Hybrids bound for Formula 1.
By on Aug 30th, 2006 at 10:55 am
Hybrids bound for Formula 1.
Car makers have signed a deal to create a 250 horse-power hybrid Formula 1 car for 2007. Gizmodo writes, “The fact that hybrid engine technology is even being considered by world-class Formula One designers serves as an ad hoc endorsement for the idea.”
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I would like one in red please……..Blessings
August 30th, 2006 at 11:01 amOnly comes in Yellow, sorry.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:16 amThis year Audi won the Sebring and LeMans endurance races using deisel powered cars. The future of auto racing will be alternative technologies made to perform to the extreme. When cars like this dominate the normally aspirated engines it’s just a matter of time until they are offered to the public in the cars we drive.
Sorry Sharon, only Ferraris come in red.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:18 amWho Killed the Electric Car?Corporate and governmental bad guys are implicated in this documentary about the death of GM’s beloved EV1 plug-in
Chris Paine’s documentary film Who Killed the Electric Car?argues convincingly that there was indeed a market for the cars—and a devoted one, at that—but that GM squashed the EV1 because, quite simply, it threatened the livelihood of the entire automotive industry. The car used no gasoline, no oil and no mufflers, and it required only sporadic brake maintenance. Each of these components represents billions of dollars in profits for the industry. GM, the oil companies and various government agencies argued that the car wasn’t practical, didn’t have enough range for consumers and was less promising than the apparently imminent hydrogen technology. The reality was exactly the opposite, Paine’s film suggests—the viability of hydrogen as an automotive fuel source alone is in fact almost comically optimistic.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:18 amDo they brake enough to be able to regenerate enough energy to make up for battery/motor weight? Or are F1 cars weight-limited anyway so that weight is not an issue?
Cheers,
August 30th, 2006 at 11:34 amThis is NOT a hybrid car for Formula 1. Formula 1 is the preeminent race series in the world with teams like Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault. THIS car is being created for a low level racing series. Basically, a racing series will be created where only this car is raced, and NOT in Formula 1.
To analogize how misleading and inaccurate the article title and description are, it would be akin to my saying “I’m bound for the major leagues” when I’m a 16 yeard old kid who just made his high school baseball team.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:34 amO.K. I will pass then….I look good in red, not so in yellow. Not real good for the car pool croud either..Blessings
August 30th, 2006 at 11:38 amHybrids bound for Formula 1.
“bound for”… how is that misleading? read the story!
Car makers have signed a deal to create a 250 horse-power hybrid Formula 1 car for 2007
lots of kids think they are bound for the major leagues –
August 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amgotta start somewhere!
I agree with TI. The article should be titled something like “Formula 1 Designers Creating Hybrid Race Car” — this has nothing to do with Formula 1 racing specifically other than the engineers working on the project (which a modified title would indicate). It’s fairly misleading.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:44 amI would suspect this won’t mean anything to average joe american until NASCAR builds a hybrid stock car.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:45 amdlet – Great idea! Let’s get the NASCAR Prius team ready. ;-) Man now THAT would be a sight!
August 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amBut it’s not a Formula 1 car. Formula 1 cars are built according to a — wait for it — formula! That formula does not include hybrid electric propulsion.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amParrotlover 77,
August 30th, 2006 at 11:52 amI would like to see one but I think a Prius would get rubbed into a wall and pelted with Budweiser cans from the stands. I would hope Ford, Chevy or Dodge would do it but I won’t hold my breath.
Also, a car is not “a Formula 1 car” unless it is raced in FORMULA 1. Formula 1 is a racing series, not a type of car.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amdlet – I agree – I was being facetious. :-)
August 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amEven though this isn’t an F1 car, their governing body IS encouraging F1 teams to come up with “energy storage and retrieval systems” aka regenerative braking, in the near future. This is one part of hybrid drivetrains as we know them. So that’s good news. All those minds and dollars competing for better solutions will be a huge benefit to passenger cars.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:12 pm#15,
August 30th, 2006 at 12:16 pmI know. Just wanted to get a Budweiser joke in.
Race cars have always been the benchmarks for street cars.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:21 pm#13 But it’s not a Formula 1 car. Formula 1 cars are built according to a — wait for it — formula! That formula does not include hybrid electric propulsion.
Comment by jwb — August 30, 2006 @ 11:48 am
The rules (formulae) for Formula 1 cars and races change every year. Turbo cars were tested and dropped. Six wheeled cars (Tyrrell?) where tested along with 4 wheeled ones and let aside. Number of boxes stops where changed a couple times. Nothing forbids an hybrid car to participate in a Formula 1 class. And excerpt for the regulations of the motor:
Formula One engines may be no more than 2.4 litres in capacity. They must have 8 cylinders in a 90-degree formation, with two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder. They must be normally aspirated and weigh at least 95 kilograms. The FIA may permit teams to use a rev-limited, 3-litre V10 engine (compliant with 2005 regulations) if a competitive V8 is not available to them.
Turbochargers, superchargers and devices designed to pre-cool air before it enters the cylinders are not allowed. Nor is the injection of any substance into the cylinders other than air and fuel. Variable-geometry inlet and exhaust systems are also forbidden, as is variable valve timing. Each cylinder may have just one fuel injector and ignition must be by a single spark plug.
The materials used in the manufacture of the engine and its components are strictly controlled by the regulations. The crankcase and cylinder block must be made of cast or wrought aluminium alloys – the use of composite materials is not allowed. The crankshaft and camshafts must be made from an iron-based alloy, pistons from an aluminium alloy and valves from alloys based on iron, nickel, cobalt or titanium.
Formula One cars do not have their own, onboard starting systems. Separate starting devices may be used to start engines in the pits and on the grid. If the engine is fitted with an anti-stall device, this must be set to cut the engine within ten seconds in the event of an accident.
This was from the official page of the Formula 1:
http://www.formula1.com/
Notice the express prohibition of turbo systems and the like. That was put in place because a turbo gives too much power to the engine, and the first formula 1 cars with turbo where really dangerous.
But notice that the actual formula doesn’t forbid an hybrid engine. Anyhow, the formula can change if a viable hybrid engine is designed.
Notice also who’s first in the classification ;)
August 30th, 2006 at 12:30 pmAnd, F1 cars output three, four, or more times as much horsepower as the hybrid. Even old Chevy’s are higher HP.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:31 pm#20 And, F1 cars output three, four, or more times as much horsepower as the hybrid. Even old Chevy’s are higher HP.
Comment by BigHeadlineNewGenerator
Note that Formula 1 cars have been regulated to cut down a lot power, due to the danger to the pilots and public of higher than 900hp powers in a ground-based vehicle. Turbo systems have been cut down. Variable-geometry inlet and exhaust systems are also forbidden, as is variable valve timing. Each cylinder may have just one fuel injector and ignition must be by a single spark plug.
Simply re-including all these in the desing will increase the power in subsequent models, and, for sure, they’re begginning the design with modest specs, to develop more elaborate designs in the future.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:54 pmAll electrics would be better. In japan there’s the Eliica – 230mph Concept EV , and there’s also the tesla roadster. Both of these cars go 0-60 in 4 seconds, but the Eliica has a higher top speed(240mph). The problem is the cost of the battery technology.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:00 pmSpaniard – I disagree. It specifically says it must be a V8. A hybrid would have an electric engine and a gasoline engine. Electric engines do not have valves, therefore no V8. How would that fit in the spec? Unless the electric engine comonent is just considered an “add-on” device, like a turbo, that must be explicitly forbidden? All pracitcal considerations aside on implementing it, I’m not sure I buy into the specs allowing hybrids right now, should somebody want to.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:02 pmHow responsible is it to support any kind of auto racing sport based upon fossil fuels in this day of dwindling resources? Like boxing, it’s a sport we could well do without.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:02 pm[...] Photos at the link. Clarification: this is not a Formula One car—but it is a racer. See comments here. [...]
August 30th, 2006 at 1:06 pm[...] Photos at the link. Clarification: this is not a Formula One car—but it is a racer. See comments here. [...]
August 30th, 2006 at 1:09 pmIndy cars or whatever they call that kind of racing circuit run on ethanol.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:10 pmParrotlover, the prohibited add-ons are listed and defined exactly and none is against an aditional electric engine who helps the V8 fuel engine to obtain the needed horsepower. Manipulation of the air inlet and outlet, additives to the fuel mix, multiple spark systems, are mentioned, but not any hybrid technology.
Anyhow, I’m saying this and that, in the other hand, the envelope of the rules of F-1 can be pushed to let in hybrid engines, without decreasing hp. Nothing forbids the F-1 comitee to decide that the peak 900hp can be obtained with either a turboless atmosferic engine, or a turbo hybrid engine.
So, hybrid engines can be part of the Formula 1 in a not so distant future.
How responsible is it to support any kind of auto racing sport based upon fossil fuels in this day of dwindling resources? Like boxing, it’s a sport we could well do without.
Comment by Louis — August 30, 2006 @ 1:02 pm
Well, hybrid engine are a first step to less fuel consumption by car (and other vehicles) engines.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:38 pm#23,
August 30th, 2006 at 1:50 pmI agree with you that the way it is written now it seems to me that there is no allowance for a hybrid. But what the rules show is that they are updated and revised periodically when new technologies and new ideas arise. So its not a dead end….maybe a yield sign for now.
Check out the electric Tesla sportscar from http://www.teslamotors.com. 0 to 60 mph in 4 seconds, max speed 130 mph. This is not your father’s electric car.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:47 pmThe title is so misleading it ought to be changed by ThinkProgress.
That racecar looks like a go-cart compared to Formula One, which is the greatest race on earth, bar none.
“How responsible is it to support any kind of auto racing sport based upon fossil fuels in this day of dwindling resources? Like boxing, it’s a sport we could well do without.”–Louis
Boxing is an art as well as a sport. The culture of boxing enthusiasts is GIGANTIC, worldwide. You might as well suggest that we ban cricket. Boxing, and related fighting arts, are in NO danger of being phased out.
And neither is Formula One. An enormous number of safety and reliability features in YOUR automobile came from Formula One research and development. As a sport, Formula One is said to cost $1 M a mile. The fuel is a tiny proportion of that.
There will never be an electric or hybrid Formula One car. This is the PINNACLE of ICE.
The Grand Prix of Formula One is one of the most popular forms of racing sport entertainment worldwide. It is in no danger of being eliminated by Luddite fears of oil shortage.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:53 pm“There will never be an electric or hybrid Formula One car.”
I doubt that………..maybe not in the next 20 years, but I bet you electric cars are the future, especially when battery technology is getting better and better. Have you even looked into it………………….. I doubt it. Electric cars put out more torque, horsepower, and less mantinence is also needed. You’re just a pessimist.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:13 pmThe Think Progress title is misleading. The article states “Now comes the breaking news from Italy that N.Technology S.p.a. and Tatuus s.r.l. have signed a deal to produce a new single-seater Formula car.” There are several classes in “formula” racing. Formula 1 is the top of the class. Formula 3000 is an example of a lower class which many F1 drivers come from. This car is intented for one of those lower classes.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:41 pm““There will never be an electric or hybrid Formula One car.â€
I doubt that………..maybe not in the next 20 years, but I bet you electric cars are the future, especially when battery technology is getting better and better. Have you even looked into it………………….. I doubt it. — God is a Nihilist
When I get into my Prius in a few minutes, I’ll laugh about your comment, OK?
Formula One is the pinnacle of ICE. As ineffiicient as the ICE is, a Formula One ICE is extremely efficient, packing more power per square centimeter than will EVER be found in an electric or hybrid car. Those batteries in my Prius weigh more than the entire F1 carbon-fiber chassis, which can be picked up without a jack when needed. There is NO WAY in known physics to make as light a powerplant out of alternative technologies. The F1 has close to ZERO excess weight. They don’t even have starter motors, they are so light.
They are inefficient, because the ICE is (it converts fuel into waste heat). That doesn’t mean that they are capable of being made more efficient, because other than the ICE heat loss, they are superlight missiles with otherwise the most advanced components in car or racecar history.
An electric F1! That’s hilarious. And unscientific.
August 30th, 2006 at 7:09 pm“Formula 3000 is an example of a lower class which many F1 drivers come from. This car is intented for one of those lower classes.”
All the pedantic comments like this are missing the forest for the trees. The point is that they are designing a high-performance hybrid racecar. Whether it’s now meant for Formula-1 is frankly beside the point.
If it doesn’t race in Formula-1, it’s still a high-performance hybrid race car, which is significant because hybrids are looked down on by muscle car gearhead types, such as the guys who run American automakers.
But it’s entirely possible that they could surprise themselves with the performance they get, with the result that the car (or a descendant) will race in Formula-1 as soon as they can tweak the regulations to allow it.
That all said, I’m not sure I like the idea. It’s already known that you can use a hybrid system to give a car more power with the same mileage rather than getting the same power and more mileage.
It would not be a good thing if car makers start using (abusing?) hybrid technology to satisfy the fans of useless performance, rather than using it to cut energy usage. This would just muddle up the whole hybrid thing even more, and you’d get performance car buyers trying to take advantage of gas-efficiency tax breaks, etc.
August 30th, 2006 at 7:24 pmDude……………All you said is a bunch riff raff, which was totally irrelevant to what I was saying, and it’s good for you that you jack off to F1 racing….Alot of people said the earth was flat too. A 3 sec electric car, satisfied, god!!! I know it’s not close, to an F1 yet. But have you ever thought that people could produce lighter batteries……….No, wow, but that’s right,OOOOO, you drive a prius, you know every thing about electric cars……
August 30th, 2006 at 8:18 pmWill there ever be racecars with hybrid tech? Why not. But Formula One will not be the ones. That’s because Formula One is the optimal pinnacle of ICE technology, and as such is already maxed out in efficiency (the ICE inefficiency aside).
Electricity CANNOT deliver what racing fuel delivers. Gram for gram, racing fuel produces INCREDIBLE horsepower. FUEL EFFICIENCY is not a crucial factor in Formula One. Fuel efficient technologies are not sought by Formula One, because that’s not what F1 is about.
What I said was not ‘riff raff,’ it was a clarification of why your comment was ignorant if you meant to say that F1 will eventually have electric motors. The earth not being flat has nothing to do with a FULLY-DEVELOPED TECHNOLOGY like F1 not being where you should expect to see electric motors or fancy hybrids. They can’t afford the weight of the batteries, can’t afford the unsprung weight of energy-conserving hubs like on my Prius, and can’t afford the LOSS OF POWER that would come from not blowing up racing fuel in an ICE.
Those are scientific and technical FACTS. It is you who are suggesting that the earth is flat.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:50 am#37 Will there ever be racecars with hybrid tech? Why not. But Formula One will not be the ones. That’s because Formula One is the optimal pinnacle of ICE technology, and as such is already maxed out in efficiency (the ICE inefficiency aside).
The fact is that the maximum hp of a F-1 car IS trimmed actually. That’s the reason to forbid to manipulate the intake and outtake of air (turbo systems), the multiple sparks (better combustion), etc. Some techniques are forbidden, another ones not.
But rules of the F-1 are changed continuously. If an enough efficient hybrid engine is designed, it can climb from lesser formulas to the F-1 set of rules.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:36 am