Path to 9/11 Writer Admits Controversial Scene Was ‘Improvised,’ ‘Accidents Occur’
Path to 9/11 Writer Admits Controversial Scene Was ‘Improvised,’ ‘Accidents Occur’
ABC is marketing its docudrama, The Path to 9/11, as “based on the 9/11 Commission Report.” It is defending the films multiple inaccuracies by claiming some scenes were “drawn from a variety of sources.”
But yesterday, writer and avowed conservative Cyrus Nowrasteh admitted that the films most controversial scene was based on nothing at all. Nowrasteh told a right-wing radio station that the scene was “improvised.” From the New York Times:
Mr. Berger’s character is also seen abruptly hanging up during a conversation with a C.I.A. officer at a critical moment of a military operation. In an interview yesterday with KRLA-AM in Los Angeles, Cyrus Nowrasteh, the mini-series’ screenwriter and one of its producers, said that moment had been improvised.
“Sandy Berger did not slam down the phone,” Mr. Nowrasteh said. “That is not in the report. That was not scripted. But you know when you’re making a movie, a lot of things happen on set that are unscripted. Accidents occur, spontaneous reactions of actors performing a role take place. It’s the job of the filmmaker to say, ‘You know, maybe we can use that.’ ”
Nowrasteh’s attitude appears completely inconsistent with ABC Entertainment President Steve McPherson. In promotional materials accompanying the film, McPherson said, “When you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.”
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Accidents occur, spontaneous reactions of actors performing a role take place. It’s the job of the filmmaker to say, ‘You know, maybe we can use that.’
That’s why you don’t promote the silly movie as FACT.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:00 amDude, we were just like riffing on terror. The actor was in the moment, man, and we were all like, “yeah, that sounds better than the truth.” Saying that we should treat the story of the largest foreign attack on the U.S. with simple honesty and, you know, go with what was written in the report…Man, that’s like saying Miles Davis shouldn’t have gone out on a limb on “Bitches Brew.” You don’t get us ’cause we’re artists, man. We’re artists.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:04 amI had sent an email to my local ABC affiliate and got a return email that the person was ‘out of the office’ until 9/12. How convenient.
Funny how the writer, directors and producers allowed ‘artistic license’ at such a politically important moment in the ‘docudrama’.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:05 amBoycott ABC now!
September 7th, 2006 at 10:07 amIf he admitted that it was “improvised”, then it is far from “accurate” and cannot be distributed as “fact” to our schools. End of story!
September 7th, 2006 at 10:07 amClearly this then is not based on solid “fact”. Do we want fiction parading as fact sold to our children, then? Scholastic needs to know that we will have none of this brainwashing and rewriting of history.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:08 amBoycott your local affiliate and let them know immediately that we demand the truth, and yes, we can handle the truth.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:08 amMake your children watch Fahrenheit 9/11 and then this bullshit. Comment the movie with them.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:11 amThis isn’t about accidents, this is once again about people with agendas and people with counter-agendas. Filmmakers who claim to make documentaries (Michael Moore – Fahrenheit 911) have shown that this is nothing new, and yet his film was praised by many. Why is it absolutely critical that you get it right on one side but not the other? And since when is a docu-drama mini-series considered accurate REPORTING?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:11 amIt’s official.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:12 amI’m boycotting ABC & sponsors from now on.
You can, too. It easy. Just program your remote
to not include the channel. You won’t miss it, believe me.
You should follow up with a letter or call to your local affiliate.
It’s not their fault, but let them know you will not stand
for inaccuracies & make believe about something as crucial
as 9/11.
and yet his film was praised by many.
Comment by Hish
Cause his facts are right. All sarcastic remarks against Bush are personal. And yeah, it was a movie to be praised. Who else has the courage to do a film like that in US?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:14 amNow I know Regan was a Rep. and they removed the movie about him…What do we need to do to stop this crap.? Has any one emailed Hillery and Bill.? What are we missing here that’s stalling our efforts.?….Maybe we need to re flood all these people with email’s, phone calls and blasting all the station’s sponsers….We only have a few day’s left……Blessings….Peace
September 7th, 2006 at 10:16 amFollow the money to Nowrasteh.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:17 amThat dude needs to be cast out. Locked up.
I Am Cuba
The quote below is from this MSNBC story. My question is – couldn’t Sandy Berger sue for defamation for this?
Among the scenes that the Clinton team said are fictional:
Berger is seen as refusing authorization for a proposed raid to capture bin Laden in spring 1998 to CIA operatives in Afghanistan who have the terrorist leader in their sights. A CIA operative sends a message: “We’re ready to load the package. Repeat, do we have clearance to load the package?” Berger responds: “I don’t have that authority.”
Berger said that neither he nor Clinton ever rejected a CIA or military request to conduct an operation against bin Laden. The Sept. 11 commission said no CIA operatives were poised to attack; that Afghanistan’s rebel Northern Alliance was not involved, as the film says; and that then-CIA Director George J. Tenet decided the plan would not work.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:18 amI’ve looked everywhere on Think Progress for past outrage over Fahrenheit 911 & the Da Vinci Code. I mean if we are going to point out fictional depictions to history, we should probably begin there.
Let’s look at it this way. For 4 years, ABC, CBS, NBC, & CNN have provided nightly fictional accounts of history, giving us an incomplete and often inaccurate presentation of the war in Iraq.
The only difference here is that it makes Clinton look bad instead of Bush.
I’m looking forward to that.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:23 amThis from exec producer Marc Platt in today’s NY Times:
“Marc Platt, the executive producer of “The Path to 9/11,†said he had known that turning a 600-page report into a five-hour drama would ruffle some feathers. “The challenge in any adaptation,†he said, “is how do you render it as dramatic as you can without exceeding the boundaries of what’s fair and accurate.—
Question: Why would anyone want to ‘render it as dramatic(sic)’ if it is being peddled to high school teachers as learning material?
Hunting for Marc Platt contact info, so far only an address and tel. no. at 1965 Broadway, NYC. Can anyone confirm?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:24 am9/11: A FAIRY TALE FROM HELL
http://www.911truthseekers.org/modules/weblog/
http://tyrannyalert.com/video.htm
INVESTIGATE 911
September 7th, 2006 at 10:25 amWho else has the courage to do a film like that in US?
Comment by Juan C
How much courage does it really take to make a film that embraces a popular opinion, though? The american media loves this kindof thing because it sells and the american public loves it because it gives people a reason to throw their fists at their TV sets and take sides.
Whether it be Michael Moore, or ABC, both say their productions are “based” off of something. Based doesn’t equal fact always. We all know that. This isn’t the first TV film we’ve seen that opens with “Based on…”. Ultimately, the 9/11 commission wasn’t respected by anyone because it produced no end results. It was a valiant effort at investigating the events that occurred but there has been no accountability or changes in government as a result.
For as long as America divides itself and points fingers from within, the true culprit (Terrorists) simply need to sit back and watch the house crumble all by itself.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:26 am#17 The Davinci Code?
LOL
That’s too funny.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:26 amOK, the gloves are off. I found two numbers for “Cyrus Nowrasteh” (not a common name) in Camarillo, CA (just north of Malibu):
PEOPLE SEARCH RESULTS 1 – 2 out of about 2.
Name ADVERTISEMENT Address Phone
Cyrus Nowrasteh More Information
Background Check 6421 San Onofre Dr
Camarillo, CA
Add to Address Book, Map 8053891981
Cyrus Nowrasteh More Information
September 7th, 2006 at 10:29 amBackground Check 6421 San Onofre Dr
Camarillo, CA
Add to Address Book, Map 8054847263
Drama passed off as fact infuriates the left..!?
Wow… They must be truly livid about leftist propoganda then, eh..?
“..I did NOT have sex with that woman..” — B(J) Clinton
-Iakeo
September 7th, 2006 at 10:30 amwow banning ABC…
September 7th, 2006 at 10:30 amfor a docu-drama… you’d thought it was some anti-semetic, racist, bigoted homo-phobe piece. Too funny… yet you guys fon’t ban fox news as much as you hate it… this blog wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for fox… how sad.
trblmkr: I do believe that your post violates the Terms of Use at this site…
September 7th, 2006 at 10:32 amStorms,
How many classrooms across this country have received material on how to teach Fahrenheit and Davinci Code to school kids as fact? And please show me the list of actors that appeared in Fahernheit. That make-up guy really made that actor look like bushie. He should have won some award.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:32 amStorms, Hish, morons:
Fahrenheit was always portrayed as an OPINION PIECE, OK? You had to pay to go see it and Moore never had a deal with Scholastic to peddle it to high schools as “learning material”, please find a better counter argument.
Da Vinci Code, you’re kidding, right?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:34 am“Drama passed off as fact infuriates the left..!?”
I’m surprised it doesn’t infuriate the right.
and then you utter some nonsense about a blowjob.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:34 amYou don’t have much else to go on, do you?
Joneser,
September 7th, 2006 at 10:34 amI sure everyone here would agree to stop posting here if Faux News would close up shop as part of a deal.
I’ve looked everywhere on Think Progress for past outrage over Fahrenheit 911 & the Da Vinci Code. I mean if we are going to point out fictional depictions to history, we should probably begin there.
The only difference here is that it makes Clinton look bad instead of Bush.
[...]
I’m looking forward to that.
Comment by Storms
Last I checked, Michael Moore’s films aren’t being distributed to high schools with study guides.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:34 am#17. The Da Vinci Code is a fictional depiction of a myth. What’s your point?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:35 amIakeo sez:
That’s really the best you can come up with for ‘leftist propaganda’, Iakeo? Bubba lying about having sex?
It seems that that’s the best any reighwingnut can do against Clinton…surprising, since there’s so many other, legitimate things one could say.
But instead of saying these things, fools like Iakeo yammer on about a hummer, and fools like Cyrus Nowrasteh just make shit up.
Pathetic.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:35 amHish, the facts in F911 are not in dispute. Sure there are Republican hatchet jobs done that make people think that the facts are in dispute, but these sites bend and selectively use facts to fit their agenda. Moore did the same thing, he selectively used facts. His editorial comments are how he interpreted the facts that can be in contention all you want, and I would have no argument with that. This new fill on the other hand is making facts up and drawing conclusions form these made up facts that the rabid faithful are taking as gospel. There is a big difference there.
I have a problem with them saying it is based entirely on the 911 commission report one minute then saying other sources were used the next. Based upon what the inaccuracies are I would have to guess that the other sources are from the White House, the RNC, Fox News and the rest of the republican dominate media machine. OK If other sources were used, then what was the source that it was the Washington Post who published the story about Bin Laden and his satellite phone and not the Washington Times who actually published it? What was the source, even if they say the scene is a composite of events, of the supposed snatch or assassinate Bin Laden phone hang up? Ummm, well they know Berger has hung a phone, and they know that the CIA guy has used a phone, they knew Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and that we were trying to catch him. I guess they could make a composite scene like that. Now they parse it out…has Berger ever hung up a phone? Has the CIA guy ever used a phone? Were we chasing Bin Laden? Was he in Afghanistan? Is/was the northern alliance on our side? Ok now all those seem to be realistic truths, so lets make this fabricated scene and call it a composite…
One more thing. Way back on 911 wasn’t one of the things we heard continually that we did not have assets on the ground in Afghanistan? Seems to me that was something the right wingers were harping about. The CIA said they were unable to get people to infiltrate Binladens group, though John Walker Lihnd managed to do so, and that getting close enough to Bin Laden to make a strike was nigh impossible? Yet here we have a scene with our guys apparently close enough to spit at him.
I wonder if the movie talks about how at the beginning of his term Bush had the unmanned drones program stopped completely while they armed the drones with missiles? If I am not mistaken that lasted many many months, so we could not even get any photo reconnaissance during that period prior to 911. We know it won’t have him frozen like a deer in the headlights for the first couple days after the attack. We also know it won’t show his administration completely rejecting the Clinton administrations warnings about terrorism. Definitely not.
Question for the right wingers…frequently the argument is made, by the right, that there have been ore traffic deaths and murders in the US over the last three years than there have been American deaths in Iraq, therefore we should not be concerned about the human toll in Iraq. If that is the case, then why be concerned about terrorism at all? Haven’t we had fewer terrorism related deaths in the last ten years than we have had murders, even in the last year? Actually I know the answer, we have to be worried about terrorism, because it is a great political tool for the republicans to wield.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:36 amtripmaster, prove it. That’s public info from yahoo, both listed numbers.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:36 amhttp://abctvstore.seenon.com/index.php?&spid=&v=abcvewjso&g=1&bin=
Symantec
Mr. Clean
Pampers
Bounty
Bosch Tools
Thermador
Benjamin Moore Paint
Vector Appliances
Nordstrom
TIVO
Products sold on ABC
September 7th, 2006 at 10:37 amOk, I forgot to add Al Gore’s fictional account of the future. I guess I was just focused on history. Several schools took field trips to see that load of crap.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:39 amWhy the uproar? This is just a Michael Moore type of film. It isn’t true but at least people aren’t paying to see this.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:40 amtrblmkr: From The Terms of Use:
I don’t have any problem with your post…I’m just warning you that it might inexplicably go missing in the future, that’s all.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:42 amI don’t even see what the big is, ABC is going to run a fictional piece on 911, the cons are going to source it as fact, and the liberals are going to debunk based on actual facts, and the cons will continue to believe it.
I mean, it’s not like cons have had facts on their side for the last 6 years.
They’re entire existance is based on lies and manipulation. The truth about 911 isn’t necessary, just ask them.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:42 amIsn’t it funny when Michael Moore changes the facts to fit his agenda it is OK. Fahrenheit 9/11, has been shown time and again to be riddled with outright lies. Try reading some real objective websites, an example would be factcheck.org. Basically, if you put it if you put it on paper on the screen, some people will accept it as fact.
If someone does a movie that may seems to benefit the right, that is a problem. Lets remember Clinton had eight years while terrorism was ramping up, Bush had eight months. I read the 9/11 report, not very enjoyable, and from the previews of the movie seem to be pretty accurate. How does the film maker know what went on behind close doors? (This is retorical.) He doesn’t, he has to make the private actions go along with the facts that we know. Oh, my god, if Bill or Hillary says it didn’t happen that way it must be true, I mean Bill would never lie. Sandy Berger, lets see, accidently took classified documents, stuffed in his pants.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:42 amI guess that Storms just can’t put 2 and 2 together. Sadly, another victim of our failing school systems.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:42 amStorms, asswipe:
So now you’re a time traveler? Gore’s movie expalins a (widely accepted) theory about the future. The “docudrama” The Lies to 9/11 claims to be about past actual events. Can’t you tell the difference, really?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:43 amOk, I forgot to add Al Gore’s fictional account of the future. I guess I was just focused on history. Several schools took field trips to see that load of crap.
Comment by Storms
Once again, Al Gore’s film wasn’t distributed to high schools with study guides.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:44 amAnd I’m sure Storms has a list of the inaccuracies and improvizations in Gore’s movie.
Maybe you’ll run em down in an appropriate thread.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:46 amtrblmkr: From The Terms of Use:
You agree not to:
• Post any private information or otherwise harvest, collect or disclose information, about another Blogger without his or her express consent.
I don’t have any problem with your post…I’m just warning you that it might inexplicably go missing in the future, that’s all.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 7, 2006 @ 10:42 am
Thanks for not having any problem with my post and, yes, I know it may be deleted but not because it contravenes the Term of Use, but maybe in an “abundance of caution” on ThinkProgress’s part. As I point out in bold, this is NOT private info and as far as I know Mr. Nowrasteh is not a blogger on this site.
Thank you,
September 7th, 2006 at 10:47 amand just curious….wasn’t Al Gore’s “fictional account of the future” released in the summer, when 90% or so students are ON SUMMER BREAK?
ps….what is a fictional account of the future? Better yet, what is a NON-FICTIONAL ACCOUNT of the future? Aren’t all future predictions fictional until they actually happen?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:47 amGood point Storm. I forgot about Al Gores film and then one of networks did a two hour special about how the world could end. Then number one way, GLOBAL WARMING. I know they don’t have their facts correct when they make comments like “in the past 30 years, hurricanes have been getting more deadly”. What about the billion or so years before that?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:48 amURGENT!!!!
Just got off the phone with Ms. Kyle Good, VP of Corporate Communications at Scholastic. They have pulled the material and are meeting shortly to discuss what to do. They know there are many materials already out there and are discussing what to do or how to deal with it.
Please call their offices right now (10:55 AM – Eastern Time).
Contact Us
For comments or questions concerning Scholastic products or services, please contact:
Investor Relations
212-343-6741
Corporate Communications
September 7th, 2006 at 10:48 am(Kyle Good’s office)
212-343-4563
ABC Television/News is blatantly and knowingly passing this scurrilously dishonest portrayal of the run up to 9/11 as historical fact. They are intentionally doing this, as is proved by their reprehensible action of supplying schools with the propaganda to promote their inaccurate version. Broadcasting this piece of fiction on the very anniversary of the attack, also reinforces the impression that this is fact. This is beyond shameful! As is being charged in a number of other blogs, this could be interpreted as ABC’s effort to sway the coming election. If this isn’t their intention, they would either pull this piece of trash, or correct each of the inaccuracies. ABC/Disney is one Corporation, and each and every division, department or segment of it deserves to be boycotted!
September 7th, 2006 at 10:51 am#48
EXCELLENT WORK fs!!!
September 7th, 2006 at 10:51 amGood point Storm. I forgot about Al Gores film and then one of networks did a two hour special about how the world could end. Then number one way, GLOBAL WARMING. I know they don’t have their facts correct when they make comments like “in the past 30 years, hurricanes have been getting more deadlyâ€. What about the billion or so years before that?
Comment by Greg
Are you people really this dumb? You try to compare a film discussing scientific research and theories with a film that’s supposed to be a factual historical “documentary”? Note the difference – people who were THERE are disputing the supposed “facts” in the 9/11 movie. There is a bit of a difference.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:53 amMark, you made a lot of legitimate points. Thanks for being informative and articulate. You sparked a really good idea. Films like these can be so influential these days. Back in school we all had to footnote or cite our sources when we drew a conclusion or used an outside source. With all the technology we have today, wouldn’t it be nice and very appropriate to have all sources required to be listed at the end of the movie or on the DVD that comes with it?
September 7th, 2006 at 10:53 amSo the Reps have bought ABC/Disney. Not surprised. Bush blaming Clinton AGAIN. Hey, Mr. president, it’s been five years why don’t you take responsibility for YOUR actions for a change. Oh, yeah, responsibility is a word you can’t pronounce and isn’t in your vocabulary. Dubya say keeps saying that we have to fight the enemy in the middle east so they don”t come to America and kill more Americans. So is it better that more Americans have been killed in the middle east than those who died on September 11th?
The movie is just another example of Karl Rove at work. And the Reps. showing that if you say it often enough idiots will believe it as fact. There are IDIOTS who still believe the war in Iraq is about WMD’s, and Saddam Hussein and payback for September 11th. But then again these are the same people who believe the economy is fantastic and the United States is a democracy and George W. Bush is the best president America has had.
Hopefully, someday people will wake up and realize none of this is true. But not before more Americans continue to die for an unknown noble cause.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:54 am#51
September 7th, 2006 at 10:55 amProbably the only blind people that should truly be pitied are those that choose to be.
They are disputing the facts that are not available to be verified. Only facts that put them in a bad light.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:56 amI forgot about Al Gores film and then one of networks did a two hour special about how the world could end. Then number one way, GLOBAL WARMING.
Thats some medieval thought you have there. Global Warming will produce extreme changes in human habitats and biosphere, however, in no way it would be the end of the planet, probably of mankind. We are one of millions of species that have been around on Earth. Earth doesnt give a damn whether we extinct or not.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:58 am33
Mark
If you found a quote using that analogy and of no concern for the mortality of our troops I would like to see it. I do believe the analogy you refer to is proportion to other wars we have been in. Nevertheless…
I suppose you are right to a degree… if we will chalk up planes flying into buildings as TSA, pilot error or air traffic accidents every 5 years… we could just wait for them to happen and explain it away as statistically probable.
We should also as Israel how they addressed their statistical probabilities to night clubs and cafes and hospitals being blown up by suicide bombers.
I’d love to to know the troops who feel they would rather wait for terrorists to reload and wait for something to happen… that might involve the lives of their family in some school or building here at home, over taking a premptive move and put them on the defensive.
I also wait for the left explain their solution to the problem and how it will not embolden the islamic fascists. I beleieve it was Bin Laden who saw how we handled our peace keeping mission in rwanda that to him showed at the first sign of blood shed we run… Paper Tigers.
And be as it may that the left like to call the right war mongers etc… and Bush never served in the military… how about we let just the military decide what to do in war… being that they are serving… let them vote on the direction… being that you or i haven’t served right? Only veterans and the enlisted should decide… well, we all know what woulod happen in that vote.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:59 amIt sounds like ABC got it “right”, that’s for sure… FAR RIGHT. So far right of the truth, it belongs in Bush’s stump speeches. I say let them air it, then sue the cr@p out of them. Get the truth into the courts one way or another.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:00 amJust called scholastic, it sounded like a madhouse in the background. I was told they want all complaints/concerns sent via email to news (at) scholastic (dot) com . They said they preferred this method so they could “document” them ( I guess that means yays vs. nays) and promised all would be read and responded to.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:00 amREMEMBER, BE POLITE!
Anyone else remember this?
Or this Bill O’Reilly screed?
Or this one?
Apparently, yeah.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:00 amCan someone please translate what Joneser just wrote. My eyes hurt.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:01 amThey are disputing the facts that are not available to be verified. Only facts that put them in a bad light.
Comment by Greg
So you say. But, a number of the people directly THERE weren’t even ASKED about various events. Their excuse was they couldn’t “interview everyone”. Ok – they spent 40 million dollars on this thing – yet they couldn’t talk to maybe a dozen people directly involved? And/or provide advance copies of their work for some comment? For any sort of “documentary”, you at least attempt to contact those involved – in this case, that didn’t happen. (It’s not like those involved were dead or something)
So – Bzzzz – try again.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:02 amWhat kind of Americans would approve of a fictional account of 911 anyway?
Sorry right-wingers, but I don’t understand your defense of this movie.
You either want the truth or you don’t, and obviously, you don’t
So, why is that?
September 7th, 2006 at 11:02 amThanks for the link – I just send ABC my support and I told them to stand strong against the anti-free-speech Democrats
Funny, Democrats said nothing when Moore released his “pack of lies” propaganda piece just before the election and he is said he was trying to effect the election with his propaganda – you hypocrites.
Democrats have been spending years trying to spin it that Clinton had nothing to do with 911 – the spin is crashing down. American was attack by Osama three times while Clinton was president – he did nothing. Clinton blew at least two chances to get Osama.
The Democrat wall of spin and nonsense is crashing down and Moonbats are squealing like stuck piglets.
In election 2006 – The Democrats are in the process of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. American is not going to like this censorship drive.
I am enjoying watching the meltdown
September 7th, 2006 at 11:04 amHow much courage does it really take to make a film that embraces a popular opinion, though?
Popular opinion. According to you guys, popular opinion blames Bush for everything. How does this film go along with popular opinion?
DRxJ, “An Inconvenient Truth” was released in May. Most schools get out in June.
You’re absolutely right about fictional accounts of the future. That’s a good point. Al Gore’s depiction of what will happen in the future has got to be fictional, though because his view of the present is fictional. I was just getting ahead of myself.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:05 amLee,
Tell me where you stood about the “censorship” of the Reagan miniseries. Inquiring minds want to know.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:06 amHow much courage does it really take to make a film that embraces a popular opinion, though?
Comment by Hish
Popular opinion is meaningless in US. Check the 35% supporting Bush and yet he is still the President of US. NOw, thats a good democracy, right? Moore doesnt have support from the media, nor Chomsky nor disident or critical voices. The presidential figure in US is god-like, I dont understand why, and somebody critizicing him is seeing as a terrorist supporter. Isn that right? So, yeah, it takes courage to criticize people that are driving your country to a state of fear so it (government) can achieve profits out of US citizens dumbness.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:10 amThey would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for you meddling kids.
Seriously though, it just goes to show you how precious and valuable our freedoms are and why they should always be protected tooth and nail. The news media USED to be the ones who did that, now of course they are more of a tool – lazy, over paid and appreciative of the “access†and perks afforded them. This administration and a major company would have gotten away with rewriting history.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:11 amThe real mental shortcomings of wingnuts are on full display right here for all to see, and it almost makes you pity them. They truly don’t understand the difference between “fact” and “fiction”, confusing that with the difference between “pro-left” and “pro-right”.
For them, power and party truly are all that matters, since they seem to suffer from some sort of mental disability that prevents them from telling reality from fantasy. Thank God they’re in a tiny (and shrinking) minority.
Key example here is Greg:
He’s essentially claiming that no one can know what happened, so one might as well believe “Path to 9/11″ (even though the moviemaker himself has said it’s a work of fiction). He seems to simply be lacking the critical thinking skills to allow a distinction between “anything could be true” and “from everything we know, based on everyone who is in a position to know, it’s false”. It’s especially eggregious in a case like this, in which we actually DO know a tremendous amount from many sources. This isn’t ancient history.
“Path to 9/11″ is fiction. It’s acknowledged as such by ABC/Disney and the filmmaker. That wingnuts attempt to defend it as potentially accurate is a sad, pathetic commentary on what today passes for the right wing.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:12 amDemocrats said nothing when Moore released his “pack of lies†propaganda piece just before the election and he is said he was trying to effect the election with his propaganda – you hypocrites.
Comment by Lee
Could you post one of the “Moore´s lies”? I am curious.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:13 am46
September 7th, 2006 at 11:14 amyes
that’s why al gore was going after impressionable students with is project during the filming. that’s why the promotions were of college students and highschool kids comments and not middle aged adults.
Here’s what I sent to Scholastic, FYI:
Dear Scholastic,
I’m sure Scholastic’s initial intentions were good, after all, I read Gov. Kean’s “educator letter” and it was darn impressive: “As the Chair of The 9/11 Commission, I worked closely with the filmmakers and the network to ensure the miniseries accurately reflects both the facts and the spirit of the Commission’s findings.”
Now we find out that key portions of crucial scene’s, like Sandy Berger hanging up on a CIA operative begging to “take out” Osama were “accidents” according to the writer Cyrus Nowrasteh.
I don’t think Scholastic can any longer, in good conscience, offer any “sudy guides” or “discussion guides” associated with this fictional film. Materials already distributed should be recalled if possible.
in amicus,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:15 amI’ll second Juan’s request.
Others have attempted to impugn F911. While the filming and presentation were undeniably biased and designed to present an anti-Bush point-of-view, no one has yet come up with a legitimate lie told by Moore in the film.
Yet another example of wingnuts unable to discern “fact” from “fiction”, instead focusing on “for me” or “against me”.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:16 amI agree that this is a piece of “work”. I don’t like Michael Moore’s editing or his accounts on how things work either.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:17 amThe idea that anyone can change history (JFK, Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine….etc) for the purpose of entertainment is bad.
This is not a left or right issue. All people should want to stop this idea of changing history.
Why didn’t we see the same outrage from Clinton on the Michael Moore docudramas? Because it didn’t affect him….
Joneser,
Gore’s assertions about global warming dangers are not in serious dispute by reputable scientists.
Not sure where you’re putting your faith — I’m guessing it’s in whatever pundit tells you what you want to hear — but the facts he presents are simply not hotly contested at this point. They’re pretty much accepted by those who are in a position to know.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:18 amClayburn,
You have to admit, it would be kind of tough for Clinton to respond personally to every perceived instance of defamation. It happens all the time.
Wingnuts, however, made broad statements of condemnation against the Reagan documentary on basic principle grounds. Those same people think “Path to 9/11″ is just dandy. There really isn’t much room to call that anything other than rank hypocrisy.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:20 am#74- Clayburn9:
The difference is Michael Moore’s films are commentary, that’s well known. He’s not sending his films to high schools (with study guides) as tho they are unbiased history. Of course, as others have asked – please cite something false in F911. (Aside from Moore’s editorial opinion)
Again, why don’t you people see the difference between what Moore does and what ABC/Scholastic is doing?
September 7th, 2006 at 11:21 amlast night on majorityreportradio, sam had a caller who claimed that F9/11 had “26″ proven errors in it… sam asked the guy to name 3… “uh… well… i can’t… i don’t… …” right…
NAME THREE (3)…
September 7th, 2006 at 11:21 amFor wingnuts, there is no such thing as “truth” when power and ideology are at stake. The old Krugman canard applies to a “T”: “opinions on shape of earth differ”.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:21 amKaty,
They’ve tried. They’ve compiled impressive lists of alleged “falsehoods”, all of which have been ably debunked.
The right simply doesn’t have the truth on its side. That wasn’t always the case, but they’ve pretty much abandoned truth for power these days.
Anything for the cause…
September 7th, 2006 at 11:23 amMrTimPA,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:23 amThey keep bringing it up to get us off the topic of this pos “docudrama”.
They know we’ll take the bait. That’s all.
66
dlet
since you can’t respond to mine i will yours
the fortunate part about this 9/11 docudrama is that anyone in the movie who disputes what was said or portrayed whether about others or themselves has the ability to.
Reagan was dead or passing at the time of the Reagan Mini-series.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:23 amThe idea that anyone can change history (JFK, Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine….etc)
Comment by Clayburn9
That all depends on your definition of history. You probably dislike Moore´s style, sarcasm or physical appearance, but where is the history changed in Roger & me, for example? where it is changed in Bowling for Columbine (which was said to be the Best Documentary Ever)? Again, no reasons just emotions.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:24 am#60 funny thing is that the screenwriters got that quote from a Reagan Bio that had been out on the shelves for years.
#64 for years the right has been spinning it that Bush had nothing whatsoever to do with 911 too. This in spite of the fact that it occurred 8 months after he was sworn in, after he was told explicitly that Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US, after many local FBI offices had warnings of young Arab men learning to fly but not land planes, after most of the hijackers arrived in the country on his watch etc… But his administration had nothing to do with 911 because it occurred only 8 months after he took office. But they blame Clinton though he was no longer in office, and they still blame Clinton for the first attack which occurred 30 days or so after he took his oath of office.
I used to be one of you, a frothing at the mouth right wing Limbaugh listening, kill em all they are guilty of something sort of guy. But after seeing how much emphasis was being placed on a blow job and how the right wing became nothing more than a political propaganda machine I had to switch. The main driving force behind my switch? Going back to church. I realized that what I was learning in church and the bible is in direct contradiction to what the republican party stands for.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:24 amThey know we’ll take the bait. That’s all.
Comment by trueblue
And Im biting as a shark. Ok, I will focus from now on. :)
September 7th, 2006 at 11:26 amSee you later.
MrTimPA,
They keep bringing it up to get us off the topic of this pos “docudramaâ€.
They know we’ll take the bait. That’s all.
Comment by trueblue
I know, and I’m not biting either..:)
September 7th, 2006 at 11:27 amStorms
You are an idiot. Plain and simple. By definition all accounts of the future have to be fictional, because the future has not happened yet. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
Furthermore, Gore’s movie was basically presenting what was the scientific concensus on global warming. It was indeed presenting a side of the argument, which you righties find inconvenient, and which I am sure Gore himself thinks is the truth. Gore may be wrong, who knows, but if so the mass of scientific oppinion is wrong too, and frankly the level of sheer outright willful ignorance by the rightwing on enviromental issues raises several queries on your sanity. You don’t have to swallow broken glass to believe somebody when they say it is bad for you.
Which is why I am very, totally unsurprised at the fact that you are trying to use a book that was in fact a action thriller and a stated piece of fiction in order to counterbalance this movie. The Da Vinci Code was a not particularly well written work of fiction, it is not required to be the truth, because it does not claim to be the truth. If you get your religious history from works of fiction, you are the same sort of person who believes the Romans were stupid enough to let their most popular criminals go, during a period of civil unrest. (And that one is in the Bible.)
Farenheit 9/11. Well lets put it this way, it would take a total idiot to not have figured out by then that Michael Moore is a liberal. He has been very vocal about that. Further, his facts are actually correct, they are given a slant and I defy you to name one instance of his outright lying. He did create a false impression throughout the movie, but he didn’t actually lie.
This miniseries on the other hand, has put forward lies to support its arguments. Indeed several key scenes have already been exposed for being utter bullshit, and the miniseries isn’t even out yet. While Michael Moore’s 9/11 movie does not have any actionable scenes, ABC’s 9/11 docudrama is well on its way to court.
Now I for one, have no problems with the fact that this is a rightwing viewpoint on 9/11. I have problems with the fact that this docudrama is trying to pass itself off as being factual, and I have major problems with the fact that it isn’t.
Further aside from my previous argument, I have a problem with shits like you, who take examples of what you see as being wrong doing on the other side, and try to use those examples to excuse wrongdoing on your side. Your philosophy of two wrongs making a right was debunked for me, in preschool.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:29 amdlet: “Tell me where you stood about the “censorship†of the Reagan miniseries. Inquiring minds want to know.”
dlet, unlike Democrats, I am not for any censorship. Thank you for asking.
The Reagan piece sucked – nobody liked it – the right said it was bogus and the Moonbats said it did not attack Reagan enough. (it was not a political piece). It was pulled months before the planned airing and before it was finish as far as I remember.
Democrats are mad their spin is going to be exposed – and they spent so many years building it with the help vast left wing media
Clinton had 8 years to get Osama (we were attacked in Clinton’s first year), Bush had 8 months – he did nothing but bomb a aspirin factory the evening before Monica testified against him – although it was “Mission Accomplished” for Clinton because he changed the headlines.
The planning and training for 911 happened while Clinton was president
The 911 report has been seen as watered-down and is not the only source of facts (far from it). Many believe the 911 report spin very much leftward.
Clinton had at least two chances to get Osama before 911 – he did nothing.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:31 amFurther aside from my previous argument, I have a problem with shits like you, who take examples of what you see as being wrong doing on the other side, and try to use those examples to excuse wrongdoing on your side. Your philosophy of two wrongs making a right was debunked for me, in preschool.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
………nice one! ;)
September 7th, 2006 at 11:32 amJuan, MrTim,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:33 amI wasn’t criticizing you, just pointing out that they love doing this to us! :))
RE: 51 Are you people really this dumb? You try to compare a film discussing scientific research and theories with a film that’s supposed to be a factual historical “documentaryâ€? Note the difference – people who were THERE are disputing the supposed “facts†in the 9/11 movie. There is a bit of a difference.
Comment by MrTimPA
i hate to intervene in such a heated debate but… Al Gore did present his movie as fact, or better yet, in a factual manner. Many of the items Gore did present are still very much up for debate. On the other hand, Al’s movie cost people $7.50 or more to see, whereas you don’t even need to have cable t.v. to see ABC’s. I hate to say it (GULP) but I agree with the progressives on this one.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:33 amLee,
You’re kidding about that “vast left wing media” thing, right?
Tell me you’re a little more aware than THAT.
Clinton tried. Bush ignored the problem completely.
And no, Clinton didn’t have “at least two chances to get bin Laden”. That’s part of the fiction. If you can’t tell fact from fiction, how can you carry on a reasonable discussion over the ABC/Disney hit piece?
September 7th, 2006 at 11:34 amClinton had at least two chances to get Osama before 911 – he did nothing.
Comment by Lee Hodge — September 7, 2006 @ 11:31 am
Where’d you get that lie? From the Path to 911?
What is it with you people an non-facts?
September 7th, 2006 at 11:35 amOK,
Did anyone else just have a scooby-doo moment with coachjason?
Welcome to the light, coach!
September 7th, 2006 at 11:35 amThe main driving force behind my switch? Going back to church. I realized that what I was learning in church and the bible is in direct contradiction to what the republican party stands for.
Comment by Mark — September 7, 2006 @ 11:24 am
Hear hear Mark! I can ditto that (sorry for the pun). I was “an independent”, and still somewhat am, but started leaning towards the left during the whole Kenneth Starr investigation. I’ve become more left as I continue my education of Jesus, who truly was a “liberal” in his teachings. It’s the little things, such as taking care of the poor and the hungry, and being against the killing of innocents (Iraqi civilians, as well as our soldiers), that make me proud to be LEFT, as would Jesus want!!!
September 7th, 2006 at 11:35 amSee, Lee’s comments are a perfect example. Wingnuts simply don’t care about facts. They’ll latch on to anything that either 1) boosts their cause or 2) tells them what they want to hear.
There’s a real problem with a lack of skepticism on the right. It’s been there for years, but it’s gotten far worse over the last six.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:36 amBut after seeing how much emphasis was being placed on a blow job
Comment by Mark
Hey, buddy, please do not give demerits to blowjobs. :)
September 7th, 2006 at 11:37 amThats some medieval thought you have there. Global Warming will produce extreme changes in human habitats and biosphere, however, in no way it would be the end of the planet, probably of mankind. We are one of millions of species that have been around on Earth. Earth doesnt give a damn whether we extinct or not.
Comment by Juan C — September 7, 2006 @ 10:58 am
This is the speak of the people who produced the show. You are using semantics to try and skirt the issue. If you want, I can do the same. The term “World” is of human nature. No other animal on the planet know the definition of the word. So, if you humans where gone, so would the word “World”. Hence, the world has ended.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:38 am#47 – Greg,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:38 amThere are no reports of hurricanes from more than 30,000 years ago. Therefore, none occured before then. This is clear evidence that they are caused by human activity starting with ancient camp fires. /satire off
Juan C “Could you post one of the “Moore´s liesâ€? I am curious.”
There are numerous websites – I will not do your research for you – sounds like you may just parrot what your handlers tell you.
Off the top of my head:
Moore said Bush was reading “My pet goal” when in fact the book was “Reading Dynamics” – a small lie, but I lie just the same.
Juan – you need to do some real research and don’t buy everything left wing extremist blogs are selling you.
Start here:
September 7th, 2006 at 11:40 amUnfairenheit 9/11: The lies of Michael Moore. by Christopher Hitchens
What do you mean by Scooby-Doo moment? It’s actually funn that you mention that. Just yesterday I saw a bumper sticker that said W.W.S.D…. What Would Scooby-Doo? I love it!
September 7th, 2006 at 11:41 am“Moore said Bush was reading “My pet goal†when in fact the book was “Reading Dynamics†– a small lie, but I lie just the same.”
You can’t even word that correctly to make it a lie.
Try again, please, it’s amusing.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:42 amLee,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:42 amAs I noted, not one of the claims about F911 have held up to scrutiny. Perhaps you should turn that urging to do real research inward…
Hence, the world has ended.
Comment by Greg
I know what you mean. I did twist the issue towards semantics. Sorry. But that anthropocentric point of view is just wrong. That attitude is the reason why still we plunder and pollute the Earth, killing species everyday. And of course, any word in any language is a human invention, but what we meant when we say world, will still exist after we are no longer here.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:44 amcoachjason,
That’s when you cock your head to on side and go
“Rrhuuuuuuuuuuuh?”
(get it? Like he did in the show…)
September 7th, 2006 at 11:44 amComment by Lee Hodge
September 7th, 2006 at 11:46 amI will. However as Michael Moore is doing biased movies, Bush is killing people. Who do you think I like most?
oops, one side.
btw: my daughter has the t-shirt!
September 7th, 2006 at 11:46 ami hate to intervene in such a heated debate but… Al Gore did present his movie as fact, or better yet, in a factual manner. Many of the items Gore did present are still very much up for debate. On the other hand, Al’s movie cost people $7.50 or more to see, whereas you don’t even need to have cable t.v. to see ABC’s. I hate to say it (GULP) but I agree with the progressives on this one.
Comment by coachjason
There is hope! While I disagree with your global warming is “still very much up for debate” – that’s a sincere difference of opinion. But, when you do a “documentary” on live people, surely they can be asked or interviewed – which didn’t happen in the ABC thing.
And you’re right, people paid to see Gore’s flick as well as Moore’s flicks – but ABC is using the airwaves to broadcast this thing.
Perhaps they should interview all of those directly involved (from Clinton on down) and air those interviews prior to the movie.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:46 amthanks Trueblue!
September 7th, 2006 at 11:47 amI have one question for liberals here… If the ABC crockumentary painted both Clinton and Bush in a bad light, like the 9/11 commission report did, would you be as angry with it?
Misc, As I noted, not one of the claims about F911 have held up to scrutiny. Perhaps you should turn that urging to do real research inward…
Misc, your statement is factually incorrect – not unlike your censorship attack on ABC. If you think your statement is true – point us to your evidence.
Do some research and stop pulling “facts” out of your anus.
Have a nice day
September 7th, 2006 at 11:47 am-Lee
Lee: “…I lie just the same.”
Yeah, we noticed.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:48 amNo Coach, if it was a factual representation of the 911 commission report, I for one would have no problem with it.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:48 amcoachjason,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:50 amThey do say Bush made mistakes in the movie.
The problem is, those are factual mistakes!
The CIA/Clinton thing just did not happen!
If it showed factual mistakes, then by all means let’s see what went wrong. That’s the only way to learn what to do differently/better.
Juan C: “I will. However as Michael Moore is doing biased movies, Bush is killing people. Who do you think I like most?”
Moore is a liar – Bush is the leader of the free world – I am guessing you most likely like the liar most. Sad.
Who do you think Bush personally killed?
Using your standard, how many did Clinton kill?
September 7th, 2006 at 11:50 amWho do you think Bush personally killed?
Well, Lee
His wife killed her old boyfriend.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:52 amBush paid for his old girlfriend to have an abortion.
…………..
I see you’re into obfuscation Lee, good republican that you are.
Bush lied to get us into war with Iraq, ergo, he’s killed our troops.
You can go on and tell me how the mobile-bio-weapons labs, the smoking gun in the form of mushroom clouds, Curveball, Aerodrones cpable of hitting the US, the 45 minute deployment, and the many attempts at painting Saddam as being part of the 911 plot weren’t lies…but you’ll have to lie to do it.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:55 amThank You AnAmerican Previously I have only read the footnotes on the 9/11 report, but over the last few days I’ve managed to read most of the whole thing… skipping over a few chapters on semantics… and it truely paints both administrations in a very bad light. The comission cited lack of creativity, I call that the understatement of the millennium. It was the lack of courage to devise new policy to deal with an obviously growing threat. I say we never again elect a President who has not got the stomache to deal be proactive not reactive. And I don’t mean proactive by preemptive. I mean dealing with actual specifics!
September 7th, 2006 at 11:55 amOkay, a critique of your debunk.
Frankly, it mostly argues against Moore’s conclusions and not his facts first off. I didn’t agree with Moore’s conclusions, but that doesn’t mean Moore didn’t use facts to reach his conclusions.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:55 amSecond, it uses an incident which was not in the movie to try and debunk F 9/11. Mucho Crappo Logiko.
Third: See my post to Storms on two wrongs making a right.
Lee: “…I lie just the same.â€
Nitpicker: “Yeah, we noticed.”
So nipicker is a blog spelling/grammar/typo Nazi – good for you nit – clearly I meant “a lie just the sameâ€
Nitpicker, what do you CLAIM i lied about or is this just more Moonbat empty baseless accusation (like the Plume-Wilson nonsense)
September 7th, 2006 at 11:56 am#88 We were attacked 30 days or so after Clinton took office, true, but it is also true that those responsible have been captured tried and convicted. Opps, that’s a small factoid missing from your narrative. He did not have 8 years of chasing Bin Laden. Bin laden was not a known enemy till around 1996 or so. But once he did start going after him, he was thwarted by republicans accusing him of waging the dog at every chance they could. Hmm, I guess republicans are not so tough on terrorism are they?
True some of the planning took place under Clintons term, but those young Arab men who entered the country legally during George Bush’s regime also took their flying lessons while in this country while Bush was president.
Yes the 911 report is seen as watered down…by the white house. The white house picked the chair and had editorial powers. They should have had no input as to the final product. Their input alone takes away the independence that the report is supposed to have. Remember the White House was absolutely against investigating 911 from the beginning and only succumbed to popular pressure.
Regarding the Reagan movie the only voices I heard in protest were from the right and their main point of contention was a line they say he never uttered, but could be found in a biography that had been on store shelves for years. I don’t recall anyone on the left being passionate about it. Though there were people who said let it air and let viewers decide, the only passion in the debate came from the right.
With the Gore movie all I have to say is that if you do not understand science then there is no point in discussing the movie. With science you have Hypothesis, theory and law. Hypothesis is the “Guestimate” Theory is when the hypothesis is proven and law is something that occurs every time regardless. You can use theory to predict the unknown. For instance the theory of relativity has been used to locate objects in the universe that were not previously known to exist, or where they existed. With the Gore movie they take a set of facts and scientific peer reviewed studies and use them to predict what the future might entail. Now if the future might entail disaster for mankind, the left says do something about it, the right says, no it is only a guess and besides, it might hurt business. Business is always more important than people.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:56 amSorry delete the word “deal” in my last post.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:57 am#109 – coachjason,
September 7th, 2006 at 11:58 amI would have no objection if it were truthful in its content, no matter who it placed in a bad light.
I seem to remember that when the fictional novel, “War of the Worlds”, was dramatized on 1930’s radio, some people went into panic mode, believing it was really happening. Not all people will realize the “The Path to 9/11″ is a work of fiction as they watch it. The fact that it is wrapped around a most tragic event in our nations history will make its broadcast a crime against the United States.
“As I noted, not one of the claims about F911 have held up to scrutiny”
Er, I call b******* for that one. Because Moore makes a biased film, does not mean all his facts are false. Your hubris about your opinion is overreaching itself. Same applies to the ABC film – difference, ABC is pushing this out on the airwaves, Moore made people pay to see it. ABC has a responsibility to do everthing it can to be factual, Moore preaches to the faithful. Back on topic Lee, your “well you are so what am I” tactic is smoked out. This is not about Moore.
September 7th, 2006 at 11:58 amI see you’re into obfuscation Lee, good republican that you are.
Bush lied to get us into war with Iraq, ergo, he’s killed our troops.
You can go on and tell me how the mobile-bio-weapons labs, the smoking gun in the form of mushroom clouds, Curveball, Aerodrones cpable of hitting the US, the 45 minute deployment, and the many attempts at painting Saddam as being part of the 911 plot weren’t lies…but you’ll have to lie to do it.
Comment by AnAmerican — September 7, 2006 @ 11:55 am
It would help it all of you would read the senate intel report on this also. Bush did not lie, he may facts wrong but that is different from lying. Also Saddam did have dealings with terrorism. Wilson lied concerning yellowcake. They were trying to get the it. Oh, by the way, it was Richard Armitage who leaked Valarie Plames name, don’t hear much about that do we?
September 7th, 2006 at 11:59 amLEE: You really are a fool… Did you even see F911? I doubt it. Your just another one of those old school right wing rednecks who just cant see that your party doesnt give a shit about you and your blue collar job. WAKE UP AMERICA!
September 7th, 2006 at 12:00 pmAnAmerican: “Bush lied to get us into war with Iraq, ergo, he’s killed our troops.”
Put up or shut up – what do you think Bush lied about? Be specifiec. Note: look up the meaning of the word “lie” first – lots of Moonbat only parrot.
What does this have to do with the ABC 911 peice?
“attempts at painting Saddam as being part of the 911 plot weren’t lies…but you’ll have to lie to do it”
That is Moonbat mythology – nobody claimed Saddam had a connection to the 911 plot. Why do Moonbats lie?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:00 pm#114 – “leader of the free world” – b****** again. Look around Lee, the free world isn’t folllowing. headlines in yesterday’s Canadian paper: “Bush says Canada breeds terrorists”. Stick to the hyperbole about your basketball team Lee (pity it doesn’t work for baseball), the world isn’t listening to people like you.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:03 pmOh and on global warming. We know the earth has had many ice ages. So, exactly how did we get out of those ice ages? Oh, that is right, warming.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:03 pmLee, as a fellow Republican, you better slow down. I have much knowledge on what you’re talking about and it was said many times that there was a link from Usama to Saddam. The issue is thin at best. If Bush got us into this war based on any misconstruing of intel, he deserves what’s coming to him. I believe you need to do some more research before you try to argue with the “moonbats”. They are wrong sometimes… but they are right a lot too.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:03 pm“We found the weapons of mass destruction”
That was easy Lee.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:06 pmLee,
Funny that you should describe private-sector efforts to influence the behavior of a private-sector company as “censorship”.
I guess we can add “basic misunderstandings about American civics” to the list of wingnut maladies.
Jason,
September 7th, 2006 at 12:07 pmI second what others said here. If the movie’s truthful, as far as I’m concerned it could nail Bush/Clinton/whoever.
coach
September 7th, 2006 at 12:07 pmIt is my belief that “name calling” is the result of losing an argument, or not being able to defend one’s position with facts.
The only facts Lee has posted was not a fact at all, but an opinon editorial by a Vanity Fair writer, who just recently was “flipping off” the audience of Bill Maher’s HBO show
#126 Oh dear oh dear, you are making a fool of yourself now…
Try this Lee
September 7th, 2006 at 12:09 pmTerry,
September 7th, 2006 at 12:09 pmWe’re on the same side on that one. I wasn’t very clear about which “claims” I was discussing.
LEE: You really are a fool…
Bushkill: You really are a tool…
“Did you even see F911? I doubt it.”
Many times – wrong again Moonbat.
“Your just another one of those old school right wing rednecks who just cant see that your party doesnt give a shit about you and your blue collar job. WAKE UP AMERICA!”
And you are dishonest lying Moonbat who – like all Moonbats – pulls “facts” out of you anus.
Think for yourself – don’t be a tool and/or a parrot:
Unfairenheit 9/11The lies of Michael Moore. By Christopher Hitchens
Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11
Moore Lies
fahrenheit fact
The Nine Lies of Fahrenheit 9/11
a PDF of Moore’s lies
Sorry to burst your Moonbat bubble.
Comment by BushKill —
September 7th, 2006 at 12:09 pmDrxJ I agree about the name calling, it’s a last resort when losing. I’ve noticed myself doing it in the past. Go easy on Lee, like me, he probably still listens to Hannity. I think Lee’s problem is that he believes every word out of Hannity’s mouth. I like to stick to facts.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:10 pmNeocon jargon: Lies that are discovered to be lies = “mistakes”.
These guys have been turning the English language on it’s head for 6 years.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:11 pmthis should help you, Lee
September 7th, 2006 at 12:12 pmhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/1942/00222
DRxJ
It can also be a case of finding a given subject irritating, or calling a spade a spade. I mean, for someone not to see the difference between a best selling work of fiction and something claiming to be fact?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:13 pmLee,
Well, you’re obsessed with Moore — I’ll give you that.
Here ya go:
September 7th, 2006 at 12:13 pmhttp://www.dailykos.com/search?offset=0&old_count=50&string=debunking+fahrenheit+deceits+&type=diary&sortby=relevance&search=Search&count=50&wayback=1576800&wayfront=0&search_archive=yes
TerrytheTurtle: “Try this Lee”
First, a left wing extremist blog is not a good source
The blog does link to a real story but unfortunately for you it disproves your statement:
“Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president” – By Linda Feldmann Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
Facts trump Moonbat mythology.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:15 pmThis LEE character sounds just like the troll that went by the name IHATELIBERALS…..HMMM
September 7th, 2006 at 12:15 pmThanks for all the right wing web links regarding F911. I just proves how stupid you really are.
Lee,
Do you understand the term “ad hominem”? Because that’s the excuse you’re making for not exposing yourself to new input.
If you’re too much of a coward to even visit Daily Kos, I understand. But I confess to be disappointed.
Once again, wingnuts care nothing for the truth…only for what advances their agenda.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:17 pmI consider it a lie when a President receives conflicting reports on intel, and chooses to only relay the one that supports his hysteria to the American people.
If you want to pretend that didn’t happen then I guess I’ll have to start dredgin up all those old links
September 7th, 2006 at 12:18 pmMisc: “Well, you’re obsessed with Moore — I’ll give you that.”
You are a loon – I only mentioned Moore to point out the Democrat/Moonbat hypocrisy
“Here ya go:
http://www.dailykos.com/ ”
The dailykos is a left wing extremist blog – not a source
Think for yourself – get your information from places other than left wing extremist blogs.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:18 pmAs for your claim that Bush never linked 9/11 and Iraq…come on, Lee. I know you want to maintain SOME credibility here. Are you seriously going to argue that the sun sets in the east?
You have stronger arguments to make. Don’t make yourself look foolish by allowing ego to get in the way of admitting the obvious.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:19 pmLee,
Unlike you, I understand the difference between impeaching a source and impeaching a fact.
It’s painfully obvious that you do not. Your first instinct, when confronted with an uncomfortable fact, is to find a reason to ignore it.
Not exactly a good example of why we should take you seriously when you admonish others to “think for themselves”.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:20 pmThink for yourself – get your information from places other than left wing extremist blogs.
Comment by Lee Hodge — September 7, 2006
Practice what you preach Lee. Get your information from places other than right wing NEO-NAZI(CON) extremist blogs you puke.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:21 pmGreg, I thought I just said that I did read the 9/11 comission report. you’re right… very insightful
September 7th, 2006 at 12:21 pm“get your information from places other than left wing extremist blogs.”
More good comedy from lee.
Where’d you get the term ‘moonbat’ from the mainstream media? From moderate sites?
Of LGF and Malkin?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:21 pmAnAmerican “I consider it a lie when a President receives conflicting reports on intel, and chooses to only relay the one that supports his hysteria to the American people.”
That is not a lie – but thanks for playing.
One must know they are lying for it to be a lie – you are factually incorrect in your attack.
Bill Clinton lied to the American people – he know it was lying
Bush used intellegence that proved to not be correct – that is in no way a lie (unless you wrongly beleive a Weatherman lies when his forcast is not correct) – this happens all time is war.
Read something other than left wing extremist blogs – try studying history of war
September 7th, 2006 at 12:22 pmAlso read the August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief. Also insightful into the knowledge presidents have that we are not privvy to.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:23 pm“That is not a lie – but thanks for playing.”
I consider being mislead a lie, I know you don’t.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:23 pmAs for your claim that Bush never linked 9/11 and Iraq…come on, Lee. I know you want to maintain SOME credibility here. Are you seriously going to argue that the sun sets in the east?
You have stronger arguments to make. Don’t make yourself look foolish by allowing ego to get in the way of admitting the obvious.
Comment by Misc — September 7, 2006 @ 12:19 pm
What you are forget is that during Bush’s speech after 9/11, he said that we would go after nations that harbor or help terrorists. This has been proven to be a fact that Iraq was doing this. Iraq probably is not the best first target but at the time Iran was stepping up thier efforts the way they have recently.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:23 pmGreg,
Whether Bush specifically lied or not is up in the air, but he most certainly misled the American public.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:24 pmAnAmerican,
Ultimately, you’ll never win over the “Lee”’s of the world. They’re too invested in power and party.
What matters is making them put their nuttiness on display for casual readers of the site. And frankly, Lee’s doing a “heck of a job” showing what wingnuts are all about.
He’s “Exhibit A” for wingnut standards. And it isn’t a pretty sight.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:24 pm#145 oh so now you are being dishonest about your own statements:
Lee: “That is Moonbat mythology – nobody claimed Saddam had a connection to the 911 plot. Why do Moonbats lie?”
Terry: posts TP link that leads to the Dick Cheney statement that contacts between Mohammad Atta and Saddam’s intelligence services in Prague were “pretty much confirmed” – ergo Cheney claims Saddam-9/11 link
Lee: The blog does link to a real story but unfortunately for you it disproves your statement: “Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi presidentâ€
That’s not what you said Lee, and I never claimed Bush said it.
Lee, shall I call the fire fighters? Your boxers are smoking.
P.S. First, “a left wing extremist blog is not a good source” and let’s recap your post #136 post about Moore: your links are let’s see, 1 op-ed, and 5, count em 5, right-wing extremist blog sites….. oops, you can’t even remember the things you said 5 mins ago…. oh dear me.
Next troll, please, this one is broken.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:24 pmI don’t want to win over people like Lee, mainly because I have no respect for people who defend the misleading of America.
I want those intelligent enough to know the difference to outnumber the wacked out bushbots, that’s all I want.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:26 pmGreg,
I think most Americans took Bush’s initial speech to mean that we’d go after those who attacked us, not everyone and anyone who is a terrorist. I know that’s what I heard out of the deal.
Regardless, above and beyond a general “nail ‘em if they support terrorists”, Bush has strongly implied, repeatedly, links between 9/11 specifically and Iraq. Others in his administration have done more than imply this link. It’s really not a matter of debate at this point — the quotes are everywhere, and the fact that so many Americans still think Iraq WAS involved in 9/11 is a pretty damning indicator in the final analysis. They got that impression from somewhere.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:27 pmAnAmerican: “get your information from places other than left wing extremist blogs.â€
Golly you like trying to pull “facts” out of you anus.
I got Moonbat from the Wikipedia
Are you going to launch into a Moonbat attack on Wikipedia now?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:27 pmAnAmerican “I consider it a lie when a President receives conflicting reports on intel, and chooses to only relay the one that supports his hysteria to the American people.â€
That is not a lie – but thanks for playing.
Lee,
September 7th, 2006 at 12:28 pmever heard of a “lie of omission”?
Right Lee, you just happened to look up ‘moonbat’ in Wiipedia.
You stumbled upon it by accident.
ROFLMFAO!!!!
September 7th, 2006 at 12:28 pmThere is the GOP activist truth in a nutshell — ..”it was based on nothing at all” -Nowatrash
September 7th, 2006 at 12:29 pmAnAmerican “I don’t want to win over people like Lee, mainly because I have no respect for people who defend the misleading of America.”
I have no respect for you – you parrot factualy incorrect statements and you pull facts out of your anus in an attempt to pretent like you can read minds. You are Moonbat – you are the reason the Democrats keep losing elections.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:29 pmGreg,
Whether Bush specifically lied or not is up in the air, but he most certainly misled the American public.
Comment by nitpicker — September 7, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
Agreed but people on both sides of aisle had this information and voted to do to war. Some I believe voted yes, because they thought it would be like Afganistan, overwith quickly and they look like heros(politicians), protecting our country. Nitpicker, Do you believe there is an enemy and they want us dead?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:29 pmAnAmerican,
September 7th, 2006 at 12:30 pmYeah, that’s pretty believable :)
Americans were never mislead
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/07/new-poll-43-still-believe-saddam-had-something-to-do-with-911/
Uh huh….
September 7th, 2006 at 12:30 pmRight Lee, when you can point to any statements I made that were pulled out of my ass, I’ll give you a sugar cookie.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:31 pmJoneser is Jason Hendler and not worth replying too.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:31 pmAnAmerican “Right Lee, you just happened to look up ‘moonbat’ in Wiipedia. ROFLMFAO!!!!
Laugh clown, laugh
I just crammed your Moonbat attack back down your throat – you are pissed so you have to pretent you can read minds by pulling more crap from your anus.
Moonbats are funny. You are funny.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:32 pmHold on, Lee, I’m stumbling into Wikipedia so I can use the term ‘bushbot’ with authority.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:33 pmGreg,
I think most Americans took Bush’s initial speech to mean that we’d go after those who attacked us, not everyone and anyone who is a terrorist. I know that’s what I heard out of the deal.
Regardless, above and beyond a general “nail ‘em if they support terroristsâ€, Bush has strongly implied, repeatedly, links between 9/11 specifically and Iraq. Others in his administration have done more than imply this link. It’s really not a matter of debate at this point — the quotes are everywhere, and the fact that so many Americans still think Iraq WAS involved in 9/11 is a pretty damning indicator in the final analysis. They got that impression from somewhere.
Comment by Misc — September 7, 2006 @ 12:27 pm
No, that is not was said. In that speech Bush defined the “Axis of Evil”(I even hate saying that), which was obvious at the time not countries directly involved with 9/11.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:34 pmLee Hodge
I have no respect for you because you came straight onto this blog and started insulting people.
Also, I consider declassifying a document in such a manner as to drastically alter its meaning, to be a lie.
I feel the same about telling the American public that you won’t touch social security, and then going on to propose social security reforms. I know that isn’t a lie to do with Iraq, but it is a lie.
Saying that America would hunt Bin Laden down, and then closing the branch of the CIA that actually was supposed to be doing the hunting down, sounds to me, like a lie.
Further when did they prove Iraq was sheltering terrorists during Saddam’s reign? Funny because I am sure I would have heard about that one.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:36 pmAnAmerican “Hold on, Lee, I’m stumbling into Wikipedia so I can use the term ‘bushbot’ with authority. ”
You do like making a fool out of yourself – bushbot does not exist in the Wikipedia – so much for your crediblity
Moonbat are funny. You are funny.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:39 pmbtruthfu “Evidence, Evidence?”
What is this rambling supposed to mean? Evidence for what?
“Oh wait, right wing extremists only trust evidence they fabricate themselves!!!ROTFL!!! ”
btruthfu, you really do like making a fool out of yourself
September 7th, 2006 at 12:42 pmLee, I was hoping Wikipedia would magically open up to bushbot, like it did for you and moonbat.
I waited for like 5 minutes, and nothing.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:42 pmA good definition of ‘bushbot’ can be found here.
The third definition fits Lee particularly well.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:44 pmWhoops…bad link…I’ll try again. ^_^
September 7th, 2006 at 12:45 pmGreg,
Well, the Senate still refuses to complete their investigation of the politicization of the intelligence-gathering process, so we’re not really sure what politicians knew what and when yet.
Do I believe there’s an enemy that wants us dead? There most certainly is an enemy that wants us dead–an authoritarian and theocratic enemy that doesn’t like individual freedoms. However, if we become like them, then what will we have gained in winning?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:46 pmWhat was this thread about, before Lee Hodge derailed it?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:47 pm[...] Throughout the 19th Century, the empire fought many wars, some of them failures, others successes. The one thing the failures had in common was this: Those responsible took responsibility. Lost causes were abandoned, ministers resigned, generals retired, and the only folk peddling revisionist history were the poets. At one time, even I was a casualty of bad decision-making – but that’s another story. [...]
September 7th, 2006 at 12:48 pm#198 I think the thread was about truth and fiction as it relates to 911.
Bushbots are ok with it being a non-fictional 911 report based docudrama and misleading the people.
Moonbats want it to be accurate.
At least that’s what I’m getting from it.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:50 pmTripMaster Monkey: “”What was this thread about, before Lee Hodge derailed it?”
Sorry Monkey, I stuck to the topic of the thread – the Moonbat attackers derailed the thread. Next time, read the thread first.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:51 pmI just crammed your Moonbat attack back down your throat – you are pissed so you have to pretent you can read minds by pulling more crap from your anus.
Comment by Lee Hodge
What is your morbid fascination with the rectal area? Now that you’ve gone to swearing and name calling, you’ve lost any credibility in discussions. Geez, done any good gay bashing lately?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:51 pmKeep digging Moonbat.
Comment by Lee Hodge — September 7, 2006 @ 12:48 pm
Nope Lee, I can’t find any examples of you using Ad-hominums.
None at all.
LOL
September 7th, 2006 at 12:51 pmGreg,
Well, the Senate still refuses to complete their investigation of the politicization of the intelligence-gathering process, so we’re not really sure what politicians knew what and when yet.
Do I believe there’s an enemy that wants us dead? There most certainly is an enemy that wants us dead–an authoritarian and theocratic enemy that doesn’t like individual freedoms. However, if we become like them, then what will we have gained in winning?
Comment by nitpicker — September 7, 2006 @ 12:46 pm
The people that want to us dead will not stop. They value death like we value life. We need to stop fighting a war like we are trying to appease everyone. I don’t think there is any threat to our individual freedoms. Also, with the divisiveness in congress is good. These reports will be more accurate than ever.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:54 pmAnAmerican “Bushbots are ok with it being a non-fictional 911 report based docudrama and misleading the people.”
Wrong again. The 911 report is only one source of info (and many believe it is a whitewashing for Clinton)
AnAmerican wants the show to parrot the Moonbat nonsense rather than the facts
AnAmerican has not seen the ABC 911 show – AnAmerican has no idea what is in the show – AnAmerican is just parroting what the left wing extremist handers say.
You people need to think for yourself.
“Moonbats want it to be accurate.”
Moonbats are funny. You are funny.
September 7th, 2006 at 12:55 pmAnAmerican “Nope Lee, I can’t find any examples of you using Ad-hominums. ”
..and you wonder why you get no respect and nobody takes you seriously
September 7th, 2006 at 12:57 pm“AnAmerican wants the show to parrot the Moonbat nonsense rather than the facts”
Comment by Lee Hodge — September 7, 2006 @ 12:55 pm
You making things up again? You’ll never find one example of me wanting anything other then the facts in this clarified, further clarified, and even further clarified docudrama.
But hey, you’re a bushbot, so, you have to make some stuff up, right?
September 7th, 2006 at 12:57 pmDRxJ – “What is your morbid fascination with the rectal area?
Not sure what you are talking about – I am not the one pulling “facts” from that area.
I guess this is a bit of “shoot the messenger”
September 7th, 2006 at 12:59 pmHow many times will America allow these fanatics to send our troops to war for armageddon? How many Quayles and Rev. Hagees, Rushdoonies, Norths, Falwells, Leedens, Kristols, Perles and Robertsons are we going to allow to kill troops for this Armageddon that happened back in 70 AD?
How many more wars and iinocent people must die, over decades and hundreds of years to suit these peoples mad desire to find Jesus thru death and wanton destruction?
How many accumulated deaths equal one Armageddon?
==
in contrast with all this, Quayle campaigned as a “Vietnam-era veteran” and a warmonger of apocalyptic proportions. He once told a gathering of fundamentalist preachers that a nuclear war “would hurry Jesus’s second coming” [fn 44] During the Gulf crisis and the Iraq war of 1990-91, Quayle was the principal voice in the Bush Administration threatening the use of nuclear weapons by the United States against Baghdad. This points to Quayle’s important role in cementing Bush’s own Armageddon connection to the apocalyptic-millenarian strata among the Protestant evangelical fundamentalists.
==
Armageddon did not happen in 2000, the Y2k bug did not send mankind into madness, 6-6-2006 did not, as Anne Coulter fearfully predicted, become and end time, August 22 2006 did not become an end time. Fukuyama also spoke of the end times as many other neo-cons.
The messiah did not come during the six day war, the messiah did not come in the recent Israeli war, the messiah did not come during the caliphate, the messiah did not come during the civil war, the messiah did not come in WWI or WWII, the messiah did not come when 60,000 people died in vietnam, the messiah did not comewhen stalin killed a million christians, the messiah did not come during the holocaust.
I am disappointed in mankind as a whole, because a small percentage of these people have a belief in such a scenarios and they repeatedly send people to their deaths for their ideology, an ideology that only about 30 million Americans follow today.
Yet they continue to wish and hope and pray for death of an entire nations, ethnic cleansing in effect, and the people who do not follow this Ideology suffer the most, again and again. They do not follow the end times scenario.
These people push their ideology unto others by killing them needlessly for the return of some mythical Ideology. Worse some of our very leaders also follow this same inane belief.
They in effect come sociopaths whom do not care about life but care about creating death.
I am so dissapointed in those whom call themselves Christians and whom allow themselves to be duped into such mendacity.
Know this, He whom does the evil of God shall suffer greatly.
Man does not do the work of God, It is his evil and not yours. If God decides to destroy the panet it will be thru earthquakes storms, typhoons, tsunamis, hurricanes and comets impacting the earth..not thru man killing man, not thru man sacrificing childrem, not thru prayers for the death of others, not thru wars and not thru politicians.
Stop that what you do Man. Do not do his evil, it is not yours to do.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:00 pmDRxJ “Now that you’ve gone to swearing”
Please do not turn to lying – you are losing all credibility
“Geez, done any good gay bashing lately?”
DRxJ, you have lost all credibility – your statement is despicable.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:03 pmOkay, lets all just ignore Lee Hodge and go back to arguing about this new documentary shall we? It isn’t like listening to the barking of lap-dogs is going to make us any wiser.
My take on the whole thing is that it is unnacceptable. It is taking a highly emotive event in America’s history, which a lot of people remember in much the same manner as the death of Kennedy, and then tried to shovel blame for it onto the previous Administration using what amounts to a pack of lies. Making shit up does not impress me on this issue, and I am sure most people agree with me on that.
That this movie is being marketted with learning aids to America’s schools is basically sick. That the publishers have not seen fit to send a copy to the people it depicts as the culprits, is more then sick it is cowardly. That the writer by the sounds of it hadn’t even bothered to talk to the Clinton officials who were there at the time of the events depicted is a sign of willful reckless disregard for the truth.
At least Michael Moore tried to interview the people he was calling villains.
That it is being released by the exact same network that refused to air Farenheit 9/11 over much the same issues that have been raised by us on this docudrama is worse then all of the above. It is hypocrisy.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:03 pmIsn’t it funny when Michael Moore changes the facts to fit his agenda it is OK. Fahrenheit 9/11, has been shown time and again to be riddled with outright lies. Try reading some real objective websites, an example would be factcheck.org. Basically, if you put it if you put it on paper on the screen, some people will accept it as fact.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:05 pm==
I have not endorsed Moores film..I watched it and I knew that it had some errors, but you hit the nail on the head,“Basically, if you put it if you put it on paper on the screen, some people will accept it as fact.” Moores film will not be used as a Scholastic aid and neither should this one by the GOP activists. I don’t care if people want to watch crappy movies, the worls is full of crappy misleading movies. We are a free society because we allow crappy movies, we should not allow any crappy movie into institutions of learning. Period.
Hey IHATELIBERALS…opps I mean LEE HODGEPODGE
So you think you can read minds – never said I was conservative
Keep digging Moonbat.
Comment by Lee Hodge — September 7, 2006 @
THEN IF YOUR NOT A CONSERVATIVE than what the hell are you
September 7th, 2006 at 1:06 pmYou keep spewing rhetoric from the right.
IF IT LOOKs Like a jack-ass, talks like a jack-ass then…… YOU Know the rest ”MOONBAT”LEE!
#35 thanks for the list of supporters of this mockumentary. We’ll boycott them as well.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:06 pmBruce Gorton: “Okay, lets all just ignore Lee Hodge [bashing] and go back to arguing about this new documentary shall we?”
Yes, can you stop bashing me because you don’t like my opinion – that is not the topic of the thread. Present your case – don’t just attack people that don’t agree with you.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:07 pmIsn’t it funny when Michael Moore changes the facts to fit his agenda it is OK. Fahrenheit 9/11, has been shown time and again to be riddled with outright lies. Try reading some real objective websites, an example would be factcheck.org. Basically, if you put it if you put it on paper on the screen, some people will accept it as fact.
==
I have not endorsed Moores film..I watched it and I knew that it had some errors, but you hit the nail on the head,“Basically, if you put it if you put it on paper on the screen, some people will accept it as fact.†Moores film will not be used as a Scholastic aid and neither should this one by the GOP activists. I don’t care if people want to watch crappy movies, the worls is full of crappy misleading movies. We are a free society because we allow crappy movies, we should not allow any crappy movie into institutions of learning. Period.
Comment by Trinary Suka — September 7, 2006 @ 1:05 pm
Great point Trinary. I am old enough to remember that when Amityville Horror came out, they claimed that was a true story. It has been on television but they don’t use it in schools for some kind of instruction.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:08 pmBushKill: “THEN IF YOUR NOT A CONSERVATIVE than what the hell are you”
What the heck does that have to do with the topic of this thread?
Don’t blame me for hijacking this thread…
Anybody with a moniker of “BushKill” is not he brightest blub
What? Too scared to use your real name?
Stop with your bashing and get back to the topic of the thread.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:12 pmGreat point Trinary. I am old enough to remember that when Amityville Horror came out, they claimed that was a true story. It has been on television but they don’t use it in schools for some kind of instruction. –Greg
September 7th, 2006 at 1:12 pm==
Thanks Greg.
And you make a good point as well.
Lee Hodge sez:
Excerpts from previous Hodge posts:
(There’s more, but i started to get nauseous…)
Anyway…pot, meet kettle.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:19 pmDRxJ – “What is your morbid fascination with the rectal area?
Not sure what you are talking about – I am not the one pulling “facts†from that area.
I guess this is a bit of “shoot the messengerâ€
Comment by Lee Hodge
Well, judging from your past posts, “shoot the messenger” must be some kinky new repubican (not a typo) sex position.
Morning all!
September 7th, 2006 at 1:22 pmAgain LEE doesnt PRATICE WHAT HE PREACHES!
September 7th, 2006 at 1:23 pmTHanks Trip MAster Monkey
Wow…looks like I got Lee Hodge to shut up.
More likely, his mom caught him on the computer again… ^_^
September 7th, 2006 at 1:30 pm#129 coachjason
Lee, as a fellow Republican, you better slow down…
…I believe you need to do some more research before you try to argue with the “moonbatsâ€. They are wrong sometimes… but they are right a lot too.
Coachjason, I take back all those horrible things I said about you.
We don’t have to agree all the time if we can at least be respectful and openminded.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:35 pmGreg,
You wrote that our enemies, “value death like we value life.” There’s the rub, my friend. If all you value is earthly life then you are doomed to lose everything you value. As Americans, we should realize that breathing is not enough. We should not value simple life, but the principles–freedom foremost among them–that make life worth living. Yet, those on your side of the aisle suggest that we have to give freedom up in order to live or, in the case of Dinesh D’Souza, we should quit abusing our freedoms so the terrorists will leave us alone. It’s pitiful. If American freedoms are gone, America is gone, too, no matter how many flag-wavers remain.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:45 pmRe: 228, I meant to say NOT the real definition of a NeoCon, sometimes I think faster than I type!
September 7th, 2006 at 1:49 pmWe call on the American people to remember how we all felt on 9/11, to remember not only the unspeakable horror but how we came together as a nation-one nation. Unity of purpose and unity of effort are the way we will defeat this enemy and make America safer for our children for our children and our grandchildren
September 7th, 2006 at 1:54 pmgreat excerpt from the 9/11 comission report.
coachjason
I am a Liberal Atheist African (South African to be exact) and I respect you and your views. You don’t strike me as what I would call a good Christian or a good conservative instead you strike me as being what I would call a good person. The Christian thing is just a label, as is calling you a conservative; the person thing is who you are.
September 7th, 2006 at 1:58 pmGreg,
You wrote that our enemies, “value death like we value life.†There’s the rub, my friend. If all you value is earthly life then you are doomed to lose everything you value. As Americans, we should realize that breathing is not enough. We should not value simple life, but the principles–freedom foremost among them–that make life worth living. Yet, those on your side of the aisle suggest that we have to give freedom up in order to live or, in the case of Dinesh D’Souza, we should quit abusing our freedoms so the terrorists will leave us alone. It’s pitiful. If American freedoms are gone, America is gone, too, no matter how many flag-wavers remain.
Comment by nitpicker — September 7, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
You still have to realize to be effective against terrorism, there has to be a modification of tactics. We can not fight the war abroad like we did in WWII. Hence we cannot fight the war domestically without some adjustments. Even with some what some would say are questionable tactics, I have not seen any innocent person say that thier civil rights have been violated. Even historically civil rights have been adjusted depending on the circumstances domestically. Living in Free society does not entitle people freedom to do whatever. That is call anarchy. We as a society decide what freedoms we have or even do not have. No matter what, our freedoms are way beyond other countries in the world.
September 7th, 2006 at 2:18 pmHow about that scene in the movie where Bush is shown that Aug. 6th PDB? Oh yeah, I forgot, that has nothing to do with the “Path” to 9-11. Oh yeah and Cyrus is fighting his own holy war right here in the US, with our TV networks.
September 7th, 2006 at 2:20 pmWe should not value simple life, but the principles–freedom foremost among them–that make life worth living. Yet, those on your side of the aisle suggest that we have to give freedom up in order to live or, in the case of Dinesh D’Souza, we should quit abusing our freedoms so the terrorists will leave us alone.
Thats a rather indefensible argument, you seem to forget that Bush has done more to weaken the very constitution that holds our democracy together, Also I would like to point out that many of the Fundamentalist see war and death as a way to bring about Armegeddon. They care about life only if it is their own and actually work to create more wars so they can be ’saved’. Note my post above about Dan ‘Armageddon’ Quayle whom, like many other GOP want to kill hundred of thousand of people for their ideology, one that I don’t follow.
Bush and his Ilk started these wars of death and destruction.
Now what were you saying about the ailes?
It is your ‘Side’ of the aisle that embraces death and removes your rights, they are running this tragicomic bus wreck and not the Democrats.
==
DataUSA IncRIDGEPORT, Conn. (AP)_ The owner of a company that had done political and public opinion polls for several candidates has pleaded guilty to fraud for making up survey and poll results.
Tracy Costin, 46, of Madison pleaded guilty Wednesday before U.S. District Judge Janet C. Hall to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
Costin owned and operated DataUSA Inc., a survey and polling firm with offices in West Haven and Guilford.
September 7th, 2006 at 2:34 pmDing Ding…..
Break….back to your respective corners….
lol
September 7th, 2006 at 2:35 pmGreg
If their were innocent American victims do you really think the Whitehouse would advertise them? Because their are a lot of foreigners who have fallen victim. Also a few reporters, the illegal wiretaps were as much to deter anybody in the Whitehouse talking to reporters as anything.
There is a definite need to change strategies, make no mistake, but the question is, if changing strategies means giving up the US Constitution and everything that the US stands for, what is there left to defend?
The way to beat Islamic terrorism is actually to fight its supply chain, and that supply chain is the same as America’s, it is in oil. If America can develop alternative fuels that are more economic then oil, what does the Middle East have left? They don’t have a highly educated workforce, they don’t have much in the way of resources other then oil, and they aren’t exactly stable.
Unfortunately you can’t just go in and take the the stuff. Iraq has demonstrated that much at least, America cannot afford it and frankly nobody wants one nation in control of the world’s oil. Put serious funding into developing an alternative and Osama’s organisation will die. This is what Bush said he was going to do, but he didn’t do it.
There are more benefits to taking global warming seriously then just keeping the weather nice after all.
Another change must come in America’s foreign policy. Selling nuclear technology to the Indians was stupid. Point blank stupid. Read up a bit on the history of Pakistan and India, and you will see what I mean, that Pakistan has now declared itself neutral to the Taliban is no surprise, America sold Pakistan’s chief enemy in the region nuclear technology in contravention of the NPT. America needs to change to a foreign policy that takes the interrelationships of other nations into account otherwise you will continue to allienate your allies and enlarge the size of your enemies.
You need to drop the philosophy of their being an Axis of Evil. All the Axis of Evil does, is unite your enemies against you. The idea is to divide and conquor, a united enemy is a tougher enemy to fight, and I do not like how skittish the North Koreans are right now.
You need to find a way to break free of the macho BS of war and start thinking about how to handle your enemies without having to use brute force.
September 7th, 2006 at 2:47 pm# 251 Greg, are you kidding? The reason you may not have seen “any innocent person say that thier civil rights have been violated,” is either because the media barely reports it or because you aren’t paying attention. Didn’t you hear about the thousands of Arab men rounded up after 9/11 just for being young, Arab and male, nearly all of whom were released without charges? Or the prisoners being held indefinitely without access to lawyers, with no right of habeus corpus? Or the nuns who have participated in anti-war demonstrations finding themselves on no-fly lists? How about the FBI sending infiltrators to the meetings of local peace groups? And let’s not forget the tens of thousands (if not more) of Americans whose phone calls have been intercepted illegally? No one here promotes anarchy, but you don’t seem to mind as we inch towards a full-fledged police state! You may feel comfortable going on “faith” that the Bushies won’t overreach and trample our civil rights, but the rest of us don’t trust them as far as we can throw them! Remember what Ben Franklin said, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
September 7th, 2006 at 2:47 pm#263 – Jose Padilla – QED
September 7th, 2006 at 2:59 pm#262 – “You need to find a way to break free of the macho BS of war and start thinking about how to handle your enemies without having to use brute force.” – Comment by Bruce Gorton
*********WHAT AN EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!!!!!!
September 7th, 2006 at 3:05 pm#262- “You need to find a way to break free of the macho BS of war and start thinking about how to handle your enemies without having to use brute force.” – Comment by Bruce Gorton
******Dear Bruce – Such and EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!! Might I suggest you just invite the poor, offended, misunderstood Islamists for a “sit down” – and we’ll negotiate with them. We’ll study their culture more and be more sensitive to their feelings. We’ll learn to respect the misquoted teachings of the Koran. Afterwards, they can show you just how they want you to wear that tail between your legs – should you live so long….
September 7th, 2006 at 3:29 pmBruce Gorton – #267 was not a real TerrytheTurtle post. Thinkprogress, Mighty Aphrodite is apparently impersonating other posters – check the IPs and the post #267 and #268.
Get stuffed Aphrodite, you scumbag.
September 7th, 2006 at 3:49 pmNo shit…hoisted on your own petard, MA.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:00 pmmighty aphrodite
While I recognise that you actually like the sound of children screaming in terror, and you love the smell of burning human flesh in the morning, I must respectfully point at that you have demonstrated via your own postings that you are batshit insane, and therefore not really worth the time, or the effort, it would take to argue with you.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:02 pmAnyone who uses another poster’s name in a post should be banned from TP for a week.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:13 pm[...] Today on MSNBC, right-wing commentator Frank Gaffney cited a made-up scene in The Path To 9/11, in which former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger allegedly refuses to give an order to the CIA to take out bin Laden. 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean was forced to acknowledge the scene was fictionalized and the writer of the film, Cyrus Nowrasteh, said it was “improvised.” [...]
September 7th, 2006 at 4:14 pmAnyone who uses another poster’s name should be banned from TP for a week. The potentual for causing turf wars is too high if actions like this are allowed to continue.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:17 pm# 251 Greg, are you kidding? The reason you may not have seen “any innocent person say that thier civil rights have been violated,†is either because the media barely reports it or because you aren’t paying attention. Didn’t you hear about the thousands of Arab men rounded up after 9/11 just for being young, Arab and male, nearly all of whom were released without charges? Or the prisoners being held indefinitely without access to lawyers, with no right of habeus corpus? Or the nuns who have participated in anti-war demonstrations finding themselves on no-fly lists? How about the FBI sending infiltrators to the meetings of local peace groups? And let’s not forget the tens of thousands (if not more) of Americans whose phone calls have been intercepted illegally? No one here promotes anarchy, but you don’t seem to mind as we inch towards a full-fledged police state! You may feel comfortable going on “faith†that the Bushies won’t overreach and trample our civil rights, but the rest of us don’t trust them as far as we can throw them! Remember what Ben Franklin said, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.â€
Comment by wonkgrrl — September 7, 2006 @ 2:47 pm
Yes I know about all of them I have seen articles, young Arab men rounded all were here illegally. They should be rounded up. Not all muslims are terrorist but the majority of terrorist sure seem to be muslim. The media is overwelmingly Democrats and Liberal, the polls have proven that to be a fact. If it has not been report heavily it is because it must not be that serious, the media would do anything to get more dirt on the Bush Admin. Held indefinitely, are we talking about Jose Padilla, suspected terrorist, illegal enemy combatant, gang member. Enough said there. Illegal wiretaps, been going on since your buddy clinton was in office. Wiretaps were between people here and calling outside the country to suspected terrorist. Lets wait and see if we can get a warrant from FISA and let it be leaked. Because of several leaks, many terrorist have changed their methods of communications. Liberty, How do you feel about gun control and the second admendment?
September 7th, 2006 at 4:36 pmBruce
Sorry but brute force make the world go around. It always has always will. The terrorist have bombed places all over the world that does not agree with them. Just listen to speeches give by the terrorist nations leaders. They want us wiped off the earth no matter what and are willing to do whatever is necessary. I agree we need to get off the oil drip. Yes Bush talked about it but it will never happen overnight. We have to make some hard choices by allowing Nuke plants to be built, wind farms, ethonal and drilling where necessary etc…. These won’t be enought but it will be a start. The same people who are against the war are against these some of these technologies also. We also have to encourage more train use, stop building new roads, we can’t maintain the ones we have. Use the money for new technology and mass transit. Odd coming from a conservative.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:50 pmGreg
Even Rush Limbaugh has admitted that the “Liberal Media” is a myth. It is something which conservative leaders made up, so that you wouldn’t pay attention to the news right in front of you. I am a foreigner I see American News as international news, and I can tell you you are not being informed.
The guys who own the media, who own the newspapers, the broadcasters etc… are guys like Disney, they are overwhelmingly Republican and do you really think a reporter who is overly biased against the Republicans is going to get his story aired? Hell Fox at one point fired two of its reporters for reporting the truth on hormones being used in American cattle.
And lastly, so a lot of Islamic terrorists are Muslims? Need I remind you how many White Supremists are white? Hell out here in South Africa? Our biggest terrorist threat is the AWB, and they are regte boere (White, blonde, blue eyed, and wear khaki shorts with a comb in their sock.) In England there was a long period in which most terrorist acts were being carried out by the Irish. Would you accept South Africa rounding up Afrikaaners at random and holding them without trial? Or England doing that to the Irish? Why should anybody accept America doing that to Muslims?
You cannot just round up one population group and stick them in concentration camps. That is Nazi shit, that is precisely what the Nazis to the Jews before sticking them in gas ovens. You need to get a grip and figure out that there are other ways of handling this.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:54 pmGreg
Brute force is used by the stupid, who don’t realise that strategy actually counts for something. America dropped more bombs on Vietnam then were dropped in WWII. America lost the Vietnam war. Brute force does not work, you need to actually think about how to apply that force, and what better forces you can bring to bare. If you are just going to go around hitting people eventually everyone will get annoyed, turn around and annihilate you. This is what happened to Nazi Germany, they attacked people, they kept on attacking people, then got the crap beaten out of them.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:57 pmGreg sez:
I see you’re still laboring under the fiction of the ‘liberal media’ that has been propogated so well by the neocons…truly one of their most effective lies.
You’d think that this whole ‘Path to 9/11′ flap would finally put the lie to that old chestnut once and for all, but apparently, there’s quite a few people out there who aren’t sufficiently concious enough to put two and two together.
I’d address the rest of your post, but it’s pretty much in the same ill-informed vein. I’m sure someone else will pick up the slack.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:00 pmTripMaster Monkey: “(There’s more, but i started to get nauseous…)”
Monkey, nice of you to leave out all the attacks on me – twist and distort like good Moonbat.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:03 pmBruce Gorton “Even Rush Limbaugh has admitted that the “Liberal Media†is a myth.”
Really – when did this happen?
Heard him on Glen Beck talking about the liberal media today.
Are you making stuff up?
CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, New York Times – that is the liberal media and only a Moonbat would deny the slant. CBS even used fake documents to try and get a Republican!!!!!
If you are a liberal, you may be blinded by the left and assume everything slanted left is normal. If you are a Euro-Weenies, this is extremely likely.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:10 pmLee Hodge. We know precisely what you neocons stand for, and it is neither particularly new, nor conservative. The NP in South Africa stood for much the same. So did Stalin, so did Mussolini, so did Hitler. You stand for fear. You stand for the idea that it is better to be feared then respected, loved, or honoured.
You believe in torture, not even as an information gathering tool but as a tool of punishment. We know this because of the fact that it is always a neocon that will argue in its favour, and never a neocon who brings up how unreliable a information gathering device it is.
You stand for the abolition of all American treaties with other countries. Indeed you stand for those other countries treating you like masters and paying you tribute. We know this because it is always a neocon that can be relied upon to defend America breaking its treaties, and treating its allies, neutrals and enemies like shit. We know this because we have seen Michael Bolton.
You stand for the abolition of human rights within America. We know this because it is always a neocon that excuses such rights as privacy, free speech (when it inconveniences them) and dignity being trampled.
You believe in a president whose powers are unrestricted by laws, or even common responsiblity, we know this because it is always a neocon that preaches that the president is above the law.
You believe in religion, as nothing more then a political tool. We know this because your side has grown so adept at thumping the bible while lying about its contents, and sanctifying your unconscionable. We know this because you use it so well against homosexuals, and forget so easily in your arguments in favour of nuking Iran.
We know you by your arguments Hodge, we know you by your government, and we know you by your governments actions. Your beliefs are nothing, your ends are nothing, and the means you will use to achieve them? Terrible. You are evil, and it is up to Liberals, and honest Conservatives whose face you have stolen, to stop you.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:21 pmGreg-Did I see that correctly? You are perfectly ok with jose padilla’s case? a us citizen who was arrested and held in a military brig for three years and then was only charged with a minor financing offence to prevent his habeas corpus case being heard in scotus? as ben franklin points out – you don’t deserve to be a us citizen if you will stand by and see another lose his right to a speedy trial and access to counsel.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:24 pmBtw- please check yourself into to your nearest homeland security office – we’d like to hold you until we can find out what it is you’ve done or until we change the law to make what you’ve already done a crime. thanks much.
Oh joy. Lee Hodge is back.
Disregarding for just a momentythe obvious contradiction to that statement that ABC’s Path to 9/11 presents, it still sounds like someone needs to educate themselves.
Now, Lee, I know that the funny distorted faces of your heroes at the top of this page are going to send you into a self-righteous right-wing hissy fit, but when you calm down, I’d like you to scroll down the page and take a look at the facts presented. When you’re done, come on back and talk to us about the ‘liberal media’. Kthx.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:27 pmBruce Gorton: “basically going with shit on a level of “I know you are but what am I.†Something which I find boring.”
That is what I said – almost word for word – thanks for repeating it,
“Personally I think this is precisely what you wanted.”
Oh goody, another mind-reader wannabee
“I think you are a classic troll who is out to disrupt any real discussion”
If not goose-stepping to the Moonbat party line disrupts you – that is your problem. So now the name-calling turns to the term “troll†– that usually happens when you run out of material.
“and I think basically you don’t know shit”
Another bold baseless unsupported accusation from a Moonbat – what is new?
“You have chosen to ignore the debunk of your debunk”
There was no debunk – you are making stuff up again.
“yet you fail to recognize that your debunk is from a rightwing source”
What debunk – I did not try to debunk anything – what are you rambling about – pure nonsense
“You are either stupid, or just out to try and derail the thread.”
And you are an Ad Hominem spewing, name-calling, nonsense spewing Moonbat who has completely and totally failed to support ANY of your claims.
“Believe it or not whether Bush lied or not is not the issue at hand”
Good – because he didn’t. Doesn’t mean I agree what Bush is doing – but he did not lie.
“and frankly, with all the evidence that keeps on coming out since the event he eitheir did or is a complete imbecile”
That is your personal opinion
“the issue is Path to 9/11. Now can we please get back to arguing the topic?”
I begged you earlier to get back to the subject but you thought you needed to detail the thread into an Ad Hominem name-calling attack in me.
None of you have seen “Path to 9/11″ so stop pretending like you have.
The overheated response by the Clintonittes to a made for TV movie sure seems to expose the frailness of the Clinton Legacy.
From what I hear – there are a couple sequences are in question (but the underlying facts are correct) – so why the big deal by Democrats – I think it is easy to understand – the movies is likely going to make it clear the enemy is Islamofascists and not Bush (and that is pretty much all the Democrats are running on this year). The movie will also point out it is childish and asinine to try and blame it all on Bush – and that is what the Democrats are trying to run on this year.
That is why the Democrats are against free speech and are trying to censor a TV show – IMHO
Gorton, I hope you are finished with the personal attacks on me – they add nothing to the debate.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:35 pmTripMaster Monkey: “Disregarding for just a momentythe obvious contradiction to that statement that ABC’s Path to 9/11 presents, it still sounds like someone needs to educate themselves.”
You have not seen Path to 9/11 so stop pretending like you have.
From what I hear, Republicans don’t like the movie because it makes Richard Clarke out to be the big hero. You really should see the movies before you comment on it. Parroting is pointless
“Now, Lee, I know that the funny distorted faces of your heroes at the top of this page are going to send you into a self-righteous right-wing hissy fit”
That does not even make sense – Monkey, you are rambling incoherently
September 7th, 2006 at 5:39 pm#163 – Lee you are a liar.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:46 pmLee Hodge sez:
No, just someone who’s observant enough to deduce your intent from your actions. If I see a person douse a building in gasoline, strike a match, and run away, I don’t need to be a ‘mind reader’ to assume he’s an arsonist.
No, Lee, the term ‘troll’ usually comes out when the troll (that is, to say, you) runs out of material, and is reduced to arguing for the sake of being argumentative.
In case you missed it, Lee, here you go.
(And don’t grouse about it being on DailyKos, either….this summary dismissal of the material based on the sourcce is getting old. If you want to take issue with it, take issue with the facts, not the website on which the facts are posted.)
Perhaps you don’t remember these prior posts:
#100
#136
(You might want to consider learning how to use the scroll wheel.)
There’s more, but it’s giving me a headache to even read it…I think it’s killing brain cells.
So, let’s just go with what we have. Lee, care to respond?
September 7th, 2006 at 5:53 pmAnd MA is a scumbag and Greg is a fascist. My work is done. Good night and good luck.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:54 pmTrip – might I point you post #163. Lee’s use of rightwing opinion sites to attack Michael Moore was hilarious. Where did the clever trolls go? At least the ones who could keep track of their lies as they posted.
September 7th, 2006 at 5:58 pmLee Hodge sez:
First of all, I’m not ‘pretending I’ve seen the movie’. Keep your straw men out of our discussion.
Second, it’s not necessary to actually see the movie in order to know the content, you dolt. This seems to be the rallying cry of all you reighwingnuts. According to your logic, the Bush Doctrine of seeking out terrorists before they become a threat is fatally flawed, as unless you actually allowed the terrorists to commit their actions, you couldn’t know their intent. You can’t have it both ways, idiot…decide which way you want it, and stick to it.
Wow…you didn’t even make it to the part where I asked you to read the faacts presented, let alone make the leap of actually doing that, did you???
Willful ignorance…the defining characteristic of the reighwingnut. Lee, you’re a perfect specimin.
September 7th, 2006 at 6:02 pmTerrytheTurtle sez:
I don’t know, Terry, but I positively pine for Seixon. He, at least, presented a challenge. ^_^
September 7th, 2006 at 6:04 pmTerrytheTurtle “That’s not what you said Lee, and I never claimed Bush said it.”
Can you provide REAL evidence that somebody claimed Iraq was connected to the 9/11 planning as a reason for the Iraq war – that is the statement you are trying to defend?
Didn’t think so. Repeating mythology does not make it true
“Lee, shall I call the fire fighters? Your boxers are smoking.”
Because you can’t support you claims? Don’t think so
“P.S. First, “a left wing extremist blog is not a good source†and let’s recap your post #136 post about Moore: your links are let’s see, 1 op-ed, and 5, count em 5, right-wing extremist blog sites….. oops, you can’t even remember the things you said 5 mins ago…. oh dear me.”
You are a liar. Only one of the links is a blog – do you understand what a blog is? As for right wing extremist – care to provide evidence to support that totally unsupported claim? Don’t think so.
Run alone, you tried to twist and distort and you failed.
September 7th, 2006 at 6:13 pmMonkey: “First of all, I’m not ‘pretending I’ve seen the movie’. Keep your straw men out of our discussion”
So now you admit you don’t know anything about Path to 9/11 except what you are told to parrot?
“Second, it’s not necessary to actually see the movie in order to know the content”
What – you pretent you understand it or you parrot what your handler tell you to – either way you don’t know what you are taking about.
“This seems to be the rallying cry of all you reighwingnuts”
Mind-reading again – when facts support your view, you can always pretent you can mind-read.
“According to your logic, the Bush Doctrine of seeking out terrorists before they become a threat is fatally flawed”
You are dilusional – I have never stated my position on that subject
“Wow…you didn’t even make it to the part where I asked you to read the faacts presented”
That would be hard since no “faacts” were presented.
September 7th, 2006 at 6:21 pmTerrytheTurtle: Lee’s use of rightwing opinion sites to attack Michael Moore was hilarious.
Which of those sites are you claiming is a “rightwing opinion site” – didn’t realize Slate was rightwing opinion site?
You do like making a fool out of yourself by making stuff up – seems you would have known better.
Terry, You are not a very cleaver troll.
September 7th, 2006 at 6:33 pmMonkey sez: No, just someone who’s observant enough to deduce your intent from your actions. If I see a person douse a building in gasoline, strike a match, and run away, I don’t need to be a ‘mind reader’ to assume he’s an arsonist.
Since you did not “see” me make any statements of which you are claiming knowledge – you are either making stuff up or pretending you can mind-read.
“(And don’t grouse about it being on DailyKos, either….this summary dismissal of the material based on the sourcce is getting old. If you want to take issue with it, take issue with the facts, not the website on which the facts are posted.)”
Dailykos is not a source – it is a very extremist left wing blog – the site cheered the death of innocent American workers in Iraq (claiming falsely they were mercenaries) Dailykos has no credibility except among Moonbats
Get a real source – not extremist left wing opinion
“Perhaps you don’t remember these prior posts:#100 #136″
I was not debunking anything – just pointing out lies.
“(You might want to consider learning how to use the scroll wheel.)”
You might want to actually read the thread before you make silly comments
“I think it’s killing brain cells.”
Seems clear you have none to spare
September 7th, 2006 at 6:43 pmMore fun facts to piss off the Moonbats:
8/29/04
September 7th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Lee – you fail to hold yourself to the standards that you hold others to. You are a liar. I referred to hitchens slate piece as an op-ed and made no comment about slate. your remaining sites were of a similar class (being generous) to TP – which you classed yourself as ‘extremist’. I showed you real evidence that cheney linked atta to saddams intelligence. do you deny he said that? liar. you don’t even have the human decency to disappear. you’ve been exposed as a liar, lee. nothing you say changes that.
September 7th, 2006 at 8:04 pmTerrytheTurtle: “Lee – you fail to hold yourself to the standards that you hold others to. You are a liar”
That is pretty funny – I quoted you – lets do it again:
TerrytheTurtle: “Lee’s use of rightwing opinion sites to attack Michael Moore was hilarious.”
The joke was on you – the first reference is from Slate – you made the statement.
Can’t weasel out of your own statement.
September 7th, 2006 at 8:21 pmer lee – check your list of posts and once again the post that left you ‘twisting in the wind’ #163 – one op-ed and 5 right-wing sites by the standards you established for ‘leftwing extremism’.
September 7th, 2006 at 9:56 pmIs that it? Your ‘argument’ is “i know i’m one but so are you”. Puerile debating skills indeed. You’ve been out of your league all day sonny. You are a hypocrite and a liar. Come back and try again when this makes sense to you.
TerrytheTurtle “You are a hypocrite and a liar.”
Yeah, whatever – I crammed you own words down your throat and now all you can do is spew insults. The only one lying seems to be you. But please – keep digging your hole. You claim five of the sites are “right wing†site – can you prove that statement? Didn’t think so. Time for you to run alone – all you are doing is making yourself look silly.
You are funny.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:06 pm[...] Path to 9/11 Writer Admits Controversial Scene Was ‘Improvised,’ ‘Accidents Occur’ [...]
September 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pm[...] ABC is marketing its docudrama, The Path to 9/11, as “based on the 9/11 Commission Report.” But yesterday, writer Cyrus Nowrasteh admitted that the film’s most controversial scene was based on nothing at all. Nowrasteh told a radio station that the scene was “improvised.”read more | digg story Digg this [...]
September 8th, 2006 at 3:05 amLee Hodge I checked my quote, you are correct I had gotten my Pundits crossed (They tend to blur into one amorpheus blob after a while.)
The guy who actually said it, and how?
”
September 8th, 2006 at 4:33 am
[...] ABC is coming under fire for its soon to be aired docudrama The Path to 9/11. ABC Entertainment President Steve McPherson claims that it is vital that the show be accurate. The show’s creator, however, is admitting that many scenes are composed from different sources, and one scene was completely improvised on the set. All of this controversy has supposedly led to a letter from former President Bill Clinton’s attorney demanding that the show be pulled until all of the errors are corrected. Sounds to me like ABC has a hit on their hands, regardless of the truth of it. People will watch it just because it is controversial. [...]
September 8th, 2006 at 7:30 am[...] In an attempt to obliterate from the mind of American voters the fact that post-9/11 the Bush administration had Osama bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora and let him escape, this pseudo-documentary literally creates out of whole cloth a scene in which a CIA agent places a phone call to seek approval to kill Bin Laden, then in his sights, only to have a senior Clinton administration official refuse and hang up the phone. [...]
September 8th, 2006 at 2:30 pmA small point about Cyrus Nowrasteh’s credentials. . .
A number of bloggers and other commentators have alluded to some special insight into Middle Eastern affairs, and thus into the events of 911, conferred by his Iranian background. Nowrasteh graduated from the USC film school in 1977, which means he was born circa 1956. Where? In Boulder, Colorado, say all the sources, and he was raised in Madison, Wisconsin. He has told friendly interviewers that his family fled Iran in 1979.
What puzzles me is the location of his family, by which I suppose he means his parents, between the mid-fifties and 1979. Were they in Iran? If so they could not have been in Colorado and Wisconsin providing their son with an “Iranian background.” Were they in this country? If so, why return to Iran, only to have to emigrate again with the fall of the Shah? And if so, the specifically Iranian background they could provide their son would arise, not from experience with an Islamic republic, but with a monarchy notorious for its love of the rich and its disdain for the poor. Or did they come and go between Iran and the United States during those 24 or 25 years? In any event, Iran is not an Arab country, and Iranians had nothing to do with 911, so Cyrus Nowrasteh’s parentage gives him no more insight into the Arab mind or into 911 than the fact that my father was brought up in Erie, Pennsylvania gives me special expertise about immigrant life in northwestern Pennsylvania.
September 8th, 2006 at 5:28 pmThe beginning of Sept 11, 2001 attack:
Here’s what Osama bin Laden said about Clinton’s decision to “change direction” in Somalia (after following Murtha’s advice), according to the Frontline documentary, “Hunting bin Laden”:
“After leaving Afghanistan, the Muslim fighters headed for Somalia and prepared for a long battle, thinking that the Americans were like the Russians,” bin Laden said. “The youth were surprised at the low morale of the American soldiers and realized more than before that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows ran in defeat. And America forgot all the hoopla and media propaganda … about being the world leader and the leader of the New World Order, and after a few blows they forgot about this title and left, dragging their corpses and their shameful defeat.”
As directly quoted from the actual Fatwa by Osama bin Laden in 1996:
From bin Laden’s Fatwa:
“…But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the “heart” of every Muslim and a remedy to the “chests” of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.”
BIN LADEN’S FATWA, or Declaration of War, by Osama bin Laden was first published in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper, in August, 1996.
September 8th, 2006 at 7:39 pmOnly in USA the liberals can openly act like fascists and demand a film be pulled of screen; Pretty pathetic considering most of the blame is on those in power for 8 years before 9/11.
Funny that Berg should object considering he was cought stealing documents, and that incident isnt being shown unfortunately, like most of the ommited details that led to 9 11 over the years, thanks to Clinton clan.
Most of media in USA is so skewed to the left , no wonder ABC considers to cave in to BIG BROTHER CLINTON. While the blame Bush for everything crowd puts out crockumentaries of proven giant liars like M Moore.
hypocrisy on the left is beyond anything sane , they run like rabbid dogs foaming ready to attack those who rightfully critisize them and then run like hell when confronted with real problems and terror.Same spineless quality you find in spoiled children.
Wheres the holllywood crowd screaming that rights of artists of ‘path to 9 11′ to free speech and artistic expression is being defecated on by the lefty loonies?
September 8th, 2006 at 8:00 pmAmazing how the left freaks out when someone calls them to the carpet, while they think nothing of telling outright lies about the right. Love hearing “Bush Lied”, but they seem to not understand the concept of a lie. A lie is when you intentionally tell someone something that you know is not true. “I did not have sex with that woman.”, there’s a lie.
We believe that Sadam have WMD’s is a statement based on the best information available. That is not a lie.
Amazing how thin skinned that left is when anyone points out their flaws.
What keeps me on the side of the conservatives is they are willing to admit when they’re wrong and think nothing of healthy disagrements and discussion with their peers. What turns me off about the Liberals is that they scream at the top of their lungs when every anyone speaks out against their “talking points”.
The problems leading to 9/11 did not arise after Hillary and her husband left the White House. Hillary’s crew emboldend the groups that caused this action.
Get over it. Gore didn’t win (thank God). Kerry didn’t win (same). Neither could lead a dog to a bone. Why can’t you live with a good manager, why to you think a used car salesman is better?
Slick isn’t what manages well. Polls aren’t the best way to decide how a country should be run. Why is the left so worried about being popular and not concerned about being right?
Good luck America, hope you are smart enough to see past the pandering and understand good, competent leadership is the path to a strong America.
Listening to the left’s leadership these days is too close to listening to old footage of N. Chamberlain (sp) “There will peace in our time.”
“Speak softly and carry a big stick.”
Hope you start seeing reality instead of marketing.
Richard
September 8th, 2006 at 8:45 pm#313 Finally somebody makes sense with all of this. Wow, the “Left” is having a fit over this one. The louder they scream about the show the more interest is shown toward it. When F911 was released, it wasn’t easy to watch or read about. But, it didn’t make the “Right” go nuts like this. Guess we didn’t have to, we just considered the source. Just a note to all of us, Left and Right, the terrorists are LOVING all this craziness. Let’s ruin their day and just HUG! We all want the same thing, and I know almost everyone of you would stand up for me even if I happen not to be on your side. Maybe I live in a Pollyanna world, I sure hope I do, even if it’s not really the world, but the “UNITED” States of America. We need to unite even if we disagree.
September 8th, 2006 at 10:48 pmCarm
I believe its fair to say that no-one truly believes or any longer has expectations that 100% of what is presented to us on a daily basis is completely accurate or unbiased. However, if this show has the ability for to show Americans how we failed (no one disagrees to that) and how in decision and political wrangling weakens us from within, maybe that will give those that watch it to become more aware and hold responsible their elected officials. There is a great sense of irresponsibility that is pervading our culture and it will be that and not terrorists that will destroy us. They may pull the trigger , but we are handing them the gun.
Im glad school children will see it. They need to understand that the world isnt all playstation, hollywood and their i-pod. The world is in a constant battle of “King of the Hill” and we just happen to be the king now. If they want to continue forward the lifestyle they enjoy now to the future, they need to be aware, or they will be the last generation of Americans to enjoy the blissfull lives we have now.
Speaking of responsibility– Clinton- or anyne else who has served or serves as Commander-in-Chief and the President of the United States of America, does not have the luxury of NOT taking responsibility. EVER. They never get to say- “I did the best I thought I could” That goes with the position and the power. Regardless of the failing the must take the heat– Just like the Captain of a ship is responsible for the behavior and actions of his crew, for all their succsess AND failures, so is the President.
Its time we all accept responsibilty for our actions, good or bad, as well as our weaknesses. Once that happens, we can move on a path to improvement- and that will strike fear into our enemies- for the world knows that when America is united, none can stand up to her.
“Then join in hand, brave Americans all; By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall”
Liberty Song, 1768- thats right– 238 years ago. Never more does that apply then it does now.
I hope they still teach the American Revolution in schools.
September 9th, 2006 at 1:39 pmOL Those people are hilarious. They all shout about how this ABC special is a lie, but not a single one of them are willing to produce a shred of evidence.
We need to remember the leading slogan to the Clinton administration. “Indecision is the key to flexibilityâ€. What did they do to fight terrorism??? Blow up an aspirin factory?? Blow up an empty camp??? Did they take Bin Laden when he was offered by Sudan??? These people are amazingly blind. Clinton did so much only to embolden the enemy, and now when there is an opposing view point, what does he want to do, shut it down. “Call out the nutroot dogs, let’s get our soon to be “former†ally at ABC to think twice about this. After all isn’t that what the right wing extremists did with the Ronald Reagan movie??†Which, I have never seen the whole thing, who could stomach such lies, but from what I have seen is a horrible depiction of RR, and would only cater to those that hate the man.
For too long the extreme left wing in this country has been in charge of the agenda. Even when they are out of power they think they are in power. These people have gone absolutely crazy with Bush Derangement Syndrome, and they need a larger dose of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy in charge. I have said for many months that Republicans are going to do well this election season. I don’t see that changing, no matter how many leftists start to pray.
September 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pmThose of us once part of the special operations community find the scene portrayed all too credible. The Clinton national security group was always a joke, just not very funny. Ineffective, vasilating, much more of a PR group than anything else, the scene (accurate to a word or not) is all too believable.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:30 amI watched the show the last two nights and found it very interesting. Yes, I realize that parts of the story were improvised and there is no way to have word for word conversations and scenes 100% accurate. However, the show did chronicle the major events and some of the behind the scenes work done by the CIA and the Clinton administration. Bottom line, the Clinton administration had many chances to kill Bin Laden but, they didn’t. Would it have prevented 9/11? Maybe. The show presented itself as a docudrama and repeatedly displayed the disclaimer. Don’t get caught up in whether someone hung up on someone or not. Get the big picture and learn from our mistakes.
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September 19th, 2006 at 10:27 pm