White House ‘Cuts And Runs’ on ‘Stay the Course’
White House ‘Cuts And Runs’ on ‘Stay the Course’
In today’s Washington Post, the White House complains that its critics use the term “stay the course” to describe President Bush’s strategy in Iraq:
Many Democrats accuse the president of advocating “stay the course” in Iraq, but the White House rejects the phrase and regularly emphasizes that it is adapting tactics to changing circumstances, such as moving more U.S. troops into Baghdad recently after a previous security strategy appeared to fail.
“Strategically, we are staying committed to the fact that this is an important mission and one that should be accomplished,” said a senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Democrats, this adviser said, say “we’re ‘doing the same thing over and over’ when that’s not the case.”
Where did anyone get the idea that the White House supports a “stay the course” strategy?
White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, 8/17/06: “[Y]ou…cannot be a President in a wartime and not realize that you’ve got to stay the course.”
Snow, 8/16/06: “[T]hat’s why the President is determined to stay the course.”
President Bush, 7/11/06: “As a matter of fact, we will win in Iraq so long as we stay the course.”
Vice President Cheney, 6/6/06: “[W]e have to stay the course.”
People who say the Bush administration wants to “stay the course” in Iraq are not making an accusation, as today’s Washington Post suggests. They are telling the truth.
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Yeah. Mehlman and his big floppy spit-covered gay lips was spewing the ‘Adapt” garbage on MSNBC yesterday…
August 31st, 2006 at 9:50 amMehlman’s MTP interview of two weeks ago repeatedly talking about “adapting” heralded new phraseology for Bush&Co.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:55 amTruly, they are working from a “1984” playbook; the enemy keeps changing, history is revised, and records are unavailable. Now they change their own slogans when the words begin to be used against them.
And the number of people who will accept all of this without challenge continues to baffle me.
Adapt to Win, baby….
All the cool kids are doing it.
Good thing this admin has the press well in hand, there won’t any pesky video clips of those wankers actually saying, Stay the f*cking Course.
Except on Keith, Daily Show, and the Colbert Report.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:56 amPresident Bush, 7/11/06: “As a matter of fact, we will win in Iraq so long as we stay the course.â€
First where is ANY evidence that this statement is true. I could just as easily say I will win the big lottery jackpot so long as I keep buying tickets – not true either and everyone sees that. And second, I gues the Prez will now admit we are going to LOSE in Iraq, since he no longer endorses “Stay the Course”. Now report that on Faux.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:56 amThe W group is “staying the course”, but is sailing in uncharted waters.He has no idea of where the course will end, except we will get to a port after his presidency ends.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:00 amI suppose it is our fault.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:00 amWe should have known that when they said “stay the course”, they really meant “adapt and win.”
What were we thinking!! (…he said with a little smirk on his face)
[Vizzini has just cut the rope The Dread Pirate Roberts is climbing up]
August 31st, 2006 at 10:07 amVizzini: HE DIDN’T FALL? INCONCEIVABLE.
Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Adapt to win. hmmm. Have they ever said what a win would constitue? When has it ever been said by these buffons what the goal is for anything.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:09 amWell, “adapt and win” sound so much more, you know, positive.
I think it’s somewhat comical that, once again, this administration has to go on a cross-country marketing tour to try and sell this “war.” Other than spouting “adapt and win” like a parrot at every event, what the hell can Bush do differently?
I think it’s also funny that on CNN this morning, Miles O’Brien was saying that Bush didn’t want to politicize the “war” in Iraq, but that that was exactly what Rummy was doing the other day in his speech.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:12 amYour delusional prez arrived in Salt Lake City last night, on another political tour paid for by the US taxpayers, and gave a short arrival speech.
“We must stay the course”. Flapping lips Mehlman has got to get next to the prez and tell him this old saying is out.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:12 amMiles O’Brien. Now there is a real intellectual meat puppet.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:18 amHow can the President of the United States say anything without it being politicized. That’s what he does, dimwit!
Why can’t a reporter get his or her ass in gear and bring up these quotes and ask about them? How about a little confrontation of the facts?
August 31st, 2006 at 10:19 amMehlman floated the trial balloon with “adapt to win,” but that clearly failed, because conservatives, by their nature, are opposed to change. So they try again. All it means is that Rove is trying to change “Four legs good, two legs bad” into “Four legs good, two legs better.” But as I said before, conservatives resist change, which is why stay the course has resonated so well with them. Can’t wait to hear what “mean Jean” Scmidt will say.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:20 amAdapt to win. hmmm. Have they ever said what a win would constitue? When has it ever been said by these buffons what the goal is for anything.
Comment by dlet — August 31, 2006 @ 10:09 am
The only statement they have made that I feel comes close to declaring victory is when Bush said “When the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.” Which means…when the Iraqis can defend themselves, we can leave. Or at least most of the troops can. They do need someone to occupy those military bases they are building.
But…what if there are still terrorists (5-7% of the enemy) still in Iraq, fighting the new Iraqi security forces? Isn’t it our goal to defeat the terrorists? Can we declare victory when Iraq can defend itself, yet there are still terrorists there?
In the end, we will have won when Bush, and only Bush, says we have won. If it’s 2 days before the Congressional elections, then so be it. If it’s the day before the next inauguration, then so be it. Bush says he’s going to let the next president decide when we will get out of Iraq, and maybe he will. But you can bet your ass Bush is going to declare victory before he leaves office.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:23 amGeez …. Bush even said it YESTERDAY!
August 31st, 2006 at 10:31 am
Ok, so ‘Staying the Course’ isn’t accurate. How about ‘Shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic?’
August 31st, 2006 at 10:31 amBut you can bet your ass Bush is going to declare victory before he leaves office.
Comment by WC A
A kind of self-presidential pardon for the mess he created.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:31 amGoing to work really cramps the fun here at TP!
August 31st, 2006 at 10:32 amI hope I can get past the filter later.
Geez …. Bush even said it YESTERDAY!
See http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/08/20060830-10.html
wankers
August 31st, 2006 at 10:32 amOnce again they resort to kindergarten quality ways of thinking.
Saddam/Iraq & 9/11 – Oops, no we didn’t say any such thing!
Osama bin Laden absolutely must be caught – Oops, no we didn’t say that!
WMD in Iraq – Oops, no we didn’t say that!
Stay the course – Oops, no we didn’t say that!
War on terror – it’s the Long War, stupid!
Mission Accomplished – Oops, no we didn’t say that!
Why does anyone with any integrity defend these chameleons? They obviously have none.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:33 amI predict some responses like this
“Why’d you bring it up?”
“No I didn’t”
“Yes you did, right here.. and here.. and here..”
“Shut up! You support hitler! You’re so thick! You’re dumb! Why do you hate America?”
Taking bets… who do you think will be the first braindead troll to defend ‘em?
August 31st, 2006 at 10:35 amWhere did anyone get the idea that the White House supports a “stay the course†strategy?
Dont they know that there are certain devices that can record images and voices?
August 31st, 2006 at 10:39 amI love the sound of Republicans WAFFLING in the morning!
August 31st, 2006 at 10:42 amWhat “course” or what “win”? It does not really matter. The Republicans use the slogans without any definitions or metrics to determine when the end is reached in the War in Iraq. BushCo should be confronted on this time and time again, until they have to admit they do not have an end strategy.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:44 amJust another day in bull shit bush bizarro world……Gonna be another T.V. bush blitz morning. Listen closly all for the one word fact on what the mad man is doing…..Note how often the propaganda is coming at us of late..Yesterday and the day before was rummy blasting all citizens who are agasinst this madness and now today we will hear again from the war starter and chief pupett….Didn’t he just give us a bunch of crap earlier in the week.?
Wonder how much the net works get paid for all this crap….Bet it’s our tax dollars to boot. Let us not forget it cost us $6,500=+ plus per hour to fly air force one and 2 all over for these political fund raisers….Let’s see Laura in one plane and bull shit in another and that over $13,000 an hour…
Nothing on the new’s about the Salt Lake rallies for peace or getting out of Iraq…..Hummmm hay Jason and MA where’s the left wing media.?//……Blessings all, pass them along…Peace for the children of the world.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:45 amthe republicans are such hypocrits. they say cut and run and accuse others of calling them that. they use nazi propoganda tactics then accuse others of acting like nazi’s. their is no end to what they will do. they are farther right than the most liberal congressman and senators. They refuse to make any compromise, let anyone else help make any decision, exclude dems from closed door meetings, and make absolutely no compromise with the american people making decisions for only %35 percent of americans. When will anyone report about this?
August 31st, 2006 at 10:46 am“stay the courseâ€
U.N.: Israeli bombs an ‘outrage’
A U.N. official called it an “outrage” that Israel dropped cluster bombs in southern Lebanon. “It is an outrage that we have 100,000 unexploded bombs” in southern Lebanon that will take a year or two to clear, said Jan Egeland, the U.N. Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs.
BUSH YOUR POLICIES ARE A FRIGGIN DISCRACE TO THE WHOLE OF MANKIND
August 31st, 2006 at 10:54 amPressure for an international ban on cluster bombs has intensified as Israel stands accused of littering southern Lebanon with thousands of unexploded bombs in the final hours of its war against Hizbollah.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:59 amThis guy is clarifying the administration’s policy and supposedly correcting a misunderstanding yet he’s speaking on condition of anonymity? Anybody else see a problem here?
I’m really, really sick of these people telling us how to use language, as if they’re in charge of it.
I’m getting desparate. Isn’t there something we can do to obliterate this crowd?
August 31st, 2006 at 11:11 amTobey,
For a country with more restrictive laws on its press than ours, yours sure does a better job of letting people know the truth. Thanks for helping to keep your “cousins” here informed. :)
August 31st, 2006 at 11:22 am#1. DLC,
I don’t mind your expressing dissent against anyone who sides with this corrupt administration but your obvious hate for gays is extremely disturbing when you say something like: “Mehlman and his big floppy spit-covered gay lips was spewing the ‘Adapt†garbage”
I am gay and find it utterly offensive when this kind of comment, although democatic, supports the exact hateful Bush agenda we are all so adamantly against. I thought you were a Progressive Thinker. TP, I wish you could rule against gay bashing since human rights and gays rights are part of the things you stand for.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:24 amBush, last night:
August 31st, 2006 at 11:26 am
Tobey:
Yup, apparently cluster bombs will have to be banned outright, as Israel insists on deploying them in civilian areas, in blatant disregard of the Geneva Convention (more info here).
Remember when the Geneva Convention meant something?
August 31st, 2006 at 11:26 amThis guy is clarifying the administration’s policy and supposedly correcting a misunderstanding yet he’s speaking on condition of anonymity? Anybody else see a problem here?
Yes, I do. The only reason that I can imagine why a “senior administration official” would wish to remain anonymous while clarifying its policy (as opposed to criticizing it) is that this administration has a rule against talking to journalists. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
These people hate journalism because a good reporter exposes the truth and that would ruin all of their plans. This administration cannot function openly. It simply cannot do it. They see the truth as their enemy, and do everything they can to keep it from coming out. The truth is like sunlight to a vampire to the Bush administration.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:27 amBush 3.0 is a Dud!!! Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush has wasted the lives and limbs of the finest Americans.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:46 ami’m with you, marley…
the hate speech and name calliing is so hypocritical…
it’s very distressing to be associated with such negativeness…
IT JUST DOESN’T HELP.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:47 amAdapting what they are doing on the ground to react to one action or another is tactical stuff. Their strategic plan is to stay the course.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:54 ammarley and katy
August 31st, 2006 at 12:00 pmI am very opposed to name-calling about identity (gay, woman, black, etc). I prefer to avoid inflammatory name-calling about choices (liar, hypocrite, etc) but this is often necessary to get through the fog of deception.
#1 “spit covered gay lips”
Are you kidding you moron! Do you realize what you sound like. Are you aware of the fact that your comment is a blur, after your hate filled bs. What hypocrisy! You spew your righteous weightless opinions, thinly veiling more of the same hatred and bigotry of the government you so despise. Perhaps you should explore the definition of democracy.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:01 pmThank you Katy,
It just defeats the purpose of what Think Progress stands for and why I come here, thinking it is a safe haven to share my views with all of you. We The People stand together in Peace against hateful criminals!
August 31st, 2006 at 12:02 pmbut this is often necessary to get through the fog of deception, Comment by PLC (PatrioticLiberalChristian) — August 31, 2006 @ 12:00
There you just proved to the rest of us that gay bashing is OKAY to get through the fog of deception? My GOD! Are you insane? Your excuse is ABOMINABLE.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:07 pmStay the course got beaten down so they are trying to co-opt an old military saying “adapt and overcome.” Un fortunately the policy is more like another Army phrase. the policy is O.B.E. overcome by events.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:07 pmWhat is mind blowing… Only three people commented regarding DLC. Progressive is subjective it seems.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:10 pmVery Christian of you PLC (PatrioticLiberalChristian)!! There lies the answer…
August 31st, 2006 at 12:10 pmDear Disgusted,
I thought the same thing. When it comes to gay rights… Everybody walks away… slowly and silently… Make you sure you don’t drop anything on the way out!
It is heartbreaking… I am appalled!
August 31st, 2006 at 12:15 pmThis is the outgrowth of Ken Mehlmans inane “adapt to win” comment on Meet the Press a couple of weeks ago.
Isn’t it great to see the administration EMBRACING DARWINISM?
August 31st, 2006 at 12:16 pmWell another speech has drug on my nerves and pissed me off for another day, and it’s only Thursday……I listened and it was just like all the others with the exception of more comments about Iran and their lack of compliance to bull shits demand’s…..This is gonna be a big hug trees day….We all need more grounding and meditation to keep our focus away from the more bush war’s crowd……
Can we hear some rebutal from the Dem’s please..We need more of them speaking out….Blessings…..Peace
August 31st, 2006 at 12:18 pmmarley
August 31st, 2006 at 12:23 pmWHOA, there!! Maybe I didn’t express it clearly, although I thought I did: I am absolutely opposed to ANY name-calling about identity and am not only against gay bashing, I advocate for gay rights vehemently any chance I get. It is ONLY general name-calling about people’s choices like lying, etc that I can justify, even that being reluctantly. Please re-read my post38. I’m on your side.
There is something wrong with a party that has to lie, cheat, and spin everything they stand for. The Republican Party, at one time, was conservative but has changed to a dishonest bunch that cannot tell the truth about anything they are doing…anyone else notice this?
August 31st, 2006 at 12:31 pmbut this is often necessary to get through the fog of deception.
PLC,
It wasn’t clear. It seemed you were saying any name calling is often necessary to get through the fog of deception…
I have to disagree about using gays or any ethnic group as a mean to get through your point. We are talking about human beings here, not just a “liar” an “idiot” or a “republican”. When did you ever hear someone say: That stupid “heterosexual” man or this “white” imbecile… Practically never. This is about human rights.
Don’t mean to throw everyone off topic but I thought this was too important to just ignore.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:37 pm‘Adapt and win’? Sounds like evolution to me.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:41 pmMarley
You focus on my phrase but this is often necessary to get through the fog of deception. Please note that this phrase was not in my sentence about gays, only connected with general name-calling. I don’t want to belabor this, but I really feel compelled to ask: did you make an assumption about my beliefs about gays because of the “Christian” part of my screen name? My whole objective in blogging is to present a decidedly progressive alternative Christian view and to oppose the Christian right’s hijacking of my religion to foster oppression and bigotry.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:43 pmIn today’s Washington Post, the White House complains that its critics use the term “stay the course†to describe President Bush’s strategy in Iraq:
==
Ohh wattsa matta Rover wover, did da bigg badd tawwkin pointsy wointsy backfire on turdsy wurdsy??
==
President Bush gave a talk at the Athena Performing Arts Center at Greece Athena Middle and High School Tuesday, May 24, 2005 in Rochester, NY. Bush traveled to Rochester, trying to win support for his proposed overhaul of the Social Security system.
“See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
August 31st, 2006 at 12:46 pm==
Hahahaaa. The Rover/Bush/Kristol Standard Weakly non-ending campaign of stupidity and propaganda has hit a great big snag!
Also remember there are several permanent military bases being built in Iraq. The US “embassy” there is not only the world’s largest but it is self sufficient and more like a fortress in some ways.
Americas sons and daughters will be paying in blood for a long time. Except of course the sons and daughters of BushCo and the perpetrators of this occupation.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:52 pmI’d love to see a commercial in which campaigning Bush refers to Kerry as a “flip-flopper” (even better if there is one in which Bush defines the term) and then a series of clips of BushCo’s “stay the course” comments and then a clip of denying the “stay the course” strategy.
Another commercial would have a picture of Osama Bin Laden and a voice-over of Bush’s “I don’t spend time thinking about him” comment. Then a series of pictures of prominent Democrats with a cacophony of anti-Democrat rhetoric from BushCo and neocon pundits as voice-overs. Then fade to a black screen with the words and voice-over saying “Fighting them over here, so we don’t have to find him over there”.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:00 pmPLC,
I understand, thanks for taking the time to clarify. I was caught in an actual “fog of deception” and could not see clearly. It is just so infuriating. I call truce. Peace.
Then you look at the newest Thread about the gay student president above… Everyone is taking a jab at it mocking gays left and right. We are always laughed at and ridiculed. Hence the anger.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:04 pmA rose by any other name….
August 31st, 2006 at 1:13 pmMarley
August 31st, 2006 at 1:17 pmNo war, so no truce. Just a misunderstanding that we confronted and clarified. Would that nations acted this way! BTW, it is perfectly understandable that you have been infuriated and angry. I am heterosexual and you should have read or heard some of my comments about the “marriage protection” garbage! I must admit, though, that I have been a bit lax lately in confronting other progressives about their use of prejudicial language (although not totally avoiding it). So, I promise to be more vigilant because you are right in that.
[...] That’s what the Iraq debate is. There’s no evolution, nothing changes. The talking points all stay the same. We aren’t leaving until the job is done. The terrorists want us to leave, so we won’t. If we left it would be a disaster and show that America isn’t willing to finish what it starts. Take your pick. At least we’re avoiding the “stay the course”. Except all those other times. [...]
August 31st, 2006 at 1:30 pm…but the White House rejects the phrase and regularly emphasizes that it is adapting tactics to changing circumstances, such as moving more U.S. troops into Baghdad recently after a previous security strategy appeared to fail.
Gosh. For a minute there I’d thought George himself had picked up the hotline to Iraq and ordered additional troops into Baghdad.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:38 pmThanks for your vigilance PLC.Very much appreciated.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:48 pmWas on TalkLeft reading some excerpts from Bush’s speach today. Victory has been defined as 3 goals:
Notice the reference to “clear” objectives. And notice that all three must be met. Let’s see. Democracy = freedom. Terrorists hate freedom. So by insisting on setting up a democracy in Iraq, Bush has given the terrorists a target. Does he think that there is a finite number of terrorists? Do the attacks by terrorists and Saddamists have to fall to zero before he declares victory? 3 per month? 5? What if all 3 objectives are met, we pull out, and 3 months later the attacks begin again to the point that the Iraqi security forces can’t handle it? Do we undeclare victory…”mission unaccomplished”…and go back in?
August 31st, 2006 at 2:09 pmVictory will be achieved by meeting certain clear objectives: when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten Iraq’s democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can protect their own people, and when Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against our country.
By this statement victory could concievably NEVER be achieved. Hell the republicans are sayiny 60% of Americans and the Democratic Party threaten US democracy, so by Bush’s definition we will NEVER leave Iraq.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:05 pmmarley, katy, disgusted (etc). The name-calling is not always indicative of the person’s belief or opinions. If you are going to call someone a name in order to irritate them, you call them something that THEY find offensive. Go up to ANY homophobic bigot and call them gay. They will, invariably, blow a gasket. It DOES NOT mean that the ‘name-caller’ finds that offensive, nor does it substantiate a negative stereotype on the name unless you allow it to in your mind. You interpret what others say. Calling him “gay” does not automatically connotate evil to the word, nor to homosexuals in general — unless YOU are personally offended by being called gay… but that may be your issue, not the speaker’s. An insult is an insult only as far as the receiver perceives it as an insult. Calling a white supremecist a “witey” or even “cracker” is not very effectual at annoying them. Call a white supremecist a “N*%#@r” and you will get a reaction, because THAT PERSON thinks of that word as an evil and offensive word.
This is actually even MORE effective when the name-caller IS gay (or believed to be gay), and calls a homophobe gay. Their reactions are priceless.
Call a hard-core Conservative a Liberal. Etc.
To insult someone you apply words to them that THEY interpret negatively. YOU (the speaker) do not have to hold those words in the same light.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:08 pmThis is my first and probably my last ever post to a site like this. I’m a Christian Conservative who dislikes the terms “fanatic” and/or “right-winger”. It’s easy for both sides to sit back and poke fun at the other. Republicans and Democrats always resort to the same tactics of name-calling and casting espersions… why??? because it works. So president Bush’s policies in the middle east are a failure, so were Clintons. And the reality is that your questioning of a presidents policies are not valid if you do not offer a viable alternative. Leaving Iraq would be just as catastrophic as staying. Like it or not, we’ve made a promise to the decent people of Iraq. Liberals claim to care so much for “the little guy”, well now it’s time to put your money where your mouth is. I’ll be the first and loudest Republican when it comes to the idea that our troops should come home. One more dead soldier is one more broken hearted family. I’ve now lost both friends and family members to this war (not a single one of them ever questioning their duty). What I wouldn’t give to have another day with any of them. What I wouldn’t give to be able to give them one more hug, beg them not to go, or just tell them I love them. Which is why I will not let their sacrifices be in vain. They’ve given their lives so that the good people of Iraq have a chance to build their own form of Democracy, no matter how different from ours, for their children and grand children. To leave now demeans everything that our soldiers, their families, and everyone who cares has done for the people of Iraq.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:19 pmRepublican or Democrat, in 2008 I’m voting for the presidential candidate that will change the world, not just rely on rhetoric, ralling cries, and/or cliche’s of the past 14 years. If you bloggers on this site want my respect and my vote someday, please come up with a “progressive” idea and when you do… let us know what it is! Shouting “Bush is evil” at the top of your lungs, does nothing to change my opinion of Democrats. That is where you’re lacking. I am desperate for an alternative, and the only thing you’ve offered is (so called) “cut-and-run”. You claim to care soo much for the little guy, but where are you when he needs you? And in that caring for the little guy, you villify the “big-guy”. You should care about everyone, I know I do.
Sorry for this long rant and thank you for reading it. I just pray that one of you hears me.
64 just a thought
August 31st, 2006 at 3:23 pmYou are absolutely right, technically. I am a psychologist and have long taught this to my clients. However, the social component, i.e. institutionalized oppression and bigotry, cannot be ignored. By using “gay” as an insult at any time, it can also legitimize the marginalization of homosexuals by appealing to the receptive audience that already perceives homosexuals as subhuman second-class citizens. I don’t mind being called a “liberal”, but I sure as hell do object to having that used as put-down!
Jason Honeycutt
August 31st, 2006 at 3:29 pmYou are going to leave after only one post? Not much room for discussion or understanding there, then. Scroll on this thread and you might see how Marley and I bridge our misunderstandings through honest, up-front debate. Maybe you should try that with your Conservative Christian position. As a Liberal Christian I would enjoy the debate and say “halleluia” to the common ground we would probably find. Unfortunately, I am signing off for today. Hope you stick around.
#65, see that’s what i love about liars. Instead of just admitting Bush, Cheney et all have screwed up terrorism, Iraq, Katrina, civil rights, essentially the whole world – you’re going to feign “outrage” at people calling each other names and then BASH CLINTON! If you have ANY principles you would have stopped at Bush is a major league screw up and we need to get rid of screw ups in the Presidency.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:37 pmOh and #65, give me EVIDENCE OF THE REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT YOU ARE REPEATING:
Leaving Iraq would be just as catastrophic as staying.
How would it be catastrophic and to whom?
August 31st, 2006 at 3:39 pm#64 Actually I do agree that the general use of language as terms of abuse is bad when it implies a group or mindset is “wrong” without any basis. And “gay” is a word used in that manner frequently. I do think, though, that if you intend to insult someone with short language that you have to use words that that person finds insulting. I do not advocate insults, but sometimes it can be amusing, and sometimes it can be useful (in a less than honorable manner) in argument — someone easily offended by a single word can get quite flustered very quickly when called that. I do, however, advocate reciprocity when it is not inherintly immoral. For example, I try to not begin insults to other posters on blogs, but if someone else wishes to begin with insults, I can play that game. A verbal bully in a verbal environment (the internet) needs to be fought with words, and sometimes it takes reciprocal insulting to back that ‘bully’ down. It is also sometimes amusing, as most posters who have ever engaged in this behavior know.
I understand your position on the marginalization, and pretty much agree with what you said. However, I still see no problem with insulting a bigot by calling them the object of their bigotry. Calling a bigot a “bigot” may make them defensive, but if you are going for the “verbal punch”, you do much better calling them by the very thing that they fear and loathe. Just saying.
You know the Lenny Bruce theory? – run the word into the ground until it is no longer offensive because it is so common. When a word is kept ’sacred’ and ‘taboo’, it retains the negative connotations as it is only brought out to relate that negativity. To accomplish this, of course, the word needs to be used in circumstance other than insults. I myslef prefer the archaic and original meaning of the word.
“…Lend me a hand, I’m scarce able to stand, but I’m gay whilst I linger on top of the land” (H.P. Lovecraft)
August 31st, 2006 at 3:43 pm#69 Hey – it would be catastrophic to Halliburton’s profit margin.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:46 pmWhich is why I will not let their sacrifices be in vain. They’ve given their lives so that the good people of Iraq have a chance to build their own form of Democracy, no matter how different from ours, for their children and grand children. To leave now demeans everything that our soldiers, their families, and everyone who cares has done for the people of Iraq.
Comment by Jason Honeycutt — August 31, 2006 @ 3:19 pm
This is so wrong on so many levels I don’t know where to start. First, the military sacrifices would never be in vain, but the Administrations plans are incompetent and keeping good people in harm’s way with an idiot in charge demeans the good people. Second, who the hell says Iraq wants a democracy. Evidently they don’t since they have set up a religious governement devoid of democratic principles. And leaving doesn’t demean our soldiers, it protects our soldiers, reuintes them with their families, and embarasses the idiots who gave them the orders to go there in the first place. Every line written by Jason is nothing by smoke and mirrors.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:20 pmwow… Jason Honeycutt your a work of republican art.
isn’t it funny that what some call art others call obscene?
as i’m sure your lord would find your thinking vile and obscene.
for a proclaimed christian, what you attempt to propagate is just sick, demented, and twisted.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:31 pm#64 and #66,
I completely understand all that you say and agree with most it in its clinical sense. Thank you for such coherent intelligence by the way… We need more of this in the White House. Your dissection of what an insult could or should be perceived to be by the insulter or from the insultee was absolutely right on but more from a technical stand point. As a gay “insultee” in this case, I could not separate my emotions from what was an extremely hatred filled comment associating not only “gay lips” but “spit-covered-gay-lips” to something as negative as the subject we are so against in this very thread. I never thought it would be possible on Think Progress. It crawled right under my skin. I would hope that it would not be tolerated… This progressive site and most of [its progressives], on deep defamation of character and hate issues, seem to turn a blind eye… I may have over-estimated the progressive thinkers of today as being the liberators of tomorrow. Maybe I am ahead of myself. This feels like the 50’s.
Thanks for listening.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:53 pm#70, I overlooked your post. Very Compelling. Thank you.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:04 pmare you trying to create wedge issues?
August 31st, 2006 at 6:10 pmWe will continue to stay the course until the knuckle-dragging Republicans get pissed. And when will that be? I don’t know. It ceases to amaze me how much the Republicans can take. They vote for these crime family people, the crime family picks their pockets, and they keep voting for the evil bastards. Wow, how fricken stupid can they be? I guess the Republican knuckle-draggers justify it by saying, “at least the queers con’t get married”. Sheeeshhh, what idiots. Makes me think we should have history testing to qualify to vote. Stay the course, yee haa.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:19 pmaddendum #77 – really, for someone who seems to have a problem with sterotyping – you sure cast the dye fast.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:21 pmThe John Stewart piece on this was the best. He had clip after clip of W saying stay the course…
someone should dig it up and send it out to all the Wa Po writers.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:32 pmFunny how because I raise a controversial point about a democrat being completely out of line… I am quickly questioned as being a potential troll, creating wedge issues. I have now heard it all… No, I am not trying to create wedge issues. No, i am not Joe Liebermann starting “The Purple Party”. I am simply voicing my opinion on certain verbally abusive and bigot posters like DLC in the #1 position on this thread.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:35 pmRead it again and put yourself in my gay democratic shoes for 5 seconds.
addendum #77 – really, for someone who seems to have a problem with sterotyping – you sure cast the dye fast.
Show me one serious gay related thread on this site that did not turn into a gay joke contest and I’ll take back what I said swiftly.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:44 pm#77,
Show me one serious gay related thread on this site that did not turn into a gay joke contest and I’ll take back what I said swiftly.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:46 pm#83 – that isn’t my point of conversation.
my point is you seem to take a known republican wedge issue game play and use it very well.
so, how can you condemn in others the same that you do?
August 31st, 2006 at 7:17 pmand should you actually choose to answer, please save the feigned outrage (isn’t that another republican tactic?) and hyperbole for yourself in the mirror.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:31 pmNym,
August 31st, 2006 at 7:31 pmYou miss the point or you have not read the entire past related conversations.
Sorry. I choose not to engage in your comparison as you are a waste of my energy.
Enjoy your evening.
I can’t believe that anyone is looking at us with a straight face saying “we never said stay the course“. That was Bush’s motto from day one.
Its been the subject of jokes and controversy for years, but oh now, we just made it all up. Now it never was their position.
Stay the course is Bush’s MANTRA, not his motto.
Get it?
His MANTRA.
And what does “Stay the Course” mean to Mr Bush?
It means letting other peoples kids drive around in Humvees waiting to get blown to bits.
It means having sumptous dinners while other peoples kids are playing Russian rhoulette with with 200 pounds of buried dynamite.
It means doing nothing, and giving nothing, while everyone else’s children give everything there is to give.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:50 pmof course.
just calling you out and the actions you produce.
others can make their own judgements. at least knowing what you do may prevent others from wasting their energy, too.
i personally think you’re a hypocrite and possible republican.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:52 pm#78 – “We will continue to stay the course until the knuckle-dragging Republicans get pissed….” Comment by Chris in Santa Fe
********Chris, such an original thought!! At least we Repubs are standing upright….It must be difficult to still be slithering along after all these eons…..
#87- “It means having sumptous dinners while other peoples kids are playing Russian rhoulette with with 200 pounds of buried dynamite.
It means doing nothing, and giving nothing, while everyone else’s children give everything there is to give.” More breast-beating by Worfeus
******Dear Worteus – I must have missed the Clinton-Fast during The first WTC bombing, Bosnia, the embassy bombings…oh, which unit was Chelsea assigned to?
August 31st, 2006 at 8:05 pmLok it’s Masshat…Clinton bashing, my god you’re even more pathetic than usual.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:14 pmDear BoneR – I don’t think your Clinton-whine holds up , bomeR. We’ve had Wortfeus selectively quoting Washington to Eisenhower, so I don’t noting the food proclivities of the previous Commander-in-Chief is out of line….For some reason, I’m convinced you disagree….
On a serious note – personally know those you would share personal information. (To demonstrate my concern you may have missed a little tidbit:
“Bones, Mr. Ebers, excellent…..Mr. Ebers, I am always pleased to make a professional acquaintance. If you wish, you may email me at myspammailbox at hotmail dot com. Bones, the same invitation goes to you.â€
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
*****Although I have my “differences†with boneR & DaveESQ – I would like to point out that Braid Fair and I enjoyed several semi-interesting discussions when she suggested we correspond privately. I was very nice in my reply rejecting that suggestion. I’m sure she is EXACTLY as she represents herself to be – but I take sensible measures to guard my privacy and the safety of my family – and one NEVER knows….there are more than a few hot-headed progs lurking around….”
Must be running….
August 31st, 2006 at 8:26 pm’til later…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 29, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
OK. It’s later. I’ve finished reading Judge Taylor’s ruling. Time to show us your “legal” skills, Mighty aFraudite. What would be the grounds for overturning the opinion? What will be the judicial standard applied in reviewing the case? What were her errors? Cite her ruling, by page number.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:51 pmBlank Check diplomacy is no a strategy for Iraq. It seems the Brian Williams interview with Bush in New Orleans disclosed the President’s view that Americans have indeed made sacrifices in the War on Terror/War in Iraq. We all pay “alot in taxes”. Williams soft ball questioning failed to point out that the wealthiest 2% of Americans have enjoyed LESS taxes to the tune equivalent to 2 New Hummers per year or a nice Beach House over the last couple of years. They do pay twice as much to the oil companies in order to refill those Hummers at the gas pump.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:54 pm#88: of course.
just calling you out and the actions you produce.
others can make their own judgements. at least knowing what you do may prevent others from wasting their energy, too.
i personally think you’re a hypocrite and possible republican.
Comment by nym@alias.net — August 31, 2006 @ 7:52 pm
I think you’re a narrow minded democrat who is new to Think Progress and has NO CLUE on my political standing. If you had been here a while, you would have seen my comment history as being everything BUT a hypocritcal republican.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:58 pmMarley,
I’ve been following posts here for awhile. I’m sure if you go back over the past several months you will find threads in which several posters here speak out in favor of gay rights. I don’t recall the exact time frame, but it was right around when the Republicans wanted to push through the Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriages.
************
On topic, I see Winston Smith is working overtime again, changing History for Big Brother. Keep working oth those three-word phrases, they seem to work great for the party of Fear and Smear.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:13 pmMarley, your actions have already shown your hypocracy.
you have condemned others yet turn around and do the same thing. you sterotyped a community.
here is your statement.
-now, you raised such a stink with a wedge issue.
-when called out, you attempted to switch topics.
-then you feigned outrage laced with hyperbole.
-and now you come back to debate your hypocracy, when you said you wouldn’t do such.
the above seems a little too paid hack. but that’s my opinion. others can judge your actions as they see fit.
regardless, you’re a hypocrite. your actions are hypocritcal.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:32 pmQuite true. That was when I was going to law school and Mighty A represented herself to be an attorney.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2006 @ 8:26 pm
First off, I’ve never represented myself to be a “she.” I wear a kilt, not a kilt-skirt. And I use myspammailbox as a way to avoid getting spammed in my other email accounts. So far it has worked well. I’m not worried about the “progs” but I am more concerned about people who falsely represent themselves to be more than what they are.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:53 pmNym,
Bravo. Clap. Clap. Clap. Bullying gays, the best you can, huh?
September 1st, 2006 at 1:30 amTurn that big circus warped mirror of trolly fantasies against your sick reflection.
I don’t give a rat’s republican or democrat’s ass if you think this is off topic.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:52 amMy POINT goes back to what #1. DLC said…“spit-covered gay lips”
That was one of the sickest gay-bashing “OFF TOPIC” while you are so inclined in putting me in that category… CASE AND POINT… It had NOTHING to do with this “Stay The Course” BS!
For you to accuse me of being a hypocritical republican for poointing such hatred against anyone who is gay or anyone with a brain PERIOD is the most appalling hypocrisy of all TP’s history.
Question: Whats the difference between the DLC and the Republican party?
Answer: NOTHING, they’re funded by the same special interest groups.
Lets not confuse the DLC with the bonofide Liberal/Progressive Dems that kicked DLC Lieberman out.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:10 amPETRODOLLAR WARFARE OIL, IRAQ AND THE FUTURE OF THE DOLLAR
“The invasion of Iraq may well be remembered as the first oil currency war. Far from being a response to 9-11 terrorism or Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction, William R. Clark’s new book, Petrodollar Warfare Oil, Iraq and the Future of the Dollar, argues that the invasion was precipitated by two converging phenomena: the imminent peak in global oil production, and the ascendance of the euro currency.”
Continued: http://www.world-wire.com/news/1215050002.html
September 1st, 2006 at 3:16 am#67 PLC. If you don’t mind I’m changing my user name for future reference. I acidentally posted my full real name yesterday and don’t want to do it again. But I was right. I did all but agree with you “liberals” that the U.S. should not be in Iraq and begged you guys for a viable alternative to staying the course, and all you could do is call me names and yell at me for using your holy Clinton’s name in vain. Still no alternative though! Is that what defines “progressives” nowadays… Name calling? But yes, I’ll stick around for a while, I love a good political debate as long as it’s in the interest of gaining knowledge. If I wanted to be called names I could walk to my local Democrat headquarters and say “McCain in ‘08″ or ” Hillary is a witch”. Kidding of course, but it would sure save me a lot of typing.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:29 amre: 103 viable alternative to staying the course
I guess it all depends on how you define “viable.” If you mean viable in the NeoCon sense that withdrawing from Iraq would mean abandoning the oil and allowing the Iraqis to exchange oil for Euros instead of PetroDollars, it seems there is no “viable” NeoCon option to “staying the course.” However, if you’re refering to a morally and ethically viable alternative to “staying ths course” its very simple. The US should immediately withdraw from Iraq, beg the Iraqi people for forgiveness, and immediately begin reparations for an illegal war against Iraq based on lies in order to secure Iraqi oil. Since the corrupt NeoCons will never agree to this, we’ll just have to go with moral and ethical plan B: Vote all Republicans out of office as soon as possible and impeach/indict all Republicans for war crimes and crimes against the American people. It looks like we’ll be going with plan B this November.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:08 am104 So your “viable alternative” actually is CUT-AND-RUN. Handing over a war torn country to people who could not defend themselves or their new found freedom from those who use terror as a weapon… along with roadside bombs, rpg’s, and m-16’s. I would not be opposed if Iraq were to just fall to a normal style civil war (you know where those who want freedom fight against oppression). But that is not what we’re dealing with in Iraq and you know it… not admitting it to yourself doesn’t make it untrue. Then we would beg their forgiveness??? It’ll be hard to forgive anyone when you’re dead. Then we could just send them money (reparations)? I’m sure they’d use that to build schools and hospitals right? You can’t possibly be this short sighted can you? Good luck in the midterms though…lol
September 1st, 2006 at 8:21 amcoachjason
September 1st, 2006 at 8:56 amSometimes there is no “viable alternative”. If surgeons perform an operation and the patient dies, there is no “viable alternative”. If a person decides to end their emotional pain through suicide, there is no “viable alternative”. If one country invades another, ignoring the likelihood of civil unrest and sectarian violence, there is no “viable alternative”. Iraq was a powderkeg, “protected” by a dictator and the U.S. took away that dictator. Now, all the issues in that country are surfacing. While the U.S. is not responsible, entirely, for creating that underlying turmoil, why should the U.S. continue to contribute to the unrest anymore? All that is left for a “true alternative” is to leave their country and culture to them. We might be part of the solution by no longer being part of the problem.
re: 105 Republican Cut and Run means Pillage and Run
104 So your “viable alternative†actually is CUT-AND-RUN.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
I believe what you are referring to would aptly be described as “Pillage and Run.” However, I do not advocate “Pillaging and Running.” I do advocate an immedate withdrawl of US troops from Iraq and hopefully a negotation with the rest of the world to help the US clean up our mess. I’m sure the rest of the world would be willing to assist Iraq, especially the Europeans who want to exchange Oil for Euros, which is why the US invaded Iraq in the first place.
Handing over a war torn country to people who could not defend themselves or their new found freedom from those who use terror as a weapon… along with roadside bombs, rpg’s, and m-16’s.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
I would describe the act of withdrawl more akin to releasing hostages. Iraq is currently being held hostage by Republican NeoCon terrorists. Obviously they were unable to defend themselves from the Republican NeoCon terrorists. I doubt the fate of the Iraqi people would be any worse than it is now…having your country occupied by foreign invaders who launched an illegal war against you in order to steal your resources and prevent you from trading oil for euros. Whats worse than that? Obviously the people of Iraq feel terrorized and want the US invaders out of Iraq or they wouldn’t be utilizing road side bombs, etc.
I would not be opposed if Iraq were to just fall to a normal style civil war (you know where those who want freedom fight against oppression).
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
Yes, it seems the Republican NeoCons prefer Iraq and the middle east to be destabalized completely. This is a good tactic to prevent other countries from securing oil or oil contracts in the region. This keeps the oil flowing exclusively through the hands of the NeoCons as the global oil middlemen. And it forces the world to trade oil for dollars instead of euros.
But that is not what we’re dealing with in Iraq and you know it… not admitting it to yourself doesn’t make it untrue.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
Greed, pure and simple.
Then we would beg their forgiveness???
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
Yes, its the least we can do.
It’ll be hard to forgive anyone when you’re dead.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
So you think the NeoCons will leave no one left alive, no child left behind? Thats very sad indeed.
Then we could just send them money (reparations)? I’m sure they’d use that to build schools and hospitals right? You can’t possibly be this short sighted can you?
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
I see…how could I possibly believe these foreign “savages” would do anything positive with the money, which is why we should take it from them? It sounds like you want to trade them some beads for oil.
Good luck in the midterms though…lol
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
No luck needed. Just the truth and some good Americans taking the country back from the criminals that stole it.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:11 amPLC comparing the Iraq war, the war on terror, or whatever other war you want to talk about to suicide is irresponsible at best. There is a viable alternative that does involve “staying the couse” and also clearly defining the course. We complain about not giving our soldiers the equipment to fight the war. That also rings true when it comes to giving the Iraqi’s the tools to defend themselves. Why not help them to build their own army. And their own police force. Give them what they need to take a seat along side other democracies at the world table. They do not deserve the position the terrorists and the rest of the world has left them in. I’ve been there. I’ve eaten at the table of Iraqi civilians. I’ve kissed a crying Iraqi baby on the cheek. I’ve gazed into it’s eyes and prayed to God that we can give them the kind of life we enjoy eveyrday. The kind of life that they DESERVE. Leaving Iraq is not giving them up for adoption… it’s an outright abortion. I’m sorry we don’t agree on this.. that’s what makes our country great, disagreeing wholeheartedly then going out for a beer afterward. I don’t carry the apathy for liberals that you libs seem to carry for us conservatives. And, though I’m not a betting man, I’m sure I’ll be called some more names by you guys before the day is over. And that name calling will get us where??? I’m sure it won’t be to a real solution!
September 1st, 2006 at 9:21 amIndict Republicans Your distaste for those who do not share your political views has left you with the inability to think for yourself. Your left-wing talking points merit you no brownie points with anyone outside your party. After-all here you are trying to debate on a website composed of those who share your views, thereby not allowing you your own coherent thoughts. It’s sad, you’ve put conservatives in the same group that others have put blacks and gays in. You think of them as a group not worthy of anything. I actually feel sorry for you. You will tow your party line without ever adding your own personality to it. so much for our melting pot… I guess as long as it’s your pot and you don’t have to melt.
September 1st, 2006 at 9:30 amre: 105 Republican Cut and Run means Pillage and Run
104 So your “viable alternative†actually is CUT-AND-RUN.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
I believe what you are referring to would aptly be described as “Pillage and Run.†However, I do not advocate “Pillaging and Running.†I do advocate an immedate withdrawl of US troops from Iraq and hopefully a negotation with the rest of the world to help the US clean up our mess. I’m sure the rest of the world would be willing to assist Iraq, especially the Europeans who want to exchange Oil for Euros, which is why the US invaded Iraq in the first place.
those negotiations with the rest of the world just went so well with the Israel/Hezbollah conflict. How much oil have we taken from Iraq? Oh what’s that… zero? I’m sure the Euro’s will spend just fine in Iran.
Handing over a war torn country to people who could not defend themselves or their new found freedom from those who use terror as a weapon… along with roadside bombs, rpg’s, and m-16’s.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
I would describe the act of withdrawl more akin to releasing hostages. Iraq is currently being held hostage by Republican NeoCon terrorists. Obviously they were unable to defend themselves from the Republican NeoCon terrorists. I doubt the fate of the Iraqi people would be any worse than it is now…having your country occupied by foreign invaders who launched an illegal war against you in order to steal your resources and prevent you from trading oil for euros. Whats worse than that? Obviously the people of Iraq feel terrorized and want the US invaders out of Iraq or they wouldn’t be utilizing road side bombs, etc.
Glad to know you can speak for the Iraqi’s… are you one? Have you ever spent one minute with one? If you had I’m sure your tune would change. The people of Iraq already felt terrorized, most (that I’ve met) are willing to sacrifice during this war to get their freedom.
I would not be opposed if Iraq were to just fall to a normal style civil war (you know where those who want freedom fight against oppression).
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
Yes, it seems the Republican NeoCons prefer Iraq and the middle east to be destabalized completely. This is a good tactic to prevent other countries from securing oil or oil contracts in the region. This keeps the oil flowing exclusively through the hands of the NeoCons as the global oil middlemen. And it forces the world to trade oil for dollars instead of euros.
Still stuck on oil huh? another ultralib talking point with no proven merit. Yes we protected oil fields. It’s the Iraqi’s main source of livelihood. I guess you’d rather see the American dollar worth nothing compared to the Euro. Heck, maybe we should just turn control of America right back over to Mother England?
But that is not what we’re dealing with in Iraq and you know it… not admitting it to yourself doesn’t make it untrue.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
Greed, pure and simple.
Freedom, more pure… less simple
Then we would beg their forgiveness???
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
Yes, its the least we can do.
no need for forgiveness when you can give them something to thank you for.
It’ll be hard to forgive anyone when you’re dead.
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
So you think the NeoCons will leave no one left alive, no child left behind? Thats very sad indeed. terrorist will leave no one behind… much like you’d kill every baby and conservative if they were all unable to defend themselves.
Then we could just send them money (reparations)? I’m sure they’d use that to build schools and hospitals right? You can’t possibly be this short sighted can you?
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
I see…how could I possibly believe these foreign “savages†would do anything positive with the money, which is why we should take it from them? It sounds like you want to trade them some beads for oil.
Maybe they’ll try their best to build a stadium for an NFL Europe team.
Good luck in the midterms though…lol
Comment by coachjason — September 1, 2006 @ 8:21 am
No luck needed. Just the truth and some good Americans taking the country back from the criminals that stole it.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:30 amBelieve me, you still need luck. And you need to keep suppressing military votes like Ed Rendell did in Pennsylvania. What he did blows away what you think Ken Blackwell did in Ohio. Do some more homework, and read something than the liberal playbook.
sexual preference is not an issue of mine, nor did i bring it to light.
at issue is the sterotyping of communities – regardless of race, creed, religion, sexual preference.
to condemn others for actions, yet turn around and produce like actions – is very elitist, and just silly at best.
live in hypocracy, all you desire – but don’t be surprised when others laugh.
September 1st, 2006 at 11:39 amas i re-read your last post, Markly, seems there to be a misunderstanding.
not accusing you of pointing hatred at anyone.
i am accusing you of sterotyping a community, in this instance the named progressive community.
you have sterotyped a community as the majority turning a blind eye.
in both your issue with DLC and mine issue with you, there exist the issue of sterotyping a community.
you cried foul when someone does it, yet you choose to do the same.
how could you justify this? how do you know blind eyes are turned? do you know what others think in their mind behind the LCD? do you have telepathy that feeds you this information?
ask yourself these questions, please, before sterotyping communities – for whatever your reason.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:46 pm#114 – MFR,
September 1st, 2006 at 9:05 pmWhile coachjason is a bit off the wall, that was a bit cruel. I can take him at his word that he was on an 8 month stint in Iraq, I doubt it, but casualty numbers by unit do sometimes bring our service men and women stateside in some cases. In Nam, the number was 50% combo (disabled plus dead) or 30% dead, after that esprit de corps sinks to depression.
#116 – IFMR,
September 1st, 2006 at 11:58 pmI am merely against calling anyone a baby killer without justification. It is one of my sore points. That term or implication evokes a most horrendous and thoughtless image.
Nym,
September 3rd, 2006 at 9:44 amIf sexual orientation is not an issue of yours and you’re the only one laughing… Go back to your ugly righteous self and leave me alone will you?
It is easy to see from your attacks that you have it for gays and just want to silence my outrage against what happened earlier. You’re a fool.
# 118 NeoCon Baby killing in Iraq So you want to bring this discussion down to babykilling… Here’s some real statistics for you How many? During the 1980s and 1990s total abortions in the U.S. stayed about 1,550,000 annually, slowly decreasing in the 1990s. Note that the Guttmacher Institute reported that 10% of known abortion providers did not report. Adding 10% to its 1,550,000 equals 1,700,000. The total reported slowly decreased in the 1990s. When the unreported abortions are added (income tax evasion, cover-up for privacy, etc.), a figure of 1,800,000 may be more realistic. Live births have hovered just under 4,000,000. Therefore: Almost every third baby conceived in America is killed by abortion. 112 Abortion Surveillance U.S. 1988 Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, July 1991. S.K. Henshaw et al., “Abortion Services in the U.S., 1987-1988,” Family Planning Perspectives, Vol. 22, No. 3 (May-June 1990), p. 103. So Now if we’re going to compare baby-killing methods, blood is on your hands too. But,like a typical coward, NCBKiI loves to point out the err of others ways and deny his own.
September 5th, 2006 at 8:07 ammarley, how many times can you possibly twist your strange reality?
i won’t let the issue die, sorry, you’re a hypocrit.
fool i might be for giving you the benifit of the doubt for rationalization.
clearly you don’t seem to be able to read – perhaps even understand english. you interject left field wedge issues. and i still believe your a plant ( on many levels )
attack, nah, have not even began.
just pointing out your incredible double standards and hypocracy.
September 14th, 2006 at 3:30 pmoh, marley
i forgot to add, your using another right wing tactic:
argumentum ad misericordiam
the appeal to pity.
you are a hypocrit, plant, and stooge.
September 14th, 2006 at 7:10 pmYeah shut it Marley you big poofta!
September 25th, 2006 at 10:46 pm