Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’
Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’
Pat Buchanan has been a constant presence on cable TV since the release of his book, State of Emergency. Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white.
Buchanan told Alan Colmes: “What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.” Watch it:
In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.
Transcript:
COLMES: Would you prefer only white immigrants?
BUCHANAN: No. What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.
We didn’t vote to change it. In 1965, in the Immigration Act, Teddy Kennedy said we’re going to maintain immigration at about present levels and numbers, and we will not consciously alter the character…
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: All right, but are you saying we should work to keep an 89 percent white country? Is that what you believe we should do?
BUCHANAN: No, no. What I believe is that people should not deliberately alter the character and composition of the country without consulting the American people. If you adopt two children, Alan, you’re going to go in and you’re going to decide who comes. Who should decide who comes and who doesn’t? First, illegals should not come. Secondarily, the American people should be consulted how many immigrants come, what are the criteria. And we haven’t been consulted.
COLMES: But it sounds like what you’re saying, though, that we should keep the status as it was back then, with the certain percentages of different ethnic groups, meaning 89 percent white, not changing that to any great extent. Is that pretty much what you’re saying?
BUCHANAN: That is what — 1964, John F. Kennedy’s book was reprinted. You know what he said? He said we should change — no higher immigration, and what we should do is — the quotas given to Germans, and Irish, and English, and others that are not used should be given to folks from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe. That’s what Kennedy said. I would go along with that. I supported that in a book.
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Buchanan is a #&^$%^@ racist, and a card-carrying member of the KKK.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:15 pmHerr Buchanan is proving that the more one talks the stupider one gets.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:16 pmUnadulterated, unashamed, pure racism.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:19 pmBuchanan sez:
Perhaps we should have paid the American Indians the same courtesy. As I recall, we didn’t.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:19 pmwhat hes doing is giving the right wing something to moan to each other about
August 31st, 2006 at 5:22 pm#1
yep he is,and has been real close with his buddy David Duke.
from http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/7874/
“Duke — a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan who has emerged as a big vote-getter in Louisiana — sent out a letter endorsing Buchanan. Weeks later, the press corps seemed to yawn when Sen. Phil Gramm complained that the Duke support was “a big factor” in Buchanan’s Louisiana win.
Links between Buchanan and Duke have involved the sincerest form of flattery. Several years ago, Buchanan said he felt tempted to “sue that dude for intellectual property theft.”
When the ex-Klansman was elected to the Louisiana legislature as a Republican in 1989, Buchanan argued that the national party had “overreacted” with excessive opposition to Duke’s candidacy.”
August 31st, 2006 at 5:25 pmThe reason Pat Buchanan had constant cable TV is because these so-called “Cable News†Channels are pro-racist. Pro-status quo, pro-money, and pro-white power. Further clarification?: grow more brain cells.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:26 pmRacist bastard!
Someone needs to take him out and teach him a few manners.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:27 pmIts getting boring.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:27 pmPat seems to be stuck in the 60s – the 1860s, that is. Unfortunately, so are a whole lot of other people, most of them the Bush/Cheney base..
August 31st, 2006 at 5:32 pmPat should have come to visit all of America he would have seen me and I’m an African American who is proud of my country so proud that my daughter is serving our military as did my son and father and husband. I guess those KKK supporters are being let out as King George spreads his racism. Don’t worry folks after Nov. this would be over and the rats will go back in the hole in wish they came from. Maybe Rummy and Pat could share a room at the nursing home.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:33 pmDoes anyone now doubt that Buchanan is a fascist – racist pig. i am ashamed that he and I are of the same tribe, Irish – Catholic.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:35 pmBuchanan belongs in this CCC ( modern day version of KKK ) picture perhaps right next to Sen George ‘Macaca’ Allen
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/8/31/133135/183
August 31st, 2006 at 5:39 pmKeep talking, Pat. In case anyone is left that didn’t know you are a KKK member, and racist of the worst kind, they will now. He’s a perfect specimen of the republican party.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:39 pmHeads Up! You want to talk to Mr. Buchanan himself and make him defend his odious actions? He is going to be on Coast to coast with George Nori tonight. you can look up where this is on your AM dial at the Coast to Coast website. Google it. You can find the numbers to call there as well.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:41 pm#6 Wayne; thanx for the link. Good article.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:43 pmHey, you’re all familiar with that operation Michael Jackson underwent to change his skin from black to white? Well, if there are procedures where pigmentation of human skin can be changed from black to white, then there must be one where skin can be converted from white to black using a similar procedure. So here’s the idea: lets kidnap Buchanan and give him a reverse-Michael Jackson operation….turn Buchanan into a black man! That way, every time he looks in the mirror he’ll see what he fears most: a minority. That’ll teach that racist bigot! We can so totally pull this off!
August 31st, 2006 at 5:47 pmjust another racist republican
August 31st, 2006 at 5:48 pmI was travelling through (hitch hiking) the southern states in the late sixties and I found the Blacks (I hate using that terminology because I don’t see colour or anything else but the person) much more friendlier and more understanding than anyone else. Being a Canadian I was readily accepted except by the whites because I associated with the Blacks.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:52 pmI don’t see colour, I don’t see religion, I don’t see nationality and I don’t see race.
All I see is the person and I will accept them or not by their attitude, personality or predjudism, nothing else.
I have a problem about putting people in nitches reguarding their race, religion, colour, age, height, amount of hair on their head, their education level, where they work, what they do, what they look like, what they weigh and everything else that discriminates anyone.
Pat would probably like to exterminate Blacks, Hispanics,Asians, Jews, Muslims, and Liberals. With those groups gone America would be a perfect place. Rush, Sean,Coulter, Beck and Malkin feel the same way. Only when Michelle is being led to the gallows will she realize that spewing her hate couldn’t save here from her white, christian, Consertvative “friends” .
August 31st, 2006 at 5:52 pmseems an odd tally for mr. B. let’s see, how old would he have to be to have lived in this country when the percentages are like what he said, or even reasonably close to the totals of whiteness?
around the civil war perhaps? he is well preserved.
remember, buchanan isn’t one of the crazies out there. he is at least rational. he is mean spirited at times, no doubt. but not crazy. he is a professional speech writer by trade. now that truth is no longer important, he still seemed unlikely to make statements this ridiculous.
I wonder what happened to his mind?
August 31st, 2006 at 5:54 pmI fully support LEGAL immigration. I also fully support getting rid of every single illegal immigrant in this country regardless of the cost. We are not a nation if we can’t protect our borders.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:55 pmPaleocon pig.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:58 pmPatty is just reflecting the good old boy rhetoric. See the forties, fifties were idyllic times. No racial strife, no reported mass crimes, rules for everything. The Ozzie and Harriet, Leave It to Beaver lie. This “good old days” lie ignores second class citizenry of women, persecution of blacks, and as far as the “more order, less crime” lie – crimes went under-reported, it’s not that Americans today are more criminal. Patty wants “Father Knows Best” and unfortunately those days never really existed and Pat’s Alzhiemers has gotten the better of him.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:59 pmWell for anyone to say such a thing as “PC” exists anymore, here’s your proof it doesn’t!
Just goes to show how far right Bush/Cheney and the radical republicans have taken this country since 9/11.
It amazes me that Buchanan has the nerve to make such unpatriotic and un-American claims.
Well, if there’s one good thing about how radical washintgon has become it’s this: at least the racists are coming out of the caves they hide in so we can remember them when payback time comes!
It begins in November, and it ends with the utter destruction of the GOP house of cards.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:00 pmI fully support LEGAL immigration. I also fully support getting rid of every single illegal immigrant in this country regardless of the cost. We are not a nation if we can’t protect our borders.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Good, since I am native american, I think you should start with yourself Roger. And buy a ticket for Pat Buchanan to Ireland as well. You were all illegal imigrants to begin with. hehe
Man I hate racist idiots.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:03 pmI wish I was in Dixie, hooray, hooray!
Them good old days are a-comin’ back! Get out the rope and yer white sheets, boys!
(for the satire-impaired, this was an example of satire)
August 31st, 2006 at 6:04 pmWhat!
August 31st, 2006 at 6:09 pmThere is no effort any more to disguise one’s racism and bigotry – there is no shame in harboring those thoughts; they feel emboldened to say the truth and defy anyone to criticize them. They have all the power.
As I said earlier today – we have taken giant steps backward.
Buchanan – wonder where his white hood is stored.
That’s right, Pat, we’re going to set the Way-back Machine, and magically transform the country back to 1950. Yep, any second now.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:09 pm#9 Juan I couldnt agree more. What’s the point? I feel like our democratic party has a nail through it’s right foot and is running in circles stuck on the corruption from the right. It’s no better poo-slinging than 1999. So it cuts both ways. If someone actually started talking about SOLUTIONS I think I would pee in my pants. Please SOMEONE talk about SOLUTIONS. This garbage is immaterial. If I dont start seeing talk about solutions I am going to start believing Kos, TP, and DU are just a bunch of plants. Please dont have me even entertain that thought. SOLUTIONS!!!! What’s the word?…uh Progress???
August 31st, 2006 at 6:10 pmTo Oldtree (21)
What has happen to Buchanan’s mind? You are joshing me! Nothing happen—that’s the real Buchanan you hearing! I’d kept taps on this goon for over 30 years. What cave have you been lost in? And as for him being crazy? He’s not: he’s a professional. In other words, a paid racist and hate monger. The daring of the status quo. Please, try to keep this in mind.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:11 pmI fully support LEGAL immigration. I also fully support getting rid of every single illegal immigrant in this country regardless of the cost. We are not a nation if we can’t protect our borders.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Roger Roger – you can’t get rid of every illegal. There are between 10-20 million illegal aliens in the US. The cost of catching, imprisioning, ajudicating, and transporting 20 million people is in the hundreds of billions. The US doesn’t have the money.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:13 pmTo Bones (32)
Yes, bones, the U.S. does have that much money to waste: Have you heard Iraq? And soon Iran?
August 31st, 2006 at 6:18 pmAlzenheimers seems to have caught him young in life.
What a moron.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:20 pmThe America I grew up with, 89 – 90 % of people had manners. I miss that America…
August 31st, 2006 at 6:21 pmThe America I grew up with, 89 – 90 % of people had manners. I miss that America…Comment by unbelievable — August 31, 2006 @ 6:21 pm
When was that?
August 31st, 2006 at 6:24 pmLike pretty much everything Pat says, I’m sure it sounds better in the original German.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:24 pmYou all might be happy to know that the youngest generation in whitebread Georgia is significantly less racist than their parents. I don’t have black-white issues in my classes. Pat is a dying breed.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:24 pmWhen was that?
Comment by bones — August 31, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
Seventies. Must’ve been all the drugs and free loving :)
August 31st, 2006 at 6:25 pmHe wants it to be “just like it was when he was growing up.” Doesn’t everyone? But wait a minute… no one consulted the natives of the American continent about immigration from Europe!!!
August 31st, 2006 at 6:28 pmthe America I grew up in, 89-90% of people didn’t have to pay 50% of their income simply to have a roof over their heads.
89-90% lived above the poverty level.
89-90% had a better standard of living than their parents’ generation.
The list goes on and on.
Pat Buchanan is vile. Period.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:32 pmThis guy is simply blowing my mind. A couple of days ago I wrote that Buchanan is trying to sink the neoconservatives that he believes are wrecking our foriegn policy by putting an ugly racist face on the conservative movement in general.. this just seems to be more proof of that.
In other words, this level of racist garbage is so out of context in modern times, that I have to make up conspiracy theories in order to justify Buchanan’s words. I feel totally bat shit crazy writing about this little theory of mine, but it’s the only thing that makes any sense given that this kind of racism has been rejected by America for years.
But if I’m wrong, I guess we can chalk up another horrifying nu-institution for the right wing of this country. First ‘torture’, then ‘wiretapping and spying’, and now we have ‘racism’. Give this kind of bullshit another couple of years and conservatives won’t be able to imagine a coherant society without these nu-institutions.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:34 pmTimes change the world revoles. Maybe someday whites Will be the minority in America, so?
August 31st, 2006 at 6:34 pmThis is the fundamental problem with conservative thinking, “I don’t want things to change.”
They are afraid of change. The very thought of traveling down a street where the faces looking back at them aren’t the same color as theirs is terriffying. The thought that another person may have a different idea about god gives them chills. They live in fear and want everyone to be afraid. I refuse.
This is the fundamental problem with conservative thinking, “I don’t want things to change.â€
Comment by ckerst — August 31, 2006 @ 6:34 pm
You mean ‘evolve’? :)
August 31st, 2006 at 6:37 pmI fully support LEGAL immigration.
Comment by Roger_Roger — August 31, 2006 @ 5:55 pm
I think we all do. But Buchanan’s problem is not legal immigration, but the type of legal migrants he wants to screen for.
It is very interesting to me he doesn’t even mention educational background, only ethnicity -as if skin color made a person and not their accomplishments. Presumably Buchanan rather see poor, uneducated white Europeans migrating to the US rather than well educated, oh say, Philippinos.
I also fully support getting rid of every single illegal immigrant in this country regardless of the cost.
It would be nice if the people in charge actually started enforcing the law instead of ignoring it. The problem has grown so large and unmanageable because illegal immigration benefits employers who get the same work done for a lot less money, no benefits or insurance, and a compliant worforce. And we all know how money talks. Ask Duke Cunningham.
We are not a nation if we can’t protect our borders.
So maybe now you can begin to understand how Iraqis feel about gun-carrying foreigners in their country.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:38 pmRacism in this country was the work of Southern Plantation owners who feared the Irish Immigrants (indentured servants) would form a coalition with the African slaves and revolt against them. So, they instead treated the Irish better to generate a conflict between the two groups of people, and attributed it to skin color. Then, instead of noticing the fat greedy and immoral pigs for whom they were toiling, the Irish and the Africans got caught up in the wrong issue… skin color. And while they fought against one another, the Plantation owners mistreated them both.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:42 pmThis racism has nothing to do with being afraid. This is simply how conservative beliefs work: you need certain boundries, rules, and seperations in order for society to remain sane. These boundries are ‘institutions.’ Marriage is an institution, and conservatives firmy believe that if gays are allowed to marry, the institution of marriage will crumble as it loses its meaning, and so will society, since so much of our culture is based on that institution.
And as I’ve already stated, torture and spying are becoming conservative institutions. They feel that if muslim middle easterners aren’t being tortured for information, then the terrorists will be at our door. Same for warrentless wiretapping– if unlimited spying isn’t allowed, it will be the death of all of us at a strange unknown enemy. And now we have racism showing its face again— and if this idea is allowed to spead, white supremicist groups will begin to believe that American society cannot function unless whites are dominating it. Just read Buchanan’s words– this idea is spread thick throughout every word of his that ends up in public. It’s becoming another institutionalized belief about how American society works
August 31st, 2006 at 6:43 pmSo maybe now you can begin to understand how Iraqis feel about gun-carrying foreigners in their country.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — August 31, 2006 @ 6:38 pm
You kicked butt with that one.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:45 pmSo maybe now you can begin to understand how Iraqis feel about gun-carrying foreigners in their country.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — August 31, 2006 @ 6:38 pm
Bears repeating! Well said.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:45 pmBut his brand of lunacy shouldn’t let us miss Hannity’s own madness on his radio show. In case anyone missed it, go here. Essentially he called for suicide bombers to get rid of members of our government. Any Muslim cleric speaking those words in the street would be enjoying the weather in Cuba within hours.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:45 pmThe only time I can think of when when the country was 90% white was when African Americans and Natives weren’t considered people, but subhuman or property. . .
Buchanan seems to be trying to relive his golden memories of the dixiecrat strategy – very, very sad. . . .
August 31st, 2006 at 6:48 pmhe should move to australia, then. it’s more than 90% white here. and i’ll bet he’d LOVE the immigration policies of the current government.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:48 pmLooks like Canada doesn’t want American immigrants coming into their country:
Canada to arm border guards along U.S. border
TORONTO, Canada (AP) — Canada will arm its border guards starting in 2007, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday.
Canada has unarmed guards along its 4,000-mile (6,435-kilometer) border with the United States, but Canada’s will now be armed, as their U.S. counterparts are.
The government plans to arm and train its 4,500 border agents over the next 10 years. Harper said some will be armed starting in September 2007 and about 150 will receive guns by the end of March 2008.
The Canadian side of the U.S.-Canada border is monitored by the Canada Border Services Agency. They have been demanding guns to help them deal with cross-border criminal activity.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/08/31/canada.border.ap/index.html
August 31st, 2006 at 6:49 pmAmerica has never been 89-90% white – just the portion that was allowed to vote. If I recall back when Pat was a kid Greeks and Italians weren’t considered white.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:51 pmThe South is appropriately named the Bible Belt. Point to Judaism in that equation…
Read Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States.” It gives you the side of our history that not only makes sense, but explains a lot in the process…
August 31st, 2006 at 6:52 pmTwo beautiful conservative cliches in one go!
1. The old days were better
2. Our country used to be full of white people, and there were almost no people of any other race/culture
August 31st, 2006 at 6:52 pmand i’ll bet he’d LOVE the immigration policies of the current government.
Comment by progressaurus rex — August 31, 2006 @ 6:48 pm
How are those, aussie buddy? Hows the relation with the natives in the land down under?
August 31st, 2006 at 6:53 pmPat, meet your friend, Bill the Butcher.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:54 pmRacism is still alive and well in America unfortunately.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:55 pmI’m guessing the immigration policies aren’t that hot there in Australia?
Am I right? ;)
Oh well, there goes the escape route to Australia. Oh, and Canada, too. (thanks for the grim news, Unbelievable!)
How about New Zealand???
August 31st, 2006 at 6:56 pmHow about New Zealand???
Comment by trueblue — August 31, 2006 @ 6:56 pm
I’d guess that you should go before the global population gets much bigger and as a result, more rich white people like Buchanan flee to those places and make them unaffordable (and unenjoyable) for anyone else…
August 31st, 2006 at 6:59 pmOk, as a Brit I’d like to ask the following question:
We have our own ‘immigration debate’. It is dominated almost exclusively by tabloid claims about ‘immigrants stealing our jobs’ and so on. Either way, immigrants are not the most popular people in Britain at the moment.
But what puzzles me is that while our tabloids seem to frame this debate in terms of national groupings, the American press frames it in broader terms, in terms of colours, almost. I’m not saying one is better than the other- they are equally loathsome. The question is: why? We have armies of invading Poles, or alternatively we will be swamped by Romanians, whereas you have blacks and hispanics.
Of course, I’m not suggesting that the British press never use broad racial terms, or that the American press never use national categories. But why is there this division? Is it anything to do with America’s history of multiculturalism [provided you're not Indian]?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:00 pmHey, at least he’s being honest, right? I mean, he’s a real dick… but an honest one!
August 31st, 2006 at 7:01 pmI hope Pat needs a heart transplant soon and the donor is black.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:02 pmWhat I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks
Wait a minute. He liked where he lived and it was a 50-50 split…
Just like the neocons to contradict themselves in the same freaking sentance… And why not, the Bible does it in the first two pages of Genesis…
August 31st, 2006 at 7:03 pmHi Unbelievable!
How’s the new job?
As if I could afford NZ!
I can’t afford much of anything right now, as a matter of fact!
I’m one of Bush’s “unwashed”
August 31st, 2006 at 7:04 pmHe’s right about one thing. We The People have “no representation”. If people wake up, or if there is a great awakening of “The People” to protect “their rights as citizens”, it’s possible we could survive as a nation.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:06 pmBut why is there this division? Is it anything to do with America’s history of multiculturalism [provided you’re not Indian]?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 31, 2006 @ 7:00 pm
Have you ever seen “Bowling for Columbine’ by Micheal Moore? He addresses this issue. Here we fear black people because they’ve been stereotyped as the boogeymen who will steal your car, break into your house, kidnap your child and rape your wife. It’s been going on since the Plantation Owners in the South created the conflict based on skin color, and has been an effective stereotype on the weak-minded and ignorant ever since.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:06 pm74,
Is there any relationship between the right wing conservative obsession with irrational random violence, deranged patriarchs and god, and the old testament obsession with exactly the same?
Without wishing to generalise too much, perhaps there are certain underlying character traits that emerge under certain material circumstances?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:08 pmHI trueblue,
Mostly going well. How about you? How’s school?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:08 pmAs a moderate conservative, I categorically reject Pat Buchanan’s views and philosphy. He is a disgrace to the conservative cause and a disgrace to his fellow American citizens.
The conservative Brethren I talk to pretty much everyday from a good cross section of everyday folks, find Buchanan, Coulter and that ilk repulsive and wish they would fade from the scene.
I’m not naive enough to think other conservatives don’t buy into their invective tone..but I and the people with whom I associate repudiate that tone.
richb
August 31st, 2006 at 7:09 pm#81 – That’s really quite progressive and some might say liberal of you :-)
August 31st, 2006 at 7:11 pmWithout wishing to generalise too much, perhaps there are certain underlying character traits that emerge under certain material circumstances?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 31, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
I read this amazing book titled “Natural Atheism” by Dr. David Eller, a Cultural Anthropologist. He basically explained that because our brains have evolved to such large capacity, we are born prior to its final development. As a result, we have 5-6 year period after our birth where our brain is developing in conjunction with our cultural indocrination. Basically this means that the culture you are exposed to early in life sets your view of the world until and unless YOU decide to question it and change it – which he says is extremely difficult.
I am having my students view different styles of architecture from different parts of the world. Very frequently one or two will say “That’s crazy!” They are generally wearing a “jesus loves me” t-shirt…
August 31st, 2006 at 7:13 pmHey, let him spout his self-indulgent nonsense–it’ll help solidify a Democratic majority. Let’s send him down to campaign for George Allen in Virginia. Bring it on, Pat!
August 31st, 2006 at 7:15 pmWhat if Buchanan had said this:
“Because Europeans share a common history on key determinants of our national culture, such as Judeo-Christian religious thought and values, the Enlightenment, democracy, limited, secular governent and the primacy of individual freedom, and because history has demonstrated the unfortunate tendency of people from different ethnic backgrounds to band together and create a type of Balkan, tribalist conflict such as we see played out most overtly by black, Hispanic and Asian (as well as white) gangs on our streets and in our schools and prisons, but which simmers below the surface in all areas of our society and in European societies with large numbers of immigrants, if we are going to continue to have large-scale immigration, I think the American national interest in maintaining a cohesive society is best served by giving priority to immigrants from European countries, who, to put it bluntly, will generally tend to look and think like the majority of the people who are already here, which will in turn minimize the risk of significant social conflict in the future. This isn’t racism, just common sense.”
I am politically a far-left progressive, but I also have children who deal daily with Hispanic gangs in their junior high school, and would have a hard time disagreeing with the above statement. I would be interested in specific refutations of it, rather than name-calling, or conclusions in place of reasons.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:15 pm78,
I haven’t seen Bowling for Columbine- I read Stupid White Men, but thought the standard of journalism fairly poor. But I agree with your fundamental point: that conservative Americans tend to view the world according to colours rather than nationalities. I mean, African Americans are all African Americans, right? At least according to that rather simplistic view! But is there much distinction between either Europeans or Hispanics of different ethnic origins in the American press? Sure, there is St Patrick’s day and so on, but does that translate to any sort of deeper difference?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:15 pmIt isn’t that difficult to access the Bureau of the Census data. Looking up the 16th Federal Census (1940) which accounts for information provided in 1939-1940 (Pat was born in Washington DC in 1938), one finds that DC, Maryland, and Virginia had extraordinarily high numbers of negro citizens (they counted negros and mulattos as negros, and all other races were lumped together); Maryland shows 17% and Virginia at 24%, whilst DC came in at a whopping 54%. Maybe he really did mean that he liked growing up in a 50/50 society, since that is essentially what he did.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:18 pm81,
Thank you, richb. I don’t think anyone has (too much) of a problem with conservatives in general. It’s when they tend towards hyperbole rather than serious debate, and when they try and defend the likes of ‘mad dog’ Coulter. Can’t every person of every political stripe (excluding a few neo-Nazis) acknowledge that Ann Coulter is a useless cretin and agree to ignore her?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:18 pmdesk jockey,
that percentage is very wrong. most jews at that time were merchants, not plantation owners (who were old, established anglo families, for the most part). in other countries like suriname, jews were known to be plantation owners to a larger degree, but still did not comprise the majority of them.
perhaps the largest group of slave-trading jews in america were to be found in rhode island, which in the 18th century was known as the “capital of North American slave trade” — but even there, jews comprised less than 5% of the slave traders, according to what records are available.
anti-semitism, which has been evidenced since at least the 2nd century bce, plays no small role in this. america was a safer place to be for jews than europe (many jewish immigrants were fleeing oppression in germany, starting in the 1820s), but it didn’t mean they were always accepted.
also, given the volatile nature of the subject, i would suspect it would be hard to find any good statistics. but given the entire population of jews in america was about 150,000 at that time (less than .5% of the population of the country), i’d have to say that figure is wildly off the mark.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:22 pmBut is there much distinction between either Europeans or Hispanics of different ethnic origins in the American press? Sure, there is St Patrick’s day and so on, but does that translate to any sort of deeper difference?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 31, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
Agreed that Michael Moore will never be nominated as anyone’s Poet Laureate, and we know this about him. What’s so great about Michael is his ability to point to the truth with facts. He’s brilliant when it comes to staing the obvious (as we know, commen sense ain’t so common).
It really is a skin color issue here. Blacks with the darkest skin are most feared by the white Supremicists (much like Hitler with his Aryan – blue-eyed blonde mentality), and it descends down until you are a fair-skinned, blue-eyed, blonde. I would say it partly has to do with religion – that dark skinned people from pagan origin are the hallmark of the stereotype. But for themost part, it’s just become standard operating procedure to judge by skin color.
As far as distinctions among Europeans – well, again, skin color is a factor. Therefore good would be Scandinavia, British, Irish, German, and Swiss. As you move south in Europe and the skin gets darker, you get less favorable feelings about French, Spanish, Italian and Greeks. It’s a minor scale in comparision to their hated for blacks and Mexicans though.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:25 pmProvocatour it’s french! Learn how to spell it!
Comment by unbelieveble — August 31, 2006 @ 7:24 pm
I did not write this!
Santo,
The last person who impersonated me got banned for this. I know you are already banned, but don’t be a bigger jerk than you already are.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:28 pmSo immigrants are OK as long as they are white? Absolutely racist!
August 31st, 2006 at 7:28 pm84,
Perhaps the ‘Jesus loves me’ t-shirt is not a coincidence…
I think we can say that, generally speaking, each person views the world through the prism of their cultural background. I don’t think that is a revolutionary idea- it has been around a few thousand years at least. Saying that, though, I do come from a secular/humanist environment! I was christened, but I suspect that was for the sake of social respectibility. Religion was always such a small part of my life I never considered getting confirmed, and it surprised me when a few of my friends did.
And besides, didn’t someone say ‘it is not our consciousness that determines our material conditions, but our material conditions that determine our consciousness’? Seems to me to be the exact truth. Although what Marx means in that statement by consciousness I’m not entirely sure…
I don’t know where in America you live, but the cultural indoctrination must be pretty intense. I read somewhere or other that 75% of Harvard students think it unnecessary to learn a foreign language. The thinking, it seems is ‘if everyone speaks English, why would I need anything else’, which perhaps illustrates the closedmindedness more than anything else.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:29 pm94. It might be a good idea when correcting someone’s spelling if you spell it correctly yourself, or else you look a little foolish. The word is “provocateur”
August 31st, 2006 at 7:33 pmAh, these “moderate conservatives, 81,? Your either “with us ‘citizens’, or with them ‘asshole publicans’ “. No other choice, read the ballot.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:35 pmI would be interested in specific refutations of it, rather than name-calling, or conclusions in place of reasons.
Comment by Tom S. — August 31, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
I don’t want to be long-winded, so let me start by saying that conflating race with culture is ridiculous.
Hispanic gangs, or any other gangs for that matter, have a socio-economic component. As new comers, many find themselves at the bottom of the earning scale. Do I need to remind you how some European immigrants also formed gangs? Have you ever heard of the cossa nostra, or the Russian mafia? So your point that Hispanics are undesirable because they form gangs is bunk.
Also, Hispanics live in countries that are culturally European -as former Spanish colonies. They are primarily Catholic, and their countries are secular. Many Hispanics are also of European ancestry, and most are of mixed ancestry. Unless, that is, you don’t consider Spain an European country. So your second point about only allowing people who are “heirs” of the European cultural heritage is also bunk.
As for people of Asian descent, whose ancestors came from countries that are not Christian, Caucasian, or culturally European -as I said before, culture and race are two very different things. You do not inherit your culture from your parents, you learn it. Eventually, second, third generation American-born Asians do assimilate. Insisting otherwise is nonsense. And bunk.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:36 pmummm,
immigration in australia…
well thankfully, members of the pm’s party crossed the aisle recently to oppose the newest immigration “reforms” — which would have turned back or detained asylum seekers and political dissidents. we already have our own internment camps here, where entire families of asylum seekers are held without charges for no other crime than seeking a better life — for years. this includes children of all ages.
it pisses me off to think about it.
new zealand is a bit easier, and the gov’t there is absolutely more progressive than australia’s is (right now). nz really isn’t that expensive, either (have been there twice this year as i travel there for work sometimes).
basically, though, if you had enough money, or were in a profession that is needed here or in nz (nurses, mining, specialized doctors), you could get in. also, being a permanent resident of either country allows you to live and work in the other.
there’s always the marriage route also…
heh. sorry, ladies, i’m already taken.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:37 pmIf Fatass moved to Alaska, not only would he prefer the ethnic makeup, as long as he could handle seeing the occasional Inuit, but with his Polar Bear-like blubber he would be comfortable year-round. No?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:38 pmyes, sandy, but unbelievABLE didn’t write that comment.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:41 pmshe’s got a childish stalker troll, who should be banned immediately.
Perhaps the ‘Jesus loves me’ t-shirt is not a coincidence…
Definitely agreed.
I think we can say that, generally speaking, each person views the world through the prism of their cultural background. I don’t think that is a revolutionary idea- it has been around a few thousand years at least.
Maybe not in your part of the world, but here, it is quite revolutionary to know that there are many ways to think or feel and none of them are any more valid than any other. Here, many people think we are right and everyone else just is waiting to be converted. Because ‘god’ is on our side. Pretty arrogant, huh?
Saying that, though, I do come from a secular/humanist environment!
I wish. I had the devout Christian parents who went to Catholic school. I suspect my father was an Agnostic, but was too afraid to say so.
our material conditions, but our material conditions that determine our consciousness’? Seems to me to be the exact truth. Although what Marx means in that statement by consciousness I’m not entirely sure…
Maybe he meant that we view our world through the extrenal and not so much in terms of the internal. We value the tangible and not the intangible. It’s easy to measure how many cars or factories or people you own. Not so easy to measure the character of a man…
I don’t know where in America you live, but the cultural indoctrination must be pretty intense. I read somewhere or other that 75% of Harvard students think it unnecessary to learn a foreign language. The thinking, it seems is ‘if everyone speaks English, why would I need anything else’, which perhaps illustrates the closedmindedness more than anything else.
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 31, 2006 @ 7:29 pm
I was born in new Jersey, but moved to Georgia at 6.
It is definitely the culture here to think that the American Way is THE Way. Not all of us subscribe to that nonsense, but we are the minority, and why we hang out here with one another lamenting the impending fate of our nation as a result of bad foreign policies, and ignorant arrogance (or arrogant ignorance perhaps).
Harvard has its own culture. My ex graduated from there. There’s a level of thinking they have to learn a forgeign language to be able to conquer the world… It’s not as liberal there as they claim. It’s another form of a ‘good ol’ boy’ network that opens door for those who are elite enoug to gain admittance. Just look at George Bush. It’s his alma mater. And from what I’ve heard, and seen, Harvard is greatly over-rated (again – see Bush).
August 31st, 2006 at 7:41 pmSadly, I think Buchanan reveals in that one statement the unspoken but grand unifying principal of the Republican Party: a bucolic (but false) image from their childhood, a grossly naive but potent memory that impels them to recreate the conditions of their supposedly idyllic youth — if racism was a condition of that “memory mirage” where no or few black faces existed, by God, they’ll bring it back and try to rationalize it as something else.
Many times when I’ve spoken to social conservatives they eventually reveal some desire to get back to a false memory of the past — an unreal memory formed from an innocent child’s mind — it’s the comfort of that innocence they actually seek but they confuse the feelings associated with that innocence with the conditions of the time. They fail to acknowledge the disconnect between their idealized memories and the reality. Like some twisted Twilight Zone episode (remember “Kick the Can” or “Next Stop Willoughby”?) they think they can recapture that feeling by recreating the socio-political conditions of their youth. It’s the pretzel logic that says: I was happy as a child. Segregation was a component of my happy childhood. Therefore, segregation will make me happy again.
It’s also the same phenomena that makes Disneyland’s sanitized recreations of the past so appealing to conservatives.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:42 pm#50 –
August 31st, 2006 at 7:47 pmWell said. I’ve been wondering why Buchannites are so hostile to illegal immigration. You’d think they’d like all those “brownies” from south of the border doing all the menial jobs so decent white folks don’t have to (like blacks in the segregation days of the 30’s and 40’s). But I think you’re right, they can’t have them trying to annex the southwest U.S. back to Mexico, they can’t have us all speaking spanglish, it would be the end of America civilization. Like Steve Martin said, “man those French people have a different word for everything!” Although he’s vile, perhaps he can be a useful idiot for our side. There are still large numbers of moderate republicans who are economically pretty conservative, but socially more liberal, and they’re finding it increasingly more difficult to stay in the party. I say more coverage of Pat! Put that ugly racist face on the Republican party with less than 70 days to elections. Same for Bush, the more he tries to keep Iraq and the war on terror tied together, the more ridiculous he looks. Scare the living daylights out of any moderate or independent who’s even considering voting Republican.
sorry for the australia tie-in again, arctic (and all here) — but this is EXACTLY what’s behind what is happening in australia as well. the prime minister, john howard, is a grand sympathizer of the “good old days”, as a child of the 50s himself.
one simple phrase for you dinosaurs (and no the irony is not lost, given my screen name):
ADAPT OR DIE.
we didn’t survive this whole time as a species by yearning for the past. conservatism shouldn’t mean anti-progressionalism.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:47 pmWhat is this Pat’s last rant? Put a fork in it, its done.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:49 pmno, desk jockey,
August 31st, 2006 at 7:49 pmbut unbelievable has one particular troll that occasionally posts as her (and others), which violates the terms of use of this site.
Santo,
We know it’s you. It doesn’t matter how many names you post under, we recognize you. We always recognize you. And you even admit it with your exaggerated denials. Now, stop immitating other people, including me. No one likes that.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:50 pmSanto/Dr Joyce/Sandy/Lisa Bouvier/digos/Little Nikita/desk jockey,
Knock it off. It’s not funny and you are clogging the thread with your gibberish. And it wouldn’t be the first time.
I don’t care for your obsession. I am going to go out on a limb and say nobody else does, either.
Stop trolling.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:51 pmthe same troll also posted here as “dr joyce brother” and “lisa bouvier”
i suspect i might get the treatment as well, given this troll is obviously an infantile button-pusher.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:52 pmWell, given that scientist have well-established the fact that we all came from Africa in the first place, we’re each just a variation on a theme. To despise somebody because they look different (or act differently because of subcultural conditioning) is to despise one’s brother, sister, mother or father. And that’s not hippy-dippy talk: that’s science and reason.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:52 pmADAPT OR DIE.
Comment by progressaurus rex — August 31, 2006 @ 7:47 pm
And, of course, they reject Evolution :)
The other person immitating me was banned. Judd sent me an email. This time it is Santo posting as me. Probably because I am ignoring him. Just like the kids in my classes who act out – they aren’t getting enough attention at home… my guess is neither is he :)
August 31st, 2006 at 7:53 pmGreat point brian mac! We are, after all, primates that share 96.4% ofour DNA with chimpanzees…
August 31st, 2006 at 7:55 pmliving in another country, i do occasionally have people ask me, “is it true that half of americans don’t believe evolution?”
my usual reply: “don’t let it happen here. root out your fundamentalists — of whatever variety — and make pariahs of them”.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:56 pmmy usual reply: “don’t let it happen here. root out your fundamentalists — of whatever variety — and make pariahs of themâ€.
Comment by progressaurus rex — August 31, 2006 @ 7:56 pm
Sage advice! I hope they take it!
August 31st, 2006 at 7:57 pmThat country?
I think he’s talkin about Alabama.
:P
August 31st, 2006 at 8:01 pmThe only thing I’d like to see applied to Ann Coulter is a restraining order.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:03 pmyes, well there’s a party that’s gaining popularity here called the “family first” party.
you can guess what that’s about. it’s pretty much run straight out of a church here (the hillsong church — the advent of the australian megachurch).
they vote in a coalition with the ruling “liberal” party, which is nothing of the sort. they may as well be called the lie-beral party. the progressives here are labor and the greens — and you’ll notice if you read news reports about australian politics, the “liberals” are almost always referred to as the “conservative ruling party” or “conservative majority party”.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:03 pm110,
I once read the amusing comment that conservativism ‘was trying to resurrect the mystical time when ones grandfather was young’. I think that covers a lot of the more ideological and irrational areas of conservatism- father figures and so on. Also mixed up in there I think is fear of the Other, and an inability to cope with the potential uncertainties of the future. Although that is best expressed in fascist propoganda- an outright myth about ‘the way things were’ combined witha ‘the present wouldn’t be so bad, if it wasn’t for those damn [insert irrational hate figure here]‘.
109,
My mother is an agnostic- a Christian for the sake of form. Which translates to: never goes to church, never prays, never sings hymns, but, you know, just in case… At the risk of seeming overly cynical I’d say she illustrates the social nature of mass religion perfectly. There is nothing subjective about her belief.
Regarding the Marx comment- I find it quite difficult. My (rather preliminary) reading is that the terms in which we understand ourselves are determined- which is not to say that our selves are determined, but rather the categories through which our selves play out… or something like that!
I would love to know what Harvard is really like. The only person I know who went there went to study statistical analysis in the summer holidays. So he couldn’t really ‘gauge the political compass’ of the university itself. I know that the Uk equivalent, Oxford and Cambridge, deliberately tried to get rid of the ‘old school tie’ influences. Although it doesn’t seem to have been too successful…
but any university that not only lets bush, but also lets him graduate, can’t be that great!
By the way, what is it you teach your pupils?
August 31st, 2006 at 8:04 pmHey, maybe Rush could eat Ann Coulter. Granted , it probably wouldn’t satisfy his hunger to eat that stick-like abomination. But it would satisfy the Hell out of me.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:04 pmWe need to start a movement to get Pat Buchanan fired from MSNBC, he doesn’t deserve to be a commentator for a network.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:12 pmHey, maybe Rush could eat Ann Coulter. Granted , it probably wouldn’t satisfy his hunger to eat that stick-like abomination. But it would satisfy the Hell out of me.
Comment by Al — August 31, 2006 @ 8:04 pm
Why Al, do you like to watch?
August 31st, 2006 at 8:12 pmYes, pure racism! Is tis the reicht? Seem so.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:12 pmPat Buchanan comes across in a relatively harmless way. The people who can espouse clearly biased ideas and can do so in a non-threatening manner are especially to be feared. It is obvious that some people are foaming-at-the-mouth racists; Buchanan is much more subtle.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:14 pmI bet Ann C-hole-ter would taste like shit with bones.
-GSD
August 31st, 2006 at 8:17 pmBy the way, what is it you teach your pupils?
Comment by Prince Myshkin — August 31, 2006 @ 8:04 pm
I think your analysis of conservatism is ’spot on’. They don’t seem to have adequate coping skills so they invent fairytales to pacify their fears. And, of course it doesn’t do for everyone to be equal, because you simply cannot assuage your personal insecurities unless someone else is ‘evil’, therefore making you ‘blessed’ (I detest that word!). And well, skin color is easy to point out. I mean an Atheist or gay could lie to save themselves. But darkies can’t hide that fact…
I know several people now who pretend to be Christian but who are Agnostic. I can’t imagine how you could keep a marriage together after telling your devout spouse that the whole notion of god is a bit too absurd to swallow.
Europe has most definitely been moving away from religious zealotry in favor of scientific evidence. It’s why I would bet, in nearly every instance, on a European teenager being able to beat any of our elected officials in a debate. The majority of the least ignorant people on this site are Europeans. It’s embarrassing when you guys know more about American history and politics than most conservatives….
As for Marx, I think there’s something to be said for what gets lost in translation. I don’t always know what he’s driving toward. And I’m not the least bit superstitious about Communism.
I’d like to think I teach them (high school juniors and seniors) how to think like rational folks – but the official titles of my classes are Architecture I and Architecture II. My second year teaching, first at teaching the subject (I used to be an architect). We’re endling week 5 and I have begun to notice some of the kids getting the idea of cause and effect, supporting your opinion with facts, and that there isn’t necessarily a ‘right’ answer. I’m subversive, and oddly enough, it’s what the kids seem to like most about me :).
August 31st, 2006 at 8:18 pm123,
Why are the nutcases to be feared? They are the ones that are most easily exposed as liars and idiots. Who takes any notice of David Duke? The ones I fear are the likes of Buchanan; he sounds like a ‘concerned citizen’ and on that basis could influence the more moderate sections of the population, the ones who say ‘I’m not a racist, but…’
August 31st, 2006 at 8:19 pmthe irony is that buchanan is a HUGE detractor of the iraq war, and for all the right reasons.
jeez, i was almost starting to be able to tolerate pat buchanan.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:21 pmbay buchanan, however, is a completely different story — total bog harpy.
Gotta run for now…. As always, nice to have rational conversations without the hate-spewing trolls like MA around.
Have a nice evening all! Even you Santo…
August 31st, 2006 at 8:22 pmI am appalled that people express such opinions – and on NATIONAL television! Not with their drunken buddies in a bar, not in the privacy of their own homes, but on national television, for all to hear!
What the hell has happened to decency in the country? Shame on you, Pat Buchanan! For shame!
August 31st, 2006 at 8:27 pmI remember growing up in a country in which 89-90% of the country was sane. I like that country, too.
You know, I wasn’t planning on writing or posting anything today. I was going to take the night off but then David “Bobo” Brooks had to go and open his cock hole and go off on the Plame outing case. D r i f t g l a s s is MIA so…
…into the breach I had to go, my friends. Welcome to the second installment of the Cloven Hoof and Mouth Series.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:37 pmGregor,
You make good points. Let me respond.
While Mexicans do descend in part from Spanish colonists, they are very different culturally from modern Spanish citizens. They are the product of centuries of living under a repressive, tyrannical, violent and corrupt government, and this legacy was not undone by the Mexican Revolution. Gangs are a natural response for self-protection in such an environment, but that doesn’t mean that the U.S. has to accept them. There are many other non-economic cultural differences between Americans of European ancestry and Mexican immigrants that result from their different societal histories. If you can’t agree on at least this, there is no point having this discussion.
Secondly, Italy and Russia are somewhat outside the classical ‘European democracy’ model I envision. Both are corrupt quasi-democracies with a long history of repressive, authoritarian government. Hence the somewhat lower socio-economic level and the presence of entrenched international criminal gangs that you do not find in Germany, England, France, Holland, Spain, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal, etc. With the possible exception of Poland, I would place ex-Communist states such as Albania, Serbia & Montenegro, etc. in the same category as Italy and Russia, though I think an immigrant from any of these countries would tend to assimilate (i.e., the immigrant and his or her descendants would tend to reach the same educational and economic level and participate in civil society to the same degree as ‘European’ Americans) much more quickly and smoothly than an immigrant from, say, Central America.
But beyond this somewhat arid historical debate, let me ask you a simple but provocative question — would you rather learn that a family from Sweden or a family from Haiti or El Salvador is moving next door? If you say you wouldn’t care, I assert (assuming you are from European ancestry) that you’re lying, maybe even to yourself. And it doesn’t matter if your criteria are ethnic or economic. the fact is that you would not only prefer to live next to the Swedes, but you would also be more likely to connect with them personally. It’s not PC, but life often isn’t. We all hate stereotyping, but we don’t like to acknowledge that stereotypes exist for a reason. Buchanan just has the balls to admit publicly what a lot of white Americans, both liberal and conservative, think but are afraid to say.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:44 pm42 Years and he finally gives up ONE POINT to JFK.
amazing. I lived to see it.
waste of skin.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:47 pmEver notice how you never seem to see Pat Buchanan and Bay Buchanan in the same place at the same time????
August 31st, 2006 at 8:51 pmwell, tom s., as a european-descended american, all i get out of your comment is that you appear to have limited experience with people from other cultures. your veiled attempts to paint with a wide brush are pretty weak.
having been neighbors with hispanics, europeans, asians, africans and white anglos, i can honestly say it still comes down to the individuals. generally i’ve found when you’re nice to your neighbors, they’re nice back to you.
and some of the biggest assholes of the lot have been the white anglos.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:55 pmI think Pat Buchanan rocks! He is refreshingly, politically incorrect. In other words, he is honest
August 31st, 2006 at 8:55 pmbillie,
August 31st, 2006 at 9:00 pmclaiming america was ever 89-90% white (in pat buchanan’s lifetime) is not honest, unless of course you’d still like to apply the 3/5ths rule.
Alan Colmes is such a wus. Any other journalist would have nailed him for that.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:03 pmHow and why does this overt racist continue to have access to mass media outlets? He is bonkers and is in the same category as Pat Robertson!
August 31st, 2006 at 9:05 pmthat’s true, colmes is a wus.
glenn greenwald was on his radio show debating a wingnut about the fisa act (the guy claimed the fisa act didn’t cover foreign intelligence gathering — the full name of the act is the foreign intelligence surveillance act).
the wingnut kept talking over glenn, making some pretty ridiculous points — and colmes basically just let it happen.
the wingnut also tried to claim that a 1972 supreme court ruling gave bush the power to eavesdrop. all well and good, except the fisa law was passed in 1978…
August 31st, 2006 at 9:07 pm[Modern Mexicans] are very different culturally from modern Spanish citizens.
Comment by Tom S. — August 31, 2006 @ 8:44 pm
About as different from the Spanish as Americans are from the British.
They are the product of centuries of living under a repressive, tyrannical, violent and corrupt government,
For a few of those centuries both countries were ruled by the same people: The Spanish crown. Spain also had its on tyrannical, corrupt, oppresive, tyrannical regime headed by Francisco Franco. I’d say both countries have a lot in common.
And I didn’t say that the US must accept the proliferation of gangs. I said it is a natural consequence of a group feeling marginalized, both economically and socially. In that respect, Hispanic immigrants are no diferent from other groups.
Secondly, Italy and Russia are somewhat outside the classical ‘European democracy’ model I envision.
By this you concede my point that the immigration issue is not a racial, but a social and/or economic one. Most Hispanic immigrants are from the lower rungs in their countries of origin. As were the Italians, the Irish, and the Polish before them.
Your list of “unacceptable vs acceptable” countries is exactly my point. From that perspective, we could place Hispanic immigrants in the same category as -say- Russians. But Buchanan didn’t say “Russians do not assimilate” because, for the prejudiced fearmonger, skin color is all that counts. Social and educational standing are a lot harder to assess from the distance. Facial features, and skin color are unescapable.
Would you rather learn that a family from Sweden or a family from Haiti or El Salvador is moving next door?
It depends… if I were single and the Swedes were a bunch of 20-something year old women rooming together… well…
Now seriously. I wouldn’t want to live next to a gang-banger no matter their skin color. I live in a somewhat diverse neighborhood, and the issue of having this or that nationality living next door to me didn’t even cross my mind. I have neighbors of Japanese, Chinese, and East Indian ancestry. It doesn’t bother me. I don’t see why it should.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:14 pmWhat the hell? Why is that racist cracker on any television program? I remember when being a racist was frowned upon, and people tended to distance themselves from the racist, not help him sell his book.
I already found Ann Coulter’s book in my parents’ home, I will have a hissy fit if I find Buchanan’s book there.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:15 pmno, zooey, it’s all part of the media trying to be “fair” and tell “both sides of the story” now.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:20 pmsooo – who decides who is white? you pat? a new federal agency the Department of Pigmentation?
August 31st, 2006 at 9:23 pmcan we build a machine to scan in skin color? what’s halliburton’s number – they’ve got the kung fu I’m sure.
anyone who has been to Brazil and seen the fabulous result of the mixture of races knows just how foul Pat Buchanan is. I think Brazilians are the most attractive people I have seen…
Pat should revert to the original German for his material – its much easier to goosestep to.
RE: #86 You fear gangs of hispanics, asians etc. No mention of white gangs, which numerically are a far bigger threat to your lifestyle. And why do you reduce the presence of ethnic minorities and non-european immigrants to this problem, ignoring the vastly more significant positive contributions by 95% or more of them? It shows your underlying racism, I would suggest. The racism that you are not even aware of. Perhaps you would open your arms to european gangmembers who look more like your children? Poland, Romania, the Ukraine and Russia would love to export their troubled children to your white neighborhood where they would not stand out as much as those asiatics and hispanics. ANd finally, let me ask you why it is you fail to realize that most latinos have a very large dose of european blood and culture…perhaps they are not white enough for you to appreciate their culture?
WEll, you can continue to live in fear and spout your disguised hatred of those not of your “kind”. YOu can build fences. But you will not stop it.
Personally, I am more afraid of the neocon, authoritarian gangsters who are holding the reins of power in Washington, D.C. The white republican ganster you probably still support despite the probably irreperable damage they are doing to the nation. Those gangstas you fear are not as big a threat, I assure you.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:25 pmProg Rex,
I know I’m not telling you anything new, but that’s not their job.
I want the news people to tell what is going on in the world, truthfully, and then I will decide for myself. What a concept, eh?
August 31st, 2006 at 9:25 pmReturning to my conjecture in #102 above, what makes people like Buchanan (i.e. most of the Republican Party) infuriating is they don’t even recognize the vile racism they are espousing. That’s because the prime motivation isn’t exactly hatred of dark-skinned people — it’s that they’re trying to recreate a set of conditions and associations they see as idyllic. So Buchanan is forced to rationalize some crazy explanation about why he needs 89%-90% white people to realize his childhood fantasy world. I really believe there’s a primal id impulse driving these people based solely on some primitive memory and a set of irrational psychological associations. I can actually believe that Buchanan would be respectful to the 10% black people that make up his fantasy America because his motive is to recreate a set of conditions he associates with happiness not necessarily outright racism — that’s why they’re genuinely baffled when they’re accused of racism.
This is no excuse. The consequence is EXACTLY racism born of shallow self-examination of the motives behind their desires and the unjust immoral consequences that would come of their policies.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:25 pm#127 P.Rex; Anyone who worked for Richard Nixon (his speechwriter) is automatically suspect. Guilty by association, and just plain guilty. It doesn’t end there either. He is also a cowardly chickenhawk- “bad” knee kept him out of Vietnam, but not from jogging.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Man, but this guy is a pig.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:27 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
oh, don’t worry, i’m no fan of buchanan’s. he’s always been harping the same racist points. at least he’s consistent.
nevertheless, he’s been against the iraq war since before it started.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:29 pm#131, Tom see that’s why discussions are enlightening. It let’s everyone know Tom is a racist and proud of it. He besmirches everyone who ever came to this country except the “pure waspie whites” and then tells you if none wasps moved in next to him, he’d be disappointed. Yep, this is why discussion is so enlightening. OK everybody except Bristish or Swedes out of Tom’s country.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:31 pmSorry, but why is the statement racist?
Buchanan says he grew up in a city that was 50-50 white-black. What relevance does the rest of his statement have? There are many many other Buchanan statements to revile.
But maybe that’s the point?
August 31st, 2006 at 9:33 pmI listern to hes interview on AlFranken show. it was interesting
August 31st, 2006 at 9:33 pmPat belives immigration was good for America just that currnetly there too much immigration.
Sorry, but why is the statement racist?
See #102 and #147 above. That’s more evidence in support of my conjecture.
It’s Buchanan’s convoluted attempt to rationalize a racist set of conditions while claiming not to be racist. It’s his way of saying I was comfortable living in a city half black and half white (i.e. I’m not a racist) but I want a total population skewed towards a white majority. He’s interested in recreating a set of conditions that he associates with his idyllic youth. He’s trying to rationalize it. This is a disease that affects many social conservatives.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:40 pmAnother member of the boys in the hoods! coming out of the closet.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:51 pmI went to the US census data that reflects the mix of population since 1790 and according to that data base, the peak of white population in any census that had not failed to count Latinos among the white population was in 1970 (83.4%). This is in an Excel page at census.gov/population/documentation/twps0056/tab01.(xls)(Remove the parens around xls in order to bring up the chart. You may have to add the http, slashes, colon, www and : as well, I don’t want to have to retype all this stuff in order to get by the spa(m) filter.). This indicates that Patty had to have either grown up in another country or he is over 216 years old. If one graphs out the data, it appears that the non-Latino white population peaked out in the 1950 census at about 84.7%(Baby BOOM).
August 31st, 2006 at 9:53 pmoh, hey zooey, i agree.
i was kind of being facetious in my “fair” and “both sides” comments.
journalism has lost its way — being objective doesn’t mean validating radicalism, just out of fairness. i do think the media have to discredit meritless ideas (from either side of the aisle). i think it’s fair to air them, but the media today do WAY too little in the way of fact-checking and are continually letting outrageous assertions like these go unchallenged.
for instance, besides the fact that rumsfeld is now going around making blatant propaganda speeches, is there anything newsworthy about the man anymore (until he resigns or is fired)? i yearn for the day when the mainstream media have the balls to say to public officials, “until you stop making these ridiculous pronouncements, we won’t cover you. we refuse to give you a platform to make these assertions and spread what is essentially propaganda.”
August 31st, 2006 at 9:53 pmBy the bye, I am only excluding Latinos because that is the group that Patty is blacklisting. My roomie in college had a last name – Flores. My family was in NJ, I was in Texas, spent many a Christmas in Laredo.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:03 pm“darkies” ??? haven’t heard that in decades… but then that may be a colloquial term… don’t hear it much here in illinois… fortunately…
August 31st, 2006 at 10:22 pmPat loves to rail because no one in power listens to him if the power elite don’t agree with his latest harangue. In his article “Whose War”, he blames neo-cons and the Isael lobby for manipulating the Good Old US of A into a unnecessary war and self-destructive war. He calls Bush a traitor. This is not exactly the kind of harangue the current administion and the boys wanted to hear. The harangue that a foreign country, namely Israel controls American Foreign
August 31st, 2006 at 10:25 pmpolicy was not something that Republican establishment could tolerate. That harangue was muffled and simply ignored. He even wrote a book about it, “How the Right went Wrong”. Nada
no T.V., not response. Beating up on some
desperate brown skin immigrants well you will get Hannity to interview you. Is more in line with the administration profile. Beat up on the powerless, that’s more like it. Well, Israel does control our foreign policy, but you better not say it or you will be punished, or simply ignored, given Pat’s history of Semitic commentary. And the immigrant lobby is controled by the American Chamber of Congress and the big corporate cabal.
Pat can rail all he want’s. Let’s see what’s left. Not much. Pat, like the rest of us, is farmisht. America is meshugeh. going nuts after 9/11.
#148 – Uncle Ho, Sounds like it was a riot!
#157 – Prog Rex, I get so tired of the “media” trying to coddle us and lull us to sleep. People get so upset about liberals wanted a so-called Nanny State. What about the f*cking Nanny Media?
August 31st, 2006 at 10:40 pmwe don’t like to acknowledge that stereotypes exist for a reason.
Comment by Tom S. — August 31, 2006 @ 8:44 pm
I missed to address this one point. Yes, stereotypes do exist for a reason -and that is to make the world easier to undestand for the simple-minded.
You see, blood type is as determining a genetic characteristic as is skin color, but we don’t attribute personality traits to blood types. Doing so would be deemed ludicrous by nearly everyone, and yet, you feel confident to do just that based on skin color.
A more accurate predictor of a person’s behavior is a combination of education, income, and professional level -but that’s too complicated. So what’s an uncomplicated person to do? Equate skin color, and facial features to behavior, intelligence, and personality traits instead. Far easier, you can detect the difference at a distance. Too bad it doesn’t hold up to close examination.
Also, as some others have pointed out, the warmongers and fear peddlers occupying all branches of government are mostly Caucasian. They have stolen and squandered far more of our collective money (and the lives of many) than a petty Hispanic thug ever could. You tell me who is more dangerous.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:48 pmyes, zooey, personally i found the jonbenet ramsay case to be complete nonsense 10 years ago, and it’s even more nonsense now.
but it’s corporate media. it is in no way in their interest to alert people to the fact that our democracy is unravelling before our eyes. folks might get alarmed and stop buying worthless crap.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:48 pmYet another thread about this worthless fool….Put him on the list with Limpbaugh. Ugly ann, O’lilie and the other racests….I’m sick of them all….Blessings..Peace
August 31st, 2006 at 11:03 pmI actually think that the authentically confused Pat Buchanan was trying to say that he wasn’t racist. He said that lived in Washington when it was 50-50 black and white, while the rest of the country was 90% white. If he’s living in Washington, why should he care what the rest of the country is?
He doesn’t like hispanics, particularly Mexicans. He doesn’t like what he doesn’t know. Buchanan trades in stereotypes, and he’s helping the republicans’ with the white Christian vote by fanning their fears of the ‘dark men.’ Xenophobia’s a bitch.
Who cares what Buchanan doesn’t like? He and the white Christian republicans might as well be trying to hold back the sea. They’re making themselves irrelevant.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:16 pmOMG!
I was just going to go to sleep when I saw this!
http://www.adn.com/news/government/story/8142285p-8034601c.html
Raid on Alaska’s reps–including Ted Stevens!!!!!!!!
LOVE IT!!!
Now I *really* need to sleep. I’m exhausted!
August 31st, 2006 at 11:25 pmThere is a repressed racism fueling the “conservatives in name only – CINOs” these days. Many, like Buchanan are stuck in 1960’s still angry over forced busing, etc. The “immigration debate” is their first opportunity to “go public” with their views. They have finally found a way to wrap their racism and hatred in an American Flag instead of a Confederate flag. While the flag has changed, the white-supremecist hatred has not.
True conservatives should find this nonsense repugnant.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:32 pmwell, not exactly, trueblue – that raid was on alaska state reps and senators, including ben stevens, who is the son of ted stevens…
still, this could be interesting, as all are republicans (big surprise).
August 31st, 2006 at 11:37 pmJust out of curiosity, I wonder how many of the people making comments live in a neighborhood that has a rapidly changing demographic. How many of you would like to see your neighbors gradually replaced with people who do not share your language or culture? I am as liberal as they come but for the sake of the environment in our country (population growth = habitat loss and pollution – no way around it) I would like to see the illegal flow of immigration stopped. Pat Buchannan, even though a republican, sometimes hits a true note – especially regarding ILLEGAL immigration.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:42 pmBuchanan is committing suicide – his only fans will be other members of the KKK, and friends of David Duke.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:42 pmHe should be run out of town and he could take his sister with him.
Progressaurus Rex wrote: “all are republicans”
That is incorrect. The office of Sen. Donald Olson, D-Nome, was also searched.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:43 pm[...] Ah, Pat. Just when you start to sound reasonable, you turn around and show your true colors: Pat Buchanan has been a constant presence on cable TV since the release of his book, State of Emergency. Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white. [...]
August 31st, 2006 at 11:46 pmThe funny thing is that while you’re ripping Buchanan for what he’s saying, he can quote the whole pantheon of “progresive” politicians who have said the exact same thing. Go back and read any good history of the debate over the 1965 immigration bill.
Do I want to go back to a country that’s 90% white? If that country was less obsessed with race than we are today, I’d go back in a heartbeat. Somehow, in spite of the times, I suspect it was. That obsession with race (instead or working folks) is what’s put the Democrats out of power.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:49 pmLast night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white.
OK, tell me one country – one – that is overwhelmingly non-white that is experiencing huge immigration that will change the racial character of the nation?
The last time there were any was the 1600s. We saw what happened to those countries.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:52 pmW O W — just now on letterman:
KYRA PHILLIPS – TOP 10 EXCUSES
it was pretty funny – she probably did the best thing ever…
pretty good when you can make yourself the butt of the joke…
(good writers help!)
memory refresh – her microphone was on while she was
in the restroom, live on cnn… heh
and zooey: “Nanny Media” …heh… i love it…
August 31st, 2006 at 11:57 pmYou see, blood type is as determining a genetic characteristic as is skin color, but we don’t attribute personality traits to blood types. Doing so would be deemed ludicrous by nearly everyone…
What do you mean by “we,” Kemosabe? The Japanese actually do. Many Japanese are big on the practice.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:57 pmmemory refresh – her microphone was on while she was
in the restroom, live on cnn… heh
Comment by katy
What? Is that a joke? What happened? That could be just horrible…
September 1st, 2006 at 12:06 amzooey - something i caught yesterday at C&L:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/29/kyra-and-her-open-mic-his-wife-is-a-control-freak/
Kyra Phillips was in the bathroom and talked over the President’s speech with a friend not knowing her mic was live…rough transcript:
September 1st, 2006 at 12:13 amalso a link to wonkette – it’s a video though… some transcript…
an overwhelming majority of them are republicans. i stand corrected.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:19 amThe Human Genome project is proving that we are all related.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:27 amkaty,
Oh my god, that is frickin’ hilarious! And she’s gossiping over GWB’s speech, how perfect. Meeee-ooowwww!
September 1st, 2006 at 12:28 amwhatever bubba,
i’m sorry, but those 1965 democrats you want to condemn would be republicans today. the civil rights movement tore the dem party apart 40 years ago. those that left it are pretty much your modern southern republicans.
your grasp of american history is atrocious. furthermore, it’s ridiculous to trot out 40 year old canards like that — you should know fully well that today’s democratic party, just like today’s republican party, is nothing like it was in 1965.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:30 amSo, before America was invaded and colonized by Europeans, it was mostly white? I guess the Indians would have to be white then.
And when there were at some point more slaves from Africa than Europeans, it was mostly white? I guess the slaves would have to be white then.
And when at some point in the 19th century, a vast exodus of immigrants meant people from almost any country could come here and try their hand at the American dream, it was mostly white? I guess every single immigrant would have to be white then.
Nothing like Buchanan’s brand of institutionalized, polite-society rascism coupled with a neurotic need for attention and I.Q. below average to make one a celebrity on cable news these days.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:34 amyea, zooey - a worst nightmare scenario… she did great with the TOP 10 though… gotta give her credit for that…
marie - still here?
are you an ILLINI fan, per chance?
first game saturday… i gotta be there, watch the girl and the marching band… that’s why god made football, ya know… ;-)
it’s a night game too… i’m excited… this will be the 4th year and i’ve never been to a night game there… fireworks after… oooooooooo!
g’nite all
September 1st, 2006 at 12:37 amand in answer to your “one country” question: tibet
the chinese are trying to flood tibet with chinese settlers, to make tibetans a minority in their own country.
and you are also wrong the 1600s being the last time it happened. in the 1800s hawaii was a sovereign nation that americans overran.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:37 amAtleast Mr. Buchannan has the courage to be publicly honest about his opinions. While those opinions are truly disturbing, they probably reflect what is being felt by a large percentage of white americans. Most commentators balk at the mere existence of racism, denying that it still exists, while throwing their support behind racist immigration policies. Buchannan is being honest about his motivations. I respect a man who let’s me know where he stands, even if I disagree with him. Atleast then we know where he stands. More typical are those who present a benign image, putting on the mask of an angel while being nothing more than devils.
What was even more disturbing were the Fox News messages running on the bottom of the screen. “Millions remain loyal to the lands of their birth”, “How many Al Qaeda are in the U.S. waiting for orders?” etc. Classic fear mongering. Where are we headed?
September 1st, 2006 at 12:39 amwhodda thunkit… this is marvelous!
Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson
By: John Amato @ 6:41 PM – PDT
Transcript (courtesy of Salt Lake Tribune):
A patriot is a person who loves his or her country.
Who among you loves your country so much that you have come here today to raise your voice out of deep concern for our nation – and for our world?
And who among you loves your country so much that you insist that our nation’s leaders tell us the truth? Let’s hear it: “Give us the truth! Give us the truth! Give us the truth!”
Let no one deny we are patriots. We love our country, we hold dear the values upon which our nation was founded, and we are distressed at what our President, his administration, and our Congress are doing to, and in the name of, our great nation.
Blind faith in bad leaders is not patriotism.
A patriot does not tell people who are intensely concerned about their country to just sit down and be quiet; to refrain from speaking out in the name of politeness or for the sake of being a good host; to show slavish, blind obedience and deference to a dishonest, war-mongering, human-rights-violating president.
Read on… http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/31/salt-lake-city-mayor-rocky-anderson/
September 1st, 2006 at 12:45 ami’m sorry, but those 1965 democrats you want to condemn would be republicans today. the civil rights movement tore the dem party apart 40 years ago. those that left it are pretty much your modern southern republicans.
You mean like Teddy Kennedy? And Bobby Kennedy, Patty Mink, and Daniel Inouye? All modern Republicans, right? Or Caliborne Pell, a Northeastern liberal Republican?
And I’m well aware of the partisan changes over the last two generations.
http://www.vdare.com/fallon/060809_promises.htm
What I think is sad is that here’s an issue that can win voters for what the Democrats claim to believe in – the three E’s: economics, education and the environment – and they throw it away on race-baiting. You can’t ket go of your obsession with race. We’ve seen record economic growth over the last 4-5 years, but all the data show that working class Americans haven’t benefitted from any of it, and a big part of the reason why is immigration – but Democrats won’t bite.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:45 amA rascist republican, what will they think of next?
September 1st, 2006 at 12:47 amREPEAT:
Let no one deny we are patriots. We love our country, we hold dear the values upon which our nation was founded, and we are distressed at what our President, his administration, and our Congress are doing to, and in the name of, our great nation.
Blind faith in bad leaders is not patriotism.
thank you, mr. anderson…
September 1st, 2006 at 12:47 amand in answer to your “one country†question: tibet. the chinese are trying to flood tibet with chinese settlers, to make tibetans a minority in their own country. and you are also wrong the 1600s being the last time it happened. in the 1800s hawaii was a sovereign nation that americans overran.
Tibet is a conquered country, so that’s not exactly what I had in mind. I’m talking about voluntary policies supported by a nation’s leaders. Of course the term “nation” isn’t exactly accurate when referring to American Indians or New Zealand Maoris or Australian aborigines.
As the saying goes, “Indians had bad immigration laws.”
September 1st, 2006 at 12:52 amA rascist republican, what will they think of next? – Earl Henstra
No – a man trying to put food on the table for my family.
Enjoy another 20 years in the political wilderness, pal. Even if the Democrats win this fall they’ll do so poorly that the GOP will come roaring back in ‘08.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:56 amTom S.
You have hit an uncomfortable button and the so called liberal progessives here simply cannot admit you are right, therefore they immediately fling out the only argument they have.
That anyone who says anything they disagree with in regards to illegals flooding our country is automatically a racist.
It usually works with weak people. They don’t want anyone to dislike them so they will simply go along with the crowd that truly could care less about America so long as they win.
People who have actually worked hard to come to this country LEGALLY are more than welcome. I know that they are going to be by all accounts hard working, honest and have a serious desire to become an American. Knowing that whomever is moving in has spent the years and work needed to become an American resident is more welcoming to me than some jerk off who crossed the border illegally breaking our laws, and then demanding we change our laws to accomdate him.
As well employers who get away with this need to go to prison. As for anyone claiming it’s just too much hard work to find out if they are legal? Busslhit.
But like I said Tom, there is nothing you can say unless it’s going along with the open borders and amnesty for all crowd that will please them other than to simply say the same thing.
Those people are as bad as the acid laced kool aid drinkers from the Rethug party. If you dare to disagree you will be dragged over a cliff. The U.S. simply cannot afford to let everyone in anymore. The open borders types would watch us dragged down into a third world economy and still claim that even though we are now worse off with another 100 million illegals and their families here and getting rid of all immigration laws and quotas it was the politically correct thing to do. Otherwise you would be branded a racist for daring to think that in order for the U.S. to maintail a first world industrial we should curtail immigration even to the point of lowering quotas and making it very uncormfortable for illegals by throwing employers in prison and making sure they get no public benefits simply by breaking our laws.
So don’t bother. Any semblance of reality is beyond the open borders and amnesty types here.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:58 amand you actually insinuate that bobby kennedy was a racist? or ted kennedy? or daniel inouye, a native hawaiian?
who printed your history books, bubba?
c’mon, give us some quotes where these individuals said the same thing as buchanan is saying here — don’t just make assertions that you don’t back up.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:59 amIt’s really pointless to debate someone like Tom because he has already declared that he knows more about you than you do. Essentially, he asserts that any “white” person who denies preferring Swedes to Hispanics as neighbors is lying. No evidence presented of course, just the bald assertion that his own prejudice has the status of objective fact which justifies him labeling anyone who disagrees as either delusional, a liar, or both. This from the guy who said he wanted responses that didn’t engage in name calling. What a fraud.
It would probably be mordantly, or perhaps morbidly, amusing to hear him explain what he considers to be “far left progressive” politics. I suspect this self discription would turn out to be fraudulent as well. Considering that his arguments are largely identical to the racist nativist attacks launched in previous periods against Irish, Hungarian, Polish, Italian and Jewish immigrants, he would have to be one of the most ignorant and ill informed “far left progressives” imaginable. Particularly since all these arguments, including his own, have their historical taproot in the justifications for African enslavement and disenfranchisement.
If your White Supremacist Troll alarm isn’t ringing you need to get it checked.
Speaking as a southern white boy who lives in a predominately African American urban community, I’d prefer my current neighbors to Tom hands down.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:59 amWe’ve seen record economic growth over the last 4-5 years, but all the data show that working class Americans haven’t benefitted from any of it, and a big part of the reason why is immigration – but Democrats won’t bite.
Comment by Bubba — September 1, 2006 @ 12:45 am
You are damn right. MIgration of companies to III World countries, that is.
Of course the term “nation†isn’t exactly accurate when referring to American Indians or New Zealand Maoris or Australian aborigines.
Comment by Bubba — September 1, 2006 @ 12:56 am
And this is your opinion based on…what?
September 1st, 2006 at 1:00 amComment by progressaurus rex — September 1, 2006 @ 12:59 am
Hey, prog. I asked you before about how were relations between white and natives in Australia? Better or worse? Also, what happened to your blog, buddy?
September 1st, 2006 at 1:04 amEven if the Democrats win this fall they’ll do so poorly that the GOP will come roaring back in ‘08.
oh, that’s funny! so now you have to actually concede that republicans might just lose this fall.
tell me bubba, why are they going to lose? if they’re so good at running this country, why would people want a change? what happened to your “permanent majority”, bubba?
how come people like me, who traditionally voted for only third party candidates, will be voting a straight dem ticket in november, bubba?
how come people like my father, who most often voted for republicans, will be voting a straight dem ticket in november, bubba?
is it because republicans have done a really good job running the country, bubba?
or is it because people recognize this is a mess and the republicans have no one to blame but themselves?
September 1st, 2006 at 1:05 amFox news just had the son of the shah of Iran on
So now they pull out the big guns
We put the Shah in power after overturning a democratically elected govt in Iran in 1954
The Shah’s regime was a brutal dictatorship, finally overturned by a mixture of Iranians, and the mullahs came to power, thanks to US interference.
SOund familiar
And now they pull the Shah rabbit out of the hat again. Follow the money
September 1st, 2006 at 1:07 amSay and think what you will about Buc… But he’s right-on regarding the immigration mess.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:11 amwell juan, i can tell you that the maoris in new zealand definitely have a better time of it than aborigines do here.
but one of the problems the indigenous people of australia have always faced is that across the country there are literally hundreds of dialects, whereas the maori have had a pretty much common dialect and oral history.
aborigines have a natural distrust of the white establishment, which still exemplify disrespect often enough. given that i deal with indigenous artists on a daily basis, i see that overwhelmingly. there is still rampant exploitation of the indigenous people here (take into consideration that aboriginal art is basically the most recognizable cultural export of australia — it makes a lot of money, but the indigenous communities see only a fraction of it).
it is also sad that the aborigines have similar problems with alcohol that the native americans do.
so overall, though it is better in some ways, the old prejudices still rear their ugly heads, just as in america.
and the blog is stagnant for a while — i’m moving back to the states in october so i’m waiting to get back into it until then.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:15 amhow come people like my father, who most often voted for republicans, will be voting a straight dem ticket in november, bubba? is it because republicans have done a really good job running the country, bubba?
Possibly for the same reason a person like me, who usually votes a straight Republican ticket, will be voting a split ticket this fall (against both incumbents).
I don’t think Republicans have done a great job running the country. I don’t think Democrats are ready too, though. And the polls are moving the GOP’s way.
What I think will happen – and perhaps this is wishful thinking – is that it will be a bad year for many incumbents of both parties.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:19 amAnd this is your opinion based on…what? – Juan C
Uhhhh, based on the fact that American Indians in the 1600s didn’t have a national government? (Nor have they ever, for that matter…)
September 1st, 2006 at 1:22 amthere is also east timor, which was invaded by indonesia in 1975, shortly after it gained its independence from portugal.
how nice that gerald ford gave the indonesians the go-ahead to carry out that invasion, which of course led to genocide. and — how nice — we sold the indonesians weapons.
isn’t it great the track record america has helping the world since 1947?
you know what would help solve our imigration problem? enforcing the laws we already have and going after the businesses that are hiring illegal immigrants. if the illegal employers were held accountable and the illegal jobs dried up, the immigrants wouldn’t have a reason to come here, would they?
i wonder why republicans don’t talk too much about that?
September 1st, 2006 at 1:27 amUhhhh, based on the fact that American Indians in the 1600s didn’t have a national government? (Nor have they ever, for that matter…)
Comment by Bubba — September 1, 2006 @ 1:22 am
According to what definition of nation? Please, explain me.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:29 amBubba , if you are serious about your concern for the US working class, I suggest you stop being a dupe for the interests that that have been underming it for the last 30 years. You want an end to illegal immigration? Start locking up the corporados who benefit from it. Kick out the politicians whose pockets are lined with contributions from these same corporate pirates. Legalize the status of the immigrant workers already in the US so that they can openly organize to demand decent wages and benefits.
Or you can keep behaving like a trained seal barkings in pavlovian response to xenophobic, racist appeals. Those who profit from the cheap labor of illegal immigrants would like nothing better than to pose as defenders of racial and cultural tolerance. People such as yourself are acting as their enablers.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:31 ambubba,
much of the inspiration of our own constitution comes from the laws of the “federal union of five (and later six) Indian nations that had put into practice concepts of popular participation and natural rights that the European savants had thus far only theorized.”
these were observed by benjamin franklin, who subsequently contributed his observations to our own founding fathers’ deliberations!
furthermore,
so, like i said before, your grasp of american history is atrocious.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:34 amUhhhh, based on the fact that American Indians in the 1600s didn’t have a national government? (Nor have they ever, for that matter…)
Comment by Bubba
Christ on a cracker, Blubba, what’s your frickin’ point?
September 1st, 2006 at 1:40 amYes, of course – the great Iroquois Confederation. What a marvelous influence it was on the thoughts of our founders!
September 1st, 2006 at 1:41 amTom S.,
I grew up in a predominately hispanic area of San Jose and I’m Irish Catholic. I NEVER had problems with gangs because people knew that I was not into the gang “thing”. Yes, I used to hang with gang members, but I was more into developing real relationships with people vs. gang banging, and I was more into getting an education (SJSU class of 99). People knew that I was different, and they gave me respect. I could hang with bangers and still be myself. That was my choice, and maybe I was lucky. Now, I’m a parent, and I send my daughter to a public school that teaches only in spanish. Why, because people who are bilingual are smarter, more able to deal with people in their community. Moral of the story: Expand you horizons, do your own thing!
t-mac
September 1st, 2006 at 1:42 amIt is a good thing that since he can’t obviously return to his youth when so many of us good ones were white, he can always look forward to death that will no doubt be knocking on his door in the near future. Pat isn’t looking so good lately. Me thinks he finds no comfort in the company of otherness. Mr. Buchanan is a dinosaur, and he and his ilk are about to die off. Long live the open minded! I assure you, Mr. Buchanan, we will survive your worries! -Kevo
September 1st, 2006 at 1:43 am#209 – Any other conditions or addendums you want to add on there, Bubba? Get it all out in the open now, it saves time.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:47 amGood discussion. I expected the ‘racist’ epithets, although for me this has nothing to do with race per se. My wife is Asian, I lived in an Asian country for five years, many of my friends are…blah blah. My point is that a country has every right to restrict immigration to those people whose attitudes, values, educational level and the like are most consistent with those of the people in the country they’re immgrating to. The extreme example is that we should not accept immigrants who do not believe in secular , democratic government with guarantees of freedom of speech and religion, but instead believe in, say, a theocratic or authoritarian government which bans speech that they find ‘insulting’ to their religion. The prime ministers of England and Australia, hardly anti-immigrant racists, both made this point recently. Societies such as Iran are perfectly entitled to have such a system, but these are not American values. Similarly, we should not accept immigrants who are uneducated and impoverished. Maybe 100 years ago, but not now. Not because they are dark-skinned or bad people, but because they are driving down the wages received by the American middle class, which should be our first priority — and the first person who calls this racist should either immediately go out and adopt three or four children from Third World countries (you know you can afford it if you reduce your standard of living) or shut up, because you are a hypocrite. Skin color or ethnicity is the least important factor here, and it’s a pity that Buchanan made that ‘black and white’ comment, because he should have talked about economics, culture and values, which I think are legitimate topics for discussion.
I am also more scared of continued GOP rule than I am of continued unchecked immigration. But that’s an easy thing to say. I was motivated to write here because I detest the PC attitude that all discussion of how the demographics of the country are changing is racist per se and out of bounds. To go further, I also reject the idea that the reason that black and Hispanic children, for example, have demonstrably lower levels of academic achievement (even when they attend the same schools and are at the same socio-economic level as generally higher-achieving white and Asian students) is that they are ‘oppressed minorities’. East Asians such as Chinese and Japanese were just as oppressed 100 years ago, but largely because they have different long-seated cultural (i.e., Confucian) attitudes regarding education, places like Berkeley are now agonizing about being inundated with super-achieving Asian students. And I won’t even go into how disproportionately successful and well-educated American Jews are despite their exclusion from traditional WASP institutions of advancement, such as elite schools and dominant corporations, in the early part of the nation’s history. So those who want to pigeonhole these thoughts as the rantings of a racist can go ahead, but to me, besides being intellectually dishonest, you are afraid to look at things as they really are, not as how you wish they were.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:48 amOh, and after reading a few of Bubba’s comments above, I now can say that I think Bubba is historically and factually challanged! Nice words, I assure you Bubba, as I am a Republican and we are capable of using more choice words upon those of you who can’t seem to find yourselves out of an intellectually wet paper bag. -Kevo
September 1st, 2006 at 1:48 amTom S.,
Who asked the native Americans about immigration?
t-mac
September 1st, 2006 at 1:56 amt-mac,
You’re mama must be so proud of you.
:)
September 1st, 2006 at 1:57 amYour — not “you’re”
Damn, I’m tired.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:58 amChrist on a cracker, Blubba, what’s your frickin’ point?
Comment by Zooey — September 1, 2006 @ 1:40 am
Hey, Zoo. Im glad you came here. You are like super Zoo!
September 1st, 2006 at 1:59 amHi Juan.
It’s been a few days. Things going well?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:00 amTHE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING, WE KNOW THE LIES,
Til I go down, oh yeah
Til I go down
I’m not going to shut my eyes
Not not til i go down
Not not til i go down
I’m not going to shut my eyes
I’ve already seen the lies
On the faces of the men of war
Leading people to the killing floor
I’m not going to shut my eyes
No No
NOT NOT til I go down
NOT NOT til I go down
Til I go down
Til the world stops spinning around
TIl I’m six feet under the ground
Til there’s no sound
Til there’s no pain
I’m going to swing this chain
I’m not going to shut my mouth
til the truth comes out
about the leader with the iron will
and his allegiance to the dollar bill
JACKSON BROWNE
September 1st, 2006 at 2:00 amZooey,
Of course she’s proud of me! I’m a progessive.
t-mac
September 1st, 2006 at 2:02 amHow many threads are you going to post that on, cmw?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:03 amOops… Progressive! It is late.
t-mac
September 1st, 2006 at 2:03 ami am so sick of all of this vitriolic rhetoric coming from guys like buchanan. hate to generalize but it seems to be pretty pervasive in that party.
but you have to admit it is pretty funny to see this half-dead old man up there just spewing out racist, vile, hate-mongering garbage…and of course it’s on fox.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:04 amMy point is that a country has every right to restrict immigration to those people whose attitudes, values, educational level and the like are most consistent with those of the people in the country they’re immgrating to.
Comment by Tom S. — September 1, 2006 @ 1:48 am
Am I the only one who doesnt get it?
Not because they are dark-skinned or bad people, but because they are driving down the wages received by the American middle class, which should be our first priority
September 1st, 2006 at 2:05 amSo now the immigrant workers control and regulate working class salaries? Ha ha ha! That was a good one. Try to focus on the real problem here: company owners and government. As Ive said before, it is really easy and unoriginal to blame poor people jumping fences or waiting weeks in a ship container. It is harder than making the rich people, those that decide to move factories to Bangladesh and China, accountable for their manouvers.
Things going well?
Comment by Zooey — September 1, 2006 @ 2:00 am
Yep. I got a class to teach tomorrow and here I am, enjoying your comments. :)
September 1st, 2006 at 2:06 amHow are you, Ms?
Nice one, Juan.
I wonder how Mrs Tom S likes being married to that one.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:07 amZooey:
Why are you up so late?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:07 amI’m frickin’ tired, Juan, and yet, here I am. I’ve been on a roller coaster day, and I’m about done.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:08 amAs if i really didn’t understand
that i was just another part of the plan
i went on looking for the promise believing in the mother land
from the comfort of a dreamers bed
and the safety of my own head
i went on speaking
while other people fought and bled
JACKSON BROWNE
get your conscience together people cause the sh’t is about to hit the fan and you’re going to have to be on one side or the other, no more fence sitting
September 1st, 2006 at 2:09 amHi Bingo,
why are you up so late?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:09 amMy point is that a country has every right to restrict immigration to those people whose attitudes (RASCIST), values (NEO-CON), educational level (GRADE SCHOOL) and the like are most consistent with those of the people in the country they’re immgrating to (Who ASKED THE NATIVE AMERICANS?!?).
t-mac
September 1st, 2006 at 2:10 amcmw,
How many people do you find on TP who are sitting on the fence. Please…
September 1st, 2006 at 2:10 ami have prayed for america
i was made for america
i can’t let go til she’s come round
until the land of the free
is awake and can see
until her conscience can be found
JACKSON BROWNE
September 1st, 2006 at 2:11 amZooey
September 1st, 2006 at 2:12 ammost of them
I’ve been on a roller coaster day, and I’m about done.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:12 amComment by Zooey — September 1, 2006 @ 2:08 am
Is everything OK? Im here for one reason. True asked me to keep fighting…what am I gonna do? Again, cant argue with a woman. :)
Bullshit, cmw
September 1st, 2006 at 2:12 amJuan,
As long as you’re not fighting with her, it’s all good.
I haven’t seen much of true either. Is something up?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:14 amSimilarly, we should not accept immigrants who are uneducated and impoverished.
similarly, we should not accept our own citizens who are uneducated and impoverished!
more than 40 million people in america are functionally illiterate
the poverty rate is 12.8%, and — big surprise — has been rising the last 5 years.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:16 amBush & Hilary – soldiers of misfortune
AH boy boy
this world is not your toy
this world is long on hunger
this world is short on joy
a e i o
you speak as if you know
what’s good for everyone
what’s good about a world in which
people die for the little things
‘a little corn a little beans
ah boy boy
this world is not your toy
this world is…long on hunger
short on joy
how much longer
you gonna keep the world hungry boy
ah boy
you measure peace with guns
September 1st, 2006 at 2:16 amprogress in megatons
who is left when the war is done
soldier of misfortune
Is something up?
Comment by Zooey — September 1, 2006 @ 2:14 am
She is in some sort of project. She was exhausted so she had to sleep. She is a doll.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:17 amyep, cmw, i’m gonna have to call bullshit on that also.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:17 amZooey:
Just doin’ some late night lurkin’.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:18 amI hope you don’t have to work tomorrow;four day weekend maybe?
Zooey – no bullshit
September 1st, 2006 at 2:19 amI don’t see anyone on this blog going beyond the mealy mouthed bs of appeasement and globalized academic intellectual f’k-everyone-over while looking like kindly and wise professors.
Juan,
You’re right, true is a doll. I give her a ration of shit because it’s so funny, but she’s a great person. I think we have much in common, except for my lack of greatness.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:19 amcmw,
You are blind. Go back to your lyrics.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:20 amZooey
September 1st, 2006 at 2:21 amF’ck the wise Yale professorial “i know everything” crap. they don’t know dick. they only know that Bush and Kerry are skull and bones, and they ain’t no bs, and nobody wants to deal with that, do they. No No. Let’s not talk about the fact that the elite of both the Repugs and the Dems are members of the same feaking elitist party.
Bingo,
I do have to work tomorrow, but I’m taking the afternoon off. They’ll be ready for me to go by then, I think. :)
September 1st, 2006 at 2:22 amso you quote song lyrics, cmw…that’s very radical of you.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:22 amexcept for my lack of greatness.
Comment by Zooey — September 1, 2006 @ 2:19 am
Oh, I should just…yell at you! You are the way nature found to discover itself. Cosmic material turned into conscience. A perfect live project. Dont give that crappy line or else I will send you a big, strong hug.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:23 amzooey
September 1st, 2006 at 2:24 ami don’t give a f’ck what you think. you’re a waste. you lie around this blog posting your niceties. when the revolution comes, they’ll haul your ass out into the snow and pin a sign to it “I’m a toady for the faux progressives”, while you shout about how you’re an inside blogger on thinkprogress. Great laughs will be had by all around.
cmw,
Neither Bush, nor Kerry are going to be president in ‘08. You hate the world because some rich college boys make you feel excluded? Go back to your lyrics.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:25 amLet’s not talk about the fact that the elite of both the Repugs and the Dems are members of the same feaking elitist party.
Comment by cmw — September 1, 2006 @ 2:21 am
And then youre making sense, buddy!
September 1st, 2006 at 2:25 amprogressaures rex
September 1st, 2006 at 2:25 amyou try posting some lyrics
you can’t even type
Zooey
September 1st, 2006 at 2:26 amYou are projecting
I don’t hate the world, you do. Go back to sticking your head up your anal cavity
zooey
i don’t give a f’ck what you think. you’re a waste. you lie around this blog posting your niceties.Comment by cmw — September 1, 2006 @ 2:24 am
And then you just dropped the ball.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:26 amcmw,
If you don’t give a f*ck what I think, then get lost. Whiner.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:28 amI didn’t notice, but maybe it dropped on your big feet. like your big ego
September 1st, 2006 at 2:28 amumm, cmw,
September 1st, 2006 at 2:28 ammaybe you need to jump on over to ‘thinkpassiveaggressive’ – the blog where people lash out at others irrrationally. that’s not what we do here.
Zooey
September 1st, 2006 at 2:29 amI ain’t talking to you. You are not the blog, contrary to what your ego voice tells you.
man, i don’t think old jackson browne would be too proud of you…
September 1st, 2006 at 2:29 amComment by cmw — September 1, 2006 @ 2:28 am
September 1st, 2006 at 2:31 amSo I have a big ego now? And thats based on???
Trueblue’s post #166 requires a correction. It was State Senator Ben Stevens’ office which was raided, not Ted Stevens. Ben is the son of Ted Stevens, and he chose not to run for re-election in his district because of questions about how much money he was receiving from corporations for which he was consulting while still in elective office. Ben Stevens most likely did not break any laws, but Alaska’s laws in that area were weak until voters recently passed a campaign reform measure called Ballot Measure 1.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:31 amand the best thing you can do is accuse me of not being able to type?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:31 amespecially after misspelling my screen name?
progressaurus rex
maybe you need to do some research on what progressive means before you incorporate it in your stinka
and as far as “that’s not what we do here”
excuse me, but “that’s what you do very well here”
this blog has carefully honed it’s knives on just such interactions – irrationality cloaked in reason is a benchmark of this blog
September 1st, 2006 at 2:31 amWhat crawled up cmw’s tushie?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:32 amJuan, Prog Rex 7 Bingo,
It’s been lovely, but I’m not proud of my responses right now. I’m too tired for this. Thanks to you.
Goodnight.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:32 amprogressive faux rex
you are neither progressive nor a rex
maybe a wreck
September 1st, 2006 at 2:32 ambut not a rex
wow, you really are making some good points there, cmw.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:33 amg’night zooey!
September 1st, 2006 at 2:34 amit’s interesting that instead of engaging in conversation
you attack me
because you really don’t want to discuss the issues
just attack
you have only your own egos to defend
September 1st, 2006 at 2:34 amyou don’t care about the children who will be drafted to defend your narcissism
You are not the blog, contrary to what your ego voice tells you.
Comment by cmw — September 1, 2006 @ 2:29 am
She is pretty much the blog.
Goodnight.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:34 amComment by Zooey — September 1, 2006 @ 2:32 am
Take care, Great Zoo. :)
narcissists do nothing to help others
they only point to themselves
‘there are children on the wire”
September 1st, 2006 at 2:36 amthere is blood on the cannons
well, i believe you can look on up this thread and see a whole host of conversation that’s been going on for hours.
strangely, it ended when you got here.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:37 amzooey
you;re a coward
you attack me and when the going gets rough you feign weariness
well get lost
September 1st, 2006 at 2:37 amnobody needs you anyway
zooey – you, like all of us, are not important
progressive
September 1st, 2006 at 2:38 amit never surprises me that conversation ends when i say something
because the people on this blog have no guts to discuss the issues
they whither away at the first sign of debate
See you Prog. Thanks for the information on australians natives. Take care.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:39 amit’s just a coffee klatch of mid-western bores who know little except to parrot at command how awful bush is, but when pressed they have nothing original to say, and hate anyone who does.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:40 amwell, usually most of these threads have a point, cmw — and most of the people having conversations are discussing the point of the thread.
but, i’ll have a go… say something, in your own words, about “the issues”.
and no, just railing about elitist freaks and how they’re all the same party (which i happen to mostly agree with), isn’t exactly “the issues” as far as i’m concerned.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:42 amlater juan!
September 1st, 2006 at 2:42 amthank god they’ve gone
September 1st, 2006 at 2:42 amprogressive
September 1st, 2006 at 2:44 amno – most of these people have no point except to talk about how smart they are, and you agree with them, and then they tell you how smart you are – that is not debate
Watch out Hilary lovers, There’s a real threat from grassroots Democrats who don’t believe in war warmongering.
Salt Lake City, Utah mayor slams ‘dishonest, war-mongering’ Bush
September 1st, 2006 at 2:47 amMoveOn asks NY members to endorse Hilary or challenger Tasini
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/MoveOn_asks_New_York_members_to_0831.html
Vote Tasini
September 1st, 2006 at 2:50 amHilary has supported every war mongering measure that has come across her desk, and she won’t hesitate to draft my son if it suits her political agenda. She’s no different than Bush or Rumsfeld. She should fire herself.
well, have you actually read through the thread, cmw? it looks like debate to me…
and frankly, as someone who moved to another country because of my utter disdain for the warmongering, you sound a little preachy to me.
just curious, who would you vote for in 2008 for pres?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:50 ami wouldn’t vote for hillary.
Nice try “Tom” but you’re the one who pre-emptively denounced anyone who disagreed with your notion of the inherent preference of “whites” for Swedish neighbors as a delusional liar. It’s a bit late to start posing as an example of intellectual rectitude, much less as a credible arbiter of what constitutes “things as they really are.” You’re on record as rejecting any view contrary to your own out hand.
Given the tattered state of your credibility, I see no reason to accept any of your representations about yourself. However, even if you do have Asian wife , what exactly is that supposed to prove? Heinrich Himmler believed that the Japanese were a species of Aryan. People who equate their own prejudices with the natural order of the universe can rationalize any action they care to take.
In any case, none of this alters the central fact that every argument you have made here has been made previously by overt racists. You now claim that you merely wished to assert the right of nations to limit emigration according to perceived socio-political compatability. If that were so, you need never have raised such canards as the notion that youth gangs were a peculiarly hispanic phenomenon, nor would it have be necessary for you to advance a heirarchy European nationalities which, interestingly enough, corresponds with the heirarchy advanced by the theorists of “Aryan” supremacy. All you need have done was state plainly the principle that you now claim to have been advocating right along. Evidently that wasn’t sufficient for your purposes.
Perhaps this is all pure coincidence but I doubt it.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:50 amNight Zoob: ;)
September 1st, 2006 at 2:51 amprogressive
it never surprises me that conversation ends when i say something
because the people on this blog have no guts to discuss the issues
they whither away at the first sign of debate
Comment by cmw — September 1, 2006 @ 2:38 am
Then you obviously can’t read.
The people on this blog debate all day long. Unfortunately the right wing posters normally can’t take the heat, and magically disappear at the first sign of facts.
Maybe thats the source of your dissatisfaction.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:53 amP rex,
similarly, we should not accept our own citizens who are uneducated and impoverished!
Yes, absolutely, we need a Democratic administration and Congress to deal effectively with our educational crisis and work to improve the lot of the poor and middle class.
Of course, one of the reasons for the increasing poverty rate is that unchecked illegal immigration and outsourcing (opposite sides of the same corporate agenda) are driving Americans out of work or reducing their wages.
Many other countries, such as Australia, Canada and New Zealand, are quite open about it — to immigrate, you much have a lot of money and/or commit to creating a certain number of jobs. I think we should be just as hard-nosed, and stop treating immigration policy as an open-arms welfare program for the rest of the world, funded by America’s disappearing middle class. Like I said, Buchanan’s talk about race is a distraction, but the larger issue of our changing demographics deserves to be discussed honestly, though based on this discussion board, it will never happen.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:54 amProgressive rex
September 1st, 2006 at 3:01 amyou have mixed your nouns – i haven’t moved to another country, you have – and how nice for you – to sit back and lecture me who’s still here – so go freak yourself already – jeez – you can’t take the heat but you think you can still dictate what goes on in the kitchen – grow a member if you know what i mean
Tom S
YOu are so typical of teh Clinton Dems – “… of course, one of the reasons for the increasing poverty reate is that unchecked illegale…”" blah blah blah
the reason for increasing poverty – one of the reasons is that good ole Bill, bj loving bill sold out his constituency of poor folk – he helped to end welfare, but he did nothing to end poverty. He’s just a shill in the elitist bag of tricks.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:03 amTom S
September 1st, 2006 at 3:05 amLook at New Orleans Tom S. Look at it. Bill and Hilary did NOTHING to help. NOTHING. Don’t give me the bs that they care ’cause they’re democrats. That soap doesn’t sell here anymore. There’s a revolution afoot Tom, and your brand of Democrat just ain’t welcome anymore
We’re likin a Chavez type of democracy. A democracy of the “people of the color of the earth” as they now say in Mexico.
Oh but nobody on this blog would know anything about what is going on in Mexico, you’d think it was happening on Mars.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:08 amTom S
September 1st, 2006 at 3:09 amI think we should be hard nosed and treat you like the loafer you clearly on.
There’s nothing like white men to go on and on about everybody else’s worthlessness when what they are really talking about is their own utter uselessness. If only they would just accept themselves, the whole world would be alot more peaceful.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:10 amThat’s about the most profound thing i’ve said to date
September 1st, 2006 at 3:11 ami’d like to amend that statement as follows
There’s nothing like white men to go on and on about everybody else’s worthlessness when they are really just talking about their own sense of utter uselessness. If only they would just accept themselves, the whole world would be alot more peaceful.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:13 amIf only they could accept the Other, the alien element, the symbol of the unknown, the world would be alot better off.
Just ask the average woman, she knows all about it.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:14 amcongratulations everyone. great day of poo-slinging from right and left and what have you accomplished? Seems the SOLUTIONS are scarse to none.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:32 amcmw,
what do you mean, “dictate”?
by commenting on a blog, i’m somehow dictating?
i reckon i’ve learned more about being an american in the three years i’ve been away from it than i ever did when i lived in america. i’ll be moving back in october, as i mentioned upthread, i believe.
you did read the thread, didn’t you?
and one other thing, cmw… it takes a monster pair of balls to tell someone to “grow a pair” on the comments section of a blog from behind a screen name. it’s almost like your balls are so big, you can’t see around them. yep, those are huge, imaginary, internet balls you’ve got there.
hope you enjoy them.
September 1st, 2006 at 4:24 amre: 299 Pre Election Therapeutic Poo Slinging
congratulations everyone. great day of poo-slinging from right and left and what have you accomplished? Seems the SOLUTIONS are scarse to none.
Comment by revelhag — September 1, 2006 @ 3:32 am
I find the “Poo slinging” to be quite therapeutic in light of the atrocities the Reich Wing Buch Administration is committing as we speak. As for “SOLUTIONS”, we Dems have a November solution in mind followed by a subsequent impeachment solution. You like apples? How do you like them apples? ;)
September 1st, 2006 at 4:53 am#213, Yes Tom those thoughts are racist. Thinking that people have certain characteristics or behaviours not because of enviornment but because of some inbred genetics, that’s racism. Thinking Hispanics are underachieving in school because they are Hispanic genetically and Asains are overachieving is racist. Thinking we should avoid immigration of dark skinned people because they are genetically inferior and uneducated is racist. It’s ridiculous to restrict immigration to highly educated rich people and is only a cover for racism, because you’re talking about rich white people. Look at the list you posted in #131, you like rich white people, tolerate Asians as overachievers and bad mouth the hard working dark skinned peoples. You wrote it not us. By the way if you don’t think people can “immigrate” and adapt very well to the rules, education, culture, and “standards” of the country they join, take a very close look at those Northern Europeans you love so much, when my filthy Latin Roman ancestors found them rooting in the dirt, killing each other, worshiping trees they gave them their legal system, city planning, health systems, education, religion, philosophy, etc and today after 2000 years these “barbarians” are the penultimate civilizations on your list. I guess the Romans should have refused to give them citizenship or allowed them to immigrate into the empire.
September 1st, 2006 at 5:23 amBUCHANAN: No. What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.
Would Pat Buchanan be pro-immigration if he had been born in the US prior to the extermination of the Native American Indians or pro-extermination or both? I’m gonna hedge my bets and say both.
September 1st, 2006 at 5:41 amEveryone should ask Pat why he’s CHILDLESS!
September 1st, 2006 at 6:27 amwhites are genetically superior
completely wrong Black Afican genes are superior, thats why when black and white people have children the black gene is predominant…….. Did that fool ever learn anything in schoooool
September 1st, 2006 at 7:08 amComment by Wunjai Amoranan — September 1, 2006 @ 7:08 am
And racists exist on both sides. And are equally guilty.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:21 amre: 305 Not taking the race bait
So which white NeoCon race baiter troll are you> MA? Henderson?
September 1st, 2006 at 7:35 amPaul Krugman, in The Big Disconnect, tells us about how pundits are lying to us about strong the economy is. My regular readers may recall a post I’d written a couple of days ago about how my boss thinks the same thing. Paul Krugman pushes against this idea better than I ever can.
And, in perhaps his final article for the NY Times, Thomas Frank talks about not the rise of conservatism but the failure of liberalism.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:43 amChris Matthews and Imus are gonna start running out of guests. How can they continue to touch this guy?
September 1st, 2006 at 7:44 amI grew up in Alabama. Apparently Mr. Buchanan did not. I grew up where about 1/2 the people were Black. I will never forget my mother who came to visit me in the Heartland where I live now. We drove her around town explaining all the sites. After about a 1/2 hour she got my attention and asked in a bemused voice: “Where are all the Black people?” She had never before in here live been outside the deep south. For her a place where Blacks did not make up a large proportion of the people she interacted with everyday was a revelation.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:55 amPat is right. America was 90% white before Kennedy and his ilk changed the immigration demographics in 1965. Most crime is committed by non-white minorities. This fact cannot be denied. As Ayn Rand once said ” You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality”.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:09 amImmigration advocates ignore that bad conditions are a consequence of one-way inflows that exceed outflows. This one-way excess worsens conditions and reawakens all former conflicts. Ultimately, more genes in than out means that for each years cohort of immigrants, its genetic survival ratio asymptotes to zero. If population is level at 300mm and people live 75 years then deaths are 4mm per year. If 2mm flow in and population is level then births are 2mm.
Thus the per generation survival ratio is 2mm/4mm or 1/2. A generation is 25 years. Thus in 3 generations under these assumptions, the genetic survival ratio is down to 1/8 for any starting year, including any years cohort of immigrants. This means no one can win, and it becomes a fight of all against all.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:11 amre: 311 Immigration problem: blame lies squarely with Republicans waging class warfare against middle class.
If you want to place blame, look no farther than Republican lackey Ronald Reagan, Mr. Amnesty, and his NeoCon advisors. The Corporate NeoCon Republicans are so desperate to bust unions, destroy the middle class, and increase profit margins, they are willing to flood the country with illegal cheap labor to accomplish their objectives. The immigration issue is merely a symptom of Republicans waging class warfare and has nothing to do with immigrants or liberals.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:17 amRegarding illegal immigration, the Democrats are worse than the Republicans. The recent Senate bill on “comprehensive immigration reform” was passed by all Democrats and would give social security benefits to illegals and would have given amnesty to 12 to 20 million illegals.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:21 amWhere is Ayn Rand now?
-GSD
September 1st, 2006 at 8:27 amThe Friday funnies…
Lots going on in this crazy world ……
September 1st, 2006 at 8:33 amre: 314 Republicans vs Democrats on immigration
Regarding illegal immigration, the Democrats are worse than the Republicans. The recent Senate bill on “comprehensive immigration reform†was passed by all Democrats and would give social security benefits to illegals and would have given amnesty to 12 to 20 million illegals.
Comment by Ken — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
What Democrats? You mean all 5 of them? A handful of token DLC (wanna b Republican) Democrats means nothing working along side a Republican Controlled Senate and House. But we’ll turn that around in November. ;)
September 1st, 2006 at 8:35 amAs an American Indian, I am all for sending back the illegal aliens starting with Buchanan, Bush, and Coulter.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:40 amIt figures that the only smart Republican happens to also be a racist bastard.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:51 amSenate bill S.2611 was passed by most Democrats and several traitorous Republicans, including Specter and McCain. That is fact. Look it up.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:01 am#311 Ken: May we have a source for your claim that most crime is committed by non-whites. Or maybe it is just wishful speculation from your intolerant little soul.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:13 amGood post’s, I agree with Bonnie. That would mean my family would have to return to Ireland, but what the hay, I’ve alway’s wanted to see the country my ancesters came from.
One poster mentioned that the black’s were superior, I’m sure many mentioned that white’s were…Genetic dominate genes have nothing to do with who’s better..
I didn’t read all of these post’s thiis time because I am sick of the bile and bigotry still being played on to this day..
Fact is there is no superior race or tribe in my mind set. None….Because one persons genetic traits show up more in a byracial union than another has nothing at all to do with who is better. Dominate and recessive genes are at work nothing more….
In the case of take overs and dominance of one group of people over another is purly control and greed.. The white race is the most guilty of all….Did you all get that……Yes we the people are all part in parcel of world dominance in one form or other…It does not mean we are better or smarter only that we may of had the edge or more people to control the one’s we wanted to take over. We must stop this madness of people like Buchannon, O’lilie, Coulter, Pat Robertson and others…..Look at the actions of a person not their skin color….Look at bush/cheney/rummy/rice/robe and this administration, all war mongers and wackos tearing down america and the world. There is prime examples to look at.
How can any one truly think they are better than any one else..With the exception of the present administration which is pure evil and very wealthy none is better than any one else, only diffrent…….Granted most here have a higher IQ than this bunch in power and we the people so far have lost much in the past 5 year’s, but it is time to stop letting these bigot’s play with the publics mind sets and create divisions and hate…..Move forward not back….We are all brothers and sisters, some good, some bad in all tribes……..Blessings, pass them on….Peace of possible…
September 1st, 2006 at 9:22 amFurther to my racist friend at post# 311. Here is my source from the published documents on crime rates on the FBI website:
September 1st, 2006 at 9:25 amA review of the 2004 arrest data by race indicated that 70.8 percent of arrestees were white, 26.8 percent were black, and 2.4 percent were of other races (American Indian or Alaskan Native and Asian or Pacific Islander). Of all arrestees for violent crimes, 60.9 percent were white, 36.9 percent were black, and the remainder were of other races. Of all arrestees for property crimes, 69.3 percent were white, 28.2 percent were black and the remaining 2.5 percent were of other races. Whites were most commonly arrested for driving under the influence (893,212 arrests) and drug abuse violations (821,047 arrests).
cmw
You are no liberal and you do not have my respect. You preach hatred, destruction and fear, you just have a different target. Being a liberal is about solving problems, not settling vendettas, and I am a liberal. Yes, I am imperfect, I am far from being anyone’s discription of a kindly proffessor, and I am a frequent poster on this site. You attack the left for not being unreasonable, and you attack the right for not being reasonable. This is the path to civil war, and there is nothing civil about that.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:39 amIt certainly won’t happen as long as people such as yourself float overtly racist memes and then whine about “political correctness” when called on it. You haven’t demonstrated the elementary integrity to either withdraw or defend these toxic arguments. You want a serious discussion? Then drop the demagogic appeals to bigotry and address the real causes of illegal immigration. To whit, the economic and political interests in this country that profit by it and which, incidently, are escounced in the centers power.
I won’t hold my breath.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:47 amMexicans have dismal education and crime statistics, import them at your peril. If you want a Latin American style country with masses living in great poverty and a veneer of educated people keeping up the edifice, go on doing what you are doing. Congratulate yourselves as the ship continues to sink that at least you are not racists.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:49 amJohnny thunders
Guess what they said about the Irish. Bigot.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:55 amSorry, I noticed that the Mexcrement have low IQs – but it is a fact. Sending your kids to public schools in a Mexcrement neighborhood? I am..
September 1st, 2006 at 9:59 amHave you ever noticed the “diversity religion” is a feature only of European (or – soon to be formerly European) countries like the USA? Japanese, Chinese, Indians, never say “You know, there are too many dark haired, brown eyed people around here. We need a quota to get some blue-eyed blondes , or red haired Irish in here to make a rainbow coalition”.
Don’t let me hold you up on your road to extinction, though.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:12 amJohnny
Just taking the “Latino Imigrants are poopy-heads” view spouted by most Rightwingers:
September 1st, 2006 at 10:13 amMexicans aren’t stupid, after all they got across that border and managed to steal your jobs without speaking English. In other words, they offer better quality work then the citizens of a highly educated first world country, who actually speak the same language as their prospective employers. Kinda ouch really.
“In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.”
Darwin said the same thing in his book too. Small world. (shrugs)
September 1st, 2006 at 10:17 amPat Buchanan is right again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGHF-HNDaY
Do we want to live in a country that looks like a UN refugee center? There are millions of illegals from all types of countries in the USA now – nobody voted for that! They entered illegally and now they are staying
Where is the USA???
September 1st, 2006 at 10:22 amPat Buchanan’s book (I actually read it unlike most people here who claim that but they’re just parroting some websites that are lying) is a the most important book to have come out since the 1960s.
It is a wake-up call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGHF-HNDaY
September 1st, 2006 at 10:23 amThey got across the border only because the Demonrats want more impoverished clientel to vote Demon-ratic, and the big biz Repukes want more docile $5 labor at Tyson foods. The border is being left open on purpose.
They offer grunt labor at a third the going rate, of course unscrupulous employers want them. In fact, if you are in such a business you have to hire them, or you’ll be at a disadvantage.
My job has not been stolen, I’m actually doing pretty well, but thanks for thinking about me.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:24 amIf a war broke out with Mexico
How many of the millions of illegals in our country now will become a de facto guerrilla force inside our country killing Americans?
Do you really think they will kill fellow Mexicans, or will they wave the Mexican flag, speak spanish and help Mexico win the war?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGHF-HNDaY
September 1st, 2006 at 10:25 amIRI, speaking of Darwin – have you received your award yet? BTW, I laugh every time I think of you living in Nick Lampson’s district. Then again maybe your fellow repubs can win with a write in candidate – if they can find someone who’s name is ‘X’.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:27 amdid anyone actually finish the clip? Colmes asks buchanan if he meant he wants a country that is 89% white; and buchanan replies “no,no,no”
September 1st, 2006 at 10:27 amcome on!!!
did anyone actually finish the clip? Colmes asks buchanan if he meant he wants a country that is 89% white; and buchanan replies “no,no,noâ€
come on!!!
Comment by jt —
Come on – nobody cares about that. TP and left wing retards just want to have a chance to call Buchanan a racist etc. Even Bush supporters will jump on him because he is against Israel and the war in Iraq
September 1st, 2006 at 10:29 amJohnny thunders
So in other words they come over the border to do work which you guys don’t want to do at wages you would not accept? Boy, and here was me reading the rants and screeds of various rightwingers and thinking that “Shit they must be hiring these people to babysit billionare nymphomaniac supermodels” what with all of the hoohah you guys try to throw up around it. If you don’t want the job why give a shit about someone else getting it?
Oh, and “Demonrats?” Shit I predicted that one was going to be used years ago. You Rethuglicans are entirely too predictable.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:29 amIRI, speaking of Darwin – have you received your award yet? BTW, I laugh every time I think of you living in Nick Lampson’s district. Then again maybe your fellow repubs can win with a write in candidate – if they can find someone who’s name is ‘X’.
Comment by Quadrajet
You missed me didn’t you?
Yeppers, I’ll be voting for X. Pretty cool how our right to vote for the candidate of our choice got squashed isn’t it?
September 1st, 2006 at 10:32 amHow did this work get done before the Mexcrements came? How does it get done in Canada? Sweden?
The contempt of both established parties for the working man here is self evident.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:33 amdo you know why buchanan would be a great president?
September 1st, 2006 at 10:33 ambecause america is more important to him than popular opinion. i’m 27 and wish more people my age were like him
IRI, your right to vote hasn’t been squashed – you just have to write in the name of your candidate. Of course, that does present a problem in your district doesn’t it?
September 1st, 2006 at 10:35 amJT – that’s why it is so important for DNC lurkers like Brucie boy to attach labels to Pat so that people won’t try to analyze what he says and say – “You know, he’s right”.
Like Gallileo Gallelli said “But yet, it moves”. Even though the Catholic Church tried with all its might to stop it from moving.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:45 amOffenders
Of all arrestees for violent crimes, 60.9 percent were white, 36.9 percent were black, and the remainder were of other races.
Comment by tablogloid
From 2004 FBI Crime Report:
“The data for 2004 concerning the murders
for which the offenders were known
showed that 91.7 percent of the offenders
were adults and 8.3 percent were
juveniles. A breakdown of the data by
gender showed that 90.1 percent of the
offenders were male and 9.9 percent
were female. In homicides where the
race of the offender was known, 50.0
percent were black, 47.6 percent were
white, and 2.4 percent were other races.”
Two things should be noted, first blacks commit 50% of the murders and make up 12% of the population…..second, in the FBI crime statistics Hispanics are counted as white. I’d say Pat has a point.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:46 amI’d say Pat has a point.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — September 1, 2006 @ 10:46 am
you’re correct IRI….when he’s wearing his hood.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:51 amJohnny thunders
I don’t support the DNC. I believe America needs an independent Congress and Senate, because frankly both parties have passed their sell by dates.
I just think phrasing illegal immigration in racial terms is a sign of a man with something of a inferiority complex. If you want to handle illegal immigration treat it like it is, a law enforcement issue. Don’t just go after the immigrants, go after the guys who are hiring them, and enforce the law. Don’t make it a case of calling people stupid just because they come from another country, just enforce the law. Cut the emotional crap out of it and it becomes a lot less of a problem.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:54 amIRI, your right to vote hasn’t been squashed – you just have to write in the name of your candidate. Of course, that does present a problem in your district doesn’t it?
Comment by Quadrajet
Oh, I’ll think we’ll manage to beat that puss Lambson. This area is about 60% white and 30% Asian and everyone has enough education to know what a loser he is.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:55 amyou’re correct IRI….when he’s wearing his hood.
Comment by Quadrajet
He’s a Catholic. They wouldn’t let him in.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:56 am“just think phrasing illegal immigration in racial terms is a sign of a man with something of a inferiority complex.”
Sure, that is why their advocacy group is called “La Raza”. Who’s got the inferiority complex?
September 1st, 2006 at 10:58 am“If a war broke out with Mexico
How many of the millions of illegals in our country now will become a de facto guerrilla force inside our country killing Americans?
Do you really think they will kill fellow Mexicans, or will they wave the Mexican flag, speak spanish and help Mexico win the war?”
That’s called paranoia
September 1st, 2006 at 11:01 am[...] Maybe you’re bracing for rain from the remnants of Tropical Storm Ernesto, but I’d say the really foul weather is coming from an even more depressing tropical depression — Methane Storm Pat Buchanan, whose promotional rounds for his odious new anti-immigration book State of Emergency have already caused levels of bigotry to reach flood levels in the Garden State. [...]
September 1st, 2006 at 11:12 amI wouldn’t miss the mid-term elections in November for all the tea in China, that is if Pat Buchanan continues to be the mouthpiece for the “Big Tent” party. In fact I’m going to enjoy the GOP having one of the most spectacular flame-outs in political history so much I’m going to have a pig roast and a kegger in celebration. Took them 50 years to finally become the majority in Congress, and it’ll be 5,000 years before they are trusted with anything resembling authority again.
Thanks, Pat. Rock on.
September 1st, 2006 at 11:17 amRelax, were going back to 99% white as soon as the shooting starts.
September 1st, 2006 at 11:19 amThey offer grunt labor at a third the going rate, of course unscrupulous employers want them. In fact, if you are in such a business you have to hire them, or you’ll be at a disadvantage.
comment by Johnny thunders
So, no sacrifice by corporations and businesses for the U.S. No surprise
September 1st, 2006 at 11:20 amMan, there’s a lot of hate speech here. That’s you lot, not Pat.
Yeah, Repubs will get clobbered in Nov but not because you lefties have anything to offer. It will be because Dumb Dubya is pushing for open borders with Mehico and India.
2008 it all goes Repub again after San Fran Nancy get to House Leader for 2 years.
You read it here first.
September 1st, 2006 at 11:45 amHubbaHubba
2006 Democrats will get in, they will take both houses, and America will start moving towards getting out of iraq.
2007 Bush will be impeached, and forced to resign. If he does not he will be found guilty of violating the American consitution and relieved of his office to face war crimes. He has gotten away with breaking the law for so long that this will be the only way to stop him and keep America from becoming a third world dictatorship.
In the same year, massive investigations into corruption will be launched. The full extent of K Street will be revealed by the end of 2008, as will the full extent to which the Republicans have been tampering with America’s media. The race issue will be brought up throughout this year, until inevitably some idiot will go out and lynch someone. The Republicans will strive to avoid the blame but you will see the same race riots as hit the streets in the sixties.
2008 the Democrats will run Hillary Clinton because the Democrats have trusted their strategy over to out of touch idiots who couldn’t run themselves out of a paper bag. However, the Republicans will not take the presidency, instead Feingold running as a independent, will be president.
It will be termed a major upset, but the Democrats and the Republicans will lose a lot of seats to the Libertarians and the Greens. This is because nobody will trust the two old parties anymore and thus the same engines of change that got rid of the Whigs and the Tories will get rid of the Republicans and the Democrats.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:00 pmIt will be termed a major upset, but the Democrats and the Republicans will lose a lot of seats to the Libertarians and the Greens.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — September 1, 2006 @ 12:00 pm
Ain’t going to happen, you need district level party workers, contributions, and workers. And the Libertarians and Greens do not have that. That’s what Howard dean is revamping in the democratic party right now, it takes years to set that up and both Liberatrian and Green parties do not have a nation-wide grass roots organization large enough yet. If they started ramping up now, it would take 10 years to get to the point they were even ready to take on Dems and Repubs.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:07 pmyes prince philip here we in britian have a big problem were letting in every sorts even slitty eyes blacks pak,is and even germans this must stop god bles you pat bucannan
September 1st, 2006 at 12:10 pmIt’s a shame that hatred and bigotry still exists in this country.. Studies have shown the more educated and worldly you are, the least likely you are to be a bigot.
That’s because people who travel around the world eventually began to see that human beings, regardless of race have the same basic needs. The need to feel safe, loved and a sense of self-worth. Pat’s remarks don’t really shock me, but it’s rather sad to know that people like him call themselves Americans.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:19 pmI travel around the world all the time. I know that importing lots of low IQ Mexicans is a detriment to this country.
I also know that the “diversity as religion sickness” will quite likely bring on decades of misery in the US and Europe, and require a great expenditure of blood and treasure to cure, once the veil of madness is lifted.
Just as it happened in the former Soviet Union. Diversity will be to us what communism was to the Soviet Union. A fifty year curse.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:47 pmFingers crossed!
September 1st, 2006 at 1:00 pmRagnar Danneskold
Go read some historic sources. Your arguments aren’t even original, the same was said of the Irish, and just about any other population group that at one point moved into America. So far as I can see they all seem to have worked out fine.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:07 pmRagnar, what kind of non-White name is that? Go home. LOL!
Seriously, the US has been a diverse nation since colonial days.
We are the world’s melting pot and we take the worlds tired and poor, yearning to be free.
Ragnar, you’re an asshole.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:09 pmMexicans build your houses…………………
September 1st, 2006 at 1:42 pmJust as it happened in the former Soviet Union. Diversity will be to us what communism was to the Soviet Union. A fifty year curse.
Comment by Ragnar Danneskold — September 1, 2006 @ 12:47 pm
You don’t even know what communism is…….
September 1st, 2006 at 1:44 pmNot many of you actually paid any attention to what was said. What was said was “What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.â€
What Mr. Buchanan siad was that he liked an America that looked like Washington DC did when he was growing up–50% white & 50% black.
that doesn’t sound like a bigot to me!
September 1st, 2006 at 2:21 pmAh, the racist bastard speaks again… someone really needs to shut him up. And Fast.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:23 pmComment by Ragnar Danneskold — September 1, 2006 @ 12:47 pm
It’s curious. You bear the name of a… barbarian. The ones called “Ragnar” were pirates kidnappers and robbers (just ask any british citizen) for centuries after two Spaniards became emperors at Rome. Also, search where were born Lucius Anneus Seneca (Seneca the Elder), and his son, as two quick examples.
As I see, the Iberian Penninsula produced thinkers and philosphers while the “enlightened” nordic countries produced… bandits.
Wow. So much for nordic racial superiority.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:24 pmUh, he said he liked the country, not the city you silly fool. Which means he’s racist. He liked that the country was 89-90% white and NOT that the city was very diverse.
Got it? Or should I dumb it down further?
September 1st, 2006 at 2:35 pmOnce again the left wing immediatly jumps on an opportunity to take someone out of context in their insane effort to prove themselves right by sheer will.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:30 pm[...] Last night on Fox, Buchanan told Alan Colmes: “What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.” (Video)read more | digg story [...]
September 1st, 2006 at 3:44 pmDid you read the whole statement folks?
“I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.”
Anyone that can do math can tell you that where he grew up it was 50% white and 50% black. If every other person that he lived around was black then how would he survived being a racist?
Look into what it being said instead of hearing what you want to hear.
September 1st, 2006 at 4:02 pmSo, why is it ok for India to PASS LAWS saying that it is illegal to hire Americans in India, it’s ok for China and Mexico to keep their borders and economies closed to American workers, but somehow it’s not ok for Americans to want to keep our country closed and preserve our culture.
The fact of the matter is these other countries like Mexico, China, and India see America as a pot of gold waiting to be plundered. They hate us. They perceive us as owing them for British/Spanish colonization (which was good for them by the way).
4 million Americans cannot go flooding into Mexico or China every year and take whatever they want. The Mexicans and Chinese would never stand for it.
So why is it ok for MILLIONS of people from those countries to do the same to America. As the show mentioned, these people remain loyal to their home countries, not to America. All this crap about immigrants come here to help America. They come here to take from America.
America currently exports $165 billion in wages to other countries every year. How much longer before America will be broke?
The 90s and the internet opened up the ability for these other countries to see what the quality of life was like in America. Suddenly after sitting around for decades doing nothing, they suddenly decided they wanted the wealth that the American people created.
Taking what one group of people created and giving it to those who didn’t have to work for it is COMMUNISM.
The fact is each race has their own country. Indians have India, Chinese have China, Mexicans have Mexico. Except for whites and blacks who are the only legitimate races entitled to America.
When these other countries open up and allow mass immigration of Americans to their countries, then we will talk. Otherwise stop yelling about how America is.
September 1st, 2006 at 4:24 pmNo Americans Need Apply
Daniel Soong, who lost his programming job to Indian offshore companies, is willing to relocate to India. But Indian officials have told him they don’t hire Americans.
http://www.cio.com/archive/090103/people_sidebar_1.html
September 1st, 2006 at 4:26 pm“Taking what one group of people created and giving it to those who didn’t have to work for it is COMMUNISM.”
Have you read a book?!!! Obviously not. Here try with a little Marx . Actually who is highering mexicans for cheap labor, employers, and who are taking jobs overseas, employers. Read a book. What you are talking about is capitalism, that’s how it works, by exploitation. Have you taken economics 101, they explain it all there…………
September 1st, 2006 at 4:52 pm9.9 percent were female.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — September 1, 2006 @ 10:46 am
Thanks for validating my claim that testosterone is the problem…l
September 1st, 2006 at 4:56 pmAnd mexicans arent flooding into the country and taking everything. People who hire them are the problem, they are the ones paying 4 dollars an hour for building your house…………….. And people like you, who have no logic, are also the problem…………
September 1st, 2006 at 4:56 pm[...] Think Progress » Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’Buchanan told Alan Colmes: “What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.� Watch it: [...]
September 1st, 2006 at 4:59 pmStop shopping at the gap, walmart, kmart, and target as well, dumbass…………………………..
September 1st, 2006 at 5:12 pm[...] Last night on Fox, Buchanan told Alan Colmes: “What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.” (Video)read more | digg story [...]
September 1st, 2006 at 5:18 pm“Except for whites and blacks who are the only legitimate races entitled to America.”
Were all entitled to our ignorance, but goddamn, samir. You forgot Native Americans…………
September 1st, 2006 at 5:19 pm89% to 90% white? Does that sound right. I might be showing my ignorance, but I don’t believe America has ever been 89% to 90% white. I think Rebulicans are pining for a past that never existed.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:39 pm16 hospitals in L.A. County went bankrupt and had to be closed in 2004. The reason for it is the flood of Mexicans come to the U.S. and use LA’s hospitals’ ERs as primary care because they know it’s the law and can’t be denied at ERs. They get their 12 kids treated at ERs for free, never pay the bill and then walk away.
They think this is perfectly ok because after all, Whitey stole California from them. That’s what their Socialist gov’t in Mexico teaches them: they are poor because of whitey, not because of their own corrupt gov’t and their own laziness.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:15 pmInteresting to note that once “Tom’s” faux respectable pose was thoroughly trashed, the thread was immediately invaded by open cyber brownshirts.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:21 pmThe issue is not taking jobs overseas. It’s the FOUR to TEN MILLION *legal* “guest workers” who come into America to take jobs Americans created. Silicon Valley or IT jobs in particular.
Americans creates these great industries and make them boom, then suddenly the third world wants those jobs even though they didn’t have to lift a finger to create them.
Whether you are giving jobs, or wealth, or the means of production away from one group and giving it to another group is irrelevant. It’s still Communism. I call it job Communism.
Why didn’t we have this great rush of people before 1998? I’ll tell you why: it’s because American workers made the economy boom, the floodgates were opened in 1998 and MILLIONS of legal workers flooded in, almost all of them from the 3rd world and now industries like IT and Silicon Valley are at death’s door. We gave the jobs Americans created to millions of 3rd world workers and they couldn’t do the jobs. Silicon Valley is a wasteland. I know. I lived there for 14 years before being run out by the Indians and Chinese. They won’t hire Americans by the way which is why SV is collapsing.
Maybe YOU should read a book such as Gorbachev’s “Peristroika: New thinking for our country and our world”.
Communism hasn’t gone away, it’s just changed its tactcis: from that of direct military confrontation to one of “Reshaping the thinking of America”.
Ignoramus.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:24 pmGod is a Nihilist,
The Native Americans aren’t entitled to America because they were brabarians and slaughtering each other. Just as the Chinese are not entitled to China because they serve aborted babies in restaurants.
China was essentially conquered by Britain first, then Japan because of China’s corrupt and evil cultures. Even as far back as Emporer Qin they were barbarians. Examine history. Long term, barbarians fall and civilized people rule.
Any people which does not behave in a civilized manner does not deserve the land they live on – which is why America, based on Christianity, zoomed ahead of 4000-year old cultures in a mere 200 years. Connect the dots.
China is faltering despite it economic improvements mainly because its government is still corrupt and it is still a culture of corruption. That is why China is becoming so polluted that it cannot sustain human life anymore.
When the great uprising occurs in China because the land is uninhabitable, you can bet the Commie Chinese will come to take America from us rather than die out. If you do not value the land you live on it will be taken away and given to someone who does.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:30 pmWar will not break out with Mexico. War WILL break out with China which is planning an invasion through Mexico.
Bill Clinton gave control of the Panama Canal away to the Chinese who can now deny any American warship from entering in a time of war.
Furthermore, China is using all that Wal-Mart money we are giving them to amass troops and supplies in Central America and Mexcio. They will probably start with a nuclear attack on America’s citites, take out Washington, then send in a ground invasion through Mexico.
How many “immigrants” in America today will rise up with Americans and oppose the Chinese? Most will flee, recognizing that America no longer has anything to take and in fact, would have become a very dangerous place for them to stay. Take when the times are good, flee when they are asked to do anything for America.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:36 pmAmerica is a country of immigrants — other than the natives, who got screwed over when visitors dropped by and refused to leave. Does Buchanan know history? And since when is racism so openly accepted?
September 1st, 2006 at 11:57 pmI call it job Communism.
I call you ignorant…………………..You need to read a book!!!!!!!!!That’s still capitalism. Who paid for the workers and for the materials? The employer. He gets to pay the employee for whatever he wants. Who is he gonna pick, the white man asking for 20$ an hour, or the indian for 50 cents an hour? ……….
The Native Americans aren’t entitled to America because they were brabarians and slaughtering each other.
That’s why they helped the pilgrims, and what’s that holiday we celebrate during november……..???????
China was essentially conquered by Britain first, then Japan because of China’s corrupt and evil cultures. Even as far back as Emporer Qin they were barbarians. Examine history. Long term, barbarians fall and civilized people rule.
Are you serious………………???????!!!!!!!!!!!!! Suicide is quite popular these days…………And yes, you really know alot about communism, you read a book by a bureaucratic nazi. And yes, I consider my views to be libertarian communist. And you’re views must be the postermark for “head up my ass”. I’m going to ignore you, so if like talking to yourself…………
September 2nd, 2006 at 12:21 amHere are some people who can help you.
September 2nd, 2006 at 12:27 amThe Native Americans aren’t entitled to America because they were brabarians and slaughtering each other.
you are so very wrong.
as you will see if you read upthread (novel idea, i know), this idea has already been debunked. please take the time to read forgotten founders. it documents how benjamin franklin observed concepts in practice by the iroqois that had merely been theoretical as far as european political thought was concerned — suffrage for women, impeachable leaders, the concept that the leaders served the people (and not the other way around), freedom of expression in political and religious matters, respect for privacy — and subsequently introduced these concepts into our own founding fathers’ constitutional deliberations.
so these “barbarians” as you call them (only i spelled it correctly) were, in fact, crucially influential to the formation of our own government.
and as i recall, the american government happened to have a hand in much of that slaughtering of native americans. but no one would go so far as to call 19th century americans barbarians, would they?
oh, of course not. we were civilized. we even had a civil war. you know – where we slaughtered one another.
September 2nd, 2006 at 1:25 amGod is a Nihilist,
I have two books for your to read: “New Lies For Old” and “The Peristroika Deception”, both by former KGB agent Anatoly Goelyetsin. In those two books he describes the master plan the Soviets devised in 1958-1960. We are now in the final phase of that plan. It details economic communism and as well as the “reshaping” of American thinking to accept Communism without realizing it. And accepting it you are because you cannot see what is in front of your face.
If you think Communism only takes the forms of central government and military, you are ignorant. Communism today takes place in the boardrooms of America’s corproations because the communists have rightly realized that business has replaced the nation state as the most powerful organization in the modern world.
Globalism, outsourcing, guest workers, “weakth sharing”. It’s all communism under another name. That’s all it is.
When I see a country like India, China, or Russia produce a brand new industry and sell products from that industry to the west, I will believe that communism is really dead.
September 2nd, 2006 at 2:12 amOh and that holiday we celebrate in November is called Thanksgiving. That’s when the pilgrims gave thanks to God for seeing them safely to the new world. It’s a CHRISTIAN holiday started by Christians moron. Next you will be telling us the native Americans created it. What revisionist history school did you learn history in?
September 2nd, 2006 at 2:14 amprogressaurus rex,
Moe revisionist history. Don’t believe everything you’ve been taught in the leftist-controlled schools.
Discrediting the founders of America is a well-known Communist goal:
http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
You’re either a communist yourself, or else hopelessly brain washed. What year did you graduate high school.
Try buying some textbooks from before 1964 and see what you find there.
Open your eyes and think for yourself.
September 2nd, 2006 at 2:18 amWar in the interest of good is never uncivilized. The Civil War was fought to end slavery. But you’re probably one of those morons who can’t recognize the good that comes out of just wars. Read up on The Just War Theory, idiot.
As for the whitey slaughtering the barbarians, they deserved to be. Civilized man killing barbarians in order to create a great civilized nation is a good thing. There’s a difference between that and barbarians killing each other in order to continue barbarity.
Next you will be telling us that Cortes was wrong to send an army to kill the Aztecs when he learned that their leader was ripping the hearts out of live people and eating them.
September 2nd, 2006 at 2:21 amre: 379 MORE FEAR TERROR FEAR NONSENSE
War will not break out with Mexico. War WILL break out with China which is planning an invasion through Mexico.
Bill Clinton gave control of the Panama Canal away to the Chinese who can now deny any American warship from entering in a time of war.
Furthermore, China is using all that Wal-Mart money we are giving them to amass troops and supplies in Central America and Mexcio. They will probably start with a nuclear attack on America’s citites, take out Washington, then send in a ground invasion through Mexico.
How many “immigrants†in America today will rise up with Americans and oppose the Chinese? Most will flee, recognizing that America no longer has anything to take and in fact, would have become a very dangerous place for them to stay. Take when the times are good, flee when they are asked to do anything for America.
Comment by Chicken Little Samir — September 1, 2006 @ 9:36 pm
The above gibberish from Chicken Little is the same old Right Wing Scare tactic BS. Go crawl back under your bed and hide if you’re so terrified Chicken Little. I for one don’t succumb to all this Right Wing FEAR propaganda. Right Wing Cowardace is utterly nauseating. I’m more concerned about the freedoms I enjoy being stripped away from me because of all the FEAR rhetoric the Right Wingers have spewed since the days of Hitler in order to manipulate the mass to slaughter millions. How pathetic.
September 2nd, 2006 at 3:15 amsamir,
i personally haven’t witnessed anyone i know discrediting the founding fathers or the constitution — here or elsewhere. but the moment i do, i’ll either punch them in the throat or call the authorities and have them hauled off to a camp for 25 years hard labor. or maybe i’ll do both.
that is the recommended action, isn’t it, samir?
because we don’t want them chinese taking over! hell, this year alone they’re gonna spend as much as $65 billion on their military, and even though that’s only 15% of what the us is spending this year ($440 billion, not including iraq and afghanistan) — that’s still way too close for me!
let’s hope they give away no-bid contracts, just like the ones that rip off american taxpayers and short-change our soldiers. that way the commies are getting just as much of a raw deal as we are! i’d hate to think the commies were getting more bang for their buck. wouldn’t you, samir?
and one more thing, you commie lovers: every time you even think the word “communism”, a clown cries and a puppy is born with five legs. a freakish mutant puppy that will never be loved by anyone. that’s the damage you’re doing to this world.
September 2nd, 2006 at 4:31 am[...] Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’ (Judd @ Think Progress) “Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white. … In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.” (tags: pseudoscience demagoguery DNR) [...]
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:13 am[...] Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’ (Judd @ Think Progress) “Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white. … In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.” (tags: pseudoscience demagoguery DNR) [...]
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:13 am[...] Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’ (Judd @ Think Progress) “Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white. … In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.” (tags: pseudoscience demagoguery DNR) [...]
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:13 am[...] Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’ (Judd @ Think Progress) “Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white. … In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.” (tags: pseudoscience demagoguery DNR) [...]
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:13 amPat hates monorities because his Grandfather was gangraped by Big black dudes in 1886.
September 2nd, 2006 at 7:07 amPat hates minorities because his Grandfather was gangraped by Big black dudes in 1886.
September 2nd, 2006 at 7:08 amSamir is afraid. That is dangerous, because it allows him to convince himself that he can kill others and then call them the savages.
Samir is the poster child for why organized religion not only does not have a monopoly on morality, but proof that they have less.
Samir is visably a ver y misreable and sad person, so he wants everyone else to suffer more than he is to assuage his pain.
Samir should move to the Middle East and see how it feels to be the minority.
Samir and other ignornat and brain-washed “people” like him are a huge embarrassment to not only our country but the entire human race.
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:47 amThe Native Americans aren’t entitled to America because they were brabarians and slaughtering each other.
Does the fact that the Europeans fought wars amongst each other mean that they should be driven out of Europe?
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:53 am[...] Last night on Hannity & Colmes, Pat Buchanan had this to say: What I would like is — I’d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country. [...]
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:59 amAnyone who judges people by the chemical composition of their skin, and the amount of Melanin they have/don’t have is an idiot
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:00 amBy the way, there is very strong evidence to suggest that Jesus (if you believe he existed) in fact had brown/olive skin. He wasn’t white. The early Christians weren’t white either.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:02 amIn fact, your ancestors were at some point not white. They were brown/black/olive skinned. That includes you racist morons who think a person is the amount of Melanin in their skin.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:03 amHey Buchanan, I know some Indians who want the country they grew up in, you ignorant pig.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:37 amThe high demographic growth of the Third World is the result of social and economic forces. Rural societies with high levels of illiteracy have more children than advanced ones. The birth rate of Niger is 6 times higher than the german one. You see? Fifty years ago Minnesota was 4 times more populated than Arizona. Today Arizona is 15% more populated. Why? The andswer is: Mexico.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:39 amAmerica must procreate more and abort less. Besides, companies must hire americans, not foreigners. But it is difficult in the capitalist world. Capitalism is about money, not about patriotism.
Samir, you’re ignorant or idiot. India, China and Mexico or not trying to keep American workers out, they don’t have to try. Americans will never move there just so they could get paid 2$ a week!
Secondly, colonization was a blessing?! America has grown so wealthy because they ripped Africa blank!! I can get wealthy too if I have 20 black men working on my fields for nothing in return.
Don’t speak of communism if you don’t know what it looks like. You probably think Russia was communist in the cold war, but it wasn’t. It was totalitarianistic. The world has never seen real communism at work.
Last but not least. Inia is for Indians, Africa is for Africans and America is for….. ??? The Native Americans, you fool! The Spanish killers that ‘discovered’ America slaughtered all the people who were the only ones entitled to the land of America. You don’t know anything, but you still find the courage to post your stupidity here? Go grow up and don’t come back until after you get out of high school.
September 2nd, 2006 at 12:06 pmJericho,
September 2nd, 2006 at 12:28 pmThe African continent has been around far longer than the United States of
America.
In all that time it has not been able to get its act together.
America should be run for the benefit of the white majority,
with deference to the needs of the every needy minority.
(sigh) America proves itself as the most racist country in the world.
September 2nd, 2006 at 2:11 pmSamir is a patato eater, and not in the contents of being racist towards the Irish. He just eats lots of patatos…
September 2nd, 2006 at 2:25 pm290 Apples — glad to help with your therapy anytime but that is not the solution the US needs. It’s the same one conservatives used against Clinton’s “atrocities”. Seems like small fries now compared to what we are dealing with.
The fact is the world won’t do a “happily ever after” post-election time in November if we take everything back. What are we Democrats going to do –SIGNIFICANTLY — to change things for the better? Don’t fall into the trap of this thread. The dems need a REAL strategy with SOLUTIONS. Not poo-slinging–however theraputic it might be for you. We HAVE GOT to get beyond self-absorbed indignation and self-righteousness and into real CHANGE.
314 “Being a liberal is about solving problems, not settling vendettas,”
yesy YES! so let’s get past the poo-slinging on both sides and start making SOLUTIONS that will survive past November.
318 “Sorry, I noticed that the Mexcrement have low IQs – but it is a fact. Sending your kids to public schools in a Mexcrement neighborhood? I am.. Comment by Johnny thunders”
That comment is just plain disgusting and useless. But it seems hate is on the menu of both sides of this thread. I would prefer at least a SIDE ORDER of solutions — speaking as a socially liberal financially conservative Democrat not with a wingnut but a prayer for SOLUTIONS.
September 2nd, 2006 at 7:15 pmPerhaps the truth is upsetting you lefties. Seems you can find a link between mass immigration, racial “equality” and the social programs of the “Great Society” and the demise of morality, increase in drug use and crime since the 1960’s. Face it, the programs and social experimentation of the left have failed. Sucks being wrong, doesn’t it?
September 2nd, 2006 at 7:31 pm409 — Sucks being wrong, doesn’t it?
Just ask Bush Jr and Sr about the “war on drugs” They will tell you what it feels like to be wrong. Both sides seem to think throwing money at a problem will automatically fix it or at least make their lobbiests very happy and I have yet to see significant progress–solutions from either side. So maybe, terrormachine, your time would be better spent helping with solutions instead of wasting time mentally pleasuring yourself with a false sense of self-righteousness and nah-nah-nah-nah boo booing and work for a real fix it not just a hormonal fix of hate. Our candidates’ requirements for the coming elections should be very clear. Only those with REAL SOLUTIONS need apply.
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:01 pmThank God for Pat Buchanan. Close the borders.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:00 pmRevelhag, you’re correct on the war on drugs, but it also applies to other government entitlement programs that throw away tax payer money. I’m sure my views are totally opposite yours, since I believe that race & culture play into politics and government. Anyhow, glad I found this interesting site.It’s fun sometimes to see how others think. 83
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:04 pmI’d just like to reiterate. Your ancestors at some point were NOT WHITE. That includes you! I’m pointing at you. All of you. Including the white supremacist types.
I bet that really, really, really pisses off the stupid ignorant morons who think a human being is the amount of Melanin in their skin.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:14 pmYou do need to go back to sleep and clear your thought process. If you’re speaking of 1 million years ago, I can’t answer questions like that. Point is, we are different races and cultures now and now is the time in which we live. If you truly believe that the United States has not slipped and is fast becoming a third world nation, then you are wrong. Look at Brazil, and then imagine what our children will live in.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:20 pmTake your ass back to the place of your ancestors, Ireland or Scotland. Whereever the hell it is your family emanates from.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:21 pmHAHAHAHA….so much for intelligent debate here.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:27 pmYes NOW is the time we live in. Part of that reality NOW is that there are many different people who make up the USA, and immigration has ALWAYS been a part of that. You just shot yourself in the foot. The “third world” comment is much more complex than just skin pigmentation you moron. Included in that complexity are things like the current world economic system which props up a fatally flawed US economy (based on petrodollars)
There are plenty, and I mean, plenty of undereducated, lazy, fat, stupid white people in America (who curiously enough like to blame everyone else for their own condition)
Some of them sadly have access to the internet.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:41 pmLook at Brazil, and then imagine what our children will live in.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:59 pmI don’t remember blaming anyone for my problems, but maybe that’s because I’ve acquired an education, am able to support my family and am intelligent enough to see through the “feel good” liberal ideas of throwing money at societies ills. Pardon the hell out of me if I see a need to preserve different races and cultures, even if it is within our own borders. That doesn’t make one a moran or even a racist per se. I would tend to think people like you are the one’s with the problem since you seem to feel that minorites and other “oppressed” people cannot live without your help or entitlement programs.
You are correct about our economy. We are indebted to Chinese banks and continue to borrow to support said social programs and wars which are misguided and unneeded. I guess China might take us over without firing a shot. Maybe isolationism is a 1920’s era dinosaur, but I’m willing to stop sending our troops overseas to fight a war to “free” a people who could care less about freedom.
And there are plenty of idiots in the White race……..they need to stop breeding also.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:00 pmYou’re blaming that on race, and you’re the one asking for intelligent debate. First, you need to input some logic, and maybe you’ll get a intelligent response back………..Alot of that has to do with with the problems of a corrupt corporate socialist government, which only supports the rich and not the poor. I’ve been to Brazil, and you need to get out of your trailer. If you support international trade agreements and you do not support taxing businesses who hire illegals, you’re a part of the problem………………………..Like I said before. Stop shopping at Walmart, idiot……….And go to college………And then maybe you can come back and say something…
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:00 pm#419 – “I would tend to think people like you are the one’s with the problem since you seem to feel that minorites and other “oppressed†people cannot live without your help or entitlement programs.”
I said no such thing and for you to purport to such simply reflects your own “moran” tendency.
More misdirection and disinformation about the economic situation which you have NO understanding about. Here look I’ll help you out. Look up how petrodollars and the world oil/economy works, and how it is effectively RIGGED to prop up a bankrupt and broken US model. Who is to blame for that? Not immigrants. Not people who have more melanin in their skin than you.
As for wars, typically almost all of the ones the US has been involved in, including current occupations have NOTHING to do with freedom and democracy for others.
Fact is folks like you ARE uneducated, don’t really know all that much about anything and psychologically project your own inadequacies, problems and whatever else is the issue on others. Based on such trivial things as what colour someone has for skin.
Incidently, “culture” is irrelevent of skin colour. I know plenty of Americans who like to eat McDonalds and watch Hollywood movies, and they don’t have white skin. What exactly is “white” culture anyway? Especially in America, which is based off a whole load of different immigrants, spanish, french, dutch, english, african (unless you’ve magically forgotten the slave era), chinese, irish, german and so forth.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:11 pmPat Buchenwald reveals his true “colours”.
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:45 am412 – tm, you might be surprised by what we have in common. I, too, am flabbergasted by the money spent on some social “experiments” that had no basis or sound proof of possible success before their implementations. money often pocketed or never applied to the actual programs they were suppose to support. Just look at our educational structures in big cities or the money “lost” for Katrina and in various “wars-on-somethings”.
politicians on both sides seem to feel that throwing big money at big problems will make the problems fix themselves. they think the only way to appease the masses is to throw lots of dollars around that never seem to reach the ground while frightening the cr*p out of us. both sides do this because we have made it that easy for them.
election years bring the fear speeches and the hateful diatribes and the finger pointing and the paranoia. many of us cave to these antics because it is easy to start with the witty jabs and pokes and snarls of egos and moral compases going every-which-way but toward a higher ground.
as long as we are kept at far corners and unable to come together as a people of this nation –as long as we remain polarized and unable to find that higher ground together, we will be ineffective as a people for the people and by the people. threads like this one make this abundantly clear.
a beginning solution may be to acknowledge where we are and move forward. hateful speech should have NO PLACE and NO PART in this path. question the antics of those who would encourage and perpetuate such things. question those who wish for a false yesterday. question the moral compass of those politicians who would alienate a race or a gender or a religion or a political group in order to stir fear or hatred in their supporters. know that these are smoke screens to keep us polarized and unable to see our fellow countrymen on the other side.
tm, we must find common ground with each other, standing as equals with RESPECT and openness. and a willingness for true debate and negotiation. only then when we are on that higher ground can we look to our politicians, our leaders and demand proof of success. demand they look at successful models for change and that their ‘think tanks’ are not used to subdue us with fear but to hold us up high as a nation, together, united.
this country is constantly changing and that is not a bad thing. it can bring about excellence — tipping scales from one side to the other can bring a living balance. 1920-asaurs mentality might lead one to some false sense of past stability or to stagnation — UNLESS one remembers that in the 1920’s our grandmothers and great-grandmothers chained themselves to trees to earn us the right to vote. I could vote when I turned 18. My grandmother did not vote until she was in her twenties. I was able to attend college-if things had remained as they were in the 20’s I would not have had the opportunity to make the salary I have and pay taxes and use my creativity to bring joy to others. In the 1960’s my husband might not have gone to college. Near the end of the twentieth century he did and he was offered a job he probably would not have been considered for in 1960. Because his diversity was appreciated he got his job that had to do with his background. He proved himself and now works in an area at his job that focuses on his strengths with negotiations. we have never believed in handouts but we do believe that everyone who strives for success should be given the chance.
You know every human being has something in common with another– that need to count for something. some say it is a need for happiness or freedom from suffering. and everything that we do shapes us toward some higher purpose. let’s find that purpose together as a nation. let’s cut out the cr*p and smoke screens and look for the higher ground. don’t let the politicans toss out the easy-fix fear card. we are Americans. we deserve better, together.
September 3rd, 2006 at 3:18 amI’ve made an observation. Pat and his supporting rednecks never actually define what they mean by White culture
So I’d like from any of the “white is right” posse to list 10 (ten) things which describe what is White culture?
Please note things related to Christianity do not count because there are a lot of White people who are not Christian, either they don’t believe in it or are another religion so, no Christian points allowed. The floor is yours gentlemen, eagerly awaiting your response…
September 3rd, 2006 at 7:41 amSo uhm…. any takers?
September 3rd, 2006 at 1:39 pmWhat’s that noise, is it the sound of crickets chirping? You know, if these morons can’t even provide a simple answer to what is White culture as requested, how on earth can they be promoting it and defending this buffoon?
“So what is it exactly you’re talking about?” “uhhh… I dunno”. Well, thanks for trying anyway.
September 3rd, 2006 at 5:44 pmPerhaps he does hate blacks and hispanics, I don’t know. Or perhaps he is alarmed by the fact that the single biggest factor when determining the levels of violent crime for any area in the states is the number of blacks and hispanics that live there. With regard to blacks, you can apply the same simple equation to anyplace in the world. Maybe he is ‘racist’, but that does not change the fact he has valid points.
September 3rd, 2006 at 5:54 pmGo back to sleep,
Here you go:
1. In contrast to ‘white’ culture, Black and especially Latino males tend to be more ‘macho’, more easily offended by perceived insults, more territorial, and quicker to resort to violence when they feel their ‘honor’ is slighted. Perhaps this partly explains the higher rates of violent crime among these minorities.
2. White culture (as well as Asian and Jewish culture) places a greater emphasis on the importance of higher education than black or Latino culture. Educators have observed that Black or Latino students who study hard are commonly harassed by their peers and accused of ‘trying to be white’. This is considered a serious impediment to minority academic achievement.
3. The Black and Latino cultures have a different and distinct accent, syntax, and slang, which are rigorously enforced in younger peer groups. Younger Blacks and Latinos who speak gramatically correct, unaccented English are often accused by their peers of trying to sound ‘white’ and are ostracized or punished until they conform. This is an obstacle to both academic achievement and future employment.
4. Latinos in particular tend to resolve interpersonal conflict by seeking security and protection within a larger group (sometimes referred to as a ‘gang’). White Americans tend to believe more in the ideal of a lone man settling matters mano a mano, a la High Noon, the Lone Ranger, Die Hard, etc., and if this isn’t feasible, they tend to prefer to resolve disputes through ‘proper channels’ by calling the police or hiring a lawyer, while Latinos, particularly illegal immigrants, are more reluctant to seek police assistance for their problems or to utilize the legal system.
5. ‘Whites’ are more likely to volunteer for civic organizations, the PTA, etc., and are more likely to vote, than Latinos. For example, in my children’s elementary school, which was 75% Latino, all but two of the 12 or so PTA members were white. The same holds true for a whole range of city boards and commissions in my town. On my son’s soccer team, the Mexican immigrant coach complained to me bitterly about the behavior of the parents of the Mexican players — a couple of them drank beer and argued with refs during games, they seldom volunteered to show up and help out at practice like the white parents did, they complained about paying the monthly fees even though most could easily afford them, etc. He once concluded shamefacedly, ‘No wonder we (i.e. Mexicans) are a minority’. I know this is anecdotal and proves nothing by itself, but I think it reflects a larger truth. Arriving only recently from a country with a history of corrupt, dictatorial, elitist and repressive leaders and institutions, it is quite natural that Mexicans have a different attitude toward authority and volunteer service than Americans, who consider themselves ‘citizens’ of ‘their’ nation, which their ancestors created through hard work and sacrifice (or at least so the story goes).
6. Latino culture (naturally influenced by Catholicism) places greater emphasis than ‘white’ culture as a whole on having large families. Almost all of the population growth seen in the US is attributable to immigration and the high birth rates of immigrants. This population growth has negative implications in a number of areas, including resource use, crime rates, quality of life, employment trends and the like.
7. Partly as a result of the above, and partly for cultural reasons, Latino mothers are less likely to be employed in full-time jobs than ‘white’ mothers. This reduces the average family income of Latino families still further relative to ‘white’ families.
This was just off the top of my head — with a little research, I could go on, but I don’t think there’s any purpose. I doubt you’re going to address these points anyway, other than to call me ‘racist’ for daring to state in black and white (joke, get it?) the things that everyone knows to be true but is too cowed by the ‘R’ word to say. If you have statistical evidence that refutes anything I’ve said, I’d love to see it, but calling me or anyone else racist won’t change things.
Now obviously, even if I am right about the general cultural traits described above, they means nothing on an individual level. The Mexican immigrant soccer coach I mentioned (as well as the one black woman on my kids’ PTA) is one of the most impressive people I have ever met. If all illegal immigrants, and all of their kids, could be guaranteed to be like him I wouldn’t be so concerned about the present situation. But that’s not the case, and there’s no point kidding ourselves about it.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:29 amTom S. nice of you to predimiss my response with the “I doubt you’re going to address them, and you’ll call me racist line” – that’s the same logic as calling someone antisemite because they are critical of (some) of the policies of Israel.
Let’s see. The first thing that stands out notably is that several of your points are not really describing White culture but you’re instead making direct comparisons (and assumptions) about others. That is NOT answering the question. For example, if asked to describe an Orange, it is perfectly possible to describe an Orange without making any mention of Apples or Bananas.
1 – “macho” and “honor” are highly subjective and can’t be described as a cultural thing. If anything it could be describing “American” which many people typically associate with having a strong sense of patriotism, being easily insulted and being “macho” (note again, defining by comparison to someone else)
2 – greater emphasis on education. Highly questionable, as there are also quite a few undereducated/uneducated White people (you’ve heard the phrases “rednecks” and “trailer park trash” bandied about) – not to mention a significant percent of White people do not believe in evolution, believe the rapture is coming, know nothing beyond their little enclave in the US etc. (note again, defining by comparison to someone else)
3 – (note again, this time you even start off describing in your view something else) Accent is NOT culture. Accent is regional variation in the sounds of voices for example someone from California has a different accent to someone from Alabama, but they may both live in New York and share the same culture. They may even both be, for example, Japanese and have a distinctly Japanese culture but still have different accents. Slang and Syntax, that’s arguable as that varies from region to region as well irrespective.
4 – (note again, defining by something else) Assuming it’s true, which it isn’t, ashuman beings are by nature tribal so people do hang out in groups, including White Americans heck just look at the forums for proof of everyone grouping up. It could arguably be down to matters of trust/faith in authority. Especially if the establishment is considered as biased, people will not approach it or be less inclined to do so.
5 – Even if true, only the minority of Whites volunteer. Therefore it’s hardly a cultural thing. (note again…)
6 – Religion doesn’t qualify as something cultural (for reasons explained previously on account of many are not religious, yet maintain the culture). Quite aside from which there are a LOT of White Catholics too, and they too may also have large families. So it’s arguably a shared trait for Catholics, as opposed to a White culture thing. (same note as previous ones)
7 – Employment prospects are not “White culture”. (note as previous)
Ok look, I can see you’ve tried and I do appreciate that, but as you can see you’ve not really explained what is White culture. The reason I’ve put the “note” in every point: because how would you define White culture if there were only White people in America? It’s perfectly possible to define, say, Japanese culture, without having to compare and put down something else… which is really what you’re doing here, disingeniously. Start over, and without mentioning other peoples try to define it then. Not so easy is it?
Your “conclusion” simply backs up that you’ve not really explained White culture but instead used it as an excuse to denigrate others who are non-white. Most of your “points about what is White culture” prove that. I could just as easily say “well Tom, there is a huge percent of White Americans who are have a poor education, a large percent who are obese, significant numbers who are an embarrassment. But I know some who are in shape, well educated, hold down great jobs; if only all Whites were like that I wouldn’t be concerned about the present situation. But that’s not the case, and there’s no point kidding ourselves about it.”
You even point out you have to research it, which you’ve not done enough of anyway.
So overall, you’ve not only not answered the question but you’ve (once again as typically Pat would do) shown only your interest in putting down others. That my friend, is a very poor reflection on the person – it says “I can’t stand on my own two feet, without stepping on someone else”
September 4th, 2006 at 3:45 am#404 Last but not least. Inia is for Indians, Africa is for Africans and America is for….. ??? The Native Americans, you fool! The Spanish killers that ‘discovered’ America slaughtered all the people who were the only ones entitled to the land of America. You don’t know anything, but you still find the courage to post your stupidity here? Go grow up and don’t come back until after you get out of high school.
Comment by Jericho — September 2, 2006 @ 12:06 pm
Not that I’m proud of the killings made by ancient Spaniards in the Americas, but just think of some actual facts: Where are the higher number of native americans living today? USA or Center and South America? The USA history of the XVI to the XIX century is a long series of killings of native americans, and consecutibe pact breachings by the USA government, to grab yard after yard of native american land, and moving them to filthy reservations in swamps and deserts…
USA people is too fond of stereotypes about ancient Spaniards, and are totally blind to the same or worse facts done by his ancestors…
September 4th, 2006 at 7:17 amPat Buchanan is right. The white race seems to be the only race in the world that seems able to build civilized countries. Look at both Africa and South America, third world societies run by ruthless despots. Look at the inner cities where minorities are dominant, underperforming schools and high crime rates.
If Mexicans could build a free society and prosperous society on there own they wouldn’t be fleeing up here in the first place.
The only other race that may be able to produce civilized societies are the east asians which may become our greatest rivals.
The U.S needs to stay white if it wishes to remain free and civilized.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:05 am#431. World War 1 and World War 2. Brought to you by the “only race in the world that seems to able to build civilized countries.”
You also neglect to mention these “civilized countries” were built on genocide, slaughter and slavery. Not to mention the mess left behind from various Empires of the White Man.
I guess you’ve no clue why the area around current day Iraq is refered to by historians as “the cradle of civilization”
September 4th, 2006 at 9:17 amhanging right out there like a burning cross…and he doesn’t even know it. i would feel better if i could believe buchanan and his ilk were evil but intelligent. alas we must settle for simply evil.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:06 amGo back to sleep,
You did exactly what I suspected you would, which was take recouse to sophistry, or what Japanese call ‘fart logic’, and anecdotal evidence. I don’t think you even believe most of what you’re saying. Really. I mean, there’s no such thing as Latin machismo? The statistical disparity in college and advanced degrees between whites, Asians and Jews on the one hand and blacks and Hispanics on the other is meaningless, because some percentage of whites are white trash? You’ve got to be kidding.
Of course speaking a linguistically distinct version of English from the dominant society, especially during school years, and enforcing conformity to such language, is part of the culture. What else is it? Incidentally, there is such a thing as ‘Southern’ white culture too, with well-accepted mores and values in addition to the accent. Anyone who’s lived there can tell you this (everyone I know has), but I suppose you would deny this too.
All of your other points are easily refuted as well. Declining birthrate is occurring in nearly all predominantly white countries, even white Catholic countries like France, and is much more a function of the economic success of the society as a whole, the resulting greater economic prospects for women, the declining need to have children for economic security, and the greater acceptance of women’s presence in the full-time work force. That doesn’t make it any less part of the ‘culture’. Every cultural development has a reason for coming into being. Once it does, it becomes part of the culture.
Like you say, I appreciate that you tried, but you try too hard. Nitpicking peripheral points, refusing to acknowledge even my most obvious and unassailable arguments, trying to refute broad overall trends with statistically insignificant exceptions, and going so far as to equate individual contributors to impersonal, anonymous message boards with gangbangers shows me you don’t have much left. In fact, from everything you’ve said, basically your position is that culture as I’ve defined it (i.e., common beliefs, attitudes and practices across a statistically significant percentage of persons sharing the same nationality or ethnic group) doesn’t exist. If you really believe that, I would suggest you don’t become a social scientist.
I will leave it for others to go where even I don’t want to go, i.e., the fact that whites institutionalized but also abolished slavery, were responsible for the Reformation, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, created the U.N. and every other major international institution devoted to promoting world stability and progress (though the U.N. as an institution is now a bloated, patronage-based employment program for politically connected Third World elites, and has become largely irrelevant), and run all of the major international environmental and public-service NGOs, not to mention the vastly different quality of life, degree of scientific advancement and average educational level in white countries than in non-white countries. I don’t see how you can have an honest discussion about race without acknowledging these facts. They’re the proverbial 800-pound elephant in the drawing room that no one in polite society wants to admit the presence of. I do give Buchanan credit for trying, though I probably disagree with him on 95% of his politics.
Of course, saying ‘we’re better’ isn’t going to make the world a better place. But my agenda isn’t so grandiose — all I’m saying here is, stopping the unending flow of millions of impoverished, uneducated, high-birthrate Mexicans into the US will make the US a better place. To call this racist is idiotic in my opinion, but there it is.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pmTom S. I think you missed what I’ve said: all your points were basically putting down some others.
Let me put it to you again: if you can answer the question as to what is White culture, without tying it to religion or doing so at the expense of other peoples, then do so.
Imagine, if you will, the USA only had White people and nobody else for you to put down.
I’m asking What Is White Culture? Not what it isn’t, or what other non-white things are compared to it. Just White Culture. By itself.
The U.N etc. are not CULTURE. They are achievements/inventions. Just like certain non-white people invented paper, mathematics, ancient battle tactics. Those are inventions and achievements, not the definition of who a people are. Anyone could have come up with those things.
You want to say I’m using “fart logic” and whatever, yet you, like Pat and co. cannot define What Is White Culture? without resorting to referencing other peoples in a negative light.
I suppose if I asked you to describe an Orange, you’d start describing a Banana and tell me that’s not what an Orange is?
You’d like to dismiss it as fart logic and sophistry, yet I have asked a very clear, very simple question, which apparently you cannot answer without bringing others into it (to put them down)
Do you see the problem here?
So I’ll ask again, please define what is White culture, preferably in 10 points. Not what you think Latino culture is. Not what you think Black culture is. Not what you think Mexican culture is. And certainly not how they compare to White culture. Because you won’t answer what exactly White Culture is to begin with. So, just for the sake of debate, imagine there are no non-whites in America. Now without resorting to what you’ve done already, define White Culture
September 4th, 2006 at 1:47 pmI should clarify also I mean specifically White people who live in the USA, as of course White people in other parts of the world have different cultures.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:59 pmYes, I consider that sophistry, because by definition, any discussion of ‘white’ culture entails an implicit comparison with ‘non-white’ cultures. If I’m comparing culture A and culture B, obviously moreof something regarding culture A means less of that someting regarding culture B. I know you’re smart enough to understand this, so I can only conclude you are playing semantic games in order to avoid directly addressing what I’m saying.
In other words, whether you express a difference between cultures in a ‘positive’ way or a ‘negative’ way, it is the difference between the cultures that is the point, and phrasing the sentence as ‘whites are generally less likely to think or do X’ or ‘Latinos are generally more likely to do or think X’ makes no difference. Wherever I have made reference to a particular trait regarding black or Latino culture, assume that I have added that white culture is characterized by the relative absence of that trait. Does that change anything? Is this really your strongest argument?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:06 pmI’ll give my thoughts on the matter while I’m here (and while you think about how to define White culture without doing so at the expense of others)
Is there such a thing as White culture in America? Quite probably, no. Historically, Whites descended from the English, Dutch, Irish, German people etc. all of whom have quite different long established cultures spanning thousands of years. The American White, therefore descended from what can only be described as an amalgamation of various different cultures.
The nation America, is and always has been all about immigration from all over the globe. Historical records show that quite clearly. Not only is it, by comparison to most other nations, very young, but it has been a mixture pretty much right from the start. As such there is no “pure” White American, as there never really has been. Furthermore the White American really has nothing (of note) that is original to himself as such.
Example: many Europeans, including many White Europeans, after visiting the USA invariably note the lack of any distinct culture. Even less so will they note any particular White American culture, except possibly things like fierce bordering on obsessive patriotism (just an example)
White American culture is based essentially off merging and accumulation, it’s own distinctness is quite lacking. It’s quite bland by and large. Remember, European White Culture is NOT American White Culture. As you pointed out (and which I DO read, much as you’d like to try to dismiss me) there are some regional variations e.g. southern/californian etc. yet overall it’s actually quite weak, if non-existant.
I put it to you there, that is in fact why most (if not all) White Americans have a really hard time trying to define just what is White Culture. I should add I can’t answer the question myself, at least I’m not afraid to admit it, and I don’t define myself by how I think others are worse than me in some way…
September 4th, 2006 at 2:18 pmRegarding your point 436 – that is easily proved false. There are, for example, tribes in certain rainforests which have never had contact with other cultures. Yet they have their very own, very distinct culture and cultural traits.
Please stop trying to define what White is, in the context of how you think others are worse (or better) as that is NOT answering the question, no matter how you try to justify it.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:20 pmPost 437 even.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:23 pmWorse or better, ‘at the expense of’, ‘putdowns’, etc. are your terms, not mine — I’m just giving you differences. You can draw your own value judgments, I’ll draw mine. You wanted examples, I gave them to you. But I’m not going to play your pointless game of defining ‘white’ culture in the abstract. It’s only relevant by comparison to other cultures, especially in the context of this discussion.
White Western European cultures may not be 100% identical to white American culture (duh — so what? since even identical twins aren’t 100% identical, does that mean they’re no more similar any any two random people? again, give me a break), but in my experience (based on European travel and long-term friendships with a number of expatriate Europeans), they are more similar to dominant white American culture (which after all is an amalgam of white European cultures, as you say) than is either Latino or black American culture.
I really don’t think you’re being intellectually honest here, so I think I’ll be signing off. I think your heart’s in the right place, but there’s no way we can have an intelligent debate if you don’t even acknowledge the existence of a white American culture, i.e., a set of attitudes, assumptions, beliefs and customs that is generally (not universally, but generally) shared by white Americans. Again, if that is what you think, more power to you, but for me, you might as well say you don’t believe in gravity, and I don’t see any point in going further. Cheers.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:04 pmThose are my terms but your sentiments, as repeatedly displayed in previous posts.
Alright no problem. My final thought to you is this: as you can seemingly only define White American culture by what is “lacking” in other cultures, what happens to that “White culture” when there are no others for you to compare against? I’ll tell you what – it ceases to exist. The bottom line is you’re the only one out of all the others here who has even attempted to answer the question, and you can only do so by effectively pointing out the negative aspects of other cultures.
You can’t deny that, as almost all of your points are in one way or another reflecting only on those aspects. You just can’t do it can you? Let’s say Pat and chums get their wish, that there are only (or very nearly) only White Americans. By removing the other cultures you’ve also removed your way of “defining” what is White Culture; you just can’t answer otherwise. In the absence of non-white people to put down, you are at a loss how to define it. It exists only in so far as other cultures are in the USA for you to point at in a largely negative capacity. Take away those other cultures and you can’t stand on your own two feet.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:20 pmWe can’t undo what has been done in the past. All races have been responsible for their fair share of attrocities. What we need now is a seperation of obviously hostile cultures. The U.S. government should get out of other peoples countries and other people ie non-white should get out of the U.S.
September 5th, 2006 at 1:13 pmhttp://www.kolesqueeste.nl/images/go_back_home.jpg
September 6th, 2006 at 6:40 am[...] Last night on Fox, Buchanan told Alan Colmes: “What I would like is — I �d like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.” (Video)read more | digg story Digg this [...]
September 8th, 2006 at 3:10 am[...] Buchanan: ‘The Country I Grew Up In’ Was ‘89 or 90 Percent White. I Like That Country’ (Judd @ Think Progress) “Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Buchanan explained that he’s motivated by his desire to keep the country overwhelmingly white. … In his book, Buchanan supports the idea that whites are genetically superior to minorities.†(tags: DNR demagoguery pseudoscience) [...]
September 11th, 2006 at 10:55 amYou buttheads leave Pat alone. You stupid idiots label someone a racist before you even hear them out!
November 26th, 2006 at 11:11 pmI am a 29 year old racist white man to be honest I think the America would be a better place. I will never change what I have dealt with in my past there no reason. My self I grew up in a black community no thanks I would never go back.
February 8th, 2007 at 7:39 am