How Bush Rules: Torture and The Quest For Unfettered Power
How Bush Rules: Torture and The Quest For Unfettered Power
“We do not torture,” President Bush has said time and again. But Bush has approved techniques that are defined as torture under the Geneva Conventions. In fact, he abrogated U.S. compliance with Article 3 of the Conventions that specifically prohibits torture. Indeed, his then White House counsel and now attorney general Alberto Gonzales contemptuously referred to the Conventions as “quaint.”
In the infamous memo of August 1, 2002 written by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, the so-called “Bybee memo,” after Jay Bybee, its director and since appointed by Bush to a federal judgeship, the Conventions were shoved aside and the definition revised. Rather than the Conventions stipulations against “cruel, inhumane and degrading” treatment of prisoners and “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment,” the administration adopted new standards: “Physical pain amounting to torture must be equivalent to intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.” The Bush administration’s new torture policy prompted the export of torture technique from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib.
Bush’s torture policy is a centerpiece of his effort to concentrate unfettered power in the executive, an overarching change justified by an executive order declaring that in his role as commander-in-chief in wartime he can make and enforce laws at will. In my new book, “How Bush Rules: Chronicles of a Radical Regime,” I present and analyze the history of Bush’s radical attempt to impose an imperial presidency.
Now, after the Supreme Court has ruled that Bush’s dismissal of the Geneva Conventions and his kangaroo court military commissions for detainees are illegal, the president is trying to force the Congress to reinstate them through legislation. Republicans on the Senate Armed Service Committee are in revolt, and former Secretary of State Colin Powell issued a public letter saying that Bush’s position throws into “doubt” the “moral” basis of his “war on terror.”
The FBI forbids its agents from participating in any way in interrogation of detainees because of agents’ experience of what they considered torture. One agent in an email to bureau officials on August 2, 2004 described what he witnessed at the Guantanamo detainee prison camp: “On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they had urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18 to 24 hours or more.” In one case, he said, “The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his own hair out throughout the night.”
Bush claims are these methods that are “not torture” are necessary because they produce valuable intelligence on terrorism activities. Yet an FBI agent involved in the interrogations wrote on December 5, 2003, “These tactics have produced no intelligence of a threat neutralization nature to date and . . .”
The U.S. Army agrees emphatically. On September 6, the same day that Bush unveiled his new plan for torture and kangaroo courts, Lieutenant General John F. Kimmons, the Army’s Deputy Chief of Intelligence, in his presentation of the Army’s new field manual on interrogation that specifically encoded the Geneva Conventions rules against torture, said directly: “No good intelligence comes from abusive interrogation practices.”
The debate over Bush’s insistence on the use of torture is not a weird aberration, but central to his entire radical project to transform the American constitutional system, create an unaccountable executive, and operate outside the rule of law if he so decides. I describe at length the origins, history and politics of Bush’s ruthless coercion of the senior military, the intelligence community and congressional Republicans to accept torture and comply with his idea of an imperial presidency in “How Bush Rules: Chronicles of a Radical Regime.” Once the background is understood it will not come as a surprise that Bush has provoked a revolt by traditional Republicans and the senior military, pushed into the position of defending American values against Bush’s radicalism. The outcome is by no means obvious.
– Sidney Blumenthal
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Sydney Blumenthal = American Hero
Thank you, sir.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:12 pm“The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his own hair out throughout the night.â€
This tears at my soul. This is not us/US. George W. Bush must be stopped now.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:18 pmGW is supposedly a Christian and leader of the Free World. yet he contends he does not know what “outrages upon personal dignity” means. he says that phrase is “too ambigious”. Now I don’t want to say the man is exceedingly stupid or just an outright liar (yes I do) but a good start might be “outrages upon personal dignity” anything you wouldn’t do to your wife, farther, son, or daughter.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:26 pmI was talking to my next door neighbor~he’s from Panama. We had a long talk. I asked how he (as a citizen, an immigrant, and an entrepeneur) feels about America, and its leader. He began by saying that he thinks Bush is not bad, but not great.
Then we TALKED…
He’s sick of being lumped with “Mexicans”. This is no longer the place where “his people” come for justice and a better way of life.
This is where he came to get ripped off, where he his family came to be discriminated against, and where he faces the same challenges that the general population faces.
Give me your tired, your hungry, your poor…whatever happened to that?
This country has been raped since day ONE. I am embarrased to be American.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:29 pmI’m with you, Zoo. This is NOT America, this is NOT how Americans behave. We’re the nation who’s supposed to help others, not harm them. This administration is soulless. In fact, I just recently came to the conclusion that the “deer in headlights” look on Bush’s face, in the Florida school on September 11th, is really Bush’s horrified reaction to seeing the devil stand in front of him, reach in through his heart, and pull out his soul. (And I’m the agnostic!)
September 17th, 2006 at 9:30 pmI am ashamed of my country’s leaders.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:34 pmWhat kind of man is that in the White House? He is no christian, as he claims; he is no leader, and he is no defender of the Constitution.
“Speak English T-Shirts Are Back” reads the sign at the bar down the street where I live.
This is the most selfish place on the planet!!! Thank the rivers that run that TP is here to let people know that the MAJORITY of us want change. (Speaking of change…Loose Change 9-11….WATCH IT , and then watch it again, and then tell your friends as much as you can.
I have a friend that I never thought would care…………..she DID!!
We have a voice. We are the “sleeping giant.”
I’m on the east coast. What can I do, please?!
September 17th, 2006 at 9:34 pmFar Right in Germany Makes Gains
OK. I’m officially frightened.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:36 pmHey, SouthPaw4Real,
It’s “the real” trueblue!
How are you? Recovered from last night, I see. Good for you! I’m also on the east coast. NE. MA.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:40 pmNice to see the real you again.
Sidney Blumenthal = Clinton Lackey and Conspiracy Nut.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:44 pmBones, “anything you wouldn’t do to your wife, farther, son, or daughter.”
So you think we should treat your mother and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed identically? Even by Demcorat standards, you’re nuts.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:46 pmSouthPaw & trueblue,
Here’s an idea. Get together, paint up some signs, and picket the White House — or wherever you think will have an impact.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:48 pmUSA PATRIOT,
You are not.
You need to change your name.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:49 pmSo you think we should treat your mother and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed identically? Even by Demcorat standards, you’re nuts.
Comment by USA+PATRIOT — September 17, 2006 @ 9:46 pm
No, you’re a psychopathic chickenhawk. If GW doesn’t know what an outrage on human dignity is, he shouldn’t be responsible for prisoners or president. The answer to his question is straightforward. And your stupid assertion that treating prisoners with any less human compassion than one would treat one’s mother endangers our troops, who everyday stand liable to reap the same treatment we give our own prisoners.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:53 pmZooey
…And be in Gitmo for 5 years?
September 17th, 2006 at 9:55 pmNo thanks!
I’d like to see my daughter graduate and go to college!
I’ll be subversive right here on the Internet, thankyouverymuch!
Oh, I forgot about that Brandi, or whoever was steeling names, and thus, the 4real. Yes, recovered…and there will be more recovering to do tomorow.
I am from MD. A city that is rich, yet ignored by our local politicians.
My fiance (wierd to say) is a firefighter….O’Malley once said, firefighters a nothing but glorified trashmen…
My dad has a sign on his lawn that says NO’MALLY.
Who can you trust?
September 17th, 2006 at 9:55 pmHey, trueblue, you’re only officially frightened now?:-) How’s everything up on the Cape? We’ve already got a few trees starting to turn, must be starting there, too, I imagine.
I have to head home soon, just came in to see what’s what at TP–we left Friday afternoon when TP suddenly started their “System Maintenance”–and to do a little work. I hate the slowness of the posting!
It sounds kind of pathetic, but “Happy Constitution Day!” Stay strong!
September 17th, 2006 at 9:55 pmSee the reason chickens^@!s like USA+PATRIOT don’t give a damn if they endanger our troops or tarnish the reputation of the US or destroy everything America stands for is they’ll never serve. So if your son or daughter gets tortured because of the stupidity Bush is proposing why should chickens#@#s like USA care, afterall that’s your kid, not his.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:02 pmI’ll be subversive right here on the Internet, thankyouverymuch!
Comment by trueblue
I didn’t know you were a chicken! Didn’t you say a few days ago that you were a “pr*ckless heart” or something like that?
September 17th, 2006 at 10:03 pmWho really thinks that torture is not happening today? With all of Bush’s lies over the years, I would’nt be surprised if there were still secret prisons somewhere. I mean, look at Bush’s record. He is too arrogant to just give in to laws and orders from Congress. He obviously doesnt see being Pres of US as something with law and order.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:04 pmMy father lives in an area of MD that was hit so very unexpectdly by hurricane Isabelle. FEMA gave him the equvalent of a jail meal. He lived in a trailer that he bought for one year in his front yard. My Dad, Step-mom, and their labrador. FEMA F*cked up LOOOOOOOONG before NOLA.
This is a work in progress.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:05 pm“Happy Constitution Day!†Stay strong!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
I got everyone really nice cards, each with a tiny Constitution printed on them, but GWB came over and wiped his ass with them.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:05 pmWho would Jesus “Water-board”?
September 17th, 2006 at 10:06 pmI didn’t know you were a chicken! Didn’t you say a few days ago that you were a “pr*ckless heart†or something like that?
Comment by Zooey —
Now let’s not air our dirty laundry, Zooey.
;)
Get me angry, and the Hulk himself would cower!
September 17th, 2006 at 10:11 pmThat might have been the jist of it.
Who would Jesus “Water-board�
Comment by tru_thordare — September 17, 2006 @ 10:06 pm
Well according to USA+IDIOT everybody except rich white republicans, and maybe even some of those.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:11 pmMy sign’s are ready and so are my running shoes, any and all in Washington state I’ll see you on the picket line corners……Boot the basterds out is my moto…Not what my sign’s say.” No more bush war’s”…..Blessings All
September 17th, 2006 at 10:15 pmThanks for the image, Zooey :D Gotta run, I’ll catch up tomorrow sometime.
‘Night, all!
PS, Everyone, keep watching Keith Olbermann, he’s been on a tear!
September 17th, 2006 at 10:15 pmOld Bushies is a big liar. He does not listen to anyone. What do you expect from this idiot. We need to impeach him and his admin after the dems take both both houses in November.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:21 pmIsn’t it interesting that the Dems can finally appear to hold the moral high ground? More than once on MTP, Sen. Levin spoke of America and “valuesâ€, needing to stand by Article III of the Geneva Conventions. It would further demonstrate our moral decency to the world, as opposed to undermining it as we have in recent events including Abu ghraib, Guantanamo, and the secret CIA prisons. Once again, Bush is way off course. He endangers American values, American soldiers, and the American people. We are supposed to be the standard of freedom, democracy, and decency for others to emulate. But instead, even I , as an American and a patriot, barely have the stomach for it. After 9/11, we had the support of every democratic society on the planet. But by invading Iraq, we’ve squandered it all, along with $315,000,000,000, not to mention the additional multi-billions we’ll send in the coming weeks, months, and years, (at least until Bush leaves).
September 17th, 2006 at 10:22 pmBush would not care, and he said as much, if an American citizen were in North Korea or Iran, arrested, tortured, tried, convicted and sentenced to death without knowledge of evidence against them.
He does not care if Americans are tortured, he is a sick son-of-a-bitch!!!
September 17th, 2006 at 10:33 pmAs bad as this is, the Spector “Citizen Surveillance Bill” is worse.
This is re-writing the Constitution. Without the constitution, torture of American citizens is next.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:36 pmSouthPaw4Real- Pathetic and sad, because it’s true. We all saw George C. Scott walking up those stairs to give his great “American Hero” speech. The greatest generation fought and won that war in less time than this mess. And we’ve no idea when “Mission Re-Accomplished” can be splashed all over the headlines. I almost wonder if this adMISSistration doesn’t worry about Osama on purpose just to keep his shadow around as a reminder for the purpose of terror.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:36 pm“Once the background is understood it will not come as a surprise that Bush has provoked a revolt by traditional Republicans and the senior military, pushed into the position of defending American values against Bush’s radicalism. The outcome is by no means obvious.”
Traditional Republicans like the ones who have rubber stamped Bush all the way? Who’se going to stop him now? Excuse me if I doubt the morals of the Republicans who have turned a blind eye for all these years while Bush has systematically destroyed this country morally and financially. Why do I get the feeling the only way we are going to get rid of these fascists is to physically remove them from office? The outcome is by no means obvious, indeed.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:41 pmBush’s enthusiasm for torture makes me sick. To put it in the simplest possible terms, Bush is a bad person.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:43 pmUSA+PATRIOT,
I’ve got news for you: torture is un-American. So if you favor it, please move to some third world despotic country where your sick values fit in better.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:54 pm# 32 bs:
You’ve seen it? I’ve never been more convinced in my life. 3.? billion dollars….gone. A man buys the contract on the entire World Trade Center complex for a 99 year lease. Why? You know why.
THIS is why I am horrified by what this administration can accomplish.
They aren’t as stupid as we are lead to beieve they are. Well, strike that….they knew/know that the great divide that we represent, will continue. The wedge is the distractor. The divide is no mistake.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:54 pmIsn’t Blumenthal best known as the “grassy knoll” conspiracy theorist?
September 17th, 2006 at 10:58 pm“”I’m saying that nobody knows what humiliating treatment is. What does it mean?”–National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley
ANY of these wigged winger BASTARDS don’t know what humiliation or inhumane treatment is, they can line up and test it out for themselves.
Waterboard Hadley, see if he damn finds it ‘humiliating.’ Dress him in women’s clothes (outside the Shitehouse, that is). Pick up HIS children and then make them scream so he can hear them.
The Torture Party…how is that any different from the KKK?
September 17th, 2006 at 11:05 pmSouthpaw and all, beautiful poem and terribly sad…
Let me clear some thing’s up here, I believe Osama is dead or in hiding and bull shit know’s where, he is drug out for the fear factor every election.Period. This bunch does not want to find him, he know’s to much and would spill all the dreadful details to some media person and the jig would be up for sure.
Next, I’m not going to chastise any one for being afraid and worried about marching or any other activity that I choose to do…I have nothing to loose, let me repeat that…..I have nothing to loose…My life has the value I put on it only and if I choose to give it up for my country and constitution that is my choice….I don’t care about being remembered only doing what ever good pleases me while I am here. Like planting and hugging trees…I will leave not even a foot print behind when I am gone….See, I can do this because I am the only one left in my family..My only living ancester that I knew passed over in 93…My only child died at the age of 21 in 1980……Just like my gun instructor said year’s ago a woman with a gun is a fearson thing, especialy when she has nothing to loose…I do understand freedom fighters mind set.
Unbelievable reminded me in another site of Janice Joplin, freedoms just another word for nothing left to loose, and also about John Lennon and Imagine…..Well I can imagine and I am free, many other’s here are not because of family….It would be very diffrent if my girl were here, I doubt I would jepordize life and freedom from jail if she were. Let me add in closing what ever any one can do, like meeting people and spreading the word or on the internet is just as important, go out there and do it, do what you can do and I will do the same….Blessings all…..Peace for the children of the world..
September 17th, 2006 at 11:16 pmbush has brought incredible shame to our nation. I plan on buying Blumenthals book.
September 17th, 2006 at 11:16 pmIt was a fair fight, for once, as Allen fought for his life to defend his Senate seat in Virginia against Democratic challenger and former Navy Secretary Jim Webb. To me, from the first words he said, Allen seemed strangely disconnected from reality. Among Allen’s more interesting points:
* we need to teach Iraq about things like budgets and procurement - should we send over the Bush Republican Chief White House Procurement Officer a/k/a a convicted felon? Or maybe teach them about how to run up more budget deficits in the space of six short years than hundreds and hundreds of years prior?
* Allen thinks the plan to build permanent military installations in remote areas of Iraq is not a plan to build permanent military installations. We just need these installations so troops can be safe. From what? Everywhere else in Iraq as it continues to fall apart? How else would we use them other than to retreat into or stay there forever?
Webb seemed right on point in needing to engage in diplomacy to reach a reasonable approach with Iraq’s neighbors, who will after all be there after we leave and can help or hurt us now.
I still have 20 minutes or so to go . . . but this to me shows how out-of-touch the Republicans are and how the Democrats have some good new approaches to offer.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/
September 17th, 2006 at 11:20 pm…has anyone heard much about this?:
October 5: No Work. No School. Protest in the Streets.
September 17th, 2006 at 11:44 pmhttp://worldcantwait.net/
EXCELLENT IDEA, Katy!!!!!! The official protest times in all major cities will be 10:30 am until 2:00 pm - fellow commuters will thank you!!!
September 17th, 2006 at 11:53 pmThe result, however, is a rebuke for Mrs. Merkel and her conservative party, the Christian Democratic Union, which lost votes in Mecklenburg and fared even worse in an election in Berlin. There, the city’s popular mayor, Klaus Wowereit, led the Social Democratic Party to a comfortable victory. -trueblue
seems left and right are flipped in Germany…
Here it’s the Right Wing Neo-Cons (such as MA) that spew the neo-nazi nationalist diatribe..
September 17th, 2006 at 11:55 pmI do condone the use of sleep deprivation & loud and obnoxious music - preferably hip-hop. I think the idea of humiliting my enemy is acceptable
You humiliate yourself here all the time enemy (always imagined by you) or not.
I also bet your one of those crazy ass Gladys Kravitz types who calls the city for every little infraction of your latest neighborhood target..the guy with the boat trailer, enemy….the one with the kids running thru your yard ENEMY! The ones that live across the street and work on their old car…ENEMY!
How many of these ‘enemies’ do you have MA? Just askin,,,
September 18th, 2006 at 12:03 amhttp://www.harpiesbizarre.com/gladysreaction.gif
We have found MA!!
September 18th, 2006 at 12:06 amHumanitarian issues aside (because people will be tempted to treat suspected terrorists as less than human)…
Torture doesn’t work! Ask Rep Sen John McCain - he was tortured when he served his country. No reliable information is obtained through those means.
And seriously - after five years in Gitmo - what can those people have to tell authorities that would be relevent?
September 18th, 2006 at 12:07 amhttp://www.harpiesbizarre.com/gladysanim.gif
Torture doesn’t work,,see I was married once..
September 18th, 2006 at 12:16 amI present and analyze the history of Bush’s radical attempt to impose an imperial presidency. –Guest
Cheney had a big hand in this Unitary Executive thing as well..not to mention Mr. Yoo.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:19 amI just finished the fascinating intro to this book. I can’t wait to get backto it.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:19 amThe one thing I think would be worth exploring by Think Progress, is why the republicans, the people not the pols, are reacting the way they are. I thought with Graham and Warner as one of the 3 senators (I know most republicans hate McCain) they would rethink thier chest beating support of torture. I figured with the other 2, the republican people would see that not cheering on torture wasn’t being a wuss. But, I am surprised to find that they are hateful (as usual) to even these 2.
I’d like to find out why and what is wrong with them.
I know about the Authoritarian thing but, there has to be more to this. You have thier party divided over this and the military angry at Bush for years. these guys are not soft. They are tougher than Bush could ever dream of being. Bush is a bully because he is so insecure about his own Machismo. He has to play cowboy, bully and grab power to feel like a “man”.
Bush wants America to set the standard of how much, and to what degree, torture is acceptable (which only we will be allowed to use). He’ll give it a palatable name like “assertive questioning techniques.” If any other country uses his standards they will be condemned as savage while he waves the American flag…and it will all make sense to Republicans.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:26 amBush wants America to set the standard of how much, and to what degree, torture is acceptable
more like he’s trying to cover his ass….after the fact.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:37 amBones is following Christ’s standards, something that you apparently are unfamiliar with. You’ll find them in the New Testament, Matthew 5, 6, and 7.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:38 amtrueblue,
the concern goes much deeper than your fears….remember the articles a few days ago about the microwave weapons designed for use against civilian uprisings….
Pray that the light of truth continue to shine upon those intent on destroying mankind and this earth for their own personal profit.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:46 amGood stuff,Sidney.
September 18th, 2006 at 12:50 am“He began by saying that he thinks Bush is not bad, but not great.”
Then, Panama or not, he’s part of the problem, not the solution.
“He’s sick of being lumped with “Mexicansâ€.”
Oh, boo frickin hoo. What makes him so special? Just about EVERYONE who has ever lived has been ‘lumped in’ with someone else’s ignorance. Big fat deal.
“This is no longer the place where “his people†come for justice and a better way of life.”
Of course it is. Have you ever been to Panama? Conditions in the US are a GIGANTIC improvement over what most Panamanians face daily — especially after Bush I raped that country.
“This is where he came to get ripped off, where he his family came to be discriminated against,”
He can talk with any Central American indian and find out that the racism directed at them by Panamanians is worse than what he experiences here.
“This country has been raped since day ONE. I am embarrased to be American.” –SouthPaw4Real
Then you aren’t thinking very clearly. The idea that America was a GRANT, just shoveling your rights up to your face so you can eat and dream happy thoughts WAS NEVER TRUE. When America was formed, the whole world was run by dictators like GFH Bush.
American democracy is a work in progress, and progress we have made — tons of it. GFH Bush is trying to change the 1996 War Crimes Act because it exists, not because it doesn’t exist. Colin Powell lied to the UN because it exists and he had to, not because the US and the UK didn’t create the UN after helping defeat Hitler.
No one can be or should be ‘proud’ of a fascist coup, but ANY country can have one. And if you don’t factor in the gigantic changes in human technology in the last 50 years then you aren’t looking at a real picture, just a comic book. I can call India on a piece of plastic I carry around in my pocket. I can transfer a movie over the Internet to someone in Bosnia. I carry water in a plastic bottle, drive in a Prius, and think nothing of the existence of aluminum foil (other than recycling as much as I can).
It is possible to list HUNDREDS of major technological changes, which ARE factors in our difficulties — things you take for granted, in addition to taking America for granted, South.
September 18th, 2006 at 1:39 amYes Bush is a neo-fascist and desires to be the imperialist dictator of America > in many ways he already has achieved his goal to be a King!
September 18th, 2006 at 2:42 amIf history has anything to teach us, then it should be well noted: ALL EMPIRES MUST COME TO AN END.
With this in mind, are we ready for the hammer to fall?
I’m not talking about rushing out and getting a gun or stocking up on food supplies, no, that won’t help. If we want to make a difference, we must hold our leaders words to task and keep their feet close to the fire: being responsible and accountable. These are the truths which we hold self-evident, yet our so-called Leaders shun them.
When the weak (read Governments) see the end of the line, their actions turn to desperation and thus the slow descent into chaos begins. It could take years, maybe even decades before anyone fully understands it, but these ‘end times’, as our Raptured comrades like to affectionately call it, are heralded and championed by those in power; much like the round of leaders we now have.
Help make a difference. Write to your local governor, to the senators and the politicians in your area. Ask that they be more active in addressing the pressing issues of state: health, education, welfare, energy, housing, food, ecology and life. Promote discussion and dessention. A vibrant democracy is only as good as its participants.
Stem the flow of Stagnation and fear.
Be Active!
September 18th, 2006 at 3:46 amSo much greed. So much corruption. So much death. For what? All of this because of two differing versions of an invisible man floating in the sky and what this alleged invisible entity wants.
From our perspective (America) it has been told to us time and again that this invisible man floating in the sky wants us to have it all. But the way it always seems to go is that only a few people really have it all in this country and they justify their groveling for more by saying they are blessed and/or chosen. They’re better than the rest because they have money and they have multiple opportunities to acquire more. It almost seems that money is all they live for. Of course with money comes power. With power comes control. The secrets of the present administration, their corruption, their lies will, as has always throughout history, unravel and reveal their obsession with omnipotent power. They truly believe that they are special and are of a higher humanity than myself or the rest of the inhabitants of this country or world. I will never believe them or respect them and certainly follow them. They are megalomaniacs.
From their perspective I have to guess, for I have never seen the world from any other than my own. They seem to have a deep and ongoing distrust of anything considered ‘western’. Why? Maybe centuries of invading hordes and religious tyranny from outside and from within have made them a bit edgy by today’s standards. Maybe the steady indoctrination they’ve received regarding what the invisible man in the sky wants for them. Many say the alleged invisible entity wants them to kill all unlike them lest they be deemed unpure themselves. To the perpetually indoctrinated ones, what are they to do? Many just want to live a good life as I believe many here also wish to do. But, they live in a society that doesn’t tolerate expressions of that nature publicly. They must always succumb to the whims of their leaders. If they refuse, their families are usually taken away never to be seen again. Or maybe just simply killed before them to make sure you get the message that you must comply. They, too, are ruled by megalomaniacs.
Here, if someone came up to you and requested that you strap to your torso several bombs and that you are to detonate them at a prescribed location for the good of God, I believe most people here would look at them as if they were the craziest lunatic to walk the face of the Earth. Over there, they don’t have much of a choice. Has anyone ever wondered that if it’s so wonderful to blow yourself up and as many of your enemies as you can with you that you immediately go to ‘paradise’ and sit at the right hand of Allah, then why hasn’t Osama bin Laden or any other Muslim leaders done so? Don’t they want dead virgins in paradise too? Lunacy.
If human history is any indicator, God, Allah and all the other invisible wannabes of dominion have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are completely worthless. They are simply used as a means to an ends by the powers that be at that particular time. Some more so than others and by this era’s standards I believe we’ve surpassed all other previous civilizations in justifying just about anything we want regardless of the ramifications simply by invoking ‘God’ or ‘Allah’ or whatever invisible entity tickles your fancy.
We must do something tangible (based on reality, not fantasy) to stop this madness now for if we don’t it is surely to escalate in the very near future with the simple invocation of “‘God’ or ‘Allah’ demands” by probably only one or two men on this planet. Maybe it’s finally time that we decided that the fate of the Earth and humanity is more important than the megalomaniacal whims of one or two men. They need to elevate themselves now just as we do and demand ultimately, no more! We are not your playthings. We are not infidels and traitors. We are just people taught to hate one another. We’ve accomplished death. Isn’t it about time to create.
Since I live in America my guess as to what it’s like over there may be wrong, but if George Bush and any and all like him want me to blindly follow and believe as he sees fit he and/or they can absolutely forget it! Because until one or any other of the alleged invisible entities supposedly controlling this planet finally makes a real, live appearance to finally set the record straight on just what it is we are supposed to do here, I’m staying with my opinion. I’ll be patriotic to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights but, I’ll never trade that for patriotism of one man. I cannot fathom how one can kill a person at the behest of another simply because he said an invisible man floating in the sky wants it.
It’s a beautiful world ruled by the ugliest of beings.
September 18th, 2006 at 3:59 amUntil you Americans realise that torture is wrong, and really there should be no argument over that, I am going to continue to write godawful poetry paraphrasing American songs. Thus, guess the original song:
September 18th, 2006 at 4:43 amWe are not like our enemy, we are Americans and we do not believe in torture. Clearly whatever is happening in Guantanamo bay is not good. It violates both Geneva conventions and Military code.
September 18th, 2006 at 5:29 amMeanwhile, officials of Nouri al-Maliki’s 4-month-old Iraqi government say the U.S. detention system violates Iraq’s national rights.
“As long as sovereignty has transferred to Iraqi hands, the Americans have no right to detain any Iraqi person,” said Fadhil al-Sharaa, an aide to the prime minister. “The detention should be conducted only with the permission of the Iraqi judiciary.”
At the Justice Ministry, Deputy Minister Busho Ibrahim told AP it has been “a daily request” that the detainees be brought under Iraqi authority.
There’s no guarantee the Americans’ 13,000 detainees would fare better under control of the Iraqi government, which U.N. officials say holds 15,000 prisoners.
But little has changed because of these requests. When the Americans formally turned over Abu Ghraib prison to Iraqi control on Sept. 2, it was empty but its 3,000 prisoners remained in U.S. custody, shifted to Camp Cropper.
Oh yeah, he’s not torturing people.
September 18th, 2006 at 5:30 amImpeach. Imprison.
September 18th, 2006 at 5:47 amFrom the Sunday talk shows: Specifically, Hadley said, interrogators need clarification about the provision in Common Article 3 that bans “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.”
You need clarification as to what might be humiliating and degrading treatment? Only republicans need clarification, the rest of the world could tell you right away what humiliating and degrading is. Wiping menstral blood on people, forced masturbation, anal invasion with brooms, raping little boys in front of their parents, just about everything republicans did in Iraq, Eastern europe qualifies. Assholes.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:38 amGood Grief! Now the right-wing Evangelicals are actually worshipping a picture of President Bush. Nope, I didn’t make it up, and as bad as I hate to use them as a quote, it was ABC that broke the story!
I think the President and some of the country are actually going bonkers!
Bush’s Picture Worshipped by Evangelicals!
What’s next - does Cheney get in on the act too????
September 18th, 2006 at 10:03 amAny questions now how it happened in Germany?
I thought not.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:21 amAny questions how it happened in Germany?
I thought not.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:22 amAny questions how it happened in Germany?
I thought not
September 18th, 2006 at 11:25 am#70…sad but true
September 18th, 2006 at 11:25 am“Physical pain amounting to torture must be equivalent to intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.â€
This re-writing of reality, or, re-defining the definitions of reality, futher proves we are dealing with insanity.
(going by this reality-avoiding-ideology, what will I call it when I get a cut? Should I just make up my own word since “physical pain” has been taken? Nonsense!)
September 18th, 2006 at 12:34 pmBush is “Death.”
September 18th, 2006 at 1:16 pmRe:61 Mr. Evil, it is with sincere sadness that I read your last post. While you tend to blame the problems of the world on the “invisible man in the sky”, problems are created by people, not Gods. This is just a wild guess, and my guess is that you’re an atheist. I can respect that. I can respect that certain chains of events have led you to question the purpose and means of our existence. Your conclusions are either that a God/Gods have failed or that they’re just not there at all. I cannot apologize for the happenings in your life that caused this chain of events to unfold. I’m sure there are things that could have gone differently in my life that could have made me feel the same way. Fortunately for me, they did not. Invisible or not, I’ve been blessed in more ways than I can count, and most are due to forces outside of my control. You can call it luck or fate if you want, I call it divinity.
September 18th, 2006 at 1:49 pmThat being said, you cannot lump the problems of the world, it’s governments, and it’s leaders into the category of failed religion. There are many megalo-maniacs who are just as Godless as you. Ending the worlds belief in certain “invisible men in the sky” would change little, other than the one who gets the blame. People are people no matter who they believe in. If you would strap a bomb on to your back to kill yourself and others in the name of God, you’d certainly do the same if there were no God and, say, WAL-MART told you to. Or you’d still find people willing to blow up abortion clinics to kill abortion doctors, God or no God. When men were living in caves carrying clubs and discovering fire, their world depended on survival of the fittest. The same holds true today. Money makes you a survivor. Your God can make you a survivor. Many things have taken the place of fire and big sticks, but it still holds the same “in essence”.
Opposing most “reich-wing evangelicals” I pray daily for peace. I pray that somehow our president has the wisdom to lead this nation. It doesn’t matter who the president is to receive this prayer form me. Why would anyone want a president who ruins a country? I’ve prayed that I made the right decision when I vote for the leaders of this country… doesn’t mean I always make the best choice. I do not worship the ground that any man walks on, or any normal man at all for that matter. so when you lump all of those who believe in a God together as murderers, your not just misinformed, you’re bigoted. Like I said before, you’ll find people willing to kill and murder for any reason, not just for their “Invisible man in the sky”.
#76 coachjason: You missed the point of my post. What about my post gave you the impression that I’m bigoted. It’s about manipulation. Political and religious leaders using people’s faith to manipulate them into doing heinous, dispicable things. Having faith is an individual right anyone can exercise regardless of where they are from. It comes from within.
Observing human history and the innumerable atrocities that man has committed, seemingly unbridled, against man usually in the name of God or Allah or any other deity of your choice shows me that this (or these) entities are either incompetent or do not exist except in the minds of the megalomaniacs in power. I said that they use them as a means to an ends. I wouldn’t strap a bomb to my body and detonate it for any man, any deity, any organization or any entity, including “Wal-Mart”. If you want to believe that you can solve the world’s problems simply by petioning your deity of choice with a daily prayer, so be it. Like I said above, it’s your right to do as you please within your own mind. But when you use your personal belief system to intrude upon my life and my personal life that’s where I draw the line! Calling me “godless” accomplishes nothing except to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside just as I guess you get when you pray.
Since you seem to have had to this point a good life, it might be easy to believe that your prayers have been an integral part of your bliss. It’s easy to believe that your prayers have been answered. You are truly blessed. What about the children who are neglected and starving on a daily basis. Why aren’t their prayers answered? What about the children abused and raped daily? Why aren’t their prayers answered? I could go on and on as to why people like you are so special and why the cries of helpless children, by the millions, go unheeded each and every day.
You seem to enjoy your little fantasy bubble that you live within. You said I am bigoted. That, I assure you, I am not. I love humanity. All humanity. We all, for the most part, have something good to give. We just need to finally, in reality, give each other the chance. And that too comes from within.
September 18th, 2006 at 2:39 pm#77 Mr. Evil
September 18th, 2006 at 3:06 pmAs I guess I missed the point of your post, you seemed to have missed the point of mine. I was trying to point out that someone crazy enough to blow themselves up in the name of a religion, would still be crazy were there no religion. Maybe, in your eyes, God has failed some people. Children are kidnapped, tortured, beaten, raped, etc. everyday. I can absolutely see how you would see that as a failure of a God. There in lies the question that if you know this stuff is going on, why are you not doing anything to stop it? I guess the same goes for me. I can pray and, in “my little bubble”, maybe that makes me feel better. Maybe you question God’s failures and that makes you feel better. Like I said, if there is no God, then who do you blame the problems of the world on?
To me, the problem is and continues to be man. Men who want to place blame instead of solving problems. Maybe I should have phrased what I said about you being bigoted a little differently. What you said about people being manipulated by god is bigoted. God is not the only way people are manpulated. Look at our welfare and our adoption systems. When the system successfully gets a person out of a foster home or off of welfare, that’s less money from the government into the system. So getting people out of either is beneficial only to the recipient, not the system. That’s why getting out of either is near impossible. They’ve been manipulated using the government and “the invisible man in the sky” had nothing to do with any of it.
I agree that humanity as a whole has something to offer one another. But when you hit people with labels, as I did you with “bigot” (for which I apologize), and you did when you grouped those who believe in God as the “manipulated”, then we get nowhere.
What I want to know is when did my personal beliefs intrude upon your life, because I’m sure I can point out where just as many of your non-beliefs have intruded on mine. (I don’t mean your as in yours personally but in general.)
I blame myelf for not having the power or fortitude to expose the powers that be for what they are. I did not say people were being manipulated by God or any other deity. I said powerful men (politicians) use the name of God or any other deity to manipulate other people. I also didn’t mean you personally have tried to invade my space. I meant peope like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, et. al. trying to influence politicians to make any changes they can on their behalf to try to make this nation a theocracy. You and anyone else can have all the religion, deities and relevant rituals and ceremonies that go with them. You are free and clear to do so. Just as I am free and clear to not have them.
To boil my opinion down, George Bush’s administration, in reality, is an abomination for this country and the ideal’s for which it was founded. All I’m saying is we can do much, much better.
September 18th, 2006 at 4:43 pmI’m having a hard time comprehending Bush’s and his follower’s stance on changing the Geneva Convention.
For 57 years, 194 countries have abided by the Geneva Convention, none of which, through all their different leaders, have found the articles laid out in the Geneva Convention to be “vagueâ€. Yet, G. W. Bush, a man with average intelligence at best, a history of failed polices and limited military experience, can’t seem to understand what countless others have understood to be the standard for the treatment of those captured in the time of war. This coming after it has been proven that 70 to 90% of the captives involved in the mismanaged wars Bush has started were innocents.
What really is frightening is that those defending Bush’s stance are calling those opposing it “radicalsâ€, “mavericks†or worse. Have we come so far down the road to tyranny that a majority now believe practices that destroy liberties, dignity and basic humane treatment, that make us more like our enemies as opposed to setting us apart, are going to win us anything but the contempt of those we’re supposedly trying to win the hearts and minds of?
I pray not. For if true, America once the beacon of democracy and freedom is no more.
September 18th, 2006 at 5:27 pm[…] Think Progress […]
September 18th, 2006 at 5:41 pmI hate to disagree with such a noble body, but what is described as torture here (and at Abu Ghraib) is what fraternities used to do to their plebes. Admittedly some here might say that such fraternity hazing is inappropriate at fraternities, but it is emminently survivable.
Under your definition of torture, all high school sports should be banned, fact is high school PE should be banned.
Of course there is a good chance that people agreeing with this nonsense had difficulty with PE.
September 18th, 2006 at 6:27 pmI attended a military college (Texas A&M) when the sophs would shave your scrotum with a Gillette blue after rubbing it across a concrete walk. They also rapidly passed a standard coat hanger between your butt and a concrete block wall. That gave one what was referred to as the red ass. That hazing has been suspended since then (I think).
September 18th, 2006 at 6:50 pmOK let’s think people and not get sucked into this sophistry. 1) Compliance with Geneva is a mutual responsibility. The point is to protect our soldiers taken prisoner. The other side does not and will not comply in any event so we have nothing to gain nor any responsibility to comply. 2) Unlike in past conflicts, detainees may have information that could prevent a catastrophic attack. Recall that Moussouai’ s computer contained information that may have prevented 9/11. 3) What feels good isn’t necessarily the truth. It would be lovely if we lived in a world that allowed us to be benevolent to everyone all the time but we don’t. It doesn’t feel good but it’s the truth.
September 18th, 2006 at 7:23 pm[…] “Long Time Standing” – Andrew Sullivan “How Bush Rules” – Think Progress “Bush’s Fight with Congress over Torture Defines Our Character” – Alternet.org […]
September 18th, 2006 at 7:27 pm“They lie to us then they lie to themselves about lying to us.”
John Trudell.
In the Spirit of Crazy Horse!
September 18th, 2006 at 9:23 pmHow can anyone not realize that George W Bush has less respect for human life and suffering than Satan himself? From Bagdad to NOLA, he has inflicted more misery and death on more people than anyone in the cumulative history of the human race.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:38 pmRemember, the only thing we have to fear as citizens of the United States and the world…is the Bush administration itself.
BushCo has big plans for 2007.
First, one our their houseboys in the House of Representatives snuck a provision into a bill that gives the White House complete control over all of our nation’s military forces, including national guard units, which (after this law is passed) will no longer be under the control of our state’s governors. Hey, BushCo is just trying to streamline the command hierarchy by cutting out the middlemen and middlewomen, you know, our state’s governors.
Second, Bush awarded a $385 million contract to Halliburton to build “detention centers,” i.e. prisons, around our freedom-loving country. Of course, Halliburton will also hire those who will run the prisons, so BushCo will have their own personal gulags ready for occupancy sometime in 2007.
Third, the Air Force Secretary, Wynne, rolled out the idea of using ?non-lethal? high-tech weapons like high intensity microwave beams on any unruly crowds in the United States, before exporting this technology overseas to use on foreigners. Hmmmm. Holy crowd control, Batman. Also, it helps to loosen the Geneva Conventions’ “torture” definitions…to allow for torture.
Fourth, BushCo is determined to launch airstrikes against suspected nuclear sites in Iran, either by the end of 2006 or sometime in 2007. Times awastin’. Hurry. Hurry. Hurry.
So, what does all this have to do with BushCo plans for 2007?
Once BushCo starts another conflict by attacking Iran, concerned U.S. citizens might get a little restless, hell, they may even riot, calling for the heads of the people in BushCo responsible for leading us (the United States) into another neo-con Republican disaster.
Aaaah, that’s when BushCo control of all of our nation’s military, the building of $385 million worth of prisons and new crowd control weapons will come in handy.
I just wonder when 2008 rolls around whether or not our beloved country will still be a democracy or will instead be a right-wing, banana republic dictatorship under BushCo’s imperial presidential control.
Remember, the only thing we have to fear as citizens of the United States and of the world…is the Bush administration is itself.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:57 pmAmerica where have you gone? Where is our common drive to create a better place for our children, our old people, our disabled? Where is the America that protects all people no matter the color of skin, the choice of a partner, the language one speaks? Where is the America that embraces the thoughts and ideas of all people in order that maybe, somehow we could understand the reason we are so hated by others. America what happened to your heart, what happened to your soul? Saddly we are America and we have let a greedy, dishonost entity speak for us. America we will not let you continue to torture, to break the hearts of innocent people in your name. America we are taking you to rehab kicking and screaming, we will rehabilitate you! I am sorry we have been co dependents these past six years but you will slowly get better and with lots of therapy maybe you will thrive!
September 19th, 2006 at 2:26 amThe MSM is complicit in this attack from Bush on our way of government. The CEO’ s of these companies understand the “quid pro quo” going on.They cover Bush’s drive for torture in a somewhat favorable light and they will get regulatory decisions from the Bush administration worth hundreds of millons of dollars,if not billions.
September 19th, 2006 at 5:41 amIt is borderline as to what form of government we now live under.
#89 - Thanks, Mari! After reading your sad lamentation, I’m ready to try out the “flower power” decals and macrame for myself!!
“America where have you gone? Where is our common drive to create a better place for our children, our old people, our disabled?” - Mari
********Where have YOU been, Mari?? Our social safety net is alive and well. In addition, numerous individuals and (eek!!) corporate sponsors support innumerable charities and worthwhile causes. Surely you are an active participant.
“”Where is the America that protects all people no matter the color of “skin, the choice of a partner, the language one speaks?” - Mari
*********Happily, I live in a place where people are NOT judged on the race, religion, language, etc. People should be judged by their actions. America is most accomodating to individuals.
“Where is the America that embraces the thoughts and ideas of all people in order that maybe, somehow we could understand the reason we are so hated by others.” - Mari
*********Without a doubt, this is probably the sweetest most ignorant question I have heard raised by someone older than eight years old! So we embrace the ideas of ALL people?? How about tribal cannibals? How about backward Middle Eastern and African cultures which continue to perform female clitorectomies? How about radical Muslims who TELL us how peaceful their religion is and demonstrate the lie from their lips? Unfortunately, my dear. ALL ideas are NOT worthy of respect. Grow up….
“America we will not let you continue to torture, to break the hearts of innocent people in your name.” - Mari
*******This fascinating statements begs clarification (there is a difference between TORTURE and DISCOMFORT). Which “innocents” are suffering?
Peace, love, dove…..Power to the People - Right on!
September 19th, 2006 at 11:09 amI wear a turbin. It is my right. I am not a terrorist, a muslim, a jihadist but a born and raised American citizen. I made a choice, a conscience choice. Last Monday eve. I rec’d a voice message on my cell. I am a public person fully engaged within my extended community. My family, myself and my distinct religious community were the recieptients of a Hate crime/threat. It simple stated that I was a hunted and soon to be dead person ; that my family and community members would suffer a similar fate. This is not America. I need to share: The destiny of a family or nation is a larger design of one situation: each one’s decision to accept Truth or not affects the entire universal plot. As each person goes over to one side of the scale, he adds there his weight, hoping his side will prevail. As the votes are compiled, a majority forms, and this designates the societal norms. At some point, critical mass is attained, and then are shifts in awareness sustained. So change of the whole begins with each person who simply decides that he will not worsen the plight of his friend, family, nation or world, but increases his love so with all it is swirled. He heeds Truths call in his own life first, and when he is strong, other’s needs are then nursed. He determines to purify his senses and mind so he can be useful, wise, loving and kind. Then he’s an example and can show the way. This is the person we’re in need of today– One who’s controlled, who to living is true. One’s who aware, sees the divine view. If each one would only reform their own heart, then others would also soon do their part, In time the whole nation would all do the same, so freedom and justice could then ever reign. Ignorance, hate, torture or threats are not the way. thank you
September 19th, 2006 at 11:26 amSingh - Report these threats IMMEDIATELY to your sherriff or police. While
September 19th, 2006 at 12:53 pm“(i)gnorance, hate, torture or threats are not the way”…self-defense IS acceptable. You need to alert the authorities in your area and go to a firing range….
One Taoseno to another:
While it is not borderline what country you live in (there is a contiinuum and wide variation in specific rights), we are clearly on the the fascist
Corporate decision making) spectrum of any scale. The next step in the third reich after developing a means of identifying dissenters (the NSA illegal wiretapping program, an algorith which efficiently scans internet packets, dermining the traffic flow between any specific groups of sites), was to establish enough acceptance of lawless brutality to identify dissenters, and eliminate their ability to communicate. It would us all good to understand at least the basic process by which a nation of Goethe, Schiller, Mozart, JSBach, Hesse, became Nazified, or how our current scenario can get much worse.
Lets hope our backs are covered by the sort of American patriots who wave the flag of humanity, and that of a specific country. Let’s hope America does not need to experience the places the german “King of Pain” took Germans, to learn that important lesson on the appropriate use of force.
It is also interesting on how JWBush’s interpreation of Article 6 of the Geneva Convention parrallels that of his intrepretion of Jesus Christ’s message; ‘turn the other cheek”, “love thy enemy” “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, “do not kill”, “he who saves his life shall lose it”, Do not feer he who can kill the body”. etc.
September 19th, 2006 at 1:40 pm[…] Think Progress » How Bush Rules: Torture and The Quest For Unfettered Power (tags: politics rights torture USA america bush president illegal geneva convention wrong) […]
September 19th, 2006 at 8:49 pmI speak for the innocent, those that have no voice, I speak for the people that have a pain in their hearts.Saddly we do not live in a world where we are able to live content with a patner of choice.With out a dout this may be the sweetest, most ignorant question raised about Torture. I believe that no matter what we call torture it is wrong and this government must be held accountable for hurting human life. I do believe that we as a country must embrace all cultures , if we are to continue as a nation that is strong
September 20th, 2006 at 3:39 amYes, we embrace the ideas of all people!
September 20th, 2006 at 3:49 am“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.â€
September 20th, 2006 at 4:27 amSinclair Lewis
Yea, your all right… We may play loud music, deprive the terroist of food,they just cut our heads off. Wake the F up!!!
We are at war you morons!!! Harsh language doesn’t work to people who want us dead! Now they want to kill the Pope because he quoted an ancient writting. Their leaders keep them stirred up and hateful of the USA to take the light off thier failures. Look what they do to anyone who disagrees w/ their teachings of you they brutalize their woman. Where is the outrage froom the leftie womans libbers. It’s just to convienient to bash Bush. You print a hamless cartoon on them and they riot in the streets and demand the cartooists be executed. If you were in Iran writing the swill about their leaders, you would be put in a ood chipper face first prior to finichning your thoughts. This is the greatest country on earth!!
Oh yea, God Bless America. That will p.o. you loonies!!
September 20th, 2006 at 10:58 pmJeez….
Let’s not lie. These weapons were used during World War II, and all through this century on all Americans of every race. Most were being directed, including former agents since 1989 very heavily. It is only now that the Bush admin, while building up China overnight is going to make claims that these weapons are being used for “politicals” and “uprisings.” North American Holocaust http://www.peaceinspace.blog.com
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You are sensible. Before receiving notice of your comments, I intended to apologize to all decent human beings for my writing out of turn. I don’t apologize for what I’ve said, only for having ruffled proverbial feathers
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