Think Progress

‘What war with Iran would look like.’

By Nico Pitney on Sep 17th, 2006 at 6:36 pm

‘What war with Iran would look like.’

“The first message was routine enough: a ‘Prepare to Deploy Order’ sent through Naval communications channels to a submarine, an Aegis-class cruiser, two minesweepers and two minehunters. The orders didn’t actually command the ships out of port; they just said be ready to move by October 1. A deployment of minesweepers to the east coast of Iran would seem to suggest that a much discussed, but until now largely theoretical, prospect has become real: that the U.S. may be preparing for war with Iran.”

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87 Responses to “‘What war with Iran would look like.’”

bones Says:

Some officials at the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the State Department said they're concerned that the offices of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney may be receiving a stream of questionable information that originates with Iranian exiles, including a discredited arms dealer, Manucher Ghorbanifar, who played a role in the 1980s Iran-Contra scandal.

Officials at all three agencies said they suspect that the dubious information may include claims that Iran directed Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant group, to kidnap two Israeli soldiers in July; that Iran's nuclear program is moving faster than generally believed; and that the Iranian people are eager to join foreign efforts to overthrow their theocratic rulers.

The officials said they fear a replay of the administration's mishandling of what turned out to be bogus information from Iraqi exiles in the run-up to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, documented earlier this month in a Senate intelligence committee report.
September 17th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
budpaul Says:

As if I needed another reason to get a few more gray hairs. Bush is like one of those kamikaze pilots who will sacrifice his own life (correction - many many many soldiers' and marines' lives) to accomplish his task, which is apparently to bring about the End of Days. Truly a frightening man...
America's Least Wanted
September 17th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
Alan Says:

All I can say is that if the "American people" leave the Republicans in control of congress this November, they totally deserve everything bad that will happen to them. The only way to stop the Iran invasion now is if there is an opposition congress to insist that the facts come to surface.

Too bad they are taking me along for the ride.
September 17th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Alan Says:

All I can say is that if the "American People" leave the Republicans in control of Congress this November, they deserve everything bad that is going to happen to them.

I just wish I didn't have to go along for the ride.
September 17th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
Lynne Says:

Right on, Alan.
September 17th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
Paul Says:

Please explain how confident you would be with Iranian nukes.
September 17th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
sunshine Says:

This definitely sounds like an Iraq redux....bogus intelligence, suspect individuals providing questionable information...all of the hallmarks seem to be here again. And, the bottom line is that americans simply do not trust this administration after finding out that we were intentionally misled into war with iraq for all the wrong reasons. Fool me once, shame on me.....fool me twice, shame on you! They will not get away with pimping the american people once again, that's certain.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
Paul Says:

How will you stop Iranian nukes?
September 17th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
bye bye GOP Says:

Satan is pleased with the Republican party. Death is their sheer delight, torture their supreme fascination. War is their bent, their very life blood, and they have proven it so.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
Zooey Says:

No, no, no, no, NO!!

This cannot happen again! We cannot allow it to happen again! Cheney and Rumsfeld just don't get to do this -- they work for us -- and we have to tell them NO! They must be stopped.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:09 pm
Zooey Says:

Paul,

I'm not feeling too comfortable with American nukes these days, and neither should you.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Paul Says:

Okay, republicans are evil. Now as democrats, what do we do to prevent Iranians from attaining nuclear weapons? If the Iranian president openly says Israel should be pushed into the sea, should we ignore warnings about weapons that could make that a possibility? What about the possibility those nukes could find there way through our loose ports?
September 17th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
bobcat_grad Says:

Hey Paul,

Pretend you're Iranian for 1 second.

Now... tell me why your country is wrong. Wait... can't do it?

Thanks for proving that you can't see both sides of the issue.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
bobcat_grad redux Says:

Hey Paul,

Pretend you're Iranian for 1 second.

Now... tell me why your country is wrong. Wait... can't do it?

Thanks for proving that you can't see both sides of the issue.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Zooey Says:

Paul,

1. D-I-P-L-O-M-A-C-Y

2. Get rid of the sword rattling idiot, GWB.

3. Get rid of the lying idiot who said he'd secure the ports, GWB.

4. More D-I-P-L-O-M-A-C-Y
September 17th, 2006 at 7:20 pm
RealScientist Says:

Paul,

What Iranian nukes? Would those be along the same lines as Iraq's WMDs?
September 17th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
USA+PATRIOT Says:

Hey bobcat, pretend you're an American for a second.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
God is a Nihilist Says:

Pretend you're a sandwhich for a second, Patriot. I hate nationalism, do you realize you're no different than the "kids" on TRL, Patriot. Wait, you probably are some 14 year old girl................
September 17th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
jeff Says:

Paul,
For argument's sake, let's say they do have nukes AND have bad intentions. Has this administration over the last 6 years given even one iota of reason to trust THEY are the ones who will handle it effectively?

Iraq
Katrina
Global warming
Stem cell research
Darfur
Deficit

Thanks.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
WaltTheMan Says:

#18 - God is a Nihilist,
I agree, pretend that you are human.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
God+is+a+Nihilist Says:

"How will you stop Iranian nukes?"

How do we stop North Korean's nukes??? Pakistan's nukes???
September 17th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
trueblue Says:

Paul,
The IAEA have come out and said that Bush is WRONG! They are furious with the "doctoring of evidence" (their words) of this Admin.

We are wrong, and should stay the hell out. We aren't even invited to the next round of talks with Iran.
September 17th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Paul Says:

Assuming we have been terribly misled to date, what do we do from this point forward. I agree diplomacy is the answer, but is it possible after 5 resolutions, 10, 16, 35, 50 resolutions - we lose options week by week. Is it as possible, to be decieved by an Iranian leader as we have been decieved by ours? I am also concerned about American nukes. And if I was Iranian, I would probably be thinking the remark about driving Israel into the sea probably raises some legitimate concerns. And, just checking, is Israel still one of our allies?
September 17th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Clyde+the+Ripper Says:

#19 jeff

Tax Cuts for rich drunks
Tax Cuts for rich drunks that haven't been caught
Medicare
Social Security
Job Loss
Gas Prices
Big Oil Profits
Pharmaceutical Profits
Corruption ala Halliburton/Enron/ET AL
Corruption ala Abramoff/Delay/ET AL
Corruption ala Florida/Ohio/San Diego/ET AL
Afghanistan
Bin Laden
September 17th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Paul Says:

#21. Those are all fantastic questions. Now, we are getting somewhere.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
dsm Says:

Look, both Iraq (and even Afghanistan) and the upcoming wars (atleast bombings) in the middle-east can be explained with one think thank: PNAC. It's no secret what the neocons are after. Why are we playing dumb and try to figure out what they want when we KNOW what they want? We've known for a long time, since atleast 2000, and in 1992 we got hints on what they wanted.

Do a seach of PNAC on google or why not http://www.cooperativeresearch.org

Paul, there's absolutely no evidence that Iran builds nukes. Zero. Nada. And it doesn't matter what the not so powerful Iranian president says because he does not decide over nuclear decisions, and it's a proven fact that he has been conciously missquoted to scare the American people to support another war. Americans are falling for the same lies once again. United states of Amnesia? 77% think Iran will soon have nukes when official reports state that it would take atleast 9 to have the first one ready. That's not "soon" in anyway. Don't foo yourselves. If you think Iraq is a mess, then wait until the troops are marching through Tehran.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
trueblue Says:

IAEA: Iran Report Outrageous

I can't believe anyone in America still believes this lying p.o.s. GW Bush
September 17th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Bowdler Says:

I remember when the bushites were in the process of lying the nation into invading iraq (the reason for wich I am still not clear on), iran was holding an election. iran was on the verge of joining the world community of enlightened nations, as the result of its population insisting on it. It would have taken just a little wise effort to turn them in a positive direction. Instead the administration was fixated on iraq, while the plum for the picking was iran.
After the invasion, I also remember talking to these rush limbo listening idiots saying "iran is right were we want them. we are in afghanistan and iraq! iran is in our pinschers."
north korea has developed how many nukes since bush has been around? They haven't been attacked. iran is in our "pinschers". What would anyone expect them to do?
Then true to bush form, right before a midterm election attack iraq. On the theory that it would prevent a democrat take over of the house, and the attendant investigations of criminal wrongdoing. Misusing the power of the presidency for petty political expediency.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
Prime Miniature Says:

Eat your propaganda breakfast kiddies, keep confusing a medium with a movement, and keep going to work to pay tax to fund genocide and wars crimes in your names. The Bush junta know we're too spineless and stupid to actually DO anything about their corruption and incompetence, so stop wasting The Mans time and get back to work.

As they sow, so y'all shall reap.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
jeff Says:

The EU is talking to Iran and the US is specifically not invited. Call me crazy but, this seems to me to be the start of something very bad for the US. We have ALWAYS played a roll in virtually EVERY negotiation on this planet since WWII. Now we are specifically not invited. Blame the GOP for more global exclusion. We live on a small planet and we are now militarily and financially weak. Not good.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
richb Says:

#30 perhaps they are to meet to discuss the BILLIONS of dollars of aid sent to Muslim countries this year

the EU has got to recognize the wolf in the sheep's den, the war in many respects is being brought to their door. Iran with the aid of Russian technology and Chinese capital are a force in the region that will have to be either reckoned with (peacefully one would hope with true sanctions) or acquiesced to.....they aren't going away anytime soon from the forefront.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Juan+C Says:

Call me crazy but, this seems to me to be the start of something very bad for the US. We have ALWAYS played a roll in virtually EVERY negotiation on this planet since WWII. Now we are specifically not invited.
Comment by jeff

Call me crazy but I think thats the best for the planet.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
bones Says:

Rumsfeld's office earlier this year set up a new Iranian directorate, reported to be under the leadership of neoconservatives who played a role in planning the Iraq war.

Current and former officials said the Pentagon's Iranian directorate has been headed by Abram Shulsky. Shulsky also was the head of the now-defunct Office of Special Plans, whose role in allegedly manipulating Iraq intelligence is under investigation by the Pentagon's inspector general.

Some officials say they fear the office, whose existence was first reported by the Los Angeles Times, is being used to funnel intelligence from Ghorbanifar, the arms dealer, and an Iranian exile group known as the Mujahedeen Khalq.

A Pentagon spokeswoman didn't return two phone calls seeking comment about the office.

Bill Murray, a retired CIA station chief in Paris who met with a Ghorbanifar associate and found his claims about Iran to be bogus, called the office's establishment "a big bell ringer."

"That is outright manipulation of information to suggest a predetermined policy," Murray said.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
tablogloid Says:

#6> How confident would I be with Iranian nukes?

More confident than I am with Bush in charge of the United States' many more nukes.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:42 pm
cynicalgirl Says:

I keep thinking that this will backfire on them, but Congress is such a bunch of sheep, I wonder if they will even care that they aren't given a chance to vote on it.

Can you feel a draft?
September 17th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Paul Says:

Jeff,
with currently leadership, maybe it is better to not be invited. What I am worried about is, we are going into these elections in November. The republicans have a plan (stay the course, pre-emption,take over the world, whatever). What is our plan to the American people. George Bush and republicans are evil, inept, insane, greedy, etc? If we don't have a positive message for the American people, will it look like we don't have any better ideas?
September 17th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
Republicans Are The Fear And Smear Party Says:

There's a very good reason why the US was not invited. It's called Iraq.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
motherlowman Says:

This is the October surprise. These chickenshit idiots remember that many people still liked them during the first couple of weeks in Iraq. They figure they can "embed" a few reporters in Iran and get everyone on their side again. It won't work. In fact, it will be a horror. But they'll do it anyway.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
trueblue Says:

I truly hope you are wrong, motherlowman,

It would be beyond disasterous.

I for one think the President's behavior has become quite erratic over the past few months. Did anyone see the 2 year old behavior exhibited by the President Friday? I seriously think we should evaluate his competency.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Marie Says:

I feel this is another reason why we must begin to change Congress in November and try to halt these plans.
Bush may go off half-cocked anyway, but Congress must try to head him off.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
trueblue Says:

It's our only hope, Marie.
September 17th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Sharon Cox Says:

Good Evening all, Yep! trueblue, I watched the maniac in charge...He has gotten more shrill and set in his evil way's with each photo op...Think his handlers need to either cut or increase his med's. Maybe he need's lithium instead of crack and booze...What a night mare these fool's have created for us and the world.....Untill we get dead eyed rice and her merry bunch of war monger's out we are screwed and no kiss. Get ready for massive protest rallies if they pull this one off...Blessings
September 17th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
Clyde+the+Ripper Says:

#39

True,

I, too, have noticed a change in DUHbya but put it down as wishful thinking on my part. It seems to me like he is a bomb just waiting to go off. In fact, on a thread o day or so ago I commented on the fact that he was losing it. I fully expect him to either collapse or become so volatile and unpredictable he will be institutionalized. The man cannot tolerate any criticism, cannot admit fault, and will not accept responsibility beyond his own narrow concept of reality. If the shrinks were not all Republicans they could have a ball diagnosing the fool. It will soon come to that.

Good to see you are out and about. All's well here except I spent over 30 minutes composing a killer comment for this thread and I guess I didn't disguise the "F" word good enough 'cause it didn't show up. But I just used it for effect and just meant it metaphorically and Cheney can use it, why can't I? Just an example of a DUHbya type tantrum.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Clyde+the+Ripper Says:

#40

Marie, please forgive me but I couldn't help myself.

I know DUHbya is half-witted and half-assed, but half-cocked?
September 17th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Clyde+the+Ripper Says:

I apologize Marie and True. I had reference to #41 not #40.
September 17th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
Zooey Says:

Clyde,

FYI, when using the dreaded f-word, to avoid the f*ck filter, use the cute little * I have demonstrated above.

I'm an old hand at getting caught in the f*ck filter, so you can take my word for it. I'm here to serve...
September 17th, 2006 at 10:11 pm
cathy uy Says:

If the US attacks Iran, oil flow will be virtually shut down. Oil from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates passes through a narrow strait that has Iran at its mouth. Iran, if it wants to retaliate (and it has threatened to do this), can simply missile any tanker that tries to pass through. Result: no more oil for the world. Can Americans afford $200 per barrel for oil?
September 17th, 2006 at 11:03 pm
Greg Says:

How do you think we will be able to keep the Straights of Hormuz open? We didn't believe we could do it in the 80's with a much more powerful Navy. the Iranians definately have the capacity to shut down all of the tanker traffic throught there if they want to. They may even be able to get one of our carriers with the Kilo Class Submarrines they bought from Russia. Out carriers are no longer well equipt to deal with that threat. The world is really going to love us if we cause the interruption of oil flow out of the Persian Gulf.

I've not seen anyone talk about this very basic response that you would expect out of the Iranians. But I guess no one could forsee them doing that...
September 17th, 2006 at 11:08 pm
Marie Says:

#45 CtR
Sonofogu
Bush has scored a trifecta again!
LOL
September 17th, 2006 at 11:09 pm
Jackie Says:

Bottom line. Iran is making friendships around the world and major deals for their country. US is losing friends around the world and our elected officials are robbing the US Tresury blind. If the US invades Iran the US will have no help and the UN will have all the countries protect Iran. Bush will be going this one alone and we know Connie is no Powell so theirs not one to trust in this Administration. Look Bush will be charged with war crimes if he doesn't get the US to put into law that we torture and have secret prisons. The CIA agents are already getting attorneys and of course life insurance policies. Rummy is so old he leaked the truth the invasion of Iraq was for oil and middle east control it nothing to do with WMDs or Iraq freedom. Bush could care less about the Iraq people. He looks at the brown skin Iraq people like he looked at the Katrina victims. Bush and his Administration and some of the GOP are the biggest racist this country has seen in a long time. The Saudi's will realize what the Bush family thinks of them soon. Karl Rove came out of the closet so who knows what's next.
September 17th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
Vinilo Suave Says:

This is a test to see if the bad-word bombardiers spot "phuque." As for the wars to come, no matter how advanced and destructive the means, the reason has been, is, and will be the intent of the powerful to rake in the chips. We are all going to die, but we don't have to die for them. They don't know our names. They don't want to. All they have to do is find a phony frenzy for us to give our lives for. Jesus weeps still.
September 18th, 2006 at 1:49 am
Jeff Says:

#36 - "with currently leadership, maybe it is better to not be invited."

That's very true but it just breaks my heart to see it go down like this. Money truly is the root of all evil and greed will destroy this Nation unless we the people do something about it. Voting just isn't cutting it anymore. There is no question that war with Iran will go much much worse than war with Iraq. We the people, for our own safety, must put a stop to corporate control over our Nation.
September 18th, 2006 at 1:53 am
Jay Randal Says:

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld have been preparing for war on Iran for several years now! They are ready to do it now, so the dreaded October surprise maybe an attack on Iran?! This reminds me of Hitler attacking Soviet Union, which backfired onto Germany badly, so Iran might end up as Bush's Napoleonic Waterloo too!
September 18th, 2006 at 2:56 am
Tobey+Tall Says:

If Iran had nukes it dont bother most of the world as we do not have a karmic debt to pay

This is the Big trouble America stirs up hornets nests then gets paranoid and fuels the ENDTIMERS

I suggest stop your BAD foreign policy, your still not listening or learning we have been telling you this for about 40 years now

Imagine the world we would be living in now if you had listened,
September 18th, 2006 at 4:22 am
Druthers Says:

Your Title, "What a War With Iran Would Look Like."
Shouldn't it be, "What An Attack Against Iran Would Look Like?"
Everyone goes along with the Republican idea that when we attack it is because of "them" instead of Cheny-Rumsfeld planning.
September 18th, 2006 at 7:42 am
Jason+M.+Hendler Says:

How do you know this isn't preparation for a larger UN action, as opposed to a unilateral move by the US? European nations seem to be in favor of sactions and other actions, which require military enforcement.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:06 am
Paul Says:

Druthers,
Your sentiment is right on, if we assume Iran and radical Islam are free, peace loving societies, that don't pose a threat to our way of life. The problem is, everything we hate about the current administration, is already in place in those societies. Remember the Christian who was going to be executed strickly because of his beliefs, what about the young women who are killed because they were raped. Women can't vote and non-believers are beaten or killed. What about the violence and threats that arose from the Danish cartoons and the recent attacks launched after the Pope's comments. Do we block out the terror bombings throughout the world since 9-11. More importantly, do we still ignore the attacks before 9-11. Contrast the events that happened in Abu Grahib with televised beheadings. We are faced with a volatile set of beliefs that are becoming more and more incompatable with our beliefs. I believe this situation won't just go away. Do you?
September 18th, 2006 at 9:53 am
TerrytheTurtle Says:

#56 - (1) nope, Chirac is not in favor of sanctions, neither are the Russians, I suspect. That leaves the British (no surprise there, here's a treat Tony) and Germany...(hmm let's see what Merkel does in response to Chirac). (2) the IAEA doesn't see the same interpretation of the nuclear evidence as Chimpy does (surprise - just like deja vu all over again), so what evidence do you ahve that there will be unanimity on miltary action at the UN? (3) China is a veto on the security council....do you see the Chinese voting for UN military action on a prospective major supplier of their energy after they refused on Iraq? I guess Stanford does not offer a well-rounded education, after all.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:02 am
TerrytheTurtle Says:

Paul are we on about Iran or Islam in general?

(1) women stand as candidates and vote in Iranian elections (although they can't go to soccer games - Ahmajinedad wants to change that)
(2) Christian threatened with execution - that's the Glorious American Built Democracy of Afghanistan, not Iran
(3) Abu Ghraib versus beheadings "We're not as bad as they are" - not exactly a rallying cry for moderates anywhere that.

While you do identify some legitimate reasons to be concerned - radicals whipping up the polity with distortions about cartoons and the Pope. The question of this thread is: do you think that Iranian moderates will be thrilled to see the US bombing the crap out of their infrastructure and rise up against the cruel rule of the mullahs? Why will Iran be different that the Lebanon?
September 18th, 2006 at 10:10 am
ReadyForChange Says:

I truly hope Bush and his admin aren't this dumb.

Wait, what am I saying? Of COURSE they're that stupid!

Even IF the reasons for war with Iran were good and true (which they aren't), it would turn out to be dissastrous for the U.S. and the world.

As mentioned above, the oil flow from Iran would be shut down and all the hostilities in the region would send the price of oil through the roof. You ready for $10 / gallon gasoline? That may seem cheap when all is said and done.

Regardless, there is NO good justification for attacking Iran. The US has no moral high ground to demand that any country stop producing nuclear technology. Not when we still have more nukes than any other country, not when there are OTHER nations that are hostile to US interests that have been proven to have nukes already, not when the US has become an aggressor nation that attacks premptively.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Margaret Says:

Bombing Iran would send any moderates running into the arms of the extremists.

Look at what's happened in this country after 9-11.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:54 am
RUCerious Says:

Once again the Chimperator is poised to take unilateral military action in violation of international law and common sense.
Unless the US is willing to discard its nuclear arsenal, what makes us think we can demand that no other country have nuclear weapons?
The rest of the world sees through this hypocrisy and our standing in the world community has never been lower.
If a nuclear Iran is a threat to Israel, let Israel deal with it.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:03 am
Jmiller Says:

"How will you stop Iranian nukes?"

With the anti-missile "shield" that GWB has been pouring billions into his entire time in office despite a noted lack of people who were able to launch missiles at us when he took office.

Hey, we gotta make sure that *that* money isn't wasted, right?
September 18th, 2006 at 11:40 am
fubar Says:

These wars are not spontaneous. They are part of a strategy to leverage our primary ally's military dominance in the middle east (against smaller countries like Lebanon and Syria) to control the biggest source of contention in the next century -- the dwinding supply of oil. Waa, waa...oil Israel etc, i know it's conspiracy. But they wrote a paper about it . Israel gets security out of the deal.

Iraq first. Lebanon second. Syria third. Iran last.

The goal isn't to transform these countries, it's to install friendly governments that favor the US over our biggest rivals for resources and ensure our prominence (not a bad goal, but I have a problem with the body count). The implentation of their strategy has been bad, but that won't stop this administration from moving on to the next target, whatever the reason.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:44 am
Raoul Says:

The National Intelligence Estimate recently doubled the timeline for Iran to have nukes, from 5 years to 10 years. It takes 90% enrichment to make a bomb- Iran can do 3-5%. It would take 100 times more cascading reactors than Iran now has to reach 90%.
So let's stop this Republican-type nonsense that Iran has nukes.

Now Israel is armed to the teeth with nukes. I don't think Iran is suicidal.

Iranians were watching "Dallas" 20 years ago, discussing who shot JR. All we have to do is quit demonizing them and let our culture seep in, and the society would evolve towards freedom. The same process is at work in China and Russia.

Open a few McDonalds and Starbucks in Teheran. Sounds better than nuking them, eh?
September 18th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Paul Says:

Terrytheturtle,
You have made points I can use. Thank you. I guess, the problem I am having is that for whatever reason: poverty, U.S. diplomacy failures of the last half century, growing frustration with Israel, more available information, etc; I feel that there is a steadily building hatred of the west (not just America) by more and more Muslims. I feel a significant part of Muslim society is unwilling to accomodate western life and more importantly eliminate western life. Is my fear unfounded? Would the situation reverse if we let Muslims live in peace? Can both ideaologies cross assymilate? Can we co-exist? I just don't see a wide western movement unwilling to co-exist with Muslims. Where is the moderate Muslim voice?
September 18th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
big+papa Says:

If Bush and Cheney don't go (to war)...

...NOBODY should...
September 18th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
big+papa Says:

Paul # 66,

it's NOT just Muslims that are growing a healthy hatred for "THE CRIMINAL BUSHITE JUNTA"- (not to be confused with the majority of the American electorate)...

...it's the Chinese, Venezuelans, (South America as a whole region), Russians, and EU...

...Phony Tony (aka Tony "the Poodle") is on his way out...

...and if the Iranians are attacked America will become a REAL pariah...

...inviting pre-emptive military action against the american homeland (nukes or no nukes)...
September 18th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
Global Geopolitics News » Iranian News - Australia urges negotiation to settle Iran’s N-case Says:

[...] What war with Iran would look like. Think Progress, DC - 19 hours ago… t actually command the ships out of port; they just said be ready to move by October 1. A deployment of minesweepers to the east coast of Iran would seem to … [...]
September 18th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Jason+M.+Hendler Says:

#58, turdle,

I stated that a UN military force would be required to enforce sanctions, not invade. NATO may choose to do it, if the UN fails to call for sanctions.
September 18th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
TerrytheTurtle Says:

#70 - well thanks for that clarification, because you were not clear with your distiction between invasion and military blockade. Since the rest of your strawmen have dried up and blown away, looks like we're all wrapped up. In other news, Australia joins France in emphasizing negotiation over sanctions.
September 18th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
someone Says:

After reading all the comments I would like to said that I am afraid more of this administration that even the war that i fought two years ago. We need first to fix our country and then try to fix the rest of the world Shame on me that at some point in my live thought that all they said was true . I don't like even to write the word president or Bush because the next step that this goverment is going to take is start sending their own people to Guantanamo or other place Who knows.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
Caseybabes Says:

Ah, good................I've found another sicko liberal website to entertain me.
September 19th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Bobbyray Says:

They lie, they cheat, they steal, they fix elections, all that is left for a free peple to do is take to the streets!
September 19th, 2006 at 10:46 am
wild voice Says:

the usa has a long score to settle with the iranians . since the downfall of the shah of iran and the coming of ayatollah khomeini to power in the late 70's (i guess it was during the weakest democrat president jimmy c. administration) the usa has taken several humiliating blows from iranians and their allies in the middle east : the us embassy hostage crisis in teheran that lasted 444 days, the disastrous rescue operation in iranian desert, the consecutive bombings of us embassy and the marine barracks bombings in beirut lebanon with 260 marines killed the subsequent shameful withdrawal of the marines and the western forces 100,000 strong from the coast of lebanon. the kidnapping of airliners in beirut airport and of american diplomats and journalists by pro iranian supporters, the constant verbal attacks against the us and the west ( remember the burning of us flags ,the crowds chanting on every occasion for over three decades now down with america the big satan ) not to forget pro iranian hizballa leader challenging the american armies to come and battle him and last but not least the iranian president ahmadi najjad threatening the us and defying the world to try to stop his nuclear program all the while pretending to negotiate in order to buy time to finish his first shiite nuclear bomb and put the whole world into a fait accompli.
for # 65 i dont think sitting comfortably in your lazy boy chair drinking a six pack is going to make the iranian threat go away. wishful thinking does not work with iranian clerics who control every aspect of iranian people every day life from the political to the religious to the military. sheer intimidating and overwhelming power might help stop these radical people from continuing their mad quest for revenge from the us and the west in general.
September 19th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
Alex Says:

I totally disagree with statement "Bombing Iran would send any moderates running into the arms of the extremists". They are already (Iranian government) extremists, it can't be worse. That would be a big mistake allowing Iran to have nucs. They are backing terrorists and once they have nucs, can we be sure they will not blackmail us, that they won't produce nuclear suitcases and give them away to terrorists? If diplomacy won't work, then Iran nuclear facilities should be destroyed, as well as supporting infrastructure. If we don't do this now, we'll pay later and price would be much more higher. I agree that Irak was a Bush's mistake. But Iran is a real thing, there's no mistake here. Having a lunatic with nucs is not an option.
September 21st, 2006 at 1:36 pm
Keefer Says:

People...you need to grow up. This is the real world. There are people who want you dead because you have American DNA. Diplomacy won't work with these twits. I figure their average education at about the 6th grade. They are incapable of reflective thought due to the severe restrictions imposed on them by their psychotic belief system. We are the great Satan and Allah is on their side, so they allow no dialogue because they have the true path (even if it is a suicide belt). They use intimidation instead of engagement and diplomacy. MAD won't work because certain delusional leaders want to usher in the Last Days Boogie. You have a choice. Grow up or continue to sing Kumbayah and smoke whatever you're smoking. You think your Bush bashing and down with America rhetoric makes you special or is going to protect you from the next anthrax strike or smuggled nuke that comes in from across the border? American GI's are protecting your right to complain, even if it is stupid, self-indulgent, and sedititious. Before you drift off and spout your next rationalization, ask yourself if you have the guts to do what your US Military is doing for you.....I thought not.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Canuck Says:

Comment to Alex.... You say "Having a lunatic with nukes is not an option."
Hmmm... who exactly are you talking about ? Let's see, last I remember, Iran doesn't have any, but the US has plenty. (Not that we need more countries joining the club.) ... Now, I don't know if I would describe good ol GWB as a lunatic, but let me state that he causes many thoughtful people around the world a great deal of discomfort !

And Keefer: You say: "They are incapable of reflective thought due to the severe restrictions imposed on them by their psychotic belief system". ... "They use intimidation instead of engagement and diplomacy." ... hmmm .. now who does that describe ?

In all seriousness ... yes, there are terrorists out there, but they are not hiding under every rock.... the REAL threat to to the US as a free and democratic nation is from within. I challenge you to examine this premise quite carefully, and thoughtfully, for this now seems quite obvious.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:52 am
Fritz3 Says:

They aren't going to try to justify this with intelligence. This is not about terror, and it isn't about nukes. It's about the mid-term elections. They're gonna gin up a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident and go for the emotional impact ("Iran attacked us. We must respond. Rally the nation. These colors don't run"). It will come down the 3rd week of October. Rove has already told Republican political operatives to expect an "October surprise". These dots aren't hard to connect.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Keefer Says:

Canuck and Fritz3...Every time has a critical issue that dwarfs all others. In the past, it was Nazism, the rise of Communism etc.. In our time, we are tasked with the appropriate response to Islamic terror. That is the core issue. If it were something else, the rest of the country would have agreed with you and we'd have a different president...but we don't.

What I was alluding to is that Islam, although once a flowering movement rich in debate and discourse about its direction, is no longer that. Mullahs now are the sole arbiter of what correct interpretation is. It has been completely overtaken by the Arab faction which is, at its heart, a tribal culture. Although there are Muslims all over the world, the Arabs claim 'founders privilege' and have used intimidation to displace intellect and now all Muslims must march to the tune of the Arabs or be viewed almost as treasonous. In Arabian tribes, lowly members must pledge absolute allegiance to the sheik. Identity and security depends on conformity. Independent thought can have fatal ramifications. It's totally male dominated, no useful roles for women, no freedom of expression, intimidation is everywhere. Dissent is considered treason. It is a culture in decline, unable to adapt to the modern world and incapable of changing course because of the systematic culling of those who express alternative views. They constantly harp about their history but realistically, not much has emerged from this culture for the last thousand years. Muslims, in their passive acceptance of believing what others have told them to think, have placed themselves in a very dangerous position. The rest of the world, public protestations to the contrary, will not allow people like the Iranian whack job to have nukes. Naturally they will let the US get all the bad PR but behind the scenes, they'll breath a sigh of relief. Unfortunately, what this means for Muslims could be great suffering. The whackjob may be willing to die but I believe that Muslims as well as Christians and Jews feel the same pain when their children die. Muslims are on a runaway train but don't know it yet. I wish you were right about diplomacy but at some point, you have to see the world as it is. Right now we are playing poker and maybe we can intimidate or bluff our way into a scenario that will benefit both worlds. But if not, it all comes down to power, and they do not have it. Your thoughts about midterm elections etc., indicates to me that you need to give thought to precedence of issues.
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:11 pm
Kathy Shrum Says:

I have never feared the end of the world so much as I do under Bush II. I see Karl Rove is paying well these days with all war hawk comments. Poor Iranians must be terrified of the US, and all because their country lies over millions of barrels of black gold and President Torture cant stand his lack of control over them. I wonder if they will soon be able to get a Bachelors in the Administration of Pain, perhaps or a graduate Degree in Torture Medicine? What has our country come too? I read the Gestapo specialized in water boarding. When are ordinary Americans in for this treat? Isnt preemptive war the reason Germany was attacked. When is the rest of the world going to attack us out of their fear of preemptive attack?
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:59 pm
ptr/ rotterdam Says:

Hi, i am a new kid on the block from Holland.
We follow the discussion about the moves from WH, and the bush cons. I am very impressed about your spirit.

So we have to get together after you impeach your president and bring him to The Hague. Together with the rest of the cons.

We would be very much obliged to bring them to Court.

Do we really have to bleed, all over the place, all the time??
Are we really so stupid? Cant we just raise our children on a beautiful planet and explore all differences and possibilities, without
having to destroy the future.

I shiver but want to be present. This is not the end, only the beginning of mankind waking up and start being a family.
I think together we have a chance to beat this buggers.
Grts
September 25th, 2006 at 11:42 am
Eurotrash Says:

Kids, sit down for a while and think this over:

Iran will not be allowed to get as far as actually building a nulcear weapon that is capable of reaching Israel (what people seem to forget is that having a nuke is not enough, you need the means to deliver it). Consider North-Korea a "slip of the pen" by former US governments.

Sound Intelligence is what its all about folks. If there is enough, not the US will attack Iran, but Israel will (US will give logistical support). It will not be be a full blown war (the US cant afford 3 fronts, 2 is enough) but surgical strikes aimed against specific targets (nuclear facilities)

Recon has probably been done already....

Few more tips:
Try to analyse world politics without the anti- this or anti- that rhetoric. THINK without being partisan. That will help to keep a discussion factual and analytical.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
wild voice Says:

to mr holland #82
wake up man before it is late, i know in holland they legalize all sorts of drugs and paraphenelia do you think in iran they let you smoke a joint or let you have your favorite drug at will?????
what you dont understand is that there are some bad people around who hate your guts just because you are freeeee mellow and happy, and believe me they will try to strip this freedom from you and force their political social and religious beliefs down your throat once you let them.
the iranian regime is a case in point and sadly it is not the only exemple in the world today of religious authoritarian regimes but it is currently the most outstanding exemple because of the erratic and dangerous behavior of the lunatic ahmadinajad and the shiite crowds whom he controls be it in iran in irak in lebanon or elsewhere in the world.
now you might tell me why should i bother to go and fight these fanatic people? i might stay in holland and forget about the whole thing and just live my life. the problem is these people have sympathizers all over the western world and probably right down your street in holland . they infiltrated europe the us and the western world in general but in return the west did not infiltrate their countries which are off limits to your "'corrupt" civilization. and guess what mr holland these people as a reminder dont believe in the motto live and live and the words tolerance and universal human rights do not exist in their dictionaries and certainly not to the extent the west understand them. to them the west is a decadent place and western civilization is a chaotic and immoral civilization.
knowing all that believe me someone like the egocentric and mad mr najad with a nuclear weapon at hand would not make me sleep at night and europe is not that far from iran. ask your leaders who dealt with the iranian negotiators and they will tell you how though and futile it is to negotiate with these people in order to convince them to stop they nuclear program which is almost certainly geared for military purposes.
mr holland if i were you whether you like george w bush or not, i would thank god there is still a superpower called the us who is willing to stand against such crazy regimes that are threatening the whole world.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Patriot Says:

One can only hope that Bush has the balls to take out the Iranian Hitler before it's too late (like with North Korea). Many here need to grow a spine and face the reality that a nuclear Iran (as with a nuclear Korea) is a horrific thing.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:18 am
Realist Says:

Ok Time Out....reality check here...

1. If Iran Wanted Nukes they could just buy them from russia korea or china...

2. Why should american sons and daugthers die for GWB personal vendetta.

3. Why should we waste our hard earned money on raised gas prices just because bush needs more money to kill.

4. If arabs want to kill each other fine, why should our boys and girls die for their cause...

5. Why is our government killing for oil? isnt that wrong?

6. Lets just spend money on our country instead of wars.

7. how many americans must die for nothing?
December 25th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
camilla belle wallpaper Says:

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Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin..
March 16th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

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