“Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.”
By on Jul 20th, 2006 at 10:44 am
“Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.”
Some scientific insight from James Dobson’s Focus on the Family, in response to a new campaign called BornDifferent. Dobson has launched a counter-campaign.
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Stupidity has reached new levels. Dogs mooing = gay people??? WTF mate??
July 20th, 2006 at 10:49 amDobson is mentally ill since his mother beat him with her girdle when he was a boy > lol.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:50 amDobson I guess has never noticed male dogs doing each other, so whatever James is nuts!
July 20th, 2006 at 10:52 amAh crap… just followed the links and read the details. They’re both idiots. Seems that the dog mooing comparison was actually started by the “borndifferent” campaign. It boggles the mind. How could these people think that this message would resonate with people?
July 20th, 2006 at 10:53 amsomeone please explain to me why james dobson was born mooing
July 20th, 2006 at 10:53 amDobson has absolutely no grasp on reality. He’d have been right at home with the world-is-flat people centuries ago.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:58 amIn Dobson’s case, he was born an idiot.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:59 amIt has been proven that those who have an obsession about Gays, and what they do in bed, are actually worried about their own sexuality and afraid of their own lusts for the same sex! Many homophobes are actually deeply closeted people themselves!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:02 amMost gay bashers want it up the ass. I’m sure of it.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:04 amso…if you are not “born” gay, that means you make a choice to be gay, correct? Now, if you’ve chosen to be “straight”, you still have homosexual tendencies, as this was a “choice” during your sexual awakening. No wonder the people that believe this crap are homophobic, because deep down, they may have some “gay” issues as a result of choosing a lifestyle.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:07 amBut Jebus said to Bush:
1. Gays are sub human
2. Kill Arabs and Muslims
3. Medical research is Murder.
Who are you to Disagree with Jebus ????
July 20th, 2006 at 11:07 amIt has been proven that those who have an obsession about Gays, and what they do in bed, are actually worried about their own sexuality and afraid of their own lusts for the same sex! Many homophobes are actually deeply closeted people themselves!
Comment by Jay Randal
Excellent! My point exactly.
and really, for most “gays”, it’s not about the sex, it’s about a relationship. It’s the homophobes who zero in on the sexual act
July 20th, 2006 at 11:09 amI have a question. Has anyone ever tried to explain the “gay lisp”? Is that something homosexuals are born with?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:09 amwomen aren’t born with protruding adams’-apple, and … wait…oh, never mind.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:14 amLet’s be politically correct here.
Some people may be born gay but James Dobson evolved to become the complet moron he is today.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:18 amOK religious morons out there, here is one to chew on. The Greek and Roman civilization were well documented with bisexual and homosexual behavior as being the norm. Yet, your God did not wipe them out or hit them with some plague as punishement. No, their civilizations dominated two extensive blocks of history and flurished. The point being, why can’t you idiots let God judge our actions? We and he does not need your help to tell us how we should live.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:19 amRegardless as to whether it is nature or nurture, innate / developmental / degenerative / choice, the political reality is this. Gay activists are trying to parley the American public’s tolerance of the homosexual lifestyle into acceptance of homosexual unions as equal to heterosexual unions between one man and one woman. Unfortunately, instead of moving the American public towards their goal gradually with civil unions through the legislative process, while respectfully appealing to Christian compassion, democrats tried to ramrod gay marriages through the courts while deriding Christians as bigotted.
The backlash of this tactic was swift, strong and decisive, and will be very, very long lasting. It is a lesson to democrats that by picking a fight, you just might lose ground, not gain it.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:20 amChase > most Gay guys do not have a lisp thing > those who do that want to do so as some kind of playacting! Just the same as some guys acting like John Wayne > lol.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:24 amtried to ramrod gay marriages
heeehehheheheee
July 20th, 2006 at 11:24 amFact: I was born gay. I have always been gay. There was never a time in my life when I wasn’t gay. I struggled with my gay identify, but not because I was a confused straight boy. I WAS GAY LIVING IN A STRAIGHT WORLD!
Dobson can go and jump off a cliff. His ignorance on the issue is no match for the experience of my own life and of millions of other people.
If the moonbats on the rapture right really want to “prove” that sexual orientation is a choice then let’s see them take a straight guy and turn him gay. If sexuality is that malleable, then by all means prove it.
In the meantime, stop messing with my life and my civil rights! Stop fighting tooth and nail to keep me and people like me in second class status. Screw you, Dobson and your girdle-throwing mama too!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:25 amso, people with lisps are gay? I was not aware of that. Whodathunk my neighbor with 4 kids and a beautiful wife, is gay because of a lisp. Wait’ll I tell him!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:26 amYou know,
I agree that Gays and Lesbians should have equal rights and should be able to have a legaly recognized partner.
So I think it should be called a civil union and a couple in a civil union should have the same protection and rights, as a married couple.
I just don’t like the term “Marriage.”
sorry to all the people on the other team….
July 20th, 2006 at 11:28 amJason LOL > nobody has denigrated marriage by demanding equal rights for Gays and Lesbians! Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:29 amI seriously worry about the mental capacity of anyone who has ever heard dogs mooing…
July 20th, 2006 at 11:30 amUgh, the whole “dog mooing” thing started with the BornDifferent people. What a terrible, TERRIBLE campaign. Why not try to correlate it to something like albinoism, which while similarly “broken” from a purely biological perspective carries no moral stigma?
Personally, I think there’s too much focus on genetic causes and too little focus on developmental causes. There have been recent studies (cited in a recent The Economist article) that indicate that hte likelihood of a woman having a gay son increases as the number of male children she has increases. This was true whether the sons were raised together or separately, and did not appear when the woman had previously-adopted step-sons.
Which indicates that homosexuality is more likely due to hormonal or developmental factors relating to the mother and child, rather than something like a “gay gene”. It also strongly suggests that homosexuality isn’t a choice, but has some root biological cause.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:32 am#18 – Fair, not most. But many, many, many. Most of the gay males I know (my mother is a hairdresser – I’ve known gay guys my whole life).
But why is it so common (it is, stop acting like it’s not)? Is it a ‘gay culture’ thing?
I really don’t know.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:34 amJonathon > do not worry about what other people think about your life! I believe that everybody should mind their own business!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:34 amDobson is not human as he has show to be no more intelligent than chimps.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:36 amI think that the same “christian compationate republicans” should be out againt adultry in full force, because that’s why really destroys marriage..
I think that Bill O’Rielly, Rudy Giuliani, Bob Dole, and Rush Limbaugh, should all take a strong stand against adulty….
Oh wait….they all cheated on their wives….Damn it.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:37 amPeople are born white, black, and yellow. People are born missing limbs, or with an extra limb. Some people are born with brains that cause them learning disabilities.
Some people are born with certain phobias.
There are so many varieties of people, that aren’t “normal” in terms of both physical elements and mental elements.
So why can’t someone be born attracted to the opposite sex?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:40 amThey have to make ridiculous comparisons like this because if they focused on all mammal sexuality they would find many reasons that male dogs have sex with other male dogs. Of course, they aren’t necessarily gay but more about dominance and leadership…but it happens in all mammals. If there is a difference it is because human beings attach emotion to sexual behaviour more than dominance and social heirarchy.
Re; #26. My GF used to be a dancer and still occasionaly teaches dance. So I’ve met a small number of gay men. Not one of them has had a lisp and I think only one has even been the effeminate cliche. The others were just regular guys.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:41 amChase > since you have been around Gay guys in the hair cutting profession, then no wonder you hear the lisp thing a lot! Hollywood movies kind of promoted the thing that Gays working in salons have a lisp, so like I said it’s playacting!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:41 am#32 – So they are just acting like that, to keep up with their common perception?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:44 amBut LISP wasn’t a computer language widely used for Artificial Intelligence?
/Computer Geek Joke off
July 20th, 2006 at 11:48 amI want to know when Dr. Dobson recived his Ph.D. in science and gained the authority to say this? LAst time I checked he only had a degree in psychology. They just seem to forget that God created each one of us individually. I cannot see anyone choosing to be gay becuase of all the problems they experience. Why would ayone choose this?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:49 amSo they are just acting like that, to keep up with their common perception?
Comment by Chase — July 20, 2006 @ 11:44 am
Most of the openly gay people I know do not have a lisp, or any other speech defect of any kind.
I am willing to bet some of the people you know are homosexuals and you haven’t even noticed -a lot of gay people work hard at concealing their sexual orientation for fear of public shame, fear of losing friends and/or having to sever contact with their families.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:50 amOh, and the association of nature’s traits to heterosexuality is simply lame. Any lover of Science channels in TV knows that there is a BIG LOT of examples of homosexual acts, tendencies and rituals in the nature. And many animals can change sex in their lifetimes. Or have both. Of course heterosexual interaction is needed in developed species to breed, but even this isn’t a must. Take starfishes, for example. If a limb is severed from the main body, the main body will grow another limb and, from the severed limb will grow another full body.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:53 amDobson and others of his stripe will,I hope,some day have voices that are not heard.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:55 amOh but come on…that scene where the penguin gets a drink at the watercooler and decides to be gay is hilarious.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:57 amOl’ SpongeDob sure does worry what “teh gays” are doing to each other.
I wonder why?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:01 pmYes Chase they are playacting > perhaps for your benefit? Limp wrist thing is also just an act too! Most Gay guys act masculine, so you probably never notice them in public!
July 20th, 2006 at 12:03 pmJason LOL > nobody has denigrated marriage by demanding equal rights for Gays and Lesbians! Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 20, 2006 @ 11:29 am
But in Scandanavia, the legalization of gay marriage has caused heterosexual couples to wait until after the birth of their second child to get married.
The previous news was brought to you by a citizen in my community who is against gay marriage and used this reasoning to support his view. No, really. He wrote a column in our local newspaper.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:12 pmPeople are born with reproductive organs that conflict with their chromosomes.
Vote Independent. Vote for Moral Foreign Policy.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:15 pm“Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.â€
And no human being is born with hatred or intolerance.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:15 pmPost 42 WC > those who are against Gays getting hitched use any excuse they can find!
July 20th, 2006 at 12:15 pmThe bible states that homosexuality is wrong.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#25. “Brain Sex”, “Why men don’t iron”, and “Sex on the brain” cover this topic very well. I read Brain Sex several years ago and it really changed my views. Fetal development has a great impact on fetal outcome. A surge of hormomes may crate a hyper-feminine female or a homosexual male. There IS scientific evidence, one just has to look past their bias.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:21 pmAnd yet we have newborn puppies that will suck the teats of a hog to get their daily requirement of milk.
And the hog lets them! Now that’s just not right!
The hog should know better. She should be able to look at those puppies and realize that they are not hogs and refuse to roll over for them.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:22 pmWe must try to remember that James Dobson was severly abused as a child, primarily by his mother. He has never sought therapy to deal with how this has affected his life. His preoccupation with matters of sexuality, especially with homosexuality, would seem to indicate that he has serious issues that clearly need addressing. His intense need to stamp out homosexuality, because it is a ‘threat’, is a cry for help. Does he hope that by stamping it out of everyone else that it will stamp it out in him too? I am not saying that he is Gay, how could I know that? But he does have an issue with it, that is his alone. He just uses religion to hide behind.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:22 pmComment by Daryll
Is this the same Bible the was translated in 200 different flavors, and completely lost its authenticity?
Or is it the Bible that instructed christians to go on crusades?
Or is it the Bible that led to the abuses of the church in the Middle Ages?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:24 pmActually I am surprised that James Dobson believes so strongely in the sanctity of heterosexual marriage, since his mother abused him horribly, and his father beat him too?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:24 pmHe is the product of bad parenting, so he should not be telling others how to live their lives!
Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Ah, come on. Don’t people get it? If a gay couple moves in next door to me and is allowed the same rights as the dh and me, well there goes my marriage. Because after all, the only thing holding my marriage together is discrimination against others.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:28 pmHit “post” too soon. Yes, that was meant to be sarcastic.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pmPost 42 WC > those who are against Gays getting hitched use any excuse they can find!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 20, 2006 @ 12:15 pm
Yep. Those couples had been getting married after the birth of their first child. Gay marriage changed that. I can clearly see the connection (wink, wink).
July 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pmWell post 52 > some people like Dobson believe that > lol.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pmPeople are born cross gendered.
Cats are born with 2 faces.
People are born with both sexual organs.
These are the things Christians deny.
This is why Christians should not have a hand in Americas morality.
Vote Independent. Vote for Moral Foreign Policy.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pm#46-Daryll, the bible also states that eating lobster is wrong. But I never hear people preaching against that. With the exception of PETA, that is. And I don’t think they are against it because it says so in the bible.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pmIsrael and Clinton and the DLC are coming out in full force support for Lieberman.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:31 pmThe bible states that homosexuality is wrong.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:18 pm
The bible also says that gambling is wrong. Or so says a former co-worker. That’s why he was against the creation of our state lottery. I guess the high school kids in our state who get to attend college that is paid by lottery proceeds are all going to hell.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:33 pmPost 54 WC > there would only be a connection, if the husbands ran off to get married with their best buddies, instead of marrying their girl friends > hint! ( Sarcasm on.)
July 20th, 2006 at 12:33 pmComment by Daryll
Is this the same Bible the was translated in 200 different flavors, and completely lost its authenticity?
Or is it the Bible that instructed christians to go on crusades?
Or is it the Bible that led to the abuses of the church in the Middle Ages?
Comment by Jebus loves me — July 20, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
July 20th, 2006 at 12:34 pm_______________________________________________________________________________
I’m really not sure why it was translated in 200 different flavors. Man (including you) has stated the bible has lost it’s authenticity, but not so. Everything that the bible instructed will happen has happened/is happening (read Revelations). Also, Jesus did instruct his children to go ye into all the world and teach his gospel. Some people misinterpret the bible, but the bible is written with instructions that are plain as day.
Post 58 > How about Hillary marrying Joe and they run off together to Israel?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:36 pm#13 The only person I know with a “gay lisp” is a heterosexual friend of mine. Though he is married with kids, and clearly not confused about his sexuality, he says people always assume that he’s gay because of his speech impediment. Isn’t it interesting that people in 2006 still assume that benign physiological manifestations such as speech impediments are an indication of a person’s sexual orientation? Isn’t it amazing that what a person wears, how he styles his hair, what he does for a living and even how he crosses his legs, is a constant concern of heterosexual men as if one inerrant gender role violation or one inappropriate gesture will render them instantly homosexual?
So as for your question: I don’t know any homosexuals who lisp but I will ask your question to my heterosexual friend and get back with you with his answer. I’m pretty sure what his answer will be.
While we’re waiting for my friend’s reply let me ask you a few much more reasonable questions? You can get back with me later on your answers:
1. Why is it that the more educated a person is, and the more exposed a person is to the wider world, the less likely they are to be racists, sexists, xenophobes and homophobes?
2. Why is it that racists are also overwhelmingly sexist, xenophobic and homophobic?
3. Why is it that so many straight people believe that sexual orientation can be changed from heterosexual to homosexual but almost no gay people seriously do?
4. Do straight people that believe sexual orientation is changeable fight a constant battle to remain straight or is it just that they believe everybody else BUT them does?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:38 pmThe bible also says that gambling is wrong. Or so says a former co-worker. That’s why he was against the creation of our state lottery. I guess the high school kids in our state who get to attend college that is paid by lottery proceeds are all going to hell.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
July 20th, 2006 at 12:39 pm_________________________________________________________________________________
It is indeed wrong. There are other avenues that can be used other than gambling. No excuse. It states in the bible that governments will rule, but to follow the ultimate law, which is his word.
Why do dogs lick their own butts? Should we do that now?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:42 pm#17, Hey, Hendler, so you think it would have been better for interracial unions to be called by another name? Just as long as they take baby steps, right? Ridiculous. It’s all or nothing. And if you think for one minute gay marriage will forever be prohibited, you’re fooling yourself. It’s coming. It may take 50 years, but it’s coming.
Why don’t you ask African Americans if they would be satisfied having their unions called by a different name? Let’s see what kind of response you get.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:42 pmThat’s Bill Clinton.
Vote Independent. Vote for Moral Foreign Policy.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:44 pm#46-Daryll, the bible also states that eating lobster is wrong. But I never hear people preaching against that. With the exception of PETA, that is. And I don’t think they are against it because it says so in the bible.
Comment by Cyra Brown — July 20, 2006 @ 12:30 pm
_________________________________________________________________________________
Yes it is also considered unrighteous. The bible states that it isn’t easy serving christ because of temptations, but if you want to see the kingdom of god (heaven) then you will go through a lot of pain/temptation.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:44 pmDaryll,
Do you believe that every word in the Bible came from God?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:45 pmIt is indeed wrong. There are other avenues that can be used other than gambling. No excuse. It states in the bible that governments will rule, but to follow the ultimate law, which is his word.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
So what about those high school kids?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:47 pm[...] “Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.†[...]
July 20th, 2006 at 12:49 pmDaryll,
Do you believe that every word in the Bible came from God?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 12:45 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, because he also stated in the bible that he is the word, and the word is him. The bible also states that no one should take bits and pieces of the word, but should preach the complete word for the unrighteous to understand. It’s all about bringing the unrighteous to christ, Glory to God!!! If you consider yourself as following in the ways of holiness then you can’t practice homosexuality because it’s condemned in his word. There is a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:52 pmAnd so since every word in the Bible came directly from God, it stands to reason that those words carry considerable more authority than, say, the word of man. Is that correct?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:54 pmSo what about those high school kids?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:47 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
This is where we should go to the rich. They should give even more. This society is financially uneven because of the greed of the rich.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:54 pmAnd so since every word in the Bible came directly from God, it stands to reason that those words carry considerable more authority than, say, the word of man. Is that correct?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 12:54 pm
_________________________________________________________________________________
Most definitely, man will fail, but god doesn’t. This is also explained in the bible. Always trust in him and never doubt. Read Revelations. This life on earth is temporary. The ultimate goal for everyone, per the bible, should be to make it heaven and be considered worhty.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pmThis is where we should go to the rich. They should give even more. This society is financially uneven because of the greed of the rich.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:54 pm
Answer the question. Are the kids who accept lottery proceeds to attend college going to hell because of the fact that the money was collected in a sinful way?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pm#72: Cool, so given that you “preach the complete word”, we can assume you follow the Biblical directives on how to treat your slaves. Wait, you do have slaves, right?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pmI’ll accept that argument as being a valid metaphor…
After someone can get a dog to moo at all.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:58 pmSo, it’s safe to say, then, that the Bible provides us with a set of instructions, a template, so to speak, for how to lead our lives. Right?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:00 pmDogs at birth don’t start humping your leg, but give them some time.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:00 pmAnswer the question. Are the kids who accept lottery proceeds to attend college going to hell because of the fact that the money was collected in a sinful way?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
_________________________________________________________________________________
No, because they didn’t commit the sin.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:04 pmWell I see the born different crowd here devolves into name calling and not itelligent dialogue. Dobson is right. The reader should ask God, he will give you the conviction to know the truth.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:05 pmTell me, Daryll, do you go to church? I assume you do. Did your preacher attend seminary school? Does he have any additional religious training?
If so, why? If he was called by God to preach the gospel, and God is almighty and all powerful, why did your preacher have to go to college to learn about the Bible and be trained to be a preacher? Where in your Bible does it say that man must receive additional training to preach the word of God? Does your religious organization (Methodist, Baptist, etc.) require a college degree before someone is allowed to preach to its members?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:06 pmSo, it’s safe to say, then, that the Bible provides us with a set of instructions, a template, so to speak, for how to lead our lives. Right?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
Correct, the complete bible. The bible states that you should live your life according to the world even if society criticizes you.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:06 pmSome people misinterpret the bible, but the bible is written with instructions that are plain as day.
Comment by Daryll
Then I suggest you stay in the closet.
There is a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
Comment by Daryll
Don’t be ridiculous, Daryll.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:07 pmTell me, Daryll, do you go to church? I assume you do. Did your preacher attend seminary school? Does he have any additional religious training?
If so, why? If he was called by God to preach the gospel, and God is almighty and all powerful, why did your preacher have to go to college to learn about the Bible and be trained to be a preacher? Where in your Bible does it say that man must receive additional training to preach the word of God? Does your religious organization (Methodist, Baptist, etc.) require a college degree before someone is allowed to preach to its members?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:06 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
It doesn’t. That’s society’s standards. God will call whoever whenever to preach the gospel (it has been proven in the bible). These days there are a lot of false prophets within are midst. That’s the reason why bible states to be careful and know the word for yourselve. Your preacher isn’t going to save you from unrighteousness, only god.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:10 pmJames is correct. Dogs do not moo. Neither do they beat their pups.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:10 pmNo, because they didn’t commit the sin.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:04 pm
But they encourage the sin by accepting the money. Doesn’t that make them an accessory to the sin? Isn’t that money “tainted?” After all, it was used to commit an act of sin.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmChase: “Has anyone ever tried to explain the “gay lispâ€? Is that something homosexuals are born with?” – - “Thufferin’ thucotash! Ya mean I’m GAY??” – Sylvester
July 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmDon’t be ridiculous, Daryll.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
I’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:13 pmComment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Come on, Daryll. Answer the rest of the question.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:14 pmRE: Comment #23
Yeah, because “seperate but equal” works SO well, doesn’t it? Face it, even if you gave us “civil unions” that were literally every bit the same as marriage, but didn’t call it marriage, then it’d still be psychologically different, discriminatory, even.
As for Dobson, he’s completely out of touch with reality. If he thinks I woke up one day and said “Gee, I feel like having most of society hate me for no good reason!” and chose to be gay, he’s insane.
Oh, and Daryll, hon…no one cares. Really. The bible says a LOT of things are “wrong”, like eating shrimp (right there in the same book as your precious condemnation of homosexuality).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:14 pmSo when was the last time you thought Red Lobster should be illegal based on biblical law, hmmm?
I didn’t think so.
No, read the Galatians.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:16 pmAfter years of study and tests on millions of humans DNA Dobson can now qualitatively prove that humans can not be born with variances in physical sexual orientation…
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/102/17/6045
http://www.genetics.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/2/1055
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
July 20th, 2006 at 1:16 pmThe bible states that you should live your life according to the world even if society criticizes you.
I think you maybe meant to say “word” instead of “world,” but that’s OK.
On one of yesterday’s threads, I brought up the story of Lot’s daughters as an example of something in the Bible that I find very difficult to square in purely moral terms. I’m frankly not really sure what I would say to one of my own kids if they asked me to explain to them what lesson they should take away from the example of two young women who get their father drunk, “lay with him” (i.e., have sex with him), and then bear his children.
If, as you stated, we should live our lives according to the word even if society criticizes us, are we to assume that the Bible is sanctioning incest?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:17 pmDaryll
your a good man who believes in God and the Bible, and I respect that.
I also recognize that you want to do the right thing.
However, I believe that GOD, in whatever form we believe him to be is full of Love and that he doesn’t discriminate between people.
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:20 pmBorn gay…know what? I don’t care. It’s a moot subject. We have the freedom to be who we wish to be, SO LONG AS WE DON’T INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS! Okay, sorry ’bout that. (I know we all loathe all-caps, but I wanted to make a point) Any one who stands up and vows to devote their life to another human being, I applaud their devotion. More than HALF of all straight marriages in this country don’t last three years, (adultery, financial issues, stagnation) AND a guy dressed as Elvis has the power to pronounce you man and wife, uh-huh-huh. So, where’s the sacred part come in? I’ve yet to hear a decent argument to keep fags and lesbians from legally benefitting from their relationship. Sure, dogs don’t moo, but dogs aren’t people either? Have we forgotton that gays are PEOPLE?! Seriously, take one out to lunch, go shopping, walk your dogs together. Form friendships, get to know your fellow human beings. Leave the sex in the bedroom, or the kitchen if that’s what you’re into. I don’t care if you’re born gay or straight, love who you want. It’s mind-boggling how the faithful have made love evil and wrong….and the ACT of making love evil and wrong as well.
“[Christians who are against gays] also believe that we should be FRUITFUL. . .and multiply. Boy, they walk a tight rope every day, don’t they? ‘How do we be fruitful and not think about it? We can sing hymns during it: One stroke at a time, sweet Jesus. . .One stroke at a time…sweet Lord’” -Bill Hicks
July 20th, 2006 at 1:20 pmAll this talk about if gay is right or wrong. People listen up when or if you get to heaven you’ll see that God loves all humans so if you don’t like gays now just hope that you aren’t in the group in heaven with gays. That might be the one question God ask you that could mean heaven or hell. Do you love all of Gods children or are you prejudice. I bet many will change their answer then so here on earth at this time say what ever you want and follow the prejudice Administration but join God’s group in heaven by accepting all or go to where it is 1000 degrees and hotter your choice,
July 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmCome on, Daryll. Answer the rest of the question.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
No, there only attending the school. They’re not taking the money directly. The blood is on the state’s and county schools’ hands.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:24 pmcan we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter? – -
July 20th, 2006 at 1:26 pm“I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
While thinking about that, can I ask another? My employees insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?
Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this (country): touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?”
Jesus fulfilled the law. The most important thing is to love God with all of your heart. Second, love your neighbor as you love God. Anyone who goes around pointing out homosexuals are not neighbors is not of God, but of the evil one.
Also, why is it necessary for Mr. Dobson to lie?
Do either of these studies state that people are not born gay?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:26 pmDaryll
your a good man who believes in God and the Bible, and I respect that.
I also recognize that you want to do the right thing.
However, I believe that GOD, in whatever form we believe him to be is full of Love and that he doesn’t discriminate between people.
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter?
_________________________________________________________________________________
Correct, one of the laws is not to hate our fellow man. Even though I don’t know each and everyone of you, I love you all in an agape manner, but I dislike the sins that commit as well as the sins that I commit. Once I commit a sin, repent quickly and try not to commit the sin again.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll
The world isn’t black and white, as much as you may want it that way, Daryll. Given your set of circumstances, no, they cannot reproduce. But we don’t put homosexuals on separate islands and leave them to die.
A lesbian woman can reproduce as easily as I can, through artificial insemination, or heterosexual contact; a gay man can reproduce through similar methods.
You have been proven wrong.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:28 pmDogs are not mooing…
But assholes are creating webpages.
Awesome.
This site is ghey.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:30 pmHey, Dobson, babies aren’t born sexually active. They *choose* to be sexually active sometime later in life. You know, the way you chose to be a strong, God-fearing, apple-pie-lovin’, heterosexual man?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:35 pmComment by Daryll
But sin and repentance is between you and God and Government shouldn’t intervene. If you believe that Gay marriage is a Sin, then that’s your belief…
However, the government has no right to push that belief on us
July 20th, 2006 at 1:36 pmComment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
Money raised from a sinful act is paying for it. It’s sin money. The Devil’s money.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:36 pmcan we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter? – -
“I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
While thinking about that, can I ask another? My employees insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?
Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this (country): touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?â€
Comment by Badmoodman — July 20, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
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Let’s be logical, the bible said thou shalt not kill. Also, later in the New Testament the bible denounced slavery and bondage (Please read).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pmComment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Come on, Daryll. Answer the rest of the post at #87.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pmHey homophobe? How many souls will be lost because James Dobson can’t stomach gay sex? The idea that gays should change before entering the church is wrong.
Let’s leave homosexuals alone. Those of us who are Christian should be sweet, as Jesus has commanded us. We should be giving them the shirts off our backs. The homosexuals will wonder what makes us so sweet and will want to be a part of it. If God wants them to change, we’ll have brought them to the table where they can be reached. It is not for anyone to pass judgement on another.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pmDaryll,
You may have missed it, but I’d like you to comment on my earlier post (#99).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:40 pmI’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll
So God knew there would be homosexual men and women. Did he know that before he created man and woman? Hmmmm. He knew it would happen, yet he allowed it anyway.
Are you saying that is the sole reason why he created man and woman so that they could not reproduce with others of the same sex, simply because they may turn gay?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmThe law is for you to follow, not for you to enforce.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmThe world isn’t black and white, as much as you may want it that way, Daryll. Given your set of circumstances, no, they cannot reproduce. But we don’t put homosexuals on separate islands and leave them to die.
A lesbian woman can reproduce as easily as I can, through artificial insemination, or heterosexual contact; a gay man can reproduce through similar methods.
You have been proven wrong.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
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I used that example as an analogy. If it was meant to be wny would you have to go back to the naturally intended gender to reproduction. The bible also states the reproduction method was created for a married man and woman. Your method is contradictive to the word.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmI have no idea if this is related but there is a mooing dog in Apple Computer’s past.
The mascot and semiofficial emblem of Claris Software [Appleworks, Clarisworks and Filemaker] was Claris the Dog-Cow. The original icon looked less like a dog than a airdale – holstein mutt. Anyway the tagline for Claris was “Moof”.
Given Apple’s policies about partner’s and even their former rainbow logo, I could see the wingnuts use that as a starting point. Or… their PR firm almost certainly is an all Mac shop and may be playing a subtle joke on Dobson.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:47 pmh yes, of course, aryll, the bible mentions homosexuality in books other than Leviticus, so that makes my point about Leviticus condemning eating shrimp totally irrelevant…
July 20th, 2006 at 1:47 pmWait, no it doesn’t.
Ass.
I’d also like to point out that, assuming God did indeed create everything in the universe, that means he created me and made me gay, so who are you to second guess him?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:51 pmFunny how no one ever brings up that point.
These idiots remind of church officials in the time of Copernicus: despite scientific evidence, they continue to insist on their version of reality.
Why do people even listen to them?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:55 pmShin Gallon, you were much more polite. If I had seen your comment before I posted my own, I would have restrained myself. I actually have no standing in this fight, since I’m a straight woman.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:57 pm“These idiots remind of church officials in the time of Copernicus: despite scientific evidence, they continue to insist on their version of reality.
Why do people even listen to them?”
Because they’re sheep, and thinking for themselves is just too hard, so they let JAYYYYSUS do all their thinking for them. Life’s easy when you mindlessly follow ancient mistranslated folk tales found on scrolls in the desert 2000 years ago!
July 20th, 2006 at 1:58 pmZooey,
As a rational, thinking human being, you most certainly do have a standing in this.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:00 pm#77-Daryll, you say that “god doesn’t fail…” Were Adam and Eve A success? They did get kicked out of Eden, after all. Cain murdered Abel, God is against that, you know. Why didn’t he just ’scrap’ them, and start over? Who’s to know? Come to think of it, How do we even know that this all REALLY happened. We are supposed to take somebody’s word for it, but according to the story here people have been sinning since the very beginning. How can we be sure they weren’t just lying?Godknewhis ‘creations were flawed, and he was ok with it then, so he must be ok with it now.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmActually, Zooey, you do have a standing, because everyone that believes in equality and fairness and basic human decency has a standing in this fight. We all have to stand up to intolerant hateful bigots like Dobson and his ilk, or they’ll drag us back to the dark ages (where gay people were stoned to death and women were basically property, no better than a donkey or field plow).
July 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmSo God knew there would be homosexual men and women. Did he know that before he created man and woman? Hmmmm. He knew it would happen, yet he allowed it anyway.
Are you saying that is the sole reason why he created man and woman so that they could not reproduce with others of the same sex, simply because they may turn gay?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
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Yes, God wanted to terminate man, but Jesus died on the cross to save us. These sins are planted on earth as a test to determine who’s really loyal to him. Are you loyal to Christ? And No, he didn’t create marriage just for reproduction to turn away gays. Jesus loves the union of a man and woman. It also explains in Mark that he rather that man and woman marry then commit fornication.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmDaryll,
I’m still interested in getting your comments on my earlier post (#99), especially in light of what you just wrote.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:03 pmI’d also like to point out that, assuming God did indeed create everything in the universe, that means he created me and made me gay, so who are you to second guess him?
Funny how no one ever brings up that point.
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
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He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#77-Daryll, you say that “god doesn’t fail…†Were Adam and Eve A success? They did get kicked out of Eden, after all. Cain murdered Abel, God is against that, you know. Why didn’t he just ’scrap’ them, and start over? Who’s to know? Come to think of it, How do we even know that this all REALLY happened. We are supposed to take somebody’s word for it, but according to the story here people have been sinning since the very beginning. How can we be sure they weren’t just lying?Godknewhis ‘creations were flawed, and he was ok with it then, so he must be ok with it now.
Comment by Cyra Brown — July 20, 2006 @ 2:01 pm
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They were used as examples to prevent us from committing those same acts.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:09 pmDobson should know the kinds of noises puppies make. He’s the one who
kicked the living crap out of his own dog, just to “show him who’s boss” — and in a valiant fight to the finish over ownership of a furry toilet seat cover.
What a sicko.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:12 pm“He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.”
I did? When did I do tat? Was it when I was a kid and I noticed I was more interested in seeing other “boy parts” than I was “girl parts”? Was it when I was a teenager and I thought about other guys all the time? Was it when I fell in love with another guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him? Or when I noticed that I found the thought of sex with a woman boring (sorry girls, no offense, you’re lovely, you just don’t “do it” for me).
July 20th, 2006 at 2:12 pmLet me ask this: When did you decide to be straight? When did YOU make a concious decision to be heterosexual? Or were you simply always straight?
Then why assume it’s any different for me? Because your little book says so? Why not try thinking things through logically for a change?
He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
So, am I correct in saying that when we’re faced with a difficult choice in life, God is actually testing us to see if we make the correct decision, that is, the decision that He knows is best.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:12 pmHe created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
So, am I correct in saying that when we’re faced with a difficult choice in life, God is actually testing us to see if we make the correct decision, that is, the decision that He knows is best.
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
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Correct. Isn’t his grace and mercy glorious?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:22 pmThanks, Shin Gallon & Bob’s Your Uncle,
I get pissed off and start running my mouth, er, keyboard. People like Daryll make me sick because they hold themselves out as morally superior to others, and that’s the kind of thinking that will destroy all of us.
I leave him/her to your tender mercies…my migraine is getting worse every minute.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:23 pmAll I could conclude from this vitriol is that James Dobson wants him some hot homo dog-sex. Do you think if he finds some, he’ll go away?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:24 pmJust had a thought — Could Daryll be Bar/Neil?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:25 pmCan we please use “Born Mooing” as a new euphemism for gay? That Richard Simmons guy was just born mooing.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:25 pm#66, Anon,
Marriage between one man and one woman is perfectly acceptable, so why would you even consider banning interracial marriage? Why would you even think to compare interracial marriage with homosexual marriage? What are you saying about other races to make such a comparison?
I personally don’t care if it becomes legal or not, it has nothing to do with me, but I thoroughly enjoy that liberals tried to intimidate Americans into accepting something or fear being labeled a bigot, and Americans stepped up to PERMANENTLY block it in their state constitutions. Take that!
July 20th, 2006 at 2:26 pmHe created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
The more I hear this statement (or something like it), the less true it sounds to me.
I have always been straight, as far back as I can recall. I cannot remember a time when I did not like girls, women, or when I did not feel a special attraction to at least one -whether a neighbor, a teacher, a friend, or a friend’s friend. Even as a small child I developed crushes on girls or female teachers.
Being physically intimate with another man is not an option for me, and I do not find the idea appealing. That thought has never once crosssed my mind as a matter of serious consideration.
In a nutshell: I did not choose to be heterosexual -I was born this way. Why would it be any different for a gay person?
Maybe the thought that one can choose one’s sexual orientation is what really scares the wits out of Dobson’s ilk: Deep down they are afraid that they might just be homosexuals, are repulsed by the idea, and it drives them to make hateful statements, undertake hateful actions.
Fear is a very powerful motivator.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:29 pmLet me follow up on this. I think most rational people would agree that we’re not born with any particular ideological bent, but that, rather, we gain our view of the world from those around us. Over time, we begin to form our sets of likes and dislikes, our preferences and prejudices based on a rather complex set of external influences.
Given this, can we infer that our choice to become a Democrat or a Republican is actually part of this decision-making test that God has devised for us? How do we know if we’ve chosen correctly?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:29 pmHe created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.â€
I did? When did I do tat? Was it when I was a kid and I noticed I was more interested in seeing other “boy parts†than I was “girl parts� Was it when I was a teenager and I thought about other guys all the time? Was it when I fell in love with another guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him? Or when I noticed that I found the thought of sex with a woman boring (sorry girls, no offense, you’re lovely, you just don’t “do it†for me).
Let me ask this: When did you decide to be straight? When did YOU make a concious decision to be heterosexual? Or were you simply always straight?
Then why assume it’s any different for me? Because your little book says so? Why not try thinking things through logically for a change?
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
I am thinking logically according to the book. The bible states that a relationship between a man and a woman is a relationship that is recognized by god. There isn’t one single scripture that indicates god recognized identical gender relationships. A man and woman’s body parts are constructed for each other. Second, I’ve always been straight. I didn’t and currently don’t have the right to change my sexuality because the bible codemns homosexuality. You chose to be what you are. I can respect you and society may accept your sexuality, but the word condemns it.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:33 pmWell, I’ll just have to take my chances with your imaginary sky-god, then, won’t I?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:37 pmThanks, Shin Gallon & Bob’s Your Uncle,
I get pissed off and start running my mouth, er, keyboard. People like Daryll make me sick because they hold themselves out as morally superior to others, and that’s the kind of thinking that will destroy all of us.
I leave him/her to your tender mercies…my migraine is getting worse every minute.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 2:23 pm
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I never considered myself morally superior. Previously, I indicated that I do commit sins myself, but I do repent. I don’t want to destroy you guys. I’m just informing you guys that homosexual actions are condemned by the word and the word is god.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:38 pmI am thinking logically according to the book….
[snip]
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
You know, when I read a sentence like that, I can’t help but think of Mao’s China.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:38 pmIn reading this site, they reference http://www.narth.com, the “national association for research and therapy of homosexuals.
doing my own research, the site is set up by Paul R. Payne consulting. Who is, interestingly, from Campus crusade for Christ. So, in doing more research it seems that the people with the “gay agenda” seem to be these few, far right wing christians who backup their research, WITH THEIR OWN RESEARCH!!!
July 20th, 2006 at 2:41 pmLet me follow up on this. I think most rational people would agree that we’re not born with any particular ideological bent, but that, rather, we gain our view of the world from those around us. Over time, we begin to form our sets of likes and dislikes, our preferences and prejudices based on a rather complex set of external influences.
Given this, can we infer that our choice to become a Democrat or a Republican is actually part of this decision-making test that God has devised for us? How do we know if we’ve chosen correctly?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
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Correct. Society has categorized sexuality. You came out of your mother’s womb as a male/female. You make the decision to become heterosexual/homosexual. God has given each human a brilliant mind to determine what’s right and wrong according to the word. Please, I’m not vocally chastising anybody, but I’m trying to help save as many souls as I can. I wouldn’t want to spend eternity in hell, which consists of fire and brimstone (hott!!).
July 20th, 2006 at 2:44 pmFor the last time, Daryll, I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Must I repeat myself endlessly for you to get this simple point?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:46 pmDaryll, if you are Bar/Neil, please un-mask.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:47 pmGod has given each human a brilliant mind to determine what’s right and wrong according to the word.
So we have the capacity to make our own decisions, as long as the choices we make line up with what someone else has already decided is best for us?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:48 pmToo bad “the word” doesn’t condemn being an irrational troll on internet forums…
July 20th, 2006 at 2:51 pmBut it DOES condemn eating shrimp! I’ve mended my ways and will go protest outside seafood places now, thanks for helping me see the light, Daryll!
But it DOES condemn eating shrimp!
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
Don’t forget the mixed fabrics ban, and the seven-day timeframe when women are supposed to be “impure” (and everything they touch) every month.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:56 pmOh yeah, I forgot about those…
July 20th, 2006 at 2:57 pmSo why don’t we see Christofacist groups like Focus on the Family calling for constitutional amendments banning shrimp and other shellfish if those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law”? I really want to know.
People aren’t born mooing either, but dogs might be born gay.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:03 pmIf you ask me, and no one did, I think the gay rights movement is the civil rights issue of our time. My parents were at the forefront of the civil rights/open housing movement in the 1960’s and 1970’s, and now my children are able to live in a diverse community and attend integrated schools. That is my parent’s legacy. What will our legacy be? Will we accept the challenge of the gay rights movement and help our country move forward, or will we shirk our responsibility so that our children live in a more hostile environment than we were left. Our generation has to answer the bell, so to speak. If we don’t embrace the gay rights movement – including the fight for equal marriage rights – we will have failed our children. The time for equality is now.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:03 pmDon’t forget the mixed fabrics ban, and the seven-day timeframe when women are supposed to be “impure†(and everything they touch) every month.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 20, 2006 @ 2:56 pm
Now that you mention it, that whole mixed fabrics thing really sticks in my craw. In fact, I’m convinced that it poses a grave and serious threat to my all-cotton shirts. I’m going to write my legislator right now and suggest that he bring this issue up on the floor of Congress. Mark my words–I will not rest until the scourge of mixed fabrics is eliminated from American society!
July 20th, 2006 at 3:05 pmif those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law�
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
God’s law also bars women from teaching men, and prescribes death by stoning for adulterers and those who work on Sabbath.
Why are those laws ignored?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:05 pmI actually had a gay dog when I was a kid. You should have heard the way my parents tried to explain that one!
July 20th, 2006 at 3:06 pmSo was that pooch born favoring its right or left paw, or did it have a choice? Has anyone ever decided whether they were either left handed, right handed or both?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:07 pm> 156
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The reason why Dobson and his ilk are so determined to prove that gay people choose it is so they get to point and say “See, they just want to be perverts and deviants, and we’re saving you from them!” whereas if people realize that being gay isn’t a choice, Dobson is shown for the intolerant monster he is.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:11 pm> 158
July 20th, 2006 at 3:15 pmBecause the kind of psychotic nut that uses the bible as justification for hate is also the kind that picks and chooses his biblical laws to only speak out against things they themselves dislike.
If someone like Dobson (or our friend Daryll here) would call for ALL biblical laws to be made into US laws, not just the ones dealing with things they don’t like (like the fact that I enjoy sex with other guys), then at least they’d be consistent. They’d still be mootbat loco, but at least they wouldn’t also be hypocrites.
You make the decision to become heterosexual/homosexual.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
Then that means you did too, Daryll. Tell us when you made the decision.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:24 pmif those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law�
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
God’s law also bars women from teaching men, and prescribes death by stoning for adulterers and those who work on Sabbath.
Why are those laws ignored?
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 20, 2006 @ 3:05 pm
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Society has ignored those laws. Adultery is depicted as an abomination to christ and no you shouldn’t work on the sabbath (which is really Saturday, read your bible). And it is indeed wrong for a women to preach in the church because the man is considered the head. The scripture says that the woman is supposed to remain silent in the church when it pertains to teaching.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:26 pmThanks for confirming that you’re also a sexist in addition to a homophobe.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:30 pmPeople like you are exactly why I don’t go to church (well, that, and I don’t believe in any god or gods).
Daryll,
Do you have any objective evidence that the Bible is the literal and direct word of God?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:31 pmCome on, Daryll. Answer the rest of my post at #87. You only responded to one issue.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:32 pmBecause the kind of psychotic nut that uses the bible as justification for hate (…)
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
My question was rather rhetorical, but I appreciate your reply nonetheless. I agree with you, by the way.
The US would be an, uhm, interesting country indeed if all the prohibitions contained in the Bible were to be enacted as laws…. ::shudder::
July 20th, 2006 at 3:34 pmFor the last time, Daryll, I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Must I repeat myself endlessly for you to get this simple point?
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
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Please, help me understand how you were born gay. When you had urges for women you went after a woman, that’s a decision. You can’t be born gay because as a baby or toddler, you don’t have a sound mind. This doesn’t happen until you mature as a child.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:36 pmWhy are folks arguing with Daryll? He clearly isn’t going to let go of his views on the “literal” interpretation of “the word” and he clearly thinks the US government should be in the business of enforcing religious laws (from one particular interpretation of one particular religion).
We’re not going to bring him around to embracing the healthy effects on a society of keeping church and state separated. We’re not going to impress upon him the similarities between his views and those of certain oppressive regimes which follow other religions. And we’re not going to convince him that “literal” is in the eye of the beholder. Etc.
To rephrase the cliche, we’re wasting our time and amusing/engaging the pig. It’s noble, sort of, and entertaining, sort of, but I hope nobody thinks it’s going to sway Daryll.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:37 pmI think the website is wonderful but the mooing dog message is problematic and an easy target for the religious right who will point out that dogs aren’t naturally born to moo. Any dog that moo’s is going against his nature and would have to be trained (or recruited as it were) to ignore his instincts in order to moo. It seems that they have already launched their counter offensive. This just doesn’t seem to me the best ad campaign that $900K could buy.
#17
I agree that gay people have probably not used the most effective means to achieve marriage equality or gay rights in general. We have allowed our ideology and sense of fairness override our strategic planning. We have fought this battle as if we live in a fair and reasonable world rather than considering the FACT that we live in a country where most people still believe we are alien and a threat to tradition.
I often wonder about the thinking behind some of the people who claim to be fighting for equal rights. I am amazed at the methods which some people seem to feel is most effective in showing the world that we are not alien and not a threat to them and their families. I personally find Gay Pride Parades and Circuit Parties (in their current manifestations) to be ineffectual and even damaging to the gay rights movement. Some of the displays that go on in these exibitions make me uncomfortable as I find them to be inappropriate for public display (and I’m an out and PROUD gay man). Once a year drag queens, leather men in assless chaps, people who are obviously hyped up on drugs and overt displays of sex do not make the average American feel less threatened by gay people. It’s hard to tell people to stop defining us by our sexuality when that is exactly what we put front and center as the thing we are most PROUD of. I love TVs, TGs and TSs and want them to proudly march in the parade but some people seem to do drag only in these parades to hide their identitiy or to offend conservatives. Neither of these reasons has anything to do with Pride. I have NEVER, EVER heard a single person say that they came out or became more gay supportive because of seeing a gay pride parade or a circuit party. If the purpose of the parades has changed, then let’s say so. There seems to be something wrong with calling something “Gay Pride” that the vast majority of out, proud, gay people wouldn’t be caught dead in.
I also believe we are concerning ourselves too much with court battles and legislative fights when many of us haven’t even talked face to face, heart to heart with our parents, children, siblings, friends, neighbors and co-workers about the fact that we’re gay, much less talk to them about who we are, who we love, how we feel and why marriage equality is important to us. I think too many people want their State House, the Courts, Congress, the President, Hollywood or the straight guy down the street to stand up and fight for gay rights when they are too lazy or too cowardly to stand up for themselves and talk to the people that they see every day. I get sick to death of hearing people whine and complain about the way their friends and family believe everything that James Dobson, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson tell them about the way gay people are, how they feel and how they act only to find out that they’re in the closet and haven’t shown those people first hand what a gay person is, how he feels and how he acts. MOST gay people need to start taking personal responsibility for our successes and failures in the fight for equal rights. MANY gay people need to stop bitchin, get off of the damn bar stool, pull their balls out of their asses, find some courage, come out and talk to everyone who will listen, face to face and heart to heart about who we are, what we want and why. People don’t discriminate against people that they know and love. PERIOD! If people get to know you, as a person who happens to be gay, and love you, as a person who happens to be gay, they will not only NOT want to discriminate against you but they will also not want anyone else to discriminate against you.
Jason, I must take great exception with your use of the term “homosexual lifestyleâ€. That is a term that is used by anti-gay people in order to suggest that homosexual orientation is a lifestyle choice, like “surfer†or “hippieâ€.
Try this: Make up a list of the five top things that you feel defines a “homosexual lifestyleâ€. Then go out and ask ten gay people if their lifestyle matches the lifestyle definitions on your list. Remember: being attracted to someone of the same gender is NOT a lifestyle and having sex with a person of the same gender is NOT a lifestyle.
While you’re at it ask them if they are sexually attracted to the one they love. Ask them if they have sex with people that they are attracted to. Ask them if they like being defined by who they are sexually attracted to. See if their answers differ in any way from the answers of heterosexuals when asked the same questions.
The fact of the matter is, INDIVIDUALS have lifestyles; races, sexes, nationalities and people of differing sexual orientations do not. There is no such thing as a racial, gender, nationality or sexual orientation lifestyle. Lifestyle groups are formed when individuals who share a lifestyle come together, or loosely identify themselves by their shared lifestyle (i.e. “surfer lifestyleâ€, “hippie lifestyle†etc.) Some people live their lives in a certain shared, identifiable style. It’s important to note however, that very few people who surf live a “surfer lifestyle†and very few peace activists live a “hippie lifestyleâ€. Even those who claim to have a “sexual lifestyle†(swingers, leathermen/women, S&M enthusiasts and other fetishists for example) regardless of their sexual orientation are using a misnomer because very few people live their LIVES as an expression of their sexual desires, fetishes, fantasies or practices. Just because two people share the same sexual interests is no indication that their lifestyles are in any way similar.
Please use appropriate terminology when you make a comment. Words are powerful and their misuse can be very misleading and hurtful (intentionally or unintentionally). Learn the differences between “sexual orientationâ€, “sexual expressionâ€, “sexual behavior†and “sexual activityâ€. The differences are not inconsequential. You may also find that people are more apt to consider your point of view when you don’t unintentionally insult them with inaccurate terminologies.
Sorry for getting carried away. My opinion may be unsolicited and unwanted, and it may come off as preachy and arrogant. I don’t intend to be offensive. I am just so frustrated by what I see around me, how we respond to it and the results we are getting. If we don’t stop doing the same old things we can’t be surprised when we keep getting the same old results. Hopefully, some will be able to overlook my poor style of communication to understand my heart. I only want us to do better.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:38 pm“Please, help me understand how you were born gay. When you had urges for women you went after a woman, that’s a decision. You can’t be born gay because as a baby or toddler, you don’t have a sound mind. This doesn’t happen until you mature as a child.”
That’s just it: I NEVER had urges for women. Only for other men. I didn’t choose it. I never made a concious decision on what I liked sexually or what I find arousing. It is NOT a choice. I am incapable of dumbing it down any further for you.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:42 pmYour argument about babies is completely illogical and irrelevant to this argument, and I have a headache from trying to figure out how it could possibly relate.
You’re a sexist homophobic sheep, and I’m through wasting my time on you. I have better things to do with my day off. Have a nice life.
And Zeke, I agree 100%
July 20th, 2006 at 3:44 pmFrom the website:
Scientific proof? That’s a pretty high standard. Can’t we just rely on faith? No? Dang.
But hey, speaking of faith, how does God stack up to the whole “scientific proof” thing?
Hey, where are you going?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:49 pmYou make the decision to become heterosexual/homosexual.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
Then that means you did too, Daryll. Tell us when you made the decision.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
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The first time I saw a Sears catalog (9 yrs old).
July 20th, 2006 at 3:51 pmThis is what happens when people take bad fiction too seriously. If one is going to rely on the authority of someone or something, there should some burden of proof as to whether or not that authority even exists.
I would understand Mr. Dobson’s displeasure were it based on his own likes, dislikes, or phobias. Those are tangible elements. His ranting and raving about the “eternal wrath” of his particular version of invisible angry sky fairy is meaningless chatter.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:52 pmLet the puppy Moo.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:55 pmClaerly a case of Dobson masterbating so much that his brains all ran out through,,,,,
July 20th, 2006 at 4:02 pmThe first time I saw a Sears catalog (9 yrs old).
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 3:51 pm
So pre-Sears catalog, you were attracted to guys. It took pictures of women in bras and panties and fantasies of what they looked like without them to snap you out of it. At that point you made the conscious decision that from this day forward, you are going to be attracted to females.
Sounds more like the beginning of adolescence/puberty.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:05 pm“Please, help me understand how you were born gay. When you had urges for women you went after a woman, that’s a decision. You can’t be born gay because as a baby or toddler, you don’t have a sound mind. This doesn’t happen until you mature as a child.â€
That’s just it: I NEVER had urges for women. Only for other men. I didn’t choose it. I never made a concious decision on what I liked sexually or what I find arousing. It is NOT a choice. I am incapable of dumbing it down any further for you.
Your argument about babies is completely illogical and irrelevant to this argument, and I have a headache from trying to figure out how it could possibly relate.
You’re a sexist homophobic sheep, and I’m through wasting my time on you. I have better things to do with my day off. Have a nice life.
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
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You’ll have your beliefs and I’ll have mines. Jesus loves you and I will be praying for you and everyone else on the forum (including myself). Always remember, find some time within the day to embrace somebody.
Your brother in the Lord,
July 20th, 2006 at 4:08 pmBro. Daryll
RE: 175
Daryll — the fact that you looked at a catalog and (presumably) found the female models attractive is not the same thing as making a choice regarding sexual orientation. You’re copping out. Now, to truly make a decision about it, you (being a thinking man) must have weighed the pros and cons of becoming homosexual, and then weighed the pros and cons of becoming (or at least remaining) heterosexual, and ultimately decided that being straight was the best choice for you. Yes?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:09 pmThis is what happens when people take bad fiction too seriously. If one is going to rely on the authority of someone or something, there should some burden of proof as to whether or not that authority even exists.
I would understand Mr. Dobson’s displeasure were it based on his own likes, dislikes, or phobias. Those are tangible elements. His ranting and raving about the “eternal wrath†of his particular version of invisible angry sky fairy is meaningless chatter.
Comment by SL Aronovitz — July 20, 2006 @ 3:52 pm
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Last post. Anytime you’re ready, please bring your bible. I have numerous scriptures for you and everyone else. Jesus loves you and I do too brother/sister.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:10 pmSo pre-Sears catalog, you were attracted to guys. It took pictures of women in bras and panties and fantasies of what they looked like without them to snap you out of it. At that point you made the conscious decision that from this day forward, you are going to be attracted to females.
Sounds more like the beginning of adolescence/puberty.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 4:05 pm
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Before age 10 all I did was play and have fun. I never thought about being attracted to any gender. I just wanted to have complete fun.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:13 pmRE: 175
Daryll — the fact that you looked at a catalog and (presumably) found the female models attractive is not the same thing as making a choice regarding sexual orientation. You’re copping out. Now, to truly make a decision about it, you (being a thinking man) must have weighed the pros and cons of becoming homosexual, and then weighed the pros and cons of becoming (or at least remaining) heterosexual, and ultimately decided that being straight was the best choice for you. Yes?
Comment by owen — July 20, 2006 @ 4:09 pm
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Correct. My decision was equivalent to choosing heaven or hell.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:16 pmwhen Dr Dobson puts his penis in his girlfriends rectum – is that normal for a married guy?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:16 pmZeke – don’t apologize for expressing your views, and no, you don’t sound arrogant or preachy.
For me, I’m in this fight for the long haul. I’m straight, but I really believe this is the most important civil rights issue of our day. And I want my kids to see me standing up for what I believe in, the way I saw my parents stand up for what they believed in. The world is a better place for my parents’ efforts, and I would like to think I my kids would think the same of my wife and I.
Any way, keep on speaking out, Zeke … and Shin Gallon, too … History is on your (our) side.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:17 pm1. “Gay” means happy and carefree. The word you are looking for is “homosexual”. Quit ruining our language with your inappropriate connotations.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:21 pm2. Homosexuals already have the same right to marry as heterosexuals.
3. Stop trying to make people accept your life style and people will leave you alone.
4. Homosexuality is a choice, just like overeating, smoking, child abuse, murder, and other destructive behaviors. Regardless of tendencies or desires, no one requires homosexuals to practice the lifestyle any more than murderers are required to kill.
May I briefly join in and please forgive, some of my thoughts are a little fuzzy due to the heat (global warming) ya know…..
All this goes back to the posting I made on another thread about polatics earlier today..Read and believe all you want but take the god part and bible out please…
In my frame of refrence 2500 years ago we had a matriacal society which by the way was a heck of a lot better than what we have had since (from what I read) Everything was shared the work and wealth…Then the christians came, wanted the land, declared war, burned my ancesters at the stake or drownd them and things started to go to shit. The churches wanted rules so they started the fear based dogma to control the masses. Sound a little famelier.?
In Native American histories many tribes revered women because they brought fourth life, their council was saught after because of their wise ways and contrares(gay) men were also revered for their wisdom and were saught after for councel as well..
Next. we should not and I will not condemn someone because they do not believe the way I do rather it is relegion politics or sex. In my entire life, untill on this thread I have not asked someone what their sexual preferance was. Although I am an old streight woman I would not volenteer something so personal to another either. Why would I. It’s none of my business and I have no intrest in knowing about others personal life and will keep my business my own. Unless someone is breaking the law by abusing someone or a child, IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Gay’s by the way are not known for harming children in any way. It is a proven fact straight white christian profesing men are the biggest perpotraters of sex crimes…All types.
Why do so many have to shove their version of a faith down our throat’s, with the claim a bible told them they need to do it.. I’m not going to tell you Mother goose nursery Rhimes is the only way to salvation…Stop it, just stop…All the bible thumping in the world is not saving lives, creating life long friendships and love ,all it is doiing is deviding the country and crimilizing wonderful people that should have the same rights you have….. People that think diffrently than I do have a problem, I will not own their problem.
All people should be allowed to live openly and freely as married if they choose. they should have the same rights as any one in regards to insurance, taxes and ownership..Take the god, bible thing out and open your eyes.
As many of you know I went through a dreadful time last month, starting the week before June 12th…..I mentioned my dear friend had passed from cancer. A side note was my computer was down… What none here knew was my friend Michael was and is like a brother to me and I miss him terribly. Michael was gay. I mention it here only because it’s relevent to this subject….He was a wonderful spirit of kindness, a good friend, nonjudgmental, very well educated and humerious..He gave me this computer along with insight to how truly good someone can be..Before I knew him he was a Sufi priest, while I knew him he was a conducter in a lutheren church and he composed some beautiful music..Very few people knew he was gay and he and I spoke of polatics and relegion’s all the time…..As long as the bible thumpers continue their way’s they will have followers to their fear based junk. I”m not going to buy it , and I’m not selling it either…Do as you choose, stay closed minded if that’s you thing, just remember (old Sharon ) said, stop the bigotry, hate and fear. It creates war and stop’s your learning process….Get class back in your life, show dignety in your thought process…..Blessings Peace is the answer…..Soap box over and out.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:23 pmRe: 184 –
it’s immaterial whether you’re decision was equivalent to being between heaven and hell.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:25 pmThe fact is that you agree that you made a decision. Why were you even in this position of making a decision? Humans make decisions when they are confronted with the necessity to choose between alternatives, and to find yourself in the act of making this decision necessarily (logically) entails that you were actively considering both alternatives for yourself. Right? After all, I don’t choose between driving the Honda or driving the Subaru if the only car available to me is a Honda, yes?
Daryll:
I can’t help but notice you’ve completely ignored my question. I’ll ask again:
Do you have any objective evidence that the Bible is the literal and direct word of God?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:26 pmHere’s a link to a “Kid in the Hall” sketch, featuring Darrill aka Daryll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b9tJVOR7UA&mode=related&search=
July 20th, 2006 at 4:29 pmAs a “practicing Christian” – and a devout one, I feel that anyone
July 20th, 2006 at 4:29 pmwho believes in the literal Bible, Torah, or Koran has a psychological disorder -
Now, we do know for other reasons that James “The Doctor” Dobson is clinically nuts, but for anyone to take him seriously is like believeing that George Bush is intelligent – or there are green people who fly around in saucers -
Homophobes – get a life!!
You have no clue about gay people – stick with your boring BIGOTTED low life of your 9-5 madness – keep out of our lives – you will lose this fight and that’s what is sooooo hilarious!
I suppose that’s why the Apostle Paul sent his recommendation of Phoebe, who was head of the Christian community in Cenchreae? And that’s probably why Priscilla likely was responsible for founding the Church in Rome, along with Aquila?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:34 pmSorry guys, I have one last long post. I promise this will be my last.
Darryl:
Let me start out by saying that there is a difference between The Ten Commandments and Levitical Law. The Ten Commandments are found in the book of Exodus and did not mention homosexuality. Homosexuality was proscribed under Levitical Law, found, ironically, in the book of Leviticus. Do you know the difference between the two? It is not inconsequential. The first was a set of ten universal laws that were to be followed by all people regardless of race, creed, tribe or religion. These laws have been universally accepted, throughout history, and by all people. They are found in every religious tradition from Judaism to Buddhism to Hinduism to Wicca. They have also been the basis for all civil laws, universally, throughout history, up to the modern day. The second (Levitical) was a set of dozens of strictures and prohibitions exclusively directed to the 12 tribes of Israel (Jews) and specifically intended to set them apart from other peoples. These strictures and prohibitions (except for the one on homosexuality) are almost completely ignored today, except to some extent by the most orthodox of Jews, and are seldom found (outside of Iran and other countries with Shia Law) codified into modern civil law (once again, except for the one on homosexuality).
You and others righteously cite Lev. 18:22 (man shall not lie with man…) to make your case, however, as is common with arguments like yours, you intentionally do not acknowledge, refer to or discuss any of the MANY other Levitical prohibitions to which neither you (I would bet) nor 99% of modern Jews ascribe.
Would you deny that the first couple of chapters in Leviticus explain, in great detail, which people are acceptable to enslave and the proper, God-approved methods by which one buys, sells, trades, inherits and treats these slaves? Do you follow these rules in the administration of your slaves? Do you believe it’s OK to own slaves as long as you follow the rules in Leviticus? If not, why not?
Do you deny that there are proscriptions against the mixing of fabrics like cotton, linen and wool, in clothing (or the wearing of such cloth) or the mixing of crops like corn, wheat and butterbeans in the same field? Do you think that this is applicable today? Do you follow these laws? If not, why not?
Do you work, play, walk, bathe, cook, travel or have sex on the Sabbath (which is Saturday, NOT Sunday by the way)? Do you realize that it is an abomination before God and is punishable by death? Do you keep this law? If not, why not?
Would you agree that right there in the same couple of chapters with the homosexual reference, there is a proscription against eating anything that lives in the water that does not have fins AND scales? Do you realize that Leviticus clearly states that shellfish AND pork are an abomination? Do you eat shark, eel, catfish, shrimp, oysters, lobster, clams, bacon and/or pork chops? Have you ever touched a football or any of the things listed above? If so, why?
As you are well aware, I am not making this stuff up. Nor am I twisting the words or exaggerating the meaning of these Levitical laws. I don’t claim to follow them and I doubt that you honestly could either. So why do you NOT talk about these verses when you talk about Levitical sins? Is Lev. 18:22 the only verse that’s still applicable today?
Why did you not include ANY of these other contextual verses in your eloquent statement about why homosexuality is a sin? Have you ever gone onto the comments section of any blog to point out any of the sins listed above and how you felt about them, as you did here with homosexuality? If not, why not?
Let me save you the trouble of answering the above questions. Do you keep these laws? No you don’t. Why? As you hinted at above: Because Christ came to replace the Levitical Laws and offer you salvation through grace and the gift of His sacrifice. Here’s the part that you seem to have missed in all of this: This deal isn’t exclusively for you and doesn’t only refer to certain cherry picked Levitical Laws. If it applies to one of the Levitical Laws, it applies to ALL of them and if it applies to one person then it applies to ALL people who accept His sacrifice.
Is it at all possible that you are trying to hold one group of people to selective parts of an ancient set of tribal prohibitions while ignoring all of the other prohibitions in that same set that would apply to you?
Let me make it clear, I don’t blame you or condemn you for doing this. It’s HUMAN nature. Find the one law that you have absolutely no desire to break and make that one the most important and most serious one. This is an ingenious, yet subconscious way of making oneself feel better about his failures in keeping the “lesser†laws that he ignores, denies the existence of, or breaks on a regular basis. That is why men often feel so strongly about extra heinous “sin†of abortion. It’s the “sin†that they know they’ll never commit and therefore it becomes one of the worst ones.
This is EXACTLY why Christ said, “Judge not lest you be so judged†and “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone†and Paul said, “ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.â€
If anyone here keeps ALL of the laws and rules of the Old Testament, and the rest of the Bible, then pick up your stones and hurl away. However, if you are unable, unwilling or unconcerned about keeping, or AT LEAST TRYING to keep, ALL of the rules defined in the Bible, then you should put down your stones and stop beating up certain people with cherry picked verses from the Holy Scriptures.
Finally, let me remind Christians that Christ never chastised or condemned those that the religious leaders of his day called sinners. To the contrary he hung out with those people (to the dismay and anger of the priests). Virtually EVERY time he chastised or condemned someone, or became angry, it was directed at people who were religious leaders: Religious leaders who considered themselves to be pious and righteous and who sat in judgment of others. Christ OFTEN spoke of the sin of enforcing, and feeling the need to adhere to, strict and cumbersome religious Levitical laws. He made it clear that these laws were being misused by religious leaders to control, and take advantage of, people. Sound familiar? He said that He came to replace the Levitical Law with a new covenant, “Love the Lord your God, with all your heart, mind and spirit and Love your neighbor as yourself.†As a Christian, when it comes to differences between Levitical Law, or the letters of Paul, and the words of Christ, I go with the Big Guy every time. It’s that simple.
To those who don’t follow or believe in Christ this may sound whacky. However, I doubt many people would have issue with His message of Love, Peace, Compassion and Charity. All the rest of the crap that’s been heaped onto the Christian faith is “religionâ€, which I define as, “the hijacking and misuse of spirituality by a self-appointed few to control the masses.†This human hijacking of spirituality is not exclusive to Christianity. We have seen how Muslim extremists have hijacked their beautiful, peaceful religion in order to control their people and justify their evil. To me the rape of spirituality by religion is the GREATEST sin of all!
July 20th, 2006 at 4:35 pmIt wouldn’t surprise me one bit to find that Dobson likes being on all “fours” mooing for some big “Daddy” giving him the pole vault -
July 20th, 2006 at 4:36 pmPlease forgive, through my selfish tears of my friend and brothers passing I want to shar a tiny true moment we shared often.. Michael and I went out to eat at diffrent restraunts all the time and we people watched. Not in the critical sence. It was a joke for us, usualy we would end up picking the same good looking guy and my parting shots always were he would probably get the guy…..I love you Michael…. Blessings
July 20th, 2006 at 4:38 pmDamn, i was hoping Daryll was Bar/Neil, giving us a ration of shit, but apparently it’s not. Daryll being a real person is a more scary thought than being embarassed by being played as a fool.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:42 pmDo you have any objective evidence that the Bible is the literal and direct word of God?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — July 20, 2006 @ 4:26 pm
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Read II Peter 1:20-21 brother.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:42 pmSharon,
The longer we live, the more joy and heartache we gather. Peace…
July 20th, 2006 at 4:44 pmI suppose that’s why the Apostle Paul sent his recommendation of Phoebe, who was head of the Christian community in Cenchreae? And that’s probably why Priscilla likely was responsible for founding the Church in Rome, along with Aquila?
Comment by Obliterati — July 20, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
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That was the Old Testament. Read II Corinthians 13:17. Female phophets exist, but not preachers.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:47 pmThe so-called Reverend James Dodson was trained as a child psychologist and received his Ph.D. at the University of Southern California, where he attended for free as a son of a USC professor. His so-calle Christian psychology of marriage and child rearing is based on his own highly personal interpretation of a religious mission, not on theology or current medical research. He believes that God speaks to him personally. That’s just fine! Lots of schizophrenics believe the same thing! I’m not really sure how Dr. Dobson managed to land a job as an associate clinical professor of pediatrics at the USC School of Medicine and the Los Angeles Children’s Hospital in the Divisions of Child Development and Medical Genetics, but both hospitals cut him loose long ago in the 1970s as a less than credible authority on child psychology. A review of his employment records might be highly embarrassing to this man who suffers from ego mania and a kind of homophobia that was most likely influenced by his own father’s moral extremism. In his books, Dr. Dobson seems to have arguments with God, his own father, society at large, and any other religion than his own Dobsonian brand. Is this just radical American individualism, or a pop psychology for sick minds?
We would all benefit immensely if Dr. Dobson could realize that he has NOT been appointed or annointed by God, his father, or anyone, to preach! Like so may traveling salesmen from the Bible Belt, his evangelism knows no limits. And he will sell his sorry wares until he drops dead or has his ghastly tongue cut out. One can only hope his presence would be diminished sooner than later.
r4la
July 20th, 2006 at 4:52 pmWow, Zeke, I’m humbled. That was a heckuva exegesis (you’ll pardon the expression) on Christianity. Well said.
Here’s another issue I find rather amusing. Though Christian Conservatives (imagine me making those little quotation marks in the air when I say “Christian”) love to cite Leviticus’ injunction against men laying with men, they always seem to forget the story of Onan. You know, the guy who sinned by “spilling his seed on the ground.” And how did God punish Onan for his, um, Onanism? Onan was killed. (See Genesis 38:9-10.)
So, if you deserve death for engaging in gay sex, wouldn’t you likewise deserve death for masturbating? Yet no one seems to advocate outlawing jacking-off. I wonder why?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:52 pmDaryll:
The Qu’ran also says that it is the one and only word of God (Allah). Do you also believe this to be true?
You earlier stated that the New Testament condemned slavery. I must say you clearly are not as familiar with the Bible as you would have us believe. Paul spoke extensively of the slaves duty to his master and the master’s obligations to his slaves. If you care to disagree I will provide chapter and verse. Otherwise I think you should clarify your statement.
Additionally Paul spoke of many prohibitions that we, especially women, don’t follow today. Paul seemed to show his humanity by adding laws and rules back to Christ’s gift. I guess he felt that Christ left something out of His message when He came to save mankind. Somehow, I don’t believe that.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:53 pmWow, Zeke, I’m humbled. That was a heckuva exegesis (you’ll pardon the expression) on Christianity. Well said.
Here’s another issue I find rather amusing. Though Christian Conservatives (imagine me making those little quotation marks in the air when I say “Christianâ€) love to cite Leviticus’ injunction against men laying with men, they always seem to forget the story of Onan. You know, the guy who sinned by “spilling his seed on the ground.†And how did God punish Onan for his, um, Onanism? Onan was killed. (See Genesis 38:9-10.)
So, if you deserve death for engaging in gay sex, wouldn’t you likewise deserve death for masturbating? Yet no one seems to advocate outlawing jacking-off. I wonder why?
Comment by Dave von Ebers — July 20, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
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Masturbating is wrong.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:58 pm#42 WC > More fabrications….
“But in Scandanavia, the legalization of gay marriage has caused heterosexual couples to wait until after the birth of their second child to get married.”
“The previous news was brought to you by a citizen in my community…”
Hmmm…My guess is this tidbit was brought to you by one of the dozens of geographically-challenged folks I’ve met who think Sweden and Switzerland are the same country.
The ‘citizen’ in question is blowing smoke. More false, but oh-so-important-sounding, statistics (if you can call that a statistic). First, gay marriage has NOT been legalized in Scandinavia. Not in Sweden, Norway or Denmark. We have civil unions, or “registered partnerships.” These do carry the same legal rights and benefits of marriage, BUT they are not church-recognized marriages. Hence, the different terminology. Second, being a daily reader of the Swedish press, I have neven run into anything about hetero couples timing their marriages according to number of children due to gay couples’ civil unions. Sheesh.
I can just hear the dinner conversations across Scandinavia: “Gee, Lena, the gays are getting hitched now. That means we better wait until after little Frida and Anders are born to get married…”
The other thing – it’s entertaining (in an eye-rolling way) how the American Right couldn’t give a damn about how anyone anywhere else in the world does anything – until there’s a statistic that might work for them (okay, or a dollar to be made).
FYI – North Americans usually think of Scandinavia as some kind of unopposed liberal haven. Well, we have our share of bigots and homophobes, too. When the legislation on registered partnerships was being debated, the Christian right pitched a hissy fit up North, too. Fortunately, they hadn’t infiltrated the various parliaments to the extent they have in the US. Gay pride parades in Sweden deal annually with the issue of neo-nazis, who in past years have even physically attacked. In Scandinavia we generally end up “doing the right thing” at the public policy level, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t opposition and sometimes hard work to get there. People are people.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:00 pmOkay, Daryll, then don’t masturbate. Fine by me. I just don’t see any movement to outlaw it, or to discriminate against those who do. And that’s pretty funny, if you ask me.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pmZeke – you are brilliant!!
That was a moving testament of what it means to be Christian -
July 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pmthank you.
Reply to #198 (Daryll):
Read II Peter 1:20-21 brother.
For the biblically challenged, here’s the text of 2 Peter 1:20-21 (New International Version):
So let me get this straight…the objective evidence that the Bible is the literal and direct word of God is a passage within that selfsame Bible?
But how do we know that this passage is true? Oh…that’s right…it is because the Bible is the literal and direct word of God…which we know because this passage says so…
See the problem yet, Daryll?
This is what we in the trade call begging the question (also known as a ‘circular argument’). It may seem correct, but it is not logically sound.
Can you provide any objective evidence that the Bible is the literal and direct word of God that does not include the Bible itself?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:02 pmBUT MALE DOGS HUMP EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:04 pmIf you put straight men all on an island and straight women all on an island, they’d all die out too. What’s your point?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:11 pmI know being gay isn’t a choice from my own personal experience. But for the sake of argument, so what if it was? Why deny people civil liberties based on the choices they make? What other choices should be condemned? Being a lawyer? Owning a gun? Having 5 children you can’t afford? Where is the line?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:14 pmAnd what part of 2 consensual adults is so confusing to opponents of gay marriage?
When I went through rough times in college and even now, I would pray and Jesus would instruct and mend me through his word. In order to understand what I’m talking about you would need to have a closer walk/intimate relationship with god. Those are the scriptures that brought me through the storm and proved that I could make it in life. The holy spirit/holy ghost works in mysterious ways. I can’t provide objective evidence, but my life and everything that I’ve been through is proof that the word is real. If you’ll read Revelations, there are a lot of scripture that have occured. I would love for your to receive the baptism and Holy Ghost. Then you would understand what I’m talking about (Acts 2:38). Lord I love you!!!!
July 20th, 2006 at 5:17 pmTOUCHE Jason!!!
It’s amazing how these trivial little details seem lost on them.
Maybe Daryll was accounting for the Blessed Virgin being one of the women on his “women only” island.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:19 pmI’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:13 pm
If you put straight men all on an island and straight women all on an island, they’d all die out too. What’s your point?
Comment by Jason — July 20, 2006 @ 5:11 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
That marriage is meant for a man and woman. Men or women (alone) can’t reproduce. Marriage was never meant for homosexuals. How can they have a family naturally (without commiting fornication with the other gender) when their bodies don’t allow them to. The reason why is because it’s biblically incorrect.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:24 pmHey Daryll:
I’ve been baptised once, when I was several weeks old -
July 20th, 2006 at 5:26 pmI don’t need a perverted “wanna be” minister throwing water on me -
a real priest, yes – a few weeks after birth -
but a Bible nut – no
….plus…. I was already born – I don’t think it would be that pleasent
being born again – would really challenge the birth canal for a 190 lb amn to be pushed through -
TOUCHE Jason!!!
It’s amazing how these trivial little details seem lost on them.
Maybe Daryll was accounting for the Blessed Virgin being one of the women on his “women only†island.
Comment by Zeke — July 20, 2006 @ 5:19 pm
_________________________________________________________________________________
Also, stop calling Mary the blessed Virgin. She was a vessel used by god in order for him to come on earth in the form of a man. She isn’t Jesus’ mother. Jesus has no mother.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:29 pmThis is my brother Daryll and my other brother Daryll.
GD! You are a retard.
This nations laws are not based on the Bible.
#194 – The Bible condemns homosexuality in a few different places. Not just Leviticus. It’s also in the New Testament.
…And there should be a constitutional amendment banning it?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:32 pmDaryll -
Mary is the BLESSED MOTHER – Mother of God -
July 20th, 2006 at 5:32 pmthats the FACT -
Speaking of vessels, someone needs to put you on a vessel
and send it to Iran.
Hey Daryll:
I’ve been baptised once, when I was several weeks old -
I don’t need a perverted “wanna be†minister throwing water on me -
a real priest, yes – a few weeks after birth -
but a Bible nut – no
….plus…. I was already born – I don’t think it would be that pleasent
being born again – would really challenge the birth canal for a 190 lb amn to be pushed through –
Comment by James Sullivan — July 20, 2006 @ 5:26 pm
_______________________________________________________________________________
You misunderstood the term “born again”. This means going down in the water, in the name of Jesus, for the remission of your sins and receiveing the holyghost (speaking in tongues as the spirit gives utterance). Sprinkling water saying “hail Mary full of grace” is incorrect. Read Acts 2:38 and the book of John.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:35 pmBeing a Christian is a lifestyle choice.
Yet it is protected as a right in our constitution.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:37 pmUh, the reason 2 men or 2 women can’t have a baby together is because it’s biologically impossible, not because of anything the Bible says.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:38 pmThis is my brother Daryll and my other brother Daryll.
Anytime you’re ready, please bring your bible. I have numerous scriptures for you and everyone else. Jesus loves you and I do too brother/sister
GD! You are a retard.
This nations laws are not based on the Bible.
#194 – The Bible condemns homosexuality in a few different places. Not just Leviticus. It’s also in the New Testament.
Masturbating is wrong.
…And there should be a constitutional amendment banning it?
Comment by Jason — July 20, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
The laws should be based off of biblical scripture. That’s why there’s turmoil in society.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:39 pmDaryll:
I’m going to assume that post #212 is directed at me, and answer accordingly:
When I went through rough times in college and even now, I would pray and Jesus would instruct and mend me through his word.
I understand. I pray quite a bit myself…and more often than not, Jesus will point me in the direction I need to go.
In order to understand what I’m talking about you would need to have a closer walk/intimate relationship with god.
I’m not disputing your relationship with God, and I’m not ridiculing it, either. As I find myself saying often, “I have no problem with God…I just don’t trust anyone who works for Him.”. By this I mean organized religion, who are the people who wrote that Bible you hold in such high regard.
I can’t provide objective evidence
The only correct answer. Thank you.
but my life and everything that I’ve been through is proof that the word is real.
Again, I won’t dispute your relationship with God…my only dispute is against those who would claim that their holy book was penned directly by Him.
If you’ll read Revelations, there are a lot of scripture that have occured.
It’s very easy to interpret that scripture any way you wish, just as it is easy to interpret any scripture in any way you wish…which is exactly why unquestioning belief in the literal words of the Bible is so dangerous.
I would love for your to receive the baptism and Holy Ghost.
Been there once already (raised Roman Catholic), and plan to again soon (my wife and I are Nazarene). Thanks for your concern, though.
Honestly, my only beef here is that certain people (some well-meaning, some otherwise) start interpreting the Bible in a certain fshion, and then set out to force others to interpret it in the same manner. While I consider myself a fairly good Christian, I really don’t get into the whole evangelical thing…my personal belief is that I have enough trouble trying to follow God’s Word…I’m not really qualified to try to enforce it. Personally, I try to Witness through my actions rather than my words.
If I recall correctly, Jesus left us with only two commandments:
If people would concern themselves more with just these two, the world would be a markedly better place.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:39 pmDaryll:
Do you own slaves? Your logic seems to point in that direction -
July 20th, 2006 at 5:40 pm#171, Zeke,
You are correct – your terminology is better. While trying to make a different point, I was careless with my language, but I believe my point is still clear.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:43 pmThen what’s the big deal?
Why are we having this argument?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:45 pmWhat if I hate myself?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:46 pmShe isn’t Jesus’ mother. Jesus has no mother.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 5:29 pm
This is a heresy -Mary is the mother of God.
How can [homosexuals] have a family naturally (without commiting fornication with the other gender) when their bodies don’t allow them to.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 5:24 pm
This also applies to infertile couples -should there be a law banning the marriage of a person who cannot conceive?
July 20th, 2006 at 5:47 pmOops, I thought you said that the laws should NOT be based on scripture because it creates turmoil. That would have made sense. I totally got blinded by the illogic.
I see you don’t have much in common with the people who founded this country and wrote the constitution. They KNEW that it was wrong to base the laws of society on the Bible. They did their best to make sure that this didn’t happen.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:48 pmDear Darryl – I’m a Christian and you have your head up your ass. It’s people like you that give us all a bad name. Our #1 goal on this earth is to love. Love your neighbor, love your enemy, love the person that abuses you, and love the gay couple next door. It will all get sorted out on it’s own soon enough. The Bible is a tool — not a literal document. The earth wasn’t created in 7 days. There was no serpent or apple. Jesus is the ultimate teacher and I believe him to be the Son of God. But Jesus was the ultimate liberal, the ultimate forgiver, and if he were on earth today I’m betting he would be f’ing pissed at the bad rap that the Republicans and modern day church have given him. Worry about yourself and your own life. Stop trying to make choices for everyone else. And please stop telling people you’re a Christian. It’s embarrassing.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:51 pmNo no, they can do in vitro fertilization and create frozen embryos that will later be destroyed instead of finding cures for diseases.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:51 pmI for one will go. I wouldn’t want to be dogpiled like Darryl and there are too many people arguing with one.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:54 pmTo all who post to Daryll:
Stop engaging this nutbag – he is obviously mentally handicapped and I think
it is cruel to taunt the handicapped -
I am done being critical (after this post)- and I am not name calling -
I’m serious -
He has been brainwashed beyond return -
If you think you can reason with a Hale Bop mentality -
keep posting to him- I’m done -
Darryl – I will pray to the Blessed Mother for your deliverance from the
July 20th, 2006 at 6:01 pmcrazy “spirit” which has infected your God given mind -
I lied, I have one more long post,
Daryll,
I don’t doubt for one moment that what you say about your experience is true. I just don’t understand why you don’t believe that I had EXACTLY the same experience and I am a gay man (not only in college with God, but also at 9 years old with the Sears catalog). That is what you still don’t seem to understand, as is evidenced by your dozens of argumentative and circular logic (a says that b is true, be says that c is true, c says that a is true; therefore a MUST be true) posts. No one wants to deny you your relationship with God. I certainly don’t. But you seem intent in sitting in judgement about MY relationship with OUR God. I really wish I could get to know you in person. You seem like a genuinely kind and loving person. I just feel that you are being restictive in your understanding of the grace, love and infinite understanding of Christ. This is most certainly due to your background, teaching and personal experience. I probably have had a similar background. It was the greatest day in my life when God spoke to my heart with all the power and revelation of Saul’s road to Damascus experience. I had a vail lifted from my heart and my eyes. I began to stop fearing people who were different from me. That was a really hard thing to do, having been raised in a VERY conservative fundamentalist Christian family in rural Mississippi. You are still, to some extent (if you realize it or not) feeling that God’s grace and Christ’s sacrifice isn’t good enough and we must still earn some portion of our salvation. I pray that you will one day find the faith and godly wisdom to let go of the small stuff and put your faith and trust in OUR Lord. Once you do that, you will live the life that God wants you to live and you won’t feel such guilt everytime you “miss the mark” (the definition of sin). You will also learn to concern yourself less with other peoples’ actions and concern yourself more with their hearts and the gifts and blessings that they bring to the table.
I once lived my daily life struggling with all of the rules. I carried the Bible with me always. I beat people over the head with my RELIGION but never concerned myself with their real needs. NEVER, not one single time, during this period did ANYONE ever walk up to me and say, “Wow, I’ve watched how you, how you treat people, seen your joy; What is it that you have, because I want some of it!” I realized that the fact that people didn’t see Christ in me wasn’t because THEY were blind, It was because I was. I was blind to the fact that I was working myself to death trying to keep the rules and “witness” but I wasn’t living my life in such a way that others saw Christ in me, even if I never opened my mouth. Since my apiphany I live my life so much more clearly in Christ’s way. I now OFTEN have people ask me why I always have such peace and joy. I have the great pleasure of sharing my faith and my Christ with them without the slightest need to force it upon them. I have brought many more souls to Christ by living my witness than I ever did by preaching it.
Daryll, my brother in Christ, when was the last time that someone came up to you out of the blue, asked what you had and said they wanted some of it? If it doesn’t happen often then you might want to question your witness. I don’t question your faith, sincerity or salvation but I hope you will consider that there are many revelations from the Bible and other Holy Texts. The most important thing to remember however is: GOD IS STILL SPEAKING! This is the message of my church, The United Church of Christ and it is SO true. Don’t limit yourself to the message of OUR the Still Speaking God by blinding yourself with 5,000 year old tribal proscriptions. When you open your eyes and your heart to this revelation you will concern yourself almost exclusively with the things that Christ commanded: feeding the poor, aiding the sick, working for peace and sharing the LOVE of God. At the same time you will feel no need to judge people for what you feel is their sins. If you can point out a single case in which Christ commanded us to concern ourselves with our brother’s sins (as you have done for hours today) I will take back everything I have just said.
Forgive grammar, spelling and typos. I’m getting tired.
Peace
July 20th, 2006 at 6:06 pmThis demarcation between gay and straight is JUST NUTS!
Who cares?
Most people have some of both and those who spend their time obsessing over the sexual behavior of others have serious emotional and social problems. It is a personal choice – how to live, how to engage in sex.
People like Dobson and his fellow closet cases – Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Burke P Shade of the Cornerstone Reform Evangelical Church (my minster neighbor who insists all gay people are pedophiles), assorted members of the Bush administration, etc., have always been around, but the power they’ve gained and the attention they’re getting is the outcome of the creeping totalitarianism – okay GALLOPING CORPORATE totalitarianism that has dismantled everything decent in America for 25 years, every since the Reagan pack of right wing loonies got hold of the apparatus of federal government and began restoring the confederacy in earnest, trading arms to Iran and bargaining with them to keep our people hostage, violently overthrowing central american governemnts, ignoring AIDS, burying the real issues, robbing the treasury.
While the public focuses attention on gay marriage and gay genes and repulsive secret queens who probably wear their mom’s girdles, like Dobson, and cowers in fear from the terrorist menace, the one Bush has whipped into a real threat with his illegal wars and occupations, the right wing thieves are busy restructuring the entire economy to cut everyone out of it but them and enrich themselves even more.
The homophobic caterwauling is a distraction from the class war.
July 20th, 2006 at 6:36 pmOh, where to start with this moron…
> 187.
1. “Gay†means happy and carefree. The word you are looking for is “homosexualâ€. Quit ruining our language with your inappropriate connotations.
Right, because words in languages NEVER take on new meanings or evolve, do thay?
2. Homosexuals already have the same right to marry as heterosexuals.
Yeah, and if they legalized same-sex marriage heterosexuals would have the same right to marry someone of the same gender as gay people would, so everyone wins. Idiot.
3. Stop trying to make people accept your life style and people will leave you alone.
Stop trying to justify your intolerant hate by making us out to be the agressors.
4. Homosexuality is a choice, just like overeating, smoking, child abuse, murder, and other destructive behaviors. Regardless of tendencies or desires, no one requires homosexuals to practice the lifestyle any more than murderers are required to kill.
And no one requires heterosexuals to practice THEIR desires eiher, do they? Do you even see how utterly stupid your argument is?
July 20th, 2006 at 6:58 pmMost important is that Dobson, et.al. are spouting phony information which has no scientific medical validity, including being x-gay. Sexual identity is determined in the fetal stage, and is partially genetic and partially hormonal. One can not change sexual identity anymore than they can change being right or left handed or blue to brown eyes. It is not a choice and this can best be proven by asking yourself if you ever consciously made a choice to be heterosexual? Of course not. It was inborn. For the real scoop, go to these sites http://www.borndifferent.org and fallwell.com which cite the Medical Scientific Findings on sexuality and how to learn about it. AFA, FRC, and the rest are giving out false, misleading, harmful, libelous propaganda that does intentional harm to a valid , normal, natural group of equal paying citizens who not only deserve recognition for who they are, but also equal civil rights. And finally, one has to ask oneself, why in hell they are so dedicated to condeming people they don’t understand or agree with. Who the hell are they to judge?
July 20th, 2006 at 7:05 pmI’m happy these ignorant people are still talking about this. The more they talk, the more inane their comments, the more people get sick to death of hearing about it, the more people just say shut up y’all and leave gay people alone. Gays have always been the underdogs in society, and now with these bigots out in full force trying with all their might to put gay people down, sympathy is swaying toward gay people. Good people generally don’t like to see someone kicked when they’re down. Keep talking bigots. All you do is help the cause for gay people to finally win equal rights in this country.
July 20th, 2006 at 7:33 pmMy dog sits around all day and licks his own balls. Should I be able to?
July 20th, 2006 at 8:26 pmRe (mostly) 194 &202:
I am an ordained Baptist minister and pastoral psychotherapist who grew up very fundamentalist. The Baptist congregation of which I am a member accepts gay and lesbian folk, blesses their unions, ordains them, and welcomes their participation and leadership in our congregation.
I have appreciated in large measure this discussion.
I was once very much like Darryl and it took a long time of careful study; paying attention to the Bible, Christian tradition, other faiths, sceptics, history, science, literature, art, music; actually being with others of different ethnicity, race, religion, socioeconomic status, gender identity, sexual preference to come to have a broader, deeper appreciation of diversity and to have a richer, deeper understanding of God as I currently conceive of, understand, relate to Him/Her.
I did not grow much through argument. I was too defensive to let anything challenging into my consciousness. I don’t think direct argument with Darryl is very useful.
I don’t really have time or the inclination to get too terribly involved in this discussion except to make an sort of tangential comment on the aspect of the discussion related to the Levitical laws so thoroughly discussed by Zeke in post # 184 and augmented by Dave in #204.
In many of the discussions of this type I have heard the argument made by Zeke about the many prohibitions and abominations like shellfish, mixed fabrics, men lying with men, etc. I was amused by Dave’s addition of the references to masturbation.
But my favorite prohibition in the enumeration of Levitical prohibitions is that found in
Lev. 25:35-38:
And if your brother becomes poor, and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall maintain him; as a stranger and a sojourner he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or increase, but fear your God: that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit. I am the LORD your God who brought you forth out of the land of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God. (RSV)
The prohibition is against lending money at interest or taking profit for the sale of food!
This prohibition also appears in Ex. 22:24-26 and Dt. 23:19-20.
The Deuteronomic passage reads:
You shall not lend upon interest to your brother, interest on money, interest on victuals, interest on anything that is lent for interest. To a foreigner you may lend upon interest, but to your brother you shall not lend upon interest; that the LORD your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
(Incidentally, there is substantial attention given in adjoining passages for the hospitable and humane treatment even of foreigners.)
These passages are seldom ever quoted in this argument by the left or the right. If you take them seriously, they are a stunning indictment an unregulated capitalist economy that sees no responsibility for the common good and operates on the accumulation of wealth via interest.
If you read carefully these passages in context, you will find that the Old Testament God, and not just Jesus, has marked bleeding-heart liberal tendencies!
July 20th, 2006 at 9:11 pmWhat so many Christians forget is that the Bible is intended only for believers. Jesus told his disciples to go and “teach” the word, not to force it on anyone. He told them to “kick the dust” off their sandals and leave if the person did not accept the word. He did tell them to seek political laws to enforce the word.
I’ve been hesitating to reveal this, but here goes. I am a psychologist and I think Dobson is disgraceful and should have his licensed to practice revoked.
July 20th, 2006 at 9:12 pmIt’s true, dogs aren’t born mooing. On the other hand, raise your hand if a dog has ever tried to hump your leg.
Perhaps that wasn’t the best example, Mr. Dobson?
July 20th, 2006 at 9:58 pmWow,
so some people claim to follow the bible and they want legal marriage to be biblical? Ok, then. Let’s start with what the Lord himself blessed as marriage.
I KINGS 11:3
And he (Solomon) had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines:
2 Samuel 12:8 where God told David that instead of stealing another man wife away from him and killing him, that he should have prayed to God and ask for as many women as he wanted and God would have given him as many women as he wanted, as long has he did not steal and betray another man by stealing his wife
Marriage was a legal transaction between men, and since women were inferior to men they needed to bribe the groom’s father by giving him sheep, cattle or cash for taking her from him. Women were property! and marriage was never a love union as we know it today.
Boys as young as 12 were legally allowed to buy as many wives as he could support.
So if you are a bible believing Christian, you should follow all laws that the God of the bible gave for you to follow, after all YOU are the BELIEVER.
As far as gay people go, JESUS, the one christianity is founded on, and the one Christians are supposed to follow never said a thing about gay people. He lived in the roman empire where bisexuality was the norm. Shouldn’t you as a Christian be following his example? Shouldn’t you act as Jesus did?
Show me where Jesus went to the Roman parliament to force them to make laws prohibiting gay people from civil marriage, or just show me where he went to the parliament to enforce his teachings in law and create a theology!
One last thing. The bible we have today was written in the 1700’s and from one single document. There are thousands of earlier documents (scriptures) that were left out.
The Gospel of Mark was written 400 years after the death of Jesus…imagine that, and Mathew and Luke copied from Mathew and came up with their own gospel. Lastly John the only one to claim Jesus’ divinity copied from all three of them hundreds of years later and came up with a whole different concept with contradicting details…
July 20th, 2006 at 10:23 pmoh well!
#240
I was also once like Daryll. Because of this, I started to feel compassion for him and changed the tone, and message, of my last poorly written comment. I think he is a good guy at heart and I know where he is coming from. You’re right, he will not learn from being attacked. Hopefully he, as you and I did, will grow in his knowledge through an openminded and openhearted pursuit of the truth.
I too have noticed that the megachurches fail to discuss the Levitical versus which proscribe useury. They also avoid the ones that explain, in great detail, under what circumstances a father can sell his children into slavery.
Heaven help us if the theocrats start passing Levitical Constitutional amendments.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:39 pmMake that usury.
I type faster than I think!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:42 pm#245-Zeke- I just wanted to thank you for all of your great comments today. It was a great pleasure to read such thoughtful, and intelligent comments. And thanks for all of your knowledge, I enjoy learning new things, and education is never a waste. I hope to see you here often!
July 21st, 2006 at 12:14 amFrom Dr. Dobson’s Study: Can Homosexuality Be Treated and Prevented http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021043.cfm
“….the boy’s father has to do his part….He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis just like his, only bigger.â€
Oh Dr. Dobson! Finally, someone understands!
July 21st, 2006 at 2:57 amFrom Dr. Dobson’s Study: Can Homosexuality Be Treated and Prevented http://www.family.org/ docstudy/ newsletters/ a0021043.cfm
“….the boy’s father has to do his part….He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis just like his, only bigger.â€
Isn’t that kinda…creepy and wrong on several levels?
July 21st, 2006 at 3:05 amPost 248 Shin > Dobson must be a pedophile if he takes/took his son into the shower with him, or advocates other men to do that with their sons!
July 21st, 2006 at 4:00 amAll of these arguments back and forth about what God thinks is foolish. If there was a god, and it wanted it’s opinion known, we would all know it. There would be no need for exhaustive study of cryptic writings to divine the will of a god, it would be the most advertised message in all existence, it would be unavoidable, on every tongue, in every mind. A real god wouldn’t have to play the silly games that are the stuff of the world’s religions. Your time would be better spent arguing the rules of Monopoly, because at least it has a verifiable source.
Bottom line is, that at this time, God is unknowable, why? because apparently that’s how God wants it.
July 21st, 2006 at 5:12 am“Yes, God wanted to terminate man, but Jesus died on the cross to save us. ”
Comment by Daryll
“Correct. Isn’t his grace and mercy glorious? ”
Comment by Daryll
Yeah……. Soooooo merciful.
-God: “Humm. I’ve been bored today, I think I’ll create some flawed beings that I can play with. I’ll wait, oh, let’s see, 2000 to 5000 years before I give them some magic book, they they’ll actually write while I wisper in their ears with no witnesses, to tell them the secrets on how to avoid burning in hell. Yeah! That sounds fun! Oh, and the other cool thing to do, how bout I allow them to really screw up the planet, kill each other, develop every flavor of religion they can dream up, but all the while I give them the promise of creating everything anew, washing away their sins. Will I actually do this? Nah, I’ll just let generation after generation think that they are the last and watch their confuded faces when their last breat leaves their body.
At first, I’ll pick an occasional person to talk to, without witnesses, and work a few miracles here and there, but then I’ll just stop and let them pretend that I still do these things. Yeah, that’ll really toy with their little minds! Woo hoo! This is gonna be fun. Oh, and all of the poor schmucks that died before I send my son to die on a cross, sorry suckas! And, if you happen to live in the middle of nowhere, sorry…. you get to burn in hell too! Ha ha ha ha!!!!!
Oh, one more thing. I think I’ll tell everyone that I work in “mysterious” ways so that I’ll always have an excuse for any and every conflicting behavior or message I can dream up! Oh, and I’ll be sure to be “merciful” once in a while too, while at the same time I let nature demolish entire cities just to watch them die and go to hell.
Oh, what fun!!!!!!
July 21st, 2006 at 8:04 amYes, God wanted to terminate man, but Jesus died on the cross to save us. â€
Comment by Daryll
“Correct. Isn’t his grace and mercy glorious? â€
Comment by Daryll
Yeah……. Soooooo merciful.
-God: “Humm. I’ve been bored today, I think I’ll create some flawed beings that I can play with. I’ll wait, oh, let’s see, 2000 to 5000 years before I give them some magic book, they they’ll actually write while I wisper in their ears with no witnesses, to tell them the secrets on how to avoid burning in hell. Yeah! That sounds fun! Oh, and the other cool thing to do, how bout I allow them to really screw up the planet, kill each other, develop every flavor of religion they can dream up, but all the while I give them the promise of creating everything anew, washing away their sins. Will I actually do this? Nah, I’ll just let generation after generation think that they are the last and watch their confuded faces when their last breat leaves their body.
At first, I’ll pick an occasional person to talk to, without witnesses, and work a few miracles here and there, but then I’ll just stop and let them pretend that I still do these things. Yeah, that’ll really toy with their little minds! Woo hoo! This is gonna be fun. Oh, and all of the poor schmucks that died before I send my son to die on a cross, sorry suckas! And, if you happen to live in the middle of nowhere, sorry…. you get to burn in hell too! Ha ha ha ha!!!!!
Oh, one more thing. I think I’ll tell everyone that I work in “mysterious†ways so that I’ll always have an excuse for any and every conflicting behavior or message I can dream up! Oh, and I’ll be sure to be “merciful†once in a while too, while at the same time I let nature demolish entire cities just to watch them die and go to hell.
Oh, what fun!!!!!!
Comment by mgooder — July 21, 2006 @ 8:04 am
________________________________________________________________________________
Blasphemous!!!!!
July 21st, 2006 at 8:42 amEvery single discussion about gay issues on the internet eventually, and often rather quickly, becomes an argument over what the Bible says. The Bible says a lot of crazy shit that most people who proclaim to “believe in it” (how you believe in a book I have no idea, and neither do they) don’t believe, no matter what they say. Most of these dumbasses don’t evey really know what’s actually in the Bible. They cherry pick what suits their prejudices to match their limitations of soul and imagination. It has ALWAYS been this way. Human beings proclaiming their absolutism and hold on THE REVEALED TRUTH acting like idiots. Fear and ignorance fueled by the rantings and ravings of Bronze Age sheepherders.
If we spent as much time arguing the beatitudes as we do all the other historical garbage and cultural claptrap that’s in the Bible, this would very nearly be Paradise.
July 21st, 2006 at 8:50 amWhat Is Your Litmus Test?
By Victor Reyes
Every idea, viewpoint and general way of thinking there is some litmus test. One test that is most common today is “Popular Culture.†What that says, if the people one relates too, if they are on board, it is okay. Another is faith base. Since we are on the topic of being “gay†all the mainstream faith/religions are against it. Doctrinally against it! Yes, there are some out there that are pushing popular culture; almost all the time it is a minority view, in positions of power, that is pushing the agenda for the flock not the other way around.
I have a litmus test that is very consistent, works for me, and it goes like this:
If the viewpoint, principle doctrine, law, cultural leanings, etc., if I do not want to view it, or hear the most minute detail about it, and cannot recommend it to my offspring’s there is a 99.9 percent chance it is not good, healthy or in humanities interest in the short and long of it. Cases in point:
1. Abortions – No one wants to witness an abortion (i.e., a baby’s body parts, a hand, being scratched out of a woman’s womb
2. War – Do not show me dead Americans or body bags of our boys and girls coming home from a war zone. Or do not draft my son or daughter to fight a war
3. Premarital Sex – No problem with my son but “not my daughter.†Do not want to see or hear my daughter is shacking up. So “No†to both sons and daughters – Yours or Mind!
4. Gays, again not my daughter and definitely not my son. Nor do I want to view two men sucking a penis or being penetrated up the anus
5. Gay parents and gay religious leaders leading the flock, not in my family and not in my house of worship. Leadership in our most treasured institutions is subliminally, a position of acceptability and example in life style and in deeds.
This is my litmus test. It works for me.
Victor Reyes
July 21st, 2006 at 11:42 amSo if a dog is born mooing… what do we do with it Dr. Dobson?
Shall we send it to Don’t Moo Camp for dogs and try to force it not to moo? Clearly the dog chose to moo. Society influenced its decision to moo, so this mooing of dogs should be outlawed.
Or, should we accept it for what it is and just treat it like any other dog, letting it moo unperturbed?
Maybe the dog analogy struck a chord with the good doctor.
(I just wanted to run with the analogy – I in no way think being born a homosexual is like a dog being born “mooing”)
July 21st, 2006 at 11:46 am> 254
So basically you’re a closed-minded religious bigot, and that’s your “litmus test”? You do realize that a litmus test is a test using one indicator to deduce your other opinions, and you just randomly listed 5 things you don’t want/like. Are you an idiot, or merely don’t know the definition of words you use?
July 21st, 2006 at 12:31 pmThanks, Andrew, for the inciteful comments (No. 240); and thanks, Zeke, for all your posts. As a liberal Catholic who strongly favors gay rights and equal marriage rights, I have been struggling mightily with these issues. I’ve always loved the United Church of Christ approach – “God is Still Speaking”. I also love their motto, “Don’t put a period where God put a comma.” Too bad my church can’t take a lesson from yours!
Finally, at the risk of shameless self-promotion, see my blog postings on the subject of gay marriage (http://50ampfuse.blogspot.com/2006/06/semantics-matter-on-gay-marriage-and.html) and the anti-gay pogroms in Iran (http://50ampfuse.blogspot.com/2006/04/whats-matter-with-mahmoud-ahmadinejad.html) and Iraq (http://50ampfuse.blogspot.com/2006/05/you-say-you-want-revolution.html).
July 21st, 2006 at 1:39 pmBack in the late 50’s, deep in the heart of Mississippi, an uncle-in-law, who owned one of the best
July 21st, 2006 at 1:58 pmHolstein dairies in that state tried to convince me that blacks and whites shouldn’t associate with
each other just as Holsteins and Jerseys didn’t mix when out in the pasture. Made me laugh then
as it does now. I guess he fogot that Holsteins are black AND white cows without any mixing at
all.
This dog mooing nonsense follows the same kind of idiotic logic if I dare use that word in this
context at all. There’s so much in this world that isn’t black or white but some variation on gray
but if you’re scared to death of uncertainity you’ll strike out in any direction that challenges your
to know that ‘Everything is All Right’.
Sorry – I meant to post these as links:
July 21st, 2006 at 2:30 pmThanks for all the kind words guys. I am truly humbled. God Bless!
July 21st, 2006 at 4:43 pmDave,
You would be most welcome at the UCC if you ever decided to check it out. You wouldn’t even be expected to, or asked to, renounce your Catholicism. My church has members who identify as Catholics, Baptist, Quakers and many other Christian denominations. We also have Muslims and Buddhists who regularly attend our services and functions. We don’t try to convert anyone. We just share what we believe, while acknowledging and celebrating (rather than tolerating) our differences.
I really love the “Never place a period where God has placed a comma…God is Still Speaking.” message of the UCC.
I don’t know if you know the origin of the “comma†statement but I’ll share it with you just in case you’re interested:
Gracie Allen, the wife of George Allen, wrote a letter to her beloved husband when it became clear to her that she would precede him in death. This woman, who was famous for playing the silly, dopey, slapstick wife and sidekick of her husband’s comedy routine, wrote one of the deepest and most beautiful love letters that I have ever read. She realized that she was the center of George’s life and that he would be lost and hopeless without her. With loving kindness she told her husband to not think of the end of her life as the end of his. Her passing, she stated eloquently, would simply be a transition for her AND for him. She implored him to continue living his life with gusto until the time they could be reunited. The final line of her letter said, “Never place a period where God has placed a comma.”
We at the UCC believe this quote is profound so we use it, with all due credit to Gracie, as the logo of our Church. I wear a beautiful red comma lapel pin that draws many inquiries from friends and strangers. I am able to tell the story of Gracie, what the message means and how it relates to my church. It’s really a wonderful conversation starter.
For the first time in my Christian life I am a part of a congregation that I feel truly exudes the message of Christ. We are dedicated to peace with justice and are open and affirming to our gay and lesbian members. We were the first American mainstream denomination to have a female minister, a black minister and a gay minister. We were very active in the abolitionist movement and we are the only mainstream denomination to endorse marriage equality. Not bad for a denomination who traces its roots to the Puritans!
My local congregation’s motto is:
COME AND EXPERIENCE THE LOVE OF GOD WITHOUT THE GUILT OF RELIGION.
Sorry for going so far off topic with this UCC ad. I think the story of Gracie, and the message of the UCC is so beautiful that I like to share them as often as I can; probably even to people who don’t care to hear it. I apologize to anyone who takes offense.
Peace!
July 21st, 2006 at 5:33 pmBlasphemous!!!!!
Comment by Daryll — July 21, 2006 @ 8:42 am
Wow….. What a come back. Sorry, Daryll, you just proved my point entirely.
The typical fundamentalist Christian response to any challenge of their beliefs: “Blasphemous”.
How bout coming out of the dark ages, Daryll. Stop thinking out of fear of going to hell and start applying logic to your beliefs!
July 21st, 2006 at 7:47 pmDaryll:
July 21st, 2006 at 11:48 pmPlease pray to the Blessed Mother that she delivers you rom evil and your “Blasphemous†beliefs – or better yet, get yourself educated sir, so you can argue and discuss with a bit of reason -
Dobson is a major pervert -
July 21st, 2006 at 11:52 pmhe’s disgusting and only weird psychos take him seriously -
he must get off seeing his son naked and get a major thrill showering with his son -
what a pedophile – gross
w
#264 you say that Dobson is perverted?? this coming from you a fag who commits sodomy ?? Hypocrisy is the trademark of liberal stupidom. You fag lovers are not going to be happy until you get to throw Christians to the lions like the sick homos of Rome.
July 23rd, 2006 at 12:17 pmwhat’s next round up all the Bible because it is Hate speech and have a big book burning like hitler? You want to throw in jail all who disagree with your love for all things sick and queer? no wonder people hate fags and the people that support them.
265 >
And better late than never, the always insane ramblings of everyone’s favorite repressed homosexual, moonbat patrol. Quit denying your true feelings and just accept it, hon, you’ll feel better, everyone knows extreme homophobes like you are just lashing out because you’re afraid of your true feelings.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:12 pmnice try asshole but I am not even close to being gay. is this the way you fight for your beloved gay rights? anyone who is against the gay agenda and speaks out is gay?? so you use being gay as slander when you have nothing else. just show the sheer unadulterated stupidity of the gays and their fag friend promoters. no wonder you will never legitimize the sicko-homos in America. you make it so easy . I don’t really have to fight you and prove what hypocritical, close minded bigots you asshole liberals are- you do it all yourselves.
July 23rd, 2006 at 7:39 pm267 >
July 24th, 2006 at 2:10 amSo, hit pretty close to home, did I?
[...] (via Think Progress). … [...]
July 24th, 2006 at 6:12 am# yeah you proved what a slimy liberal hypocrite you are.
July 24th, 2006 at 11:07 amdemanding legitmacy for homos in one breath then using fagness as a denigration in the next proves what schitzo nutjobs you left wingnut homophiles are.
nice try but as usual you liberal -progressives prove once again how utterly stupid and juvenile you all are.
good luck with your homo crusade, you’ll need it.
I nver said there was anything wrong with being gay, why would I when I AM gay, you idiot?
July 24th, 2006 at 2:02 pm“Methinks the lady doth protest too much”
Good lord, I’m sorry I missed out on the action after I signed off on Friday! I am so impressed with Mr. Moonbat I’m nearly speechless. “Stupidom” has to be one of the single greatest put-downs in all history! I never knew I lived in “Stupidom.” Ouch! I guess I’m just a schitzo nutjob slimy liberal hypocrite who loves “fagness.” Damn. Thanks for setting me straight (pun intended), Moonbat.
July 24th, 2006 at 3:03 pmOh, and I’m a “fag lover,” too.
July 24th, 2006 at 3:04 pm#272-273. you are welcome for the lesson in common sense as abviously you have had none until you read my posts. too bad you are a fag lover still. you can get mental help for your affliction tho and be a decent non-fag person if you so choose. you don’t have to be queer unless you choose to be and encouraging people to follow the homo agenda and “lifestyle” is a poor way to live your life. You need the counseling of a good mental health professional to get you out of your life of depression and disgusting sexual practices. You can be helped .
July 24th, 2006 at 6:18 pmI never cease to be amazed at the absolute viciousness and vindictiveness of these folks that call themselves Christian. Their need to be absolutely right; their need to be doubt free; their need to shut you up because you challenge their certainity is absolutely appalling. ‘No chance that I might be wrong, no sirreee Bob’. I’ve got the the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and the rest of you folks that disagree with me ARE GOING TO HELL AND I’LL BE GLAD TO SEE YOU THERE!!!’. So there. And that’s moonbatty and daryll in a nutshell. These are the guys that blow up abortion clinics and shoot abortion doctors and tie gays to fences and beat them to death. Look out folks, the fundagelicals are on the march.
July 25th, 2006 at 8:41 pm275 >
July 25th, 2006 at 11:59 pmPretty much, which is why I like playing with them sometimes. Nutjobs like Moonbat here are fun to sit and push their buttons (and dragging out the proven fact that most extreme homophobes are secretly gay themselves and are just lashing out because they can’t accept it is always fun with their type).
Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” I can see there are two things he said to her. Jesus did not bash (condemn) this woman. He demonstrated real love but Jesus also told her not to go on sinning. We all sin and this causes a spiritual blindness toward God. If I want God in my life I cannot have my sin also. I will hate the things of God and depravity will take over, talk about a real hate crime.
1 Corithians 9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Sexual Immorality
July 26th, 2006 at 7:51 pm12″Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything. 13″Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”–but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body
> 277
July 27th, 2006 at 2:19 pmIt’s be great if religious nutjobs would realize that quoting bible versus amounts to exactly nothing in a rational debate.
Oh, and since I don’t believe in your intolerant, hateful god, I could give a rat’s ass what he does or doesn’t like.
Shin
July 27th, 2006 at 4:46 pmYou don’t sound very rational or tolerant.
Sorry I hurt your feelings.
If I have “safe sex” to protect me from a sexually transmitted disease does this not tell me I am doing something wrong or harmful? This is not love, seems more like Russian Roulette. Yes we are here to love. God gives us free will to choose right and wrong. Love is telling someone when they are doing something wrong.
July 27th, 2006 at 4:55 pmWhy would God create a man to have sex with another man? When I studied physiology in college the text book showed an illustration of a penis inside the vagina and how they were designed to function together during intercourse. Do homosexuals have true intercourse? What is the purpose of sperm and eggs for homosexuals?
July 27th, 2006 at 4:58 pmWhat is the purpose? Nothing, it’s not sex for procreation, it’s sex for pleasure. The very fact that I have to explain this to you shows how truly far gone you are.
July 27th, 2006 at 11:22 pmShin
July 28th, 2006 at 10:35 amYour one answer is half right.You did not answer any of the other questions.
Well, since God didn’t create us, we evolved, the questions concerning that are irrelevant, and the one about “true intercourse” is, quite frankly, insulting. The implication that my relationship isn’t valid because it’s not with a woman is demeaning. You people really aren’t satisfied unless you get to show that gay people are somehow less than human, or that we “chose” to be gay somehow just so you can sit on your self-rightious ass and point and say “Look, infidels!”, thus justifying your bizzare need to persecute everyone that’s different from you.
July 28th, 2006 at 12:33 pmThis is the problem (well, one of MANY problems) with religion: It gives people that “Chosen People” mentality that makes it easier for them to treat other people like dogs (or worse, actually), because you can point at your holy mythology and say “See, God says it’s okay to burn you as a witch!” or the like.
As fun as banging my head against a brick wall is, seeing as I’m the only intelligent person left posting to this thread, I’m moving on. I really have nothing more to add and I’m obviously not going to change anyone’s mind (particularly when they’re products of the Christian brainwashing machine).
Good day.
Christians, so called, are really idol worshipers. They worship a book. They’ll argue with that of course but they’re arguments prove it. No voice from ON HIGH confirms what they have to say so always it’s THE BOOK, THE BOOK, THE BOOK. So despite their claims to the contrary their god is THE BOOK and since THE BOOK was written thousands of years ago and since their god, who’s supposed to know everything, is always being taken by surprise (Adam and Eve in the garden just for starters) it’s no wonder that their god isn’t up to date in the 21st century or has any knowledge of the knowledge humankind has gained in the thousands of years since HIS BOOK was written. And since, apparently, their god hasn’t decided to enlighten them beyond THE BOOK, arguing with these folks is like arguing with a sack of talking hammers: you may get a response but it’s a response that isn’t meaningful. Goodbye dear Fundagelicals. Go look in the mirror and tell yourselves how wonderful you are.
July 28th, 2006 at 1:45 pmJEB & SHIN
July 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pmRemember evolution is a theory. Don’t just buy into everything you read (brainwashed). Christians do ask questions about sexuality. I do not have all the answers like you think. I have a lot of unanswered questions about life. JEB you would think that in the 21st century, with mankind’s knowledge you refer to, people would not be dying from AIDS. One solution to the AIDS epidemic/problem was the “Safe Sex†message. People love each other knowing that they could become very ill to the point of death. Are they not practicing safe sex? Would you call them “enlightened†or a “sack of hammers� I do not worry about sexual disease not because I’m pure or holy. Marriage provides for my needs (companionship, sex, love) and God protects me from harm spiritually and physically in this relationship with my spouse. But that is too shallow and restrictive for those of you that are Wonderfully Enlightened.
Evolution is a ‘theory” only in the sense that NO scientific theories are ever “proven”, because unlike religion, science always leaves room for improvement. They don’t have a pre-determined answer and select facts to fit it the way bogus nonsense like Intelligent Design do.
July 28th, 2006 at 11:12 pmAnd frankly I’d love to get married, but thanks to people like you, “my kind” aren’t allowed that basic human right.
Hey Shin: Don’t buy into everything you read, man. Christians don’t do that so you shouldn’t either. (That’s a joke, man) And from now on I’m not going to do it either. I sure don’t want anybody to think I’ve been brainwashed. Hope you can get married someday too, Shin. Eventually it has to happen that the more sane people in our country/world will be accepting of people as people instead of only people like me/us. But don’t expect Fundagelicals to lead in that. I really think that some of those folks still think the world is flat and the sun revolves around it.
July 29th, 2006 at 7:20 pmSorry PJ. Hope I didn’t hurt your feelings. As far as folks dying from aids goes, you would think that in the 21st century people would have learned to get along with each other but with fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, Hundus, Sikhs and you name it running amok there’s little chance that logic will prevail over deadly religious certainties. Maybe, Shin, if we could round up all the fundamentalist of the various religious and take them wwwaaaaayyyyy out to sea and dump them in the drink so that if they were real good swimmers they could make it back to shore. Otherwise
good-bye. Naw, that sounds too much like a program a cleric of one sort or another might come up with and besides they look so much like normal people, these fundamlentalists, how could you tell if they were telling the truth or not if they said they weren’t fundamentalists?
Shin
You can get married. No one is stopping you.
JEB
July 31st, 2006 at 10:25 amI have been enlightened by your brilliant answers.
You sound very bitter inside. Not good for your health.
Logical Solution to Worlds Problems according to JEB the Temporary Messiah
Forget about Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-ll, Castro etc.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:01 amWe know it is Christians like George Bush that are causing….
I let you fill in the rest genius.
Sane people like me JEB?
July 31st, 2006 at 12:25 pmLogical people like me JEB?
JEB you need some (cult) followers.
JEB
July 31st, 2006 at 12:36 pmYou remind me of this guy backin 64 AD named Nero.
He was very creative/sane like you. He burned christians
to use as evening lights. Maybe your two are related?
Like I said, ‘Sack of hammers’. I rest my case.
August 1st, 2006 at 5:28 amCrooner George Michael, who is scheduled to marry his boyfriend Kenny Goss this year, is embroiled in a new sex scandal. The London tabloids are having a field day because Michael was allegedly caught in the fields with his pants down. Despite damning pictures, right now, Goss is still standing by his man.
GAY DIVORCE SO SOON?
BOSTON (AP) — The lesbian couple whose lawsuit led to legal same-sex marriage in Massachusetts have announced they have separated. “Julie and Hillary Goodridge are amicably living apart,†Mary Breslauer, a longtime gay rights activist, said July 20 on their behalf. Breslauer declined comment on how long they had been separated or whether they would divorce. The Goodridges were among seven gay couples whose lawsuit led the state’s Supreme Judicial Court to rule 4–3 in November 2003 that gay couples had a right under the state constitution to wed. The Goodridges were married May 17, 2004, the first day same-sex marriages became legal under the court ruling, by a Unitarian Universalist minister. A recent Boston Globe survey showed that of more than 8,000 gay couples married as of May, only 45 had filed for divorce.
Proving once again that homosexuals are no different than anybody else, Massachusetts’ first same-sex marriage has fallen to pieces after less than 18 months.
“Julie and Hillary Goodridge are amicably living apart,” Mary Breslauer, a local political consultant.
It was the Goodridges’ successful suit against the Massachusetts Department of Health that won gays the right to marry in the commonwealth.
Our culture has already weakened the marriage relationship by allowing easy divorce. Now it wants to redefine marriage in an effort to try to legitimize sexual perversion.
The modern man says there is no God. We can have sex with who or what we want.
I recall one Barbara Walter’s TV show about a homosexual couple with kids. It showed them in a relaxed environment (happy home). She asked various questions of the couple and kids about what it is like to have two daddies or mommies all with great concern. I would have ask them how will they explain the “Birds and Bees” to the kids. Is there a homosexual version with included safe sex pamphlet? The show then flashed some stock footage/clips of Rev. Phelps and his “God hates fags” family that are suppose to represent Christians. Get the message. Christians are the hateful ones. This is typical of the media.
The marriage that homosexuals want to define is a counterfeit version. It will look just like the real thing on the outside.
JEB
August 1st, 2006 at 2:38 pmTorture any Christains lately?
James Dobson is a complete douchebag.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:11 pmJames Dobson is a wonderful family man. He cares about people.
August 14th, 2006 at 11:40 amThe only thing Dobson is interested in is his own opinion and getting his own way.
August 20th, 2006 at 4:33 pmOh, and his cult following. People like PJ for example.
Bye the bye, PJ, I had barbecued Christian for lunch today. Not bad with a little bit of extra selsa.
Hay Daryll If the bible says that Homosexuality is wrong?
Then lets take a look at the other thing that will send you to hell in addition to Homosexuality.
1 don’t plow the edges of you’re felid.
2 don’t eat bacon.
3 no left overs more than 2 days.
4 don’t were a mix of linen and wool.
5 don’t let you’re live stock have sex with the wrong animals.
6 don’t eat raw meet.
7 don’t prostitute you’re daughter. (Thou it conveniently leaves out wife.)
8 don’t judge les ye be judged.
You hear that you retarded clottiest turd monkey
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:37 pmThis is all from the Old Testament, which you say is invalid until it’s convenient for you.
If it’s wrong for 2 consenting adult male’s to have sex but it’s perfectly ok for a priest to be forcing an 8-year-old kid to play theholy skin flute.
If people chose to be gay then I guess I chose to dream about male on male spanking, and like it when I was 5. Why would anyone in his or her right mind chose to be gay knowing of the negative social stigma? Besides in 1993 scientists proved homosexuality is genetic by swapping the gene controlling sexual behaviour in fruit fly’s, causing male’s to louse interest in female’s and female’s to display courtship to other female’s.
January 12th, 2007 at 1:30 am