‘Hero of Guantanamo’ on Detainee Bill: ‘I Don’t Believe’ It Will ‘Match Constitutional Muster’
‘Hero of Guantanamo’ on Detainee Bill: ‘I Don’t Believe’ It Will ‘Match Constitutional Muster’
Lt. Commander Charles Swift, the lawyer who represented Guantanamo detainee Salim Hamdan in the landmark Supreme Court case that ruled President Bush’s military commissions unconstitutional and in violation of international law, appeared on C-Span yesterday to take questions from viewers. Swift has been dubbed the “hero of Guantanamo,” yet he was recently “passed over for promotion” by the Pentagon.
Swift spoke forcefully against the detainee legislation the House and Senate approved in September. “Unfortuantely,” Swift said, Congress did “exactly what Justice Kennedy told them not to do” and passed “legislation that was done in the heat of the moment.” “I don’t believe that it’s going to match constitutional muster when the courts have an opportunity to take a look at it,” Swift added. Watch it:
Read a summary of the problems with the detainee bill HERE.
Transcript:
Unfortunately, Congress in [sic] doing exactly what Justice Kennedy told them not to do. He warned against legislation that was done in the heat of the moment, and was not done carefully and measured over time, and thought outside of the conflict, “What’s the best thing to do?” Unfortunately, instead of that, we got a very quick piece of legislation heard in a difficult political climate. And I don’t believe that it’s going to match constitutional muster when the courts have an opportunity to take a look at it.
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A judicial review of this bill cannot come soon enough. Speaking of which, has Bush signed the thing yet? What’s he waiting for?
October 16th, 2006 at 12:13 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
Nice to see someone with integrity involved in all of this. Lets see how it all shakes out.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:14 pmNothing will pass Constitutional Muster once the republican’s strangle hold on the three branches is broken.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:15 pmNoone believes it will pass. Makes you wonder why anyone would vote for it.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:17 pm[...] Original post by Payson Read More… [...]
October 16th, 2006 at 12:19 pmI don’t believe that it’s going to match constitutional muster when the courts have an opportunity to take a look at it,†Swift added.
From Glenn Greenwald’s comment section:”I do not wish to contest your characterization of these “moderate” GOP Senators. I generally agree with you. But I also wonder if some of the more extreme stuff in the torture bill was left in so that the entire bill would be tossed out by the courts. It is not uncommon for Congress to pass a bill with the expectation that the courts will kill it. This allows them to both profit from the political gain of supporting some blatantly assinine legislation (in this case, the attempt to paint the Democrats as coddling terrorists) but not actually having to endure the consequences of seeing their legislation put into force.
Just a thought.cap and gown
I think cap and gown has it right.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:25 pmAnd I don’t believe that it’s going to match constitutional muster when the courts have an opportunity to take a look at it.
The question is, will the courts ever have a chance to look at it?
October 16th, 2006 at 12:29 pmThis is no longer the government of the people. The Secret Government, the Shadow Government, hidden in plain view for decades, hoves into view — It is the province of the ultra-wealthy, the oligarchy of the power elite, and the playground for the intellectual, nihlistic deconstructionist, such as the Council on Foriegn Relations and the Trilateral Commision, members of which have throughly infested our government since its inception.
Voting for this bill was a treasonous act, signing it into law is even more egregious but signing it into law does not make it so. The rights Bushco would deny us are derived from a higher power and no government can remove them from a free and determined people.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:33 pmGood guy, but the Bush Regime will destroy him!
October 16th, 2006 at 12:34 pm#9, Jay, and all of us if they are not stopped…Blessings
October 16th, 2006 at 12:40 pmI can’t seem to recall anything that BushCo has done that can match Constitutional muster.
Goper’s Lement
October 16th, 2006 at 12:41 pm#9 – Jay,
October 16th, 2006 at 12:43 pmHe may have passed the point to where he is undestructable.
Yes Sharon after November 7th we will know if there is hope for America or not? My feeling is the election is rigged > reason why Bush and Rove seem so unconcerned about the outcome! Vote fraud is how despotic regimes stay in power!
October 16th, 2006 at 12:43 pmIn a country that has so few heroes today, Lt. Commander Swift fills the void.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:44 pmWalt > nobody is undestructable in America with Bush Regime in power! The guy could have an accident or drop dead from induced heart attack > I fear for this nation and good decent people too!
October 16th, 2006 at 12:47 pmYep! As usual, you are correct and I agree…..Have heard many polaticians say the very same thing. We may loose out in 2006 because of fraud but by 2008 we will get it under control….My thought is, if we all live that long under these murderers and thieves….Blessings All…Not going to be here very long, the site and struggle to post gives me a head ache……
October 16th, 2006 at 12:49 pmWalt
If they can’t find anything they will make something up.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:51 pmWhy hasn’t Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006? Through chicanery of arcana, the Congress sent him the bill to sign on October 10, ten days after they adjourned the concurrent session. If they had sent it to him, then adjourned, the bill would have died after ten days without a signature. Now, it can become law in four more days, without Bush’s signature. This seems to me to be a sneaky back-handed way to say he approves of the bill, “loves it” but “hey, i never signed that so don’t hold me criminally liable later” for what it allows me to do.
October 16th, 2006 at 12:54 pmI used to travel a lot to other countries by airlines, but as long as Bush is in power I will NOT fly overseas anymore! I do not want to wind up in GITMO or renditioned to Egypt to get tortured just for being a critic of Bush’s policies > plus it’s unsafe to travel as an American now to many locations! If Bush leaves the presidency in January 2009, then I can travel again if the world still exists in 2009?!
October 16th, 2006 at 12:58 pmScenario – just before elections one of the ships bush has sent off the coast of Iran gets sunk – bush orders strike on Iran – ulimate “rally-around-the-flag” ploy – Diebold and voter fraud take care of the rest .
If there is a popular revolt bush can easily push through the dictorial powers congress has insanely given him. Habeus Corpus suspended because of “rebellion” BEFORE the fact! If there is a revolt against the obvious destruction of what’s left our republic the 800 detention camps that Halliburton has build will be put to good use housing the “enemy collaborators” bush will declare us to be.
October 16th, 2006 at 1:02 pmI too wonder about the length of time it took to get the bill to Bush. After all they took care of the Schiavo legislation in a day, from introduction to signature, and they even recalled both Congress and Bush from vacation.
The timing has all been well-planned in advance, and Rove is conducting the orchestra.
Just remember, although Bush can insulate himself from domestic war-crimes charges, he cannot insulate himself from international law and the jus cogens prohibition on torture.
October 16th, 2006 at 1:04 pmGonnuts > I heard Halliburton has only finished a few of those camps so far > up to 50,000 Americans can fit into the completed facilities > a completed one is in Utah > no way do I want GOP Mormon guards > they could be sadistic?!
October 16th, 2006 at 1:08 pmMust Read:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/010206detentioncamps.htm
October 16th, 2006 at 1:09 pmWith a mere 800 detention camps, W would have to house about 65,000 in each, plus find a place to house 30,000 minor offspring in each camp. He wouldn’t use gas ovens, would he?
October 16th, 2006 at 1:14 pm#6 – would love to share this view, but remember that the SCOTUS conservatives (Scalia, Thomas, Alito [Roberts recused]) voted in the minority on Hamdan.
If this latest detainee law gets tested, and just one of Stevens, Souter, Kennedy, Breyer or Ginsberg either goes flaky or dies, this law is likely to get okayed by the highest court.
Playing political games with legislation as serious as the detainee bill was about as irresponsible as could be imagined.
October 16th, 2006 at 1:26 pmGas Ovens? More stupid talk from the left. We love it when you talk like that. It just pushes more people to vote Republican. There is no strangle hold on the three branches. We have not gottn the courts yet. But we will. We (the majority) vote that way.
Now, about the topic. Why do you poeple hate America so much you want to weaken us? Why do you love terrorists more than Americans? Everyone sees how weak the Demorats are and you will see it really strong right before elections.
October 16th, 2006 at 1:26 pm26-happy+guy…is there any scenerio you’d vote for a democrat & not a republican?
Have you ever voted for a Democrat for the position of Congressperson, Senator, Govenor or President? Whom was that.
Please….show us your broad based views.
October 16th, 2006 at 1:30 pmI saw this lawyer on Keith Olbermann. He was very good, and very principled. I’m happy that he was published in the list of top 100 influential lawyers.
Hopefully, his reward will be a well-paid position in a prominent law firm, or a tenured professorship in a prominent Law School. While this guy was drummed out by Bush, et al, George “Slam-Dunk” Tenet received the Medal of Freedom.
Fortunately, Charles Swift put his country and the Constitution ahead of his own personal career and political concerns. This is rarely seen on either side of the aisle. Perhaps he’ll be a role-model for young lawyers. I hope so.
October 16th, 2006 at 1:42 pmThank’s for the link BnF. …More scary stuff…..Blessings
October 16th, 2006 at 1:46 pmHappy Guy, am I reading you right? You believe a Lt. Cmdr. of the US Navy loves terrorists more than America? Someone who has spent years defending this country? I just want to be sure on this. It would be one thing to come on this thread and just push your side against any other, but to try and smack down a Lt. Cmdr of the US Navy without understanding anything about him or his duties (issued by the US Military) well that’s just dumb.
You’re not dumb are you?
October 16th, 2006 at 1:53 pm#’s 6 & 18 (barfly/cap and gown and spyder) both bring up excellent perspectives…
…the Repulsivescum often resort to dirty tricks to make Democrats look bad, or weak, or indecisive…
…and Bushiva’s use of the ten day rule in order to AVOID a public signing of the torture bill…
…is just another demonstration of his moral cowardice…
…scumsucking Bushite cultists like Happy Guy care more about their gods Bushiva and L’il Dick than they do this country…
…”winning” – even if it leads to their total and utter destruction- is the ONLY thing that matters to these emotionally unstable inbreds…
…this is why the REST OF US…
…MUST destroy them as a political entity, shame them personally, and make conservatism (especially social conservatives) a DIRTY WORD…
October 16th, 2006 at 1:55 pmbreaking news
republican weldon(?) daughter and friends house raided during a investigation for lobbying. haven’t recieved much of the story but i’m sure none of us are surprised
October 16th, 2006 at 1:57 pmHey, Happy Guy
Usama bin Laden isn’t “Hating Freedom” by raping the US Constitution on an hourly basis, that’s W’s job
In fact, I can’t think of a bigger al-Qaeda enabler, and more eager appeaser of Usama bin Laden, than President Bush Jr
All bin Laden has to do is snap his fingers, tell W to spread & bend over, and W says, “How Far & How Wide?”
If you support W at this point, then you support al-Qaeda & Usama bin Laden as well, and that’s in addition to hating the under-armored US troops in Iraq
It’s obvious from your most Lackey-driven of comments that handling reality isn’t a problem for W alone, but also for his rapidly dwindling number of ultra-naive, starry eyed true believers
But hey, the more the trolls post here and at other liberal sites, the less time they have to reach out to the undecided voters personally, and seeing as how the USS GOP is sinking quicker than the Titanic, I encourage the trolls to keep shooting their mouths off as opposed to actually doing anything productive for their politcal party
October 16th, 2006 at 2:02 pmHabeas corpus is written into the constitution. It would require a Constitutional Amendment to remove it. The Supreme Court cannot remove it and neither can the legislature in a legislative manner such as this.
As glaring as this violation is, the Supreme Court will only knock this down on a 5-4 vote. And the 4 votes are all younger members of the Supreme Court.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:03 pmThis hero was swift boated by WDickKarlDon for daring to defend a detainee.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:04 pmHis opinion carries a little more weight, than say, Harriet Myers, who probably told W that this was a “slam dunk”.
2 november, i believe, there is going to be a documentary on the diebold machines, hbo that is. everyone must watch and beware. i’ll be voting absentee by the end of the month.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:09 pmHappy+Guy clearly doesn’t believe the U.S. Constitution is in any way related to who we are as a country. He and his conservative ilk would just as soon burn the Constitution before they would give up their God-given right to torture.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:09 pm#37
the gop!! or the catholic church
October 16th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#37: that’s funny. If only you asked the Republicans because you don’t need any relevant education or experience (heck of a job, Brownie), and obviously they welcome (and protect) pedophiles.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:10 pm“The Privilege of the Writ of Habeus Corpus shall not be suspended, unless whin in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public safety may require it.” U.S. Constitution, Article I.
All it would take is an anti-war protest. Or any protest. Think the Constitution still applies?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:12 pmAYTRWS –
October 16th, 2006 at 2:12 pmHey, it burns real good, it’s just a goddamn piece of paper!
Barfly
Your best bet is asking Dennis Hastert, as he obviously has no problems with child predators if they’re Republican
October 16th, 2006 at 2:13 pmAre we on Flight 93? Is there a hijacker present?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:13 pmHappy Guy and his ilk don’t care about Democracy. Many dead end right wingers simply care about winning. Their team is the Republican Party, and they can’t stand to see them lose. While most Republicans realize that the current administration is harmful to America, these dead enders hold on, keep on with the nonsensical and transparent talking points, hoping and praying for a mid-term miracle. To them, elections aren’t about what’s best for the country, in fact, it’s not even about what’s best for them, simply about their team winning.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:13 pm#36 ren, how about you go to a porno site and peddle you’re crap there, maybe you will get lucky and arrested for being a pedaphile…Many here are sick and tired of filthy mouthed children using parent’s computers to play their game’s…Be gone..
October 16th, 2006 at 2:15 pmAnother must read:
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77
October 16th, 2006 at 2:16 pmI’ve told Judd about the improper posts by someone using other’s names. Hopefully those will be deleted soon.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:17 pm#51
yes the republicons are and do
October 16th, 2006 at 2:20 pmIt will be great VICTORY for terrorism & fascism . Step by step, they destroyed the U.S. Constitution.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:22 pmDisgusting troll’s have polluted TP once again….
October 16th, 2006 at 2:22 pmwhy are you all responding to such nonsense (ren)?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:23 pm#61, because nothing in his brain expect … nonsense thing.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:27 pmbs – #61 ~ Zooey’s having fun, no time to stop now!
October 16th, 2006 at 2:27 pmthat’s fair if zooey is enjoying herself. the filth coming out of his mouth——damn.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:33 pmWhy is it that ren can loudly troll the thread and the spam filter won’t let me post a href’d link to an article backing up what I’m saying?
Who is setting these priorities?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:34 pm#64 the filth coming out of his mouth
October 16th, 2006 at 2:36 pmThat’s what happens when your sex obsessed, but not gettin’ any!
I like his style.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:38 pmPLEASE READ
This is an email I received from World Can’t Wait:
To the World Can’t Wait Community:
On Tuesday, October 17 at 9:35 a.m., President Bush will sign the Military Commissions Act (S. 3930) at the White House. In response, Tuesday is No Torture In Our Name! Day.
WEAR ORANGE
Wear orange armbands with “NO TORTURE” written on them.
T-shirts at our online store (call 866-973-4463 for bulk rates).
Banner on freeways “No Torture! Drive Out the Bush Regime!â€
As close to 9:30 am as possible, take an hour and head to your local Post Office, coffee shop, or bookstore with copies of the ad below:
Text from World Can’t Wait’s ad in the New York Times October. 4. Click here to see the fullpage ad.
SILENCE + TORTURE = COMPLICITY
“Can’t the United States see that when we allow someone to be tortured by our agents, it is not only the victim and the perpetrator who are corrupted, not only the ‘intelligence’ that is contaminated, but also everyone who looked away and said they did not know, everyone who consented tacitly to that outrage so they could sleep a little safer at night, all the citizens who did not march in the streets by the millions to demand the resignation of whoever suggested, even whispered, that torture is inevitable in our day and age, that we must embrace its darkness?â€
Ariel Dorfman, “Are We Really So Fearful?â€
YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS NOW CODIFIED TORTURE. The new law does not prohibit the government from using “alternative interrogation techniques†that include sleep deprivation, extreme cold, personal degradation, waterboarding (simulated drowning), “temporary†disablement, and psychological disorientation. The new law grants George Bush the sole authority to decide what torture is. Abu Ghraib and the secret renditions were horrible. But to take the next step and write such practices into law is even worse — qualitatively worse.
Your government has officially shredded constitutional promises of basic and fundamental rights to due process — taking a huge step towards replacing the rule of law with the arbitrary rule of men. The new law will give the president the right to hold people indefinitely without charging them, and without review from the courts, nullifying habeas corpus rights. Congress has now passed legislation that denies defendants the right to see evidence used against them, and allows the use of “evidence†gained through torture. It forbids anyone to invoke the Geneva Conventions in any civil case or habeas corpus proceedings undertaken against the U.S. government, and, according to some experts, it may also forbid this in criminal cases.
Your government – which already holds over 14,000 people overseas without charges — has dramatically expanded the scope of who it can detain to include people anywhere in the world, including within the U.S. People can now be declared an “unlawful enemy combatant†simply for providing what the president decides is “material,†including financial or indirect support for hostilities against the U.S.
Your government is rewriting the law on crimes against humanity to exclude itself, incurring the contempt and hatred of people all over the planet.
Few in Congress made anything but the most token show of opposition , as leading Democrats let Bush set the agenda, staying silent when it mattered, refusing to filibuster, then voting no only when the die was cast.
This unprecedented legalization of torture is part of a package coming from the Bush regime. That package includes an atrocious, nightmarish occupation of Iraq and now the ominous threat of war against Iran. It includes an assault on critical thinking and serious motion toward a theocracy. It includes the criminal response to Hurricane Katrina. It includes a systematic attack on women’s reproductive rights, and the demonization of gay people and denial of their basic human rights. It includes the scapegoating of immigrants and severely repressive new legislation aimed at them.
And it gets worse with every passing week. As the call for The World Can’t Wait–Drive Out the Bush Regime states: “The Bush regime is setting out to radically remake society very quickly, in a fascist way, and for generations to come.†With this legalization of torture, who will now deny that? The stakes are clearly enormous.
If Not Now, When? If Not Us, Who?
THIS MUST HALT! This entire package must be repudiated, and the whole direction of this country must be reversed.
There is a way to act against this onslaught, effectively. There is a vitally important step to take now to begin driving out this regime and reversing this nightmare direction:
Join in raising the demand to DRIVE OUT THE BUSH REGIME.
“The point is this: history is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US.†— From the call “The World Can’t Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime!â€
Debra Sweet
October 16th, 2006 at 2:40 pmNational Coordinator, The World Can’t Wait – Drive Out the Bush Regime
In Washington, DC, there is a mourning vigil and “People’s Signing Ceremony†at 9 a.m. on Tuesday 10/17 in front of the White House on the Lafayette Park side. The vigil has been planned by the Washington Region Religious Campaign Against Torture, who will be joined by the Torture Abolition and Survivors Support Coalition (TASSC) International, Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), PeaceAction Montgomery, The Shalom Center, the National Religious Campaign Against Torture, and World Can’t Wait DC Chapter. 202-536-4313
October 16th, 2006 at 2:41 pmThat CAN’T be our ren and our zooey!?
October 16th, 2006 at 2:45 pmI can’t friken believe some of the above posts are tolerated by TP. I have been deleted for far less.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:48 pmI know its not the real ren and Zooey.
October 16th, 2006 at 2:49 pmHonestly, I have a mouth like a truck driver, but those posts even took me aback!
October 16th, 2006 at 2:52 pmSomeone at TP is asleep at the wheel, or maybe out for an extended donut run…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:11 pmFriends, see post 47.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:23 pmDallasNE #34
Tell that to Jose Padilla…
…or any of the number of Americans of Arab descent…
…who have been detained (under suspicion of terrorist activity) without the benefit of counsel…
…and God only knows how many have been renditioned and tortured on foreign soil…
October 16th, 2006 at 3:29 pmSwift is SPINNING.
““Unfortuantely,†Swift said, Congress did “exactly what Justice Kennedy told them not to do†and passed “legislation that was done in the heat of the moment.â€
‘Congress’ did not do that. The Rapepublican majority did that, along party lines.
Eighty-four percent of the House Dems voted NAY.
A few DINO Senators crossed over — the usual suspects, such as Lieberman and Rockefeller.
The Democratic parties many amendments to this law were all blocked by the Rapepublican majority.
So why does Swift mimic the talking point and say ‘Congress’? They’re washing his career down the toilet, so why does he still defend such falsehoods in his speech?
October 16th, 2006 at 3:41 pmBriseadh,
Thanks for bringing this to the attention of Judd, you are a friend sir.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:54 pmPaul, Congress gets the blame and/or credit for this one. There was no filibuster.
ForTruth, you are welcome. While there is such a thing as free speach, there is no tolerance for posting vulgarities under someone else’s name. Fortunately that kind of nonsense can be tracked through ISP addresses.
For those whose name was used by another in those vulgar posts, I suggest seeing a lawyer. You might be able to sue the individual responsible.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:22 pmThe Military Commissions Bill was a farce. No judge will ever deem it constitutional.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:23 pmKarim,
the government will argue that no judge has jurisdiction to hear cases regarding its Constitutionality.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:30 pmSo, BnF, the Constitution is uncostitutional? How far should that argument carry?
October 16th, 2006 at 5:15 pmWalt, the government’s argument will be along the lines that the Military Commission Bill removes federal jurisdiction to ever hear the cases. If the courts accept that argument, then the government can, by statute, nullify the constitution and prevent the courts from ever hearing a challenge by stripping federal jurisdiction over the issue.
Things are going to get real ugly, real soon. Watch for a great hue and cry against “activist judges.”
October 16th, 2006 at 7:02 pmbs – #61 ~ Zooey’s having fun, no time to stop now!
Comment by RUCerious — October 16, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
that’s fair if zooey is enjoying herself. the filth coming out of his mouth——damn.
Comment by bs
I know its not the real ren and Zooey.
Comment by ForTruth
No! Zooey was not enjoying herself. Zooey was at work.
October 16th, 2006 at 9:07 pmWhat the f*ck was going on?
My apologies, TP.
This is the first thread that even comes close to addressing the Military Commissons bill.
Thank you.
October 17th, 2006 at 12:29 amBut, BnF, what line in the Constitution allows the Legislative branch to remove provisions stated therein (including Executive approval or Legislative override) or enforcement by the Executive except via the amendment process. The C&B provisions of the Constitution remove the Judiciary from the process other than ruling on the validity of the law based on the wording contained within the Constitution itself and its Amendments.
October 17th, 2006 at 12:59 amIf the Supremes were replaced with nine programmers, the justice system at that level could decide on millions of cases each session with zero errors.
As a former, yet congressionally mandated US Navy Chief Petty Officer, that retired in 2003 from a 25 year honorable and distingushed career, I am deeply saddened and outraged at the ALMOST complete and total pacifism of the United States Citizens of this country.
I spent 25 years of my 47 years on this very planet upholding and defending both the US itself and specifically, the constitutiion of the US. I would still gladly die in defense of our once Great Nation.
We the People need to exercise our right as We the People, and select a government that we decide.
No where have I seen any request or demand for accountability from any of our represenatives up to and including the President himself.
The American people ourselves, and that includes me, have allowed politics and the very representatives to do pretty much as they please.
That includes both parties.
To me, the entire current administration, 80% of the senate and 80% of congress (conservatively) needs to go home. The vast majority are corrupt, above the law, have little honor, zero accountability or are just plain incompetant. PERIOD.
The only right or wrong here is what will each of you do about it?
Complacancy or complicity is the same as doing nothing.
Seeing that in almost all the upcoming elections in my State, I only have a choice of democrat or republican in over 80% of the offices up for election.
Nevermind that this is not my vision of a democratic society.
I will vote democrat in all elections and NOT because I’m a democrat, but because we need to reign-in and counterbalance this current president. I hope (this is a big hope) that by voting Democrat that one of the many bills being or already introduced will finally get the current president and vice president impeached. If Cheny is allowed to become president, then its really over. They both have to go at the same time. Then you fire SecDef and start cleaning-up.
Just my thoughts in this most important time of American history.
October 17th, 2006 at 7:10 amMy allegience, loyalty and dedication to this country and the constitution will never waiver.
Note the statement, to my country and to the constitution, not to the government when the government becomes destructive.
I defy anyone to question my patriotism to the United States of America.
Any better ideas than please post. I ‘ll read and consider almost all. Nov 7th is right around the corner.
Take care, Be Safe and God Bless America
H Deal
Chief Petty Officer
United States Navy (ret)
#27 Kindness – Yes, I have voted for a Democrat before. And I will be voting for a Democrat for the Senate in this election. I go for someone who seems to have a plan that goes along with the way I think. Of course to you people I sound right-wing. But that is becuase you are so far left you can even imagine the middle.
#30 hellinabucket – So your saying every singe Lt. Cmdr is correct and we should listen to what every one of them says? Your not dumb are you? Take a pole of them and I will bet you find this is a minority situation. So then you must think like most military.
To everyone else who keeps mentioning constitutional rights – These are not American citizens. If you want to talk about human rights then fine. But the point you idiots keep missing is the American citizens have the constitutional rights. You idiots keep trying to give constitutional rights to enemies that we are at war with. But then your type like to enjoy American freedoms and constitutional rights without any knowledge of how to defend them. Pathetic America hating comunist. Don’t put my life at risk.
October 17th, 2006 at 8:31 amUnfortunately, if I were Swift, I wouldn’t be so sure that the Supreme Court is going to do the right thing. Let’s remember that in 2004, when Jose Padilla’s case was brought before the Supreme Court, only a 5-to-4 majority decided the verdict critiquing Bush administration policy and stating that Padilla would either have to be charged or set at liberty — and this was apparently based partially on the fact that he was far from anything which could be considered a battlefield at the time of his arrest. One would have thought that considering Padilla was an American citizen, more justices would have supported the view that his detention (without charge, without trial, without access to legal counsel) was unconstitutional since it was a flagrant violation of his Constutional rights of due process as guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment and to legal counsel and speedy trial as guaranteed by the Sixth — however, this was not the case.
Parenthetically, Padilla’s case is particularly interesting when you consider the reports by the Southern Poverty Law Center to the effect that following 9-11, at least one serious potential terrorist plot involving a weapon of mass destruction but without ties to Islam has been uncovered within the United States — a Texas man with ties to white supremacist movements was discovered to have in his possession a cache of sodium cyanide large to kill everyone within a 30,000 square foot building in addition to more than 100,000 rounds of ammunition. He was sentenced to 11 years in prison. This seems to beg a couple of important questions — why did this story go virtually unreported in the mass media? And more importantly…why was this man charged and tried in accordance with his rights whereas Padilla was not? Terrorism is terrorism, surely…or is it? Why is a white supremacist in clear possession of what would otherwise be considered a weapon of mass destruction entitled to a trial whereas a Latino convert to Islam in possession of nothing more than an alleged plan is not? It suggests to the critical eye that the Bush administration has a double standard when it comes to terrorism — which implies that perhaps in their minds, whether they acknowledge it or not, the real source of the crime is not plotting a terrorist act but being a Muslim.
In any case, since 2004, O’Connor has stepped down from the bench and Rehnquist has died — to be replaced by Samuel Alito and John Roberts. Unless Roberts and Alito both decide to pull a Souter on Dubya (which hardly seems likely, especially in Alito’s case), I don’t think we can count on them voting to overturn — and it’s a pretty safe bet that Thomas and Scalia won’t either. That gives you your minority four right there — which means that if even one more justice decides not to declare it unconstitutional, the Military Commissions Act remains on the books.
Still confident that the Supreme Court will overturn? I’m not — not by a long chalk…
October 17th, 2006 at 10:23 amZooey, someone was taking your name (and Ren’s) in vain. Your sex life, as related to Juan C., was being discussed. We all knew it wasn’t you guys.
October 17th, 2006 at 11:43 amAll you babies crying for impeachment forgot some people in your list of condemnation. Kennedy, Ginsburg, Souter, Stevens, and Breyer.
Congress specifically removed the Supreme Court jurisdiction from this matter as allowed under the Constitution, Article III, Section II, Clause II. “…the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.”
The dippy-five totally ignored the Congress and the Constitution.
Try being consistent at least.
October 17th, 2006 at 12:16 pmFor Bluestocking #79:
October 17th, 2006 at 12:23 pmDo you happen to have any more info on the man in Texas with sodium cyanide. I never anything of the sort.
Anybody psoting any info on this would be greatly appreciated.
Take care, Be safe,
Chief Petty Officer
United States Navy (ret)
You can find a full list of Senators and Representatives who voted for this travesty of legislation at: Treason 2006
October 17th, 2006 at 1:24 pmBluestocking an all,
Nix the request about #79. Found it easily enough. In plain sight when you know where to look for it. The whole point being, a citizen should have known about this. When politics overides the safety or information to its citizens, its time for that government to be abolished.
Does any of the below ring a bell with any other Americans out there?
Second paragraph is germane.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Take care, be very safe and God Bless America,
October 17th, 2006 at 1:51 pmChief Petty Officer
United States Navy (ret)
Bluestocking #79
…I remember seeing a tiny blurb about the madman racist in Texas…
…these are the REAL terrorist threats in this country…
…the Aryan Nations, and Church of the Creator white supremacist hate groups…
…but you can’t tell EVANGELICRITES and other so-called social CONservatives that…
October 17th, 2006 at 3:17 pmPassing legislation in the hopes that it will be overturned by a different body is a classic example of “diffused responsibility,” or more accurately a shirking of responsibility. People die as a result of this. Remember Kitty Genovese, anyone?
October 17th, 2006 at 4:58 pmChief petty officer #84 Yes, I recently re read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights because it had been way too long. I wish all would notice that it says ‘all men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights…….. Not just citizens ..all men , and I take that to mean all human beings.
October 17th, 2006 at 5:02 pmMelissa,
In this you are absolutely 100% correct and it was my mistake for not pointing this out. Also, I agree with you.
I failed to mention this as I assumed we were, or I least I was, talking US politics and policies. Forgive my error in this as no predjudice or malice was intended.
I would also implore all who read this to do as you have done and re-read these living and great documents by our founding fathers of the United States. These men, and I’m sure supported by great women too behind them, were so forward thinking and wrote an utterly amazing foundation to our (once) Great Nation.
Remembering back for those of us who are old enough, remeber when the USA was such a great nation that almost every other nation wanted to be like us, come and stay with us, wanted to emulate us. They revered us and praised us for our democracy and leader of and as a free nation.
Look at us now. We have few, if any true allies. And the ones that profess themselves as allies are really there to see just what they can get from us. They certainly do not trust us. Heck, I wouldn’t either given the disgrace and dishonesty that has wracked our government overall.
Again, it goes back to accountability. There is none other than what our current collective government claims. We do not hold them accountable for their actions, in-actions, outright lies and scandals.
We the people are just as culpable in our nations demise and fall from greatness. We have more enemies today than we have ever had.
And you know what, rightfully so. Look what we as a nation have allowed to happen. Put yourself in almost any other country’s shoes. Would you trust us? Not me. We need to litterally fix our own country befroe we even attempt to help (and thats’ a nice word) other countries. I mean first, fix our govt, then our own people before we pretend to help others under the hypocracy of democracy and freedom.
We have allowed ourselves to become a bully by military power and financial power. And by the way, the US financial power is not all its cracked-up to be. Fragile beyond imagination. We’re actually way past broke and in-debt in an understatement. That’s another subject entirely.
We the people have a right and an obligation to fix our own government from within. Ask yourself this, will the government fix itself? Do you really think so?
October 17th, 2006 at 6:22 pmOnly each individual American out there can answer that for themselves.
It always has been about what the MAJORITY of Americans want. If the majority is strong enough and willing enough, then the majority will prevail. The majority will always prevail. If we do exercise our rights as a majority, then we get whatever the powers that be inflict upon us.
I believe in God, but would probably not be considered religious. I will however use a religious and well known quote’
“You shall reap what you sew”
Take care, be safe and God Bless America
Chief Petty Officer
US Navy (ret)
Here’s the article on the racist arrested with the cyanide.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=378
October 17th, 2006 at 8:33 pmBob,
Thank-you kindly for this one of many articles on the Texas man and WMD. I found some artilces, but none to match a face to the crime.
Just amazing that this happened and was not reported in any mainstream media. Heck, I was still active duty with a Secret clearance and quite active in Force Protection issues, veiwing at least twice weekly intelligence reports and never saw anything. May have been because I was stationed overseas at the time but that ’s a big maybe. That’s all I can say or will say about that.
This just begs the question, the US Govt from the top down, obviously knew of this, yet chose to say nothing to the general public, even in Texas. So politics, party standing or presidential standing takes precedence over safety of US citizens.
I understand the politics of it. I mean while the USA is searching for WMD in Iraq, a form of a WMD turns-up in the transplanted and professed home state of the current acting President. Quite schocking indeed. Potentially hurtful to the preception of doing a good job. How does that trump/override of informing the very citizens our representatives swore to protect?
Sure the guy is pretty much an extremist as the evidence suggests. So what? An internal threat from inside our own nation is a greater threat than from outside it!
Ask any warfighter or law enforcement officer which threat they would rather fight. I bet a nickel to a dollar, each semi-intelligent and average competent warfighter or law enforcement officer will tell the one from outside! The ones inside are the MOST DANGEROUS.
Remember the sentence above.
I’m not claiming or professing any accusations. I just would like answers and again, that word, accountability keeps popping-up.
Are decisions at the top of our ELECTED and FREE government being steered by politics or genuine concern for citizens?
I have already formed my answer to that very question on the days after 9/11. I have cemented that answer in the now, years after 9/11 and prior to 9/11, due to the overwhelming evidence and lack of answers.
Each American citizen must decide for themself what they choose to believe and whom they intend to support. They SHOULD also decide how they choose to live their time here on earth, under what type of government and what type of living conditions. I view, my opinion, the majority of my countrymen and women as having a “not wanting to rock the boat attitude”, or “I’m one person so I cannot do anything”.
That is their right as an Amercian citizen.
I do profess as I have above, that the Majority will always prevail.
What does the Majority of hard-working Americans really want?
Good question.
As you may or may not have noticed, I like to close with SOMEONE elses’ immortal or famous words / quotes.
The reason being we learn alot from history.
To that end, I will use one of the most read, studied, and practiced pieces of literature, maybe even moreso than any religous books or the bible, from arond 450 – 500 B.C. I’ll also add a famous quote from a well-known world leader and then finally (yes, I’ll stop) close with two questions?
Sun Tzu, “The Art of War”.
“All warfare is based on deception”.
Winston Churchill:
“In war-time, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.”
My question:
What formal declared war are we in?
Will terrorists REALLY ever be eradicated from our earth, and if so, what terroristic leader or group of leaders will sign some piece of legislation that ends this conflict? (sorry, that’s three questions!)
As always, take good care, be safe and God Bless America,
October 18th, 2006 at 4:02 amH Deal
Chief Petty Officer
United States Navy (ret;2003)
this guy should be the C/O of the Navy’s JAG office or the Secretary of War of the united States.
or better yet the attorney general of the united States. anythings better than those g/d criminals in the present administration.
i hope everyone enjoys torture because this Mil. Comm. Act of 2006 authorizes it in our [America's] name. even the chidren are included for torture, if it produces “good intel.” [pentagon's "copper green program"]
if this signifies that the torture of children is necessary to prevent a nuclear event, then please God, let our enemies launch!
“its all for the children”
but then again, the abuse of children is what the “Franklin cover-up” and the present “Abramhoff” congressional scandal is all about.
make me wistfully think of Lee Greenwood’s song “i’m proud to be an american where atleast i know i’m free…etc…” ahh the halcyon days….
“in a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary idea”
Robert Carr
October 18th, 2006 at 8:16 amUpper Darby, Pennsylvania
[...] Swift spoke forcefully against the detainee legislation the House and Senate approved in September. “Unfortuantely,” Swift said, Congress did “exactly what Justice Kennedy told them not to do” and passed “legislation that was done in the heat of the moment.” “I don’t believe that it’s going to match constitutional muster when the courts have …read more | digg story [...]
October 18th, 2006 at 10:39 amRobert Carr #91,
In reference to #91 post, if that is about me, then I am quite flattered and I sincerely thank-you kindly!
I would not like any of the jobs / positions that you suggest, but if I were to find myself in any of them, I would perform and execute those duties as I did my job in the US Navy, with Honor, Courage and Commitment, the
core values of the US Navy.
I actually considered running for congress about 7 months ago because I was so fed-up with our current system of legislative processes.
After numerous emails to my congressman, other state Senators and including the governer, I actually wrote a couple of handwritten letters to boot. Lo and behold, not one reply to any of my concerns from any of them.
Not one email and not even an automated reply (brush-off) that either one of my duly elected representatives would even respond to.
I was incensed to say the least.
And the rest of the story…… hindsight in retrospect is wonderful if only we could imagine.
Just so happens that the particular congressional seat I was considering was recently vacated (resigned) too! My home state of Florida. Need I say more. Not to say anthing would come of it as I have only my Navy experience from which to draw from. But never in any wildest imagination could someone have seen this coming, well any outsiders anyway.
My life history could easily have stood-up to scrutiny. Yes, I smoked pot as a juvenile AND I DID INHALE. I had a DWI on my 16th birthday and had my FL divers license for less than 24 hours. It was taken away for a year. I went AWOL in the Navy as a junior enlisted man (had over three years in and was stupid) and got captain’s mast / non-judicial punishment for it. And rightfully so.
I’d say by todays’ standards I would almost be considered an angel!
Bottom line here is that I was held accountable for my actions. I then learned from my mistakes and have never repeated them again.
Too many people in general, feel inferior or less than socially accepted I guess, for lack of a better phrase, to admit to OTHERS that they made a mistake. I guess it makes them look bad in the eyes of others.
I say and believe it is a better person and human being that can first admit, then correct if able, their mistakes, learn from it and move-on. Of course I’m talking about real mistakes and not intentional, willfull, malicious with intent crimes and acts of deception.
Which leads me to my last point. In our two party political system that is just as bad on both sides, so I am not singling-out any one party, why should not the American people elect representatives that have little or no political experience but a good dose of common sense?
Can you honesly say that these little or zero experience people cannot do the job? I believe (generally) that people who initially run for office have sound principles and desire to truly do their jobs to the best of their ability. I think the senior politicians that seem to be embedded in office, make it difficult for the up and coming and this is where the majority of corruption and manipulation and trashing the process takes place. The mystique of being a politician is just that, made-up and fabricated to be hard.
Hell, how hard is it truly, for any group of rational people to sit down and discuss ONE PIECE OF LEGISLATION at a time. Currently they pile amendment, upon rider, upon additional piece of pork or whatever so noone can make since of it. Herein is the root cause of the problem.
For a base salary of $165,000 with a 2% pay raise every year, unless specifically voted against not to accept it, I think that for our tax dollars, congress should should the heck down for how ever long it takes, and hash-out one piece of legislation at a time. If they cannot solve their differences, why adjourn and go home? Isn’t this what they are paid to do?
I know of no representative that states I want this job for the pay!
Do you expect this of your representatives. I certainly do.
When I was active duty, AS A SERVANT FOR THE UNITED STATES by choice, do you think I or any of my fellow service men and women, left when the job was not done? “Heck, Frank or Susie, we accomplished nothing today, the enemy will be there tomorrow, let’s go home”!
I’m sure the average and uninformed American would be shocked to learn just how long and hard these elected representatives actually work during the year. To get an idea, just look it up under the offical roll calls during
a scheduled session. These are scheduled sessions when they are required to be there. This will give an idea of just how much they actually don’t do.
Accountability, Ladies and Gentlemen. Zero, zip, nada.
Where is any leader that tells them to sit back down and do not come out till you have done something?
Heck, you have congressman and senators telling the public BEFOREHAND, that we will not be able to reach a solution to YADA YADA and so and so before we break. Guess what? Start earlier!
I’m sorry, what is your job? Your supposed sole job is as a duly elected representative. Represent me!
Ok, I’ll come down from my soapbox now.
Time for a change.
Talking and communicating about it amongst ourselves does nothing.
Tell your representatives. I have. Nicely, politely, bluntly and then vehemently. It has done nothing tangible.
What will happen next is entirely up to the majority of Americans that actually care about this country.
I’m stumped and devoid of a meaninglful and appropriate quote.
Take care, be safe and God Bless America,
October 18th, 2006 at 11:08 amH Deal
Cheif Petty Officer
United States Navy (ret)
I noticed the numbering on this site changing. People are replying to numbers on posts that haven’t occurred in the post yet. Your TP (Toilet Paper) site is editing, removing or should I say censoring our conversations. Boy, your left wing agenda site is showing its true colors now. Here is an example -
#48 replies to #51
#52 and #53 both reply to #61
#56 to #64
So much for free thought and discussion. You people are a joke.
October 19th, 2006 at 8:19 am