69 percent:
By on Oct 31st, 2006 at 10:26 am
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folks, it's currently a two-party system... if you don't like what you have now, vote the other way... Democrat, that is...
October 31st, 2006 at 10:32 amI am one of the 69% that want us to make some major changees in Iraq. Those changes should start by adding many more troops and providing them with more funds to win this war. Bush and his friends really screwed this up by not providing enough troops in the first place. Now is the time for change. Add more troops already!!!
October 31st, 2006 at 10:33 amHey Folks!
“Goper’s Lament†The Video is a HIT!
3,345 Unique Downloads Since Friday! Take it down and pass it around in these final days before the election!
http://teocawki.blogspot.com
October 31st, 2006 at 10:34 amMission Accomplished.....stay the course....yawn.......
October 31st, 2006 at 10:40 amKarl, your not smiling off camera,are you....
Roger-Roger that's the dumbest thing I have heard all morning...A thread yesterday proved we aren't even able to feed the troop's there now and many of us are working to put together food baskets....Geeeees. Stop the war, bring all the troops home and impeach all these basterds for christ sake....
October 31st, 2006 at 10:41 amPound on this for the next eight days. This has been the biggest foreign policy blunder in the history of the nation.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:41 amThe founding fathers would probably have tarred and feathered this entire administration if they were alive today.
And that means a change of commander in chief and a change of sec of defense. Rummy and the Dummy.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:43 amWho cares about a CNN poll? That liberal news station probably fixes the results anyway. Watch the highest rated cable news station for real news.
Yes, FOX is highest for a reason. Let the whining commence.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:44 amI love the "just add more troops" rhetoric. Where will these troops come from, John McCain's ass?
I have an equally plausible solution. We get a giant indestructable unicorn who can destroy the insurgents with fairy dust and rainbow wishes. That, or we re-instate the draft, but the former seems more likely than the latter.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:45 am# 5 Sharon I totally agree with you. We need to bring our troops home now. Impeach this Admin.
VOTE THE DEMS IN NOVEMBER 7.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:47 amFOX only has an 11% trust rating...jajajajajaa!
October 31st, 2006 at 10:48 amBy Amit R. Paley
Updated: 2:10 a.m. PT Oct 31, 2006
BAGHDAD - The signs of the militias are everywhere at the Sholeh police station.
Posters celebrating Moqtada al-Sadr, head of the Mahdi Army militia, dot the building's walls. The police chief sometimes remarks that Shiite militias should wipe out all Sunnis. Visitors to this violent neighborhood in the Iraqi capital whisper that nearly all the police officers have split loyalties.
And then one rainy night this month, the Sholeh police set up an ambush and killed Army Cpl. Kenny F. Stanton Jr., a 20-year-old budding journalist, his unit said. At the time, Stanton and other members of the unit had been trailing a group of Sholeh police escorting known Mahdi Army members.
Pound on this for the next seven days! This is what the administrations policies have produced.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:53 amIf this were a private company, they'd all be fired! Let the pink slips flow Nov 7th!
Mary Poplins, I do the absentee balott and mine has already been sent back for the Dem's....We get our's early and I usualy take my time, not this one I sent it back in the next day, early last week...Blessings
October 31st, 2006 at 10:56 amNot only do I want on a "change in course" in Iraq, I want a "change in course" here in the U.S. since BushCo is seeking fundamental assaults on the foundation of our representative democracy.
Iraq is a huge mess and a Democratic majority in Congress would find it extremely difficult to improve. But, this new majority could provide something that has been sorely missing - honest, transparent, thorough intelligence, research, and debate regarding options. We "broke it" and we may not be able to "fix it", but we could get out of the way and let the Iraqis "fix it". People are going to die whether we stay or leave Iraq - and all these deaths are on BushCo.
October 31st, 2006 at 10:57 amSharon, does Island county allow you to audit your vote?
October 31st, 2006 at 11:02 amAsk the county elections office about it!
Those changes should start by adding many more troops and providing them with more funds to win this war.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:03 amComment by Roger_Roger — October 31, 2006 @ 10:33 am
so, you freely admit that we are losing this war. good for you "deux roger". It's a starting point.
But pray tell, how does more American Troops help quell a civil war? And after you've posted your well thought out answer, get your butt in line at the local recruitment office!
As long as we keep letting people that think religion is real run this country, we will continue to get policies that are not based in reality.
Religious people are insane. It's long past time we stopped tiptoeing around it. If you believe in a magic man in the sky, you are insane and have NO business being in a position of power.
Period.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:05 amAnd now to blow Happy Guys Fox theory from the aethersphere;
Besides that Happy Guy, I think Fox today has about only about 1.5 million avg. viewers. Out of a country of 300 million you can see not very many actually watch BORe News.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:06 amWhy does any Dem even vote? I thought you guys already claimed that the Repugs simply steal elections and your voted get miscounted and/or the voting machines are controlled by the Repugs. If you truly believe that, why vote in the first place? Or was this "voting machines are rigged" BS actually just a ploy that was unfounded. Seems like a back track to me.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:07 amGood post PLC, I agree and may I add as long as we are standing up they will not.....It's time to get out and then do the financial help later...They will never stand up at this rate and it will only get more deadly for our troop's..Now we see from a post yesterday our administration isn't even feeding our troops and they must beg for food...I am appaled and livid towards these basterd leaders......If I were in charge I would take all these bloated polaticians and their lippy wives in a huge jet and dump their asses on main street Bagdad....Load up the jet's with all our service personell and tell this administration "you broke it dumbasses, now you fix it"........Blessings
October 31st, 2006 at 11:09 amHave you noticed the big change in reporting the polling numbers? Now we don't hear about the 31% bushco brain-dead loyalists but the numbers reflect the 69% thinking Americans. I still contend that the level of reporting should be raised to 30% to eliminate the noise. That would reflect that 99% of true Americans want us the hell out of Iraq.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:10 amRoger, your ignorance is well-displayed.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:11 amOne simple question to answer at the polls this Nov.:
Do you think America is too weak to defeat terrorists without resorting to torture, giving up rights, and economic disaster? If yes, vote Republican.
However, if you believe America is a strong, honorable country that can be both safe AND free, vote Democratic.
Personally, I'm just not scared enough to vote Republican.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:15 amActually, it looks like the sheeple are turned off by the negative ads so the huge Republican turnout that they're hoping for may not happen. That leaves all of the thinking people who really care about this country and democracy to cast their ballots. And I vote because it makes the trolls all pouty and sad.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:15 am#13 Sharon I am doing the absentee ballot for the first time this midterm election. You don't always know what is on the ballot. I have the ballot now and are looking up the candidates on the internet. Isn't the internet wonderful?. The candidates don't always mail out information on what they stand for. I think I am going to like to get an absentee ballot from now on. I will be sending this back today.
The person we need to get rid of is James Sensenbrenner. This Bryan Kennedy is caughting up to him. I hope the people in my district of Wisconsin will vote for Bryan.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:17 amWhat does it take to make people say the truth.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:19 amThe mistake Bush and his cabal of criminals made was TO INVADE IRAQ AT ALL!
This was a war of choice, not of necessity. It was the wrong war at the wrong time.
It was a war hatched by PNAC and the neo-cons over a decade ago. It's purpose was to gerrymander the region and play empire. It had NOTHING to do with Al Qaeda and the threat of a small bunch of terrorists who had launched an attack on America. It was a pretext.
The invasion of Iraq was based on lies, and thousands of Americans and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Iraqis have DIED as a result. As in shot, tortured, blown to shreds, decapitated, killed, decimated, driven from their homes, forced to live in constant fear and violence.
Iraq is a total failure BECAUSE THE INVASION ITSELF WAS WRONG. It will go down in history as the absolutely worst, most diastrous blunder in our nation's foreign policy. We will be reaping the whirlwind of hatred for America sown by these chickenhearted, chickenshit chickenhawks who launched and have supported this war for DECADES.
All of the pompous pundits who have never known a day in boots on the ground should be put in burlap bags, flown to Baghdad, and dumped on a street corner. They live so far from the reality of the tragedy they have created it absolutely sickens me to hear their pompous, deluded lies anymore.
Our troops must be drawn down, and we leave Iraq, we abandon the BIGGEST U.S. EMBASSY IN THE WORLD, which is under construction, and the many permanent bases that are being built, we apologize to the Iraqi people and the world, and we leave them to sort out their own problems.
You cannot wage rational foreign policy on the "He's a bad man policy". That is what we have seen here. Saddam was a bad man. We had to stop him. News flash: HALF THE COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD are ruled by "bad men".
Why do the GrOPes vote? They think the world is coming to an end and that war and death, chaos, armageddon is a good thing. Wouldn't it be better if the GrOPes went to Iraq and and got involved in creating more chaos than worry about politics? I mean the GrOPes aren't gonna be hear anyway are they? I mean they are gonna fly off into space and so why care anyway? Scorched Earth theory and all that.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:21 amRUCerious, I don't live in Island county, think madashell does...I do live in an ajacent one..Guess I will have to call the auditors office or court house to get that info... Will try to do that today...Where do you live.?
Roger-Roger, once again today you amaze me....We vote for our country rather they are rigged or not.....We must keep voting and standing up untill all this mess is fixed. If enough of the country vote's they are less likely to be able to rigg them for the reich winged nut job's......We are hopeful we can return our country to the way it was and should be...
Ranting Tommy, great post.I agree........Blessings to all and extra blessings to Roger-Roger, he need's them.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:23 amHey Happy Guy you better start thumbing that remote! Jajajaaaa!
October 31st, 2006 at 11:23 amRogerx2 is right - that damned Bush is just too liberal!! We've got to get these liberals out of Washington, and get some real conservatives in there to straighten things out!!
October 31st, 2006 at 11:24 am#8 Tabloid newspapers sell the most for a reason too - that's exactly what FOX News is - tabloid news.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:27 amSharon, I'm in Snohomish, where it's all going by mail for the first time.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:30 amMy ballot is still in my office, I am getting more info on the justices before I vote. I have an appt with the auditor's office for friday morning. They claim I can audit my vote at that time. We'll see. At least they offered!
Tom+baker, if there were any good conservatives left in washington you're statement would be half true.. A good mix of uncorrupt representatives from both sides would be best....Blessings
October 31st, 2006 at 11:34 amSharon, you must be in Kitsap county then...
October 31st, 2006 at 11:34 amyou can call Elections & Voting, (360) 337.7128
to get more info.
Uhh, Sharon, I think Tommy was being sarcastic!
October 31st, 2006 at 11:37 amRanting Tommy
IMO, believing in a god, as I do, is not the negative you suggest. I am very practical, as sane as possible, a strong supporter of scientific truth, and a strong supporter of separation of church and state. I also believe in a spiritual existence that transcends the material world. There are many other religious/spiritual people like me. The problem is those of faith whose secular reasoning and understanding are unsound (as often not, so are their theological understanding and reasoning) and who are in positions of social power. I would ask that you not confuse the two groups.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:38 amWhy does any Dem even vote? I thought you guys already claimed that the Repugs simply steal elections and your voted get miscounted and/or the voting machines are controlled by the Repugs. If you truly believe that, why vote in the first place? Or was this “voting machines are rigged†BS actually just a ploy that was unfounded. Seems like a back track to me.
Comment by Roger_Roger
We vote because it is our right and we have no other recourse...
...at least until the revolution comes.
Or is that what you'd prefer?
October 31st, 2006 at 11:39 am#14, PLC...I must say I am torn sometimes.....More and more I find myself agreeing with you when you right, "we could get out of the way and let the Iraqis “fix itâ€. I agree...This is mostly their mess and they need to clean it up.
#16 Same for you, DRxJ when you ask , how does more American Troops help quell a civil war? ...Agreed. That should not be the role of the US military in Iraq.
However, then I read an article such as the one in last Sunday's Washington Post which reports that outside of Baghdad and some other "hot spots," Iraqis do not want the U.S. troops to leave because they provide security and are doing a terrific job of building and reparing the infrastructure....One Army captain states at the end of the article that the success that his unit is seeing in the village in which he is stationed could be replicated all over Iraq with time and patience....
So, as I said, I am torn....Although I still lean towards redeployment.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:41 amMr. Happy Guy, there are at least four possibilities: you are either ignorant, stupid, both or brainwashed.
If pressed you could not explain why you believe the media is liberal. Exactly what are your reasons for believing it? I am sure you can do no more than offer "other people say so" as a reason. This means that you do not think for yourself, but only follow others who assert they look after your best interest.
Last, you should know that just because something is popular does not mean it is good, right or the best. Ashley Simpson is popular too!
Get it?
October 31st, 2006 at 11:44 am#8 Blissfully Ignorant Guy
Who cares about a CNN poll? That liberal news station probably fixes the results anyway. Watch the highest rated cable news station for real news.
Yes, FOX is highest for a reason. Let the whining commence.
That's right. Fox has the highest ratings. And their viewers are the least well-informed, too. Half of them don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to our government and what it's doing to them. Isn't that great?!
Sadly, though, Fox News' ratings have been dropping. Let the whining commence.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:44 amPLC, I agree that each of us holds his or her spirituality in their own hands.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:44 amTommy, like my big brother, sees the corruption that accompanies the stultification of spirituality by organized religion. This is especially heinous when religion and politics mix, and the pols try to use the religious organizations for political gain.
You rightly point out that separation of church and state is part of our founding credo.
It is just very frustrating for many of us who hold our beliefs closely to see the charlatans from organized religion, dobson et al doing such damage and the immorality of the politicians bush, cheney, rummy using religion as a lever and shield against the people.
Sorry PLC, but that doesn't wash. If you believe in a magic man in the sky, you are, by definition, not grounded in reality.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:49 amRUCerious
I don't think I could begin to describe my disgust for Dobson who, like me, is a psychologist and claims to be a Christian. He gets a "double dose" of my ire.
If our country truly honors the intent of the separation of church and state concept, neither religion nor our democracy is at risk. Accomodation, or more drastically assimilation, can endanger both. Those who seek to make the U.S. a "Christian nation" will undermine both religion and our democracy. Those are the "Christians" who should be challenged.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:52 amI saw letterman on letterman with orielly leterman is uninformed, allowing oreilly to get away with claiming there was a connection between saddam and al qaeda the connection was they were enemies, but that’s besides my point on this post the republicans have a question that the democrats are stumbling with “do you want us to win in Iraqâ€
it’s an absurd question but the democrats don’t know how to answer it and the answer is as follows, I use caps lock to represent indignation where it belongs;
“of COURSE we want to win in Iraq, that is NOT POSSIBLE following the inept decisions of the this administration
these people have made choices that CONTRADICT our generals in the field, the have the NERVE to overrule the sage advice of the finest military minds on the planet and if we want to have ANY hope of “winning†in Iraq we have to STOP allowing the republicans who have NO military clue from making decisions that they are NOT EQUIPPED to makeâ€
now THAT needs to get sent to all progressive candidates and pundits because the new talking point is that question, “do you want to win in Iraq†and then COUNTER attack with;
“what do you mean do I want to win ind Iaaq, the question is do YOU want to win in Iraq?â€
because if you do you have to STOP supporting the polices we KNOW are creating MORE enemies, STOP supporting the clueless policy makers that gice us MORE instability, MORE terrorists, MORE terrorism, and we need these people to START employing the tactics and strategy that will give us successâ€
a very nice follow up would be something along the lines;
“the democrats SOLVE the problems the republicans CAUSED…d, this is DOCUMENTED by the way, by the presidents own investigations
the REPUBLICANS put saddam in power, the REPUBLICANS embraced and endorsed him when he was the MOST brutal, the REPUBLICANS put him BACK on power, the REPUBLICANS gave him weapons of mass destruction
the DEMOCRATS REMOVED THOSE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, he was no longer “running amokâ€, he was absolutely no threat what so ever…thanks to the democratic party and NO thanks to the republicans that PUT THE THREAT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE
period
all facts, proven before the war and proven every day after, and sad for you people that MAKE BELIEVE republicans can protect this country NEARLY as well as the democrats
this proof comes not from liberals or democrats, the proof comes from the presidents own reports, his own agencies, is own aids errr…the DEMOCRATS resolved the problems the republicans CAUSES and they will do it once again
and they should continue with things similar to this;
let me remind you, the REPUBLICANS refused to defend against terrorism when they came to office, the REPUBLICANS waited until we were attacked before they did ANYTHING, EVEN THOUGH they were informed in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS we would be attacked with PRECISE intel HAND DELIVERED, and the republicans REACTED…errr…far too late then the REPUBLICANS diverted the resources NEEDED to fight terrorism
the republicans ACTUALLY invaded a country that posed ABSOLUTELY no threat, the REPUBLICANS attacked Iraq for what came from Afghanistan, they captured SADDAM HUSAIM for what Bin laden did, THEY WERE INFORMED by America’s military their decisions would HARM America and they DIDN’T CAREâ€
that’s the type of metric we need to start using in our conversation
October 31st, 2006 at 11:52 amBut not in Tennessee. That State finds skin color to be very important as Corker has now opened up a big lead in Tennessee. That race had seen little movement in the last 6 weeks. Now in the last 6 days there is a big swing. That proves it is event driven and the only event of note was the racist RNC ad run on Corkers behalf. This is a pox on the house of Tennessee but it comes as no surprise.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061031/ap_on_el_se/tennessee_senate_poll_2
October 31st, 2006 at 11:54 amPLC, you are correct and I should of been more explicit...I was wrong...I have lot's of christian friend's and they are nothing like this traitorest bunch. This bunch of neo-cons are on a self made lieing christian beliefs for profit and power...Please accept my appolegy, often my fingers type quicker than my brain can think...May I add I embrace all faith's of my fellow man and try to learn and share my own thought's with out imposing.
RUCerious.....I live in Snohomish as well....Thank's for the tip's....Blessings
October 31st, 2006 at 11:56 amSorry RantingTommy, but I do not accept your premise, your definition, or your conclusion. I am very "grounded" in secular reality and my spirituality has absolutely no adverse effects on that. I also don't think it does any "earthly good" for you to dismiss those of us who are both spiritual and secularly progressive. This, too, is a reality. Are you grounded with that?
October 31st, 2006 at 11:58 am#37 Exley, Don't forget http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/27/mccain-escalation-2/
I have some "questions" for you.
IT IS OUR MESS. Withdraw our troops, call for UN peacekeeper force. I affair Bush.Co still want to control Iraqis oilfields?
October 31st, 2006 at 11:59 amWhat does "winning" this war even mean? Is there a finish line some where? A trophy? Is there a certain number of points we have to get to pass the high score?
In WWII it meant we destroyed german and japanese ability to wage war. They were war mongers and they wouldnt stop.
We are OCCUPYING Iraq and we still have not "won". We have killed Saddams children and capture Saddam himself and we still have not "won". We searched and searched for WMDs and it appears we are COMPLETELY safe from Iraqi WMDs... and yet we still have not "won".
What the hell is this "winning" that all of these republicans keep talking about? Do we get a cookie at the end?
Last I checked 911 was about terrorism. Terrorist have no capital and their leader sits freely in Pakistan and his supporters sit freely in Saudi Arabia. We are not even TRYING to convince muslims that extremist religion is bad because America does not want to call out its own religious extremists nor the Isreali religious extremists. And if the common man among the muslims does not believe that there is a better way then they are ALWAYS going to turn to terrorism to try to change their plight of the West bullying them around.
It appears to me that the way to "victory" is through the reeducation of the common muslim yet we are not even trying to talk to those that the muslims listen to and respect. We are not even trying to convince the muslims "authorities" of the virtues of seperation of church and state .. or at the very least seperation of church and murder.
It appears we are not even TRYING to "win" at all.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:01 pmSharon Cox
I have been around TP long enough and have read enough of your posts to understand you and to be confident that you are truly a tolerant person. There is no need for an apology from you to me, from my perspective. But, if it is important for you, then I certainly accept it. ...and Blessings to you as well.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:03 pmYangho, If a U.S. peacekeeper force could be sent to Iraq, I would say, "Please, go right ahead." Unfortunately, to date, the U.N. and much of the international community has not stepped up to the plate in Iraq and have abdicated their responsibilities to help the Iraqi people.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:05 pmImpeach Bush & Cheney
Bring the troops home
Charge the Big Oil companies to rebuild Iraq
Vote Democrat on November 7th!
BushCo = LIARS
October 31st, 2006 at 12:05 pmThank You! PLC...Blessings back at ya.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:16 pmThere are many other religious/spiritual people like me.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
We know that. One thing is religion, another one is faith. Im an atheist with a lot of faith...but not in any God. I have faith in you, me, and the whole humanity that we will get to a point where justice prevails and live in harmony with our surroundings. Now, about God...you can believe anything you want, but there is not a single proof about its existence or a spiritual world after this one. In fact the idea of God has been reduced as science advances. First, the thunder was Changoo the african god of the thunder, then it was discovered that it was an electric discharge...and so on. There is no God. There is your idea of God.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:17 pmHey you guys - I was being very sarcastic, from right here in Kitsap County, WA, where I've already mailed in my ballot!!
October 31st, 2006 at 12:22 pmthe U.N. and much of the international community has not stepped up to the plate in Iraq and have abdicated their responsibilities to help the Iraqi people.
Comment by Exley
Why would they? Your own president doesnt know why the hell your US forces are there in the first place. 9/11, WMD´s, Saddam is a mad man...etc.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:24 pm#51 - "Unfortunately, to date, the U.N. and much of the international community has not stepped up to the plate in Iraq and have abdicated their responsibilities to help the Iraqi people. "
So, you're saying that it's bad for them not to help us clean up the mess we've made of Iraq?
Why not talk about the major mess we made of Iraq to begin with rather than cry and moan about how other countries are not helping us clean up the country we broke?
October 31st, 2006 at 12:25 pmJuan C
"There is no God" is your idea of God, which can not be proven either. I am not here on TP to evangelize. In fact, I am more inclined to challenge what I call the "Christian Pharisees", the hypocrites and neocons who use religion. But, I really don't like progressives attacking faith, or religion, out of hand, either. If a progressive values tolerance and freedom to "believe what you want", then he or she should not attack a person's faith or religion in itself. Calling me or any other person "ungrounded in reality" solely on the basis of faith is a clear example of that. I can and will defend your right to your atheism. Can you defend my right to Christianity?
October 31st, 2006 at 12:26 pmBU$HCO= NAZI FASCIST WAR CRIMINALS
October 31st, 2006 at 12:26 pmIMPEACH PROSECUTE EXECUTE
Why should the world bail out war criminal american policies ?
The criminal USA policies caused all the death and destruction and that is who is responsible-YOU fools that believed an illegal government, seize the assets of the criminals in Washington and pay for actual real reconstruction not fake restitution. Oil + arms companies have made record profits off this illegal war,get them to pay,not your children's children. KARMA
#56, 57...Well guys, then you have to decide: Should the U.S. stay in Iraq or get out? You seem to be arguing both points.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:27 pmMe on me: excellent point. To turn the "Do you want to win?" talking point around, point out that only a change in government will cause a win.
Happy Guy: Ratings = Right? So Queer Eye for the Straight Guy represents your values because it's higher rated than, say, 7th Heaven?
October 31st, 2006 at 12:27 pmFaith: pretending to know something which is unknowable.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:28 pm#57, I would also add this, Democrat Soldier, Iraq was a mess way before we got there for a variety of reasons, including the fact that 1) Saddam ran that country into the ground, economically, politically, and socially before the war and 2) U.N. sanctions throughout the 1990s did damage to Iraq's economy. Are you saying the United Nations has no responsibility to a member state upon which the Security Council imposed economic sanctions for over a decade?
October 31st, 2006 at 12:30 pmBluedog49
OK, that works! I think I've reached my "preaching limit" for today.
I took advantage of Ohio's voting options and completed a paper early ballot, voting straight Democrat probably for the first time.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:32 pmPLC, I'm with you. I do not feel that Christian and secular-progressive need to be mutually exclusive. Just as being a Christian does not lead me to ignore science.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:36 pmCan you defend my right to Christianity?
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
As long as you define what that means...if that means to burn people who think like Galileo, I would not defend that. If you mean those guys who came to America and evangelized natives with the cross and the sword, then I wont. If you mean your idea of believing in some superior entithy, any time.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:39 pmJuan C
Then, I thank you for your support.
Now, let's all together work, argue, vote, hope, and (yes, if you're inclined) pray for a more progressive U.S. Congress on November 8 and put the pressure on those who would try to stop that outcome from being realized.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:46 pm#60 - Now you're claiming I'm vacillating when I’ve always held that we HAVE to fix our screw-up’s if we’re ever to regain our reputation as a country.
Sending more American troops would be like throwing more lives on the fire because we have no other plan. Pulling out would be like saying “Well, we’ve screwed the country more than any person has ever screwed any country in the history of mankind, so we’re outa here!â€
We need true international support, not just a smattering of forces from the “coalition of the billing.†We also need a REAL plan, not just “stay the course†and “terra! Terra-wrists are a-cummin!†When VPres. Cheney opened Iraq to war profiteers, he sold his sold to the Devil (again) and sold out the American people to the highest bidder.
First – get international buy-in and open the country to investment by companies other than VPres. Cheney’s special list of donors. (You know in your heart that’s what he did, don’t try to deny the truth.) When other nations have an investment in the process, then the Iraqi economy can begin to recover from the sanctions we imposed and the war we gave them. Part of this is that all American companies currently doing business in Iraq have 3 months to get the heck out. We’ve been profiteering from this war long enough.
Second – Get a TRUE international peacekeeping force to move in so we can ship some of our troops back to our first war (Afghanistan) and stop the Taliban from taking over, AGAIN! When we ran out on Afghanistan the second time (the first being in the 80’s) we showed that we are nothing but failures on the international scene.
Third – Reinstate the Iraqi military that we disbanded when we took over. This was a major mistake, and a Presidential failure of titanic proportions. Start a re-training program where the military officers are re-trained outside of the country, and the enlisted troops are trained by an international cadre. As the battalions, brigades and divisions stand up, we stand down.
By the way, nice revisionist history. During the 80’s, when Iraq was our good buds and we sold them WMD’s, their economy was doing quite well under Hussein. It wasn’t until we imposed economic sanctions against them that their economy started to flounder.
I guess what you’re saying is that because we impose economic sanctions against Cuba that we should be just as responsible for any problems they have if another country invades them.
October 31st, 2006 at 1:09 pmExley is right. When Saddam was the republicans' buddy, he had lots of money. Then he stopped being a good puppet for the republicans, so they made him pay for it.
October 31st, 2006 at 1:19 pm#68 I wasn't accusing you of vacillating. I was unaware of your previous statements on this topic and was asking you your opinion. Now I know it. Thank you.
(I will disagree with you on one matter though...The United States did not sell WMDs to Iraq in the 1980s. That is a myth).
October 31st, 2006 at 1:35 pm#51 I realize you're still avoiding my points in http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/29/murtha-iraq-military/#comments
In fact, Bush Co. don't want UN or anyone stepped up to the plate - It is oil and rebuild contracts. I believe the insurgents will lose their will when UN troops replace for our boys. This is give Iraqis government a chance to carry out national conciliation.
October 31st, 2006 at 1:38 pmSo...69% percent want to "embolden the terrorists," eh?
Why does nearly 7 out of 10 Americans hate America??!!
October 31st, 2006 at 1:43 pmOctober 31st, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Sorry, PLC, I can't trust the opinions or ideas of anyone that thinks a god exists.
Not saying you would always be wrong, quite the opposite, I would just always be compelled to verify because "spirituality" (a euphemism for insanity) is fantasy, and believers in fantasy must be taken with a heavy dose of sodium.
I will tolerate, even fight for your right to have your insane beliefs. I will NOT respect them, no more than you respect my belief that your beliefs are bullshit.
October 31st, 2006 at 1:59 pmI can’t trust the opinions or ideas of anyone that thinks a god exists.
Comment by RantingTommy
So, my ideas, opinions, or facts about a secular issue, given without a spiritual basis, are automatically discounted by you. That does not seem to be a very rational, reasoned, science-based approach to issues, in my opinion. But, rant on if you'd like. I'll just skip over your posts because they all seem to be focused on the "religion is insanity" theme only.
October 31st, 2006 at 2:22 pm#70 - "I will disagree with you on one matter though…The United States did not sell WMDs to Iraq in the 1980s. That is a myth"
I hate to break it to you, but it's not a myth. It's fact.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/31/world/main534798.shtml
"Congressional investigations after the Gulf War revealed that the Commerce Department had licensed sales of biological agents, including anthrax, and insecticides, which could be used in chemical weapons, to Iraq.
When Iraq used chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1987, there was anger in Congress and the White House. But a memo in 1988 from Assistant Secretary of State Richard W. Murphy stated that "The U.S.-Iraqi relationship is … important to our long-term political and economic objectives.""
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2002/03/27/1195471.php
"According to a 1994 Senate report, private American suppliers, licensed by the U.S. Department of Commerce, exported a witch's brew of biological and chemical materials to Iraq from 1985 through 1989. Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing death, were:
* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.
* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.
* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.
Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human and bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents. "These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction," the Senate report stated. "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the Iraqi biological warfare program." "
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r107:S17DE1-0011:
"According to a 1994 Senate report, private American suppliers, licensed by the U.S. Department of Commerce, exported biological and chemical materials to Iraq from 1985 through 1989. Newsday reported that one American company alone made 70 shipments of the anthrax-causing germs and other pathogenic agents to Iraq in the 1980s. "
Can you show any proof that these reports are myths?
October 31st, 2006 at 2:25 pmAnyone hear John Kerry's remarks about U.S. troop in typical crap form?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15499174/
Then he said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.â€
No wonder vets don't like him and never have
October 31st, 2006 at 2:29 pm#76 Democrat Soldier...No one disputes that the U.S. and Europe and Japan sold dual-use materials to Iraq in the 1980s that could have been and, as it turned out, used to create WMDs. That was clearly a mistake, given the use to which Saddam ultimately put those dual-use materials. However, to say that the U.S. gave Saddam WMDs is misleading, at best. You make it sound as if the U.S. was sending over artillery shells and bombs loaded with chemical and biological agents ready for immediate use. As even your own articles show, that was not the case at all.
October 31st, 2006 at 2:52 pmTracy, You must be republican because you're misrepresenting Kerry's comments. The article in on-line at CNN.com, try reading it.
October 31st, 2006 at 2:53 pmTracy and all reich wingers, listen to the latest on CNN about the most recent Kerry response.....Get informed, get educated and stay off the kool aid it rot's more than you're teeth.....Sending lot's of Blessings, you need them...Oh and no the troop's don't hate Kerry....
October 31st, 2006 at 2:56 pmWOW,
Now I know why you hate me and the rest of our Soldiers so much. You think we are all uneducated morons. At least your Kerry thinks so. He said that you either get educated or if you fail, you end up serving in the military. If that is what you think, it is no wonder you don't like our military. You think we are all just the crap that couldn't make it in society. At least now I know what your truly feelings are for me and the rest of the arms forces. You guys are sad voting and sticking up for someone like kerry.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:06 pm#77..Yes, Tracy, We all heard Kerry's disgusting remarks insulting our troops. And we are all dismayed. Sen. McCain and others have called on Kerry to apologize. We shall see if Kerry have enough decency to do so.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:06 pmSenator Kerry owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education. Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere.
They all deserve our respect and deepest gratitude for their service. The suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night. Without them, we wouldn't live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks.
Sen. John McCain
October 31st, 2006 at 3:07 pmWrote Exley: we could get out of the way and let the Iraqis “fix itâ€. I agree…This is mostly their mess and they need to clean it up.
You have got to be kidding, right? "This is mostly their mess". This is the United States' mess. We went and attacked a sovereign nation "unprovoked", you moron. What part of this do you not understand?
October 31st, 2006 at 3:08 pmHey Exley, you continue avoid me, don't you?
October 31st, 2006 at 3:12 pmActually, Yangho, I answered you back in posting #51. Okay, sparky?
October 31st, 2006 at 3:13 pmShit, I thought Kerry was talking about Bush!
October 31st, 2006 at 3:19 pm#86: And I debated in #71 #73. You always throw your opinions, then you run away when ppl give facts to oppose, don't you?
October 31st, 2006 at 3:24 pmIn fact, after perusing Kerry's comments again, I'm sure he was talking about Bush.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:26 pmHe often uses this same line in campaign remarks.
His gist is, while you are in college, get a damn education and learn something. Don't waste your college years being a fart joke frat boy cheerleader.
Or you might wind up not having enough smarts to avoid getting the f*cking country into a mess like Iraq.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/kerry-wake-up-and-de_b_32912.html
Roger_Roger,
October 31st, 2006 at 3:27 pmThe volunteer military is just a another job, get over it. As with most military interventions dating back to Ceasar's Romans, the military is mearly a pon for the King's games. Reality sucks right?
Yangho, I addressed the substance of your posting #73 in my posting #78.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:31 pmTry and keep up.
RUCerious...Kerry is in fact now claiming that his insulting of our troops was a "botched joke" about the president. Even assuming that somewhat hard-to-believe explanation is true, he needs to apologize to our troops.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:32 pm#94
He needs to resign ASAP. No one in government should belittle me and the rest of the troops like that. How can our leaders take the military so lightly. The Dem leaders need to come out and ask for his resignation ASAP. How anyone could vote for a Dem knowing Kerry would get more power is beyond me. Does anyone really want someone in power who thinks so little of our armed forces?
October 31st, 2006 at 3:37 pmExley, he uses this same joke in every litany of Bush mistakes he campaigns on.
If it was taken out of context, he should apologize, but if you look at the last 10 or so speeches he's made, it comes out like
"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
Which I totally agree with.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:37 pmExley, when is Bush going to apologize to each member of the nearly 3,000 families whose loved ones have been killed in the war that he lied us into??
October 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pmRoger, you are a moron. Look at the link I posted at #90 and tell me this wasn't a botched version of that line.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:39 pm#95 Does anyone really want someone in power who thinks so little of our armed forces?
No....And that is why Kerry was defeated by George W. Bush in 2004. Kerry's insulting of the troops is the Dems worst nightmare as we come down the strtech to Election Day. It knocks them off message for the day, reminds voters of John Kerry, and reminds voters of why they do not trust the Democrats with national security matters....Kerry has really done it to his prty again. I bet the Dems wish Kerry would just quietly go away. He is a disaster for them.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:42 pmNo one in government should belittle me and the rest of the troops like that.
Comment by Roger_Roger — October 31, 2006 @ 3:37 pm
I'm sorry roger deux, I did not know you served in Iraq. How long was your deployment? Where at? How many tours of duty? Are you re-enlisting?
Oh, btw, your quote of no one in government should belittle the troops, I agree. So all those who voted to reduce medical benefits for the military, you have angered Roger here. And to those who voted to cut costs on body armour and other required military defense, Iraqi war veteran Roger is pissed!
October 31st, 2006 at 3:43 pm#93 It's 1 of my 2 points and it's OK for me that you admit the facts partly.
Actually, US acknowledged about dual-use materials allow Saddam build WMDs (posion gas). The reason was "In June, 1982, President Reagan decided that the United States could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran. President Reagan decided that the United States would do whatever was necessary and legal to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran".
You avoid the fact that US supported for Saddam used these WMD against Iranian.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:46 pmExley, au contraire, I hope Kerry apologizes to any who were offended, then keeps up the mocking of the chimp in chief and stays on message about the utter freakin disaster this administration is, was, and will be for the next two years and three months. (or sooner...)
October 31st, 2006 at 3:46 pmRUCerious,
October 31st, 2006 at 3:48 pmthis does seem to be taken out of context (which doesn't surprise me), and it appears to be a joke on Bush, not the troops
That said, I'll refrain from commenting until I hear the entire speech (in full context) before jumping to any foregone conclusions!
Ulike Happy Dude on an above thread
#102, RUCerious...I have no problem with Kerry going around criticizing Bush and the GOP. I don't agree with what he is saying, but that's politics. I understand that. But you and I agree that even if Kerry just mangled a bad joke, he should apologize for offending our troops.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:51 pmaddendum to post 103,
October 31st, 2006 at 3:52 pmlet me make this perfectly clear, if he did say that only the lowly, uneducated serve in our military, then he does, indeed, owe an apology
#101, Actually, Yangho, you are incorrect:
Department of State Cable from George P. Shultz to the United States Interests Section in Iraq. "U.S. Chemical Shipment to Iraq," March 4, 1984.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:56 pmIndicates that a shipment of 22,000 pounds of phosphorous fluoride to Iraq was held back at JFK airport because of "concern over Iraq's possible intention to use the chemical in the manufacture of chemical weapons." Washington asks the U.S. interests section in Baghdad to remind Iraq's Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the U.S.'s grave concern about chemical weapons, and to inform it that the U.S. will publicly condemn their use in the near future. The interests section is to reiterate the request that Iraq not use chemical warfare, and to say that the U.S. opposes Iraq's attempts to acquire chemical weapons related material from the U.S.: "When we become aware of attempts to do so, we will act to prevent their export to Iraq."
#101 Moreover, Yangho, The U.S. did indeed condemn Iraq's use of chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s:
United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Eagleton, Jr. to the Department of State. "Iraq Reacts Angrily to U.S. Condemnation of CW [Chemical Weapons] Use," March 7, 1984.
Reports that Iraq's defense minister denounced the State Department's condemnation of Iraq's chemical weapons use. The U.S. interests section comments that "The Iraqis apparently have been stunned by our public condemnation."
October 31st, 2006 at 3:59 pm#95 - "Does anyone really want someone in power who thinks so little of our armed forces? "
Yeah, we should, really get rid of Pres. Bush who seems to think our troops are nothing but "commas" when it comes to their deaths in Iraq.
October 31st, 2006 at 4:01 pm#107: Why you not post the following facts, Exley?
October 31st, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Yangho, Because the additional information you sent along is irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is whether the U.S. provided WMDs to Iraq in the 1980s. As these primary documents show, not only did the U.S. NOT provide Iraq with WMDs, the U.S. stopped certain exports to Iraq because of concerns that they could be used as WMD precursors, and that the U.S. publicly condemned Ira's use of chemical weapons in the 1980s.
October 31st, 2006 at 4:15 pm#112 The front pages of CNN.com, ABCNews.com, CBSNews.com all have the Kerry gaffe as the main story....Bad news for the Dems...This story is not going away for a while.
October 31st, 2006 at 4:23 pmJohn Kerry has a meltdown:
"I apologize to no one:
Keep talking, John....Please keep talking!!!!
October 31st, 2006 at 4:29 pmexley, I think you may have taken that one out of context. this from cnn.com:
Kerry, who is not up for re-election this year, fired back at the White House and the GOP, saying he was not disparaging U.S. soldiers.
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy," he said. "No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut-and-run policy in Afghanistan and a stand-still-and-lose strategy in Iraq."
October 31st, 2006 at 4:33 pm#113 - "This story is not going away for a while."
Sort of like "Macaca"?
How about "I never said stay the course!"
Speaker Pelosi, save us from Republican excesses!
October 31st, 2006 at 4:34 pm#111 Why not? The fact is US govt only reacted against Iraq's WMD in response to intelligence and media reports. And the reaction was so weak: claim Iran and didn't concern about punish Saddam!? US govt even didn't any change in our position in relationship with Saddam.
Indeed, US govt NOT OFFICIALLY provide Iraq with WMDs. But
One more, you compare the US reaction about Iraq true WMD in 1980 and fantastic WMD in 2003. Is it a double-standard?
October 31st, 2006 at 4:36 pmTo continue believing what the reich wing spin masters have to say to Kerry is rediculious....First of all he served our country and has continued to serve for the military in his votes. He explained the statement. The reich wing want to beat to death any little slip of a joke so they don't have to answer to the public or the troops for the loss of 2,800 troops on a made up war..All the corruption in their administration and distroying our constitution along with selling off our country and ignoring the Katrina victom's. The biggest lie of course is the 9/11 debacle by neglect or design.
The administration in power have never served any one but them selves and are doing everything to distroy our country. None of these people have ever served and bull shit bush himself was AWOL. Still is. If the reich wingers that viset this site want to continue with their lies and dribble, so be it...Eventuly it will be their loss and the countries gain when they loose...Blessings
October 31st, 2006 at 4:42 pmUh oh...Now the American Legion is calling on Kerry apologize. This is bad news to for the Dems!
American Legion to Sen. Kerry: Apologize Now
Oct 31 8:49 AM US/Eastern
The American Legion called on Sen. John Kerry to apologize for suggesting that American troops in Iraq are uneducated.
October 31st, 2006 at 4:46 pm"As a constituent of Senator Kerry's I am disappointed. As leader of The American Legion, I am outraged," said National Commander Paul A. Morin. "A generation ago, Sen. Kerry slandered his comrades in Vietnam by saying that they were rapists and murderers. It wasn't true then and his warped view of today's heroes isn't true now."
While addressing a group of college students at a campaign rally in Pasadena, CA., Monday, Kerry suggested that they receive an education or "if you don't, you'll get stuck in Iraq."
Exley..(_?_)
October 31st, 2006 at 4:51 pm#122 Exley..(_?_)
Yes, Ms. Cox???
October 31st, 2006 at 4:53 pm" I LIE BIG BUTZ AND I CAN NOT LIE..."
sorry, couldn't resist?
October 31st, 2006 at 4:58 pmLIKE...dammit...LIKE
October 31st, 2006 at 4:59 pmPretty stupid to try to bury someone for what they said and admitted is a mistaken joke oposed to the people in charge that have caused the death's of HUNDRED'S OF THOUSAND'S OF PEOPLE HERE AND OVER THERE FOR THEIR OWN POWER AND CONTROL.....I send you Blessing's you realy need them.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:01 pmSecond veterans' group calls on Kerry to apologize....This political disaster for the Dems continues to snowball:
AMVETS' National Commander expressed disbelief and disappointment in the comments by Senator John Kerry Monday.
“For the Senator to suggest that today’s United States military is made up of uneducated men and women who didn’t ‘study hard’ or ‘make an effort to be smart’ is ridiculous and appalling,†AMVETS National Commander Thomas C. McGriff said Tuesday. “The men and women in uniform today make up the most advanced, highly-educated force ever seen. To suggest otherwise is a slap in the face to every soldier, sailor, airman, Marine and Coast Guardsman who has spent countless hours working to better him or herself. This is also an insult to every person and organization who has worked tirelessly to provide our troops and their families with education benefits.
“Senator Kerry should retract his remarks and apologize immediately,†McGriff said after listening to comments made by Senator Kerry at a political rally in Pasadena, Calif., Monday. “It is especially outrageous coming from a member of the U.S. Senate.â€
October 31st, 2006 at 5:01 pm#128....Sharon Cox, I am not trying to bury Kerry. I am simply passing along information that America's veterans (American Legion, AMVETS, Sen. McCain) are all calling on Kerry to apologize for his insulting comments directed at our soldiers currently serving in Iraq. As I said, even if one were to believe Kerry's credulity-straining explanation, he still needs to apologize. So far, however, it appears Kerry's legendary arrogance is preventing him from doing the decent and honorable thing. And the longer he refuses to apologize for insulting our troops, the longer the story will go on and hurt the Dems.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:08 pmSince Senator Kerry is not here to respone I will respond for him and I to you Exley.....(_x_)......I still send Blessings
October 31st, 2006 at 5:11 pmI appreciate the blessings, Ms. Cox. I'll take them whenever I can get them.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:13 pm“It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who’ve never worn the uniform of our country ..."
Wow...John McCain did not wear the uniform of his country???? That is quite a scoop, Senator Kerry!
Poor Kerry...He doesn't know that when one is in a hole, one should stop digging.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:15 pmThe Bob Corker campaign is teh first of what will be many campaigns that willhang Kerry around the neck of Democratic candidates:
The Corker for Senate campaign today called on Washington Congressman Harold Ford to either defend or denounce U.S. Senator John Kerry’s comment denigrating U.S. troops considering the fact he served as a National Co-Chair for the Massachusetts liberal’s 2004 presidential campaign, and because Ford just took $900,000 from the Democrat campaign committees – courtesy of a transfer from Kerry and his colleague, Senator Ted Kennedy.
“Bob Corker rejects John Kerry’s outrageous comments belittling the intelligence of our troops in Iraq, and Harold Ford’s silence on this matter leaves one to conclude he’s siding with Kerry,†charged Todd Womack, the Corker campaign Communications Director. “As one of Kerry’s strongest supporters in 2004, and having just taken Kerry’s campaign money to prop up his faltering candidacy, he has an obligation to speak out.â€
Kerry's display of ineptitude and elitism could not have come at the worse time for Democrats.
The lights will be buring long into the night at DNC HQ as they try to figure out how to contain the damage from this disastrous comment by their failed presidential nominee.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:24 pmNice try Exley, you keep on avoiding me.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:28 pmYangho...You said nothing new in your last posting. I have already explained to you that the U.S. and other Western nations transferred dual-use technology to Iraq in the 1980s. Your Donald Riegle quote merely reiterates what I have already told you.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:35 pmEx and Rog,
People are tired of this crap, and want something to change.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:39 pm#145: The question here is US's weak reactions and broadly providing the so-called dual-use technology for Iraq in 1980.
Donald Riegle made a clear question about US govt's intend :
And I also have the question about the double-standard.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:44 pmYou're avoiding that 2 questions, Exley.
#150 Yangho, we have already covered the dual-use issue ... As for the supposed "double standard," there is none....The world was quite a different place in the 1980s and the early 21st century. In the early 1980s, radical Islamic fundamentalist international terrorism was just beginning to take shape. The suicide bombing of US Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983 was among the first wide-scale suicide bombings causing mass casualties. Such attacks continued throughout the 1980s, 1990s, culminating in the atrocity of 9/11. It was the rise of this type of nihilistic mass-casualty terrorism that dictated that Saddam Hussein, who by 2003, now had a 20-year old record of cultivating and using WMDs and supporting terrorism thst prompted the decision that in a post-9/11 world, Saddam Hussein could not be allowed to stay in power.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:04 pm#154 - Oh what different between the fact Saddam really using poison gas against Iranian troop and Kurdish and the US's claim Saddam give WMD for terrorists? With more than 100,000 Iranian & 7,000 Kurdish victims for Iraq WMD, US govt did nearly nothing. I only say it is a double-standard.
I glad you repeat your point about "radical Islamic fundamentalist international terrorism". Could we discuss about those CIA-supported terrorists? Is it a myth?
October 31st, 2006 at 6:24 pm#156 Sure, Yangoho...Let's discuss....Yes, it is a myth that the CIA supported radical fundamentalist Arab terrorists. I assume you are referring to CIA assitance to the the indigenous Afghan resistance to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s. Yes, the U.S. did indeed provide assistance to indigenous Afghan rebels. However, the CIA provided little or no assitance to the foreign Arab fighters who came to Afghanistan in the the 1980s to fight the Soviets. This is documented in the 9/11 Commission Report. Moreover, Peter Bergen -- the world foremost journalistic expert on Al Qaeda -- reported in his book "Holy War Inc." that the idea that the CIA worked with, trained, or directly funded Bin Laden is false.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:37 pm#157 Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski:
The main reason CIA supported extreme Islamics was to counter against atheistic communists. Enemy's Enemy is a fiend? No they're still our enemy. After Soviet collapse, the extreme Islamic fighters find next target. The fact is CIA did use extreme Islamics for collapse Soviet, and they might or might not acknowledge that their own beast will bite back. But they didn't regret about that.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:59 pmThat's the fact - I won't debate it is right or wrong.
#158 Sorry I want to say I won't debate it is right or wrong choice. My point is "radical Islamic fundamentalist international terrorism" is CIA own beast.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:04 pmOh, look; it's fairy tale time with Exley!
Tonight, he's spinning a grand tale of "realpolitic," spun from the finest think-tanks money can buy. Too bad reality intrudes so often upon his carefully crafted yarns.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:06 pm#160 Barfly, Read the 9/11 Commission Report and "Holy War, Inc." and then get back me, okay, sport?
Gotta go. Gonna be a barfly myself tonight.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:14 pm#161 Don't avoid my point Exley, I never say CIA directlyfunded Bin Laden.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:31 pmOk, I have enough fun with Exley today. Go for Halloween.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:44 pmReply to #138: As usual stupid Republicans take half truths and run with them. Sen. kerry was actually referring to President Bush's intelligence when he said, if you don't study you get bogged down in Iraq. But don't except Republicans to admit he was talking about Bush. And the fact of the matter is that Democrats don't have to explain what kerry said or didn't say.
How about Republicans demanding that the President stop playing politics with 9-11 and the mess he'd gotten up into in Iraq. How about him and Cheney apoligizing for being cowards during Viet Nam and for Bush's girls not serving their country in a time of war. Now explain those things, explain why it's ok for other people's children to die in Iraq, but Bush's daughters are too precious to die for the Country which gave them everything they have in life.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:57 pm#167 - Hendley sb Hendler.
October 31st, 2006 at 8:47 pmWasn't me, Walt.
October 31st, 2006 at 9:21 pmThe Bushco mission in Iraq has been to steel from the Iraqi People. They used America's power to do that. Bushco's mission is almost a complete success. They just need a little longer and Bushco will own what the Iraqi's did just a few years ago.
America will be the poorer for having financed and fought to make Bushco richer. Bushco is not American it is a world dominating plutocracy. Bushco effect on America is the outsourcing of freedom and justice.
October 31st, 2006 at 9:57 pmdoug, I'll agree with you, but you must invest in a better syntax checker.
November 1st, 2006 at 12:47 amExley, It is well documented that the CIA funneled suppport through Pakistan to the Taliban in Afghanistan when the Soviet Unoin was trying to make Afghanistan a Soviet state.
#79
Why should I read an article trying to spin and cover for Kerry when I head the audio?
November 1st, 2006 at 1:24 pmOK. here is how those poll numbers dont way what many of you claim it says. You are reading your own personal views into the results.
first. I would probably be part of the 62% and the 69%, yet I support the war.
November 1st, 2006 at 2:18 pmIts misleading how they are presenting the info. but, hey according to many of you only Fox News is biased.
Ass Tight Ass Ass Worship
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
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March 18th, 2008 at 4:44 amIngram
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