Containing North Korea the Old Fashioned Way
Containing North Korea the Old Fashioned Way
This week, China put pressure on North Korea’s mercurial dictator, Kim Jung Il, apparently winning a pledge to not conduct another nuclear test. If it stands, this is the first good news to come from Secretary of State Condoleeeza Rice’s travel to Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, and Moscow drumming up support for the U.N. Security Council’s economic sanctions and trade interdiction package.
North Korea also appears ready to make concessions, the Chinese say, if the United States does as well. Sanctions and tough diplomacy cannot force the regime to collapse — in part because neither China nor South Korea want the chaos of a collapsed state — but they can prod the North Koreans back to the negotiating table.
This is how hard-nosed diplomacy should proceed in the face of North Korean intransigence. The question is: What took so long? It was clear over a year ago that President Bush’s “regime change” strategy for dealing with the “axis of evil” was a failure. And it’s been clear for some time that a tough, but more nuanced approach, could work — witness the success of negotiations with Libya stretching over three administrations that resulted in a deal that “cost little, caused no deaths, and was 100 percent effective.”
The United States must now be prepared to implement the agreement struck in the six-party talks last September: security assurances and economic assistance in exchange for a complete, verifiable dismantlement of the nuclear program. We should all encourage the realists within the Bush administration to get back to basics.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Good Morning all, Could someone please tell me who in this administration is a realists?…..My view is, they are all war mongers, how friggin real is that, deadly yes, profateers yes again but realists is not what they are…Creationests and changing their theme to suit their never ending greed is more like it…….Blessings
October 21st, 2006 at 10:05 amNK was given assurances, financial aid, nuclear technology aid and humanitrarian aid yet they continued a course that brought us to the present time.
why would they change if given exactly what they already had before.
China holds the chips, not the US……let China and South Korea offer financial and humanitarian aid….it’s in their interest to have a non-beligerent NK.
I bought into the Clinton approach and fully supported it, but NK did not honor the agreement and have resorted to extortion to get back what they already had.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:06 amNK produced no plutonium during the years that Clinton was president — unlike the Poppy and GDumbya years. Clinton diplomacy did work. Let’s just hope that our current Presidunce recognizes that and finally acts accordingly rather than rattling his little sabre or lapsing back into a drunken stupor as he has done for the past six years.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:31 amChina made the job well done, something the US wasn’t able to do. Once again the citizens of the Uniteds States have to be grateful for the chinese, for that and for holding so much of the US public debt :-S
October 21st, 2006 at 10:35 amrichb:
October 21st, 2006 at 10:38 amWe reneged on the agreement. They resumed their course.
And an agreement with a bad actor like NK is not one you do nothing about and then get all incensed when they don’t ‘honor’ the agreement.
That’s why we have a State Department. Continuous monitoring, continuous pressure, continuous cajoling, continuous threat. That’s how agreements with these kinds of people actually work.
Let’s see how long it takes for Bushleague or Condeliar to take credit for China’s progress with NK, and of course our ‘liberal’ media will be right there to correct them (yeah right).
October 21st, 2006 at 10:39 am#5 I fully hope you are correct.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:46 am#3 even members of the Clinton administration agreed NK didn’t honor the agreements in place, as did China and SK.
Yes diplomacy works if both partners want the same. If we put exactly on the table the same Clinton agreement I do not believe NK would honor it fully, they have shown no capacity to be trusted.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:51 amIf we put exactly on the table the same Clinton agreement I do not believe NK would honor it fully, they have shown no capacity to be trusted.
Comment by richb — October 21, 2006 @ 10:51 am
Reality dictates that you are incorrect. You are certainly free to diverge from reality and ‘believe’ anything you want. In order to expect other people to view your ‘belief’ as credible, you must back it up with facts. I see none. Just your need to ‘believe’.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:59 amDiplomacy always works, but the Bush Regime knows nothing about such things! They only know how to start wars and cause places like Iraq to become cesspools of death! Bush is very evil!
October 21st, 2006 at 11:04 amWhat is with the white screen thing before posting?
October 21st, 2006 at 11:06 amDiplomacy always works
Comment by Jay Randal — October 21, 2006 @ 11:04 am
As someone who spends my day with teenagers, I agree. I get them to do their work, not by yelling, threatening or condescention – but by diplomacy. If it works with hormonal 16-18 year olds, it should work with other grown adults.
I think one of the many dangers of the Bush Regime is that they have zero awareness or respect for other cultures. And that being ignorant to this knowledge makes you unable to solve anything peacefully. This is EXACTLY why we need a President who has his or her eyes open to the fact that we share a planet with a diversity of cultures, religions, and skin colors.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:09 am#12. “If it works with hormonal 16-18 year olds . . . ”
The problem is that at least one side of the negotiation must be conducted by an adult. We all know that Kim Jong Il is a madman not unlike a hormonal 16 to 18-year-old. The chief difficulty, though, is that GDumbya is one as well. His emotional and intellectual development was arrested in his youth when he first started drinking and snorting coke. He has never recovered from that.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:28 amunbelievable I agree with your post 12 > working out problems rationally is always the smart thing to do > threats just cause violence and wars > imagine if instead of using diplomacy with your students, you threatened to kill them all > that would make you look crazy and your students would retaliate > Bush acts like a petulent child who never got taught right from wrong, so he is filled with stupidity and hatred for everybody > he must resign or be impeached > PERIOD.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:33 amHis emotional and intellectual development was arrested in his youth when he first started drinking and snorting coke. He has never recovered from that.
Comment by Tom — October 21, 2006 @ 11:28 am
True… Sad that this kind of person was ever elected to any office. I’m not convinced he was elected President, as Al Gore actually was elected in 2000, and the results of Ohio are highly suspect in 2004. But still, nearly 60 million people actually voted for a man who is as articulate as a ice cube – and as equally as intelligent. What is wrong with people?
Diplomacy worked on Kim Jong Il under Clinton, so therefore, I’m inclined to accept that the variable in the system that is inept is just Global Warming Bush himself. Kimmie might be a spoiled rotten brat, but he’s shown himself to capable of behaving when someone treats him like the demi-god he thinks he is. Okay, maybe more like a first grader than a high school student…. :)
October 21st, 2006 at 11:35 amBush acts like a petulent child who never got taught right from wrong, so he is filled with stupidity and hatred for everybody > he must resign or be impeached > PERIOD.
Comment by Jay Randal — October 21, 2006 @ 11:33 am
My boss was a teacher for 23 years before becoming an Administrator. One of her bits of wisdom goes “Rules and Regulations with Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion”. I know it’s meant to apply to school kids – but I think it works across the board with most people…
Bush’s mother should be ashamed of herself for raising such a terrible human being.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:38 amBush’s mother should be ashamed of herself for raising such a terrible human being.
Comment by unbelievable
Absolutely. Mama Bush set up her baby psycho for the mother of all rebellions — and thousands upon thousands have died for it. And he has ruined this country.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:45 am“Rules and Regulations without Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellionâ€.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:45 amunbelievable > those who knew George W. Bush at Yale, and were fellow students with him in classes said that he was very rude and would say stupid things > when corrected he still would refuse to change his view > he should have been kicked out of Yale, but his daddy had connections to keep him there > he was raised a spoiled brat and still acts like one now > Barbara is responsible for the horrible person he has become > she even believed his sticking firecrackers in frog’s asses to blow them up was funny > no wonder Bush is mentally ill and unfit to be president!
October 21st, 2006 at 11:50 amPlease people -
Babs may have been to blame for his initial turnout. he is to blame for continuing his bad behavior. There comes a time in every persons life when they need to accept responsibility for what they do. When an individual has attained the age of 60 and still has not changed their bad behavior, they are to blame, not the parents.
October 21st, 2006 at 11:55 amAnd he has ruined this country.
Comment by Zooey — October 21, 2006 @ 11:45 am
You’re absolutely right. You know, I think I’m still in shock about that though. I studied Political Science in college, like everyone else, and I learned about the ‘checks and balances’ built into the system that was supposed to prevent this sort of thing. And yet, in 6 short years, one idiot has managed to screw up a legacy that’s withstood 230 years so far.
I try not to do hate, but Bush deserves all the resentment and animosity he gets.
October 21st, 2006 at 12:00 pmJules > you are partly right, but Barbara is the person he seeks advice from > he hardly ever talks to his dad > his mother seems to have a mental illness herself, so her advice keeps her son retarded and dangerous to America > she tells him he is perfect and knows everything, when actually he is severely incompetent!
October 21st, 2006 at 12:01 pmshe even believed his sticking firecrackers in frog’s asses to blow them up was funny > no wonder Bush is mentally ill and unfit to be president!
Comment by Jay Randal — October 21, 2006 @ 11:50 am
Great, Commander Sociopath was encouraged to be a violent and ruthless jerk? Explains why he approves of torture. To him frog, Muslim – same difference. Appalling. Utterly appalling…
October 21st, 2006 at 12:05 pmJules,
Not saying Bush is without accountability – just that the person who started him off on that path – his mother – should feel responsible for not teachinghim to respect others.
He is wholly responsible for what he does now. But had he been born to people who disciplined and guided him, he probably wouldn’t be making the same choices that he’s making now.
October 21st, 2006 at 12:08 pmBushCo is incapable of true diplomacy, which requires nuance, a willingness to see beyond either-or terms, a willingness and ability to accept the perspective of another side, and a willingness to compromise. For BushCo it is “my way or the highway”, so it should not be surprising that North Korea took the highway.
October 21st, 2006 at 12:11 pmNotice no American rep was at the meeting with China/North Korea. Now if I were a betting person I would say China and North Korea made a deal. Look for China to get the plans of the nuke built by North Korea. Yes family stick together. Knowing Connie is stupid and Bush is an idiot China/North Korea/Japan can play them like a piano. All smiles and I’m sorry and Bush sucks it up like the dumb cowboy he is. Don’t think that Iran isn’t looking to have a long meeting with North Korea too. Bush is some President he now has more countries having and getting nukes then ever before. Plus countries that were enemies are now friends. Yes the world thinks Americans are dumb for having an incompetent President as we always had such educated smart Presidents in the pass. The world loves Americans and hate Bush but they feel sorry for us now.
October 21st, 2006 at 12:14 pmJoe Cirincione–
October 21st, 2006 at 12:16 pmYou said China put pressure on Kim Il Sung—he’s the FATHER of the current despot, Kim Jung Il.
This is what we pay these guys to do. I will consider it on the next performance evaluation.
October 21st, 2006 at 12:45 pmLet’s get some real leadership and real oversight in Congress…
Kirsten Gillibrand Congressional Candidate in NY-20,
… will be live-blogging today in the Blue America fund-raising series at:
Firedoglake
Saturday, Oct. 21
2:00 PM eastern
Please come meet Kirsten for yourself at 2:00 PM!
Peace,
Andrew
October 21st, 2006 at 1:21 pmKirsten Gillibrand Congressional Candidate in NY-20,
… will be live-blogging today in the Blue America fund-raising series at:
Firedoglake
Saturday, Oct. 21
2:00 PM eastern
Please come meet Kirsten for yourself at 2:00 PM!
Peace,
Andrew
October 21st, 2006 at 1:22 pmDoesn’t Mr. Cirincione mean “Kim Jong Il”? Because I believe Kim Il Sung is dead…Honest mistake I’m sure but nonetheless
October 21st, 2006 at 1:23 pmNo oil, no war.
October 21st, 2006 at 1:26 pmI think NK is just Communist Chinese’s puppet. NK’s nuke, missle tech come from Chinese. They feed NK and ask NK act what they want. They willing surrender NK if we give up Taiwanese.
“cost little, caused no deaths, and was 100 percent effective.â€
October 21st, 2006 at 2:12 pmUSA !
October 21st, 2006 at 2:26 pmNow stop talking that nonsense. Until we Nuke NK, and China for that matter, terrerism will prevent us from being free.
Laws requiring anything other than normal registration to vote are entirely unamerican, invariably introduced by Republicans seeking solely to marginalize potential Democratic voters just prior to elections, and have an obvious and odious discriminatory impact on the poor, seniors, and minorities, who are less likely to have drivers licenses and less likely to have ID cards.
Objections to voter “verification” provisions are grounded in history as well as contemporary evidence. During their day, poll taxes and literacy tests, which were also said to protect against fraud and breed confidence in elections, had the direct effect of erecting a barrier to minority voters.
Civil Rights Divisions in all localities should actively and vigorously throw these laws out as they constitute violations of the Voting Rights Act, intervening to preempt discriminatory voter identification provisions which, if implemented, constitute inflexible measures for screening prospective voters and mandating government-issued identification at the polls. These burdensome identification requirements fall well within the historical line of barriers to the ballot box and should be subject to intense scrutiny during the Voting Rights Act Section 5 (preclearance) process and further review under Section 2 of the Act as a discriminatory voting practice or procedure (42 U.S.C. ¡ì 1973b).
Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act (42 U.S.C.A. ¡ì 1973c) was passed for the express purpose of ensuring that jurisdictions with a history of discrimination against minority voters would be subject to vigorous oversight by the Justice Department and guaranteeing that this terrible history would never be repeated. Proposed new voter identification provisions are covered by Section 5 and are subject to immediate review. Under Section 5, any change with respect to voting in a covered jurisdiction – or any political subunit within it – cannot legally be enforced unless and until the jurisdiction first obtains preclearance. Further, preclearance requires proof that the proposed voting change does not deny or abridge the right to vote on account of race, color, or membership in a language minority group.
Poll taxes and literacy tests, which were also said to protect against fraud and breed confidence in elections had the direct effect of erecting a barrier to minority voters. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 specifically outlawed these and other similar devices because they could be arbitrarily administered by local registrars and state officials in a discriminatory manner. Requiring government-issued identification at the polling place inevitably creates similar barriers and hurdles for racial and ethnic minority voters and has a chilling effect on voter participation.
The negative effect of these provisions has been widely recognized at the state and federal level.
The Federal Elections Commission noted in its 1997 report to Congress that identification entails major expenses, both initially and in maintenance, and presents an undue and potentially discriminatory burden on citizens in exercising their basic right to vote. The burden of this requirement falls disproportionately and unfairly upon racial and ethnic minority voters, as well as voters with disabilities, since a disproportionate number have neither identification nor the financial means to acquire it.
On November 5, 2001 a federal court prohibited the use of an identification requirement, with an alternative signature attestation option, at the polls in Lawrence, Massachusetts. Both the Department and private plaintiffs argued, and the court found, that “the burden imposed by this requirement will fall disproportionately on the Latin American community, thereby violating Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. ¡ì 1973.”
The Department of Justice has taken issue with identification requirements for having a discriminatory impact on minority voters. In the City of Lawrence case, the Department noted that, “our experience in jurisdictions around the country suggests that minority voters – especially those who do not have the required identification with them at the polls …may be disproportionately disadvantaged by such (identification) requirements, either by difficulties at the polling place or by fears of such mishaps that make them unwilling to go to the polls.
In a directly analogous case, the Department objected to the use of photo identification requirements without also permitting a signature attestation for first time voters under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act because it had a disparate impact on minority electoral participation. Since black voters were found four to five times less likely to have photo identification, the Department believed that this requirement would have a “retrogressive effect on the opportunities of black voters” and would likely “have a disproportionately adverse impact on black voters in the state.”
There are many voters who simply do not have identification and requiring them to purchase identification would be tantamount to requiring them to pay a poll tax. Moreover, the burden of this requirement falls disproportionately and unfairly upon racial and ethnic minority voters, as well as voters with disabilities, since a disproportionate number have neither identification nor the financial means to acquire it. A burden such as this, which disproportionately affects minorities, would clearly be retrogressive under Section 5 and not subject to preclearance.
All Americans of conscience should not and must not allow such obvious and discriminatory limitations on our basic voting rights to take effect, retrogressively setting back decades of progress and advancements of basic voting rights for all Americans. Thank you for your immediate attention to this extremely serious matter.
October 21st, 2006 at 3:00 pmBrush-cutter Bush may be hangin’ out and doin’ his brush-cutting on his new 70,000 hectacre spread on the Paraguayan pampas after the November Elections, unless the right-wing Diebold voting machines can be rigged so enough of the votes go to Republicans to give the GOP another “victory” in The House and The Senate.
Bush has such a weak ego and poor self-image that he cannot stand to be in the presence of anyone who disagrees with him about anything, so naturally he is totally incapable of discussing political differences with Koreans, Iranians or anyone else for that matter. He was too scared to even meet with Cindy Sheehan along a Crawford, Texas a year ago in the summer of 2005.
Cheers.
October 21st, 2006 at 3:52 pmthe upshot of all this is that both North Korea and the US are viewed as the problom, and China, as mediator between two irrational antagonistic entities is the winner.
Another bush regime failed foreign policy in action.
October 21st, 2006 at 4:54 pm.
Thank You Hand counted –
October 21st, 2006 at 5:01 pmNow back to our thread on voting in North Korea.
It’s crazy isn’t it, using diplomacy to achieve foreign policy goals? Surely the only way to resolve foreign problems is to send in the Marine corps of our respective governments?
Sarcasm aside, I remember growing up in the 1990’s when we protested about globalisation. How have we fallen so far in 10 years?
October 21st, 2006 at 5:56 pmLighting a firecracker in a frogs ass funny? I’ll tell you funny, a fire works display launched from the White House repugs asses. Now that is funny!
October 22nd, 2006 at 12:12 am[...] Containing North Korea the Old Fashioned Way [...]
October 22nd, 2006 at 11:18 amOne issue with your post: Isn’t Kim Il Sung dead? Are you talking about Kim Jong Il or is this historic?
October 22nd, 2006 at 1:00 pmJack
Nice work..
April 1st, 2008 at 1:59 amPreteen Preteen Pussy Model Pre Teen Underwear
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 7th, 2008 at 8:52 pmgovernment credit and travel cards credit checks
hmm.. interesting.. thanks
April 8th, 2008 at 8:26 am