Snow To Helen Thomas: ‘Thank You For the Hezbollah View’
Snow To Helen Thomas: ‘Thank You For the Hezbollah View’
In a contentious exchange at this afternoon’s White House press briefing, Tony Snow attempted to discredit reporter Helen Thomas by characterizing her comments as “the Hezbollah view.†Watch it.
Thomas asked Snow why the U.S. recently vetoed an Arab-backed U.N. resolution calling for Israel to halt its military offensive in Lebanon. Snow claimed, “We didn’t even veto — please get your facts right.†Thomas followed up by specifically asking, “There was no veto at the U.N.?†Snow maintained: “No. There hasn’t been a resolution at the V.N. — the U.N., whatever it is.â€
Snow’s the one who may need to check his facts. The AP reports:
The United States blocked an Arab-backed resolution Thursday that would have demanded Israel halt its military offensive in the Gaza Strip, the first U.N. Security Council veto in nearly two years.
The draft, sponsored by Qatar on behalf of other Arab nations, accused Israel of a “disproportionate use of force” that endangered Palestinian civilians, and demanded Israel withdraw its troops from Gaza. The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained.
UPDATE: Commenter John points out that the U.N. veto dealt with Gaza operations, not Lebanon. It’s unclear from the transcript whether Thomas was referring to that vote or not.
Full transcript:
QUESTION: The United States is not that helpless. It could have stopped the bombardments of Lebanon. We have that much control with the Israelis.
SNOW: I don’t think so.
QUESTION: We have gone for collective punishment against all of Lebanon and Palestine. And what’s happening — and that’s the perception of the United States.
SNOW: Well, thank you for the Hezbollah view, but I would encourage you…
QUESTION: Nobody’s accepting your explanation. What is it say, to call for…
SNOW: I’ll tell you, what’s interesting is people have. The G-8 was completely united on this. And as you know when it comes to issues of…
QUESTION: Stop the cease-fire? Why?
SNOW: We didn’t stop a cease-fire. Let me continue — I’ll tell you what. We didn’t even veto — please get your facts right. What happened was that the G-8 countries made a pretty clear determination that the guilty party here was Hezbollah. You cannot have a cease- fire when you’ve got the leader of Hezbollah going on his television saying that he perceives total war, he’s declaring total war, when they are firing rockets indiscriminately…(CROSSTALK)
SNOW: Please let me finish. I know this is great entertainment, but I want to finish the answer. The point here is, they’re firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas. The Israelis are responding, as they see fit. You will note, the countries that disagree with the government of Israel in terms of its general approach on Palestine — many of our European allies agree that Israel has the right to defend itself, that the government of Lebanon has the right to control all its territory, that Hezbollah is responsible, and that those who support it also bear responsibility.
There is no daylight between the United States and all the allies on this. They all agree on it. This was not difficult…
QUESTION: That’s not the point. Why did we veto a cease-fire?SNOW: We didn’t veto a cease-fire.
QUESTION: Yes, we did.
SNOW: No, we didn’t. There was no cease-fire.
QUESTION: But wasn’t there a resolution?
SNOW: No.
QUESTION: At the U.N.?
SNOW: No. You know what you’ve done — I see — what happened was that there was conversation about, quote, a cease-fire that was picked up on some of the microphone when some colorful language made its way into the airwaves yesterday.(LAUGHTER)
And the president was continuing a conversation he had had earlier with Prime Minister Tony Blair about staging. Would we like a cease-fire? You bet. Absolutely. We would love to see a cease-fire. But the way you stage it is that you make sure that the people who started this fight, Hezbollah, take their responsibility.
QUESTION: There was no veto at the U.N.?SNOW: No. There hasn’t been a resolution at the V.N. — the U.N., whatever it is. There haven’t been any…(LAUGHTER)
There hasn’t been.(LAUGHTER) I’ve been at (inaudible) in Germany too long. There has been no resolution at the U.N.
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Stop the cease fire now. Let's get World War III going already. How else will Haliburton manage to stay in business? How else can we get the price of oil above $100 a barrel. How else are we gonna stop the evil Muslims.
This brain fart brought to you by Fox News and Tony Snow.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:41 pmThe VN? This guy is such an idiot.
He makes McClellan look like a brain surgeon.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:42 pmYouns are either witt us or aginst us, and if youns are agin' us, you are with the terrarists.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:44 pmWow, I coulda had a VN!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:44 pmJesus, Tony is a moron. Guess birds of a feather do stick together. Dubya was getting tired of being the dumbest guy in the room so they went with Mr. Snow. And if Tony wants a Lebanese citizens point of view on this they could just drop a bomb on him.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:45 pmOr a G8!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:45 pmVN... the spokesman can't speak, or maybe he's speaking as his boss?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:45 pmIt's official. If your thought process strays outside the framework that dictates that US and Israel are always right and always justified in everything that they do, you are part of the problem.
It is not like this is new. "Make a choice. Either your are with us or you are with the terrorists", remember?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pmSnow has obviously been taking Honesty lessons from Dick Cheney.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pmI’m sorry, Americans, if I offend your sensibilities by making the sweeping generalization statement that you all are murderous nincompoops.
While thousands continue to die at your hands and as the results of your actions (Iraq), your representatives debate Stem Cell research. Not that such research is not an important topic, but rather the debate is so amateurish and so sophomoric that the debate has turned away from science and into about who thinks that they know God better. Unbelievable. More people are dying daily and you have the audacity to be debating your own morality amongst yourselves. Your ignorance is exceeded only by your moral incompetence.
Then you have a heat wave engulfing your entire continent. That’s right, not just one section or region but the whole damned country. When is the last time you remember such an event? But instead of seriously discussing the environment and climate issues, the debate is about who can be the most batsh*t crazy in attempting to debunk the science. Meanwhile your auto manufacturers are still not producing fuel efficient or alternative fuel vehicles and your congress debates where in the world you want to drill for oil next. Although, I do find it curious that your spiritual guru, a Mr. Pat Robertson, has not yet declared that your heat wave is God’s way of “scorching the earth†in retaliation for you even discussing Stem Cell research. I’m sure that is coming.
A new report also came out about how despicably you all are treating your poor. You know, those mostly dark-skinned folks of some flavor that you have no trouble ignoring. The compassion that you show, collectively, is the most accurate measurement of your humanity, ie; zero, zilch, nada. How fortunate for those of you who live in opulence and wallow in your gluttony. You don’t have to worry about your next meal, or if you will have a roof over your head. No, all you have to worry about is how fat you and your children are becoming. Your priorities are so skewed that the “obesity epidemic†is more important in your eyes than your rapidly growing poverty level. How’s New Orleans doing by the way? Not that any of you care, really.
And finally, the Middle East is erupting in violence and bloodshed and you all act surprised and horrified and the number of Jews that are dying or are in fear of death. No one really gives a flying eff about the Lebanese who are being murdered. Nary a one of you even have the insight to put two and two together and see how you have helped to facilitate this process. Have you really forgotten so easily your involvement in getting Syria out of Lebanon? Would the Israelis be so willing to be bombing Lebanon if the Syrians were still there? No, instead you all are talking about how you should get involved and start bombing Syria and Iran and any other dark-skinned persons so as to fulfill your blood lust and inflate your wholly unwarranted self sense of superiority.
So, is it hot enough for you there? Are you going to get up and do something or are you going to continue your descent into Hades all the while complaining about one of your leaders or the other? Just wondering.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:49 pmWasn't ISRAEL the first to attack Lebanon?? I swear I remember it being reported that Israel struck first...and then Bush started saying the opposite. Now Snow is saying the same.
The V.N. sounds like a Freudian slip to me.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:49 pmThe U.S. and ISrael think they can win this war against the "terroists" because of superior technology and weaponry. However, its the eventual overwhelming man-on-ground strategy that always brings war to succesful conclusions. After, bombing the s**t out of Iran & Syria what military personnel does America have to occupy Damascus & Teheran and bring about regime change? Maybe Snow can send his kid over there to get the job done.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:52 pm#10: You're assuming that the American people are the ones debating stem cell research, worried about the Israelis over the Lebanese, etc.
Americans and their politicians are not one in the same. We can't control what they do, as much as others would argue the contrary.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:53 pmTony is not accustomed to discourse with thinking human beings, he is from the FAUX Network which reports talking points from Karl Rove...entirely....Pravda in a NY way.
Tony McSnowjob is worse than the Puffy McMoomface before him.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pmSnow: I know this is great entertainment! ...
July 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pmDeplorable!
10# Humanist
July 18th, 2006 at 2:55 pmAbsolututely Brilliant Speech
gone on strut your stuff and write more, well said
#13-socks,
I'm sorry, I was not aware that the Dictatorship Doctrine had passed your congress and replaced your constitution.
Sorry to see that you have given up so easily. Good luck to you on that by the way.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:56 pmUhm, sorry to sound like I'm taking the side of Snow here, but that veto was regarding operations in Gaza, not Lebanon. It seemed pretty clear Helen/Snow were discussing Lebanon and Hezzbullah, not Gaza/Hamas.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:57 pmHow long can they continue to call patriotic Americans the enemy?
The more Israel does (not the least of which is plant spies at the highest ranks of the Pentagon), the more Americans realize the injustice.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:58 pmI don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but I'm sure Snow Job knows that Helen Thomas is Lebanese and was using that Hezbollah remark as a personal attack on her.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:58 pmIf I was a Hezbollah leader i would pack the rockets with nerve gas and also Anthrax and teach the world that jesuses house is out of bounds for 50 years ,
That would also encourage the Jews to goto america and stay
July 18th, 2006 at 3:01 pmWell, technically Helen was wrong...the U.S. veto in the U.N. was regarding Israel and the Gaza incursion. There hasn't been a resolution introduced (yet) regarding Israel and Lebanon. But, of course, you can bet your boots that if it WERE introduced, the U.S. would veto it as well. The MSM in the room missed their chance to put Snow on the spot about the Gaza veto.
Humanist...I agree that our "leadership" is doing all that you say, but you are attacking everyone on this board with your rhetoric. Most of us who post here feel just as strongly as you do, and feel equally as helpless.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:01 pmIt is not clear from the reports whether their was an actual resolution which required a vote, or if the US simply blocked the resolution with a threat of veto, but those are just parsing words.
Tony Snow is a great choice for press secretary, because McClellan would have just stood there while Helen Thomas pounded him, but Tony accurately framed Helen's antics as being pro-Hezbollah, or at least greatly sympathetic to a terrorist organization that controls southern Lebanon and is firing rockets at Israeli cities.
Helen was demanding we get Israel to stop defending itself against these attacks, which is absolutely ridiculous. Lebanon claims it has no ability to disarm Hezbollah within its own borders per a UN resolution, so Israel is justified by the UN resolution to defend themselves and disarm Hezbollah themselves.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:02 pmHumanist
If our country is so bad, why are people like you bursting to get in? Oh, it gets hot in the summer time here. Do you guys get snow in the summer? Below freezing temps? I forgot, everytime you get on TP you refuse to answer questions. That's okay, I didn't really want to here your crazy rambling anyway. "Peace be unto you" or however you say it.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pmThat's a pretty petty thing for Tony Snow to say to Helen Thomas. She had a valid question, and Tony mocked her rather than answering the question.
How ironic that he would say "get your facts straight".
July 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pmIsrael Violates US Law With Attack on Lebanon
READ MORE
"Section 4 of the [U.S.] Arms Export Control Act requires that military items transferred to foreign governments by the United States be used solely for internal security and legitimate self-defense," says Stephen Zunes, professor of politics at the University of San Francisco.
"Since Israeli attacks against Lebanon's civilian infrastructure and population centers clearly go beyond legitimate self-defense, the United States is legally obliged to suspend arms transfers to Israel," Zunes told IPS.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pm# 10, Humanist,
Very compelling. Absolutely true.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pmAlthough I am not an American, I would hope you are not speaking to a majority as this would call for a loss cause and I believe Americans will pull it together by November.
#24-Jim,
You're right, they were all "non" issues and you Americans are the most perfectest things to ever grace the planet. I suspect that if you whistle the right tune that you could probably adequately occupy your mind so as to completely ignore all of the issues. Whistle away there einstein.
May peace be with us all.
(amazing how you couldn't even get that right jimbo.)
July 18th, 2006 at 3:07 pmLOL!!! Get her, Tony! She should be tried and executed for treason.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:08 pmUhm, sorry #11, but Hezbollah invaded Israel's sovereignty by lobbing bombs into Israel which was simply a diversion while they actually went into Israel and killed 3 Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two (after lobbing shells into Israel for over a year). Everyone simply glosses over this fact. If Al quaeda were lobbing shells into the US from the Canadian border, what do you think our response would be and don't you think the Canadians would kick al quaeda's ass for doing that? Lebanon was told to do something about Hezbollah basically setting up a state within Lebanon and the government did nothing. Instead of screaming about Israel's response, tell me, what is Israel supposed to do? Just sit on its hands and let Hezbollah shell it?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:09 pmWatching Tony squirm like this reminded me of Stephen Colbert's audition tape for Press Secretary, when he implored the rest of the press to "please don't let Helen do this to what was a lovely day." ^_^
July 18th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#27-Marley,
What's compelling is not that I am speaking the truth, but rather that Americans are choosing to ignore it at all costs.
As for the "Wait for November" thing, which "November" are you talking about 2004 or 2006? The world fell for it in 2004. Don't expect them to be as nuckleheaded as the Americans and fall for it again in 2006.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:11 pmComment by maxmom
You ignore the fact isreal has been conducting terrorism none stop since the 1940s
July 18th, 2006 at 3:11 pmSnow forgets he's not at Faux Snooze any more. He doesn't just get to make up "facts" any more....
Cheers,
July 18th, 2006 at 3:11 pmAmericans may pull it together by November...but it won't make a hill of beans difference.
The election results have already been determined.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:12 pmDear HUMANIST:
July 18th, 2006 at 3:13 pmYou are clearly the brain donor in this situation. To assume all Americans support Isreal or this travesty against humanity is akin to believing all Arabs are terrorists, or all Jews are by thier very nature more valuable than any Palestinian. Rather than preaching to the choir, why don't you preach to Fox news or CNN or some other such network propaganda machine. Not only are your comments offensive and mildly moronic, you seem to think the whole world backs you in your blanket hatred of Americans.
There are tens of thousands of Lebonese who do not in any way shape or form ssupport Hizbollah, and I am sure that the majority of civilians murdered by Isreal in the past week were not among Hizbollah supports (particularly since the were mostly children).
There are thousands of Palestinians and Isrealis who want a peaceful solution to the endless blood.
I have just witnessed my best friends nation and city get obliterated, her people villianized and her hope for future destroyed. She was actually planning on moving back to Beruit. Now there is no more Beruit to move to.
So, HUMANIST, I suggest you reasses your idiotic veiw of Americans, and instead, try to build support among the MILLIONS of Americans who do not support this new war, the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war or the so-called 'war on terror' which is really just a war on Muslims.
Get your facts straight, idiot.
The Isrealis have been killing Palestinians for 18 months nealry every day with thier American helicopter gunships
The palestinians Have had a cease fire for 18 months
July 18th, 2006 at 3:15 pmHumanist
You know what, it got so hot this past weekend, MY DAMN SKIN CHANGED COLOR IN THE SUN!!!!! Freaked me out man. Peace be unto you my fellow earthling brother dude or whatever you guys say.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:16 pm13# "We can't control what they do"
YES YOU CAN!!! VOTE THEM OUT OF THEIR COMFORTABLE REPUBLICAN SEATS!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 3:16 pmJust sit on its hands and let Hezbollah shell it?
Comment by maxmom
Nope. They should remove ALL settlements THIS YEAR. Release all the innocent arabs they have in prison... not the killers... just the regular dads,moms, and children. And THEN go to the UN and push for a peace treaty with all the ME states that includes putting Jerusalem and the Israeli nukes on the table.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:17 pmi listened to Rabbi Michael Lerner on al franken earlier...
July 18th, 2006 at 3:21 pmanother viewpoint... i learned alot... more at his website:
http://www.tikkun.org/
#36-Matthew,
Thank you for your well thought out response.
My point was simple and I figured that most of you would understand it. I illustrate how you Americans choose to ignore reality and the truth and instead occupy your collective minds with senseless matters. It is a chosen ignorance, there is no doubt.
You can go ahead and call me an idiot, by the way, and I will not be offended. You show your frustration, and that's fine. But you bark at me and do nothing about your country. I think that if you were to look up the definition of "idiot", you might see something recognizable.
Lastly, I want to address just one statement that you made:
So, HUMANIST, I suggest you reasses your idiotic veiw of Americans, and instead, try to build support among the MILLIONS of Americans who do not support this new war, the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war or the so-called ‘war on terror’ which is really just a war on Muslims.
Get your facts straight, idiot.
Your country cannot start wars fast enough and is wanting to kill and murder more people and you want me to not speak the truth and instead focus on gaining the support of the MILLIONS of people who are accomplishing nothing. Interesting logic, I see now how you all have fallen so fast.
May peace prevail.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:22 pm"You ignore the fact isreal has been conducting terrorism none stop since the 1940s"
Gerald, it's not just maxmom that ignores these facts. Israel abducted two people the day before the first soldier was kidnapped but the rulers of the world don't care for you to know this. Some dipshits will say that I support Hezbollah simply because of pointing out the fact that Isreal is no angel in the middle east. There is no "right" in the middle east, there is only "wrong". I am tired of being told that I should feel sorry for the Jews in Israel.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:23 pmYES YOU CAN!!! VOTE THEM OUT OF THEIR COMFORTABLE REPUBLICAN SEATS!!!
If it's a "Republican" seat, how do you vote Republicans out of them?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:23 pmWatching the left squirm over their support for terror sponsoring nations is so much fun.
The sheer fact that liberals will not condemn these rogue nations is worth a few senate seats. You don't have the moral clarity to be trusted with national security. You will lose.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:24 pmI am tired of being told that I should feel sorry for the Jews in Israel.
Me too!
Israel is as much a part of the problem in the Middle East as the rest of them.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:24 pm#40 - yeah, because that's worked before.
I am sickened by the left's anti-Israel rhetoric. I can't wait to strangle you with it in November.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:25 pmTony McSnowjob made a real snotty comment to Helen Thomas there. He doesn't know the facts of anything, what he knows is, Helen is elderly, of Lebanese descent and will always ask the devil's advocate question. That puts her head and shoulders above him and anybody else of his ilk. When a real journalist comes up agaisnt a snotty faker the results aren't pretty are they?
For "Humanist" You don't sound very humanistic. We are not the Congress or the President, we are private citizens wo care about our country. The Middle East can consume all of us every day, but JUST LAST WEEK the most immediate concern was North Korea! And yes, we do debate life and death issues other than international politics. Stem cell research (so-called) is an issue because the Republican faithful make it so. That is a political challenge that has to be met.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:26 pmWatching the left squirm over their support for terror sponsoring nations is so much fun.
Watching the "right" support the terrorism of the United States makes me want to vomit.
But at least one of us is having "fun".
July 18th, 2006 at 3:26 pmwhat nobody has realised by moving the christians to other countries Lebanon has become a Muslim state, The Christians will not back in,
July 18th, 2006 at 3:27 pmOnce WW111 starts Isreal will get the shit bombs out of it and be inhabital for hundreds of years and the Arabs got what they wanted
#46 - thank you, thank you!!! Please continue to expose the left's hatred for Israel - America's true ally in the world. I will wrap that around your neck come vote time. I wish we could force people like you to live in Iran and Syria since you obviously hate democracy.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:27 pm#49 - PIG. GTFO if you hate it so much. You're not wanted here anyway.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:28 pmI can’t wait to strangle you with it in November.
Why is it that those on the "right" can't wait to resort to violence?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:28 pm"Thank you for the Hezbollah view."
Oh. My. God.
I don't care if Helen Thomas was technically correct or not, Snowflake doesn't have the right to say that to her.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:29 pmI wish we could force people like you to live in Iran and Syria since you obviously hate democracy.
I wish I could force people like you to live in IRaq, since you obviously love "democracy" so much.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#55 - I'd rather live there than in Iran or Syria, dipshit.
AND I love America and support the WOT so leaving is not necessary. You obviously don't so please leave. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:30 pmMarley:
Believe us, we've been trying. The problem is the neocons have been stealing elections since 2000.
The solution I'm advocating is to insure that opponents of the Bush regime turn out in overwhelming numbers this November, so as to make another election theft as blatantly obvious as possible, by insuring the maximum amount of skew between the exit poll numbers (until 2000, a nearly perfect predictor of elections) and the election results.
Faced with this, the neocons will have two options: either back off and let truth and justice carry the day, or cheat even harder to steal the election. If they choose the former, we'll have a Democrat-controlled Congress, which (hopefully) will institute impeachment proceedings immediately. If they choose the second, they will have sent a clear message to the American people that the ballot box is no longer a valid mechanism for political change in this country, and patriotic Americans will be left only with the option of the bullet box.
Either way, November promises to be interesting.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:31 pm#54 - OH YES HE DOES. You will silence the right when left-wing attack dogs like Helen go sympathizing with our enemies. YOU WILL NOT SILENCE US.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:31 pmSuck the Baby's Skull Out
I am trying to understand if your choice of screenname is trying to vaguely get the point across on your view of abortion or if this is what happened to you and made you so bonkers.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:32 pm#48-J.Lee,
Every day more people die at your hands. I'm asking what is really just a very simple question: When are you going to stop it? Why you all choose to not answer that question is a reflection upon you, not upon me.
And, please read your Constitution. You have a democracy based upon elected REPRESENTATION. Your government is "of", "for", and "BY" the people. Are these concepts foreign to you? I'm aghast at having to explain your own government to you.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:33 pmGTFO if you hate it so much. You’re not wanted here anyway.
Your support for the terrorism being initiated by the United States is what makes me want to vomit....and it makes me want to vomit for the very reason that I love my country so much. It sickens me what is being done in this world in the name of my country. It sickens me that people like you have no respect for human life...you only have respect for the unborn...and even then it isn't respect...it's just political fodder for your foolishness.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:33 pmAs well as the Marines lowering their entry standard
July 18th, 2006 at 3:34 pmI can see the trolls in here have just left shool and got a job in some goverment spin agency
I love abortion and pray that liberals keep having them. Eventually, you will exterminate yourselves which is the perfect punishment for your crimes against America.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:34 pmTo Hezbollah
When the American warships come to pick up their civilians
please bomb them with 100 rockets
As it is actually their fault
Thank you
July 18th, 2006 at 3:39 pmSuck the Baby's Skull Out my guess is this is ol' ann coulter herself.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:40 pm“No. There hasn’t been a resolution at the V.N. — the U.N., whatever it is.â€
This says it all.
Don't expect the man to follow or know what the UN does if he doesn't even know the organisation's two-letter acronym.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:40 pmSuck
July 18th, 2006 at 3:41 pmSo, when did you become a god and can tell that progressives don't love America. As a parent I lovingly chastised and corrected my child who engaged in behavior that I did not approve. Similarly I lovingly chastise and correct my country when it engages in behavior that I do not approve. Many of us progressives believe that the Bush administration with its policies and procedures is against American values as indicated by our Constitution, laws, and rulings by the Supreme Court. Your "love it or leave it" mantra is not only old, it was and is an idiotic paradigm. It would be un-American and not patriotic for us to be silenced in trying to correct and chasitise the direction our country is going. I could easily suggest that you, since you seem to approve of the attack on the Constitution and laws of our country, should be the one to leave. Rather, I welcome you to stay and become familiar with our history and traditions so you can become a true American.
- Suck the Baby's Skull Out:
You know, STBSO, an argument is like a sandwich....the points you're making are the meat, and the mindless insults are the spice.
A little spice serves to accentuate the flavor of the meat and makes for a more enjoyable sandwich. But only a complete moron would try to make a sandwich out of nothing but spice.
In the future, please include a little meat in your sandwiches. Kthx.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:41 pm#64-Time,
What an absolutely horrible thing to say or even think. How have so many of you lost all your respect for the sanctity of human life?
It is beyond belief.
May peace be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:42 pmHelen is an idiot. So is Faiz. There is no resolution calling for ceasefire regarding the current Mideast conflict that has been voted on by the security council.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:42 pmhttp://www.un.org/Docs/sc/unsc_resolutions06.htm
has there been a U.N. resolution on this latest attack on Lebanon or not? It would surprise me that the aggression has gone on this long without one. Thinkprogess seems to be mixing up a resolution regarding the Gaza Strip/Isreal. If there has not been a resolution proposed regarding this latest violence, I'm sure there will be soon.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pmHey Humanist;
Noting your smug contempt for all things American, I again postulate that your inane bigotry is misplaced. You ask what are we doing about it? Take a goddamn look! We argue with strangers, we argue with neighors and we argue with friends until we are blue in the face as we try to make them see what is happening to this nation, and by association, to every other soul on this planet. If you are advocating an armed insurrection quit beating around the bush and just fuicking say it. Otherwise, stuff your oblique and specious arrogance. Even better, why don't you get off your own ass and tell us what the hell you're doing to effect change? Apart from spewing pendantic inanities, which any comforted toad can do, let's hear what the great Humanist is doing to make the world a better place.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pmFaiz, I thought you would appreciate Tony Snows' recognition that the Hezbollah point of view re: the latest Israeli responses to terrorist attacks was ably represented by Hezbollah Helen herself. (But I'm sure Helen was simply concerned for relatives and friends along the Lebanese/Israeli border.)
#10 - Humanist (AKA: More musings from our favourite over the pond critic.) "I’m sorry, Americans, if I offend your sensibilities by making the sweeping generalization statement that you all are murderous nincompoops."
******No offense, taken. I would be very upset if a smug, self-laudatory type such as yourself thought kindly of Americans. (I do recognize your affection for an odd-breed of "Americans" - the self-loathing type. Unfortunately, that is often the result of laziness and envy OR, at the other extreme, spoiled and lazy.)
And to really keep the topic of Hezbollah Helen and the Mid-East mess moving along, Humanist contributes an "interesting" paragraph on global warming - as IF there were anything HUMANS could do to turn the tide of natural climate changes - which I assume you know, have occurred for millions of years. Ahh, the ARROGANCE and IGNORANCE of some....Not to appear completely unhinged, our secular friend rails against the impoverished here in gluttonous America. The fact that he forgot to mention the $10 TRILLION spent on the poor can only be blamed on faulty research and NOT on selecting information tailored to Humanist finely honed point of view. (I wouldn't want FACTS to intrude on his pre-suppositions.)
And then Humanist attempts to drive the cart back onto the track by mentioning that Israel wouldn't go after Hezbollah if they were still occupied by Syria. You appear to think Israel acted dis-proportionately - not surprisingly, I disagree. I feel badly that innocent Lebanese have been held hostage by the rogue terrorists of Hezbollah, but I do wish you would show evidence of contemporary warfare which has not suffered unfortunate civilian casualties.
But never fear, if the good die young, Hezbollah Helen will be around another one or two hundred years to give the terrorist spin on the days events....
Back to work....
July 18th, 2006 at 3:49 pmi find it hard to believe that any one would want to address someone who choses such a screen name... too bad those responding gave it any kind of "life" here...
July 18th, 2006 at 3:50 pmjust sayin'
Where are you from humanist? I don't see the world crawling over themselves to solve those problems you so nicely laid out for us Americans. I was too busy wiping the foam of my latte from my nose to notice I was holding a hairdryer over my garden contributing to global warming. That is what global warming is, right? Yeah, yeah, we're protectors, guardians, etc. because we have all of the money. At the same time, the inferiority complex of the world constantly looking over our shoulder telling us WE need to conjure up some witches brew to solve the ills of the natural order of the industrial world (of which started in Europe, you prick) gets a little old to deal with sometimes. You and the rest of the charitable world need to get over yourselves. You're doing just about as much to solve the problem.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:52 pmYOU NEED TO READ THIS:
Franks Luntz's handbook for the GOP- How to frame going to war to the public in a post 9/11 America...
COMMUNICATING THE
PRINCIPLES OF PREVENTION & PROTECTION
IN THE WAR ON TERROR
from therandirhodesshow.com
July 18th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#64 - "To HezbollahWhen the American warships come to pick up their civilians please bomb them with 100 rockets As it is actually their fault
Thank you" Comment by Time Capsule
*******It is SO refreshing to see the type of human debris who embrace progressive views....and if you live in Europe - a simple "thank you" will do...
'til later....
July 18th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#73 - that's the best Colbertesque faux-right wing parody I've seen in a long time. Keep it up.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:55 pmIs it OK to abstain on the entire question of responsibiilty or what to do next in Israel and simply say that a government official should not compare journalists to terrorists while on the job?
SBSO: Congratuatlions. You earned your trolling merit badge today.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:55 pm#75 Humanist can't give you any reasons, he's too busy posting under other names commenting on his own posts in comments sections of blogs to be able to do anything other than type.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:55 pm"COMMUNITATING" now... not "DOING SOMETHING ABOUT"...
July 18th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#72-Martin,
I hate murder and killing. I hate gluttony in the face of poverty. I hate intolerance. I hate racism. I hate greed. If these things are all that “America†is about, then yes I hate all things American. Fortunately, I know that to not be the case. It is odd that you do not.
Now, you claim your chosen action to be to argue with everyone. Perhaps you need to actually “do†something. Especially since that “arguing†thing is not producing results.
And, no, I do not advocate an armed revolt (or any violence for that matter). If you cannot figure out non-violent ways to solve your problems, then you are already stuck in the very mindset that you claim to be against. Think about that for a few minutes please.
Peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:57 pmThere is no resolution calling for ceasefire regarding the current Mideast conflict that has been voted on by the security council.
Comment by Glen Frenkle — July 18, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
Here is the link to the full text of the resolution: United States Vetoes Security Council Draft Resolution on Events in Gaza, on the UN's own web site.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:57 pmBAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- More than 14,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq in the first half of this year, an ominous figure reflecting the fact that "killings, kidnappings and torture remain widespread" in the war-torn country, a United Nations report says.
Thank You For the Hezbollah View on American terrorism
July 18th, 2006 at 3:57 pmAlso, here is a comprehensive list of U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel, courtesy of the non-profit Jewish Virtual Library.
This list includes the latest US veto.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:58 pmZooey, have you noticed how many of the trolls and roaches that post for the reich winged are spewing violance.? Many have even taken screen names that are offensive..
CNN has been running a few true clips from the Lebanon side that show how hard they have been hit and verify by the local citizenry Israel is up to it's old tricks. Lie and bomb, much like bullshit bush does...... Blessings,Peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:59 pmHumanist,
I take it your not from around here. It's ironic how when the rest of the world has a problem or needs a handout they always end up on our door step. The beautiful thing about America is that we made it. Its not perfect, but through history, I am not familiar with any country that was. We have all had our share of colonialization, wars, and horrorifing governments over time. However, given the history of the world over the last 100 years, chances are that America bailed your ass out of some mess during that time. So, I would think there would be a little more respect as there are enough problems right now that trading insults is truely a waste of time and intellect.
If you are not from America, I have to ask what your perfect country is doing to correct the Middle East mess? Sending food? money? arms? more than likely none of the above. Here is the type of answer that I would expect: A friend of mine was in a bar in an un-named European country during the Boznian war. A local asked him, "what are you Yanks going to do to settle Boznia". My friend gave him the only answer possible, "it's your backyard, what are you going to do".
Finally, if you visit this site regularly you know that we liberals hate to death conservatives and despise moderates as having no backbone at all. However, we are all Americans, we have earned the right to insult each other, because we have to live here with the consequences. You have no skin in the game so save your critique for your own countrymen in your perfect country.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:01 pm[...] Think Progress has te full transcript and a video as well: [...]
July 18th, 2006 at 4:03 pmTo Humanist:
Man, you just can't help from emitting worthless contempt, can you? I ask you what you're doing and you suggest I am trapped by some ethereal thought process that keeps my wheels spinning. You still haven't said word one about what you are doing to help. Instead, you come on here and attack as ignorant, naive and ineffectual the very people who are trying to change this nation's course for the betterment of all living things. I try to understand what kind of person would sit so high in their own self-esteem and I wonder what your motives might be to say on the one hand that we must do something and then on the other thaty nothing we do will help. What I end up with is a mind engaged in ping-pong devil's advocacy, the kind of person who argues just for the sake of arguing.
Can't you answer my question with a concrete example of what you're doing to help? Saying that you love all of humankind is not an action. It's merely a state of mind and state of mind cannot change our state of existence. What ACTION are you taking, Humanist, other than belittling everything we are trying to do to concretely change the world for the better?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pm#87-David,
Yet another person who ignores the truth and then attempts to discredit the truth by pointing out how perfect and wonderful Americans are. Ignorance is bliss, my friend, and you are about as bliss as a person can be.
And, gee, what nice and trendy use of terminology "skin in the game". So, I guess because no Iraqis come to your family reunions that their lives mean less. Lovely. Also, I guess that my nephew who went to and returned from Iraq would probably be considered "skin" in your vocabulary. Or my nephew who is on his way to the region right now. How cavalier you are in regard to who "counts" in humanity. I just wonder how you sleep at night, but then that bliss thing comes to mind.
May peace (and not bliss) be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pm#32- Humanist said:
"What’s compelling is not that I am speaking the truth, but rather that Americans are choosing to ignore it at all costs."
That is exactly it! Your truth is your p.o.v.
Where does truth lie? Under the rugs in the White House.
What I mean by November is November 2006 where the strong possibility of having a Democratic majority is imminent... unless Diebold wins again although I highly doubt Americans will let this happen again.
This current extremely dangerous Bushco/fascists/extremists can hopefully dissipate at least in the "White House Policy Making World" and Americans can hopefully go back to enjoying being liked by the rest of the World. My p.ov.is that it is difficult for the rest of the World to understand this disturbing complacent attitude of Americans in general after all the lies and scandals have uncovered, in parts I might add... It is mind boggling to see the mass media circus trying to juggle the government talking points and lies... and no one seem to be able to speak UP!
That is why it very important to vote the Republican majority out of office in 06 to uncover more truth, recover peace, heal the wounded and really mourn the dead.
I love America. I love Americans and the main thread in the fabric that used to hold Americans together: Freedom, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Press.
Sadly, the main thread in the fabric that holds America and its government together at this time has been wearing really thin because of Bushco's weaving of deadly convictions and terrible corruptions.
No one should blame Americans. The more important truth is Americans have been fooled, once, twice but hopefully not three times.
Bush is speaking about terrorists attacking democratic countries right now on CNN.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:19 pmHe and his puppeteers are the real terrorists. They started all the conflicts with their own agendas of oil profits!!! Vote them out of their seats. The root cause if the problem is Bushco.
Humanist #10 & #13 - I thank you.
We do not have our priorities straight.
We dislike where our government is headed and conducting business in our name.
Even those of us who see more clearly than others are not concrete in our thoughts and resolved.
Americans as a whole haven't truly suffered directly enough by this government for citizens to take up action as a whole.
Media, government and apologists still controls the medium of power and influence and makes it difficult to single or even small group to make changes.
There are some who are trying in small way. Valerie and Joe Wilson is suing Bush Adminstration. Patrick Kenedy is suing Diebold. There are other small little actions taking place. I hope we can change as a whole in the near future before it's too late. In the meantime, countless people will die and suffer unfortunately. I wish it could be faster. But any faster, US may become unstable and we may see new set of problems that may be even more dangerous to the world.
Time and willingness to continue to fight. We still need world support to carry out changes. It may be difficult at times to forgive us. We will not giveup our country just yet.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:23 pm85# that is a wonderful list of Soul Vetos by America in the UN Resolutions Critical of Israel
the Soul Vetoer " that list sums up Humanists views alone"
'Lebanon crisis an international conspiracy'
READ MORE
July 18th, 2006 at 4:24 pm#64 and point those rockets at NY, Chicago & LA to wakeup the stupid sleepwalking amerikans
July 18th, 2006 at 4:26 pmTony Snow is an absolute, arrogant flippin loser!!!!!!!! Let's bring back Scottie! At least he didn't act like a jerk and think he was so funny! This guy is not funny-I don't know why the White House press corps laughs at his stupid jokes and comments!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 4:27 pm#91-Marley,
I have offered no points of view, only facts and truths. Let's see if you can follow this example: Many Iraqis are dead. The Iraqis were innocent and not an immediate threat. The people who killed them did so murderously. The murderers were Americans.
Now, dispute that truth if you can but do not be so asinine as to claim that I am just offering up my POV. You disrespect Iraqis and all humanity with your blasé attitude.
And I see that you are another one who has not read or studied your own Constitution. I know this because you say that "No one should blame Americans" and then you go on to suggest that bush and the government should be blamed. Dolt. Your government is "of", "for", and "by" the people. You, the people, are the boss. You, the people, are where the buck stops. Why do you insist upon ignoring your own accountability? And, don't you see that it is because you refuse to accept responsibility that this insanity continues?
Please, wake up.
Peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:37 pm[...] White House Press Secretary Tony Snow accused Helen Thomas of representing “the Hezbollah view.†[...]
July 18th, 2006 at 4:39 pmTony Snow rocks!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 4:40 pmWhat a butthole.
socks4dobby - Israel always starts it. #30 mom - Nobody's glossing anything over. That's the official story, that Israel is retaliating for the kidnapping and "murder". (Israel is always retaliating.) We don't know the whole story. To Palestinians, Israel is an interloper. The Israeli army enforces what Palestinians see as an extended occupation. Even our Arab pals in Qatar are calling for Israel to chill out.
You just know something happened before the official story begins.
I'm really sick of the childishly unrealistic view that Israel is by definition innocent. How many houses have been blown up by their government? How many stone-throwing 12-year-olds have been shot?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:40 pm#44, MNW If it’s a “Republican†seat, how do you vote Republicans out of them?
This was a figure of speech. Not a literal comment.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:43 pmI know clarity can suffer from using figure of speech... did not mean to be so literal.
96 # Yes exactly lets tar them all with the same brush,
July 18th, 2006 at 4:44 pm#57, TripMaster Monkey.
I completely agree with you. It is so unfortunate but please believe as I believe justice will prevail.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:48 pm#99-Massachusetts,
You see the light that so many of your fellow commenters do not: Heritage does not preemptively absolve you of your sins. Jews have been persecuted and mistreated. But that does not give them license to kill and murder.
Yet, and this one will hurt, the United States of America exists due to the honorable acts by many and the honorable structure of your government. However, that honor is not hereditary. Just because you are an American does not make you honorable. There are too many examples in current events to list that display the lack of honor that many Americans are operating under. You preach to the world from the shoulders of your founding fathers, all the while dishonoring them and your nation's history. But you claim innocence based upon the sole fact that you are "Americans". You are betraying all that your ancestors have fought and died for, that is the unpleasant truth that so many choose to ignore.
May peace be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:51 pmHey cheryl:
The WHPC is not laughing at Snow’s joke’s they are laughing at Helen Thomas.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:52 pmThe WC press corps has a “Helen problem just like the house Dem’s have a “Nancy†problem except in Helen’s case there is no excuse, she should know better.
I love it when certain people get on here and pretend to be from another country. I really makes me laugh.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:53 pmJim,
Yeah, that 'Seixon' guy really cracks me up too.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:57 pmTo "Humanist"
July 18th, 2006 at 5:04 pmThere are many U.S. citizens that cannot understand the fighting,and killing innocents, over a desolate piece of sand in the middle east.!
Why don't you go some place where you are wanted and welcomed???
Sincerely and with all my heart , I wish
'Peace ON You'
As the old saying goes, we can argue and call each other liberal, conservative or moderate. Really get mad at one another. Get down right nasty sometimes. But when someone from "another country" does it to one of us, F#*k THEM!!!!!!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 5:05 pmthe inferiority complex of the world constantly looking over our shoulder telling us WE need to conjure up some witches brew to solve the ills of the natural order of the industrial world (of which started in Europe, you prick)
July 18th, 2006 at 5:08 pmComment by Puppykicker — July 18, 2006 @ 3:52 pm
You have all the money because you have stolen it since 1800´s. Read some Latinamerican economical history. WE have no inferiority complex. YOU HAVE IT, thats why you are afraid of everybody: russians, muslims, ufos, mexicans, whatever...We dont want you to solve anything. You are incapable of solving anything, have you noticed? (OH, what? WWII? Russians won that war, you just dropped two nukes over japanese civilian population. Bosnia? You mean the thousands of ethnical cleansing that you were supposed to stop, but contributed to it, and then promote divisions?)
We are not asking you anything, we never did. Just mind your own damn bussiness within your borders, plunderer.
TripMaster Monkey
Your #57 comments, your right about this upcoming election. It's going to very interesting. But when the smoke clears, I don't the senate or the house will change hands. The big boy is 08. Everything is up for grabs then.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:09 pmGolly, I actually agree with Humanist's #109 post. No baby is born inherently honorable and this is true of every corner of the planet. Environment, upbringing and genetic blessings can create a truly honorable person. In the U.S. we are attacked by fellow Americans for pointing out the sordid episodes in our past and present. They love to think America can do no wrong. That's pure and dengerous bullshit. Even our founding documents relegated blacks to less than full humanity. That was a moment of dishonor in an otherwise beneficial document. Even our shining moment, World War II, had its moments of dishonor. We did not bomb the railways leading to the concen tration camps evben though we knew millions were being slaughtered. Nothing we do is ever purely good or purely bad. It's the trend toward one side or the other that rouses us to act. We are trying so damn hard and if those outside the U.S. don't accept this then they are dishonorable themselves. They dishonor the sacrifices and risk we take to effect the very change they purport to wish. Saying we are doing nothing is just a lie easily disproven. If outsiders continue to sneer that we are twiddling our thumbs in apathy then they themselves are no fairer or honest than the cretins in the U.S. causing so much worldwide grief.
Israel is not a perfect state yet neither is Palestine. Are all palestinians saintly martyrs? No. There is both good and bad in Palestinian hearts. Same for Israelis. Extremism on both sides has the unfortunate fallout of hurting those who truly want peace. Destruction is always easier than construction. Still, the Arab "brothers" of the palestinians have for decades been perfectly willing to use the Palestinians as pawns in their own battle against Israel's existence. Maybe if Palestinians start putting Israel on their maps and maybe if they publicly stick with the fact that Israel has a right to exist then maybe peace can move forward. That will, at minimum, put the peace onus back on Israel. For now, what can we expect Israel to do when its neighbors keep suggesting Israel and the Jews must be wiped from the face of the earth? Much like the U.S., those moderates in the middle east find that they have no voice or ability to effect change. But change has to start somewhere and all the blame cannot be put on Israel, unless of course you're just an anti-semite. Palestine has to get Hamas and Hezbollah out of their governance. They have to stop being used by their Arab "friends." They have to forge a national identity. They have to take control of their own fate and they must do so without the agenda of wiping Israel off the map.
Peace is not a natural state of affairs. It must be grasped and once held, it must be nurtured. They only way it lasts is when people recognize their shared humanity. At any rate, when extremists rise to power, as they have ion the U.S., it always encourages the rise of extremists everywhere else.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:09 pm#105-107 are perfect examples of the truth I exposed in the first paragraph of my first comment (I believe #10), murderous nincompoops.
Attack truth and acquiesce to deception. An odd plan, I must say, but it seems to be popular amongst American "intelligentsia". Humanity deserves much better and, as has always been the case, humanity will prevail. The only question is cost.
May peace be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:12 pmBut when someone from “another country†does it to one of us, F#*k THEM!!!!!!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 5:13 pmComment by COMMENT BY JIM — July 18, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
Nothing but a shitty life waits for you and your xenophobia. Ignorant asshole.
#96- Humanist, "Please, wake up"
Please wake up? You should wake up and realize we have been cheated out of 2 elections by Bush and Co. "We the people" does not apply any longer in America.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:13 pmDid you ever hear of Diebold? Just google it.
Hey #112, how hot is it in Michigan today? Or are you from Illinois? You crack me up, your whole little act. What a joke:) I'm laughing right now.......... Oh I forgot.....
Peace be upon you my fellow flowers from the sea, or how ever you say it....
July 18th, 2006 at 5:16 pmStill waiting for Humanist to list all the fabulously positive actions he has taken to bring peace to planet earth.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:18 pm#111-Martin,
I applaud the truths that you speak and that you intelligently walk through some very specific examples.
Although I will have to dispute one thing, that being that "Peace" is not the natural state of things. Actually, it is. War and violence are the aberrations ie; they have to be waged and maintained.
May peace prevail.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:19 pmI’m really sick of the childishly unrealistic view that Israel is by definition innocent. How many houses have been blown up by their government? How many stone-throwing 12-year-olds have been shot?
Comment by Massachusetts Lilberal
More often I see that that Palestinians are by definition innocent. How many rockets did they fire at Israel during the cease fire? Is throwing rocks an act of violence, or merely protest? If Israelis threw rocks at the 12 year olds would that be okay? And yes, each side can point to a previous event. At some point you have to draw a cease fire line, which is inevitably broken by some rogue group with a home made rocket or Ak-47.
The violence needs to stop on both sides, not one side. Both sides.
Or maybe I just have an allergic reaction to people whose battle cry is "God is Great" -- reminds me too much of the evangelicals trying to curb our freedom here at home.
Theocracy is NOT a good thing.
Also, Sun Tzu said you should know your enemy. The neocons brag about reading Sun Tzu, but don't actually follow his advice.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:20 pm#114-Marley,
I'm sorry that you have given up. I hope that works out for you.
Peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:21 pmWhen you're done dog-earring Being and Nothingness, finished listening to Shakti while realigning your chi, Humanist, perhaps you can bless us with a statement of action? Just show us the way, oh enlightened one, by TELLING us what ACTIONS need to be taken according to this imperial pseudo-genius of yours that somehow grasps the form and scope of eternal, cosmic truth. Saying you are for peace is pure pap if you have no idea how to make peace happen. Mirror check time! What do you see? A blowhard spouting criticisms about the woeful state of the world devoid of productive alternatives. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah...
July 18th, 2006 at 5:27 pmHelen has nothing to worry about...
...she'll STILL outlive that lying, TREASONOUS demon (Tony Snowjob)...
...I see chemo in his future...
...again...
July 18th, 2006 at 5:27 pm[...] The irrational disconnect doesn’t stop there, and in fact, WH Spokesman Tony Snow completely disgraced himself and the white house in an exchange with Helen Thomas this morning. After incorrectly claiming the U.S. didn’t “veto” a statement regarding “Gaza” at the Middle East at the U.N. or as Snow called it: “…the V.N. — the U.N., whatever it is,” he went ahead and belittled the reknown Bush-critic Thomas by adding, “Well, thank you for the Hezbollah view.” Watch Now: Tony Snow Bashes Helen Thomas [2:43m]: Play Now | Play in Popup document.getElementById('podPressPlayerSpace_397_label_videoPlayer_397_0').innerHTML='Hide Player'; document.getElementById('podPressPlayerSpace_397').title = 'videoPlayer_397_0';These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
July 18th, 2006 at 5:28 pmWhen the Family that was Killed on the Beach in Palestine a month or so ago by Israel accidentially "shooting" whatever it was they said they Did'nt do it but then after being proved it was there ordinance. and then said it was an accident I knew all Hell would break loose well Hell is here and now those in the middle east will hate this country more than they already do guess George and his neocons new what to do all you had to do is listen to Crazy John McCain 'guess rove was right about him in 2000' and Ginrich talking of World War 111 perpetual war and Israel is a stupid bunch of pawns being used to do it and I lost all simpathy for them they have no desire for peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:31 pmHumanist, I beg to differ. Peace is not the natural state of affairs, at least not yet. All life devours another for survival. My cats were eaten by coyotes. Human consciousness must will peace to happen and that will must be backed up by action. Seriously, when in all of human history has peace been the norm? It has never been the norm. There have only been respites from war. Even in times of supposed peace there have been other forms of war being waged. War against the poor, war against the environment, war against progress. In every span of peace someone has been pushed to the margins. The basic problem is that folks who truiy want real fairness and peace must contend with primal relics in the souls of far too many humans. Also sadly, that aggression, the kind that can so starkly label anyone who disagrees as less worthy of life, is part and parcel of the quest for power. Buddhism is an awesome philosophy, so respectful of all living things. But it remains an exception. Peace makers operate from an unfair stance. They will not dehumanize their attackers and they will not begin wars to force their opposition to see the light. Again, it is an easier path to disregard those not aligned with you, whether in thought, creed or skin color, than it is to put yourself in their shoes. Compromise and peace can only come from an ability to empathize. This has no chance to flower if those against you willfully lack the ability in themselves.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:36 pmThis lecture by Minister Eric Muhammad speaks powerfully to the Middle East conflict explaining it's true root in white racism and exposing the lies at the foundation of Zionism.
BLACK HISTORY & THE IMPOSTOR JEWS!!!
7/10/05
THIS LECTURE IS 6.66MB IN SIZE. WITH HIGH SPEED INTERNET, IT WILL TAKE ONLY SECONDS TO DOWNLOAD. WITH DIAL-UP IT COULD TAKE UP TO AN HOUR.
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW TO BEGIN DOWNLOAD.
http://www.zshare.net/download/black-history-and-the-impostor-jews-7-10-05-wma.html
MUHAMMAD'S TEMPLE 15
ATLANTA, GA.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:43 pm#123 There have been plenty of horrific "accidents" on both sides, but I wouldn' say either side doesn't want peace. If you round up everyone who genuinely doesn't want peace then I support everyone remaining on both sides. I still have a hard time with the notion that the IDF said, "Hey let's drop this shell on some beachgoers." OTOH, Hamas has openly bragged about doing the same to innocent civilians. I wouldn't believe it if Hamas didn't admit to it. Hamas has also had obvious bomb-making accidents which they tried to blame on Israel. But war makes people do strange and horrible things. That's why when war ends both sides give up on the idea of ever getting "justice" or "revenge" for what happened during the war. Cease fire, real borders, no more revenge, and nobody attacks nobody. That's the only real answer.
I support Palestine, I support Israel, but not those who attack civilians.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:46 pmI think that remark was a shot at Thomas' Lebanese heritage.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#124-Martin,
Excellent points all and although I disagree with some of the specifics, I wholeheartedly agree that PEACE should be the goal instead of war. That is the effort that all should be pursuing with vigor and without relent.
The price for war is death, plain and simple, and that is far too high a price to pay regardless of whether that death is yours, your family, your friend, or any inhabitant of this planet.
May peace be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#119, Humanist,
"I’m sorry that you have given up. I hope that works out for you."
Given Up? How dare you telling me I have given up? Who are you to speak for me?
July 18th, 2006 at 5:54 pmYou are missing many points with your arrogance which you disguise in peace activism.
The Palestinians have been disposed from their land by the Jews, have lived with terror and torture and occupation for more than a generation. Isreal holds thousands of Palestinians prisoner and treats its Arab citizens like second class citizens. The Jews launch attacks into Gaza when ever they feel like it, killing and wounding uncounted civilians without shedding a tear. But when Arabs fight back with the only means at their disposal the Jews go ape s**t and declare war. What nonsense. The war there has never ended and won't until Israel behaves like a responsible world citizen and not a bunch of Nazis.
And for those Christian and Jewish zealots who believe God gave this land to Israel. Forget it. The latest archealogical research shows that the great stories of the Old Testament such as the stories of the Patriarchs like Abraham and Jacob, the enslavement of the Hebrews by the Egyptians, the Exodus, the wandering for a generation in the Sinai, Kings David and Solomon's immense empires were all invented in the 7th Century BCE by the priests of Josiah, King of Judah. The purpose was to create a common history and religion for the people of Israel and Judah (together known as Cannan) which would facilitate the unification of the two kingdoms. God's promise to the jews of a homeland is pure fiction. So the next time someone tells you the Jews have a historical right to their land tell them tell them to stuff it. And if they tell you that you are speaking the words of Satan just roll your eyes and walk away. You can't argue with kooks.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:56 pmWhat this country needs is more unemployed politicians.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:07 pmThe reason he said VN is that the German for "United Nations" is "Vereinte Nationen". Which is why he made the comment about Germany.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:13 pm#129-Marley,
I beg your pardon but I did not claim to speak for you, you spoke for yourself and I quote:
Please wake up? You should wake up and realize we have been cheated out of 2 elections by Bush and Co. “We the people†does not apply any longer in America.
Did you ever hear of Diebold? Just google it.
Comment by Marley — July 18, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
If there is any other way to interpret your comment, please feel free to elaborate.
Peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:28 pm#118 At some point you have to draw a cease fire line, which is inevitably broken by some rogue group with a home made rocket or Ak-47.
Or a Katusha rocket.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:32 pmKermit et. al. Please bear in mind that the Hamas & Hezbollah partisans attacked military personnel. Israel promptly and recklessly fired rockets, killing about 100 civilians. And we're supposed to side with the Israelis? Please.
From The Observer:
These are war crimes.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:41 pm# 133, Humanist, "If there is any other way to interpret your comment, please feel free to elaborate."
When I said " We The People does not apply in this country anymore" I responded to your very uneducated and narrow minded comment as follows:
Quote:"And I see that you are another one who has not read or studied your own Constitution. I know this because you say that “No one should blame Americans†and then you go on to suggest that bush and the government should be blamed. Dolt. Your government is “ofâ€, “forâ€, and “by†the people. You, the people, are the boss. You, the people, are where the buck stops. Why do you insist upon ignoring your own accountability? And, don’t you see that it is because you refuse to accept responsibility that this insanity continues?" Unquote.
We the people have NOT chosen to elect Bush in 2000 nor in 2004. He "crashed the party", uninvited, simply put. You still have not acknowledged you know about Diebold. Myself and more than half of this country did not vote for Bush so when you make a comment like the one above, you generalize by associating all of us who don't agree with Bush policies with the ones who support him and his devious ways. Stop your sounding so righteous and one-track-minded, please. Not very peaceful of you.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:52 pm#136-Marley,
So, it's "republican" America who is murdering all the Iraqis? And where is that, specifically, on a map? And show me, since I am so "uneducated" where it is in your Constitution that it takes the power away from the people and then assigns it to the dictatorship that you describe.
You see, my friend, you have fallen into the trap of thinking that your country has been stolen from you and that if you sit around and whine enough that they will give it back. Is it your country or not? Do you believe in the Constitution or not? Are you so afraid of losing your SUV that you would rather sell your soul? Would you consider your inaction "honorable" in the eyes of your founding fathers? Answer those questions truthfully to yourself and you might be able to identify the smelling salt that I am waiving beneath your nose. Or, just call me an "idiot" and move on. Your choice.
May peace be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:02 pm#130
You are so very correct. It was good to see one poster mention the bombing of the beach in Gaza and the families killed. Israel is a bully and they are attempting to exterminate the Palestines just like Nazis attempted to exterminate them. How interesting they are now the offenders instead of the victims. Israel finds it in their benefit to be the victims. It gives them the right to kill without responsibility.
Also, remember a couple of months ago Bush stated if Iran attacked Israel we would help defend Israel. Isn't now just so interesting how this war is the fault of Iran and Syria. Remember Bush named Iran and Syria as part of the "Axis of Evil" and has wanted to make war with them for a long time. Interesting now he has a reason. Israel is our friend and they would have no problems in killing because Bush has no problem with killing innocents. The both have blood on their hands and have no remorse.
God help us and our children.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:09 pmFaiz gets a clue.
Commenter John points out that the U.N. veto dealt with Gaza operations, not Lebanon.
#83 Gregor Samsa, have you read your link to the draft resolution? Maybe you've figured it by now, too. Do you see any reference to a cease-fire directive between Hizbollah, or their support from Syria and Iran?
July 18th, 2006 at 7:10 pmto the americans fighting each other.
keep it up you are fun to read
grabs more popcorn
=)
July 18th, 2006 at 7:30 pmTony Blow Snow-job is simply a blithering idiot. For one thing he should grow a pair and apologize to Helen Thomas like a gentleman. Short of that he deserves to have the ever-loving shit beaten out of him.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:32 pm#137 Humanist,
Yes it's Repubilcan America that kills all Iraqis. Do you know what Bush said about the constitution? He said: "It's just a God Damn piece of paper!" His utter ignorance and focus on greed and power has taken the power away from the people until November that is.
You see, my friend, I do not drive an SUV. And you just gave me the green light to call you an idiot. You're an idiot because you have no idea where I come from and what I stand for. Moving on!
July 18th, 2006 at 7:45 pmDo you see any reference to a cease-fire directive between Hizbollah, or their support from Syria and Iran?
Comment by Gene Frenkle — July 18, 2006 @ 7:10 pm
Have you read the post I was replying to?
Maybe you haven't realised it yet, but the Gaza strip is in the Middle East. And the ongoing Israeli military offensive there is also part of the "current Mideast conflict".
July 18th, 2006 at 7:54 pm#141 - "For one thing he should grow a pair and apologize to Helen Thomas like a gentleman." - Mr. Evil
July 18th, 2006 at 7:57 pm******Dear Mr. Evil - I agree, Tony Snow should apologize to Hezbollah Helen.....AFTER she learns a thing or two (three or four things would be tooo much to expect!) about "good manners". She constantly interrupts - maybe because she is so busy yammering, she never hears anything - and THAT'S the reason all her columns have sounded pretty much the same for the last 30 years.....
might aphrodite,
Since you just keep yammering, would that be why all of your posts have sounded the same for the past 3 years?
July 18th, 2006 at 8:06 pmOur resident expert on all things "South of the Border" joins the discussion of Hezbollah Helen and Israel with this intellectual nugget:
July 18th, 2006 at 8:09 pm#109 - "WE have no inferiority complex.....We are not asking you anything, we never did. Just mind your own damn bussiness within your borders, plunderer. - Comment by Juan C.
***** Thank you for clearing up that burning question. Would you be so kind as to convince your Hispanic, Latino, and/or Chicano brothers and sisters who happen to be in the US illegally that THEIR home countries MISS them terribly. I recommend you tell them how GREAT their countries are - it seems alot of them have forgotten.
Humanist:
As an American who is shocked and saddened by what the Bush Administration has done to the world and our (once) fine country, I am nevertheless quite annoyed by your sanctimonious, hypocritical ramblings.
Do you know what I have done to try and save my country? No? Then don't sit there and tell me that I am just as bad as the Repuglicans. I noticed you consistently refuse to state what exactly YOU have done to rectify the situation: that makes you a hypocrite.
Do you post on right-wing websites, or do you just like "preaching to the choir" by insulting those who actually want to change things?
Finally, I find your faux-spiritual "peace messages" to be rather creepy. I have read many right-wing Troll posts that slander, slime and degrade any who they disagree with, then they end their post by saying something nice like: "have a nice day". Are you sure you're not a Troll in disguise, sent to disupt this forum?
Pees on You.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:09 pmHow difficult is this folks?
2000 - Israel pulls out of Lebanon and falls back to the UN approved borders. To be absolutely sure, Israel has the UN come out and verify.
2005 - Israel pulls out of Gaza ... they uproot their own people (who were plenty pissed) and pull out.
So ... I'm guessing that this would be perceived by Hamas and Hezbollah as a good thing ... because one of their beefs with Israel is that whole "occupation" thing. The sing Israel's praise and reward their semitic bretheren with shows of good faith. Since their first goal is Peace, they understand the olive branch has been extended by Israel ... they also extend their own olive branch !!
Er, no ... they move into the now vacant territory and 1) In Palestine the begin to shoot rockets deeper into Israel than they were able to before. Instead of using this land that was 100% theirs for the first time in a long time to settle and begin their state, they use it to attack Israel. They build a tunnel and kidnap 1 soldier and 1 civilian (the civilian they kill) on Israeli soil (Israeli soil ... I know liberals have a soft place for sovreignty) 2) Hezbollah moves all manner of weaponry into the now vacant space ... in direct opposition to a UN resolution calling for Hezbollah to disarm. They also kindap two Israeli soldiers.
During the time of the withdrawals of the aforementioned spaces, Israel makes no move to re-enter them and abides by its word that it withdrew to stimulate peace.
Now ... is Israel perfect? Nope. Does Israel have the only moral position? Nope. Can anyone think of any other country that would allow terrorists to kindap its citizens on their own soil and not smash the piss out of them? Any country? How do you all suppose Iran would react of Israel took 3 of its soldiers on Iranian soil .... Anyone have a guess?
Stop being stupid people ... Israel withdrew and Hamas/Hezbollah used that withdrawal against them ... period. Why should Israel ever trust them again. For those of you who think that Israels response is not commensurate with the crim ... why? Should Israel not bomb the crap out of Hamas and Hezbollah because they have a superior military. Where is the rule that whoevers military is stronger, they have to handicap themselves to the level of the opponent. My thought ... if the H & H crew doesn't want to get bitch slapped, don't act aggresively to a sovereign country that's stronger than you. And all the weeping and gnashing of teeth here on TP for the loss of innocents in Palestine & Lebanon ... you're right, it is horrible, but the H & H crew must bear responsibility, not just Israel. If I go into a bar and punch the biggest guy in the face, I can't 1)say his father treated my father like crap, so it's ok 2) say he's evil because I just punched him but he put me in the hospital and 3) get angry because the guys with me got beat up even though I did the punching ...
The fact is, Islamic extremists don't want peace ... they want an end to Israel. How many concessions must Israel make and the surrounding Arabs abuse before we all get that. The silver lining ... many Arab nations have tried to smite Israel in the past ... how'd that turn out for them? Egypt and Jordan learned their lesson ... recognized Israel ... and, holy Moses, no more problems between those nations !!!! What a miracle !!! It's almost as if the Israelis want peace !!!! So, keep blaming Israel ... they're the bad guys, the agressors ... ignore that whole peace treaty and lasting peace with the Arab nations who agreed to it ... Israel is evil (sinister laugh).
July 18th, 2006 at 8:32 pmGregor,
Maybe you haven’t realised it yet, but the Gaza strip is in the Middle East. And the ongoing Israeli military offensive there is also part of the “current Mideast conflictâ€.
Your ignoring the context of the questioning in today's press conference, just like the draft resolution did. Lebanon, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria. Pay attention.
HELEN: The United States is not that helpless. It could have stopped the bombardment of Lebanon. We have that much control with the Israelis.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:34 pmYour ignoring the context of the questioning in today’s press conference, just like the draft resolution did. Lebanon, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria. Pay attention.
Comment by Gene Frenkle — July 18, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
I wasn't replying to that question, pay attention. Or read the post I was actually replying to.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:48 pmSnow what's new. The sons of Bushs are arrogant, bald-faced chronic liars.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:50 pmI dont think he said anything wrong.. sorry
July 18th, 2006 at 9:07 pmBoycott the W.H. Press Room. Send Tony Snow a message. He can show up and give a press conference to no one.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:07 pmIt'll make him extremely happy, keep the press away.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:08 pmZooey, have you noticed how many of the trolls and roaches that post for the reich winged are spewing violance.? Many have even taken screen names that are offensive..
Comment by Sharon Cox
Sharon, I have noticed. It seems like this latest mess in the Middle East has them ripe for a feeding frenzy. Do you think that they forgot if the earth is blown to bits in a nuclear war, they get blowed up too? Peace...please....
July 18th, 2006 at 9:10 pm#147-Delbert,
An interesting "critique" I must say, but I'll attempt to respond.
In regard to you calling me "sanctimonious", please refer to something specifically. All I deliver are truths and descriptors that help to hammer the point home. I have never claimed, nor do I feel, that I am superior to anyone here or anywhere for that matter.
As far as what I'm doing, I can say without reservation or compromise to my conscience that I am doing everything I can. Can you say that? And, if you are waiting for me to present what I do to you for your judgement and assessment, well, that will be a very long wait. If you have a challenge to the truths I speak, then challenge them. If all you want to do is figure out a way to label me or see how I rate on your "scale" then you are but a partisan hack who cares nothing for mankind and is only interested in servicing your own ego and/or greed.
If it is your need to dismiss me as being a "troll", go ahead, it matters not to me. Now, for you to question my belief in Peace and accuse me of using such messages for nefarious reasons, well sir, you are just being a fool. Does Peace scare you? Are you offended by the word "Peace"? Is the concept of someone wishing Peace upon you and humanity so foreign to you that you need to make light of it to hide your insecurities in its regard? Truly bizarre and disappointing.
You know, how can you be desirous of Peace when all that you want to do is fight? Something for you to contemplate.
May peace be with us all.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:11 pmGregor
Oh, this post? Sorry for confusing your reply to my post as being a reply to my post.
There is no resolution calling for ceasefire regarding the current Mideast conflict that has been voted on by the security council.
Comment by Glen Frenkle — July 18, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
Here is the link to the full text of the resolution: United States Vetoes Security Council Draft Resolution on Events in Gaza, on the UN’s own web site.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 18, 2006
July 18th, 2006 at 9:12 pmI get it now. You weren't responding to my post. You were shifting the argument.
Also, here is a comprehensive list of U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel, courtesy of the non-profit Jewish Virtual Library.
This list includes the latest US veto.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 18, 2006
July 18th, 2006 at 9:15 pmhumanist,
i've asked before, but don't recall you ever saying...
where do you live?
i can't even comment about what you say until you divulge where it is you're from. i've asked several times and you won't say. it gives you an unfair advantage to anonymously attack americans (not to mention the total lack of insight we get by not knowing the source of the attacks and consequently, the context).
nothing you say here has any validity or any weight unless you are honest and courageous enough to at least say from what country you're doing the complaining.
absent that, i'll have to assume that you're either dishonest, you lack courage, or both.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:35 pmHumanist:
I agree with almost everything you say about our country with the exception that Marley noted that our country was stolen by about a quarter of our population. That population is made up of wealthy idealogues that are greedy, ego maniacal, religious hypocrites that have created an American social structure that they now politically corrupt to suit their nefarious purposes. Sort of Muktadr al Sadrs in Brooks Brothers suits and cowboy boots. This group of people that Bush, Cheney, Rove, Card, Addington, etal are the power broker's pawns of, are really incompentent assholes. But wealthy and getting wealthier as they exploit the system they now control and manipulate for greedy financial gain. But not all wealthy people become nefarious assholes, look at those that are trying to really protect freedom and truth like Ted Turner and George Soros.
Anyway, Bushco ideology seems to soothe and simultaneously excite loyalty from another quarter of our population which is represented by brain dead "Mighty Aphro..." on here and other neo-cons like MA that are in some pre-rapture snideness state of mind. This "Mighty Aphro" group are the audience of Michael Savage, Ann Coulter, and Rush "the Druggie. These are the fantasy loving neo-cons which is permeated by arogance, blind nationalism and have picked up a knack for double talk, "Forked tongue" as they were noted by the natives of our country.
The rest of us have either never believed the hype because we were either liberal, intellectually open minded or by some other synchronicity have transcended the more vicious or dogmatic lifestyles of the neo con and the religious right wing nuts. However, as hard working class people have to earn their livings by working, it takes a lot for average independent minded folks to band together to rid themselves of the scourge of the "inhumane" people that control our powerful financial, political and religious organizations. While those of us that are humanist, or at least libertarian, in our philosophical bent are a majority, it is the very humanist and libertarian sensibilities that ironically have allowed the right wing fascists to take over the reins of our government. Please don't lump me and the average consciencious American with those that have taken the dark path.
Bush is the epitome of those who do not have wisdom but have ill gotten power. We're doing our best to get rid of him and his crew, but it always takes time to correct some of history's great errors.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:01 pmThe fact is, Islamic extremists don’t want peace … they want an end to Israel. How many concessions must Israel make and the surrounding Arabs abuse before we all get that. The silver lining … many Arab nations have tried to smite Israel in the past … how’d that turn out for them? Egypt and Jordan learned their lesson … recognized Israel … and, holy Moses, no more problems between those nations !!!! What a miracle !!! It’s almost as if the Israelis want peace !!!! So, keep blaming Israel … they’re the bad guys, the agressors … ignore that whole peace treaty and lasting peace with the Arab nations who agreed to it … Israel is evil (sinister laugh).
Comment by Giacomo — July 18, 2006 @ 8:32 pm
So what the heck do those of us belive that don't have a horse in this(other than it could lead to WWIII or WWIV.?? lost track. I mean like 1000 years ago one of these parties were wrong and I think only God is keeping score. Have a nice day all.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:36 pm#160, Liberty is the root of liberal, you said:
"Humanist:
I agree with almost everything you say about our country with the exception that Marley noted that our country was stolen by about a quarter of our population. That population is made up of wealthy idealogues that are greedy, ego maniacal, religious hypocrites that have created an American social structure that they now politically corrupt to suit their nefarious purposes."
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Humanist,
I forgot to point out that I did not call you uneducated but I said you made an uneducated comment about what I stand for. I agree with most of what you say but I do not agree with your broad statements about Americans. We are made of many colors and many different backgrounds... I can't agree with your whole rethoric.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:40 pmI get it now. You weren’t responding to my post. You were shifting the argument.
Comment by Gene Frenkle — July 18, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
Let's recap:
ThinkProgress: "The AP reports the United States blocked an Arab-backed resolution Thursday that would have demanded Israel halt its military offensive in the Gaza Strip"
You: "TP is so stupid. There is no resolution calling for ceasefire regarding the current Mideast conflict that has been voted on by the security council."
Me: "Well, there is one. Here is the link to the full text of the resolution on the Gaza Strip"
You: "That resolution does not mention Lebanon. Never mind that I said Mideast. Plus you are ignoring the context *I* just made up that includes Lebanon"
You are right. I thought it was someone else. I didn't believe it possible for the same person to be so obtuse.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:01 pmliberty is the root of liberal and marley,
there's really no point in trying to justify ourselves to someone who attacks americans but won't say where they're from. humanist has been doing this for quite a while, and still refuses to state his/her location.
i really don't find any validity to anything humanist says until he/she makes the minute effort of divulging this information, which is obviously relevant to the conversation, given the attacks.
so, once again: humanist, do you care to tell us where you are located?
July 18th, 2006 at 11:03 pmotherwise, there is no point to addressing your comments.
Would you be so kind as to convince your Hispanic, Latino, and/or Chicano brothers and sisters who happen to be in the US illegally that THEIR home countries MISS them terribly. I recommend you tell them how GREAT their countries are - it seems alot of them have forgotten.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — July 18, 2006 @ 8:09 pm
Sorry for answer this. I wouldnt mind what you say: it fluctuates from boring to really boring. But since you made a racist comment I feel entitled to respond. I am not a mexican, chicano or whatever description you try to make, I guess based on my name, which of course, just speaks loud about your ignorance regarding geography. In some past thread I was encouraging to go out of your beloved country and meet different people, just to compare what you are being told from whats the truth. I guess you didnt even grab a map.
Of course, I feel sad about immigrants, people forced by their own country´s economical system to leave their land in order to earn higher incomes. I absolutely blame Latinamerican governments for following economy laws dictated forcefully by US companies and world credit institutions, lets not forget about that. By the way, dont complain too much about immigrants cause they constitute an important part of US army forces... you know? those poor kids you so eagerly support to get killed.
And they dont forget about their lands. Remember those last immigrant marches? Compare the amount of foreign flags against US flags. Whether you like it or not, mexicans will recover the territory you took from them back in 1846.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:14 pmBe scared. Is what you do best.
Israel abducted two people the day before the first soldier was kidnapped but the rulers of the world don’t care for you to know this.
Oh please. Another Noam Chomsky parrot.
Two anonymous people who have no names and no family to claim them but it must be true Noam Chomsky said it on Democracy Now!
idiot.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:18 pm"the",
i'm curious as to why you feel as you do about noam chomsky?
is it just a general feeling of dislike because he's ideologically different than you, or can you actually cite any instance where he's misrepresented facts?
he does happen to be both a tenured professor at mit (for over 50 years) and a jewish man.
it's just that you make these comments as if mr. chomsky's opinion is immediately supposed to be discredited, but i can't recall anyone actually ever discrediting him. he even recently lectured at west point.
so can you actually cite a real instance when mr. chomsky was proven to be discredited and therefore ceased having a valid opinion?
or is it just because you don't like what he says?
July 18th, 2006 at 11:55 pmHelen Thomas is smart and Tony Snow is stupid > enough said!
July 19th, 2006 at 12:20 amMore power to you Helen
I'm sure she does not espouse the Hezbollah view. That's simply childish drivel as is normal White House behavior - childish, stupid, malicious.
But - we need more Hezbollah advocates - because the US has iintentionally unhinged the balance of power in the middle east to further the corporate agenda of keeping the oil supply in the ground and keeping the armament profits flowing.
War upon war - makes for billionaires - and what better way than to get countries small or large to bomb each other than to pretend, as Bush does, to promote peace and democracy, when he really promotes war and destruction.
THe evil that these men and women do is unsurpassed in human history
July 19th, 2006 at 12:38 amTP says before they retracted:
Thomas asked Snow why the U.S. recently vetoed an Arab-backed U.N. resolution calling for Israel to halt its military offensive in Lebanon.
Qatar: Let's propose a draft resolution that ignores the current conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, with the aid of Iran and Syria. Maybe Helen Thomas will think it's a cease-fire directive that will stop Israel from taking out Hezbollah.
Helen: US could stop the bombing of Lebanon. They vetoed a cease-fire resolution.
Gregor: This post is not about Lebanon, Hezbollah, Iran or Syria or the conflict between Israel and those who are firing missiles at them today. It's the current event in the Mideast? It's what everyone is talking about? Day and night in the media? Let's talk about the Palestinians instead. What the hell, let's include everyone in the Mideast, except Lebanon, Hezbollah, Iraq and Syria.
TP made the correction. So should Gregor the Carp.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:42 ammemphis minnie,
You are in desperate need of an English reading comprehension course.
Part of the topic of the thread is the US blocking a UN resolution calling Israel to stop the military offensive in the Gaza Strip.
ThinkProgress' correction states exactly what I said.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:12 am#167- "...but i can’t recall anyone actually ever discrediting him. he even recently lectured at west point.
so can you actually cite a real instance when mr. chomsky was proven to be discredited and therefore ceased having a valid opinion?"
Comment by ProgREX
*****Dear Mr. ProgREX - Perhaps "THE" has different reasons for disliking the opinions of Noam Chomsky, but let me enlighten you as to why many conservatives detest his assertions. He is a vehement anti-capitalist who despises the EVERYTHING about the United States except his Constitutional protection to air those views without fear of retribution. But most relevant to what is occuring in the world today:
"In May 2006, Chomsky traveled to Lebanon and met with Nabil Qauq, Hezbollah leader in Southern Lebanon, who took Chomsky, his wife, and fellow university professor Fawwaz al-Trabulsi on a tour of Al Khiyam prison[5]. Many on the American right have cited this event as evidence of Chomsky as a sympathizer with terrorism, and Lebanese criticized Chomsky's visit as well." - Wikipedia, "Noam Chomsky"
And finally, Comrade Chomsky, is a affiliated with the Industrial Workers of the World (as is his right) whose mission statement includes the following nugget which will warm prog hearts all over the planet:
"Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth." - http://www.iww.org/culture/official/preamble.shtml .(This sounds a tad like the tired, well-worn and failed Marxist system of economies....why am I not surprised?)
Good night....
July 19th, 2006 at 1:55 amNighty nite MA > tell Karl Rove hello for me at your hair cutting Salon in DC tomorrow > lol.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:03 amso, mighty tripey, you're saying it's purely ideological.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:13 amthat's what i thought.
[...] Click on image to view video in your browser. (QT 7 MB) Video via Think Progress. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 5:22 amThe attacks get too personal in these comments. It is more productive to dixcuss the ideas put forth. As for Communist vs Capitalist, it seems obvious that a mixed economy is the answer. Straight Capatilism with no taxes and no public services would be terrible. Communism with all public ownership is equally awful. The discussion should be about how much personal and how much private and we work it out. At the present time with our roads , bridges, water , prisons, schools and military being privatized, I think the pendulum has swung way too far toward ownership by a few rich people.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:29 amMost of us don't want war , but we have war. Why? We are a republic with democratically elected representitives. Why are they not listening to the majority of the people? Because a few people with money have bought their influence. Humanist is right about this country as far as the government and main stream media would have it, but I believe the majority of Americans are much much better than that and that we do care about others.
First check out the Jerusalem Talmud, Psalms, Chapter 127 Tractate Haiga 76c where it states that the State of Israel is an "Heretical Regime". Judaism itself is a carnal religion. But Torah-Judaism does, does not condone the Zionist State's Genocidal Megalomaina. Otherwise, all Jews would be allowed to do anything because they are the chosen people. The psuedo-Christian Right are the same, though they claim to be "saved" and thus free to break every commandment by God and by Christ.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:43 amI have not seen the 'left' attack Judaism in any way. Many Jewish people vote 'left'.
The 'left' in America do not decide what Israel should or should not do. Those who do come in here and accuse the left of being Anti-Semitic and terrorist appeasers are silly and quite off the mark.
This is the latest talking point of the freepers that leftists hate Israel or they hate the Jews. Not so, Leftists dislike war.
The Republican, or anyone for that matter, who comes here and calls these 'leftists' haters of Israel are in effect saying "Leftists Hate War" or "Leftists Love Peace"
Just so you know there are Zionists that Are Aryan. The White non Jewish supremacist types and many still think the Bell Curve is proven medical research. This an example of this supremacist logic. Zionism is extreme in its nature.
If you want to see the Zionist [Supremacist] minions at work head over to the freerepublic blog and look at the remarks over there. It's Shocking.
Equally shocking is to think that we have such a group of humans, who to this day, can't see past the color of their skin or the religion they practice.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:56 amThe psuedo-Christian Right are the same, though they claim to be “saved†and thus free to break every commandment by God and by Christ.
Such is the Organized Neo-Con Hypocrisy
July 19th, 2006 at 6:02 am"In May 2006, Chomsky traveled to Lebanon and met with Nabil Qauq, Hezbollah leader in Southern Lebanon..."
if guilt by association is fair game, then you must also detest rumsfeld for meeting with saddam.
oh, you don't?
you must also detest reagan for giving osama guns and money.
oh, you don't?
you must also detest the bush administration for meeting with the taliban 5 weeks before 9/11, and giving them $132 million in aid that year.
let me guess- you don't.
oh, but carter also gave osama guns and money. and i seem to recall that you detest him.
so rather than being rational about deciding who you detest, you're purely ideological.
they've been nurturing this enemy for a long time.
they being our government. they gave terrorists, inc the startup capital it needed to go global.
ultimately, i blame us. we keep putting these schmoes in charge. we need a third party, publicly funded elections and term limits.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:30 amcalling the UN the VN would be something remarkable for any marxo-liberal assclown who thinks the UN has any integrity whatsoever.
Helen rarely offers any valid questions... just typical flame-baiting from someone who thinks the poor Palestinian terrorists are being oppressed by Israel, the UN, capitalism, and the bombs that they strap to themselves.
And why the badmouthing FOX News? You don't see me badmouthing CNN for doing irrelevant stories on the President of Liberia or giving that fascist Lou Dobbs a job.
SAVE AMERICA FROM COMMUNISTS... VOTE REPUBLICAN
July 19th, 2006 at 7:00 amThis is crazy, we need to hear the facts but the MSM isn't reporting them.See the facts about Lebanon, Israel, Gaza Hezbollah and the Palestinians
In that video, Noam Chomsky reveals facts like the abduction of the two Gaza civilians June 24, BEFORE the Israeli soldiers were captured. Learn the background that the mainstream media doesn't report.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:02 amWhile listening to NPR on Tuesday I learned that Israel has more than 9,000 prisoners, including women and children, who will never go to trial for their "crimes". Children who threw rocks are rotting in jail!! Is this how America learned to do the same? I am so ashamed. How can this administration continue to "wait" while hundreds of innocents are being killed in Lebanon?
Watching the video of Bush at the G8 with the open mike....disgusting. So nonchalant, so invested in buttering his roll and talking with his mouth open - didn't his mother teach him any manners? People dying? Oh, yes, well I have to butter my roll.
I went to see An Inconvenient Truth and cried - my tears for our Mother Earth were mixed with my tears of sadness that a true leader, an intelligent, wise man was robbed of the presidency by evil. And look what has happened. How, oh, how are we going to make it through the next two years. Will there be anything left of us? Not deceny, not humanity. I cry for all of us trapped in this machinery of radical evil.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:42 am#178 - "so... you’re saying it’s purely ideological.that’s what i thought.
Comment by progressaurus rex
*******Dear ProgREX, You did not comment on Noam Chomsky's visit with Hezbollah leaders this past May. That goes beyond simple disagreement on "ideologies". "In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one's nation or state. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor."
Noam Chomsky is a traitor - he consorts with and promotes an enemy of the United States of America - Hezbollah. Prior to the attacks by alQueda, Hezbollah was responxible for more American deaths worldwide than any other terrorist group. (I'm sure Hezbollah leaders appreciate have such a learned supporter as THEIR "useful idiot".)
While I disagree with every political utterance that falls from Chomsky's
mouth - his treasonous ACTIONS are my main reason for my intense distrust and dislike of Noam Chomsky.
Busy day...again!
July 19th, 2006 at 11:41 amWhoops
July 19th, 2006 at 11:57 amhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204315,00.html
July 19th, 2006 at 11:57 amTony Snow is a brilliant man, and frankly, I think he knows a bit more about what is going on that all of you Lefties do. What a bunch of idiots you are. And for anyone to criticize America's human rights is ludicrous. Do we employ a caste system, as in India? Do we slaughter women who are raped, have sex out of wedlock or date a man without a chaperone, as in Arab countries? No, I don't think so. If you hate America so much, then get the he-- out already. We're sick of you.
July 19th, 2006 at 11:58 am#185 - "if guilt by association is fair game, then you must also detest rumsfeld for meeting with saddam....you must also detest reagan for giving osama guns and money.
oh, you don’t?" -recycled Comment by ProgREX
*****Dear ProgREX - Thank you for your illuminating "history" lesson! I was NOT aware Noam Chomsky had diplomatic credentials from the United States!! Please provide sources so I too can learn of this under-reported diplomatic breakthrough!!!!!
Re: "Guns and money to Osama" - Zzzzzz... I apologize! Osama HAD plenty of money and purchased plenty of weaponry with that money. In addition, I guess you forgot Afghani rebels were engaged in the Cold War with your friends the Soviets and the US did assist in providing hardware....
P.S. After you provide the information about Ambassador or Secretary Chomsky's credentials., I'll re-think my opinion that the Prof is a traitor.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:23 pmhelen thomas is nothing more than a senile left wing toad who should have retired years ago. She gave clinton a free pass for 8 years and now that her party is out of power she has proven how partisan she is.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:34 pmIt's not surprising that emotions begin to run high in these posts considering the high stakes of current events. It is however, counterproductive to the end goals of us all- and I must believe that everyone here wishes to create a sustainable world for ourselves and our children- to engage in name calling and bashing instead of constructive dialogue. The problems we face are collective problems and the responsibility for how we got here and how we resolve our most pressing concerns needs to be shared in order to be effective.
Think of the children you love and the future you desire for them as you type your comments here and perhaps the discourse will rise to a level worthy of serious consideration.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." - M.K. Gandhi
July 19th, 2006 at 1:44 pmI am not American, but i can understand the outrage people are having at current middle east situation, but i will say problem here is religion, every religion preaches peace they say , but people who preach religion , dont spread peace they spread hatred , religion of its own is good idea ,but religious fanatics are nuts , problem with religion is that if you are not educated you will follow it blindily , most of christians and jews are educated masses , and they are not religious fanatics in majority , but islam on other hand has followers who are mostly uneducated or at the best taught in religios schools , and Islam has never learnt to live in peaceful existance with others , show me one country which is Islamic thought secular , may be Malaysia , but they are exception may be , but all others are the root cause of problems in world today , there is no free thinking in muslim world which causes them to react in very irrational way , like terrorist activities .seeing world with one eye which is religious is dangerous, and things as i see can only get worse before people realise religion is the root cause of all the evil today
July 19th, 2006 at 2:41 pmVN stands for Vereinte Nationen, which is German for United Nations. Get your facts straight. And how great it is to finally put Helen Thomas in her place!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:27 pmI would disagree with the assertion that religion is the root of all evil in the world today. The perversion of religious values for political and economic gain may be more culpable. What we need, in my opinion, is mobilization and action by individuals and groups who believe in the power of spirituality to foster the creative potential of humanity. Refusing to pander to the basest tendencies in others and in ourselves and dedicating our energy to promoting alternatives that demonstrate universal human dignity and ingenuity could generate solutions instead of merely condemning the problems and those who've actively participated in causing them.
I am, at times, discouraged by the ostensibly infinite stream of chaotic, tragic, and terrifying events in our world but I cannot allow myself to be paralyzed by the magnitude of it all. I must stay connected to the part of myself that believes we can create something different, better to bestow to our children. That part of me is undeniably spiritual and exists in all human beings.
Despite the claims of those who would pigeon-hole Islam and its adherents as violent by nature, there is little difference between the vocal and active minority within the Muslim world and those who have, throughout history, distorted and exploited the principles of Christianity, Judaism, and other religions for their own ends. The less vocal majority of people- both religious and secular- must get over our fearful paralysis and speak out for peace and justice. We must recognize what is happening and act to change it through as many ethical means as we can devise. And we must never forget that our means must be ethical. As Dr. Martin Luther King stated- we must not believe that the ends justify the means- you cannot achieve moral ends through immoral means. Even if the neocons and other extremists are willing to resort to promoting their agenda by any means, we cannot follow their lead.
I would suggest to anyone here who has an interest in what can be done that you seek out Peace Studies resources on the web or at your local library. There is a wealth of information on non-violent social/political action, great essays and books that inform and inspire, and links to groups you may want to join or support.
There is no way to peace - peace is the way. AJ Muste
July 19th, 2006 at 3:27 pmI get a deep sense of relief after seeing the general tone of these comments. More than ever, I'm convinced that the Democrat party will NOT be regaining a majority in Congress any time soon. Keep ranting, you bunch of maniacs.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:30 pmF U "Humanist", I am offended by your broad generalizations, because you're flat-out WRONG- especially the people on this website. Now, if you had made these comments on a Fox News blog, you'd be hitting the right people. There are millions of decent, caring, Americans here, and I'm one of em'. I shouldn't even be taking time off from writing a grant proposal to help distribute gleaned produce to poor people, of EVERY color, to respond to your complete ignorance of the character of the nearly 300 million in this country. Go f*%k yourself. It's the Republicans, stupid.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:43 pmhey if you are cindy sheehan i want to know did you starve yourself to death yet for peace?? you can't die! you ARE the original moonbat and south american communist supporter. Traitor!
July 19th, 2006 at 7:17 pm"It’s official. If your thought process strays outside the framework that dictates that US and Israel are always right and always justified in everything that they do, you are part of the problem."
I submit that the same sarcasm can be applied to those for whom the Muslims/Palestinians are always right.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:31 pmLet's remind Moonbat that Cindy Sheehan has lost a son at the hands of the very vicious top admin we are so vehemently speaking of. We The People...
Now, is it okay to say Peace?
July 19th, 2006 at 8:36 pmVN stands for "Verenigde Naties" it's dutch, maybe he's secretly a dutch spy.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:39 pm# 205 see, it's folks like you who reinforce Ann Coulter's theory that liberals have their "untouchables". Can nothing be said about her or against her because she lost her son?? Hell no. I AM sorry she lost her son, I truly am. Nobody deserves to lose a son but she injected herself into the public spotlight moreso than most and as such she puts herself fairly in the line of criticism and conjecture just like any public figure from the pres on down to you and me. Losing a son does not make you immune once you step into the spotlight and grab the microphi=one and denounce your own president in the company of a communist dictator.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:54 pmand herin lies the problem in my humble view. Now Ms Sheehan was I am sure a very amicable, peaceful person plodding along just like the rest of us do in life. Her son sadly got killed and she was understandably mad and hurt and heartbroken. Then she gets absconded by and in cahoots with the far left anti- war establishment which of course has some prety strong and clearly visible ties to communist and scialist sympathizers. Don't believe me? good . I don't blame you. but for your sake check it out. How does a woman lose her son in a war and a few monthe later get on stage with an avowed socialist anti American "president" in South america?? tell me please who made the contacts? who paid for flights and accomodations? Gee I wonder? This poor woman has become the MADD mom who loses her son in a car crash and now we all have to take breathalyzers at roadside "checkpoints".
She is being used in her agony and pain to ulterior motives by folks who seek to destroy or at least screw up America really, really bad from within. She is a puppet and a pawn. and please tell me what persons or entitiy is paying for her "roadshow and tour"?? where is all the money and logistics coming from? Why did this poor woman get "chosen" to be the voice of the anti war movement??
"Why did this poor woman get “chosen†to be the voice of the anti war movement??" - Comment by moonbat patrol
******Dear Mr. Patrol - Cindy Sheehan did not get chosen to be the voice of the anti-war movement - she VOLUNTEERED. Not unlike her dear son Casey who volunteered to serve our country not once, but twice. Now Casey's poor mother must lay the blame on someone else for her son's patriotic career choices; given there is no draft. (It's much easier for a mother to blame the President or an administration.) Sadly, Casey's heroism is drown out by his mother.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:27 pmCalling people who their land has been stolen with the aid always of the american war machine and support , Terrorist , and over looking the fact that two terrorist steas as is USA and Israel have build both their countries on the blood and gonocite of the populations rightfully living there , and both after declaring the land their country proceed to inflict and be the master minds almost to all atrocities comited in this world for more than a century , and watching people quoting this policy to call the victims terrorist and the REAL terrorist as actually some inocent victims trying to bring peace defenting them selves , by bombing women and children and excusing them as tho they defent them selves it goes to show you what abominations of nature this countries are and what citizens they produce .
Dont you people feel any shame or you so well gone into your ignorant ways and brainless talk ?
I deeply apologize to any of our american brothers for this truth I say of their country but at the same time I feel shame for their coward ways that allow a hand full of retarded satanist to control them and direct their life and their childrens lives with no say from them . May be is time we all take some lessons from this so called according to the bush regime and the other abomination called Israel , terorrist as to be free is not enough shooting your mouth and P..y Cry it comes a time you must also do something about it beyond the theoritical philosphical ways all of you doing here .
July 19th, 2006 at 10:37 pmVN vrs UN
We know that in German a V is pronouced like an 'F' ---so VN can be FN,
We also know that in Latin the V is pronouced like a 'W'---so VN can be WN.
UN, VN,FN!!
No wonder Tony was snowed.
So good to put wolf in its place, wherever that is.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:35 am100% pure blooded American! Almost 70 years old and from a family of veterans dating back to WWI - no, make that The Civil War and the Revolutionary War. That said - I have to agree with most of what Humanist says. What does it hurt to look at any issue realistically?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:25 amI will present myself as a target for name calling from all who have posted so far, because I am the dreaded "M" word, moderate. That's because I an issue oriented - conservative on some issues and liberal on others and don't care one way or the other about other issues. I try to set priiorities as to the most important issues and try to find what is real - very hard to do with the spin going on, the political rhetoric and just plain lying.
Just because we deny something does not mean it isn't true. When we get defensive, name call and slam others, we are playing right into the Republican "divide and conquer" hands. I ask, "What is the common ground here?" We have to find it and unify. That is what will change this government and get rid of the stranglehold that the Republicans have right now.
I, too, saw "An Inconvenient Truth". I really liked the ending when we were challenged to do what we can about global warming. (Whoever blogged that there is no such thing, please read my comment above about denial before you slam me.)
Let's take Al Gore and Humanist's suggestion and take action in whatever small ways we can. I am not buying the "Be afraid and let your government protect you." I'm not afraid of all the fearmongering that this administration and the Republicans spew all the time about "bird flu", be on the alert for terriorists lurking around every corner, give up everylast bit of your privacy and rights 'cause we know what's best for you. WRONG!! The people in power do not know what is best for you or me. Humanist is right, we are the government! Let's unify whether the power brokers like it or not! They would hate it if we got together and did not buy their every spin on issues and decoy issues that they throw in the mix.
I have plenty more to say, but enough now!!
If you look at the transcript, Thomas does mention Lebanon and PALENSTINE. Snow kept on about G-8 and EU, and some stand up routine(just like his boss), and Thomas kept pressing over and over again about the U.S. blocking of a resolution and Snow out and out lied to the press right to their face, and all they could do was laugh at his buffoonish behavior. Thomas must be so frustrated and feel so alone when other members of the press, are so afraid to call snow on the carpet. Not even one so called newsperson with a backbone to back up the last bastion of freedom. It's no wonder we are in so much trouble, w/ an asshole like snow able to get away w/ calling a member of the press a terrorist sympathizer and get a bunch of guffaws by the clueless media. It actually makes me physically ill. We need to stop buying their papers and funding their newstations until they grow a pair.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:44 amAphrodite, I will simply say this: you are wrong, utterly wrong, about
July 20th, 2006 at 3:47 amNoam Chomsky's activities. If you actually listen to him speak, actually
read his books, what comes forth is the greatest love and concern for
this country. He repeatedly says, We have a duty as Americans, given
as we are the Constitutional powers to have real political discourse, to
bend our efforts toward causing political decisions that will help everybody:
the Israelis, the Palestinians, the Red Staters, the Blue Staters, everybody.
Yes, he is against war, as I am. I challenge the view that war is an essential
human enterprise. In fact, I believe that if we fail to learn how to interact
without violence, the days of the human species are numbered: for sooner
or later, Very Bad People will get their hands on Very Bad Weapons, spawned by the millions through HUGE expenditures of U.S. tax dollars (with healthy loans
from the nice people in the Peoples' Republic of China, God help us.) Aphrodite,
I ask you to consider carefully the following proposition: it is not being a traitor
to speak out against U.S. policy, specifically the sale of weapons to just
about every tinpot dictator the world over who is willing to pay The Price for them,
which is, of course, bending to the will of those in this country who think it is our
God-given right to control every resource on this planet. In forums like this, we
need to have a discourse that recognizes, and respects, the opinions of others.
Otherwise, only violence can follow. I refer you to nonviolent movements of the
last 50 years that have led to successes, such as the overthrow of Milosevic (NOT
due to NATO bombing, but due to an absolutely incredible grassroots movement
that arose in Serbia from nothing.) It is clear than Noam Chomsky speaks in
support of all humanity, and criticises violence and war whereever it occurs: he
has roundly condemned the violence visited by the FSU upon its former satellites
and others elsewhere in the world, as well as the NAZIs, the brutality in Africa and
East Timor, by Pol Pot in Cambodia, and, yes, also the U.S. in Indochina and elsewhere. Let's all work together to make our country work better, and then to help to
mitigate atrocities, horror, starvation and the like all over this planet. We can
do it, but only if we do it cooperatively! Here is a goal you can support, and upon
which we can find common ground, I deem.
#213 - Bill,
July 20th, 2006 at 8:49 amThank you for suggesting one point for common ground. We can make an impact if we are together. There are other issues that we can agree on.
Infighting will only help the Republicans keep their power. I'm not one to roll over and play dead or let them shut down my thinking. If we can support each other in documenting the facts, citing references for the cynical of which I am one and find out what is the truth behind all the rhetoric, it will help to find common ground and to develop a course of action. One's action doesn't have to be big, just little things done by everybody who is willing that will support a position/cause.
I am cynical about anything that any politician says (Yes, the Democrats, too, until they porve themselves and are CONSISTENT) and cynical about EVERYTHING that this administration and its minions say.
We should not be in Iraq. Without a doube, Saddam was bad. So are a whole lot of other dictators in the world. Just why Saddam was selected to be taken out as opposed to the many other candidates? Guess he no longer served the purposes of the powerful. Rummy and he appeared to be real buddies when they stood smiling broadly together for that photo op. Our young men and women are being killed and maimed by weapons which to a great extent came from the US in the first place.
It is a sick mess and if I let myself get too focused on the "ain't it awful" stuff that has happened and continues to happen, it is incapacitating. I/We need to keep our focus on the important things and do what we can a little at the time and collectively and cooperatively. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!
Well at least the good new is that when it comes time to fit the Bush baddies for their orange jumpsuits, Tony Snow will be getting his too. I think all of these right wing pundits should do a shift at the white house, so we have something to prosecute them for.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:10 amHas anyone pointed out that Helen Thomas' parents were immigrants from Lebanon? That makes her question seem more understandable, and Phony Snowjob's response seem more mean-spirited.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:56 am#209 - "I deeply apologize to any of our american brothers for this truth I say of their country but at the same time I feel shame for their coward ways that allow a hand full of retarded satanist to control them and direct their life and their childrens lives with no say from them...." - Comment by, Hard Head
******I think the first time I was called a "satanist" was at a Democrat fund raising dinner after the first Gulf War. Mr. Aphrodite (a lifelong Repub) was nice anough to go with me. (He said he needed a good laugh!) A couple seated at our table were a very nice acting couple, she was from Pakistan, he was from Syria. The husband, an electrical engineer asked about Mr. Aphrodite's occupation (he was still an active duty Marine colonel). When his wife and I started discussing political issues we were in agreement on almost everything EXCEPT US support of Israel. We could have continued our discussion civilly until her "buttinsky" hubby "lost it". (She was terribly embarrassed....)
The second, third and fourth time I've been referred to the bowels of hell or called a satanist has been on "prog blogs" - who knew????
July 20th, 2006 at 2:26 pmReading through the comments, albiet not all, there is a lot of talk about taking our country back. Vote, it's good for you. But don't think for a minute things will change to suit you. As long as political campaigns are privately financed, all legislation is for sale. PUBLICALLY FINANCED CAMPAIGNS are the only way to clean up this mess.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:38 pmMighty Aphrodite, just go ahead and keep on being smug while the world, and our country, goes to hell in a handbasket. Read the prog blogs, laugh away, make your worthless comments and be SO pleased with yourself that you've told us liberalnazifascistcommieterroristsympathisers off. You really do admire yourself, don't you? I bet you're the kind of person who steals someone's parking spot they've been waiting for, makes a waiter's life hell then leaves less than 10%, shall I go on? Tell me I'm wrong. Oh, and Aphrodite was the goddess of love, not self-righteousness.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:53 pm#213 - "Aphrodite, I will simply say this: you are wrong, utterly wrong, about
Noam Chomsky’s activities." Comment by Bill Peppin
******Thank you, Bill - I appreciate the level of your conversation. A person can be wrong about the facts relied on to form an opinion but they can have facts and arrive at a differing opinion - often this difference is based on point of view. I have read Chomsky and watched his interviews on PBS and elsewhere. I do NOT doubt his sincerity - I doubt much of his foreign and domestic policy positions. (As one so adamantly opposed to the US economic system and political decisions, I think it is commendable that he is such a FINE example of the First Amendment.)
If Noam Chomsky participated in a "meet and greet" with Osama bin Laden instead of the leaders of Hezbollah (as he did in May of this year) I would view him in the same terms. He has no business meeting with terrorists - not even to examine their nuanced linguistic patterns. He is not a credentialed diplomat, journalist or representative of the US - yet he consorts with terror leaders responsible for killing Americans. Please provide an example of Prof. Chomsky's "seal of approval" on ANY domestic or international undertaking (besides Roe v. Wade & disaster relief) of the US government.
Believe it or not, I despise violence and the deaths of innocents. IF peaceful means always resulted in peace, I would agree with you 100% on a non-violent stance. Rational people, who disagree can reach agreements. I suspect suspect Hitler was not amenable to compromise, no matter what he told Prime Minister Chamberlain.
I don't believe we "control every resource on the planet". The last time I looked, we PAID for the resources we used. Who knew the purchase of a vital national interest could contribut to the world's economy?? (My goal energy wise is to grow our own energy and be free of the tether of oil.)
Thank you for the opportunity to tell you that I disagree with you on several levels but appreciate the points you made.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:04 pmMighty, maybe I was wrong about you, that was actually a gracious response to #213, and if you despise violence and the death of innocents, well, you're not the heartless creature of hades I thought. You're still smug, though. Seriously. As for the original topic of this, Snow was out of line with the "Hezbollah view" comment, that's just plain wrong, self-serving and childish. Shameful.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:28 pmp.s.- M.A.-read an earlier post of yours... global warming not real? Did you realize virtually EVERY scientist in the world NOT being paid by Exxon and Co. agree on two things? Global Warming IS real, and human activities ARE the cause. You're not stupid, in fact, you seem fairly bright as much as I despise your rhetoric, but your view on that issue is unbelievably ignorant, please research the subject! It's important that everyone understand how critical the situation is, as this issue is way bigger than everything else- the survival of the planet and all god's creatures! Including us. Would it hurt to even consider the possibility? Just believing that there's no way us tiny humans could have any effect on the climate- which does fluctuate naturally, yes we know that- is a terribly narrow-minded opinion. Peak Oil is just around the corner anyway, since the switch to alternative energy/fuels is inevitable, why NOT employ clean technologies? Can you also say, "reduce our dependence on foreign oil" and "create jobs at home"? Anything wrong with that?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:49 pm"I believe we are going through a NATURAL process..." Well, science is not a matter of faith, the facts are there. Glad to hear you recycle. Best wishes, despite our differences, just try to keep an open mind, and understand that we all want what's best for the country- and the planet- but these guys in the White House, they're really screwing things up for everybody, across the board. Aloha
July 20th, 2006 at 5:46 pm[...] Via ThinkProgress. [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 6:36 pm[...] Tony Snow thanks Helen Thomas for the Hezbollah view. Laughter and folksiness from the White House representative as a ceasefire is discouraged by the US (it needs “proper conditions†according to Secretary of State Rice). [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 7:11 pmYOU SNOT NOSE.
July 22nd, 2006 at 5:22 pmHELEN HAS MORE INTEGRITY IN HERE TOE THAN YOU OR GEORGE CAN EVEN IMAGINE.
I can't believe U guys UR debating who is right and who is wrong even when there is no base for debating.
We have all studied physics and the first thing we learn is that for every action there is a reaction equal to it, but this is not the case here Isreal made such a fuss for 2 soldiers and destroyed a very beatiful country while it holds thousands of labenese in their prisons for most idiotic reasons.
I say let them continue bombing Lebanon as it will only increase the hatred in the arabs hearts toward Isreal and the US, then these 2 will deal with the consequence of making the whole world there enemy.
July 22nd, 2006 at 5:56 pmArab- Spoken like a true 7th Century Intellectual!
July 24th, 2006 at 3:38 pmThank You Very Much Tony Snow!
July 25th, 2006 at 8:57 amHelen Thomas needs to go back to school, something is definitely wrong with her educational background as well as temper and manners. In fact, it is not known to me what is right about her.
Welcome, One Jew. As I have mentioned before, I am STUNNED so many American Jews, with their generous support of Left-wing politics, i lend credence to those who would see Jews wiped off the face of the earth....
Busy day...
July 25th, 2006 at 12:09 pmmighty aphrodite> Thank You for your generous support.
July 25th, 2006 at 12:40 pmI think You are right - for as long as Jewish people keep squabling there is going to be no Peace for Israel, well Peace for Israel actually spells the END of WWIII - the war against terror.
[...] The irrational disconnect doesn’t stop there, and in fact, WH Spokesman Tony Snow completely disgraced himself and the white house in an exchange with Helen Thomas this morning. After incorrectly claiming the U.S. didn’t “veto” a statement regarding “Gaza” at the Middle East at the U.N. or as Snow called it: “…the V.N. — the U.N., whatever it is,” he went ahead and belittled the reknown Bush-critic Thomas by adding, “Well, thank you for the Hezbollah view.” Watch Now: Tony Snow Bashes Helen Thomas [2:43m]: Play Now | Play in Popup document.getElementById('podPressPlayerSpace_397_label_videoPlayer_397_0').innerHTML='Hide Player'; document.getElementById('podPressPlayerSpace_397').title = 'videoPlayer_397_0'; One Response [...]
December 12th, 2006 at 4:46 pm