REPORT: Top U.S. Military Officer Recommends ‘We Remove All Troops From Baghdad’
REPORT: Top U.S. Military Officer Recommends ‘We Remove All Troops From Baghdad’
President Bush has consistently said that his strategy in Iraq is dictated by military officials on the ground. Last night on the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, columnist Mark Shields revealed that one of the “highest ranking men” in the military has recommended removing all U.S. troops from Baghdad. Here’s the key excerpt:
MARK SHIELDS: The highest ranking or certainly one of the highest ranking men in the United States military today has recommended that we remove all troops from Baghdad, all American troops from Baghdad…All of the troops out of Baghdad, secure the road to the airport, secure the oil fields and the borders, and say that the pacification and the maintaining of order in Baghdad is the responsibility of the Iraqis. That is the recommendation of probably one of the most — probably the most respected man in uniform today.
JIM LEHRER: You mean in uniform, serving on active duty today?
MARK SHIELDS: That’s right.
JIM LEHRER: So who did he make this recommendation to?
MARK SHIELDS: He made it to the civilian leadership of the United States.
If Shields’ report is true it represents an acknowledgment by the military that the conspicuous presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is actually making the situation worse. This is one of the core rationales of the American Progress plan, Strategic Redeployment.
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A sensible suggestion from the US military. The Iraqis have to take responsibility for their own security.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:04 amMay those who know of the crimes of this Administration continue to come forward with testimony and evidence of wrongdoing.
-Briseadh na Faire
October 28th, 2006 at 10:13 amI feel so ashamed that I voted for Bush but I’m too scared to join the military.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:24 amHey you guys can’t be saying strategical redeployment, Baker Kissinger and Rove haven’t yet announced the new neo-name for it yet!! =)
October 28th, 2006 at 10:28 amSo a year later we learn Murtha, Kerry and Feingold were correct. Currenlty Murtha is being swiftboated by Bush thugs.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:29 amShrub-In-Chief only pretends to listen to the generals. Our military commanders must convince Darth Cheney whose buddies have not yet made a single dime from the Iraqi Oil business. After all, this little war was for their benefit and not those of Iraq and certainly not for ours.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:47 amSo, a high ranking General is advocating a “cut and run” strategy? What about McCain’s suggestion we send in an additional 20,000 troops? I thought that was the way we had to go, and keep on going.
Isn’t the official policy “stay the course?” oh, but we’ve never been “stay the course” it’s always been “complete the mission.” But what’s the mission?
Deprive Saddam Hussein of WMDs, but he didn’t have any.
Remove Saddam Hussein from power. We did that although it’s an international war crime, to invade a country for the purpose of regime change, but we did it anyway.
There’s a litiney of “missions” some completed, some not.
One thing is certain, when we pull out, there will be a brief period of bloodletting (unless a strong U.N. peacekeeping force replaces U.S. forces).
After the bloodletting, the Iraqi people will realize they’re on their own, and will begin to govern and police themselves.
The biggest downside to pulling out? It is inevitable that the Iraqi government, without the support of the U.S. will repudiate all U.S. contracts in favor of companies from the E.U. Iraq will eventually pay for its reconstruction with oil revenues, and that money will strengthen the E.U. economy, and not American Solely Owned Businesses (SOBs).
October 28th, 2006 at 10:49 amjeff, you have confessed, repented and are therefore absolved, in my book…
for your pennance you must spread the truth… go and sin no more…
there’s plenty of time to join the military at a later date - you’d be crazy to do it now, that’s for sure…
October 28th, 2006 at 10:52 amBut the 38% or so that still supports Bush would rather listen to him when he says “the generals on the ground in Iraq make the calls, and they say we stay.”
Notwithstanding Bush’s utter incompetence (along with Rummy), what should be inconceivable to most people is the fact that we have to have an outside group (the Iraq Study Group) get together and formulate a plan to win and get us out of Iraq. That by itself should reveal to the American people what a sorry government we have. And here I thought a Presidential administration, working with the Pentagon, should be capable to plan, fight, and win a war.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:58 amDoes anyone think it’s General Pace who made the suggestion?
October 28th, 2006 at 11:01 amBut, But, Rove just said yesterday that we can’t let the oilfields of the middle east be taken over by terrorists!
October 28th, 2006 at 11:01 amOh, never mind, they already have. We have met the enemy and it is us.
Jeff? Is that you or Dave?
October 28th, 2006 at 11:02 amWC, “I thought a Presidential administration, working with the Pentagon, should be capable to plan, fight, and win a war.”
You are correct. But when is the last time the U.S. had a Presidential administration?
October 28th, 2006 at 11:03 amBush doesn’t listen to the generals. Never has. Never will.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:05 amMy blood boils when I hear phrases like “Iraqis have to take responsibility for their own security”.
Who the hell ushered in their insecurity? This is like breaking into someone’s home, tearing the place apart and telling the homeowner that they are responsible for what just happened. WTF?
The United States inavaded a country that wasn’t a threat to its security in any way, based this aggressive attack on lies to the American people and the rest of the world, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and now they need to “take responsibility”? I don’t think so.
We are responsible, and we as a people should do everything in our power to correct this abomination. I think the killing stops once we abandon our 14 large, permanent military bases, give them back control of their resources, and get the hell out of their country. We, the U.S., must pay for all reparations, rebuild their infrastructure, and allow the Iraq’s leaders to govern their people and their land as they choose. Fuc* the geopolitics! It’s time to get serious about another way to fuel our voracious needs. If we have to steal and kill to maintain our “way of life”, then that way of life needs to change.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:17 amDidn’t I read something two days ago about McKraneFly wanting to send another 25,000 troops to Baghdad?
October 28th, 2006 at 11:18 amJeff? Is that you or Dave?
Comment by RUCerioius — October 28, 2006 @ 11:02 am
Funny!
I would think that at this point, you would have to have serious issues to miss the truth, and still support the Bush Regime.
I agree with Zoo - the Iraqis will never stand up as long as we are there to prop them up. A kid doesn’t learn to walk on his own until his mother stops holding his hand…
October 28th, 2006 at 11:18 amThe White House has been treating the military with a lot of disrespect over the last 5 years, it is about time they start to be defiant with Rummy & the President.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:19 amBut when is the last time the U.S. had a Presidential administration?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — October 28, 2006 @ 11:03 am
January 19, 2001
October 28th, 2006 at 11:19 amPeople don’t understand how bad this is going to get…..
The war was lost the minute that they did not listen to General Shinseki and put the 500,000 troops on the ground to secure the peace, boarders….
From the beginning they didn’t understand the importance of training Iraqi troops; other countries wanted to help with the training and we told them,”we got it”….
They never understood that we had only one chance to get all this right, and that of it had to work perfectly.
Now, we’re f#ucked…..No, no,,,,,, We’re F#UCKED!!!!
(General Eric Ken Shinseki
Place of birth Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
Allegiance U.S. Army
Years of service 1965-2003
Rank General (retired)
Unit 9th and 25th Infantry Divisions
Commands Army Chief of Staff, Commanding General United States Army Europe, Commander Allied Land Forces Central Europe, Commander NATO Stabilization Force in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Battles/wars Vietnam War
Awards Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Distinguished Service Medal
Legion of Merit (2)
Bronze Star (3)
Purple Heart (2)
General Eric Ken Shinseki (born November 28, 1942) served as the 34th Chief of Staff of the United States Army (1999 - 2003). He is the first Asian American four-star general in U.S. history and the first Asian American to lead one of the four military services. During his tenure, he initiated an innovative but controversial plan to make the Army more strategically deployable and mobile in urban terrain by creating Stryker Interim-Force Brigade Combat Teams. His long-term initiative was called Objective Force and the main long-term weapons program he pushed was the Future Combat Systems.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:22 amHe is famous for his remarks to the Senate Armed Services committee before the war in Iraq in which he said “something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers” would probably be required for post-war Iraq. Secretaries Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz publicly disagreed with his estimate.
When the insurgency took hold in post-war Iraq, Shinseki’s comments and their public rejection by the civilian leadership were often cited by those who felt the Bush administration deployed too few troops to Iraq.
(Wikipedia Thank You)
We, the U.S., must pay for all reparations, rebuild their infrastructure, and allow the Iraq’s leaders to govern their people and their land as they choose.
Comment by Jay — October 28, 2006 @ 11:17 am
Jay,
We The People didn’t do this. The Bush Regime did this. Let Bush and his Henchmen pay for their mess. I can barely afford to pay for the mess they’ve created here…
I do have sympathy for the Iraqis. I just don’t feel responsible for paying for something I opposed and continue to oppose. Try Bush Co for war crimes and force them to ante-up. I’m tired of We The People having to pay for their messes. It’s not fair to us either.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:23 amThe United States military is sworn to uphold the Constitution. It’s time they did by opposing this illegal occupation of a soverign nation for the sake of regime change.
Besides, they are the ones who have the weapons…
October 28th, 2006 at 11:25 am“All of the troops out of Baghdad, secure the road to the airport, secure the oil fields and the borders, and say that the pacification and the maintaining of order in Baghdad is the responsibility of the Iraqis.”
October 28th, 2006 at 11:31 amHey, If it wasn’t oil fields and was something else that we were there for, lets say….. Crack. What if we were there for the Crack…? Would we pull our forces out of Bagdad and say let people defend themselves but were going to defend “our” most precious recourse, “The Crack”, would that make any sense? Especially since we are there to,”Build a Democracy” a Democracy with their Crack!
unbelievable @21,
I hear you, and I felt the same way a couple of years ago, but it’s time we step up, and unlike our domestic enemies, take responsibility for what’s been and is being done in our name. We have to bigger now. If we want elected officials that represent us to win on November 7th and going forward, we have to be willing to make right the injustices that have been wrought not just here, but everywhere. It’s time to lead now. Truly lead. Let’s go!
October 28th, 2006 at 11:35 amWe have to be bigger now.
Typos.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:38 amFinally, a top US military official makes a suggestion that makes sense! Let the Iraqi’s sort-out Bagdad, and once they do, maybe there will be a chance to make a positive change in Iraq. To simply have our troops patrolling the streets while sniper units pick them off one by one is insanity - and patrolling Bagdad is under the Iraqi’s jurisdiction anyway. They have failed to send in the troops they promised, and tied the US hands in regard disarming the militias - so Bagdad is a situation they need to handle themselves.
This is the first sensible suggestion I have heard coming from the US military - but I bet Bush and Rumsfeld ignore it, just as Rumsfeld refused to allow any post-war planning. We MUST win in the mid-term elections to insure that American lives are saved and a semblance of sanity replaces the “Stay the Course” attitude that permeates throughout the Neo-conservatives who control Washington. Bush’s new language and refraining from saying stay the course is nothing but rhetoric and is simply more smoke and mirrors before election time.
The course we need to “stay” is our efforts to replace the Bush administration with a government that represents the people, not corporate America and the religious-right.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:46 amIraq and Iran – The tip of an Iceberg that could sink America!
…Who the hell ushered in their insecurity? This is like breaking into someone’s home, tearing the place apart and telling the homeowner that they are responsible for what just happened. WTF?…
Comment by Jay — October 28, 2006 @ 11:17 am
that’s been my argument for some time now… i also understand un’s comment… but we can’t just walk away from the mess we, the US, made…
October 28th, 2006 at 11:49 ami’m all for having bushco pay out the nose for their mistakes, but the only way this country will regain any kind of respect, is to “do the right thing”, and that is, always, cleaning up after yourself…
and this is one ginormous mess… it will take years, at the least…
.
Let’s go!
Comment by Jay — October 28, 2006 @ 11:35 am
Sorry Jay, I can’t agree. I think us taking responsiblity for things we didn’t do only sends a message that we can be used this way. That it is better for future governments to beg for forgiveness than ask our permission. That’s not a future I want to see. It’s already a present that has us as slaves to the whims of a group of madmen…
George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld owe the Iraqi people a lot. And they can afford it more than we, without National Healthcare, can…
October 28th, 2006 at 11:52 amOK, suit yourself. Just one last comment on the matter of responsibility and Iraq. It’s not about who pays, it’s about making sure that justice is served.
Putting Bush and his handlers behind bars is a whole ‘nother ball of wax. I think we should work toward that justice with equal determination.
October 28th, 2006 at 12:14 pmHistorically occupations have been so easy and effective…. what a suprise.
haha - Did it really take these people 3 years to figure out that you cannot occupy a Muslim nation without large and enduring casualties? I mean really, don’t we see what Israel has been dealing with over the last 50 years?
http://www.getsomejosh.com
October 28th, 2006 at 12:41 pm#19. yup.
October 28th, 2006 at 12:49 pmThe USA has been building fortifications around Iraq from day one. This has always been the plan of Bushco. Have private armies and Iraqis keep the peace while Bushco’s private armies and the US military secure the Iraqi oil for the benefit of Bushco only.
It has been robbery from the start. This Officer is just preparing the stage for Bush to say just that “we are moving out of Bagdad.” It is occupation with help from payed enforcers. Moving out of Bagdad does not change the reality of Iraq being occupied and held prisoner of America.
There is one and only one road for America to take. America get out of Iraq. Killers, torturers, rapists and robbers are not welcome in any country. For America there is no honorable path relative to Iraq only get out and start paying for the damage you have caused.
It must be up to more principled people from where ever to help cleanup after the US leaves. The US needs to pay like any criminal needs to do. Pay repartations for all the damage to all the infrastructure, to the oil drilling and supply systems, to the culteral heritage destroyed and damaged, and most of all to the millions of Iraqis who are the real victims that have been irreparably damaged by the stupidity and down right evil empire that the USA has become.
October 28th, 2006 at 12:50 pmGood post’s all, I’m with Unbelievable on this one, no way personaly I can afford one more nickle for anything….Social Security is so small barely survive now..Besides inflation now I am saddled with them taking out $89.00 a month and still have to pay co-pay’s….Not to mention no one can understand this medical mess they gave us senior’s. I was better off by $100.00 a month last month..Does any one understand what is happening to the poor and middle class across our country..The food bank I volenteer at grew by 50 famalies this month alone….It is staggering…..Remember also the food bank’s only have enough food to give out a few day’s worth of food for each famely. Did you all know lot’s of our military is in the same fix I am?. Shameful they fight for us and have so little to live on..
Yes I am working hard to boot out this bunch, but, and a big but, how is it going to work if we only get the house.? A small step and not good enough. If we are realy lucky and get the senate as well are they going to do what we the people demand ?….It hasen’t worked so far, none of my representatives have responded at all…I try to be hopeful but it is diffacult……
We should rebuild what we have broken, but, first bring all our troop’s home. stop these war’s and let these people sort out their own mess in Iraq…Bush and this bunch should be in jail and all their assets siezed but I don’t think that is going to happen…….Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 12:52 pmStep One: remove all US troops from Baghdad. Step Two: remove all US troops from Iraq. Step Three: remove all US troops from the Middle East.
October 28th, 2006 at 12:59 pmI do believe that he’s got it…
doug - that is the most realistic solution, i suppose… yes, well put…
i understand that the USmilitary need to pull out, pronto…
October 28th, 2006 at 1:00 pmsome of those “more principled people” can and should include the US…
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katy:
I always enjoy your input here but I think you are wrong. The principle we usually follow is we do not allow murderers, rapists, thieves to clean up after themselves. Responisible third parties do that work. And if possible we get the criminals to pay the bills. Bushco needs to pay Iraqis and the UN to clean up. The intenational law enforcers from every country and jusisdiction in the world will need to dig deep into foreign holdings and bank accounts of these scoundrals. Perhaps transfer of whole companies and all the investors assest will need to be transfered to Iraq or the Iraqi People.
Nope. Just keep the USA out of Iraq.
October 28th, 2006 at 1:01 pmTo simply pullout and leave Iraq in the mess it is in would be irresponsible, whether you’re a Democrat or Republican. I disagree with almost everything Bush and Co. have done - but they did it in the name of the United States, and if we simply pull-out and leave without attempting to bring some sort of sanity to the country is downright irresponsible and ignores the destruction that Bush and the Neo-conservatives wrought upon Iraq.
The only “truth” I have heard was when Bush stated that we can’t allow Iraq to fall into the hands of Al Queda or the terrorists/insurgents. It makes me sick that he created this mess, and even has the nerve to admonish his own father, who did listen to his advisors in regard taking-out Saddam Huessein - who was told that what we might get in return would be far worse than Huessein. To Bush 41’s credit, he did listen to those advisors - and now his son has destabilized the entire Middle-East.
No matter how you look at it, allowing Iraq, with the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world to fall into the hands of Al Queda or a government hostile to the United States and the European Union would result in another government similar to Iran - and as I stated in the article above, Russia and China would immediately make long-tern oil and natural gas contracts with the government, arm them to the teeth, and then another rogue nation emerges that has the unlimited wealth of the oil proceeds to further destabilize the Middle-East.
A Shiite led government in Iraq would almost guarantee the fall of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, and other nations that are at least friendly to the United States. No, I am not a Republican or a Neo-con; in fact, I may be one of Bush’s harshest critics, but we must face reality, and the truth of the matter is that Bush and Co. have caused so much hatred of the United States and its allies that we are now faced with a situation that at best is bleak - and at worst, could escalate into World War III.
We need a President that has a military background and is also a proven diplomat; we face a very uncertain world as our so-called allies, China and Russia, thwart almost every move the United Nations makes in attempting to reign-in these rogue nations.
To be completely honest, I believe that Colin Powell was used and abused by the Bush Administration - lied to and now he hardly faces the public as he feels the shame of being a tool to start the Iraq War. That withstanding, if he would turn Democrat and run for President, this nation would have the kind of leadership we need in a time of crisis like this, however, Colin Powell wouldn’t put-up with the cronyism and corruption that is rampant in Washington, so no one will approach him and appeal to his patriotism to run for President and help us get out of this mess. He would shake-up Washington like no President has ever done before - which is exactly why no one worth their salt in the political machine is pressing him to run for President.
They want to keep the lobbyist money flowing and a “manageable” degree of bribes and corruption - and Powell, if he won the Presidency, would put a quick halt to most of the corruption we see on an everyday basis. Reality is reality - and we are on the verge of a major military conflict, and Powell has the wherewithal militarily, has the diplomatic skills we need, and still remains an American hero in the eyes of much of the country.
Yes, I’m a liberal and a Democrat - but we need sound, experienced leadership in Washington, and neither the Democrats or Republicans have a candidate for 08 that fits that bill - and if Colin Powell still believes in America, I think he should run as an Independent - and I’d bet everything I had that he would win in a landslide. I am so friggin tired of partisan politics and one party placing their own jobs and goals above the prosperity and security of this country. It’s time for a radical change, and that change could come with Colin Powell as President - but he is so disillusioned with the bull-crap that is status quo in Washington that it would take a major appeal of the people themselves to get him to run,. And by doing so, we might save our democracy and see this country get back on the right track again.
Getting an honest man elected to the office of the President is like attempting to squeeze water out of a rock - it simply won’t happen unless there is a groundswell of public opinion and a grassroots effort to finally halt the corruption and incompetence in our government emerges. We don’t need more of the same, we need a radical change, and who would fit the bill better than Colin Powell??
Iraq and Iran – The tip of an Iceberg that could sink America!
October 28th, 2006 at 1:02 pmMark Shields must be talking about Abuzaid. He is more sensible than Pace or Casey. Remember, Woodward wrote Abuzaid told John Murtha “you and I were this far apart”, about one-fourth of an inch between fingers.
So this is pretty much Murtha’s plan too. So it must be Abuzaid.
If Dems take the House or both houses, this plan will go forward.
Bush can say - hey, the generals recommended this.
Dems can take some credit too. And the soldiers will start coming home.
And superimpose on this the Baker-Hamilton Plan.
Looks like things are converging. And Abuzaid leaked it to Shields, who has credibility among Dems.
October 28th, 2006 at 1:14 pmA good post William, I don’t agree with a lot of you’re post but it is good non the less…Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 1:15 pm…Responisible third parties do that work. And if possible we get the criminals to pay the bills. Bushco needs to pay Iraqis and the UN to clean up…
Comment by doug — October 28, 2006 @ 1:01 pm
i do agree, with all of it…
i think also, that there are many US citizens who would want to be there to help, and should be… it’s as worthy a calling as any soldier’s…
just sayin’…
you ALL will enjoy letterman venting to/at o’lielly:
October 28th, 2006 at 1:18 pmLetterman vs. O’Reilly…Round Two…Fight!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/ 2006/ 10/ 27/ letterman-vs-oreillyround-twofight/
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i meant to add this:
October 28th, 2006 at 1:22 pmi agree with dave, when he said, “do whatever it takes to stop americans dying”…
.
I believe that Colin Powell was used and abused by the Bush Administration
frankly, i don’t want someone so easily duped and swayed to be the president… thanks for the inspiration though…
October 28th, 2006 at 1:27 pmthere was a time i would have agreed whole heartedly…
colin f’d up…
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Sharon Cox:
I don’t think that anyone here is suggesting that the people who can least afford it should pay back the Bushco fiasco. Quite the contrary, Bush’s trillion dollar tax gift to the riches people in America just need to be reversed and that should go a long way to cover it. There are other means to get more money from the richest in America as well such as higher estate taxes.
unbelievable:
The USA taking responsibility needs to be done in a manner responsible to the American People. But it needs to be remembered that Americans did elect these monsters so you to are responsible whether you voted for them or not. The US government will have more money as soon as you reverse Bush’s tax cuts. You also could create a new Iraq reparations tax which could flow directly to Iraq. You cannot say you are being responsible avoid responsibility.
James k Sayer:
No three step game. It will just be a ruse. Once out of Bagdad, out of sight out of mind. No, no, no. Get out of Iraq and start paying. Period.
Katy:
Certainly Katy such a plan will happily welcome good people in America being part of the whole movement to help Iraq. But it is imperative that the administration not be American or we will find some of the same killers and thieves with their fists in the pot to make a buck.
I do envision everyone who has been close to Bushco will end up having their assets seize in whatever country or bank they reside in.
Thanks, nice posts all!
October 28th, 2006 at 1:29 pmWilliam and Cormier:
October 28th, 2006 at 1:34 pmNope. The same was said about Vietnam. Vietnam did fine without further US killing. Thank you very much.
Yep! Katy, I agree and don’t think the voters would vote for Powell either. It’s one thing to make a little mistake, like forgetting to take out the garbage or leaving the light’s on the car and having a dead battery….A major disaster was (created) in Powells case…He didn’t speak the truth when he knew it and 600, 000 plus Iraq citizens died and 2,800 of ours increasing daily are dieing…No..he would not get my vote….Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pmGreat post’s, doug, keep up the good work….Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 1:42 pmThe USA taking responsibility needs to be done in a manner responsible to the American People. But it needs to be remembered that Americans did elect these monsters so you to are responsible whether you voted for them or not.
I disgree. We The People did not elect them and therefore are not personally responsible for what they do. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone blame the citizens of Germany for Hitler’s Holocaust… So why blame us for a President who was forced upon us by the Supreme Court (who we do not elect either).
I think the most responsible thing we can do, is vote against their actions and demand we remove our military from Iraq.
Unfortunately for me, I do not live in a state where there is much up for grabs this election. I got to vote for one Rep in Congress. But I’ll be surprised if the Republican incumbent gets the boot. Makes it hard to feel guilty about a government I protest.
The US government will have more money as soon as you reverse Bush’s tax cuts.
I’d love to Doug, and I just voted against the Republican Congressman currently representing me. I regular write to my other Representatives and even to the White House. I sign petitions, and I encourage others to vote. That’s about the extent of my authority, therefore the extent of my responsibility. As the reality is that authority is equal to responsibility…
You also could create a new Iraq reparations tax which could flow directly to Iraq. You cannot say you are being responsible avoid responsibility.
Comment by doug — October 28, 2006 @ 1:29 pm
Personally, no I cannot. And frankly, enough of my money has already been taken an misused. Let Halliburton step up and pay for this mess. It is not the responsibility of the American people.
I can’t be responsible if I’m not first given the authority to decide. Claiming the average American is responsible for what happened in Iraq is not only not fair, but frankly irresponsible.
You’re certainly freee to donate to the cause. I mean, you are, by your own logic, just as responsible being a member of the alliance…
October 28th, 2006 at 1:50 pmBush and this bunch should be in jail and all their assets siezed but I don’t think that is going to happen…….Blessings
Comment by Sharon Cox — October 28, 2006 @ 12:52 pm
Ironic that these are the very people who claim to be lovers of Freedom, huh? :)
October 28th, 2006 at 1:52 pmOne other thought - from whom do we take the money to rebuild Iraq? From Medicare? From education? From our poilce, firefighters, teachers? From our infrastructure? From caring for the citizens who are already being milked for every last dime?
Why take from the poor and indigent (as that is always who suffers) in America, when Iraq has oil fields… Use the oil to rebuild Iraq, but as was promised, from the beginning of this nightmarish battle.
The American people are victims in this mess too.
October 28th, 2006 at 2:00 pmUnbelievable, Yep!..lier’s all……Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pmdoug - still around? btw, you are not in the usa?
found this at crooksandliars…
concrete solutions
October 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pmhttp://arabist.net/ archives/ 2006/ 10/ 25/ concrete-solutions/
from whom do we take the money to rebuild Iraq?
doug offered at least 2 suggestions, the first is most necessary:
.The US government will have more money as soon as you reverse Bush’s tax cuts.
.You also could create a new Iraq reparations tax…
and, of course, the iraqi oil…
October 28th, 2006 at 2:13 pmSo, are we reverting to a Kingdom of Jerusalem strategy of fortress castles employed during the 12th Century?
October 28th, 2006 at 2:21 pmCan anyone refute the argument that whatsoever this man touches turns to humungous turds? Lets face it, the expectations were low to begin with, since past performances were abysmal. Had he not been born with the proverbial silver spoon, he’d probably be carrying a cardboard sign for food. We are at the tipping point in our experiment and we need to make sure that it continues in a positive manner and not be trashed by the bozos currently in control of everything.
October 28th, 2006 at 2:46 pmAny one here know anything about the longhouse coalition.org ?…..
Since Palosi and Dean both have said they will not impeach bush where does that leave us even if we win the house and senate.? I know my answer, just alway’s like to see what quicker wit’s than mine have to say…..Blessings All
October 28th, 2006 at 2:48 pmBut Bushie says he listens to his generals.
Ah, but only when they tell him what he wants to hear.
The boy-king rules. The minions bow down before him. Whoever the general was that spoke up, well, we may read of another early retirement soon. There are already two lifelong Republican retired generals who are abandoning their party and going to the Demcorats. There were dozens of other retired military who tried to persuade the boy-king that his so-called plan was not really a plan and was not working. There were dozens of enlisted soldiers who spoke out Wednesday against the war and the way it is being conducted, er..lost.
How would any parent feel now whose son/daughter is being sent to Iraq? Knowing all we know now, knowing what the military thinks, knowing the statistics, knowing that Bush said troops will be in Iraq through at least 2008, knowing that most Americans do not back Bush on this any more - how could any parent feel anything but anguish, fear and sorrow?
October 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pmBush is the one who should be waterboarded. Bush is the one who should be made to pay.
I don’t think we should impeach him right now - if the Dems win some power, there is a lot more urgent work to begin - but one day in the future, Bush is going to have to be held accountable - if impeachment is desired by a majority, if removal from office is desired by the majority, if even more drastic action (prosecution) is desired by the majority, then so be it. But for now, we have to do whatever we can to get back on the right track.
#33, sharon
I hear you girl!! Keep up the good fight.
BTW, I am supposed to switch to internet high speed tomorrow - I hope it improves my connection ability to TP; if you don’t hear from me any more, it is because I am unable to get through TP’s filter.
October 28th, 2006 at 2:55 pmOn my present slow dial-up, I can usually get through after 5 or 6 attempts - I hope my new connection is better.
sharon - what marie said…
also, my opinion, pelosi etal do not want to freak out the peoples… this country needs desperately to heal…
first come the hearings - and there will be hearings, subpoenas and oversight, i’m confident of that…
should those findings point to impeachment, i’d bet the peoples will go along with it…
marie - you will LOVE high speed connection! it is so worth it! enjoy!
October 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pm.
Taking impeachment off the table is a mistake. People who have been frustrated by the Dems lack of prowess against this juggernaut, who were expecting the gloves to come off, are dispirited by the attitude of the leadership. We need leaders who will stop calling outright lies ‘misleading’, as John Kerry did. We need people who will lead us back from the precipice we’re staring at, but our way back to normalcy is barred by the actions of this cabal. The global villagers need to know that we have taken care of matters before they’ll show recognition and respest to this country again. So, why has impeachment a non-issue with the Dem leadership? Is it that some of them will be dragged down by their complicity? We desperately need statesmen and stateswomen with integrity and strength of conviction, in places of power.
October 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pmSharon,
Republican or Democrat - It’s just different shades of beige. All owned by Corporate America and unable to do what they were “elected” (appointed, really) to do.
I think there will need to be another Anerican Revolution. Because my money says that in 12 years, we’ll be having the same conversations about corruption in Washington… just about the Dems. It was what happened in 1994.
October 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pmGood luck with the high speed Marie, not able to get it here….I tried several providers and so far earthlink is the best for me. No junk and great service. Am going to be on snail mail dial up forever, can’t afford any more right now even if it was available..TP was all the problem’s I had, not my computer or provider…….Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 3:12 pmdeath valley days - straight ahead!
October 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pmWe dropped bombs from the air, cuise missile from the sea, on a country that couldn’t fight back, blowing their women and children to bits.
Stripped iragi men naked AND PARADED THEM IN IN THE STREETS in front of their fellow citizens.
Gang Raped their young women and piled naked men up in prison using the most sadistic sexual acts the world has ever seen.
Killed over 600,000 of them. Sometime using illegal chemicals melting their flesh. At times, acting as if its a turkey shoot.
Sent in our war profiteers (halliburtons) to take over all profit.
Now we tell them “its your responsiblity to fix it”.
The real problem, which i learned a long time ago, to respect your enemy, even if you don’t like them.
Not even this applys in this case. Iragis were not our enemy, they did absolutely nothing to us. ahhh, we were so superior, so macho, so arrogant. Its going to end as i suspected before we invaded. A quagmire.
This administration, these neo-cons, these right wing racist beast. I can still smell the sulfur.
October 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pmlugnut,
We didn’t do those things. The Bush Regime did. No more America victimization to fix the Iraqi situation.
Besides, you want the people who made this mess to clean it up? Sorry, but that is like letting a child molestor give therapy to his victims…
The best thing we can give Iraq is our departure.
Bush Co is not capable of fixing anything.
October 28th, 2006 at 3:25 pmyea… the dems in 94… pretty awful… it took them 12 years to build up to the white house post office scandal (or whatever it was), which ended up being the worst thing the repugs could come up with as corruption and rode on to power and to clean up the government…
October 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pmit’s frightening the crimes and misdeeds racked up by these neoCONS in just 6 years… there’s no comparison, really…
.
“secure the oil fields”
That’s it. The main issue.
#49 unbelievable
Iraq has oil fields… Use the oil to rebuild Iraq
The American people are victims in this mess too.
Use Iraqi oil revenues to rebuild Iraq that US destroyed - why Iraqi oil?
I suppose it’s not customary for the victim to pay for damage done by attacker? Or is the concept of right and wrong forgotten among the American public, thanks to your lying administration? War is peace etc?
Don’t American oil companies have any money anymore?
Just get your troops out of Iraq, and for starters, give Iraqi people back their 20 billion dollars (the money from Development Fund for Iraq). If that’s not enough to rebuild the country, give them more money until the job is done.
I disagree - Americans aren’t victims. You had the chance to choose someone else than Bush in 2000. You had the chance to change things in 2004. You blew it both times and Iraqi people paid for it, and still pay with blood. At least 650000 dead Iraqi so far because Bush administration wanted the Iraqi oil.
October 28th, 2006 at 3:43 pmSorry in one of my post’s forgot the 1,500 that died from Katrina and the 1,000 that were killed in Lebanon….Baby steps would be to stop the war’s first, bring all the troop’s home from all over the world…Start our own nation building and funnell money to the countries we distroyed….Tell every other country on the planet to take care of their own problem’s and get some good diplomats that know Peace can work..War is not the answer it is the problem..If we need their oil then we should buy it or do with out….Blessings
October 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pmI have to agree with you again Unbelievable, most of the dem’s are just a lighter shade of pale when comparing to the evil rep’s…Enabeling is just as bad as being an evil doer…Blessings…Outta here for awhile..Peace
October 28th, 2006 at 3:57 pmWhen the Iraqis stand up, American troops will stand down. I don’t see what is so hard to understand about that. We must stay the course.
October 28th, 2006 at 3:59 pmTop commanders should recommend leaving all of Iraq..not just Badgdad…
October 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pmMilitary commanders should recommend leaving all of Iraq…not just Badgdad
October 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pm# 15 Fuc* the geopolitics! It’s time to get serious about another way to fuel our voracious needs. If we have to steal and kill to maintain our “way of lifeâ€, then that way of life needs to change.
Comment by Jay
One of the best comments ever. Thanks.
October 28th, 2006 at 4:44 pmBesides, you want the people who made this mess to clean it up? Sorry, but that is like letting a child molestor give therapy to his victims…
The best thing we can give Iraq is our departure.
Comment by unbelievable
I disagree, UnB. War crimes have to be repaired fully by the criminals. Thats what Nuremberg was, thats why Pinochett´s justice process must be continued, thats why some day Europe should be giving back all the things they plundered from Africa and Asia… and so on. It is just not enought to get out.
October 28th, 2006 at 4:54 pmI think all of the thoughtful, engaged masses of the world should relentlessly beat the drum calling for a war crimes trial. If enough people continuously and tenaciously demand that these sick neocons be tried for their crimes in a global forum like The Hague . . . eventually the world’s major media will begin to pay attention and finally, even the lapdog US press will be forced to cover the possibility of such a trial. Perhaps then an honest evaluation of the whole Iraq War marketing process by BushCo, Inc. will lead to a realization and, eventually, to a life term at hard labor for all of the neocon nutballs who engaged in this alleged conspiracy!
This is an honest twist on the Republican playbook. They get their drooling sheep to repeat their false (or half true) talking points over and over and over again until they become truth in the minds of the easily-fooled evangelicals and the Hannity/O’Reilly/Rush ditto-spanks.
October 28th, 2006 at 5:28 pmApparently the general has come upon a Gladiator Solution. Ring the area and let the car bombers, death squads and government forces have at. Baghdad is supposed to be one giant Coliseum. Tough on civlians but perhaps the only viable military strategy. Certiainly those fleeing Baghdad best be proctected
October 28th, 2006 at 5:44 pmMany sentiments here reflect worry about pulling out and leaving Iraq to ‘terrorists’ (something that would not have happened without our brilliant intervention…anyway)
Well there is one difference between Iraq and Vietnam - if we pull out or withdraw to camps or region we can return or strike enemies anytime. Something that was not possible in Vietnam. In Iraq it could be very very effective.
Also readng through state of denial, isn;t it time we let the generals run the war? I dot remember the last time a stupid ideology (and neocon is about as stupid as you can get) won a war, you need generals…….and they need to run the show…you can stick your stupid politics in alter IF YOU HAVE TO….
Idiot admininstration…just a while ago in Nth CArolina Bush was screaming We will have Victory!’ to some troops, the whole speech was same ol same old……..sad if it werent so tragic.
October 28th, 2006 at 6:06 pmthat’s right. get them out of Baghdad and into their fourteen massive, complex, self-supporting bases out in the desert and let Baghdad meltdown but good.
It’s called annexation by default. Whoever is left when the killing stops will be the worst shots.
Iraq will be yours.
Get the hell out of Iraq - let alone Baghdad.
October 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pmPaul Wolfowitz and Richar Perle….don’t forget these 2 geniuses, geniui,
send them to Iraq and let the Iraqis put them on trial like Saddam
Wait a minute Ive just had a brilliant idea! Instead of INternational Crim Court, why dont we hand over Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolf, Perle, to the Iraqis and let them put them to trial !!!!!!!!! Like Sadam!!!!!!
These men have murdered more Iraqis than Saddam ever did……
Let’s start an extradition petition and write to the Iraqi ‘government’ and put the idea in their heads!!!!!!
Time for a celebratory coffee….my work here is done
October 28th, 2006 at 6:17 pmThere should be an Iraq Tax on the top 1 percent of the wealthiest in America who have benefited from the Bush administration’s insane “tax cuts for the rich in the time of war” policy.
In other words, for every dollar spent by U.S. taxpayers on the Bush war in Iraq, the wealthiest 1 percent have to pay two dollars back into the U.S. treasury. Furthermore, the oil companies executives who’ve made a killing off the Iraq war should pay three dollars for every dollar they’ve “earned” since Bush invaded Iraq.
Hey, they can afford it. And all the profit they’ve made is “blood” profit, with the blood of both our brave soldiers and Iraq citizens dripping from their ill-gotten gain.
October 28th, 2006 at 6:21 pmThe whole point of this excersize is to prevent Iragi oil from flowing to the world market. This props up those oil sources that the administration has control of, until such time as they have control of the oil if Iraq. Given that oil and moneyare the only goals and none of the smokescreen goals of democracy, protection of the American public, stabilization of the region, the spread of fundamentalist Christianity or any other bones thrown to one group or lie of another, then we will stay as long as the present allows them to stay.
October 28th, 2006 at 6:44 pmWhen we withdraw, it will be the same gut wrenching murder and mayhem of the fall of Saigon. The helicopters shoved off the decks of the carriers, will probably be just as full of cash and white gold, heroin,as those out of Vietnam. We the people willo have to wallow in all the self doubt and questioning of what went wrong as we did after Vietnam. Even W hisself said this was Vietnam all over again, without so much as a whimper from the right. And we the people will be left holding the bag, the empty bag full of IOU’s, dead and maimed american soldiers and the ghosts of over a half million Iragis.
@Skypilot707
Impressive….
October 28th, 2006 at 7:05 pmTop U.S. Military Officer Recommends ‘We Remove All Troops From Baghdad’
Sounds very similar to Fallujah. Withdraw all troops, then attack and decimate the city. All the citizens who remained in the city were Insurgents/terroists.
October 28th, 2006 at 7:21 pmTime to remove all the troops from Iraq, not just Baghdad > PERIOD.
October 28th, 2006 at 8:09 pmThere may be something positive behind the suggestion. But as in any war where the US leaves in the face of adversity (as when MacArthur left the Philippines and when the US left Vietnam), those who are left behind have to find some way to not pay a price for their cooperation with the Americans.
If Maliki kicks the US out, then he stands a chance of being deemed a hero in his country. But what are the odds if Iraq falls into unqualified civil war? Some of our best friends over there will face difficult times ahead.
October 28th, 2006 at 9:44 pmsecure the oil fields
Yep, that sums up the Cheney/Bush stratergery from the beginning of the invasion. Leaving Baghdad now makes sense because we don’t need to secure the Ministry of Oil building anymore.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:07 amNewsweek is swiftboating the Generals in this months issue. Go to their site and give them hell - BUSH DIDN’T LISTEN TO HIS GENERALS.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/ discuss/ duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×2502968
MASSACRE IN OAXACA: Indymedia Video Journalist Killed
Right now, in this very moment, state policemen dressed
in civil clothes are attacking the barricades maintained
by the Oaxacan people and their teachers.
Okay, YOU CAN DO THIS:
1) Email the American Embassy in Mexico City.
embeuamx@state.gov
Our so called Ambassador is Antonio Garza. He is a Bush TX crony. Please let him know
the world is watching Oaxaca and on his watch.
2) Email the Red Cross.
martinc@usa.redcross.org
This is the email address for MEDIA with questions for the CEO. If they get enough mail,
they will have to respond.
Ask the RC if it is true that they are under orders not to help wounded strikers. Or, whatever
better question you come up with. ASK THEM A QUESTION — don’t just go off on them,
please.
3) Email or call the news desk at the biggest paper in your area. Ask them WHO is covering
this. WHO not IF. http://www.cnn.com/feedback/
EDIT: PLEASE USE ‘MASSACRE IN OAXACA’ in your Subj line.I hope BBC news will report. Nope, they don’t want anybody getting ideas. LOL When real democracy is stolen, it goes without any televising.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:26 amwapo wrote long ago repeatedly about the way poppy bush the elder betrayed the iraqis who cooperated in the first gulf war for oil by abandoning them.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:33 am[…] Columnist Mark Shields had this to say on the New Hour with Jim Lehrer. […]
October 29th, 2006 at 2:37 amThe highest ranking or certainly one of the highest ranking men?
That is the recommendation of probably one of the most — probably the most respected man in uniform today?
He made it to the civilian leadership of the United States?
If Shields’ report is true…?
Can’t TP do better than this?
October 29th, 2006 at 2:46 amHave video of Shields comments contained within a 1 minute mashup here.
October 29th, 2006 at 6:27 amBill Maher tells it the best way.
Our intention was good: to penetrate Iraq and bring it to a glorious, euphoric climax. But it’s clear now that’s just not going to happen. And yet we’re still pounding away.
Causing the whole area to become painfully inflamed. And in that situation, the kindest thing you can do is…just pull out.
http://www.hbo.com/ billmaher/ new_rules/ 20061020.html
October 29th, 2006 at 7:33 amI disagree, UnB. War crimes have to be repaired fully by the criminals.
I advocate exactly that. The Bush Regime, and not the American people are the criminals. Hold Bush Co liable. Make him and his cohorts finacially accountable. They have the money.
Don’t forget, they are robbing us while they destoy Iraq.
thats why some day Europe should be giving back all the things they plundered from Africa and Asia… and so on. It is just not enought to get out.
Comment by Juan+C — October 28, 2006 @ 4:54 pm
Nice in theory, but in reality, I wouldn’t expect it to happen…
October 29th, 2006 at 10:45 amSharron Cox;
I have to do some more research, but in the interim, I respectfully disagree with one of your comments in regard Colin Powell. I specifically remember reading an article/news release that before Powell went before the United Nations and delivered that speech claiming the US had irrefutable evidence and intelligence that Iraq had WMD’s - on several occasions before the UN meeting, Powell questioned the intelligence, asking many times if they were sure - and each time he was reassured the intelligence was correct.
Think back on how relations soured between Bush/Cheney and Rumsfeld after Powell learned that he had been duped - and was ultimately fired; he did not willfully resign from his position, but was fired by the Bush administration. Colin Powell constantly challenged and disagreed with the administration’s foreign policy and subsequent handling of Iraq, and the tension that was building between Powell and the Bush administration has been mentioned several times even in the MSM - and most people “in the know” believe that Bush appointed him as Secretary of State because of his popularity with the American people - and the respect he commanded from those that truly knew him.
I still believe that Powell was duped by the Bush cabal of Neo-conservatives, and they fired him because he wasn’t another Condi Rice or others within the administration that went along with Bush no matter if the action was right or wrong. He constantly disagreed with the President and had the guts to do so - something we see very little of in Washington these days…
These are the most perilous times this nation has witnessed since the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we don’t need “just a President” because he/she is able to win an election, but one that has the military experience and expertise Powell possesses, plus being a proven diplomat. This is probably a moot argument, as Powell is disillusioned with the politics and corruption in Washington - but even considering that, he is a patriot and one that has spent most of his adult career serving this country.
Because of that, I believe if he was approached in the correct manner, emphasizing the need for his skill-set and diversity of knowledge, under the right circumstances he could be talked into a Presidential run; I feel sure he would object and say no at first, however with enough pressure and appealing to his patriotism, I believe that he would accept the responsibility knowing that in his heart, especially in these crucial times, it would be in the best interests and possibly the best hope for the United States to successfully maneuver ourselves out of harms way - and if military action should be needed, we would know that it was a necessity and not a “war for profit” or a war that was political in nature rather than one of necessity.
Or, in the alternative, he would also make an excellent Vice-President, and would enhance the chances of a Democrat or viable Independent candidate that ran for office. Think of the alternatives, and look at what we have to choose from in 08 - considering the multiple fronts where crisis looms around the corner and the world becomes more hostile to America. What candidate from either party has the expertise to bring us through these troubled times in either party? I can’t think of one candidate that is better suited and qualified for the Presidency, and just because someone is “electable” doesn’t qualify them for the office, and after the Mid-terms the 08 Presidential elections will be crucial to our survival as a nation.
Bush and Co. have dug us into a huge hole, and with that in mind, for the 08 elections it is vital that we choose a President that has more of the qualities that suit these dangerous times -and candidates that fit that description are rare and almost non-existent.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:47 amThere should be an Iraq Tax on the top 1 percent of the wealthiest in America who have benefited from the Bush administration’s insane “tax cuts for the rich in the time of war†policy.
Comment by The Oracle — October 28, 2006 @ 6:21 pm
That would be nice. I just think it won’t happen, because those are the people who own our politicians who would create such a tax…
If Nancy Pelosi won’t seek to impeach Bush, I can’t imagine she’ll seek to tax him either. The Dems are just the other side of the same gold coin. I don’t trust them to do what’s right either.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:51 amkaty:
I am back.
unbelievable
You say, “Why take from the poor and indigent?”
and
“Use the [Iraqi] oil to rebuild Iraq.”
Is there a contradiction in these two positions. Compared to Americans right now Iraqis are the poor and indegent group.
Besides, this was the stance Bush used to cojole Americans into supporting the war. In effect he was saying you can get away with theft and murder at no cost to you and the booty is all yours (he ment his). It seems to me this is an underlying unspoken part of the American People’s logic for supporting Bushco. It is an ugly skeleton in your close. I think the disposition of the Iraqi’s oil and the money from it should be left up to the Iraqi People to decide. America has no moral authority going there.
unbelievable
“Let Haliburton step up and pay for this mess.”
I support the spirit of what you say here but I would go further. I would call for the dismantelling of all Bushco holdings and have them all given to the USA. The American People can then decide how to distribute them. Some of the money may go to Iraq and some to New Orleans, some to the wounded service men, and some to the poor and indegent.
But I hold to my original idea that you seem to be refuting. America must take responsibility for the destruction of Iraq and pay reparations. It is like other American problems such as the number of people in America’s prisons, the lower economic standing of Blacks, Native Americans, and Hispanics in American society. Turning your gaze somewhere else does not make it go away.
Let me reassure you that I do not think carrying around a big cross of guilt on your back helps one bit. I am just calling for a generous and workable approach to the common humanity of us all.
Sharon Cox
I don’t believe or not believe that Bushco will have their comeuppance but I do believe that you and yours have the power to chase them to the ends of the earth in trying to make it happen.
I would encourage people to make a commitment to make the scoundrels pay.
October 29th, 2006 at 11:15 amWell you people seem to be getting down to work. It is time for me to go to bed now. I’m on China time.
“Unbelievable” we will all work together on the solutions. Good posts.
October 29th, 2006 at 11:27 amUse Iraqi oil revenues to rebuild Iraq that US destroyed - why Iraqi oil?
Why food from the mouths of hungry Americans who had nothing to do with what BushCo started?
Because, the oil is a bonus. It’s not taking money from people who are broke and had nothing to do with the destruction. The oil, if used properly, would go to fix what Bush destroyed without taking away from anyone - Iraqi or American.
I suppose it’s not customary for the victim to pay for damage done by attacker?
295 million Americans didn’t attack anyone.
Or is the concept of right and wrong forgotten among the American public, thanks to your lying administration? War is peace etc?
Don’t be such an absolutist. You sound like the neocons who paint all Americans with one brush and hold innocent people accountable for the actions of a craven few.
I said that Bush and his henchmen should pay to rebuild Iraq. I didn’t excuse them, so stop acting like I did. I said that why should people who are broke have to reach further in tehir pockets to pay for BushCo’s actions when we opposed them?
Don’t American oil companies have any money anymore?
You’d have better luck getting blood from a turnip.
Just get your troops out of Iraq, and for starters, give Iraqi people back their 20 billion dollars (the money from Development Fund for Iraq). If that’s not enough to rebuild the country, give them more money until the job is done.
Apparently, the Bush Regime doesn’t listen to me. I was AGAINST the troops going there to begin with.
I disagree - Americans aren’t victims. You had the chance to choose someone else than Bush in 2000. You had the chance to change things in 2004. You blew it both times and Iraqi people paid for it, and still pay with blood. At least 650000 dead Iraqi so far because Bush administration wanted the Iraqi oil.
Comment by Grustnij — October 28, 2006 @ 3:43 pm
Of course we are victims. Especially those of us who voted against the man, oppose the war, and have been active in protesting the war.
We didn’t do this - Bush did. Hold him accountable. Stop supporting him. By your argument, your countries who participated are just as liable as ours. Stop pushing this off on just us. You step up and assume the level of accountability you expect from others. Or can you?
October 29th, 2006 at 11:35 amI have to agree with you again Unbelievable, most of the dem’s are just a lighter shade of pale when comparing to the evil rep’s…Enabeling is just as bad as being an evil doer…Blessings…Outta here for awhile..Peace
Comment by Sharon Cox — October 28, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
This past week, I was off from school, so I spent the time trying to catch up. I also put together a presentation on Neoclassical-Greek Revival Architecture, using American iconic structures - The Capital Building, Statue of Liberty’s base, Jefferson Memorial, etc.
In doing my research, I am certain that Bush is the exact opposite of any of the Founding Fathers - Washington led his troops in battle, Jefferson was a brilliant creator not destroyer, Adams and Franklin were about strong foreign relations, and Paine was a strong advocate for a government that was ruled by the people instead of the other way around.
Bush has violated every one of those noble men’s philosophies about this country, as well as their intentions and efforts and hopes. Such a shame. I cannot wait for the day he is no longer holding that office prisoner to his unethical actions.
October 29th, 2006 at 11:42 amFrom the Princess Bride
Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That’s what’s so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia . . .
October 29th, 2006 at 4:26 pmDoes anyone out there remember Stanly Kubrick’s classic horror flick “The Shining”? If so, do you remember the scene where Jack Nicholson embraced and kissed the naked and very beautiful young lady with sex on his mind, only to see, on getting a better look at her, that she was an horribly ugly, ancient, and nauseating repulsive old lady? Doesn’t this scene remind you of the 37% of American voters that are still enamored with King George the Turd and Shotgun Cheney?
October 29th, 2006 at 5:14 pmI am sick to my stomach tonight. Without a dought if this info does not get to the mediaby tomorrow then we know there is with holding of information to the public. This should be on the cover of every newspaper.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:20 pmI am sick to my stomach tonight. Without a dought if this info does not get to the media by tomorrow then we know there is with holding of information to the public. This should be on the cover of every newspaper.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:21 pmI agree with you, May. I emailed and wrote countless times to the media to cover the massive Election Fraud in 2004 as reported day by day by The Green Party Recount site and the report that Rep. John Conyers did of the HEaring he did in Ohio but the news is getting out despite the corporately owned media on the Revolt of the Generals.
October 30th, 2006 at 2:17 amI find it incredible that people think “we didn’t do those things”. In a republic, “we” elected our leader–or, if we didn’t and the election was a sham—we still supported that leadership for 6 years and did nothing to reign him in. Of course “we” did it and as the nation responsible for Gitmo, pre-emptive warfare, changing the rules the whole way to placate our fearless , foolish leader we are most certainly responsible.
Our Constitution, if we care about it at all, provides the forms of redress. The first obligation is to vote. And if the vote is considered suspect, we take it to our LOCAL officials and push all the way back to the top at the state and federal levels. And in the course of that, we call for impeachment. The States can call for action. It only takes two to call for impeachment.
But what we do not have the right to do is shirt responsibility for the foolhardy way we have allowed our country to be run. This president was ENABLED by people who tacitly agreed the whole way. I have and always will reserve my anger for those moderates –the moderate Christians who were cowed too much to speak out against their fundamentalist bretheren and the moderate Republicans and Democrats who somehow thought it was okay to be a “values voter” and hide behind a “conservative” label to avoid being held to a higher standard. Bastards all.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:44 amIt is beyond me how so many can be fooled day after day
October 30th, 2006 at 10:59 amby Bush and his gang. I have friends that call themselves
Christians and conservatives but I often doubt their brainpower
in this area when they continually hide their heads in the sand
and cannot discern good from evil. This administration is
to use the term, ‘wolves in sheeps clothing”.To convince people
how good they are, all they have to do is use the “anti abortion”
and “anti gay marriage” slogans and Bush and gang can convince
many they are “good”. This is one of the most evil administrations
to come along in many years.
[…] When top military commanders start to get pissed off at the administration. This first quote shows me that the Gen’s are setting the stage, via ThinkProgress: Last night on the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, columnist Mark Shields revealed that one of the “highest ranking men†in the military has recommended removing all U.S. troops from Baghdad. Here’s the key excerpt: “The highest ranking or certainly one of the highest ranking men in the United States military today has recommended that we remove all troops from Baghdad, all American troops from Baghdad…All of the troops out of Baghdad, secure the road to the airport, secure the oil fields and the borders, and say that the pacification and the maintaining of order in Baghdad is the responsibility of the Iraqis. That is the recommendation of probably one of the most — probably the most respected man in uniform today.” […]
October 30th, 2006 at 12:39 pmsecure the airport, the road to the airport, the borders and the oilfields.
That’s what it’s all about please see this story - ‘Stability First’ - The Rape of Iraq http://www.atimes.com/ atimes/ Middle_East/ HJ27Ak03.html
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