McCain Covers Up For Bush’s Nuclear Failures
McCain Covers Up For Bush’s Nuclear Failures
Senator John McCain’s claim that Bill Clinton is responsible for North Korea’s nuclear test this week is dead wrong. He should know better.
One more time, here are the facts:
North Korea’s bombs are built with plutonium. They produce their plutonium in a reactor they built during the Reagan presidency, starting around 1984. They separated enough plutonium for perhaps two bombs during the first Bush presidency.
When they tried to make more plutonium under President Bill Clinton, he said he would go to war to stop them. He had plans prepared for the attack. The North Koreans backed down.
Bill Clinton froze the program in its tracks. North Korea did not separate a gram of plutonium while Bill Clinton was in office. He also stopped their missile tests.
George Bush walked away from the deal in his first months in office. In March 2001, Secretary of State Colin Powell said he wanted “to continue the process begun under Clinton.” Bush cut him down.
U.S. intelligence had detected signs near the end of the Clinton years that the North Koreans were trying to evade the freeze by beginning a uranium program. When confronted with the evidence in 2002, the North Koreans admitted it and offered to put that program on the table as part of a comprehensive deal. Bush used it as an excuse to walk away from negotiations. He thought he did not need to talk to the North Koreans. He thought he could overthrow the regime.
He failed. He issued threats and drew lines in the sand. The North Koreans walked right past them. They threw out the IAEA inspectors in December 2002, while Bush was preparing to invade Iraq. The month after the invasion, they withdrew from the Non-Proliferation Treaty. In 2005, they reprocessed plutonium from the fuel rods Clinton had made them keep in pools under IAEA inspection. They took another load of fuel out of the reactor and processed more plutonium. They reloaded the reactor to make even more plutonium. They tested missiles, they made bombs, now they have tested a bomb.
Bush did nothing.
This is Bush’s Bomb. All the plutonium made for these bombs was made either during his presidency or his father’s. To blame his failure on Bill Clinton should not be allowed to stand. Senator McCain should be ashamed.
Note: Joe Cirincione held a teleconference call today with former Defense Secretary William Perry and top U.S. official on North Korea policy Wendy Sherman. Click HERE to listen.
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October 11th, 2006 at 5:34 pmMcCain = Typical Republican Scumbag
October 11th, 2006 at 5:36 pmJohn McCain, the trojan-horse Maverick.
-GSD
October 11th, 2006 at 5:38 pmI like how the Maverick absolves Bush of the last six years as if the time between when Clinton left office and the this past Sunday never actually happened. The man has no shame.
October 11th, 2006 at 5:38 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
Smack. Down. Well-written.
October 11th, 2006 at 5:38 pmSomeone please help me. I may have missed something. Just how incredibly stupid is George Bush? How stupid are the republicans that continue to bow to his feet? John McCain has just lost whatever respect I may have had left for him. How much more of this boondoggle are we going to have to take?
October 11th, 2006 at 5:39 pmThis is Bush’s bomb, and it was a failed test at that. Sorry Right Wingers, Clinton’s approach was effective, no tests during his time as president. He played a game with NK, and was effective at it. Why can’t Karl figure out how to deal with NK?
October 11th, 2006 at 5:39 pmIt’s raining here now. Is that Bill Clinton’s fault too?
October 11th, 2006 at 5:41 pmI’ve been waiting for the day when the rest of the world jumps out and yells “surprise” this is actually Season II (Bush’s 2nd term) of “Only in America” some reality T.V. show that everyone else is in on except for us.
It can’t really be this bad, can it?
October 11th, 2006 at 5:46 pmHe thought he did not need….
He thought he could…..
Mr. Cirincione is being much to kind in thinking that the twit actually thought….
October 11th, 2006 at 5:48 pm6&7, just to help out, Dr.. First, they are very, very stupid; second, yes, the rain is also Bill Clinton’s fault. Third, in anticipation of your next question, yes, McCain is the kookiest flip-flopper and hypocrite in the GOP (and yes, I am aware of Stevens and his “tubes” thing).
October 11th, 2006 at 5:48 pmmaverick
October 11th, 2006 at 5:50 pman unbranded range animal (especially a stray calf); belongs to the first “cowboy” who promises him the Presidency if he plays along.
Mr Evil,
October 11th, 2006 at 5:57 pmIt’s about time. I hope that statements like this will help convince more people who should know better that McCain is a fraud, but he’s made so many of them that have been glossed over that I don’t think it’ll happen. The press fawns over this guy, promotes him, uses his slogans in news reports (”straight talk”), and seems on a mission to put him in the White House. And a lot of liberals buy it.
Why does McCain hate America and help perpetrate lies?
October 11th, 2006 at 6:05 pmExley? MA? Paul? Roger_Roger?
Any comments?
Of course not.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:06 pmThe more McCain LIES, the more the truth gets out there. McCain has been castrated by the republican party who uses them as their spokes-stooge. How proud he must be. How ashamed his family must be. Nice work, John.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:12 pmWhen confronted with the evidence in 2002, the North Koreans admitted it and offered to put that program on the table as part of a comprehensive deal.
Okay, this is TP evidence that the negotiated deal was not working. N. Koreans were not negotiating in good faith.
When TP starts supplying evidence that Republicans are the adult supervision, progressives are in big trouble.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:12 pmI absolutely hate his phony expression: big, puppy-dog eyes combined with that Lieberman-like pout. He’s an awful man, who has no sense of humanity. It’s as if he now identifies with torturers, rather than empathizing with those who are tortured.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:13 pmThis man would be just as dangerous as Bush if he were elected President.
Madeleine Albright in a PBS interview: “They did cheat. There’s no question. But I think that there would have been a way, in an agreement, to get them to explain what they were doing and hope that that would be a way to mitigate the issue, but it’s not a reason not to have agreements with them.”
October 11th, 2006 at 6:20 pmWhat? You think its easy being Bush’s buttwipe?
October 11th, 2006 at 6:21 pmAgain, what is the problem with 6 party talks? Oh, that’s right, when N. Korea breaks the agreement, they can’t blame it on the agressive Bush Administration.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:22 pmOh, that’s right, when N. Korea breaks the agreement, they can’t blame it on the agressive Bush Administration.
Comment by paul
Open your mouth when your country isnt the ONLY country that has dropped the ONLY two nuclear bombs against another country…and over civilians.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:26 pmOh, you cant. Shut up.
Ask your conservatives friends (if you still have ‘em) why they want to vote for an administration which couldn’t undo all the damage the Bill Clinton did, with even six years of unopposed rule?
October 11th, 2006 at 6:38 pmOh, that’s right, when N. Korea breaks the agreement, they can’t blame it on the agressive Bush Administration.
Comment by paul
No, that blame can be laid right at the junior-in-chief’s feet. He was talking shit in 2001 and 2002 and everyone in the Middle East and Korea was strangly quiet and scared to open their mouths. And rightly so.
Now of course, junior has mired us in Iraq along with our exhausted troops, and the Koreans and Iranians both know we have turned into a paper tiger.
I know what, Paul. Why not start spreading some crap about how we are keeping our troops in Iraq so the North Koreans will have to fight us there instead of fighting them here. That old BS seems to work every time on the most gullible of our citizens.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:38 pmI love your headliner and the pic that goes with it. The “definitionof security”.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:39 pmWow a new demented ………
The independent voter will say: “Hey, are you blaming Clinton AGAIN ???” That’s why the GOP will not continue with this, even if it gets Hannity wet to the bone !!
October 11th, 2006 at 6:43 pmJohn McCain is totally bloated with kool-aid. He is obviously drinking it faster than he can piss it out.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:43 pmToday, the slimy snake is saying “let’s not fingerpoint.” Maybe he’s concerned Clinton will be given prime time to rebut and rip him a new one.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:46 pmMcCain is living proof the ‘touture’ messes with your mind …forever. We have a pres. with no brain, we sure won’t trade it for a damaged one.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:48 pmPlease. Only a fool would believe that North Korea made no plutonium for their “bombs” – and I say that with my tongue in my cheek, considering that their test was a colossal failure – during Bill Clinton’s time in office. Albright practically got down on her knees and fellated Kim Jong Il, they were so chummy. If anything, it is more logical to believe that the North Koreans most likely made the bulk of thier plutonium DURING the Clinton years, when they had us completely hoodwinked. Get REAL people.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:49 pmYa have to start here… Bill had more brain power than baby bush. Clinton at least “tried” or instinctly knew how to handle the situation. One DOPE and One SMART GUY. I like the SMART GUY. BUBBA! But I don”t know about hillllary? But, Bill’s a closet kind of guy. Points for Bubba.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:50 pmPoor John. His sad devotion to that cretin Bush has not helped him conjure up the fame he covets, or given him clairvoyance enough to find the
October 11th, 2006 at 6:50 pmkey to getting elected president…
Wishful thinking Paul. But In 2002 George cut off the oil to Korea being supplied thru the framework agreement. Kimmie soon started enriching again.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:53 pmThis is the kinda story that must be hit on. Drive the “hyprocacy” down the throats of the pukes.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:53 pmYou have anything to back up your ‘theory’?
October 11th, 2006 at 6:56 pmI have to love that the NK propaganda is back seat here. I’m on the outside lookin at the “net ” instead “kc on cbs”. I’m winning.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:01 pmI’m guessing that you are lucky not to be speaking German or Japanese.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:02 pmI have no Idea what country you are from nor do I care. What I do know is that MY country is resposible for the freedom most of the world now enjoys. I’m not discounting the efforts by other countries during WWII but had it not been for our help those freedoms would not exist today.
Sounds like something a pundit would make up ARA and why your argument has no weight. Colorful language means nothing as your logic is based on emnity.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:02 pmMcCain has zero integrity, he’s in line with the rest of the warmongers and profiteers and has been every step of the way. He capitulated on the torture issue and I never had any doubt that he would. He is an accomplice to the Cheney regime’s destruction of our Constitution.
That said, I think he’s played his political cards pretty effectively (and with a useless mainstream media it ain’t hard) and we all better get used to him because I see the misinformed/apathetic middle getting behind him. Unless he screws up something major, he’s our next president.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:05 pmSteve, you haven’t been a keen student of history have you?
Pay fuc*ing attention!
October 11th, 2006 at 7:07 pmB-b-b-but Clinton! Sheesh. Anyway that is a great article. That info should be posted everywhere.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:08 pmJust think about putting a “tortured’ man in charge of “the world”.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:12 pmNice empty rebuttal.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:13 pmSteve – we didn’t invent “Freedom” or “Democracy”. I’m American, and I love my country, but I don’t use that as an excuse to rewrite world history. We speak English because we were a colony of Great Britain. We fought a Revolution for independence because the French provided the ideological framework, the concrete example, and a lot of the resources that allowed the revolution to succeed. Keep the patriotic red herring in the old fishbasket.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:13 pmNK was developing a nuke capability under King George the Elder and redoubled their effort when King George the Dumb stole the throne. For the eight years of a President between the two dunces NK saw no need to defend themselves from some petty despot with a big mouth, a crazy ass-kissing Cabinet, an ass for an advisor, and no brains. If I were the leader of NK I too would be doing everything to protect my Country from the Chimp in Charge of the USA.
When King George the Dumb is dethroned our Country and the World can resume our collective co-existence. Stupid is forever but DUHbya’s reign as King will soon be terminated.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:14 pmEmperor George’s reign is an utter failure…
By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
WASHINGTON -
President Bush unapologetically defended his approach to
North Korea’s nuclear weapons program Wednesday, pledging he would not change course despite contentions that Pyongyang’s apparent atomic test proved the failure of his nearly six years of effort…
Anyone really feel safer with BushCo running the MonkeyPalace?
October 11th, 2006 at 7:15 pmARA blames Clinton ’cause someone else hates Bush – what the hell does any of that have to do with any-f-ing-thing? It is what it is, and if you can’t accept the charge that there were no eyes on the NK ball for the last 6 years, you’re a wuss gripped with denial.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:16 pmThis Senator boarders on the “outright scary”.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:16 pmTom, I’m not debating who invented democracy. I’m saying if we would have not entered into WWII when we did the world stood a good chance of losing the freedoms they have today. Had we not dropped the nukes how many more years would we have been fighting how many more lives would have been lost? You have the ability now to express yorself because of the actions of our fathers and grandfathers.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:19 pm#49 – …Stupid is forever but DUHbya’s reign as King will soon be terminated.
Well said. Everyone is worm food.
However, my concern is that Emperor George will find a way to make the WhiteHouse his home for longer than his original term in office.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:20 pmYeah I feel alot safer than the approach Clinton pursued. Giving aid and money for an empty promise with no verification. The worst part about it is… OUR tax money helped pay to develop thier nuke program. Today if Bush did the same thing Clinton did it would still be wrong to most of you.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:23 pm#53 – …Had we not dropped the nukes how many more years would we have been fighting how many more lives would have been lost?…
You obviously have not read Richard Rhodes on this topic. Those nukes you tout as “saving lives” actually were used to prolong the war. The Emperor of Japan had already offered surrender in March of that year. But the nukes weren’t ready and the Navy and Air Force were still fighting over who got to drop them for their “live test” scenarios. If you go back and read what the Emperor of Japan offered in March and what was actually agreed to after the US dropped those nukes you’ll see that the surrender terms were unchanged.
Seriously, you should read Richard Rhodes book on the topic.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:24 pm#56 – What part of Bill Clinton froze the program in its tracks. North Korea did not separate a gram of plutonium while Bill Clinton was in office. He also stopped their missile tests. don’t you understand?
October 11th, 2006 at 7:26 pm“A-Real-American” wants us to “get real” and understand how preferable Bush’s approach to N. Korea is than Clinton’s. After all, Bush has used his 5 years to tie up all the loose ends and fix the problem. And, we can see the glorious results today! All hail the dear leader!!
October 11th, 2006 at 7:31 pmWrong.
The Truth on the Clinton North Korea legacy of appeasment.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:33 pmSteve, as a supporter of a president who has vomited away the biggest budget surplus in our nation’s history and turned us into the biggest debtor nation in world history, I don’t think you have any right to complain about what “our tax dollars” are doing in Korea. If you really were worried about our tax dollars, and you were not a crazy person, then you wouldn’t be supporting Bush.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:35 pmAnd now, by eliminating habeas corpus, starting a unprovoked war of aggression, and legitimizing torture, Bush, with the help of guys like McCain, have rolled back a great big portion of that glorious achievement of freedom for the whole world to enjoy. Any comment on that, Steve, or does that, too, just pale in comparison to something that Bill Clinton did or didn’t do?
October 11th, 2006 at 7:36 pmMuckdog, is there anything Bush could have done during the last five years to rectify what you call the “legacy of appeasment?” He’s had five years…. anything? I mean, if it’s been so damn bad, why haven’t your people done something about it. Sounds like a pre-9-11 mindset to me. What’s wrong with republicans?
October 11th, 2006 at 7:37 pmSteve, and YOUR country has become the worlds largest TERRORIST STATE, in the world’s eyes.
Yes,60 years ago, the United States was a champion of freedom and liberty. Now it is seen as the champion of torture, secret renditions, government evesdropping, and imperialistic wars of agression. The United States has become the very beast it fought against some 60 years ago.
What we have become under the Reign of Bush is not what our forefathers fought and died for, but what they fought against.
The question is, Steve, what are you doing to preserve those liberties and freedoms which are being cast aside one bill, one signing statement at a time? Some 200 plus years ago, our forefathers took up arms against a different Tyrant named George. Would you do the same? Look at the list of grievances in the Declaration of Independence. Are any of them echoed today? Is the One-Party Congress similar to Britian’s Parliament of yore?
You tossed out the “talking point” of the sacrifices made by service men and women in WWII, but missed the larger picture. Hence the suggestion you study your American History, a subject which I have had the pleasure of teaching these past couple of years.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:39 pmI’m tired of Bush appeasing the Saudis, who bred Bin Laden, and the majority of the 9/11 highjackers, and the hateful wahabbi ideology they cleave to – there’s my appeasement complaint. Second the motion, anyone?
October 11th, 2006 at 7:41 pmWhy didn’t Clinton build the light water reactors? It seems that the NKs launched a modified Taepodong-1 missile. This missile flew over Japan causing the Japanese government to retract 1 billion in aid for two civilian light-water reactors.
So lets look at it again they had enough plutonium to build 10 bombs.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:41 pmThey were testing missles under Clinton”s watch. Not only that he never made them dismantle the old reactors. Then he hands Bush a handful of SHIT and says he did the best he could. Then his wife and I use the term loosely, comes out and says how Bush has failed us.
#56: Try to see it from our point of view- Bill Clinton, no NK nuke test, economic expansion, tiny WTC attack, peace, budget surplus. GWB, NK nuke test, sputtering economy, terrible WTC attack, eternal war, massive deficit. See, this is why we think GWB is worse. It just LOOKS that way, somehow.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:42 pm#54 JC
Only if the son of a bitch is buried there.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:46 pm#59 – come on buddy – no support for condemning Bush’s Legacy of Saudi appeasement?? I mean, seriously, you’re either against appeasement, or you’re for it – which is it??
October 11th, 2006 at 7:48 pmThey were testing missles under Clintonâ€s watch. Not only that he never made them dismantle the old reactors. Then he hands Bush a handful of SHIT and says he did the best he could. Then his wife and I use the term loosely, comes out and says how Bush has failed us.
The ’shit’ was handed down thru Reagan to Carter to Bush Sr. then to Clinton then to Shrub who dropped the ball.
Nuclear history of Korea didn’t begin with Clinton it began with Reagan and the Soviets.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:50 pmIncredible. Simply incredible. After a number of months away I see that the same exact thing is going on, just different monikers.
You’ve got “Steve” the brainwashed attempting to place the credit for all of the great things in the world upon the flag of the USA, and re-inventing history in the process. Astounding.
Then you’ve got “paul†flailing around like a fool trying to point the finger at whomever it thinks will be most beneficial to its political affiliations to pin the “blame†on. What an idiot. With its logic, Harry Truman should be blamed for not killing all the North Koreans in the first place. Or better yet, let’s blame George Washington for not starting a war with Korea immediately upon formation of the US. Your logic moron, not mine.
And then there’s “A+R+Aâ€, who I seem to recognize as IRI. This pathetic excuse of a human being is so insecure about itself that it just wants to shoot everything in sight and wraps itself in the flag of your nation hoping that the honor and dignity that it once represented would somehow seep into its meaningless and unworthy existence.
But, of course, you all still do not that you are chasing your own tails while you shat upon yourself and everything around you. A credible (and, no, bush’s claim to the contrary is not, well, credible) report comes out telling you Americans that you are personally responsible for the deaths of 650,000 innocent Iraqi CHILDREN, WOMEN, and MEN, and the issues at the forefront of your discussions are whether your bush is an idiot and incompetent, whether your representatives are perverted scum, and whether an overpaid athlete crashed his toy into the side of a building. Let me save you some time; yes, yes, and yes.
Now let me add some perspective to your miserable lives. Who has murdered more innocent people, Saddam, Kim Jung il, or you, the USA? Now, to those who will say that it is bush and not the people who have murdered the 650,000 innocent Iraqis, return to your sixth grade civics class so that you can learn about your government.
How do you all look at yourselves in the mirror? Your honor is gone. Your dignity is nonexistent. You claim a moral high ground while actually existing below sea level. Do you really need to argue with morons so as to achieve some sense of self worth?
The time for action is now upon us, the “us†being humanity. You have to ask yourself a serious question, and that is “Do I fight for what’s right, or do I act a coward and serve an evil purpose?â€
Think about it.
May peace be with us all.
October 11th, 2006 at 7:54 pmBush is following the same basic path as Germany, I suppose you forget the neo-cons Fukuyama and their clash of civilization? Newt Calling this WWIII? George threatening half the world? You talk about freedom when Bush admitted to warrantless wiretaps and rendition? A thousand years of peace thru war and world domination?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:01 pmThe key word here is ‘believed’. The ‘reprocessed’ material you speak of came from the graphite reactors, that is why it was reprocessed [re-enriched]
October 11th, 2006 at 8:03 pmNo nuke test – They were developing and had not yet achieved the test stage. But with the aid of money Clinton sent them it helped move the program along.
Peace – 1992-95 — Somalia. “Operation Restore Hope” Somali Civil War On December 10, 1992, President Bush reported that he had deployed US armed forces to Somalia in response to a humanitarian crisis and a UN Security Council Resolution. The operation came to an end on May 4, 1993. US forces continued to participate in the successor United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM II). (See also Battle of Mogadishu)
1993-Present — Bosnia/Yugoslavia/Kosovo.
1993 — Macedonia. On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 US soldiers to the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.
1993-95 — Haiti. Operation Uphold Democracy US ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 US military troops were later deployed to Haiti.
1994 — Macedonia. On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the US contingent in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.
1995 — Bosnia. NATO bombing of Bosnian Serbs. (See Operation Deliberate Force)
1996 — Liberia. On April 11, 1996, President Clinton reported that on April 9, 1996 due to the “deterioration of the security situation and the resulting threat to American citizens” in Liberia he had ordered US military forces to evacuate from that country “private US citizens and certain third-country nationals who had taken refuge in the US Embassy compound….”
1996 — Central African Republic. On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of US military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of “private US citizens and certain U.S. Government employees,” and to provide “enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui.”
1997 — Albania. On March 13, 1997, US military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. Government employees and private US citizens from Tirana, Albania.
1997 — Congo and Gabon. On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of US military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.
1997 — Sierra Leone. On May 29 and May 30, 1997, US military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain US government employees and private US citizens.
1997 — Cambodia. On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 US military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations.
1998 — Iraq. US-led bombing campaign against Iraq. (See Operation Desert Fox)
1998 — Guinea-Bissau. On June 10, 1998, in response to an army mutiny in Guinea-Bissau endangering the US Embassy, President Clinton deployed a standby evacuation force of US military personnel to Dakar, Senegal, to evacuate from the city of Bissau.
1998 – 1999 Kenya and Tanzania. US military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
1998 — Afghanistan and Sudan. Operation Infinite Reach On August 20th, air strikes were used against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.
1998 — Liberia. On September 27, 1998 America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 US military personnel to increase the security force at the US Embassy in Monrovia.
1999 – 2001 East Timor. East Timor Independence Limited number of US military forces deployed with UN to restore peace to East Timor.
1999 — NATO’s bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo Conflict.
2000 — Sierra Leone. On May 12, 2000, President Clinton reported that he had ordered a US Navy patrol craft to deploy to Sierra Leone to be ready to support evacuation operations from that country if needed
2000 — Yemen. On October 14, 2000, President Clinton reported that on October 12, 2000, in the wake of an attack on the USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, he had authorized deployment of military personnel to Aden.
2001 — Afghanistan. US invasion of Afghanistan The War on Terrorism begins with Operation Enduring Freedom. On October 7, 2001, US Armed Forces “began combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaida terrorists and their Taliban supporters.”
2002 — Yemen. On November 3, 2002, an American RQ-1 Predator fired a Hellfire missile at a car in Yemen killing Qaed Senyan al-Harthi, an al-Qaeda leader thought to be responsible for the USS Cole bombing.
2002 — Philippines. At the Philippine Government’s invitation, the President had ordered deployed “combat-equipped and combat support forces to train with, advise, and assist” the Philippines’ Armed Forces in enhancing their “existing counterterrorist capabilities.”
2002 — Cote d’Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Cote d’Ivoire, US military personnel went into Cote d’Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens Bouake.
2003 — 2003 invasion of Iraq Second Persian Gulf War. March 20, 2003. The United States leads a coalition that includes Britain, to invade Iraq with the stated goal of eliminating Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. By May 1, 2003, President Bush declares “mission accomplished.” Occupation of Iraq by foriegn military forces continues.
2003 — Liberia. Second Liberian Civil War On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported that on June 8 he had sent about 35 combat-equipped US military personnel into Monrovia, Liberia, to help secure the US Embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.
2003 –Georgia and Djibouti “US combat equipped and support forces” had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their “counterterrorist capabilities.”
ok I see where you are coming from that looks like peace to a liberal.
Economic Expansion – ROFL Dow at all new highs unemployment at all time lows.
tiny WTC Attack – Are you suggesting that if Clinton would have been in office we might have had just another tiny WTC Attack? Please.
Budget Surplus - first Clinton inherited a good economy and then we had hmm WTC Attack not to mention Enron.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:10 pmWhen you tell someone they are evil I think you’re obliged to kill them.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:10 pmAnd when you’re going to be killed you defend yourself.
Millions of innocent people must die in the Republicans’ mad pursuit of forcing the world to live under their perverted version of freedom and democracy.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:12 pmClinton wouldn’t have built them first of all, and secondly the Reactors would have been built by a company in Zurich ABB which lo-and behold, Rumsfeld sat on the board of.
You get that Steve?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:14 pm#73 “WHEN YOU TELL A LIE TELL A HUGE LIE, OR TELL SO MANY THAT IT WILL OVERWHELM THE SUBJECT”…
October 11th, 2006 at 8:17 pmOk you all have had a say about what was done wrong, I’ve done it myself. My question is this.
Clinton tried 1 on 1 talks with NK and made an agreement that neither followed through on. NK got aid and we got nothing.
Bush looks at this and says it didn’t work and he refuses to talk to NK. He suggest that NK’s neighbors press NK to behave. We gave nothing we got nothing.
So if we follow the logic not to repeat our mistakes what should we do next?
One note however… this is the first time China has ever said NK needs to be punished.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:21 pmSteve, it’s just sad to see anyone with such a hardon against another person, President or otherwise, that they can’t see or think of anything or anyone else. I don’t think anyone here has as much hate in their heart for W as you do for Clinton – what’s the prob? how did he piss in your personal corn flakes? Did your wife blow him, too?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:24 pmEnron? You mean old Kenny Boy that George denied knowing I don’t know how many times and then when he died he finally fessed up and attended Kenny-boys funeral?
Thats rich.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:29 pm#78 First of all Steve….. Point by Point….Bush looks at this and says it didn’t work and he refuses to talk to NK. Yes, but he puts the comment “Axis of Evil” in his State of the Union Speech so that raises some red flags.He suggest that NK’s neighbors press NK to behave. Who are we to publiclly tell people what to do, we lost the art and science of back channel discussions.We gave nothing we got nothing.Yes we gave something, THREATS! and now that we can’t back them up with military force except for airstrikes, we look like fools….. And we now have a Nuclear armed North Korea where as at least
October 11th, 2006 at 8:31 pmClinton stalled them and we had cameras in the reactors monitoring the facilities by the IAEA.One note however… this is the first time China has ever said NK needs to be punished. And why is that? because they have to…..
Dog, Why didn’t Bush just let Rumsfield build the reactors?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:32 pmThe Agreed Framework was signed in 1994.
Clinton left office when? He did what after signing this agreement? He gave them aid and then he turned his back as to not see a problem because diplomacy is supposed to just work.
it’s true that not all the effects of someones presidency are felt for some years after the fact, but for God sake, McCain just needs to look at some facts. He’s such a meat puppet.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:35 pmTom, where do you see hate? I’m stating facts and if that looks like hate, that must just be your biased look at the world.
Its a typical liberal response when you can’t match facts to get personal or name call.
As for your earlier statement I personally have not seen any of my freedoms infringed upon.
I don’t make phone calls to terrorist.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:38 pmI’m not a terrorist expecting to have the same rights as Americans.
I’m not a terrorist laundering money in another country.
Did I miss anything?
#82 Steve, their build up was a secret plan that was totally seperate of the Monitored IAEA inspection team that was unable to be inspected because they”cheated” by cheating meaning they were assh#les and dishonest… not negotiating with them doesn’t prevent them from doing niether.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:45 pmAs for your earlier statement I personally have not seen any of my freedoms infringed upon.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:51 pmI don’t make phone calls to terrorist.
Comment by Steve — October 11, 2006 @ 8:38 pm
Tell me that’s a typo…or are you like Bush and you cant call it terrorism only “TERROR, THE WAR ON TERROR” Instead of the War on Terrorism…What the F@ck? And…. If and when they “Infringe” on your”freedoms” what makes you think you are going to know about it? You are in the same net as the rest of us. When they fish for Tuna they do catch Dolphins ya know…DA.
110 bodies found in Baghdad in last 24 hours — how about that Bush failure?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:51 pmRen I understand that. So now you what to try to negotiate with a Cheater?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:52 pmNot me. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice……..
Ren I understand that. So now you what to try to negotiate with a Cheater?
October 11th, 2006 at 8:56 pmNot me. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice……..
Comment by Steve — October 11, 2006 @ 8:52 pm
HEY STEVE YOU MEAN…….There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again.
Humanist,
While I don’t agree that the report of 650,000 have died in Iraq.
October 11th, 2006 at 8:58 pmThe report claims that 31% is attritible to US action. That is 201,500. Of that number how many do you think are enemy combatants? This supposed credible report is nothing more than a poll…. a sampling. Its easy to take a sample in the hardest hit areas and then apply it to the entire country to get the numbers you need to push an agenda. This is a guess not fact. Oh BTW I live in the greatest country in the world.
Steve, your Clinton/liberal hating (for the record, Clinton was more republican than liberal) obscures everything else from your view.
NK has a nuke – the question of what president did what when couldn’t be less relevant to the discussion re: what does the US do when NK has a nuke.
Given the Bush team’s lack of success in every area of foreign policy, a pragmatist might say, let’s leave it to China, S. Korea, and Japan to sort that one out. We have our hands full of a terrible, expensive mess of our own making, and probably should’t be biting off, again, more than we can chew.
It is not, never was, and never should be the mission of the USA to run the whole goddamned world, and if you think we should, then you’re a crazy bastard, no better than the kim jung il’s and sun-myung moon’s of the world.
NK’s nuke is not your problem Steve….the pissing away of $2 billion a week in Iraq is – what are you going to do about it?
October 11th, 2006 at 9:05 pm#91 STEVE YOU ARE SO F*UCKING WEAK!This supposed credible report is nothing more than a poll…. a sampling. Its easy to take a sample in the hardest hit areas and then apply it to the entire country to get the numbers you need to push an agenda. This is a guess not fact. Oh BTW I live in the greatest country in the world.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:06 pmThis is statistical analysis jackoff…. they polled over 12,000 people and wether the sampling was from Bagdad or not, they apply the numbers to the same sampling area to get the statistic… Do you know anything?
Economy is GREAT if you are rich and a corperation.
Unempolyment numbers are down when you do not
count those who stopped looking and then add those
working in miminum wage jobs with no benefits.
peddle your crap elsewhere fascist pig.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:08 pm#68 the appeasement of the Saudis has been going on since 1973.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:10 pmBy the way Steeeeeve, if the economy is so great then why???????…………Over 650 of the nation’s leading economists
October 11th, 2006 at 9:11 pmtoday called on Congress to increase the minimum wage. The group recommended a $1 to $2.50 hourly increase and argued that “future boosts should be indexed to inflation to protect workers purchasing power from rising prices.â€
I’m busy with work right now, so I’m just going to copy/paste from Wikipedia. Also, if I can find it, a 1998 article in Scientific American.
“A North Korean missile test occurred on May 29 and 30 of 1993. North Korea fired the Nodong-1 missile into the Sea of Japan.
“A North Korean missile test occurred on August 31, 1998. North Korea tested the Taepodong-1 missile. It flew past Japan and into the Pacific Ocean (south of Vladivostok, Russia and Northwest of Japan).”
Sorry, can’t find the SciAm article….
October 11th, 2006 at 9:17 pmTom Tom, Whew!
Talk about hate……….It is the mission of our Federal Government,….. not the medicare, social security, not all the programs, to protect the citizens. That is the main responsibilty they have.
Again with the name calling……. Maybe you should seek some anger management therapy.
I for one think it is best to fight our enemys OUTSIDE our borders. You are fooling yourself to think we would be safe if we just did nothing. You feed yourself a diet of bad news that supports your views. My being here at least shows I look to more than one source for information. Being a Navy Vet I try to find out what troops are saying… not the politicians. There is alot of good news to be found and some very sad news as well. We haven’t bit off more than we can chew and we are winning…. but most liberals want to see us fail.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:18 pm#95 – Exactly – so when are you going to start holding Nixon and Ford responsible for it!!!!
October 11th, 2006 at 9:19 pmAwesome Steve, you missed any point I was trying to make, and instead insinuated that I’m hateful and want America to “lose” something. Furthermore, you exposed your heretofore unstated desire for the US to “rule” the “world”…..whatever, guy -
October 11th, 2006 at 9:23 pmHello strawman. How are you today. hope you don’t come apart again, but I have a feeling you will.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:25 pmren
October 11th, 2006 at 9:28 pmwhat does minimum wage have to do with the strength of this economy?
notSteve
Are you working in a minimum wage job without benefits? Most likely not. My guess is you are 40 years old living with Mom and Dad smoking yourself into oblivion. You browse the internet while eating munchies.
Comments made by GOP party operative “Steve”:
Sample 1: Tom, where do you see hate? I’m stating facts and if that looks like hate, that must just be your biased look at the world.
Its a typical liberal response when you can’t match facts to get personal or name call.
Sample 2: Again with the name calling……. Maybe you should seek some anger management therapy…..We haven’t bit off more than we can chew and we are winning…. but most liberals want to see us fail.
Interesting. On the one hand “Steve” admonishes his debate opponents for name calling and hate, and on the other hand he impugns the motives of tens of millions of liberals with a blanket libel claiming they want to see us fail.
Shut up, Steve. No one wants to see us fail. People come here because they care about making the right choices for our country to succeed.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:38 pmren
October 11th, 2006 at 9:40 pmwhat does minimum wage have to do with the strength of this economy?Comment by Steve — October 11, 2006 @ 9:28 pm
IF I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT TO YOU THAN YOU ARE EVEN MORE RETARDED THAN I COULD HAVE IMAGINED…. THINK INFLATION STEVE, INFLATION….
Tom I don’t want the US to rule the world. I require my government to protect it’s citizens and the freedoms they enjoy.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:40 pmI would like all people of the world to live in freedom.
We went to Yugoslavia for humanitarian reasons. Why didn’t we go to NK for the same reasons or one of many more evil dictatorships.
Why can a Democratic president take action and its cheered and then a Republican takes action for not only humanitarian reasons (Yes we do want the Iraqis to enjoy freedom) but also for security reasons and he get nothing but slammed.
Lets say for example we went after NK first and saddam developed nukes what would you be saying now? Regardless it is Bush’s fault for everything that happens in the world. I remember High gas prices were his fault but low gas prices are just the market forces and no credit to Bush. (Market forces are the real answer for both cases but liberals just want to try to stick anything negative to Bush)
How can you be objective about anything when all you look to is the negative?
102 – when more, different people make more money, then that is better – is it really that hard to understand? would you really begrudge them that little boost?
Bet it wouldn’t cost $2 billion a week like our idiot war does.
Then again, it wouldn’t make Paris Hilton or Dick Cheney richer than they already are, so we probably don’t have to worry about it ever happening.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:42 pmSteve you juz described yourself in post 102!
Minimum wage needs to be raised because unlike what you believe, people are actually forced to work for little to nothing. Of course you belong to the party who doesn’t give a shit about those less fortunate then them.Oh well when we win this nov minimum will be increased and you can shove your bloated ego….
October 11th, 2006 at 9:42 pmThis is too much like watching FoxNews. Later, y’all.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:43 pmYeah I want Steve’s Job, or is Steve Job’s job better.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:44 pmI thought this was a “McCain is a whore” thread.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:45 pmComment by paul — October 11, 2006 @ 6:12 pm
TP provided that evidence all last week. The Republicans are the adult supervision OF THE PAGE PROGRAM!!! Care to bend over, Paul?
October 11th, 2006 at 9:46 pmI don’t wanna talk about working.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:47 pmI for one think it is best to fight our enemys OUTSIDE our borders. You are fooling yourself to think we would be safe if we just did nothing.
Comment by Steve — October 11, 2006 @ 9:18 pm
Let’s put aside the lame straw man argument. It speaks for itself. So I ask you, Steve, just who do you think are our enemies? Iraq? Did Iraq attack us? No. Did Iraq threaten us? No. Did Iraq supply materials, people, or assistance to Al Qaeda? No. So why the hell are we fighting there? Who the hell are we fighting there? There is an overwhelming consensus among security experts that we are breeding new legions of terrorists in Iraq. Did you read about the findings of the latest NIE?
Steve, simply lashing out doesn’t necessarily make us safer just because we are doing it outside our borders.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:48 pmBriseadh na Faire,
May I just say….SNAP!!!
October 11th, 2006 at 9:49 pmI thought this was a “McCain is a whore†thread.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:50 pmComment by Zooey — October 11, 2006 @ 9:45 pm
Well now, It’s STEEVE is a Whore thread….
LOL. Again a liberal trying to supress freedom of speech.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:50 pmWhat would be YOUR definition of Success?
My definition of Success Is that we would be the leader in all things (positive).
No other country in the world provides more aid and comfort both Government funded and privately funded. We are the most giving and compasionate.
I want to lead in Education, Science, Research, Manufacturing, Human Rights, Space Exploration, Freedom….. you get the point.
Ok ren, it’s the Steve is a whore thread.
Just for the record, I did not hijack this thread….
October 11th, 2006 at 9:52 pmThe GOP has nothing for voters in November and trolls posting here won’t change that. After the “Foley situation” and the now “North Korea nuclear” crisis, how do “conservatives” convince America that the Republicans deserve to stay in power despite the Chuck Norris-style-kick-in-the-face failure in Iraq, doubling the national debt and expanding the government at record rates, hanging out in the White House with Jack Abramoff and Jeff Gannon, fumbling the response to Hurricane Katrina, Tom DeLay and Duke Cunningham, isolating America, and also standing behind a child predator enabler as their House majority leader?
October 11th, 2006 at 9:52 pmHi Zooey.
McCain is as hopeless as Steve, or Paul, or any of the other Reich-wing supporters out there.
He’s sold his soul…for what price, I don’t know. I believe he’s being groomed to be Bush’s successor. At this point, anything McCain says is highly suspect as far as I am concerned.
I’m still wondering what happened to Bush’s Torture Bill. If he got it on the 29th, this would be the 10th day.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:52 pmI have no Idea what country you are from nor do I care. What I do know is that MY country is resposible for the freedom most of the world now enjoys. I’m not discounting the efforts by other countries during WWII but had it not been for our help those freedoms would not exist today.
Comment by Steve
Little puppy of the media. Lets get this straight.
I’m guessing that you are lucky not to be speaking German or Japanese.
Im learning to speak both. Your phobia about world domination has been good for your government to make you a sheep. Whenever Muslims are no longer a threat, you will be seeing enemies in chess players. Keep on shopping and waving the flag.
What I do know is that MY country is resposible for the freedom most of the world now enjoys.
Wrong. Grab a book and read that WWII was won by russians. Ask yourself why did US and Britain get to Berlin once russians took it. They did it so communism didnt get to Lisboa. Did US help russians in Stalingrad? I dont think so. But keep on. Have a hot dog and drop a tear when you hear your anthem, pathetic un-patriot.
What your country is REALLY responsible for is the invention of puppet governments, destruction of democratic elected governments that didnt follow US rules (read trade), terrorism, Central and South America death squads (Check Fort Benning in Georgia), and the nice term “collateral damage” to describe civilian slaughtering.
but had it not been for our help those freedoms would not exist today.
October 11th, 2006 at 9:55 pmReally. You got me laughing for a whole minute.
US is the country with the most powerful media system ever; yet its citizens are the poorly informed ever.
Steve has always been a GOP and Rove whore!!!!!!!!
He doesn’t realize it yet cuz he to busy blamin Clinton, Carter, Libs, and Progs at every moment, while at the same time suckin in the garbage of Robertson, Falwell, Limpdick and others
October 11th, 2006 at 9:57 pmOk, let’s get a little Orwellian here to see what rights Steve has lost without his realizing it. Project forward just a few years into the future. A huge backlash has swept the country and the NeoCons have been removed from power.
Conservative Christians and Evangelical Churches have been declared “terrorist organizations” for their support of Bush’s war crimes. Utilizing the Supreme Court approved warrantless wiretapping and internet sweeping capabilities, the Government has tracked down hundreds of thousands of American Citizens who supported the Republican Party, which has also been declared a “Terrorist Party.” While many have gone into hiding, others have been rounded up and interrogated, using waterboarding, microwave and phasar technology to obtain the truth from the “unlawful enemy combatants.” No one knows the exact count, but researchers published in Lancet estimate the number of Americans killed in the purges to exceed one million in the first year.
That is the monster the Republican Party has created. Pray it is slain before such a future becomes a reality.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:02 pmApologies….I should have prefaced previous post with….Who the Hell takes McCain seriously anyway?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:02 pmBriseadh na Faire,
McCain just wants the presidency so desperately, that he will say anything and do anything. Like you said he sold his soul.
McCain will find, when he realizes any chance to be president is gone, that he has compromised himself so horrendously, that he cannot live with himself.
Unka Karl’s got something up his sleeve about that Torture Bill, I just know it. I’m just not sure those types of antics will hold water right now.
The Bush camp is about to lose the fundies, due to the book put out by a guy who used to work in the faith-based office in the White House. I think his last name is Kuo. Keith olbermann did a segment on the book, and it will be devestating to BushCo.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:02 pmEconomic Expansion – ROFL Dow at all new highs unemployment at all time lows.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:03 pm“North Korea’s bombs are built with plutonium.”
Where’s the evidence of that?
“North Korea did not separate a gram of plutonium while Bill Clinton was in office.”
Where’s the evidence?
Liberals just make stuff up. Liars.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:04 pmJust for the record, I did not hijack this thread….
Comment by Zooey
Pfffft. Yeah, right. :)
October 11th, 2006 at 10:05 pmI smell a right wing fascist terrorist in our midst…..either that or another Nazi Sea Gull. Squack! Squack!
“Clinton hands Bush a Steve and says it don’t stink”
OK. So what to do now? Just bomb NK? I really don’t see any constructive suggestions as to what to do about the current issue.
You know that sanctions are not going to hurt Il, just the repressed poverty stricken people on NK.
China has to have the most influence and the most to gain from NK stability.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:07 pmWhat are their ideas?
foreclosures and bankruptcies at an all time high – cute cheerleader skirt there nate – i could set you up with a real cute congressman if you want
October 11th, 2006 at 10:07 pmOh, Steve. One more thing we have to thank the US: destruction of habeas corpus. Thats for you too, TP.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:07 pm“North Korea’s bombs are built with plutonium.”
Where’s the evidence?
“North Korea did not separate a gram of plutonium while Bill Clinton was in office.”
Where’s the evidence?
“He also stopped their missile tests.”
“The sun came up, therefore Clinton made it come up”
Liberals just make stuff up. It’s what they do.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:09 pmReal Scientist,
I don’t normally bring this up. But here goes. The end of the 1st gulf war with Iraq was conditional. It was a cessation of hostilities but IRAQ had to play by the rules. We all know how that went. No fly zone… our planes shot at (an act of war) which breeched the agreement, but yet we didn’t act. The attacks on the Shiites and Kurds and we didn’t act. Kicking out IAEA Inspectors… and we didn’t act. Numerous UN Security Council measures with no teeth. Finally we act as we had every legal right to. Who were we fighting? Saddam and his regime to start with. What were we afraid of? Same thing we now worry about with NK. That they may export weapons of mass destruction.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:10 pmBefore you go screaming they didn’t have any that is a load of crap. They had them and we were trying to moniter them and make sure they destroyed them. They played a shell game with us and blocked many inspections. Why do that when you have nothing to hide? They had even used them against thier own people.
Why did we go into Iraq… for the security of the American people and you should be thankful that we did.
Who are we fighting now?
Al Qaida, other terrorist organizations, Local Militia’s
What happens to the people of Iraq if we abandon them now?
Did none of you feel any joy in the liberation of these people or it that freedom just reserved for a select few?
-And yet Bush’s approval ratings on the economy still hover in the 30% to 40% range.
-The DOW has never been an indicator of how working folks are doing.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:11 pmYep at least two fascists in our midst.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pmOk ren, it’s the Steve is a whore thread.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pmJust for the record, I did not hijack this thread….
Comment by Zooey — October 11, 2006 @ 9:52 pm
As Chris Rock says, “You set em up and I’ll knock em down”
Liberals just make stuff up. It’s what they do.
Comment by ProveIT — October 11, 2006 @ 10:09 pm
Looks like we have a serious projectionist in our midst.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:13 pmMcCain is a solid idiot and would definately be wrong for the next President.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:13 pmwait- i owe Nat an apology – it was Steve in the cheerleader skirt all along. Sorry, Nat. Whatever, Steve.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:14 pm“Yep at least two fascists in our midst.”
Lots of them, the left is filled with them. This site is owned and run by them.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:16 pmI certainly make shit up all the time. McCain sold out though, he’s more concerned about running for President now.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:17 pmoh gawd – now c**t is back – i’m really outta here. and MA – you really are a world-class C**t. Go toodle yourself. Thinks she’s Star Jones or some such….
October 11th, 2006 at 10:20 pmFinally we act as we had every legal right to. Comment by Steve
You are a lawyer. I get it.
Did none of you feel any joy in the liberation of these people or it that freedom just reserved for a select few?
Comment by Steve
Liberation? Is thats what the war is for? Why dont you liberate Saudis, then?
Saddam and his regime to start with. What were we afraid of? Same thing we now worry about with NK.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:20 pmTo begin with, your actual SofD shook hands with him, and he didnt say a thing when he gassed Kurds and Iranians back in the good-ol Reagans days with US weapons. And, you must be the only one that is afraid of NK. This country wont attack US. But anything your concept of freedom suits you, murderer.
#141 yawn.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:22 pm“The Liberal State is a mask behind which there is no face; it is a scaffolding behind which there is no building. ”
-Benito Mussolini
“Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.” –Benito Mussolini
Spoken like a true Fascist.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:24 pmWho the hell said I was a Christian? LOL
October 11th, 2006 at 10:25 pmI think the Far Right is as whacked as most of you here are.
I have not always been a Republican. I have never voted a straight ticket and yet I have never missed a vote not even while serving 8 years in the US Navy. I vote for the best people regardless of party and I have even voted independent for president.
Juan I’m guessing your a frustrated communist who notices fewer countries who have your perfered form of government.
If you don’t think that Radical Muslims are a problem you need just look around the world at the many conficts. Most all of them involve Muslims. They don’t care what your belief system is… just if it differs from thiers or not.
#141 yawn.
Comment by Juan+C
I agree.
I didn’t hijack the thread, I tried to get it back on McCain’s whoreness. See? I was doing a good thing…
October 11th, 2006 at 10:25 pmSee? I was doing a good thing…
October 11th, 2006 at 10:29 pmComment by Zooey
As you always do. (Ok, lets hijack this one…) :)
Yes, Proveit – I’m the one who made up that story about WMD’s – you’re welcome – dummy.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:29 pmJuan I never said NK would attack the US but they could export the weapons that could. Plain and simple.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:30 pmOn thread – How do progs know what NK was up to – especially since our well intentioned and charmingingly gullible former President didn’t have a clue what NK was up to. (I guess that’s what happens when a President and his diplomatic corps agree to no inspections for FIVE years.) President Clinton always had the best intentions, but I think advice from some of his left-wingers was long on romanticism and short on reality.
So let me get this straight – McCain criticizes Bush on Geneva Conventions = McCain is great. McCain criticizes the former President on the administrations NK policy = he is crazy. I’m starting to see a pattern here….
A tidbit of advice for progs – NK is a losing argument – ot will NOT vault the Dems to power. Don’t belittle the deficit reduction like that panty-waist Harry Reid. (He tends to look whiny!) Bleating over the increased tax revenues DOES not make Repubs look bad. I think the only “winning” issue your team has come up with is the gay-blade, Mark Foley. P.S. You’ve got to give Harold Ford from Tennessee a ton of credit – he sounds JUST like a Republican…..We’ll swap you Chaffee for Ford, OK??
October 11th, 2006 at 10:30 pmI am actually getting some excellent entertainment value here. Lets face it, the thread is about how McCain sold out. We are well beyond that now.
I would stand by any one of these people on this thread if it ever came down to some serous shit happening.
Does anyone have any ideas on what to do about North Korea?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:31 pmWhat do you think the bombs were built with?
There nuclear facilities were closed, the fuel rods needed to produce plutonium based bombs were stored away and no bomb testing was conducted by North Korea during Clinton’s presidency.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:31 pmTom you crack me up with your FoxNews comment…. go run and hide where you might be exposed to more than one point of view …LOL
October 11th, 2006 at 10:31 pmI’m guessing your a frustrated communist who notices fewer countries who have your perfered form of government. Comment by Steve
October 11th, 2006 at 10:31 pmIn fact, I dont like governments. So, again, you blew it.
Juan I never said NK would attack the US but they could export the weapons that could.
So, your fear is that NK can trade these weapons but not NK using them against you? Imagine you are a North Korean or an Iranian. You will think the same about US. Ask Israel.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:33 pmI pressed enter by mistake when trying to respond to him.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:34 pmWhat do you think the bombs were built with?Comment by Nat
Well, powder, of course. Blame China not Oppenheimer.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:35 pmJuan, better watch it saying stuff like that here.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:36 pmThese Liberals love goverment and think it should always provide for them. The government can never be too big for these people.
They want the government to both legalize drugs and them give them to them.
Does anyone have any ideas on what to do about North Korea?
Comment by ForTruth
I would send someone over there to talk. Preferably a woman, who can stand to be in Kim’s presence without retching. Maybe a whole series of actresses from those terrible movies Kim likes.
It’s better than doing nothing, which is what BushCo is doing — other than saber rattling.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:36 pmProve it.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:36 pmactually fascist steve you are partly right.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:37 pmI make 3 figures – am in my 40’s but do not live with mom.
But I have family that is struggling in this so called
great economy and I have something that you will never
have. empathy.
empathy.
Comment by notSteve
You’ll find a lot of that around here. Not troll empathy, of course, just good old humanity empathy.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:40 pmThe government can never be too big for these people. Comment by Steve
You are somehow describing fascism. From what I read, the person leaning more to fascism is you, Exley and MA. Liberal is a contradictory term to describe a person wanting a government involved in all of her activities.
They want the government to both legalize drugs and them give them to them.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:42 pmmmm…Steve. Drugs are legal.
But just those that governments get profit from.
If I’m a North Korean or an Iranian the least of my worries is the US. Since I have no real freedoms in either country and my goverments are in the process of starving the public to rattle sabres and strengthen the military. The same goes for the poor peoples of Venezuela.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:44 pm-There was nothing great about McCain objecting to torture. Everyone excluding Neo-cons objects to torture.
-McCain is not crazy; he is a far right republican and a hack.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:46 pmSteve,
Since Juan actually lives in a different country, I think I’d give more weight to what he says about their concerns.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:47 pmWhat you wimps call torture I call College Frat Initiation.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:49 pmZooey have you ever been to other countries?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:50 pmYes, Steve, I have. Why do you ask?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:51 pmSince I have no real freedoms in either country and my goverments are in the process of starving the public to rattle sabres and strengthen the military.
In Iran, you will remember, people were closed to have a really progressive kind of government…that was before the CIA put a guy of his own back in the 50´s. Welcome to the world, Steve. NK, I completely agree with you. If it wasnt for US war in Korea it is very likely that there would be just ONE Korea. Same for Vietnam. Venezuela is trading cheap oil with the mayor of London and receiving technical assistance, education and support from the english. Want to drop a bomb in London? Yeah, there are a lot of poor people in Venezuela, but Chavez is trying something (although he is a clown, but a funny one), at least.
I dont see you protesting for the lack of freedom in EUA, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Chile (when Pinochet), Nicaragua (with Somoza), etc…etc…etc. You are either an ignorant or hypocrite.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:51 pmSince Juan actually lives in a different country, I think I’d give more weight to what he says about their concerns.
Comment by Zooey
Oh…Im going to find out where you live, gonna take a plane, gonna grab a bus, gonna knock on your door, and Im gonna give you a big hug!!!
October 11th, 2006 at 10:54 pmWhat you wimps call torture I call College Frat Initiation.
Comment by Steve
Hope you get into a fraternity, then.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:55 pmOh…Im going to find out where you live, gonna take a plane, gonna grab a bus, gonna knock on your door, and Im gonna give you a big hug!!!
Comment by Juan+C
What’s taking you so long!?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:55 pmYou righties are so incredibly stupid and cowardly. Even with a few nukes, how exactly is that scary? Pussies.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:55 pmAre you a sadomasochist?
October 11th, 2006 at 10:56 pmZooey, didn’t Clinton try the negotiation route already – with limited success?? You’re not blaming the failure of Kim Jong Il to live up to his agreement because Madame Secretary Albright is rather matronly, are you? I applaud her ability to act as though she enjoyed his company as well as his clever sense of humour….
Well, as politically incorrect as this suggestion is, I would tell NK they had 48 hours to let inspectors in. I would send nuclear scientist not politically aligned to dismantle or destroy the stockpile of bomb making material. I would politely warn the little man that should he not comply with these demands, Pyongyang would be levelled ala Hiroshima. My warning would be clear, concise and without ambiguity – he is limited in delivery systems, but not in the list of people who wish to purchase this material from him.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:56 pmAre you a sadomasochist?
Comment by Nat
Paid troll.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:57 pmNat,
Simply repeating the assertions is not evidence.
Put up or shut up.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:57 pmSteve, in comment #132 you didn’t provide a single legitimate reason for starting a full blown ground war in Iraq. Not even close. You did manage to parrot the standard Neocon line, however. And you managed to THOROUGHLY DISCREDIT yourself by claiming that Iraq had WMDs, which has been disproven to the satisfaction of everyone except a few wackos. Even Bush concedes they didn’t have WMDs, that is why he had to switch over to the lie that we are there to liberate the Iraqi people.
Pathetic.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:58 pmSteve, you have the greatest nuclear arsenal in the world…along with Russia.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:59 pmHows that been so far making you feel safe?
My warning would be clear, concise and without ambiguity – he is limited in delivery systems, but not in the list of people who wish to purchase this material from him.
Comment by mighty+aphrodite
Heh. You guys from the right are sooooo scared.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:00 pmMighty Hag,
No, I’m not blaming anything on Clinton or Albright. But if you’ll take a moment from your terribly busy janitorial schedule, you’ll see that no nuclear weapons were made during the Clinton years, so something was working quite well.
Thanks for asking, and maybe you could send your ideas to BushCo, because dammit, somebody ought to care.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:02 pmWhat’s taking you so long!?
Comment by Zooey
The damn visa! :)
October 11th, 2006 at 11:02 pmSince you fancy yourself an expert, what were the bombs built with?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:03 pmThe damn visa! :)
Comment by Juan+C
You should find a nice girl and get married! I know a lovely shiksa in Cape Cod!
October 11th, 2006 at 11:05 pmMA, Clinton did not allow any gain in fissionable materiel while Bush…um…has. I know it is tough for you righties to wrap your puny minds around reality but, please, try.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:06 pmBut if you’ll take a moment from your terribly busy janitorial schedule,
Comment by Zooey
Oh, Zoo…I spilled my coffee. :D
October 11th, 2006 at 11:07 pmYou should find a nice girl and get married! I know a lovely shiksa in Cape Cod!
Comment by Yenta
ha ha! Yeah, imagine that. To marry some girl in order to go and find another and give her a hug. I would look so fine.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:10 pmOh, Zoo…I spilled my coffee. :D
Comment by Juan+C
I thought you might appreciate that, Juan. :)
October 11th, 2006 at 11:10 pmYeah, imagine that. To marry some girl in order to go and find another and give her a hug. I would look so fine.
Comment by Juan+C
That Yenta is an amoral bitch, isn’t she?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:11 pmWhat you wimps call torture I call College Frat Initiation.
Comment by Steve — October 11, 2006 @ 10:49 pm
This tells us everything we need to know about Steve and his warped values.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:13 pmsome comments by the retarded running USA:
“This is not a prediction that things are going poorly or better. It’s just that I have to have enough ammo in the magazine that I can continue to shoot as long as they (commanders in Iraq) want us to shoot,” Schoomaker said of the war.
Translation: I don’t care if it’s right or wrong, I’m going to keep shooting regardless!
“Anybody that thinks that victory is the absence of violence doesn’t understand the nature of what it is.”
Oh I think I know better than you fool-retard what the nature of it, and it IS the absence of violence you ******* retard!
He continued: “You know, I wish there wasn’t three (U.S.) school shootings in the last two weeks, OK? Or how many murders took place down here (in Washington) or, you know, how many cattle were rustled in Wyoming, you know, last night. I wish all that stuff would go away but it isn’t, it’s life.”
Cattle Rustling = Invading a country, destablizing a country, responsibility of 50,000+ deaths.
hmmmm…..you lost your marbles BOY!
October 11th, 2006 at 11:15 pm#193 Not even the most retarded of righties is making the argument that you just did. Nice lawyer trick (if anybody believed you were one) but reality intervenes.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:16 pmMighty Hag,
I do believe you are decompensating, sweetie darling. Did I come a little close to your true career?
You always “Toodle,” but you never leave.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:17 pmI wouldn’t believe that lying, counterfeiting, torturing pimp if my life depended on it
Comment by mighty+aphrodite
But, instead of that, you still believe Iraq had (or have??? ha!) WMDs and had to do with 9/11 because the lying scumbags in the US government said so. So, after all this time, even poor brain-dead Bush said Iraq had nothing to do 9/11 and WMDs are nowhere around in Iraq. But, yeah, we are the liars, we kill civilians, we cheat the people, we defend pedophiles, we dont know what diplomacy is, we ignore memos, we allow a 9/11, we are building a terrific US embassy in Baghdad, we cant find Osama…etc. Yeah, we are the wackos.
I dont really answer any crap you spit but since you are messing with Zoo, so I will.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:23 pm141.MA: I don’t know how you got Shamanism out of all that, but, do you have something against Shamanism?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:24 pmI think that’s exactly the way those wingnut numbskulls* think.
*My apologies to regular numbskulls, of course.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:25 pmMA is a good little thread hijacker, isn’t she???
One would think she’s an attention whore or something along those lines.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:26 pmThat Yenta is an amoral bitch, isn’t she?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:27 pmComment by Zooey
Im gonna hug her too!! :)
“So let me get this straight – McCain criticizes Bush on Geneva Conventions = McCain is great. McCain criticizes the former President on the administrations NK policy = he is crazy. I’m starting to see a pattern here….”
No, your just seeing how rational people act on different issues, and we see how you don’t understand it and relate it in a Psychopath’s Psychological Projection way to implicate your bigotry onto others.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:28 pmI dont really answer any crap you spit but since you are messing with Zoo, so I will.
Comment by Juan+C
You are a fine gentleman, Juan, as are JPark and numfar.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:28 pmMA is a good little thread hijacker, isn’t she???
Comment by numfar
Told ya I didn’t hijack this thread. :)
October 11th, 2006 at 11:29 pmI got your back, Zooey :)
October 11th, 2006 at 11:31 pmTold ya I didn’t hijack this thread. :)
Comment by Zooey
She’s thread al-Queda! Derka derka!
October 11th, 2006 at 11:31 pmI don’t know how you got Shamanism out of all that, but, do you have something against Shamanism?
Comment by USA
Mighty Hag has a deep and abiding fear of Shamans like Briseadh na Faire. I think he’s come a little close to home, on occasion.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:31 pmIs this the new GOP strategy: the anything’s possible argument?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:32 pmmaybe steve was in the same frat as foley.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:38 pmmaybe steve was in the same frat as foley.
Comment by johnboltensmoustache
Just imagine the hazing.
I like your name, by the way.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:43 pmMe thinks someone whispered into McCain’s ear…..do you want Diebold on your side or risk a fair election?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:45 pmThe mentality of someone like Steve makes me remember once a while back while looking through a National Lampoon magazine some pictures of what goes on during a typical fraternity initiation. Things like having to stick the thumb of your right hand inside the ass of the guy in front of you while sucking the thumb of your left hand all the way around until you have a completed circle of easily manipulated idiots who actually believe that this is part of what it takes to advance one’s education and life. If your thumb fell out while walking in a circle you had to switch thumbs. Ass thumb in mouth, mouth thumb now in ass. They also shared some other tidbits like having to eat “spunk biscuits”. Well, this involved masturbating, in a circle, and then ejaculating onto a biscuit. The last one to ejaculate has to eat one of the “spunk biscuits”.
I’m so glad I never considered, even remotely, joining a fraternity. There are a great many other boy on boy ‘fraternity fun’ stories out there. Too many to list. So, Steve, RealScientist was right, you do seem to have some warped values. My idea of fun in college was getting laid with a woman.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:46 pmI like your name, by the way.
Comment by Yeti_Steve
johnboltonsmustache should be an inventor of county fair rides.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:49 pm#214: Oh Christ! I cringed when I read that. Bravo!
October 11th, 2006 at 11:51 pm#213 peterh: Naw!!! Say it ain’t so! I’d be willing to bet on every Diebold machine that for every 1000 democratic votes at least 50 are either deleted or switched to the republican candidate.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:52 pmohnboltonsmustache should be an inventor of county fair rides.
Comment by Zooey
Why? Because they’re boring?
October 11th, 2006 at 11:52 pmMr. Evil, you are evil! Right on.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:52 pmI have my days!
October 11th, 2006 at 11:55 pmWhy? Because they’re boring?
Comment by Yeti_Steve
Oh clueless one…
October 12th, 2006 at 12:04 amDid you guys miss me? I had to drive home :)
October 12th, 2006 at 12:13 amI see I was still in your thoughts LOL.
Oh clueless one…
Comment by Zooey
What, do you think that getting one from Bolton would be anything BUT boring?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:15 amI’m going to do something I thought I’d never do and that is to call John McCain: a lying, low down, parisan, butt kissing, wanta be conservative ahole. I’m a Democrat who might have been stupid enough to vote for this jerk. But guess what butt kisser, now I not wouldn’t vote for you, but I have lost every bit of respect I’ve ever had for you. I know you want to be President, but you’ve started acting like that jerk you are trying to replace.
The sad part about it is that McCain isn’t even going to be the nominee for the Repugnant Party in 2008. All of the kissing up isn’t going to amount to a hill of beans in the end.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:16 amWhat, do you think that getting one from Bolton would be anything BUT boring?
Comment by Yeti_Steve
Well, he wouldn’t be flapping his yap at the UN, making us look worse than ever. Right?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:17 amMy idea of fun in college was getting laid with a woman.
Comment by Mr. Evil
When you study engineering, believe me, thats the last thing you want to have as fun.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:17 amDid you guys miss me? I had to drive home :)
I see I was still in your thoughts LOL.
Comment by Steve
How was that biscuit?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:18 amThe sad part about it is that McCain isn’t even going to be the nominee for the Repugnant Party in 2008. All of the kissing up isn’t going to amount to a hill of beans in the end.
Comment by The Unknown Democrat
My thoughts, exactly Unknown Dem. How many times does McCain have to get his head shoved while he’s giving BushCo a BJ, before he figures it all out?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:21 amHow was that biscuit?
Comment by Juan+C
Oh my god….that is sooooo sick, and sooooo funny!
October 12th, 2006 at 12:22 amHmm I never had to do any of those things.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:23 amI thought Liberals liked Gay people.
MccCain doesn’t stand a chance. But its funny cause you liberals love him most of the time… Same goes for ABC huh?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:24 amOh my god….that is sooooo sick, and sooooo funny!
Comment by Zooey
Good! I was hoping someone could follow the trend. :)
October 12th, 2006 at 12:25 amIs Mighty Aphrodite now Steve??? Inquiring minds want to know.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:26 amHey Steve, don’t forget to wash your hands before you eat.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:27 amNumfar
October 12th, 2006 at 12:28 amI have to say it’s not true. It’s shocking there could be more than one sane person in the world huh? I’m sure there is something Mighty and Myself would disagree on.
Good! I was hoping someone could follow the trend. :)
Comment by Juan+C
You know I can always track the disgusting things. :)
October 12th, 2006 at 12:28 amHow many times does McCain have to get his head shoved while he’s giving BushCo a BJ, before he figures it all out?
Comment by Zooey
Maybe he is just “curious”.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:29 amMccCain doesn’t stand a chance. But its funny cause you liberals love him most of the time… Same goes for ABC huh?
Comment by Steve
…since when?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:29 amThe United States used to be the leader of the World.
This is undeniable.
That this is no longer true, is also undeniable.
This great fall we find ourselves in did not start with this President. It has been a slope apon which our past leaders have constantly tread. At times with good leadership we could proudly rise up against it and in darker times would sweep down into it deeply. The United States has many dark points in it’s very short history. There are few that can compare at all to this time we are in now.
This President saw that precipice of dark and light and decided to flood down into it with all the speed and force of of his Great Office and all the Political and Corporate mass and money which could be applied. Like an Elephant on a toboggan loaded with luggage filled with explosives on a ride to hell. For him, its all about the ride. The landing is not part of the equation, nor is the great damage caused in the calamity awaiting at the very bottom. It is because this man is a beliver only in his own self,and no-one else, nothing else. Not God, not Science, not experts, not Counsellors. Only the life and tiny mind of this heartless man matters to himself.
All that has been done wrongly by the United States, badly, horribly, and at the cost of countless lives through history, is the burden of all Americans to bear. How we treat our Sick, our Poor,our Elderly and our Prisoners DESCRIBES who and what Americans are, to every corner of the world. That never goes away. That is history. It will never go away. All that has been done well and with honor, talent, skill, competence, humanity is also history. This is ours as well.
The only thing human beings have for themselves is what they will do this day and hopefully tomorrow. Countries live their lifetimes as well and as for the United States, we are still speeding downward and cannot see the bottom.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:29 amHey Steve, don’t forget to wash your hands before you eat.
Comment by Mr. Evil
Too late, Mr Evil, he already had a biscuit.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:30 amWas that the left thumb or…….. LOL
October 12th, 2006 at 12:30 amOh yeah, I forgot.
Steve’s a dick.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:33 amYou know I can always track the disgusting things. :)
October 12th, 2006 at 12:33 amComment by Zooey
I know!! You are the best! :)
Dunkin Donuts has another meaning now.
213 peterh: Naw!!! Say it ain’t so! I’d be willing to bet on every Diebold machine that for every 1000 democratic votes at least 50 are either deleted or switched to the republican candidate.
Comment by Mr. Evil —
Only 50???? Yer mighty conservative in your projections….IMHO….of course….When we’re speaking of Diebold….hey…don’t limit yourself….
October 12th, 2006 at 12:35 ammparker Are you saying that we as individuals are responsible for the decay of our country? That it is our values and not those of the government that has led to what you call this decline?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:35 amNice to meet you too. LOL
October 12th, 2006 at 12:36 amDunkin Donuts has another meaning now.
Comment by Juan+C
Laughing…..too…..hard….!
October 12th, 2006 at 12:36 am‘Steve’ is Exley.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:38 amZoo. I go off now. Take care. Nice talking to you again.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:39 amAll people here, good night and thank you for your comments.
Dunkin Donuts has another meaning now.
Comment by Juan+C
I literally lol’d to that one. Well played, sir.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:41 amGoodnight, Juan. You’re the greatest. Still laughing….
October 12th, 2006 at 12:41 amI just thought maybe he wanted to make sure his thumbs were clean.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:41 amThat it is our values and not those of the government that has led to what you call this decline?
Comment by Steve
Cant pass this one. Ask yourself which country has the most powerful middle class bourgeoisy (?) in the world. A lazy, spending, non-thinking, obese, egoistic middle class.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:43 amCyra! How are you? Since this thread is already hijacked — not by me, I might add — any news?
Do you think Steve stopped by Dunkin’ Donuts on the way home…?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:43 amI just thought maybe he wanted to make sure his thumbs were clean.
Comment by Mr. Evil
Oh hell, why start now?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:44 amCyraBrown is that a person?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:44 amI don’t know why people think I’m someone I’m not. This is the only name I have ever posted under On this site Period.
I’m sure those others on here who express views which are counter to your own may be smart, but I’m sure they are near as Handsome as myself.
I literally lol’d to that one. Well played, sir.
Comment by Yeti_Steve
Lucky shot.
You’re the greatest.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:45 amComment by Zooey
*Blushing* stop it! :)
See you soon.
Mr. Evil, I’m glad you are looking out for my welfare :)
October 12th, 2006 at 12:46 amNah, Cyra, Steve is not Exley. Exley’s a turd who likes to congratulate himself at every turn. Steve here, is merely Handsome.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:48 amWell this Yeti is going back to doing Yeti things.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:49 amOk so its almost 1 am here and I’ve worked a 12 hour day and my typing is starting to suffer. I have been having so much fun but I have to get up early once again tomorrow.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:49 amLike or dislike me at your own discretion. Nite all.
Well this Yeti is going back to doing Yeti things.
Comment by Yeti_Steve
Crapping in a snowbank…?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:52 amOne last thing…and just an opinion. At least Steve is taking all this hilarious bashing with humor.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:52 amOne last thing…and just an opinion. At least Steve is taking all this hilarious bashing with humor.
Comment by Juan+C
Definitely not Exley…
October 12th, 2006 at 12:53 am#256, Steve, my boy, you have been paid a terrific compliment! You should be QUITE proud that some people have assumed you are me….I am something of a legend on this site. The folks here respect me, look forward to my postings…Some even, like I suspect Zooey, have developed little “crushes” on me….
I haven’t read all your postings here tonight. But if people suspected you were me, I am sure they were well-thought out, well-researched and cited, and ultimately, persuasive.
Well done, Steve.
By the way, I too am extraordinarily handsome!
October 12th, 2006 at 1:04 amBig Bark Mcain
October 12th, 2006 at 1:08 amThis is a dead thread – has been from post 17 on.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:26 amBraid Fair likes to read the tea leaves and dedeuce dire consequences in my life….Thankfully, she has been as accurate as one of the fly-by-night psychics…..Whew…..
October 12th, 2006 at 1:51 amExley is nothin’ but a liar Steve, who gets punked on a regular basis – not really something to aspire to.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:52 amBarfly is one of my biggest fans, Steve. He hides his admiration under a thin veneer of hostility. But he is a liberal who is now questioning his ideology and thinking of becoming a conservative because I have taught him a lot about history and foreign affairs that he previously had not known. Barfly is one of my prize students!
October 12th, 2006 at 1:59 amThe Thiprogress Claim:
Bill Clinton froze the program in its tracks. North Korea did not separate a gram of plutonium while Bill Clinton was in office. He also stopped their missile tests.
This claim is entirely unsupported. The only source you cite is a summary of the the US-NK “agreed framework” for non-production of weapons and materials. ie What NK said they would do rather than what they actually did.
But you can’t even pass off something that tamed-down without your source contradicting your claims:
Quote: The canning process, conducted with U.S. financing, began April 27, 1996 and was finished in April 2000. The spent fuel, however, remains in North Korea, and Pyongyang may have reprocessed it into weapons-grade plutonium. The amount of fuel is sufficient for several nuclear weapons, according to the CIA.
The more comprehensive fact sheet from the same site, which your source refers readers to read, is worse:
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron.asp
A gram of plutonium is a very small amount. Are you unwilling to state the source claiming that not even this amount was produced during Clinton presidency, the period in which literally all of the stockpiles of material were first discovered and ended 2 years before it has claimed they had produced 10 years worth of plutonium from reactors ?
Or do you want to stick with the non-source you’ve cited 3 times already with a high level of confidence not one of your lock-step readers will question it ? Seems to be working so far.
What you should really avoid doing is ever referencing your previous articles referring to Iran and estimates that their nuclear program is years away from producing weapons. After all, those estimates are based on how long it is known to take to do shit like enrich uranium and how much spent nuclear fuel like plutonium is required to come up with quantities required for nuclear weapons.
ie The kind of estimates that would put most of this NK nuclear devolpment occurring during the period which coincided with Clinton’s Presidency.
But you can ignore those types of estimates because…. you know… North Korea already agreed not to do this. Who you gonna trust…. math or the assurances of the country who, once this non-proliferation treaty expired, immediately stated they had a clandestine enrichment program and had developed weapons.
October 12th, 2006 at 2:11 amThe answer: Whatever makes Clinton look good and Bush bad.
>> “North Korea did not separate a gram of
>> plutonium while Bill Clinton was in office.â€
>> Where’s the evidence?
>> Comment by ProveIT — October 11, 2006 @ 10:09 pm
> There nuclear facilities were closed, the fuel rods
> needed to produce plutonium based bombs were
> stored away and no bomb testing was conducted
> by North Korea during Clinton’s presidency.
> Comment by Nat — October 11, 2006 @ 10:31 pm
Even ThinkProgress’s own source for this claim contradicts this. It specifically states that following the 1994 agreement the IAEA concluded in 1996 that spent fuel was being diverted and the fuel between 1996 and 2000 could not be accounted for.
This to you says that ThinkProgress is correct in claiming “not one gram of this fuel was reprocessed” ?
October 12th, 2006 at 2:19 amthere have been many contenders but this qualifies as the stupidest, most illogical post you have ever written:Well, as politically incorrect as this suggestion is, I would tell NK they had 48 hours to let inspectors in. I would send nuclear scientist not politically aligned to dismantle or destroy the stockpile of bomb making material. I would politely warn the little man that should he not comply with these demands, Pyongyang would be levelled ala Hiroshima. My warning would be clear, concise and without ambiguity – he is limited in delivery systems, but not in the list of people who wish to purchase this material from him. Comment by mighty+aphrodite
One word is all it takes to make you look like a fool.
China.
October 12th, 2006 at 2:45 ambtrithful; Tank must be fashioning a truly devastating riposte – or else he’s slunk off again to lick his tattered taint. After that last exchange, he left a trail behind him . . .
October 12th, 2006 at 3:01 amSorry b, hit the wrong key.
October 12th, 2006 at 3:06 amMcCain is a sleazy politician and a complete whore for the Bush Regime! He must be forced to resign from the Senate and never allowed to hold elected office of any kind ever again!
October 12th, 2006 at 3:28 amThe IRONY is mighty aphrodite’s proposal by nature is TERRORISM.
Which is why after 9/11 they claimed “irony is dead”- that way, they don’t have to acknowledge their illogical self-contradictions.
October 12th, 2006 at 3:33 amHe must be forced to resign from the Senate and never allowed to hold elected office of any kind ever again!
Comment by Jay Randal
The now-estranged evangelical vote will see to it. They are finally waking up to the fact that they were just the republicans’ means to an end.
October 12th, 2006 at 3:37 ambtrithful; Tank must be fashioning a truly devastating riposte – or else he’s slunk off again to lick his tattered taint. After that last exchange, he left a trail behind him . . .
Comment by barfly — October 12, 2006 @ 3:01 am
I’ll assume that one will suffice as “truely devastating”. Feel free to rent some testicles yourself and chip in if you think you’re up to it. No ?
October 12th, 2006 at 4:38 amPLANS previously drafted by the Pentagon predict 52,000 US military casualties and one million civilian dead in the first 90 days of conflict if America attacked Pyongyang.
The US leadership is looking at international economic and diplomatic sanctions against North Korea as its primary response to Monday’s nuclear test.
But military contingencies are considered as a matter of course and analysts paint a horrific picture for even the most targeted of US strikes.
A report this week by US-based security and military analyst Stratfor predicts North Korea could return fire on Seoul with “several hundred thousand high-explosive rounds per hour” — with up to 25 per cent of shells filled with nerve gas.
Other estimates say the US would need at least 500,000 ground troops to secure against a North invasion of the South.
Signing Statement
October 12th, 2006 at 4:58 amAmerica is a bloody joke hahaha
Can’t imagine a presidency worse than this.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:59 am.
There exists within the government a parallel military / intelligence service – an entire parallel secret structure which is extra-Constitutional – designed specifically to change the structure of government from a Representative Republic to a Fascist Dictatorship.
The model for this structure was known as “Gladio” in the late 1940s – having fallen under the control of the CIA in 1966.
The premise is to use a few inside operative to stage massive terror events for the purpose of instilling enough fear in the populace that they willingly trade freedom for security.
THOSE WHO FAIL TO STUDY THE LESSONS OF HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT THEM.
Michael Ledeen has studied the lessons of history – and has applied them to his own agenda.
High Treason
From Wikipedia
“High treason, broadly defined, is an action which is grossly disloyal to one’s country or sovereign.
Participating in a war against one’s country, attempting to overthrow its government, and attempting to kill its head of state are perhaps the best known examples of high treason.”
Two out of three ought to do it.
The Bush Administration attacked America on 9/11 for the express purpose of overthrowing the then-existing form of government. While the Administration dubbed their atttack on US soil “The War ON Terror,” it is more aptly named “The War OF Terror,” a “war” of their own creation.
H I G H
T R E A S O N
Timewatch: Operation Gladio – Behind False Flag Terrorism & 9/11
Watch the “Gladio†video here:
(part1)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4900756773650110959
WATCH ALL THREE PARTS
ALL TERROR IS STATE SPONSORED – ALL OF IT.
They are all laughing at you.
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October 12th, 2006 at 7:51 amAny respect I had for John McCain just went right out the window. For six years, the Bush Administration has chosen to ignore North Korea, except for when trying to gin up the base by naming North Korea part of his “axis of evil”.
There really is an axis of evil. That axis is named Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfield and George Bush. McCain and the Republican controlled Congress are the group’s enablers. This world is a far more dangerous place than it was six years ago because of the policies of this group and the Congress that allowed it to happen.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:12 amplunger. I’ll indulge you for a minute. Let’s say the Bush administration orchestrated 9/11. Jets into the towers and pentagon. Obviously, it would be difficult to coordinate, quiet everyone that had to be involved, not to mention the observers. I guess, it is possible, but would be very difficult. Now, you’re telling me, the administration that is dishonest and savvy enough to pull that off, can’t plant WMD’s in the Iraqi desert to legitimize the invasion?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:19 amTHOSE WHO FAIL TO STUDY THE LESSONS OF HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT THEM.
Michael Ledeen has studied the lessons of history – and has applied them to his own agenda.
T H E
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Ledeen’s ideas are repeated daily by such figures as Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. His views virtually define the stark departure from American foreign policy philosophy that existed before the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001. He basically believes that violence in the service of the spread of democracy is America’s manifest destiny. Consequently, he has become the philosophical legitimator of the American occupation of Iraq.
Now Michael Ledeen is calling for regime change beyond Iraq. In an address entitled “Time to Focus on Iran — The Mother of Modern Terrorism,” for the policy forum of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) on April 30, he declared, “the time for diplomacy is at an end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon.”
With a group of other conservatives, Ledeen recently set up the Center for Democracy in Iran (CDI), an action group focusing on producing regime change in Iran.
Quotes from Ledeen’s works reveal a peculiar set of beliefs about American attitudes toward violence. “Change — above all violent change — is the essence of human history,” he proclaims in his book, “Machiavelli on Modern Leadership: Why Machiavelli’s Iron Rules Are as Timely and Important Today as Five Centuries Ago.” In an influential essay in the National Review Online he asserts, “Creative destruction is our middle name. We do it automatically … it is time once again to export the democratic revolution.”
Iraq, Iran and Syria are the first and foremost nations where this should happen, according to Ledeen. The process by which this should be achieved is a violent one, termed “total war,” a concept pioneered by the 19th century Prussian general, Karl von Clausewitz in his classic book “On War.”
Ledeen’s take on this idea is wedded to ideology. In summarizing his book “The War Against the Terror Masters” on the American Enterprise Institute Web site, he writes: “We wage total war because we fight in the name of an idea, and ideas either triumph or fail … totally.” In his reckoning, force is the only reliable strategy to enforce our ideology on our enemies. In the same summary he claims, drawing inspiration from Machiavelli: “We can lead by the force of high moral example … [but] fear is much more reliable, and lasts longer. Once we show that we are capable of dealing out terrible punishment to our enemies, our power will be far greater.”
http://www.alternet.org/story/15860/
A fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, Ledeen holds a Ph.D. in History and Philosophy from the University of Wisconsin. In 1983, on the recommendation of Richard Perle, Ledeen was hired at the Department of Defense as a consultant on terrorism. While being investigated as a security risk by his supervisor, Noel Koch, it was learned from the CIA station that Ledeen had been carried in Agency files as an agent of influence of a foreign government: Israel.
After having his access to classified materials blocked he ceased working there. He next appeared at the National Security Council as a consultant working with NSC head Robert McFarlane. Ledeen was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair — an adventure that he documented in the book “Perilous Statecraft: An Insider’s Account of the Iran-Contra Affair.” A prominent member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) board of governors and the Center for Security Policy (CSP), he advocates “total war” inline with the “Grand Strategy for the Middle East” which advocates “Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot and Egypt as the prize.” Ledeen is presently a serving member on the China Commission and, with the support of DOD Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith, he has since 2001 been employed as a consultant for the Office of Special Plans OSP). He is involved in the handling of classified materials and has high-level security clearances. He was also involved in election rigging of the 2000 election.
http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html
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Conflicts and power
From an outstanding interview with Professor Ilan Pappe of Haifa University (my emphasis):
“I think that neo-conservatism is mainly a product of the Cold War, and I think as happened in Israel, so in the US, a lot of people benefit economically, sociologically, politically, from a situation of conflict which begins with the producers of arms, and it ends with the people who have a hold on the decision-making apparatus in the name of national security. And of course this was all lost in a way when the Soviet Union collapsed, and the cold war ended. And I think this group of people were looking for a new bogey man, a new threat to the national security of the US and they found it because of the very strong influence, I think, of Israel among other things, in the Arab world and the Islamic world. Of course, movements such as the Islamic Al-Qaeda did not help. They provided the pretext, and the context for even pushing these ideas even further. And what we have now is the same people, a next generation, who would do all they can to perpetuate the conflict, because they benefit from the conflict. They benefit from situations of wars, of conflicts, and so on, and I think this is what enforces their hold over the American policy making in the world at large, and in the Middle East in particular.â€
We often wonder why people like Ledeen seem to be so interested in creating conflict for the sake of conflict. One reason is that people who are aware of the timing of a conflict are in a position to make money off it. Another reason is that this constant conflict constitutes the sole reason why these people have any power. They create an escalating series of problems, and then have to remain in power to ‘solve’ them. Of course, the solutions continue to lead to more conflicts. We can understand all the the talk about Iran as another example of creating a conflict which gives these characters something to do. While a civil war in Iraq benefits Likudniks in the American government and in Israel, it also benefits a guy like Cheney, whose only interest is in creating more power for Cheney. The United States has fallen into a vicious cycle where the jobs of the neocons and their fellow travelers like Cheney and Rumsfeld are dependent on their cleaning up the messes they have already started. An end to conflict would put them out of power, so we’ll never see an end to conflict.
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/
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October 12th, 2006 at 8:20 amRumsfeld was on the board of the Swiss company, Abb, that sold North Korea two nuclear reactors. And we’re supposed to swallow McCain’s ridiculous contention that the North Korea mess is all CLINTON’S fault?!? If you believe that, I have a bridge in Hungary to sell you.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:46 amPaul,
Our administration is too incompetent to plan, and carry out 9/11. Too many people that would have to remain quiet. But I DO BELIEVE they allowed it to happen. The Pearl Harbor of our century. Sadly it was 16 lone terrorists, and not some HUGE organization as our govt tells us.
And just curious Paul, what EXACTLY would make you lose this undying faith in our administration. 9-11 I was 100% behind Bush, But over the last 5 years I’ve seen nothing but failure after failure, corruption at the highest levels (Cheney & Haliburton). A larger more intrusive govt, higher taxes, less govt services that matter to me, like not waiting 4 hours to get a drivers license renewed. Local programs cut because fed govt is spending all our taxes, as well as BORROWED money in a war we’ll never win. Katrina, Abramoff, Foley, Delay, god the list goes on, and on, and on. Are you really this brainwashed? You are crazier than those terriorists, BLINDLY following your leaders.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:32 amBushisSatan. I understand your confusion. Maybe it will help if I explain I have many doubts about the current administration. The reason I continue to support them is the void of alternatives from liberals. It has been 5 years since 9/11. Liberals have balked at every decision for at least the last 4. With all that time to disagree, shouldn’t you be able to now explain to me what your party would do differently that would solve the problems and also ensure our security? If you can, you should be in the democratic leadership, because they can’t do it.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:59 amOur administration is too incompetent to plan, and carry out 9/11. Too many people that would have to remain quiet.
Comment by BushIsSatan
The government has made such a fine job to make you believe that.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:26 amPaul,
You seem smart, if Al Qaeda was as really big and organized as our admin tells us, they could have easily struck america 100 times dont you agree? Poison our water, blow up our Nukular (Dubya spelling) facilities, fly planes big and small into things. We have millions of illegals from mexico who made it here, don’t ya think the terrorists could have made it, if after all there were any?
The govt NEEDS a new “ism”, we lost communism, now we have terrorism.
It’s really as simple as that.
ANY path would be better than the one we’re on. how about instead of spending 3 billion a month in Iraq, we spend 3 billion a month on education for all America? Health care? Infrastucture? R&D?
Perhaps if we stop messing in other countries beliefs, and natural resources they would generally stop attacking us.
For as long as there is religion that cannot accept another, we’ll kill each other.
But to take away all our rights because of 16 terrorists attacking us, is just friggen insane. The terrorists will continue (both Domesitic terrorists, and Foreign, can you spell McVeigh?). People are just messed up in the head. And sadly it’s gonna get worse before it gets better, if it can. What worries me is nutjobs like Rummy and Cheney being so close to “The Button”. Yes I worry more about them than NK, Iraq, Iran, and ALL the terrorists combined.
The middle class in this country is falling apart. I personally now save less than I did 6 years ago, because my wages have not kept up with fuel prices, which have effected everything else. Heating my house seems to have increased 80% over the last 5 years, my 2001 heating bill in Jan was appx $100, now its $180, and I keep the house 2 degrees cooler.
One thing I would do would have the govt take over the Oil Companies.
Such a precious, finite naturual resource should not be in the control of greedy coorporations. Govt is to keep capitalism in check.
A friend once told me the last pope once said. (true or not I don’t know)
“The only thing worse than communism, is unchecked capitalism. And that’s what we have in our country. The news media is pretty much controlled, and just for entertainment and ratings. Most ALL of our administration is corrupt, but I do tend to see (D) voting for more things which might help, like “Congerssional Oversight” voted down by the majority of congress which just happens to wear the (R) label.
So in closing, ANY alternative by the D is welcomed by me, if even just for new faces in washington. More of the same, or stay the course will only bring on the further decline of the country I love.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:38 amBushIsSatan. I absolutely agree with your comment about religions unable to tolerate other religions. I think there is something about monotheistic religions that promote the intolerance. I also think you are right about Al Qaeda. They are capable, but I believe they are distracted. They know they can’t afford to give up Iraq to freedom and democracy. I believe, if the fight wasn’t concentrated in Iraq and Afganistan, Al Qadea would have easy access here, as you have described. I see your point that your economic situation is worse than it was in the past. I believe that, as a whole, the U.S. standard of living is improving. Of course, that is debateable, and doesn’t help much, if it doesn’t apply to your personal situation. I also believe, if your view becomes more and more prevalent, the leadership of this country will change (maybe next month), because we are still a democracy.
October 12th, 2006 at 11:21 amI don’t know who Mc cain’s political advisors are, but he should fire them if he wants a chance at precidency.
Bush ain’t an asset, but a liability.
If Mc Cain is promoting bush’s foreign policy of “regime change” he’s nuts too.
October 12th, 2006 at 11:34 amRepublican blame game. The party of irresponsibility.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:04 pmPaul,
But it’s not Al Qaeda in Iraq, there presence there if any is over blown, thats why every month there is a new “#2″ we capture or kill. Cuz it’s all made up to make you feel good that we’re doing “something” worth while there.
The people killing us hated us there before we invaded, now we just have increased their recruitment efforts by killing 40K-200,000 more.
Not only that the rest of the world hates us too, ever notice there are several foreign posters here on this site? Sad that we’ve become a country so fat and lazy that most people still don’t have a clue, yet people who don’t even live here know more of what’s going on.
If you were a terrorist, where would you strike more terror, in USA? or a few soldiers in Iraq? Your argument has no factual, or common sense behind it. Stop believing we’re fighting them over there so we don’t fight them over here. We’re only recruiting more hatred of America., from long time allies, and enemies.
Ever play cowboys and indians as a kid, or play-war? Stop for 20 minutes and pretend you’re Al Qaeda, where would you want to strike at america? A few soldiers in Iraq that no one will ever hear about other than “5 more soldiers died today in Iraq” on your TV. Or perhaps hijcaking a 18-wheeler loaded with gas/chemicals and blow it up in a major part of town? THAT IS TERRORISM.. not taking out a few soldiers, no disrespect to our soldiers.
Also everyone but this administration knows this country is in trouble.
Thats because their rich friends, and people who put them in power are richer than ever, their income increased on average of 40% and more in the last 6 years. We’re talking the upper 5% of earners.
Fact: Poverty has increased
Fact: Wages have not kept up with cost of living.
Fact: We’re a debtors soceity, and no longer ownership.
Fact: Trade Defecit worst ever, no relief in sight.
Don’t believe me, google, yahoo, will pop up plenty of links. If you think because the stock market reached an all time high we’re doing good, know what no matter what that market will continue to increase. But the market does not reflect how “John Doe” is doing, and it’s not doing good.
We’re riding a bubble of borrowed money from China… Someday, like ALL bubbles it will pop.. So unless YOU personally are a billionaire, you’ll be just like the rest of us when our dollar has no value in the world. Poor and hungry and Begging for a job. That upper 5% will still have all the wealth.. Thats the true mission accomplished most of the GOP and many dems too want.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:05 pmHellpig,
Go back to redstate.cum
Commie bastard.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:09 pmOf course a big government Liberal would like that. I have an Idea why don’t you move to Venezuela.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:35 pmOur Government now makes more per gallon (in the form of taxes) of fuel than do the oil companies and they do nothing to add value (No research, no drilling, no shipping, no refinement) Gas is still cheaper per gallon then most of the bottled water you drink.
Giving the goverment more control is a horrible idea. In Chavez’s case he uses it to buy political clout while his poor get much poorer.
paul #21
…So the NKoreans learned a GREAT lesson from…
…the American Indians…
October 12th, 2006 at 12:41 pmSteve,
Sorry I bought a case of bottled water for $2.99 24 x 24 oz bottles, thats cheaper than gas. STRAWMAN argument.
Big govt liberal LOL, coming from a supporter of the biggest GOVT EVER!!!!!! . Can you say Homeland SUCKURITY, biggest flop of govt money ever!Govt spending has increased more under this administration than any other. And sadly these “new services” are doing so very little but collecting a paychek to kill, destroy, spy, torture. and not providing any true social services. Last reports I read about homeland security, even their IT dept wasn’t secure. And they still haven’t done shit to make this country secure, aka borders, nukular plants, water supplies, air lines, etc, but hey I did hear they spent thousands on Ipods!
And have you been to Venezuala? Thought not, why not go there, reports that I’ve heard is that “Oil money” has done a lot of good for the people. you just dislike the country cuz he thinks like me, Bush is evil. (Well and 65% of america thinks bush is wrong) , just you few brainwashed idiots left.
You must be an oil man, (from being lubed up the ass so much) well know your time is short, we’re past peak oil. Too bad these oil companies were not investing in future “products”, they’re still stuck in the past like you Steve. Research on oil what a joke, drilling, what a joke lets destroy more fragile eco-systems for not even 1% of what we’ll use. Oil is so 1900’s….
Get off redstate.cum, rush, fux news and perhaps go see what “Social Oil has done for the people of Venezuela.” It may not be perfect, but at least they’re trying.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:19 pmBushIsSatan
Like I’m going to trust water that only cost $2.99 per case. see anything swimming around in there?
October 12th, 2006 at 1:48 pmHomeland security? No attacks on US soil since 911
Kill…… Who?
Spy…….Who?
Torture….. Who?
I have done my research on Venezuela and the supposed programs are not working. Chavez is trying to give away free or price reduced oil to people to gain favor while letting his people suffer. That doesn’t sound like trying to me.
Let me clarify a few things for you.
I dislike big government in all forms and I require my government to provide for the saftey of its citizens and to protect our freedoms.
I think alot of what Bush has done is wreckless as in spending and attempts at appeasement.
I’m not an oilman. I’m a US Autoworker.
Steve,
No attacks here? Ever think 9/11 was pretty much an isolated incident?
Just as there have been since the start of time. There’s no organized AL Qaeda, THINK DUDE.. Read my previous posts. Terrorism is not a big of deal as you want to believe. We’ll continue to be attacked, just as we have in the past, 93 bombing of WTC, all the planes, embassies blown up in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s. There have always been cultists, and always will be. But our govt is now one of those cultist organizations. Who “believe” they are doing right, but facts from our own govt organizations are telling us we’re doing wrong, and creating more people that hate the US. AGAIN.. Just because we haven’t been attacked in 5 years, doesn’t mean we won’t be. did you give clinton credit for not being attacked on american soil for 6 years? I think not.
As an autoworker you should value our image in the decline of domestic auto sales. Our world image by friends is to an all time low. Good luck keeping your job in the future. FYI I value buying american as much as probably anyone on this site. Every car I own has been american, every time I shop for something I TRY to buy american. But sadly most of what we make is not made here.
Kill who?? how about between 40,000 and 650,000 from the latest report, and thats just in Iraq, what about Afganistan. Hell what about this country from lack of healthcare.
Spy who?? Our own people, and everyone else.
Torture who?? Are you really that stupid, or just play an idiot online? Gitmo, Abu Ghirab come to mind.
For someone disliking big govt, you sure defend them pretty damn well.
October 12th, 2006 at 2:09 pmI’m against wasteful/destructive govt, govt insistant on spreading death, instead celebrating life, education, liberty, and freedom for everyone.
BushIsSatan
Lets look at this objectively and with facts.
9/11 an isolated incident. Not likely. Do you read news other then the liberal blather?
I read world news and particulary Arab News. Listen to what our enemies say. They are out to kill or convert every nonmusilm in the world. Not my words, thiers.
They have attacked England, Spain, and numerous other countries since 9/11. With the help of other countries we have foiled many more attempts.
Are we just supposed to say “Oh it was an isolated incident” and do nothing about it?
The IMAGEof my country doesn’t mean anything. If other countries want to cower in fear and go the route of appeasement that is thier right. If they think we should do the same i call them foolish. I could give a rats ass what others think as long as we are doing the right thing to protect our citizens.
While I don’t agree that the report of 650,000 have died in Iraq.
The report claims that 31% is attritible to US action. That is 201,500. Of that number how many do you think are enemy combatants? This supposed credible report is nothing more than a poll…. a sampling. Its easy to take a sample in the hardest hit areas and then apply it to the entire country to get the numbers you need to push an agenda. This is a guess not fact.
I might be worried about being killed or spied on…. IF I WERE A TERRORIST.
But I’m not so my freedoms are not infringed upon.
Torture. I have said before what you call torture is ridiculous. Oh maybe Abu Ghrab was just an “Isolated incident” LOL There is no proff of torture at Gitmo.
So if we are speading death what is your solution? Bring every American home troops and civilians alike and close up the borders and isolate ourselves from the rest of the world?
Oh my what would that do to our IMAGE?
October 12th, 2006 at 3:45 pm#310….Well said, Steve. Well said.
No wonder some people last night thought you were me!
October 12th, 2006 at 4:05 pmExley what I find curious about this site is that most people don’t want the truth.
They simply look for any shed of eveidence that appears to support thier ingrained belief. They don’t research or attempt to learn the truth.
It’s true that most people are sheep and just follow. The problem is the wolves will always prey upon the sheep. Wake up people and try to fit some logic into your drug induced brains.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:09 pmY Steve – It’s definitely an all-or-nothing proposition. When attacked, we can either A) go off half-cocked in crazy and expensive directions, or B) do absolutely nothing at all. Why do you keep poking at the strawman that says “we should do nothing about terrorism” Who in the hell ever said that Steve?!? The answer is NO ONE. Constantly with the false choices, the righties. “There are only 2 choices ever, in response to anything, ours, and the bad one, and everyone is free to choose between them, because there are no others, and anyone who says otherwise is a crazy liberal” WTF? Do you actually see in black and white? And you’ve got the giant metallic balls to suggest that people here are close-minded??
October 12th, 2006 at 4:18 pm#312, Steve
There is a certain pathology that affects many posters on this site. Their all-consuming (and baffling) hatred of Bush blinds them to the truth on any topic. When it comes to Dubya or the GOP, these people remind me of Prof. Quincy Adams Wagstaff (Groucho Marx) in “Horsefeathers:
October 12th, 2006 at 4:30 pm“I don’t know what they have to say / It makes no difference anyway / Whatever it is, I’m against it. / No matter what it is or who commenced it, I’m against it! / Your proposition may be good / But let’s have one thing understood: / Whatever it is, I’m against it. / And even when you’ve changed it or condensed it, I’m against it!
Tom, been looking in my pants again? :)
Tom on here I see alot of complaining and patting each other on the back for having the same bitch and moan.
I thought with a name like THINK PROGRESS I might find people in here with Ideas how to make things better, but all I hear is a blame game. I hear no support for the country I love. I would like to see people who strive to make a positive difference, but mostly see name calling. Before you ask….. Yes I did wash my hands :)
October 12th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#316….Tom, pedantic provocateurs like Exley
That hurts my feelings, chacha!
October 12th, 2006 at 5:11 pmTom, I hear you and the filters are on. BTW 2004 election Bush won the popular vote. 51% as a matter of fact. Kerry got 48.3%
October 12th, 2006 at 5:16 pmC’mon, Ex – you know that I know that you don’t have any feelings – stop playing me for the “rube of the day”.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:30 pmSteve- thanks for splitting hairs again on the election thing, you’re as good at it as my 8 year old is at bedtime. The deal is, the W shouldn’t have been there for re-election in 04, ’cause he wasn’t elected in ‘00.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:52 pmTom
October 12th, 2006 at 6:14 pmI was think you were a straight shooter…. but please don’t tell me you are on this “Appointed not Elected” kick.
#41 Might A**hole, shut the f*ck up!!!!!
October 12th, 2006 at 8:07 pm#321 No wonder you don’t understand the election issue. You can’t even have use grammar well good.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:02 pm#301. For the past 2000 years Liberalism has been the direction of history. And since progression is part of Liberalism you can say that it has been going on for 100,000 or even more than billions of years!!!
October 12th, 2006 at 10:57 pm308.
“Kill…… Who?
Spy…….Who?
Torture….. Who?”
Have you read a newspaper or watched the news in the past 6 years? I have, ‘tard. So I know who!
October 12th, 2006 at 11:06 pm312. “Wake up people and try to fit some logic into your drug induced brains.”
You’ll be suprised what a drug induced brain will accomplish…
October 12th, 2006 at 11:10 pm314. “There is a certain pathology that affects many posters on this site. Their all-consuming (and baffling) hatred of Bush blinds them to the truth on any topic.”
Or maybe we are righteous to defend the majority of good in this world against the evil that is stupidity and lack of conscience.
And maybe your psychologically projecting.
October 12th, 2006 at 11:16 pm315.”I thought with a name like THINK PROGRESS I might find people in here with Ideas how to make things better, but all I hear is a blame game. I hear no support for the country I love. I would like to see people who strive to make a positive difference, but mostly see name calling.”
We are making things better, we are fighting you.
Republicans/Conservative/Church-Legistation/Psychopaths out of control of every aspect of our society is how things will get better.
It’s the eternal battle of good and evil. And evil is a old woman’s ideologies from the 1800’s in the minds of our congress and white house, creating legislation based on fear, paranoia, prejudice, and intolerance.
Conservatives do not strive to make a positive difference. And if you know politics at all you would know they oppose change at all costs.
October 12th, 2006 at 11:27 pmYes they do love deleting critical comments.
October 13th, 2006 at 11:44 pm