‘Values Voter Summit’ Features Attack on ‘Faggots,’ Claim That Gay Rights Movement Inspired ‘From The Pit Of Hell Itself’
‘Values Voter Summit’ Features Attack on ‘Faggots,’ Claim That Gay Rights Movement Inspired ‘From The Pit Of Hell Itself’
This weekend, some of the nation’s leading conservatives — from Tony Snow and Attorney General Gonzales to Sen. George Allen (R-VA) and Gov. Mike Huckabee (R-AK) to Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity — appeared at the Family Research Council’s “Values Voter Summit.”
An hour and a half after Snow’s speech, Bishop Wellington Boone, founder of the Wellington Boone Ministries, took the stage and announced, “I want the gays mad at me.” Boone said that while “the gays” are “saying a few things” about him, “they’re not coming at me strong.” In an effort to change that, Boone declared:
Back in the days when I was a kid, and we see guys that don’t stand strong on principle, we call them “faggots.” … [People] that don’t stand up for what’s right, we say, “You’re sissified out!” “You’re a sissy!” That means you don’t stand up for principles. [Click HERE to listen to the audio.]
As Right Wing Watch notes, another speaker at the conference later claimed “the gay rights movement was inspired ‘from the pit of hell itself,’ and has a ’satanic anointment.’ … He suggested that the anti-Christ is himself gay, citing a verse from the book of Daniel saying the anti-Christ will have no desire for a woman.”
Full transcript:
BOONE: This matter of gay — I want the gays mad at me. I’m not on enough of their hit lists. [Applause] Bless God. I want to tell you something, and I’m gonna get [inaudible] here, and I hope I don’t embarass anybody about this here. But I want to say something to you, that I’m not afraid of these people. And they do play dirty tricks, and they do try to, you know, you know, do stuff with your mailing lists, and they’re really nasty about trying to stop us from, you know, taking away their perversion.
But I want to tell you something is, they don’t know, we’re driven by God to deal with this stuff, and I want to say to you that, in this regard, I’m not playing with you. That when it comes to the matter of this gay stuff, I know that a family is not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. It’s a man and a woman. That’s the creative order, and I’m not backing down. I’m standing flat-footed on that right there. [Applause]
Everywhere I get to speak, I am guarded by the grace of God, being strong on it. Now they’re fussing on it, they’re saying a few things, but they don’t have me, you know, in their, you know, on their web sites. They’re not coming at me strong, and I would say this. Back in the days when I was a kid, and we see guys that don’t stand strong on principle, we call them “faggots.” A punk is — and our people, I’m from the ghetto, so sometimes it does come out a little bit. I got another one I’m gonna say in a minute — [laughter] — that don’t stand up for what’s right, we say, “You’re sissified out!” “You’re a sissy!” That means you don’t stand up for principles. And I just believe that God hasn’t called us to be sissies on a principle level. We’re called to be, to stand up and be men. I’m not talking about as in gender. I’m talking about man of God, men in the marketplace, and when a U.S. senator or congressman says that he wants me to vote for them, and he’s not biblically based — if he doesn’t have God as his Lord, how can somebody that doesn’t feel the need for God lead me?
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These same hate figure will be the same 30% still voting for bush ….bet ya
September 25th, 2006 at 4:56 pmAnd the fanatics are some Muslims?
September 25th, 2006 at 5:00 pmSo how long until the United States is a Theocracy?? 10 years? 20?
September 25th, 2006 at 5:01 pmStep right up! Come one, come all. Here the doucebag vent his spleen! No where on earth will you ever see a sight like this!
Ahh, the heck with it. I’m just not a good carnival side show barker. He’s still a douchebag, though.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:01 pmAs Jon Stewart has point out a myriad of times, the ones most hateful and vindictive of gays are often the ones themselves homosexual. Their announced hatred just masks their shame and/or confusion.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:02 pmBe ready. These will be the people that we DO go to war against. The threat of terrorism comes from people like this, and people like this alone.
Remember Ted Kaczynski?
Remember Timothy McVeigh?
Remember David Koresh?
Anyone? Does anyone remember what kind of terrorism was on the rise BEFORE the WTC floorshow? These people. Did not. Just. Go. Away.
I promise you. And now they are our biggest threat to keeping the country you know and love. Wake up.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:10 pmDid the Bible mention the Anti-Christs desire for Jeff Gannon?
September 26th, 2006 at 12:58 pmHow do they feel about National RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman coming from the aforementioned pit?
September 26th, 2006 at 12:59 pmDid the Bible mention if the Anti-Christ’s has a desire for Jeff Gannon?
September 26th, 2006 at 1:01 pmSo how long until the United States is a Theocracy?? 10 years? 20?
NEVER!
They would have to kill me first.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:01 pmTalk about insecure, fragile egos, low self esteem, haters. If these people weren’t dangerous, I would feel sorry for them.
How many more closet cases are there in the party of hate?
September 26th, 2006 at 1:01 pmgot another one I’m gonna say in a minute — [laughter] — that don’t stand up for what’s right, we say, “You’re sissified out!†“You’re a sissy!†That means you don’t stand up for principles.
That’s also what we said to Jimmy when he wouldn’t light the bag of crap we threw on old man Lewis’ porch. It would seem someone got called a sissy when he was younger – and now projects his feelings of inadequacy onto others.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:03 pmYeah and those of us who disagree with that? We are all HATERS.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:05 pmFirst the n-word, now faggot. God bless America, these people have no shame, no scruples, and no people-skills whatsoever. I become more and more ashamed to be “American” each day, when these people claim to be representative of what americans think. It’s so primitive…
September 26th, 2006 at 1:07 pmI’m so sick of ‘killing for Jesus’….so they say I’ll go to hell…well…I say prove it. You can’t prove a BELIEF. Thoes who give the jerks air time are just as guilty of their hate.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:07 pmAt this point the Repugs have little to run on but hate. They are good at that and it works for them.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:09 pmMore name calling?? And Bushco resents Chavez’s comment? Double standard anyone?
September 26th, 2006 at 1:10 pmSo this is what christianity has come to, eh?
Well, if those stupid christians would ever read the book they hold so dear, they might learn and understand that their god was much more interested in christians lawyering each other in various courts of law than he was in a little Gannon on Bush sex.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:12 pmThis feels like another effort to distract the public from the real issues that are beating up the GOP right now. The worst thing progressives can do right now is to take the bait and make this a national issue. So what if the likes of Coulter and Hannity are spouting more hate venom. No change can be made until the balance chances in Congress in November, so progressives NEED to keep the focus on the real issues that are hurting this country (Iraq, Afghanistan, wiretapping, Bush, etc).
There’s a reason Bishop Boone wants his rants all over left-leaning blogs. Let’s not fall victim to Rovian trickery yet again. PLEASE.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:12 pmJust another Chritian Taliban Fatwa, no surprise. The hate zealots are all from the same ilk.
You wonder why they are fixated on locking horns with Muslim Fundies? They are one in the same, there can only be one bully on the block.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:12 pmIt’s true, the gay rights movement IS inspired by satan, but that doesn’t mean you openly attack people, show intolerance for the individuals practicing homosexuality. This is what makes “christianity” twice as evil as what they claim gays are.
Now, I’ll get flamed as intolerant, bigoted, brainwashed, and probably even a neocon warmonger, but i’m still right. But don’t lump all christians in the same boat as those loons…same thing for good islamic practicioners vs. radicals. I love ALL people, even ones committing sin. A practicing homosexual is committing the same sins as a fornicator in my church. And before you flame, how bout trying to respect “MY RIGHT TO DISSENT” on this progressive comment board, even though I’m a liberal? :)
September 26th, 2006 at 1:15 pmwtf? all i can do is laugh at the stupid.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:19 pm#19 You are correct, Curtis. This is yet another attempt at distraction. November is too close for us to “take our eyes off the prize” (to borrow a phrase.) There is a very real lack of accountability in Washington that needs to be corrected this November. It’s good to have what they said there documented, but let’s not pretend it’s the most important thing to us right now. The more attention we pay to this topic, the less we pay to the even more dangerous things they are doing.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:22 pm“”It’s true, the gay rights movement IS inspired by satan”"
Link please.
Oh you don’t have anything but a strong heartfelt judgement?
You are confusing us for people who care about your opinion.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:24 pmHe suggested that the anti-Christ is himself gay, citing a verse from the book of Daniel saying the anti-Christ will have no desire for a woman.â€
I knew it!
You guys.
My ex is the antichrist.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:26 pmAmen to our republican representatives. We have to rid these homosexuals of this ungodly, despicable and disgraceful perversion. Jesus is coming back soon!
September 26th, 2006 at 1:27 pmWhatever happened to the “golden rule” (above all else) that all men are created equal? I think that the christofascists have forgotten that one.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:27 pmGays, Guns & God.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:29 pmThat’s it.
That’s what they stand on.
Simple, eh?
Now, if you had a gay guy with a gun preaching,
that would be everything they hate & fear.
That’s you, Mr. Boone. That’s you.
In short, the ‘values victims’ have nothing to fear
but themselves.
Christofascists are sick people, indeed.
ironchef
Homosexuality is not on the big 7 laws Noah put forward for everyone else to obey:
Avodah zarah – Do not worship false gods.
Shefichat damim – Do not murder.
Gezel – Do not steal
Gilui arayot – Do not be sexually immoral
Birkat Hashem – Do not “bless God” euphemistically referring to blasphemy.
Ever min ha-chai – Do not eat any flesh that was torn from the body of a living animal
Dinim – Set up a system of honest, effective courts, police and laws.
Golui Arayot is commonly considered to include homosexuality, but in real terms it doesn’t actually say what it means by immoral at all.
So in the case of an Atheist, one can still get into heaven -even if you are gay – provided you follow those seven rules.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:30 pmIf the Anti-Christ is gay, chances are he likes show-tunes. We can flush him out of hiding if we write a musial for him to star in. We’ll call it “ANTI-CHRIST, SUPERSTAR!!”
What could possibly go wrong?
September 26th, 2006 at 1:32 pmand I say unto you
Religion is the root of all evil
.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:34 pm21…”It’s true, the gay rights movement IS inspired by satan”…Jerry Falwell…great reference, ironchef.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:34 pmHe suggested that the anti-Christ is himself gay, citing a verse from the book of Daniel saying the anti-Christ will have no desire for a woman.â€
So the antichrist is Ann Coulter?
September 26th, 2006 at 1:35 pm#26 – Jesus is coming back soon!
Allow me to finish your paragraph…
Jesus is coming back soon. Quick! Look busy… and hide the bong!!!
September 26th, 2006 at 1:35 pmWhat the f*ck? Is it 1950 again? Any hood-wearing attendees?
Speaking of, why don’t liberals spend more time highlighting the KKK’s support for the GOP?
Religion is more deadly than a weapon when in the hands of the corrupt.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:35 pmIt’s true, the gay rights movement IS inspired by satan
o’ it is huh? and how do you know? have you talked to satan? just like you talk to the cumulus clouds wondering if bible school was right when sitting god on the puffy white cloud with his lamb at his feet opening the pearly gates. the bible sounds pretty evil to me.
the only evil i know is this administration practicing religious intolerance, social intolerance, economic intolerance by dropping bombs and bullets on anyone who is not with him. so what does he think of his fellow americans who are not with him? this is the guy who called out the leader of iran but won’t be in the same room as him. why can’t he look at him and call him the axis of evil? coward—i’d say. evil-i’d say. so who is the real evil doer? this is also the same people who shook hands with the grand masons. pike. israel. king of saud. obl.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:37 pmIt’s true, the gay rights movement IS inspired by satan
I think Satan was just yanking your chain when he told you that.
Great kidder, that guy.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:38 pmBruce+Gorton, please read Genesis and Galatians. Jesus condemned homosexuality as a forbidden act. It’s nothing but a demonic act being practiced (equivalent to witchcraft).
September 26th, 2006 at 1:39 pmThis guy is touched in the head. Seriously, this is an excellent example of the poor healthcare situation in the US. If the poor man had only been able to afford medication, he wouldn’t have such paranoid, delusional tendencies. He would also be off the streets and in a psychiatric hospital.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:39 pmBut our fanatic religious fundamentalists are better than the Taliban and all the other fanatic Islamic fundamentalists because our fanatic religious fundamentalists are ‘merikuns like Dumbya and Felix Macaca Allen.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:43 pmValues Voters = hater extremists = terrorists
This is Fred Phelps material. Values Voters Summit supports Fred Phelps’ agenda.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:43 pmGotta love the right (and I do mean right) Rev. Wellington Boone. Check out his website where he cites the “moral authority” for his view on homosexuality. Predictably, Rev. Wellington quotes Leviticus for the proposition that homosexuality is “an abomination.” ‘Course, he omits that little part where Leviticus says that the punishment for that there abomination is, um, death.
What’s amatter, Rev. Wellington? Are ya squeamish about applyin’ the death penalty to th’ gays? It’s right there in the Bible, in black ‘n white. So to speak.
Or, are you sayin’ that “Line Item Jesus” omitted that provision o’ Leviticus? Show me where, in the New Testament (or “The Sequel,” if you will), Jesus says: Homosexuality – still an abomination; death penalty for homosexuality – repealed. ‘Cuz if he didn’t say that, then it seems to me your “inerrant word o’ God” requires you to advocate makin’ gay sex a capital crime. (What the heck, they’re doin’ it in Iran – so why not right here in the U.S. of A., huh, Rev?)
And, let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that Jesus did, um, “implicitly” repeal those parts of Leviticus and other Old Testament texts that make homosexuality punishable by death. Riddle me this, oh God fearin’ literal-Bible-readin’ Christians: What kind of God would have killed people for havin’ gay sex? I mean, its nice to think God got a little kinder and gentler over time, but really – when and under what circumstances would it have been, ya know, okay to kill gay people?
Or is it more of that moral relativism our friends on the right are so fond of – ya know, it was okay to impose the death penalty for gay sex way back in th’ days o’ Leviticus, but it’s not okay today?
I really want to know where these homosexuality-is-an-abomination folks stand on the issue. If they really, really believe that gay sex should be a capital crime, they ought to have the stones to say so out loud, in public – and accept the consequences. If they don’t believe that gay sex should be punishable by death, then they should explain why it was “appropriate” for the God of Leviticus to prescribe death for gay sex, and why they believe it’s not appropriate today.
C’mon, folks. I’m waiting …
September 26th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWouldn’t it be best to just ignore them? Bitching about it is what they want us to do. Thinkprogress, just ignore this crap and focus on what’s important.
Stop giving them a voice damnit.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:47 pmSounds like boone is a certified homophobe. Maybe someone needs to do some checking on how many illicit affairs he’s had…hmmm? It’s generally the ones with an “axe to grind” who have the most sins to hide.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:47 pmJesusChrist_GodOfWAR, yes he is. Are you ready? Jesus, I pray that you help this individual to understand that heaven and hell is a vital issue pertaining to his/her soul. In your name I pray, amen.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:49 pmWelcome to the bible inspired gay hating FREAK SHOW.
Have any of these fools ever read a bible?
Do they have any children ?
Has any one of their children ever talked back to them?
HAVE THEY STONED THEIR CHILDREN TO DEATH YET FOR TALKING BACK TO THEM AS THE BIBLE TELL THEM TO, AND IF NOT, WHY NOT?
Sorry bible, they’re just not really “that” into you.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:50 pmOther abominations…eating shellfish and wearing clothing made from two types of thread. Are the neocons picketing “Red Lobster” restaurants or “Saks”? They couldn’t be hypocrites, could they?
September 26th, 2006 at 1:50 pmGee, so Boones one more attention whore.
I’d never expect that from a ‘religious’ leader.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:51 pmreligion breeds evil, talks evil and acts on evil. let’s not forget, bush said god(the invisible man, somewhere,lol) told him to go to war. so tell me is that christian like or satan like. and i’d like to see the memo from god to bush telling him to go invade, occupy another country and kill. it also should have the who, what, where, when, why on the memo.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:53 pmOh, and Boone, we don’t elect leaders to lead us, we elect them to represent us.
If you can’t get that right, maybe you should stay away from the political arena.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:53 pmJesus, please let our Senate and House propose and pass a bill banning abortion and adultery. We thank you for your word. Help progressives to understand that liberalism isn’t recognized under your biblical law. We thank you.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:53 pm#44
or they are not comfortable with their own sexuality!
September 26th, 2006 at 1:53 pmThis is not Christianity. These same people would crucify Christ if he was here today. These are not Christians, these are hateful, vile people. I can imagine that most of these hateful, judgmental, so-called Christians have had gay thoughts themselves. I’m sure some of them are closet gays. I’m positive most of them have skeletons in their closets that would humiliate them if exposed. These are people who have so much anger and hatred towards their fellow man, and we know that hatred stems from fear. What sinful behavior are they hiding themselves? Perhaps, when they seek forgiveness for their own sins they will then begin to love their fellow man the way Christ demanded of them.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:55 pmLOL this is funny, because most of the DC Republicans are closet queen fairy boys, just like George W. Bush who wants to be dominated by a male TOP, like Jeff Gannon!
September 26th, 2006 at 1:55 pmDaryll (38),
There’s a book out there that says Mary had a little lamb, should I believe that fairy tale, too? Not everyone believes what your 1600-year old book of fables says. Hell, even Paul’s letter to the Galatians is a very late forgery. When you start using logic and rationalism to debate your points, more people will listen to you. As soon as you bring up your invisible sky pixie, you’ve immediately lost the argument.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:56 pmDo you think a deal can happen here? The Christian Right can go on hating everyone that is not currently helping the Christian Right while the rest of us will go on hating them.
I am more fearful of Pat Robertson types, than the alqeda types.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:57 pmREAD YOUR BIBLE
“Ye though I say unto you, they shall raise up the least among them to the highest post and he shall appear as a monkee. The sheep shall follow and the lies shall flow like water from the sea. They shall believe his deceptions and follow him unto war with the wrong nation. And Cheney will shoot a guy in the face too.”
Lobotomy 9:11
September 26th, 2006 at 1:57 pm43 – Ignoring them will not make them go away.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:57 pmFEAR, FEAR, FEAR!!!
As a Christ loving Christian I cringe everytime I hear about one of these “meetings” where the red staters get in a group and decide how too focus their hate. With all the ills in the world they focus on “GAYS”? I mean do GAYS cause terrorism, global hunger, global warming, injustice to the poor and powerless, high taxes, infanticide, I could go on…. Why don’t they address some real issues and stop villifying everyone they do not agree with.
This is why I cannot look at or listen to Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh or any of the other Neo Crumb facist. Bush + Rove= Pinky & the Brain.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:58 pmThey’re just upset because they thought George Allen was going to be there boy. Now what’s an Evangelical Christian to do, Vote for an Abortionist like Rudi or a Mormon like Mitt? Are the Social Theocrats going to stay at home in 08 and lose the White House and the Congress? Awhhhh, dats so sad.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:58 pmDaryll,
Your God doesn’t have any influence over me, so save the Bible references. I don’t have time to engage in your fiction right now. Sell it to the weak-minded, they’re easier to convince and control.
“Demonic act”, witchcraft? Good gosh, I didn’t know Calvinism was still being practiced!
September 26th, 2006 at 1:58 pmp.s. Jesus doesn’t blog, so save your prayers for bedtime.
So why are they worshipping the former cheerleader and Gannonite…
G.W. Bush?
…and don’t forget for a moment…
…Lynn Cheney’s lesbian (fantasy? or memoir)…
September 26th, 2006 at 1:58 pmBIBLE COMEDY
Who said you Christian Taliban are not some wacky people. We love some of your twisted humor in the Bible. Was this covored during Sunday Sermon?
Incestuous Relations
“And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.” (Genesis 2:23)
“And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. and Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.” (Genesis 4:1-2)
“And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch…” (Genesis 4:17)
Comment
Since Eve came from Adam and due to God’s edict to “be fruitful and multiply,” this describes the first incestual relationship.
In 4:17 one must infer incest for Cain would have had to have sex with either his own mother, Eve, or an unnamed sister.
For other examples of Biblical incest see Gen. 20:12 where Abraham married his half-sister Sarah; Gen. 19:30-38 where Lot’s daughters had intercourse with him; Gen. 38:16 where Tamar had sex with her father-in-law Judah.
People should become aware that many of today’s incestuous abuses occur in Christian families and many use Biblical scripture for its justification.
——————————————————————————–
Passing Wind
Wherefore my bowels shall sound like a harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh. (Isaiah 16:11)
Comment
September 26th, 2006 at 1:59 pmThis passage refers to the flatulent passing of gas in musical fashion from the bowels of a prophet. Could this represent a rare instance of humor in the Bible?
I wonder how many “christians’ who are put off by “homosexual” sex have ever had anal sex with their partner, girl friend, a prostitute, secretary, neighbors wife or any other woman? Is their issue that anal sex is bad (recognizing that gay people engage in other types of sexual activity also). I guess if they have engaged in anal with someone of the opposite sex thats ok because “god” didn’t specifically call anal sex an abomination in the christian fairy tale book the bible if it was with the opposite sex. Only same sex anal buggering is bad. There’s another one of those biblical contradictions that makes me ecstatic that I abandoned organized religion when I was in college. I sleep with much less guilt now also.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pmDave+von+Ebers, the wages of sin is death. I don’t believe in physically killing individuals. God will deal with those who break his laws. The bible is as sharp as a two edge sword. That’s why most people in society create their own ideology about what’s ethically and morally correct because they feel biblical laws are hard to follow and endure.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pmWHERE ARE THE CHRISTIAN TALIBAN SCHOLARS???
Perhaps you bible scholars can clear up some magical thinking discrepancies. ANYONE?
Do you have a full beard? (Lev. 19:27)
Do you never eat shellfish? (Lev. 11:12)
Do you condone, under certain circumstances, prostitution? (Isaiah 23:17-1
Do you believe that the earth is flat? (Revel. 7:1). If you can answer all of this with a firm yes (and if you *can’t*, I shudder at your hypocrisy), I would like to invite you to join forces to eradicate all vegetarians (1 Timothy 4:1-3; Romans 14:2), since they are a much overlooked abomination in the eye of the Lord. There are enough Christians like yourself dealing with gays and lesbians, but the Lord will surely be pleased if finally someone (you??) starts the long overdue crusade against vegetarians!
Moses puts blood on Aaron’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. 8:23-24
God kills Aaron’s sons for offering “strange fire before the Lord.” 10:1-2
Hares are unclean since they chew the cud. 11:6
Bats are just unclean birds. 11:13,19
Four-legged birds are an abomination to God. 11:20
Insects have four legs. 11:21, 23
Baby girls are twice as dirty as baby boys. 12:1-8
God’s cure for leprosy. 14:2-32
What to do if “he that hath the issue spit upon him that is clean.” 15:8
What to do “if any man’s seed of copulation go out from him.” 15:16-18
Menstruating women are unclean to God. 15:19-30
God’s law for wet dreams. 15:16-17, 32
Don’t look at any naked menstruating women. 18:19
Don’t mix seeds when sowing a field or wear a garment with mixed fibers. 19:19
If you have sex with a slave woman, you must then scourge her. 19:20
Don’t round the corners of your head or mar the corners of your beard. 19:27
Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals must be killed. 20:9-12
Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. 20:27
The unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death. 21:9
Handicapped people must not approach the altar. 21:16-23
Cursers and blasphemers must be stoned to death. 24:16, 24
God’s instructions for buying slaves. 25:45-46
“Ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.” 26:16
God will “send wild beasts among you, which shall rob your of your children.” 26:22
“And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.” 26:29
God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men. 27:3-7
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pmJesus, please help Daryl to understand that he is no better than anyone else. Self-righteous republicans aren’t recognized under your biblical law. We thank you.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pmYou can’t argue with them while allowing them to use God or the Bible as a basis of fact, or you will lose everytime. Destructing the concept of God and the validity of Religion as a basis for governing is the only way to move forward.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pmTo all the ‘bad’ Christians: Personally I don’t believe in hell, and you can’t prove there is a hell,unless you relalize ‘people’ make hell on earth. When bible thumpers tell me ‘your going to hell’….I simply say ‘Prove it’. I’ve been hearing the ‘Jesus is coming NEXT WEEK’…stuff for my 67 years…oh please.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pm#57…ROFLMAO!!
September 26th, 2006 at 2:03 pmJesus, please let our Senate and House propose and pass a bill banning abortion and adultery. We thank you for your word. Help progressives to understand that liberalism isn’t recognized under your biblical law. We thank you.
Comment by Daryll — September 26, 2006 @ 1:53 pm
Exactly, Daryll. Cause we all know when Jesus fed the hungry and healed the sick, he only took care of those who had the means to pay.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:04 pm#57
lol
September 26th, 2006 at 2:04 pmJust a note here > the GOP group mentioned claims the anti-Christ is Gay, so I guess Chavez was right that he smells sulfur around Bush, since Bush likes guys and must be the devil > lol.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:06 pmDaryll, get a life! Seriously. People like you make me want to become an atheist. I am so tired of you judgmental people. I have never been so embarrassed to be a Christian. People like you, Daryll, should shut their mouths before you turn more people away from Christ. As a matter of fact, Daryll, why don’t you take all that energy you spend hating people and do something edifying with it. Take that energy and divert it to public service. Donate your time to help the elderly or the poor. Perhaps then, Daryll, you will see what life is through the eyes of Christ.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:07 pmPaul, once you’re able to guide your life around Acts 2:38 then you’ll understand about god’s glorious works during the B.C. and A.D. timeframe and even now. The bible is real, read Revelations.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:07 pmwow….Daryll really needs to wake up. I bet this dude has never traveled anywhere in the world other than to his church or his own backyard. Believe in God if that is what makes you happy and live a good life. Stop judging others and trust that everyone else is striving for a good and happy life. Daryll, if your ‘my Christian life is better than your Hedonistic life’ rhetoric brings you happiness, then you have lost your focus on what God really is. You are really no better than a Islamic fundamentalist.
Pray for peace…actually, demand peace. Promote love and tolerance. If two people love each other and they are consenting adults AND they are happy, my hats off to them. Let’s worry about real problems and work toward real solutions rather than the same old tired bible thumping.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:08 pmBarry Goldwater vs the Religious Right
“I don’t have any respect for the Religious Right.”
“Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell’s ass.”
“The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others,”
“A woman has a right to an abortion.”
“I am a conservative Republican,” Barry Goldwater wrote in a 1994 Washington Post essay, “but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state.”
When Sandra Day O’Connor was nominated to the Supreme Court in 1981, some Religious Right leaders suspected she might be too moderate on abortion and other social concerns. Moral Majority founder Jerry Falwell told the news media that “every good Christian should be concerned.” Replied Goldwater, “Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell’s ass.”
The five-term U.S. senator from Arizona was equally unimpressed with TV preacher Pat Robertson. When Robertson sought the GOP nomination for president in 1988, Goldwater wasn’t about to say amen. “I believe in separation of church and state,” observed Goldwater. “Now, he doesn’t believe that . . . I just don’t think he should be running.”
A few years later he told The Advocate, “I don’t have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country.”
While some Americans might find Goldwater’s stand against all interaction between religion and politics too sweeping, many would agree with his strong commitment to individual freedom of conscience on issues as diverse as religion in schools, gay rights or abortion. In 1994 he told The Los Angeles Times, “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means. They think I’ve turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That’s a decision that’s up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right.”
Goldwater, an Episcopalian, had theological differences with greedy TV preachers. “I look at these religious television shows,” he said, “and they are raising big money on God. One million, three million, five million – they brag about it. I don’t believe in that. It’s not a very religious thing to do.”
But Goldwater was also deeply worried about the Religious Right’s long-term impact on his beloved GOP. “If they succeed in establishing religion as a basic Republican Party tenet,” he told U.S. News & World Report in 1994, “they could do us in.” In an interview with The Post that same year, Goldwater observed, “When you say ‘radical right’ today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.”
But most importantly, Goldwater was deeply concerned about the Religious Right’s relentless war on the Constitution and basic American freedoms. In a Sept. 15, 1981 senate speech, Goldwater noted that Falwell’s Moral Majority, anti-abortion groups and other Religious Right outfits were sometimes referred to in the press as the “New Right” and the “New Conservatism.” Responded Goldwater, “Well, I’ve spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the ‘Old Conservatism.’ And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics. The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength.” Insisted Goldwater, “Being a conservative in America traditionally has meant that one holds a deep, abiding respect for the Constitution. We conservatives believe sincerely in the integrity of the Constitution. We treasure the freedoms that document protects. . . “By maintaining the separation of church and state,” he explained, “the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars . . . Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?”
Goldwater concluded with a waming to the American people. “The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others,” { he said,} “unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. . . We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn’t stop now” { he insisted}. “To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic.”
Say what you want about Barry Goldwater but the man was not afraid to say what he thought and spoke his convictions.
I also encourage you to see this. His grand =daughter CC Goldwater did a fantastic job producing this documentary
MR. CONSERVATIVE: GOLDWATER ON GOLDWATER
September 26th, 2006 at 2:09 pmhttp://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/mrconservative/
Why do you all think (mostly White, mostly conservative, soccer mom housewife types)…
…are killing themselves to look thin (ghostly pale and sickeningly fragile), and shave their pubic hair?
…because their significant others are:
a) pedophiles who like the little kid look…
or
b) gays who like little boys…
September 26th, 2006 at 2:11 pmDaryll (75),
Such claptrap. I personally was a Christian for many, many years and was instilled with the same nonsense as you are now. Claiming the Bible is real by quoting the Bible itself is circular logic and therefore invalid.
Now, you go read “The Christ Conspiracy – The Greatest Story Ever Sold” which will show that 1) The vast majority of the NT is a massive forgery, 2) That your Jesus likely never existed and 3) That Christianity is nothing more than a combination of many much earlier solar cults.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:13 pm# 75 If Acts 2:38 causes me to hate like it does to the christian fundies, I think I’ll skip it, thanks.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:13 pmThey hate in God’s name.
nothing blasphemous about that I guess.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:15 pmThe bible is real, read Revelations.
Comment by Daryll
Yes, the Bible is real (I own one), but there’s NOTHING in Revelations to prove ANYTHING in the book is factual.
Here’s a bold claim I’m making (and I know I’m right):
THE WORLD WILL END SOME DAY, AND IT WONT BE PRETTY (when our Sun runs out of fuel and blows up as a Super Nova, the Earth will be destroyed). And I don’t need a Theologian or one Secular point of view to convince me of this, thanks.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:17 pm…forget about the blathering morons quoted here…Everyone is missing the real point…
Focus on all the bush administration officials and media personalities that were there… Tony Snow and Attorney General Gonzales, Sen. George Allen (R-VA) and Gov. Mike Huckabee (R-AK), Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity…
They are the ones who should be called on the carpet!
September 26th, 2006 at 2:17 pmTexas Juice, Jesus didn’t create Adam for Steve and Eve for Evette. If you call your self a Christian (Christ-like) then you should practice his biblical laws. If not, you’re not a Christian, you just believe you are because of your generational background. Anyway, Christianity doesn’t exist, Jesus said (Ephesians) that his children should be perceived as holy. He never said call them christians, baptist, catholic, methodist………these are religious categories created and implemented by man. Jesus isn’t the author of confusion (Luke).
September 26th, 2006 at 2:20 pm“a verse from the book of Daniel saying the anti-Christ will have no desire for a woman”… that would indicate that the chances are that the “anti-Christ” will in all likelihood be a woman. If she opposes BUSH, I’ll follow her.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:21 pmBishop Boone: We’re not so much ‘mad’ at any of you guys; we’re f***ing heartbroken!…
At this past weekend’s “Value Voter’s Summit,” Bishop Wellington Boone (intentionally not pic.) expressed disappointment that gay activists aren’t “coming at [him] strong,” with the minister saying that he “wants the gays mad at me.” Full tran…
September 26th, 2006 at 2:22 pm“Gays are not mentioned in the New Testament for a reason. God got over it!” – Jesus.
It’s much more fun shaming Daryl into believing in the Christ he claims to worship.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:24 pmI encourage everyone to e-mail this bastard ( I did and it felt good!:)
September 26th, 2006 at 2:28 pmThese are the bottom feeders, people. Keep it in perspective. They are underestimating the millions of straight people who consider THEM to be inspired by satan.
Now I have to go. Need to listen to my new Christina Aguilera CD.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:28 pmthis is were i part with my conservative brothers. the most ardent opponents of theocracy in the middle east, don’t seem to make the connection here. conservatives often refer to the U.S. as a christian nation. we don’t understand how posting the ten commandments at a public courthouse could cause a non-christian to question the justice handed out at that courthouse. would christian parents sit quietly by, if a predominately muslim school distrist agreed to the pledge of allegiance, but with an ‘in allah we trust’ ending? we like to consider ourselves the party of freedom, in the tradition of the founding fathers. but then we feel confident imposing our views about morality on everybody else.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:29 pmArkansas = AR, not AK.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:30 pmwisedup, you’ll find out during judgement day.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:32 pmFrom the still adolecent “wallowing in boner mysteries”
Everywhere I get to speak, I am guarded by the grace of God, being strong on it. Now they’re fussing on it, they’re saying a few things, but they don’t have me, you know”… [no, I don't know], …
…in their, you know,… [no, no, I mean it; I really don't know what you mean], …
… on their web sites. They’re not coming at me strong, and I would say this…
Wow! [sigh!] One more big, tough, man, just gettin’ down, and begging for it!
Booorrrrrrrringgggg!
September 26th, 2006 at 2:34 pmToday Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out the *poison of immorality* which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of *liberal excess* during the past … (few) years.
Who said that?
[The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872]
September 26th, 2006 at 2:34 pmQUESTION NO XTIAN TALIBAN CAN ANSWER.
1. How does it personally affect you if someone else is gay?
2. If you’re ok with Billions of tax dollars going to Christian based groups then your ok with BILLIONS in tax dollars going to other faith based groups like Islam right?
3. Your ok with being used in fake wedge issues by Karl Rove like Gay marriage right?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:35 pmRepublicans+are+the+fear+and+smear+party, wrong, Jesus never indicated that same sex genders can marry and have intimate relationships. Cease adding your ideology to the bible because it’s condemned. There’s a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:36 pmI think Daryl is just pretending to be a conservative Republican bible-thumping hate monger.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:37 pmI’m a little disappointed in you GOP Christian Taliban
Ask a GOP Christian Taliban if they believe Hitler’s treatment of the Jews was evil and they will off course tell that it was.
Then ask them why sending all Jews to spend an eternity suffering in the depths of hell (a fate far worse than the horrendous treatment they faced in Hitler’s extermination camps) is not an evil act and they cannot respond.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:38 pmIsn’t it funny how those who call themselves Christians are the most hateful and the most immoral. They support war, they support torture, they support bigotry, they support the rich and ignore the poor. How do you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:41 pmwillis, you just refuse to accept god’s complete word. If you can’t do that, how can you be a christian, the descriptive terminology “christian” means christ-like. How can you be christ-like when you’re not following god’s complete word? Do you drink strong beverages? Do you constantly fornicate with others? Oh, and I have traveled to 16 countries within my lifetime.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:41 pmValues Voters Summit — more like the KKK against gays.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmNo values – just hate.
No summit – just a podium from which to spew very un-christian, amoral, hate speech.
Those who share the stage with them are demagogues at best — they are more like scum in a muddy swamp.
As they grow more bold, I believe their movement will backfire on them; people will see them as radical freaks and start backing away.
There’s a reason why homosexuals can’t reproduce.
Comment by Daryll
Then I guess your God doesn’t want many hetero couples to reproduce either (hence invitro fertilization). Why does Jesus not want them to produce?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pm#94 Get over yourself Darry, you’re not a christian in any sense of the word. And after forcing myself to read the rest of your nonsense, I can safely say you’re not an American either.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmAs some of you that take the time to read my post (thank you) know, I am conservative. I will concede that I am a supporter of gay rights. I don’t believe that two people in love should be restricted from getting married. The Constitution should only restrict government and not it’s people
September 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmIt’s time to tax the church.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:47 pmRepublicans are the fear and smear party, my firm colleagues will inform you that I love Jesus and my lifelong goal is to save as many souls as I can.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:48 pmDon’t like his comments about gays? then give his office a call:
770-840-0888
The lady I spoke with was a real jerk. She acknowledged that he said that and was upset with me for being upset about the word “faggot” being used in a public forum by “Bishop” Wellington Boone.
What a bunch of jerk-offs. Call them and give them some REAL HELL!
September 26th, 2006 at 2:48 pmDaryll, this isn’t a Christian blog. Can’t you find one where you can get together with people who are like you and all hate?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:50 pmFair Tax would take care of that.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:53 pmActually Darryl, I’m a big ol’ Jew. BIG JEW. When Christmas comes, I spell out BIG JEW on my front lawn with pine cones. It looks really wonderful in the snow and all the Baptist wives gasp in horror!
Seriously, Darryl, go read God in Search of Man by Heschel.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:55 pmAnAmerican, please don’t antagonize me or doubt my patriotism. Previously, I was a officer in the Marine Corps. Believe what you believe. I know I adhere to all of the laws, you hear that, ALLLLL OF THE LAWS in the bible.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:55 pmDarryl, are you a professor at PSU?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:57 pmI have a link for all of you to visit, . My overseer is pastor Gino Jennings.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:00 pmDarryl,
You follow all the LAWX from Leviticus? Because, it was Leviticus you were quoting earlier, wasn’t it?
You never eat shellfish?
Never wear clothing of mixed fibers?
Don’t cut the hair on the side of your head?
Sell your daughter into slavery the proper way?
Own slaves from Canada?
etc, etc, etc……
Do you support the death penalty as the Bible promotes for breaking these laws?
September 26th, 2006 at 3:02 pmDaryll
True, if you are a Christian, a Jew or a Muslim. If you are not you just have to follow the Noahide Laws, because God can’t go back on his word and those laws were supposed to be everyone else’s pass into heaven.
At least that is my plan should I prove to be wrong about this whole “God doesn’t exist” thing.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:03 pmwillis, good for you. I’m friendly with people of different descents/cultures. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?
September 26th, 2006 at 3:03 pm# 114, I’m not ‘doubting’ your patriotism, I’m saying there isn’t a patriotic bone in your body.
Anyone wanting any form of religion impacting our Constitution, is not an American.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:04 pmactually the scripture says that he *shall not have regard for the desire of women*
sounds to me like the antichrist will be a conservative republican.
If you believe that crap. Personally I think the fundies are sorely mythtaken.
: )
September 26th, 2006 at 3:08 pmHere’s a little something for the Bible-bangers:
Landover Baptist’s Bible Quizzes
September 26th, 2006 at 3:08 pmSigh.
I notice once again that none of our conservative posters (accept the conservatives here who say they DON’T agree with the religious right) can answer any of my questions. (No. 42.)
Why not? Seriously, folks. Have the courage of your convictions.
And, Darryl – Leviticus doesn’t say God will kill homosexuals; Leviticus says that we humans should impose the death penalty on people who engage in gay sex. So your answer in No. 65 is a cop out, plain and simple. If you don’t believe in “physically killing people,” you don’t believe in what Leviticus commands.
Welcome to the club! I don’t either. ‘Course, I think the whole biblical literalism thing is whacky in the first place, so at least I’m consistent.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:08 pmSure the Bible is real — it’s a real book, it has pages that you can read. So do my books on Greek and Roman mythology. Does that make them fact? Can they be proven? Or are they all based upon cultural superstitions, cultural practices and social mores of the time?
The faith-blinded confuse their faith with fact.
The Bible was written and rewritten many times over the centuries, one of the latest was the King James in the 17th century. Then there was the “living” Bible. There was always the Catholic vs. the Protestant Bible.
You can believe whatever you like – just don’t foist it upon me, my family or my country.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:12 pmAnAmerican, the constitution should have been based off of biblical laws. We’re currently living in a very unrighteous America that roleplays homesexuality. The FCC needs to remove Will & Grace, Ellen and Rosie O’Donnell from our television stations until these actors and producers come to their senses.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:15 pm# 125 “AnAmerican, the constitution should have been based off of biblical laws. ”
It wasn’t, so, you’re done.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:17 pmUm, Darryl, I don’t know about you, but I haven’t been “roleplay[ing] homosexuality” lately. (No. 125)
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:18 pmMarie, besides the bible, these books reflect the subject of idolatry. The catholic bible doesn’t exist. It’s a man made religion equivalent to muslims, christian science, mormons and methodist. The bible states to be depicted as holy. It never reflects to worship mary.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:21 pm“Dave+von+Ebers, the wages of sin is death.”
Sorry Daryll, the wages of sin is prison (if you live in a lawful society of course). If God will deal with ’sinners’ then why are there so many ‘Christians’ wanting to hang a ‘faggot’?
“because they feel biblical laws are hard to follow and endure.”
Sorry again Daryll, biblical laws were made up by some guys that decided what biblical laws should be and claimed they ‘talked to God’. The laws they wrote are very old and most don’t have any real application in todays world. Of course, when they wrote the laws they were writing them for themselves, much like changing the torture laws, to suit there own purposes.
“The bible is real, read Revelations.”
The bible is real, sure, but it was written by men, edited again by men, translated again by men, edited again by men and so on. There is NO proof that the bible was written by GOD. Get a grip.
” Jesus conducted many miracles. What about Lazarus? What about turning water into wine?”
What about Lazarus indeed! What about turning water into wine indeed! Where there? Did you see any of these miracles? I didn’t think so. Do you know of anyone that did see any of these miracles? I didn’t think so. These are STORIES and the men who wrote them down DIDN’T SEE THEM EITHER.
“my lifelong goal is to save as many souls as I can.”
It would be really amazing if you could define what a soul is but then you believe in God’s word being written by man.
Go back to your religious blog and your tiny world you live in. You nor anyone else can PROVE that God exists never mind forcing your biblical laws on me.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pmFor Daryll…
Want a few more rounds for you musket, Marine?
Notes on your previous comments.
The New Testament does refer to believers as Christians.
It’s in Acts 11:26: “The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.â€
http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Acts+11&version=31
It is true that Jesus never directly addresses the issue of homosexuality. Most of the comments in the New Testament on homosexuality are made by the apostle Paul. Paul notes this behavior in both the books of Romans and 1 Corinthians.
However, Jesus does remark on the God endorsed manner of human sexual expression. That’s in Matthew 19 where Jesus is quoted as saying: 4″Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
http://bibledev.azaz.com/bibleresources/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=Matthew+19&book_id=47&version1=31&tp=28&c=19
According to my understanding, the Bible says the God endorsed view of sexuality is one man one woman forever. To my view, if someone calling himself a Christian promotes a different view of sexual expression, I have the right to question what it is they truly believe.
I particularly like these verses in Matthew. In them, Christ endorses both the Genesis account of Creation and marriage between one man and one woman forever.
Christ also so alludes to the destruction of Sodom. Since many people make a point of commenting about what Christ didn’t say, I’ll comment on His allusion to Sodom. He didn’t say Sodom was a mistake.
You may have noted in the Old Testament book of Leviticus that there seems to be a hierarchy of evil. Something in the order idol worship, homosexuality, and child sacrifice. I’m not sure I got the order correct, and the text doesn’t say that one leads to the other. However, it seems to me that one of these types of sins leading to another in some sort of hierarchy of evil is suggested. You’re probably not surprised but I think abortion is child sacrifice.
Thanks for you persistence, Daryll, … and your service to the USA.
People behave sexually irresponsibly and the results are death – either from abortion or disease.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pmThis is the culture of death.
Dave+von+Ebers, I haven’t. I love my fiancee. I bet a lot of you didn’t know that once you marry your fiancee you bound to the individual for life until he/she dies. (Matthew) Those that do divorce and remarry, while their husband/wife is alive, are depicted as adulterers in the New Testament. The bible reflects not to marry if you can’t go into the marriage with your whole heart. We have a lot of adulterers in our society. Divorcing because you don’t feel the love anymore isn’t an excuse.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pmre #128
Um Daryll … this is satire, right?
Or are you that Daryll whose other brother’s name is also Daryll?
Honesly, I can’t decide which option is more chuckle-producing.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:29 pmThem homuh-seck-shuls make me feel all funny inside…kinda like the underwear section in the Sears and Roebuck catalog.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:30 pmDaryll,
Clean the pooh off of your pee-pee.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:34 pmGod bless you bitblt. We have to be persistent in explaining to society that homesexuality is wrong. Notice, I care for everyones’ soul, because if I didn’t, I would call all homosexuals “faggots”, create quotes like, “death to faggots”. I’m all about spreading Jesus’ love as well as informing others about his laws.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:36 pmYikes, Once you adhere to Acts 2:38, you’ll be able to comprehend about Jesus’ love. One you’re doing is commiting blasphemy and I feel sorry for your soul. Let me guess, you don’t have peace in your life.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:39 pmhow many books is MAN going to come up with? why cherrypick information to fit his/her lifestyle? why cherrypick books to fit in the bible? i’ll be expecting the third testament very soon.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:39 pmDarryl,
It seems to me in your most recent post you also said that divorce is a sin. Are you planning to support a constitutional ammendment banning divorce?
And, you still haven’t addressed the issue of stoning individuals who break these biblical laws as the bible commands.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:42 pmYHBT YHL HAND
(I didn’t read the preceding messages and won’t read any responses to this. Just an FYI)
September 26th, 2006 at 3:47 pmOkay, Darryl and bitblt, it’s time for you to answer the questions I raised in No. 42. I’ll break them down for you:
1. Do you believe that Leviticus provides authority for the proposition that homosexuality is a sin today?
2. If you believe that Leviticus’ admonition against homosexual sex remains viable today, do you believe that our laws should criminalize homosexual sex?
3. If you believe that the law should criminalize homosexual sex, should the punishment be death as prescribed in Leviticus?
4. If you believe Leviticus’ injunction against homosexual sex is a sin and should be criminalized, but that it should not be punishable by death, why not?
5. Where in the New Testament do you find any statement that Jesus, in effect, repealed the death penalty for homosexual sex?
6. Do you think it is morally acceptable to execute people for engaging in gay sex?
7. If you do not believe that executing people who engage in gay sex is morally acceptable, how do you square the God of Leviticus, who commanded that humans execute anyone guilty of engaging in gay sex, with your own moral code which finds executing gays to be abhorrent?
8. Is it possible that some portions of the Bible – say, the verses in Leviticus that call for the death penalty for gay sex – do not represent the inerrant word of God but were inserted by fallible human beings?
This is a sarcasm free post. I really want to know your answers to these questions.
Dave
September 26th, 2006 at 3:47 pmdon’t think so commented
on what he supposed the Christian view of the book of Leviticus to be in #117.
You don’t know what the relationship is between Christianity and the Old Testament book of Leviticus. You suggest what you think are the ways Christians are suppose to act or suppose to believe based on your lack of understanding of this relationship.
Instead of trying to explain this to someone whose interest is questionable, let me give you one or to items that are easy to remember.
You may have noticed that Christians don’t make animal sacrifices. The reason Christians don’t make animal sacrifices is because Jesus Christ is considered the perfect sacrifice.
Christ was sacrificed on the cross.
The ramifications of this sacrifice – specifically stated in the New Testament – is that the old law – the Jewish Law is not binding.
However, whatever is good behavior in the Old Testament remains good behavior in the New Testament.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:48 pmthat man reminds me of a man of principles, a man by the name of William J. Simmons, he believed what he believed and took no crap, of course he was one of the founders of the KKK but I degress.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#142 – the content of the Bible was an intensely political decision made by the Council of Nicea led by the sitting Roman Emperor. Also see the Nicean Creed, where the formerly monotheistic God was split into three: the dad, the kid and the spook. It marks the end of the time of Christianity as a religion of the persecuted and the start of it as the religion of the persecutors. So how do we account for the translation of much of it from Hebrew to Greek and then to Latin and then to 16th Century English. A bit dodgy to base your system of laws on a four-times translated work?
September 26th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
One of our thoughtful commenters suggested that we should ignore such cranks. I disagree. These people need to be shut down and shut up. Us normal thinking human beings are amused by these idiots and fail to address them, never taking them seriously enough until it is too late and those vocal, visceral few come to power.
It has already happened. Those narrow-minded fools who worshipped Leo Strauss and his philosophy now wish to carry it a few steps further.
To save our nation and our freedom we MUST take these religious zealots seriously and strike back without shame or inhibition. Do not shrug them off as inconsequential; they plan to win at all costs.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:05 pm“Yikes, Once you adhere to Acts 2:38, you’ll be able to comprehend about Jesus’ love. One you’re doing is commiting blasphemy and I feel sorry for your soul. Let me guess, you don’t have peace in your life.”
Well darryl, where I live there are no bombs going off so I would say I do have peace in my life. I have for a long time given up Faith for Truth. I’m just trying to spread the Truth. Unfortunately, people such as yourself put Faith before Truth.
Why would I adhere to Acts 2:38? Who wrote Acts anyway? Wasn’t it supposed to be Luke? Doesn’t Luke himself say that he wasn’t there to witness any miracles? ”
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.”
Well we know Luke didn’t witness anything but look, he investigated everything! Sorry Daryll, that doesn’t do it for me.
The bible cannot be proven to be the “Word of God”. Just because the rich and powerful of day decided it to be does not make it so. The Truth of how and why the bible was compiled is, for now, lost. There are even many more books that at one time were in the bible but someone decided to remove them – doesn’t that make you wonder at all?
Daryll, try and realize that Faith is not the only path to peace in life.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:12 pmDaryll (151),
No, you don’t fear “the lord”, you fear the unknown, fear death and enjoy having your own prejudices confirmed by a “higher being”. To paraphrase someone (I forget who right now), you can tell that a religion is man-made when its god hates all the same people its followers do.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:13 pmPaul, Jesus loves everyone, but if you love him you’ll follow his commandments.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:18 pm- Thomas Jefferson
September 26th, 2006 at 4:20 pmbitblt – I know a thing or two about the New Testament, having been a Catholic for 44 years. So please, I don’t need the lecture.
(Oh, and Darryl, thanks for parroting some good ol’ fashion anti-Catholic bigotry along with your anti-gay bigotry. Nice to know some things never change. One li’l point of order, though: the “man” you refer to who started th’ Catholic Church? His name was, um, Jesus Christ or something. Of course, he wasn’t nearly as Godly as, say, Martin Luther or King Henry VIII – ya know, two of the men who started the Reformation …. But I digress.)
And, um, bitblt, I believe YOU quoted Leviticus in support of your views on homosexuality, so I think its fair to ask how much of Leviticus you really believe in.
Anyway, bitblt, why can’t you just answer my questions?
You say that “the Jewish Law is not binding” after Jesus came ’round. Well, that may be but that general injunction would mean that ALL of Leviticus falls. Leviticus is, after all, a legal code. So, if Leviticus made homosexuality a crime (and it did), that law is no longer effective.
You try to straddle the middle position by saying that “whatever is good behavior in the Old Testament remains good behavior in the New Testament,” but notice how you’ve changed the terminology in a very significant way. Now, by your definition, homosexuality is simply “bad behavior,” like picking your nose or biting your fingernails (though I can’t say I recall a specific Biblical injunction against the latter two; still, they’re pretty gross!). So, are you saying that homosexual sex is just bad behavior? Which means, I suppose, that it should not be outlawed (’cuz, ya know, Leviticus no longer applies).
And again, you fail to answer the underlying questions that I pose in No. 144. Specifically:
6. Do you think it is morally acceptable to execute people for engaging in gay sex?
7. If you do not believe that executing people who engage in gay sex is morally acceptable, how do you square the God of Leviticus, who commanded that humans execute anyone guilty of engaging in gay sex, with your own moral code which finds executing gays to be abhorrent?
8. Is it possible that some portions of the Bible – say, the verses in Leviticus that call for the death penalty for gay sex – do not represent the inerrant word of God but were inserted by fallible human beings?
I am particularly interested in your answers to questions 6 and 7. Seems to me, you got a lotta ’splainin’ to do …
September 26th, 2006 at 4:21 pm#128 Daryll
ROTFLOL
Your unquestioning faith is blinding you.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:22 pmYour comments are illogical and contradictory, prejudiced and downright stupid.
- Thomas Paine
September 26th, 2006 at 4:26 pmDave+von+Ebers, Jesus didn’t create the Catholic faith. Please prove your statement in detail.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:30 pmi think i can guess the fun name his fellow american george allen has for old wellington boone, and it ain’t mohawk. wellington must know his place for george to show up. what is the catalyst by which the axiom ‘opposites attract’ becomes ‘like unto like’? banquet food? bad hair? bile? here’s hoping it’s legionaires disease.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:32 pmDaryll (164),
What exactly is purported to have been said by Jesus regarding homosexuality? I’m not taking about Paul’s forged spewing, I’m talking specifically about words attributed to Jesus. Hint: Nothing at all. Of course it doesn’t matter since he never existed in the first place but was a collection of characters and just one of the world’s supposed crucified saviors, but whatever.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:32 pmMarie, once you adhere to Acts 2:38 then you’ll understand, but until then you’re considered a lost soul.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:33 pmYikes > 153 Well we know Luke didn’t witness anything but look, he investigated everything! Sorry Daryll, that doesn’t do it for me.
How do you get your news everyday? Are you an eyewitness to all the news reports you receive every day?
Perhaps you’ve heard that Christianity is a faith. It’s something you believe. Even the New Testament book of Hebrews explains it that way.
This is not a cop out. I know it’s a faith. Could it be the case that you don’t know that you have faith in those that deliver your news?
Do you have a source for making this statement? A link or a reference? Something other that “The Da Vinci Code?â€
You seem to have overlooked the fact that the New Testament has much to say about the rich – almost all of it negative.
Since you’re so keen on undermining the Bible, do you perhaps have another book that strongly promotes good behavior? One that has the influence of the Bible?
September 26th, 2006 at 4:33 pmDave+von+Ebers, Jesus didn’t create the Catholic faith. Please prove your statement in detail.
You first.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:36 pmbitblt (170),
Why would anyone need a book that promotes good behavior? I have a conscience and empathy, that’s all I need. I don’t need a collection of myths telling me who to hate and who to judge.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:41 pmHow do thye know the Anti-Christ will be a man maybe the verse means it will be a woman !!!
God save me from your followers…
September 26th, 2006 at 4:44 pmDave+von+Ebers > 161 bitblt – I know a thing or two about the New Testament, having been a Catholic for 44 years. So please, I don’t need the lecture.
Since this is the case, why don’t you explain it more perfectly to me? I’m open.
I think I’d prefer teaching over questions designed to entrap.
In fact why don’t you answer your questions for me?
September 26th, 2006 at 4:47 pmGary+Kleppe, I can’t. It doesn’t exist in the bible. I don’t understand why Catholics continue to worship an idol. Why don’t you prove how Jesus created the Catholic faith?
September 26th, 2006 at 4:51 pmDaryll (181),
Catholics worship the same deity as you do. You’ve probably been reading way too many Jack Chick tracts. Jesus didn’t create any church, man did. The earlier churches were matriarchal and were abolished in the first few centuries CE. Not one church that exists today except for maybe the gnostics existed right after the time of Jesus’s supposed teaching.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:00 pmFor a woman to pleasure a woman, she must add a strap-on. For a man to please a man, he must go through his rectum (not natural).
Someone spends way too much time thinking about dirty, nasty, sex, don’t they? I haven’t asked the lesbians I know how they pleasure each other, nor the gay guys. Bedroom activity between consenting adults is none of my business.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:02 pmThe US is a thocracy as of right…5 years ago….
September 26th, 2006 at 5:02 pmMore christian homophobia. *sigh*
I would like to say something, but I’m too angry and would say things that would probably get me banned for swearing. So, I won’t.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:06 pm#182 – Rick Santorum suggests using a dog. I’ve not had the opportunity to ask him why.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:14 pm“but homosexuality is codemned”
So is judging people.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:15 pm#174
September 26th, 2006 at 5:29 pmI looked up Acts 2:45 and I see another verse that is conveniently overlooked by the wealthy christians who would deny services, health care, and other necessities to the needy.
So much for following the Bible literally.
Gay people are “sodimites” that offer society nothing.
Oh, wait a minute, now I remember a contribution that Gays gave us … AIDS !!
September 26th, 2006 at 5:29 pmDaryll Said, ” For a man to please a man, he must go through his rectum (not natural).”
———————–
That’s funny, I always thought the way to man’s heart was through his stomach.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:36 pm#198 what shall we do with people who offer ’society nothing’, Greg?
September 26th, 2006 at 5:39 pm“How do you get your news everyday? Are you an eyewitness to all the news reports you receive every day?”
Getting the Truth in news is and never has been easy. The news reports I receive everyday are reported by living people whom I can only hope recount what they see or directly what others see. You must use your brain to decide which reports are the Truth but at least in 2006 we can get news from more than one source. Unlike the bible stories.
“Perhaps you’ve heard that Christianity is a faith. It’s something you believe. ”
And so if I choose not to believe in that faith then niether you nor any Christian has any right to tell me to follows those laws based on faith. This is so hard for you and other Christians to understand.
” 3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. ”
I’ve got a good science background so I am well aware that what is seen, like this computer of mine or me or you, is made out of very, very tiny subatomic particles that you can’t see. When the ‘ancients’ wrote that you must be aware that subatomic particles where not known to exists. Of course, back then as now, God isn’t known to exist either.
“Could it be the case that you don’t know that you have faith in those that deliver your news?”
Oh believe me. I have a very clear idea of those that deliver the news that I don’t have faith in.
“The bible cannot be proven to be the “Word of Godâ€. Just because the rich and powerful of day decided it to be does not make it so.
Do you have a source for making this statement? A link or a reference? Something other that “The Da Vinci Code?—
LOL. Do you really think it was some no name poor men that decided to compile other men’s writing and call it the “Word of God”? I would guess that it was some church and back then the church was powerful. A link or a reference – try using logic. “The Da Vinci Code, what is that, some book that doesn’t subscribe to your myths?
“You seem to have overlooked the fact that the New Testament has much to say about the rich – almost all of it negative.”
Sorry, I’ve overlooked the whole new testament because it is a myth. Interesting how other culters have myths that parallel yours.
“Since you’re so keen on undermining the Bible, do you perhaps have another book that strongly promotes good behavior? One that has the influence of the Bible? ”
Why do you need a book to tell you how to behave in a good and honest manner? Do you think that humans, without a book, are incapable of good behavior? Your Faith has left you delushinal.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:40 pmI had a co-worker ask me “If you’ve never had sex with a woman, how do you know you’re not straight?”
I responded, “So, when did you try sleeping with a man to see if you’re ot gay?”
His response “Fair enough!”
Come on, people! If you want to use the Bible as your “truth”, go right ahead. Just be honest that you pick & chose what to believe. If you “claim” to follow the Bible in it’s entirety, then call me when you tell women shut up in church so I can watch you get your head slapped so hard your grandchildren will be born with headaches. ;-)
September 26th, 2006 at 5:42 pmOh, wait a minute, now I remember a contribution that Gays gave us … AIDS !!
Comment by Greg+(G-Dawg) — September 26, 2006 @ 5:29 pm
——————————————————-
Actually, AIDS was created by the pharmaceutical industry when it was testing the Polio vaccine in the Congo. It seems they used Chimpanzee flesh as their starter culture for the vaccine and all of their testing was done on Africans living in the Congo. Too bad chimps were carrying SIV, which mutated into HIV. The infection patterns of the early days of the disease blossomed only in the Congo. Africa is a big place, why only there?
September 26th, 2006 at 5:44 pmPaul, why do you worship Mary? You’re breaking commandment #1, “thou shalt not worship idols”. Jesus never instructed anybody to worship Mary. Jesus is a jealous god.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:45 pmDemocrat Soldier, (Corinthians) women are supposed to keep silence in the church, which means their not allowed to preach/teach, but they can prophecy.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:47 pmJune, I’m not judging, I’m just informing everybody what the bible reflects/instructs. If you don’t like it, argue with god, or discuss it during judgement day.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:49 pm#212 – “women are supposed to keep silence in the church”
Keeping silent is “shutting your cake hole”.
Now you’re trying to change the meaning of words to meet your narrow philosophy! When the Bible says “keep silence”, which word doesn’t make sense to you? “Keep” or “silence”???
Everyone in the worlds picks & chooses which particular verses of the Bible to follow. Everyone!
If they didn’t, their heads would explode over all the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:52 pmJesus is jealous? Of his mother?
September 26th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#209 – By the way, AIDS afflicts more heterosexuals world wide than gays. That’s a fact that is very inconvenient for those who claim it’s God’s punishment against gay people, like silly “Greg+(G-Dawg)” claims.
I can only assume that ‘ol G-Dawg is on the “down low”. ;-)
September 26th, 2006 at 5:54 pmMarie, unlike most Americans, monthly, I give a substantial amount to the Red Cross, Save the Children, 700 club food bank, and even help the homeless. I’m more giving then most of you liberalites.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:57 pm#220, a little self-righteous arent’ you?
September 26th, 2006 at 6:02 pmYou have no idea what I contribute.
If the terrorist set off a “dirty bomb” in America, let’s hope they set it off in San Francisco.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:24 pmIf the terrorist set off a “dirty bomb†in America, let’s hope they set it off in San Francisco.
Comment by Greg+(G-Dawg) — September 26, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
————————————————-
G-Dawg, (are you even black, by the way?), San Francisco is part of the United States and you really shouldn’t side with the terrorists in their wish for the destruction of America.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:29 pm#232 – Why wait for that Greg, zyklon-B can be made at home in your garage? Your posts would be more effective if you left them in the original German.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:33 pm“I’m more giving then most of you liberalites.”
Here is yet another example of YOUR sin. That makes at least 2 in just the time you’ve been posting here today.
The Bible teaches: Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Keep up the good work, hypocrite.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:40 pm#246 – Intelligent Design of course….if you had gone to school in Kansas you’d know that! /sarcasm off
September 26th, 2006 at 7:06 pmWhip me,….beat me,……..make me write bad checks you brutal gays,…ooogah.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:27 pmJune, you’re probably just another one of the americans who writes off their voluntary contributions during tax season. Shame on you.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:28 pmNo wonder Air-Head America Radio is on it’s last leg. Because you liberals DON’T TELL THE TRUTH.
Look at the comments of #234 & #235.
They claim that I want America to get attacked. I NEVER SAID THAT OR ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT.
I said “IF” … “IF” …. “IF”…..
This is exactly why no one listens to Air-Head America, this is why mainsteam America pays no attention to you liberals.
PS > Air-Head America Radio will be completly gone within 9 months.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:31 pmCome out of the closet riechwingers and support your master.
-Your dear Auntie Christ
September 26th, 2006 at 7:41 pmYa … Ok…. Whatever.
Now go drink another glass of kool-aid.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:57 pmFunny thing is that Pat Robertson (lightbulbhead) is an expert on meat puppets I’ll bet..I’ll bet
September 26th, 2006 at 8:02 pmTheses theocons make a game out of hate. It goes to show that some people have no sense of decency
September 26th, 2006 at 8:04 pmWellington Boone (A fairy name if I ever heard one!) needs to keep in mind that people walk out their front doors into burlap bags and get beat up by 2×4’s every day.
Honestly, the preoccupation with what I do in my private life is just that side of stunning. Couldn’t they fixate on something else, like the injustices of the world?
September 26th, 2006 at 8:34 pmSoooo does this gay hatred apply to Cheny’s daughter or is she exempt?
September 26th, 2006 at 9:02 pmIf the terrorist set off a “dirty bomb†in America, let’s hope they set it off in San Francisco.
Comment by Greg+(G-Dawg) — September 26, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
Another O’Lielly BOT. No orginal thoughts just whatever they hear from hate filled rightwingnuts. If O’Lielly told Gregg to hate Jesus he would.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:31 pmI have a friend who moonlights as a dominatrix. She told me her client base are all married rethuglicans. These very people trample on the rights of others all the while being the worst offenders of sexual deviancy. Go figure.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:40 pmSo how long until the United States is a Theocracy?? 10 years? 20?
NEVER!
They would have to kill me first.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
I’m with you, Wayne.
No wonder TP took down this thread yesterday…the hate coming from the supposedly compassionate religious commenters is palpable. Your god would be disappointed in all of you.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:49 pmWhat’s next, homosexuals put into camps???
My God!!! These people spew blasphemy like Vesuvius spit ash in 79.
My only hope is that these “righteous” “God-fearing” individuals fear the wrath they have coming to them when their “Savior” comes back and shows them that they are the ones who are perverts, perverts of true humanity.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:52 pmThe Blue states need to seperate … Join Canada …
September 26th, 2006 at 10:05 pmThe United States of Canada … and below us …. JesusLand
Slap, you’ll find out during judgement day. We will not willingly allow homosexuality in this country. Jesus said it’s wrong, so it’s wrong. Deal with it.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:06 pmZooey, are you sure about that?
September 26th, 2006 at 10:07 pmBigRosie, no, homosexuals need redemption.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:10 pmRethuglicans??? this is great material!
i love how all of your replies totally put aside the point of each debater. you simply call them a thug, robot, etc, etc…very astute responses.
you believe christianity is more of a threat than radical islam (the rosie odonnell thesis)…?!?!?
what planet do you all live on? whose side are you on? you seem to take the side of the very people trying to harm us…radical islam. you do anything you can to deflect criticism away from islamic radicals and deposit it on the bush administration, the country you call home, the people of america, the american military, etc. are you that low that you are willing to put your country in danger and those that call it home so you have a better chance at the ballot box?
everything that is wrong is our fault, right? 911 was our fault. uss cole was our fault. khobar towers, our fault. it is our fault bin laden declared war against the US.
one thing is for sure, god help us all if your ideology ever reaches a position of power.
please realize the true danger is osama and his ilk. not bush, not the american military, not nutty pastors on the 700 club. the simple fact that you propagate your ideology endangers all americans because it gives aid to osama and the rest of his cronies. they feed off of your misplaced anger and naive assumptions/claims.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:17 pmI just imagine someone sitting here typing getting mad at someone they can’t see or truly understand there intent. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light. Reading the Bible and praying to God is the way to salvation. I have gay friends. Actually one gay friend. I guess the issue here is legitmitation. In a post modern, post Christian world do we legitimize particular ways of life? The media sells a message that we accept everyone’s way of life and many people get programmed into believing this is okay. God is not a prescription you take and everything is better. God is a decision that is made to be a man and stand up for what you believe in. Change your mind and God will change your heart. My friend is a deviant. If being gay were fully accepted it would be something else. He has created it as his identity and there cannot see the road he is traveling leads to destruction.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:18 pmZooey, are you sure about that?
Comment by Daryll
Yes.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:28 pmThis is just great. I leave for a few hours to get some work done, I return and what do I find? Darryl continues to spout anti-Catholic bigotry, without answering any of my substantive questions, and bitblt flat out refuses to answer them (No. 179.)
By the way, Darryl, the reason Jesus is said to have started the Catholic Church is that the Catholic Church evolved out of the original Christians who followed the original Apostles. It’s called Apostolic Succession. And, I notice you dodged the point about Martin Luther and Henry VIII – how do you explain how those men had the “authority” to start churches (especially Henry VIII, who broke with Rome so he could get laid. Nice way to start a church.)
And bitblt, I’m not the one who says homosexuality is a sin, or should be punished at all; you and Darryl take that view. So, my questions are perfectly valid – and you really should give them some serious thought, whether here or elsewhere.
But, since you refuse to answer my questions, bitblt, I’ll be happy to provide my answers:
1. Do you believe that Leviticus provides authority for the proposition that homosexuality is a sin today? No. I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin in the first place. Leviticus was wrong, then and now.
2. If you believe that Leviticus’ admonition against homosexual sex remains viable today, do you believe that our laws should criminalize homosexual sex? Not applicable – see Answer to No. 1. The law should treat homosexual relationships exactly the same way it treats heterosexual relationships.
3. If you believe that the law should criminalize homosexual sex, should the punishment be death as prescribed in Leviticus? Not applicable – see Answer to No.s 1 and 2.
4. If you believe Leviticus’ injunction against homosexual sex is a sin and should be criminalized, but that it should not be punishable by death, why not? Not applicable – see Answer to No.s 1 and 2.
5. Where in the New Testament do you find any statement that Jesus, in effect, repealed the death penalty for homosexual sex? Jesus never directly addressed the fact that Leviticus prescribed the death penalty for gay sex. He never expressly approved it or condemned it.
6. Do you think it is morally acceptable to execute people for engaging in gay sex? Absolutely not, under any conceivable circumstances, whether in the U.S. or, say, Iran – where they have been executing homosexuals lately.
7. If you do not believe that executing people who engage in gay sex is morally acceptable, how do you square the God of Leviticus, who commanded that humans execute anyone guilty of engaging in gay sex, with your own moral code which finds executing gays to be abhorrent? You can’t reconcile the two. There is no way God could have done or condoned anything as despicable as killing people for being gay or having gay sex. Leviticus must be wrong.
8. Is it possible that some portions of the Bible – say, the verses in Leviticus that call for the death penalty for gay sex – do not represent the inerrant word of God but were inserted by fallible human beings? There is no other possible explanation for Leviticus.
Okay, now you have my answers. So, bitblt, put up or shut up. How do you answer those questions?
September 26th, 2006 at 10:28 pmALL fags will burn in hell!!!
September 26th, 2006 at 10:34 pmEurhythmics 10:5
I was born an original sinner.
I was born from original sin.
And if I had a dollar bill
For all the things I’ve done
Thered be a mountain of money
Piled up to my chin
The missionary man
He’s got God on his side.
He’s got the saints and apostles to back him up from behind.
Black eyed looks from those Bible books.
Hes a man with a mission
Got a serious mind.
There was a woman in the jungle
And a monkey on a tree.
The missionary man he was followin me.
He said stop what youre doing.
Get down upon your knees.
Ive got a message for you that you better believe.
Why is all this so difficult for right-wingers to understand?
Point 1) The major selling point of Christianity is that if you don’t believe, you’ll be ruthlessly slaughtered along with the other 3 billion or so who are left after the believers are whisked off to heaven. So the ‘God of Love’ is going on a tangent of planetary genocide because some of his ‘children’ wouldn’t follow instructions that he knew weren’t going to be followed by the people who he’s going to massacre? That kind of logic makes me dizzy. It’s really poor marketing.
Point 2) Call us any name you want. The simple fact is that conservatives have been in complete control for the past six years and everything, EVERYTHING they have done regarding domestic or foreign policy has been a complete and utter disaster. If you Bush lovers are ‘right’ about everything, why does everything you do make whatever situation you’re addressing worse?
Point 3) If Christianity is the answer to everything that ails society and you want to incorporate it into public policy, there is a mechanism built into the constitution. Why don’t you start yourselves an advocacy movement to rescind the establishment clause. It only takes 3/4 of the House, 3/4 of the Senate, and 38 State Legislatures do get it done.
This backdoor stuff your doing makes you look slimy. Can’t you win by doing the ‘right’ thing?
September 26th, 2006 at 10:46 pmWell lmao why did Bush say out of his own mouth that Osama wasn’t much of a concern any longer if he’s the sole true danger you’re claiming. Why in 5 years.. the VERY reason we went to war ie Osama.. has not been found? My anger is not displaced it is pointed directly towards the liars who have put us in more harms way than ever before AND who have no interest in finding osama until election time.. when they most likely will trot him out like a cheap kroger veggie platter at an office party. My anger is placed towards the people who broke families apart for a lie of a war.. sent men and women to be slaughtered.. all the while NONE of these neocons children are sent off to this war they soooooo believe in nor are the neocons volunteering to go off to war.. why is that? The very people who call us traitors if we dont believe in this doo doo are sitting comfy cozy in their pallatial virginia mansions with stepford christian wife serving up cognac.. why aren’t these republicans dressed in fatigues dodging bombs crawling on their cowardly yellow bellies and fighting this mess they helped create? Anyway… my anger is directed and pointed sharply at the right people just fine.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:49 pmWe wouldn’t and couldn’t have this mindless discussion without our freedoms. The freedoms that fanatical Islamic ideology would crush if given the chance. Let’s get on the same page and win this war. Then we can debate whether gays are just mixed up and in need of the loving word of Christ or if Christians are the root of all evil.
Debate is good. Mindless name-calling and reliance on books of the Old Testament, without proper context, ushers us into the same world of those that would force us into the 7th century, when Islam was born. You’d think that a little thought, instead of childish emotion, would prevail.
But then again, those spewing the childish emotion seem to want to give another try at a lifestyle and society prevalent in another failed empire. The Roman Empire. They too failed to realize that with freedom comes responsibility. And enjoying their decadence, they underestimated the power of belief. A belief which crushed them and threatens to do the same to us.
It appears we are doomed to repeat history if we don’t wake up.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:54 pmYou know, not all Repubs. are bigots and homophobes, but it seems all bigots and homophobes are Republican…….
September 26th, 2006 at 10:59 pmDaryll
September 26th, 2006 at 10:59 pmI have a few comments for you. If you believe, think, and feel that you have a right relationship with God – good for you. However, do not think that what you are doing on this thread is God’s work. The Bible is specifically for believers to guide their own relationship with God. It is not a weapon to punish or condemn non-believers. It is not a tool to convert others. You, as a person, cannot “save” anyone – this is both a practical truth and a Biblical truth. You are taking a single issue, homosexuality, and making it the central theme of your theology. That is not what Jesus called for – the two greatest commandments, love God and love others, are the basis for all the laws and commandments of God. Two consenting males, or females, who love each other and express that love sexually and also love God may very well be more Christian in God’s eyes than you who condemn and judge, an act of idolotry. Finally, Christ specifically called for his followers to render unto Caesar what is Caesar and unto God what is God’s, most assuredly erecting a wall separating church and state, the spiritual world and the secular world. Let God decide the homosexuality issue. Our job, as Christians, is to live a life that reflects God’s love, not to jam it down anyone’s throats, nor to try to get anyone to change what they do.
Imao:
I must agree with parts of your post. However, I would like for someone who supports all things Georgie to help me understand why government goons having warrantless access to my medical records, purchase histories, email and telephone conversations, my government transfering trillions of dollars that they’re BORROWING to soulless corporations, kidnapping people off the street, torturing and detaining them with no legal rights or charges, the House and Senate completely failing in their oversight responsibilities and the sytematic blurring of the lines of Church and State are NOT dangerous trends about which I should be concerned. Why should we as citizens be comfortable with any of that given the horrible lack of any indicators of competency on the part of W?
September 26th, 2006 at 11:02 pmGreat job bthuthful……You have way more patience than I do concerning the extreme bible thumpers……I loose patience with people that say do as I say not as I do….Blessings..Peace…
Did ya all know that the majority of rapests and pedaphiles are pronounced christians? ..Read that somewhere.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:06 pmMizbhaven,
Do you realize that over 70% of active duty, guard and reserve military forces in this great country voted for their Commander in Chief in 2004? I would venture a guess that a large number of them are Republican. Seems by a large margin, it’s Republicans that are fighting and dying for our freedoms. Yet those honorable men and women still voted for our President. Maybe your anger would better be directed at our enemies, instead of your own country.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:09 pmTo all Christians who are still reading this thread… Matthew 5:42, “Give to the one who askes you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”
In compliance with Matthew 5:42 you must all send me your wallets (and their contents). Since you are Good Christians I will expect to receive your wallets in a timely fashion.
Thanks again :)
Oh and before I go – Daryll casts some wild aspertions about What Gays Do and I thought someone should tell Daryll to try Googling something men have called the pudendal nerve.
You might find something like this: “the ano-rectal area of men is innervated with the same nerve that innervates the penis (the pudendal nerve) and stimulation of this region (specifically of the prostate) can, by itself, produce orgasm in the male.”
There ya have it. Men were designed, some might say intelligently designed… with a nerve that can be stimulated to produce orgasm… anally. Why would God put a nerve in men’s butts that produces orgasm when stimulated?
Sounds like God had something dirty in mind.
Matthew 5:42 everyone!
September 26th, 2006 at 11:14 pmHey LiveFree, in 2004 this phony war was only one year old. The phony patriotism and flag-waving was still new. Now that over 2,000 soldiers have died and thousands more have lost arms and legs and thousands more can’t get benefits from the government who sent them into war, I wonder how many of them would vote for him now.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:22 pmSorry, you’re just not hot enough for a bare-butt spanking … try a bear bar.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:23 pmPLC,
Well said. You are a fine Christian, and a very fine man.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:26 pmWhatever happened to:
Love thine enemy?
Turn the other cheek?
The Meek shall inherit the earth?
Judge not lest ye be judged?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?
The holy virtues of Meekness (composure, modesty), Charity, Moderation (self-restraint) and Humility?
The deadly sins of Pride and Wrath (anger)?
There isn’t anything Christian about these angry, vindictive, intolerant blowhards. If Jesus were to appear to them today – as a homeless man or a refugee child – would they accept him and be charitable to him?
I think not.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:27 pmFound the following in Wikipedia, under “Seven Deadly Sins”.
“A list of seven sins that God hates is found in Proverbs 6:16-19:
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. (New International Version) ”
Makes you think, doesn’t it?
September 26th, 2006 at 11:38 pmZooey
Thank you – I try. I really should have been in bed an hour ago – but I could not let this thread go without my 2 cents.
Goodnight to all and remember, regardless of religious affiliation, loving should never be considered or made harmful.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:38 pmTHIS GUY IS JUST ANOTHER RAVING RIGHT WING NUT. ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHAT GEORGE BUSH HAS DONE TO MY COUNTRY AND OUR PEOPLE.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:51 pmIF HE KNOWS THE BIBLE SO WELL, HE WOULD KNOW THAT THE BIBLE CONDONES SLAVERY, SAYS IT’S OK. IF THEY ARE NOT RELATIVES OR FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY, CLEAR AS CAN BE. HOW DOES HE FEEL ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT AND PUT IT TO WORK IN THEIR LIVES?
LiveFree the powers that be should be fighting this war they so wanted and they are not.. Bush’s popularity is in the toilet… soldiers are deserting left and right and coming back with pure hatred for Bush. They found out the hard way what they were being used for and now you’d be hard pressed to find a solder who’s served in Iraq who still believes this bullcrap. But hey if one keeps blindly voting for the Hitler lites.. it is those people who have no one to blame but themselves when the shit hits the fan again and we are attacked.
Oh and I never once said I didn’t hold Osama responsible but I have every right to be upset at the president of our country who can’t even catch a man who wears flip flops.. Just truly sad
September 26th, 2006 at 11:55 pmAnd the Muslim Fascist terrorists hate America for our freedoms and liberty?
Um, run that by me again……………………
September 27th, 2006 at 12:05 amGoodnight to all and remember, regardless of religious affiliation, loving should never be considered or made harmful.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
Amen.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:10 amThis makes me LAWL so HARDxCORE. Boone is black, and hes running around practically being racist to gay people. Id like to see what would happen if someone started “Value Voting” and saying all this shit about n*ggers this and n*iggers that instead of gays.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:50 amOh brother why can’t the Repubs leave Gays alone? They are so fixated on their sex acts, so it makes me wonder if they are jealous? I bet those on here who claim to hate Gays actually lust for sex with a guy! Bush certainly does since he had a male hooker hang out at the White House with him > Bulldog Gannon!
September 27th, 2006 at 1:02 amThe Bishop has the “sissies” and faggots in his scriptured sights. Have to hand it to him he’s one tough bigot. Hope he doesn’t get “hot” and declare persecution war on Muslim gays. His head rolling down the aisle in front of his congregation might create a “chillin” effect on them, and the attendees at the Value Conference. I hate it when freedom of speech is contravened.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:22 amtill
We need to have every republican running confronted with these statements and they need to be forced to denounce them. Especially those that were at this conference. These people are no better than the taliban, not at all. They just address their hate and insecurity on fewer groups of people.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:30 amSend the so-called “Reverend” back to the cotton fields where he belongs! If it were not for white people, including gays, marching for his rights in the sixties, he and the other black bigots would still be sitting in the back of the bus. He is a disgrace as are these other loonies.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:49 amI want to tell you a story.
A few years ago, two couples were at a restaurant. The married couple were helping their newly engaged friends celebrate. During the meal, both women decided to retire to the powder room for a bit. The newly engaged woman said “Honey, watch my purse.”
A bit later, the married man realized he needed to use the restroom too. Being blind and not wanting to use his cane in a crowded restaurant, he asked his friend to guide him there.
Picking up the purse since he didn’t want to leave it unattended, the newly-engaged man said “No problem!” and proceeded to guide his friend.
Once at the restroom, they were accosted by an angry man that called them “Disgusting faggots” and “Perverts” and a host of other names. He would not leave them alone and followed them out still screaming.
Restaurant staff intervened and escorted the man who started the altercation off the premises, but not before he stated “I’ve got something for your kind in my car.”
Both couples went back to finish their meal. As they were leaving the restaurant, the combative man accosted them again, calling them the same names. Only this time he had a gun. He shot and killed the man who had been watching his fiance’s purse. (end story)
This murder was the direct result of the type of mindeset Mr. Boone portrays.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:27 amBOONE IS A DIRTY FREAK. HIS INSIDES ARE ROTTEN AND DECAYING. IF ANYONE HAS CROSSED OVER TO THE DARK SIDE OF PERVERSION IT’S BOONE. THE PERVERSION OF HATRED AND FEAR ARE EATING HIS SOUL. HOW DESPERATE DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO GO PUBLIC WITH THE HORROR YOU CARRY WITHIN
September 27th, 2006 at 2:53 amTRAINING FOR CONSERVATIVE LIARS
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Conservative right wingers are soul dead. What else can explain the lies and demented hatred they have all locked into. If there is such a thing as evil it’s in these zombee conservative liars.
September 27th, 2006 at 3:08 amDidn’t God make gays? Could he be testing faith? All the bigots do is “out” themselves as dumbasses.
Both radical Christians and radical Muslims sicken me and convince me that all organized religion is evil. Personal spirituality is fine. Just me and whatever I deem to be “god” or the “force”. But as soon as a group and their power-mad leader tries to interpret scripture for everyone – problems arise. Enemies are created. Wars must be fought. People must die. The “righteous” must prevail… blah, blah, blah…
The fact is most Christians in this country are anything but “Christian”. Christ was not pro-war or hateful. They have totally fu@&ed Christ’s message, for their own selfish purposes.
Organized religion is evil, and in 50 years (if the delusional jackasses don’t get us all killed) religion will be considered very “old school”. Personal spirituality however will grow.
I don’t need others to “tell” me about God. God can do that alone… thank you very much.
September 27th, 2006 at 3:40 amI think they burned a big pile of books when it got dark and goose stepped around saluting Mann Coulter.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:02 am“Since you’re so keen on undermining the Bible, do you perhaps have another book that strongly promotes good behavior? One that has the influence of the Bible?”
How about “The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection” by Charles Darwin
or
“Principia Mathematica” by Isaac Newton.
They promote a useful (”good”) behavior. Its called reasoning, something that seems lacking in the simple minded and ironically, rather un-Christian and un-American drivel of Daryll and bitblt and their ilk. No wonder why Mr. Conservative himself, Barry Goldwater was so disgusted with the religous fanatics.
Given all the world’s environmental problems, either the population of the world will turn away from blind faith of all kinds and quickly make use of reason or Homo sapiens can most assurredly expect to go extinct.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:15 amBishop: I want gays coming at me strong
Ah… now it all makes sense.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:15 am1933 and counting.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:46 amI am not religious. My problem with the “gay agenda” it is this: gays use the label “homophobe” to describe people who don’t swallow their agenda hook line and sinker. “Homophobic” implies that straight people who object to, say, portraying gay relationships on TV, are afraid (phobic) as opposed to just turned off. Of course the implication is ALWAYS that the “homophobe” is himself/herself gay.
I am the mother of three boys, and I don’t want gay role models in the media for my sons. Period. I don’t want my sons to have to deal with gay boy scout leaders. I don’t want my sons to deal with gay teachers.
Is this “hate” as opposed to the desire to give my sons a normal and healthy sexual identity?
September 27th, 2006 at 6:10 am“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute against you.”
September 27th, 2006 at 6:18 amCalling for gays to “hate me and fight against me” is very Luciferian.
Let’s not fall into that trap. Instead, let’s rise above it. If we can’t actually love people who incite hate and terror, we can pity them. And pray for them.
That approach may been more effective after 9/11, as well. If our loving thoughts and compassionate intentions hadn’t actually changed the terrorists, it would have, without a doubt, changed us.
Can’t you just feel the love of Christ through this guy’s words? What a deluded, hateful ass.
What an unbelievable travesty! These hate-filled, prejudiced, insanity peddlers actually believe that they speak for Jesus Christ. Even though I’m not a Christian, I know that they do not speak for Him. I only wish they knew.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:07 amHoly Guacamole! ‘Free Speech’ can be a blessing or a curse. Personally, I don’t care what anyone of a ‘religious’ bent thinks about me. They are entitled to their beliefs, but they are NOT entitled to inflict them upon me. I think it’s pretty sad that so many people are so concerned (obsessed) about what happens to them AFTER they die, that they waste the here and now, which is all we can be sure of, to an extent anyway. I cannot live my life in constant terror of offending some ‘Cosmic Muffin’ who might not choose me for the ‘Eternal DodgeBall Team’ because I ate scallops in a Beurre Rouge sauce, and LOVED it. That’s too much pressure for me. And the possibility of having to spend ETERNITY with people like Jerry Falwell and Tom DeLay sounds like HELL to me. I’m gonna pass, thank you. I would like to recommend a website that I found amusing, and now comes to mind every time I hear those ‘holier-than-thou’ types, flapping their gums about “the bible says this-or that”, like that makes it ‘official’ somehow. Maybe for them… but they pick and choose to suit themselves, and their positions. A sample: On ‘Brawling’… Deuteronomy 25:11-12
September 27th, 2006 at 7:12 am“If 2 men are fighting, and the wife of one man rescues her husband from his assailant by grabbing his testicles, you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity.” They are ‘illustrated’ with Lego’s. The site is http://www.thebricktestament.com. Then click on “The Law”, and go from there. If I was a ‘praying’ person, mine would be simply this; God, please save me from your ‘followers’.
The anti christ is Gay? Well Bush is pretty camp it makes a lot of sense.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:39 amI think that, since we are so evil, we should all gather somewhere in the deep woods of Salem MA, and organize a good gay gang bang with bonfires and witchcraft against Bush and his crowd.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:29 amSounds to me like the good Bishop went to a gay bar, didn’t get hit on and it hurt his ego. Now he is trying to punish the gay community for makin ghim feel bad. But, he won’t get his wish. The gays won’t get mad at him, they will ignore him. He is nobody. He isn’t worth their time, energy or interest. This man is a bug and there is a special place in hell for him!
September 27th, 2006 at 8:49 amSeems like he is a MAJOR “N”
September 27th, 2006 at 9:30 amFAITH-BASED anything is just that. No EVIDENCE or LOGIC need apply. No RATIONALE allowed. Why the hell people who can apply these basic principles of a thinking mind can use common sense in every aspect of their lives except for religious issues is beyond comprehension. What’s the old euphemism, “a mind is a terrible thing to waste” applies here.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:37 amDaryll, if you read your Bible the most Jesus ever created was a couple of fish sandwiches and a few glasses of wine. Jesus wasn’t even born yet back when old Adam was shagging a sheep wishing it was a Eve.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:44 amSo Boone breaks bread with George “call blacks macacas” Allen huh. Doesn’t he realize that these whores of hatred loathe blacks? As a black woman.. I find this so disgusting and disturbing for blacks supporting these bigots. I wonder if Dave Chappelle based his Clayton Bigsby black kkk member off this idiot.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:50 amDear President Bush,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s law. I have learned a great deal from you and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.
When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. If I wanted to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7, in this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there “degrees” of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging
September 27th, 2006 at 9:57 amSome day, hopefully sooner than later, our society will be as horribly ashamed of our treatment of homosexuals as we now are of our treatment of african americans prior to the civil rights movement.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:06 amI believe he’s right about the anti-christ being gay; from what I’ve seen and read about W, he probably is (in the closet!)
This is just more fear-mongering from the right. “Everybody should fear the gays, they’re evil! They’re terrorists! They’re lurking in the bushes (pun intended) waiting to devour your children!”
Now back to reality: I wouldn’t give this a**hole the satisfaction of getting worked up about him. We’ve got much bigger problems right now. Like, taking back the Constitution.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:07 amshowland
Well, yeah the former pope did call Bush the anti-Christ as I recall…
September 27th, 2006 at 10:12 amThe anti-christ is gay? I didn’t know Bush was gay. Go figure. LOL
September 27th, 2006 at 10:21 amIronchef: You are perfectly free to believe my way of loving is inspired by the devil. I’m fine with you imagining that I will be going to Hell or whatever, because I don’t believe a lick of it. It’s no different to me than if you believed I was descended from the Pleiadeans or believe my next life will be spent in Valhallah. Whatever. Just don’t try to take my civil rights away. Don’t help people disenfranchise or fire or evict or bash me.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:33 amVoiceofreason: You’re right, you’re not a homophobe. I’ve always disliked the term myself. What you are is a heterosexist and a raging bigot.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:35 amOh, an Voiceofreason: I don’t want my kids hanging around ignorant bigots like yourself. I don’t want them to be taught such profound disrespect and intolerance for peoples’ differences, just as I don’t want them taught racist attitudes or anti-semetic attitudes. Your kids won’t “catch” gay by hanging out with gay people. But they will “catch” your mean-spiritedness and prejudiced attitudes, and for that I pity them.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:42 amAll gays need to join their local Pink Pistols chapter ASAP….they’re a firearms advocacy group for gays. Learn to shoot. Be armed. When ‘they’ come for you to pull a Matthew Shepherd, the only thing that will say “NO” to their pig-eyed snarling faces will be the wrong end of a pistol. And that’s the reality.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:50 amWellington Boone needs to have a kaffeeklatch with Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist, another “Christian”.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:57 amThere is no room in this nation for hate, from anyone.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:03 amBishop Boon’s views are simply vile, stupid, loathsome and awful. Then again most of those religious fanatical wackos’ ideas at that convention fall into those categories. There is no doubt Boon wants us as progressives to get our feathers riled so he can rake in HUGE amounts of cash as the other Evangelical minions have. They have made BILLIONS on stupidity. The question is should we take his bate. No, I’m going to remain the even handed, nice, thoughtful, intelligent, serene person that I am and leave these innane, intellectually bankrupt poor excuses for humanity to reap what they sew!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:07 amThe flame has turned into a bond fire once again. The teachings of all good faiths are used as fuel. God (or whatever you wish to call Him/Her/It) and all their teachers (Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, etc.) and their teachings are being twisted once again and also used as fuel. We are destroying our planet and ourselves with fuels. I just wonder what the last person left standing will think.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:14 amMaybe it’s time we all read the poem “Desiderata.”
If you base your faith on attaining Heaven or avoiding Hell, then you have a SELFISH, outcome-based faith that is wholly unrepresentative of the HUMILITY that Christ taught. What is says is that you are believing simply to obtain a reward — not true faith, itself.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:25 amTo VoiceofReason: If you’re afraid of living in a FREE nation, then by all means, you can move to a nation like Iran where homosexuals are publicly executed. The only other option I see for you is to hide your children in a bomb shelter until the age of 21. Good luck with that!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:28 amThere are so many omissions in their rhetoric that it would be completely hilarious to engage them in a debate on the subject. The leaders of all this know well what effect their words have on the public, but those who preach “moral values” apparently don’t have enough of them to present a complete analysis of doctrine. Yet another reason why organized religion is and will continue to be the terror of humanity in the centuries to come…
September 27th, 2006 at 11:30 amAnd how highly do you think of gay people when you attribute gayness (hidden or otherwise) to these hateful,hateful people.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:43 am“Values Voter Summit” is really funny name considering they value torture, bombing innocent people, and greed.
If they hate gays so much, then why don’t they get rid of Condi, David drier, Ari, Karen Hughes, Ken Mehlman, Jeff Gannon, Karla Rove, Rlph Reed, Jerry Fatwell, Michael Bloomberg(his partner is black, so that is a double reason for the racist repugs to hate him), etc? Don’t tell me that they aren’t gay because they are married and/or have kids. Tens of thousands of gays have been married and have kids.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:48 am“I am the mother of three boys, and I don’t want gay role models in the media for my sons. Period. I don’t want my sons to have to deal with gay boy scout leaders. I don’t want my sons to deal with gay teachers.
Is this “hate†as opposed to the desire to give my sons a normal and healthy sexual identity?”
Voiceofreason, you sound anything but. I would like to second the comment that you are a heterosexist. You think you must protect your kids from the abnormal unhealthy gay agenda. Do you have any idea how bigoted what you just said is? You dont want to see gay persons on TV? Well, tough, this is America and if you dont like it, dont watch. You dont want your kids to have gay teachers? Tough, home school them.
You have no right to tell gay persons that they can’t be teachers or commentators or anyone who appears on television, who the hell do you think you are? You’d better wake up and realize that your kids WILL have to “deal” as you put it, with gay people just like everyone else at some point. I’m willing to bet you’ve encountered many gay people just in the past week and didn’t realize it. That alone should tell you how ridiculous and irrational your attitude is.
Oh and exposure to gay people does not make others gay, please let go of that nonsense. But I seriously hope that none of your kids are in fact homosexual, because with all this hatred and ignorance directed at us gays, the last thing they would need is a parent like you.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:48 amI’ll bet he had on a fabulous outfit when he said this!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:49 amp.s. Don’t you think that it’s strange that they are more obsessed with gay sex, than gay people themselves?
September 27th, 2006 at 11:49 amI used to believe in God. I was a Christian and belonged to a church, but no more. My Jesus said, “Judge not, lest ye be judged”. He said, “As ye do unto the least of these, ye do unto me”. He said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Now that old fashioned Jesus has become Hater Jesus and Bully Jesus. To the fellow who wanted to save souls, know that the hatred and intolerance those like him have shown, have caused many who were faithful to turn away, I am one.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:51 amMissing Fragments from St. Mark’s Gospel
published by: http://www.globaltown.com Feb.1998
Most people claim it would not affect their religious beliefs if historians discovered that Jesus was gay, according to a phone poll on London’s Talk Radio on Sunday 14 December. Fifty-one percent said revelations of Christ’s homosexuality would not affect their religious belief; 49 percent said it would.
The phone vote was part of a debate on the James Whale Show. which asked the question: “Was Jesus Gay?”. In the hot seat was Peter Tatchell of OutRage!.
Tatchell noted that one version of St. Mark’s gospel –which is still the subject of academic dispute– alludes to Jesus having a homosexual relationship with a youth he raised from the dead.
According to the U.S. Biblical scholar, Morton Smith, of Columbia University, a fragment of manuscript he found at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem in 1958, showed that the full text of St. Mark chapter 10 (between verses 34 and 35 in the standard version of the Bible) contains a passage which includes the following text. –
“And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God”.
Tatchell says there is scant information about Jesus’s sexuality: “We don’t know for sure whether Jesus was straight, gay, bisexual or celibate. There is certainly no evidence for the Church’s presumption that he was heterosexual. Nothing in the Bible points to him having desires or relationships with women. The possibility of a gay Christ cannot be ruled out.
“Since there is no proof of the heterosexuality of Jesus, the theological basis of Church homophobia is all the more shaky and indefensible.
“Jesus was born a man and therefore presumably had male sexual
feelings. But there are no references in the gospels to his sexuality.
Large chunks of Jesus’s life are missing from the Biblical accounts. This has fuelled speculation that the early Church sanitised the gospels, removing references to Christ’s sexuality that were not in accord with the heterosexual morality that it wanted to promote”, said Peter Tatchell.
reference this paper on the secret Gospel of Mark
September 27th, 2006 at 11:52 amLots of flames, very little light here. In my opinion, the bottom line is this: George Allen is running for re-election as Senator from Virginia. Even if I hadn’t already decided to vote for his opponent, Jim Webb, Allen’s presence at this little hate-in would have sealed the deal.
Hit them at the ballot box – that’s where they’re vulnerable.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:00 pmhonestly, i am just getting bored with people begging for headlines. blah blah blah, it’s the same old stuff. God hates gays, gays should go to hell, burn, burn, eternal fire and brimstone…
well, i’m gay. i love God. maybe, just maybe, God likes me too? i don’t know, but he certainly doesn’t love this loser.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:19 pmIf the best these people can do is focus on an issue that is not going away when thousand of US Soldiers die, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s die, when dead bodies float through the streets of New Orleans and the wounded could fill the Rose bowl, I find it not only short sited but an attempt to get “15-minutes of fame”.
One thing that statements like these convince me of is that when you get these hateful people together, their true colors come out.
God is real and so is Jesus, and these statements in no way represent what Christianity is really about. Love, tolerance and faith, not hate, spite and self-righteousness.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:24 pmVoiceofreason,
Being afraid of your sons being exposed to “gay role models” *is* fearing homosexuality.
I have four children, two boys and two girls. I am afraid of them being exposed to people who will teach them that they will burn eternally for harmless sexual acts. I am afraid of my daughters being exposed to people who teach them that they exist for male pleasure and my sons being exposed to “role models” who teach them they have the right to abuse and misuse their girlfriends or wives. I am especially afraid of my sons being exposed to role models who teach them that the way to be a man is to be violent, because such a life model could get them killed.
However, since I *am* a person of reason, unlike you, I know that my sons cannot learn to be gay by observing gay men. Male homosexuality, at least, is not a choice. (Female homosexuality hasn’t been studied enough to know for sure — but if female homosexuality has any element of choice, it seems to come from choosing to avoid men because they have abused, raped or mistreated you as a girl rather than choosing to be a lesbian because you met a cool lesbian as a child.) My sons can’t learn to be gay by watching gay men, but they can learn to be violent by watching violent men, they can learn to be cruel by watching cruel men. This is because gayness is not a personality trait, it’s as fundamental a part of the brain as your sense of your sex, male or female, itself.
Because people like you don’t want your sons exposed to gay role models, I cannot send *my* sons to Boy Scouts. I don’t want them exposed to *hateful* role models. Children can’t learn to be gay if they’re not. (Otherwise they could learn *not* to be gay, and then there would be no more gays — who would choose to love someone when that love could get them killed, unless they had no choice? And since when can any of us choose who we love?) But they can learn to hate. Hating and fearing gays enough that you are worried about exposing your sons to them *is* homophobia, exactly.
And if the problem is you’re worrying about gays molesting your sons, I hope you never let your daughters near any men, ever, including their father, uncles, grandfathers, and brothers, because far, far more men molest girls, even incestuously, than gays molest boys. Straight men are much more dangerous to girls than gay men are to boys. (As I mentioned earlier, there is some research to indicate that abuse by straight men *might* cause homosexuality in some women. Thus, letting your girls be around straight men is much more likely to cause gayness in your children than letting your boys be around gay men.)
Gay role models cannot teach a straight boy to be gay. But they can teach a gay boy not to kill himself. And while like any mother I’d prefer that my sons be straight, I would especially prefer that they be *alive.* My right to ensure that my boys survive to adulthood and beyond trumps your right to ensure that your boys don’t see anything you think is icky.
So yes, you’re a homophobe. Admit it. You fear and hate gays, otherwise why would you fear gay role models for your sons? Men are most likely gay by the time they’re five years old, though they may not know it until puberty or much later, and it’s not caused by anyone they meet or know. Gay men can’t do anything to your sons simply by your sons seeing them or looking up to them. On the other hand, bigotry and hate *can* kill gay boys, either through suicide or actual murder. So in the name of protecting your sons against a threat that doesn’t exist you’re perfectly willing to indirectly threaten the life of other people’s sons. Good going.
Your sons have somewhere between a 1 in 20 and a 1 in 50 chance of being gay just by being born male. For their sake I hope they aren’t, because god knows, having you for a mother would do irreparable harm to a gay boy.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:24 pmnull, it’s not hate, it’s truth.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:28 pmdavid, he loves you, and I do too, but he hates the sin that you have committed and currently commit. Per the bible, you can’t make it to heaven as a homosexual.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:31 pmVoiceofreason #351
Most of the comments to your #351 have been expressing what Conservative Christians call “sexual anarchy.†Comment #380 by Brian is an especially good example of this.
This is the influence that society exerts over us in the area of sexual behavior and relationship. This is society telling us, so to speak, how to behave.
If I understand Brain correctly, he’s saying that you’ll have to accept situations that you find questionable, and potentially dangerous, because the rights of homosexuals are more important that your right to train your sons in a way that’s both sexually healthy and safe. This is the essence of “sexual anarchy.†You have to give up control because someone says you do.
I applaud you for being concerned about your children.
There is one thing I want to point out. Whenever I get into a discussion about homosexuality on the INet, it almost always becomes apparent that the supporters of homosexuality want everyone to know that the whole world is tainted. The warning is this: I believe that’s part of the agenda. The homosexuals want to make sure that he whole world is tainted. There are writings on the INet by “leaders†of the homosexual movement, and they make it quite clear that their intent is to taint the entire world.
“Sexual anarchy†would include the pervasiveness of pornography, the encouragement of immodest dress and behavior, and the use of sexual allure to sell products. Being a teenage boy once was difficult enough. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be now.
I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for you in this area. Brain is probably right.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:34 pm[...] Well, actually, this didn’t quite happen. Snow, Gonzales and Allen were indeed there, but it wasn’t Allen using the N-word this time. Speaker Wellington Boone used the F-word — faggot — at the Values Voter Summit this past weekend. Many people find this just as offensive as the N-word, but why isn’t there outrage on CNN that this word was used at a GOP-sponsored event? (Hat tip: Reader RF.) [...]
September 27th, 2006 at 12:36 pm“Daryll” sucks my willie every week. The most virultent homophobe is always a self hater.
You like cock, Daryll, and you know it.
The truth will set you free!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:48 pmThe actual quote from Daniel 11:37 He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
“For the one desired by women”, is that a reference to homosexuality? If the anti-christ is not interested in the god desired by women wouldn’t that make him straight?”
Chapter 8 in Daniel has an interesting passage that sounds exactly like a description of our current president:
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. ”
No wonder people think we’re in the endtimes, they elected the Anti-Christ!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:53 pmBy Boone’s own definition, “not standing on principle”, about 95% of young teens are faggots, because they are so strongly concerned with fitting in at any cost. And a sizable percentage (30%? 60%?) of adults are, too.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:41 pmPractising Christian here:
The Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality. The so called “clobber passages” are a condemnation of same-sex cult prostitution.
3 of the 4 streams of Judaism accept gays in their congregations and make them rabbis. Even Orthodoxy is divided on whether ” homosexuality” is condemned by Leviticus or whether male-to-male anal sex (possibly in the context of rape) is what is condemned.
Many Christian churches (Methodists, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, UCC) accept gay members. They also understand that, in context, Paul was worried about new Christians in Rome and Corinth going back to their pagan ways and that the NT passages are a reflection of that.
All I can say is thank God I live in Québec Canada were this is a non-issue.
To read more about what the Bible says re: homosexuality:
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada: Study on Homosexuality and the Church
Paul, the Goddess Religions and homosexuality: a Study of Romans 1
And NO Christian follows all the laws in the Bible. Everyone picks and chooses.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:51 pmSo what’s the big deal? The guy doesn’t like sodomites. So What? I think that they’re rather disgusting and repulsive myself, what with their icky diseases and all.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:02 pm…like syphillus, herpes, gonorrhea, clap and crabs… Oh wait. Those are mostly heterosexual diseases.
Dan
September 27th, 2006 at 2:10 pmDoes the IRS have this guy’s address?
September 27th, 2006 at 2:11 pmThe sure preventative, for these diseases #399, as well as any diseases transmitted by homosexuals, is the Biblically endorsed expression of sexuality: one man one woman forever.
See #130.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:23 pmRobert, no, but Jesus has your address and number. Remember, he’s watching everything you do.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:26 pm# 351 writes
To #351 – What agenda? I’m have been gay for at least 40 years, most of the friends I have outside of work are gay, and if there is an agenda, it has never been discussed and I’m pretty sure that if there is one, I would have heard about it. The problem I have with your post is that you don’t explain whyyou object to seeing gays in the media. If it is because you don’t want your sons turning out gay, they either already are or aren’t. It isn’t a choice! There is so much empirical evidence stating such if you choose to do the research instead of being a sheep and following the hate spewers propaganda. If anyone thinks that years ago I would have chosento go through the denial, self-doubt, being bullied in my teens, etc., etc., etc. they are crazy. And as far as having a “normal and healthy sexual identity,” I have one and it feels just as normal and healthy as yours (although I might be a little presumptuous in thinking that you feel yours is normal and healthy). If so, I apologize only for my presumption.
There are good and bad gays, straights, blacks, whites, etc., and so quit lumping a group of people together. So, yes, I do think you are a homophobe, but I don’t agree with people who think that if you are, you are probably gay yourself, although it has happened. I think that people are just afraid of what they haven’t bothered to learn about or know someone who is. Ignorance is truly bliss and very encouraged by the current administration.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:45 pmdid anyone take notice that the spokesman for the president of the united states was a speaker at this affair? that is beyond scary.
September 27th, 2006 at 3:20 pmWell, I’m not surprised that neither Darryl nor bitblt has responded to any of my questions, or to my follow up post, at bitblt’s request, in which I set out my answers to those same questions.
I take that as a fairly good indication that they cannot or are unwilling to provide honest answers.
Oh, and by the way bitblt, regarding No. 391 – could you use the word “taint” a few more times …
September 27th, 2006 at 3:27 pmDave von Ebers #408
I’ll make a response to the questions in #300 when I’m ready.
I’m been a little bum-fuddled by a Catholic of 44 years who answers his own questions by saying – in essence – I don’t believe the book.
If you don’t believe it, why is worthwhile for me to answer the questions?
8. Is it possible that some portions of the Bible – say, the verses in Leviticus that call for the death penalty for gay sex – do not represent the inerrant word of God but were inserted by fallible human beings? There is no other possible explanation for Leviticus.
If you want to respond to something, why don’t you elaborate on your answer to 1. in #300?
1. Do you believe that Leviticus provides authority for the proposition that homosexuality is a sin today? No. I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin in the first place. Leviticus was wrong, then and now.
If I’m not mistaken, isn’t this answer against the teachings of the Catholic Church?
September 27th, 2006 at 3:48 pmThe bible also says not to eat shellfish.. nor shave. You conservative shellfish eating shavers better repent now to save your souls! eating shellfish is an abomination says Leviticus
September 27th, 2006 at 3:59 pmDear Wellington Boon
September 27th, 2006 at 3:59 pmTake this advice from a Gay man.
Go to Oz.
Get a :
Brain
Heart
Courage,
Then maybe you will have a little intelligence to stop making such stupid comments, have enough compassion to understand oppression and learn your wrongful religious christnazi pogrom is evil, and be courageous enough to admit you’re wrong, callous and stupid and change your ways.
Wow! In my day, we used to call people like this ‘assholes’. Nice to know nothing has changed.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:00 pmbitblt, Jesus spoke against homosexuality in the book of Genesis.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:05 pmJAG, your sexual acts are condemned (Genesis).
September 27th, 2006 at 4:07 pmBy the way did anyone hear about the death threat anthrax letter Keith Olbermann of MSNBC received at his home? Even though it turned out to be soap powder.. apparently some right wing nut wanted to pay him back for criticising Dubya. The NYPost then made a joke out of it. It’s at crooks and liars dot com. I just love how these people have no problem harming others for their agenda all in the name of god. I want a different god from these people.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:09 pmIn religion, as in the rest of life, actions speak louder than words.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:24 pm1.God raped Mary impregnating an unmarried, virgin, woman against her will. That’s why Christians value fidelity so much.
2. Jesus was born out of wedlock and is thus a bastard. That’s why Christians value marriage so much.
3. Jesus spent his adult life, unmarried, living communally with a group of men, preaching Love. That’s why Christians hate gays so much.
4. Christ “died” for his sins on the cross, but ascended into heaven to once again become an immortal god. Not much of a sacrifice, which is why Christians value hypocrisy so much.
BUILD THE WALL SEPERATING CHURCH AND STATE HIGHER.
bitblt, if you’re so concerned about my standing in the Catholic Church, why don’t you copy my answers and send them to the Vatican? Or, to make it easier, you can send them directly to Francis Cardinal George, Archbishop of the Chicago Diocese. I’ll be happy to provide you with the address. If the Church decides to excommunicate me, so be it; I’ll take my chances. At least I know what I believe in.
Here’s the thing, friend – I’m willing to ask and answer the hard questions about faith; are you?
I don’t believe God would ever have committed such atrocious, clearly immoral acts (for instance, ordering his faithful to impose the death penalty on people who engage in gay sex; or, for that matter, on apostates or all the other absurd capital crimes identified in Leviticus). I don’t believe God would have struck Onan dead for, ahem, spilling his seed on the ground. I don’t believe God would have helped one group of people slaughter another.
Given the choice between believing that God is or was a horrible, immoral, arrogant, bloodthirsty killer, or that the Bible is mistaken, I chose to believe the latter.
You, on the other hand, appear to believe that God is or was so horrible that he would violate every standard of common decency known to man – including killing people for the slightest “sins” imaginable. (Even if Christ repealed all of the old laws, your view, apparently, is that God did and said all those things set out in the Old Testament … and you’re okay with that.)
So, I’m not gonna back down. I choose to believe in a moral God; one who would not condone such barbaric behavior and who never would have engaged in it in the first instance. And you? Apparently, you believe in a book.
Though, it’s difficult to know what you believe because you flat out refuse to answer my questions.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:43 pmIf you interested enough to post #421, Alex Roberts, perhaps you’ll be interested enough to be corrected.
In religion, as in the rest of life, actions speak louder than words.
1.God raped Mary impregnating an unmarried, virgin, woman against her will. That’s why Christians value fidelity so much.
Bible record in Luke 1:38 that Mary was apprised of the plan by an angel.
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.
It appears that she agreed to do whatever God wanted.
2. Jesus was born out of wedlock and is thus a bastard. That’s why Christians value marriage so much.
The Bible records that Joseph had taken Mary to wife before the birth of Jesus.
Matthew 1
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins.”
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23″The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[d]—which means, “God with us.”
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
There are several reasons Christians value marriage. One reason is that many Christians believe marriage was created by God and is older than religion. God also created sex and gave people the “prime directive†– “Be fruitful and multiply!â€(Genesis 1:28).
Another reason is that a desirable characteristic in marriage is faithfulness. God is often described in the Bible as being faithful, and marriage is often used as a metaphor to describe the relation between God and his people.
3. Jesus spent his adult life, unmarried, living communally with a group of men, preaching Love. That’s why Christians hate gays so much.
The first sentence is more misleading that incorrect. Some of his apostles were married, and Jesus interacted with their families. Jesus had friends and attended parties – a wedding is specifically recorded. He traveled and taught. The Bible also records that Jesus took part in Jewish religious life.
I’m not aware that Christians hate homosexuals. I think on the whole that Christians pity homosexuals. They are widely perceived as troubled people.
4. Christ “died†for his sins on the cross, but ascended into heaven to once again become an immortal god. Not much of a sacrifice, which is why Christians value hypocrisy so much.
The Bible makes it clear that Christ died for everyone’s sins.
John 3
16″For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Christians do not value hypocrisy. Nor do they have a monopoly on it.
Jesus – the man – was innocent and didn’t deserve to be crucified.
If you don’t believe in John 3:16 above, you’re not going to understand most of what I say. But your lack of understanding is scant reason to mock it.
BUILD THE WALL SEPERATING CHURCH AND STATE HIGHER.
This phrase “…wall separating…†is not in the Constitution of the United States. Furthermore, there is not a suggestion that the founders expected the dominant belief to be anything but Christianity.
I like these questions on the relationship between belief and government.
Would there be a United States without the influence of Christianity?
Can the United States continue without the influence of Christianity?
September 27th, 2006 at 5:09 pmGood remarks Dave+von+Ebers in #424. I have more later.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:12 pmI am a devout Christian and I cannot see anywhere in the words of Jesus Christ that being gay is wrong at all. In fact, just the opposite. When asked the greatest of Commandments, Jesus replies, above all else, to love one another. The concept and even the term homosexual did not exist in biblical days and all references to being homosexual and gay were added in editions translated originally from Greek. (Originally in Hebrew, of course.) As always, folks will use the Bible as a weapon against others-Jesus warns of this. In past, arguments along this same line were used to oppose segregation, interracial relationships and even female independence. It all depends on the politics of the day. As a Christian I am called to listen to that ever small voice inside, and live a life that is pleasing to God. And while I have no personal connection to homosexuality as discussed here, as a Christian I strongly believe that to attack or condemn gays is completely out of God’s will and most certainly not his ‘best’ for any of us.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:23 pm“I want them mad at me?”
“We called them faggots?”
“We called them sissies?”
I’m sorry, how old is this person? Cause from the sound of it, I’m guessing he’s in about the third grade. Hey, I got news for you buddy – no “faggot” is gonna waste his time being mad at someone as juvenile as yourself. Sad, yes. Mad, no. We live in a country were everyone is free to express what he or she likes. And by all means, I would defend to the death your right to say whatever you like. (Of course, I wont be able to actually defend your right in any sort of military terms because I would rather suck off all the other boys in the army shower than kill some boy on the battlefield – as you see it.) But, like most foaming at the mouth moral Christian conservatives, I am sure you would never do the same. In fact, people like you would be more than happy if people who disagreed with you in any shape or form was completely cut out of the national dialogue…hmmm…there’s a word for someone like that…what is it…Fascist? Communist? Marxist? Dictator? Oh, I don’t know. I’m just a sissy faggot.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:35 pmThe U.S. WAS a theocracy. It was founded as such – if you count Plymouth and the Mass Bay Colony as being forerunners of the nation to be. In Boston they instituted Mosaic law but couldn’t make it work when it came to actually drafting laws. But it was for a time illegal to laugh too much, or dress too well, or be alone too much. It didn’t work then and it will NEVER work now. These people make so much noise and huff and puff so much because they know they are doomed to oblivion. They are the worst of the past barking in the dark, trying to make enough noise to frighten the rest of us before they are forever forgotten.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:15 pmDave Hale, you didn’t read the bible completely, or you’re another one of these individuals in society that refuse to accept certain biblical scripture. Read Genesis, Leviticus and II Corinthians. Don’t fool yourself. You also remember Sodom and Gamore don’t you?
September 27th, 2006 at 6:28 pmJeff, hell is a real place that consist of fire and brimstone. Think about that while you continue to have homosexual relationships. Me personally, I want to make it to heaven.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:35 pmStephen, you are exactly right. Most of the colonies were mini-theocracies to one degree or another. The framers of the Constitution were accutely aware of this and, for that reason, they inserted the provision in Article VI – even before the adoption of the First Amendment – that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Also, the “wall of separation” language came from none other than Thomas Jefferson in his letter to the Danbury Presbyterians, a letter written in response to the very question whether the anti-establishment clause of the First Amendment required government neutrality as between religious institutions. So, I’d say that’s pretty strong authority for the concept. You know Jefferson … the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence …
I’ll take Jefferson’s word for it.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:49 pmDaryll:
September 27th, 2006 at 7:14 pmPlease quote me exactly where Jesus condemns homosexuality? Galatians was a letter written by the Pharisee-trained Paul to the people of Galatia.and Jesus was not yet born (at least on earth) when Genesis was purported written. What exactly did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nothing. Not a word. Strange don’t you thiink if that was such a horrible thing as you mentioned? He mentioned everything else. And at Jesus’ parable of the Last Judgement about who enters heaven and who goes to hell where is the homosexual mentioned (Matthew 25)? If you believe that you must believe EVERY word of the Bible why aren’t you blind or lame since the Bible says that if your eyes or hands commit sin, you should pluck them out or cut your hands off (Matthew 5:29-30) ? Romans 3 say that everyone has sinned so if you say you have not sinned you are lying accorind to the Bible so are you saying the Bible should only apply to gay people and not to you? Jesus was right about you hypocrites (Matthew 23/24) using your religious self-righteousness as a way to hide your own sins focusing on other’s sins instead of your own. Disgusting!
I will say what no one else will say and I don’t care about the backlash since the name calling has already started. This is the second black man who has aligned themselves with the religious right and has attacked either Democrats or a group of people.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:45 pmDo these BLACK men think that they actually are sitting at the master’s table in the plantation? Do they think they actually have become part of the man’s family?
If so, they are so mistaken. They are being used by the establishment and they don’t realize it or they are in denial.
It is so sad for racial minorities to sell themselves out in order to be accepted as part of an elitist establishment that works against racial minority groups and other groups that don’t conform to their lilly-white, 1950s style existence. They are a disgrace to their people. And I say this as an Hispanic/Latino/Mexican-American whatever label you want to put on me. I am exceedingly disappointed in Alberto Gonzalez as well. Now there’s a coconut, if you ever saw one. I bet when he looks around the room in his cozy little office or around his dinner parties that he is the only brown one there, or maybe one of two, the other being that gay Hispanic assistant to the president — again, another member of two minority groups who sold out.
Study after study has been done to clinically prove that these people are all repressed/closeted/self-hating homosexuals who do this to cover their true natures. What the DNC needs to do is, spend a fortune on private investigators, and uncover and out every closeted homosexual who spouts this drivel for the Republican right. Notice needs to be served that if you spread this crap around, we will find you out and make sure EVERYONE knows your dirty little secret.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:19 pmSomeone mentioned near the beginning of this, “How long until we are in a theocracy? 10 years? 20?”
We’re already there, my friend. We’re already there.
And now, we’re becoming more than simply that…dictatorial thinking in the White House…we’re becoming the Fourth Reich.
Sieg Heil.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:03 pmDaryll said: Read Genesis
I have. Thoroughly. Guess what? Adam and Eve weren’t created until after everyone else was created by other Gods. Don’t believe me? Go back and read chapter 1. Even in the KJV, the phrase “them” and “us” was used when talking about God. But it was not until chapter 2 that Yahweh created his own little biosphere in Eden and his own man and woman, and just where did Cain go to take his wife?
The Bible is one book of religion. The Koran and the Talmud are others. Still other faiths have theirs.
Which one is right? Or are they all?
To quote Michael O’Hare’s character of “Commander Jeffrey Sinclair” from Season One of the series “Babylon 5″, “What makes a religion false? If any religion is right, then maybe they all have to be right. Maybe God doesn’t care how you say your prayers, just as long as you say them … What we hold sacred gives our lives meaning.”
September 27th, 2006 at 9:10 pmI’m doing what Jesus said was the position of power: I forgive my persecutors, I turn my cheek and expose their lack of connection with the Kingdom of Heaven. Bless their little weiners and souls – they know not what they do.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:57 pmYikes, yet another self-promoting JackAss Bigot in the global melting pot of JackAss Bigots. Hopefully people have Common Sense not to be riled up by such opportunists fishing for big moola $$$$$$$$.
As for “normal sexuality”: it’s whichever tendendy you are born with.
“Abnormal” is trying to be something you are NOT.
Most sane people know that pederasts, child molesters are typically heterosexuals.
I hope that “concerned mom” is keeping her kids away from their “hetero predator Dad” and other men. Child molesters are usually right in your own home.
Mom’s participate in child molestation by denying it exists in their own home, and ignoring reality when they see it. A perverted attitude about handling perversion right in front of your face.
I’d be worried that the Mom is a Pervert Enabler: she is narrow, blaming others and generally “in denial”.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:29 pm“Love one another as I have loved you.”
September 27th, 2006 at 11:40 pmHow clear it is the Christianity is just another man-made mythology…….
Peace..
“Most of the comments to your #351 have been expressing what Conservative Christians call “sexual anarchy.†Comment #380 by Brian is an especially good example of this.
This is the influence that society exerts over us in the area of sexual behavior and relationship. This is society telling us, so to speak, how to behave.
If I understand Brain correctly, he’s saying that you’ll have to accept situations that you find questionable, and potentially dangerous, because the rights of homosexuals are more important that your right to train your sons in a way that’s both sexually healthy and safe. This is the essence of “sexual anarchy.†You have to give up control because someone says you do.
I applaud you for being concerned about your children.
There is one thing I want to point out. Whenever I get into a discussion about homosexuality on the INet, it almost always becomes apparent that the supporters of homosexuality want everyone to know that the whole world is tainted. The warning is this: I believe that’s part of the agenda. The homosexuals want to make sure that he whole world is tainted. There are writings on the INet by “leaders†of the homosexual movement, and they make it quite clear that their intent is to taint the entire world.
“Sexual anarchy†would include the pervasiveness of pornography, the encouragement of immodest dress and behavior, and the use of sexual allure to sell products. Being a teenage boy once was difficult enough. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be now.
I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for you in this area. Brain is probably right.”
bitblt, you’re not getting it. And this post of yours goes a little paranoid. The mere fact that you use the word “tainted” in relation to us as people is exactly what we’re talking about here. I’m a little tired of other people, particularly heterosexuals with an anti-gay bias, presumming to speak for all gay people and throwing out BS fearmongering such as “gay agenda wants to taint the world.” This condescending hurtful speech doing nothing but putting down an entire group of people. It’s prejudice.
What Voiceofreason is saying is that apparently she thinks HER rights to raise her sons as she sees fit should supercede OUR rights to have fair access to the same jobs that heterosexuals have. Her heterosexism comes through very clear when she implies that a gay person cannot be a role model. And then has the nerve to imply that gay persons have no business being teachers. That is ugly.
If she wants to isolate her sons and herself from gay people, thats too bad, but thats her business. She doesn’t have to accept anything. I never said our rights were more important than hers. But she seems to think that this is a hetero only world, where she may tell us that we have no place in the media or as teachers or public officials. She’s wrong, and clearly advocating discrimination. She’s also wrong to think that parents can somehow “raise” their children to be heterosexual, which is what she’s implying by saying normal and healthy. You can raise your child to suppress their sexuality, but if your child is gay, no amount of denial or therapy or verbal abuse is going to change that. Basically, exposure to gay people does not make one gay, and this ignorance needs to stop.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:49 pmI don’t agree with the words used by Boone. It does not reflect Christian charity. However, I do agree that homosexuality is wrong. Nature knows what goes where and why. Animals do not have a high intellect compared to a man or woman. They use their instincts when it comes to mating. Man has a greater intellect, which can be distorted. I believe homosexuality is that of perversed thinking brought on by upbriging. Animals do not have the reasoning powers of man, therefor, they do not err when it comes to mating. This is why I believe homosexuality to be a learned behaviour. It is by definition against the laws of nature.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:17 amWow, its amazing. Gay people do stuff with mailing lists. Who knew that the gays ran a junk mail operation. In fact, I recently got a flyer in the mail asking me to join the homosexual crudade. It had flowers and rainbows and all sorts of things. Wow, those gays with their junk mail and flyers. Its crazy. I bet the gays are even responsible for all the other junk mail and credit card offers I get. I bet they don’t stop with junk mail. They probably are even into telemarketing. Was that them calling me during dinner to switch to the gay long distance carrier? Hmmmmm. These gays must be stopped. Next thing you, they will be going door to door asking straight people to join them every Sunday morning.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:35 amThe US most certainly never was a theocracy. The original 13 states all despised each other as heretics – the Catholics hated the Puritans hated the Quakers, etc etc etc. That’s why there was this whole “division of church and state” thing in the first place.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:56 amJackJames – first you say that “Nature knows what goes where and why”, then you say that animals are just going by their nature when it comes to mating, then you say that because humans have a higher intellect…what??? So, humans aren’t a part of nature? And nature knows “what goes where and why” and yet animals are going against nature when it comes to THEIR nature in mating?
I’m a little confused over your continual flip-flopping as to what is a part of nature and what is a part of humanity’s invented rules.
Oh, and let me just throw a wrench into the works…if sexuality is a “learned behavior”, then might I ask, when did you learn to be a heterosexual?
September 28th, 2006 at 9:40 amNotes on response #433 Rev James
You are correct that Romans 3 says that all have sinned.
Romans 3:
22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (NIV)
(Above quote can be found at http://www.bible.com)
These words certainly include the heterosexuals. Here I’m specifically thinking about adultery. This sin has created more pain and misery that homosexuality ever thought about – so to speak. As a reminder, this thread started about the remarks made about homosexuality. Remarks by someone put on the “national stage.â€
Jesus knew the story of Sodom and her sister cities (destruction of five cities because of homosexual activities, recorded in Genesis) and alluded to the destruction of Sodom. The destruction of this place is mentioned throughout both the Old and New Testament. Apparently the destruction of Sodom became a really good example of a really bad example, and this is the sense in which Jesus used it
Jesus also knew the story of creation and made this story the major part of his answer when asked about divorce. Specific reference is in bitblt post #130.
To my understanding when addressing this question, Jesus stated the God endorsed expression of sexuality.
This is the one-man one-woman forever relationship.
This is the ideal sexual relationship. This is the relationship that God intended. This is the relationship from which people and societies benefit. This is the relationship that God created as recorded in the book of Genesis.
The same Pharisee-trained Paul, who wrote the book of Galatians, also wrote the book or Romans. To me, it’s notable that some of the strongest words about homosexuality are in the first chapter of Romans. This seems especially poignant since much of the book is about salvation through God’s grace as shown in the scripture above.
Don’t believe we want to give up the influence of the apostle Paul since most of what we know about grace comes through his writings.
September 28th, 2006 at 10:21 amHahahahahahaha, Ann Coulter and George Allen.
That’s like the most predictable thing on the planet. All you have to do is mention prejudice and anti-gay and I can guaruntee Ann and George will be involved.
September 28th, 2006 at 1:28 pmProjected New House*: 216 Democrats 219 Republicans
Projected New Senate: 50 Democrats 50 Republicans
If these figures hold true, we are in a world of shit. We have got to get out and support our democratic candidates with money and time.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pmjackjames, homosexuality exists in animal species and continues to exist in human beings. Any number of people here, including me, can tell you from personal EXPERIENCE that it is not a learned behavior. You like so many other people of your thinking always seem to ignore the fact that most gay people are raised by heterosexual parents, and may not have even known any openly gay people. Your nuture theory has been pretty much disproved some time ago. But as it always is with people who “think homosexuality is wrong”, you’re not likely to accept this any time soon anyway.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:11 pmJesus DID comment on homosexuality!!!! Read the story of the Centurion’s beloved “boy” in Matt. 8:5 and following. The centurion entreats Jesus that his “boy” is paralized and needs healing. In the text the centurion’s “boy” in vs. 6 is often translated as servant or slave, however, there are different greek words for slave/servant that are not used here in the text….ex. “dulos”. Rather the term “pais” is used wich means…well…boy.
]One doesn’t need to dig that deep into military history to find the use of “alolecent boys” as “camp boys.” The practice was only banned by the US around WWI…the US civil war was fought with the support of these camp boys on both sides. History tells us that these boys were USUALLY used sexually as well as to wash pots and clean tents.
Jesus seems, at least in the text we have, not to even have inquired what the nature of the relationship between the man and boy was. Rather he was stopped in his tracks by the faith of the centurion who told Jesus that he need not even go to the boy, rather Jesus need only speak the word and his boy would be healed since the soldier was a man who gave orders and new that Jesus had the power and authority necessary to do the job.
Jesus turned to the assembled crowds and his desciples and announced….”Truly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.!” Matt. 8:10
If homosexuality was such a huge issue, Jesus would have condemned not only this soldier, but would have given stern warnings to all. Instead, Jesus is totally silent on the issue. However, he was extremely harsh and used the strongest terms of condemnation against those who were gossips and gluttons. How can you tell a glutton…take a look at Jarry Falwell! How can you tell a vicious gossip…..well….Dr. Dobson…that’s YOU sir! You who spews hatred and family discord and blame. Evil doers in the guise of holy men…gluttons and gossips.
So you want to use the law to condemn others…i.e. Leviticus? Read Galatians 2:21 “…for if righteous comes through the law, the Christ died needlessly.”
September 28th, 2006 at 4:35 pmThe bottom line is that no one can properly speak for Jesus. Very few texts were actually from a time when he was alive. The Gospels are hindsight and were used by people who did not know Jesus to write their own morality.
September 28th, 2006 at 9:59 pmThe other point I want to make is this: When Michael Moore or some other Liberal says something a little “iffy” we as Liberals are all lumped into one and confronted by the comments. Why isn’t anyone in the White House Press Core asking AG Gonzales or Tony Snow if he hates Faggots?
http://www.getsomejosh.com – Check me out
September 28th, 2006 at 10:00 pm#41 check out this web address:www.changeoflifemovie.com
This is a story about a bigoted preacher who reevaluates his bigoted beliefs when his lesbian daughter commits suicide. Click on “The Reality.” I was up close and personal with Fred Phelps daughter (what a wacko she is) I also took these pictures. These are vile people who do not know the first thing about being Chriatian.
September 29th, 2006 at 12:58 amI’m curious to know if this display of bigotry at the “Values Voters” summit has been mentioned on any of the news programs on television. Anyone?
September 29th, 2006 at 3:14 amGoing all the way back to Comment #131 by bitbit “You may have noted in the Old Testament book of Leviticus that there seems to be a hierarchy of evil. Something in the order idol worship, homosexuality, and child sacrifice. I’m not sure I got the order correct, and the text doesn’t say that one leads to the other. However, it seems to me that one of these types of sins leading to another in some sort of hierarchy of evil is suggested. ”
September 29th, 2006 at 5:29 amIdol worship in Genesis does not refer to ideas or people. It specifically prohibits the worshipping of solid objects. Do you know of anyone who worships a solid object? I can’t see how being gay ranks between worshipping stones and offering child sacrifices. Abortion is not child sacrifice, it’s abortion. Where did you get your information that abortion is done just to worship a god? Here, too, the bible is not referring to worshipping ideas or people but other “gods” than the Jewish god?
I’m gay. I remember that I started sorting boys into good-looking boys and not good-looking boys when I was in first grade. Having science prove that being gay is biological will never phase these “christians.” They abhor reality. Most science to them is just a capricious god planting made-up data to lead people astray.
Daryll-your Jehovah’s Witness views are an embarassment to christians. It seems from my experience that JW’s appeal to the uneducated and other people who will believe anything they hear.
Someone should sit Wellington Boone down and make him read all of the bible proofs that slavery was fine and dandy with god. The same arguments were used later to show people that segregation was god’s law. Maybe he should be shown pictures of lynching from the last century. He is just playing into the hands of racists who will do anything to forward their agenda.
Speaking of agendas, someone, a gay man, did write an article entitled “The Gay Agenda.” It starts out by saying that the whole thing was written tongue-in-cheek, but irony and humor go way over the head of fundies.
The question I ask when I hear homophobic remarks is “Who’s next? What group would be persecuted next?”
Bitblt,
I see much bickering back and forth on what the Bible says about homosexulity, listen to this quote…
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:1-5).
To me, that says we have no right to judge those who are NOT Christians… We accept and respect all of those who are not believers. We invite them to share in Christs teachings. We extend our arms for hugs to be given as Jesus would have done (re: a holy kiss). We love all mankind because of sin not in spite of it. It is sin that separates us from God, it is acceptance that brings us home. It is only when someone accepts Christ as their savior that we have the right to judge them, and they, then, have the same right to judge us, for all believers have those specks in their eye…
If that makes me just another “Crazy Christian”… then I’ll wear that badge with pride.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:45 amThere you go again, Coachjason, always trying to be the voice of reason!
Bless you, Coach.
September 29th, 2006 at 1:52 pmHow can a black American spew oppressive hatred towards another and still be satisfied with what he sees in the mirror. Do people refuse to learn from their past?
September 29th, 2006 at 1:53 pmIt is about time a minister spoke on personal beliefs with examples of why he feels that way. I have gotten use to the fake, politically driven, tuck their tail in type of ministers. A MAN of GOD is a MAN of TRUTH with no room for sugarcoat. The 5th amendment is WONDERFUL!!!!
September 29th, 2006 at 4:04 pmDogmatic Ideology of any kind is inherently divisive.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:30 pmDear Goddess how I grow weary of those who think that “religion” and “religious views” are the sole province of Christianity. “A man of God” and so forth.
To quote Steven from comment #459, “It’s about time a minister spoke on personal beliefs with examples of why he feels that way.” I am a minister. I am not, however, a Christian. I am just as religious as any other minister, it’s just that my beliefs are not in the God of Abraham.
“A MAN of GOD is a MAN of TRUTH…” I am a man, I worship Goddess, I speak Her words just as a Christian minister speaks the words of the God of Abraham. My words are just as much TRUTH as those who speak on behalf of the God of Abraham, yet just as they, such words are truth ONLY to those who believe such and are willing to follow such words.
Just because one is an ordained minister with credentials on file with whatever church does not necessarily make them any more truthful to those who do not follow that belief.
My teachings, my words, my truth is shared by many, but they are not truth to others of other faiths. Similarly, their words are not truth to those who follow my beliefs.
It is not the person, nor the religion, nor even the system of beliefs that is the truth…it is the path that one is on to REACH that truth.
To quote the words of Symmachus, a scholar who lived in the 5th century, “We gaze up at the same stars, the same universe covers us all, what does it matter, therefore, what practical system we adopt in our search for the truth? Not by one avenue only may we arrive at so tremendous a secret.”
Just because this particular pastor hates homosexuals does not make homosexuality “wrong”. In fact, in the King James VERSION (key word there) of the Bible, the condemnation of homosexual behavior is fairly recent in terms of Biblical accord, not having been included in prior VERSIONS of the Bible. If you were to consult, say, the 5th Century Latin Vulgate, there is no such condemnation except by Paul. Further, in newer VERSIONS of the Bible, the inclusion of the word “homosexual” is more than just a misnomer, considering that the term did not come into existence until the latter 18th century – early 19th century.
So, whose truth is “MORE” true? Because it is listed in a later VERSION of the Bible, or those VERSIONS that existed prior, or those teachings and writings that are NOT from the Middle-Eastern-derived religious philosophy of modern-day Christianity?
And who holds these “Men of God” accountable for their own prejudisms and personal bigotry?
Religion is about faith in the unknown and unknowable. Even Paul acceded to this when he noted the faith and righteousness of a Roman centurion during his proclamation on the steps of the Aeropagus, stating that he had not found such faith, “Not even in Israel”.
One person’s God is another’s Devil. So who is right? Who is wrong? Is the Bible right? And what of earlier VERSIONS that do not correspond with the modern texts, nor even those of James VI of Scotland, later crowned King James I of England? Is his version “more right” than earlier versions, even though certain proclamations in the KJV are not present in earlier versions?
And what of those who are “Men of God” but intermix their own hatreds and prejudisms into the mix? No one seems to support Fred Phelps yet he believes he is doing God’s work. Even members of the KKK believe they are doing God’s work. Would you support them because they are religious and voicing their opinions “with no room for sugarcoat”?
September 29th, 2006 at 10:01 pmThe Rape of the Civil Rights Movement
I am offended as a black man that gays, or what the Bible calls “sodomites,†would make a civil rights issue out of their sexual preference. This is a rape of the American Civil Rights movement.
God made me black. I cannot change the color of my skin, which to God is something good, but sodomites can change their perverse sexual behavior, which God calls an abomination.
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.â€
—Leviticus 18:22
What blacks have gone through to gain their freedom relates to their culture and race. What gays are dealing with relates to their behavioral preferences and a desire for sex.
There is no biological evidence that homosexuality is inherited. There is no identifiable gene for homosexuality. It is a sexual preference, not a permanent state. You can find examples of homosexuals who were converted and are now married to someone of the opposite sex, but no black person ever became a white person.
The drive of blacks for equality was called a “civil rights†movement, but the justification for striving to regain our rights was the fight for inalienable rights that come from God and are guaranteed by our founding documents. Some laws and practices in America were contrary to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution with its Amendments, and we sought a legal remedy.
Civil rights are those granted by man. Inalienable rights are those granted by God. When the laws of man conflict with the laws of God, I’m standing with God.
Blacks who were enslaved and killed had not broken any of the “laws of nature and of nature’s God.†They were entitled to live as free citizens, but their just rights had been taken away by unjust laws.
Sodomites are people who willfully break the laws of God and the laws of the land. The two situations are not at all equal.
Black Americans have endured significant bondage and destruction at three crucial points in history:
 Slavery
 Margaret Sanger and the creation of Planned Parenthood
 The gay and lesbian movement
Black men and women have a disproportionate number of AIDS cases, with 36 percent of those diagnosed from 2001-2004 being African-American.
Many blacks, including black ministers, are dignifying what the gays are saying instead of rejecting it outright as an abomination against God, totally contrary to Scripture and the movement.
“And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.â€â€”1 Kings 14:24
The legal term “sodomy,†which includes the illegal, perverted behavior of same-sex relationships, including oral and anal sex, comes from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 18-19.
The Bible uses these words to describe homosexuals and their behavior:
 Abomination—Leviticus 18:22; 20:13.
 Corruptible men—Romans 1:20-32
 Uncleanness—Romans 1:24
 Will not inherit the kingdom of God—1 Corinthians 6:9-14
 Lawless—1 Timothy 1:8-11
 Men who become like Sodom and Gomorrah through fornication and sexual perversion—Jude 7
If you followed same-sex marriage to its logical conclusion, it would bring an end to our society as we know it. It would mean the annihilation of the human race. Gay marriage is the opposite of the nuclear family as God created it.
If it’s all right to define marriage as a man lying with a man and a woman lying with a woman, then let there be no mixing of the sexes, because when you want to have a child, guess what you have do? You mix the seed of a man with the seed of a woman. I thought you didn’t want anything to do with the woman or the man? Don’t change your mind about what you want to do. Do it all the way. If you do it all the way there will be no children. We better wake up.
When God said in Genesis 1, “Let Us make man in our image, after our likeness,†He also said, “It is not good that man should be alone. Let Us make a helpmate for him.†The helpmate was not another man. The helpmate was a woman. God said a woman would come together with the man, not a man with the man.
September 30th, 2006 at 12:17 amLet’s just be real about this stuff right now and talk about it with the intention of actually resolving something, not just fussin’ on behalf of our particular sides!
Homosexuals — you don’t believe you have “issues”? Get outta here! You know in your innermost heart that something is wrong about what you do. Right? (I’m ONLY talking to those of you who actually have a listening ear combined with some sense of reasonability, prudence, and honesty.) Behind your burning members, I believe, is a real person with real feelings — one of which is the feeling you have to admit is one of knowing homosexuality REALLY IS wrong. C’mon, reach deep now — I’m talking to the ones that really have a sense that this is NOT how it’s supposed to be. As a matter of fact, I imagine, even as I write, a homosexual getting ready for relations with a new partner. I imagine thoughts of “is this the one that’ll give me AIDS? Why doesn’t this feel ‘all-the-way’ right? Is it possible that what those narrow-minded Christians say actually IS right? What if there is a Hell? Is it true that I will or even might go there? I just don’t know. I wish I really knew.” See, if you’ve had thoughts like these, which I believe more of you have than those that would be willing to actually admit, this shows that you have a good conscience. That’s awesome! Celebrate that!! You’ve got an innate sense of right and wrong! Isn’t that tremendous? It’s the same conscience used help you not to curse your parents out (for SOME of you), the same one used to not murder people, the same one that’s used to be faithful to a spouse! Greater than the mere fear of being caught in each of these scenarios, folks, is the power from having yielded to your good conscience.
So, “Yeah, I’ve got a pretty good conscience! Now what?” Consciences reveal that there is a certain, built-in awareness of a “standard”, let’s call it, with which our consciences identify. Well, here’s a logical question: “Is it possible that my standard isn’t the higher or even highEST standard? OK….doesn’t your boss or company layout the standards upfront when you get a job? Of course! Whether or not you PERFORM to those standards, the standards exist! You don’t even have to acknowledge them, right? However, if you perform beneath them, you’re, at some point, going to be accountable for not performing to the standards. There are always negative consequences to sub-standard performance. OK…hey…I don’t want to belittle anyone — my point is obvious, right? (Sorry.) The point is that the conscience is a built-in awareness of higher standards, obviously from something/someone higher, that are to be adhered to and maintained.
“Who are you, Mr. Writer?”, you may ask. “What do you WANT!?” Well, my story is this: I was a person filled with sexual drive and thievery. It would [now] embarrass me to tell you how many sexual partners I had over a short span of time. All-the-while, I was responding out of being hurt (cheated on) in my only serious relationship. While outwardly I felt like I was “The Man” then, inwardly I felt like I’d literally “shared myself” with more people that I initially intended to. I did yield to my good conscience about SOME things — for example, I never had alcohol, I never smoked, I never did any drugs — I never even had a cup of coffee (due to the fact that I thought caffeine was too CLOSE to being a drug)!!! However, I did have permiscuous sex, stole, lied, cheated and manipulated. So, I yielded to my conscience in some areas, and ignored it in others. As a matter of fact, I found that if I ignored my conscience enough, the less frequent it would remind me of the standard. I even went so far as to be totally desensitized to it in some areas. Is this you? Are there some of you who KNOW you have an excellent conscience that you simply ignore? How about others of you who may have HAD a good conscience, but have ignored it so much that it now seems that it no longer exists in the area of sexuality?
“So, what happened to you, Mr. Writer? How do you know now that you’re at the RIGHT place? What was YOUR ‘answer’?” I found out that there IS a higher standard, that I actually CAN keep the standard (with help), and that keeping the standard is an issue of being changed on the inside. I, (never having been a Christian, never a reader of the bible, actually being an arguer against Christianity) after being tired of living without boundaries and according to my own pleasures, decided to do something I’d never done before. I heard a man on a tape discussing the standards of God as it relates to dating, and, while I didn’t agree at first, I began to identify with what I heard. In the midst of a terrible act, my conscience awakened the “inner me” like NEVER before. I then [ME, mind you!] actually prayed, “God, IF you exist, and IF there are some other standards and reasons for living beyond that which I know to-date, I need you to let me know NOW. Further, if there’s something wrong about the way I live, communicate it in a way that only I would understand — just for me, or else I promise to continue living like I do.” (For more of my story, you’ll have to email me at ICareAboutHomosexuals AT Yahoo DOT com.)
What are you going to do? Are you going to continue trusting your own thoughts and desires as a standard of living? I mean, c’mon!!! Can you not sense the sincerity and reality in what I’ve shared? The hardest thing for me to admit was that I MAY be wrong. That was a step of humility — something I’d never really done before. I expect to get blasted by narrow-minded haters, consumed with their own passions and desires!! But, I’m wondering if there’s ANYBODY out there who can muster the strength to actually pray the prayer I prayed!! I started off a little strong in my opening statements, but I hope you hear that I care about homosexuals enough to take my time to write this (on what’s typically a sleep-in Saturday morning), telling on myself about my own life and thoughts. So, again, what are YOU going to do?
–ICareAboutHomosexuals AT Yahoo DOT com
September 30th, 2006 at 11:39 amWOW! to what “Grant” posted!!!!! What an interesting way to summarize what’s REALLY going on here! I mean, homosexuals are trying, moreso, to… HIJACK the Civil Rights Movement, not merely “raping” the movement. I think the hidden intention is to actually PROMOTE homosexuality!!
September 30th, 2006 at 1:12 pmIt is wrong for government authorities such as police officers to bash the brains in of innocent children who they suspect as being gay. Yet it happened to me and it is still being covered up. What will the gay-bashers say to God on Judgment Day? Maybe something like; We did your work, Lord, when we brutally beat the little cocksucker bloody, stripped him naked and abused and tortured him. And that compassion is an important part of police work, and that it’s something you, your fellow officers, and the people you serve all need to have.
September 30th, 2006 at 2:16 pmGrant and I Care: please keep your relgion out of my face. Put your bibles away. They have no effect on me. The bible is an ancient prescientific text written by man infallible men. I Care: you make way too many assumptions. You cannot possibly know what’s going on in my mind, or anyone else’s. Yours is another story about someone who was out of control and found Jesus. For some people that may work out. Sometimes Jesus is just a substitute for the drugs, sex, and violence someone feels guilty. The underlying problems are still there.
October 1st, 2006 at 2:11 pmGrant: Your comparison between being black and being gay is false. Just as black folk who used to try to pass as white, gay people are often forced by circumstances they face. Both cause psychological problems. In the Declaration of Indpendence the inalienable rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are universal rights that every human deserves. Where in the bible are these rights enumerated? Where in the bible is there any hint that it was the basis for our government? I always thought that the Civil Rights Movement worked for equality for all people. Now it’s just Blacks? That was not the message of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Gay people have been violently oppressed since ancient times. There are still countries where being gay is punishable by death.
The Torah was written when the Hebrews started mixing with Gentiles. They wanted to keep their own culture so they came up with Jewish Law.
It was a primitive legal system designed to take care of a primitive people.
People now can chose to follow all of the laws, follow some of the laws, or totally disregard them.
Research seems to be pointing toward the theory that being a gay male is biological, but even if a gay gene is found–the one with the rainbow flag–it will make no difference to radical right fundamentalists. They do not do science. Scientists look at a phenomenon and try to discover it’s uniqueness. Out of observation a theory comes. The theory is created. It may be a particular theory, like the behaviour of sea mammals, or it may be universal like evolution. Scientists keep working to see if the theory applies to the circumstance. If it doesn’t the theory is either modified or discarded. Biblical literalists work completely the opposite. They start with a “fact” and then try to find evidence to back it up. Any use of the evidence to change their fact is disregarded. God put the bad evidence on Earth as a test of his word. Come on, that would mean that we cannot trust anything science ever does.
Your list of things oppressing black people was amusing. Of course slavery was oppressive, but it was carried out by christians who could point to many bible passages that condoned slavery. It’s right there in the infallible word of god. Margaret Sanger has been dead for quite a while. By your logic Planned Parenthood is forcing contraceptives on unwilling sex partners or dragging pregnant black females off the streets and forcibly aborting their fetuses. What this means is black people are so weak that they cannot resist groups like Planned Parenthood. I will never know how the gay and lesbian movement is destroying the black community. We’re not sneaking in and taking your men. You cannot convert someone to being gay. The high rate of HIV in the black community comes from drug addicts sharing needles. Maybe that’s where you should focus your energy.
The fact that there are so many black families without a father/husband is also devastating black communities. Being a single mother with children is tough. If a girl drops out of high school because of a pregnancy she cuts her success of getting a good job. For some people being on welfare has become a way of life passed down from one generation to another. If young people were trained how to prevent pregnancy this problem will be cut drastically.
Your logic about the final outcome of gay marriage is ridiculous. Just because two men or two women get married, heterosexual marriages will not be affected. No one will make anyone marry a person he or she does not want to be married to. Gays comprise a small percentage of our population. We simply don’t have enough gay people to marry all the straight people who think they have to marry someone of their own sex. It’s just not going to happen. If you disapprove of gay marriage then don’t marry someone of your own sex. If you dislike gays, stay away from them. But give us the same rights that you have.
There are quotations in the bible in Isaiah and Ezekiel that talk about the sin of sodom. They say that the sin was their lack of charity. Jesus repeats this in Matthew and Luke.
Incidentally the word sodomite in the King James Version was a case of the translators imposing their cultural standards to a totally different culture. The better bible translations now use the term “male cult prostitutes” instead of sodomites. Incidentally King James was gay and without him there would be no KJV.
In Genesis the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah are described as being “very grave.” There has never been a population area that was completely gay. It just doesn’t happen. The people–men, women, and children–who came to Lot’s house were not there to invite the two angels to dinner and a movie. They were there to rape them. This was a common way of disgracing a man in the ancient Near East. Use them like a woman. And what kind of father is Lot who says, “Instead of raping the two men, why don’t you all have your way with my daugters?” If everyone in the town really was gay, Lot’s offer of his daughters would never have occured to him. And god makes no comment about Lot’s offer. If a man came into a house and wanted to rape the wife, no father would ever say take my daughter but spare my wife. That would the acme of child abuse.
The legal term “sodomy” referred to anal and oral sex between people of the opposite sexes as well as to same-sex acts. It has also been legalized in this country.
A not to steven: fundies have been getting up and spewing their hatred for years. Booth is not the first by far. Also, clergy who support gay rights also believe they are doing god’s work. And what the heck does the 5th Amendment have to do with anything?
I find it interesting how, according to the Christian belief, Levitical law was fulfilled upon the coming of the Christ and that a new covenant was formed, yet when a so-called “Christian” hates something (such as homosexuals and Pagans), Levitical law gets drudged up yet again.
Hypocrites.
October 1st, 2006 at 2:29 pmBoone statements make me proud that I am a sissy.
October 20th, 2006 at 6:29 pmbishop boone was right. God did not create men and men to be together. why do you think men and men cant have babies together. i agree completely with bishop boone. if you got somethin to say email me at ajcoll3@bellsouth.net.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:41 pmI hate Faggotts.I’m a blond,blue-eyed German.I want to execute ALL faggotts.Seb
December 1st, 2006 at 1:29 amJesus Christ is coming back soon, and you think he is happy?
NO!
He’s coming to kick ass and kick even more ass!
Now or never we have to protect our childrens from these lowlifes:
Faggots, lesbians, zoophilians, feminists, necrophilians and pedophiles!
We should destroy…no, we should BURN them!
So mock away you faggots and non believers!
You will burn in hell anyway, so who gives a f*ck what you think?!
Repent!
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:01 amI don’t want to judge anyone here, because that is not my place. It’s not my place to judge Wellington Boone, just as it is not my place to judge what people do in their daily lives.
The bible says that having a gay or lesbian relationship is not the way to go. I believe everything in the bible is written there for a reason, and I also believe that God — as a father who loves us and wants the best for us — only warns us against things for our own good. Who am I to say that someone living a gay or lesbian relationship or not a good person. All they are doing is sinning and I cannot say — as no one can — that I have not sinned. “Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone.”
Going by the fact that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”, I think we can fairly safely say that attacking someone because they sinned is unfair. In this case, both Wellington Boone and almost everyone who has commented on this article (and even the person who wrote it) are in the wrong. Sure, Wellington seems to have attacked gay and lesbian people, but doesn’t you turning around and slandering him for a mistake he made make you just as bad?
I can’t say that I agree with everything Wellington said. I also can’t say I agree with everything all of you have said. I agree with what the bible says and in what I believe in my heart. Let’s face it — we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the subject as a whole, are we?
I know I believe VERY strongly what I believe, but I know that all those who are for gay and lesbian marriages believe VERY strongly what they believe, too. What is me telling you I think it’s wrong got to do with it? Is that going to change your opinion? No. Is it going to make you repent and start going to church? No. Because you don’t believe that it’s wrong and you’re not going to. Likewise, you are never going to make me believe that it’s right.
Either way, we can’t keep judging each other for slips of the tongue or opinions we don’t agree with, or this world’s just going to get more and more torn apart by hate.
“Hate the sin, not the sinner.” I try to live by that.
January 10th, 2007 at 10:46 pmHow is this hate. If that’s his belief, shouldn’t you at least respect that. If someone doesn’t support homosexuality, it does not mean that they’re full of hatred. You guys should really look into a more intellectual basis for your arguments. You’re spewing the same hate your accusing him of, and don’t even know it.
January 25th, 2007 at 11:15 amChristers. Gotta love ‘em.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:47 amYou have it all Wrong……..
February 13th, 2007 at 12:06 pmYou have a problem with obeying God. God Say’s that a man shall not lie with man and right away you want to kill the messenger when really you have a problem with the MESSAGE.
God also says Thou salt not steal, commit adultery, fornicate, kill. Break them and you commit sin which leads to death and judgment and hell with fire and brimstone and were the worm dieth not.
The choice is yours as it is with everyone else, live this life your way for your 3 score and 10 enjoy it, but don’t act surprised when you find your name missing from the book of life and Christ says depart from me.
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February 25th, 2007 at 12:51 am