Sen. Graham: White House Held Military Lawyers In 5 Hour Meeting and ‘Tried To Force Them To Sign A Prepared Statement’
Sen. Graham: White House Held Military Lawyers In 5 Hour Meeting and ‘Tried To Force Them To Sign A Prepared Statement’
This morning, President Bush was questioned about Gen. Colin Powell’s letter criticizing White House legislation that would authorize torture. Bush tried to downplay Powell’s letter by pointing to another letter signed by the military’s top uniformed lawyers saying they supported Bush’s plan:
BUSH: There’s all kinds of letters coming out — and today, by the way, active duty personnel in the Pentagon, the JAG, supported the concept that I have just outlined to you.
But during today’s White House press conference, a reporter cited comments by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) — a former JAG and an opponent of the Bush’s detainee policies — claiming that the White House had placed extreme pressure on the military lawyers to sign a statement, and that the lawyers had refused to sign the initial statement crafted for them by the White House:
REPORTER: Sen. Graham is telling reporters on Capitol Hill that the White House had them in a meeting for five hours last night and tried to force them to sign a prepared statement and he said reading this JAG letter they ended up writing leaves total ambiguity on interpretation, this is Sen. Lindsey Graham. What’s your response to that?
Snow acknowledged “they were asked to write a letter” but said, “if you start going into who asked whom to write letters, I don’t know.” Watch it:
Read the full transcript HERE.
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89 Responses to “Sen. Graham: White House Held Military Lawyers In 5 Hour Meeting and ‘Tried To Force Them To Sign A Prepared Statement’”
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It probably played out something like this:
“I’m Commander-In-Chief and as your superior officer, I command you to sign this letter.
September 14th, 2006 at 3:59 pmRespect for the military? Suuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrre….
September 14th, 2006 at 4:04 pmThere’s all kinds of letters coming out — and today, by the way, active duty personnel in the Pentagon, the JAG, supported the concept that I have just outlined to you.
George W. Bush
As if the military brass would have the balls to defy their Commander-in-Chief.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:06 pm1/ OR Itll probably played out something like this:
“I’m Commander-In-Chief and as your superior officer, I need help to cover my ass , Im Begging you to sign this letter before November.
NOTE this also
Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, says that Bush’s changes “immunize past crimes.”
Under the U.S. Constitution and U.S. legal tradition, retroactive law is impermissible.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:07 pmDon’t know Snow strikes again!
Seriously, does anybody trust a word that comes out of these snakes’ twisted maws anymore?
September 14th, 2006 at 4:07 pmPresident Bush and his attorney general agree that under existing laws and treaties Bush is a war criminal together with many members of his government. To make his war crimes legal after the fact, Bush has instructed the Justice (sic) Department to draft changes to the War Crimes Act and to U.S. treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions.
One of Bush’s changes would deny protection of the Geneva Conventions to anyone in any American court.
Article 3 prohibits “at any time and in any place whatsoever outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment.” As civil libertarian Nat Hentoff observes, this change would also undo Sen. John McCain’s amendment against torture.
Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, says that Bush’s changes “immunize past crimes.”
Under the U.S. Constitution and U.S. legal tradition, retroactive law is impermissible.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:11 pmthe only letter any american should be looking at is the big ‘I’
Impeach
September 14th, 2006 at 4:11 pmI enjoyed the two headlines juxtapositioned. Bush tries to rally GOP supporters and fires haphazardly at no particular target. Sounds like the foreign policy of the last five years.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:12 pmForced them, eh? Must’ve waterboarded them.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:17 pmBush has admitted he is breaking the law and has commited War Crimes.
The debate in congress should not be whether to make his crimes legal. According to the Constitution and the oath of office each Senator and Congressman(woman ) took, they should now be investigating and drawing up articles of impeachment.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:24 pmIf they do not, they are also breaking the law and their oath of office.
They are Oathbreakers, and our government has no moral standing left at all.
Scrambling for “real” answers…
September 14th, 2006 at 4:25 pmThe Bush modus operandi is to lie, intimidate and threaten those who “have the gall” to stand up to him. Bush is a national disgrace.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI am a bit tired of losing posts, or waiting forever for the posts to show.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI will not be wasting my time trying any more untill TP gets this fixed.
So like did they threaten these peole with briefcases of paper, pitchers of icewater, and high falutin legal jargon, turn the a/c down to 60 degrees, and strip them to the fruit of the looms?
September 14th, 2006 at 4:26 pmThe reporter quoting Graham is not clear to me.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:26 pmIs he saying that the White House coerced JAG to craft a letter that the JAG officers say is not what they wrote? Or is he saying they crafted a letter different from what Bush wanted, and is more subjective than Bush wanted?
In either case, Bush & Co are demonstrating (to me anyway) that they are amoral. The decider is an abuser of power.
Does this letter also contain language that would absolve Bush&Co retroactively from war crimes, by making past crimes retroactively legal?
Retired Federal Judges Oppose Bush
September 14th, 2006 at 4:34 pmNine retired federal judges accused the Bush administration and Congress of trying to deprive detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, of the most basic legal right.
Congress and the Bush administration would be skating “on thin constitutional ice” in depriving courts of their power to hear Guantanamo detainees, the letter added.
The retired judges said federal courts have long balanced the rights of defendants against the need to protect classified information vital to the nation’s security.
JAG Lawyers: But sir, what you are proposing is that we support “Raping little children in front of prisoners.” This letter you plan on having us sign supports total and complete evil.
Bush: Oh you are just exagerating…
JAG Lawyer 1 (reading): “Furthermore we feel that the raping of small children in front of prisoners, preferably by Republican congressmen, is fully supported by military law.”
Bush: Well how was I supposed to know you guys were actually going to read it?
JAG Lawyer 2: Maybe because we are lawyers? Look we are not going to sign this. This document supports total and complete evil, look here, sub paragraph 2b says “And we hereby pledge our souls to evil, and the dark lords of the abyss, right down to the third generation of our children. All hail Cthullu!”
Bush: Look, I don’t see much need for lawyers out here, and Rummy has been riding my ass for more soldiers on the ground in Iraq…
JAG lawyers: How about we, umm, rewrite the letter in more, umm, legal language then?
Bush: Okay. But no funny business!
Half an hour later after Bush has left JAG Lawyers amongst themselves…
JAG Lawyer 1: Do you think he read it?
JAG Lawyer 2: Do you think he can read?
JAG Lawyer 1: Good point, I guess I was worrying for nothing then.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:36 pmYUK!
Do Bush & Co. supporters bury their collective asses in the sand? Or, does fear of Machmed and Abdulah rule so supreme that they will let this crazy and the one named Cheney do anything! I can’t believe there aren’t more responsible avg. Republican citizens who will call this idiot on his stuff.
Poor Ann Richards, she will be spinning about 10,000 rpm in her grave until this sharade of an administration is gone.
TexasJuice
September 14th, 2006 at 4:47 pmFive hours? One can only imagine the pressure brought to bear on these lawyers. It is to their credit that they held firm on their principles. To each of them, I say Thank You.
By the way, Congress can decriminalize an activity retroactively. What it cannot do is make innocent activity subject to criminal sanctions after the fact.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:48 pmThat’s low even for bush, or maybe it’s par for the course.
I’m not sure.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:57 pmThere is absolutly NOTHING this administration is not willing to do to destroy our country. Nothing.
September 14th, 2006 at 4:58 pmBriseadh na Faire
What does your name mean …… I live in scotland and I have no idea,
September 14th, 2006 at 5:03 pmis it scottish ???
Breaking not fair?????Briseadh na Faire
September 14th, 2006 at 5:07 pmBriseadh na Faire according to my Gaelic to English
Briseadh = Fracture, Destroy
ná = Than
Faire = surveillance, lookout
Destroy the surveillance is my guess. Just a guess though, I don’t actually speak Gaelic.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:15 pmAll along King George has been saying that there has been nothing wrong with what he has been doing. I believe once he even said something along the lines of “If we do it it’s legal” or something like that. If this is the case, then why on earth would he want anything included that retroactively covers his ass? Also if what we do is legal, why are people in prison (all Indians no chiefs by the way) for what they did in Iraq?
To me the retroactive leaglization is an admission of guilt.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:17 pmPeople from the left and the right are standing up to Bush and his crazy policies. I guess Bush is a uniter after all.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:18 pm#17……hahahaha……funny and great post.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:21 pmToo bad our government wasn’t meant to be a comic relief.
That name, Jim Haynes is one I remember for some reason. Wasn’t he nominated by GWB to head some agency, and people wrote letters and made statements about his unsuitability… wait… I think I am rembering… wasn’t he an active duty military guy, that he would need to leave the military, to be legally able to take the job? Damn, I wish I could remember all of it. Anyway, this is getting out of control. Was this an ‘order’ from the Commander in Chief (gag)? They sure are doing everything they can think of to keep themselves ’safe’. If only they would have put this much effort into preventing 9/11, none of this would be happening now… well, maybe.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:28 pmBriseadh na Faire is a Celtic phrase for “Break of Dawn.”
September 14th, 2006 at 5:33 pmMark
September 14th, 2006 at 5:33 pmUntil recently, BushCo had the majority of the American people covering their collective asses. Now, they see the need for legislation to do it.
And since I ask for links:
briseadh
v.n. breaking : briseadh na fà ire, break of dawn
http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MF2/mf01.html
September 14th, 2006 at 5:38 pmAnd if someone would be so kind to explain to me why Bushboy, the drunken AWOL coward, is any better than Hitler, Saddam, and the boys…they all use the same tactics to get their way….Show me a man who thinks war is fun and I will show you an asshole who has never experienced war close up. Dubya is an evil stupid man surrounded by more stupid evil men….
Chimpeachment is finally on the horizon!
September 14th, 2006 at 5:41 pm(in Cheney voice) Sign the damn letter or I’ll have you waterboarded!! AAARRRRRRGGGGHHH!!!
September 14th, 2006 at 5:43 pmSnow lied with impunity every time he appeared on Faux News. Nothing has changed. If he were Pinnochio his nose wouldn’t fit in Washington DC.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:48 pmWhat a waste of human flesh. Of course, lying well is the first requirement of anyone this WH hires. Just remember Snowball you are going to have to face a God who doesn’t suffer liars well.
I’ve been waiting for Colin Powell to “sing” and I believe that this is the tip of the iceberg. Colin Powell, before his association with these fools, had real credibility but got “sideswiped” by their corruption and they used him as a front man to slime our way into Iraq.
I believe that Colin Powell has always been an honorable man and, after he realized that he’d been made a “patsy” by the Bush Reich, he slowly disappeared from the american stage.
I’ve been of the opinion that, when he talks or decides to write “his book” on what actually happened, people will not only be shocked but will demand the accountability from this renegade, capricious administration that we, as taxpayers who pay their salaries, deserve.
Since when is an “employer” not allowed to “fire” (exercise impeachment power) when their employee (Bush & Co) have failed so abysmally on the job???
I’m noticing that people everywhere are exercising their constitutional rights and peaceful demonstrations demanding Bush’s impeachment are cropping up in small towns all across this country. That’s how it occurs….one small voice at a time…..and soon, the impeachment cry will be heard from one coast to the other.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:51 pmBush is scum. He knows that under existing law, he could be charged with War Crimes in the future and is moving to cut that off. He is doing this at the expense of current and future US Troops and 250 years of moral high ground. This man is pissing on the graves of every soldier who ever fought and died for this country. Bush will be the first American to ever be mentioned in the same breathe as other war criminals like Amin, Pol Pot, Mladic, etc.
September 14th, 2006 at 6:24 pmIf they get this POS passed, I believe our best, maybe last, hope for seeing the administration pay will be lost. I really hope the holdouts, hold out.
September 14th, 2006 at 6:35 pmThe Killer-in-Chief is a Mass Murderer and Serial Killer. The War Criminal needs to go to prison.
Who Would Jesus Kill?
September 14th, 2006 at 6:42 pmDo not fall for Colin Powell’s statement of opposition to torture. First, ask yourself this : did you believe Powell in front of the U.N. with his fake vial of anthrax (probably yes)? So why should you believe him now?
Do you really think that Colin Powell has changed his colors? Don’t kid yourself.
My take is this is classic Good Cop/Bad Cop. Right out of the Karl Rove playbook of sleazy politics. It’s election time and the Republican Party needs to soften its image, in this case by trotting out Powell to send the subliminal message that Republicans have the capacity for compassion and equal justice under the law.
Don’t buy it - it’s a crock.
September 14th, 2006 at 7:29 pmBoy, everytime you think that can’t do any worse, they go a step further. This fascist administration is very, very dangerous.
September 14th, 2006 at 7:33 pmHas anyone started to refer to these “press briefings” as the daily “Snow job?”
September 14th, 2006 at 7:44 pmColin Powell is reputed to have been complicit in the My Lai massacre coverup when he was middle level brass in ‘Nam. The guy’s a careerist egomaniac; otherwise he wouldn’t be a Republican in the first place. Think about it…him, Condi, Clarence….
September 14th, 2006 at 7:54 pmThis is so reminiscent of the way Bush and Cheney “goosed” the intelligence concerning the wmd’s to justify Iraq. Call the House and Senate tomorrow and tell them you support the bill that Graham, Warner and McCain worked out.
I saw Frist on the Newshour tonight and he claims he is undecided on which bill he will bring to the floor. He is such a phony asshole. If I was on my deathbed I wouldn’t let him near me. He is repugnant. He defends Bush on everything so he can pander to the “fundies” when he runs for President.
September 14th, 2006 at 8:29 pmThis is so reminiscent of the way Bush and Cheney “goosed” the intelligence concerning the wmd’s to justify Iraq. Call the House and Senate tomorrow and tell them you support the bill that Graham, Warner and McCain worked out.
I saw Frist on the Newshour tonight and he claims he is undecided on which bill he will bring to the floor. He is such a phony asshole. If I was on my deathbed I wouldn’t let him near me. He is repugnant. He defends Bush on everything so he can pander to the “fundies” when he runs for President.
September 14th, 2006 at 8:31 pm[…] I can not believe I am writing about this taking place in our own country. In the private sector wouldn’t this in the very least be harrassment or colusion? […]
September 14th, 2006 at 8:31 pmRE: retroactive law (Ex post facto). Prohibited by US Constitution, but not a single case has been overturned when the law was in the favor of the defendant(s).
September 14th, 2006 at 8:44 pmI never thought I’d see the day where we would see our nation’s president defending the use of TORTURE and WIRETAPPING without needing a warrant. It doesn’t make sense why this would even be a partisan issue.
September 14th, 2006 at 8:58 pmquick tell me… what does the snowman know…..???? anything???
September 14th, 2006 at 9:11 pmand…. furthermore, why does the government pay him to not know…. and O M G what the **** is going on in MY CAPITOL>>>>>??? Bush can bearly make a complete sentence. Snowman doesn’t know anything. Blue Cross Blue Shield stops paying for Borrelia care and even though I do not have BCBS I loose my doctor and insurance coverage for my illness….. TUSKEGEE PART TWO> Just what is going on in DC> What is next? Will someone please take charge and save us????????????????
JAG officers? Hahahaha. JAG officers are the most worthless and irrelevant beings in the United States military. They don’t know shit. In fact, they are shit. Anyone in the Bush administration who consulted with a JAG officer should resign immediately. Hell, anyone in the Bush administration who consulted with a former JAG officer should resign immediately.
September 14th, 2006 at 9:23 pm9/11 = Inside Job. Bring the true criminals to justice.
September 14th, 2006 at 9:24 pmQ. How can you tell when President Bush is lying?
A. His lips move.
Someone needs to read the constitution to the president. It is clear he can’t read it himself. Oh, and make sure he knows what the big words mean!
September 14th, 2006 at 9:31 pmClearly, the plan is an attempt to alter certain provisions and force the international community to challenge the redefinition…all the while providing the legal cover for the continuation of questionable methods. The approach is consistent with numerous other administration maneuvers whereby it acts arbitrarily until such time as its actions are exposed, it then disputes the claims until such time as the evidence is conclusive…at which point it attempts to rewrite the underlying laws to excuse prior actions and similar future measures.
Read more here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
September 14th, 2006 at 9:53 pmSnow is probably the worst press secretary I have seen. Instead of infoprmating the public honestly, he is specializing in obfuscation. To an extent, his conduct is representative of the Bush administration that has made lying and scamming the public a routine operation to the point that statesment made from any other souce are more credible than what comes out the mouth this moron press secretary or the white house.
September 14th, 2006 at 9:54 pmThe Bush Adminstration makes the Gambinos or the Medien look like Boy Scout leaders.
September 14th, 2006 at 10:06 pmkevin99999,
I liked Scottie’s sneering lack of efficiency better. He didn’t exude even a hint of competence.
September 14th, 2006 at 10:39 pmWhat would you expect from someone who “CUT and RAN” from the texas air national guard?
September 14th, 2006 at 10:56 pmThe drunken AWOL coward is still trying to convince the masses what a tough guy he is…maybe Karl should try another landing on a carrier with another designer flight suit?
September 14th, 2006 at 11:05 pmThis country has gone to hell under King George, the asswipe from Texass ! If we continue to allow this Nazi Regime to contol America with it’s LIES through Scumbags like ROVE, CHENEY, Bumsfield, Frist. We will ruin Democracy as we know it. Shame on us for getting blinded by the bullshit in Washington. I for one will reflect on the past when this nation stood tall and proud a time when my father came home after the war, the first time we stood united against another evil empire. Is this Deja Vu’. We have become that Evil Empire!
September 14th, 2006 at 11:43 pmOr it went something like this.
September 15th, 2006 at 1:01 amIf anyone in this room wants their military career to be flushed down the toilet, refuse to sign this…
Not signing what the White House wants you to sign can be dangerous to your health. Look at what happened to Paul Wellstone.
September 15th, 2006 at 1:06 amThat was equivilent to the Saturday Night Mascre. It’s interesting to notice how cornered Bush is acting these days. First to Matt Lauer, and then for this clip…. Waving his arm around, and his eye-brows crawling up his forhead to his hair line.
September 15th, 2006 at 1:12 amJust out of curiosity, who in Washington DC has the power to arrest Bush for crimes committed? The FBI? The local police? Who could do it and more importantly, when will they do it?
September 15th, 2006 at 2:31 amMr. E,
The first step would have to be impeachment and conviction to remove him from office, then arrest him for any alleged criminal violations.
Or, I suppose a foreign power could invade the U.S. and capture or kill Bush, using the same arguments Bush used to invade Iraq: he possesses WMD’s; he invades other countries at will; he authorizes the use of torture; he authorizes the kidnapping of foreign citizens and holding them in secret prisons; he is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
September 15th, 2006 at 9:09 amWhen military leaders refuse to sign whatever letter the president wants them to sign, the president has to have the authority to take extrodinary measures. If the president needs to hold Sen. Graham’s head underwater to get him to agree with him, he ought to be able to do that.
September 15th, 2006 at 9:48 amGeorge has lost so many followers that he needs to use his command position to forcablly keep a following that will support his sinking ship.
September 15th, 2006 at 10:22 amGetting defeated on this could put him in an orange jumpsuit. And he knows it.
If Dr. Kevorkian can do extended time for euthanizing cancer patients, well then, W can do time for murder to the 100,000’s degree. So can the rest of his henchmen.
From the war in Iraq to domestic economics, I disagree with much of what this administration has implemented or is proposing. However, Colin Powell’s letter to John McCain is (to me) an outrage. For four years this man was nothing more than a mouth piece for the administration - a classic political hack with zero back bone. In retrospect, he proved himself a career driven Uncle Tom who used his ethnic background and intelligence to further his career and economic standing. His actions (or lack thereof) while serving at the State Department give him “zero” political, diplomatic or moral stature to opine on anything.
September 15th, 2006 at 11:01 amFive hours?! Now that IS torture. Too-bad they had to resort to the naked human-pyramid. What a disasterous Presidency and Congress.
September 15th, 2006 at 12:13 pmThe only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.
Fear is what they use to control you. Fear is the tool used to enslave you.
The only thing we have to fear, is the administration itself.
September 15th, 2006 at 12:31 pmHere’s an odd question: Who licenses JAG officers? Bar exams are given by the states, and the states have their own rules and regulations for licensing attorneys. So, even though a lawyer might work for the federal government - say, as an Assistant U.S. Attorney - he or she still has to be licensed by the state where he or she practices. Patrick Fitzgerald is a member of the Illinois Bar - he has to be or he couldn’t appear in court here (even in federal court). By the same token, Patrick Fitzgerald is subject to the ethical rules propounded by the Illinois Supreme Court, just like any other lawyer licensed in Illinois.
So, my point is … these military lawyers are probably also licensed by one or more states and they are subject to the ethical and disciplinary rules imposed by those states. Now, I wonder whether any state licensing authority might consider it to be a violation of an attorneys’ oath (you know, to uphold and defend the Constitution, etc.) to advocate laws which would abrogate U.S. treaty obligations (since treaties are considered to be part of “the supreme law of the land” under the Constitution)?
Just curious …
September 15th, 2006 at 12:43 pmLet”s not be too fast to accept the McCain, Warner ,Graham ,effort until we have digested it. The Jag letters could be another ruse to
September 15th, 2006 at 1:21 pmpass what the Prez wants. They sound good but always vote lockstep.
Nana
[…] Well, as part of this “let’s redefine torture to be A-OK!” strategery the Busheviks attempted to pressure the military lawyers to agree to the redefinition. So they could brag about it as authorized. It didn’t go over so well. But during today’s White House press conference, a reporter cited comments by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) — a former JAG and an opponent of the Bush’s detainee policies — claiming that the White House had placed extreme pressure on the military lawyers to sign a statement, and that the lawyers had refused to sign the initial statement crafted for them by the White House […]
September 15th, 2006 at 2:50 pm#29 Yes, Jim Haynes was nominated by GWB to sit on the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. Sen. Graham has also appearantly been blocking him from a vote in Judiciary committee. The “conservatives” want him to be confirmed regardless of his record and want the President to have all the power he claims so they are very upset with Sen. Graham’s stance on the detainees. This torture/detainee issue is tied to the Haynes nomination because he is the current Defense Department General Counsel.
#55 The way I understand it the plan that passed would not provide cover for the questionable methods that are occuring because there is no CIA loophole like there was originally. This plan also allows for a judge to determine the evidence that will be used and not used. If the judge decides the evidence being given to the suspect or his lawyer would compromise security then that evidence will automatically be disqualified from consideration during the trial.
The president’s original plan would have allowed the questionable tactics to continue because it allowed for the CIA secret prisons and the government, not a judge to decide what evidence would not be shown to the suspect.
#73 The states do license lawyers but they must pass a multistate exam becasue you can take a license from South Carolina and recieve a virginia bar card because of recoprocity. The JAGs also take federal exams inorder to practice before the federal courts.
September 15th, 2006 at 4:35 pm[…] Please find the story here. […]
September 15th, 2006 at 4:37 pm[…] Sen. Graham: White House Held Military Lawyers In 5 Hour Meeting and ‘Tried To Force Them To Sign A Prepared Statement’ […]
September 15th, 2006 at 6:01 pmI was just crusin’ this board and find you all are really informed, unlike most sheeple. I very rarely write on boards (maybe I’ll start before free speech is TOTALLY illegal) but Liz opened a door that I just had to enter….
#51 Liz and all: About us being politically “saved”: I beg you to take heed and be careful….
We all must realize that all of this political excrement>boloney> will never, ever end (not in this nation or/nor any other)…it will just get worse until the true Savior comes…and He is NOT coming in the form of the soon-coming world leader of the EU. Regardless of what some informed geniuses (I honestly respect and appreciate those political truth-tellers) are saying, there is absolutely no way that citizens can control the political future of this rock. You realize this when you study the corrupt system for many years and don’t have such a high IQ like Einstein that you have absolutely no common sense (again, thank God for geniuses of this world, though). There is no stock in politics (it’s been corrupt since its inception), because politics/politicians/societies are only a slave to the Law of Thermodynamics, especially since we have such unbelievable modern technology (a lot of which is unknown to the general public.) It will only GET WORSE…(watch and see, then laugh). Most everyone here knows that the more you know about what’s going on throughout the entire globe (this includes other nations), the more facts that you retain, the more you realize that we have absolutely no control over it and the more depressing it gets and the more angry one becomes (real bad on your blood pressure). “With much wisdom comes much grief.” The only thing we CAN control is the fact that we can actually get to the point where we “get over” these deceptive and satanic rulers of this world and their created policies/laws/tactics/operatives/upsidedown faux propaganda “news” casts/fairyland maitrix fronts/etc..etc… , which will continue until the bitter, ugly, henious, unimaginable end of MAN’S reign over “kingdoms” (it’s gonna get real rough folks…beyond imagination, everyone, so hold on). It’s a real wise thing to quit trying to find a POLITICAL SAVIOR and get a real grasp on some real truth: He’s the Alpha and Omega. Sorry, everyone, but this rock aint’ heaven. You only get that when you die if you know the real Rock. Otherwise, dead people just hang with the dead criminals of this world for eternity after taken to court. Not fun. Final Note: TORTURE POLICIES OF “CAREFULLY PLACED” CRIMINALS are a walk in the park compared to Heaven’s alternative. Take heed while you can still breathe. Love and Peace bros and sis’.
September 16th, 2006 at 6:04 pmPS: Infowars.com is like a strong cup of expresso for the sleepy. Just straight facts which laws, legal documents and the horse’s mouth > (or I should say the horses’s other end) back up (they are not ashamed of their crimes). Reports what’s really out there…without bends, omissions, cover ups or fairyland stories. It’s organic. Replace your nightly news and turn to it for facts, before you become an Orwellian robot.
September 16th, 2006 at 6:52 pmSince the “vague” language of the GC would indeed describe our recent interrogation practices, it is therefore necessary to change the law because we do not torture. In other words, citizens, we have a choice. We can either torture people, or we can torture logic. Well, actually we don’t have a choice now. Maybe in November. Maybe we can win back the Americal we grew up in and have this criminal administration thrown in jail to a cell across the hall from Sadam and Osama.
September 16th, 2006 at 9:29 pmWhat if the American justice system is usurped to the point where uprisings and civil war are caused to erupt? This is the black mark of countries whose thrones have been ruthlessly usurped by the opulent elites. The Inauguration Parade consisting of whitewashed tanks in the guise of limos, Uzi-bearing plainclothes SS-men, perimeter fencing, riot suppression squads in record numbers, even thus unable to keep eggs from striking the Presidential Panzerlimousine. Stolen elections, disenfranchised minorities, electoral fraud, collusion and corruption all through the supreme court, the senate, and the house of representatives, shady-sounding charismatically deceptive media talking heads, ever inflating in size as the screen gets bigger and bigger with bloted terror-journalism. Newspapers that leave the reader confused and bewildered, not knowing where to turn in response to the daily news. Secret masonic occultists consorting with other occultists, wearing the masks of religion to conceal their true intent. With a quote from Holy Writ, nefarity, death, and evil are brought about. Bush, today’s wayward MacBeth, has done murder on Lady Liberty who is true and supreme ruler of all. Soon Birnam Wood must come to Dunsinane!
We in Canada are aware of your plight in these last days of democracy, and will share in your fate inevitably. Your King is building a barrier wall along our southern border (your northern border) and we have no idea why this is. All that we seem to have found in the way of terrorists were a group of 17 teenage Canadianized Muslims who listened to rap music, had premarital sex, and happened to attend an official Canadian Army Cadets Camp, and were accused of having enrolled for terrorist training purposes when one of their group refused to sing “God Save the Queen” citing religious differences. Three tonnes of fertilizer and other assorted materials were then clandestinely planted in their houses, or else trumped up after the fact, to the end that the trial is delayed indefinitely and most of the original 17 have been released on bail, and are being vigorously monitored. But there is something intrinsically not beleivable in this official story. We have Stephen Harper (who Bush called “Steve”), a fundamentalist robotic nut who probably lost his virginity during some kind of a church
service- or so he would have us beleive- so that he can ‘enlighten’ us all by reverting the same sex marriage laws, civil liberties code and justice system back to the early 1940s and institute his own state sponsored religious brainwashing empire specializing in smoke and mirrors deception and layer upon layer of foul, capricious lies! He is the worst type of warmongering neoconservative Doctor Strangelove imaginable, with an unwavering agenda to subjugate the entire country to the tortures and oppression of his awful religion.
He favors the use of our long-standing military, renowned for fairness and integrity, to discredit our patriotic beliefs through the Afghanistan deception, where we have lost many of our people (although many less than th U.S. since we employ strategy and a bit of tact when we fight). He has ripped open sensitive issues that we had thought resolved, again gay marriage, mainly spewing drivel about how we must emulate our fathers in WWII and just blindly stumble off to be cannon fodder. He wears blase suits and speaks in an unwavering monotone voice with ZERO facial expressions. WWJD my ass.
Let’s all move to the other side of the world, all at the same time, and give those Neocons a little Time Out from oppressing us to help them think about what they’ve done. Go to Sweden and ask to be taken in as a refugee! I guarantee they’ll have room for the number of people that will wake up to this travesty before it is too late- I estimate very few.
September 16th, 2006 at 11:47 pmTHE MR BUSH THE FALSE PRESIDENT,MEANING THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN PRESIDENTLESS FOR ALMOST 6 LONG YEARS,SO THIS TRUE, TRUST ME IT IS,SO ALL THE PEOPLE HE HAS APPOINTED ARE NOT REALLY LEAGALLY THERE,SUCH AS THE CHIEF JUDGE OF THE SUPERM COURT,CASE CLOSE ON THIS MATTER. AS FORMER MARINE AND BUSH TRYING TO CHANGE THE GENIEVA CONVENTION, TO LIST TORTURE AND SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ALOWED, HE IS CRAZY AND HE IS OUT OF CONTROL. IMPECHMENT IS A MUST RIGHT NOW,WE CAN NOT AFORDE THIS WICKED CONDUCT TO BE AROUND UP. BUSH FORGET THE CHRIST SAID THE LEAST YOU DO UNTO YOUR BROTHER YOU HAVE DONE UNTO ME. ON THIS ONE THING HE IS WRONG ON THE BAD THINGS HE AND HIS PEOPLE HAVE DONE. HE HAS ADDED $3 TRILLION TO THE DEPT OF THE GREAT COUNTRY,MEANING THE NATIONS NOW OWES THE WORLD $8.2 TRILLION, AND IT IS BE ADDED TO THE RATE OF AROUND $19 BILLION A DAY.OK.THAT IS A WHOLE LOT OF MCYDESS.THIS CONDUCT IS NOT WHAT THE CHRIST WOLD EVER CONDONE,NO NEVER SO ARE THEY DOING THE WORK OF THE DEMONS, BUT THEY ARE. THEY ARE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE DEMONS, GOD SAYS TO HATE ALL THAT IS BAD, YES MEANING EVIL. YET THE BIBLE FURTHERESTATES THAT ALL THAT IS LEGAL IS NOT LAWFULL. MEANING MANY LAWS ON THE BOOKS ARE NOT AGREEABLE IN THE EYES OF GOD. BESIDE 99% OF THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE ALL ILEAGAL,BECAUSE THEY DO NOT SUBCRIBE TO NATURAL LAW. OK. SO MAY YOU ALL HAVE A GREAT DAY.
September 17th, 2006 at 11:17 amTIME TO ACT!
Remove the republican monopoly in November.
Start impeachment and war crime proceedings against Bush, Rumzy, ConuSleeza, Cheney and others known and unknown.
Abolish the Patriot Crap (Act).
Remove all politicians who resist.
Keep in mind Bush & Company are not the only traitors to this once great republic. All those who signed the Patriot Crap (most without reading it) should be charged with dereliction of duty and publicly shamed. Many should be removed from office, others tried as conspirators(Pipe Dream? maybe).
How could Bush get away with voter fraud, instigating a war, unwarranted wire tapping, surveillance and dismanteling of the constitution. Where was balance, reason, sanity and most importantly opposition within the house and senate?
Don’t let these politicians tell you they were duped, if thats their defence they need to go.
This government has once again failed us and it will be business as usual unless we reastablish who the master and servants are.
For those whom choose to do nothing let your children know this.
We have lost our great republic! Not a single shot was fired, what cowards are we.
September 17th, 2006 at 12:22 pmI have been thinking for a very long time that the people in this country that call themselves conservative republicans are morally bankrupt to put up with the way Bush and the republican congress are operating this country. I do beleive that if the demorcrats were in office some of these law breaker that call themselves Christian Conservative would be on top of buildings screaming for impeachment for the Executive,Senate and The House Of Representatives.
September 17th, 2006 at 5:31 pmFinally, a consensus is growing in this great land of ours. We need to get this gang of thugs out of office. Two more years of this un-checked power grabbing administration is much to much to endure. Number 84’s postings is broad outline of steps/measures we as a Nation must put in motion and carry out. To quote Thomas Jefferson: “Those who give up their liberties for the sake of security deserve neither liberty nor security”. Remember also that “Those who control the present - control the past. And those who control the past will control the future” George Orwell (1984)
September 17th, 2006 at 8:24 pmOther than RON PAUL Icannot think of any people in gov’t who represents the American peoples rights under the constitutions. Our politicians, upon being elected, immediately forget the oromises made and concentrate on keeping their place at the public trough. too bad America!!!.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:50 pm[…] Apparently the White House held military lawyers captive in a 5 hour meeting where they tried to force them to sign a prepared statement in support of Bush’s pro-torture bill, and in a pathetic attempt to try and counteract Colin Powell’s letter criticizing the legislation. Thankfully the Senate is investigating the White House’s actions…and hopefully, something will come of it. “President Bush has been more respectful of civil liberties and civil rights than any previous wartime president in the history of the United States.” […]
September 18th, 2006 at 10:01 amFring them to justice? if that is what W wants then why does the law need to be rewritten before trials can begin? And why does he threaten us with taking his ball and going home if the law isn’t rewritten to his liking . It would seem to me that if they have gotten info to stop planned attacks then the curent law is doing the job quite nicely .Also how can one country rewrite international law?
September 18th, 2006 at 2:27 pmThe Bush Administration (as well as all political leaders)do exactly what they are told to do. They are being run by the illluminattti !! This was supposed to be a highly secret organization. Originally it consisted of 13 families who knowingly or unknowingly serve Satan. Everything that happens is supposed to happen. Remember that Bushh was Head of the CIA and the bill that he wanted passed excluded the CIA from being centralized as a “warmonger.” The FBI deals with our territory but the CIA is global. We are just waiting with baited breath-the ONE-WORLD government. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 18th, 2006 at 3:43 pmI think I am pretty well informed on what we are headed towards. You’ll be OK as long as you have Jesus
in your heart NOT your mind.
[…] That’s probably why so many military and legal professionals oppose Bush’s plans to “clarify” the conventions. In fact, the president grew so desperate to gain the approval of legal professionals that White House officials kept JAG officers in a meeting for five hours in an attempt to get their approval for the president’s program. They refused to endorse his proposal, so the president simply lied and said that they had endorsed it: President Bush was questioned about Gen. Colin Powell’s letter criticizing White House legislation that would authorize torture. Bush tried to downplay Powell’s letter by pointing to another letter signed by the military’s top uniformed lawyers saying they supported Bush’s plan: BUSH: There’s all kinds of letters coming out — and today, by the way, active duty personnel in the Pentagon, the JAG, supported the concept that I have just outlined to you. […]
September 19th, 2006 at 10:00 ami cant get this on a power point!
December 19th, 2006 at 11:37 amThis is why it’s important to get a Civilian defense counsel like Lance Sigmon (the link attached). The JAG system needs some serious work, my court martial went much better with him on the scene.
January 24th, 2007 at 12:46 am