Iraq’s New Freedom on Display: Hundreds of Thousands Chant ‘Death To America’
Iraq’s New Freedom on Display: Hundreds of Thousands Chant ‘Death To America’
Before the Iraq war, Bush officials repeatedly heralded the transformative effect that a liberated Iraq would have both for the U.S. and the Middle East:
BUSH: Acting against the danger will also contribute greatly to the long-term safety and stability of our world. … A liberated Iraq can show the power of freedom to transform this vital region by bringing hope and progress into the lives of millions. [2/26/03]
CHENEY: Should all [Saddam’s] ambitions be realized, the implications would be enormous for the Middle East, for the United States, and for the peace of the world. [8/26/02]
WOLFOWITZ: The stakes of building a peaceful, prosperous Iraq that treats its own people decently and is at peace with its neighbors, the stakes are enormous. … That kind of an Iraq, I think, could be a real force for peace and prosperity and progress throughout the Middle East. [12/4/02]
Your new Iraq:
Hundreds of thousands of Shiites chanting “Death to Israel” and “Death to America” marched through the streets of Baghdad’s biggest Shiite district Friday in a show of support for Hezbollah militants battling Israeli troops in Lebanon.
…
“Mahdi Army and Hezbollah are one. Let them confront us if they dare,” the predominantly male crowd shouted, waving the flags of Hezbollah, Lebanon and Iraq.
…
Protesters set fire to American and Israeli flags, as well as effigies of President Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, showing the men with Dracula teeth. “Saddam and Bush, Two Faces of One Coin” was scrawled on Bush’s effigy.
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Gee, that’s a funny way to welcome your “liberators”.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:16 pmSomehow I get the feeling that these people don’t like what Bush’s America is doing in their part of the world.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:16 pmWell, they just hate America!
August 4th, 2006 at 1:17 pm… but were there any rose pettals?
August 4th, 2006 at 1:17 pmAh, Democracy! Free speech!
Thank goodness we were able to offer these people the power to organize AGAINST US.
Or, maybe it WAS A HORRIBLE IDEA FROM THE GET-GO.
You cannot, and never will, FORCE people into a Democracy. But if you do, be prepared to get snake-bitten, as we now so clearly see.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:20 pmSales of american flags to go up in Iraq, and boxes of matches sales go up
August 4th, 2006 at 1:20 pmMission Accomplished
August 4th, 2006 at 1:21 pmOh boy get the troops out of Iraq starting tomorrow please!
August 4th, 2006 at 1:22 pmI dare any troll to name one thing this administration has improved though its term. The only word that comes to my mindfor Bush is FAILURE.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pm[…] Source: Iraq’s New Freedom on Display: Hundreds of Thousands Chant ‘Death To America’ - America [Feed] […]
August 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pmCaption Contest;
Hey,what about the flag desecration law ?
August 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pmIraq’s Shia in ‘million man march’
Shias from southern and central Iraq have begun travelling to Baghdad in answer to Muqtada al-Sadr’s call for a “million man march†in support of Lebanon’s Hezbollah.
Waving Iraqi flags and chanting “Death to America! Death to Israelâ€, the demonstrators mounted convoys of buses and headed for the capital on Thursday, some of them wearing white shrouds symbolising their readiness to accept martyrdom.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:25 pmNo…you guys got it wrong.
These people hate freedom
wait a minute….these are the same people that wanted Saddam out, so they can have more freedom, and now they are supporting Hezbollah???
my compassionate conservative brain is malfunctioning!!!
August 4th, 2006 at 1:25 pmGood for the Iraqi people…
August 4th, 2006 at 1:28 pmCaption Contest:
“Damn it Achmed, who would have thought this colored toilet paper would have sold so well?”
August 4th, 2006 at 1:30 pmThe MSM is running this story Trolls, its really news. So what now trolls, is this just par for the course, part of the overall bigger and better picture, are we focusing only on the negative here. OK, so tell me some positive news out of Iraq, news that is new, not the old stuff. Because this is new also.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:31 pmYou mean staying the course is not working? Shut up!
August 4th, 2006 at 1:31 pmWinning hearts and minds!
Please visit yesterday’s Wingnut Roundup and, today, a cheap shot at Tom Friedman, the Moustache of Understanding.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:31 pmTo every Bush and Cheney lover in America: at $10 billion a month we’re sure getting our money’s worth. But don’t fret none, you aren’t going to be eating this whole cost: your children and your children’s children will burning holes in their pockets for generations to come. Ain’t stupidity grand?
August 4th, 2006 at 1:32 pmThese kids need a job, Bill O’ should start a Falafal fast food chain, he could emply thousands!
August 4th, 2006 at 1:32 pmbeautiful.
simply beautiful!!!
a ‘uniter and not a divider’…. there is no reason we can’t get ten million people to march on d.c…. i will bring the lighter…
August 4th, 2006 at 1:32 pmDo you think meddling around in the Middle East, with things that you dont understand, are gonna work out well? If the neocons were actaully smart, they would get off the oil, move Isreal, and then nuke the rest, they cant even do that.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:33 pmHave you all seen CSPAN?
rtsp://video.c-span.org/60days/ap072906_theories.rm
August 4th, 2006 at 1:33 pmNot bad for only $500 billion invested to date - go Bush!
August 4th, 2006 at 1:34 pmif you look really closely, you can see one of them saying,
‘we hate america because of its freedom…’
no really, look at the tape….
August 4th, 2006 at 1:38 pmYou just gotta LOVE the first Amendment!! “Death to America” sounds like something the Queen of Mourning, Cindy Sheehan would spout, - of course, with her NEW “best friend” Hugo Chavez by her side….(Naturally, in a show of solidarity, we could count on the wack-jobs from Code Pink-o, and Int’l ANSWER to take up the cry…) BTW - Did Cindy accompany HUGo to Iran to meet with his other BFF, President AchateJews??
Busy day….’til later
August 4th, 2006 at 1:38 pmFunny, this story doesn’t mention anything about American flags or effigy-Bush-burning: http://www.cnn.com/ 2006/ WORLD/ meast/ 08/ 04/ iraq.main/ index.html
August 4th, 2006 at 1:40 pmBusy day….’til later
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Sorry you feel so bad about being a loser… but that is the way it works .. Truth hurts.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:40 pmWhats the matter Mighty, did Mr. Aphrodite run out of Viagra?
August 4th, 2006 at 1:41 pm#21
We need to get this organized: The Million People March to inform our Dictatorship (that goes for BOTH Repukes, and Democant’s) that we can and will take back control over this Government.
Ah, and there goes MA, completely off topic AS USUAL. It must cripple you to have so much hate for another woman. But that’s how you catty bitches treat each other usually, right?
August 4th, 2006 at 1:41 pmYou cannot, and never will, FORCE people into a Democracy. But if you do, be prepared to get snake-bitten, as we now so clearly see.
Comment by DieNowForPeace
The spirit of humanity was shown clearly by the early American slogan… DONT TREAD ON ME. No humans accept living under the dominion of others against their will.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:42 pmAnd Trolls,
We are not gleefully enjoying anti-American marches, we do enjoy the truth getting out that the Iraq thing ain’t workin’.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:43 pmAmerica is bringing people closer together. The Secret State of America has not only lost Iraq and Afghanistan, but Lebanon too. America and their Zionist (not Jewish) bretheren have managed to bring Christian and Arab groups together in Lebanon too.
Most Americans don’t know that Israel is bombing the Maronite Christians which is closely joined to the Roman Catholic church that was created in the very early 400s. That is how little the US knows about Lebanon. The country’s leadership is primarily Christian. The US has managed to bring multiple Christian and Arab groups together and has killed the relationship that it was hoping to have with this country into the forseable future.
Israel is now bombing the Christian heartland in central and northern Lebanon and has killed a over two dozen Christians.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:43 pmReply to SuperEdo:
Funny, this story doesn’t mention anything about American flags or effigy-Bush-burning: http://www.cnn.com/ 2006/ WORLD/ meast/ 08/ 04/ iraq.main/ index.html
Your CNN article also pointlessly mentions:
Hezbollah’s capture of two Israeli soldiers sparked the fighting in a cross-border raid July 12.
Problem is, we know this is a LIE.
So of the two, I’ll be trusting the one that isn’t printing obvious lies. Kthx.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:46 pmHoly shit. I hope this is covered in the MSM along with quotes from Bush, Wolfy, Cheney and 250 million a day that we are spending. That liberal media. This should be put in all the ads for upcoming elections. For good measure, ads should show the gas prices under moron’s administration.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:48 pmI say get the troops out and glass the entire middle east.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:53 pmYeh, this is going REAL well. Turning a corner, any moment now,………….. wait for it….yah, there it is, “last throes”. Ah, finally. I feel so much better now.
And Rummy just sat there yesterday, blustering away, debating semantics, hoping that we’d fall for his line that history would tell the true story of Iraq, blind to the current trend of steady deterioration. That this guy hasnt been forceably removed is beyond me…
August 4th, 2006 at 1:53 pmNow let me get this right is Bush a war President or a peace President. The US invades Iraq to take over the oil rights Bush could care less about the Iraq people. Now that the US has spent 1 trillon dollars on who knows what the Iraq people want us out. Oh yes and Rummy says they want us to stay. Now is someone lying here. Well it’s time to move on to cause more trouble so Bush is starting trouble for Cuba. Notice how Bush says Iran is giving weapons and support to Hezbollah while the US is giving weapons to Israel and support, Who’s wrong there or are we the same. Liebernam might be the next Secretary of Defense because of the Kiss by Bush. Now that would be something a Jewish Secretary of Defense well Israel will have all they need then. Now the plan is get as much land next to Syria for future attacks of Iran and Syria. Human lives loss mean nothing just keep moving to get closer and then we strike. Oh yes we must get Cuba too. Bush is crazy and sick if Americans don’t stop him all hell will break loose.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:56 pmBush is the new Saddam. He is a uniter. He is uniting most of the world againts the US.
August 4th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#32,
full disclosure here: oh no, I AM ENJOYING the march… i may be one of the furthest left non-troll, but, yes, i LOVE seeing this!
why would i not love seeing this when i wish i were doing the same here???
August 4th, 2006 at 1:57 pm#36
August 4th, 2006 at 1:58 pmIf you are refering to nuking the ME because the neo-con plan isn’t working then you are insane. Reminds me of a kid who will cut a football because they won’t let him be the quarterback. Anyway how are we supposed to used radiated oil?
Woops, time to impose a free speech zone.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:00 pmI say we invade; if the people of Iraq are going to openly support terrorist, we can not let this stand.
Moreover, I understand the “government” of Iraq is merely a puppet of a larger more powerful country. This country is viewed by many in Europe as one of the greatest dangers to world security. Plus I understand this country, the one pulling the strings in Iraq, spies on its own citizens; tortures and indefinitely detains those it views as a threat (without trial, I might add) and many other offenses.
It is only the American way to not tolerate both Mideast countries that support terrorists along with countries that can not respect humane treatment and act as their puppeteers. To protect America, we must invade!
August 4th, 2006 at 2:00 pmtheres a lesson to be learn here a fledgling democracy can round up a million demonstrators against Bush (America) and America cant even manage that with 10 times the population ….STRANGE
August 4th, 2006 at 2:01 pmI recall pre-war warnings, that removing Saddam could create a shiite majority country closely allied with Iran, and Syria.
As for the trolls, this is a rock and hard place moment, they are supposed to support our friends and allies in the middle east, but want the death and destruction of anyone who does not suppport Isreal.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:01 pmThat this guy hasnt been forceably removed is beyond me…
‘That guy’ is doing exactly what the neocon cabal that has hijacked this country needs him to do. It only looks like incompetence because the real goals are radically different from his fake ones.
Say I was making an omlette, and ll I had to make it in was a crummy old pan. During preperation of the omlette, I walk away and make a sandwich, during which the omlette burns up, and the pan is damaged. If you judge my actions within the goalset of ‘making a successful omlette’, I have indeed failed miserably, but if you realize that my true intent was to damage the pan so I would have an excuse to go out and buy a new one, you see that I was indeed successful.
In this case, our administration’s goal is not to free Iraq, or stabilize Iraq, or do anything positive for Iraq. Our goal is to destabilize the region, retard the flow of oil for the region, and create an excuse for permanent military bases, as well as forays into other, nearby ‘problem regions’ (Iran, Syria, etc.)
Seen in this light, Rummy’s doing a bang-up job. Don’t expect him to lose his job anytime soon.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:01 pmwhy are not the architects of this disaster in jail ? In a just society people who f**k-up pay the consequences. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfie, Feith, Perle, all are still free living among us with blood on their hands. They all should be lynched.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:01 pmThose convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.
Dale Carnegie
August 4th, 2006 at 2:04 pmBusy day….’til later
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 4, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
So thats your only comment today. I don’t think you should get off that easily.
I’ve been posting here for a couple of months, and in that time you’ve been an unwavering supporter of this horror show that this administration has become. You need to understand this. Tens of thousands of people are dead in Iraq, hundreds in Lebanon and Israel, as well as several thousand American soldiers.
The world is a far more dangerous place, and America has complete lost it’s moral authority as well as it’s own moral compass.
You MA are culpable. You have got to grasp this. You personally, and Sexion and Exley and all the others that hover around to badger, bait and annoy. You all share culpability in the tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of deaths that this administration, enabled by Americans like you, is responsible for.
I feel the weight of my own culpability, apathy, failure to act, failure to protest, but you guys, the active enablers, how can you possibly continue to function?
August 4th, 2006 at 2:05 pmGeez Louise I do not want to die .. do you think they mean “all Americans” when they wish America dead or just the bushiters …
Cause I saw the errors of my ways I hate bush … he is not on my Xmas list anymore
August 4th, 2006 at 2:23 pmReply to jason baddo:
why are not the architects of this disaster in jail ?
Because the architects of this disaster run the jails. The foxes are firmly in charge of the henhouse.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:25 pmAnd this administration is keeping our troops in Iraq for this? Their policy decisions have ended in disaster and the soldiers and Iraqis are paying the price for it.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:26 pmComforting.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:27 pmFlower petals and chocolates, anyone?
August 4th, 2006 at 2:33 pmYea anti-America crowd, but where is the good news in Iraq,? I heard they patched a the roof of a school and threw cheap candy, why not report on that?
August 4th, 2006 at 2:34 pmyou guys, the active enablers, how can you possibly continue to function?
Comment by Brian Coughlan — August 4, 2006 @ 2:05 pm
Because from these enablers’ perspective, they are not at fault. They are never at fault, and they will never take responsibility for their own failures.
See, the mess in Iraq is the Iraqis’ fault for not accepting the American “gift” of freedom, and for not understanding democracy. Or it is the liberals’ fault, for not supporting any and all insane schemes flowing out of the White House. Or it is the media’s fault, for not parroting the official line.
With this alternative reality crowd, the responsibility never, ever rests on the shoulders of those who conceived the failed policy, pushed for its acceptance, ignored advise, and implemented the ill-conceived policies -the world be damned. It is not their fault.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:41 pmIs anyone surprised by this outcome? Of course, these people hate America. Americans would hate anyone that came to our country and did what America (or more to the point, Bush) has done to Iraq. As far as Mighty A.’s comment “Queen of Mourning, Cindy Sheehan,” this is how the rightwing fascist fanatics view the mother of a soldier who died for his country? How shameful is that? Yet, they claim to support our troops. Ha! If you truly support our troops, then you most certainly must support the family members of those troops. But I think we all know that republicans and the purported “christians” that support this hideous Bush regime do not really support our troops. They just love Bush because he is a hateful bigot just like them.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:41 pmWell, we can’t cut and run now. Look at all those terrorists we have to kill.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:42 pmLiberals need to stop bashing Bush and start bashing “Conservatism” in general. Its what they do to us. We have to stop saying its ok to be a Conservative as long as you are good and be a “real” conservative. The average voter has no idea the conservative party has been hijacked by neo-cons. This is what conservatism has become, this is what it is.
“Hypocracy and denial” “The Church of Conservatism”. Will be my new book.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:48 pm#56
Gregor, you hit the nail on the heaad.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:50 pmThe War in Iraq will make the GOP an impossible brand to sell come November. In the end, the neocons will get:
August 4th, 2006 at 2:55 pmNo oil
No democracy
No freedom on the march
No peace in the Middle East
No WMD
No credibility
No treatment as liberators
Iraq is a failed GOP/Republican/Conservative/Neocon policy that will ahve to be answered for at every campaign by every candidate. Is the US or the world any safer or better off in any way with this outfit in the White House? Have YOU had enough?
#63
No oil
No democracy
No freedom on the march
No peace in the Middle East
No WMD
No credibility
No treatment as liberators
but we get lots of brush cleared in Texas
August 4th, 2006 at 2:57 pmIf you are fu#ked and you don’t know it, are you any less fu#ked?
August 4th, 2006 at 2:57 pmNeocon, Richard Perle, 9/’03: “A year from now I’d be surprised if there’s not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.â€
Comment by Bluedog49
Oh well, they got a burning effigy instead (with Vampire fangs, no less!)
Maybe they could name the square “The Burning Bush”?
August 4th, 2006 at 2:58 pm“Hypocracy and denial†“The Church of Conservatismâ€. Will be my new book.
Comment by For Truth — August 4, 2006 @ 2:48 pm
I agree. My fondest wish would be to see the republican party destroyed as a political force in the US, as an object lesson to war mongers everywhere. Alas the US system is so hopelessly moribund, that even this level of ineptitude only gets you a brief timeout, if even that:-(
August 4th, 2006 at 2:58 pmRealScientist,
Thanks. I am really frustrated.
These dimwits have been proven wrong about everything they’ve pushed for, and they still blame others using the worst accusations: Critics are traitors, anti-Americans, anti-Semites, in bed with terrorists…
If I got a dime for every instance I was accused of these things, I would retire today. But I know I won’t get as as much as an apology: That would be a recognition that I (and others who agreed with me) was right all along.
Having run out of people on Earth to blame for their failures, I wholly expect these Bush cultists to start blaming the little green men from outerspace…
August 4th, 2006 at 2:59 pm. . . speaking of Cindy Sheehan, if Bush gives her 10 minutes last summer before his “advisors” allowed her thing to gain momentum, we wouldn’t even know her name. These must be the same advisors who helped him frame “Social Security Reform” and nominating Harriet Meyers, and Iraq.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:59 pmDamn you negative liberal nabobs. Freedom is on the march, by the tens of thousands.
-Moqtadr Al Sadr
August 4th, 2006 at 3:00 pmName one thing Bush has made better?
American and Israeli flag sales in Muslim countries are going through the roof.
-GSD
August 4th, 2006 at 3:00 pmName one thing Bush has made better? We now have “Free Speech Zones” in the United States of America.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:03 pmAh crap, Arabs and Muslims with opinions, freely expressing them like is done in the United States? Preposterous! We must end this at once!
Meanwhile millions of Iraqis sat at home with other opinions. Shocking!
August 4th, 2006 at 3:04 pmName one thing Bush has made better?
demand for anti-depressant pills
August 4th, 2006 at 3:06 pmMighty Aphrodite makes another “cut and run” remark. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
A new neocon movie, starring Bush, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld: “TruthBusters” and their theme song, “Who Ya Gonna Blame?, TruthBusters”.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:11 pmAh crap, Arabs and Muslims with opinions, freely expressing them like is done in the United States? Preposterous! We must end this at once!
Meanwhile millions of Iraqis sat at home with other opinions. Shocking!
Comment by Seixon — August 4, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
Ah yes, here you are. So this is just Iraqis expressing their freedom of Speech? You don’t think that it’s going to end in many, many dead people? You think the whole Israel Lebanon think will blow over, everyone will go home and no harm done? Other than the 1000+ dead people that is.
Or could it be that you know that people will be killed, and you are sick enough to have a good old laugh about it, because you just don’t care. It just doesn’t bother you at all.
You are living proof there is no God, or if he does exist, that he is a sick, sick bastard.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:13 pmName one thing Bush has made better?
The opening dialogues of late night talk shows.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:13 pmSeixon must not be getting enough “lord”ing over on his own website today. If there are people in the streets handing out “sweets and flowers” or sitting in their homes having their daily “Bush” celebration cake then why doesn’t Faux News show it? And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if BushCo DOES try to “stop this at once”.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:18 pmAnd why are we not doing the same? I, just like every one else here, am sitting at my computer instead of doing what we really need to be doing. We have to look like complete idiots to the rest of the world as we do not protest as we should when taken over by a thug administration.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#49 - Brian Couglin, one of my FAVOURITE hand-wringers, notes: “…and in that time you’ve been an unwavering supporter of this horror show that this administration has become….”
*****Brian, I suppose if you are an unswerving supporter of the status quo and maniacal dictators, (like Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain or my favourite former President, Jimmeh Carter) you would not care about dead Kurds, dead Israelis, dead Lebanese, mass graves, etc. Afterall, tired old Europe could not keep the Soviets at bay and relied on the US to supply a mantle of protection. (What’s a few dictators among friends? They do have a way of making the trains run on time and keeping things “in order”. Europe - a bastion of Jew-hating for centuries - they couldn’t get those trains loaded fast enough, could they?
I am saddened to see Iraqi civilians killed by ANYONE - unfortunately life isn’t as nice, neat and orderly as the dictators of old provided for the general populations of the countries they wooed and later coerced through deadly force and fear. If the Iraqi’s cannot destroy or civilize the Islamo-wacks, they may not be capable of enjoying the fruits of democracy.
Allow me to sooth your worries - you appear to be such an intimidated, frightened little putz - I’m sure you’re not culpable of ANYTHING - good or bad….
And for your finale - ta’ da!! “I feel the weight of my own culpability, apathy, failure to act, failure to protest, but you guys, the active enablers, how can you possibly continue to function?”
August 4th, 2006 at 3:24 pm*******I have a feeling you relish all those feelings - how else could you feel soooo
“morally superior “
President Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, showing the men with Dracula teeth.
God even the Iraqis know he is a direct decendand of Vlad the impaler ( Dracula)
August 4th, 2006 at 3:25 pmAn friend of mine in Austin is a singer/songwriter, and one of his older tunes is so damn poignant right now:
“Good God”
Words and Music
by Billy Harvey
God forgive me
For all that I’ve am
I’m all of the things
I don’t understand
I live in a World
Where people get killed
For nothing they’ve done
Is that really your will?
Good, God. (x4)
Made your image
Just what does that mean?
Cause I’ve been afraid of
So much that I’ve seen
If people could be
More heartless and cruel
Then I’m not so sure but
You probaly could too
Good God (x4)
How could you forgive us?
This human-like race
We’re not running, we’re falling
From all of your Grace
With all the destruction
That we, willing to sow
We don’t have the courage
To let anything grow
Good God (x4)
Are you even up there?
What’s really your name?
Was all this creation
Done partly in vain?
I give you the benefit
Of all of my doubt
If you give me some answers
I could use them right now
Good God (x4)
August 4th, 2006 at 3:27 pm“Stay The Course”.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:28 pmThe difference between libs and Neocons.
Libs see people protesting in the streets and believe the war is lost, lets cut and run. Mission failed.
Neocons see people marching in the streets and say, wow they are voicing their opinion and not getting shot. Mission accomplished.
I see democracy in action…
August 4th, 2006 at 3:29 pmoh my! i am thanking god right now that our leader is not cutting the shrubs in lebanon! thank you, jesus!!!!
August 4th, 2006 at 3:31 pmI see democracy in action…
Comment by Wow
If you’re seeing the Democracy in action, why aren’t you paying attention to what their message is?
US OUT OF IRAQ NOW is pretty straight forward to those of us with functioning frontal lobes…
August 4th, 2006 at 3:32 pmBrian, I suppose if you are an unswerving supporter of the status quo and maniacal dictators, (like Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain or
Thats it? The past? All Europeans are Jew hating fascists because of the history of 60 years ago? The boilerplate “they are the Nazis and I’m Winston Churchhill” riff? Does nothing touch you, and are you really a woman, do you realize it’s 2006 and the man you enable is responsible for 50,000+ and counting deaths?
Do you just not care?
Oh and mea culpa. Yes I’m a whiny hand wringer, rational humans get that way when faced with dreadful things they have little power to prevent.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:34 pmhey, i don’t care if it is only thousands, ten of thousands or millions of protesters against bush!
i am not greedy! i am happy knowing that bush is being burned in effigy and that these protesters are speaking truth to power!!!
go iraqi dissidents!!!
August 4th, 2006 at 3:35 pm87% of Iraqies want American troops OUT NOW
1 Bush does not want the troops out
August 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmWell I would sure hope so, since there is no God. Don’t tell the Iraqis though, they might get a bit upset and protest against you. Which in your logic would immediately result in the deaths of thousands of people. Or something. I’m not quite sure what the hell you’re actually trying to say.
Comment by Seixon — August 4, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
Well we can agree on that. I’m talking about cause and effect, the collapse of Iraq the war in Lebanon, the boiling pot of anger, bitterness and resentment the middle east has become.
By allowing the Israelies a free hand to slaughter at will, the pressure is up another notch, these protests are hardly surprising, but they are not good news. Something is going to blow. You people are like kids playing russian roulette, except of course the gun is always pointed at someone elses head.
So thats ok.
Shades of gray. Try to figure it out. Some day.
The gall of this comment!!! Try addressing that to your own President Bush, the poster boy for monochrome foreign policy.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:40 pm#57 - BluePuP - The LAST thing the Queen of Mourning was right about was the spelling of her dear son’s name. (I don’t think wshe went to Iran with her new BFF HUGo - but I could be wrong. I haven’t seen her since she wqas partying with the newly coiffed Cynthia McKinney…)
#58 - “….as Mighty A.’s comment “Queen of Mourning, Cindy Sheehan,†this is how the rightwing fascist fanatics view the mother of a soldier who died for his country?…”
Comment by GayBare
******Leftwing commie fanatics despise the US so much they will throw their arms around a ANYONE who hates this country with complete venom (i.e. HUGo and AchateJewsalot). I feel terribly sorry for Mr. and Mrs. Sheehan’s loss of their beloved son, Casey. We owe him a debt of gratitude that can never be re-paid. Bravely ENLISTING twice, someone from the Left should HONOR him and haul her off his coffin. Agreeing with everything deranged Cindy says does not honor her son, herself or our country. But the fact that she now has a new job, new prominence, new “friends” and tons of air miles seems to have lifted her lagging spirit.
“Hateful bigot”? How predictably adorable!! Did you THINK thaaat one up ALL by yourself???
August 4th, 2006 at 3:41 pmby bringing hope and progress into the lives of millions.
So less electricity, close to (or in) civil war, less protection from militia, warlords and local army thugs, very little progress on building (or rebuilding since Bush’s bombs did a hell of a job) infrastructure, so this is bringing progress and hope? Hellofajob Bush. Why people like MA and Sexless think this is a good thing is beyond logic.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:41 pmSeixon (was hoping to NEVER write that ‘name’ again),
If Iraq is a Democracy, and the MAJORITY want us to leave, uh, what was your argument again? Oh yes, varying opinions in Iraq, BUT, again, the MAJORITY want us out. Would you like a pie chart to SEE what a majority looks like?
August 4th, 2006 at 3:42 pmThe government of Iraq wants a timetable for us to leave and these protests show that many Iraqis want the US out. But there are many at home that have not spoken or marched that want us to stay. I’ll go with my gut, just like Bush, and say it’s time we left.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#104 Seixon (was hoping to NEVER write that ‘name’ again),
Comment by DieNowForPeace — August 4, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
You can try Saucisson.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:44 pmReply to #9
Well I ma not a troll but I am going to take astab at aswering your question.
Haliburton’s bottom line and Dick Chaney’s retirement pay from Haliburton have certainly improved during this administration.
Do I win a prize or what?
August 4th, 2006 at 3:45 pmIraqis hold many opinions, try not to forget that they are actually humans who can think with their brains just like you and me, not just pieces of meat you fling in front of your political opponents as a debate argument.
Maybe you should tell that to Mr. Bush. Show me one instance where Bush has done something in reaction to the opinions of the people of Iraq. Seems that to Bush, Iraqi people are just pieces of meat that happened to get in the way of a big oil field.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pmLeftwing commie fanatics despise the US so much they will throw their arms around a ANYONE who hates this country with complete venom (i.e. HUGo and AchateJewsalot).
This thing in Iraq is disintegrating. All the rethoric and name calling in the world cannot stop reality from intruding. It is certainly going to get much worse before it gets better, and all the deaths that this causes will be laid at the republicans door. Where they belong. It almost makes me grasp why people insist on the death penalty.
You MA and Co. (you know who are) are responsible. You need to understand and absorb your guilt. For your own mental health, such as it is.
How will you feel when the complete implosion comes? You’ve been warned, it’s more than you deserve:-(
August 4th, 2006 at 3:49 pmNeocons on suicide watch. Cruel summer for them.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:53 pm101, Mighty,
I debunked your point in #32, way before you even posted, shut up now. I knew you would be spewing the trash, I “preemtively” countered you.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:55 pmNeocons on suicide watch. Cruel summer for them.
Comment by Manuel
“OH HAPPY DAYS!”
August 4th, 2006 at 3:56 pmI wonder what Saddam, or Brezhnev, or Castro or Adolf would have done if as much free speech were expressed during their regimes?? Did you notice the Arab-Israelis demostrating FREELY in Jerusalem?? I wonder if AchhateJews would allow a pro-Israeli rally in Tehran? Would HUGo allow the streets of Caracas to be covered by the press the way the MSM is allowed to cover domestic rallies??
What is truly pathetic is the Culture WAR is underway and Leftists Progs think they can “negotiate” it away. Unfortunately, negotiating with this enemy is doubtful. (Hint: While I disagree with 99% of your opinions - I do not wish you ANY HARM to come to you. That cannot be said by the extreme Islamo-wacks.)
August 4th, 2006 at 3:57 pmYo Trolls,
Would you all vote for President-Monkey-Brains today?
For those of you who would still answer yes. Your boy has got a few more years in office. How about this one, and answer truthfully now, given his track record, do you think things are going to improve and a year from now you’ll be whistling I Told You So, or do you think that President-Monkey-Brains will bring us and the world a few more disasters?
Unfortunately for most of us this one is a quick answer, but regardless, see ya a year from now.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:59 pmI only hope the we all still exist.
I wonder what Saddam, or Brezhnev, or Castro or Adolf would have done if as much free speech were expressed during their regimes??
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Who cares really. This isnt WWII.
The bottom line is NeoCons promised they were doing good for the people of Iraq. And the people of Iraq now chant the same crap Iranians do. NeoCons have failed at their STATED goals. Failure == punishment.
August 4th, 2006 at 3:59 pmGOP+Chaos=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
August 4th, 2006 at 4:00 pmUh, in response to all your posts, Mighty Aphrodite, you are yet again foaming at the mouth. Adorable? Glad you think so. Frankly, I find you DEPLORABLE. I find your backwards thinking shameful. I find your hatred and bigotry intolerable. And as a matter of fact I think you are a hateful bigot (I do recall some time ago you admitted to being a KKK sympathizer, so that just about says it all). It is only hateful bigots that support the Bush regime. Let’s call a spade a spade, dear Mighty one. Quit hiding under the guise of someone who cares about the United States and its people. You are just another garden variety bigot out to turn back the hands of time to when blacks were slaves. No doubt, you would have loved living in that time. As far as Cindy Sheehan goes, that woman is an angel. Her son died for this country, yet you feel no shame in mocking her. You show your true colors with those actions. So go ahead and foam at the mouth, call people names, and act out like a spoiled brat who has not gotten her way. I will say to you what I said to another bigot posting in another thread, time and progress are beautiful things, and both will do away with the likes of you. Go ahead now and call me names. Your “wit” is ever so dull and tiresome.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:00 pmAh crap, Arabs and Muslims with opinions, freely expressing them like is done in the United States? Preposterous! We must end this at once!
Comment by Seixon — August 4, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
Yes, millions expressing the same opinions we are told are dangerous and cause for worry when they come out of Iran or Syria.
Nobody is saying those protests must be brough to an end, that’s your own strawman. What is worrysome is the rising anti-American sentiment that many critics of the war warned would happen has happened. The Bush administration was also warned that a democratic Iraq wouldn’t necessarily translate into an ally. They ignored both warnings.
If the Bush administration is dead-set on “staying the course”, things are going to get even uglier, assuming that is possible.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:02 pmFor Truth - I think they refer to your “logic” as “premature enunciation” - Obviously, this guy didn’t get the “talking points”:
“why would i not love seeing this when i wish i were doing the same here???”
August 4th, 2006 at 4:03 pmby flagist
Now Iraqis hate the US instead of Saddam, good job, I give it an A+.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:03 pm“I’m a uniter, not a divider”- George W. Bush
August 4th, 2006 at 4:03 pmMighty,
It wasn’t logic, none needed, it was just a plain fact. Sorry you gotta lump us all in with a few moonbats. Guess I need to lump you in with the WorldNetDaily crowd too?
August 4th, 2006 at 4:05 pmI wonder what Saddam, or Brezhnev, or Castro or Adolf would have done if as much free speech were expressed during their regimes?
Let me think…..I wonder if they would intitute Free Speech areas? Or maybe they would limit who could attend and ask questions? Wait a minute…. that’s was Bush has done. Sorry
When you say Culture War is that the same one that is being waged by NeoCon Chritians? Because I don’t think the people of Iraq or any muslim country would be too interested in the NeoCon Culture.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:05 pmThe people who try and play this as a ‘clash of civilizations’ or as some kind of Disneyland morality play are simpy desperate to avoid the truth: the criminal cronies of Bush - that includes James Baker - wanted to get their hand on Iraq’s oil - not to sell it so much as to prevent it from being sold. They won’t touch this topic because it reveals just how rotten the Bush White House is - pathetic apologists for the Bushes notwithstanding.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pm#92
Seixon -
‘ … He expresses even more concern about the task the U.S. military might face after a victory. “What is postwar Iraq going to look like, with the Kurds and the Sunnis and the Shiites? That’s a huge question, to my mind. It really should be part of the overall campaign plan.” … ‘
‘ … The administration may be discussing the issue behind closed doors, Schwarzkopf says, but he thinks it hasn’t sufficiently explained its thinking to the world, especially its assessment of the time, people and money needed. “I would hope that we have in place the adequate resources to become an army of occupation,” he warns, “because you’re going to walk into chaos.” … ‘
Retired General Norman Schwartzkopf from “Desert Caution’ - January 28, 2003
Here is the “shade of grey ” that I do not understand about you.
Schwarzkopf is ( or at least was in 2000 ) a Republican. He campaigned with G.W. Bush on his first campaign. He has also proven himself to be a competent general who knows this region very well.
Why are you so forgiving of a president who ignored very competent advice from a member of his own party?
This mess was avoidable. Nothing but avoidable.
This is supposed to be an “MBA president” ( My condolences to the Harvard Business School . First Bush - Then Jeffrey Skilling … )
MBA’s engage in feasibility studies. If a CEO in corporate America ignores a competent feasibility study and gets thousands of people killed ( in this case - our troops ) - he’d get fired.
If he ignores a competent feasbility study and wastes several hundred billions of dollars - he’d get fired.
Why you do not invest your energy in saying “Based upon the above points … Bush should be fired” is the so-called “shade of grey” that I do understand about you.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:08 pmUS OUT OF IRAQ NOW is pretty straight forward to those of us with functioning frontal lobes…
Frontal lobes, well try using yours and guess how many insurgents are in Iraq. Do you think they are at the protest? Do you think they would say things to benefit thier idiology and not the people of Iraq? Do you believe the enemy would try to manipulate the media to lose support for the war, (AKA propaganda)?
They now have a right to protest and you are still complaining… You would have to be an idiot to think they all felt that way. I see people protest in America against America and it is always the same fanatical groups. Honestly how many protesters are insurgents?
August 4th, 2006 at 4:09 pm(Hint: While I disagree with 99% of your opinions - I do not wish you ANY HARM to come to you. That cannot be said by the extreme Islamo-wacks.)
Likewise. However, you don’t care if harm comes to Iraqis or Lebanese who have the bad luck to get in they way of an American bullet, or an Israeli bomb. That I have a problem with. You are an inverterate “ends justify the meansist”, and that never turns out well.
What is truly pathetic is the Culture WAR is underway
No, it’s really not. Between the US and EU we possess the lions share of the wealth and weapons, we can afford to be maganimous, take minor risks for enormous gain. We can afford to take terrorists bodies blows, without overeacting and inflaming further attacks.
This is rather common or garden war rethoric to get you all fired up and bought in. To accept any atrocity any body count to get the “job” done. It’s the exact same shit wheeled out every time there is a war. Jesus, it’s so obvious, I’m constantly amazed at modestly lucid people like yourself, who have really bought this stuff.
So here you are. You’ve championed and cheerlead, supported and spouted relentless apologetics. Yet still it’s a bloodbath.
To quote a writer I rather like :
The psychology behind this is kind of transparent. When you’ve got your boot on someone’s neck and you’re crushing them, you can’t say to yourself, “I’m a son of a bitch and I’m doing it for my own benefit.†So what you have to do is figure out some way of saying, “I’m doing it for their benefit.†It’s like when you punish a child. “It is for your good, I have to do it. It is my responsibility.â€
And that’s a very natural position to take when you are beating somebody with a club. I’m sure it’s probably close to universal. And I think that’s the kind of intellectual and moral content behind colonization.
That is where you are at. Accepting you are ill is part of recovery, I’d suggest you guys get started, there is a long way to go.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:15 pmWow, so now you’ve called me retarded. Three cheers for the smear merchants at TP!
Three cheers for the people like Seixon who believe war is the best solution to obtain peace and refuse to recognize a failed policy because “It’s part of a bigger plan.”
August 4th, 2006 at 4:17 pmThey now have a right to protest and you are still complaining
-wow (man, that’s one thick skull you’ve got)
I never wanted to give them the right to protest, and according to Shrub, that’s not why we went there, until, every reason he gave turned out to be a lie, then he changed his reason for attacking (”liberating”).
Are you that stupid, REALLY??? Don’t put words in my mouth, cause I NEVER complained about their protesting, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of forcing them to be a Democracy (to “stabilize” the redion), and all we got from it was MORE TERRORISTS and more war. Dumbass.
In other words, NEOCONS SUPPORT TERRRORISM, BECUASE THEY’RE SO GOOD AT CREATING THEM.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:19 pmI wonder what Saddam, or Brezhnev, or Castro or Adolf would have done if as much free speech were expressed during their regimes??
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 4, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
Who knows and who cares. That is not relevant to the fact that demonstrators in Iraq are chanting “Death to Israel” -I thought hating Israel was enough excuse for you to bomb Lebanon back to the stone age.
And come to think of it, do not try to sound like you know your history. You don’t. Evidence, you say? Sure, here it is:
Thank goodness our friends and allies did not desert us during our Civil War!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 3, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
By the way, you still haven’t told me the names of those “friends and allies”…
August 4th, 2006 at 4:20 pmThank goodness our friends and allies did not desert us during our Civil War!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 3, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
By the way, you still haven’t told me the names of those “friends and alliesâ€â€¦
Comment by Gregor Samsa
From what I have read Britian wanted to help the SOUTH during Americas civilwar but they didnt because public opinion in England was squarely against slavery as they had recently outlawed it themselves.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:22 pmFrom what I have read Britian wanted to help the SOUTH during Americas civilwar but they didnt because public opinion in England was squarely against slavery as they had recently outlawed it themselves.
So you could then say that Britian DID desert the South! Interesting.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:26 pmDeath to the bush regime is a much more accurate statement.
bush must be tried and convicted of mass murder.
What else is it when a man pretending to have been elected, so he is not an elected official, uses the auspices and facilities of an entire government to kill muslims in their homelands?
International murderer.
Our sadistic government must be stopped, lest we all become masochists.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:29 pmWell, at least they got the part about the Dracula teeth right!
August 4th, 2006 at 4:31 pm#135 - Brian - Do you think the Hezbollah rocket launch specialists make sure the emergency radio frequency warns the citizens of Haifa and Kiryat Shmona when incoming kadusha are scheduled?? Failing that - I’m sure they leaflet the neighbourhoods they intend to target…. Those poor, misunderstood Islamo-wacks
You assume you know my feelings - how arrogant!! I only assumed the level of youeangst because you shared your guilt and trepidation. I wish NO civilian on either side to be hurt or killed - but I realize wars have always ensnared the innocent. Who do you think is targeting civilians much more indiscriminately, Hezbollah or Israelis??? Thank goodness I don’t subscribe to the faluty logic of “subjective morality”!!
Brian, please tell me you have a few friends who are a bit more cheerful…
August 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pm“Ohlmert” is Yiddish for “Bush.”
August 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pmI supported the liberation of Iraq. I believed the establishment of a democratic state in the Arab Middle East could serve as a model for other Arab nations to emulate and thus help create a more peaceful Middle East which would no longer give birth to monsters like Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Many of my liberal or “progressive” friends disagreed, saying such a thing was not possible–that the Arab Islamic world was incapable of creating and sustaining a peaceful, civilized democracy. I thought such sentiments were too pessimistic. While I like to think I was not naive enough to believe it would be easy, I did believe a democratic Arab state was possible. I looked to history and saw democratic states emerge from the ruins of Nazi Germany and militaristic Japan. However, with each passing day, it appears that I was wrong and my friends were correct. It seems ever clearer that Islam and democacy are not compatible in the Arab Middle East. While I still support the decison to remove Saddam Hussein, I am more pessismistic than ever that the Arab Islamic world will ever be a peaceful, democratic region. Hopefully I am wrong and that in 10 years, Iraq will be what we hoped.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pm“Freedom’sfighterson the march”— George W. Bush
August 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pmYou said millions disagreed, but you have no evidence other than your common sense opinion.
You are absolutely correct sir. I am stating my opinion that millions of Iraqis do not agree completely with these protestors as a fact. Call me bold, but that’s what I’m doing. Another bold opinion stated as fact: not all Americans disagree with the Bush administration. Shocking! I mean gosh, all those protestors in the streets in the US, must mean that everyone in the whole country thinks that Bush is Hitler!
Yeah, that’s your logic in full display. Pretty hilarious.
Yikes,
You put words in my mouth. Stop. Thanks.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pmShut up Seixon, you dont even live here.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI am glad to see Mighty didn’t give up on us, she is mighty skilled at her craft.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:41 pm#150 - Exley -
August 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pmIt is not the Arab world at large that may be incapable of democratic governance, but the Iraqis are not really a “nation” as we have come to know the term. The Iraqi state was forged by fiat in 1932 by the British. There are three disparate cultures, two of them diametrically oppossed to each other on a religious basis. Taking away the iron fist that kept them under control was a major geopolitical blunder. The best we can hope for is a Shiite dictatorship that crushes the Sunni revolt after we depart. Sooner the damn better.
Thanks for listening.
[…]because the leadership of those two countries stand behind those opinions, and are actively helping Hezbollah and Hamas.
Comment by Seixon — August 4, 2006 @ 4:31 pm
People in the gofernment in Iraq are definitely not enamoured with Israel. They have actively denounced Israel’s offensive in Lebanon.
Iraq’s vice president on Monday accused Israel of carrying out “massacres” in Lebanon, the strongest criticism yet of the Jewish state by a top official of the U.S-backed Iraqi government.
Iraqi VP accuses Israel of ‘massacres’
“I condemn these aggressions and call on the Arab League foreign ministers’ meeting in Cairo to take quick action to stop these aggressions. We call on the world to take quick stands to stop the Israeli aggression.â€
Iraqi Prime Minister Denounces Israel’s Actions
They are voicing a definite dislike for Israel. True, they haven’t said Israel should be “wiped off the map” but their words are as strong as they can possibly be under an American occupation.
The Middle East is rife with hate of the USA and especially Israel. That’s been the case for years and years. So what’s the news?
What’s news is that US troops are over there. For years and years that was not the case. It is now.
It would be crazy if there weren’t Iraqis that hated the USA. After all, we invaded their country and have killed thousands of their people. Without looking at that in a proper context, it’s easy to get hate of us out of that.
I believe the context is irrelevant for the Iraqi father digging out the bodies of his family from under the rubble of what used to be his house.
So, just so I am absolutely clear of your point here: Are you arguing the chants of “Death to Israel” are not cause for worry?
August 4th, 2006 at 4:52 pmFor Truth,
Shut up Seixon, you dont even live here.
Ah, so now a person’s location determines whether or not they should be allowed to discourse with their own countrymen. How progressive. Hear that Brian Coughlan? You need to shut up because you don’t live in the US. Well, according to For Truth anyways.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:53 pmAlthough all of our opinions are valuable, to get a reality checi, carefully examine the poll at this site,
August 4th, 2006 at 4:55 pmhttp://www.usatoday.com/ news/ world/ iraq/ 2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm
click on the link in the article (Graphic: Iraqis surveyed)
Very interesting stuff.
RUCerious,
Your point is quite valid. But I hate to believe this statement — “Taking away the iron fist that kept them under control was a major geopolitical blunder” — means that the only way that stability can be achieved in the Arab Islamic world by having brutal monsters like Saddam Hussein rules over Arab states. But at this point, I must admit I am perplexed. I really don’t know what the answer is to achieving a peaceful, civilized Arab Islamic region. The liberation of Iraq presented a golden opportunity for the people of Iraq to create a democratic, civilized society. A brutal oppressor was removed, billions and billions of economic aid and development was poured into Iraq, the U.S. military provided security as a new democratic government was attempted to be established. And what has happened? Iraq has squandered this opportunity and fallen back into brutal civil conflict between Islamic sects, killing eachother over who holds the superior view of Allah and Mohammed. It’s all quite depressing. But what is the answer? Do we abandon the hope of seeing a democratic Arab Islamic world and instead throw our support to brutal dictators who can keep a lid on the sectarian violence and Islamist extremism? That thought is also depressing.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:55 pmExley,
Getting off the oil would surely produce more peace in that region. Once that region becomes geopolitically insignificant to the rest of the world, folks over there can go back to living in tent, throwing rocks at each other. Take away the resources, nothing to wage a war with.
And I do think the middle easterners are not ready for Democracy, they want to be in a state of perpetual war, just look at the last 3000 years, has it ever stopped? Maybe guys like Saddam know something about managing countries like Iraq that we don’t.
Plunking Isreal down in the middle of it all in 1948 sure didn’t help matters.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:01 pmGregor,
People in the gofernment in Iraq are definitely not enamoured with Israel. They have actively denounced Israel’s offensive in Lebanon.
As have many other world leaders, what’s your point? Iraqi officials aren’t allowed to have the same opinions as say… Spanish ones? Norwegian ones?
Iraq’s vice president on Monday accused Israel of carrying out “massacres†in Lebanon, the strongest criticism yet of the Jewish state by a top official of the U.S-backed Iraqi government.
Iraqi VP accuses Israel of ‘massacres’
Again, many people have died in Lebanon, so “massacre” is probably not all too strong a word to be using, and I’m sure it’s not the most controversial that has been used by world leaders, is it? Doubt it.
They are voicing a definite dislike for Israel. True, they haven’t said Israel should be “wiped off the map†but their words are as strong as they can possibly be under an American occupation.
Of course they voice a dislike for Israel - it’s written in their damn religious texts. The Koran says that no Muslim should be a friend with a Jew, less he be seen as a Jew. The Koran says that Jews are double-crossers and cheats. It would seem like a miracle for these guys NOT to dislike Israel.
In any case, as I pointed out, the current Iraqi government is not shoveling weapons and money to Hamas or Hezbollah, like Syria and Iran have been doing for decades. Until they do, Iraq’s leaders can have all the opinions in the world on Israel they want.
What’s news is that US troops are over there. For years and years that was not the case. It is now.
Where were you during 1991? The years after? We’ve had troops there for a long, long time. Perhaps not as many as now, but they were there. Who was it that Hezbollah killed in the 1980s? Was it or was it not around 200 American soldiers?
I believe the context is irrelevant for the Iraqi father digging out the bodies of his family from under the rubble of what used to be his house.
True, but the same could be said of all those civilians who were bombed in Japan by nukes in 1945. Hate is understandable in these situations, but only when the actions are not seen in a broader context.
So, just so I am absolutely clear of your point here: Are you arguing the chants of “Death to Israel†are not cause for worry?
As I already said, the sentiment of “death to Israel” is hardly new anywhere in the Middle East, so why worry all of a sudden that Iraqis have chosen to protest about it when Israel is bombing the hell out of Lebanon?
It is written into the religion of Islam to despise and distrust Jews. It seems that some people here are completely unaware of this and pretend that these sentiments crept up overnight.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:03 pmmeans that the only way that stability can be achieved in the Arab Islamic world by having brutal monsters like Saddam Hussein rules over Arab states.
Exley there is an answer. Gentle pressure and a good example go a long way. Spain, Portugal and Greece all military dictatorships in living memory and converted to democracy without a shot being fired.
There is an even better answer. Binding global law which punishes individuals not entire peoples. Roughly 60% of the global population now live in democratic regimes. We need a replay of Europe from 70’s - 90’s, but now global. Gradually winning the moral argument, drawing the noose tighter around the really unpleasant regimes and punishing the individuals who step seriously out of line. Boosting the elements of moderation at every possible juncture, regardless of their political stripe, as long as they accept the principle of democratic governance you are in. If you not, you are a pariah.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:04 pm[…] Think Progress […]
August 4th, 2006 at 5:04 pmIt is written into the religion of Islam to despise and distrust Jews. It seems that some people here are completely unaware of this and pretend that these sentiments crept up overnight.
Comment by Seixon — August 4, 2006 @ 5:03 pm
Have you read the Bible lately? Full to brimming with the exact same nonsense. Moderate, rational Christians just tune it out, as do moderate muslims.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:05 pmEXLey
There will never be a Democratic Islamic-Arab world over there. And we only care about that due to the oil in the ground. If there was no oil or Isreal, they would all be just like Africa, no threat to anyone else, eating each other alive, and the US would be on its merry way. Get over the thought of having happy Arabs in a democracy, just because there are some exceptions doesn’t mean anything. Places like Dubai are a mirage, and the Saudis like to play pretend friends due to all the money they make off of the US, they are slighly smarter than their neighbors. The minute Saudi Oil is dried up, or no longer needed, what do you think Saudi relations would be like?
August 4th, 2006 at 5:08 pmGross, Seixon is back. How demented must someone be to hang out with people who don’t respect or like him?
My new school offers classes in Arabic language. There several students taking the course. Children in a red, Bible-belt state are learning to speak Arabic, Mandarin Chinese and French, among others. I love the irony.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pmThe Middle East has been violent for over 5,000 years. Like a man who couldn’t find oil in Texas could change that with more violence? I know the neocons are ignornant, but this has been just plain ridiculous.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:14 pmNeocons see people marching in the streets and say, wow they are voicing their opinion and not getting shot. Mission accomplished.
Good! Job done. Can the troops come home now?
August 4th, 2006 at 5:16 pmBrian Coughlan,
I accept that gentle pressure and good examples do and would help. But is it enough? For 11 years, the UN passed resolution after resolution and imposed economic sanctions against Saddam Hussein to exert pressure on that regime and much of the world (including I am sure many of those who now frequent this site) lambasted the UN and the US for “starving children,” etc. (We know now that was false and it was Saddam Hussein who was diverting foreign aid and “Oil-for-Food” for his own personal use).
But I agree with you about “boosting the elements of moderation at every possible juncture” as we did the communist world in Europe in the 1970s and 80s. Carter and Reagan launched many non-lethal covert activities to aid anti-communist and democratic forces in Eastern Europe (providing printing presses, etc.) so that these democratic forces could disseminate their message.
The big distinction though between our actions in Europe in the 1970s-80s to defeat communism and the current struggle agains fundamentalist Islamism is that no matter how evil the Soviets and the Eastern Bloc were, at the very least, they never flew hijacked civilian airliners into office buildings in downtown Manhattan, killing thousands in the span of minutes. I don’t know if what worked against one type of enemy (the Soviets) would work in this current struggle. Do we have that kind of time? For another 9/11 is quite possible, and the next time it could be much, much worse.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:22 pmAs have many other world leaders, what’s your point? Iraqi officials aren’t allowed to have the same opinions as say… Spanish ones? Norwegian ones?
Comment by Seixon — August 4, 2006 @ 5:03 pm
::sigh:: Spain, Norway are not occupied by the US. Please.
This is a government that has the US seal of approval. For them to openly criticise Israel is to bite the hand that feeds them. That is not the case with Spain or Norway.
Has the Norwegian PM called Israel’s actions a “massacre”?
Also, you missed the Iraqi VP saying that Iraqis are “incited in brotherhood and solidarity”. I don’t know of any a Spanish or Norwegian high-ranking official to state anything like that.
We’ve had troops there for a long, long time. Perhaps not as many as now, but they were there.
I meant over there in Iraq. That was not the case before.
Hate is understandable in these situations, but only when the actions are not seen in a broader context.
Again, context is irrelevant to those being bombed, maimed, and tortured. Call it an irrational reaction. But as you pointed out, hate is understandable and will happen -which is the bottom line.
The comparison with either Germany or Japan does not hold up -those two countries officiallly surrendered and their leaders called for the fighters to lay down their arms.
so why worry all of a sudden that Iraqis have chosen to protest about it when Israel is bombing the hell out of Lebanon?
Well, if you don’t like what we worry about, you don’t have to stick around, you know. Since when are you so worried about what we think?
It is written into the religion of Islam to despise and distrust Jews.
It is written in the Christian Bible women are impure during that time of the month. are all Christians a bunch of misogynistic swines?
It seems that some people here are completely unaware of this and pretend that these sentiments crept up overnight.
That wasn’t my perception. Again, people are chanting “Death to America” when they (supposedly) should be grateful for the “gift” of freedom they were given -and in contradiction with the Bush administration narrative of Iraq. That is the point (I think) of the thread.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:25 pmFor another 9/11 is quite possible, and the next time it could be much, much worse.
Comment by exley — August 4, 2006 @ 5:22 pm
I couldn’t agree with you more. And I wonder what $300 billion and 2600 soldiers still alive could have bought us in terms of homeland security…
We wasted our resources on being offensive instead of using them to establish a viable defense… And I hope that that awareness is finally getting through to most Americans, even those who voted for Bush in 2004.
We need to be a united America again soon, or we won’t be an America at all.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:28 pmSeixon,
Ever get into Norwegian politics, just wonderin’.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:28 pmHave you read the Koran? Obviously not, as you are horribly ignorant to its contents. I’ll dig up all the texts from the Koran that back up what I have just said, but as I have just exposed you as the liar you are once again, I’m not expecting you to stick around.
Comment by Seixon
YOU asked for it….
005.018
YUSUFALI: (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
-QUR’AN
Translation for the stupid (Jews and Christians are not above everybody else… they are men just like everybody else…)
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
-QUR’AN
Translation for the stupid (Jews and Christians say they are your friends, but really only look out for their own.)
005.069
YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
-QUR’AN
Translation for the stupid (Muslims, Jews, Sabians, and Christians all are believers in GOD and righteousness will have no fear nor problems) … NOTE: except for when all these people kill each other all the time
005.046
YUSUFALI: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
-QUR’AN
Translation for the stupid (Jesus came to confirm the Law of GOD and provide guidance for believers in GOD)
005.078
YUSUFALI: Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.
-QUR’AN
Translation for the stupid (Jews cursed Jesus and rejected the Faith of David and Jesus because they disobeyed GOD and lived in excess)
August 4th, 2006 at 5:29 pmYup, the half Trillion dollars and 2500 dead servicepeople could have been used to seal and secure our borders here in the US. “Fighting them over there” nonsense doesn’t fly anymore.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:30 pmwhen when how?
August 4th, 2006 at 5:34 pmIn other words, if you’re friends with a Jew or a Christian, you are no longer a Muslim, but a Jew or a Christian.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:36 pmIn other words, if you’re friends with a Jew or a Christian, you are no longer a Muslim, but a Jew or a Christian.
Comment by Seixon
Sorry I already covered that one above… actually what it says is that Jews and Christians only pretend to be your friends, but really only look out for their own… read it again.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:37 pm“Fighting them over there†nonsense doesn’t fly anymore.
Comment by For Truth — August 4, 2006 @ 5:30 pm
I don’t think ‘fighting’ offensively ever does fly. But I know it’s the neocon way of life. Why I think it’s absurd when the Evangelicals tell those of us who reject religion that we are ‘evil’.