ThinkFast: July 31, 2006
ThinkFast: July 31, 2006
Rove attacks the media. During his commencement speech at GWU graduate school of political management, “Rove lambasted journalists for playing what he said was a ‘corrosive role’ in politics by ‘focusing on process, not substance.’”
Is the U.S. prodding Israel to attack Syria? The Jerusalem Post reports, “[Israeli] Defense officials told the Post last week that they were receiving indications from the United States that the US would be interested in seeing Israel attack Syria.”
Arguing Iraq is a central front in the war on terror, Iraqi officials are demanding that they be compensated with economic and military assistance for fighting terrorists on behalf of other countries. “Iraq is now defending not only Iraqis but is also defending the region and the world,†national security adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie said. “So what is the world giving us in return?â€
Medicare’s “doughnut hole†is starting to hit shocked and angry seniors. “They have just learned that their Medicare drug plans are maxing out on early coverage and that they must spend $2,850 from their own pockets before coverage will resume.â€
“Britain and California are preparing to sidestep the Bush administration and fight global warming together by creating a joint market for greenhouse gases. … Such a move could help California cut carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases scientists blame for warming the planet. President Bush has rejected the idea of ordering such cuts.â€
The Special Inspector General for Iraq reported recently that “the State Department agency in charge of $1.4 billion in reconstruction money in Iraq used an accounting shell game to hide ballooning cost overruns on its projects there and knowingly withheld information on schedule delays from Congress.â€
DeLay’s day in court. “The 5th Circuit federal appeals court in New Orleans on Monday will become the latest venue for the partisan legal battle over whether Tom DeLay — the former House majority leader who resigned from Congress under a cloud of ethics controversies June 9 — must remain on the ballot this November as the Republican nominee in Texas’ 22nd District.”
The Boston Globe investigates the world of consumer debt in the United States, finding “a system where debt collectors have a lopsided advantage, debtors are often treated shabbily by collectors and the courts, and consumers can quickly find themselves in a life-upending financial crisis.â€
And finally: Indiana homeland security officials have warned Vermillion County to stop using electronic emergency message boards to advertise fish fries, spaghetti dinners and other events. The Department of Homeland Security bought the signs for $300,000 because the area is considered a potential terrorist target. Local officials defended their use of the signs, claiming that sponsors of a spaghetti dinner fundraiser and an elementary school carnival reported larger-than-normal turnouts after message board ads.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Global warming is a myth. War on Terror is the priority.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:11 amok, jason… that’s how you feel… ok.
now, on to reality…
July 31st, 2006 at 9:14 amIs the U.S. prodding Israel to attack Syria?
i thought we already knew that…
July 31st, 2006 at 9:15 amNot to sound bitchy Iraq, but you got ‘freedom’.
Now shut up, and fight for bush.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:16 amIf one song could change a million votes in November what would you do?
Pass it on of course.
Goper’s Lament
July 31st, 2006 at 9:18 amThe Boston Globe investigates the world of consumer debt in the United States, finding “a system where debt collectors have a lopsided advantage, debtors are often treated shabbily by collectors and the courts, and consumers can quickly find themselves in a life-upending financial crisis.â€
But hey those tax cuts will really help. Oh wait they are for the rich….dang.
Medicare’s “doughnut hole†is starting to hit shocked and angry seniors.
The Dems have to push that the Republican Party is causing this misery on the elderly. I hate it when people can’t look ahead and see what bad policy will do and it takes getting “hit in the face by reality” until they see it.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:23 amMaybe the larger states of the US might begin to see their interests elsewhere ….. interesting times.
Global Warming
Stem Cells
Evolution
Who wants to be part of a federation determined to frustrate science on these important issues?
July 31st, 2006 at 9:23 amIf 10,000 voting machine could change 1 million votes, what would you do?
July 31st, 2006 at 9:23 am#7, Brian,
That sounds like a vieled call for California or New York to secede from the union. Why don’t you say it out loud so the feds can track you?
July 31st, 2006 at 9:34 ami want to see this here…
Protesting Along the Paseo
MEXICO CITY — Runner-up presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador called on hundreds of thousands of supporters at a rally Sunday to set up encampments in the central square and along miles of the capital’s most famous boulevard until a federal tribunal orders a recount of the July 2 election.
if they can take the heat, we can take the cold…
July 31st, 2006 at 9:35 amGlobal Warning is a reality. Ignorance is also a reality.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:36 amhey! it’s just bustin’ out all over:
Sri Lanka rebel says war back on
COLOMBO (Reuters) – Sri Lanka’s two-decade civil war is back on, a top Tamil Tiger said, as seven soldiers and three rebels were killed on Monday in the first army advance on rebel-held territory since a 2002 cease-fire.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:39 amTo Jason H.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:42 amI notice that you are still commenting frequently on various TP threads, despite your assertion on an earlier “Think Fast” thread that “liberals are trying to squeelch(sic) free speech.” You still haven’t replied how you manage to post so frequently–far more frequently than myself, by the way–when liberals are supposedly trying to stifle free speech.
And unless you have qualifications as a climatologist or some field of science related to global warming, you’re just wasting everyone’s time with your claims that “global warming is a myth” and that Michael Crichton has proved that much with his made-up (ie. false) charts. Incidentally, you still haven’t answered my twice-posed question if you think dinosaurs can be brought back, as in another Crichton book.
Medicare’s “doughnut hole†is starting to hit shocked and angry seniors.
Shocked? Gimmie a break. Hey, wrinklies, many of you voted for this clown. You made your own bed, now sleep in it.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:42 amThe cease fire is complete crap, now that Israel has broken it, and who knows what the hell is going on in Iraq, but guess what? Mel Gibson was arrested for DUI, and he’s rude and a great big potty mouth when he’s drunk off his ass. That’s what was on CNN & MSNBC this morning.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:47 amMassacres and Wirecutters
I just don’t know what to say. The bodies of so many children bring tears, not words.
Even if you believed the crazy Bush and Blair logic, I cannot understand how anyone can look at these tiny corpses and say “it is worth it to eradicate Islamic fundamentalism”. If you do that, you could watch the corpses from the gas chambers and say “its worth it to elminate the World Jewish conspiracy.”
And if it needed any more underlining, where was Tony Blair? At a meeting addressing Rupert Murdoch’s chief executives from News International. My last musings suggested that anyone who stayed in the Labour Party was a pariah. That was not strong enough.
I don’t know if the bomb that killed 37 – and rising – children was carried on a plane that landed in the UK. Quite likely. I see that Prestwick being considered insecure, they are now coming through USAF Mildenhall.
I hope that everyone will come to the national demo from the Stop the War Movement on 5 August. Once that is over, perhaps the next day, let us organise a reclamation, however temporary, of part of Mildenhall from the Americans.
This is going to involve, at least, getting beaten up and arrested. But how do you weigh that against 37 child corpses? I am up for it. Wire cutters, anyone?
Craig
July 31st, 2006 at 9:48 amArguing Iraq is a central front in the war on terror, Iraqi officials are demanding that they be compensated with economic and military assistance for fighting terrorists on behalf of other countries
ha ha. Bush’s bull bites ‘em in the butt. Wanna lay claim to be “fightin’ ter’ists over there, so we don’t have to fight ‘em here,” well, “over there” may want $$$ to keep up the fightin’.
What now? Will the bushista just argue/admit that the majority of the hostilities are rooted in ethnic in-fighting and insurgency (and not terr’ism), or do we just continue to throw more dough at Iraq.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:53 amThis comment by Rove is a beautiful example of projection: “There are practitioners of politics who hold that voters are dumb, ill-informed and easily misled, that voters can be manipulated by a clever ad or smart line.”
Yes, like “The War on Terror,” “we’re fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here,” “the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud”, etc. etc. ad nauseum.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:54 amAhhh, Rove blaming the media…
bushco asking Israel to bomb Syria….
I would say it almost smells like shit this morning, but wait….Oh Yes! TrollJason comes in and rants first thing! Shit has truely arrived….
Jason, you take the shit award. How’s your web site going?
July 31st, 2006 at 9:55 am#12, Lora,
Liberals are waging a blog, email, letter and phone campaign to get Ann Coulter kicked out of newspapers – I see it on a few blogs and see the results. Climatologists have made predictions for years that have NOT come true, so on that basis alone, I can dismiss their new predictions. As for resurrecting dinosaurs, the process outlined in Jurassic Park is believeable, but the question remains if we will ever have the technology (software, processing power) to reconstruct the DNA, and if there is enough of the DNA still existing within amber or other fossils to reconstruct any ancient organisms, much less dinosaurs. More likely, we will develop methods of manipulate DNA to create / design new organisms and recreate ancient ones. I do believe that there should be enough DNA in those frozen Mammoths to clone one of those, and gestate them in an elephant.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:58 amWAR REPRESENTS FAILURE!
Monday 31st of July 2006
by Jay Randal
War is NOT diplomacy, by other means, but actually represents failure to implement diplomatic solutions!
Any nation that refuses to negotiate, with its enemies, becomes a militaristic society bent on force!
Militarism always mutates into a cancerous system, of aggression, that threatens neighboring nation-states!
As the military power grows stronger, so does desire to intimidate weaker foes, and to unleash dogs of war!
Warmongering quickly becomes the norm, and not an exception, so conflicts become routine and horrific too!
Israel has become such a nation, that believes military force is the only solution, and justifies its aggression!
The vile assault on the civilians, of Lebanon, denotes immoral conduct cloaked in the guise to defend Israel!
The Bush Regime complicity in helping Israel to wage war harms the US, destroys its morality, and prestige!
( Jay Randal, political activist and writer in Stone Mountain, Georgia.)
July 31st, 2006 at 10:03 am#19-Jason,
What Coulter does is not “free-speech”, it’s a vaudeville act. It’s camp. Learn the difference.
Climatologists have made predictions for years that have NOT come true, so on that basis alone, I can dismiss their new predictions.-Hendler
Just when I thought you couldn’t say anything dumber, you surpass my wildest expectations.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:04 amJason H.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:07 amObviously,regardless of what scientists and their detractors say, you sense nothing from the record heat waves posted in recent years and the fact that glaciers are melting at an unprecedented pace, etc., right? I have no idea of whether this campaign you describe to oust Ann Coulter actually exists or not, but she still is seen far more frequently on TV than the equivalent nemesis to conservatives, Michael Moore, even though she makes outrageous remarks like “Al Gore is a fag” and mixes up South Dakota and South Carolina when discussing an anti-abortion measure.
In any case, liberals don’t seem to be trying to squelch your free speech, as evidenced by your very frequent posts.
#19 Jason
Liberals aren’t waging a campaign to specifically make Ann Coulter go away (though it’d certainly be nice), rather, liberals are waging a campaign to push out liars, theifs, and in general – conservative assholes from the media and back to the hole from whence they came.
As for climatologists sucking at their jobs, science is seldom ever exact in its’ predictions – however, this is something certain and very logical. Evidence lies, actually, in the data collected even these past few years – 2005 was the hottest recorded year on record, same for 2006. In fact, it is the hottest it’s ever been in the past millenia – this isn’t natural, it’s happening, whether or not conservatives choose to accept it. Sadly, we have no time waiting for solid, hard evidence – because that solid hard evidence lies in a global catastrophe, costing millions of lives, creating millions of refugees, and causing at least trillions in damages.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:08 amMedicare’s “doughnut hole†is starting to hit shocked and angry seniors.
I’m laughing my ass off, George W. Bush! That’s a good one, those old timers never saw it coming. That’s a knee-slapper, that is!
/sarcasm off
July 31st, 2006 at 10:11 am#19, JMH,
July 31st, 2006 at 10:11 amYou’re the elephant in the room.
Aren’t you against stem cell research? Do you know that DNA is part
of that process? Have you checked with ‘your boys’ before commenting?
Global Warming is a myth.
If that’s true, conservative idealogy is a myth.
Here in the upper midwest this weekend, all time high temp records were
shattered across a 4 State area. 112 degrees in Bismark, North Dakota!
‘06 is evolving as the warmest Summer on record.
Christ, where do you keep your brains?
Bad questions; when will you start using your brain?
#23, Xbot,
Speaking of catastrophe, have you heard about all the murders in New Orleans. Even with the National Guard, state troopers and the NOPD, refugees are killing each other at a record clip.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:12 am#19 Jason,
Climatologists have made predictions for years that have NOT come true, so on that basis alone, I can dismiss their new predictions
Just because the weatherman said it would be sunny and it rained doesn’t mean you should discount global warming. Just to let you know the bulk of the predictions have come to happen. Maybe not in the exact way that they were oresented but I guess thats why they call them predictions or estimates. Seeing the future is a neo-con trait. At least thats what they claim. So to discount all the science that is being proven right because some of the predictions don’t happen is a little petty.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:14 amSpeaking of Ann Coulter, I am in deep mourning because this weekend when I was visiting the old people, (my parents), I observed the book “Godless” on the book shelf. I was shocked! I knew they bought into Bill O’Reilly’s spew, but really, Ann Coulter? I thought I had some idea who those people were! Maybe I’m adopted…
July 31st, 2006 at 10:16 amOh, ew, GWB is talking again, and he’s got his sleeves rolled up. That’s never good.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:17 am#25, Zimzone,
To my knowledge, you can create a clone from an unfertilized egg, as opposed to an embryo, so there is no moral dilemma there, other than the morality of resurrecting extinct species – they are extinct for a reason. There is no problem using genetics to cure diseases. The question comes when you manipulate genetics to create designer lifeforms (modifying physical / mental aspects of plants, animals, people to suit desires, not needs). As is, the creation of duplid flowers is abhorrent to me – imagine what genetics could create.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:17 am#19 Jason,
Jurasic Park will never happen, Bush will veto any bill that would support that; too much like Stem-Cell for him. No one needs to get rid of Poison Annie, she’ll do it to herself, with other author’s words of course. Her once vaunted novel is now Number 7 on the list behind several “leftie books”. Eventually every person of her ilk is found out.
By the way Jason, is it true that you also believe that Superman is real????
July 31st, 2006 at 10:17 am#23
Oh aren’t you the little conservative? Oh, they grow up so fast. Topic Changing has to be one of those born-in skills, you know? Regardless, I’d prefer you answer my arguments, as opposed to changing the topic like only a global warming denialist could do.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:18 amRove attacks the media. During his commencement speech at GWU graduate school of political management, “Rove lambasted journalists for playing what he said was a ‘corrosive role’ in politics by ‘focusing on process, not substance.’â€
Rove must carry his balls around in a wheel barrow.
HT: katy
July 31st, 2006 at 10:18 amOops, I meant #26.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:20 am#28, zoo,
Good morning.
The elderly become more conservative as they age – embrace the coming change – don’t fight it. Oh, and when dubya has his sleeve up, it shows he’s working hard for you as your president.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:20 amBush never works hard on anything, except riding his bicycle > lol.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:22 am#32, Xbot,
The predictions haven’t materialized – it’s hype. If there were any evidence of global warming, then the trial lawyers that dems support would be hauling the government and oil companies into court, just like cigarette companies.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:24 am#37 Jason
Sadly, it’s not possible to do that. Oil Companies have been throwing far too much money at congress to keep them quiet. Change can only come through those outside the system.
And the predictions have materialized – I’m looking down here on my FireFox taskbar – two days are very hot and humid days – that’s unusual for Michigan, to have so many days that are dangerous to be outside in. That’s not normal at all, and you can’t contribute it to much other than Global Warming.
And, just in case we’re talking different sets of predictions – what the crap predictions arey ou talking about? We’re talking about real climatologists here Jason, not Ann Coulter denialists.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:29 am#35 – Jason
The elderly become more conservative as they age – embrace the coming change – don’t fight it.
That better not be a crack about my age, Jason, you’re not that much younger than me. And you better believe I’ll fight it!
Oh, and when dubya has his sleeve up, it shows he’s working hard for you as your president.
No, it means the crap is getting deep and he doesn’t want to muss his cuffs.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:29 amembrace the coming change – don’t fight it.
How fascist does that sound?
July 31st, 2006 at 10:35 amDeath March With Cocktails
New PBS chief shows refreshing willingness to go to the mat with the FCC in culture wars
The current Issue du Jour at PBS as it pertains to cowering from government fines relates first to San Mateo station KCSM — which is facing potential fines for showing, of all things, Martin Scorsese’s documentary about blues music — and Ken Burns, who’s making a documentary called “The War” (fall of 2007) and who’s worried that swearing may result in the FCC going ballistic in response to people at the Parents Television Council who think war should be “heck” and not “hell.” For the safety of the kids, I suppose. (In fairness, it doesn’t have to just be the PTC throwing cold water on creativity and realism. You, too, can be a reactionary yahoo and complain to the FCC, which would then take up your fight and punish filmmakers because you can’t use a remote.)
We might be winning this one…hopefully
July 31st, 2006 at 10:36 amJason,
You don’t seem to grasp that your talk about global warming being a myth makes you sound like a freaking idiot and pretty well destroys your credibility across the board.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:36 am[...] from NY Times via thinkprogress.org [...]
July 31st, 2006 at 10:37 amZooey, don’t loose hope……Eventualy we all become our parents.,LOL…..Some to a greater degree…..How’s the weather over there this morning.? Sunny here….Blessings on the way.
#30 Jason..your last line…..Imagine what genetics could create…..We can all see what to many recessive genes have caused by your posts…..Give it up….Just go away…..
Jay, Great posts as usual……..Blessings
July 31st, 2006 at 10:41 am#42
July 31st, 2006 at 10:41 amRealScientist,
That doesn’t matter to him. I think he is just trying to make everyone more stupid just by reading his inane writings.
Hmm.. Karl Rove talking about ‘process over substance’. I saw a congressman using that exact same accusation on the house floor Friday evening on CPAN during debates on pension reform. Am I sensing a campaign theme?
July 31st, 2006 at 10:49 amGlobal warming is only a myth in the USA.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:50 am47. Global warming is only a myth in the minds of 31% of the fools in the USA.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:51 amwhen I was visiting the old people, (my parents), I observed the book “Godless†on the book shelf. I was shocked! I knew they bought into Bill O’Reilly’s spew, but really, Ann Coulter? I thought I had some idea who those people were! Maybe I’m adopted…
Comment by Zooey — July 31, 2006 @ 10:16 am
i thought you seemed bummed when you posted after your return… i know how you feel though… and every family has to have one – “the adopted one” (figuatively, of course)… chin up…
July 31st, 2006 at 11:02 amwhat book did you leave behind? are they too stubborn to read that?
Rove must carry his balls around in a wheel barrow.
HT: katy
Comment by Zooey — July 31, 2006 @ 10:18 am
much as i’d like to take credit for that line, i must fess up – it was not me… darn, i cannot remember who it was… i do remember the conversation, and i added to it, somewhat with a comment about “imagine how big his toes are”, gravity… oh… it’ll come to me…
but thanks!
July 31st, 2006 at 11:08 am#31, IV,
Doesn’t matter what dubya allows, private funds can proceed with any genetic research – remember Bush wanting to pass legislation to prevent the creation of human / animal hybrids?
Superman is a comic book character with powers that defy physics, much less human physiology. His character is a metaphor for strength, justice and the American way.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:14 amBush to Armageddon: “Bring It On!”
(clip)
Okay, it’s clear now that the Neo-con, Bush theory of creating maximum chaos has metastasized.
Only Dr. Strangelove wannabees believe that if you exponentially increase death, blood, disorder, conflict and profiteering, you somehow end up with peace.
Or maybe it’s that they really just want permanent instability. The Republican Party can’t win if there is peace. That is a simple truth.
They have nothing to offer domestically but bankruptcy, the dismantling of the American government and the U.S. Constitution, some wedge issues from the Victorian era, and unconscionable tax cuts for the wealthiest one percent of Americans.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:14 amJason,You don’t seem to grasp that your talk about global warming being a myth makes you sound like a freaking idiot and pretty well destroys your credibility across the board.
Comment by RealScientist — July 31, 2006 @ 10:36 am
and yet he continues to draw in the responses…
July 31st, 2006 at 11:15 amand as i was the first, i must relent, but i was hoping
TO SEND A MESSAGE… not heeded… oh well…
#40, zoo,
No, not a crack about your age. Why would a strong independent feminist be sensative about her age?
July 31st, 2006 at 11:16 amI concede that greenhouse gases are building in the atmosphere. I also don’t care for burning fossil fuels, which is why I advocate hydro-electric, nuclear, wind, wave, solar and geo-thermal power, which would in turn generate fuels used in fuel cells, making a clean energy system end to end.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:20 amIsn’t it about time the MEDIA attacks ROVE? Journalists have to take this guy on for his immoral tactics. Unfortunately, its going to take a journalist who is able to risk his job with the corporate owners (”liberal media” – LOL).
July 31st, 2006 at 11:25 amMegachurch pastor eschews right-wing politics…saying it’s not the church’s place to promote war and moralize on sex…and he loses 1,000 members! 7/31
Disowning Conservative Politics, Evangelical Pastor Rattles Flock
July 31st, 2006 at 11:31 amGlobal warming is a myth. War on Terror is the priority.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 9:11 am
but,
I concede that greenhouse gases are building in the atmosphere. I also don’t care for burning fossil fuels, which is why I advocate hydro-electric, nuclear, wind, wave, solar and geo-thermal power, which would in turn generate fuels used in fuel cells, making a clean energy system end to end.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 11:20 am
Disconnect – total; Credibility – zero.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:41 amDisowning Conservative Politics, Evangelical Pastor Rattles Flock
Comment by madashell — July 31, 2006 @ 11:31 am
good for him… i’d bet that this story will win that church some new congregants…
July 31st, 2006 at 11:42 amSadly, we have no time waiting for solid, hard evidence – because that solid hard evidence lies in a global catastrophe, costing millions of lives, creating millions of refugees, and causing at least trillions in damages.
Comment by Xbot — July 31, 2006 @ 10:08 am
Actually I’d respectfully disagree with the premise of your post that the evidence is not “hard”. The overwhelming consensus of climatologists, with the exception of a few outliers, is that humans are contributing significantly to global warming. Given the issues complexity, we are compelled to look to the experts for the lead on this subject.
The outliers almost without exception have clear ties to the oil and gas lobby, and must be dismissed as tainted.
Until the consensus shifts nothing an agenda heavy right wing nut bag has to say, should sway anyone. Their agenda is clear, the palable political panic in the GOP is what is driving the current hysterical pushback on reality. They have been on the wrong side of this discussion from day one, and they were obviously terribly, terribly wrong. Nontheless, reality has a nasty habit of reasserting itself:-)
A common observation of nay sayers is to point too climatologists that have been wrong. Let me say a few things on that subject.
The computers at our disposal now, are millions of times more powerful than the machines that clunked out the first climate models in the 1970’s, the software that they run on, hundreds of times more nuanced and flexible.
To point to the predictions from the 70’s, and say “see, they were wrong then, how can they be right now?”, shows a complete failure to understand the nature of sceince. In practical terms, almost every theory is “wrong” is just that some are less wrong than others. For example, Newton was “wrong” about Gravity because Einstein refined the theory substantially.
It is quite despicable how the right wing turn the very nature and essence of sceince in on itself in this discussion. It really grates, but when they do it, it is the mark of true right winger, and should be a red flag.
I’m positive the climatologists are “wrong” as regards their predictions, in the sense that Newton was “wrong” about Gravity, but I’ll take their “wrong” over some shills “right” any day.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:42 am#59, Peter,
My desire to replace burning fossil fuels with clean energy systems is based on pollution concerns, not global warming. Libs overreach with predictions that the sky is falling in 100 or 1000 years, or worse, make a prediction in 5 or 10 years that doesn’t come true.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:46 am#61, Brian,
Out of curiosity, how was Newton wrong about gravity?
July 31st, 2006 at 11:47 am#63
July 31st, 2006 at 11:54 amShowing your ignorance again. Look it up. It’s widely known that Newton had mistakes in his theory that were later corrected.
#64, dlet,
If it’s widely known, then I am sure you wouldn’t mind itemizing them for me – I wouldn’t bother asking you to explain them.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:59 amPS let me take this opportunity to congratulate the Scottish ‘Stop the War ‘ Campaign for stopping the flights through Prestwick.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:59 amJason seems to only have the ability to see black and white…he has no gray matter.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:00 pm#65
July 31st, 2006 at 12:01 pmNo thanks. If you are to lazy to put time into enriching yourself through education then don’t expect others to walk you through it. I get it from your numerous flawed positions on scientific positions you don’t like to read much so it would be a waste of my time.
66. My cup is raised!!!
July 31st, 2006 at 12:01 pmThis should help clear things up :
July 31st, 2006 at 12:03 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation#General_relativity
#66. Well done indeed!!! :-)
July 31st, 2006 at 12:05 pmThe conservative Global Warming Merry Go Round:
Conservative Pundit: Global Warming is a myth!
Scientific Community: Well, actually we have evidence that over the past century, the earth has significantly increased in average temperature.
Conservative Pundit: Okay, Global Warming is happening, but it’s NOT as a resulty of humans! It’s a natural cycle out of our control!
Scientific Community: Well, actually we have evidence that the rate at which the earth is heating up is faster than at any point in time in history and we also have evidence that the things humans are doing (such as CO2 emissions) are creating a so-called “blanket” or “greenhouse effect” on the earth.
Conservative Pundit: MICHAEL CHRICHTON!!!
Scientific Community: Actually, he’s a science fiction writer and we’ve debunked all his claims years ago.
Conservative Pundit: Meteorologists can’t even reliably predict when it is going to rain. How can we believe scientists will know what will happen 50 years from now?
Scientific Community: There is a big difference between modeling short-term weather patterns and long-term climate changes. As an analogy, we know that the seasons will change each year, even if we do not know how many inches of rain will fall exactly during summer. Therefore, you cannot extrapolate that climate change modelling is innaccurate outside of the predicted statistical ranges just because the 60% chance of rain ended up turning into a dry day.
Conservative Pundit: … Uhm…. Global Warming is a myth!
And so the cycle continues…
July 31st, 2006 at 12:07 pmIt quoted Gibson as launching an expletive-laden “barrage of anti-Semitic remarks” after he was stopped on Pacific Coast Highway, Los Angeles.
The report claimed, in addition to threatening the arresting deputy and trying to escape, Gibson said: “The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.”
The document has not been made public, but the Los Angeles Times reported it has independently verified its authenticity.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:12 pmMel Gibson ranted anti-Semitic remarks during his arrest for drink driving
It quoted Gibson as launching an expletive-laden “barrage of anti-Semitic remarks” after he was stopped on Pacific Coast Highway, Los Angeles.
The report claimed, in addition to threatening the arresting deputy and trying to escape, Gibson said: “The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.”
The document has not been made public, but the Los Angeles Times reported it has independently verified its authenticity.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:14 pmAs a shock tactic, a national group that opposes abortion plans to fly a billboard-size picture of an aborted fetus over Cleveland beginning Monday.
The Center for Bio-Ethical Reform, which frequently employs such attention-grabbing advertising, hopes to jar people into reconsidering their support of abortion, director Gregg Cunningham said.
He said the banner would be the most graphic picture ever displayed from the air
If I’m not mistaken, these are the same guys who were passing out fetus dolls at the 4th of July parade to little kids.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:40 pmFor some reason, I do not feel much sympathy for seniors who are now waking up to the shock of having to fork out almost $3k to pay for Shrub’s drug ripoff. For the most part, these are same folks who had put their faith and votes into the comedian, simply because he belived in the Sky Fairy. Hopefully, the reality here on the ground will wake them up from their foolish slumber, and realize what a jackass Shrub is, he doesn’t have their interest at heart, nor does any of the other rethuglican kooks. I am sorry that the innocent ones have to pay for the ill-deeds of their stupid bretheren, but when these geezers get riled up against a cause, it’s usually a good thing. The rethugs have blown a hole in their foot – again, and are now limping into November.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:44 pm#65, JMFH
Newton’s mistakes in his theory of gravitation were legion, but all of them were negligible from an “apple falling to the ground” point of view. As perhaps the most famous of many examples:
Newton thought that the force of gravity would act instantaneously between any pair of massive bodies, but Einstein theorized (and experimentation later proved) that, like all other forces in nature, gravity propagates at no greater than the speed of light.
Newton also thought that only objects with mass could be influenced by the force of gravity, but Einstein theorized (and observation later proved) that light itself, which has no mass, is “bent” and Doppler-shifted by gravitation.
Many but not all of Newton’s predictions about gravity are true to the extent that naked eyes can determine. Most of the anomalies can only be detected by finely tuned instrumentation under extraordinary circumstances.
Likewise the broad predictions of climatologists about global warming have all come to pass, but not always exactly in the predicted timeframe. However, when you are dealing with a science that typically measures change over hundreds, if not thousands, of years, being off on a prediction by as little as five to ten years is really VERY close.
In real, predictive terms, Global warming is about as close to proven reality as Newton’s theory of gravitation, which, while not perfect, is close enough to perfect that every engineer in the world relies on its predictions daily to keep airplanes up in the air and to keep buildings and bridges from falling down.
Nobody claims that climate prediction is “perfect”, but it is definitely good enough to predict temperatures and sea level that our children will have to live with if we don’t fix things.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:47 pm#77, Balrog,
Ah, yes, the inverse square law of gravity doesn’t hold on a galactic scale. Regarding the propagation of gravitational effects, Halton Arp has a webpage that discusses how the cause and effect of gravity happens at many, many times the speed of light, so Einstein wasn’t quite right either.
Einstein’s relativity and curved space approach, which “explains” a mathematical model that reinforces cosmological observation, is somewhat of a dodge. Einstein created a relative framework, that allows him to explain observed effects like red / blue shift, but doesn’t explain at what point the photons are red / blue shifted – source, observer, path? From the information I’ve seen, I believe gravity to be a pushing force / pressure in the interstellar medium, that follows the inverse square law in low mass scenarios (solar system), but eventually reaches a maximum value at galactic mass scales due to blocking / shadowing by super massive, super dense objects. Even very low or “no” mass particles (light) are effected by this interstellar medium and follow curved paths when this medium is blocked by massive objects.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:14 pm(…)so Einstein wasn’t quite right either.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
The point exactly.
Every succesive explanation (i.e. theory) of natural phenomena is a little less “wrong” than its immediate predecessor. As we expand our understanding of our universe, new theories are put forth that supersede prior explanations.
Does that mean gravity does not exist? Or that the General Theory of Relativity should be discarded as a “myth” because it does not explain all phenomena in all of the universe?
Surely you can understand the lack of logic in such argument.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:21 pm#79, Gregor,
The effects of “gravity” are very real, it is our understanding of their cause that is wrong, and should be corrected. A “gravitational force” does not eminate from within matter, but from outside the matter from an interstellar medium, which weakly interacts with matter, pushing on all sides creating a pressure. The equilibrium of this pressure from all directions is destabilized by the blocking or shadowing of this pressure by the presence of other matter, causing two pieces of matter to block for each other, getting pushed together. Calculations within our solar system framework have proven satisfactory for our needs, and should not be discarded, but a new understanding is required.
Relativity theory again is a dodge of the bigger questions, and serves to just explain certain observations. It needn’t by tossed away, just fleshed out to explain how / where the effects happen.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:34 pm$61
I was referring to the impossibly solid evidence that conservatives required – for me, people trained to calculate this stuff, who are spending their entire lifes trying to warn a potentially soon-dead society are quite enough evidence.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:39 pmRelativity theory again is a dodge of the bigger questions, and serves to just explain certain observations.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
Relativity is not a dodge. Had Einstein wanted to dodge the issue, he would not have bothered with it, in the first place. It is an explanation, albeit not a perfect one.
No scientific theory explains all observations, simply because our own understanding of the universe is imperfect. We have to be humble about our own capacity to discern.
It needn’t by tossed away, just fleshed out to explain how / where the effects happen.
If by “fleshed out” you mean perfected, then yes. Like all scientific theories. That does not invalidate it. It merely means -again- our knowledge is imperfect.
I will take Einstein’s “wrong” (aka imperfect knowledge) over the “right” of a science fiction writer any day.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:45 pm#81, Xbot,
There are ways to achieve your end without sounding hysterical and losing the support of the average American, which is all that I am saying. You need two things:
1) Identify a problem that the majority of Americans agrees is a problem.
2) Provide a feasible solution that the majority of Americans agrees is a good solution.
Republicans can do that, why can’t you?
July 31st, 2006 at 1:46 pm$61
Comment by Xbot — July 31, 2006 @ 1:39 pm
We agree:-)
July 31st, 2006 at 1:48 pmI will take Einstein’s “wrong†(aka imperfect knowledge) over the “right†of a science fiction writer any day.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 31, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
It should also be noted that there are real world applications that depend critically on relativity calculations to work correctly.
a) The Cathode Ray Tube.
b) GPS
Are two examples that spring immediatley to mind. Of course this was just a simple example to illustrate a point, we don’t need to obsess about it too deeply:-)
As balrog notes, no one is claiming that current climatology is perfect, just sufficiently “not wrong” for the purposes of determining risk. Just as Newtons laws are sufficiently “not wrong” to get you to the Moon and back.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:55 pmThere are ways to achieve your end without sounding hysterical and losing the support of the average American, which is all that I am saying.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
So, we have gone from denying (”global warming is a myth”) to looking for ways to gain public support (”There are ways to achieve your end”).
1) Identify a problem that the majority of Americans agrees is a problem.
The impact of global warming on coastal zones translates into loss of seafront property, and relocation of low-laying coastal communities (like Shishmaref, AK). That is palpable.
2) Provide a feasible solution that the majority of Americans agrees is a good solution.
Free our economy of oil-dependency and invest on “clean” energy are good ideas, and the American public already agrees they are.
Republicans can do that, why can’t you?
When it comes to global warming they don’t. They do what you do: deny.
It is impossible to do anything regarding 1) and 2) if there are still people who, like you, put so much time and effort into denying global warming. Specially if those people crowd Congress and are unwilling to lift a finger to help steer the country in the right direction.
July 31st, 2006 at 2:14 pm#86, Gregor,
To say “free our economy of oil-dependency and invest in clean energy” is far from presenting a feasible method of doing that. That is where your cause dies, the laughter we get from global warming rants is just icing on the cake.
July 31st, 2006 at 2:44 pmTo All Whom justify Isreal Right to defend itself in attacking lebanon, Now have to admit that lebanon now has the right to buy many many weapons to protect herslef from another Isreali attack in the future
Also America will never be welcome in the lebanon in the future you have lost a friend
July 31st, 2006 at 2:57 pmwe all saw Bush on tele tonight in Europe in Florida “rantin on about isreal rights to defend itself”
We hate the Guy
Also tell Blair to stay in America hes not welcome back to the UK
July 31st, 2006 at 2:59 pm2) Provide a feasible solution that the majority of Americans agrees is a good solution.
Free our economy of oil-dependency and invest on “clean†energy are good ideas, and the American public already agrees they are.
This is of course an excellent idea. Europeans are already a decade or so ahead of the US, plus they use 50% less energy per capita. This readily serves to illustrate how quickly the US could make gains. Simply having the same per capita energy consumption as the EU would solve the US’s oil dependency a single stroke.
Aggressive expansion of wind, wave and solar, through tax incentives, would provide a hugh boost to developed world manufacturing and some of it would even occur in the US!!
And lets not forget the billions given to the energy lobby. If this was instead given back to home owners, and small businesses in the form of tax breaks for distributed power solutions, this would benefit the renewables market to such an enormous degree, that they would quickly be able to compete on an even playing field with fossil fuels. Wind is already there.
If every middle class home and small business produced even 20% of it’s own energy needs, that, plus the elimination of transmission loss would be an enormous leap forward.
None of this requires new technology you understand, just an aggressive tax incentivised promotion of existing ones.
Ethanol holds the promise of reinvigorating both US and EU agriculture, as does the growing of elephant grass and other high energy crops to burn for energy generation. This has the added benefit of sequestering the CO2 it absorbs during the growing cycle. The more crops we have the better the impact.
All it requires is political will. Something utterly absent in the republican party:-( They really have to go.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:10 pmTo say “free our economy of oil-dependency and invest in clean energy†is far from presenting a feasible method of doing that.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
I didn’t realise you were expecting a thesis on the subject.
At any rate, I am not a policy maker and whatever plan I come up with has very little chances of being taken into consideratin, let alone implemented.
If you want to know how the US can do it without going bankrupt, let’s take a look at how top companies are reducing emissions of CO2 and other greenhouse gases.
Whatever steps are taken, however small and imperfect, is a huge improvement over the current White House stance (and yours too) that global warming is a myth.
That is where your cause dies, the laughter we get from global warming rants is just icing on the cake.
“your cause”? This is not my “cause” -you certainly have a interesting wording for it. This is certainly my concern, and I want the decisionmakers to get involved and do something about it; just like I want something to be done about the deficit -and that is not my “cause”either.
You might be laughing, but state governors across the US are not amused, and are taking steps so their states can reduce green house gas emissions.
That you didn’t know any of this, and instead were laughing at the “myth” is very telling indeed.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:14 pm#90, Brian,
Now those are feasible suggestions, especially using tax incentives and write-offs to create the market for clean energy.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:19 pm#90, Brian,
Now those are feasible suggestions, especially using tax incentives and write-offs to create the market for clean energy.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 3:19 pm
Not a word of original thought, although I did dredge it up from memory:-) Sweden is already half the way there : http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/3212/a/51058
July 31st, 2006 at 3:27 pm#93, Brian,
It certainly isn’t original thought, Republicans have requested those types of solutions all along. It is Democrats who hate ANY kind of tax revenue loss, even for environmental benefits.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pmIt is Democrats who hate ANY kind of tax revenue loss, even for environmental benefits.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
Ohhh I’m not convinced thats true. Tax cuts are a very different thing from tax relief especially when targeted. As far as I’m concerned the bottom 20% should pay practically no tax, and the top 10% should pay 50%+. Who needs more than €1,000,000 a year to live on?
July 31st, 2006 at 3:48 pmA “gravitational force†does not eminate from within matter, but from outside the matter from an interstellar medium, which weakly interacts with matter, pushing on all sides creating a pressure.
Then how do you explain observed gravity waves? Are you yanking us? Did you also say it’s possible to clone dinosaurs from fossilized insects? And Chriton’s grasp of science goes beyond its use as a dramatic device?
See kids, this is why it’s important to stay in school. Because the more you know, the less of an idiot you appear to be!
July 31st, 2006 at 4:05 pm#90 And that, to me, is yet another clear indication that the current administration is in the pocket of old energy interests. Why conservatives cannot see the economic opportunity – and the security argument – for moving from foreign sources to cleaner energy sources boggles.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:15 pmIt is Democrats who hate ANY kind of tax revenue loss, even for environmental benefits.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — July 31, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
I detect yet another change in the argument. We’ve moved from denying global warming, to admitting it happens while saying nobody has solutions, to admitting there might be feasible solutions if it wasn’t for those damn Democrats.
Even if it is true that Republicans have requested those solutions “all along”, fact remains that in this Republican-controlled Congress and Republican-run White House, the political interest to seriously address global warming is non-existent.
Even if Democrats “hate” tax revenue loss, fact remains they are the minority party and (would) have very little chances of stopping a Republican-led initiative to create tax incentives for alternative energy research and production, being -as it is- that the idea already has public support.
I am still puzzling as to why you are carrying so much water for the Bush adminsitration on this issue, as if your membership required it.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:46 pm[...] Think Progress [...]
July 31st, 2006 at 5:23 pmI hope that seniors will go to the polls in November and remember who they can thank for the donut hole in their drug coverage.
July 31st, 2006 at 6:47 pmi do remember the conversation, and i added to it, somewhat with a comment about “imagine how big his toes areâ€, gravity… oh… it’ll come to me…
Comment by katy
I thought it was you! Maybe it was Sharon. Somebody said that, and it wasn’t me, sooo
HT: somebody
July 31st, 2006 at 8:32 pm[...] ThinkFast: July 31, 2006Think Progress, DC - 11 hours ago… but is also defending the region and the world, national security adviser Mowaffak … for Iraq reported recently that the State Department agency in charge … [...]
July 31st, 2006 at 8:48 pm#101 Zooey it wasen’t me…..Maybe mad wrote it, remember it ws funny….Blessings
July 31st, 2006 at 10:14 pmzooey – hey… and sharon…
i had this nagging thought that it was Briseadh na Faire…
can you imagine? too funny…
but i really think it was a man who said it…
July 31st, 2006 at 10:47 pmmaybe that will jog your memory…
it was a weekend, and we/you ended up talking about the pirate movie…
[...] ThinkFast: July 31, 2006Think Progress, DC - 14 hours ago… The 5th Circuit federal appeals … homeland security officials have warned Vermillion County to stop using electronic emergency message boards to advertise … [...]
July 31st, 2006 at 11:23 pmSeniors were sold the complicated drug program, and it has proven to be the sham that was noted by many.
August 1st, 2006 at 12:29 amThe program is a boon to the pharmaceutical companies, but it was written in such a way that many seniors simply threw up their hands and signed on because the delaying of signup is punishing.
Even AARP agreed to the plan and advised signing on, hoping that they would be able to negotiate a better solution later – that caused thousands of savvy seniors to resign from AARP, and no deal has been negotiated. AARP has since regretted the move.
Too late. People have been shafted by BushCo AGAIN.
Troll Jason M. Hendler believes that calling for Ann Coulter’s column to be dropped is wrongheaded. He doesn’t say the same about a similar campaign to have Molly Ivins columns removed.
August 1st, 2006 at 12:32 amWhy does anyone engage that moron here.
He’s nothing but a PITA.
well, zooey – i found the joke, but nothing about a wheel barrow…
funny – your comment that prompted my gross joke got deleted, but i happened to copy it for my reply/joke:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/13/thinkfast-pm-july-13-2006/#comment-670629
this will bother me until i figure out who said that…
August 1st, 2006 at 12:40 amit’ll come to me about 2am… next week or so…
marie –
Even AARP agreed to the plan…AARP has since regretted the move.
Comment by Marie — August 1, 2006 @ 12:29 am
i’m glad to know that AARP regrets that – i was surprised when they did… and that is the reason i’ve not signed up with them… i should let them know that next time i get another application… yes, i will…
Troll Jason…Why does anyone engage that moron here.
He’s nothing but a PITA.
Comment by Marie — August 1, 2006 @ 12:32 am
good question… and he sure is a persistant PITA…
August 1st, 2006 at 12:50 amGlobal warming is a myth. War on Terror is the priority.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler —
To Jason H.
August 1st, 2006 at 2:51 amAdmitting my mind was a bit on other things yesterday, now I must ask if “war on terror is the priority, as you state, what do you make of the closing of the CIA unit that was supposed to be devoted to Osama bin Laden? Remember him, the mastermind behind 9/11?
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