“Torture in Iraq may be worse now
By on Sep 22nd, 2006 at 11:30 am
“Torture in Iraq may be worse now
than it was under Saddam Hussein, with militias, terrorist groups and government forces disregarding rules on the humane treatment of prisoners, the U.N. anti-torture chief said Thursday.”
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That is okay. Bush likes torture. It is a policy goal of his.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:32 amHeh. We’re spreading democracy and freedom in the Mid East.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:34 amWe torture them, but how dare they torture back….thank bush gang.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:35 amWell, this post is a no brainer…Duh!……Blessings, we sure need them……Impeach for war crimes now……Peace, right after impeachment.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:41 amNice to know that things are going swimmingly.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:45 amWhat will they learn to do next – dope their baseball players?
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:56 amHeckuva job, Georgie.
But don’t worry; the decider has the torturer-ers and the suiciders in their last throes…
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:58 am1) I don’t think Bush “wants” torture.
I don’t think Bush “likes” to see people tortured. I think it saddens insider-conservatives that torture is happening in the middle east. I really do. But I think they believe it is necessary. I’d say that they believe that the mideast needs torture because they need to be afraid of something. Citizens of Iraq must get it into their heads that they should not align themselves with or sympathize with groups that are against American intentions in the middle east. The best, and most efficient way to do this is to terrorize their minds with thoughts that if they align themself with jihad groups, they will be caught and they will be tortured.
I think many conservatives see torture as an institution– an institution being an abstract pattern of thought that is inherited in or imposed on a society, and that idea is sopposed to help keep order. People in Iraq have to be afraid of torture right now because there is so much chaos. Torture has been used this way in the past to maintian loyalty and order in the interest of the royal families of the past— kings used to lavish the role and duties of the veiled torturers of their kingdoms and fear the day that they would be removed from society, because the primative minds of the common people would simply destroy themselves and each other if they didn’t fear being tortured. Civilization, as conservatives see it, would simply disintegrate.
It is entirely consistant with current conservative thought that torture would be used this way. Conservatives routinely say that we should cut all social services and let people starve if they don’t work, and they should not get health benefits if they don’t have an employer that values them enough to see them maintain their health. Since we have pain and suffering through starvation and poor health being used as a disincentive to being poor, it simply is not a far leap to say that these sick bastards would approve of torture as a disincentive to causing any sort of chaos in Iraq.
It is simply getting worse now because the conditions in Iraq is getting worse.
Any thoughts? Am I alone on this?
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:04 pmYou can’t have a big bowl of freedom without cracking a few bones.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:05 pmFrom the article:
Nowak added, “That means something, because the torture methods applied under Saddam Hussein were the worst you could imagine.”
Wha? How could that be???? After all, so many posters here at ThinkProgress keep telling us the the Iraqi people LOVED Saddam and that he really wasn’t that monstrous a dictator….
Do you mean to tell me that Saddam was actually a evil and murderous tyrant???? I’m shocked! SHOCKED!
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:07 pmExley: Saddam was actually a evil and murderous tyrant.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 pm“Freedom’s Untidy”
#10 And once again….”After all, so many posters here at ThinkProgress keep telling us the the Iraqi people LOVED Saddam and that he really wasn’t that monstrous a dictator” – holy strawman Batman!
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:11 pmActually George Bush does like torture. He tortured small animals as a child and tortured members of his fraternity as an adult. He was proud of his record of the most executions of any state in the country while governor of Texas and he tormented Carla Faye Tucker when she pleaded for her life. I’d say he “loves” to see people tortured. This is why he needs clarification of what torture is. To him torture has always meant fun.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:12 pmWho ever said Saddam was a nice guy? He did in fact keep a tight lid on all the crap your seeing played out now. Like one Iraqi citizen said recently: under Saddam, we had to worry about Saddam, now there are hundreds of Saddams.”
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:13 pmDo unto others as you would have done to you.
When Americans see our troops tortured the Bush way maybe someone will notice and step up to stop this Devil yes Bush is a Devil somethings known as Satan but in any word you used Bush is pure Evil. May God forgive us for letting our troops die because we didn’t have the guts to stop this mad man. Oh the Americans who are safe on American soil and who support Bush but would never join the military to serve this country I say K-ss M- A-s
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:14 pmAlso Exley, it really saddens me that all you got out of this is that Saddam tortured people. Did you intentionally ignore the part that we are apparently doing things worse than Saddam, which, as you pointed out, was “the worst you could imagine”?
I don’t know how you can sit here wagging your finger at a bunch of goofy people on a progressive blog instead of calling your representatives and demanding that we hold those that are perpetuating this torture to account. That, my friend, is what leaves me shocked. SHOCKED.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:14 pm#9 was sarcastic. Just to be clear.
Do you mean to tell me that Saddam was actually a evil and murderous tyrant???? I’m shocked! SHOCKED!
Comment by Exley
First I don’t know who here liked Saddam or even shook hands with him. And as for the situation being worse now in Iraq than it was under ASaddam how do you think the Iraqi people like there freedom given to them by bushie. Think they have a good feeling towards the US yet. Its hard for me to take that someone as horrible as Saddam is a lesser evil to the Iraqis that the President of the US. Sad.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:16 pmExley
Name one poster who keeps telling us the the Iraqi people LOVED Saddam and that he really wasn’t that monstrous a dictator.
You may like the taste of that Red Kool-Aid but that does not mean that you need to try to jamb it down our throats and try to get us to swallow it.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:17 pm#8 – I agree, Bush may not “want” torture but believes it to be necessary.
Which is all the more tragic because most intelligence officials believe that torture is actually counterproductive to getting good intelligence. See, people have a weird habit of saying ANYTHING to stop themselves from being tortured. Hence the false confession of that guy from Canada who was mistakenly identified as a potential Al Qaeda operative. He was imprisoned for over a year, kept in a cell the size of a COFFIN for most of that time, isolated from everything, not allowed to hear allegations against him, not allowed to call a lawyer, not allowed to call his family, and finally tortured until he confessed to crimes he did not commit. I dare say YOU would confess to just about anything if put under torture. The same thing happened countless times during the Spanish Inquisition.
Also unfortunately, the idea that we have to terrorize the Iraqi public in order to make them align with Americans is logical folly at its height! It will in fact make Iraqis hate us even more, and destroy what little moral high ground the U.S. has in this battle of ideas.
To say that we have to terrorize people to beat the terrorists is… well completely BASS-ACKWARDS.
Maybe Bush isn’t evil, maybe he’s just stupid. Or maybe a little bit of both. I can’t see how a follower of Jesus’s teachings (as Bush claims he is) could ever see this as an acceptable “tool” to use in fighting hate.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:20 pmNobody here has said anything like that and you know it. The only thing people have said regarding Saddam and the Iraqis is that some of the Iraqis want Saddam back BECAUSE HE RULED WITH AN IRON FIST. Some people want that. Take people like mighty aphrodite and roger_roger.
And after the stuff you said last night, I figured you were normal. But, no, you are just another troll. Jerk
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:21 pmExlax always makes these outrageous statements…not unlike George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rick Sanatarium, Tom DeLay, etc., etc.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:22 pm#16, Dave+M, A few points…
1) Let me just correct you on one thing you said…The article does NOT report that “we” (meaning the United States) are doing things worse than Saddam. The report was focused on Iraqi-on-Iraqi violence.
2) I was simply trying to re-state a point that has gotten lost in much of the debate over the Iraq War. I have noticed a tendency amony many posters here to downplay the horror that permeated Saddam’s rule over Iraq.
3) I am in fact greatly saddened and disappointed but what I see going on in Iraq today and I freely admit there may be no way to stop the Muslim-on-Muslim carnage going on in Iraq right now. It is a tragedy.
The United States and its Coalition partners, by deposing the monstrous Saddam Hussein, provided the Iraqi people with a golden opportunity to create a modern, tolerant democratic society. Tragically, it appears the Iraqis are squandering this opportunity. Rather than creating a decent, civilized society for themselves and their children, they appear to be indulging in ancient tribal and ethnic divisions. In the run up to liberation, many of my liberal or “progressive†friends argued that democracitizing Iraq was impossible because the Arab-Muslim world was incapable of forming such a society. I, on the other hand, believed that given the opportunity, the Iraqi people would embrace freedom and tolerance.
Perhaps I was wrong and my progressive friends correct. I am not yet sure. When I see the daily Iraqi-on-Iraqi, Muslim-on-Muslim carnage, I am pessimistic. When I see millions of Iraqis go to the polls to participate in the democratic process, I am hopeful.
But lately my pessimism outweighs my optimism.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:22 pmExley Please show us where TP has said the Iraqii people loved Sadaam? There have been discussion abotu wheether Iraq is better off under Sadaam or under Bush. But I can not recall where TP has claimed the Iraqii’s loved Sadaam. They may also have published statements from people in Iraq, on the ground, who preferred the stability and peace of the Sadaam days to the chaos and war of Bush.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:23 pmExley, sorry to see your world crumbling apart with facts.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:23 pm#17, 18, Dlet, PLC…I didn’t say ALL posters here have expressed that opinion and I didn’t mean to so imply. I know that is not the case. But undeniably, some have. And when I read that, it saddens me. One can have their opinion and argue about whether the invasion of Iraq was the correct thing to do or not. But people should not twist history in order to make their points.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:26 pmExley, who said Saddam was a nice guy? Oh right, Ronald Reagan and Donald Rumsfeld did! Even when liberals like Amnesty International were begging them to drop support.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:27 pm#17
That would be Donald Rumsfeld – you know, our secretary of defense?
I think if you truly look at what the Iraqis have been through since the U.S. invasion and put yourself in their shoes, it is not difficult to think that they might hate the U.S. occupation as much or more than they hated the rule of Saddam.
Also lets get the record straight – we all agree Saddam was bad. Mkay? That doesn’t mean the U.S. gets off the hook for the situation we created – which was PREDICTED by many people and consequently ignored by the stubborn Bush administration. EVERY prediction they’ve made about Iraq and the war on terrorism has proven false. And now the Iraqis are not only being tortured and killed in massive numbers every day, they have an unstable government with little food or water, electricity, etc. On top of that, we’ve CREATED a new hotbed for terrorists. Iraq has become a magnet for people in the Middle East who hate America. It was not the central front on terrorism until we invaded! Not to mention that the whole debacle has made the U.S. less safe, inflamed anti-U.S. sentiment and given Al Qaeda the biggest recruiting tool in their history.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:28 pm#20, SpudgeBoy, Nothing I wrote here today contradicts anything we discussed last night. See also posting #22.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:29 pm#25,
But people should not twist history in order to make their points.
Comment by Exley
I readthis over and over and over again. Looked at who wrote it. read it over and over and over again. Looked at who wrote it again. Read it over and over again. I am seriously in shock and awe. I may have to leave for the day. I can’t think straight.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:32 pm#25 Either name some names or admit you haven’t seen anyone say Saddam was a nice guy here.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 pmName one. Show one post where one of us or TP says that the Iraqis “LOVED” Saddam.
Put up or shut up.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:37 pmDude, last night your meds must have been working. You said that we need to stop the BS and work together as a country. Then you come in this morning, before your meds kick in and say that ’so many of us think the Iraqis LOVED Saddam’
That is complete and utter BS and you know it. You just felt like being a jerk this morning and losing whtever normality you had last night.
Be a man and admit you were wrong.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:39 pm#30, 31
Now, now, you two!…Don’t play “dumb.” You know as well as I do that it has been said and who has said it. I can understand that it may embarass you that some of your fellow TP posters have expressed such a vile thought, but don’t pretend it hasn’t been said.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:40 pm#25 OK Exley, let’s go from “so many posters” to just one. Name the heartless bastard so we can pummel him with cyber abuse…or perhaps your strawman just dried up and blew away….
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:41 pm#29, Dlet…“I may have to leave for the day”.
Awww, don’t go. You’d be missed. You always make such fascinating points….They’re usually wrong, but they’re fascinating nonetheless.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:43 pm#34, What’s the point? I could name them (One in particular comes to mind immediately), but then they will just deny it and so it will go on and on….The fact is I have succeeded in my mission…I have finally gotten a number of posters here on ThinkProgress to acknowledge FINALLY that Saddam Hussein was indeed a monstrous, murderousn dictator.
You, Kermit, Mark, Dave, dlet, PLC are now on the record as agreeing with me that Saddam Hussein was a cruel and vicious tryrant…And that is a big step. And something of a victory for me and all of those who supported liberation.
In short: Mission accomplished.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:50 pmExley–
TP has a search feature. Use it and show one — JUST ONE — person who posted what you claim has been posted.
Or, you could just be a real man and admit you pulled something out of your ass.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:50 pmhttp://www.theherald.co.uk/news/70610.html
From Geneva? Never been to Iraq?
In Geneva, Mr Nowak, who has not personally visited Iraq…
Let’s hear from someone who has suffered under Saddam and is grateful for his country to be liberated, Dr. Barham Salim.
http://www.brookings.edu/comm/events/20060913iraq.htm
“I want to, ladies and gentlemen, lay out for you today our strategy of a country in transition, for a country that is at the crossroads of the Middle East, a country that is every day, regrettably, in the cross hairs of terrorism. It is a strategy of two compacts, a national compact and an international one, a strategy motivated by profound realism, not by defeatism. It is a strategy with a sense of urgency but with a refusal to give in to panic. It is a strategy without any regret for the just and moral act that was the liberation of Iraq from the racist and genocidal tyranny of Saddam Hussein, a strategy tempered by the difficult experience of recent years. Above all, it is an Iraqi strategy that is being implemented with broad international support and goes beyond the Coalition of countries that have supported our liberation.â€
“Quibble the rationale for our liberation as much as some people may, nobody who has seen the mass graves, and as we discover more of them almost every month, nobody who has met the victims, nobody who knows of our decades of suffering can look the Iraqis in the eye and tell us that we would have been better off with Saddam Hussein still in power.â€
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:53 pm#32, Spudge, My comments from last night still stand. But please, don’t pretend that there aren’t posters and other “progressives” who haven’t claimed that the Iraqi people were not happy to be liberated from Saddam.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:54 pmOnce again, Exley stirs you into a frenzy so as to divert and mislead. Here’s the reality that is being glossed over.
The United States of America has murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, lied and deceived its citizenry about the “justification” for this heinous and ongoing event, and has achieved through either gross incompetence or demonic aspiration an environment that is numerous levels of magnitude worse than anything that the previous “evil” dictator achieved.
Let me summarize that for you:
- The United States of America has become a murderous regime on a scale that places it on par with some of the worst regimes/governments in world history.
- The United States of America has employed a failed foreign policy and is too stupid and arrogant to fix itself.
- The United States of America has become the most vile country on the planet in regard to humanitarian issues.
- The citizenry of the United States are complicit in all of these crimes.
All of these are facts. All are irrefutable. So, the next time you pledge allegiance to that piece of cloth that has red and white stripes and white stars on a blue background, realize that you have failed your predecessors in maintaining the honor that the flag used to represent and are now, instead, pledging your allegiance to murder, torture, and vile exploitation. And, you pledge to continue to perform such heinous activities on WOMEN, CHILDREN, and MEN.
Burn the flag, hell no. I say destroy the damned thing.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 pmExley, can’t you just read the posts and not comment? You add nothing to the dialogue. You are either a child or an adult who is so brainwashed that critical thinking has completely shut down. Your comments are silly.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:01 pm#37 Unholy Moses, It does not appear that the “search” function enables one to search postings…Just the articles that begin the threads.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:01 pmDr. Barham Salim continuuuuuuuuuues…
“Iraq, as many of you know, is a fundamentally diverse country, and we need to find a balance that protects that diversity and encourages a voluntary, democratic, federal national unity. It is a diversity that those responsible for the violence, hate and reject. Our enemies are not freedom fighters, ladies and gentlemen. They are fascists. I do not use that word lightly because I refuse to trivialize or deny the crimes that scarred the 20th Century. We are under assault from Ba’athists, and nobody familiar with the theory and practice of Ba’athism can claim that it is not a fascist, racist ideology. The Ba’athists and some of their allies advocate a supremacist ideology similar to the chauvinism of the apartheid regime in South Africa. Like racists elsewhere, they yearn for the restoration of the status quo ante in which they were dominant.
“By killing Zarqawi, I believe we have wounded Al-Qaeda in Iraq, but we have not eliminated it. The alliance between the Ba’athists and the jihadists which sustains Al-Qaeda in Iraq is not new, contrary to what you may have been told. I know this at first hand. Some of my friends were murdered by the jihadists, by Al-Qaeda-affiliated operatives who had been sheltered and assisted by Saddam’s regime. The UN Resolution 687 of 1991 demanded Saddam not only to verifiably disarm, which he did not, but also his regime was supposed to stop supporting international terrorism and to renounce all acts and methods and practices of terrorism.
“This Ba’athist-jihadist terrorist axis rejects the notion of a balanced process because it wants supremacy and theocracy.”
Ba’athist and jihadist were torturing under Saddam and they still doing it today, Mr Nowak in Geneva.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:02 pmExley
Come on, name one. Oh, that’s right, you can’t because nobody has. You made it up. Frankly if you are going to lie, make sure the people you are lying to, aren’t the people you are lying about.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:04 pmSaddam was a monster, but he was human. Our President, however, is on a different level altogether. This man, who calls himself a “born-again Christian” is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He speaks of bringing peace and justice, but everything he does results in death, suffering, injustice and despair. He breaks both man’s and God’s laws because he believes he’s the Law unto himself. His words mean NOTHING….his actions reveal EVERYTHING about what and who he truly is.
Mark my words. The “compromises” he’s won from Congress for use against terrorist suspects: legalizing torture, locking the judiciary out of any type of oversight/review, allowing any detainee to be kept locked up FOR LIFE if HE wants them to be….WILL be used against American citizens when HE chooses to do so. And there will be nothing that anyone can or will do to stop him. What outside country or coalition of nations will come to OUR rescue? What groups, either inside or outside our country are strong enough to rescue us? The fact that the U.N. can’t/won’t intervene in Dafur without the permission of Sudan should give you your answer….and Sudan is not a superpower with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons on the planet.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:04 pm#39, Exley – that’s a triple negative…read it closely… maybe you are too busy putting your burning pants out to check your posts closely…
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:05 pmOoooohhh, Exley has us all on record. I bet he wore a CIA baseball cap when he wrote that. What an ignamaroon.
Psst. Exley I have you on record that you say the stupidest things.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:06 pmAdd “Bruce” and “Republicans are the fear and smear party” to the list of people who I have gotten to admit FINALLY that Saddam Hussein was a murderous and evil tyrant. Thank you, boys.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:09 pm#47, Dlet,
Why so hostile? I am congratulating you on finally acknowledging that Saddam Hussein was a uniquely evil and murderous dictator. I am proud of you! Well done.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:12 pmExley–
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:12 pmJust admit you lied and move on.
Fa Kin Su Pa ,
fascinating and illuminating posts. Thank you.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:13 pmGeorge Bush the “torture president”. What a legacy?
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:16 pm#50, Unholy Moses,
Heh! Not only did I tell the truth, but I also rather successfully maneuvered several posters here, including you, into agreeing with me and acknowledging that Saddam was a murderous, evil tryrant. Not a bad job on my part, if I do say so myself…
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:17 pm#49
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:18 pmI wasn’t being hostile. Ignamaroon is actually a compliment in Swahili. You should put it on your business cards. I am sure everyone will be impressed.
Exley has succeeded in creating a huge thread regarding his strawman argument. That’s what he/she has succeeded in doing. That’s the only thing. It’s a damn shame how the trolls get us all on side tangents like this. But it’s so hard to NOT argue when you are slandered, so I understand where everybody is coming from in arguing with him/her. If only conservatives could actually argue the merits of the issue instead of resorting to slander and defamation. It’s a damn shame — DAMN shame — that slander, no matter how unfounded, always taints the image of a candidate in this country too. And it appears the next generation is learning well from their leaders… Lying will get you all the way to the white house.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:30 pmExley,
Actually, your president bush has murdered far more Iraqis than saddam ever did. And, the US has tortured more people. And the US occupation has ruined the country completely.
No one here but yourself has ever praised saddam hussein. And you worship his successor in heinous attrocities, your president bush.
Look in the mirror so you can see the abomination that you are. You are the only one who falls for your deceptions. So you are not just a liar, but you are a fool. Good luck to you on that.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:33 pmSaddam was a bad man, he tortured people and we supported him. Now he is gone, we bombed the hell out of the country, again. it took the Iraqi people under Saddam one year to rebuild the country. It has taken us five years to ramp the killing up to respectable numbers, and still the country is a total mess. But hey American contractors are raking in big profits-invest, invest all ye war profiteers!
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:37 pmUnder Saddam the people had electricty, water. garbage removal and occasional torture. Under US rule they have bombings, killing and torture, but no electricty. Of course they want us to leave things were better with Saddam in power.
but I also rather successfully maneuvered several posters here, including you, into agreeing with me and acknowledging that Saddam was a murderous, evil tryrant.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:38 pmComment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 1:17 pm
Exley….sorry to burst your bubble, but you cannot “succesfully maneuver” when one is already in agreement.
You’re purposely avoiding the question. Name one poster who “liked Sadaam”. It’s that simple. NAME ONE POSTER! Your strawmen arguments of “they will deny” or “I can name one but won’t” are childish and silly
And by the by, you can add me to your list of agreement that Sadaam was a murderous and evil tyrant (to which he was….never EVER been denied)
Oh yes, and Exley, beings that you are on such a “crusade” to get the world to acknowledge that saddam was such a murderous and evil tyrant (which is the equivalent to a crusade to get everyone to acknowledge that the sky is blue), are you also going to call out those that supported saddam? It would be blatantly hypocritical to not do so.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:39 pmExley
I have never once said Saddam was anything else. Of course, the truth was never your thing was it? Liar.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:44 pmWhy aren’t Democrats hammering home the point that…
Saddam Hussein’s mass graves, rape and torture rooms…
…are NOW George W. Bush’s?…
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:46 pmI am congratulating you on finally acknowledging that Saddam Hussein was a uniquely evil and murderous dictator. I am proud of you! Well done.
Comment by Exley
Uniquely evil? How so? What makes his “evil” unique?
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:48 pm#56, Stating the Obvious…You never DID get that drink PLC told you to get did you?
Then again, maybe you did. Because your assertions are downright silly, like those cited by a drunken man. Here you go, junior:
In a column written June 28, I asserted that more Iraqis (civilians) had now been killed in this war than had been killed by Saddam Hussein over his 24-year rule. WRONG. Really, really wrong.
The only problem is figuring out by how large a factor I was wrong. I had been keeping an eye on civilian deaths in Iraq for a couple of months, waiting for the most conservative estimates to creep over 20,000, which I had fixed in my mind as the number of Iraqi civilians Saddam had killed.
There have been estimates as high as 1 million civilians killed by Saddam, though most agree on the 300,000 to 400,000 range, making my comparison to 20,000 civilian dead in this war pathetically wrong.
Molly Ivins
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:51 pmJuly 2005
#61 – hey – what happened to this statement of purpose?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1224116,00.html
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:52 pm#60 And Bruce I never said that you did say anything else…I never mentioned your name in posting # 10.
Don’t take it so personally, skippy!
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:52 pmDRxJ…I never said there was anyone here who “liked” Saddam. I did correctly point out that some TP posters have said in the past that the Iraqi people supported Saddam as their leader.
And I did provide one such posting. Again, go to March 29, 2006. Thank you.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:55 pmIn short: Mission accomplished.
Comment by Exley —
Funniest bit of unintended humor I’ve read in a long time.
You should do inprov.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:57 pm#67, Barfly,
It was not unintended. I knew that would rile people!
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:59 pmI did correctly point out that some TP posters have said in the past that the Iraqi people supported Saddam as their leader.
Comment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 1:55 pm
Which has absolutely nothing to do with this:
…I have finally gotten a number of posters here on ThinkProgress to acknowledge FINALLY that Saddam Hussein was indeed a monstrous, murderous dictator
Comment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 12:50 pm
To which he avoids the original question:
Exley
Name one poster who keeps telling us the the Iraqi people LOVED Saddam and that he really wasn’t that monstrous a dictator.
Exley, please quit side stepping the issue. Which poster stated that Saddam was not a murderous dictator?
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:04 pmExley, two lies now….
And now:
You can’t keep your story straight can you…
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:06 pmI find it quite interesting that I have TWICE posted a copy of a comment by a poster from March 29, 2006 indicating the poster believed the Iraqis supported Saddam and TWICE it has appeared only briefly before being taken down….Interesting.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:09 pmActually, Terry, I have proved my point…And I thank you for finally acknowledging that Saddam was a murderous, brutal dictator hated by th evast majority of the Iraqi people.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:12 pmIt was not unintended. I knew that would rile people!
Comment by Exley
So you meant what “mission accomplished” actually signified? That’s what I was laughing about. It meant that you thought you had just accomplished a self-proclaimed and defined “mission,” like George – and all that was left was a few messy, minor details to mop up! Good imitation of George Bush cluelessness; you’ve got it down pat!
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:13 pmI said it before and I’ll say it again. DisExleyia a malfunction of the eyes and brain that render the reader of propaganda and lies to see fact and truth should be eradicated in our time. Please give generously.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:15 pmIf my four-year-old son had said the same stuff Exley has said on this thread, I would have sent him to his room somewhere around post #53 – denial in the face of overwhelming evidence.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:17 pmI find it quite interesting that I have TWICE posted a copy of a comment by a poster from March 29, 2006 indicating the poster believed the Iraqis supported Saddam and TWICE it has appeared only briefly before being taken down….Interesting.
Comment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 2:09 pm
…and there you have it, the ultimate strawman! The constantly disappearing burden of proof! TAH DAH!
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:20 pm#76 Terry,
Heh! And what “overwhelming evidence” has you presentd, Turtle???? Oh, that’s right! Nothing….Meanwhile, I answered the challenge and provided this posting from March 29, 2006:
“If the Iraqi people hate Saddam so much, then why would they give a crap if he says ‘kill the Americans’? “
If? IF????
Sorry, Terry. You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:21 pmThree lies now, Exley. I think I am going to have to ban you from using the computer for the rest of the weekend, while you reflect on the lies you have told today. And don’t worry about your Mar 29 post – I saw it and copied it for folks to see that you were lying about the context of what Spudge said.
Sorry, but I have done no such thing in this thread. That was lie #3
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:21 pm#78 I’d love to stay in your delusional universe and watch you twist in the breeze, but you are no longer entertaining with your dishonesty.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:28 pmExley, (doing his Tailgunner Joe imitation): “These papers I hold contain the names of posters who’ve claimed “the Iraqis supported Saddam” – deny if you, will but the proof is right here!
Produce, or STFU
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:29 pm#80, Terry the Turtle wrote:
Sorry, but I have done no such thing
Sooooooooo, now you are saying you DON’T agree that Saddam was a murderous, brutal dictator hated by the vast majority of the Iraqi people?????
Okay…Well, you are sort of all over the map here, Triple T…
So, do you agree or don’t you?
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:30 pmNot playing dumb. The fact that you won’t prove your points makes you less than a man in my book.
Show some proof or admit you lied.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:31 pm#80, T-Cubed…Don’t run away from the discussion….Just because I proved me point doesn’t mean you should scurry away.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:36 pmExley,
Because you say it or quote a sound-bite from an article, does not make it so. In regard to the figures of Iraqi civilian deaths, the facts are that the toll rung up by the wondrous USofA exceeds, by about 2 fold, what saddam did. Would you like to see the actual data? Or does that scare you?
Is the USofA better or worse than saddam? That will be a debate for historians. What should rock you to your core is the fact that there is even a debate! And, it is a legitimate debate. Think about it.
Oh, and why did you avoid my question? You assert with vigor that saddam was a horrible dictator and, contrary to your attempts to create a straw man, no one here feels otherwise. So, with that established, then what is to be said of those that supported saddam?
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:38 pmBoys and girls, I suggest you check out postings 62 and 86.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:40 pmCome on, get with it.
Go to Google or use your Google toolbar and type in the following:
“site: thinkprogress.org Saddam loved”
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:41 pmGeorge: We are here to free you from a Brutal dictator, unfortunately we are gonna have to tortue you before you are free form brutality.
This is going to hurt you more than it does me”
Goat farmer: I thought Democracy was Freedom Equality and Brotherhood, you know a secular-progressive Democracy?
George; Yes thats what me and BORe tell all the Shee er all of the People. But really we hate Secular peaceful society.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:47 pm#86 Thanks, Spudge.
But first, please explain what you meant by your March 29, 2006 posting #1 at the thread titled “Blame Saddam.”
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:49 pmThe post says nothing about the Iraqis LOVING Saddam. You are trying to twist what I said. Everybody can see that, liar.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:51 pmI am congratulating you on finally acknowledging that Saddam Hussein was a uniquely evil and murderous dictator. I am proud of you! Well done.
Comment by Exley
What do you care how many people Saddam killed Exley?
It’s quite apparent that the GOPigs want to kill more innocent people for an insane Holy War. Which is it Exley, do you guys want to free the Iraqis or kill them?
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:53 pmBoys and girls, I suggest you check out postings 62 and 86.
Comment by Exley —
Post 62: Uniquely evil? How so? What makes his “evil†unique?
Comment by barfly
“If the Iraqi people hate Saddam so much, then why would they give a crap if he says ‘kill the Americans’? “Spudgeboy
And THAT qualifies as pro-Saddam statements? Questions?
If? IF????
Sorry, Terry. You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
Comment by Exley
Your attmpts at smear are laughably weak; come back when you can actually offer proof – not questions!
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:57 pm#92,
Sorry, Spudge. You seem like a decent fellow, but your March 29, 2006 post clearly states your doubts that the Iraqi people hated Saddam.
Maybe you said it in the heat of the moment or didn’t think it through. But you said. It is there. Hence, I have fulfilled the request of those here who said they wanted to see one such post.
No need for you to apologize, Spudge. I will assume you did not remember writing what you did.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:58 pmExley was happy yesterday that the ‘good will’ in Iraq was destroyed, today Exley is happy that Saddam killed many people, and he is also happy that many more have died since then, be they innocent women or children. Exley is also happy that Bush will kill tens of thousands MORE than Saddam.
Remove the country of origin Exley and you will see that You, Saddam, Bush, Stalin and Hitler all have something in common. Sociopaths.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:01 pmAnd my suggestion about your doing improv was perhaps a bit hasty, Exley; although you would do famously on the inbred redneck comedy tour.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:02 pmHey Exley Explosively UNIQUE wizbang blog is looking for lame bloggers.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:05 pmHence, I have fulfilled the request of those here who said they wanted to see one such post.
Comment by Exley —
No, you haven’t (see above).
Example question: Exley, do you have intercourse with animals?
In Exleyworld, did I just accuse you of raping a chicken?
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:12 pm2006 post clearly states your doubts that the Iraqi people hated Saddam. Exley
No, it doesn’t. Now you’re flailing.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:14 pm99, 100….You are reeeeallyyyy stretching things now, Barfly….Heh! Just admit, I proved my point…I was correct…again!
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:17 pmAnd how was Saddam “uniquely evil?” Your assertion is just . . . like something from an old saturday afternoon movie matinee: “He was uniquely evil –”
Was he more evil than Pol Pot?
Hitler?
Stalin?
It’s just pathetic that you would even type that.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:20 pmSorry, Spudge. You seem like a decent fellow, but your March 29, 2006 post clearly states your doubts that the Iraqi people hated Saddam.
~~~~~~~~~~~
To say that the Iraqi people Hated Saddam can never be a correct statement because there are still those Iraqis that do support Saddam. Ergo your ‘point’, no matter how far you have removed it from the context, is moot.
It’s like me saying Americans think Bush is incompetent.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:21 pmI proved my point…I was correct…again!
Comment by Exley —
See above. That you think you proved your point is saddest of all . . .
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:23 pmExley = Moot
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:24 pm#84 Stating the Obvious,
1) “Would you like to see the actual data?”
Sure, send it on over, big guy! I am sure it will be … interesting.
2) “what is to be said of those that supported saddam?”
Hey, no one has been harder on the Russians, Germans, French and Arab supporters of Saddam than me….
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:25 pmThe military let loose documents that showed the sick pervert rumsfeld not only tailoring torture for individual prisoners but showing up at Gitmo to personally torture – the bush regime are nazis – look up bush and Brownsville. the only person bush pardoned as tex gov was a child torturer serial killer who murdered and tortured 200 children. Why would this be the only person that bush pardoned from death row?
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:26 pmFebruary 8, 2006- House Panel Refuses to Investigate Torture Outsourcing
WASHINGTON, D.C.- Today the House of Representatives International Relations Committee voted (24-Y,16-N) to reject a Resolution of Inquiry introduced by Representative Edward J. Markey (D-MA) which demanded information from the Department of Defense, the State Department, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, and the White House on the people who have been subjected to “extraordinary rendition†the
U.S. to countries where they may face torture or other forms of cruel or degrading treatment or punishment.
More…
January 24, 2006- Council of Europe Investigator Finds Evidence of U.S. Torture Outsourcing Ring
January 12, 2006- What’s Worse Than U.S. Kidnapping of Foreign Citizens? Kidnapping the WRONG Foreign Citizens
January 5, 2006- Above the Law: President Exempts Himself from Torture Ban
December 15, 2005- Administration Flip-Flops on Torture Supports Torture Ban…Maybe
http://markey.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=532&Itemid=137
April 27, 2006- Rules Committee Gives “Thumbs Up” To Torture
WASHINGTON, DC- Representative Edward J. Markey (D-MA), a senior Democrat on the House Committee on Homeland Security, today expressed disappointment with the decision by the House Republicans to prevent a vote on his amendment to ban funding in the Intelligence Authorization Act for the extraordinary rendition program that facilitates the outsourcing of torture to foreign countries. This decision comes on the same day that the
European Parliament investigators announced that they have evidence that the C.I.A. rendition program had flown more than 1,000 flights through European airspace since 2001.
Markey’s amendment would have generally restricted the use of diplomatic assurances – simply taking the word of foreign governments that no torture will take place, regardless of the country’s track record on this issue – as the basis for renditions of persons to countries that are known to use torture…
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:29 pmExley, do you have intercourse with animals?
In Exleyworld, did I just accuse you of raping a chicken?
In Exley World you not only raped it, you kidnapped and tortured it then sold the chicks into a chicken sex camp located in Iraq where Osama supports secular-progressives from his Bat cave.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:30 pm#99 Saddam was indeed a uniquely evil dictator during his reign…Why you are bringing up other monstrous dictators who were in power years and decades earlier is quite puzzling.
I would refer you to the writings of New York Times reporter John Burns. I am sure a Google or Lexis/Nexis search will be helpful. Burns wrote before Iraq was liberated that while there were many unsavory and brutal regimes in the world at the time, Saddam’s Iraq was uniquely nightmarish and horrific.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:31 pmHey, no one has been harder on the Russians, Germans, French and Arab supporters of Saddam than me….
Comment by Exley
coo coo for coo coo puffs
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:36 pm#99 Saddam was indeed a uniquely evil dictator during his reign…Why you are bringing up other monstrous dictators who were in power years and decades earlier is quite puzzling. -Exley
Hey, no one has been harder on the Russians, Germans, French and Arab supporters of Saddam than me…. -Exley
your a puzzle to yourself Exley
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:39 pmhttp://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=7282-
How Bush Rules: Torture and The Quest For Unfettered Power
“We do not torture,†President Bush has said time and again. But Bush has approved techniques that are defined as torture under the Geneva Conventions. In fact, he abrogated U.S. compliance with Article 3 of the Conventions that specifically prohibits torture. Indeed, his then White House counsel and now attorney general Alberto Gonzales contemptuously referred to the Conventions as “quaint.â€
In the infamous memo of August 1, 2002 written by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, the so-called “Bybee memo,†after Jay Bybee, its director and since appointed by Bush to a federal judgeship, the Conventions were shoved aside and the definition revised. Rather than the Conventions stipulations against “cruel, inhumane and degrading†treatment of prisoners and “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment,†the administration adopted new tandards: “Physical pain amounting to torture must be equivalent to intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.†The Bush administration’s new torture policy prompted the export of torture technique from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib.
Bush’s torture policy is a centerpiece of his effort to concentrate unfettered power in the executive, an overarching change justified by an executive order declaring that in his role as
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:42 pmcommander-in-chief in wartime he can make and enforce laws at will. In my new book, “How Bush Rules: Chronicles of a Radical Regime,†I present and analyze the history of Bush’s radical attempt to impose an imperial presidency.
#106, 108 Dick…
Chickens….cuckoos….You got a thing for birds, dude????
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:42 pmSo let’s review: Exley made up an assertion, and has been unable to substantially back up his claim. He has lied about other posters’ comments, and when called on it, would not attempt to refute their accusations, but instead posted irrelevancies, and them took an imaginary victory lap.
Just admit, I proved my point…I was correct…again! Exley
Saddam was indeed a uniquely evil dictator during his reign…
Still haven’t proved “unique,” even after being given examples of others far worse – your argumentation is almost childlike . . .
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:46 pmThat you won’t intellectually engage is most telling. Keep spouting irrelevancies, it’s good lunchtime viewing – better than the funny papers.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:48 pmWow …
Instead of discussing how torture in Iraq hasn’t changed much since the invasion (other than who is doing the torturing), we’re now discussing exley and not the bigger issue: torture, morality, and where we should stand on the issue as a country.
And I had a part in helping it get that way.
I sincerely apologize.
You know, in the future, when someone makes baseless, asinine claims, how about we all agree not to dignify them with a response?
I promise — right here and right now — to take that stand.
Now, if the person really does want to discuss the issue, fine. But otherwise, no.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:48 pm#112, 113,
Actually, Barfly,
1) I got numerous posters here to acknowledge that Saddam was indeed a monstrous, murderous dictator — A fact that is all too often left out of discussions about Iraq here at ThinkProgress,
2) When asked to produce a posting that supported my statement, I did so.
And the only response you could come up was some bizarre, convoluted posting about chickens and barnyard animals….
I feel bad for ya, junior. Go hit the bar and grab yourself a drink. You’ll feel better!
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:54 pmExley,
Gee, so saddam was horrible and his supporters are equally horrible. So, have you called Donald Rumsfeld, Ronald Reagan, Dick Cheney, and George I to the mat on this? Or their supporters?
A coward and a farce is all that you are Ms. Exley. Goodbye and may Allah have mercy upon your soul.
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:55 pm#119, Stating the Obvious,
Where’s all that data you promised that would show that the United States has killed twice as many Iraqi civilians as Saddam did? Looking forward to reading it….I’ll wait….
September 22nd, 2006 at 3:58 pmStill no reason why Saddam was “unique” among dictators. Big Surprise.
Go hit the bar and grab yourself a drink. You’ll feel better!
Comment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
Perhaps it will make your reasoning clearer – thanks for the advice!
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:06 pmYou guys that carp about off-thread rambles, just think of me as troll-paper.
As long as Exley is engaged here, he isn’t squatting and trotting on the other threads, so in that regard, I’m doin’ ya’all a favor.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:09 pmYes the torture is worse than when Saddam was in power, because Bush is sadistic and wants Iraqi males sexually abused! Bush himself must have been sexually assaulted as a child, so he wants revenge?!
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:13 pmBritain Issues File on Iraq’s ‘Unique Horror’
By WARREN HOGE (NYT); Foreign Desk
Late Edition – Final, Section A, Page 18, Column 1, 847 words
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT – Britain releases dossier of evidence arguing that systematic rape, torture, gassing, public beheadings and mass executions of Iraqis by Saddam Hussein are deliberate policy of his ‘regime of unique horror’; Foreign Sec Jack Straw asserts that document, which government says is based on intelligence material, first-hand accounts and reports by nongovernmental organizations, sets out powerful human rights case in addition to international security argument for disarming Hussein of antiwar protesters in central London
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:15 pmWe all agree on that you moron. Stop bringing it up. You didn’t change anybodys mind on that today. We already kno Saddam is a monterous ass.
No, you tried to spin something I said and took it out of context. A$$hole.
Don’t ever make anymore posts liek the one you did last night. You are nothing but a right wing whore, so don’t try and pretend you aren’t anymore.
I stuck up for your dumb a$$ last night. I will never make that mistake again. Chicken sh!t zombie. Too much of a pu$$y to admit you are wrong. Good Christian upbringing I take it?
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:19 pmFall of an idol draws curtain on a nightmare
By John Burns in Baghdad
December 16, 2003
As Iraqis struggled to grasp the impact of Saddam Hussein’s humiliating capture in a darkened hole near Tikrit, it was the television images of the fallen idol that kept replaying in their minds, just like the images played on their television screens.
The video film taken by his US captors showed a dishevelled old man, more like a hapless, disoriented vagrant than the tyrant whose quarter of a century in power bludgeoned a population of 25 million into cringing submission.
A mythic strongman, so feared that his name set people trembling until only a few months ago, was suddenly reduced to pitiable, mumbling impotence.
On the streets of Baghdad, and elsewhere across Iraq, people who danced out of their homes with paper US flags and raised their rifles for staccato bursts into the clear winter air paused to tell each other again and again what they had seen. They acted as if ceaseless repetition would make real what many called a dream, checking that others, too, had experienced what they had seen.
The New York Times, Reuters
This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/15/1071336894551.html
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:19 pmI find it interesting that TP is censoring my posts, but leave Exley’s crap in post 10 up there for everybody to see.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:21 pmBarfly….Enjoy:
“Many of us had worked on and off long years in Iraq, and had come to understand what made Iraq different from almost every other country we had ever been to. I personally have lived and worked in many of the world’s nastiest places over the last 30 years.
And Iraq was clearly the nastiest of them, saving only North Korea about which I know a great deal less, because visas for North Korea are a great deal harder to get.
Iraq was the most complete terrorist state. It was a frightening and pathetic thing to see how a nation of 25 million people had been reduced to a state of abject fear. And we knew that there’s only one way to produce this kind of fear, and that is by killing, by large scale killing.
Now we know with the war over that what human rights reports had been telling us for years was probably an underestimate. We know that he killed hundred of thousands of his own people.”
John Burns
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:30 pmNew York Times
http://www.cbc.ca/deadlineiraq/burns.pdf#search=%22John%20Burns%20Iraq%20different%20fear%22
September 22, 2006 by the Guardian / UK –
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:31 pmAccording to the UN, which releases the figures every two months, violent civilian deaths in July reached an unprecedented high of 3,590 people, an average of more than 100 a day. The August toll was 3,009 people, the report said. In the previous period the UN had reported just under 6,000 deaths – 5,106 from Baghdad alone.
Ultimately the US is responsible for every one of these deaths. If we were not occupying the country…
#125 Spudge, I must admit that when I did go searching for some of the past postings I have seen indicating that the Iraqi people supported Saddam and were happy living under his regime, I was surprised and disappointed that your name and posting was the first one I came across.
Now, as I said earlier, after our discussion last evening I am sure you didn’t mean it when you implied that the Iraqi did not hate Saddam. Given your clarifying statements made today, it was clearly an implication you did not mean to make.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:35 pmNewsflash – IRAQ
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:37 pm“Bodies found at the Medico-legal Institute often bear signs of severe torture, including acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances, missing skin, broken bones (back, hands and legs), missing eyes, missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails.”
At least Saddams not doin it.
#128, IHB
As I said earlier, it is deeply distressing to see the Iraqi-on-Iraqi carnage that is going on now. It is a tragedy.
The United States and its Coalition partners, by deposing the monstrous Saddam Hussein, provided the Iraqi people with a golden opportunity to create a modern, tolerant democratic society. Tragically, it appears the Iraqis are squandering this opportunity. Rather than creating a decent, civilized society for themselves and their children, they appear to be indulging in ancient religious, tribal and ethnic divisions. In the run up to liberation, many of my liberal or “progressive†friends argued that democracitizing Iraq was impossible because the Arab-Muslim world was incapable of forming such a society. I, on the other hand, believed that given the opportunity, the Iraqi people would embrace freedom and tolerance.
Perhaps I was wrong and my progressive friends correct. I am not yet sure. When I see the daily Iraqi-on-Iraqi, Muslim-on-Muslim carnage, I am pessimistic. When I see millions of Iraqis go to the polls to participate in the democratic process, I am hopeful.
But lately my pessimism outweighs my optimism.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:48 pmYou cannot deliver democracy with laser guided missiles.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:51 pmKilling for democracy is like f*cking for virginity.
What the hell is wrong with you people? You let Exley completely hijack this thread. If Progesssives don’t have enough common sense to recognize those who bait and distract us, do you truly believe we have any chance to win this? Stop fighting the little battles and concentrate on winning the war! Exley, and those like him, are a “tree.” We need to perceive the forest. Before it’s completely too late…and we are damn close to that point! WAKE THE F*** UP!!!
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:08 pm#131, Wakeup!
‘Exley, and those like him, are a “tree.‒
But remember:
I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the earth’s sweet flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in Summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:13 pmBut only God can make a tree.
Exley has been shot down so many times on this same rant of his, that it is hardly worth it to waste one’s typing skills on a reply.
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:32 pmThat said
Sadaam may be an evil bastard, but we support lots of those assholes all over the planet (look just south of Russia).
At least he terrified his subjects into submission, something we can’t and won’t do because of our culture.
Just goes to show, we don’t understand shit about shiite and sunni issues, nor much about how tribal cultures live and work.
Let’s impose mah-jongg as the national pastime of Iraq.
That makes about as much sense as imposing democracy as a way of governance.
#133
RUCerious, are you serious???? It is pretty clear that I prove my point today…I mean, look at you. Even you are now acknowledging that Saddam was a murderous and evil dictator. That’s progress….I must say I have done a pretty good job here today…
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:44 pmDISPLAYING ABSTRACT – Britain releases dossier of evidence arguing that systematic rape, torture, gassing, public beheadings and mass executions of Iraqis by Saddam Hussein are deliberate policy of his ‘regime of unique horror’
I’m back from the bar, Exley.
Didn’t Hitler gas people?
Didn’t the nazis torture people systematically?
Didn’t Polpot also behead people?
Mass executions? Hitler, Stalin, PolPot.
Systematic rape? Japanese under Tojo.
So Straw thinks Saddam was unique. I think he wasn’t.
Still haven’t proved your point.
He wasn’t unique – care to admit defeat yet?
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:45 pmBritain releases dossier of evidence arguing that systematic rape, torture, gassing, public beheadings and mass executions of Iraqis by Saddam Hussein are deliberate policy of his ‘regime of unique horror’
Leave it to Exley to confuse hyperbole with fact. Still waiting for your “proof.”
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:54 pmBarfly,
Now I am on MY way to the bar.
*Sigh* Fine…Saddam was not unique in among the dictators of all time.
But as John Burns explains in posting #125, he was a uniquely monstrous dictator in the modern world covering the last 30 years.
Happy?
Good night everybody!!!! Don’t forget to tip the waitresses. They’ve been good to you, so please be good to them!
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:56 pmDo I take my imaginary victory lap now, Exley?
Or as you would say:
“mission accomplished.”
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:03 pmI have to give Exley credit, she/he did earn its money today. In a diary/thread (whatever these things are called) illustrating the failure, gross negligence, and criminality of the actions of the USofA and its affect on the 27 million people of Iraq, he/she changed the discussion into an argument of semantics.
Let me put in a final word-Exley is a heinous agent who is not your friend and seeks only to confuse and diffuse. That is its sole purpose. I, for one, shall never again even read anything that it has to say let alone respond to it. You, of course, are free to make that choice for yourself. But if the USofA does not start facing reality and allow itself to continually have its attention diverted by lost blondes, sensationalized regional crime news, or just plain extremist gossip (of which Exley is a master to the level of an A.Coulter), then it will be lost.
Your choice.
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:04 pmhe was a uniquely monstrous dictator in the modern world covering the last 30 yearsExley
And so was Polpot . . .
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:07 pmRUCerious, are you serious???? It is pretty clear that I prove my point today…I mean, look at you. Even you are now acknowledging that Saddam was a murderous and evil dictator. That’s progress….I must say I have done a pretty good job here today…
Comment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 5:44 pm
Who said
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:10 pmBushSaddam wasn’t a muderous dictator?Stating – Good point. Not worth the heated air that exhumes from its corpse.
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:16 pmYou just gotta love how Exlax can take a single point out of context and rant “Mission Accomplished”!
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:21 pmHe must be taking lessons from somebody.
Hmm, Exley, are you a liar?
“Wha? How could that be???? After all, so many posters here at ThinkProgress keep telling us the the Iraqi people LOVED Saddam and that he really wasn’t that monstrous a dictator….”
…and then…
“DRxJ…I never said there was anyone here who “liked†Saddam. I did correctly point out that some TP posters have said in the past that the Iraqi people supported Saddam as their leader.”
I suppose it is true that you didn’t say anybody here “liked” Saddam. Technically it was “loved”
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:23 pm#142, Stating the Obvious,
Hey, where is that data that you promised back in posting #87????? What? Can’t hear you? Oh, right…Of course, you have nothing.
“I, for one, shall never again even read anything that it has to say let alone respond to it.”
I accept you surrender, Stating the Obvious. Your humiliating capitulation is a joy to behold.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:21 pm#147…Thank you, JPark. I appreciate your support. As you amply demonstrate, I never said any TP poster liked or loved Saddam Hussein. Thank you, friend.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:23 pmOh, Exley, but the Iraqi people loved Saddam right? Hell, I would be yearning for Saddam if I were an Iraqi just like I am yearning for Ronald Raygun with the current administration in power.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:32 pm#147,
Ah, JPark, I couldn’t agree with you more — Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th century, and third greatest president in U.S. history, after Lincoln and Washington.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:55 pm#148 No, of course he wasn’t but you obviously didn’t understand my point…intentionally.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:08 amAnd I never thought I’d miss Richard Nixon..
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:48 amNothing exceeds like excess.
September 23rd, 2006 at 2:13 amYou manouvered me into sweet bugger all liar. I have always said that Saddam was a dictator of the usual stripe (Right down to being a genocidal maniac.) That you claim to have manouvered me into it? You are a liar Exley. Point blank liar, and I do not appreciate somebody lying about me.
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:39 amI have seen what happens to a society that becomes enamored of such methods in its quest for greater security; it takes more than words and political compromise to beat back the impulse.
This is a new debate for Americans, but there is no need for you to reinvent the wheel. Most nations can provide you with volumes on the subject.
Vladimir Bukovsky…
http://www.miserywatch.com/2006/09/tortures_long_s.html
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:42 pm#155, Okay, Bruce, so you write, “I have always said that Saddam was a dictator of the usual stripe (Right down to being a genocidal maniac.) ” …
And yet you would have been perfectly happy to leave the Iraqi people to the not-so-tender mercies of the man you so correctly call a “genocidal maniac?”
How cold-hearted of you.
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