“It’s sort of the fashionable liberal view
By on Aug 3rd, 2006 at 6:02 pm
“It’s sort of the fashionable liberal view
to be anti-American, anti-Israel.” — Rudy Giuliani, America’s mayor.
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Hey Rudy, go dump some dead bodies in the Hudson, scum-bag gangsta thug.
Continue to be a “has been”, and SHUT THE F*CK UP.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:07 pm#1 ditto from Texas.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:11 pmI always thought Guiliani was a little more moderate then this, I am disappointed.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:12 pmJesus was a Liberal. Giuliani, why do you hate Jesus?
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:13 pmGiuliani, take your comb-over and your “heroic” 9/11 facemask and go screw. You are an adulterer and an authoritarian.
-GSD
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:17 pmWhat’s odd is every time a Lebanon post comes up, 95% of the comments are reflexively anti-Israel (and anti-U.S. for supporting Israel) yet everyone now acts like Guiliani said something bizarre.
Do you guys read the posts here? For every one person saying Israel had to fight back hard against the Hezbollah terrorists there were 20 who would fight amongst themselves to see who could blame Israel first and loudest.
I’m a proud liberal, and I read most of the major liberal boards, but this is the one area I strongly disagree with my fellow progressives. And its silly to pretend it isn’t the case though – just read the posts whenever the topic of Lebanon comes up. The left is historically anti-Israel and the posts here and merely a reflection of that well known history.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:19 pmI am NOT anti-american I am ANTI-FASCIST
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:19 pmIm very dissapointed but i guess i saw it coming. being a new yorker i remember when he wasnt a good mayor. I could remember a time when he made it illigal to be homeless in New York and I remember a time when he tried to censor art, or to discontinue to pay public funds for a piece of art he didnt like or thought was offensive to himself. He has used 9/11 as a marketing tool for himself just like the rest of the republicans. I dont believe Guiliani and Bush, when 9/11 happened, did anything more significant or beneficial that any other person or government official would have done. infact, one could argue that someone else wouldve done a better job. Just remember that he has forgotten about us New Yorkers. he hasnt followed through and provided money needed to many to help pay for living or that was hurt by health dangers after 9/11. He COULD HAVE stood up and continued to demand that everyone will recieve. instead hes been traveling selling his bid for presidency and forgotten about why hes famous. Theres a lot of money that hasnt been distributed. as well as NY recieving significantly less for Homeland securties, even though Indiana gets a hell of a lot of money to protect nothing. this will be why he wouldnt win NY if he becomes the republican candidate.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:21 pmWhere does he come up with this stuff? Anti-American? No.
Anti-WhatAmericaHasBecomeUnderTheBushCabal? Yes. I no longer recognize the America is was born and raised in. It is more deeply divided than at any time in the past 60 years of my lifetime!
Anti-Israel? No.
Anti-IsraelWhoBombInnocentPeopleBecauseTheGovermentIsPokedInTheEye? Yes. I would expect a mature nation to behave maturely. Rather, the Israeli goverment knows only one way to respond to anything it doesn’t agree with, and that is through violence.
Geez. These ReichWingNuts are soooooooo black and white in their thinking. Nice for them as it makes things simple. But it’s hell for the rest of us who have to deal with reality and life.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:22 pmyes, how could anyone be anti-israel… rudy, you are my hero!
it is not like they have done anything to be critical of….
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said a third of the casualties in the 23-day-old conflict were children under 12.
i mean, they would have probably grown up to be terrerrisstttsss…
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:23 pmMost Christian respect Israel and know them as the chosen people of God. With the history of horror done to Jewish people the decent people thought of Jewish people as victims and righteous people. But now the world is seeing who Jewish people really are in their hearts. The US has supported Israel’s attacks on Lebanon. As hundreds of children are killed and US peace keepers are killed Israel and Bush say little but keep killing. What does God think of his chosen people now. Yes Mel Gibson’s comments were hurtful but even Barbara Walters said live on her show Jewish people might forgive if Mel build a synagogue. That tells the world what Jewish people really call forgiveness it’s all about the money. Let’s see Moses went to be the 10 Commandments while people build gold idols, Hitler killed innocent Jewish people and Jewish want painting, gold and money as repayment and as Israel kills the Lebanon people Israel wants money and weapons. There’s a pattern here but that’s for God to judge not me.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:23 pm#11 is all the proof of Guiliani’s comments anyone could have asked for. And why I am embarrassed at times to be a liberal.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:26 pmIsrael doesn’t have to kill 900 civilians to go after Hezbollah. Israel doesn’t have to use illegal munitions (cluster bombs, white phosphorous, and depleted uranium) to go after Hezbollah. Israel is murdering civilians. Criticizing Israel is legitimate.
The Neocon fascists have been bashing liberals for years, this is nothing new. They do this because they cannot win on the facts or the law.
Rudy Giuliani is a scumbag who brought his mistress home to meet the wife and kids. He has a lot of nerve criticizing anybody else.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:27 pmJay B, if you believe Jackies #11 comment, you are NOT a liberal and never were.
She’s spouting Religious Reich bullshit.
Don’t lie, Jay B. You’re a Republicrook and you love torture and treason.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:29 pmThe left is historically anti-Israel and the posts here and merely a reflection of that well known history.
the left may be historically anti-zionist, but, the left has not been historically anti-israel at all.
progressives ought to be against occupation, oppression, and death through imperialism and corporate greed, no? or, do you, as with several others take the track of not wanting to harm the deep-pockets of the pro-israeli AND pro-zionist special interest groups? if the latter, then, i suggest to you that this site is just for you! this site has not taken anything even close to an anti-israeli stand. thankfully, several of the posters–before they are banned, that is–have spoken with a strong voice against the murder and oppression of the state of israel, regardless of the consequences to special interest groups.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:30 pm#13 Hezbollah knows what it is doing when it hides behind civilians. It knows it puts Israel in a no win scenario. If they don’t fight back, the terrorism continues, and Iran and Syria keep arming them with more and more powerful weapons to kill Israelis with. If they do fight back, there is no way to do so without there being innocent civilians killed since Hezbollah places themselves in the middle of them intentionally, and people like those on this website will go nuts, falling right into the PR trap.
There is a reason Israel warns people to leave areas before they bomb. And there is a reason Hezbollah fires rockets intentionally at civilian targets hoping to kill innocents.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:31 pmWell, he’s right, there’s a strong kneejerk anti-American vibe to many liberals, at least in certain respects. Just as there’s a strong kneejerk jingoistic anti-multicultural vibe to many conservatives. Like #6 said, I’m a liberal too, but let’s open our eyes and be honest about what we read and say.
With Israel, I think a lot of it is the natural reaction to the status quo support of Israel by the US, regardless of what they do. While Israel is clearly the most palatable of the Middle Eastern countries governmentally and culturally, it has some major MAJOR issues that we too often overlook.
During the runup to the current conflict, for example, Israel had been bombing the living crap out of Beruit, and had effectively blown up the entire Beruit airport. Hezbollah fired a couple rockets into Israel, at which point the Israeli PM declared that it was a “major escalatation”, which I found laughable. A couple rockets is an escalation, when you’ve been doing major bombing runs for a day and destroyed the airport of the capital of Lebanon? Please.
Regardless, there’s more truth to what Giuliani says that most of us would like to admit. How many times do we default to giving our troops the benefit of the doubt, for example? Virtually never.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:31 pm#14
Are you 15 years old? Calling people who disagree with you names and accusing them of being of the other party. Please.
I don’t know Jackie at all. All I know is she wrote a post basically saying Jews are all about money and that’s it. That isn’t religious right at all, that’s the extreme left. The far right has been crazy in its support of Israel.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:33 pmIran and Syria keep arming them with more and more powerful weapons to kill Israelis with
and, this is based on??????????
if the resistance fighters have ‘more powerful’ weapons, they sure are not using any/many of them, are they. you spew standard olmert propoganda so that you can justify killing lebanese children. have you no shame?
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:33 pmand fashion is everything rudi baby, too look good is better than to feel good, you wonderful good fellow you. when youse run for pres you gotti remember where yer home is.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:35 pmLet me see if i get this Straight: The Adulterer talks to loofah Lover about “Liberals”??
Nuts.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:35 pmhe forgot anti-idiot… libs are anti-idots.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:35 pmTell us what is “FASHIONABLE”, Rudy, you sycophantic, philandering, narcissistic A-HOLE…..
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:35 pmDeo in Madrid
Keep talking Rudy. Those who didn’t already know you were a freak, will finally wake up.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:36 pmhey, jay b, you are not a liberal, you are just a troll… her comment articulated the situation quite well. trolls never take what someone has said and dissect it and form a coherent counter-argument, do they?
nice try, jay b… next.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:37 pm#19
You are joking, right? It’s not a debated issue that all the weapons Hezbollah has (and training) come mostly from Iran and Syria. For example the Chinese made, Iranian built C-802 missile that almost destroyed the Israeli warship.
These are kids throwing rocks, that is a major advanced weapon.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:40 pm#25
Lame. I don’t need to justify myself to you just because you disagree with me on one issue. I’ve voted Democrat in every election I’ve ever voted in, and worked for several Dem elected officials.
You are saying her take that Jews are all about money “articulated the situation quite well”. Wow! That really says alot about you and this board.
Hilarious that you are trying to defend our community from claims its anti-Israel by spewing anti-Semitic tripe about Jews wanting nothing but money.
Grow up.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:42 pm#18
Jay you do seem to be somewhat of a plant, no disrepect.
The point is that right continues to label people Anti-US just because they disagree with the current administration. They also call people Anti-Israel just because they dare to question how Israel is conducting the current situation.
Disagreemenat does not make you a traitor or anti-semitic.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:43 pmJews are the “chosen ones”. Somebody please explain that to me. I thought we were all children of “God”.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:43 pm#18
Trust me, I wouldn’t be reading Thinkprogress all day every day if I was a “plant”. I can’t read a conservative website for more than 2 seconds without getting ill, and I’d imagine a conservative would feel the same way here.
I just rarely post because I agree with 99.9% of everything I read here.
But this anti-Israel, Hezbollah defense thing drove me nuts to the point of finally posting. It has always embarassed me about our community.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:46 pmjay the troll:
words tend to mean something. the phrase:
Iran and Syria keep arming them with more and more powerful weapons to kill Israelis with
is baseless. what evidence is there that arms are being supplied by those two countries that are now, today, any more powerful??
knowing that trolls do not read too well, i would only suggest that you google the terms ‘anti-israel’, ‘anti-zionism’, and ‘anti-semetic’… if you were to call me the latter to my face, i would treat you the way rudy used to treat african-american prisoners in his jail, and make you cry for more, you silly ignorant twat…
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:50 pm#30
You’re embarrassed to be a member of a comunity that allows decent and disagreement? That sounds pretty wingnutty to me.
I know that’s not exactly what you said but its certainly infered.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:50 pm#31
You are kidding around with us, right? Are you seriously the only one who didn’t know Iran and Syria are the ones behind Hezbollah, both militarily and financially?
I mentioned the C-802 missile. That is an incredibly powerful GUIDED MISSILE. We are beyond terrorists with rocks and guns – that is a major military item. I see you ignored that.
Just go read any article at all on this topic. Where did you think Hezbollah’s longer range missiles came from?
Here is one to get you started until you start watching the news:
I can’t believe people here are seriously arguing that:
1) Jews want nothing but money
2) Iran and Syria are not supplying Hezbollah with weapons.
It’s like you are the plant, trying to embarrass liberals by making it look like we are all clueless.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:57 pmBut this anti-Israel, Hezbollah defense thing drove me nuts to the point of finally posting. It has always embarassed me about our community.
assuming you are this great liberal/progressive mind, can you enlighten us silly dullards why we ought to be against the occupation and the oppression of iraqi citizens and afghanis by the american imperialist and corporatist machines, yet, not find it equally despicable when israel does the same thing in lebanon, syria, and to the palestinians for fifty years?
please, oh great mind, tell us why progressives should be knee-jerk olmert supporters on the one hand, and continue to find bush offensive???? or, perhaps you are not against bush’s oppression?
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:58 pmLike a typical Republican tool, Rudi cannot grasp the distinction between anti-administration and anti-American.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:00 pm#32
Not only is that not exactly what I said, its not even remotely what I said.
I’m not embarrassed that we have free debates here. I’m embarrassed that 95% of those free debates involve people defending terrorists, slamming our only ally in the region, claiming Iran doesn’t give weapons to Hezbollah, and claiming Jews care about nothing but money. That’s what embarrasses me.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:00 pmI’m still waiting on someone to explain why Jews are the “chose ones”. I KNOW one of you keyboard intellectuals has an answer.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:00 pmi know it is fun for you people to just make stuff up and misquote, but this is what i said:
the phrase ‘more powerful’ implies that the munitions coming from syria and iran are increasing if not in number than intensity. read troll!
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:01 pmDoes anyone realize that EVERY rocket that Hezbollah fires at an Israeli city is a terrorist attack? Unguided rockets firing on CIVILIAN targets with the sole purpose of killing civilians is a terrorist attack.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:02 pmJay B. I think you either mixed up my post(#25) with someone else’s or owe me an apology.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:03 pm#34
Iraq didn’t attack us. Hezbollah did attack Israel, and has been doing so through terrorism for decades.
Israel left the land and the UN verified the pullout in 2000. The terrorism continued anyway, even though Hezbollah claimed that issue was why they were terrorists. Hezbollah publicly admits they don’t recognize Israel and their goal is to drive the Jewish state into the sea.
Had Iraq been attacking the U.S. with terrorism for years and years and we finally hit back, then the situations would be more analogous.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:03 pmokay. it is a terrorist attack…. and what?
i will ask you a question now:
did you read that Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said a third of the casualties in the 23-day-old conflict were children under 12.
how would you characterize the elite, exact, careful, humanitarians of the olmert crime family MISSING so many big old nasty men with beards?
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:06 pmJay
95%? Can you back that up with facts?
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:08 pm#38
For the third time, the C-802 missile is a classic example. Hezbollah did not used to have weapons like that. But they do now, and Iran built it and gave it to them. That is a more powerful weapon Hezbollah has now that they did not have before. I don’t know how to make this any more simple. Iran is giving terrorists guided anti-ship missiles.
#39
Criticizing Hezbollah is a good way to make yourself unpopular here – I’d be careful.
#40
Huh? Unless you post under multiple handles, #40 is the first post under Ho Chi Mihn. Explain, I’m not sure what you meant.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:08 pm#43
I assume you are talking about the post from way back about the tenor of this board?
If you want to calculate every post on this issue, and have 4 hours to do so, knock yourself out.
Just read this board right now though – its all the proof you need.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:10 pmIraq didn’t attack us.
your right-wingers need to get the story straight. iraq was stirring at our gates! moments away from nuking us! they had ties to 9/11. osama had a cold once and ended up in an iraqi hospital! zarqawi had a townhouse in fallujah!
oh, but, now we hear: iraq didn’t attack us and so it is different.
oh, and by the way, hezzbollah did not attack israel. the two soldiers that were captured–oh, by the way, why are israeli soldiers ‘kidnapped’ while every other soldier since kenghis khan has been ‘captured’–while they were patrolling southern lebanon, in violation of lebanaon’s soverignty. or, are you saying that israel has not been patrolling southern lebanon for the past six to ten years???
it must be fascinating being a right-wing troll….you never have to think, just speak, like a little colorful parrot!
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:11 pmI intend to vote for Rudy Guiliani for president. He understands we are in a war on terror and takes that seriouisly. Many liberals don’t get it. Many Democrats try to forget that 9/11 even happened.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:12 pmJay jay jay said, “your right-wingers need to get the story straight. iraq was stirring at our gates! moments away from nuking us! they had ties to 9/11.”
Don’t forget that Democrats were saying those types of things as well. Edwards, Hillary, Kerry, Biden etc. all said similar things about Iraq.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:14 pm#46
Right-wingers may well try to argue that. I don’t, and most progressives like myself don’t. The fact you assume that anyone who is anti-Hezbollah terrorism must be a Republican is kind of sad, and kind of proves what Guiliani had been arguing.
Your comment that Israel wasn’t attacked says it all. It’s as if you totally ignored that 3 Israeli soliders were KILLED during that raid, and 5 more killed in an immediate effort to save the 2 captured soldiers. But never mind that, I’m sure the U.S. would be fine with Mexico capturing and killing our citizens and firing rockets into San Diego, right? The fact you didn’t know that is kind of telling. Just like your confusion on the C-802 missile.
The irony is if anyone is a parrot, its you – spouting the same old leftist talking points as everyone else here, getting angry at anyone who dares take a different position.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:16 pmIran and Syria keep arming them with more and more powerful weapons to kill Israelis with
that sentence is pure, un-adultered, olmert-propogandized, bullsiht! if you are so disingenous to admit that the phrase implies that the arms are flowing into lebanon with increasing intensity, you are dumber than even i thought.
your exagerration about the number and the tenor of the posts to which you claim to disagree–as a liberal/progressive–are sickening.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:17 pmJay it was post 36 so it wasn’t all that far back.
I don’t see 95% of these people defending terrorists. Most of us question the strength of the Israeli response and all the dead civilians. It seems like you’ve drunk the right wing koolaid and believe everything you see on Faux news.
Let it go Jay, you’re not winning any converts
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:17 pmWell, I guess I’ll never find out why Jews are the “chosen ones”. I guess people ignore questions that have no “logical” answers.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:18 pm#50
OK, this is getting sad. It’s like you want to remain ignorant. Do a quick google search on that C-802 missile. Or go to the link I sent. This isn’t “Olmert propaganda”. It’s a fact that apparently everyone knows but you. Iran built and supplied this weapon. Iran supplies Hezbollah with much of its weapons. The weapons are getting more powerful – it used to be guns and now its guided-missiles!
What is so hard for you to understand about this? You can’t really be the only one that didn’t know Iran supplies Hezbollah with weapons and that those weapons are more powerful than they used to be. Unless you are telling me they had C-802 missiles before?!
#51
Wow – what a surprise. There you are, claiming anyone who disagrees with you parroting the far-left position listens to Fox, votes Republican, loves George Bush, you name it. Sad, but predictable.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:22 pmJay B. my first post on this thread was @ 6:36 p.m.(25). You posted #28 @ 6:42 and I quote
Lame
So there was either a mix-up on that response by you or maybe another one was deleted or if it WAS meant for me you owe me an apology because I NEVER said thata about Jews and money.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:24 pm#52
It’s a question beyond anyone here.
Why do many Christians feel people who don’t believe in Jesus are going to hell?
Why do many Muslims believe all other religions are infidels?
Why do many Jews believe they are the chosen people?
What you are asking in effect is why does every religion seem to view itself as the “true” religion. I’m not surprised nobody has a good answer.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:24 pmJay, not just anyone who disagrees with me. Its the fact that you are willing to site made up statistics like 95% of the posters on this site defend terrorists.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:25 pm#52
Here is a good article on how most religions seem to feel they are “chosen”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people#Christianity
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:25 pmJay I would say the answer to your questions in Post #55 would be 95%
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:26 pmoh, jay b., it won’t matter in an hour or so…think progress will trim out all the non-pro-israeli posts and you will come out smelling like a rose! i don’t know what site you are visiting that is anti-israel, but, i would suggest it is not this one. you are right on with the think progress line on this one…
about the c802: i was commenting on the sly trick the original poster was using by implying that iran and syria have a constant flow of more and more powerful weapons. that is not true, and, your saying it over and over again does not make it so.
i do not believe a word, not ONE word of anything that the olmert propoganda machine puts out. i did not ignore the claim, i simply do not find it part of reality–it is all just an israeli lie. these SOLDIERS were captured in lebanon and i don’t believe anything about an alleged ‘raid’.
the everyone else you talk about is ironically probably me! i am banned so i have to make up different log ins! i wish their was a consensus opinion that agreed with my view! i think you are mistaken and the good folks on this thread and on this site, generally, are closer to you than to me.
peace, oh my ignorant brother :)
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:26 pm#54
Post #25 seemed to be saying Jackie’s comment (#11) “articulated the situation quite well”. Her comment basically said Jews were all about money. I apologize if you were not, in actuality, defending her racist/anti-semitic remarks.
#56
Are you for real? I was not claiming I did a scientific study of ever post. I was using hyperbole to explain the tenor of this board. Of course if you did count it, you probably would be pretty close (excluding my posts)
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:28 pmjay b.,
i know that guided missles do not grow on trees and that this poor group of militants is getting support from countries that support their philosophy, and that these are almost certainly iran and syria.
i am merely suggesting to you that the phrase ‘more and more powerful’ implies that the arming is continuing at an increasingly more powerful rate and intensity, and, i don’t think that is the case. if it were, i think the brave hezzbollah would have fired these more powerful weapons into tel aviv by now. that is all i am saying.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:29 pm#61
I meant that in the macro sense, not in the hourly sense. Israel bombing the bridges connecting Lebanon to Syria dried up alot of the immediate weapon support. I was saying Israel was reacting to the terrorists getting more and more powerful weapons as time went on, not that it was happening every 5 hours today.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:32 pmJay don’t back away from your 95% comment. You stated it like it was fact not hyperbole. This is a tactic that is used by the rightwing all the time, that is why I figured you liked Faux news.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:33 pmjay b.,
i am not mincing it that far–hourly. but, i really honestly don’t think that their has been any ‘re-loading’ of even equally powerful weapons in, say, the past month, let alone ‘more powerful’ ones.
and, i think the original poster, whoever it was, was impling that it was increasingly growing more urgent because of this increasing of ‘more and more powerful’ weapons. that is all.
i find it interesting to dissect the right’s methodology of lying about the facts with their words…
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:36 pm#63
You have to be kidding. Have you never heard of the concept of hyperbole? Would you have felt better if I had said “it seems like 95%” – would that have quelled your confusion on this issue?
Did you seriously think I was saying “I did an exhuastive calculation of every Lebabon related post on this website and determined the exact percentages”. No, so stop pretending you did. (or if you really did – you have your own issues to deal with)
So stop with this canard of an issue already. I see why you need to move the debate off the substantive, but please.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:38 pmJay it would have made all the difference if you had said “It seems like”.
Apologize for saying 95% of defend the terrorists and I’ll let it go.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:39 pm#64
The right may well do that.
People on the left, like myself, like to use facts. Which is why I cited the exact missile and linked you an article about it.
I think the problem was your confusion in thinking I was talking about hourly reloading instead of what I was actually talking about – the macro problem of the terrorists getting more and more powerful weapons over time – and getting them from Iran and Syria,
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:39 pmNo Rudy…we’re just anti-Stupid.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:42 pmthe substance of the issue–the original post about rudy–is that liberals are anti-isreal. keeping in mind the fine distinctions between anti- israel/zionism/semetic, it is clear to me that–knowing rudy’s history of suckling at the teat of israel and vice versa, for decades–rudy wants us to hear
LIBERALS ARE ANTI-SEMETIC
and, he knows that everyone is so nervous about offending israel in any way, that most of the world will read it that way.
rudy is trying to garner support for israel by suggesting that to not do so is anti-semetic. since no one wants to be anti-semetic, the trick works and has worked for SIXTY YEARS.
so, jay b., the substance of the original post is not awfully significant or relevant or unique or newsworthy.
can we agree with that?????
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:43 pmJay B,
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:45 pmIt has been explained several time over the past few weeks that liberals are not anti-Israel, they are anti-Zionist. Some of us are anti-slaughter of the Lebanese, we don’t feel that our tax dollars should support the bombs and armorment to kill civilians. That also is not anti-Israel. The Israelis, Lebanese and Palestinians all need a safe homeland and Arab need to be treated as equals to the Israelis. That is not anti-American nor anti-Israel.
If it’s fashionable for liberals to be anti-american and anti Israel,
then it’s fashionable for conservatives to be fascists and Israel apologists.
It’s only fair if that hack Guliani is going to make those kinds of sweeping generalizations. He makes this New Yorker want to puke.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:46 pmWhen the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts are against you, argue the law. And when both the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and call the other side names.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:51 pmwell, jay b., i have to watch ‘countdown’..
that will give judd enough time to delete all the posts that he disagrees with…i think you will be quite happy with his edits, and, i hope it re-instills in you the confidence to return to the site and hear pro-israeli, blinkered, non-statements about lebanon, and all the other aipac-approved comments that certain liberals seem to appreciate.
peace,
james
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:51 pmDavid B #70
That is too complicated of a thought for many right wing supporters. You have to break EVERYTHING down into good and evil because thats the only way they think. With us or against us, black or white, if you don’t like it here you should move to another country, yer going to hell and I’m going to heaven, no shades of gray, just simplistic emotional kneejerk judgement.
August 3rd, 2006 at 7:51 pmRudy,
You might want to pay attention to what’s happening round here:
Lieberman Trails Lamont by 13 Points in Connecticut, Poll Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aRamraPu7ZFE&refer=us
Feel that Rude-y? It’s the winds of change…
August 3rd, 2006 at 8:02 pm#47 — and many conservatives forget why it happened. They forget that our government’s charitable donations of $2,200,000,000+ of our tax dollars in military goods and services to Israel per year –which is it currently using to undermine fledgling democracies (unstable as they may be), civilian casualties be damned — is just a repeat of 1982 when Israel was bombing apartment buildings and inspired a then-young future-terrorist named Osama Bin Laden to attack the USA some 19 years later.
Cause. Twenty years of festering grudge while violent plans, scattered finances, and angry people congeal like gangrene in a wound. Effect. “Hating freedom” has exactly nothing to do with what put the United States on the firing line.
August 3rd, 2006 at 8:07 pmDoes this country really want to go from a complete idiot to an idiot with a lisp? Unreal
August 3rd, 2006 at 8:20 pmThat’s right – Jesus was a Liberal persecuted by Conservatives. Guess Rudy would have helped nail Jesus to the cross.
Being anti-American is so in vogue with conservatives like Rudy, Rush, traitor Rove, darth Cheney, Ricky the Rooster Sanitorium, Frat brat “W” and let’s not forget to include O’Lielly.
August 3rd, 2006 at 8:41 pmFollowing the “jews are god’s chosen people” logic, the rest of us are what? God’s unchosen people? That would mean that Rudy, frat boy “W”, darth Cheney, traitor Rove, O’Lielly and Ricky the Rooster Sanitorium are all gods unchosen people. Or did Jesus change that rule?
August 3rd, 2006 at 8:58 pmOooh, rudy havin’ a hissy fit? Perhaps he can find solace with his pals, Ralph Reed & bernie Kerik…what a scumsucker.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:00 pmmemo to room: There is no god. jesus is a myth
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:01 pmShut it, Rudy.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:08 pmI still think the Christian Theme Park in Isreal sounds cool, nevermind the explosions.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:09 pmFor Truth,
The explosions just add to all the fun!
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:17 pm[...] to be anti-American, anti-Israel.” — Rudy Giuliani, America’s mayor. Source: “It’s sort of the fashionable liberal view - Think [Feed] [...]
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:18 pmSo Rudy is pandering to the right wing. Nothing new there. The surprise would have been if he would have said something else. Same thing for McCain. Once the presidential bug bites, it is all over. They all sound like Pat Robertson.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:27 pmI had almost forgotten all about Giuliani. And so now he wants to annoint himself as the righteous and wrap himself and the Republicans in the flag and think that’s all that he needs to do. It may have worked in 2004. I just hope that enough people have been fooled once already and will not be fooled twice. The second obstacle Rudy will have to get enough of the base motivated to overcome all the negatives of this presidential term.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:30 pmIf anything, isreal has harmed US interests by their recent incursions. It would seem that a large portion of the anti-western forces in the ME (particularly in iraq and afghanastan) are helped by the actions of isreal. Declared war crimes by Human Rights Watch and AmnestyInternational. For more info see: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0803-02.htm What it boils down to is that we are spending an incredible amount of money and prestige to support a foriegn nation that will act outside of our interests. I don’t ever remember voting to support isreal no matter what.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:44 pmI’d rather be on the moral side of an issue. Apparently morality is “anti-American”. It seems that you need to support bloodthirsty killing to be a “patriotic American”. How did America go so wrong?
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:51 pmScrew his speech impedament ass.
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:02 pm71: My sentiments exactly. Well said!
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:02 pmI meant 70
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:03 pmI’m a Democrat, and can’t stand most Republican politicians, but Rudy is right on this one. I’m amazed at how most news media seems like it wants to give equal weight to both sides in this War, as if it is “Tastes Great” vs. “Less Filling”. These Hezbollah terrorists are animals – they killed 240+ of our Marines for godsakes. They’re terrorist garbage. Screw them. I hope Israel buries them.
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:24 pmAs a liberal Jew, I have a few thoughts on this. First of all, the day that I need an arrogant Christian conservative to tell me how to be a good Jew is the day I become a Muslim.
Secondly, I don’t take Rudy’s comments too seriously because I don’t think he believes them himself. Let’s be honest here. Rudy is running in 2008 and is trying to bolster his conservative credentials with the GOP base by attacking liberals. He knew a comment like this would earn him praise from the wackos in places like FreeRepublic.com and RedState.com, where he is typically viewed with scepticism because of his liberal social views and personal life. That is why he made this comment on O’Lielly’s show. The only people who still watch that BS are right-wing cultists anyway, so they are naturally inclined to distrust Rudy.
But intentionally or not, he did raise a more important point. Like many issues in this country, the Israeli issue has been reduced to simplistic black-and-white, pro-and-anti labels for the dimwitted among us. If you are not for Israel bombing civilians, then you must be for Hezbollah. If you support the Palestinians’ right to return, then you must be an anti-Semite. If only the world were that simple. I actually supported Israel’s actions against Hezbollah when they started a few weeks ago, but I am sickened by how far they have taken it in bombing Lebanon’s civilian infrastructure. Political partisanship seems somewhat petulant and childish when you are watching dismembered, charred babies smoldering in the remains of a hospital.
The bottom line is, there is no “pro” or “anti” here. Sure, there are true anti-Semites among us. Several members of my family who died in the gas chambers of Bergen-Belsen are testament to true anti-Semitism. Trust me, mainstream liberals are not even in that league, although I know of many Republicans who sympathize with Hitler’s motives.
One more thing. If liberals are anti-Semitic, then how come over 70% of us Jews consistently vote Democratic? Are Republicans accusing us of being stupid? And if so, wouldn’t that be… oh, I don’t know… anti-Semitic?
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:34 pmLiberals tend to go more on emotion than logic. Liberals tend to rally behind a cause. Liberals tend to need find a group to belong to and feel a communion with. Liberals engage in a lot of group think. People tend to get more conservative as they get older, because they gain life experience and education, while seeing what happens to their tax dollars. There is a generality that “If one is under 25 and a conservative, one has no heart. If one is over 25 and a liberal, one has no brain.”
Generalities exist for a reason. There are always exceptions, but whenever you see somebody call the GOP fascists or neocons, or call the war in Iraq “illegal” or based on “lies,” you know the generality applies.
Bill Clinton might be an exception. After all, he warned the liberals not to “underestimate” George Bush. Most of you clearly have.
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:38 pmGiuliani is a dirty GOP thug, so who cares what crap that fool spews!
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:40 pmIt’s ironic that within a few years of impeaching a man for sexual misconduct, some people who advocated that are now ready to elect a known philanderer and adulterer to be president.
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:48 pmIt’s sort of like Newt Gingrich being an advocate of family values.
I see that Jay B. was in here and other screen Jays attacking him back > glad I was not mixed into the whole mash earlier > lol.
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:49 pmYou mean like Barbara Striesand, Jon Stewert, and Jerry Seinfeld?
August 3rd, 2006 at 11:21 pmIf Israel was not a based on a racist and religiously biggoted ideology like Zionism there wouldnt be much for the left to bitch about. Jews in general tend to be liberal… just like Americans. However there are the “zionist” types in Israel and America that mess life up for the rest of us. Anti-Assholes more describes the left. If you dont act like a racist or facist and you are not a leader that is a total dumbass or evil… well the left is not going to go totally nutz over you. But Israel does NOT pass this test. Their actions and their history puts them in the position they are and rightfully so. They can change any day of their choosing. They simply choose to rub the arabs face in the dirt decade after decade and act surprised when the arabs predictably perform their equal and opposite reaction.
Want the liberals to support you? Lay out logic that is not based on greed or ego but cold hard facts …and that is pretty hard to argue against.
August 3rd, 2006 at 11:53 pmWhen it comes down to it, it’s not a viewpoint that’s anti-US nor anti-Israel, but anti-asshole. Israel’s government and policies are dominated by assholes, and I’m sorry to say, so are ours. There’s nothing incongrous about being pro-America, yet staunchly anti-asshole.
August 4th, 2006 at 12:21 amAnti-Assholes more describes the left
now *that* is one of the brightest thing said on this thread! succinct and accurate. thank you, gg!
great comment…
August 4th, 2006 at 12:27 amRemember all of those “non-emotional” and “logical” conservatives weeping and screaming and trying to give Terri Schiavo a slice of pizza.
What about the “non-emotional” appeal of Senator John Cornyn(R-Cornhole) who said “civil rights don’t matter when you are dead.”
Remember when Senator Rick Santorum(R-Cheesebag) “non-emotionally” dressed up his little still born child and posed for pictures with it?
-GSD
August 4th, 2006 at 12:42 amI’m anti-Bush administration, anti-Bush Republican, and anti-war. But that does not make me anti-American or anti-Israel. It just makes me more concerned about humanity than about oil, money, and obsessive greediness, especially in the name of God.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:02 amRudy, that ‘Paragon’ of Republican values, and the embodiment of Rightwing ‘morality,’ pontificating from his ‘Podium of Purity’. He remembers well how it felt to go from ’scandal central’ to the most ‘fashionable’ ‘Leader in a Crisis’ EVER! But just to show that he is capable of errors of judgment, and doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does, he is the one who recommended Bernard Kerik to head DHS. Remember how ‘well’ that went? And it can also be argued that Rudy is doing the currently fashionable ‘Republican’ thing, bashing liberals, calling them ‘anti-American’, and ‘anti-Israel’. I guess it all depends on your ‘perspective’.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:08 amSince when did it become anti-American to question Israeli foreign policy?
Just because they are our ally doesn’t mean we have to kiss their ass. Freedom fries anyone?
August 4th, 2006 at 1:22 amI’m sorry, but I just don’t see the Republican base voting for Giuliani in 08. Sure, he has the 9/11 thing going for him, but just wait until fundies like George Allen and Sam Brownback start attacking him for his liberal social views. I mean, damn, he wants to treat gay people like… gasp… human beings! And he believes a woman should have control over her own body! Next thing, he’ll be saying that women have souls and that the world is more than 8,000 years old!!!! What do you mean he believes those things??? Yikes! He doesn’t believe we should regress to the fourteenth century! Traitor!
McCain will be a more palatable option to Republicans, even though he is equally distrusted by the base. My gut tells me that McCain and Giuliani will cancel each other out, allowing a lunatic Bush clone like Brownback to get the nomination by default.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:28 amJay:
I hope you read the posts by shaggy6 and Inkadinkadont. Those are much more the mainstream of liberal thought. Jackie doesn’t represent liberalism. Far from it.
You said:
“Right-wingers may well try to argue that. I don’t, and most progressives like myself don’t. The fact you assume that anyone who is anti-Hezbollah terrorism must be a Republican is kind of sad, and kind of proves what Guiliani had been arguing.”
This liberal doesn’t automatically assume that someone anti-Hezbollah is Rebublican. Unfortunately, some people on the left don’t read posts particularly well. This is also true on the right, and I submit is more true on the right.
You also said:
“Your comment that Israel wasn’t attacked says it all. It’s as if you totally ignored that 3 Israeli soliders were KILLED during that raid, and 5 more killed in an immediate effort to save the 2 captured soldiers. But never mind that, I’m sure the U.S. would be fine with Mexico capturing and killing our citizens and firing rockets into San Diego, right? The fact you didn’t know that is kind of telling. Just like your confusion on the C-802 missile.”
First, you’re hung up on this particular missile. You’re focusing on one tree when there is a whole forest of issues to be concerned with.
And it’s as if YOU are ignoring the 600+ deaths of Lebanese, many of them children. Your posts so far imply that you think that those deaths are unworthy of consideration. Is that really what you want to imply?
More than 10 times the number of Lebanese have died as the number of Israelis. Are Israelis more important than Lebanese? And please don’t give me the excuse that Israel is avoiding hitting civilians and the deaths are accidental but the Hezbollah are deliberately targetting civilians in Israel. The numbers of deaths belie this. And in any case, the dead are dead regardless of intentions, and discerning intentions across several thousands of miles from people with whom you have no acquaintance, is ludicrous.
I am not anti- or pro-Israel, or anti- or pro-Hezbollah. What I am is pro-humans, ALL humans. All these deaths, both Israeli and Lebanese, and Iraqi and American, etc., are to be mourned.
In this particular situation, Israel has made a disproportionate response and it is reaping the whirlwind.
But in the history of the Middle East since Israel displaced Palestinians, there has been a lot of violence and death. ALL sides have death on their hands. NO side can claim the moral high ground. And ALL sides have legitimate grievances.
Also, if you believe that anti-Semitism has historically been a leftist phenomenon, you are either very young or very ignorant of history. Most anti-Semitism comes from the right historically in this country. It’s only since the right wing was basically taken over by fundamentalist Christians that the right has become rabidly pro-Israel. And it’s not that they are truly pro Jewish people. It’s because they take Revelation literally and the Rapture can’t come until Israel has the borders it supposedly had in some mythical Biblical time. Then Jesus is supposed to return, and the Jews are supposed to convert or be damned to everlasting Hell, along with anyone else who isn’t a Christian. And I suspect that I, as an Episcopalian, is damned also according to their eschatology. You seem like an intelligent person. Surely you know this.
We DON’T condemn Israelis per se or Jewish people. We DO condemn Israel’s overreaction and the consequent loss of many innocent lives in this particular situation. Try to understand the difference.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:49 amHow scary is that statement? Sounds like what McCarthy was saying in the 1950’s to try and destory good Americans. Read the quote and think of McCarthy.
“It’s sort of the fashionable liberal view to be anti-American…”
America needs to stand up for itself. Where is the Edward R. Murrows of today?
August 4th, 2006 at 2:46 amGiuliani is a mental pig. Other than that he’s just your average republican megalomaniac – it was sickening having him as mayor of NYC.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:26 am.
This is the “Remember boys and girls we are a Republic not a Democracy” meme. Just because the people believe one thing the leaders know what’s best. Arrogant at the least, but pandering candidates will say what they need to.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:07 amGiuliani is another Israeli-firster. America be-damned he is saying
August 4th, 2006 at 4:22 amI am Aunty gulliani. Since the Hebrew speaking people have been so persecuted throughout history, don’t you think there might be some reason for this? That maybe they are not good friends or neighbors the reason they had been driven out? Just maybe the insight of the persecuters had some basis reality? What do you think, they just said “Oh, you’re jewish you can’t live here” without some form of instigation by the persecuted? I do, the Hebrew speakers have been notoiously aggressive and greedy so who would want to be around them? The UN gave them a chunk of Palestine to call their own and now those 5,000,000 want more.
August 4th, 2006 at 7:44 amThis piece of garbage was the most happiest person that 9/11 happened since he was hated in NY before it happened. Scumbag, another 2 face who will get his sooner or later.
August 4th, 2006 at 7:55 amThe only thing I need Rudy for is to hire some corrupt officials to head Homeland security, you know so he can use hotel rooms set aside for 9/11 rescue workers where he can bring his whores in.
August 4th, 2006 at 8:34 am#47…Liberals forgot that 9/11 ever happened? Maybe you’ve forgotten that the perpetrator of 9/11 is still out there, and that the president hasn’t even mentioned him since he said, “I don’t know where he is. Honestly, I don’t think about him that much.”
August 4th, 2006 at 9:20 amI think conservatives perceive liberals’ criticising of current American practices as anti-American. As a liberal, I feel no dissonance in criticising the government and its policies and claiming to be a proud patriot. On the contrary, it’s because I believe so fervently in America’s limitless capabilities that I want her to do so much more than now. Maybe that’s why some people thought “Together, we can do better” was a good slogan. It’s not, but it does accurately reflect my POV.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:24 amAnti-U.S. government is not anti-America. Anti-Israeli government is not anti-Israel. Only a politician would be arrogant enough to assume that an attack on his administration is an attack on his citizenry.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:50 amEverytime this adulterous, taser promotin’, fear mongering, profiteer opens his fascist mouth, he should be asked about the MILLIONS he made through Giuliani Partners and with crooked Bernie Kerik by cashing in on 9/11.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:53 amGiuliani proves once again that he is an offensive little twerp.
August 4th, 2006 at 10:07 amAnti-Israeli for sure.
August 4th, 2006 at 10:13 amAll the peole who don’t vote don’t support Israel either.
His tinfoil hat is on too tight.
August 4th, 2006 at 10:22 am#107 Wolfdaughter, great post. Thank you for adding it here……10 farm workers killed this morning by Israel while transporting food……
.Does the reich wing forget who is supplying the airplanes, tanks, bombs and bullets for the Israel genocide being waged against Lebanon.? When you make out your tax returns do you ever think where all your money is going.? Incase you have forgotten by his own words ” I am a war time president” .. I will give you the answers here. Your money is going to pay huge intrest payments on the foreign money this bunch borrowed to fund bull shit bush’s war’s,and to cover the huge tax breaks for the extremely rich…One madman’s folly is the killing off of entire groups of people. Our service men and women, (2585) to date, over 100,000 Iraq’s, 1,500 from Katrina, 3000 from 9/11 now 700 in Lebanon..Bush has been responsible either directly or by intended neglect……..Hell of a legacy. The worst president in the history of america and still 2 years to go unless we can boot this bunch out after 2006………Blessings, the world needs them now..Peace, demand it..
August 4th, 2006 at 10:33 am#95
“…There is a generality that “If one is under 25 and a conservative, one has no heart. If one is over 25 and a liberal, one has no brain.â€
There’s another generality not quoted often enough: “Not all conservative people are stupid, but all stupid people are copservative.”
August 4th, 2006 at 11:22 amDarn. That was supposed to be “conservative”, without a p. How conservative of me.
August 4th, 2006 at 11:24 amAnyone who takes fashion tips from Guiliani, raise your hand.
August 4th, 2006 at 11:32 amGiuliani is an un-american jerk, supporting the needs of a foreign nation over that of his homeland
August 4th, 2006 at 12:13 pmRudy will prove to be a huge asset for the GOP. Being a NYer, he understands the hate and the rage of the left and isn’t afraid to point it out.
And he’s right – you people are un-American and you HATE Isreal. You’re pigs and should be destroyed politically.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:00 pmGigiloiani, it’s called antiwar, asshole. Get it straight.
It’s called being anti-”whoever wages offensive or pre-emptive war.” If that’s America or Israel, so be it.
Fighting terrorism does not mean bombing entire countries into the stone age and invading and occupying them.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:48 pmYou mean that Paris Hilton, the Fashion Queen of the moment, is anti-America and anti-Israel?
August 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pm#126: Rudy will prove to be a huge asset for the GOP.
Why do you hate America so much?
And do you even know what a “fascist” is?
August 4th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#129,
August 4th, 2006 at 5:44 pmBring on Rudy, this light weight couldn’t even take on Hilary, an outsider, for the NY senate seat. He’s done nothing of importance recently except live off his 9/11 fame. Bring him on, he’ll be crushed.
Swallow, Rudi, then suck another one.
August 4th, 2006 at 7:10 pm“It’s sort of the fashionable liberal view to be anti-American, anti-Israel.â€
— Rudy Giuliani, America’s mayor
================================
This inane comment was made by someone desperate who can’t get the republican presidential nomination because of his liberal views. He did the same thing when he was running for mayor. During the 1989 campaign he claimed he was anti-choice and he lost the election. In the subsequent election in 1993 (knowing full well that he could not win the election without being pro-choice), he flip-flopped.
August 4th, 2006 at 8:02 pmWar is money for the arms dealers. That is why we are in an endless war. Also the US arms dealers have sweet deals with Israel. Remember folks, it all happens because the fatcats don’t have enough gravy.
August 4th, 2006 at 8:15 pmIt seems that Mr. Guiliani comes from the facist side of Italian culture and heritage. He knows best. It his view that must prevail. Think Mussolini. And I am of Italian descent.
August 5th, 2006 at 8:15 am#101
And anti-snob describes the right!
August 8th, 2006 at 12:09 pm[...] “It’s sort of the fashionable liberal view to be anti-American, anti-Israel.†— Rudy Giulian…. [...]
March 28th, 2007 at 10:57 am