Report: Iraq Study Group Will Rule Out Victory In Iraq, Propose Redeployment
Report: Iraq Study Group Will Rule Out Victory In Iraq, Propose Redeployment
A 10-member bipartisan commission that is charged with assessing Bush’s Iraq strategy has reportedly “ruled out the prospect for victory.” The New York Sun reports:
A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.
Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by former secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, “Stability First” and “Redeploy and Contain,” both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.
The commission was established at the instigation of Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA), and was intended to “devise a fresh set of policies to help the president chart a new course.” Bush noted at his press conference this week that he “supported the idea” of the so-called Iraq Study Group and that he “looks forward to listening” to the commission’s recommendations. Among the leading options being considered by the task force is a redeployment plan:
The “Redeploy and Contain” option calls for the phased withdrawal of American soldiers from Iraq, though the working groups have yet to say when and where those troops will go.
Redeployment offers the last best chance for Iraq. The longer Bush refuses to accept that, the weaker the U.S.’s position unnecessarily becomes.
The Center for American Progress released its Iraq strategy — Strategic Redeployment — in September 2005. It called for the drawdown of troops over 2006 and 2007 to refocus their mission on the war against terrorist networks in the surrounding region. At the time the plan was first proposed, just over 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in the war. Today, the count stands over 2,750.
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So much for Bush’s Plan for Victory working. Just endless lies from the crook.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:55 pmOh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind. lol
October 12th, 2006 at 4:55 pmSo much for Bush’s Plan for Victory working that he spent months and millions lying to us about.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:56 pm[…] Redeployment offers the last best chance for Iraq. The longer Bush refuses to accept that, the weaker the U.S.’s position unnecessarily becomes. The Center for American Progress released its Iraq strategy — Strategic Redeployment — in September 2005. It called for the drawdown of troops over 2006 and 2007 to refocus their mission on the war against terrorist networks in the surrounding region. At the time the plan was first proposed, just over 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in the war. Today, the count stands over 2,750. Original post by Faiz Read More… […]
October 12th, 2006 at 4:57 pmCan we throw Bush in the can now?
October 12th, 2006 at 4:57 pmThis just in from Fox News: The sky is blue.
October 12th, 2006 at 4:58 pmOperation Pull Back & Protect the Oilfields
October 12th, 2006 at 4:59 pmNo victory?
What about Democracy in the Middle East?
What about WMD?
What about Yellow Cake?
What about “fighting them over there instead of over here”?
What about… oi… my head hurts… these “cut and run” ReichWingNuts…
October 12th, 2006 at 5:02 pmSo would Bush’s plan for victory mean pulling out is victory?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:03 pmIf so, I’m all for victory!
Hmmmmm…
“Stability First†and “Redeploy and Contain†- - In other words, the John Murtha Plan. Why do we treat our troops as if they’re heartless, unfeeling automatons?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:08 pmSo, will the $20 million that’s in the 2007 budget be returned since we won’t be having any victory parties?
Of course, Bush will change course and say the study/commission is not credible.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:12 pmSo James Baker is a “defeat-o-crat”? He thinks we should cut and run? Why does the bipartisan commission hate America?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:14 pmHow did Clinton manage to mess this one up? Damn! that guy is sneaky.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:14 pmDidn’t James Baker say on the Daily Show that this report wouldn’t be released until after the election to remove the idea that it was released for “political” purposes? If so, I can understand why - God forbid the American public know that the current leadership is full of shit.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:16 pm“Redeploy and Containâ€
See, Bush had to “stay the course” until Rove could transform Murtha’s plan into a 3-word phrase.
Now can we get our young women and men out of harm’s way?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:18 pmSMOKE SCREEN:
Bush needs out. He MUST get out to save the Army. Now, instead of Bush “cutting and running”, he’ll just point to this report (whose conclusions were pre-determined) and say “i need to follow this”.
It’s his cover for doing what the Dems have wanted to do.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmBut…..but….but….Mission Acomm……. Was I lied to?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmLooks like Operation Iraqi Liberation isn’t going as well as PNAC wanted it to.
Next time they should hire Haliburton to give out bushles of flowers and boxes of candy to be thrown to our troops before we invade.
Maybe next time we won’t let priceless historical relics be stolen and destroyed in lew of protecting the oil fields.
Maybe next time PNAC can make sure that we send enough troops to do the job.
Next time they can hire a sober person or at least a drunk who has gone through a tweleve step program.
Maybe next time we will get all of our major allies, including France, to get behind a big freedom march across the Middle East.
Maybe next time PNAC will make sure that the armor on the military vehicles is up to snuff.
Next time PNAC will think to spread the contracts for reconstruction around instead of giving them all to Haliburton, KBR and Bechtel.
Maybe not.
Maybe there should be another underfunded, underman, per-emptive war on a soveriegn nation.
Maybe George W. Bush was the wrong puppet.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmIraqis will ‘Tolerate’ Another ‘Level Of Violence’
October 12th, 2006 at 5:20 pmYeh, let’s vote, and then be told a few days later that we (not me) are voting for incompetent lying idiots, when it is safe for those idiots to be unmasked. Could they have picked a worse time to release it? People are going to be like smacking themselves in the forehead, thinking, your kiddin me??? Ive been being jerked around this long only to find out when I have no more options to do anything about it for two more years.
Un-F—King real.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:21 pmof course that should be “shouldn’t be another war”
October 12th, 2006 at 5:22 pm“Baker Cooks Up New Recipe”
Care for some juice with your crow sandwich Mr. President?
I thought Preznit was the decider?
Yet again Daddies friends bail out Poor George.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pmNow, you tell me how this fits with Bush announcing yesterday that troops will be in Iraq until 2010.
I thought that was for “future presidents to decide”
October 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pmOh yeah, Murtha’s plan.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:30 pmI don’t think that the statement they like to trumpet now and again that time will show that bushie will be considered a great president. Lots of luck with that one. glug…glug….glug…
October 12th, 2006 at 5:34 pmdlet,
Maybe in a Vlad the Impaler kind of way.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:36 pmWell, chalk it up to lessons learned. The war with IRAN will go a lot smother. At least the MSM news (commercials) for war with Iran will say something like that.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:37 pmUK army chief calls for Iraq withdrawal
Press Association
Thursday October 12, 2006
Guardian Unlimited
The head of the British army tonight called for troops to be withdrawn from Iraq “soon”.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:38 pmGeneral Sir Richard Dannatt told the Daily Mail that Britain’s presence in the country was “exacerbating” security problems.
#2 “Oh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind.”
Dreamer!
DUHbya can’t change his mind because he doesn’t have one. Turdblossom and Cheney may change their mind but only if they believed at first that the commission would listen to them. They will still pull the Puppet King’s strings and Queen George the Dumb will issue a sighing statement saying the commission is just playing party politics and they really want him to “Persevere the Progression.”
October 12th, 2006 at 5:39 pmBUSH WILL START TO PULL OUT BEFORE ELECTION AS A VOTE WINNER
October 12th, 2006 at 5:39 pmYou make me sick. Lets celebrate a report that says we should not have Victory in Iraq.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:41 pmDo most of you believe this great country of our is not capable of Victory?
Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
There is no way we will redeploy. How does that help the Iraqi’s?
Are you in a big mess of your own making? Is your last name Bush? Do you need a fixer? Then it must be time to call in James Baker. Baker has been the Bush consiglieri for the past 40 years - he’s the Tom Hagen of Texas. So why would I believe a word he says? He’s just earning his paycheck from the Family.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:43 pmSo some people were commissioned to come up with new policy on Iraq. So they are telling the executive branch how to do their job. Lord knows the executive needs this, but I don’t see it being welcomed with flowers, hugs and kisses.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:44 pmYes, redeploy, except not to Iran or North Korea, dumbf**kwadboy!
October 12th, 2006 at 5:50 pm‘he “supported the idea†of the so-called Iraq Study Group and that he “looks forward to listening†to the commission’s recommendations.’
October 12th, 2006 at 5:51 pmUntil they told him something he didn’t want to hear.
Rove will now smear these folks as traitors and cowards.
Stevey -
October 12th, 2006 at 5:53 pmPlease provide all us here with your definition of Victory for “this great country”. Specifics please, and a rational explanation of how to achieve it would be nice.
Might even land you a job in the Pentagon or White House!
31 - Well genius, pick up a gun and help out!
October 12th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI see Steve and his black and white strawman have chosen to grace us with their pathetic attempt at playing “shame on you guys” Nobody’s buying it Steve - go back to your radio. W is an idiot and a failure - wouldn’t matter which party he belonged to - he’d still be one. Everyone who bought his snake oil re: WoT, etc., is a dupe and a rube, and this group’s report is the long overdue proof.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:55 pm#31: this great country definely Victory in the meanless insane war, but with some prices.
- More than 2000 American deaths
- More than 660,000 Iraqis deaths (large innocent ppl)
- Another Terrible Torture Bills
- Another Whitetap Bills against all citizens.
- Bush to be the first emperor , he will lead you to VICTORY.
I support for another plan to VICTORY - NO BUSH, NO INSANE REPUGS.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:55 pm“Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?”
You can if you like, but that’s not my plan. I’d prefer if we went after the people who actually attacked us on 9/11. Hint: They’re not in Iraq.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:57 pmOnce again, Poppy and his buddies rush in to save Little Boots’ ass. Let’s see if Bushie is man enough to admit he f**ked up again and let them get him out of the quagmire.
Did anyone else notice that this is basically the plan that Murtha has been pushing for months now? Will he get any credit? Because you know, Democrats have no plans, no ideas……
October 12th, 2006 at 5:58 pmHey Steve, since you are willing for murder to continue in your name, and for the lives of young americans to be lost as a result of a mistake - just so that you can fill the void of your empty and pathetic life with a meaningless “victory” - then immediately enlist in the military and request a front-line position in Iraq.
Otherwise, you won’t be just a moronic fool, but you will be a honorless coward as well. I already know that you are both and I’m sorry that I have to expose the farce that you are to the folks here.
May peace be with us all.
October 12th, 2006 at 5:58 pm“Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?â€
How bad could 72 virgins be?
October 12th, 2006 at 5:59 pmSteve, dude, the Iraqis want us to get the h*ll out of their country - they don’t want our brand of “help” which has led to the slaughter of some 600,000 innocents.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:00 pmYou want a real answer?
October 12th, 2006 at 6:00 pmHow about placing more troops in country to close the borders to eliminate the flow of insurgents.
How about bombing ANY country giving support or comfort to our enemys.
Eliminate all militia’s and give the growing Iraqi Army a chance to get a foothold.
Take the gloves off and treat this like a war and not a police action.
We have the ability to get the job done but we are trying to fight a PC war.
How bad could 72 virgins be?
Comment by ForTruth
I wouldn’t say bad. Just inexperienced.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:02 pm#31: You should be asking these questions of James Baker and the rest of the commission. We are not ruling out victory, the commission said it.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmNow, you tell me how this fits with Bush announcing yesterday that troops will be in Iraq until 2010.
I thought that was for “future presidents to decideâ€
Comment by Spudge_Boy
It fits nicely…..the twit will continue to stay the course as the “2010 decision†indicates and just hand the “study group†report over to the future president to decide…..nothing changes…..everything between now and then is just posturing. Outside of maybe hoping to achieve his goal of becoming only the 2nd to order a nuke drop, he’s just gearing for the X-president’s club……and hopefully, he can be impeached into that club next year….
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmEliminate all militia’s and give the growing Iraqi Army a chance to get a foothold.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmBWAHAHAH!
The army is heavily infiltrated by the militias!
Oh, by the way, the guys who run the militias are also running the puppet government.
Let’s just nuke the entire country and call it done, huh?
Humanist that shows how little of me you know. I have served my country I did so for 8 years…. 8 years longer than i’m sure your pathetic ass has. I am however now above the age to reenlist however I have a son who is 18 and if he chooses to enlist he has my full support. I’m sure you would sheppard your son off to Canada….. that is if you had what it takes to make a SON.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pmSo John Kerry was right to ask who the last man will be to die for a lie… amazing how his question also applied to Iraq… that man was a genius… years ahead of his time…
Can we turn BushCo over to the World Court NOW?
They need to stand trial for war crimes, every single stinking greedy evil one of them!
October 12th, 2006 at 6:06 pm#2 “Oh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind.â€
Good, I hope this one works better for him!
#31 “Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?”
Yes, it’s just that black and white. It’s either total victory or the death of us all.
Cutting your losses and changing the game plan for the battle doesn’t necessarily mean a losing the whole “war on terra.”
October 12th, 2006 at 6:07 pmAccording to Dubya, you have to sway Laura Bush and his dog Barney before he’ll withdraw troops from Iraq. What congress should have done was include Laura Bush and Barney in that commission.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:07 pmSo, Steve thinks we should stay the course. Sounds like a plan!
October 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pmYou make me sick. Lets celebrate a report that says we should not have Victory in Iraq.
Do most of you believe this great country of our is not capable of Victory?
Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
There is no way we will redeploy. How does that help the Iraqi’s?
Comment by Steve — October 12, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
Steve, the report is not saying we “should not” have victory. It is saying that we “cannot” have victory. Why? Because Bush and Co. have screwed things up so badly there already. So give James Baker a call and tell him that he makes you sick too. And as for that “take a number to have our throats slit”, I think you need to lay off the crack pipe there buddy. You sound like a sniveling little coward afraid of his shadow.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pmooh - see steve - you’re starting to get your feelings hurt, like i told you you would, but you wouldn’t listen - you wouldn’t go join your proper congregation elsewhere. had to stay here, had to keep asking for it (for christ’s sake, Exley’s even smart enough to choose his battles wisely here) now you’ve opened youself up to just about anything. luck for you this isn’t a right wing outfit, or someone would publish your home address and phone # by tomorrow morning and you’d have a bunch of wackos littering your lawn for breakfast. quit while you’re not way behind. seek out those of your own kind and enjoy the companionship and whatnot.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pm#50-Steve,
Actually, your 8 years is considerably less service than what my “pathetic ass” has done. So, if your service is less than mine, and in your eyes my level of service makes me a “pathetic ass”, then what does that say for you?
So, you not only prove beyond a doubt that you are a moronic idiot, but you show that your cowardice seems to be following your bloodline. I have no further words for you.
May peace be with us all.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pm#52 USAF vet - thank you.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pmHow about placing more troops in country to close the borders to eliminate the flow of insurgents.
Comment by Steve — October 12, 2006 @ 6:00 pm
Steve, closing the borders won’t do it, because the insurgents are 99% Iraqis, and they already happen to be in their own country. So maybe we should expel the 70% of Iraqis who want us out before closing the borders.
Moron.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:12 pmYou make me sick. Lets celebrate a report that says we should not have Victory in Iraq.
Apparently, it says victory at the current definition is not attainable. It doesn’t say we “should not have” victory.
What is victory? What is the plan? What is the exit strategy? Victory must be measured against something.
Do most of you believe this great country of our is not capable of Victory?
See above. Victory is determined based on whether or not objectives are achieved. Where there are no objectives, or the objectives are not attainable by force, then there can be no victory.
The original objective, I think, was to remove Hussein from power. By that measure, we achieved our victory long ago. The current objective is… what?
Here’s a good example of a victory statement: It is an objective to remove the current US regime from power. Stage one in that objective is to prevent the regime from doing further damage. Victory in that will be achieved next month by taking control away from Republicans for at least one branch of government.
Objective-strategy-tactics-metrics.
Should we just go ahead and surrender to the radical Muslims and take a number to have our Throats slit?
You do like your strawmen. Have you stopped beating your kids?
Is there some reason that you assume that people who recognize the folly of this botched war somehow do not share your goal of reducing the threat of terrorism? Is it your way or the highway? Well hell, why are we wasting time and US lives, then, when we could just drop a few nukes and the problem would be gone? Or, perhaps there is a continuum of possible approaches ranging from nukes on one end to capitulation on the other end? Perhaps a policy that includes targeted military action, agressive containment, and diplomacy is better than a badly planned occupy-subjugate-and-destroy approach? Or is it that anyone who does not agree with your narrow view is somehow a coward, non-patriot, or traitor?
We should be going after radical terrorists wherever they are. If they are being sheltered by a government, we have the right to take action to eliminate the threat, even to the point of invasive military action. Oddly, this was not the case with Iraq. Iraq was very well contained and did not pose any immediate threat to the US, had no connection to Al Queda, and had no WMD. Face the truth.
There is no way we will redeploy.
Of course we will. The question is when.
How does that help the Iraqi’s?
How has it helped the Iraqis for us to stay this long? Please, serious answers only.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:12 pm#52 - Good man.
#50 - Bit of a prick.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:14 pmSteve, there was never a declaration of war. There were never clear goals or objectives other than toppling Saddam. It was very short sided and because of these missteps we have lost thousands of lives, destroyed untold more, saddled the next generations with debt that hasn’t been talked about all for what, an abstract, ill concieved war on terror.
I will not sit by while more money is thrown at this and more lives are lost. The only way to come close to your pipe dream would be to initiate the draft and Mr. Mandate has already spent his political capital. There is no way the American public would go along with that.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:15 pm#2 “Oh man, now Bush HAS to change his mind.â€
I hope so, the mind he has now doesn’t work real well….
#50. I served as well, and I can say your statement toward humanist is that of an idiot.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:15 pmThis administration started the war in Iraq on a pack of lies, while letting the real terrorists and Bin Laudin go. They are making peace overtures to the Taliban now.
Iraq was never about terrorists Moron.
There is an insurgency and a civil war going on there because of the idiocy of the current administration.
Yes, Steve, many of us served as well.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI logged 2 years 8 months of a 3 year enlistment (early out for going to Nam)
Many of us have seen and been in combat. This makes us weary/wary of the belligerent bluster of your rant.
I hope your son has the nerve to tell you to shove it if you tell him to enlist.
The fact that you spent eight years, then left shows me you didn’t have the smarts to get out sooner, nor the discipline to stay a lifer.
Take your crap elsewhere, or quit whining when we nail your proverbial ass to the wall.
2010 isnt that far away. and the total number of US dead will still be under 5000.
Iran will start by 2007 so its not that big a deal to keep troops in Iraq
with 300 million people , this country has a large supply of 20 year old soldiers. lets use them.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:18 pmFolks, I think we are witnessing Steve undergoing a full blown cognitive meltdown.
As for Bush following the advice of this commission, forget it. Look at all the people who have tried to persuade him to get rid of Rumsfeld, apparently including his chief of staff and his wife. But if there is one thing Bush knows how to do, it is dig in his heels. There is no way this guy will change course until he is forced to by others. Indeed, I think his response will be to lash out at his critics in the worst possible way, perhaps by launching an attack against Iran.
Bush believes he talks to God, and that he has a destiny to fulfill. This guy is now the most dangerous person on earth, and I wouldn’t put it past him to drop a nuclear bomb to fulfill his imagined destiny.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:19 pmsteve, son you are a really bad joke - you fascist.
humanist lives in tierra del fuego - or some such.
please ENCOURAGE your son to enlist. The more of you
cultist joint the less chance for a draft.
oh - sorry - you only want other’s kids to die.
ou cannot make an army comprised of 3 groups who
have centuries old hatred and distrus for each other.
the policy if Iraq has failed because we are not
doing for belevolent reasons.
get a clue dufus.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:30 pm#66—Folks, I think we are witnessing Steve undergoing a full blown cognitive meltdown.— Realscientist
I suspect Steve has never been in combat. Most vets that see combat end up hating violence. Personally, I can’t even watch a war movie. If one is on at home, I walk outside. I don’t even hunt any more or even own a gun.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:31 pm#67: I believe in DUFUS have nothing interesting to Bush.Co
October 12th, 2006 at 6:36 pm[…] Report: Iraq Study Group Will Rule Out Victory In Iraq, Propose Redeployment […]
October 12th, 2006 at 6:36 pmSteve
We can’t even secure our borders, how many troops can we deploy when pussies like you who talk the talk, won’t even join up to walk the walk? If every American citizen was patrolling the border it wouldn’t stop the violence, the violence is coming from within, HOW FRIGGEN STUPID ARE YOU? Turn off Fux news, Rush, Coulter etc. and wake up to reality. It’s not pretty, but we don’t have to live behind lie after lie.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:43 pm“Redeploy Stay the course!”….new chimp slogan.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:50 pmI’d love to be in the room when Bush actually gets the formal copy of the report. I can just hear the faux Texan, poseur cowpoke screaming…
October 12th, 2006 at 6:54 pm“It’s just a goddamn piece of paper”
So much subject material so little time.
While Al Qiada wasn’t in Iraq to start with there is no denying they are there now so if we follow the logic of going after them where ever they are it kind of nice to get them to come to you and not to have to hunt them.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:54 pmSo if we Redeploy and focus on going after terrorist where do you fools think we will find them?
We leave and a huge vaccum takes place and attracks even more.
Maybe that is the plan let them come and then nuke the whole place.
Gorn what have we done for the Iraqi’s? Please tell me you read news more then just the liberal Blathering that says everything is bad in Iraq. Truth is outside of Baghdad life isn’t so bad.
Women now have freedoms they didn’t before.(How the hell did we let that happen)
12 million Got out to VOTE
The Iraqi economy is picking up and many more positive things…… do a little reading and you might be suprised…. but then again that might conflict with your belief so we can’t have that.
Humanist you said you served but not where. Dog Catcher in Boston?
Hey Steve, it’s sad to see your eight years of service come to this…
The few, the proud…
October 12th, 2006 at 6:57 pmHad they admitted this sooner, Foleygate wouldn’t have smeared the GOP like it continues to do. Now troop withdrawl looks like mollifying critics. Friggin’ hypocritical GOP.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:58 pm#74 - Actually, I heard that women are slightly more repressed now than they were before.
October 12th, 2006 at 6:59 pmIf they had admitted this sooner, Foleygate wouldn’t have smeared the GOP like it continues to do. Now troop withdrawl looks like mollifying critics. Friggin’ hypocritical GOP.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:00 pmWOO-HOO!!! Steve gets the sucker for punishment award….a little energizer bunny, cause he just keeps coming back fo more……
October 12th, 2006 at 7:00 pmMy ex- brother-in-law has that 1000 mile stare from Nam. Was shot 3 times. Had to fake dead while being jumped on (after being shot in the back).
Steve, you really have no idea how bad it can be.
Don’t judge, please.
Everyone is saying, “Get the Heck out of there.”
October 12th, 2006 at 7:02 pmI’d like to know why you feel that all of these experts and former Generals AND military are wrong, and you are right.
That’s a shame, Steve. I was trying to send you a picture of a little brown child pissing on a grunt wielding a machine gun. I know it must be a disappointment to miss that; I’ll do my best to find another way.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:03 pmSteve, do you really think the death squads murdering hundreds of Iraqis a week are AlQaeda? Evidence suggests not.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:03 pmWe leave and the Iraqi people will root them out if they want them out.
Pretty simple. They all have guns. They know how to use them.
By the by, how’s that Hezbollah recruiting station doing in Basra? From what I hear it’s gangbusters! Women sure have a lot of rights under the Sharia being imposed in the Southern provinces.
Oh, by the way, most of those who vote, vote for whomever their clan/tribal leaders tell them to. That’s the way the society works.
But you wouldn’t know much about that.
How many hours of electicity does Basra get?
The only place the economy is doing anything is in the Kurdish zone.
Oh god no…
October 12th, 2006 at 7:05 pmWhat branch of service were you in Steve, what rank? Just curious and all.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:06 pmSuch a blanket statement “Everyone is Saying”
If we get the heck out then what? Please I need to know. I won’t sleep nights not knowing what next.
Tom, the thing is all of you liberals are so full of hot air that when piled up on my back you just don’t weigh that much :)
October 12th, 2006 at 7:06 pmThe sad thing is that Emperor Bush “knew” that he had to invade Iraq. God told him so. Doesn’t this alone make Bush a potential mental patient?
Thinking back 30 or so years to Tricky Dick… pressure from We The People reminded those in Congress that NO ONE is above the law… and Nixon left in disgrace.
Anyone remember what laws it was that Dick broke? Sure, breaking and entering were important, but they weren’t the important part of the story. Give up? It was WIRETAPPING.
Fast forward 30 or so years… and lookee here… what do we have?… yet another Republican Fool who thinks he’s above and beyond the law!
Write/Call/FAX your CongressCritters! NO ONE is above the law!!! This includes Emperor Bush and his merry band of henchmen.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:08 pmI was US Navy ET2 That stands for Electronics Technician E-5 pay grade.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:11 pmI was stationed in San Diego and was deployed in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Iran after the Korean Airliner was shot down. I joined during the Iran Hostage Crisis.
“Truth is outside of Baghdad life isn’t so bad.” — Steve
Boy are you misinformed, I have family in Iraq now. It is real bad, people are murdered by death squads daily. Death squads run by the current Iraqi government.
The Suni and Shiite are at each other’s throats and both are attacking or men and women over there.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:12 pmIt is a civil war, that Bush and Dumbsfeld have created with their inept handling of a war we should have never started.
Perhaps they’ll send us flowers when we pull out.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:12 pmMaybe Steve got “paged” by the Emperor Himself?
I know the military messes with people. But this guy has been particularly messed with.
Sad to see. Really sad.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:14 pmSteve #74 - still waiting to hear your plan. Clearly state an objective and a measurement of victory. Your assumptions about what I do and do not read, and whether my sources are “liberal” or otherwise, are devoid of value and meaning.
It’s very simple. Victory cannot be achieved unless we know what victory means. If it means wiping every Islamic extremest off the earth, you better also offer a way to measure that. The current indicators are that we are creating them faster than we can kill them, so I’d like to see a plan for how this is to be achieved. The plan should also make clear how many Americans, allies, and innocents will need to be sacrificed to achieve it, and the cost from our collective treasuries that will be required.
I can support war when there is clear purpose that serves the interests of American and human ideals, but I want to see an objective and an achievable plan. Is that too much to ask, or do we just have to drink the koolaid and follow the bumbling halfwit cowboy merrily into the abyss?
By the way, the fact that he believes he is doing God’s work and that he is following the path to end-of-days really doesn’t fill me with confidence. I don’t believe in any of that tripe, so if he wants my support, I want answers derived from the perspective of reality.
Now, try to produce a coherent answer without resorting to red herrings about “you libruls”.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:15 pmIs that the best you can do JC? I have seen some of your other post and that was weak by comparison.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:15 pm#74:
While ALQiada wasn’t in Iraq, following your LOGIC we should destroy the country to call AlQiada come to play with us? Sorry, I can’t understand your INSANE IDEA! Actually NIE reports said Iraq war recuirt more AlQiada sympathizers.
Bush really made a huge vaccum in Iraq when attack Sadam without post-war plan. You should not ask us “What have we done for the Iraqi’s?”Ask Iraqis, Ops they said “Get out”. Truth is outside of Baghdad life isn’t so bad compare with pre-war, compare with our country???
Again compare with pre-war??
Look the facts to not support for another INSANE, NO_PLAN, MEANLESS, OIL WARS.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:18 pmSteve: “Eliminate all militia’s and give the growing Iraqi Army a chance to get a foothold.”
Eliminate all militias???!!! I guess, to some people sitting behind their trusty keyboards, that sounds like an easy thing to do. Steve, our own National Intelligence Estimate along with Jimma Baker doesn’t agree with you. You’re sitting there complaining about liberals. Man, wise up. Jimma Baker isn’t a liberal.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:19 pmI was US Navy ET2 That stands for Electronics Technician E-5 pay grade.
I was stationed in San Diego and was deployed in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Iran after the Korean Airliner was shot down. I joined during the Iran Hostage Crisis. Comment by Steve
Ahh, just as I thought, never saw a day of real combat, ever. Never saw one of your buddies get blown away next to you. Never actually had to fire your weapon back at an enemy firing at you.
Never actually had to kill anyone.
Of course you are all for more killing for Bush’s lies….. Moron.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:22 pmSteve #88
Hey, Steve, thanks for your service to our country. Regardless of whether or not you saw battle, the service is appreciated.
On the other hand, service by itself does not make your opinion on Iraq either right or wrong.
Many former generals are on record against this war. Balancing that is the preponderance of chicken hawks in the administration who have never served at all, or have done so only by the barest definition. I’m not sure if any of them served in battle, but none that I know of.
You have my respect for serving, but your politics are very ill informed. Every time you shout “liberal” you show your ignorance. Rush Limbaugh labels are not what counts in the real world.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:23 pmsounds like murtha’s plan.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:24 pmSo, “W” will be bailed out one more time. Daddy to the rescue. Jim will lead the way. They apparently got to stuff to come out smellin like a rose and slippin jail just like Pinochet. They own your Supreme Court. Protected from prosecution by his own laws. All the while he spys on you too make sure you don’t object. You are likely a criminal, you know.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:28 pmSteve, I respect your service, but man, you need to do better research before pummeling us with a fecal avalanche of fictional “factoids”. Peace.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:31 pmSteve: “So if we Redeploy and focus on going after terrorist where do you fools think we will find them?”
Steve, for a small fraction of the money we’re spending on Iraq, we could outfit every port in America with nuclear and biological screening devices, outfit every commercial airliner with anti-missle technology, shore up the defenses of every chemical and nuclear plant in America, strengthen cock-pit doors in every airliner, pay for armed air marshals on every flight, train and hire thousands of Arabic language translators and still have enough to send 10,000 special forces to Afganistan to finish the job routing those bastards out of the mountains. You’ve been lied to, manipulated and scared stupid. Time to wise up.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:31 pm“Mission Demolished”
Another RW fantasy that we can kill our way to righteousness. Too bad the current chickenhawks in power avoided their opportunity to serve when they had the chance back in the 60’s, the first hand horror of that experience might have served them well.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:31 pmGorn
October 12th, 2006 at 7:32 pmI agree that we need something that defines victory.
Victory should be to provide for the safety of our citizens and those of our Allies.
This war is not a conventional type war where you can draw up on a map and say we need to attack this spot and hold it. Our Enemy isn’t really a government. Iran and NK are just being led by insane dictators (Liberal Note: Bush is an insane dictator) and given the choice I think all humans yearn to be free.
This isn’t something we can win in a few months and many other countries are to blame for this haterd that is aimed at us. Saudi Arabia and many others. Its easy to make someone else out to be the bad guy and aim peoples hate there when you wish to stay in power and can’t have that hate pointed your way.
This is a much more complicated problem then I have all the answers too but I do think we need to Invest in Coal to Liquid, Ethanol and other alternatives so we have some leverage with this other Regimes.
When we become dependent of oil they will become meaningless in the world unless they start changing thier cultures.
While i don’t agree with every step of how we have handled this war I think it goes a lot farther then doing nothing.
And I quote the wonderful Decider:
“Leaving Iraq will be a decision for the next President.”
October 12th, 2006 at 7:32 pmSteve,
The feeling is mutual.
Not sure that “We told you so” is considered celebrating, but okay, ‘Lets” You bring the beer.
Not in Iraq. Neither did George H W Bush or Dick Cheney at the end of Operation Desert Storm. Are you old enough to remember that? I do, I was in it and I know why we left, without going into Bahgdad.
Go ahead, but us progressives will be fighting the war on terror, while you are joining the crack suicide squad.
That’s what you think.
The Global War on Terror is about protecting Americans, not freeing Iraqis. They got their own problems that THEY need to sort out.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:36 pmThis isn’t something we can win in a few months and many other countries are to blame for this haterd that is aimed at us. Saudi Arabia and many others. Its easy to make someone else out to be the bad guy and aim peoples hate there when you wish to stay in power and can’t have that hate pointed your way…
When we become dependent of oil they will become meaningless in the world unless they start changing thier cultures.
Steve, the more you ’splain, the worse you sound. How are Many Other Countries to blame (Israel>?) How is Saudi Arabia to blame for other people hating us. Maybe our policies have something to do with it.?
October 12th, 2006 at 7:38 pmWe are already “dependent” of oil>? BTW> don’t hold your breath on “they start changing their cultures.
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzz. Compose yourself. Then compose your thoughts. Thanks
Steve, watch out for btruthmon. He’s our CIA mole.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:39 pmAnd so it’s rep Wolf, R,va that proposed this. I recollect the “real represenative of the PEOPLE” John Murtha, D, PA had this idea long before jimmy baker and daddy. Don’t believe anything out of this administration. And, what will Condi’s role be? Zip!
October 12th, 2006 at 7:41 pmthat photo is classic… you can almost imagine Baker trying to break it to Bush gently, and the president confused and angry…
October 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pmSteve, then explain why we should stay in Iraq if this is how you feel. It is a direct contradiction to what you say here.
We should attack this spot (Iraq) and hold it (occupation).
You can’t have it both ways.
You can’t say we shouldn’t attack a spot and hold it, then support staying in Iraq, because it is a spot we attacked and are holding.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pmDaddy can’t take much more, w.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pmAgain, Steve, for a small fraction of the money we’re spending on Iraq, we could outfit every port in America with nuclear and biological screening devices, outfit every commercial airliner with anti-missle technology, shore up the defenses of every chemical and nuclear plant in America, strengthen cock-pit doors in every airliner, pay for armed air marshals on every flight, train and hire thousands of Arabic language translators and still have enough to send 10,000 special forces to Afganistan to finish the job routing those bastards out of the mountains. You’ve been lied to, manipulated and scared stupid. Time to wise up.
As the Spudge boy said, the war on terror is about protecting us from terror. Don’t you think the things listed above would do more to protect Americans than spending billions a week in Iraq?
October 12th, 2006 at 7:43 pm107—”This war is not a conventional type war where you can draw up on a map and say we need to attack this spot and hold it.” –Steve
This is where you are confusing the Iraq War with the war on terrorism.
The people behind 9/11 were not in Iraq. There were no wmds in iraq. It was all started on a bunch of lies.
The real war on Alqueda and the taliban that was supporting them, they were in Iraq, right? NO
Also, fighting terrorists by invading a country does not work. This is where police work and special forces work best. Catch them, arrest them, or send special ops in to take them out. That works, you just don’t always hear about those success stories.
Its good you served, but you need to educate yourself on what is really happening. It is not broadcasted on Faux news.
Google PNAC bud, see what is actually behind todays situation.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:46 pm#107 Steve
Victory should be to provide for the safety of our citizens and those of our Allies.
I agree. I suspect this is a goal that everyone here would share. However, it is way too vague to be a war objective. The problem is that the people in charge have set up this notion of a non-conventional war (which has truth to it) as a facade to basically do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want. They are working to achieve a pre-determined set of pipe dreams (an unholy alliance of neocon goals to redesign the world, and religio-nut dreams to end the world). There is no other explanation for the provocative and wild rhetoric, or for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. If the real issue was routing out terrorists, we would have gone full bore into Afghanistan and used the worldwide support we had to kick major ass. Instead, we squandered it all on the neocon dream in Iraq.
Now, this is flat-out truth, waiting out there to be discovered by those with eyes to see.
Regarding a valuable set of meaningful and achievable anti-terrorism defense objectives, I think bluedog did a great job summarizing thus:
This would not eliminate terrorism, but it would make it a damn sight harder to implement, would add a level of security to our daily lives, would not eliminate our hard-fought freedoms, and would not create worldwide enemies and condemnation. Add into this mix the willingness to take targeted military action for punitive, deterrent, and eradication purposes, and some serious attention to the vacuum of worldwide diplomacy, and now you’ve got something the majority of Americans would support.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:49 pmOh I don’t know maybe setting up schools that teach hate America on a daily basis for years on end might shape someones opinion.
I’m sure if we set up schools here in America that taught our kids that all the worlds problems were due to the Blolivians you would send your kids there.
Hell no that would not be tolerated in our society the only thing we can talk bad about in our schools is how America is responsible for all the worlds problems. What Country do we live in?
b(stir the pot)truthful are you trying to convert me to a Christian?
October 12th, 2006 at 7:51 pmIs this the october surprise? The “peace president”? Circle the wagons. W’s goin for broke. Gas prices, stock market , absent foley, kim jung il’’s gifts. May not look so good for stiffled, wimped democrats.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:51 pmStarted a insane war, it is hard to make figure out defines of victory; you should define your scopes before do something.
This war is not a conventional type war because it follow your INSANE LOGIC. This war called fantatic WMD war. This war called Bush Oil Co. Our enemies is oil-rich countries who refused to sell for us with low price.
You already did something. You supported to kill 660,000 Iraqis instead of start to invest in coal to liquid, ethanol and other alternatives. Poor for those deaths because Steve figured out this too late.
October 12th, 2006 at 7:57 pmBluedog what about our borders? What about all the illegals already here?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:01 pmWhat about those who live amongst us now who would do us harm? You can spend all you want and the terrorist will adjust.
I just happen to think spending to change the culture that creates them is a good plan. Without hope what do these people look forward to? They are lied to about what happens when they die in battle or blow themselves up.
This culture that breeds these soulless individuals is the real threat. If it is not dealt with you are fooling yourself that we can just pull up the drawbridge and be safe.
Electronics Technician E-5 pay grade
Also known as: geek in front of a computer, never saw combat, probably 5 pay grade means way more money than we pay the men and women who have actually put their lives on the line in this misbegotten, illegal war.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:03 pmWow, Steve just tied illegal immagrants to terrorists!
Crazy man.
The terrorists are way smarter than that. They come here legally on work or school visas. They act like us. They blend in. They are smart and educated. They aren’t out picking strawberries.
Moron.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:06 pmYanghole You buy that crap about 660,000 dead Iraqis? It was a stinking poll of about 12000 households and the that was projected onto the millions of Iraqis. That is called Science?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:07 pmBesides the reports blames 31% of that on The Coalition Forces.
Hmmmm who else could be killing Iraqis? Insurgents? Iraqis themselves.
Of that 31% I’m guessing about 30.999 % were insurgents. Sounds like progress to me.
So Spudge_Girl you like having hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our midst? Sounds safe and secure to me.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:10 pmWhere do you get that from anything I have said you crazy bastard?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:11 pmYou are kidding….. right?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:14 pmNo, where did I say? Point it out. Let’s see it.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:15 pmSteve, You are a typical dittohead. You believe (and repeat) every Republican catch phrase, buzzword, and talking point. WAKE UP and open your eyes to what’s really happening in Iraq and the rest of the civilized world. We are NOT going to have “victory” because there is NO reasonable definition of “victory” coming from our “leader”. We are INCREASING the terrorists rolls on a daily basis because of our inane policies toward the Muslim areas of the world. We are led by an arrogant idiot that refuses to change his course even in the face of incontrivertable evicdence that the “course” is fatally wrong. George Bush is destroying the America I’ve known and loved for more than 50 years (including my time in the US Navy during the Vietnam “war”). I want a government that will lead us to fight for real freedom, and real independence and I’m SICK and TIRED of hearing how people who don’t agree with Bush “love terrorists” and “hate America”. btw…thanks to all of you guys and girls out there who care enough about what is happening to speak out.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:15 pmBush will dismiss the report as “not credible.”
October 12th, 2006 at 8:18 pmLast night Steve wrote that what we call torture he calls college frat initiation. Someone replied asking if he was a sadomasochist. I don’t know about sado, but judging from the beating he is taking here Steve sure is a masochist
October 12th, 2006 at 8:20 pmThat is where I tied it together.
Did you see this story 2 weeks ago?
The terrorist was last seen in Mexico, where, on Nov. 1, 2004, he allegedly hijacked a Piper PA Pawnee cropduster from Ejido Queretaro near Mexicali to transport a nuclear weapon and nuclear equipment into the U.S., according to Paul Williams, a former FBI consultant and author of “The Dunces of Doomsday.”
“He is an American and a friend of Muhammad Atta, who led 9/11 attacks five years ago,” said Dawood. “We call him ‘Jaffer al Tayyar’ (Jafer the Pilot); he is very brave and intelligent. (President) Bush is aware that brother Adnan has smuggled deadly materials inside America from the Mexican border. Bush is silent about him, because he doesn’t want to panic his people. Sheik Osama bin Laden has completed his cycle of warnings. You know, he is man of his words, he is not a politician; he always does what he says. If he said it many times that Americans will see new attacks, they will definitely see new attacks. He is a real mujahid. Americans will not win this war, which they have started against Muslims. Americans are the biggest supporters of the biggest terrorist in the world, which is Israel.”
None of the things bluedog laid out would prevent this.
Justthetruth do you really think we are doing things the same way as we did on day one in Iraq? Do you not think our commanders have made many adjustments? This stay the course label is bogus. We are always adapting and trying new things….. only a complete idiot revists failure.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:23 pmRealScientist wanna suck my thumb? hmmm left or right? LOL
October 12th, 2006 at 8:24 pmBush won’t read the report (well, he never reads anything, so what I mean is that he won’t bother to pretend to read the report). Tony Snow will say that the report is working its way towards the President’s desk. Tony will explain that it takes time for this kind of report to work its way through “channels”. Either the report will simply never arrive and a new report will be commissioned (from the “right” people), or it will be “edited” on its way up the chain so that by the time it reaches Bush it will say just what Bush wants to hear. Mark my words, this is exactly what they did with Abu Ghraib.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:25 pmI’m waiting for Steve to show us where I said that I like “having hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our midst?”
Besides wouldn’t that number be 11 million undocumented people.
I am no more scare of an undocumented person than I am documented ones. Take a trip through South Central Los Angeles some day and you will know just what I mean.
If the American leaders from Federal down to City can’t stop street gangs in our country, how can we expect for them to stop all the terrorists in another country.
And my dad was a LA Sherriff for 36 years, just ask him about the gang problems in the US.
Hello strawman. *BOOOOOM* “Oh crap strawman is dead again.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:26 pmI just happen to think spending to change the culture that creates them is a good plan. Without hope what do these people look forward to? They are lied to about what happens when they die in battle or blow themselves up. This culture that breeds these soulless individuals is the real threat.
Yes. That culture cannot be changed by house to house battle. Such tactics only cause the culture to grow. It’s like fighting cancer by opening the body up on the table for four years, cutting out one cell at a time. By the time you have “victory”, the body has been dead for two years and is completely consumed with the cancer you were trying to remove. You’d better find a way to attack the systemic cause.
So, you’ve identified the need. It’s your solution that is totally wacked.
Spending money to deal with the systemic problem basically amounts to a great deal of intelligence work combined with targeted military action. It should be carried out in areas that are breeding grounds for terrorism. Your solution is to continue mired in a civil war in a country that was not a breeding ground for terrorism.
And no, spudge_boy said nothing to suggest that he liked the US to be filled with undocumented illegal immigrants. I’m trying my best to give you benefit of the doubt, but you need to stop spinning nonsense and pay attention to what people are really saying.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:26 pmWanna provide a link to your source their Stevey?
Who wants to bet on Fox News, Washington Times or The National Review?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:28 pmWell maybe if your Dad was a good sherriff we wouldn’t have those gangs huh?
How many people died under his administration?
Yes I’m just being an ass but If you look past the sarcasm you might see my point.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:29 pmThere is hell and then there is the worse place the bushs and bakers are going.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:29 pmWhat Spudge did say was I tied illegal immigration to terrorist. Implying that illegal immigrants were all farm hads picking strawberries. And of the millions of illegals that are here none of them could be terrorist? I was asking if he felt safe having all of those undocumented people in country?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:33 pmSteve #140
“He is an American and a friend of Muhammad Atta, who led 9/11 attacks five years ago,â€
I guess if he’s an American, then he is not an undocumented illegal immigrant, right?
And again, where did spudge say he would like “having hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our midst?â€
October 12th, 2006 at 8:34 pmWe must stay the course my fellow friends. George talks to God, and God is saying to stay the course. No, George Bush is not a mental patient. One poster mentioned this. Ha! Ha! The Devil is corrupting your mind, and our minds. Yes, the cost will be high but we must all collectively pay the high cost.
Eventually, our fabulous congressional representatives WILL pay the ultimate price, too–fallen children. We must realize, though, that the children of our fabulous congressional representatives can’t march off to war until their million dollar trust funds are in order. Some folks just don’t get it! That’s why only .001% of our fabulous congressional representatives have children serving in the military.
They can’t hire some Mickey Mouse lawyer when there’s million dollar trust funds for their children. Selecting $400 an hour lawyers takes time. Lots of time. Lots of time. Lots of time. Luckily, most of us don’t have to worry about million dollar trust funds, so we can send our children off to Iraq. Bless us.
Being rich, powerful, and affluent Washington power brokers has responsibilities. Fabulous million dollar trust funds are important, so sending their children to Iraq is not a top priority. Getting elected is a top priority. Getting money from wealthy lobbyists is a top priority. Sending their children to Iraq is NOT a top priority. Bless them!
Our fabulous president would not lie to us. He is a man of God. Bless him! Stay the course!
John
October 12th, 2006 at 8:34 pmOctober 12th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Steve…”This stay the course label is bogus. We are always adapting and trying new things….. only a complete idiot revists failure. ”
You know, this “Stay The Course” thing originated in the mind of the real complete idiot…GWB. And I must ask you Steve, what is victory to you? How will we know when we’ve achieved it? Do you remember our original goals? To rid Iraq of WMD! Nothing about this war has made sense since day one. No WMDs, the Iraqis did not attack us on 9/11, Iraq was not a harborer of terrorists, and no one knows WHO we are fighting in Iraq from day to day. The whole mess is a quagmire that is pulling the name of our great country down in the eyes of the entire world. Please wake up Steve…please.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:36 pm#151 Best comment yet, Steve. Perfect summary of everything you have upstairs.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:38 pmI didn’t say my dad was THE Sherriff. I said he was a Sherriff.
The problem with gangs cannot be solved at the end of a gun either. It is a social/economic problem. Just like terrorism. Once again, you need to look deeper at problems than “lets kill them” lets put them in jail”
We need solutions.
And while you sit there being an ass, another US soldier probably died because of a failed policy you are trying to prove works.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:39 pmOk maybe it worked this time if not it is from WorldNetDaily
Unlike some I gather news from multiple sources from all kinds of prespectives and then I make up my mind what to think.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:40 pmI am a creature of logic.
Nice to get a good laugh every once in awhile. :)
October 12th, 2006 at 8:41 pmSteve is this or is this not your quote?