Rice abandons talks, shuttles back to the United States.
By on Jul 30th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Rice abandons talks, shuttles back to the United States.
“Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was forced to cancel a trip to Beirut Sunday after an Israeli airstrike killed more than 50 people, mostly women and children, in the southern Lebanese town of Qana in the bloodiest attack since the hostilities began between Israel and Lebanon’s Hezbollah militia. But she did not call for an immediate ceasefire. Rice will abandon her Middle East negotiations at least temporarily to return to Washington Monday.”
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She didn’t cancel it. Lebanon told her to f— off. It’s like saying “I quit” after you are fired.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:40 amCondi Rice should resign as Secretary of State, and I suggest she seek asylum in another nation to avoid being prosecuted for war crimes! Shame on you Condi and you are a disgrace!
July 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amIn other news:
Wonder if SG Annan is going to issue an apology for his premature condemnation. Doubtful.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:44 amWow, see Condi “cut and run” from the Middle East. She must be going back to DC to get her robotic battery pack recharged.
-GSD
July 30th, 2006 at 11:45 amthis war can be over in a few seconds, all the Saudis would need to do is to threaten to cut off the oil, even for a few days, and bingo, war finished.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:46 amThe Lebanese were right to give her her marching orders, when you are being raped you don’t have to give fellatio as well.
She clearly has an agenda which has nothing to do with saving Lebanese lives.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amChase, the Israelis knew the coordinates where the UN. Should a cop shoot a gunman if he has to shoot through the hostage? Nope. The Israeli’s don’t care anymore. They enjoy this shit now. They have fought so hard agains the enemy that they have become just as arrogrant, bullying and disregarding of life as any Muslim terrorist.
History is full of stories where the oppressed become the oppressor.
-GSD
July 30th, 2006 at 11:51 amI’d prefer a SecState with actual diplomatic skills, please.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:54 amBrian > the Lebanese government would be wise to tell our US ambassador to leave and our embassy closed there > if we still have an ambassador and embassy in Lebanon? I know our old embassy got blown up years ago!
July 30th, 2006 at 11:55 amWonder if SG Annan is going to issue an apology for his premature condemnation. Doubtful.
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 11:44 am
What was premature about it? This simply reinforces the they targeted the area on purpose!!! They could have sent in ground forces or taken any number of alternate actions that protected UN forces, instead they lobbed artillery shells onto a UN observation post for several hours.
Apologies are not required Chase, war crimes trials are.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:55 am#7 – The real war crime is hiding among civilian populations, and using international peacekeeping installations as a shield.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:57 am#3 Chase: Even in that case, it further demonstrates that the Israelis *knew* it was a UN site and bombed it anyway. There is no justification for the intentional murder of peacekeepers; none.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:57 amOh, she’s just going home to service Georgie… You know he can’t stand to be apart from her for very long.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:57 amthe story is from friday, but check out the picture
http://www.wral.com/apworldnews/9590217/detail.html
“confers”?
July 30th, 2006 at 11:57 amListening to the coverage and usual spins on the Sunday Morning is disheartening.
I am sorrily afraid that if there is not strong statements of solidarity by the US for the Lebanon people, the expabsion of this conflict will escalate out of control. As pointed out by such “progressives” as Buchanan, Will, Armitage, Wilkerson has pointed out – the lack of diplomacy engages by the Bush administration has led to weak moderate powers in the ME, and only emboldened the extremists and those who are viewed to have some ability to protect.
Unfortunately, it is too late and the US no longer has people of the proper mindset to do negotiation. Sec. Rice is the epitome of educated people who have no sense of how to discuss and reason without dictating or lecturing. She cannot discuss differences and/or commonalities of purpose without dictating to all the players how the US wants them to behave.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amThere is no justification for hiding there, or permitting Hezbollah to take up position in your vicinity. When Hezbollah moved in, the UN should have moved out. Period.
The UN, apparently knowing Hezbollah was using them as a shield, permitted them to do so.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amI remember reading a quote that I can’t locate right now. I think it was from one of Bob Woodward’s books like “Bush at War”. The context of the quote is a conversation that took place between Colin Powell and Bush about the Israeli – Palestinian conflict and why Bush hadn’t done anything about it for two years. Bush repiled that perhaps there wasn’t enough killing done yet.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:59 amHe’s approaching this crisis the same way.
#11 – There must be limits, even in war. If a lone sniper is hiding in a children’s hospital (hypothetically), you cannot legitimately destroy that building to kill him, at least not in my concept of civilization.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:59 amChase > why should the UN have to move their post? Besides they built the damn bunker, that Israel blew up! There is NO justification for deliberately targeting that UN post by Israel > PERIOD.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:02 pmWOW…Sorry for the grammar. Emoting rather than editing.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pm#19 – So you admit Hezbollah took up position near the UN to use them as a shield?
July 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pmRice didn’t *cancel* her trip, she was “uninvited”.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pm#7 – The real war crime is hiding among civilian populations, and using international peacekeeping installations as a shield.
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 11:57 am
I’m totally with you there. No excuse for that where it occurs, but it cannot be cynically used as a license for heavily armed high tech militaries to kill civilians with impunity. That is not acceptable.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:07 pmPack of Lies: Lebanon tells Rice to stay away
Lebanon has cancelled a visit by Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, following an Israeli air raid in southern Lebanon which killed at least 50 people.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:07 pmPost 21 Chase > I have NO idea about Hezbollah being around or near that UN post?! Makes NO difference > UN built the bunker and Israel bombed them!
July 30th, 2006 at 12:09 pm#25 – So I’m guessing you didn’t read the link. Ha.
God forbid anything get in the way of your predispositions.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:11 pmChase > I repeat > there is NO justification for Israel to bomb the UN bunker post! They are NOT associated with the Hezbollah fighters! Even the Geneva Conventions state plainly that NO military has a right to kill civilians who are being used as shields! The UN post was an impartial/neutral observation post > they had NO offensive weapons! They had no military means to tell Hezbollah to go to hell!
July 30th, 2006 at 12:17 pmTony & Cherie’s American Dream
his current income amounts to around £277,000. Once he leaves the Commons – and no one expects him to stand as an MP at the next election – he is entitled to an office allowance of up to £87,000 plus a decent pension.
But the Blairs’ famously poor choice of property investments has saddled the family with an annual mortgage bill of around £200,000. The new house in Connaught Square is alone mortgaged to the tune of £3.5m.
When one adds such incidentals as the £18,000-a-year cost of childcare and helping the Blairs’ older children through university, the urgency for cash becomes abundantly obvious.
LINK HERE GOOD YOU CAN HAVE HIM BRITAIN HATES THE MAN WORSE PM EVER
July 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pm#19 – So you admit Hezbollah took up position near the UN to use them as a shield?
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 12:03 pm
Absolutely, and it looks increasingly like Israel either took the offered bait, or decided the couldn’t care less about peacekeepers. Neither side come out of this looking terribly good, but Israel look far, far worse.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pmYes, she was told that she is useless.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:25 pmSomething we have realized in the US for quite some time now. She is in way over head. Her counterpart in the UN is the worst possible person to represent us there.
Between Rice and Bolton – not to mention the moron in the White House – are galvanizing the image of the ugly American.
“We are also pushing for an urgent end” to hostilities, Rice said. “But the views of the parties on how to achieve that are different.”
What a clueless ninny. Resign now, Condoleezza Rice.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:28 pmCondoleezza was set up to fail.
What Arab wants a woman to have a great success?
This way, Israel can extend the time that they seek out Hezbollah.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:46 pmChase and other believers of deadly force is always justified if we say it is. . . . The USA is no longer a factor in motivating nations to settle arguments through peaceful talks. Bushco (neocons) believe in using deadly force to show their resolve to kill and believe other nations will fear them and then do their bidding. (For example – become democratic) Actually, when you misuse force, others no long respect or value your judgement. Thus the USA is now viewed as an insignificant player on the world stage. Bushco has nothing to offer any country seeking peace since bush/cheney have shown their complete inability to be honest. For all your hate of Clinton, he did command international respect and the USA was better off for it.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:52 pmFor all your hate of Clinton, he did command international respect and the USA was better off for it.
Comment by Southwest Bob — July 30, 2006 @ 12:52 pm
Absolutely true, his efforts where indispensible in sweeping away the last few excuses for violence in the North of Ireland. Ironically, I didn’t even realise it was happening at the time. GWB has certainly introduced me to politics in general, and the effect the US has in the wider world in specific.
Also somewhere along the way I’ve abandoned my Christian faith in disgust, any philosophy that allows something as cancerous and malignant as the US republicans to hijack it, is worthless.
Thanks George.
July 30th, 2006 at 12:58 pmThis would be the “scratch until it bleeds” foreign policy.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:03 pmCondi Rice –
If we call for a cease fire now, then all those innocent civilians will have died for nothing. We must support the innocent civilians by letting them continue to die.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:23 pmYes – there were many issues on which I disagreed with Clinton – but the facts are in plain sight. For all his personal foibles, as president of the US, we were all better off; people around the world had more respect for him than his political enemies here, who hounded him mercilessly on irrelevant matters, when they should have been supporting him on the important issues.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:26 pmInstead we have the worst president in our history at the worst possible time, and his incompetent staff of sycophants. Belligerency, stubbornness, bellicosity are Bush’s forms of diplomacy. They have brought us to today.
we have the worst president in our history at the worst possible time
Comment by Marie — July 30, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
could be a “which came first?” scenario…
July 30th, 2006 at 1:36 pmhard to not think that he MADE it the worst time…
incompetents/corrupt…. Takes a trip 1000’s of miles away to wine/dine, have a
glrious night out then returns home.
Bull, as she states we are deeply saddened & doing everything in our power
to establish a ceasefire”.
However at the same time the united states is sending 1000’s of more troops
and billions of dollars of additional weapons.
While the PAC money rolled in to congress and corrupt bush/cheney continue the
policy of this ware
HOW MUCH MORE CORRUPT CAN THINGS BE THAN THIS?
Every single one of these totally corrupt public servants should be FIRED
immeidately and WE THE PEOPLE should immeidately establish a
compentent government TO SERVE US instead of the totally corrupted
Government officials raking in billions of dollars of political contributions
IT IS SO CORRUPT THE REAL TRUTH doesn’t even matter anymore
July 30th, 2006 at 1:42 pmGo read this:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/30/13132/0506
I feel this way, and many of you may too.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:50 pmGood posts all….Marie, may I add to your last sentance please…And with bush’s wars for thousands there is no tomorrow.
Coal train, I think the bush ideas are bomb untill it’s all gone…
rice is a dead eyed whore for bush. Clearly bush and company are going to suck all our money to continue their equiping Israel and our killing in Iraq. Giving Israel a no end deal to continue their campaign is further distroying our standing in the world. Say what ever they want about Iran and Syria backing Lebanon and Hezbalah does nothing to stop the madness. The major fact is…..Our money and bombs helped to kill all these 700 innocent people in their country…They will now be steadfast to keep Hezbolah there, why shoulden’t they, Hezbolah has been a benafactor and protector of sorts. Israel and the USA have become the invaders and terrorests….Look at the losses on both sides……Sorry, I’m rooting for the peace keepers who ever they are and right now we ain’t it……….Slam all our representatives with emails….When will we all unite to stop this terrible madness…..Get this bunch of basterds out of our administration…Start our own trickle down…..First bush then cheney and on down the line……Blessings, the world needs them…Peace, work for it….
July 30th, 2006 at 1:53 pmGood point, katy
July 30th, 2006 at 1:55 pmSharon, you had Condi Rice nailed from day one with your comment about her “dead eyes.” Two words of description said a lot.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:58 pmGood morning, Sharon,
We’re freezing in Idaho this morning, did you send us this blessing? :)
You are right about Condi being dead eyed. I think Ann Coulter has more life in her eyes, and that’s a scary thought.
This is a terrifying phrase: I’m rooting for the peace keepers who ever they are and right now we ain’t it…
You hit the nail on the head, as usual.
Peace.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:59 pmSharon,
Did you say last night that you still have your flag upside down? And only about 6 people have noticed? I just got a flag sticker and put it on my passenger window, upside down. I didn’t put it on the bumper because I work at the courthouse now…No one has said anything yet.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:03 pmI feel this way, and many of you may too.
Comment by Zooey — July 30, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
yep –
July 30th, 2006 at 2:05 pmI feel like George W. Bush and his policies are gravel and glass in my brain. Forever.
The WaPo story goes on to say:
I thought the UN Security COuncil was “quaint” Why would we be going to them now.
Just go ahead and out right hand Isreal a bomb in front of the world. Stop pretending like they are mini-US. It is a load of crap that the world doesn’t believe. 6.6 billion people around the world would have to be wrong for Bush and his small band of groupies to be right.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:06 pmThe UN, apparently knowing Hezbollah was using them as a shield, permitted them to do so.
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 11:58 am
I see. Israel pulled the trigger, but the people at the receiving end are to blame.
Everyone is always at fault, and Israel is always the victim even when civlians on the other side are dropping like flies.
That is a morally bankrupt stance to take.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:09 pmHow does the “world diplomatic community” keep a straight face when they see the US in the form of Rice and Bolton come to the “peace” discussions when everything they represent is death and war?
July 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pmI feel like George W. Bush and his policies are gravel and glass in my brain. Forever.
Comment by katy
That’s the sentence that hit me between the eyes, too, katy.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:14 pmBack at ya ladies, ….Zooey, thanks for the link, great post we all know the feeling of the writer. All the pebbles under the skin have become bolders of late. We need a big backhoe to rid us of this cancer in our administration. I don’t do weather Zooey, But since I am a witch have been accused of such things.LOL. We have rain here this morning, so guess it will be heading your way…Blessings all, have a nice day, unless you had other plans..I’m going out for a drive about the time all the church goers get out of their sunday indoctranation speeches..Want them all to see my new bumper sticker…”Doing my part to piss off the relegious right”. The local grocery store workers and I just love looking at all the great dressers and their rude behavior right after their bible thumping….My thrill for the week, watching them walk slowly by my truck and reading all my stuff then scurring along in a rush before someone sees them……Later. I am so naughty and love it….
July 30th, 2006 at 2:20 pmSharon,
You’re the greatest. Have fun baiting the “good people.” :)
July 30th, 2006 at 2:31 pmZooey, Yep! only 6 have noticed and 5 were people who live here year around…..Yesterday I walked up to some customers and one guy was telling another,” just go up to the motor home with the big flag” no mention it is upside down…..Lost count but it has to be close to 200 that haven’t even noticed the flag at all and it is hung from my rafters and covers my front windows….The bottom of it is 6 feet off the ground…..Sad but true. Know what you mean about where you work and what you put out there for people to see…I have to park a long walk away from the food bank when I volentere cause they are afilliated with the Luthren church and I don’t want to offend them…..Oh well!……Peace to the world….Good weather to Zooey and us all…Let’s see if it works..
July 30th, 2006 at 2:33 pmThis pathetic woman, rushing about with meaningless proposals, while her boss urges on Olmert and the IDF to “finish the job”, “we’re remaking the Middle East”, etc. Olmert tells Bush that he needs only “10-14 days to complete the mission”, or whatever…or, maybe another 2 months, or…whatever it takes. Condi has no credibility, photo ops are for domestic consumption only, the rest of the world dismisses her and her mindless activities as inconsequential posturing. US aircraft flying into Tel Aviv from Britain bringing yet another load of airborne death and destruction materiel – and Condi blathering about “restraint”…more rubbish from the Ribbentrop school of foreign relations.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:34 pmRice “shuttles back” to the U.S.? More like “scurries back”, like a mouse.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pm87% of all americans believe bush should be impeached IMMEDIATELY
yet something/someone grants him the privledge to declare war
and take responsibility related to his war.
Remember though, this is OUR money and corrupt bush is a public
servant to us. :) Condi flying 1000’s of miles to play pianto :(
and have a glorious night out only to return back where she came
from just a few days later
1000’s of more troops/billions of dollars more weapons to isreal.
US population DEMANDS we pull out of middle east A LONG TIME
AGO
COMPLETE CORRUPTION, enough to make you & I PUKE :(
July 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pmAll the pebbles under the skin have become bolders of late.
I am so naughty and love it….
Comment by Sharon Cox — July 30, 2006 @ 2:20 pm
sharon you are a hoot! a lovely, naughty hoot!
my daughter is embarrassed about my car…
i love to show it off, just as you do your truck!
it’s the least i can do!
July 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pmthe flag at all and it is hung from my rafters and covers my front windows….The bottom of it is 6 feet off the ground
Comment by Sharon Cox — July 30, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
then, it’s obvious they are seeing it… it’s the embarrassment and refusal to admit mistakes that prevent anyone from commenting on it…
July 30th, 2006 at 2:38 pmgood for you, sharon! they are seeing it!
Thank you Katy for your support and doing your part as well…..One last thing about the flag, of the 6 only 1 came over quickly, the day I hung it out and wanted to know if I was alright and could he do anything to help…..An old vetran that lives here….Of all the things people can take away from you the one they can’t steal is knoledge…..Blessings..
July 30th, 2006 at 2:50 pmLebanon cancelled the talks, not Rice. The title is misleading.
July 30th, 2006 at 3:48 pmMy three children have been killed!” One man removed the blanket covering his daughter’s dead body and asked: “Is this a Hizbullah fighter? Are these missiles?” Many men yelled in the streets: “It’s America, it’s Israel.”
the bush regime policy of winning hearts and minds is really “kill em all, kill em all”. bush and the killer olmert the world’s most succesful recruiters of jihadists
July 30th, 2006 at 3:51 pmWhen will Israel stop killing old men, women, children and babies? They like to think of themselves as victims, but in reality they are nothing but bloodthirsty bullies. They call the latest killing of 60 or more a mistake. Mistake, my ass. Just like the mistake of targeting of four U.N. workers. They’re successfully turning the world against them.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:10 pmDoes anyone except the White House care in the least that Condi is over there? I mean, she’s about as useful for creating unity as Bolton. I mean Bush. I mean Cheney. I mean Rumsfeld. I mean Rove. I mean, uh, maybe some of the housekeepers at the White House would probably be better at creating unity and bringing about a ceasefire for all the good Bush has done while in office.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:26 pm63. Has anyone here spoken to an Isreali before , they are very arrogant in speech as they have no words for thank you , Thats my opinion after meeting hundreds in Goa In india they certainely seem unpolite
Even the Indians call them the wilderbeasts as when the season starts in Goa they arrive in herds
at the same time white people are all called hippies
and the funniest are Indians from outside Goa arriving in coach loads to look at the european Babes in their bikinis the Local Goans call them ” Binta Kas” as when the Indian Tourists arrive by bus they Leave a trail of monkey nut shells allong the beach
July 30th, 2006 at 4:31 pm” hence they get called ” Binta Kas” The peanut People ha ha
#33 – Thus the USA is now viewed as an insignificant player on the world stage.
Ahahahahah hahaha. Ahahahah hahahah.
That’s so rich.
#27 & 29 – By admitting Hezbollah took up position in such a way to use either civilians or international peacekeepers as a shield, you admit they have committed a war crime commensurate with the killing of civilians. International law recognizes that military forces who use civilians as cover are directly responsible for any deaths those civilians incur. Period.
The UN should have a.) sought to move Hezbollah from their proximity or b.) moved themselves, knowing they were there. Israel fired in the area for 6 days – it was a war zone. Why stay hunkered down? Why stay in the proximity of Hezbollah knowing the IDF is trying to take them out? Makes no sense.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:34 pmWhen will Israel stop killing old men, women, children and babies?
They will stop killing when there are laws that impinge directly on those giving the orders and making the decisions. When they cannot move for fear of arrest. When evil men can no longer hide behind the fiction of the nation state and hold entire peoples as their hostages.
There needs to be international processes that will allow for arrest warrants to be issued for the likes of Olmert and his generals. Punishing entire regions and nation states for the actions of individuals is a bankrupt and failed policy.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:37 pmKofi Annan has condemned an Israeli air strike that killed more than 60 Lebanese and reiterated his previous calls for an immediate ceasefire.
The UN secretary-general spoke on Sunday at an emergency meeting of the Security Council that he convened after the Israeli air strike in Qana.
“I am deeply dismayed that my earlier calls for an immediate cessation of hostilities were not heeded,” Annan said.
“I repeat this call once again from this chamber and I appeal to the council to do likewise.
“Action is needed now before many more children, women and men become casualties of a conflict over which they have no control.”
The Security Council has so far been unable to take a stand on the fighting partly because the United States, unlike other members of the council, has refused to back Annan’s calls for an immediate ceasefire.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:44 pmThe UN should have a.) sought to move Hezbollah from their proximity or b.) moved themselves, knowing they were there. Israel fired in the area for 6 days – it was a war zone. Why stay hunkered down? Why stay in the proximity of Hezbollah knowing the IDF is trying to take them out? Makes no sense.
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
While I agree that Hizbollah are culpable, dead unarmed UN peacekeepers are not the bad guys here, which you appear to be implying. They where shelled for hours, they contacted the IDF multiple times and asked them to stop shelling, and the did not.
As you note it was a war zone. For a non combatant staying hunkered down, while in direct contact with the IDF and in an identified UN position, seems by orders of magnitude, the most sensible thing to do.
It is clear that the Israels killed them deliberatly, or at the very least simply didn’t care one way or the other.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:46 pmTrolls like chase contrinue to blame the victim.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:50 pmIf a sniper is holed up in a kindergarten, you don’t blow up the kindergarten!
You negotiate!!
Chickenshit Republican diplomacy
July 30th, 2006 at 4:57 pm“Another UN position of the Ghanaian battalion in the area of Marwahin in the western sector was also directly hit by one mortar from the Hezbollah side last night. The round did not explode, and there were no casualties or material damage. Another 5 incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side were reported yesterday. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Alma ash Shab, Tebnin, Brashit, and At Tiri. All UNIFIL positions remain occupied and maintained by the troops”
The first casualty of war is truth after all
Above LINK the Actual UN Document
July 30th, 2006 at 4:58 pmCondi Rice is a small part of a huge problem that starts with a lack of wisdom which is centered in Geroge Bush, Jr.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:00 pm#68 – I think it appears more likely the shelling was directed at the Hezbollah militants who were “hunkered down” nearby, believing they would be immune from attack there. It also is now evident that, for a number of days, the UN force knew that Hezbollah was using them as cover.
I have no idea, nor do you, what the conversation between the IDF and UN force was. I would assume the IDF warned them, probably repeatedly, that Hezbollah had taken up position around them and that they would begin shelling to dislodge them. I would also assume the IDF also recommended they abandon their post, if only temporarily, so they could attack the Hezbollah militants.
At the end of the day, the IDF should have held off and not shelled the UN peacekeepers. The UN forces should not have been providing cover for militants either.
The UN is an impotent organization. The UN does not have the capability of imposing or enforcing a ceasefire where the combatants do not want it. Once Hezbollah decides, for the sake of the Lebanese, they will negotiate and once Israel decides, for the sake of Haifa to negotiate.
The US only has so much influence on Israel. And it’s probably very similar in both mode and magnitude to the influence Damascus and Tehran have upon the Hezbollah troops fighting.
There’s a lot of wind-baggery around here about the US not stepping in and helping negotiate a ceasefire. Why no such claims for Iranian intervention?
July 30th, 2006 at 5:00 pm73.The US only has so much influence on Israel.
America Has an Aggreement with Isreal that weapons supplied by the US can only be used to defend itself and not to be used to attack countries
Bush can stop this war anytime he wants by threatening Isreal no more weapons
therefore Since an Isreali Commando unit actually entered Lebanon , when they got ambushed by Hezbollah , 3 killed and two taken hostage , and one tank blown up
we have been fed a pack of lies on who started what
one other thing to remember is Isreal in the last 6 months have killed with helicopter gunships 144 Palestinians , Palestinians have killed NO isrealis in 6 months in fact have had a ceasefire for 18 months, Isreal once again finally got Palestinians to break the ceasefire by killing Palestinians on their beach, Then hamas fired 10 rockets killing noone in Isreal
We are being fed bullshit in the news ,,,,,,, stay open minded and use your brains as to who really started this war
July 30th, 2006 at 5:09 pmAt the end of the day, the IDF should have held off and not shelled the UN peacekeepers.
Agreed.
The UN forces should not have been providing cover for militants either.
This characterisation is completely incorrect, they were not providing “cover” for Hizbollah, they were neutral unarmed observers, with no remit to take a particular “side”, thats what neutral means. You also don’t shell neutrals.
The UN is an impotent organization. The UN does not have the capability of imposing or enforcing a ceasefire where the combatants do not want it.
Of course it is. The UN is simply the sum of its parts. Plus 5 nations can veto any formulation, even if every other country on the planet is in favour. The UN system is so ludicrously hamstrung and undemocratic because thats the way the nation states, particularly the large ones like it.
Imagine how little could be acheived in the US if every decision had to be ratified by a council of unelected state representatives, 5 of whom could individually veto any decision, with no comeback whatever? Imagine if those 5 states were New York, California, Utah, Ohio and Florida? Yeah, paralysis, which is exactly what you have globally.
The principle of global governance is not the problem the nation states that comprise the UN are the problem, most particularly the 5 veto wielding permanent members of the security council.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#74 – Who the hell do you think supplies Hezbollah with arms and rockets? Santa Claus?
The US in definitely not the only tangential party with culpability.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:12 pmThere’s a lot of wind-baggery around here about the US not stepping in and helping negotiate a ceasefire. Why no such claims for Iranian intervention?
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 5:00 pm
Because Iran is a fascist theocracy, with no respect for human life, with a lunatic at the helm. Or so you people keep telling us:-)
July 30th, 2006 at 5:15 pm#74 – Who the hell do you think supplies Hezbollah with arms and rockets? Santa Claus?
The US in definitely not the only tangential party with culpability.
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 5:12 pm
Chase, the US and Israel must take responsibility for their own actions, not the actions of Iran or Syria. Israel have killed 700 civilians, not Hizbollah or Iran or Syria. Start down that route, and we might just as well blame Jimmy Carter, or the British or the Romans or Emperor Darius.
People are responsible for what they do. Thats how law works, and it’s the only way it can work.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:19 pmThis characterisation is completely incorrect, they were not providing “cover†for Hizbollah, they were neutral unarmed observers, with no remit to take a particular “sideâ€, thats what neutral means. You also don’t shell neutrals.
I think the characterization is spot-on. While it was not their intention to provide cover for Hezbollah, the fact is they were providing cover.
I think the UN should not attempt to engage itself on battlefields, with Blue Helmets, or with security forces or anything. UN authority is at its peak (albeit a low peak) when it negotiates and seeks cooperation and conciliation at a distance. By actually taking to the military theater, they do nothing but risk their own lives.
I’ve said it before: I’m an realist when it comes to international affairs. This whole situation only further proves how accurate I am.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:19 pm76 You are the norrow minded twat in this site
Who the hell do you think supplies Hezbollah with arms and rockets? Santa Claus?
I dont really care supplies Hezbollah with arms , surely they are allowed arms under the pretext of defending themselfs from agressors as does the USA supply isreal arms under the same prexext as defence, one thing to note is Isreal started this war
Did you complain when America supplied weapons to Bin laden to shoot russians
July 30th, 2006 at 5:19 pmwhats good for the goose is good for the ganda
#78 – Where is the condemnation of Iran or Syria around here? The asymmetry of the indignation is telling.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:20 pmexcept Chase you are so narrow minded you cannot see the woods for the trees
July 30th, 2006 at 5:21 pmRice didnt cancel her talks over there, there were no talks scheduled, only two piano recitals.
These were cancelled because of the noise from the amurkan missiles, which tended to drown out her awful musical renditions.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:22 pm#80 – “Narrow minded twat” huh? At least you believe in elevating the rhetoric of the discourse.
It’s obvious you don’t care who supplies Hezbollah because admitting Iran is supplying them with the rockets to shell the Israeli civilian population in Haifa and Nazareth would diminish your position that “Israel and the US are evil”.
And I do not complain about the US supplying the mujaheddin to combat the Communist threat of the USSR. There are situations where you must side with the lesser of two evils.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:26 pmTobey – where are you from? You are obviously not from the United States.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:27 pm#77 Because Iran is a fascist theocracy, with no respect for human life, with a lunatic at the helm. Or so you people keep telling us:-)
substitute the word “Iran” with “america” and you are more aligned with the truth.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:29 pm84#
a world vote where you must side with the lesser of two evils – America or Russia
I would bet 90% Russia
July 30th, 2006 at 5:33 pmI think The Russians are our saviours at the moment if it were not for their nuclear deterent , America would have nuked the world by Now
Imagine Having a Commander In Grief called Bush
July 30th, 2006 at 5:38 pmI can think of another name of a womens genital area and It begins with C**T
Tobey – again, where are you from?
July 30th, 2006 at 5:41 pm3rd rock from the sun
July 30th, 2006 at 5:41 pmI’ll take it your not from the United States. At least tell me I’m right about that.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:42 pm#90 – That’s great, Tobey. :)
July 30th, 2006 at 5:43 pm2578 Marines Dead because of Chase’s Lateral thinking
July 30th, 2006 at 5:44 pmHaha. I love it.
Tobey, for a non-American you certainly have a keen interest in the politics of the United States.
What can be made of the news that Israel has agreed to a 48-hour suspension of air strikes?
I wonder if Hezbollah will likewise take 48 hours off of raining Katyusha rockets into Israel?
July 30th, 2006 at 5:46 pm95 # where did you get that news, seeing as isreal bombed the roads out of south lebanon , how do you expect people to leave ??????
It will be a ceasefire to let red cross dig up the murdered civillians only and to take food to the starving
But Mostly:- Annan said that the Israeli army had asked UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon to evacuate two more villages before sunset, but that they were unable to do so
The UN mission in Lebanon “did receive a request from the Israeli defence forces that [they wanted] the population of two villages, Ramyah and Ayta ash-Shab … to be evacuated before sunset today”, Annan told the emergency session.
“Of course UNIFIL has refused to evacuate the villages, indicating that they don’t have the capacity,” he said.
“This is something I thought you should know to let you understand the dynamics in the region and in the south.”
THE REAL REASON
July 30th, 2006 at 5:52 pm94# I take it the missiles from the US has not arrived yet
July 30th, 2006 at 6:00 pmIsrael should take out all the Iranian Nuclear facilities
and then agree to a cease fire.
Whenever anyone acts up again, they should strike back again.
When you fire rockets from a building full of women and children,
July 30th, 2006 at 6:01 pmyou must accept at least half the responsibility, for their deaths.
“Because Iran is a fascist theocracy, with no respect for human life, with a lunatic at the helm…”
and this differs from the US exactly how?
July 30th, 2006 at 6:02 pm.
Yes the Israelis are waiting for some more American bombs to arrive, so 48 hours gives them time to regroup before attacking Lebanon some more!
July 30th, 2006 at 6:05 pmRest assured Hezbollah will continue firing rockets into Israel.
July 30th, 2006 at 6:06 pmIt would also be safer to walk the streets of Iran than anywhere in America,
Also if you look at photos of Iran’s President Ahmadinejad in his eyes you can tell he looks confident, intelligent and relatively honest seems to speak the truth
compared to Bush , he looks dodgy in the eyes and everything he says is a lie
I also think the world sees this
July 30th, 2006 at 6:10 pm#98 1. Christian evangelicals exerting dangerous pressure on bush amd foreign policy in the ME
2. America supplies deadly munitions to a proxy state
3. bush is not exactly an icon for mental health week
So, the U.S. is not unlike Iran….an odd irony dont you think?
July 30th, 2006 at 6:11 pmCondi was on her way to being 0-2 in Mideast peace talks, perhaps something that the Bush administration had done by design. But now even the U.S. is on the cease-fire train, after the horrific bomibng in Qana by the Israelis. But will this last? I’m betting no. They’ll blame everything on Iran and give Israel the go-ahead for more bomibng.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
July 30th, 2006 at 6:14 pmThe very latest on the war crime in Qana. Rice says it’s “time for a ceas-fire”.
Only on SSA
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
100# show Hezbollah some respect
July 30th, 2006 at 6:14 pmThe arab people are brainwashed from birth. The arab world has plenty of room for all arabs but they manipulate the poor, to try and destroy Israel. Israel would not have to fight, if they were simply safe.
July 30th, 2006 at 6:19 pmRa and Chase, you are both so full of shit your eyes must be brown…….When does killing innocent people become the norm.? All of bull shit bush’s term…..Neither of you know squat..Read, listen become informed instead of following blindly all the reich winged crap you keep passing on here…Stop supporting more killing and genecide for the sake of oil, political power and the rapture…….Israel and the USA are now the terrorests, our tax dollars are fueling all these wars…..Get educated, dummies…..Stop this madness before any more of our troops die in Iraq or people die in Lebanon with bombs we gave to Israel…..Grow the hell up…….Impeach this entire administration now……Demand peace, stop funding war’s…..
July 30th, 2006 at 6:22 pmIt seems you cannot defend the issue, so you try to muddy the issue, with other problems.
Leave Israel alone and they’ll leave their neighbors alone. Period.
The arab world is rich. They keep people poor, to do their dirty work.
If you fire rockets from a building full of women and children,
July 30th, 2006 at 6:25 pmyou must accept at least half the responsiblity for their deaths.
Ra, yah I’m for that, leave Israel alone with no bombs or money from us to support their waramonging ever again..Take out all our support and they would stop their agression on the rest of the countries around them. Enough of your blaming the murdered innocent victoms. Give us a break…..Such stupid shit you trolls spout….I’m outta here. Going to communicate with some intelegent people that don’t drink bull shit bush kool aid…..
July 30th, 2006 at 6:36 pm6 months before this Isreali shit
Isreal killed 144 palestinians including 45 children
Palestine killed 0 Isrealis
Palestine had a successful 18 month ceasefire until the beach killings by isreal
Palestine Fired 12 rockets into isreal killing nobody
nothing can justify Isreals actions
July 30th, 2006 at 6:36 pmmost European countries have a gold based monetary system
America seems to have a weapons for sale monetary system
Even your ecconomy is based on military funds slipping down to the poor
No wonder America acts selfishly alone in the world
Get a real job from RealJobs.com
What Chase is trying to do is to turn this Blog-line into a cheerleading contest. It’s too easy, rather than discuss solutions.
Whom you are for or are against is not the solution to ANY world problem. Never has been.
The bare facts of World opinion show the winners and losers so far in the crisis.
Israel is losing world support because of overblowing the response. Israel cannot win this by military means alone. They have gone down in WORLD opinion because they attack infrastucture unrelated to Hezbollah, but related to civilian populations at large. There will not be less terrorists, but more because of the manner that they are repsonding. Good God, it is bringing out anti-Jew behavior in the US (i.e. Seattle)!!
Hezbollah is winning because, even though they are terrorist, and are most likely involved in civilian shielding, IT IS WORKING in World opinion. Pictures of dead children work. ALso, they are veiwed by many in Lebanon as the only defense force that they have against an over-weaponed “neighbor”.
The US is losing world credibility, because the solutions proposed by the current administration “Lasting ceasefire”, could better be stated “UNATTAINABLE ceasefire“. There are no credible solutions being proposed that address a benefit to both sides of the conflict or that any international force would want to get in the middle of. Instead, the US administration pretends to dictate to stakeholders as if they are mis-behaving children. There is no meaningful discussion. Israel knows it has the green light to do anything it wants.
Syria and or Iran are currently no worse off than when the recent conflict began. They in fact could be viewed in the Arab world as heros; they could be viewed by the world as heros if they propose accepted solutions to the UN.
Lebanon is the biggest loser. Their frail democracy is dead. The US encouraged Syria to endit’s influence and the strongest thing left was Hezbollah.
If the US wants to WIN, then they will need to learn to TALK to all players. They will need to be able to tell both sides “NO”, without cheerleading one side without any criticism. I have wrote this in several blogs, no takers? This is not a progressive or liberal theme: it is the theme of diplomats and statesmen who know better (Buchanan, Wilkerson, Armitage).
This isn’t hard to understand – the terrorists have won because there will now be lots more of them!!!!
We have to stop enabling behavior that supports this trend.
This isn’t about cheering for Israel or for terrorists; shoudl be about encouraging alliances and policies that tend to minimize extemism and hatred. If the US expects Lebanon to exist, then it needs to strongly support the moderate interests their. We have not. We need to stop supporting extremists and extremist action. We need to be able talk to all stakeholders, not hope someone (Syria, the UN – or whomever Bush was referring to) will handle this in our stead.
Stop fueling the fire. Put some fires out——somewhere!
July 30th, 2006 at 6:41 pmIt seems you cannot defend the issue, so you try to muddy the issue, with other problems.
Leave Israel alone and they’ll leave their neighbors alone. Period.And those recently-bulldozed Israeli settlements in Gaza were just…what? “Leaving them alone?”
The arab world is rich. They keep people poor, to do their dirty work.
Like the Saudis and 9/11? Except the terrorists weren’t poor; they were middle-classed. And from a country considered to be an American ally. There are rich arab countries and poor arab countries, with competing ideologies and goals. Your simplistic rhetoric seems designed for red state consumption – but I don’t think even the hicks will swallow this “Israel good/ Arabs bad” anymore.
If you fire rockets from a building full of women and children,
you must accept at least half the responsiblity for their deaths.
Comment by Ra — July 30, 2006 @ 6:25 pm
And when you supply the Israelis with weapons, you get the other half.
July 30th, 2006 at 6:53 pmIf you fire rockets from a building full of women and children,
you must accept at least half the responsiblity for their deaths.
Comment by Ra — July 30, 2006 @ 6:25 pm
And when you supply the Israelis with weapons, you get the other half.
Comment by Barfly — July 30, 2006 @ 6:53 pm
HA HA HA HA Nice one barfly
July 30th, 2006 at 7:17 pmyou are both so full of shit your eyes must be brown……
another sharonism! that one’s rich…
July 30th, 2006 at 7:41 pmnew to me … must remember that one!
I think the characterization is spot-on. While it was not their intention to provide cover for Hezbollah, the fact is they were providing cover.
Comment by Chase — July 30, 2006 @ 5:19 pm
Your argument went from “Hezbollha fighter were nearby so Israel is not to blame”, to “the UN is wholly to blame because they actively provided cover”.
Nice moving goal posts technique. Your latest argument makes even less sense than the first: You cannot say the UN observers provided cover, while arguing it was not their intention. “Provide” implies active participation. That’s a gross mischaracterisation -unless your argument now is that the UN was bent on providing cover to Hezbollha fighters. Keep in mind the article you linked to clearly explains the fighters were nearby, not in or on the UN post.
Also, your argument that the UN observers should have packed and left is ridiculous as it was safer for them to stay. A UN post cannot be changed at a whim: all parties involved need to be notified of the new position to avoid being a target, and then hope the change in coordinates does not cause confusion in a war situation.
I think the UN should not attempt to engage itself on battlefields, with Blue Helmets, or with security forces or anything.
The bombed post was not a Blue Helmet, peacekeeping position, but an unnarmed post of observers. They were set up after the withdrawal of Israel from the region and meant to monitor violence along the border. The observers were caught in the onslaught nobody expected.
By actually taking to the military theater, they do nothing but risk their own lives.
More blaming the dead ones. How classy of you, Chase.
This whole situation only further proves how accurate I am.
This whole situation only further highlights how callous you are in your disregard for innocent human lives.
July 30th, 2006 at 7:47 pmyou are both so full of shit your eyes must be brown……
another sharonism! that one’s rich…
new to me … must remember that one!
Comment by katy
Soooo, those of us with blue eyes are only nose-high full of shit? :-D
July 30th, 2006 at 8:04 pmWar is not a hobby.
July 31st, 2006 at 8:28 am[...] Rice abandons talks, shuttles back to the United States.Think Progress, DC - Jul 30, 2006 Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was forced to cancel a trip to Beirut Sunday after an Israeli airstrike killed more than 50 people, mostly women and … [...]
July 31st, 2006 at 8:50 pm