CIA Veteran Speaks: ‘There’s A Civil War In Iraq And Our Presence Is Contributing To The Violence’
CIA Veteran Speaks: ‘There’s A Civil War In Iraq And Our Presence Is Contributing To The Violence’
Dr. Emile Nakhleh spent 15 years in the CIA and retired in June as the Director of the Political Islam Strategic Analysis Program, “the intelligence community’s premier group dedicated to the issue of political Islam.” Harper’s Ken Silverstein scored the first interview with Nakhleh since leaving the CIA. Some key excerpts:
On Iraq:
I have come to believe that our presence is part of the problem and that we should begin to seriously devise an exit strategy. There’s a civil war in Iraq and our presence is contributing to the violence. We’ve become a lightning rod–we’re not restricting the violence, we’re contributing to it. Iraq has galvanized jihadists; our presence is what is attracting them. We need to get out of there.
On Bush’s campaign for democracy:
We’ve lost a generation of goodwill in the Muslim world. The President’s democratization and reform program for the Middle East has all but disappeared, except for official rhetoric. … Because of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and other abuses we have lost on the concepts of justice, fairness and the rule of law, and that’s the heart of the American idea.
On what to do in Iran:
I think it would be detrimental to our long-term interests to ignore the Iranian reality and let ourselves be blinded by our dislike for the current president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. … The growing influence of Hezbollah, and its leader Hasan Nasrallah, across the region and within the Sunni street, and the growing regional influence and reach of Iran, are two new realities that we should recognize and engage. Iran’s nuclear issue is as much a failure of the nonproliferation approach as it is one of belligerence. Here too, I think, creative policies of engagement are called for and are possible.
Read the full interview HERE.
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89 Responses to “CIA Veteran Speaks: ‘There’s A Civil War In Iraq And Our Presence Is Contributing To The Violence’”
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This dude hates Amurka. Nothing that a free Cuban vacation in an orange suit wouldn’t fix.
September 21st, 2006 at 4:00 pmSomeone is telling the truth! We can’t have this! Somebody swiftboat him!!
September 21st, 2006 at 4:06 pm“We’ve lost a generation of goodwill in the Muslim world.”
Yes, we were sooooo well-liked before. The bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, the first World Trade Center bombing, the destruction of our two embassies in Africa and Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, the bombing of the USS Cole, and, of course, 9/11 were all ways the Muslim world was expressing their previously held “goodwill” towards the United States…God, I am so upset that “goodwill” has been lost!
September 21st, 2006 at 4:11 pmI find it quite striking that after three and a half years the talk continues to be that the U.S. should BEGIN “to devise an exit strategy.” What a profund thought. It has only taken close to 3000 American deaths for the intellectual elites to realize something should be done. How long will it be until they realize, as Rep. Jim McGovern has articulated in today’s USA Today, that the U.S. should, finally, start withdrawing those troops as quickly as possible? One senses that if the rulers of this country had their children placed in danger, that there would have been an exit strategy implemented a long time ago.
September 21st, 2006 at 4:16 pmThese are comments from men who served in action but Americans prefer to listen to a coward President who skipped out in time of action and stayed drunk. Cheney is a coward who got 5 deferments so much for protecting this country. Then there’s Rummy who taught school and never went to war to protect the US oh yes but these guys can play games of war with our troops while calling them just numbers. The Bush boys torture prisoners for fun while McCain sucks up again. If McCain were a prisoner of war under King George he would be dead. But he doesn’t care about our troops just the promise of a fixed election for President. King George is planning on using the Atomic Bomb again this time on Iran as to kill innocent people because of the lies of King George. First out right lies about WMDs to invade Iraq now lies about a country thinking about something brings them an Atomic Bomb from the US. Notice North Korea has the bombs but no oil so their safe Bush wont bother them unless they have something to steal.
September 21st, 2006 at 4:21 pmFind out about the religious cult named Amway and its ties to the GOP:
http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/DOWNLOADBOOK2.html
September 21st, 2006 at 4:28 pmFrom an article I just read, it appears that the United States has decided to engage Iran militarily. You be the judge.
It appears the US has decided to attack Iran!
There’s nothing more to say on this one…
JAC
September 21st, 2006 at 4:29 pmDiscussing if we should leave Iraq isn’t speaking truth. He isn’t lying either. It is a debate. I think the Iraq War was VERY VERY WRONG. I also think we can’t leave. It is our mess and our responsiblity to clean it up. It is just way to selfish to leave now and turn the country over to Osama and other extremists.
Freedom, Democracy, and the Free market is every single humans right. Our invasion of Iraq was based on Bullshit, but now that we made a mess, we are responsible for every single death, both American and Iraqi. We also should make sure that once we leave, not only should they have all their rights (equal freedom and free makrets to tthe USA), we owe to these people to make their infrastrcture better then it used to be. The day that happens and they are able to secure themselves, we should leave. How long will this take? I have no clue and I am only mildly interested. Maybe we could send ever more troops to help secure Iraq faster.
Either way, leaving now would be selfish and we would kill the hope of all the Iraqi’s for freedom, Democracy, and a free market. I know I would feel mcuh worse. We were wrong to invade, but we can’t reverse that. So we were mislead about the invason, but we know owe it to the Iraqi people to have the create a stable democracy.
Also, I am amazed that he
September 21st, 2006 at 4:40 pm#3 that’s crap: http://www.comw.org/pda/0609bm37.html
September 21st, 2006 at 4:52 pmWe were wrong to invade, but we can’t reverse that. So we were mislead about the invason, but we know owe it to the Iraqi people to have the create a stable democracy.Roger Roger
By showing them that we believe in the rule of law. If we don’t show them that we can clean our own house of corruption, how can we expect them to follow our lead? Impeachment of Bush would show the world that starting a war to play out some neo-con Stratego fantasy has its consequences. Then we can go about correcting his mistakes . . .
September 21st, 2006 at 4:54 pmUnfortunately there is no intention to EVER leave Iraq. Don’t you guys get it? The ‘debate’ about cutting and running vs staying the course is illusory. Both arguments are designed to keep the US in Iraq forever, or until the oil runs out, which ever comes first. Billions are being spent on permanent bases in Iraq.
Please ppl don’t think that there is a real choice to be made here, the choice was made when the invasion commenced. Wake up to this and stop the futile, irrelevant debate, because thats simply designed to make you believe that there is actually a choice in this matter.
September 21st, 2006 at 4:57 pmGee, you think?
September 21st, 2006 at 5:00 pmAnd you had to spent 15 years in the CIA to know this?
“Yes, we were sooooo well-liked before. The […] were all ways the Muslim world was expressing their previously held “goodwill†towards the United States…God, I am so upset that “goodwill†has been lost!” Comment by Exley
What you mean by Muslim is extremist factions. When mideast goodwill is discussed, we are talking about the people in the government that are not part of the extremist movement.
You… you are aware that not all Muslims are terrorists, yes? They hate us for our ignorant citizens.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:04 pmBush: Nakhleh? Who is this guy Nakhleh?
September 21st, 2006 at 5:20 pmKarl, see what you can dig up on him. He doesn’t know what he’s talkin’ about. I know what I am doing. I am the decider. I don’t make mistakes. Ask me - I feel it in my gut. I don’t need no stinkin’ CIA analyst - - those guys don’t like me, because I am tougher than they were. I can make the tough calls, because I talk tough, and the world knows I am tough. I am commander in chief. Now watch me strut.
I have no problem if the Dems want to investigate Bush. If they find that he lyed about prewar stuff with Iraq, I am game for impeachment. Now if they simply find that Bush was using data and sources that believed Iraq had WMD’s, he didn’t lye. He just had crappy intel. Again, invading Iraq was wrong and investigating Bush should happen. You still can’t impeach him or anyone unless you can find hard evidence of a clear cut lie used to get America into a war. My gut tells me that Bush probably used flawed data or data that simply was from weak/bad sources. If that is true, then he didn’t lie, he is just a really crappy president.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:28 pmExley, re No. 3 - I don’t mean to pile on, but I agree with Ronin (No. 13). You seem to be lumping all Muslims and all Middle Easterners together. If, as you imply, the U.S. was roundly hated in the Muslim world, why would we have attempted to bring freedom and democracy to the Muslims in Iraq? Why would Pres. Bush tell the Muslim people of Iran that they deserve better than Ahmedinijad?
The fact is, the U.S. had plenty of good will among moderate Muslims throughout the Middle East before Iraq - especially after 9/11. I don’t know whether Nakleh’s view (of the lack of goodwill today) is accurate, but I’d wage he knows far more than you and I.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:30 pmYes, we were sooooo well-liked before.Comment by Exley
Yeah, that’s the point. Over the last generation or two we have supported every tin horn dictator, supplied weapons that killed millions of Arabs, and prop up current despots and tyrants. So a thinking person would act to gain the trust and appreciation of the people of the region instead of torturing , killing, and threatening them. But that takes intelligence, planning, and diplomacy - thre of thousands of things the current government is no good at.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:31 pmHmm, so he is saying that the Sunni and Shia would live in perfect harmony if we just left? He should give back his doctorial diploma and is a shining example of the logic that lead to the many intelligence failures.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:34 pmYou still can’t impeach him or anyone unless you can find hard evidence of a clear cut lie used to get America into a war.Comment by Roger_Roger — September 21, 2006 @ 5:28
Sure you can. He has violated FISA law, admitted it on TV, and stated he would continue to violate it regardless of advice not to continue. He has violated the War Crimes Act of 1996, admitted it on TV. Both are impeachable offenses.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:41 pmIt’s the GOP leadership and their blind-ass followers that have the intelligence failure. GWB has never opened his mouth without a lie coming out and anyone with 2 IQ points to rub together ought to god-damned well know it.
Anyone remember the principle of self-determination? Yeah, that thing that our Founders used as a cornerstone for mounting a revolution, that principle that was to apply to all peoples in all lands….Maybe Retired Republican Soldier should re-enlist and go sort out those crazy moozlums once and for all - Stupid cowboy wannabe cocksucker.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:43 pmHmm, so he is saying that the Sunni and Shia would live in perfect harmony if we just left?
And what business is it of ours if the Sunni and Sh’ia are going to fight for control. Diplomacy and incentives to live in peace are better than putting American soldiers between people with guns.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:44 pmTorture in Iraq ‘worse than under Saddam’
Torture in Iraq is worse now than it was under the regime of Saddam Hussein and “is totally out of hand”, according to a United Nations investigator.
“The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein,” said Manfred Nowak, a UN special investigator on torture, at a press conference in Geneva.
THAT MAKES BUSH A BIGGER WAR CRIMINAL THAN SADDAM
September 21st, 2006 at 5:44 pmIt’s not so much that they would live in peace, more that it is not our fight.
And I’m getting really goddamn tired of the people who talk about ‘peace and prosperity for the middle east’. Let me ask you this: if it’s such a big goddamn deal to you, are you willing to trade YOUR rights so that they can be free? Because that’s exactly what’s going on. In fact, I’ll do you one better: If they’re so deserving, why are you still living here, where citizen’s rights are on the decline? Shouldn’t you, by your own words, be clamoring to go live where ‘freedom is on the march’.
I WISH that every person who uses that fallacious argument would get a mandatory one way trip to the Middle East so they can learn the ’shocking’ truth.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:46 pmBush used “intelligence” that he knew was flawed in order to support his plan for invasion and supressed intelligence that didn’t support his plan for invasion. That is the same as lying. He can be both a crappy president and a liar at the same time.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:49 pm#13, 16…Ronin, Dave…I used the term “Muslim world” because that was the term used by the CIA analyst quoted by ThinkProgress. Personally, I don’t think all Muslims are terrorists at all. That is why I supported the liberation of Iraq. I believed that once liberated from the mosntrous Saddam Hussein the Iraqi people could create a tolerant, democratic nation that could serve as an example to other Arab Muslim nations…If I thought that all Muslims were terrorists I would never have cited the hope of a democratic Iraq as one of the reasons in favor of toppling Saddam.
My point was that the CIA analyst made it sound as if everything was hunky-dory between the U.S. and the Arab Muslim world before the invasion of Iraq but it all got ruined by our actions in Iraq. I was simply pointing out that such a contention is patently absurd given the history of radical fundamentalist Muslim violence against the U.S. over the past 20 or so years.
There were Muslims who hated us before the invasion of Iraq. And there are Muslims who hate us now. There were Muslims who had good will towards the U.S. before the toppling of Saddam and there are still Muslims with goodwill towards the U.S. today.
September 21st, 2006 at 5:55 pmSo many speak so cavalierly about the Iraq situation. Should we stay and finish the job or should we leave? Is the president to blame or was it just bad data? Is it about spreading democracy or stealing oil?
All this amounts to just sanctimonious babble as what is never discussed is the 100,000 plus dead Iraqis and hundreds of thousands more who have and are experiencing physical and mental trauma. Americans as a whole don’t give a sh*t about the Iraqis. Many here will say that they do, to them I offer this perspective.
If China acted on pumped-up and incorrect information and initiated a pre-emptive strike on the US that killed over 1,100,000 people (relative percentage), would your reaction be as muted? Sure you would be “shocked” and “appalled”, but would you give the same effort to remedy the situation as you have with Iraq?
You see, the point that Exley attempts to make with his/her demented and asinine sense of humor, is a valid one - Muslims don’t like americans. What Exley is too dense to understand is that because of attitudes like his/hers, and the unimaginable moral complacency of the US’s citizens, the view of the US by Muslims is completely justified. How can you expect Muslims to have any regard for you and your life when you have absolutely no regard for them and theirs? What’s worse is that they have empirical and irrefutable evidence to support their position. Americans have only a sanctimonious and delusional self portrait of “goodness†and “righteousness†which, as the evidence shows clearly, has no basis in reality.
If you were to access the situation honestly, something that does not happen in the US much these days, you would see that the most vile nation on the earth in regard to murdering innocent people is, in fact, the United States.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:02 pm“That is why I supported the liberation of Iraq.”—- Exley
No, you supported a war based on lies. The original reason for the war was the ever ellusive WMDs, not the so called liberation of Iraq.
Bushco was not honest, and you are not being honest
September 21st, 2006 at 6:03 pmSo, then you don’t believe that anymore, since you used the past tense of the word?
Even Bill Maher “believed” that was possible and gave Bush the benefit of the doubt. He has since come to realize that it was just a pipe dream.
Have you come to your senses yet?
September 21st, 2006 at 6:03 pm“There’s a civil war in Iraq and our presence is contributing to the violence.” Yes, that’s because with the new Iraqi government being predominantly Shi’ite, the Sunnis see us as taking the Shi’ite side. Most of the violence is being initiated by Sunnis who think they’ll be slaughtered (which they will be) if Iraq winds up with a Shi’ite-dominated government.
What we should be doing, therefore, is using the threat of our withdrawing in order to scare the two sides into hammering out a power-sharing deal.
I was opposed to the invasion, but now that we’ve broken Iraq, pulling out too soon now will most certainly lead to civil war because to both sides it will be an all-or-nothing struggle. And an all-out civil war will be bad news for us. We could even end up with another Iran on our hands.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:05 pmHey Ronin, other than spending an extra few minutes in a line at the airport…what rights have you lost?
Quit your bitchin cause there’s very bad people out there who want us taking a dirt nap. You gasbags are fighting US at every turn, then when we do get hit, you’ll be the first to start bitchin about our lack of national security!
Say something positive and clill out dude!
You think Hillary and Ned Lamont will fix everything. Use a tad of that grey matter……
September 21st, 2006 at 6:07 pmI just learned this - am I the last? Kate Obeirne, the sharp tongued, Republican attack dog commentator is married to Jim Obeirne, a Republican appointee who was in charge of deciding who gets contracts to Iraq.
From the WaPo:
To pass muster with O’Beirne, a political appointee who screens prospective political appointees for Defense Department posts, applicants didn’t need to be experts in the Middle East or in post-conflict reconstruction. What seemed most important was loyalty to the Bush administration.
O’Beirne’s staff posed blunt questions to some candidates about domestic politics: Did you vote for George W. Bush in 2000? Do you support the way the president is fighting the war on terror? Two people who sought jobs with the U.S. occupation authority said they were even asked their views on Roe v. Wade .
Many of those chosen by O’Beirne’s office to work for the Coalition Provisional Authority, which ran Iraq’s government from April 2003 to June 2004, lacked vital skills and experience. A 24-year-old who had never worked in finance — but had applied for a White House job — was sent to reopen Baghdad’s stock exchange. The daughter of a prominent neoconservative commentator and a recent graduate from an evangelical university for home-schooled children were tapped to manage Iraq’s $13 billion budget, even though they didn’t have a background in accounting.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:07 pmSounds like it’s time to smear this guy. Who wants to start the countdown?
September 21st, 2006 at 6:09 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
When it gets down to the nitty gritty it seems that most people of the Muslim faith will side with the extremists. It is sad but true. We have made this very easy for them.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:11 pmExley (No. 24), I hope you are right when you say “there are still Muslims with goodwill towards the U.S. today,” but I’m afraid the number is dwindling ever more rapidly … which, I believe, was the CIA analyst’s point.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:16 pmHey Ronin, other than spending an extra few minutes in a line at the airport…what rights have you lost?
Comment by Homer+Simpson — September 21, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
“Free speech zones” to prevent political protests. Arrest and removal from government events because of wearing the wrong T shirt or having the wrong bumper sticker on your car. Patriot Act sneak and peak secret searches in violation of the 4th Amendment. Arrest and detention without charges. We could go on.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:16 pmobaat,
You do not understand english, let me illustrate.
Who are the “extremists” - People “A” who don’t look like you and had nothing to do with an attack that knocked down a couple of buildings and killed 3,000 People “B”, or People “B” who have raped, pillaged, and burned People “A” and their country killing and wounding hundreds of thousands and demolishing their entire country in retaliation for something that People “A” had nothing to do with?
Now, go to your dictionary and look up “extremist” and see which “people” are most qualified for that description.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:23 pmOCT. 5
http://www.worldcantwait.org
What will You Do?
September 21st, 2006 at 6:26 pm“That is why I supported the liberation of Iraq.â€â€”- Exley
No, you supported a war based on lies. The original reason for the war was the ever ellusive WMDs, not the so called liberation of Iraq.
Bushco was not honest, and you are not being honest
Comment by Wayne — September 21, 2006 @ 6:03 pm
===================
The original name of Bush’s Iraq boondoggle was Operation Iraqi Liberation. This explains part of the reason for the invasion and destruction of Iraq.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:32 pmQuit your bitchin cause there’s very bad people out there who want us taking a dirt nap.
Comment by Homer+Simpson — September 21, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
=============================
The president should consider going after them instead of invading and destroying a Muslim country for who knows what reason.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:39 pmThis is the epitome of corruption and cronyism. He needs to resign immediately and the superior who “mandated” his actions needs to either resign or be relieved of his responsibilities. GOP corruption has so infiltrated our government and lifestyle that americans need to stand up and stop it by voting in November to rid the Congress of ALL Republicans. If people fail to oust these criminals running our government, then they have no one to blame but themselves for enabling them to continue their corruption spree.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:46 pm
Dr. Emile Nakhlhe’s perspective offers insight from a factual, day-to-day basis.
The United States has reached its pinnacle and the Bush rhetoric has &
will continue to create a downward slide: we have lost repect world wide
due to Bush’s unilateral, “you’re either with us or against us” style of governing. Bush us a man who is capable of only listening to those whom he considers “loyal.” However, with each advisor seeking their own end, loyalty is compromised. Policy built on false statements, on cronyism, and corruption is doomed to fail.
Relative to Iran: Bush needs to invite dialogue with Achmadinijad. By refusing discussion, Bush is creating additional political tension and endangering Americans. However, time has proven that Bush’s comdemnation and defiance toward Middle Eastern culture results in hostilities against all of us.
Regarding Iraq: this topic deeply saddens me. Those that comprised the Office of Special Plans must be incarcerated for manipulating accurate data to induce war. I became aware that something was terribly wrong on March 5, 2003; when Newt Gingrich issued a declaration of war to the officers attending the Capstone Event: a civilian!
These Republican “Patriots” have engaged in the shameless sacrifice of U.S. servicemen and women at the bequest of their corporate cronies in the energysector and defense contractors; to the detriment of all of us.
With the news of every deployment, my heart breaks.
So here’s the ultimate question for all of you to consider:
IF, another nation came to our shores, killing thousands and thousands in their wake; to access a natural resource our country had, and their country lacked: how would Americans respond?
September 21st, 2006 at 7:05 pmExley #3
September 21st, 2006 at 7:17 pmCan you look at ANYTHING in a nuanced manner? Can’t you imagine that many Muslims who previously were at least neutral toward the U.S. might now be against us because our recent policies reinforced the views of the Muslims who hated us?
While a civil war would be tragic in Iraq, it would be THEIR civil war. Our democracy had one to “test whether that nation or any nation so conceived can long endure”. And it was a horrid war but did any other country come in and try to rescue us from ourselves? Should they have? Further, what if Hussein and his sons died in an accident or were assassinated by an Iraqi and the regime was changed in this way - isn’t it reasonable to assume that a civil war would have started? In such a power vacuum would/should the U.S. rush in and occupy the country. We did not go to Iraq for Iraqis - we went for ourselves.
September 21st, 2006 at 7:30 pmExley and Roger,
Freedom, democracy, and free markets are myths jammed down your throat by your corporate masters! The U.S. isn’t interested in any of those purely theoretical notions.
t-mac
September 21st, 2006 at 7:31 pmFreedom, democracy, and free markets are myths jammed down your throat by your corporate masters! The U.S. isn’t interested in any of those purely theoretical notions.
t-mac
Comment by t-mac — September 21, 2006 @ 7:31 pm
========================
I do believe Neo-cons think freedom and democracy are myths but they sure as hell believe in laissez-faire capitalism which will ultimately lead to a small rich ruling elite while the rest us are designated to the working poor.
September 21st, 2006 at 7:54 pmBaa-hhaaa Corporate master…ruling elite. You’re pretty funny Kommrade. Get off your “arse” and get an education, (not from one of those pinko liberal arts schools) and get a job to get ahead you whinny parasite of society.
Why do you think most of the worlds saves their pennies & finds ways to sneek into this county to work sub min wages cleaning toilets at Denny’s in Riverside. Becuase it’s 1000% better than the crap whole country they came from! Look at the entire continent of Africa, 80% of the Middle east, India, China and don’t get me started on Central America.
God Bless America and our capitalist system.
September 21st, 2006 at 8:14 pmHomer,
I see that your 3rd grade “edumacation” is serving you very well in ensuring that you remain a blissfully ignorant slave. Since you seem to enjoy the servitude, I won’t attempt to pull back the curtain for you unless you request me to.
However, I am curious. Do you wear knee-pads or do you prefer to just bend over and grab your ankles?
September 21st, 2006 at 8:48 pm47
With statements that brazen and uninformed, I’m fairly sure he’s taking it in the skull.
September 21st, 2006 at 8:51 pmBaa-hhaaa Corporate master…ruling elite. You’re pretty funny Kommrade. Get off your “arse†and get an education, (not from one of those pinko liberal arts schools) and get a job to get ahead you whinny parasite of society.
======================
-Huh?!? Something is seriously wrong with you.
Why do you think most of the worlds saves their pennies & finds ways to sneek into this county to work sub min wages cleaning toilets at Denny’s in Riverside. Becuase it’s 1000% better than the crap whole country they came from! Look at the entire continent of Africa, 80% of the Middle east, India, China and don’t get me started on Central America.
=====================
-This is exactly what corporations want. They want us to compete with people who will accept dirt cheap wages so they can maximize their profits.
September 21st, 2006 at 9:00 pmRe: 47,
September 21st, 2006 at 9:15 pmThat’s funny, I know funny and that, my friend IS FUNNY… grab your ankles… HILARIOUS!
Recently retired head of key CIA unit calls for Iraq “exit strategy†… What unit was he head of?
September 21st, 2006 at 9:24 pmNo wonder everyone hates us. “Is it any wonder our youth are alienating, our electorate cynical, our allies distancing themselves, and our foes more brazen then ever? ”
http://www.miserywatch.com/2006/09/bush_policies_i.html
September 21st, 2006 at 9:38 pm“The reason most people do not achieve success is because it’s disguised as hard work”
September 21st, 2006 at 9:39 pm-Albert Einstein
BushCo’s easy Iraq exit strategy, coming soon:
“Head East & Don’t Stop Until You Hit Tehran”
The mistake people make is in thinking there wasn’t a plan, there was, it’s just a rather uncomfortable one to admit to.
Anglo.
September 21st, 2006 at 9:53 pm#28, Spudgeboy….
I freely admit that it appears less and less likely that Iraq will take advantage of this opportunity with which they have been presented to create a tolerant, democratic, civilized society. Similarly, I freely admit there may be no way to stop the Muslim-on-Muslim carnage going on in Iraq right now. It is a tragedy.
The United States and its Coalition partners, by deposing the monstrous Saddam Hussein, provided the Iraqi people with a golden opportunity to create a modern, tolerant democratic society. Tragically, it appears the Iraqis are squandering this opportunity. Rather than creating a decent, civilized society for themselves and their children, they appear to be indulging in ancient tribal and ethnic divisions. In the run up to liberation, many of my liberal or “progressive†friends argued that democracitizing Iraq was impossible because the Arab-Muslim world was incapable of forming such a society. I, on the other hand, believed that given the opportunity, the Iraqi people would embrace freedom and tolerance.
Perhaps I was wrong and my progressive friends correct. I am not yet sure. When I see the daily Iraqi-on-Iraqi, Muslim-on-Muslim carnage, I am pessimistic. When I see millions of Iraqis go to the polls to participate in the democratic process, I am hopeful.
But lately my pessimism outweighs my optimism.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:05 pmAll of you folks who do not understand that certain infirmaries come with old age, the task of removing shoes and putting them back on in a standing position is a painful process. I tried flip-flops on one occasion and was told that they were not acceptable. Thankfully, the airline came to my rescue and offered slipper socks. Many of these HLS inspectors (The soup Nazi personified.) make the SS seem like a beneficent service.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:16 pmSystematic desensitization, anyone? The more they see, the less the right feels.
On the same note, it’s refreshing to see Exley and Roger Roger, et al, give a little ground on the issues rather than slingshotting talking points. Thank them for that, rather than b!tching them out. Maybe we CAN have some middle ground here. Let’s keep going kids.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:41 pmI know it’s hard to swallow, but I don’t think the Bush regimers are stupid. I think they have been very good at pitting the parties againt each other. If we keep drawing our swords on one another, blood will be shed. We all need to take a step back, and open our minds. ALL of us.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:58 pm# 57,
SouthPaw, Thank your comments. They are appreciated.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:12 pmYes, we were sooooo well-liked before. The bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, the first World Trade Center bombing, the destruction of our two embassies in Africa and Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, the bombing of the USS Cole, and, of course, 9/11 were all ways the Muslim world was expressing their previously held “goodwill†towards the United States…God, I am so upset that “goodwill†has been lost!
Comment by Exley
Exley GOD your warped.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:20 pmTrinary_Suka
September 21st, 2006 at 11:27 pmNo response to an idiot…. have a couple morebeers suks. You might be more coherent.
Perhaps I was wrong and my progressive friends correct. I am not yet sure. When I see the daily Iraqi-on-Iraqi, Muslim-on-Muslim carnage, I am pessimistic. When I see millions of Iraqis go to the polls to participate in the democratic process, I am hopeful.
But lately my pessimism outweighs my optimism.
Impression management will do that. Don’t let TV guide your emotions.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:31 pmTrinary_Suka
No response to an idiot…. have a couple morebeers suks. You might be more coherent.
Comment by Calahan
A. I don’t drink beer.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:35 pmB. I didn’t type that post, it came from here: http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=2282
C. And thirdly American/Iraqi Goodwill has been lost because of Bush and his unknown course.
D. Speaking of incoherent, apparently you didn’t read the posts.
Trinary_Suka
No response to an idiot…. have a couple morebeers suks. You might be more coherent.
Comment by Calaha
But as usual the third graders always resort to third grade diatribes
September 21st, 2006 at 11:37 pmYes, I am a moron, sorry suka. I didn’t read the posts, I just call people names and accuse them of stuff when I don’t have a worthy reply.When people make me look unknowledgeable I make Mcarthyist attacks. I apologize for my childish antics.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:43 pmhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/ wikipedia/ en/ 2/ 22/ ManlyBeachC.jpeg
Take a look at my picture..Thats why I like Dick Cheney so much, you know KBR Brown and root?
Yeh montana man Cheney I got your brokeback mountsin baaaaby!!
I love Dick!
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:08 amhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/ wikipedia/ en/ 2/ 22/ ManlyBeachC.jpeg
Thats me in the middle! Calloushands Calahan!
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:11 amFrom the article copy, “We’ve lost a generation of goodwill in the Muslim world. The President’s democratization and reform program for the Middle East has all but disappeared, except for official rhetoric. …”
Emile Nakhleh
*******WHICH generation is Emile referring to?? Three of four hundred years ago?? The “goodwill” Emile laments losing is akin to Nordstrom’s changing their liberal return policy, which is designed to maintain consumer loyalty.
Middle Eastern countries, with a commodity we need and value, have treated us a necessary customers for their product . We treated them as valued suppliers. But there is a lingering hatred for the West based on culture, religion and defense of Israel. Nothing more, Emile - nothing less…..
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:21 amFrom the article copy, “We’ve lost a generation of goodwill in the Muslim world. The President’s democratization and reform program for the Middle East has all but disappeared, except for official rhetoric. …”
Emile Nakhleh
*******WHICH generation is Emile referring to?? Three of four hundred years ago?? The “goodwill” Emile laments losing is akin to Nordstrom’s changing their liberal return policy, which is designed to maintain consumer loyalty.
Some of the tip-toe artists here at TP are ready to forego our alliance with Israel in order to somewhat placate the poor benighted Muslims. They remind me of eight year old girls on a playground who get in a cat-fight with another little girl and try to turn the entire group against her. (If this analogy offends fanatically observant Muslims, they are free to imagine the little girls wearing burkas.) Loyalty to friends and allies is valuable and valued - we don’t need to placate the unreasonable requests of our allies enemies.
Middle Eastern countries, with a commodity we need and value, have treated us a necessary customers for their product . We treated them as valued suppliers. (For this reasopn ALONE, I would LOVE to end our Middle Eastern oil dependence.) But there is a lingering hatred for the West based on culture, religion and defense of Israel. Nothing more, Emile - nothing less…..
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:30 amMiddle Eastern countries, with a commodity we need and value, have treated us a necessary customers for their product . –MA
Wha??
Shultz also introduced Governor George W. Bush to Condoleezza Rice, who in turn introduced Paul Wolfowitz to Governor Bush back in 1999. Shultz of course knew at the time that Wolfie and Perle and their neo-con Cabal were planning a war in Iraq [PNAC], and we know nice, little “doable” wars (Wolfie’s word), are meat and potatoes for the military-industrial complex. Instead of squeezing nickels and dimes out of the taxpayers to persuade Ghana [Iraq] to build a steel mill it doesn’t need and can’t run, even little wars run into the billions. And everyone gets into the act. The arms makers who produce airplanes, tanks, guns, jeeps and humvees get to blow up a country (like Iraq) and Bechtel and Halliburton come in right behind to rebuild it [US aid Natsios]. In announcing the Wolfowitz appointment today, President Bush said the World Bank is a big organization and Wolfowitz has experience running a big organization, the Pentagon!! As far as the military-industrial complex is concerned, Wolfowitz did a FANTASTIC job. He was only expected to plan for a $30 billion war and he screwed up so badly that it is now a $200 billion war, and counting. Anyone who can screw up that badly deserves a promotion, to the World Bank.
MA your stupid too, go drink a beer you drunk slut
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 amThe commodity we need and value is the military industrial banking war machine,,that’s what keeps the economy going..War, Billions of dollars from the taxpayers in America (suckers) and the people they blew the crap out of. Hell Iraq still owes 35 billion for the first war the Commodity is war and death MA, you should know that by now, stupid.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:39 amDr. Emile Nakhleh is a pro-Palestinian Arab “sociologist who has never lived in Iraq.
Let’s hear from someone who has suffered under Saddam and is grateful for his country to be liberated.
http://www.brookings.edu/comm/events/20060913iraq.htm
“I want to, ladies and gentlemen, lay out for you today our strategy of a country in transition, for a country that is at the crossroads of the Middle East, a country that is every day, regrettably, in the cross hairs of terrorism. It is a strategy of two compacts, a national compact and an international one, a strategy motivated by profound realism, not by defeatism. It is a strategy with a sense of urgency but with a refusal to give in to panic. It is a strategy without any regret for the just and moral act that was the liberation of Iraq from the racist and genocidal tyranny of Saddam Hussein, a strategy tempered by the difficult experience of recent years. Above all, it is an Iraqi strategy that is being implemented with broad international support and goes beyond the Coalition of countries that have supported our liberation.”
“Quibble the rationale for our liberation as much as some people may, nobody who has seen the mass graves, and as we discover more of them almost every month, nobody who has met the victims, nobody who knows of our decades of suffering can look the Iraqis in the eye and tell us that we would have been better off with Saddam Hussein still in power.”
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:31 amhere is the full truth about Olbermann
for mature audiences only
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myv08r_y6sU
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:40 amFrom FAKINSUPAs Post: It was written by Barham Salih, who holds the post of Deputy Prime Minister. Twice elected to parliament as a member of the Democratic Patriotic Alliance of Kurdistan, Salih has served in every Iraqi government since June 2004. As the former Prime Minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government in Sulaimani, he worked closely with the United States and oversaw a period of economic growth and reconstruction.
As you see this guy is Kurdish, they people that Saddam gassed as Rummy and Bushco looked the other way, of course he wanted the overthrow of Saddam. Also remember that Bush sr pulled out of Iraq and left the Kurds to deal with the aftermath of Gulf I;
http://www.diamandagalas.com/defixiones/KurdObserv0303.htm
Thats from the real ‘Kurds’ Fake Supa
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:50 amPrepare to be blown into the stoneages
The president of Pakistan claims the US threatened to bomb his country in the days after the 9/11 attacks.
Pervez Musharraf says he was warned Pakistan would be blasted “back to the Stone Age” if it did not help America.
The threat reportedly came from US deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage in the lead up to the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.
Mr Musharraf said: “The intelligence director told me that (Armitage) said, ‘Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age’.”
He added: “I think it was a very rude remark.”
Pakistan has been a key ally in America’s so-called “war on terror” since the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.
“One has to think and take actions in the interests of the nation and that is what I did,” Mr Musharraf said.
Mr Armitage has denied the claim, saying he would never say such a thing and did not have the authority to do so anyway.
The White House has declined to comment.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:19 amhttp://icasualties.org/ oif/ prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=9-2006
Just look at the American Trops deaths on the above link and all you republican voters tel me - IS IT WORTH IT
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:47 am[…] Speaking of torture…not only are we contributing to the Civil War in Iraq, but U.N. experts now say that Iraq torture is worse than under the rule of Saddam Hussein. Oh yeah…we definitely made a difference in Iraq….unfortunately we made things incredibly worse. […]
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:04 amThe announced this morning that armed for recruitment is way up. A new 80,000 will start training this month. I guess most people are still patriotic. Sure there are a very few loud unhappy people. But it looks like most still love this country and want to defend it. Unlike the libs and few complainers.
Vote Republican – “Again†(it feels good to be on the winning side)
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:49 amRE:80
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:55 amAre you one of the 80,000 happy guy?
Something wrong with a so-called progressive website posting statements by CIA people.
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:25 am# 73, Fa Kin Su Pa
Thank you for that posting. The words of Barham Salih, an Iraqi who actually lived and suffered under the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein, should be a powerful reminder to the many posters here who are re-writing history, depicting Saddam as some sort of benevolent leader.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:07 am#83 “depicting Saddam as some sort of benevolent leader” - holy straw man, Batman!
Meanwhile back in Iraq… http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/70610.html Saddam set a pretty high bar and yet, it appears to have been cleared…
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:54 amCorrection #84, back in Geneva.
In Geneva, Mr Nowak, who has not personally visited Iraq…
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:40 pmFor all you Bush worshipping TRAITORS…
…what Dr. Nakhleh is saying is…
…Bushiva has screwed up the Middle East in particular, and the world in general…
…the criminal Bushite junta is a domestic and foreign policy disaster…
…until there is new leadership in D.C.
…blood, guts, and American goodwill and treasure will continue down the toilet…
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:22 pm#30 You give the not-so-intelligent Homer Simpson a bad name. The rights we have lost are numerous. We have lost the the right of due process. The government can now detain YOU with no charges, withhold any legal defense for YOU and hold YOU forever if they say you have ever met the cousin of a friend of an aquaintence of a terrorist “suspect” because you may be part of some expansive terrorist cell. What kind of an idiot gives that kind of power to their government? YOU have lost the right not to be tortured if the government decides you may have given to a charity that you had no idea funneled money to terrorist organization. Oh, and it is this governments role to discern what is and isn’t a terrorist organization. You may be surprised to find out that teachers’ unions are terrorist organizations according to former Secretary of Education, Rod Paige. Ohh, and there has been a push to label animal rights and eco protesters as terrorists. You know who else classifies protesters as terrorists? China. Nice, we are now even with the Chinese…yay!! Bushie is attempting to take away our rights to a free press, free speech (with his Orwellian free speech zones). We have lost the right to be protected by the judiciary when the executive oversteps its bounds. Immunity from Illegal search and seizure is no longer right. The Patriot Act actually makes it illegal to represent a suspected terrorist. Don’t gloat, when the liberals take the White House maybe it will be YOU that is the terrorist. That’s right, we haven’t lost ANY rights!!
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:00 pm#77 - “Pervez Musharraf says he was warned Pakistan would be blasted “back to the Stone Age†if it did not help America”
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:27 am-Comment by To Be Tall
*******I was very impressed with the diplomatic style employed to enlist the aid of Pakistan - firm and direct. After all, if the United States were as viciously imperialistic as the “Chomsky-ites” here at TP allege, there would have been no request or arm twisting. We could have levelled the country and used it as a staging ground for land ops into southern Afghanistan/northern Pakistan. We gave them a choice. They weighed the options - and chose. But when you consider that much of Pakistan is only a few degrees removed from the Stone Age, I don’t think the choice was terribly difficult for Pervez, the coup master.
So smart MA…I am so glad I don’t need a lawyer.
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:03 amFeatured on BuzzTracker…
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September 23rd, 2006 at 12:58 pmMighty A, taking the advice of Coachjason, whom I respect, I decided to try to engage in an honest dialogue with you (as opposed to exchanging barbs as we’ve done in the past).
I suppose you are right that Bush engaged in some impressive diplomacy in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. (I note, too, that unlike Israel’s reaction after 2 of its soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah, the Bush administration took nearly 4 weeks after 9/11 to utilize diplomacy and put together a plan of attack before going into Afghanistan on 10/7/01 … rather remarkable restraint, when you think about it.) My concern, however, is that we cut deals with Pakistan only to have OBL end up in Pakistan and, for now anyway, beyond our reach.
I’m not sure what we could have done differently, but it seems less and less likely we’ll ever bring OBL to justice as the years pass. Meanwhile, there appears to be no shortage of jihadists in Pakistan and I have my doubts that Pervez’ll do much to root out the extremists.
September 23rd, 2006 at 2:26 pm