After Blaming Clinton For North Korea Nuke, McCain Blasts People ‘Engaging In Finger-Pointing’
After Blaming Clinton For North Korea Nuke, McCain Blasts People ‘Engaging In Finger-Pointing’
Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) explicitly blamed the Clinton administration for North Korea’s nuclear weapons test on Sunday: “[I]t is a failure of the Clinton administration policies…that have caused us to be in the situation we’re in today.”
This morning on NBC, “Straight Talk” McCain had a different tune: “I think this is the wrong time for us to be engaging in finger pointing when in this crucial time, we need the world and Americans united.”
Watch the clips back to back:
For the record, here is a timeline of North Korea’s nuclear weapons development. A cheat sheet:
Bush I: 1-2 bombs worth of plutonium
Clinton: Zero plutonium
Bush II: 10-11 bombs worth of plutonium and counting, first nuclear test
Full transcript:
McCain, 10/11/06, NBC Today
I think this is the wrong time for us to be engaging in finger pointing when in this crucial time, we need the world and Americans united in going to the United Nations to bring about sanctions against North Korea.
McCain, 10/10/06, press conference:
We had a carrots and no sticks policy that only encouraged bad behavior. When one carrot didn’t work, we offered another. Now we’re facing the consequences of the failed Clinton administration policies.
McCain, 10/10/06, Hannity & Colmes:
The fact is that it is a failure of the Clinton administration policies that I was heavily involved in at the time that have caused us to be in the situation we’re in today.
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October 11th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
hypocrisy? or conveniently forgot about the day before? ummmmm…….
October 11th, 2006 at 12:59 pmthe war on parody continues
October 11th, 2006 at 1:01 pmwhere’s Roger Ailes and Lee Atwater—- flip flop flip flop flip flop flip flop…
October 11th, 2006 at 1:03 pmit’s my finger and I’ll point if I want to, point if I want to, point if I want to
October 11th, 2006 at 1:03 pmyou would point too if it happened to you
(sorry Lesley)
anyone need further proof that torture marks a person forever - Johnny Mac is definitely suffering from some brain damage.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:04 pmQuick comment: reverse the order of the quotes, put the 10/11 one last. It’s more logical, and it makes the man look incompetent.
10/10: “the consequences of the failed Clinton administration policies”
October 11th, 2006 at 1:05 pm10/10: “it is a failure of the Clinton administration”
10/11: “this is the wrong time for us to be engaging in finger pointing”
Has this guy lost his mind or is he just plain stupid?
October 11th, 2006 at 1:06 pmfwiw, http://www.theworstpresidentever.org is still under a viscious Freeper attack.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:07 pm[…] Original post by Nico Read More… […]
October 11th, 2006 at 1:10 pmDoes this guy not know only Dummycrats are allowed to point fingers? If your not pointing at a Republican then don’t point at all. Besides, Clinton is the master of fingerpointing.
I did not have sexual relations. . . .
You think you so smart . . .
October 11th, 2006 at 1:10 pm“it is a failure of the Clinton administration policies that I was heavily involved in at the time that have caused us to be in the situation we’re in today.”
Uhhhh, doesn’t that make you a failure, then, McCain? Hmmm?
October 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmand he wants to be president…..god help us.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:14 pm#8 RATFASP
All of the above!
Actually McPain thinks he is emulating Reagan but his Alzheimer’s makes him forget that Reagan had Alzheimers.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pm8. Has this guy lost his mind or is he just plain stupid?
No, he’s just shameless. I have to say, though, this reminded me of a Wolf Blitzer interview from about 18 months ago on this very topic. He was talking with Carl Levin and Norm Coleman, and Coleman wins the Olympic gold medal for shamelessness here:
“I don’t think finger-pointing is helpful here, Wolf.
“The reality is that Madeleine Albright and Bill Clinton negotiated bilaterally with North Korea, and they lied to them.”
Forget what he said yesterday, this is what Coleman said literally the last sentence!
You can see the transcript here.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/ 0505/ 01/ le.01.html
October 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pmNico - A quick question from someone who is not a “rocket scientist” - do you think NK developed these weapons in a flurry? Could they have been on the path to development previous to the current administration taking office?? Hmmmmm???
October 11th, 2006 at 1:18 pmMcCain is senile. He’ll never be president. He’s beneath contempt.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:18 pmMcCain’s a kook.
Now he’s afraid to face the Big Dog, Jowls vs. Clinton. My bet is on Clinton
October 11th, 2006 at 1:20 pmJohn McCain was for finger pointing before he was against finger pointing.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:20 pmDear Happy Guy - GREAT job!! I’ve heard from Headquarters - you’ll need to take over the “troll duties” - I’ve got a closing argument in a few hours….
Gotta run…
October 11th, 2006 at 1:21 pmDear Ms. Bucket -
Here’s four the mooonbats salivated over:
a.) the number of hurricanes last year -
b.) the hue and cry of spoiled kids everywhere - “they don’t like us”
c.) nuclear development in Iran
d.) tsunami in the Indian Ocean
Gotta run - - have fun!!
October 11th, 2006 at 1:24 pmHow about finger poking? Is that okay? Because I’d love to give this stooge a Moe Howard “two fingers to the eyes” nuck nuck nuk
October 11th, 2006 at 1:25 pmand he wants to be president…..god help us.
Comment by wisedup
Well since Bush became president, he became an instant inspiration to brainless morons everywhere that now think they too could become president someday as well. Having a brain is no longer a requirement for being president, unfortunately.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:26 pmYeah we need to find the dirt on McCain because he is clearly crazy.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI was unfortunate enough to see a photo of Mighty Aphrodite. It ain’t a pretty sight.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:28 pm18 - hate to hit you with the facts babe, but you actually asked for them this time.
the NK regime acquired their first batch of plutonium during poppy bush’s term. 1-2 weapons worth. they acquired none during clinton’s 2 terms, and now under dummy, they’ve acquired enough for about a dozen more.
oh - and that fact that you’re a lawyer does absolutely nothing to impress anyone, except the people that have to work with/for you, and they’re faking it.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pmNot according to how fast you morons think nukes can be made. Your arguement for Iran is they can be made inmonths. Your argument for North Korea is they take years (at least back to Clinton). Sorry mighty moron, you can’t have it both ways.
It either takes years, in which case we need to back the hell off Iran or it only takes a short period of time placing the blame for North Korea on Bush.
Take your pick. One way or the other.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pm#18 MA
If you will take the time to read the post before letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass you would see that your question is the heart of the post. NK was developing a nuke capability under King George the Elder and redoubled their effort when King George the Dumb stole the throne. For the eight years of a President between the two dunces NK saw no need to defend themselves from some petty despot with a big mouth, a crazy ass-kissing Cabinet, an ass for an advisor, and no brains. If I were the leader of NK I would be doing everything to protect my Country from the Chimp in Charge of the USA.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pmCould they have been on the path to development previous to the current administration taking office?? Hmmmmm??? Piddles
“On the path to development?”
Do you also use weasel words in court? Rummy was on the board of the company that sold nuclear reactors to North Korea. Deal with the facts, not what you wish them to be.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:31 pmYeah Happy Guy. That was brilliant. You were able to say nothing at all and look like your strong for your side. Ignore what’s said, or any recent past (say the last 5 years) and dust off that tried and true “Clinton’s to blame”. Do you allow your kids to use an excuse that’s 5 years old? Does your boss accept a 5 year old excuse? When you don’t perform in the bedroom does your wife accept that same old tired 5 year old excuse? If so, then sorry for you and your life. If not, then don ‘t push it here.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:31 pmand, as a reward for her extra effort on this thread, i’m promoting MA to the rank of full-on c**t, and so shall she be called, from this day forward, amen.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pmMcCain has been hanging around the White House too long — he contradicts his own words within 24 hours, he falsely accuses others of failure while defending the failures of the past 6 years.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pmThis is the man who aspires the presidency.
McCain - please retire before you embarrass yourself further.
After engaging in hyperbole EVERY time she posts here, MA gets indignant when TP puts two actual quotes together…
National Security is at stake, MA. Blaming one’s predecessor is the action of a whining failure.
George Bush’s JOB was to FIX what his predecessor did wrong. He had all the tools he needed. He had the time. He had the opportunity. Nobody stopped him, nobody slowed him down: People were even willing to lay aside their civil liberties, let him work like a wartime absolute commanderto get the job done. He himself pointedd out the job–showed us the Axis of Evil himself.
And he’s failed at his job. We have a smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud.
The Republicans have failed, and now they’re whining about Clinton.
An executive who turned in these sorts of results would be fired.
A field general who handled a campaign like this would be court-martialed.
It’s national security.
No excuses.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pmMcCain is right because the fingers are pointing at Republicans. The RIGHT time to finger point is only when it’s aimed at Democrats.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pmLadies and gentlemen, Think Progress presents the strongest presidential candidate the Republicans have in 2008.
You can start laughing now.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:34 pmwhat a glue sniffing idiot,, drug test this loser to
October 11th, 2006 at 1:34 pmTo point or not to point , flip flop ,flip flop , make up your mind .
October 11th, 2006 at 1:35 pmAnother would be president in agony , bail out man , your hypocrisy is on fire .
Happy - thanks for the dose of incoherent jibber jabber. I haven’t been able to get down to the bar yet today to hear the muttering of the hardcore drunks, so that came as a real comfort to me. Please keep posting.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:36 pmFrom Miss Flighty far Righty.
Dear Ms. Bucket -
Here’s four the mooonbats salivated over:
a.) the number of hurricanes last year -
b.) the hue and cry of spoiled kids everywhere - “they don’t like usâ€
c.) nuclear development in Iran
d.) tsunami in the Indian Ocean
Only one of the above is an actual disaster (the tsunami) and I don’t remember hearing anyone saying an act of god was Bush’s fault. So wrong on the only one that even qualifies for a disaster. As for the rest may I suggest you do some light reading. Something other than Coulter, Hannity, O’Reilly, or Mein Kampf.
You really are a sad, sad creature
October 11th, 2006 at 1:40 pmI hate to say it, but McCain still has a POW mentailty, doing what his captors instruct him to do. Now though his captors are the Bush administration and whatever it can offer McCain for his ‘08 bid. It suprises me how far McCain has fallen in these recent months.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:44 pmMcCain’s statement makes perfect sense. After he fingerpointed, he doesn’t think anyone else should be fingerpointing. He was the last one that should be able to do so. What do you know he is Republican presidential material. An ignorant ass.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:46 pmI hope that someone, like ThinkProgress (or even the Daily Show), would put together a video montage of Saint McCain saying “this is not the time to engage in finger pointing”. Then follow it up with McCain blaming a President who has been out of office for almost 6 years.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:50 pmThere are many instances of Saint McCain acting as though he was taking the high road, and refusing to lay the blame were it belongs.
[…] St McCain, he’s a uniter too. […]
October 11th, 2006 at 1:51 pmHis comments make perfect sense. He made the finger-pointing remark on Faux News and he made the more centrist remark in the MSM.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pmBe Prepared! Be Prepared! Be Prepared!
October 11th, 2006 at 1:58 pmIt’s going to happen with NK. Don’t we see that from the other disasters ie Katrina, Iraq… that Bush is unable to prepare for any possible outcomes. Who cares what McCain says, it’s what everyone should be telling Bush on what should we do now. I would tell Bush ‘get on the plane to China and make a plan with them’ or will we lose all Americans in South Korea.
Everything Republicans do or say is por the best interests of America and its citizens.
Everything anyone else says is finger-pointing, blame-gaming, playing politics, divisiveness, shrill rhetoric and blame-AMerica-firstism.
This attitude betrays the true agenda of the Republican party. They want to have total and complete power, unchecked and without any responsibility for their actions. Anyone who dares try to question them or hold them accountable will be attacked and their motives questioned to avoid the real issues. But really it is an attemp to send a message to anyone else who dares question the supreme rulers and their infallible leader.
This is sickening and there is no logical or intelligent reason the Republicans should continue to hold complete majority power come november. If they do then there is something seriously wrong with this country and its people.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:59 pmThe fact is that it is a failure of the Clinton administration policies that I was heavily involved in at the time that have caused us to be in the situation we’re in today. (Pointing middle finger.)
No facts, just fingerpointing. Now, do as I say, not as I do! (Familiar?)
CAPTION CONTEST:
October 11th, 2006 at 1:59 pmHanging around with the Chimp actually makes one retarded!
#47 - numfar,
October 11th, 2006 at 2:00 pmMickeyD’s has higher hiring standards.
US grants N Korea nuclear funds (2002)
October 11th, 2006 at 2:04 pmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1908571.stm
Excuse me Mr Mccain … just sayin’ … on who’s watch did North Korea test a NUKE? Were there any nukes developed or tested under Clinton’s watch? Nope. Clinton did his job. He stopped nukes from being developed. The CURRENT Admin failed because they were too pre-occupied in IRAQ for the last 4 years to deal with the REAL THREAT … and look what happened as a result.
These repubs are desperate and will blame anyone and anything for their gross mistakes. Never seen a more imcompetent bunch in my life.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:07 pmOh Please forgive him, he drunk when he blame Clilton. We just have him rehab. He is D-AZ, isn’t he?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:07 pmMcCain has gone over the edge of sanity, so he must be forced out of the Senate > shame on him!
October 11th, 2006 at 2:11 pmFinger painting is McKane’s specialty. He draws real nice pictures. His kids hang them up on their refrigerators with elephant shaped magnets.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:11 pmOh, you said finger pointing, never mind.
Bush I: 1-2 bombs worth of plutonium
Clinton: Zero plutonium
Bush II: 10-11 bombs worth of plutonium and counting, first nuclear test
The source cited by ThinkProgress for the claim that NK acquired no plutonium under Clinton is a fact sheet on Armscontrol.org referring to “The Agreed US-NK Framework”.
The first paragraph of that fact sheet tells you to refer to the full chronology of NK missile relations if you want to read about what NK actually did as opposed to what they agreed to do. A subtle difference.
That report states the following developments in regard to nuclear material for use in weapons:
May 1992 - NK declares 90grams of plutonium.
Feb 1993 - IAEA has strong evidence NK chearting it’s NPT obligations.
Apr 1993 - IAEA declares it cannot guarantee nuclear material isn’t being developed for military purposes
Late 1993 - CIA estimates 12kg of plutonium separated, enough for 1-2 weapons.
Jan 1994 - CIA estimates 1-2 nuclear weapons may have been produced.
…continues…
Oct 2002 - NK admits having a clandestine nuclear enrichment program.
Nov-2002 - US estimates spent reactor rods could produce enough material for one weapon per annum.
Apr 2003 - NK claims to have nuclear weapons
Jun-2006 - NK estimated to have enough material for 13 weapons.
Yeah… absolutely no nuclear production going on under Clinton right ?
Adter all G.W.Bush took office in 2001 and 2 years (or even 5 for that matter) is plenty of time to go from no material to 13 weapons worth and actually develop the weapons to boot right ?
You would have to be crazy to look at the source of this nuclear material, take the calculations of how long it would accumulate it from that source and then go to the wacky wingnut extreme of “counting backwards” to get a best estimate of how long it would have taken to produce that material.
After all, that would mean they were develping this throughout Clinton’s term in office and you already know NK agreed not to do that. This would be the 1994 agreement not to do shit for 8 years until 2002.
So, clearly the North Koreans pulled all this off in one single year during G.W.Bush’s presidency. It just makes sense.
You know it does. That’s why you’re the reality-based crowd and right-wingers are gullible, dishonest and prone to using misrepresented facts to hold onto their pre-existing conclusions about the successes and non-failures of particular Presidents.
October 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pmFrom panc’s BBC link on the US giving NK $95 million in 2002 for nuclear reactors.
Ha, busted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pm“Insane McCain”
October 11th, 2006 at 2:29 pm[…] You can actually see it… like time-lapse photography of a plant growing. First McCain holds a press conference and says the following: We had a carrots and no sticks policy that only encouraged bad behavior. When one carrot didn’t work, we offered another. Now we’re facing the consequences of the failed Clinton administration policies. […]
October 11th, 2006 at 2:35 pmWho wants to “unite” with imbeciles?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:46 pmMcCain = Republican lap dog. Flip-flopper. He bent over for the right-wing freaks and they now own him. He no longer resembles the McCain of yesteryear. He has lost his integrity. Actually, he lost it during the lead-up to the war. You could see it in his face. He was saying we need to go to war, but his eyes were saying “they’re wrong.” Too late now for McCain. He is bought and paid for.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:03 pm#57
“A subtle difference.”
That is what TP is suggesting here…what is important to them is what was agreed to, not want was actually done.
The fact that NK was still enriching nuclear materials AFTER the BS bi-lateral talks that Clinton engaged in is exactly why those bi-lateral talks didn’t work. They had great political leverage with out having Japan, South Korea or China in the room. Which is why NK once again doesn’t want to engage in the multi-party talks. They want new one-on-one talks with the U.S. again so they can continue saying one thing and do another.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:19 pmTrashy #63
Pray tell…
…what’s to STOP NK from saying one thing and doing another…
…in 6 party talks?
October 11th, 2006 at 3:32 pmMcInsane says ‘Clinton had a carrot or two, but no stick’.
I say, Bush administration is all Stick & no carrots.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:34 pm(Can anyone say ‘Bolton Bush’?)
NK wants to have one on one talks because they have nothing but nukes, narcotics and funny money. Their only bargaining chip is nuclear weapons. So by all means let’s “Stay the Course” and not talk to the back against the wall, nothing to lose end of rope nutjob. That’ll show em. China will just love having millions flee fron NK into China because of sanctions.
I don’t care if it’s one on one or 6 on 1 talks. There needs to be dialogue and it needs to begin now.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:37 pm“The fact that NK was still (emphasis added) enriching nuclear materials AFTER the BS bi-lateral talks that Clinton engaged in is exactly why those bi-lateral talks didn’t (emphasis added) work. Comment by Tracyâ€
The fact that NK is again enriching nuclear materials AFTER the BS bi-lateral talks that Clinton engaged in is exactly why those bi-lateral talks did work.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:45 pmMcCain is lying about the lack of a stick.
From a 12.29.02 interview:
October 11th, 2006 at 3:48 pmJohn McCain has sold out every single American. John McCain has the blood of every American soldier who has died or been injured in Iraq on his hands. John McCain has the blood of every Iraqi killed in Bush’s war for control of the oil fields in Iraq on his hands. John McCain has given the finger to a God who gave McCain a chance to be a man of the people when he instead decided to be a republican. There is no shame great enough for McCain to feel, but perhaps, one day he’ll look at the shame he has brought to his family and that might be enough for him to change his ways. Until that day, McCain has proven himself not worthy of the trust of the American people, and in fact, he is a danger to the American people and our country.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:53 pmUmmm, Tracy.
I know Republiacns are fact-challenbge idiots, buyt you take the cake.
The Clinton agreement had nothing to do with Uranium enrichment. At the time, North Korea had broght an nculear plant on line that was producing weapons grade plutonium. Clinton’s agreement with them was 100% successful, until Bush goaded the North Koreans into breaking the deal in late 2002.
At that time they broke the seals on the Yongbyong plant, removed the monitoring devices, and kicked out the IAEA inspectors.
And, according to none other than Colin Powell in early 2003:
The Uranisum enrichment process is much more complicated an takes more time than simply reprocessing fuel rods at Yongbyang. So the matyerial that was used in the test )if it was in fact a nuclear test) was almost certainly weapons grade plutonium derived from Yongbyang. We know this because theybrought the plant back on line at the end of 2002.
Basically, John McCain is a lying sleazeball who’s covering up for the most incompetent President in US history.
October 11th, 2006 at 3:54 pmThis is actually Harry Truman’s fault
October 11th, 2006 at 3:58 pmIt is a common theme among GW Bush’s critics on the left to state that the reason why we have the nuclear proliferation crises that we have with regard to N Korea and Iran is that we have been “distracted” or “bogged down” in Iraq. I would ask these critics to propose what the US course of action should have been had we not been involved in Iraq. Would they support an all out invasion of either of these two countries to stop them from developing nuclear weapons?
Bombing either of these countries nuclear weapons development sites without invading is a shortsighted strategy bent for disaster. Bombing of N Korea would most certainly instigate a full-scale invasion of S. Korea by the north and would at least result in severe damage to Seoul since it is within artillery range of batteries within N. Korea. Iran would most certainly respond to an air attack on their soil by attempting to close the Straits of Hormuz with mines, small attack boats and land based anti-ship cruise missles. An attack on Iran would require military occupation of the coast of Iran at least surrounding the Straits if not the entire coast of Iran to successfully counter-act Iranian attacks on oil shipments from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain.
The fact is that to build a bomb a country needs knowhow, some hard to find equipment and fissile material. AQ Kahn supplied quite a bit of the first two to both countries apparantly. This activity had been going on throughout the Clinton administration and possibly into Bush 41 administration without the US discovering it. This is due in large part to our failure to foster an adequate human intelligence network following the Cold War. Both countries developed their own reactors from what I understand. The agreed framwork did very little to stop N. Korea from developing its nuclear program since it violated the agreement from the very start. Indeed, the economic assistance that the US gave N. Korea for our part of the agreed framework probably assisted them by providing economic and power resources they could divert toward their program that they otherwise would have been lacking.
Negotiation with either of these countries is pretty pointless. Both countries want nuclear weapons because both are at the top of the “Enemies of the United States” list and hence are looking for a nuclear weapon to protect them from becoming the next Afghanistan or Iraq. They are there on that list because the nature of their governments are incompatable with peaceful coexistance with the US. Both governments owe their continued existance to brutal repression of their populations which is anathema to American values. The only real solution to the conflicts with these two countries is to use our influence to isolate these countries as much as possible economically to force a change in their governments to one more to our liking.
October 11th, 2006 at 4:37 pmNow, lets try to find a way to blame Saddam for the 655,000 dead iraqi’s since his ousting.
October 11th, 2006 at 5:51 pmI still cannot believe that the press was ever bamboozled by this creep. He is as sleasy as any politician who has rode in with a carpetbag, will say anything, do anything, if he thinks it is a path to power. He has no principles, no integrity, and apparently, no sense. He’s a tool, like all the rest. Truth means nothing, facts even less.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:03 pm#33 - “and, as a reward for her extra effort on this thread, i’m promoting MA to the rank of full-on c**t, and so shall she be called, from this day forward, amen.” Comment by tom+baker
*******Dear Tom - Thank you for your fine and illustrative example why sooooo many people think a cat has better morals than Dems.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:04 pmChris, the same could be said of the Soviet Union. They were our arch enemy and was against everything we stood for. It was diplomacy and pressure that worked. Not even talking to them will do nothing for us.
And Flighty far Righty. Extra vowels don’t make a view point any more valid. If that was the case I could use any number of polls today would show how soooooooo many more people are fed up with the Republicans and the missdirection they have caused. Morals? DeLay, Frist, Cunningham, Rove, Wolfowitz, Cheney,…….Just saying words doesn’t make them so. Or in your case soooooooo.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:13 pmBill -
No, it’s FDR’s fault for giving away China to Uncle Joe at Yalta.
CHRIS -
Here’s an idea: back in 2001, why not try the same carrot-and-stick strategy and tactics as Clinton, updated to preclude uranium enrichment (in addition to the plutonium being locked up). Oh, right, BushCo couldn’t do that because “Clinton BAD! Me do opposite of what Clinton do!”
Of course, then your Chimperor couldn’t prove what a manly man he is. Only by going after Saddam could the world know how big his balls are, etc.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:22 pmMcCain is a Stooge
McCain does not know that he has worn out his P.O.W. credibility by pimping any gross concept that needs to be pushed out from the Republican Pulpit.
Can someone drop him a line and let him know.
Seriously, I used to respect and like the guy.
My Grandfather (a veteran) used to respect him also. After he signed the torture bill my Grandpa cursed and spit on the ground when I mentioned McCains name. I spent 16 months in Iraq, so I have already lost respect for everyone in the Bush Administration.
FYI, I used to be a Republican and I believed in U.S.A. … now I am just part of D.U.M. America (Disenfranchised Unrepresented Masses).
The word among real military men is that based on McCains current behavior, he was most likely the Prison Camp stooge, snitching out all of the other P.O.W.’s for more food.
After watching McCain over the last few years, most military men and women assume that McCain was most likely the Prison Camp stooge, snitching out all of the other P.O.W.’s for more food. His behavior indicates that he is not any sort of American Hero and his will is very weak.
October 11th, 2006 at 6:27 pmLet’s call it what it is:
The Jive Turkey Express
October 11th, 2006 at 6:28 pm#77 - “….the same could be said of the Soviet Union. They were our arch enemy and was against everything we stood for. It was diplomacy and pressure that worked. Not even talking to them will do nothing for us.
And Flighty far Righty. Extra vowels don’t make a view point any more valid. …..” Comment by helenabucket
********Dear Ms. Bucket, Go back and find the names of the former Soviet Unions dictators with whom WE did not engage in diplomatic talks. (Hint: they were in office BEFORE Gorbachev.) President Reagan knew they were such ideologues that compromise with THEM would be dangerous and a collossal waste of time. It was not until Gorbachev was nudged by peristroika that meaningful talks were able to get under way.
And please go back and read the mysoginist, tom+bakers’ enlightening nugget in post #33. THEN come back and discuss vowels with me….. while you’re busy ignoring vulgarity…..I just hope tom has no daughters….
I admired the effort of Bill Clinton with NK - but that poorly coiffed psychopath can not be trusted. Unfortunately, it was a case of wanting to believe the best - all the while the LIAR was stabbing us in the back with regard to that agreement. We need the efforts of NK’s pressure point, China, whose leadership is no friend of ours.
Dinner time…..
October 11th, 2006 at 8:52 pmI think a reprise of my McCain=whore is appropriate right now.
October 11th, 2006 at 10:37 pmSeparating plutonium (A waste product of heavy water reactors) is a simple chemical/refinement process that does not require much science. A second advantage is that plutoniun is so unstable that a 1 kiloton explosion can be achieved by simply pouring enough of the stuff (from more than one source) into a bucket. A U235 reaction has to be contained in order to produce anything more than a molten slag. The advantage of U235 devices is shelf life - tens of years as opposed to years for plutonium devices.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:06 pmIf we can detect any release of radioactive gas by-products, or a neutrino spike, we will have to assume that the DRPK test consisted of a group of peons dumping purified plutonium into a common pile and getting their asses baked.
How sweet it is to see this joker (McCain) for what he is.He would say anything to get elected.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:35 pmI don’t get those who claim that there’s “no way” NK could have developed the bomb in the last 2-5 year. Look at the history of the Manhattan Project. The idea for the possibility of a bomb was conceived by Szilard in 1939.
October 11th, 2006 at 11:37 pmThe project seriously started in 1942 and exploded their first bomb (Trinity) in mid-1945. Now in that time they had to invent the damn things, prove that the concept(s) would even work, formulate a whole new subfield of physics, make measurement, devise new High Expolosives techniques (for the Fat Man), find a way to extract the purified Uranium or Plutonium, etc. They started from nada and had a bomb in roughly 3 years from the point of a serious start. Nowadays the concepts of how bombs are built and a lot of the data needed are easily available and don’t have to be reinvented or discovered. Could NK have gone from nothing to bomb solely during the W era? You bet your ass.
[…] Update: Right after John “Straight Talk” McCain’s finger pointing, http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/mccain-nk/ McCain blasts people for finger pointing. […]
October 11th, 2006 at 11:39 pmThis guy has lost his mind?!
October 12th, 2006 at 12:53 am[…] It certainly bears repeating: […]
October 12th, 2006 at 12:54 amMy PhD advisor claimed that he could personally assemble a plutonium device in a semester using stored waste from our campus reactor at Texas A&M. He also said that he would die of cancer within the following year if he did, but that was merely an issue of dedication. We also studied what were called high-energy short-term reactors with a fission igniter. The technology is basically back yard mechanics for physicists.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:08 amI don’t get those who claim that there’s “no way†NK could have developed the bomb in the last 2-5 year. Look at the history of the Manhattan Project…
Comment by physicist — October 11, 2006 @ 11:37 pm
And you will continue to not understand them until you actually look at what reasons they cite for these claims. If you did you would notice that your Manhatton history lesson not only does not address these reasons, it doesn’t even refer to them.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:50 amChris asks what should have been done about North Korea and Iran if the US had not been involved in Iraq. The answer lies in looking at what these countries really want (as opposed to the Bush approach of telling them what they ought to want).
Iran was no friend of Saddam Hussein, but neither does it want western interference in the Muslim world. Without the Iraq War, it is likely that Iran’s relations with the US would have gradually improved, particularly if Bush had made any serious effort to continue Clinton’s efforts to achieve a fair settlement of the Palestinian issue (another Iranian objective). An iran on better terms with the US would be less eager to develop nuclear weapons.
North Korea fears a US invasion, and this fear drives its weapons programme. However, it also badly needs financial help, because its Stalinist policies have combined with several years of drought to wreck its economy. It is strange that Republican ideologists are so keen on financial incentives at home, but rarely seem to consider using them in international relations. Financial assistance to develop NK’s economy in return for verifiable abandonment of its nuclear weapons programme would be achievable if the US were not so gung ho as to make NK doubt its sincerity in leaving the country at peace. China would also cooperate in this, because it fears a flood of refugees from North Korea if the economy there continues to worsen.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:21 amTrouble is McCain can’t remember what he said yesterday…..the late stages of dementia are hard on evrybody, especially those who have to listen to it’s inane, pointless, irrelevant ramblings (I’m talking about McCain, not the Chimp).
To the trolls, go bore someone else….or you’ll win the Major Frank Burns Award for the saddest most delusional and boring Troll going round.
October 12th, 2006 at 11:00 am#64
“The IAEA has never substantiated that claim, as far as I’m aware of.”
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron.asp#1994
“February 15, 1994: North Korea finalizes an agreement with the IAEA to allow inspections of all seven of its declared nuclear facilities, averting sanctions by the United Nations Security Council.
March 1, 1994: IAEA inspectors arrive in North Korea for the first inspections since 1993.
March 21, 1994: Responding to North Korea’s refusal to allow the inspection team to inspect a plutonium reprocessing plant at Yongbyon, the IAEA Board of Governors approves a resolution calling on North Korea to “immediately allow the IAEA to complete all requested inspection activities and to comply fully with its safeguards agreements.â€
“May 19, 1994: The IAEA confirms that North Korea has begun removing spent fuel from its 5-megawatt nuclear research reactor even though international monitors were not present. The United States and the IAEA had insisted that inspectors be present for any such action because spent fuel can potentially be reprocessed for use in nuclear weapons.”
The IAEA is only allowed to inspect what NK want’s them or allows them to inspect which only included reactors shut down in 1994. NK was busted for their admitted clandestine program in 2002.
http://www.nti.org/ e_research/ profiles/ NK/ index.html
“Discrepancies between North Korean declarations and IAEA inspection findings indicate that North Korea might have reprocessed enough plutonium for one or two nuclear weapons. According to a December 2001 National Intelligence Council report, the U.S. intelligence community ascertained in the mid-1990s that North Korea had produced one, possibly two, nuclear weapons.
In mid-2002, U.S. intelligence discovered that North Korea had been receiving materials from Pakistan for a highly enriched uranium production facility. In October 2002, the U.S. State Department informed North Korea that the U.S. was aware of this program, which is a violation of Pyongyang’s nonproliferation commitments. North Korean officials initially denied the existence of such a program, but then acknowledged it. The U.S. responded by announcing in November 2002 that it would suspend heavy fuel oil shipments being provided under the terms of the Agreed Framework, which had led North Korea to freeze its plutonium production facilities. Pyongyang then declared the following month that it was lifting the freeze on its nuclear program, ostensibly to generate electricity. In late December 2002, North Korean technicians broke seals and disabled cameras that had been installed by the IAEA in order to monitor the freeze. North Korea expelled IAEA inspectors on 31 December 2002, curtailing the Agency’s capacity to monitor Pyongyang’s nuclear activities. The IAEA has not been able to verify the completeness and correctness of North Korea’s initial declaration submitted in 1992, and the Agency cannot verify whether fissile material has been diverted to military use.”
October 12th, 2006 at 12:12 pm#65
Considering if China, you know that state the props up NK and is responsible for their entire existance as a county today, is party to the talks you can rest assured that if their is no or liminted economic assistance from them, NK will fold. During bilateral talks with NK and the U.S., NK wasn’t under any pressure from the U.S. like they would be under China. BTW it’s already been proven that the bilateral talks that Clinton had with NK didn’t stop them from continuing their nuclear weapons program.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:17 pm#68
That’s if you believe that NK ever stopped enriching nuclear materials during the 1990s.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:19 pmIf you think DRPK developed anything than you’ve forgotten about Bushies favourite author Mushariff of Pakistan and the” nukualar “flea market run bY A.J.Khan. Why do you need R&D when you can get anything you want at” A.J.’s resturant”. Listing three countries as members of the axis of evil, brilliant statesman like move ( all three of which have or had leaders who are basically megalomanical paranoid religious nut jobs, which seems to be a requirement to lead any country these days) then attack one of the three is it any wonder the other two, who you refuse to talk or negotiate with, would attempt to arm themselves to the teeth. The only wonder is why is Cuba not persuing nukes, since they have recently found a large reserve of oil of their shoreline.
And Clinton had eight years to stop the Cuban nuclear proliferation ( I wanted to be the first to put that in writing before Johnny Mac could use it).
To quote the bon vivant, philosopher and physcopathic killer Charlie Manson ” used to be it meant something to be crazy, today everybodies crazy”.
October 12th, 2006 at 12:20 pmre; 99
October 12th, 2006 at 12:26 pmI believe that’s DPRK, you know the place run by Kim Jong Il, son of Men Ta Lee Il.
Trashy #97
First of all NK (and L’il Kim) would’ve been foolish to believe anything the Whiteman speak with forked tongue Americans had to say on nuclear proliferation talks that don’t require the US to SHOW they are disarming as well…
…but as for your comments on China…
…are you stupid AND blind, or just STUPID!
…China doesn’t want L’il Kim’s regime to fail bec that’d mean millions of NK refugees flooding china’s southern borders…
…talk about a headache…
…what’s more DUMMY, china is ORCHESTRATING this whole thing…
…do YOU think China loves your al Cracker, hegemonist, racist, imperialist war mongering, mass murdering, exploitative ass?
October 12th, 2006 at 12:27 pm#71
The Clinton agreement had nothing to do with Uranium enrichment.”
I never said it did.
“Clinton’s agreement with them was 100% successful, until Bush goaded the North Koreans into breaking the deal in late 2002.”
There is no proof of that.
“So the matyerial that was used in the test )if it was in fact a nuclear test) was almost certainly weapons grade plutonium derived from Yongbyang. We know this because theybrought the plant back on line at the end of 2002.”
Do we know for sure where the nuclear material came from?
October 12th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#101
“…China doesn’t want L’il Kim’s regime to fail bec that’d mean millions of NK refugees flooding china’s southern borders…”
When did I ever say that I think China wants the NK regime to fail?
October 12th, 2006 at 1:19 pmTracy,
IT makes no logical sense for the North Koreans to not use the readily available PLUTONIUM they had for a nuclear test, instead of waiting another 5-10 years to develop a full-blown Uranium enrichment program.
That’s sheer nonsense.
They used the Plutonium. And we know the Plutonium wasn’t generated on Clinton’s watch because the IAEA had seals on the Yongbyong facility, monitering equpitent ,and IAEA observers preventoingh the plant from going online.
The very succeess of that is WHY the North Koreans decided to pursue uranium enrichment in the first place.
I’m sorry, but trying to pin this one on Clinton only makes you look incompetent.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:41 pmThat’s if you believe that NK ever stopped enriching nuclear materials during the 1990s.
Well, we know they weren’t producing any plutonium. The Yongbyong reactor was shut down, placed under seal, and installed with monitoring devices.
And our intelligence believes that they may have started pursuing Uranium enrichment sometime in 1998 or 1999. It’s not clear, though, when our intelligence actually learned about this. We certainly confronted them about it in mid-2002. Which indicates that we didn’t have enough evidence of it until shortly before then.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:44 pmChris said:
It is a common theme among GW Bush’s critics on the left to state that the reason why we have the nuclear proliferation crises that we have with regard to N Korea and Iran is that we have been “distracted†or “bogged down†in Iraq. I would ask these critics to propose what the US course of action should have been had we not been involved in Iraq. Would they support an all out invasion of either of these two countries to stop them from developing nuclear weapons?
A) If your premises are correct, then the same arguments apply to the dimwitted Clinton critics, especially John McCain.
B) Clinton didn’t have to actually launch an invasion of North Korea. Just plan for one. Thus, he got the excellent 1994 framework agreement that shut down the Yongbyong plutonium facility until Bush goaded the North Koreans into restarting it in late 2002.
As I pointed out upthread, Clinton had an actual “redline” policy, whereby we would launch military airstrikes to take out the nuclear facilities if they didn’t stop. IN 2002 and 2003, the Buhs policy was to gather ’round the campfire and sing “kumbaya” with our allies in the region, and China.
I agree with you, though, that there are no really good options. Thats why I believe bilateral negotiations with Pyongyang, coupled with US security guaranteees from Wahington as the ultimate carrot, are the only thing that has a chance of success.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:54 pm#104
“And we know the Plutonium wasn’t generated on Clinton’s watch because the IAEA had seals on the Yongbyong facility, monitering equpitent ,and IAEA observers preventoingh the plant from going online”
Are we sure that the Yongbyong facility was the only facility able to produce weapon’s grade plutonium? The plutonium could be extracted from the spent fuel that NK already had in large stock piles prior to 1994 using the PUREX process which is one of the facilities that the Yongbyong facility has on site, but has nothing to do with the reactor starting back up in 2003.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:26 pmIt’s fun to read how the Dems were once so in love with McCain and as soon as they hear him call the Clinton’s on the carpet, they hate him.
This is exactly why your party consists of a bunch of whiny, shallow, flip flopping, Soros types that allow others to do their fighting for them. That’s right, the reason the Dems are into appeasement is simple, they’re afraid to fight, and I’ll bet my kid could whip your kids ass, mentally and physically.
Bush is responsible for some failures…we get it! But have you lost your pithetic memories? Obviously none of you study history or check voting records of your beloved Clinton’s, Kerry’s and others that 90% of the time vote for appeasement.
You’re so naive!! This world has been falling apart for decades and all you can think about is how much you hate Bush….get over it and grow a spine.
October 16th, 2006 at 8:26 amFor once I have to agree with Fred Kaplan writing in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2151354/
And while we’re on the subject of Bushes doing nothing, George H.W. Bush, the president’s father, had just moved into the White House in 1989 when the CIA discovered that the North Koreans were building a reprocessing facility near their nuclear reactor at Yongbyon—the facility that could manufacture plutonium from the fuel rods. Five years later, Bill Clinton stopped them from moving the rods into this facility. Eight years after that, George W. Bush let them go ahead.
The rest is history. John McCain would do well to read up on it sometime.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:05 pm[…] Think Progress […]
October 18th, 2006 at 5:29 pm[…] Think Progress has the video. "Straight Talk" McCain said on NBC today, "I think this is the wrong time for us to be engaging in finger pointing when in this crucial time, we need the world and Americans united."read more | digg story Links […]
October 19th, 2006 at 3:36 pm[…] Page Summary: I have to say, though, this reminded me of a Wolf Blitzer interview from about 18 months ago on this very topic. Deal with the facts, not what you wish them to be. Another would be president in agony , bail out man , your hypocrisy is on fire . They want to have total and complete power, unchecked and without any responsibility for their actions.read more | digg story […]
October 27th, 2006 at 6:10 am[…] Since President Bush has been in office, North Korea has developed 10-11 bombs worth of plutonium, suitable for use in nuclear weapons, and conducted its first nuclear weapons test. All of the administration’s efforts to control North Korea’s nuclear program have failed. […]
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January 12th, 2007 at 1:25 am[…] McCain is right, but for the wrong reason. You see, one of Bush’s core policy imperatives is to always do the opposite of whatever Clinton did. So by implementing a modestly successful agreement with North Korea, Clinton all but guaranteed the situation we have today. […]
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January 23rd, 2007 at 12:36 pm[…] Meanwhile, under Bush’s “pragmatic” leadership, North Korea has developed 10-11 bombs worth of plutonium, suitable for use in nuclear weapons, and conducted its first nuclear weapons test. All of the […]
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