Declassified NIE Shows Cheney and Bush Misled Americans
Declassified NIE Shows Cheney and Bush Misled Americans
The National Intelligence Estimate — “the most authoritative document[] that the intelligence community produces” — was delivered to President Bush and Vice President Cheney in April 2006. It was declassified today. Here’s a key excerpt:
The Iraq conflict has become the ’cause celebre’ for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement.
President Bush, August 21 2006:
Vice President Cheney, September 10, 2006:
Transcripts:
Clip 1
BUSH: You know, I’ve heard this theory about everything was just fine until we arrived, and kind of “we’re going to stir up the hornet’s nest” theory. It just doesn’t hold water, as far as I’m concerned. The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East.
Clip 2
RUSSERT: Here’s what the American people said in a recent poll. Is the U.S. involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan creating more terrorists or eliminating terrorists? And look at that. Overwhelmingly, 54 percent, clear majority, believe we are creating more terrorists.
TEXT:
U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN
CREATING MORE TERRORISTS 54%
ELIMINATING TERRORISTS 15%
The New York Times CBS/Poll
CHENEY: I, I, I can’t buy that.
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Cheney is telling the truth according to Cheney. He can’t buy it because it wasn’t what the PNAC had planned for and so it can’t possibly be allowed in his head.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:43 pmIs it too much to ask that everyone in the Bush Cabal be held accountable for their mis-leadership?
ITMFAsses now!
September 26th, 2006 at 6:44 pmI like the “Freedom Agenda” that includes
1. Invading countries
September 26th, 2006 at 6:47 pm2. Raping and pillaging
3. Secret CIA prisons
4. Torture
5. Redifining the Geneva convension
6. Igonring Habeas corpus
Let Freedom Reign
I’m feeling a lot safer already!!!
September 26th, 2006 at 6:49 pmFirst they need to resign, and then be held accountable. Otherwise they’re plunging headlong into impeachment.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:50 pmIrrefutable evidence that this administration incapable of ever telling the truth about anything. Guillotine the bastards.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:52 pmI agree! This SOB has been misleading “We The People” for toooooo long. Make this asshole shit his bed!!!
September 26th, 2006 at 6:53 pmI agree! This SOB has been misleading “We The People” for toooooo long. Make this asshole shit his bed!!!
September 26th, 2006 at 6:53 pmJesus loves me,
What exactly is the “Geneva convension“?
Is that similar to the Geneva Conventions?
Haha.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:54 pmKids, can you say neo-con neo-fascist neo-imperial neo-colonial aggression in the 21st century? Put a fork in the Bush war crime family: they’re done… Four-and-twenty neo-cons baked in an Iraqi Quagmire Pie…
September 26th, 2006 at 6:56 pmI think Martin Luther King said, “We must stand up!”. Will “We The People” ever stand up, again?
September 26th, 2006 at 6:58 pmLife better not get toooo lazy. Or life will get really real once again.
Why even have an intelligence community if we aren’t going to use them???
If MSM doesn’t start asking this administration some serious questions on foreign policy after such an independant, authoritative report, then what do we need to do to get their attention?
September 26th, 2006 at 6:59 pmIt’s funny, Bush is telling the public that the leak was meant to confuse Americans.
No, the leak was meant to give the truth to Americans, and when you combine that with Bush’s bullshit, yes it can be confusing.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:01 pmI keep waiting for the bushbots to show up to tell us how we’re safer because terrorism is increasing and becoming more widespread.
Maybe they’ll sit this one out?
September 26th, 2006 at 7:01 pmComment like #3 is exactly why American’s know that liberals are weak on national security.
You liberal like to say “ya, we liberals are tough on national security”. but your actions say your WEAK on national security.
Liberal are traitors and that is why you keep losing elections.
The funny thing is that you don’t even know it.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:08 pmAnd then I prayed “God save the world from this Terrible Bastard’s “Freedom Agenda”!”
September 26th, 2006 at 7:09 pm“It’s funny, Bush is telling the public that the leak was meant to confuse Americans. ”
Yes! Isn’t that odd.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:10 pmThe president also said that it was interesting that the report was leaked during the mid-term election campaign. Don’t people realize that only the Neocons are allowed to play politics.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:15 pmMark Glesne
If spelling is the only fault you can find in my argument, then I’m pretty flattered.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:16 pmI will bring Dick Cheney and his Administration to their knees!
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
September 26th, 2006 at 7:18 pmever notice what happens when it’s mentioned that the trolls are missing…?
September 26th, 2006 at 7:20 pmheh…
Comment like #3 is exactly why American’s know that liberals are weak on national security.
Comment by Greg+(G-Dawg) — September 26, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
So, Greg, are you saying that it is necessary to invade militarily weak countries that haven’t attacked us, to rape, pillage, and torture their people, run secret prisons, deny constitutional rights to American citizens, and forgo the Geneva Conventions in the name of security? If so, then I will tell you two things: these actions do not foster security, and these actions do not represent American values. So that would pretty much make you a traitor to basic American values, now wouldn’t it? So shouldn’t you be moving to some place like Iran or North Korea where you can get your fill of fundamentalistism and/or fascism?
September 26th, 2006 at 7:23 pmGWB attack the wrong country… Period. Deal with it GWB. Most people knew before the NIE that you are the biggest screw up in history. GWB went to war with the wrong country and lost.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:24 pmGreg,
Your claim of “liberals” being “weak on security” is rather general, especially since you provide no factual evidence to support the claim. Please specifically show, with factual evidence, how you derived at such.
Be specific. Remember, calling someone an “idiot” without solid evidence only proves that they making the claim is an idiot.
I look forward to your detailed response.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:25 pmOf course, they did and everyone now knows it. Now what do we do about it? Other than simple “impeachment” and then trial….I should think that if Clinton was impeach for lying about a blowjob; these cons should be impeached for lying to get us into a war for the wrong reasons with the blood of not only our own troops on their hands but the blood of innocent Iraqi’s as well (war crimes, anyone?).
September 26th, 2006 at 7:28 pmDo you know what the word plural means? Do you know how to pluralize words? Did you know that the nineteenth letter in the English language is the “S”? It is used to pluralize words. You can get all the info you need in school. Probably around the third grade.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:29 pmProjection at it’s finest – Bushitco wrote the book on it! Everything they accuse others of, they are doing themselves. Believe the diametric opposite of what they say and you’ll have the actual Truth – in ALL things. Believe Nothing that comes from this administration.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:29 pmand I love that “numbnuts” expression on Dumbya’s face with his hands out to either side and that sickening twisted smirk on his face…..a good caption would be “caught me again, and in the act”…..or “I was only tryin’ to protect you”….what crapola!
September 26th, 2006 at 7:31 pmOk, so what’s the catch?
Oh, I forgot… Neocons/Zionists own the US and British media and the American populace are complete and utter morons. There doesn’t need to be a catch. These guys can just flaunt and mislead the populace with no consequences.
Nothing to see here… move one. Just another story that will amount to nothing in 3-4 days.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:35 pmWhy did terrorists waite until Republicans took over national security before they attacked? Why did Bush do nothing to prevent 9/11? Why did Bush invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11? It’s because Republicans are weak on national security. They are traitors!
September 26th, 2006 at 7:40 pmThough they like to claim the opposite, it was obvious that the Bush Cabinet was operating in the old Cold War mindset when they focussed on missile defense.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:58 pmAnd what does the “Freedom Agenda” look like here at home?
This is the model of “freedom” America presents to the world. No wonder we have to export it using our military might.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:03 pmPassenger: Hey Captain, what did you do that for?
Captain of the Titanic: Do what?
Passenger: Hit that iceberg. You steered the ship into that iceberg. Didn’t anyone tell you that was a bad idea?
Captain of the Titanic: Well that iceberg was a gathering threat out here on the ocean, we needed to act before it was too late. I have to keep all the passengers safe from gathering threats.
Passenger: Yes but ramming it at full speed, there’s a f***ing great hole in the side of the ship, that’s not going to make me any safer. Besides, I don’t think you’ve got enough lifeboats.
Captain of the Titanic: Now calm down son, you’re either with us or you are with the iceberg on this.
Passenger: Actually Captain, the iceberg has split up into lots of icebergs, looks like lots of ships are threatened by them now…
Captain of the Titanic: Don’t be naive son, this just means you need me more than ever to keep you safe.
Passenger: Are you nuts? What makes you think I’m going to sail on any boat that you captain again?
Captain of the Titanic: You don’t like my Swift Boat? Why do you hate my Swift Boat?
September 26th, 2006 at 8:04 pmI dont think Bush reads the NIE
September 26th, 2006 at 8:15 pm(which sounds about right to me)
Even in this sanitized version of the key findings, it still contradicts what the Bush administration has been saying.
One can only imagine what the full report says if this is the best face the White House can put on it.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:26 pmI think the point that we are all missing is, to 30 or 40% of Americans don’t care about facts, they just want to kill who they hate. To them it’s, we’re right and you are dead.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:31 pmPassenger: You know where all these smaller icebergs came from right? Everyone on this side of the ship says so.
Captain of the Titanic: I don’t follow polls. But just say I do for once.
Passenger: They say that these icebergs appeared after you hit the big one at full speed. What do you think of that?
Captain of the Titanic: I, I, I can’t buy that.
Passenger: So we’re holed below the waterline, there aren’t enough boats for everyone and, well I saw the movie, even Di Caprio croaks.
Captain of the Titanic: What class are you in? Oh that’s too bad. Ooh look at that!
Passenger: What?
Captain of the Titanic: There’s another iceberg over there. Ooh that’s a gathering threat if ever I saw one. All right number one – stop lowering the boats, let’s get some steam up again, we’re setting course for that iceberg over there. Can’t let that iceberg threaten us, I bet it has something to do with these other icebergs over here. We’ve got our ‘iceberg agenda’ to carry out.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:32 pmEinstein: I think the Captain’s insane.
Passenger: I agree, but why do you think so?
Einstein: Well doing the same thing and expecting a different result by ramming that other iceberg over there – that’s just barmy. Anyway, sorry again for that cosmological constant thing. Best of luck. Which way is the bar?
Passenger: Hey Captain, I just talked to an expert in the field of iceberg removal and he says you are insane to think that ramming that other iceberg will do anything to clear the shipping lanes of all these icebergs you’ve already caused.
Captain of the Titanic: You again. Didn’t you get the memo? We’re ramming the icebergs here, so we don’t have to ram them in New York harbor. A dictatorship would be a lot easier, as long as I am the dictator. Why do you give comfort and aid to the icebergs?
Passenger: Well I just happen to think that there are other approaches to clearing the shipping lanes of icebergs, besides ramming them, creating more icebergs and f***ing up our ships.
Captain of the Titanic: Come on then Einstein…
Passenger: I’m not Einstein – he’s in the bar though if you want to ask his advice.
Captain of the Titanic: …stuff him, pointy-headed intellectual.. I listen to a higher authority. Anyway you were saying….
Passenger: Well if you stopped ramming the icebergs and say created a global climate change that heated up the earth and would prevent the icebergs from forming to begin with, then everyone’s ships could sail peacfully on the oceans, iceberg free.
Captain of the Titanic: Global warming? Now you are the one who is insane. There’s no concensus either way to say that Global Warming is real, and besides my science officer, Mr Crichton, assures me that it’s all bunk and people couldn’t affect the climate besides. Trust me, it’s much better to ram the icebergs.
Passenger: Yes, I do seem to be mixing my metaphors now. Perhaps I should join Einstein in the bar and wait for the inevitable….
September 26th, 2006 at 8:55 pmIraq is Afghanistan all over again: We go into a Muslim country, make a mess of it, and it becomes a hotbed of terrorism. Osama bin Laden learned to become a terrorist at the CIA training camps in Pakistan that our government set up in the 1980s to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Twenty years later, those CIA-trained “freedom fighters” launched the 9/11 attacks … and Bush used it as an excuse to invade yet another Muslim country.
Twenty years from now, who knows what horror will be unleashed on us by terrorists who either cut their terrorist teeth in–or were inspired by–the insurgency in Iraq. The problem is that the public — with the help of the government and the media — will have forgotten about the connection, just as we’ve forgotten about the connection between our misadventures in Afghanistan and September 21, 2001.
BigCynic.com
Read “The fake morality of conservatives“
September 26th, 2006 at 9:04 pmI wonder what it will take to wake people up (although I DO think their eyes are just barely starting to open). Will the sentence: “Bush and Congress not only have made you less safe, they have made your children and grandchildren less safe” help you to fully open their eyes?
September 26th, 2006 at 9:26 pmAnd to you right-wing Christians: you aren’t stupid. You know that it’s wrong to keep sending young people to fight in this war. You know torture is wrong. Unborn babies? Come on! Your preachers are trying to distract you, hoping you won’t think for yourselves.
A few more days of this storm, and the lies from Bush, Cheney, Rice and Snow, coupled with Rummy’s troubles with the military, Bolton’s leaving the UN and we may see a melt down on national TV.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:30 pmWatch Bush in his futile effort to make his case; he is either on the sauce or worse.
Watch Rice as she lies so often she trips on them; her words are contradicted with evidence within hours.
Best case scenario: Bush blows up, and is carried off by aides. Cheney’s heart stops. Rice quits under pressure. Rummy is confined to the Alzheimer’s unit at Walter Reed.
Bolton goes off chasing the Wiley Coyote.
Democrats hire a crane to remove Hastert. Frist goes off to perform virtual surgery via video camera.
Democrats take over and we start to become America again.
This is making me sick.
By the way, Bush & Cheney did not “mislead” us — they LIED to us.
They LIED to this country. They are LIARS.
Thousands and thousands of people on earth are dead and injured because these people are LIARS.
Why is that ok with the 32%? Or the trolls? Why?
September 26th, 2006 at 9:40 pmBush read the NIE report?? The only thing we’ve ever seen him read is “My Pet Goat”….ahahahaha ahahahaha….baaaaaaaa!
September 26th, 2006 at 9:45 pmand Zooey – yes, they are liars – that’s the cold hard fact. And the lies are mounting up day by day, as we americans are now learning with many more to yet be unveiled. All I can say is that Clinton was impeached for lying about what he did as two consenting adults; this man has lied and thousands of people have died. Not one lie…but now we are discovering one lie atop another, and another, and another. That’s why they say that “lying never works” because the compounding of lie upon lie eventually catches up with you. It’s clear that when Bush is asked questions “off the cuff”, he’s dumbstruct because at this point he cannot remember which lie he’s said to whom. EACH OF THESE LIES ARE IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES. If Clinton was impeached for one lie, where’s the justice here?
September 26th, 2006 at 9:49 pmand 32% who condone lying are either paid trolls (doing it for the money) or corrupt GOP’ers (doing it for the money)…same difference!
September 26th, 2006 at 9:50 pmRep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, called on the White House to release a second, previously unknown national intelligence document that focuses solely on Iraq. Harman says the document has been kept in draft form so that it won’t be seen before midterm elections.
“I hear it paints a grim picture. And because it does, I am told it is being held until after the November elections. If this estimate is finished, it should not be stamped ‘draft’ and hidden from the American people until after the elections,” Harman said in a statement.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:54 pmand “misleading” is just the GOP’s synonym for outright “lying”!
September 26th, 2006 at 10:20 pmNO I think the terrorist made us less safe. Remember that we were attacked many times before; look at the list at this site http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/terrorism/101/timeline.html
September 26th, 2006 at 10:29 pmThe real truth is terrorism has been on the rise since the wide spread use of the internet (1985 +) and the globalization of our news network (CNN and other satellite news agencies). Unfortunately our government didn’t act proactively in response to these previous attacks (for what ever reason) and we were seen as weak or as an easy target. I remember on the playground that the weak were always picked on by the bullies until they were put in there place by some one acting in the communities (playgrounds) best interest, bullies never quit when ignored.
Remember we should use this blog for real discussion not just pointless ranting.
Good post’s Marie and all, this entire mess and the reich’s responses remind me of flushing the toilet, note how all the water swirrls as it goes down. That’s what’s happening with this administration….
One interesting thing President Clinton said,” while traveling around the country he noticed how quiet most people were”. Said he was glad cause it showed they were thinking… Yep! all of us are thinking how good we had it and how bad it is now……And what we need to do to fix it.
All the trolls keep saying we don’t have a plan, Ha, the hell I don’t I’m working to get this bunch of lieing basterds out of our government and bet there are lot’s of other people just like me. First get them out and then fix our country…Blessings all…Peace.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:36 pmThe MSM is coming around and building steam to make up for time lost ,have you all seen Keith Olberman on CNBC ? A refreshing breath of Honesty and gutsy performance that may be emulated by CNN and ABC . Competition may force them to come out of the woodworks .
September 26th, 2006 at 10:39 pmRemember we should use this blog for real discussion not just pointless ranting.
Comment by piper — September 26, 2006 @ 10:29 pm
I smell a Bush-loving troll.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:44 pmI have to suppress a chuckle as I quote the key clause in the NIE for purpose of the Times’ foray into asymmetric Election ‘06 propaganda warfare:
The Iraq conflict has become the cause celebre for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.
In retrospect I am so glad that the Times suppressed the second sentence in this finding and thus assumed poll-position in the race to go down as the Official Laughinstock of the ‘06 Election. Here’s more:
If democratic reform efforts in Muslim majority nations progress over the next five years, political participation probably would drive a wedge between intransigent extremists and groups willing to use the political process to achieve their local objectives.
So, in essence the NIE judges that the Democrats’ proposal to leave Iraq’s democracy to its own devices would eliminate the major opportunities it sees for diminishing the jihadi movement. Nice.
In short, the NIE vindicates what President Bush has been saying all along –We must prevail in Iraq to defeat the terrorists.
Bush is proven correct again. Thanks for calling for the NIE to be released, TP. It vindicates the president.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:47 pm#46 Zooey
By the way, Bush & Cheney did not “mislead†us — they LIED to us.
I think I have had enough too! It’s time to call them what they are.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:48 pmClinton showed everyone that we have to strike back. We are right; they are not.
#53. Do you really think that terrorists attack the U.S. because they think the U.S. is “weak?” Do you think suicide bombers would stop attacking if they thought there was going to be some kind of retribution by a “strong” U.S.? I don’t see how the image of a “strong” or “weak” U.S. has anything to do with it. If anything, the “stronger” the U.S. appears, the more likely the U.S. will seem a threat to be attacked. The reasoning you use is very strange.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:48 pmDow Closes at Second Highest Level Ever.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:53 pmLow inflation.
Less than 5% of America out of work.
Ooooohhhh how bad it is now……And what we need to do to fix it.
Please, Dad always said if it aint broke dont fix it … IT AINT BROKE AND YOU AINT THE ONES TO FIX IT.
#57. The parts you bolded in your post seem highly speculative, especially after seeing Hamas and Hezbollah being supported democratically by their respective countries. Notice the words “we judge” and “probably would drive” – speculation.
Notice this statement –
“The Iraq conflict has become the cause celebre for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement.”
- is not presented in the same speculative way.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:55 pmUS troop presence keeps neighbors from invading Iraq: Talabani
Sep 26 7:12 PM US/Eastern
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said that the US military presence in Iraq keeps neighbors from invading his country.
“The American presence has always prevented any kind of foreign invasion to Iraq,” Talabani said.
Need I say more?
September 26th, 2006 at 10:56 pmSharon, You’re right. At this point, we don’t need to detail a plan. A broad picture is sufficient. We are not in charge. The ones who are in charge are the ones who should have supplied a plan long ago – they didn’t – and they still don’t have one. Staying the course, or adapting to win are not plans — they’re slogans.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:58 pmBut then again, that’s what Bush, the former cheerleader, is good at – slogans.
When Dems regain a foothold in the congress, there will be discussions and investigations. There won’t be time to waste — much will have to get done, quickly. But before a train can reverse course, it has to stop.
#62
September 26th, 2006 at 11:00 pmNo.
Bush is proven correct again. Thanks for calling for the NIE to be released, TP. It vindicates the president.
Comment by Exley — September 26, 2006 @ 10:47 pm
The desperation of this Exley person to defend Bush and avoid admitting that he is wrong appears to have induced a state of chronic delusion.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:01 pm#60. You are obviously not a working person trying to ensure your family has health insurance. If you were, you would know that wages are clearly not keeping up with even a low inflation rate when things like health insurance and gas prices are thrown in. And the low unemployment rate is misleading, mainly because so many of the new jobs created since Bush have been low-paying crap service jobs (with the exception of the construction industry).
September 26th, 2006 at 11:01 pmCrawl out from under the rock Juizzee. That’s not how the world works. Would you pick a fight with a strong UNITED adversary or a weak divided one? You moonbat liberals need to support the efforts to show a strong united front to these fanatics. You and your weak minded friends help embolden the enemy.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:02 pm#46
No, Zooey…”Thousands and thousands of people on earth are dead,” killed on 9/11 because a group of radical Islamic fundamentalists were allowed to plot and plan and carry out their plans, unchallenged by the U.S. government for approximately a decase…Thankfully, we now have an administration that is willing to challenge these and confront these Islamist savages on their own turf before they can kill thousands of Americans in NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, L.A., etc.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:02 pm#58, Marie…”Clinton showed everyone that we have to strike back.”
If only Clinton had “struck back” against Al Qaeda after it attacked U.S. interests throughout the 1990s. Alas, he did nothing.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:05 pm#62. If any neighboring country invaded Iraq, they would be immediately annilated by the U.S. and Nato whether the U.S. troops are there or not (except Israel or Pakistan since they have a nuclear deterrent). No country would do that. Plus, how worse could it get with an invading foreign force – maybe some other country would do a better job than the U.S. at keeping the peace there – God knows the U.S. can’t do it.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:06 pmHey “bloggers”. Why not forget about what your unprincipled and self-serving politicians might do to save you and actually consider doing something to save yourselves and the country while you are at it?
Oct. 5th seems like as good a day as any, no?
Hell begins the day that God grants you the vision to see all that you could have done, should have done, and would have done, but did not do. -GOETHE
.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:08 pmNeed I say more?
Comment by piper — September 26, 2006 @ 10:56 pm
No, piper, you don’t need to say more. What you need to do is lay off the crack pipe. The 5% unemployment rate is a well-documented fraud. Bush took the country from surpluses to huge deficits (it is surprising the economy isn’t doing better given the massive stimulus of this irresponsible deficit spending). Health care costs are exploding and the quality of care is in a free fall (we now spend more than double what the so-called European welfare states spend, with quantifiably worse outcomes). Much of the world hates America now (no doubt you never leave the comfort of home and haven’t a clue about how badly our image has suffered even among our staunchest allies). The Middle East has been badly destabilized by the war in Iraq, as judged by a nearly unanimous consensus of security experts, including the summary judgement of the 16 U.S. intelligence agencies that contributed to the NIE. I could go on with the destruction wreaked by the Bush administration, but with you I know it is pointless. So take your Karl Rove talking points somewhere else.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:10 pmExley,
September 26th, 2006 at 11:13 pmYou are wrong most of the time; you twist facts to make your mistaken points.
You believe the lying bastard who lives in the White House instead of nearly everyone else who has knowledge of what happened when Clinton was in office.
You and piper can go off somewhere and whisper sweet lies to one another.
You moonbat liberals need to support the efforts to show a strong united front to these fanatics. You and your weak minded friends help embolden the enemy.
Comment by piper — September 26, 2006 @ 11:02 pm
Can we equate “fanatics” and “enemy” with anyone who criticizes your master Bush? You sound like a real jackbooted brown shirt.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:14 pm#67. But I thought they would attack us no matter what because they hate our freedom. Weak, strong, whatever — they hate us because women vote here, remember?
— come on man. It seems that we are perceived as the enemy because we are quite a “strong” nation interfering with (or dominating) a very poor Middle East with a different culture than the U.S.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:16 pmJuizzee, #66
September 26th, 2006 at 11:16 pmTrolls and Republiscum do not understand the average working person. They are generally smug and self-centered.
I won’t go into discussing health insurance here, but let me say that I am entirely sympathetic – I am there too.
Mr. Piper,
A little econimic up-tick is just enough to distract you from all the crap that is hitting the fan.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:16 pmPiper,
You need to ask for some better talking points at tomorrow’s RNC/Karl Rove/Fox News strategy meeting, because the crap you’re pushing here is going nowhere.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:22 pmExley
September 26th, 2006 at 11:27 pmIt’s like beating your head against a wall. These liberals with there rose colored glasses and cool-aid can’t see the forest for the trees. And they want to be in charge of my destiny. Not on my watch.
# 74 Keep in mind the report just came out, and although the trolls gave themselves a few minutes to see what they’re talking points would be, they were tossed back on their heals a bit.
One troll thinks America was weak in 2001, and one troll thinks nothing was done in a decade to to fight terrorism.
This report has driven them over the edge.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:28 pmRemember we should use this blog for real discussion not just pointless ranting.
Comment by piper
Let me guess, piper, pointless ranting is anything you haven’t spewed yourself. Get lost.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:29 pm;)
September 26th, 2006 at 11:29 pmAnd they want to be in charge of my destiny. Not on my watch.
Comment by piper — September 26, 2006 @ 11:27 pm
Huh? Not on “your watch”? Are you Karl Rove?
September 26th, 2006 at 11:29 pm#72, Marie…”Exley,You are wrong most of the time…”
Well, Marie, at least you acknowledge I am right SOME of the time, I’ll take that for now!
G’night, everybody!!!!
September 26th, 2006 at 11:30 pm# 78 “Not on my watch. ”
After 911, Iraq and the Katrina response, let’s hope you clowns have no more watches.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:30 pmYo, Piper and Exley….
Are you really defending the war in Iraq?
Can you guys do math?
Bush and his bloodthirsty administration have caused the deaths of more innocent civilians than Al Qaeda, if fact more than 20 times more!
You know who the real global terrorist is… you voted for him, twice, right?
If you two think we can defeat terrorism through military means, you are stone cold fools.
It won’t be long if people like yourselves continue the agression toward the rest of the world, that we will find the world united against us, and then what… who’s kids will you pathetic ghouls send to die for your stupid mistakes? Mine? Think again…
You and your ilke have been “outed” for the foolish war-lovers you are.
Intelligent people now know that war is the most fu##ed up thing humans are capable of. You are dinosaurs….
I am a vet, and I now want to stand in front of recruiting offices to tell well-meaning kids “DO NOT LET THE REPUBLICANS THIRST FOR BLOOD GET YOU KILLED…. THEY ARE NOT WORTH IT.”
September 26th, 2006 at 11:30 pm#78. Lucky we have you to clear everything up. Your arguments are so convincing! … I am praying that your “watch” is never anything more important than supermarket security.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:37 pmYou can be in charge of your own destiny – in another country (or planet) where you can fulfill your role as storm trooper in an army of social miscreants.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:37 pmSee, you guys are hell bent on recreating the Roman Empire with your leader, a Nero wannabe. Not on my watch.
#15
Comment like #3 is exactly why American’s know that liberals are weak on national security.
You liberal like to say “ya, we liberals are tough on national securityâ€. but your actions say your WEAK on national security.
Liberal are traitors and that is why you keep losing elections.
The funny thing is that you don’t even know it.
And your hero, Bush, by his inaction after being warned about bin Laden planning to crash planes into buildings would be your idea of tough on national security? Completely ignoring the threat of terrorism until after it happens is tough, not like those wimpy liberals who tried to warn Bush about bin Laden.
Hey, Greg. Did you notice that all of your ‘tough guy’ Republicans in the White House are chickenhawks? Yeah, they didn’t want to serve their country when they had the chance. I’m sure the military just wasn’t tough enough for those badasses.
And if losing elections is the sign of a traitor (brilliant, Greg) that would mean Republicans were traitors in the 90s for losing two presidential elections, they were traitors for 20 straight years while Roosevelt and Truman served (both of whom were responsible for the U.S. winning the last world war), and Republicans will be traitors again in November when they get their asses handed to them. Or, more likely, thrown at them.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:40 pm#83. Ya, you better leave now — by the way, your posts tonight have made you look incredibly silly, so thank you for discrediting the right.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:40 pmYo, Piper and Exley….
Are you really defending the war in Iraq?
Comment by Darryl — September 26, 2006 @ 11:30 pm
Yes, and Piper also seems to be defending everything else Bush does.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:41 pmSo America is not worth fighting for . Ok Now who is weak. I’m sorry; you people make me sick. Should we just put flowers in the barrels of the terrorists guns and hope for the best? I can’t take much more of this you people have drug me down into your slime.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:42 pmHow about we take the fight to the wingnuts? I have had it with the “opposition” party. They are obviously worthless. Anyone else prepared for some action?
September 26th, 2006 at 11:42 pmThankfully, we now have an administration that is willing to challenge these and confront these Islamist savages on their own turf before they can kill thousands of Americans in NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, L.A., etc.
Comment by Exley
Pardon my plain english, Exley — F*ck You.
I have run out of patience, and I am no longer in the mood for your moronic ranting. Yes, I called you a name, so you’ll stop reading now. God damnit, there are worse things!
This administration took an outline to try and deal with the al Qeada problem, and used it to line bird cages. This president ignored a PDB saying flat out that bin Laden had a plan to attack. He just never could imagine that something like that could happen, and thousands of peopel died that day, because he let it happen.
Osama bin Laden killed thousands of people, not just Americans. George W. Bush, the true savage, has killed and maimed more people than Osama bin Laden dreamed possible, and he’s torn this country apart so completely that it is no longer recognizable, and we will be lucky to recover from it in our lifetimes.
So there you go, Exley. You’re not afraid right now, but you should be. You think you’re safe in your bed, but you’re not. But the danger does not come from without, it comes from within. Open your eyes, Exley, for once, open them and see what has happened to this country, and don’t you dare blame those of us who have absolutely no power in this government right now.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:43 pmHay Marie and RealScientist, check out #78…..Look’s like the short straw new troll think’s bull shit bush has died and made (it) president, or god……Geees where do the reich wing nut job’s recrute these people, arian nation’s rally maybe.?…..Keep the light’s on so they will scurry back under the sink’s….Blessings
September 26th, 2006 at 11:43 pmhankfully, we now have an administration that is willing to challenge these and confront these Islamist savages on their own turf before they can kill thousands of Americans in NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, L.A., etc.
Comment by Exley
So now its a ‘crusade’ not against terrorism but against Islam itself? Your as batcrap crazy as Bush is. And you will only create more and more and more. Your kind of logic Exley is what has created genocide, murderous religious crusades,bloody inquisitions, deadly wars possible by being as batcrap crazy as 4% of the Muslims that do engage in terror. If you were in Iraq right Now Exley they would call you a mad mullah islamofascist savage.
EXley is like a little brown shirted “Hitler-chrisitian” on a very old and insane crusade.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:44 pmExley will never stop lying, just like MA, it’s pointless to talk to the
September 26th, 2006 at 11:47 pm‘Mad American Mullahs’ and the Flaming Republican ‘Crusaders’ from Freeperville
#91. What the hell are you talking about?
September 26th, 2006 at 11:48 pm#91 So, which is it Piper, was America weak on 911 (which is the only way your previous nonsense makes sense) or was it strong?
Try to be consistent.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:50 pmWay to go Marie…
Since this thread is about Bush’s dishonesty, didn’t we all see the bulge on his back during the debates? All evidence says it was a wireless earphone transmitter… they sell for less than a grand. Who remotely coached the fool?
Remember when Bush was asked about cocaine use and he said: “I’m not gonna play the gotcha game”…. huh? What happened to Yes or No?
Remember when he said when asked if Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 and he said “No…”
Now he attempts to connect the two in every speech with a very strange technique… just talk about one, and quickly jump to the other… the average human mind will eventually connect the two….. and voila… Iraq has a connection to 9/11.
Ask yourselves… are you constantly watching to see if this administration is attempting the old “Jedi mind trick”. Be alert… they’re tricky.
Recent example… Bush was talking about how some consider the war in Iraq “stirring the hornets nest”….. then he suddenly says “…the terrorist attacked us on 9/11″. The average American dumbass will eventually come to think the Iraq war is justified on the grounds that is is part of the war againts the terrorist.
We hab better get our public school system funded and fixed, or this criminal president will not be the last….
Oh, and the Republican-owned electronic voting machines have got to go. We know what they are up to…
September 26th, 2006 at 11:52 pmYeah, it’s really bad here – so you probably want to find a better place.
I have paraphrased Groucho Marx for you — any place that would accept you isn’t anywhere you want to be. ‘Bye
September 26th, 2006 at 11:55 pmSo America is not worth fighting for . Ok Now who is weak. I’m sorry; you people make me sick. Should we just put flowers in the barrels of the terrorists guns and hope for the best? I can’t take much more of this you people have drug me down into your slime.
Comment by piper — September 26, 2006 @ 11:42 pm
Piper, who the hell here ever said America isn’t worth fighting for? Who said anything even remotely like that? Right: no one. So shut up, liar.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:55 pmI don’t think bush has cut off any ones head like the crazy Muslims have. It’s funny how you people are so quick to compare Bush to the Regime of Hitler. Pay attention, the people we are fighting are the new oppressors and murders not bush.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:56 pm#85…Darryl, “Yo, Piper and Exley…Are you really defending the war in Iraq?”
Well, Darryl, I can’t speak for Piper. But as for me, to answer your question: ABSOLUTELY!
September 26th, 2006 at 11:57 pmBravo!, Zooey………I send Blessings and more good weather tomorrow…..What a Lady….We need you in the white house, not kidding…Peace…….Wish TP would fix this slow posting thing, make’s me crazy.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:57 pm#95. Quite interesting. My neighbor’s (Jewish) family fled Spain way back then and settled in Muslim Turkey (or I guess Ottoman Empire back then).
September 26th, 2006 at 11:58 pmI don’t think bush has cut off any ones head like the crazy Muslims have. It’s funny how you people are so quick to compare Bush to the Regime of Hitler. Pay attention, the people we are fighting are the new oppressors and murders not bush.
Comment by piper — September 26, 2006 @ 11:56 pm
Yeah, Bush just has people tortured. So it is slightly less bad than cutting off their heads. So it is okay. Keep lowering the bar for your guy, piper. Just keep repeating to yourself “Bush isn’t quite as bad as Saddam. Bush isn’t quite as bad as Saddam. Bush is good! Bush is good!”
Pathetic and scary.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:00 am#103. I thought you were done for today…. NOW GO TO BED! If you are defending the Iraq war, you must be at least a little sleepy.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:01 am#95 – AION, You must be under the mistaken that the Crusades occurred (select one):
September 27th, 2006 at 12:01 amA.) Last week
B.) During the last decade
C.) During the Last Century
Otherwise, how DO you explain the stupidity revealed in your attack on Exley?? You might be surprised to know Christianity has evolved since that time. Catching up to the modern world is an impossibility to radical Islamists who are irretrievably stuck in the Dark Ages…..But our enemies appreciate your support….
#97 I was answering #85 keep up.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:02 amThe US was weak leading up to 911 because of Clintons lack of action in the face of terror. Send a couple of cruise missiles and call it a day while cutting the defense budget.
8 months in not enough time to correct 8 years of neglect. Oh and what political persuasion was the woman that implemented the division between the FBI and the CIA?
I see a D beside her name. Or is that an L
#102 Well, as long as bush isn’t as bad as Hitler…
September 27th, 2006 at 12:03 amhttp://rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2FIraq%2FStory%2F0%2C%2C1881071%2C00.html
Army chief tells Bush: there’s not enough money for Iraq war
Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington and Richard Norton-Taylor
Tuesday September 26, 2006
George Bush suffered a serious rebuke of his wartime leadership yesterday when his army chief said he did not have enough money to fight the war in Iraq.
Six weeks before midterm elections in which the war is a crucial issue, the protest from the army head, General Peter Schoomaker, exposes concerns within the US military about the strain of the war on Iraq, and growing tensions between uniformed personnel and the Pentagon chief, Donald Rumsfeld.
Yeh that makes me feel much more secure, how about y’all??
Yup between the NIE, and the rest of the lies, Star wars Crap that cost billions and doesn’t work,the failure in Afghanistan, Opium production increases, ignoring the PDB, the 20 tunnels found under the southern border since 9/11, losing 8 billion in Iraq, the war profiteering,Chalabi, PNAC and the Weakly Standard liars Neo-cons…the Republicans apprarently spend more time being lobbied in fancy hotels executive jets and payoffs. They are as WEAK on Nat’l security as Bush is
GOPigs are Weak on National Security
September 27th, 2006 at 12:03 amHi Sharon,
I’ve had a tough day, and these threads are making me sick, and these idiots are making it worse. I’m all out of patience. Still got that flag flying upside down? We need it more than ever.
Thanks for the nice words, and lovely weather.
Goodnight.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:04 amFACT: You are very likely to die from heart disease, cancer or stroke.
FACT: Americans are more likely to die from a lightning bolt than a terrorist. FACT: Americans are more likely to die from a fall in the tub than a terrorist.
WHY THEN, is the news media not talking about these “important deadly issues”…. ???
BECAUSE, There are Exleys and Pipers out there to manipulate into falling into the fool’s trap…. ignorance of the facts.
The Repugnant party depends on the fear and ignorance.
NOW, will Exley or Piper challenge my facts… no… they can’t.
They wish to live in fear, and want us to join them…. sorry boys…
The numbers say… the “terrorists” are really sucky as killers, but really great at playing mind games on the weak minded.
BUT… they need the American media and the Republicans to sell the fear for them…
GREAT JOB REPUBLICANS…. THANKS FOR HELPING THE TERRORISTS SCARE AMERICAN FOOLS!!!!
Watch out for the lightning…
September 27th, 2006 at 12:06 am“Yo, Piper and Exley…Are you really defending the war in Iraq?â€
Well, Darryl, I can’t speak for Piper. But as for me, to answer your question: ABSOLUTELY!
Comment by Exley
Exley,
If you are under the age of 42, get your ass down to the recruiter’s office.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:07 am#110 – unamerican what does your post mean?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:08 amYes and the odds of winning the lottery are way up there too but people win every day. I don’t want to win the terrorist lottery in my home town.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:11 am#93, Zooey….Calm yourself….
While you write that Clinton “just never could imagine that something like that could happen, and thousands of peopel [sic] died that day, because he let it happen,” I think it is grossly unfair of you to blame Bill Clinton for the horror of 9/11.
Yes, you and I both agree that Clinton could have and should have done more against Al Qaeda after its attacks against U.S. interests in the 1990s and that his timidity and lack of will emboldened Osama Bin Laden to the point that Bin Laden believed he could carry out the 9/11 attacks and kill thousand of Americans with impunity.
But I do NOT agree with you that Clinton bears responsibility for 9/11. The responsibility for 9/11 lay squarely with the Islamist (NOTE: Aion, you may want to look up the definition of “Islamist,” okay, skippy?) terrorists of Al Qaeda who carried out the attack.
But I am immensely grateful (as should (and I suspect, are) you) that unlike the Clinton admininstration, we now have a president who realizes that we need to go after Al Qaeda with all the military, intelligence, law enforcement, and financial capabilities at our disposal
We all know that if 9/11 had happened on Clinton’s or (God forbid) Gore’s watch, the U.S response would have been little more than a one-time firing of some cruise missiles into Afghanistan, followed by….well…nothing.
We all agree that such a Clintonian response to 9/11 would have been insufficient and ineffective and encouraged Bin Laden to strike the U.S again….And that, Zooey, is why you, me, and the American people are so fortunate that today the great George W. Bush is President of the United States.
I am glad I can allay your concerns, Zooey. Good night.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:11 amWow I see the Bush lover trolls yesterday went nuts on the TP threads > lol. Desperation is making them crazy, because the Bush Regime is starting to come apart at the seams, and all their putrid lying crap is spilling out all over the floor for all to see! Keep up the pressure on Bush untill his head explodes!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:11 am#97 I was answering #85 keep up.
The US was weak leading up to 911 because of Clintons lack of action in the face of terror. Send a couple of cruise missiles and call it a day while cutting the defense budget.
8 months in not enough time to correct 8 years of neglect. Oh and what political persuasion was the woman that implemented the division between the FBI and the CIA?
I see a D beside her name. Or is that an L
Comment by piper — September 27, 2006 @ 12:02 am
Every statement here is a misrepresentation or outright lie. But that is your MO, piper. You are a GOP foot soldier, lying for the team, lying for the victory.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:12 am#114, Well, Zooey, I know you are under the age of 42 and you claim to support the U.S. military action in Afghanistan following 9/11…So, I assume you have signed up for military duty…Correct?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:13 amNOW, will Exley or Piper challenge my facts… no… they can’t.
They wish to live in fear, and want us to join them
Comment by Darryl — September 27, 2006 @ 12:06 am
Well, I think at heart these guys are a couple of bedwetters.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:13 amAION #111
Thanks for bringing up the “Star Wars” defense “system”, which is designed of course to bring great profit to war profiteers at the expense of the taxpayers. Oh…. and won’t do poop to stop a terrorist attack. But who cares… we are talking about big money for Republican weasels to steal (legally) from our country.
How about stopping people from walking right across our borders….
September 27th, 2006 at 12:14 amHow about inspecting cargo containers with the National Guard… Oh, that’s right, Bush sent them to Iraq, a country that has done nothing to us.
Exley, we all know you love Big Brother.
So, you see, I know how the Fascist sycophants think, and the beliefs they hold dear. But the greater question I pose, and it may have been said by others: Was bin Laden that great a fool, to attack America when the PNAC had control of the government? Or was bin Laden perhaps the greatest traitor ever to the Muslim people, in that his attacks may have been calculated to bring about the very response that did occur? If so, was he acting in concert with the PNAC to provide the very “Pearl Harbor” they were so hoping for? If not, what was his motive in seeing Iraq destroyed?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:19 am“The Iraq conflict has become the ’cause celebre’ for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement.” – NIE report
********Dear Progs, WHAT was the specific cause jihadists point to as the root of their “deep resentment”….BEFORE IRAQ??? Before the US Embassy bombings in Africa?? Before the attack on the USS Cole??? Before the first WTC bombing??? Before the nightclub bombing in Bali??? Before blowing up a nightclub in Germany?? Before Somalia??? Before attacks in Saudi Arabia?? Before Lockerbie and a slew of other hijackings and murders in the 1970’s, 1980’s, 1990’s, since the turn of the century?? Before Munich??
I am thankful enough people recognize the “reaction” mode of the prog movement in relation to terror as opposed to pro-active approach. In case you missed it, the radicals in the “religion of Peace” declared war on the West….
But you kind-hearted and tolerant Progs are certainly free to keep aiding and abetting our enemy – they appreciate your help!!! America has always withstood the traitors in our midst…..
September 27th, 2006 at 12:20 amDO you explain the stupidity revealed in your attack on Exley?? You might be surprised to know Christianity has evolved since that time
Yeh Right, Exley has created in his mind an ethnic crusae against the Islamic Savages , thats stupid Osama was quite intellligent and was a Saudi pretty high up on the Social ladder in fact, Exley sounds like one of them Gary North, Rushdoonie, Tim Mcevigh Wackos.
You guys seem to think History began the King James version of the Bible. And to tell the truth you really haven’t changed that much such as with Bush and torture…
Yeh you’ve learned from history…NOT.
My attack was dead on and you know it. BTW I am a Christian if it helps alleviate some of your angst.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:20 amBack at ya Zooey, flag’s still flying, nothing new there but getting lot’s of thumb’s up and cheers from people when I take the old truck out…People all over are thanking me for being bold and putting the stickers all over my tail gate…Many ask where to get them and people just walk up and pat me on the back and say good job….The latest one is doing a lot…”Just doing my part to piss off the relegious right”…….Still the…”labotamies for republican’s / it’s the law’…..get’s high mark’s…..Blessings all…out for the night…Have to take the truck to town again tomorrow…Wahooooo.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:21 am#115 Don’t pretend you don’t know what it means.
If you don’t, just think about it while you parrot the bush propanda.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:22 am#113, Darryl writes the “terrorists†are really sucky as killers…”
Tell that to the families of the nearly 3,000 people killed on 9/11 and the nearly 3,000 U.S. military personnel killed by terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Oh, wait a minute…That’s right. Darryl is a liberal. American lives mean nothing to him.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:23 amZooey, Zooey, Zooey….
Don’t you know that just because someone is for the war doesn’t mean they want to actually “fight” that war…. that’s for some poor kid to do.
The Exleys and Pipers are just like their puppet-masters – chickenhawks!
They want all the brown people dead, they just don’t really want to get dirty doin’ the killin’.
I think the Republican-owned media has really diserved the public. What they need to do is keep showing the pictures of bloody Iraqi mothers holding what’s left of their kids… and force the war-lovers to see what they have done. but it won’t happen here… the rest of the world sees it though.
(Not so) Funny that the country that caused the horror has the least interest in actually seeing th results…. cause it ain’t pretty, and would cause guilt… we can’t have that.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:23 amAs long as Bush doesn’t behead anyone, he’s A-OK. Is that it? Torture in secret prisons is fine, right? There’s a lot of good information to be derived from twisting someone into an unnatural position, or making him believe you are drowning him.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:25 amI guess it’s all a matter of degree. Or how low you will stoop. Or how little morality you possess, or humanity for that matter.
Militants like Bush and his followers just can’t get it through their thick heads that better intelligence is obtained in more humane ways.
Some of the best intel has come from prisoners treated very well in captivity where they became more relaxed and talkative. A tortured prisoner will say anything to stop the torture.
I don’t want people like Bush representing my country – he is no better than the enemy. In fact, he may be worse because he is dishonest about what he does and why. People who believe he is correct are equally pathological.
#119 cutting the defense budget is not a lie its proven fact. But I know you will blame the right wing media for misrepresenting the Clintons military build up as cuts. Step away from the punch bowl.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:26 amDarryl, what if the “Star Wars” defense system isn’t about stopping missles at all? Do you recall the earlier articles about the Microwave weapon the general suggested be tried out on American civilian populations?
It doesn’t take too great an imagination to understand the implication of such a weapon based in space. And what would be the difference between causing people intense pain and cooking them to a crisp? Only the power setting. Only the power setting.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:26 amI am glad I can allay your concerns, Zooey. Good night.
Comment by Exley
You are patronizing, and it’s quite unattractive.
Well, Zooey, I know you are under the age of 42 and you claim to support the U.S. military action in Afghanistan following 9/11…So, I assume you have signed up for military duty…Correct?
Comment by Exley
You know that, do you? You’re very confident in that knowledge, aren’t you? The things you are wrong about, in addition to this, are legion, Exley.
I am 46 years old.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:27 am#109, Piper….Well said. And factually unassailable…Well done. The liberals are reeling, Piper. First Clinton came unglued on national TV, much to the laughter of the country, and now the meltdown has spilled over to here. Amusing to see. I haven’t enjoyed myself this much since Election Night 2004, when George W. Bush was re-elected president with the largest number of popular votes in U.S. history.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:29 amComment by Exley — September 27, 2006 @ 12:23 am
Bush a Republican has killed more than Saddam
But certainly still less than the 250,000 Kurds that were gassed
when Rummy was shaking Saddams hand when they smiled at each other over the profits the Aqaba pipeline would be bringing them..
People dying, pfffftt they said! Lets have a little photo-op instead, Besides Mrs Bush says we shouldn.t worry our beautiful minds over body bags, it’ just not worth it!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:30 amReally Zooey? You’re 46? Okay…My mistake. I thought I remember you saying you were 40. Well, unlike so many here, I am willing to admit when I make a mistake. Despite the belief of many posters here, I am not perfect.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:31 amAnd what would be the difference between causing people intense pain and cooking them to a crisp? Only the power setting. Only the power setting.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Oy, I’m outta here. I’ve stayed too long as it is…
September 27th, 2006 at 12:31 am#119 cutting the defense budget is not a lie its proven fact. But I know you will blame the right wing media for misrepresenting the Clintons military build up as cuts. Step away from the punch bowl.
Comment by piper — September 27, 2006 @ 12:26 am
Well, idiot, a Republican majority in Congress approved much of the cutting, and Dick Cheney was a big advocate of these cuts.
You didn’t mention any of your other lies, so I take that to mean you are stipulating to having lied.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:33 amHow magnanimous of Exley to say that Clinton isn’t totally to blame for 9/11, but shares the blame with the terrorists.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:33 amWhat about the moron-in-chief who told the CIA agent who made a special trip to emphasize the urgency of the intel – “OK, you’ve covered your ass; you can leave now.” What about the Nero of the White House who couldn’t be bothered to leave his vacation spot to do some real presidential work following the 8/6 PDB? What about the ignoramus who was gifted with the presidency, and ignored all the information given to him by the previous administration? You absolve him of all guilt — for crissake! 9/11 happened on his watch, where he had been perched for 8 months doing nothing!!!
Has anyone actually read the declassified doc? It basically supports the Bush agenda. It says that, yes the Iraq conflict is increasing the problem, but if we stay the course and fight them there, we wont have to fight them here. I’m not saying I agree with this or Duhbya’s agenda, but this report is just another part of election year misinformation. Ignore and move on.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:35 amIf President Bush lied, did all of these DEMOCRATS lie also??? For once, I don’t think so.
“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.†— From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998
“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.†— From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others
“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities†— From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002
“Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.†— Madeline Albright, 1998
“(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998
“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.†— Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002
“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.†— Robert Byrd, October 2002
“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.†— Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002
“What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad’s regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs.†— Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002
“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.†— Bill Clinton in 1998
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.†— Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002
“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.†— Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003
“Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people.†— Tom Daschle in 1998
“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal.†— John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002
“The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.†— John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002
“I share the administration’s goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction.†— Dick Gephardt in September of 2002
“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.†— Al Gore, 2002
“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.†— Bob Graham, December 2002
“Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction.†— Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002
“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.†— Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002
“There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.†— Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002
“I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.†— John F. Kerry, Oct 2002
“The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation.†— John Kerry, October 9, 2002
“(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. …And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War.†— John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003
“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.†— Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002
“Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States.†— Joe Lieberman, August, 2002
“Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 – 1994, despite Iraq’s denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq’s claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction.†— Patty Murray, October 9, 2002
“As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.†— Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998
“Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production.†— Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998
“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources — something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.†— John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002
“Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East.†— John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002
“Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts.†— Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002
So. Now we know who the *real* liars are. Well, some of us have known all along, but some are prone to believe thier lies.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:35 am# 125 Yeah, if you’re not supporting bush and lies, you’re obviously supporting the terrorists.
Another nonsense packed post by a troll.
How’s that ‘pro-active’ response working out for you? Got any Intelligence assessments that will tell us how great it’s been going?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:36 amWell, Zooey, I know you are under the age of 42 and you claim to support the U.S. military action in Afghanistan following 9/11…So, I assume you have signed up for military duty…Correct?
Comment by Exley
You don’t even wanna go there kiddo.
Exley, please if your gonna act like a bush hitler youth go down to free republic.com they love to talk about blowinp up people and how Jesus will come because Bush is killing Muslsims and how good they feel when they see people getting killed so the messiah will come.
That’s really more your type, wacko end times world. FreeRepublic.com just copy this and paste it into your browser and waaa laaa, you can speak to wacko crusaders and fomenting armageddon and the messiah will come, kill kill kill
Please however remind your new friends from freeper land to sign up for war because you know you gotta go kill some I’slamofascists savages’ before you can start slaughtering the Jewish to make Armageddon come true!!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:38 am#125….Oh, Mighty Aphrodite, don’t be silly! Haven’t you been reading ThinkProgress? Haven’t you been listening to Howard Dean, John Kerry and the Clintons???? There WAS no Islamist (again AION, check the dictionary) terrorism against Americans before Dubya became president!
The US Embassy bombings in Africa; the attack on the USS Cole; the first WTC bombing; the Khobar Tower attacks in Saudi Arabia — All figments of our collective imagination! Didn’t you know that, Mighty Aphrodite?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:38 amYes barking dogs and piles of nude men is real torture. Tell that to the reporter that had his head cut off while begging for his life. These extremist Moslems are real nice trustworthy people. Remember the don’t care if you are liberal or conservative or who your president is.
High Five to Exley. Having a great time!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:39 am#124 BnF
September 27th, 2006 at 12:41 amExcellent argument, as usual. :)
Whoa there Exley…
“Tell that to the families of the nearly 3,000 people killed on 9/11 and the nearly 3,000 U.S. military personnel killed by terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Your president Bush knew the terrorist had a plan to “possibly” use planes as missles… yet failed to tell the public… that means HE is responsible for 9/11 AND for the deaths of American soldiers he sent to Iraq (Afghanistan was absolutely justified)….AND for the tens of thousands of innocent civilians. Yes, Al Qaeda is responsible and should be destroyed… not Iraqi babies. Hell, you don’t care… they’re brown, they’re poor, they’re foreign and by golly that’s good enough… right? Be honest now.
By the way… accusing a Liberal of not caring about people is like saying Republicans don’t care about money… now that’s just stupid… right?
You can do better! C’mon…
To clarify… NO innocent human being is more valuable than any other, white black, American, muslim, poor, rich, etc… got it?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:43 am“I don’t want people like Bush representing my country – he is no better than the enemy. In fact, he may be worse because he is dishonest about what he does and why.” – Muslim Marie
*******I always knew you would be the last person who should ever be trusted to guard someones back – unless they are radical Muslims. Dr. Zawahiri sends his blessings from Allah, his profuse praise for recognizing the true enemy to be GWB and a ton of camel dung to your door. Do not be offended by the dung – it is EXCELLENT fertilizer for an accomplice Zawahiri is assuming is a tired, left over “flower child”.
Good night….
September 27th, 2006 at 12:44 am#144, pxlmvr …How DARE you bring FACTS and actual quotes into this discussion???!!!! Apologize to all the liberals here! You know they can’t stand facts!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:44 am#109, Piper….Well said. And factually unassailable…Well done. The liberals are reeling, Piper. First Clinton came unglued on national TV, much to the laughter of the country, and now the meltdown has spilled over to here.
Comment by Exley — September 27, 2006 @ 12:29 am
This is just delusional. And as for “factually unassailable”, the lie that Jamie Gorelick built some kind of wall between the FBI and CIA has been totally debunked. It is a lie repeated over and over by Karl “Goebbels” Rove, and now by piper, and now by exley.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:44 amYes barking dogs and piles of nude men is real torture. Tell that to the reporter that had his head cut off while begging for his life.
Comment by piper — September 27, 2006 @ 12:39 am
Slick how you try to minimize what has actually happened. Haven’t there been over 40 homicides of prisoners in custody in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you get off on that, piper?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:47 amMikey, I don’t think that well-worn theory is realistic – nor is it in the NIE report.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:47 ampxlmvr #144 Excelent post
September 27th, 2006 at 12:47 ammighty+aphrodite #146 good come back
Good night kids
#144, what does that have to do with 9/11?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:48 am#145 – “How’s that ‘pro-active’ response working out for you? Got any Intelligence assessments that will tell us how great it’s been going?”
Comment by AnAmerican
*******Dear NOTaa, So far – so good… I guess you missed the memo – NO news is GOOD news…..The last attack on us was, merciful God, …when???? Keep up the GREAT work NSA, CIA, FBI, and the every single observant American police and border officer and civilian who loves this country…..
Good night….
September 27th, 2006 at 12:49 amOh my god these people are so whacked. #156 Remember to say it’s a vast right wing conspiracy.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:53 am#153….Darryl …”Afghanistan was absolutely justified…. Yes, Al Qaeda is responsible and should be destroyed…”
Let’s end the night on that note of agreement.
Good night all.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:54 amLOL I see that Karl Rove has sent every troll he can find onto this thread this morning! It is way past bedtime for MA to be in here! What about your law practice MA? How can you hang in here all night, and win the court case tomorrow, or just admit you cut hair at a DC salon?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:54 amPXLMVR… thank you for proving that many Democrats were for going into Iraq, and in fact supported Bush’s actions.
But wait… I thought Dems were cowards who love the terrorists? Oops!
I believe the facts are that the Democrats you listed had based their decisions on the cherry-picked information that the administration gave them. You know… all the stuff that would lead one to go to war, but none of the evidence that Iraq was NOT a threat. Oops again… see, it goes back to the fraudulent criminal clowns in this “administration” playing games with information…again… oops
September 27th, 2006 at 12:55 am“Send a couple of cruise missiles and call it a day while cutting the defense budget.”
Wasn’t it Piper who told that lie?
I’d hate for a troll to go check the date of the cruise missles and then notice the defense budget was getting an increase.
But what the hell, a troll lying? Not that important in the great scheme of things.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:56 ampxlmvr #144 Excelent post
Comment by piper — September 27, 2006 @ 12:47 am
Piper, you are seriously confused. Post #144 essentially claims that Bush isn’t any worse than the Democrats quoted there (except that those Democrats for the most part had to take Bush’s word on the intelligence). But don’t you hate liberals? Aren’t Democrats traitors? So Bush is no worse than a bunch of traitors that you hate? What kind of benchmark is that? Similar to saying that Bush isn’t as bad as Hitler?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:56 amTHANKS Exley!!!!! Let me get this right – according to Progs, GWB is the root of ALL evil??? Who knew he could manufacture ALL those ‘faux” attacks on U.S. and Western installations – and we would be so gullible as to:
a.) remember them
b.) learn from our mistake of giving our enemy a “pass”.
Your argument rally gets to the heart of the matter – George W. Bush must not be the dundering dolt portrayed and belittled by the Left. He MUST REALLY be an incredible evil genius….Thanks again, Exley!
Pxlmvr – - MANY thanks for taking the time to find all the quotes I remember hearing and could not take the time to find!!!!
Good night to you BOTH….
September 27th, 2006 at 12:58 am# 161 So, all you have is more nonsense?
September 27th, 2006 at 1:00 amMighty hermaphrodite would make a admirable androgenous brown-shirted stormtrooper/terrorist. Just thinking of the power and authority is making he/she giddy. In fact, gathering people off the streets, at the point of a rifle, and then pretending to electrocute them, beating them into unconsciousness, sitting on them until they are smothered to death, or drowning them is exhilarating, perhaps even orgasmic.
The worse it looks for Bush, the more desperate are the trolls to defend him.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:00 amOh my god these people are so whacked. #156 Remember to say it’s a vast right wing conspiracy.
Comment by piper — September 27, 2006 @ 12:53 am
Let me get this straight: I am “whacked”, but you are the one who has to put words in my mouth since you can’t argue your own beliefs, or refute mine? I didn’t say anything about “vast right wing conspiracy”. I did say that you lie, and that Karl Rove lies, all of which has been documented.
Every time I slap the trolls around for building straw men and telling lies, they start putting words in my mouth.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:02 amUh TP, how could forget the rest of your “key excerpt”? Oh I know, you’ve been picking cherries again.
Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.
The NIE findings do not support the liberal regressive policy of “defeat and retreat” and the terrorists will leave us alone.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:04 am#167
September 27th, 2006 at 1:06 amCherry picked??? What about the ones from 1998????
# 171 So you do like Hitler. I knew with all the phrases you guys throw in (brown shirts, storm trupers Bla Bla Bla) you were hitler lovers I better watch my back. you guys are sneaky.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:07 amDarryl,
September 27th, 2006 at 1:08 amthe trolls are indeed schizophrenic aren’t they? They use the same points to make two different arguments.
Democrats love terrorists – Democrats wanted to kill terrorists just like Bush.
Democrats are weak but as BnF pointed out, the terrorists waited until we had a tough Republiscum in office before they attacked.
Democrats actually believed Bush when he lied to them — how silly of them, they should have known he was pathological.
The trolls just can’t decide how to argue — poor souls — they really need help.
Bush lied?
Gee, what a concept!
September 27th, 2006 at 1:09 am#178 Are you still defending bush getting us into Iraq, or is this your way of ignoring the NIE and the current state of worldwide increasing terrorism?
September 27th, 2006 at 1:11 amThis is just delusional. And as for “factually unassailableâ€, the lie that Jamie Gorelick built some kind of wall between the FBI and CIA has been totally debunked. It is a lie repeated over and over by Karl “Goebbels†Rove, and now by piper, and now by exley.
Comment by RealScientist — September 27, 2006 @ 12:44 am
These are your words and yes they are a LIE the division was there.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:13 amThe FBI and the CIA COULD NOT SHARE INFO. Keep telling yourself these lies and you will … Oh its too late you already beleve them. Sorry.
#167
Cherry picked??? What about the ones from 1998????
Comment by pxlmvr — September 27, 2006 @ 1:06 am
Those quotes were not advocating an ill-advised and illegal war. Clinton was pursuing a containment strategy, which obviously was effective given the complete absence of WMDs in Iraq.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:16 amThese are your words and yes they are a LIE the division was there.
The FBI and the CIA COULD NOT SHARE INFO. Keep telling yourself these lies and you will … Oh its too late you already beleve them. Sorry.
Comment by piper — September 27, 2006 @ 1:13 am
I notice you say “the division was there”. Not quite the same as blaming it specifically on Gorelick, is it? Just another lying Republican carefully parsing his words.
Like I said, you should beg your handlers for some better talking points at tomorrow’s troll strategy meeting.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:19 amno matter what they say,
September 27th, 2006 at 1:27 ami evolve anyway
# 93.Zooey: Well said !
September 27th, 2006 at 1:50 amSomebody should sit Boy George down and show him Walt Disney’s Fantasia, the bit about the Sorcerer’s Apprentice, where Mickey Mouse, unable to stop the broom he has enchanted into doing his job of carrying water, chops it up into a thousand pieces with an ax, only to find that each piece is equally enchanted and sprouts arms and legs and starts carrying water until the entire workshop is completely inundated. Maybe then George will begin to get the picture, though admittedly, it’s a stretch.
Seriously, though, there is nothing wrong with the information contained in this report – everything is going according to plan. What Bush-Co wants is, as they have said, “the Long Warâ€, a replacement for the Cold War, so that they can go on funneling the wealth of the American People into their War & Security Industry pockets. More terrorists? Great! Buy stock in Blackwater! Haliburton just went up. Everything is tickety-boo!
These guys aren’t as stupid as the front man.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:15 amI have read all 180 post and have to say that this 30 % plus who support this president are either making a lot of money off this war or they have to be the stupidiest people I’ve ever met.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:27 amMarie #181
Yes, these lunatics can be absolutely maddening at times. Sometimes I think they are just playing mind games with us.
Remember the line from Star Wars: “These aren’t the droids you’re looking for”… They are attempting what Bush does… the old Jedi Mind trick. Too bad it just makes them look silly, and can be a little disturbing to progressives.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:30 amBut didn’t the Democrats support the invasion of Iraq?
We should be creating worldwide happiness instead maintaining the war mentality. See: http://www.worldwidehappiness.org
September 27th, 2006 at 2:45 amLook at the transcript from the first video clip at the top of this page. Watch the clip carefully, now read the transcript:
BUSH: You know, I’ve heard this theory about everything was just fine until we arrived, and kind of “we’re going to stir up the hornet’s nest†theory. It just doesn’t hold water, as far as I’m concerned. The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East.
A: He sure as hell did stir up a hornets nest.
B: Look it’s the old Jedi Mind Trick…. talk about Iraq, then BOOM jump to 9/11. See, they are connected… see, they are connected…. see, they are connected… these aren’t the droids you’re looking for… see they are connected……..
C: WHAT FREEDOM AGENDA? No one told me… in fact, weren’t we told he would not “nation build”? Didn’t he say he was a uniter not a divider? Huh?
What? Wait, he did unite and strengthen Al Qaeda.
And if Iraq is any example of what the “Freedom Agenda” looks like, we are screwed.
But wait… I see freedom… a mother free from having to worry about her dead kids… children free from their dead parents. Families free from the burdens of home ownership living in the streets. People free from the excesses of fat and cholesterol, or calories. Cities free from the dangers of electricity, and running water. Thousands dead and free from having to live out their lives. Freedom… ain’t it purdy?
September 27th, 2006 at 2:54 amDear Friends,
I am writing to ask you to take just a few minutes to write or call
Your senator about something extremely important.
Over the next two days, the Senate will consider legislation that dramatically expands the government’s power to detain non-citizens indefinitely. It has gotten very little of its own attention (as you can see even from the blurb below), because it is packaged with a bunch of other anti-immigrant legislation. But the bill is frightening.
Over the past two terms of the Bush Administration we have been apathetic witnesses to the draconian immigration detention system, and have seen the injustice and human misery that it produces first-hand. I have seen families torn apart, and people who have suffered years of persecution imprisoned indefinitely, often without a lawyer to help them fight their case, just because they are not citizens.
This bill would dramatically expand that system by giving the Department of Homeland Security and the Attorney General authority to indefinitely detain most immigrants facing deportation charges. It would authorize this even if the immigrant has a strong claim for refugee status, is from a country that will not accept him or her back, or has a U.S. citizen spouse or children. The law would largely erase the effect of many good court decisions that have limited the government’s power to detain non-citizens (including, for those who are interested, Zadvydas, Nadarajah, and Hamdan, among others).
The vote will be close, because it involves a variety of complicated procedural maneuvers, not just a straight party-line vote. (As with other recent immigration legislation, the Republican majority is attempting to pass the bill as a rider to other legislation, because it would fail if they tried to pass it through the normal legislative process due to popular support for comprehensive immigration reform.)
I ask you to take just a few minutes to call or write your Senator and express your opposition to the legislation. The bill is H.R. 6094, grossly mis-named the “Community Protection Act of 2006″.
You can find contact information for any Senator at:
http://www.theorator.com/senate.html
PS — The legislation passed the House last week.
House of Representatives Passes Anti-Immigrant Legislation
Urge the Senate to Stop These Harmful Bills from Becoming Law
CALLS NEEDED TODAY
What happened in the House of Representatives?
The anti-immigrant onslaught began in the House of Representatives last week, when it began introducing and passing an array of controversial bills within very short times.
Following are a few of the bills that have been passed by the House in
The last two weeks:
* H.R. 6061, the “Secure Fence Act of 2006″ – Introduced on
Wednesday,
September 13. Passed the House of Representatives on Thursday,
September 14.
Scheduled for a vote in the Senate tomorrow.
* H.R. 6095, the “Immigration Law Enforcement Act of 2006″ -
Originally
introduced as H.R. 6089, 6090, and 6091 on Friday, September 15. H.R. 6095 encourages state and local law enforcement to investigate, identify, apprehend, arrest, detain or transfer to federal custody immigrants who they suspect of violating immigration laws. This provision has the potential to increase racially profiling of individuals “who don’t look American.” Gives the Administration’s Department of Homeland Security the unchecked power to deport people without their day in court.
* H.R. 6094, the “Community Protection Act of 2006″: Expands the
Administration’s ability to detain people indefinitely. This comes
after the Supreme Court ruled that they are required to eliminate this practice. Allows the Administration’s Attorney General to simply “designate” people as gang members without a trial, without giving them their day in court.
What can you do?
Harmful and draconian policies will become law unless our voices are
heard in Congress. Please act now.
1. Contact your Senators.
2. Contact as many of the Senators and Representatives in key
appropriation
committees as you can. They are as follows:
Senator Phone Number
Judd Gregg (NH) 202-224-3324
Thad Cochran (MS) 202-224-5054
Ted Stevens (AK) 202-224-3004
Arlen Specter (PA) 202-224-4254
Pete Domenici (NM) 202-224-6621
Richard Shelby (AL) 202-224-5744
Larry Craig (ID) 202-224-2752
Robert Bennett (UT) 202-224-5444
Wayne Allard (CO) 202-224-5941
Robert C. Byrd (WV) 202-224-3954
Daniel Inouye (HI) 202-224-3934
Patrick Leahy (VT) 202-224-4242
Barbara Mikulski (MD) 202-224-4654
Herb Kohl (WI) 202-224-5653
Patty Murray (WA) 202-224-2621
Harry Reid (NV) 202-224-3542
Dianne Feinstein (CA) 202-224-3841
Kit Bond (MO) 202-224-5721
Mitch McConnell (KY) 202-224-2541
Kay Bailey Hutchison (TX) 202-224-5922
Conrad Burns (MT) 202-224-2644
Tom Harkin (IA) 202-224-3254
Byron Dorgan (ND) 202-224-2551
Richard Durbin (IL) 202-224-2152
John Warner (VA) 202-224-2023
Carl Levin (MI) 202-224-6221
Tell them:
To oppose attaching any of the anti-immigrant bills from the House to
September 27th, 2006 at 3:37 amanother
bill, such as appropriations bills or the fence bill.
It’s not a lie if you believe what you say. That has been the basis behind every public statement of Bush and his helpers. The press is not just supporting the thief-in-chief while he gets the country into a useless war, the press has failed the public for 6 years now and they’re still not asking any relevant questions like: 1. “If the majority of hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, what the hell are we doing in Afghanistan and Iraq?!” 2. “If violence only generates more violence, why are we fighting terrorism by throwing gas on the fire?!” 3. “Why are you spreading democracy when it’s clear you didn’t even let the vote of your own people count in 2000?!” 4. “Why are you staying the course when all signs point out that you are clearly taking the wrong path in this war you’ve made yourself?!” 5. “Why does your administration keep breaking the national and international laws that they later on try to change to what they need and want them to be?”
September 27th, 2006 at 3:45 amWoW….
September 27th, 2006 at 3:50 am
the olbermann playlist on youtube! a must see
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1D14E64E0701DB37
September 27th, 2006 at 4:18 am210 – Christian is something I would not use to describe the patho-wingnut fundamentalist who have crawled from the sewers of the American religious community only to find the light of day because of the neo-fascist in the political and media communities who have crawled from the same sewer.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:34 amOkay, I will give Bush credit where credit is due here: This time he didn’t edit the hell out of it so as to make himself look better. Whether this is because he just didn’t get it, or because he actually for once felt the truth should out, I don’t know, but this document shows in more then one place that the “Liberal” media was actually reporting it fairly straight.
My personal favourite bit of it:
September 27th, 2006 at 5:35 am
Bush is totally full of shit
The Terrorists actacked us before we went into the middle east
sorry but Iraq had nothing what so ever to do with 911
You Know I feel sorry for the decent honest Americans listening to such spin shit ……. we have that problem with blair too
spin spin spin spin till you feel sick and feel like banging your head against a brick wall
September 27th, 2006 at 6:50 amThis document release goes to prove what 65% of us know. The frickin’ document says what it says, Bush says it doesn’t. When we read it we read what it says, when BushCo reads it they lie and spin it at best to say what they want and at worst to say it’s all a lie (best/worst for them). When you or I face a problem we want info to “solve” it, when BushCo faces a problem, they have NO interest in “solving” it, just spinning the story so they can blame the problem on someone else and telling their constituency they “solved” it. This is what happens when you elect a drunk drug abusing moron to be the leader of the free world, why are we surprised? Bush is doing the best he can, just as if we had elected Beavis or Butthead to the presidency. The cabal around him is interested in making money so lying, cheating, and stealing are their goals, not “solving” problems. Again, if you put Kenneth Lay in charge of the government, stealing the treasury is going to be the goal, not solving problems.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:55 amThis is what happens when blind followers of religious leaders and politicians elect (or appoint in this case) a president. These people like to be led around on a leash like a lap dog. They believe that George Bush is going to single-handedly usher in the rapture and personally welcome Jesus Christ back to life in America.
This is why you cannot mix fantasy with reality. Bush is either nothing but a load of shit (my guess) or he actually believes that he has the blessings of God to do as he pleases in his name and for the benefit of his favorite country, The United States of America. Carte Blanche, free pass, get out of jail free card, extra turn, mulligan after mulligan. George Bush has escaped an amount of scrutiny that probably all our past presidents combined have endured. Why? Malfeasance, lies on top of lies, corruption, favoritism, etc. Why do so many people of our country sell themselves and our country so short? When you try to justify your reality with fantasy, this is what you get.
In the next elections why don’t we try to do something we haven’t done in a long time. Try to elect people who are actual scholars and statesmen. People with proven track records of credible service to this once great nation. People who have a firm grasp of reality.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:43 amDid MA go to bed yet? He said good night for like two hours. I thought he had some lawyering to do this morning.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:45 amWe needed the NIE to tell us that?
Maureen Dowd gives her take on Jerry Falwell’s sulphur statements about Hillary in Another Clinton Seduction.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:57 amthis report was written in April,
theres a reason Bush is releasing this 6 weeks before election….. ????
beware of the trap ????
September 27th, 2006 at 8:28 amI haven’t enjoyed myself this much since Election Night 2004, when George W. Bush was re-elected president with the largest number of popular votes in U.S. history.
Comment by Exley — September 27, 2006 @ 12:29 am
Now if that isn’t sick what is? Maybe he can lick Condis boots.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:43 ammisled? MISLED?? Outright lying is more like it!
September 27th, 2006 at 9:06 amLOTS of posts on this topic. A few stick out, mostly those regarding joining the fight.
My opinion…the cheerleaders for the war under 42 should sign up, the folks against the war should continue what they’re doing.
If the chickenhawks want it so much, let them put their money where their mouth is.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:16 amWe have met the enemy head on and it is us.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:18 amTerror, or the war on terror, is just a dog and pony show for the real agenda, control of mideast oil, why is it that all the countries that we have a problem with have vast amounts of oil, Iraq/Afghanistan/Iran/Venezuela….. 911 was an inside job, it was a psy-op. If you dont think the governement is capable of killing its own to push an agenda, GOOGLE… OPERATION NORTHWOODS, or even the Gulf of Tonkin lie that got us into the Vietnam war… 58K Americans dead due to a lie…. research 911, the truth is coming out… its every Americans duty to hold our governement accountable, and 911 was an attack on us, not by 19 ragtag Muslims, under an order from a guy an a kidney machine in a cave… it was the highest levels of our government who did this, PNAC even wrote about it, want a new Pearl Harbor to launch multiple wars on multiple fronts… 911 is an inside job.. its not a conspiracy theory, its a fact.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:26 amLook dammit!
Cheney and Bush LIED!
September 27th, 2006 at 9:32 amLiberals, you have missed the prime objective. We’re trying to eliminate terrorism instead of praising and upholding it. If you’re against these methods then I challenge each blogger’s patriotism.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:45 amJoefriday #227
Nope Joe Ex(ley)crement can’t…
…his tongue is already occupied…
…up Bush’s anal orifice…
September 27th, 2006 at 9:54 amQuinton Raj, these bills must be passed. Point clear, they broke the law. How do you think those immigrants who went through the proper and timely process to receive a visa feel?
September 27th, 2006 at 9:55 amDaryll,
You don’t stop terrorism by creating more terrorists. Haven’t you heard? GWB got his recruitment badge at his sociopath-scout meeting last week.
You challenging our patriotism? That’s mighty ballsy of you. Go back to hiding under your wet bed.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:56 am#197 – Thanks Bingo.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:58 amDarryl
Okay then, here is how you stop terrorism:
First you find out who the terrorists are right? (In this case, not Iraq.)
Then you go out and you find out who is funding them. (Again, not Iraq.)
Then you go out and try talking the people who are funding them out of it. (You know, like what didn’t happen over Iraq.)
If they refuse, you threaten to invade them and give them a deadline to stop it. (Again, like what didn’t happen in Iraq.)
Meanwhile you plan just how you are going to go in, flatten them, and then get out without leaving a terrorist breeding ground behind you. In other words you have a plan and an exit strategy. (Like the one America didn’t have, in Iraq.)
When the plan is ready, you warn the guys funding terrorism that if they don’t stop it, they will be invaded. (Like Iraq)
Then you invade, use your plan to its full effect, and get out (much like what won’t be happening any time soon in Iraq.)
September 27th, 2006 at 10:10 amYa see, this is why I don’t want any govment studies done. Then the people be readin’ too much. I know what I’m doin’. I don’t need no one tellin’ me real factz. Jus’ listen to God.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:10 amNotice how we didn’t say Iraq was harboring terrorists that brought those buildings down. As for Cheney sure he’s going to say anything to stay in war he’s making big bucks with Haliburton why wouldn’t he stay the course. How many billions/trillions of dollars are we going to spend so we can have theives run us into the ground. They think their fooling people but it will be written in the history books as the Bush/Cheney era will be the worst time in American history no matter how they divert the attention to others. Really we should all put down our ego’s and wake up to the devastation this presidency has brought to this country. We have a president who can get away with anything he wants to and congress and all politicians back him and are afraid to stand against him, or bought and paid for. Look what this country has become. We all can be fooled by all the Rep/Dem battle but it just won’t change a thing in the end, even after november. It’s just a game to them and you and I are all just a joke to them. These politicians do not care what we the people want anymore its just how fat they can line there pockets with your money. Pretty sad we can impeach a president for porking a fat chick but we do nothing when it comes to a president who constantly lies. Bush can hide behind WMD and faulty info. But people remember how he cherry picked info to get into Iraq and wouldn’t listen to anyone would would say anything to contradict his decision. He’s doing it again with Iran what a joke.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:16 am#226 – Daryll, you challenge our patriotism simply because we don’t roll over and let you screw the US Constitution?!?!? Wow! You really do have some brass balls on you, man!
When I joined the Army, I swore an oath.
“I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
If you can read, you can tell which part of that oath is most appropriate to life outside of the military. I swear “that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.” When someone begins to undermine the US Constitution with “signing statements” and attaching caveats to every piece of legislation that would limit the excesses of the office of President, they become a domestic enemiy to the US Constitution.
Now, before you start questioning my patriotism, when did you serve in the US military?
September 27th, 2006 at 10:22 amThese folks will never admit Iraq is a mistake.
They are not man enough to own up to their failures.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:27 amTo those who are willing to sacrifice the US Constitution because they’ve been told to be scared of what the terrorists “might do”, you are supporting the aims of the terrorists themselves.
The terrorists want us to lose the freedoms defined in the US Constitution so they can claim we refuse to stand on our principles.
The terrorists want us to change our high standards and torture people in custody because then we become like the worst in those we oppose.
The US Constitution is not multiple-choice, nor is it suspended just because Pres. Bush wants to scare us right before an election (like he’s successfully done in the past).
The US Constitution is the minimum standard that we relax only when we’ve lost our moral compass and when we’ve given up our ability to maintain our patriotism.
My standards of patriotism include refusing to comprimise my rights just because the President wants a temporary bump in opinion polls.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:54 amBruce Gordon #231
Did you see the pictures of Bushiva embracing then holding hands with Saudi crown prince (Faisal) at the dude farm?
…that should tell rational people all we need to know about Bushiva’s so-called “war on terror”…
…also please see…
…defense contractors, oil and gas company profits since Bushiva and L’il Dick occupied D.C. …
September 27th, 2006 at 10:54 ambig+papa
Look, you have to wonder about a guy who says he is against gays having equal rights, and then goes around pretending to be a cowboy. I don’t think Bush’s actions have ever really followed his public statements.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:59 amYou Americans make me laugh.
Once of a sudden you have become anti-war and anti-Bush.
Why then, did you before supported in great numbers the war in Iraq while the whole world told you that there were no WMD’s or a link to Al Qaeda and 9/11? When the US invaded Iraq there was an 80% approval rating of the war. That’s means most of YOU!
Now there war turns sour for you and now everybody is against the war and makes it sound like they ever had been.
Admit it: You wanted revenge for 9/11. That is all America wants all the time when something like 9/11 or any other terrorist attack happens to them: revenge. It doesn’t matter on who as long as you get it and in high numbers.
And then people fight back. But then you say: “hold on, that’s not fair, they are using guerilla tactics like IEDs”
Of course, you find it so much more fair that you can kill people with smart bombs and from a distance so you won’t get hurt.
Yours is a hatefull country. Gorbatchev said it a couple of weeks ago:
Americans suffer from a winner’s complex. You need to win and it doesn’t matter how or at what cost to the enemy.
Take Vietnam: you whine about the 58,000 soldiers America lost but no word on the 2 Million Vietnamese that you slaughtered.
I don’t buy all this apologetic shit that Americans preach now the war has gone bad.
The 80% approval rating did you in.
when all this is over and done, America and Americans better do a big big really meant “we are sorry” to the world.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:07 amYou all have a lot of soulsearching to do.
Bruce Gorton #238
You’re absolutely correct…
…Bushiva (Rove and Cheney) have turned smoke and mirrors into a political art form…
…lovingly referred to (by them) as “creating reality”…
…and guess what…
…with the help of the media, and a compliant complicit opposition (the DLC)…
…it works!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:13 amI AM ASHAMED to be an American under the cruel and misguided leadership of Mr. Bush and his fellow war criminals. I call for all patriotic American’s to stand-up to these American Terrorists (The Administration) and declare his leadership over. Mr. Bush has never been our Commander-In-Chief.
I’m ashamed of you George!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:19 am#239, Joe wrote: Admit it: You wanted revenge for 9/11.
Darn right, baby!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:33 amPlease Google Video Search:
Freedom to Fascism
Terrorstorm
Its not even about the US, its about World Elites “Illuminati” Agents that have taken control of your gouvernement through the Federal Reserve and are trying to destroy America in order to create the same New World Order Hitler wanted. The guilty are the Rotschild family (who owns 55% of the world wealth 300 trillions), the Rockfellers and the Bidenberg Group. The Bush’s and his neo-conservative minions are just New World Order puppets.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:39 amHere’s a prime example of Exley’s perfidy. He admits defeat, and debunks his own spin.
Barfly,
Now I am on MY way to the bar.
*Sigh* Fine…Saddam was not unique in among the dictators of all time.
But as John Burns explains in posting #125, he was a uniquely monstrous dictator in the modern world covering the last 30 years
Happy?
Good night everybody!!!! Don’t forget to tip the waitresses. They’ve been good to you, so please be good to them! Comment by Exley — September 22, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
Do I take my imaginary victory lap now, Exley?
Or as you would say:
“mission accomplished.â€
Comment by barfly — September
he was a uniquely monstrous dictator in the modern world covering the last 30 years Exley
And so was Polpot . . .
Comment by barfly
0-4, you’re busted – you did say “thirty years†– which encompasses Polpot, and the Shah of Iran. Ready to concede again? It doesn’t hurt as much the second time. How’s it feel to get pantsed by your own strawman?
Comment by barfly — September 27, 2006 @ 3:44 am
September 27th, 2006 at 11:40 am#242 Exley wrote: Darn right, baby!
And it doesn’t matter who you take revenge on:
It also could have been the Pigmees of Africa.
America wants blood and lots of it. Makes you kind of feel good about yourself. Winner’s complex.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:45 amWow, Barfly…You still so obsessed with your defeat that you are still trying to redeem yourself?????? Okay, well….
1. As I showed you last night, the reign of Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot did not coincide. Pol Pot was out of power by the time Saddam Hussein becamse president of Iraq.
2. TAs with Pol Pot, the Shah of Iran had already been deposed before Saddam came to power…..Check your dates and then get back to me, okay, rookie…..Regardless of the fact you have confused your dates, I will also point out that while the Shah was a bad dude…Saddam was far, far, FAR worse.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:52 am#245 Joe
“America wants blood and lots of it. Makes you kind of feel good about yourself. “
Well, terrorist blood, SURE!
Makes us feel VERY good!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:53 amXill
Oh come off it. The Rothschild Conspiracy was even mentioned in Mein Kampf, it is one of the oldest piles of crap conspiracy theories out there, it has repeatedly been shown to be total kak and you know it.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:58 amHi Exley!
And everyone who isn’t American or Republican, is a terrorist of course!
I guess the US will be busy for a while killing ‘terrorists’ then!
September 27th, 2006 at 11:58 ami watched bush squirm and attempt to weasel his way out of the facts presented by the NIE. what a pompous little this man is, denying the obvious, that terrorism has spread because of his illegal rape of iraq.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:00 pmthe truly sad part of his little spiel is that there are millions of americans who still believe that bush is God, or at the least he was appointed by God to do the dirty deed in iraq. these americans, the patriots, self appointed of course, are ignorant of the world they live in, they are blinded by the bush B.S., they should be pitied not scorned, and bush should be hung out to dry.
Question:
what do the Shah and Saddam have in common?
Answer:
September 27th, 2006 at 12:05 pmThey were both put in place by the CIA and supported by America!
The thing that amazes me is that Bush and Cheney have anything higher than a zero percent approval rate. Their political careers should be interdicted and they should be taken by secret CIA airplane to Romania and interrogated to reveal whether they truly were cynically manipulating the public or just stupid.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:07 pmThe Neocons done? The Bush family done? hahahaha! Dream on! These scum bags will be with us for a long time.
Don’t forget, GWB has more than one ancestor that was president; on his mother’s side, the Pierce side (and GWB really is a Pierce) he had President Franklin Pierce. The succession was Franklin Pierce, President Buchanan, then Lincoln. Pierce and Buchanan were “doughfaces” that is North Easterners that supported slavery and the seccession of the Confederate states. They were in fact agents of The City of London financial interests and thus the British Empire. They were and are traitors to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
GWB has continued the family tradition and from his grandfather’s side he adds the Andover prep school tradition. Andover is where historically the elite of Boston has always sent its sons to school. And like them it is a hotbed of AngloAmerican anti Constitution treason.
GWB and GHWB and Franklin Pierce were all men wiht a mission; to destroy the United States, deindustrialize it, destroy its sovreignity, bring in the piracy known as “free trade”.
And it’s worth remembering that in his own day Franklin Pierce was widely rumoured in the American press to be the main organizer of the plot to assassinate Lincoln. It got so bad that he had to publicly deny it.
911 was an inside job.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:19 pmI have one thing to mention about the lies the Bushies like to tell. The harp on the “fact” we haven’t been attacked since 9/11. Lie! They and the media have forgotten about the anthrax attacks. Why, do the Bushies know who perpetrated them? I have a conspiracy theory. The attacks were aimed at people who might stand up to the power grab going on.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:39 pmfyi, the total document has not been released yet…
so, how can anyone come to the conclusion that bush/cheny have misrepresented the report?
the leakers never thought the WHOLE report would be released and now dems are worried that the true message of the report is not what has been leaked in the few sentences that have been reported. which is precisely why nancy pelosi wanted a closed session.
i wish you people would start to realize the true enemy we face (radical islam). the longer it takes for you to realize this, the longer it will be until we commit ourselves to winning. “know thy enemy.” he is not the president. the president acts to protect the american people, even moonbats. the only smoke and mirrors being used is on your end of the spectrum by deflecting attention away from the people trying to kill us.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:41 pm#253 F. LaRouche
Free trade as in NAFTA? Outsourcing? Globalization?
The NWO brought to you by the Skull & Bones society of Yale, another hotbed of WASP conspirators.
Interesting, I didn’t know about Franklin Pierce being one GWB’s forefathers. But they whole family goes back to the Plymouth boattrip to the new world.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:45 pmI can’t beleive no one commented on Terry the Turtle’s simply hilarious comments (#35, 39 and 40). probably because, once again, Exley and other trolls managed to hijack a thread.
Great work, Terry!! Those could quite possibly be some of the funniest comments I’ve ever read anywhere. Simply brilliant satire.
They’re bookmarked — I’ll be using them in the future (with the proper credit, of course).
September 27th, 2006 at 12:56 pmExley, you are a pathetic excuse for a human being. Please be aware that AmeriKKKa is a “Paper Tiger” now. The world is watching and becoming increasing amused with the U.S.’s “saber rattling”. Believe me, the U.S will reap what it has sowed. The world is no longer scared of you AmeriKKKa. Remember when you attempt to kill “others”, the same thing can happen to you. So yes, be afraid. Be very afraid!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:59 pm# 230. Zooey:
Your welcome.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:00 pm“* The Iraq conflict has become the ’cause celebre’Â for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.“
September 27th, 2006 at 1:27 pmBecause of Bush/Cheney worshipping inbred IDIOTS like IMAO and
Ex(ley)crement…
…I NOW hate America for its freedom and democracy too…
September 27th, 2006 at 2:07 pmTerrytheTurtle #s 35,39 &40
That is some HILARIOUS shi*t…
hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Right ON!
September 27th, 2006 at 2:20 pmJesus Christ Exley are you for real?
You seem relatively bright but willfully obtuse.
Everyone knows Hussein was a bad man, but why didn’t it bother you conservatives until after he invaded Kuwait? You know, well after he had gassed the Kurds and been torturing his own people for years? Does it bother you that G.H.W.B. intervened with the U.N. and our own congress when they wanted to take action against Hussein for gassing the Kurds? Does the hypocrisy of our nation looking the other way until it was convenient to mention rankle you in any way?
Face it, Hussein is just one in long line of vile dictators that we helped prop up so long as it was politically expedient for our agenda of the moment. All attrocities in the past and currently underway conveniently overlooked.
Iraq is an unmitigated disaster and at this point beyond recovery. How nice you and the rest of the neo-cons are willing to risk other people’s family’s to pursue your “stay the course” mantra. Typical chickenhawks who challenge other people’s patriotism or love of country while never taking the risks upon themselves. (and yes, I’ve served. U.S. Army, veteran of the first Gulf War.)
The facts are these… The Carter admin destabilized Soviet controlled Afghanistan to give the U.S.S.R. their own Viet Nam. It was wildly successful and probably did more to destabilize the Soviet Union and precipitate it’s financial collapse than anything else including Reagan’s budget busting arms build up. As part of this plan we trained and armed rebel Afghani factions who would later become the Taliban and yes Bin Laden.
Once the Soviets left we didn’t step in to fill the vacuum and Afghanistan devolved into all out civil war until the Taliban established control.
Years of propping up dictators such as Hussein, the Shah of Iran, and the ruling family of Saudi Arabia, combined with unquestioned support of Israel undermined our image with average muslims throughout the world. With little else to cling to these people were ripe for the delusions of the Mullahs and Imams and the notions of radical fundementalist Islamic teachings.
Flash forward a few years when the Bush family, and the Carlyle group are trying to get a natural gas pipeline through Afghanistan, when Bin Laden now perceives the U.S. to be his enemy, the shit is ready to hit the fan.
Starting in 1995, Clinton took actions against terrorism that were unprecedented in American history. He poured billions and billions of dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community. He poured billions more into the protection of critical infrastructure. He ordered massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack. He ordered a reorganization of the intelligence community itself, ramming through reforms and new procedures to address the demonstrable threat. Within the National Security Council, “threat meetings” were held three times a week to assess looming conspiracies. His National Security Advisor, Sandy Berger, prepared a voluminous dossier on al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, actively tracking them across the planet. Clinton raised the issue of terrorism in virtually every important speech he gave in the last three years of his tenure. In 1996, Clinton delivered a major address to the United Nations on the matter of international terrorism, calling it “The enemy of our generation.”
Behind the scenes, he leaned vigorously on the leaders of nations within the terrorist sphere. In particular, he pushed Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to assist him in dealing with the threat from neighboring Afghanistan and its favorite guest, Osama bin Laden. Before Sharif could be compelled to act, he was thrown out of office by his own army. His replacement, Pervez Musharraf, pointedly refused to do anything to assist Clinton in dealing with these threats. Despite these and other diplomatic setbacks, terrorist cell after terrorist cell were destroyed across the world, and bomb plots against American embassies were thwarted. Because of security concerns, these victories were never revealed to the American people until very recently.
In America, few people heard anything about this. Clinton’s dire public warnings about the threat posed by terrorism, and the massive non-secret actions taken to thwart it, went completely unreported by the media, which was far more concerned with stained dresses and baseless Drudge Report rumors. When the administration did act militarily against bin Laden and his terrorist network, the actions were dismissed by partisans within the media and Congress as scandalous “wag the dog” tactics. The TV networks actually broadcast clips of the movie “Wag The Dog” to accentuate the idea that everything the administration was doing was contrived fakery.
The bombing of the Sundanese aspirin factory at al-Shifa, in particular, drew wide condemnation from these quarters, despite the fact that the CIA found and certified VX nerve agent precursor in the ground outside the factory, despite the fact that the factory was owned by Osama bin Laden’s Military Industrial Corporation, and despite the fact that the manager of the factory lived in bin Laden’s villa in Khartoum. The book “Age of Sacred Terror” quantifies the al-Shifa issue thusly: “The dismissal of the al-Shifa attack as a scandalous blunder had serious consequences, including the failure of the public to comprehend the nature of the al Qaeda threat.”
In Congress, Clinton was thwarted by the reactionary conservative majority in virtually every attempt he made to pass legislation that would attack al Qaeda and terrorism. His 1996 omnibus terror bill, which included many of the anti-terror measures we now take for granted after September 11, was withered almost to the point of uselessness by attacks from the right; Jesse Helms and Trent Lott were openly dismissive of the threats Clinton spoke of.
Clinton wanted to attack the financial underpinnings of the al-Qaeda network by banning American companies and individuals from dealing with foreign banks and financial institutions that al Qaeda was using for its money-laundering operations. Texas Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, killed Clinton’s bill on this matter and called it “totalitarian.” In fact, he was compelled to kill the bill because his most devoted patrons, the Enron Corporation and its criminal executives in Houston, were using those same terrorist financial networks to launder their own dirty money and rip off the Enron stockholders.
Just before departing office, Clinton managed to make a deal with the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development to have some twenty nations close tax havens used by al Qaeda. His term ended before the deal was sealed, and the incoming Bush administration acted immediately to destroy the agreement. According to Time magazine, in an article entitled “Banking on Secrecy” published in October of 2001, Bush economic advisors Larry Lindsey and R. Glenn Hubbard were urged by think tanks like the Center for Freedom and Prosperity to opt out of the coalition Clinton had formed. The conservative Heritage Foundation lobbied Bush’s Treasury Secretary, Paul O’Neill, to do the same. In the end, the lobbyists got what they wanted, and the Bush administration pulled America out of the plan. The Time article stated, “Without the world’s financial superpower, the biggest effort in years to rid the world’s financial system of dirty money was short-circuited.”
This laundry list of partisan catastrophes goes on and on. Far from being inept on the matter of terrorism, Clinton was profoundly activist in his attempts to address terrorism. Much of his work was foiled by right-wing Congressional conservatives who, simply, refused to accept the fact that he was President. These men, paid to work for the public trust, spent eight years working diligently to paralyze any and all Clinton policies, including anti-terror initiatives that, if enacted, would have gone a long way towards thwarting the September 11 attacks. Beyond them lay the worthless television media, which ignored and spun the terrorist issue as it pursued salacious leaks from Ken Starr’s office, leaving the American people drowning in a swamp of ignorance on a matter of deadly global importance.
Over and above the theoretical questions regarding whether or not Clinton’s anti-terror policies, if passed, would have stopped September 11 lies the very real fact that attacks very much like 9/11 were, in fact, stopped dead by the Clinton administration. The most glaring example of this came on December 31, 1999, when the world gathered to celebrate the passing of the millennium. On that night, al Qaeda was gathering as well.
The terrorist network planned to simultaneously attack the national airports in Washington DC and Los Angeles, the Amman Raddison Hotel in Jordan, a constellation of holy sites in Israel, and the USS Sullivan at dock in Yemen. Each and every single one of these plots, which ranged from one side of the planet to the other, was foiled by the efforts of the Clinton administration. Speaking for the first time about these millennium plots, in a speech delivered to the Coast Guard Academy on May 17, 2000, Clinton said, “I want to tell you a story that, unfortunately, will not be the last example you will have to face.”
Indeed.
Clinton proved that Osama bin Laden and his terror network can be foiled, can be thwarted, can be stopped. The multifaceted and complex nature of the international millennium plots rivals the plans laid before September 11, and involved counter-terrorism actions within several countries and across the entire American intelligence and military community. All resources were brought to bear, and the terrorists went down to defeat. The proof is in the pudding here. September 11, like the millennium plots, could have been avoided.
Couple this with other facts about the Bush administration we now have in hand. The administration was warned about a massive terror plot in the months before September by the security services of several countries, including Israel, Egypt, Germany and Russia. CIA Director George Tenet delivered a specific briefing on the matter to the administration on August 8, 2001. The massive compendium of data on Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda compiled by Sandy Berger, and delivered to Condoleezza Rice upon his departure, went completely and admittedly unread until the attacks took place. The attacks themselves managed, for over an hour, to pierce the most formidable air defense system in the history of the Earth without a single fighter aircraft taking wing until the catastrophe was concluded.
It is not fashionable these days to pine for the return of William Jefferson Clinton. Given the facts above, and the realities we face about the administration of George W. Bush, and the realities we endure regarding the aftermath of September 11, the United States of America would be, and was, well served by its previous leader. That we do not know this, that September 11 happened at all, that it was such a wretched shock to the American people, that we were so woefully unprepared, can be laid at the feet of a failed news media establishment, and at the feet of a pack of power-mad conservative extremists who now have a great deal to atone for.
Had Clinton been heeded, the measures he espoused would have been put in place, and a number of powerful bulwarks would have been thrown into the paths of those commercial airplanes. Had the news media been something other than a purveyor of masturbation fantasies from the far-right, the American people would have know the threats we faced, and would have compelled their Congressmen to act. Had Congress itself been something other than an institution ruled by narrow men whose only desire was to break a sitting President by any means necessary, we would very probably still have a New York skyline dominated by two soaring towers.
Had the Bush administration not continued this pattern of gross partisan ineptitude and heeded the blitz of domestic and international warnings, instead of trooping off to Texas for a month-long vacation, had Bush’s National Security Advisor done one hour’s worth of her homework, we probably would not be in the grotesque global mess that currently envelops us. Never forget that many of the activists who pushed throughout the 1990s for the annihilation of all things Clinton are now foursquare in charge of the country today.
September 27th, 2006 at 2:30 pmAfter 911 the lies spewed from our “leaders” that linked Iraq with the super lie 911, the sheeple thought that Saddam Hussien himself was flying the planes……… And we have been attacked after 9-11, remember the Anthrax attacks that linked the strain to Ft Det. in MD? oh wait the media doesnt want to disciss that, and why does the FBI refuse to put on the Osama wanted poster that he was involved in 911? oh they have no concrete proof…… thats what the FBI says. The neo con Bush lovers just cant open their eyes to the fact, that Bush is a mega liar, if the Dems were in power, they would be criticizing the democrat like there was no tomorrow… and I hate the Dems as well, Republicans and democrats, are the same piece of shit split in 2 different piles… Thank you…
September 27th, 2006 at 2:35 pm#264, Meatloafing….Long posting…I will respond to as much of it as I can at this time.
First of all, you are probably not going to like this, but I agree with much of what you say.
1) You write: “Face it, Hussein is just one in long line of vile dictators that we helped prop up so long as it was politically expedient for our agenda of the moment. All attrocities in the past and currently underway conveniently overlooked.”
While that is not an entirely accurate depiction of history, I get your point and do not disagree….And you know who else agrees with you? President Bush….From Nov. 2003:
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Sixty years of western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe, because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty. As long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place of stagnation, resentment, and violence, ready for export.
Based on what you wrote, I can’t see how you can disagree with the president’s words.
2) You write: “Iraq is an unmitigated disaster and at this point beyond recovery.”
As I have said many times here, when I see the daily Iraqi-on-Iraqi violence, I grow less and less optimistic that the Iraqis will take advantage of the golden opportunity handed to them by the Coalition’s removal of Saddam Hussein. Rather than creating a democratic, tolerant, civlized society for their themselves and their children, they seem instead to be choosing to indulge in ethnic and religious hatreds. It is a tragedy that they are squandering this chance. While I am not quite ready to agree with you that Iraq is beyond recovery, I am increasingly pessimistic.
3) The Carter admin destabilized Soviet controlled Afghanistan to give the U.S.S.R. their own Viet Nam. It was wildly successful Agreed. One of the few things Carter did right.
4) As part of this plan we trained and armed rebel Afghani factions who would later become the Taliban and yes Bin Laden.
Only half-right. While we did arm and train indigenous Afghan resistance, we did not arm or train the so-called “Afghan Arabs,” of which Bin Laden was a part. The Afghan Arabs had independent sources of funding from Saudi Arabia and other Arabs. This is confirmed in Peter Bergen’s “Holy War, Inc.” and the 9/11 Commission Report.
5) The bombing of the Sundanese aspirin factory at al-Shifa, in particular, drew wide condemnation from these quarters, despite the fact that the CIA found and certified VX nerve agent precursor in the ground outside the factory, despite the fact that the factory was owned by Osama bin Laden’s Military Industrial Corporation, and despite the fact that the manager of the factory lived in bin Laden’s villa in Khartoum. The book “Age of Sacred Terror†quantifies the al-Shifa issue thusly: “The dismissal of the al-Shifa attack as a scandalous blunder had serious consequences, including the failure of the public to comprehend the nature of the al Qaeda threat.â€
Couldn’t agree more. I wholeheartedly supported Clinton’s attack on the Al Shifa Al Qaeda plant. I rejected (and apparently so do you) the criticisms of the strike by famed leftist Noam Chomsky who claimed that Clinton’s actions were a crime against humanity.
Moreover, as you may or may not know, the Clinton Administration, including Richard Clarke, had intelligence that Al Qaeda received technical assistance at the Al Shifa plant by nerve gas experts from…..where? That’s right! IRAQ! (So, there goes the canard that there was no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda).
So, we agree again…Criticism of Clinton for destroying Al Shifa was completely unjustified.
6) Which brings us to the larger issue of Clinton’s efforts against Al Qaeda. As I said I supported the Al Shifa strike and the strike against Bin Laden in 1998…And yes, Clinton had some successes against terrorists. I have never said otherwise. But he also had his failures..and they were considerable. His responses to the attacks were insufficient. The fact that 9/11 took place in testament to that…(That is not to blame Clinton for 9/11…That is absurd. The repsonsibility for 9/11 lies squarely with Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and its supporters). So, while Clinton did have some successm for him and his supporter to claim now that he “everything” he could to get OBL just isn’t the case.
Just this week, Michael Scheuer, the former CIA official who created and ran the Anti-OBL unit at CIA in the 1990s and VOCIFEROUS Bush critic and author of “Imperial Hubris: How The West Is Losing the War on Terror,” said in a CBS News interview about President Clinton:
“The former president seems to be able to deny facts with impugnity. Bin Laden is alive today because Mr. Clinton, Mr. Sandy Berger, and Mr. Richard Clarke refused to kill him,” he said.
EXPANDED TRANSCRIPT:
“Let’s talk about what President Clinton had to say on Fox yesterday. He basically laid blame at the feet of the CIA and the FBI for not being able to certify or verify that Osama bin Laden was responsible for a number of different attacks. Does that ring true to you?”
Scheuer refuted Smith’s portrayal of Clinton:
“No, sir, I don’t think so. The president seems to be able, the former president seems to be able to deny facts with impugnity. Bin Laden is alive today because Mr. Clinton, Mr. Sandy Berger, and Mr. Richard Clarke refused to kill him. That’s the bottom line. And every time he says what he said to Chris Wallace on Fox, he defames the CIA especially, and the men and women who risk their lives to give his administration repeated chances to kill bin Laden.”
Again, that is the former head of the anti-Bin Laden group under Bill Clinton AND a strong Bush critic talking.
Hmmmm, long posting by me too. Look forward to your response.
September 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pmMore from the Scheuer interview on CBS:
CBS’s SMITH: “All right, is the Bush administration any less responsible for not finishing the job in Tora Bora?”
SCHEUER: “Oh, I think there’s plenty of blame to go around, sir, but the fact of the matter is that the Bush Administration had one chance that they botched, and the Clinton Administration had eight to ten chances that they refused to try…But it’s just, it’s an incredible kind of situation for the American people over the weekend to hear their former president mislead them.”
September 27th, 2006 at 3:28 pm#264 Meatloafing
BRAVO!!!!!!!
September 27th, 2006 at 3:32 pmI’ll bet Bush can’t even pronounce NON SEQUITUR.
September 27th, 2006 at 3:49 pmWhat I want to know is…
1. Why do they keep referencing the history of terrorism when its all unrelated to whats happening now ? Every act was separate, by a different org if an org at all or just some loonie or cia op. I think about 2 or 3% of their documentation regarding past terrorism can actually be legit terrorist acts and the rest can be categorized as much a terrorist act as a typical nut case kidnapper (Not a plot of freedom hating rebels) however there is never information as to why the act was commited, yet one can conclude that since none of these acts were ever commited on US soil we were probably somewhere we should never have been…
2. Bush claims they will always find a reason to attack us. Bush Claims thats why we have to deal with them before they get the chance and he is responsible for protecting the American People and implementing national security. Bush Claims that “We werent even in Iraq and they attacked us on 9/11. Lets disect these statements …
a.) Has the American people ever been provided with the reason by the Gov. as to why terrorists attacked us in the past or present for that matter????
b.) Who is it that we have to deal with before they attack us ? Iraq never attacked us. And the excuse for going to war with Iraq was WMD not WTC.
SOOOO If “we werent even in Iraq and the terroists attacked us” but the terrorists werent in any way affiliated with Iraq, but will always find a reason to attack us, nor was it Iraq that attacked us then who was it that attacked us and for what reason and where is the one responsible and why are we in iraq spending billions and billions of dollars fighting “INSURGENTS” instead of “TERRORISTS” for fractions of a fraction less with intelligence and covert special force ops and guided missile strikes in the right country…? Where is the proactive national security in that or protection from whom?
c.) If Bush is, was and always has been so hot on national security and protecting “The American People” Why did he hide out in that elementary school with a bunch of school kids when we were supposably being attacked ? That does not match up with what he nor anyone else who supports him is projecting of himself…
Im sorry but everything that has to do with this guy turns up big time contradictions… the guy is a compulsive liar and a premeditating murderer as well as a traitor, guilty of high treason and should get the firing squad with the rest of his admin… if he doesnt fess up as to who is really behind all this… But then again we could always hang him up by the ears and pull his toe nails off with pliars to make him fess up…. since he made torture legal !?!?
September 27th, 2006 at 3:56 pmKnowing that the Reps are about to get their colllective asses handed to them come November, this makes perfect sense to de-classify. It’s the same tactic they’ve used all along, promote fear among the public in hopes they become frozen and unwilling to make a change. “Better the evil you know…”
September 27th, 2006 at 4:16 pmI’m hardly a Clinton fan, and certainly not trying to defend him so much as demonstrate that as he stated he tried. Which is more than Bush did, and has done in regards to Bin Laden.
As far as what Bush said about freedom in the middle east, I take that as much to heart as anything else he’s lied about. He’s a uniter not a divider, he’s a compassionate conservative, they hate us for our freedoms, Hussein’s pursuing yellow cake uranium, etc… Hardly the first time a politican has said one thing and pursued another direction. Strangely enough Bush’s actions often seem contradictroy to what hes says.
Here’s an interview with Mr. Scheuer you might find interesting… http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/01/int05001.html
More from Mr. Scheuer in an interview with Nora O‘donnel on hardball:
“That is very spooky. Michael Scheuer left the CIA in 2004 after 22 years with the agency. He was the CIA‘s man in charge of tracking Osama bin Laden and what he was up to. And he warned the CIA director that our country faced an imminent threat from Osama bin Laden.
Michael, what can you tell us about these newly declassified memos from July and August of 1996, that the Clinton State Department knew that Osama bin Laden had the wherewithal to attack the United States?
MICHAEL SCHEUER, FORMER CIA TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it was very much common knowledge across the intelligence community that if—once Osama bin Laden moved from Sudan to Afghanistan, that he would be much freer to operate. There was no government in Afghanistan, it was a free range sort of territory.
From the CIA‘s perspective, it was the best possible place for him to go because we could operate there more freely. And we thought for sure we would be able to provide the government with chances to capture or kill him. As it turned.
O‘DONNELL: But many people have made the impression that something in the Bush administration was done wrong. But there‘s evidence that the Clinton administration knew full well that bin Laden had the wherewithal and was planning to attack the United States. Who is to blame and did the president, Clinton, get this information?
SCHEUER: Certainly the president got the information. And most certainly his closest adviser, Sandy Berger and Mr. Clarke—Richard Clarke, had the information from 1996 forward that bin Laden intended to attack the United States. There‘s no question of that. And in terms of which administration had more chances, Mr. Clinton‘s administration had far more chances to kill Osama bin Laden than Mr. Bush has until this day.
O‘DONNELL: That‘s very interesting. I don‘t think that many Americans know that or think that everything that they‘ve heard—you‘ve spent your life tracking Osama bin Laden. From what we know now and what you know, how many missed opportunities were there to prevent the 9/11 attacks?
SCHEUER: Well, we had—the question of whether or not we could have prevented the attacks is one you could debate forever. But we had at least eight to 10 chances to capture or kill Osama bin Laden in 1998 and 1999. And the government on all occasions decided that the information was not good enough to act.
O‘DONNELL: What—who then is to blame? I think the American people want to know, then, who then is to blame for this?
SCHEUER: It can only be the policy-makers and the elected officials. The CIA provides the intelligence, the actual decision to act using military force or using.
O‘DONNELL: So what you‘re saying is that when you ran the bin Laden desk, you knew where bin Laden was. You knew that bin Laden was trying to attack the United States. You knew that bin Laden had the wherewithal and that the policy-makers in the Clinton administration and then the Bush administration did not heed your warnings?
SCHEUER: Not my warnings. I hate to make myself the center of anything, ma‘am. But the intelligence community as a whole had warned the administration repeatedly. And I think there‘s no lack of record of that. It just—the 9/11 Commission failed to find anyone responsible for anything. The CIA can‘t order an attack. Only the National Security Council and the president can order an attack.
O‘DONNELL: Let me ask you what you know about what we‘ve read recently about a secret military operation known as Able Danger. There are people involved in that that say that the United States knew about Mohammed Atta a year before the 9/11 attacks. Is that true? And was there a massive failure by our government?
SCHEUER: I don‘t know firsthand information about Able Danger, ma‘am, but from what I‘ve read in the media, that the lawyers prevented them from passing the information to the FBI, that certainly rings true. The U.S. intelligence community is palsied by lawyers.
When we were going to capture Osama bin Laden, for example, the lawyers were more concerned with bin Laden‘s safety and his comfort than they were with the officers charged with capturing him. We had to build an ergonomically designed chair to put him in, special comfort in terms of how he was shackled into the chair. They even worried about what kind of tape to gag him with so it wouldn‘t irritate his beard. The lawyers are the bane of the intelligence community.
O‘DONNELL: Let me ask you, because you spent 22 years tracking Osama bin Laden, he is still at large, we are fighting an insurgency in Iraq where there are allies of Osama bin Laden, what threat do you think bin Laden poses to the United States now?
SCHEUER: Well, at first—I only tracked him for the last 10 years, ma‘am. I tracked him for as long as the U.S. government has been tracking him. He‘s an existential threat, as they say, to the United States. He can detonate probably a weapon of mass destruction inside of the United States, be it a suitcase nuclear weapon or a chemical or biological weapon. And we‘ve done really very little to stop him from proceeding along that course.
O‘DONNELL: Do you think that he is in Afghanistan?
SCHEUER: I think he is along the border. I think the general judgment that he is on the Pak-Afghan border hiding or at least living is very accurate. He is very comfortable there. He is protected by the tribes that live on the border. And the one thing we would hate to say but it is perfectly true is that he is the most important leader and hero in the Muslim world today. There are very few Muslims who would ever think of turning him over to the Americans.
O‘DONNELL: And, finally, the president has made the case that winning the war in Iraq is central to winning the war on terror and making sure that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda cannot take—harm the United States. Is that true, if we win there, will that help?
SCHEUER: No, ma‘am. The war in Iraq has broken the back of our counterterrorism effort. I‘m not an expert on the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, but the invasion of Iraq has made sure this war will last decades ahead and it has transferred bin Laden and al Qaeda from being man and an organization into being a philosophy and a movement. We‘ve really made sure that the war against us is going to be a long and very bloody one. Iraq was an absolutely disastrous decision.
O‘DONNELL: All right. Well, thank you, Michael Scheuer. “Inside 9/11†airs Sunday, August 21st, and Monday, August 22nd at 9:00 p.m. Eastern time on the National Geographic Channel. Join us again tomorrow night at 7:00 Eastern for more HARDBALL.”
It’s apparent that he thinks Clinton had more chances than Bush to get Bin Laden, and he’s probably in a better position to address that question from an intel perspective, but we have to keep in mind the international and political realities Clinton faced vs. those Bush faced/faces.
Bush has and had much more international support, but then just turned away and screwed it all up. From a common sense, let alone political stand point, with world opinion firmly in our corner after 9/11 how can it be seen as anything other than a screw up of monumental proportions that Bush didn’t pursue Bin Laden until his capture or elimination when the world would not have stood in his way? In his wildest dreams Clinton never had that kind of opportunity or support from anyone.
In the Buzzflash interview Scheuer makes a pretty good common sense argument for a more intelligent and rational approach that could have and should have been taken in regards to the middle east.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:25 pmAs an independently wealthy Saudi national at the time of the Soviet Afghan conflict Bin Laden did not need CIA funding or support but the training could prove useful. From the many sources I’ve read the level of organization among the Afghan forces was quite fluid and Saudi organized forces interacted with Afghan forces on a regular basis, I’ve also read some reports that Bin Laden funded and supplied contsruction efforts on infratstructure, some of which was used by the CIA to hide and store munitions, so it seems entirely possible that there was contact between Bin Laden and the CIA but we will probably never know the whole truth, but it is not entirely outside the realm of possibility that Bin Laden benefitted from CIA training, and it is most definitely true that U.S. policy in the region created the environment that resulted in Bin Laden’s ascendence to power and notiriety in the region.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:48 pm#274, Meatloafing….Do you have the date of that Scheuer interview with O’Donnell?
One more thing — You wrote: “I’m hardly a Clinton fan, and certainly not trying to defend him so much as demonstrate that as he stated he tried. Which is more than Bush did, and has done in regards to Bin Laden.”
Oh, come on, ML….Look, one can criticize Dubya for not doing enough to get Bin Laden after 9/11 or that the U.S. screwed up at Tora Bora or that he took his eyes off the prize and got diverted by Iraq, but you can’t say Bush has done nothing or hasn’t even tried to get Bin Laden…There are approximately 20,000 troops in Afghanistan and Lord knows how many CIA agents there and in Pakistan now….Maybe that’s not enough….But it is not nothing.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:55 pmThe O’Donnell interview was July 5th.
Sorry, but considering what’s at stake what needed/s to be done, taking his eye off the ball in Afghanistan, turning world opinion primarily against us, strategically losing Iraq and Afghanistan if we’re not very careful, I think it’s entirely fair to say Bush is far and away the biggest screw-up in history. He took a difficult task and has made it damn near impossible. Almost everything he touches he makes worse. We shouldn’t be surprised, his life history shows the same sorry pattern in every aspect of his life. Sorry but that’s as plain as the nose on your face.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:12 pm#280, Well, I am increasingly beginning to come to the conclusion that Iraq was a mistake — at least until we did more in Afghanistan…Not quite tehre yet…..But I am getting closer to my “Bobby Kennedy” moment.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:22 pmHere’s a prime example of Exley’s perfidy. He admits defeat, and debunks his own spin. I think it’s necessary that those who think 0-4 Exley argues from an intellectually honest stand point to actually see for themselves who bested who, and who kept changing the criteria whenever his weak assertions didn’t pan out. Sorry 0-4, but this is for your own good – like a chicken-killing dog, the best way to make you more honest it to tie your handiwork around your neck until its good and rotten. It’s the only way.
In an exchange that Exley originally claimed that “Saddam was unique,” I pointed out that Saddam was neither unique historically nor for his time.
After ducking me for hours, he posts this:
Barfly,
Now I am on MY way to the bar.
*Sigh* Fine…Saddam was not unique in among the dictators of all time.
But as John Burns explains in posting #125, he was a uniquely monstrous dictator in the modern world covering the last 30 yearsHappy?
Now today he posts this:
1. As I showed you last night, the reign of Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot did not coincide. Pol Pot was out of power by the time Saddam Hussein becamse president of Iraq.
0-4, you’re busted – you did say “thirty years†– which encompasses Polpot, and the Shah of Iran. Ready to concede again? It doesn’t hurt as much the second time. How’s it feel to get pantsed by your own strawman?
I merely pointed out your lies. Why so defensive?
And it’s now 0-5.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:56 pmSorry, Barfly…You lose again…:
“Many of us had worked on and off long years in Iraq, and had come to understand what made Iraq different from almost every other country we had ever been to. I personally have lived and worked in many of the world’s nastiest places over the last 30 years.
And Iraq was clearly the nastiest of them, saving only North Korea about which I know a great deal less, because visas for North Korea are a great deal harder to get.
Iraq was the most complete terrorist state. It was a frightening and pathetic thing to see how a nation of 25 million people had been reduced to a state of abject fear. And we knew that there’s only one way to produce this kind of fear, and that is by killing, by large scale killing.
Now we know with the war over that what human rights reports had been telling us for years was probably an underestimate. We know that he killed hundred of thousands of his own people.â€
John Burns
September 27th, 2006 at 6:06 pmNew York Times
http://www.cbc.ca/ deadlineiraq/ burns.pdf#search=%22John%20Burns%20Iraq%20different%20fear%22
282 “the war over”, i laugh in your face, not only is the war not over but as we all know, it has increased in violence.
i don’t know where you got your facts from, probably from “the chimp” in the white house, but the iraq war is far from over. you see, you actually have a quagmire, a stalemate, a killing field in iraq.
bush, sadaam, you pick, both are criminals, both deserve to be executed for crimes against humanity.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:46 pm#863 Denise Calhoun
September 27th, 2006 at 7:16 pmWho was I trying to convince? You guys, of course! If you had bothered to read your own leaders’ words you would have seen that Bush only said what the Democrats had been saying for years! Also, If Clinton had dealt with Sadaam the first time he violated the UN instead of leaving his mess for someone else, we wouldn’t be here now. You mention Katrina? I’m sorry, but It was the fault Mayor Nagin and the Governor (both Democrats) for not stocking the Dome and convention center with water and food. He knew what was coming and thankfully the hurricane weakened to Cat 3 and didn’t hit New Orleans directly, but he even let a thousand busses go underwater! He could have run them around the clock to get everyone out, but he wanted Greyhounds instead! Oh, good god!
287…bush sr. had the chance to destroy sadaam in the first gulf war, he whimped out. so in fact it is both of the bush boys who have screwed up royally, the senior chimp for not getting sadaam when he had the chance and baby chimp for the illegally invading the wrong country.
god told junior bush you invade the wrong country, go figure.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:39 pm[...] Now check out how Bush and Cheney interprets this information. Posted by Michael Kolanos Filed in Iraq War, Propaganda [...]
September 27th, 2006 at 8:28 pmLook folks Geneva Switzerland is just a spot on a map and a map is just g.d. piece of paper.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:38 pmyou are all missing it. it has nothing to do with bush/cheney, or any other neo-con for that matter. it is the shareholders of the Federal reserve, the real rulers of this country, shut down the FED go back to a gold or silver standard and it ends political corruption.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:30 pmso vote Dammit!!!!
September 28th, 2006 at 1:03 am…for those who are still looking for the Bush/Cheney “exit stragegy” from Iraq …THERE ISN’T ONE !! The plan is for the U.S. to NEVER LEAVE IRAQ ..that was and is the entire plan for Iraq.
Bush has many times stated that this or that problem will be left for some other future president to decide…and on that one point I believe his words!
September 28th, 2006 at 6:54 amTHIS GOVT IS TOTALLY IGNORING THE PEOPLE!! BESIDES MAKING A COMPLETE BLOODY MESS OF THE MIDDLE EAST THEY ARE TOTALLY IN BED WITH BIG MONEY!! WE ARE NOW IN A PLUTOCRACY!! PLEASE RESEARCH : Kelo v. New London supreme court decision. It allows corporations to lobby the govt and take your land under the guise of making jobs for the community. AMERICA !!THIS IS WHAT THE FOREFATHERS HAD IN MIND FOR THIS COUNTRY.
September 28th, 2006 at 11:57 amFeatured on BuzzTracker…
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October 24th, 2006 at 3:29 pm