Fox Responds To Limbaugh Claim That He’s ‘Cruel’ For Creating ‘False Hopes’ About Stem Cells
Fox Responds To Limbaugh Claim That He’s ‘Cruel’ For Creating ‘False Hopes’ About Stem Cells
Last week, Rush Limbaugh called Michael J. Fox “cruel” for giving people “false hope” that stem cell research will lead to medical breakthroughs:
When you start telling them there’s a cure around the corner if only somebody gets elected, you are misleading them. You are creating a false hope scenario and that is cruel.
Today on ABC, Fox responded, “What is crueler? To not have hope or to have hope?” He pointed out that “it’s not false hope, it’s a very informed hope. I mean, it’s hope that’s informed by the opinion of our leading scientists, almost to the point of unanimity” that embryonic stem cell research offers tremendous potential for treating and and even curing a wide range of diseases and injuries. (Read a list HERE.) Watch it:
Full transcript:
STEPHANOPOULOS: We stopped for a moment because Michael was getting warm.
FOX: I’m just about to hit a pocket. This is good.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But after a short break his medication kicked in. (To Fox:) You’re just saying you were about to hit a pocked.
FOX: I just hit a nice pocked. I should be calm for a sec. It’s kind of like surfing. You wait for a wave and I just hit a nice wave.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I don’t want to rile you up but I want to bring up Rush Limbaugh one more time.
FOX: (Laughing) There he goes!
STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the thing he says when you’re talking about all these cures you’re giving people false hope.
LIMBAUGH (tape): When you start telling them there’s a cure around the corner if only somebody gets elected, you are misleading them. You are creating a false hope scenario and that is cruel.
FOX: What is crueler? To not have hope or to have hope? And it’s not false hope, it’s a very informed hope. I mean, it’s hope that’s informed by the opinion of our leading scientists, almost to the point of unanimity, that embryonic stem cells, because [inaudible], because they have the capacity to be anything are truly — you know, will it be a straight path to victory? Probably not, probably you’ll have stutter step along the way. In fact, they just did some work where they found it relieved the symptoms of Parkinson’s in one test, but there was residue, some tissue residue that built up, which is not ideal. But two steps forward, one step back, you know, it’s a process. It’s how this country was built. It’s what we do. I don’t want to get too corny about it, but isn’t that what the person in the harbor with the thing (referring to the Statue of Liberty) — it’s about hope and so to characterize hope as some kind of malady or some kind of flaw of character or national weakness is to me really counter to what this country is about.
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Knowing Rush is so popular and that he makes fun of people with Parkinson’s makes me feel hopeless.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:35 pm-could Rust be a Taoist scholar of Lao Tsu? thinking more or less,”Do nothing and all is done” NAAAAAAaaa he’s just stupid
October 29th, 2006 at 12:38 pmLimnuts is an idiot. I don’t know how you can spew the type of hatred he does on the radio. It’s amazing.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:46 pmHey Rush are not the US troops in Iraq false hope? Are not Bush and his rubber stampers false hope for his lunatic base of believers. Isn’t the idea that a 20 year drunk be a good president, false hope.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:49 pmgeorge s. stated at the end of this interview that limpball was invited, they would even go to him, but he “declined”…
imagine that…
October 29th, 2006 at 12:51 pmStem cell research is just another example of the government sticking it’s nose into something they have no reason too. Sadly because everyone is playing politics with it, nothing worthwhile is getting done.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:02 pmYeah, the hope of advancing medical break-throughs is so much more cruel than the hope of cure through prayer, faith, and other religious beliefs…
At least with medicine, there is someone at the other end to hear the request and actually attempt to help.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:04 pmnothing worthwhile is getting done.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 1:02 pm
I disagree. The government, in this case, has the broad reach of an array of sources (funding, advertizing, organization) to actually do a lot of good that might not happen otherwise. In fact, government money to research facilities in universities is the best hope we usually have in finding break-through cures because the researchers are all about the cure, unlike Corporations that are all about the profit.
Not all government is bad… that would be absolutistic.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:09 pmYeah, the hope of advancing medical break-throughs is so much more cruel than the hope of cure through prayer, faith, and other religious beliefs…
I don’t know Unbelievable, the power of positive thinking does alot for someone. Otherwise Placebo’s wouldn’t work.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:10 pmRush Limpballs wants to be the victim since Michael J. Fox doesn’t.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:12 pmThey say ‘only we can protect you’. Certainty or hope?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:13 pmGood word Michael!
Hope for peace, hope for tolerance and understanding.
Hope for nature, Hope for humanity!
Hey Rush is that like saying Vote republiscum and you’ll be safe But Vote Democrat and you’ll die, the country will die and the world will explode…
Hypocrite
October 29th, 2006 at 1:18 pmI don’t know Unbelievable, the power of positive thinking does alot for someone. Otherwise Placebo’s wouldn’t work.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
I don’t disagree with the power of mind-over-matter in regard to alleviating headaches or menstrual cramps in some folks, but to use belief in supernatural deities as an expected cure, as the Christ Scientists do, is a far larger scam than anything perpetrated by the medical community. That’s my point. That those who think prayer is a cure are creating more false hope than scientific research that has documentation and experience validating it.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:20 pmI don’t know Unbelievable, the power of positive thinking does alot for someone. Otherwise Placebo’s wouldn’t work.
Comment by Tundra
Positive thinking, perhaps.
They also did a study which showed no positive effects from prayer. In fact, those who were told that others were praying for them made them worse
October 29th, 2006 at 1:21 pmThe government, in this case, has the broad reach of an array of sources (funding, advertizing, organization) to actually do a lot of good that might not happen otherwise.
Government assistance always comes with strings and oversight that slow down things way too much. First we have to get the money approved, then play politics with “who” is qualified to do the research. Next reports have to be brought up and explained to a “Commitee” (who have no idea what the researchers are really saying). This Commitee hears what they want to hear and starts partisan politics with it to their constituents. Research needs more money so some politician then decides to get behind more money or cutting funding, based on the size of the money to them (Or what their vote will get the people in their area (Bridge anyone).
Not all government is bad… that would be absolutistic.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:21 pmI never said All government was bad, I just think they should step out of this arena and let the people that know do their thing.
14
They also did a study which showed no positive effects from prayer. In fact, those who were told that others were praying for them made them worse
Source please.
While I am certinally not into organized religions, if someone has a disease that will kill them, and the belief that there is something better awaiting comforts them in their hour of need, so be it. If somehow the feeling that I am praying for them brings them some sense of relief, I’ll pray. I’ll stand by their bed and clasp my hands and cite the prayers I haven’t said since I was in a Catholic School as a kid.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:28 pmGovernment assistance always comes with strings and oversight that slow down things way too much.I never said All government was bad, I just think they should step out of this arena and let the people that know do their thing.
Comment by Tundra
Too bad we can’t just award no-bid, cost-plus research contracts,
October 29th, 2006 at 1:30 pmlike in Iraq. I’m sure Tundra would be OK with that. After all, it’s not like we ever needed consensus on such things. If dems take control, they should take a lesson from the republicans and freeze them out of all discussions on the topic. Fair’s fair.
Tundra:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4681771.stm
October 29th, 2006 at 1:34 pmRush you may want to pick up your jock strap and lick your wounds. You just got called out on the carpet showing your disdain for Hope. America is taking notes.
Rush shows his true colors as he dismisses hope, dismisses the creative Genius that had made this country great. How deliciously hypocritical since hope is all you have been saluting for the past 3+ years in Bush’s Historical Collossal Failure in Iraq.
Rush, you just got OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 29th, 2006 at 1:35 pmIn fact, those who were told that others were praying for them made them worse
Comment by barfly — October 29, 2006 @ 1:21 pm
It would be interesting to know why… Perhaps the stress of feeling that your illness is a burden to others? I mean, since organized monotheistic religions frequently instill feelings of guilt and self-hatred…
October 29th, 2006 at 1:38 pmToo bad we can’t just award no-bid, cost-plus research contracts,
like in Iraq. I’m sure Tundra would be OK with that. After all, it’s not like we ever needed consensus on such things. If dems take control, they should take a lesson from the republicans and freeze them out of all discussions on the topic. Fair’s fair.
*Yawn*
The old call me a Republican (Which I am not) and bring up stupid things this administration does as a rebuttal. Umm I don’t support this administration sport. I personally don’t want Bush/Feingold/Clinton/Chenney/Pelosi or the rest of the career politicians playing politics with stem cell research.
I fully support Stem Cell research, without the bureaucratic red tape, any time you want the government involved expect to have groups of people opposed to your ideas. Also expect the ones that are “helping” you get things through to expect certain results for themselves. I realize you may believe that the Democrats would in no way play that game and their politicians would simply do the right things always.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:38 pmCAPTION:
“Rush,I’m too nice a guy to call you a big fat idiot”.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:40 pmI saw the interview today and Fox is a strong advocate for SCR.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:41 pmIgnorance is what keeps people from supporting this effort and the politics that exploits ignorance in the populace.
The old call me a Republican (Which I am not) and bring up stupid things this administration does as a rebuttal. Umm I don’t support this administration sport. I personally don’t want Bush/Feingold/Clinton/Chenney/Pelosi or the rest of the career politicians playing politics with stem cell research.
Tundra
Too bad we can’t just award no-bid, cost-plus research contracts,
like in Iraq. I’m sure Tundra would be OK with that. After all, it’s not like we ever needed consensus on such things. If dems take control, they should take a lesson from the republicans and freeze them out of all discussions on the topic. Fair’s fair.
Please point out where I called you a republican. Or apologize.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:42 pmGovernment assistance always comes with strings and oversight that slow down things way too much.
And Corporate America never comes with strings? However, I call them profits and quarterly earnings…
Scientific Research itself is slow. It’s a marriage of caution and accountability that I think should be present in some apects of developing medication. After all, look at all the people who died from a host of new drugs that were rushed to the market.
Research needs more money so some politician then decides to get behind more money or cutting funding, based on the size of the money to them (Or what their vote will get the people in their area (Bridge anyone).
You honestly think Corporate America is more ‘clean’ in regard to politics and money? Seriously, Tundra, you’re way smarter than that.
I never said All government was bad, I just think they should step out of this arena and let the people that know do their thing.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 1:21 pm
The money has to come from somewhere. I trust it from the tax payers (who the government actually is) more than from people looking to make a profit.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:43 pmI haven’t said since I was in a Catholic School as a kid.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
Fine on the death bed where there is nothing to be done – but that wasn’t what we were discussing. We were discussing people who can be or who might be cured… And in that sense, religion is no replacement for medical treatment most of the time. And isn’t ‘most of tehtime’ what we tend to favor?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:46 pm#21 Tundra I have a question for you What does Russ Feingold have anything to do with Stem Cell Reseach? I heard him speak out about the war but I haven’t heard him speak about SCR. I would like to see our great Senator from WI run for President in 2008.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:48 pmI fully support Stem Cell research, without the bureaucratic red tape, any time you want the government involved expect to have groups of people opposed to your ideas.
I was merely pointing out that it would be more effecient to do as we have done in Iraq with no-bid contracts. Since I don’t ever remember you saying anything derogatory about the contract bidding procees in Iraq, was I mistaken that you would find this acceptable?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:49 pmToo bad we can’t just award no-bid, cost-plus research contracts,
like in Iraq. I’m sure Tundra would be OK with that.
Ahhh Symantics of course. Ok what group of people would be OK with awarding no-bid, cost-plus research contracts?
In order for Fair to be Fair, the Dems should freeze the Republicans out because Tundra was OK with that.
I don’t feel like getting into a lengthy discussion about implying things and how words in the English language are used.
If your intent was not to imply that somehow I agree with this administration awarding contracts to Haliburton, then I apologize. This is an honest apology and I must not have fully understood what you were meaning.
If your intent was to somehow imply that I agree with this Administration’s contract process, then I think I deserve the apology.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:53 pmAhhh Symantics of course. Ok what group of people would be OK with awarding no-bid, cost-plus research contracts?
I would! Your point?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:55 pmIn order for Fair to be Fair, the Dems should freeze the Republicans out because Tundra was OK with that.
So now you’re rearranging the words to get the desired context?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:56 pmRush Limpdick is what I flush down the commode after a bowel movement.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:58 pmI trust it from the tax payers (who the government actually is)
Seriously, Unbelievable, you’re way smarter than that.
:)
You honestly think Corporate America is more ‘clean’ in regard to politics and money?
No, but you know their motivation. With politicians you don’t. They will fight something tooth and nail and mysteriously change their mind. They will sell their own people down the river while smiling. At least you know with a corporation, if their is money to be made, that’s the way they will go.
And isn’t ‘most of tehtime’ what we tend to favor?
October 29th, 2006 at 1:58 pmI tend to favor personal choice.
#21 Tundra I have a question for you What does Russ Feingold have anything to do with Stem Cell Reseach?
Absolutly nothing that I know of. I was just putting another politicians name out there. Basically I was saying that politicians do politics, Scientists do research, I prefer for Scientists to handle the Research part.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:00 pmStill waiting for your apology for lying about what I said, Tundra
October 29th, 2006 at 2:00 pmI read through many of these and its like you people do not read nor understand what was said.
even the list posted was misleading as well. This is the most stupid non-issue ever. Just another chance for people to flame and not even understand what they are flaming.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:04 pmBarfly,
Obviously we have a miscommunication going on here.
Please explain to me what the intent of this statement was.
Too bad we can’t just award no-bid, cost-plus research contracts,
like in Iraq. I’m sure Tundra would be OK with that.
Since I don’t ever remember you saying anything derogatory about the contract bidding procees in Iraq, I also haven’t mentioned puppies, fountain drinks or hunting accidents what’s my opinions of those?
was I mistaken that you would find this acceptable? YES!
October 29th, 2006 at 2:04 pmStill waiting for your apology for lying about what I said, Tundra
Comment by barfly — October 29, 2006 @ 2:00 pm
Ummm Scroll UP to 29
October 29th, 2006 at 2:06 pmSeriously, Unbelievable, you’re way smarter than that.
You trust Corporate America over the Government? I don’t. In fact, the problems we now have with our government fully belong to the fact that they are in bed with Corporate America…
No, but you know their motivation.
So you’d be okat with a pedophile babysitter because you know their motivation? Nonsense. You know the government’s motivation as well, so I don’t buy it.
They will sell their own people down the river while smiling. At least you know with a corporation, if their is money to be made, that’s the way they will go.
Corporate America is just as, if not more guilty of this.
I tend to favor personal choice.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 1:58 pm
I’ll agree with you if it is truly personal. Unfortunately, humans being social, it’s rarely either person, or educated…
October 29th, 2006 at 2:10 pmJust another chance for people to flame and not even understand what they are flaming.
Comment by Fox nut — October 29, 2006 @ 2:04 pm
Which is why we are debating non-issues really (nothing of substance to debate about the article) :)
October 29th, 2006 at 2:11 pmTundra says, “At least you know with a corporation, if their is money to be made, that’s the way they will go.”
Yeah, but the flip side of that is that if there isn’t money – BIG money – to be made, it won’t get done. And if there is BIG money to be made, it comes out of the hides of the people who are being “helped” (have you any idea what proprietary medications for chronic diseases COST?) – and if they can’t afford it, it might as well not exist.
Get the profit motive the he!! out of health care!!!
October 29th, 2006 at 2:16 pmTundra, did I actually say what you claimed I said? No. You were attempting to put words in my mouth.
The old call me a Republican (Which I am not)
Did you or did you not say that I called you a republican? Did I call you one? You could “infer” my words to mean many things. But did I say the word republican? I could have meant conservatives – but instead of asking, you inferred my message, and then began re-arranging my posts to get the desired effect.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:19 pmYou trust Corporate America over the Government?
I trust that the money the big guys from Microsoft give for projects are being spent much more efficiently than the money the government spends on those projects. Do I have facts to back it up? No, I do know corporate America well enough to know that you don’t get that big, without good sound processes. I also know a couple things about Bill Gates and I “feel” that he is watching that money and making sure it is used right.
So you’d be okat with a pedophile babysitter because you know their motivation?
Now comeon, I think there are a few things you know about me!
Corporate America is just as, if not more guilty of this. They are both guilty.
I’ll agree with you if it is truly personal.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:22 pmThen let the people that want to believe in God do so. Snicker in your head and follow your choices. Constantly insulting their intelligence doesn’t help to bridge the gap.
My apologies, Tundra. I must have inferred that you would accept no-bid, cost-plus contracts, as you have never objected to them before (unless you can post a refutation) for anything else. I must have inferred that you total lack of criticism for these contracts (before this thread) was a tacit acceptance of them. Forgive me for inferring something you didn’t say. My mistake.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:27 pmI trust that the money the big guys from Microsoft give for projects are being spent much more efficiently than the money the government spends on those projects.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Government is accountable to us; corporate America is accountable to their shareholders.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:28 pmNo, I do know corporate America well enough to know that you don’t get that big, without good sound processes.
Enron did.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:30 pmBarfly,
You choose to make assumptions about me. Then try and turn me into the bad guy. i even offered an apology if you didn’t mean to imply that I was one (Which you still haven’t said “that’s not what I meant to imply”). You cannot even admit you were wrong in associating me with that group.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:30 pmwhen are people in large numbers going to figure out the NeoCon tactic of blaming the other side for exactly what it is accused of? I know people have pointed this out somewhat, but I don’t think people realize how this is truly a specific and powerful tactic. It’s no accident that Rush is using the word cruel……… Limbaugh is accused of being cruel. So he finds a way to call Fox cruel by saying Fox is giving false hope. Of course that’s bull because there is real reason to place hope in embryonic stem cell research…if you’ve read the science that is. So ……..It’s time for people to not fall for this reversal tactic and to be on the look out for it. It’s old.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:32 pmAnd while we’re talking about it, Aurthur Andersen. What sound business practices did they employ?
October 29th, 2006 at 2:32 pmComment by barfly — October 29, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
Thank you!
Honestly I dislike this administration as much as you (Ok well maybe not as much as you, but close).
October 29th, 2006 at 2:32 pmGovernment is accountable to us;
If that was the case we would have been out of Iraq, Ground Zero would be fixed and Katrina would have been a huge deal but handled in a timely manner.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:34 pmThe old call me a Republican (Which I am not)
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
If you’re not a republican then what are you?
October 29th, 2006 at 2:35 pmEnron did.
And while we’re talking about it, Aurthur Andersen. What sound business practices did they employ?
I said Processes not sound practices (huge differences). I am sure they both had some extremely effective processes in place to maximize profit potential. Both of course had horrific business practices.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:38 pmIf that was the case we would have been out of Iraq, Ground Zero would be fixed and Katrina would have been a huge deal but handled in a timely manner.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:34 pm
And that is exactly why we’re about to have a change in those representing us… because they aren’t. I’d love to see you get Exxon-Mobile to let you have a vote on their next CEO.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:39 pmIf that was the case we would have been out of Iraq, Ground Zero would be fixed and Katrina would have been a huge deal but handled in a timely manner.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:34 pm
It looks increasing like they’ll be held accountable on November 7.
Republicans don’t believe in government so you would expect the Iraq debacle, the Ground Zero debacle and the Katrina debacle.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:40 pm41,
Yeah, but the flip side of that is that if there isn’t money – BIG money – to be made, it won’t get done.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:40 pmI work with 3 different volunteer organizations that in my opinion do alot. All 3 of them are tax exempt, but receive nothing from the government. They all help local people and are funded by local donations.
If you’re not a republican then what are you?
Comment by Nat — October 29, 2006 @ 2:35 pm
Middle of the road Libertarian (Before it got filled with Republicans that couldn’t stand what Bush was doing :)
The typical thing to do hear is call me an Anarchist etc. Truth is I believe there is a job for the federal government and jobs for the local governments. Federally we need to allow each area to concentrate on what is acceptable to them. Bible belt, abortion up to them. California, Make a national tofu day. No reason that me in New York State should have to give a penny to anyone in Utah unless I choose to do so.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:44 pmThen let the people that want to believe in God do so. Snicker in your head and follow your choices. Constantly insulting their intelligence doesn’t help to bridge the gap.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
! well said ! wise words to all !!!
October 29th, 2006 at 2:44 pmHi, I’m the paid weekend troll sitting in for Roger_Roger. Pay no attention to the original post. Instead, look at this shiny bauble! Look…it’s shiny!
October 29th, 2006 at 2:46 pmI said Processes not sound practices (huge differences). I am sure they both had some extremely effective processes in place to maximize profit potential. Both of course had horrific business practices.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
Yes, Jeff Skilling came up with ‘Mark to Market Accounting’ Hey lets recognize profits from future earnings!
Any Acct 101 student will say what about ‘Matching Principle’
(Rev and Exp’s recognized in period incurred.)
Enron, The smartest guys in the room!
October 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pmRush Limbaugh is the best campaign any Dem could hope for…thank you Rush, for focusing more attention on this issue.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pmAnd that is exactly why we’re about to have a change in those representing us…
It looks increasing like they’ll be held accountable on November 7.
Won’t break my heart at all.
because they aren’t. I’d love to see you get Exxon-Mobile to let you have a vote on their next CEO.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:51 pmGet a group of people start buying stock, get a bigger group of people, keep buying stock. Bingo.
Some 30% of America thinks the war in the middle east will bring the messiah. The GOP is creating false hopes.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:53 pmMiddle of the road Libertarian (Before it got filled with Republicans that couldn’t stand what Bush was doing :)
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
Libertarian is another name for closet republican.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:54 pm59,
Oh you kill me. Figure out how to do that all by yourself?
The reason we don’t pay attention to the original post is because everyone knows Rush is spouting off crap. MJF is simply allowing it to go to raise more awareness.
Just like RobG stated, Let rush keep going. Unlike many I think the American people are compassionate enough to see the truth.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:55 pm“Then let the people that want to believe in God do so”.
What I love about people who believe in God.
First and foremost they are the staunchest proponents of protecting the environment. They are the original green party. Worshipping every sunday the biospere and trying to protect nature. Bless the tree huggers.
Secondly, they can stand up and shout “I am absolutely no better than any other human being on this planet. what ever gender or race or color”
October 29th, 2006 at 2:55 pmYou really have to admire those people. Thats what makes religion so great!
That’s rich. Limbaugh calling anyone else cruel.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:59 pmLibertarian is another name for closet republican.
Comment by Nat — October 29, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
The Republicans and Democrats are no different. Both feel they know what is best for you because you are to stupid to figure it out for yourself.
What’s the real difference between “We know how best to protect you, we monitor your phone calls, trust us”
And
“We know what’s best for you, if you don’t wear a seatbelt we will ticket you because you aren’t smart enough to figure it out alone?”
October 29th, 2006 at 3:01 pmWhat I like about windbag flat-earthers like Limbaugh, and the whole direction the Republican Party has taken under Bush, is that whether intentionally or not, they’ve completely dispensed with any pretense of modernism and responsibility. They’ve presented the faithful with a stark choice: Join us and turn your back on everything that has made America great, or join the other side. Millions of people are opting for the latter. After November 7, when the conservative movement analyzes what went wrong, scumbags like Limbaugh will be at the top of the list.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:15 pmThe Republicans and Democrats are no different. Both feel they know what is best for you because you are to stupid to figure it out for yourself.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 3:01 pm
If you want to go that far then no matter what your party affiliation you’re not allowed to think for yourself.
We have a two party system and I affiliate myself with Democratic Party because they are closer to my way of thinking than the republican party.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:23 pmIf you want to go that far then no matter what your party affiliation you’re not allowed to think for yourself.
Unless you are a libertarian, which is based on personal Liberty (Granted you cannot take it to the extremes or it’s very bad).
We have a two party system and I affiliate myself with Democratic Party because they are closer to my way of thinking than the republican party.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:29 pmFair enough, and I respect that. Personally I would like to see much more than a two party system. While I throw away my vote unless I see a candidate I really appreciate. It still counts as one of those “third party choices”.
and seat belts really DO save lives…
October 29th, 2006 at 3:30 pmand seat belts really DO save lives
Agreed, and I will always wear one. Anyone who rides in my car wears one. Not because “They have to by law” but because if you are ridding with me I want you to reduce the risk of harm as much as possible.
Perhaps I have something against authority? I think it’s more of something against someone else telling me as an adult what I have to do in a free country.
October 29th, 2006 at 3:38 pmrush isn’t looking so good himself either
October 29th, 2006 at 3:58 pmTundra:
I understand your position regarding governmental intrusion on private lives and for the most part I agree. However, taking this position without reservation can be problematic. There are two areas in which it makes sense for federal governments to be involved (leaving aside the obvious area of Defense); regulation and large projects.
In terms of regulation I want a federal presence in areas of food/drug/environmental safety. Would I trust food and drug companies to maintain the safety of their own products? And don’t argue that those companies producing unhealthful products will just go out of business (look at tobacco). If a food/drug/product results in long-term harm then it may not be rejected by the consumer in time. We need some kind of “third party” oversight on such safety issues with the money to run long-term tests.
The second area where federal (and local/state) governments should be involved is large-scale projects. These are thinks like infrastructure projects such as roads, street lights, fire and police that are just not feasible for privatization. In our society we need common infrastructure (including legal systems, financial systems, etc) in order for private business to even exist. These areas are obvious candidates for non-private enterprise entities.
However, there are other public health issues that most people would approve turning over to the federal government. These would be things like Stem-cell research that may require a very large amount of capital investment and/or coordination among many private and public health agencies. In addition, with the current patent system in place more and more medical discoveries are being privately controlled and made unavailable to the public.
The danger is giving the federal government the authority to do these kinds of things but keeping them out of other things we don’t want them into; such as domestic spying, controlling moral values, etc.
October 29th, 2006 at 4:00 pmSluggo,
I agree with most of what you have said. As far as Large scale projects go, I have no problem with standards being adopted. I have no problem with a “Rough” government certification process. I do however have a problem with Rochester MN, needing a bridge to get from the city to the suburbs and tax money from Juno Alaska helping to fund that project (Minus obvoius standards/safety checking as you discussed). Whenever that happens we end up in an area where Juno Alaska now feels they are owed something and Rochester MN now has to “Enact some stupid law for the money”. This law may be against what they believe in as a collective but to get their bridge they need it.
Same applies to Stem Cell research to me. I feel there is enough interest and available private donations (Cells from people who donate as well as money) that a “rough” oversight is possible. Asking the federal government to give money from people in the “Bible belt” who are completely opposed to it, just breeds controversy.
Which I feel your last statement said perfectly.
October 29th, 2006 at 4:12 pmUnless you are a libertarian, which is based on personal Liberty (Granted you cannot take it to the extremes or it’s very bad).
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 3:29 pm
What the heck does this mean and how does it dispute what I said?
October 29th, 2006 at 4:30 pmSame applies to Stem Cell research to me. I feel there is enough interest and available private donations (Cells from people who donate as well as money) that a “rough†oversight is possible. Asking the federal government to give money from people in the “Bible belt†who are completely opposed to it, just breeds controversy.
Which I feel your last statement said perfectly.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 4:12 pm
Anything the government funds a certain amount of people will be opposed to it. That’s not a valid excuse to stop the federal funding of stem cell research.
October 29th, 2006 at 4:48 pmPerhaps I have something against authority? I think it’s more of something against someone else telling me as an adult what I have to do in a free country.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
well, i know i do… a rebel from day 1…
but i don’t think about the seat belt law, and others of a similar vein, as being told what to do, so much as participating in public safety…
and i have a slim pocketbook and can’t afford the fines…
also, saw up-close-and-personal a car accident that scared the seatbelt wearing notion into me…
i understand your view, but with age, and dependants, i’ve come to respect and appreciate the efforts of most regulations… notice, i did say “most”… the rest is another story…
October 29th, 2006 at 5:15 pm.
Anything the government funds a certain amount of people will be opposed to it. That’s not a valid excuse to stop the federal funding of stem cell research.
I had a cousin with MS, why not have the Federal funding of that?
Uncle cancer, Federal funding for that?
Sister blind, Federal fundong for that?
Aunt that has never left a bed to to a rare fever as a child, Federal funding for that?
Good friends son has Downs, federal funding for that?
Also I know a guy at work that has a brother that, get this “Has the disease of homosexuality”, federal funding to cure that?
W can go on all day to the person that has Roceia (Whatever that skin disease is that the comercials tell you you can’t live a regular life with).
October 29th, 2006 at 5:17 pmwow… i just came in from an hour of fresh air and vacuuming leaves…
October 29th, 2006 at 5:18 pmthe sun is going down at 4:30… i hate the time change…
tundra – all those things – the research will help them also…
well, except, of course…how ridiculous…no comment…
October 29th, 2006 at 5:23 pmI wad told by the presidents office of ELY LILLY that they DO NOT
October 29th, 2006 at 5:30 pmwant to see a cure for juvenile diabetes. After all “look at all the profits we would not be getting from the sale of Humilog and Humalin. And lets not forget all those test strip and meter manufacturers.
katy,
Vacuuming leaves? WTF?
October 29th, 2006 at 5:33 pmKaty,
i understand your view, but with age, and dependants, i’ve come to respect and appreciate the efforts of most regulations
I am aged and dependented (New word accept it hehe) as well. I just do everything I can for mine and don’t expect others to do it for me. I just get really sick of hearing “where was the government for us, why didn’t someone help us”. Example: “You stayed in an area you were told by the federal and state government to leave”. I live a thousand miles away and heard on the news that the levees would break. I watched the people with kids in hand say “We’re just going to ride it out”.
I watched people stand there with a gun and say “If the government tries to take me from my house I’ll shoot them”. Same people 3 days later “Why doesn’t anyone care about us?” Where is our help?”
You can lead a horse to water, but can’t make them drink.
Same works for government funding, explain, offer suggestions, show results. But expect a gun when you try to tell people what is best for them.
October 29th, 2006 at 5:37 pmkaty,
Vacuuming leaves? WTF?
Comment by Zooey — October 29, 2006 @ 5:33 pm
She has a Hover, accept it :)
October 29th, 2006 at 5:42 pmVacuuming leaves? WTF?
Comment by Zooey — October 29, 2006 @ 5:33 pm
heh! …actually it’s a BARRACUDA – “SUPER BLOWING MULCHER VAC” !
i rake the leaves into a long pile and then suck them up!
October 29th, 2006 at 5:54 pmpour the mulched leaves out and around my flower beds and trees…
i hate leaf burning time… makes my “light asthma” worse…
tundra – i’m not gonna tackle your n.o. argument… been there, done that… except to say that it was probably the most extrordinary example of failure of a government towards it’s citizens on record…
like i said, “most”…
October 29th, 2006 at 6:01 pmShe has a Hover, accept it :)
Comment by Tundra
That sucks.
Heh.
October 29th, 2006 at 6:32 pmAnd limpballs is still on radio. What does that say about about the American media (in the civilized things might be better)?
October 29th, 2006 at 6:56 pmBelieve nothing the msm puts out.
I had a cousin with MS, why not have the Federal funding of that?
Uncle cancer, Federal funding for that?
Sister blind, Federal fundong for that?
Aunt that has never left a bed to to a rare fever as a child, Federal funding for that?
Good friends son has Downs, federal funding for that?
I have no problem funding any of these with federal funds in addition to what the private sector is offering.
Also I know a guy at work that has a brother that, get this “Has the disease of homosexualityâ€, federal funding to cure that?
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 5:17 pm
Just tell him that homosexuality is not a disease. And I would support federal funding to cure his stupidity.
October 29th, 2006 at 7:07 pmOMG, you liberals are deleting my comments!!!! You deleted all my back posts…you fascists bastards.
I have proof, I kept copies of the pages!
Thinkprogress deletes posts that don’t agree with them!
My vogon poetry!!
October 29th, 2006 at 8:06 pmScum like Limbaugh need to take a good long look in a mirror and ask themselves is this what they want for America. I commend Fox for standing up to bullies like Limbaugh and putting them in their place.
October 29th, 2006 at 8:20 pmI trust that the money the big guys from Microsoft give for projects are being spent much more efficiently than the money the government spends on those projects.
Change it to ‘efficient’ now? That’s moving the goal posts. When it comes to medicine, we should be more interested in it working properly, not in saving a few nickles to appease the share holders.
Do I have facts to back it up? No, I do know corporate America well enough to know that you don’t get that big, without good sound processes.
That’s fallacious logic. You know, giving credibilityto higher authorities… You can get that big by being unethical and corrupt. I’ve worked for more incompetent people in Corporate America than I do in government. Something about people wanting power, prestige and money that causes them to abandon morality for it.
Sorry, your argument here falls falt.
I also know a couple things about Bill Gates and I “feel†that he is watching that money and making sure it is used right.
Feel? Seriously Tundra, you think ‘feel’ is a valid argument now?
Bill Gates is an exception. You can’t find one person and use him or her as the benchmark for all others. Did you forget about Enron so soon?
Now comeon, I think there are a few things you know about me!
I thought so, but that was your argument. Just pointing it out.
Then let the people that want to believe in God do so. Snicker in your head and follow your choices. Constantly insulting their intelligence doesn’t help to bridge the gap.
Comment by Tundra — October 29, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
It’s not god-beliefs that are the problem. It’s the nonsense that goes with ‘faith’ that I detest. I detest it, and will continue to point it out because it is dangerous. After all, Bush thinks a god speaks to him, and that that god tells him to wage wars. You think that isn’t dangerous?
Bridge what gap? The gap between those hypocrites wishing us to eternal damnation, forcing their views down our throats, trying to convert the world? That gap?
It has been years of tolerating their hypocritical bigotry against those of us who are non-religious that has allowed them to ruin our country. Be silent? No, I will not. Just as women refused to be silent in the 1920’s… And shame on you for suggesting it.
October 29th, 2006 at 8:21 pmI have proof, I kept copies of the pages!
Thinkprogress deletes posts that don’t agree with them!
My vogon poetry!!
Comment by JohnG — October 29, 2006 @ 8:06 pm
Boo-fricken-hoo…
October 29th, 2006 at 8:23 pmI got news for the religious right…Christianity is a false hope.
October 29th, 2006 at 9:22 pm#68 Tundra, I’m capable of libertarian thought. The seat belt laws and also the helmet laws have bothered me at times, but there is a bit more to it than just “the government not trusting us to be smart enough to use seat belts.”
I figured it out over the helmet law. Why shouldn’t a motorcyclist not wear a helmet? If he (she) wants to take that chance of dying, what’s it to me? Well, taxpayer money pays for massively expensive medical care of people in accidents who don’t have enough medical insurance to cover it. In particular, while it’s not that bad to fix up broken bones, a brain injury can incur huge costs, and sometimes people wind up in comas or in a vegetative state for years.
So if it’s your right to leave off the helmet or seat belt vs. my right not to pay for your stupidity, I can deal with laws.
October 30th, 2006 at 12:02 amThats not always the case. In Texas you can ride without a helmet but you must obtain the proper insurance before you are permitted to ride without a helmet.. The last few motorcycle accidents I have seen are from the stunt riders doing wheelies at a hundred miles an hour down the 4-5 lane interstates falling off. These guys at least are smart enough to wear helmets but doing wheelies at 100 mph…not so much..=)
October 30th, 2006 at 6:48 amWhen you start telling them there’s a cure around the corner if only somebody gets elected, you are misleading them. You are creating a false hope scenario and that is cruel.
Almost as cruel as telling people the war in Iraq can be won.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:15 amKnowing Rush is so popular and that he makes fun of people with Parkinson’s makes me feel hopeless.
Comment by Jeff — October 29, 2006 @ 12:35 pm
Knowing that Fox’s plea for support on stem cells wasn’t an issue worthy of attention here until a Rush Limbaugh angle emerged should probably compound that feeling.
Rush Limbaugh is the story even here. Fox and stem cells are just another prop for him on Thinkprogress as you tell by a brief search on his name here.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:42 amLet me sum it all up for you. Even if the federal govt. funded embryonic stem cell research to the tune of $10 billion (a month or so in Iraq)…and even if after 20 years of exhaustive research absolutely no cure or insight resulted…even if we got zero from it…It is (was) the right thing to do. Period.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:50 amI promise to Rush that if he seeks out psychotherapy and completely and fully dedicates himself to the goal of improved mental health he can achieve it. No false hope here. When you’re as mentally ill as Rush is you can only improve.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:54 amscumbaugh must have a ‘crystal ball’ and he knows the future.. I wonder if he thinks ‘amputees’ are faking it?…..You’ll notice he NEVER debates anyone who can talk back or question his DIVINE vile mouth.
October 30th, 2006 at 9:47 amI think we may be missing something here. If we set up fertility clinics in Iraq and shipped any unused frozen embroyos over here for research, I’m sure we would see a lot less resistance from the neocons like Rush on this issue. We must remember the “culture of life” crowd’s morals about the value of human life only extend to Americans and that killing 100 Iraqi civilians for every 1 terrorist over there is worth it because it will save American lives in the long run.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:40 am97,
So if it’s your right to leave off the helmet or seat belt vs. my right not to pay for your stupidity, I can deal with laws.
Maybe we should have the government make us the healthiest diet available and make a law that we all eat it. That way the obesity problem can be solved and I don’t have to pay for anyone eating junk food. Also how about a mandatory exercise session daily for everyone. If you don’t exercise we can ticket you?
October 30th, 2006 at 10:52 amThinkprogress deletes posts that don’t agree with them!
My vogon poetry!!
Comment by JohnG — October 29, 2006 @ 8:06 pm
Good to know, guess they forget to delete mine. Oooh or maybe I am secretly a plant by TP to get the hitcount up, huh, huh??
Then they have more people hitting the site, and can charge higher revenue for the advertising hmmm. Those Corporate weasels at TP just using you all.
ummm, OK I am better now hehe
October 30th, 2006 at 11:07 amMichael J Fox is a disgrace. The idea that democrats will unlock the doors to cures by funding embryonic stem cell research is a joke. Private research into ESC has produced NOTHING. Adult stem cell research has produced results with 72 diseases.
He implies in these ads that republicans are holding cures just out of reach of those suffering with these horrible diseases while democrats will hand them the cure on a silver platter. He claims he isn’t about politics but then makes these ads for candidates rather than his cause.
He makes me sick.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:29 pmHe claims he isn’t about politics but then makes these ads for candidates rather than his cause.
Comment by Truthdetector — October 30, 2006 @ 3:29 pm
You obviously don’t know what you are talking about.
Michael J Fox has campaigned for Sen Specter.
Fox campaigns for candidates who support embryonic stem cell reasearch. There is very little point in supporting a cause without supporting a candidate too. I thought that was that a no-brainer.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:50 pmGregor obviously didn’t read my whole post. He implies in those ads that republicans are preventeing these cures from being found by their opposition to ESCR. The FACTS are that Embryonic stem cell research is a bust. It has produced no results at all. To try an get a candidate elected based on that assumption is disgusting. Could he not have made a generic ad talking about ESCR and the bill in Missouri? Did he have to make a disease a political issue? He chose to make his condition a political issue and was rightfully called out for this sickening display.
October 30th, 2006 at 4:03 pmComment by Truthdetector — October 30, 2006 @ 4:03 pm
You need new batteries. You’re not detecting anythine even remotely near the truth.
October 30th, 2006 at 4:54 pmNow we know the truth. Mr Fox was used. He never read the bill. He was told it supported Stem Cell research but they never told him about the cloning. And we also find the ad was paid for by a company owned by the Stowers. They pumped $28 Million into advertising and lobbying. If they get the Democrat in and he pushed the bill through their Biotech company stands to make Billion of dollars when the state becomes a safe haven for their company. The bill stops any laws from being passed that prevent their little Frankenstein pursuits.
October 31st, 2006 at 8:38 amHe never read the bill.
Comment by Happy+Guy — October 31, 2006 @ 8:38 am
You’re thinking of the members of Congress…
What a post full of ridiculous nonsense. You should read some books for a change. That television is starting to melt your pea brain.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:14 pm