Kristol: College Guys Are ‘Very Happy’ About Plan B Approval Because ‘The Burden Is Totally Off Them’
Kristol: College Guys Are ‘Very Happy’ About Plan B Approval Because ‘The Burden Is Totally Off Them’
This week, after three years of delay, the Bush administration finally approved the sale of Plan B (a.k.a. “the morning after pill”) to women over 18 without a prescription.
This morning on Fox News, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said that college men are “very happy” that Plan B will now be sold over-the-counter because they can have “a wild night” and “the burden is off them.” Watch it:
Scientific evidence does not support Kristol’s claim that Plan B increases promiscuity. A 2002 study in the British Medical Journal found “there is no evidence that access to emergency contraceptives has any discernible effect on teen sexual activity.” Dr. Vivian M. Dickerson, president of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, says emergency contraception “does not increase promiscuity among teenaged women, nor does it cause women to abandon their regular birth control methods.”
Transcript:
KRISTOL: I don’t know, I came into Fox this morning and one of our younger colleagues who works here, a guy just out of college a couple of years, said all his friends in who are still college are very happy about this — all his guy friends, his male friends who are still in college are happy about this. They have a wild night. Precautions aren’t taken. The burden is now totally off them. They tell their girlfriend to go out and get this drug and no problems at all. And I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the the country.
WILLIAMS: The woman doesn’t have to do it. A woman has some choice in this matter. In fact, what it does, it increases her ability to manage her life, her future, and to decide whether or not she’s ready to be a parent, and the fact of the matter, contrary to people who say that it’s an abortion, it’s not an abortion. This is preventing pregnancy, just like taking a birth control pill. that’s good news. I don’t see how you get around that. To my mind, what’s really at stake here is credibility. The fda approved this three years ago. Then they had an advisory panel, scientists who said it’s a safe way for young women to deal with this situation, and then you had politics intervene. The politics of abortion. and people saying, no, don’t do it. It’s about promiscuity. That to me was playing to the base and to me pandering to people who are opponents of abortion.
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So just where are they getting these college guys at Fox? A “wild night?” WTF does that mean?
My daughter is going to college next year and I would like her as far from these people as possible.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:21 amIt creeps me out that these Crusaders think about other people having sex so much.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:21 amBush finally admits that he is a failure: http://www.correntewire.com/bush_im_responsible_for_the_federal_government_constitution_no_youre_not
August 27th, 2006 at 11:21 amWell scrubbed big baby Kristol doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about.
I lost count of how many boxes of condoms I saw in the stuff guys were packing into the dorm on Friday.
Any kid with an attitude like Kristol describes wasn’t raised right — or they were joking. Kristol wouldn’t understand something as complicated as humor.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:21 amSeriously, how many people even think Kristol is worth the pixels to type about. He spews false information coupled with fearmongering.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:23 amThey tell their girlfriend to go out and get this drug and no problems at all. And I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the the country.
which begs the question “just what WOULD be a good thing…?”
August 27th, 2006 at 11:24 amSure Kristol – are the guys going to pay for this pill at a cost of $34.00/pill? What College student has that kind of money to throw around? Hell, they drink BL piss for beer because they have no money. How are they going to afford to pay for this pill? There are a lot cheaper forms of birth control.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:26 amPoor Bill Kristol… he’s the one the girls wouldn’t have sex with and neither would the boys.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:28 amandroid, right?
August 27th, 2006 at 11:29 amKristol is an authoritarian in every way possible. He believes foreigners are evil so their lands must be invaded and occupied. Today he admitted how much of an elitist he is with regard to morality. He thinks that the average person is a stupid sinner who needs the governments tough hand to tell them what to do. I can’t figure out how these people keep getting elected? Do the people that vote for the neocons think they truly are a lower class of people who need to be kept in line? How do Kristol and his friends get to call their opponents elitists when they have such disdain for everyday people?
August 27th, 2006 at 11:29 amI just guessing but I bet Bill Kristol went to college at some point. Yeah, look at him, so pleased with himself. He got out the talking point he wanted and nobody called him a lying shit. He should be please at that. He is a lying shit.
HE is not at all good for the US.
When do I get to take a pill that prevents this prick from getting air time.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:30 am[...] “Marge…I think I hate Bill Kristol.” [...]
August 27th, 2006 at 11:32 amWhen do I get to take a pill that prevents this prick from getting air time.
Comment by mparker
It would fly off the shelves, mparker.
He does look particularly self-satified today, doesn’t he? Maybe it’s just self-gratified…
August 27th, 2006 at 11:33 ammparker –
When do I get to take a pill that prevents this prick from getting air time.
Now, that could be a money maker for the drug companies. Big Pharma’s pipeline is stuggling to get new drugs to market. There haven’t been any block buster drugs for quite some time and other than cancer drugs, there aren’t any big block busters on the horizon either.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:34 amKristol is self-satisfied because now he can give his hooker a pill and he certainly can afford the $34.00/pill cost.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:36 amThink Progress – how about a real story for us to discuss? Like this one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1858768,00.html
Who gives a rat’s a$$ about Kristol’s sexual fantasies when Venazuela just made a HUGE oil deal with China. Watch out WalMart shoppers. Prices may be rising.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:39 amkristol is completely out of touch with reality which, of course, is the prime reason he is such a treasured talking head on fox… bush and his criminal cronies pander… kristol and his ilk just have the freedom pander more overtly, but it all comes from the same rovian playbook… if our bought and paid for media wouldn’t put this asshole out front and center in front of a national audience, no one would pay the slightest attention to him, including me and think progress… he’s an insult to other carbon and water-based lifeforms…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
August 27th, 2006 at 11:40 amSince when have we men been too concerned about the consequences of a ‘wild night’? How does the availability of the morning after pill change male indifference?
Maybe the availability of the morning after pill doesn’t really make much difference. Probably, having a bit more respect for women would make a difference, i.e. remembering that they are people, not just creatures with breasts.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:41 amI can’t believe I am going to say this: Kristol might have a point.
The way I read his comment, he was talking about young people who are already having sex. He does not mean that Plan B will ncrease promiscuity, but that it will lead to a decrease in use of other forms of contraception -specially condom in the men.
I think it’s a valid point. Men tend to wash their hands on anything regarding birth control, leaving the burden on the women. This is not a secret or a new attitude. Personally, I would like to see a campaing promoting the use of condom because it would kill two birds with one stone: Less pregnancies and stop the spread of venereal diseases.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:42 amMy grandfather said that the yellow race will rule the world one day (this was not meant as a racist remark, just an intuitive thought on his part) and I’m beginning to think he was correct.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:42 amA must read from Buzzflash.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1858768,00.html
Gregor – $34.00/pill is EXPENSIVE sex. This is not a generic drug. The press has been lax in telling the public the price of this pill.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:45 amAnd after all I said previously, Plan B should still be accessible to women, of course.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:46 amOf course Plan B should be accessible to women, but who is going to pay for this pill?
August 27th, 2006 at 11:48 amGregor – I might agree if men ever took the responsibility for birth control but this is not the case. If theses boys think the only thing they need to worry about is pregnancy they will have a hard lesson to learn. Sex can also lead to some very horrid diseases. This is why abstinence only sex ed is insufficient.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:49 amsorry – should read these boys.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:50 amGregor Samsa,
I entirely agree. But doesn’t this cut further to the relationship between men and women in general? On the one hand, the right moralises endlessly about how terrible string-free sex is, but on the other it idolises the family- based upon a strong loving father and allegiance to god, with women in definite second place.
Isn’t there a connection between disrespect towards women by men (treating them as sexual objects) and the idea of a family based upon obedience towards a male superior?
August 27th, 2006 at 11:50 amI’m off to Buzzflash to read some important stories.
Bill Kristol – you really should learn how to smile instead of smirk.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:50 amHi Prince – good point and good post.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:52 amIsn’t there a connection between disrespect towards women by men (treating them as sexual objects) and the idea of a family based upon obedience towards a male superior?
Comment by Prince Myshkin
Absolutely, Prince Myshkin. One of my principle goals as a single mother has been to teach my sons respect for women. I think I did pretty well.
(love the name, by the way)
August 27th, 2006 at 11:56 amCoffins,
Yes, that is one expensive pill. I don’t know who will pay for it, but my guess would be the women.
Jules,
Abstinence-only education is a joke. A bad joke, to boot. I think we need a fact-based approch to sex education and a educate the men on the use of the condom, instead of leaving the decision of birth contro to the women.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:57 amIf only Bill Kristol’s mon had used plan B after her wild night. The world would be a little safer without warmongers like Kristol around!
August 27th, 2006 at 11:58 amZooey – I wish all moms of boys felt this way. I have had moms tell me they were glad they did not have girls as they do not need to worry about pregnancy. What does that mean? Are they teaching their sons it is not their responsibility if a girl becomes pregnant? They can just walk away? And what about diseases? What about respect?
Some people should not be allowed to procreate!!!
August 27th, 2006 at 11:59 amPlan B, which is taken in a two-pill dose…The drug currently costs between $25 and $40 a dose; Barr has not set the price for the version that will be sold over the counter.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:59 amhttp://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2006/08/25/fda_approves_sale_of_morning_after_pill/
If only Bill Kristol’s mon had used plan B after her wild night. The world would be a little safer without warmongers like Kristol around!
Comment by left in a right world — August 27, 2006 @ 11:58 am
My mom says for some people birth control should be retroactive!!!
August 27th, 2006 at 12:00 pmPrince Myshkin,
I don’t think Plan B will lead to free-for-all sex, that notion is ludicrous. Also, I am not sure that it wil undercut the relationships between men and women.
And yes, I do think there is a connection between disrespect for women and the “woman owes obedience to the man” attitude.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:02 pmThe birth control burden, when it comes to avoiding an unwanted pregnancy, has always been on women. Guys, if they’re concerned at all, are more focused on STDs because it directly, physically impacts them. It’s always been this way. One more option for women isn’t going to change this, or will suddenly encourage women to give in to a barely suppressed desire to sleep around with everyone like sluts.
What’s he talking about? Or maybe I should ask, where has he been his entire sperm-producing life?
August 27th, 2006 at 12:02 pmI hate to rain on their little parade, but Plan B isn’t going to do a thing to prevent STDs or HIV/AIDS. I hope someone is thinking about precautions as something beyond pregnancy prevention (as important as that is and as happy as I am that Plan B was finally approved).
August 27th, 2006 at 12:02 pmI would gladly pay 2x$50 over $700 to fix an accident.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:03 pmI hate to rain on their little parade
Comment by Al — August 27, 2006 @ 12:02 pm
Don’t worry -you didn’t. The use of condom was already mentioned.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:04 pmNot anymore. Every guy in America should keep a pair of these in his pocket at all times.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:05 pmHell, reality doesn’t support Kristol’s claims. He clearly takes that as no reason for him to stop claiming. He’ll just keep claiming his little, black heart out.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:07 pmway to step up, spudgeboy…
the burden is off the men only if women let that happen…
of course the women will pay for this plan b… lesly is correct…
August 27th, 2006 at 12:09 pmbut, fortunately, there exist many real men like spudge here who are willing to take responsiblity and help out…
Caption Contest.
ASSCLOWN ALERT !!
August 27th, 2006 at 12:09 pmI have had moms tell me they were glad they did not have girls as they do not need to worry about pregnancy.
Comment by Jules
I have heard parents say this, too. What’s that about, anyway? They’re going to be mighty surprised when the Sheriff knocks on their door with the child support papers.
From the time my sons were old enough to understand their part in any baby-making venture, I have impressed the point that they are responsible for their actions. Girls must protect themselves, and boys must protect themselves — “she said she was on birth control” is not an acceptable excuse, because pregnancy is not the only possible outcome of sexual activity.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:11 pmBingo,
He looks like he just got home from Sunday school, doesn’t he?
August 27th, 2006 at 12:13 pmIt’s most unfortunate that Plan B was not available when Billy Boy was conceived.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:16 pmHey Zooey, congrats on getting the kid off to college! More closet space?
August 27th, 2006 at 12:20 pmPLEASE, can anyone remind me WHY Kristol’s opinion counts? is sought? matters? When he has been so wrong on so many issues…………ANYONE?
August 27th, 2006 at 12:20 pmCollege+beer+sex= big business
August 27th, 2006 at 12:20 pmthe real objection is to people having sex.
they want everyone to lead unhappy, sexless, miserable lives, torn by war, famine and poverty.
if your life style even looks tolerably decent, they feel threatened.
sex makes them feel GUILTY…because it feels GOOD. and they are BAD and they know it. Anyone else having sex reminds them how empty their own greedy little lives are.
their “stuff” is all they have to “distinguish” them from “you”.
as Jesus said….they have their reward
August 27th, 2006 at 12:21 pmScientific evidence does not support Kristol’s claim that Plan B increases promiscuity.
Has Kristol ever made a claim supported by ANY kind of evidence? I don’t think so. This guy is psychotic.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:22 pmHey Zooey, congrats on getting the kid off to college! More closet space?
Comment by SKdeA
Not yet, but I have a big bag waiting to be filled for Goodwill. I told him anything left laying around was going. He didn’t do too badly putting his things away. :)
August 27th, 2006 at 12:23 pmmarblex,
Ding ding ding ding ding. We have a winner folks.
That is exactly why they push abstinence and don’t want abortions and are so against pornography. It has nothing to do with morales. It has to do with the fact that they are up tight about it and prbably aren’t very good at it.
Here, picture this one: When was the last time you think Billy Kristol her ate p****?
I am guessing never.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:25 pmWell said, marblex, right on the mark.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:26 pmSpudge, ahem, also well said. :}
August 27th, 2006 at 12:27 pm# 45. Zooey:
More like “Satan” school.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:33 pmWhat a moron. I wonder if he used those arguements when condoms were put into stores for ANYONE to buy. Even girls can buy condoms Kristol…GASP! Surely that means the burden is off men and that must mean why men no longer buy condoms ever. The same with the pill. Surely the pill being available to purchase will increase promiscuity and encourage men to be even more sexually out of control. How ever has society survived this long?
August 27th, 2006 at 12:37 pmOkay, Spudge, you need to describe some brillo pads now… I did not need that visual. Any visual of Kristol clothed and doing nothing is horrific enough… Ugh.
In fact, TP, I think you should put a ‘censored’ bar across his frightening mug as well…
August 27th, 2006 at 12:37 pmIf god didn’t want people buying condoms then he would have given 17 year olds raging hormones – he’d have switched them on at marriage.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:39 pmmake that wouldn’t have
August 27th, 2006 at 12:40 pmAny visual of Kristol clothed and doing nothing is horrific enough… Ugh.
Comment by unbelievable
How about clothed and doing as Spudge suggests? Or unclothed?
I just bought brillo pads at Costco — so I’m good. :)
August 27th, 2006 at 12:43 pmunbelievable,
You are exactly right. If God is all knowing, then why did man pick the arbitrary age of 18 to call people adults. We know that people aren’t nearly mature enough to make any real desicions until they ar 25. Why did we pick 18. If you are going to pick an age when people still aren’t mature, why not let people start younger. Why not let them start when God chooses. God makes men (I know from experience on this one) very horny at age 14. Girls supposedly mature faster, but I didn’t see that. They seemed to get horny at age 14 also. But, times have changed and girls and boys ARE doing stuff at a younger age now.
What can we do to stop it? Stop being the most prude country in the world.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:46 pmOkay, Mr. Kristol is wrong again. That won’t stop Dan Quayle’s former chief of staff from spouting off and being wrong about other important issues of the day. His arrogance and self-satisfied, smug, smirk bring needs wiped off his face by someone…anyone! How does he get away with it? Why doesn’t his kind ever face any kind of reckoning?
August 27th, 2006 at 12:48 pmSo this guy, we are supposed to believe is an expert on everything from the middle east [cough couch chalabi] politics [Neo-cons straussian lies] to sex [wtf?] to war [propaganda]
This man has been wrong on nearly every subject he has spoken about, Ironically the Bushfolks still listen to this man..why?
It’s like watching a used car salesman.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:52 pmI just bought brillo pads at Costco — so I’m good. :)
Comment by Zooey — August 27, 2006 @ 12:43 pm
Describe them… :)
August 27th, 2006 at 12:53 pmi am reminded of one of the funny/awkward times with my college (senior!) daughter… a candy bowl full of condoms in the living room of the apt. she and 2 girls share… they all took a handfull from the student clinic and, for fun and purpose, put them all in the bowl…
but the thing is, most kids have been have been hearing about condoms and STDs for years and so much of it is not embarrassing or intimidating to them – it’s like “duh”…
it’s mostly us grownups who have the worst hangups…
August 27th, 2006 at 12:54 pmSpudge,
Becuase I’m an Atheist, I think the answer is that there is no god that designs, creates or controls these things in teh first place, which is why organized religion is frequently so out of touch with reality.
Guess I was just pointing out another flaw in the system…
But, for those who do believe, I hope that they get in touch with reality and find a way to include reality into their ideology as you and the other religious liberals around here have done.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:56 pmKRISTOL: They tell their girlfriend to go out and get this drug and no problems at all. And I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the the country.
But pregnant teeangers dropping out of college is?
Does he EVER think anything through before it leaves his pie hole?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:01 pmDescribe them… :)
Comment by unbelievable
They are soft and scratchy, and they do wonders scrubbing away super icky images from the brain.
Scrub once, that should do the job. If not, scrub once more and have a margarita.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:05 pmThis man has been wrong on nearly every subject he has spoken about, Ironically the Bushfolks still listen to this man..why?
Comment by Trinary Suka — August 27, 2006 @ 12:52 pm
I don’t think it is ironic at all Tinary, they’re ‘bushfolks’ afterall. Who’s been wrong about more issues than bush himself?
OT: Hey UB and Zoo:)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:07 pmunbelievable,
I am more agnostic than atheist. But, I was speaking from their point of view. If they think God is all knowing, then why are they questioning what he does with the hormones that are inside of the children he made. Remember, in their world, God is everything.
So, by man saying people aren’t adults until they are 18 flys in the face of God, since he clearly has put boobs on my 12 year old.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:09 pmKrystol, you Neanderthal, read this from the true I World countries:
“In many European countries — Switzerland in particular — sexual intercourse, at least from the age of 15 or 16 years, is considered acceptable and even part of normative adolescent behavior.” Switzerland, he noted, has one of the world’s lowest rates of abortion and teen pregnancy. Teens there, like those in Sweden and the Netherlands, have easy access to contraceptives, confidential health care and comprehensive sex education.
In Sweden, compulsory sex education starts when children are 10 to 12. Without parental consent, teens can get free medical care, free condoms, prescriptions for inexpensive oral contraceptives and general advice at youth clinics. Emergency contraceptives (the so-called morning-after pill) are available without a prescription.
Religion tends to insert itself less in government policy on sex education, contraception and abortion in Western Europe than in the United States, says Michaud. The Catholic Church exerted minimal influence in Switzerland’s AIDS prevention campaign, he said. “All in all, the church has been very tolerant and does not really get involved in sexual matters,” Michaud wrote in an e-mail.
Source
August 27th, 2006 at 1:09 pmHey Quadrajet!
Are you pleased that you’re totally off the hook in regard to knocking up the ladies?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:10 pmHe’s an Editor for Chrissakes. Hes an expert at nothing!!
Hes not a war expert, a sex expert, a college expert, a socialogoist, nor a doctor..HE is making this stuff up as he goes.
In fact, he sounds alot like Loser Limbaugh.
==
“You know folks, the facts are these Liberals, they have a wild night, I took one Viagra folks… one, these Liberals have alot of wild nights folks, on government loans. Precautions aren’t taken. Folks, thats a Fact. The burden is now totally off these deadbeat dad Liberals. And now these Liberals tell Christian women, and we must stop this folks, They tell their Christian girlfriends to go out and get this drug and no problems at all, they get it Boom!
The Fact is Liberals approved this, Not Bush, no siree bob, it was those liberals who don’t want barefoot and naked women, It’s those Liberals who are robbing the fatherland of its future fighters!. And I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the the country when Liberals make bush approve of ‘have more sex’ drugs make less kids reducing the size and strength of our military!” we need more sex!, less college!, a draft and more kids for our Aryan crusade in Iran!!”
August 27th, 2006 at 1:10 pm– Bill ‘Rushdoony’ Kristol
If not, scrub once more and have a margarita.
Comment by Zooey — August 27, 2006 @ 1:05 pm
Ahhhh…. thank you!
August 27th, 2006 at 1:11 pmSo, by man saying people aren’t adults until they are 18 flys in the face of God, since he clearly has put boobs on my 12 year old.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
*snort* I hope your 12 year old is a girl.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:12 pmOT: Hey UB and Zoo:)
Comment by Quadrajet — August 27, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
Hey you…. S’up? (I’ve been hanging around 17 year olds too much :)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:12 pmI don’t think it is ironic at all Tinary, they’re ‘bushfolks’ afterall. Who’s been wrong about more issues than bush himself?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:13 pm==
Good question =]
I’m gonna go with, door #2, the only man with a lower poll rating than Bush.
Zooey,
Both of my kids are girls. I have an 18 year old and a 12 year old. And my shotgun is loaded.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:16 pmHi, Zoo and UB and everybody else.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:18 pmThe problem we have here in Mexico and a lot of Latinamerican countries is, specially, that some Virgin appeared to some folks someday and that ruined all the fun and all the common sense! Now, virginity is seen as a virtue (come on!) but that doesnt stop us from having 16 y/o mothers. Again another religious-made contradiction.
What is with these human ambu bag neocons who think that things like Plan B and the HPV vaccine that practically cures cervical cancer in women will only lead to promiscuity? Are all Republicans impotent or something and have this poisonous, warped attitude about sex as a result?
Anyway, I want to thank you all for your kind thoughts, considering that any of them came from here at Think Progress, on the passing of my beloved cat Sheena last Friday night. I’ve been moping around the house, not visiting any blogs or even doing more than just scanning the headlines because I don’t feel that I’m yet at back the point of being able to respond to current events in my usual biting, insightful way, certainly not at the level to which my readers are accustomed.
So while I slowly get back into the swing of things, please accept this superior substitute in Mr. Frank Rich, just back from vacation, in Return to the Scene of the Crime, or Bush’s McArthur-esque, triumphant return to NOLA.
Hopefully, I’ll be back in my usual snarky frame of mind by the first anniversary of Katrina on the 29th. And thanks for hanging in there.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:18 pmAnd my shotgun is loaded.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 1:16 pm
Ouch! You sounded like my girlfriend´s dad.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:19 pmI am more agnostic than atheist.
Oh, I thought you were still a church goer who took the good Jesus-said-love-one-another stuff and ignored the fire and brimstone… Well, thanks for clarifying.
But, I was speaking from their point of view. If they think God is all knowing, then why are they questioning what he does with the hormones that are inside of the children he made. Remember, in their world, God is everything.
Absolutely. I get reminded of that daily here in the red of state of Georgia… It makes me feel awkward when people start talking about god as if everyone believes in their brand and not just 33%ish of the world’s population. They really have no clue that they aren’t the majority or that there are alternatives. To them it is a fact.
So, by man saying people aren’t adults until they are 18 flys in the face of God, since he clearly has put boobs on my 12 year old.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 1:09 pm
Agreed. An all-powerful god capable of intelligent design would have done a much better job than giving teenagers without fully developed brains the urge to mate… And I see that daily too. I have already had to assign seats in my one class with girls to keep the alpha males away from them… has been a huge distraction and they are doing the worst in terms of their grades… Nothing intelligent about that.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:19 pmBoth of my kids are girls. I have an 18 year old and a 12 year old. And my shotgun is loaded.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
My sons are 24 and 18. The shotgun is duly noted. :)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:20 pmWhat burden? Billy boy is talking about frat brats who never did care if their one-night stand got pregnant. I’m not that all college kids are this irresponsible – but me thinks Billy boy wasn’t thinking about the decent fellows in college.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:21 pmJuan,
As a high school teacher, I can attest that treating older teenagers like young adults actually makes them behave more responsibly.
Our school has a ‘just go to the bathroom’ policy. We’re starting week 5 and so far, no one has taken advantage of it.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:21 pmThe only thing virginity does is make you bad at having sex, because you have no skills.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:21 pmjurassicpork,
Condolences on the passing of Sheena. That’s a tough one.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:23 pmSorry to hear about your cat. I had a favorite cat of mine die not long ago and it really sucked. I feel for you.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:23 pmAny one wanna take odds that Kristol’s daddy helped him beat date rape charges while he attended college?
Comment by Kristol the scum bag — August 27, 2006 @ 1:17 pm
I’d agree except that I don’t think he could over-power an 18 year old girl now… :)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:23 pmAre you Steve?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:24 pmThe only thing virginity does is make you bad at having sex, because you have no skills.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Clearly my ex is a perpetual virgin.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:25 pmIf there is a ghod, the fact that the FDA approved the drug is the Lord’s will – accept it and move on. The fact that Kristol is a moron is also the Lord’s will.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:25 pmNo, I was raised Christian and have read the entire Bible from front to back cover twice. But, I do not believe that any of the organized religions teach what is true. What is true is that we have no idea how we got here. But, the proof I see of some higher being is the Big Bang Theory. Everything started from some big giant lump of crap in the center of the universe. Where did that ball of crap come from?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:27 pmSorry about Sheena jurassicpork… My cats are my family, I know how hard it must be. Condiolences…
August 27th, 2006 at 1:27 pmOur school has a ‘just go to the bathroom’ policy. We’re starting week 5 and so far, no one has taken advantage of it.
Comment by unbelievable — August 27, 2006 @ 1:21 pm
The only thing virginity does is make you bad at having sex, because you have no skills.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 1:21 pm
Spudge and UB: A friend living sometime in Sweden (I guess Brian Coughland could help us in this) told us that sexual education is so developed that they began sexual relations at 13 y/o and there was no problem (no health issues, nor pregnancy issues and nor social issues). The women he had to date were so uninterested in sex because they have already known it since puberty. He! I guess that was a joke.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:28 pmWell, ya know, “boys will be boys”, and ya jes havta watch out for ‘em so they don’t have to louse up their lives by becoming dads when all they wanted was a little whoopie.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:28 pmHey Quadrajet!
Are you pleased that you’re totally off the hook in regard to knocking up the ladies?
Comment by Zooey — August 27, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Actually Zoo, like with everything this administration does I’m sceptical of their motives. Perhaps they think I’ll be so preoccupied with having wild, uninhibited sex that I’ll be too distracted to notice what else they’re doing.
Good to see everybody – but Judd says we’re not supposed to talk OT:[
August 27th, 2006 at 1:31 pmMy head is about to explode trying to break down Kristol’s logic. Is he trying to say that Plan B is going to make college girls more slutty? Or college boys more rapacious?
The culture of contraception–especially on campus–has come a long way since Kristol was in college. Every girl I knew (not just the ones in the biblical sense) from college to the time I got married was on the pill. It’s affordable, there’s no stigma, and it has other effects that cause it to be prescribed even when the woman is not sexually active. And every guy I knew was happy to use a condom if the hookup was casual. It protects against the nasty (and deadly) things that the pill doesn’t.
Plan B isn’t going to change any of this. I’m guessing that sexually active college and single women will still be on the pill. And if a guy is too much of a jerk to wear a condom, then Plan B isn’t going to make him more of one.
Plan B is for emergencies, and to say otherwise brings up the spectre of abortion-as-birth-control that’s been pushed before.
Tell me again why this was on Fox “News”?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:33 pmJuan C,
How old were these girls. Because the reality is that our all knowing God has also given men and women terrible sex clocks. Men want it at a young age and women want it at an older age. My girlfriend is older than me, but we get along perfectly.
Intellegent Design my ass.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:33 pmWhere did that ball of crap come from?
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
Same holds true for the question of where did the thing that created it come from?
The idea of nothing to me is harder to comprehend that something.
There is certainly reasonable question that we humans with our microscopic view of the world will probably never be able to comprehend the universe itself. I just don’t believe there is a consciousness to the crap, because Occum’s Razor suggests that the crap just being (and not being conscious) is more realistic that a conscious maker of the crap just being…
Evolution’s fingerprints are everywhere… and it’s not terrible bright. Based on that, I think there’s some direction of the truth in quantum physics. Electricity and string theory stuff…
August 27th, 2006 at 1:33 pmYachts and Lattes,
Good post.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmOops! I meant skeptical:)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmAre you Steve?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
Ha! But no. :)
Clearly my ex is a perpetual virgin.
Comment by Zooey — August 27, 2006 @ 1:25 pm
Ouch!!! Women are really mean. :)
on the passing of my beloved cat Sheena last Friday night.
Comment by jurassicpork
I always thought about pet/owner relationships as silly…until I had a cat. Biggest cat Ive ever seen. He (he didnt have a name, he was called Cat -yeah, that disfunctional is my family-) lived with my mom for almost 8 years. He went back to Chile with her some 4 years ago and he died there. He was very big so he had health issues often. My mother still cant stand talking about how he passed away. When I knew about his death, I understood this “silly” pet/owner relationship. Im sorry, jurassicpork.
The women he had to date were so uninterested in sex because they have already known it since puberty. He! I guess that was a joke.
Comment by Juan C — August 27, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
I think it’s also like the fact that you don’t see many drunk 18 year olds in Europe either, because they are allowed to imbibe in public at 16, and at home much earlier.
When the forbidden fruit is free, it no longer tastes as good, I think…
August 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmAs for the younger colleagues he mentioned, either he made that up or they did.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmMy girlfriend is older than me, but we get along perfectly.
Intellegent Design my ass.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 1:33 pm
Yeah, I know what you mean. I dated a russian teacher I had. She was 35 when I was 25. And the first thing she said to me the first day we went out was: Sex is very important for me.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:39 pmI was stone cold. :)
j.pork
I’m sorry about Sheena;I can only hope it was from old age,and not an accident.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:40 pmI have 7. Sometimes the best way to get over a loss like that is a iddy biddy kitten.
This really would be the same absurdity if the far right started saying that it’s evil to eat, or go the bathroom (because it’s dirty).
Sex is just a natural human function that every person is born to want to do, once the hormones kick in. Saying it is ‘evil’ doesn’t stop people from wanting to do it, no more than anything else…
August 27th, 2006 at 1:41 pm#110 – It’s just another handle to grip the sheep by.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:42 pmExactly.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:43 pmWhen the forbidden fruit is free, it no longer tastes as good, I think…
Comment by unbelievable — August 27, 2006 @ 1:35 pm
Oh, please, lets beg that doesnt ever happen to me. :)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:45 pmIt’s just another handle to grip the sheep by.
Comment by Dreary Urbanite — August 27, 2006 @ 1:42 pm
That’s hysterical…
August 27th, 2006 at 1:45 pmOh, please, lets beg that doesnt ever happen to me. :)
Comment by Juan C — August 27, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
Then just don’t do it everyday… :)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:46 pmThen just don’t do it everyday… :)
August 27th, 2006 at 1:49 pmComment by unbelievable — August 27, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
Ok, Im safe. :)
unbelievable,
What i wonder is the following:
If you believe in god, does he prefer a celibate marriage or a marriage in which the couple often have recreational sex? I’d reckon the former, on the whole ‘committing your life to god/jesus’ basis. In which case, would god prefer a gay couple who adopted having taken a vow of celibacy at their marriage ceremony, or a hetero couple who had endless recreational sex?
Couldn’t the gay couple argue that they wanted to devote their lives to god through raising children in his ways- which would include celibacy?
August 27th, 2006 at 1:50 pmFellas, I have a nephew´s birthday to attend. Have a nice weekend and keep bashing those a-holes.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:50 pmPrince Myshkin,
There isn’t one single place in the Bible that God says he wants anybody to be celebate. Not even priests. That was added later by men.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:53 pmComment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
August 27th, 2006 at 1:54 pmBut…if God doesnt exist?
119, 120
Sure, I don’t believe in god. I think the bible is in general a load of drivel written by a superstitious people and their prophets. But the religious right oppose sex and gay marriage but believe in both god and the bible.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:58 pmComment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
I think the more important question is that if there were a god, it would want people to worry about ending the war in Iraq instead of meddling in other people’s sex lives…
August 27th, 2006 at 1:58 pmI’m reminded of my father (a hopeless republican) who’s entire home sex education program consisted of the ‘its evil’ BS. It didn’t work and my sister became pregnant before marriage, for which she was thoroughly trashed and humiliated. A closer look at my family’s history reveals that I was one of the few 9lb premature babies ever born. Of course, maybe he changed to the ‘its evil’ program after it became apparent, very early on, that I was a democrat.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:58 pmOuch!!! Women are really mean. :)
Comment by Juan C
That might be mean, but it’s still true!
August 27th, 2006 at 1:59 pmViking gods? Aztech gods? Why should the Judeo/Christian version of magic be given any preference?
August 27th, 2006 at 2:01 pmThe Bible contradicts itself all on its own. All one has to do to see the lunacy in it is to read it…
I can’t even pretend to assume what those who believe in it think. Before I rejected religion, I was blind in terms of what the Bible said. It was reading it that made me realize it was filled with a lot of violence, contradictions and general nonsense 9talking donkeys and fire-breathing dragons…)
That reminds me, I have been teaching my students about other cultures under the guise of understanding that there is a direct correlation between the culture and the architecture. When we got to Ancient China, I showed them their minor obsesssion with dragons, which of course, do not exist. One of the students actually said “Well, maybe they used to exist…” Knowing teh possible context for his belief, I just changed the subject.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:03 pmunbelievable,
i would agree that god would have better stuff to do with his time- probably he’d be worried about famine and AIDS, and as you say, war. But do the likes of Pat ‘katrina is divine punishment’ Robertson see it like that? I’m trying to point out what I believe to be an inconsistency in the right wing position on gay marriage and sex, rather than anything wider.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:04 pmOf course, maybe he changed to the ‘its evil’ program after it became apparent, very early on, that I was a democrat.
Comment by Quadrajet — August 27, 2006 @ 1:58 pm
So you could have free love (in the hippie context)? :)
August 27th, 2006 at 2:07 pm126
likewise, i can’t believe that anyone believes such a collection of fairy tales anymore. i’m just glad to come from secular europe! problem is, the sort of stuff that god himself gets up to in the bible actually justifies the position of these people if they take it as truth and his actions as a guide for right conduct.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:07 pmI’m trying to point out what I believe to be an inconsistency in the right wing position on gay marriage and sex, rather than anything wider.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 2:04 pm
I think Christianity itself is one bigcontradiction of the fact that Jesus was trying to get the violence and hypocrisy out of Judaism, and instead became a god himself…
They hate anyone gay without consideration. Hate is irrational. Your point is valid – unfortunately it only makes sense to those of us who know gay people and understand that they are no different than anyone else aside from who they want to shag… I agree with you.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:11 pm#63
I did not know that Mr. Bill Kristol was Dan Qualyle’s chief of staff !
That explains EVERYTHING !!!
EVERYTHING !!!
He is an alum of the AWC — “Always Wrong Club”
It was probably Kristol that told Quayle to attack Candice Bergen’s “Murphy Brown” sitcom character – for raising a child alone or something like that.
He couldn’t even beat “Murphy Brown” and years later he’s trying to tell the government to send young men and women to fight Iraq AND Iran.
What a putz. And “macho” FAUX NEWS picks a man who lost a battle against a sitcom character to beat the war drums at least once a week.
Incredible.
Now, I think I will relax and fix myself a nice baked “potatoe”
August 27th, 2006 at 2:11 pmI’m surprised Kristol doesn’t blame Iran for this. “They’re corrupting our young men – let’s nuke ‘em”.
http://www.polibuzz.blogspot.com
August 27th, 2006 at 2:14 pmNow on Political Buzz
The GOP’s 2006 election platform: “Don’t vote for Dems because they’re the party of blacks and gays”.
Yes, that’s really what they’re saying.
Only on Political Buzz
http://www.polibuzz.blogspot.com
unbelievable,
I would say that the contradiction is the fact that God was so violent and Jesus is not. THey are quite the opposite and why would God the omnipotent let his son dictate wether or not he wants to slaughter people all over the world.
I have read the Bible from front to back and it starts as Freddie vs Jason and ends as Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:15 pmproblem is, the sort of stuff that god himself gets up to in the bible actually justifies the position of these people if they take it as truth and his actions as a guide for right conduct.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
This is exactly why I am anti-organized religion. I routinely get attacked for it around here as well. Doesn’t stop me though. Just like segregation didn’t stop Rosa Parks.
I think organized religion is responsible for the mass stupidity over-taking America. We used to be the most educated country in the world. Now, it is embarrassing that the most ignorant views posted online are from my fellow Americans, while a lot of the more astute comments come from people like Bruce Gorton or Gregor Samsa.
I teach at a charter school. I have mostly college-bound 16-18 year olds in my classes. I am, frankly, appalled by their general apathy, lack of reasoning or logic skills and laziness. We are in serious trouble as a nation if we don’t stop using religion as an excuse…
August 27th, 2006 at 2:16 pm#128 – you’ve clocked me again UB, hehehehe. Actually I started looking at things through my own eyes when nixon came along and my dad proclaimed his antics were ‘no big deal, everybody does it’, an excuse that consistently didn’t fly when it applied to something I had done.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:19 pmLMAO – All this proves is what we all suspected already: that FOX tends to hire a lot of asshole fratboys to intern with them. It’s more a matter of demographics than anything else BillyBoi.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:20 pmWell, if there are scientific studies that suggest that Plan B doesn’t increase promiscuity among adults or teens, it’s much more reasonable to accept anecdotal evidence from some unknown recent college graduate as proof. After all, we operate now on “faith-based” reasoning by which inconvenient facts are simply ignored.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:21 pmI have read the Bible from front to back and it starts as Freddie vs Jason and ends as Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 27, 2006 @ 2:15 pm
I am laughing…
You know, there are many contradictions in following someone else’s prescribed ideology instead of inventing your own. I bet we couldn’t pick them all out if we tried… And most of them are all right. Unfortunately, blind faith makes people of faith incapable of seeing them.
I still haven’t gotten an answer from a single Bible literalist on teh Intelligent Design of the human appendix… Though, IRI did try to answer why men have nipples. He said that it was because god was later planning to create woman from man. I then asked him to tell me where his tiny vagina and uterus are located… He never replied.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:23 pman excuse that consistently didn’t fly when it applied to something I had done.
Comment by Quadrajet — August 27, 2006 @ 2:19 pm
Teenagers are far more astute than the credit they are given… :)
Does he say the same excuses about Global Warming Bush?
August 27th, 2006 at 2:25 pmComment by unbelievable
I come from England, and while our educational system is a long way from perfect, the idea of creationism having a place in the classroom is unheard of. One reason I find American politics interesting is because the sort of issues discussed are totally different from Europe*- and by far the biggest difference is the place of religion in public life. I really agree with you that when a people attribute almost every event of their lives to a magical, mystical diety then they are in trouble. It is probably going a little far to draw a parallel with fascism, but the same abandonment of reason is at the back of both attitudes.
* also a slight smug sense of cultural superiority as well maybe!
August 27th, 2006 at 2:27 pmHere’s a thought – maybe Kristol is talking about the students at some repressed and sexually ignorant school such as Rectal Roberts University.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:29 pm#139 – Not yet, he’s going with the national security line so far (as you may recall this was one of nixon’s arguments for listening in). When the bush ‘tapes’ come out he’ll fall back on the other. The difference this time is that he’ll actually have an example to site – nixon:)
August 27th, 2006 at 2:31 pmSo lets use the faith based reasoning of Pat roberts, et all. With Plan B available girls that would have never had sex with be aborting fetuses everyday conned into sex by evil college guys, then god will get angry at the US and bring about some sort of big disaster….like a flood, or …..maybe a war…. or maybe George Bush as President.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:34 pmBones,
if you believed you were one of only, say, a few million going to heaven, and that the rest of the world is utterly evil, wouldn’t you want to bring about armageddon?
August 27th, 2006 at 2:37 pmI think Christianity itself is one bigcontradiction of the fact that Jesus was trying to get the violence and hypocrisy out of Judaism, and instead became a god himself…
They hate anyone gay without consideration. Hate is irrational.
Comment by unbelievable — August 27, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
I feel compelled to speak, because I feel you have arrived at a misconception. I am a Christian, and I believe by faith in His Son. The Bible quotes Jesus saying, “I and the Father are one,” and when Pilate asked Him if he was the Christ, He replied, “It is as you say.” Now, this is what I believe. But don’t assume all Christians are hate-filled, war-mongering, village-burning hypocrites. Can you find examples of zealots doing such things in the name of God? Sure, and it greatly upsets me the damage people do for the sake of God, be it Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, or whatever language is spoken. The damage is done by extremists who do not understand, because they are still ruled by a preconceived misperception of hate. “My God is bigger than your God,” sort of thing. The God I know is a God of love, not hate, and on this we agree. It is quite unfortunate that some Christians behave in this fashion to single out a specific person because they are gay. The truth is, the Bible states “All have sinned,” myself included. I wouldn’t presume to anyone “You’re goin’ ta hell.” I wish people would not be so caught up in such things because it profits no one. It only causes people to be more hateful.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:40 pmIt is probably going a little far to draw a parallel with fascism, but the same abandonment of reason is at the back of both attitudes.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
Not at all, we’ve been doing it for atleast a couple of years… The parallels are startling.
Washington DC is simply the real-life eastcoast poltical version of Hollywood’s melodramas and desperation television. It’s sad, really.
I taught Science last year and was advised not to talk about Evolution in thr classroom to avoid the complaints from the parents. The good side of that was that it made the students curious about evolution… :)
August 27th, 2006 at 2:42 pmThe difference this time is that he’ll actually have an example to site – nixon:)
Comment by Quadrajet — August 27, 2006 @ 2:31 pm
But if Clinton did it?
He was all over the Lewinsky-impeachment thing wasn’t he?
August 27th, 2006 at 2:44 pmThe God I know is a God of love, not hate, and on this we agree.
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
I find it very interesting how people’s definition of their god parallels their own personality.
This says a lot about you, but unfortunately does not change the fact that there are a lot of bad folks doing a whole lot of destruction in the name of their version of their god and a lot of other folks are simply swallowing it in the name of blind faith because the Old Testament of the Bible is pretty violent and bloody.
Isn’t this how all the other reformations and splits started within the Christian faith? Enough got tired of the corruption and started their own branch? Looks like it might be about to happen again. If it does, you guys should lose the Old Testamen – and Revelations. It’s out of touch with reality, violent and riddled with gross inaccuracies. The world would be better off if you guys made some revisions…
August 27th, 2006 at 2:51 pmMyshkin, hastening the onset of the last days I would liken to suicide. And the Christian church denies heaven to suicides. I do however believe batshit crazy nutjobs can rationalize any course of action, even if that means killing hundrerds of thousands of innocents because they “deserve it”. It’s nothing more than the “beat your wife” theory, “Well, yeah I beat my wife and that wasn’t right, but she was asking for it”. Yeah, all “Muslims” are asking for it, and we’re going to nuke them – see makes perfect sense if you’re batshit.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:53 pm#147 – he sure was, but that was different. Clinton’s crime involved lying about sex which is clearly more threatening to our way of life that what bush is doing. Ironically, when I pointed out that any number of his friends and relatives had been caught lying about sex (affairs, ect.) he pulled out the old ‘just because everybody does it doesn’t make it right’ line. Go figure?
August 27th, 2006 at 2:57 pmThe true face of abortion opponents. And the truth gets out, again.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:58 pmhttp://www.needlenose.com/node/view/3300
Looks like it might be about to happen again. If it does, you guys should lose the Old Testamen – and Revelations. It’s out of touch with reality, violent and riddled with gross inaccuracies. The world would be better off if you guys made some revisions…
Comment by unbelievable — August 27, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
I’m sure it’s tempting to some to cut and paste the Bible. But I’m not about to cherry-pick my God in my own image. Sure, it’s pre-filtered even as I read it, through my experience, my faith, my upbringing. But I always attempt to have a fresh focus, keeping things in perspective. Many picture the Bible as “a big list of don’ts”. To be sure, however, it is more about “do’s,” like “Love thy neighbor.” If we spent more time focusing on what we’ve been called to do, rather than invoking our own little list of rules like “Women shouldn’t be teaching Sunday School,” sort of thing, Christianity, as a message of hope to the world, would be a lot better off.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:01 pmbones,
i always thought there might be a bit more to it than simply being mad- although of course that is also a cause! but while i can see why muslim fanatics could be upset about the way the world is (israel/palestine, centuries of western oppression, etc) what the hell turns the likes of pat robertson mad in the first place?
perhaps he is simply mad from birth, but he has a few too many followers for it to be dismissed quite so easily as that perhaps?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:01 pm150
regarding clinton, i think that the right wing really do find lying about sex the greatest evil of all…
August 27th, 2006 at 3:03 pmWe both know what the president did when he cherry-picked his intelligence, (whoa, I suppose one would have to pre-suppose our president is informed and is intelligent to balance all voices. SCARY).
August 27th, 2006 at 3:04 pmhe pulled out the old ‘just because everybody does it doesn’t make it right’ line. Go figure?
Comment by Quadrajet — August 27, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
It’s just “face saving” answers they give. I used to know when I’d been bested in that line of arguing, but would say something equally obtuse just to make it look like I hadn’t been… Now, as a liberal, I just speak the reality and never have to worry about covering my contradictions. So much less stressful this way…
Does your pop avoid political conversations with you now?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:04 pmSo lets use the faith based reasoning of Pat roberts, et all. With Plan B available girls that would have never had sex with be aborting fetuses everyday conned into sex by evil college guys, then god will get angry at the US and bring about some sort of big disaster….like a flood, or …..maybe a war…. or maybe George Bush as President.
Comment by bones — August 27, 2006 @
Damn, is that why Bush is president? Them youngins better stop having sex, or maybe we should all stop having sex, except for procreation. I could abstain for one day if that would make Bush disappear. The sacrifice would be worth it.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:05 pmYou have to remember, these guys talk from their own perspective. That is what THEY would do, if they had the opportunity.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#154 – and yet so many of them are guilty of it themselves. I don’t remember how many of the repugs on the house committee were discovered to have had extra-marital affairs, which would require lying about sex I’d guess, but Hyde who was leading the charge was one of them. But we’d better quit talking about Clinton – don’t want to rattle any of the troll’s chains:)
August 27th, 2006 at 3:07 pmNo coffins, it would have only worked if Barbara Bush had abstained that one day…..
August 27th, 2006 at 3:09 pmChristianity, as a message of hope to the world, would be a lot better off.
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 3:01 pm
I’m a recovering ex-Catholic who now lives by my ownideology, which I personally believe is more stringent than the religion I used to follow, simply because I defined it myself. I personally and strongly believe that the world would be better off without gods, saviors, magic and teh sort – and instead if people would think for themselves and choose to go good because they choose it and not out of fear of damnation.
Even if you don’t see it, you certainly have defined your god in your own image… because you’re a kind and loving person, you focus on the kind and loving aspects. I think that’s your attribute, and not the influence of some divine being. I think you are due that credit. We’re all too quick to blame ourselves for our “sins”, but never to take credit for our choices to be kind just because we choose it.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:09 pm148,
I think there is a difference between saying that something contains truth, and saying it is literally true. Were i a christian, i would avoid the literal stuff- obviously it is written by men (they didn’t have women in them days!) and focus on the content of what jesus said. I really don’t think that that would be cherry-picking…
oh, and sorry for the awful syntax- i’m a new poster here, and prone to dreadful writing when i’m nervous.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:12 pmbones – well, then Barbara should have abstained. Her sacrifice would have been worth it. Would have saved us all from her frat brat son and all his destruction. Guess it’s water over the dam.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:13 pmPrince, are you from the UK?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:15 pm164,
yes. why?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:16 pmKristol is completely misinformed about the effects of this pill. It does not make either party more attractive or desirable. It does not cause loss of inibitions or consciousness. It doesn’t help college guys snag chicks. I guess it would remove the burden from wingnut fantasys – so bring on the wetdreams, damn the consequences.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pm*161
August 27th, 2006 at 3:21 pmExtemely thought-provoking. But if the message Christ left never existed, we would not have His divine example for all humanity.
Were i a christian, i would avoid the literal stuff- obviously it is written by men (they didn’t have women in them days!) and focus on the content of what jesus said. I really don’t think that that would be cherry-picking…
I actually worked with a guy who said that Science had NEVER proven anything. He was (is, I don’t think he’s died) an architect… It was absurd trying to have rational discussions with him. He was simply incapable because he took his religion so literally that anything within 50 miles of questioning it wasn’t fair game for discourse. It was like trying to have a discussion with a cranky 5 year old two hours past nap time…
Science, if you’re a reasonable person, has clearly and easily debunked the creation myths in Genesis, as well as the myraid of Biblical mythology – such as Noah’s Flood and Moses parting teh Red Sea. But… the think is, there is nothing in teh Bible that says that you get to take it figuratively. It explicitly says “This is the word of God”… that means you’re supposed to take it all… Or leave it, which many of us have done.
oh, and sorry for the awful syntax- i’m a new poster here, and prone to dreadful writing when i’m nervous.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
Nervous? You’re too intelligent and informed to be nervous here :)
My syntax sucks because I spend all week teaching and like the break from speaking like a college professor :) That and the teeny tiny text in the comment box… :)
Well, welcome to TP. We’re happy to have you!
August 27th, 2006 at 3:22 pm*161
August 27th, 2006 at 3:22 pmBut thank you. Would you want to go bowling sometime?
Extemely thought-provoking. But if the message Christ left never existed, we would not have His divine example for all humanity.
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Sure we would, as it’s not really divinely sent – but simply human defined.
Have you ever read anything about Zen Buddhism? It’s what many secular historians believe is the influence on the teachings of Christ. Christ’s message parallels what was human-defined philosophy existing in the far east thousands of years prior to his birth. He wasn’t the first one saying it. Just the first one crediting it to a divine influence (most Buddhists are humanists).
August 27th, 2006 at 3:26 pmI could tell by your British accent. Welcome.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:26 pmPrince – I work for a British owned company and speak with my co-workers across the pond on a regular basis. There are phrases that are British just like there are phrases that are American
August 27th, 2006 at 3:28 pmThis guy is quite the creep, is he not?
Plus, he and his little friends apparently misunderstand how sexually transmitted diseases are transmitted. Those fun-filled precaution-less nights are likely to be followed by many weepy mornings after.
At least no one will be forced to bear their kids.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:29 pmhttp://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm
Implications of points of similarity between the lives of Jesus and Krishna:
Krishna is the second person of the Hindu Trinity. He is considered to be one of the incarnations of the God Vishnu. Some Hindus believe that he lived on Earth during perhaps the 2nd or 3rd century BCE. Yeshua of Nazareth is generally regarded as having been born in Palestine circa 4 to 7 BCE. Thus, if there are many points of similarities between these two individuals, most skeptics and some religious liberals would accept that elements of Krishna’s life were incorporated into the legends associated with Jesus.
#6 & 45: Yeshua and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:32 pm7: Both was sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man.
8 & 46: Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity.
13, 15, 16 & 23: His adoptive human father was a carpenter.
18: A spirit or ghost was their actual father.
21: Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent.
27 & 28: Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
30 to 34: Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna’s parents stayed in Mathura.
41 & 42: Both Yeshua and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
56: Both were identified as “the seed of the woman bruising the serpent’s head.”
58: Jesus was called “the lion of the tribe of Judah.” Krishna was called “the lion of the tribe of Saki.”
60: Both claimed: “I am the Resurrection.”
64: Both referred to themselves having existed before their birth on earth.
66: Both were “without sin.”
72: Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
76, 77, & 78: They were both considered omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
83, 84, & 85: Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured “all manner of diseases.”
86 & 87: Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
101: Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
109 to 112: Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners.
115: Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.
121 to 127: Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
128 to 131: Both descended into Hell, and were resurrected. Many people witnessed their ascensions into heaven.
No, sadly. The closed I’m come to reading anything remotely resembling Zen Buddhism is “Sun TzÅ”, which is not even close:-). But I’m able to read lots of things without going blind.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:33 pm#170 – unbelievable,
Some believe that the missing years of Jesus was when he spent time in India studing Buddhism and that Jesus cured people using Reiki.
Just a theory, but plausible.
I, too, am a recovering Catholic, now turned atheist. I do respect other people’s religion as long as they don’t try to shove it down my throat and try to nationalize it.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:34 pmAt least no one will be forced to bear their kids.
Comment by No Blood for Hubris — August 27, 2006 @ 3:29
Now that is something to be greatful for.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:35 pmunbelievable and coffins, thank you
168,
sure, the bible does tell you to take things literally. or as i remember it, it just says ‘x happened’. it certainly never says anything about taking it figuratively. my point is, i think you can accept that there is truth in the bible, and at the same time think that much of it is plain wrong. that is, there is no truth whatsoever in that part of the bible, no matter how you read it.
i seem to remember reading on wikipedia that some gnostic sects believed that the god of the old testament was some sort of fallen angel, and that jesus was the only actual representative of god.
however, i guess if you follow those ideas you aren’t really a christian- more of a sort of deist or pantheist perhaps?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:39 pmUnbelievable,
August 27th, 2006 at 3:42 pmSo what’s your average?
But I’m able to read lots of things without going blind.
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 3:33 pm
I tell my students that knowledge is power. I believe that. The more I learn, the more I am free to choose and think for myself. The ultimate in freedom, I think :)
I read a book on Zen Buddhism after I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenece, which I had read because a college student at my firm had a copy and told me how great she thought it was. It was the start of a whole lot of non-traditional reading for me that opened new doors to knowledge…
I could never go back to blind faith of anything. I think it’s what has gotten us into so much trouble with our government. Because if you don’t know that what they are telling you isn’t true, how can you be the skeptic that Thomas Jefferson wanted you to be? It all ties in together…
August 27th, 2006 at 3:44 pmThe following are the characteristics of the “sun of God”:
The sun “dies” for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be “born of a Virgin.”
The sun is the “Light of the World.”
The sun “cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him.”
The sun rising in the morning is the “Savior of mankind.”
The sun wears a corona, “crown of thorns” or halo.
The sun “walks on water.”
The sun’s “followers,” “helpers” or “disciples” are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the “Most High”; thus, “he” begins “his Father’s work” at “age” 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the “Sun of God” begins his ministry at “age” 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or “crucified,” which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins5.htm
August 27th, 2006 at 3:44 pmI’ve heard of “The Zen of Pooh”, but not “motorcycle maintenance” And yes you are right. To quote my favorite Pres: “To stand by the president, right or wrong, it is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American people.”
August 27th, 2006 at 3:48 pm~ Theodore Roosevelt
There are some truths in the bible. The Old Testament has stories that can be proven true through artifacts. And then there are parables which were written to teach people better behavior. As for food rituals and sex, the bible has rules to protect the health of the people.
- abstain from pork… pigs were unhealthy animals that contained worms in their flesh therefore transferring these parasites to humans.
- sex… people were having a good old time and spreading STD’s everywhere so therefore, the rabbi’s put a kabash on this free wheelilng sexual behaviors.
The Muslims have a similar health habit built into their religion – washing their hands before they eat. Very good health practice.
Religious rulers new that they only way that they could get compliance by the people was by making certain behaviors sinful.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:50 pmhowever, i guess if you follow those ideas you aren’t really a christian- more of a sort of deist or pantheist perhaps?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 3:39 pm
Before I left the church, I had some friends say that to me, that I wasn’t really Catholic if I didn’t buy the system 100%. I remember arguing the point then, but I later came to agree with them. That the Catholic church says that the Bible is the word of god, period, and there is no room for dissent.
I don’t have peoblems with people believing in something spiritual on their own terms. But I do have huge problems with organized religion which segregates and teaches hatred for the most part. There are a those who modify the ideology to fit their own views – but it is those who follow it by the line who are destroying this country.
I guess I just don’t see why people can’t individually define their ideology? Why folow something pre-prescribed? Who knows you and your views better than you? I guess that’s my biggest sticking point – telling people that they can’t define themselves because they are ’sinners’. No wonder people run around acting so poorly.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:51 pmSo what’s your average?
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
In what regard?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:52 pm183,
Exactly, any factual truth in the bible is not there because of the brilliance of god (although you’d have thought he knew more about his own creation) but through a combination of custom and the demands of circumstances.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:53 pmI’ve heard of “The Zen of Poohâ€, but not “motorcycle maintenance†And yes you are right. To quote my favorite Pres: “To stand by the president, right or wrong, it is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American people.â€
~ Theodore Roosevelt
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 3:48 pm
I read the Tao of Pooh, but it was over my head at the time. I didn’t get how something could be both good and bad simultaneously. Thanks for reminding me, I think I’m going to read it again. It’s been about 15 years I think…
Nice quote! I take it you are a liberal? Most conservatives tend to go for the ‘kill the enemies’ version of Christianity.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:55 pmunbelievable – I checked out your link. Baltar, the troll, would have a breakdown if he read that post.
The trolls must be taking a vacation day today. Thought they would be here preaching.
August 27th, 2006 at 3:56 pmDoesn’t it strike people as odd that a grown man would discuss matters of sexuality between college sudents in such a lacivious, irresponsible way. Kristol doesn’t seem aware of sexual relationships that are more than a wild night of piggish revelry. Clearly, to Kristol sex is the dirty deed, and it’s fun because it’s something a guy can do to a girl. He says it’s even more fun now, and that is why he’s opposed to plan B. Somebody really ought to get this guy to a shrink, his neurosis are showing in public, and that seems indiscrete. For a man with an education he seems rather unschooled in sexuality, relationships and the attendant responsibilities. Perhaps he just doesn’t have much experience in any of these things. He sounds quite adolescent doesn’t he?
August 27th, 2006 at 3:57 pm*185-
August 27th, 2006 at 4:01 pmSorry, I think you missed my invitation to go bowling. Just imagine if people could settle their differences of a rack of 10 X 10. (Am I going “John Lennon” here?)
184,
Indeed. Once we abandon our moral independence we are deep inside Adolf “I was just a clerk in an office” Eichmann territory. It isn’t so much the actual beliefs that worry me, more the fact that the believers abandon any pretence at responsibility for their own moral actions.
189,
Hasn’t it struck you as odd that a celibate 80yr old man sat in Rome effectively sets the policy on AIDS, contraception and homosexuality in about half of the developing world?
August 27th, 2006 at 4:05 pmunbelievable – I checked out your link. Baltar, the troll, would have a breakdown if he read that post.
Baltar? Is he an iteration of Antagonist? I haven’t met that one yet. I’ve not been around as much lately.
Most of the literalists hate me. They are the ones I target, because they are the ones who want to turn us into a theocracy… Tolerating them is the same as toletaring Hitler who wanted to kill Jews instead of Muslims in teh name of god, you know?
The trolls must be taking a vacation day today. Thought they would be here preaching.
Comment by Coffins draped with flags — August 27, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
Maybe Judd cleaned house last night? I did notice the latest versions of Santo were all banned and deleted along with some new freaks.
Personally, I like to debate teh issues. Keeps the pencil sharp, you know? But the serious trolls are only interested in flaming and insults.
I hope Mighty A is the next to depart us…
August 27th, 2006 at 4:07 pmSorry, I think you missed my invitation to go bowling. Just imagine if people could settle their differences of a rack of 10 X 10. (Am I going “John Lennon†here?)
Comment by tru_thordare — August 27, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
Bowling for Columbine? Just kidding… :)
Well, whatever the lowest average you can have is – that would be me. I do well the first four or five frames until my arm gets tired (out of lack of throuwing bowling balls on a regular basis, i suppose), and then they all are gutter bound.
Careful, John Lennon did say “Imagine there’s no heaven… ” :)
August 27th, 2006 at 4:10 pm*187
August 27th, 2006 at 4:13 pmYou’d be correct. “But how can this be?” you may ask. A Christian a liberal? How do you think the duck-billed platupus came into being? And sadly, many evangelicals agree that it was perfectly fine for Israel to bomb the snot out of Lebenon for allowing Hezbolah to roam their streets. But isn’t that the same arguement “irrelevant” Osama gave for vaporizing civilians in the twin towers, that they elected a government who stood against Islam? Christians around the world need to remember “who” their audience is before they open their big mouths. More often they speak their own ignorance, before they speak the word of God.
Hasn’t it struck you as odd that a celibate 80yr old man sat in Rome effectively sets the policy on AIDS, contraception and homosexuality in about half of the developing world?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 4:05 pm
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day! :) Hope you decide to stick around here!
Well guys, as much as I enjoy this mature dialog for a change, gotta get some stuff done around the house.
Thanks for the adult conversation everyone! And – Judd – thanks for the platform to do it!
Hope you all have a wonderful week!
August 27th, 2006 at 4:14 pmPresuming, of course, that these intelligent college guys trust that their paramour will take the morning after pill. “But, duh, she SAID she wuz gunna . . . and here I am in this trailer park with mah boy. I named him Surpise.”
August 27th, 2006 at 4:14 pm*193
August 27th, 2006 at 4:28 pmLOL I believe he also said, “I am bigger than Jesus Christ.” For all I know, Rush might’ve thought the same thing, even if he didn’t say it. If you’d rather, how ’bout PING-PONG. That’s closer to Zen than bowling. In any case, I think I’ve gotten a little offtrack. My point is, Kristol is a wack-nut and he needs to be sedated and in a straight jaket with the rest of ‘em, EXPLITIVES galore. This country is SO misguided it’s pathetic, and how we allowed these neo-cons to govern our lives only goes to prove our voices, (and our ballots), weren’t loud enough that the common American ear might listen for a moment between their Fox News, Blackberry, Nintendo and the like. Heck, wasn’t it said recently that the American public had an easier time naming “The Three Stooges” than the three branches of government?
In my experience men who want sex for a 1 night stand are not concerned with birth control in the first place,some in relationships don’t either.I have a14 yr old daughter and as far as I know she has not as yet engaged in sex BUT I have had discussions with her about the possible ramifications if she has unprotected sex.Not only pregnancy but the std’s she could contract.These are all hings my mom did not discuss w/ me in the 80s and I still to this day consider myself lucky I did not contract AIDS or something equally as serious.I was pregnant w/ my son when I graduated high school.It was not wild 1 night sex but a relationship of over a yr by that time.It was abusive but i thought i had to stay for the baby.I left when he was 1 and married a wonderful man when he was 2.There are more detrimental things to women than pregnancy and not every girl will use plan b for birth control.I do feel safer knowing if she were raped anywhere this pill is available.Don’t say it will impede a police investigation because most women don’t go because of the stima AND the lack of support they get from the police.
August 27th, 2006 at 4:33 pm191
Hasn’t it struck you as odd that a celibate 80yr old man sat in Rome effectively sets the policy on AIDS, contraception and homosexuality in about half of the developing world?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 4:05 pm
That is not the subject of the post, but yes I do find it exceedingly odd. Is your point about what a bunch of sheep inhabit the world? Surely it can’t be about elected leadership, even though we are all able to pontificate, not all are elected Pope.
August 27th, 2006 at 4:45 pmKristol’s powers of prediction are legendary. Afterall, he’s the one who told us how well things would go in Iraq if we only followed his PNAC proposal. Let’s just call him Bill “Kristol Ball”
August 27th, 2006 at 4:50 pm199,
This is what I was picking up on. I was agreeing with you that it is absurd that those who do the most to set the moral agenda are also the most divorced from the facts on the ground.
Although it is probably true that a bunch of sheep inhabit the world, the fact is that a lot of the people in the developing world do not have access to good education- in part of course due to the policies of the developed world. In the absence of a good education it is much more difficult to make informed decisions about right and wrong.
The pope claims absolute moral authority, as the representative of god and as the head of the catholic church. As far as I know if you are a catholic you follow the pope. Indirectly then, the pope has a big hand in the attitudes of developing countries towards contraception et alia.
August 27th, 2006 at 4:57 pm*198
August 27th, 2006 at 4:57 pmhmmm, the things we bring unto ourselves. I’m not referring to you so much as I’m referring to men. Nice that plan B is around, but isn’t plan A always the preferred method? I’ve a tween myself, and personally, I’m scared to death. But I think I’ve conditioned her enough to question EVERYTHING that she’ll fare just fine. She’s extremely intelligent, to the point that her “old man” is merely the “man behind the curtain”. But that’s ok; at least I’ve spoken my piece. I fear more for the first innocent SOB that walks down MY driveway to ring MY doorbell. I was thirteen once, I remember. I’ll keep an eye out for him, but I’d like to think my daughter has the personal self-esteem to tell so-and-so’s where they can get off.
Kristol looks like he’s retarded – those weird tiny pinched eyes (like he can’t see), that strange flaxen hair – kind of like a pinhead. Not to diss pinheads, of course. But retardation/mental illness might explain his fascistic attitudes. He’s obviously deeply confused by life, I’m afraid.
August 27th, 2006 at 5:16 pmGee, another penis trying to control women.
August 27th, 2006 at 5:22 pm#
Presuming, of course, that these intelligent college guys trust that their paramour will take the morning after pill. “But, duh, she SAID she wuz gunna . . . and here I am in this trailer park with mah boy. I named him Surpise.â€
Comment by Bob Siegmann — August 27, 2006 @ 4:14 pm
Point well taken. like the name “Surprise”. I could have used that name for both my daughters… they were a surprise, but a pleasant welcomed surprise.
August 27th, 2006 at 5:24 pm“Plan B” is nothing new to college campuses. More than 20 years ago at a very conservative southern college (and probably everywhere else), it was an open secret that the campus infirmary would provide a “morning after” solution, basically the same double-dose of birth-control medicine.
Likewise, doctors for many years have told women to “make up” doses when they forget.
And as far as Kristol: if he hasn’t had a condom break, he hasn’t used them very much. If for no other reason, “Plan B” can be justified to compensate for this.
August 27th, 2006 at 5:39 pm201
The pope claims absolute moral authority, as the representative of god and as the head of the catholic church. As far as I know if you are a catholic you follow the pope. Indirectly then, the pope has a big hand in the attitudes of developing countries towards contraception et alia.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 4:57 pm
As we all can see, be it the Pope or President or politician, one may claim whatever moral authority they wish. It is a trickier matter to get people to comply with those moral precepts. True, these offices utiilize power to prevent the disemination of information to the detriment of populations. That said, human behavior and nature takes it course and the influence would be more apparent in the guilt suffered rather than behavior changed, even when the precept is embraced. Remind me who it was that said something to the effect, Princes and Popes work closely to maintain and control an ignorant populace.
August 27th, 2006 at 5:42 pmChristiniaty is Platonism for the people. Who said it and why did … say that.
Greetings …
August 27th, 2006 at 5:53 pm201
the fact is that a lot of the people in the developing world do not have access to good education- in part of course due to the policies of the developed world. In the absence of a good education it is much more difficult to make informed decisions about right and wrong.
This is an itriguing thought. Here we have Kristol with the benefit of a great education who is either suffering from arrested development or control issues. Anyway, you would suppose a man with that background would value the knowlege and not begrudge it to others. You would further suppose that he would not feel it was his baliwick to determine what others did with said information. So, why does he feel it necessary to proffer an opinion? My God, Bill Kristol thinks he’s the Pope!
August 27th, 2006 at 5:53 pm209,
Insofar as he believes he has absolute moral authority, yes he does believe he is the pope.
I said: ‘in the absence of a good education’. This is not the same as stating that education=knowledge of right and wrong. It enables one to make better decisions, but that is not the same.
208,
Nietzsche- and it should be fairly obvious why
August 27th, 2006 at 6:03 pm210
This is not the same as stating that education=knowledge of right and wrong.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 27, 2006 @ 6:03 pm
I absolutely agree!!
August 27th, 2006 at 6:08 pmKristol should be the one who’s happier. Now he can go out whore hunting without any probelms what so ever, wheeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 27th, 2006 at 6:13 pmvia crooks and liars…
August 27th, 2006 at 6:27 pm…Plan-B contains doses of the hormone Progestin which prevents the release or fertilization of an egg…
No released eggs means no fertilization, no fetus, nothing. So this leaves these groups with three options:
1. Concede that science may have finally found a way to eliminate abortions, pack up their bags and go home.
2. Stick their fingers in their ears and go la la la la…
3. Admit that their objection isn’t really to abortion, but to contraception — or better yet, to people having sex.
…
http://www.needlenose.com/node/view/3300
Seems to me if people are in actuality thinking they can whore around because now there’s plan b — they’d also be thinking about birth control. condums and spermicides are much cheaper. i don’t think teenagers give that much thought to this. I think the bigger fear of Kristol and his ilk are that it empowers women. Now even the wife can take a pill and not even the husband will be any wiser. That’s what they REALLY fear.
August 27th, 2006 at 6:29 pmKaty if you go to the Plan B site, you’ll see the line “may prevent implantation of a fertilized egg”. This line is very contentious, and nobody actually knows this. So the neocon objection is that a “fertilized egg’ ie…”baby” is being “flushed” out of the mom (see blastocyst arguement). As a matter of fact that is their whole contraception arguement, even though the true agenda is control of women at the most basic level, especially since the “barefoot and pregnant, submit to your husband” thing doesn’t work anymore.
August 27th, 2006 at 6:34 pmi understand, bones…
my purpose for the post was #3…
plus, your last sentence and beth’s comment are even
August 27th, 2006 at 6:43 pmcloser to the point…
As a college student myself, that is about the lamest comment I have ever heard. Kristol is completely out of touch.
August 27th, 2006 at 7:10 pmIf it was up to Bill Kristol and his similarly idiotic, out of touch friends at Fox, women would not have sex unelss they were married. Grow up. Get over it. We women have premarital sex, and we also have the responsibility of having to raise a child if we become pregnant, and want to carry the zygote to term. It is our body, and our decision. So, tend to you own lives, and keep out of the business of others.
August 27th, 2006 at 7:38 pmIt is a real pity to see these moralizing conservatives abandon their core beliefs.
August 27th, 2006 at 7:45 pmIt is a matter of economics and nothing else. Women can chose what type of
birth control is the most economically viable. Most will probably choose the least
expensive which would be condoms or the pill. The morning after drug will be too
costly except for those that have infrequent intercourse. So in reality, true conservatives should be in favor of the morning after pill because it merely provides the consumer with another choice which is what free markets are about.
Facts? Kristol doesn’t need no stinking facts!
August 27th, 2006 at 8:28 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
There’s no such thing as “Plan B.” I mean, it’s not a new drug. It’s just two doses of a high-hormone birth control pill, such as Ovral. Since an entire MONTH’S worth of such pills doesn’t usually cost $34 (if you have insurance, at least), it’s inconceivable that these two pills are worth $34. It’s just more pharmaceutical greed, nothing new there.
Young women should get themselves prescribed some old-fashioned high-hormone birth control pills and then save a couple for use as their own personal “Plan B.” Pretty simple.
The age thing will be worked around as well. I’m sure most 16- and 17-year-olds know an 18-year-old who will buy the pills for them. Same as all 16-20-year-olds know a 21-year-old who will score their liquor.
I’m not saying this is the best arrangement, obviously it would be best if these pills were available for free or for a nominal charge to ANYONE who needs them, but with the religiously insane in charge of the country, women and girls will find a way to get what they need by other means.
And I’m with those who say men have never given a shit about getting women pregnant and Plan B won’t change that. They don’t even give a shit about STDs because it’s FAR easier for women to get them than men. Men do not suffer any consequences as far as I can tell from their promiscuity, not even social stigma (what’s the female equivalent of a player? oh yeah, a slut).
August 27th, 2006 at 8:41 pmI’ve bought Plan B over the counter in France for years. No, I don’t use it as birth control, and it isn’t healthy to do so. It’s an emergency measure, and Kristol’s prediction has not come true in France.
Moreover, any guy who relies on a girl to use Plan B the morning after is an idiot. Another word for him is likely to be “Daddy.”
August 27th, 2006 at 8:51 pmI guarantee, but haven’t had the time to quickly fact check this, that the same argument was made 40 years ago during Griswold v. Conn. (OTC distribution of condoms) and look where we are now.
August 27th, 2006 at 9:23 pmI came into Fox this morning and one of our younger colleagues who works here, a guy just out of college a couple of years, said all his friends in who are still college are very happy about this — all his guy friends, his male friends who are still in college are happy about this. They have a wild night. Precautions aren’t taken. The burden is now totally off them. They tell their girlfriend to go out and get this drug and no problems at all. And I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the the country.
Well, well, well, Billllllly Kristol. Isn’t this revealing. A Fox News, Billy-Kristol-wannabe takes this as a ticket to be irresponsible. [except that's not EXACTLY what the kid said], so…. a Fox news stringer…. now wait a minute, demographically politically what kind of person would be working as a stringer for Fox news???
Let’s see: what kind of answer would be get from the recent grads working at say… Democracy Now, or [phooph] let’s go “middle of the road conservative”. Let’s go interview the college grad guys at NPR or….. PBS. Wonder what their answer would be.
Oh well….. this is worthless… Sorry I wasted the space, … except now I’m curious.
August 27th, 2006 at 9:52 pm“Stick their fingers in their ears and go la la la la…”
This is the most common reaction Republicans have after they ask for a Liberal to debate them, then the Liberal publicly exposes them as some kind of retard.
August 27th, 2006 at 10:44 pmand people still listen to bill kristol why?
August 27th, 2006 at 11:05 pmJust look at Bill. Look very close. He is the reason we are in and occupying Iraq today. Mister PNAC himself. Bill Kristol is nothing but a sanctimonious, blow-hard boob. He believes that just because he has tons of money and connections that he can promote himself as the keeper of America’s future. This man is so far out of touch with reality that he probably will soon claim to be able to cure every disease known to mankind. He is just another neocon charlatan wanting it all for himself and expecting all of American humanity to captiulate to his whims.
In short, he belongs in jail with everyone from Bush on down. Utterly disgraceful people.
August 27th, 2006 at 11:38 pm#184 unbelievable
” Before I left the church, I had some friends say that to me, that I wasn’t really Catholic if I didn’t buy the system 100%.”
Reading the comments here I was thinking the same thoughts about Liberalism !So here goes !
We hear so much about the male domination of nature but no one here has raised the question the possibility of contraception ( technology ) altering the biological interaction between the sexes .From where I stand the only difference between men and women is sexuality.Remove modern contraception and sex is no longer casual and perhaps that wouldn’t be all bad .Single parenthood may not be the best situation for a child or parents with children from multiple failed relationships .
August 28th, 2006 at 12:44 amPerhaps casual sex is destructive and the cause of real heart break .Many people feel personal freedom is more important then love ( very dogmatic in my opinion ) .I believe the most important thing in life is love and that our technology is not the ultimate answer but love is . As a parent and a spouse this seems obvious !
Love is the answer , not shallow pleasures .With all of our technologies we can work magic but I don’t believe all our efforts can produce real happiness without love .
Happiness comes from a sense of the sacred and what is sacred is not to be altered by man ,which is why it is sacred .It gave birth to us and is the real reason for our being here.
I thinkI couldnt disagree more on this issue with virtually every post I read here . Perhaps I don’t buy 100 % into the church of modern liberalism .Your treating the sacred as a casual pleasure .
This is not to say that contraception does not have its place … but …it may be a little more complicated than BETTER LIVING THRU CHEMISTRY !
Ever read the song of songs or Rumi or Kabir or Farid al din attar ? Love is the rock of ages
August 28th, 2006 at 12:52 amcause I know deep in my mind the love of me I’ve left behind
cause I’ll be loving you always Stevie
you make some decent points, freeman, but unfortunately it’s not so cut and dry.
speaking as another person who doesn’t buy 100% into the church of liberalism, i have to say that i think liberals have no bearing on who is treating the sacred as a casual pleasure. none. in fact, the so-called “fertility gap” totally undermines your assertions here, suggesting that contraception is simply bad for republicans because it costs them voters (undereducated, working class “values” voters, and single mothers that have recently tended to vote republican). this, as much as the supposed moral issues, is why republicans don’t like it.
the truth is that this isn’t a “liberal” or “conservative” issue, it’s a “reality” issue. people have casual sex. people have unwanted pregnancies. they always have, and they always will. our notion of conventional marriage is really only a recent one (last couple of hundred years).
i think the ultimate question in my mind regarding this situation is — if a child is going to be terminated anyway, which is worse: plan b, or being left in a dumpster? sorry to break it down like that, but unfortunately it is relevant.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:03 amDefinitely not a black and white issue ,I agree but people have not always had casual sex .Take away birth control and it a totally different game .One whose rules have been a million years in the making .Not a fad . Personally feminism lost me when it stood with the pope in my bedroom .
August 28th, 2006 at 1:09 amEver heard of a shot gun wedding ,it isn’t real casual .Divorce sounded like a good idea if there was an abusive situation .Now apparently commitment is always abusive .Love is the religion of the son of man and knowing myself I couldn’t agree more .
August 28th, 2006 at 1:15 amThis news post is less enlightening then the LIBERAL attitudes rreflected here .I’m married 22 years and my wife and kids are more important to me than I am to myself andf alot more fullfilling than a singles bar !
did you ever wonder why they call prostitution “the oldest profession”, freeman?
The truth is, from mesopotamian society through to modern times, humans have indulged in every kind of sexual behavior — adultery, homosexuality, transgenderism, exhibitionism, prostitution, sadism/masochism, zoophilia, necrophilia — so those rules a million years in the making have been broken every day for the entirety of recorded human history. birth control was leaving unwanted children on a mountain to die of exposure.
seriously, if you want to research it yourself, be my guest.
ever heard the phrase, “the horse has already bolted”? because that is what we have here. more than 6 billion humans (300 million plus in the u.s.) having sex in every imaginable way possible. with or without birth control. it is, as they say, instinctive.
now, your dedication to your family is very admirable, and that’s how you influence society. happy children who are the product of a stable and loving family tend to like the idea of being in stable and loving families. and seeking similar stable societies.
but casual sex and unwanted children aren’t a product of our society, but a product of our humanity. we have to be realistic about this. taking away birth control isn’t going to get people to stop having casual sex, but good education and good parenting are pretty effective, it turns out.
and incidentally, i know plenty of LIBERAL couples who are happily married with children. there’s nothing deviant or “abusive” about their families as far as i can tell, so i don’t think that’s a fair comment at all.
for every “liberal” pervert you can name, i’ll bet i can come up with a “conservative” one, so don’t play that right-wing propaganda card because it is well worn out by now. its root is divisiveness and it’s just another prejudice against a fellow american with whom you happen to disagree. rise above the silly partisan rhetoric.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:13 amFor every liberal pervert you can name I can name 2 conservative ones.
His theory is bunk anyway. Most college clinics are free or health insur10ance is very cheap. A college girl could easily go there to get birth control for a $20 co-pay. I hardly see Plan B increasing sexual deviance.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:33 amI thought about this alot over the weekend. Who gives a crap what Kristol thinks?!
August 28th, 2006 at 8:53 amKristol cares about one thing: Killing Muslims.
Who talks to Kristol about Plan B? Jesus Christ. It’s the end of the crappy world. That’s all there is to it.
Rex it seems to me that you, like the pope are only half right .I don’t think only liberals have casual sex at all , and I don’t believe contraception ,like all technology is inherently evil .I do believe that it takes wisdom to use technology intelligently and that means knowing when not to use it and the ramifications of using it .
August 28th, 2006 at 10:04 amI believe firmly that human behavior has been altered and not for the better by a wholesale approach to birth control .
Casual sex and organized religion are both oxymoron’s .
Oh and just for the record ,I treat Kristols BS the same way as I treat MA’s posts ,I skip them .Kristol is lecturing about social behavior while he advocates the murder and death of innocents as foreign policy .He’s a sociopath !
August 28th, 2006 at 10:08 am[...] You can see the video at Thinkprogress. [...]
August 28th, 2006 at 10:09 amTommorrow you will wake to see what you have broken and torn in your drunkenness tonight .
August 28th, 2006 at 10:12 amRumi
cool! so I don’t have to use condoms anymore!?
That kristol is about as bright as a 20 watt light bulb.
August 28th, 2006 at 11:04 am[...] Click here to watch. [...]
August 28th, 2006 at 11:54 am#152
I agree with that analysis. Now if we could get Islam on the same track.
August 28th, 2006 at 11:56 am#184
“But I do have huge problems with organized religion which segregates and teaches hatred for the most part.”
Only from what you know from personal experience, which is VERY limited.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:01 pmQuite simply put, Kristol and his ilk do not have enough moral integrity to act in a manner they believe to be moral (in this case, to not have promiscuous and unprotected sex), unless someone else is ENFORCING that ‘morality’ upon them. But enforced morality is not morality: it is control. Morality REQUIRES the freedom to act in the ‘immoral’ manner, yet having the WILL and the integrity to not act in a manner one believes to be immoral. One chooses to be ‘moral’ because one believes it is right, not because one fears punishment.
The approach is one of projection: they project their own inner desires and reactions onto a general group (”college boys”). The moral problem here is that these “college boys” do not have respect for women IF what he says is true (and it may be, to some degree). Time to teach these “college boys” some morals about dealing with the other gender, and NOT excusing behavior as “boys will be boys”.
Also note the chavanism inherent in his comment: it is those “boys” who are happy (and not to blame – he blames the medication, not the lack of will or morals in the “boys”). Yet there are quite a few young ladies who are pleased with the availability (and not just those who have a need – say in the case of still all too common date-rape… though I’ll bet Kristol and his kind deny that there is such a thing as date rape: it’s “that girl’s” fault, to them).
August 28th, 2006 at 12:17 pmThinking of Kristol’s smug, fleshy face is birth control enough for me.
August 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmKristol and your ilk. Please show me the research data and charts that back up your proclamations. Kristol, which male college students did you survey? What were the survey questions? Other Plan B opponents, please show me the figures that prove women will start having sex all the time with anything and anyone once Plan B is available.
Please respond with proof or STFU.
August 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pmfreeman,
first, i’m not the pope, i don’t want to be in anyone’s bedroom, and i don’t want anybody in my bedroom (besides my girlfriend, of course). my only point was that you were dead wrong when you said, “people have not always had casual sex.”
it’s just absolutely not true.
i have to disagree that human behavior has been altered for the worse. i think that moving from a time when unwanted children were more often left to die of exposure (and horrible suffering) to a time when we have essentiallly humane solutions to our age-old problem of preventing unwanted children is a vast improvement. it’s only backwards thinking fundamentalists that, in a fit of morality and naive ruminations of “better times”, want us to revert to a heartless society that ignores its problems.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:10 pmYour treating the sacred as a casual pleasure .
This is not to say that contraception does not have its place … but …it may be a little more complicated than BETTER LIVING THRU CHEMISTRY !
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 12:44 am
I don’t believe it is sacred. I believe it is an innate survival trait. Therein lies a dogmatic impasse.
One of my students told me today that he got a girl pregnant. He is 17. Has a 99 average in my class. He can’t control himself. His brain isn’t fully developed at his age and his hormones are stronger than his will. It’s simply nature’s way of ensuring a survival of the species – dumb and horney.
You can call it sacred, but i just don’t see it. At all.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:04 pmOnly from what you know from personal experience, which is VERY limited.
Comment by Tracy — August 28, 2006 @ 12:01 pm
I know you tell yourself lies to feel better about the fact that you blindly accept some pretty ignorant stuff, but it doesn’t make it so.
It’s actually education and knowledge that make the obvious clear. And from our conversations, it’s clear that you are the only one with a limited knowledge of reality.
It is why yours is called ‘faith’…
August 28th, 2006 at 6:06 pmIs sex only sacred when humans ‘do it’, or is it sacred when animals ‘do it’ too?
August 28th, 2006 at 6:29 pmMost of the more cognitively developed animals, such as dolphins and chimpanzees, have been observed having recreational sex.
And even so, what actually makes sex sacred in the first place?
what actually makes sex sacred in the first place?
it’s not when a catholic priest does it.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:30 pmremember, only faith is strong enough to completely disregard all evidence to the contrary!
August 28th, 2006 at 6:31 pm252,
jah. i thought that it was only after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that sexual desire was awakened in Adam and Eve…
If that is true for Christians, how can they maintain that sex is anything to do with god? I seem to remember, however, that many, many cults are based around sexual orgies as a way of getting closer to the divine- Bacchus (although he was the wine god) and Mithras, for example.
I thought Christianity was about devoting yourself to god and jesus- mind, body and soul.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:35 pm“…it’s clear that you are the only one with a limited knowledge of reality.”
The real reality of MOST organized religion is not the way you try to con people here into thinking it is. This is why I said that you have a very limited personal experience with organized religious teaching as being “all or nothing”. Being a former Catholic explains this perfectly. As far as I can tell you have had very limited experience witth organized religion.
“It’s actually education and knowledge that make the obvious clear.”
That would be you though with architecture and the practice thereof.
“It is why yours is called ‘faith’…”
My education, knowledge, and concept of reality is not based on faith. What exactly have I mentioned that would lead you to such an assumption.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:51 pmactually tracy, most organized religion is now institutionalized and has the sole purpose of perpetuating the institution. the actual ideas and faith behind them don’t matter as much as protecting and enlarging the institution.
it goes like this:
someone has an idea. the idea becomes a movement. the movement becomes an entrenched concept. and the entrenched concept becomes an institution, no longer beholden to the idea, but only serving to perpetuate to the institution itself.
that’s “organized religion” in a nutshell.
and don’t go trying to say i have no idea what i’m talking about, because you would be sorely mistaken. i’ve spent many years studying the effects of religion in society.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:06 pmIn Sufi literature God is referred to as the beloved .The major world religions teach that true peace of mind comes from going beyond the small self which is beset with endless pains and fleeting satisfactions to a larger self which is above the changes and disappointments that human flesh is heir to .
August 28th, 2006 at 7:33 pmLove is not all that abstract a concept .Most other animals are born and stand up and walk with in hours or minutes .Human off spring take years and are fed clothed and sheltered by the love of their parents !Parents whom for the most part would sacrifice themselves for their children without a second thought !
While looking after # 1 is what is supposed to be so important and empowering ,most modern citizens can’t even grow a string bean on their own or sew a shirt or fix a car .Modern humans are more dependent on their fellows than at any other time in history and really couldn’t survive with out the endless services ( love )provided by others who essentially feed clothe and shelter them .
The drive to sex ( love ) spells out ,atleast for most, that being alone is not a happy condition but instead begin a search for love and a mate ,to live with and for .Again nature points out to us that we are part of a greater whole .
Are bodies need the plants to provide air ,trees are our lungs ,We are made up of minerals ,cows ,chickens wheat ,apples and water and are not sufficient in ourselves but part of a greater whole which sustains us .
love conceived us ,and took endless pains to spoon feed us and wipe our asses for years when we were incapable of doing it ourselves and yet we are independent ? Our actions affect the world around us and since we are interconnected with that world ,they directly affect us as well .
How many people are hurt by being treated casually in sex ? Your actions don’t happen in a vacuum ,they affect others .
The real reality of MOST organized religion is not the way you try to con people here into thinking it is.
Again, yours requires faith… mine is simply pointing out facts. I’m not the one conning anyone. Faith is the con. After all, it’s saying that something can’t be taken on its own merits, so you just have to believe… My view IS the merits.
This is why I said that you have a very limited personal experience with organized religious teaching as being “all or nothingâ€.
I didn’t say it was all or nothing. I said it was absurd, irrational and ridiculous.
Being a former Catholic explains this perfectly. As far as I can tell you have had very limited experience witth organized religion.
I wasn’t just a Catholic. I tried Baptist, Methodist, non-denominational and Unitarian. Hardly limited.
The fact that you insult Catholicism is more indictative of your very limited experience with organized religion. Not mine.
That would be you though with architecture and the practice thereof.
You agree with my architectural assessments.
My education, knowledge, and concept of reality is not based on faith. What exactly have I mentioned that would lead you to such an assumption.
Comment by Tracy — August 28, 2006 @ 6:51 pm
The fact that you defend faith.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:38 pmComment by progressaurus rex — August 28, 2006 @ 7:06 pm
Well said.
Tracy just needs to ‘believe’ we don’t know what we are talking about because he cannot handle the fact that rational adults would reject his religious beliefs.
Knowledge is power.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:40 pmHow many people are hurt by being treated casually in sex ? Your actions don’t happen in a vacuum ,they affect others .
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 7:33 pm
I’m an Atheist. Remove the god from your argument and you have no argument to me.
I think the problem isn’t sex, but the belief that it is sacred that hurts people. For instance – if you were to raise a group of children to believe that taking a bath is sacred, well, occasionally, some of them would be harmed by incidents arrising out of too hot bath water or the sort. It’s the perception that hurts you and not the thing itself. So change the perception, since you’re definitely going to stop sex.
I realize you won’t get this. You need to believe.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:44 pmSo change the perception, since you’re definitely not going to stop sex
August 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pmCould you have survived with out your parents ?Would you have been born if they hadn’t needed one another ?Do you have children ? Can love hurt ?Is anything sacred ?
August 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pma quote from the Tao te ching
” do you think you can take the universe and improve it ?
I do not believe it can be done ,
the universe is sacred you can not improve it
try to hold it and you lose it
try to change it and you will ruin it .
Lao Tzu
I’m a buddhist .
August 28th, 2006 at 7:47 pmBecause there is no Buddhism ,which is just a fancy turn of phrase , the universe is too vast to be caught in a philosophy or religion ,which are usefull models perhaps but not equal to the infinite .
August 28th, 2006 at 7:49 pmWrong this 17 year old boy isn’t looking for love because he is following a culturally imported philosophy but because there is more to life than the self , because he belongs to a whole which he has his existence in and if he is wise also gives him his place in it .Thats not a fad , or an ism , but the beginning of wisdom .
August 28th, 2006 at 7:53 pmAs per # 265 no model is accurate ( physics uncertainty principle ) .That doesn’t bode well for the literal interpretation of religion or feminism or any ism .If you expect a certain result you influence the experiment .
August 28th, 2006 at 8:00 pmsorry freeman.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pm17 year old boys want to get laid. it’s what they do.
try to change it and you will ruin it .
Lao Tzu
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 7:46 pm
Change is the constant in the universe.
Didn’t say change the universe – just your perceptions. They are, after all, your choice…
Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans. I choose to participate.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:06 pmI meant # 264
August 28th, 2006 at 8:08 pmBut allow me to include liberalism and conservatism to my list . 2 halves of a whole which is larger than the model .
Zen ( religion )is like a finger pointing at the moon ,and most people look at the finger and say …..what a beautiful moon .
Zen saying
Jesus spoke in parables so there is no literal interpretation available .Look in your heart for the answer .
GOD
this 17 year old boy isn’t looking for love
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 7:53 pm
No, he’s looking for sex. Just like Rex said. Apparently the girl is someone he used only for that reason and doesn’t even like. There is no love. Just raw animal instinct. As the universe made it…
August 28th, 2006 at 8:09 pmSo if you assault some one and hurt them they no longer need to feel pain ?That seems a little easy .
August 28th, 2006 at 8:10 pmGOD
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 8:08 pm
My heart does not over rule my brain. And my brain says that there is no god. Even Buddhists believe that the debate over one and the worship of one is a waste of time because there is no evidence for one.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:11 pmbtw un-b,
i thought it was funnier when you said freeman was definitely going to stop sex!
no offense, freeman, but these maxims you spout are not going to deter anyone from their instinctive urge to explore their sexuality. it’s a natural thing; if we attempt to call it “sacred” we stray into creating a taboo. and there is no better way to make people want to do something more by inferring that it is somehow off-limits or “only for special occasions”. and i think you are wrongfully identifying some here as advocates of casual sex when really we’re only advocates of reality: humans have sex of all varieties, and have since the beginning of recorded history. we have to acknowledge that in our society, not moralize over it. that’s ignoring and oversimplifying the problem.
there’s really nothing to get all philosophical about. people like to do it, and they always have.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:11 pmIt may be easier not to need sex because then he could move on to ice cream sundays and never ache for what he can’t have by himself .
August 28th, 2006 at 8:11 pmSo if you assault some one and hurt them they no longer need to feel pain ?That seems a little easy .
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 8:10 pm
Need? Dude, you are so deep in theory that you’re missing the reality train heading right for you…
Life is only complicated when we make it so. Buddhism is very much about living simply… You should know that.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:13 pmRex your not getting me .I think the need for sex proves my point .We are not sufficient seperately we are part of a greater whole .Try being independent from food air or water .Good luck .
August 28th, 2006 at 8:14 pmever read the upanishads ?
August 28th, 2006 at 8:15 pmIt may be easier not to need sex because then he could move on to ice cream sundays and never ache for what he can’t have by himself .
Comment by freeman — August 28, 2006 @ 8:11 pm
You definitely can have sex by yourself. And you can definitely love yourself. Just ask any 17 year old boy without a driver’s license…
August 28th, 2006 at 8:16 pmbtw un-b,
i thought it was funnier when you said freeman was definitely going to stop sex!
Comment by progressaurus rex — August 28, 2006 @ 8:11 pm
Well, if he keeps talking like this and he will stop sex – his own :)
August 28th, 2006 at 8:17 pmFreeman,
I went through a Buddhism phase after Christianity and before becoming an Atheist. Many of us do.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:19 pmIf you want to be happy practice compassion
August 28th, 2006 at 8:19 pmIf you want others to be happy practice compassion
the Dalai Lama
casual sex is not compassionate if people get hurt .Try being independent from modern birth control and being sexually active .
oh i’m getting you fine. and yes i have read the upanishads. unfortunately 17 year-olds aren’t that well-versed in eastern philosophy. in case you haven’t noticed, our society doesn’t quite adhere to those beliefs.
do your best to teach your children and hope they turn out alright. that’s really all i can say. as a society we have to recognize what the reality is here and now. and it ain’t what you’re talking about.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:21 pmwell, at the risk of revealing too much about myself, i have been independent of birth control and sexually active the last ten years. it’s easily possible.
i just choose my partners VERY carefully, and only have monogamous relationships. no unwanted pregnancies, no diseases.
incidentally, i’ve met the dalai lama (in bloomington, indiana where his brother lives — there’s a large buddhist temple there). he’s a fascinating guy. wears a wristwatch, which i found surprising. and his sister-in-law runs a tibetan restaurant in bloomington that has incredible food.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:27 pmI have no problem with sex its the total lack of committment to one another I have a problem with .Re arrange marriage if you will , but some committment to something other than # 1 .!
August 28th, 2006 at 8:28 pmOh and by the way I’m also christian ,muslim hindu and none of the above .I think for myself and find that I’m essentially religious anyway,or if you prefer …..spiritual .
I believe Reality it is exactly what were talking about ,I don’t believe I can hand any one else the answer but as a mammal I’m happiest on the floor covered in my children and being surrounded by the love of family and friends .Maybe someone else will achive peace of mind with a new truck , big screen TV or a pornographic web site but just like a one night stand with someone you aren’t going to be able to love ,those things all seem shallow to me and leave you feeling seedy when you wake up in the daylight .
August 28th, 2006 at 8:35 pmIn Lives of a Cell there is an idea that in each cell in our bodies the main powerhouse is Mitochondria which it is believed are actually separate organisms which evolved symbiotically in the environment we call our selves .We are not alone but rather all one .
August 28th, 2006 at 8:46 pmI guess this means that guys like Kristol won’t feel like they need to wear condoms anymore.
August 28th, 2006 at 10:00 pmAs opposed to guys being happy because they are scoring and not caring about the consequences.
August 28th, 2006 at 10:47 pmAll the stories in the bible are passed down from pagan religions. It’s full of stories of rape, incest, child molestation, bigamy, homosexuality, murder, robbery, theft, vengence. That’s why the repukes know it and follow it so well. Why do you think they call it the good book. I was a devout catholic assured of my place in heaven. If you believe your religion told you one lie, rest assured it has told you a thousand more. You have to ask yourself why would they lie? Research that and you’ll find a hurtful truth but the truth will give you freedom. I am a Deist. I see the evidence of a God right before my eyes. The why and the how are questions that will never be answered in this life and maybe never, Don’t fool yourself into thinking you know more than everyone else. No matter what anyone else tells you it is just a guess. Don’t take my word for it, do your own research and not in the bible, read histories of the worlds religions by an unbiased author who will give you facts. A vatican that was compliant in letting loose sick human beings to prey on innocent children w/o fear of any kind of retribution can only be described as pure evil. That started me on my path to discovering the greatest con job of all times. pope Alexander said it best “this myth of jesus has served us well”
August 28th, 2006 at 11:26 pm#256
I totally agree that many have take organized religion and turned into an institution just like liberalism has institutionalized higher education.
“…and the entrenched concept becomes an institution, no longer beholden to the idea, but only serving to perpetuate to the institution itself.”
Like Jerry Falwell and Pat Roberts have done? I totally agree. This, however is not the way it is at the grass roots level. Focusing on the “big fish” is not a very accurate way of characterizing oganized religion as a whole.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:20 am#258
“After all, it’s saying that something can’t be taken on its own merits, so you just have to believe… My view IS the merits.”
Certain views you embrace is nothing but faith. The con is where you try an convince that faith is irrational. Remember that conversation we had when you tried to prove the a fetus isn’t a human? You don’t know and I don’t either. If you have undeniable and provable facts to back up you view then you would have a case….but you don’t. I don’t either, and don’t profess to “know it all”, as you seem to do. You are nothing but a human, and your limited knowledge cannot even begin to prop your own ego up to the point of an understanding true reality. You don’t have all the answers, so please do us a favor, humble yourself, and don’t BS us into thinking that you do “know”.
“I said it was absurd, irrational and ridiculous.”
Well as long as you recognize that it’s only your opinion and nothing more. OK.
“The fact that you insult Catholicism is more indictative of your very limited experience with organized religion.”
You know there was a reason the Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic chruch, i.e. the biggest “institution” that Progressive Rex mentioned. Catholic’s “all or nothing” attitude in both teachings and church laws, is one of the reason’s for the Protestant reformation. Pointing out the faults of the Catholic church doesn’t show my limited experience with organized religion in the least. If you moved from being a Catholic to being a Protestant, you should have recognized a huge difference. If you didn’t, then once again your experience was limited.
“The fact that you defend faith.”
You defend your own faith in yourself…no difference.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:53 am#259
“rational adults”
I.e those who delude themselves into thinking that have all the answers.
“Knowledge is power.”
Yes it is as long as that knowledge is provable and undeniable…like many theories those so-called “rational adults” have so much faith in.
August 29th, 2006 at 12:00 pm#270
“There is no love. Just raw animal instinct.”
Apparently you aren’t married. Right?
August 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pm#272
“And my brain says that there is no god.”
But you brain is limited.
August 29th, 2006 at 12:04 pmTracy,
I’ve learned that when you don’t have a rational response (99% of the time), you twist what we say into nothing we said by removing it from context and assume it as a statement of some absolute. Debating you is like setting myself on fire. I’m too intellegent to do either.
Have a nice cowardly life hiding under your bed.
August 29th, 2006 at 4:00 pm#295
I haven’t twisted ANYTHING you have said. The questions I asked are direct and are basically yes or no questions. The fact that you dance around questions has nothing to do with you attempting to con everyone by saying that I take what you say out of context.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:55 pm#295
“Debating you is like setting myself on fire. I’m too intellegent to do either.”
You can’t be all that intelligent considering you do it all the time.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:58 pmThe pills are not what this country needs?
August 31st, 2006 at 2:54 pmwhatever… what this country doesnt need is people that arent ready for a baby. And if you ask me 35 dollars is alot less than how much it would cost to have a baby. Plus you can get a morning after pill at Planned parenthood for as little as a dollar.. you dont even have to pay for it if you dont want too.
[...] Some have suggested, that the availability of Plan B will affect the sexual activity, and that such a development is not a positive one amongst minors. Some (in this case Bill Kristol) have even claimed to have heard rumors about frat-boys cheering, because now they can have a ‘wild night’, and the burden are completely off their shoulders. This is a quote from an interview: KRISTOL: I don’t know, I came into Fox this morning and one of our younger colleagues who works here, a guy just out of college a couple of years, said all his friends in who are still college are very happy about this — all his guy friends, his male friends who are still in college are happy about this. They have a wild night. Precautions aren’t taken. The burden is now totally off them. They tell their girlfriend to go out and get this drug and no problems at all. And I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the the country. [...]
September 30th, 2006 at 10:25 pm[...] Much of the time, it seems perfectly obvious that neo-cons are willfully lying to further their agendas. See here, in this clip of Bill Kristol, the smug, pinched smile that is spread across those liver lips is proof enough. The man is saying that the availability of Plan B, emergency contraception, over the counter is a terrible thing because college bro-dogs can get drunk, stick it in their girlfriends raw, and then demand that ‘their’ ladies go fetch themselves some Plan B, so they can continue on living their lives untethered by consequence. And he doesn’t think that’s a very good thing for the country. [...]
November 11th, 2006 at 12:06 pm