White House proposes interrogation compromise.
By on Sep 18th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
White House proposes interrogation compromise.
CNN reports, “Hoping to break a deadlock with key Republican senators, the White House is making changes to its proposal to allow the CIA to continue using ‘alternative’ interrogation techniques on suspected terrorists.” No word on the specific language. McCain’s office said he would respond tomorrow.
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I’m not sure what sort kind of compromise there can be. It’s like compromising on child molestation. Either you’re for torture or you are not. Either you want a country that tortures people or you do not.
September 18th, 2006 at 8:53 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
Yea! Another version of a bad plan!
Go Team Terror!
September 18th, 2006 at 8:55 pmIf you didn’t watch Keith Olbermann’s Countdown this evening (just aired) please catch the rerun later tonight. He skewers Bush. Rakes him over the coals.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:02 pmWhat the f*ck is the difference if GWB can use a signing statement any time he pleases?
September 18th, 2006 at 9:05 pmArticle 3 of the Geneva Conventions has been effectively used since 1947. Why, all of a sudden, are we having problems interpreting it? I suspect that those who have violated it have a vested interest in having these problems of interpretation….makes sense to me that their butts are on the grill and they may be facing an international tribunal and criminal charges because of their past actions.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:07 pmim curious to know whether the bush administration asked the dems to review the changes?
September 18th, 2006 at 9:11 pmAh found these Geeneever Cunvenshuns to be more difficult to read than those 3 Shakespeares.
-Torquemada Bush
September 18th, 2006 at 9:14 pmIs there a definition of ‘torture’ that applies to the Convention as a clear interpretation?
O’Reilly with whom I seldom agree had a list of what is purported to be the language causing Senators to balk at the legislation.
O’Reilly pointed out many of these techniques are used by law enforcement everyday. I’m missing what is described as ‘torture’ in the interrogations.
I’d like America to be the high road and beacon of behavior, but to what degree do we hamper ourselves if a clear definition of torture isn’t stated. We aren’t at war with a state or commonality, these are terrorists who most certainly would not sign a Geneva Convention.
I’m struggling with this, and whom to see as correct.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:21 pmrich, come on, what law enforcement agency waterboards their suspects? What law enforcement agency subjects their suspects to hypothermia or stress positions? I know you aren’t stupid…don’t buy the bullshit that the moron right is selling.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:53 pm#8 The Geneva Conventions were purposely vague in order to prevent a George W. Bush-type from stretching it. This provides a war crimes tribunal the flexibility to determine what torture is, based on a reasonable interpretation of each specific case. Also, if they listed specific methods, any Bush-like creep could think up new stuff and claim it’s not torture because it’s not on “the list”.
Common sense tells us that waterboarding is torture and just plain immoral.
September 18th, 2006 at 9:58 pmI am very disappointed rich…”O’Reilly said”?
September 18th, 2006 at 9:58 pmInterrogate, but follow the law.
Torture does not result in the truth. It results in the tortured saying whatever the torturer’s want to hear.
Didn’t you ever wonder why so many Russians ended up this the Gulag in Siberia? It wasn’t because they were subversive; it was because of their Governments paranoia. Same with Nazi’s occupying France/Poland and wherever else.
Looking at World leaders of today – WHO ACTS THE MOST PARANOID? AND BE HONEST. YOU KNOW IT IS GWB!!!!!!
September 18th, 2006 at 10:07 pmI am sorry rich…this time you bought the righty talking points. I thought you were bright enough to think it through.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:09 pmDo you know what John McCain said under torture?
This is well torture works…..
They asked him (McCain), ala Bush:
“Who are ‘ya buddies?”
(that G.W. Not’in gits by him…)
Under Torture, McCain gave them the starting line-up of the Green Bay Packers.
Way to go.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:19 pmYeah. Torture Works. And that’s what America stands for………. NOT!!!!
This modern day dicator needs to be removed from power real soon, before irreversible damage is done.
This is well torture works…..
insert HOW into that, and you have a sentence!
September 18th, 2006 at 10:31 pmSorry!
Typing by monitor light again tonight.
Anyone out there a Pediatric Epilepsy expert?
The compromise is as follows:
The Bush admin will change key language from “lots of torture” to “some torture”.
McCain will recieve a hug, Graham will recieve some prayers.
September 18th, 2006 at 10:32 pmHell – I’d away give away the 2006 Packers’ starting lineup without so much as having my arm twisted.
[pained fan of the green n' gold]
Seriously though – McCain capitulates on this and he’s lost his last little shred of credibility/dignity/whatever. If such a thing ever existed, that is…. *thinking: his recent bend-over for the Fundie Christians*
September 18th, 2006 at 10:37 pmWhy is torture ok? When did it become ok?
September 18th, 2006 at 10:39 pmhttp://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=9710
September 18th, 2006 at 11:01 pm“Very few of the tens of thousands of “suspects” that the U.S. has detained are guilty of anything. We know this because the U.S. Iraqi Command says that 18,700 Iraqis have been released since June 2004. U.S. officers told the International Red Cross that 70 to 90 percent of the Iraqi detentions were “mistakes.”"
Compromise for what? so another 70-90% 18,700 people can be freed to go tell others how they were abused for an mistake?
This does not qualify as a compromise. It is clearly an invitation for the GOP senators to abdicate by prostituting their principles in order to retroactively legalize the illegal activities of a traitor. Compared to Bush, Benedict Arnold was a saint.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:17 pmBoth the Bush bill and the McCain proposal prevent the individual from raising the Geneva Conventions. Under both proposals, there could be language banning torture in all its forms, which would be unenforceable by the victim. Only the victim’s government could raise the claim, assuming the victim’s government hasn’t been deposed by Bush and Company.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:26 pmAnyone out there a Pediatric Epilepsy expert?
Comment by trueblue
Wondered where you got to, true. I know a few personal injury attorneys, they usually know lots of docs. I’ll let you know what I can find out.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:28 pmOnly the victim’s government could raise the claim, assuming the victim’s government hasn’t been deposed by Bush and Company.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
So the White House is offering a compromise on something worthless? Typical…and shameful.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:32 pmZooey,
You are awesome.
I need to go to sleep, but I’ll email you.
Home early from school. Can’t really function. etc.
I’m really tired, but I forced myself to watch Bill Clinton. Now, I have an appointment with my pillow, but not before I say “Thank you” again.
:)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
good-night, all.
September 18th, 2006 at 11:40 pmFolks, I have to say I agree with waterboarding. Whats wrong with somebody forced to surf with those small boards?
September 18th, 2006 at 11:41 pmGoodnight, true.
Juan, I’m gonna give you such a smack! :)
September 18th, 2006 at 11:49 pmCompromising with Bush means he gets what he wants, or he just ignores the agreement anyways! Dubya Dunce Decider Despot is bad!
September 18th, 2006 at 11:54 pmJuan, I’m gonna give you such a smack! :)
Comment by Zooey
Im feeling like Brad now. ;)
September 19th, 2006 at 12:00 amIm feeling like Brad now. ;)
Comment by Juan+C
Brad! Oh, how could I forget our sweet Brad!? I wonder how he’s getting along without me…?
I’ve been missing you around here, Juan. I went to a college (American) football game on Saturday — lots of fun! Our team won, for once.
September 19th, 2006 at 12:12 amI’ve been missing you around here, Juan. I went to a college (American) football game on Saturday — lots of fun! Our team won, for once.
Comment by Zooey
Thank you, Zoo. The same here. TP is really slow. Theres no more 200-post threads. Is difficult to keep up with such a lag.
September 19th, 2006 at 12:20 amSomebody played in your college team? Im a fan of all loser teams. Losing has romance and when you win, it tastes like heaven. Winning all the time is pathetic.
Juan,
If winning after losing so much is like heaven, this team must be on top of heaven, because they’ve been losing for at least two years. Actually, I don’t go for the football, I go to enjoy the crowd. My dad goes for the football, and I go with him.
Winning all the time is pathetic.
I know some men who would choke up and die if they heard you say that. You are right, of course. How do you know how good winning feels, if you win all the time? :)
September 19th, 2006 at 12:31 amI better say goodnight, too, Juan. I’ve had a tiring day.
Oh! I meant to tell you, one of our Judges was in Mexico City this weekend, and he had the greatest time dancing with the ladies and talking to the taxi drivers. He was in absolute awe of a parade on one of the days. He speaks fluent Spanish, and loves all things to do with Mexico.
September 19th, 2006 at 12:38 amI know some men who would choke up and die if they heard you say that.
Comment by Zooey
We live in a world where it seems that the most important thing is to win, no matter what. There is an anecdote about two argentinian soccer journalists (soccer is life, there). The crucial question is dropped: whats the most important thing? (where the two only possible answers are, as always in soccer, playing well -offensively, risking, spectacular- or winning). The other answers in no time: winning.
No -answered the other- Its breathing.
Some people are like the first journalist. I prefer to be like the second one. The important things in life are often overlooked.
September 19th, 2006 at 12:48 amdiscussing
Good night, Zoo. Take care.
September 19th, 2006 at 12:52 amNo compromise. However, Bush’s PUBLIC apology would be accepted. RECONFIRM AMERICA’S FULL SUPPORT FOR THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS!
September 19th, 2006 at 1:49 amSounds like a job for FROZEN SCANDAL MAN
September 19th, 2006 at 2:18 amI’d like America to be the high road and beacon of behavior, but to what degree do we hamper ourselves if a clear definition of torture isn’t stated.
First off 70-90% of those released so far have no ties to al qaeda and you should remember that this was a ‘Freedom Operation’ as Bush once called it. Hardly a way to win the hearts and minds of the people to torture them and later on say it was a mistake. Bush and Cheney knew the Rules before they broke them, it’s not as if torture, the results of torture are unknown.
My question is –Why they decided they needed to torture these 70-90% that knew nothing in the first place?
September 19th, 2006 at 3:27 amIf Bush were a real man, he would fire Gonzales and the neocons. He would say he was given bad advice, and regrets that he didn’t know better than to follow it. He would order closed all the secret prisons, end the illegal policy of rendition, and order that all U.S. military detention facilities be run in strict accordance with the Geneva Conventions.
This would serve Bush and America’s reputation far better than his attempt to legalize torture.
September 19th, 2006 at 4:41 amIf any of you have been wondering where I am, this is just to let you know that my PC shit the bed last saturday night and that I’m alright. So I’m using my boss’s computer. Dunno when I’ll be back online again. I’m tryting to get a laptop. So until then, I’m just posting Nicholas Kristof’s latest atricle on AIDS in Africa.
God, I miss blogging. I actually dream about it.
September 19th, 2006 at 6:52 amThe recent story of Mr Arar should convivce everyone not only does the US lie and torture people but can’t be trusted to “do the right thing” when given authority:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N18316511.htm
No comprimise on liberty is acceptable.
September 19th, 2006 at 6:57 amFor humanity to survive, it is absolutely essential that bush, cheney, rumsfeld, rice, powell, wolfowitz, and feith be tried for crimes against humanity.
For the US to survive as a democratic republic it is absolutely essential that bush and cheney be impeached.
Illegal, unnecessary invasion, torture, and gulag must not be tolerated by humanity – the perpetrators of these crimes MUST be tried for their crimes in accordance with the rule of law if there is to be humanity.
September 19th, 2006 at 7:39 amIf Bush is successful in getting his legislation, or some derivation of it, through Congress, might other countries refuse to cooperate with the US on terrorism just as they refuse criminal extraditions because of the US death penalty? Just a thought…
September 19th, 2006 at 7:53 amW is looking for a personal pardon. This is what you call running to the rat hole. See them scamper. Time is running out befored an impeachment, so let’s change the rules. I hope he gets what’s coming to him. Due unto others, w.
September 19th, 2006 at 8:52 amSigning Statement.
September 19th, 2006 at 8:54 amIf any of you have been wondering where I am, this is just to let you know that my PC shit the bed last saturday night and that I’m alright.
Last PC that did that I took it outside and shot it…=)
Actually it was just the power supply that bit the dust…from my experiences it’s usually what takes a ‘crap’ when the PC dies unexpectedly..just saying..
September 19th, 2006 at 11:34 am