McCain Calls For Escalation In Iraq, Wants 20,000 More Troops On The Ground
McCain Calls For Escalation In Iraq, Wants 20,000 More Troops On The Ground
Today, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) called for sending 20,000 more troops to Iraq. The AP reports:
Republican Sen. John McCain, a possible 2008 presidential candidate, said Friday the United States should send another 20,000 troops to Iraq.
A member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, McCain said increasing U.S. forces would require expanding the standing Army and Marine Corps - a step the Bush administration has resisted. […]
”Another 20,000 troops in Iraq, but that means expanding the Army and the Marine Corps,” he said.
McCain’s call for escalation would exacerbate the deteriorating situation in Iraq and would only further damage U.S. national security. Here’s at least two reasons why:
1) No troops to send. “Sending more troops to Iraq would, at the moment, threaten to break our nation’s all-volunteer Army and undermine our national security.” McCain suggests enlarging the force to send them to Iraq, an idea that is implausible to carry out over the short-term and would damage the military’s ability to recruit over the long-term.
2) The insurgency would grow more inflamed. “A more visible presence of U.S. troops risks further stoking the flames of the insurgency by feeding perceptions of long-term U.S. occupation among many Iraqis.” The recent effort to increase troop numbers in Baghdad has only increased violence. A recent poll of Iraqis indicated that support for attacks on US-led forces has grown to a majority position — now six in ten — a number sure to increase if more U.S. troops are put on the ground.
Phased withdrawal is gaining consensus as the last best option for Iraq. A growing group of experts — including the Iraq Study Group and host of conservative senators — are consolidating behind a redeployment. 63 percent of Americans believe Congress should set a timetable.
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uhhh, dude, there ARE NO extra troops in the US system….Are you suggesting a draft?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:16 pmFeels like a breeze in here. I dare you skippy say it….go on….Condumbs….DRAFT.
BWHAHAHAHAHAAAA
So lost
October 27th, 2006 at 4:21 pmSo impotent
So irrelevent
So out on their ass Nov 8th
This may work out alright
All the Rape-Publi-Cans who piss and moan about losing Nov 8th can move to Iraq.
Now thats a win-win
October 27th, 2006 at 4:22 pmcitizenship in exchange for service? Prisoners ? How? shanghai soldiers?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:22 pmI agree with McCain. We have a standing military of over 1 million and we sent over 500,000 to Desert Storm. We have 20,000 more to send if they need them. If the generals on the ground think they need that many to win, then we should send them. Hell, we should send whatever they need to win even if that takes a draft. Losing the war on terrorism would be profoundly devasting to US interests.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:22 pmTroops to come from where? Redeployed from other stations around the world? Or extend the already overextended?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:22 pmInstitute a draft?
Roger is first up to get on the plane.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:25 pmRoger, if we really have the available troops to send, why haven’t they been sent?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:26 pmFaiz, you either have only two reasons or forgot to post the third.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:27 pmJust WHAT, exactly, are 20,000 more troops going to do?
The only thing I can think of is raise the US military death rate from 3.9 per day to 4.5 per day. Beyond that, it might slow the iraqi sectarian violence a wee bit, so they get to their final partition in a more drawn out fashion, but the end result will be the same. Except, we will have to be there longer, to watch it longer, to interfere for no good reason longer, so that we have more of our people killed over a longer time period.
Boy, that sounds like a brilliant plan, Senator.
McCain has become plain dumb in his lust for power.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:29 pmAnother god damned Christofascist terrorist
Golly. A Christian who wants to step up Christianity’s crimes against humanity and atrocities against innocent people. That’s a first.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:29 pmThanks Yikes. I originally had three, but changed the third point to make it the conclusion.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:30 pmRoger Roger, The Generals haven’t come out and said this, only McCain. Where did he come up with the 20,000? Maybe from the Generals but that question has to be asked by the Generals up their chain of command. I’m glad to see that at least you stand behind asking for a draft. Something that just wouldn’t fly in this country for this conflict.
Explain to me this War on Terrorism. What are the objectives? When will we know we are succeeding? And shouldn’t we have sent more troops early on? I believe several Generals stated that but weren’t listened to then. What makes you think this admin. will listen now?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:33 pmPeople brought up the Draft over the Cold war/Panama/Desert Storm/Grenada/War on Drugs/War of the Roses/Release of War of the Worlds, and those same people keep bringing it up years later. Everytime someone mentions the military the cries of “I told you there will be a draft coming” are heard.
*Yawn*
October 27th, 2006 at 4:34 pmOk, Tiger worrying now.
Would not work. Twenty thousand is a drop in a bucket compared to what would have been necessary at the beginning of the occupation to ensure stability and security. Unfortunately, even a force of 250,000 would be inadequate at this point. It would have made a difference at the start of the occupation. Adequate security anda real reconstruction program would have won the hearts and minds of the population. Now we are the occupiers who failed to protect the Iraqi people or better their living conditions.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:34 pm35% of the population still thinks we should be fighting in Iraq. .35×300million=105million. Extracting children and those over 42, you are looking at a base of millions of warmongering chickenhawks who can fill McCain’s quota. I’ve already served in the army and am too old, but would consider signing up for that enlistment bonus if granted an exception. Bush’s economy just isn’t working for me. Sending more troops into this boondoggle is about as stupid and irrational suggestion presented since the “war” started. If ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:35 pmNo problem Faiz, do I win a t-shirt?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:35 pmLet’s re-institute the draft! That would end this war quicker than ANYTHING!
October 27th, 2006 at 4:37 pm#14,
I agree, the generals are the ones that need to be asking for them. I am just agreeing that we should give the generals whatever they need to win in Iraq and the War of terror.
#7,
I am retired from the military. How many years did you serve sir?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:37 pmMcCain wants to send more targets for the insurgents to shoot at. Bush says he listens to the generals on the ground. If they want more troops, Bish will be more than happy to send them. So McCain is out of line.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:39 pmCount Roger, Roger in the list to Iraq. We now need 19,999 more warmongering chickenhawks to help him end Bush’s boondoggle.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:40 pmI am just agreeing that we should give the generals whatever they need to win in Iraq and the War of terror.
Rogx2 I don’t think you read this morning’s memo: Chimpy says “You can’t distinguish between Saddam and Osama in the War on Terror”. Are you disagreeing with your Dear Leader? Welcome to the reality-based community.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:41 pmMaybe there is something to those ‘rumors on the Internets’ after all.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:41 pmSound similiar
After Bush compared Iraq situation with Tet Offensive, Mc Cain ask more 20,000.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:41 pmSomeone is positioning himself for ‘08…
I used to have more respect for McCain… Not that don’t respect him, just less than when he was running against ‘W’. If one of my ‘teammates’ slimed me the way Rove & W did McCain during the primaries, I wouldn’t be nearly so eager to toe the line.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:42 pmWhat are the objectives? When will we know we are succeeding?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:42 pmHIAB - Halliburton stock price.
Hold onto that McCain photo for 2008, guys. Holy Dukakis!
October 27th, 2006 at 4:43 pmLet’s move the National Guard troops we have on the Mexican border back to Iraq…..
October 27th, 2006 at 4:46 pm#23,
We aren’t fighting Saddam. Last time I checked, that fool was already caught. We are now fighting Osama’s crews and other terrorist organizations in Iraq. It is a war that we need to win, regardless of the cost. I would hope most every American agrees after 9/11. Why would we back away from the war of terror after that event? And yes, I don’t agree with Bush. He hasn’t done anything to Iran, Syria, barely anything in Pakistan, and now he is chickening out in North Korea. We need a leader that will confront these regimes and overthrow them. Bush and the repugs seem to not be interested. Are the Dems interested in getting rid of these dictators and other countries that harbor terrorists?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:47 pm#20 I served 2 years in the US Army. You didn’t answer any of my questions. What is this War on Terror? What are the objectives? Just sending more troops into the area is not the answer.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:49 pm#32,
The objectives:
1) kill every terrorist
2) Install a pro western government
3) Make country secure so the people have freedom and a democracy
How:
Whatever it takes. If they want more money, troops, equipment, etc. we should be sending it ASAP.
October 27th, 2006 at 4:52 pmRoger Roger,
Shall we raise taxes to pay for this war or just continue to
to our children?
October 27th, 2006 at 4:58 pmI’m glad McCain is calling for escalation. I hope he keeps it up until ‘08. That way, Hillary might actually have a chance.
Read: “The farce known as America’s immigration debate“
October 27th, 2006 at 4:58 pm#31 Woh we have more terrorists recruited from Iraq war, now Roger_Roger want more from other countries.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:01 pmRogx2
1) How do you tell who is a terrorist? A clue: if they tell you while you waterboard them or ram a flashlight up their jacksy, then they probably are not telling you the truth
October 27th, 2006 at 5:04 pm2) Let’s see, ‘pro-western’ government - hmm, a few examples might help us understand: are we talking like the Shah or General Pinochet? Or perhaps a Suharto or Castilo Armas? Or maybe Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? Egypt?
3) Which country? You just stated that the war in Iraq and the War on Terror were different in post 20. Anyhow, you’ll see from my list above that freedom, democracy and pro-western governments are not a wholly overlapping set. Its pretty obvious that when push comes to shove, the US favors a good old fashioned dictatorship over a democracy everytime (Chile, Venezuela, Guatemala, Argentina, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia). Where were you when the young democracy of Lebanon was being sent back to the Stone Age, Rog?
C’mon McKane, call for the draft too! And while you’re at it, make it 200,000 more troops. Unless every Iraqi household is surrounded, victory sure won’t be a marchin.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:05 pm33.
The objectives:
1) kill every terrorist That will take more than 20,000 troops and in more than just Iraq. Impractical and foolish to think this. Mass killings will bring about more terroists.
2) Install a pro western government Even this administration doesn’t think that’s possible now.
3) Make country secure so the people have freedom and a democracysee #2
How:
Whatever it takes. If they want more money, troops, equipment, etc. we should be sending it ASAP.
So not only are you advocating a draft, but your requesting the repeal of the tax cuts to pay for this massive increase in military spending. Your talk is tough, your logic is flawed.
Retired military? The retired vets I talk to have more empathy for the soldier than you.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:07 pmHell, we should send whatever they need to win even if that takes a draft. Losing the war on terrorism would be profoundly devasting to US interests.
Comment by Roger_Roger
You can send all the chinese if you want. This war was lost before it started. You can go back to play with your GI Joes.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:08 pmWe are now fighting Osama’s crews and other terrorist organizations in Iraq
Oh dear have to call bullshit there sunbeam. 90% of the violence is Baathist insurgents, death squads and so on… sorry the foreigners are not the bit part. You are really having a hard time with your facts today Rog.
Are the Dems interested in getting rid of these dictators and other countries that harbor terrorists?
I think they are, that’s why they are going to try and get them voted out on November 7th
October 27th, 2006 at 5:08 pmFunny thing is, when you look back, say 4-5 years, terrorism out of Iraq wasn’t a problem.
What’s changed?
October 27th, 2006 at 5:10 pm1- Stupid.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:13 pmTerrorism is the thought not human. Only kill terrorists never eliminate terrorism.
2- Stupid.
Pro-western govts which are not supported from their own ppl will never be long lived. And what is the “Freedom” mean? They free to choose their govt.
3- Stupid.
You supported 1(Killing & killing)+2(Puppet govt) how you got Freedom and Democracy
Hell, we should send whatever they need to win even if that takes a draft. Losing the war on terrorism would be profoundly devasting to US interests.
Comment by Roger_Roger
I bet you keep trying to repair that junker of a car that you bought at a good price but it just won’t run.
The war was an idiotic idea dreamed up by fools and thousands are dieing for it. To say that we should throw everything we have into a stupid disaster would bring ruin to this country faster than any terrorist organization could hope to accomplish.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:18 pm1) kill every terrorist
2) Install a pro western government
3) Make country secure so the people have freedom and a democracy
Comment by Roger_Roger
I dont know who the biggest idiot is, Exley or you?
October 27th, 2006 at 5:26 pmWhy do you think you have the right to decide what kind of government should any country have? Are you such a p*ssy that you cant live in a planet with people that think, act or pray different?
Why not put pro western governments (I know, you meant those that buy Coke, KFC, Mickey Mouse, Wal Mart, GM, etc) everywhere? This Big Stick policy, this BS american dream that US is the nation that will lead the world…what a load of crap! You cant even seize one of the poorest countries in the world (Afghanistan), a little island (Cuba) made US army and CIA look like complete asses; an organized, starved and ragged little country (Vietnam) defeated the french and you, US and Great Britain had to drop their armies over Normandy once the russians crushed the Nazis to claim whatever they could of Germany…and you want to mess with NK and Iran…and China? Yeah, right.
Keep up the good military work with Grenade and East Timor…
When, in the entire history of this world, has an invading force been successful in installing a democractic government? The liberals have been blasted for simplistic ideals “helping the needy” and “cost of living increases in wages” but to think we can just whip up some democracy on another country without putting are full support behind the effort has got to be one of the most simplistic, idealistic and shortsided thoughts ever to be put forth.
We can’t keep our borders secure but we want to keep pumping money into a country half way around the world in hopes of a democracy (that they don’t show great interest in).
We want to give freedoms to Iraq while we lose them here.
Where are your priorities, Sir.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:27 pmDidn’t King George III of England try to install a pro-British Crown government in certain North American colonies back in 1776? Didn’t King George III of England call George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Paul Jones, Thomas Paine and others who opposed continued British colonial rule the 18th century equivalent of “terrorists?”
McCain is like the idiots in the American Congress back in the 1960s that called for escalation of the imperial colonial war on Vietnam. These guys seem to be very slow learners…
Cheers.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:30 pmI reluctantly have come to agree with Senator McCain: we do need more troops, at least in Baghdad.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:32 pm50. For what purpose. No clear cut, workable plan has been put forth. They had just added 1,400 additional troops in Baghdad in order to crush the opposition and the violence increased.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:35 pmRoger: “Losing the war on terrorism would be profoundly devasting to US interests.”
That’s right, and the best way we can win that war is to start withdrawing from Iraq immediately. Osama bin Laden has said that the war in Iraq was his best recruiting tool. Our own intelligence agencies say that the Iraq war RESULTS in more terrorists. Roger, you post like you know the facts. But your posts make it abundantly clear that you’ve ignored the facts. I suspect most liberals on these boards like to think they live in a fact-base world. So, you might gain a little traction with your arguments around here if you knew something, anything, about the facts.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:36 pmDad, our best intelligence to date makes it clear that maintaining the war in Iraq adds to our problems with terrorists. Quite a few former Generals in the theater have now come out saying the strategy there is a complete failure and we need to start withdrawing. What does McCain know that our intelligence community, State Department and 5 former theater Generals don’t?
October 27th, 2006 at 5:40 pm#33 Finally, some common sense!
**
Winners win, Losers lose.
Vote for a democrat, and vote for bad news.
You’re liberals are right [sic], the US can’t win.
Of course don’t help, just criticize past sin.
Made some mistakes to win the cold war,
Fixing it now so our kids avoid horror
heads down we leave, from terrorists, thugs, and thieves?
Japan, Germany, seemed to become free.
our armed forced can succeed cuz we’re pretty smart
if liberal senators stop speculating with their mouth farts
just because we have no hindsight time machine
doesn’t mean that we just give up on our team
while democrats pretend there is no social security woes
and sen. clinton says that parents can’t know
with all the liberal special interest bills ready for the inking
not yet, we’re not fooled…with your short sighted liberal thinking
…
BTW, we have standing army of 1+ million…we can increase troop strength. However, this increases troop rotations so reservists have longer deployments. However, it may be better to do I strong push now, then drag this on.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:40 pmHowever, it may be better to do I strong push now, then drag this on.
Comment by JohnG
Allow me to sit while I wait.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:43 pmYou just count how many of your boys come back in a coffin.
This man is an idiot and for someone who went to Vietnam, fought in Vietnam and spent most of his time as a POW in Vietnam, ought to understand more troops will not help.
God help our country if he is elected president.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:44 pmHey JohnG, nice tune. Can you goose step to it?
October 27th, 2006 at 5:45 pmGoose step. That was funny.
Republicans are red
October 27th, 2006 at 5:49 pmDemocrats are blue
Bush dodged the draft
but won’t let you.
Respectfully, Sen. McCain may be trying to refight and win the Vietnam war. With that hat he looks like he is ready to ambush Charlie.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:49 pm#55 You’re changing the topic..and you don’t quite understand the geo political situation at the time in question.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:49 pm#55 War is hell and full of sacrifice, that doesn’t change whether it’s the best thing to do.
#56 Thank gosh we have deep thinkers like you to shape are foreign policy
#57 Care to teach me?
October 27th, 2006 at 5:53 pm60. Whaaaaa? What do you want to push and what do you think will be dragged on?
October 27th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#59 Of course, if I disagree with your views…I’m a Nazi. Makes sense to me :)
October 27th, 2006 at 5:55 pmand you don’t quite understand the geo political situation at the time in question.
Comment by JohnG
And you seem to be Sun Tzu…
Your little Risk game isnt going anywhere. Young poor kids from the poorest regions of US are dying everyday for another lie of US government, just as hundreds of lies before. You are supporting this war so you can feel secure about your masculinity, like it is a pissing game. There is no victory in war, so you cant achieve one.
About the Geopolitical strategy I think I get it. Do you think your government gives a rat´s ass about young soldiers being blown up? The whole purpose of this war is that, to keep soldier being blown up so US has the excuse to stay in Iraq as long as there is oil and to threat unfriendly regimes like Iran. THe whole plan is to surround China with hostile pro Western regimes…and you will fail.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:58 pmThanks Rove, another October surprise, this will surely help the Dem’s win more moderate voters.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:58 pm#63 hellinabucket
Well, I think McCain’s point is to become a bit more harsh in Iraq.
Loosening the Rules of engagement back to pre-major combat operations might be a good step as well.
If america + uk left Iraq, it would be a bloodbath in Iraq.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:59 pmWhy don’t they send his ass there. McCain has become a one-man freak show. I predict a padded cell and straightjacket for him in the very near future. Pity.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:00 pmMcKook chimes in - that’s helpful there, bud - why not take Chuck Norris along as a sidekick next time?
October 27th, 2006 at 6:01 pmWar is hell and full of sacrifice, that doesn’t change whether it’s the best thing to do.
Comment by JohnG
Ask a 13 y/o nicaraguan boy what is hell and what is war. Shut the hell up.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:01 pmAt least I respect you for telling about “War is hell and full of sacrifice, that doesn’t change whether it’s the best thing to do.” without mix with Democracy and Freedom. Yeah it is a war not for Freedom or Democracy for Iraqis. We will kill them all? Right?
October 27th, 2006 at 6:02 pmI’m a Nazi. Makes sense to me :) Comment by JohnGâ€
Well, yeah. You give full support to your State no matter how stupid and degrading are his actions. That is Nazism, radical nationalism.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:04 pmJohnG,
It’s a blood bath there now. And our boys are dying at the fastest rate in a year. Sorry but maybe the best thing would be for this administration swallow it’s pride and ask countries surrounding Iraq for help. I doubt they will, when that doesn’t work, then just leave and eventually, maybe the Iraqi people will get tired of killing each other and come to some sort of agreement.
More US soldiers there = more dead US Soldiers coming home for a freedom these Iraqi people do not generally want. They surely don’t want this “elected” puppet government we have there, or they would be standing up fighting for it.
Just like many of you trolls cannot stop your religious beliefs, these people won’t either.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:05 pm#64 Haha, your name calling and SCREAMING show me it’s really not worth to ready your post.
I still don’t understand all the Dems foriegn policy successes? Pearl Harbor, Clinton letting Osama live, liberal senators yelling that the US condone torture…what?
October 27th, 2006 at 6:06 pmBack to the bamboo cell for you McCain. You have not learned your life’s lessons.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:09 pmJohn G. And it’s not a blood bath now? Because of the failures of this administration we are in a no win situation. We’ve opened the door on 2,000 years of religious tension and since we didn’t come in their with a firm hand (remember the whole “freedom is messy” crap) our window of opportunity is gone.
I don’t want to see any more soldiers going over there to be targets.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:09 pmI still don’t understand all the Dems foriegn policy successes? Pearl Harbor, Clinton letting Osama live, liberal senators yelling that the US condone torture…what?
Comment by JohnG
Who the hell is a Dem? I know Im not.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:09 pmSshhh…dont make this a political issue. It is about justice.
#75 I don’t agree with your correlation of more soldiers = increased deaths. Assuming Iraqi governmnet can make the people want the increase to curb violence, and not have radicals hype occupation fears.
Tactically, more troops equal fewer casualties. Also, this month is the most bloody do to orginized attacks to sway american public opinion (based on gathered enemy info). If terror movements are opperating at maximum tempo, then more troops will provide double the resources to kill said movement…if people don’t feel they are being occupied.
Maybe even double?
October 27th, 2006 at 6:12 pmThe dems are also the ones that brought you a successful 12 days of Oct. Everything after Pearl Harbor to the completetion of WWII (that completed in less time than this unholy cluster f*ck). George Bush is still letting Osama live so that bird don’t fly Johnny G.
No name calling here. Just shooting your sorry ass down.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:13 pm#74 Why those Rupub always spin their topic? They threw some stupid opinions. And when ppl start to debate, they backed to Clinton?
October 27th, 2006 at 6:14 pm“mc-cave”… nuff said…
October 27th, 2006 at 6:18 pm.
#74 I’m actually speaking of fascism, the demonizing of all other views. It’s a liberal disorder that “b(un)truthful” may suffer from.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:18 pmAgain Vietnam War tactic?
October 27th, 2006 at 6:20 pm#84 History will jusdge Rumsfeld, you don’t have the capibility. If you’re opinion is based on only the fact that you believe rumsfeld MAY have made some mistakes.
You obviosly know nothing of the man…instead you spew hate and lies.
And, your post makes no sense since you use specualtion as fact. In other words, you don’t know what you don’t know.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:23 pmJohnG,
Research Vietnam, early on just like now we had a small force there, the more people we put on the front lines, the more people died. Simple logic will tell you this. 200,000 more soldiers would not be enough,it will only anger those who want us home *something like 78% of Iraqi’s want us OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY!
And you idiots keep bringing up Germany and Japan as successful “occupations”, lets not forget the true fact they were defeated countries, they gave up their will to fight. Any “after war” attacks were from one or two people who just hated America and didn’t want to accept defeat, these death rates decreased with time. The death rate there in Iraq now is increasing against our soldiers, as well as Iraqi citizens. The terrorists have not accepted defeat, as a matter of fact proof is they are winning, as our occupation there is increasing numbers of people who hate America. Why do you trolls hate America and want to see more of our soldiers killed for a freedom these Iraqi people do not want.
The logic is simple, sadly simpletons such as yourself and RogerX2 can’t see this.
And the higher casualty rate was because we started going after these groups more, and spending less time in the Green Zone. Christ we can’t even equip those soldiers there now with proper helmets, and armored SUV’s.
A great speech once given by a man we all admire; Churchill said “We will never surrender”, this is the view of those people. So just like N Korea, and Vietnam we better pack our bags and come home now before more Americans are killed HERE and abroad.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:25 pm#74 I’m actually speaking of fascism, the demonizing of all other views. It’s a liberal disorder that “b(un)truthful†may suffer from.
Comment by JohnG — October 27, 2006 @ 6:18 pm
Huh? Here you go John, let’s see what fascism really looks like - read the 14 pts of fascism, check back with us later and let us know how many liberal values you find there.
Meanwhile I leave with the original fascist - over to you Benito:
“The truth is that men are tired of liberty.” - Benito Mussolini - no liberal sentiment there.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:26 pmJohn G,
Historians have already judged this administration as the most incompetent, we don’t need to wait 5,10,20,100 years…
http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html
October 27th, 2006 at 6:28 pm#79 Our armed forces moral is high, they think they can win.
A pacified middle east which will benifit all. Leaving will be easy, and will most likely cause more soldiers death if this is done 25 years in the future with the pace of technology.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:30 pm#83 In every respect, we are doing better in Iraq then WWII. By every measure…except time. Since this is a new enemy that uses time as an ally, obviosly, this will increase time to victory.
Iraq has hope, everything else you hear about how it’s a lost cause, is only speculation.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:34 pm#95 Domino theory in reverse? Didn’t work in Vietnam won’t work now. Its still a delusion.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:34 pm#87 Touche, but I wheter it’s a the same “war”, but can see your point.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:35 pmwe are doing better in Iraq then WWII. By every measure
Except that in the time it took to defeat three fascist nations, utterly, …. well you know where I am going with this….LOL
October 27th, 2006 at 6:35 pmJohnG:
I doubt you saying their morale is high makes it true, from what I’ve read it’s very low, with extended tours, improper equipment, an enemy they don’t even know who they’re fighting. You’re a fool. Most soldiers 78% want the hell out of Iraq
http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
October 27th, 2006 at 6:37 pm#95 How do you define winning?(Snow)
October 27th, 2006 at 6:37 pm#88 - If you want to be taken seriously by people who disagree with you, I would suggest you try posting for us a viewpoint you hold that you actually arrived at through thinking it through on your own and isn’t parroted from right-wing neocon talking points. It also doesn’t help when you cast everyone who is of a different political spectrum from you as cartoonish stereotypes, since you’re practically perpetuating one yourself. Not only is it condescending, but it’s arrogant and poisonous towards any potential discourse. I welcome disagreement, but there’s a clear difference between intelligent disagreement and thoughtless political tribalism - right now your rantings fall into the latter of these two categories.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:39 pmoops typo 72% of soldiers want out.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:40 pm#89 Actually, I was accused of being a “goose stepping” nazi. I didn’t start it. I just was giving you the definition of the term, after I #57 accused me, # 58 jumped on the band wagon, then shock me, shock me, shock me, you do too
##############################
Winners win, Losers lose.
Vote for a democrat, and vote for bad news.
You’re liberals are right [sic], the US can’t win.
Of course don’t help, just criticize past sin.
Made some mistakes to win the cold war,
Fixing it now so our kids avoid horror
heads down we leave, from terrorists, thugs, and thieves?
Japan, Germany, seemed to become free.
our armed forced can succeed cuz we’re pretty smart
if liberal senators stop speculating with their mouth farts
just because we have no hindsight time machine
doesn’t mean that we just give up on our team
while democrats pretend there is no social security woes
and sen. clinton says that parents can’t know
with all the liberal special interest bills ready for the inking
not yet, we’re not fooled…with your short sighted liberal thinking
##############################
October 27th, 2006 at 6:40 pm“#83 In every respect, we are doing better in Iraq then WWII.”
The reconstruction after WW2 went smoother than the reconstruction that’s going on in Iraq right now.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:41 pm#91 Vietnam had little technology compared to today, a draft force of non-professional soldiers, and a government who’s people were not elected. Just because it’s kinda the same, when you look at the differences, i just don’t buy the Iraq is vietnam theory
just apples and oranges
October 27th, 2006 at 6:43 pmNot #91, #90
October 27th, 2006 at 6:43 pmOh god not that lame poem again, give it up. BTW social security was fine until you robbed it for your war and replaced its money with a bunch of IOU’s.
And speaking of short sighted, even Bush Sr. knew better than to invade Baghdad.
and short sighted.. “Who knew those levess would break”.
god I could go on all day, but never battle an idiot, they’ll beat you with experience every time.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:44 pm#93 Haha, history is at least +25 years
October 27th, 2006 at 6:45 pm#103 - There’s an unfair stereotype of conservatives that they are petty tribalistic unthinking warmongers that parrot talking points while offering no real views of their own who believe anyone who thinks differently from them to be the enemy, and refuse to hear any critcism of their point of view. Right now you’re doing a very good job of perpetuating that stereotype.
Thankfully though, I know damnned well you do not in any way represent the views of intelligent conservatives. So sorry, I honestly don’t see you as a “real” conservative in any shape or form - just nutcase right-wing extremist no better than any given nutcase leftist extremist, who has nothing to add but their own hate-filled ramblings. After all, extremists like you are always blithering misinformed idiots regardless of what political side they claim to support.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:47 pm#98 Well if the US was still a country that firebombed and leveling cities…we have a complicated rules of engagement over there. Which is a problem.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:47 pm#99 Of course they want to leave, but they choose to serve. Because they believe in the mission.
Also, we have the best equipment in the history of the world…nothing is perfect though. For example the humvee was designed as a light recon vehicle, it was armed force ingnuity that allowed them to armor all those on the field.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:49 pm#100 Safer world for my kids. We already tried doing nothing.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:50 pmAhh like the professional soldiers putting gang tags and hate signs all over Iraq? At least some of the NVA regulars had uniforms and you knew who to shoot. The army has lowered its standards to meet recruiting goals. And since you idiots on the right love drudge here’s a link for our professional army standards:
http://www.drudge.com/ news/ 86408/ army-hits-recruit-goal-lowering-standards
Or the professional soldiers raping, and murdering innocent people.
And this battle has doesn’t even have front lines, at least in Nam there were true front lines in most cases. Take a hill here, a river junction there. We could carpet bomb their supply lines, and our superior technology did not help us in Nam either. This isn’t a tank versus a toyota battle, this is house to house fighting, IED’s, suicide bombers no technology short of robots fighting for you is going to help.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:51 pmJohnG,
Many were duped into a war against Osama Been Forgotten. Or Iraq has WMD’s..
You sir are a liar and a traitor just like your president.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:53 pm#104 Correct, because the terrorists specifically target reconstruction. It’s a new tactic, because germans didn’t want to hurt other germans…but these terrorists will kill anyone, just because they want power.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:57 pm#108 Liar or misinformed
October 27th, 2006 at 6:58 pmA few things that will make the world a better place:
A) Ending the violence in Iraq. I don’t care how it’s done as long as someone finds a way to do it. (If we need more troops and have to stay longer to do it, fine. If we need to withdraw to do it, fine. Let’s just get a coherent strategy together for pete’s sake.)
B) Conservatives and Liberals learning to get along with civility in spite of their disagreement.
C) Not listeing to professional village idiots like JohnG here.
D) Ice cream for EVERYBODY. (Except the lactose intolerant.)
October 27th, 2006 at 6:58 pm#106 Actually, they is the same.
it’s wrong comparison. You should compare difference our tech and enemy tech in Vietnam war and Iraq war.
Vietnam war start with professional soldiers but the prolonged war forced us using draft force.
Woh, Roger asked a puppet pro-Western govt. I affair the truely elected govt will ask our troop out in their first day job.
Same to Bush’s Admin, it was a huge mistake.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:59 pm#109 I don’t know why.
Also, I’m not a christian, but it shows your bigotry of people with other views.
I’m done with you.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:00 pm#109 I don’t know why.
Also, I’m not a christian, but it shows your bigotry of people with other views.
I’m done with you.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:00 pm#112 Thank you for telling me how I’m wrong…Oh wait, you just call me unintellegent, great point. Is this the diplomacy I hear about :) (
October 27th, 2006 at 7:02 pm124 - Thank you for admitting that the situation in Iraq is different than WW2. Now kindly retract your asinine analogy about WW2 and Iraq.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:03 pmWE CAN’T AFFORD IT! WE ARE GOING BANKRUPT
October 27th, 2006 at 7:05 pm131 - How was that hate-filled poem you posted in any way ‘diplomatic’?
October 27th, 2006 at 7:05 pm#119
Statiscally, these isolated events aren’t relevant. Typical liberals lack of perspective.
You obviosly think our soldiers are evil. You obviosuly prefer Sadam.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:06 pm#120 Keep name calling, it shows the last throws of an exhausted mind. I’ll just post this every time someone critizes me instead of the topic.
##############################
Winners win, Losers lose.
Vote for a democrat, and vote for bad news.
You’re liberals are right [sic], the US can’t win.
Of course don’t help, just criticize past sin.
Made some mistakes to win the cold war,
Fixing it now so our kids avoid horror
heads down we leave, from terrorists, thugs, and thieves?
Japan, Germany, seemed to become free.
our armed forced can succeed cuz we’re pretty smart
if liberal senators stop speculating with their mouth farts
just because we have no hindsight time machine
doesn’t mean that we just give up on our team
while democrats pretend there is no social security woes
and sen. clinton says that parents can’t know
with all the liberal special interest bills ready for the inking
not yet, we’re not fooled…with your short sighted liberal thinking
##############################
October 27th, 2006 at 7:09 pmJohn G: “In every respect, we are doing better in Iraq then WWII. By every measure…except time.”
John G: Iraq and Viet Nam — apples and oranges.
People, this little bastard doesn’t have the slightest idea what he’s talking about.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:10 pm#133 We are still in Germany and Japan
October 27th, 2006 at 7:11 pmLet’s begin with little Johnny’s strange opinion that we’re doing better in Iraq than we did in WWII. Johnny, the Democratic party controlled congress and the Whitehouse during WWII. We prosecuted a war against two giant industrial powers who had, by force, taken over much of the world. We forced an unconditional surrender of both industrial powers in less time than it has taken us to get where we are in Iraq today. WTF are you talking about?
October 27th, 2006 at 7:13 pm140 - your first post in this discussion thread was that asinine hate-filled poem, which you’ve kept reposting in a hypocritical mantra. Don’t even pretend that you’re trying to contribute to any sort of intelligent discussion, because you’ve done virtually nothing but troll this topic for angry responses.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:13 pmJohn G: “We are still in Germany and Japan”
Gosh, that’s right John. Listen, can you tell us how many Americans have been killed by insurgents in Germany and Japan during the last 60 years? Hint: it’s less than 1.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:15 pm#144 “little johnny”
##############################
Winners win, Losers lose.
Vote for a democrat, and vote for bad news.
You’re liberals are right [sic], the US can’t win.
Of course don’t help, just criticize past sin.
Made some mistakes to win the cold war,
Fixing it now so our kids avoid horror
heads down we leave, from terrorists, thugs, and thieves?
Japan, Germany, seemed to become free.
our armed forced can succeed cuz we’re pretty smart
if liberal senators stop speculating with their mouth farts
just because we have no hindsight time machine
doesn’t mean that we just give up on our team
while democrats pretend there is no social security woes
and sen. clinton says that parents can’t know
with all the liberal special interest bills ready for the inking
not yet, we’re not fooled…with your short sighted liberal thinking
##############################
October 27th, 2006 at 7:15 pmHe thinks he’s the “desert fox”.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:16 pm143 - Yet we’re no longer in Vietnam.
I’m still waiting for your retraction of your bad ww2-iraq analogy after you admitted yourself that WW2’s reconstruction was different than the one going on in Iraq.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:17 pmNow for Johnnyboy’s strange contention that Viet Nam and Iraq are “apples and oranges.” Let’s review some of the challenges our boys had back in the day: no clear objective, no definition of victory, no compelling strategic reason, only political, can’t tell the friendlies from the hostiles, started with lies to the American public, poor morale among the troops, disillusionment with the mission among the troops and the people, puppet government, civil war dynamics which we failed to understand, the people of that country actually preferred guys we didn’t like….. oh, that’s right, Nam was a jungle and Iraq is a desert — completely different.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:19 pmJohnG
I think we can both agree that the context of Germany and Japan doesn’t compare to the situation in Iraq at all. For starters, Germany and Japan chose to be nation states - we Brits forced into existence the Iraqi state by cobbling together three different groups of people who really don’t get on. Liberating Iraq from a dictator was, by any standard, the right thing to do. However, no coherent plan seems to exist to pull together the Shia, Sunni and Kurds post liberation. I’ll be honest; I can’t see a solution that will create a united Iraq. Too much bad blood and too much History still to happen.
I’m not here to start an argument, I’m on the left of the political spectrum but I would be very interested to hear how you think this situation can be resolved.
Thanks
Eddie
October 27th, 2006 at 7:21 pm#140 Hate filled? Read these comments for what I’m hearing from the thinkprogress kool-aid drinkers.
How was my poem hate filled? I just stated my views, while only bashing some senators…How many times has the preseident been accused as a liar, murderer, etc just on this page.
My point is liberals just don’t understand how thugs over there can’t be sweet talked. It has failed, over, and over, and over.
If we stayed in vietnam, we would have won. And all those other people wouldn’t have been slaughtered. All that blood is on the hands of the hippies of the 70s…every one of those that died after the north came down after we left.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:21 pm#149 Umm, we already made it to bagdad…in under 90 days. Technically, we were in Germany for years afterwards…so maybe this will be shorter. Will you now retract your assinine statment?
October 27th, 2006 at 7:23 pmHey look, I can post poems too:
There once was a troll named JohnG
On blog discussions he liked to pee
With urine so callous
That spat from his phallus
An arc from his tiny weewee
October 27th, 2006 at 7:24 pmThe president has got his war
Folks don’t know just what it’s for
Nobody gives you a rhyme or reason
Have one doubt, they call it treason.
— Les McCann, “Compared to What,” circa 1968
October 27th, 2006 at 7:24 pmJohnG: “My point is liberals just don’t understand how thugs over there can’t be sweet talked. It has failed, over, and over, and over.”
Right. Liberals just coddled the hell out of those Nazis and Japanese.
And, those million dead Vietnamese? Coddled.
Clinton coddled those first WTC bombers right into prison where they still sit today.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:26 pmJohnG: “Umm, we already made it to bagdad…in under 90 days.”
Right, it took us a couple years to crush one of the biggest industrial powers the world had ever known, but it only took 90 days to crush no army with almost no equipment or ammo.
JohnG, you are obviously a young man and possibly you have never even known someone who fought in WWII. Believe me. You need to crack open a few history books.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:30 pm#150 ???
no clear objective?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ infocus/ iraq/ iraq_strategy_nov2005.html
no compelling strategic reason?
removal of sadaam, wmd suspected by all major intellignec agencies, pacifciation of radical muslims before “pocket nukes” in 25 years, energy reserves
Can’t tell friendlies from foes:
thank those terrorist cowards for using kids…it’s not a reason to give up, it’s the reason we need to win.
Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds working together:
Well you got me there, the missing holy grail of victory…but i’m sure pulling out won’t work in the short term.
Iraqis did not prefer Sadaam, I totally disagree with you there. They have been opressed, and the culture has suffered by allowing only strong, ruthless men in authority figures. It’s all they know….but they deserve better.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:34 pm#154 Hmm, don’t agree with my post, so personally attack me. Last argument of the desperate mind.
##############################
Winners win, Losers lose.
Vote for a democrat, and vote for bad news.
You’re liberals are right [sic], the US can’t win.
Of course don’t help, just criticize past sin.
Made some mistakes to win the cold war,
Fixing it now so our kids avoid horror
heads down we leave, from terrorists, thugs, and thieves?
Japan, Germany, seemed to become free.
our armed forced can succeed cuz we’re pretty smart
if liberal senators stop speculating with their mouth farts
just because we have no hindsight time machine
doesn’t mean that we just give up on our team
while democrats pretend there is no social security woes
and sen. clinton says that parents can’t know
with all the liberal special interest bills ready for the inking
not yet, we’re not fooled…with your short sighted liberal thinking
##############################
October 27th, 2006 at 7:35 pm#159 I called liberals, not you.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:36 pm152 - Please. In your first response to this topic, you posted a poem that badly caricatures democrats into cartoonishly demonized stereotypes, and then attacked people for naturally getting angry at you. You’re a hypocrite through and through.
I do not take people like you as being “real” conservatives. You have done nothing but try to drum up anger from ‘liberals.’ All you are is a troll looking to stir up trouble. Fortunately for myself, I happen to find exposing trolls like you and making them run through their song and dance as they’re exposed for what they really are to be an amusing pasttime.
Dance away, little troll! *shoots gunfire at your feet*
October 27th, 2006 at 7:37 pmJohnG.: “Iraqis did not prefer Sadaam, I totally disagree with you there.”
John, you need to keep up. Saddam is, of course, rendered obsolete. I was talking about the fact that most Iraqis favor radical Shiite leaders which we don’t like or support.
And, the point was not that being unable to tell friendlies from foes is reason to give up — you just keep pounding away with those straw men - can’t help yourself I guess. The point was that it was a situation similar to Viet nam. I can also tell by your remarks that you’ve been fed a steady diet of bullshit about Viet Nam. Do you really think “hippies” had the power to shut down the military industrial complex?? I’ve never heard anyone ascribe so much power to “hippies.”
October 27th, 2006 at 7:41 pm#161
They we’re the third or fourth largest army. Just because it was easy, doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard.
I’m not going to question your knowledge of actually what happend on the ground in Iraq…and I’m no young man. With a long family history in the armed forces, though I, never was able to based on some health issues.
There is no treaty with terrorism…it will just take time.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:42 pm163 - They’re attacking you personally because you have nothing intelligent to add other than “LIE-BERALS LOL” and are acting like a complete putz.
There once was a troll named JohnG
On blog discussions he liked to pee
With urine so callous
That spat from his phallus
An arc from his tiny weewee
October 27th, 2006 at 7:42 pm#166 I agree, but look what I had to view on the way down to my first post…I guess I have to provide some “retort flare” for hate bush/hate rumsfeld/it’s hard and i don’t want to deal with it/hate soldiers/hate U.S. crowd.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:45 pm172 - As much as I am put off by John G’s rather lame attempts at trolling, I’m almost as much put off by you using ALLCAPS and frequently rambling about CRAZY CHRISTIANS and whatnot. Need I remind you that in spite of fundamentalist right-wing christians dominating the political scene, liberal christians are still a strong force of positive change in this country.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:46 pmJohnG: “They we’re the third or fourth largest army. Just because it was easy, doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard.”
Again, John somebody has been distorting the facts for you. Iraq did have an army rated in the top five — before we destroyed it in 1991. In 2002, as we have all seen, he didn’t have much left. Our Army advanced on Bagdad virtually un-checked.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:46 pm173 - You’re using the “two wrongs make a right” fallacy to justify your disgusting behavior? Aces. You really have scraped the bottom of the barrel now, John! Fighting stupidity with stupidity of your own is a GREAT IDEA - for a kindergartner, anyway.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:48 pm#174 PS - I’m not trolling, just trying to actually have someone change my views with usign conspiracy theories and specualtion.
Honestly, I’m offended anytime someone defames the office of the president or our soldiers. And it typicaly comes from the left.
I’m sure everyone here is off to see “death of a president” in theaters tonight.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:49 pm180 - Okay man I hear ya but trust me, you’ll come across as less obnoxioius if you just type normally without CAPS FOR EMPHASIS and heavy use of hyperbole.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:52 pm#178 I don’t think my poem was hateful, it just disagreed with your views. Most democrats think the U.S is evil force internationally, most Democrats want to pull out of iraq regardless of the consequences, most democrats, they opposes SS reform, and are against parental notice (not consent) of 13 year old girls having abortions in California.
I’m basing this on official positions of those elected or about to be elected officials.
I see nobody criticizing the “bush in scum” people, so why are my views attacked by personally attacking me?
October 27th, 2006 at 7:54 pmJohnG: “I’m sure everyone here is off to see “death of a president†in theaters tonight.”
I think I see your problem. You need to believe everyone has a mind as sick as yours. I don’t go to snuff films. I didn’t want to see Jesus tortured to death and I don’t want to see Bush shot to death. And, you know what? I’ve been a liberal for my entire adult life. Strange, huh.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:55 pm#185 Let me tell you, it’s WORKING!
October 27th, 2006 at 7:57 pm#186 Well that’s a good sign.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:58 pm179 - “I’m not trolling, just trying to actually have someone change my views with usign conspiracy theories and specualtion.”
Bull. If that were true, you wouldn’t be name-calling and stereotyping liberals so badly - which you did straight away with your moronic poem and subsequent condescending posts. This does not ‘open up debate’ - it closes the door shut and gets people angry.
“Honestly, I’m offended anytime someone defames the office of the president or our soldiers. And it typicaly comes from the left.”
The president falls to the political right-wing, and he is the commander in chief of our armed forces. Is it really any incredible surprise that the bulk of criticism directed towards these things comes from the political left?
“I’m sure everyone here is off to see “death of a president†in theaters tonight.”
There you go stereotyping liberals again - and yet you claim to wonder why people respond so negatively to you.
And no, I won’t be seeing it because I don’t like to watch crap with a capital C.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:00 pm185 - Well it’s not really funny. It’s kind of dumb.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:01 pmMcCain and his son Jimmy need to go to Iraq first to fight before anybody else has to go there!
October 27th, 2006 at 8:04 pmJay I’m pretty sure McCain has served his country.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:07 pm20,000 ?
try 200,000
October 27th, 2006 at 8:07 pm#197 no
October 27th, 2006 at 8:08 pm195 - Thank you Steve, I coldn’t have put it better myself.
Side note: I’m actually an atheist, but I believe strongly in people of different worldviews being able to get along with one another. Which is why I take offense towards people who are all too quick to call christians “stupid.”
Don’t be hatin’, man. Recognize stupidity for what it is and attack it at its source - in this case, a rogue long-nut troll named JohnG who’s trying to stir up trouble by being a total butt. Broad-brushing with hyperbolic statements about “stupid christians” and the like just makes everyone angry.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:10 pmwhat, is mccain vying for the title of chief republican loon. I realize he has tremendous competition and enormous pressure to out loon the loons, but more troops in Iraq…come on; that train left the station at least 2 years ago.
maybe mccain is just trying to publically declare his insanity. apparentlly sucking up to the cult of republicanism has been too much for him and he cracked.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:10 pm.
202 - What the bloody…You’re almost as bad as John G now.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:11 pmI look at people who have experience with situations with more respect than I do those without. I actually laugh my ass off at people who try to tell me how to raise my children( The so called experts) when they have none of thier own.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:13 pm209 - That’s not what you said. You called him a benedict Arnold - McCain may hold views different from your own but he is no traitor to his country. You need to stop with this hyperbole bullshit, because it’s making you look really stupid.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:16 pm#192 Well at least we know that you condone everything else this nut says. Liberal Christian?
October 27th, 2006 at 8:18 pm