American evacuees from Lebanon won’t have to pay.
By on Jul 18th, 2006 at 9:00 pm
American evacuees from Lebanon won’t have to pay.
Earlier today, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) criticized the Bush adminstration for telling American evacuees from Lebanon they would have to repay their transportation costs. “A nation that can provide more than $300 billion for a war in Iraq can provide the money to get its people out of Lebanon.” CNN reports that the White House has reversed its position and will be waiving the costs.
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It’s shocking that there was ever a question!
July 18th, 2006 at 8:29 pmBTW this is a law passed by congress during the Bush administration, yet Rice’s underling was on PBS tonight saying this was a law decades old.
what a bunch of DIC*HEADS!!!
I can’t believe that they would have the B*LLS to have Americans pay their way out!
I truly hate this Administration.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:39 pmTo those on the Right, it’s ok. We can finance it through tax breaks for the wealthy.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:41 pmMarie - Do you have more information about this law?
July 18th, 2006 at 8:41 pmYeah. The Bushies reversed their decision… For now…
Somehow, I think we’re going to be reading about thousands of dollars in “rescue charges” in about 4-1/2 months– after the elections. These people NEVER reverse course for real– just until the cameras go away.
–mf
July 18th, 2006 at 8:46 pmI was just reading updates on cnn.com and this is what they say on the subject:
(….)a 1956 law requires that the State Department be reimbursed. Those who can’t afford it can sign a promissory note and pay later(…)
Americans irked by fee to flee Lebanon
On the other hand, I didn’t find any reference to the fee being waived. What the news piece states is that “Sen. Debbie Stabenow of Michigan said she is introducing legislation authorizing the secretary of state to waive the fees if it would create a financial hardship(…)”.
The link provided by ThinkProgress is to CNN’s main page, not the actual news.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:46 pmEvery so often you have to pinch yourself and ask, is this really America? It’s not like any American I’ve ever known. This cabal has hijacked our government.
They bring us war, chaos, and fear.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:48 pmThey divide us with politics and divide us with religion.
They ruin our name, ruin our economy, and ruin our security.
These are not the acts of Americans.
They are traitors.
mof, these pricks were asking for $200 for there transfer to cyprus
July 18th, 2006 at 8:48 pmChase,
Catch up!
http://beirut.usembassy.gov/ lebanon/ Lebanon_Situation_Update.html
July 18th, 2006 at 8:49 pm#9 - Actually, I’m trying to find the law that has been passed in the past six years that changes payment policy of the Dept of State, as Marie alleged.
Do you have any idea? Are you caught up?
July 18th, 2006 at 8:55 pmOw wow, 200 dollars, vacation in “where”? Oh ok, they dont have to pay, probably a good idea.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:01 pmWhite House spokesman Tony Snow said the government had to charge evacuees because of a 2003 law.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:02 pmmarie - i heard randi talk about this today…
can’t find a link on her page, but she rattled it off (such a smart woman!) and said it was passed by bush early in his 1st term, i think… whenever they were trying to cover their asses after 9/11… the bill covered all kinds of “rescue”, not just from foreign lands, if i recall…
what’s particularly telling about this, is that many other nations began getting their citizens out of there days ago… now we put ours on a slow moving target and make them sign a promissory note…
July 18th, 2006 at 9:05 pmthanks, Katy,
July 18th, 2006 at 9:09 pmIn addition to Snow’s Press brief, I also saw Biden on TV explaining it more thoroughly today, but I wasn’t paying full attention at the time to all the details.
Randi ALWAYS has facts, documents, and news releases at her fingertips!
#12 - The relevant amended part in the Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 2003 which amends the State Department Basic Authoriites Act of 1956:
July 18th, 2006 at 9:13 pmSo we can help finance the country doing the damage? We give them the very same weapons that our own people need rescuing from and we were going to charge them?
that is just plain BS. How can any repub defend that?
July 18th, 2006 at 9:47 pmthese very same weapons that are being used in contradiction to US LAW–READ THIS!!!
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0718-07.htm
July 18th, 2006 at 9:55 pmWell what do you know…. folks who probably voted for Bush now know how thousands of New Orleans residents felt about how the government feels about them in times of crisis. At least they can pay to get out, instead of just being abandoned.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:01 pmRelax, freebird. After all, just think about the profits to be made by selling Israel more armaments to replace what they have used in their legitimate exercise of military force to recover two kidnapped soldiers!
And don’t forget Halliburton! I see some no-bid contracts in the future for that company, to rebuild what Israel blows up. What’s a few hundered civilian lives when there’s millions, maybe billions of dollars at stake?
And hey, this is WW III, or IV, or V. We can’t be squabbling over petty little things like Israel using the stuff we sold them a little too agressively, now can we? Heck, some people, like Time magazine, want them to be bombing Iran with our weaponry already. And others think we should have hit Syria.
Get with the program! 9/11!! Why do you support the terrorists? You must hate America and all that it stands for! Quit your whining and stand behind your Commander-in-Chief!
[sarcasm off]
July 18th, 2006 at 10:12 pmBush’s new government policy: “We got ours–you’re on your own.” Ask New Orleans how well received and successful this policy is. Do those seeking evacuation from Lebanon have to sign GOP allegiance pledges?
July 18th, 2006 at 10:24 pmOh, come on. Now we have to pay some cowards their trip to America instead of staying there and fight for … err … freedom or whatever?
July 18th, 2006 at 10:45 pmSarcasm off.
Moderated by Admin.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:50 pmIt’s shocking that there was ever a question!
BTW this is a law passed by congress during the Bush administration, yet Rice’s underling was on PBS tonight saying this was a law decades old.
Comment by Marie
False. The law was inacted in 1956. Maura Harty, Assistant Undersecretary for Consular Affairs, went over that in great detail for the media today.
Quote: “No one will be turned away because they forgot their checkbook.”
July 18th, 2006 at 11:01 pmHarty told the media today.
“Now with respect to — and as I said at the top of the brief, we started on Sunday, more on Monday, you will see a dramatic ramp up tomorrow. It will be done in a safe and orderly fashion. Our goal is to take care of American citizens and make sure that they are removed from harm’s way, if they’d like to be, in a safe and dependable and orderly a fashion as possible. With respect to the — I think the last of the questions that you posed to me, that is about the notion of charging for this service. The law that requires us to do that was written in 1956. We have text of it here. I won’t read it to you completely, but Section 4b-2a of the State Department Basic Authorities Act of 22 USC 2671 authorizes the Secretary of State to provide for the evacuation, but on a reimbursable basis to the maximum extent practicable.
Guess what? You’re going to register when you get on a vehicle and leave Lebanon. We are going to need you to — we are going to need to know who gets on those ships. We are going to need to know that everybody who says they’re an American citizen is an American citizen. As part of that process, yes, we will ask you to sign that promissory note, but if there’s one thing I want to leave you with today, it’s that no one, no American citizen will not be boarded because they left their checkbook or their credit card home. We deal with getting people out of harm’s way and later, we will deal with the bureaucracy and the requirements that the law requires us to make. I need to get people out of harm’s way first and that’s what we’re going to do. Thanks.”
July 18th, 2006 at 11:09 pmNo wonder those American Hostages in Iran back in the 70’s couldn’t get out. They didn’t have enough money to for an escape ticket.
-GSD
July 18th, 2006 at 11:09 pmCNN reports that the White House has reversed its position and will be waiving the costs.
Correction: Bush chose to ignore the law inacted in 1956. Maybe TP libs will whine to CNN and beg for a correction to their misrepresentation. You may send your complaints to:
paranoidlibs@cnn.com
Please be polite.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:12 pm#12 - The relevant amended part in the Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 2003 which amends the State Department Basic Authoriites Act of 1956:
SEC. 201. EMERGENCY EVACUATION SERVICES.
Section 4(b)(2)(A) of the State Department Basic Authorities
Act of 1956 (22 U.S.C. 2671(b)(2)(A)) is amended to read as follows:
‘‘(A) the evacuation when their lives are endangered by
war, civil unrest, or natural disaster of—
‘‘(i) United States Government employees and their
dependents; and
‘‘(ii) private United States citizens or third-country
nationals, on a reimbursable basis to the maximum extent
practicable, with such reimbursements to be credited to
the applicable Department of State appropriation and to
remain available until expended, except that no reimbursement
under this clause shall be paid that is greater than
the amount the person evacuated would have been charged
for a reasonable commercial air fare immediately prior
to the events giving rise to the evacuation;’’.
memphis minnie,
Chase, s right winger already posted the relavent part of the 1956 law that Bush amended in 2003.
So, in your face, by your own people.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:23 pmI think Bush should have to pay out of his pocket whenever he flies around the nation to do political events for the GOP! Why should we the people pay millions of dollars for him to fly everywhere like he is royalty? He can pay for his trips to his Texas ranch too!
July 18th, 2006 at 11:42 pmSpude_boy, dipshit. The 2003 ammendment doesn’t change the law with respect to payments. It provides clarity and further defines the law written in 1956.
But the real point of my post is that no one will be turned away if they forgot their checkbook.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:46 pmHouse Vote 369: Jul 16, 2003 (108th Congress)
192 Dems said Aye
188 Rep said Aye
8 Dems said Nay
34 Rep said Nay
Nancy Pelosi’s vote? Aye
Phoney Liberals. In your face.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:54 pmMM - get an education, learn some manners and then come back and try for a comment that actually adds to the discussion. Way past your bedtime child.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:14 amAnother huge display of incompetence by the King and no one in the Dem party with balls enough to grab a camera and speak like one speaks to a child about this party’s failures. Playing nice is no longer an option….This unruley child needs to be strapped 1812 style and all his promises trotted out with thier rates of success and failure. Even the kool-aid swillers understand when the brew is tainted……the dems just need to make a face. Can we please get it together…..fellow dems?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:28 amOff topic, but Big Brother strikes again.
Veteran cafeteria workers can’t find out why Homeland Security had them yanked from their jobs
July 19th, 2006 at 12:41 amhttp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06194/705517-85.stm
It seems to me the taxpayers have paid many times over for a trip home from anywhere in the world…We do pay and support all our military. We pay far to much to all our representatives and the cost to bus bushes bloated butt all over world in airforce 1 is in excess of $6,500 per hour…And I agree with Jay, bush should have to pay for his fare but more than that he should have to do some jail time for all his dreadful war crimes and crimes against the American public.
There is a solution though for any one wanting to travel in the future. Keeping in mind the mentalety of the present bunch in power. Don’t go to any country that has oil under it’s sand that this bunch might want and don’t go to a country they are looking to help change the leaders in….. One more parting shot, since we are suposto be the most powerful country in the world but are run by a slow leaker, decider, dictator one may look who came to our aid first during Katrina..(Canada) and who came to the aid of the people wanting out of Lebanon (France and Itely) Interesting….It took 4 and 1/2 day’s for bush to respond to Katrina and 6and 1/2 days to this latest mess. The track record is not getting better folks. Maybe travel should be limited to the above 3 countries since they seem to be more able to handle disasters and botched bush plans……….Blessings,Peace………BnF.sent 3 emails to the address you posted. 1 was returned and the other 2 must be out in cyber net…LOL
July 19th, 2006 at 1:02 amChase, #15. Granted you posted it without comment, but you did post it; the answer to your own question, which showed that the relevant law was indeed passed with Bush’s signature.
If I continue to pick on you, it is because I still have hopes that your eyes may be opened, as mine have through 4 year’s of law school. I used to have a bit of blind faith in the infallibility of Supreme Court rulings…until I took a course from a Supreme Court Justice and we analyzed cases where the Supreme Court was just plain wrong. The following year I studied Constitutional Law, and analyzed case after case of bad decisions, as well as good ones. The more I learned about the law, and what has been and is being done, the scarier it got.
While a government should have the faith of the governed, that faith should not be given blindly.
This is, as far as I know, the first time you have not come across as one of the 29% who blindly follow their dictator. I hope it will not be the last.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:25 amSharon, maybe I mis-typed. myspammailbox at hotmail dot com…
And you’re right about Blessings, we need them. to which I might add: Think Peace. It couldn’t hurt, and it just might help.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:28 amactually the part that is most interesting is that the original CNN piece stated that “The US Military, France, Italy and several others” don’t require re-imbursment. The salient point that they fail to make, is that the State Department is Running the show. They were also charging citizens up to $3000 for the helicopter ride.
NOW since things have changed, CNN just re-arranged the article adding the fact that the law was waived and the other information was deleted.
so you have to ask yourself, why did they decide to have the State Department evacuate the Citizens instead of the military? The military is already running it, now you have the state dept. as another layer of beurocracy.
How interesting that untill people started raising hell, the Bush admin was perfectly content to follow this law, i guess amending a 1956 law doesn’t make it as antiquated as say a law written in the 70’s.
anyone have the original cached tect
July 19th, 2006 at 2:16 amBushCo should have to pick up the tab, out of their own pockets, no leaning on the taxpayers for it. GWB said Israel has the right to defend itself, and the U.S. chose to veto a U.N. resolution to get Israel to cool their jets, which would seem to indicate their tacit approval of Israel’s actions. BushCo knows that there are 25,000 Americans currently in Lebanon, yet they chose to put all of their lives at risk, because they are hoping that this will escalate to the point of Iran and Syria becoming involved, and BushCo will then feel the need to come to the aid of Israel, because they are so weak and helpless. My ass. They have one of the best supplied Army’s in the world, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer. So since BushCo has made so much money from the GWOT, and will make alot more, if current conditions continue, and since we basically made their ‘defense’ possible, by supplying them with the war making ‘goodies’, they should be more than happy to cover the costs of getting those people out of Lebanon. The cost of doing business, you know.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:19 amPost 38 Cyra > I agree with you > Bush gave the green light to Israel to attack Lebanon, including bombing the airport, then they remembered that 25,000 Americans are in that nation, so bombing the airport was either a mistake, or intentional so that some Americans would get trapped and murdered, thus an excuse for Bush to get the US involved with Israel in attacking Syria and Iran! Bush and Israel are playing a very dangerous game now!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:27 amflip flop
July 19th, 2006 at 2:37 am“White House spokesman Tony Snow said the government had to charge evacuees because of a 2003 law. ” ie [Sorry we have to follow the law]
hhaaHahahAHAhAhaa AHAAAHAHA
aaaaa.
Wow, this has to be the first time the Bush administration claimed they had no choice but to follow a law.. I mean, arent we at “war” or something….? Amazing… these people think they can hold american citizens caught on american soil indefinitely, but yet it isnt within thier super-uber-war on terror powers to waive some fee? Well, its comforting to know there are a still a few things the president cant do unilaterially.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:18 am#39-Jay- I think you are correct. I think that this situation was the creation of BushCo, with the assistance of Israel, and is connected to the agreement recently made between Lebanon and Hezbollah (sp?) regarding the Lebanese demand that Hezbollah disarm, since they were now members of the government. Hezbollah agreed to do so, and it was set to begin in a few weeks’ time. If that happened, it would be very difficult to accuse them of any ‘terrorist’ acts, which of course would have required a ‘military response’, so they had to act quickly, just like Iraq. Had to attack before the Weapons Inspectors reported that Iraq had no WMD, or nuclear capabilities, thus removing the excuse for invasion. BushCo wasn’t about to let that happen, not when they were so close to their goal, oh HELL no! And now the Righties are beginning to chant “WWIII”, during every T.V. interview they do, planting the seeds in the fertile minds of their followers. This is very, very bad. Or I am allowing my imagination to run away with me, and that would be fine with me, it sure beats the alternative.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:40 amK A T R I N A
July 19th, 2006 at 5:45 amWith respect to Ms Pelosi, she voted ‘FOR’ the law she is railing against.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:52 amSeems to me if these Americans pay taxes they have already paid the “rescue fee”. If your government won’t help you when you are under attack, what is the advantage of being a citizen?
July 19th, 2006 at 7:32 amMo Do is finally back on the political beat in “Animal House Summit.â€
July 19th, 2006 at 7:36 amthis evacuation brings to mind lasts years katrina disaster. i wonder if anybody learned a lesson from how slow things were then?
July 19th, 2006 at 8:03 amOn CNN this morning a somewhat irritated Miles O’Brien interviewed a State Dept. spokesman on this issue. The only defense he had was that “this is a complicated operation. We have to make sure our people are safe blah blah blah.”
Yet a student in Lebanon who was interviewed (this was shown to the spokesman) said that citizens of other countries have already been evacuated.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:36 amWhere is Thinkfast? Where are any new posts? Did Soros forget to send you guys his check this month?
July 19th, 2006 at 8:50 amWhat a great country and specially the laws!
So, in short, you must have money in your pocket in order to
1) Being rescued from a country at war, a war what is, curiously, promoted by your own President.
2) Pay for the food yourself when you’re a soldier fighting for your country and have the disgrace of being wounded fighting for your country.
3) Rescue yourself when the supposedly federally maintained levees of the city you live fall in a class 5 Hurricane.
etc…
Again, who is envious of the benefits of being an USA citizen?
July 19th, 2006 at 9:02 am#49 Randy:
1) Thinkfast appears generally around 9:00am.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:06 am2) Read, if you can.
3) Angry because Tom DeLay has to cover his dirty bussiness and you’ve been pinkslipped lately?
#50
Why do we have an illegal immigration problem then? If its so bad, you’d think we’d have millions of people flooding the shores of Europe and Asia where I hear its just paradise. Get a life!
July 19th, 2006 at 9:07 amI’d better get my posts in now before TP shuts down permanently!
July 19th, 2006 at 9:07 amThere’s nothing new about charging evacuees. As a Foreign Service officer, I can tell you that it’s always been the case that the law required evacuees to reimburse the govt for the costs. The FS Act is “amended” often, but this requirement goes back a long, long time. Want to blame someone, blame Congress. That’s what I always did when I explained to someone why they’d have to pay to have a C-130 come pick them up off a hurricane-ravaged island.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:09 am#52 For the money. Earning more money doesn’t mean that they like your society.
And I’m sure I have a better life than yours, angry dwarf.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:09 am#54 Yes, Traven, I understand the underlying legality. It’s a generic desire for accountability for everything, and it’s not bad by itself, but sometimes it gets somewhat weird and insensitive.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:13 amYou don’t even know me and I really don’t want to know you given your posts. The United States is still the greatest country in the world. There is no denying that. We have more opportunity and freedom than anyone. Why else do you think everyone is envious of us?
July 19th, 2006 at 9:15 am#57
July 19th, 2006 at 9:21 amEveryone is a big assumption there Randy. I have met many people in my travels that think their country is just fine and they are happy to be right where they are. And I have even met people that *gasp* don’t believe that the US is the greatest country in the world.
Can you provide a direct link to the CNN article? The most recent article I could find on the site still says the US is offering promissory loans to those who can’t pay their own way out.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:22 am#57 You don’t even know me and I really don’t want to know you given your posts.
I’m glad that we agree in something as important.
The United States is still the greatest country in the world.
In what? In the factors I use, doesn’t.
There is no denying that.
I do deny it.
We have more opportunity and freedom than anyone.
I doubt it. And, you have also the highest rate (and number) of killings for firearms in the world. Doesn’t make a desirable contry for living to me.
Why else do you think everyone is envious of us?
You live in a highly delusional mindset. I don’t envy you, nor your country.
Comment by Randy — July 19, 2006
Bye, Randy, you’re beyond help, as I see.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:24 am#27 - I think the amendment I posted only clarifies the 1956 law. I think the idea in the clarification is that they won’t reimburse for costs above “market rate”… at least that’s how I read it. I had problems displaying the text of the 1956 law (Thomas, against cooperating) so I can’t compare the sections to their 2003 amendments.
#35 - “as mine have through 4 year’s of law school”
Come on man, pick up the pace. ;-)
I appreciate your comments (for the most part) and I can handle your proding.
I don’t think I have ever bought into the infallibility of the SCOTUS (or any governmental institution for that matter). I respect the decisions of the courts because, comparared to almost every other aspect of government, the careful scrutiny and the intellectual rigor that characterizes the court demands such respect. Do they decide somethings the exact opposite way I would? Quite often (see Raich). But at the very least, the arugments they make, even the ones I disagree with, make me stop and say “well, I don’t agree, but I can live with it because it makes some sense.” Compare that to Congress, where 90% of the shit that comes out of their mouths is to appease some group or campaigning for an election in the future.
/off soapbox
Anyway, moving on - enough of the lovefest - back to our typically contentious day.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:25 amIs FEMA running the evacuation? That’s ridiculous. The U.S. starts a war, and then innocent American civilians cauhgt up in it have to pay to leave the bombed out target of U.S./Israeli aggression. I know a way the U.S. State Department can keep evacuation costs down. STOP THE ISRAELI BOMBING! Problem solved
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
July 19th, 2006 at 9:28 amThe latest news and analysis on Israeli aggression in Lebanon
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
For every one who feels hopeless over this latest bush war here are 2 things you can tackle..Call or email John Bolton at the US mission to the UN..(212)415-4050 or email -usa@un.int…..Call and ask for cease fire……or contact UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and implore the UN must show leadership….Demand ceasfire… email ….sg@un.org….or fax (212)963-1921…Info from Code Pink web site this morning….Remember “Play nicely”, boy’s and girls………Blessings, Concentrate on Peace it is the only alternative to war…
July 19th, 2006 at 9:30 amWhy are these people in Lebanon? Are they on vacation? If they aren’t employees of the US government I really don’t see how it’s our repsonsibility. I would like to know what all this fuss is about, these people knew the dangers when they decided to go on their own to a dangerous region, my tax money shouldn’t be spent on helping them, sorry.
If they are students, their parents had the money to send them there so they should have the money to get them out, if they are employees of a business, then their company should be paying. Anyone else not working for the government is a tourist and they knew the risks.
So again, someone please explain this to me.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:34 amSo, basically, GW is once again a flip-fliopper??
Of all the Laws, he chooses to honor this one??
July 19th, 2006 at 9:38 am#64 - Would you have a problem with the US providing an evacuation means after commerical evacuation is no longer possible, and if necessary, fronting the money (via promissory notes) to be paid back later?
July 19th, 2006 at 9:39 am37 - here’s what I found:
It did strike me as a bit odd that the U.S. would refuse to call for a cease fire yet force its citizens to pay for their own evacuation. But then again, it also sounded earily close to what our government did for (to) its own citizens during and after Katrina. The message: in any crisis, we’re on our own.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:43 amComment by Evil Spaniard — July 19, 2006 @ 9:02 am
Don’t forget soldiers having to pay out of pocket for body armor to protect them in a war that the U.S. has declared.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:44 am#67 - They are free to stay.
I think the consensus is no one will be turned away for lack of funds. If you want out of Lebanon, the US will evacuate you. You may have to pay back the cost, but no more than you would have paid to leave the day before the conflict erupted.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:48 amChase - of course I would, but I can’t sanction this “free-ride” crap, these people need to take some repsonsibility for their own choices. Regardless of what Lebanon used to be before the war, it isn’t close to that now or before Israel started bombing, the Middle East is dangerous and for Americans it’s even more so, period.
Common sense FTW.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:51 am#65, S.D.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:51 amBush is not a flip-flopper - he is a lawbreaker! He disregards laws and policies with impunity, according to his liking. He suffers from delusions - he thinks he is king. Unfortunately the congress likes being a member of his court, so the jesters simply dance before him, earning his pleasure.
#68 WC: It’s what shocks me more, the USA GOP is very eager to ask every patriotic american citizen to put his life in the line of fire, and declare wars, but later, they act like petty greedy assholes with the same people who is the representative of the USA around the world.
Oh, and I forgot to add the soldiers returning home having to pay his ticket to his home. What? They’ve put, again, their life in the line of fire, and they must return home by his own?
Simply, it looks too selfish to me.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:51 amI absolutely despise Bush, but this isn’t a reflection on him, he didn’t send these 25,000 people over there.
So please people get a grip.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:54 amRandy,
Most powerful? yes, for now. Greatest? Highly debatable.
Except maybe the countries in the European Union, especially the new ones that joined just a couple of years ago. I was in Europe just a couple of months after they joined, the expansion of freedoms and opportunities for those countries was … remarkable. Oh, and the European Union guarantees more civil rights to its citizens than the United States does.
Globally, quite the opposite is true. We, as a country, are feared and resented, not envied. On an individual basis, however, Europeans are not judgmental, much to their credit.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:54 am#70 - I think I agree with you on this one. I would be outraged if they refused to evacuate people who wanted out but couldn’t pay right then and there. I think the promissory note system takes care of this
I also like the fact they won’t be charging more than the market rate. Granted, you might have to pay to get out today, but you were going to have to pay to leave at some point.
That seems right.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:55 am“If they aren’t employees of the US government I really don’t see how it’s our responsibility.”?
Simple: They are US citizens in a Sudden War Zone where one of Our Allies is a participant. You Gov’t should NOT abandon it’s citizens in such a situation.
Remember, it was relatively peaceful until the last week or so.
Instead of looking for an excuse to wage war, our Gov’t should press for a cease fire on all sides. The BS Excuse “It won’t matter” is an example of a total lack of Global leadership that will allow Russia to take the lead in restoring peace. Apparently, this adminstration doesn’t want the US to be the lead in international affairs..
July 19th, 2006 at 9:56 amWar breaks out when Americans are in the area and they can’t count on their government to evacuate them to safety? So the advantage of enjoying a degree of protection as an American abroad is…..?
July 19th, 2006 at 9:56 amWhy does this seem eeriely familiar, as in the Katrina evacuation of last year? Bushco is late to the rescue and when they arrive, they are ineffective. Some Americans have been evacuated courtesy of other nations (Sweden, among them.)
I think Katy is right - when disaster strikes, don’t count on help from our government -we’re on our own.
I also like the fact they won’t be charging more than the market rate. Granted, you might have to pay to get out today, but you were going to have to pay to leave at some point.
That seems right.
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 9:55 am
But what if they had a life there and had not planned to leave the country? Then, it looks not so right.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:58 amSimple: They are US citizens in a Sudden War Zone where one of Our Allies is a participant. You Gov’t should NOT abandon it’s citizens in such a situation.
Comment by S.D. — July 19, 2006 @ 9:56 am
Any state that borders Israel is in a war zone, the entire Middle East is a potential war zone. Hezbollah runs the show in Lebanon, the government isn’t in charge, so we have to assume that these people had NO IDEA something could happen?
Thin, very thin.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:00 amBushco asks wounded soldiers to pay for their meals in the VA hospitals; wounds suffered in part because Bushco didn’t spend sufficient time or money in supplying equipment; soldiers’ families have had to send them armor purchased at home; VA hospitals are closing for lack of funds; soldiers returning home from their landing in the US must obtain their own transportation home.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:02 amBushco won’t take care of those whom he has sent to fight his illegal war, so we should not expect him to give a rats’ ass for any American citizen in trouble overseas or at home.
Compassionate conservatism by BullshitBush.
Personal responsability, republican style: citizen, seek a zone in the world free of the war, natural disasters, have luck with your job choices, pay for every insurance in the market or otherwise your government will let you down. Oh, and pay religiously your taxes to build an even bigger military.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:05 am#76 - “You Gov’t should NOT abandon it’s citizens in such a situation.”
The government isn’t abandoning them. They are evacuating those citizens who desire to leave (only a fraction of those in the region, by the way). The only thing they are asking is that they pay the market rate for the return trip to the US.
#77 - “War breaks out when Americans are in the area and they can’t count on their government to evacuate them to safety?”
They can. The US is evacuating them as we sit here.
“Why does this seem eeriely familiar, as in the Katrina evacuation of last year?”
Well it’s not. Katrina destroyed peoples homesteads. Most of those left in New Orleans who didn’t evacuate did not have the method nor the means to evacuate. More importantly, they were at home, and their home was destroyed.
In Beirut, most of those looking to evacuate are there on vacation or for a short-term. They, by definition, had plans on returning on their own and should have the means to do so. If they can’t pay today, they can still get out and pay when they get back, at some point.
#78 - “But what if they had a life there and had not planned to leave the country? Then, it looks not so right.”
In that case, I would recommend staying there. If their life is there, where are they going to go in the United States when they get here? If they want to leave the region, and they still maintain US citizenship, we have an obligation to provide a “bridge” out (which we are). They will have to pay, however, the cost of the trip and any cost incurred during their stay in the US.
That’s one of the risks associated with living in a potentially volitile region.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:08 am#80 - Ok Marie, you’re making claims I don’t think you can support.
“soldiers’ families have had to send them armor purchased at home;”
I know this isn’t permitted.
“hospitals are closing for lack of funds;”
Can you find a story about one?
“soldiers returning home from their landing in the US must obtain their own transportation home”
Isn’t this how it’s always been? WWII was like this as well, wasn’t it?
“fight his illegal war”
It’s actually not an “illegal” war. Congress authorized military force in Iraq. You may not agree, you may think it’s “immoral”, but it is certainly not “illegal”.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:12 am“Any state that borders Israel is in a war zone, the entire Middle East is a potential war zone.”?
onthefence, Honestly, it only get’s better when people make it better. Following that Logic, no one should got to Israel since it could get hit at any time. Following that Logic, FEMA should never help shore states since they’re potential Hurricane Zones too.
As for Hezbollah running the show, from what I’ve read, only in the south. The Gov’t of Lebanon is trying to get out from under Hezbollah’s thumb, but with no tactical support, it’s not as easy as it sounds. Like Afghanistan’s not being given proper support to be free of the Taliban, lip service to “Freedom & Democracy” alone won’t do it.
My problem, in this situation, is that we can support our allies and ask for a deescalation of hostilities. Likely those Idiots in Hezbollah won’t honor it, but at least it’s a start and shows leadership. Right now, the Right Wing in this Country is saying “Let’s attack Syria and Iran”, which, IMO, would be a complete disaster.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:42 amComment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 10:12 am
As you say, Chase, it’s debatable. For example, the Secretary General of the United Nations disagrees with you. Since I’m a bit preoccupied with studying for the Bar, would you mind posting the text of the congressional authorization to use military force in Iraq?
July 19th, 2006 at 10:43 amIt’s only Wed. and as usual the bull shit bush regime has us in another mess. It does get tiresome and terribly depressing to watch the news, as though war is all this entire administration can create…Yes I said create….So far thousands have died in Iraq this year and now Israel is using U.S. supplies to kill (280 )innocents in Lebanon. The suposed bad guys, Hezbollah (sp?) have killed (28)……Isreal tanks now occupy southern Lebanon and food plants have been leveled…Since I remember the diffrent tic for tack junk that lead up to this genocide I do not agree with Israel at all and believe it is a botched plan with bush’s help to go after more of the M.E. countries…..Pretty stupid to bomb the air ports so no one could escape. On the other hand mr. evil may have thought it was a good way to draw more world attention. I can not fathum the deranged minds of waramongers and only time will tell how this dreadful plan will play out.
We have no diplomats any more. Dead eye Rice is a poor equivelant indeed, we would be better off if Disney sent in Donald Duck… John Bolton is a bush appointee and not equipt to anything more than taking out the trash. May I add he to is way slow in doing that. Under pressure by “we the people” however there may be some relief. If every one interested here emails the UN and Bolton maybe they will feel the pressure and discontent enough to get off their dead asses and do what is right. …..Working for Peace is not a weak approach it is the only thing that will save our world…..We must demand Israel stop the killings.. After a cease fire negotiations may work….Right now the divisions of for and against these wars are getting bigger. More people that were on the fence are now moving towards supporting Lebanon and Hesbollah…What Israel warmongers and bush had planned ( what ever that was )may indeed turn around and bite them on the ass. …Yep! it’s only Wed…I think I will take off untill Saturday…Friday’s in bush’s world are alway’s a bitch…….Blessings, Work for Peace
July 19th, 2006 at 10:47 am#85 - Here is the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq of 2002.
the Secretary General of the United Nations disagrees with you
I can’t find anything in the public record to corroborate this. In fact, I would argue that the language of UN Resolution 1483 accepts the invasion as legitimate.
Here is a great rundown of all enacted and draft UN resolutions that are related to Iraq, along with links to their text.
July 19th, 2006 at 11:01 amHonestly, it only get’s better when people make it better. Following that Logic, no one should got to Israel since it could get hit at any time. Following that Logic, FEMA should never help shore states since they’re potential Hurricane Zones too.
Comment by S.D. — July 19, 2006 @ 10:42 am
Ok can we please agree that there are no parallels between Katrina and this situation, they are not remotely the same, the Gulf Coast is sovereign US territory, we will always have that responsibility and rightly so.
Yes, no American should go to Israel because it’s dangerous, but people still do to visit family or for religious reasons/religious tourism, it’s not the US governments responsibility. Somehow I think you’re trying to say that lots of Americans should go there, because somehow that will make things better? I think generally speaking most of the Middle Eastern countries would prefer that we didn’t go there, except the UAE.
In summary American tourists toting their fanny packs and digital cameras aren’t going to improve anything for anyone, and apparently our tax dollars must be used to subsidize their poor vacation choices.
July 19th, 2006 at 11:05 amIf Bush really cared about the 25,000 Americans in Lebanon, then he would have told the Israels NOT to bomb the only International airport in that nation! Cutting off flights to the airport has stranded American tourists, so maybe that was the plan > to leave them in harm’s way so some would get killed to blame their deaths on Hezbollah thugs?!
July 19th, 2006 at 11:31 amIf Bush really cared about the 25,000 Americans in Lebanon, then he would have told the Israelis NOT to bomb the only International airport in that nation! Cutting off flights to the airport has stranded American tourists, so maybe that was the plan > to leave them in harm’s way so some would get killed to blame their deaths on Hezbollah thugs?!
July 19th, 2006 at 11:32 am#89 Yeah I’m sure Bush wants these people dead…..
Back to reality, contrary to popular belief, we don’t tell Israel what to do.
July 19th, 2006 at 11:46 amPost 91 LOL > you live in a bubble of unreality and fantasy with Bush! The Neocons desire a pretext to force a US attack on Syria, and Iran, so some American tourists getting gunned down might do the trick?!
July 19th, 2006 at 12:00 pm[…] Update: Apparently they’ve changed their minds about this. […]
July 19th, 2006 at 12:53 pmwhy should WE , the american taxpayer pay to evacuate these people?? unless they were working for the US governent please give me ONE good reason to pay for them voluntarily being in a place they know that shit is gonna hit the fan. it is no bad enough that the US taxpayers pay for support to many, many countries and so that all the illegal aliens in this country can spit out their anchor babies, get free healthcare and social security benefits but tell me why we have to ALWAYS pay and pay and pay?
July 19th, 2006 at 7:20 pmrandom thought: I wonder how much of the ordinance raining down on lebabon that americans are evacuating to avoid is actually american made..
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