Kristol Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change
Kristol Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change
This morning on Fox, Bill Kristol continued to escalate his calls for war against Iran, stating, “We can try diplomacy. I’m not very hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.†Kristol claimed the people of Iran would embrace “the right use of targeted military force.†He added that military force could “trigger changes in Iran,” causing them to embrace regime change. Watch it.
Kristol’s argument is a regurgitation of what he argued would result from the Iraq war. This is what wrote on the pages of the Weekly Standard in the days leading up to the Iraq war:
We are tempted to comment, in these last days before the war, on the U.N., and the French, and the Democrats. But the war itself will clarify who was right and who was wrong about weapons of mass destruction. It will reveal the aspirations of the people of Iraq, and expose the truth about Saddam’s regime. … History and reality are about to weigh in, and we are inclined simply to let them render their verdicts.
If at first you don’t succeed, try and try again.
Transcript:
KRISTOL: We have to be ready to use military force against Iran, if it comes to that. Think what this crisis would be like given what we now know about the Islamic Republic of Iran, its regime, its recklessness, its close, close ties to terrorist groups. Think what the world wore would be like with an Iran with nuclear weapons. This is a very interesting moment in that respect. You know? We are in a way lucky that Iran has revealed its aggression, its recklessness, its terror ties before they succeeded in becoming a nuclear power. We have to stop them from getting nuclear weapons. We can try diplomacy. I am not hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.
QUESTION: You know, the down side, though, you know very well, to all of that being that we’re involved in Iraq and Afganistan. Also that Iran is much different than Iraq. It’s huge and more formidable.
KRISTOL: It is, but also the Iranian people dislike their regime. I think they would be – the right use of targeted military force — but especially if political pressure before we use military force – could cause them to reconsider whether they really want to have this regime in power. There are even moderates – they are not wonderful people — but people in the government itself who are probably nervous about Ahmadinejad’s recklessness.
This is why standing up to Iran right now is so important. They’re overreached. They and Hezbollah have recklessly overreached. They got cocky. This is the moment to set them back. I think a setback to Hezbollah could trigger changes in Iran. People can say, wait a second, what is Ahmadinejad doing to us. We’re alone. The Arab world is even against us. The Muslim world is against us. Let’s reconsider this reckless path that we’re on.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
We dislike our regime too. It doesn’t mean that we’re hoping that China invades us to give us a new one.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:18 pmDoesn’t his perfect record of being perfectly wrong eliminate the need for anyone to listen to him anymore, let alone comment on his rantings?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:18 pmOh goody. More roses thrown at the feet of our liberators.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:19 pmAnd will they treat us as liberators?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:19 pmLets see we haven’t completed the mission in Afghanistan, Iraq is a turning into a bloody mess. What are we to do? I know lets attack Iran.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:21 pmAre neo-cons gearing up for another “cake walk” in the Middle East, one where people are going to welcome the troops with open arms, throw sweets and flowers as they walk by?
I seem to remember that was the story line during the run up to the invasion of Iraq.
We all know how that one turned out.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:21 pmI LOVE WAR!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111
July 19th, 2006 at 12:21 pmHe gets away with spewing this garbage because the Democratic party has failed at informing Americans about PNAC.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:21 pmDoes anyone other than Fox News Agency Tass give air time to this blathering idiot?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:21 pmalright you bastard, you start. we’ll parachute you into tehran – let us know how it goes and if the girls kiss you and the people throw flowers.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:22 pmyou were much funnier when you did the oscars…
Fox News has done it! They’ve created a time machine, I feel like it’s late 2002, early 2003 all again. Someone call Doc Brown!
July 19th, 2006 at 12:24 pm#9 – No, he’s a paid Fox commentator.
et al – There is a Iranian reform movement with a strong influence internally.
Kristol is wrong. An overt military strike would likely bring out the nationalistic side of Iranians.
On the otherhand, we should be supporting, covertly, an internal revolution. When they have built the critial mass of support and go military themselves, we can be there to support them. We cannot lead the way.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:26 pmWe need regime change in our news media starting at Fox.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:26 pm#12: It’s interesting that Bill Kristol is still treated by the mainstream media as someone with credibility, while the people who warned us that the Iraq adventure was a bad idea are still marginalized.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:27 pmI agree with Chase on this issue. Help support the internal movement, that wants to see reform. I remember not to long ago, the was thaw in US-Iran relations. I don’t think on average that your Iranian on the street likes the regime in charge. However with an outside threat, the US and Isreal, and a strong nationalistic president; the people will line up behind their leader case of attack.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:29 pm#1 right on – you’d think this would make sense to normal people and then you’d think that the iraq experience would convince normal people that it’s for real. this fascist thinks he hasn’t found the right country and wants to keep going until he does. israel thinks enough bombs will bring out the flowers. jesus h christ – these people are insane!
July 19th, 2006 at 12:29 pmWhoops. I didn’t mean for my last comment to be directed to #12.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:30 pmOn the otherhand, we should be supporting, covertly, an internal revolution. When they have built the critial mass of support and go military themselves, we can be there to support them. We cannot lead the way.
This is exactly the kind of wolly thinking that has resulted in millions of deaths in the past. The US and the EU should be openly leading by example. No covert operations, that simply exposes those who champion democracy as the cynical scum they currently are. Or at least are currently led by.
The EU has resulted in Spain, Portugal, Greece and recently Turkey embracing democracy. Plus the succesful integration of most of the former Warsaw Pact. Dialouge and negotiation WORKS. If that idiot of yours would only give it a try.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:32 pmThe people of Ira_ will welcome us with flowers and candy.
Can’t we just bomb the Weekly Standard instead? Maybe they have some flowers and candy lying around …
July 19th, 2006 at 12:32 pm.
I swear to god….neo-cons foaming at the mouth before our eyes.
Why is it that all these warmongers “had other priorities” when they were young enough to serve in the military? Bastards. Each and every one of ‘em.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:35 pm#18 – Ok, instead of “covert” operations, how about an open support of the Iranian resistance.
Start pumping in Air Iran 24 hours a day. How about supporting the student movement that has been recently brutally crushed?
I’m all in favor of doing this above the table, because I firmly believe democracy is ‘right’.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:35 pmKrazny – this is the whole problem. Why did the current “nutball” get elected as President of Iran? They had a moderate leader who was warming up to better US-Iran relations, but he was replaced by this hard-liner, so while there may be a large number of Iranian citizens who’d like to remove the current administration, it’s clearly not enough – and this is probably do to our actions in Iraq.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:36 pmMr. Kristol: Please spend a few days in Iraq talking to the citizens about how much they are enjoying the outcome of our efforts to save them. Then come back and shoot off your mouth.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:37 pmAre all these bastards crazy? What the hell does he think war is? HINT: War is not supposed to be for the profiteering of the military industrial complex and oil companies. Get it?
Take back the congress, impeach the Chimp and Shooter Cheney, and then we round up all these stupid chickenhawk warmongers and put them away, in Gitmo.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:38 pmI think it’s a great idea…it will take our minds off those other pesky little wars that are going on in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon….am I missing any other ones? You can never have to many wars going on. When are they going to stop giving these imbeciles air time? To many people still listening and agreeing with these idiots.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:38 pmWhy did the current “nutball†get elected as President of Iran
Yeah, it was a wonderfully free and fair election.
The council of clerics, who run the show in Iran, disqualified most of the pro-reform candidiates just prior to the election.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:40 pmLOL. Yeah, cause it worked so well in Iraq. Kristol is a total nutjob.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:40 pmBush doesn’t have the luxury of listening to neocon nut jobs like Kristol any more. The generals won’t put up with it. To even begin indulging Kristol’s crackpot fantasies would require reinstatement of the draft, and that isn’t going to happen.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:43 pmDon’t they think the Iranians keep close tabs on Iraq’s vibrant democracy ? All chances of the Iranians siding with Amerika are long gone.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:44 pmStart pumping in Air Iran 24 hours a day. How about supporting the student movement that has been recently brutally crushed?
I’m all in favor of doing this above the table, because I firmly believe democracy is ‘right’.
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 12:35 pm
Well I’m in favour of democracy too, I’m just not certain any overt western interference would help. The problem Chase is that the formerly powerful voice of western democracy has become a wheedling, hypocritical whine. The very people we are trying to reach, are the ones that can best see the glaring hypocrisy of our position.
It is impossible to underestimate the damage that Bush has done.
We (by we I mean the west) need to get back the high ground before we start lecturing others. Plus, the Iranian system is so nearly a democracy (it is very similar to parliamentary monarchies, or South Africa under apartheid) that if left their own devices, they will likely morph into a full blown democracy in time.
Dropping bombs on their heads will set that back decades.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:44 pmWhat you are seeing from Kristol is an effete fool who’s theories have been proven false in Iraq, and unable to accept the fact that he and other NeoCons were WRONG. He would love to see us try this again in another country because to Bill, he couldn’t possibly be wrong now could he? He’s advocating this action because his ego won’ t allow him to admit that he and his nutbag friends are completely and utterly wrong. Sad and childish to say the least.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:45 pmI agree w/Solitaire.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:45 pmI think people likie Kristol and Coulter etc win when you put them up on your site.
Let them rant to the converted,but don’t give them a forum here.
They thrive n being confronted.Let them wither……
My version: We are tempted to comment, in these last days before all hell breaks loose, on Kristol, and Rove, and the rest of the fear mongering neocons. But the war in Iraq itself has already clarifified who was right and who was wrong about weapons of mass destruction. It has revealed the aspirations of the people who started the war in Iraq, and exposed the truth about the PNAC regime. … History and reality have weighed in, and we are inclined to listen their verdicts and avoid repeating past mistakes.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:45 pm#26 – what’s the difference? in the United Statess the corporate/christian coalition/lawyer mullahs decide who gets the $millions to be on the slate here. I see no difference in practice.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:46 pm26 – Chase – well, somehow the previous “moderate” President managed to get “elected” – why the change in attitude suddenly? Perhaps because the current “nutball” candidate ran on an anti-USA policy? I don’t know – I’m hardly a mid-east expert, but there was a decided change in attitude in the country.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:47 pmAsk anyone in the world where they would rather live, Iran or Iraq? Chase likes Iraq and I say go, and walk through the streets with your American flag.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:47 pm#26-Chase,
There is an old saying that one should tend to their own yard before commenting to their neighbor as to what they need to do with theirs. You should look to that wisdom before you continue to display your lack of such.
Iran is not perfect, but most certainly neither is the US. Who kills more of their citizens? That’s probably a toss up. Who is more of a danger to and wreaking more havoc on humanity? The answer to that is simple and undisputed, the United States of America.
Physician, heal thy self.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:48 pmYes, but will they bring us “flowers and sweet cakes,” Billy Boy?
“You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”
-George W. Bush, March 2001
July 19th, 2006 at 12:48 pmThere is a Iranian reform movement with a strong influence internally.
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 12:26 pm
at least there WAS one, until dubya threatened the country as part of the “axis of evil”, and so the people elected this “a-mad-in-the-head” guy (thank you randi rhodes) to protect them from the advances of the americans on their border…
what the hell would you do if threatened?
bush blew it.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:53 pm#30: This is a thoughtful post. I agree that the moral authority of the United States has been severely undermined by the war in Iraq, and we should be extremely careful about how we proceed.
A first logical step would be to reinstate democracy here at home. Ensure that there’s a paper trail for every vote, and a coherent process for recounts. Get rid of the voting machines, or make them tamper-proof. Aggressively prosecute and punish anyone caught trying to suppress voting. Severely limit the influence of lobbyists and large corporate donors.
I have to say that I’m skeptical that Iran is as close to democracy as you suggest. The current regime has a strangehold over the political and military infrastructures. But I agree with the others on this board–open military intervention on the part of the United States would be extremely unwise at this point.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:56 pm#21
Isn’t our pumping money into elections the reason Ahmadinejad is in Iran (2 million US dollars) in the first place, and Hamas in in Palestine (another 2 million to support Fatah, home of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) ? Now we are putting 75 million into a campaign to affect regime change in Iran.
It goes to prove that insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. AKA current American foreign policy.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:57 pmChase,
If you believe in Democracy, then why are you supporting regime change of a Democratically elected leader in Iran?
You seem to be supporting a rehash of exactly what the US did in Guatemala, Chile, Zaire, and others: using covert operations to overthrow a democratically elected leader and install a puppet dictatorship, which oppresses the people and eventually leads to either decades of civil war or a socialist revolution. And, oh, yeah – didn’t we do this in Iran once before too??
Answer this, if you think regime change of democratically elected leaders is good: name one time that the US has done one of these covert regime changes, and it has resulted in a democratic government with respect for the human rights of its people. Just one. We’ve done plenty of covert regime changes, so you must have ONE example of a success.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:57 pm#37
Who kills more of their citizens? That’s probably a toss up.
Actually it’s not. According to Amnesty International – 2005:
Oh this includes a few who were executed by the state for being homosexuals.
Who is more of a danger to and wreaking more havoc on humanity? The answer to that is simple and undisputed, the United States of America.
Not accroding to the opinion of the world. From “World Public Opinion” –
July 19th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
This is the exact same rationale for violence that terrorists use.
The idea that you can attack an institution, expose “weakness”, and then “trigger change” is exactly what terrorists try to do when they blow themselves up in the town marketplace. They believe that the population has been infected with immorality that goes against the Koran, and if they blow themselves up in public, this will somehow “wake up” the population; they’ll be shocked and awed into seeing what has become of them, and demand a reversal in government policy.
So here we have Kristol claiming the exact same thing— use violence and military force in hopes that it will expose bad government and the people will have no choice but to demand regime change. You tell me the difference.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:58 pmOf Course he repeats the same deluded things.
Kristol does not have knoweldege of the equilibrium, though perhaps some may think he does.
I find him to be repulsive not because of his religion but his supremacist viewpoints. Kristol is a large part of this neo-con cabal of organized hypocrisy.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pmTo even begin indulging Kristol’s crackpot fantasies would require reinstatement of the draft, and that isn’t going to happen.
I’m not so sure anymore…but I am sure that it would be the single most issue that would IGNITE the apathetic.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pmBush Cabal:
This time we swear to God
War with Iran will pay for itself in oil profits,
We will be greeted as liberators,
It will take no more than 6 months,
We know exactly where their WMDs are located
An Iranian democracy will spread democracy in the Middle East
Democracies never fight each other
That’s the same guy, stealing the same vase, the media just shows it over and over. There’s no insurgency
The insurgency is in their last throes
We’re spreading freedom
Isn’t insanity defined as doing the same thing, but expecting a different outcome each time?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:01 pm#45 – Quick test – what’s his religion?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:03 pm#43 – thank god for Iran knocking Uncle Sam off that coveted #1 spot. Come on kim jong-il, get off your duff and blow something up!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:04 pm“U-S-A, U-S-A - we’re number 2!” – sorry that was my I-R-I impression.
So here we have Kristol claiming the exact same thing— use violence and military force in hopes that it will expose bad government and the people will have no choice but to demand regime change. You tell me the difference
Spot on. The neocon’s refuse to engage in any debate about terrorist “motives”, yet they get all soppy and touchy feely about “understanding” for Israel.
Lets get this context, Israeli actions have killed nearly 300 civilians. If we rightly dismiss motive, and examine outcomes, what is the difference between this and a terrorist that blows up a bus? Other than the obvious, that the Isreali pilot is in no appreciable danger while murdering the civilians.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:04 pmRemember,
Fox and Kristol are all the more popular because
elected Democrats support Fox.
Kristol ain’t shit without Fox.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:05 pm#43-Chase,
You may be able to fool yourself with false statistics and information from a conservative think-tank, but the world is not so idiotic.
You are certainly not a champion of peace when all that you seek is what to destroy and who to kill next. Examine your own dark conscience and you will find the evil that you need to conquer.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:06 pm#43: I basically agree with the spirit of this post. I think it’s ludicrous to suggest that the United States is a more oppressive regime than Iran.
In fairness to the previous poster (#37), however, I have to say that the United States is indeed “more of a danger” than Iran, simply because of our enormous power and influence (military, economic, and otherwise). It’s very important that we use that power wisely. The consequences for acting unwisely are extremely serious, both for us and for the rest of the world. Opinion polls notwithstanding, the U.S. is a much bigger player on the world stage.
And actually, I knew that the U.S. was unpopular, but I didn’t know it was only last year that Iran displaced us as the most unpopular nation in the world. Things are worse than I thought.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:07 pm#49 – My point was
a. Iran kills more of her own people than we do.
b. Iran is viewed more negatively than the US by the world.
That was the claim above. I refuted it.
Of course we aren’t very popular. Success breeds jealousy. ;-)
July 19th, 2006 at 1:08 pmi was at my bank this morning, putting some money in a 6mo. CD…
in the guy’s office, i look up through the glass partition and see FOX news of the screen… i couldn’t help it – i told him that i thought it was a bad move, a bad message that his bank was tuned in to faux, even if the sound was turned off, thankfully… he saidhe had no control over that, fine… then we actually got into a conversation about the wars and politics… he agreed with everything i said – and i did reign in the rhetoric, considering the lacale – and even suggested that it wouldn’t matter who the democrats ran in ‘08, most everybody will NOT vote for these guys… just one of the comments he made that lifted my spirits…
i also gave him a very short discription of PNAC – he had never heard of it [as stated by Dwindling Neocon Army — July 19, 2006 @ 12:21 pm] and i suggested he do some homework on the internet… he wrote it down on a post-it and stuck it on his monitor… i mentioned the “need a new Pearl Harbor” and he connected the Twin Towers immediately…
gawd, we’ve got a lot of work to do…
July 19th, 2006 at 1:08 pmhttp://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/19/kristol-iran/#comment-679302
I refuse businesses that have Fox on their TVs and I tell them.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:10 pmComment by katy — July 19, 2006 @ 1:08 pm
I refuse businesses that have Fox on their TVs and I tell them.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:11 pm#40 : I have to say that I’m skeptical that Iran is as close to democracy as you suggest.
Well Jim, I don’t think they are THAT close, and they have backslide a little since Bush hove into view. Nonetheless, there is play in the system, much as there was in South Africa during apartheid.
Indeed as one poster argued, there isn’t a great deal more play in the US marsipan or breadsticks electoral process.
Once people get a taste of self determination, they push and push for more. Well generally it’s liberals doing the pushing of course. Ironic to think that the people that will probably widen the remit of Iranian democracy, are the kind of people whoBush and Co. would demonise at home:-) That is kind of funny.
The point is blowing them up will harden attitudes and allow the nationalists to get control, and rabid nationalists (proto fascists like the GOP) are always bad.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:12 pmChase the mental case, blahblahblaa, where do you start?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#56: Thanks for your good work. What you did is far more effective than what we’re doing here on this comment board. Here we just try to out-clever one another, while one-to-one communication, done tactfully, can educate people and change minds.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#52 – Ahahaha ahhahaha. Those were BBC studies. And the World Public Opinion project is an effort by by a non-partisan group.
No conservative think-tanks here buddy.
If you dont like the statistics, that’s one thing. But you can’t deny them by calling them cooked. Sorry, that doesn’t work here.
#54 – I’m not so sure the world considers the US more of a danger than Iran. I think that definately went into their “negative/positive” determination. You might consider it more dangerous, but evidently the world doesn’t.
#53 – Dr. Neat – Iran’s president was elected by popular vote, Bush wasn’t.
For a guy who lost the popular vote in 2000, he sure turned it around in 2004, after the Iraq invasion and won it by over 3 million. That’s impressive no?
And you’re proud that the US is only the SECOND most negatively perceived country in the world?
It really doesnt bother me. At least we have a thriving economy, unlike popular Europe. And we don’t have anything in the order of human rights violations that China has. All in all, we are ok. (PS – Let’s not get off an an economy tangent, at least on this thread).
July 19th, 2006 at 1:14 pmHere we go again dept……..they’ll greet us as liberators with candy and flowers and their oil will pay for it……..
uh, huh, uh, huh
just be sure to send the twins in the first wave in…eh?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:14 pmBill! Shut the hell up! You are an absolute idiot. We’d be welcomed just like we’ve been welcomed in Iraq? Please just shut the hell up!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:14 pmkaty – you’re an asshole. I will watch whatever I want whenever I want. But, thank you for exposing the left as the libro-fascist thought police that they are. If you weren’t such cowards, I would be worried that you would start ethnically cleansing the conservative movement. You PIG.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:15 pm#59: It sounds like we’re on the same page. The goal is not to fuel those nationalistic fires. A good strategy here at home, too, now that I think of it. Patriotism good; nationalism not so much.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:16 pma. Iran kills more of her own people than we do.
b. Iran is viewed more negatively than the US by the world.
i’m not certain that either of these comments are correct. For one, the US has sent nearly 3000 Americans to their deaths in Iraq. Surely that should also be counted?
The other I’ll have a squirrel and see what I can come up with.
Of course we aren’t very popular. Success breeds jealousy. ;-)
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 1:08 pm
Really? What “success” would that be exactly, Iraq, North Korea …. ? People are not jealous of Americans, they HATE them because their government facilitates murder and mayhem around the world. It really isn’t that hard to grasp, and it’s completely logical.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:20 pm#62: I think that definately went into their “negative/positive†determination.
Evidence for this claim? It was a simple positive/negative poll on a country’s “influence.” I don’t think we can assume what basis people used to make this determination. Sure, some people might apply the “dangerousness” criterion. Others might have evaluated our economic influence, our cultural influence, and/or a whole host of other things. In my own travels my general sense is that people in many countries generally like Americans and our influence on the world, even if they don’t like our current administration. I’m not sure on what basis people evaluate Iranians, but I suspect it has a lot to do with how Iranians are represented in the media and through popular culture (i.e. pretty negatively).
July 19th, 2006 at 1:22 pm#62-Chase,
That’s a blatant lie, just a few clicks on the internet will expose your deception regarding the “World Public Opinion†organization. What a tangled web you weave.
As far as your statistics, you cite only “executionsâ€. You do not reference murders, or deaths due to neglect (Katrina), or indifference (poverty), or malice (healthcare), or law enforcement action. So my ignorant friend, quit staring at the tree and observe the forest before you. Iran is an amateur compared to the expertise of the USA. A dubious distinction indeed.
Now, if you want to review opinion polls, try the Pew Research site, or reference specifically the BBC sponsored research (although it is more biased than what is acceptable) that you claim to be referencing. You will be enlightened.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:23 pmThat’s not how we elect presidents, now is it?
Are you really this obtuse?
Really? What “success†would that be exactly, Iraq, North Korea …. ?
I would say we are a successful nation. In terms of economy, freedoms, etc.
The real test: go around the world and ask people “would you like to move to the United States” and almost invariably they would say ‘yes’.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:28 pmIf America could be defined as a single person today he/she would be broke, deeply in debt, prone to violent behavior, plagued with delusions of grandeur, have a gambling addiction, have no moral compass, bi-polar, anti-social, lost contact with reality, a persecution complex, undependable, deceitful, insane? yeah, I’d say, etc.. Yup, I’m jealous. This ‘person’ should be in jail, for his/her own protection, and ours.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:29 pmThat’s right, Bill, we’ll be greeted as liberators , won’t we. As Iranians stand up, we’ll stand down. There will be some folks who want to cut and run, as the allies and Iranians die by the thousands, but we will stay the course! Just like how it happened in Iraqistan!
Please, just pull your your head out of your rectum, Bill. The cosy, warm little dream of yours is over. Your ideology has failed.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:29 pm#72-Chase,
An intentional misrepresentation is still a lie. Please cite the poll which supports your assertion that the vast majority of the world would like to move to the United States of America.
I suggest you re-examine your argument. Obviously it is not on solid footing if you have to use deception in order to support it. The evil you seek is within you and no amount of senseless blathering is going to gain converts to your “beliefs”.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:33 pmb. Iran is viewed more negatively than the US by the world.
Knew that was bollix.
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252
Moreover, even as concerns about Iran have increased, somewhat more Britons believe that the U.S. military presence in Iraq represents a great danger to stability in the Middle East and world peace than say that about the current government in Iran (by 41%-34%). In Spain, fully 56% say the U.S. military presence in Iraq is a great danger to the stability of the Middle East and world peace; just 38% regard the current government in Iran in the same way. Among America’s traditional allies, Germany is the only country where more people say Iran is a great danger than offer the same view of the U.S. military presence in Iraq (by 51%-40%).
Considering that both India and China, accounting for roughly 2.5 Billion global citizens, see the US in Iraq as a greater danger than Iran, it’s clear that a majority think the US is the real problem. I have to say, I agree.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:33 pmYou here kindness?
Anyways, of couse we’ll be cheered and showered in flowers!
God is on our side!!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:33 pmAuthor Daniel Ellsberg Says Government May Have Carried Out 9/11
July 19th, 2006 at 1:34 pmKristol should either be put under arrest for inciting WWIII, or deported to Israel for being a Zionist agent!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:34 pm#72: Are you really this obtuse?
Well, it strikes me that it’s not particularly “obtuse” to say that Bush wasn’t elected democratically. He would have been elected democratically if we had counted up the votes and found that he had more than his opponent(s). We didn’t do that. The votes were not counted. Indeed, the AP’s unofficial recount found that Gore would have won Florida if all the votes had been counted. That’s not democracy.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:35 pmThe real test: go around the world and ask people “would you like to move to the United States†and almost invariably they would say ‘yes’.
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
Very few Europeans would say THAT. No health care, social provisions and rampant gun crime? No thanks, rational people understand that sensible societies look after the disadvantaged. It’s really just enlightened self interest to ensure society has a safety net.
God the US? I wouldn’t even pass through one of your airports!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:36 pmWhy do obviously out of touch f*cks like this guy
still get air play? What asshole thinks that
“strategic bombings” would ever be embraced by
anyone? Once the collateral damage to infrastructure
and the bloody and dying starts to happen, it
will only steel the population against the
agressor(s).
Inept moron. Just stay off TV.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:36 pmOn the otherhand, we should be supporting, covertly, an internal revolution. When they have built the critial mass of support and go military themselves, we can be there to support them. We cannot lead the way.
Comment by Chase
July 19th, 2006 at 1:37 pm—————
…we,we,we,all the way home…
chickenhawk
I would be worried that you would start ethnically cleansing the conservative movement.
wha da heck…?
The conservative movement IS about ethnics.
They hate blacks, mexicans, arabs, muslims, chinese, japanese and russians….the list is long.
Sounds to me like the conervative movement is exactly that what you deny it to be. The fundie neo-con theocrats are all about the ethnic cleansing of the world.
You have taken on the personality of the hitler youth baby skull sucker and you seem to have become a member of the ‘devil race’ itself.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:38 pm#75 – No poll. Just a gut thought.
Do you think most people in Africa would say “eh, no thanks”. What about Mexico? What about Asia? Nah, no thanks, we’ll stay here in the backwater, eating bugs. We don’t like having jobs, making money, having freedoms.
#76 – Good survey, but limited. The question posed is even less applied to the claim above.
This is a dumb argument. Iran is not a threat. Is that what you think? Dipshit.
What’s up with the idiots today. Where are the slightly less dumb among you?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pm“Who is more of a danger to and wreaking more havoc on humanity?”
“With Iran included in this year’s poll, it has displaced the US as the nation with the most countries giving it a negative rating.”
Chase – I assume that it’s great for the U.S. now that we are rated the SECOND most dangerous country, instead of the top rated previously? WOW…that’s some terrific selling point!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pmOK, here are some questions for all:
How many troops would we be sending to the border between Iraq and Iran?
How many troops would we need in reserve to fill in at any of the other flash points after we attack Iraq?
What sacrifices will this president demand of the American people to support this war?
Will the amount of chest thumping going on now be enough to justify the deaths of untold thousands of our soldiers?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pmI refuse businesses that have Fox on their TVs and I tell them.
Comment by Destroy the DLC — July 19, 2006 @ 1:11 pm
but maybe i have prompted a change… at least i spoke up…
July 19th, 2006 at 1:40 pmi got the medical clinic that i use to change from fox…
doesn’t hurt to speak up, explain the facts…
besides, i’m in a very red county in downstate illinois –
gotta keep on tryin’…
#81 – Bush won the majority of Electors. That’s how we elect presidents. Period.
#82 – So youre not an American?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:41 pm#89 – What do you have them change the channel to?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:42 pmhey 83! we already started that [it's our culture] now if we could only get Paris Hilton to go there, we can ’shock & awe’ them. think south park’s paris hilton episode.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:45 pmKristol is off his lithium again.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:46 pmIf I recall, the NY Times and USA Today did recounts in ALL of Florida. And the results were the same, BUSH WON!!!!!!!!! Geez, he wins again easily (yes easily) in 04, and here we are in 2006 and this conspiracy vote rigging nonsense is laughable. Oh, public opinion polls offer “opinions”. I hope we all know what an “opinion” is. Just like I hope we all know what a “conspiracy” is……
July 19th, 2006 at 1:46 pmBush won the majority of Electors. That’s how we elect presidents. Period.
Sure, but it’s still not very “Democratic” by any means. I mean, why poll the electorate then?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:47 pmKristol and Richard Pearle are criminals making irresponsible statements based on half-baked ideology. They should be held accountable for their actions and statements after the regime is ousted.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:47 pm#85-Chase,
I cite facts and truths, you rely upon your “gut”. And then you attempt to dispute the facts with more senseless blathering from your gut? Your logic or, more accurately, the monumental lack of logic, is as absurd as it is disturbing.
Let me know when you choose to exist in reality. I will be more than happy to converse with you at that time but I will not participate in your current foolishness any longer.
May peace be with us all. (and, yes, that includes Iranians)
July 19th, 2006 at 1:48 pmI’ll tell you what is so wierd about BK, When he goes on Jon Stewarts show, he’s candid, he’s articulate, he admits goofs that bushco has done.
But put him on Phaux & he’s the kool-Aide drinker from hell.
I don’t think lithium is strong enough to correct his imbalance.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:48 pmWhat a thot ,whewwww lets just invade all countries and force them to lay down at bush’s feet.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:48 pmSen. Hillary Clinton yesterday told a crowd of Israel supporters that she agreed with every act of aggression by them against Lebanon, and she said we would attack Mexico if some thugs kidnapped a couple of our soldiers too? Hillary has lost her mind > she has even pissed off the Mexican people now! So according to Hillary if some drug lord kidnapped a couple of our National Guard troops, then we would blow up all the bridges in Mexico, and bomb their power plants, and their airports too? She is as crazy as Bush and unfit to be president in 2008!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:48 pmIs this guy for real? Does anyone know if this guy has children old enough for the military? If so they need to go sign up right away.
Why is it always the ones that are spewing this crap to go to war with Iran doesn’t have their kids over there fighting for us Americans. Maybe Kristol should go to Iran to live than he can see how the rest of the world lives.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:50 pm#55 – sure you refuted the point, don’t have an argument with that but coming second in the ‘worlds biggest bastard’ contest is no accolade.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:50 pmSuccess breeds jealousy? Success bombing the crap out of people breeds hatred, chase – sorry to disappoint.
chase – i don’t HAVE them change the channel to anything…
July 19th, 2006 at 1:55 pmmaybe i didn’t phrase that right…
but i DO let them know that fox is notorious for lies and false propoganda and shouldn’t be on in a public space because of the LIES…
last time i was in there, it was Oprah…
Hillary has lost her mind > she has even pissed off the Mexican people now! So according to Hillary if some drug lord kidnapped a couple of our National Guard troops, then we would blow up all the bridges in Mexico, and bomb their power plants, and their airports too? She is as crazy as Bush and unfit to be president in 2008!
I’ll second that. She is one crazy to even consider that kind of thing. If some nut job launches a rocket from Canada, does the US plan to trash the place? C’mon, this is so completely “one rule for the rich and another for the poor” nonsense.
#82 – So youre not an American?
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 1:41 pm
Nope. Irish, living in Sweden, watching with disbelief as the US dismantles itself.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#95 – To choose the electors… actually just read this.
#97 – That’s one thing I said, one, that I cannot support with facts (nor did I ever pretend I could). I implied that I believed most people in this world would move to the US, given the chance. Can I prove it? No. I thought I had heard of a survey along this line, but I can’t find it.
It was a gut feeling. That’s all. The same way 98% of the posts on here are just guesses, gut feelings unsupported by fact.
#101 – He in fact does. I think it’s pretentious of you to be “signing up” someone for war based only upon the positions of their parents.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#75 – and that’s the reason why people distinguish between the american people and the government – they dislike america for denying by force of arms and free-trade neo-liberalism what they reserve for themselves. you’d have thought the slack the world cuts you americans would have given out after 2004 when you put the chimp back in for ‘four more wars’…maybe it will now in lebanon.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:57 pmI’m all in favor of doing this above the table, because I firmly believe democracy is ‘right’.
Comment by Chase — July 19, 2006 @ 12:35 pm
This reminds me of my mother’s advice that “I didn’t know what I was missing,” because I don’t like mushrooms. Try forcing mushrooms on a kid and see how much they like it.
Try forcing democracy on a sovereign nation and see how much they like. Whether you have deemed democracy “right” is neither here nor there. It is not our role to tell other countries what kind of government they must have.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:57 pmBrian you are lucky to live in Sweden > cool nation! TP editor lives there supposedly as well?!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pmNobody wants to stand behind their words and answer these questions?
How many troops would we be sending to the border between Iraq and Iran?
How many troops would we need in reserve to fill in at any of the other flash points after we attack Iraq?
What sacrifices will this president demand of the American people to support this war?
Will the amount of chest thumping going on now be enough to justify the deaths of untold thousands of our soldiers?
I read a lot of how we should be whipping democracy on others around the world and how bad other governments are but the true logistics of your statements would require the largest amassing of military might and the deepest of sacrifices of all Americans (and any other country willing to join). who in these postings is willing to die for there causes as well as sending their children off to war.
The chest thumpers here nitpick and banter about symantics. The asswipe this post is originally about is pushing for the self fufilling prophecy of WWIII from the comfort of his hall of mirrors. He does not speak for me.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:59 pmUnited States to Israel: you have one more week to blast Hizbullah
The US is giving Israel a window of a week to inflict maximum damage on Hizbullah before weighing in behind international calls for a ceasefire in Lebanon, according to British, European and Israeli sources.
READ SOURCE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER
July 19th, 2006 at 1:59 pm#103 – UCLA Pol Sci Prof study on liberal bias – here.
#104 – Have you ever been here?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:00 pm#89
I like vegetables and 8.5×11 paper.
Non-sequiturs uber alles, you f*cktard.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:01 pmA true wingnut!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:03 pmIf they plan on bombing or invading Iran I don’t think that the Director of Lessons Learned is earning her $100,000+ paycheck.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:03 pmBrian you are lucky to live in Sweden > cool nation! TP editor lives there supposedly as well?!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 19, 2006 @ 1:58 pm
Really, I had no idea. Sweden IS great. If only the whole world was run the way Sweden is …..
Health Care, Social Provisions, free education up to 3rd level. Capitalisim with the it’s worst excesses eliminated. The Swedes have NO idea how good they’ve got it. Mind you, Ireland has been doing well too.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:04 pm#1 – That is a briliant analogy. It points out how our policy is not only stupid, but arrogant. We already knew that, but now it seems even more arrogant. That must be because I’m taken in just a tiny bit by the idea that the USA can solve the world’s problems, and that it should solve them. Thanks for disabusing me.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:07 pmPost 114 Brian > what are the requirements to emigrate to Sweden? If Bush declares martial law, then I need a place to flee from dictatorship!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:09 pmIt is almost surreal how the neo-cons inside and outside the Bush administration are so ignorant and arrogant that they still want a full-scale war with Iran, even after the debacle in Iraq. Are the right-wing fat cats will ing to fight in, and pay for, this new war? I doubt that.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
The GOP House ignores the Constitution yet again. And are we in a jihad against Muslims? Yes, says a GOP Congressman.
Plus, Israel targets a UN compound in Lebanon filled with civilians.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:09 pmOnly on SSA Blog
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog.php
#104 – Have you ever been here?
I think you mean 103. You seem to have the posts slightly out of sync, or maybe it’s me?
Yep, in 2000 and I loved it. I actually write in my Blog about how utterly my attitude towards the US has changed, been devastated by the horror of the last couple of years. Bush has at least thrown into sharp relief the utterly self defeating lunacy of nationalisim, that is the silver lining of his dreadful era.
I really loved the US of 2000, but now I wouldn’t pass through the place for fear of arrest and detention. Not likely of course, but no longer utterly impossible, so why run the risk?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:11 pmPost 114 Brian > what are the requirements to emigrate to Sweden? If Bush declares martial law, then I need a place to flee from dictatorship!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 19, 2006 @ 2:09 pm
I’ve no idea!! As an EU citizen, I can just arrive and buy a house, so we did!! Vive la EU!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:12 pm#93
Jim, forget about trying to convince liberals that Gore and Kerry actually lost. They have invented these conspiracy theories to help them sleep at night. You could hit them with the truth like a two by four and they still wouldn’t get it. They are like a bunch of mind-numbed robots. Maybe when they grow up and gain more wisdom and knowledge they will see the light.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:13 pmWell post 119 Brian > find out what the requirements are for an American to emigrate or to seek political asylum in Sweden? Nice you could move their so easily!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pmHere yah go Jay:-)
http://www.migrationsverket.se/english.html
July 19th, 2006 at 2:15 pm#120 Randy
Well, sometimes its good to inject a little bit of “reality” on here every now and then, even though your right, people hear what they want to hear. Some of these conspiracy theories are WAY out there. Take Humanist for example, he’s pretending to live over seas!!!!!! Cracks me up:)
July 19th, 2006 at 2:17 pm#120-Randy,
The world could care less about your sophomoric political squabbling. You could elect PeeWee Herman and it really wouldn’t matter.
Please, just stop the murdering and destroying that you use your politics to obfuscate. You have become a nation of ignorant, murderous, and gluttonous malcontents. That’s your problem, not who is or isn’t your chief malcontent.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:18 pmUnited States to Israel: you have one more week to blast Hizbullah
The US is giving Israel a window of a week to inflict maximum damage on Hizbullah before weighing in behind international calls for a ceasefire in Lebanon, according to British, European and Israeli sources..
READ SOURCE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER
July 19th, 2006 at 2:19 pmOh yeah, baby, they’ll greet our troops with roses! Lots and lots of roses. No doubt about that at all. You go in first, Bill.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:21 pmPost 122 Brian > thanks that is exactly the information I need! I will not remain in the United States if Bush declares himself a fascist dictator despot! I would then be forced to seek asylum overseas, so Sweden seems to be a good location, with a nice socialistic type govt.!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:21 pm#123-Jim,
July 19th, 2006 at 2:22 pmPlease sir, name one conspiracy theory that I have suggested. And then cite specifically any claims of mine that you wish to dispute or challenge. You are neither qualified nor ordained to speak for me, please do not attempt to do so again.
Kristolnacht and his warmongering ilk can spew their Crazy, Bullshit rhetoric about their failed policy of hegemony under the banner of the stars and stripes that they’ve been dreaming about for decades now but it isn’t going to make a damn bit of difference. The Joint Chiefs is NEVER going to go along with another meatgrinder expedition in the sandbox. First of all, Iran has not suffered under a decade of sanctions like Sadaam had. They have a large, well-trained standing army that we could never go toe to toe with given the current condition of our military thanks to our fiasco in Iraq. Many would argue that we should just bomb them. That presents a whole other set of problems. Muqtada al-Sadr has already said that should the US attack or bomb Iran, he will order the Mehdi Army (the militia of ~50,000 heavily armed men who answer to him) to reengage Coalition (in particular American) forces in Iraq. For those of you who don’t follow the internal politics in Iraq, MANY members of the Mehdi Army are the very police officers and soldiers that we have been training for the past 2 years. Think it’s hard for our troops to tell who the enemy is now? This does not even begin to address Iran’s influence with the Dawa party and SCIRI (the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq) which, currently, control more than 70% of Iraq’s newly minted Parliament. Attacking Iran in any way shape or form would be the worst foreign policy blunder since…well, since we preemptively attacked a sovereign nation that had neither attacked nor threatened us. The only problem for Kristol and the other ghouls of PNAC is that the American people aren’t buying their brand of BS anymore though. He can spew his effluvium of bilous rhetoric all he wants; he’s still been nothing but wrong in the past and he’s wrong now!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pm#128
Contrary to what you believe, I and everyone else here on TP (and I really enjoy TP) have the right to say anything they want. One of the great things of being an AMERICAN is our freedom of speech. You claim that America wants to take over the world. Got proof? Nope. No proof = CONSPIRACY….. By the way, what country are you pretending to be from?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:27 pmI don’t like George Bush but if Spain attacks us in a effort to forment “regime change” sign me up for the U.S. Army. What makes these peopleo think that they want there contry attacked?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:27 pm[...] this….read on Filed Under: War coverage, Iran, Right Wing Pundits Trackback Permalink postCount(’10019058′); | EMail ThisPost [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pmThis makes me sick. Instead of taking a position of even-handedness and acting as peacemakers, our Congress approves of the disproportionate response of Israel in Lebanon….and that includes Democrats! None of these people have any real principles.
“Democratic and Republican congressional leaders are rushing to offer unalloyed support for Israel’s offensive against Hezbollah fighters, reflecting a bipartisan desire to not only defend a key U.S. ally but also solidify long-term backing of Jewish voters and political donors in the United States, according to officials and strategists in both parties. With Israel intensifying its air and artillery attacks on Lebanon and warning of a protracted war, the Senate yesterday unanimously passed a bipartisan resolution endorsing Israel’s military campaign and condemning Hezbollah and its two backers, Iran and Syria.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071801415.html?referrer=email
July 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pmJim, Chase and any other fitting their mold. It’s easy to throw out little talking points but they are only farts in the wind. What Mr. Kristol is pushing is for a massive and extensive military involvment the likes we have never seen. Are you standing behind what he is suggesting or not?
Are you OK with a military force of over 700,000 US troops being sent to the middle east and elsewhere? Will you stand behind the sacrifce af gas rationing? Is this a moral objective worth killing and dying for?
Answer these questions or just blather on in the mindless little chatter that you seem happy to gas out.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:31 pmWe would be greeted with flowers and sweets. Ken Adelman told me so.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:33 pm#123 Hey JIM, I’m too pretending to be Spaniard and live far away from the USA. Really, I live in your city and just now I’m watching you through the window, while you’re staring at your screen! Beware, the coffee jar is about to fall! Now, what are you doing without pants? And what is in the window you just closed? Yuk!
July 19th, 2006 at 2:33 pm#130-Jim,
Free speech is a beautiful thing and everyone should enjoy such. Attempting to speak for someone else, however, is not “free speech” but is deceitful and disrespectful.
Now, I have never claimed that the USA wants to take over the world, that’s your claim. I just expose your murderous ways and demand that you cease such. Quite frankly, you cannot even manage your own country so the “world” is definitely beyond your reach and capabilities. Your arrogance is what is blinding you there.
And finally, I am a resident of Earth. The third planet from our sun in this solar system. Currently it is the only planet in our solar system that is inhabitable by humans so I have to assume that we live in the same “place”. Your limited perspective is self-imposed, by the way. You really should expand your mind but, that’s your choice.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pmjustanobserver
I am against Iran having nuclear weapons. IRAN CANNOT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS. How do we solve this, I’m not sure. Iran has been given a deadline to decide rather to accept or refuse a deal that has U.N. approval. The ball is in IRAN’s court. Would you justanobserver accept a nuclear Iran?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:37 pmBill Kristol presents a clear and present danger to America. Could someone please rid us of this meddlesome pundit?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:39 pm#138
Funny, how you blast everyone who disagrees with you and then you turn around with your little “peace” slogan. It’s really funny. You forgot to say what country your pretending to be from?
And peace be upon you and your cows and fellow trees, or, however you say it….:)
July 19th, 2006 at 2:42 pmWould you rather we topple the Iranian leadership now, before it acquires nuclear weapons, or wait until it is too late? The death tolls will surely measure in the millions, not the thousands. If any of you think that the current Iranian leadership would not use nuclear weaponry to obliterate Israel and the West, you are sadly delusional. The world saw the danger Hitler posed years before WW II, but the ubiquitous peaceniks of the time made similar arguments as those posted today. Sure, the majority of the world is all for love and peace, but wake up and smell the cafe latte — it takes only one Hitler to push the world toward oblivion. I know it is fashionable and trendy to call Bush a Nazi, but if you can divert your hatred for one moment, you will see a true Nazi and he’s not American, he’s Iranian and he wants The Bomb. He does not mince his words. He’s telling us exactly what he intends to do us once he has his weaponry. Do we have the will to stop him now before he fulfills his promise? Will the peaceniks once again lead us down the path of least resistance until the inevitable happens? Do not delude yourself — the Islamic extremists want us all dead. Rather than an all-out war, perhaps merely taking out the leadership is all we need to do (which would have averted WW II had Hitler and his cronies been assassinated). Anything short of that will surely lead to war — either now, or after they have acquired nuclear weapons.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:42 pm#137
Are you and Humanist roomates?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:44 pm#143 Nah, we are both heterosexual males and live in different countries. We don’t fit in your hot fantasies.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:47 pm[...] Bill Kristol on FOX has claimed that Iranians would welcome a US invasion with open arms. Hmmn…where have I heard that before? Oh yeah…he said the same thing about Iraq. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 2:48 pm#141-Jim,
Peace is not an amusing “slogan”, but is a sophisticated concept and is the ultimate goal for any intellectual, compassionate, and advanced society. I see now why it escapes you.
And I keep answering your question but you seem too obtuse to understand, so I will make it simple. Step out of your house, apartment, or cave, look forward, and then rotate around 360 degrees. Now, what you just saw is where I am “from” and where I “live”. I hope that was simple enough for you.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:48 pmHow would you stop Iran commentbyjim?
I don’t think we can. They can do it all w/o having to buy anything on the international market, so no ability to stop them there.
Do you think bombing the hell out of them will stop them? Then, they’ll just build their refinement labs into a mountain. Some reports say they’ve already done this. Invade them?
I think we don’t have a choice. We can either kill too many people to enforce our will, or we can accept them into the nuclear club. Do I want them in the nuclear club? No, but i think the alternatives are far worse.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:48 pmWhy does this crazy man have so much influence and power. A definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. This insane guy (I do mean INSANE!), and his INSANE partners are litererally INSANE! and they are in charge! Do they represent the will of the majority of the people in this country? Something is happening here and we don’t know what it is…… no wait we do know…. we are watching the dismantleing of the US as we have known it. It is being looted before our very eyes by these very INSANE and GREEDY people who want all the toys.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:52 pmWould you rather we topple the Iranian leadership now, before it acquires nuclear weapons, or wait until it is too late?
Comment by Redbone — July 19, 2006 @ 2:42 pm
Interesting, this rant is almost word for word what we were told about Iraq -down to the Hitler reference- when the Bush administration was advocating their “pre-emptive strike” doctrine.
Fool me once…
July 19th, 2006 at 2:55 pm[...] willfully ignorant or dumbass or both and more? [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 2:56 pmKristol should sentenced to spend the rest of his life on a desert island with Ann Coulter, a jar of chili oil and a strap-on dildo.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:56 pm139 JIM you didn’t answer any of the questions. Iran does not have nuclear weapons at this time and is years away from obtaining them. The prospects for negotiations with them are still quite good. I’m not in favor of Iran having nukes but all I hear is grandstanding and no real understanding of what it means to put boots on the ground to accomplish these goals.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:57 pm65 years ago, another bunch of fascist lunatics like Kristol and his neo-con buddies, decided that world domination through war was the answer to their countries problems. They also decied that while they were invading and occupying their neighbors, it would be a good idea to exterminate an entire race of people just because they were different in religeon, race, their desires, economic status etc.
You would think that as a Jew, Kristol would have more compassion for muslims and Arabs rather than echoing the same sickening mantra as Adolph Hitler.
What is it with these neo-con jews and fascism anyway? Have they not learned the lesson histroy has taught regarding fascism and the wholesale genocide / holocaust of innocent people?
July 19th, 2006 at 2:59 pmEvil Spaniard and Humanist
I’m sorry guys, it was not my intention to imply that you were gay. Gays have every bit of rights that everyone else has here in the good ole USA. Except marriage. Humanist, I’m also glad that you know that you live on the third planet from the Sun. To bad your willing to let Iran have nuclear weapons. They just might do things that lead to your little world going,,,, BOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peace be unto to you and EVIL Spaniard. Or, how ever you say it…..
July 19th, 2006 at 3:00 pmIf you thought Iraq was GREAT, just wait for Iran!!!!
It will be even easier. MORE flowers will be thrown at us!!! More nations will cheer us!!!! We’ll be greeted as the liberatringest liberators who ever liberated!!!
And it won’t cost us a dime or a single American life.
Trust us. Have we ever steered you wrong?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pmjustanobserver
I did not say we need to put troops on the ground, bomb, or isolate Iran. We need to do whatever we need to do to keep Iran from having nuclear weapons. I think we are close to an agreement on this. We don’t know how close Iran is to making a nuke, they won’t allow inspections. The world is involved in the issue. There is a deadline approaching. I’m willing to let it play out. Whatever the result, Iran CANNOT have nuclear weapons.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pm[...] Oh. My. God: This morning on Fox, Bill Kristol continued to escalate his calls for war against Iran, stating, “We can try diplomacy. I’m not very hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.†Kristol claimed the people of Iran would embrace “the right use of targeted military force.†He added that military force could “trigger changes in Iran,†causing them to embrace regime change. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pmHow do you plan to negotiate with Iran? They have publically come out and said they would like to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. How do you appease them? Without the threat of invasion hanging over their heads, why would they even consider talking to us in the first place? Just because you think the prospects of negotiations are still quite good doesn’t mean that they will live up to any agreement that ever came out of them. This whole situation sounds a whole lot like pre WWII negotiations with Hitler and the liberals playing the part of Chamberlain. Thank goodness for Churchill or we’d all be speaking German right now.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pmJim and Redbone, nobody here has said we want Iran to have nukes. This type of ranting with lack of planning has put us where we are now in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Congressman Gil Gutknecht found the situation in Iraq more bleak than he anticipated during a weekend visit to the war zone, and said a partial withdrawal of some American troops might be wise.
So now before we can attempt to either clean up the mess made or sweep it under the rug you want to blast holes in another country. Sounds grand but lacks any substance. Fear mongering is no way to run this country.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#160
Was 9/11 fear mongering? I’ve read on hear quotes from people saying the twin towers were rigged to fall. That the U.S. allowed 9/11 to happen. Charles Gibson, he’s on TP all the time.
Your not like him, but war is different today. Were not fighting the Iraq military, or the Army of Afganistan…. We are fighting a SMALL group of people who have taken the Koran and twisted it to fit their perverted religous beliefs.
I don’t want war. The United States doesn’t want war. But Hamas, Hizbollah, Al Queda, Syria, and Iran, THESE NUTS PREACH WAR AND THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!!!!!!!!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:14 pm#155-Jim,
I have never stated whether I am or am not gay, and there you are again attempting to speak for me even though I asked politely for you to cease such. Of course such “qualifications†do not matter to the intelligent, but for you it seems to be an issue. I would suggest seeing a psychiatrist before the latency overwhelms you.
As far as nuclear weapons, I am against ANYONE having them, especially the insane Americans who are the only ones to have used them before, and the crazy ones threatening the world with their use again. You want to identify the nuclear enemy, look in the mirror.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:15 pmThis whole situation sounds a whole lot like pre WWII negotiations with Hitler and the liberals playing the part of Chamberlain. Thank goodness for Churchill or we’d all be speaking German right now.
I was wondering when this drivel would turn up.
If it’s a choice between the US invading Iran and touching off a regional conflagration, which could escalate to a global nuclear war, or Iran merely having nuclear weapons, I say let them have them.
The Soviets had them for 45 years and it didn’t do them a blind bit of good, in fact you could argue it actually did them harm. As for a nuclear armed theocracy? That cats long since out of the bag, it’s merely a question of when Pakistan implodes, not if.
Mind you, the Iranians have denied vigorously any intent to develop nuclear weapons. After Bush and Co’s track record, I’d trust those assurances more than anything Bush would say.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:16 pm157 JIM you are correct. We do need to put pressure on them. Look back a little time Randy another big evil country did have nukes and threatend us for over 30 years. We never did invade or attack the Soviet Union and look who is still standing. USSR wanted us wiped off the map but knew it would sign it’s own death warrant. Haven’t you ever heard the term ” I’d rather have them in the tent pissing out than having them outside pissing in?” There is displeasure within Iran with their government. We’ve seen what a mess can happen when we impose Democracy. Why not try to influence it without a war. They know bullseyes are already on their heads.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:16 pm[...] Neocon thinker and general moron Bill Kristol is now suggesting that the people of Iran would embrace a U.S. attack. Yeah sure, flowers on the streets just like Iraq… [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:17 pmThey keep telling him NOT to drink the Kool Aid..
July 19th, 2006 at 3:17 pmHitler was able to to get his people to all those terrible things because he used fear and smear (he smeared gay and liberals in addition to jews) – Just like Bill Krystol and fox news are using now!
This is 1 scary guy!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:18 pm#159-Randy,
Odd, it sounds to me like you are speaking “german†right now. You have learned much from your fuher.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pmMost posters are missing the point with Kristol. His predictions have been 100% right – for him and his constituency. One of PNAC’s main goals is to use US troops to eliminate Irahell’s enemies. Its worked like a charm so far. Iraq can’t even be called a country now, as it doesnm’t have a legitimate government.
Now Kristol and his ilk are attempting the same trick in Iran – to get the propaganda avalanche going to force the US to use its soldiers to get rid of a country that is absolutely no threat to the US, but to Israhell.
Regarding him as a nut-job who’s been proven wrong is completely misleading.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pmWhy has Chase turned into this Jim ….Jim when will you turn back into Chase?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:20 pmI am afraid that our country (USA) maybe the next Nazi Germany. He have to stop these neo – cons.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:21 pm161 9/11 was not a war it was a terrorist attack. I’m not going down the path of conspiracy. It was horrible, painful (I lost a friend on one of the planes) and we should continually go after Al Qiada for this. You are wrong though that war is different today. War has been going on since the dawn of time. The fear mongering that is escalating is pushing for anihilation. That means hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground along with possible nukes from us as a pre emptive strategic move. To get to that level and be successful the entire nation (and other nations as well) has to be behind it. The facts behind the chest thumping don’t meet the amount of blood that will be extracted from all of us.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:25 pm#150 Interesting, this rant is almost word for word what we were told about Iraq … when the Bush administration was advocating their “pre-emptive strike†doctrine.
Bury your head in the sand, my friend. Based on the intelligence at the time — the same intelligence Clinton used to base his “pre-emptive” rocket attack on an Iraqi asprin factory — the invasion of Iraq was justified, though poorly executed.
#154 What is it with these neo-con jews and fascism anyway? Have they not learned the lesson histroy has taught regarding fascism and the wholesale genocide / holocaust of innocent people?
In case they have forgotten, our friends in Sudan are more than willing to remind them daily.
#158 Oh. My. God: This morning on Fox, Bill Kristol continued to escalate his calls for war against Iran…
His call for “the right use of targeted military force” is not a call for war, rather regime change. The right use of targeted military force against Hitler could have ended WW II before it started.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:27 pmjustanobserver
How many time did the Soviets use suicide bombers in the name of GOD? How did the Soviets use a religion, A RELIGION, to push their agenda? How many times did the Soviets declare that they were acting in a way to glorify GOD? These wack jobs in the middle east preach the “end of the world”. THEY PREACH IT!!!! THEY ARE USING A RELIGION TO PROMOTE WORLD DESTRUCTION AGAINT THE INFIDELS!!!!! Not just Americans, ALL infidels……. Big huge different between what we are dealing with today than what we dealt with during the cold war. When you start playing the religion card, watch out man.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:28 pm#150 – Is that fear or fact that Iran is a threat to us? Its only fear! Didn’t you learn anything from this Iraq quagmirer? FACTS should rule, NOT FEAR!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:29 pmHistory and wisdom have both taught us repeatedly that War is the LAST resort of the courageous and righteous, but it is always the first call of the cowards and evildoers. Please consider this.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:30 pmWhen you see reputable media granting so much time and gravitas to a ritually wrongheaded pipsqueak like Kristol you understand better how the ancient Egyptians could worship an insect.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:31 pmRedbone,
Get your facts straight- Clinton ordered an attack on a pharma factory in Sudan, not Iraq.
How is the use of “targeted military force” not akin to war? How would the Iranians respond if we took out their leaders? Would they put up with that? I doubt it.
Get a clue, fool. We are already bleeding our Army and Marines to death in Iraq. We cannot afford another botched war- unless we are willing to reinstate the draft- are you willing to go fight?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:31 pmAnd then Jim in #174 only proves the point raised in #176. Please follow the wise and not the fanatics.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:33 pm[...] Bill Kristol continues to exist in his own private NeoconIdaho fantasy land. The interesting thing is that the landscape of this fantasy location has not changed in the past 4 years, only the name of it. This morning on Fox, Bill Kristol continued to escalate his calls for war against Iran, stating, “We can try diplomacy. I’m not very hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.†Kristol claimed the people of Iran would embrace “the right use of targeted military force.†He added that military force could “trigger changes in Iran,†causing them to embrace regime change.” [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:33 pmI’m a free speech absolutist, but when all this shakes out, can we bring Kristol and his ilk before a tribunal for fomenting crimes against humanity? The Allies did it at Nuremburg with propagandist Jules Streicher, and hung him by the neck til dead. I’d settle for a long stretch in Spandau prison with fellow neocons Perle, Woolsey, Ledeen, Wurmser, Addington, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove et al (notice I didn’t include Bush – he has a defense – he’s mentally incompetent).
July 19th, 2006 at 3:34 pmWhen is the left going to realize we are at war with an ideology that hates everything and everyone who is not part of it? We are the great Satan in their eyes, if you haven’t figured that out yet then I don’t know what to tell you. These terrorists want to do us harm. Should we turn a cheek and let them continue their assault? You can not negociate/appease these people. It has been proven time and time again. If you say it’s GWB fault because he went into IRAQ….your wrong. We weren’t in IRAQ when the first World Trade Center was attacked or the Colbar Towers, USS Cole and many other places.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:36 pmJIM,
July 19th, 2006 at 3:36 pmDo you honestly believe that the “wack jobs in the middle east” attacked us because we are infidels? They attacked us because they perceived that we support Israel and hate Palestinians and because they think we want to dominate them (and control their oil). Those people would not have attacked us if not for those things. What those “wack jobs” want most is for us to butt out so they can deal with their own affairs.
[...] own rather recent mistakes, or is an amoral asswipe. It’s hard to tell, isn’t it? Permalink| [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:38 pm#182
July 19th, 2006 at 3:39 pmAnswer: Never! This is why they can never be trusted with power again. Until the democratic party figures this out, they will never win a national election again.
174. First off, Communism was their religion and no they didn’t use suicide bombers against us. Either did Iraq or Iran. Afghanistan didn’t either but just supplied safe haven to the people who did (mostly Saudis, should we bomb them?)
If you so fervently believe that we need to get them before they get us then answer my earlier questions. At what level of sacrifce should this country be prepared to give and for what cause.
Missionaries for years have been creating converts (and some dying for that cause) without the use of escalated force.
Their fanatical religious bent is of great concern and can’t be looked at lightly. But it’s not a rallying cry for the US to jump into WWIII.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:40 pmBury your head in the sand, my friend. Based on the intelligence at the time(…)
Comment by Redbone — July 19, 2006 @ 3:27 pm
I sense it is you the one with his head firmly planted in the sand.
Whether or not the intelligence existed (it didn’t), and whether or not the invasion was justified (it wasn’t), fact remains Iraq did not have WMD, or a “reconstituted” nuclear program, or even pose a “pending, gathering” threat to the US.
Now here you are, rehashing the same old tired arguments that were used to sell the invasion of Iraq to the American people, only this time it is about Iran.
His call for “the right use of targeted military force†is not a call for war, rather regime change.
Another argument that was also used with Iraq: “The US does not do nation building; we just want to remove Saddam from power”.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:40 pmFrogcatcher,
The way you describe the Islamic radicals sounds to me like you’re also describing some of the outspoken conservatives in this country- they hold us liberals to be the “great Satan” and hate everyone who is not part of their collective.
These Islamic radicals would have nothing to do with us except for our meddling in the Middle East for oil and for our support of Israel.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:40 pmUmmmm…correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that almost exactly the same thing that the Bush administration said was going to happen in Iraq? That the people would welcome our soldiers with flowers…or some nonsense to that effect which failed to manifest itself as predicted, right up there with the idea that the war would only last six months and that revenues from the Iraqi oil fields would be enough to pay for it all? Puh-leeeeeeeze…
Some people never, never learn…and as Santanyana once said, “those who refuse to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.”
July 19th, 2006 at 3:41 pmHumanist
Your peaceful little third planet from the sun isn’t so sweet and full of roses. I wished it were. I’ve got a 19 month old son, a loving wife. I want whats best for them. Not me. To hell with me. I served my four years, I’m past my active duty days. But I’ll be damned a nation that SUPPORTS terrorism and has raped a religion as an excuse is allowed to obtain nuclear weapons. As I said earlier, the use force as a last resort, the ball is in Iran’s court. The world is focused on Iran.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:42 pmCOMMENT BY JIM,
You’ll be damned that Iran obtains nuclear weapons? What are you going to do to stop it? Send the pasty-faced Bill Kristol over to kick some ass?
Faaa. Your shit is weak.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:43 pm” Thanks for admitting that Bush wasn’t elected democratically.
That’s not how we elect presidents, now is it?
Are you really this obtuse? Comment by Chase”
Obtuse? What’s OBTUSE about pointing out that you claim to want to bring democracy like the US has to Iran, when Iran elected its president DEMOCRATICALLY and Bush wasn’t elected democratically.
Can you be that STUPID? It’s a rhetorical question, we all know you are.
“The real test: go around the world and ask people “would you like to move to the United States†and almost invariably they would say ‘yes’. Comment by Chase”
Really? Then why do most of the worlds migrants (56 million in 2002) live in Europe compared to (41 million in 2002) in the US? Europe has much more stringent immigration policies than the US does, yet there you go. You’re just like Seixon, you are full of stupid anecodal nationistic NAZI zeal, and are 100% devoid of intellect, facts, reality or common sense. You’re as dumb as a bag of gravel. DUHHH!!!! I’m ROTFL at how STUPID you are. You should try listening to a source other than that dumbass Limbaugh, because today you like STUPID thanks to him.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:46 pmIsn’t it reassuring that at this very moment, God Himself is whispering in George W. Bush’s ear to attack Iran?
July 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pmRyan,
OUCH! That hurt!
Nice job, man. I’m glad to see you are still kicking ass at this blog.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pm#190-Jim,
Peace is the natural state of the planet, the wars and violence are borne of human activity ie; by choice.
As far as a nation that SUPPORTS terrorism and has raped a religion, look no further than your own flag to see one of the worst perpetrators of those sins. If you refuse to see that, then you are truly lost.
The first step to correction is acknowledging the problem, no matter how inconvenient that truth may be.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pm“Ummmm…correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that almost exactly the same thing that the Bush administration said was going to happen in Iraq? Comment by Bluestocking”
Yes it is. The NeoCONazis are stupid dumbasses, as are the idiots that keep listening to the same rhetoric, during failure after failure. These radical reichwing extremists keep lying, and their DUMB minions like Chase keep lapping up the crap like it’s food of the gods. Being a CON is self selecting for idiocy.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:48 pm#182 – yes but the us was in saudi arabia, was unequivocably supporting israel in palestine ans was continuing to support dictatorships all across the region for the sake of oil. read bin laden’s manifesto, maybe then you will better understand the ideology you say we fight. if you think you can win simply by bombing and killing – you will have to kill all 1 billion muslims. that’s what it means to fight an ideology.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:48 pmHumanist,
July 19th, 2006 at 3:49 pmIt’s all right when “Christians” do it. They’re right and everyone else is wrong- after all, they’re just doing God’s work. Ask Bush.
Thank you Redleg — I did indeed speak without facts. The pharmaceutical plant was in Sudan. Clinton merely launched dozens of “pre-emptive” missiles in Iraq killing thousands of Iraqis, beginning the day before the House impeachment vote. My apologies.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:50 pm#190 – But we (usa) DO support terrorism. What do you think Israel has been doing to the past 40 years – kicking people out their homes and bull dozing entire communities! We only oppose terrorism when its against us.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:50 pm#194: I’m not that impressed. Hurling insults at people who disagree isn’t a logical or effective strategy. It just confirms the other side’s view that everyone on the left is crazy.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:52 pm#200 and doug the UN wanted to define terrorism as the use of violence against civilians for political gain, but when the definition promised to exclude occupied peoples’ right to resist, guess who vetoed the resolution? israel and the us……
July 19th, 2006 at 3:54 pmso leave jim. help us out some.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#198-Redleg,
From my readings and studies of the teachings of Chirst, I see very few actual “christians” in your land today. Especially those who continually tout themselves as christian authorities in public.
Simply ask yourself the WWJD question in regard to any of the United States’ actions as of late. Without exception, the answer is the total opposite of what your “christian” leaders choose to do. It’s a shame, and it’s heretical.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:55 pmthere is a term that perfectly captures Bill Kristol:
dementia
he really ought to get that checked out.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:55 pmRedleg
You know what I’m going to do. I’m going to vote, and keep winning elections. I’m going to help keep electing the right people to represent this country in a time of war. What are you going to do. Bitch and whine after you lose AGAIN and go around crying “THEY STOLE OUR ELECTION”!!!!! Spreading your “COSPIRACY BULLSHIT” Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa. You don’t even have anyone to vote for……. Hillary? Ha Ha Haaaa Haaaaaaaaaa…………..
July 19th, 2006 at 3:55 pmBut there are not enough flowers in Iran to throw at the feet of our gallant fighting men and women when they finish off another great victory.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#196 – NeoCONazis is EXACTLY what they are. I am going to start using that term in my blogs. I hope it catches on.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:56 pmJim,
If you think everyone on the left is crazy then you are pretty shallow.
Redbone,
July 19th, 2006 at 3:57 pmClinton was enforcing a U.N. resolution against Iraq. Don’t start with the “wag the dog” bullshit. Clinton didn’t invade Iraq and get us bogged down in a civil war.
#204 christianity was defined more by the council of nicea under the roman emporer constantine than anything else – christianity became the religion of rome, not of jesus. and those romans were no choirboys – set the stage for 2000 years of killing for jesus…
July 19th, 2006 at 3:58 pmWhat the warmongers here aren’t talking about is that MAD (mutually assured destruction, not the magazine) held the peace since WW II.
Even if Iran got nukes, their leaders would not risk their citizens being annailated. No one would. So, to suggest that they will be dangerous isn’t accurate. MAD still holds the peace in this world. Adding another player won’t change a thing.
So why bomb or invade Iran? Cause they’re nothing more than fascist bullies & think they can bully the whole damn world.
Look, it’s worked so well in Iraq & Afganistan.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#201-Jim,
The right hand calling the left hand “crazyâ€, and then the left hand responding that the right hand is “crazyâ€, only reveals that the body itself is crazy and is so insane that it is divided against itself.
I do not see any reason for gloating about that.
Peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#209: If you think everyone on the left is crazy then you are pretty shallow.
I don’t think that. You obviously didn’t read my post. What I’m saying is that name-calling is an ineffective strategy, and we shouldn’t congratulate one another for name-calling.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:59 pmJIM,
You can vote for whoever you want- just don’t claim that your side won in a landslide when they get only 51% of the popular vote.
By the way- I have yet to endorse Hillary Clinton as presidential candidate. Your little joke is misguided.
If you think this is how to fight a war, we’re really in big trouble. Perhaps Privates Kristol, Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest can turn the tide.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:00 pm#212: Agreed. We should congratulate one another for making thoughtful, coherent remarks that move the discussion forward. Who knows, sometimes we might even agree on something!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:02 pmRedleg
I never said that man, I respect someone that sticks to their guns, I can’t stand people that flip flop all over the place trying to be popular. I like to debate, I enjoy TP, and I try not to insult anyone. We are all in this together…… Sometimes I don’t think some people understand that………
July 19th, 2006 at 4:03 pm#215-Jim,
See, and not a single threat made or a single shot fired. War does not win the peace, peace overcomes war.
May peace be with us all.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:04 pm“You know what I’m going to do. I’m going to vote, and keep winning elections. Comment by JIM”
You mean like how Bush won in 2000 with 1/2 million fewer votes? ROTFL You are as dumb as Chase is.
“I’m going to help keep electing the right people to represent this country in a time of war. Comment by JIM”
We aren’t at war, we’re at an AUMF action. Even your STUPID REICHWINGER friends all claim this all of the time. If we were at war, then the Geneva conventions would apply.
“What are you going to do. Bitch and whine after you lose AGAIN and go around crying “THEY STOLE OUR ELECTIONâ€!!!!! Comment by COMMENT BY JIM ”
Bitch and whine describes the republican professional victims nicely. You have control over all 3 branches of government, and all you can do is bitch and whine about liberals. If you’re so sure you’re gonna win, then STFU and sit in the corner like a nice boy instead of the spoiled brat you come across here as. Your parents should have taken a parenting class, because you’re a loser fool.
“Spreading your “COSPIRACY BULLSHIT†Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa. You don’t even have anyone to vote for……. Hillary? Ha Ha Haaaa Haaaaaaaaaa………….. Comment by COMMENT BY JIM ”
First of all, most liberals aren’t very fond of Hillary. She’s too conservative, and too much like you and the rest of your idiot friends. You and your CONs have Frist and Gingrich to vote for so far, and you’re criticizing others for not having anyone to vote for? ROTFL Now THAT’s RICH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA.
As for CONSPIRACY theories, you mean like the one that GW won in 2000? Now THAT’s a conspiracy theory.
WHAT AN IDIOT you are…
July 19th, 2006 at 4:04 pmCOMMENT BY JIM,
I must have you confused with “Jim.”
Let’s all try to get along.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:04 pmI’ve got a 19 month old son, a loving wife. I want whats best for them. Not me. To hell with me. I served my four years, I’m past my active duty days. But I’ll be damned a nation that SUPPORTS terrorism and has raped a religion as an excuse is allowed to obtain nuclear weapons. As I said earlier, the use force as a last resort, the ball is in Iran’s court. The world is focused on Iran.
I ams sympathetic to the concern you express, but how much is offsetting the risk of an American death worth in the currency of the lives of unknown foreigners? Ten, a hundred, a million? How safe will it really make you?
During the 2nd World War, it was common for German troops to kill local villagers in reprisal for resistance attacks.
How is “fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here†any different in terms of outcomes for the villagers? Did it help the Germans much?
I’m not a fan of the Iranian government, but I also don’t agree that they, or the Iranian people should be incinerated or pitched into a decade of turmoil, on the whim of the likes of Bill Kristol.
Snap out of the funk these neocons have chased you into, get a damn spine and face up to the modest risk we all share and stop your goverment killing innocent people.
Then get your government around a table with all the other governments, and sort this stuff out. This is just the same nonsense that every developed nation state has been through (haves versus have nots), now played out on a planetary scale. Lets skip the revolution (or the counter revolution) and cut straight to the negotiations.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:05 pmGravel-voiced bleepin’ chickenhawk.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:06 pmso, when do we take out the U.S. government ? Otherwise, loonies like Kristol will lead us to paradise in a radio-active plume?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pm#217: You’re preaching to the choir.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pmLet’s all start packing heat. Whenever we identify a problem, just start shooting to trigger some change around us.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pm[...] Shorter Bill Kristol: “You know that cluster**** we call Iraq? Let’s do it again because my legacy is being Dan Quayle’s do-boy and I deserve more!” [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pm190 (JIM)
But I’ll be damned a nation that SUPPORTS terrorism and has raped a religion as an excuse is allowed to obtain nuclear weapons.
Too late, America’s had the bomb for over 60 years.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:08 pm#223-Jim,
July 19th, 2006 at 4:08 pmNo, I’m attempting to wake the choir up.
What a scum sucking pig !
July 19th, 2006 at 4:10 pm#219 Redleg
I agree. Gotta go fellas, time to go home. May scream at you guys later though. Even you Ryan Nut!!!!!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:11 pmHe just wants ” war, war, war and more war.” As one of his Faux cohorts
July 19th, 2006 at 4:12 pmsaid on Sunday.
Ok so we have occupied ( oops liberated) Afganistan & Iraq and now were are supposed to invade Iran. Turkey has made threats to invade Iraq to deal with the Kurds. Israel has invaded Gaza & Lebanon and maybe Syria (who knows). Do we get Egypt to invade Saudi Arabia so most of the oil is unavailable? We need to get someone to invade Jordan so they won’t feel left out.
Could we Russia to invade Iran? How does Kristol keep all of this stuff straight?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:14 pm#226 -yeehah – terrance hits one over the fence – its outta here!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:14 pmWashington also provides Israel with consistent diplomatic support. Since 1982, the US has vetoed 32 Security Council resolutions critical of Israel, more than the total number of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members. It blocks the efforts of Arab states to put Israel’s nuclear arsenal on the IAEA’s agenda. The US comes to the rescue in wartime and takes Israel’s side when negotiating peace.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:15 pmI happen to live in the real world, today! Do I think past US policies have impacted some of the things going on today, my answer is yes. We don’t disagree. However, as the world is now, we as a nation have to decide if we are going to allow the Islamofacist’s ideology to kill us or are we going to confront it. We can go on and on about who’s to blame and that my friend isn’t going to solve anything. We really need to come together both Democrat’s and Republicans or we will all parish. These are critical times.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:18 pmJIM ‘the CIA has overthrown the gov’t of Iran twice successfully and failed a third time ,at which point Saddam was armed to the teeth for a war that took roughly 1 Million lives ! That makes us the good guys ?If you were an Iranian would you trust the US? The entire world thru the UN has spoken in a united voice against the behavior of Israel for more than 50 years and the US has repeatedly been the single Veto of any sanctions for just as long ,That makes us the good guys ? The US has been toppling democratically elected gov’ts , assassinating world leaders and supporting abominable dictators since the end of the second WW and that makes us the good guys ? The US wants to rid the world of WMD’S while testing a new generation of nuclear weapons and refusing to to officially acknowledge that that paragon of self restaint ,Israel posseses them and that makes us safer ? Some how I’mhaving a hard time following your logic !
July 19th, 2006 at 4:28 pm#104 Kristol is so willing to go to war with Iran so he should sacrifice his children and if he has Grandchildren also should go to fight for America. He has a big mouth. He is not creditable anyway.
He is a coward because he was never in the militery in the 1960’s.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:29 pm235. Then in real world numbers what should we expect? To consider another front in the “War on Terror” you’ll need a lot of troops and a lot of money. Maybe 7 to 10 nukes strategically placed would do the job. Maybe not. Should we start the draft now or wait while the panic machine ramps up some more. We’ve been living with the spector of another 9/11 for some time now so we’re probably numb to the average scare tactic. Has to be something big to get us behind this. What would that be?
It’s one thing to sound tough and patriotic. To quickly cut down anyone that may offer a differing opinion but put some meat behind this barking.
Is what’s in front of us now sufficient to declare WWIII?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:29 pmAphrodite seems to be confusing “muslim terrorists” with all Muslims and Arabs in general. A typical right-wing perceptual weakness.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:31 pm#238 America had deposed many heads of states before ww2.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#209 Clinton was enforcing a U.N. resolution against Iraq. Clinton didn’t invade Iraq … .
Redleg,
The same could be said about Bush — that he is merely enforcing a U.N. resolution against Iraq. And how can you say that Clinton didn’t invade Iraq. Does launching countless missiles into a sovereign nation not constitute an invasion? In fact, the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq dropped far more bombs during the sunset of Bill Clinton’s presidency than under President George W. Bush in the run-up to war in Iraq.
Between 1999 and 2001, the U.S. and British-led air forces in Iraq dropped 1.3 million pounds of bombs in response to purported violations of the no-fly zones and anti-aircraft fire from Saddam Hussein.
#224 Let’s all start packing heat. Whenever we identify a problem, just start shooting to trigger some change around us.
That is exactly what many here are advocating on a bglobal scale — give everyone The Bomb and peace will rule supreme.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:33 pmHowever, as the world is now, we as a nation have to decide if we are going to allow the Islamofacist’s ideology to kill us or are we going to confront it.
Stop being such a baby. There is no existential threat to the US. Jesus, how do you dress yourself in the morning with those shaking hands?
You’ve been sold a pack of lies on Iraq, and now you are buying the same bullshit, from the same people. I mean COME ON.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:34 pmThat is exactly what many here are advocating on a bglobal scale — give everyone The Bomb and peace will rule supreme.
Don’t knock what works. No arguing against THAT.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:35 pmInjusticre breeds teerorism ! Israels founders were terrorists (freedom fighters ? ) The US has never really ackowledged our past in the cold war or appologizerd forour behavior in the mid east and most americans have noidea of our history in the region ! The indian was last years terrorist and we brought him civilization ?That was for gold ,this is for oil as the PNAC so apptly and on the public record admitted !
July 19th, 2006 at 4:37 pmTake any Arabic country and look at the murder rates you will find its only 5% of America
Therefore I conclude ” Muslims are better behaved than Christians”
July 19th, 2006 at 4:37 pm240. and your point is????????????????????
July 19th, 2006 at 4:38 pm# 12 and 15
Why do you think regime change in Iran is so important? For that matter why was it so important in Iraq and why is it so important in Syria as well? Regime change mania. Try to chill out and stop watching so much false new on television and take a look at what regime change has done to Iraq. Nothing but death.
The United States has enough problems going on right now with it’s own criminal regime. If it stopped meddling into the affairs of other countries and concentrated on it’s own shortcomings it might not currently be the numero uno pariah on the planet.
There’s a genocide going on right now in Sudan and nobody cares one lick. Most Americans don’t even know. What’s so special about regime change in Iran? Is there mass killings of it’s population going on? NO there isn’t. Oops I know can you say oil?
What bandwagon will you hop onto next? Pathetic.
http://www.genocideintervention.net/educate/darfurinfo/
July 19th, 2006 at 4:39 pm#188 The way you describe the Islamic radicals sounds to me like you’re also describing some of the outspoken conservatives…
I agree with you. Every religion has its share of extremists. Several years ago PBS aired a piece examining extreme Muslims, Jews and Christians. You couldn’t tell them apart. The same holds true for extrem leftists and rightists (rightists? did I just commit a Bushism?)
July 19th, 2006 at 4:39 pmO amnesia-tic goddess of love your people are dying in Lebanon !!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:52 pmfrog catcher #235 your feeling safer today because the mid east is coming apart at the seems? The pajama people are the greatest threat to world peace .
July 19th, 2006 at 4:55 pmZZZZZ’s be with U
I waited and waited and not one warmonger would venture to stand behind the rhetoric and place a number of troops, $ amount or even the rationale to push us into WWIII. This country should be the example of strength and democracy. Of course we have the might to obliterate any country we choose but it’s not the wisest path.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:04 pm#230
July 19th, 2006 at 5:14 pma) how about Irgun and the Stern Gang?
b) “there is no such thing as the palestinian people” – golda meir – I think denying someone’s existence amounts to the same thing
c) yes the PLO were when they became the PA
d) probably – as long as they hold the occupied territories, build illegal settlements, deny civil rights to palestinians and imprision palestinians without trial
here here!
July 19th, 2006 at 5:16 pmIts about time that the world recognizes the fact that 99% of terrorism funding comes out of iran. They are the root of all problems in the mid east and there is a direct link of funds from Iran to Al qaeda.
There needs to be a cancer extracted from this world and that is the govt of Iran.
[...] Now it seems the prodigal son has refound the faith. The Whopper is advocating America “strategically” (;)) bomb Iran. It is, but also the Iranian people dislike their regime. I think they would be – the right use of targeted military force — but especially if political pressure before we use military force – could cause them to reconsider whether they really want to have this regime in power. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 5:22 pmWhat I hear from the neocon war mongers makes me wonder: how many of them would be terrorists if, with their overall jingoistic/religious zealotry intact, they were born as Muslims?
July 19th, 2006 at 5:26 pm#253 prove it blowhard. oh and the Nazis used to refer to things as cancer – gypsies, jews, homos, slavs….been reading your mein kampf again? tosser
July 19th, 2006 at 5:28 pmNever, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:31 pmYup all those Iranians who took over aircraft on 9/11 sure showed us… what (whisper) they weren’t Iranians??? Well who are we supposed to attack now?
Besides if it was Iran all along, then why did we invade Iraq?
July 19th, 2006 at 5:31 pm#243 That is exactly what many here are advocating on a bglobal scale — give everyone The Bomb and peace will rule supreme.
Don’t knock what works. No arguing against THAT.
I recall during the Congressional debate whether to send our trrops into that quagmire called Somalia that one congressman (Tom Delay, perhaps?) argued against the measure. Instead, he proposed that the US arm the mothers of Somalia, arguing that no “rebel” would dare try to come between a starving child and its mother armed with an AK 47. Perhaps it was a crude joke, but maybe the idea did have merit. Today, instead of sending peacekeepers to Sudan, we should arm the entire population.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:39 pmhttp://www.newamericancentury.org/
The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; and that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle.
The Project for the New American Century intends, through issue briefs, research papers, advocacy journalism, conferences, and seminars, to explain what American world leadership entails. It will also strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement and to stimulate useful public debate on foreign and defense policy and America’s role in the world.
PNAC Also stands for: Please, Not Another Clinton
July 19th, 2006 at 5:40 pmPNAC also stands for:
Pushing Neocon Assine Concepts
or
Prehistoric Neanderthals Attacking the Constitution.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:44 pmWell then PNAC rep. What would be your next step towards WWIII. Do we initiate a draft now? Where do the missles launch from? Should an actual Declaration of War be agreed on in Congress or would that just slow things down?
July 19th, 2006 at 5:46 pmShouldn’t he be working on City Slickers III instead of WWIII?
July 19th, 2006 at 5:51 pmPNAC also stands for:
Plagued National Association of Cretins
July 19th, 2006 at 5:57 pmPNAC
Pathetic Nutjobs Acting Childish
July 19th, 2006 at 6:04 pmthe iranians embrace democracy in response to encouragement from the west to do so? why would the do that? the lebanese did, and look what it brought them in a time of national crisis: the west turning its backs on them.
the western world has a LOT of explaining and apologizing to do before it has any right to expect the rest of the world to think it is serious about the ideals of democracy and freedom.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:10 pmPNAC: Perpetually Noxious Apathetic Cephalopods
July 19th, 2006 at 6:14 pmWell, Thanks for asking Justanobserver.
Once Condi recovers from this week’s Ferragamo sample sale and Dick pops his viagra only then will we launch the first missiles from Donnie’s mailbox in St Michaels. But not until they watch the rerun of the season finale of 7th heaven.
Declaration of War? Who needs one if we can spy and tap everybody for more than 15 days anyway? And you know when George George says so…
July 19th, 2006 at 6:16 pm“Its about time that the world recognizes the fact that 99% of terrorism funding comes out of iran.”
Are we supposed to take your word for it or do you have hard evidence this time to back up your War rationale? Oh, let me guess, you heard it from someone else who also supplied no evidence.
I’m not necessarily saying its untrue, but I think, after Iraq at least, that we deserve a little more than assertions before we condemn people to death… you know… the real American way.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:19 pm[...] WTF. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 6:46 pmKind of depressing that even in a liberal blog, we can have 269 posts about US invading Iran (or not) without once mentioning the Shah. What is it about Americans and historical amnesia? Talk the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:47 pm#242
I’ll guarantee you’ll be the first person in line to ask why we didn’t do anything when we had the chance. You’re the type of person who gets up at the last minute pays their bills late, and lives with mommy and daddy. Perhaps we can talk these people to death or perhaps use the strategy of appeasement. Which worked so well with NK. In the words of Winston Churchill- Those who feed the crocodile will simply be eaten last.†Is that your position? You don’t take anything serious. Go back to smoking what it is you smoke, click your heals twice and maybe you’ll come back to earth. And you wonder why your party is weak on defense.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:05 pmTHEY WILL GREET US AS LIBERATORS!!!!!!
IT WILL ALL BE OVER IN SIX DAYS OR SIX WEEKS, I DON’T THINK SIX MONTHS!!11!!!
WE MEAN IT THIS TIME!!!!
FORGET ABOUT IRAQ NO ONE COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT WOULD HAPPEN!!!!
BUT IRAN LOVES US AND THEY ARE WAITING FOR OUR FREEDOM GIVING BOMBS TO START RAINING DOWN ON THEM!!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 7:14 pmI’m curious – what’s the failure rate before they stop letting a pundit back on TV? At what point do they decide “You know what, you’ve proven that you’re just a complete idiot. We’re not booking you anymore. Go find a job at Wendy’s”
You would have thought Bill Kristol passed that point some time ago.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:22 pmPNAC also stands for:
Paramilitary Non-Arabic Chumps
Punishing Nine Arabs Children
or
Peeing Near All Countries
July 19th, 2006 at 7:30 pmYou cannot say that attacking Iran is wrong because Iraq is supposedly a failure.
Iran has been killing Americans in Iraq and fomenting civil war in order to get people like you to THINK that Iraq is a failure.
But the real failure has been in getting Shrub to deal with the remaining problem, which is Iran.
No Iranian hardliner government = no $20B in oil revenues used to fund the civil war in Iraq and the support of the Syrian government and Hezbollah and Hamas.
Take out the base of the house of cards of terrorism.
I assumed Bush cynically wanted to wait until the 2006 elections came into view and get the Democrats to say “we don’t want to save ourselves from Iran’s nuke program”.
But Hillary Clinton isn’t biting that bone. She is at least gung ho about Israel attacking Hizbollah.
I am not voting Republican anyway, so the Republicans may as well start now in getting rid of the Iranian regime. They don’t need to keep it in power any longer so I will be too scared to vote Democrat.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:31 pmAbout all the sarcasm about the flowers: I live in Europe and every Iraqi I meet is pro-American. If you read the right wing blogs, they are clearly not faking all the photos of US servicepeople and their grateful Iraqi friends.
The Sunnis are 20% of Iraqis, but have you heard of the Dawha Accords: Basically the Sunnis now want the Americans to STAY in Iraq to protect them from Shiite death squads and finish off Iran for them.
That is correct: The Sunni Insurgents need the USA to stay in Iraq and finish off Iran or else they will all be killed by Iranian death squads.
This is like in Orwell’s book 1984 where everyone switches sides every six months.
The Germans didn’t exactly throw flowers at American GIs in 1945 but we are doing just fine with the Germans today (Merkel didn’t mind the massage Bush gave her).
The Soviets were our enemy and put up an Iron Curtain for 28 years. Now many of their former citizens want to marry American men.
It is not poverty that makes them want to do that.
Regarding Iran: It is probably close to 80% pro-American there. If an internal revolution is not imminent before nukes are obtained, we should go in behind a kind of Northern Alliance or maybe the actual Northern Alliance, where the ground forces speak Farsi but they have the USAF flying above them.
All these forces may have to do is take the oil fields in the south.
If Iran has been the big destabilizer in Iraq (and now in Lebanon) you cannot say that failure in Iraq and Lebanon means its useless to finish off the very cause of the instability in those two places.
Every month that we leave the Iranian hardliners in power, 3000 people are killed in the civil war that Iran is promoting in Iraq.
And now: As long as the Iranian regime exists…there will be civil war in Lebanon if not war with Israel.
Meanwhile, Lebanon needs a Christian-Druze-Sunni Arab force to fight Hezbollah as in the old Civil War, which I finally realized today did NOT end in a draw but in total defeat for the Christians and Druze and Sunnis.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:46 pm#131: If Spain attacks the US to get regime change in D.C., SIGN ME UP FOR THE SPANISH ARMY.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:52 pmI wonder what all this energy and anger could fuel if it were turned into positive action. ACTION. We are the stupid americans the rest of the world thinks we are. We sit in front of a flat screen spewing words of wisdom… just a substitute for the tube and some chips. Sitting around doing NOTHING while the worst maniac in history sinks our country. We are the IDLE generation. The idol generation.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:55 pm#20; that’s why they are CHICKENHAWKS!!! They don’t have the balls to serve in the army themselves.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:55 pmI am liberal, but more along the lines of Hillary Clinton.
The further left you go from there, people lose a sense of cause and effect.
A US soldier dies in Iraq from what the media itself says is a new IED from Iran…they think “Shrub did that”…while reasonable people say “Why did Iran send that IED into Iraq to kill our soldiers?”
A car bomb goes off using materials sent in from Iran…and the 30 dead Iraqis are somehow on Bush’s hands instead of on the Iranian hardliners who planned the event.
The reasonable person realizes that Iran wants to make war on America and the Sunnis (and Lebanese Christians now being used as human shields in their South Lebanon villages) so it can control the Middle East. Now, you can say as Howard Dean said at the beginning of his campaign in 2004 “We should have originally attacked Iran and not Iraq”…but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Iran is still armed and dangerous and that, yes, there ARE programs of weapons of mass destruction that, this time, really ARE something to worry about and fight against.
Now I can see the point of those who say “Let’s wait them out like we waited out Franco’s Spain and Fascist Portugal.”
And such discussions would be based on reason.
I would point out however that Franco didn’t earn $20B in oil revenues per year with which he wanted to produce nuclear weapons and support organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:55 pm[We are the stupid americans the rest of the world thinks we are.]
You are referring to radical leftists in other countries who don’t think we are stupid because they KNOW they get their talking points from Americans every day.
I live in Europe. Every left wing thought and action is directed from Berkeley. ;-)
But that didn’t stop Germany from electing a pro-Bush chancellor recently. Tony Blair is still in power. Canada just elected a pro-Bush PM.
The “progressives” of the world apparently average 25% of any population, except in poor regions where lack of education has much to do with how they vote.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:59 pm[Sitting around doing NOTHING while the worst maniac in history sinks our country. We are the IDLE generation. The idol generation.]
I assume that you refer to the leader of Iran’s regime: Mr. “All My Jihad”.
He will sink our country right quick if we let him get nukes and pass them to free roaming terrorists.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:03 pm#282-Jack,
If I read your posting correctly, then I see support for another pre-emptive military action. I’m curious, what have you learned from the last employment of that strategy? And then, I would request that you provide me with a specific number as to how many dead (murdered) innocent people are acceptible, in your eyes, in such “mistakes”?
I await your considered response.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:04 pm#282 Jack; in case you were NOT paying attention, if Bush did not invade & occupy Iraq, our soldiers would not coming home in body bags and wheelchairs. So it IS shrub’s fault, not Tehran’s. The neo-nazi’s in the White House lied us into this phoney-baloney war and quagmire.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:07 pmIf at first you don’t succeed, fail and then fail again.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:28 pmI am liberal…
Comment by Jack Donaldson — July 19, 2006 @ 7:55 pm
no you’re not…
July 19th, 2006 at 9:06 pmAll of you over there are in deep, deep trouble.
Living in Germany, I spent the majority of my history lessons in school dissecting Nazi Germany. Now, having seen many hours of Nazi footage, this tops it all. It is the most disgusting piece of war propaganda I have ever seen. Gleichschaltung at its best (look it up and be amazed). Why don’t you people in the U.S. realize that you are constantly being lied to?
Thanks to the neo-imperialistic U.S. foreign policy, you’re gonna end up with only one friend in the world, the Israeli government. The rest of your so-called friends or allies will only pretend to respect you, giving you a fake smile because you have big, fat check books. Well, the elites in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Tajikistan will still love you, though.
You brag about your freedom and liberty, but in fact you live in a police state, you are being governed by a corrupt clique of elitist, greedy warmongers who give a shit about you, about other cultures and about human life. The freedoms you have consist of digesting all that crap that is being fed to you by giant media conglomerates. The only form of resistance you bring about is a visit to the movies to see a Michael Moore piece, some sensationalistic and oversimplified sludge to stimulate your indifferent attitude, to induce the instant feeling of rage for 2 hours.
Instead of sitting there eating popcorn, why don’t you go have a look and see what white phosphorus does to a human face?
July 19th, 2006 at 9:15 pmDispicable filthy Jew. Hitler was SO RIGHT!!!
July 19th, 2006 at 9:37 pm#9 Kristol was given air time on The Colbert Report a few weeks ago. IIRC, Steven suggested that we nuke Iran and called Kristol soft on defense for not agreeing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUOw9h0voE
July 19th, 2006 at 9:37 pmbut that doesn’t take away from the fact that Iran is still armed and dangerous and that, yes, there ARE programs of weapons of mass destruction that, this time, really ARE something to worry about and fight against.
Nonsense. They deny it, citing the Koran as prohibiting it. They of course may be the same class of religious hypocrite that Bush and Co. are, but until actual evidence comes up I’ll be giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Only a lunatic or a rabid fascist would risk killing millions where no evidence exists. By God, America has become a sick and deranged society.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:43 pmHe will sink our country right quick if we let him get nukes and pass them to free roaming terrorists.
Oh Come on!! The muslims are coming the muslims are coming!!! Mommy!!! Have you any idea how pathetic and hysterical you sound?
Neocon is literally synonomous for coward and bully. Commit acts of gross collective punishment as a “lesson” in case anyone might think about resistance. That kind of thinking always breeds exactly the sort of persistent terrorism you claim to want to avoid.
How has that policy worked for Israel in the last 50 years? You’d really like to explore that route on a global scale?
July 19th, 2006 at 9:49 pmJohn Smith, it was red-neck bigots like yourself who put these clowns in office.
The “filthy Jews” in the U.S. voted overwhelmingly in both 2000 and 2004 against the criminal cabal that got us into this mess. Let’s face it, members of the Bush adminstration are more likely to wear whale-print pants while fly-fishing than to eat gefilte fish.
Kristol loves to talk tough but I guarrantee that if you crept up behind him and yelled “boo!” he’d wet his pants and call his mother.
Throw
July 19th, 2006 at 9:51 pmIf I may oblige, Sir Churchill after you said:
“I wonder what all this energy and anger could fuel if it were turned into positive action. ACTION. We are the stupid americans the rest of the world thinks we are. We sit in front of a flat screen spewing words of wisdom… just a substitute for the tube and some chips. Sitting around doing NOTHING while the worst maniac in history sinks our country. We are the IDLE generation. The idol generation.”
I can clearly see through your metaphor about using the “fueled anger” from the conflicts in this World today into a more positive action oriented kind of generation. An Ideology most of us can only “dream” about but the Divided States ridicule it by saying it aids the very terrorists they aid with their gargantuan GOP lobbying. Therefore paralyzing all of us and the mass media into complacent “counting sheep” kind of people.
There is much truth in your assessment of this Fox 5 Idol generation but it can be easily criticized by the flat screen/computer screen generation and those who also believe, as I do, such colossal chaos created over the past 6 years (if not counting the previous Bush terms) can be “stabilized” so swiftly by “doing something”. We all are doing something in so many ways… tonight by simply venting about it… It sure helps get me out of bed in the morning. This is a very depressive time, an uncertain time. I think we should all do the best we can and keep believing justice will prevail. The worst maniacs in the world sinking our country share a house in Washington and vacation in St-Michaels… that is pretty clear to anyone who still have a soul.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:55 pmRussia, 1916. A priest and a Bolshevik are arguing. “Your religion is dying!”, says the Bolshevik. “Everywhere you look, the churches are full of old ladies. Soon the old ladies will be dead, and your pews will be empty!”
“That’s where you’re wrong”, says the Priest. “There are always more old ladies”.
For Israel, no matter how many rockets they destroy, there will always be more rockets.
If what you are doing doesn’t work, stop it.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:59 pmI read these comments about how we should attack Iran and can only think madness and insanity has taken hold. Is is because we haven’t been bombed and had landmines planted in our fields that people have no empathy for those poor civilians in the middle east? Can’t any of of you people who are so eager to send in bombers to kill more people put yourselves in their place? Where do terrorists come from ? Well I , for one, would not be surprised to find the brothers that came home to find their sister raped and murdered and their parents and baby sister murdered by American troops might become anti American.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:59 pmWhy would anyone think that attacking Iran would turn the people against their government>? Has it EVER happened before ? Did 9/11 make the American people turn against their government. Stop thinking that the rest of the world is so ‘different’ from us. They want peace, they love there families , they want jobs and stability . Just like you do. And they don’t want to be killed…..just like you and I.
Gleichschalter, I agree with many of your observations, but you’d be surprised at the number of Americans who also agree with you. In fact the vast majority of Americans never voted for George Bush at all.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:00 pmIran might be a lot less hostile to the US had the CIA not murdered its democratically elected president, Mossadegh, back in 1953. The US “leadership”could really use some long-range thinkers instead of the kleptocrats we’ve been stuck with since 1871.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:00 pmJake,
That was extremely funny, colorful and so true!!
July 19th, 2006 at 10:07 pmFlying Pigs!!!! No, really.
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2006/03/careful-sanity-may-be-catching.html
July 19th, 2006 at 10:08 pm#294, Jake:
Let’s face it, members of the Bush adminstration are more likely to wear whale-print pants while fly-fishing than to eat gefilte fish.
Kristol loves to talk tough but I guarrantee that if you crept up behind him and yelled “boo!†he’d wet his pants and call his mother.
THAT’s what I meant was hysterical!
July 19th, 2006 at 10:13 pmFor the real news on the Israeli – US – Syria – Iran situation be sure to go to the web sites http://www.whatreallyhappened.com and http://www.rense.com. These two sites contain some very good balanced stories from both perspectives.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:19 pmYeah, they’ll throw flowers and kisses at us. They’re just yearning for us to liberate them….
July 19th, 2006 at 10:34 pmEveryone line up behin the Republicans and Bush while we bring more Democracy to the middle east!
You first…
July 19th, 2006 at 10:42 pmPut a bag on my head, I can’t believe I’m agreeing with a Republican. I must be losing it or something, I totally agree with Bill Krystal on something. Please put me out of my misery. It’s about time someone on the right woke up a realized that talking to Iran doesn’t do any good.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:52 pmBill, NO
July 19th, 2006 at 10:54 pmYou have no credibility when it comes to matters of national security anymore.
Besides, didn’t you just close down PNAC?
You fooled us once and we con’t get fooled again.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
How can these people even think of replaying the same old tripe?
Worse, why do they think it’ll work?
Worst, it quite possibly *will* work!
Arrrgh!@stupud people.
=my2c
July 19th, 2006 at 11:25 pm#289 – our German friend is 100% on the money – there are not enough barricades and Molotov cocktails being thrown.
The great irony being that the rise of fascism and Nazism is often attributed to this tendency. And here we are on the cusp of a major war with the Israelis on the side of American fascism. It beggars belief.
July 19th, 2006 at 11:29 pm#298 Jake, if that is the case, then why aren’t there more people on the streets, mobilizing their neighbours to put an end to this lunacy?
We regard public demonstrations as a major driving force for German re-unification in 1990 (other forces including Bush 41 helping Gorbachev to deconstruct the Soviet empire). The movement grew from a small gathering of 5.000 people to 320.000 people (roughly 2% of the whole population) over the course of six weeks, demonstrations took place regularly, spread to other cities, and soon it was top news every day. Those men and women were shouting “We are the people”.
Now, despite all that opposition towards U.S. middle east policy, all I’ve seen is a single wimpy gathering of slackers in Washington D.C..
I am talking mass protest here, millions of people in major cities, over several weeks. This is what democracy is about. It is about participation. You do remember what can be achieved through mass protest in Washington D.C., right? Do you wanna sit and watch?
Here is my take on the situation:
A small group of people is in the process of profoundly reshaping the middle east, leaving it in a violent mess for decades to come. I am convinced that they have plans for reshaping Lebanon and Syria, they will establish a Kurdish puppet state and they will have Turkey entering the EU.
Iran is not a threat to Israel, that’s just populism. Ahmadinejad tries to establish himself as the new leader of the Arab world, *that* is what worries the U.S.. They surely don’t want the Mullahs to exert influence on the Shi’ites in the hotchpotch that is Iraq, and Iran could jeopardize U.S. interests between the Caspian Sea and the Black Sea.
Yet, an invasion in Iran will not happen under China’s and Russia’s watch. What the U.S. would like to do is isolate Iran, oppose harsh sanctions, then wait for 5 years and instigate a public uprise against the mullahs. This time, they’d make sure they would never lose the country again like in 1979. They know that at the current time, an attack on Iran would only come in handy for the mullahs.
July 19th, 2006 at 11:34 pmYou want to know why we’re not protesting? I’ll tell you why we’re not protesting; because we just don’t care. It’s not our ox being gored; 400 Lebanese, 2500 USA servicemen, 50,000 Iraqis, 140,000 Hiroshima victiums…We just. Don’t. Care.
Ironically enough, I believe it’s because most Americans have forgotten what it means to truly suffer, so we have almost no empathy; the most privileged among us are always the cruelest.
The revolution will not be televised, because while there’s television, there will be no revolution. Really, we’d love to save the world, but “Friends” is on…
July 20th, 2006 at 12:10 amYou libs are something else over here on the propaganda website. You are all “unhinged.†By that I mean; it’s the word that covey’s the LEFT, generally speaking, it emphasizes that the LEFT has long since come unglued, giving itself over to irrationality and extremism rather than reasoned discourse. Is this where you all come to hold hands?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:11 amWell, I am waiting!
July 20th, 2006 at 12:13 amOne last thing regarding Iran being a threat to Israel. They just would never risk a severe attack on Israel, be it direct or proxied through Hezbollah.
Hezbollah, on the other hand, *is* a threat to Israel’s security. Well, those old-school steel pipes lacking guidance systems are hardly more than the flying equivalent of a suicide bomber. Hezbollah faces 400 seriously pimped F-16 fighter jets and top notch artillery operating on auto-fire.
The real threat is Hezbollah being a major political force in Lebanon, and Israel does not want them to become what Hamas became in the West Bank and Gaza (a major pain in the ass). So the message of non-tolerance is clearly targeted at Lebanese civilians, which is why the Israelis make them suffer.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:18 amIs this where you all come to hold hands?
Comment by Frogcatcher
Yes. You seem to know something of irrationality and extremism, won’t you join us?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:20 amDon’t feed the animals, Zooey. In Frogcatcher’s screwed up mind, killing hundreds of civilians because a handful of soldiers are kidnapped is completely fair & rational, and doesn’t invite retaliation at all.
Of course, the reality that there’s NO WAY Israel hasn’t been planning this for months never dawns on him. The reality that we’ve been ITCHING for an excuse to blame something major on Iran or Syria…never dawns on him. The reality that the only reason we’re IN this desert hellhole is oil for our ridiculous ‘Hummers & SUVs…never dawns on him.
Ignorance is indeed bliss.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:28 amSorry, Randall, I find it hard to resist the truly insane whackjobs. I’ve only fallen off the wagon twice in two days…
Realizing Israel’s plan would take a few moments of actual thought, so naturally it wouldn’t dawn on him. Peace…
July 20th, 2006 at 12:35 amNow is the time that we must bring back the draft. The starting list for the draft will be all of the subscribers of the Weekly Standard. All of them. Lets see if getting shot at will cool their war mongering.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:48 am#313 Randall, I know, U.S. citizens seem to have nothing to worry about, but this confidence is highly deceiving, if you ask me.
As far as I know, the U.S. government is laying practically unlimited power in the hand of the executive since 9/11, which will eventually be misused. If executive power is used against the people, privacy is always one of the first thing that suffers, and measures to breach it are disguised as a precaution to heighten security.
Now, your government employs ~40,000 people to do privacy related stuff (foreign and domestically) that they do not want you to know about. Tax payers shell out some $6bn or so every year to fund these activities. I do not know how much of that is being used for sneaking into your life, but establishing a totalitarian regime and a system of control is nowadays almost exclusively a matter of technology and having the ability to handle large volumes of data. Since this is the information age, you *are* your data, so beware.
You really don’t want to see the day when your television starts watching *you*, but this will be the day when this giant effort that is the war on terror finally arrives on your doorstep.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:03 amIsreal has the right to defends itself, but NOT ESCALATE IT! I think escalating the war is what the neo-cons want. I hate to think it but our country (usa) maybe heading down the same path the Nazi’s took.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:24 amBlah, our government’s been watching & glowering at “Hippy peaceniks” for 50 years. It’s nothing we’re not accustomed to, believe it or not. It’s part of what makes it all the more laughable when lawmakers flip-out about the leaks about wireless wiretapping & the like. Who *doesn’t* know they might be watched & monitored?
My argument boils down to “You know, *as a rule*, most people dont’ take kindly to being bombed, let alone cheer on their attacker…and it’s probably counter-productive in the long run.” It’s pretty hard to argue with.
It’s cool, I’m German-American. We only use kidnapping and torture on middle-easterners & muslims, you know.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:31 amDear sir and wole US governemnt Please do not support Iranian regime in backstage, we do not need your help to cick them out, thanks for the 1979 revolution that you helped to happen and put these idiot CIA agents on iranian governemnt!!!!! You’ve already made 2 big favors to iranian people, first with Coup against Mosadegh and secound with 1979 artificial revolution made gainst growing Soviet Union effect in region!!
July 20th, 2006 at 1:44 amWe can very well see what a great life and democracy peaople have in Iraq!
Man we are Idiot but not that much!!!!!!!
For your imformation im not a fantic muslem, im cristian and im not even originally iranian!!!! Im simpplu an unlucky iranian Citizen who has to pay back for your friend government!!
#322
You’re right about Israel having a right to defend itself. They pulled out of Lebanon in 2000 and they pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and still missiles continue to fly. What if the UN, and/or the “talking heads society†would’ve enforced the resolutions they agreed upon in 2000. Do you think things would be different today?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:52 amThank you Anna! I love you! Marry me!
July 20th, 2006 at 1:57 am[...] I just saw this post on Think Progress that highlights more pronouncements from Weekly Standard honcho, Fox News hired blowhard and PNAC nincompoop Bill Kristol concerning how the people of Iran will greet us when we bomb the shit out of their country hoping to hit something important in the process. [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 3:22 amPeace? Not A Chance.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:50 amPalestine? Nuke Arab Children.
Presidents Need Assinine Character.
Plutocratically Nurturing American Conservatives.
Plebs, Not Aristocrats’ Children.
Parasites Needing A Crisis.
etc, etc…
Ah! yes, very much on que. This Messiah of American TV & Media has prophetically proclaimed the same lines before like a “stuck-broken record”.
July 20th, 2006 at 6:56 amKristol hopes that his so-called supporters, neocons,the perverts who took this great country and its “Coalition of the willing!” would work again.
Assemble the coalition Mr. Kristol. See who stands up to save the great USA tyrannical state from the threats from Iran.
Let us once again have the last laugh to prove YOU Mr. Kristol so wrong that you, in a bout of abject conscience and shame take the high jump and disappear somewhere under neath the anchor desk at Fox.
You are so depraved and uncultured in world history. You have displayed once more your apparent lack of any decency whatsover.
Noah – the fellow who came to save!
Okay, probaly nothing could be more pointless than posting comment #330 or whatever it’s got to by the time I hit “submit.” Nevertheless…
“But the war itself will clarify who was right and who was wrong about weapons of mass destruction.”
But “everyone thought there were WMD.” Isn’t that the line now? Everyone thought they were there. No one didn’t think so. Or something. So who were these “wrong” guys Kristol is talking about? And has he apologized to them yet?
July 20th, 2006 at 7:21 amSomeone should direct those people to perfect soldiers a reporter’s take on the 9/11 hijackers–basically the history of the people and their links, but the picture that emergers gives some depth to the passion of the Islamic Fundamentalists–and how it is a true worldview, and regime change–or bombs–will not change their mind. I keep thinking about Islamic women, and their helplessness….
July 20th, 2006 at 7:25 am[...] (via Think Progress) [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 8:00 amHaven’t read all 300+ comments, but after listening to years of squawk radio, and minutes of FOX tv, I am convinced that Mr. Kristol’s views, and other right wingnuts are seen and heard because they sell advertising on the networks. 30 or so percent of the population that support Bush is a large enough viewing or listening audience to allow for the outlandish viewpoints we see and hear.
It’s a bit like horror movies. They are horrific but enough people are compelled to watch to make them highly marketable. I think that fear is addictive and the neocons etc are feeding on the fear.
I recommend checking out callingallwingnuts for some refreshing counterbanter.
July 20th, 2006 at 8:22 amIsrael is a sideshow. Bill Kristol spells out the true agenda.
July 20th, 2006 at 8:41 amWhile Israel aggressively attacks her neighbors, the US erodes rights at home by detaining peaceful demonstrators, stealing private lands, pressuring book outlets to drop the book “America Deceived” by E.A. Blayre III and wire-tapping all phones without a warrant.
Next, the US will attack Iran and throw the entire Middle East into chaos.
Add in a false-flag attack in the US (another 9/11) and people will beg for the safety of One World Gov’t.
That is the goal of PNAC and their talking head Bill Kristol.
Final link (before PNAC pressures Google Books to drop the book):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
[...] Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 8:44 amTo #8:
July 20th, 2006 at 9:36 amDemocratic party informing Americans about PNAC?
PNAC IS the Democratic Party!
Israel has the right to defend itself ? BEFORE a Palestinian attack on an army outpost that took the lives of 2 israeli soldiers and the abduction of another ,which was the pretext for the re invasion of Gaza and the attacks and subsequent invasion of a sovereign nation (Lebanon ),Israel had shelled gaza and killed 30 paletinians .The day before the invasion by Israel,Israeli commando’s had entered Gaza for the first time since last Augusts pullout by Israel ,and taken 2 Palestinians hostage it claimed were members of Hamas .Israel began this conflict !
July 20th, 2006 at 9:53 amWhy are people so afraid of Iran with nukes, isn’t Mutally Assured Destruction still part of our military policy regarding nuclear threats?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:49 am[...] Bill Kristol argued on Fox News that the people of Iran would welcome “the right use of targeted military force.†He added that military force could “trigger changes in Iran,†causing them to embrace regime change. Faiz at American Progress linked the video. By JDZ Feedbacks on this entry via RSS 2.0 Please leave a Comment or discuss via Trackback! Comments Please Leave a Comment! [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 11:51 am[...] I have to not rever read crooksandliars.com, it angries up the blood too much. But on the plus side, my brain-fuzzing sleepiness of this morning is gone now. On the minus side, the toxic rage going through my head is at dangerously low pH levels, so it’s a tradeoff. Think Progress » Kristol Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 11:52 amLike Reagan use to say to tliberals “Here they go again” Have this people not learn anything with IRAQ. GOD BLESS US.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:26 pmWhy do we have to attack Iran? What ever happened to the good old cold war days when we just gave money to rebels with out doing the fighting ourselfs?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:13 pmIt’s all about oil. Nothing else is relevant.
Unfortunately, we are fighting three wars.
1) the war of “Regime change”, or the lie given to support this adventure.
2) Armageddon, or the fantasy of hard-core religious fundamentalism from Bush the Messiah and his followers (Dobson, Falwell, et al); the Islamic nutjobs holding out for a harem of virgins; and the “Chosen” children of God- the Orthodox Jews that demand that all of Judea be restored as Israel.
3) The Oil and Gas war. This is where multi-billionaires send their proxy armies to fight and die so that they can enrich themselves from the crude they extract.
Kristol is part of the multi-billiionaires club. (even though he’s probably only worth a few dozen million). He’ll talk regime change as if he really gives a dang about actual democracy (of which he is loathe to accept). Democracy is a catchall word that is used to disarm intellectual thought in its tracks. Of course Democracy is good, the Greeks invented it. We perfected it (Diebold).
Kristol is a professional liar. He could care less about Iranians enjoying a cold soda, and voting for a moderate. Iranians actually do vote and enjoy the democratic principles, including a parliament. But that’s too complex for Kristol to discuss, so we need to change the dialog from democracy to WMD. (We you know you are scared, we are here to protect you. Just put $200 in the envelope and our man will be by in the morning to collect it.)
July 20th, 2006 at 1:22 pmKrazy Kristol…
According to Think Progress, which has the video, neocon extraordinaire Bill Kristol (whom in the past I’ve generally respected, if rarely agreed with) asserted on Fox News yesterday that ……
July 20th, 2006 at 1:30 pmwhy is this a surprise to anyone? Kristol, co-founder of PNAC has been pushing this since the mid-90’s, and because no one mentions that he’s the co-founder of PNAC and discusses their very public plan and discredits it as idealistic crap, he’s free to spew the same garbage in regards to Iran as he did for Iraq…
So when is some one going to expose him and his organization for what it is? Hmmmm?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:33 pmYou know, It just tells you how ignorant people are about the history and culture of other countries. No wonder Iraq is a disaster. Any invasion of Iran is going to cause incredible nationalism. Already, the rhetoric out of washington has alligned the people behind Ahmadinejad. Used to be Iranians were trying to reform the mullah’s, now they are worried about the external threat of invasion and are backing the mullahs. The US meddled in Iran’s affairs in the 1950’s brought the shah back to power and created a waive of anti americanism that has lasted to this day. The US bomb Iran? I can’t think of something that would set Iran more back in years and empower the hardliners. I bet you Ahmadinejad would love it and are hoping for some attack. It would extend their decaying grip on power for another 20 years.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:08 pmWhat the hell goes on in the heads of Yanks? I’m not just referring to Kristol, but the whole newsroom operation that thought it was a good idea to put up a caption that says “Is it time to take out X government?” Do you know what you sound like from the outside? Where do you get off deciding it’s “time” to take out someone else’s government, just like this was something you had a perfect right to do?
History doesn’t stop moving, and the time may come, maybe even when you and I are still alive to see it, when some great foreign power comes along to bomb and invade the USA, just because it feels like it. When that happens, don’t you dare complain.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:41 pmThe “Church of the Big 180″ strikes again, as Cardinal William Kristol worships Mammon by proclaiming the exact opposite of what is true.
I tell ya, with these people, lying isn’t enough. You gotta get style points for complete 180 reversals, right in the face of the nearest reporter. It’s like the “money shot” in a porn movie…they prove their sexual potency by spurting all over your face and chest.
Lick it up, America. You like it that way, don’t you, bitch?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:43 pmI’m sure Kristol’s right; most Iranians would love to have the U.S. bomb their country. After all, they were thrilled when the CIA orchestrated the coup in 1953 that overthrew the president they had elected and replaced him with the Shah, who ran a brutal dictatorship for 26 years. If we do bomb Iran, what will really endear us to Iranians is the handful of bombs and cruise missiles that miss their targets (there are always some) and kill innocent women and children. Yes, let’s increase the good will for us that’s already so prevalent in Iran, indeed throughout the Middle East, by bombing Iran right now!
July 20th, 2006 at 3:50 pmThe reality is that Bush is nothing more than an useful idiot. The folks that are really calling the shots are the PNAC gang (Google “Policy for a New American Century” for more info). Talking about war is BushCo throwing some red-meat to their voting base: radical ultra-conservative christians (aka: American Taliban).
The reason these folks are the NeoCon voting base is that they are programmed to do what they’re told (by their MegaChurches) without any critical thought or questions. They respond very well to authoritarian figures and want to be led absolutely. To them, it’s much easier to be told what to do, think, etc. than to have to deal with the uncertainty of life.
If you notice, most of what the NeoCons & their voting base feed upon is what I call “manufactured outrage”. They are repeatedly fed by the corporate media (which on a side note, is why media consolidation & network neutrality issues are very important) the various “talking points” (ie: gay marriage, flag burning, stem-cell research) to get them wound up against the “liberals” (which at this point, is anyone who disagrees with the current Administration). This is all part of the grand FUD (fear, uncertainty & doubt) strategy.
Extremely vocal 28% ultra-conservative “American Taliban” are being manipulated to beat down any opposition of “Pax Americana”. The uncertain future of readibly available light sweet-crude petroleum (Google “peak oil”) is the reason why the US is much more aggressive towards Middle Eastern countries than North Korea & certain African countries who are as much of a “threat to democracy”. So that leaves the PNAC crowd to attempt (or already have) a coup d’etat. Basically, as things go to hell, they still want to have enough power/control to be comfortable while eveyone else languishes. We will know for sure this November…
If despite polling (especially exit polls) to the contrary, the NeoCons continue to hold Congress then odds are that voting procedures (in particular electronic voting) are/have been compromised and no matter how we vote, it doesn’t/won’t matter; we’ll just be the “sheeple” to the PNAC gang and the elimination of the middle class will continue.
To get an understanding of where we’re headed, I recommend George Orwell’s “1984″.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:52 pmre: #137
July 20th, 2006 at 4:16 pmEvil Spaniard, thanks for the belly laugh, that was truly a bit of inspired japery. : )
“They got cocky.” THEY got cocky?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pmGleichschalter: quite right. Most of the American public despises this president. Unfortunately, it’s a bizarre dynamic. Bush won 2004 because we were still at war and people were scared about showing ‘weakness’. So the Dems have only 49% of the representation and are scared of dissenting, which translates into 0% influence. This is not an excuse, most of us are just cowed fools. As with any democracy, 100% of the population gets what 51% of it deserves.
derek: It’s the ‘Fox News’ effect, the American Al Jazeera, only more radical and doesn’t actually practice journalism. One of their captions once read “Civil War in Iraq: can it be a good thing?” News is a commodity in the US now, so the biggest, loudest, most obnoxious moron (in this case Fox) wins. They see the process of journalism as like a kid throwing a softball at a beeehive. No thought is given to consequences when arrogance and war hyping gets ratings and market share.
I find myself recommending this James Fallows article a LOT these days:
“Will Iran be Next?”
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200412/fallows
I pity Kristol in that he isn’t aware he’s already politically extinct. But if provoking internal regime change is such a crafty idea, Kristol should recommend reinstating the draft. Boy, will HIS regime fall fast.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:15 pmIn the early fifties the USA ( CIA) orchestrated a regime change in Iran. Most Iranians did not dance in the streets, That regime change led to the Shah. The Shah led to Khomeni . Khmeni led to the present regime in Iran. Maybe regime change is not a good idea. Iraq will be a duplication . Just wait. The problem is USA foreign policy in the mid-east, which is no different than British foreign
July 20th, 2006 at 7:07 pmpolicy before WW2. Sometime I wonder if these NECON’s can read .
[...] Please STFU, okay? [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 9:31 pm[...] Who can’t handle the truth? When we’re all done we may be done. For good. [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 9:57 pm[...] Während die Christen also ihre eigenen Fans des Dritten Weltkrieges auffahren, will das Project For The New American Century nicht ins Hintertreffen geraten wenn es um den totalen Krieg geht. PNAC-Gründer William Kristol stimmt mit James Woolsey und Dan Gillerman mit ein und bereitet Amerika auf einen Militärschlag gegen den Iran vor: Bill Kristol: “We are in a way lucky that Iran has revealed its aggression, its recklessness, its terror ties before they succeeded in becoming a nuclear power. We have to stop them from getting nuclear weapons. We can try diplomacy. I am not hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.” [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 10:12 pm[...] The usual suspects are out in full force. Bill Kristol is foaming at the mouth with talk of war with Iran. All fingers are pointing at Iran as the real problem. The White House has given Israel time to "defang" Hezbollah and is oddly silent as the humanitarian crisis in Lebanon grows. Mr. Bush’s chief Anti-Diplomat at the United Nations brushed aside Kofi Annan’s call for a cease-fire with the standard mantra: [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 10:51 pmWe a Gangsta’ Nation, baby!!
Da’ USA is BAAAAAD!!!
Blam! Blam! Blam!
July 21st, 2006 at 1:08 amWhen idiots become rich and powerful, they become absolutely sure that the stinking products of their “thinking” is a blessing for all the rest of us.
Who is this Bill Kristol ? Has he a history of making a judgement, or a prognosis that came out to be true? Of demonstrating a deep understanding of some issue? Why should anybody listen to him?
July 21st, 2006 at 4:48 amWhy is this clown still given a microphone. He’s right, history and reality have shown the truth and Bill Kristol is a stupid clown.
July 21st, 2006 at 5:54 amThe Project for the New American Century is an organization devoted to promoting American policies which the U.S. wouldn’t tolerate other countries having. A neo-con is somebody who hates foreigners who think like him. The biggest threat to a neo-conservative from one nation is a conservative from another.
July 21st, 2006 at 8:13 amYou want to end Islamofacism? It’s not that off the top of my head I havea better idea than bombing Iran- it’s just that I can’t for the life of me think of an idea which is worse.
Any speculation of what would happen in Iran if the U.S. attacked it? Seriously, apart from making the neocons feel tough by using the same melodramatic language the promoters of terrorism use, tell me why it’s a good plan. How will a country of steaming mad Iranians end terrorism?
Neoconservatism- hypocritical AND no realistic concept of the word “consequence”.
If you watched ’til the end of the program, Bill’s face slowly morphed into that of Ahmed Chalabi, it was pretty neat.
Tune in next week, when Bill will tell the audience why they would have been smart to buy ENRON stock.
July 21st, 2006 at 9:05 amThis is typical of the neo cons who are taking America down with them in their misbegotten idea of backing Israel no matter what. This is the advice of a mad man who has nothing to loose by suggesting nonsense. does he not know what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan? has he seen the pictures of the horror that Israel has unleashed on beirut, and the use of napalm is very much suspected. I think he should be brought in front of all the american mothers who have lost their sons and see what a reception he gets, he should be the first to be sent to beirut, why is he sitting at home comfortable he should start by covering the war in beirut and see how balanced he can be.
July 21st, 2006 at 9:51 amEven the most doctrinaire Bush fan must face the fact that this administration has utterly failed to convert the sympathy generated by 9/11 to the US’s advantage.
As it happens, Bush’s use of the word “crusade” was emblematic of what was to come.
July 21st, 2006 at 10:02 amJust a reminder of fanatical Islam:
Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage. Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage. Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage. A Muslim attacks a missionary children’s school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage. Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage. Let’s go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage. Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage. Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage. Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage. Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage. Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.
Do really think these people are for peace. Where is the outrage from the liberal left? The left would rather blame GWB.
July 21st, 2006 at 11:43 amThe supporters of an attack in Iran disingenuously suggest that doing so would solve, once and for all, the problem of Iran’s wanting to have a nuclear weapon. In fact, do we know where all their nuclear facilities are? Are we naive enough to think they haven’t taken steps to ensure their nuclear program can survive a U.S. bombing campaign?
Drop a few bombs and Iran isn’t dangerous anymore. How stupid can you get?
July 21st, 2006 at 11:58 am#368
The best solution to this problem is for the people of IRAN to overthrow its crazed leadership. I agree with your logic about bombing, it would be a crap shoot. We might be able to turn back the clock for a short time, but it would only motivate them to become even more determined to get nukes. I am a conservative and I am not sure what the answer is regarding this issue, but I do know the longer we wait the more dangerous the world becomes. So, I am asking my fellow Americans left/right what are the solutions other than the one I mentioned.
July 21st, 2006 at 1:34 pmThis guy continues to amaze me every time he opens his mouth. I don’t know what the hell is in his mind. It really have to be some sort of mental problem that couses him to LOVE WAR so much.
July 21st, 2006 at 1:42 pm#367 – Oh, do shut up and go away.
July 21st, 2006 at 2:00 pm“liberalism is a mental disorder” As long as this site is free I am going to be here confronting the left. So, put down the bong and lets dance!
July 21st, 2006 at 2:07 pmYou want war? Iran is peanuts. I say, go for China and do it soon. Hit China and a whole bunch of problems go away. The North Korea problem goes away. The Taiwan problem goes away. The Iran problem goes away. The oil problem goes away. Etc. Hit them now, hit them hard and be unmerciful, withhold nothing. Push them back to a pre-Mao state. Oh, sure, we’ll probably get a few cities nuked but it will be worth it. Wipe out China and even the Russians won’t mess with us. We just have to do it soon. We’ll rule the world just like we are destined to. [PS: Go to http://www.m-w.com and look up the word "sarcasm"]
July 21st, 2006 at 2:21 pmThe only way to stop the blood shed is if America removes all of its military and secret services out of every country in the world starting immediately. Our political leaders, military and secret services are the problem and must be dealt with accordingly.
July 21st, 2006 at 2:52 pmOur Leaders ARE the problem! Can you say tar and feathers????
July 21st, 2006 at 3:19 pmPerhaps we can send a face painted Bill Kristol alone armed with his idealism, a wifi connection and a pocketknife.
I wonder how far he’d get?
July 21st, 2006 at 3:24 pmAmazing the amount of Anti-American hatred out there.
I’ve read America ranks as the favorite destination for immigrants around the world. Must be a terrible place : )
A poll I read recently had a majority of the residents of just about every EU country wanted to live somewhere else. In the US only 25% (mostly liberals i guess) wanted to live in another country.
As N Kristoff (liberal NYTimes) wrote last year.. Iran is a red-state – most of its people actually love all things American. Unlike the false pro-American sentiments in EU, Iranians actually lite a million candles post-9/11.
It is the Iranian mullahs and appointees who are messianic – that means they have a real death-wish.
They are clever and will let Hizbollah deliver their nuke to Haifa… Al Qieda will deliver another to New York in an uninspected Container ship box.
Of course, Liberals will than demand Bush IIIs impeachment, insist on limited proportional response or maybe another round of UN or EU diplomacy !
Sad really.
July 21st, 2006 at 3:39 pm“Al Qieda will deliver another to New York in an uninspected Container ship box.”
Yeah, so why do BUSH and the REPUBLICANS keep blocking and preventing DEMOCRATIC plans for better port security?
People love America — anti-American sentiment is really anti-REPUBLICAN PARTY sentiment, for the most part. Unfortunately, the Republican Party currently controls the federal government lock, stock and barrel.
July 21st, 2006 at 5:02 pmNow is not the time to critcize our great leader, President George W. Bush. He, and his team of trusty advisors have all sorts of plans on the books to deal with any eventuality. Rumsfeld is a very, very high ranking intellectual and Cheney is a very tough man.
Rice is on top of everything and speaks many, many languages along wtih being a spectacular pianist.
The time to attack Iran is now. Once we get this done and over with, our children will be able to rest in peace.
Good luck!
July 21st, 2006 at 7:14 pmDisingenuous to list so many acts of terrorism, blithely say “no Muslim outrage”, and conclude that Muslims are terrorists. The logic is faulty. Plenty of crimes have been committed by people of all nationalities and creeds worldwide. (I wonder if Timothy McVeigh was a believer?) Our own federal government has embarked on programs of sterilizing immigrant and Native American females. Where’s the white outrage? We’re all supremacists.
There is no simple solution to problems which have been centuries or even millennia in the making. That’s the first fallacy of the neocon vision: that there can be a simple and quick approach to national, ethnic and religious hatreds as exist in the Middle East. Wanting to roll in with overwhelming force and arrange things as you like is a bad enough strategy, only the administration made it worse by omitting the bit about overwhelming force. Now the army in Iraq is on the defensive everywhere, and the local hatreds are more obvious than ever. Repeating those mistakes will not improve things. The biggest difference I see between the Middle East now and eastern Europe before World War I is that the major military powers aren’t treatied patrons of the smaller states in the area, bound to start fighting as well. (And we know that World War I certainly solved eastern Europe’s problems.)
I have nothing against conservatives–after all, our society as it is isn’t all bad, and much of it deserves to be preserved–but Bush and his crew don’t follow the democratic process. They weren’t elected, and they act in secrecy. That’s not Republicanism–that’s imperialism. I’m waiting now to see whether Bush actually signs the Voting Rights Act renewal.
July 21st, 2006 at 7:55 pm[...] Here’s a more recent, “more war!” quote from Billy Boy. This one is about Iran. What a f**king psycho. With “influence,” except among those with IQ’s above 90. [...]
July 21st, 2006 at 9:54 pmI believe there’s a pertinent quote for this: “Fighting for peace is like screwing for abstinence.”
July 21st, 2006 at 11:18 pmIf I had known that “cakewalk” actually meant hellish chaotic war in the Middle East, I would have never gone on any of those church cakewalks as a child.
July 21st, 2006 at 11:31 pmCall the WHITE COATS for this lunatic!!!! This man belongs in an insane asylum!
How can anyone take this fanatic seriously?? He is regurgitating the SAME the arguments that got us into Iraq!!!
Maybe his fat ass will go to Tehran?
Kristol is a WACK JOB!!
OUR LAST HOPE IS FOR THE GENERALS AT THE PENTAGON!!!!
July 22nd, 2006 at 8:31 amthe u.s.cannot do anything about iran.you could unleash some random bombing,but that will only piss them off.to invade you would need at least 500,000 troops,and ain’t got ‘em unless you institute the draft,then let’s seethe shit hit the fan.your military isobsolete.there will be no more conventional wars,you’ll be fighting ghosts forever.
July 22nd, 2006 at 11:21 amI’d love to see Mr. Kristol and his family personally head up the invasion. Be first on the group to be greeted as heroes and such. :)
July 22nd, 2006 at 12:15 pmI didnt know Kristal was a Jew!!!
July 22nd, 2006 at 12:59 pmComment #367 “Just a reminder of fanatical Islam:” is actually a reminder of a Neil Boortz schpeel from a few months ago. Muslims WERE outraged in the situations Frogcatcher/Boortz cite: spend a few minutes with a search engine and I guarantee you’ll find condemnations of Muslim caused-atrocities in newspapers from Jakarta to Rabat.
July 22nd, 2006 at 2:50 pmOne conservative suggested that the U.S. invade and convert Muslim countries. When that happened, the “William Kristoll”s of Muslim societies said to themselves “Those fanatical Christians/Westerners!! Where’s their outrage???”
I don’t remember the U.S government distancing himself from that comment. By Boortz’s logic, all Americans must therefore support forceable conversion of Muslims.
Go to American websites and you’ll find thousands of people on the political fringe with radically violent attitudes towards Muslims. There are Americans writing letters to the papers saying we should drop a nuclear bomb on Iran.
Where’s the outrage?
As Mr. Kristoll demonstrates, there are people in the west and in the Islamic world for who life is cheap. Why aren’t conservatives outraged at Kristoll willing to take the lives of Iranian kids? Don’t tell me “self defense”- that’s what the radical cleric Ibrahim Khris’tel says.
And yeah, in response to #377, I don’t know if Iran is a red-state, but their president is a neo-con. He thinks just like William Kristoll. They should have lunch sometime and we can see how long it takes for them to waterboard eachother out of self defense.
[...] Car d’autres prétendent aussi à ce titre suprême, quand ils jugent bon d’entrer en guerre contre l’Iran, à la faveur du conflit actuel entre Israël et le Hezbollah. Brrr… [...]
July 22nd, 2006 at 8:03 pm[...] It is as if the politicians and US Officials have learned nothing from debacle in Iraq. I am beginning to believe that there is a theme of world domination underlying these military advances… this morning Bill Kristol appeared on Fox and suggests moving troops into Iran saying, “We can try diplomacy. I’m not very hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.” Kristol claimed the people of Iran would embrace “the right use of targeted military force.” He added that military force could “trigger changes in Iran,” causing them to embrace regime change.” (Faiz, Think Progress) Explore posts in the same categories: News, Politics [...]
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:02 pmI can’t believe we would let this chance pass us. We attacked Iraq, a country that had little support for its regime, more than 50,000 Iraqi deaths, once again most of these children’s parents didn’t support the regime. Now we have the opportunity to go in Iran, a democratically selected regime, and these people have no one to blame but themselves. How can we be blamed for killing a slew of these kids after all their parents supported the past regime. You got to love democracy. go get em!
July 24th, 2006 at 10:31 am#376
July 27th, 2006 at 1:03 pm> Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
That is an outright lie. /Iran/ was on America’s side just after 9/11 FFS.
Dont think for one minute all your tree hugging is going to in any way endear you to a terrorist’ heart. They will kill you as fast as they will anyone else. There is a lot of idiology on the airwaves mostly left wing and bitter….. regardless the evil extremists will eventually show you all how stupid you are. Or will kill you outright. We can’t just offer them a flower like the hippies of the 60s. Sorry there is a cold hard fact awaiting the left coast and all their stupid followers….. in the end all will die and while you are doing so….. wonder; “why me?’ Because you forgot to hand them a flower and a kiss. Bill Kristol may not be right but neither are most of you who have written in such utter nonsense. You don’t want war….. just peace. There is a price for peace and you are not willing to pay it. Therefore you don’t deserve it. and you sure as hell don’t deserve the freedoms paid for by American military who have fought for YOUR rights over the years. Freedom of speech was not meant for idiots like most of you that have written your garbage. Just shut the hell up….. and wait for the next 9/11 coming to a neighborhood near you.
July 31st, 2006 at 7:45 pmI find it most intriguing your wish that all of us tree huggers are going to be killed by evil extremists. Now I for one wouldn’t wish it on anyone, not even you, idiot, but just one simple point. For the most point most of the people killed in 9-11 were not tree huggers. I mean the targets themself, the World Trade Center, not exactly screams leftist ideology and the Pentagon, not even going to go there. So maybe flowers are safer, although to be truthful the last person I gave a flower to she did appreciate them. As a veteran, 13 years U.S. Navy I guess I earned the peace I fought for. I damn sure earned the freedom to hand out a few flowers if I so choose without idiots like you wishing ill of me. Go straight to hell, if you believe.
August 2nd, 2006 at 9:46 pmBill Kristol does not know anything about Iran so his judgment about that country is totally wrong!! The best way to deal with Iran is through direct negotiations. Any military actions against Iran would cause all Iranian to become united and support the regime. But on the contrary, through negations and establishing relationship, the regime would become vulnerable for change.
August 23rd, 2006 at 7:31 pmYou people wouldn’t fight to defend yourselves against ANYTHING! Your views on matters of national security are of no value whatsoever to anyone.
October 6th, 2006 at 9:16 pm[...] When I stumbled upon this interview it provided a great deal of relief. Not because it was extremely positive and seemingly rosy. Because its not, in fact its rather dry and skeptical hence the materialization of whats really in the back of everyone’s mind. But because the momentum of the U.S. diplomatic developments with Syria and Iran has reversed. I recall not too long ago writing an article citing Bill Kristol saying, “We can try diplomacy. I’m not very hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.†Kristol claimed the people of Iran would embrace “the right use of targeted military force.†He added that military force could “trigger changes in Iran,†causing them to embrace regime change.” (Faiz, Think Progress) [...]
November 21st, 2006 at 1:30 am[...] required - just a healthy dose of “shock and awe” bombardment which, according to William Kristol and his compatriots, will lead to an uprising of pro-American reformers that would topple the [...]
March 12th, 2007 at 3:13 pm[...] course, this is the same Bill Kristol who said in the days leading up to the Iraq War: We are tempted to comment, in these last days before the [...]
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:26 am[...] (4) | My vote: None Maybe he’s not so much saying we will as he is saying we should, but Kristol certainly makes the case for (inevitable?) war with Iran: KRISTOL: We have to be ready to use military force against Iran, if it comes to that. Think what [...]
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:58 pm