CBS Turns Over News Broadcast To Man Who Blames School Shootings on Teaching Evolution and Abortion
CBS Turns Over News Broadcast To Man Who Blames School Shootings on Teaching Evolution and Abortion
Last night, the CBS Evening News turned their broadcast over to a man named Brian Rohrbough, who lost his son during the Columbine massacre. Mr. Rohrbough proceeded to blame recent school shootings on: 1) the teaching of evolution, and 2) abortion. Watch it:
Mr. Rohrbough suffered a great loss and is certainly entitled to his opinion. But CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people.
The commentary was an example of CBS News’ new “free speech” segement which has been dominated by conservative voices, according to an analysis by Media Matters.
Transcript:
I’m saddened and shaken by the shooting at an Amish school today, and last week’s school murders.
When my son Dan was murdered on the sidewalk at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, I hoped that would be the last school shooting. Since that day, I’ve tried to answer the question, “Why did this happen?”
This country is in a moral free-fall. For over two generations, the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value.
We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. And I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including by abortion. Abortion has diminished the value of children.
Suicide has become an acceptable action and has further emboldened these criminals. And we are seeing an epidemic increase in murder-suicide attacks on our children.
Sadly, our schools are not safe. In fact, we now witness that within our schools. Our children have become a target of terrorists from within the United States.
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dang liberal media
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:02 amThe latest school shooting was at an Amish school.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:02 amThese events are horrific, and should not be used even by a grieving father, to leverage political or religious ideology.
Do these people realize that God was never actually IN our schools until the 1950s (when we fought those "damn godless Commies")?
I can't imagine what this guy has gone through -- I know that, as a parent myself, I would be devastated if something happened to my son. But to blame what's happening on evolution?
Wow ... just ... damn.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:02 amHang on one minute:
This guys is saying that the Amish don't have enough religion in their schools? Err, yeah, right and I am sure they are exposed to too much violent TV too.
Okay the guy suffered a loss which most of us can't quite imagine, but the fact is, if you are saying a shooting in a Amish school is due to there not being enough god in the classrooms, maybe, just maybe you are thick. Grieving father or not.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:04 amHuh? That's why I watch NBC.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:04 amI've always said, losing a loved one, as sad as it is, does not give you ownership of any issues.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:05 amand he used the phrase "emboldened these criminals." talking point-tastic. i'm sure abortion is the reason for mark foley's actions.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:06 amI saw it. I felt sorry for him. He is obviously in a permanent state of grief, or the shooting yesterday jarred some screws loose.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:08 amThis man has positively no idea what the hell he is talking about!!! Evolution is not "where the strong kill the weak". Try actually learning about evolution instead of using it as a boogeyman to blame all the world's problems on.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:09 amUgh, this wingnut makes me sick, using the death of his son to spew his hard right talking points. Disgusting.
America's Least Wanted
Just like any idiotic "free speech" it probably made more people shake their heads than say, "he's right." The tide has turned and if CBS News is behind the curve, it only puts them in a weaker position for the future.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:09 amWith this screed, the grieving father has sold-out any claim to sympathy for his plight from me.
His child was the victim of victims.
His (tacit? overt?) own philosophy of winners and losers--he's an Amreican capitalist, to the very corpse, i'll warrant--created the climate in his schools in which it was okay to degrade and humiliate kids who resisted conformist ideologies.
Screw him, and screw CBS for pandering to his Christo-fascism...
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:10 am.
Funny how he leaves out the starving poor, the homeless, living wages, etc. Ya know the things that drive people to abortions, murder, crime.
expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value
Quite a weird statement. Isn't god the strong who judges, kills and send to hell the weak. Who says evolution replaces god. Can't these people se that it can be considered part of his amazing work? To answer all these things with just religion is called fundamentalism. The thing we are fighting against.....supposedly.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:10 amYour right! Shut him up. Why should this man have free speech. After all he believes in GOD so his opinion should not be on the news. Put someone on the news who blames Republicans or Bush. Then the people on this website will be happy.
The guy is re-living his grief. Leave him and his opinions alone. Blame the vulture media for putting him on. The shove a microphone in the face of anyone in grief and say “How do you feelâ€. Pathetic.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:10 amI am sorry for this man's loss, and I understand that he needs to believe what he does to ease his pain, but that does not mean you give him a forum to blame this on the absence of God in the public schools.
This ties in nicely with the latest GOP talking point that the Foley incident is the result of too much tolerance of people's "lifestyles"...
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:11 amGuns don't kill people, but teaching evolution and abortion do. I guess he can become a new spokesman for the National Rifle Association.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:11 amwhen i heard the promos announcing katie, and heard mention of the new "free speech" segment, i thought "uh oh..."
if for no other reason than it's not news, it's opinion...
the only way to make this segment relevant is to have a "point-counterpoint" format, realtime, at the same time.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:12 amShorter Judd:
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:14 am
I'm opposed to prayer in school. When I was in grade school in the 1950's we said the Lords Prayer every morning. Unfortunately for me I did not belong to a mainstream Protestant church (cradle Catholic) and my version of that and the 10 commandments had some variations. The nuns in catechism class said it was a sin to pray with the Protestants, my mother said, just don't say the parts we don't say. Some of the other kids asked me why I didn't pray, one teacher chewed me out. One teacher used it as an opportunity to do a little lesson in comparative religion (God bless her). And I can't imagine what the one Jewish kid in the class felt during all of this. The values that should be taught in school are community, kindness, compassion. No religious stamp necessary.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:17 amyou're right, sir...if abortion had been made illegal and ID was taught in school your son would be alive today.
sucks he lost his kid, but open your eyes to the world, my good man..
jeezus.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:21 am...Blame the vulture media for putting him on...
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:21 amComment by Happy+Guy — October 3, 2006 @ 11:10 am
that's what this thread is about...
"CBS Turns Over News Broadcast..."
Hey now, we must not forget that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to Sunday School and them two rocket scientists that won the Nobel prize for Physics were actually testing our faith with that science stuff (they figured out a proximal timeframe for the Big Bang, both Americans!). All hail the American Taliban!
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:21 amI present the following NOT as my belief but as an alternative belief system that is just as valid as an opinion as this man's, which his grief has magnified:
Why does God let Christians be victimized and persecuted? They are in a moral free-fall, passing judgment on others in an idolatrous manner, making themselves into gods. They have abandoned his love for them, which he has commanded them to demonstrate to all. They have abandoned seeking the spiritual kingdom of God for the material and political world.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:21 amhttp://www.sabcnews.com/world/north_america/0,2172,135973,00.html
Lets see here, you have a suicidal maniac (So much for no more suicide attacks BTW) who goes to a school and shoots up a bunch of kids because of something that happened 20 years ago. Now here are my questions: Who would have a grudge against a Amish school from the age of 12? Who would have enough contact with the Amish to have a grudge against one of their schools?
In other words, what was the grudge?
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:22 am"But CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people." - Judd
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:23 am*******THANK YOU (!!) Judd, many naive people are under the impression that Progs enjoy the airing of all views - even those deemed by YOU to be "extreme". But savvy constituents KNOW better.....the only viewpoints die-hard Progs would like to see are THEIR own. (When you get a free moment, would you be so kind as to document how many school shootings there were between 1950 and 1980? Thanks much!)
WHAT!!!
The problem is de-evolution and not enough abortions!
TexasJuice
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:25 amI salute and support this person's right to make a complete fool of himself on national TV.
His suggestion that moral goodness is the exclusive byproduct of religion is really, really, really stupid.
And is his opinion on the latest shooting more valid than anybody else's because he lost a child at Columbine? Uhhh, no. It's not. CBS was just playing the ol' sensational card. And they look cheesy for it.
And if he believes that evolution is "where the strong kill the weak", then he really doesn't understand evolution at all. Capitalist societies (like his that he blindly praises with whatever stupid coloured ribbon he sticks on his car) are, in fact where the strong kill the weak.
Duh.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:25 amCould it be the Guns? No, I blame it on science and a womens right to chose. Give me a break!
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:25 amwtf!!! was this broadcast on CBS news with couric? that saccharine light-weight has chosen to provide a massive podium to those who espouse right-wing viewpoints and no one is speaking up about this? this is sick.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:27 am#16. katy, the problem with the point counterpoint format is this. For example when CNN does it, they find the strongest spokesperson they can for the pro-liberal view, then they find a moderately weak spokesman for the conservative view. some examples: Carville vs. Novak; Begala vs. Carlson (and later Bay Buccannan). Everybody does it: on Fox it is Hannity vs. Colmes
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:27 amWhat a bunch of morons!!!!
Say, wanna bet that this guy isn't a vegetarian?
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:27 amAnd I can’t imagine what the one Jewish kid in the class felt during all of this.
When I was in fifth grade, three Jewish boys were sent to the principal's office because they refused to sing Christmas carols.
Back on topic ... I'm sorry this man lost his son. But his leaps of illogic and lack of basic education have no place on the evening news.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:27 amI guess we should boycott Amish abortions? What a crock of crap these clowns foist on us!
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:28 amHe has suffered a terrible loss.
Can someone please call Ann Coulter to smear him?
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:28 amIf I recall correctly, one of the problems at Columbine was that worst bullies at that school were the cool Christian kids...
who showed their love for their fellow non-co-religionist students by making their lives a misery.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:29 am#4 Bruce Gorton:
Okay the guy suffered a loss which most of us can’t quite imagine, ....
Were you talking perhaps about grey matter?
He knows what he's doing. He's trying to use a tragedy for partisan political advantage. First thing that occured to him, I'm sure. How Republican of him.
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:30 amApparently, CBS made a decision to run to the right of Fox by hiring Katie Couric. Of course these big coporations move with glacial speed so they are stuck with this tactic even though the country is going to swing decidely liberal in about a month. Too bad for them.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:31 amAsk an African American about the moral pinnacle we reached during the 1950's.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:31 amMr. Rohrbough proceeded to blame recent school shootings on: 1) the teaching of evolution, and 2) abortion.
What a crock of crap. He said:
This country is in a moral free-fall. For over two generations, the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value.
We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. And I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including by abortion. Abortion has diminished the value of children.
Idiots.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:32 amYeah, let's review this one... it must be this jackass' understanding that Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Hitlter, Mao, Timothy McVeigh and company - we can add Bush to this list - had the most loving parents in the world but it was the liberal society and their ideas the corrupted them.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:34 amI'm loathe to have a go at this poor man. You know, the wingers never miss a chance to go apeshit about the Jersey Girls, and I'm not going to get mad at a guy whose son was murdered.
And I can find a point of agreement. This country is in moral free-fall, what with the legalization of torture, and suspension of the writ of habeas corpus for anyone the President designates as linked to terrorism.
Even if I can't agree with Mr. Rohrbough on the causes, I will agree that there's something profoundly wrong. And he ain't anti-American for saying so.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:34 amI'm not christian, but let the guy talk. I think the way it works is, if your idea makes the most sense, it will eventually be accepted. It probably makes less sense to appoint someone to decide what is to be expressed or repressed and then require compliance. Even if you don't like the debate of the day, have confidence in the process.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:35 amA lot of analysis says that abortion, far from devaluing children, has made the world much safer: http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/006073132X/sr=8-1/qid=1159889754/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3326382-1719107?ie=UTF8&s=books
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:35 amAmerica's conservative rightwing religous mentality for all to see. Boy it is embaracing but in lock step with katie and her msm culture of the brain dead.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:36 amStuff like this should tank their ratings if they are rated at all.
Yuck!
While I strongly disagree with what this man said, the fact is that he has the right to say it. Whether the CBS Evening News was the proper venue for voicing those opinions is another question entirely.
If the network wants to continue offering a "free speech" segment on their news program, they might want to consider prefacing it with a written or verbal disclaimer.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:37 amThis is absolutely par for the course. Once the wingers get a media outlet in their sights--and CBS has been a primary target since Nixon's enemies list--they never let up. Eventually the media outlet capitulates. ABC has slanted right for years. CNN gathered anti-Clinton material from Drudge, promoted the Swift Boat lies, and promotes Glen Beck as a nonpartisan voice of reason. Olberman's days at MSNBC are numbered--after all, Phil Donahue was canned at the time he was the top-rated presence on cable. CBS aims to disperse any heat on newbie Katie, thus Far Right propaganda in the name of "free speech." Hey, wasn't that kind of what America used to expect, and maybe all through a broadcast instead on ghettoized into one minute? Free speech?
Scanning the "news" last night, I noticed that the day's events in Iraq went almost completely unmentioned across the board. School shooting? Check. Page scandal? Lots of airtime. Condi and Rummy? Check and check. Giraffes, hippos, puppies and Bobby Brown? Check. Soldiers dying because the GOP has an election to win? Oops, no time left.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:37 amThe ranting of these freaks is like the screech on a broken record, on many many levels. The Party of Hate will disavow each of it's members as they self destruct. Guns and hate go so well together, the GOP will never let them go. The media could stop nurturing the talking heads as if every crazy despotic idea needs to be spread across our country as "free speech". They would have LOVED Hitler's schtick. He'd be on TV every night in this kind of atmosphere. He'd be a media darling! He'd be a bigger draw than Pat Robertson!
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:39 amAnother idiot that's confused morals and values with religious dogma. It's too bad he can't formulate his own judgements without having some institution or authority tell him what's right and wrong.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:40 am#24 Mighty Aphrodite:
THANK YOU (!!) Judd, many naive people are under the impression that Progs enjoy the airing of all views - even those deemed by YOU to be “extremeâ€.
Ummmmm, there's no reason to give every nutcase their 15 minutes; not enought time since the Big Bang for that luxury. But the point here -- which you conveniently missed -- is that he's getting his (rather strange) 'say', and that unopposed by anyone with a lick'o'sense. We do love free speech. How about a discussion with him (if he's really the most eloquent speaker for the RW bozos, which I hope is not the case) and someone like Barry Flynn?
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 amThe Gentleman is absolutely wrong. If the parents of the misguided youths that raided the school had chosen abortion the deaths would never have occured. My argument, while being facetious, makes as much sense as the arguments put forth by said Gentleman. The cause can be contributed to one thing only--lack of parental responsibility.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 amDontcha just love the "+" troll here, creating straw men like crazy in order to distract from the message? Nice way to win friends and influence people, +! I'm sure you've just won oodles of converts to the Pedophile Party.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 am...right. Because most criminal acts are committed because of abortion and the lack of god in the classroom.
Yet another 5 reasons to outlaw gun possession.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:42 amI saw this segment and I was shocked but not surprised. Bill Maher can't go on and talk about religion, but if you're a die hard Conservative you can touch on any topic you like. It seems that Liberals, if they appear at all, are limited to talking about bi-partisanship. What is interesting is that CBS also reported that this latest shooter was a regular church goer, hardly the type to be influenced by evolutionary science and a woman's right to choose. What I would like to see from the corporate media is how did this guy come about getting his guns? Were they purchased legally?
While I don't think anybody but the shooter can be held responsible, the media might have played a role by hyping these stories and inspiring copycats. You'd think that the poor guy might have blamed the NRA for making guns so easy to get. Then again, maybe he thinks that if all the students were armed, they could have shot the killer before he could shoot more than a couple of them.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:45 amgo pray about it. god hasn't answered the holiest so maybe you'll be the 'special' one. and what is it. only the republicons get a spot on t.v with their warped, insensitive, point of view.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:47 amJust remember that the far right has been in control of our country for over a decade, and if there is a lack of morality and values it goes right back to the lap of the far right.
Schools don't teach morality, PARENTS do, and to suggest that bringing prayer into school will somehow change what goes on in the home is a way of control, not a way to help our children become better citizens.
Simply put, as parents we are the first teachers our children have, our actions are how they learn, and if we don't do our job, that is where the problem is, and I say this as a parent of two children.
I am sorry that this man lost his child, my heart breaks for him, however he is so off the mark with what he says is the problem, he just doesn't understand.
Remember, the "red states" are those states that have the highest numbers of people going to church, they also have the highest divorce rates, the highest abortion rates, the highest teenage pregnancy rates, the lowest high school graduation rates, and on and on.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:49 am#24 Mighty Aphrodite:
When you get a free moment, would you be so kind as to document how many school shootings there were between 1950 and 1980?
The ol' post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, eh? Combined with a "shifting the burden of proof" for good measure (you want numbers, MA, go look
em up yourself!). No wonder MA here thinks this guy is just the cat's whiskers. Bet it burns her that those physicists got the Nobel for their work on the Big Bang, rather than this bozo for his brilliant insights into the workings of the universe....
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:50 amYou really have to wonder at what is happening to our society. Evolution causes the strong to kill the weak? No, it is untrammeled capitalism and the belief held by too many fundalmentalists that God shows his favor by bestowing riches and success on his few chosen. The government with its increasing abolition of the social safety net and embrace of the "ownership society" has instilled this perverted belief in social Darwinism in which wealth and power are the only measures of value and worth. The study of evolution teaches that species must adapt to their environment. Indeed, the success of the human race (up until now) results the ability of people to form together in societies. Mutual support and the strong helping the weak actually accounts for human domination over the earth. All we need to look at are those societies riven by ethnic and (all to often) religious strife to observe their poverty and their levels of violence.
Indeed, I believe that these shootings demonstrate the opposite. The concept that there are only winners and losers contributes to the helpless state and anger of many. We see a society in which the individual is classified by wealth, by religious orientation and political belief. We also see a society in which more people realize that they have little power or control.
1. The constant addition of governmental control over our lives: some can not die without the government intervening to extend life.
2. Abortion may take a potential life however the continuing war against abortion, contraception and sex lead too many to have children they can not afford to raise or support.
3. The individual becomes increasingly subject to the police power of the state. Do not use drugs (even the soft kind) or you may find it difficult to obtain college aid or maintain employement. Now we find that the government mandates that schools have mechanisms in place to search students on mere suspicion. We have seen strip searches and guns drawn with little or no discovery of weapons, drugs or stollen property.
4. The individual has no power against large corporate interests. In our society things go well while you have money. However, if you experience a financial reverse you will find just how powerless you are. Creditors will pile on penalties and fees making it impossible for you to ever recover. Bankruptcy will provide years and years of surfdom while you struggle to pay off a debt that will be many times what had actually been owed.
5. Large corporations increasingly take away your right to court (arbitration clauses placing you in an inconvient forum and limiting your legal rights), your ability to protect your job, your pension and ability to negotiate a decent living wage.
I could keep going all day. However, I realize that there is little to stop what is happening. I have always been dedicated to the law. Now I wonder if we have not become too law abiding, too much like sheep. Maybe the only thing that can save this country is some good old fashioned violence attacking those institutions that are strangling the individual.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:51 amYou really have to wonder at what is happening to our society. Evolution causes the strong to kill the weak? No, it is untrammeled capitalism and the belief held by too many fundalmentalists that God shows his favor by bestowing riches and success on his few chosen. The government with its increasing abolition of the social safety net and embrace of the "ownership society" has instilled this perverted belief in social Darwinism in which wealth and power are the only measures of value and worth. The study of evolution teaches that species must adapt to their environment. Indeed, the success of the human race (up until now) results the ability of people to form together in societies. Mutual support and the strong helping the weak actually accounts for human domination over the earth. All we need to look at are those societies riven by ethnic and (all to often) religious strife to observe their poverty and their levels of violence.
Indeed, I believe that these shootings demonstrate the opposite. The concept that there are only winners and losers contributes to the helpless state and anger of many. We see a society in which the individual is classified by wealth, by religious orientation and political belief. We also see a society in which more people realize that they have little power or control.
1. The constant addition of governmental control over our lives: some can not die without the government intervening to extend life.
2. Abortion may take a potential life however the continuing war against abortion, contraception and sex lead too many to have children they can not afford to raise or support.
3. The individual becomes increasingly subject to the police power of the state. Do not use drugs (even the soft kind) or you may find it difficult to obtain college aid or maintain employement. Now we find that the government mandates that schools have mechanisms in place to search students on mere suspicion. We have seen strip searches and guns drawn with little or no discovery of weapons, drugs or stollen property.
4. The individual has no power against large corporate interests. In our society things go well while you have money. However, if you experience a financial reverse you will find just how powerless you are. Creditors will pile on penalties and fees making it impossible for you to ever recover. Bankruptcy will provide years and years of surfdom while you struggle to pay off a debt that will be many times what had actually been owed.
5. Large corporations increasingly take away your right to court (arbitration clauses placing you in an inconvient forum and limiting your legal rights), your ability to protect your job, your pension and ability to negotiate a decent living wage.
I could keep going all day. However, I realize that there is little to stop what is happening. I have always been dedicated to the law. Now I wonder if we have not become too law abiding, too much like sheep. Maybe the only thing that can save this country is some good old fashioned violence attacking those institutions that are strangling the individual.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:51 amSounds like the Republican party.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:54 amMA, you're so funny. If the guy blamed it on his local church or jews would it still be okay for CBS to put him on the air as far as you are concerned? Your logic is deliberately foolish I think.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:54 amPerhaps it's the teaching of religious fanaticism that's to blame.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:55 amAnd CBS is owned by Viacom, a big-time Republican donor. Can we start screaming "conservative bias!" yet?
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:55 amTo quote Bono,
"is it getting any easier on you now
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:58 amyou've got someone to blame."
FWIW, CNN had some comment today on the Amish shootings, and talked about their pacifism. Said the voiceover (from memory, quote approximate): "They take the teachings of Jesus seriously." Touche! The voiceover went on to explain that some folks actually think that turning the other cheek and praying for your enemies and those that hurt you stands at the centre of what Jesus taught (rather than WWJB, for instance)....
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:59 amOh man. Its all the fault of those damn secular Amish and their liberal attitudes about sex and evolutionary theory.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:00 pmThis man suffered a great loss, and for that I am sorry. But to associate these rash of to abortion and evolution is sick, twisted, and outrageous.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:00 pmThe guy's entitled to his opinion, and I sympathize greatly that he lost his son in Columbine. But of all the people CBS could've picked to give a commentary, they chose him? Has CBS News become Fox News lite? I never thought I'd say this, but I'm starting to miss Dan Rather (or even Bob Schieffer)!
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:03 pmKatie Couric, your kinder, gentler Ann Coulter.
When they said she was taking over the Evening News I said that at least she couldn't be worse than Bob Schieffer. Well, I was wrong. As wrong as can be. Couric is worse than either of the others, she's scrapping FOX levels of pandering to the GOP. She is disgusting, her producers should be fired, CBS should buy her off and send her to cable where she is clearly headed anyway.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pmDon't know what kind of person I'd become if I lost my child to such a senseless act - I'm pretty sure I'd be even more anti-gun than I am now - as for blaming it on the lack of religion and emphasis on science - that's absurd, but then such a loss might make me say ridiculous things too - CBS are scum for exploiting his grief
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pmI will admit we'd all be better off if we lived by the tenets of the New Testament: Do unto others - love your nieghbor as you love yourself - turn the other cheek - judge not lest ye be judged... said the agnostic - these are rules I live by anyway - do Christians?
You know, I usually have the energy for some sort of sarcastic comment, but really, my reaction was "What on EARTH do these nimrods think they're doing?"
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pmThey teach evolution and abortion at Amish schools? And, what does thatb have to do with the screwed up milkman in his 30's who executed those little girls the other day?
This guy is an absolute disgrace.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:06 pmIf we still had the "Fairness Doctrine" someone could come on the next night and refute this Tom Delay (Delay blamed evolution, abortion, and liberals for Columbine) quoted bullshit. btw, anytime a wingnut whines about the "liberal media" say "well, lets bring back the Fairness Doctrine!". Shuts them up everytime.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:06 pm[...] Bobblehead cheerleader Couric is given the reins at a premier major news organization. As part of her “overhaul,” she has a “free speech” segment which has, to date, no progressives, liberals, or even Democrats I think. What she does have plenty of, however, are reactionary right wingers, bigots, Republicans, and, oh a guy who blames school shootings on the teaching of evolution and the continued existence of the practice of abortion. Last night, the CBS Evening News turned their broadcast over to a man named Brian Rohrbough, who lost his son during the Columbine massacre. Mr. Rohrbough proceeded to blame recent school shootings on: 1) the teaching of evolution, and 2) abortion. [...]
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:09 pmIt's all Darwin's fault!
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:10 pmi don't follow that wingnut's idea that "suicide has become acceptable". why does suicide's acceptability matter? why does the person committing suicide, in whatever situation, care what the people left alive think? acceptable to whom? to god? that seems like the only party capable of having any say in the matter (if you believe that nonsense).
incoherent garbage. i feel sad for this person's loss, but going insane with grief does not merit a national stage to spout incoherencies. what about coherent grievers that have made powerful points against the high and mighty, like Cindy Sheehan and the 9/11 widows?
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:13 pmI'm sorry for his loss, but he seems to have lost more than his son on April 22, 1999.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:13 pmuh...
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:14 pmi love how he criticizes schools and government for pushing religion out. i mean, it's not like this country was founded with the concept of seperation of church and state (including state run schools) was it? oh, wait...
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:15 pmI could not disagree with Mr. Rohrbough more but I am equally bothered by many of the comments here.
You can not fight the forces of ignorance by being ignorant yourself. Namecalling is no substitute for argument that is both rational and empathetic and it creates the kind of atmosphere that is partially responsible for the tragic school shootings.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:16 pmDid someone here really say that there weren't any school shootings between 1950 and 1980?
She must have forgotten about that young man in the tower in Texas with his rifle.
I swear, right wing fools are the stupidest Americans. I actually lived in a mid-southern Missouri town for a while, and I thought I'd drown in stupid before I ran screaming.
The air was clean and the view was nice, but Jeezus it was like living with cavemen.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:16 pmLosing a child does not give you the right to spout a bunch of foolishness that you may happen to believe and have it presented as fact.
I too lost a child. If I followed the logic presented by this man I would be very much in favor of abortion. If the person responsible had been aborted maybe my daughter would still be alive.
Grieving people say foolish things. Network television should not be presenting it in such a way to promote it. Grieving father or not, he's a fool.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:16 pmEvolution does not kill people. People kill people.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:19 pmSomebody should tell this clown that (A) if there was no abortion then there could very well be more crazy school-shooters as there would be more people being born...many in unfortunate circumstance or to parents who neglect them, (B) he may hate evolution but it is certainly a more pleasant thought (growing, learning, adapting and advancing) than his mindset of being constantly stuck and nobody can ever grow or change or learn anything.
Frankly, it is BS like this that is what is wrong with the world today. Idiots who think their opinions are infallible and that being wrong is an attack on their morals. So they simply harden their beliefs no matter how irrational or ill-thought or idiotic they may be and we end up with more vilence and anger as society becomes more and more closed minded and divided.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:21 pmGood thing God never inflicts suffering on the innocent and weak! Right, Job?
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:26 pmArnie notes, "How about a discussion with him (if he’s really the most eloquent speaker for the RW bozos, which I hope is not the case) and someone like Barry Flynn? Cheers, Arne Langstrom
*********Dear Arnie - Must have been a typo - God knows I make them myself - I think you might be referring to REVEREND Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. He is often found preaching to the choir from the pulpit of Sts. Proton and Neutron Religious Humanist Congregation for Social Just-us.
Have a great and productive day.....
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:28 pmOur schools are not safe. Not because evolution teaches that survival of the fittest governs the disappearance of species, but because anyone carrying firewarms can waltz into a school and blast away. God only knows how many more killings might have occured if it were NOT for abortion. It seem to me that raising unwanted, unloved children by a single parent with limited economic means is one of many ways to produce another serial killer. What is TRULY outrageous is how some conservatives will seize upon the personal tragedies of others to advance their own unreasonable, irrational agenda of total dominance.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:38 pm"Strong kills weak?" You mean unregulated Capitalism?
ba-dum-bum.
If evolution was about the strong killing the weak, mamals would have never evolved and the world would still be dominated by dinosaurs.
I wish opponents of evolution would at least learn what the theory states.
I feel for this guy -- I really do. And he has every right to air his grievances, just like the 9/11 widows that Ann Coulter blasted... But CBS should have given air time to counter his speech -- perhaps from another Columbine father. It was unbelievably unfair and his conclusions make absolutely NO sense to anybody with half a brain.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:39 pmA little thought experiment: would Perky Katie's producers have put someone in that segment who noted, however morally neutrally, that the one thing all school shootings have in common is guns?
I don't mind a CBS Wingnut Moment, properly labelled, because it introduces genuinely non-mainstream views to an audience that's likely to be shocked by them rather than embrace them.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:39 pmAre you guys disagreeing that this countries morals are going down hill? How can you disagree? Just look back 30-50 years ago and then look at the present. It is very obvious that this country has lost it's step. Abortion is becoming more acceptable, drugs are being used much more, and our school system is more caught up in the teacher's union then actually teaching our children math and english.
While I do not agree that teaching evolution is to blame, I do agree that our scholl system in general carries alot of the burden. We can't fire bad teachers, we don't provide the schools with the resources they actually need, the schools waste the resources they get, and our teachers are to busy with there Union to actually care about there job and the children they are hurting.
It is a very very sad thing to be sure. We need to kill the Teacher's Union ASAP. We then need double, if not triple, the saleries of the teachers. Make it very competitive. Fire all the average to bad teachers and replace them with the cream of the crop so to speak. Then simply bring our schools back into focus about what they should be teaching. Math, Science, English, and American History should be the primary focus.
Above all, we also need to teach our children how to be proper adults. I am not talking about religon either. Teaching children Logic, a Standard set of morals, and how to be proper parents would do alot of good for soceity. I am a true believer that we should honestly mandate some courses in philosophy. The study of Logic, Wisdom, and Morals helps a person in every other course they take as you are basically teaching them how to think critically about something.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 pmI don't suppose he asked God why he took his son?
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 pmIt's ironic that the recent shootings are because of what religion prevents us from talking about, sexual abuse. Because Christians want to keep sexual education and sexual discussion from happening sexual shame makes our young people more vulnerable targets to their abusers.
Some victums grow up to become abusers themselves. In this last incidence it seems that was the intended goal of the copy cat hostage situation. Moral absolutism is the prevention tool need here.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:45 pmAt least the Amish don't have to watch this...
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:46 pmYou can pry my copy of the 'Origin of Species' from my cold, dead hands...
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:48 pmmighty+dumb is under the impression that evolution
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:50 pmwas not taught in schools between 1950 and 1980. For a wingnut,
it MUST be the teaching of evolution that causes school shootings,
hence it MUST be that in the Golden Age there was no evolution
teaching, school curricula and textbooks notwithstanding.
Are you actually serious? 50 years ago, blacks had to drink at different water fountains and women rarely had a life outside the home.
Nostalgia for the non-existent "good ol' days" for conservatives will be their downfall.
Conservative rich white men sure do seem to love the idea of having all the power with only rich white men. They long for the days of Kings and Lords.
Too bad. America is waking up. People of true morality are standing up for what is right. And what is right is NOT stripping away rights for women and minorities while polluting the environment, having sex with children, and starting wars!
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pmKatie Couric just makes me want to vomit! CBS sucks too, anymore. I follow the tenets of science because it explains reality with known facts. That asshole that lost his son in the Columbine massacre seems to me to be the next loose cannon that will go to a school somewhere and start blasting away.
Sexual and mental repression are staples of the religious right and have contributed to numerous atrocities over the ages. By the way, I've accepted evolution most of my life and have never wanted to kill anyone. Just because someone had an abortion a thousand miles away from me hasn't enticed me to kill. These people are twisted beyond belief.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pmIt is common belief, for people of that school of thought, to think that without the ten commandments, morality is completely out the window. It's really interesting because I'm not religious, but I still follow most of the commandments. I do tend to covet my neighbor's goods (that is the cornerstone of capitalism afterall), and I don't care about the not worshiping idols blah blah blah, but I don't kill, steal, cheat, or anything of the sort. Why? Because I was raised by moral parents who taught me right from wrong without shoving the bible down my throat (they are religious, btw, but are also tolerant).
The lack of understanding of evolution is just PAINFUL, though. I wish "survival of the fittest" was never a buzz-phrase. It leads people to all sorts of strange definitions of "fittest." Usually, as in this case, assuming a predatory/prey paradigm of those who are strong survive better than those who are weak, which is furthest from the truth. Misquitos and cockroaches are damn easy to kill. But they survive through worse than we can.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:06 pm"...evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value."
This statement perfectly highlights the real problem. The religious right doesn't understand even the basic concepts of evolutionary biology. It is sad really. This man obviously didn't pay attention when he was in school.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:06 pm[...] CBS sure wasn’t wrong when they named their guest segment “Free Speech”. Think Progress has the video from Brian Rohrbough’s appearance last night. Rohrbough tragically lost his son during the Columbine shootings and he used his air time to blame all the school shootings recently on the teaching of evolution and abortion. [...]
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:09 pmMy jaw dropped when I heard that on CBS. What a crock.
First, most of these shooters come from homes where guns are central to their very existence, just the opposite of what this nutjob is saying. The Columbine shooter fit that exact pattern as well. No sense in bothering this nutjob with facts.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:10 pmHey, Cecil, abortion becoming more acceptable is not a moral problem. Drug use on the rise is not a moral problem, and your canard about teachers and unions is bullshit. Teachers themselves have little to do or say about the union, and your solution of trashing the union then paying the teachers more is really stupid, since the only reason teachers are making anywhere near a living wage is the union. Your program sounds very much like what the immoral Mark Foley Republicans want to put in place.
And Mighty + Afro is also brain-dead. You people have read no history, obviously.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:12 pmMay 17, 1927, Bath, Michigan.
So much for the peaceful past . . . .
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:16 pmSo me suggesting that we pay teachers 2-3 times more is a bad idea? How about we simply pay any teacher that isn't in the Union 2-3 times more. Once we get rid of that horrid union, we will then be free to make education competitive again. We should be able to fire the average to poor teachers. We should be able to give pay raises to teachers based on there performance, not how many years they have put in. Currently, the Unoin is preventing us from giving our children the education they deserve and it is very sad.
In my home town, I see that our highest paid teacher is the Band Director simply because of the fact he has been there a very long time. I also see that we have a 2nd year Math and a 2nd year Science teacher that the town says are the best teachers in our school district. Sadly, they are paid the least and are going to be laid off because of budget cuts. This is all the fault of the teachers union.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:25 pmPersonally, I have no problem with them putting this guy on as long as they are willing to air the opposite point of view at some other date. It sounds like, if Bill Maher is to be believed, that they are not willing to do that. Apparently it is ok for the 'Free Speech' topic to be about religion as long as the angle is that there isn't enough religion in our lives.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:32 pmComment by Silvio Levy , ronjazzz....
********I apologize if you were unable to connect the dots in my earlier post. Apparently I gave you too much intellectual credit - my mistake. My point in asking a recitation of 30 yrs. of school shootings from 1950 - 1980 was NOT a discussion of evolution or abortion per se. It was a notation that many areas of personal morality have slithered into the morass promoted by progressives ("if they're gonna have sex,
show 'em how"..), anarchists (contempt for ALL social institutions) and nihilists ("I'll do what I WANT when I WANT...")
You might note a very telling study which is most interesting - the notation of the MOST oft-cited problems reported by high school teachers in 1954 - gum chewing and running in the hall.....
When dad started trading in mom for the secretary and the divorce rate skyrocketed exponentially, when kid time was reduced to "quality time", when kids misbehaved and parents provided the alibis, when parents started "reasoning" with toddlers, when mom whined she wasn't "fulfilled", when those dating are assumed to be sleeping with their latest squeeze.....ALL of this is the moral decline promoted by the licentious.....
In short, parents who attempt to teach their children right from wrong are ridiculed for being "rigid". How pitiful.....
And to back up your "argument" ronjazz calls opponents "brain dead". Veeeerrrrryyyyy persuasive, ron..........................
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:33 pmI couldn't believe seeing this guy on CBS news yesterday. He seems to be saying, among other things, that religion is the answer. To counter that argument, all one has to do is to look at George Bush and how Bush apparently uses his religion to make decisions to wage war, kill, torture, lie, spy etc.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:36 pmSo, Darwin publishes his Origin of Species in what? 1859?
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:37 pmBut it only gets into U.S. Public Schools in the 1950's?
'Fraid not.
"Mr. Rohrbough suffered a great loss and is certainly entitled to his opinion. But CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people."
Sounds just like Cindy Sheehan's qualifications.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:45 pmIsn't it amazing how the facts that violence rates increase dramatically when the US is waging war ... violence begats violence ...
unfortunately there are those who will accept as gospel the rightwing nuts analysis (and it seems CBS is doing that more and more) - they are probably the same ones who fogive those predators who prey on children and abuse their postion and power to get their needs met.
and it is amazing that no one mentions the fact that guns are so readily available ...
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:52 pmI thought it had something to do with bowling ...
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:56 pmCan someone get this up on youtube?
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pmClearly this man is deeply troubled and CBS, by using him for their "Free Speech" spot are using him and other commentators to placate the far right.
CBS knows full well that what this man is saying doesn't merit time on national TV, they know he's not rational.
Say what you will about Dan Rather, when he was anchor, this sort of back door propaganda would never appear have made it on to the Evening News.
Speaking of propaganda, on NBC last night the reporter hinted that the Democrats who knew about Foley and withheld the info until right before the election. Pure BS.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pm"This ties in nicely with the latest GOP talking point that the Foley incident is the result of too much tolerance of people’s “lifestylesâ€â€¦"
Yet it seems that the worst immoral outrages, child abuse, domestic help slavery, pedophilia etc come out of the conservative sections of society, the same group that endlessly chuckles over bubba's bitch in jail jokes.
The man lost a son at Columbine, he'll never forget, but how about targetting the mentality that gave the perpetrators the tools, or even the thought to carry out their murders? Talk to any chemistry class at any school level, making bad things is the focus, actually (not) doing it is what separates the immature from the growing up.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:58 pm"This ties in nicely with the latest GOP talking point that the Foley incident is the result of too much tolerance of people’s “lifestylesâ€â€¦"
Yet it seems that the worst immoral outrages, child abuse, domestic help slavery, pedophilia etc come out of the conservative sections of society, the same group that endlessly chuckles over bubba's bitch in jail jokes.
The man lost a son at Columbine, he'll never forget, but how about targetting the mentality that gave the perpetrators the tools, or even the thought to carry out their murders? Talk to any chemistry class at any school level, making bad things is the focus, actually (not) doing it is what separates the immature from the growing up.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:58 pmDidn't Dan Rather make up news stories to hurt Republicans? Seems like he himself did some back door propaganda.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:01 pmCecil, et al.---
The reason our public school system is in such peril is the NCLB Act, which gives teachers no creative leeway to address the diverse learning types that are in our schools. It's George's fault that school reform is quickly circling the bowl.
When you say "we" need to triple salaries and get rid of the union, who do you mean? Who is "we"? Teachers are considered civil servants. They can't even strike. No one is looking out for them but the union.
And by bringing this topic up, I am not sure, ultimately, what your point is, yet I will continue.
I do like your idea about some sort of manditory morals class. Unfortunately, the curriculum is written by people that have never been educators, so I doubt the class would be that useful until the teachers are given back the freedom they need and deserve to teach in most classrooms, which are becoming increasingly diverse. And that freedom will HOPEFULLY come once Bush is out of office and his mess is being cleaned up and NCLB is kicked or reformed seriously.
Sorry for the rant, yall.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:01 pmActually, it's worse than thought
Watch Couric's intro again, she says specifically that, because of the horror of the Amish Shootings, CBS is suspending it's "Free Speech" segment in favor of Rohrbaugh's views as the parent of a school murder victim
So, because CBS didn't want the "Free Speech" segment to politicize the shootings, they gave the airtime to a parent who blamed evolution and abortion for his son's murder
Sure, that makes sense, somewhere anyway
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:16 pmWhat Mr. Rohrbough is trying to say is that the degradation of moral values via the media(think MTV), games, and ideas promoting self free will at the cost of innocent lives, etc.. within the last few years has led to higher crime rates, drugs, etc..
I am apalled at the lack of basic understanding of Christianity in these forums.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:18 pmI am very sorry for his loss but this man is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and should be in therapy. He needs the help of professional psychiatric social workers, not neo-con fanatical Christian fascists. Anger management would also be very helpful!
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:21 pmKit,
Funny you should say that, I was actually pleasantly surprised to see how few people had jumped on the "hey, here's why we should ban all gun ownership" bandwagon.
The reality is that mass killings certainly happened before humanity developed projectile weapons; getting rid of guns wouldn't keep people from killing people, but it would make it a lot easier for the criminally insane to make victims of all of us.
You'll never pass a law or create a control that prevents an insane maniac from doing what he's going to do--such laws just make it that much harder for us to protect ourselves when they do go homicidally crazy.
Guns seem to be the only issue where people on our side of the aisle want to deny a freedom that 99% of the public exercises lawfully because of the misdeeds of a few. Very un-democratic, and un-progressive to think that way.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:24 pmBill Maher said that we was to go on the "Free speech" segment, but he wanted to talk about religion. CBS told him that was out of bounds and sent him a list of acceptable topics. Maher, as you probably know, is a nonbeliever.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:32 pmSURE OKAY. SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS BUT YOU'RE WRONG!!!!! YOU SHOULD PREACH TO THE PARENTS OF THE TWO BOYS WHO KILLED YOUR SON. WHY DIDN'T THEY LOCK THE GUNS AWAY???
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:38 pmHe's no different than Cindy Sheehan, both saying crazy things and insulated by their status as the parent of child killed in unfortunate circumstances.
Hopefully, the Right would make this guy their spokesperson the way the Left lionized Sheehan. Please leave him be -- it's okay to let him say his thing, but don't turn him in a cause celebre.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:40 pmIf time travel existed, I wonder if he would sign-up for retroactive abortion of the killers of his child?
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:42 pmShorter Brian Rohrbough:
"Charles Darwin and Margaret Sanger murdered my son."
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:45 pmI disagree with most of his points. But I think he might be right about our failure to teach our children values. Whether this is supposed to happen in school or at home or both is another discussion.
I certainly agree with the airing of these views. They represent those of many, many Americans. I just don't happen to be one of them.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:49 pmJust a quick note between all the flaming; The study of evolution didn't end with Darwin's first edition of Origin (see Kropotkin's Mutual Aid (free download here) for contrast to the above quote).
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:53 pmi really am sorry for his loss. i cannot imagine what it must be like to lose a child... especially so violently.
that being said, to honestly argue that the teachings of evolution (or should we say history based on fact) is the cause of our moral dilemma in the country is plain ignorant. i'd love to hear his point of view on how religious teachings had brought humankind to a state of peace and euphoria before the evolutionists came along and mucked it all up. seriously, are the people that tout this honestly arguing that if we strictly take the teaching of evolution out of our schools... we'll have safe schools? Please.
i'm all for free speech... and this man is welcome to his ignorant opinions. now how about a dissenting viewpoint CBS?
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:53 pmBath Township, Michigan - 1927 -- Worst mass-murder attack on a school predates everything he complains about by decades.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:56 pmThe bible says that God knows the time and place of the death of all people. This boys death was part of God's plan. Blame God.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:58 pmCecil,
I am certain that one of those underpaid union teachers tried THEIR best 30-50 years ago to teach you the difference between their, there,and they're.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:01 pm#84 Mighty Aphrodite:
Dear Arnie - Must have been a typo - God knows I make them myself - I think you might be referring to REVEREND Barry Lynn
Yes, indeed. I thought I posted a correction but it looks like it never went through. I assume your "Arnie" is also a typo, eh?
The reason I mention him is that he's no stranger to this "Evilution is the spawn of Satan" type of debate. IOW, he knows something about the actual subject, and could set this schmuck straight on some of his misconceptions (so to speak) concerning evolution (and religion, for that matter).
Nice ad hominem/"straqw man" attack there on the Reverend Lynn, BTW. I do notice that outside of that, your reply was bereft of substance....
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:03 pm"Do these people realize that God was never actually IN our schools until the 1950s (when we fought those “damn godless Commiesâ€)?"
Are you serious ??? Look at your history books , GOD had ALWAYS been part of public education until recent history where progressive secularism and political correctness has run amok. The intent of our founders was religious freedom.. ie.. no GOVERMENT sanctioned religion... not a society totally free from religious influence.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:07 pmI do not agree entirely with Mr. Rohrbough. The teaching of evolution has added very little to the moral decay of society, but to suggest that CBS should not have aired his views ???!!! , They have no problem airing views coming from extremists on the left. Why shouldn't they provide a little contrast from time to time ???
#88 Cecil Gartner:
Abortion is becoming more acceptable, drugs are being used much more, and our school system is more caught up in the teacher’s union then actually teaching our children math and english.
Wow. Three false statements in one sentence. Sadly ernough, it's no world record.
Cheers,
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:08 pmI understand grief is a terrible emotion and can make you think of all sorts of crazy things...you can see it on both sides. This gentleman who lost his son and Cindy Sheehan who lost hers.
I say this next part enitrely tounge in cheek though, in jest.
At least video games are safe now.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:09 pmDavid B., have you met and spoken with Cindy Sheehan? If not, perhaps you should read some of her essays? Maybe you'll learn something. And what exactly do you mean by "lionize"? Admire? Beleive? Support? Well, yes, I do. She is speaking out against what most Americans are now coming to realize is a lie and crime.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:09 pmBTW, this guy is proof that the right-wing media is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
What is missing from the US schools IS EDUCATION, not religion:
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:10 pmAmazing. I've read most of the posts about this fella. He didn't remotely say what many of you claim. He points out that:
1. Morality in this country has been on the decline for years (since the 50's). Would anyone really argue that point? Does it matter that he believes that it stems from a reduction in the value of religion in this society?
2. I disagree that God wasn't in schools until the 1950's. Take a look at school books from well before that.
3. Disagree all you like that abortion is or is not a good thing. The simple truth is that more and more, there are young individuals who assign little or no value to life. Witness the increased terrorist attacks, increased under-18 violence, increased under-aged drinking, etc. It holds up his idea that life has been devalued. It doesn't matter why you think it's so. It remains true.
4. Evolution teaches that less-resilient strains yield to stronger, more reslient ones. It's not inconsistent to suggest that "strong kills weak" in that model. One has only to examine wildlife to see that framework in action. The real question here is whether by our increase in the teaching of the "science" of evolution, we have inadvertently suggested to our youth that strong does indeed, kill the weak.
5. One can't seriously suggest that our society is tending more toward "conservative" or "right-wing" when:
a) There is a steady increase in the incidence of same-sex marriage.
b) You can't put a creche at a public place, but a symbol of some other
religion is considered perfectly acceptable.
c) The ten commandments must be removed from a public location, while
the daily call-to-worship of another belief is defended in court.
d) What was once acceptable on tv, in movies, and on the radio 20 years
ago is now second-nature.
e) You can wear a t-shirt in high school that extols death in viedo games,
etc., but another student can be sent home for wearing a t-shirt that
asks what Jesus would do.
No, the trend has simply been torward a more liberal society. Show me a case where you are less-free to do what you want, if you happen to be non-religious, and then try to make the same claim if you happen to be more religious. Some of it has been good. But, it's absolutely absurd to criticize someone because they bemoan the loss of former values on the basis of religion. Facts remain facts, whether the motivation for the argument is religious or not.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:11 pmOctober 3rd, 2006 at 3:12 pm
Hey, C.J name two 'extremist(s) on the left' whose views have been aired on CBS. Just two. And they have to be as far to the left as Rohrbough is to the right.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:22 pmI think it's sad that people accuse someone of being a moron because he can find a direct link between removing a standard for moral behavior from our schools and the immoral behavior we witness now. Sad, but very telling.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:23 pmToo much network news, that's the problem.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:28 pmhe can assume a direct link between removing a standard for moral behavior from our schools and the immoral behavior we witness now
There, typo fixed.
All anyone has to do is 1: demonstrate an increase in "immoral" behavior. 2: demonstrate that this increase is caused by (rather than coincident to) some other event-such as teaching evilution.
First of course, you'll have to achieve #1 before anyone can be bothered to look at #2. Bad news, crime stats peaked 25 years ago, and went down after that. Then you'll have to carefully define "immoral" if you aren't willing to use crime stats.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:30 pmThis is just tasteless. It's not the right time to stuff your wacko medieval fantasies down everyone's throats. Hey, your son may have died but that doesn't excuse your attempt to threaten women's health and throw society into your Christian dungeon.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:31 pmSo Bill Maher can't go on CBS and discuss religion, but this whackjob can?
What's up with that?
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:33 pmWe all are sinners. We all need one thing. Jesus.
He is the Truth. The Only Truth.
Just reading through all of you comments it is obvious that just the name of God hurts your ears and angers you. Thank about that. Why is it?
Don't close your doors. He is knocking.
God Bless
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:37 pmI am fine with some of you saying you don't want to hear about this and moral behavior, as long as you can say the same things for Cindy Sheehan.
If CBS let Sheehan broadcast her extreme views, would you say the same thing? And we are not talking about being anti-war being extreme, thats not being extreme-its her particular expressives of being extreme and the offense she causes marines in the military right now. How does this strike you if it came up:
"Ms. Sheehan suffered a great loss and is certainly entitled to his opinion. But CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people.
The commentary was an example of CBS News’ new “free speech†segement which has been dominated by conservative voices, according to an analysis by Media Matters. "
Also, please cite some examples of domination of CBS by "conservatives." The only station more liberal than CBS is NPR. Dan rather went out of his to make documents as fake as Paris Hilton seem legimiate and lost his job for it.
Good try, but piece of crap article and you were lucky you got your chronies to get it onto Digg. Doubt we'll meet again.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:38 pmWe all need one thing. Jesus
And food.
Well, all right, food . . .
And sleep.
Yeah, sleep too . . .
And sex, don't forget the sex!
Yes, yes, all right, can we get back to . . .
Ooooh, Ooooh, I know, air, we need air!
(with apologies to Monty Python and the Judean People's Front)
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:40 pmDale+Austin: The question you raise very pointedly solidifies my argument: If one person needs to ask another to define 'immoral' then there is no standard to which they both can turn. Therefore, all of this is senseless talk until we can agree on some standard of what is right and wrong. In the same way, any talk of right in wrong in schools is senseless until we can agree on a standard. The standard has been abolished and man is left to his basest desires. I believe the man that killed all those children was wrong because I know what right and wrong is. You, however, cannot say he was wrong. By asking me to define "moral" you have shown that you do not have that definition. No definition=no standard. No standard=no moral law. No moral law=no moral lawgiver. No moral lawgiver=no God. I think as distraught as this man was, he made a very logical assertion, and so far I've seen no one debunk him; I've only seen senseless words.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:42 pmIf you tell me what to think, I'll tell you where to go...
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:44 pmDavid:
I do, in fact, say the murderer was wrong. I don't happen to think replacing god with evolution in our classrooms has squat to do with it. I know that asserting that it did is lacking intellectual/factual/scientific honesty.
So, we've agreed then that murdering schoolchildren is immoral. There is your standard. Now, show how murdering school children is in any way caused by "evolution replacing god in the classroom." (I'll give you a free pass on the idea that god has been replaced with evolution)
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:58 pmDale+Austin: You have said that murder is wrong. I believe you are right about this. However, you have still not given me a reason that you believe so. If you believe in evolution (and particularly an atheistic theory of evolution) then you have no basis outside of what "feels" wrong. The problem here, however, is that some people think it "feels" perfectly fine. How would you argue that it is wrong? If you use words like 'good' or 'beneficial' then you must go back and define those words and give a reason for them as well. The culprit is not specifically the teaching of the evolutionary theory or abortion. Those are symptoms of the ideology that is now being fed to children in schools. The ideology of which those are symptomatic is that there is no basis of right and wrong, that everything is relative, and that there is either no God or that he does not care, therefore we cannot go to him for an answer. Please define why you believe that murder is wrong.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:04 pmThis guy is just another crazy religious nutbag in America. Who gives a shit that his kid died, I don't feel bad, in the time it is taking me to type this hundreds of children world wide were killed. This guy is using his son's death to get his crazy points of view on national television, this man wants to blame lack of god causes these acts of violence. Since "god" is responsible for more deaths than any other cause ever in existence, I say he needs to read a non fiction book and put down his bible.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:12 pmDavid;
By asking me to define “moral†you have shown that you do not have that definition.
By asking me to define “good†you have shown that you do not have that definition. See, David, it works both ways. If my request for a definition means I don't have the concept, then so does yours.
The problem here is that there is a cause and effect assertion has been made which fails, first to define the terms sufficiently well that all can agree on them, and secondly to demonstrate post hoc ergo propter hoc.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:13 pmDale+Austin: You glanced over part of my previous comments. I stated that I did have a definition to turn to. And I don't think it will come as any surprise to you that my definition comes from the Bible. Before you shrug me off as a religious nut, I would point out that I have simply made logical assertions thus far, and you still have not produced for me an answer. I have stated that the removal of a moral basis for right and wrong has caused a moral breakdown. This is not a far-fetched statement. Proof is not difficult to come by. Statistically, children from broken homes are much more likely to become criminals when they get older. This is not an excuse, but it is one of many very clear evidences of the point.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:21 pmSatistics aren't kept for what you ask but in 1927 an anti-tax wingnut blew up a school in Bath, Michigan killing 45 people, mostly children, and wounding 58 others. I guess the Scopes Monkey Trial made him do it.
In 1956 Billy Ray Prevette, 15, killed his favorite teacher and wounded two others at Maryland Park Junior High in North Carolina.
In 1959 Paul Oregon killed 6, including himself and his son, at Poe Elementary School in Houston, Texas.
In 1960 Katie McCoy killed an ex-boyfriend at the Dobose Intermediate School in Alice, Texas with a .22 shot to the neck.
In 1966 Charles Whitman killed 15 people and wounded 31 others acting as a sniper at the University of Texas in Austin.
Also in 1966 David Black killed an administrator at Grand Rapids High School in Minnesota and seriously wounded another stident.
In 1968 State Troopers killed three students and injured 29 others at South Carolina State College at Orangeburg. Civil rights caused this one.
In 1970 National Guardsmen opened fire on students at Kent State in Ohio, killing four and wounding nine others.
In 1974 honor student Anthony Barbaro barracaded himself in a third floor classroom of his high school in Orlean, New York and killed three people with a rifle. Apparently listening to Jesus Christ Superstar caused this one.
In 1975 Michael Slobodian, 16, opened fire in the cafeteria of the Centennieal Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario Canada, killing two and wounding thirteen before taking in own life.
Also in 1975 in Ottawa Canada Robert Poulin, 18, opened fire at Pope Pious X High School with a sawed off shotgun killing one and wounding five before killing himself. Poulin was also responsible for the rape-murder of a 17 year old student, Kim Rabot" whose nude body was found chained to a burning bed in Poulin's basement. Damned evolutionists.
In 1976 Edward Alloway, a custodian, shot and killed seven people at Calefornia State University at Fullerton.
In 1977 a student, Ricky Lopez, killed his principal at the Consolodated School of Whitharral claiming the "Devil" made him do it. Lopez was released from custody on his 18th birthday.
In 1978 Stuart Perrock, 14, shot and killed another 14 year old boy with whom he had been arguing at Hays Junior High School in St. Albans, West Virginia. Perrock was released from custody on his 18th birthday and changed his name to Stuart McCallister.
Also in 1978 at Everett High School in Lansing, Michigan 15 year old Roger Needham shot and killed fellow student Bill Draher. Needham was convicted of first degree murder as a juvenile and was released in 1981. He earned a Ph.D in mathematics and in 1993 he was teaching at City College in New York. Apparently Nazis were to blame for this one.
Again in 1978, this time at Murchison Junior High School in Austin, Texas, John Christian, 13, son of LBJ's former Press Secretary, George Christian, shot and killed his teacher, Wilbur "Rod" grayson, Jr., with a rifle. Clearly the Democrats are responsible for this one.
In 1979, Brenda Spencer, opened fire at the Cleveland Elementary School with a rifle she had been given for Christmas by her father, killing two adults and wounding eight children and one police officer. Apparently Sir Bob Geldorf is to blame for this one. Plus it brings up the interesting question - Who Would Jesus Shoot?
These are just a few. You could find more through a search of the New York Times Indexes but this is all the research I'm going to do for free.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:21 pmDavid;
You do not have a defintion to turn to. You have a source-an authority. We just may be misunderstanding each other here. When I ask for a definition of "immoral" I'm asking for an act, specifically, so that we can trace its prevelance and test it against an assertion of cause. The authority for it is immaterial. So, I can assert that the increase in murder (we do share a defintion of murder don't we?) is related to the increasing usage of cell phones. In order for my assertion to have substance, I must first demonstrate that murders are increasing, that cell phone usage correlates to that increase, there is no other correlation (increase in poverty for instance-or a change in the way murders are reported by police) and that there is a plausible mechanism. Folks engaged in the "moral freefall" assertion tend to skip over these things.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:33 pm[...] Think Progress » CBS Turns Over News Broadcast To Man Who Blames School Shootings on Teaching Evolution and Abortion Keep in mind that this post is my opinion and that you do not have to agree with anything I say. Also keep in mind that I do not really care if you agree with me. I am also free to have my own opinion about things. And I do have an opinion on this subject. [...]
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:38 pmSo, a grieving parent like Sheehan has an unquestionable right to proclaim endlessly in the media that her son died for a poor cause, but this father needs to be questioned for his "one-time" exposure to the media limelight because he happens to feel that there are certain moral issues in society that have factored in the devaluation of life, leading some to act out violently against others?
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:43 pmDale+Austin: Saying that the authority (who sets the definition of moral and immoral) is immaterial is difficult to comprehend. It would be as though you received a note that said "Don't eat raisins ever again, they will kill you" and you decided it's not important to find out who said (the authority is immaterial) you just decided you weren't going to follow it. Wouldn't it make a difference if that note came from a doctor who just discovered that raisins have started to kill people worldwide? I have provided for you a correlation in my last comment, you have still never provided for me substance. You can't say something is wrong without having a basis for it being wrong. It would be as though I said "cars are bad." If you questioned me and asked "why are cars bad?" it would not be sufficient for me to reply, "I don't need a reason, they just are." Anyway, I have enjoyed our conversation, but I must go. I appreciate being able to discuss and debate this openly and maturely. Thank you very much, and please continue to consider these things.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:50 pmJust one of many reasons why I refuse to watch info-tainment shows like this...
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:51 pmSilly me. I thought that the two shooters were the ones who were responsible for Columbine.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:01 pm[...] We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. And I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including by abortion. Abortion has diminished the value of children. Now, I’m no economics major, but from what I remember, limited resources derive their market value from a number of factors, including how many of them are on the market. So if there are fewer children (via abortion) wouldn’t that raise the inherent value of the remaining children, insted of diminishing it? [...]
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:11 pmI disagree with so much in this speech. Social Darwinism, the idea that the strong rule because they are inherently greatest and have the power and right to do whatever they wish to their "inferiors," is a severely twisted interpretation of evolutionary theory.
Abortion has nothing to do with child murders, and I don't know how even pro-lifer can equate the destruction of an unborn child with the molestation and murder of several teenage girls, no matter whether you believe abortion is a sin.
The so-called "epidemic" of school shootings is nothing of the sort. Granted, it has seen a surge recently, but I personally believe that the Amish shooter is probably a copycat attack, and an epidemic needs longer than a week to take root in any case.
Finally, it is not the place of the government - and, by extension, the schools - to dictate morality; that is the role of the family and the community. Suppose, for sake of argument, that the leader of an apocalyptic cult were elected president. Would it be right if it were then taught in schools that the world would end within the year? Even if you take into account the fact that a majority of Americans are Christian, that still gives no reason to teach Christianity in schools. Those that are Christian would already be receiving that instruction, and those that are not should have their right not to believe respected.
This speech represents everything I find at fault with the radical Christian right.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:11 pmI bet this guy and the shooter had more in common than he thinks.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:13 pmThe bottom line is, this guy is blaming the Amish shooting on lack of God and presence of abortion, but the shooter was a Christian family man active in his religion. In fact according to his suicide note, the guy admits being angry at God because his wife miscarried a few years ago. He also allegedly admits that he has molested children in the past and was afraid he would do so again. Score one for Christianity, only that religion could produce such a morally upstanding individual. So yeah, what the guy is saying is completely without base and doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't belong anywhere near a news program. Talk about irresponsible media.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:21 pmThe killer in the Amish school situation was a devout christian who went to church every sunday. Hey, wasn't the BTK killer ALSO a devout christian that was a deacon in his church? Do you think David Koresh believed in evolution?
Some people are just messed up in the head, but you don't see anyone on TV complaining about these people's Christianity, do you?
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:21 pm#3- Unholy+Moses,
That's just NOT true. It's true of the POA, but not of "schools."
At one point, the Bible was taught in school rigorously (but were they public schools? they were the only schools), especially before the civil war. After that, people had their fights with public religion etc, after the 14th amendment. The same kind of debates we STILL have. The larger the public school system grew the more fights there were about it all, especially since there were now Jews, etc in public schools. The 1940s saw a few Supreme Court cases about prayer in school and things like that.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:26 pmYou can pry my Bible from my cold dead hands...
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:27 pmHe did get one thing right-- the people shooting up schools are terrorists. So where are the anti- terrorist Republicans on all of this? Oh, yeah-- these guys are all white, so they aren't the terrorists we're after. Sorry.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:42 pmThat doesn't make sense. The union wouldn't exist if wages were that good. The point of unionization is to better working conditions, benefits, retirement, and wages for employees of a particular profession, by organizing all workers into a single group that has power to influence the management.
Just going out and saying "hey increase the wages if unions are gone!" may sound good if you believe all the anti-union rhetoric spread by the conservatives over the past decades, but it just doesn't work out that way. If the teacher's union was gone tomorrow, within a few years, wages would NOT increase, benefits would be slowly (but consistently) eliminated, and teachers would get an even shorter end of the stick than they do now.
It's what's happening in my industry right now (IT). And we have no representation... And despite a pretty middle-road to left-leaning average for IT workers, they mostly see unions as a way to earn money without working. Shooting ourselves in the foot? Yup.
I don't recommend other industries follow our lead.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:48 pmWill CBS and Katie Couric allow the other parents (presumably none blame abortion and evolution) one minute of free speech or does Katie and CBS pick the one "Columbine parent" with the most Right wing view to be on its show.
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:09 pmWill CBS and Couric allow the other 95% plus of parents with presumably differing views their "free speech" or do Couric and CBS deliberately seek out the most right wing view one can find and only give that view free speech under the guise of "Columbine parent."
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:11 pmTeacher's unions are illegal in my state (Georgia). It's partly why teachers in the South are the lowest paid in the country. Also why they are the least enlightened.
Some people are just messed up in the head, but you don’t see anyone on TV complaining about these people’s Christianity, do you?
Comment by Jake — October 3, 2006 @ 5:21 pm
Give me a microphone. I'd love to call these people out on their hypocrisy. They've gotten too arrogant and too powerful and too ignorant. It's why our country is ranked 7th in education - and Canada is ranked #1 - because some idiots actually take their Bibles literally while dismissing generations of scientific evidence, facts and validation. Emotion over reason should be their motto. "How's that working out." Should be our reply.
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:15 pmSending our youth to die for oil and greed has diminished the value of our children. I'm sick to death of these crazies that refute science, f*cking science!!!!! They should all be rounded up, given a gun and sent to the middle east to fight the other religious crazies. Maybe they'll wipe each other out and the rest of us can live in peace. One can only dream......
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:30 pm[...] This just in !!!!! Columbine dad Brian Rohrbough gets a chance to talk about the tragedy of the Amish village shootings and gets a few shots in on all of society’s ills, as he sees them. Evolution and abortion are to blame. This country is in a moral free-fall. For over two generations, the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value. [...]
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:37 pmI dunno - I'm a 'rabid' liberal and I really don't hate this new 'op ed' feature on the nightly news the way you all seem to. The CBS "free-speech" zone has guests from both the right and the left (& in between).. haven't read Media Matters article cited but from what I've seen both sides do get their say. I thought it was a mistake for this guy to label these murders as "terrorist" attacks, or to posit that science teachers are to blame for all brutal homicides comitted domestically (as these are patently absurd), but one should consider the source.. This man is pathetic and feeble-minded but I still sympathize with his loss and I DO appreciate his loss and respect his right to be irrational and perhaps confused & closed off w/regard to the death of his son and other such matters.. Let him say his piece.. Poor man..
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:43 pmLast time I checked, evolution isn't some kinf of ethical philosophy...
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:52 pmok, he's a nutter. and you are further publicizing this? but CBS shouldn't have?
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:53 pmIn SD we didn't have prayer in public schools, from 1946 when I started school until I graduated in 1958. The words "under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance when I was 13-14 years old. Evolution was taught in either high school science or biology class. I don't know if it was actually called evolution but I remember hearing that we evolved from apes, and bringing it up at home around the supper table, as we discussed it, my folks never contradicted it, so I am assuming they were taught the same thing.
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:53 pmI dunno - I'm a 'rabid' liberal and I really don't hate this new 'op ed' feature on the nightly news the way you all seem to. The CBS "free-speech" zone has guests from both the right and the left (& in between).. haven't read Media Matters article cited but from what I've seen both sides do get their say. I thought it was a mistake for this guy to label these murders as "terrorist" attacks, or to posit that science teachers are to blame for all brutal homicides comitted domestically (as these are patently absurd), but one should consider the source.. This man is pathetic and feeble-minded but I still sympathize with his loss and I DO appreciate his loss and respect his right to be irrational and perhaps confused & closed off w/regard to the death of his son and other such matters.. Let him say his piece.. Poor man..
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:00 pmObviously, the poor guy has been traumatized. But this just proves the point. His extremist theology is a form of mental illness.
If you didn't catch the latest news, Congressional GOP pedophile Mark Foley now claims that he was molested as a child by a priest. If this is true -- and it may well be -- we can now understand (but not excuse) Foley's pathology and the link between that pathology and so-called "conservative" Republican values.
These people are damaged, and deserve our pity.
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:08 pmA father like son cliché, it's a shame this shill wasn't on the sidewalk too.
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:18 pm[...] On the CBS evening news last night, Brian Rohrbough (his son died in the Columbine massacre) made a statement about the ongoing school shootings that frankly must be seen to be believed. I’m saddened and shaken by the shooting at an Amish school today, and last week’s school murders. [...]
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:50 pm"Sending our youth to die for oil and greed has diminished the value of our children. I’m sick to death of these crazies that refute science, f*cking science!!!!! They should all be rounded up, given a gun and sent to the middle east to fight the other religious crazies. Maybe they’ll wipe each other out and the rest of us can live in peace. One can only dream……
Comment by oldschool — October 3, 2006 @ 6:30 pm"
There's something worst than sending our youth to die for oil and that is killing their minds with the media and entertainment promoting sex, violence, and drugs.
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:52 pmCrazy people should never be given national exposure.
And you certainly shouldn't elect them for president.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:25 am"where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value. We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. And I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong"
I'm assuming he's talking about US involvement in Iraq, right? Or are Iraqui children not as important as little clumps of cells in someone's uterus?
"There’s something worst than sending our youth to die for oil and that is killing their minds with the media and entertainment promoting sex, violence, and drugs."
Uh....yeah. Good point. I know I'd rather have my skin burned off my body in a hellhole to boost Bush's approval rating than play a round of Grand Theft Auto. I have priorities.
"If CBS let Sheehan broadcast her extreme views, would you say the same thing? And we are not talking about being anti-war being extreme, thats not being extreme-its her particular expressives of being extreme and the offense she causes marines in the military right now. "
WTF? First off, views shared by the vast majority of Americans aren't extreme. Second, what "offense" is she causing to Marines? Sorry pal, you may like to think otherwise, but Marines do NOT speak with one voice and are not all these whacked out gung ho right wing loons you'd like to think they are (just ask my father, Cindy speaks for him, okay?) She's not doing anything to any Marine, something was done to her. Her son was killed for no reason because Bush is on a power trip and likes to play games with poor people's lives. That's not something you can ever get over (try this experiment, picture the person you love the most. Now picture him/her being killed, needlessly, senselessly killed for someone's vanity. How owuld you feel? Would you want to stop the same tragedy from happening to someone else? Would that make you crazy?) Any Marine who's "offended" by her doing what she can to try to keep him/her alive and keep his/her family from experiencing the same grief Sheehan has, um. Any Marine who's "offended" by her exercising her Constitutional right to free speech and her own differing political views should examine what "fighting to protect our freedom" (freedom!) menas to him/her. The problem here isn't this guy or his opinions, I diagree with him but he has every right to his views and I'm not going to personally rip him to shreds for having the temerity to have them like all you chickenhawks who haven't risked anything in this senseless war but have the never to tell her how to feel. He lost a child and can say whatever the hell he wants and I can disagree with his views. It's CBS and the rest of the media endlessly catering to one set of views that's the problem. This guy is given time to state his opinion which can already be heard endlessly everywhere, while someone like Sheehan would be given 4 seconds to state her opinion and 32 minutes for all the CBS comentators to mock and belittle her. Is CBS going to let me on so I can discuss how we're falling apart because of all the crazy religious bigots? Sure. Oh yes, I forgot, CBS is liberal. Their anchors don't pray in their shrine to President Bush for nearly as long as the anchors on other networks, and sometimes after a half hour expose on whether or not Clinton looked askance at his podiatrist's neighbor's grocer's manicurist's aunt's puppie's sweater, they'll actually whisper something about Bush's latest attempt to destroy the Constitution.
"there performance, not how many years they have put in. Currently, the Unoin is preventing us from giving our children the education they deserve and it is very sad"
How can we exist as a country when we continue to spawn citizens this stupid? HOW? Cecil, the union is coming for you! RUN! Better yet, hide under your bed and learn the difference between "there, their, and they're" that you should have learned in first grade, and would have too, if the creeping evil of the union hadn't thwarted you. Once you master basic usage, you can move on to coherent argument.
"One can’t seriously suggest that our society is tending more toward “conservative†or “right-wing†when:
Let me guess, um, conservatives control all three branches of government, the majority of state legislatures and governorships and the major media, half the country will believe anything Bush makes up, Congress just overturned the separation of church and state and repeaeled habeus corpus returning us to the Dark Ages of divine right, am I getting close?
October 4th, 2006 at 2:35 amZeke, take a deep breath. You're going into a Dean Scream mode. You're not making sense.
October 4th, 2006 at 2:54 amHe neglected to mention that the sicko who perpetrated this recent tragedy was a "Church goer" and that he claimed in his suicide note to be "angry at God".
I wouldn't be surprised if he was a creationist as well.
October 4th, 2006 at 3:25 amGlen, grow a brain. Zeke is right. Rampant stupidity rules the roost. Americans are not only stupid. They're proud of it. Now how stupid is that?
October 4th, 2006 at 3:55 amVery sorry to say that you're completele wrong on Darwinism and 'Evolution'. Darwin's theory did not say "the strong kill the weak". Darwin and his evolution theory claim: "The ones most fit to their environment outlast the ones least fit to their environment" And this fitness has nothing to do with fitness, strenghth or bodybuilding of any kind. Question: How is the USA in a moral freefall if we have "the president of family values" running it and we even re-elect him for his "moral values". How is the right able to pass the bucket to the left on any subject that is bad news for Bush? Bush made the war, Bush stole the election, Bush said the mission was accomplished, Bush says we're winning, Bush is giving out taxcuts to the elite or as he calls them ' my base', while the poor suffer and hunger. Bush is sacrificing every penny of treasury and every young American soldier in this false war. Bush is to blame, but if WE blame him they say we're playing the blame game but if he blames you, you better not talk back. And while I'm on the subject of lies and deceit, let's talk about God. I, for one, am not sure there is a God, how would this God let Bush steal an election and kill thousands of innocent lives in a war based on lies? How can christians and muslims be so sure there is A God and only one?! No human has ever known that for sure. IMPOSSIBLE, MKAY?! We never heard anything of (the) God(s) and we never will. We are here, by ourselves, all 6 billion of us, in this oasis of uncertainty and these christians and muslims keep lying how they know for sure their God exists because they can wave some book at me?! LOL
October 4th, 2006 at 4:59 amYes, thanks for the clarity on the moral vacuum pops. Thankfully the number one industry in Columbine, munitions and bombs, had nothing to do with moral emptiness, or your sons murder. Perhaps his death was for the best. Now he can't pass on your imbecilic ideas.
October 4th, 2006 at 7:13 amThe most disturbing thing about this post is the statement: "CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people."
Of course they don't have to - but knowledge is power. The more views we are exposed to, the more we can understanding each other. I'll bet you would be thrilled to have CBS broadcast the extreme views of someone like Louis Farrakhan. (I'm sure I have misspelled his name, get over it)
Do you think the American public is so stupid that we should not be exposed to viewpoints that you don't approve of?
October 4th, 2006 at 7:54 amUnless, of course, said innocent children are Iraqi children.
Oh, silly me. Iraqi children are - by definition - not innocent of course.
October 4th, 2006 at 8:56 amI went to school in the late sixties and seventies in a Catholic school where God was in every classroom every day AND evolution was taught. Most of our teachers were either nuns or priests. While no one from my class has ever gone out on a shooting spree, there was a suicide, there was teenage pregnancy, some drug abuse and some of the other problems that are happening in today's schools. So exactly how does having God/prayer in school and the teaching of proper moral standards prevent what's going on in schools today? It doesn't. Morality and stability come from the home environment period.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:45 amI feel for this man and his loss but he is trying to blame it on far right wing spin/talking points.
I'm sorry for your loss, but you will find most of these school killings have been done by NRA/gun fetish idiots who would fancy themselves "bootstrap" conservatives.
It is their intolerance, misunderstanding of the truth and irrationality in relationships with their fellow humans that is causing this nation's moral compass to spin south---not our underfunded pubic school system.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:48 amReally? Where do those statistics come from? YOU MAKE THIS CRAP UP!
I love you anti-gun people and the crap you spew. More people die from cars or even Dr. Malpractice than guns so why don't you outlaw them?
These gun crimes are rarely from legal guns or gun owners. You hide the fact that more people are saved by legal gun ownership than are killed by them. If you try going down this road I will shove more facts in your face than you can swallow.
Stop picking and choosing what amendments you want to support and stop making up statistics about guns.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:47 amHis kid is better off dead then with a cult creationist parent that has an attitude like that.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:19 amMr. Rohrbaugh has been an eloquent advocate for regular people until now. I didn't know he'd gone so far right since the tragedy at Columbine.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:24 amRohrbaugh's quotes from June 2003 regarding Columbine:
"Rohrbough lamented that there were no teachers or other adults with a concealed firearm in the school. He pointed to the case of Israel where teachers have been encouraged to arm themselves. Certainly, if the police are going to insist that they have no responsibility to protect victims from criminals, then it is unconscionable for the police and politicians to oppose people protecting themselves, including legalizing firearms for self defense in schools. "
So his solution to the problem is to have more armed teachers in the schools. What is this, the Wild West?
October 4th, 2006 at 1:34 pmCecil, #88, since when did teachers and/or their union dictate to the school system or the community? Politicians do that! No Child Left Behind has created impossible situations in schools all over the country. The mandated materials must be covered and tested in such a rigid manner that the teachers have very little time left for discussion of subjects in the classroom with the students.
At the risk of being considered unkind, I am curious about where you were taught grammar. ("their" should be used instead of "there" to denote the plural possessive); (this "country's" morals, not this "countries" morals)
When I was in school, there was more freedom for teachers to individualize their methods of teaching than exists now. The "good" teachers, as well as the "bad" could be more readily identified because of that.
Regarding abortions, I remember the rich girl would "go to Europe" for a couple of months (one three times). Then I remember the poor girl was kicked out of school - and often out of the parents' home; if she had the baby, it was labelled a "bastard" and she was "trash". Many young girls died from bungled abortion attempts.
October 4th, 2006 at 2:05 pmThere seems to be plenty of God in the majority party in Congress. Thisat does not seem to prevent them from coveting little boys, taking bribes or peddling influence.
October 4th, 2006 at 2:27 pmColumbine Dad's gonna have to eat those words. Turns out too much God in America was responsible.
NBC News and news services
Updated: 5:55 p.m. PT Oct 3, 2006
QUARRYVILLE, Pa. - The gunman who killed five girls in an Amish schoolroom confided to his wife during the siege that he molested two female relatives 20 years ago when he was boy and was tormented by dreams of doing it again, authorities said Tuesday.
Investigators also said that Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, plotted his takeover of the school for nearly a week and that the items he brought — including flexible plastic ties, eyebolts and lubricating jelly — suggest he may have been planning to sexually assault the Amish girls before police closed in.
“It’s very possible that he intended to victimize these children in many ways prior to executing them and killing himself,†State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller said.
Holding up a copy of the gunman’s suicide note at a packed news conference, Miller also suggested that Roberts was haunted by the death of his prematurely born daughter in 1997. The baby, Elise, died 20 minutes after being delivered, Miller said.
Elise’s death “changed my life forever,†the milk truck driver and father of three wrote to his wife. “I haven’t been the same since it affected me in a way I never felt possible. I am filled with so much hate, hate toward myself hate towards God and unimaginable emptyness it seems like everytime we do something fun I think about how Elise wasn’t here to share it with us and I go right back to anger.â€
October 4th, 2006 at 7:56 pmObviously the "think" section of this website name is not a pre-requisite to post a comment on this site. I would suggest people try reading and UNDERSTANDING what this guy is saying before you comment. Perhaps then you won't come across as so bigotted and stupid.
October 4th, 2006 at 8:18 pmMr. Rohrbough has obviously given the tragedy of his sons murder at Columbine a great deal of thought and consideration. His perspective is informed by both his experience of events and his faith. With the great personal freedoms realized from the U.S. cultural revolution of the 1960's came great responsibilities. For much of society these responsibilities have gone unacknowledged, particularly by many of our political and cultural leaders.
When a society rejects the concept of good and evil, accepts failed marriages and single parent homes as the norm, and celebrates a culture of violence in the media therein lie the seeds of alienation from family and community and the road to Columbine and all future Columbines.
Mr. Rohrbough, like the Trojan prophetess Casandra of Greek myth, speaks truth to an unbelieving population imploring us to beware the Trojan Horse within our gates. Who will listen?
October 4th, 2006 at 9:03 pmI am glad to see where all of the communist go to. I thought America had freedom of speech, but I guess that does not apply to anyone who does not agree with your wacked out left winged indeas. I used to be there with you but I wised up one day. Your ideas are wacked because they are exactly the same as those in Europe. Can you people realize that communism and socialism don't work. The point is not about evolution, the point is personal responsibility, which the left does not ever bring up. There is always an excuse....poor, homeless, wages....I have been there and pulled myself out of it and did not ask for government help. There has to be absolute right and wrong, or everyone will interpret what that want and chaos rules. Since the 1960's the courts have been liberal, the school sytem since the 1950's....in the business world if something does not work you change it but the system is so corrupted of liberal influence and greed no one will do anything about it. He is exactly right the system is broken. We tried it the liberal way, let's try it another way. You can't argue with facts.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:16 pmAfter reading most of the posts on this blog, I am astounded. Well over half of the attacks on this man's views have nothing to do with what he actually said. Rather, they are emotional extrapolations of what (I can only assume) persons wanted to hear or presumed he said, based on their disagreeing points of view and prejudices of persons with faith-based opinions.
It is a shame that so many of us have lost track of the fact that Freedom of Speech including things you don't believe or want to hear (even the Tory's had their right to be heard back then and I don’t think those views were at all popular with our forefathers who eventually came up with the First Amendment). It is equally a shame that many have also apparently lost the ability to accurately, specifically, critically, and reasonably respond to things that they disagree with.
Among many things I believe are and/or eventually will erode and topple our great society - the loss of the ability to critically think and respond will most likely be leading the way.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:03 pmWhat an idiot!
The vast majority of Europeans accept evolution and have secular governments. School shootings are still extermely rare events throughout Europe and never happen in Norway, Finnland, Sweden, Denmark or the Netherlands, the most enlightened countries in Europe.
What's the difference?
Europeans are less agressive more tolerant and are not in love with guns like Americans. They do not glorify violence like Americans do with their little stupid wars and action movies. They do not value male dominance, like Americans do.
But this dumbass will never take a look in the mirror.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:04 pm{.....and I beg your forgiveness for the portion of my statement that apparently slipped past my wordcheck, and my copyediting ......."include" rather than "including." Oops!}
October 4th, 2006 at 10:06 pmI was watching the news and the only place I heard about this was on fox news. I did a search and this was the first blog that came up. I was shocked to read how many people think this man is some crazed Christian. I read many points that were based on half truths. Such as some that have a skewed view of what Christanity is really about. And what Evolution is really about. For the two cannot coexist with one another. We live in a fallen world that is filled with wicked and evil people. Just as Pope Benedict said the nature of God is not volience, it is love. Man chooses other wise. Evil is and always will be based on selfishness. Putting self above all else puts man in the place of God which is what is at the center of evolution.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:33 pmGood point Gringo.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:59 pmEnlightened Europeans glorify violence with World Wars and genocide. So much for tolerance and non-aggression...
Why don't you"tolerant", bleeding heart liberals let the guy have is opinion?
You liberal, secular progressives advocate that you are tolerant, but, won't allow anyone to have an opposing point of view.
Now that's repugnant!
October 5th, 2006 at 12:17 amI really don't understand why anyone watches CBS news anymore. I watched Couric on her first day as anchor. When she announced that Rush Limbaugh would be appearing on the "Free Speech" segment later in the week, I knew I would return to NBC on those rare occasions when I can tolerate network news. Limbaugh has as much a right to free speech as anyone, but he already gets plenty of airtime. So, I didn't see this grieving Columbine father, and I'm glad that I didn't. I would have felt bad screaming "stupid" at someone who's child had died senselessly and far too young.
He suffered the loss of a child in a senseless act of violence but, the comparison to Cindy Sheehan stops there. He is using his child's death to support a baseless religious argument that has only recently occurred to him. Cindy Sheehan's child was lost to an act of violence, but that violence was perpetrated upon her son because of the Bush administration's deliberate lies. I commend her for channeling her grief by uniting others who have lost children in the same way and for her campaign for a more peaceful world.
I respect Brian Rohrbough's right to speak his mind but, after doing a a little research, I've discovered that it is only recently that Mr. Rohrbough decided to lay the blame for his son's death on abortion. This year, he has become a speaker on the pro-life circuit. I found no mention of evolution in his six years of granting interviews. I guess some of those calculating right-wingers are using him in the same way they claim Ms. Sheehan is being used by the left.
The fact is, Mr. Rohrbough sued the Jefferson County sheriff and several deputies, a Denver S.W.A.T. team member, a former Arapahoe County deputy and finally, the school itself . He initially alleged that his son was killed by law enforcement, yet now, it is lack of morals, the teaching of evolution, and abortion on which he lays the blame. His time might be better served by speaking on how broken homes, lax gun laws, bad parenting, and the toleration of bullying by parents and school officials contributed to the tragedy of Columbine.
There are far too many links to include here but, if you want to better understand why Mr. Rohrbough decided to make these latest school killings about politics, just "google." In his grief, he has to blame somebody or something. He just can't make up his mind who, or what, that is.
October 5th, 2006 at 2:45 amunbelieveable... the bashing of a man for his opinion about a subject that MILLIONS of Americans agree with him on.... is incomprehensible. Ask youself this question.... When religion was openly encouraged in public schools, and Evolution was not taught, and a so called "right-wing fundamentalist" mentality prevailed in most of the schools in America.....
October 5th, 2006 at 2:51 amHow many school shootings did we see?
His point had less to do with abortion and more to do with the degradation of moral values in American schools. Lets face it, whenever you have a left wing element in ANY environment, things get screwed up REALLY fast.
The school system is a MESS in America, thanks to liberal values. And that FACT is not even debateable.
The fact that alot of the So-called "Americans" who bashed this man for giving his opinion that MANY milllions of people in this country agree with him on....
Is evidence to the decline of the left wing mindset in this nation.
Left wing nut bags have a right to spurt their propaganda on the news, and in our schools.. bashing ANYTHING related to religion, god, anti-abortion, evolution.. etc....
But when ONE man stands up and says whats on the mind of TONS of Americans...
You see the viciousness of many of those "liberal Americans" come to the forefront.
You see the names being called, the insults lobbed, you see liberals seething and drooling with anger.
How disgraceful can a group of American citizens get?
that man had some good points.. without a doubt..
Its just a shame some of you dont understand what they are, or are unwilling to listen.
Then again,
It is hard to listen to any rational point of view from any person, (grieving father or not) when your head is so firmly planted completely in your ass.
Interesting discussion and debate. The world would be a better place if everyone could respect different points of view. We spend too much time worrying how many minutes of airtime liberals or conservatives are given. The fact is there are deep problems in American society. Violence has been part of the American way since our founding.
The fact is there are great young people raised in religious environments and great young people raised in more secular homes. I think you would find many common links between young people raised in secular or religious home. The fact is there are bad parents in our society, no matter if religion is in the home.
The fact is were investing very little in the children and youth of our country. The developmental assets rankings of most communities leave a lot to be desired. We would achieve much more if we look for things we agreed on and tried to do something about them.
October 5th, 2006 at 4:59 amFolks,
The man is NOT blaming the killings on evolution, he merely used the topic of evolution because THAT is what the Columbine killers used as part of their justification--they stated that they had to rid society of the weak, survival of the fitest and all that.
He also was not blaming the killings on abortion, he was trying to say we have collectively flipped our noses to God and our kids are paying the price. We are a nation in a steep moral decline and that WAS his real message. If we do not want God in our business, then He will respect that and remove Himself from our lives...God never forces us to love Him or obey Him.
We better wake-up before this nation no longer exists.
October 5th, 2006 at 10:21 am[...] And while we’re at it, what the HELL was CBS thinking letting this guy on? Teaching Evolution leads to killings…. right….. [...]
October 5th, 2006 at 11:07 amall you
October 5th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
The comments made by liberals on this site are so funny to me. One guys has an opinion that millions of americans share and he is to be shut up! Now you know what conservatives have been dealing with for years with the likes of Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan. When Ann Coulter criticized the 911 widows Liberals screamed but now that the tables are turned they are doing the same thing to this guy. We believe in free speech as long as it is the speech that we want to hear. Liberals are the biggest hypocrites. We will listen to anyones nonsense and sympothize with them as long as it is not a conservative Evangelical Americans. Why can you not see the double standard that you have?
October 5th, 2006 at 4:57 pmMr. Rohrbough is right, what you believe about human origins does affect how you value human life. The path from Darwin to Hitler is well established, for starters just read "From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany" (Palgrave Macmillan, 2004)
Even our Constitution acknowledges that our rights and value are endowed by the Creator. By contrast if you look to nature for your values you find cruel and caring beghavior--take your pick--and who are you to judge the descission of another?
October 5th, 2006 at 5:45 pmOur generation has been told the lie of common descent by the process of natural selection long enough that some are actually begining to live accordingly.
It is time to wake up and expose the perpetrators of this myth. For starters just ask the next scientist you see to explain the origin of the information encoded in the DNA of everyliving thing. You will see more hand waving and hear more just-so-stories than a vaudvill act.
Start thinking!
If God didn't want evolution taught in schools, he wouldn't have placed so many old looking fossils on this planet 6000 years ago when he created the earth.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:51 pmHey...if you can kill a baby with a third trimester abortion just three, two, or even one month before it's born, why can't you kill it one month, two months, six years, or sixteen years after "it" is born.
There is a de-valuation of human life in our country that may actually give psychos the "logic" they need for their dastardly deeds. If we will take the time to think about his comments before rejecting them in knee-jerk fashion, we may find some grain of truth in his rantings.
October 6th, 2006 at 12:11 amWow,
After reading all 222 of these comments I must say, "Where has Truth gone"?
I have seen lots of things that are true, but very little truth.
First Thought,
I have seen many, many people who I can tell deem themselves as intelectually self-righteous casting a lot of stones at a man they have niether met, nor investigated. Yet they call him some really cruel names. Would not the prudent man take some time to see why this man came to the conclusions he did regarding the causes for his sons death?
Second thought,
A wise teacher once gave me a great gift, and it was three words. "INTRINSIC VALUE OBLIGATES"
Which basically means if you percieve something to have value it will dictate your actions towards it. If offered a 1 dollar bill, compared to a 20 dollar bill a sane person would choose the 20 dollar bill every time. If a student/man has been taught that life has no value. That vengence, or selfishness compared to a young life (even life in a womb) is true then where does that leave our society? I see many intelectuals in the left who cry out at the loss of "innocents" on the world stage. Yet the only truly innocent MINORITY that has NO VOICE is deemed unworthy to live. Sentenced to death by the ones who are there to protect the minority. That is TRUTH!
I fear just as we look back upon Slave owners with such disdaine, so one day will we look upon those who fought for abortion.
Final thought,
After looking at history I have noticed that every generation had its problems it believed it could not overcome. But time does go on taking many of the problems with them, and always briging us more problems to spend our time on.
Thanks,
Tyler
ps I have noticed that I became to dependent on spell checkers in school! Sorry for the typos!
October 6th, 2006 at 2:13 pmShortly after Columbine this same wingnutjob published something I saw on the internet saying that availability of guns had nothing to do with it. The problem was that prayer didn't exist in the school anymore. I recall that back in his good ol' days, a gang with zip guns considered itself well armed. Remember them, single shot .22's made from pipes and strips of innertube to work the hammer? Now anyone has access to high powered, repeating weapons. Is anyone in their right mind going to say that the reason people used zip guns and not automatic weapons was that they prayed in school?
This guy obviously doesn't and probably never did have the ability to rationally analyze facts, but the unfortunate thing is that there are so many like him. If there weren't, Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh would be on food stamps, not hauling in big dollars for their ranting and raving.
October 7th, 2006 at 10:56 pmI agree with this man, but from view of science. for 50 to 120 science has known that evolution has never made past the idea stage. There is not any facts or evidence to support, yet it has been in our text books as fact, when the truth is IT IS NOT. Let us get real. I have seen both sides of it and the Bible has a lot more evidence for a creator than to say we just happen from nothing. Thank you
October 9th, 2006 at 10:39 amYou people really are something.
The thing that you have a problem with is that someone hit the nail on the head. The truth hurts.
I can't believe how stupid your comments are.
What makes YOUR rights to free speech (which you obviously exercise on this website) are any more important that those of Christians.
You teach "tolerance" but expect it from us, and refuse to show it to anyone else.
I also find it deplorable that when someone says that are children are precious (yes, even unborn ones) someone can take offense with it.
I do believe in a woman's right to choice. THIS RIGHT SHOULD BE EXERCISED BEFORE HAVING SEX. Our society teaches our children that you don't have to be responsible or accountable for your actions.
I really feel sorry for you people, and will keep you in my prayers.
One day, you will acknowledge God as God, I'm just glad that I choose to now.
In Christ's service always,
October 10th, 2006 at 6:13 pmBeth
Mr. Brian Rohrbough is absolutely right. Not only is society suffering from moral bankruptcy, what is being taught within the public education system in the form of naturalistic, religious philosophy, is the main culprit fueling the demise. And instead of actually addressing the problem of school shootings (as well as other moral issues) in a manner where the root of the problem is exposed and corrected, what we see instead are those who refuse to think through to the logical conclusion what naturalism has brought us, and hence the beat goes on. Therefore, apart from honest and open inquiry we are destined to see more and more students abused, maimed, and murdered. But, given the attitudes of so many that have been shaped by naturalism, is there really a reason why any one of them should care?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:24 pmI find it mighty humorous that one "radical conservative" man can cause such an uproar among liberals. It's as if this man represents a paradigm shift in the media as a whole. I'm sorry he got off topic and i don't feel it was his place to insert personal beliefs, but if the same standard were placed on media as a whole I feel sure it would fall painfully short.
October 14th, 2006 at 2:47 pm[...] Father of slain Columbine student attributes shooting at AMISH school to … insufficient religion in the schools?! (tags: whaddafuck weird religion) [...]
October 17th, 2006 at 1:17 amYOU ALL ARE IDIOTS IF GOD WERE IN EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE NONE OF THIS WOULD EVER HAPPEN
October 18th, 2006 at 9:52 am"Mr. Rohrbough suffered a great loss and is certainly entitled to his opinion. But CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people."
Absolutely classic. Michael Moore uses Columbine to push the ban of guns. No problem. Cindy Sheehan uses the death of her son as a sounding board to call the President a terrorist and murderer. No problem. But when Brian Rohrbough speaks, Think Progress is concerned about his "extreme views." So much for credibility.
October 18th, 2006 at 10:29 am[...] Page Summary: We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. Three were killed instantly and two more died today from fatal injuries. Who would have enough contact with the Amish to have a grudge against one of their schools?In other words, what was the grudge. Of course these big coporations move with glacial speed so they are stuck with this tactic even though the country is going to swing decidely liberal in about a month.read more | digg story [...]
October 27th, 2006 at 2:30 amIn response to comment number 83- God did not inflict suffering on Job, Satan did..... and Job still held firm in his faith. I completely agree with this man and frankly, it scares me how out of whack our society has become. We attack Christianity, saying people shouldn't bring there religion into things. Considering the definition of religion is, " the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices", I would say that evolution is indeed a religion. All i know is that God is sovereign. I trust him because he saved me and he didn't have to because we are all born disgusting sinners. It's our choice whether or not we accept him.
November 26th, 2006 at 12:57 pmInstead of exchanging insults, let's see which model better explains the dysfunction under consideration: mass murder, and/or psychopathology in general. One hypothesis which can be made consistent with Darwinism is that lack of any meaningful challenge was a contributing factor (or a necessary pre-condition) for this random outburst of otherwise meaningless violence. A need for some type of stimulation may be a genetically inherited physiological requirement fully explainable by the Theory of Evolution, and not explainable within the framework of religion, at least without a lot of silly contradictions of the central premise that gods are basically benevolent.
It is well-known, even among dilletantes in psychology & neuroscience such as myself, that a couple hours of near-total sense deprivation drives most subjects to varying degrees of agitation, up to pseudo-psychosis. (Symptoms indicative of psychosis vanish when normal stimuli are re-introduced to subjects, thus no lawsuits for these studies!) The study I vaguely recall involved remaining stationary in a room-temperature bathtub, in the dark. Given this known effect of the absence of nearly all stimuli, it seems reasonable to suppose that a similar effect on subjects deprived specifically of one or more types of stimuli, for example intellectual and/or physical challenges. Obviously, many people function sanely for long periods of safety, meaning not being in danger of life & limb. Therefore, it isn't as simple as physical danger.
My starting hypothesis is that frequent, moderately strenuous exercise in combination with an average 40 hour work week is sufficient to keep all people sane enough to not kill at random. Less stimulation than that may be dangerous, in varying degrees depending on genetic background and other environmental factors to be determined by true experts in the relevant research fields.
More generally, a requirement for some type of external neurological stimuli, perhaps at some threshold intensity and/or duration, appears to exist and is most readily explained as a physiological result of the conditions in which the physical instruments of our intellect evolved.
Absent, uninvolved, or minimally involved parents can easily be imagined providing just such a minimally stimulating environment, without specifically blaming the parents or society as Mr. Rohrbough nauseatingly attempts. It is still, always the responsibility of the individual to find sufficient challenges to remain sane enough to not kill innocent people.
November 27th, 2006 at 11:16 pmThis man could not have been more right. The Amish schools did have a shooting desite it being a religious school but the shooter was not a student and such shootings are rare as opposed to school shootings in secular schools which has become common place.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:05 pmThis man could not have been more correct by pointing out the moral decay of this country. The Amish schools did have a shooting despite it being a religious school but the shooter was not a student and such shootings are rare as ospposed to violence of all types in secular schools where school shootings are not nearly as rare.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:06 pm*blinks* wait... evolution and abortion cause school shootings? Wish some had told me that sooner. I'd be beating my bible over the head of Darwin and making sure my wife stayed in the damn kitchen if i knew that. I think we all do need to return to our conservatiive, fundamentalist values: Women shouldn't vote, blacks should be slaves, muslims are heretics (as are Jews), the rich should Lord over the poor, witches should be burned, and "I refuse to change." should be our national motto. Damn Godless commies, telling me it's ok to have freedoms...
December 5th, 2006 at 11:34 pm