Report: Iraq Study Group Will Rule Out Victory In Iraq, Propose Redeployment
Report: Iraq Study Group Will Rule Out Victory In Iraq, Propose Redeployment
A 10-member bipartisan commission that is charged with assessing Bush’s Iraq strategy has reportedly “ruled out the prospect for victory.” The New York Sun reports:
A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.
Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by former secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, “Stability First” and “Redeploy and Contain,” both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.
The commission was established at the instigation of Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA), and was intended to “devise a fresh set of policies to help the president chart a new course.” Bush noted at his press conference this week that he “supported the idea” of the so-called Iraq Study Group and that he “looks forward to listening” to the commission’s recommendations. Among the leading options being considered by the task force is a redeployment plan:
The “Redeploy and Contain” option calls for the phased withdrawal of American soldiers from Iraq, though the working groups have yet to say when and where those troops will go.
Redeployment offers the last best chance for Iraq. The longer Bush refuses to accept that, the weaker the U.S.’s position unnecessarily becomes.
The Center for American Progress released its Iraq strategy — Strategic Redeployment — in September 2005. It called for the drawdown of troops over 2006 and 2007 to refocus their mission on the war against terrorist networks in the surrounding region. At the time the plan was first proposed, just over 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in the war. Today, the count stands over 2,750.
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So much for Bush’s Plan for Victory working. Just endless lies from the crook.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:55 pmOh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind. lol
October 12th, 2006 at 4:55 pmSo much for Bush’s Plan for Victory working that he spent months and millions lying to us about.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:56 pm[...] Redeployment offers the last best chance for Iraq. The longer Bush refuses to accept that, the weaker the U.S.’s position unnecessarily becomes. The Center for American Progress released its Iraq strategy — Strategic Redeployment — in September 2005. It called for the drawdown of troops over 2006 and 2007 to refocus their mission on the war against terrorist networks in the surrounding region. At the time the plan was first proposed, just over 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in the war. Today, the count stands over 2,750. Original post by Faiz Read More… [...]
October 12th, 2006 at 4:57 pmCan we throw Bush in the can now?
October 12th, 2006 at 4:57 pmThis just in from Fox News: The sky is blue.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:58 pmOperation Pull Back & Protect the Oilfields
October 12th, 2006 at 4:59 pmNo victory?
What about Democracy in the Middle East?
What about WMD?
What about Yellow Cake?
What about “fighting them over there instead of over here”?
What about… oi… my head hurts… these “cut and run” ReichWingNuts…
October 12th, 2006 at 5:02 pmSo would Bush’s plan for victory mean pulling out is victory?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:03 pmIf so, I’m all for victory!
Hmmmmm…
“Stability First†and “Redeploy and Contain†– - In other words, the John Murtha Plan. Why do we treat our troops as if they’re heartless, unfeeling automatons?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:08 pmSo, will the $20 million that’s in the 2007 budget be returned since we won’t be having any victory parties?
Of course, Bush will change course and say the study/commission is not credible.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:12 pmSo James Baker is a “defeat-o-crat”? He thinks we should cut and run? Why does the bipartisan commission hate America?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:14 pmHow did Clinton manage to mess this one up? Damn! that guy is sneaky.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:14 pmDidn’t James Baker say on the Daily Show that this report wouldn’t be released until after the election to remove the idea that it was released for “political” purposes? If so, I can understand why – God forbid the American public know that the current leadership is full of shit.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:16 pm“Redeploy and Containâ€
See, Bush had to “stay the course” until Rove could transform Murtha’s plan into a 3-word phrase.
Now can we get our young women and men out of harm’s way?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:18 pmSMOKE SCREEN:
Bush needs out. He MUST get out to save the Army. Now, instead of Bush “cutting and running”, he’ll just point to this report (whose conclusions were pre-determined) and say “i need to follow this”.
It’s his cover for doing what the Dems have wanted to do.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmBut…..but….but….Mission Acomm……. Was I lied to?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmLooks like Operation Iraqi Liberation isn’t going as well as PNAC wanted it to.
Next time they should hire Haliburton to give out bushles of flowers and boxes of candy to be thrown to our troops before we invade.
Maybe next time we won’t let priceless historical relics be stolen and destroyed in lew of protecting the oil fields.
Maybe next time PNAC can make sure that we send enough troops to do the job.
Next time they can hire a sober person or at least a drunk who has gone through a tweleve step program.
Maybe next time we will get all of our major allies, including France, to get behind a big freedom march across the Middle East.
Maybe next time PNAC will make sure that the armor on the military vehicles is up to snuff.
Next time PNAC will think to spread the contracts for reconstruction around instead of giving them all to Haliburton, KBR and Bechtel.
Maybe not.
Maybe there should be another underfunded, underman, per-emptive war on a soveriegn nation.
Maybe George W. Bush was the wrong puppet.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmIraqis will ‘Tolerate’ Another ‘Level Of Violence’
October 12th, 2006 at 5:20 pmYeh, let’s vote, and then be told a few days later that we (not me) are voting for incompetent lying idiots, when it is safe for those idiots to be unmasked. Could they have picked a worse time to release it? People are going to be like smacking themselves in the forehead, thinking, your kiddin me??? Ive been being jerked around this long only to find out when I have no more options to do anything about it for two more years.
Un-F—King real.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:21 pmof course that should be “shouldn’t be another war”
October 12th, 2006 at 5:22 pm“Baker Cooks Up New Recipe”
Care for some juice with your crow sandwich Mr. President?
I thought Preznit was the decider?
Yet again Daddies friends bail out Poor George.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pmNow, you tell me how this fits with Bush announcing yesterday that troops will be in Iraq until 2010.
I thought that was for “future presidents to decide”
October 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pmOh yeah, Murtha’s plan.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:30 pmI don’t think that the statement they like to trumpet now and again that time will show that bushie will be considered a great president. Lots of luck with that one. glug…glug….glug…
October 12th, 2006 at 5:34 pmdlet,
Maybe in a Vlad the Impaler kind of way.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:36 pmWell, chalk it up to lessons learned. The war with IRAN will go a lot smother. At least the MSM news (commercials) for war with Iran will say something like that.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:37 pmUK army chief calls for Iraq withdrawal
Press Association
Thursday October 12, 2006
Guardian Unlimited
The head of the British army tonight called for troops to be withdrawn from Iraq “soon”.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:38 pmGeneral Sir Richard Dannatt told the Daily Mail that Britain’s presence in the country was “exacerbating” security problems.
#2 “Oh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind.”
Dreamer!
DUHbya can’t change his mind because he doesn’t have one. Turdblossom and Cheney may change their mind but only if they believed at first that the commission would listen to them. They will still pull the Puppet King’s strings and Queen George the Dumb will issue a sighing statement saying the commission is just playing party politics and they really want him to “Persevere the Progression.”
October 12th, 2006 at 5:39 pmBUSH WILL START TO PULL OUT BEFORE ELECTION AS A VOTE WINNER
October 12th, 2006 at 5:39 pmYou make me sick. Lets celebrate a report that says we should not have Victory in Iraq.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:41 pmDo most of you believe this great country of our is not capable of Victory?
Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
There is no way we will redeploy. How does that help the Iraqi’s?
Are you in a big mess of your own making? Is your last name Bush? Do you need a fixer? Then it must be time to call in James Baker. Baker has been the Bush consiglieri for the past 40 years – he’s the Tom Hagen of Texas. So why would I believe a word he says? He’s just earning his paycheck from the Family.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:43 pmSo some people were commissioned to come up with new policy on Iraq. So they are telling the executive branch how to do their job. Lord knows the executive needs this, but I don’t see it being welcomed with flowers, hugs and kisses.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:44 pmYes, redeploy, except not to Iran or North Korea, dumbf**kwadboy!
October 12th, 2006 at 5:50 pm‘he “supported the idea†of the so-called Iraq Study Group and that he “looks forward to listening†to the commission’s recommendations.’
October 12th, 2006 at 5:51 pmUntil they told him something he didn’t want to hear.
Rove will now smear these folks as traitors and cowards.
Stevey -
October 12th, 2006 at 5:53 pmPlease provide all us here with your definition of Victory for “this great country”. Specifics please, and a rational explanation of how to achieve it would be nice.
Might even land you a job in the Pentagon or White House!
31 – Well genius, pick up a gun and help out!
October 12th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI see Steve and his black and white strawman have chosen to grace us with their pathetic attempt at playing “shame on you guys” Nobody’s buying it Steve – go back to your radio. W is an idiot and a failure – wouldn’t matter which party he belonged to – he’d still be one. Everyone who bought his snake oil re: WoT, etc., is a dupe and a rube, and this group’s report is the long overdue proof.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:55 pm#31: this great country definely Victory in the meanless insane war, but with some prices.
- More than 2000 American deaths
- More than 660,000 Iraqis deaths (large innocent ppl)
- Another Terrible Torture Bills
- Another Whitetap Bills against all citizens.
- Bush to be the first emperor , he will lead you to VICTORY.
I support for another plan to VICTORY – NO BUSH, NO INSANE REPUGS.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:55 pm“Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?”
You can if you like, but that’s not my plan. I’d prefer if we went after the people who actually attacked us on 9/11. Hint: They’re not in Iraq.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:57 pmOnce again, Poppy and his buddies rush in to save Little Boots’ ass. Let’s see if Bushie is man enough to admit he f**ked up again and let them get him out of the quagmire.
Did anyone else notice that this is basically the plan that Murtha has been pushing for months now? Will he get any credit? Because you know, Democrats have no plans, no ideas……
October 12th, 2006 at 5:58 pmHey Steve, since you are willing for murder to continue in your name, and for the lives of young americans to be lost as a result of a mistake – just so that you can fill the void of your empty and pathetic life with a meaningless “victory” – then immediately enlist in the military and request a front-line position in Iraq.
Otherwise, you won’t be just a moronic fool, but you will be a honorless coward as well. I already know that you are both and I’m sorry that I have to expose the farce that you are to the folks here.
May peace be with us all.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:58 pm“Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?â€
How bad could 72 virgins be?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:59 pmSteve, dude, the Iraqis want us to get the h*ll out of their country – they don’t want our brand of “help” which has led to the slaughter of some 600,000 innocents.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:00 pmYou want a real answer?
October 12th, 2006 at 6:00 pmHow about placing more troops in country to close the borders to eliminate the flow of insurgents.
How about bombing ANY country giving support or comfort to our enemys.
Eliminate all militia’s and give the growing Iraqi Army a chance to get a foothold.
Take the gloves off and treat this like a war and not a police action.
We have the ability to get the job done but we are trying to fight a PC war.
How bad could 72 virgins be?
Comment by ForTruth
I wouldn’t say bad. Just inexperienced.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:02 pm#31: You should be asking these questions of James Baker and the rest of the commission. We are not ruling out victory, the commission said it.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmNow, you tell me how this fits with Bush announcing yesterday that troops will be in Iraq until 2010.
I thought that was for “future presidents to decideâ€
Comment by Spudge_Boy
It fits nicely…..the twit will continue to stay the course as the “2010 decision†indicates and just hand the “study group†report over to the future president to decide…..nothing changes…..everything between now and then is just posturing. Outside of maybe hoping to achieve his goal of becoming only the 2nd to order a nuke drop, he’s just gearing for the X-president’s club……and hopefully, he can be impeached into that club next year….
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmEliminate all militia’s and give the growing Iraqi Army a chance to get a foothold.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmBWAHAHAH!
The army is heavily infiltrated by the militias!
Oh, by the way, the guys who run the militias are also running the puppet government.
Let’s just nuke the entire country and call it done, huh?
Humanist that shows how little of me you know. I have served my country I did so for 8 years…. 8 years longer than i’m sure your pathetic ass has. I am however now above the age to reenlist however I have a son who is 18 and if he chooses to enlist he has my full support. I’m sure you would sheppard your son off to Canada….. that is if you had what it takes to make a SON.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmSo John Kerry was right to ask who the last man will be to die for a lie… amazing how his question also applied to Iraq… that man was a genius… years ahead of his time…
Can we turn BushCo over to the World Court NOW?
They need to stand trial for war crimes, every single stinking greedy evil one of them!
October 12th, 2006 at 6:06 pm#2 “Oh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind.â€
Good, I hope this one works better for him!
#31 “Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?”
Yes, it’s just that black and white. It’s either total victory or the death of us all.
Cutting your losses and changing the game plan for the battle doesn’t necessarily mean a losing the whole “war on terra.”
October 12th, 2006 at 6:07 pmAccording to Dubya, you have to sway Laura Bush and his dog Barney before he’ll withdraw troops from Iraq. What congress should have done was include Laura Bush and Barney in that commission.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:07 pmSo, Steve thinks we should stay the course. Sounds like a plan!
October 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pmYou make me sick. Lets celebrate a report that says we should not have Victory in Iraq.
Do most of you believe this great country of our is not capable of Victory?
Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
There is no way we will redeploy. How does that help the Iraqi’s?
Comment by Steve — October 12, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
Steve, the report is not saying we “should not” have victory. It is saying that we “cannot” have victory. Why? Because Bush and Co. have screwed things up so badly there already. So give James Baker a call and tell him that he makes you sick too. And as for that “take a number to have our throats slit”, I think you need to lay off the crack pipe there buddy. You sound like a sniveling little coward afraid of his shadow.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pmooh – see steve – you’re starting to get your feelings hurt, like i told you you would, but you wouldn’t listen – you wouldn’t go join your proper congregation elsewhere. had to stay here, had to keep asking for it (for christ’s sake, Exley’s even smart enough to choose his battles wisely here) now you’ve opened youself up to just about anything. luck for you this isn’t a right wing outfit, or someone would publish your home address and phone # by tomorrow morning and you’d have a bunch of wackos littering your lawn for breakfast. quit while you’re not way behind. seek out those of your own kind and enjoy the companionship and whatnot.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pm#50-Steve,
Actually, your 8 years is considerably less service than what my “pathetic ass” has done. So, if your service is less than mine, and in your eyes my level of service makes me a “pathetic ass”, then what does that say for you?
So, you not only prove beyond a doubt that you are a moronic idiot, but you show that your cowardice seems to be following your bloodline. I have no further words for you.
May peace be with us all.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pm#52 USAF vet – thank you.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pmHow about placing more troops in country to close the borders to eliminate the flow of insurgents.
Comment by Steve — October 12, 2006 @ 6:00 pm
Steve, closing the borders won’t do it, because the insurgents are 99% Iraqis, and they already happen to be in their own country. So maybe we should expel the 70% of Iraqis who want us out before closing the borders.
Moron.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:12 pmYou make me sick. Lets celebrate a report that says we should not have Victory in Iraq.
Apparently, it says victory at the current definition is not attainable. It doesn’t say we “should not have” victory.
What is victory? What is the plan? What is the exit strategy? Victory must be measured against something.
Do most of you believe this great country of our is not capable of Victory?
See above. Victory is determined based on whether or not objectives are achieved. Where there are no objectives, or the objectives are not attainable by force, then there can be no victory.
The original objective, I think, was to remove Hussein from power. By that measure, we achieved our victory long ago. The current objective is… what?
Here’s a good example of a victory statement: It is an objective to remove the current US regime from power. Stage one in that objective is to prevent the regime from doing further damage. Victory in that will be achieved next month by taking control away from Republicans for at least one branch of government.
Objective-strategy-tactics-metrics.
Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
You do like your strawmen. Have you stopped beating your kids?
Is there some reason that you assume that people who recognize the folly of this botched war somehow do not share your goal of reducing the threat of terrorism? Is it your way or the highway? Well hell, why are we wasting time and US lives, then, when we could just drop a few nukes and the problem would be gone? Or, perhaps there is a continuum of possible approaches ranging from nukes on one end to capitulation on the other end? Perhaps a policy that includes targeted military action, agressive containment, and diplomacy is better than a badly planned occupy-subjugate-and-destroy approach? Or is it that anyone who does not agree with your narrow view is somehow a coward, non-patriot, or traitor?
We should be going after radical terrorists wherever they are. If they are being sheltered by a government, we have the right to take action to eliminate the threat, even to the point of invasive military action. Oddly, this was not the case with Iraq. Iraq was very well contained and did not pose any immediate threat to the US, had no connection to Al Queda, and had no WMD. Face the truth.
There is no way we will redeploy.
Of course we will. The question is when.
How does that help the Iraqi’s?
How has it helped the Iraqis for us to stay this long? Please, serious answers only.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:12 pm#52 – Good man.
#50 – Bit of a prick.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:14 pmSteve, there was never a declaration of war. There were never clear goals or objectives other than toppling Saddam. It was very short sided and because of these missteps we have lost thousands of lives, destroyed untold more, saddled the next generations with debt that hasn’t been talked about all for what, an abstract, ill concieved war on terror.
I will not sit by while more money is thrown at this and more lives are lost. The only way to come close to your pipe dream would be to initiate the draft and Mr. Mandate has already spent his political capital. There is no way the American public would go along with that.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:15 pm#2 “Oh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind.â€
I hope so, the mind he has now doesn’t work real well….
#50. I served as well, and I can say your statement toward humanist is that of an idiot.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:15 pmThis administration started the war in Iraq on a pack of lies, while letting the real terrorists and Bin Laudin go. They are making peace overtures to the Taliban now.
Iraq was never about terrorists Moron.
There is an insurgency and a civil war going on there because of the idiocy of the current administration.
Yes, Steve, many of us served as well.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI logged 2 years 8 months of a 3 year enlistment (early out for going to Nam)
Many of us have seen and been in combat. This makes us weary/wary of the belligerent bluster of your rant.
I hope your son has the nerve to tell you to shove it if you tell him to enlist.
The fact that you spent eight years, then left shows me you didn’t have the smarts to get out sooner, nor the discipline to stay a lifer.
Take your crap elsewhere, or quit whining when we nail your proverbial ass to the wall.
2010 isnt that far away. and the total number of US dead will still be under 5000.
Iran will start by 2007 so its not that big a deal to keep troops in Iraq
with 300 million people , this country has a large supply of 20 year old soldiers. lets use them.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:18 pmFolks, I think we are witnessing Steve undergoing a full blown cognitive meltdown.
As for Bush following the advice of this commission, forget it. Look at all the people who have tried to persuade him to get rid of Rumsfeld, apparently including his chief of staff and his wife. But if there is one thing Bush knows how to do, it is dig in his heels. There is no way this guy will change course until he is forced to by others. Indeed, I think his response will be to lash out at his critics in the worst possible way, perhaps by launching an attack against Iran.
Bush believes he talks to God, and that he has a destiny to fulfill. This guy is now the most dangerous person on earth, and I wouldn’t put it past him to drop a nuclear bomb to fulfill his imagined destiny.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:19 pmsteve, son you are a really bad joke – you fascist.
humanist lives in tierra del fuego – or some such.
please ENCOURAGE your son to enlist. The more of you
cultist joint the less chance for a draft.
oh – sorry – you only want other’s kids to die.
ou cannot make an army comprised of 3 groups who
have centuries old hatred and distrus for each other.
the policy if Iraq has failed because we are not
doing for belevolent reasons.
get a clue dufus.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:30 pm#66—Folks, I think we are witnessing Steve undergoing a full blown cognitive meltdown.— Realscientist
I suspect Steve has never been in combat. Most vets that see combat end up hating violence. Personally, I can’t even watch a war movie. If one is on at home, I walk outside. I don’t even hunt any more or even own a gun.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:31 pm#67: I believe in DUFUS have nothing interesting to Bush.Co
October 12th, 2006 at 6:36 pm[...] Report: Iraq Study Group Will Rule Out Victory In Iraq, Propose Redeployment [...]
October 12th, 2006 at 6:36 pmSteve
We can’t even secure our borders, how many troops can we deploy when pussies like you who talk the talk, won’t even join up to walk the walk? If every American citizen was patrolling the border it wouldn’t stop the violence, the violence is coming from within, HOW FRIGGEN STUPID ARE YOU? Turn off Fux news, Rush, Coulter etc. and wake up to reality. It’s not pretty, but we don’t have to live behind lie after lie.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:43 pm“Redeploy Stay the course!”….new chimp slogan.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:50 pmI’d love to be in the room when Bush actually gets the formal copy of the report. I can just hear the faux Texan, poseur cowpoke screaming…
October 12th, 2006 at 6:54 pm“It’s just a goddamn piece of paper”
So much subject material so little time.
While Al Qiada wasn’t in Iraq to start with there is no denying they are there now so if we follow the logic of going after them where ever they are it kind of nice to get them to come to you and not to have to hunt them.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:54 pmSo if we Redeploy and focus on going after terrorist where do you fools think we will find them?
We leave and a huge vaccum takes place and attracks even more.
Maybe that is the plan let them come and then nuke the whole place.
Gorn what have we done for the Iraqi’s? Please tell me you read news more then just the liberal Blathering that says everything is bad in Iraq. Truth is outside of Baghdad life isn’t so bad.
Women now have freedoms they didn’t before.(How the hell did we let that happen)
12 million Got out to VOTE
The Iraqi economy is picking up and many more positive things…… do a little reading and you might be suprised…. but then again that might conflict with your belief so we can’t have that.
Humanist you said you served but not where. Dog Catcher in Boston?
Hey Steve, it’s sad to see your eight years of service come to this…
The few, the proud…
October 12th, 2006 at 6:57 pmHad they admitted this sooner, Foleygate wouldn’t have smeared the GOP like it continues to do. Now troop withdrawl looks like mollifying critics. Friggin’ hypocritical GOP.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:58 pm#74 – Actually, I heard that women are slightly more repressed now than they were before.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:59 pmIf they had admitted this sooner, Foleygate wouldn’t have smeared the GOP like it continues to do. Now troop withdrawl looks like mollifying critics. Friggin’ hypocritical GOP.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:00 pmWOO-HOO!!! Steve gets the sucker for punishment award….a little energizer bunny, cause he just keeps coming back fo more……
October 12th, 2006 at 7:00 pmMy ex- brother-in-law has that 1000 mile stare from Nam. Was shot 3 times. Had to fake dead while being jumped on (after being shot in the back).
Steve, you really have no idea how bad it can be.
Don’t judge, please.
Everyone is saying, “Get the Heck out of there.”
October 12th, 2006 at 7:02 pmI’d like to know why you feel that all of these experts and former Generals AND military are wrong, and you are right.
That’s a shame, Steve. I was trying to send you a picture of a little brown child pissing on a grunt wielding a machine gun. I know it must be a disappointment to miss that; I’ll do my best to find another way.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:03 pmSteve, do you really think the death squads murdering hundreds of Iraqis a week are AlQaeda? Evidence suggests not.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:03 pmWe leave and the Iraqi people will root them out if they want them out.
Pretty simple. They all have guns. They know how to use them.
By the by, how’s that Hezbollah recruiting station doing in Basra? From what I hear it’s gangbusters! Women sure have a lot of rights under the Sharia being imposed in the Southern provinces.
Oh, by the way, most of those who vote, vote for whomever their clan/tribal leaders tell them to. That’s the way the society works.
But you wouldn’t know much about that.
How many hours of electicity does Basra get?
The only place the economy is doing anything is in the Kurdish zone.
Oh god no…
October 12th, 2006 at 7:05 pmWhat branch of service were you in Steve, what rank? Just curious and all.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:06 pmSuch a blanket statement “Everyone is Saying”
If we get the heck out then what? Please I need to know. I won’t sleep nights not knowing what next.
Tom, the thing is all of you liberals are so full of hot air that when piled up on my back you just don’t weigh that much :)
October 12th, 2006 at 7:06 pmThe sad thing is that Emperor Bush “knew” that he had to invade Iraq. God told him so. Doesn’t this alone make Bush a potential mental patient?
Thinking back 30 or so years to Tricky Dick… pressure from We The People reminded those in Congress that NO ONE is above the law… and Nixon left in disgrace.
Anyone remember what laws it was that Dick broke? Sure, breaking and entering were important, but they weren’t the important part of the story. Give up? It was WIRETAPPING.
Fast forward 30 or so years… and lookee here… what do we have?… yet another Republican Fool who thinks he’s above and beyond the law!
Write/Call/FAX your CongressCritters! NO ONE is above the law!!! This includes Emperor Bush and his merry band of henchmen.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:08 pmI was US Navy ET2 That stands for Electronics Technician E-5 pay grade.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:11 pmI was stationed in San Diego and was deployed in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Iran after the Korean Airliner was shot down. I joined during the Iran Hostage Crisis.
“Truth is outside of Baghdad life isn’t so bad.” — Steve
Boy are you misinformed, I have family in Iraq now. It is real bad, people are murdered by death squads daily. Death squads run by the current Iraqi government.
The Suni and Shiite are at each other’s throats and both are attacking or men and women over there.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:12 pmIt is a civil war, that Bush and Dumbsfeld have created with their inept handling of a war we should have never started.
Perhaps they’ll send us flowers when we pull out.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:12 pmMaybe Steve got “paged” by the Emperor Himself?
I know the military messes with people. But this guy has been particularly messed with.
Sad to see. Really sad.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:14 pmSteve #74 – still waiting to hear your plan. Clearly state an objective and a measurement of victory. Your assumptions about what I do and do not read, and whether my sources are “liberal” or otherwise, are devoid of value and meaning.
It’s very simple. Victory cannot be achieved unless we know what victory means. If it means wiping every Islamic extremest off the earth, you better also offer a way to measure that. The current indicators are that we are creating them faster than we can kill them, so I’d like to see a plan for how this is to be achieved. The plan should also make clear how many Americans, allies, and innocents will need to be sacrificed to achieve it, and the cost from our collective treasuries that will be required.
I can support war when there is clear purpose that serves the interests of American and human ideals, but I want to see an objective and an achievable plan. Is that too much to ask, or do we just have to drink the koolaid and follow the bumbling halfwit cowboy merrily into the abyss?
By the way, the fact that he believes he is doing God’s work and that he is following the path to end-of-days really doesn’t fill me with confidence. I don’t believe in any of that tripe, so if he wants my support, I want answers derived from the perspective of reality.
Now, try to produce a coherent answer without resorting to red herrings about “you libruls”.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:15 pmIs that the best you can do JC? I have seen some of your other post and that was weak by comparison.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:15 pm#74:
While ALQiada wasn’t in Iraq, following your LOGIC we should destroy the country to call AlQiada come to play with us? Sorry, I can’t understand your INSANE IDEA! Actually NIE reports said Iraq war recuirt more AlQiada sympathizers.
Bush really made a huge vaccum in Iraq when attack Sadam without post-war plan. You should not ask us “What have we done for the Iraqi’s?”Ask Iraqis, Ops they said “Get out”. Truth is outside of Baghdad life isn’t so bad compare with pre-war, compare with our country???
Again compare with pre-war??
Look the facts to not support for another INSANE, NO_PLAN, MEANLESS, OIL WARS.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:18 pmSteve: “Eliminate all militia’s and give the growing Iraqi Army a chance to get a foothold.”
Eliminate all militias???!!! I guess, to some people sitting behind their trusty keyboards, that sounds like an easy thing to do. Steve, our own National Intelligence Estimate along with Jimma Baker doesn’t agree with you. You’re sitting there complaining about liberals. Man, wise up. Jimma Baker isn’t a liberal.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:19 pmI was US Navy ET2 That stands for Electronics Technician E-5 pay grade.
I was stationed in San Diego and was deployed in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Iran after the Korean Airliner was shot down. I joined during the Iran Hostage Crisis. Comment by Steve
Ahh, just as I thought, never saw a day of real combat, ever. Never saw one of your buddies get blown away next to you. Never actually had to fire your weapon back at an enemy firing at you.
Never actually had to kill anyone.
Of course you are all for more killing for Bush’s lies….. Moron.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:22 pmSteve #88
Hey, Steve, thanks for your service to our country. Regardless of whether or not you saw battle, the service is appreciated.
On the other hand, service by itself does not make your opinion on Iraq either right or wrong.
Many former generals are on record against this war. Balancing that is the preponderance of chicken hawks in the administration who have never served at all, or have done so only by the barest definition. I’m not sure if any of them served in battle, but none that I know of.
You have my respect for serving, but your politics are very ill informed. Every time you shout “liberal” you show your ignorance. Rush Limbaugh labels are not what counts in the real world.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:23 pmsounds like murtha’s plan.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:24 pmSo, “W” will be bailed out one more time. Daddy to the rescue. Jim will lead the way. They apparently got to stuff to come out smellin like a rose and slippin jail just like Pinochet. They own your Supreme Court. Protected from prosecution by his own laws. All the while he spys on you too make sure you don’t object. You are likely a criminal, you know.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:28 pmSteve, I respect your service, but man, you need to do better research before pummeling us with a fecal avalanche of fictional “factoids”. Peace.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:31 pmSteve: “So if we Redeploy and focus on going after terrorist where do you fools think we will find them?”
Steve, for a small fraction of the money we’re spending on Iraq, we could outfit every port in America with nuclear and biological screening devices, outfit every commercial airliner with anti-missle technology, shore up the defenses of every chemical and nuclear plant in America, strengthen cock-pit doors in every airliner, pay for armed air marshals on every flight, train and hire thousands of Arabic language translators and still have enough to send 10,000 special forces to Afganistan to finish the job routing those bastards out of the mountains. You’ve been lied to, manipulated and scared stupid. Time to wise up.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:31 pm“Mission Demolished”
Another RW fantasy that we can kill our way to righteousness. Too bad the current chickenhawks in power avoided their opportunity to serve when they had the chance back in the 60’s, the first hand horror of that experience might have served them well.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:31 pmGorn
October 12th, 2006 at 7:32 pmI agree that we need something that defines victory.
Victory should be to provide for the safety of our citizens and those of our Allies.
This war is not a conventional type war where you can draw up on a map and say we need to attack this spot and hold it. Our Enemy isn’t really a government. Iran and NK are just being led by insane dictators (Liberal Note: Bush is an insane dictator) and given the choice I think all humans yearn to be free.
This isn’t something we can win in a few months and many other countries are to blame for this haterd that is aimed at us. Saudi Arabia and many others. Its easy to make someone else out to be the bad guy and aim peoples hate there when you wish to stay in power and can’t have that hate pointed your way.
This is a much more complicated problem then I have all the answers too but I do think we need to Invest in Coal to Liquid, Ethanol and other alternatives so we have some leverage with this other Regimes.
When we become dependent of oil they will become meaningless in the world unless they start changing thier cultures.
While i don’t agree with every step of how we have handled this war I think it goes a lot farther then doing nothing.
And I quote the wonderful Decider:
“Leaving Iraq will be a decision for the next President.”
October 12th, 2006 at 7:32 pmSteve,
The feeling is mutual.
Not sure that “We told you so” is considered celebrating, but okay, ‘Lets” You bring the beer.
Not in Iraq. Neither did George H W Bush or Dick Cheney at the end of Operation Desert Storm. Are you old enough to remember that? I do, I was in it and I know why we left, without going into Bahgdad.
Go ahead, but us progressives will be fighting the war on terror, while you are joining the crack suicide squad.
That’s what you think.
The Global War on Terror is about protecting Americans, not freeing Iraqis. They got their own problems that THEY need to sort out.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:36 pmThis isn’t something we can win in a few months and many other countries are to blame for this haterd that is aimed at us. Saudi Arabia and many others. Its easy to make someone else out to be the bad guy and aim peoples hate there when you wish to stay in power and can’t have that hate pointed your way…
When we become dependent of oil they will become meaningless in the world unless they start changing thier cultures.
Steve, the more you ’splain, the worse you sound. How are Many Other Countries to blame (Israel>?) How is Saudi Arabia to blame for other people hating us. Maybe our policies have something to do with it.?
October 12th, 2006 at 7:38 pmWe are already “dependent” of oil>? BTW> don’t hold your breath on “they start changing their cultures.
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzz. Compose yourself. Then compose your thoughts. Thanks
Steve, watch out for btruthmon. He’s our CIA mole.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:39 pmAnd so it’s rep Wolf, R,va that proposed this. I recollect the “real represenative of the PEOPLE” John Murtha, D, PA had this idea long before jimmy baker and daddy. Don’t believe anything out of this administration. And, what will Condi’s role be? Zip!
October 12th, 2006 at 7:41 pmthat photo is classic… you can almost imagine Baker trying to break it to Bush gently, and the president confused and angry…
October 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pmSteve, then explain why we should stay in Iraq if this is how you feel. It is a direct contradiction to what you say here.
We should attack this spot (Iraq) and hold it (occupation).
You can’t have it both ways.
You can’t say we shouldn’t attack a spot and hold it, then support staying in Iraq, because it is a spot we attacked and are holding.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pmDaddy can’t take much more, w.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pmAgain, Steve, for a small fraction of the money we’re spending on Iraq, we could outfit every port in America with nuclear and biological screening devices, outfit every commercial airliner with anti-missle technology, shore up the defenses of every chemical and nuclear plant in America, strengthen cock-pit doors in every airliner, pay for armed air marshals on every flight, train and hire thousands of Arabic language translators and still have enough to send 10,000 special forces to Afganistan to finish the job routing those bastards out of the mountains. You’ve been lied to, manipulated and scared stupid. Time to wise up.
As the Spudge boy said, the war on terror is about protecting us from terror. Don’t you think the things listed above would do more to protect Americans than spending billions a week in Iraq?
October 12th, 2006 at 7:43 pm107—”This war is not a conventional type war where you can draw up on a map and say we need to attack this spot and hold it.” –Steve
This is where you are confusing the Iraq War with the war on terrorism.
The people behind 9/11 were not in Iraq. There were no wmds in iraq. It was all started on a bunch of lies.
The real war on Alqueda and the taliban that was supporting them, they were in Iraq, right? NO
Also, fighting terrorists by invading a country does not work. This is where police work and special forces work best. Catch them, arrest them, or send special ops in to take them out. That works, you just don’t always hear about those success stories.
Its good you served, but you need to educate yourself on what is really happening. It is not broadcasted on Faux news.
Google PNAC bud, see what is actually behind todays situation.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:46 pm#107 Steve
Victory should be to provide for the safety of our citizens and those of our Allies.
I agree. I suspect this is a goal that everyone here would share. However, it is way too vague to be a war objective. The problem is that the people in charge have set up this notion of a non-conventional war (which has truth to it) as a facade to basically do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want. They are working to achieve a pre-determined set of pipe dreams (an unholy alliance of neocon goals to redesign the world, and religio-nut dreams to end the world). There is no other explanation for the provocative and wild rhetoric, or for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. If the real issue was routing out terrorists, we would have gone full bore into Afghanistan and used the worldwide support we had to kick major ass. Instead, we squandered it all on the neocon dream in Iraq.
Now, this is flat-out truth, waiting out there to be discovered by those with eyes to see.
Regarding a valuable set of meaningful and achievable anti-terrorism defense objectives, I think bluedog did a great job summarizing thus:
This would not eliminate terrorism, but it would make it a damn sight harder to implement, would add a level of security to our daily lives, would not eliminate our hard-fought freedoms, and would not create worldwide enemies and condemnation. Add into this mix the willingness to take targeted military action for punitive, deterrent, and eradication purposes, and some serious attention to the vacuum of worldwide diplomacy, and now you’ve got something the majority of Americans would support.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:49 pmOh I don’t know maybe setting up schools that teach hate America on a daily basis for years on end might shape someones opinion.
I’m sure if we set up schools here in America that taught our kids that all the worlds problems were due to the Blolivians you would send your kids there.
Hell no that would not be tolerated in our society the only thing we can talk bad about in our schools is how America is responsible for all the worlds problems. What Country do we live in?
b(stir the pot)truthful are you trying to convert me to a Christian?
October 12th, 2006 at 7:51 pmIs this the october surprise? The “peace president”? Circle the wagons. W’s goin for broke. Gas prices, stock market , absent foley, kim jung il’’s gifts. May not look so good for stiffled, wimped democrats.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:51 pmStarted a insane war, it is hard to make figure out defines of victory; you should define your scopes before do something.
This war is not a conventional type war because it follow your INSANE LOGIC. This war called fantatic WMD war. This war called Bush Oil Co. Our enemies is oil-rich countries who refused to sell for us with low price.
You already did something. You supported to kill 660,000 Iraqis instead of start to invest in coal to liquid, ethanol and other alternatives. Poor for those deaths because Steve figured out this too late.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:57 pmBluedog what about our borders? What about all the illegals already here?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:01 pmWhat about those who live amongst us now who would do us harm? You can spend all you want and the terrorist will adjust.
I just happen to think spending to change the culture that creates them is a good plan. Without hope what do these people look forward to? They are lied to about what happens when they die in battle or blow themselves up.
This culture that breeds these soulless individuals is the real threat. If it is not dealt with you are fooling yourself that we can just pull up the drawbridge and be safe.
Electronics Technician E-5 pay grade
Also known as: geek in front of a computer, never saw combat, probably 5 pay grade means way more money than we pay the men and women who have actually put their lives on the line in this misbegotten, illegal war.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:03 pmWow, Steve just tied illegal immagrants to terrorists!
Crazy man.
The terrorists are way smarter than that. They come here legally on work or school visas. They act like us. They blend in. They are smart and educated. They aren’t out picking strawberries.
Moron.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:06 pmYanghole You buy that crap about 660,000 dead Iraqis? It was a stinking poll of about 12000 households and the that was projected onto the millions of Iraqis. That is called Science?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:07 pmBesides the reports blames 31% of that on The Coalition Forces.
Hmmmm who else could be killing Iraqis? Insurgents? Iraqis themselves.
Of that 31% I’m guessing about 30.999 % were insurgents. Sounds like progress to me.
So Spudge_Girl you like having hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our midst? Sounds safe and secure to me.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:10 pmWhere do you get that from anything I have said you crazy bastard?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:11 pmYou are kidding….. right?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:14 pmNo, where did I say? Point it out. Let’s see it.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:15 pmSteve, You are a typical dittohead. You believe (and repeat) every Republican catch phrase, buzzword, and talking point. WAKE UP and open your eyes to what’s really happening in Iraq and the rest of the civilized world. We are NOT going to have “victory” because there is NO reasonable definition of “victory” coming from our “leader”. We are INCREASING the terrorists rolls on a daily basis because of our inane policies toward the Muslim areas of the world. We are led by an arrogant idiot that refuses to change his course even in the face of incontrivertable evicdence that the “course” is fatally wrong. George Bush is destroying the America I’ve known and loved for more than 50 years (including my time in the US Navy during the Vietnam “war”). I want a government that will lead us to fight for real freedom, and real independence and I’m SICK and TIRED of hearing how people who don’t agree with Bush “love terrorists” and “hate America”. btw…thanks to all of you guys and girls out there who care enough about what is happening to speak out.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:15 pmBush will dismiss the report as “not credible.”
October 12th, 2006 at 8:18 pmLast night Steve wrote that what we call torture he calls college frat initiation. Someone replied asking if he was a sadomasochist. I don’t know about sado, but judging from the beating he is taking here Steve sure is a masochist
October 12th, 2006 at 8:20 pmThat is where I tied it together.
Did you see this story 2 weeks ago?
The terrorist was last seen in Mexico, where, on Nov. 1, 2004, he allegedly hijacked a Piper PA Pawnee cropduster from Ejido Queretaro near Mexicali to transport a nuclear weapon and nuclear equipment into the U.S., according to Paul Williams, a former FBI consultant and author of “The Dunces of Doomsday.”
“He is an American and a friend of Muhammad Atta, who led 9/11 attacks five years ago,” said Dawood. “We call him ‘Jaffer al Tayyar’ (Jafer the Pilot); he is very brave and intelligent. (President) Bush is aware that brother Adnan has smuggled deadly materials inside America from the Mexican border. Bush is silent about him, because he doesn’t want to panic his people. Sheik Osama bin Laden has completed his cycle of warnings. You know, he is man of his words, he is not a politician; he always does what he says. If he said it many times that Americans will see new attacks, they will definitely see new attacks. He is a real mujahid. Americans will not win this war, which they have started against Muslims. Americans are the biggest supporters of the biggest terrorist in the world, which is Israel.”
None of the things bluedog laid out would prevent this.
Justthetruth do you really think we are doing things the same way as we did on day one in Iraq? Do you not think our commanders have made many adjustments? This stay the course label is bogus. We are always adapting and trying new things….. only a complete idiot revists failure.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:23 pmRealScientist wanna suck my thumb? hmmm left or right? LOL
October 12th, 2006 at 8:24 pmBush won’t read the report (well, he never reads anything, so what I mean is that he won’t bother to pretend to read the report). Tony Snow will say that the report is working its way towards the President’s desk. Tony will explain that it takes time for this kind of report to work its way through “channels”. Either the report will simply never arrive and a new report will be commissioned (from the “right” people), or it will be “edited” on its way up the chain so that by the time it reaches Bush it will say just what Bush wants to hear. Mark my words, this is exactly what they did with Abu Ghraib.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:25 pmI’m waiting for Steve to show us where I said that I like “having hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our midst?”
Besides wouldn’t that number be 11 million undocumented people.
I am no more scare of an undocumented person than I am documented ones. Take a trip through South Central Los Angeles some day and you will know just what I mean.
If the American leaders from Federal down to City can’t stop street gangs in our country, how can we expect for them to stop all the terrorists in another country.
And my dad was a LA Sherriff for 36 years, just ask him about the gang problems in the US.
Hello strawman. *BOOOOOM* “Oh crap strawman is dead again.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:26 pmI just happen to think spending to change the culture that creates them is a good plan. Without hope what do these people look forward to? They are lied to about what happens when they die in battle or blow themselves up. This culture that breeds these soulless individuals is the real threat.
Yes. That culture cannot be changed by house to house battle. Such tactics only cause the culture to grow. It’s like fighting cancer by opening the body up on the table for four years, cutting out one cell at a time. By the time you have “victory”, the body has been dead for two years and is completely consumed with the cancer you were trying to remove. You’d better find a way to attack the systemic cause.
So, you’ve identified the need. It’s your solution that is totally wacked.
Spending money to deal with the systemic problem basically amounts to a great deal of intelligence work combined with targeted military action. It should be carried out in areas that are breeding grounds for terrorism. Your solution is to continue mired in a civil war in a country that was not a breeding ground for terrorism.
And no, spudge_boy said nothing to suggest that he liked the US to be filled with undocumented illegal immigrants. I’m trying my best to give you benefit of the doubt, but you need to stop spinning nonsense and pay attention to what people are really saying.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:26 pmWanna provide a link to your source their Stevey?
Who wants to bet on Fox News, Washington Times or The National Review?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:28 pmWell maybe if your Dad was a good sherriff we wouldn’t have those gangs huh?
How many people died under his administration?
Yes I’m just being an ass but If you look past the sarcasm you might see my point.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:29 pmThere is hell and then there is the worse place the bushs and bakers are going.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:29 pmWhat Spudge did say was I tied illegal immigration to terrorist. Implying that illegal immigrants were all farm hads picking strawberries. And of the millions of illegals that are here none of them could be terrorist? I was asking if he felt safe having all of those undocumented people in country?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:33 pmSteve #140
“He is an American and a friend of Muhammad Atta, who led 9/11 attacks five years ago,â€
I guess if he’s an American, then he is not an undocumented illegal immigrant, right?
And again, where did spudge say he would like “having hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our midst?â€
October 12th, 2006 at 8:34 pmWe must stay the course my fellow friends. George talks to God, and God is saying to stay the course. No, George Bush is not a mental patient. One poster mentioned this. Ha! Ha! The Devil is corrupting your mind, and our minds. Yes, the cost will be high but we must all collectively pay the high cost.
Eventually, our fabulous congressional representatives WILL pay the ultimate price, too–fallen children. We must realize, though, that the children of our fabulous congressional representatives can’t march off to war until their million dollar trust funds are in order. Some folks just don’t get it! That’s why only .001% of our fabulous congressional representatives have children serving in the military.
They can’t hire some Mickey Mouse lawyer when there’s million dollar trust funds for their children. Selecting $400 an hour lawyers takes time. Lots of time. Lots of time. Lots of time. Luckily, most of us don’t have to worry about million dollar trust funds, so we can send our children off to Iraq. Bless us.
Being rich, powerful, and affluent Washington power brokers has responsibilities. Fabulous million dollar trust funds are important, so sending their children to Iraq is not a top priority. Getting elected is a top priority. Getting money from wealthy lobbyists is a top priority. Sending their children to Iraq is NOT a top priority. Bless them!
Our fabulous president would not lie to us. He is a man of God. Bless him! Stay the course!
John
October 12th, 2006 at 8:34 pmOctober 12th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Steve…”This stay the course label is bogus. We are always adapting and trying new things….. only a complete idiot revists failure. ”
You know, this “Stay The Course” thing originated in the mind of the real complete idiot…GWB. And I must ask you Steve, what is victory to you? How will we know when we’ve achieved it? Do you remember our original goals? To rid Iraq of WMD! Nothing about this war has made sense since day one. No WMDs, the Iraqis did not attack us on 9/11, Iraq was not a harborer of terrorists, and no one knows WHO we are fighting in Iraq from day to day. The whole mess is a quagmire that is pulling the name of our great country down in the eyes of the entire world. Please wake up Steve…please.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:36 pm#151 Best comment yet, Steve. Perfect summary of everything you have upstairs.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:38 pmI didn’t say my dad was THE Sherriff. I said he was a Sherriff.
The problem with gangs cannot be solved at the end of a gun either. It is a social/economic problem. Just like terrorism. Once again, you need to look deeper at problems than “lets kill them” lets put them in jail”
We need solutions.
And while you sit there being an ass, another US soldier probably died because of a failed policy you are trying to prove works.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:39 pmOk maybe it worked this time if not it is from WorldNetDaily
Unlike some I gather news from multiple sources from all kinds of prespectives and then I make up my mind what to think.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:40 pmI am a creature of logic.
Nice to get a good laugh every once in awhile. :)
October 12th, 2006 at 8:41 pmSteve is this or is this not your quote?
Where did I say that you said all illegal immagrants were strawberry pickers.
I didn’t.
I said:
This does not imply that all illegals pick strawberries. What it does say is that terrorists are not out picking strawberries.
Everybody can scroll up and see what was said. Stop trying to change it or its meaning.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:42 pmOk in 15 mins lets all run and turn our TV’s on CNN and see what Glenn Beck has to say tonight :)
October 12th, 2006 at 8:43 pmIf you are with me just say AYE!
steve you start making sense then you are back in your
faux news induced trance.
the 660K figure is estimates to be sure – but it is peer reviewed
October 12th, 2006 at 8:43 pmand scientifically sound. but even if the number is off
you would agree that 30K INNOCENTS died, this according
to our dear leader. I went to a footbal game recently and there
was about 30K people – that is a LOT of people to die for
PNAC dreams. Many thousand of them CHILDREN.
For the grace of God there you go, but can you
imagine for just a second that a foreign power attacks us
because they want regime change? And you find them mangled
dead body of your 18 year old son? then how would you feel?
You just might despise and fight the invaders to the death.
The Iraqis are doing no different than you would.
be honest – quit your blind cultish following of Limbaugh and
the like.
#132 Good try steve, you are pointless expect finger-point me. Again Steve, how many innocent dead Iraqis, you think, because this insane oil war? That is called MURDER?
Oh let tell me, why The Coalition Forces in Iraq and kill those ppl? There were insurgents in Iraq pre-war? There was a civil war where Iraqis kill themselves in Iraq pre-war?
Who made this mess and for what Steve? I think you just anwser youself – it is because we start the oil war without invest in alternatives. You right Steve.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:43 pmWorldNetDaily?
The one I didn’t pick. Somebody should have taken me up on my bet.
WorldNetDaily?!?!?!?!?!
You are joking right? Do you have a Drudge Report to back it up? How about testimony from Anne Coulter and Sean Hannity to top it off.
Stop getting spoon fed bullsh!t.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:44 pmSteve, I will commend you for reading Think Progress and for sharing your ideas…even though they are wrong. I also agree that all of us need to get our news from a variety of sources. I looked over the article you llinked us to in your last post and I couldn’t help but notice the references to OBL. Anyone know what ever happened to him? Stevie….why hasn’t dubya gone after him? Why did we get diverted from the one quest that everyone in the world supported us on and understood…getting Bin Laden? What happened?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:45 pm#155: Let me remind you one of your LOGIC Steve. #74
Destroy Iraq to get ALQiada come to you.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:47 pmOh hell we have been reduced to arguing over symantics.
Ok straight out Is illegals in our country a good thing?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:48 pmDoes it affect our security in any way?
Do you support illegal immigration?
Do you think they should be able to use our government services?
Do you think they should be deported, imprisioned, or given amnesty and citizenship?
Steve #155
Okay, so presuming this source is reliable, what does it prove? That Islamic fanatics are dangerous and would be very happy to kill millions of Americans?
This is not breaking news.
The question on the table is this: what on earth does this have to do with Iraq? How does continuing the war and occupation without plan or purpose reduce, if not increase, the threat that is indicated in the article?
You’re a creature of logic. Please explain how our current course of action is the best option available?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:49 pmThe speculation that a terrorist has hijacked a cropduster in Mexico to transport nuclear equipment into the US is right up there with Hussein’s WMD being hidden in Syria away from American reach. Please. Nuclear weaponry is a little more complicated to transport than that.
Are conservatives now calling for a military invasion on Mexico? Pray tell, will it come before or after Iran?
Shheeess…..
October 12th, 2006 at 8:50 pmGeorge Bush’s ass is more important than 2,700 asses.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:51 pmShould we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
You do like your strawmen. Have you stopped beating your kids?
Comment by gorn
That’s called sarcasm, gorn.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:51 pmI’m disappointed Steve. You’ve dropped the ball by diverting the battle here from Iraq to illegal immigration. I shouldnt be surprised though by a typical neocon tactic. When logic fails, throw out a diversion even if its totally unrelated to facts.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:52 pmfine employers big time for hiring illegals.
problem solved.
they will go back home. Just be prepared for pay more for everything
when the almost slaves are no longer here to do the menial jobs.
I am good with that. No jobs for illegals – no illegals.
everything else you said is a canard – they pay in taxes far more
than they would ever collect in benefits – that is a FACT.
back to thread.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:55 pmyou still have not explained what good it does for our troops
to be killing and being killed. WHAT IS THE END GAME?
If you work on computers – certainly logic does not escape
you. think boolean.
justthetruth
October 12th, 2006 at 8:57 pmI think the Osama is already dead. I’m not sure we have the facts to back that up but I have read alot of reports suggesting he required kidney dialysis. Kind of hard to move around alot when you need that procedure. If he is dead what does that mean to the broader conflict with Terrorists?
I would like confirmation but the question is how do you get it. Most of the stuff coming from Al Qadia has been from others. Osama has been quiet. I’m guessing none of his prerecorded tapes match anything that is happening in the world at the moment. If he is dead and we know it it would explain the lack of resources being used to hunt him. I never for a minute think my government tells me everything…. nor do I require them to. Thier responsibility is to protect our citizens and the freedoms we enjoy.
Lets be clear here, the illegals aren’t the problem as much as al quaeda learning to impersonate Mexicans and speak their language and infiltrate the US boarder and make pretend that they are illegals. that is the terrorist problem on the Mexican boarder….
October 12th, 2006 at 9:02 pmThis, from the same Paul L. Williams, as reported on WorldNetDaily:
Williams predicted in his book a nuclear attack by al-Qaida would be
launched before the end of 2005.
Ooops.
Really, I don’t doubt that such things are possible, but I want to see the evidence that the policies of GWB and the Republican party are in any way, shape, or form addressing such potential threats rather than make them more likely.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:03 pmThen why have so many hospitals in California Closed?
October 12th, 2006 at 9:04 pmIllegals go to the emergency room for ever little ache and they cannot be denied service….. but who pays for it?
NOBODY the hospital eats it.
Now i don’t know about you but I have had a few runs to the emergency room and I’m telling you it isn’t cheap. Plus thier kids get free education and school lunches…… know how much that stuff costs?
I’m guessing not because that would make your statement logically false.
good point ren.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:06 pmbut if NO one hired illegals – then the draw to come for work
would be gone. Therefore if you are not sneaking over the border
for work – then maybe – just maybe you are a potential terrorist.
“Then why have so many hospitals in California Closed?”
I live in SoCal, land of the immigrants. I don’t see evidence for what you are saying.
Illegals go to the emergency room for ever little ache and they cannot be denied service
Showing your racism here. Can you back up this assertion?
Better yet, stick to the topic at hand. How does the current Iraq war policy address the problem of Al Queda operatives sneaking nukes into the US?
If common Republican claim is “fighting them over there means we don’t have to fight them here”. How is that notion reconciled with the allegation that terrorists have been free to enter the US bearing nukes? Doesn’t the latter invalidate the former?
Please explain.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:11 pm#177 Yes, but the main point is that there are people OTM’s Other Than Mexican’s coming across the boarder. The immigration issue is different from the terrorist issue, but the solution is the same in that we need to militarize the boarder and needed to after 9/11. I can’t believe that we haven’t already especially since the republicans report themselves as so great on defence and defending the country. They are full of SH*IT !
October 12th, 2006 at 9:12 pmCompanies need big fines for each illegal they employ.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:14 pmAll services need to be cut for non citizens.
Those who traffic illegals need severe sentences.
So what if I have to pay more for my lettuce I think it is a small price to pay.
Another benefit is that companies will have to raise the pay of the people they employ if they hope to stay in business. If these are jobs Americans wont do I think that may be true for the wages they offer…. but if they have no takers they must raise the wages. These are jobs Americans will do…. If The Price Is Right. :)
#181 I hate your guts but everything you just said in #181 is so true and well put…. and I hate to agree with you but, I have to on this…
October 12th, 2006 at 9:18 pmAccording to the California Healthcare Association CHA, 70 acute care hospitals closed in California between 1993 and 2003—a 13.33% drop in hospital capacity. During the same period, about 11,000 staffed hospital beds were lost (staffed beds are those which are both licensed and have the requisite staff available to care for patients). As the state’s population grew by 13.44% over that decade, acute care hospital bed capacity dropped by 14.24%.
A real measure of how well a state can provide for its sick and disabled population is the ratio of hospital beds per 1,000 population. The minimum national standard set by the 1946 Hill Burton Law was 4.5-5.4 beds per 1,000 population. In 1993, California had 2.5 medical-surgical beds per 1,000 population, statewide. The California Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development reports that, between 1992 and 2001, the number of licensed med-surgical hospital beds dropped by 11%, and the per-capita ratio to 2.13 beds/1,000 population. The number of licensed beds is much higher than the actual number of staffed beds. By 2003, the statewide ratio dropped to just 1.9 beds per 1,000.
It has continued to fall during 2004, as seven more hospitals in the state have closed—six of them in Los Angeles County—with at least three more slated for closure in the county. The CHA told EIR that in 2004, California will have lost another 1,000 hospital beds—more closings and downsizings are imminent—as the state population grew to 36 million residents. The bed/population ratio will fall to 1.8/1,000.
On Sept. 8, the infamous and largest for-profit hospital cartel in the nation, HCA, announced it will close the San Jose Medical Center, with its Emergency Room and Trauma Center, in December—three years earlier than expected. That will leave downtown San Jose, which has a diverse population, without a hospital, ER, or trauma center. HCA intends to raze the hospital to sell off the lucrative property.
Gorn you are so wrong suggesting I hold any racism.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:22 pmI am a huge advocate of treating all people with respect and I know a persons skin color doesn’t point to who they are.
Being in the Navy and Working in many large cities I’m so far from a racist and I’m the guy who calls out this behaviour when I see it in others.
I have family from California it is where I met my wife.
Damn ren I know it was hard for you to say that but it took some guts :)
October 12th, 2006 at 9:24 pmI think some here would disagree with me…JUst for the hell of it regardless of how they really feel. Thank you for being Honest.
Steve #174
I was able to find sources that blamed closures on illegal immigrants, such as the always rational Lyndon LaRouche. I’ll let the reader decide on credibility.
The most recent figure I saw indicated that the 1.25% of hospitals closed. Not sure how much of a crisis that is. While there may be exceptions, I can’t think of any closings of major well-known hospitals.
Sorry, this is off topic, but I thought it was worth reporting.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:29 pm#184 I’m all about defending the US and if the boarders are wide open than whats the point? The terrorists arent going to have visa’s the next time and we wont know their names on the 5 o’clock news…..
October 12th, 2006 at 9:29 pmSteve actually I agree with you on some issues regarding illegal immigration too!
We need to solve this problem but not the way many on the right are asking. Yes, I believe we need to build a wall and up security but other things need to be done as well. For instance, maybe funding the INS properly so that a person hoping to become a citizen wont have to wait 6 years. Further more why the hell do we have that citizenship test? Hell I bet 60 percent of AMERICANS dont even know the answers to those questions. If we dumped that garbage test maybe more Hispanics would be willing to enter this country legally. And lastly expecting Hispanics to know english before coming here is just utter stupidity. Tell me Steve do you know Spanish. Luckily for us our public schools do teach multiple languages but in places like Mexico these classes are not even offered. It is important to learn English but maybe they should learn it in OUR schools.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:33 pmGorn you are so wrong suggesting I hold any racism.
Sorry, Steve, but when you say this:
Illegals go to the emergency room for ever little ache and they cannot be denied service
it’s pretty hard to interpret it any other way. If you say “illegal immigrants put a strain on the emergency health care system”, that is not a racist statement, although not necessarily true. But when you claim that those people have some common characteristic that they “go to the emergency room for every little ache”, this is a racist statement.
I’m not saying you’re going out and beating people of different skin tone, but the attitude expressed in your statement definitely reveals a racially biased view.
In any case, you probably would be well advised to extend your reading program beyond just the reactionary rags you apparently pour over now.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:35 pm#184 Hey Steve, I kind of agree some of your point about #181. But I hard to follow your LOGIC from Iraq war to American job.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:38 pmGorn i agree
When one tries to generalize a intire group of people with sterotypes that is in fact racism. Steve their are better ways to prove your point without being offensive. Illegal immigration is an issue but hateful rhetoric only draws people away from you…
October 12th, 2006 at 9:42 pmSteve,
While Just like ren, I agree with this too, do you know who doesn’t?
Your republican leaders.
They want the illegals to stay and become citizens. “Pathway to Citizenship” Another crappy three word saying that really means “Screw American Citizens”
October 12th, 2006 at 9:53 pmAll Illegals are not mexican. we have illegals here from almost every country and they are many races…. so how am I being racist again? If I was being offensive it is becuase you projected racism where it doesn’t exist.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:54 pmI pretty sure a wall will never really be built. More than likely sensors will be setup…. but the core issue is why are they coming here? Jobs make that carrot go away and some will still cross to drop babies and use our services. It has to be a comprehensive plan.
Spudge Its not just the Republicans… the Democrats are offering a far worse plan. The whole congress needs a good cleaning and I’m a proponent of term limits. Lets face it… take away the party affilation and most of these guys are out to serve THEMSELVES.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:57 pmIsn’t this the gist of what started uo this thread:
“A 10-member bipartisan commission that is charged with assessing Bush’s Iraq strategy has reportedly “ruled out the prospect for victory.†The New York Sun reports:
A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.
Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by former secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, “Stability First†and “Redeploy and Contain,†both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.
The commission was established at the instigation of Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA), and was intended to “devise a fresh set of policies to help the president chart a new course.†Bush noted at his press conference this week that he “supported the idea†of the so-called Iraq Study Group and that he “looks forward to listening†to the commission’s recommendations. Among the leading options being considered by the task force is a redeployment plan:
The “Redeploy and Contain†option calls for the phased withdrawal of American soldiers from Iraq, though the working groups have yet to say when and where those troops will go.
Redeployment offers the last best chance for Iraq. The longer Bush refuses to accept that, the weaker the U.S.’s position unnecessarily becomes.
The Center for American Progress released its Iraq strategy — Strategic Redeployment — in September 2005. It called for the drawdown of troops over 2006 and 2007 to refocus their mission on the war against terrorist networks in the surrounding region. At the time the plan was first proposed, just over 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in the war. Today, the count stands over 2,750.
October 12th, 2006 at 9:58 pm”
What the H*** does illegal imigration have to do with any premise for the thread?
OT, but: uo sb out in #196
October 12th, 2006 at 10:03 pmJohn Murtha could have saved them a lot of trouble – and a lot of time – and a lot of American and Iraqi lives…Sigh….
October 12th, 2006 at 10:04 pmWhat is the matter walt? didn’t want to read the entire postings and jumped to the end in hopes of saying something about the topic?
October 12th, 2006 at 10:07 pmIf you read it you will learn how we got here. But please feel free to interject your comment.
Holy shit !!! Is Borat penning these posts today ? Holy shit…..
October 12th, 2006 at 10:11 pmSteve, OT, I saw how it was steered onto the current path, but the thread is about Iraq and the administration’s massive screw-ups. Think Fast is the place to discuss items with no prior thread.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:12 pmYes, this topic is about the huge foul-up that Bush and his little group of friends caused in Iraq and how James Baker is having to take credit for Jck Murtha’s redeployment plan to save George W Bush’s ass.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:14 pmDamn my bad Walt… should there be an admin here to keep things on topic or are we to police ourselves?
October 12th, 2006 at 10:16 pmI’m most likely responsible for the branch that led us here but If I’m not I’m sure I’ll get the blame for it :)
Steve, we police ourselves – I had failed to find the thread because it as my nite to take the spouse out.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:18 pmBaker Said “If Iraq was not the front line on the war on terror when we went in, it certainly is the front line of the war on terror now,” he told a packed auditorium at Greenwich Library yesterday.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:19 pmSo again I ask where do we redeploy to if the terrorist are in IRAQ?
No, it was you. You blamed illegal aliens for terrorism, then quoted from a WorldNewsDaily as a source for an article about some guy that supposedly stole a crop duster to drop bombs on us. So, yes, you are to blame for derailin gthe thread from Bush’s incompetency.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:21 pmThe friendly nations around Iraq. I thouhgt you said you were in the military. Funny that you don’t know how to redeploy troops. I was taught what redeploy meant when I was in the Army. Weird.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:23 pmIs this the october surprise?
Comment by theswan — October 12, 2006 @ 7:51 pm
Sure it is! And the administration doesn’t even have to announce it since we have an unnamed member of the commission talking about it. Now the idiot Bush supporters will fawn over this plan and the talking mouths will say the Democrats had nothing like it.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:23 pm#206 – That’s easy, the western Indian Ocean. A couple of missle launching destroyers and one Aegis class missle defense system could neutralize anything that Syria, Iran, Iraq or Yemen could throw at us or Israel. India has already neutralized Pakistan
October 12th, 2006 at 10:28 pmOn the other hand…
Bush might concede that his plan indeed mirrors the Democrats’ plan, but then he’ll invent some off the wall reason why we couldn’t do it earlier.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:28 pmlol…. Bush’s own lackies have declared victory impossible.
Stupid monkey-face will probably have to think long and hard about his megalomaniacism. Perhaps NOW he can admit his faults for killing 2,750 of his own people and tens of thousands of others…
While North Korea and its crazyass dictator detonate nukes, Bush is listening to the 1329847193874th source telling him what a dumbass he is. Seriously people, how are we so retarded as to elect this moron twice?? (Not that Kerry was that much better, to be sure…)
October 12th, 2006 at 10:30 pmIn #211, missle sb missile. – darn wireless keyboard!
October 12th, 2006 at 10:32 pmI like the sound of this “Redeploy and Contain” policy: we’ll just go back to where we were 4 years ago, and pretend that whole “invasion” thing never happened….we’re just a few arms and legs and a trillion dollars light somehow…How bout just cut to the chase and call it the “We call do-overs!” policy? How about “Backtrack and Deny”? Yes, Virginia, there is some thing worse than “cut and run”!
October 12th, 2006 at 10:35 pmI fixed it for you.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Walt I can’t pass this up.
Who’s turn is it to take her out tomorrow? :)
October 12th, 2006 at 10:38 pmHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ONCE AGAIN, Daddy’s Lawyer Has To Save Junior’s Ass !!!
BAWAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
October 12th, 2006 at 10:42 pm“redeploy and contain”, gee what a catchy name for the plan Murtha devised 8 months ago. why don’t they just ask Murtha how it works?
October 12th, 2006 at 10:44 pm.
Baker also said this here : But agreeing in part with the current administration, Baker said: “If we picked up and left right now,” Iraq would be plunged into “the biggest civil war you’ve ever seen,” with Turkey, Iran, Syria and other neighbouring countries becoming involved.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:46 pmI am check all the news on james Baker and Nowhere do i see what this article from the SUN is proclaiming.
None of the other articles even hint at Redeployment. People it is a good thing to get your news from a variety of sources and quit drooling over one that says what you want it to say.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:48 pmJames Baker was against redploying before he was for redeploying.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:50 pmThis is the most comprehensive article i have found so far and I’m still reading it.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:51 pmOT, but everyone, say to yourselves – “Bush is really f**** up, this is our thread – do not let the trolls divert me.” Write this statement on a white board fifty times. Each time you diverted by a troll, write the same sentence on a white board 50*2**n times (where n is the number of off-topic responses to the troll) until the urge disappears. Meantime, I will invest in white board and white board marker manufacturers.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:54 pmAre you all of a sudden talking about the frickin’ topic at hand?
WTF?
October 12th, 2006 at 10:54 pmPlus thier kids get free education and school lunches…… know how much that stuff costs?
I’m guessing not because that would make your statement logically false.
Comment by Steve
You sound tough when speaking. Lets see if you survive one day of their work.
October 12th, 2006 at 11:09 pmBush should really pull those troops out, you know… our TAX $$ are going down the tube as we speak, but I doubt the elitist Republicans understand that concept – they just get fat off of our labors and then spit in our face.
Look, I’m not some left-wing radical or anything, but I don’t want to see my $ getting wasted in a war that’s killing innocent lives as we speak. I don’t want a war at all, but if we ARE going to, let’s wage it with SOME logic… as a 16 yr old I don’t see myself as a political genius or anything, but I DO know that people are dying, my school’s budget is shrinking, and that Bush is the dumbest president since… well, no one!
October 12th, 2006 at 11:16 pmwalt, i was way on topic w/219 – can we get a reaction to this group’s report, which, no matter what the go-forward component specifies, essentially says “the “mission” has “accomplished” nothing, and we’d be better off doing virtually anything else”?
October 12th, 2006 at 11:21 pmThe year is 2016. The US Government declares bankruptcy and China, calling in the massive amount of US debt it carries, buys all the arable farmland in the country.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:03 amThe Chinese government declares that in reparation for hundreds of years of slavery and racist oppression, the state of Alabama is renamed Liberia and given in its entirety to Black America. The white Alabamans are rounded up and herded into refugee camps in Arkansas and Texas, the only two states who will take them. Fast forward to 2080.
The third generation of white former Alabamans is really pissed, and start blowing themselves up in Arkansas, Texas and Liberian McDonalds restaurants.
Is this terrorism???
Juan, My 1st real job paid $1.25 an hour and was the most labor intensive job I have ever had. I worked that job for 2 years. I worked at a nursery(Plant and tree). A little more than one day. My first experience at paid work though was a government program where I spent 10 hours a day walking through cornfields with a small spade cutting down mutant corn. That job paid $4.25 an hour.
As for being back on Topic… once walt pointed the error of my ways I adjusted :)
Only one other story said anything about redeployment and only after Iraq was stablized. No report said anything about Victory being unattainable.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:05 ambtoothful I was smart enough not to have a family untill i got a job where i could support them…. I know that is a hard concept to wrap your brain around.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:25 amSteve – Tell me how an instructor at a community college only makes $33,000 a year, where in private practice can make over twice that doing the same job. The instructor is a state employee. Explain that.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:31 amTHe whole “Iraq is the central front in the WOT” is complete bullsh%t!! Where did the Madrid bombers and the London subway bombers go for training? Iraq? sorry, wrong answer, try pakistan and afghanistan.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:33 am[...] According to the New York Sun, the bipartisan Iraq Study Group has “ruled out the prospect for victory” in Iraq: Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by former secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, “Stability First†and “Redeploy and Contain,†both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term. [...]
October 13th, 2006 at 12:40 amWhat about people that ACCIDENTALLY get pregnant?
How the hell do you accidently get pregnant.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:42 amWhy the hell would you be having sex before you could afford the consquences of becoming pregnant?
I know it’s always someone else fault.
Why would you have sex with someone who abuses you?
Ever heard of self respect or maybe self control….. let me toss a new word at you…. responsibility!
Its a market driven world. Obviously if the Instructor settles for the State Job he accepts the pay. If the pay is so horrible for a part time job and no one accepts that pay, the College would have to pay more to attract employees. Always trying to better myself i would opt for the private job.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:47 amYou can’t tell a CRAZY CHRISTIAN from an CRAZY MUSLIM from a CRAZY AGNOSTIC!!!
So wait… between your mad ramblings I am trying to depict where you stand. It seems you are saying religon doesn’t matter…… but if people have morals they are somehow screwed up in the head? Am I getting close?
October 13th, 2006 at 12:51 amUh, because they’re a HUMAN BEING, and we’re PROGRAMMED FOR IT?
I got the impression you thought for yourself…. WHO programmed you?
October 13th, 2006 at 12:56 amMy 1st real job paid $1.25 an hour and was the most labor intensive job I have ever had. I worked that job for 2 years. I worked at a nursery(Plant and tree). A little more than one day. Comment by Steve
Do you think your employers treated you the same way that they are treating illegals? If you did hard labor, imagine the job being done by illegals during 8+ years without social/health benefits at all. I live in Mexico. 2 years of your hardwork means nothing for hungry mexicans willing to clean toilets with their bare hands. But the sutpidiest part of your comments is the way you mix terrorists with poor people jumping a fence. Pathetic.
I was smart enough not to have a family untill i got a job where i could support them
Comment by Steve
Ok. Now we see, where all this comes from. You are a racist. So illegals breed like bunnies and thats why the cant get a sustainable income… Wrong. Poor people breed like bunnies because they:
a) are uneducated and misinformed (they cant go to school if they have nothing in their stomachs)
b) find the only pleasure in their lives in intercourse.
c) need force of labor. Kids are cheap tools for labor: (begging for money, washing car windshields, selling gum, etc.)
Stop seeing terrorist everywhere you look.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:56 amDid you hear me say I was anti-abortion? I think not… we haven’t had that conversation yet. Do I think keeping people poor for mistakes is justice… hell no again you lump me into a group that is very rigid with out asking me what I think. But go ahead with your brazen loud mocking manner… it suits you well. If you comminicate with people like this in the real world you must get your ass kicked alot. LOL
October 13th, 2006 at 12:59 amhmmm people can proclaim to be alot of things… most do out of a need of acceptance. That however doesn’t mean they live what they proclaim to be. I personally think Foley is a scumbag but my previous statements were pointing to how things were handled differently than they were in the past. I’m glad he is gone and at least he had the good judgement to step away and not try to fight it like Studds did.
October 13th, 2006 at 1:05 amIts a market driven world.
Comment by Steve
Not by design…but by imposition.
October 13th, 2006 at 1:05 amIts a market driven world.
Comment by Steve
Not by design…but by imposition.
Comment by Juan+C
Your alternative?
October 13th, 2006 at 1:08 amWHO programmed you?
Comment by Steveâ€
EVOLUTION!!!
Ah but evolution gave us a brain…. not just an animalistic lust to have sex. But maybe you missed out on the brain part LOL
October 13th, 2006 at 1:11 amYour alternative?
Comment by Steve
No Market, No State, No Government …
October 13th, 2006 at 1:12 amI know…I know…”thats impossible”, “how?”, etc. Wait and see.
Ah but evolution gave us a brain…. not just an animalistic lust to have sex. But maybe you missed out on the brain part LOL
Comment by Steve
In fact, sex impulse is regulated by the brain. So, technically, evolution gave us exactly animalistic lust to have sex.
October 13th, 2006 at 1:14 amJuan in the history of man the type of utopia you see has never really been a reality. Once man learned to control his environment markets were established and people became specialized. I’m better at hunting so I trade meat to the guy who can make baskets…..but I agree that we need to become more community orientated and help people become less dependent on governments.
October 13th, 2006 at 1:19 amSteve don’t sleep soon, You kept me amused whole day better than Foax news because your LOGIC – it is NO LOGIC at all.
October 13th, 2006 at 1:39 amhttp://www.misna.org/news.asp?IDLingua=1&id=170451
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/772933.html
Let’s talk about this new Exotic Weapons, please TP prove me wrong!
October 13th, 2006 at 5:46 amHey all you liberal anti torture idiots. This president is protecting us from terrorists. We have given the world a great gift. Iraq now is a democracy. Bush has made sure that these people have been released from a dictator. Today we see that even though 600,000 of their beloved have been killed, that the food, water, electricty,plumbing are not functioning, we have given this country the gift of Democracy. Thank you Bush for making the world a safe place. America hails you and we want you to know that when the war ships reach Iran we hope you give the same gift of Democracy. Hopefully both Countries are sending candy and flowers. You deserve the respect of all. Keep up the good work. I am happy to knowthat when I go to sllep you are at the helm.
October 13th, 2006 at 6:23 amMarvy Mary?…..is this your “queen” name? Karl is it you?
October 13th, 2006 at 6:43 amOh people I really cry for the world. We really may be at the brink of something terrible. I have tried to put a spin on the inhumanity that this government represents but the only thing I can say is this is a government that has gone nuts. We can be mad , we can talk to each other but the simple fact is this government has taken control of the media and we are allowing voting machines that can be hacked before, during and after you vote. I am not a person who has been polictcal, until this year. I am a mighty foe to this bad government. I told my family they were stupid at a family gathering last week because they told me they did not want to discuss politics at a birthday party. This is the lesson and the lesson is we have let our government that is us be taken and this is the subject that must be talked to the end of our lives , if true democracy is to prevail in the world. Stir up everyone. make thwem uncomfortable talk about the truth. This world as we know it may be gone because our government is right now sending war ships to Iran. Where is CONGRESS.? Lessons learned. Vote by absentee ballots because the voting machines can be hacked before, after and during voting. Take our country back. We also lost Habeous corpous last week. Read, seek ,find.
October 13th, 2006 at 6:56 amIt’s very dark in here!
October 13th, 2006 at 7:07 amI truely fear for the world with Bush in power! Simply we have allowed a government to go insane!
October 13th, 2006 at 7:20 amMarvy+Mary
It was just years ago that the voting methods we had were wrong. A strong call came from the Dems to change things… but it seems like the changes are wrong to.
October 13th, 2006 at 8:06 amDems are against photo id to make sure the voter is who they are and only gets one vote.
This prevents dead people and illegals from voting. Why would Dems be against that?
What is sounds like to me is this fanatical cry that the new machinces can be hacked is indeed just the groundwork being laid for an excuse for when they lose once again.
Steve one more proof, there is no difference between a democrat or a republican when a seat is in play.
October 13th, 2006 at 8:43 amWhat is sounds like to me is this fanatical cry that the new machinces can be hacked is indeed just the groundwork being laid for an excuse for when they lose once again.
Comment by Steve
Steve, Im from Argentina. Ive seen everything there is to see about government´s doings in order to keep the ruling class in the power. From fear propaganda to death squads in the room right next to yours. Welcome to the world.
October 13th, 2006 at 8:57 amWe also lost Habeous corpous last week. Read, seek ,find.
Comment by MARVY+MARY
We. should. extinct.
October 13th, 2006 at 8:59 amNope! We should do the right thing, not the most convenient! When you do that usually you pay a much higher price! Always!
October 13th, 2006 at 9:15 amIn other words, the Murtha plan. Duh!
But the delay has resulted in another 6 months of unnecessary killing and carnage in Iraq. I guess you can “blame” much of this on November of even numbered years. All politics, all of the time. So much for leadership and good government. As a consequence we get this, Foleygate, Katrina and all of the other absolute messes that are floating in the cesspool of Washington D.C. today.
October 13th, 2006 at 9:45 amMission Accomplished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 13th, 2006 at 11:52 amDoes the early leaking of this report’s conclusion mean…
…that James Baker NOW thinks Bush should be impeached?
…talk about IRONY!
…or is it…
…”POETIC JUSTICE”?
October 13th, 2006 at 11:54 amBush noted at his press conference this week that he “supported the idea†of the so-called Iraq Study Group and that he “looks forward to listening†to the commission’s recommendations.
Is this the same Bush that everyone here characterizes as ‘can’t admit he is wrong’, ‘unwilling to listen to anyone’, tyrannical dictator?
October 13th, 2006 at 1:38 pm#283 Too late for dead Iraqis when he admit he is wrong and willing to listen anyone, YES TYRANNICAL DICTATOR.
October 13th, 2006 at 4:48 pmAnd too late for our 2000 troops, if paul don’t care about dead Iraqis
October 13th, 2006 at 4:49 pm[...] Think Progress [...]
October 13th, 2006 at 6:00 pmSo much on Iraq is not reported in U.S. media.
-Inquest in UK says US troops “unlawfully” killed British journalist.
-His widow says US troops acted like “trigger-happy cowboys”
-Original 2002 article on Bush releasing funds to N. Korea and allowing them to bypass inspection requirements
- al Qaeda forming broad coalitions with other terror, militant groups
Why doesn’t US media touch this stuff?
http://www.miserywatch.com/2006/10/more_news_not_c.html
October 13th, 2006 at 10:46 pmPaul, please modify your name. There is a troll named paul.
October 13th, 2006 at 11:28 pmit is time for resolve
everybody needs to participate ,the iraqifriends
the iraqiwatchers, the iraqiundecided (who still hold a few
RPG’s) under the couch in their livingrooms., the
Americans who like Bush and the Americans who hate Bush.
We need a resolve . We got an arsenal and the finest Armed Forces
in the world.
Amadinadhad is not an engineer he was the guard holding that
USAF Colonel blindfoldet in 1979 pictures that went around the world.
He is orchstrating with the Ayatolas the Insurgency making
depriving us Our Victory (succesful liberation) in Iraq.
Let’s use our heads. join up/team up/arm up with the above named
October 14th, 2006 at 8:52 pmparties and the insurgency can be destroyed within reasonable time frame.
So it has been conceded that US style democracy cannot be imposed. Will 2007 see three countries Khurdiraq, Shiraq and Suniraq applying for UN membership?
October 18th, 2006 at 11:51 pm[...] And Bush is likely finding it harder and harder to insulate himself from reality in light of the growing number of military experts, republican politicians and pundits and intelligence experts who now feel obligated to speak out about the situation in Iraq. Among those people is the well-respected (at least by Republicans) Bush family loyalist, James Baker. But even he can’t seem to pierce the veil of Bush’s Peter Pan distortion of reality: A 10-member bipartisan commission that is charged with assessing Bush’s Iraq strategy has reportedly “ruled out the prospect for victory.†The New York Sun reports: [...]
October 19th, 2006 at 9:37 am[...] In the three years since, all of these claims have come undone. Since Hussein was captured: – 2,358 U.S. soldiers have died, roughly 85 percent of the total U.S. fatalities during the Iraq war. – Iraq has “become the “cause celebre” for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement.” [Link] – Torture in Iraq “may be worse now than it was under Saddam Hussein, with militias, terrorist groups and government forces disregarding rules on the humane treatment of prisoners,” the U.N.’s anti-torture chief said in September. [Link] – Prospects for the “new Iraq” have fallen sharply. The 10-member bipartisan commission that is charged with assessing Bush’s Iraq strategy has reportedly “ruled out the prospect for victory.” [Link] [...]
November 2nd, 2006 at 6:26 pmi think we should just lauch nuclear bombs that should just destroy the whole dam world and problem solved. the end
December 10th, 2006 at 2:55 pmor maybe we should just move to another planet like mars… hmm im a genius….
December 10th, 2006 at 3:26 pmor maybe we should all move to mars… hmm brilliant idea…
December 10th, 2006 at 3:28 pm