2653 US killed in Iraq
333 US killed in Afghanistan
227 US Civillian Contractors Killed in Iraq
851 US Wounded in Afghanistan
19323 US wounded in Iraq
232 Coalition Troops killed in Iraq
136 Coalition Troops killed in Afghanistan
122 Coalition Civillian Contractors killed in Iraq
Total 3703 Killed on this war on terror ( aledgedly )
Cost of war to America £1052 per man woman and child in America
and dont forget the running costs of the wounded still to be added on for years and years to come
Lastly about 175,000 Iraqies killed of which 100,000 are women and children
Did anyone catch George W. Bush’s radio address last Saturday? According to Dubya, if we cut and run from Iraq, the entire civilized world will fall to Muslim terrorists who still don’t have the nuclear bomb and are vastly outnumbered by US forces.
Thanks Tobey, sorry got my numbers wrong from memory 2973 died on 9-11. 2986 US GIs killed. But now that you mention it (and I believe you have before), there is no reason to leave off coalition and contractors. The end result, we’ve killed more people and still haven’t brought the masterminds of 9-11 any closer to justice. A disgrace for the republicans and that idiot they call president.
Significantly for an independent-minded people unused to cooperation of any kind, the Taliban movement has been joined by many other political and tribal groups to form a national resistance against foreign occupation. Prominent among them: Hisbi Islami, led by former CIA protege Gulbadin Hekmatyar, the most effective guerilla leader in the 1980’s anti-Soviet jihad, and renowned mujahidin leader, Jallaludin Haqqani.
Small numbers of foreign jihadis have also come to fight. Most important, growing numbers of “khels,” or clans of the Pashtun (Pathan) tribe–the world’s largest tribal group, numbering 40 million–have joined the resistance. Pashtuns comprise half Afghanistan’s 30 million population. Another 28 million Pushtuns live just across the border, known as the Durand Line, in Pakistan. The Durand Line is an artificial border created, like so many others in Africa and Asia, by British imperialists. Most Afghans reject the legality of the line, which sunders their people.
The U.S./NATO campaign is increasingly directed against warlike Pashtun tribes like the Afridi and Orokzai, and their civilians, rather than against so-called “Taliban terrorists.” However, distinguishing between “Taliban militants” and ordinary farmers or merchants is extremely difficult from fast-flying fighter aircraft and attack helicopters. The U.S./NATO policy seems to be shoot or bomb first, then label the casualties as “terrorists” or “collateral damage caused by Taliban hiding in civilian homes.”
Until recently, million of dollars in monthly cash bribes from CIA to Afghan warlords kept key areas under nominal authority of the U.S.-installed Karzai regime. The writ of this long-time CIA “asset” barely extends beyond the capitol, Kabul. Only Western bayonets keep him in office. Karzai’s popularity among Afghans is best judged by the fact that he is constantly surrounded by 100-200 U.S. bodyguards kept just out of range of western TV cameras.
And with today’s news I guess we need to add more, in this case very unfortunately needlessly:
U.S. warplanes mistakenly strafed Canadian troops fighting Taliban forces in southern Afghanistan, killing one soldier and seriously wounding five on Monday in an operation that NATO claims has also left 200 insurgents dead.
More than 20 others were killed across Afghanistan, including a British soldier and four Afghans in a Kabul suicide bombing, amid a bloody contest between resurgent Taliban militants and U.S. and NATO forces trying to end the deadliest spate of violence since the pro-al-Qaida Taliban regime’s 2001 ouster.
Monday’s death took to five the number of Canadian soldiers killed since an anti-Taliban campaign, dubbed Operation Medusa, was launched Saturday in southern Kandahar province’s Panjwayi district, long a hotbed of insurgent activity. Some 32 Canadian soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002.
NATO said the friendly fire incident happened after ground troops battling Taliban militants requested air support.
“Two ISAF aircraft provided the support but regrettably engaged friendly forces during a strafing run, using cannons,” NATO said in a statement. NATO later identified the planes as US A-10 Thunderbolts.
U.S. military spokesman Sgt. Chris Miller confirmed that U.S. planes were involved.
To TP ……… thank you for quoting from the Independent newspaper this is the first time I have seen you link to a foreign paper….. well done……. keep it up
“The report said in the period since the establishment of an Iraqi government in mid-May and 11 August, Iraqi civilian and security personnel have been killed at a rate of around 120 a day. This is an increase from around 80 a day between mid-February to mid-May. Two years ago the number stood at 30 a day. Calculated over a year, the most recent rate of killings would equal more than 43,000 Iraqi casualties. ”
43,000 Iraqis is equivelant to 500,000 Americans when compared to the populations of these two countries. Would any reasonable person put up with 500,000 such deaths in America in any year?
I don’t care what you call it, but 43,000 Iraqi deaths is not progress. Another reference point. In 2004, the last year for complete statistics, 2200+ deaths were attributed to handguns in California, a state only 40% more populated than Iraq.
By the time that Bush leaves office, human body fluids will be considered too hazardous to bring into the passenger cabin of an airliner. Before boarding, all passengers will be drained of all:
Blood
Bile
Urine
Feces
Lymph Fluid
Stomach Acid
Spinal Fluid
and in the case of lactating females, Mother’s Milk.
The fluids will be carried in armor plated containers in the hold and rejoined with the passengers at their final destination. Naturally, with the airlines record on baggage handling, there will be a few mistakes. This action, will, of course, affect the profit line of domestic airlines.
I’m sorry, I don’t have a more constructive comment than that. I just don’t understand why more people can’t see that what is being done obviously isn’t working, hasn’t achieved its initial objectives and the price we pay is a significant loss of human life (including innocent lives).
72,265. Number of lives lost since 2001, in an “epidemic of global terrorism.â€
Wow…Do you mean to tell me that ThinkProgress and its readers have FINALLY begun to realize that terrorism is a very real and deadly threat???? Well, that’s good….Good for you for finally catching up with the rest of us….You’re five years late, but welcome to reality, nonetheless.
#23 72,265. Number of lives lost since 2001, in an “epidemic of global terrorism.â€
Wow…Do you mean to tell me that ThinkProgress and its readers have FINALLY begun to realize that terrorism is a very real and deadly threat???? Well, that’s good….Good for you for finally catching up with the rest of us….You’re five years late, but welcome to reality, nonetheless.
Comment by Exley — September 4, 2006 @ 4:04 pm
Exley, do us a favor and READ the article, you idiot:
Far from ending terrorism, George Bush’s tactics of using overwhelming military might to fight extremism appear to have rebounded, spawning an epidemic of global terrorism that has claimed an estimated 72,265 lives since 2001, most of them Iraqi civilians.
The rest, some 30,626, according to official US figures, have been killed in a combination of terror attacks and counter-insurgency actions by the US and its allies. The figures were compiled by the US based National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism (Mipt).
Those 72,000+ people have been killed in Iraq. Realizing that there have been no WMD discovered in Iraq, and Iraq had nothing ado with Al Qaeda pryor to the USA invasion, all 72,265 lives lost are direct responsability of the USA. The other 30,000+ are “collateral damage”.
That’s 100,000 innocent people dead thanks to the blind policy of the USA GOP.
I’m yet unsure if I must be proud of admirer imposters… they’re so slimey… and tend to project their own desires in other people…
BTW, my only true posts are 26, 31 and this one. Now I’m going home and I’ll go to bed early tonight. Minor surgery tomorrow. Would be back in few days.
“No stages. This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq … this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don’t try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war … our children will sing great songs about us years from now.†Michael Ledeen (AEI neocon). Does this sound like a man that gives a damn about human life?
Couldn’t TP provide a password field in the leave-a-comment area or block all posts that have a mismatch in the E-mail address field? I altered the Name field for this post, only.
The State Dept reports 11,111 terrorist incidents in 2005. 30% are reported from Iraq. Only half of the incidents involved loss of life, more than 14,600 noncombatants were killed, a majority of them in Iraq alone and 80 percent in the Near East and South Asia. American nonmilitary deaths totaled 56.
The number of “high fatality incidents” around the world, excluding Iraq, was among the few statistics in the report that decreased from 2004 — when attacks in places such as Russia and Madrid killed hundreds — to 2005.
But in Iraq, such incidents — defined as those resulting in 10 or more deaths — increased from 65 to 150, with a doubling of fatalities. Overall, there were 3,500 attacks in Iraq, up from 866 in 2004.
Most fatalities were attributed to armed attacks and bombings. None occurred in the United States or used weapons of mass destruction, and “no attacks approached the sophistication of those on 9/11,” the NCTC statistical analysis concluded.
So why is this an epidemic? It largely doesn’t involve US citiens other than military in Iraq. None involve WMDs and very few involve more than 10 deaths at once. I mean every death is regretable but inflaming the “Terrorist Epidemic” propoganda is counterproductive to ending the problem. Divide 14,600 people killed by 6.5 billion for the percentage killed by terrorists. I’m sure cardiovascular disease, motor vehicle accidents, starvation kill a lot larger percentage of the world’s population and no one seems to care.
It has been my contention for some time that somewhere over comment number 50, just to pick a spot, the old frustrated Citizen Band (CB) radio-ers revert to their forgotten habits and truck driving days and raise a little hell for the night. We are all guilty, at times, of a little personal banter with friends or pushing the bounds of decency with the trolls, but it usually isn’t disruptive, and is enjoyable to just more that the participants because of our history here on TP. However, you are correct that TP should be responsible for maintaining a degree of decorum consistent with the subject matter.
I will repeat a comment from another post today because I think it is fitting: Youth will yield to age, immaturity to majority, drunkenness to sobriety, ignorance to education but stupid is forever. Long live the trolls.
I do owe TP an apology, I think. Three times I have been unable to connect to TP for some days at a time. I thought I had been banned but this weekend my grandson discovered my wireless WIFi unit had been built by A Chinese Republican. We upgraded the unit and TP is back. I apologize to TP and others who were concerned: Trueblue, Zooey, Juan, Marie, and my other friends (You know who you are!) Its good to be back.
“Of course the people don’t want war, but after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.â€
The district where the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar, was born, south-west of Kandahar, is again under Taliban control, a situation mirrored across large swaths of the south of the country.
Man we are gonna have to send in the first string..Okay Bush Admin and Senate/Reps its time to vest up and take your know it all meritocracy asses to Iraq and show us sheeple how its done!!
The number of dead US soldiiers is not enough. The number needs to be higher than hell. Forty, fifty thousand maybe. By then, there will be critical mass. Then everybody can quit fighting and go home.
It’ll probably take another ten years or so. Folks will be so tired of it, politicians won’t dare show their faces, the pariahs they’ve become and will be.
GOP Congress blocked Clinton push for anti-terror legislation
by John in DC – 9/04/2006 11:10:00 AM
CNN, July 30, 1996
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, “These are very controversial provisions that the [Clinton] White House wants. Some they’re not going to get.” ….[Hatch] also said he had some problems with the president’s proposals to expand wiretapping.
So Bill Clinton, rather than just breaking the law as Bush did (then again, perhaps this is why Bush broke the law – he knew from history that the Republicans controlling the congress would oppose his efforts to expand wiretapping), decided to go to the Republican congress in 1996 and ask them for increased authority to do more eavesdropping in order to stop the terrorists – stop September 11. Senior Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, one of the GOP’s top picks for the Supreme Court and a GOP committee chair, objected.
The Republicans stopped President Clinton from getting all the tools he needed to stop the next September 11 – well, no, actually they opposed giving President Clinton all the tools he needed to stop the actual September 11. Could September 11 have been stopped if the GOP had given President Clinton the tools he requested to stop Osama and Mohammad Atta from killing 3,000 people in New York, Pennsylvania and Washington?
Maybe we need to ask the Republicans up for re-election why they wanted to appease the terrorists?
President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess.
“We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue,” Clinton said during a White House news conference.
But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures.
There’s even an audio clip of President Clinton practically begging the Republicans to give him the tools he needed to stop Osama and the terrorists. Trent Lott said no. Orrin Hatch said no. Do these men really deserve to run the Congress during a time of war?
George Soros (The Boston Globe – Thursday 31 August 2006) “The failure of Israel to subdue Hezbollah demonstrates the many weaknesses of the war-on-terror concept. One of those weaknesses is that even if the targets are terrorists, the victims are often innocent civilians, and their suffering reinforces the terrorist cause.
George Soros has a good point in claiming that the pre-emptive strike on Iraq and Israel and Jordanian’s so-called ‘fight on terror’ are just reinforcing the terrorist cause and creating more terrorist wannabees. However, he forgets one most important logic: It was never the aim to eradicate terrorism…. It was the aim to CREATE terrorism, and they’re doing a hechuva job. Bush needs terrorism to fight his wars and to make his o so scared base believe he’s the healer of the world (me good, they bad!), but in fact he’s only creating a WW so he can 1. steal US treasury through the defense budget and builders’ contracts and 2. finally make up for the loss of face his father suffered in the Gulf War by taking Saddam down and taking his oil for war looth.
Having lost the Iraq war, the neoconservatives are determined to initiate war with Iran.
The neoconservatives plan to plunge America into war with Iran before they can be held accountable for the lost war in Iraq.
This neoconservative conspiracy against the United States and Iran must be stopped. Neocons must be removed from the government that they have betrayed and be held accountable for their crimes.
Before America can preach democracy to the world, we must first rescue American democracy from the Bush regime and reestablish government accountability to the people.
New war totals Revised from new reseach by Me to include Afghanistan civillians too
2653 US killed in Iraq
333 US killed in Afghanistan
227 US Civillian Contractors Killed in Iraq
851 US Wounded in Afghanistan
19323 US wounded in Iraq
232 Coalition Troops killed in Iraq
136 Coalition Troops killed in Afghanistan
122 Coalition Civillian Contractors killed in Iraq
3485 Afghan Civillian Dead, 3103 were killed between 07/10/01 and 07/12/01 by American Bombs,
8587 Afghan Troops Killed
25761 Afghan Wounded
216,676 Iraqis killed
390,017 Iraqis wounded
Total Killing All = 232,451
Total Wounded All = 435,101
PS these do not include Coalition wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan as I cannot find the details
To the Neocon Republicans are you proud of these figures as you do not do bodycounts ,
When a state consciously makes a decision to go war, it means that a license to murder has been given. Its the most serious decision a state can make. Its a decision that must be made as a last resort when all else has failed.
Those who make that decision for any other reason are War Criminals.
To simply let off those who made the decisons that have resulted in the murderous chaos that the Iraq fiasco has become is in the same spirit, but not the same degree, as letting off the Nazis at Nuremberg.
Try to put your tribal loyalties to one side, be it My Country right or wrong, or The Party that I love, or even Our Beloved Leader, and then you can see this.
Fortunately, Nicholas Kristoff of the NY Times doesn’t mind going back to work and he kicks off the week with a great article about the Bush administration’s desecration of Teddy Roosevelt’s environmental legacy in “Staining the Land Forever.â€
The trolls really are pathetic. Now they have to resort to hijacking IDs to try to make people look bad.
Trolling 101 (aka Republicans Never Lie, Can Do No Wrong, Never Admit To Anything. Clinton Did It)
- studiously ignore the original topic.
- ignore any video evidence presented in said topic.
- resort to namecalling and insulting people
- use several different ID’s to stage name calling and stupid arguing
- impersonate others using same ID to try to trash them
- attempt to derail topic and cause general mess using above techniques
- totally ignore and never ever accept anything which proves you wrong
- come back every single day to this site to do it
- suppress the nagging thoughts at the back of your mind which say “why am I so scared of this site and these people that I need to come here every day to resort to this crap to protect my fragile psyche?”
Under the Nuremberg standard, Bush is definitely a war criminal. The U.S. Supreme Court also exposed Bush to war crimes charges under both the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996 and the Geneva Conventions when the Court ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld against the Bush administration’s military tribunals and inhumane treatment of detainees.
President Bush and his attorney general agree that under existing laws and treaties Bush is a war criminal together with many members of his government. To make his war crimes legal after the fact, Bush has instructed the Justice (sic) Department to draft changes to the War Crimes Act and to U.S. treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions.
To justify its ill-advised invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration regularly gripes about Saddam Hussein’s war crimes, while cheering on Israel as it does the same thing in Lebanon and Gaza, just using different weapons.
#64 Does it really matter if it were 500,000 or 50,000? It’s still far more innocent people than were killed on US soil several years go. Arguably directly as a result of the invasion and occupation. Seems more people have died under “liberation” than they did previously.
Trolls don’t like numbers. They get confused when the figures conflict with their prepackaged talking points.
Comment by mparker — September 4, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
That’s only about twice the number of automotive deaths in China and less than half the number of people killed by firearms every year.
You would of course have realised that the majority of that number of deaths has been inflicted by terrorists in the name of insurgency campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. Probably only would have been a couple of thousand if everyone ignored 9/11 and every other terrorist attack in the past few year and just didn’t respond militarily.
Think there may have been a poll or two of the US public to guage just how people felt about that at the time. Clear majorities. You recall those numbers ?
You were the troll then. Trolls being those who pretend to hold a minority and unpopular opinion for the purpose of causing friction or arguement with the majority.
70,000 DEAD IN MID-EAST AUGERS GLAD TIDINGS IN WAR AGAINST TERRORISM
Professor Adolph von Euclid revealed today new math formulations which indicate that continuing massive deaths in the Middle East herald increasing success in the war on terror.
The newly revealed postulates show that at present for each thousand miscarnaged civilians nine point seven terrorists are killed. An ancillary formulation to the miscarnaged postulates shows that in near simultanity seventeen new terrorists are created per thousand miscarnagees resulting in a dead/arisen terrorist ratio of negative fifty seven per cent, plus or minus an Arab or two either way.
Using Third Reichean formulae, adjusted for lack of Jews in the study, genocidal statistics show that the percentage of new terrorists per thousand expunged civilians will eventually peak at thirty one point eight while the the number of terrorists killed per thousand collateral accidentists non linearly increases due to the massive influx of new terrorists and the time honored normal war time change in methods of recording dead, dead, dead people.
The so postulated formulaic conclusion is that at two hundred twelve thousand innocents slaughtered the terrorist dead to terrorists arisen ratio should geometrically swoop into the positive range heralding a pleasant advance in the war on terror:
The number of people killed during 9/11 was also revised. I thought that was hilarious too “Excellent! Laughed out loud at that one…” as you say. Not so funny now is it?? Jerk.
we’ve killed way more then UBL and al qaeda. TAKE THAT OSAMA.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:33 pmWe don’t DO body counts.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:38 pmThe important body count is the 2074 US GIs who have been killed since invading Iraq. A number greater than the number that died in the 9/11 attack.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:40 pm4/ bones …shite
New war totals
2653 US killed in Iraq
333 US killed in Afghanistan
227 US Civillian Contractors Killed in Iraq
851 US Wounded in Afghanistan
19323 US wounded in Iraq
232 Coalition Troops killed in Iraq
136 Coalition Troops killed in Afghanistan
122 Coalition Civillian Contractors killed in Iraq
Total 3703 Killed on this war on terror ( aledgedly )
Cost of war to America £1052 per man woman and child in America
and dont forget the running costs of the wounded still to be added on for years and years to come
Lastly about 175,000 Iraqies killed of which 100,000 are women and children
September 4th, 2006 at 2:46 pmI want to hear from the trolls why this is good.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:50 pmDid anyone catch George W. Bush’s radio address last Saturday? According to Dubya, if we cut and run from Iraq, the entire civilized world will fall to Muslim terrorists who still don’t have the nuclear bomb and are vastly outnumbered by US forces.
Well, here’s my response.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:02 pmI want to hear from the trolls why this is good.
Comment by RealScientist
C’mon, doncha know?
We’re spreading Democracy!
Freedom is on the march! (and if you don’t do what we say we’ll march right over your ass, assault your women and kill your families…)
September 4th, 2006 at 3:04 pmforgot the sarcasm thing – you guys know I’m not a troll, right?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:05 pm:)
Trolls don’t like numbers. They get confused when the figures conflict with their prepackaged talking points.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:06 pmThanks Tobey, sorry got my numbers wrong from memory 2973 died on 9-11. 2986 US GIs killed. But now that you mention it (and I believe you have before), there is no reason to leave off coalition and contractors. The end result, we’ve killed more people and still haven’t brought the masterminds of 9-11 any closer to justice. A disgrace for the republicans and that idiot they call president.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:06 pmCall this winning the war on terror I call it cutting and running
Significantly for an independent-minded people unused to cooperation of any kind, the Taliban movement has been joined by many other political and tribal groups to form a national resistance against foreign occupation. Prominent among them: Hisbi Islami, led by former CIA protege Gulbadin Hekmatyar, the most effective guerilla leader in the 1980’s anti-Soviet jihad, and renowned mujahidin leader, Jallaludin Haqqani.
Small numbers of foreign jihadis have also come to fight. Most important, growing numbers of “khels,” or clans of the Pashtun (Pathan) tribe–the world’s largest tribal group, numbering 40 million–have joined the resistance. Pashtuns comprise half Afghanistan’s 30 million population. Another 28 million Pushtuns live just across the border, known as the Durand Line, in Pakistan. The Durand Line is an artificial border created, like so many others in Africa and Asia, by British imperialists. Most Afghans reject the legality of the line, which sunders their people.
The U.S./NATO campaign is increasingly directed against warlike Pashtun tribes like the Afridi and Orokzai, and their civilians, rather than against so-called “Taliban terrorists.” However, distinguishing between “Taliban militants” and ordinary farmers or merchants is extremely difficult from fast-flying fighter aircraft and attack helicopters. The U.S./NATO policy seems to be shoot or bomb first, then label the casualties as “terrorists” or “collateral damage caused by Taliban hiding in civilian homes.”
Until recently, million of dollars in monthly cash bribes from CIA to Afghan warlords kept key areas under nominal authority of the U.S.-installed Karzai regime. The writ of this long-time CIA “asset” barely extends beyond the capitol, Kabul. Only Western bayonets keep him in office. Karzai’s popularity among Afghans is best judged by the fact that he is constantly surrounded by 100-200 U.S. bodyguards kept just out of range of western TV cameras.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:06 pmBush has another milestone, or is that millstone in his presiduncy.
The combined deaths from Iraq and Afghanistan have surpassed those killed on 9/11.
Heckuva job Decider.
-GSD
September 4th, 2006 at 3:09 pmAnd with today’s news I guess we need to add more, in this case very unfortunately needlessly:
U.S. warplanes mistakenly strafed Canadian troops fighting Taliban forces in southern Afghanistan, killing one soldier and seriously wounding five on Monday in an operation that NATO claims has also left 200 insurgents dead.
More than 20 others were killed across Afghanistan, including a British soldier and four Afghans in a Kabul suicide bombing, amid a bloody contest between resurgent Taliban militants and U.S. and NATO forces trying to end the deadliest spate of violence since the pro-al-Qaida Taliban regime’s 2001 ouster.
Monday’s death took to five the number of Canadian soldiers killed since an anti-Taliban campaign, dubbed Operation Medusa, was launched Saturday in southern Kandahar province’s Panjwayi district, long a hotbed of insurgent activity. Some 32 Canadian soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002.
NATO said the friendly fire incident happened after ground troops battling Taliban militants requested air support.
“Two ISAF aircraft provided the support but regrettably engaged friendly forces during a strafing run, using cannons,” NATO said in a statement. NATO later identified the planes as US A-10 Thunderbolts.
U.S. military spokesman Sgt. Chris Miller confirmed that U.S. planes were involved.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:13 pmTo TP ……… thank you for quoting from the Independent newspaper this is the first time I have seen you link to a foreign paper….. well done……. keep it up
September 4th, 2006 at 3:29 pmFrom the article:
“The report said in the period since the establishment of an Iraqi government in mid-May and 11 August, Iraqi civilian and security personnel have been killed at a rate of around 120 a day. This is an increase from around 80 a day between mid-February to mid-May. Two years ago the number stood at 30 a day. Calculated over a year, the most recent rate of killings would equal more than 43,000 Iraqi casualties. ”
43,000 Iraqis is equivelant to 500,000 Americans when compared to the populations of these two countries. Would any reasonable person put up with 500,000 such deaths in America in any year?
I don’t care what you call it, but 43,000 Iraqi deaths is not progress. Another reference point. In 2004, the last year for complete statistics, 2200+ deaths were attributed to handguns in California, a state only 40% more populated than Iraq.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:30 pmBy the time that Bush leaves office, human body fluids will be considered too hazardous to bring into the passenger cabin of an airliner. Before boarding, all passengers will be drained of all:
Blood
Bile
Urine
Feces
Lymph Fluid
Stomach Acid
Spinal Fluid
and in the case of lactating females, Mother’s Milk.
The fluids will be carried in armor plated containers in the hold and rejoined with the passengers at their final destination. Naturally, with the airlines record on baggage handling, there will be a few mistakes. This action, will, of course, affect the profit line of domestic airlines.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:30 pmGod, that’s depressing…
I’m sorry, I don’t have a more constructive comment than that. I just don’t understand why more people can’t see that what is being done obviously isn’t working, hasn’t achieved its initial objectives and the price we pay is a significant loss of human life (including innocent lives).
September 4th, 2006 at 3:32 pm#19 – dixie blood,
September 4th, 2006 at 3:42 pmI thought that all the MSM gives you is shit.
This is a paper argueing against the “Official” report of the Towers, if you care to look.
(and you can read it en espanol, Juan! )
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
September 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pmWHOOPS! Wrong thread! Sorry, guys!
September 4th, 2006 at 3:47 pm72,265. Number of lives lost since 2001, in an “epidemic of global terrorism.â€
Wow…Do you mean to tell me that ThinkProgress and its readers have FINALLY begun to realize that terrorism is a very real and deadly threat???? Well, that’s good….Good for you for finally catching up with the rest of us….You’re five years late, but welcome to reality, nonetheless.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:04 pm#11
Bones,
We have been close a number of times–look at the number two guys we have captured! Do two number twos make one number one?
Stupid is forever. Long live the king!
September 4th, 2006 at 4:16 pmUnfortunately for us, Bush has made thousands of number twos, both Al Queda terrorists and brain droppings.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:26 pm#23 72,265. Number of lives lost since 2001, in an “epidemic of global terrorism.â€
Wow…Do you mean to tell me that ThinkProgress and its readers have FINALLY begun to realize that terrorism is a very real and deadly threat???? Well, that’s good….Good for you for finally catching up with the rest of us….You’re five years late, but welcome to reality, nonetheless.
Comment by Exley — September 4, 2006 @ 4:04 pm
Exley, do us a favor and READ the article, you idiot:
Far from ending terrorism, George Bush’s tactics of using overwhelming military might to fight extremism appear to have rebounded, spawning an epidemic of global terrorism that has claimed an estimated 72,265 lives since 2001, most of them Iraqi civilians.
The rest, some 30,626, according to official US figures, have been killed in a combination of terror attacks and counter-insurgency actions by the US and its allies. The figures were compiled by the US based National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism (Mipt).
Those 72,000+ people have been killed in Iraq. Realizing that there have been no WMD discovered in Iraq, and Iraq had nothing ado with Al Qaeda pryor to the USA invasion, all 72,265 lives lost are direct responsability of the USA. The other 30,000+ are “collateral damage”.
That’s 100,000 innocent people dead thanks to the blind policy of the USA GOP.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:29 pm#29 It’s not mine.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pmI’m yet unsure if I must be proud of admirer imposters… they’re so slimey… and tend to project their own desires in other people…
BTW, my only true posts are 26, 31 and this one. Now I’m going home and I’ll go to bed early tonight. Minor surgery tomorrow. Would be back in few days.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pm“No stages. This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq … this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don’t try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war … our children will sing great songs about us years from now.†Michael Ledeen (AEI neocon). Does this sound like a man that gives a damn about human life?
September 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pmCouldn’t TP provide a password field in the leave-a-comment area or block all posts that have a mismatch in the E-mail address field? I altered the Name field for this post, only.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:17 pm#38 IQ187
With a name like that you should do it for TP!
I am still Clyde. Nobody likes me enough to assume my name. Feel flattered!
September 4th, 2006 at 5:25 pm72,265.
That’s the number they admit to, anyway.
I’m glad to see the article lays this where it belongs — at the feet of George W. Bush.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:57 pmI say “Bring it on”, after I’m done reading my Camus and my three Shakespeare’s.
-George McWarlod ChimpenfuhrerdouchenBush
September 4th, 2006 at 6:11 pmTerrorist epidemic?
The State Dept reports 11,111 terrorist incidents in 2005. 30% are reported from Iraq. Only half of the incidents involved loss of life, more than 14,600 noncombatants were killed, a majority of them in Iraq alone and 80 percent in the Near East and South Asia. American nonmilitary deaths totaled 56.
The number of “high fatality incidents” around the world, excluding Iraq, was among the few statistics in the report that decreased from 2004 — when attacks in places such as Russia and Madrid killed hundreds — to 2005.
But in Iraq, such incidents — defined as those resulting in 10 or more deaths — increased from 65 to 150, with a doubling of fatalities. Overall, there were 3,500 attacks in Iraq, up from 866 in 2004.
Most fatalities were attributed to armed attacks and bombings. None occurred in the United States or used weapons of mass destruction, and “no attacks approached the sophistication of those on 9/11,” the NCTC statistical analysis concluded.
So why is this an epidemic? It largely doesn’t involve US citiens other than military in Iraq. None involve WMDs and very few involve more than 10 deaths at once. I mean every death is regretable but inflaming the “Terrorist Epidemic” propoganda is counterproductive to ending the problem. Divide 14,600 people killed by 6.5 billion for the percentage killed by terrorists. I’m sure cardiovascular disease, motor vehicle accidents, starvation kill a lot larger percentage of the world’s population and no one seems to care.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:20 pmDixie Blood,
It has been my contention for some time that somewhere over comment number 50, just to pick a spot, the old frustrated Citizen Band (CB) radio-ers revert to their forgotten habits and truck driving days and raise a little hell for the night. We are all guilty, at times, of a little personal banter with friends or pushing the bounds of decency with the trolls, but it usually isn’t disruptive, and is enjoyable to just more that the participants because of our history here on TP. However, you are correct that TP should be responsible for maintaining a degree of decorum consistent with the subject matter.
I will repeat a comment from another post today because I think it is fitting: Youth will yield to age, immaturity to majority, drunkenness to sobriety, ignorance to education but stupid is forever. Long live the trolls.
I do owe TP an apology, I think. Three times I have been unable to connect to TP for some days at a time. I thought I had been banned but this weekend my grandson discovered my wireless WIFi unit had been built by A Chinese Republican. We upgraded the unit and TP is back. I apologize to TP and others who were concerned: Trueblue, Zooey, Juan, Marie, and my other friends (You know who you are!) Its good to be back.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:26 pm“Of course the people don’t want war, but after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.â€
Herman Goering,
September 4th, 2006 at 6:31 pmNuremberg, 1946.
Its good to be back.
Comment by Clyde the Ripper
And here was me, thinking you’d gone and gotten a life, unlike the rest of us. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 7:01 pmWould be back in few days.
Comment by Evil Spaniard
Good luck with that, Evil. Take care.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:04 pmWhen is Mary Cheney going to fight her evil father’s war? She 37 years old. When is she going to enlist?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:02 pmThe district where the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar, was born, south-west of Kandahar, is again under Taliban control, a situation mirrored across large swaths of the south of the country.
Man we are gonna have to send in the first string..Okay Bush Admin and Senate/Reps its time to vest up and take your know it all meritocracy asses to Iraq and show us sheeple how its done!!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:36 pmThe number of dead US soldiiers is not enough. The number needs to be higher than hell. Forty, fifty thousand maybe. By then, there will be critical mass. Then everybody can quit fighting and go home.
It’ll probably take another ten years or so. Folks will be so tired of it, politicians won’t dare show their faces, the pariahs they’ve become and will be.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:38 pmIt is amazing that Bill Clinton’s penis was unable to stop all of this terrorism.
Damn his penis!
-The Republican Amen Corner
September 4th, 2006 at 11:34 pmWhy do we kill people
September 5th, 2006 at 12:44 amWho kill people
To show that killing people is bad?
How many were killed in Vietnam?
September 5th, 2006 at 1:09 amGOP Congress blocked Clinton push for anti-terror legislation
by John in DC – 9/04/2006 11:10:00 AM
CNN, July 30, 1996
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, “These are very controversial provisions that the [Clinton] White House wants. Some they’re not going to get.” ….[Hatch] also said he had some problems with the president’s proposals to expand wiretapping.
So Bill Clinton, rather than just breaking the law as Bush did (then again, perhaps this is why Bush broke the law – he knew from history that the Republicans controlling the congress would oppose his efforts to expand wiretapping), decided to go to the Republican congress in 1996 and ask them for increased authority to do more eavesdropping in order to stop the terrorists – stop September 11. Senior Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, one of the GOP’s top picks for the Supreme Court and a GOP committee chair, objected.
The Republicans stopped President Clinton from getting all the tools he needed to stop the next September 11 – well, no, actually they opposed giving President Clinton all the tools he needed to stop the actual September 11. Could September 11 have been stopped if the GOP had given President Clinton the tools he requested to stop Osama and Mohammad Atta from killing 3,000 people in New York, Pennsylvania and Washington?
Maybe we need to ask the Republicans up for re-election why they wanted to appease the terrorists?
President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess.
“We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue,” Clinton said during a White House news conference.
But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures.
There’s even an audio clip of President Clinton practically begging the Republicans to give him the tools he needed to stop Osama and the terrorists. Trent Lott said no. Orrin Hatch said no. Do these men really deserve to run the Congress during a time of war?
Comments (110) | Permanent Link |
September 5th, 2006 at 1:22 amChoke on the above, whining protofascist scum.
September 5th, 2006 at 1:24 amyou got islamo…
Did you expect any better of the incompetent nutters?
George would have read warning briefing, but he was too busy at Crawford studying existentialist philosophy at the time.
He does seem to read the memos that say “blame everything on Bubba”.
September 5th, 2006 at 1:33 amGeorge Soros has a good point in claiming that the pre-emptive strike on Iraq and Israel and Jordanian’s so-called ‘fight on terror’ are just reinforcing the terrorist cause and creating more terrorist wannabees. However, he forgets one most important logic: It was never the aim to eradicate terrorism…. It was the aim to CREATE terrorism, and they’re doing a hechuva job. Bush needs terrorism to fight his wars and to make his o so scared base believe he’s the healer of the world (me good, they bad!), but in fact he’s only creating a WW so he can 1. steal US treasury through the defense budget and builders’ contracts and 2. finally make up for the loss of face his father suffered in the Gulf War by taking Saddam down and taking his oil for war looth.
September 5th, 2006 at 4:02 amThe War Is Lost
Having lost the Iraq war, the neoconservatives are determined to initiate war with Iran.
The neoconservatives plan to plunge America into war with Iran before they can be held accountable for the lost war in Iraq.
This neoconservative conspiracy against the United States and Iran must be stopped. Neocons must be removed from the government that they have betrayed and be held accountable for their crimes.
Before America can preach democracy to the world, we must first rescue American democracy from the Bush regime and reestablish government accountability to the people.
September 5th, 2006 at 5:03 amNew war totals Revised from new reseach by Me to include Afghanistan civillians too
2653 US killed in Iraq
333 US killed in Afghanistan
227 US Civillian Contractors Killed in Iraq
851 US Wounded in Afghanistan
19323 US wounded in Iraq
232 Coalition Troops killed in Iraq
136 Coalition Troops killed in Afghanistan
122 Coalition Civillian Contractors killed in Iraq
3485 Afghan Civillian Dead, 3103 were killed between 07/10/01 and 07/12/01 by American Bombs,
8587 Afghan Troops Killed
25761 Afghan Wounded
216,676 Iraqis killed
390,017 Iraqis wounded
Total Killing All = 232,451
Total Wounded All = 435,101
PS these do not include Coalition wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan as I cannot find the details
To the Neocon Republicans are you proud of these figures as you do not do bodycounts ,
September 5th, 2006 at 5:40 amWhen a state consciously makes a decision to go war, it means that a license to murder has been given. Its the most serious decision a state can make. Its a decision that must be made as a last resort when all else has failed.
Those who make that decision for any other reason are War Criminals.
To simply let off those who made the decisons that have resulted in the murderous chaos that the Iraq fiasco has become is in the same spirit, but not the same degree, as letting off the Nazis at Nuremberg.
Try to put your tribal loyalties to one side, be it My Country right or wrong, or The Party that I love, or even Our Beloved Leader, and then you can see this.
September 5th, 2006 at 5:52 amWelcome back to work, fellow moonbats. Ugh.
Fortunately, Nicholas Kristoff of the NY Times doesn’t mind going back to work and he kicks off the week with a great article about the Bush administration’s desecration of Teddy Roosevelt’s environmental legacy in “Staining the Land Forever.â€
September 5th, 2006 at 7:25 amThe trolls really are pathetic. Now they have to resort to hijacking IDs to try to make people look bad.
Trolling 101 (aka Republicans Never Lie, Can Do No Wrong, Never Admit To Anything. Clinton Did It)
- studiously ignore the original topic.
September 5th, 2006 at 7:43 am- ignore any video evidence presented in said topic.
- resort to namecalling and insulting people
- use several different ID’s to stage name calling and stupid arguing
- impersonate others using same ID to try to trash them
- attempt to derail topic and cause general mess using above techniques
- totally ignore and never ever accept anything which proves you wrong
- come back every single day to this site to do it
- suppress the nagging thoughts at the back of your mind which say “why am I so scared of this site and these people that I need to come here every day to resort to this crap to protect my fragile psyche?”
Does this mean that once we win back congress and we can supeona Dubya… We can try him as a war criminal?
September 5th, 2006 at 7:50 amSpeaking of Bush and war crimes hes trying his best to cover his ass
read these
Bush Goes Retro to Avoid Prosecution
Under the Nuremberg standard, Bush is definitely a war criminal. The U.S. Supreme Court also exposed Bush to war crimes charges under both the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996 and the Geneva Conventions when the Court ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld against the Bush administration’s military tribunals and inhumane treatment of detainees.
President Bush and his attorney general agree that under existing laws and treaties Bush is a war criminal together with many members of his government. To make his war crimes legal after the fact, Bush has instructed the Justice (sic) Department to draft changes to the War Crimes Act and to U.S. treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions.
Selective Prosecution of War Crimes
To justify its ill-advised invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration regularly gripes about Saddam Hussein’s war crimes, while cheering on Israel as it does the same thing in Lebanon and Gaza, just using different weapons.
September 5th, 2006 at 8:58 amPresident Bush and his attorney general agree that under existing laws and treaties Bush is a war criminal together with many members of his government. To make his war crimes legal after the fact, Bush has instructed the Justice (sic) Department to draft changes to the War Crimes Act and to U.S. treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions.
September 5th, 2006 at 8:59 amI thought there were “500,000 Iraqis” killed? Did they get resurrected?
September 5th, 2006 at 10:36 am#64 Does it really matter if it were 500,000 or 50,000? It’s still far more innocent people than were killed on US soil several years go. Arguably directly as a result of the invasion and occupation. Seems more people have died under “liberation” than they did previously.
September 5th, 2006 at 10:58 amTrolls don’t like numbers. They get confused when the figures conflict with their prepackaged talking points.
Comment by mparker — September 4, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
That’s only about twice the number of automotive deaths in China and less than half the number of people killed by firearms every year.
You would of course have realised that the majority of that number of deaths has been inflicted by terrorists in the name of insurgency campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. Probably only would have been a couple of thousand if everyone ignored 9/11 and every other terrorist attack in the past few year and just didn’t respond militarily.
Think there may have been a poll or two of the US public to guage just how people felt about that at the time. Clear majorities. You recall those numbers ?
You were the troll then. Trolls being those who pretend to hold a minority and unpopular opinion for the purpose of causing friction or arguement with the majority.
September 5th, 2006 at 11:03 am#64….Excellent! Laughed out loud at that one…
September 5th, 2006 at 11:05 am70,000 DEAD IN MID-EAST AUGERS GLAD TIDINGS IN WAR AGAINST TERRORISM
Professor Adolph von Euclid revealed today new math formulations which indicate that continuing massive deaths in the Middle East herald increasing success in the war on terror.
The newly revealed postulates show that at present for each thousand miscarnaged civilians nine point seven terrorists are killed. An ancillary formulation to the miscarnaged postulates shows that in near simultanity seventeen new terrorists are created per thousand miscarnagees resulting in a dead/arisen terrorist ratio of negative fifty seven per cent, plus or minus an Arab or two either way.
Using Third Reichean formulae, adjusted for lack of Jews in the study, genocidal statistics show that the percentage of new terrorists per thousand expunged civilians will eventually peak at thirty one point eight while the the number of terrorists killed per thousand collateral accidentists non linearly increases due to the massive influx of new terrorists and the time honored normal war time change in methods of recording dead, dead, dead people.
The so postulated formulaic conclusion is that at two hundred twelve thousand innocents slaughtered the terrorist dead to terrorists arisen ratio should geometrically swoop into the positive range heralding a pleasant advance in the war on terror:
All going well, that is.
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September 5th, 2006 at 1:38 pmMore than 4 million. The number of smoking-related deaths gloabally — IN ONE YEAR!!!
September 5th, 2006 at 2:43 pmtest
September 5th, 2006 at 8:11 pm#64….Excellent! Laughed out loud at that one…
Comment by Exley — September 5, 2006 @ 11:05 am
The number of people killed during 9/11 was also revised. I thought that was hilarious too “Excellent! Laughed out loud at that one…” as you say. Not so funny now is it?? Jerk.
September 5th, 2006 at 8:41 pm