The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors. If he took to much medicine or it kicked in too much or if he was off the meds, it doesn’t matter. What does matter, is that the commercial was taped. Someone made the decision to run the commercial with the tremors (for effect), instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.
Paul, the “problem” is … the guy has tremors, has a disease, he has Parkinson’s. He has a disease that the U.S. government refuses to be pursued for a cure so that the James Dobson’s and Jerry Falwell’s of the world can pursue their hatred-based agenda at the expense of science and human progress because they would rather see the end of the world in their lifetime than helping other human beings pursue the hope of a better life for themselves and those that come after them.
The “problem” Paul is that you see the problem being MJF when the real problem is that many people have real problems, such as diseases that religious and political ideology stifle in the name of personal ego and power.
Anyone responding to a drug addicts like Rush Limbaugh is a fool. The reason why Rush is throwing all these stupid jabs is either he took too much of his “drugs” or having a withdrawal effect.
Paul, actually Fox should “act” when he’s off med. Ppl will know what happen with the disease. Who spend years to see their love one dying with diseases like me, will understand the “problem”.
So he should hide his illness so everyone can feel better. Unfortunately people don’t want to see people suffering and they do blame the one with the illness because they don’t want to realize that we are not in control.
Medicating anyone is a science and an art. It is difficult to give the exact needed dose at any particular moment even in a hospital setting with continual blood or urine testing.
Rush is despicable for making fun of someone with a chronic illness as serious as Parkinson.
The Republicans in question support stem cell research, but not embryonic stem cell research. Apparently, the results from embryonic stem cell research have not been very promising. The real advances have come from non-embryonic stem cell research. It is possible that Fox and many others have been duped on the prospects for embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby, for this reason. Abortion is an answer to many of the problems being faced by society today. (Unwanted pregnancy, increased poverty, lack of reproductive rights, etc). The problem is that life begins at conception. The pro-choice lobby wants people to believe that embryonic stem cell research is critically important to curing disease (although it hasn’t shown any promise) because the idea that the embryo could be used to cure future disease, makes abortions more pallatible for those who are considering one.
It is embryonic stem cell research has shown the most promise. Rush Limpballs has been duped by the antiabortion lobby. Embryonic stem cell research is done on embryos that are going to be discarded. Embryos are not people. Rush has been duped into believing that Micheal J. Fox is faking the effects of his disease.
Well, Paul, it would seem your buddy Rush is now claiming he has no problem with MJF going of his meds to impress upon members of Congress the horrible effects of PD.
So MJF can do public appearances and bounce all over the place.
So MJF can appear in front of Congress and bounce all over the place.
Just don’t do it in a political ad.
From Rush’s own disgusting mouth:
Since then, and later in that program in the next sound bite, after consulting a bunch of research, found out that he’d written in his own book that he indeed goes off or manipulates his medication when he does public appearances, which I’ve said, countless times this week, is fine with me. He’s tried to raise consciousness before members of Congress to get funding for research into the disease. I understand how powerful that is.
From MJF:
For example, right now, this is a dearth of medication; not by design, I just take it, and it kicks in when it kicks in. Sometimes, it kicks in too hard, and then you get what’s called dyskinesia, which is that rocking motion that I had when I did the commercial.
“It is possible that Fox and many others have been duped on the prospects for embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby, for this reason. Abortion is an answer to many of the problems being faced by society today.
Comment by paul — October 29, 2006 @ 12:36 am”
-No, it’s just the opposite. Fox is using politicians to get support for embryonic stem cell research which promises to help millions of people who are living with debilitating diseases.
-What do a few cells in a Petri dish have to do with abortion?
-You’re argument can be flipped around to say that the anti-choice lobby has duped a few people into thinking that embryonic stem cell research holds no promise to further their agenda.
I am sick and tired of the GOP closeted self-loathing homosexuals, such as Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge, and George W. Bush > all three of them must be OUTED to stop their destruction of the United States of America! If you want to know more about Bush being secretly Gay, then look up “Victor Ashe” on Google > Ashe was born in 1945, same age as Bush, they knew each other at Yale, and both Skull and Bones members. Ashe became Mayor of Knoxville, TN, and served for 16 years in that position. Pres. Bush named him US Ambassador to Poland in 2004, before the election to prevent any investigation of their sexual relationship. Stop treating Rush, Matt, and George with kit gloves > out them to save our nation!
The pro-choice lobby wants people to believe that embryonic stem cell research is critically important to curing disease (although it hasn’t shown any promise) because the idea that the embryo could be used to cure future disease, makes abortions more pallatible for those who are considering one.
Comment by paul — October 29, 2006 @ 12:36 am
And just what does abortion have to do with embryonic stem cell research, pray tell?
Embryos that researchers want to use for stem cell research are useless. They cannot produce a child if implanted into a woman.
You believe that life begins at conception. Isn’t that life snuffed out when the embryo is placed in a freezer? Are you suggesting that scientists can perform the miracle of resurrection when they take an embryo out of the freezer prior to implanting it?
Breaking News on Americablog.com this morning: RNC Chief Ken Mehlman has been accepting political contributions from a Hollywood Gay porn king producer, Nicholas T. Boyias, CEO of Marina Pacific Distributors > largest distributor of Gay porn in the US > recent releases “Fire in the Hole” and Flesh and Boners.” WOW now we know Mehlman watches Gay porn flicks > lol.
Extra news: Ken Mehlman got officially OUTED as a closeted hypocrite homosexual by blogactive.com on this past Friday. He had a male lover at Harvard Law School named Phil Berg, who is an openly Gay attorney now, and they still see each other too. I have no idea why the GOP wants Mehlman, a closeted Gay man, to run the RNC > ask the Repubs in DC?
WC. God doesn’t create human life, people do. As with any other plant or animal, when the reproductive cells from the male and female combine, the new human life begins. Not before.
LOL no Paul I just OUT closeted hypocrite GOP homosexuals who hate themselves and harm normal Gays. Go yell at Americablog.com for breaking the news on Mehlman being associated with distribution of Gay porn. Shame on the Repubs and yourself if you defend GOP sleaze?!
Paul, there is no God. Our civilization is Nature’s experiment of letting some apes run the laboratory for awhile. After we soil our environment, wer’e history. Geologic time will march on and some forms of life will survive us. New life will evolve and cycles will repeat. End of story.
The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors… What does matter, is that the commercial was taped. Someone made the decision to run the commercial with the tremors (for effect), instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.
So what? You know, it would be problematic for these symptoms to be evident in an episode of Boston Legal (unless the disease is written in as part of the story line, which it is not). If MJF was scheduled to shoot on a day when he was having an episode, no doubt they’d juggle schedule to work around it. They would also make lots of effort to do careful staging and editing.
There is no reason to take such measures for the purposes of this ad. It’s true that the existence of the symptoms help to underscore the point of the ad, but this in no way is proof that this was done intentionally for effect. MJF denies it, and we have no reason either to disbelieve him, or to care one way or another. He is, and always has been, a man of class and integrity, while Limbaugh is, and always has been, a miserable pusbag.
Now, let’s talk about hypocrisy. People were rightfully critical of Clinton for playing fast and loose with his terminology (”tell me what the meaning of is is”.
How is this different from pusbag trying to worm his way out of the MJF thing by making an issue out of never having used the word “fake”. He said MJF was “acting” for effect. He tries to pretend that there is a difference between the two words. Bullshit. Acting is nothing more than professional faking. That’s ok when one is portraying a character in a fictional work, however when one is potraying himself in a non-fictional situation, as with this ad, there is no damned distinction between saying he is “acting” and saying he is “faking”.
Pusbag is a slimy, Clintonesque creep, and anyone who defends him is just the same.
Juan C. I don’t believe I was expressing concern about abortion. I was trying to show possible motivations for exaggerating the prospects of embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby. So far I have not seen any research that embryonic stem cell research has produced any prospect of curing any disease. I think the issue is being manipulated.
I don’t believe I was expressing concern about abortion. I was trying to show possible motivations for exaggerating the prospects of embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby.
What is wrong with you? Embryonic stem cells are not harvested from aborted fetuses. They are harvested from excess embryos left over from in vitro fertilization. This has nothing to do with abortion or “the pro-choice lobby”.
So far I have not seen any research that embryonic stem cell research has produced any prospect of curing any disease. I think the issue is being manipulated.
Oh, and I’m sure you’ve done a great deal of research on the subject outside of whatever sources you get from your cult.
Embryonic stem cells are considered the promising source of future cures for regenerative medicine and tissue replacement after injury or disease.
Because of their unique properties compared to adult stem cells, the possibilities are much more expansive.
Saying that these cures have not yet appeared is sophistic because the research is so…. embryonic, and because it is being squashed by self-appointed moralizers such as yourself.
MJF is a great guy who has Parkinson’s. He was not making a public service announcement. He appeared in a political ad for Democrats in which he made accusations about the Republican challengers. Since he made the decision to do the ad and make the allegations, everything about the ad is open to scrutiny. It is free speech for Fox to make the spot. Liberals, however, can’t use MJF’s disease to monopolize the debate.
when the reproductive cells from the male and female combine, the new human life begins.
I agree that a genetically unique entity is created when the above occurs. It is a bit dramatic to take the argument further that this constitutes “human life” because all the things that make us human are as yet absent at this point. But for the sake of argument, I grant you your premise.
Please respond to the following:
1) Explain why “pro-life” fanatics are not protesting fertility clinics, since hundreds of thousands of unique human lives, per your definition above, are first frozen and then disgarded as medical waste.
2) Explain why Christians, or anyone else, would find the above practice preferable to using those destined-to-die embryos for the common good of all the other human life on the planet.
3) Explain the logic by which a blastocyst should have superior rights over its human host. You may not refer to the Bible or any other holy book for your explanation – you may only refer to the US Constitution, and Constitutionally-derived laws.
4) Explain how any of this makes it forgivable for Rush Pusbag to attack the integrity of Michael J Fox.
5) Explain how Pusbag can be forgiven for attributing MJF’s motivations to the Democrats when MJF stumps equally for Republicans who are in favor of embryonic stem cell research, such as Arlen Specter.
Research on one kind of stem cell—human embryonic stem cells—has generated much interest and public debate. Pluripotent stem cells (cells that can develop into many different cell types of the body) are isolated from human embryos that are a few days old. Pluripotent stem cell lines have also been developed from fetal tissue (older than 8 weeks of development).
The pluripotent stem cells were derived using non-Federal funds from early-stage embryos donated voluntarily by couples undergoing fertility treatment in an in vitro fertilization (IVF) clinic or from non-living fetuses obtained from terminated first trimester pregnancies. Informed consent was obtained from the donors in both cases. Women voluntarily donating fetal tissue for research did so only after making the decision to terminate the pregnancy.
And has also done so for Republicans. As MJF has said, disease is a non-partisan issue that requires bi-partison cooperation. He is going to support any candidate who is in favor of embryonic stem cell research, and work against any candidate who is against. This is not Democrat vs Republican.
Everything about the ad is open to scrutiny.
Sure, so stick to the issues at hand rather than making specious arguments about whether or not he is “faking”. If you can’t win on the merits of the facts (fact is: this disease results in the effects seen with Mr. Fox), then don’t fall into the gutter of ad hominem attack.
Liberals, however, can’t use MJF’s disease to monopolize the debate.
So imply one has to be a “liberal” to support embryonic stem cell research, and true “conservatives” must be against it? Get a grip. Newsflash: there are plenty of left-wing people who are hardcore Catholics, for example, who would be against this research for the same dubious moralistic reasons.
This is not liberal vs conservative, nor democrat vs republican. This is pompous religious zealots vs secularists and pragmatists.
If you were serious about this, you would come out in favor of embryonic stem cell research provided that the stem cells were not culled from aborted fetuses.
If you cannot take that position, then please don’t bother tossing around the fetal red herring.
So, will you support embryonic stem cell research from excess fertility clinic embryos?
gorn. “Explain the logic by which a blastocyst should have superior rights over its human host.” I’m assumming, at some point you were a blastocyst. I don’t think you as a blastocyst should have superior rights to your human host; however, if there is an alternate and more viable means (non embryonic stem cell research) to accomplish the end and save you, why shouldn’t we promote that?
By the way, regarding the fetal red herring – as long as 1st trimester abortion is legal, you have no standing for suggesting that the medical waste resulting from the procedure should not be put to better use than tossing it in the trash. If the procedure becomes illegal, then your basis would be quite different, but that isn’t the case.
The quote that you emphasized does not support your position:
Women voluntarily donating fetal tissue for research did so only after making the decision to terminate the pregnancy.
This shows that in the cases cited, the donation of the tissue had nothing to do with the decision to abort.
however, if there is an alternate and more viable means (non embryonic stem cell research) to accomplish the end and save you, why shouldn’t we promote that?
I have no problem with that. However, you need to show that there is an alternative that constitutes a “more viable means”.
Scientists are pretty rational people. They want to use the most viable means to achieve their goal, not the least viable means. It is comparatively easy (and less controverial) to cull cells from adults, so why wouldn’t they be enthusiastic about doing that if it was indeed a more viable means to achieve the goal?
The scientific community seems united in the belief that the most viable means to successful stem cell research is through embryonic stem cells.
Therefore, I must deduce from your statement that you should provisionally support the research as the most viable means, at least to the extent that the cells are not culled from aborted fetuses.
Can you agree to that?
If so, how about expending some effort at convincing like-minded people of the pragmatic logic of this position.
gorn. I believe this issue would lead to insentivising abortion. Here’s how. Abortion has got to be a very difficult decision. If those who are considering abortion believe that, if they have the abortion, the fetus material could be used by science to cure future diseases, it will help them decide to abort. You don’t see this unintended consequence.
I believe this issue would lead to insentivising abortion … You don’t see this unintended consequence.
On the contrary, I recognized your point already. This is why I gave you the opportunity to clarify your position by stating that you would support stem cell research provided that the stem cells are not culled from aborted fetuses. You could further take the position that to use aborted fetal cells for such research would invalidate any federal funding. Thus, every researcher will be clearly incentivized to cull cells only from excess IVF embryos.
It’s a very clear position that is consistent with everything you’ve said. Do you support it or not?
gorn. got to get bed. I’ll try to figure out a way to explain the leap from frozen embryos to fetuses. (I do believe that is the real issue). But in the meantime, I will concede this point: If there was a way to ensure only those frozen embryos that are not capable of life are used and there were no insentives to produce embryos for the purpose of research, I would agree, that would be reasonable.
“If there was a way to ensure only those frozen embryos that are not capable of life”
You need to work a little harder on this clause of your compromise, because those excess embryos are theoretically capable of being implanted in a uterous and being brought to term. So, with the clause as you’ve written it, you would also have to be against IVF. Since you have not made such a statement before (in this thread anyway), that probably is not what you mean.
But I think you are on the right track. If you can come to terms with the nature of IVF, then you can also come to terms with embryonic stem cell research based on the excess remnants of that process.
I could, in turn, support limitations to ensure that such research could be federally funded only under the provision that the embryos are IVF discards and have not been produced solely for the purposes of the research (nor culled from aborted fetuses).
That’s a compromise that can work, and is a model for how politicians should operate in a functional Consitutionally secular government.
- embryonic stem cell research has great promise. Paul is misinformed. No one has said it has been disappointing. Scientists acknowledge that they need to do more research…but from what they’ve seen, embryonic stem cells offer a lot more than adult stem cells. Paul is just wrong
-If congress has the power to enact change, that is where one would go to plead one’s case. A political ad, such as Fox made, is to impact policy. Where else would he go to o so? Kroger?
It is totally appropriate. The Congress represents the people ( cough) or should.
- and re: Paul’s statement: “WC. God doesn’t create human life, people do.”
Paul, you don’t know what God does or does not do. Sorry to give you the bad news. Opine away…..don’t tell me what God does. Thanks.
I’ve been a fan of Michael Fox for many years and have watched as his medical condition has progressed, I’ve seen him shake a lot and not shake a lot in various stages of the disease…it’s evident now the disease is much worse.
What I ‘wish’ he would’ve said in the commercials would have been a bit more truthful, he doesn’t strike me as a political warrior simply a man trying to do good. In Maryland Michael Steele is not against all stem cell research he objects to embryonic stem cell research.
Scientist think embryonic cells ‘could’ yield great results but at this point no one knows.
Adult stem cells, umbillical cord cells and other research is yielding good results. By some local interviews embryonic cell research is many years away from yielding results. I think Michael Steele’s position is pretty well known by both sides. Mr. Fox could’ve have simply stated that postion, by leaving out Steele’s support for other method’s he opened himself up to criticism, his condition not withstanding you don’t get a political cover when you enter such an emotional debate.
I wish Michael well and if embryonic cell research can help anyone I’m all for it, but just state the facts as they are and let people decide.
RE: “The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors. If he took to much medicine or it kicked in too much or if he was off the meds, it doesn’t matter. What does matter, is that the commercial was taped. Someone made the decision to run the commercial with the tremors (for effect), instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.
Comment by paul — October 28, 2006 @ 11:40 pm”
Why is it a problem that it was taped? The tape showed what the condition is like with that degree of medication. And according to doctors, the meds can have different effects. So, we saw one of the possible effects. And that effect isn’t a one timer. What do you mean “instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.” They were working the best that they could at that time. You are ignorant on this subject. Meds aren’t a gaurantee of no shaking if the “proper” dosage is given. There are more factors than that.
Why would you want Fox to do an ad looking well ( he is not ) when he has this full blown disease and all it’s ups and downs, shaking and less shaking, every day? I’ll tell you why. Because you can’t face the disease. And you resent people being moved by it to help Fox and those like him. The way people are moved is by seeing the reality…what is possible whatever the level of meds. Is reality for you when he is “properly medicated” so that he looks more normal? What about when he is not properly medicated or the meds don’t kick in “properly”? Is that ok as long as you don’t see it Paul? Hommmm Do you get it at all? For you to say he is manipulative because he shows us the disease ( on whatever day ) without disguise is ridiculous. And saying the problem is that people have seen him look normal on the TV shows in the past so they deserve to be skeptical…….God is that dumb. So they can’t/shouldn’t make the leap to….uhh..he’s sicker now?….uhh time has passed……that is just obscenely stupid.
I wish Michael well and if embryonic cell research can help anyone I’m all for it, but just state the facts as they are and let people decide.
Comment by richb, #47
Wrong-O, pal. Your statement trying to put a Republican spin in defense of Michael Steele is horseshit. Here is what Steele said about Stem Cell research on February 9, 2006 when he compared the science with experiments performed on Jews during the Holocaust and with slavery. Steele said, “You of all folks know what happens when people decide they want to experiment on human beings…I know that as well in my community, out of our experience with slavery, and so I’m very cautious when people say this is the best new thing, this is going to save lives.”
Art Abramson, executive director of the Baltimore Jewish Council, criticized Steele for his remarks, rejecting the comparison “between ethical and lifesaving medical research, and the horrors committed by the Nazis in their evil drive to create a master race.”
Its not Michael J. Fox that needs to get their facts straight, but you, my friend. I suggest you start with your own line of crap instead of the Limbaugh/Republican talking points.
Absolutely correct Joe Sixpack. It is just a unbelieveable what has happened to reasoned discourse in this country. It’s all like some bad dream after drinking all night. Only you don’t wake up. Republican Americans have learned from their masters well….the trickle down that actually works. They use words like fact, fairness, balance etc., but the whole thing is turned on it’s head. They literally say what ever they need to in order to shore up an emotional position. The truth is not something that Republicans respect, seek, or even believe in. I know this human tendency is in all of us to some extent…..but not to the extent of a full blown disease as with the wingers.
Paul at # 4 said:The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors.
Paul, it is called multiple takes or filiming a scene repeatedly. Do you think that the actor Ian McCllelan in Lord of the Rings really has magical powers? I mean in the movie he uses his magical powers over and over again…..how did he use his magical powers so many times in the moves?
A director shoots many scenes over an over again. Perhaps sometims Michael J. Fox was fine, perhaps others shoots not so fine.
Please my Republican friends stop confusing fiction with reality. Jim Webb also wrote a fictional novel about some of the experiences hea had in real life, but it is still a fictional account.
Perhaps Paul can contact those 400,000 plus eight cell blastocysts destined for the medical waste dump and have them file a class action lawsuit. Bush killed more cells on a weekend of drunkeness.
kill the unborn so i may live on…maybe ground fetus will turn out to be the green fuel my learjet thirsts for? the big 3 and those pro-life hatemongers dont want us to know! aspen and back and the preteen motherswill pay me to scrape them out, win/win i say!
53) Until you close down in vitro fertilization, you’ll be tossing blastocysts into the waste bucket. Petri dishes are not mothers and they don’t become pregnant or give birth.
We really need for a section of the US to leave to the union so the radical Christian right can live like the Taliban and let the rest of us live without them trying to force their medieval beliefs on us.
First he falsely accused Fox of not taking his medication. Now he criticises Fox for taking too much medication on purpose.
You have got to be a ditto-head to listen to Limbaugh so painfully contradicting himself, and not realise Limbaugh’s “facts” are smears that have nothing to do with the isue at hand.
And think these are the people who are the “values voters” crowd.
Rush: Subscribers to my website can watch the program, and hundreds of thousands do each and every day. So, in the process of describing for them — after all, I am a reporter [ahem] — in the process of describing what I was watching, it is a shock, as you’ve all seen it, it’s shocking; it’s unbelievable.
Is Rush a journalist or an “entertainer?” He can’t seem to decide. Whenever he gets a slimy news tidbit he launches a hyperbolic fit, and if challenged claims he’s “just reporting the facts” – until he gets caught in a lie. Then, he claims “hey, I’m only an entertainer.”
#49 you correctly stated Steele’s comments that he has apologized for, but I think the July 2006 Balto Sun interview of both candidates is accurate and I stand by what I said.
always good to go round with you Joe, have a great Sunday
btw I’ve been a fan of Cardin for years and will vote for him.
Someone please lance that pill addled boil.
-GSD
October 28th, 2006 at 11:17 pmno overmedication, arm twisting, or exaggeration needed to hate Republicans
October 28th, 2006 at 11:23 pmbut, what happened to “i take nothing back…i know what i saw” or whatever it was that limpball exhorted yesterday…
i’ve had enough of this… there is no excuse, no explanation…
October 28th, 2006 at 11:28 pm.
The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors. If he took to much medicine or it kicked in too much or if he was off the meds, it doesn’t matter. What does matter, is that the commercial was taped. Someone made the decision to run the commercial with the tremors (for effect), instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:40 pmPaul, the “problem” is … the guy has tremors, has a disease, he has Parkinson’s. He has a disease that the U.S. government refuses to be pursued for a cure so that the James Dobson’s and Jerry Falwell’s of the world can pursue their hatred-based agenda at the expense of science and human progress because they would rather see the end of the world in their lifetime than helping other human beings pursue the hope of a better life for themselves and those that come after them.
The “problem” Paul is that you see the problem being MJF when the real problem is that many people have real problems, such as diseases that religious and political ideology stifle in the name of personal ego and power.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:57 pmAnyone responding to a drug addicts like Rush Limbaugh is a fool. The reason why Rush is throwing all these stupid jabs is either he took too much of his “drugs” or having a withdrawal effect.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:58 pmPaul, actually Fox should “act” when he’s off med. Ppl will know what happen with the disease. Who spend years to see their love one dying with diseases like me, will understand the “problem”.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:12 amPaul,
So he should hide his illness so everyone can feel better. Unfortunately people don’t want to see people suffering and they do blame the one with the illness because they don’t want to realize that we are not in control.
Medicating anyone is a science and an art. It is difficult to give the exact needed dose at any particular moment even in a hospital setting with continual blood or urine testing.
Rush is despicable for making fun of someone with a chronic illness as serious as Parkinson.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:13 amThe Republicans in question support stem cell research, but not embryonic stem cell research. Apparently, the results from embryonic stem cell research have not been very promising. The real advances have come from non-embryonic stem cell research. It is possible that Fox and many others have been duped on the prospects for embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby, for this reason. Abortion is an answer to many of the problems being faced by society today. (Unwanted pregnancy, increased poverty, lack of reproductive rights, etc). The problem is that life begins at conception. The pro-choice lobby wants people to believe that embryonic stem cell research is critically important to curing disease (although it hasn’t shown any promise) because the idea that the embryo could be used to cure future disease, makes abortions more pallatible for those who are considering one.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:36 amIt is embryonic stem cell research has shown the most promise. Rush Limpballs has been duped by the antiabortion lobby. Embryonic stem cell research is done on embryos that are going to be discarded. Embryos are not people. Rush has been duped into believing that Micheal J. Fox is faking the effects of his disease.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:45 amOh, Rush, Rush, Rush…Republicans give us enough reasons on their own to really really hate them, we don’t need Michael J. Fox to do that.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:56 am#10 Indeed, he did not attack embryonic stem cell. He attacked Fox and his illness. How stupid evil bastard he is.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:59 amI would love to hear Rush Limpball’s reason for also believing that Katherine Hepburn was faking the effects of the disease.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:06 amWell, Paul, it would seem your buddy Rush is now claiming he has no problem with MJF going of his meds to impress upon members of Congress the horrible effects of PD.
So MJF can do public appearances and bounce all over the place.
So MJF can appear in front of Congress and bounce all over the place.
Just don’t do it in a political ad.
From Rush’s own disgusting mouth:
Since then, and later in that program in the next sound bite, after consulting a bunch of research, found out that he’d written in his own book that he indeed goes off or manipulates his medication when he does public appearances, which I’ve said, countless times this week, is fine with me. He’s tried to raise consciousness before members of Congress to get funding for research into the disease. I understand how powerful that is.
From MJF:
For example, right now, this is a dearth of medication; not by design, I just take it, and it kicks in when it kicks in. Sometimes, it kicks in too hard, and then you get what’s called dyskinesia, which is that rocking motion that I had when I did the commercial.
Are you calling MJF a liar, Paul? Prove it.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:06 amOh, and Paul, one more comment on this from Rush:
He’s tried to raise consciousness before members of Congress to get funding for research into the disease. I understand how powerful that is.
So where is Rush’s complaint that MJF is pushing embryonic stem cell research, which you claim is no good, in front of Congress?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:12 am“It is possible that Fox and many others have been duped on the prospects for embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby, for this reason. Abortion is an answer to many of the problems being faced by society today.
Comment by paul — October 29, 2006 @ 12:36 am”
-No, it’s just the opposite. Fox is using politicians to get support for embryonic stem cell research which promises to help millions of people who are living with debilitating diseases.
-What do a few cells in a Petri dish have to do with abortion?
-You’re argument can be flipped around to say that the anti-choice lobby has duped a few people into thinking that embryonic stem cell research holds no promise to further their agenda.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:17 amI am sick and tired of the GOP closeted self-loathing homosexuals, such as Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge, and George W. Bush > all three of them must be OUTED to stop their destruction of the United States of America! If you want to know more about Bush being secretly Gay, then look up “Victor Ashe” on Google > Ashe was born in 1945, same age as Bush, they knew each other at Yale, and both Skull and Bones members. Ashe became Mayor of Knoxville, TN, and served for 16 years in that position. Pres. Bush named him US Ambassador to Poland in 2004, before the election to prevent any investigation of their sexual relationship. Stop treating Rush, Matt, and George with kit gloves > out them to save our nation!
October 29th, 2006 at 1:19 amThe pro-choice lobby wants people to believe that embryonic stem cell research is critically important to curing disease (although it hasn’t shown any promise) because the idea that the embryo could be used to cure future disease, makes abortions more pallatible for those who are considering one.
Comment by paul — October 29, 2006 @ 12:36 am
And just what does abortion have to do with embryonic stem cell research, pray tell?
Embryos that researchers want to use for stem cell research are useless. They cannot produce a child if implanted into a woman.
You believe that life begins at conception. Isn’t that life snuffed out when the embryo is placed in a freezer? Are you suggesting that scientists can perform the miracle of resurrection when they take an embryo out of the freezer prior to implanting it?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:22 amWhat’s next, Paul? Are you going to accuse my wife of pre-murder because she takes birth control pills?
What about a woman that suffers a miscarriage, Paul? Do you believe that God creates life? If so, did God commit abortion?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:26 amRush “Rusty” Limpballs just needs attention, that is why he keeps banging the same drum.
Nah. He is just a twit and a moron who dropped out of college in the first year.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:44 amBreaking News on Americablog.com this morning: RNC Chief Ken Mehlman has been accepting political contributions from a Hollywood Gay porn king producer, Nicholas T. Boyias, CEO of Marina Pacific Distributors > largest distributor of Gay porn in the US > recent releases “Fire in the Hole” and Flesh and Boners.” WOW now we know Mehlman watches Gay porn flicks > lol.
Extra news: Ken Mehlman got officially OUTED as a closeted hypocrite homosexual by blogactive.com on this past Friday. He had a male lover at Harvard Law School named Phil Berg, who is an openly Gay attorney now, and they still see each other too. I have no idea why the GOP wants Mehlman, a closeted Gay man, to run the RNC > ask the Repubs in DC?
October 29th, 2006 at 2:05 amWC. God doesn’t create human life, people do. As with any other plant or animal, when the reproductive cells from the male and female combine, the new human life begins. Not before.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:07 amBreaking News on ThinkProgress: Jay Randal is obsessed with outing gays.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:12 amLOL no Paul I just OUT closeted hypocrite GOP homosexuals who hate themselves and harm normal Gays. Go yell at Americablog.com for breaking the news on Mehlman being associated with distribution of Gay porn. Shame on the Repubs and yourself if you defend GOP sleaze?!
October 29th, 2006 at 2:17 amPaul, there is no God. Our civilization is Nature’s experiment of letting some apes run the laboratory for awhile. After we soil our environment, wer’e history. Geologic time will march on and some forms of life will survive us. New life will evolve and cycles will repeat. End of story.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:34 amPablo, you’re right.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:41 amPaul. I understand your concern. Whenever you get pregnant, do not abort.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:46 amComment by paul — October 29, 2006 @ 2:07 am
So are you going to answer my other posts?
October 29th, 2006 at 2:55 amtroll Paul:
The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors… What does matter, is that the commercial was taped. Someone made the decision to run the commercial with the tremors (for effect), instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.
So what? You know, it would be problematic for these symptoms to be evident in an episode of Boston Legal (unless the disease is written in as part of the story line, which it is not). If MJF was scheduled to shoot on a day when he was having an episode, no doubt they’d juggle schedule to work around it. They would also make lots of effort to do careful staging and editing.
There is no reason to take such measures for the purposes of this ad. It’s true that the existence of the symptoms help to underscore the point of the ad, but this in no way is proof that this was done intentionally for effect. MJF denies it, and we have no reason either to disbelieve him, or to care one way or another. He is, and always has been, a man of class and integrity, while Limbaugh is, and always has been, a miserable pusbag.
Now, let’s talk about hypocrisy. People were rightfully critical of Clinton for playing fast and loose with his terminology (”tell me what the meaning of is is”.
How is this different from pusbag trying to worm his way out of the MJF thing by making an issue out of never having used the word “fake”. He said MJF was “acting” for effect. He tries to pretend that there is a difference between the two words. Bullshit. Acting is nothing more than professional faking. That’s ok when one is portraying a character in a fictional work, however when one is potraying himself in a non-fictional situation, as with this ad, there is no damned distinction between saying he is “acting” and saying he is “faking”.
Pusbag is a slimy, Clintonesque creep, and anyone who defends him is just the same.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:55 amJuan C. I don’t believe I was expressing concern about abortion. I was trying to show possible motivations for exaggerating the prospects of embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby. So far I have not seen any research that embryonic stem cell research has produced any prospect of curing any disease. I think the issue is being manipulated.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:57 ampaul #30
I don’t believe I was expressing concern about abortion. I was trying to show possible motivations for exaggerating the prospects of embryonic stem cell research by the pro-choice lobby.
What is wrong with you? Embryonic stem cells are not harvested from aborted fetuses. They are harvested from excess embryos left over from in vitro fertilization. This has nothing to do with abortion or “the pro-choice lobby”.
So far I have not seen any research that embryonic stem cell research has produced any prospect of curing any disease. I think the issue is being manipulated.
Oh, and I’m sure you’ve done a great deal of research on the subject outside of whatever sources you get from your cult.
Embryonic stem cells are considered the promising source of future cures for regenerative medicine and tissue replacement after injury or disease.
Because of their unique properties compared to adult stem cells, the possibilities are much more expansive.
Saying that these cures have not yet appeared is sophistic because the research is so…. embryonic, and because it is being squashed by self-appointed moralizers such as yourself.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:11 amMJF is a great guy who has Parkinson’s. He was not making a public service announcement. He appeared in a political ad for Democrats in which he made accusations about the Republican challengers. Since he made the decision to do the ad and make the allegations, everything about the ad is open to scrutiny. It is free speech for Fox to make the spot. Liberals, however, can’t use MJF’s disease to monopolize the debate.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:13 ampaul #22
when the reproductive cells from the male and female combine, the new human life begins.
I agree that a genetically unique entity is created when the above occurs. It is a bit dramatic to take the argument further that this constitutes “human life” because all the things that make us human are as yet absent at this point. But for the sake of argument, I grant you your premise.
Please respond to the following:
1) Explain why “pro-life” fanatics are not protesting fertility clinics, since hundreds of thousands of unique human lives, per your definition above, are first frozen and then disgarded as medical waste.
2) Explain why Christians, or anyone else, would find the above practice preferable to using those destined-to-die embryos for the common good of all the other human life on the planet.
3) Explain the logic by which a blastocyst should have superior rights over its human host. You may not refer to the Bible or any other holy book for your explanation – you may only refer to the US Constitution, and Constitutionally-derived laws.
4) Explain how any of this makes it forgivable for Rush Pusbag to attack the integrity of Michael J Fox.
5) Explain how Pusbag can be forgiven for attributing MJF’s motivations to the Democrats when MJF stumps equally for Republicans who are in favor of embryonic stem cell research, such as Arlen Specter.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:23 amResearch on one kind of stem cell—human embryonic stem cells—has generated much interest and public debate. Pluripotent stem cells (cells that can develop into many different cell types of the body) are isolated from human embryos that are a few days old. Pluripotent stem cell lines have also been developed from fetal tissue (older than 8 weeks of development).
The pluripotent stem cells were derived using non-Federal funds from early-stage embryos donated voluntarily by couples undergoing fertility treatment in an in vitro fertilization (IVF) clinic or from non-living fetuses obtained from terminated first trimester pregnancies. Informed consent was obtained from the donors in both cases. Women voluntarily donating fetal tissue for research did so only after making the decision to terminate the pregnancy.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:29 ampaul #32
He appeared in a political ad for Democrats
And has also done so for Republicans. As MJF has said, disease is a non-partisan issue that requires bi-partison cooperation. He is going to support any candidate who is in favor of embryonic stem cell research, and work against any candidate who is against. This is not Democrat vs Republican.
Everything about the ad is open to scrutiny.
Sure, so stick to the issues at hand rather than making specious arguments about whether or not he is “faking”. If you can’t win on the merits of the facts (fact is: this disease results in the effects seen with Mr. Fox), then don’t fall into the gutter of ad hominem attack.
Liberals, however, can’t use MJF’s disease to monopolize the debate.
So imply one has to be a “liberal” to support embryonic stem cell research, and true “conservatives” must be against it? Get a grip. Newsflash: there are plenty of left-wing people who are hardcore Catholics, for example, who would be against this research for the same dubious moralistic reasons.
This is not liberal vs conservative, nor democrat vs republican. This is pompous religious zealots vs secularists and pragmatists.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:32 ampaul #34
If you were serious about this, you would come out in favor of embryonic stem cell research provided that the stem cells were not culled from aborted fetuses.
If you cannot take that position, then please don’t bother tossing around the fetal red herring.
So, will you support embryonic stem cell research from excess fertility clinic embryos?
October 29th, 2006 at 3:35 amgorn. “Explain the logic by which a blastocyst should have superior rights over its human host.” I’m assumming, at some point you were a blastocyst. I don’t think you as a blastocyst should have superior rights to your human host; however, if there is an alternate and more viable means (non embryonic stem cell research) to accomplish the end and save you, why shouldn’t we promote that?
October 29th, 2006 at 3:40 ampaul #34 again
By the way, regarding the fetal red herring – as long as 1st trimester abortion is legal, you have no standing for suggesting that the medical waste resulting from the procedure should not be put to better use than tossing it in the trash. If the procedure becomes illegal, then your basis would be quite different, but that isn’t the case.
The quote that you emphasized does not support your position:
Women voluntarily donating fetal tissue for research did so only after making the decision to terminate the pregnancy.
This shows that in the cases cited, the donation of the tissue had nothing to do with the decision to abort.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:41 ampaul #37
however, if there is an alternate and more viable means (non embryonic stem cell research) to accomplish the end and save you, why shouldn’t we promote that?
I have no problem with that. However, you need to show that there is an alternative that constitutes a “more viable means”.
Scientists are pretty rational people. They want to use the most viable means to achieve their goal, not the least viable means. It is comparatively easy (and less controverial) to cull cells from adults, so why wouldn’t they be enthusiastic about doing that if it was indeed a more viable means to achieve the goal?
The scientific community seems united in the belief that the most viable means to successful stem cell research is through embryonic stem cells.
Therefore, I must deduce from your statement that you should provisionally support the research as the most viable means, at least to the extent that the cells are not culled from aborted fetuses.
Can you agree to that?
If so, how about expending some effort at convincing like-minded people of the pragmatic logic of this position.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:47 amgorn. I believe this issue would lead to insentivising abortion. Here’s how. Abortion has got to be a very difficult decision. If those who are considering abortion believe that, if they have the abortion, the fetus material could be used by science to cure future diseases, it will help them decide to abort. You don’t see this unintended consequence.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:57 ampaul #40
I believe this issue would lead to insentivising abortion … You don’t see this unintended consequence.
On the contrary, I recognized your point already. This is why I gave you the opportunity to clarify your position by stating that you would support stem cell research provided that the stem cells are not culled from aborted fetuses. You could further take the position that to use aborted fetal cells for such research would invalidate any federal funding. Thus, every researcher will be clearly incentivized to cull cells only from excess IVF embryos.
It’s a very clear position that is consistent with everything you’ve said. Do you support it or not?
October 29th, 2006 at 4:05 amgorn. got to get bed. I’ll try to figure out a way to explain the leap from frozen embryos to fetuses. (I do believe that is the real issue). But in the meantime, I will concede this point: If there was a way to ensure only those frozen embryos that are not capable of life are used and there were no insentives to produce embryos for the purpose of research, I would agree, that would be reasonable.
October 29th, 2006 at 4:07 am#42 paul
You’re getting close Paul.
“If there was a way to ensure only those frozen embryos that are not capable of life”
You need to work a little harder on this clause of your compromise, because those excess embryos are theoretically capable of being implanted in a uterous and being brought to term. So, with the clause as you’ve written it, you would also have to be against IVF. Since you have not made such a statement before (in this thread anyway), that probably is not what you mean.
But I think you are on the right track. If you can come to terms with the nature of IVF, then you can also come to terms with embryonic stem cell research based on the excess remnants of that process.
I could, in turn, support limitations to ensure that such research could be federally funded only under the provision that the embryos are IVF discards and have not been produced solely for the purposes of the research (nor culled from aborted fetuses).
That’s a compromise that can work, and is a model for how politicians should operate in a functional Consitutionally secular government.
October 29th, 2006 at 4:26 amMore on Rush under the header “Brain Disease”: http://www.slate.com/id/2152347/nav/tap1/
October 29th, 2006 at 4:50 amFirst of all…..to Paul.
- embryonic stem cell research has great promise. Paul is misinformed. No one has said it has been disappointing. Scientists acknowledge that they need to do more research…but from what they’ve seen, embryonic stem cells offer a lot more than adult stem cells. Paul is just wrong
-If congress has the power to enact change, that is where one would go to plead one’s case. A political ad, such as Fox made, is to impact policy. Where else would he go to o so? Kroger?
It is totally appropriate. The Congress represents the people ( cough) or should.
- and re: Paul’s statement: “WC. God doesn’t create human life, people do.”
October 29th, 2006 at 7:33 amPaul, you don’t know what God does or does not do. Sorry to give you the bad news. Opine away…..don’t tell me what God does. Thanks.
Well as you can see in THIS PHOTO, rush doen’t look to good himself either.
October 29th, 2006 at 7:35 amI’ve been a fan of Michael Fox for many years and have watched as his medical condition has progressed, I’ve seen him shake a lot and not shake a lot in various stages of the disease…it’s evident now the disease is much worse.
What I ‘wish’ he would’ve said in the commercials would have been a bit more truthful, he doesn’t strike me as a political warrior simply a man trying to do good. In Maryland Michael Steele is not against all stem cell research he objects to embryonic stem cell research.
Scientist think embryonic cells ‘could’ yield great results but at this point no one knows.
Adult stem cells, umbillical cord cells and other research is yielding good results. By some local interviews embryonic cell research is many years away from yielding results. I think Michael Steele’s position is pretty well known by both sides. Mr. Fox could’ve have simply stated that postion, by leaving out Steele’s support for other method’s he opened himself up to criticism, his condition not withstanding you don’t get a political cover when you enter such an emotional debate.
I wish Michael well and if embryonic cell research can help anyone I’m all for it, but just state the facts as they are and let people decide.
October 29th, 2006 at 8:27 amRE: “The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors. If he took to much medicine or it kicked in too much or if he was off the meds, it doesn’t matter. What does matter, is that the commercial was taped. Someone made the decision to run the commercial with the tremors (for effect), instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.
Comment by paul — October 28, 2006 @ 11:40 pm”
Why is it a problem that it was taped? The tape showed what the condition is like with that degree of medication. And according to doctors, the meds can have different effects. So, we saw one of the possible effects. And that effect isn’t a one timer. What do you mean “instead of doing a retake when the meds were working properly.” They were working the best that they could at that time. You are ignorant on this subject. Meds aren’t a gaurantee of no shaking if the “proper” dosage is given. There are more factors than that.
October 29th, 2006 at 8:53 amWhy would you want Fox to do an ad looking well ( he is not ) when he has this full blown disease and all it’s ups and downs, shaking and less shaking, every day? I’ll tell you why. Because you can’t face the disease. And you resent people being moved by it to help Fox and those like him. The way people are moved is by seeing the reality…what is possible whatever the level of meds. Is reality for you when he is “properly medicated” so that he looks more normal? What about when he is not properly medicated or the meds don’t kick in “properly”? Is that ok as long as you don’t see it Paul? Hommmm Do you get it at all? For you to say he is manipulative because he shows us the disease ( on whatever day ) without disguise is ridiculous. And saying the problem is that people have seen him look normal on the TV shows in the past so they deserve to be skeptical…….God is that dumb. So they can’t/shouldn’t make the leap to….uhh..he’s sicker now?….uhh time has passed……that is just obscenely stupid.
I wish Michael well and if embryonic cell research can help anyone I’m all for it, but just state the facts as they are and let people decide.
Comment by richb, #47
Wrong-O, pal. Your statement trying to put a Republican spin in defense of Michael Steele is horseshit. Here is what Steele said about Stem Cell research on February 9, 2006 when he compared the science with experiments performed on Jews during the Holocaust and with slavery. Steele said, “You of all folks know what happens when people decide they want to experiment on human beings…I know that as well in my community, out of our experience with slavery, and so I’m very cautious when people say this is the best new thing, this is going to save lives.”
Art Abramson, executive director of the Baltimore Jewish Council, criticized Steele for his remarks, rejecting the comparison “between ethical and lifesaving medical research, and the horrors committed by the Nazis in their evil drive to create a master race.”
Its not Michael J. Fox that needs to get their facts straight, but you, my friend. I suggest you start with your own line of crap instead of the Limbaugh/Republican talking points.
October 29th, 2006 at 9:00 amAbsolutely correct Joe Sixpack. It is just a unbelieveable what has happened to reasoned discourse in this country. It’s all like some bad dream after drinking all night. Only you don’t wake up. Republican Americans have learned from their masters well….the trickle down that actually works. They use words like fact, fairness, balance etc., but the whole thing is turned on it’s head. They literally say what ever they need to in order to shore up an emotional position. The truth is not something that Republicans respect, seek, or even believe in. I know this human tendency is in all of us to some extent…..but not to the extent of a full blown disease as with the wingers.
October 29th, 2006 at 9:16 amPaul at # 4 said:The trouble with the ad is that everyone has seen MJF act in recent television shows without the tremors.
Paul, it is called multiple takes or filiming a scene repeatedly. Do you think that the actor Ian McCllelan in Lord of the Rings really has magical powers? I mean in the movie he uses his magical powers over and over again…..how did he use his magical powers so many times in the moves?
A director shoots many scenes over an over again. Perhaps sometims Michael J. Fox was fine, perhaps others shoots not so fine.
Please my Republican friends stop confusing fiction with reality. Jim Webb also wrote a fictional novel about some of the experiences hea had in real life, but it is still a fictional account.
-GSD
October 29th, 2006 at 10:03 amPerhaps Paul can contact those 400,000 plus eight cell blastocysts destined for the medical waste dump and have them file a class action lawsuit. Bush killed more cells on a weekend of drunkeness.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:03 amkill the unborn so i may live on…maybe ground fetus will turn out to be the green fuel my learjet thirsts for? the big 3 and those pro-life hatemongers dont want us to know! aspen and back and the preteen motherswill pay me to scrape them out, win/win i say!
October 29th, 2006 at 10:33 amam i blocked?
October 29th, 2006 at 10:36 am53) Until you close down in vitro fertilization, you’ll be tossing blastocysts into the waste bucket. Petri dishes are not mothers and they don’t become pregnant or give birth.
We really need for a section of the US to leave to the union so the radical Christian right can live like the Taliban and let the rest of us live without them trying to force their medieval beliefs on us.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:49 amThinkprogress doesn’t block idiots. They just observe and comment on them—your safe
October 29th, 2006 at 10:50 amprevious post refers to # 53 and #54
October 29th, 2006 at 10:52 am#53 – faker
I hope you’re trying to be funny, because otherwise you’ve won the Stupid Comment of the Day prize, and it’s only 7 a.m. PT.
October 29th, 2006 at 11:02 amJudd,
You might want to adjust your clock…one hour back.
October 29th, 2006 at 11:04 amLimbaugh is a such a lying idiot.
First he falsely accused Fox of not taking his medication. Now he criticises Fox for taking too much medication on purpose.
You have got to be a ditto-head to listen to Limbaugh so painfully contradicting himself, and not realise Limbaugh’s “facts” are smears that have nothing to do with the isue at hand.
And think these are the people who are the “values voters” crowd.
October 29th, 2006 at 11:53 amRush:
Subscribers to my website can watch the program, and hundreds of thousands do each and every day. So, in the process of describing for them — after all, I am a reporter [ahem] — in the process of describing what I was watching, it is a shock, as you’ve all seen it, it’s shocking; it’s unbelievable.
Is Rush a journalist or an “entertainer?” He can’t seem to decide. Whenever he gets a slimy news tidbit he launches a hyperbolic fit, and if challenged claims he’s “just reporting the facts” – until he gets caught in a lie. Then, he claims “hey, I’m only an entertainer.”
Rush, Rush, two hypocrites in one!
October 29th, 2006 at 11:54 am#49 you correctly stated Steele’s comments that he has apologized for, but I think the July 2006 Balto Sun interview of both candidates is accurate and I stand by what I said.
always good to go round with you Joe, have a great Sunday
btw I’ve been a fan of Cardin for years and will vote for him.
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