“Even superpowers have to talk to bad guys,”
By on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 1:09 pm
“Even superpowers have to talk to bad guys,”
writes former CIA deputy director John McLaughlin. “The absence of a diplomatic relationship with Iran and the deterioration of the one with Syria…leave the United States with fewer options and levers than might otherwise have been the case. … We will have to get over the notion that talking to bad guys somehow rewards them or is a sign of weakness. As a superpower, we ought to be able to communicate in a way that signals our strength and self-confidence.”
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Another good one from Frank Rich in “The Passion of the Embryos.”
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:10 pmTalk to the guy whos rapping your wife while your at it. See if he stops.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:13 pmI believe diplomatic ties must be maintained to every nation. The current situation is one in which we now have leverage over Syria by letting Israel run free to attack Syrian supported Hezbollah. Now would be an opportunity to let Syria know that they had better stop supporting Hezbollah and the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, or Israel might just march into Syria ….
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:15 pmYou know your Commander in Chief is the intellectual equivalent of the average Nickleodeon viewer when the CIA Deputy Director has to start using analogies that invoke the ficticious Batman and Spiderman to get his point across.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:16 pmI hope this isn’t the first time he’s spoken those words.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmThe Bush approach to diplomacy:You’re either with us or against us”.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:18 pmTalk to the guy whos rapping your wife while your at it. See if he stops.
Comment by troll — July 23, 2006 @ 1:13 pm
My guess is, like most things, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:19 pmNow would be an opportunity to let Syria know that they had better stop supporting Hezbollah and the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, or Israel might just march into Syria ….
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
By your logic, then Russia and China can support an invasion of Canada by Greenland and use it to let Britian know that they had better stop supporting George Bush or Russia and China might march into the U.S. There is no difference.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:22 pmAd hominem is allways the unbelievable approach. Not enough gray matter to attempt otherwise.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:27 pmThe smart popular girl in high school will know she should talk to everyone, not just her popular friends. She knows if she takes care to speak to the pimply kid with headgear, or help the kid with crutches carry his stuff, she will be loved and respected by the whole school. It doesn’t matter if she is motivated by altruism or pure selfishness, the end result is the same.
GWB likes to be popular, but he only likes to be popular with the popular kids, hence his ultimate downfall. Unfortunately, we all go down together.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:29 pm#8, unbelieveable,
What do you think the Cold War was? USSR, it’s satellites and communist allies WERE overthrowing their neighboring countries, bent on world domination, which is why the US, NATO and other allies were using CONTAINMENT to prevent those practices.
The US is removing threats from destablizing nations and allowing their citizens to develop constitutions and elect their own leaders, not forcing any type of political or religious beliefs on other nations.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:30 pm#10, zooey,
Good theory, it’s just not true. Bill Clinton worked hard to maintain his poll numbers with everyone, which led him to be ineffective against Al Quieda after the first WTC bombing, two embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing, etc., which eventually allowed them to attack the WTC, the Pentagon, and almost the White House. Focusing on popularity leaves you open to being played by those who are happy to smile while shaking your hand, but are also driving a knife into your ribs with the other hand.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:33 pmBill Clinton worked hard to maintain his poll numbers with everyone,
Nonsense. Clinton was popular because the country was humming along extremely well while he was in office, and he’s an incredibly bright and charasmatic person. He didn’t have to work hard at his poll numbers, he just worked hard at being president.
Want to take a guess as to how much sleep Clinton got on average compared to W? Want to take a guess as to the average deficit under Clinton vs. W? How about the national debt? Pick an issue aside from the tired arguments of Bin Laden (how’s W doing on catching him, BTW?)
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:42 pmAd hominem is allways the unbelievable approach. Not enough gray matter to attempt otherwise.
Comment by troll — July 23, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
That wasn’t an ad hominem. It was a fact. Facts can sometimes be negative.
I’d bet my IQ is at least 15 points higher than yours. It’s why you fail to see the obvious, and I don’t always feel like wasting my time to explain it to you.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:49 pmUnfortunately, we all go down together.
Comment by Zooey — July 23, 2006 @ 1:29 pm
That’s an excellent analogy. You must have been popular :)
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:50 pm“Even Superpowers have to talk to bad guys”…..As every day goes bad, I am less and less certain they realy are the “Bad Guys”. Just simply turn the tables. Put yourselves into the Palestenians shoes, the ones that have shoes, and look at America through their eyes. Then try on being Lebanese for a moment. Being bombes and driven from your country with the help and approval of the US government. I am pretty damned sure I would want to blow someone up, myself! And you have to delve into being Iraqi, just for a day. Do you see my point?
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:54 pmFocusing on popularity leaves you open to being played by those who are happy to smile while shaking your hand, but are also driving a knife into your ribs with the other hand.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
You completely missed my point, Jason. It’s not the popularity of the girl that’s important, it’s the common good of the school.
DrSinker says it better than I can in #13.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:54 pmWhat do you think the Cold War was?
Was? You think it’s over?
The US is removing threats from destablizing nations and allowing their citizens to develop constitutions and elect their own leaders, not forcing any type of political or religious beliefs on other nations.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 1:30 pm
That might very well be the theory, but the reality is that one of my friends has a Master’s Degreee in Architecture from the University in Baghdad. She earned this under Saddam’s rule. Under the current ‘administration’ women are being demoralized and having rights taken away from them that are against the religious rule built into their new Constitution. Sounds like many steps BACKWARDS. Not progress. Regress. And a lot of it.
It’s not about words Jason, it’s about actions. And in Iraq, the actions do not fit the words being spoken.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:54 pmYou must have been popular :)
Comment by unbelievable
Actually, I was invisible. :)
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:56 pmFirst, I didn’t know I was married (though with home affairs in South Africa, it is kinda hard to tell one week from the next)
Second, while I think rap isn’t a particularly good form of music, I get the vibe that interrupting the guy half way through would be rude.
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:58 pmActually, I was invisible. :)
Comment by Zooey — July 23, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
I find that hard to believe…
July 23rd, 2006 at 1:59 pmBruce – You’re hilarious :)
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:01 pm#18, unbelieveable,
The cold war has switched from USSR to China, agreed.
As far as actions, in both Afghanistan and Iraq, we’ve had:
1) constitutions ratified
2) elections held
3) new security forces trained
All this per the desires of their societies. Perhaps the women aren’t getting the same support as before, but I suspect no one is doing as well as they once were just yet – men or women, until the insurgents are defeated, then we can see how it all turns out. There should be more opportunities for everyone, not just the Sunnis …
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:02 pmBush wants war on Syria and Iran, so he does NOT want any diplomacy with them! He hopes Israel’s vicious attack on Lebanon might ignite his desired huge war on Middle East!
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:07 pmJason:
Your I.Q. is 15 points than unbelievable’s;na nana nana na. :p
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:08 pmAnd next she is going to tell us her shit stinks 15% less than ours.And that would be another incredible statement from such an asswipe.
As far as actions, in both Afghanistan and Iraq, we’ve had:
1) constitutions ratified
2) elections held
3) new security forces trained
All this per the desires of their societies. Perhaps the women aren’t getting the same support as before, but I suspect no one is doing as well as they once were just yet – men or women, until the insurgents are defeated, then we can see how it all turns out. There should be more opportunities for everyone, not just the Sunnis …
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 2:02 pm
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:08 pmWill hello Mr. sunshine–things are just peachy over there. I guess there must be a pony under that huge pile of horse $hit.
Jason M. Hendler
The cold war has not switched to China. China is America’s largest financial backer (look it up) followed by Saudi Arabia.
On second thought, it looks like there is a cold war going on there, and China is winning. After all, now that China has America over a barrel, it kind of hints at the end of America’s ability to contradict China’s aims in the world.
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:12 pm1) constitutions ratified
A constitution in Iraq that is less free and more religious than the situation before we attacked. Not progress
2) elections held
Big deal. Saddam held elections too. Only difference was that people didn’t shoot each other on that day…
3) new security forces trained
Yes, they seem to be doing quite a job of killing one another too.
All this per the desires of their societies.
How do you know this, since they weren’t mid-Revolution when we showed up?
Perhaps the women aren’t getting the same support as before, but I suspect no one is doing as well as they once were just yet – men or women,
How you typed that and missed teh ypocrisy in it is always a shock.
until the insurgents are defeated, then we can see how it all turns out. There should be more opportunities for everyone, not just the Sunnis …
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 2:02 pm
And what if we don’t defeat the insurgents? It is plausible since, after we attacked, Al Qaeda has become stronger than before we invaded.
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:22 pmComment by Gleeb — July 23, 2006 @ 2:08 pm
Your jealousy is transparent, Sybil-Denny-E.coli-Troll Alert-MA-etc.
My guess is that you sniff your own excrement to know.
Either contribute or STFU.
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:24 pmunbelievable > anybody who goes by the screen name of Gleeb is NOT worth anybody’s time on here > lol.
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:34 pmJay,
Getting any rain yet? We’ve had a bit since Friday. Probably kept the grass from certain dormancy. Lots of rumbling. I hope it means more.
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:37 pmJason:
Your I.Q. is 15 points than unbelievable’s;na nana nana na. :p
And next she is going to tell us her shit stinks 15% less than ours.And that would be another incredible statement from such an asswipe.
Comment by Gleeb — July 23, 2006 @ 2:08 pm
Jason has a fan club. Real mental giants one an all.
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:46 pm#31 – unbelievable,
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:50 pmWe just had a third of an inch in 20 minutes at Saint Augustine Beach.
Now would be an opportunity to let Syria know that they had better stop supporting Hezbollah and the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, or Israel might just march into Syria Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
Wow! Syria is supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan now!? That is the very first time I hear such a thing. Can you provide links, sources?
I always have read about the Taliban running across the border into Pakistan’s Pashtun areas where they enjoy wide support and where the Pakistani government forces do not dare enter because they are not welcome by the local tribal militia leaders.
It is also known that Pakistan has made several arrests of Taliban or pro-Taliban militias within their own borders over the years:
Pakistani police mounted more raids on Wednesday to catch suspected Taliban fighters living in Baluchistan province, and more than 200 Afghans have been arrested in the last three days, police said.
Arrests of suspected Taliban mount in Pakistan
As a matter of fact, I remember the US bombing of a Pakistani village in what was supposed to be an “anti-terrorist raid” earlier this year. It seems to me the US has a much stronger case against Pakistan than against Syria in this respect.
But then, why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:51 pmunbelievable > my area of Georgia got shafted on the rain, but south of Atlanta got clobbered! I am very worried about lack of rain, so I hope we get more than a stray brief shower?!
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:53 pmWalt I used to live in St. Augustine, Florida > I had a art gallery and coffee shop about a block from the old fort on Cuna Street!
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:55 pmSpanish Oak Gallery and Artists’ Cafe
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:57 pm#28, unbelieveable,
You conveniently parse my sentences to change their meaning. Until the INSURGENTS are defeated, no one will be living as well as they were before, especially the Sunnis, who used to control everything.
I laugh at the IQ banter. I’ve worked with many geniuses who couldn’t accomplish anything, but they produced many curiosities on the bench that couldn’t translate to manufacturing, much less the marketplace. What is required is a balance among many qualities that allow one the vision to navigate through or adapt to changing conditions.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:07 pm#10…. while I believe gwb would like to be popular, he reminds of kids in high school who came from wealthy families, had the cool cars, clothes, and money to throw around. Yes, they had “lots of friends” who were extremely shallow and out to pick up any scraps of recognition they could from their “friend.” george doesn’t have friends…he has people around him using his family name and goofy smile to get what they want from the rest of us.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:12 pmYes, superpowers do talk to bad guys. Most definitely. Does anyone remember the Iran-Contras affair? Or the American support for Indonesia’s corrupt strongman Suharto, and for Uzbekistan’s Karimov?
Why are they so squeamish now? Or are “bad guys” bad because they are not on *our* side?
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:16 pmYou conveniently parse my sentences to change their meaning.
Not at all. That’s your trick.
You just don’t understand what you’re saying. As a teacher, it is my job to help students understand. Seems you now understand, but just refuse to accept that it is your position. How very neocon of you.
Until the INSURGENTS are defeated, no one will be living as well as they were before, especially the Sunnis, who used to control everything.
Again, you dodge my question… what if the insurgents can’t be defeated? That violence is a part of that part of the world, and has been since people first occupied the area thousands of years ago? That it is their culture? Then what?
I laugh at the IQ banter. I’ve worked with many geniuses who couldn’t accomplish anything, but they produced many curiosities on the bench that couldn’t translate to manufacturing, much less the marketplace.
I was just hired to do a job because of all I’ve accomplished in the real world. So, your utterly obscure experiences are neither relevent nor interesting.
What is required is a balance among many qualities that allow one the vision to navigate through or adapt to changing conditions.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 3:07 pm
You don’t actually practice what you preach. If you did, you’d be upset with the actions of teh Bush Regime to homogenize the world into one big group of god-fearing Evangelical Christian s.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:18 pm#40, Gregor,
Not to worry, Syria will talk once they feel Israel breathing donw there necks.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:20 pm# 38.Jason.
But who cares? Her I.Q.(and her arrogance) are 15 pts.higher than yours.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:23 pmAnd her vegan poop stinks 15% less than yours.
Anyone seen the column by Juan Cole?
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:25 pmHere’s a quote:
That is why I was so shaken by George W. Bush’s overheard conversation with Tony Blair about the war. He clearly thought that it broke out because Syria used Hizbullah to create a provocation. The President of the United States did not know that this war was a long-planned Israeli war of choice.
Jason M. Hendler
She didn’t change your meaning. She simply disagrees with you on what each point points towards.
Go read the Iraqi constitution, I did. Its not a terribly promising sign when a nations constitution states outright that it bases its laws on religous law.
Further, the Insurgents, who all get nicely lumped together because nobody ever thinks that multiple guerrilla organisations might have the same idea, could conceivably win. She wasn’t changing your meaning, she was pointing out that America can lose.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:26 pmI’d rather be thought arrogant than thought to be a hypocritical war-monger with a third grade education, nothing to add to any conversation ever, and a psychotic obession with the odor of other people’s bowel movements.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:29 pmNot to worry, Syria will talk once they feel Israel breathing donw there necks.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 3:20 pm
I see -you choose the speculation that Syria is providing support to the insurgency in Afghanistan over the fact that Pakistan is.
But then, it is consistent with your support of Israel’s military offensive to save potential Israeli lives by killing actual innocent Lebanese civilians .
And with your stance to preserve frozen embryos that are potential human beings, over the prospect of saving actual people.
It is so relieving to find out you have your priorities straight.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:30 pmHere’s more from Juan Cole today:
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:31 pmWhat is scary is that Cheney and Rumsfeld don’t appear to have let W. in on the whole thing. They told him that Bashar al-Asad of Syria stirred up a little trouble because he was afraid that …Iraq and Lebanon successes would topple him. (Don’t fall down laughing at the idea of Iraq and Lebanon as Republican Party success stories; people in Washington, DC, coccoon a lot and have odd ideas about the way the world is.) So, Bush thought, if that is all that is going on, then someone just needs to call al-Asad and reassure him that we’re not going to take him out, and get him to rein in Hizbullah.
America can lose.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — July 23, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
Not a conceivable option for the young Mr. Hendler… Wonder what he’ll do when it happens. Deny it like Vietnam… That’s what my father did. He refused to accept that we lost a war. He said it was ‘tied’…
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:32 pm#49, unbelieveable,
It is not ours to win or lose, it is the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon, whose fledgling democracies are at risk. If insurgents like the Taliban again seize power, do you think the women in any of those countries will fare better or worse? Have you been measured for a burka?
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:46 pmHe said it was ‘tied’…
Comment by unbelievable — July 23, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
If so, it would be the first time an occupying power leaves a land/country for good -just as the occupied natives wanted- and we can still call it a “tie”.
I am sure the Vietnamese measure victory by the actual, desired outcome and not the way they got there.
Denial is more than just a river in Egypt.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:54 pmIt is not ours to win or lose, it is the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon, whose fledgling democracies are at risk.
Lebanon elected Hebollah for their leadership. And afghanistan and Iraq were doing better before we showed up.
If we weren’t interested in winning, we wouldn’t be there. You might say this is humanitarian efforts by our current Neocon regime in the White House, but it is not. It’s about establishing the American Empire in locations that support and grow the Empire. The Bushites are just using you to get what they want. And you fall for it every time they open their mouths.
If insurgents like the Taliban again seize power, do you think the women in any of those countries will fare better or worse?
You are speculating upon a presumption. Why don’t we go ahead and remove one of your lungs, your lower intestines and both of your testicles upon the speculation that you might one day develop a nasty case of cancer in one of those areas? It is NO different.
Have you been measured for a burka?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
I don’t live in Afghanistan.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:54 pmDenial is more than just a river in Egypt.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 23, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
It’s unfortunately why I understand the irrational neocon perspective. I lived with it. No wonder the man got cancer, became an alcoholic and died at age 59 without realizing most of his goals in life… Why I am working hard at not being anything like him. One of my brothers who is like him has already gone through chemotherapy for colon cancer. Younger brother.
I believe there’s definitely a correlation between neoconism and terrible ways to die.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:58 pm#38 – Jason M. Hendler,
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:03 pmDo you mean geniuses like Edwin Armstrong who invented FM radio. A guy named Sarnoff at RCA spent a career trying to push him aside. RCA (Sarnoff’s company) had a huge investment in AM radio and did not want any intruders on its territory (broadcasting). RCA’s efforts did lead to the development of the Ratio Detector when an RCA technician failed to properly copy Armstrong’s Phase Detector – he reversed a diode, but tinkered around and got it to work. The mathematics of the Ratio Detector were not fine-tuned until the early 60’s. They built while not understanding its principles. In the ’60s, engineers sat down and worked out the exact mathematics of the Ratio Detector in order to attempt to imbed it in silicon. Net result was the circuit was an accident and the invention of the Phase-Locked-Loop which relies on Armstrong’s invention for its soul.
Bottom line is that the true genius developed an item that was workable, marketable and manufacturable in future technologies while the lab tech managed to put together something that merely worked for the time being.
As a footnote, Armstrong committed suicide in 1954 after relentless hounding by RCA. The link is to his bio. Sorry for the length of this post, I think that this man was screwed by corporate greed.
What is this world coming to? wish i was more like you guys. i see what you all are saying. And there are ideas that might help the girlfreind. like stopping it. Nobody ever helped me before or i never asked.. help me
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:05 pmgeorge doesn’t have friends…he has people around him using his family name and goofy smile to get what they want from the rest of us.
Comment by Southwest Bob #39
Southwest,
…an awful lot of people are dying,…
…an awful lot of our taxpayer dollars are being stolen…
…it’s a lot more sinister than “goofy” (and by inference “innocuous”) smiles…
…Bushiva (and ALL who follow/are allied with him are murderous, sadistic, and roguish demons…
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:58 pmThe US is removing threats from destablizing nations and allowing their citizens to develop constitutions and elect their own leaders, not forcing any type of political or religious beliefs on other nations.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler #11
Jizz’son,
…you’re so stupid…
…you make rat sh*t/Bush look intelligent…
…Hezbollah and Hamas were democratically elected political parties…
…but you probably didn’t realize that…
…get your face out of Bushiva’s crotch…
…see the world…
…dumb a*s…
…sheesh!
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:05 pmunbelievable,
Glad you made it out…
…with your faculties obviously well intact…
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:06 pmAnyway to all you dumb ass republican warmongers
SOURCE Koreas Oh My News
Israeli missile strike killed seven members of a Palestinian family picnicking on a Gaza beach, which prompted Hamas to end its 16-month-old informal ceasefire with Israel. Hamas has repeatedly pointed to the Gaza beach incident as one of the central events that prompted its cross-border raid. Hamas also points to the capture of some of its leaders by Israel as the provocation for its raid.
TO ALL YOU REPUBLICAN TROOLS PUT UP OT SHUT THE F*CK UP
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:09 pmIt is not ours to win or lose, it is the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon, whose fledgling democracies are at risk.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
You just articulated a very good argument for the US to withdraw from both Iraq, and Afghanistan: Those countries’ problems are for their people to solve.
What you are talking about here is the basic right of all peoples of the world to self-determination. The US can certainly help, through international organisations that should get involved in helping Iraqis and Afghans rebuild their countries.
The US has no business “exporting” democracy by way of bombing, maiming, killing (of both actual and potential people, mind you), let alone mount pressure to get an elected prime minister to resign his post in Iraq.
As for Lebanon, its fledging democracy is at risk, as you rightly point out. One of the risks faced by it is the foreign military aggression and occupation of its territory which are fueling a humanitarian crisis.
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:11 pmPARLIAMENTARY APPROVAL FOR PARTICIPATION IN ARMED CONFLICT17.05.2005
Gerrard, Neil
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:16 pmThat this House believes that the decision to deploy British armed forces in conflict is of the most serious nature possible; notes that this is a decision to be taken by Ministers via the Royal Prerogative and that Parliament has no right to decide on the matter or even to be consulted; further notes that the Public Administration Select Committee has recommended in its report of 4th March 2004 that this situation should be ended and that Parliament should have the right to decide this matter in advance, or in cases of emergency retrospectively; further notes that in the last session of Parliament over 200 honourable Members supported this view; and therefore calls on the Government to introduce legislation to this effect.
We just had a third of an inch in 20 minutes at Saint Augustine Beach.
Comment by WaltTheMan
I REALLY hope you’re talking about rain…
:-D
Looks like we’re going to make it to 105 degrees today…
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:22 pm#21 – I find that hard to believe…
Comment by unbelievable
Believe, my dear. Some of us are late bloomers. ;)
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:26 pmAnyway to all you dumb ass republican warmongers
SOURCE Koreas Oh My News
Israeli missile strike killed seven members of a Palestinian family picnicking on a Gaza beach, which prompted Hamas to end its 16-month-old informal ceasefire with Israel. Hamas has repeatedly pointed to the Gaza beach incident as one of the central events that prompted its cross-border raid. Hamas also points to the capture of some of its leaders by Israel as the provocation for its raid.
Israel fired 7,000 to 9,000 heavy artillery shells into Gaza, killing and wounding scores of people.
TO ALL YOU REPUBLICAN TROLLS PUT UP OR SHUT THE F*CK UP
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:27 pm#62 – Zooey,
July 23rd, 2006 at 6:25 pmIt was rain and another tenth fell about an hour ago. Spouse is still in the closet as she is afraid of lightening for reasons I cannot perceive. The closet is a mere there feet from the main into the house and lightening arrester is twelve feet from that.
#60, Gregor,
For the votes of the average citizen in these countries to count, then the US has to subdue insurgents who wish to void their votes and impose their own rule – it really is that simple.
July 23rd, 2006 at 6:30 pm#65 – WaltTheMan,
I love lightening storms! I’d stand in the middle of one if I could. When I lived in Louisiana, I’d be sitting on the front porch enjoying the storm, and my neighbors would be hiding under their beds, missing the show. Go figure!
Maybe you could coax your spouse over to a different closet…?
July 23rd, 2006 at 6:48 pmFor the votes of the average citizen in these countries to count, then the US has to subdue insurgents (…)
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 6:30 pm
“The US has to subdue insurgents”. Does this mean “until the US wins in Afghanistan and Iraq”?
I thought you said those wars were not up to the US to win or lose:
It is not ours to win or lose, it is the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon, whose fledgling democracies are at risk.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
You better make up your mind on this issue. It is that simple.
But then, if you that, it would prevent you from shifting your arguments as you go.
July 23rd, 2006 at 6:54 pm#67 – Zooey,
July 23rd, 2006 at 7:10 pmThe closet is the only one in the house that will hold a chair plus its contents. It is about six feet square’ A “modesty” room off the master shower and bath. I have never had a fear of storms and as a teen laid in the grass and watched tornados pass overhead (in Texas). The pyrotechnics were impressive – beyond belief.
#69 – Walt
Keep enjoying those light shows! I’ve not seen many tornadoes in my life, but the one time there was a small one in my vicinity, my husband (at the time) dragged me into house telling me I was no end of stupid wanting to be outside (wonder why he’s my ex?). I figured since the house was up on piers anyway, we’d get taken away as easily whether inside or outside. But, apparently logic had nothing to with it, and I missed the whole thing. Someday, I hope to ride with one of those storm chasers — cool, cool, cool.
July 23rd, 2006 at 7:21 pmBad guys, good guys. The summary of US foreign policy history.
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:23 pm#70- Zooey,
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:27 pmOne of the misfortunes of life is that the older one gets, the more one desires to live on. While at 66, I realize that my days are numbered, when I was 16, I did things that could have reduced the numbers. I am still more awed by nature than frightened by it. As long as I do not take a swim at the Saint Augustine Alligator Farm, I should be safe (And I do not intend to.).
Alligator farm in St. Augustine is a cool place > been there several times! Now that the old bridge into the city is being destroyed, I will probably never visit SA again > I like to remember the city before it got taken over by Republicans > lol.
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:31 pmJay,
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:42 pmThe new mayor, Joe Boles, is as Dem as they come.
As long as I do not take a swim at the Saint Augustine Alligator Farm, I should be safe
Comment by WaltTheMan
I concur, no swimming in the alligator farm. ;)
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:54 pmIf Image Doesn’t Load, click – http://deadissue.com/archives/2006/07/22/an-army-of-one/
This is what they were getting at with that slogan. US Army soldiers charged with murder are having their grand jury hearings in Tikrit. Lord knows there are plenty of defense attourneys willing to travel to Iraq…what the hell is going on here? The Abu Gharib crew was tried stateside, and maybe that’s the long and short of it. We need to gain political traction in Iraq, so from now on we’ll be offering these accused soldiers as sacrifices to Allah, and the people will view an American corpse killed by American justice…that will be the turning point. Start killing our own, and our sincerity will become obvious to every Iraqi, and the insurgency will give up all at once. Shit – - – all we had to do was REALLY embrace the ‘Army of One’ concept.
Source
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:58 pmAnd OBTW, the old bridge was in really bad shape. Iron piers were just a mist of their original construction. I have often had to wait for hours while the drawbridge was hammered in place with sledges by the bridgemaster, The current plan is to restore the structure, but widen it and use concrete piles. The original lamp posts and lion figures are in or being placed in storage and will be returned to the site.
July 23rd, 2006 at 11:59 pmThe image really says it all – and in terms of our foreign policy from now on, each of us should appreciate how little these hogs care about any of our soldiers and marines
July 24th, 2006 at 12:00 amAnd BTW, one of the most entertaining moments in my life was when in Tampa an Indian (Asian) decided to to take a dip in the pond outside the complex. Turned out that there was a resident Alligator.
July 24th, 2006 at 12:13 amI swear, he actually walked on water to escape an untimely doom.
#68, Gregor,
Whether or not the US can beat the insurgents will determine whether the Afghanis and Iraqis win or lose. English must be your second language, nuances are lost on you.
July 24th, 2006 at 12:29 amAll posters..Go to opednews.com and read the Iran war is still on, if you havent read it already…Blessings, now more than ever…..Peace, demand it…
July 24th, 2006 at 12:57 amEnglish must be your second language, nuances are lost on you.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 24, 2006 @ 12:29 am
Let’s recap:
Further, the Insurgents (…) could conceivably win. (…) [unbelievable] was pointing out that America can lose.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — July 23, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
Bruce is clearly talking about a political and/or military defeat.
Deny it like Vietnam… That’s what my father did. He refused to accept that we lost a war. He said it was ‘tied’…
Comment by unbelievable — July 23, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
Unbelievable is clearly talking about a military defeat. She specifically says “we lost a war”.
Up to this point, the subject was clear: A military conflict, and a military defeat. No nuances, and it is very straightforward. Your response to unbelievable was:
It is not ours to win or lose, it is the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon, whose fledgling democracies are at risk. (…)
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 23, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
If you were not talking about a military defeat, you gave no hint. Now you claim you were talking about something else altogether. How long did it take you to come up with that sorry excuse?
If true, it means you failed to understand the simple, straightforward exchange -with no nuances- between Unbelievable and Bruce Gorton.
I don’t know what your first language is, but I am sure it has nothing to do with your failure to comprehend simple English sentences.
Or maybe you should stop blogging while drinking?
July 24th, 2006 at 1:35 amJason:
Seems to me that the insurgents, if they are Iraqis or Afghanis, should also have a say. Those who actually kill fellow Iraqis or Afghanis should be tried and jailed. But our presence is making insurgency more likely. They have an issue: their countries have been invaded by a foreigner who does not speak their languages and who, for the most part, does not share their religion.
Answer me this, you neocons: if, say, China invaded the U.S., what would your reaction be? Wouldn’t you be one of the insurgents?
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January 23rd, 2007 at 6:12 am