Under Fire, ABC Yanks Official Blog of 9/11 Docudrama
Under Fire, ABC Yanks Official Blog of 9/11 Docudrama
On September 10 and 11, ABC is planning to air a “docudrama” called “Path to 9/11,” billed as “an objective telling of the events of 9/11.” In fact, the film was written by an unabashed conservative who twists the facts to blame President Clinton.
The show’s official blog attracted many comments from the public criticizing the film for its inaccuracies. In response, writer Cyrus Nowrasteh and director David Cunningham posted a number of strikingly defensive blog posts. Some excerpts:
Clarification
1) This is not a documentary…
2) This is not a right wing agenda movie…By the way, we are also being accused of being a left wing movie that bashes Bush.
-D. Cunningham
Wed, Aug 30, 2006 22:01Further clarafication
This movie is well-supported and well-documented. But everyone should be aware, and we say so upfront in a long legend — “The following dramatization…has composite and representative characters and incidents, and time compressions have been used for dramatic purposes.”
…Whoever wants to write and talk about this movie is free to do so, and we’ve been very open in talking to them. We can’t control who writes what…
–Cyrus Nowrasteh
Fri, Sep 1, 2006 16:59Even Further Clarification
…The redundant statement about Clinton and the emphasis to protect his legacy instead of trying to learn from the failures of BOTH administrations smells of “agenda”.
…Watch the movie! Then let’s talk. If you haven’t seen the movie with your very own eyes - don’t castigate the movie out of ignorance.
-David Cunningham
Sat, Sep 2, 2006 16:48
Apparently, ABC is no longer interested in hosting a discussion about Path to 9/11. On Sunday, without announcement or explanation, ABC took the blog down. (The URL now redirects to the show’s homepage.) We’ve saved a copy of the full contents HERE.
UPDATE: Without explaination, ABC brought the blog back online sometime Tuesday.
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HA! Glad to see that people aren't taking this smear job lying down. Keep up the pressure, gang!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:57 amAmerica's Least Wanted
It's encouraging to see that people are seeing past the propagandist' "docudrama." ABC can't take the heat, so they close down the blog - so typical isn't it? They can all dish it out, but they sure as hell can't take it.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:00 amContemporary Republican Logic 101.
When Bill Clinton was in office for one month the World Trade Center was attacked by terrorists. Shame on Bill Clinton for allowing a terrorist attack on HIS watch.
Nine months into the George W. Bush presidency there was the 9/11 attacks. Shame on Bill Clinton for allowing the attacks to be planned on HIS watch.
See how they do it!
-GSD
Boycott ABC.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:01 amI bet ABC is now wishing that they could yank this movie too. Anyone who wants to preserve this for posterity had better do it tonite, I doubt it will ever be seen anywhere else ever again. And rightly so.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:05 amAt least the dumb crowd will have something to watch.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:05 amBravo ABC! It's time that our programming reflects some modicum of truth.
The tragedy of 9/11 is something to be handled delicately, with respect, and documentation which has been thoroughly vetted for Truth....not political or sensational in any way. I commend Spike Lee for bringing the truth about perhaps THE worst tragedy of this government to care for it's citizens - KATRINA - which is still an "ongoing tragedy" of outrageous proportions. This is the kind of docudrama people need to see - what really transpired and continues to transpire....not something "puffed up" to paint a political picture one way or another. We want the facts....not more propaganda!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:07 amThe GOP is hoping for a tragic event prior to the mid-term elections. Its a shame, but it is the truth.
My bet is that if one does not occur, they will manufacture one.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:11 amIf I rermenber correctly wasn't ABC the one bought up by the CIA?
[CIA Director] Casey was one of the founders of Cap Cities. Cap Cities bought ABC.
Well well, that is one 'BUSH' movie that I will not be watching, it is of course crap because this docucrap only reinforces the 9/11 report that the Bush cabal had 47 pages removed.
ERGO this docudrama reinforces a half truth..and in no way can be seen as 'accurate' because the people do not have an accurate 9/11 report.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:12 amThe GOP is hoping for a tragic event prior to the mid-term elections. Its a shame, but it is the truth.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:13 am==
The tragic event occupies the White House
hahahahahaaaaaaa. Remove the Blog they aren't buying it!!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:14 amThe damn sheeple are walking on two legs!!
… We can’t control who writes what…
But we would if we could.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:15 amSpeaking of walking on two legs doesn't Orwells bookAnimal Farm make alot more sense now when you think of the pigs as greedy capitalist GOP hypocriites?
==
We can’t control who writes what…
But we would if we could.
Comment by George
September 4th, 2006 at 10:17 am==
Only in a 'free speech' zone George..
ABC= Almight Bush Cronies
September 4th, 2006 at 10:19 amRebel With A Cause sez:
It's already in the works, Rebel. Expect another massive "terrorist incident", on the scale of 9/11, on either American, Canadian, or British soil, sometime between now and November.
Terrorist "threats" that are "successfully averted" by the government are no longer keeping us docile...the administration knows they have to up the ante to keep us under control, and they have absolutely no compunction about doing so.
When it does happen, do not succumb to the hysteria. Start asking questions immediately...you'll find that this latest "terorist incident" will be as ersatz as 9/11 and every "terrorist threat"that has followed.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:20 amstrong>New fall films bring Iraq war to home to U.S
By Bob Tourtellotte
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - It took years for the Vietnam war to "come home" to U.S. moviegoers, but a series of fall films will soon test the appetite for cinematic tales about U.S. politics and the human toll of the war in Iraq.
Whether the movies, which include documentary "The Ground Truth" and feature film "Home of the Brave" from Oscar-winner Irwin Winkler, will challenge White House policies or impact audiences is open for debate.
But audiences will find it hard, if not impossible, to watch the movies without considering current events and the Iraq war, and that is a marked change from previous eras.
"It used to be that you digested events before you had to comment on them, and I don't think that's true anymore," said Richard Schickel, a veteran critic for Time magazine. "Now, people have instant opinions, and they get them out there."
September 4th, 2006 at 10:24 amAmericablog will be campaigning against ABC all this week. Come along!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:27 amTRIPMASTER
I am with you all the way. A manufactured terrist event will occur. It may, or may not, cause death and injury, but it will be a spectacle.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:33 am"a dogged crew of investigators and operatives who knew in 1993, when the World Trade Center was bombed by Islamic terrorists, that they would be back to finish the job"
DR. RICE: Steve, I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile.
Nice job, Judd. ABC needs to air another 'docudrama' based on the facts.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:36 amlet's keep it up, maybe they will resist showing the garbage at all
September 4th, 2006 at 10:37 amoh wait, it's abc, garbage in, garbage out
For a different take on how the American national security establishment across both the Clinton and Bush administrations suffered a "failure of imagination" prior to 9/11, see:
"Cognitive Dissonance, Terrorism and 9/11."
September 4th, 2006 at 10:47 amJudd - You are TOOOO precious! Bright boy that you are, I'm certain you have a palatable explanation why the "fact-based" documentaries of Michael Moore are cinemagraphically legitimate.
You and yours are "offended" by a made- for-TV movie written by (gasp!!!!!) an unabashed right-winger. And the NERVE of the writer and director to post opinions refuting "progressive keyboard berets"!?! Your dutiful comrades would be so much happier if only prog views were littering the landscape. You can't have it both ways - even as leftist elites throw their predictable tantrums.
A simple suggestion conservative citizens (of no particular prominence) employed - Watch it if you want to refute it OR don't watch it if your panties a sure to become twisted. (I hear I missed some really great film footage in foregoing "Fahrenheit 9/11", "Bowling for Columbine", and "An Inconvenient Truth" - I think I was busy changing the lining of Mini Aphrodites canaries' cage.....)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:48 amI don't know how to get ABC to pull the plug. If it runs however I propose a three part response:
1. Everybody watches football, like it or not. Maybe we organize football watching orgies (sex optional)
2. Everybody goes on-line and comtributes to one or more democratic candidates for the house or senate.
3. Within 2 hours of the conclusion of the docu-drama, ebveryone sends an email to ABC saying "Bull-shit!"
#2 is the most important.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:51 amNaw, I think, Bush would have to be a complete nitwit to allow another attack. That would weaken his only strong point of National Security, another attack here would only go to knock the straw man on National Security down and make him seem even weaker on securiy
I think it, another attack, would backfire, and this is why we are seeing so many crummy films.
So, Bush can either come clean and start acting like the president of ALL the people and make things right, or he can continue on his luciferian crusade and destroy the Bush families legacy for once and for all, mostly because he listened to Rove and the AEI panel of inane advisers, Parades and flowers, people cheering bush in a ticker tape parade, the troops smiling, the people in love with george..to bad it George doesn't know a pipe dream from reality.
Rove, Bushes brain, Ironically, may be the downfall of the Bush.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:51 amBoycott ABC. Boycott their advertisers. Write their advertisers to complain. ABC is part of the cabal of Corporate Fascists engaged in Psy Ops.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:52 amWhen Bill Clinton was in office for one month the World Trade Center was attacked by terrorists. Shame on Bill Clinton for allowing a terrorist attack on HIS watch.
Nine months into the George W. Bush presidency there was the 9/11 attacks. Shame on Bill Clinton for allowing the attacks to be planned on HIS watch.
==
Then you must also whine and complain that George only had nine months in office, and a one month vacation, and that it's hard work, and that you didn't see that PDB about the Planes, or didn't know the lights were flashing red, and you also have to ignore the Bojinka plot..and say "It was a lack of imagination"
Funny thing this GOP imagination, they imagine all kinds of smear campaigns, propaganda, and outright lies but can't Imagine a plane into a building even when they damn well knew of Bojinka??
September 4th, 2006 at 10:58 amMighty Aphrodite wrote:
If a liberal told you gravity worked you'd fall on your face trying to prove them wrong. Everybody on the planet needs to see "An Inconvenient Truth". That you're terrified of it speaks volumes.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:06 amWhy don't we be constructive, and suggest ABC air a 'docudrama'about the Millennium Bombing--you know, the one that Richard Clarke and his sidekick Bill Clinton foiled? It has the advantage of a happy ending, after all.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:08 amAhh... the Tale of Mighty Aphrodite
September 4th, 2006 at 11:11 amWho on her way to fight the big bad terrorists wound up at Think Progress fighting liberals! Too funny!
Mr Bush you have it within your powers to do the right thing by acting like the President and lead us thru actions and not thru distorted Rovian logic and nonstop idiotic smear campaigns. The days of empire building and quixotic crusades to Jerusalem are over Mr. Bush.
The 'endtime' was the creation of the State of Israel, Nationalism yields to Internationalism and Universalism is now brought into view will you cower from the future and continue the vicious historic cycle of the past, or will you Mr Bush embrace the future of mankind and work towards a Universal good?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:12 amABC has turned very creepy since Ted Koppel left > they are worse than CNN now in spewing Bush Regime propaganda > nobody should watch that stupid docudrama blaming Clinton for 9/11, but why is Bill himself silent about it?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:13 amDidn't CBS yank the Reagan Biopic when enough Conservatives complained? Hint, hint... :)
September 4th, 2006 at 11:13 amThe Chicago Tribune is reporting that the #2 man has been with AlQaeda for only three years (mighty quick rise to #2) since leaving Saddam's military.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:14 amAlso, Iraqi officials report that he had been arrested several weeks ago.
And this is in the news today because...?
I think I was busy changing the lining of Mini Aphrodites canaries’ cage…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
You really ought to let the little darling do that itself...it might grow up better than you...
September 4th, 2006 at 11:14 am(I hear I missed some really great film footage in foregoing “Fahrenheit 9/11″, “Bowling for Columbineâ€, and “An Inconvenient Truth†- I think I was busy changing the lining of Mini Aphrodites canaries’ cage…..)
MA fails to recognize the fact that Nationalism was the downfall of Hitler and his International crusade.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:14 amOops, sorry OT
September 4th, 2006 at 11:14 am#34 should have been on another thread.
Just as MA's Nationalism will be the downfall of Bush.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:15 am==
(I hear I missed some really great film footage in foregoing “Fahrenheit 9/11″, “Bowling for Columbineâ€, and “An Inconvenient Truth†- I think I was busy changing the lining of Mini Aphrodites canaries’ cage…..)
==
A perverted canarie, so what do you line this cage with playgirl magazines?
Maybe they can do a cocumentary about how the first WTC bombers were aprehended and jailed?
Or about the Oklahoma City bombers were aprehended, jailed, and executed?
Or how the Unabomer was captured and jailed for life.
Or how the Millenium Plot was foiled.
Or how millions of Bosnians can now vote and are free to persue their "dreams".
Naw, let's not do that.
-GSD
September 4th, 2006 at 11:15 amExpect another massive “terrorist incidentâ€, on the scale of 9/11, on either American, Canadian, or British soil, sometime between now and November.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 4, 2006 @ 10:20 am
Actually, I think another event would work against them - it would mean that they aren't protecting us. That they aren't securing us, or being vigilant enough. Another event will doom them.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:16 amI saw Fahrenheit 9/11, mighty mouse. Care to point out something in it that wasn't factual?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:22 amI wrote to both ABC national and my local station on Friday. Tommorrow I'll do it again. If you write to your local ABC station let them now you'll be contacting local advertisers to suggest better places for them to advertise, that really seems to get their panties in a bunch.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:24 am#27 - "Everybody on the planet needs to see “An Inconvenient Truthâ€. That you’re terrified of it speaks volumes. " Comment by Mark Wise
******Dear Mark - Thank you for your input. Apparently you're not bright enough to discern the difference between "terrified" and "choice". I know this may surprise you, but I am not interested in giving $$$$ to Michael Moore, Oliver Stone, Dick Wolf, Martin Sheen, Babs Streisand, etc. So no, I don't NEED to see "Roaring" Al Gore's latest lecture. Too bad the late, great dinosaurs didn't have an enviro-wack to stave off the Ice Age....
Why are Progs so AFRAID of a perspective different from ther own - that doesn't sound TOOOOO "open-minded" to me?
Happy Comrades Day.....
September 4th, 2006 at 11:24 amYou really ought to let the little darling do that itself…it might grow up better than you…
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 11:14 am
Thanks for, in a single-sentance, explaining what is wrong with the youngest generation today. They've been mommied to laziness by the neo-conservatives who feel guilty for working too much to pay for their Mercedes lease, McMansion, and botox injections, and so they don't parent or discipline their kids.
I have one in one of my classes who is a good kid, but obviously has been taught nothing about the consequences of his actions. He acts like a five year old and is on the verge of learning the hard way, because of his parent's refusal to teach him gradually through tough love, what happens when you fail your classes and then can't go to college. I don't blame him, but I can't pass someone who won't do his work.
His parents are typical conservatives.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:25 amAnother 9/11 type event before November would have to be staged by the Bush Regime > NO real terrorists involved > more Americans will be less inclined to believe Dubya, but he will probably just declare martial law and not care what we all think or believe?!
September 4th, 2006 at 11:25 amAny challenge to the official hogwash of what happened on 9/11 has been totally blacked out by the corporate media. The imperative questions that have been raised by scholars, scientists and other highly respsectable researchers has been taboo all this time. This is a step forward, but does not address the mountain of evidence that refutes the fairy tale the world has been told about 9/11. Everyone raising the questions has been labeled a conspiracy theorist, when the only utterly ridiculous conspiracy theory is the one about 19 kids pulling off the most efficient attack on the US in history.
Please read this for background.....then make up your own mind:
CLICK HERE
http://tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_-_us_complicity__implausi.html
September 4th, 2006 at 11:28 amMighty would be of better service as a target of a suicide bomber. Otherwise I think she's just a shill. Is that Harvey Kiketel in that promo pic?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:29 amI think I was busy changing the lining of Mini Aphrodites canaries’ cage…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
it keeps it's children in canary cages???!!!
hey! the print in this box is HUGE! yay!
September 4th, 2006 at 11:30 ami've been away for a while... THANKS JUDD!
Interesting and a success for part of the Blogosphere. I don't know how many Bloggers actually took the challenge, but I wrote one on the above story that was even getting good international traffic. Thanks to Think Progress and RAW Story alerting us this was going to happen, I'm sure there were many of us who took them to task - and made it harder than ever to justify such obvious propaganda and subterfuge!
I'd say this is a victory for the Good Guys! One down and how many more to go?
JAC
September 4th, 2006 at 11:36 amYou break like a little girl, mighty. Go home now.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:37 amWhy can't the people in this country tell the truth anymore. Do we send our kids to college to learn to lie. Somebody needs their ass smacked!!
September 4th, 2006 at 11:39 amUh-oh, Santo is back...
Take a vacation Santo.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:41 amSael > Bush promotes lying, so kids are learning that lying is acceptable and cool > liars make my skin crawl, but GOP seems to thrive on it?!
September 4th, 2006 at 11:42 amlets see who was in the white house when the planes hit the world trade center in nyc, the pentagon and that field in pa.? oh that's right it was bush and his republican posse....so they were supposed to be responsible for the safety and security of the nation at that very moment and had been on the job for about nine months.....gee i guess these were failures that happened on their watch huh?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:43 amI will boycott ABC for awhile too.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:43 amAhh, the sanctity of the Documentary as an established accurate account has been maintained. Calling this a documentary would be like calling Rush Limbaugh America's Anchor. Interesting that an entertainment division would even attempt to call something accurate without expecting any legitimate scrutiny. Judd get out an enjoy the day it's beautiful.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:44 amCall Rush Limbaugh's advertisers and demand they get Bush and Cheney to resign and that you will not buy from them until Bush and Cheney resign leaving Dennis Hastert to serve as pResident for the next two years.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:44 amDoes ABC have any plans to AIR Michael Moore's Farenheit 911 before the elections?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:46 amI think not.
If they did - I could stomach this - since they aren't it smacks of politics.
This should not air to blame President Clinton when the moron who created it is an abomination to this country.President Bush had this in mind before he became President and do not be suprised if the is another tradjady they did the first and will have no compunction in creating a second before the election to try and scare the hell out of this country.I hope this country is not dunb enough . It is time to get these immorral low life poor people hating pigs out of office and put them in jail. Just watch first war with Iran and then marshall law NO ELECTIONS DO N OT LET THIS HAPPEN.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:46 amAnyone have a link where we can find the sponsors? That's who we need to contact, not just the ABC brass.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:48 amSpeaking of agenda, any mentions at all about PNAC? Now there's an agenda..
September 4th, 2006 at 11:53 amSeems to me that former President Clinton should be mad that ABC is claiming he is responsible for 9/11, when Bush Boy is solely responsible, so why does Bill remain silent on this docudrama? Is it because Clinton has sold-out to the Bush Regime and even has agreed to be slimed too?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:54 amThanks for, in a single-sentance, explaining what is wrong with the youngest generation today.
Comment by unbelievable
I can just see the kid in your story, speaking in a rehab family session -- Mom & Dad, why didn't you just make me act right?
it keeps it’s children in canary cages???!!!
Comment by katy
Now that's funny!!
September 4th, 2006 at 11:55 amI for one will not be watching this GOP crap...I'm so tired of them using 9/11 for their political purposes and then blaming Clinton for it...
Shame on you ABC...Shame on you...
September 4th, 2006 at 11:56 amAnyone have a link where we can find the sponsors? That’s who we need to contact, not just the ABC brass.
Comment by red state liberal
I would bet John Aravosis at AmericaBlog has a list. That would be the way to go -- contact the sponsors.
Maybe if we keep up the pressure, ABC will drop this thing.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:58 am[...] Further clarafication http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/04/path-blog-yanked/#comments [...]
September 4th, 2006 at 11:59 amMA's children are canary birds > he is a drag queen guy who calls his pets his children > lol. Have you ever seen the film the "Bird Cage" about 2 gay guys living in Florida? MA is a very confused "Log Cabin" Republican!
September 4th, 2006 at 12:00 pmI can just see the kid in your story, speaking in a rehab family session — Mom & Dad, why didn’t you just make me act right?
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 11:55 am
His reality is that he will probably have to go to community college and work his way through the system. Or get a job, and be fired. Sad for him. I feel for him. But he doesn't take me seriously when I tell him that college is not the same as high school and that they don't call your parents in for a meeting - they kick you out. And keep your money.
MA's kids will probably be the next ones on trial for some heinous rampage that starts with offing their parents... Well, if canaries can do that (cause I'm sure MA's 'children' are actually pets).
September 4th, 2006 at 12:01 pmThis administration's every success can only be credited to Pres Bush's vision, leadership and clear command.
This administration's s every disastrous misstep can only be pinned on... just about anyone else -preferably Bill Clinton.
That is, in a nutshell, the Republican Party's new accountability and personal responsibility.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:05 pmIf Clinton (or Gore or Kerry) had failed to act on a Presidential Daily Briefing, dated August 6, 2001, that said that bin Laden was determined to strike in the U.S., the mainstream media would have hung it around his neck, as well they should have.
With Little Bush, it has basically been ignored and forgotten.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:05 pmWatch it if you want to refute it OR don’t watch it if your panties a sure to become twisted.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 4, 2006 @ 10:48 am
Obvious reply: Post comments in a liberal blog if you want to refute their points, OR don't if you will get your panties in a twist.
When are we going to see a thoughtful reply/refutation from MA, instead of badly wirtten condescension and half-witted attempts at sarcasm?
If she at least wrote in proper English...
September 4th, 2006 at 12:06 pmJudd, did you preserve the comments on each of those posts, as well? They were hilarious and spot-on!
Oh, and Mightly Aph should use the WSJ for her birdcage liner.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:08 pmIf anyone's interested you can still go to abc.com and leave a "complaint" under "primetime other".
September 4th, 2006 at 12:09 pmWhy can't they yank the movie. CBS yanked the movie about Ron Reagan.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:10 pmIt was on Bush's watch...almost a year in...they didn't take Osama seriously...
Yes Clinton didn't get Bin Laden ...but then after 5 years neither has Bush.
The same way I lost all respect for Oliver Stone, I just lost all respect for Harvey Keittel. Hope the paycheck was worth defending treason against his country. Actors should really take the time to read the official, Bush-backer orchestrated 9-11 Commission Report, then read Dr Griffin's "Omissions & Distortions" before signing up for this kind of propaganda crap.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:12 pmDrop your mask stupid girl!
Comment by ABOUT TIME — September 4, 2006 @ 12:03 pm
Funny how you always out yourself by protesting too much... Yeah, that makes me stupid. LOL
September 4th, 2006 at 12:16 pmBoring holiday today in Georgia > not much to do since rain is expected at any time > can Bush at least for one day shut his vile stupid yapper?
September 4th, 2006 at 12:17 pmI quit watching ABC, and will not watch it again until they throw that right wing crazy John Stossel off the air. It doesn't surprise me they are airing this piece of right wing propaganda, they are trying to mimic Fox. Hello ABC, you'll never outfox FOX.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:21 pmhaha! If only Dems had the kind of civility, and true caring nature, of shining (and published) Republican examples like:
Ann "Liberals are Treasonous" Coulter
Michelle "Liberals are Unhinged" Malkin
Michael "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder" Savage
Sean "Liberals Are Evil" Hannity
Ben "Liberalism is Corrupting Our Bright Future" Shapiro
Bernie "Liberals are Screwing Up America" Goldberg
How dare uncouth Dems take insulting potshots at such caring conservative examples such as you, in the comments section of a blog, Mighty.
The could at least have the decency to get a book deal, a TV show, and do rounds on the pundit circuit before insulting you. Won't those liberals ever learn?
September 4th, 2006 at 12:21 pmThe next time, and there will be many next times, a desperately deluded Bush supporting Republican history revisionist tries to inaccurately blame Clinton for 9/11, please post the following:
GOP CONGRESS BLOCKED CLINTON PUSH FOR ANTI-TERROR LEGISLATION
Note the date of the CNN article……….
by John in DC - 9/04/2006 11:10:00 AM
CNN, July 30, 1996 http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, "These are very controversial provisions that the [Clinton] White House wants. Some they're not going to get." ....[Hatch] also said he had some problems with the president's proposals to expand wiretapping.
So Bill Clinton, rather than just breaking the law, decided to go to the Republican congress in 1996 and ask them for increased authority to do more eavesdropping in order to stop the terrorists - stop September 11. Senior Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, one of the GOP's top picks for the Supreme Court and a GOP committee chair, objected.
The Republicans stopped President Clinton from getting all the tools he needed to stop the next September 11 - well, no, actually they opposed giving President Clinton all the tools he needed to stop the actual September 11. Could September 11 have been stopped if the GOP had given President Clinton the tools he requested to stop Osama and Mohammad Atta from killing 3,000 people in New York, Pennsylvania and Washington?
Maybe we need to ask the Republicans up for re-election why they wanted to appease the terrorists?
President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess.
"We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue," Clinton said during a White House news conference.
But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures.
There's even an audio clip of President Clinton practically begging the Republicans to give him the tools he needed to stop Osama and the terrorists. Trent Lott said no. Orrin Hatch said no. Do these men really deserve to run the Congress during a time of war?
http://americablog.blogspot.com/...
September 4th, 2006 at 12:25 pmSanto your therapist called and said you need to increase the dosage of Valium and Thorizine > lol.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:26 pmTerrorist “threats†that are “successfully averted†by the government are no longer keeping us docile…the administration knows they have to up the ante to keep us under control, and they have absolutely no compunction about doing so.
At this point since 60 percent of the population isn't "playing nice", ie, the way they are supposed to play, ie, cowering in fear,... Bush/Rove have no choice but to engineer an attack.
Even if, when it happens, so many of us will know immediately that they are the cause of it, they cannot afford to lose the votes they will lose if it doesn't happen. Caught in the corner in a lose-lose situation and fighting mean and nasty so as not to go down to the doom they deserve.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:30 pmThe demolition of the twin towers and the staged attack on the Pentagon were both planned out by the P.N.A.C Project for a New
September 4th, 2006 at 12:32 pmAmerican Century in 1997 in their organizational meeting attended bt Cheney, Feith, Pearle. and the rest of the Mossad agents who now work in the White House. Folks this is a coup attempt and you better figure it out. There is only weeks left till the October Suprise. They're in this so deep that if they don't succeed, they are going to prison for the rest of their lives . Pay attention. Whats left of our nation depends on it.
the best way to show these idiots what you think is to BOYCOTT ABC--
September 4th, 2006 at 12:34 pmall of its shows, "news", advertisers, etc. The almighty dollar seems to be the only thing that motivates these lying fatcats.
Dancingdog > NOT a coup attempt, but a successful coup d-etat! Bush may never leave the presidency, since he stole it in 2000 election > the September/October surprise is a few weeks away most likely!
September 4th, 2006 at 12:37 pmDo you wanna read some of your past comments on 911?
Sure. Saves me the time of re-typing them.
Did you change your mind, your heart or it was a necessity?
Since reality didn't change, neither did I. You fail to recognize that reality is not something you 'believe' in, or twist to fit your end results. It is what it is and the reality of it is what i said and continue to stand by.
You know i have them, so drop it before you hurt your credibility even more.
Comment by ABOUT TIME — September 4, 2006 @ 12:22 pm
My credibility is just fine. It's why I'm considered an expert on the subject.
It's your own credibility you should be worried about.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:37 pm#99
How about people call Rush Limbaugh's advertisers and demand they get Bush and Cheney to resign and until they do the person will not buy their products?
September 4th, 2006 at 12:40 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glaYJzeGK7I
September 4th, 2006 at 12:43 pmHow about people call Rush Limbaugh’s advertisers and demand they get Bush and Cheney to resign and until they do the person will not buy their products?
Comment by dmocrats.org — September 4, 2006 @ 12:40 pm
If enough people got behind that, it's the most powerful weapon we have against the hostile Corporate American take-over of our political system and government. By hitting them where it hurts - the bottom line - quarterly financial reports to their share holders.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:44 pmAsk yourself why nobody is moving a finger to do some justice around here.And what’s your role in all this?
==
You need to ask Frozen Scandal Man that question..and I sure hope Mr FSM doesn't show up in the media anytime soon..
September 4th, 2006 at 12:45 pmI wonder if this 'Documentary' will discuss building #7?
If there ever is an 'after the neocon/corporatist/fascism' time, I hope all these mf's running the great wurlizter media pipe organ can be tracked down.... ABC and FOX execs will top the list...
September 4th, 2006 at 12:45 pmThere is no San to you stupid Jay Randal!
Comment by Dr Joyce Brother
WOW, and to think people pay for that kind of treatment! =)
September 4th, 2006 at 12:47 pmDear FraudDEM - WHENEVER anyone mentions the caring nature of progs, I can usually count on a moonbat like you to prove them wrong. Of course, you’re probably just a freakish exception…. Thanks!
I find it hilarious when someone makes their screename after a mythical deity whom thought the Moon, Selene [ moon goddess, is known for her countless love affairs] is a total moonbat slut just like Aphrodite..
I mean really MA you are such a blatant hypocrite, and a tin foil moonbat yourself. Worse you don't even realize what a foolish statement you make by calling others moonbats
I laugh in your face.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:52 pmAphrodite=Selene=Slutty Moonbat
September 4th, 2006 at 12:55 pmRebel With A Cause sez:
The GOP is hoping for a tragic event prior to the mid-term elections. Its a shame, but it is the truth.
My bet is that if one does not occur, they will manufacture one.
It’s already in the works, Rebel. Expect another massive “terrorist incidentâ€, on the scale of 9/11, on either American, Canadian, or British soil, sometime between now and November.
9/11 made the passage of the Patriot act possible.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:59 pmThe work of hijacking the constituion began years prior to that, the patriot act was not the beginning but signals how close we are to the end.
HR4079 was put into place in the early 90's (and FEMA has been successfully rolled into homeland security the law is in place that will allow for a police state to be initiated and all it will take is a National Emergency Declaration for Bush. What does that mean? It means lif as we know it will no longer exist...for our own good of course.
I do not know how far the neo-cons will take this but if they have worked this hard for this long to set the stage...I think they are going to go on with the show. The neo-cons tried the waters so to speak with Katrina and the insted of a national outrage it produced only a whimper. The neo-cons have quietly invested around 320 million dollars in their own private army..Blackwater. They have been hard at work practicing on Iraqi's and others. The neo-cons know that they cannot count on teh volunteer military to do what they feel must be done. Blackwater will. Remind you a little of the SS?
So, if your thinking that it would not be a surprise if "something" major were to happen between now and nov...and you think it's just to win a an election...your thinking too small. neo-cons don't think small. Nov really doesn't even matter this could be implemented up until Bush's last day in office.
if you want to find a relly good summary of HR4079 and all the unbelievable things this law will allow the president to do to you and your family check out William Coopers Behold A Pale Horse...he called all this to the detail years ago and was killed by the police. I am surprised this book is still even available to the public.
Inform yourself America.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, “These are very controversial provisions that the [Clinton] White House wants. Some they’re not going to get.†….[Hatch] also said he had some problems with the president’s proposals to expand wiretapping.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:01 pm==
But, But, Look! See! IOKIYAR!
On 9/11/2001, planes struck the Twin Towers. Something struck the Pentagon, and another plane crashed in Pennsylvania. The Twin Towers collapsed as did WTC tower 7 which was not struck. Thousands died. NORAD failed to defend American airspace. No one has been held accountable. Except for the fact of thousands dead, that is all I think I know for certain, even after the 9/11 Commission report. Apparently, the answer to what actually happened that day and what lead up to it is, like every other disaster since George Bush became President, Bill Clinton's fault.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:06 pmOn 9/11/2001, planes struck the Twin Towers. Something struck the Pentagon, and another plane crashed in Pennsylvania. The Twin Towers collapsed as did WTC tower 7 which was not struck. Thousands died. NORAD failed to defend American airspace. No one has been held accountable. Except for the fact of thousands dead, that is all I think I know for certain, even after the 9/11 Commission report. Apparently, the answer to what actually happened that day and what lead up to it is, like every other disaster since George Bush became President, Bill Clinton's fault.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:06 pmI do not know how far the neo-cons will take this but if they have worked this hard for this long to set the stage…I think they are going to go on with the show.
Naw, the troops are worn and tired and they are not so happy with bush, nor are many of the generals. FEMA is also severely disabled. They will if anything try to introduce a sedition law.
Marshall law would be hard to enforce due to the posse comitatus act [In 1878, Congress passed the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids military involvement in domestic law enforcement without congressional approval]
Bush is pretty much hosed right now..
September 4th, 2006 at 1:09 pm"Thank goodness our friends and allies did not desert us during our civil war."-comment by Mighty Aphrodite-August 3, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
September 4th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Unbelieveble explain to us how the twin towers and building 7 collapse!
Comment by uncontrolled demolition — September 4, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
I already did. You said you had the text from those posts. If so, you don't need me to repeat it.
But feel free to join my class on Friday, I'll be teaching it to them.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:10 pmGee, what a surprise. It's like the Flight 93 comment board and Deb Howell all over again. When confronted, cut and run.
Anyway, Paul Krugman talks about the success of the VA and how it's been neutered by the GOP, who see it as an obstacle to their own agenda. Medicare Advantage, meanwhile, is a boondoggle for similar reasons: The GOP agenda.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#123 Trinary; it's martial not Marshall.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:13 pmMarshall law would be hard to enforce due to the posse comitatus act [In 1878, Congress passed the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids military involvement in domestic law enforcement without congressional approval]
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet — September 4, 2006 @ 1:09 pm
It didn't stop the military from involvment in Waco. And that led Timopthy McVeigh to retalitae with the Murrah Building bombing in return.
Further proof that violence begets further violence and not peace.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:14 pmPosse Comitatus Act does not apply to Blackwater paid mercenaries. And if you think the relevant pieces of FEMA are disabled, go talk to the folks who are right now living in FEMA camps. Oh, I forgot, they are not permitted to talk to the public.......
September 4th, 2006 at 1:17 pmthis is not a documentary?? are they talking to a nation where 50 percent of the population STILL think there are WMDs?? get serious.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:18 pmI want to savor that thought for a few minutes -- at least.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:20 pmDidn't CBS cancel a scheduled "documentary" film on Reagan a couple years back?
September 4th, 2006 at 1:22 pmWe might try pressuring ABC to do the same.
Peter Jennings is gone.
Ted Koppel is gone.
Stossel is still there. That is part of the explanation for the decline of ABC.
GOP propaganda ...Blame Clinton . Karl Rove thinks americans are stupid.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pmWhen fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. -Sinclair Lewis
==
I find it hard to believe the clever Mighty Aphrodite is ignorant of history and the rise of fascism in Germany.
==
It didn’t stop the military from involvment in Waco. And that led Timopthy McVeigh to retalitae with the Murrah Building bombing in return.
Further proof that violence begets further violence and not peace.
Comment by unbelievable
Agreed.
Ironically that is exactly why Mcveigh [A member of a Elohym group] a Repubican, blew up the Murrah Building..
September 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pmIsn't it time to flood the ABC sponsors before the movie is aired. Aggenda driven pieces have been pulled before if there is a large enough outcry. Who are the advertisers for this movie? Networks are having a hard time now since DVR and TIVO has made bypassing commercials so easy. Why not let the advertisers know that we will not open our wallets for products that sponsor this kind of garbage. If any subject ever needed to be treated as pure NON FICTION, this is the one. The networks know full well how easily the public is confused, since they are so uniformed to begin with. This is nothing but a gift to the Administration to further mislead.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:24 pmhttp://www.fas.org/irp/threat/mcveigh/part07.htm
September 4th, 2006 at 1:26 pmVII. BEYOND ELOHIM CITY.
A. Suspect I. Posse Comitatus. and Iraq.
The defense believes that there is credible evidence that a conspiracy to
bomb federal property, very possibly the Murrah Building, is centered in
Elohim City and the persons described which are associated with Elohim City,
but that the technical expertise and possibly financial support came from a
foreign country, most likely Iraq, but possibly Iran or another state in the
Middle East. Dennis Mahon has admitted publicly to received money from Iraq,
approximately once a month. D.E. 2191 at 11. According to Mahon, the money
started arriving in 1991 after he began holding rallies protesting the
Persian Gulf War. Id.
unbelievable,
I see Santo is still imprinted on you. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 1:26 pmABC is owned by Disney and Disney knows silly. Its spokescreature is a mouse that has its own dog.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI want to savor that thought for a few minutes — at least.
Comment by Marie
heh! =0]
September 4th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#136: "Karl Rove thinks americans are stupid." - - Americans are certainly sheep-like and easily manipulated. Is that stupid? You decide.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:30 pmNow if we can just get them to yank the FICTIONAL docudrama, we'll have accomplished something. Does anyone know who is buying ad space for this piece of fiction/
September 4th, 2006 at 1:30 pmSorry, this is off topic but it I didn't derai the thread, but perhaps it will eventually lead to a DOT that does;
September 4th, 2006 at 1:31 pm==
DENNIS MAHON is a former Imperial Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan and a consultant to the White Aryan Resistance (WAR). He used to visit ELOHIM CITY for ...
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/okcbomb2.htm
I think Karl Rove is a clever little professor, or asperger. He showed early signs of genius but he really is more like a idio-savant in that he is very good at one thing. Lying.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:34 pmSanto, it's spelled B-R-O-T-H-E-R-S, not "Brother."
September 4th, 2006 at 1:34 pm...I’m considered an expert on the subject.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 12:37 pm
whaaa???! says who??? i missed that...
September 4th, 2006 at 1:34 pmcongratulations?
I see Unbelieveable has her own personal troll with a serious multiple personality issue.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:38 pmABOUT TIME - discussing anything with a self-proclaimed "expert" is often telling....Naturally, designing schools makes one an expert on every type of architectural endeavor.
When a spinster school marm discusses the theories of child-rearing, I am LOL!! (You know what they say, those who can - do, those who can't - teach...) I guess all the rotten conservative parents of selfish children stand out among the crowd of latte and limo liberals. (I thought progs liked working mothers? At least all the lib gals I work with keep telling me THAT.) Maybe she could impart some of her "wisdom" on the erstwhile Kennedy parents - oops....toooooo late for that .....
We're off for a fun-filled family day!
September 4th, 2006 at 1:39 pmMarshall law would be hard to enforce due to the posse comitatus act [In 1878, Congress passed the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids military involvement in domestic law enforcement without congressional approval]
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet — September 4, 2006 @ 1:09 pm
Since when does the congress have shit to say about anything?
This has all been way too easy for the neo-cons. It has been proven to the inth degree that if sufficiently stmulated by fear, the american public will comply and will stand by while those deemed a threat (those who dissent) are dealt with. The data bases and massive amounts of information collected on millions of Americans since 1953 will make it easy to determine which of us don't make the cut. The mainstream media and telecommunications co. won't help us because they are already on board and will hand over control to the feds when the National emergency order is issued. Not that they don't already serve them .....just not "officially".
September 4th, 2006 at 1:39 pmI'm not thrilled about this, since so many people accepted without thinking anything they see on television as truth. I've *very* upset about Scholastic Magazine using this six-hour campaign ad as a teaching platform. http://content.scholastic.com/browse/lessonplan.jsp?id=415
September 4th, 2006 at 1:39 pmI've gone to their customer support section to decry this action, and shall contact local school boards to protest their using it, or Scholastic Magazine. Please feel free to join me in voicing your opinion to them.
martial law was put on the poor folks of louisiana. martial law is every bit of our society. what do you think the reich stag fire, ooops patriot act is.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:42 pmComment by ABOUT TIME
September 4th, 2006 at 1:43 pmIn all your stupid rantings will you post something of interest?
Since when does the congress have shit to say about anything?
==
I understand how you may feel, I am equally dissapointed in our Senate... But that is what we have to work with at this point in time.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:43 pmIn all your stupid rantings will you post something of interest?
--Juan C
They can't post anything of interest because it disproves whatever they are ranting about.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:46 pmComment by Monica's Stalker
SShh, Santo. Take the pills and the voices will go away.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:47 pmwe really don't have to work with this kind of ignorance if the american folks would bump their head. or let's just say, get involved and stop being so gullable that our gov. does no wrong because they loooooooove there americans.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:48 pmHappy Comrades Day…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Why do you have such hatred for America's workers? Calling working Americans "comrades' stinks of the same elitism you accuse us of. And you should let "little MA" out of the canary cage; it would be a good idea to treat her with a little more respect, as she' s going to be your sole source of support in a few years.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:48 pmIronically that is exactly why Mcveigh [A member of a Elohym group] a Repubican, blew up the Murrah Building..
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet — September 4, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
I certainly agree that the militant Republican system that helped create him as a fighting machine also turned him into someone who solved problems through violence. It was their way and they were surprised when it bit them, just as our government was surprised when Osama bit them too. The guy they funded, trained and taught VIOLENCE... surpsise, surprise used violence... What a bunch of idiots running the show.
And not what the majority of Americans wanted then or want now. There is no will of the people anymore.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:50 pmBarfly,
MA hates everyone and everything.
It never responds to me, thank goodness, maybe someone could ask it this question:
Who do you respect?
September 4th, 2006 at 1:51 pmIf they are all we have then...God help us all.
the public better get on their ass hard, heavy and fast.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:51 pmCause right now, counting on them is like spitting in the wind.
And not what the majority of Americans wanted then or want now. There is no will of the people anymore.
Comment by unbelievable
Actually Un I think we have pretty good will =)
September 4th, 2006 at 1:52 pmTrinary Sockpuppet,
Heh.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:53 pmI see Santo is still imprinted on you. :)
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
Lucky me...
Oh, come on, admit it Zoo, you save all of MA's posts too ; )
September 4th, 2006 at 1:54 pmIt was founded in 1973 by MIGHT APHRODITE, a Canadian..
Did I get that Right MA, your a canadian? Or are you wearing your Seixon wooden shoes today?
September 4th, 2006 at 1:55 pmwhy are you so concerned about a liar?
Comment by Monica's Stalker — September 4, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
Santo/Dr Joyce/Above the Law/Monica's Stalker/Demolition,
Juan C didn't mention Unbelievable, but I am going to go out on a limb and say he doesn't care for your personal problem with Unbelievable. Quite frankly, neither do I and I doubt anyone else does.
Either contribute with something meaningful for a change or go away. You are a worst nuisance than the trolls.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:56 pmlatte and limo liberals
September 4th, 2006 at 1:56 pmAgain MA proves how out of touch she is.
Liberals/Democrats/Progressives actually know what it's like to work for a living. It is the born with a silver-spoon, inherited wealth of the "brie and cheese" his phrase, of course) Bush ilk that belong in the latte and limo group of the Republiscum. The rest of us are drinking coffee from a mug at work and driving our own beat up automobiles.
The writer of this movie is a Bush supporter. Dispite his, ABC's, and the producer's latest comments, it is part of the Bush agenda to gather support for the conservatives. Boycott this film and call the sponsors of ABC and tell them you will boycott their products for supporting a film of lies and conservative/rightwing agenda. The writer of this film is Persian and was a supporter of the infamous Iranian Dictator, The Shaw of Iran.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:59 pmMA is an empty vessel. I dont know how people still engage with her. (Zoo, you can keep doing it. You are funny) :)
September 4th, 2006 at 2:00 pmbut i just don’t buy it!!! ..unbelievable.
Comment by ABOUT TIME — September 4, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
Why? You have an aversion to the truth?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:01 pmOh, come on, admit it Zoo, you save all of MA’s posts too ; )
Comment by unbelievable
No frickin' way, unbelievable. But if I did, I know i could find the perfect spot for them -- at the bottom of a latrine.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:02 pmYou pathetical people who see ghost
==
I dont see them. I feel the ektoplasmic coldness as I pass thru them however =)
/sarcon
September 4th, 2006 at 2:02 pm(Zoo, you can keep doing it. You are funny) :)
Comment by Juan C
I'm not voluteering for that duty. There are plenty of other people with quicker wit that can take on that bitch.
Good morning, Juan!
September 4th, 2006 at 2:04 pmwhaaa???! says who??? i missed that…
congratulations?
Comment by katy — September 4, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
Says a court of law. Now STFU. You're really very immature and it's really very obnoxious.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:05 pmBring it on liars! I can take you one at the time, there is not a lot of you in here anyway!
September 4th, 2006 at 2:06 pm==
Hey look George got drunk and has started his 'Bring it on!'' rabid rants again -- Here George, stand up!, Okay. Good boy. Now chew on this Pretzel and allow me to scoot this table over to catch your fall when you start choking er swallowing..
I feel the ektoplasmic coldness as I pass thru them however =)
/sarcon
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet
He he. I laugh like an idiot every time I remember Ghostbusters and Egon´s explanation of cosmic destruction with a twinky.
Good morning, Juan!
September 4th, 2006 at 2:08 pmComment by Zooey
Good morning? I am about to have lunch, Zoo. Where do you live? :)
This ghost will hunt you and your writings down till you change your mind again, get it?
Naw I kicked the Klipahs butt a long time ago Fabian. =)
September 4th, 2006 at 2:08 pmI have left a complaint with the contact us part of ABC's website. Can Think Progress leave a more direct email so that we can tell ABC what we think about this Right Wing Fantasy that they are calling a Documentary
September 4th, 2006 at 2:09 pmI see Unbelieveable has her own personal troll with a serious multiple personality issue.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — September 4, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
You want it? Free to a good home... (or the first taker :)
September 4th, 2006 at 2:09 pmNaturally, designing schools makes one an expert on every type of architectural endeavor.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 4, 2006 @ 1:39 pm
Further proof you are not a lawyer, or you'd know that my education and expertience qualify me as an expert.
I've designed much more than just schools. And in atleast 15 different states and four different countries.
As usual, your ignorance and inability to control your own self-imposed boycott on me is showing.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:11 pmFabio you really need to study more subjects;
Klipah [From Torah] is the power of anti-divinty, the force which tries to deter us from doing Gd's will. ..
September 4th, 2006 at 2:11 pmWhere do you live? :)
Comment by Juan C
The Great Red State of Idaho, USA
September 4th, 2006 at 2:11 pmReally Fabio, err King Gihdorah, get a book.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:13 pmNo Gregor, Unbelieveble played with fire and got burned on her own game!
Comment by Sandy — September 4, 2006 @ 1:39 pm
The fact that you actually believe that is further validation of my credibility. Thanks...
I bet Santo also argues with doctors and laywers about their expert opinions... LOL
September 4th, 2006 at 2:14 pmThat freedom of speech stuff is tricky ain't it ABC?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:14 pmThe Great Red State of Idaho, USA
Comment by Zooey
I knew that. Still burning the fields?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:14 pmUnaturally, unhinged freeper keyboarders makes one an expert on every type of every endeavor.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:14 pmComment by mighty aphrodite
I have your name and picture i don’t need your book.
Comment by The fabian strategy
And I have your mojo.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:15 pmThey can’t post anything of interest because it disproves whatever they are ranting about.
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet — September 4, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
They? Santo is many IDs - but just one court jester.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:20 pmFabians..hmm naw. I don't need any logos or symbols to teach me how to use my mind. Thanks anyway but I'm a lone wolf kinda guy..
September 4th, 2006 at 2:21 pmI, for one, have every intention of watching ABC's docu-drama, and here's why:
1. We already know that 9-11 took place on Bush's watch, and it was the incompetence of his Administration which led this tragedy to happen (this crap about Clinton being to blame simply doesn't wash -- Clinton WARNED him personally about al-Qaeda, the intelligence was THERE, but ignored, and people are STILL being stifled as to the truth of the run-up to 9-11).
2. I want to see if there will be any mention of Operation: ABLE DANGER. You know, the operatives who had actually IDENTIFIED the 9--11 hijackers, but whose intel was stifled by none other than...well, I'm sure you can figure it out (here's a hint: it WASN'T al-Qaeda).
3. Forewarned is forearmed, people, and in light of the fact that there is an election in which the certain Congressman and women are in some really big trouble in some very consequential races, I would like to see exactly what kind of spin it is that this "docu-drama" is supposed to contain that can be used by people in these races, and rest assured, if it can be, it will be. But hey, I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong...I just want to see this for myself to know for sure.
I have spoken.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:21 pmDid you learn that in college?
Comment by ABOUT TIME
Yes the invisible college of the sacred geometry..=)
September 4th, 2006 at 2:22 pmJacques Demolay isn't me =)
September 4th, 2006 at 2:24 pmActually Un I think we have pretty good will =)
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet — September 4, 2006 @ 1:52 pm
Where? In the economy? War on Iraq? Illegal wiretappings? No one in government represents the will of the people. It's extinct in government.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:25 pmhas anyone heard from harvey kietel or his rep. as to his take on this project and why he chose to do it?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:26 pmNo frickin’ way, unbelievable. But if I did, I know i could find the perfect spot for them — at the bottom of a latrine.
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 2:02 pm
I don't read most of them anymore. They're all the same - condescention based on emotion and really bad attempts at sarcasm. I think a latrine is kind... Hmm, perhaps he could line those canary cages with his wisdom?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:30 pmI just want to see this for myself to know for sure.
I have spoken.
Comment by THE SHADOWDRAGON
What you will see is this:
Good guy: I love America
September 4th, 2006 at 2:31 pmBad guy: I hate America
Good guy: How could this happen if we are so good with everybody?
Bad guy: Bwahahahaha.
Good guy: Im going to get you, punk!
Van Halen´s guitar while a jet cruises the sky with a flag waving.
End.
I knew that. Still burning the fields?
Comment by Juan C
*cough* Yes *cough*
It looks like some are being burned intentionally, and others by accident. It's worse today than yesterday, and it was bad yesterday!
My eldest son showed up on my doorstep alst night for a visit, so we're out of here for a while.
Have fun ya'll!
September 4th, 2006 at 2:31 pmI have your name and picture i don’t need your book.
Comment by The fabian strategy — September 4, 2006 @ 2:14 pm
Okay. I call... What's my name?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:34 pmIsn't this the puff piece to blame everything on Clinton? Who would want to watch another piece of fantasy programming anyway?
Last time I looked the only thing that mattered was "who is the President today? Under whose watch did these tragedies occur?". That's what's relevant and germane.
This sounds like another GOP blame game and not worth watching.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:35 pmWhat a flip floper!
Comment by Susy Lou — September 4, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
Santo,
A flip flopper is one who changes his or her mind. I haven't.
Shouldn't you be re-banned by now?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:36 pmClarification
...
2) This is not a right wing agenda movie…By the way, we are also being accused of being a left wing movie that bashes Bush.
why do the righties always try to lie about such info...
September 4th, 2006 at 2:37 pmdo they actually think it gives them more cred?
i hate when people try to pretend to be left/liberal/prog...
it's always so obvious what the true intentions are...
What else do you expect frm a show produced by Wingnuts?
Go here for the real answers.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:38 pmi hate when people try to pretend to be left/liberal/prog…
it’s always so obvious what the true intentions are…
Comment by katy — September 4, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
Then stop. You should try acting your age for a change. You're extremely immature for some one so old. And the fact that people younger than you have to point it out makes it that much more annoying. Grow up.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:40 pmYour name is for my people to know not for me to repeat in her like a yellow canary!
Comment by Sandy — September 4, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
Go ahead. I give you my permission. What's my name?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:41 pmYour name is for my people to know
Mentos
The ones in your head?
September 4th, 2006 at 2:42 pmMadashell,
Maybe they did. Loose Change just doesn't validate that. That's my point. That the buildings fell from the plane crashes and not explosives. Saying that there were explosives makes the entire premise incredible...
I studied this stuff and worked on many buildings in my career. The theory put forth in Loose Change in regard to the towers collapse is really significantly flawed.
I just don't see the evidence that they did anything more than allow it to happen. Until I do, I can't get on board. Nothing personal.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:44 pmNone of the sites I posted have anything to do with the MOVIE Loose Change -
September 4th, 2006 at 2:45 pmMentos
Comment by Barfly — September 4, 2006 @ 2:42 pm
Nope. Not even close.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:45 pmSo long as the "docudrama" includes the part where Junior accepts the PDB and says "Okay, you've covered your ass. You can get out now."
September 4th, 2006 at 2:46 pmLoose Change is synonymous with the Alternative Inside Job Theories. Stuff about conspiracy being found in the building falling in upon itself, instead of falling over. When, in reality, buildings are simply too large to do anything but fall in upon themselves. They don't ever fall over. There are no forces in nature large enough to push them over. And so on...
September 4th, 2006 at 2:48 pmWHY are people NOT WILLING to listen to these people:
Scholars for 9/11 Truth (S9/11T) is a non-partisan association of faculty, students, and scholars, in fields as diverse as history, science, military affairs, psychology, and philosophy, dedicated to exposing falsehoods and to revealing truths behind 9/11.
The members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth are encouraged to take an active role by devoting themselves to reporting the results of research on 9/11 to the nation and the world by means of lectures, articles, and other venues.
Scholars for 9/11 Truth members are convinced their research proves the current administration has been dishonest about what happened in New York and Washington, D.C.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:53 pmPartly because they are scholars and not experts practicing in their fields... Speculation is great, you just don't hang your hat on it.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:54 pmWhy Doubt 9/11?
by James H. Fetzer
As the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, I would observe that our members, building on prior research by earlier students of 9/11, have established more than a dozen disproofs of the official government account, the truth of any one of which is enough to show that the government's account--in one or another of its guises--cannot possibly be correct.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:55 pmMentos
Nope. Not even close.
Comment by unbelievable
I think it fits Santo's candy-ass arguments.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:56 pmHow come, if CBS can pull "The Reagans" which was a ridiculous piece of work (although I did find it a bit amusing, fun and with good acting - both nominated for Golden Globes and Emmys - not to mention a great top-notch director), then why shouldn't ABC pull this propoganda? Of course with such glorious credits as "Little House on the Prarie" and "Falcon Crest", let's give this director and writer 13 more episodes and make it a Fall Series!
September 4th, 2006 at 2:58 pmDixie,
In physics, there is no force great enough to tip a 208' building 104' off its center of gravity. Partly why they build them with such large footprints. For exactly what you said - so in the event of a catastrophy, you don't harm more people than necessary.
The intent of building codes and reduncency in structural engineering isn't to prevent all catastrophies - but to minimize their impact. Because we know that we cannot prevent everything.
For instance, building insulation is not designed for impact loads, because in most cases, there are no impacts upon the fireproofing. On 9/11, the planes impacted the fireproofing on the center columns and took away their ability to withstand fire - which in turn weakened them enough to fail.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:59 pmDIGG IT!
September 4th, 2006 at 3:00 pmhttp://digg.com/political_opinion/Under_Fire_ABC_Yanks_Official_Blog_of_9_11_Docudrama
I think it fits Santo’s candy-ass arguments.
Comment by Barfly — September 4, 2006 @ 2:56 pm
True :)
September 4th, 2006 at 3:00 pmOkay - this is exactly what I expected, I guess. Here is a partial list of the SCHOLARS I'm talking about -
Derrick P. Grimmer
Physics, Alternative energy
David Griscom
Physics of optical materials, Materials science and engineering, Author/co-author of nearly 200 publications
Andrew Johnson
Physics, Computer Science, Software Engineering
Steven Jones
Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, co-chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and the creator of its home page and its forum
George Nelson
Colonel, USAF (retired)
Joseph M. Phelps
Structural Dynamicist Charter Member, Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers
Doyle Winterton
Civil Engineering Structural Engineering
and here's the COMPLETE list: Who Are We?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:02 pmFollow the money.
Find out what favors Disney has been getting from the Bush regime. It is obvious they have a corrupt quid pro quo relationship. Is Disney getting special tax cuts? no bid contracts? regulatory favors? FCC sweetheart deals?
It is always about corporate profits. Disney has decided to whore for the Bush regime in exchange for govt favors.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:02 pmWill this troll now run or give up some info? Just another riechwing blowhard!!!
Comment by dixie blood — September 4, 2006 @ 2:58 pm
He doesn't know. He's been threatening since February to show up at my house, expose my real identity and so on. It's just empty bully tactics that I don't fall for.
I figure if he knew, he'd have said by now...
September 4th, 2006 at 3:02 pmSorry Unbelievable - BUT I will believe the professors who have PROVEN otherwise your statement:
The impact of the planes cannot have caused enough damage to bring the buildings down, since the buildings were designed to withstand them (as Frank DeMartini, the project manager, has observed), the planes that hit were very similar to those they were designed to withstand, and they continued to stand after those impacts with negligible effects.
The melting point of steel at 2,800*F is about 1,000*F higher than the maximum burning temperature of jet-fuel-based fires, which do not exceed 1,800*F under optimal conditions, so the fires cannot have caused the steel to melt, which means that melting steel did not bring the buildings down.
UL certified the steel in the buildings up to 2,000*F for at least six hours before it would even significantly weaken, where these fires burned too low and too briefly--about one hour in the South Tower and one and a half in the North--to have even caused the steel to weaken, much less melt.
If the steel had melted or weakened, the affected floors would have displayed completely different behavior, with some asymmetrical sagging and tilting, which would have been gradual and slow, not the complete, abrupt, and total demolition that was observed.
There was not enough kinetic energy for the collapse of one floor to bring about the collapse of the next lower floor, even if the impact of the planes and the ensuing fires had been enough to cause the steel to weaken, which means that, even if one floor had collapsed due to the impacts and the fires, that could not have caused lower floors to fall.
There was not enough kinetic energy for the collapse of one floor to bring about the pulverization of the next floor, even if the impact of the planes and the ensuing fires had been enough to cause the steel to weaken and one floor to collapse upon another, which required a massive source of energy beyond any that the government has considered.
Heavy steel construction buildings like the Twin Towers, built with more than 100,000 tons of steel, are not even capable of "pancake collapse", which can only occur with concrete structures of "lift slab" construction and could not occur in "redundant" welded-steel buildings, such as the towers, unless every supporting column were removed at the same time, as Charles Pagelow has pointed out to me.
The destruction of the South Tower in 10 seconds and of the North in 11 is even faster than free fall with only air resistance, which would have taken at least 12 seconds, which, as Judy Wood has emphasized, is an astounding result that would have been impossible without extremely powerful explosives.
The towers are exploding from the top, not collapsing to the ground, where the floors do not move, a phenomenon that Judy Wood has likened to two gigantic trees turning to sawdust from the top down, which, like the pulverization of the concrete, the official account cannot possibly explain.
Pools of molten metal were found at the subbasement levels three, four, and five weeks later, an effect that could not have been produced by the plane-impact/jet-fuel-fire/pancake collapse scenario, which, of course, implies that it was not produced by such a cause.
WTC-7 came down in a classic controlled demolition at 5:20 PM/ET after Larry Silverstein suggested the best thing to do might be to "pull it", displaying all the characteristics of classic controlled demolitions, including a complete, abrupt, and total collapse into its own footprint, where the floors are all falling at the same time, and so forth, an event so embarrassing to the official account that it is not even mentioned in THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:04 pmMadashell,
How are you missing the point that scholars are NOT experts? And that steel doesn't have to MELT to fail?
You can believe them all you want. It's just that people who have built buildings (me and the many people I know from the time I started college 22 years ago) don't need to believe. We know from accepting what we have experience doing.
Who would you allow to operate on you in heart surgery? A phD with no heart surgeries under her belt, or a Heart surgeon with 14 years of herat surgeries under her belt?
Tome, the choice isn't even one I have to think about. And it applies aptly to the experts on buildings - those who have spent years building them, not just studying the idea of building them.
Sorry. The examples you posted are flawed, and not based on my experience or those I know in the profession.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:12 pmAs per the Fabian, I am reading your Ricardian theory.
http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/schools/ricardian.htmyour R
September 4th, 2006 at 3:13 pmDid I see Jesus on CNN flash by as the page loaded?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:14 pmAnother thing Unbelievable - more than 40% of our population is starting to QUESTION all things related to 9/11, and are jumping on the bandwagon as well.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:18 pmWhat I want to know is this;
Did the WTC have explosive charges installed as part of the building code to keep the buildings from toppling that could be set off to prevent such topple?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:21 pmSo what is one to do - believe a high school science teacher or a University Professor when it comes to PHYSICS?
Comment by madashell — September 4, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
When it comes to Statics (structural physics), you should believe someone who has successfully designed and built buildings.
Prior to becoming an Architecture teacher (I teach Architecture this year), I designed and had built approximately 16 different buildings around the world and another 40-50 interior spaces in skyscrapers. So far, everything is still standing except a restaurant I designed in Taiwan that was destroyed by an earthquake). That would, as I keep pointing out, in a court of law, make me an expert on building design. Not so for the college professor who hasn't really tested any of his hypothesis in the real word.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:22 pmSeptember 4th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
not college professor, college professorSSSSSSS
Civil engineers and even those involved in the building of the TOWERS!
September 4th, 2006 at 3:24 pmAll I can say is Harvey Keitel is dead to me now. Once you take the wingnut walk, there is no coming back.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:24 pmAnother thing Unbelievable - more than 40% of our population is starting to QUESTION all things related to 9/11, and are jumping on the bandwagon as well.
Comment by madashell — September 4, 2006 @ 3:18 pm
38-40% still support Bush...
September 4th, 2006 at 3:24 pmhe fact that a Spanish skyscraper is still standing after an intense fire consumed the steel and concrete tower for 24 hours provides real ...
September 4th, 2006 at 3:27 pmhttp://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_9-11.html
i hate when people try to pretend to be left/liberal/prog…
it’s always so obvious what the true intentions are…
Comment by katy — September 4, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
Then stop. You should...
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
aww... did you think i meant that for YOU?
really, project and/or transfer much? truth: it wasn't...
#247-katy,
It’s the same old “Some of my best friends are…(fill in the blank)†bulls!t.
Comment by dixie blood — September 4, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
yep... there's lots of them... but it's so obvious...
September 4th, 2006 at 3:27 pmand so unnecessary...
glad you got that...
aww… did you think i meant that for YOU?
really, project and/or transfer much? truth: it wasn’t…
Comment by katy — September 4, 2006 @ 3:27 pm
Yes it was. You're not only immature but transparent. And, apparently, a liar when called out on your immaturity.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:30 pmIf there is anything that compels me to attempt to see my fellow Americans as they really are, rather than the way I would like them to be, it's the continuing support Bush receives in this country. To paraphrase Judge Welch of Joe McCarthy fame: "Have you people no brains, at long last, have you no brains?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:36 pmand what are they? No nothings?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmI left a comment questioning the bias of the writer/producer...funny it never made their website....chicken shits.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:42 pmThere’s just no way Muslims can do this! They’re a peace loving bunch. Besides only us whites can do this. Arabs are just too stupid to have pulled off 9/11!
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 3:40 pm
Oh God.
Here we go again.
Ok people, some dickhead too afraid to meet me in open debate has decided to forge my handle and post crap.
I didn't post this.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#322
You're not qualified anymore than anyone else that NEVER had an opportunity to examine the debris.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:43 pmAllah is definently infecting you with madness. We’re triumphant everywhere. Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Lebanon.
And what? Your gonna throw sand in our face and make us convert so we can become dirt farmers? In case you haven't noticed fake extremist, we are mostly against this war. Tell you what, if you want to be a messenger write an email to the white house with what you just posted and you will likely be bush's next Osama puppet.
Excuse me If I snicker at your inane rants.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:44 pmLeftists Marxist allies. You guys are a bunch of no life crazies!
Marx was Jewish you ding dong his name was really Levy.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pmBesides what Marx wrote was written in a dualistic fashon, it was never for the working man...
It is generally good history and accurately conveys the excruciating missed opportunities. It is not partisan. The Bush administration is portrayed as just as asleep-at-the-switch as the Clinton administration — particularly in the person of then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice (the Clarke influence really comes through here).
The fact, though, is that Clinton had eight times as long as Bush to deal with this crisis, and his administration's performance was wanting. They did some good things — the terror prosecutions were successful if ineffectual, and the 1996 anti-terror legislation was excellent — it is still more important than the Patriot Act in terms of counterterrorism enforcement. But they also dropped the ball very badly in several places. The Wall was an unmitigated disaster, and the Clinton administration simply had other priorities — concerns over hypothetical civil liberties problems, the quest to solve the Israeli/Palestinian issue, worries over what the "international community" would say if America took decisive action against bin Laden in Sudan or Afghanistan — that caused them to subordinate the al Qaeda threat.
It doesn't mean President Clinton didn't care about the bin Laden threat. I think he cared deeply about it. I think President Bush cares deeply about the Iranian threat. But history is not about our hearts; it's about our actions.
And the people trying to smear this film are the same ones who insist the Bush administration had bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora and incompetently let him get away. If we have to listen to that riff, is it not at least equally appropriate to point out that: bin Laden was a big problem from at least 1996 on; that he was placed under indictment in Spring 1998 to facilitate his capture; that he thereafter bombed the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and the U.S.S. Cole, and probably had a hand in the Millennium plot against LA Int'l Airport (to say nothing of the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing); and that the Clinton administration did not take the actions necessary to stop him despite knowing where bin Laden was and having several opportunities to capture or kill him?
That's how it happened, like it or not.
Andrew C. McCarthy
September 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pmFormer federal prosecutor - U.S Attorney Office for SDNY
Led prosecution of Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman
Successfully defended several terrorism convictions on appeal, including those in the Millennium plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport
You are aginst war. We love it! That’s why we’re kicking some American infidel ass! Your kids will recite the Koran, there’s no appeasing us!
Comment by Jamal
I am against the Iraq war because it was the Wahabbis that were the attackers. I am all for taking out the wahhabis such as yourself, Bush is just a blind reactionary fool, and a Republican, which I am not.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:48 pmI'm sure Exley will pretend congress passed all the terror initiative legislation that Clinton proposed so he can absolve the GOP of any responsibility.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:50 pmThe fact, though, is that Clinton had eight times as long as Bush to deal with this crisis,
Wrong the WTC was attacked in clintons first month in office.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:51 pmThe WTC was attacked under bush in his ninth month in office. Well past the 100 days. Not only that Bush took a month of vacation in August, to clear Brush, and basically ignored the PDB
What 'facts' do you have Unbelievable?
The facts that came from a complete evaluation of the buildings remains?
When did that happen?
September 4th, 2006 at 3:54 pmTELL ABC TO BURN THAT BUNCH OF GUTTER TRASH LIES!
AND DISNEY TOO!
!
September 4th, 2006 at 3:57 pmI am not knocking anyone here or their education or credentias, but it just doesn’t seem to me a 767 would knock down the WTC….
Comment by Trinary Sockpuppet — September 4, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
Most of the jet fuel leaked on to the floor and caught the entire thing on fire. Remember all that smoke? It's what caused equal compromise of the floor system and caused it to fail.
The proof that a plane can collapse a tower is in the simplicity that it collapsed two... Under the same situation, both buildings faild because of the same factor - the planes.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:58 pmThen don’t talk to me like I’m lying when I’ve always been up front about what I’ve done and what I do now. I’m an architect who became a teacher last year. You know that. Even well before the 9/11 stuff came up.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 3:52 pm
No. I didn't remember that. I talk to about 200 bloggers a day. I knew you did something but I didn't remember.
And if you want to get pissed at me fine.
Take a number and get in line.
September 4th, 2006 at 3:58 pmComment by mighty aphrodite
Eating their own is something the Republicans have been doing alot of lately, that is when they aren't jumping ship..
September 4th, 2006 at 3:58 pmHe also said IF there was some sort of phenomenon that caused one of the buildings to drop perfectly into its own footprint
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 3:35 pm
Except that buildings physically can only fall on their own footprint at this size. There is no other option.
NONE. Go study Statics and learn for yourself.
You sure this guy is a structural engineer on buildings higher than one story? Because he doesn't sound like any that I know, and I've worked on a couple high-rise ones.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:01 pm[...] Of course groups like Soros’s “Think Progress” are barking that it’s all a fraud because the director is conservative and Rush Limbaugh are talking it up. But factually they haven’t presented anything that refutes the facts in the movie, which takes it’s script in large part from the 9/11 Commission Report, which incidently they have no problem with when it faults the present administration. [...]
September 4th, 2006 at 4:01 pmYes space aliens did 9/11 that's what all right wing dum A%@ would say when they are put on the spot about truth. So use my name as you will because i will be laughing at you when you find that you are just a puppet of the right wing christian fundamentalist have fun with my name.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:09 pmThe proof that a plane can collapse a tower is in the simplicity that it collapsed two… Under the same situation, both buildings faild because of the same factor - the planes.
Comment by unbelievable
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
well Im gonna do some more reading, but nevertheless, what caused the building to fall, there are just too many unanswered questions as to why Able Danger knew of these Hijakers and Sibel Edmonds story also comes to mind..
And it happened on Bushs watch. Trying to blame Clinton is just silly, We should Blame Bush Sr, and Reagan for training the Freedom Fighters,,
September 4th, 2006 at 4:09 pmVariety's review:
By BRIAN LOWRY
Perhaps unavoidably, ABC's "The Path to 9/11" plays like a compendium of movies and documentaries surrounding that fateful day -- a pinch of "United 93" here, a dollop of "World Trade Center" there. Derived in part from the 9/11 Commission report, this five-hour presentation is earnest but scattered and a little plodding, with the most powerful aspect involving John O'Neill, the terrorism expert slain in the attack, strongly played by Harvey Keitel. Although NBC cleared ABC's path by scrubbing its own planned 9/11 miniseries, it's still a trail littered with the host of productions that preceded it.
Indeed, the sheer glut of 9/11-related programming during the run-up to the fifth anniversary has risked trivializing those events -- as if this were Valentine's Day or Halloween, triggering all those themed episodes that networks trot out.
Judged strictly on its merits, "Path to 9/11" -- drawn from several books as well as the commission report, with co-chairman Thomas H. Kean onboard as a producer-consultant -- is certainly ambitious, chronologically bracketed by the two assaults on the World Trade Center in 1993 and 2001.
That project's breadth, however, ultimately seems to overwhelm writer Cyrus Nowrasteh and director David L. Cunningham, whose narrative has strong moments and stylish touches but only begins to coalesce well into the second night. Moreover, the material's complexity almost requires characters to deliver clunky, expository speeches, unlike the various documentaries covering this terrain.
At its core is O'Neill, the FBI terrorism chief who became convinced that Osama bin Laden posed a formidable danger to the U.S. but, thanks to petty bureaucracy, found few allies. He would eventually leave the FBI and, in a note of tragic irony, become security director for the World Trade Center, where he died on Sept. 11.
O'Neill's fellow Chicken Little is security adviser Richard Clarke (Stephen Root), who exhibits mounting frustration as President Clinton's administration zippers problems and the Bush regime assume a maddeningly indifferent posture toward the threat.
"No one's taking terrorism seriously," O'Neill huffs at one point. "No one seems to care."
Another thread features a CIA agent (Donnie Wahlberg) similarly thwarted in his attempts to help Afghanistan's Northern Alliance, whose charismatic leader, Massoud (Mido Hamada), was targeted for assassination for opposing Al Qaeda.
Not surprisingly, the overall tone is grim, and the fact there's no suspense regarding the near misses and foiled chances to nail "the Tall One," as bin Laden is called, isn't particularly conducive to constructing a thriller.
Initially scheduled for six hours, ABC is airing the project with limited interruption that will translate to about five commercial minutes per hour, or less than a third of the normal load.
There have been several memorable and occasionally haunting productions related to Sept. 11, as well as documentaries such as Court TV's 9/11 Commission recap "On Native Soil." Ultimately, those narrower tales offer a clearer picture than this more sweeping view, which crams a decade's worth of incompetence and overlooked warning signs into one comprehensive package.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:10 pmAnd NONE of that explains why building number 7 dropped in the EXACT SAME FASHION as the towers, HOURS LATER.
So I am to assume this building was UNIQUE too UnB?
This building just happened to collapse from a fire, and drop in a controlled fashion right into its own footprint?
September 4th, 2006 at 4:10 pmOk. Well we agree to disagree. 3 years as a structural engineer in college doesn’t equate to a man who’s been a structural engineer in the field for 38 years, and who works for one of the largest construction firms in DC.
Not what I said. I worked there in college and 3 years AFTER college. Designing towers... And my experience is actually greater if this guy has never designed towers.
Wait - he works for a construction firm, and not a structural engineer? You know that's not the same, right?
I don’t know for sure mind you, but everything I’ve heard, read, and everything I saw with my own two eyes on that morning tells me that these buildings were scuttled.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
People used to think a solar eclipse meant that their gods were angry with them... I just don't go on feelings when it comes to these things.
Sure, Bush is responsible for allowing it to happen. He's not capable of orchestrating it. He couldn't find oil. In Texas. In the 70s...
September 4th, 2006 at 4:11 pmYou stupid Americans, we did it. Americans are too stupid to have pulled this off. You’re a cowardly stupid, illiterate bunch!
Comment by Jamal
No Jamal you didn't do anything, but if you keep ranting on that you did you might just get a visit from the men in black..
September 4th, 2006 at 4:11 pmI just don’t go on feelings when it comes to these things.
…
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 4:11 pm
Lets see. I just posted about what I have read, and what I have heard from a 38 year veteren of structural engineering, and you are now claiming I am going on my feelings.
:|
Ok.
I'm done.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:15 pmThis is a paper argueing against the “Official†report of the Towers, if you care to look.
(and you can read it en espanol, Juan! )
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 3:48 pm
This isn't about me believing the "official report". It's about me thinking for myself and based on my education and experience forming my own conclusion no matter how unpopular it is with the occultists around here...
September 4th, 2006 at 4:17 pmWORFEUS
Were the steel beams in direct contact with anything flamable? How good an insulator is concrete anyway?
Comment by Bruce Gorton — September 4, 2006 @ 4:15 pm
I don't know Bruce, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that iIF the beam were as hot as Unb is claiming, that SOMEONE, of the thousands of survivors from the buildings would have reported heat from the elevator shafts.
And the people on the 90th floor who were rescued reported no heat below the impact site.
That just does NOT indicate the center support was as hot as UnB claims, particular 50 stories down.
If the planes had hit the 30th floor, then maybe I'd by it.
But this plane was up on the 93rd FLOOR! Almost at the TOP OF THE BUILDING!!!
How does that cause the center support to break 50, 60, 70, 80 or 90 stories DOWN?????
And WHERE WAS THE HEAT??????
NO SURVIVORS REPORT ANY DOWN THERE.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:19 pmThe Aliens control the Christian Fundamentalists!
It is rather odd they call their group the 'Elohim'..and that EL, Thoht, speaks of spaceships under the Sphinx..Actually I think Satan just told the Christians he was an angel from outerspace [Heaven] =0]
September 4th, 2006 at 4:19 pmA. I am giving you his words filtered through my brother.
Like that telephone game? :)
B. I never said that he said the steel had to melt. He just said that the heat 30 or 40 floors below could have NEVER been hot enough to collapse the center support.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
Sure, but that wasn't the scenario there. I'm getting tired of repeating myself... But the steel was compromised enough to fail. The connectors that held the floor system in place were something new and failed - with the entire floor on fire asa result of the spilled jet fuel - creating the monentum... and it went from there.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:22 pmthe occultists around here…
Where Where?
September 4th, 2006 at 4:24 pmOh you mean Jamal the extremst elohim freeper and Aphrodite the moonbat moon goddess?
I knew you did something but I didn’t remember.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 3:58 pm
So if you don't remember, then don't accuse me of being dishonest.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:25 pmcome on you sound like Sean Hannity IF you acting like a some kid you will prove something keep try. The reason you keep picking someone name to is because truth will all ways come on aliens or Islamic need 9/11 just you and the American and the real killers of 9/11 will go free and that will be on all of us that live in what was the great place that was what I like to call the old American. Maybe oneday we all can go back to that place that we all loved so much peace and love to all American that are still there wich i hope that there is some of us still out that do not have to act like a kid like the one that dose not have intelligence to say some that will prove me and all of the crazy nut jobs wrong but i know they can't.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:28 pmYea and if the fire was as hot as you claim then the survivors on the floors just below would have been incinerated. But the survivors tell a vastly DIFFERERNT story than what you are telling us.
Fires are hot. I mean, how does someone in a crisis know the difference between 1400 and 1600 degrees?
The survivors said the fires were out on many floors, and reported no heat in the stairwells beneath the impact floors and the immediate surrounding floors.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 4:00 pm
Okay, buildings are designed with escape routes. The building have stairtowers constructed of concrete (doesn't burn, has sealed openings and has a four hour minimum fire-rating). Therfore there would be no heat in the stairwells. It's how they are designed.
The fire only needed to be on one floor - the one with the jet fuel to compromise the clips that hiold the floor sytem in place to start the process. you didn't need fire on multiple floors. Just one. It's all it takes...
September 4th, 2006 at 4:29 pmjudging by her rampant GOP worship she would agree with, and she is still trying to tear you down. Maybe she isn’t a conservative, maybe she is just effing loony. Comment by Bruce Gorton — September 4, 2006 @ 4:05 pm
Excellent catch! I think you're right. As usual :)
September 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pmWhen the jets hit the wtc the big fire ball was the jet fule how much do you think would be leaft.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pmWould whoever is trying to forment a flame war between Worfeus and Unbelievable please go drown themselves in a toilet? Both are normally fairly nice people, so I honestly don't think they are going around mispelling everything at each other.
That said back to the argument:
Worfeus (The one I am assuming is the real Worfeus): Would the people have really noticed though? I mean, you have a certain amount of adrenaline pumping through you, you are moving as fast as you can and you are in a fair crowd, are you going to notice the heat in a specific area? Particularly the lift shafts?
September 4th, 2006 at 4:34 pmI'm satisfied with the evidence that the towers did not come down as a result of high temperature fires melting the steel structures, but as the result of pre-placed explosives. That raises the question: who placed the explosives in the building?
Is it possible that the explosives were placed in the buildings when they were constructed so that the towers could easily be demolished if needed? The crashing airplanes with the attendant fires might have been insufficient to melt the steel structures but sufficient to ignite the pre-positioned explosives.
The existence of the pre-positioned explosives would have been suppressed because of liability issues and fear of negative publicity: who would want to work or live in a building that was full of explosives?
This would explain how Building 7, which was not hit by any airplanes and which did not have high temperature fires, was demolished at the direction "pull it" by the building's owner.
Is this theory anywhere near the realm of the possible?
September 4th, 2006 at 4:38 pmOkay, buildings are designed with escape routes. The building have stairtowers constructed of concrete (doesn’t burn, has sealed openings and has a four hour minimum fire-rating). Therfore there would be no heat in the stairwells. It’s how they are designed.
The fire only needed to be on one floor - the one with the jet fuel to compromise the clips that hiold the floor sytem in place to start the process. you didn’t need fire on multiple floors. Just one. It’s all it takes…
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 4:29 pm
Naahhh. Not gonna buy that. The heat would definately have been in the elevator shafts which run through the center of the building. Also even with concrete, a fire hot enough to cause fire treated steel to just sorta "dissolve" as you'd have us believe, would have to be felt throughout the building. Certainly the people on the 90th floor would have felt a 3000 degree fire.
But they didn't. Why? Because there wasn't one.
Jet fuel doesn't burn that hot, and jet fuel burns QUICK.
REAL QUICK.
In fact, all the experts I've read say the jet fuel had burned up in MINUTES.
All that was burning was office materials (drywall, paper, desks etc).
By your deduction, all one would have to do to drop the Twin Towers would be to start a fire on the 93rd floor.
By your logic, a fire on the 93rd floor of the Trade Centers would cause the buildings to just collapse, and THATS ridiculous.
Sorry Unb. We agree to disagree.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:38 pmThe agent provocateurs posse has arrived I see. Honestly, you guys, just by being here and trying so hard to derail the topic actually help vindicate this site. If it wasn't a threat to you or your "obviously correct" viewpoints you'd not be here trolling like crazy. You'd have better more important things to do with your time.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:39 pmSorry to mess in this great discussion:
Under the same situation, both buildings faild because of the same factor - the planes.
Comment by unbelievable
I can agree with that. But as I recalled the WTC were designed to support plane crashes as supposed by his japanese designer. I saw this on History Channel.
So was it the fire or the impact?
How much can a fuel burn? 1400 °C? How much does it take to melt steel? 1500-2000°C? Maybe it just got to the steel got to the austenitic region and became less resistant. That could do it.
My own most important question is: why do we plan to take the buildings down? Why not just ramming them with planes? Besides a controlled demolition would have required a lot of suspicious electricians, cable guys, pizza boys, whatever, roaming the building. Could be but thats difficult. The important thing here is not if the buildings were planned to fall or not, but if the plane hijackings were in fact supported by members of the government. The terrorist acts were the plane crashings, not the buildings falling. There is a lot of suspicions on the whole 9/11 issues. Most important: the "plane" crashing the pentagon. Wheres that plane? Why doesnt the government show the videos of that "plane"? It will be really helpful for them to people look at an actual plane crashing the pentagon. It would inflame the hearts of all pathetic patriots. My guess: They dont show it, cause theres no plane.
And just a remark to Unbelievable. I think of you as a highly intelligent person, but describing yourself as an expert doesnt add too much to the debate; in fact, it makes you look not that smart. Your harsh responses on this subject, as if we are all lunatics cause we doubt "proofs", seem to me as if you were being personally attacked at your knowledge or your experience. At least I know I dont. It would help a lot to understanding that you put the guard down a little. Peace.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:39 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — September 4, 2006 @ 1:39 pm
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 4, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
Damn, woman, are you ever true to your word? I thought we were rid of you for the whole day!
September 4th, 2006 at 4:41 pmI don't know... I think conservatives are just as likely as the rest of us to be watching the Manning Bowl that night. That sounds like it could be a great game. Family values and everything. :)
So I think ABC's likely to lose big that night. Not sure why they thought it would be a good idea to schedule it across from an NFL opener!
September 4th, 2006 at 4:49 pmopcit,
it's a smart move, actually. Rednecks, who will be watching football, will simply parrot the Rush Limbaugh talking points about the movie the next day.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:51 pm#447 Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
It's still conjecture, which is all that we're left with. There are absolutely no facts concerning the cause of the collapse other than they were hit by airplanes.
Which is exactly why this administration should be held accountable for the complete lack of any comprehensive investigation.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:52 pmWORFEUS,
You’re nothing but a stinking low life liar. You live in a fantasy world of lies. You might as well belive Aliens did it!
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 4:17 pm
Not me either...
September 4th, 2006 at 4:58 pmYou show that docudrama and I'll boycott you and your sponsors-period.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pmI wonder if WE THE PEOPLE paid for this propaganda. How will we ever know?
September 4th, 2006 at 5:14 pmIt’s still conjecture, which is all that we’re left with. There are absolutely no facts concerning the cause of the collapse other than they were hit by airplanes.
It's educated conjecture based on experience. Just like math or gravity... That's my point. That I'm not just speculating, but giving my professional opinion. HUGE difference....
Which is exactly why this administration should be held accountable for the complete lack of any comprehensive investigation.
Comment by AnAmerican — September 4, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
No argument from me.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:23 pmarghhh....
doesn't like 'less than' signs...
anyway, both columns never achieved temps exceeding 250 degrees celsius.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:23 pmOk, so, your facts have become opinions.
I'll agree with that.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:27 pm#478
2 core columns in the impact area never received temperatures exceeding 250 degrees celsius
Which facts are you using?
September 4th, 2006 at 5:37 pmThis is a classic example of how history is rewriten. It is up to us to educate ourselves for the GOP will only distort then blame.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:38 pmABC network is a propoganda machine for the Republican party. I refuse to listen to any of its programing ever again!!!!!!!!
September 4th, 2006 at 5:39 pmUn and all. Thanks for the debate, it has been good to see all sides of the picture today.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:42 pmI am not going to watch it, so I won't know who the advertisers are.
All I can say, is if anyone wants to post a list of those companies advertising, I'll email them to notify them of my personal boycott of their products.
Peace all, spending the day with my family!
Jeebus,
What a frickin' shit storm.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:49 pmYou seem to be missing that I’m the one getting attacked.
Comment by unbelievable
IMHO, nobody attacked you. WORFEUS was disputing things you said were facts. It is very much likely that we are all wrong and you are right about this matter, but disputing events that require a full objective investigation from the government is not the same as attacking you. And, to say that you are an expert, which it is very likely that you are but has nothing to do with the discussion, can be seen as arrogant (I take this from madashell). And calling you arrogant is still not an attack, but a description of your words.
I hope you catch this as a simple comment from a simple guy. I still like everything you post.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:50 pmSecond WTC Janitor Comes Forward With Eye-Witness Testimony ... 4 workshop of the north tower on 9/11, heard a bomb-like explosion, had his hair burned and ...
http://www.williambowles.info/911/controlled_demo2.html
How can anyone explain these Janitors getting burned before the airplanes had hit??
September 4th, 2006 at 5:51 pmWhat a frickin’ shit storm.
Comment by Zooey
But I learned a lot. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 5:52 pmBut I learned a lot. :)
Comment by Juan C
Every cloud has a silver lining! :)
September 4th, 2006 at 5:53 pmLater, zoo. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 5:55 pmNonsense. And the fact that you called a column a beam shows that you are not qualified to debate this matter with me as an expert… That was a pretty big faux pas. Like people who call concrete “cementâ€.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 4:47 pm
I'm not an expert in the area, as I told you earlier. But that doesn't mean I'm not "qualified" as you say. I worked construction for 7 years in my 20's.
I worked concrete, FOOTINGS AND FOUNDATIONS. I set 4 and 8 foot concrete forms all day long for years. Know what a whaler is? Bet you don't. I am no expert and I often call things by a name that is incorrect, but that doesnt' impact my argument in this case one bit.
I don't buy your story about the burning jet fuel leaking down the center support. It was on fire, and would have burned up in minutes, and I doubt non one would have noticed in the stairwells. Did you LOOK at where the stairwells are in relation to the center support? Where did the fire get air in that shaft?
Besides.
Fire weakens steel TEMPORARILY.
As soon as the fire is out, the steel is tempered and regains and in some case, as in forging, is even harder than before. NOT weaker. Fire only weakens the steel while its burning. Are you trying to tell me that the planes jet fuel made it IN BOTH BUILDING RIGHT TO THE CENTER SUPPORT, and poured down the support, burning until the bulding fell?
I dont' buy it.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:56 pmWTC janitor (non) story reveals mainstream news complicity in 9/11 coverup ... severely burned from fire coming up the shaft from the basement explosion. ...
==
Up the Shaft??
On the morning of 9/11 Rodriguez, 44, was huddled together with 14 other people in a sub level 1 basement office, preparing for a day’s work like he did every day for 20 years at the WTC. Without warning, suddenly the group felt a tremendous explosion emanating from somewhere below them in one of the five WTC sub levels.
Not only did the group hear the explosion, all 14 felt the floor tremble and saw the walls crack just seconds before the group heard another distant explosion coming from high above. Although unaware of the cause, Rodriguez later learned the second explosion, occurring seconds after the first basement blast, turned out to be the jetliner strike.
Further evidence of a tremendous basement blast came moments later when a man by the name of Felipe David, burnt on his face, arms and hands, entered the office yelling "explosion, explosion, explosion!"
David had been standing at a nearby sub level 1 freight elevator shaft when he was severely burned from fire coming up the shaft from the basement explosion.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:58 pmSorry to chase you off, Juan! I'll probably get off this thread anyway. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 5:59 pmI bet we won't be seeing rodriguez in this ABC fake-o-drama either...
September 4th, 2006 at 5:59 pmwell, i find you pretty "believable." and i'm a certified tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.
someone above pointed out the attacks was about the planes hitting the buildings, not the buildings collapse. this fits nicely with my theory, which is that the administration was more than just incompetent. but incompetent they were. according to my layers of tinfoil, they knew the towers were designed to withstand being hit by jets. they certainly knew it was a possibility, condi's later statements notwithstanding.
now, i think they (buth the neocons and al qaeda) were surprised at the total destruction. like a little kid with a cherry bomb who blows off his own fingers. the neos figured they would take advantage of their "good luck" and go for broke - al qaeda kinda went "o, shit! we're in trouble now!"
then bush really screwed things up in so many ways that al qaeda actually came out ahead.
i'm no expert in engineering, but in logic. if a then b.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:59 pmAnd are you trying to tell me that the little bit of Jet fuel, found its way to the center beam INSTEAD of exploding on impact like many experts say it did. In fact, we all SAW it explode. The plane never made it to the center of the building.
I can't see how the fuel that ALREADY BLEW UP, made its way across the floors and into a shaft and found enough air to dribble 90 stories down, and cover 90 stories of the column in a fire hot enough to weaken that support.
I doubt that a team of engineers could have pumped enough burning jet fuel into the shaft to burn for more than a couple of seconds, even if the plane had been carrying enough jet fuel to blow up, and STILL have enough left to find its way into the shaft and cover 90 stories of steel in a practically airless environment.
Its a stretch I can't make.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:02 pm“The following dramatization…has composite and representative characters and incidents, and time compressions have been used for dramatic purposes.â€
the character representing bill clinton is actually a composite of paul wolfowitz, don rumsfeld and dick cheney. time has been compressed from the period of 1993 - 2001 into the five minutes when the clinton character decides the world is better off with a clear threat like bin laden.
fiction is a wonderful thing.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:03 pmAnd that’s where the steel weakened - at the point of the fire!
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
So now you're saying the fire was only on the 93rd floor and above (which I agree with) and that THAT was enough to cause the buildings center supports to collapse?
So why do we need demolition experts to blow up skyscrapers?
All they have to do is smuggle a few hundred gallons of jet fuel up to the TOP of the building, light a fire, and the ENTIRE THING WILL COLLAPSE.
After all, you are not saying this happened once, but THREE TIMES!.
We are to believe that a fire on the top of the trade centers caused the center support to collapse, not once, BUT TWICE, within minutes of each other, in the exact same way?
And then building number 7 just happened to do the exact same thing, even though it never even got hit?
Gimme a break.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:06 pm"Pull the building"ime has been compressed from the period of 1993 - 2001 into the five minutes when the clinton character decides the world is better off with a clear threat like bin laden.
fiction is a wonderful thing.
And so is reality
"Ya know I dont really care where Osama is" -GWB
September 4th, 2006 at 6:08 pmNo, you people are attacking my professinal opinion as some uneducated belief.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 5:28 pm
I'm not. I totally accept you are an architect. I just don't accept your position.
Than again I am not a professional theologian either, but I disagree with many of the experts on certain facts of the life of Christ. Doesn't mean I'm right or they're wrong, but asserting because I am not trained in the field that my argument is without merit, is incorrect too.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:10 pmWe are to believe that a fire on the top of the trade centers caused the center support to collapse, not once, BUT TWICE, within minutes of each other, in the exact same way?
well, to be fair, the fire did occur at about the same time as a pretty powerful impact.
i wonder what percentage of buildings of that general size and construction which were hit by commercial airliners collapsed, and what percentage have remained standing?
out of intellectual curiosity, you understand.
see, i can easily accept that the administration was complicit in the 9/11 tragedy. i just don't know why they would have brought down #7.
of course, i don't know why that photographer added smoke to burning lebenon either. sometimes its ok to leave horrible enough alone.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:11 pmman am i pissed.
a couple of days ago i was watching tv over here (an extreme rarity), and what do i see? a promo for this very program, advertised as "the true story of the lead-up to september 11. why didn't they catch bin laden?"
as if australians going batshit crazy over the jonbenet ramsay thing wasn't repulsing enough. and of course now we've got crocodile hunter 24/7 also.
television has officially outlasted its usefulness.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:12 pmThe photographer added smoke to burning Lebanon in order to sell the photo.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:14 pmThe photographer added smoke to burning Lebanon in order to sell the photo.
Comment by John Henry Could Hammer
well, sure, but did he try to sell it as is first? did a potential buyer say, 'gee, if there were only a little more destruction in evidence ....'
September 4th, 2006 at 6:19 pm“Watch the movie! Then let’s talk. If you haven’t seen the movie with your very own eyes - don’t castigate the movie out of ignorance.†and “1) This is not a documentary†? Okayyy . . . how about "don't watch this movie - it will increase your ignorance". Why would anyone watch the movie, which is not a documentary, as a conditon of carrying on a critique of it? It’s fiction, as half-admitted, and we don’t need more confusion and lies around national events; we have more than enough of that already. Republicans, and now Cyrus Nowrasteh, assume the public is stupid and can be fed (and will accept as truth) any trash and disinformation they put over the air waves. This is the real depths, and carrying this show to air is a really bad business decision. ABC = not to be trusted; they position faux documentaries to pass as "close enough" to the real thing.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:31 pmThe docudrama only helps to spread misleading data because it is not the full story. A half truth is as bad as a lie.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:36 pmhis should read This.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:40 pmHey I don't have any candle will popsicles suffice??
September 4th, 2006 at 6:41 pmDammit! That pisses me off! I just posted a comment, and it disappeared before my eyes.
I am not Santo, TP, so stop deleting me!
I take my meds everyday, whether I need to or not! And I didn't even use the f-word this time!
September 4th, 2006 at 6:42 pmI could have sworn I saw post numbers up to 333 a second ago,,weird.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:43 pmNOTE: There were two major problems with this thread:
1. Someone was impersonating other users. That person has been banned.
2. There was extensive discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories. This is not allowed on ThinkProgress. If you want to do it, go somewhere else. If people continue to do so, they will be banned.
We need a space where we can have substantive discussions on issues. If you see violations of the rules, please email us immediately.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:43 pmThey must be cleaning up the thread...
September 4th, 2006 at 6:43 pmYou did, TS, it pisses me off. They delete f*cking Santo, but then they delete a lot of commenters who haven't done anything wrong.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:45 pmThere was extensive discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories. This is not allowed on ThinkProgress. If you want to do it, go somewhere else. If people continue to do so, they will be banned.
Comment by Judd — September 4, 2006 @ 6:43 pm
Not allowed?
This is what you call progress?
Perhaps I have overrated this blog.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:48 pmJudd,
If you put up a thread even hinting at 9/11, you're going to get conspiracy people. You must know that. Personally, I don't mind them that much. Santo is another story. I can spot Santo within two or three comments, should one of us email you then, or wait for admin to notice?
September 4th, 2006 at 6:48 pmIf you see violations of the rules, please email us immediately.
Comment by Judd — September 4, 2006 @ 6:43 pm
Wonder who "emailed you" this time?
September 4th, 2006 at 6:48 pmOk guys, I'm history.
I don't consider myself a "conspiracy theorist" just because I don't buy the official story on 911.
I've had all the censoring I can take for one lifetime, so I guess I'll see you folks in the funny papers.
Chow
September 4th, 2006 at 6:51 pmPosts are vanishing now and then. I hope the TP crew is trying to find the cause. Most of the time it hits me, I get the "SPAM" message. That usually occurs when I post a link to radical sites like Sesame Street.com. More recently, it seems to happen with no links but with references to the Easter Bunny.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:51 pmok, let's not talk about it anymore. let's not talk about how we still don't understand the most important event in recent american history, and how the answers are not forthcoming.
let's not talk about taking 411 days to name a commission to investigate the event -- and naming henry kissinger, a man wanted for war crimes, as the head commissioner.
let's not talk about how understanding what happened that day is crucial to understanding how and why we fight the war on terror.
let's not talk about it.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:53 pm#308 - Judd,
September 4th, 2006 at 6:56 pmGo for the juglar!
i'll bet you think you're open-minded, judd.
you're a real visionary. i seem to recall you posting a thread recently that compared 9/11 doubters to michelle malkin. it was a master stroke of passive aggressivism.
it was also very progressive and showed a lot of class, judd. you're my hero.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:57 pmI’ve had all the censoring I can take for one lifetime, so I guess I’ll see you folks in the funny papers.
Comment by WORFEUS
I hope to see you back again, Worfeus. Your comments are valuable to us.
September 4th, 2006 at 6:57 pmPlease boycott the local/national advertisers of this program.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:03 pmDixie (currently post #274) Thanks.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:05 pmI hope to see you back again, Worfeus.
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 6:57 pm
And I hope to see you in a strapless negligee soon.
I'll be around Zooey.
I just have to take the bench for a while. Normally I support TP's ideals, but "forbidden topics" just doesn't sit well with me. Particularly that one.
Somethings wrong with that.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:11 pmI'm curious about casting for this movie, as I don't watch TV much and haven't seen any promos. Did Disney cast Goofey as President Bush? Donald Duck would make a great VP Cheney.
And in cooperation with WB, Elmer Fudd is Donald Rumsfeld, hunting down that wascally wabbit Osama bugs Bunny.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:11 pmHey, Zooey,
See why I said what I said to Judd?
I was probably the first to email TP about the problem; it actually said "BIG PROBLEMS".
He came in and deleted the offensive posts. Bravo! Thank-you!
That should be it. We all go on our merry ways.
But No. (get the wheelbarrow...)
He has to make some stupid "If You Talk About 9-11 in a Way I Don't Like, I'll Ban You."
Gee. Didn't see that in the terms of use!
What's next?
"If You Talk About Ned Lamont and How Lieberman is a D*ick, I'll Ban You." ?
Judd, grow up.
If you don't like monitoring your posts or getting rid of trolls, then don't post. Period.
If you don't like us talking about 9-11, don't post on it.
Simple.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:17 pmAnd by the way Zooey, one more thing.
Doesn't anyone find it just a little odd that Judd came into a thread which is about ABC censoring speech in a blog, because they didn't like it, and censored the thread?
Doesn't it strike anyone as just a little hypocritical to censor bloggers discussion in a thread that is ABOUT censoring bloggers discussion in a thread?
:|
September 4th, 2006 at 7:20 pmUh did anyone ever find that 3 Trillon Dollars that Don Rumsfeld announced was missing from the Pentagon on uh 9/10/01? USA! USA! USA! USA!
September 4th, 2006 at 7:20 pmI hope to see you back again, Worfeus.
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 6:57 pm
And I hope to see you in a strapless negligee soon.
I’ll be around Zooey.
I just have to take the bench for a while. Normally I support TP’s ideals, but “forbidden topics†just doesn’t sit well with me. Particularly that one.
Somethings wrong with that.
Comment by WORFEUS
First of all,....Damn!
Second, then don't take it! Fight for your rights! This is exactly what is happening in America right now!
Don't let Judd take away your right to post your opinions!
September 4th, 2006 at 7:20 pmNormally I support TP’s ideals, but “forbidden topics†just doesn’t sit well with me. Particularly that one.
Somethings wrong with that.
here, here!
seriously, yesterday in the dole thread we had king g talking about how we're all descended from space aliens and there was a nuclear war on earth 10,000 years ago.
completely off-topic, but that stands. i wonder what the neighbors will think?
but this one topic is voodoo. it's as if even asking 'what if our government could do something like that' is so unnerving to tp admin people that they refuse to even talk about it.
but let's face it, they're establishment people. they want to work their way up the ranks. they don't want to know if the establishment is criminal. it might make them feel bad.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:21 pmDo 911 conspiracies include the concerted effort to undertake a minimalist approach to it's investigation?
September 4th, 2006 at 7:21 pmAnother example that the tide has turned? That the propaganda has grown flaccid? Let's hope.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:23 pmDon’t let Judd take away your right to post your opinions!
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 7:20 pm
Its his blog. He can do what he likes with it. I am just a guest here.
But I just don't get the censoring the 911 stuff. Seems like NO one wants to talk about it which makes me think people are AFRAID to talk about it.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:23 pmget lost trueblue. find another blog if you don’t like the rules. you’re a troll in disguise anyway
Comment by get lost neocon — September 4, 2006 @ 7:20 pm
Oh, that's cute. A new troll right away telling my I'm a troll!
You're very stupid, but nice try.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:24 pmDoesn’t it strike anyone as just a little hypocritical to censor bloggers discussion in a thread that is ABOUT censoring bloggers discussion in a thread?
well, if worfeus hasn't struck at the heart of judd's hypocrisy. as i mentioned, the malkin thing was a weak attempt to take a jab, but this exempifies double standard.
what about it judd? i'm sure you have a valid explanation...
September 4th, 2006 at 7:27 pmWell, Worfeus,
September 4th, 2006 at 7:29 pmI suppose we can go to Nico's or Amanda's or Faiz's threads.
They never admonish us like 5 year olds.
Apparently, ABC is no longer interested in hosting a discussion about Path to 9/11.
Posted by Judd at 9:52 am
Yes. And apparently TP is no longer interested in hosting a discussion about the actual events of 911.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:31 pmOooohhhh!
Good One! ;)
Don't worry, Worfeus, I'm saving every post in case something should happen to them.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:34 pmBoycott all advertisers of this farce.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:36 pmAt the end of the day, irrespective of what 'docudramas' show the facts are:
* Clinton was not president at the time, irrespective of what he did or did not do during his presidency.
* Bush was the president at the time, and was given ample warning of a looming threat.
* Bush was the president at the time, charged with being the leader of the nation.
* Bush had the power to prevent the occurance of 9/11 during his Presidency and did not.
Thats all there is to it.
=my2c
BC
September 4th, 2006 at 7:37 pmPosting a thread about a "re-enactment" of 9/11 and forbidding conspiracy talk, is like starting a thread announcing, "Cats' Greatest Enemy-" and not allowing debate on dogs.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:39 pmOver at Hufpo they are calling it the "fake-u-drama" of the year. No doubt it will be straight fiction - not even creative fiction with a decent plot. Blaming the guy before you for YOUR mistakes just isn't going to cut it. It's incredible that ABC would take such a chance at losing their viewers by sponsoring this drivel and continuation of this ridiculous "blame game" and "lack of personal accountability" which this administration engenders. Shame on you,ABC! That's the last time I'll watch your channel....unless I need a good propaganda machine.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:40 pm[...] Update II: Media Matters debunks right wing claims about 9/11 being spread in anticipation of this miniseries. More at Think Progress. Written by Ron ChusidLast 5 posts by Ron ChusidRepublicans Again Trying To Use Fear For Politcal GainKrugman Half Right on Health Care TodayResponding to Holocaust DenialGeorge Bush's Legacy on Nuclear WeaponsRumors About Hillary Clinton [...]
September 4th, 2006 at 7:44 pmSomething else: as I've attempted to post refutations on the right-wing blogs, strangely, a lot of them seem to have shut down their comments.
After registering on several today (6), none have allowed me to actually log in and post Americablog's refutation of this anti-Clinton crap. Has anyone else today had the same experience on winger blogs? The one listed as a pingback up-thread is one such.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:49 pmIMHO, nobody attacked you.
Comment by Juan C — September 4, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
I disagree. They've been at it since I first spoke up several months ago, like I am not entitled to express the holes in the hypotheses. I've been called names, both called and assumed to be a liar, among other things. That's attacking. Not violently, but certainly with some verbal force. And always in groups.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:50 pmsorry if you felt assaulted unbelievable.
however, i don't believe there is a concrete "hypotheses" as you suggest. just a lot of people who think we haven't yet had a full explanation...
and that's all i have to say about it!
September 4th, 2006 at 7:53 pmGimme a break.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 6:06 pm
No, you give me a break. You're spouting a lot of stuff you've heard other people say (the argument NEVER changes from those of you who buy it), and not even trying to understand what I'm telling you.
Where else do you expect the fire to be except the point where the planes crashed? It's why the buildings both failed at those points. It's obvious from the video tape of the their collapse that they began to fail at the points of impact. Sheesh... How is this not obvious to someone so otherwise logical? It's pure logic.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:01 pmJudd said:
2. There was extensive discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories. This is not allowed on ThinkProgress. If you want to do it, go somewhere else.
and then:
We need a space where we can have substantive discussions on issues.
Isnt that just a contradiction?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:02 pmThere still going to Air the "docu-drama", so the rest of the proud and ignorant can be fed. BARF
September 4th, 2006 at 8:03 pmA lot of people don’t buy that the earth is flat either.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 7:57 pm
Thats because its round.
:|
September 4th, 2006 at 8:04 pmbut asserting because I am not trained in the field that my argument is without merit, is incorrect too.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 6:10 pm
I'm asserting an analogy that because you have not gone to medical school and practiced as a heart surgery - your viewpoint on the aspects of heart surgery does not trumph or invalidate that of a practicing heart surgeon. Same thing here.
Religion is just a bunch of make-believe stories. I would never use that as a comparable analogy.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:05 pmOk, I'm just being silly now. I know you meant to say that a lot of people don't buy that the earth is round.
But just like you jumped on me for using beam when I should have said column, (I also say jack when I should say stud), I figured I'd mess with you on that one.
As for calling it your story? I guess I will call it your professional opinion, but I still disagree with it. You can get mad all you want, but I never attacked you, called you any names or implied you were stupid (as you did me). I have read BOTH arguments, from BOTH sides, and for me the jury is still out. Period.
Anyway we have to stop talking about it.
Its VERBOTEN!
September 4th, 2006 at 8:06 pmI meant their...
September 4th, 2006 at 8:07 pmyikes... they're
September 4th, 2006 at 8:08 pmyour viewpoint on the aspects of heart surgery does not trumph or invalidate that of a practicing heart surgeon. Same thing here.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:05 pm
No its not. By your own admission you're NOT a "practicing structural engineer".
You USED to be an architect. Now you teach school. In college you assisted your professor with structural engineering. At least thats what you told us.
So comparing yourself to a practicing structural engineer when you are in reality a high school teacher is bogus. I have spoken with structural engineers who ARE "practicing" and the ones I have spoken to disagree with you.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:09 pmAnyway we have to stop talking about it.
Comment by WORFEUS
Oh, please go on. Its interesting! I have some chips here. But, lets do this: instead of 9/11 we say Roger Rabbit...so Judd wont find out. Now who the hell framed the public opinion about the building that was the house of Roger Rabbit?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:11 pmThank you, Juan!
That is what's got my all pissed!
People posting as others is against use. I emailed as soon asI saw it, and asked if Worfeus had done the same since he kept getting 'trolled.'
When he (Judd) deleted posts and banned said troll, I was going to give him a big,"Yeah! Thank you!" post -
then I see that crap again. (the last time he posted on 9-11, it turned to the same discussion.He tried to stop us from talking about it then, as well... Although he never threatened to ban anyone then.)
Posting what he doesn't want us to talk about related totally to the thread is not covered in the Terms of Use.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:12 pmComment #46 should be removed
September 4th, 2006 at 8:14 pmsorry if you felt assaulted unbelievable.
Oddly, not by the person offering condolences... Thanks Rex, I appreciate that. But the reality is that I do get attacked for having a professional opinion about an area of my career... How surreal from TP posters...
however, i don’t believe there is a concrete “hypotheses†as you suggest. just a lot of people who think we haven’t yet had a full explanation…
It's not about believing. It's about examining the realities of building design and then applying knowns (from experience) to what happened. It's mostly likely that the towers fell due to the events of the day, and nothing more. Occum's Razor...
and that’s all i have to say about it!
Comment by progressaurus rex — September 4, 2006 @ 7:53 pm
Until the next time? :)
September 4th, 2006 at 8:15 pmPosting what he doesn’t want us to talk about related totally to the thread is not covered in the Terms of Use.
Comment by trueblue
I dont understand their fear or their disliking on an issue so important. TripMasterMonkey is always being deleted for posting interesting stuff about this and Israel vs Lebanon conflict. The site should be called: Think Like Judd.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:16 pmA lot of people don’t buy that the earth is NOT flat either.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:17 pmComment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 7:57 pm
I dont understand their fear or their disliking on an issue so important. TripMasterMonkey is always being deleted for posting interesting stuff about this and Israel vs Lebanon conflict. The site should be called: Think Like Judd.
Comment by Juan C —
And Down With Calderon!!! :)
September 4th, 2006 at 8:21 pm(it seems we're the rebels here, Juan!)
You assumed I was lying or misleading about my experience.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
No I didn't.
Not for one second did I even consider you were lying or misleading.
I take everything you tell me at face value.
You have never given me any reason to think you are dishonest.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:24 pm(it seems we’re the rebels here, Juan!)
Comment by trueblue
And the romantics, true. Without that there is not rebelion possible. Yeah, Calderon is another puppet from big companies. But I want him to rule Mexico, so people understand their stupidity. :(
September 4th, 2006 at 8:25 pmNo its not. By your own admission you’re NOT a “practicing structural engineerâ€.
I don't have to be anymore. The fact that I was a practicing building designer with education and experience in both structural engineering and architecture is enough.
You USED to be an architect. Now you teach school. In college you assisted your professor with structural engineering. At least thats what you told us.
No Worfeus. That's not what I said. I worked for a structural engineering firm that designed towers both in college and 3 years after. I'm beginning to get why you can't keep what else I've said today straight. You aren't actually listening to what I'm saying. I think you like arguing too much...
Actually, I still am an architect. I'm just not currently building anything. It doesn't instantly revoke my experience and make me uncredible. I was hired to teach it after all...
So comparing yourself to a practicing structural engineer when you are in reality a high school teacher is bogus.
No, saying that is bogus. Shame on you for insulting teachers. That's really beneath you.
I have spoken with structural engineers who ARE “practicing†and the ones I have spoken to disagree with you.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:09 pm
You said it was one. Now it's several? Well, I know more practicing structural engineers and they disagree with your so-called engineers. Ooooohh... You gonna quote Jebus now?
That's all you've got left? This truly is pointless.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:28 pmA lot of people don’t buy that the earth is NOT flat either.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 7:57 pm
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:17 pm
I knew what you "meant".
Just like you knew what I meant when I said beam when I should've said column.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:28 pmYou said it was one. Now it’s several?
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:28 pm
I "mentioned" the chief structural engineer at the company my brother works for.
I never said he was the ONLY structural engineer I knew.
My father and his brothers were all in construction and I work in a security related field so I am in large buildings all the time and I know plenty of engineers.
Now you're implying I am lying and you're right, this is pointless.
Why can't we just agree to disagree like I said 4 hours ago?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:31 pm*blushing*, Juan!
September 4th, 2006 at 8:31 pmShame on you for insulting teachers. That’s really beneath you.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:28 pm
What?
What are you on drugs?
Just WHERE did I insult teachers?
Tell you what. Why don' t you just tell me to f off, cause its clear thats where you want to go with this.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:34 pmunbelieveable’s constant reassertion of her on bona fides…that is, close to zero.
You can't debate me on merits either so you ad hominem attack? That's mature.
Like you'd know? What gives youthe credentials to judge? I'm guessing that's the real zero here.
Both points are apocryphal and fallacious (appeal to authority). Rather than try to play unbelieveable’s game, we’d be better off dismissing all such appeals., and proceeding on the strength of facts, evidence, and the immutable laws of physics.
No, TMM, I'm not appealing to authority. Madashell posted that list of scholars she listes to. My posts are my own words from my own experience.
It's not just physics or theories. Your lack of familiarity with statics only validates that you can't argue on merits, so you jump in and attack me. How brave.
Of course, Judd has once again lowered the boom on 9/11 conspiracy theory discussions (this time in a 9/11 thread, of all places), so this advice is beside the point, but it still needed to be said.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 4, 2006 @ 8:19 pm
There's a reason he's deleting ya'll point of view and not mine. I'm NOT the one posing conspiracy. Just facts, and then adding them up logically. Try it. Without the insults. I bet you can't.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:34 pmYou mean Ockhams razor? Sir William of Ockham?
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:22 pm
Occum's Razor, yes. The idea that one set of circumstances is enough - you don't need two sets to accomplish the same task.
My view is simplier. Unless you're now saying that the planes were a mirage or Photoshopped in real-time?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:37 pmThere’s a reason he’s deleting ya’ll point of view and not mine.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
Of that we can be sure.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:37 pmOh my, there's quite the rebellion going on here.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:38 pmOccum’s Razor, yes.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:37 pm
No.
Its Ockham's Razor. Sir William of Ockham.
That is the correct spelling of his name. It can also be spelled Occam's Razor, but I've never seen it spelled Occum.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:39 pmJuan C sez:
Thanks for the props, Juan. It's hard to know if you're making an impact or not when your posts dissappear like snowflakes in July.
One interesting thing I've noticed is that posts that discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories aren't all automatically deleted. If said post contains hard information supporting said theories, however, it is deleted almost immediately. Likewise, if a post supporting conspiracy theories contains informative links, it is not long for the thread.
(Intriguing aside...for a while, if any of my posts contained three 'W's in a row, it tripped the spam filter. Makes it kinda hard to back up your arguments if you're not allowed to post links, doesn't it?)
Another interesting thing I've noticed is that posts that oppose conspiracy theories are allowed to stand, no questions asked.
Given this pattern, it doesn't seem that Judd's aim is to prevent discussion of conspiracy theories as much as it is to prevent balanced discussion of said theories...an aim made startlingly clear by his earlier comparison of conspiracy theorists to Michelle Malkin's hateful rantings, and his subsequent quashing of those of us who attempted to defend ourselves from the childish and unwarranted slur.
At the end of the day, the questions have still gone unanswered, and every time Judd makes a move to further his clandestine agenda, he only succeeds in making his agenda less clandestine.
(I wonder how long this post will be allowed to stand...)
September 4th, 2006 at 8:39 pmWhy can’t we just agree to disagree like I said 4 hours ago?
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:31 pm
Because we both have to have the last word? :)
September 4th, 2006 at 8:40 pm*blushing*, Juan!
Comment by trueblue
There is no rebeldy without romanticism. Dont you agree? I mean romance for a change, for a better world...you know ;)
September 4th, 2006 at 8:40 pmMy view is simplier.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:37 pm
Or maybe just simple?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:40 pmBecause we both have to have the last word? :)
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:40 pm
Ok. Thats true.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:41 pmOnce again, if you want physics:
September 4th, 2006 at 8:41 pmhttp://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
I'll give it to you.
You get the last word.
Say your dirties.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:41 pm*blushing*, Juan!
Comment by trueblue
There is no rebeldy without romanticism. Dont you agree? I mean romance for a change, for a better world…you know ;)
Comment by Juan C — September 4, 2006 @ 8:40 pm
100%. I know what you're trying to say, and I agree.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:42 pmTell you what. Why don’ t you just tell me to f off, cause its clear thats where you want to go with this.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
No, I just want you to stop insulting me. I expect it from the trolls. From you it's frustrating because you're not listening to me at all. You're just dismissing what I'm saying without actually considering it.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:42 pmThere is no rebeldy without romanticism. Dont you agree? I mean romance for a change, for a better world…you know ;)
Comment by Juan C
Like V says in V for Vendetta, "What's a revolution without dancing?"
September 4th, 2006 at 8:44 pmFine Occam... See, I told you that you just like to argue.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:44 pmLike V says in V for Vendetta, “What’s a revolution without dancing?â€
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 8:44 pm
V for Vendetta was fantastic! What a great movie.
I never liked Natalie Portman till V came out.
What a great movie.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:47 pmOr maybe just simple?
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:40 pm
Architecture is one of the hardest degrees to earn (only 1% who start the program ever graduate - as opposed to something like 20-30% for the rest of college programs). I've never met a simple architect as a result. So, no, not likely.
More likely that you guys just don't understand because you either don't want to, or you're not hearing me.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:48 pmSorry, Unbelievable,
I have to disagree with you a little bit here.
You are very much on the defensive. It's evident by your posts.
Worfeus just keeps asking questions, and does not want to take your word as law.
That's it.
You want him to say you're right.
He doesn't want to say it.
**Clash**
Just agree to disagree on it, and that's that.
my 2 cents on the arguement.......
Please let's all be friends....
September 4th, 2006 at 8:48 pmHint Unb.
Simple was a joke.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pmahhhem.
The earth is flat. Space is spherical.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pmOnce again, if you want physics:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
Once again - it's Statics. Here's the lay-man version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statics
September 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pmHi Worfeus,
Rather interesting comments above...glad you'e not gone.
I agree, great movie. I want to be Natalie Portman in my next lifetime...even if I have to go around bald.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:50 pmIt’s evident by your posts.
Worfeus just keeps asking questions, and does not want to take your word as law.
That’s it.
You want him to say you’re right.
He doesn’t want to say it.
**Clash**
Just agree to disagree on it, and that’s that.
my 2 cents on the arguement…….
Please let’s all be friends….
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 8:48 pm
She said it right.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:50 pmnow this is what bothers me about this issue -- the contentiousness. c'mon, let's be civil. like we know we can.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:50 pmSay your dirties.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
Have a good evening.
That dirty enough for you?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:51 pmI agree, great movie. I want to be Natalie Portman in my next lifetime…even if I have to go around bald.
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 8:50 pm
Don't say that. Be who you are. Like I said I never liked her BEFORE V.
Sure shes kinda pretty, but she seemed like nothing. Another dumbass Brittany Spears or something. (Hint: I wouldn't touch Brittany with Exley's dick).
Then I saw V and wow. She's got something. Some vision. She took it to the character and that got my attention. I will look to see what she does next.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:53 pmComment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 6:57 pm
And I hope to see you in a strapless negligee soon.
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 7:20 pm
I'll bet that'll be another of Zooey's posts that gets deleted.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:53 pmThat dirty enough for you?
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:51 pm
No.
Try harder.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:53 pmOOps. Sorry. Everyone was friendly once I hit enter.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:54 pmFine Occam… See, I told you that you just like to argue.
Comment by unbelievable —
From Wiki:
Occam's razor (also spelled Ockham's razor and "Okham's Razor")
When is this p*ss fight going to end?
September 4th, 2006 at 8:57 pmI’ll bet that’ll be another of Zooey’s posts that gets deleted.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I haven't used the f-word once today! I am totally innocent...pretty much, anyway...
September 4th, 2006 at 8:58 pmYou're late Barfly.
You just missed it.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:58 pmYou are very much on the defensive. It’s evident by your
posts.
I have five or six people attacking me. That is the defensive position.
Worfeus just keeps asking questions, and does not want to take your word as law.
It's not my word as law that I'm asking him to take. I've given context and facts that he can go study and analyze - but instead of doing that, he's just bombarding me with emails
That’s it. You want him to say you’re right. He doesn’t want to say it. **Clash**
No, I want him to consider what I'm saying. He's not doing that, just insulting me, and that's the issue.
Just agree to disagree on it, and that’s that.
Why?
my 2 cents on the arguement…….
Please let’s all be friends….
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 8:48 pm
I'm not girly. I don't need for everyone to like me. And I have no problems standing up for what I believe in.
It's always a knock to Feminism when I get called out for being assertive and confident by other women who then say NOTHING to the man with whom I'm arguing. I didn't expect that from you true.
Worfeus and I will hold no grudge. We argue sometimes. I'm just trying to explain to him that I'm frustrated because he's dismissing what I'm saying without either hearing me or considering what I'm saying. He's being flip. And from my friends, that is frustrating.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:58 pmunbelieveable sez:
Pointing out your logical fallacies is not a personal attack, unbelieveable. Your attempt to frame it as such and then holler 'ad homenim' is beneath you.
And right back to the appeal to authority. At least you're consistent.
Well, then, by all means, instruct us poor mortals. After all, you are a teacher, right? (Hint: Repeating your credentials over and over and calling us too stupid, ignorant, and/or uneducated does not qualify as 'teaching').
Actually, the 'official version of events' is itself a conspiracy theory, so your claim is invalid.
I have, but Judd deletes my posts whenever they contain corroborating evidence.
I'm not the one being insulting here, unb. Scroll up. If you want to curtail the amount of insults in this thread, your best move would to be to stop typing.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:58 pmI am totally innocent…pretty much, anyway…
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 8:58 pm
Thats easy enough to fix.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:59 pm(Hint: I wouldn’t touch Brittany with Exley’s dick).
Funniest post of the night!!!!!
Comment by trueblue
That is a winner.
Worfeus, Exley owes you...
September 4th, 2006 at 8:59 pmSimple was a joke.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 8:49 pm
Without a :) it sounds serious...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:00 pmAnd I hope to see you in a strapless negligee soon.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:00 pmComment by trueblue
So, after, a lengthy discussion you want to dress WORFEUS with a negligee?
He’s being flip.
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 8:58 pm
Well I didn't want to be a flop.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:02 pmYou keep posting statics as if it was the answer behind all this.
Comment by Juan C — September 4, 2006 @ 8:50 pm
Nope. Just trying to point out that it's a big part of this that keeps getting dismissed.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:03 pmI haven’t used the f-word once today! I am totally innocent…pretty much, anyway…
Comment by Zooey
uumpgh..ugh...uummmpfhhhhh....
BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:04 pmThats easy enough to fix.
Comment by WORFEUS
You seem fairly confident about that...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:05 pmAnd I hope to see you in a strapless negligee soon.
Comment by trueblue
So, after, a lengthy discussion you want to dress WORFEUS with a negligee?
Comment by Juan C
I didn't want to see ANYONE in a negligee, Juan!
Read it again! :)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:06 pmWell, it will require some commitment on your part...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:06 pmuumpgh..ugh…uummmpfhhhhh….
BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
Comment by trueblue
I have used the f-word today? :-)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:07 pmtry again..........
September 4th, 2006 at 9:08 pmThats easy enough to fix.
Comment by WORFEUS
You seem fairly confident about that…
Comment by Zooey —
Well, it will require some commitment on your part…
Comment by WORFEUS
Why do I hear "Barry White" music in the background all of a sudden?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:10 pmWorfeus:
I've been checking in now and then, while making dinner. How about my earlier point? Have you tried to post on any 'winger sites today and been denied access? It's like they've decided to look the other way instead of debating. They've stuck fingers in their collective ears, hoping no one will notice the movie has the same sh*it content as a Halliburger.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:10 pmHint: I wouldn’t touch Brittany with Exley’s dick
Ok, this is where I show how dumb I am. Didnt get it. (I know Brittany and I know Exley...but...)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:11 pmAm I bad? Sorry trueblue, I copied and condensed your post #329. Somehow I missed that you were quoting Worf. So it looked like you wanted to see zooey in a negligee.
mea culpa.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:11 pmPointing out your logical fallacies is not a personal attack, unbelieveable.
But you didn't. You just insulted me. More than once. And you were patronizing. Point out a fact or argument you posted in response to my statements. Can't? Hmmm.
Your attempt to frame it as such and then holler ‘ad homenim’ is beneath you.
I did no such thing. I was having an argument with Worfeus and you insulted me, not my argument. I stand by what i said. You appeared, attacked and offered no evidence to the contrary of the dicussison.
And right back to the appeal to authority. At least you’re consistent.
Right back to dodging the question I see. Wasn't an appeal to authority. Was a request for qualification. You have one?
Well, then, by all means, instruct us poor mortals.
Don't be a jerk. Statics comes right after you've taken two semesters of calculus and two of physics for a reason. You can't teach it in a blog. But, here's a link to an online tutorial that will in several steps:
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/~statics/
After all, you are a teacher, right? (Hint: Repeating your credentials over and over and calling us too stupid, ignorant, and/or uneducated does not qualify as ‘teaching’).
Point to the post where I called anyone stupid. I didn't. Nice strawman. You attacked it pretty well too.
Actually, the ‘official version of events’ is itself a conspiracy theory, so your claim is invalid.
My claim is NOT the Official Version - which I've said about a billion times. Stop trying to make links that don't exist. My version is my own - based on my experience. How coincidental that it is in agreement with many respected structural engineers and architects in practice...
I have, but Judd deletes my posts whenever they contain corroborating evidence.
Why do you think that is? Because it's not rational.
I’m not the one being insulting here, unb. Scroll up. If you want to curtail the amount of insults in this thread, your best move would to be to stop typing.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 4, 2006 @ 8:58 pm
You scroll up. You insulted me. I just responded.
Yeah, I'm gonna do what you said. You started with the insults, and as we all apparently seem to understand here, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You take your own advice and go first.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:13 pmAhhhhhhhhhhh.......
Katrina hype came and went without notice. Now comes the issue Americans REALLY care about - security. The ugly truth is, while Clinton ignore the first bombing of the WTC, the bombing of two embassies and the bombing of the USS Cole, only to lob a few Tomahawks at an empty training camp in Afghanistan while hiding behind Monica's skirt, Al Quieda was becoming more and more emboldened.
Dems are SCARED TO DEATH to look week on terror, so they will do ANYTHING to squelch all the documentaries to be seen on 9/11.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:14 pmBriseadh na Faire:
I love Zooey,... but not like that! ;)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:14 pmtry again……….
Comment by trueblue
Oh...the innocent thing.
Ok, what I meant to say, in order for everyone to understand completely, is that I am a delicate flower of womanhood; in my real life I never, never use naughty curse words (I only use the ones trueblue taught me here); and I only wear flannel jammies in ugly colors (how does one keep a strapless negligee on anyway?). In fact, I really have no idea what anyone is talking about here...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:15 pmwhatever, hintler,
September 4th, 2006 at 9:17 pmget back to cheerleading for 'operation enduring failure'.
So it looked like you wanted to see zooey in a negligee.
mea culpa.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
As if you didn't actually enjoy that...
Oops! (Remember, Zooey, innocent....innocent....)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:17 pmplease let it go for tonight, UnB.
We love you.
We respect you.
This is a no-win situation.
Let's end the night as friends, please?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:18 pmWell, it will require some commitment on your part…
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 9:06 pm
Your favorite subject again... :)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:18 pmSo it looked like you wanted to see zooey in a negligee.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:18 pmmea culpa.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I will request the same thing you said before, Briseadh, that people here (say True and Zoo) start posting links to support their comments...so, it was a negligee involved, wheres the link? :)
#426, prog rex,
Isn't your name and oxymoron - there are no "powerful" figures among progressives, just a bunch of well coordinated sheep.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:18 pmGOP propaganda …Blame Clinton . Karl Rove thinks americans are stupid.
Comment by Carlos Roba Votos — September 4, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
...and he's so right. Look who's in the White House.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:19 pmWhy do I hear “Barry White†music in the background all of a sudden?
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
No, listen closer. Thats Tony Bennett.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:19 pmI love Zooey,… but not like that! ;)
Comment by trueblue
ahhh...less competition for me! ;-)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:19 pmLet’s end the night as friends, please?
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 9:18 pm
This is the part that frustrated me true - Why do I alone own this? Why not Unbelievable and Worfeus? It takes two to tango... Why is Worfeus entitled to his opinon, but I'm supposed to apologize for mine? Don't ask for that. That's not fair.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:21 pmWe love you.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:21 pmWe respect you.
This is a no-win situation.
Let’s end the night as friends, please?
Comment by trueblue
You really are the best. After, Zoo, of course. :)
Jason acts just like MA when ignored... How funny.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:22 pmComment by Juan C — September 4, 2006 @ 9:18
Worf (and I say that in brotherly affection) wanted to see Zooey in a strapless negligee. If she did post a link, Judd deleted it post haste.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:23 pmso, it was a negligee involved, wheres the link? :)
Comment by Juan C
Hey, I didn't start that! That's Worfeus' mind...
Besides, any links we post keep getting swallowed up by the spam filter. What's a girl to do...?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:24 pmUnB,
You are just as entitled to your opinion.
Please don't think anything else.
You are a brilliant woman, and you know I like you.
I'm just asking that both sides do the truce thing tonight, OK?
We can fight the good fight tomorrow.
:)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:24 pmWho wants to wager that 9/11 WON'T be pre-empted by Jon-Benet or Steve Irwin type stories like Katrina coverage did?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:25 pmahhh…less competition for me! ;-)
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Are you delerious, my dear?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:26 pmtry again……….
Comment by trueblue
Oh…the innocent thing.
Ok, what I meant to say, in order for everyone to understand completely, is that I am a delicate flower of womanhood; in my real life I never, never use naughty curse words (I only use the ones trueblue taught me here); and I only wear flannel jammies in ugly colors (how does one keep a strapless negligee on anyway?). In fact, I really have no idea what anyone is talking about here…
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
And you want cyber world to buy that?
We know you here!
Re: strapless issue.... If I remember correctly from another post, you have ample support for a strapless!!!
;) ;) ;)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:29 pmOk, this is where I show how dumb I am. Didnt get it. (I know Brittany and I know Exley…but…)
Comment by Juan C — September 4, 2006 @ 9:11 pm
Allow me to elaborate.
Brittany is a herpes infested cumguzzling gutter whore.
Exley? Well lets just say he's not on my Christmas card list.
So my statement to be accurately interpreted indicates that although Brittany is considered to be boinkworthy if based on a sampling of average hetero-males in the US, I would not even bother to dismember Exley to use his phallus as a stimulating device to apply as a sexual aid in an attempt to copulate via proxy.
Is that a little clearer?
;)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:30 pmI’m just asking that both sides do the truce thing tonight, OK?
That happened about 15 minutes ago, I think. But if someone insults me, I'm gonna respond. You guys should know that about me by now. I don't take much seriously, but when the people on my side are dismissive of my posts, or insulting, I'm not going to run away.
We can fight the good fight tomorrow.
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 9:24 pm
Aw, come one, no time like the present. :)
I should go anyway, there's never enough planning to do. Starting a new program in a new school is seriously hard work - all the time - even on weekends.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:30 pmYou really are the best. After, Zoo, of course. :)
Comment by Juan C
Of course, Juan!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:31 pmI know my pecking order in this world!!!!
Is that a little clearer?
;)
Comment by WORFEUS
Ahhhhhh, I'm not the only one getting deleted today...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:32 pm:)
Brittany is a herpes infested cumguzzling gutter whore.
Comment by WORFEUS — September 4, 2006 @ 9:30 pm
So you have a crush on her then?
Well, this one is definitely getting deleted and we're all getting banned...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:33 pmIs that a little clearer?
;)
Comment by WORFEUS
I am laughing so hard...damn...wait til I catch my breath.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:33 pmAh yes, and delicate flowers of womanhood are made to be plucked, gently and tenderly, and their frangrance and beauty savored for a moment, a lifetime.
you are too modest. Did you not coin the phrase "dum cumpster?" (sp)
One doesn't. Not for long at least. That's the whole point!
Stop wearing flannel jammies.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:33 pmNow comes the issue Americans REALLY care about - security.
So Jason, if that's true, how are republicans going to distance themselves sufficiently from the President's policies (as has been widely reported on newssites of all political persuasions) to "localize" the individual elections, and still get any momentum from the "security issue?" Aren't they cutting their own throats politically by distancing themselves from the issue "Americans REALLY care about?"
The ugly truth is, while Clinton ignore the first bombing of the WTC, the bombing of two embassies and the bombing of the USS Cole, only to lob a few Tomahawks at an empty training camp in Afghanistan while hiding behind Monica’s skirt, Al Quieda was becoming more and more emboldened.
Go to AmericaBlog, they have a refutation for your weak spin.
Dems are SCARED TO DEATH to look week on terror, so they will do ANYTHING to squelch all the documentaries to be seen on 9/11.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 4, 2006 @ 9:
Keep repeating that mantra; it will have to comfort you on your trip BACK to the political wilderness.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:33 pmJuan just wants another hug.
(((Hug!)))
September 4th, 2006 at 9:33 pmI am a delicate flower of womanhood
Comment by trueblue — September 4, 2006 @ 9:29 pm
:o
September 4th, 2006 at 9:34 pmI wish I could let myself, but I'm gonna leave that one alone.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:35 pmAgain!
Not me!!!
Zooey is the one saying these things!!!!
I'm not a delicate anything!!!
Look back, Worfeus! It's Zooey you want!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:36 pmhow does one keep a strapless negligee on anyway?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — September 4, 2006 @ 9:33 pm
Mammeries.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:37 pmI'm not copying anything else you say, Zooey, cause somehow it gets attributed to me!!!!
You have some evil mojo over me or something!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:37 pmTrueblue, this time it's not my fault!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:37 pmMammeries.
Comment by WORFEUS
Ha ha ha...stop...please.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:39 pmOh sorry True. Don't know quite how that happened.
But since you're there and all.....
September 4th, 2006 at 9:39 pmWorf, watch the cutting and pasting! Now it looks like I'm asking how to keep a strapless negligee on!
But yes, we should all give Thanks for the Mammeries.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:41 pmYou have some evil mojo over me or something!
Comment by trueblue
Now thats a nice thought. ;)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:41 pm(Was that too much? Im sorry, you never know)
I just sent an email to ABC requesting a list of sponsers for the show. With television, it's always an option to go direct to the money source. Maybe some of you would like to do the same thing.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:41 pmSo you have a crush on her then?
Comment by unbelievable — September 4, 2006 @ 9:33 pm
I'll make the jokes around here lady....
September 4th, 2006 at 9:41 pmDems are SCARED TO DEATH to look week on terror, so they will do ANYTHING to squelch all the documentaries to be seen on 9/11.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 4, 2006 @ 9:14 pm
Hey $ick weed--Happened on GWB's watch. He has not found him or punished anyone involed in it.9/11 happened under GWB and both houses under Rethug control--Includes FBI,CIA DIA..The whole shabang under rethugs. Your a sick nasty old fart arent you? There is a thing called reality you should get in touch with it--my little Clintonhatebot. You know slappy you need a new moronic view of the world.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:42 pmAh yes, and delicate flowers of womanhood are made to be plucked, gently and tenderly, and their frangrance and beauty savored for a moment, a lifetime.
You are delerious. Ok...
you are too modest. Did you not coin the phrase “dum cumpster?†(sp)
Something like that. :)
What's the matter? Too chicken to start getting deleted?
Stop wearing flannel jammies.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Who wears jammies anyway...?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:42 pmMaybe some of you would like to do the same thing.
Comment by webrat — September 4, 2006 @ 9:41 pm
Naahh.. We do to much already.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:42 pmWell everyone, enjoy what's left of "robota" day. Luckily for me the bar's within walking distance . . . Cheers all!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:43 pmWhy does Hendler even comment anymore? Does he like seeing all of his pretty words on his screen or does he actually expect anybody to respond to his crap?
On the 9-11 conspiracy theories I do have a problem with censorship but if Judd didn't have that policy every damned thread would be hijacked instantly. Then again he does let the AIPAC is all-powerful BS go on. I am torn.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:45 pmDems are SCARED TO DEATH to look week on terror.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 4, 2006 @ 9:
Who are you calling "WEEK"?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:47 pmCalling us weak is one thing, but I'll be golldurned if I'm gonna sit here and let him call us "week".
Who does he think he is anyway...
:\
September 4th, 2006 at 9:48 pmwebrat,
Went to ABC the first time this story was posted on TP.
Lodged my complaint.
I don't know what else they hope to accomplish without an email link to the comment section of ABC. (first provided by a poster in the last post about this topic.)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:48 pmWho wears jammies anyway…?
Comment by Zooey
You said you did! In ugly colors. And I went through the trouble of getting this mental image of a delicate flower of womanhood all decked out in orange and yellow and fuschia flannel jammies.
Now I gotta start all over again and get a whole new picture of a delicate flower of womanhood, this time without the flannel jammies. sheeesh!
September 4th, 2006 at 9:49 pmWho are you calling “WEEK�
Comment by WORFEUS
Them's fightin' words!
Oh god, my stomach hurts, I'm laughing too much.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:50 pmNow I gotta start all over again and get a whole new picture of a delicate flower of womanhood, this time without the flannel jammies. sheeesh!
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Sorry, but keep trying...
September 4th, 2006 at 9:52 pm(((Hug!)))
Comment by Zooey
Ohhh. Missed that. Harder, please... :)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:57 pmDems are SCARED TO DEATH to look week on terror.
besides not having a point at all (if you consider the opposite: that dems could be 'pleased as punch' to look weak on terror...), this certainly doesn't stick with the 'appeasement' talking point.
get with the program, hintler! you "well coordinated sheep" are supposed to be calling us appeasers and terrorist lovers, not acknowledging the truth that democrats are trying to improve their anti-terrorism cred.
what is the world coming to?
September 4th, 2006 at 9:58 pmI am not into conspirance theory. I simply want to know why the the United States Air force with mach 2+ (That's about 1450 mph) jets was unable to intercept aircraft with a max speed of mach 4/5 (that's mach .8 or 580 MPH) from airbases 400 miles from the targets during a period that ranged from32 minutes to 1 hour and 7 minutes. If that is the state of our defenses, we'll all be charcoal (With some calcium residue.) should the Vatican ever gets pissed and attacks us with the Swiss Guard in hang gliders totng Isreali nukes.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:58 pmSo, I will ask again. And I want a straight answer. Why did the towers fall? :)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:59 pmProg Rex & Walt,
Jeebus! There was a certain vibe going here, and you just ruined it by being on topic. :(
September 4th, 2006 at 10:00 pmJuan,
It's probably best not to ask that tonight.
I'll email you some links for research. (well, I already posted one or two...)
So, a parallel gvt., huh?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:02 pmHow's that going to go over?
Walt, I agree that there are some strange things that happened that day...and before. Not the least why Ashcroft and Pentagon officials stopped flying commercial. But hijacking every thread is ridiculous and self-defeating (not saying you do this at all). I think light needs to be shed on 911 but I understand why Judd does what he does. There has been way too much abuse on the issue.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:02 pmWow! the whole gang is here....Coulden't wade through all the fun but caught a little of it.....It just keep's getting better...Strapless teddies are great for a moment but all natural is the best..Never entertain in Flannell it's to grand motherly...LOL.
A special note for the Jason guy...Yo Jason, I was surfing all the new's chanells today and they were all saying the same thing.....The Dem's are ahead in the polls 2 to 1.....The public is pissed off at this administration and they want big changes. Yep! their sick of the war's, gas prices, the way the rep's have been running the country into the ground, job's and lack of security..They aren't buying the bull shit Jason.
Now I don't know how that will translate on our winning enough to do any good to setting thing's right but it's a good start....Oh and by the way I have already sent all my emails to the station managers and demanded equal time for Ferenheit 9/11 and the new one I heard about called The killing of the president. I plan to watch, so I can bitch....Providing I'm not doing something more interesting.....Blessings..Peace
September 4th, 2006 at 10:03 pmOk, I'm compiling a list of ABC national advertisers who advertise on prime time ABC tv.
I just saw a Wendy's hamburger commercial. By the way Wendys appears a notorious GOP contributor and only gives to the GOP. Call them and tell them not to sponsor the path to 9-11 and also tell them you also will continue to boycott them until their CEO gets congress to pass an unamended law to raise the minimum wage to TEN dollars an hour and repela Medicare Part D, repeal the Medicare Part B means test, and set up an 80 percent coverage prescription drug benefit in Medicare Part B.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:04 pm#477, progrex,
Both are true, as Dems like to have everything both ways -
Dems say:
let's look strong, but not fight
let's look generous, but at someone else's expense
let's look smart, but appeal to the ignorant masses
When you try to be everything, you end up being nothing.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:06 pmwhat about the pentagon, walt?
there's andrews afb about ten miles from there, the pentagon wasn't hit until about 1 1/2 hours after the first hijacking was reported, and there wasn't a single fighter jet scrambled to protect our most vital military asset in the country?
hang gliders my ass... a freak on a unicycle could've gotten there in an hour and a half...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:06 pmsorry, zooey...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:08 pmback to digital hugs and negligee...
When you try to be everything, you end up being nothing.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
I guess you'd know all about that.
Shut your pie hole, Jason.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:09 pm#483, Sharon share alike,
Hold those polls close and hug them, as the Dems have in every election since 1994. Bottom line, while the public may have an "unpopular" or "disapproval" opinion of the current President and Congress, Democrats have not laid out an agenda that the voters would consider a better alternative.
I can only hope that Jimmy Carter stays in the news to put the fear of God in the voters hearts that he or Dukakis or some other Democratic coward weasels their way back into power.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:10 pmoperation enduring failure, jason.
operation enduring failure.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:11 pmsorry, zooey…
back to digital hugs and negligee…
Comment by progressaurus rex
Oh no, it's all ruined now. Thanks.
This guilt-inducing moment brought to you by the letters B-I-T-C-H. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:11 pmWow Hendler, you just described the Republicans.
"let’s look strong, but not fight"
Do I need to explain it chickenhawk?
"let’s look generous, but at someone else’s expense"
Tax cuts...for the rich (saying it is for everybody)...while real wages for the working class go down for the fifth straight year.
"let’s look smart, but appeal to the ignorant masses"
WMD, 911, WMD, 911, WMD 911. Yeah, Bush appeals to the educated alright.
I agree that Dems try to be everything. But the Rethugs succeed at being nothing without even trying.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:12 pmProgressaurus rex,
Don't forget Otis AFB.
Bourne, MA.
If you look on a map, it's real close to NYC. (For a fighter jet.)
9-11-2001: nothing.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:13 pmSharon share alike
...
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Stop. It. Jason.
Sharon has never done anything to you.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:13 pm"Strapless teddies are great for a moment but all natural is the best..Never entertain in Flannell it’s to grand motherly…LOL."
Wow, I must calm down!! Strapless teddies are good until it is time to be all natural .
Being in Wisconsin, sometimes flannel is necessary.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:14 pmWalt,
I remember following the TV news on 9/11 - hearing that our jets were scrambled, and then shortly later hearing that the last remaining airliner headed towards DC "crashed". It reminded me of the outbound TWA flight from NY that "exploded", when Salinger pointed out the unmistakeable radar evidence of a surface to air missle intercepting the plane.
It would not surprise me at all that terrorists had already blown up one of our planes, nor would it surprise me if our jets shot down the airliner before it got to DC.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:14 pm(((Hug!)))
Comment by Zooey
Ohhh. Missed that. Harder, please… :)
Comment by Juan C — September 4, 2006 @ 9:57 pm
"...that's what the old lady said to the sailor!"
Old saying. What can I say? I hung out with old people...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:15 pmzooey, are you calling me a bitch?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:16 pmput the fear of God
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 4, 2006 @ 10:10 pm
Just like we were saying about a person's god matching their own personality... Jason's god is most certainly Dick Cheney or Charlie Mason... I'm torn as to which is more criminal. Probably Cheney. Manson killed fewer people.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:18 pmChrist Hendler, what talking head do you get your info from? Tell me how fast the jets were scrambled and then tell me how fast they are SUPPOSED to be scrambled.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:18 pmSeptember 4th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
#488, zooooooo,
I needn't recite my list of achievements, it is oft repeated on this site. I certainly never tried to be everything - just the only thing.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:21 pmzooey, are you calling me a bitch?
Comment by progressaurus rex
No! I'm calling me a bitch -- for trying to make you feel guilty for getting back on topic.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. If I ever call you a name, I will say it right out, ok?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:21 pmyea i know i was joking! it's ok...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:22 pm#486 - progressaurus rex.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:23 pmDid you mean a mo-ped. Balancing a ten kiloton nuke on a unicycle takes considerable talent. They weigh about 500 pounds without the tritium and deuterium boosters (Read H-Bomb, for those who would like a real party.).
#499, unbee,
You know my hero is Ronald Reagan - that should have been obvious.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:23 pmI certainly never tried to be everything - just the only thing.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Too bad you didn't succeed.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:24 pmI needn’t recite my list of achievements
yes, three time winner of the "golden cracker" award for most effective parroting of administration talking points.
also, voted "most likely to 'get with' rove" by his fellow 101st fighting keyboard commandos. and that's every right-wing troll's dream...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:25 pmWorfeus is a poet... :)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:25 pmYou no it.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:26 pmahh, yes, ronald reagan -- he of the saddam appeasement and the jump-starter of the fundamentalist islamic regime in afghanistan.
that's one great hero to have.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:26 pmLol. too bad he can't spell.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:27 pmYou know my hero is Ronald Reagan - that should have been obvious.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 4, 2006 @ 10:23 pm
Did he go to Stanford "Ivy League" University too?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:27 pmOld saying. What can I say? I hung out with old people…
Comment by trueblue
You can say whatever you want. ;)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:27 pmI certainly never tried to be everything - just the only thing.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Too bad you didn’t succeed.
Comment by Zooey
HA!!!
Too Good, Zooey!
Props!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:27 pmand ronald reagan, he of the largest single tax hike in american history. (and possibly world history). it's the gift that keeps on giving.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:28 pmOh, jeez rex, I hope you didn't mean what I thought you meant about the cracker. When I was a kid there was a rumor about the "cracker game" where winning wasn't exactly winning and "Golden" would be very appropriate.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:28 pmOnce again, Juan, you honor me.
You are sweet.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:29 pmWorf & unbelievable making up. So f*cking sweet! Brings a tear to my eye...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:30 pmwell, you'll have to ask jason about that, jpark. i'm not in the contest, fortunately!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:30 pm#516 Don't be so hard on Ronnie. He had to raise taxes after his disasterous tax cuts. At least he had the balls to raise them again (Actually, I believe he raised taxes 8 times) after the tax cuts didn't have the intended consequences (why he thought they would I will never know). Bush would never admit that his cuts were a mistake no matter how much it hurt the country.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:31 pmLet's not forget Ronnie Ray-gun who kicked all the mentally ill people out of the "Sanitorums" (mispelling intentional) to increase our homeless population substantially... What a sympathetic guy. Just like Jason.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:31 pmicx-ney, ooey-zay!!!!!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:33 pm#507, zoooooooo,
Actually, I did succeed, but then I realized that my creations just served competing interests, so I stopped. Why create new technologies, when overseas economies reap the rewards? If unions hadn't destroyed our manufacturing sector, then Americans could reap the rewards of my work.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:33 pm#520 Heh, I have a feeling he wouldn't win that game. He seems to have an irrational hatred toward women so I am guessing he isn't very...um...satisfying for the women.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:33 pmWorf & unbelievable making up. So f*cking sweet! Brings a tear to my eye…
Comment by Zooey
Thought you said making out... :)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:33 pmronnie's tax hikes still affect us.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:34 pmone of the things he did was take away the deduction for interest charged on credit cards (yes, you used to be allowed to deduct that) -- this means the tax hike is still functional and accruing every year. it's now in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
Worf & unbelievable making up. So f*cking sweet! Brings a tear to my eye…
Comment by Zooey — September 4, 2006 @ 10:30 pm
We never weren't. We're just not into the sugar-coated, G-rated, Bambi and Thumper version...
Later ya'll, I need to hit the hay.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:35 pm#522, unbee,
I thought you were smarter than that. It was the 1965 Civil Rights legislation that prevented institutions from holding people against their will, creating our enormous homeless problem. What on Earth could Ronald Reagan possibly have to do with that?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:35 pmAdvertisers I see on ABC as of right now.
Since we do not yet have the names of the companies that will advertise on the REPUBLIKLAN party propaganda piece "Path to 9-11" use this message to compile a list of national ABC advertisers you see who advertise on ABC network programming from 8pm to 11pm in your time Zone.
The first potential advertiser of this movie:
I just saw a Wendy’s hamburger commercial. By the way Wendys appears a notorious GOP contributor and only gives to the GOP. Call them and tell them not to sponsor the path to 9-11 and also tell them you also will continue to boycott them until their CEO gets congress to pass an unamended law to raise the minimum wage to TEN dollars an hour and repela Medicare Part D, repeal the Medicare Part B means test, and set up an 80 percent coverage prescription drug benefit in Medicare Part B.
More national advertisers.
Makers of Febreze.
Lowe's hardware stores.
Edy's Ice Cream.
Makers of Gatorade.
Makers of Secret Deoderant.
Mitsubishi Motors.
Weight Watchers.
JOIN THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA http://www.dmocrats.org
September 4th, 2006 at 10:35 pmicx-ney, ooey-zay!!!!!
Comment by trueblue
I didn't know you were bilingual, true. No wonder Juan likes you. :)
Thought you said making out… :)
Comment by Juan C
Whichever....Just give it time, Worf is one smooth guy.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:37 pmSoooo...tax cuts are good Hendler? I mean, if they didn't negatively affect us they are at worst affect neutral, right?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:37 pmErr, I mean tax hikes.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:39 pmWhy create new technologies, when overseas economies reap the rewards?
so, you are a selfish republican xenophobe. that's got to be about one of the most stupid things i've ever heard.
keep blaming those unions, by the way. it certainly makes more sense to blame hard-working americans for wanting to keep their benefits and standard-of-living than some schmuck ceo sitting behind a desk, doing little or no real work and getting a multi-million dollar contract, shares, options, full benefits and, of course, the key to the executive washroom. makes total sense.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:40 pmYou know my hero is Ronald Reagan - that should have been obvious.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Umm He did make a gay porno film, you know those hollywood types...
September 4th, 2006 at 10:41 pmNo wonder Juan likes you. :)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:41 pmmmm...eemmm...gee...where did I put the mmm... the thing...of the...with the...thing...and the...
Whichever….Just give it time, Worf is one smooth guy.
Comment by Zooey
I guess you'd know...........
;)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:42 pmactually, hintler, unbelievable is absolutely correct in 522. i have a relative who was directly affected, and ended up homeless in the 1980s because of what reagan did.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:42 pm**please don't hurt me!**
September 4th, 2006 at 10:42 pm#532, jpark,
You will have to refer to my posts describing how the government uses all its various policies to "create" markets (not own or control them) in which business and individuals can flourish. The government does not create jobs, they create the conditions in which wealth can be created by businesses and individuals. Tax cuts, land/resource grants, security, law enforcement - all contribute to creating markets. When these policies are coordinated and targeted, then the whole country prospers (railroads, TVA, etc.)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:43 pmmmm…eemmm…gee…where did I put the mmm… the thing…of the…with the…thing…and the…
Comment by Juan C
Heh.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:44 pmIf they proved that deficits dont matter them why would tax cuts matter?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:45 pmYeah, Hendler, your trickle-down economy has certainly thrived. Would that Bush or Reagan were president in 1930.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:47 pm#534, progrex,
If individual want good salaries and benefits, then they need to increase their productivity to justify those gains, but you would rather use "collective baraining" to extort those things.
As a former exec, I can tell you that I created wealth for the company in which I worked, and the responsibilities held by execs outweigh any responsibilities a union worker hold. If all jobs paid the same, everyone would ride in the wagon, instead of being out front pulling the "load".
September 4th, 2006 at 10:48 pmNo wonder Juan likes you. :)
mmm…eemmm…gee…where did I put the mmm… the thing…of the…with the…thing…and the…
Comment by Juan C
Back at 'ya, Cutie!
;)
September 4th, 2006 at 10:48 pmThe government does not create jobs, they create the conditions in which wealth can be created by businesses and individuals.
Sure they create jobs..some Indians pay off lobbyists to get the Government to put in high speed communications, then the government pays for it, you and me, and then some friend of a lobbyist gets the contract and hires illegal aliens to install the cable..The Reservation gets cheap cable, the Senator gets 'gifts and girls' and the lobbyist calls them names and pockets his share. Kinda like Delay and the Mariannas...
Not to mention Sen bridge to nowhere Stevens and his son err business err Individual err VECO..
September 4th, 2006 at 10:50 pmA 12th lawmaker, Senate President Ben Stevens, the son of US Sen Ted Stevens, was also noted in the article as receiving generous consulting fees from VECO. ...
http://www.adn.com/news/government/story/8144643p-8038526c.html
Yeh thats the ticket!!
September 4th, 2006 at 10:52 pm#546, Trin,
The government is using tax money to pay for all that, so it is the taxpayer who created those "jobs".
September 4th, 2006 at 10:52 pmThe government is using tax money to pay for all that, so it is the taxpayer who created those “jobsâ€.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Un huh yeh sure right I'm buying that..
September 4th, 2006 at 10:53 pm#538 Reagan did his best to destroy my family. My father died in 1980. Ok, that is a tragedy. But my mom, who had no marketable skills but a fine mind, decided to go to school. Great. Then Reagan cut survivors' benefits and student aid. I can't imagine how my mom made it. I remember a lot of mac and cheese. Now, she is close to retirement age (of course, since psychotherapists don't actually work hard they don't get a whole lot of money so who knows if she will be able to retire), is a productive member of society who has paid taxes at a higher rate than would have been possible without SS. Republicans just don't understand social investment. Morons.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:53 pmThe government does not create jobs, they create the conditions in which wealth can be created by businesses and individuals. Tax cuts, land/resource grants, security, law enforcement - all contribute to creating markets. When these policies are coordinated and targeted, then the whole country prospers (railroads, TVA, etc.)
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Probably in Jasonland. Here in Planet Earth, wealth is produced by (I have to repeat myself) workers exploitation. Everytime you drink soda from a can made of tin, a miner loses his lungs in a Bolivian mine from silicosis. What that miner is paid in comparison with what that company makes out of his labor is a almost nothing. The same examples are with the zinc, coffee, copper, guano, etc. Welcome to the real world, Jason.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:54 pmThe government does not create wealth, they just provide the conditions to create wealth, using taxes on existing wealth and wealth creation - it really is that simple.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:55 pm#544 Are you paying attention at all to the economy??? Production...increasing. Real wages...decreasing. Do you see a problem with that?
September 4th, 2006 at 10:55 pmIt was the 1965 Civil Rights legislation that prevented institutions from holding people against their will, creating our enormous homeless problem. What on Earth could Ronald Reagan possibly have to do with that?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 4, 2006 @ 10:35 pm
Jason you have always been a dumb $hit but, that one takes the cake--Your not only a clintonhatebot but, my little prevert--Stupid!! Give it a rest-it is over for you.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:57 pm#553, jpark,
Do you mean productivity or production? Either way, can you define what that metric is? Chances are, productivity may be up, as baby-boomer leave the work force, since they are the worst generation of Americans, having followed the best generation of Americans who fought WWII.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:57 pmExcuse me, productivity, not production (though I would guess that is too).
September 4th, 2006 at 10:57 pm#556, jpark,
Actually, productivity would only increase if American companies outsourced production overseas, as union workers are very UNproductive.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:59 pmLOL, the worst generation. K. They have a productivity of 2 1/2 times higher than the 1940's adults.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:59 pmBook: Bush told reporter Jews are 'all going to hell'
Larisa Alexandrovna
Published: Saturday September 2, 20
==
Damn now bush is an Anti-Semite? Sheesh...whats next Savid Duke for press secretary??
==
Drudge
Bush: Oil nations 'simply don't like us'
Says tax cuts and 'safe, clean, renewable' nuclear power create good jobs.
[Unless your in Iran where safe clean powerplant will create war]
Dear God,please save us all from this bumbling bubble boob boy
September 4th, 2006 at 10:59 pmAs a former exec, I can tell you that I created wealth for the company in which I worked, and the responsibilities held by execs outweigh any responsibilities a union worker hold.
i was talking about hard work, jason, not responsibilities. and job risk. and job security. do union workers get golden parachutes? no. does the worker create wealth for a company also? yes. does the amount of "responsibility" that a ceo takes on outweigh the "responsibilities" of a union worker by a factor of almost 300X, which is the difference between average worker pay and average executive pay in america? absolutely not.
quit acting like the ceo's life is such a tragedy, because clearly it's not. love those big crocodile tears you're crying there, hintler.
If all jobs paid the same, everyone would ride in the wagon, instead of being out front pulling the “loadâ€.
all i'm talking about is this:
executive pay jumped 571 percent between 1990 and 2000
worker pay grew 37 percent
so get out of here with your ceo sob story.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:00 pmThank's for sticking up for me Zooey, but you realy don't need to...I usualy pass over all of Jasons posts along with the rest of the troll's, but was scanning all of them tonight...
Note, I find all republican men to be like carl rove, ugly,fat, bloated faces, no neck's and lacking social graces..Few have good conversational skills with a lady and so have never gotten more than a first date or five minutes of my time...Let me not forget they are have a simaler attitude they believe they are god's gift to women..LOL..Democratic men are far superior in all areas.. Case in point..the last line in Jason's post...."I certainly never tried to be everything- just the only thing".......Now that 's exactley what I mean about Republican men...Ya go to a buffette and all there is, is jello. Try to nail that to a tree... Demacratic men can do it all with flair and grace and can carry on a good conversation about thing's other than them selves...Republican men are dud's.....Blessings.... Peace..
September 4th, 2006 at 11:00 pm#557 What planet do you live on? Productivitly has increased by 3 times since the big war. Yet wages, in real terms, are lower. Blaming unions is pure crap. It is your Republican masters who pay people overseas pennies on the dollar to make garbage that nobody will be able to afford soon. The free market. What a wonderful thing.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:02 pmI guess Worfeus and UnB are really making things up...
September 4th, 2006 at 11:02 pm:)
Actually, productivity would only increase if American companies outsourced production overseas, as union workers are very UNproductive.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Jason have you ever worked in a Union?
I have, for 5 years, As a Certified repair tech with Braniff Airlines. I can assure you that I did more actual work in one day than 10 of my bosses put together...Sure we had our share of lazy asses, but even they produced more 'Product' than manage ment ever did.
That is management does not create profit, the workers do.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:03 pmA manager simply cannot work on aircraft, ergo he cannot produce any income or profit for the Airline. They are dead weight.
#562, jpark,
American execs have NO choice. With union workers willing to strike, or slow roll or sabotage production, the only way execs can faithfully serve our customers is to turn to overseas production facilities that we can count on.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:04 pmJuan, you dog!! :)
September 4th, 2006 at 11:04 pmThat is pure crap Hendler. If you paid American workers a fair wage they would be able to afford the worthless junk you produce. You know, the way it has been for 2 centuries. You pay less for more and then blame the workers that your CEO isn't making 45 million instead of 35 million. Are you kidding?
September 4th, 2006 at 11:06 pmyes, now we have "the ceo president".
and notice how he complains about all the "hard work".
September 4th, 2006 at 11:08 pmas if the man's ever had to do a day's hard work in his life...
#564 I have worked for management long enough to realize this truth. I have rarely had one that knew his or her a$$ from a hole in the ground. The ones that were worth their salt were worth paying (as are workers) but it is incredible how the politics of any situation makes it certain that those people are rare. I forget the rule but it was something about a person being promoted to the highest level of his/her incompetence.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:10 pmAmerican execs have NO choice.
yes, i mean, how will they afford the bentley if they give in to the unions? and then there's the mortgage on the vacation home...
it's deplorable the things executives have to go through! a true american tragedy!
September 4th, 2006 at 11:11 pmIn fact the people that were chosen for management were usually total screwups and were dangerous around such equipment and aircraft..usually their day consisted of walking around asking the mechanics, "Are you done yet?" smoking cigarettes and generally just collecting a paycheck.
Management, to me, is the biggest waste funds I have ever seen.
==
With union workers willing to strike, or slow roll or sabotage production, the only way execs can faithfully serve our customers is to turn to overseas production facilities that we can count on. Comment by Jason M. Hendler.
What a load of carp. Without goodd workers your exec wouldn't be able to sit on his fatback all day and play on the internet..
September 4th, 2006 at 11:11 pm#564, Trin,
I worked with UAW workers in factories in the late '80's, where absenteeism was 10% among union workers, witnessed two cases of sabotage and watched a "labor pool" nap all day in the event extra bodies were needed to support the lines.
In your case, in which maintenance is fairly routine, your direct managers don't have much impact on profits. It is the airline execs, who implement market strategies that actually determine the profit or loss.
No offense intended, as I do respect hard skills like mech techs, etc., but yours is a cost center, not a profit center. You are not building new planes, nor are you increasing the money making capacity of airplanes, so you are not "creating" wealth.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:11 pmAnd yes Jason I have also worked as the IT guy and I used to watch the networks and see all the emails, the porno sites, the days spent on Ebay...yeh them execs work real hard.
I would just love to get my hands on a CEO and make him go out and work in the 110 degree heat for 12 hrs and watch that stupid sob flop around on the pavement like a fish out of water when he passes out from the heat...
September 4th, 2006 at 11:15 pmI would just love to get my hands on