VIDEO: Rumsfeld Compares Iraq War Critics To Hitler Appeasers
By on Aug 30th, 2006 at 9:40 am
VIDEO: Rumsfeld Compares Iraq War Critics To Hitler Appeasers
In a speech to the American Legion yesterday, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld continued his blistering attack on critics of the administration’s Iraq war policy.
Rumsfeld compared critics of his policies to people “in the decades before World War II” who believed Hitler “could be appeased” and “argued that the fascist threat was exaggerated — or that it was someone else’s problem.” People critical of his current efforts, according to Rumsfeld, “have still not learned history’s lessons.”
Rumsfeld added, “any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.” Watch it:
[flv http://video.thinkprogress.org/2006/08/rumsfeld.320.240.flv]
Read the full text of Rumsfeld’s remarks here.
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Enough already!
August 30th, 2006 at 9:42 am“any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.â€
How true! Except…addressed to the wrong people. Rumsfeld and the rest of BushCo and supporters each need a full-length mirror and instructions on how to use it.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:43 amFrom the link:
Public contact:
http://www.dod.mil/faq/comment.html
or +1 (703) 428-0711 +1
Let him know how you really feel.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:45 amRumsfeld added, “any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.â€
Rummy’s scary brain says: “…any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of the neo-conservative movement to persevere.â€
August 30th, 2006 at 9:45 amFreedom Isn’t FreeFREEDOM COALITIONusafreedomcorpsOperation Iraqi FreedomNew Freedom Commission on Mental HealthFreedom AgendaThey hate our freedomsfreedom is on the marchExpand freedom in all the worldforce of human freedomexpansion of freedomwhen freedom came under attackFreedom Will Find a WayGod has implanted the desire for freedomcrusade for freedom across the globeGeorge W. Bush Freedom Heroes CardsOperation FreedomFreedomFriesFreedom is God’s giftFreedom at War With Fearfreedom doctrineBush’s Freedom Fuel InitiativeBush’s Freedom to Manage plan there ought to be limits to freedomMedal of FreedomIt’s about freedom. The New Freedom InitiativeVets for FreedomDemand freedomFreedom was attacked and freedom will be defended. Champions of FreedomFire of Freedom
When is the last time a Bush official talked about how to protect yourself against terror and didn’t talk about “Freedom Sloganeering”?
August 30th, 2006 at 9:46 am“any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.â€
COUNTRY = PARTY
August 30th, 2006 at 9:50 amPARTY = REPUBLICANS
COUNTRY = REPUBLICANS
OBEY
Wasn’t he the guy who didn’t think it was worth it to bombing Afghanistan after 9/11?
August 30th, 2006 at 9:51 am“No good targets”
we’d be just “pounding rumble”
It is ludicrous for Rummy or any of his neocon accomplices to accuse anyone of not learning the lessons of history. Had they paid any attemtion to history they would have avoided a series of blunders that have led to utter disaster.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:52 amI think Rumsfeld should resign. This guy is dangerous to our America. I am disgusted this guy is calling me a Hilter Appeaser because I feel we should not be in this illegal war in Iraq.
We need to vote Dem in November to get rid of these Republican in both houses.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:53 amWe need to impeach both Bush, cheney and his admin then we can bring our troops home.
moron alert???…
August 30th, 2006 at 9:53 amHi Mr. Mirror, I’d like you to meet ANOTHER member of bushco. You have alot in common.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:54 amRumsfeld reveals that the majority of Americans, those who oppose the war, are in fact all individual incarnations of the Anti-Christ. He is the Messiah sent by God and can do no wrong. If he adds two plus two and gets three then the mathematicians must hate God and be trying to establish a Nazi Reich.
As always, the scary thing is that the Bush believers will not see this a satire.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:55 am“Any moral or intellectual confusion that you did not know that you did not know and directed toward whomever you may or may not know regarding what is or ought to be known to be right as opposed to being opposed to a definition of right which makes it wrong is dependent upon whomever uses morally or intellectually confused tactics to weaken the ability to know what you know about morality or intellect without reference to that person and his definition of right and wrong in order to preserve the freedom to maintain that person’s standing as the arbitrator of morality and intellect despite what you may think you know.” Donald Rumsfeld’s brain
Translation: “60% of you Americans suck”
August 30th, 2006 at 9:58 amRumsfeld wouldn’t know a facsist if he looked at one in the mirror.
Someone from the liberal media should look the word up and tell the sheeples what a fascist really is. I dan’t believe they’re missing the real story here.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:00 amRumsfeld needs to be carted away in a strait jacket before he causes any more reckless destruction. The guy is clearly psychotic.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:06 amRummy: If you don’t thing the way that the ones in charge do then you are a fascist.
Try and wrap your brain around that one. It hurts…be careful.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:07 amThe sorry bastard was appointed by Hitler Jr.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:10 amThe Hitler appeasers were the folks who elected the Bush Administration. No one believes thier bullshit any more. Around the office the conservative folks are just as pissed as I am. Look at the gas prices… We need to get out of Iraq because we don’t belong there in the first place. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amThis is a not very subtle way of telling the citizenry to not think, to not dare question what the government is doing. This is reminiscent of the bumper sticker I saw after I returned from Vietnam: “America- Love It or Leave It.” One of these patriotic members of the American Legion should have asked Rumsfeld in what part of the U.S. Constitution does it prohibit a member of the United States to question the government during a time of war. If the people of this country do not protest over what Rumsfeld and others in this administration are saying and how they are trying to muzzle free speech in this country, then surely the United States will only be a democracy in name only.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amThis kind of stuff pisses me off.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:18 amUmm, Mr Rummy Dummy Prescott Bush, and the Investement Bankers, such as yorself, were appeasers and supporters of the Third Reich
The Liberals, Jews and anti-war folks were worked to death in slave camps, I guess that makes them involuntary Hitler supporters.
By NOT supporting this idiotic Bush supply-side resource war the anti-war folks are exactly the opposote of what you say and such is exactly why you are attacking nearly 70% of America with your investment banker hidden agenda.
Tell you what Mr Rummy, you tell us exactly what you have planned, the course only you know, and what’s in this war for me, and maybe then people will join your bush/cheney/reich wing plunder pillage and profit reich wing pirate ship.
The ‘poor’ folks you want to go fight this corporate war, Rummy, have no reason to join the bush melee as they can never profit from it. Now round up all your old cronies and get your ass to the front line bub, you helped start this war, I suggest you get all of your friends who are profiting from it and dress them out in battle gear and send your ‘paid’ employees into the heat of the battle.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:20 amRumsfeld’s comments are dead on, and were first uttered by one of Winston Churchill’s surviving family members on Rush Limbaugh’s program. Humans, being what they are, will allows follow the same behavioural patterns when presented with similar stimuli. Now that the generation of those who fought or lived through WWII no longer hold any political or financial power, the next generations will make the same mistakes. Fortunately, dubya is the son of a still living WWII veteran, and is taking the appropriate actions against Saddam Hussein and Al Quieda.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:22 amya know, don… you’re so full of shit, it’s hard to know where to begin… just take a deep breath, take your meds, and let the men in white coats gently lead you back to your office where your secretary will bring you a nice cup of hot tea with honey…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
August 30th, 2006 at 10:29 amp.s. you too, jason…
August 30th, 2006 at 10:29 amRumsfeld’s comments are dead on, and were first uttered by one of Winston Churchill’s surviving family members on Rush Limbaugh’s program. Humans, being what they are, will allows follow the same behavioural patterns when presented with similar stimuli. Now that the generation of those who fought or lived through WWII no longer hold any political or financial power, the next generations will make the same mistakes. Fortunately, dubya is the son of a still living WWII veteran, and is taking the appropriate actions against Saddam Hussein and Al Quieda.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — August 30, 2006 @ 10:22 am
You’re joking, right? Please tell us you’re joking.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:30 amJason, whatever they’re paying you to say this crap, it isn’t enough!
August 30th, 2006 at 10:31 am“If Iraqis are still bashing Ghengis Khan 700 years after the fact, how long do you think they will treat Americans with contempt and scorn for what Bush et al have done to Iraq, a holiest of holies?”
Comment by God of the God of Gods
Why should an American care what any poor loser thinks? Contempt and scorn? Oh, ouch, that hurts.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:32 amI love the way they title these inane rants of Rummies.
Rummy BLASTS war critics.
Since when has Rumsfeld ‘blasted’ anybody? He talks about unknown courses for chrissakes. He spends what other ‘blast’ energy he has trying to avoid answering questions.
Really, enough with the gripping, spin-o-riffic headlines already CNN. Leave that kinda stuff for Faux news will ya?
Rumsfeld Terrorizes War critics!
August 30th, 2006 at 10:32 amRumsfeld Shocks and Awes War critics!
Rumsfeld Singlehandedly Destroys war critics!
Rumsfeld Nukes War critics!
Rumsfeld Shotguns the Faces of War critics!
People critical of his current efforts, according to Rumsfeld, “have still not learned history’s lessons.â€
Someone send Rummy a copy of the DVD “Fog of War”. Rummy, we’ve only learned from history too well.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:33 amLetter to the DOD
August 30th, 2006 at 10:33 am
Rumsfeld’s comments are dead on, and were first uttered by one of Winston Churchill’s..–Jason Hindler
==
Ya know Jason I used to just take you for a troll, an operative of the GOP, or just a fanatical fundamentalist. Now I truly wonder what planet and time/space coordinate you exist in..but then again I also see no matter what one said to you, you would still be wandering the hallways, alone, of the Whitehouse talking to the old portraits lining the hallways..
August 30th, 2006 at 10:36 amThese people like Rummy and others in the Administration that keep speaking this “current fascism”, obviously do not know what the definition is. Of course, if they did look it up, it would say “See current Bush Administration”…
August 30th, 2006 at 10:36 amThe Bushco. reichwing and the imaginary Islamofascism: just a fascist family squable
August 30th, 2006 at 10:37 amWhy should an American care what any poor loser thinks? Contempt and scorn? Oh, ouch, that hurts.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Hey look the Anti-Christ.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:37 amDonald Rumsfeld has now dug his hole so deep that his only defense is to declare it a ‘tunnel to freedom’ and display the bones of our fathers as he exhumes them along the way.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:37 am“Why should an American care what any poor loser thinks?”
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — August 30, 2006 @ 10:32 am
Because he’s the secretary of defense IRI, that’s why.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:38 am#24 Jason:
August 30th, 2006 at 10:40 amBut W didn’t even listen to that WWII vet, his OWN FATHER, who thought it was a huge mistake to go into Iraq. He knew the problems and that is why he didn’t continue the Gulf War.
Why should an American care what any poor loser thinks? Contempt and scorn? Oh, ouch, that hurts.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
A very shortsighted view. I would think those that flew planes into the World Trade Center Buildings and the Pentagon, those that are killing our troop in Iraq and Afghanistan are filled with a little scorn and contempt. Don’t ya think?
And that ‘ouch that hurts’ comment would be really nice to send to the families of the dead servicemen and women.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:41 amHumans, being what they are, will allows follow the same behavioural patterns when presented with similar stimuli. Now that the generation of those who fought or lived through WWII no longer hold any political or financial power, the next generations will make the same mistakes
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — August 30, 2006 @ 10:22 am
Wh wh wh wh wh wh WHAT IN THE WILD, WILD WEST ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
And please, fess up to why you haven’t enlisted yet:
Don’t worry, no sane person would ever bother asking a liberal to defend their country, so you can stay safe in your flip-flops and bermuda shorts.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
August 30th, 2006 at 10:42 amNo one could have known that Hitler was a genocidal maniac.
-Donald Rumsfeld’s Colon
August 30th, 2006 at 10:42 amHitler appeasers are to the north, south, east and west somewhat of Rumsfield.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:45 amAll this controversy about the war in Iraq makes me wonder what those soldiers who are risking their lives over there are thinking. Will they come home to find they are treated like the veterans of war after Viet Nam? Our Country is so divided because our political figures want it that way. Everything that happens today is blamed on the Bush administration. Everything including a headline recently that Mel Gibson’s incident is Bush’s fault. The Liberals have so brainwashed people that they will believe and do anything to hurt and demoralize our present government. Bush has not done everything right but at least he believes in what he is doing. Clinton did some pretty horrible things (other than sex in the White House) and yet people still believe he was okay because the economy was good at that time. He was not responsible for that either. He was riding on the coat tails of earlier administrations. Can you imagine what it will be like when we have another attack here like 9/11? We are a divided Country and do not stand together and our enemies know that. The Liberals are not interested in what is for our good as a people but what is politically good for them and they will go to any length to see that their agenda prospers. God help us all.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:47 amDon’t worry, no sane person would ever bother asking a liberal to defend their country, so you can stay safe in your flip-flops and bermuda shorts.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
You’re right, they would look to those pillars of distinguished military service such as W, Cheney, Rove, Rummy, et al. Get a clue.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:48 am#32 Nice letter Roger.
Remember folks, when you go to the polls this fall and you ask yourself if you’re better off than you were four years ago — please remember that four years ago was after 9/11.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amHistory will not be kind to Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush and their deluded NeoCon psychopath cronies.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:49 amI-REICH-I has the vision, and mentality of a billy goat..”Why should an American care what any poor loser thinks? Contempt and scorn? Oh, ouch, that hurts.”
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Because these ‘poor’ folks are your national defense silly rabbit. How many Business executives and other related government dweebs [Reps Senators Advisers], such as Rove, do you see digging trenches and getting shot at?
I wouldn’t go dissing those ‘poor losers’ if I were you I Reich I
So, I suggest you put up [go serve spoiled child/man] or shutup I Reich I.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:50 amOh, here we go again with the H references. If there IS any appeasement corrollaries, then it’s the Congress who failed to ask the tough questions before the beginning of this greated fiasco in the history of the US! And Herr Goerring at the podium there, is the greatest apologist for the the Bush Reich. Hurry up and bite down, already!
August 30th, 2006 at 10:52 amwell, hello, iris… it’s been a long, refreshing times since
August 30th, 2006 at 10:56 amyou’ve been here… lots of newbies for you to trash talk to…
mmmmm… i bet your mouth is watering, eh? try to be nice…
#44 Our Country is so divided because our political figures want it that way.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:56 amI’m sorry you are so confused. You are right, we are divided and as your quote above states, it is our political leaders. It’s not the liberals who are dividing. George Bush had the ENTIRE COUNTRY UNITED BEHIND HIM AFTER 9/11 and he BLEW IT. He divided us, and that is what the Republicans do. They are so afraid of losing power they divide us. They are in control of the government. Just what have they accomplished? Conservatives and Republicans complain that the government doesn’t work and then they get into power and prove it every time.
I fixed your post to match reality.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:59 amDon’t worry, no sane person would ever bother asking a liberal to defend their country, so you can stay safe in your flip-flops and bermuda shorts.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
You should stop that projecting stuff Jason, that is what makes your argument [opinion] so undefendable.
A; My Father served
B; My Brother served
C; My Uncle Served
D; Grandfather Served
E; Mom remarried, her new husband was shot down in bomber
F; Grandmotjer worked as rosie riveter building aircraft
G; Brother in law currently in Air Force.
so Jason, you see, you to me, are nothing but a chicken hawk. You are not worth speaking with as you know nothing about me or anyone here yet you THINK that you do.
I know many people that have served, and I couild, but won’t tell you some very horriffic stories.
Do not think that you, when you post here, are speaking to some inexperienced college youth, because you are not.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:00 amyes, rich… actually i’ve been wondering what has taken them so long to turn the tables around on the H references… it’s been years, and the comparisons to bushco are so obvious and relavent, i have wondered how they were going to twist it, and here they show us…
August 30th, 2006 at 11:01 amhopefully there’s enough who actually remember those days to be offended enough to rebel against such accusations and tell their families to do the same…
still too many sheeple, i fear…
Hitler: Invaded several countries successfully, until the West decided to stop him. He amassed a huge disciplined military which kept on fighting even as the cause was demonstrated to be completely lost, he had a strong air force, and generally was a bad person. Oh, and he was a Christian fascist who believed that the state and the Church should work together. Hitler believed a woman’s place was basically as a baby making machine.
Saddam: Invaded several countries unsuccessfully (Got his butt whooped) and amassed a huge undisciplined military, which fell apart about one month into hostilities, and had no air force to speak of. He is still a bad person. He was a debatably Islamic fascist (Muslims aren’t allowed to drink but there was plenty of wine in his palace) who had a secular government which included women in cabinet positions.
I frankly do not see the comparison. Hitler was a threat to the world, Saddam was a bad joke that had gone on a bit too long. Hitler was a highly effective military leader, Saddam, well, not so much.
Hitler’s economy was surprisingly strong before WWII. Saddam’s economy before the second Gulf War, well, not so much.
If the “He is a bad man” excuse was a valid motivation for war, why hasn’t Zimbabwe, which is currently doing much the same stuff right now that Saddam had done in the past, come up as a place to invade? If it is terrorism that is the central issue, what about Saudi Arabia? Or Czechoslovakia? Or is it only terrorism if it involves the US?
Frankly, to be absolutely honest there are more parrallels with Bush’s America and Hitler’s Germany, then between Nazi Germany and pre-War Iraq. Hitler launched a major campaign to demonise the left, he was vehemently anti-Gay rights (Indeed gays ended their days in much the same places as the Jews) and he termed all of those who didn’t agree with him traitors. Like most dictatorships there was a major weakening of core human rights such as privacy (Always the first right to go under a fascist government) and a casual acceptance of torture as a means of getting information.
Where Hitler had resentment against the Jews to capitalise on, Bush has tried to capitalise on resentment against Latino immigrants. The writings of Nazi propagandists and Republican pundits can be freely interchanged. Indeed so can the lack of diplomatic efforts, while nobody preaches appeasement there are options other then war and surrender, neither Bush nor Hitler have shown much interest in diplomacy however.
Even the treatment of intellectuals is the same, just like the acceptance of pseudo-science instead of honest study. Both states have demonstrated an outright disdain for long established universities. Indeed the anti-intellectualism demonstrated by Bush and his brown screens (IE: Trolls) are remarkable in their unoriginality.
Under both governments there has been massive abuses of power, and a lot of corruption. The only difference is, that under Bush’s America, at least half of the voting Americans had the sense to vote for the other guy. America needs to wake up and start moving for a change, because while the threat of terrorism is real, so is the threat of a president with too much power in his hands.
The Republicans can’t do anything about Bush, it would be political suicide for them if they impeached him (2 Presidents forced to resign over abuses of power in American history; both Republicans, you do the math) and it is all that will stop Bush now, it must be up to the Democrats and the independents to do what must be done. It is time to put the party aside and fight for the state, to unite and stop this from happening, because so long as the macho bullshit continues, America will continue to turn into 1930’s Germany.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:02 am#50 – Katy, IRI’s been too busy teaching a writing class in his home congressional district – the 22nd – to play here at TP. IRI, maybe you should try to get Sekula-Gibbs to change her name to Smith, it’s only 5 letters.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:02 am#51 You said the entire country was behind Bush after 9/11. This is not true. I did not believe we shioud of gone into this illegal war in Iraq. Congress did not declare this war. We went into Iraq for OIL, OIL, OIL.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:04 amKatha Pollitt hits the whole concept of “Islamofascism” hard in a fantastic column in this week’s Nation: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060911/pollitt
August 30th, 2006 at 11:04 amI would like to take this opportunity to compare Rummy to Himmler.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:05 amany questions about who THESE definitions apply to?
Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.
a fascist: a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:06 amClinton did some pretty horrible things
Comment by j, corsaut — August 30, 2006 @ 10:47 am
Word of advice Mr. J, Corsaut. You’ve really need to use examples to back up your statements. What horrible things? Mr. Foster’s death? Whitewater? 2 different terror attacks? Economy? Crime rate? Surplus?
And one other quick question? Who blamed Bush for Mel Gibson?
August 30th, 2006 at 11:06 amThere is more to radio then just Limbaugh
Jason is too busy creating hundreds of jobs to enlist and fight in Iraq. He’s needed so much more here, where he is saving the economy from the devastation wrought by labor unions.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:07 amThe only fascist threat that I’m aware of is what’s happening in the U.S. under the control of Bush/Cheney/Rummy.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:08 amI think I echo a lot of people here when I say it’s this administration that’s fascist. The arabs are just @#*$@$ crazy.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:09 amRumsfeld is an idiot!
“Hey, Idiot! What about the lessons not yet learned, by idiots like you in public office, from Vietnam: and, nation building?” The only difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that there is no draft. If there where idiots like you and Bush would be run out on a rail, tarred and feathered.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:10 amRumsfeld is just a senial old man. He reminds me of grandpa Simpson. Bush needs to send that doddering old fool to an elderly home. He looks like he’s in more of a position to play a game of bingo than try to wage a war.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:11 amOperation Iraqi Liberation
August 30th, 2006 at 11:14 amO I L
O I L
O I L
OIL
neopro
Cheaper, easier, and safer ways to get the black stuff. It was all about the WsMD.
Weapons of Mass Distraction.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:16 am#62
RealScientist,
that’s what you get when you graduate from an Ivy league school (Stanford), which , I guess, educates you that the warming of the earth’s temperature is due to the chemical process that increases the strength of rubber (vulcanization), cited and researched by that top rated scientist….Michael Crichton
Oh, and blame Clinton, for not enlisting
August 30th, 2006 at 11:17 am#51 You said the entire country was behind Bush after 9/11. This is not true. I did not believe we shioud of gone into this illegal war in Iraq. Congress did not declare this war. We went into Iraq for OIL, OIL, OIL.
Comment by Mary Poplins — August 30, 2006 @ 11:04 am
I agree, and that is where he blew it. I do believe the majority of American’s were behind going into Afghanistan to get Osama Bin Laden, and that was what Congress approved with the AUF. When we had they chance in Tora Bora, Bush cut and run and went into Iraq.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:19 amThese fear-mongering lunatics just won’t shut up. Is Rummy comparing the “Islamic fascists” in Iraq to Nazis? If he is, then that means the US occupation isn’t stopping them, and has been a failure. Thanks, Rummy…
http://www.polibuzz.blogspot.com
August 30th, 2006 at 11:19 amRacist George Allen finds himself in more trouble
Right now on Political Buzz
http://www.polibuzz.blogspot.com
Oops, I left out the commentary…
August 30th, 2006 at 11:19 am“Unconditional and highest freedom of will,” Himmler instructed his SS, “comes from obedience, from service to our Weltanschauung (world view), obedience which is prepared to render each and every sacrifice to pride, to external honor and to all which is dear to us personally, obedience which never falters but unconditionally follows every order which comes from the Führer or legally from superiors…”
Maybe these guys are catching on that they are being compared to fascists, and are defending themselves by accusing the acccusers of being fascists. Thats the only sense I can make out of it. This is still a Democracy right? The majority is against the war right? Then Rummy, you have to present a better case other than accusing the majority of not knowing any better.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:20 amBush has been the best thing for Al Qaida and terrorist recruitment. The terroists and Al Qaida have been the best thing for Bush. One would have had to invent the other if the other did not exist. Talk about fascism. Where is the state becoming more important than liberties? Where is there a leader of a state that is divinely selected to defeat an evil enemy? Where must internal dissent be suppressed for the good of the homeland? Hmm, pot and kettle, kettle and pot, who is blackest? Which has a state (critical for the definition of fascism) and which is an ad-hoc un-coordinated grouping of disparate elements? Which party has the most weapons? Is the US truly in a life-threatening struggle? Is terrorist activity that close to pysically taking over western states? It hard to take the claims of Islamofascism seriously when we can’t even name a leader or state to blame and we have essentially given up on finding the leader of the group that had an effective attack on the US. If we left the mideast tomorrow, the entire supposed Isamofascist structure would collapse into infighting. All we are doing is providing a unifying common enemy for these groups, and as a result, giving them more influence and strength than they ever would have had.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:20 amTerrorists are winning the media wars , Well I think The truth is The media is fed up with your lies rummy everything you say is the exact opposite and Now the media want to hear the truth from the people under occupation
August 30th, 2006 at 11:24 am‘Moral or intellectual confusion’?
Really, does that mean doubting who is in the right? If it does, it means no-one should criticise the Bush administration’s conduct of a war in Iraq that has gone horribly wrong, or a ‘war on terror’ that fights a series of phantoms.
And there was me foolishly thinking that oppositional discourse was oot some sort of idiocy, but an essential condition of a democratic society.
Even more seriously, it shows up the right wing’s binary logic again. Apparently you are either ‘with us or against us’. Any sort of doubting threatens to put you in the opposite camp, in with the ‘Islamo-wacks’, as Mighty Aphrodite would say. This sort of thinking precludes any legitimate oppositional discourse. If you try to suggest that perhaps blowing the hell out of everything isn’t the answer, you are taking the side of ‘the enemy’, regardless of the merits of your case!
And to think we went to war in Iraq in the name of freedom…
August 30th, 2006 at 11:29 amAs much as they cling to their invasion.
As much as they want it to continue . . . . well . . . . forever.
Makes a person really wonder about 9-11.
What they’ve done with it clearly shows motive.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:29 amtalk about serendipity… i just read this quote minutes ago:
“There is something very sinister to my mind in this Mesopotamian entanglement,” Winston Churchill wrote his Prime Minister, David Lloyd George, in August 1920. “Week after week and month after month for a long time we shall have a continuance of this miserable, wasteful, sporadic warfare marked from time to time certainly by minor disasters and cuttings off of troops and agents, and very possibly attended by some very grave occurence.”
that was the lead to a joe klein piece in time magazine: Even Churchill Couldn’t Figure Out Iraq… i didn’t finish the article… not a klein fan… but it sounds as if churchill’s “surviving family members” need to brush up on their family history…
August 30th, 2006 at 11:31 amMan this guy is wrong on many instances regarding this war I have to say Rumsfeld is wrong again. The threat is Islamo-fascism aka Islamic fundementalists, this is spreading throughout the world to the well educated and the ignorant.
The US policies, execution of this Iraq War, and the UN’s selective inaction and enforcement of resolutions only compound the situation and enable horrific rationalization by all extremists – republicans, democrats, and islamists.
What we need is an alien invasion to unite the world or just destroy it!
August 30th, 2006 at 11:34 am#3: My question that I posed on the DoD website:
The Secretary is out stumping telling the non-believers they are like the Hitler appeasers and the Republicans are increasingly using the term ‘fascism’ to define the enemy. So that begs the question; if this administration views the terrorists as a Hitler-like threat and they are an insidious, fascist element, why has the Secretary eschewed the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force and instead chosen to fight this titanic struggle of our generation with a minimal number of troops, and continues to do so, despite being stalemated – at best – in Iraq?
August 30th, 2006 at 11:36 amMaybe these guys are catching on that they are being compared to fascists, and are defending themselves by accusing the acccusers of being fascists.
Comment by For Truth — August 30, 2006 @ 11:20 am
This is exactly right. They have long employed a tactic of redefining terms to neuter the meaning and sow confusion.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:41 amNÄśī’ (× Ö¸×©Ö´×‚×™×) is a Hebrew term meaning, roughly, “Prince”. In classical times it was the title given to the head of the Sanhedrin, the supreme court and legislative body of ancient Israel. The position was created in about 191 BCE when the Sanhedrin lost confidence in the ability of the high priests to serve as its head.
Certain great figures from the Jewish history are referred to by this title, e.g., Judah haNasi.
In modern usage Nasi also means President. It is the title used in Modern Hebrew for any democratically elected head of state.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:46 am==
See there bush trolls | Bush is a ‘Nasi’..in Hebrew. =)
ergo:Rummy is working for the ‘NASI’ Prince George the elected.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:49 amlmao. Okay, next organized GOoP talking point??
From the mouth of a true fascist pig. You go girlie man.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:49 amGod of the God of Gods
Here I have to disagree. Blaming Israel for America’s actions is immoral. You went to war for WsMD. The elections were coming up, Bush’s economy was freefalling, and the media was looking for the next big thing. There were no good easy targets in Saudi Arabia, and the place has a history of being hard to control.
WsMD. Oil could be had in Nigeria. Israel would much rather have had America finish what it started with Osama. Defense contracts were already on the go for Afghanistan. It was Weapons of Mass Distraction that drove the war into Iraq.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:50 amSorry, read Afghanistan for Saudi Arabia.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:51 am#81 good question. One of the main reasons for the situation today. This administration looked at the worst case scenario to start the invasion of Iraq and hoped for the best case scenario when implementing the invasion. Wrong on both accounts.
To iri, jason and all the other neocons, this is what upsets me. They took their eyes off the prize and went after their own ideological goals. All the time feeding fear to the public. If we put the same effort in afghanistan as Iraq we would have truly destroyed the Taliban, had a large (and unhindered) military at the doorstep of both Iran and Pakistan and could have squeezed many nuts to get OBL and continued pressure on both Iran and Iraq. All with the support of the western world.
Didn’t happen that way. We went ater the “good targets” that Dum Rum and PNAC wanted.
It’s total bullshit for any of you to suggest that the majority of “libs” are weak on terror. Let’s go after the real targets. Let’s truly secure the ports, Let’s commit to a unified sacrifice in this country instead of going after the unknown boogey creature of Terror.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:51 am“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. “ – Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichmarshall.
The irony is strong on this one; that he is using Nazi propoganda techniques to label those who don’t salute him as Nazi appeasers.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:56 amNo, Rummy, we’ve learned our history lessons very well…well enough to see the parallels between Bush’s administration and Hitler’s.
I’m getting very sick of the neocons comparing themselves to Churchill, when Churchill was trying to warn the world of the threat posed by a fascist regime that the neocons themselves faithfully emulate.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:59 amRumsfeld’s comments are dead on, and were first uttered by one of Winston Churchill’s surviving family members on Rush Limbaugh’s program. Humans, being what they are, will allows follow the same behavioural patterns when presented with similar stimuli. Now that the generation of those who fought or lived through WWII no longer hold any political or financial power, the next generations will make the same mistakes. Fortunately, dubya is the son of a still living WWII veteran, and is taking the appropriate actions against Saddam Hussein and Al Quieda.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — August 30, 2006 @ 10:22 am
In the Spring of 2001 it was declared that Saddam was contained, the he did not have any serious capability of producing WMD’s, the santions against him were working, and he was not a threat to his neighbors.
Or so said Colin Powell and Condi Rice.
Yet 2 years later this country was preparing an invasion because:
- Saddam had WMD’s. “We know where they are” said Rumsfeld.
- The santions weren’t doing any good.
- Saddam was a “gathering” threat to his neighbors, and the world.
As well, on 9/12/01 members of the administration, including Donald Rumsfeld, couldn’t act fast enough to set their sights on Iraq. A country, according to George Bush just a week ago, had nothing to do with the attacks the day prior to 9/12/01.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pmI want Rumsfeld to tell John Murtha to his face that he (John) is no better than the Nazi sympathizers. I dare him. If he does, I hereby pledge to vote Republican across the board in November.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:06 pmMilitary families! This is not an excuse to support this evil regime. Sorry!
My husband is buried at Arlington, and he was drawn by a cortege of black horses.
The military are sworn to protect our Constitution and our country. I think you know this. You are just having trouble seeing that waiting at our gates, is Northamerican Union, the merging of Canada, USA, and Mexico. It is NAFTA incarnate, and the Globalists wil have their “New World Order” if you don’t wake up.
The European citizens were consulted about their EU (European Union). It should give you a hint, that we, Americans, in the Land of the Free, are not consulted about it.
Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld have spent millions in public relations monies, and will be “blitzing” us with it again within the next weeks. As you read the internet news, you will be getting the truth, as you can have many sources still to read and if you do so, you will find the truth. You can’t just sit and watch Fox or a couple of the others. They don’t report what Bush doesn’t want you to hear. There are two exceptions: Lou Dobbs and Keith Olbermann. Enough said.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:07 pm“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
– Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945
The terrorists are out to get you! They hate your freedom! Criticism of the government makes you an appeaser! The economy is doing great! Things are going swimmingly in Iraq and Afghanistan! The terrorists are out to get you! They hate your freedom! Criticism of the government makes you an appeaser! The economy is doing great! Things are going swimmingly in Iraq and Afghanistan! The terrorists are out to get you! They hate your freedom! Criticism of the government makes you an appeaser! The economy is doing great! Things are going swimmingly in Iraq and Afghanistan! The terrorists are out to get you! They hate your freedom! Criticism of the government makes you an appeaser! The economy is doing great! Things are going swimmingly in Iraq and Afghanistan! The terrorists are out to get you! They hate your freedom! Criticism of the government makes you an appeaser! The economy is doing great! Things are going swimmingly in Iraq and Afghanistan! The terrorists are out to get you! They hate your freedom! Criticism of the government makes you an appeaser! The economy is doing great! Things are going swimmingly in Iraq and Afghanistan!
August 30th, 2006 at 12:07 pm#24 Jason:
But W didn’t even listen to that WWII vet, his OWN FATHER, who thought it was a huge mistake to go into Iraq. He knew the problems and that is why he didn’t continue the Gulf War.
Comment by BuckarooBanzai — August 30, 2006 @ 10:40 am
Tricky Dick Cheney, as I recall, also supported and agreed with Bush Sr.’s stance on not moving on to Baghdad.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:11 pmI hereby pledge to vote Republican across the board in November.
Comment by WC — August 30, 2006 @ 12:06 pm
aw jeez, wc! remember what LIARS these people are, no qualms!
August 30th, 2006 at 12:11 pmtake it back, quick!
“Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” – President Theodore Roosevelt, 1908
Honestly, how can anyone in their right mind say BushCo have efficiently served the country and not failed in their duty to stand by the country? Given the majority don’t actually believe Bush anymore, there is record debt/deficit, scandal after scandal, obvious failure in Iraq and Afghanistan. No capture of Bin Laden. Increased hatred and danger towards America. The list goes on. Real patriots stand up against these bungling buffoons!
August 30th, 2006 at 12:11 pmYeah, you go Herr Rumsfeld! Not even Hitler would try to appease an evil clone of himself.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:12 pmHitler and the Nazis were just the Neo-cons of their time.
Comparing Nazi Germany to the “terrorists” is like comparing the Yankee’s to the Japanese Little League team. This analogy is a complete falsehood created by men who are desperate to convince Americans that they themselves haven’t hurt America with their policies. The truth is that Rummy has been a complete disaster for the US, our Military and the War on Terror. PS: WHERE IS BIN LADEN??? Welcome to the scrap heap of History Don…right where you belong.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:12 pmThe fools of history are those who gain national leadership positions and then go about pursuing their own agendas. These people invariably surround themselves with dedicated “yes men” who utter pronouncements and rule in ways only the “chosen one” wishes. George Bush has chosen well. Certainly there were “appeasers at all costs” before and probably during WWII. They were wrong and were proven so by a resolute and competent administration. Historic parallel demands comparison between Hitler’s constructed incidents on his borders and the Bush administration’s surging into Iraq on the basis of what only an international policy twit would call a WMD threat. That threat was widely discounted by true patriots before enrty into Iraq. As despicable as Iraq’s regime was, how about if we had enlisted Iraq’s cooperation in this conflict (against Iran, for instance, if indeed Iran was the force behind 9/11) ? Instead, we have earned the lusty and VERY long-lived hatred from a very large part of Muslim society as well as other cultures around the world. And for George Bush?? After thousands of American lives lost in what now appears to be an easily predictable fiasco, the poor man has not gained real control over one single barrel of Iraqi oil. Perhaps we ought to have a national DAY OF PRAYER. FOR US, afterall, WE THE PEOPLE put this JERK in office.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pmClinton did some pretty horrible things (other than sex in the White House)…
Comment by j, corsaut — August 30, 2006 @ 10:47 am
Name 10, with an in-depth explanation as to why they were horrible. And your opinion doesn’t count. Explain in depth how it negatively affected a majority of the American people. Hell, explain how the 10 horrible things affected you personally or financially. Provide sources where possible.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmThe Liberals are not interested in what is for our good as a people but what is politically good for them and they will go to any length to see that their agenda prospers.
Comment by j, corsaut — August 30, 2006 @ 10:47 am
You mean like the liberals in Congress and the White House who recently pushed homosexual marriage and flag burning to the top of their agenda and announced that they were the 2 most important issues facing this country?
Sounds a hell of a lot like, as you say it, “…what is politically good for them and they will go to any length to see that their agenda prospers.”
G-damn, you are ignorant.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:24 pmI want Rumsfeld to tell John Murtha to his face that he (John) is no better than the Nazi sympathizers. I dare him. If he does, I hereby pledge to vote Republican across the board in November.
Comment by WC — August 30, 2006 @ 12:06 pm
I’d pay a pretty penny to see that shit… hell I’d even vote an all Republican ticket too.
It’s not like my vote’s not going to be flipped anyway?
August 30th, 2006 at 12:25 pm#102 – “if indeed Iran was the force behind 9/11″
The “official” line, for what little it’s worth considering the bullcrap that’s come out of this administration, is that most of the alleged hijackers were allegedly from Saudi Arabia.
Well guess who protects, supplies and arms the Saudi Royal Family, that bastion of freedom and democracy? (not!). That’s right, your good friends at the government! They haven’t even said one bad word to the Saudis. Oils well that ends well I suppose.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:29 pmIf I was a true “Hitler Appeaser” I’d say: “You’re doing a heck of a job Rummy!”
Here’s what this government and its mainstream media are doing. They hide the horrors of war by broadcasting selective images to appease their warmongering ideology and their Republican base. Pure Fascism. Ironic projection on the part of Rumsfeld.
http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/iraq/iraqwar6.html
August 30th, 2006 at 12:30 pmName 10…
Comment by WC — August 30, 2006 @ 12:19 pm
i’ll even offer up a head start:
August 30th, 2006 at 12:40 pmTelecommunications Act of 1996 and NAFTA…
there’s 2 down… i’d truly like to hear the rest…
“in the decades…”
Which decade are you living in, Rumsfeld ?
August 30th, 2006 at 12:46 pmOn a side note – speaking of the ‘revisionist history’ Rumsfeld mentioned – I watched that 9/11 profile on the History channel this week and was stunned to see that it omitted, as historical fact, the largest protest in human history: The global protest of America’s invasion of Iraq. Skipped it. Completely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15%2C_2003_anti-war_protest
August 30th, 2006 at 12:49 pmHorrible Things Clinton May Have Had A Hand In:
10: Shared A Cigar with Gadafi.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:57 pm9: Accepted Gadafi’s compliments on the unique taste.
8: Refused to call GW a poo-poo head on TV.
7: Didn’t kill Iraqis.
6: Made Hillary Clinton out to be the brains behind the presidency.
5: Even after she aligned herself with the same brand of nutters as published Dark Dungeons.
4: Brought about major reforms in government tax and spending, so that America actually paid some of its debts.
3: Negotiated peace between Egypt and Israel, without killing Iraqis.
2: Shared a Cigar with Bush (After Lewinski.)
1: Accepted Bush’s compliments on the unique taste.
Since Bush is also an evil dictator hated by most Americans (keep in mind that both Bush and Saddam had the job title “president”), maybe if another country came and liberated us we would throw rose peddals at them as the Iraqis were supposed to do to us? not liekely. Hey neocon whackos, if you think that iraqis are happy because we “liberated” them from their ex-president, try walking in their shoes and imagining how you would feel if Canada (or whoever) invaded America and “liberated” us from Bush.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:57 pmGod of the God of Gods
Distraction not Destruction. The two words have completely different meanings, and you will find that I am indeed right.
August 30th, 2006 at 12:58 pmBruce:
And then there was that whole Kosovo/Bosnia thingie; y’know the one that didn’t get over two thousand soldiers killed? What was he thinking?
August 30th, 2006 at 1:01 pmBarfly
Seriously, I mean, Clinton really didn’t seem to be into this whole “Lets kill people, waste lots of money, deprive the people of their oldest basic civil rights, merge the Government with the nuttiest local Church we can find, refuse to talk to anybody with a different point of view and call all of it fighting terrorism” thing the rightwing have going. The man must have been a complete monster!
August 30th, 2006 at 1:08 pmReply to 27, Jason Hendler. Jason as usual you a dear wrong. No amount of party loyality can take away the fact that this is pure politics. It’s nothing more than Karl Rove’s attack talking points and you know it. The war in Iraq is a miserable falure and you, and Rumsfelf know it, os the stategy is to find a way to turn attention away from it. It’s easy to attack the people who think the war is basically lost and we are just losing soldiers for nothing. There is a way to win the war in Iraq, but the administration is too busy fighting the critics to come up with a winning strategy. Their “war on terror” is actually being wages on the hearts and minds of the American people. The Republicans will stop at nothing to hold on to power, including attacking the patriotism of fellow Americans who happen to disagree with them.
When did this become a one party, one thought process, facist state lead by a dictator? I’ll tell you, in 2000, and again in 2004 when stupid voters in Red States reelected this bumb and his henchmen. If anyone should be called a facist it’s not Democrats. As I recall history, states like Germany, Italy, Russia, and Japan were ruled by one dictators who killed anyone who questioned their decisions. Sound familiar without the killing part? Fools like you go marching right alone with the party, just like the Germans did during the 1930s. The end result was a World War in which millions of civilians died and 6 million Jew were killed. So go right ahead Jason and march the goosestep march of the Republican party.
But remember this idiot; “Those who forget the mistakes of the past, are doomed to repeat them”. Yes, I’m a Democrat, but I don’t swear to everything Ted Kennedy, or Howard Dean says. I have a mind of my own and for good reason. That’s why the voters of Connitcutt were able to defeat Joe Liebermann so easily. We don’t think like a bunch of morons who have talked themselve into lynching someone based on rumor and party loyalty.
And before you go there, I don’t think we should pull out of Iraq and leave it to terrorist. I think Rumsfeld should go and be replaced by General Norman Swartzkaft. Then the bullsh-t will stop at the Pentagon and we will win the war in Irag the war on terrorism. So pull your head out of your butt and wipe away all of the sh-t that’s clogging you ears and maybel someday you’ll be able to think straight. Wake up fool, don’t you realize that when idiots like Rumsfeld spend time focusing on this political opponents rather than winning in Iraq the terrorist when. By the way you, Cheney, Rove, Bush, and Rumsfeld forget that America became a country when we questioned the policies of another King George.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:13 pmLetsGetReadyToRumblesfeld must be really envious of the Zionists as he doesn’t have a heavily abused word like “antisemite” to sledgehammer any opposition into silence. So he’s going down this route instead. At this rate US debacle in Iraq/Afghanistan will be longer than US involvement in WW2. Wasn’t “Mission Accomplished” like 3 years ago?
August 30th, 2006 at 1:14 pmkoolhandluke if there’s one thing history has shown it’s that military “solutions” do not work. Especially when battling a movement/ideaology, which may or may not manifest itself via terrorism. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, after all.
Israel has had problems for over 50 years now. Has the use of top of the range American military hardware, mass civilian punishment and decades of killing innocent and guilty alike… has it worked there? No.
The IRA troubles for the UK? Many, many years of conflict never resolved by more violence. Only dialogue and communication got it to any sort of conclusion and being resolved.
The “War on Terrorism” can never be won militarily because 1) it’s being used and abused by the very people who claim to be protecting us, for other agendas 2) you can not defeat ideas and thoughts by bombing people 3) killing and destroying innocent lives and wrecking countries helps generate even more injustice and anger.
Addition to point 1) said people who are supposed to represent and protect the electorate do neither, and have introduced measures such as the Patriot Act, Warrentless Wiretapping etc. which have eroded American civil liberties, checks and conditions even more so.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:23 pmI found this great response to Joe’s serenity ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRSKJfqSza8
August 30th, 2006 at 1:24 pmAlso worth noting there were no international terrorists/Al Qaeda in Iraq. Saddam was despicable but he wasn’t in bed with international terrorists; he was violently secular and crushed any form of fundamentalist extremism.
The pandemonium and lawlessness has ONLY occurred DIRECTLY as a result of BushCo’s warlust.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:27 pmWhen the guys that actually do the fighting say you full of s%$t (like Batiste)
August 30th, 2006 at 1:34 pmthen you start to blame your incompetence on everyone but yourself, especially if you have a Borderline Personality Disorder.
Koolhandluke – (APPLAUSE – CLAP-CLAP-CLAP) – so very well said, and my sentiments exactly!
August 30th, 2006 at 1:35 pmbones – not borderline – certifiably psychopatic and sociopathic….
August 30th, 2006 at 1:36 pmThe man must have been a complete monster!
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 30, 2006 @ 1:08 pm
I know a lot of you are fond of Clinton. In my opinion Clinton is thousand times more competent than Bush…well, thats a proven fact. But, I would not hurry to praise him. What he and NATO did in Kosovo was a plain slaughter with the so-called excuse of the first war for “altruistic” reasons.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:37 pmRummy-Dummy is melting down; the sooner the better I say.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pmYou sir, have my respect. You understand what a liberal is.
That said, Iraq is a matter of pissing or getting off the pot, you need to either bring in a whole lot more troops to stabilise the situation and to install a MacArthur like government to oversee the change from current chaos to stable democracy, or you need to get out. The current situation is just wasting money.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:44 pmReply to #120: I agree that military force is not the solution to our problems, but we started this war and we have to finish it. I’m a veteran who served 11 years in the United States Army and fought in Combat several times, believe me I don’t wish that on my worst enemy, but we have to do something other than cut and run. I’m currently a Political Consultatnt for Democrats, and I know a winning strategy for getting elected and cut and run isn’t one of them. That’s not what the Democrats are advocating, but the Rove spin machine and easily claim that because our current position seems that way.
The only way for us to turn things around is to elect a majority Democrat Congress and our party will be able to effectively get us out of this mess. There are some legitimate points made by Rummy and the administration. When people think along party line, often, they get in the way of real solutions. Take yourself outside the box so to speak and think about what would happen if we just leave Iraq. The current Iraqi government and military aren’t strong enough to defeat the terrorist because our military hasn’t been able to do it with the best trained and equipped soldiers on the planet. So considering those facts, do you still want to pull out before the job is done? If you let terrorist take over, Iraq just become a base for Bin Laden and his men to plan, and carry out attacks from.
Remember I’m a die hard Democrat, who completely disagrees with Joe Lieberman and the President. However I also have a brain and can think for myself. I spoke with Gov Howard Dean’s office last week about a new strategy if Iraq and am hopeful they will implement it. But my main priorty at this point is not lettting my party put itself in a no win position on Iraq. The current position of withdrawal doesn’t solve the problem Bush and Rumsfeld created by invading Iraq. In other words as Colin Powell, who I served under in Germany has said, “You break it, you fix it”. We as Democrats must not take the opposite position just because Republicans are too stupid to figure out a solution to the problem. It is all of our problem because whether we like it or not, Bush is our President and he invaded Iraq on our behalf.
So lets give our party the best opportunity to win November by having them come up with real solutions, not just a withdrawal strategy. Our soldiers haven’t died for no reason, and a withdrawal strategy means just that.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:49 pmJuan C
Most governments are fairly murderous; it is why the Buddha decided in one story, when he was born the heir to the throne, to pretend to be mentally deficient. It is not possible to rule and still be good, and frequently stupid, stupid blunders lead to a lot of death. Clinton was a good peace time president, a challenge which is a thousand times more difficult then being a good war-president because the glamour is less and you have to really perform in order to gain any recognition whatsoever, he wasn’t a perfect peace time president.
August 30th, 2006 at 1:51 pm130. Would that also include shining a light on the Blackwater security (”contractors”) deal and get RID OF THEM FOR GOOD?
August 30th, 2006 at 1:57 pmAs I’ve said before, the American public is growing immune to terror threats. We’ve seen too many of them turn out to be so much smoke and mirrors.
After serving up the monarch of 9/11, the administration has followed with a long succession of viceroys, expecting us to react the way they desire us to on the basis of fear alone. For a while, this worked, but after terror threat after terror threat has been shown to be either a government entrapment scheme, a ridiculous exaggeration of a non-threat, or a outright hoax, we’re slowly figuring out that the orange and black butterflies are no threat at all.
The coloration of the administration’s terror threats is fast becoming meaningless. Faced with the knowledge that bluff is no longer effective, the administration will go beyond mere bluff to secure the currency of the terror threat.
In short, expect another butterfly soon. But this one won’t be a harmless viceroy, but a deadly monarch. The next ‘terrorist incident’ will cost lives. It’s the only way the neocons can revalue the terror threat.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pmSo considering the striking parrallels of the rise of the Nazi party and the Bush administration that have been made over the last 6 years, the new republican talking points have been filterered down to “I know you are but what am I“?
August 30th, 2006 at 2:02 pmhe wasn’t a perfect peace time president.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 30, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
Bruce, I respect you and your balanced posts, but I didnt read in your response the slightest remorse for what Clinton did. I think you reflected very well the egocentrism of citizens from US or other I World country.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pmSo Rumsfeld perceives that his critics are acting like “Hitler appeasers”. It’s interesting that the Bush administration solution to this “problem” is to implement Hitler-like tactics and policies. Is this projection, or what?
August 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pmI would think those that flew planes into the World Trade Center Buildings and the Pentagon, those that are killing our troop in Iraq and Afghanistan are filled with a little scorn and contempt. Don’t ya think?
Comment by dlet — August 30, 2006 @ 10:41 am
Just one question here, did you actually see the plane crashing the Pentagon?
August 30th, 2006 at 2:21 pmAs I recall history, states like Germany, Italy, Russia, and Japan were ruled by one dictators who killed anyone who questioned their decisions. Sound familiar without the killing part? Fools like you go marching right alone with the party, just like the Germans did during the 1930s.
Without the killing part? Ask again.
3,000 civilians in NYC on Sept. 11.
2,600 US soldiers in Iraq since 2003
10,000 + Iraqis…
Rewind to:
JFK, RFK… or anyone who was vocal enough to come forward with a different point of view against the conservatives thugs has either been threatened, demoted, fired or killed. But we will never find out the truth as they have the investigators and reporters in their pockets. That is what is so wrong in this country. CORRUPTION. Until this generation of political killers stop pro-creating or simply die themselves, we will never see an end to this useless carnage.
Fast forward to:
November 2006: All Democrats HOPEFULLY will win in majority but not without being smeared, ridiculed and harrassed based on their sexual orientaion, past weed smoking, drug indulging, mental illness, extra-marital affairs, adoption, abortion, you name it… anything that the thugs can come-up with, they will. The media will cater to their republican bosses and the propaganda wheel will keep on turning in the GOP’s favor.
A never ending circus of poor thinking against the poor people of America and a profitable killing machine for the rich people of America.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:24 pm#135 Juan,
I am sure that Bruce is more than capable of responding to you himself, but I need to ask: What did Clinton do for which Americans should feel remorse? Leading the West into stopping genocide in the Balkans?
August 30th, 2006 at 2:28 pmJuan C
I am a South African. We have something like 30% unemployment, half the population dying of AIDS, enough murders a day to rival most war zones, baby rape capital of the world, a government with 2/3rds support, Bafana Bafana (Our soccer side, good mainly for comic relief), we are getting the World Cup* etc… There are good things, such as our growing economy and movements towards recovery, but we are distinctly third world.
The thing is that too much in the way of monstrous action occurs nowadays, too many massacres, too many nutters trying to force the end of the world in the hopes of seeing their gods, too many people talking like Nazis for me to really see Clinton as a villain.
Clinton had his faults, but his time in office was a time of relative calm. Bush has succeeded in destroying that calm and replacing it with chaos. Remember when things were good and it was okay to criticise the American president?
*Why this is a bad thing: Read the rest of the list.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:32 pmShorter Rummy: Unless you agree to accept a fascist government by giving up your Constitutional rights, we cannot protect you from the facists who seek to take away your Constitutional rights.
Shorter Rummy: The Iraq war has benn a giant clusterfuck from the beginning. Shut up and allow us to continue the clusterfucking, out of which will surely emerge VICTORY (eventually)
Logic; it’s not for neocons and never was
August 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pmWell I’ll say this.
Rummy got it ALMOST right.
What he meant to say was Bush supporters are like the German people who supported Hitler.
Thats what he meant to say.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:41 pmBush supporters are like the German citizens living outside of Buchenwald who said “oh we didn’t know. We thought they were burning rubbish“.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:42 pmAs the world begins to achknowledge our crimes in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, and Hadifa and Ramadi, the right wing will suddenly develop a collective case of selective memory loss.
Oh we didn’t know they’ll say.
We thought they were killing terrorists.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:44 pmExley
Nothing really that shameful, tragic, but to some extent, well I leave it to you to read through.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War
August 30th, 2006 at 2:49 pm#144,
A frequent Clinton critic, I nonetheless fully supported his and NATO’s actions in the Balkans in the 1990s. While the United Nations characteristically dithered as the Serbs conducted ethnic cleansing, Clinton rallied the Western powers into mustering the moral will to stop the genocide. It was Clinton’s finest moment.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:01 pmReply to #130
You claim, like the neoconservatives, that the U.S. should not, to use your simplistic expression, cut and run from Iraq. I submit that a more relevant phrase, by remaining in that quagmire in Iraq, is to stay and die. You say that you were in the Army for 11 years. During that time that you spent in the Army, did you ever read or did anyone ever tell you about a place that the United States was involved in many years back, a place called Vietnam? During that time period, the administration and the military brass were saying the same thing back then as they are saying today: we must stay the course, freedom is on the march, we are this close to bringing democracy to these third world barbarians, etc. When will people lke you ever realize that the United States cannot and should not impose democracy upon anyone at the point of a gun?
You cite Powell’s phrase “you break it, you fix it”. Again, when will liberal hawks like yourself ever realize that Iraq is not yours to fix? A majority of Iraqis have stated in a poll taken a few months back that they want the United States to withdraw by the end of the year. A poll taken of American enlisted men and women in Iraq indicated that at least 60 per cent of them want the U.S. to at least set up a timetable so they can finally leave Iraq. How much clearer can that be? Whein I think of Iraq I think of the acronymn ICROP- Invade, Conquer, Rape, Occupy, Pillage.
The reasons why the Iraqis, justifiably, want the U.S. to leave their homeland and the reason why Lt. Watada has, justifiably, refused to deploy to Iraq is because both parties realize that the United States is guilty of waging atrocities against the Iraqi people on a daily basis and of violating the Nuremberg Principes, which involve crimes againast peace and crimes against humanity.
The last thing that should be done in Iraq is to stay and die all for, as Cindy Sheehan has pointed out, a less than noble cause. There have been over 2600 Americans who have died in Iraq and thousands more who have returned to this country grievously wounded and maimed and crippled. How many more Americans have to die for some elusive, ambiguous noble cause? 5000? 20,000? How about 58,000? Is any of this possibly getting through to you? What this country needs is more people like Lt. Watada and Ricky Clousing and Kevin Benderman and Camilo Mejia and those in the book Mission Rejected and others who have said NO to that abattoir in Iraq. The U.S. has earned the lasting enmity of the Iraqi people by humiliating and beating and killing them on a daily basis. It is also the reason why the U.S. has not learned the primary lesson of Vietnam, which is that an occupied citizenry wil stop at nothing until the invader, i.e. the United States, is driven from their homeland. This country needs more people and politicians, not less, speaking out on behalf of withdrawal. Bring those troops home safely- NOW!
August 30th, 2006 at 3:08 pm#130 – I agree that military force is not the solution to our problems, but we started this war and we have to finish it.
Short version. No we don’t.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:10 pmLong version. You can’t win this one unless you kill EVERY Iraqi and make the entire country unihabitable by any form of life.
#39, Buck,
Bush Sr. stopped short of invading Iraq, because he was trying to strictly follow the UN resolutions that gave the coalition forces authority for their actions to evict Iraq from Kuwait. It was assumed that the UN would contain and control Iraq, so that it would never again threaten it’s neighbors. Unfortunately, the thoroughly corrupt Kofi Anan assumed control of the UN, and failed to enforce resolutions and failed to build another coalition of nations to punish Saddam when he violated peace agreements.
It was important for Bush Sr. NOT to invade Iraq, to demonstrate that the US could engage in a limited war, to cure the US public of the Vietnam syndrome. Now we see that half measures don’t work with regimes that don’t recongize international laws and other sovereign nations, and that dubya’s current actions (as with Israel’s response to Hezbollah) are the only viable solution.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:11 pmExley
It was Clinton’s moment of incompetence; he didn’t know what else to do so he did the only thing left. Honestly, I don’t know what else he could have done either, but I think his finest moment was helping bring peace between Egypt and Israel, not Kosovo. Peace may not be as glamorous as war, but good government isn’t glamorous. That’s why we all normally elect ugly people.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:14 pm#148 – Jason, you’re dreaming . ALL Bush senior advisers said publically that invading Iraq would open the doors of hell and get the US involved in an insoluble prolonged horrible war. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH PROVING THE US COULD ENGAGE IN LIMITED WAR. More intelligent heads pointed out what happens when you get George Custered by the enemy, and WAA LAA George junior just knew better than daddy.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:15 pmI love my “Ihate America” crowd. That is why I spend time everyday reading what you, the hate america, crowd has to say.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:22 pmBruce, I think you mean Israel and the “Palestinians” (The Israeli-Egypt peace was brokered by Jimmy Carter).
Sure, Clinton deserves credit for his efforts at Camp David in 2000. If Arafat and the Palestinians had accepted the plan proposed at Camp David by the Israelis, instead of walking away from a proposal that pretty much gave the Palestinians everything they claimed they wanted, much death and destruction that has since taken place in the Mid-East might have been avoided.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:23 pmRoger_Rogered, who saiid anything about “I hate America” you stupid moron? Don’t you know the founding fathers were pretty much against corporate and large government control of the nation?! EXACTLY what is going on today, is what they were escaping from Europe from.
My God people like you are such damned ignorant idiots, happy to sit idly by while all that was great about the nation is pissed away like so much cheap booze. Your kind BLINDLY defends Government, COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF THE FOUNDING IDEALS OF THE NATION.
Idiot.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:28 pmRoger_Roger
We oppose the policies of GW Bush. We believe the current Republican government (Which it is at all levels) is corrupt, and acting against the best interests of America, as well as harming the rest of the world.
As a citizen of a developing country this concerns me because when America sinks, so does the world economy and the countries that are most effected are normally those that are developing.
I supported Clinton, not whole heartedly, there were things I disagreed with, but never once accused anybody who disliked Clinton’s policies of hating America. Of course, this is because I have a brain, I realise there is a difference between America and its leadership, and that America’s leadership can change.
Tell me, under Clinton, were you anti-America? Did you hate America? Did you feel that America should be brought to its knees? I honestly don’t think so. Indeed, I think you waved your flag with the same intensity as you do now, and accused Clinton supporters of being anti-American.
Frankly, I think it is time you grew up.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:31 pmAugust 30th, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Ron Dumbsfeld THINKS WE’RE ALL TORIES.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#148: “It was assumed that the UN would contain and control Iraq, so that it would never again threaten it’s neighbors. Unfortunately, the thoroughly corrupt Kofi Anan assumed control of the UN, and failed to enforce resolutions and failed to build another coalition of nations to punish Saddam when he violated peace agreements.” – by Jason M. Hendler
Jason, you seem to be forgetting that, under “the thoroughly corrupt Kofi Anan,” the UN effectively DISARMED Saddam Hussein, at least insofar as his WMD and long-range capabilities were concerned. Foreign policy and international relations aren’t pretty, Jason, but the important thing is they’re effective. The UN WAS attempting to enforce its resolutions (albeit not necessarily through the use of force), but the UN understood that the primary objective was to dismantle Iraq’s WMD programs. Which it did – Just ask the Dear Leader, who continually reminds us that, ooops! Iraq didn’t have WMD after all.
All in all, I’d say “corrupt” ol’ Kofi Anan was far more effective in dealing with Iraq that the Bushwhacker.
And, as the son of a WWII combat veteran, I’d like that dirt-bag Rumsfeld to come here to Chicago and call me a “Hitler appeaser” to my face!
August 30th, 2006 at 4:17 pmLeading the West into stopping genocide in the Balkans?
Comment by Exley — August 30, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
According to the conventional media. Yes.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:20 pmThe genocide began once NATO began the bombings. Read this.
Im sure you wont like it, but try to dispute the facts.
Oh, and one more thing, Jason. No matter what one thinks of Israel’s recent incursion into Lebanon, at least Hezbollah had directly attacked Israel on prior occasions and violated Israel’s sovereignty by crossing over the border to kidnap Israeli soldiers. We could argue forever over whether Israel’s subsequent actions were justified, but at least Israel was responding to acts of aggression directed at Israel, not some phantom menace that never actually existed.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:23 pmSpeaking of Don Rumsfeld’s Greatest Video Hits, here’s my favorite: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
August 30th, 2006 at 4:26 pmtoo many people talking like Nazis for me to really see Clinton as a villain.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:28 pmComment by Bruce Gorton
My point was that, it doesnt matter how evil Hitler was or how dumb Bush is. A murderer is a murderer, no matter if he contributed to a stable economy or jobs produced. It is easy to take sides, Dem or Rep, (I know, you are netiher) but that doesnt mean anything; what you do is the important thing. Clinton bombed innocent people. How that can be good?. (this post was mostly for Exley, I guess)
Roger_Roger’
I have a daughter and when she was young and did something against my values, what should I have done? Is “loving” her enough? Or should I, out of that love, criticize and correct her so that she becomes the best person she possibly can?
Is “loving” my country enough? Or should I, out of that love, criticize and correct her so that she becomes the best country she possibly can?
To me the answers are the same. Love = discipline, for child or country. You can shove that “hate America crowd” crap into whatever body orifice of yours that you choose. I am absolutely sick of those “anti-American” labels for progressives.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:34 pm#158 Oh, Juan, the first sign that people have no real argument is when they start citing well-known apologist for genocidal dicatators and conspiracy theorist Noam Chomsky. You going to be citing Lyndon LaRouche next? Come on, let’s get serious…Clinton, to his great credit, in the face of Russian obstructionism, rallied NATO to stop Milosevic’s ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. As a result of Clinton’s efforts, the ethnic cleansing stopped, Milosevic was eventually arrested for crimes against humanity, and peace was restored in the former Yugoslavia. I was no Clinton fan, but as I said earlier, his efforts in the Balkans were his finest hour.
Now, what would YOU have done to stop Milosevic?
August 30th, 2006 at 4:36 pmRumsfeld and a Wagon full of Bull
Perhaps showing the first signs of madness, as the prospect of impeachment and prosecution looms large, Rumsfeld tortures and reinvents the word ‘fascist’. and so within a lie lies perhaps a kernel of truth.
In a rabid and ranting attack on war critics, which includes most of the world, Rumsfeld slams those who exercise freedom as enemies of freedom, if that makes any sense, in the same sentence. That this audacious idiot, this puffed up Napoleon, could buffalo such a ridicules self contradiction in an enraged lashing at those who would dare question the murderous moron is one thing. But he, a principal in the greatest fascist machinery ever constructed and an architect of state terrorism is in fact part of a shadow government that has imposed fascism upon this world for over 100 years and it’s time this cancer on democracy was called on it.
There never would have been a rise to power for Adolph Hitler if not for the millions pumped into him by Wall St and our industry giants, all funneled through Bush’s grandfather, great grandfather and the first director of the CIA. Discovered in this treason, these heads of business managed to convince Roosevelt that he could not wage WWII without their industries and took over defense and intelligence branches of the government. Billions of people on this planet lead less than fulfilled lives thanks to the destruction and terrorism sown by CIA Director Allen Dulles and his successors throught the Americas, Asia and Africa. The legacy of poverty and death still linger in broken societies through out the world wrought by the murderous greed of our industrial and financial monsters. John F Kennedy never would of died if we heeded Eisenhower’s dire warning “beware of the military industrial complexâ€. But Kennedy threatened the profits of big business if he didn’t wage the Vietnam War and so he had to go. Many of the principals in that killing re-emerged in the Nixon White House, where Rumsfeld and Cheney were molded by GWH Bush, the eastern intelligence mob and New World Order nuts like Nelson Rockeller, the fascist of Exxon, and ramped up the Nazi killing machine. Check the books for 1973, follow your finger around the globe: Chile, Greece, Argentina, Operation Condor, the fake Paris peace talks or bombings, the Yom Kippur war, our first oil crisis and the fed’s massacre at Wounded Knee. Back again in Bonzo’s term, Papa Bush was very busy, what with deals with Iran to hold the hostages a little longer to genocide in El Salvador and Nicaragua while introducing crack cocaine to America’s inner cities. They had to wait a little longer when Bush’s MK Ultra boy, Hinkley didn’t kill Reagan. Now they are back, draining the nation’s coffers, while stuffing their own, practicing false flag terrorism on their own country and beating the hell out of anything that looks like it might challenge the dictatorship. That babies, grandparents, soccer kids, fathers and mothers are being snuffed off this earth in Iraq while this blowhard digs a new depth to quagmire means little to this pompous gas bag.
But lets turn to the dictionary’s entry for fascism: the marriage of industry and government with a strong dictatorship controlling all aspects of society. Sound familiar? I’m wondering how any educated reporters sitting in the audience managed not to vapor lock at this obvious torture of the word’s definition. I mean if the man said the world was flat, would that go unchallenged into the news? Even drum pounder CNN is doing a little soul searching lately for their role in the road to folly. History is full of jerks trying to justify the bad things they do. It’s our job not to give credence to insanity. Somebody, please, fire this madman, prosecute and confine him for war crimes somewhere appropriate, like Abu Graib. And lets crowbar a little common sense back into reality. If the ranting lunatic is so far off the mark on everything from 9-11 to the daggon dictionary, maybe, maybe it’s high time we examine the secret squirrel’s explanation for why the towers fell down. It was Rummy who was running Operation Able Danger, dusted off from the Operation Northwood’s file. It was Rummy who set up a disinformation conduit with Wolfwitz, Feith and the Office of Chalabi. And it was Rummy who waged war on the wrong country, operating straight out of the defense industry Christmas catalog with plenty of sugar plums for Carlyle and Halliburton. And oh yeah, who was in that photograph shaking hands with Saddam in 1982, after he gassed the Kurds and the Iranians? Donald the fascist fumbler Rumsfeld. So lets call a duck a duck, a disaster a disaster, and a liar, unemployed.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:43 pmOh, Juan, the first sign that people have no real argument is when they start citing well-known apologist for genocidal dicatators and conspiracy theorist Noam Chomsky.
Thats not what they said when he talked in West Point. So I have no argument because I present you an article of a guy who is famous all around the world less in US? I have no argument because I posted a link to the site of a guy whose critics cant dispute him when it comes to facts? Again, you are all heart, no reason. You are quick to jump under the banner of patriotism without questioning why these things happen…so OFTEN! Did you read it before posting the “no-argument” post?
As a result of Clinton’s efforts, the ethnic cleansing stopped, Milosevic was eventually arrested for crimes against humanity
Yeah, sure. Milosevic was a former communist turned into a dictator…and an IMF boy. And no, the ethnic cleansing BEGAN when NATO BEGAN the bombing. But, Im sure you will say that Sandinistas were a real threat to your country, just like East Timor, somalians, and that all the criminal supports or landings from US into weak, destroyed, plundered countries are justified by some ridiculous propaganda you learn since you were a kid.
and peace was restored in the former Yugoslavia.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:50 pmare you sure?
Juan C
The signs were all there. The place was headed for genocide long before the bombs fell, they just accelerated it. This is a part of history where I can make no judgements though, it just seems to be such a waste. I guess that is the nature of war, wasted people, wasted lives, wasted potential, and wasted time.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:57 pmCNN is doing a story on the Situation Room right now about Rummy calling us anyone who disagrees with the President sympathizers of Hitler.
August 30th, 2006 at 4:59 pmI have read enough of Chomsky’s defenses of people like Pol Pot and Milosevic to last me a lifetime, Juan…So, we will set aside any discussion of the odious Mr. Chomsky.
Juan, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Your claim that Milosevic’s ethnic cleansing did not begin until 1998 or 1999 is laughable and completely contrary to known history.
I would suggest you look into some of the information disclosed by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia regarding the Serbs actions in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosovo throughtout the 1990s. http://www.un.org/icty/
You seem like a decent sort, Juan. But defending people like Milosevic does not reflect well upon you.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:05 pmNow, what would YOU have done to stop Milosevic?
Comment by Exley — August 30, 2006 @ 4:36 pm
The people would have revolted, just like in Iran or France or India or Russia. I dont have to do anything. Thats the difference. You think is your (US citizens) duty to “fix” things in the world. Well, 1) you dont fix shit, 2) you just “fix” what your government tells you where there is a great danger so you have to fix it. First, fix the way US treats black people, gays, poor people and then, try to clean all the mess oyuve been doing all around the world. And, Im not a US hater. Im sure people in the US wants to live happy just as much as a in Bangladesh. But ignorant people will think that happiness is whatever the media and the government tell them. Right now, the only thing that would make happy a lot of people in the US is to stop being afraid, so the government uses that for its own profit. I know you will say I am lunatic…whatever, every fact agrees with me in that governments dont give a shit about its people.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:07 pmBut defending people like Milosevic does not reflect well upon you.
Comment by Exley — August 30, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
I thought we were being adults. Where do I defended Milosevic?
August 30th, 2006 at 5:10 pmPardon my english..that was Where did I defend Milosevic?
August 30th, 2006 at 5:12 pmWhy wont you post my comment
August 30th, 2006 at 5:12 pm#169 The people would have revolted, just like in Iran or France or India or Russia. I dont have to do anything.
So, if I understand you, Juan, it is your feeling that no nation or people ever should come to the aid of another nation or people who are facing oppression, torture, aggression, genocide, etc. It’s every person for himself or herself in Juan’s world.
If a people don’t have the strength or numbers to fight back against a genocidal dictator or invading army, then, well, that is just too bad for them? Is that what you are saying? Survival of the fittest, eh?
Well, that certainly is a position to which you are entitled, Juan. It just strikes me as somewhat cold, detached, and heartless.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:14 pmEither way, wer’e doomed.
I know I dont care anymore. “I’m ready to be shot behind the chemical sheds”.
If bushco gets impeached and Democrats take control, there wont be any new legislation, the pugs will see to that. They will fight it all the way with help from the controled media. Can you say Monica? Good.
If busco and the pugs retain their power, ( I believe the shrub will declare martial law indefinitly, thus becoming the last, and worst, american president. but that is neither here nor there), then we will be at constant war or under threat of war or terrorism or communism or just plain jism.
Or, the rest of the world will just say ‘f**k it’ and kick the piss out of america and then we will be ruled by some other faction, probably england.
No matter what scenario plays out, america is screwed. I am sooo glad I have no children, and I pity those of you who do.
I know I sound like a defeatist, but, I have been on top of this political scene since that little pukeball took the office.
As a veteran, and former christian, ( I say former because, if king w represents christianity, then I must be a satan worshipper, using his logic, of course ), I can say that since January 2001, this america began it’s slow spiral down the toilet, with no accountability. The “liberal” media is stuck so deep inside cheneys colon it as become impossible for me to watch or read it. BTW, If there is a “liberal” media, please tell me where it is, and don’t say cnn or cbs, because niether is either.
Ok, I have had my say, thank you for taking the time. For all the progressives here, I’m on your side. I would suggest the koolaid drinkers to go to hell, however, I am already there and I don’t want their company.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:15 pmIn the end, they all get what they deserve.
#170. Juan….By making excuses for Milosevic, by falsely claiming his war crimes / crimes against humanity did not begin until NATO took actions against him in 1998/1999 is to offer a defense of him.
The indictments against Milosevic in the ICTY lists crimes goings back to 1991.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:18 pmThis prog lather seems a bit redundant. Yesterday, progs were insulted to be correctly labelled “quitters”. Today progs are offended to be termed appeasers ala Neville “Ineffective” Chamberlain. (Progs continually tell us “IF only we quit supporting Israel, they’ll leave us alone.”) Sounds like appeasement to me…..
#157 – “And, as the son of a WWII combat veteran, I’d like that dirt-bag Rumsfeld to come here to Chicago and call me a “Hitler appeaser†to my face!”
–Comment by Dave vonEbers
*******Dear DaveESQ – If your’re fortunate to have a living father please, send my thanks to him for his service to our country. If YOU served in the military, please accept my thanks. If you were too busy to serve, thanks for nothing….
#162 – “I am absolutely sick of those “anti-American†labels for progressives.”
–Comment by PLC (PatrioticLiberalChristian)
********Dear PhonyLiberalChristian – I don’t understand why the term anti-American offends progressives…..they worked hard for that label…they earned it….
Back to work….
August 30th, 2006 at 5:19 pmAwesome! MA is back! Time for my daily dose of “smack-down”!! I’ve been waiting all day …
August 30th, 2006 at 5:23 pmSo, if I understand you, Juan, it is your feeling that no nation or people ever should come to the aid of another nation or people who are facing oppression, torture, aggression, genocide, etc. It’s every person for himself or herself in Juan’s world.
Just as you put it, all countries should attack US.
Facing oppression: Cuba, Iraq, Iran, etc…
Torture: People in Abu Gharib and Gitmo.
Aggression: 14 y/o Iraqi girl and a lot of civilians injured and dead by cluster bombs
Genocide: Nagasaki, Hiroshima, KOSOVO, Iraq, Vietnam…
Got it? Oh, I know, you are the good guys.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:24 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 30, 2006 @ 5:19 pm
You know I didn’t think diarrhea had a sound on the internet, I was wrong. You can hear it every time Might Asshat spews her evil vomitus anal verbage.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:29 pmBy making excuses for Milosevic, by falsely claiming his war crimes / crimes against humanity did not begin until NATO took actions against him in 1998/1999 is to offer a defense of him.
Milosevic is as murderer as Clinton. Period.
Human Rights Watch conducted a detailed investigation of civilian deaths in the Yugoslav war, visiting ninety-one cities, towns, and villages in the former Yugoslavia over a three-week period in August 1999, and inspecting forty-two of the sites where civilian deaths occurred.
The investigation concluded that NATO committed violations of international humanitarian law. Human Rights Watch called on NATO governments to establish an independent and impartial commission to investigate these violations and issue its findings publicly. NATO governments should also alter targeting and bombing doctrine to ensure compliance with international humanitarian law, Human Rights Watch said.
The 79-page Human Rights Watch report reveals for the first time that U.S. commanders issued a secret executive order in May 1999 for U.S. forces to cease using cluster bombs, whose use had been documented in a Human Rights Watch report on May 11. As many as 150 civilians died in various incidents involving the use of cluster bombs until May 13. British forces continued using cluster bombs even after U.S. forces discontinued their use.
“For a war with the reputation of being the smartest in history, there is an unfortunate pattern of NATO ignoring many important lessons from previous conflicts,” said William M. Arkin, military consultant to Human Rights Watch and the team leader of the Yugoslav bomb damage assessment. He said that restrictions on daylight attacks, prohibitions on the use of cluster bombs, greater care in attacking mobile targets, and more care in identifying military targets could all have reduced the level of civilian casualties during Operation Allied Force, as the NATO bombing campaign was known.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:31 pmExley. I have to go. I promise I will read more about this issue and try to be balanced. Good evening.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:34 pmThat’s very cute, Juan. But it is also quite evasive. You haven’t answered my questions — Under your formulations, no country or people should ever come to the aid of another group of people or another nation that is facing genocide, oppression, crimes against humanity from an outside (or even indigenous) force. Is that the Juan C Doctrine? Those weaker groups or nations that face such trauma are on their own? Is that correct?
I am really trying to understand your views on the responsibility of nations to assist militarily other nations. Is military intervention ever justified? If so, please provide one or two examples of foreign intervention that satisfy the tenets of the Juan Doctrine?
August 30th, 2006 at 5:37 pmReply to #146; First of all Erroll, I did spend 11 years in the United States Army, so get the fact straight before you start throwing jabs. Second, why didn’t you spend time in the military fighting for the rights you like to exercise. Third I’m not going along with the stupid neocons, I totally disagree with their chickenhawh policies. My point was; we are in Iraq regardless of what anyone says and we need an effective exit strategy. Of the two offered to date by Republicans and Democrats neither makes sense. We can’t just leave and let terrorist take over moron and I’ll tell you why. They are intent on destroying the United States for reasons only they can understand. If Bin Laden has Iraq as a base he can strike at us at his leisure and quess what. Yes, that’s right we’d have to go right back over there to get him. He’s hiding right now with no real place to feel confortable. If he has Iraq as a middle eastern base to plan attacks from, how do we stop him. Rememeber even Democrats agree Bin Laden was behind 9-11, so are you ready for another attack because we left Iraq for him to take over. No my friend even if I have to go and fight, I’d rather stay and get the job done. If we don’t you won’t be able to hide behind a computer you’ll have to fight too. I’m not taking the Bush administration line on this, I’ve studied this issue for over 20 years.
I was calling for the United States to capture Osama Bin Landen back in 1989 because I realized he was a threat to our security. Some of my friends at the time thought I was crazy, but after 9-11, they said; “You always said we should go after Bin Laden”. I’m not some idiot who discovered foreign terrorist after 9-11. I was a former Infantry soldier and I studied everything from the Soviet Union to Middle Eastern terrorism. I felt I had to prepare myself for any eventually the military might face. Unlike you Erroll I was not suprised when we invaded Grenada, I saw it coming before the media announced it.
Erroll what people like you do is sit around and make snap decisions about things without thinking them through. That’s how we got into Iraq in the first place. If the Bush adminstration had thought before they acted they would have not invaded Iraq. I wrote a piece last year saying that Iran was the real threat, which noone took serious. If you pay attention now, the media and the adminstration finally realizes it. I am not only a Democrat, but I’m a delegate to my state party, and national Democratic Party, and I advice Democrats on strategy. Erroll if you want to withdraw and have another 9-11 happen, just keep pushing for that idea.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:37 pm#181 Fair enough, Juan….Have a good night.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:38 pmoh good, mighty tripey’s going back to work whoring.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:39 pmdon’t catch anything, tripey! remember, you have plan b now so there’s no excuse for cursing humanity with more of your hopeless offspring. it’s really not fair to them, either, since you’re a failure as a human being and a mother and you beat your children anyway.
iraq is a sectarian war, luke.
terrorists and al qaeda account for a very small percentage of the violence that’s happening there.
and have you ever considered that as long as we say we want to destroy them, they’re going to think they have to destroy us? see how that works? it’s a never-ending cycle of violence.
the war on terror is just the cold war in different clothes. military contractors and the defense industry just loved the cold war — they made out like bandits.
and you know what? military contractors and the defense industry just love the war on terror, too.
now, that peace that came after the cold war really sucked for them.
i wonder if they have a motive to perpetuate war, luke?
the only way another 9/11 is going to happen is because republicans that run this country have completely dropped the ball on REAL homeland security — airport security, port security, border security, and security for nuclear facilities, to name a few.
just a little bit of that money we’ve spent on iraq would’ve paid for machines that can detect the chemical explosives that may have been attempted to be used in the most recent uk bomb threats.
so don’t go calling people morons, when you obviously haven’t thought things through, luke.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:49 pmThis prog lather seems a bit redundant. Yesterday, progs were insulted to be correctly labelled “quittersâ€. Today progs are offended to be termed appeasers ala Neville “Ineffective†Chamberlain.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 30, 2006 @ 5:19 pm
And Mighty ASStrodiapie seems a little defensive, I mean there’s no reason for her to be upset being correctly labeled a cheap lying whore with a fetid womb and crap for brains. I don’t understand her feeling offended to call her what she is.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#176 Tiny Hermaphrodite
Today progs are offended to be termed appeasers ala Neville “Ineffective†Chamberlain.
Funny thing. Every time I hear “Neville Chamberlain”, I picture Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.
If YOU served in the military, please accept my thanks. If you were too busy to serve, thanks for nothing….
Should we assume from that that you served?
I don’t understand why the term anti-American offends progressives…..they worked hard for that label…they earned it…
I can’t think of anything more anti-American than wiping your ass on the Constitution, which is what your beloved president and his party have been doing for five years now.
You’re the one who wants a dictator, MA. You’re the one who wants to live in a dictatorship. You’re the one that can’t stand America the way it’s been for 230 years. You’re the one who wants to destroy everything that Americans have fought and died to preserve.
If you and your robotic Republican pals want to live in a dictatorship so bad, go start your own somewhere else. Quit trying to f*ck up this country. I’ll help you pack.
August 30th, 2006 at 5:56 pmAnyone just here Tucker Carlson talking about Rumsfeld’s comments equating us to Hitler sympathizers?
He was livid.
He called the War in Iraq a LUDICROUS WAR. He’s calling Rumsfeld’s statements absurd and he was raging on his guest.
Go Tucker.
August 30th, 2006 at 6:00 pmtripey hasn’t served. oh, she’ll say she has, but she’s lying, just like when she says she’s a lawyer.
americans who have served in the military and are now lawyers don’t use spellings like favour and neighbour. a law degree requires intensive legal writing courses, and certainly being a lawyer requires a better command of the english language and grammar — and incidentally, better debating and reasoning skills — than tripey has EVER demonstrated here.
furthermore, what kind of attorney, between “clients”, spends the rest of their time commenting on a news blog? tripey is a fraud and a joke. i hope she comes back so i can berate her more.
August 30th, 2006 at 6:53 pm#141 Woofie; BULLSEYE!!!!
August 30th, 2006 at 7:11 pm“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive.”
Thomas Jefferson
August 30th, 2006 at 7:15 pmAugust 30th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
James Madison
August 30th, 2006 at 7:17 pmPatriotism means to stand by the country.
It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official…”
Theodore Roosevelt
August 30th, 2006 at 7:20 pmAugust 30th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
George Washington.
Thomas Jefferson.
James Madison.
Teddy Roosevelt.
Dwight D Eisenhower.
:|
All traitors and Hitler sympathizers according to old “Blood-n-Guts” Rummy.
August 30th, 2006 at 7:23 pm…half-measures don’t work with regimes that don’t recognize international laws and other sovereign nations…
August 30th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
exley:
Under your formulations, no country or people should ever come to the aid of another group of people or another nation that is facing genocide, oppression, crimes against humanity from an outside (or even indigenous) force.
i would say it depends on what form that “aid” takes.
did we come to the aid of iran in 1953, when we overthrew the democratically elected prime minister to install a tyrannical regime that tortured and murdered countless iranians by the hand of savak, the cia-initiated iranian secret police (an action that led ultimately to the fundamentalist uprising in 1979 — when america was declared the “great satan”)?
did we come to the aid of guatemala in 1954, when, under the guise of a “communist threat” (which there was none of the sort), we overthrew the democratically-elected president, installed a military dictator, the result of which was two decades of murder, kidnapping and civil strife?
did we come to the aid of cambodia in 1969 when we bombed that country, immediately causing a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions that would lead directly to the rise of power of pol pot?
did we come to the aid of chile in 1973 when we helped pinochet overthrow and assassinate democratically-elected president salvador allende, leading to a reign of terror — ably assisted by the cia-supported chilean secret intelligence agency dina — that included murder, kidnapping, torture and arrests without probable cause?
did we come to the aid of east timor in 1975, while we sold weapons to indonesia — a country that we gave the go-ahead to invade east timor (and sold weapons), and went on to commit genocide there?
how many more examples of “aid” from america should i cite?
given our record of getting involved in other countries, would you say it’s best to trust our government to do the right thing, or leave the “aid” to the appropriate international organizations who don’t have other vested interests (or a track record for ruining countries)?
you do realize this has been going on non-stop since about 1947, when the national security act was passed?
look, exley — history proves that our government has a much longer record of installing tyrants and despots who will cause human suffering than it has of giving “aid”. and in the long run, every one of these examples i’ve mentioned has led to even more suffering and have made the world a more dangerous place.
so i’d have to say america should NOT be “giving aid” — because when we give aid, history shows, MORE PEOPLE SUFFER, and we end up harming our own interests in the long run, as we’re doing now in iraq.
August 30th, 2006 at 7:24 pmKoolhandluke
I frankly do not consider your moniker to be all that cool. Progressaurus rex articulated in an excellent manner what would have been the bulk of my rebuttal to you. Did you actually take the time to read what I had said at #146? I never said that you were not in the Army for 11 years. If you had actually read what I said, you would have noticed that I questioned during the time that you were in the Army if you had ever heard of a place called Vietnam. Instead, you, for some bizarre reason, bring up the topic of Grenada which, like Vietnam, the United States had no reason invading. Regarding military service, for more than thirty five years, I was able, for the most part, to keep buried the memories of what I had gone through in that place called Vietnam. When Bush unwisely decided to order those troops into Iraq, I began to think more and more of the time that I had spent over there and decided that I would speak out more than before. I suspect that subconsciouusly I was unable to say much against the Vietnam War back then because I had a lot of trouble dealing with looking back. Now it is with a sense of anger because, as I attempted to explain to you, apparently to no avail, the U.S. seems to have learned nothing from that debacle in Vietnam. I have somewhat vowed not to be indifferent as I was those many years ago.
The major reason that 9/11 happened and the reason that the terrorists are fighting the U.S. [there are not that many of them- Murtha has repeatedly stated that they only comprise 7, not 70 but 7 per cent of those who are fighting against the U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq] is because of the unnecessary and inflammatory presence of the United States. The overwhelming majority of those fighting against the U.S. are the resistance fighters, who, as I tried to point out before, again apparently to no avail, will continue to fight against the U.S., just as the Vietnamese did, until the occupying force of the United States is finally driven from their homeland. That is why leaving quickly will help the insurgency collapse. As independent journalist Nir Rosen pointed out in last December’s issue of The Atlantic, once the occupying force is gone, the resistance fighters will have nothing to resist against. Again, if one has the least amount of concern for U.S. troops, they should be returned to this country as soon as possible.
August 30th, 2006 at 7:55 pm#191
americans who have served in the military and are now lawyers don’t use spellings like favour and neighbour
Do you think she might be a Brit? With the ever-present cattiness and occasional incoherence, she reminds me of Christopher Hitchens.
August 30th, 2006 at 8:38 pmWith the ever-present cattiness and occasional incoherence, she reminds me of Christopher Hitchens.
does that mean she’s a drunk also?
August 30th, 2006 at 9:05 pmactually, when i called her out on it, her cover story was that she was educated overseas.
although that might work for some, since i happen to have been born in another country (australia), i happen to know the effects of learning, unlearning — and subsequently re-learning, as i now live in australia again — british spelling conventions. you see, although i went to an american university, my work in australia requires that i write using the british conventions. it’s not that hard to adapt. in fact, you’d have to be an idiot if you didn’t adapt. especially if you were an attorney and had taken intensive legal writing courses and were in the habit of writing extensively on an almost daily basis, as lawyers do.
as she also claims to have been in the u.s. military and also to be an american lawyer — in the time SINCE her alleged overseas education — i can only say she’s full of it.
she could be from any of the former commonwealth nations – canada, south africa, formerly rhodesia, new zealand, etc.
but she ain’t AMERICAN!
August 30th, 2006 at 9:17 pmisn’t that right, tripey??
Sorry I logged off so soon. I wasn’t aware that MA had “already smacked” me – must’ve been the clever way she avoided addressing any substantive arguments I made. You know, people who make substantive arguments are just arrogant and insufferable, right MA?
August 30th, 2006 at 9:45 pmWow, Dave von Ebers, you’ve been smacked by the Mighty Haggis. Need a tissue? :)
August 30th, 2006 at 9:50 pmSome of the stuff MA’s come up with lately makes her sound like a throwback to the mid-80s: calling people commies and socialists, and even dredging up liberation theology.
By the way, I thought it was interesting that Exley, MA, and Jason Hendler all chimed in on this one, especially since Rumsfeld and Cheney were officially rolling out the administration’s last ditch effort to try to shift public opinion on Iraq back in their direction.
In case you haven’t heard, the latest theme that the White House is trying out is “We didn’t start this war.” Bush is going to push that one tomorrow. Watch for it.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:16 pmI like the “Mighty Haggis” angle. Perhaps she could call herself “The Mighty Haggis of the Lord” and give all us heathen liberals a Righteous Smacking whenever we get out of line. And, by “get out of line” I mean “think for ourselves.”
August 30th, 2006 at 10:17 pm“We didn’t start this war.” That’s great. Maybe Dear Leader is going to follow Katherine Harris’ lead – you know, how she said that “God chooses our leaders.” So, Dear Leader is trying to say, “We didn’t start this war, God did.”
So, we got that goin’ for us. Which is nice.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:19 pmI have previously dubbed it “Mighty Haggis of the Clan Teabagger.”
It has a nice ring to it.
August 30th, 2006 at 10:32 pmTo Heynow:
August 30th, 2006 at 10:56 pmWe would like to hear more about what the conservative folks in your office are saying these days. We’re out of touch – so help us out. Thanks in advance
Keith Olbermann Delivers One Hell Of a Commentary on Rumsfeld
August 30th, 2006 at 11:01 pmComment by Zooey — August 30, 2006 @ 9:50 pm
Ouch! yer’ givin’ Haggis a bad name! ‘Tis the National Dish of Scotland, Haggis is. And I’d hate to be thinkin’ o’ th’ Mighty Afraudite every time I eat haggis! There’s not enough whiskey in all o’ Scotland to wash down that meal!
For fun: http://www.holistech.co.uk/haggis.php
August 30th, 2006 at 11:22 pmBriseadh na Faire,
Haggis Hurl is fun!
Have you ever actually eaten haggis?
August 31st, 2006 at 12:25 amI’d have to take up drinking scotch just to hear about it. :P
what about the mighty hokey pokey?
you put your right-wing in, you put your right-wing out…
August 31st, 2006 at 12:35 amyou put your right-wing in, and spread deception all about
…the mighty hokey pokey only lies when she’s around, cuz that’s what she’s all about!
“When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it.â€
Dwight D. Eisenhower
August 31st, 2006 at 1:17 amMaybe the speech writer was trying to get fired?
August 31st, 2006 at 2:03 amAugust 31st, 2006 at 2:51 am
Enabling / Patriot Acts
The Enabling Act (Ermächtigungsgesetz in German) was passed by Germany’s parliament (the Reichstag) on March 23, 1933. It was the second major step after the Reichstag Fire Decree through which the Nazis obtained dictatorial powers using largely legal means. The Act enabled Chancellor Adolf Hitler and his cabinet to enact laws without the participation of the Reichstag.
The Nazis devised the Enabling act to gain complete political power without the need of the support of a majority in the Reichstag and without the need to bargain with their coalition partners. The Act essentially allowed the chancellor and his cabinet to enact legislation without the Reichstag, including changes to the constitution. Both the Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Communist Party (KPD) were expected to vote against such an Act, but the Nazis knew that the parties representing the middle class, the Junker landowners and business interests had grown weary of the instability of the Weimar Republic and therefore, were likely to vote for the measure.
Within 24 hours of being appointed chancellor of Germany on January 30, 1933, Hitler withdrew from the coalition of centrist parties and asked President von Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag. A general election was scheduled for March 5, 1933. This campaign was one of the first times the mass media was a major force in an election. Skillfully used to influence the outcome by propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels who wrote:
Now it will be easy to carry on the fight, for we can call on all the resources of the State. Radio and press are at our disposal. We shall stage a masterpiece of propaganda.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act
The Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (Public Law 107-56), commonly known as the USA PATRIOT Act or simply the Patriot Act, is an American law which was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. The Act passed in the Senate by a vote of 98 to 1, and in the House by a vote of 357 to 66. Although the bill enjoyed widespread Congressional and Presidential support, some people consider it a controversial piece of federal legislation.
Originally passed after the September 11, 2001 attacks, the Act (full text) was formed in response to the terrorist attacks against the United States, and dramatically expanded the authority of American law enforcement for the stated purpose of fighting terrorist acts in the United States and abroad. It has also been used to detect and prosecute other alleged potential crimes such as providing false information on terrorism. It was renewed on March 2, 2006 with a vote of 89 to 11 in the Senate and on March 7 280 to 138 in the House. The renewal was signed into law by President Bush on March 9, 2006.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:20 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
Tack on the #224 above:
A U.S. court ruled that key provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act targeting material support of terrorist organizations remain unconstitutionally vague despite recent revisions by Congress. The “material support” statutes, particularly troubling to nonprofit organizations, prohibited U.S. citizens or organizations from providing material support or resources to designated “foreign terrorist organizations,” regardless of the nature or intent of the support.
Have you ever contributed to CARE, UNICEF, or THE RED CROSS? You may be a “terrorist”.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:56 amI appreciate the video clip. however, your readers seem to be hopelessly stupid. Rumsfeld is making a well concieved comparison between the 3o’s and today. However, one would think that we didn’t know how WWII played out. Virtually no one mentions the parralels between fashism and Islamic “nationalism”. The left’s only “point” is that Bush lied. Well, it may well be true that there were damn few weapons of mass destruction still findable in post-war Iraq. jBut then one of the purposes of the was was to ensure that post-war Iraq would not threaten it’s neibors with such weapons: war aim achieved?
August 31st, 2006 at 10:53 amNumerous people continue to criticise Bush on the narrow grounds that Iraq did not attack us on 9/11. this is true, as far as it goes, however, haow many Germans attacked Pearl Harbor. The ansewer is clearly none. However would the Japanese militarist felt capable of attacking the West were the Nazi armies smothering Europe and threatening America with a two front war. No, while japan and Germany were two seperate threats they interacted to embolden each other, much the way that the various current threats work togethe to attack the West.
Rumsfelt is a geat man, unfortunatly much of his audience in unable or unwilling to understand his message for what it is. There is no long term appeasing of aggressors, they only become more aggressive.
I find it very depressing that a hawk like this “koolhandluke” is supposedly advising the Democratic Party. And he’s a party delegate? Words fail me.
Just the fact that he said, “Erroll if you want to withdraw and have another 9-11 happen, just keep pushing for that idea” (to withdraw from Iraq). Better check that party ID card again because the fear-mongering is usually done by the other party.
And why exactly would a withdrawal cause another 9/11? Considering that none of the hijackers came from Iraq?
Scary.
The only thing I agree with him on is that we need an exit strategy. Duh. It’s kind of hard to glue a million little pottery shards back together! It’s even harder when you keep crushing those pieces into smaller and smaller pieces!
Polls show that a huge majority of Iraqis want the U.S. out by the end of the year. Anything other than that and yes we are inviting more trouble. Get it?
BTW – how will we be able to tell “when the job is done” again? A definition of success might be helpful. Defeating all of the “terrorists” ain’t gonna happen and Halliburton’s coffers will never be full enough so we need something else to use as a guide.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:35 pm#226 Fascism is not like Islamic “nationalism”. Fascism has at its core the marriage of the state and corporations. Islamic nationalism is a theocracy. A theocracy is also a very bad thing, though that is the preferred direction most conservatives would have America go.
There were NO WMD found… not even the “damn few” you suggest.
When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, Germany had already been bombing the s$#t out of England (among other aggressive military actions against other nations). Germany was not a “potential threat to world peace” – it had already, by the time of Pearl Harbor, made a great part of the world very unpeaceful. The comparison is unsustainable, NOT “well conceived”. Saddam had been already neutered, and even this administration had said so prior to 9/11.
“The left’s only “point†is that Bush lied.” Then a sentence later you say, “Numerous people continue to criticise Bush on the narrow grounds that Iraq did not attack us on 9/11.” Umm… that’s TWO that you just presented. So YOU just lied. Actually “the left” (which, I presume, to you is ANYONE who does not agree with the administration) has many more points of contention than those TWO (not ONE).
“Well, it may well be true that there were damn few weapons of mass destruction still findable in post-war Iraq. jBut then one of the purposes of the was was to ensure that post-war Iraq would not threaten it’s neibors with such weapons: war aim achieved?” How the hell could he threaten his neighbors if he had no WMD? That is not a threat. But if we have now removed him and ensured there are no WMD, then Saddam is no longer a threat to Iraq’s neighbors, and therefore the job is done (and WHICH neighbors, exactly, ASKED us specifically to invade Iraq and oust Saddam? Or are we the babysitters of everyone? Does ANY other country REALLY think of the US as “Daddy”?). Bush himself repeatedly declared that we were most emphatically NOT going in to do some ‘nation building”. Funny, but that is EXACTLY what is occurring, and against the will of the Iraquis (who on MORE than one occasion have, in the majority, said they want the US out of THEIR country). I noted that the rhetoric of, ‘We will leave when the Iraquis want us out” mutated immediately upon the first survey of the Iraqui people where they said, “We want you out.”
And what are these “various current threats work(ing) togethe(r) to attack the West”? If you say “terrorists”, that is meaningless. “terrorists” have existed since civilization has. They are effective when a nation alters its policy because of the terrorist actions. When people willingly (or against their will) are forced to give up freedoms that they have held dear in the name of “combatting the terrorists” then the terrorists have won. Terrorists don’t want land – they want to alter how others act: it is a feeble attempt to control others actions, and only the weak fall for it. This administration is weak because they allow the terrorists to win, because it suits their own personal agendas. The terrorists are a convenient excuse to alter the nation to favor them. They could not do it by legitimate means, so they exploited an enemy that was, at the beginning, small and generally (but not always) ineffectual. Hmmm… who else exploited an ‘enemy’ in order to alter the laws and structure of a nation along personal and partisan political agendas?
August 31st, 2006 at 12:53 pmThe left’s only “point†is that Bush lied.
Comment by Rundownfid — August 31, 2006 @ 10:53 am
If you think thats our only point then you are apparently too stupid to read.
We have stated our point(S) endlessly, ad nauseum, in ever publication out there.
Bush lied about the war is of course a cornerstone point, as we as a nation, cannot move beyond that since so many have been slaughtered due to that lie.
But that is merely one point in a sea of corruption, lies deceit and illegal actions taken by this administration, and only a complete rube would state that “Bush lied is our only point”.
Of course, perhaps someone incapable of competently debating might wish to claim that is our only point, so as to narrow the debate. Fortunately no one heres as stupid as that person would have to be to assume such a position.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:50 pmRumsfelt is a geat man,
Comment by Rundownfid — August 31, 2006 @ 10:53 am
You know it.
He’s a great liar.
He’s a great scoundrel.
He’s a great coward.
He’s a great fool.
He’s great.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:51 pmAnd he was right about the comparing Facisim to movements of today. He just labled the wrong side Facistis, thats all.
Can’t blame a great idiot like him for making a little mistake like that.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:53 pmDumsfeld’s speech was insulting, and we need to call him on the lies, spin and poisonous rhetoric designed to demonize and silence people who hold opposing views, that speech was worthy of Hitler, however there were several things he said that I agree with such as:
August 31st, 2006 at 2:58 pmLike these for example
Dumsfeld said “Your watchdog role is particularly important today in a war that is to a great extent fought in the media on a global stage, a role to not allow the distortions and myths be repeated without challenge”
Dumsfeld said “The good news is that most Americans, though understandably influenced by what they see and read, have good inner gyroscopes. They have good center of gravity. So, I’m confident that over time they will evaluate and reflect on what is happening in this struggle and come to wise conclusions about it.”
We can not allow the distortions of the Neo Cons designed to deceive the masses to be repeated without challenge, and we canot allow these evil megalomaniacs to control the media and use it as a propaganda tool to deceive the masses and sway public opinion.
rummy also said that the majority of the American people are good people who can not be deceived for long and will eventually evaluate the facts as opposed to the spin and realize what is really going on in this country and which of our leaders are not to be trusted.
August 31st, 2006 at 2:59 pmI also agree with this portion of Rummys speech:
Dumsfeld said “Rumsfeld added, “any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.â€
We need to make sure there is no moral opr intellectual confusion, the Neo Cons are an evil pack of lying sceming megalomaniacs and they are wrong and allowing them to deceive the masses and implement their evil self serving agendas will most definately weaken democracy and the ability of FREE societies to persevere………..so actually I agree with Dumsfeld on something even though in reality he is a lying spinmeister and we agree on very little.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:00 pmI take it this is your new home Worf?
BTW did you hear about the Utah protests, its a really great read.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:01 pmrundownsfil:
one of the purposes of the was was to ensure that post-war Iraq would not threaten it’s neibors with such weapons: war aim achieved?
well, aside from “rumsfeld’s prosecution” above — considering BOTH colin powell and condi rice said that saddam was not a threat in 2001… i’d say your “war aim achieved” moment happened before we even invaded:
“He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.” – Colin Powell Feb 24, 2001
“But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let’s remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt. This has been a successful period…” – Condoleezza Rice July 29, 2001
dude, you’ve been lied to. sorry you’re just learning that now.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:40 pmKeith Olberman, one of the last Liberals left in the world with any real BALLS, gave Rummy his due last night.
His closing remarks, directed to Mr Rumsfeld was an example of the best journalistic commentary of the highest caliber. He minced no words, held back nothing, and gave the foul Rumsfeld both barrells, right in the kisser.
Keith Olberman is hero as far as I am concerned, and a better, braver man than Rumsfeld will ever be.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:42 pmand besides that, if (or when) iraq descends into full scale civil war — if it hasn’t already — you better believe ALL of its neighbors will deem it a threat. except maybe iran, who would benefit greatly, and already has as a result of this foreign policy misadventure.
the fear would be a regional sectarian war. this is how america “helps” people under the bush regime.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:44 pmCome of Wortfues – Keith Olberman???? I would think Noam Chomsky or Ramsey Clark would the guys YOU could respect and admire. Ramsey is a guy who gets down in the trenches defending the maligned Saddam —- and (***NEWSFLASH***) has the timerity to continue wearing the same crappy looking corduroy jacket with faux suede arm patches. Can you imagine how much much better of the socialist world would be if Ramsey were AG (again!) rather than Alberto???? Olberman is a putz…..
August 31st, 2006 at 7:46 pmOh, thank God! MA showed up just in time to smack us liberals down!
August 31st, 2006 at 10:18 pmCome of Wortfues – Keith Olberman????
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2006 @ 7:46 pm
Notice people, how the ones that scare them the most are the ones they jump to dismiss the quickest.
Thats right sister.
Keith Olberman.
A Golldern 100 percent grade a can kick Bill O’lielly’s ass any day all American UDSA hero.
The guy who’s laughing at your master race.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:33 amThe guy Bill O’reilly’s terrified of.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:34 amWere the discipline of this Movement not so firm, those who today complain of the sacrifices demanded of them would have even more of which to complain.
For what we fighters have gained does not compare to the amount of persecution we suffered.
Let the bellyachers realize that, wherever they are.
Adolf Hitler
September 1st, 2006 at 3:48 amApril 8, 1933
[...] Sec. Rumsfeld last week compared Iraq war critics to Hitler appeasers. This morning on Fox News, Sen. Elizabeth Dole (R-NC) was asked to name someone — anyone — who actually believes “the terrorists can be appeased.” She couldn’t do it. [...]
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:54 pmI’m a critic of the war and I do know a little history. Rumsfeld brought up Hitler, so lets take a look at how Hitler came to power. The Nazi party was elected to a majority of the parliment in 1932 and Hitler became chancellor of Germany in January of 1933. Shortly into his term there was an attack on the State in which the Reichstag (the Parliment building) was burned to the ground. Hitler used that attack to stir up sentiment against his political rivals. The day after the fire he announced the “Reichstag Fire Decree”, which curtailed basic civil liberties and rights such as habeas corpus. He quickly arranged for the parliment to give up some of its constitutional duties and transferred power to himself in what is called the “Enbabling Act”.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:03 pmSound familiar?
[...] On Tuesday August 29, 2006, Donald Rumsfeld accused war critics of being bewildered saying, “any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.†(VIDEO: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/30/rumsfeld-war-critics-2/) [...]
September 9th, 2006 at 7:20 pm[...] NBC released a poll tonight showing that the majority of Americans object to recent White House attacks comparing Iraq war critics to Hitler appeasers. Asked about the recent “appeaser” language, NBC’s Tim Russert said the poll showed this rhetoric “did not resonate with the American people.” Watch it: var flvpoll320240 = new SWFObject(’/wp-content/plugins/flvplayer.swf?file=http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/flv/2006/09/poll.320.240.flv&autoStart=false’, ‘em-flvpoll320240′, ‘320′, ‘260′, ‘6′, ‘#ffffff’); flvpoll320240.addParam(’quality’, ‘high’); flvpoll320240.addParam(’wmode’, ‘transparent’); flvpoll320240.write(’flvpoll320240′); [...]
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