Bush: Iraqis Are Willing To ‘Tolerate’ This ‘Level Of Violence’
Bush: Iraqis Are Willing To ‘Tolerate’ This ‘Level Of Violence’
Today in his press conference, President Bush applauded the courage of Iraqis, stating that he is “amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.” Watch it:
In reality, 890,000 Iraqis have moved to Jordan, Iran and Syria since Hussein’s fall and more than 300,000 have fled to other parts of Iraq to escape the violence. Additionally, 71 percent of Iraqis want U.S. forces to leave Iraq within a year, saying “they would feel safer if U.S. and other foreign forces left Iraq.”
Iraqis aren’t “tolerating” the violence. They’re just trying to survive.
Full transcript below:
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN: Thank you, Mr. President. Back on Iraq, a group of American and Iraqi health officials today released a report saying that 655,000 Iraqis have died since the Iraq war. That figure is 20 times the figure that you cited in December at 30,000. Do you care to amend or update your figure and do you consider this a credible report?
PRESIDENT BUSH: No, I don’t consider it a credible report, neither does General Casey and neither do Iraqi officials. I do know that a lot of innocent people have died and it troubles me and grieves me. And I applaud the Iraqis for their courage in the face of violence. I am, you know, amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.
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Mad cow is eating his brain like an hor’s d’ouvre.
-GSD
October 11th, 2006 at 12:03 pmTolerance? For THIS???
[from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6040054.stm ]
An estimated 655,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion, according to a survey by a US university.
The research compares mortality rates before and after the invasion from 47 randomly chosen areas in Iraq.
The figure is considerably higher than estimates by official sources or the number of deaths reported in the media…
BushCo can’t convince me that those who died had ANYTHING to do with the events of 9/11!
Emperor George can’t convince me that those who died threatened the US in any way shape or form!!!
Iraqis have a tolerance for this??? Wake up the War Crimes Courts! They’ll need to be open for business and ready to try the Worst President Ever.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:04 pmBush must be asleep in the head. Get REAL mr prez,face the FACTS, your a loser…
October 11th, 2006 at 12:04 pmAnother great Bushism for the history books!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:06 pm[…] Original post by Amanda Read More… […]
October 11th, 2006 at 12:06 pmIt’s another “I only want smokers to smoke” moment directly from the Big Tobacco hearings.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:07 pmGenocide is a term defined by Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) as “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
Homicide
October 11th, 2006 at 12:08 pmMurder
Felony murder
Consensual homicide
Negligent homicide
Vehicular homicide
Honor killing
Assassination
Ritual murder
Proxy murder
Torture murder
Murder-suicide
Spree killer
Child murder
Lynching
Lust murder
Mass murder
Serial killer
Human sacrifice
Bush’s comment is outrageous and for that alone he must resign or be impeached! Iraq is a cesspool of violence and Iraqis have NO future thanks to Dubya Dunce Decider Despot! They live in constant fear of being blown-up or murdered > Shame on Bush!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:09 pmDidn’t he get voted off the Real World DC?
October 11th, 2006 at 12:09 pmGee, Junior, they’ve been “tolerating” their casualties by turning American soldiers into walking targets!
YOU ASSHOLE! YOU USELESS TYRANNICAL BRAT! YOU EMBARRASSMENT TO THE UNITED STATES!
We desperately need that majority in the House to begin the Impeachment proceedings!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:10 pm“I don’t control it a credible report”
????
October 11th, 2006 at 12:10 pmI do know that a lot of innocent people have died and it troubles me and grieves me. And I applaud the Iraqis for their courage in the face of violence. GWB 10-11-06
October 11th, 2006 at 12:12 pmMr. President, I also applaud the Iraqis for their courage. With 71% of them opposing the American presence, they show remarkable clarity
in defining what the problem is. It’s you, Mr. President. You’re too bull-
headed to consider any other approach but Rumsfeld’s. This is the same man who sole the Uranium enrichment tools to North Korea. The same man who sold WMD to Saddam Hussein.
Mr. President, with cabinet members like that, who needs enemies?
What a load of hog wash
October 11th, 2006 at 12:12 pm“lucky” me to be home to watch this press conf. today. There can be no doubt that the man is a moron, that he continues to contradict himself, that he has no plan for anything, and that he obviously thinks via his ego.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:15 pmBush is a psychopath.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:16 pm#11, Mikey….TP’s transcript is inaccurate. If you watch the tape, he says, “I don’t consider it a credible report.”
October 11th, 2006 at 12:16 pm#11…
Yes, I also caught that one, I’m trying to find more verification those were his exact words….
(Quite the Freudian slip if it is, eh?)
October 11th, 2006 at 12:17 pmI think bushie’s head fell asleep and never woke up and he has that painful tingling sensation above the shoulders all the time. What an ass.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:18 pm“I don’t control it a credible reportâ€
Yup, just a little Freudian slip there… it really is nothing like the 30,000 he reports from the one he does “control”.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:18 pmthe rest of the world looks away in disgust as America becomes increasingly isolated….18-35 year olds in Europe say not only to igonore the U.S. but forget about the place altogether. In other words, let it sink into its moral decay accelerated by the likes of the chimpy Bush.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:18 pmThey tolerate it by attacking U.S. troops every fifteen minutes… God help us if they ever become intolerant.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:19 pm#2 - “An estimated 655,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion, according to a survey by a US university.” - Comment by Jesus Christ, God of War
*******Dear Anti-Christ, As I listened to the President question the methodology of the report you cite, I was wondering which University conducted the “survey” and what methodology was employed. I am sure this same University also lamented the deaths of millions of innocent non-combatants during all our previous wars….
October 11th, 2006 at 12:20 pmActually, President Idiot, they’re not willing to tolerate it, but thanks for making sure there was at least one outright lie in your press conference - at least we can count on you for that. Heckuva job, Dubbie!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:21 pm“amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.â€
Good God, does this man have a brain cell,or a heart, anywhere??
October 11th, 2006 at 12:22 pmIT’S RAMADANS FAULT
now maybe the clintons are off the hook……………..but………..no
October 11th, 2006 at 12:26 pmGuys you’re not listening to Dubya. We’re staying the course mission is damn near accomplished and we’re about to turn the corner on the path to freedom. Grand Ol Pervs will say anything. This has got to be THE GREATEST WAR EVER SOLD.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:26 pmAfter all, they are underpriviledged, so this must be pretty much better off for them…
October 11th, 2006 at 12:26 pmA team at Johns Hopkins has done another study of the post-invasion death rate in Iraq:
A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.
John Hopkins MA. As for the rest of your idiotic rant..phttt.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:27 pmHey, I don’t hear any complaints from the dead Iraqis, do you?
October 11th, 2006 at 12:27 pm6*9 cell, 6*9 cell, 6*9 cell, 6*9 cell, 6*9 cell, 6*9 cell, 6*9 cell
If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly
October 11th, 2006 at 12:28 pmAdolph Hitler and his German Nazi war machine were amazed at the resistance put up by the Russian people against his imperial invasion of Mother Russia…
Mad King George III of England was amazed at the American colonial resistance to British imperial occupation in 1776…
President Lyndon Baines Johnson was amazed at the resistance of the Vietnamese people to the American invasion and occupation of their country in the 1960s…
Imperial aggressors are always amazed at popular nationalistic resistance to their colonialist actions.
Cheers.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:28 pm#22 - Dear Mighty A**hole!
ReichWingNut Rule #1:
October 11th, 2006 at 12:28 pmNever believe anything that doesn’t match your sick and twisted world view, no matter how wrong your sick and twisted world view might be. It’s obvious that no amount of rational thought, investigation and verifiable objective evidence is ever capable of helping inform, correcting, and stabilizing your sick and twisted world view.
Ex(crement), Mighty and their god Bushiva…
…(and THEIR families) ALL deserve to experience the same level of acceptable violence…
…they so callously disregard in the case of Iraqis…
…may they (and their ideological cellmates) ALL be granted the CURSE they so richly deserve…
October 11th, 2006 at 12:29 pm#11 — Thanks for catching the transcript error — fixed.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:29 pmNotice how his press conferences lately are nothing than an opportunity for him to scold and talk down to the journalists who attend, and interspersed with off the cuff quips and patronizing meant to get a chuckle or two?
This man has no credibility and integrity…..none.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:30 pmThis is a joke, right? This couldn’t be the president of the United States saying such things. I must be having a lucid nightmare.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:30 pmWould somebody PLEASE tape a bullet to the White House front door!!!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:30 pmAs I listened to the President question the methodology of the report you cite, I was wondering which University conducted the “survey†and what methodology was employed. I am sure this same University also lamented the deaths of millions of innocent non-combatants during all our previous wars….
Comment by mighty+aphrodite — October 11, 2006 @ 12:20 pm
Dear Propagandite - The Prez did not question the methodologies… he simply rejected it without offering any justifications for why.
Also - the Universities lamentations over the non combat deaths in all previous wars has nothing to do with the accuracy of this report… but nice try at distorting the issue.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:30 pmJust when I think Bush has uttered the most stupid thing, he does it again, topping his last most stupid statement ever.
This man has no compassion in him whatsoever. He showed no compassion when Katrina hit, didn’t give a damn when it wasAmericans,why should he care for “feriners”.
totally unbelievable, totally disgusting……
October 11th, 2006 at 12:31 pmMA you sound more and more like a third reich moralist wacko every day.[which we have debunked –Perverted GOP]
I guess you also follow the Scmitt/Straussian view of Jesus that Hitler undertook, you know, that what makes you superior to other people [cough, hack, hack]
MA is your typical stormfront elohim wacko, Like Tim Mcveigh.
Planning to blow up any buildings MA?
October 11th, 2006 at 12:33 pmNice thing for someone to say who caused the escalation in violence. What an idiot.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmHe is definitely the first great mass murderer of the 21st century, though likely not the last.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmdo they have a choice? I know, that was the whole point of this post…
October 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmMA defends gratuitous bloodbath by implementing sophomoric rhetorical device. really impressive.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmFrom the longer version at CNN:
October 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmIt is sickening that this pathetic excuse for a human being speaks for America.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pmThe FOOL ,he needs to spend a couple weeks among the Iraquis and if he survives do we want him back ?
October 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmThey are not tolerating it. They are killing each other and dying. We really need a psychiatric exam of this lunatic.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmMA displays her calllous disregard for humanity as she defends Bush and decries the recent collaborative report on Iraqi deaths.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmIt’s really sad to see someone so self-righteous and sanctimonious be so unaware and driven strictly by party politics. We have our own troll-version of Ann Coulter blogging here.
While we’re at it, I think we should applaud prisoners at Guantanamo for being willing to tolerate their incarceration, and we should applaud cancer patients for thier being willing to suffer through chemo.
Somebody please tell this idiot that there is a difference between being willing to tolerate something, and being forced to tolerate something by circumstances beyond ones control.
I wonder if Iraqis had had a choice, before the invasion, of having Saddam stay in power or “tolerating” the current situation (including having random tortured bodies show up all over town on a daily basis) which they would have chosen.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmBush made the decision to go into Iraq and in his own words, “I can sleep at night”. The families of the 3,000 dead US troops and 655,000 dead Iraqis might not be sleeping so well.
State of Denial is definitely recommended reading. Bush is a madman.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:39 pmThis is a truly amazing president, with a mind so broad and open that contradictions can roam and graze freely without ever furrowing his brow.
I do believe he just made room for the insurgents: “And I applaud the Iraqis for their courage in the face of violence. I am, you know, amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.”
Or did no one tell him that we are the major purveyors of violence in Iraq?
By praising their tolerance, he’s implying “bring it on” all over again.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:39 pmPlease remove GW Bush from the Earth!
Please take this evil man away.
He is worse than Hitler.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:39 pmWell said crickett!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:40 pmJust remember, Republicans are PROUD of this guy! They think he’s the greatest thing to come to America since sliced pizza. A few years ago GOPers were talking about putting his face on Mt. Rushmore.
Add to this, there still are Christian leaders who idolize this guy because they believe God picked him to be president. Apparently, God likes to micro manage somethings.
To me this says there’s a generation coming who is going to really, really, really hate their parents.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:41 pmI know I’ve asked this one before…….
Does anyone know if there is yet a ‘clinical’ term for this speech artifice being used commonly by politicians:
The incompletion and/or interruption of a spoken sentence, and then continuing on with language that is a shifting position from the initial utterance, if not a total non-sequiter.
I see this speech pattern most often in the responses to questions asked of them.
I have a feeling it is a contrived tool of speech, used because the interruption of spoken thought can generate confusion in the mind of the listener, and (the listener) will simply agree and accept the statement, even if it is totally non-sensical. Or false.
Dubious uses this pattern often, as does Rumsfeld.
I’m guessing it was an easy thing for Karl to teach the chimp, being stuffed full of words that really don’t have to go together anyways.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:43 pmRovian Rule of Spoken Language being:
“Doesn’t matter what you say, we can always change it later.
I can just see Rove, sitting in a trailer speaking into a microphone to georges earpiece, when he hears,”…amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate” and Karl drops his head into his hands in disbelief.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:47 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia
October 11th, 2006 at 12:50 pmEcholalia - Wikipedia
Echolalia is the repetition or echoing of verbal utterances made by another … Immediate echolalia appears to tap into the person’s short-term memory for …
I wondered the same thing and I found the answer in roughly 10 seconds with a google news search! It would have been less if I hadn’t stupidly tried Yahoo first.
You could have done the same thing but then you wouldn’t have been able to insinuate something with no basis in fact. Now it’s your turn to do the research: find a link to a study that discredits this methodology. Not a talking head saying it’s been discredited, a proof that margin of error is too high to reject the null hypothesis.
I am sure that’s irrelevant. You see, this study is an example of science, not propaganda, and whatever the researchers felt about the number of innocents killed in other wars does not change their estimates of how many were killed in this one.
If you want to smear the researchers, why would an Iraqi university be saying the same thing? Or if you’re dismissing all science except your own (which is actually not science unless you’ve got an experiment to show), that’s what we call…relativism.
But congratulations on your troll post. Now you can go pee-pee.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:50 pm# 55…”Just remember, Republicans are PROUD of this guy! They think he’s the greatest thing to come to America since sliced pizza.”
That’s right, baby!!!! And I do love my pizza!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:51 pmIn reality, 890,000 Iraqis have moved to Jordan, Iran and Syria since Hussein’s fall and more than 300,000 have fled to other parts of Iraq to escape the violence. Additionally, 71 percent of Iraqis want U.S. forces to leave Iraq within a year, saying “they would feel safer if U.S. and other foreign forces left Iraq.â€
Iraqis aren’t “tolerating†the violence. They’re just trying to survive.
See! I told you it was Clinton’s fault. If he had done more to quell the impending violence of a pre-emptive war while he was in office, 600,000+ Iraqi’s would still be alive, and 890,000+ would still be living there.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:51 pmyour welcome ma, exley, et al.
#56 - In Sales, that technique is usually referred to as “deflection”, and it is used to skirt around “objections” that a customer may raise during the sales process. Having (not proudly) endured some sales training, I can say with some confidence that the Bush team uses a number of those techniques on a regular basis. Someone (maybe Rove) struck on the idea that a team of trained “closers” would be most effective at campaigning/winning elections, and therefore put them all on such a training program. It’s sad to think that our Nation’s leaders have sunk to the level reserved for used car salesmen, but they have, and sadder still to think there are that many of us who are suceptible to that brand of hucksterism.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:52 pm#57…
October 11th, 2006 at 12:52 pmMaybe that is the answer to my question in post #56!!!
Would explain everything, and a whole lot less time lil’ georgie would have to spend practicing his lines….
You do know thats a sign of RWA Exley?
October 11th, 2006 at 12:54 pm#49 - Dear Marie, I really is sad to see someone with such kind intentions as yourself be used as a dull tool by our enemies. Your life really hasn’t had much meaning since those ’60’s Viet Nam protests - but it’s good to see you trying to recapture the “bloom of the rose”. Your next assignment might include being a “human shield” in North Korea….
Have a “smiley face” day…..
October 11th, 2006 at 12:54 pmthis is maddening. how the americans allowed such a tyrannical, nutbag into office. his intellect is an 8 ball.
I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.” — Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor.” The Project for a New American Century - 80% Zionist/Jews 20% Neocon followers
By Way of Deception Thou Shalt Do War,” The Israeli Mossad Motto.
1849: Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s wife dies. Before her death she would nonchalantly state,
“If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.”
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed states in a speech,
“Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them.”
Back to 1815, this is the year Nathan Mayer Rothschild makes his famous statement,
“I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain’s money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply
One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” — Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
October 11th, 2006 at 12:55 pmThank you #58, echolalia is close to what I’m seeing/hearing, but not quite it ….
I still like your other scenario best, boo…..!
October 11th, 2006 at 12:58 pmThen, at post #65, MA reached the absolute bottom of the wingnut bag-o-tricks, by accusing Marie of being “hanoi jane”. That’s some indredibly weak stuff right there MA - you mean to say that you have nothing left but that? When you look in the mirror, do you see dick(less) cheney?
October 11th, 2006 at 1:02 pmA quote from David Rockefeller’s autobiography ‘Memoirs’ -
6-11-6
“For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will.
If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
October 11th, 2006 at 1:04 pmma
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, that was used as an excuse to increase our involvement in Vietnam and was only to serve the Rockefeller/Rothchild interests, never happened. Thanks again to the freedom of information act we know they lied to us again at that time. 58,000 Americans and more than a million and a half Vietnamese are dead from that little Government lie.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:05 pmHas Bush ever had a presser where he didn’t try to identify the best dressed man in attendance? He always seems to pick out one guy and say something along the lines of “Jimmy, you’re looking marvelous today, just marvelous; that’s a wonderful suit.” Okay, i’m playing a bit here, but really, he does this at every presser i’ve seen.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:06 pmLOL Thanks.
You might want to read up on Jennifer Freyd PHD and the DARVO tactics that many RWA politicians, and pedophiles, Exleys, use to reverse their talking points and shift blame away from themselves and blame the victim for their crimes.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:06 pm655,000 deaths. Man that’s one big comma.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:07 pmDoesn’t MA sound startingly like that vile hate spewing amoral conservative, and plagiarist, RWA, mAnne Coulter?
October 11th, 2006 at 1:09 pmOctober 11th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
Dog!! Thanks for the dirty-laundry list - I’ve heard the stories one by one in the news (inasmuch as they’re ever reported on), but you can bet I’ll be circulating this list far and wide, especially to those “family values” types I know.
Thanks also for opening yourself up to terrible charges from MA that you’re a democrat operative spreading false info, emboldening enemy, etc., etc. - I know it’s scary when someone as sharp and well-informed as her comes to get you, but you’ll yearn for freedom so much that you’ll tolerate her level of violence. Chin up! and Cheers!
October 11th, 2006 at 1:10 pmThanks # 62.
What else were we expecting from a man whose early business experiences were in a parking lot selling stuff?
These salesmen who roam the corridors of the white house, and the cloakrooms of Capitol Hill, have truly become nothing more than hucksters, con men and thieves.
The sad part is that not only are many susceptible to this hucksterism, many also believe this is acceptable and even neccesary behavior in order to be successful.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmUmm George, your supposed to be freeing these people from a brutal dictator, not putting them under the thumb of the sociopathic decider of violence.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmMA would be devastated to learn that one of Georges favorite Cowboy parody flicks is Cat Ballou..starring Jane Fonda.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:13 pm“In fact, I haven’t heard a single complaint from at least 600,000 Iraqis!”
October 11th, 2006 at 1:13 pmThey dismissed the methodology of the first Lancet report as well which showed over 100,000 had been killed. That report threw out all the known deaths which had occured in the entire city of Fallujha just to make a more reserved estimate.
Their methodology?
They went door to door and asked the Iraqi survivors how many of their family members had been killed.
May “Mighty” and “Exley” both recieve a fitting punisment in their own lives, for their lies steeped in blood, their inhumanity, and their unwavering support for this GENOCIDE.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:15 pmWhat’s really amazing is that there are actually some Iraqis still alive to “tolerate” the violence.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pmMA always gets that way when it is losing the arguments. I take no pay from anyone, Hell I am just a poor mechanic sitting in a garage on an old computer put together from pieces parts.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:18 pmBut heres the complete list Tom;
http://www.armchairsubversive.com/
and here
http://quinnell.us/politics/family.html
and here
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals
78: It’s true - ours is not now a “service” economy, it is a “sales” economy; a fiction of value repeated frequently and enthusiastically, until the targets begin to believe it. The corporate world has embraced it fully - companies are now run by salesmen and accountants, neither group of which really understands what it takes to make or to do anything real. Dilbert is a funny comic strip, but it is not funny at all that our shared (whether you like the idea or not, libertarians) fortunes, and the fortunes of our offspring, are in the hands of those who not only don’t care, but really don’t know.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:18 pm[…] Update: From Amanda’s description, it was more like a Federico Fellini film than a train wreck. […]
October 11th, 2006 at 1:18 pmAs if the common Iraqis have any choice but to stay put.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:20 pmAre they any more desolate than the marginal and poor of New Orleans who didn’t have a dime and/or the capability to flee from Katrina?
What a dick. George Bush can kiss my ass.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:21 pmIronically, millions of Americans are willing to tolerate him as President.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:21 pmThanks guys for helping with the language thing…..
October 11th, 2006 at 1:22 pmHere’s a term I do know describes the RWA speech pattern perfectly:
Bu..shit
How about we have that kind of violence HERE Bushy, Will you still be able to tolerate it?
Or are you one sick-ass freak?
/Violence & Death = OK.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:24 pm//Stem Cells and/or Abortion = Not Ok.
///How is that rational?!
#87
ditto
October 11th, 2006 at 1:26 pmIt figures that a person who is not credible would claim that a report reflecting his failed policies is not credible.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pm#84….
October 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pmI’m still lamenting the fact America is no longer a manufacturing economy!
I deplore the fact that the average person no longer actually works with their hands to produce a product, and that our lives have become so compartmentalized we are incapable of even thinking about the most basic tasks of survival.
Thanks for bringing me up to speed, I see it now in the total lack of interest, regard or responsibility after the sale is made… you are right, the service is no longer there.
As for buying goods, I have had experiences with companies who rely on a first and only time sale, knowing that the product is so bad there will be no repeat business, and trying to get refunded or replaced is made so difficult that a person gives up…..
[…] Think Progress has the video here. […]
October 11th, 2006 at 1:36 pmYes, let’s not forget - the Iraqis asked to be invaded, and asked for military occupation. That’s why they’re willing to “tolerate” this level of violence: because they believe in George W. Bush’s fantasy.
The ego (to say nothing of gall and hubris) of that man is really something to behold, no matter what you think of him.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:39 pmMighty Aphrodite and the rest of the wingnut brigade don’t realize how insane they look by defending Bush’s increasingly deranged words and actions. Good thing the wingnut brigade is such a small proportion of our society.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:42 pmHmmmm…w h e.. t h e r to die… at the hands of one idiot….. or another?? hmmm ….I’ll take the Saddam regime, at least he was somewhat predictable. Not knowing who,when ,where or how can be a living death.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:42 pmFrom CNN.
“Information for the survey was collected by Iraqi doctors, and analysis was performed by the faculty of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in cooperation with the Center for International Studies at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Death certificates confirmed families’ accounts in 92 percent of cases, the researchers said.”
October 11th, 2006 at 1:43 pm#82:
‘Robert Blendon, director of the Harvard Program on Public Opinion and Health and Social Policy said the number of deaths in the families interviewed — 547 in the post-invasion period versus 82 in a similar period before the invasion — was too few to extrapolate up to more than 600,000 deaths across the country.
Donald Berry, chairman of biostatistics at M. D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, was even more troubled by the study, which he said had “a tone of accuracy that’s just inappropriate.â€â€™
“They’re almost certainly way too high,†said Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington. He criticized the way the estimate was derived and noted that the results were released shortly before the Nov. 7 election.
“This is not analysis, this is politics,†Cordesman said
NEW YORK TIMES / ASSOCIATED PRESS
Sorry, Mparker. But we do have some lovely parting gifts for you.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:43 pmSigh. So is any putative journalist going to follow up this comment with Tony Snow or Bush at the next press conference?
Mr. President, at the last press conference you said you were “amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.†We know 899,000 Iraqis have fled to other countries, rather than tolerate the violence. However most Iraqis are not wealthy enough to do that. Wouldn’t it be accurate to say that most Iraqis have no choice about living with high levels of violence, given that they had no choice about the U.S. overthrowing Saddam Hussein?
October 11th, 2006 at 1:46 pm[…] As if he were talking about a dog he kicks. “amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.†Watch it: […]
October 11th, 2006 at 1:49 pm#98….The Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington is a right-wing think tank. Lots of credibility there.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:50 pmExley, even it 50,000 people died as a result of your Republican vote, would you feel much better about that?
October 11th, 2006 at 1:52 pmThey’re not “tolerating” it - they have been FORCED into it by someone from the outside whom they didn’t invite in.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:52 pm#98 - why do ReichWingNuts try to cover their a**es with lies?
You obviously don’t believe #97:
From CNN.
“Information for the survey was collected by Iraqi doctors, and analysis was performed by the faculty of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in cooperation with the Center for International Studies at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Death certificates confirmed families’ accounts in 92 percent of cases, the researchers said.â€
No wonder Amerika is screwed up. You Republicans can’t tell the truth from spin and the classic CYA!
October 11th, 2006 at 1:53 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjSSQcPKNnQ
The President of Zogby Polling says the methodology of the Lancet poll showing 655,000 have died in Iraq is good. He adds 30,000 Iraqi deaths is preposterous
October 11th, 2006 at 1:58 pmSomeone needs to clue Bush in on the fact that the violence stems directly from his policies and decisions. He apparently is unable to make that connection himself.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
#101…Nice try. Alas, you are incorrect. CSIS is a bipartisan organization. In fact, U.S. senator Sam Nunn, Democrat, became chairman of the CSIS Board of Trustees in 1999.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:00 pmThat’s all good and well Exley, except these people haven’t released a study of their own backing up their statements.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:03 pmExley’s post brings up another interesting point regarding our regime’s use of rhetoric. In spite of the fact that they’ve taken political gamesmanship to a whole new level and politicized issues once considered out-of-bounds for politics and government, they invariably cry “politics” any time they’re faced with criticism or inconvenient factual material, as though they themselves are not “doing politics” at all. That’s a whopper, and it’s never called for the BS that it is, even by the more incisive critics that appear around here.
I’m certain that, if some powerful Democrats ever tried the same thing, Exley would be all over it, and justly so.
Finally, as regards the substance of Exley’s post, So F***ing what? Let’s just split the diff then Ex, and say it’s 300k - is that an honorable number of people to kill, is 150k? Dubbie’s going to make the history books as the sequel to the other butcher of baghdad. “W”: BBII - that’s just awesome.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:03 pmWhat is really amazing is that this drooling, mouth-breathing, hump-backed, knuckle-dragging, vacant-skulled moron is the president of the United States. Even after 6 looong years, I still can’t seem to accept it. This is a surreal experience. Amazing, indeed.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:04 pmthe army is drawing up plans to be there with the same troop level until 2010. damn…….there might not even be an iraq. talk about total destruction and the slaughter of iraqis.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:05 pm#98 Very good point. The number above 600,000 may be too high of an estimate. The other numbers touted out there are from the low 30k range (Bush) to over 100k (don’t have the sources at my fingertips). Is it fair to say that while the 600k estimate is way too high, the 30k estimate is far too low? And what numbers do the people you have pointed say the death estimates are? And isn’t a number just a benchmark? And if the Iraq War is just a comma, then what are the deaths? I didn’t catch what punctuation mark Ol’ Bush gave them.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#97, 104….Wow, so the people who prepared the report vouch for the accuracy of their own report? That’s a powerful testament to its credibility.
Look, as we see from the experts quoted in The New York Times and AP, the study is a farce. No one sees itt as credible. Move on.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:06 pmDon’t you just love the way these RWA’s bash the ‘liberal media’ then use it when they think it proves their point?
Bwahhahahaaaaa!
Kinda like Bush when he calls the Constitution a GD [Blasphemy] piece of paper and then uses it in his defense.
Can you say hypocrites?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:06 pmAs a professional statistician for over 20 years, I can unequivocally state that Blendon’s comment in #98 is simply incorrect. One certainly can validly make such extrapolations, sometimes with a remarkable degree of accuracy, depending upon the methodology used and the situation being analyzed. Cordesman’s comment in #98 is worthless, as he is not a statistician and therefore is speaking from a position of ignorance. Berry’s comment in #98 may or may not be valid, depending upon the statistical methodologies used, what was reported in the paper, and what the “tone of accuracy” really was. It smacks of personal opinion, though, rather than statistical analysis. Having not read the paper, I can’t comment more than that. As usual, you really need a “650,000 +/- x thousand” to be able to evaluate the statement fully. My guess would be a margin of error in the range of 20%-30%, though, perhaps +-/ 200,000.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:07 pmTheys free to be blowed up real good. Whoopie!
October 11th, 2006 at 2:08 pmLucky I Raqi bastards
Weasel Words. A quote is not a study.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:09 pm#107….Nice try. CSIS is dominated by members with strong ties to the government and private industry…people who have a vested interest in trying to discredit a credible report.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:09 pmLMAO you ever seen a think-tank, that didn’t call itself bipartisan?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:11 pmLike maybe AEI?
Wingnuttia - A far, far away land beyond the influence of cognitive dissonance and conscience
October 11th, 2006 at 2:14 pmThe figure is probably closer to 30,000 — the vast of majority of which have been killed by Iraqi “insurgents,” religious militias, and outside terrorists, such as Al Qaeda. And, yes, I condemn the Islamist terrorists and Iraqi-on-Iraqi violence that has resulted in these deaths.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:14 pmExley - study or no study, we’ve killed a hell of a lot of people, and the justifications presented for it that haven’t proven to be lies are too weak to support the price paid to do it. That’s the point, and no one with a conscience is going to “move on” from it. Your house must stink, with all the red herring you keep in stock.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:14 pmNo you dont.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pmOne guy that dosen’t like the “tone” of the report and another who claims the numbers are “almost certainly way too high”, with no further evidence.
No Exley you have nothing. No brain. No soul. No humanity. Your not even a good liar.
Your a toilet Exley, filled to the brim with shit and flushing your filth onto the world.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pm#121 - that 30k number got bandied about over 2 years ago, and it’s still a bloody mountain of dead people at that. how f****ing stupid are the people who actually listen to you?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:18 pmHey Exley do you read those left behind series of books?
Just wunderin..
October 11th, 2006 at 2:18 pmThe lead researcher of that report, Les Roberts, said the liberation of Iraq was done “under unsupportable, and probably illegal, pretenses.†Even Human Rights Watch said the earlier report by these same researchers was “certainly prone to inflation due to overcountingâ€
This group’s October 2004 report claimed 100,000 Iraqis casualties as a result of Iraq’s liberation, and now claim that number is up to 655,000, or more than 550,000 casualties in the last two years alone. But as the authors wrote in an “author’s reply†following concerns that were raised about the methodology of the 2004 report, “The death toll estimated by our study is indeed imprecise.†(Lancet, March 26,2005 - April 1, 2005).
And an article in the Guardian following the 2004 report highlighted that the 100,000 was, in the words of one of the study’s authors, only a “rough indicator,†and that the range or their findings was between 8,000 and 194,000.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:19 pmExley the life of the Potty =)
October 11th, 2006 at 2:20 pmWell, some of the experts cited there aren’t experts at all, and here’s another quote, courtesy of Brad DeLong:
October 11th, 2006 at 2:22 pmViolence forces 1,000 Iraqis a day to flee homes-U.N.
Over 1,000 Iraqis are fleeing their homes each day because of rampant violence, and revenge killings are “totally out of control”, the U.N.’s top humanitarian official said on Wednesday.
Jan Egeland, U.N. Under-Secretary General, told a news conference that sectarian violence and military operations had forced over 315,000 to flee their homes in the past eight months.
The U.N.’s emergency relief coordinator appealed to ethnic and cultural leaders to see that “this has spiralled totally out of control…It has to stop.”
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1507992006
October 11th, 2006 at 2:23 pm#124….When you write “Your a toilet” you must use the contraction “You’re,” which is a combination of the words “You” and “are.”
Your second use of the word “your” in the last sentence is correct, however.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:23 pmBush and company knew damn good and well that Iraq would become a sectarian war and disrupt what balance their was in the middle east, This is why Bush sr and Scowcroft didn’t go into Baghdad. The violence and deaths are a direct result of the war that the neo-kooks instigated with their deceit.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:26 pmExley -
Interested why you believe 30,000 and not the higher number.
I’m not telegraphing anything, I’m just interested. Is it because that the lower number is what the President claims? Or because the other number is too unpleasant to entertain? Or because you suspect a political slant to the study that produced the higher number (and if so, why?)?
Thanks.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:26 pmExley Shrub is a WIMP, a visionless WIMP, just like his Chicken Kiev poppy.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:29 pmOctober 11th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
#137,
Well, as I pointed out, the leader of the group that did the research is clearly biased in opposition to the war.
Secondly, given the low-impact type of warfare being employed in Iraq (Small arms, IEDs, car bombs), it is highly unlikely…nearly impossible…that this figure is accurate. This is not a war like World War II, with large scale shelling of cities and carpet-bombing, which could produce tremendously large numbers of casualties.
Third, no one agrees with this new figure. It is so out of whack with other estimates as to be incredible.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:34 pm650,000+ deaths in Iraq means that Bush is a mass murderer! Every decent American must demand our troops be removed from Iraq immediately > let the Iraqis sort out an end to the violence there!
October 11th, 2006 at 2:36 pmtheer eet goes again with eets infinite crappola.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:38 pmNO ONE beweeves exleyy
Ahhh poor widdle wascally wiar
October 11th, 2006 at 2:40 pmyo Exlaxx, how many more peepler do arbusto gotta kill before jeebus comes to earthh?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:42 pm144, Jay:
1) As we now see, the 655,000 figure is nonsense.
2) But leaving that aside, your prescription for reducing the death toll in Iraq is withdrawing Coalition troops (which, by the way, I am not saying I disagree with). But since the vast majority of the carnage in Iraq is the result of Iraqi-on-Iraqi sectarian violence and terrorism by radical islamist terrorism groups, such as Al Qaeda, — and not Coalition military activities — don’t you think the removal of Coalition forces would or could lead to more violence in Iraq?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:44 pmThis is how Bush views the “freedom” he says Iraqis will tolerate anything for.
He’s using the same “line of thinking” that says Americans “love freedom so much” they are willing to let the decider shred their constitution and be wire tapped at the will of said decider in order to stay “safe.”
Freedom is just a word to him. Freedom to him means freedom for him to do as he pleases and to con Americans into letting him do it…….by convincing them that they will be free of threat or pain if they let him RULE. Bush sees our freedom, that he’ll provide us, as freedom from having to think, be adults, and participate in Democracy. He has “privatised” our participation in government. Bush: “now you can just sit back and let my corporation ( it used to be your governemt - your white house ) “protect” you. All you have to do is pay for is with your future, your money, and your REAL FREEDOM
October 11th, 2006 at 2:45 pmAs YOU now see, the 655,000 figure is nonsense.
You aint proved a gottdurn thinh with your endless rheturicalz..
October 11th, 2006 at 2:48 pmEx(crement) #143
…ballistic and explosive induced death are NOT the only killers of Iraqis…
…try disease, starvation/malnutrition, accidents, and even suicides…
…Ooops! sorry, I’m exhorting a wart (on Bushiva’s genitalia) to “think”…
October 11th, 2006 at 2:51 pmno matter what you say exclaxx shrub is still an idiot for saying this;”amazed that this is a society which so wants to be free that they’re willing to — you know, that there’s a level of violence that they tolerate.â€
If that’s true, and you beleeeve da bush bilge then we should pull the troops out right?
Right?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:52 pm#142 Fine, let’s take the 600K estimate out of the argument. You stated in earlier posts the numbers between 8,000 and 194,000. First, why would you still hold onto the 30k number? One can make a reasonable assumption it is due to your unwavering support for President Bush. While I’m sure your support is greatly appreciated in the White House, it holds no water when the numbers (194k to 650k) are showing a glaring difference to what the “Stay the Course” crowd is saying.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:52 pmExley the master of wishy washy opinionism
October 11th, 2006 at 2:55 pmExley the US presence in Iraq as an occupation force is the fuel that keeps the violence flaming in Iraq! If our troops were pulled out the violence most likely would gradually start to taper off > at least the US would no longer be blamed for Iraqi deaths after we depart!
October 11th, 2006 at 2:56 pm152….Oh, so now “accidents” are part of the Iraqi death tally?:
“If only that U.S. soldier hadn’t dropped that banana peel on the sidewalk, Tariq would still be with us today! Damn you, George W. Bush!”
October 11th, 2006 at 2:57 pmExley (in re: #143):
I’m not sure your first point constitutes a reason to out-and-out discount the figure. You’d have to first convincingly demonstrate bias (which is difficult to impossible) and then demonstrate that the bias /therefore/ affected the results — which is not necessarily the case. I’m not saying it /can’t/ be the case, just that it doesn’t automatically follow. I trust you see the distinction there. Real scientists often find things they wouldn’t necessarily have “wanted” to find, after all.
#2 is interesting and the closest to real evidence.
Your point #3, “Third, no one agrees with this new figure.” This is a falsehood. Obviously, some do, so “no one” is simply and patently incorrect. So why would you even type that? :^)
Thanks.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:57 pmgee according to you it’s only the iraqis that are killing each other even if the troops are there, and if the troops weren’t there [they are holed up anyway] wouldn’t it be just more of the same? why expose the troops to that?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:58 pmHuh?
“#124….When you write “Your a toilet†you must use the contraction “You’re,†which is a combination of the words “You†and “are.â€
Your second use of the word “your†in the last sentence is correct, however. Comment by Exleyâ€
Hey Exley,
October 11th, 2006 at 2:59 pmNo need to go nukular.
yo Exlaxx, how many more peepler do arbusto gotta kill before jeebus comes to earthh?
October 11th, 2006 at 3:00 pmyo Exlaxx, how many more peepler do arbusto gotta kill before jeebus comes to earthh?
yo Exlaxx, how many more peepler do arbusto gotta kill before jeebus comes to earthh?
yo Exlaxx, how many more peepler do arbusto gotta kill before jeebus comes to earthh?
#158
Glenn,
1) The first point is not a reason in and of itself to discount the figure. But it does raise questions as to its reliability and impartiality.
2) Okay.
3) The “nobody” terminology was simply hyperbole. “Very few people agree with this new figure” is the “straight” answer.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:01 pmsmall plane crashes into manhattan building. breaking news. not sure why
October 11th, 2006 at 3:03 pm#156…Okay, Jay. That’s fair. Like I said, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I think it might indeed be high time to remove our troops from Iraq. The military’s job was to topple Saddam. That had been done. The job of our military was never to try and prevent Iraqis from killing eachother.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:04 pmExley are you like a lawye,,er I mean are you studying to be a Liyar?
October 11th, 2006 at 3:04 pmBut Exley, what about something besides the periphery of the issue? Less form, more substance. Have you anything left aside from prevarication and equivocation?
October 11th, 2006 at 3:05 pm#163….Thanks for the news….Damn it! Let’s hope this is not what we fear it is…
October 11th, 2006 at 3:08 pmcut that sheet owt n maybe someun will leesten to your crap.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:10 pm#163….Thanks for the news….Damn it! Let’s hope this is not what we fear it is…
Comment by Exley
there you go with that mouse in your pocke crap again
Please stop including others in your dementia..
The last small plane that crashed into a building wasn’t a terrorist nor was the guy that flew his cessna into thw white house..
October 11th, 2006 at 3:12 pmExley -
I would argue based on your point #1, then, that the touted 30,000 figure is therefore just as suspect as the higher one. That is assuming that in the case of the lower figure, there is or could be a /pro-war/ bias operating. It seems to me anyway that that is at least as likely to be the case.
As far as your use of hyperbole, heck, I use it all the time! My impression so far, however, is that “very few people” is hyperbolic as well. And that’s just an impression, with no basis in statistics.
Thanks.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:13 pm3 years and billions of dollars later Exley realizes that bush and his PNAC crowd of wackos never intended this to be a peace operation
You are Brilliant Exley! Not.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:15 pmI dint ever see an answer Exley..
Are you a left behind TIm Lahaye Fan?
October 11th, 2006 at 3:16 pm#169
Well, Dog, maybe if you had been in New York on 9/11 you would understand why NYers have a gut reaction when they first hear the words “Plane crashes in building in NYC.”
October 11th, 2006 at 3:17 pmExley, Dog-
Dog, sorry to put your name next to his…
Whether a terrist threat or not, those on board the aircraft no doubt will be held as enemy combatants for a long time to come…..
RIP, Habeas Corpus.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:19 pmProjectin again are we? Yu know nothing of me then.
Just so you know Exley, I was working out in Sacramento, California when a DC-8, fully loaded, took off from the airport, and then crashed at the end of the runway, creating a huge fireball and killing everyone on board. I was right there, so don’t you even pretend to tell me about airplanes and crashes and seeing such things, I flew on that plane befoe it ever crashed, you DO NOT want to go there with me.
DO you hear me?
October 11th, 2006 at 3:22 pmOctober 11th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
#175 Well, Dog, then you should have known better to make light of the report before you knew any details as you did in posting #169. I accept your apology.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:29 pmI didn’t make light of it, what I am saying is your jumping to conclusions, I didn’t guess about what caused that crash, I stated that the last two crashes were mixed up Americans, not what you would call terrorists.
And hell will freeze over before I ever apologise to some smarmy little know nothing.
You should apologize to me, I have seen big jets crash up close, I quit that Job working on aircraft after that, I haven’t turned a wrench on a large jet since, so don’t even try to tell me what it feels like to see something like that.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:36 pmI want freedom in my country so badly that I am willing to tolerate the occasional terrorist attack. I’m willing to risk giving up domestic spying, indefinite detentions and abrogation of the bill of rights, and let the terrorists blow something up every few years without pissing my pants.
If only the gov’t was listening to its own freedom-loving citizens.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:36 pmIndeed. LoL!
October 11th, 2006 at 3:37 pmTell us Exley, what is your work experience?