REALITY CHECK: Iraq Is 22 Times More Violent Than Washington DC
REALITY CHECK: Iraq Is 22 Times More Violent Than Washington DC
Rep. Steve King (R-IA) and others have claimed that living in Iraq is less dangerous than living in Washington DC. King claimed on the House floor, “my wife lives here with me, and I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, she’s at far greater risk being a civilian in Washington, D.C. than an average civilian in Iraq.”
King has always been wrong. A new study by the British medical journal Lancet exposes the extent of his error. According to Lancet, 601,000 people have died in Iraq over the last three years due to violence related to the March 2003 invasion. Here is how violent deaths in Iraq over the last three years stack up to the violent death rate in Washington, DC:
The statistic for Washington DC is from the FBI’s Crime in the United States 2005.
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King has always been wrong.
I bet he gets that a lot.
Time for Rep King and the little woman to take a moonlit stroll down the main street of Fallujah. I’ll throw in the strawberries and champagne.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:24 amMath is not Steve King’s forte.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:27 amMaybe he should send him wife over to Iraq if he thinks Iraq is so safe.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:31 amThe real question is: does Condi Rice have to wear a bullet proof vest when getting off a plane at Ronald Reagan aiport or Dulles?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:35 amWhy do violent deaths hate our freedom?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:37 amLet’s not even get into the fact that Rep. King probably lives in Northwest, where the crime numbers are considerably lower. I suppose it is possible that he lives in Ward 8 – yeah, right!
October 11th, 2006 at 10:37 amWhile attending a rally for Lt. Watada near Fort Lewis, Wa. a few months ago, I spoke to woman from San Diego who was connected with the Lancet study and she told me that their methodology is solid. At that time, they had estimated the number of Iraqi deaths between 100,000 and 250,000. 600,000 Iraqis who have died at the hands of the American military or at least brought about by the unnecessary invasion of their country. This is simply beyond the pale. Impeachment is only the first step that should be brought about against this administration. There should be some way for these people to stand trial for the heinous crimes that they have committed against the Iraqi people. That was the whole point of the Nuremberg trials, that no nation should be exempt from be held accountable for committing war crimes, i.e. crimes against peace and crimes against humanity.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:45 amwhat idiot compares a city stat to a national stat? for at least a modicum of accuracy, he should look at the national death rate of the US – no doubt far less than that of DC….
again – what an absolute moron
October 11th, 2006 at 10:46 amRoger Wilco it’s okay
It’s all yours it’s anything that you say
My company fell in, we were airborne again
the next thing we knew we were dropped like sticks in the wind
I relinquish this mission sir in the interest of my men
I do not expect to see my children again
You have your reinforcements and I take that as a sign
I’m walking back to Austin or at least die trying
MIA or KIA
It’s up to you it’s not for me to say
While I may have mislead you sir, I did not do it with intent
In the beginning I believed that our objective was well meant
But now I’ve seen your tactics and your fire in the hole
This entire operation is a misappropriation of my soul
Roger Wilco it’s okay
Roger Wilco it’s okay
Roger Wilco a-okay
Roger Wilco…
Shawn Colvin
The Bush administration has misappropriated the soul of this nation making us all as accessories to mass murder.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:53 am.
The only question I have for you LIBBIES is WHAT would you have done DIFFERENT if YOU was faced with 9/111
By: CrackHead on October 11, 2006 at 10:26am
I can’t speak for the government criminals in both parties, but ANY thinking Patriot would have taken the dozens of warnings of imminent attack deadly seriously, and ramped up security measures at every airport.
That said…
In the aftermath, I would have investigated the crime scenes as if they were in fact crime scenes, examined the steel for evidence of explosives residue and interrogated Larry Silverstein mercilessly for his complicity in the attacks.
I also would have put the FIVE ISRAELI MOSSAD AGENTS – caught red-handed on 9/11 – on trial.
I would have played their video on network TV – complete with english translation.
I would have revealed the fact that 1/3 of the purported hijackers are still alive – and demanded THE TRUTH.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB.
the NeoCons attacked America under the orders of the REAL PRESIDENT – GHW Bush, and under the direction of one Richard Cheney, who was in charge of NORAD on 9/11 (the very first time in US history that a civilian has been in charge of NORAD).
Bush Sr. – Cheney – Rumsfeld – Israel’s Mossad – Pakistan’s ISI.
They ALL did 9/11.
IRAQ did NOTHING.
Over 100 people in America had foreknowledge of 9/11.
Many of them went to great effort to send you on a wild goose chase for a fake enemy that does not exist – and sought to convince you that Iraq was somehow involved.
IT’S ALL A LIE.
IT’S ALL A LIE.
IT’S ALL A LIE.
HANG THE LIARS.
.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:57 amTruly awful. And Iran will probably be more violent still by at least another order of magnitude (if we’re lucky) or more (if we’re not): Chris Hedges is worried. The former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times says a U.S. carrier group is headed for the Straits of Hormuz and will be in place to strike Iran by the end of the month. “It may be a bluff. It may be a feint. It may be a simple show of American power. But I doubt it,” he writes, warning about the “strange, twilight mentality that now grips most of the civilian planners who are barreling us towards a crisis of epic proportions.” Will Iran be Bush’s October surprise? Will we survive his madness?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:57 am8 – sedrunsic,
October 11th, 2006 at 10:59 amThe national rate over a period of three years is about 16 per 100,000.
Iraq is a Hell-hole of violence, but Bush does not care because he lusts for the oil to please his petroleum industry pals!
October 11th, 2006 at 11:07 amAnd all their blood is on W’s hands.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:12 amMouthing off with just such mindless idiocies is the indispensible tool of the trade for Rep. Steve King (R-IA). By doing so loudly and publicly he and others like him are professing unswerving allegiance to the Neo Reich. Thus they are assured a contstant tap into America’s pockets as reward for their codless loyalty. Nice lucrative work for the rat and his ilk.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:13 amOh my gosh!! A war zone is more violent than a city in the US!?
::GASP::
Well then by all means, we should pull out.
Haha.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:16 amThis is obviously all Bill Clinton’s fault… right McCain?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:36 amCreationists can’t do math, so it’s no wonder this crap works on them.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:39 am.
junior is on all the networks with one of his horseshit press coverages on his failed policies toward Iraq and Korea, all the while trying to dodge and paraphrasing the questions.
What a total, absolute, dipassed, lame-brained dipshit.
Of course, I say that about our president with the upmost respect.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:46 amEven though most of the violence in Iraq takes place in Baghdad, it would be nice if think progess would distinguish between the two, rather than comparing the total violence in a city (D.C.) to the total violence in a country (Iraq).
October 11th, 2006 at 11:59 amAren’t deaths in DC primarily drug related? Is his wife a drug dealer?
October 11th, 2006 at 12:06 pm#20
October 11th, 2006 at 12:11 pmIt was not think progress that posed the comparison. It was Rep. Steve King, R-IA. Read the link to the article.
All but the incorrigible brainwashed knew that King was wrong with his incredibly political comparison.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:12 pmI continue to be surprised at the low levels of intelligence among elected officials. It is proof that the money is what elects them because they sure can’t make it on their analyses and critical thinking processes.
Compelling graphic, but not likely to stop the wingnuts from repeating their venial and racist lies – why do they even bother masking their hatred with the silly rationalizations – come on wingnuts – fess up – just tell the world that you’re hell-bent to kill every last muslim and arab on Earth, using whatever flimsy excuse you can come up with to justify it. You all claim to detest the “pc” thing anyway – cast it off – tell us all about how you hate anyone with brown skin or a different religion – that you really just want them all dead so you can stroll the wal-mart in peace – f***ing cowards.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:25 pm12 – walttheman – i actually have it at 5.4 from national statistics:
October 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmhttp://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html
I just can’t remember the last time a car bomb went off in DC. Sectarian death squads? maybe when the Christian Coalition is in town. King, you truly are a first class moron.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:39 pmA stroll out of the green zone is just a cake walk to one’s death.
October 11th, 2006 at 12:46 pmYou referred to the source of those figures for Washington as some kind of FBI data source.
I’m not going to look at how they came up with those figures, I’m just going to assume that they are based on the actual number of people killed and not a random sampling of 2000 people which was used to predict how many Americans died nationwide.
That’s be just too dumb to quote right ?
Apparently not.
In fact if you really want to test the statement that Iraq (the country) is less dangerous than Washinton (the state) using Lancet then the proper thing to do would be sample 2000 people in Washington and then calculate how many people were killed nationwide in the US using that sample.
Right now you have a graph comparing actual death figures VS not.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pmha! – then along came tank to prove my point.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:23 pmSTOP CLOUDING THE ISSUE WITH THE FACTS!!!!
October 11th, 2006 at 2:24 pmYour point was apparently that people want to kill arabs.
How exactly did you see me pointing out that comparing real figures to unsupported estimates in a graph is poor form supporting that conclusion ?
Just not think that far through eh ? Bit too much of a stretch to not only come up with your point but recognise it when you see it again. Awesome.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:29 pmI was not referring to Tank. His comment is flawed on MANY levels and doesn’t contain “FACTS”.
The comparison was between Washington DC actual deaths as a percent of the total population of DC vs. actual deaths in Iraq as a percent of the total population of Iraq.
That is a reasonable comparison.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:30 pmI just read Rep King’s comments.
So I am supposed to trust the National Security of our Nation to this moron?
He doesn’t notice the difference between Baghdad and Washington D.C.?
So if, God forbid, all hell breaks out in D.C. and the level of violence approaches that of Baghdad – I should expect him to say …
“This is okay … why wife and children have managed to be safe with this level of violence just fine. What’s the problem? …”
Some may say – “he recognizes the difference – he is making a distinction between violence in a particular city … D.C. vs. that of an entire nation … Iraq
So this is what I should expect from Rep King in an emergency? Play games with city vs. foreign nation statisitcs? And then declare everything to be ‘all – f#cking – right’ … ?
After reading this – doesn’t it become clear why the Katrina debacle went down the way it did? So much more time spent on “spin” by people like King instead of action and solutions.
After he is done parsing his words and playing games with the numbers and hiding behind the semantics – the fact of the matter is that there is no place in The U.S. that is like this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14895655/
How the f#ck can King be aware that this is happening in Baghdad and then actually move his mouth to make an ‘argument’ that he hopes will persuade even a single person to agree that the situation in Iraq is “okay” … ?
Some have noted that much of the D.C. violence is drug related. I am familiar with the rough parts of D.C. – and what you say is true.
It is also true is that when someone in the drug trade has a gun to their head – they cannot “opt out” of their execution by declaring their desire to be part of “the national average.” No more than an Iraqi in Baghdad can “opt” to be part of “the national average” when facing death from a rival – religious, or otherwise.
With King’s logic – we shouldn’t even bother having fire departments.
Anywhere.
If a house is on fire – sure – that house may be above 1000 degrees fahrenheit. But if you take the national average of all homes at that moment there is really nothing to worry about … Right? … At least if you think like Rep. King …
Wow.
Rep. King.
What a f#cking putz.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:37 pmrighties, including King, have repeatedly tried to justify their failure in Iraq by saying that it’s no more dangerous than some of our cities, which is ridiculous, and continues to be ridiculous, and no amount of messenger attacking or hairsplitting changes that. righties need to start getting comfortable with the fact they chose the wrong horse in this race, and they are responsible for the biggest, bloodiest failure of the new century.
veiled racism (that big-city black people will kill you) being used to support outright racism (iraq will be our muslim bugzapper, attracting and killing all the skeeters that would bite us) that’s some proud stuff there, bro.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:43 pmI was not referring to Tank. His comment is flawed on MANY levels and doesn’t contain “FACTSâ€.
The comparison was between Washington DC actual deaths as a percent of the total population of DC vs. actual deaths in Iraq as a percent of the total population of Iraq.
That is a reasonable comparison.
Comment by Zeke — October 11, 2006 @ 2:30 pm
It would be if the “actual deaths” in Iraq were used in this comparison, which they aren’t here.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:49 pmonly tank and his friends know and agree on that number, and they’re not sharing it, because we were rude to them….
October 11th, 2006 at 2:55 pmCan anybody point out where the “green zone” in Washington DC is? Because my dad and my little brother just went on the annual Jr High trip there and they didn’t have to stay in the green zone, I asked.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:12 pmSteve King is dumb. He is a know-nothing… he’s a puppet for the House of Bush.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:14 pmI love this site, but I question these statistics.
First, there’s really no perfect measurement of how many iraqi deaths there have been since the start of the war. DC deaths are a bit more understood.
Secondly, how can you try to match a country’s death rate with a city’s death rate? How about matching the death rate in Baghdad versus DC?
King’s an idiot, but Think Progress should realize that it’s a dumb analogy to begin with.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#25 – sedrunsic,
October 11th, 2006 at 4:09 pmI was using the sum of 2003-2005 for my estimate. The Iraqi deaths have occured over a three year period or so.
#39
Brian Spence
Here you go …
Taking Baghdad for instance, the Brookings Institution’s Iraq Index estimates an annualized murder rate of 95 per 100,000 Iraqis for that city, a rate more than 2.5 times as high as D.C.’s. (Brookings notes this number may be “too low since many murder victims are never taken to the morgue, but buried quickly and privately and therefore never recorded in official tallies.â€)
It may also be too low since things have gotten to be more violent since these stats were tallied (I think they are 2004 figures).
So it is probably safe to say that Baghdad is at least 2.5 times worse and maybe 5 times worse.
Last, the “nature” of the violence is different. Slowly navigating around a “stalled” car in DC is just an annoying little fact of life with urban trafic. Slowly navigating around a “stalled” car in Baghdad is a completely different thing.
October 11th, 2006 at 4:13 pmBaghdad has a population of approximately 2.5 million. An average of 45 bodies from violent events show up on average each day. That’s 1.8 violent deaths per day per 100,000 people. There are 365 days in a year. That in turn works out to 457 violent deaths per 100,000 people per year in Baghdad alone, and Baghdad is a comparitively calm city.
October 11th, 2006 at 4:46 pmIn #42, 457 should be 657. I had Steve King check my math!
October 11th, 2006 at 4:56 pm#4: The real question is: does Condi Rice have to wear a bullet proof vest when getting off a plane at Ronald Reagan airport or Dulles?
nothanks nailed it.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:37 amBut what about all the kids throwing flowers at the troops, Mr. Cheney?
October 12th, 2006 at 4:52 pm[...] Page Summary: A new study by the British medical journal Lancet exposes the extent of his error. According to Lancet, 601,000 people have died in Iraq over the last three years due to violence related to the March 2003 invasion. At that time, they had estimated the number of Iraqi deaths between 100,000 and 250,000. Impeachment is only the first step that should be brought about against this administration.read more | digg story [...]
October 27th, 2006 at 6:50 amTHINK ABOUT THIS FACT:
If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the
November 12th, 2006 at 9:04 pmIraq theater of operations during the past 22 months, and a total of
2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers. The firearm death rate in Washington, DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same
period. That mean that you are about 25% more likely to be shot & killed in the
US capital, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the US,
than you are in Iraq. Conclusion? The US should pull out of Washington.