Bartlett: ‘It’s Never Been A Stay The Course Strategy’
Bartlett: ‘It’s Never Been A Stay The Course Strategy’
On CBS this morning, White House Counselor Dan Bartlett claimed that the administration has “never” had “a stay-the-course strategy.” Watch it:
President Bush made the same claim over the weekend. It’s not true. For years, the White House has repeatedly described their Iraq policy as “stay the course.” Here’s the video evidence:
Transcripts:
Video 1
STORM: So, Mr. Bartlett, staying the course is no longer the operative strategy?
BARTLETT: Well, Hannah, it’s never been a stay-the-course strategy. Strategically, we think it’s very important that we stay in Iraq and we win in Iraq. And if we were to cut and run and go and leave that country too early it would be a disaster for American policy.
But what we aren’t doing is sitting there with our heads in the sand. We’ve completely changing and making tactical changes on a week-by-week basis as we respond to the enemy’s reactions to our strategies.
Video 2
BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05]
SNOW: The second thing you do is you stay the course. [7/10/06]
SNOW: But on the other hand, you also cannot be a President in a wartime and not realize that you’ve got to stay the course. [8/17/06]
BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]
BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course. [12/15/03]
BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We’ll stay the course. [4/13/04]
SNOW: People are going to want more of it, and that’s why the President is determined to stay the course. April. [8/16/06]
BUSH: And that’s why we’re going to stay the course in Iraq. And that’s why when we say something in Iraq, we’re going to do it. [4/16/04]
BUSH: And so we’ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04]
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
What I would give for any “newsman” out there to say “you’re blatantly lying.”
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:45 amNow THAT’S some weird stuff! How degrading for them!
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:45 amI agree with #1–why the f#ck won’t a news reporter simply say, “hey, we have a dozen examples of this…you’re full of shit”???
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:47 amReams of videotape give just one side of the story, apparently.
The barn door in Animal Farm never read “We will never lie to you.”
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:50 amBush is right. Blatant lying is hard work, especially in the face of direct evidence that you are lying.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:51 amPunchy — October 23, 2006 @ 9:47 am
In the famous words of Alan Colmes: If I called bullshit every time Hannity lied I’d be calling bullshit all the time. Where’s my paycheck? (Paraphrased)
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:53 amI get it! “Stay the course” has never been a strategy, IT’S BEEN A CAMPAIGN SLOGAN!
There never has been a strategy for success in Iraq!
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:56 amOk. NOW I believe it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:56 amWhats on TV, right now? Lets see…
This reminds me of Franken’s book,”Liars and the lying liars that tell them.”
Here we have a lying liar, lying for lying liars.
This is so clumsy, so pathetic, so blatantly a lie and so easily disproved.
It’s our banana republic media supporting our banana republican government in all their grand failures.
Way to go boys.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:59 amWho needs video - just look at this one quote:
Well, Hannah, it’s never been a stay-the-course strategy. Strategically, we think it’s very important that we stay in Iraq and we win in Iraq.
How can it be “strategically” anything, if it’s not the “strategy”?
We’ve completely changing and making tactical changes on a week-by-week basis as we respond to the enemy’s reactions to our strategies.
So, you have a “strategy” (”stay in Iraq”), an enemy’s reaction to that strategy, then “complete” tactical changes (consisting of unspecified and inconsequential variations on the original “stay in Iraq” strategy).
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:59 am“Oceania is at war with Eurasia. ”
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:00 am“Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.”
On CBS this morning, White House Counselor Dan Bartlett claimed that the administration has “never†had “a stay-the-course strategy.â€
Oh, and don’t forget, the Iraqi war has “never been about WMD’s” either
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:01 amI smell one of those Jon Stewart/TDS video montages coming on.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:01 amI’m patiently waiting for the defenders to back up what the president and memebers of his administration (Remember Snow discussing this recently too) have said about never being a stay the course policy…
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:02 amFlop sweat.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:03 amThink Nixon’s secret plan and pending election.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:03 amThis is about just what I thought yesterday when Bush said it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:04 amI think they have decided that “stay the course” has now come fully to mean….failed rigidity and stupid lock down in people’s minds. So they are saying “flexiility and change” were always embedded “within” the stay the course. They try to say things as simply as possible. They know they can’t just dump the phrase “stay the course” so they have to add a change TO IT. But guess what folks………no cigar. This time they lose. People are not going to think…..”ah……I thought of stay the course in the wrong way! Bullshit.
This one won’t fly. People will just say to themselves…duh ah …….liar…!
The devil made Linda Blair’s head spin in “The Exorcist”.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:05 amBushCo makes my head spin in “The Extraordinary Cyst”.
Are we just plain stupid? Huh? Is that what these clowns think? Un-freakin-believeable!!!!
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:06 amDo they think that video doesn’t exist? Or that we’ll just swallow whatever they want to shove down our throats? Lying bastards will get the message if we send in November 7th!
Sounds like the White House is cutting and running from “stay the course.”
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:06 amI agree with #1 and #3. There is little hope for this country when the news media will not challenge these bastards’ outright lies.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:07 amActually, what they’ve been saying for the past 3.5 years is “stay the coarse.”
It’s all about the civility.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:07 amI am reminded of a slip I read last week where W claimed this was not a change in strategy, but tactics, then said, I have to go to a strategy meeting with my generals.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:08 amDuh, er, whoops, Good Golly Miss Molly!
Yes, RUCerious, I think they do believe we are just that stupid. Afterall, they have their rock-solid 30% sheeple, and if you can fool some of the people all the time….well, you might just have a chance at fooling the rest of them, too.
SNAFU
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:09 amI believe the Nazis said something like ” If the lie is big enough, and told often enough, it will become truth”.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:11 amWTF? This isn’t 1984. You haven’t destroyed records. We haven’t completely forgotten the 8320948 times you’ve said it!
You really think we’re that stupid?!
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:12 amGodfryDaniel — October 23, 2006 @ 10:07 am
If you challenge the lies they don’t come on your show or they won’t let you into the press conferences. Maybe that’s how it should be, I don’t know. But the object is to get people on the record and then let their contradictions take them down.
This is why ThinkProgress does not discuss Democratic involvment in the Military Commissions Act…
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:15 amHow out of place do those two podiums look on that dirt road. One wasn’t enough? I’m sure we can dig up more of the “stay the course” moments in this President’s history.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:15 amBush never said “Stay the COurse”, he said “Stay the Corpse!”
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:16 amPresidential quotes - complete the following:
RR “Go ahead, make…”
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:17 amGB1 “Read my lips…”
BC “I did not have sex…”
GB2 “Stay the…”
This is the same news media we will rely on to tell us who wins the upcoming election. Even if the republicans lose, it will be reported that they won. End of game.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:18 am“THE STRUGGLE OF MAN AGAINST POWER IS THE STRUGGLE OF MEMORY AGAINST FORGETTING - MILAN KUNDERA
YOU HAVE WOKEN UP THIS MORNING IN THE UNITED SOVIET OF AMERICA
DASVIDANIA
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:19 amUSE THE FORCE JON STEWART
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:20 amWe have always been at war with EastAsia too.
-Dan Bartlett
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:21 amBush never said “Stay the COurseâ€, he said “Stay the Corpse!â€
Comment by RayFromGA
Or, as Briseadh na Faire once said: Stay the Coors.
Heh.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:21 amif i were a democratic strategist (Part 234):
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:21 amStay the course = Read My Lips
#32 In Soviet America, Presidents impeach you.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:21 amThe video of all those guys sayiing “stay the course” needs to end with a clip of Bush on MTPress saying “we were never stay the course”. Heck, throw Bartlett in there, too.
Then play that video over and over on every TV station you can find to play it. Get the DNCC to foot the bill. Get it on FOX if possible.
His base has got to be hit over the head to get their attention. I know, my Mom is one of them.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:24 amWhen you’re down a rabbit hole like ‘W’,
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:25 amthings just get curiouser & curiouser.
would you like the red or blue pill?
The president’s “stay the course” strategy is WRONG!!! He should be putting 2 to 3 times more troops in Iraq. It is time that we have a change. Hopefully after the midterms they will come to there senses and at least double the number of troops in Iraq, if not triple them.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:28 amStay the course, eat the apple pie, kiss the little babies, whatever. People hear nothing but lies from these jerks. They’re on the way out if the election is at all honest. If it isn’t, what do we do?
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:28 amtest
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:29 amSo if the opposition is for cut and run then how could they not be for stay the course?
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:29 amHONESTLY THIS SHOULD BE THE FINAL CATALYST FOR THE PERFECT STORM OF PROTEST AND OUTRAGE HONESTLY…..WHAT A [INSERT WORD HERE]
#37 AGREE BUT TOO OUTRAGED TO BE SCARED
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:29 amhellinabucket #28
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:29 amBush can’t share a podium withe likes of that clown, would have to use multiple dollups of hand sanitizer!
#39 Zimzone - Which pill has the Wild Turkey in it?
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:31 amRogerRoger, are you proposing to reinstitute the draft?
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:31 amI think the Bushies think if they can say something over and over and over and over and over again many, many times more then it will become truth among the denizens. Delusion is a wonderful thing … if you’re on LSD.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:33 amMan, I sometimes wish I had taken that blue pill instead so I could live happily ever after in their manufactured reality.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:34 amDan Bartlett and George Bush were for staying the course before they were against it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:35 amRoger*2 has a point. Until there are at least four American soldiers stationed in every Iraqi household, freedom hasn’t a chance.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:35 amThat way, if Dad makes a move for the fridge, he’s toast.
If mom wants to get her sewing basket, she can be frisked to make sure it doesn’t contain any IEDs.
Nothing less can bring freedom to the March!
Not surprisingly the truth to the WH crew is totally relative and removed completely from objective facts. It is a matter of pure conjecture that is made up from moment to moment. In less polite words it is pure bullshit and you are supposedly too stupid to know it. Talk of huberis, arrogance, and utter comtempt for the people who pay t hem. This whole crew deserve to be thrown out in the street with yesterday’s garbage.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:39 amRoger Roger
Approximately 35% of Americans adults continue to support Bush’s Iraq Fiasco. If everyone one of the them immediately volunteered to serve in the “stay the course” military operation, maybe there would be enough troops to secure Iraq. OK, you and all the other Kool-Aid consumers have the strategy…of course, AFTER Iraq is secure, then what? Ah, who cares, the rest of us Americans probably would learn to live without those 35% of American Bushies anyway.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:41 amJohn the Elder
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:41 amWouldn’t you rather wrap them up in a tidy garbage bag liner?
the stench of them rotting in the street would cause property values to plummet!!
Here is my take on the stay the course change of course. They are going to stay the course regardless. They need to continue to tell the rabid faithful that they are staying the course. This allows the radical right to hold onto the notion of toughness, assertiveness, certainty and righteousness that they believe they have and others don’t. But it is election time and they know that Iraq is a contentious issue. They know that people out here in the real world feel that stay the course is failing and will only lead to a worse situation developing. These same people are the ones who are willing to undergo some level of introspection on decisions they have made and are willing to change if that introspection dictates change. Bush needs to hit these voters and appear to be less rigid and more introspective. Thus we have the statements about never being a stay the course administration. We also have these various ideas about timetables for Iraq, withdrawing over the horizon etc… Those ideas being floated give the voters the impression that the White House is being introspective and genuinely searching for new ideas.
To me this is all election year politicking. I say wait till after the elections. I can almost guarantee that after the elections our new strategy in Iraq will be…stay the course until victory is achieved. This is a white house that continually states goals and or tactics as strategy and can not or will not tell what the strategy is. I say they will stay in Iraq doing the same thing because from day one the goal for Iraq was a long term US presence (permanent). All one needs to do is take a look at the PNAC website and you can figure out quite easily that as long as the PNAC has some control in the government we will not be leaving.
By the way Bill Mahr had a great bit the other day on think tanks and how when we figure out the advice they are giving is faulty advice we should stop taking the advice.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:42 amNo, it has been a blame the troops strategy.
Bush is blaming the troops in Iraq for the problems there. How so? Over the weekend Bush stated that the strategy in Iraq will not change but that the tactics are under review. In other words, the performance of the troops is under review. The problem, says Bush, is not the policy but the fault of those charged with implementing the policy (the troops).
Now I have said that this war has not been well generaled, laying the blame at the feet of the Generals that put their career ahead of doing what is best for America. But that blame is directed at the strategy rather than the tactics. Bush is claiming just the opposite. He is saying that the problem is not at the top but at the bottom (the troops).
How will the families of those that have and are serving in Iraq view this slap in the face? Only time will tell but this claim by Bush should not be allowed to stand.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:43 amJust a wee bit strange that my post with the link to the electronic voting story at the ABC News web site didn’t appear, then appeared belatedly in the middle of the posts listed here, then a few minutes later disappeared.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:44 amApproximately 35% of Americans adults continue to support Bush’s Iraq Fiasco. If everyone one of the them immediately volunteered to serve in the “stay the course†military operation, maybe there would be enough troops to secure Iraq.
This is a great post by PLC. Imagine if these 35% could convince either themselves, or their children, to volunteer and “fight the good fight” We then wouldn’t need the increase in troops lie Roger Roger suggests.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:48 amI wouldn’t hold your breath, tho
I see that the post is back. #32.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:48 amThe moral disconnect of lying for political purposes has been taken to new heights by Bush Republiclans. It’s one thing to lie about your policies, but it’s another to lie about being liars. When politicians contradict themselves more than their opponents do, they are acknowledging their failure, confusion and desperation. The reason they are lying is because the truth is an admission of incompetence.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:48 amNow post #32 is gone again. I guess the monitors can’t make up their minds about whether this Diebold-related story is too conspiratorial for their tastes.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:49 amThey say short term memory is the first to go… is Bush showing early signs of dementia or is this just part of his megalomania?
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:51 amRealScientist - The monitors were for Diebold links before they were against them.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:52 amlie Roger Roger suggests.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:52 amplease be aware that under my so called typing, I meant to type “like” not “lie”
sorry for the misunderstanding that my original post may have caused
#10 - good catch.
Even in Bartlett’s statement, he said that stay the course was their strategy. Notice how muddled his answer is. Iin one sentence he says it was never their strategy, just their strategic thinking. In the other, Bartlett says they change tactics when the enemy reacts to their changed strategies (which are really tactics).
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:56 amIsn’t stay in Iraq the same as stay the course? I think so.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:58 amAlways remember and never forget:
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:00 am”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
#40 - Hoping the same folks who have been in charge for 6 years will do something different. Now there’s a strategy. You want a change, you’ve got to make one. Don’t keep making the same mistake hoping for a different result!
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:08 amComment by Dane Janeiro — October 23, 2006 @ 11:00 am
I nearly forgot about that. Who said it? Bartlett?
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:09 am#
The president’s “stay the course†strategy is WRONG!!! He should be putting 2 to 3 times more troops in Iraq. It is time that we have a change. Hopefully after the midterms they will come to there senses and at least double the number of troops in Iraq, if not triple them.
Comment by Roger_Roger — October 23, 2006 @ 10:28 am
Where do we get the troops from? Are you saying we need a draft?
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:13 amDallas
Bush is blaming the troops in Iraq for the problems there. How so? Over the weekend Bush stated that the strategy in Iraq will not change but that the tactics are under review. In other words, the performance of the troops is under review. The problem, says Bush, is not the policy but the fault of those charged with implementing the policy (the troops).
This is typical Bush… blame everyone else for all his f**kups. This is why he doesn’t want to read any books about himself. He doesn’t want to know anything about himself, at least not from any objective point of view.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:13 amSo, since they are “reinventing the war in Iraq”… why doesn’t anyone ask them outright to admit all their actions have been a total failure for the past five years?
Like BushCo can tell you: failure is pretty damn profitable.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:13 am2009 prediction (Democratic House, Senate and President): Every one of the complacent media lackeys previously supporting this administration (you know which ones… just about all except for Olbermann) will say: “I was ALWAYS against this administration, but I was just following orders”… or something akin to that… Pathetic to be used by others so easily (for money)… What is that called again?
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:14 amthat “stay the course” montage is great- it needs to be all over the internet!
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:14 amA strategy is a long term plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal, as differentiated from a tactic or an immediate action employed to help achieve that goal.
Goal: Fat Cash for Halliburton
Strategy: Stay the Course… i.e., keep making fat cash for Halliburton
Tactic: Keep our troops fighting and dieing until the course is effectively stayed… i.e., all our tax dollars have been converted to fat cash for Halliburton.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:20 amI nearly forgot about that. Who said it? Bartlett?
Comment by Think+Half+Ass+Progress — October 23, 2006 @ 11:09 am
An unnamed official quoted in Ron Suskind’s book, The Price Of Loyalty.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:21 amshrub: The liberals have control of the media and have manipulated everything to seem like we have been saying we are going to stay the course.
We have been saying all along we are going to spay the horse ! Now everyone knows I don’t have a grasp of the english language so I might have slipped and said slay the horse or anything slightly similiar, so yes I might have even said stay the course a time or two but I didn’t mean it uh you know.
sway the source
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:21 amWow,
The republicans are lying? The republicans are denying they didn’t say something they said?
This really is news!!!
Seriously though, this is becoming the same old story that goes something like this:
Question: “Did you say x”
Bush Admin official: “I don’t think anyone said or even implied x”
Questioner then shows the tape that clearly shows they said x.
Bush Admin official: “I don’t think that anyone in the admin said this or means this.
And on and on and on….
Isn’t it amazing that we’ve been doing this sort of thing for the last six years and its only now that the American public is starting to understand the problem?
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:22 amWhere do we get the troops from? Are you saying we need a draft?
Comment by goose1 — October 23, 2006 @ 11:13 am
I asked this same question in comment #47. Well, RR, how about it? I want to get you on the record here in favor of the draft. And perhaps you can also predict what effect reinstituting the draft will have on the Bush administration and the GOP-controlled Congress.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:23 amAre the Republicans aware that with “modern” technology it is now possible to record sound and images and archive them for repeated and future reference? Not to mention the internets and tubes.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:24 amRogerRoger,
You should be the first to sign up for your plan.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:25 amWhere do we get the troops from? Are you saying we need a draft?
Comment by goose1 — October 23, 2006 @ 11:13 am
I say we have chicken hawk parties across America… and when they show up to revel in their own patriotism - we mist net em… whisk em off in patty wagons… and force em to serve on the front lines of the policies they’ve helped intact.
Shit I’d almost be up for sending ground troops into North Korea if that happened!
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:33 amRogerRoger,
Both of you please sign up.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:35 amImagine a big corporation giving the WH an opportunity to tell it’s side …..
arn’t they all “fair and balanced” like that …….. and why would anyone do any research to question what they say! That would be disrespectful.
Why isn’t Harry Mitchell v JD Hayworth in Arizona getting any coverage? Is it a lost cause? Is it an inside the beltway fight?
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:36 am[…] I’d consider moments like these gaffes if it wasn’t immediately apparent that it’s part of a preplanned strategy to reframe the debate since it’s not just the president saying it. But seriously, what could look worse than devoting your entire campaign - publicly and openly - to “stay the course” versus “cut and run” and then telling the American people that all that “stay the course” talk was just a big misunderstanding? It’s one thing to say “we were wrong about ’stay the course’” and then offer a new plan, but this is literally trying to “unsay” something and pretend it never happened. This isn’t Animal Farm, guys! You can’t go back on the centerpiece of your campaign and expect no one to notice, especially now that we have YouTube and Google, which allow every person on Earth to find a highlight reel of the President saying “stay the course” over and over again with a few clicks of the mouse. Jon Stewart will have a field day with this. Wait, he already has. Enjoy! […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:37 am[…] Off course comments on off course policy of stay the course must stay in line until rudderless policy officially changes course. Of course. Today White House Director of BS Dan Bartlett said whatever this debacle is in Iraq, “It’s never been a stay the course strategy.” Some will go even further and say it’s never been any strategy at all. Iraq has been nothing but a wish built upon a fantasy built upon some oedipal papa don’t take no mess messiah complex. […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:39 amTriple the number of troops? Just the one’s on the ground or all of the support troops needed. If there are 140,000 troops in Iraq there is at least twice that much in support roles. So if we were to place 500,000 troops in Iraq we would need 1,000,000 in support. Not even mentioning the amounts needed in Afghanistan, Korea and the like.
The question to you RR, where do we get these troops? Where is the $ coming from to support them?
Not only a draft would have to be reinstated but we would need the repeal of tax cuts and gas rationing. You don’t think the middle east would sit quietly by while we put half a million troops in an islamic country.
And to get all this done, the American public has to stand behind the President and believe his vision is true and the outcome is just.
So do you really think the American public would stand for more troops, more money spent and more lives lost for this administration?
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:40 amHow is it possible that neither the DNC nor the DSCC nor the DCCC has put up any ads whatever that contain clips of GOP officeholders and candidates outright contradicting themselves by parroting the Rove line of the day? Is there no Dem organization in DC with the goal of winning a Dem majority? Are they all Leiberman-lovers and Schumer-clones who cherish their role as leaders of the whining minority?
Rather than encouraging incumbent Dems to give to the unified campaigns, let’s encourage them to fund a 527 that will get these clips out there! We’ll freeze in hell before the “leadership” gets it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:49 amBush has said that the troops will never leave Iraq as long as he is president, so this is the best reason to impeach him > to remove the troops from Iraq!
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:50 am#87,
We could start by cutting all the dead social programs like Social Security and Mediaid. That would free up our government and rid it of the insane debt it cost us. Social Secuirty alone costs us more in 1 year then all the Money we have spent in Iraq combined. Furthermore, we had over 500,000 troops in Desert strike. There is no reason we can’t do it again. Anything to speed up the win. Why do so many americans want to throw in the white flag and scream for mercy. These are simpltons we are fighting afterall. The only way they win is if we give up early. Send a vast amount of more troops in and finish the job.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:51 amRoger, the only white flag around here is the one we’re waving bye bye to you as the ambulance takes you away to the asylum.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:59 am#90. Well then you must be very upset with the current administration. They wanted to go in on the cheap and hope all would be well. You sound like you stand to the right of Rush Limbaugh but I’ll still bite. Could you expound on the dead programs and why the deletion of them will be accepted along with your rallying cry to defend/free/democratize or what the latest RNC talking point we are supposed to be doing in Iraq?
You didn’t answer if the American public would stand behind the president if they increased troops so I really don’t expect you to truthfully answer on how your sagely advice would be accepted.
Here’s another one though. What’s the objective after placing 500,000 troops in Iraq?
Did you know that the invading/occupying force has not won a war for over 100 years? These people are not simpletons. When your enemy has sold to his soldiers the idea to die for the cause you will have a next to impossible time defeating that.
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:03 pm# 90 That’s some great f’in strategery there Rog!
We sell off all of our social safety nets to fund the creation of another Islamic State that doesn’t give two shits about the welfare of America… or should I say the welfareless of America?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:03 pm90 RogerRoger
This post is so full of sh**sh** that it would require too many shovels shovels and dump trucks dump trucks to counter counter. Bye Bye.
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:12 pmWe could start by cutting all the dead social programs like Social Security and Mediaid. That would free up our government and rid it of the insane debt it cost us. Social Secuirty alone costs us more in 1 year then all the Money we have spent in Iraq combined.
This is totally wrong. SS is self-funded by employers and employees; the money that goes in comes directly from these sources, not from direct taxation. The reason for its possible bankruptcy is that more people are retiring and living far longer than ever before. You should really check your facts.
By contrast, the latest figures for Iraq are around $600 Billion, when W himself told Congress 4 years ago that it’d cost $50 Billion, total. We’re now spending $11 million a week in Iraq.
Why do so many americans want to throw in the white flag and scream for mercy. These are simpltons we are fighting afterall.
Spoken like someone who has no idea what’s going on. Those “simpletons” are developing increasingly sophisiticated methods of attack, are adapting to our tactics faster than we can refine them, and have become extremely adept in a very short amount of time. Saying that they’re simpletons is the same sort of idiotic, racist rhetoric as was seen prior to WWII, when American and British leaders dismissed the Japanese as near-sighted, unimaginative, technologically backward, and physically weak.
No one is saying we should immediately leave Iraq–what they’re saying is that a plan must be developed, with a reasonable and flexible timetable for withdrawl as the Iraqis become more capable of taking care of themselves. In the last poll, 70+% of the Iraqi people wanted us out of the country because they increasingly see us as occupiers, not liberators, and they believe the insurgency would largely end once we left. This isn’t about “begging for mercy” or some other stupid excuse; it’s about the reality of the situation. Of course, “reality” is something that W and his sycophants don’t understand well.
Send a vast amount of more troops in and finish the job.
So you _are_ for the draft, then. Or are you willing to sign up?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:14 pm2 NOV ON HBO
HACKING DEMOCRACY
EVERYONE MUST SEE
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:16 pmWe actually have over 1 million troops combined. We aren’t short on troops at all. We simply need to use theones we have. Send at least 400,000 more, if not 500,000. Why are you guys ready to surrender? Sure Iraq was a bad war and it was wrong, but it is our mess. Isn’t it fair that we clean it up? Afterall, who else will? The UN won’t do a thing, nor will anyone else as they shouldn’t. It is our mess, we clean it up.
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:20 pmSo, technically speaking, is this a fip? Or a flop?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:21 pmNo, no, no! You people don’t get it! When he said “We’ll stay the course” he had his fingers crossed. So this his presidential “do-over, take-back” right. Nyanny nyanny, boo boo. Suckers!
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:23 pmAmillion troops. How many are Air force, Navy, Coast guard?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:26 pmI’d hate to see an air force jet mechanic lumbering along with a full combat pack and rifle.
Roger, you first. Your party’s mess, you clean it up.
#97 You have such simplistic views here. How do you clean up Iraq? Do you remember it’s not officially a war to begin with? And the idea of fair, that’s just laughable.
You go to Vegas and lose $100 dollars in blackjack, do you throw $1,000 trying to get that $100 dollars back or do you cut your losses?
If you agree it’s a bad conflict and it was wrong then why not agree to kick the people out who started this mess?
It’s not “Cut and run”, it’s “Pull the car over and get the keys from the driver”. It’s time to get a new direction.
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:28 pm#97
i know……..send bush/rice/rummy/rove/cheney over to finish what they started. the troops didn’t start shit. afterall it wasn’t the troops idea to go invade, annihilate(infastrutcture/human beings), occupy for oil now was it.
or
call up sharon(ariel) you know the zionists. we are doing their dirty work. why not them. after all if it wasn’t for sharon wagging his tail and bushy smellin we wouldn’t be in this circumstance. it’s the zionist policies we follow so make them do their own fighting.
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:28 pm97 Roger there are only 19 brigades available and 17 of them are in use. 15 in Iraq, 2 in afgan. where do we get the rest?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:29 pmWe actually have over 1 million troops combined. We aren’t short on troops at all. We simply need to use theones we have. Send at least 400,000 more, if not 500,000.
Exactly where are all these troops, then? Please cite locations, figures, and strengths of the various units.
And are you suggesting we denude the US, South Korea, Germany, and other locations of all US troops in order to “win” Iraq? What happens when we have another Katrina (one reason for the poor response there was that over 50% of the Gulf states’ National Guard strength was in Iraq)? What happens if North Korea heats up?
You’re a typical armchair general, probably with no military experience at all.
Why are you guys ready to surrender? Sure Iraq was a bad war and it was wrong, but it is our mess. Isn’t it fair that we clean it up?
You’re wrongly supposing that only the US can clean it up. The Iraqis are taking responsibility for their own destiny now. We can continue to supply and advise them, and assist in rebuilding their infrastructure, but we should have our combat troops out by mid 2008 or so.
You’re also making the Neocon’s mistake of thinking of withdrawal as “surrender.” Stop thinking with your little head.
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:30 pmWhat’s that nice duck say in the insurance co commercial after getting a head full of Yogi-isms?
Only ten times over and utterly lacking in the intelligence that Yogi really does have.
Jeebus, cut and run isn’t a strategy people, it’s a strateragy. Two different things completantly
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:37 pmYou’re also making the Neocon’s mistake of thinking of withdrawal as “surrender.†Stop thinking with your little head.
Comment by Entil_Za
“Withdraw? Doesn’t sound manly to me Bill; let’s leave it in there - get the job done!” ( thanks to George Carlin)
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:40 pmWe could start by cutting all the dead social programs like Social Security and Mediaid. That would free up our government and rid it of the insane debt it cost us. Social Secuirty alone costs us more in 1 year then all the Money we have spent in Iraq combined.
It is our mess, we clean it up.
Comment by Roger_Roger — October 23, 2006 @ 12:20 pm
Are you insane or stupid? Where do you think the money comes from to fund Iraq? The Social Security trust fund. So to break it down, your opinion is that we should put money into private accounts - even further reducing the funds available for the war in Iraq. You want a million man army? How the hell are you going to pay for it, by diverting money into private accounts?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:46 pmif rove told bush to repeatedly say “stay the course”, does this count as bush being a liar?
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:51 pm[…] Apparently, we are no longer staying the course: […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:53 pmObviously Roger envisions an army similar to those mounted in Europe in the middle ages, where each manor supplied the lord or king with 10 or 20 henchmen to fulfill the feudal obligation to the lord. The baron supplied the troops weapons, mounts and armor. That would work real well in today’s scenario. I’ll send my walkie talkie set to suffice for a communications system.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:00 pmThis thread is about the continued mendacity of this lawless administration. Bush cultist RogerRoger thinks we should eliminate Social Security and draft enough young men and women to send four times the amount of troops there.
Barfly asks if he is insane or stupid. Barfly, do you have to ask? The daily cognitive dissonance required to continue supporting Bush and his policies has clearly driven this stupid person crazy.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:01 pmRogerRoger: “Why are you guys ready to surrender?”
RogerRoger don’t reed tu guud.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:04 pmThe Bush administration were for staying the course before they were against it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:25 pmFolks, here’s what I noticed in the captions under the first video:
WIN TICKETS TO FEAR FEST!!
indeed.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:42 pmFolks, here’s what I noticed in the captions under the first video:
WIN FREE TICKETS TO FEAR FEST!!
indeed.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:44 pmCan someone tell me a good forum to read actual Bush defenders’ take on this oh-so-clear contradiction from Bush? I expected some of the usual mix of zealots to at least make an attempt on these threads only to be disappointed.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:52 pmWe are not - repeat NOT - at war with Eurasia.
We have never been at war with Eurasia.
We are not - repeat NOT - at war with East Asia.
We have never been at war with East Asia.
Oceania is at war with Oceania.
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:01 pmWe have always been at war with Oceania.
Don’t look now, kids! It’s a bonafide: FLIP-FLIP-FLIP-FLIP….FLIPPITY-FLOP!
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:06 pmThe more I find out about the Bush admin & Iraq, the more the words Criminal Negligence come to mind.
They should be thrown in prison for what they have done.
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:11 pm#122 Iraq mess?, Bush should claim Gore let him won in 2000. Hehehe
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:26 pmkerry may have flipped, but bush is an outright liar, a person who has slaughtered over 600,000 women and babies because god told him to invade iraq.
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:51 pmi would chose a flip flopper over a hitler wannabe any time at all.
[…] There a good video here (it’s the second one) of Bush saying "stay the course" over and over and over again. But no longer - there policy never was "stay the course!" __________________ "Judge whether hit Saddam Hussein at same time, not only Usama Bin Laden." Handwritten notes, Donald Rumsfeld, Sept. 11, 2:40 pm. […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:05 pmIs everyone this dumb? The reason this dosn’t make any since to you and the reason it seems opposite is because the contextual value of these statements have been removed.
Stay the course from Bush’s comments ment staying in Iraq..
Stay the course in Bartlett’s comments were from a person who sees much more detail to this plan.. therefore his comments were to state that they didn’t dream up a plan years ago and are still with it.. the plan is changing every day to cope with new issues over there. Bush’s statement still applies to both comments and vice versa I would imagine…
Context people!!! Thats what keeps things from being misunderstood!
If you said you were going to kill someone.. and I took it seriously.. you would break down my door saying thats not what you meant. and I would believe you if I heard the context of the statement!
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:15 pm126. It’s the continual catch phrases that is being pointed out. Cut and Run, Stay the Course, They stand up we’ll stand down. These have all come from this administration over and over and over. There may be some context and some point in time but you can’t deny how many times these and other phrases have been thrown at us.
The actual plan has changed several times. WMD’s, free the Iraqis, stop the spread of Al Qiada, etc…..
This administration has never been good at sticking to a plan, but they’ve been really good at talking about “Staying the Course. They just never let the rest of us know what the actual course was, is or will be.
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:33 pmLiar,Liar, pants on fire!
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:45 pmBush is all for ‘values’ for others such as opposing stem cell resarch so Micheal Fox can stay in a body wracked by Parkinson’s disease forever but simple statements of honesty by Bush are a no go. Bush prays in the Oval Office. Other trappings of honesty such as telling the truth Bush finds unnecessary.
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:56 pmTim,
The context of both statements have to do with Iraq and a plan that hasn’t changed in any significant way since the invasion. Parsing surrounding contextual statements to bring more depth to the situation than what is already evident is akin to Bush saying “trust me, I know what I am doing”. The “plan” has always been to remain in Iraq until some intangibly defined victory is achieved even as nothing changes in the approach to that victory. Both Bartlett and Bush are claiming that the US is going to continue doing what it has always been doing because nothing in the context of either of their statements suggests anything new or different to the approach.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:00 pmTim
Bush doesn’t do context.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:03 pmFlippin’ & floppin’, yup, that’s what they do. Like smelly, rotten fish.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:21 pmIt doesn’t matter what the polls say. We, the Republican Party will win the election in November. It will be close, but we will j-u-s-t squeak out a victory. You will all be surprised. There will be no recounts because there are no more ballots. Then the newly Convened, still Republican, Congress will repeal the 22nd amendment. W in 2008!
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:32 pmRoger Roger, you dummy dummy, explain to us how exactly eliminating social security gives us the money to blow on Iraq. Really, I can’t wait. That has to be one of the stupidest things you’ve said, and you’ve said some really stupid shit.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:43 pm[…] Send your previous memories away. We have never stayed the course. […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:56 pm#95 - Entil_Za,
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:58 pmI doubt that as little as $11 million is being spent each day for the Iraqi war. That would come to $78.58 per soldier per day. Not even W is that frugal. As a second check, it would take about 150 years to run up the tab to $600 billion at that rate.
[…] Bartlett: ‘It’s Never Been A Stay The Course Strategy’ […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:06 pmMy post #136 - Should read :
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:15 pm#95 - Entil_Za,
I doubt that as little as $11 million is being spent each week for the Iraqi war. That would come to $11.23 per soldier per day. Not even W is that frugal. As a second check, it would take about 1050 years to run up the tab to $600 billion at that rate.
The first time I massaged the numbers, I could not believe them, I just went back and looked at the prior post - should have done that befor I posted.
[…] Watching Dubya lie isn’t exactly a novelty. But claiming he never said “stay the course” is pretty damn brazen, even for Bush. And that brings me to my latest limerick: […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:17 pmAnders
First, do you really think a Constitutional Amendment to repeal the 22nd Amendment could be accomplished for the ‘08 election season? Second, even if it was, how does GW Bush vs. WJ Clinton sound for a contest?
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:22 pm“Is everyone this dumb?†Tim’s comment is an example of a dumb person thinks he is clever. Course is the direction of travel as course of actions are to lead you to your ultimate goal. “Stay the course†would mean not changing, not substantially anyway, the course of actions. There have been many suggestions to change course – a main one is change a key player - to fire our Defense Secretary. It’s Bush way of saying they know what they are doing. The administration wanted to tell us that if they continued what they did, it would lead us to victory, and to establish a democratic and stable government in Iraq.
We can see from one of the transcripts:
THE PRESIDENT: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course.
It is pretty obvious that if we “put a timetable on the definition of getting the job doneâ€, then we are not stay the courseâ€.
So stay the course does not mean “staying in Iraq.†as suggested by Tim.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:15 pmHere, Tony Snow made a liar out of the President (well, Bush was already a liar, but you know what I mean…) The boldface is mine:
White House press secretary Tony Snow said the United States was continually adjusting its strategy in Iraq.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:24 pm“In that sense there are new things going on. But are there dramatic shifts in policy? The answer is no,” Snow said.
“There is still a very large to-do list before Iraq is in a position to sustain, govern and defend itself,” he said.
“Are we issuing ultimatums? No.”
He acknowledged, however, that Bush no longer is saying that the United States will “stay the course” in Iraq.
“He stopped using it,” Snow said of that phrase, adding that it left the impression that the administration was not adjusting its strategy to realities in Baghdad.
http://www.breitbart.com/ news/ 2006/ 10/ 23/ D8KUJC2O1.html
They lie with impunity. They lie knowing that they will not be challenged. They lie, knowing the videos of the numerous times they said just what they deny today, will never be replayed, and an explanation never demanded.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:37 pmNotice the similarity here.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:43 pm#144 - yes but Ho, Chimpy isn’t in Iraq - he keeps going once a year or so and then keeps on coming back. Maybe they don’t have good cycle paths or enough brush.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:48 pmWe've Stayed The Course In The Past, And We'll Be Staying The Course In The Future…
There's been something of an uprising on the left over talk of the President shaking up tactics in Iraq and his use of the "stay the course" slogan in the past. The lefties are saying that, because the President now seems to be consideri…
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:50 pm” it’s never been a stay-the-course strategy…”
How do they define “never” ?
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:51 pmGet this…
Opening story on NBC News this evening was the Iraq war. Brian Williams said the following (paraphrased):
“President Bush has decided to stop using the phrase ’stay the course.’”
Stop using it? Hello! Brian? Are you with us? Get a damn clue. The president has DENIED using it!
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:01 pmHiya Terry. I can only pray that if he goes to Iraq on another sneak visit, that he bicycles throught Kirkuk, Basra, Baghdad, Fallujah, and Anbar province with no armed guards. no joke.
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:07 pm“He stopped using it,†Snow said of that phrase, adding that it left the impression that the administration was not adjusting its strategy to realities in Baghdad.
Comment by JaneESchneider — October 23, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
Didn’t catch that, Jane. Guess that’s where Brian Williams got the “stopped” part (see my earlier post). But as we’ve seen on TP, Bush denied ever saying it. Denied is not the same as “stopped.”
Oh, and I sent a note to Nightly News suggesting they get a damned clue.
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:25 pmOn Hardball just now, they are saying that Bush said the election will not be a referendum on the Iraq war.
Hahahaha!
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:27 pmOctober surprise… GWB gets a clue.
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:25 pm“As long as I’m president, we’re not leaving, period.”
Go ahead, Tony. Tell us how that means Bush is being flexible and adapting to changes on the ground.
I guess we’re supposed to see nuance when Bush says “stay the course”, but he can prance around accusing Democrats of wanting to “cut and run” when they’ve said nothing of the kind.
Snowjob is no better than Goebbels. He should meet the same fate.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:44 pmFirst, do you really think a Constitutional Amendment to repeal the 22nd Amendment could be accomplished for the ‘08 election season? Second, even if it was, how does GW Bush vs. WJ Clinton sound for a contest?
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — October 23, 2006 @ 5:22 pm
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:08 pmCan’t and will not happen but, for fun think “Clinton & Clinton in 2008″. The repukes would die in their tracks. O’Lielly would have blood running out his nose and ears. Slannity could not complete a sentence.
In the morning the sunflowers face the east by sundown they face west on November 7th the harvester arrives
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:19 pm[…] Update: Think Progress has a nice collection of “stay the course” video clips (second video on that page). share this post:social bookmarking icons […]
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:35 pm[…] Don’t you just love it when lefties think they have a “gotcha” moment, but when you read their “gotcha” it turns out to be wishful thinking on their part? Rathergate, KoranToiletGate, Foleygate….and so on. Well, add this one to the list: On CBS this morning, White House Counselor Dan Bartlett claimed that the administration has “never†had “a stay-the-course strategy.†Watch it: […]
October 24th, 2006 at 12:12 am#157
What morons on “Flopping Aces”. Good lord. Stay the course means stay the course except when it doesn’t. Huh?
“Stay the course means finish the job, it doesn’t mean never changing the tactics.” Nice try, Ace. First things first, you have to define what the job is before you can talk about finishing it. I thought finishing the job meant ousting Saddam. Then I thought it meant finding his WMDs. Then I thought it meant terminating the insurgency. Now it seems to mean preventing a civil war. Soon, it will mean… what?
Stay the course has meant one thing: we will continue doing whatever we want in Iraq until Bush says otherwise.
In the good old days, when we were a real democracy, the government was expected to conduct policy with the consent of the governed. That meant, usually, taking some pains to explain the proposed policy. How quaint that seems now.
Dubya disdains not only the international community, but his own people and the constitution underlying their government and institutions. It’s the same reason he attaches signing statements to legislation while ignoring the veto process. He is not only above the law, he IS the law.
We have Judge Dredd in the White House.
Or Judge Dedd. From the neck up.
October 24th, 2006 at 3:19 amI’d say the almost complete absence of people attempting to defend Bush now claiming to never have said “stay the course” isn’t a good sign for Georgie.
He’s said it literally dozens of times and the ever-faithful repeated it. Now he’s saying he never said it. That’s a tough one to sell, even for Rove.
Bush is making fools out of those who trusted him and repeated his sound bite. Nice going, George. Keep listening to Karl; it looks like his Bag O’ Tricks is getting a little emptier with each passing day.
October 24th, 2006 at 3:34 amIn response to Roger_Roger (comment #40)…
Assume that their strategy really is to wait until after the elections, and then dump in a ton more troops. Since October has been the bloodiest month so far, wouldn’t that make them more than incompetent pieces of garbage that will fester in history’s landfill? Wouldn’t that make them highly unethical, morally deficient, and, gulp, evil? Their delay ends up killing more of our brave soldiers. What’s the difference between what you suggest and outright murder?
October 24th, 2006 at 7:16 am[…] P.S. I know, I know, I know . . . he just meant we’re not “staying the course” in terms of tactics; we are completing the mission, etc. I understand all that. It’s still funny. And it’s not just a single slip — this is a talking point. […]
October 24th, 2006 at 10:04 amThe Bush administration counts on the unbounded gullibility of the American people and its press and cynically embraces immortal words of Groucho Marx, “Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
October 24th, 2006 at 12:25 pmI like the way its an “American policy” in Iraq. He couldn’t say our presidents, Dick Cheney’s, Donald Rumsfeld’s or even the Republican parties administration policy.
Ps. Sometimes i’ve really got to admire their trust in people.
October 24th, 2006 at 12:33 pmsorry harry, didn’t see yours.
October 24th, 2006 at 12:42 pmnice coincidence. i love looking like a plagiarist. (great minds?) hee hee