Bush Administration Invents New Excuse To Oppose Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Bush Administration Invents New Excuse To Oppose Embryonic Stem Cell Research
News stories today report that biologists have “developed a technique for establishing colonies of human embryonic stem cells from an early human embryo without destroying it.”
The Bush administration has repeatedly stated that it opposes expanded embryonic stem cell research because it would involve destroying human embryos. On July 18, when asked why President Bush opposed a stem cell bill, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow replied, “The simple answer is he thinks murder is wrong.” The next day, Bush vetoed HR 810:
Some people argue that finding new cures for disease requires the destruction of human embryos like the ones that these families adopted. I disagree. I believe that with the right techniques and the right policies, we can achieve scientific progress while living up to our ethical responsibilities.
Even though today’s news shows that embryonic stem cell research can be done without destroying human embryos, the administration still opposes it:
But Emily Lawrimore, a White House spokeswoman, suggested that the new procedure would not satisfy the objections of Mr. Bush. … Though Ms. Lawrimore called it encouraging that scientists were moving away from destroying embryos, she said: “Any use of human embryos for research purposes raises serious ethical questions. This technique does not resolve those concerns.”
This new excuse is hopelessly vague. Lawrimore provided no elaboration on what those “ethical questions” and “concerns” exactly were. As Dr. Robert Lanza, who led the breakthrough project, stated, “There is no rational reason left to oppose this research.”
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107 Responses to “Bush Administration Invents New Excuse To Oppose Embryonic Stem Cell Research”
While I am completely in favor of Embryonic Stem Cell research, I do not feel that the Federal government should be funding it. This type of research is morally wrong for many americans. We shouldn’t force them to pay for research they are against. Why not simply allow the free market to do the research, which they already are? We don’t have a law banning this research. This “big” fight is stupid as it is over whether we wants the feds doing this research. The answer is NO simply because many americans find it morally wrong. The fact that the free market will do it faster and more efficient should also matter.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:54 am“There is no rational reason left to oppose this research.â€
Like Bush needs a rational reason for anything - he talks to GOD.
Another famous guy had dealings with GOD:
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]
August 24th, 2006 at 10:54 amThis administration hates to admit when they are wrong. They will oppose this for a long, long time to come. They need to check with Focus on the Family to see where they should go next with this.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:54 am“There is no rational reason left to oppose this research.â€
Rational and reason are the key words here. The IRational Right doesn’t Reson very well.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:56 am“This type of research is morally wrong for many americans. We shouldn’t force them to pay for research they are against. ”
I wonder Roger_Roger, do the tax payers also pay for development of weapons of mass destruction like the cluster bombs? I’m sure many americans are against those too. And how much government money is being spent on religious activities? I’m sure it’s not ZERO.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:59 amRoger_Roger sez:
Excellent job of parroting the administration’s irrational stand on this issue, RR, but by parroting their stand, you also parrot their lack of rationale.
Given that embryonic stem cells can now be hervested from early embryos without destroying the embryo in question, is there a reason to be ‘morally opposed’ to this research? What is the reason now, since ‘murder (of blastocysts) is wrong’ is no longer a viable argument?
August 24th, 2006 at 11:00 amroger, roger - I so hope you NEVER have to experience the devastation of Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, quadriplegia, or any other disease that would benefit from the research of stem cells. So, what you are essentially saying is, its okay to fund the research and develoment of WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, that would take humanity out in an instant - rather than spend that money to SAVE HUMANITY.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:00 amRationality has nothing to do with these guys. They are making a final play to their base, Christianists. Bush will do anything to get votes and remain in power, that means ANYTHING. Time to change Congress and stop this dictator in the making.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:00 amI am just so sick of this administration. This should really be the dem motto, Aren’t you sick of republicans yet?
August 24th, 2006 at 11:01 amand they have the GALL to even use the word ETHICS?
August 24th, 2006 at 11:01 amRoger_Roger - I am morally opposed to the war in Iraq yet my tax dollars fund it.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:02 am“There is no rational reason left to oppose this research.â€
Rational thought is usually absent during wartime, and The War on Science is the leaset rational of them all by its very definition…
August 24th, 2006 at 11:02 amRoger Roger the government does a lot of things that are morally wrong toa lot of people. Sure a lot of people find Embryonic research to be morally wrong But I know many more people who find the death penalty morally wrong, or the war in Iraq, or the US possessing Nuclear weapons. Heck I know of people who find public education morally wrong and it is the reason they home school. Last year people thought the response to Katrina was morally insufficient, some were morally outraged that we responded at all. So at some point the government will do nothing if it does not do anything that someone somewhere finds morally wrong.
There is also a line of thought that the private sector will do the research better and more efficiently. People using this argument point to many developments that have come out of the private sector. However they neglect to also point out that often this private sector research is underwritten with public funds, it happens all the time. In this case I highly doubt the government is going to be doing the research, and that it will fund research labs and research universities to make it happen.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:05 amRoger_Roger posted the first comment on the article, and then left.
It looks like we’re the victims of yet another hit-and-run troll.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:08 amI think I’ve finally hit on a common thread for all of Bush’s policy decisions…
…he’s trying to reduce the global population through war, poverty, and disease.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:10 amIt looks like we’re the victims of yet another hit-and-run troll.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — August 24, 2006 @ 11:08 am
A troll that cuts and runs…mmmmm, who would have known?
August 24th, 2006 at 11:21 amI thought the President would be out today saying “See I told you so. I told you we didn’t need to harm these embryos”. But alas just another confusing policy stance, based on harmful politics, based on distorted religious beliefs.
On a side note, my sister has MS. MS is one of the diseases that could be helped (in the near term) by embryonic stem cell research. And while I love political debate…do you think we could speed this one along so that there might be a small chance of saving her life.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:23 amOpponents of stem cell research seem to believe that fertilized, unimplanted zygotes are worthy of special protection under the law. This is specious and scientifically unsupportable; they are merely clusters of barely differentiated tissue, at the point at which they can be harvested for stem cells.
The “slippery slope” argument is also provably wrong; Americans are not so morally bankrupt that they would ever condone the destruction of some human life to medically save others. If we were, we could long ago have started “harvesting” hearts, lungs, livers, kidneys, etc from homeless people & convicts (with a nod to Larry Niven for the warning).
August 24th, 2006 at 11:28 amRoger-Roger,
The free market is not especially good at financing or developing innovations whose primary purpose is to “promote the general wellfare”. That is a core purpose of government. Why do the neo-cons hate the constitution?
August 24th, 2006 at 11:28 amTh unknown here is the effect of extracting cells on the embryo. NPR had a pretty thorough report on this this morning.
It’s not a “vague” response being put forth by the WH.
C’mon TP. Give us the whole story.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:34 amIt has nothing to do with ethics or morality. Bush is just trying to make sure that Big Pharma gets top dollar for any cures that they come up with on their own.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:35 amWow, isn’t he tired of setting up a straw man yet?
August 24th, 2006 at 11:35 am#5 Yikes - AMEN TO YOUR POST!
August 24th, 2006 at 11:40 amComment by S.D. — August 24, 2006 @ 11:35 am
Could you imagine a world full of mysteriously ill folks who had cells extracted from them when they were embryos?
The process of extracting the cells is delicate and the side affects unknown.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:41 amMS is one of the diseases that could be helped (in the near term) by embryonic stem cell research.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:42 amRoger_Roger - I am morally opposed to the war in Iraq yet my tax dollars fund it.
Comment by joejoe — August 24, 2006 @ 11:02 am
No they don’t!
Your children and their children’s tax dollars will be paying for this one… and why not?
They are the ones that will receive all the benefits of the now peaceful Middle East.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:46 amThe DLC are frauds sez:
Actually, from the NY Times article:
August 24th, 2006 at 11:46 amWhats Next:
IF WE FUND STEM CELL RESEARCH….THE TERRORISTS WIN!!
August 24th, 2006 at 11:47 am#15- I agree. Bush has reduced the human population significantly. He must like to see people die.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:48 amstrong>Yikes…dam, you guys never miss a chance to throw in the hilter/bush mocking(s)…enough is enough…what on earth does this topic have to do with your radical/leftist/off base nazi crap? Dont you guys/gals get it yet? The vast population of americans DO NOT buy the Bush is a Nazi and Republicans want to kill everybody…..stay focused lefties!!! Mein Kampf can only be cited so many times on this blog/site….and if you think W is the only pres. that relies on his faith to make decisions you need to read some more (biographies) on OUR past leaders and not a genocidal maniac named Adolf.
Yikes…we must all contribute to the defense of this country….and any weapon can be interpreted as cruel and un-just by the likes of you “progressives”…
Roger_Roger hits it right on the head concerning the funding…and that many people believe this is a topic that is REALLY faith based whether you are a righty or a lefty….if these preliminary reports are accurate and stem cells can be harvested without destroying the embryo then we ALL win…..lets hope the early reports/studies are true….
TripMaster Monkey #6…Its not parroting its just a fact that many are opposed to this…..I am not as NEO as you may think…I agree with your 2nd point—there is no reason to morally oppose this new finding…..
madashell#7…roger, roger - I so hope you NEVER have to experience the devastation of Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, quadriplegia, or any other disease that would benefit from the research of stem cells.….
madashell….how many quadriplegics do you know that are running around now—because of stem cell research/science? If you have a list of people—please post it—-I am sure that will change many peoples minds….how about Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s?….I am not being facetious….if you know of people that have been cured b/c of stem cell research please tell……where are these people? I know that the potential is there…..but that is not enough for many people….for many the verdict has not come in yet…..
Ben#17…a close friend of mine is in the same boat as your sister…and I agree….but notice—you even stated “could”…….that is what is the problem for most people…..could…I hope “will” can replace “could”….
TripMaster Monkey #14…maybe its just that most cons/republicans have jobs that require them to actually do something other than sit and wait to be called Nazi-loving, war-hawking, racist A-holes as you “progressives” seemed to do so well???????
Juan C#16…I am not going to run….I am going to go back to work…
Peter Christian #19…do you understand the economic impact something like this could have on the bottom line of a company? the free market IS a great place for something like this……anyway—isnt it you guys that always state how the government screws things up???
August 24th, 2006 at 11:49 amThe vast population of americans DO NOT buy the Bush is a Nazi and Republicans want to kill everybody
Comment by *NEOCON* — August 24, 2006 @ 11:49 am
Most Germans didn’t get the whole Hitler wants to kill everybody thing either!
Just because a majority of people can’t see the forest through all the trees doesn’t mean the forest does not exist.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:00 pmThis is so much hooey, man has already mapped the RDNA with government approval.
What mankind might ought to worry about is nano assembly of the RDNA.
Blastocysts, given the new method, are no longer a wedge issue for the fauX moral Republicans.
Besides that blastocysts pale in comparison to possible future technological disasters that may occur from such nano [Atomic Level] assembly.
My soapbox =]
August 24th, 2006 at 12:01 pmWow, NEOCON. That was amazing. So much crap in just one post. Kudos!
August 24th, 2006 at 12:02 pm> As Dr. Robert Lanza, who led the breakthrough project, stated, “There is no rational reason left to oppose this research.â€
August 24th, 2006 at 12:05 pmBushco is immune to conventional reason, principled arguments, thoughtful discussion, alternative solutions, and essentially anything else that does not further their agenda of global hegemony and the accumulation of raw power… we need to take control of the House and Senate in Nov while there is still something left to salvage in our country…
I HOPE KARMA REALLY EXISTS - BECAUSE NEOCON IS DUE HIS COMEUPPANCE!
August 24th, 2006 at 12:06 pmThe vast population of americans DO NOT buy the Bush is a Nazi and Republicans want to kill everybody
Comment by *NEOCON*
No, but they do buy the fact that the GOP is corrupt and that a neo-cons are a hypocrisy. And the fact that the ‘Coulter’ [spiteful] Republicans are no longer fiscal. In effect, the GOoP actions speak snake while the GOoP words speak weasel.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:10 pmIf he is still opposed without embryonic destruction, are we to infer that he finds kidney and heart transplants morally wrong? What about knee and rotator cuff procedures which can sometimes use tendons and ligaments from cadavers?
August 24th, 2006 at 12:14 pm*NEOCON*
Okay from the top
So according to Roger_Roger’s arguement those who are that far left should therefore have the right to not pay taxes. After all, if I am morally opposed to guns, why should I pay for a military?
Except government funding should not be based on the religious qalms of the people. Sorry, if you don’t have any better argument then “My religion sez…” then why the heck should any Atheist follow the laws you have put into place?
How many people openly gained from the knowledge gained from cutting up corpses, back when that was still illegal? Or how about heart transplants? Or any other medical advance which at some point in our history was considered “Against the faith?”
Hey, you are pro war without much reason really, therefore you are a war hawk. You support guys like Buchanan all but wearing his scary ghost costume while yelling “White Power!” in your highest offices, and you have a nasty habit of supporting people who you know to have either comitted fraud (Delay) or what amounts to treason (Rove). Oh, and your stance on the civil rights of Americans (as evidenced by the howls that were not coming from the conservative camp when Bush started his illegal wire taps) is exactly the same stance as most dictator’s, namely less then pro. Indeed, you are pro torture provided it isn’t people who look like you. It isn’t like us “progressives” are being inaccurate here.
Free market is a very good means of developing a product, but if you want to make breakthroughs the university is where it happens. Without funding for it the universities don’t study it. Business wants a working new product today, universities just want to have an answer at some point.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:18 pm*NEOCON* misses the point that you cannot trust someone who thinks he talks to God!
August 24th, 2006 at 12:18 pmIsn’t his support for the Plan B pill destruction of a fertilized embryo?
August 24th, 2006 at 12:29 pmwhat on earth does this topic have to do with your radical/leftist/off base nazi crap? Comment by *NEOCON*
Allow me to answer you, Conjob. Correct me if I’m wrong, but just suppose we had done this years ago. Learned how a few more cells, perhaps, could have been attached to George Bush’s brain stem.
I mean, then we wouldn’t have an idiot dipshit making an absolute ass out of himself while occupying the highest office in the land.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:29 pmIf stem-cells are a life as suggested by those opposed to using them for research, why do they not oppose using humans for reasearch? I have participated in medical studies and have signed consent forms. But Pharmaceuticals have and do conduct research on people in Third World countries without any of them knowing it. Where is the similar outrage? Now they don’t want research even if no harm comes to the cells. Isn’t it amazing what a lack of knowledge can do? Scientific knowledge. Where would science and medical profession be if DaVinci didn’t use stolen cadavers against the Church and law? I like the idea proposed by a columnist for candidates sign a pro stem-cell research agreement just as they have signed no tax increase pledges. Fortunately Medical students have donated cadavers to learn anatomy and how to manipulate it. They will have mine if it passes the schools examination. I am not that far away from that time but not quite ready.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:40 pmI would like to throw my two cents into the ring regarding the free market argument.
Most businesses to not take on product lines that require more than 4 years to develop. Companies require return for investors in less than 7 years. If you take 4 years to develop a product, then 5 years for study and approval, and finally 1 year to market…you’re looking at 10 years. Very few investors will tolerate that kind of timing.
Government funding through NASA, NSF, NIH, DOD, and like Bruce Gorton said, funding through universities has led to many significant breakthroughs in the last 100 years. While I am not suggesting that private companies can’t complete the task. I am suggesting that I would like to increase the probability of success. I can’t think of any reason why someone would not want to increase the probability of success in this field when it WILL (that is for the person who didn’t like my use of the word COULD earlier) treat many of the most awful diseases that we face today.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:42 pmStem Cell Research funding is all about Big Pharma…not our rights…our rights dissapeared in the smoke of 911,Any intellectual synergistic discoveries of Universities and Brilliant students and professors who, WITH Federal Grants and fundings, would uncover and open the POSITIVE pandora’s Box of cures for debilitating diseases ..CURES NOT THERAPIES…i repeat CURES NOT THERAPIES—-As it is, a predatory and ruthless bottomline NEOCON agenda is moved forward by the Bush veto —Chemotherapy not the cure —-the ‘Constant Gardener’ Synderome if you will ….(movie) …..
A lifetime of Heart Meds not Stem Cell Heart Grafts (Heart Disease #1 Problem)
—Money - bottom line — Corporate Shares for Elites —and just a few of them ….
Granny and Children Languish in pain and sickness and death and these Pigs sit in back roomscutting up the Dollar Number Projections of CURE v. Therapy ….
Secondarily, Social Engineering…kill off by attrition a percentage of the baby boomers
August 24th, 2006 at 12:48 pmto avoid paying for any coming Social Security Geriatric crisis (brought on by neocon theft) — eliminate the ‘non warrior’class who may be holding 1960’s value hardwiring and political attitudes … you know Peace and Love and all the evil shit the Neo Cons say they are for …but are not —Cowards and Traitors all —-and Americans …riding and sliding into the fascist non complacency …..the trains are on time stupid …
but all of your intellectuals pals are in the camps —saving a place for you …
Good post John in number 46.
Why would the big Pharma want cures for disease, then poeple wouldn’t need to buy all those drugs anymore.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:54 pmyou cannot trust someone who thinks he talks to God!
Comment by Yikes — August 24, 2006 @ 12:18 pm
I Agree!
I was talking to God the other day and he said the same exact thing.
He said… “Lots of people think they are talking to me… but they are not… the voice that they hear is actually their own.”
“To think that their inner voice is coming from me is the height of egocentrism and… well… quite frankly crazy as all hell”
I said “Wow God… you mean people that think they are talking to you are self centered nutjobs?”
He said “YES”
August 24th, 2006 at 12:56 pmNEOCON
How can we find a cure when the research is still being performed? There IS no stem cell treatment yet, only research into the abilty that stem cells can be used to treat and cure such diseases. Is it morally wrong for all the funding we give to cancer research, AIDS research and the multitude of other diseases where animal testing is involved?
And I would love to know one of those people. That person would be my wife. Diagnosed with Parkinson’s 6 years ago. She’s now 41.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:14 pmSome people argue that finding new cures for disease requires the destruction of human embryos like the ones that these families adopted. I disagree.
God damn Bush and his lies. No one argues that finding new cures for diseases requires destruction of embryos, only that this is a promising avenue of research, and that it involves the destruction of embryos. There is a difference. Following Bush’s typical “reasoning” process, I could say, Some people argue that bringing freedom to Iraq requires the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians as collateral damage. I disagree.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:17 pmif the dems get the house and senate…let’s impeach the little prince.
Torture = OK
Indiscriminite Bombing = OK
Capital Punishment = OK
Stem Cell = NO
As an aside, I was listening to Saint Hannity and Anne Himmler-Coulter yesterday, and they sounds scared…….banging their war drums and trying to scare people and basically saying that if anyone other than a Neo-con gets elected, OBL will be running the country…….
August 24th, 2006 at 1:33 pmMore attempts to benefit the fat pharmaceutical friends of this administration. More cures = less drugs sold.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:35 pmG.W.SuperChrist 32…Germany and Hitler again???? Did you read my #31 post or not????….give me something else to sink my teeth into….please…..
Trinary Suka #37….No, but they do buy the fact that the GOP is corrupt and that a neo-cons are a hypocrisy. And the fact that the ‘Coulter’ [spiteful] Republicans are no longer fiscal. In effect, the GOoP actions speak snake while the GOoP words speak weasel.
Tri….switch the following items to correct your statement above…..
1)Democratic party for GOP
2)”todays liberals” for neo-cons
3)Franken Dems for Coulter Reps…ending with…no longer relevant
4)GOoP with Dems
Guess what tri? Many people will believe that just as easily as your original statment……point being? You are not telling me anything different from what all the “progressives” here are mimicking…..the republicans are the devil!!!!
Bruce Gorton …#40 From the top..
1) Not arguing for or with roger_rogers point….it gets too confusing when we bring other arguments into discussion….
2)religious qalms of the people? It is much more complicated then you lefties make it out to be….it is a question of morality….is it morally right to destroy life for the POTENTIAL of saving it?
3)…cutting up corpses, back when that was still illegal?….Horrible comparison Gordy…I do not know of too many medical advances were life is created for the sole purpose of harvesting….if you know any—please educate….I am always willing to learn…..
4)Pro war? No…I am just for going after the bad people in the world that want to kill americans…..and yes—-I do mean anywhere…….Buchanan? not on my team….Fraud and Treason? You Are talking about the democratic party, right?….. civil rights? What you call “violations†I call good policing and intelligence work….torture? interesting one……yeah—I am for extracting valuable information from someone….how draconian, huh?….. the university is where it happens? Yeah—dump more money into the liberals bredding ground…..seriously though—good point on schools—but it is capitalism that will drive the evolution and production of an item….with much less bureaucracy…
Yikes#41….it must be hard for you to trust anyone, huh? I thought it was the NEOCONS that sees man as being evil? and the lefties see him as all good?????
Joe Sixpack #43…YOU ARE THE PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHATS WRONG WITH THE LEFT…thanks for making my point….
John #46….blah blah blah…so big pharma and big business has been around for only six years?…..explain how the NEOCONS marketed this corner…..
Kill off americans so social security will be ok??? How crazy are you people here? Attrition? Americans? You lose all credibility with that statement…….
August 24th, 2006 at 1:41 pmYes, it may be morally wrong for many people, but those people don’t make up the majority of people that DO want the government to fund it.
Many does not equal majority.
Many people like to collect stamps, but a majority of people don’t
August 24th, 2006 at 1:41 pmWTF is NEOCONVICTS PROBLEM?
August 24th, 2006 at 1:46 pmIt’s more about power and ego than cure and remedy. George Bush is never wrong. Never. Even at the cost of a country, a nation, a way of life, a world, a planet, and life itself. This man’s ego is infinite like the universe and God has been remade in the image of a man who will never know humble, nor error. We will all be made to suffer for his mistakes and judgment.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:49 pmNeoconvicts seems to think things are just dandy - he refuses to learn ANYTHING from history…if he doesn’t see how this country is sliding into fascism please note the following:
14 characteristics of FASCISM
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:49 pm2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.
3. Identification of enemies/ scapegoats as a unifying cause.
4. The supremacy of the military/ avid militarism.
5. Rampant sexism.
6. A controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together.
9. Power of corporations protected.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.
It’s more about power and ego than cure and remedy. George Bush is never wrong. Never. Even at the cost of a country, a nation, a way of life, a world, a planet, and life itself. This man’s ego is infinite like the universe
my friend, you just described a psychopath/sociopath.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:50 pmThe latest issue of Time has an excellent letter to the editor suggesting that we “think of embryos used for research as troops being sent to war. Some must die so that others can live.”
The President is absolutely fine with fully formed humans being sacrificed for the greater good but not 16 cell tissue clusters… how does he reconcile these two contradictory positions and why does the American public let him get away it?
August 24th, 2006 at 1:51 pmIf this isn’t bait and switch.. Just keep everyone preoccupied with this horseshit while rummy, cheney and the wolf plan strategy for the up and coming election process. Nobody is lookin. Prepare the bomb, rig the voting machine, pass a few back door laws, etc….
August 24th, 2006 at 1:52 pmDLC,
Bush has cells removed everytime he falls off his bike. It hasn’t affected him at a……..oh wait, maybe this is a problem.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:52 pmG.W.SuperChrist 32…Germany and Hitler again???? Did you read my #31 post or not????….give me something else to sink my teeth into….please…..
Comment by *NEOCON* — August 24, 2006 @ 1:41 pm
You know what they say - if DAS BOOT fits…
August 24th, 2006 at 1:55 pmAgain, I’ve said it before (on other blogs and places)… religious right are, for reasons that I will /never/ understand, more concerned about us killing a small clump of non-developed cells (which isn’t even going to happen anymore) than curing the life of a fully living human being.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:56 pmJeff …#49…you did read I was not being facetious? well-I was/am not….my point was/is that many people promote stem cell (research/science) as the cure all—-without—-and there is a big without (I hope you can agree)—-WITHOUT explaining that nothing has be proven…..nothing has been studied……nobody has been saved…..(i hope we can say—yet)……the left promotes W’s stance as being against medical advances because he is a religious guy—-its more than that—–I know I will get some hits on this—–he is a moral guy against the creation of life for the sole purpose of ending it to possible save someone elses…..this is not the thinking of a religious wacko…..it is the thinking of many americans……
And of course I am for stem cell research—just without killing a life to save a life…..(please dont hit me up on the pre-emptive war on this point any of you “progressives”)
Is it morally wrong for all the funding we give to cancer research, AIDS research and the multitude of other diseases where animal testing is involved?….no…remember I am a labeled “NEOCON”….so I belive in animal testing….some here call it animal torture……I call it research for saving HUMAN lives….I see a big difference in using rats then creating a human life for one purpose only—to harvest cells…….
August 24th, 2006 at 1:57 pmTheir words mean nothing.
August 24th, 2006 at 1:59 pmIf you combine their credibility as individuals, it still adds up to ZERO.
The Tone-meister Snow-ball takes the freaking cake . . . what a joke.
It’s really too funny they hired this dude from fox newz.
But when you think about it, that’s where junior’s administration belongs and where they feel the most comfortable . . . on fox newz.
I mean, doesn’t being seen on fox newz make you a lying slime-bag?
Oh yeah, it IS their video home. Two peas in a pod, made for one another.
a cluster of cells a human life????? As a woman, I would have to say FY! That so called life is not a life UNTIL IT IS VIABLE, i.e., breathing on its own OUTSIDE THE WOMB. You know, the ones who are the victims of WAR.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:00 pmThese retards don’t care about ethics, it is a front they put up to control, and frightenly, to stop the curing of diseases.
You know, I try to talk to these Republican bloggers and thier commenters, but the more I talk to them, the more I realise that America has been hijacked by mental retards. And the Republican party is just retards. Even calling them retards is an insult to retards because the retards I have met are extremely nice people. These guys just seem to be borderline mental retards with types of mental illnesses that make them extremely dangerous. And I’m not being insulting at all, I am serious. America has been hijacked by retards. The Republican party are retards.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:01 pmSUSA - I would call them sociopaths and plain NONTHINKERS.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:02 pmOnce again, many does not mean the same thing as majority.
Many people ski every winter in Mammoth. A majority of people do not.
A maojrity of Americans support stem cell research.
A wise man once said:
“The needs of the many, out weighs the needs of the few”
August 24th, 2006 at 2:05 pm57.
Where did you get that information on Fascism?…there are things there that I haven’t seen before, but make complete sense.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:05 pm“Once upon a time Conspiracy Theorists insisted the world was round.”
August 24th, 2006 at 2:05 pm“No rational reason not to support this”. Unfortunately, rational thinking is not one of Bush’s strong suits.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:10 pmNext: ‘Man arrested on 10,000,000 counts of MURDER for wet dream.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:16 pmHi
John #46 again —-thanks for your positive comments –
Once again Please PASS ON THE INFORMATION POSTED IN #46 and #62 to the BLOG community —- this is a story being covered up and reworked in the haze of hypnotic fake media outputs —– People who are sick or will be getting sick and dont know it yet are being screwed by this agenda …do you know anyone? Granny, Child…mom dad sister brother friend …sure you do …pass those posts on …they are open intellectual property now ….and the third part of the TRIFECTA for Bush and the NEocons ( the superficial reason ) is of course
POLITICAL PANDERING TO THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT –Hail Satan you bitches!!!
President Bush has vetoed stem cell legislation. With the first veto of his Presidency, he has sold out to the religious right and dashed hope for millions of Americans suffering from diseases such as Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, Multiple Sclerosis, cancer, heart disease and diabetes.
It’s not only the money it’s social engineering —waste the baby boomer generation so they will not have the burden of a geriatric society -disporportionate warrior class- after they rip off the social security funds….also to protect the intellectual property of their crony international pharmaceutical cartels ….impeach the criminals —
It’s a smoke screen diversionary issue that it is the religious right’s fault that stem cell research legislation failed this week after President Bush’s veto. A Clever and brutal ruse …. the religious right are the pre programmed automatons spewing the right wing crap of war and killing …. the religious right are guilty of many things including allowing themselves to be used as a smoke and mirrors deflection of the massive backlash coming becasue of the real cowards and traitors that steal elections and kill children of color by the thousands….They have ignored 72% of the American people, bi-partisan majorities in both houses of Congress, and our nation’s leading scientists. They have dashed hope for millions of Americans suffering from diseases such as Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, Multiple Sclerosis, cancer, heart disease and diabetes.
Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and Pat Robertson are getting fatter and richer from controversy like this ….
August 24th, 2006 at 2:17 pm74. Don’t forget, every female “murders” her eggs once a month.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:17 pmNEOCON “.it must be hard for you to trust anyone, huh?”
Are you suggesting that EVERYONE thinks they talk to GOD? HUH? I trust anyone that uses rational thought - unfortunately, in Politics as with Religion, rational thought is not common.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:24 pmPASS these On —- silence NEOCON
POSTS —- #46—#62—#75
Peace …I’m ouutttt !
August 24th, 2006 at 2:30 pmNEOCON…. please try to make your comments brief and salemt. i turned you off after the fifth paragraph. brevity is the sign of cogent thought!
August 24th, 2006 at 2:31 pmNeocon.
You are morally bankrupt. You will scream for the rights of a single cell, but when it is a whole living breathing thinking human? Who cares?
Torture, here is the problem with torture, those who are tortured spill their guts and say everything they think the torturer wants to hear. People lie. In the end it doesn’t work because of this, there is a reason why testemony gathered by torture is not accepted in any civilised court system.
Oh yes, and good intellegence gathering, well lets see here, this good intellegence gathering violates a law which allows 72 flipping hours before a warrant, yes that is such a draconian measure now isn’t it? Oh and of course freedom of the press is really protected when you can just check the phone records of your reporters. Lets not even get into the mess which is spying on your political opponents.
Buchanan? He is your boy. Republican to the core and he isn’t the only one. You call yourself a Republican, best you get to know about who you are represented by.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:35 pmmadashell
You forgot the first right any fascist system attacks; the right to privacy.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:37 pm‘Man arrested on 10,000,000 counts of MURDER for wet dream.”
Christians are holy and do not masterbaite. Can I get a ya right!!!!
August 24th, 2006 at 2:37 pmJeff -
Just wondering - did you actually read what this blog is about? An American team of scientists headed by Dr. Lanza have found a way to create stem cell lines without killing a couple of cells that will one day become a human being (early embryo).
Scientists have discovered that they can extract one cell from an embryo (similar to genetic screening) and make the one cell into a viable stem cell line. The embryo survives. In other words, scientists have found a moral way to create stem cell lines.
So, all you ultra conservatives out there - should be very excited about this. After all, if Bush wouldn’t have opposed the research that he deemed immoral in the first place - scientists may not have discovered this moral way to extract stem cells.
Why are so many conservatives still fighting this issue? Seriously, somebody give me an answer here?
August 24th, 2006 at 2:39 pmSara …your answer is #46 –#62 and #75
August 24th, 2006 at 2:42 pmIt’s great comfort to realize that our brilliant president, when confronted with scientific facts, still relies on his “gut” as the final test for the “decider.”
August 24th, 2006 at 2:46 pmIf he hasn’t realized that his gut is full of shit by now, the rest of us do!
Thanks Blowinginthewind.
46 might be on target. 62 & 75 - sad yet … funny.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:48 pmConservatives are still fighting this issue because they need it to get their right-wingnut base to the polls.
August 24th, 2006 at 2:57 pm“#62 he is a moral guy against the creation of life for the sole purpose of ending it to possible save someone else’s…..this is not the thinking of a religious wacko…..it is the thinking of many Americans……”
This is point that gets overlooked way too much. Scientists are NOT creating life to destroy it for research. These are left over cells from fertility clinics. If the NeoCons are so damned concerned about life being wasted, perhaps we should shut down the fertility clinics. To me that is the root of the immorality. People are so obsessed with having children that when they can’t have one naturally, they use science to get one. Perhaps these ‘religious’ people should just accept that if they can’t get pregnant naturally, perhaps ‘God’ doesn’t want them to have children.
Finally, we decide to donate our bodies to science or to be an organ donor. Now blastocysts aren’t developed and therefore can not make a rational decision about what happens to it. It is the same with children though. Parents make the decision as to what happens to there child in the event of death. Now it seems to me that the parents of the blastocysts can make the same decision. They are the ones responsible in my mind. If they go in to have the scientist make them pregnant, then if they make 1000 blastocysts, they should have to raise them all or make a decision as to how they are disposed. Most will donate the cells to science for research.
August 24th, 2006 at 3:04 pmPagan American
Well said.
August 24th, 2006 at 3:09 pmThanks Sara
#46 #62 and #74 ( I messed up it should have been #74) should be put out there for all to get that much needed Epiphany MOMENT in the HAZE of media disninfo ..Big PHARMA —TRILLIONS IN PATENTS —Whatever it takes !!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks and right on Pagan American …. i speak in solidarity against the Religious right wingers as quoted by the illustrious and talented voice of the people JOHN in #74 —Hail Satan Bitches ! Santa Claus is Karl Rove in drag —–
Love People not ideas
bitw
August 24th, 2006 at 3:29 pmHi …I am John from Number 46 …remember me …..NEOCON ..is an empty suit —-
THE PATENTS ARE WORTH TRILLIONS ——THE PATENTS ARE WORTH TRILLIONS —-THE PATENTS ARE WORTH
TRILLIONS
California is known worldwide as the tech leader in many areas …. Silicon valley …. Hollywood Film Tech……Special FX etc
….the Voters HERE in California passed Propostion 71 to Begin a STATE Sponsored Policy of Stem Cell Research Funding
….. the people of America are lulled into thinking, well, California is doing it …we will all benefit pretty soon anyway from Stem
Cell Research …California is on it …… we can forget about it …it will happen now…….this is a Flase Hope and Understanding
that is being deliberately peddled by th NEOCON leadership of California to further their agenda …and here is how they are
doing it :
THE Voters HERE in California passed Propostion 71 to Begin a STATE Sponsored Policy of Stem Cell Research Funding …..
Then HERE COMES THE Life Legal Defense Foundation which is the SAME EXACT organization which sponsored the
RECALL Governor Gray DAVIS campaign which swept SCHWARZENEGGER into office ……The Life Legal Defense
Foundation has brought what
ICOC Chair Robert Klein II (Independent Citizens Oversight Committee (ICOC) STEM CELL POLICY FACILITATORS , says are
“groundless lawsuits†…… to HALT the STEM CELL RESEARCH funding the Voters Voted For and the SAME
ORGANIZATION that GOT GRAY DAVIS RECALLED and SCHWARZENEGGAR HANDED THE GOVERNORSHIP (which
everyone here in CALI knows was an ENRON BLACK OP OVERSPILL –the fake California Energy Crisis of 2002) The Life
Legal Defense Foundation is suing to stop the sale of $3 billion in Proposition 71 embryonic stem cell research bonds …..
SCHWARZENEGGAR now says …â€Oh I am for stem cell research now†..here is a measly $150 million to show my good faithâ€
…Bullshit …. Bullshit …and more Austrian Ca-ca —–the same Organization that CONVIENTLY PLACED THE GUVERNATER
in office is now suing him in a FAKE lawsuit to stop the Brilliant VOTER APPROVED California State Policy of FUNDING STEM
CELL RESEARCH ……and he is gladly obliging them in the
WHY ….BIG PHARMA …Read POST 46 …TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS in dollars recouped in THEAPIES NOT CURES
…THERAPIES NOT CURES …that is Soylant Green Here folks —if you are a blogger….if you are active—- PLEASE get this
Particular story out ….I have Cancer and I know this will help people like me ……GET THIS STORY out ….Big PHARMA is the
enemy in collusion with the NEOCON agenda ….they want the PATENTS —THE PATENTS ARE WORTH TRILLIONS —–they
are stretching things out in COURT till they secure the Research and the PATENTS and see who is helping them ?
Here is the LINK …please pass this POST and story on
http://www.etopiamedia.net/ emmnn/ pages/ emmnn67-5551212.html
DOES BIG PHARMA LINE Schwarzeneggar’s Pockets …Hell YES …
http://www.zmag.org/ content/ showarticle.cfm?ItemID=6382
For the success of the STEM CELL RESEARCH FUNDING …for our families, friends and loved ones …..tell the people about
this bullshit in California …BOLG on and PASS THIS ON (also POST #46)
Derail their secret agendas piece by piece …..
Comment by John — August 24, 2006 @ 1:53 pm
August 24th, 2006 at 3:36 pmCopy these quickly they edited them off the blog ..check out #90 —they changed out the LINKS I Put in the POST …
Here is the LINK …please pass this POST and story on
http://www.etopiamedia.net/ emmnn/ pages/ emmnn67-5551212.html
DOES BIG PHARMA LINE Schwarzeneggar’s Pockets …Hell YES …
http://www.zmag.org/ content/ showarticle.cfm?ItemID=6382
August 24th, 2006 at 3:42 pmYikes #76 – I am saying that there are MANY people in this country that have strong religious beliefs…..and each of them define (in their own way) the manner in which they “speak to godâ€â€¦.rational thought comment? atheist I take it?
John…#77….another example of the fascist-lefties……post#57 item 11
John…#74…especially the last paragraph—-don’t know whether to laugh or think you are absolutely insane…..
John blowing?…whatever…#90…got it now—you are insane…..
meg_mac…#78…okgeniushaveyounoticedIamcarrying-onseveral conversationsatonce…..you might want to address John #74 and/or #46, #90 (blowing?)
Bruce Gorton…#79…did I ever say I was for the death penalty or something? I have only stated that I was for pre-emptive military force…..there is a difference between men volunteering for service and a fetus…you said it by the way-“whole living breathing thinking humanâ€â€¦that means they made a decision…a decision to join the military or a decision that led to their sentencing of/on death row….
Torture? I prefer to call it extracting information…. I may believe in the use of it….but I can see the reliabilty points you make….
Intelligence gathering….phone records, wire taps, and spying on your political opponent (did I miss this one? Can you elaborate?) will be settled in the courts…..whether I/you like it or not……I think its ok…you think it is worse than terrorism……
Buchanan? Kinda sick of him….I don’t think I voted for him… I am from CT…you know—where Lamont is running against Bush this fall for the senate seat….
Pagan American #87…These are left over cells from fertility clinics… those cells are taken from human embryos…that’s where the debate begins…not ends……
August 24th, 2006 at 4:14 pmZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
August 24th, 2006 at 4:21 pmNeocon -
At post 64 you reiterate the entire point of this post. You said “And of course I am for stem cell research—just without killing a life to save a life…..”
That was GW’s original argument. The point of this conversation is that they have found a way to get the stem cells without Harming the embryo. It can still be implanted in a woman and survive full term.
This post describes the false logic that the President uses when he says he is still against Embryonic stem cell research even though he knows the embryos will be unharmed.
It sounds to me like you are making the same illogical argument as the President. Against it when kills…against it when it doesn’t kill.
I of course don’t think that 8 cells outside of a uterus is a life, but that is for a different argument on a different post.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:20 pmIgnore NEOCON — he is still a kindergartner …time for your nap —-
quoting meg_mac’s brilliant response ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZNAZI
August 24th, 2006 at 7:09 pmhey the Bush Presidency raises “serious ethical questions” but he has no qualms about continuing his presidency.
August 24th, 2006 at 8:28 pmBenyou are right (about this post)…but when all the lefties start ranting about “it” not being a life anyway…the discussion turns….
blowinginthewind
meg_mac
cute…and a natural response for middle school students….see ya later…..
August 24th, 2006 at 9:02 pmNext: ‘Man arrested on 10,000,000 counts of MURDER for wet dream.
Comment by wisedup
Truly inspired, wisedup.
August 24th, 2006 at 9:30 pmSo, once again, Bush is incapable of truly defending his illogical standpoint and goes back to his old strategy of “say something vague and then legislate on it”. No surprises there.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:10 pmI love the way Snow says ‘The President thinks murder is wrong’, whilst referring to a President that has started a war that has killed 100,000 Iraqis, 2600 Americans, and 400 Britons.
Such a pro-life president!
Go the Death President!
August 25th, 2006 at 5:05 am…more distractions from Iraq, the so called “war on terrorâ€, and Bush’s failed foreign policy
August 25th, 2006 at 5:24 am*NEOCON*
Wars kill people you idiot. It is not something to take lightly, like it is some sort of game and you can bet those kids you probably refer to fondly as collateral damage didn’t vollunteer. Of course seen as they aren’t white Americans you don’t really give a stuff do you? They aren’t really people after all.
Pre-Emptive war, do you know what that even is? It is a war without a good reason. It is a war that is based on maybes, guesses, and lies. It is a bullshit war. If you have a good reason to go to war it is no longer pre-emptive, it is justified.
August 25th, 2006 at 7:55 amBruce Gorton #103…War? A game? That’s how you lefties want to paint anybody that supports the idea of going after these killers BEFORE they hit us…..I guess you are ok with the John Kerry/lefty/lib approach—whereas a “fast response and deployment of necessary materials†will be used AFTER a terrorist act—-???? There is no rationale to that…
you can bet those kids you probably refer to fondly as collateral damage didn’t vollunteer.
Of course seen as they aren’t white Americans you don’t really give a stuff do you?
Gordy—maybe there is someone else posting as *NEOCON* but you are way off base….I understand the sacrifices that Americans make in/through war—via family members AND friends—–so get off your dam soapbox and quit with “the racist doesn’t give a crap about americans dying†diatribe(s) that so many of you “progressives†seem so adept at—via mimicking your college professors…..
Pre-emtive war? This is great…..you take a text book defintion…Relating to or constituting a military strike made so as to gain the advantage when an enemy strike is believed to be imminent…and bastardize it for your agenda…..I get it…you are against the war….I get it…you are against Bush…..I get it….you hate more than the conservatives you speak about…..I get it….you take facts and twist them so as to align with your personal leftist beliefs…..
Justified war? If you know anything about history—-America could have “chosen†not to “get involved†in every single war….do the research…think about cause and effect…think about Americas previous options and you will see…
August 25th, 2006 at 9:13 amImmenent strike like bloody Iraq was a immenent strike? Every reason has been shot down.
Okay, wars in American History with other countries:
1: American revolutionary war: Pretty damn obvious as to why America got involved in that one.
2: 1812: America got involved in it mainly due to the fact that England had not declared peace or that the revolutionary war was over.
3: Spanish American War: Based off of a lie, true enough.
4: WWI: America got involved because the Germans were sinking American ships. Pretext pretty damn well laid.
5: WWII: America got involved because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. As Hitler’s Germany was allied to Japan, Hitler declared war on America soon after. Read that again Nazi Germany declared war on America, you didn’t have much damn choice but to fight the Nazis.
6: The Korean War: America was allied to South Korea, and entered as allies against the Communist north.
7: The Vietnam War: As above.
8: The first Gulf War: America was allied to Kuwait and had a treaty with Kuwait stating that it would move in to the defence of Kuwait.
This is just off of the top of my head dickwad, so don’t come to me with your “America could have just stayed out of every war in history” bullcrap. Read your own bloody history some time.
August 25th, 2006 at 11:23 amBruce Gorton#105
Unlike what nearly all of the libs on this site do—I will explain and give detail/fact with my response…so please bare with me bruce gorton since you did not do the research…
1.)American revolution….Americans were paying a fraction of the taxes that the citizens in England were paying….the citizens of america cry foul play when asked to help fund their own defense (fr and Ind war)—”we dont have any representation you dont have the right to tax”…..hum? nearly 1/3 of the polulation was not only against breaking away—they actually joined the royalist fight against the “rabble”….another 1/3 was “neutral”….there was a very small few that were actually willing (and chose) to fight (and even these are questioned with Paines famous “The summer soldier and the sunshine patriotâ€)….the options? as MANY citizens of the time cried—-King George is not that bad—monarchy is much better than an uncontrollable “democracry” with demigods and iconoclasts…..Delaware rarely sent anybody to the cont congress…..penn was controlled by quakers—-that believe it or not werent so “kind” and “helpful” to the american cause….there was little unity in breaking away—–and many in the south referred to this as massachusetts fight…regardless—-if the American citizens would have been content with their local ELECTED officials and the colonial governor—history would be different…america did not “have†to fight off a King and Parliament…they just needed to pay their taxes…no?
2.)War of 1812…All america had to do was escort its merchant ships with naval vessals on their trips to europe to stop the impressment of sailors…opps, Thomas Jefferson decimated the navy so this was not an option…ok…all america had to do was re-call all its citizens west of the ohio river valley, opps they were making too much money…all america had to do was stop calling for an invasion of canada to retake one of its original lands…opps, the warhawks were all about the land($)…..america did not “have†to fight impressment or native americans in the western territories…islolation, bruce?
3.)Spanish American war…we agree on something…
4.)America could have chosen other trade routes…were the germans sinking ships in the northern pacific at this time? If so, please explain…America was not the economic power house that it would become after WWII—-so—-it was not as reliant upon Europe for trade as many would think…come on you should know this one—–ISOLATIONISM was phrase of the time…clearly america did not “have†to goto to war…appeasement and isolationism saves lives, don’t they?
5.)WWII Hitler offered america a deal…if followed america would be spared…they might live under das fuhrer but they would not “have†to goto war…unfortunatley “lend-lease†basicallly meant that america was aiding germanys enemies…if no “lend-lease†who knows? Again…appeasement saves lives, doesn’t it? We did not “have†to stop a genocidal maniac…
6.)Korean War…as you all think…communism isnt that bad…let south korea fall…we did not “have†to attempt to stop the spread of communism…
7.)Vietnam…as above…
8.)Kuwait…you are big on alliances, huh? I would certainly want you on my team—but that is nowhere near reality—don’t alliances mean you are fighting other peoples wars? We did not “have†to stop a mad man from turning the middle east into even more of a hell-hole then it is, did we? We did not “have†to attempt to stabiliaze an area that contains one of the worlds most valuable resources, did we? (yes oil, oil, oil, oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Now, I know that you might be saying these above points are foolish and unfounded (if you want me to cite anything in particular you will have to give me a moment to search my library)…but the point is…
We could remain isolationists—or even worse act as appeasers…what history has shown us is that neither of these two work when you are a world power and there are problmes that must be addressed……you must step in…you must act…does that make sense? We must act…we “have†to act…
And I did all that without calling you a nasty name……it was not too hard….I am not a hater believe it or not…..but you guys…wow….hatred spews forth!!!!
August 25th, 2006 at 12:48 pmTHE Voters in California passed Propostion 71 to Begin a STATE Sponsored Policy of Stem Cell Research Funding …groundbreaking—-
THE NEOCON DEATH AGENDA ‘Life Legal Defense Foundation’ (SAME EXACT organization which sponsored the RECALL Governor Gray DAVIS campaign handing SCHWARZENEGGER the California Governorship) immediatley FILED “groundless Lawsuits” according to the Independent Citizens Oversight Committee (ICOC)
This Life Legal Defense Foundation is suing to stop the sale of $3 billion in Proposition 71 embryonic stem cell research bonds …remember the Voter Approved kind —
By a Typical SCHWARZENEGGAR ‘Go LEFT’ Pander Play move …â€Oh I am for stem cell research in KALEE__FOORN__YA†….Here take this measly $150 million you Leftists Girlie Bags and Report that worldwide you Left WIng uncompassionate Media â€
Sorry GUV—-Not enuff nor near what the Prop 71 Voters demanded and passed in our ‘Democrapcy’ (political Pandering of Course )
ONE FOR BIG PHARMA …the Elites —–you will never know their names—–…
TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS in dollars recouped in THEAPIES NOT CURES —Patents that will last for decades and be valued at Trillions of Dollars worldwide —Therapies NOT CURES must be preserved at any cost to the public by BIG PHARMA until Public Funding will be DELAYED, Foot Dragged—UNTIL—–Research is FIRST accomplished by the ELITE BIG PHARMA using Embryonic Stem Cells —then the PATENTS FOR THE CURES OUR SAFELY IN THE BANK ACCOUNTS of THE BIG PHARMA
The NECON AGENDA is to stretch out the lawsuits in COURT till they secure the Research and the PATENTS —this is the SECRET AGENDA —-
Here is the LINK …(CUT AND PASTE THE ENTIRE ADDRESS) http://www.etopiamedia.net/ emmnn/ pages/ emmnn67-5551212.html
DOES BIG PHARMA LINE Schwarzeneggar’s Pockets …well…Yeahhh! …(CUT AND PASTE THE ENTIRE ADDRESS)
http://www.zmag.org/ content/ showarticle.cfm?ItemID=6382
It’s so obvious my friends —-but mostly the public is not hip to the Governorship of California POST in the NEOCON column (remember the polls close last here in CALI in federal elections so the governor can still call it for whoever they FIX the elections for) CALI —important place —SCHWARTZY —-taking from BIG PHARMA —Oh Yeahhhh!!!!!
August 25th, 2006 at 12:52 pmOkay first off: I am a liberal. I have read up on history and guess what genius, communism didn’t work. Doing the same stupid thing over and over again hoping for different results is not what liberalism is about.
As to the sinking of ships, that is pretext, that at least gave America a reason to get involved in WWI. America developing seperate trade routes? To where? World War One. Everyone with an interest in trade in Europe was involved, so tell me, where would America have developed alternate trade routes to Europe? Drop trade altogether? Even then America relied on a certain amount of import and export for its economy.
Now onto WWII: Hitler offered America the ability to instantly surrender itself to him or he would go to war with it. Well, that doesn’t sound like much of a choice to me, particularly seen as Hitler was never known for keeping his promises. There was no real choice.
Next up: Alliances. Guess what, if America signs a treaty, and an alliance is a treaty America has to honour that treaty otherwise nobody would ever sign a treaty with America. When Kuwait was invaded it gave America enough pretext for a war, and it was no pre-Emptive war. Hell I would argue that during the war when Israel bombed the shit out of Egypts troops mounting on its borders that was no pre-emptive war, it was a pre-emptive strike but it was clear that the intention to invade was there and no amount of negotiation was going to change that.
But when Bush took the unprecedented step in American history of launching a pre-emptive war against Iraq, he took a lot of guess work, some outright lies, and fiddled evidence into his arguments. He wanted that war so badly, but it needn’t have happened. War is expensive, it is the worst thing you can do and as such should always be a last resort, it should not be something you enter into lightly on maybes and could bes. It is something you enter into only when you are absolutely sure there is no alternative and that the threat is there.
Bush didn’t even really try to find an alternative in Iraq. Nor would you have, with your tough guy idealogy and dreams of blowing up little kids to scare the fear of America into your enemies, you still agree with what he did. That is why I call you a hypocrit when you claim to hold human life sacred.
We are seeing the same crap being spread about Iran now. Tell you what, five years ago and I would have believed you, but I have seen what has happened since then. I have seen America turn from the land of the free, where Atheists are accepted as Americans, where it is okay to be a liberal, to what you have now, NeoNazi propaganda where the Jews have been replaced with the left. Where no attempt at understanding what the left actually is has been made.
Where a opponent in a debate is automatically a “Hater” or a “Moonbat.” Where it is worse to be a “Liberal” then to be a child molester. Where disagreement and thought are termed weakness, and careless disregard for ones duty is strength. Where a president who has spent more days off in his reign then any president on record before him has, is termed a hard worker. Where you have your country being run like a company by a man who has never run a successful company.
Where it is more important to have a PR blitz on Katrina then it was to help the victims of Katrina. Where the President on 9/11 was praised for his strength, when what he really did was run and hide. He adressed the nation from a bunker. A president who was praised for his courage, and yet has never trully admitted that he has been wrong on specific policies. This is an America where a patriot is a person who is willing to sacrifice everything his country stands for just to be kept safe.
The bill of rights is more then just a damn piece of paper, and that is something you will never understand.
August 25th, 2006 at 7:30 pmGordy—Good…I am glad we agree that communism is/was a dead end….but you missed my point—America could have remained neutral and just let the cards fall we they may have….you must admit…without Americas military build-up (post WWII) communism would have survived and spread much further than it did…
where would America have developed alternate trade routes to Europe? Drop trade altogether?…..yes….but again…america could have done something other than take military action….or supply those that were involved in war…
Hitler offered America the ability to instantly surrender itself to him or he would go to war with it….good…I am glad you are starting to see things clearly…but here too, If america was not involved in trade with Hitlers enemies AND/OR allowed all the isolationists and anti-war factions to steer american policy—-the world would be different….
Alliances…again…isolationists and anti-war (pacifist, too) factions wanted a much different approach… the world would be different if america followed those paths….
He wanted that war so badly, but it needn’t have happened. War is expensive, it is the worst thing you can do and as such should always be a last resort, it should not be something you enter into lightly on maybes and could bes. It is something you enter into only when you are absolutely sure there is no alternative and that the threat is there.
Werent there numerous UN “actions†that supposedly gave Saddam an opportunity to come clean? I don’t remember him ever doing that…..you don’t take a killers “word†on something…I agree—war is the LAST resort…I never said anything else—-pre-emptive war is the last resort….it does matter if it is war or “pre”-emptive….
Bush didn’t even really try to find an alternative in Iraq…..isnt the UN going to save the world?
Nor would you have, with your tough guy idealogy and dreams of blowing up little kids to scare the fear of America into your enemies, you still agree with what he did. That is why I call you a hypocrit when you claim to hold human life sacred….dreams of blowing up little kids? This is where the lefties go/are crazy.. What do you think..I WANT to send my children to war? No no no no no….but if they are called to service or volunteer then yes—they must serve our country…..
have seen America turn from the land of the free, where Atheists are accepted as Americans, where it is okay to be a liberal, to what you have now, NeoNazi propaganda where the Jews have been replaced with the left. Where no attempt at understanding what the left actually is has been made…….I have no problem with atheists (I believe I was one for some time)…..liberals? we always need different povs…I just believe the liberal pov is wrong…..I don’t think you are evil….that is were we differ….why do you think I am on this site? It IS an attempt to understand what you guys believe….so far I have found an extreme amount of hate and foul language on YOUR (libs) part….
Where it is worse to be a “Liberal†then to be a child molester….where do you get your facts? who the hell said that? I think we can agree that is not true….
The bill of rights is more then just a damn piece of paper, and that is something you will never understand…..it also protects us all—-but you guys here want me off the site….it is not me that does not follow the terms of agreement—-it is your wacko lefties…..
How did we get on this topic anyway? I will see you on other posts…
August 27th, 2006 at 10:32 amif you had a child with diabetes who could receive a cure from some you and your husband could donate tht would be in a pea tree dish you may feel differnertly especailly if you had to test her finger 10 times a day and give 5 shots a day and constabntly worry she may drop into a come in her sleep religion does not belong in science grow up it is sceince not religion god creted smart men and women who could help us who decided agaist his perfect world to help ourselves !!! to make smart choices this is 2006 would you want to take 20 -30 years off your kids life instead of a pea tree dish helping them its my egg his perm or somethign somebody didn’t want and would go in the trash idiots
August 31st, 2006 at 12:26 am