Ah crap… just followed the links and read the details. They’re both idiots. Seems that the dog mooing comparison was actually started by the “borndifferent” campaign. It boggles the mind. How could these people think that this message would resonate with people?
It has been proven that those who have an obsession about Gays, and what they do in bed, are actually worried about their own sexuality and afraid of their own lusts for the same sex! Many homophobes are actually deeply closeted people themselves!
so…if you are not “born” gay, that means you make a choice to be gay, correct? Now, if you’ve chosen to be “straight”, you still have homosexual tendencies, as this was a “choice” during your sexual awakening. No wonder the people that believe this crap are homophobic, because deep down, they may have some “gay” issues as a result of choosing a lifestyle.
It has been proven that those who have an obsession about Gays, and what they do in bed, are actually worried about their own sexuality and afraid of their own lusts for the same sex! Many homophobes are actually deeply closeted people themselves!
Comment by Jay Randal
Excellent! My point exactly.
and really, for most “gays”, it’s not about the sex, it’s about a relationship. It’s the homophobes who zero in on the sexual act
OK religious morons out there, here is one to chew on. The Greek and Roman civilization were well documented with bisexual and homosexual behavior as being the norm. Yet, your God did not wipe them out or hit them with some plague as punishement. No, their civilizations dominated two extensive blocks of history and flurished. The point being, why can’t you idiots let God judge our actions? We and he does not need your help to tell us how we should live.
Regardless as to whether it is nature or nurture, innate / developmental / degenerative / choice, the political reality is this. Gay activists are trying to parley the American public’s tolerance of the homosexual lifestyle into acceptance of homosexual unions as equal to heterosexual unions between one man and one woman. Unfortunately, instead of moving the American public towards their goal gradually with civil unions through the legislative process, while respectfully appealing to Christian compassion, democrats tried to ramrod gay marriages through the courts while deriding Christians as bigotted.
The backlash of this tactic was swift, strong and decisive, and will be very, very long lasting. It is a lesson to democrats that by picking a fight, you just might lose ground, not gain it.
Chase > most Gay guys do not have a lisp thing > those who do that want to do so as some kind of playacting! Just the same as some guys acting like John Wayne > lol.
Fact: I was born gay. I have always been gay. There was never a time in my life when I wasn’t gay. I struggled with my gay identify, but not because I was a confused straight boy. I WAS GAY LIVING IN A STRAIGHT WORLD!
Dobson can go and jump off a cliff. His ignorance on the issue is no match for the experience of my own life and of millions of other people.
If the moonbats on the rapture right really want to “prove” that sexual orientation is a choice then let’s see them take a straight guy and turn him gay. If sexuality is that malleable, then by all means prove it.
In the meantime, stop messing with my life and my civil rights! Stop fighting tooth and nail to keep me and people like me in second class status. Screw you, Dobson and your girdle-throwing mama too!
so, people with lisps are gay? I was not aware of that. Whodathunk my neighbor with 4 kids and a beautiful wife, is gay because of a lisp. Wait’ll I tell him!
Jason LOL > nobody has denigrated marriage by demanding equal rights for Gays and Lesbians! Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Ugh, the whole “dog mooing” thing started with the BornDifferent people. What a terrible, TERRIBLE campaign. Why not try to correlate it to something like albinoism, which while similarly “broken” from a purely biological perspective carries no moral stigma?
Personally, I think there’s too much focus on genetic causes and too little focus on developmental causes. There have been recent studies (cited in a recent The Economist article) that indicate that hte likelihood of a woman having a gay son increases as the number of male children she has increases. This was true whether the sons were raised together or separately, and did not appear when the woman had previously-adopted step-sons.
Which indicates that homosexuality is more likely due to hormonal or developmental factors relating to the mother and child, rather than something like a “gay gene”. It also strongly suggests that homosexuality isn’t a choice, but has some root biological cause.
People are born white, black, and yellow. People are born missing limbs, or with an extra limb. Some people are born with brains that cause them learning disabilities.
Some people are born with certain phobias.
There are so many varieties of people, that aren’t “normal” in terms of both physical elements and mental elements.
So why can’t someone be born attracted to the opposite sex?
They have to make ridiculous comparisons like this because if they focused on all mammal sexuality they would find many reasons that male dogs have sex with other male dogs. Of course, they aren’t necessarily gay but more about dominance and leadership…but it happens in all mammals. If there is a difference it is because human beings attach emotion to sexual behaviour more than dominance and social heirarchy.
Re; #26. My GF used to be a dancer and still occasionaly teaches dance. So I’ve met a small number of gay men. Not one of them has had a lisp and I think only one has even been the effeminate cliche. The others were just regular guys.
Chase > since you have been around Gay guys in the hair cutting profession, then no wonder you hear the lisp thing a lot! Hollywood movies kind of promoted the thing that Gays working in salons have a lisp, so like I said it’s playacting!
I want to know when Dr. Dobson recived his Ph.D. in science and gained the authority to say this? LAst time I checked he only had a degree in psychology. They just seem to forget that God created each one of us individually. I cannot see anyone choosing to be gay becuase of all the problems they experience. Why would ayone choose this?
So they are just acting like that, to keep up with their common perception?
Comment by Chase — July 20, 2006 @ 11:44 am
Most of the openly gay people I know do not have a lisp, or any other speech defect of any kind.
I am willing to bet some of the people you know are homosexuals and you haven’t even noticed -a lot of gay people work hard at concealing their sexual orientation for fear of public shame, fear of losing friends and/or having to sever contact with their families.
Oh, and the association of nature’s traits to heterosexuality is simply lame. Any lover of Science channels in TV knows that there is a BIG LOT of examples of homosexual acts, tendencies and rituals in the nature. And many animals can change sex in their lifetimes. Or have both. Of course heterosexual interaction is needed in developed species to breed, but even this isn’t a must. Take starfishes, for example. If a limb is severed from the main body, the main body will grow another limb and, from the severed limb will grow another full body.
Yes Chase they are playacting > perhaps for your benefit? Limp wrist thing is also just an act too! Most Gay guys act masculine, so you probably never notice them in public!
Jason LOL > nobody has denigrated marriage by demanding equal rights for Gays and Lesbians! Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 20, 2006 @ 11:29 am
But in Scandanavia, the legalization of gay marriage has caused heterosexual couples to wait until after the birth of their second child to get married.
The previous news was brought to you by a citizen in my community who is against gay marriage and used this reasoning to support his view. No, really. He wrote a column in our local newspaper.
#25. “Brain Sex”, “Why men don’t iron”, and “Sex on the brain” cover this topic very well. I read Brain Sex several years ago and it really changed my views. Fetal development has a great impact on fetal outcome. A surge of hormomes may crate a hyper-feminine female or a homosexual male. There IS scientific evidence, one just has to look past their bias.
We must try to remember that James Dobson was severly abused as a child, primarily by his mother. He has never sought therapy to deal with how this has affected his life. His preoccupation with matters of sexuality, especially with homosexuality, would seem to indicate that he has serious issues that clearly need addressing. His intense need to stamp out homosexuality, because it is a ‘threat’, is a cry for help. Does he hope that by stamping it out of everyone else that it will stamp it out in him too? I am not saying that he is Gay, how could I know that? But he does have an issue with it, that is his alone. He just uses religion to hide behind.
Actually I am surprised that James Dobson believes so strongely in the sanctity of heterosexual marriage, since his mother abused him horribly, and his father beat him too?
He is the product of bad parenting, so he should not be telling others how to live their lives!
Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Ah, come on. Don’t people get it? If a gay couple moves in next door to me and is allowed the same rights as the dh and me, well there goes my marriage. Because after all, the only thing holding my marriage together is discrimination against others.
Post 42 WC > those who are against Gays getting hitched use any excuse they can find!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 20, 2006 @ 12:15 pm
Yep. Those couples had been getting married after the birth of their first child. Gay marriage changed that. I can clearly see the connection (wink, wink).
#46-Daryll, the bible also states that eating lobster is wrong. But I never hear people preaching against that. With the exception of PETA, that is. And I don’t think they are against it because it says so in the bible.
The bible also says that gambling is wrong. Or so says a former co-worker. That’s why he was against the creation of our state lottery. I guess the high school kids in our state who get to attend college that is paid by lottery proceeds are all going to hell.
Post 54 WC > there would only be a connection, if the husbands ran off to get married with their best buddies, instead of marrying their girl friends > hint! ( Sarcasm on.)
Is this the same Bible the was translated in 200 different flavors, and completely lost its authenticity?
Or is it the Bible that instructed christians to go on crusades?
Or is it the Bible that led to the abuses of the church in the Middle Ages?
Comment by Jebus loves me — July 20, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
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I’m really not sure why it was translated in 200 different flavors. Man (including you) has stated the bible has lost it’s authenticity, but not so. Everything that the bible instructed will happen has happened/is happening (read Revelations). Also, Jesus did instruct his children to go ye into all the world and teach his gospel. Some people misinterpret the bible, but the bible is written with instructions that are plain as day.
#13 The only person I know with a “gay lisp” is a heterosexual friend of mine. Though he is married with kids, and clearly not confused about his sexuality, he says people always assume that he’s gay because of his speech impediment. Isn’t it interesting that people in 2006 still assume that benign physiological manifestations such as speech impediments are an indication of a person’s sexual orientation? Isn’t it amazing that what a person wears, how he styles his hair, what he does for a living and even how he crosses his legs, is a constant concern of heterosexual men as if one inerrant gender role violation or one inappropriate gesture will render them instantly homosexual?
So as for your question: I don’t know any homosexuals who lisp but I will ask your question to my heterosexual friend and get back with you with his answer. I’m pretty sure what his answer will be.
While we’re waiting for my friend’s reply let me ask you a few much more reasonable questions? You can get back with me later on your answers:
1. Why is it that the more educated a person is, and the more exposed a person is to the wider world, the less likely they are to be racists, sexists, xenophobes and homophobes?
2. Why is it that racists are also overwhelmingly sexist, xenophobic and homophobic?
3. Why is it that so many straight people believe that sexual orientation can be changed from heterosexual to homosexual but almost no gay people seriously do?
4. Do straight people that believe sexual orientation is changeable fight a constant battle to remain straight or is it just that they believe everybody else BUT them does?
The bible also says that gambling is wrong. Or so says a former co-worker. That’s why he was against the creation of our state lottery. I guess the high school kids in our state who get to attend college that is paid by lottery proceeds are all going to hell.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
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It is indeed wrong. There are other avenues that can be used other than gambling. No excuse. It states in the bible that governments will rule, but to follow the ultimate law, which is his word.
#17, Hey, Hendler, so you think it would have been better for interracial unions to be called by another name? Just as long as they take baby steps, right? Ridiculous. It’s all or nothing. And if you think for one minute gay marriage will forever be prohibited, you’re fooling yourself. It’s coming. It may take 50 years, but it’s coming.
Why don’t you ask African Americans if they would be satisfied having their unions called by a different name? Let’s see what kind of response you get.
#46-Daryll, the bible also states that eating lobster is wrong. But I never hear people preaching against that. With the exception of PETA, that is. And I don’t think they are against it because it says so in the bible.
Comment by Cyra Brown — July 20, 2006 @ 12:30 pm
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Yes it is also considered unrighteous. The bible states that it isn’t easy serving christ because of temptations, but if you want to see the kingdom of god (heaven) then you will go through a lot of pain/temptation.
It is indeed wrong. There are other avenues that can be used other than gambling. No excuse. It states in the bible that governments will rule, but to follow the ultimate law, which is his word.
Do you believe that every word in the Bible came from God?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 12:45 pm
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Yes, because he also stated in the bible that he is the word, and the word is him. The bible also states that no one should take bits and pieces of the word, but should preach the complete word for the unrighteous to understand. It’s all about bringing the unrighteous to christ, Glory to God!!! If you consider yourself as following in the ways of holiness then you can’t practice homosexuality because it’s condemned in his word. There is a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
And so since every word in the Bible came directly from God, it stands to reason that those words carry considerable more authority than, say, the word of man. Is that correct?
And so since every word in the Bible came directly from God, it stands to reason that those words carry considerable more authority than, say, the word of man. Is that correct?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 12:54 pm
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Most definitely, man will fail, but god doesn’t. This is also explained in the bible. Always trust in him and never doubt. Read Revelations. This life on earth is temporary. The ultimate goal for everyone, per the bible, should be to make it heaven and be considered worhty.
This is where we should go to the rich. They should give even more. This society is financially uneven because of the greed of the rich.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:54 pm
Answer the question. Are the kids who accept lottery proceeds to attend college going to hell because of the fact that the money was collected in a sinful way?
#72: Cool, so given that you “preach the complete word”, we can assume you follow the Biblical directives on how to treat your slaves. Wait, you do have slaves, right?
Answer the question. Are the kids who accept lottery proceeds to attend college going to hell because of the fact that the money was collected in a sinful way?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
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Well I see the born different crowd here devolves into name calling and not itelligent dialogue. Dobson is right. The reader should ask God, he will give you the conviction to know the truth.
Tell me, Daryll, do you go to church? I assume you do. Did your preacher attend seminary school? Does he have any additional religious training?
If so, why? If he was called by God to preach the gospel, and God is almighty and all powerful, why did your preacher have to go to college to learn about the Bible and be trained to be a preacher? Where in your Bible does it say that man must receive additional training to preach the word of God? Does your religious organization (Methodist, Baptist, etc.) require a college degree before someone is allowed to preach to its members?
Tell me, Daryll, do you go to church? I assume you do. Did your preacher attend seminary school? Does he have any additional religious training?
If so, why? If he was called by God to preach the gospel, and God is almighty and all powerful, why did your preacher have to go to college to learn about the Bible and be trained to be a preacher? Where in your Bible does it say that man must receive additional training to preach the word of God? Does your religious organization (Methodist, Baptist, etc.) require a college degree before someone is allowed to preach to its members?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:06 pm
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It doesn’t. That’s society’s standards. God will call whoever whenever to preach the gospel (it has been proven in the bible). These days there are a lot of false prophets within are midst. That’s the reason why bible states to be careful and know the word for yourselve. Your preacher isn’t going to save you from unrighteousness, only god.
But they encourage the sin by accepting the money. Doesn’t that make them an accessory to the sin? Isn’t that money “tainted?” After all, it was used to commit an act of sin.
Chase: “Has anyone ever tried to explain the “gay lispâ€? Is that something homosexuals are born with?” - - “Thufferin’ thucotash! Ya mean I’m GAY??” - Sylvester
Yeah, because “seperate but equal” works SO well, doesn’t it? Face it, even if you gave us “civil unions” that were literally every bit the same as marriage, but didn’t call it marriage, then it’d still be psychologically different, discriminatory, even.
As for Dobson, he’s completely out of touch with reality. If he thinks I woke up one day and said “Gee, I feel like having most of society hate me for no good reason!” and chose to be gay, he’s insane.
Oh, and Daryll, hon…no one cares. Really. The bible says a LOT of things are “wrong”, like eating shrimp (right there in the same book as your precious condemnation of homosexuality).
So when was the last time you thought Red Lobster should be illegal based on biblical law, hmmm?
I didn’t think so.
After years of study and tests on millions of humans DNA Dobson can now qualitatively prove that humans can not be born with variances in physical sexual orientation…
The bible states that you should live your life according to the world even if society criticizes you.
I think you maybe meant to say “word” instead of “world,” but that’s OK.
On one of yesterday’s threads, I brought up the story of Lot’s daughters as an example of something in the Bible that I find very difficult to square in purely moral terms. I’m frankly not really sure what I would say to one of my own kids if they asked me to explain to them what lesson they should take away from the example of two young women who get their father drunk, “lay with him” (i.e., have sex with him), and then bear his children.
If, as you stated, we should live our lives according to the word even if society criticizes us, are we to assume that the Bible is sanctioning incest?
Born gay…know what? I don’t care. It’s a moot subject. We have the freedom to be who we wish to be, SO LONG AS WE DON’T INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS! Okay, sorry ’bout that. (I know we all loathe all-caps, but I wanted to make a point) Any one who stands up and vows to devote their life to another human being, I applaud their devotion. More than HALF of all straight marriages in this country don’t last three years, (adultery, financial issues, stagnation) AND a guy dressed as Elvis has the power to pronounce you man and wife, uh-huh-huh. So, where’s the sacred part come in? I’ve yet to hear a decent argument to keep fags and lesbians from legally benefitting from their relationship. Sure, dogs don’t moo, but dogs aren’t people either? Have we forgotton that gays are PEOPLE?! Seriously, take one out to lunch, go shopping, walk your dogs together. Form friendships, get to know your fellow human beings. Leave the sex in the bedroom, or the kitchen if that’s what you’re into. I don’t care if you’re born gay or straight, love who you want. It’s mind-boggling how the faithful have made love evil and wrong….and the ACT of making love evil and wrong as well.
“[Christians who are against gays] also believe that we should be FRUITFUL. . .and multiply. Boy, they walk a tight rope every day, don’t they? ‘How do we be fruitful and not think about it? We can sing hymns during it: One stroke at a time, sweet Jesus. . .One stroke at a time…sweet Lord’” -Bill Hicks
All this talk about if gay is right or wrong. People listen up when or if you get to heaven you’ll see that God loves all humans so if you don’t like gays now just hope that you aren’t in the group in heaven with gays. That might be the one question God ask you that could mean heaven or hell. Do you love all of Gods children or are you prejudice. I bet many will change their answer then so here on earth at this time say what ever you want and follow the prejudice Administration but join God’s group in heaven by accepting all or go to where it is 1000 degrees and hotter your choice,
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter? - -
“I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
While thinking about that, can I ask another? My employees insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?
Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this (country): touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?”
Jesus fulfilled the law. The most important thing is to love God with all of your heart. Second, love your neighbor as you love God. Anyone who goes around pointing out homosexuals are not neighbors is not of God, but of the evil one.
Also, why is it necessary for Mr. Dobson to lie?
Are they “born gay”?
The best research says no. Even respected scientists — several of whom are gay — acknowledge this. Take a look:
* “There is not a single master gene that makes people gay…. I don’t think we will ever predict who will be gay.”
Dean Hamer, openly gay author of 1993 X Chromosome Study. | (read it)
* “It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work.”
Simon LeVay, openly gay author of 1991 gay-brain study | (read it)
Do either of these studies state that people are not born gay?
your a good man who believes in God and the Bible, and I respect that.
I also recognize that you want to do the right thing.
However, I believe that GOD, in whatever form we believe him to be is full of Love and that he doesn’t discriminate between people.
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter?
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Correct, one of the laws is not to hate our fellow man. Even though I don’t know each and everyone of you, I love you all in an agape manner, but I dislike the sins that commit as well as the sins that I commit. Once I commit a sin, repent quickly and try not to commit the sin again.
I’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll
The world isn’t black and white, as much as you may want it that way, Daryll. Given your set of circumstances, no, they cannot reproduce. But we don’t put homosexuals on separate islands and leave them to die.
A lesbian woman can reproduce as easily as I can, through artificial insemination, or heterosexual contact; a gay man can reproduce through similar methods.
Hey, Dobson, babies aren’t born sexually active. They *choose* to be sexually active sometime later in life. You know, the way you chose to be a strong, God-fearing, apple-pie-lovin’, heterosexual man?
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter? - -
“I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
While thinking about that, can I ask another? My employees insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?
Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this (country): touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?â€
Comment by Badmoodman — July 20, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
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Let’s be logical, the bible said thou shalt not kill. Also, later in the New Testament the bible denounced slavery and bondage (Please read).
Hey homophobe? How many souls will be lost because James Dobson can’t stomach gay sex? The idea that gays should change before entering the church is wrong.
Let’s leave homosexuals alone. Those of us who are Christian should be sweet, as Jesus has commanded us. We should be giving them the shirts off our backs. The homosexuals will wonder what makes us so sweet and will want to be a part of it. If God wants them to change, we’ll have brought them to the table where they can be reached. It is not for anyone to pass judgement on another.
I’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll
So God knew there would be homosexual men and women. Did he know that before he created man and woman? Hmmmm. He knew it would happen, yet he allowed it anyway.
Are you saying that is the sole reason why he created man and woman so that they could not reproduce with others of the same sex, simply because they may turn gay?
The world isn’t black and white, as much as you may want it that way, Daryll. Given your set of circumstances, no, they cannot reproduce. But we don’t put homosexuals on separate islands and leave them to die.
A lesbian woman can reproduce as easily as I can, through artificial insemination, or heterosexual contact; a gay man can reproduce through similar methods.
You have been proven wrong.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
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I used that example as an analogy. If it was meant to be wny would you have to go back to the naturally intended gender to reproduction. The bible also states the reproduction method was created for a married man and woman. Your method is contradictive to the word.
I have no idea if this is related but there is a mooing dog in Apple Computer’s past.
The mascot and semiofficial emblem of Claris Software [Appleworks, Clarisworks and Filemaker] was Claris the Dog-Cow. The original icon looked less like a dog than a airdale - holstein mutt. Anyway the tagline for Claris was “Moof”.
Given Apple’s policies about partner’s and even their former rainbow logo, I could see the wingnuts use that as a starting point. Or… their PR firm almost certainly is an all Mac shop and may be playing a subtle joke on Dobson.
h yes, of course, aryll, the bible mentions homosexuality in books other than Leviticus, so that makes my point about Leviticus condemning eating shrimp totally irrelevant…
Wait, no it doesn’t.
Ass.
I’d also like to point out that, assuming God did indeed create everything in the universe, that means he created me and made me gay, so who are you to second guess him?
Funny how no one ever brings up that point.
Shin Gallon, you were much more polite. If I had seen your comment before I posted my own, I would have restrained myself. I actually have no standing in this fight, since I’m a straight woman.
“These idiots remind of church officials in the time of Copernicus: despite scientific evidence, they continue to insist on their version of reality.
Why do people even listen to them?”
Because they’re sheep, and thinking for themselves is just too hard, so they let JAYYYYSUS do all their thinking for them. Life’s easy when you mindlessly follow ancient mistranslated folk tales found on scrolls in the desert 2000 years ago!
#77-Daryll, you say that “god doesn’t fail…” Were Adam and Eve A success? They did get kicked out of Eden, after all. Cain murdered Abel, God is against that, you know. Why didn’t he just ’scrap’ them, and start over? Who’s to know? Come to think of it, How do we even know that this all REALLY happened. We are supposed to take somebody’s word for it, but according to the story here people have been sinning since the very beginning. How can we be sure they weren’t just lying?Godknewhis ‘creations were flawed, and he was ok with it then, so he must be ok with it now.
Actually, Zooey, you do have a standing, because everyone that believes in equality and fairness and basic human decency has a standing in this fight. We all have to stand up to intolerant hateful bigots like Dobson and his ilk, or they’ll drag us back to the dark ages (where gay people were stoned to death and women were basically property, no better than a donkey or field plow).
So God knew there would be homosexual men and women. Did he know that before he created man and woman? Hmmmm. He knew it would happen, yet he allowed it anyway.
Are you saying that is the sole reason why he created man and woman so that they could not reproduce with others of the same sex, simply because they may turn gay?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
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Yes, God wanted to terminate man, but Jesus died on the cross to save us. These sins are planted on earth as a test to determine who’s really loyal to him. Are you loyal to Christ? And No, he didn’t create marriage just for reproduction to turn away gays. Jesus loves the union of a man and woman. It also explains in Mark that he rather that man and woman marry then commit fornication.
I’d also like to point out that, assuming God did indeed create everything in the universe, that means he created me and made me gay, so who are you to second guess him?
Funny how no one ever brings up that point.
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
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He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
#77-Daryll, you say that “god doesn’t fail…†Were Adam and Eve A success? They did get kicked out of Eden, after all. Cain murdered Abel, God is against that, you know. Why didn’t he just ’scrap’ them, and start over? Who’s to know? Come to think of it, How do we even know that this all REALLY happened. We are supposed to take somebody’s word for it, but according to the story here people have been sinning since the very beginning. How can we be sure they weren’t just lying?Godknewhis ‘creations were flawed, and he was ok with it then, so he must be ok with it now.
Dobson should know the kinds of noises puppies make. He’s the one who kicked the living crap out of his own dog, just to “show him who’s boss” — and in a valiant fight to the finish over ownership of a furry toilet seat cover.
“He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.”
I did? When did I do tat? Was it when I was a kid and I noticed I was more interested in seeing other “boy parts” than I was “girl parts”? Was it when I was a teenager and I thought about other guys all the time? Was it when I fell in love with another guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him? Or when I noticed that I found the thought of sex with a woman boring (sorry girls, no offense, you’re lovely, you just don’t “do it” for me).
Let me ask this: When did you decide to be straight? When did YOU make a concious decision to be heterosexual? Or were you simply always straight?
Then why assume it’s any different for me? Because your little book says so? Why not try thinking things through logically for a change?
He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
So, am I correct in saying that when we’re faced with a difficult choice in life, God is actually testing us to see if we make the correct decision, that is, the decision that He knows is best.
He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
So, am I correct in saying that when we’re faced with a difficult choice in life, God is actually testing us to see if we make the correct decision, that is, the decision that He knows is best.
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
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I get pissed off and start running my mouth, er, keyboard. People like Daryll make me sick because they hold themselves out as morally superior to others, and that’s the kind of thinking that will destroy all of us.
I leave him/her to your tender mercies…my migraine is getting worse every minute.
Marriage between one man and one woman is perfectly acceptable, so why would you even consider banning interracial marriage? Why would you even think to compare interracial marriage with homosexual marriage? What are you saying about other races to make such a comparison?
I personally don’t care if it becomes legal or not, it has nothing to do with me, but I thoroughly enjoy that liberals tried to intimidate Americans into accepting something or fear being labeled a bigot, and Americans stepped up to PERMANENTLY block it in their state constitutions. Take that!
He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
The more I hear this statement (or something like it), the less true it sounds to me.
I have always been straight, as far back as I can recall. I cannot remember a time when I did not like girls, women, or when I did not feel a special attraction to at least one -whether a neighbor, a teacher, a friend, or a friend’s friend. Even as a small child I developed crushes on girls or female teachers.
Being physically intimate with another man is not an option for me, and I do not find the idea appealing. That thought has never once crosssed my mind as a matter of serious consideration.
In a nutshell: I did not choose to be heterosexual -I was born this way. Why would it be any different for a gay person?
Maybe the thought that one can choose one’s sexual orientation is what really scares the wits out of Dobson’s ilk: Deep down they are afraid that they might just be homosexuals, are repulsed by the idea, and it drives them to make hateful statements, undertake hateful actions.
Let me follow up on this. I think most rational people would agree that we’re not born with any particular ideological bent, but that, rather, we gain our view of the world from those around us. Over time, we begin to form our sets of likes and dislikes, our preferences and prejudices based on a rather complex set of external influences.
Given this, can we infer that our choice to become a Democrat or a Republican is actually part of this decision-making test that God has devised for us? How do we know if we’ve chosen correctly?
He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.â€
I did? When did I do tat? Was it when I was a kid and I noticed I was more interested in seeing other “boy parts†than I was “girl parts� Was it when I was a teenager and I thought about other guys all the time? Was it when I fell in love with another guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him? Or when I noticed that I found the thought of sex with a woman boring (sorry girls, no offense, you’re lovely, you just don’t “do it†for me).
Let me ask this: When did you decide to be straight? When did YOU make a concious decision to be heterosexual? Or were you simply always straight?
Then why assume it’s any different for me? Because your little book says so? Why not try thinking things through logically for a change?
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
I am thinking logically according to the book. The bible states that a relationship between a man and a woman is a relationship that is recognized by god. There isn’t one single scripture that indicates god recognized identical gender relationships. A man and woman’s body parts are constructed for each other. Second, I’ve always been straight. I didn’t and currently don’t have the right to change my sexuality because the bible codemns homosexuality. You chose to be what you are. I can respect you and society may accept your sexuality, but the word condemns it.
I get pissed off and start running my mouth, er, keyboard. People like Daryll make me sick because they hold themselves out as morally superior to others, and that’s the kind of thinking that will destroy all of us.
I leave him/her to your tender mercies…my migraine is getting worse every minute.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 2:23 pm
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I never considered myself morally superior. Previously, I indicated that I do commit sins myself, but I do repent. I don’t want to destroy you guys. I’m just informing you guys that homosexual actions are condemned by the word and the word is god.
In reading this site, they reference http://www.narth.com, the “national association for research and therapy of homosexuals.
doing my own research, the site is set up by Paul R. Payne consulting. Who is, interestingly, from Campus crusade for Christ. So, in doing more research it seems that the people with the “gay agenda” seem to be these few, far right wing christians who backup their research, WITH THEIR OWN RESEARCH!!!
Let me follow up on this. I think most rational people would agree that we’re not born with any particular ideological bent, but that, rather, we gain our view of the world from those around us. Over time, we begin to form our sets of likes and dislikes, our preferences and prejudices based on a rather complex set of external influences.
Given this, can we infer that our choice to become a Democrat or a Republican is actually part of this decision-making test that God has devised for us? How do we know if we’ve chosen correctly?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
Correct. Society has categorized sexuality. You came out of your mother’s womb as a male/female. You make the decision to become heterosexual/homosexual. God has given each human a brilliant mind to determine what’s right and wrong according to the word. Please, I’m not vocally chastising anybody, but I’m trying to help save as many souls as I can. I wouldn’t want to spend eternity in hell, which consists of fire and brimstone (hott!!).
Too bad “the word” doesn’t condemn being an irrational troll on internet forums…
But it DOES condemn eating shrimp! I’ve mended my ways and will go protest outside seafood places now, thanks for helping me see the light, Daryll!
Oh yeah, I forgot about those…
So why don’t we see Christofacist groups like Focus on the Family calling for constitutional amendments banning shrimp and other shellfish if those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law”? I really want to know.
If you ask me, and no one did, I think the gay rights movement is the civil rights issue of our time. My parents were at the forefront of the civil rights/open housing movement in the 1960’s and 1970’s, and now my children are able to live in a diverse community and attend integrated schools. That is my parent’s legacy. What will our legacy be? Will we accept the challenge of the gay rights movement and help our country move forward, or will we shirk our responsibility so that our children live in a more hostile environment than we were left. Our generation has to answer the bell, so to speak. If we don’t embrace the gay rights movement - including the fight for equal marriage rights - we will have failed our children. The time for equality is now.
Don’t forget the mixed fabrics ban, and the seven-day timeframe when women are supposed to be “impure†(and everything they touch) every month.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 20, 2006 @ 2:56 pm
Now that you mention it, that whole mixed fabrics thing really sticks in my craw. In fact, I’m convinced that it poses a grave and serious threat to my all-cotton shirts. I’m going to write my legislator right now and suggest that he bring this issue up on the floor of Congress. Mark my words–I will not rest until the scourge of mixed fabrics is eliminated from American society!
So was that pooch born favoring its right or left paw, or did it have a choice? Has anyone ever decided whether they were either left handed, right handed or both?
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The reason why Dobson and his ilk are so determined to prove that gay people choose it is so they get to point and say “See, they just want to be perverts and deviants, and we’re saving you from them!” whereas if people realize that being gay isn’t a choice, Dobson is shown for the intolerant monster he is.
> 158
Because the kind of psychotic nut that uses the bible as justification for hate is also the kind that picks and chooses his biblical laws to only speak out against things they themselves dislike.
If someone like Dobson (or our friend Daryll here) would call for ALL biblical laws to be made into US laws, not just the ones dealing with things they don’t like (like the fact that I enjoy sex with other guys), then at least they’d be consistent. They’d still be mootbat loco, but at least they wouldn’t also be hypocrites.
if those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law�
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
God’s law also bars women from teaching men, and prescribes death by stoning for adulterers and those who work on Sabbath.
Why are those laws ignored?
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 20, 2006 @ 3:05 pm
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Society has ignored those laws. Adultery is depicted as an abomination to christ and no you shouldn’t work on the sabbath (which is really Saturday, read your bible). And it is indeed wrong for a women to preach in the church because the man is considered the head. The scripture says that the woman is supposed to remain silent in the church when it pertains to teaching.
Thanks for confirming that you’re also a sexist in addition to a homophobe.
People like you are exactly why I don’t go to church (well, that, and I don’t believe in any god or gods).
For the last time, Daryll, I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Must I repeat myself endlessly for you to get this simple point?
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
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Please, help me understand how you were born gay. When you had urges for women you went after a woman, that’s a decision. You can’t be born gay because as a baby or toddler, you don’t have a sound mind. This doesn’t happen until you mature as a child.
Why are folks arguing with Daryll? He clearly isn’t going to let go of his views on the “literal” interpretation of “the word” and he clearly thinks the US government should be in the business of enforcing religious laws (from one particular interpretation of one particular religion).
We’re not going to bring him around to embracing the healthy effects on a society of keeping church and state separated. We’re not going to impress upon him the similarities between his views and those of certain oppressive regimes which follow other religions. And we’re not going to convince him that “literal” is in the eye of the beholder. Etc.
To rephrase the cliche, we’re wasting our time and amusing/engaging the pig. It’s noble, sort of, and entertaining, sort of, but I hope nobody thinks it’s going to sway Daryll.
I think the website is wonderful but the mooing dog message is problematic and an easy target for the religious right who will point out that dogs aren’t naturally born to moo. Any dog that moo’s is going against his nature and would have to be trained (or recruited as it were) to ignore his instincts in order to moo. It seems that they have already launched their counter offensive. This just doesn’t seem to me the best ad campaign that $900K could buy.
#17
I agree that gay people have probably not used the most effective means to achieve marriage equality or gay rights in general. We have allowed our ideology and sense of fairness override our strategic planning. We have fought this battle as if we live in a fair and reasonable world rather than considering the FACT that we live in a country where most people still believe we are alien and a threat to tradition.
I often wonder about the thinking behind some of the people who claim to be fighting for equal rights. I am amazed at the methods which some people seem to feel is most effective in showing the world that we are not alien and not a threat to them and their families. I personally find Gay Pride Parades and Circuit Parties (in their current manifestations) to be ineffectual and even damaging to the gay rights movement. Some of the displays that go on in these exibitions make me uncomfortable as I find them to be inappropriate for public display (and I’m an out and PROUD gay man). Once a year drag queens, leather men in assless chaps, people who are obviously hyped up on drugs and overt displays of sex do not make the average American feel less threatened by gay people. It’s hard to tell people to stop defining us by our sexuality when that is exactly what we put front and center as the thing we are most PROUD of. I love TVs, TGs and TSs and want them to proudly march in the parade but some people seem to do drag only in these parades to hide their identitiy or to offend conservatives. Neither of these reasons has anything to do with Pride. I have NEVER, EVER heard a single person say that they came out or became more gay supportive because of seeing a gay pride parade or a circuit party. If the purpose of the parades has changed, then let’s say so. There seems to be something wrong with calling something “Gay Pride” that the vast majority of out, proud, gay people wouldn’t be caught dead in.
I also believe we are concerning ourselves too much with court battles and legislative fights when many of us haven’t even talked face to face, heart to heart with our parents, children, siblings, friends, neighbors and co-workers about the fact that we’re gay, much less talk to them about who we are, who we love, how we feel and why marriage equality is important to us. I think too many people want their State House, the Courts, Congress, the President, Hollywood or the straight guy down the street to stand up and fight for gay rights when they are too lazy or too cowardly to stand up for themselves and talk to the people that they see every day. I get sick to death of hearing people whine and complain about the way their friends and family believe everything that James Dobson, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson tell them about the way gay people are, how they feel and how they act only to find out that they’re in the closet and haven’t shown those people first hand what a gay person is, how he feels and how he acts. MOST gay people need to start taking personal responsibility for our successes and failures in the fight for equal rights. MANY gay people need to stop bitchin, get off of the damn bar stool, pull their balls out of their asses, find some courage, come out and talk to everyone who will listen, face to face and heart to heart about who we are, what we want and why. People don’t discriminate against people that they know and love. PERIOD! If people get to know you, as a person who happens to be gay, and love you, as a person who happens to be gay, they will not only NOT want to discriminate against you but they will also not want anyone else to discriminate against you.
Jason, I must take great exception with your use of the term “homosexual lifestyleâ€. That is a term that is used by anti-gay people in order to suggest that homosexual orientation is a lifestyle choice, like “surfer†or “hippieâ€.
Try this: Make up a list of the five top things that you feel defines a “homosexual lifestyleâ€. Then go out and ask ten gay people if their lifestyle matches the lifestyle definitions on your list. Remember: being attracted to someone of the same gender is NOT a lifestyle and having sex with a person of the same gender is NOT a lifestyle.
Stupidity has reached new levels. Dogs mooing = gay people??? WTF mate??
July 20th, 2006 at 10:49 amDobson is mentally ill since his mother beat him with her girdle when he was a boy > lol.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:50 amDobson I guess has never noticed male dogs doing each other, so whatever James is nuts!
July 20th, 2006 at 10:52 amAh crap… just followed the links and read the details. They’re both idiots. Seems that the dog mooing comparison was actually started by the “borndifferent” campaign. It boggles the mind. How could these people think that this message would resonate with people?
July 20th, 2006 at 10:53 amsomeone please explain to me why james dobson was born mooing
July 20th, 2006 at 10:53 amDobson has absolutely no grasp on reality. He’d have been right at home with the world-is-flat people centuries ago.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:58 amIn Dobson’s case, he was born an idiot.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:59 amIt has been proven that those who have an obsession about Gays, and what they do in bed, are actually worried about their own sexuality and afraid of their own lusts for the same sex! Many homophobes are actually deeply closeted people themselves!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:02 amMost gay bashers want it up the ass. I’m sure of it.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:04 amso…if you are not “born” gay, that means you make a choice to be gay, correct? Now, if you’ve chosen to be “straight”, you still have homosexual tendencies, as this was a “choice” during your sexual awakening. No wonder the people that believe this crap are homophobic, because deep down, they may have some “gay” issues as a result of choosing a lifestyle.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:07 amBut Jebus said to Bush:
1. Gays are sub human
2. Kill Arabs and Muslims
3. Medical research is Murder.
Who are you to Disagree with Jebus ????
July 20th, 2006 at 11:07 amIt has been proven that those who have an obsession about Gays, and what they do in bed, are actually worried about their own sexuality and afraid of their own lusts for the same sex! Many homophobes are actually deeply closeted people themselves!
Comment by Jay Randal
Excellent! My point exactly.
and really, for most “gays”, it’s not about the sex, it’s about a relationship. It’s the homophobes who zero in on the sexual act
July 20th, 2006 at 11:09 amI have a question. Has anyone ever tried to explain the “gay lisp”? Is that something homosexuals are born with?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:09 amwomen aren’t born with protruding adams’-apple, and … wait…oh, never mind.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:14 amLet’s be politically correct here.
Some people may be born gay but James Dobson evolved to become the complet moron he is today.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:18 amOK religious morons out there, here is one to chew on. The Greek and Roman civilization were well documented with bisexual and homosexual behavior as being the norm. Yet, your God did not wipe them out or hit them with some plague as punishement. No, their civilizations dominated two extensive blocks of history and flurished. The point being, why can’t you idiots let God judge our actions? We and he does not need your help to tell us how we should live.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:19 amRegardless as to whether it is nature or nurture, innate / developmental / degenerative / choice, the political reality is this. Gay activists are trying to parley the American public’s tolerance of the homosexual lifestyle into acceptance of homosexual unions as equal to heterosexual unions between one man and one woman. Unfortunately, instead of moving the American public towards their goal gradually with civil unions through the legislative process, while respectfully appealing to Christian compassion, democrats tried to ramrod gay marriages through the courts while deriding Christians as bigotted.
The backlash of this tactic was swift, strong and decisive, and will be very, very long lasting. It is a lesson to democrats that by picking a fight, you just might lose ground, not gain it.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:20 amChase > most Gay guys do not have a lisp thing > those who do that want to do so as some kind of playacting! Just the same as some guys acting like John Wayne > lol.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:24 amtried to ramrod gay marriages
heeehehheheheee
July 20th, 2006 at 11:24 amFact: I was born gay. I have always been gay. There was never a time in my life when I wasn’t gay. I struggled with my gay identify, but not because I was a confused straight boy. I WAS GAY LIVING IN A STRAIGHT WORLD!
Dobson can go and jump off a cliff. His ignorance on the issue is no match for the experience of my own life and of millions of other people.
If the moonbats on the rapture right really want to “prove” that sexual orientation is a choice then let’s see them take a straight guy and turn him gay. If sexuality is that malleable, then by all means prove it.
In the meantime, stop messing with my life and my civil rights! Stop fighting tooth and nail to keep me and people like me in second class status. Screw you, Dobson and your girdle-throwing mama too!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:25 amso, people with lisps are gay? I was not aware of that. Whodathunk my neighbor with 4 kids and a beautiful wife, is gay because of a lisp. Wait’ll I tell him!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:26 amYou know,
I agree that Gays and Lesbians should have equal rights and should be able to have a legaly recognized partner.
So I think it should be called a civil union and a couple in a civil union should have the same protection and rights, as a married couple.
I just don’t like the term “Marriage.”
sorry to all the people on the other team….
July 20th, 2006 at 11:28 amJason LOL > nobody has denigrated marriage by demanding equal rights for Gays and Lesbians! Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:29 amI seriously worry about the mental capacity of anyone who has ever heard dogs mooing…
July 20th, 2006 at 11:30 amUgh, the whole “dog mooing” thing started with the BornDifferent people. What a terrible, TERRIBLE campaign. Why not try to correlate it to something like albinoism, which while similarly “broken” from a purely biological perspective carries no moral stigma?
Personally, I think there’s too much focus on genetic causes and too little focus on developmental causes. There have been recent studies (cited in a recent The Economist article) that indicate that hte likelihood of a woman having a gay son increases as the number of male children she has increases. This was true whether the sons were raised together or separately, and did not appear when the woman had previously-adopted step-sons.
Which indicates that homosexuality is more likely due to hormonal or developmental factors relating to the mother and child, rather than something like a “gay gene”. It also strongly suggests that homosexuality isn’t a choice, but has some root biological cause.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:32 am#18 - Fair, not most. But many, many, many. Most of the gay males I know (my mother is a hairdresser - I’ve known gay guys my whole life).
But why is it so common (it is, stop acting like it’s not)? Is it a ‘gay culture’ thing?
I really don’t know.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:34 amJonathon > do not worry about what other people think about your life! I believe that everybody should mind their own business!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:34 amDobson is not human as he has show to be no more intelligent than chimps.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:36 amI think that the same “christian compationate republicans” should be out againt adultry in full force, because that’s why really destroys marriage..
I think that Bill O’Rielly, Rudy Giuliani, Bob Dole, and Rush Limbaugh, should all take a strong stand against adulty….
Oh wait….they all cheated on their wives….Damn it.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:37 amPeople are born white, black, and yellow. People are born missing limbs, or with an extra limb. Some people are born with brains that cause them learning disabilities.
Some people are born with certain phobias.
There are so many varieties of people, that aren’t “normal” in terms of both physical elements and mental elements.
So why can’t someone be born attracted to the opposite sex?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:40 amThey have to make ridiculous comparisons like this because if they focused on all mammal sexuality they would find many reasons that male dogs have sex with other male dogs. Of course, they aren’t necessarily gay but more about dominance and leadership…but it happens in all mammals. If there is a difference it is because human beings attach emotion to sexual behaviour more than dominance and social heirarchy.
Re; #26. My GF used to be a dancer and still occasionaly teaches dance. So I’ve met a small number of gay men. Not one of them has had a lisp and I think only one has even been the effeminate cliche. The others were just regular guys.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:41 amChase > since you have been around Gay guys in the hair cutting profession, then no wonder you hear the lisp thing a lot! Hollywood movies kind of promoted the thing that Gays working in salons have a lisp, so like I said it’s playacting!
July 20th, 2006 at 11:41 am#32 - So they are just acting like that, to keep up with their common perception?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:44 amBut LISP wasn’t a computer language widely used for Artificial Intelligence?
/Computer Geek Joke off
July 20th, 2006 at 11:48 amI want to know when Dr. Dobson recived his Ph.D. in science and gained the authority to say this? LAst time I checked he only had a degree in psychology. They just seem to forget that God created each one of us individually. I cannot see anyone choosing to be gay becuase of all the problems they experience. Why would ayone choose this?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:49 amSo they are just acting like that, to keep up with their common perception?
Comment by Chase — July 20, 2006 @ 11:44 am
Most of the openly gay people I know do not have a lisp, or any other speech defect of any kind.
I am willing to bet some of the people you know are homosexuals and you haven’t even noticed -a lot of gay people work hard at concealing their sexual orientation for fear of public shame, fear of losing friends and/or having to sever contact with their families.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:50 amOh, and the association of nature’s traits to heterosexuality is simply lame. Any lover of Science channels in TV knows that there is a BIG LOT of examples of homosexual acts, tendencies and rituals in the nature. And many animals can change sex in their lifetimes. Or have both. Of course heterosexual interaction is needed in developed species to breed, but even this isn’t a must. Take starfishes, for example. If a limb is severed from the main body, the main body will grow another limb and, from the severed limb will grow another full body.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:53 amDobson and others of his stripe will,I hope,some day have voices that are not heard.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:55 amOh but come on…that scene where the penguin gets a drink at the watercooler and decides to be gay is hilarious.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:57 amOl’ SpongeDob sure does worry what “teh gays” are doing to each other.
I wonder why?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:01 pmYes Chase they are playacting > perhaps for your benefit? Limp wrist thing is also just an act too! Most Gay guys act masculine, so you probably never notice them in public!
July 20th, 2006 at 12:03 pmJason LOL > nobody has denigrated marriage by demanding equal rights for Gays and Lesbians! Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 20, 2006 @ 11:29 am
But in Scandanavia, the legalization of gay marriage has caused heterosexual couples to wait until after the birth of their second child to get married.
The previous news was brought to you by a citizen in my community who is against gay marriage and used this reasoning to support his view. No, really. He wrote a column in our local newspaper.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:12 pmPeople are born with reproductive organs that conflict with their chromosomes.
Vote Independent. Vote for Moral Foreign Policy.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:15 pm“Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.â€
And no human being is born with hatred or intolerance.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:15 pmPost 42 WC > those who are against Gays getting hitched use any excuse they can find!
July 20th, 2006 at 12:15 pmThe bible states that homosexuality is wrong.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#25. “Brain Sex”, “Why men don’t iron”, and “Sex on the brain” cover this topic very well. I read Brain Sex several years ago and it really changed my views. Fetal development has a great impact on fetal outcome. A surge of hormomes may crate a hyper-feminine female or a homosexual male. There IS scientific evidence, one just has to look past their bias.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:21 pmAnd yet we have newborn puppies that will suck the teats of a hog to get their daily requirement of milk.
And the hog lets them! Now that’s just not right!
The hog should know better. She should be able to look at those puppies and realize that they are not hogs and refuse to roll over for them.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:22 pmWe must try to remember that James Dobson was severly abused as a child, primarily by his mother. He has never sought therapy to deal with how this has affected his life. His preoccupation with matters of sexuality, especially with homosexuality, would seem to indicate that he has serious issues that clearly need addressing. His intense need to stamp out homosexuality, because it is a ‘threat’, is a cry for help. Does he hope that by stamping it out of everyone else that it will stamp it out in him too? I am not saying that he is Gay, how could I know that? But he does have an issue with it, that is his alone. He just uses religion to hide behind.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:22 pmComment by Daryll
Is this the same Bible the was translated in 200 different flavors, and completely lost its authenticity?
Or is it the Bible that instructed christians to go on crusades?
Or is it the Bible that led to the abuses of the church in the Middle Ages?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:24 pmActually I am surprised that James Dobson believes so strongely in the sanctity of heterosexual marriage, since his mother abused him horribly, and his father beat him too?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:24 pmHe is the product of bad parenting, so he should not be telling others how to live their lives!
Adultery is the cause of most marriages falling apart in the US anyways!
Ah, come on. Don’t people get it? If a gay couple moves in next door to me and is allowed the same rights as the dh and me, well there goes my marriage. Because after all, the only thing holding my marriage together is discrimination against others.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:28 pmHit “post” too soon. Yes, that was meant to be sarcastic.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pmPost 42 WC > those who are against Gays getting hitched use any excuse they can find!
Comment by Jay Randal — July 20, 2006 @ 12:15 pm
Yep. Those couples had been getting married after the birth of their first child. Gay marriage changed that. I can clearly see the connection (wink, wink).
July 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pmWell post 52 > some people like Dobson believe that > lol.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pmPeople are born cross gendered.
Cats are born with 2 faces.
People are born with both sexual organs.
These are the things Christians deny.
This is why Christians should not have a hand in Americas morality.
Vote Independent. Vote for Moral Foreign Policy.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pm#46-Daryll, the bible also states that eating lobster is wrong. But I never hear people preaching against that. With the exception of PETA, that is. And I don’t think they are against it because it says so in the bible.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pmIsrael and Clinton and the DLC are coming out in full force support for Lieberman.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:31 pmThe bible states that homosexuality is wrong.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:18 pm
The bible also says that gambling is wrong. Or so says a former co-worker. That’s why he was against the creation of our state lottery. I guess the high school kids in our state who get to attend college that is paid by lottery proceeds are all going to hell.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:33 pmPost 54 WC > there would only be a connection, if the husbands ran off to get married with their best buddies, instead of marrying their girl friends > hint! ( Sarcasm on.)
July 20th, 2006 at 12:33 pmComment by Daryll
Is this the same Bible the was translated in 200 different flavors, and completely lost its authenticity?
Or is it the Bible that instructed christians to go on crusades?
Or is it the Bible that led to the abuses of the church in the Middle Ages?
Comment by Jebus loves me — July 20, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
July 20th, 2006 at 12:34 pm_______________________________________________________________________________
I’m really not sure why it was translated in 200 different flavors. Man (including you) has stated the bible has lost it’s authenticity, but not so. Everything that the bible instructed will happen has happened/is happening (read Revelations). Also, Jesus did instruct his children to go ye into all the world and teach his gospel. Some people misinterpret the bible, but the bible is written with instructions that are plain as day.
Post 58 > How about Hillary marrying Joe and they run off together to Israel?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:36 pm#13 The only person I know with a “gay lisp” is a heterosexual friend of mine. Though he is married with kids, and clearly not confused about his sexuality, he says people always assume that he’s gay because of his speech impediment. Isn’t it interesting that people in 2006 still assume that benign physiological manifestations such as speech impediments are an indication of a person’s sexual orientation? Isn’t it amazing that what a person wears, how he styles his hair, what he does for a living and even how he crosses his legs, is a constant concern of heterosexual men as if one inerrant gender role violation or one inappropriate gesture will render them instantly homosexual?
So as for your question: I don’t know any homosexuals who lisp but I will ask your question to my heterosexual friend and get back with you with his answer. I’m pretty sure what his answer will be.
While we’re waiting for my friend’s reply let me ask you a few much more reasonable questions? You can get back with me later on your answers:
1. Why is it that the more educated a person is, and the more exposed a person is to the wider world, the less likely they are to be racists, sexists, xenophobes and homophobes?
2. Why is it that racists are also overwhelmingly sexist, xenophobic and homophobic?
3. Why is it that so many straight people believe that sexual orientation can be changed from heterosexual to homosexual but almost no gay people seriously do?
4. Do straight people that believe sexual orientation is changeable fight a constant battle to remain straight or is it just that they believe everybody else BUT them does?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:38 pmThe bible also says that gambling is wrong. Or so says a former co-worker. That’s why he was against the creation of our state lottery. I guess the high school kids in our state who get to attend college that is paid by lottery proceeds are all going to hell.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
July 20th, 2006 at 12:39 pm_________________________________________________________________________________
It is indeed wrong. There are other avenues that can be used other than gambling. No excuse. It states in the bible that governments will rule, but to follow the ultimate law, which is his word.
Why do dogs lick their own butts? Should we do that now?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:42 pm#17, Hey, Hendler, so you think it would have been better for interracial unions to be called by another name? Just as long as they take baby steps, right? Ridiculous. It’s all or nothing. And if you think for one minute gay marriage will forever be prohibited, you’re fooling yourself. It’s coming. It may take 50 years, but it’s coming.
Why don’t you ask African Americans if they would be satisfied having their unions called by a different name? Let’s see what kind of response you get.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:42 pmThat’s Bill Clinton.
Vote Independent. Vote for Moral Foreign Policy.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:44 pm#46-Daryll, the bible also states that eating lobster is wrong. But I never hear people preaching against that. With the exception of PETA, that is. And I don’t think they are against it because it says so in the bible.
Comment by Cyra Brown — July 20, 2006 @ 12:30 pm
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Yes it is also considered unrighteous. The bible states that it isn’t easy serving christ because of temptations, but if you want to see the kingdom of god (heaven) then you will go through a lot of pain/temptation.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:44 pmDaryll,
Do you believe that every word in the Bible came from God?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:45 pmIt is indeed wrong. There are other avenues that can be used other than gambling. No excuse. It states in the bible that governments will rule, but to follow the ultimate law, which is his word.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
So what about those high school kids?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:47 pm[…] “Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.†[…]
July 20th, 2006 at 12:49 pmDaryll,
Do you believe that every word in the Bible came from God?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 12:45 pm
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Yes, because he also stated in the bible that he is the word, and the word is him. The bible also states that no one should take bits and pieces of the word, but should preach the complete word for the unrighteous to understand. It’s all about bringing the unrighteous to christ, Glory to God!!! If you consider yourself as following in the ways of holiness then you can’t practice homosexuality because it’s condemned in his word. There is a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:52 pmAnd so since every word in the Bible came directly from God, it stands to reason that those words carry considerable more authority than, say, the word of man. Is that correct?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:54 pmSo what about those high school kids?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:47 pm
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This is where we should go to the rich. They should give even more. This society is financially uneven because of the greed of the rich.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:54 pmAnd so since every word in the Bible came directly from God, it stands to reason that those words carry considerable more authority than, say, the word of man. Is that correct?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 12:54 pm
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Most definitely, man will fail, but god doesn’t. This is also explained in the bible. Always trust in him and never doubt. Read Revelations. This life on earth is temporary. The ultimate goal for everyone, per the bible, should be to make it heaven and be considered worhty.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pmThis is where we should go to the rich. They should give even more. This society is financially uneven because of the greed of the rich.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 12:54 pm
Answer the question. Are the kids who accept lottery proceeds to attend college going to hell because of the fact that the money was collected in a sinful way?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pm#72: Cool, so given that you “preach the complete word”, we can assume you follow the Biblical directives on how to treat your slaves. Wait, you do have slaves, right?
July 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pmI’ll accept that argument as being a valid metaphor…
After someone can get a dog to moo at all.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:58 pmSo, it’s safe to say, then, that the Bible provides us with a set of instructions, a template, so to speak, for how to lead our lives. Right?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:00 pmDogs at birth don’t start humping your leg, but give them some time.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:00 pmAnswer the question. Are the kids who accept lottery proceeds to attend college going to hell because of the fact that the money was collected in a sinful way?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
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No, because they didn’t commit the sin.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:04 pmWell I see the born different crowd here devolves into name calling and not itelligent dialogue. Dobson is right. The reader should ask God, he will give you the conviction to know the truth.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:05 pmTell me, Daryll, do you go to church? I assume you do. Did your preacher attend seminary school? Does he have any additional religious training?
If so, why? If he was called by God to preach the gospel, and God is almighty and all powerful, why did your preacher have to go to college to learn about the Bible and be trained to be a preacher? Where in your Bible does it say that man must receive additional training to preach the word of God? Does your religious organization (Methodist, Baptist, etc.) require a college degree before someone is allowed to preach to its members?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:06 pmSo, it’s safe to say, then, that the Bible provides us with a set of instructions, a template, so to speak, for how to lead our lives. Right?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
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Correct, the complete bible. The bible states that you should live your life according to the world even if society criticizes you.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:06 pmSome people misinterpret the bible, but the bible is written with instructions that are plain as day.
Comment by Daryll
Then I suggest you stay in the closet.
There is a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
Comment by Daryll
Don’t be ridiculous, Daryll.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:07 pmTell me, Daryll, do you go to church? I assume you do. Did your preacher attend seminary school? Does he have any additional religious training?
If so, why? If he was called by God to preach the gospel, and God is almighty and all powerful, why did your preacher have to go to college to learn about the Bible and be trained to be a preacher? Where in your Bible does it say that man must receive additional training to preach the word of God? Does your religious organization (Methodist, Baptist, etc.) require a college degree before someone is allowed to preach to its members?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:06 pm
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It doesn’t. That’s society’s standards. God will call whoever whenever to preach the gospel (it has been proven in the bible). These days there are a lot of false prophets within are midst. That’s the reason why bible states to be careful and know the word for yourselve. Your preacher isn’t going to save you from unrighteousness, only god.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:10 pmJames is correct. Dogs do not moo. Neither do they beat their pups.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:10 pmNo, because they didn’t commit the sin.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:04 pm
But they encourage the sin by accepting the money. Doesn’t that make them an accessory to the sin? Isn’t that money “tainted?” After all, it was used to commit an act of sin.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmChase: “Has anyone ever tried to explain the “gay lispâ€? Is that something homosexuals are born with?” - - “Thufferin’ thucotash! Ya mean I’m GAY??” - Sylvester
July 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmDon’t be ridiculous, Daryll.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
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I’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:13 pmComment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Come on, Daryll. Answer the rest of the question.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:14 pmRE: Comment #23
Yeah, because “seperate but equal” works SO well, doesn’t it? Face it, even if you gave us “civil unions” that were literally every bit the same as marriage, but didn’t call it marriage, then it’d still be psychologically different, discriminatory, even.
As for Dobson, he’s completely out of touch with reality. If he thinks I woke up one day and said “Gee, I feel like having most of society hate me for no good reason!” and chose to be gay, he’s insane.
Oh, and Daryll, hon…no one cares. Really. The bible says a LOT of things are “wrong”, like eating shrimp (right there in the same book as your precious condemnation of homosexuality).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:14 pmSo when was the last time you thought Red Lobster should be illegal based on biblical law, hmmm?
I didn’t think so.
No, read the Galatians.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:16 pmAfter years of study and tests on millions of humans DNA Dobson can now qualitatively prove that humans can not be born with variances in physical sexual orientation…
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/102/17/6045
http://www.genetics.org/ cgi/ content/ abstract/ 153/ 2/ 1055
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/ news/ 2004/ 07/ 0722_040722_gayanimal.html
July 20th, 2006 at 1:16 pmThe bible states that you should live your life according to the world even if society criticizes you.
I think you maybe meant to say “word” instead of “world,” but that’s OK.
On one of yesterday’s threads, I brought up the story of Lot’s daughters as an example of something in the Bible that I find very difficult to square in purely moral terms. I’m frankly not really sure what I would say to one of my own kids if they asked me to explain to them what lesson they should take away from the example of two young women who get their father drunk, “lay with him” (i.e., have sex with him), and then bear his children.
If, as you stated, we should live our lives according to the word even if society criticizes us, are we to assume that the Bible is sanctioning incest?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:17 pmDaryll
your a good man who believes in God and the Bible, and I respect that.
I also recognize that you want to do the right thing.
However, I believe that GOD, in whatever form we believe him to be is full of Love and that he doesn’t discriminate between people.
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:20 pmBorn gay…know what? I don’t care. It’s a moot subject. We have the freedom to be who we wish to be, SO LONG AS WE DON’T INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS! Okay, sorry ’bout that. (I know we all loathe all-caps, but I wanted to make a point) Any one who stands up and vows to devote their life to another human being, I applaud their devotion. More than HALF of all straight marriages in this country don’t last three years, (adultery, financial issues, stagnation) AND a guy dressed as Elvis has the power to pronounce you man and wife, uh-huh-huh. So, where’s the sacred part come in? I’ve yet to hear a decent argument to keep fags and lesbians from legally benefitting from their relationship. Sure, dogs don’t moo, but dogs aren’t people either? Have we forgotton that gays are PEOPLE?! Seriously, take one out to lunch, go shopping, walk your dogs together. Form friendships, get to know your fellow human beings. Leave the sex in the bedroom, or the kitchen if that’s what you’re into. I don’t care if you’re born gay or straight, love who you want. It’s mind-boggling how the faithful have made love evil and wrong….and the ACT of making love evil and wrong as well.
“[Christians who are against gays] also believe that we should be FRUITFUL. . .and multiply. Boy, they walk a tight rope every day, don’t they? ‘How do we be fruitful and not think about it? We can sing hymns during it: One stroke at a time, sweet Jesus. . .One stroke at a time…sweet Lord’” -Bill Hicks
July 20th, 2006 at 1:20 pmAll this talk about if gay is right or wrong. People listen up when or if you get to heaven you’ll see that God loves all humans so if you don’t like gays now just hope that you aren’t in the group in heaven with gays. That might be the one question God ask you that could mean heaven or hell. Do you love all of Gods children or are you prejudice. I bet many will change their answer then so here on earth at this time say what ever you want and follow the prejudice Administration but join God’s group in heaven by accepting all or go to where it is 1000 degrees and hotter your choice,
July 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmCome on, Daryll. Answer the rest of the question.
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
No, there only attending the school. They’re not taking the money directly. The blood is on the state’s and county schools’ hands.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:24 pmcan we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter? - -
July 20th, 2006 at 1:26 pm“I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
While thinking about that, can I ask another? My employees insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?
Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this (country): touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?”
Jesus fulfilled the law. The most important thing is to love God with all of your heart. Second, love your neighbor as you love God. Anyone who goes around pointing out homosexuals are not neighbors is not of God, but of the evil one.
Also, why is it necessary for Mr. Dobson to lie?
Do either of these studies state that people are not born gay?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:26 pmDaryll
your a good man who believes in God and the Bible, and I respect that.
I also recognize that you want to do the right thing.
However, I believe that GOD, in whatever form we believe him to be is full of Love and that he doesn’t discriminate between people.
can we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter?
_________________________________________________________________________________
Correct, one of the laws is not to hate our fellow man. Even though I don’t know each and everyone of you, I love you all in an agape manner, but I dislike the sins that commit as well as the sins that I commit. Once I commit a sin, repent quickly and try not to commit the sin again.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll
The world isn’t black and white, as much as you may want it that way, Daryll. Given your set of circumstances, no, they cannot reproduce. But we don’t put homosexuals on separate islands and leave them to die.
A lesbian woman can reproduce as easily as I can, through artificial insemination, or heterosexual contact; a gay man can reproduce through similar methods.
You have been proven wrong.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:28 pmDogs are not mooing…
But assholes are creating webpages.
Awesome.
This site is ghey.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:30 pmHey, Dobson, babies aren’t born sexually active. They *choose* to be sexually active sometime later in life. You know, the way you chose to be a strong, God-fearing, apple-pie-lovin’, heterosexual man?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:35 pmComment by Daryll
But sin and repentance is between you and God and Government shouldn’t intervene. If you believe that Gay marriage is a Sin, then that’s your belief…
However, the government has no right to push that belief on us
July 20th, 2006 at 1:36 pmComment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
Money raised from a sinful act is paying for it. It’s sin money. The Devil’s money.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:36 pmcan we at least agree on this point, instead of condemning eveybody that doesn’t follow the Bible to the letter? - -
“I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
While thinking about that, can I ask another? My employees insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?
Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this (country): touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?â€
Comment by Badmoodman — July 20, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
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Let’s be logical, the bible said thou shalt not kill. Also, later in the New Testament the bible denounced slavery and bondage (Please read).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pmComment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Come on, Daryll. Answer the rest of the post at #87.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pmHey homophobe? How many souls will be lost because James Dobson can’t stomach gay sex? The idea that gays should change before entering the church is wrong.
Let’s leave homosexuals alone. Those of us who are Christian should be sweet, as Jesus has commanded us. We should be giving them the shirts off our backs. The homosexuals will wonder what makes us so sweet and will want to be a part of it. If God wants them to change, we’ll have brought them to the table where they can be reached. It is not for anyone to pass judgement on another.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pmDaryll,
You may have missed it, but I’d like you to comment on my earlier post (#99).
July 20th, 2006 at 1:40 pmI’m not being ridiculous it’s a fact. If you put gays on one island and lesbians on another they would die out, correct (prove me wrong).
Comment by Daryll
So God knew there would be homosexual men and women. Did he know that before he created man and woman? Hmmmm. He knew it would happen, yet he allowed it anyway.
Are you saying that is the sole reason why he created man and woman so that they could not reproduce with others of the same sex, simply because they may turn gay?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmThe law is for you to follow, not for you to enforce.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmThe world isn’t black and white, as much as you may want it that way, Daryll. Given your set of circumstances, no, they cannot reproduce. But we don’t put homosexuals on separate islands and leave them to die.
A lesbian woman can reproduce as easily as I can, through artificial insemination, or heterosexual contact; a gay man can reproduce through similar methods.
You have been proven wrong.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
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I used that example as an analogy. If it was meant to be wny would you have to go back to the naturally intended gender to reproduction. The bible also states the reproduction method was created for a married man and woman. Your method is contradictive to the word.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmI have no idea if this is related but there is a mooing dog in Apple Computer’s past.
The mascot and semiofficial emblem of Claris Software [Appleworks, Clarisworks and Filemaker] was Claris the Dog-Cow. The original icon looked less like a dog than a airdale - holstein mutt. Anyway the tagline for Claris was “Moof”.
Given Apple’s policies about partner’s and even their former rainbow logo, I could see the wingnuts use that as a starting point. Or… their PR firm almost certainly is an all Mac shop and may be playing a subtle joke on Dobson.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:47 pmh yes, of course, aryll, the bible mentions homosexuality in books other than Leviticus, so that makes my point about Leviticus condemning eating shrimp totally irrelevant…
July 20th, 2006 at 1:47 pmWait, no it doesn’t.
Ass.
I’d also like to point out that, assuming God did indeed create everything in the universe, that means he created me and made me gay, so who are you to second guess him?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:51 pmFunny how no one ever brings up that point.
These idiots remind of church officials in the time of Copernicus: despite scientific evidence, they continue to insist on their version of reality.
Why do people even listen to them?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:55 pmShin Gallon, you were much more polite. If I had seen your comment before I posted my own, I would have restrained myself. I actually have no standing in this fight, since I’m a straight woman.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:57 pm“These idiots remind of church officials in the time of Copernicus: despite scientific evidence, they continue to insist on their version of reality.
Why do people even listen to them?”
Because they’re sheep, and thinking for themselves is just too hard, so they let JAYYYYSUS do all their thinking for them. Life’s easy when you mindlessly follow ancient mistranslated folk tales found on scrolls in the desert 2000 years ago!
July 20th, 2006 at 1:58 pmZooey,
As a rational, thinking human being, you most certainly do have a standing in this.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:00 pm#77-Daryll, you say that “god doesn’t fail…” Were Adam and Eve A success? They did get kicked out of Eden, after all. Cain murdered Abel, God is against that, you know. Why didn’t he just ’scrap’ them, and start over? Who’s to know? Come to think of it, How do we even know that this all REALLY happened. We are supposed to take somebody’s word for it, but according to the story here people have been sinning since the very beginning. How can we be sure they weren’t just lying?Godknewhis ‘creations were flawed, and he was ok with it then, so he must be ok with it now.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmActually, Zooey, you do have a standing, because everyone that believes in equality and fairness and basic human decency has a standing in this fight. We all have to stand up to intolerant hateful bigots like Dobson and his ilk, or they’ll drag us back to the dark ages (where gay people were stoned to death and women were basically property, no better than a donkey or field plow).
July 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmSo God knew there would be homosexual men and women. Did he know that before he created man and woman? Hmmmm. He knew it would happen, yet he allowed it anyway.
Are you saying that is the sole reason why he created man and woman so that they could not reproduce with others of the same sex, simply because they may turn gay?
Comment by WC — July 20, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
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Yes, God wanted to terminate man, but Jesus died on the cross to save us. These sins are planted on earth as a test to determine who’s really loyal to him. Are you loyal to Christ? And No, he didn’t create marriage just for reproduction to turn away gays. Jesus loves the union of a man and woman. It also explains in Mark that he rather that man and woman marry then commit fornication.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmDaryll,
I’m still interested in getting your comments on my earlier post (#99), especially in light of what you just wrote.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:03 pmI’d also like to point out that, assuming God did indeed create everything in the universe, that means he created me and made me gay, so who are you to second guess him?
Funny how no one ever brings up that point.
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
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He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#77-Daryll, you say that “god doesn’t fail…†Were Adam and Eve A success? They did get kicked out of Eden, after all. Cain murdered Abel, God is against that, you know. Why didn’t he just ’scrap’ them, and start over? Who’s to know? Come to think of it, How do we even know that this all REALLY happened. We are supposed to take somebody’s word for it, but according to the story here people have been sinning since the very beginning. How can we be sure they weren’t just lying?Godknewhis ‘creations were flawed, and he was ok with it then, so he must be ok with it now.
Comment by Cyra Brown — July 20, 2006 @ 2:01 pm
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They were used as examples to prevent us from committing those same acts.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:09 pmDobson should know the kinds of noises puppies make. He’s the one who
kicked the living crap out of his own dog, just to “show him who’s boss” — and in a valiant fight to the finish over ownership of a furry toilet seat cover.
What a sicko.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:12 pm“He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.”
I did? When did I do tat? Was it when I was a kid and I noticed I was more interested in seeing other “boy parts” than I was “girl parts”? Was it when I was a teenager and I thought about other guys all the time? Was it when I fell in love with another guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him? Or when I noticed that I found the thought of sex with a woman boring (sorry girls, no offense, you’re lovely, you just don’t “do it” for me).
July 20th, 2006 at 2:12 pmLet me ask this: When did you decide to be straight? When did YOU make a concious decision to be heterosexual? Or were you simply always straight?
Then why assume it’s any different for me? Because your little book says so? Why not try thinking things through logically for a change?
He created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
So, am I correct in saying that when we’re faced with a difficult choice in life, God is actually testing us to see if we make the correct decision, that is, the decision that He knows is best.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:12 pmHe created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
So, am I correct in saying that when we’re faced with a difficult choice in life, God is actually testing us to see if we make the correct decision, that is, the decision that He knows is best.
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
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Correct. Isn’t his grace and mercy glorious?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:22 pmThanks, Shin Gallon & Bob’s Your Uncle,
I get pissed off and start running my mouth, er, keyboard. People like Daryll make me sick because they hold themselves out as morally superior to others, and that’s the kind of thinking that will destroy all of us.
I leave him/her to your tender mercies…my migraine is getting worse every minute.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:23 pmAll I could conclude from this vitriol is that James Dobson wants him some hot homo dog-sex. Do you think if he finds some, he’ll go away?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:24 pmJust had a thought — Could Daryll be Bar/Neil?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:25 pmCan we please use “Born Mooing” as a new euphemism for gay? That Richard Simmons guy was just born mooing.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:25 pm#66, Anon,
Marriage between one man and one woman is perfectly acceptable, so why would you even consider banning interracial marriage? Why would you even think to compare interracial marriage with homosexual marriage? What are you saying about other races to make such a comparison?
I personally don’t care if it becomes legal or not, it has nothing to do with me, but I thoroughly enjoy that liberals tried to intimidate Americans into accepting something or fear being labeled a bigot, and Americans stepped up to PERMANENTLY block it in their state constitutions. Take that!
July 20th, 2006 at 2:26 pmHe created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
The more I hear this statement (or something like it), the less true it sounds to me.
I have always been straight, as far back as I can recall. I cannot remember a time when I did not like girls, women, or when I did not feel a special attraction to at least one -whether a neighbor, a teacher, a friend, or a friend’s friend. Even as a small child I developed crushes on girls or female teachers.
Being physically intimate with another man is not an option for me, and I do not find the idea appealing. That thought has never once crosssed my mind as a matter of serious consideration.
In a nutshell: I did not choose to be heterosexual -I was born this way. Why would it be any different for a gay person?
Maybe the thought that one can choose one’s sexual orientation is what really scares the wits out of Dobson’s ilk: Deep down they are afraid that they might just be homosexuals, are repulsed by the idea, and it drives them to make hateful statements, undertake hateful actions.
Fear is a very powerful motivator.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:29 pmLet me follow up on this. I think most rational people would agree that we’re not born with any particular ideological bent, but that, rather, we gain our view of the world from those around us. Over time, we begin to form our sets of likes and dislikes, our preferences and prejudices based on a rather complex set of external influences.
Given this, can we infer that our choice to become a Democrat or a Republican is actually part of this decision-making test that God has devised for us? How do we know if we’ve chosen correctly?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:29 pmHe created you, but you made the decision to become a homosexual. You will have to deal with god about this issue.â€
I did? When did I do tat? Was it when I was a kid and I noticed I was more interested in seeing other “boy parts†than I was “girl parts� Was it when I was a teenager and I thought about other guys all the time? Was it when I fell in love with another guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him? Or when I noticed that I found the thought of sex with a woman boring (sorry girls, no offense, you’re lovely, you just don’t “do it†for me).
Let me ask this: When did you decide to be straight? When did YOU make a concious decision to be heterosexual? Or were you simply always straight?
Then why assume it’s any different for me? Because your little book says so? Why not try thinking things through logically for a change?
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
I am thinking logically according to the book. The bible states that a relationship between a man and a woman is a relationship that is recognized by god. There isn’t one single scripture that indicates god recognized identical gender relationships. A man and woman’s body parts are constructed for each other. Second, I’ve always been straight. I didn’t and currently don’t have the right to change my sexuality because the bible codemns homosexuality. You chose to be what you are. I can respect you and society may accept your sexuality, but the word condemns it.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:33 pmWell, I’ll just have to take my chances with your imaginary sky-god, then, won’t I?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:37 pmThanks, Shin Gallon & Bob’s Your Uncle,
I get pissed off and start running my mouth, er, keyboard. People like Daryll make me sick because they hold themselves out as morally superior to others, and that’s the kind of thinking that will destroy all of us.
I leave him/her to your tender mercies…my migraine is getting worse every minute.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2006 @ 2:23 pm
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I never considered myself morally superior. Previously, I indicated that I do commit sins myself, but I do repent. I don’t want to destroy you guys. I’m just informing you guys that homosexual actions are condemned by the word and the word is god.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:38 pmI am thinking logically according to the book….
[snip]
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
You know, when I read a sentence like that, I can’t help but think of Mao’s China.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:38 pmIn reading this site, they reference http://www.narth.com, the “national association for research and therapy of homosexuals.
doing my own research, the site is set up by Paul R. Payne consulting. Who is, interestingly, from Campus crusade for Christ. So, in doing more research it seems that the people with the “gay agenda” seem to be these few, far right wing christians who backup their research, WITH THEIR OWN RESEARCH!!!
July 20th, 2006 at 2:41 pmLet me follow up on this. I think most rational people would agree that we’re not born with any particular ideological bent, but that, rather, we gain our view of the world from those around us. Over time, we begin to form our sets of likes and dislikes, our preferences and prejudices based on a rather complex set of external influences.
Given this, can we infer that our choice to become a Democrat or a Republican is actually part of this decision-making test that God has devised for us? How do we know if we’ve chosen correctly?
Comment by Bob’s Your Uncle — July 20, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
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Correct. Society has categorized sexuality. You came out of your mother’s womb as a male/female. You make the decision to become heterosexual/homosexual. God has given each human a brilliant mind to determine what’s right and wrong according to the word. Please, I’m not vocally chastising anybody, but I’m trying to help save as many souls as I can. I wouldn’t want to spend eternity in hell, which consists of fire and brimstone (hott!!).
July 20th, 2006 at 2:44 pmFor the last time, Daryll, I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Must I repeat myself endlessly for you to get this simple point?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:46 pmDaryll, if you are Bar/Neil, please un-mask.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:47 pmGod has given each human a brilliant mind to determine what’s right and wrong according to the word.
So we have the capacity to make our own decisions, as long as the choices we make line up with what someone else has already decided is best for us?
July 20th, 2006 at 2:48 pmToo bad “the word” doesn’t condemn being an irrational troll on internet forums…
July 20th, 2006 at 2:51 pmBut it DOES condemn eating shrimp! I’ve mended my ways and will go protest outside seafood places now, thanks for helping me see the light, Daryll!
But it DOES condemn eating shrimp!
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
Don’t forget the mixed fabrics ban, and the seven-day timeframe when women are supposed to be “impure” (and everything they touch) every month.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:56 pmOh yeah, I forgot about those…
July 20th, 2006 at 2:57 pmSo why don’t we see Christofacist groups like Focus on the Family calling for constitutional amendments banning shrimp and other shellfish if those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law”? I really want to know.
People aren’t born mooing either, but dogs might be born gay.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:03 pmIf you ask me, and no one did, I think the gay rights movement is the civil rights issue of our time. My parents were at the forefront of the civil rights/open housing movement in the 1960’s and 1970’s, and now my children are able to live in a diverse community and attend integrated schools. That is my parent’s legacy. What will our legacy be? Will we accept the challenge of the gay rights movement and help our country move forward, or will we shirk our responsibility so that our children live in a more hostile environment than we were left. Our generation has to answer the bell, so to speak. If we don’t embrace the gay rights movement - including the fight for equal marriage rights - we will have failed our children. The time for equality is now.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:03 pmDon’t forget the mixed fabrics ban, and the seven-day timeframe when women are supposed to be “impure†(and everything they touch) every month.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 20, 2006 @ 2:56 pm
Now that you mention it, that whole mixed fabrics thing really sticks in my craw. In fact, I’m convinced that it poses a grave and serious threat to my all-cotton shirts. I’m going to write my legislator right now and suggest that he bring this issue up on the floor of Congress. Mark my words–I will not rest until the scourge of mixed fabrics is eliminated from American society!
July 20th, 2006 at 3:05 pmif those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law�
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
God’s law also bars women from teaching men, and prescribes death by stoning for adulterers and those who work on Sabbath.
Why are those laws ignored?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:05 pmI actually had a gay dog when I was a kid. You should have heard the way my parents tried to explain that one!
July 20th, 2006 at 3:06 pmSo was that pooch born favoring its right or left paw, or did it have a choice? Has anyone ever decided whether they were either left handed, right handed or both?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:07 pm> 156
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The reason why Dobson and his ilk are so determined to prove that gay people choose it is so they get to point and say “See, they just want to be perverts and deviants, and we’re saving you from them!” whereas if people realize that being gay isn’t a choice, Dobson is shown for the intolerant monster he is.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:11 pm> 158
July 20th, 2006 at 3:15 pmBecause the kind of psychotic nut that uses the bible as justification for hate is also the kind that picks and chooses his biblical laws to only speak out against things they themselves dislike.
If someone like Dobson (or our friend Daryll here) would call for ALL biblical laws to be made into US laws, not just the ones dealing with things they don’t like (like the fact that I enjoy sex with other guys), then at least they’d be consistent. They’d still be mootbat loco, but at least they wouldn’t also be hypocrites.
You make the decision to become heterosexual/homosexual.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
Then that means you did too, Daryll. Tell us when you made the decision.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:24 pmif those are ALSO condemned by “God’s law�
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
God’s law also bars women from teaching men, and prescribes death by stoning for adulterers and those who work on Sabbath.
Why are those laws ignored?
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 20, 2006 @ 3:05 pm
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Society has ignored those laws. Adultery is depicted as an abomination to christ and no you shouldn’t work on the sabbath (which is really Saturday, read your bible). And it is indeed wrong for a women to preach in the church because the man is considered the head. The scripture says that the woman is supposed to remain silent in the church when it pertains to teaching.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:26 pmThanks for confirming that you’re also a sexist in addition to a homophobe.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:30 pmPeople like you are exactly why I don’t go to church (well, that, and I don’t believe in any god or gods).
Daryll,
Do you have any objective evidence that the Bible is the literal and direct word of God?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:31 pmCome on, Daryll. Answer the rest of my post at #87. You only responded to one issue.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:32 pmBecause the kind of psychotic nut that uses the bible as justification for hate (…)
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
My question was rather rhetorical, but I appreciate your reply nonetheless. I agree with you, by the way.
The US would be an, uhm, interesting country indeed if all the prohibitions contained in the Bible were to be enacted as laws…. ::shudder::
July 20th, 2006 at 3:34 pmFor the last time, Daryll, I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Must I repeat myself endlessly for you to get this simple point?
Comment by Shin Gallon — July 20, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
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Please, help me understand how you were born gay. When you had urges for women you went after a woman, that’s a decision. You can’t be born gay because as a baby or toddler, you don’t have a sound mind. This doesn’t happen until you mature as a child.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:36 pmWhy are folks arguing with Daryll? He clearly isn’t going to let go of his views on the “literal” interpretation of “the word” and he clearly thinks the US government should be in the business of enforcing religious laws (from one particular interpretation of one particular religion).
We’re not going to bring him around to embracing the healthy effects on a society of keeping church and state separated. We’re not going to impress upon him the similarities between his views and those of certain oppressive regimes which follow other religions. And we’re not going to convince him that “literal” is in the eye of the beholder. Etc.
To rephrase the cliche, we’re wasting our time and amusing/engaging the pig. It’s noble, sort of, and entertaining, sort of, but I hope nobody thinks it’s going to sway Daryll.
July 20th, 2006 at 3:37 pmI think the website is wonderful but the mooing dog message is problematic and an easy target for the religious right who will point out that dogs aren’t naturally born to moo. Any dog that moo’s is going against his nature and would have to be trained (or recruited as it were) to ignore his instincts in order to moo. It seems that they have already launched their counter offensive. This just doesn’t seem to me the best ad campaign that $900K could buy.
#17
I agree that gay people have probably not used the most effective means to achieve marriage equality or gay rights in general. We have allowed our ideology and sense of fairness override our strategic planning. We have fought this battle as if we live in a fair and reasonable world rather than considering the FACT that we live in a country where most people still believe we are alien and a threat to tradition.
I often wonder about the thinking behind some of the people who claim to be fighting for equal rights. I am amazed at the methods which some people seem to feel is most effective in showing the world that we are not alien and not a threat to them and their families. I personally find Gay Pride Parades and Circuit Parties (in their current manifestations) to be ineffectual and even damaging to the gay rights movement. Some of the displays that go on in these exibitions make me uncomfortable as I find them to be inappropriate for public display (and I’m an out and PROUD gay man). Once a year drag queens, leather men in assless chaps, people who are obviously hyped up on drugs and overt displays of sex do not make the average American feel less threatened by gay people. It’s hard to tell people to stop defining us by our sexuality when that is exactly what we put front and center as the thing we are most PROUD of. I love TVs, TGs and TSs and want them to proudly march in the parade but some people seem to do drag only in these parades to hide their identitiy or to offend conservatives. Neither of these reasons has anything to do with Pride. I have NEVER, EVER heard a single person say that they came out or became more gay supportive because of seeing a gay pride parade or a circuit party. If the purpose of the parades has changed, then let’s say so. There seems to be something wrong with calling something “Gay Pride” that the vast majority of out, proud, gay people wouldn’t be caught dead in.
I also believe we are concerning ourselves too much with court battles and legislative fights when many of us haven’t even talked face to face, heart to heart with our parents, children, siblings, friends, neighbors and co-workers about the fact that we’re gay, much less talk to them about who we are, who we love, how we feel and why marriage equality is important to us. I think too many people want their State House, the Courts, Congress, the President, Hollywood or the straight guy down the street to stand up and fight for gay rights when they are too lazy or too cowardly to stand up for themselves and talk to the people that they see every day. I get sick to death of hearing people whine and complain about the way their friends and family believe everything that James Dobson, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson tell them about the way gay people are, how they feel and how they act only to find out that they’re in the closet and haven’t shown those people first hand what a gay person is, how he feels and how he acts. MOST gay people need to start taking personal responsibility for our successes and failures in the fight for equal rights. MANY gay people need to stop bitchin, get off of the damn bar stool, pull their balls out of their asses, find some courage, come out and talk to everyone who will listen, face to face and heart to heart about who we are, what we want and why. People don’t discriminate against people that they know and love. PERIOD! If people get to know you, as a person who happens to be gay, and love you, as a person who happens to be gay, they will not only NOT want to discriminate against you but they will also not want anyone else to discriminate against you.
Jason, I must take great exception with your use of the term “homosexual lifestyleâ€. That is a term that is used by anti-gay people in order to suggest that homosexual orientation is a lifestyle choice, like “surfer†or “hippieâ€.
Try this: Make up a list of the five top things that you feel defines a “homosexual lifestyleâ€. Then go out and ask ten gay people if their lifestyle matches the lifestyle definitions on your list. Remember: being attracted to someone of the same gender is NOT a lifestyle and having sex with a person of the same gender is NOT a lifestyle.
Whi