, etc.)?
And so many people defending Hezbollah. Wow.
Rockefeller, a Republican, was the son of former Arkansas Gov. Winthrop Rockefeller, who was elected to two-year terms in 1966 and 1968 and died of cancer in 1973 at age 60. Rockefeller was 24 when his father died and has said that event spurred him to search for his place in life.
And of course all Rockefellers are democrats right?
Oops!!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:56 pmIs the so-called Israeli land grab anything like the arab land grab in 1967?
I think your facts are confused.
Comment by Chase
The 1967 arab attack was a direct result of the zionists land grab after WWII… before WWII there IS NO DISPUTE other than small skirmishes between prejudice arabs and prejudiced jews… the zionists after WWII changed all that… their terrorist bombings of the british made it clear they were NOT acting in good faith.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:57 pmJust angry about HOW Israel was created. By stomping on the Palestines. Their crimes? Why were the Palestinians punished for the Holocaust????
Comment by madashell
How many years ago? 1948? Isn’t Jordan THE Palestinian state of Transjordan that established in 1946? From lands formerly occupied by the Hittites, Israelites, Assyrians, and Babylonians? The same Jordan who moved into and tried to annex the West Bank for themselves in spite of their Palestinian brothers?
And Lebanon? How come they aren’t pissing and moaning about all the Palestinians who’ve moved in and now are dragging them into war with Israel? Or bitching about the Syrians who occupied them for almost the past 20 years before the US pressured them to leave last year?
And Syria? Established by King Faisal in 1920, Syria was formerly occupied by Canaanites, Hebrews, Arameans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Armenians, Nabataeans and Arabs.
The right to return is BS. Bogus.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:57 pm“Gerald seems to think Israel should apologize for making Hezbollah cross into Israel and kill and hold hostage Israelis.”
• Soldiers cannot be ‘held hostage.’ They are POWs.
• The day before the one soldier was captured, the Israelis abducted a (civilian) doctor and another person from Gaza, whereabouts unknown.
• The call for PRISONER EXCHANGE, if answered, would have solved this entire issue, if only Israel had any intention of finding peace without making massive Arab graveyards.
• I have talked with quite a few Zionist racists who want to kill them all. They have ZERO sense of the dirt they do their grandparents by holding such racist views.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:58 pmAnd so many people defending Hezbollah
Yeh the pope is defending hizballah…jeez.
Lame Wilco Lame.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:00 pmSo Gerald, are you arguing that Hezbollah have some sort of statutory timeline within which it’s ok for them to kill indiscriminately (since this isn’t like native americans, etc.)?
And so many people defending Hezbollah. Wow.
Comment by Wilco
Hezbollah nor anyone else HAS ANY RIGHT TO KILL ANYONE ELSE… I think they should pull a Ghandi on Israel… but for some reason they dont… but the context does not include only the past week … it includes the past 60 years… the past 60 years MUST be addressed… all other blaming Hezbollah and Israel is just insanity… it doesnt matter who blew up whom as long as the root of the problem goes ignored… IF this is ever over I bet alot of arabs and israelis are going to go to the internation court for crimes against humanity … including Hezbollah and Hamas.
If there was NO prior crime by Israel then Hezbollah would be asking for all out war from the UN…. but the UN cant do that because there is PRIOR Israeli crimes to be settled…
July 17th, 2006 at 3:01 pm“Say Paul wasn’t Condi also a democrat?” –Cool Breeze
Oh, I see, you are referring to voting registration, not to the party itself.
No wonder you are confused. ANYONE can register as a dem — it does not make the party a reflection of them.
‘Condi’ is a warcriminal. I think she should be hanged from the neck until dead, after trial. She is also guilty of conspiracy in the U.S. coup in Haiti, as well as the Nine-eleven crimes, and a lot more.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:01 pmSo Cool Breeze you think Hezbollah has a right to kill whatever Jews they want because Bush is responsible for so many Iraqi deaths?!
July 17th, 2006 at 3:02 pmThis is all seeming a bit…disgusting.
Oh Gerald. “Zionist” landgrab after WWII? How anti-Semitic of you.
We should support Lebanon to clean their government of Hezbollah militants.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:02 pm#85 The right to return is BS. Bogus.
Comment by Joe Sixpack — July 17, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
Exactly. We’re all human beings, and the humans spreaded from Africa only some thousands years ago… the palestinians have the same right, if not more, to claim his native land than any modern USA citizen. And I don’t see people leaving the USA to let the land back to the native american (indian american) people.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:02 pmThe German-born Pontiff said history had shown no good would come of such conflict. He prayed that “the responsible politicians are brought along the path of reason and open new possibilities for dialogue and understanding.”
July 17th, 2006 at 3:03 pmOh, I see, you are referring to voting registration, not to the party itself.
No wonder you are confused
O Really?
do you not see the irony of what you posted?
LOL.
Yes Liberman is still a Conservtaive even though he dropped out of the Democratic party and created his own.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:06 pmOh Gerald. “Zionist†landgrab after WWII? How anti-Semitic of you.
We should support Lebanon to clean their government of Hezbollah militants.
Comment by Chase
Anti-Semitic means against brown skined people from the middle east … that includes ARABS…. no anti-semitism is a bunch of bullshit used to try to make the zionists look like the victims… JEWS were the victims NOT zionists.
I am anti-zionist just like I am anti-KKK … because zionism == racism.
HALF OF LEBANON IS Hezbollah …. it is not just a small gang of fighters… it is like saying you are going to clean the democrats from the American government … that means civil war.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:06 pmwilcoSo Cool Breeze you think Hezbollah has a right to kill whatever Jews they want because Bush is responsible for so many Iraqi deaths?!
This is all seeming a bit…disgusting.
No I agree more with what the pope said.
But if you ask the bush folks, the conservatives, then yes you are correct and I agree they are disgusting
July 17th, 2006 at 3:08 pmWait. Because the pope supports Hezbollah then everyone else should?
July 17th, 2006 at 3:12 pmHe also supported Hitler.
Murderers should not be supported. Why this is such a difficult concept for so many is really beyond me! Hezbollah don’t kill because of some victim complex! Yes, people have been victimized. Sure. But nothing gives them the right to kill. Nothing gives anyone the right to kill.
Wait. Because the pope supports Hezbollah then everyone else should?
He also supported Hitler.
Murderers should not be supported. Why this is such a difficult concept for so many is really beyond me! Hezbollah don’t kill because of some victim complex! Yes, people have been victimized. Sure. But nothing gives them the right to kill. Nothing gives anyone the right to kill.
Comment by Wilco
Hezbollah murdered israelis
Hamas murdered israelis
Israelis murdered Hamas
Israelis murdered Hezbollah
Israelis murdered British
Israelis murdered American sailors on the USS Liberty
Syrians murdered Israelis
Egytians murdered Israelis
Israelis murdered Egytians
SO WHAT?
What is the root cause behind all this damn fighting?
Post WWII ZIONISM … solve that and all those murders STOP.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:15 pmSure Gerald, because before WW2 Muslims LOVED Jews
July 17th, 2006 at 3:17 pmSO Paula.
Oh, I see, you are referring to voting registration, not to the party itself. No wonder you are confused.
Paula Paula Paula…so how then do you tell a Democrat from a republican?
Kinda shot your own foot their Paula…Just Saying..
July 17th, 2006 at 3:17 pmSure Gerald, because before WW2 Muslims LOVED Jews
Comment by Wilco
Thousands of Jews live in IRAN today… openly…
Jews have lived with Muslims for thousands of years in peace AND war.
Muslim religion says that Jews are NOT to be killed unless they are killing muslims…
Your racists out look on life makes you sound like you grew up in the south…
July 17th, 2006 at 3:19 pmWait. Because the pope supports Hezbollah then everyone else should?
He condemned both sides and the violence Wilco.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:20 pmThat is not supporting hizballah or Israel.
Well, whatever post earlier stated he supported Hezbollah.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:22 pmGood for him.
And Gerald, what racist statements have I made?
#99 No less than the pre WWII Americans. Check for the biography of Henry Ford, Charles Lindberg, Prescott Bush and many others. They flirted or plainly did bussiness with nazis or nazist ideology. There exists a good bunch of photos of the former two in nazi meetings. Henry Ford and Prescott Bush financed nazi movements in the USA. Hitler was Man of the Year in the Time Magazine. Check for the cover of 1938.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:23 pmBecause the pope supports Hezbollah then everyone else should? -Wilco
Hmm, so then these 91 Jewish guys support terror against Israel????
Each of the 91 Jesuit provinces in the world will hold a provincial congregation by 1 March 1 2007, to prepare for the Rome gathering.
While the Jesuit superior general is elected for life, the order’s constitutions allow a superior to step down.
Catholic News Service in Rome obtained a copy of Fr Kolvenbach’s letter in Italian; each Jesuit provincial is charged with ensuring that every member of the Jesuits receive a copy.
Fr Kolvenbach, who was elected superior in 1983, told the Jesuits that before making his decision he obtained “the consent of His Holiness Benedict XVI” and had listened to the opinions of his assistants at the Jesuit headquarters and of all the provincials.
Wilco go away before you hurt yourself.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:25 pmIsrael spurns UN call for monitors
Monday 17 July 2006, 11:48 Makka Time, 8:48 GMT
Israel has rebuffed a UN call for an international monitoring force to be deployed in Lebanon as it continued to attack the country.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:26 pmUm, Jesuits are Jews. They’re a Catholic order founded by St. Ignatius.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:30 pmAnd maybe I missed it, but what does that post have to do with terrorism?
And CoolBreeze, you’re the one who said the pope supports Hezbollah. Maybe I misunderstood and you didn’t mean it literally. If so, I apologize.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:31 pmDang it. I meant, Jesuits are NOT Jews.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:32 pmUm, Jesuits are Jews. They’re a Catholic order founded by St. Ignatius. And maybe I missed it, but what does that post have to do with terrorism?
Umm, wow, hard question, maybe the words you posted at the top??
Because the pope supports Hezbollah then everyone else should? -Wilco
July 17th, 2006 at 3:33 pmBecause the pope supports Hezbollah then everyone else should? -Wilco
I mean if you KNOW the pope supports Hizballah then surely you KNOW the 91 Jesuits do as well, right?
July 17th, 2006 at 3:35 pmAgain, you’re the one who stated the pope supported Hezbollah. I was referring back to that.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:41 pmAnd Jesuits are probably the most contentious order out there when it comes to the Pope. They are historically notorious for their lack of support for him.
CB, it was your post #87
July 17th, 2006 at 3:42 pm15 – 46 – Why “shaman” or should I say Seixon, are you trying to flatter me with your new adopted name? But, for a second there, I thought SANTO had returned from his asylum. Anyway, thank you, for the laugh.
49 – Cool Breeze – good come-back!
July 17th, 2006 at 3:46 pmI wrote: “Oh, I see, you are referring to voting registration, not to the party itself. No wonder you are confused.”
“Paula Paula Paula…so how then do you tell a Democrat from a republican?
Kinda shot your own foot their Paula…Just Saying..”–Cool Breeze
So, once your argument is seen to be based on registration and not party platform, leadership, or legislative record, you revert to name-calling taunts.
Great! Whatever it is that passes for brains in your skull, you clearly have no linear argument to make.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:48 pmComment by dlet — July 17, 2006 @ 2:39 pm
The West Bank is a landlocked territory on the west bank of the Jordan River in the Middle East. It is considered by the United Nations and most countries to be under Israeli occupation. Some Israelis and various other groups prefer to refer to it as “disputed” rather than “occupied” territory. It is not currently considered under international law to be a de jure part of any state.
The borders of the West Bank were defined by the 1948 Arab-Israeli War armistice lines after the dissolution of the British mandate of Palestine, when it was captured and annexed by Jordan. From 1948 until 1967 the area was under Jordanian rule, though Jordan did not give up its claim to the area until 1988. The area was captured by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, although with the exception of East Jerusalem, it was not annexed by Israel due to the concern of the overwhelming amount of Palestinian people it would control. Prior to 1948 the area was part of the British Mandate created after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. Located west and south-west of the Jordan River in the eastern part of the Palestine region in the Middle East, it is bordered by Israel to the west, north, and south, and by Jordan to the east. 40% of the area (including most of the population) is under the limited civilian jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority, while Israel maintains overall control (including over Israeli settlements, rural areas, and border regions). The population of the West Bank is predominantly Palestinian (84%) with a significant minority of Jewish settlers.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:49 pmnot WWIII or IV
its Ishmael v. Isaac Round 473,872
July 17th, 2006 at 3:50 pmAnd Catholics aren’t required to believe what the Pope believes anyway. Papal infallibility is only applicable when he speaks from the throne of St. Peter. So I guess it’s possible some of them do approve of terrorism but I really hope they don’t.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:50 pmWorld War III, or is it V, or maybe only IV…oh, what the heck…”It’s a number.”
Perhaps the War-Time President wants to go down in history as the only person to have fought multiple World Wars.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:50 pmnot WWIII or IV
its Ishmael v. Isaac Round 473,872
Comment by June
Indeed
July 17th, 2006 at 4:06 pmBill O’Rielly on the topic of WWIII, IV or V says “The whole thing is part of World War III, ladies and gentlemen. Islamic fascism against the West’” What he meant to say was “Islamic fascism against Christian and Jewish fascism.”
July 17th, 2006 at 4:08 pmMay the best fascist win!
Bill O’Rielly on the topic of WWIII, IV or V says “The whole thing is part of World War III, ladies and gentlemen. Islamic fascism against the West’†What he meant to say was “Islamic fascism against Christian and Jewish fascism.â€
May the best fascist win!
Comment by Yikes
Ya but cant they make like a gladatorial arena on the moon and take it up there? Some of us are trying to get some sleep and raise some kids…thanks.
July 17th, 2006 at 4:10 pmArtifacts found submerged in the Black Sea allude to events that occurred about 5600 BC. This event occurred when the Mediterranean breached the strait and flooded what was previously a fresh water lake which had been about 30 meters below sea level at that time. This event is traced in Sumerian writings and later Jewish biblical scrolls as the great flood. The Sumerian writings ascribed the event to their god and the Bible to the Jewish God. It is unfortunate that the Sumerian writings precede the Bible by about two thousand years and the bible places the event at about 3400 BC (based on the timeline for Noah’s life from the Bible). Taking both timelines into account, it appears that the Sumerian scribes were plagiarized by the Jewish scribes who composed the Old Testament.
July 17th, 2006 at 5:01 pmSo no matter what happens, it’s “Bush’s fault†and any Islamic aggression is understanable and free from critique?
Comment by Chase #11
Chase,
Educate yourself…
…read “American Theocracy” by Kevin Phillips…
…and this will ALL become clear to you…
…seriously…
July 17th, 2006 at 6:03 pmWake up people!
It’s the OIL stupid!
July 17th, 2006 at 6:04 pmGod was actually a Lebanese greengrocer, who bit into an underripe persimmon, and hasn’t been heard from since.
It’s the Tri-millenial Pucker — and it’s a doozy.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:15 pmI thought God was dead.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:17 pmThus Spoke Wilcothustra!
#11 There is a whole lot of blame for Bush. As I have suspected since his “Axis of Evil” speech, Bush has been discouraging the huge pro-Democracy movement (yes, there actually was one) in Iran. I believe the anti-Bush sentiment among Iranians directly resulted in the election of Ahmadinejad and the virtual disappearance of the reform movement. It has been replaced with nationalism, pretty natural when Bush bashes and threatens the country (and the relatively liberal president at the time). So, believing the right can protect them (just like the great unwashed idiots here) they go wingnut (again, like us) and elect a rapture-ready loose cannon (the parallels are striking).
July 17th, 2006 at 6:40 pmI’m sticking with World War 4. I’ve spent nine months blogging under ‘The Fourth World War’ and I’m not going to go and change it all around.
Interesting to note that World War 1 was known as ‘The Great War’ in the early days. World War 2 wasn’t called that until close to the end of the war and didn’t go into widespread media useage until well into the late 1940s.
Let me know if I’m wrong on those points.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:04 pm