Alright no problem. My final thought to you is this: as you can seemingly only define White American culture by what is “lacking” in other cultures, what happens to that “White culture” when there are no others for you to compare against? I’ll tell you what – it ceases to exist. The bottom line is you’re the only one out of all the others here who has even attempted to answer the question, and you can only do so by effectively pointing out the negative aspects of other cultures.

You can’t deny that, as almost all of your points are in one way or another reflecting only on those aspects. You just can’t do it can you? Let’s say Pat and chums get their wish, that there are only (or very nearly) only White Americans. By removing the other cultures you’ve also removed your way of “defining” what is White Culture; you just can’t answer otherwise. In the absence of non-white people to put down, you are at a loss how to define it. It exists only in so far as other cultures are in the USA for you to point at in a largely negative capacity. Take away those other cultures and you can’t stand on your own two feet.

White Western European cultures may not be 100% identical to white American culture (duh — so what? since even identical twins aren’t 100% identical, does that mean they’re no more similar any any two random people? again, give me a break), but in my experience (based on European travel and long-term friendships with a number of expatriate Europeans), they are more similar to dominant white American culture (which after all is an amalgam of white European cultures, as you say) than is either Latino or black American culture.

I really don’t think you’re being intellectually honest here, so I think I’ll be signing off. I think your heart’s in the right place, but there’s no way we can have an intelligent debate if you don’t even acknowledge the existence of a white American culture, i.e., a set of attitudes, assumptions, beliefs and customs that is generally (not universally, but generally) shared by white Americans. Again, if that is what you think, more power to you, but for me, you might as well say you don’t believe in gravity, and I don’t see any point in going further. Cheers.

Please stop trying to define what White is, in the context of how you think others are worse (or better) as that is NOT answering the question, no matter how you try to justify it.

Is there such a thing as White culture in America? Quite probably, no. Historically, Whites descended from the English, Dutch, Irish, German people etc. all of whom have quite different long established cultures spanning thousands of years. The American White, therefore descended from what can only be described as an amalgamation of various different cultures.

The nation America, is and always has been all about immigration from all over the globe. Historical records show that quite clearly. Not only is it, by comparison to most other nations, very young, but it has been a mixture pretty much right from the start. As such there is no “pure” White American, as there never really has been. Furthermore the White American really has nothing (of note) that is original to himself as such.

Example: many Europeans, including many White Europeans, after visiting the USA invariably note the lack of any distinct culture. Even less so will they note any particular White American culture, except possibly things like fierce bordering on obsessive patriotism (just an example)

White American culture is based essentially off merging and accumulation, it’s own distinctness is quite lacking. It’s quite bland by and large. Remember, European White Culture is NOT American White Culture. As you pointed out (and which I DO read, much as you’d like to try to dismiss me) there are some regional variations e.g. southern/californian etc. yet overall it’s actually quite weak, if non-existant.

I put it to you there, that is in fact why most (if not all) White Americans have a really hard time trying to define just what is White Culture. I should add I can’t answer the question myself, at least I’m not afraid to admit it, and I don’t define myself by how I think others are worse than me in some way…

In other words, whether you express a difference between cultures in a ‘positive’ way or a ‘negative’ way, it is the difference between the cultures that is the point, and phrasing the sentence as ‘whites are generally less likely to think or do X’ or ‘Latinos are generally more likely to do or think X’ makes no difference. Wherever I have made reference to a particular trait regarding black or Latino culture, assume that I have added that white culture is characterized by the relative absence of that trait. Does that change anything? Is this really your strongest argument?

Let me put it to you again: if you can answer the question as to what is White culture, without tying it to religion or doing so at the expense of other peoples, then do so.

Imagine, if you will, the USA only had White people and nobody else for you to put down.

I’m asking What Is White Culture? Not what it isn’t, or what other non-white things are compared to it. Just White Culture. By itself.

The U.N etc. are not CULTURE. They are achievements/inventions. Just like certain non-white people invented paper, mathematics, ancient battle tactics. Those are inventions and achievements, not the definition of who a people are. Anyone could have come up with those things.

You want to say I’m using “fart logic” and whatever, yet you, like Pat and co. cannot define What Is White Culture? without resorting to referencing other peoples in a negative light.

I suppose if I asked you to describe an Orange, you’d start describing a Banana and tell me that’s not what an Orange is?

You’d like to dismiss it as fart logic and sophistry, yet I have asked a very clear, very simple question, which apparently you cannot answer without bringing others into it (to put them down)

Do you see the problem here?

So I’ll ask again, please define what is White culture, preferably in 10 points. Not what you think Latino culture is. Not what you think Black culture is. Not what you think Mexican culture is. And certainly not how they compare to White culture. Because you won’t answer what exactly White Culture is to begin with. So, just for the sake of debate, imagine there are no non-whites in America. Now without resorting to what you’ve done already, define White Culture

You did exactly what I suspected you would, which was take recouse to sophistry, or what Japanese call ‘fart logic’, and anecdotal evidence. I don’t think you even believe most of what you’re saying. Really. I mean, there’s no such thing as Latin machismo? The statistical disparity in college and advanced degrees between whites, Asians and Jews on the one hand and blacks and Hispanics on the other is meaningless, because some percentage of whites are white trash? You’ve got to be kidding.

Of course speaking a linguistically distinct version of English from the dominant society, especially during school years, and enforcing conformity to such language, is part of the culture. What else is it? Incidentally, there is such a thing as ‘Southern’ white culture too, with well-accepted mores and values in addition to the accent. Anyone who’s lived there can tell you this (everyone I know has), but I suppose you would deny this too.

All of your other points are easily refuted as well. Declining birthrate is occurring in nearly all predominantly white countries, even white Catholic countries like France, and is much more a function of the economic success of the society as a whole, the resulting greater economic prospects for women, the declining need to have children for economic security, and the greater acceptance of women’s presence in the full-time work force. That doesn’t make it any less part of the ‘culture’. Every cultural development has a reason for coming into being. Once it does, it becomes part of the culture.

Like you say, I appreciate that you tried, but you try too hard. Nitpicking peripheral points, refusing to acknowledge even my most obvious and unassailable arguments, trying to refute broad overall trends with statistically insignificant exceptions, and going so far as to equate individual contributors to impersonal, anonymous message boards with gangbangers shows me you don’t have much left. In fact, from everything you’ve said, basically your position is that culture as I’ve defined it (i.e., common beliefs, attitudes and practices across a statistically significant percentage of persons sharing the same nationality or ethnic group) doesn’t exist. If you really believe that, I would suggest you don’t become a social scientist.

I will leave it for others to go where even I don’t want to go, i.e., the fact that whites institutionalized but also abolished slavery, were responsible for the Reformation, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, created the U.N. and every other major international institution devoted to promoting world stability and progress (though the U.N. as an institution is now a bloated, patronage-based employment program for politically connected Third World elites, and has become largely irrelevant), and run all of the major international environmental and public-service NGOs, not to mention the vastly different quality of life, degree of scientific advancement and average educational level in white countries than in non-white countries. I don’t see how you can have an honest discussion about race without acknowledging these facts. They’re the proverbial 800-pound elephant in the drawing room that no one in polite society wants to admit the presence of. I do give Buchanan credit for trying, though I probably disagree with him on 95% of his politics.

Of course, saying ‘we’re better’ isn’t going to make the world a better place. But my agenda isn’t so grandiose — all I’m saying here is, stopping the unending flow of millions of impoverished, uneducated, high-birthrate Mexicans into the US will make the US a better place. To call this racist is idiotic in my opinion, but there it is.

You also neglect to mention these “civilized countries” were built on genocide, slaughter and slavery. Not to mention the mess left behind from various Empires of the White Man.

I guess you’ve no clue why the area around current day Iraq is refered to by historians as “the cradle of civilization”

If Mexicans could build a free society and prosperous society on there own they wouldn’t be fleeing up here in the first place.

The only other race that may be able to produce civilized societies are the east asians which may become our greatest rivals.

The U.S needs to stay white if it wishes to remain free and civilized.

Comment by Jericho — September 2, 2006 @ 12:06 pm

Not that I’m proud of the killings made by ancient Spaniards in the Americas, but just think of some actual facts: Where are the higher number of native americans living today? USA or Center and South America? The USA history of the XVI to the XIX century is a long series of killings of native americans, and consecutibe pact breachings by the USA government, to grab yard after yard of native american land, and moving them to filthy reservations in swamps and deserts…

USA people is too fond of stereotypes about ancient Spaniards, and are totally blind to the same or worse facts done by his ancestors…

Let’s see. The first thing that stands out notably is that several of your points are not really describing White culture but you’re instead making direct comparisons (and assumptions) about others. That is NOT answering the question. For example, if asked to describe an Orange, it is perfectly possible to describe an Orange without making any mention of Apples or Bananas.

1 – “macho” and “honor” are highly subjective and can’t be described as a cultural thing. If anything it could be describing “American” which many people typically associate with having a strong sense of patriotism, being easily insulted and being “macho” (note again, defining by comparison to someone else)

2 – greater emphasis on education. Highly questionable, as there are also quite a few undereducated/uneducated White people (you’ve heard the phrases “rednecks” and “trailer park trash” bandied about) – not to mention a significant percent of White people do not believe in evolution, believe the rapture is coming, know nothing beyond their little enclave in the US etc. (note again, defining by comparison to someone else)

3 – (note again, this time you even start off describing in your view something else) Accent is NOT culture. Accent is regional variation in the sounds of voices for example someone from California has a different accent to someone from Alabama, but they may both live in New York and share the same culture. They may even both be, for example, Japanese and have a distinctly Japanese culture but still have different accents. Slang and Syntax, that’s arguable as that varies from region to region as well irrespective.

4 – (note again, defining by something else) Assuming it’s true, which it isn’t, ashuman beings are by nature tribal so people do hang out in groups, including White Americans heck just look at the forums for proof of everyone grouping up. It could arguably be down to matters of trust/faith in authority. Especially if the establishment is considered as biased, people will not approach it or be less inclined to do so.

5 – Even if true, only the minority of Whites volunteer. Therefore it’s hardly a cultural thing. (note again…)

6 – Religion doesn’t qualify as something cultural (for reasons explained previously on account of many are not religious, yet maintain the culture). Quite aside from which there are a LOT of White Catholics too, and they too may also have large families. So it’s arguably a shared trait for Catholics, as opposed to a White culture thing. (same note as previous ones)

7 – Employment prospects are not “White culture”. (note as previous)

Ok look, I can see you’ve tried and I do appreciate that, but as you can see you’ve not really explained what is White culture. The reason I’ve put the “note” in every point: because how would you define White culture if there were only White people in America? It’s perfectly possible to define, say, Japanese culture, without having to compare and put down something else… which is really what you’re doing here, disingeniously. Start over, and without mentioning other peoples try to define it then. Not so easy is it?

Your “conclusion” simply backs up that you’ve not really explained White culture but instead used it as an excuse to denigrate others who are non-white. Most of your “points about what is White culture” prove that. I could just as easily say “well Tom, there is a huge percent of White Americans who are have a poor education, a large percent who are obese, significant numbers who are an embarrassment. But I know some who are in shape, well educated, hold down great jobs; if only all Whites were like that I wouldn’t be concerned about the present situation. But that’s not the case, and there’s no point kidding ourselves about it.”

You even point out you have to research it, which you’ve not done enough of anyway.

So overall, you’ve not only not answered the question but you’ve (once again as typically Pat would do) shown only your interest in putting down others. That my friend, is a very poor reflection on the person – it says “I can’t stand on my own two feet, without stepping on someone else”