Comments on: ‘Hero Of Guantanamo’ Passed Up For Promotion, Sending Chilling Message Through Pentagon http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:29:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Mexico501 » Blog Archive » ‘Hero Of Guantanamo’ Passed Up For Promotion http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-1037264 Mexico501 » Blog Archive » ‘Hero Of Guantanamo’ Passed Up For Promotion Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:19:46 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-1037264 [...] Page Summary: Shinsecki was washed out of the military in the same fashion as Swift after butting heads with Rumsfeld. I never imagined that this kind of thing would ever happen. This has been proven to be false numerous times. Please provide one real instance in which torture has actually proven effective.read more | digg story [...] [...] Page Summary: Shinsecki was washed out of the military in the same fashion as Swift after butting heads with Rumsfeld. I never imagined that this kind of thing would ever happen. This has been proven to be false numerous times. Please provide one real instance in which torture has actually proven effective.read more | digg story [...]

]]> By: T. Denier http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-996307 T. Denier Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:41:02 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-996307 Vote the Neocons out? I don't think they were legally elected to begin with. ... Who should we elect? ... the evil globalist right - or the cowardly lion left? These same Democrats bow down and kiss georgie's boots whenever he snaps his fingers - and have passed every disgusting inhumane bill Bush set before them - they are both one in the same. Choosing between turd A & turd B is getting very old ... very fast. No matter ... the Diebold machines will decide the race not the voters ... voting anymore is just an exercise in futility. This country ran the best it ever has right after the Bush/Gore election when we went for 3 months with no president - and congress didn't vote on anything. Vote the Neocons out? I don’t think they were legally elected to begin with. …
Who should we elect? … the evil globalist right – or the cowardly lion left?

These same Democrats bow down and kiss georgie’s boots whenever he snaps his fingers – and have passed every disgusting inhumane bill Bush set before them – they are both one in the same.

Choosing between turd A & turd B is getting very old … very fast.
No matter … the Diebold machines will decide the race not the voters … voting anymore is just an exercise in futility.

This country ran the best it ever has right after the Bush/Gore election when we went for 3 months with no president – and congress didn’t vote on anything.

]]> By: Beverley http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-988316 Beverley Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:24:45 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-988316 When is it that WE the people are going to stop allowing this maniacal president to destroy our democracy??? Lt. Commander Smith is a hero and a dying breed in today's military. Until our servicepeople refuse to kill for this greed driven authoritarian madman, he'll "stay the course" no matter the cost. We've got to say NO at the polls AND our military must do what is right, honor their oaths of office, and follow the example of individuals like Smith who do the right thing no matter the cost. As a member of Military Families Speak Out we know this government is abusing our soldiers and not making available the care they require when they return. There is no doubt the majority of our soldiers know their primary purpose is to survive, not to defend freedom or democracy or even the Iriai civilians -- just stay alive. Shame on us. Shame on every one of us who does nothing while these criminals destroy the soul of our country. Stop the war in Iraq. Bring our soldiers home now. Care for them when they return. And never again allow an inperialistic despot to rape our national soul and pillaging our human and financial treasures. When is it that WE the people are going to stop allowing this maniacal president to destroy our democracy??? Lt. Commander Smith is a hero and a dying breed in today’s military. Until our servicepeople refuse to kill for this greed driven authoritarian madman, he’ll “stay the course” no matter the cost. We’ve got to say NO at the polls AND our military must do what is right, honor their oaths of office, and follow the example of individuals like Smith who do the right thing no matter the cost. As a member of Military Families Speak Out we know this government is abusing our soldiers and not making available the care they require when they return. There is no doubt the majority of our soldiers know their primary purpose is to survive, not to defend freedom or democracy or even the Iriai civilians — just stay alive. Shame on us. Shame on every one of us who does nothing while these criminals destroy the soul of our country. Stop the war in Iraq. Bring our soldiers home now. Care for them when they return. And never again allow an inperialistic despot to rape our national soul and pillaging our human and financial treasures.

]]> By: RickDerrig http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-982439 RickDerrig Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:25:56 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-982439 NoMoreBush, I don't think Lt. Commander Smith has had income as his priority. Yes, he can CERTAINLY add zeroes to the end of his income, but I think his dedication to service is important. Hopefully, when this corrupt administration is removed Lt. Commander Smith will be remembered for his commitment to our country and our Constitution and the next president asks him to fill a spot high in the military/JAG 'food chain' to foster and maintain a high regard for justice and the Constitution (something WE should all lobby to achieve). While the new administration is at it (if the Supreme Court hasn't already rectified the situation), the new laws allowing maltreatment of "detainees" and vacating of habeas corpus must be repealed -we need to reclaim our freedom SOON. Rick NoMoreBush,
I don’t think Lt. Commander Smith has had income as his priority. Yes, he can CERTAINLY add zeroes to the end of his income, but I think his dedication to service is important. Hopefully, when this corrupt administration is removed Lt. Commander Smith will be remembered for his commitment to our country and our Constitution and the next president asks him to fill a spot high in the military/JAG ‘food chain’ to foster and maintain a high regard for justice and the Constitution (something WE should all lobby to achieve). While the new administration is at it (if the Supreme Court hasn’t already rectified the situation), the new laws allowing maltreatment of “detainees” and vacating of habeas corpus must be repealed -we need to reclaim our freedom SOON.

Rick

]]> By: Bluestocking http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-981483 Bluestocking Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:24:15 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-981483 “[T]here is no denying the chilling message it sends to remaining military lawyers.” Chilling message??? No...this is an outright <strong>threat</strong>. Subtle, perhaps -- but a threat nonetheless. The message being sent to military lawyers is very clear...if you're a defense attorney and you represent an "enemy combatant", you'd better be prepared to lose either your case or your job because you won't be allowed to have both. “[T]here is no denying the chilling message it sends to remaining military lawyers.” Chilling message??? No…this is an outright threat. Subtle, perhaps — but a threat nonetheless. The message being sent to military lawyers is very clear…if you’re a defense attorney and you represent an “enemy combatant”, you’d better be prepared to lose either your case or your job because you won’t be allowed to have both.

]]> By: yangho http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-979471 yangho Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:20:00 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-979471 <blockquote> But I do disagree with the Supreme Court on the issue of torturing detainees. This is a vital method that can be utilized to prevent us as well as other countries from receiving massive terrorist attacks (Ex: London Heathrow). Comment by Daryll — </blockquote> Yeah, I kind of understand Daryll, to win TERRORIST, we much extreme TERRORIST. This is A WAR BETWEEN TERRORISTS.

But I do disagree with the Supreme Court on the issue of torturing detainees. This is a vital method that can be utilized to prevent us as well as other countries from receiving massive terrorist attacks (Ex: London Heathrow).

Comment by Daryll —

Yeah, I kind of understand Daryll, to win TERRORIST, we much extreme TERRORIST. This is A WAR BETWEEN TERRORISTS.

]]> By: ash http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-2/#comment-979373 ash Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:44:07 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-979373 It may (and does) get nastier than this. It may (and does) get dirtier. But it can't possibly get any pettier. It may (and does) get nastier than this. It may (and does) get dirtier. But it can’t possibly get any pettier.

]]> By: Jim+Source http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-979239 Jim+Source Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:09:35 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-979239 I'm thinking lead prosecutor on the impeachment legal team. I’m thinking lead prosecutor on the impeachment legal team.

]]> By: Theda http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-979117 Theda Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:41:35 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-979117 <blockquote>But I do disagree with the Supreme Court on the issue of torturing detainees. This is a vital method that can be utilized to prevent us as well as other countries from receiving massive terrorist attacks (Ex: London Heathrow). Comment by Daryll —</blockquote> Sorry Daryll, but torture only works on "24" not in real life. Torture only makes people tell you anything you want to hear so the pain will stop not because the person being tortured has any real, credible information. Professional interrogaters will tell you that kindness and talk will accomplish far more than pain. If torture worked then the Nazi's would have "won" WWII because they were firm believers in inflicting pain and death. If torture works then you apparently accept that all those folks who were accused of being witches 300 years ago were telling the truth and yes, they could fly on brooms and curse your cattle. Get real Daryll and stop sucking down the KooLAid before you drown in it.

But I do disagree with the Supreme Court on the issue of torturing detainees. This is a vital method that can be utilized to prevent us as well as other countries from receiving massive terrorist attacks (Ex: London Heathrow).

Comment by Daryll —

Sorry Daryll, but torture only works on “24″ not in real life. Torture only makes people tell you anything you want to hear so the pain will stop not because the person being tortured has any real, credible information. Professional interrogaters will tell you that kindness and talk will accomplish far more than pain. If torture worked then the Nazi’s would have “won” WWII because they were firm believers in inflicting pain and death. If torture works then you apparently accept that all those folks who were accused of being witches 300 years ago were telling the truth and yes, they could fly on brooms and curse your cattle. Get real Daryll and stop sucking down the KooLAid before you drown in it.

]]> By: JMohr http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-979115 JMohr Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:40:17 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-979115 I have been a JAG and well know the conflict between serving the law and serving in the military. Many JAGs believe that you are an officer first and an attorney second. I tend to disagree with that view. One can only serve the constitution, the law and the military by upholding the rule of law and the legal traditions of the bar. Lt. Cmdr. Swift found the penalty for living up to these traditions. As to Daryl( Heathrow #28) - Please save me from the usual litany that torture is an effective method of obtaining intelligence. This has been proven to be false numerous times. Please provide one real instance in which torture has actually proven effective. Also show how the wasted time and effort of following false and deceptive leads has ever been outweighed by actual genuine intelligence. Your Heathrow example merely exposes your ignorance on the subject. I did learn from my time as both a military and civilian prosecutor that torture (yes some overzealous cops will use it) never gained information of real value. Indeed, the investigators who usually used such methods never turned up usefull informations. They did turn up a lost of false leads and false confessions. I have been a JAG and well know the conflict between serving the law and serving in the military. Many JAGs believe that you are an officer first and an attorney second. I tend to disagree with that view. One can only serve the constitution, the law and the military by upholding the rule of law and the legal traditions of the bar. Lt. Cmdr. Swift found the penalty for living up to these traditions.

As to Daryl( Heathrow #28) – Please save me from the usual litany that torture is an effective method of obtaining intelligence. This has been proven to be false numerous times. Please provide one real instance in which torture has actually proven effective. Also show how the wasted time and effort of following false and deceptive leads has ever been outweighed by actual genuine intelligence. Your Heathrow example merely exposes your ignorance on the subject. I did learn from my time as both a military and civilian prosecutor that torture (yes some overzealous cops will use it) never gained information of real value. Indeed, the investigators who usually used such methods never turned up usefull informations. They did turn up a lost of false leads and false confessions.

]]> By: detepe http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978862 detepe Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:39:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978862 #28 London Heathrow? You mean the thwarted plot to use liquid explosives? I'm confused. Word I heard was that the Brits stopped it without our help - by using police work. Are we trying to take credit so waterboarding and all of their other "methods" sound like they work. Every U.S. intelligence officer I've heard interviewed says torture contraindicated if you want the truth. About the Swift news, looks like pretty soon we're going to be hearing about a shortage of good military lawyers if they let brilliant legal minds like Swift get kicked to the curb <em>because he won a case</em>. The military already has a shortage of Arab speaking personnel, but they fired some of the ones they had anyway, <em><strong>after</strong></em> investing thousands in getting them trained. Of course those guys were gay, and of course here in America your sexual preference necessarily stops you from being able to help fight the "war on terror". The shrub and his people need to get their heads out of their *#*es. #28 London Heathrow? You mean the thwarted plot to use liquid explosives? I’m confused. Word I heard was that the Brits stopped it without our help – by using police work. Are we trying to take credit so waterboarding and all of their other “methods” sound like they work. Every U.S. intelligence officer I’ve heard interviewed says torture contraindicated if you want the truth.

About the Swift news, looks like pretty soon we’re going to be hearing about a shortage of good military lawyers if they let brilliant legal minds like Swift get kicked to the curb because he won a case.

The military already has a shortage of Arab speaking personnel, but they fired some of the ones they had anyway, after investing thousands in getting them trained. Of course those guys were gay, and of course here in America your sexual preference necessarily stops you from being able to help fight the “war on terror”. The shrub and his people need to get their heads out of their *#*es.

]]> By: Jake http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978809 Jake Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:20:06 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978809 He was doing his job. His job was to be defense council. If they want to be angry with someone they can be angry at the Supreme Court, but not the lawyer, not for doing a good job. Basically, they are saying, when you're up against us, do a bad job and you'll get promoted. Hey, isn't that the Bush way? He was doing his job. His job was to be defense council. If they want to be angry with someone they can be angry at the Supreme Court, but not the lawyer, not for doing a good job. Basically, they are saying, when you’re up against us, do a bad job and you’ll get promoted. Hey, isn’t that the Bush way?

]]> By: SharonB http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978490 SharonB Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:55:09 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978490 Hopefully, Swift will accept a prosecutor job at the Hague. Hopefully, Swift will accept a prosecutor job at the Hague.

]]> By: SharonB http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978482 SharonB Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:53:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978482 Hopefully Swift will be willing to take a prosecutor job at the Hague soon. Hopefully Swift will be willing to take a prosecutor job at the Hague soon.

]]> By: bs http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978477 bs Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:51:53 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978477 #39 it is also the part of the ucmj code. so why with the illegal court martials? you'd think that pointing that out they all walk free. #39

it is also the part of the ucmj code. so why with the illegal court martials? you’d think that pointing that out they all walk free.

]]> By: Jebus+loves+me http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978472 Jebus+loves+me Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:50:26 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978472 I'm at a loss of words..... I'm so depressed right now. I can't believe that this country has sunk so low in its standards. I never imagined that this kind of thing would ever happen. I’m at a loss of words…..

I’m so depressed right now. I can’t believe that this country has sunk so low in its standards.

I never imagined that this kind of thing would ever happen.

]]> By: Dumb_Fox http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978346 Dumb_Fox Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:18:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978346 #31 - True... if you calibrate punishment only in monetary terms. #31 – True… if you calibrate punishment only in monetary terms.

]]> By: LAPDOG » Blog Archive » ‘Hero Of Guantanamo’ Passed Up For Promotion http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978325 LAPDOG » Blog Archive » ‘Hero Of Guantanamo’ Passed Up For Promotion Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:13:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978325 [...] Lt. Commander Charles Swift, the lawyer who represented Guantanamo detainee Salim Hamdan in the landmark Supreme Court case that ruled President Bush’s military commissions unconstitutional and in violation of international law, will be “passed over for promotion by the Pentagon and must soon leave the military.”read more | digg story [...] [...] Lt. Commander Charles Swift, the lawyer who represented Guantanamo detainee Salim Hamdan in the landmark Supreme Court case that ruled President Bush’s military commissions unconstitutional and in violation of international law, will be “passed over for promotion by the Pentagon and must soon leave the military.”read more | digg story [...]

]]> By: Spudge_Boy http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978277 Spudge_Boy Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:04:42 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978277 <blockquote>solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic</blockquote> That oath is pretty close to the one us enlisted people took. The important part is: enemies, foreign and <strong>domestic</strong> George Bush and company are domestic enemies against the Constitution. "It is just God damned peice of paper." Ring a bell to anybody?

solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

That oath is pretty close to the one us enlisted people took. The important part is:

enemies, foreign and domestic

George Bush and company are domestic enemies against the Constitution.

“It is just God damned peice of paper.” Ring a bell to anybody?

]]> By: Buford http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/comment-page-1/#comment-978235 Buford Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:53:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/11/swift-departure/#comment-978235 Sorry, but there is no honor in choosing to keep your job instead of your integrity. The fact that Bush has created an environment wherein officials are forced to sacrifice comforts in order to defend the Constitution speaks volumes about how bad a person Bush is, but these officials should never give in to Bush. Hopefully Swift will continue to be an outspoken critic of Bush's policies. However, no one should excuse other officials who choose to 'go along' with the environment Bush has created instead of actually defending the Constitution. Colin Powell, for example, should be prosecuted for not speaking out earlier and more vocally... he could have prevented a bunch of this mess, but instead he chose to be a good soldier. Sorry, but there is no honor in choosing to keep your job instead of your integrity. The fact that Bush has created an environment wherein officials are forced to sacrifice comforts in order to defend the Constitution speaks volumes about how bad a person Bush is, but these officials should never give in to Bush.

Hopefully Swift will continue to be an outspoken critic of Bush’s policies. However, no one should excuse other officials who choose to ‘go along’ with the environment Bush has created instead of actually defending the Constitution.

Colin Powell, for example, should be prosecuted for not speaking out earlier and more vocally… he could have prevented a bunch of this mess, but instead he chose to be a good soldier.

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