Bush Bars Media From Stem Cell Veto
Bush Bars Media From Stem Cell Veto
Today, President Bush will veto his first piece of legislation – a stem cell research bill that “could lead to treatments that save millions of lives and improve the quality-of-life for millions more.†Apparently, he’s not too proud of it. Moments ago at the White House press conference, Tony Snow announced that no press would be allowed at the signing:
SNOW: The president will, however, before he delivers remarks this afternoon, veto the Castle bill.
Here’s how it works, because I know a lot of you have had questions. There will be no photographers, no ceremony. What the president will do is, in his office, he will sign a veto message, he will hand it to a clerk, who will convey it to a clerk of the House, and then you go through the formalities of announcing a message from the president, and at some point the House will vote on the veto.
QUESTION: Is there a reason why he’s not having photographers in, at least?
SNOW: Because he doesn’t feel it’s appropriate. He’s signing a veto.
67 percent of Americans support embryonic stem cell research. The same percentage believes “It would be terrible if cures were delayed because of policies that make embryonic stem cell research difficult.”
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It’s always nice to see that politics comes before science, innovation and humanity.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:52 pmMorons is as Morons do!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:53 pmWe don’t need no stinking science! We need +- 1600 year old Science Fiction! /sarcasm
July 19th, 2006 at 1:53 pmWhat happened to bring em on? We don\’t fear terrorists, but we do fear the media?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pmBless his heart. always looking out for our best interests…
July 19th, 2006 at 1:59 pmSNOW: Because he doesn’t feel it’s appropriate. He’s signing a veto.
irony?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:59 pmjeez, what a trip…
Nothing to see here, move along.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:59 pmThe dirtiest of deeds are done in the shadows.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:59 pmUnited States to Israel: you have one more week to blast Hizbullah
The US is giving Israel a window of a week to inflict maximum damage on Hizbullah before weighing in behind international calls for a ceasefire in Lebanon, according to British, European and Israeli sources.
READ SOURCE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER
July 19th, 2006 at 2:00 pmSeixon or MA might come onto this thread, so good luck everybody fighting the Bush trolls > lol.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:01 pmHe’s vetoing a piece of legislation that a majority of American’s support – no wonder he wants to do it in the closet – what a putz.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:01 pm“So, Uncle Karl…. can I use my Star Trek, Borg, “Resistance Is Futile,” 4-in-1 pen to sign this here negativeto? Huh, can I, can I??”
July 19th, 2006 at 2:01 pmIts the first veto by a U.S. president in 5 years and the first by George Bush and its not something which is worthy of historical or public interests.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:03 pmOf course I’ve seen more that enough of Bush’s face but historians and lovers of horror stories might want some evidence later.
what does that mean “the house votes on the veto” what do they vote on?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:04 pmThey couldn’t find any blastocysts that could stand behind him as he signed it.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:06 pmMrTimPA,
Are you saying that the will of the majority should dictate our laws? What a novel idea! Let’s have the people decide lots of things starting with Abortion. Sound good to you?
rivitor,
HoR is voting on overriding the Veto. They will fail.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:08 pmI implore all of you to ignore #16 at all costs.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:09 pmAnd for those who support his veto: It looks like even George W. Bush is ashamed of being seen with you.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:10 pmAfter he signs it, he’s hoping he’ll get to cut the pig. What a jackass.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:10 pmBush’s brain is clearly missing some ESC’s
July 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pmI hope that someone in Old Bushies family comes down with a disease that could of benefit from this stem cell reserch. This is all about the Religious Right to get there way. Votes, Votes, Votes that all the Right Wing Nuts think about.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pmYes, ignore #16. There is no benefit to engaging – been there, done that, quit that.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:18 pmLet’s not beat around the bush with this BS. This is really about Bush protecting his buddies at the established giant pharmaceutical industry. Big brother Pharma only makes money by selling medicine to the sick and it is not in their financial interest to cure ANY disease. If they allowed stem cell research to prosper into cures then they’ll lose their sick and dieing customers who would otherwise have to continue to pay whatever price it takes to get their medicine to feel better, get better, but never cured. Therefore, in reality, Bush promotes keeping working Americans sick because it benefits the pharmaceutical industry to do so.
Isn’t it obvious, Bush is Anti-working class American. He will never represent anyone who is not wealthy and part of his inner circle. He represents those who aim to turn our middle-class and poor Americans into work slaves, addicted to medicines and in debt to the wealthiest dominate corporations for all time. If our government was created to keep big business in check to protect the people, then Bush is Anti-American and has taken part in the molestation and deformation our government.
As long as Bush (or Bush-likes) and this type of GOP stays in control America will ultimately head towards destruction, and in the end when all the smoke clears these criminals will be long gone bringing on a new form of slavery from afar.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:18 pmHe doesn’t have time, see, he’s planning to don his flight suit once more and start flying rescue missions over all fertility clinics in the US to free all of the fertilized eggs. It’s to be called Operation BlastoStorm.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:19 pmCan we veto Mr. Bush!!!
Vote anything but republican so we can impeach this asshole!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:20 pm#23: “There is no benefit to engaging – been there, done that, quit that.” – - Sounds like our foreign policy.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:20 pmGW Botch doesn’t have the guts, balls, spine, etc. to make a public appearance on this veto. However, he and his Kool-Aid guzzling buddies will be promoting this to the most conned Repugnicans on earth; the Christianist ReichWing. What a Pander Chimp! And the moron Christianists will once again vote against their own best interest and side with this unelected-ever, Bushit! He and they are stupid beyond self-preservation!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:20 pmCNN:
President Bush has issued the first veto of his presidency, rejecting a bill to expand federal research on stem cells obtained from embryos
July 19th, 2006 at 2:23 pmHe just made that public appearance, AFTER he vetoed the bill in secret. He just spoke for 10 minutes, lying in almost every statement. Making up fantasies that appeal to the 17 uneducated theocrats that this record setting veto will appeal.
I am in awe at the level of support that still remains for this frat-boy.
I miss having a president…
July 19th, 2006 at 2:24 pmI apologize for being crude. But only one word comes to mind – CHICKENSHIT!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pmMrTimPA,
Are you saying that the will of the majority should dictate our laws? What a novel idea! Let’s have the people decide lots of things starting with Abortion. Sound good to you?
No, I’m suggesting that Bush can’t have it both ways – he approves of private industry “killing” embryos – but is against any federal dollars supporting such research.
And, it seems funny that in this case you question my assertion of the “majority” – yet in the same-sex marriage issue, you probably agree with the right-wing-nuts saying “but the majority of Americans” oppose same-sex marriages, so let’s make it a constitutional amendment.
Majority SHOULDN’T dictate law in this country.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pmDid you see the adorable snow flake children on TV? These embryos can be adopted and raised like any other children, and it is our duty to protect their lives.
I would never accept treatment for ANY condition that was based on killing a child.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:27 pmdixie blood,
Perhaps the President knows how divisive this will be and does not want any pictures used by the Democrats in campaign ads. Perhaps he knows how seriously the liberals in this country take this issue and does not want them to see him smiling with delight as he crushes them and their hopes for cures to presently incurable diseases.
You know, you win more flies with honey and all that jazz.
Tough talk on the internet and pansy-assed campaigns seem to be the MO of the Dems/Libs/Progressives. Why is that?
Maybe if you tried to understand what was importatnt to the voters that actually vote and gave them some crumbs, you could use them to win something. You and your ilk won’t do that. We will.
That’s why we’re gonna keep on winning.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:27 pmI hope that someone in Old Bushies family comes down with a disease that could of benefit from this stem cell reserch. -Mary Polins
Unfortunately, stupidity and greed are not among the diseases potentially cured by this research or his whole family would benefit.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:28 pmBar just admitted on ThinkFast thread that he is a paid GOP agent to hijack the TP threads onto other subjects of his choosing!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pmMrTimPA,
Okay. It just seemd to me you were using the fact that the majority of Americans supporting something carried some sort of special weight. If it does not, then why state your original argument that way?
You set yourself up. Don’t get mad at me for taking a swing.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pmFor Bush, it isn’t appropriate to be seen caving to the right wing. It’s not appropriate to look shameful infront of the cameras. It is not approriate for Bush to feel uncomfortable making his first veto.
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July 19th, 2006 at 2:31 pmJay please proved everyone a link to that admission. I’d like to see it.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:32 pmDid you see the adorable snow flake children on TV? These embryos can be adopted and raised like any other children, and it is our duty to protect their lives.
What a sucker you are. Adopt a ’snowflake’ already, or shut up.
Oh, and has anyone thought about asking pregnant women in Lebanon and Iraq what they think about George’s high moral stance?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:32 pmOh yeah Neil, becuse gay marriage and flag burning are the two most important issues facing this counry.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:32 pmWhat a jerk!!!! It would be only appropriate that a member of the Bush Crime
July 19th, 2006 at 2:33 pmFamily comes down with something that could be helped by stem cell research.
But again, we already know who the first member of that family needs help –
of course — Georgie Boy. It is just a matter of time. The only problem is — we don’t know much time to waste to keep our democracy.
I would never accept treatment for ANY condition that was based on killing a child.
If you were wasting away from cancer, and the cure involved the sacrifice of a small child, you’d wield the knife yourself.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:33 pmSNOW: Because he doesn’t feel it’s appropriate. He’s signing a veto.
Hahahaha! But…but…doesn’t Bush think it’s in the best interest of America to veto this bill? He’s preserving life by doing this…right? Isn’t this a gift to all the so-called Christians who value life? Seems like he’d want all the cameras and reporters they could stuff into the room there.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:33 pmNothing will be gained by engaging Bar.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:33 pm#33 – Neil: “Maybe if you tried to understand what was importatnt to the voters that actually vote…” Are you blind, an idiot, or both? Did you not read the statistic that a MAJORITY of people i n this country support stem cell research?
Those people WILL be voting in the next election.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:34 pmWith 2/3 of the public in support of expanding stem cell research, and Bush vetoing, can anyone in the Democratic party leadership say, “out of the mainstream?”
July 19th, 2006 at 2:36 pmDid you see the adorable snow flake children on TV? These embryos can be adopted and raised like any other children, and it is our duty to protect their lives.
I would never accept treatment for ANY condition that was based on killing a child.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 19, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
No problem – then do your part and adopt several thousand of these embryos. Get all your friends to do the same – otherwise don’t be a hypocrite. And this “killing a child” is utter BS – these are tiny clusters of cells that are going to be destroyed anyway.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:37 pmInfertility is a condition that is treated by creating embryos for IVF, many of which do not get implanted and become babies. There are lots of people walking around, conceived by IVF, who wouldn’t exist without the creation of extra embryos.
If you’re against stem cell research using these unimplanted embryos, you also have to be against IVF, and you should be in support of a federal ban on the practice. Good luck.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:37 pmThe guys over at Conservatives For American Values did a couple of posts on this topic:
“I Am Proudly Anti-Cure”
and
“We Must Stem the Tide”
These guys crack me up.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pmI propose a Congressional “signing statement” which says they don’t have to follow the veto and can appropriate funding for stem cell research…
Wait, only the Decide..ahem..President can undermine the Constitution. My bad.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pmLol Bar > everyone go to ThinkFast thread today > post 141 Bar 2:17PM > he admits he is a GOP agent and fraud!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pmFrankly, what a coward! The only veto he has dared to do is one about a (relatively) non important issue. I mean, he had a good couple of items in his desk that he doesn’t liked and, until now, he has played dumb to not sign them, or has signed and not followed them. Now, he sees a relatively inocuous theme and, wanting to give a strong image, dares to veto it, hidden, and then come out of the closet. What majesty from a USA President.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:41 pmNewNamboy and Krazny
I never said that Gay Marriage and Flag burning were important issues. But, if they get folks riled up and ready to vote my way, you’re damn sure I’m gonna use the beejezus out of them.
Same thing goes for Stem Cell research.
Let’s see which issue resonates more with the voting public in November.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:41 pmAlso post 148 by Bar a few minutes ago on ThinkFast thread is very revealing of him as well
July 19th, 2006 at 2:42 pmJust saw Bush on the tube surrounded by starry eyed mommies, “thanks for saving all the babies Mr. Bush”. Except the ones they throw in the trash you friggin’ dolts!!!! Pander to the dwindling base, chimpy. Your ass is still going down. IMPEACH!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:43 pmI just watched Chimpy’s press conference about his veto. As an inbred redneck i found it unforgivable that he would actually presume to “lecture” scientists and physicians on three things he knows nothing about: science, law, and ethics. Stem cell reseach is supported by 70% of citizens in the US and millions will die needlessly because of his veto and the ensuing delay in developing stem cell technology. He and his family will get treatment in countries that allow stem cell research because they have millions while we as run of the mill citizens will die. Thanks you stupid evil bastard for killing members of our families, the citizens you say you are protecting.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:43 pmDon’t cure illnesses, don’t save lives, lets just kill, kill and kill some more. Lets do no good, because good isn’t glamorous, and doesn’t make for photo opportunities. Yeah, I cheer your governments choice of going for stuff that will win the ruling party votes, rather then stuff that will actually benefit Americans, yeah I like the fact that this potentially life saving research, which BTB is using cells that would otherwise get thrown out as medical waste, has been the only veto of Bush’s presidency up until now. Yeah I really like the fact that Bush is governing for the Republican Party and NOT for America. You Liberals are all just pussies for being against him on that one. /sarcasm.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:45 pmI hope that someone in Old Bushies family comes down with a disease that could of benefit from this stem cell reserch. This is all about the Religious Right to get there way. Votes, Votes, Votes that all the Right Wing Nuts think about.
Comment by Mary Poplins — July 19, 2006 @ 2:14 pm
Well, Bush apparently doesn’t give a damn about the horrible suffering that Ronald Reagan went through near the end of his life. Love him or hate him, the man and his family did not deserve to go through what they did. Oh, Bush will say he cares, but in the end if there is any chance that future generations could benefit from ESC research, he has just given them the middle finger.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:45 pmDid you see the adorable snow flake children on TV? These embryos can be adopted and raised like any other children, and it is our duty to protect their lives.
I would never accept treatment for ANY condition that was based on killing a child.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 19, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
How about freezing a child, Jason? Do you support the freezing of embryos? If they are children in the embryonic stage, is this not child abuse?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:49 pm56 Neil
July 19th, 2006 at 2:49 pmIt’s all about winning and not about importance or being right. Thought so. Thanks for the confirmation.
Stupid is as stupid does.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:50 pm[...] Bush Bars Media From Stem Cell VetoThink Progress, DC - 1 hour agoToday, President Bush will veto his first piece of legislation a stem cell research bill that could lead to treatments that save millions of lives and … [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 2:53 pm#33Maybe if you tried to understand what was importatnt to the voters that actually vote and gave them some crumbs, you could use them to win something. You and your ilk won’t do that. We will.
That’s why we’re gonna keep on winning.
Comment by Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
Thanks for confirming that the GOP is much more concerned with winning elections than the betterment of humanity or the wellfare of it’s citizens.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:53 pmone more time!
jason – this one’s for YOU!
Stem Cell Research Living Will
be sure to have all your friends and relatives sign on!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:54 pmleaves more for those who deserve the research benefits!
thanks!
Mr. Bush say’s murder is wrong.
Unless your Arab
Or Poor
Or Middle Class
Or making Minimum Wage
Or a Liberal
RIP
SGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 Inf
KIA 03 Feb 05
Mosul, Iraq
Or as Tony Snow and the Repuppetcans would say
#1462
July 19th, 2006 at 2:54 pm[...] Moments ago, Bush made a statement at the White House discussing why he vetoed a bill expanding funding for embryonic stem cell research. (The media was barred from covering the veto itself.) Bush explained, “these boys and girls are not spare parts.” Watch it: [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 2:55 pmPLC (PatrioticLiberalChristian),
Yep winners get to make the rules. I want to be on that side of the equation.
Then and only then do things happen. Once a winner has been decided, the winner establishes the agenda. The winner doles out the money. The winner appoints the judges.
Why wouldn’t you want to be the winner?
Would you rather be right or advance your agenda?
Perhaps there was a time when doing/being both could occur but not any more. The game has changed and the first thing you gotta do is win.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:55 pmIn response to the comment by Jason M. Hendler # 32
Did you see the adorable snow flake children on TV? These embryos can be adopted and raised like any other children, and it is our duty to protect their lives.
I would never accept treatment for ANY condition that was based on killing a child.
Were these “Snowflake children” only adorable because they were snowflake white? I wonder why they didn’t have any black/latino/asian/etc. children on there.. Maybe because only white embryos are privileged enough to be adopted. Just shows the inherent racism that pollutes this society.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:01 pmGeat Neil, and when your kid dies of cystic fibrosis at 8 years old when he could have been saved by stem cell therapy (we would have a 6 year head start with government support by now) I hope you take great solice in your words – as you bury your son.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pmSadly, I think he might be playing winning politics here. Over at Dailykos, there is a thoroughly depressing account of how the primary season is going. It seems that Dems are not turning out, but the radical right, as usual, is. And he made them very happy today.
I am also depressed by the media stonewall of the real underlying issues here: Bush’s logic would mean that in vitro fertilization is wrong. Dobson, et al., know this and outlawing that is indeed an ultimate goal of theirs. This is similar to their attacks on Roe v. Wade: it is a stepping-stone for overturning Griswold v. Connecticut (which said condoms couldn’t be outlawed).
July 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pmNeil
I would rather be right, then further my agenda. My agenda can do people a lot of harm if I am wrong. I can go down in history with my name noted alongside such luminaries as Nero and Verwoed, if I further my agenda but I am wrong.
I would rather be correct, then further my agenda, because if I am correct, my “agenda” will be met anyway, as it is not trully mine but rather simply the truth. By the simple fact that I am correct, I will win eventually anyway. Even if I die before that time comes, I will have won. The power of being correct is slow, it builds over time, but in the end, it is overwhelming.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:06 pmA very prominent member of the Bush family is afflicted with a disease that possibly, on down the road, could be cured by stem cells and their research.
It is George W. Bush, who suffers from Alheimers.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:09 pmI never said that Gay Marriage and Flag burning were important issues. But, if they get folks riled up and ready to vote my way, you’re damn sure I’m gonna use the beejezus out of them.
Same thing goes for Stem Cell research.
Let’s see which issue resonates more with the voting public in November.
Comment by Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
It’s all about you, isn’t it?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:09 pmMaybe because only white embryos are privileged enough to be adopted. Just shows the inherent racism that pollutes this society.
An excellent point. We have thousands of children who are waiting to be adopted, but because they aren’t white, people don’t want them, so they spend thousands of dollars to create a nice, white baby from blastocysts. In the meantime, the taxpayers pick up the tab for the unadopted children.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:10 pmHey, what happens to those snowflake kids who grow up to be Democrats?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:12 pmYep winners get to make the rules. I want to be on that side of the equation.
Then and only then do things happen. Once a winner has been decided, the winner establishes the agenda. The winner doles out the money. The winner appoints the judges.
Comment by Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 2:55 pm
Neil,
You are comical. So you’d rather see a ban on flag burning, which would benefit no one, instead of, say, a universal healthcare plan that would benefit tens of millions of Americans.
So explain to us just how a flag burning ban would benefit you. Give you warm fuzzy feelings every morning as you awakened, knowing that the fifth piece of cloth we call the flag will not be burned this year?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:12 pmBluedog,
Yep you saw what we’ll do to get into power. Not pretty but it worked.
Bruce,
You and I are inherently different then… I want to advance my agenda becasue I know it to be right and I want it done now. To do that I gotta win and win now. So, I do what it takes to win and advance my ideology.
Being right is great, doing right is better. I am doing right and doing so right now.
I win. You lose.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:14 pmBob,
Nope, it’s about winning.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:15 pmAt the core of this debate is the question: “When does life begin?” How you answer this question should decide your position on embryonic stem cell research. If you do not believe human life begins at conception then there is no moral dilemma and you most likely support the idea of embryonic stem cell research. If you believe, as I do, that human life begins at conception, you cannot in good conscience support the destruction of innocent human life through embryonic stem cell research or by its close cousin abortion. The potrential glorious end of curing or treating diseases simply does not justify the disturbing and appalling means by which we are to get there.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:16 pmGeat Neil, and when your kid dies of cystic fibrosis at 8 years old when he could have been saved by stem cell therapy (we would have a 6 year head start with government support by now) I hope you take great solice in your words – as you bury your son.
Comment by bones — July 19, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
No. If a cure is found in the future for cystic fibrosis thanks to ESC research, Neil still would say he was right in opposing such research. This is because people like Neil and Jason can’t admit they are wrong, even when the facts prove them wrong.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:17 pmAmit – don’t be depressed, 70% of the country thinks stem cell research is right and 70% want us out of Iraq. 70% of the country is on the side of the democrats, just register to vote and give your friends and neighbors a lift on election day.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:17 pm“I would never accept treatment for ANY condition that was based on killing a child.”
Jason Hendler, I hate to break this to you, but the Earth is NOT flat.
A Blastocyst is about as human as the millions of skin cells that fall off your body everyday.
I assume you have no problem with “treating” the “life threatening” condition of “terrorist threats” by using federal dollars to drop bombs on living, breathing, developed, out of the womb human beings, now do you?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:18 pmNeil
No, you simply don’t care about it. You want to win, but you don’t want to be right. You will sacrfice everything to win, everything down to the lives of those you love, in order to win, and you will lose, because in the end your agenda is false. It is compromised by your methods, your hatreds, and your loathing of yourself.
In the end you can’t win, because you cannot change once your course is set, and you will destroy yourself. This is my prophecy unto you, that each action you have done to further your goals shall take you further from them, that each win for you will be a loss, as each successful strategy turns in on itself. When the time comes for you to stand, you will find your head staring at the grass, for each principle you have sacrificed, each concept you have set to flame, and each freedom you have fought against, undermines that which you fight for.
In the end, you lose, and the universe wins. That is the only thing anybody can ever be sure of.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pmOh give it a break. Veto signings are not a ceremonial process. The media covered an entire 15 minute speech on the video. Get over it.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pmWC,
You misunderstand or I wasn’t clear enough.
Flag burning is a BS issue so is Gay Marriage. Neither of which means a damn thing to me. Seriously, how are two gay men establishing a legal bond going to have any impact on my life? How is a burning flag gonna do anything to me? Conversely, I don’t see how banning them adversly impacts me either.
I don’t care about these issues. The sheeple do. So, I’ll advocate for these and push ‘em as part of my agenda. They’ll then vote the way the Conservatives want them to vote and then we can work the real agenda.
Come on folks, you know this is true. You may not like it but it works.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:20 pmNope, it’s about winning.
Comment by Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
How far are you willing to go to win?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:21 pmBruce,
Lay off the hemp dude.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:22 pmHey H. Barnette, you do understand that if the bill was signed into law only embryoes that would be destroyed anyway would be used. There are about half a million fertilized eggs pending being thrown out, washed down the drain, or incinerated as medical waste. This is going to happen, this veto doesn’t change that fact. So flush it or use it to help real living people. I gues your answer is flush it, I don’t see the republicans stepping up to adopt half a million embryoes.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:22 pmComment by H. Barnette — July 19, 2006 @ 3:16 pm
But discarding them with the rest of the trash is acceptable. Right?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:24 pmNeil
Your course is set, and I cannot change that, your soul has already been sold cheap. Support your Republican masters for now, and see how well they further your goals.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:27 pmBernette prefers to flush em rather than get some use out of them.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:28 pmResponse to #94:
I guess you haven’t heard of the snowflake babies.
Destroying ANY embryos for ANY purpose is wrong and as a country, we should not allow ANY embryos to be conceived without some assurance they will have a chance at life.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:30 pmWhen the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Martin Niemöller
July 19th, 2006 at 3:30 pmWhen a person dies in a car crash we get the FAMILY’S PERMISSION to donate their organs, we don’t go to Congress to squabble that we are screwing up their chance to go to heaven because God can’t keep track of their parts(important because this used to be a religious law and in some places is still the “moral” standard). These embryoes are going to die (if you believe they are people), they are going to be destroyed, we should be able to ask the FAMILY’S PERMISSION to donate their stem cells.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:31 pm[...] As ThinkProgress also notes: Bush made a statement at the White House discussing why he vetoed a bill expanding funding for embryonic stem cell research. (The media was barred from covering the veto itself.) Bush explained, “these boys and girls are not spare parts.†Watch it: [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:32 pmThanks Burce, I’ll do that.
I have a nice house, a lovely wife, 2 great kids and a grand child on the way.
Life couldn’t be any better really.
What’re you gonna spew next, that I’ll get mine ’cause of Karma?
Pshaw! Most toys wins Bruce, the most toys wins.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:32 pmResponse to #100:
Wrong. They will only die when a person like you destroys them.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:32 pmBernette, dude, sorry to burst your bubble… but 99.99% of these embryos will NOT be used to create a “snowflake baby”.. So why not give the other thousands of embryos the chance to do something useful in their short lives.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:33 pmBrought to by our Fascist in Chief!!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:33 pmOh, I get it. Since “Liberals” like Hollywood’s Michael J. Fox (and the late Christopher Reeve) are in FAVOR of expanded Federal funding for stem cells, the the Repub-nuts MUST be against it. Stupid partison-only logic FOOLS…
July 19th, 2006 at 3:34 pmNeil,
I’m still waiting for an answer to my earlier post (#92). Exactly how far are you willing to go to win?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:35 pmPoor, poor Neil,
July 19th, 2006 at 3:35 pmWhen the cancer starts to eat you from the inside out, your stupid toys wont be any help.
I guess you’re also HIGHLY religious too?
Neil,
You have got it backwards, my friend.
The people in this country didn’t give a damn about flag burning until the Republicans in the government told them to. In other words, they “riled up the base.” In the nearly 2 years that have passed since the 2004 election, flag burning was not at the top of the agenda as it has been in the last month or so, was not any threat to the existence of this country, and people weren’t exactly marching in the streets by the millions on July 4, 2005 demanding Congress and the states take action.
But since we are nearing a Congressional election the Repubs have pushed it to the top of the list.
In other words, the Repubs declare that it is one of the two most important issues facing this country (in a recent study once posted here on TP, in nearly 200 years there were all of 44 flags burned in the U.S.), and people start saying “Oh my God. Do something!”
July 19th, 2006 at 3:36 pmResponse to #104:
If embryonic stem cells prove useful, then there will be a demand for them which in turn will lead to a new industry that goes out of its way to create and destroy embryos. In Star Wars, this path is called the “Dark Side”.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:37 pmOoh,
More Science fiction references from the Right! (#110)
You guys crack me up!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:39 pmWrong, sees that’s why it helps to know what you’re talking about. Current in vitro requires reaping multiple eggs and fertilizing multiple eggs – you can’t do it one at a time. Numerous implants will fail and numerous fertilized eggs will be left over after pregnancy occurs. There currently is NO OTHER WAY to do this. So what you are advocating is (a) outlawing in vitro/fertility treatment or (b) forced repeat pregnancy for the couple until the numerous excess fertilized eggs ahve been implanted in the woman. Then get off your ass and pass these laws, don’t veto bills that make use of medical tissue that is going to be destroyed TODAY. Nothing the Prez or Congress did today addresses the destruction of half a million fertilized eggs, if that is truely your point, and I believe it is, then address that.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:39 pmBob,
I wouldn’t kill anyone. Short of that, whatever it takes.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:40 pmGuys, go try this stuff at NewsMax or something. They’ll kick your a$$ out. You’ll all argue about anything with anyone anytime. It’s very easy to get you off topic and off message.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:41 pmComment by Bar — or neil, or jason, or randy, etc…
Comment by DieNowForPeace,
Nope, I’m worm food in 20 years or so… why do you ask?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:42 pmNeil,
July 19th, 2006 at 3:43 pmBecause your “ME ME ME” attitude wont buy you anything except becomming worm food. Have a nice, shallow life!
Bernette: For your information, ESC’s have already proven to be very useful… why don’t you read up on it a bit so have something other than Star Wars to reference.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:44 pm51 — Thank you for linking us in your comment. I am glad to see it was on-topic. Please don’t link to us unless it is. Thanks again!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:45 pmSo, H. Barnett, I suppose you are telling all the couples that want to have a child through IVF that you want to deny them that right. Correct?
Can’t conceive a child the natural way? Tough.
What’s next, Mr. Barnett? Stop all medical research so that cancer patients can die a slow and painful death, Alzheimers patients can suffer, and people like Christopher Reeve can just stay in their wheelchairs for the rest of their lives because medical technology is interfering with God’s will and we should just let nature take its course?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:45 pmWC,
And your point is?
If the base didn’t get all riled up about it, we’d find something else…
SO WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU OR THE DEMS GONNA DO TO STOP US?
Nothing. That’s what you’ll do. Nothing.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:45 pmNeil
You wouldn’t kill anyone, but you would turn a blind eye to anyone that did. You are the German in Martin Niemöller’s poem, and you will come to the same realisation one day. It is not karma or fate, but rather natural consequences, for each person’s rights that you will deny, be it a gay man in San Francisco, a child dying of Cancer in Florida, a protester on the streets of New York or a prisoner in Gitmo, your rights will so be taken from you. This is the result of blind obedience to power you only think is yours.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:46 pmNeil,
What is it that you want to win? And what do you propose doing with the losers in this fight?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pmResponse to 112:
Sometimes victories come incrementally. The bottom line here is that you don’t think the embryos are human and everything you say is an effort to justify your position. I on the other hand, believe with all my heart that destoying human embryos is murder and we should eradicate any legal process in our country that facilitates their destruction.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pmOh, now I see Neil is very, VERY afraid of the BIG BAD WOLF.
Booo!
Will you cry, or beat your wife when the Dems re-gain a majority?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:49 pm#123,
It would appear, then, that what we have here is a draw.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:49 pmDieNowForPeace,
Come on now you know that isn’t why you asked. You want me to be a fundamentalist/born-again/holy-roller type christian so you can show off what you learned in some 101 survey religion class you took at the community college.
Be man or woman enough to have some sort of consistency.
Preach to me. Show me the error of my ways.
pssst…. you should all really listen to Katy
July 19th, 2006 at 3:49 pm#123
July 19th, 2006 at 3:50 pmYou missed the point of post #112, because you can’t see the forest through the trees…
Neil,
July 19th, 2006 at 3:51 pmIf I was a preacher, I’d hang up my robe for good upon meeting the likes of you.
this deserves a repost, from the rove thread… my emphasis ;
Perhaps I’m thinking about this all wrong, but I think Bush’s stance on stem-cell is very consistent with and motivated by his usual support of corporate interests… it doesn’t surprise me at all.
Here’s what I’m thinking… the data from federally funded research is sort of public domain… the data are published in journals and anyone can take the data and attempt to develop technologies from it…this promotes healthy competition (a small innovative biotech firm can be on an even playing field with a large multinational corporation) and we the people, who foot the bill for the research in the first place, benefit.
However… if we do not allow federal funds to support stem cell research, the research will be done (and I feel quite confident it is being done as we speak and Bush is stalling) by large corporations with the resources to do this (remember the pharmaceutical companies that this administration has been so supportive of??) Data from that research is proprietary. This allows those companies to develop their own technologies from that data with minimal competition.
And further with fewer competitors… they probably will get to charge more for whatever technologies they do develop. And that is why Bush has no interest in actually outlawing stem cell research. This is just another example of this administration helping out their corporate buddies. Does this make sense??
Comment by KirinRain — July 19, 2006 @ 1:41 pm
yes, of course…
July 19th, 2006 at 3:52 pmI on the other hand, believe with all my heart that destoying human embryos is murder and we should eradicate any legal process in our country that facilitates their destruction.
Comment by H. Barnette — July 19, 2006 @ 3:47 pm
Then you and your wife/wives better get busy, there are 400,000 of these things out there. How many are you willing to adopt and raise?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:52 pm…and become a Satanist, so I could join your ranks.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:52 pmSo Barnette, you are saying no more in vitro, period. Fine. Try to pass that law in Congress, oh yeah, that’s already been tried and massively defeated. The people of this country would not tolerate that. SO, since it is the law that in vitro is legal and excess embryoes will result from in vitro and they will be “killed” by being burned as medical waste then what is your solution? All I’m saying is since they will be “killed” anyway, not some vague ethical arguement but real world fact, better to use the cells than burn them. Millions of people who would suffer and die will benefit.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:53 pmResponse to 119:
I do not believe it is God’s will that people suffer from these diseases and I would love to see a cure for all of them. I want a cure that comes without killing innocent human life.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:55 pmListening to Katy is a good plan.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:56 pm“…murder is wrong”
“there is nothing that makes research illegal” (paraphrased)
so, if there is a profit, it’s not murder…
July 19th, 2006 at 3:56 pmoooooohhh…
Yay Katy
July 19th, 2006 at 3:57 pm#134
July 19th, 2006 at 3:57 pmI’ll second that. You should try, Neil!
[...] George Bush vetoed progress today. Congressman Jim Langevin is rightly outraged: Congressman Jim Langevin (D-RI) today expressed profound disappointment in President George W. Bush’s decision to veto legislation promoting valuable, lifesaving medical research that could ease the suffering of millions from devastating illnesses such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. In the first veto of his entire tenure, the President struck down H.R. 810, the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act, which passed the House in May 2005 by a bipartisan vote of 238-194 and the Senate yesterday, also by a bipartisan vote of 63-37. “This veto does not stop embryonic stem cell research, but it certainly slows it down at time when government-supported research in other countries is excelling,” said Langevin. “This research will now continue in the private sector with insufficient funding and a lack of government oversight, all while millions of people wait for cures to devastating diseases. Their hopes have been dimmed by the President’s action today.” The best part? Bush veteod the bill in secrecy. From the White House press conference with press secretary Tony Snow: SNOW: The president will, however, before he delivers remarks this afternoon, veto the Castle bill. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:57 pmQUESTION: Is there a reason why he’s not having photographers in, at least?
SNOW: Because he doesn’t feel it’s appropriate. He’s signing a veto.
Since when is signing a veto like taking a dump?
Only when the President is doing so symbolically…
July 19th, 2006 at 3:59 pmgee … gosh … how to take a virtual bow?!
(do remember that #129 is not MY comment – credit KirinRain)
thanks!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:00 pm[...] Bush went five and a half years without vetoing a single piece of legislation, but he broke his streak today, rejecting the bi-partisan stem-cell research that enjoys broad support among lawmakers and the public. Apparently, the president was a little embarrassed about it — he blocked media access. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 4:01 pmKaty could teach all of you a few tricks…
What’s this this thread about again? Oh yeah, stem cell research and stuff…
Some of you are much better than others, I’ll give you that much…
Your firebrands are sorta pathetic though. One burned out hippy and a community school drop out…
Maybe I should head over to Kos and see if Bar or Neil can at least get some folks riled up instead of listening to y’all bemoan the unfairness of it all…
Grow some balls or you’ll contiue to lose
July 19th, 2006 at 4:02 pmComment by Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 3:45 pm
My point?
Your comment:
The point is that the idea that flag buring is important to the voters is B.S. That is, until the politicians say it is and we are months away from an election. Most Americans who are now supporting a flag burning amendment couldn’t care less about it between Nov. 2004 and Nov. 2006.
Had my idiot Sen. Frist and other members of Congress not declared that it was one of the two most important issues facing this country and had not wasted the time debating it on the Senate floor in an attempt to amend the Constitution, I doubt very seriously that a majority of America would even give a thought to it. Flag burning is not on the mind of most people on a daily, or even monthly, basis.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:02 pmGrow some balls or you’ll contiue to lose
Good ole Republican speak, always there to unite us. If you had any BALLS,
you wouldn’t be a coward-ass Repub-nut.
Besides, I’d rather have brains, than balls.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:05 pmH. Barnette
You are arguing out of morality, and I respect that. You clearly believe in what you are saying.
The trouble here is that these embryos are going to die anyway. They are going to be thrown away, incinerated, whatever you want to call it.
Now, from the religious standpoint: No argument, the Bible doesn’t actually say anything about it. If you read it, there is a different sentence contained therein for punching a pregant woman in the stomach and causing her to miscarry, dependent on whether the stillborn baby was viable or not. It clearly does not view a fetus (up to a point) as being a fully formed human baby.
From a moral viewpoint: These embryos are not going to live anyway. These are the 90% that are not going to get adopted, and are going to just get flushed. It is sad but the truth of the matter is that the same argument around what is happening to these children surrounded the birth of surgery, when people went out and disected corpses to find out what made us tick, it is a question of “Is this wrong, if it harms no one, and it can help mankind as a whole?” I feel that it isn’t. The embryos are not yet human, they cannot think or feel, and they are going to be destroyed anyway.
If they are doomed anyway, we may as well use them to do some good, rather then having them go entirely to waste.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:05 pmAnd, Neil, I must say that the people in this country who respond to such rallying cries regarding flag burning and same-sex marriage are just plain ignorant. But you are correct in that the politicians feed off that. Anything to get elected. That’s what you support. Sad, really.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:05 pmWC,
You are exactly correct. It is a BS issue. It’s very useful though don’t you think?
Who cares what they think? All I care about is what they vote for and what it’ll take to get ‘em to vote that way.
Very cynical but very very effective.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:06 pmDieNowForPeace,
You gotta have brains AND balls.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:06 pm#23 YOU ARE RIGHT ON CUE–IT IS NOT FINANCIALLY SOUND TO HAVE A HEALTHY NATION–HOW THE HELL WILL BUSHCO MAKE MONEY WITH ALL YOU HEALTHY PEOPLE! NO DISEASES–NO PHARMAS–NO $$$$–NOW WE CAN’T HAVE THAT CAN WE?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:06 pm#147
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pmAre you hiding behind several screen names, or are you a two-headed beast?
DieNowForPeace,
Big talk little man, big talk.
You are a loser. You will always be a loser. You will die a loser.
I however am a winner any way you slice it.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pmW really need giant brains and huge nuts if we are going to beat these guys come November. I, for one, drag my balls behind me on a cart. My brain just hovers.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:09 pmBobs,
July 19th, 2006 at 4:09 pmI meant, after fathering two perfect children, I’d rather keep my brains than my balls, if ever the decision came up…
wow another bold move by the Queen opps King. He should have had Ann Coulter next to him and Cheney The Axis of Evil
July 19th, 2006 at 4:10 pmDieNowForPeace,
Not hiding punky, proving a point.
I told folks on another thread that I’d go to another thread – turns out to be this one – and drive the discussion to where I wanted it to go.
Mission Accomplished.
Twice.
You and the rest here are really sorta sad but it’s really fun messing with and really easy. I’m guessing the fun factor will last a few more days and then I’ll move on to taunt some other liberal whinefest board.
Enjoy it while it lasts folks.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:10 pmBar/Neil
You remind me of people who talk about how rich they are, funny thing is they are always broke. Your protests of strength, power, and victory are hollow.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:11 pmthank you, herman – a much needed belly laugh!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:11 pmNeil,
Words, from the sound of it, make you a man?
Electronic communication has given a voice the the little cowards in the world.
You’re pathetically cute.
Now, quite hijacking threads! What are you, 22 years old???
July 19th, 2006 at 4:12 pmNeil: the $30,000 dollar millionare!!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:12 pmKaty, you are ever so welcome
“Heel, testicles, heel!” “Good balls.”
July 19th, 2006 at 4:16 pmDieNowForPeace
There is absolutely nothing wrong with 22 year olds. I was one last year, it didn’t make me a bad person. (My taste in music is a bit retro, when the defining song of your generation’s music’s complete lyrics consists of “Man I’m horny, horny, horny, horny, God I’m horny, I’m horny, horny, horny, tonight” and nothing else, you start to see a lot of merit in Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen.)
July 19th, 2006 at 4:16 pmMy my my…
All this bitterness. And such sad examples of wit and jabs too!
Yet another example of why you aren’t fit to govern and must be crushed.
Keep it up. You will lose.
Losers lose, winners win.
We win. Lots.
Shouldn’t some be calling me fat and accuse me of living in my mother’s basement next?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:16 pm“I’m a winner! Wheeee!” “Loser”
Nice Homer Simpson argument Neil! You must be a child.
Nothing’s wrong with being 22, but man, your just a kid, and Neil whines like a baby…
July 19th, 2006 at 4:17 pmResponse to 145:
I understand your position perfectly and If I did not believe that human embryos were in fact human, I would agree with you. However, I do believe life begins at conception and therefore you and I do not see eye to eye on this topic.
The debate on embryonic stem cell research is only a derivative of another debate: When does human life begin? This is where the real debate lies.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:17 pmWe take that as a given.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:18 pm162: Well, if you insist.
Move out of your mother’s basement, fat-ass.
Happy now?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:18 pmNo Neil,
July 19th, 2006 at 4:21 pmWe won’t kowtow to your level of immature name calling, which is the ONLY thing you have to offer.
Now, go stick your pud into your H2’s tailpipe!
DieNowForPeace,
Say what you will my friend. I couldn’t have hijacked two threads here today all by myself if you and your ilk weren’t so easy.
How hard is it to ignore a troll?
It really works well. You should try it.
Then, during the next general election, force your party to come up with a clear concise agenda/platform that anyone can explain and that anyone can understand in 30 seconds.
Have all your wonky stuff in the background if you happen across that rare breed of voter that actually cares about that crap but you’ve got to be able to state your overacrhing message quickly and succinctly.
In the meantime, stay on topic and do not stray.
You all should be using these forums to fine-tune your thoughts and strategies so that when you really engage the public in 08 for the big prize, you can do it eloquently and easily.
Sure you may not want to win the way I do, but you do want to win don’t you? Stomping your feet, calling names, and throwing mud aren’t going to get you the WH. If your ideas are better you should win, right? You had better ideas the last two Presidintial elections and lost. What are you missing?
Think about it. Work on it. Stop whining and do the hard stuff it takes to win.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:26 pmNormally, I ignore trolls, but your just too damn funny, with all the “winning” and posturing silliness.
Me likey. Keep it coming! You sound like me dear old mother ranting about politics! That’s why I think it’s cute.
Besides, the GOP is paving the way to it’s own defeat. I think we can almost just sit back and watch the car crash…
July 19th, 2006 at 4:30 pmDieboy,
How long did it take you to come up with such a cool and hiply ironic moniker?
You are an embarassment. Please take a very public position this November and in 08. Please? You are what the GOP needs to guarantee victory.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:30 pmMy moniker is what YOU represent, oh shallow one.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:31 pmI don’t care about these issues. The sheeple do. So, I’ll advocate for these and push ‘em as part of my agenda. They’ll then vote the way the Conservatives want them to vote and then we can work the real agenda.
Come on folks, you know this is true. You may not like it but it works.
Comment by Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 3:20 pm
Ok, Neil. What is the real agenda?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:31 pmDieboy,
When was the last time anyone you voted for won anything?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:31 pmNeil
The Democrats lost in 2000 and 2004 because they ignored the trolls, because they didn’t dispute BS, because they didn’t fight back on every front. They lost because the trolls accused Gore of claiming he invented the internet, and nobody fought back, they lost because of groups like the Swiftboat Veterans For Truth telling lies, and nobody really fought back. They lost because of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Debbie Schlussel et al, and nobody really rising up to call them liars to their faces.
The Democrats lost because in the end, the Democrats didn’t stand up and yell back twice as loud and three times as passionately at what the Republicans were spewing. The Democrats lost, because they stayed on message, and didn’t take up the gloves they were being slapped silly with.
Now, the liberals are fighting back.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:35 pmNeil:
The moniker is meant for you, and your type. You want people to die in the name of peace, right? You’re the hipocrytic bafoon.
Hmm, let’s see, I voted for Classic Coke instead of New Coke. Oh boy, did I win???
Then there was that survey, what was it, oh yes, that more people are likely to vote Democratic in the fall elections… See you then, LOSER.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:38 pmnever posted here before , but after reading this thread i’m wondering ….what exactly has this cretin named bar / neil won?
IS it the destruction on my beloved country?
unless he’s a billionaire or a religious nutcase , what could he pssibly have WON?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:46 pmBig talk little man, big talk.
You are a loser. You will always be a loser. You will die a loser.
I however am a winner any way you slice it.
Comment by Bar/Neil — July 19, 2006 @ 4:07 pm
And you, sir, are an amoral sociopath and a traitor. People, this is the true face of the “Republican” party that’s currently in power in this country. They are the children of the Father of Lies. Though they wrap themselves in the flag, and hold up the cross, they are an enemy to what both symbolize.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:52 pmI think this line from PearlJams World Wide Suicide sums it up nicely
Tell you to pray, while the devil’s on their shoulder
July 19th, 2006 at 4:55 pmH. Barnett, sorry, I’ve lost track in the threads, but what are you proposing we do with the frozen embryos? I’m not aware that they are being trashed, burned, incinerated or destroyed. I had three frozen embryos remaining (out of 16 fertilized eggs I began with 18 years ago). I had one baby and 3 miscarriages (of multiples) from the fertilized eggs. My clinic contacted me about 5 years ago, and gave me the option of paying to store the remaining 3 frozen embryos indefinitely (by the way, because of the technology then, less than 1/2 of 1 percent chance of an implant “taking”), or donating to research or to another couple. As far as I know, the frozen embryos are not destroyed, unless you consider sitting in deep freeze indefinitely “destroyed.” What are you proposing to do with all these blastocysts? Who could possibly want to have 18 year old frozen blastocysts implanted?
July 19th, 2006 at 5:01 pmAlso, I believe in one of your comments, you observed something to the effect that if stem cell research proves effective, that there will be a rush to produce more, or something like that (I’ve forgotten now). But I can assure you that the in vitro process is so excrutiating that NO ONE would go through the process blithely and without a personal investment in the outcome.
177 Though they wrap themselves in the flag, and hold up the cross, they are an enemy to what both symbolize. Comment by impeachcheneythenbush
Amen and Remember the Revolution
July 19th, 2006 at 5:11 pmAs someone with a spinal cord injury, this is a MAJOR setback. Mr. Bush, your arrogant decision has probably cost me a chance for a cure in my lifetime. I cannot express in words how much this will affect the 10s of thousands of people – just with my specific disability. Just like Global Warming – your decision making is based on weak, outdated, and corrupt principles.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:14 pmTo them, the flag is a banner to wave in war, is symbolises conquest and the national will to beat up other flags. The cross symbolises the single most painful point in Jesus’ career, when he was torturered, shamed, denied and ultimately executed.
I’d say they represent those symbols fairly well.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:19 pmGoodness, step out to close a deal and you all finally grow a pair.
Congratulations.
Now that you’re all riled up, aside from the stem cell issue which is a loser for the GOP, how do plan to combat the GOP/Conservative Christian alliance?
How are you going to refute the coming spin?
Do you have a plan to work to convince anyone other than the amorphous “middle/independant” electorate that the Dems deserve another chance?
Or will you as I suspect, expect the media to carry your water for you and then cry on the internet about how unfair it all is when they roll over for us?
And before you start screaming about the Liberal Media, every thoughtful Conservative see through that canard. We know the Media has been cowed by us into effectively being our bitch. We call ‘em liberal but they really do the hard work for us.
All we have to do is wave the flag and scream “gays want to abort your babies” and “the WoT demands that we cut taxes” or some such nonsense and we’re guaranteed 45% of the vote. That’s before we start the spin and vitriol.
It works. We’ll keep doing it.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:46 pmRead it and weep or vote them out:
http://www.comicssherpa.com/site/feature?uc_comic=csqjy
July 19th, 2006 at 5:50 pmThis is kinda reminiscent of Specter and his closed-door, no media meeting concerning making English the official language (the one in which Feingold stormed out), isn’t it?
July 19th, 2006 at 5:59 pmSorry, that was about same sex marriage. My bad.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:03 pm……….who will convey it to a clerk of the House, and then you go through the formalities of announcing a message from the president, …….
July 19th, 2006 at 6:03 pm[...] And he veteod the bill in secrecy. From Tony Snow’s press conference this morning: SNOW: The president will, however, before he delivers remarks this afternoon, veto the Castle bill. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 6:27 pm[...] The transcript from the Tony Snow’s press conference announcing that no press will be present from Think Progress . SNOW: The president will, however, before he delivers remarks this afternoon, veto the Castle bill. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 6:32 pm#30; f*cking A straight man.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:50 pmYou guys are idiots. Have you even read the bill??? It was a horrible and broad bill. Why kill baby’s when you can take adult and embilical cord stem cells? And there is private funding for stem cells, so if you want them to continue, then donate your F*cking money. I don’t want my tax money being wasted on stem cell research. So get your heads out of ur A$$es and wisen up.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:10 pmThe reason why George Jr. handlers didn’t allow the media is that he doesn’t know what the hell he is doing.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:17 pmmy EPIPHANY:
go back to #129, read it – i know it’s lengthy, but ya gotta…
ok?
it’s all about PRIVITIZATION… PRIVATE INVESTMENTS
WILL YEILD PRIVATE RETURNS AND PROFITS.
The WEALTHY will be HEALTHY.
it’s not about “lifeâ€â€¦ it’s about profits…
July 19th, 2006 at 7:19 pmA couple of points. If you are rich you can always fly to a country that does have science and good stem cell research going on.
Burning the flag is currently the appoved way of destroying a flag at the end of it’s useful life, instead of throwing it in a landfill for example.
Thousands of blastocysts are created and destroyed every year. If people were truly concerned about blastocysts they would work to ban money for fertility science.
Someone made a great point, let’s stop worrying about children that have yet to be born and worry more about the children that are alive and suffering today.
How far does this right to life go? They sound like Monty Python, Every Sperm is Sacred. Do they burie their menstruation and name it? Do they cremate the used condom with 50 million little Jimmys and Suzies in it?
Get a grip people life is now don’t waste it waiting for the afterlife. Stem cells could be the single biggest advancement in medicin and biology ever, and this President and his religious wacko followers would thwart it at every turn. He will go down in the annuals of history footnoted next to Pol Pot, Stalin and assorted other mass murderers, imagin in 60 years if they do finally perfect stem cell therapy and it does save lives, enable the blind to see, enable the paralized to walk, enable the brain injured to recover, spare the suffering of millions and millions of people, will history hold GWB to blame for 30 years of the dark ages before the miracle of stem cell medicine?
July 19th, 2006 at 7:33 pmRub the GOP’s nose in it til November…Kick BUTT in November!
July 19th, 2006 at 7:40 pmThe U.S. Flag Code states, “The flag, when it is in such a condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferable by burning.”
July 19th, 2006 at 7:44 pmOMG! There was the ONLY chance to con some poor stem cells to grow Our Great Leader brains, and he VETOED IT!!!
Now he will live dumb and die dumb and never realize what he missed. How sad.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:46 pmI find it curious how the Decider professes to defend innocent embryonic lives, but is willing to let them grow up to become casualties of war. Then he professes to “understand” the pain of the losses. HYPOCRITE???
July 19th, 2006 at 7:52 pmBar/Neil is obviously not serious. It is either a parody troll or a middle schooler that likes getting attention for saying outrageous, stupid stuff…or it is Ann Coulter. Ignore it.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:09 pmIgnore it.
Comment by JPark
I agree, JPark, we should ignore it. I thought it was a parody this morning, but now I’m not so sure. Best to ignore it anyway.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:39 pmStem stupidity; abort Bush!
July 19th, 2006 at 8:54 pmWell here it is. GWB vetoed stem cell research and china is making it there top priority
July 19th, 2006 at 9:27 pmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/5194192.stm
Looks like America will soon be owned by the Chinese. Bettter go go stock up on chinese flags boys because we as a nation just bit the dust.
any signing statements to report yet?????
July 19th, 2006 at 10:03 pmGrow some balls or you’ll contiue to lose
Good ole Republican speak, always there to unite us. If you had any BALLS,
you wouldn’t be a coward-ass Repub-nut.
Besides, I’d rather have brains, than balls.
Comment by DieNowForPeace
July 19th, 2006 at 10:06 pm————–
..and a heart.
Use the stem cells for research to potentially save lives, or destroy them? If I were a right-wingnut prolifer, it would seem like a no brainer. Too bad there’s no room for rational thought on their part; just follow the leader.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:39 pmCheck out this great song about bush’a america
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazWM
July 20th, 2006 at 12:19 amWhat the hell was that comment about “no ceremony?” Wasn’t there a group of hand picked children with their parents after this veto. I would call that a ceremony!!! Too bad Bush cares so much about these people and could give a shit less about those babies in Iraq who he has murdered with this criminal war that he started!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 20th, 2006 at 8:39 amAll great super powers come to an end.. Bush has just accelarated it for the US. China or India is surely next.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:26 amI’ve been reading this string carefully. Posters are not staying on topic, which has been pointed out by someone who calls him/herself “Bar/Neil.” I don’t know who this person is, but s/he is giving you good advice and an inside view of Republican trickery. For this reason, I suspect it may be a Democratic strategist, taunting you with juvenile name-calling at the same time s/he is revealing tricks you should take very seriously.
Point: Republicans change the subject to hot-button issues that play on voter fear of the unknown. They understand basic psychology.
Point: Republicans don’t actually care about those issues. They are simply tools of the game to win.
Point: Republicans word their messages in a way to change the subject and get the Democrats off subject.
Bar/Neil has accomplished this trick several times in this string. And pointed it out. And told you to stay on message or you’ll lose. This is the truth.
In another trick, elsewhere I noticed a political cartoon inked by a Republican that listed a bunch of so-called Democratic issues, and they really weren’t. Republicans keep pulling us off topic by defining OUR agenda.
We must respond to people who pull us off topic by understanding how they do this. We have our antennae up because we don’t want to be Swift-boated again, but there is a difference between responding ferociously to nasty charges from a well-funded organization and responding with name-calling to a possible troll.
The National Democratic Party and many, many good organizations are supplying talking points for dealing with Republican lies. The more we understand their language and tactics, the better we will be at turning and deflecting their garbage back onto them. And it can start by having the public on our side in something like stem cell research.
Make sure you don’t use their language–always examine it carefully for how it affects you and the average voter.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:48 pmOk everyone open your eyes to what the Bush veto isall about, its election year…doesn’t anyone actually watch the news and actually put it all together? Let’s galvanize the the Wingnut legions. They are worried, so its time to trot out all the Wingnut non-issue issues’. What’s been on the agenda just this month? Let’s see…The flag burning amendment, The “under God” approval in “The Pledge”, The no “same sex marriage’ thing, and now against all common sense the “stealth veto”, pandering to the most far right “Wingnuts”.
Don’t politians have real issues to be working on other than re-elections faux issues like Middle East wars, real jobs for Americans, affordable education (no I mean really affordable), corporate greed, out of control politians for sale, you know REAL issues.
As far as all this about stem cell research, I wonder, will we soon require “menstral interventions” to save every womans egg that doesn’t get fertalized each month? I mean that is the same as letting a child die every time us guys don’t step up and get the job done. Isn’t it?
Or worse yet will there be a constitutional amendment banning masterbation? Aren’t us guys guilty of murdering millions of potential children everytime we ring the joy bell. Or maybe we should just hold responsible the sperm that don’t get the job done. Well anyway, Science be damned, emotional response has always been the best way to get the job done hasn’t it? I mean it got our “Mission Accomplished” in Iraq, didn’t it???????
Later
July 20th, 2006 at 12:53 pmJesus Christ was not a fundamentalist, but fundamentalists are not really Christians.
They are troglodytes with Old Testaments.
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/index.htm
Vote the illiterate bastards out of office in November…Vote Democrat.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:30 pmObviously a reasonable, scientifically-minded person.
Marc, how about we use the same approach with the war in Iraq? You want it to continue, so you donate private funds. Then the rest of us won’t be forced to fund something that we find morally reprehensible. Does that work for you?
And by the way, this bill doesn’t prevent any kind of killing. The cells will now be discarded rather than used for life-saving research. That’s something most anti-research conservatives don’t seem to understand. But I can’t really blame them; they don’t know they’ve been lied to.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:47 pmBush’s motivation for his veto of stem cell research: He is against murder.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:54 pmAt the same time thousands die in Iraq because of his dirty lies.
What a hypocritical BASTARD!!!
Did anyone notice the applause at the veto ceremony. It was the usual group of chosen supporters who normally populate his pep rallies, led my chosen cheer leaders in applause and shouts of approval. Was it really necessary to show the 75% or more of American citizens who do not support the veto that he still commands his core.?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:59 pmIf you feel strongly enough about something to veto it, you should not “cut and run” and not tell the American people what you’re thinking.
We hear all this BS about how Bush is butch and doesn’t cut and run and then he doesn’t have the guts to let people see him veto a bill. All hat and no cattle.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:52 pmI hate to get all “biblical” but in Leviticus 17:11 doesn’t the it say that “life is in the blood?”
I’m no OB/GYN, but I thought that embryos didn’t develope their own blood, and their own circulatory system until week 6-7.
Doesn’t that mean that “biblically speaking” – even GOD recognizes that these clumps of cells are “just” clumps of cells?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:24 pmBar/Neil’s party has a platform, and his party sticks to the talking points. “There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.” (untrue) “Saddam is training Al Queda operatives. (Untrue) “The Iraquis wish to discard all their 4,000+-year-old, customs, culture, tribes, beliefs, and behaviors and adopt our form of democracy.” (untrue) “The Coalition Forces will be welcomed as liberators.” (untrue) “The Mission is Accomplished!” (untrue) “We’re making progress in Iraq.” (untrue) “We have a plan.” (untrue) “Armageddon is just around the corner, so what the hell?” (untrue)
Other planks in the Grand Old Party’s platform are: we will lie to the American public (fundamental of Bar/Neil’s party’s platform). (true) We will deceive the American public. (true) We will pander to the religious fundamentalists, the Taliban excepted. (true) We will discard solid science and accept superstitions and myths. (true) Our Grand Old Party will damn the masses and favor the economically elite. (true) We will rape the environment. (true) We will pollute our earth’s thin atmosphere and exploit what natural resources remain. (true) We will assume an anti-intellectual posture and kick thinkers out of responsible governmental positions. (true) Our Grand Old Party will use any nefarious tactic, legal or illegal, to achieve one of our ends. (true) We will not be future-oriented or think causally. (true, as Katrina proved) We will nominate incompetent party loyalists or inept personal favorites to positions of considerable responsibility. (true) Our leader will not know grammar, geology, geography, international law, Constitutional law, or what constitutes appropriate behavior in another culture. (true) We will continuously damn judges and congressmen and congresswomen who do not support an unfettered, free-ranging Imperial Presidency. (true) And, our Grand Old Party will ignore the civil rights of people with phones, computers, medical records, bank accounts, library cards, or any other sources of information we may “mine” and exploit (in the name of national security). (true)
How can anyone with two thoughts above a ‘possum support such a gang?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:10 pmWould someone in the MSM PLEEEAAAASE ask this question?
Dear Mr. Snow,
July 21st, 2006 at 8:41 amSince the President believes using new lines of embryonic stem cells is, as you have said, tantamount to “murder”, will you be submitting legislation preventing any cures for Parkinson’s, paralysis, diabetes etc. that may be developed in morally corrupt foreign countries to be used in the United States ?
WOW!!! That’s pretty much my knee-jerk reaction when reading these comments–and then it goes like this: You’ve got to be kidding me. Here’s a piece of advice, back-away and re-read these posts through the eyes of a Republican. You’re the ones who sound like $hit-nuts-crazy loons. I swear 99% of you still think you’re running against Bush in the next election. I mean there is real heart- racing anger in your writing–its palpable. Just keep typing, keep writing, keep seething–don’t worry about the next election, just keep your focus here, right here (hating Bush). By the way, Is there a “I hate Bush†competition among contributors? I can’t wait to see what you come up with next–how about “Bush went after Sadam because he looks like Karl Marxâ€? That ought to do it…that’s right, just keep your focus constant and steady on hating Bush…don’t worry about how you’re going to get done the things that YOU need to get done. You’ll beat Bush next election!
July 21st, 2006 at 2:29 pmPost #32 illustrates how incredibly stupid and brainwashed the bu$h goons are. They buy the BS like Sen. Brownback (Brownshirt) showed on the Senate floor yesterday…. that someone is killing a child to get these few cells. That fool actually stood on the floor of Congress with his little sketches of little boys and girls.
It seems obvious to me that neither ‘Brownshirt’, Bush or the poster (#32) has a a clue what a stem cell is. They should be forced to sit through a simple Biology class that would explain to them that this is nothing more than a cluster of cells that would fit on the head of a pin then ask them to point to anything that looks like a little girl or little boy. With that said ……………
I can think of one person in the White House who would benefit tremendously from a “stem cell transplant”…… one that would grow a brain!
July 21st, 2006 at 6:22 pmGeorge Bush…. shame on you. I love America, but you give Americans a bad name. Shame on you and the numbskulls that voted for you. Its disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. People are suffering and you are prolonging it. Embryonic Stem Cells are here to stay no matter what you veto. :)
August 16th, 2006 at 4:26 pmBush has some serious issues and should get psyciatric help asap!
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December 8th, 2006 at 3:50 am