Snow on Iraq: ‘I Don’t Know’ If We Are Winning
Snow on Iraq: ‘I Don’t Know’ If We Are Winning
Sen. John Warner (R-VA), one of President Bush’s staunchest allies, now says we are moving “sideways” and “backwards” in Iraq. Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) agrees and says we need to find a way out.
During today’s White House press conference, Tony Snow was asked a simple question about Iraq: “Are we winning?” Here was Snow’s response:
QUESTION: Just a simple question: Are we winning?
SNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?
The fact is, in taking on the war on terror — no, let me put it this way: The president’s made it obvious we’re going to win. And that means ultimately providing an Iraq that is safe, secure and an ally in the war on terror. And at any given time, as you’ve seen in previous wars, there are going to be spikes in violence.
More than 53 American soldiers have died in Iraq this month already. Things are going so badly that even Tony Snow, who is paid to spin the news in the most positive light possible for the administration, can’t claim that the United States is winning.
UPDATE: Carpetbagger Report digs up this Bush quote, from 12/18/05:
And for every terrorist working to stop freedom in Iraq, there are many more Iraqis and Americans working to defeat them. My fellow citizens: Not only can we win the war in Iraq, we are winning the war in Iraq.
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No one knows if we are winning. We are fighting a tactic, not a specific enemy that is easy to identify.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:43 pm#1 Mission accomplish?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:47 pm#1 “We are fighting a tactic, not a specific enemy that is easy to identify.” Right!, acctually we’re creating enermies in Iraq.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:50 pmOkay, spikes in violence are one thing, but that implies that there are also DIPS in violence, too. Iraq has seen nothing but steadily increasing violence month after month.
And, following ForTruth’s tack, one cannot ‘win’ against an idea.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:50 pm[...] Original post by Judd Read More… [...]
October 16th, 2006 at 2:51 pmSNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?
Geez, that’s the same question we’ve been asking! There are no guideposts for winning an occupation; plus with the socio-ethnic factors in play before bush invaded, it’s all that can be done to stave off civil war. is that winning, not having Sunni v. Shiite conflict for x many years after toppling the old order? Why doesn’t snow ask bush, it’s his lousy boss that’s the one who keeps asserting we’re “winning.”
October 16th, 2006 at 2:51 pmOh my gosh, yangho, are you still on that “Mission Accomplished” crap? What was that, three years ago?
Ask any one of the sailors on the USS Lincoln, the Mission Accomplished sign was for their ship – for their crew – for completing their mission. It wasn’t a broad statement about the war in Iraq. Bush has always said that this war would be long and tough.
Get over it.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:51 pmSnow. What a freaking joke. The guy is hardly human.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:51 pmSNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?
Mr. Snow, that is a really good question. When will the Bush Administration actually answer it?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:51 pmAsk any one of the sailors on the USS Lincoln, the Mission Accomplished sign was for their ship – for their crew – for completing their mission. It wasn’t a broad statement about the war in Iraq. Bush has always said that this war would be long and tough.
Comment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
Geez, Mark, you really know how to parrot the talking point lies of the administration.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:53 pm“I don’t know if we are winning.” You’ll hear that again on Election night as the GOP drops off the radar. (Thank God).
October 16th, 2006 at 2:53 pm#7: Bullsh!t. What, they completed their mission of pulling out into the harbor so that Bush could have his photo-op?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:54 pm#10
“Lies of the administration”?
How about words from the sailors themselves.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:54 pm“Mission Accomplished†crap? Yep.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:55 pmSafe to say if he doesn’t know, then we are not winning. Everything indicates that hell hole Bush created with his dead-wrong intelligence and neocon plan of destruction is getting worse.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:56 pmThe fact is, in taking on the war on terror — no, let me put it this way:
No, it doesn’t matter how you put it. You don’t have a g’dam answer…
The president’s made it obvious we’re going to win.
He has? All I hear is stay the freakin course, blah blah ad nauseum!
And that means ultimately providing an Iraq that is safe, secure and an ally in the war on terror.
So how’s that doin?
And at any given time, as you’ve seen in previous wars, there are going to be spikes in violence.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:57 pmYeah.
#12
You’re an idiot. The ship had just returned from a tour of duty.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:57 pm“How do we define winning?” should have been part of the planning for any proposed attack on Iraq from the very beginning. So, Mr. Snow – go ask your boss/idol that question since he hasn’t answered it when we progressives have asked.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:58 pm#17, and you’re a troll.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:58 pmMr. Glesny
October 16th, 2006 at 2:59 pmI don’t remember how many times as we led up to the invasion, every admin shill saying, CAKEWALK, CANDY AND FLOWERS, etc, etc, etc.
To tie Iraq to the overall war on terrer doesn’t cut it.
There weren’t WMDs, There wasn’t an Alqaeda presence, it was all BS.
The worst part is – You know that.
Sigh. Looks like we have our “troll of the day” and his name is Mark Glesne.
Mark, it is well-known that nothing happens by mistake in Bush’s photo ops, which are arranged by Karl Rove and implemented by experts from Fox News. Don’t you know that Karl Rove himself has publicly lamented the Mission Accomplished sign as his worst PR mistake for the administration? Why would Rove admit this if the sign were the sole responsibility of the crew? You don’t have a leg to stand on here.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:00 pm20 Millions to Celebrate Victory, crap too? Celebrate when ppl are still dying in Iraq. Use this money to buy armo jackets for our troops.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:01 pm#20
Okay RUCerious, find me the quotes from the Bush administration saying the war in Iraq would be a “cakewalk”.
Then we’ll talk.
P.S. If you want to know more about Iraq’s WMDs, I suggest you read General Sada’s book “Saddam’s Secrets”.
Unless, of course, you claim to know more about the inner workings of Saddam’s regime than one of his top military advisors.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:02 pmWell, since Mark has devolved to name calling, I’ll come right back at him:
Mark, you are a liar.
Another pathetic excuse for a human being.
Wait, that isn’t name calling! It is just the truth!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:02 pmMark Glesne
Do you really believe that The Commander In Chief and his administrative staff didn’t have any idea about that sign, at the very least giving it tacit approval if not actively seeing to it that it was there? Don’t you consider Bush arriving in his “combat suit” as a means of connecting himself and his policies with that sign?
October 16th, 2006 at 3:03 pm‘How do you define winning?’….hey snowjob, DON’T answer a question WITH a question. JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION your not on fox now. The correct answer is NO we are NOT winning. 660,000 dead and no end in sight. Taxpayers are paying this lieing fool….sick.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:03 pm#19
I’ll take that as your way of admitting that the ship returned from a tour of duty, unlike your claim that they just pulled out of port for a photo op.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:03 pmThe photo above WITHOUT Photoshop is better than this! Wow.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:03 pm“Your courage — your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other — made this day possible,…The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done.”
Hey Glesny – Here’s his freakin speech on board the Lincoln…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:04 pmWas he talking about the transition from dictatorship to democracy on board the carrier?
I didn’t CLAIM anything, I just made that up, like a troll does. Hey I could be a troll on a right-wing blog!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:06 pmNO the Bush Regime is NOT winning anything in Iraq! Time to pull all the troops out and for Dubya to be impeached for war crimes!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#25
Of course he knew about the sign. Who said he didn’t?
In fact, the administration actually printed the sign ::GASP::… because the Navy ASKED them to.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:07 pmAdelman, 2/2002. “Liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk.”
October 16th, 2006 at 3:07 pmMar. 16, 2003Dick Cheney
“My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . [in] weeks rather than months.” –on NBC’s Meet the Press
re: mission accomplished banner:
If former bush accolyte Bob Woodward is to be believed, bush’s speech on the USS Lincoln was going to actually pronnounce mission accomplished, but was removed at the last minute; the banner went up with full administration knowledge, consent and approval.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003190239
http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/10/3/85637/5913
October 16th, 2006 at 3:07 pmHow do you define winning?
I don’t know, Mr. Snow, you tell us. You are the ones who insist the US is indeed winning the “war on terror” and that Iraq is central to that effort.
So, if it is uncertain to you whether or not the US is “winning” in Iraq, where does that leave the greater “war on terror”? Is the US “winning” the of-cited “war on terror” or not? Can you tell us please? Can you tell the families who have lost loved ones in this shameful military (mis)adventure?
October 16th, 2006 at 3:08 pmMark Glesne- yeah, the sign was put up because the ship just returned from a tour of duty. Man you are dumb. The sign was put up by the administration, they even admitted it! As for “getting over it” why don’t you and your ilk get over the fact that Clinton hasn’t been president for six years. Georgie cant’ seem to take responsibility for his mistakes, just blames everything on Clinton.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:08 pmGlesny, have you read the IAEAA report?
October 16th, 2006 at 3:08 pm#7 Mark_Glesne
Ask any one of the sailors on the USS Lincoln, the Mission Accomplished sign was for their ship – for their crew – for completing their mission. It wasn’t a broad statement about the war in Iraq. Bush has always said that this war would be long and tough.
Oh my gosh, Mark Glesne, read this from CNN 4/30/04 http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/30/speech.anniversary/ :
…when questioned about the “Mission Accomplished” banner, Bush said it was put up by the ship’s crew. But the White House later conceded it produced and paid for the banner as part of the president’s visit.
Read the whole article. It’s great. He was even saying back then “We’re making progress.”
He also said, “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”
When did you hear him say the war would be long and tough?
And this “…there are no longer torture chambers or rape rooms or mass graves in Iraq. As a result, a friend of terror has been removed and now sits in a jail.”
Actually there are torture chambers, but now they’re all over the world and run by the CIA. Rape rooms? I think Abu Ghraib would qualify. Mass graves? Lots of them in Iraq. More every day.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#29
Don’t cherry pick. The Commander in Chief also said:
“We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We’re bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous.”
and
“The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done.”
etc. etc.
Read the entire speech here.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:09 pmI’ll take that as your way of admitting that the ship returned from a tour of duty, unlike your claim that they just pulled out of port for a photo op.
Comment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 3:03 pm
ooh, touche Mark. That one really stung. Not. Just a diversion from the greater point that you are a liar for the regime.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:09 pmRumsfeld: “Six days? Six weeks? I doubt six months.”
October 16th, 2006 at 3:09 pmMark: Ahh the new troll to smack down…
Mr Preznit is nothing but photo ops, and one liners.. Stay the course Mark! No matter how stupid you look to the world.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#33
Uhh, we have been greeted as liberators for the most part. Have you walked the streets of Iraq lately?
Of course not 100% of the people agree with us, but even those who fought against us in the invasion are willing to work with us.
Seen it first hand, not from the couch in my living room.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:11 pmGlesny, you worm.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:13 pmYour original post was, and I quote
“Mission Accomplished sign was for their ship – for their crew – for completing their mission. It wasn’t a broad statement about the war in Iraq.”
BULLSHHHHHHIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!
You’re an idiot. The ship had just returned from a tour of duty.
Comment by Mark+Glesne
And Bush had to be begged not to use the words in his speech that day (according to Bob Woodward’s State of Denial)
Look it up, fool.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:13 pmFolks, let’s not engage this Glesny clown any further.
Wait, no, let’s keep poking him with our pointy sticks! I have a feeling there is no limit to what a fool he will make of himself here.
Glesny, nobody is buying it. I doubt that even most Bush supporters would buy what you are saying. Why don’t you get back to reading WorldNetDaily.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:13 pm#43 – then why are there polls that say 83% of the Iraqis want us out NOW>>>
October 16th, 2006 at 3:14 pmAll right, I’ve stirred the hornets nest enough for one day. Haha! Time to get back to work.
Just remember, there is a reason that at the end of the Bush administration you will have only elected two Democrats into the White House in close to 40 years!!
Any way, have a great day liberals!!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:15 pmRead the entire speech here.
Comment by Mark+Glesne
Read Woodward, dolt. He said the words were removed at the last minute, after Bush was warned off using them. But I don’t expect you to check on something that might shatter your precious talking point.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:15 pm#7 Nice use of revisionist history there. Remember the president hates revisionist history. So lets get in our way back machines and go back to 2003 and note that at the time the president proclaimed an end to major combat operations in Iraq. Regardless of what you believe and what the spin meisters have told you, the whole “Mission Accomplished” concept came right from the white house, along with the myth of the president as a macho flier. Note to recent history where they now say they worked to get the words mission accomplished out of his speech, but were unsuccessful with getting the banners down.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:16 pm#39 – so funny to read again. Thank.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:16 pmHmm.. Is anyone else concerned that they aren’t talking so much about freedom for the Iraqi people anymore, but they seem very concerned about making them “secure” and an “ally against terror”?
Or is Bush hoping this will be another South Korea and Japan where we’ve been their so long that they didn’t want us to leave because then they’d have to provide for their own defense?
October 16th, 2006 at 3:16 pmOf course he knew about the sign. Who said he didn’t?
In fact, the administration actually printed the sign ::GASP::… because the Navy ASKED them to.
Comment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 3:07 pm
Man, this twisted logic must set an all time record as a non-denial denial of responsibility.
Put down the crack pipe, Mark. Nobody cares who actually printed the sign. Why don’t you blame the sign making company contracted to do the work? It would make just as much sense. Even better, why don’t you blame it on the historical development of the english words “mission” and “accomplished”? It’s the dictionary writers fault!!!!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:18 pmRealScientist and PLC #’s 24 &25
Mark Glesne is intellectually and morally dishonest…
…a criminal Bushite cultist…
…and deserves no better than to be totally ignored…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:18 pmAll right, I’ve stirred the hornets nest enough for one day. Haha! Time to get back to work.
Another squat-and-trot troll, who can’t be bothered to actually research anything: Yeah, get back to work;Condi wants a footrub.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:19 pm…like Tony Snowjob…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:19 pmSNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?
The fact is, in taking on the war on terror — no, let me put it this way: The president’s made it obvious we’re going to win. And that means ultimately providing an Iraq that is safe, secure and an ally in the war on terror. And at any given time, as you’ve seen in previous wars, there are going to be spikes in violence.
One moment of a man clearly stating the obvious truth…then slipping into the programmed talking points. Somebody must have watered down his kool-aid this morning.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:20 pm#27 Mark_Glesne
I’ll take that as your way of admitting that the ship returned from a tour of duty, unlike your claim that they just pulled out of port for a photo op.
Mark, let’s deal in fact here. You say and believe anything you want, but it doesn’t alter the facts, and you can look them up just as easily as we can. And, believe me, we can look them up really quickly, so your BS doesn’t fly here.
The ship had just gotten back but hadn’t been allowed to pull into port (dockside), yet. Bush’s photo op posers had them keep the ship out far enough so he could land on it, rather than wait an hour or so for it to dock and walk up the gangplank. They also had the ship turn in a direction that would keep the cameras from showing how close to shore they were. All of it posed. All of it a photo op.
And I’d love to hear what the crew had to say, because they’re the ones who witnessed all that posing and they had to sit out there for his stinking photo op while their loved ones stood and waited on the pier to see them after many months of being apart. I was stationed on a carrier for three years and I guarantee you that I and everyone I knew would have been pissed!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:20 pmHere it comes folks, our troll du jour will soon start listing his military history, his accomplishments, and how many SUV’s, Harleys, pretty wives and big barbecue cookers he has, all because of G.Dubious…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:20 pmSounds familiar, eh? What was the name of last weeks pseudo-soldier, Daryll, no wait, it was “A Real American” …..yeah, right,…..
(choke, gag, puke)
Mark:
Seen it first hand my ass. I don’t believe you for a second.. Another troll coming here claiming combat vet? The media doesnt rarely show whats going on outside the “green zone”, so it must not be pretty.
Perhaps early on we were greeted as liberators, then once the Iraqi people and American people caught on to the war being about OIL and not WMD..
My you are stupid, put down the koolaid, the bible, and your NRA membership card.
“Those who fought against us, are willing to work with us” HAHA.. 53 soldiers dead so far this month, and we’re just halfway through. I guess thats one way to work with the “invaders”.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:21 pmThe ship did not pull back out of port for the photo op, though it was widely reported at the time that the ship held out to see so that the president could make his carrier landing entrance rather than make a helacopter trip.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:22 pmI get such a kick out of this web site.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#53, RealScientist: Yeah, doesn’t the Navy always call the White House for their big printing jobs?
October 16th, 2006 at 3:22 pmJust got off the phone with one of the sailors who was on the USS Lincoln who said, “Thanks for calling and letting me clear this one up. The “Mission Accomplished” banner on our ship referred to the entire Iraq conflict. Not just our mission. Feel free to ask any other of my shipmates. They’ll all agree with me.”
October 16th, 2006 at 3:22 pmWhoops, had to post once more!
#60
I know you’re not in the business of actually believing the troops (let alone supporting our mission), but you don’t have to believe I have served in combat and continue to serve my country… just understand that, in fact, I have.
Adios Moonbats!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:27 pmOf course you can win against an idea!
Just look at the War On Drugs!
Oh.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:28 pmOohrah, hubris, they’ll all LIE TOO. Excellent. No one ever accused swabbies of having the courage of the TRUTH. They’d rather bootlick a traitor.
“SNOW: How do you define winning?”
Another graduate from the Ron Dumbsfeld School of Supercilious Speech.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:30 pmSnow, “I don’t know anything, I’m just a puppet.”
October 16th, 2006 at 3:30 pmpost it
October 16th, 2006 at 3:30 pmou spin me right round, baby
October 16th, 2006 at 3:30 pmright round like a record, baby
Right round round round
You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round
“you don’t have to believe I have served in combat and continue to serve my country… just understand that” –Mark Glesne
Just understand that you lie, and we’ve all heard your lies plenty.
‘Served in combat’ turns out to mean that you drove a forklift in the Phillipines.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:32 pmSomeone should point him to this document:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html
Part 1 of Part I: Victory in Iraq Defined
October 16th, 2006 at 3:33 pmbarfly
“Squat and trot trolls” – ROFLMAO!!
How come all these trolls who claimed to have served in Iraq are not currently serving – maybe if they were, we could send a few others home for their R&R instead of extending their tours indefinitely.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:34 pmIf this war is against the emotion terror we will only win when the emotion fear and/or terror shows-up on the deck of the USS Mission Accomplished to sign a surrender agreement. If that doesn’t happen we are in an Orwellian perpetual war.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:38 pmComment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
October 16th, 2006 at 3:41 pmComment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 3:27 pm
How long does it take this asswipe to clear out?
[...] African American Political Pundit says Ok here we go with more White House bull. Now Bush’s “FOX News representative and hite House Press Sec.” Tony Snow says about Iraq: ‘I Don’t Know’ If We Are Winning [...]
October 16th, 2006 at 3:41 pmAdios Moonbats!
Comment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 3:27 pm
Hey, I thought you already said you were leaving!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:42 pmWell, that’s sure refreshing… Its now up to the White House Press Corps to come up with a winning strategy for the War on Terror…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:43 pmstop the madness NOW!
STEWART/COLBERT ‘08
October 16th, 2006 at 3:44 pmI wonder if Herr Snowball thinks we are all as dumb as Glesny
October 16th, 2006 at 3:45 pmHow long does it take this asswipe to clear out? Comment by RUCerious
I would guess it takes him about as long as it does for his idol/leader Bush to clear out of Iraq.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:46 pmWhat are the criteria for winning? How will we know? When everyone is dead? When Halliburton controls the government?
The violence and the number of dead is increasing horribly, both for Iraqis and for Americans – how can that ever be defined as making progress?
providing an Iraq that is safe, secure and an ally in the war on terror
October 16th, 2006 at 3:46 pmThat’s subjective and undefinable. Snow can’t dress this up any more – it’s a mess, it’s getting worse, and no improvement in sight.
Snow – the Fox propagandist – cannot clean this one.
From the Urban dictionary – No kidding
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glesny
1. glesny
A sexy girl who i would do anything for her
Ewwww…Marky!
October 16th, 2006 at 3:48 pmSnow on Iraq: ‘I Don’t Know’ If We Are Winning” but President Bush has a really cool bike and he lets me sit at the “cool table” during lunch.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:50 pm“Mission Accomplished†sign … for … the … ship?!!?? Come on now. Nobody _outside_ the US believes that a split second. POTUS coming in in combat gear? ZOMG! This spelled ‘STAGED FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE’ from geostationary orbit. Really…. one would like to hope people would be able to parse mediatic events 60 years after Leni Reifelstahl’s movies aired.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:50 pmWe will know that Iraq is free when there is a world ceremony crowning the sadist George W Bush Emporer of all the world and all the planets and all life forms. If this event doesn’t take place, then it is certainly President Bill Clinton’s fault.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:53 pmIn a “war” on “terror” you tell me. You guys came up with this crap. Surely you would know if you’re winning or not. I wish Bush would say those words himself. Perfect sound byte fodder.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:53 pmTony Snow, a 51 yr old press secretary …..isn’t that a bit old and especially for one that still wears kneepads ?
October 16th, 2006 at 4:04 pmknow you’re not in the business of actually believing the troops (let alone supporting our mission), but you don’t have to believe I have served in combat and continue to serve my country… just understand that, in fact, I have.
Comment by Mark+Glesne
So Mark here would have us believe that all the troops think this invasion and occupation is a good thing because Mark is a combat veteran and he thinks it is. Oh the ego. Suprised that they had a helmet to fit your swollen melon into.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:06 pm#88
Tony Snow, a 51 yr old press secretary …..isn’t that a bit old and especially for one that still wears kneepads ?
Comment by km4
Don’t forget the burpy bib.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:10 pm“Ask any one of the sailors on the USS Lincoln, the Mission Accomplished sign was for their ship – for their crew – for completing their mission. It wasn’t a broad statement about the war in Iraq. Bush has always said that this war would be long and tough.” – Mark Glesne (October 16, 2006 @ 2:53 pm)
Sorry Mark, you are, what we commie liberal hippy peaceniks like to refer to as – wrong and it’s General Wesley Clark that’s calling you on it. Much like a lot of people on your side of the political spectrum, you decided to just accept the PartyLine and not do any actual research. No cookie for you!
TIME Magazine – Bush’s Bannergate
But I assume you won’t accept an article from a commie liberal pinko magazine like TIME either.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:12 pmTony wet his pants when he rode in the Presidential Suburpin. He go to play with the closed circuit satellite NORAD tv, and order around secret service people, and ring the driver several times, with no actual orders.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:17 pmBig oil controls Bush, and Bush is “in control” of the nation, so big oil is likely calling the shots. They are likely to have started the wars to create conflict in the middle east to give an excuse to exercise their monopoly over oil prices and gouge consumers at the pump. The incentive is even better when Dick Cheney orders bombing strikes of buildings in Iraq and Afghanistan, and employs his fraud scheme building reconstruction company to “rebuild” Iraq. Come on, guys, admit it. You screwed up way too big, and now nobody trusts you anymore. Admit defeat. You’ve completely lost control over oil in the Middle East. Reinstall Saddam Hussein, apologize, step down, and cut your nation’s losses. The US can never again be in control of the world because of any control over oil. You really screwed up, you cowardly criminal felons.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:18 pmYou know, If you do not know if you are winning or not you are eithe rina boxing match or you are losing. Since we are the ones who are judging if we are winning or not, our not knowing the answer to that question actually indicates that we are probably losing. In which case Bush & Co would welcome a Democrat controlled government so he can blame them for screwing up his good work.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:18 pmThe anger in you liberals is overwhelming. It is truly hard to believe that anyone would fight for the right to let folks like you spew lies and twist truths. But the dedicated folks that serve do it anyway. So go ahead and get the anger out. Bash away! I think I’ll go on over to Air America and see whats happening. Oops, never mind.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:19 pmThe Johnson administration and the Nixon admistration both claimed we were winning the Vietnam War too, making the world safe for Democracy, right up to the day the last helicopter lifted off the embassy roof in Saigon leaving over 50,000 American soldiers dead in its wake. The number in Iraq is rising and there is no “light at the end of the tunnel.” The rhetoric is exactly the same. P.S. The one lesson the Bush administration has learned from Vietnam is to avoid a draft at all cost. No draft, no protests.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:23 pmI bet you folks believe Bush orchestrated 911 too. Hop on over to st911.org and join in the psychosis there!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:24 pmMark+Glesne mans a window at a MacD’s on I95 – he serves at least some of his country. He apparently rooms with A-R-A.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:24 pm#95,
October 16th, 2006 at 4:26 pmYes the people of the armed forces are only neo-conservatives that think like you and they all support this administration wholeheartedly……where do people like you come from?
How do you define winning? um… when you win?
October 16th, 2006 at 4:28 pmThe arrogance of neoconservatives is overwhelming. It is truly hard to believe that anyone would believe that there aren’t and never have been Democrats/progressives who fought for the rights of Americans to express their varied opinions. But the dedicated folks that serve do it anyway, even when the civilian leaders lied about the mission, did not listen to the counsel of the military leaders, do not supply the troops well, and don’t take good care of the wounded troops who return to the US with physical and psychological scars. So go ahead, neoconservatives, and get your greedy needs met at the expense of America as a whole. You’ll have your just rewards as a result.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:29 pmMoonbat+hunter
No we don’t think the bush crew orchestrated 9/11, they are FAR too incompetent to plan, and implement a devious plot. But we do know they pretty much allowed it to happen. Sitting in their ass and blaming Clinton for every failure is about the only thing this administration is good at.
Isn’t it sad that Clinton hasn’t been in office 6 years, and he must still be president, as he still gets all the blame.
BTW 911 is the number you call for help, which you’ll be doing Nov 8!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:30 pmJust to reiterate – the “Mission Accomplished” sign that was posted during the ‘photo-op’ for Bush, was indeed just that… Part of a staged event, and if Mark would take a step back and view the event as a whole, he would notice that Bush gave a speech that day from the carrier, stating that all major military operations had ended in Iraq. So even though the ship may have been at the end of a tour of duty, it was just coincidental, and Bush used it to his advantage.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:31 pmWaltTheMan, have you served your country in any shape or form? I bet you are one of those that cries “baby killer” upon a soldiers return from service to their country. You enjoy the freedoms that come from just living in this great country all the while never giving of yourself. All you libs take for granted what those who serve provide for you, then bash them for their service. Very PATHETIC! Some day if you were ever to know oppression and lose your freedoms, you can call on Chavez or maybe even France to bail you out. Good luck with that! Save the world with cheap oil, cheese and tarts!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:35 pm#95 Moonbat Hunter
The anger in you liberals is overwhelming. It is truly hard to believe that anyone would fight for the right to let folks like you spew lies and twist truths. But the dedicated folks that serve do it anyway.
Oh no, the moonbat hunter tracked us down and found us. And now, predictably, we’re “angry” because we dared to tell a troll who’s full of crap that he’s full of crap. What lies are we spewing? Please point them out to us. It’s not enough to just say we’re spewing lies. You actually have to name at least one of them.
Those of us who did serve don’t find it amazing at all that anyone would fight for our right to speak out, especially when they know it’s chickenhawks who never served that lied them into a war and are trying desperately to take away everyone’s freedom of speech.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:40 pm# 99, we are the majority. Thats where we come from. You are the fringe. That is why you never consistanly win elections. Oh sure, you can pluck a few here and there with your “anything but Bush” slogans and scare tactics, but when it counts, America is centrist to moderately conservative and the left is a dying segment of the populous. At least the Moonbat version of the left that lives here is a dying breed. Thank goodness for that!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:40 pmMoonbat
Go spew your BS somewere else. Just because one has not served does not make them any less of a patriot, or someone who doesn’t appreciate sacrfices some have made in more honorable wars.
And by your own measure, look at Bush and Cheney.. AWOL, and 5 deferrments!! Kiss my Red White and Blue ass!
Now STFU! and go clean your gun or something.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:44 pmSave the world with cheap oil, cheese and tarts!
Comment by Moonbat+Hunter
Three positive things in this world and you have to bash them. Just like a Neo-con with balls that are just a size bigger than his pea-brain. Rather do it with guns, bullets and bombs, huh? Watch it on t.v and choke the chicken. What’s funny you still are bashing France when they were right in their stance that there were no WMDs. Don’t you hate it when the people you believe in most are wrong and the French are right. That must really get to you.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:46 pmI posted this the other day but I don’t give a sh!t’….
Sun Tzu
#1)Hold out baits to entice the enemy.
#2)If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
#3)If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.
#4)If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
#5)Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
Finally….
“The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to Win or Lose.â€
The terrorists and insurgents are doing exactly what Sun Tzu said and We are not doing what he said…Bin Laden read up on Ho Chi Min and HO Chi Min read on Sun Tzu
October 16th, 2006 at 4:47 pmWhen we Lose Iraq, I want everyone to remember that it wasn’t from bad planning, or bad intelligence; It was from bad execution and bad management. The President of the United Stated failed us in Iraq.
moonbat,
Sorry I think the progressive left leaning group is growing, its your racist, lying, christian hate groups that are losing power.
You must be scared, you’re here spewing your shit. IF things were so great with your “homebase” why come here to post your idiotic comments?
October 16th, 2006 at 4:47 pmI’ve never been to this site before and you “open minded” folks will probably ban me, but thats what one would expect from you when opposition to your views are put forth. That and pure anger and hatred attached to those who do not share your viewpoint. IE: Mark Glesne. By the way Mark, ‘Moonbat is hilarious!!! Well, I am here to stay if you neighborly folks will have me. I’m sure to irritate, but if I can just change “one” of you, then my job will be accomplished!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:47 pmNo, #112, it’s only the right-wing blog sites that ban opposing views, here you only get banned if you’re really profane or something. See, there IS a difference between progressives and assho – I mean Republicans.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:52 pm“but if I can just change “one†of you, then my job will be accomplished!”
Like your tactics have any hope of changing anyone’s mind!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:53 pmMoonbat Hunter
You think neoconservatives only win elections because they reflect American values more than progressives. So, LYING by neoconservatives has nothing to do with it? Besides, is winning elections the only criteria for moral values?
October 16th, 2006 at 4:53 pmIt makes the country is great. Soviet soldiers committed crime of rape, murder, loot in Prussian, japanses in Nanking. Those govt still keep silent. We are different. If the soldiers committed war-crime, they could go to jail.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:53 pm#107 Moonbat Hunter
we are the majority. Thats where we come from. You are the fringe.
POLL: Bush Disapproval Rating At 61 Percent, An All-Time High
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/16/cnn-poll-iraq/
Um, you were saying?
October 16th, 2006 at 4:54 pm#112. Mr. Moonbat Hunter apparently you haven’t been reading any polls lately. These are just in:
–64 percent disapprove of Bush’s handling of the war in Iraq.
– 70 percent of women and 58 percent of men now oppose the war in Iraq.
– 60 percent of Americans believe the situation with North Korea can be resolved using only economic and diplomatic measures.
– More than 70 percent of Americans believe the war in Iraq is making it harder for the United States to deal with North Korea.
I don’t see any Bush majority in any of these. My mind is wide open, how about yours?
October 16th, 2006 at 4:55 pm#111, I came here because I want the world to see you for the type of human being you truly are. I am neither racist, lying, or Christian. I do find it telling of you though, that you speak in such defining and demeaning terms.
# 108, While I do believe those who serve are true patriots, I also believe that those who blindly abuse them with blanket statements and generalizations are truely ungrateful for what they have!!
# 109, Three positive things, LOL. You appeasers would be screaming for those of us that would defend you from harm with physical force if it were required to save you.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:56 pmDont you realize that a sea change has been occurring? First James Baker, then a couple of Senators like Warner and Hagel, then the leak that old Father Bush hands are in dismay over the direction of the war in Iraq. Theyre pumping up a campaign to change course and do exactly what Murtha has been calling for, only none of them is being called a traitor or a member of the cut and run group, as Murtha and others were. But thats exactly what theyre proposing.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:59 pmJust watch as Bush himself starts to back-pedal, saying maybe if something isn’t working, we ought to change it. With that, “cut and run” suddenly goes down the drain. No “traitors” here anymore, even Bush when he says he’ll consider what Baker and his committee want to propose. I call them all “traitors” because I grieve for the good men and women already killed, and the others who still will be killed, while this sea change occurs.
We need to send President Bush, Laura Bush, the two Bush girls, Mr. Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Rove, maybe Denny Hastert and Joe Lieberman to the front lines, in appropriate early design bullet proof vests and ill-equipped Hummers, all to do what they’re suggesting. I love the columnists who suggest we can’t “cut and run” and suggest instead that we keep our young people in the military in harms way so they can be killed to correct those clowns’ mistakes. Maybe some of the other liars, too, could join the crew I have named above of first rate idiots who, along with the neocons we could add like Wolfowitz & Co. to the newly created battalion, to rectify the situation. Remember, needlessly killing our young people isn’t something we like to mention when proposing solutions about messes created by Bush & Co. like Iraq or Afghanistan; it’s all lofty ideas and solutions. The alternative is to let the locals solve their own problems and for our government to work on real strategic solutions to existing problems, like learning how to act like diplomats and working out real strategic solutions that don’t involve stupid loss of life. What’s really behind all this, if you really think about it, is oil and nothing more; no one would care a fig for any of this if it weren’t for the oil. Once we figure out how to divorce ourselves from using oil, these places will become minor players in world affairs.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:00 pmHey Moonbat, why would Bush insist that the 911 commission interview him with Cheney in the room and not under oath?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:03 pmYou appeasers would be screaming for those of us that would defend you from harm with physical force if it were required to save you.
Comment by Moonbat+Hunter
Please enlighten me and describe in detail the threat Iraq posed to the US, you, me or any American for that matter. What great threat did bushie save us from?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:04 pm# 118, I never said in any post here that the war in Iraq was popular. Typical liberal tactic to put words where they weren’t. I stated that America is centrist and moderately conservative! I read polls, do not take much stock in them as the tend to have greater margin of error that the pollsters would suggest. I mean if we are quoting polls here, Kerry should have blown Bush away based on the early exit polls put forth by most on election day 2004. Oh, but that was just another Liberal tactic to scare those who vote conservative away from the polls in an attempt to change the outcome of the election. You lost because America is centrist to moderately conservative. It is a fact. Learn to live with it and you will become less angry over tiime. It heals all wounds you know!
October 16th, 2006 at 5:04 pmComment by Mark+Glesne — October 16, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
“Ask any one of the sailors on the USS Lincoln, the Mission Accomplished sign was for their ship – for their crew – for completing their mission. It wasn’t a broad statement about the war in Iraq. Bush has always said that this war would be long and tough.Get over it.”
BUSH ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN May 1, 2003
“Major combat operations in Iraq have ended, In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”
Ari Fleischer, former White House press secretary
“We put it up. We made the sign. But I think it accurately summed up where we were at the time, ‘Mission Accomplished’ … the mission was to topple Saddam Hussein.”
You have no clue what you are talking about Mark…. You and Ari Fleischer need to figure out what the mission is now and what it was then and get your stories straight.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:05 pm#112 Moonbat Hunter
I’ve never been to this site before and you “open minded†folks will probably ban me, but thats what one would expect from you when opposition to your views are put forth.
That’s where you’re wrong. You go find me a right-wing blog that lets “liberals” post on it. There aren’t many. I don’t personally know of any. Powerwhine sure doesn’t let anyone from the left blog. But, nobody ever gets banned from here or any left-leaning blogs that I’ve ever heard of just for being a rightie. You’ll see. If you start getting really abusive, that’s a different story. But, just for having right-wing views? Nope, you won’t get banned.
Good luck changing any minds with all that ancient, recycled, weak right-wing trash talk. How about trying something new? Try putting together a logical argument supported by facts. You might actually engage in a civilized discussion that way.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:07 pm#97 the only person i have personally heard say that this aadministration orchestrated 911 was a local REPUBLICAN county board member. I tend to think that they are too incompetant to pull of something that big. But I also think that they are so incomeptant that somehting that big could only have happend on thier watch regardless of what president came before them.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:08 pmMark+Glesne is just a troll. throw a GOP talking point out there (”the Mission Accomplished sign referred to that ship’s mission!”), have it factually refuted, ignore it and move on to the next piece of crap. I feel sort of bad for the guy.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:08 pmWe progressives come here because we want the world to see BushCo for the type of human beings they truly are. They are not conservative, compassionate, or Christian.
Neoconservatives only believe those who agree with them are true patriots. We progressives believe that those who actively abuse the truth, the military, the Constitution, religion, and patriotism are truely dangerous for the country.
Neoconservatives scream when their greed and abuse of power are challenged and are all too willing to send those Americans willing to sacrifice their lives into harm’s way just to defend them from political and economic harm.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:11 pm‘I Don’t Know’ If We Are Winning
October 16th, 2006 at 5:14 pmWhat a cheap spin by you who claim to progressive thinking.
99% would have registered this as “‘I Don’t Know if We Are Winning” when all Snow said meant was that he does not what you meant exactly by winning. I wouldn’t trust my life and country to liars like you in think progress
#112 Moonbat Hunter
I’ve never been to this site before
So, who told you to come here? Just curious.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:14 pmListen, I do not blindly follow anyone. There are many things that Bush and other republican leaders across this country stand for that I disagree with. The border and illegal immigrtaion issue for one. I think we should be tougher on those sneaking into our country and taxing the system as they are. But what you folks stand for on the far left is much less appealing to me. Your stand on taxes, foreign policy, and also the border issue are way off for me.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:16 pmThe president’s made it obvious we’re going to win.
He’s made it obvious with a civil war and a revived Taliban? Huh?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:17 pmWhat a cheap spin by you who claim to progressive thinking.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pm99% would have registered this as “‘I Don’t Know if We Are Winning†when all Snow meant was that he does not KNOW what you meant exactly by winning. I wouldn’t trust my life and country to liars like you in think progress.
He said, “We’re making progress” and you make it look like he said exactly the opposite.
What a spin.
Moonbat Hunter
Is that a subsidiary of MoonbatPatrol?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pm#124. I’m not really sure what your beef is. You stated early that
But I point out that your majority is nowhere to be found and you pull out the slander brush. I have never stated to be liberal, conservative or other but you can blindly say it and that fills the void in you to be an ass.
You never did own up to the fact that “Mission Accomplished” was from the White House and not the USS Abraham Lincoln. that’s not anger or trying to shout you down. It’s simply a fact and as long as you ignore the fact your rants don’t hold any water.
You may be right that the country is centrist and moderately conservative. You are way off base if you think this administration is anywhere near that.
By the way I have served in the military and can kick this up a notch if you insist.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pmI mean if we are quoting polls here, Kerry should have blown Bush away based on the early exit polls put forth by most on election day 2004.
Comment by Moonbat+Hunter — October 16, 2006 @ 5:04 pm
Yes, especially a poll that has been for 230 years right within a percent of a point. Well, that is until 2004 when they were wrong by a margin of 2.7%. Sounds less like scare tactics and more like vote stealing tactics… well, to a logical person. So, you’re sure to miss it. I’m sure the math is a scare tactic for emotional folks like you.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pmAhmed Ismail
all Snow said meant was that he does not what you meant exactly by winning.
Bullsh–. Snow, just like the rest of BushCo, have been actively avoiding defining “victory”, “winning”, the goals, an end-point, or reasons for the war in Iraq from the beginning. This was more of Snow’s hired avoidance of answering the question, AGAIN! You are spinning even faster than Snow.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pmYour stand on taxes, foreign policy, and also the border issue are way off for me.
Comment by Moonbat+Hunter — October 16, 2006 @ 5:16 pm
So, while whining that it is not fair to paint you with a broad brush of Republican red, you go and paint us all with a very broad brush of liberal blue.
You just defined hypocrite with a great analogy.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:22 pmWhen will Tony Snow be returning to FOX news?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:22 pm#132, you are attempting to sound reasonable, but one thing occurs to me (well, one that I’ll mention): if you came to this site for the first time ever today, why do you call yourself Moonbat Hunter? A little antagonistic for a first-timer, isn’t it?
I’ll second Chimpeach’s question: Who told you to come here?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:23 pm# 131, I happened upon it while searching conservative and liberal blog sites. I was going to try and engage in an civil debate until I saw how those who desent were treated. So, I chose to get sarcastic and rile some folks up. I randomly chose the name Moonbat Hunter from a reference a fellow conservative posted earlier on this sitewhen he left. I found it rather comical the way he was attacked. The visual I had in my mind of his treatment was a bunch of ants on a donut.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:24 pmMoonbat Hunter
Is that a subsidiary of MoonbatPatrol?
Comment by ForTruth
Nah, no mention of “homos” and much better grammar and spelling!
October 16th, 2006 at 5:25 pmWhat a spin.
Comment by Ahmed+Ismail — October 16, 2006 @ 5:20 pm
You’re projecting. Funny how you tasted your own medicine and didn’t like it very much. Not surprised at all.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:27 pm# 143, Not sure what “moonbatpatrol” is. And I have no problem with”homo’s” as you so elequently stated.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:28 pm#132
But what you folks stand for on the far left is much less appealing to me. Your stand on taxes, foreign policy, and also the border issue are way off for me.
So, you’re in agreement with Bush and the Republicans in Congress about taxes? You’re okay with the tax burden being pushed off of the ultra-rich and onto the middle class? You’re okay with the top 1% getting their taxes cut while the country has to pay a lot more for this war than anyone had planned. Giving out huge tax cuts in a time of war is okay? Letting the GOP-controlled Congress take our tax dollars and spend them on ‘bridges to nowhere’ and many many other pork projects that we don’t need is not a problem for you? Making up for the lost revenue resulting from tax cuts by raiding Social Security and Medicare doesn’t bother you? Paying massive amounts for the interest on our national debt is okay?
Interesting.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:29 pmI was going to try and engage in an civil debate
Comment by Moonbat+Hunter — October 16, 2006 @ 5:24 pm
Your moniker says otherwise.
Someone looking for a civil debate would have posted something less derogatory.
Looks like Moonpat Patrol is hiding from his violation of site rules… Figures.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:31 pmHAH…I see the gangs all here!!!!
Get a grip folks and simmer down…Your anti-war, anti-bush and anti-american asses will be safe as long as folks like us do your dirty work for ya!….I for one am happy to do so!
Bassturd out!!!!!
October 16th, 2006 at 5:33 pm# 136, I have not even entered a thought in the debate regarding the sign you mention. I never made it that far. You obviously believe I am the sme person that engaged this site earlier regarding the Moonbat reference. I am not. I have gone over to that persons blog site through his link provided on his name, but he and I are not the same.
In addition, I never said the administration was centrist or moderate. I do believe it is more moderate that radical right wing, but I never said that. You twisted my words to read what you wanted to see.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:33 pm#145, there used to be a troll here calling himself Moonbat Patrol, who was coarse, insulting, and divisive right from the get-go. Not to mention racist, homophobic, etc. He was NEVER reasonable. If this is the Moonbat Patrol whom you want to emulate, I’d suggest taking it somewhere else.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:35 pmMoonbat Hunter
“Homos” is the term used by “Moonbat Patrol”, another poster. So, if you have no “problem” with homosexuals, do you support their right to marry one another?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:35 pmI am not hiding from anything. I was reading the posts here and decided to engage you folks in a different manner than I had origonally planned. Plain and simple. I chose that name as a little jab at those who were acting beligerently without provocation, as I do have a sense of humor!
October 16th, 2006 at 5:36 pm#7 Mark+Glesne: Bwaahahaha! The Bush Admininstration actually said we would be greeted as liberators and they couldn’t imagine the war lasting even six months. Mission Accomplished only applied to that ship on that day? You are a moron for thinking people will believe that bull.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:40 pm# 146, I am not as naive as you would like to believe. I make just aroud 70K as a household and am very familiar with tax law. My personal taxes would increase by 54% over where they are now if the current tax changes made by this administration were not in place. Now, I’m not the ultra rich, but I am smart enough to know that if the current tax laws are not in place, I do far worse with regard to my taxes. (this is Federal taxes we are talking here)
October 16th, 2006 at 5:40 pm#142 Moonbat Hunter
I found it rather comical the way he was attacked. The visual I had in my mind of his treatment was a bunch of ants on a donut.
Mark Glesne got jumped on because he was throwing out the same tired old GOP talking points that people who frequent this site have seen for years. Apparently, some of you on the right still think they’re fresh and have some traction left on them. They don’t. That whole Mission Accomplished thing was covered literally years ago and either Glesne wasn’t paying attention or he thinks we all forgot. We didn’t.
And if all you’ve got are more of the tired old insults and nothing constructive to say, don’t be surprised if you get jumped on, too.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:42 pmIt’s interesting that the Adminstration is asking other people how to define “winning.” Shouldn’t they know??
October 16th, 2006 at 5:42 pm#43: of course, Condi and Bush have not walked the streets of Iraq either, because they would sooner hide inside the airport. THEY FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES IN IRAQ.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:44 pm#149. Please accept my appologies for accusing you of something you didn’t write.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:44 pmHoly shit… did Snow just ask how to define winning? That’s a choice quote.
Shorter Bush Admin: Are we winning? That depends on what your definition of “is” is.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:45 pmMoonbat Hunter
Belligerent without provocation!!!
* labelling political opponents as anti-American, unpatriotic
October 16th, 2006 at 5:45 pm* highjacking Christianity to advance political power
* lying to us about the reasons for attacking Iraq
* giving tax cuts to the top 1 or 2 % of Americans
* increasing the deficit, borrowing heavily from foreign govts
* refusing to protect the environment
* violating the Constitution’s protections of privacy and due process
* leading a culture of corruption
Jane, I am not the one you reference, so I’ll stay.
PLC, I believe one should be allowed to live as they choose. I believe the government has no place in ones personal life. I disagree with several policies of this adimnistration, like I said. I just happen to agree with more than I disagree with.
Gotta go get the kids at school, but I will be back!
October 16th, 2006 at 5:46 pmI make just aroud 70K as a household and am very familiar with tax law. My personal taxes would increase by 54% over where they are now if the current tax changes made by this administration were not in place. Comment by Moonbat+Hunter — October 16, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
This is flat wrong. There is no way anyone making $70K saw that kind of tax decrease under Bush.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:48 pmThe anger in you liberals is overwhelming.
Comment by Moonbat Hunter — October 16, 2006 @ 4:19 pm
Funny, I am filled with mirth when I visit this site and encounter flaming whack jobs like you, Moonbat.
In any case, quit projecting. If you can.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:51 pmThis is flat wrong. There is no way anyone making $70K saw that kind of tax decrease under Bush.
Comment by RealScientist — October 16, 2006 @ 5:48 pm
I want to revise this comment. Nobody making that much in wage and salary income would see that kind of tax decrease. I suppose that if Moonbat mostly has investment income, this is possible. But those of making wage and salary income have pretty much gotten the shaft.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:53 pmThese are our leaders! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
October 16th, 2006 at 5:57 pmJokes on you, bitches! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Time to torture more suspects!
#154
My personal taxes would increase by 54% over where they are now if the current tax changes made by this administration were not in place.
I make a bit more than you do (believe me, I’m not bragging about it) and the tax cut made no noticeable difference to me. I don’t know what your circumstances are, but at the time of the tax cut, I had a mortgage and two dependents. If they rolled back the tax cut for everyone making more than $200,000 a year, it would make no difference to me and I think the people who would be affected could probably handle it. In fact, draw the line at $300,000 instead and I’m sure we’d get almost the same benefit from it, as far as dealing with the budget deficit.
The argument from the right is always “If we raise taxes on the rich, people will lose jobs.” That’s ridiculous. We’re talking income tax. What jobs are going to be lost with an increase in income tax on the wealthy? It’s not as if CEOs are paying their employees’ wages out of their own pockets. Who’s going to get laid off? Their nannies and gardeners?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:57 pm#139, Unbelievable: “… and paint us all with a very broad brush of liberal blue.” I happen to look very good in liberal blue. ;-)
#130/134, what is your definition of “winning” in Iraq? How about “making progress”? Because it’s pretty obvious that what’s going on there is by no means the average person’s (let alone 99% of people) definition of “winning” a war. If you believe that 99% of people would have taken the meaning of those statements any differently than we did here, then you must believe that 99% of people have incredibly poor reading comprehension. Maybe that’s just 99% of the people that you know.
October 16th, 2006 at 6:06 pmWhile people talk about the separation of church and state they neglect to note that the country has apparently not achieved a separation of law and politics.
Where are our IMPEACHMENT RIGHTS?
Right there, next to our voting rights, in the ashcan.
Hear that slurping sound? That’s the winger trolls licking French mayonaisse off Hastert’s balls.
October 16th, 2006 at 6:13 pmThanks for the image, Paul! Eewww!
#161,Jane, I am not the one you reference, so I’ll stay. Moonbat Hunter – MH, my comment wasn’t an invitation.
I have to leave anyway, gotta go home and see if my Mets disappoint me or make me happy tonight. (hey, where’s Exley?)
Goodnight!
October 16th, 2006 at 6:27 pmYou’re supposed to tell us what the definition of winning is jerk. No wonder nobody supports this war, not even the administration knows what the definition of victory is.
October 16th, 2006 at 6:55 pmlate to the conversation but Mark can choke on the FACTS if he has an ounce of integrity and honesty.
Juice with your crow Sir?
Why do you salute failure? Embrace denial?
WHITE HOUSE PUSHES FOR MISSION ACCOMPLISHED BANNER
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/
October 16th, 2006 at 6:56 pmThen I guess I am not a lefty according to you.
We need to cut taxes for the poor and middle class.
We need to hunt down the terrorists that are in Pakistan.
We need to kick all the illegals out and police the border.
Now, where do us “lefties stand”
October 16th, 2006 at 7:25 pmMister MoonbatHunter,
I am all for a civilized debate. But your entrance was like Ted Nugent showing up to a PETA conference.
October 16th, 2006 at 7:30 pmI am taking the liberty of posting a copy of a beautiful post by “Your Conscience†on the thread above about Weldon. This post is for all the psychos like Culture Warrior, Daryll, hellpig, Hendler, Mark Glesne, Moonbat Hunter, et al. to read and think about.
Here is the post:
WE ARE CONTARDS AND THIS IS OUR SONG
It’s the liberals. It’s the ACLU. It’s Clinton. It’s Monica. It’s the “climate of permissivenessâ€. It’s France. It’s the liberal media. It’s Clinton’s p*nis. It’s Hillary. It’s Gov. Dean. We never could have known they’d fly planes into buildings. “No actionable intelligenceâ€. They didn’t tell us to do anything. O’Neill’s lying. Clarke’s lying. General Shinseki’s lying. The Union of Concerned Scientists is lying. Our own weapons inspector David Kay’s lying. Wilson’s lying. John Dean’s lying. Newsweek lied! CBS lied! Everyone’s lying but us. We had to lie. We never lied.
Plame outed herself. Her husband outed her. The liberals outed her. No one outed her, since everyone already knew her covert identity. Rove had nothing to do with it. No comment. Lib’ral, lib’ral, lib’ral.
It’s the libs trying to pull Schiavo’s feeding tube. It doesn’t matter that DeLay pulled his own dad’s feeding tube. “Culture of lifeâ€. It’s Janet Jackson’s boobs; it’s the Statue of Justice’s boobs. Reading the news might cloud my judgement. It’s the “decade our government…blinded itself to our enemiesâ€. It’s the homosexuals wanting to marry. “Restore honor and dignity to the White Houseâ€. A decision to go to war wasn’t a decision to go to war. “No actionable intelligenceâ€. It’s the pledge of allegiance. They’re taking God out of America. Osama didn’t tell us when, how, where, and by what means he’d attack, and he didn’t leave a forwarding address. The 9/11 panel is biased against us. Saddam = Al Qaida. Saddam = Al Qaida.
Chalabi’s an honorable man and I believe everything he says about WMDs. Chalabi’s a crook and he passed secrets to Iran. Chalabi’s the liberals’ fault because they didn’t shoot us when we started using his “intelligenceâ€. Chalabi? I don’t know any ‘Chalabi’!
It’s just a few dead-enders. They’ll be gone when we capture Saddam. They’ll be gone when we capture Saddam’s sons. They’ll be gone when we hand over “sovereigntyâ€. They’ll be gone when Iraq has elections. They’ll be gone in 12 years. They’ll never be gone.
We fight them in London so we don’t have to fight them, er, uh, well, can’t get fooled again!
Bolton didn’t lie! He just knowingly gave incorrect answers under oath.
Aw, so what’s another ISLAMIC STATE in the mideast? It’s not like Bush has made it a home for terrorists or anything!
No one could have anticipated that a category 5 hurricane aimed directly at New Orleans would have destroyed it! No one could have anticipated that they might need federal assistance quickly! Of course no one’s in charge of accepting the generous aid offered by other nations — isn’t that the mayor’s responsibility? Being a judging supervisor for the Arabian Horse Association is ample experience to head FEMA! It’s the mayor’s fault! It’s the governor’s fault! It’s Howard Dean’s fault! It’s CBS’s fault! It’s the Monica Crime! Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo! Libtards killed Terry Schiavo! Wah! Wahhhhhhh!
It’s all these former staffers hawking their books. Money never corrupted anyone. “I’m a uniter, not a divider!†It’s the stem cells. It’s the feminazis, the intellectual elitists, and the ecoterrorists.
It’s Cthulhu. It’s the martians.
It’s anyone but Bush.
Comment by Your+Conscience — October 16, 2006 @ 6:14 pm
October 16th, 2006 at 8:05 pm2 years after our arrival in Baghdad
October 16th, 2006 at 8:09 pmfor most GI’s it was forbidden to express personal views on websites
by the Pentagon till now. But. There
are GI’s on websites with a personal
laptop and they are perhaps a little
bit underestimated and we all should
visit and read them and find directly
in this manner how we win the war.
“Are we winning?” The answer to that question depends on who is meant by “we.”
Is Bushco winning? Yes! Only they are winning!
Are the American People winning? No!
Are the Iraqi People winning? No!
Are the People of the world winning? No!
Is “democracy” winning? No!
Is health care winning? No!
Is education winning? No!
Is humanity winning? No!
Is the environment winning? No!
Is justice winning? No!
Is honesty winning? No!
Doug Joiner
October 16th, 2006 at 9:56 pmSnow and Bush are stupid.
October 16th, 2006 at 10:16 pmDidn’t “mission accomplished” mean you won? Oops, I mean we….we won?
October 16th, 2006 at 10:55 pm#177 They’re not stupid. They’re making money from the war.
October 16th, 2006 at 10:55 pmThinkProgress has taken the I don’t know comment out of context. Read it again. It should make everyone here question what kind of information they are being fed.
October 16th, 2006 at 11:11 pmAMERICA IS JUST SO DAMN CRAZY. Its like a big plastic bag with mice and hens and such. Fantastic thing about hens, I think they eat mice. Maybe America will eat iraq?
October 16th, 2006 at 11:32 pmALL that really matters now is support your troops….it doesn’t matter if you agree with the war or not. Be sure to thank them for the work b/c they have no choice.
October 17th, 2006 at 12:42 am“ThinkProgress has taken the I don’t know comment out of context.” — paul
“QUESTION: Just a simple question: Are we winning?
SNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?”
How do you define ‘winning’ in an illegal, genocidal invasion that has tripled the cost of gasoline and broken everyone of our international treaties and federal laws dealing with such ‘vague, misconstrued’ acts such as torture, abduction, hostage-taking, and burning alive with white phosphorus.
Oh yeah, paul, wow — SO out of context.
The only context that matters any more is the one with Tony Snow in federal prison for participation in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States. At that, he’ll be better off than Go F*k Himself himself, who should be showing the world his tongue for the last time, as it hangs purple out of his noose-choked mouth.
October 17th, 2006 at 1:05 am“LL that really matters now is support your troops….it doesn’t matter if you agree with the war or not.”
Any troop who fights under the UCMJ has my support. EVERY troop who has violated the UCMJ, followed illegal orders, committed atrocities, failed to report criminal activities, etc., have my support for court martial on their crimes.
That’s tens of thousands of troops.
150,000 US military casualties so far in this war (according to the VA, which has approved over 100,000 disability claims).
What really matters now is YOUR ability to help punish Bush, Rumsfeld, and the entire White House Iraq Group, for treason, negligence, fraud, and major warcrimes.
October 17th, 2006 at 1:08 am#182 – and take them home soon b/c they’re in a nonsense war? They not paid their lives for Iraqis freedom b/c 70% iraqis requet them out. They not paid their lives for US security b/c The war increase anti-American and recuit more terrorists. They not paid their lives for eliminate WMD b/c it is not there, it’s at NK.
October 17th, 2006 at 1:13 amlets hang them!
October 17th, 2006 at 1:18 amAs a French, I can only laugh to your miserable posts. You are pathetic. Most of you were war supporters and despise France when we dare to say at the UN that your WMD proofs were as crap as the brain of your Commander in Chief.
Now because you are so called democrats, liberals or whatever you turn your back against Bush and Co. It was in Nov 2003 that this move was necessary now it’s too late and your boys are dying in Iraq and will continue for the coming years.
Many Americans say that French always lost their wars. Since when do you have won a war?
October 17th, 2006 at 1:36 am[...] » White House Spokesman on Iraq: ‘I Don’t Know’ If We Are Winning » NKorea: Sanctions are declaration of war – Yahoo! News » G4 is dead – GameSpot » BF2142 Spyware » Hot Fuzz Teaser 2 » Hot Fuzz Teaser 1 » America’s Dumbest Congressmen [...]
October 17th, 2006 at 6:16 am“As a French, I can only laugh to your miserable posts. You are pathetic. ”
That’s a line from some French movie…can you give a hint?
“Most of you were war supporters”
You have the wrong website. Perhaps you were looking for athletic supporters?
“and despise France when we dare to say at the UN that your WMD proofs were as crap as the brain of your Commander in Chief.”
France has its own problems, and one of them appears to be you. You seem to think that somehow the United States is a dog with two eyes and a tail.
I lost five uncles in your cornfields, and the only reason you even have a free government is because of American sacrifice for you.
“Many Americans say that French always lost their wars.”
France has lost several ‘wars’ against extremism within France. You have nothing so much to feel superior about.
“Since when do you have won a war?”
Since when does ANYONE win an illegal genocidal invasion. How ’bout them French in Indochina? Those nuke tests open air in Polynesia? How about the French company that own most of Africa’s water supply?How about you dumping nuclear waste in the former Soviet Union? Rather than try to break this into the Monopoly game of countries and leaders, you should be asserting our COMBINED resistance. Instead, you pretend to superiority.
But you got a lot of work to do right where you are, don’t kid yourself.
October 17th, 2006 at 6:35 amTony DID hit on the pertinent question however.
October 17th, 2006 at 7:36 amWhat is winning in Iraq. Obviously the man
who started the war, Pres. Bush, doesn’t know.
#189 Thanks exactly what I expected.
October 17th, 2006 at 7:36 am“how do you define winning”, what sort of question is this, is snow some sort of idiot.
October 17th, 2006 at 8:17 amthis statement shows, glaringly, that the bush gang, simply does not have an idea of what is going on, bush is so far behind in iraq, that he believes that america is winning.
god damns america!
You people have lost your damn minds!!!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics….Even if you win, you’re still a retard!
Bassturd out!!!
October 17th, 2006 at 11:39 amPaul in LA, good posts!
October 17th, 2006 at 11:39 amExactly what is progressing, other then the number of innocent deaths?
October 17th, 2006 at 12:30 pmalso, pat robertson was told by bush that “there would be no casualties” in iraq.
October 17th, 2006 at 2:43 pmwho do you believe, bush or pat?
Iraq As A US Ally Is A Oxymoron
FOR IRAQI NATION TO FLOURISH US MUST EXIT
Saddam ruled by brutality.
October 17th, 2006 at 3:06 pmInherent in the policy “When they stand up, we’ll stand down”, is that someday the Shia will be able to rule by force, i.e. brutality.
It seems fair to say that Iraqi nationalism prior to our invasion saw the US as the ‘Great Satan’ as we are seen in Iran.
Therefore, efforts to form a US backed government, be it a Shia military dictatorship or a US approved and manipulated “democracy”, brings you to the same place; either type government will be seen to be the lackey of the Great Satan.
That the Iraqis just danced in the street to cheer the Hezbollah army in its battle versus Israel (and the US) is case in point.
The Iraqis need to have a sense of nation, of nationalism to form a lasting government.
A US backed government is anathematical to the Iraqis and to a lasting solution.
As John Murtha has said or (to me) implied, to a degree we are the enemy: we are the problem: they’re shooting at us and those perceived to be our lackeys.
Tis time to go.
A US backed Iraqi government, acceptable to the Iraqis, is an oxymoron. Seen in this light, setting an exact schedule for drawing down US forces will be an empowering act for the Iraqis.
Completing the mission is up to the Iraqis: praise Allah and wishing them good luck. The only alternative is permanent occupation, (’hold the democracy‘), in which case “Stay the Course†actually and honestly entails a US commitment for decades.
Don’t forget one important, maybe ALL important factor; my grampa used to say, “If you see something that defies explanation, look to who could be profiting from it.” These scalawags in power are not going to leave Iraq as long as revenue is being generated, which is bogus of course, since our tax dollars are being used as the source of funding, and our military was and is being used to create and maintain the impetus. What a f**king racket. The neocons (ultimate) goal was to control that region of the mideast, then the riches would come; oil, no bid re-constuction contracts, weapons contracts,
October 17th, 2006 at 5:08 pmand the adulation of (at least the right-wing) Americans, and the “trickle-down” effect would “benefit” them, etc, etc, etc. The fact that their plan fell thru and continues to free fall makes them all the more adamant to stay and “recoup their losses”, only the people of the USA and Iraq are the real losers, not these da*n bloodsuckers. We need to get these maggots out of office NOW! Richard Nixon looks like a saint by comparison, and that is no exaggeration!
Hey #7, you keep believing that. Noone as concerned about the information that gets leaked out and the public’s perception (they’re no good at that either) would have let that sign be shown in a national address if it wasn’t supposed to be there.
Bush walking off the plane in his flight suit must have all been a show for the crew?
It’s amazing that you actually believe that. But if anything I should learn not to be amazed by now by what Bush supporters believe.
October 17th, 2006 at 6:15 pm[...] QUESTION: Just a simple question: Are we winning? SNOW: We ’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning? The fact is, in taking on the war on terror — no, let me put it this way: The president’s made it obvious we’re going to win. And that means ultimately providing an Iraq that is safe, secureread more | digg story [...]
October 18th, 2006 at 10:40 amOK, I’ll be upfront about this right away. I followed a link from Mark Glesne’s blog to this discussion while trying to catch up on some of my favorite blogs. I’m not here to defend the “Mission Accomplished” banner or the administration’s policies.
What I’ve found compelling about this discussion is the way you rejected Mark’s service out of hand (#59, #60, #71, #73, #89) , when a cursory search could easily verify his service in Iraq, and alongside the Iraqi Army. He even provided a link to his blog. Yet I see no evidence that any one of you did the least bit of research into his past before calling him a liar and impugning his service. It’s some of the more childish behavior that I’ve seen on a blog, be it left-wing or right-wing. I don’t know Mark personally, which is to say that I have not met him face-to-face, but I will vouch for his service as a US Marine. If anyone wants to question my own bona fides, feel free to contact me through OPFOR.
#60, MoreFamilyValues: HAHA.. 53 soldiers dead so far this month, and we’re just halfway through. I guess thats one way to work with the “invadersâ€. I’ll forgive your ignorance, since it is based entirely on, at best, second-hand information. Fortunately, I had the opportunity to work with an Iraqi LtCol who had been wounded by American forces during the 2003 invasion. He forged such a close relationship with the Americans advising his battalion that he told the senior adviser, a US Marine major, that he preferred to think that it was Maj M. who wounded him. That way, since it was a man that he respected, there was no anger or resentment. During the last days of my latest deployment some friends and I were eating lunch with an Iraqi major. This man had been a general in Saddam’s army, in their air defense corps. My friend, a Marine F/A-18 pilot, and the Iraqi officer got a good laugh out of the fact that he probably commanded some of the batteries that tracked and fired upon Brad’s Hornet. I could go on and on about working with former Regime officers and soldiers. I can tell you that in the little patch of dirt that I walked for weeks and months, we did have a very good relationship with the Iraqi Army, and that the security situation had improved drastically since just the beginning of this year.
OK, one last word about the “Mission Accomplished” thing. #58 Chimpeach alleges that the ship was turned so that the cameras would not reveal how close the ship was to shore. Allow me to proffer an alternative explanation: aircraft carriers have to turn in to the wind in order to recover aircraft. If you need to verify that, I suspect that a pilot milblogger such as Pinch can give you more detail. Whether or not the camera angles were specifically selected for some nefarious reason is beyond my knowledge and the scope of this comment.
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